February 3, 2025 • 51 mins
This episode explores habit stacking and its potential to enhance productivity and life satisfaction. By combining intentional habits with daily routines, listeners are encouraged to reflect on their values, career aspirations, and the practicality of multitasking while evaluating their long-term goals.
• Discuss personal fatigue and its impact on productivity
• Explain the concept of habit stacking and its applications
• Question the effectiveness of multitasking in daily routines
• Evaluate the sacrifices needed to achieve career dreams
• Encourage community involvement in the podcast’s book project
• Emphasize the importance of self-reflection in career choices
• Discuss the role of culture, autonomy, challenge, and compensation (CAC) in job fulfillment
Discover how technology is reshaping our lives and livelihoods.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
don't you act, don't you do this you're doing, you're
squirreling me.
Sometimes I squirrel you,you're squirreling me you got
something to say welcome back tothe podcast giving an email.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I'm bruce, got him, got him and I'm out.
Yeah, you are just.
I just destroyed clark.
I just destroyed him in realtime.
That's what you just saw happenhere.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Got him how you doing clark, I'm, I'm alive, you see
how I look right now uh-huh yeah, you look like a hacker.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Clark has a white hoodie a white gray hoodie on.
For some reason, it's 77degrees outside.
Why are you mush?
What's going on?
Speaker 1 (00:51):
I'm mush, I don't know what it is.
I don't know what it is aboutthis week.
Maybe it's something to do withthe warm weather.
Yeah, maybe I'm just more tired.
I didn't do anything different.
I get more tired in the cold,do you?
My diet's the same, I'm justmore tired.
I didn't do anything different.
I get more tired in the cold,do you?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
My diet's the same.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
I'm exercising the same amount, Same schedule
Nothing's really new.
But I just feel exhausted forsome reason.
Maybe it is the change ofweather, Maybe because we went
from cold to hot.
What do you think?
You know?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
tuberculosis is back.
Maybe you got TB.
Yeah, oh no.
Yeah, I think you got that.
Yep, that's how it starts.
Sound like it?
Yeah, I think you got it.
I think you got it.
Man, you're in the right state,though.
You're in the state where theyused to send all the TB patients
, so you'll survive, don't worry.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Well, that's good news.
How are you?
Yeah, have you gotten over yoursickness?
Are you healthy?
Yes, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
No, the antibiotics, they didn't just work, they like
cured up some other stuff I wasdealing with too, which is nice
, so I'm better than good, I'mgreat.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
I'm great you actually said that.
You said that on the lastepisode that you think the
antibiotics might help clearother stuff.
That's good to hear yeah, theydid.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
It definitely did, because I was having some
trouble with my ears and it'sjust gone now.
So, nice, good, yeah, it'sawesome you do look like yeah,
I'm sitting down.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
You're standing up.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
That just tells me all I need to know I mean, my
feet even hurt and I'm standingup.
I put so check this out, youwant to.
You want a pro-life tip?
Corporate strategist.
I bought some slippers slippershoe type indoor shoes and put
in my orthotics.
So now, all day, when I'mstanding, I'm helping rebuild
(02:38):
the arches in my feet.
It's not comfortable, but I amtaking care of a physical
ailment as I'm standing hereworking.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Wow, that's actually that is a thousand IQ.
Move right there.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Sometimes I got it, sometimes I don't.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Look at you.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Sometimes I'm a zero IQ individual, so it just
depends on the day.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Have you heard about the concept of habit stacking?
Speaker 2 (03:06):
No, have you heard about the concept of habit
stacking?
No, that sounds.
That sounds like something I'mgoing to roll my eyes at.
But go ahead, Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Put it out there this is not sponsored by David Allen
.
This is.
I don't even know where thisoriginates.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Habit stacking is where you start with a habit and
then you build something microon top of it.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
You started with a habit and then you build
something micro on top of it.
You started with a habitstanding up.
Then you added another habit ofusing your, your shoes or your
orth.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Orthotics is that what you call them orthotic
inserts.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Yeah, yeah you.
Then you added those to it.
And now your habit stacking.
You're standing and you'rehelping correct your arches in
your soles.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Now you're habit stacking, you're standing and
you're helping correct yourarches and your soles.
Can I just do?
We have to name everything.
Do we have to give everything aself-help name?
Oh, I'm habit stacking.
Oh I'm micro dosing.
Oh I'm I'm min maxing my, mycarboholic intake.
Don't worry guys, I'm going togo do a power set of 20 today so
(04:05):
I can load stack my quadriceps.
When does it stop?
When do we just start speakingregularly to each other?
Oh yeah, bro, Get that habitstack on.
Trust me, You're really goingto feel good once you start
habit stacking.
Just go takezempic and get itover with like this is not
(04:28):
medical advice just just go getozempic and enjoy your life like
that is hilarious.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Um, yeah, I think the brain works better when you
have these small little words,something you know.
It's funny because I'm curiouson your thoughts.
I think the brain works betterwhen you have these small little
words, something you know.
It's funny because I'm curiouson your thoughts.
I think a lot of people justdon't think like this, like.
(04:59):
That's why I think it's helpful, because, like you yeah, you're
sick of it because you probablyhear this all the time, but I'd
say you're in the upper echelonof the average human being.
Thanks buddy.
Not just because you're a whitemale born in America.
That helps.
That helps with it.
Yeah, that situation that helps, I think, in what you do, in
(05:20):
knowledge work, like you kind ofjust get these things.
You're like I don't need tothink about doing these, these
things, I just do them becauseit's good for me.
I don't think a lot of peoplelike have the time or mental
capacity to do it.
So when something comes up andthey're like have it stacking,
it's like two words, it's likethat's genius, why don't I?
When I'm going to the bathroomI'm also, you know, hosting
(05:41):
learning to a lingo yeah, yeah,or learning lingo, exactly.
It's like a lot of people don'treally think about that, but
it's like you can probably dothat Habit stacking.
I mean, okay, see what I do.
I go on the treadmill at theend of my workouts to get some
cardio in, and it usually endsin like a slow walk, and at that
(06:01):
point I actually pull up mylaptop and sometimes I crank
through mindless email.
I in like a slow walk and atthat point I actually pull up my
laptop and sometimes I crankthrough mindless email.
I'm like I don't need to payattention to any of the slot
that I'm looking at right now.
Let me crank out a hundredemails and I literally do it.
I'm habit stack.
I'm doing cardio and I'mdealing with stuff that doesn't
require a lot of thinking.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
See, but even even that term habit stacking, like
habits, I I well, I guess thereare bad habits, right, but like
a good habit, like that, just Idon't know, I I don't like the
email on a treadmill like,firstly, our lives are a
treadmill.
Don't do email on the treadmill, don't do that clark.
(06:38):
Just watch an anime.
Go watch an anime on thetreadmill.
I could like that.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Go read trade-offs, read a book read something
you've never read on thetreadmill go read, read a book,
read something you've never readbefore don't go read email.
You know I habit stack reading.
I'm going to start doing that.
I'm going to do this wholeepisode with habit stack.
I habit stack reading where Isit outside in the sun and I
read so I get vitamin D and I'mreading at the same time and I
(07:06):
love the outdoors so it helpsreset my brain.
Habit stacking.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
I am not sorry for squirreling you in the beginning
.
You deserve to be squirreledafter the things you've just
admitted into the microphone.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
What else do we habit stack?
What else do you habit stack?
Speaker 2 (07:27):
I don't, I don't, I don't really like multitasking
because I can't focus well whenI do.
Yeah, for for me I mean, yeah,you know, like wearing orthotics
and standing and working,that's, that's nothing.
But you know, I can't watch avideo and play a game at the
same time, I just can't One.
I think it's disrespectful tothe art I'm engaging with.
(07:49):
So, like, if I'm watching amovie, I'm not on a phone, right
, like I'm watching a movie, I'mnot on my phone, but that's the
way it is.
Okay, I mean, think back to theolden times when a book was the
best thing you could ever havein your home.
Like you sit down by candlelightand you read your book because
(08:10):
it's a privilege to be able toread and to consume the word and
think about what's written, andyou might read that book 60
times because that might be oneof the 10 books you have for the
rest of your life, but you giveit the attention it deserves.
And now it's like, yeah, Imight do a little bit of you
know, I'm gonna eat my cheesenips while I'm watching, you
know, the catch up of 90 DayFiance, all while Instagramming
(08:34):
my life about how privileged Iam to sit on my $4,000 couch.
And while I'm doing that, I'malso having my toes manicured by
the manicure bot 5,000.
It's like, at what point do yourealize that you're just,
you're everything, and by beingeverything, you're nothing Like?
When does that sit in?
When do you realize like you'renot enjoying anything anymore
(08:54):
and like you cannot sit down andjust have a moment with a piece
of content and consume thatcontent and let it waft over
your brain?
When does that happen?
When do you?
Speaker 1 (09:04):
realize.
This is where you've got it allwrong.
You don't habit stack thingsthat require all this attention.
You can't habit stack thosethings.
It makes no sense if you habitstack something mindless with
something that requires yourmind.
Let's say you're doing an artform.
You're like I really need toimprove my grip email is not
mindless though.
Yeah, you'd See, this is whereyou're not in big corp anymore.
(09:26):
Email, for the most part 95% ispretty freaking mindless, Like
I can give answers to emails.
Did you just filter that crap?
I do, but most of it, you know,does get filtered, and then a
lot of it.
I just need to reply to withlike three words and be like
don't do that.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Thanks.
Do we ever talk about my twoline methodology?
No, here's a, here's a.
This is not a habit stack, thisis just a pro-life tip for
anyone in work.
There's a.
This is Bruce's two linemethodology.
If your name is in the two line, you look at the email.
If it is not, archive it.
If you get another one about it, archive it.
If you get a third one, thenyou can respond to it.
But I guarantee you if yourname is not in the two line,
(10:06):
it's not your problem andsomeone else will respond and
handle it.
If your name's like hey, rightnow I'm looking at an email
Name's not in the two line, I'mgoing to archive that email.
Right after this it's gone.
Not even going to read it, noteven going to engage with it,
and it's probably important itin the Bruce Tulane methodology.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
In Big Corp, I get that.
In a startup, I don't get that.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
I mean, my name is almost always in the Tulane at
startup, so you know I can'treally do that here.
But when I was at Big Corp, bro, you better believe Bruce's
Tulane methodology all day,every day.
I did not engage with emailthat much because of it.
Fair enough, If it's important,it'll come back.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
That's a really good point.
It's just like the out ofoffice thing we talked about.
But go back to the habitstacking thing.
I know you want to get off thestock, but I don't.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
I combine something mindless with something mindful.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
So I was going to the example of like you could
combine.
Let's say you want to improveyour grip strength when you're
watching the movie you can justbe squeezing a little grip
strength thing okay, mindlesswith mindful.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
When you're driving, do you listen to podcasts?
Same idea is it?
Driving is not a habit yeah,but it's dead time.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
You got to do it and then you're stacking something
of your learning.
That's's not habit stackingFair enough.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Doing something mindless, I mean Right.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
You combine the activities bathroom, duolingo.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Orthotics standing, like that's habit stacking,
because it's two positive thingsyou're now putting, it's two
good habits you're puttingtogether.
Listening to things in the caris not a habit.
Stack, my friend.
Chain smoking that's what yourvent says from running off the
road into a ditch willfullyChain smoking binge, drinking
(11:52):
habit stacking.
That's bad habit stacking.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
I never said it had to be good.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
No, I mean, this is so stupid.
Why do we do this?
Why do human do this?
Why do human beings feel theneed to min-max everything?
I mean, have you, I dare, Idare go into this?
Have you seen what's going onwith Elon Musk in video games?
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Oh no, I don't want to go here.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
No, I have not, mr.
Ketamine Elmo.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Wait, wait, wait.
I did hear a little bit thisthing.
Okay, I don't want to go here.
No, I did not Wait, wait, wait.
I did hear a little bit thisthing.
Okay, I don't know a lot aboutthis, admittedly, but he, he
says he like plays video gamesall the time, Right, and he's
like on a leaderboard, but thensomebody found it's like not
really him, or something Correct.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
And listen.
The two games he plays Diablofour and path of exile two, I
think, is what he's he's on nowthey're very min-max oriented
games and, like I get it right,like I enjoy these kinds of
games, it does scratch a veryspecific itch in the brain of
like let me see if I can get thestats on this glove.
I need to make me do just alittle bit more damage in my
(13:00):
build than I'm doing.
Like it's min-maxing, it's mathplus pulling the roulette wheel
and hoping you get the rightthing At the end of the day.
It really is.
If you just break down all theparts and componentry, it's just
a little bit of luck mixed witha little bit of math.
These things butt up againsteach other and that's what makes
(13:20):
the game take hundreds of hoursto get through.
Homeboy here feels the need wedon't have to get in the details
of it but like he's cheating.
He's like he's cheating to getat the top of the leaderboard.
But by doing that you removeall of the actual fun of the
experience and it's like I justI take this and I think about,
(13:42):
like well, what's the point ofdoing it?
Because, like, no one actuallyyes, there are those, probably
the hundred sickos that careabout their name on the
leaderboard.
The majority I'm willing to bet99% of the people who play these
games do not play it to be onthe leaderboard.
They play it for that littleitch in the brain.
It's like oh yeah, I got what Ineed.
Now I'm a little bit stronger,now I can go get the next thing
(14:09):
I need, so I can be a little bitstronger.
Like that's the principle ofthe thing.
That's why people play thesegames.
If you cheat, you've literallyremoved the enjoyment of the
thing that you're supposed to bedoing with that piece of
interactive media.
Stupid Like this is the this is.
The problem is like we try toshortcut everything now and we
don't even know why we'reshortcutting anymore.
Like we're removing the reasonto shortcut thing in the first
place.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah it's .
I try to do the things likethat you have to do but you
don't want to do.
If I want to enjoy something,I'm not going to be min maxing
habit, stacking what I'm doingRight, you know, it just doesn't
make sense.
Like going outside and readingit.
Yeah, I get vitamin D, Irecognize that.
But I just like being outsideand I like reading.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
I combine those things because they can go
together.
In the olden days they justcalled that relaxing.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Wow, that was a real slap to the face right there.
Yeah, it was a wake up call.
I'm addicted.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Yeah, I think you need to take a long look in the
mirror and say clarky boy, am Ijust looking for terms to apply
to things I do in my life?
That I just enjoy doing well.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
No, that's only one example.
Most of the other stuff is likemindless, stupid stuff that I
have to do.
I hate hate.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Okay, but that's different.
That's different.
No one likes I mean, driving isfun, but like, no one likes
traffic.
That's why we listen topodcasts when we drive.
But like it doesn't have to bea thing, we don't have to create
an Instagram hashtag about it,we don't have to do it.
Do they make hashtags onInstagram?
I honestly don't know.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
I just put those two words together, okay are you
maxing instagram right now?
I haven't used instagram inlike a decade, so I have no, I,
I don't even touch linkedinanymore.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Don't touch it.
I don't touch anything.
You're missing out better thatway it's getting better on.
My happiness increases tenfoldwhen I don't look at things on
the internet just at all.
It's amazing like even evenreddit.
Like is my, that's my place,but like I try and go to like
just the subreddits I like,because the second I see
(16:12):
something about the news orabout the world or politics, I'm
just like damn it.
Oh, why is that?
Why is that clark?
Speaker 1 (16:23):
ignorance is bliss, truth, truth.
I agree with that.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
It's like I'd rather just not know yeah, and make my
life.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
I don't want to stress about something stupid
that's going on in the world andyou could argue like you should
be aware, you need to knoweverything that's going on, but
also, at the same time, it'slike you don't you need to.
You need to manage where yourenergy goes we are ants.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
We are ants just like in bugs life and we do have the
power and we could take downthe grasshoppers if we wanted to
, but right now we kind of likethe grasshopper situation and we
don't really feel the need to.
You know, team together as ants.
In fact, we hate lots of ants,even though they all have six
legs, a head, thorax and anabdomen, an antennae.
(17:07):
We're all ants together, antsstrong together, but we don't
care.
Let's feed the grasshoppers andI'm going to stick my head in
the anthill and just do thethings I enjoy and I'll probably
die that way, and I think I'mgoing to be a lot happier dying
that way than to pretend like Icould somehow rally the ants
(17:28):
together by finding a circustroop of bugs to convince them
that we're warriors, whenactually it's a circus troop.
Bugs Life truly one of thegreatest movies ever made, even
though it is a direct copy ofAkira Kurosawa's Seven Samurai.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Oh, I actually didn't know that Interesting.
I'm going to look that up.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Yeah, it's great, great, lots of copies of Seven
Samurai, magnificent Seven.
Also a Seven Samurai, anotherone they just pop up, you know.
But Bugs Life's a good one,bugs Life's the best one.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
You think back to the movies you watch and like the
deeper meanings and you'reactually like that was actually
pretty profound.
Yeah, it's a cartoon animatedmovie with some pretty bad jokes
, but it's pretty profound theunderlying meaning Talking about
Shrek.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Talking about Shrek.
Do you remember in the hitclassic cinema shrek when
all-stars playing in thebeginning by the band smash
mouth and he pushes all theturds out of the log?
I just love that scene as a kid.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
It's great it was so, it was rich, it was so rich.
You're're like do you rememberthose movies?
Like when you saw those start.
You're like this is going to bea banger, Like you got so
pumped as a kid.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
I've seen this DVD 17 times and I am just as excited
as I've ever been watching thismovie, you see this.
Paramount logo.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
It's a Paramount logo start and I'm like let's
freaking go.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
You didn't need to have it stacked back then you
could just sit down with Shrek,the DVD, and you were in for a
two hour magical experience.
Life was good, Life was great.
You might finish Shrek, youmight go to the extras and be
like I'm going to watch so manyspecial features and then when
I'm done I'm going to startShrek over again.
And things were really good.
Things were really good.
Things were really good.
Then Let me tell you thehappiness index from that
(19:23):
childhood perspective with theShrek DVD.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Oh, can't compete you know this is why I don't enjoy
video games anymore.
It used to be like you enjoyvideo games because you know you
get to just kind of like roamand go on side quests and just
have fun.
There was no like oh, I'mwasting time right now, I could
be spending on something else.
Adulting sucks, that's what Ithink we're saying Like then you
(19:47):
realize I could be spendingthis time doing something else,
or I'm getting fat, like I needto start working out more, and
then you got to sacrifice gametime and then ultimately, you
end up not enjoying playinggames at all.
That's me.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
I don't know how you get there, cause for me, games
are literally the thing I do torelax the mind.
It's like oh, this is.
I play more games as an adultthan as a child because I need
them more as an adult than I didas a child.
I need them, I need that escapethe only.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
They're lifeblood going back to our oh yeah do you
want to?
Okay, I was just going to go ona rant.
You need to start this thingbecause this might never turn
into a topic, so you go aheadspeaking of escape, as we hit
the 21 minute mark in thisepisode.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Hey, guess what, clark, what?
What we're writing a book arewe have we started?
We are we started?
Yes, both have, I think,contributed a page to a book and
some total.
And we had a meeting about it.
We actually had a meeting aboutthe corporate strategy book
(20:48):
that we're going to be writing.
And guess what, clark?
What?
We're going to need the help ofeveryone to make this thing
great.
So, for the listeners out there, we're trying to build
something that's going to covernot just the first few months of
your work experience, buteverything leading up to it
looking for the job, kind ofidentifying your key strengths,
(21:11):
your weaknesses, what kind ofwork you should be doing.
It's a holistic investigationinto the starting and ultimately
beginning of the job.
We're going to call itCorporate Strategy Volume 1, the
search for the great job.
It's going to have art by DrSeuss in it, repurposed.
We're bringing it back.
No, I was just seeing a clock.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
I was kind of like where are you going with this?
These are not things I rememberdiscussing.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
There's going to be no art in this book whatsoever,
but what there is going to be istestimonials from our Discord
community.
So if you're not in the Discordcommunity every time, like what
are you doing?
Open the show notes, click thelink tree, join the Discord, get
in there.
It's a good place, but we'regoing to create a channel.
It'll be specifically aboutthis book and, as we write the
book, we'd actually like to giveyou shout outs and allow you to
(21:58):
fill in some of the blanks thatwe have when it comes to our
own experience.
So keep your eyes peeled forthat.
But for our topic today, clarkactually had the really solid
idea of talking through one ofthe first sections in our book,
so let's do that, yeah, yum game.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Yeah.
This is a really excitingpassion project for us and it
kind of goes back to what wewanted to do all along, where
corporate strategy originated.
It's like, man, we wish wecould go back in time and help
our younger selves in thecorporate world be more
successful, be happier, earnmore money all the things that
we wish.
There was like something to go,you know, off of a guide, and I
(22:45):
think, as we started thispodcast, we don't want something
like serious folding your arms,leaning on a wall, like all
this corporate nonsense that'sout there.
We're both doing it right now.
We're both leaning againstwalls.
We want something that's likesarcastic and funny and like
that will actually be relatable,because everybody, at the end
of the day, we're all humans,we're not these corporate drones
that are out there.
So we wanted to put thistogether as another form of
(23:05):
something that we can educatepeople on and hopefully will be
a really good resource foreverybody out there that does
use it.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
So we talked about a lot of this stuff in this book
on the pod.
So we're like we should collectall this and kind of re put it
back out there.
So we're going to use a fewepisodes of the podcast to talk
about some of the topics thatwill be in the book, to help us
refresh ourselves and to fill inthe outline which we have
started to build.
I'm pumped.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Yeah, unless you're that awesome listener who I
think it was like two months agojoined the discord and they
were like hey, I binge listenedto 70 of your past episodes.
Yeah, unless you're them, andyou just want like a concise
book that puts this all togetherin kind of our tone of voice
and you guys can contribute toit.
I think this is the best way todo it.
So I'm super excited.
So where do we start?
Speaker 2 (23:52):
I mean, the thing that I would really love for us
to talk about is when we get tothe introduction, our first real
chapter is on everybody has towork, and we talk a little bit
about the.
Actually, I guess technicallyit's the third chapter.
It's after everybody has towork.
It's what do you want to doversus what can you do and like
(24:13):
as a as a discussion topic.
I don't think we've actuallytalked about this one much on
the pod before.
Yeah, we haven't touched muchabout like job seeking, job
hunting.
One of my favorite books that Iever read in the self-help
category is the unsettled art ofnot giving a fuck, which I hope
doesn't get us listed as anexplicit podcast, but we'll see.
We'll see if that triggers anyof the filters.
(24:33):
Um, that's the actual title ofthe book, but they make this
really great reference reallyhelped me understand what I want
to do and how I want to do it,because he talks about
specifically everyone wants tobe a rock star until they
realize you have to learn how toplay an instrument.
You have to be really good atplaying an instrument.
(24:55):
Do you want to put in the timeevery day to play that
instrument as well as you needto.
Well, not only do you have todo that, you have to go on tours
.
Do you want to spend 70% ofyour year in a bus going from
location to location?
You know managing yourinstrument, performing, you know
doing all these exhaustivetasks.
It's like no.
I like the idea of being famousand being a rock star, but I
(25:18):
don't actually like the idea ofhaving to do the rock star work.
And that breakdown can beapplied to a lot of things, and
I think what we can do in ourbook is take that but make it
more evaluative for freshers,especially freshers who've maybe
never had jobs before.
Identify where they need toself-evaluate, to say like, hey,
(25:40):
I have a degree in sociology.
All around me are various jobs,none of which really call for
my degree.
How do I actually find out whatI want to do?
How do I find what I need to doand, like, apply for those jobs
to get where I'm going?
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Yeah, yeah, it's funny you bring up that book.
It's been just a topic thatkeeps on recurring.
There's a few episodes theGolden Handcuff episode
capitalist correspondent AlexVerstappen came on and basically
a lot of the episode is exactlyabout that of like breaking it
down into be realistic of whatit would take to achieve that
thing you think you want, andthen it makes it much easier to
(26:17):
rationalize.
Okay, you know, I'm not letdown with myself because I'm not
doing that thing.
I just realized I don't want tomake the sacrifices I need to
do to get to that thing andtherefore I'm happier where I'm
at now because I have thoughtabout it that way and so I think
the book does.
You know it has a ton of otherthings like that, but I totally
agree and I think there is arealism.
It's like you have to factor inas you're thinking about what
(26:39):
can you do before you apply,based on your education, for a
lot of different careers androles, based on your location or
lack of education, Lack ofeducation, right yeah lack of
education or lack of education,your location in the world, like
where are you right now?
Some of the options might noteven be there for you, and I
(27:00):
think all this to say.
You know, as we kind of talkabout it, it kind of sounds like
we're being downers, especiallyfor those freshers out there.
But it's more about beingrealistic.
Not that you shouldn't shootfor the stars and live your
dreams.
If that's truly the only thingthat's going to make you happy,
like you should go do that.
But just think about thesacrifices and the consequences,
both positive and negative, ofwhat it's going to take to get
(27:22):
there.
Think about the journey thatmost people take to get where
you want.
Is that something you reallywant to do?
And if the answer is still yes,like please, by all means, go
do that thing.
This is not about crushingdreams.
But for those people who realize, yeah, I like the idea of the
thing, I don't like the idea ofbeing a starving artist for 20
years to get to the thing, likeI want to have a family, I want
to be able to, you know, live apretty comfortable life, like
(27:44):
all those things.
It's like you have to factorthat into your decision when you
choose, what do I really wantto do?
And so I think a lot of thepeople like Bruce mentioned
where it's like everybody has towork.
I think we have to think aboutfrom the beginning what are your
motivations Like, what are yourinterests and how does that
(28:07):
kind of intersect with, maybe,where you want to look for jobs,
either at a certain location,certain company, whatever it is,
or you know, in a certain fieldwhere you're like I don't
really care about the company, Ijust really like doing this one
specific function.
So I think it's going to be areally interesting thing that we
need to think about, like howdo we break that down to help
people and guide them beforethey even just start mass
applying?
Speaker 2 (28:25):
I think one thing that we can definitely write
about and talk about here youknow, in the second chapter
we've outlined CAC, which welove CAC because it works right,
like it's one of the few thingswe've created in this podcast
that I think has really lastedthe test of time over 150 plus
episodes is culture, autonomy,challenge, compensation.
(28:45):
If, as a fresher, you canidentify the CAC that interests
you and then look at,guesstimate the alignment to the
job you want.
So like, let's say, you knowyou're a fresher and you want to
, you know, be a baker likethat's your, that's your big
dream jobs.
I want to go bake desserts, foryou know, be a baker like
that's your, that's your bigdream jobs.
I want to go bake desserts, foryou know a local dessert shop.
(29:05):
Well, you know the compensationis probably not going to be that
great right Cause you know anyservice industry food job is
just that's the way it is right.
So you have to say, like, on myCAC, compensation has to be low
.
Your autonomy is not going tobe very high either.
You're going to be baking andcreating things that are likely
on the menu for that restaurantand you got to stick to that and
(29:26):
you're gonna have to do it.
Challenge is going to be high.
Culture is going to vary basedon like you know the shop and
where you want to go.
But if you think about, likeyour CAC and what you actually
want, in alignment or even incontrast to the job of baking,
you might be able to say youknow what?
Actually I care way too muchabout money or autonomy to do
(29:47):
this job, so I need to look atthe skills I have.
I need to look at the CAC Iwant and think about other
places where I could apply thiskind of ability with the outcome
I'm seeking.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Yeah, and it doesn't need to be like months of
research but no doing simplethings like let me check out
what the average salary is forthis type of role and then, yeah
, you realize, ooh, like 40 K ayear.
What does my life look like ifI'm living off 40 K a year?
Speaker 2 (30:16):
And is that something I really?
Speaker 1 (30:17):
want and that might gear you know the perspective
that you have before you go andapply and you know, really try
to chase that dream it's.
It's going to be kind of tough,probably financially, in most
places in the United States atleast you know if you want to go
down that path and I thinkthat's where it really comes to
visualize, like, what you wantyour life to be like in the next
five years, 10 years and so on.
(30:37):
You want to, yeah, have a tonof money, be working something
that's fulfilling to whateverthe broader world or solving a
hard problem.
Do you want to just livecomfortably off a modest
paycheck but also be part of acompany that you really like,
where you work and you like thepeople around you?
It's like you have to kind ofvisualize what does that look
like for me and how is my lifegoing to change in the next five
(30:59):
to 10 years?
And then evaluate your CAC forlooking at those jobs, doing
simple searches on salary, beingable to go on blind and see
what are anonymous people in thecompany saying about the
company culture.
All that is going to helpfactor into your decision for
those roles and the companiesthat you apply to.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Yeah, and I think you made a good point too, which is
the long-term portion.
And this is what I wasn'tthinking about is, you know, as
a fresher, yes, you can find aCAC that really aligns with you,
but chances are that job is notgoing to be.
I mean, I won't say it's notgonna be great, but you know,
like you know, you and I startedas quality assurance engineers,
which is not the most desirablething, but our CAC was great at
(31:38):
that job, right.
Like you know, not everyonewants to do that job, but it has
a really nice CAC aligned to it.
You know, in the baker'sexample, maybe your long-term
goal is actually to run your ownshop and you have to start and
get the experience in a localbakery.
So factor that in.
Too Obviously, cac doesn'treally consider the long-term as
(31:58):
part of that equation, andmaybe that's something we need
to think about when it comes to,like, the initial investigation
for onboarding your career ishey, sometimes you got to shovel
crap for five years before youcan actually go off and mine for
gold.
You know, like it's just, it's a, it's a.
There's a progression curvethat has to occur and you need
to be willing to put in the time, or put up with a bad CAC score
(32:19):
to get to the dream job, plusthe CAC you're looking for.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Right, yeah, we often reference CAC as like the
current state workplacehappiness score.
We don't really look at it fromlike a what do I want my CAC to
be?
We look at it as like this isthe weight of how much I value
one thing or the other, but wedon't really look at it from
that regard of like, in fiveyears, what do I want that to be
?
And obviously that changes overtime.
(32:46):
So that's, of course, a factoris like you need to constantly
be reevaluating what you wantthat to be.
But I think it is aninteresting factor to be like.
This is these are the type ofthings I think I'm going to have
to value in five to 10 years,if this is where I'm, if this is
where I'm headed.
And so, yeah, it could be moneyrelated, it could be just
culture, or it could bechallenge, whatever it might be.
If you want to be a lifetimelearner, if you want to be a
baker, whatever it is, you'vegot to factor that in.
(33:07):
That's a really interestingpoint.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Yeah, and I think we'll have to do some more
diagnosing on that specificthing as we build this out.
And again, if this is somethingthat the listener listeners
interested in and you haveadvice that you wouldn't mind
giving us a snippet of, again wewant to give credit.
We just want to pull from allthese sources.
So it's not just Bruce andClark the talking, the talking
(33:30):
heads making this, this section.
So be sure to join the discordand put it on that channel.
If you have any ideas, yeah,what else?
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Clark.
What else in that initialsection?
Yeah, one thing you know whenit comes to applying, it can be
really disheartening.
You know, for jobs, forlocations, like it takes a lot
of effort and energy, andespecially like when you're when
you're new, getting thoserejections is hard because
you're like man, am I ever goingto get, you know, just an
(34:00):
interview.
And going back to you know the,the subtle art of not giving an
F.
It's like sometimes you knowyou have this dream idea in your
mind of like the role, thecompany and like you always are
applying for that, but at theend of the day it just might not
work out.
You know it could just be Oneyou're applying too late, they
already have somebody in mindand it's just.
(34:21):
It's okay.
If that's the case, maybe youjust need to take a stepping
stone to get there and try againlater, when the timing is
better, when you have the rightskillset or whatever it is, and
then eventually somehow youbroke through.
It may have not been exactlywhat you're hoping for, but at
(34:43):
the end of the day maybe it wasa really good move because it
got you that stepping stone toget where you want to go.
Or it was at the right company,just in a different role, and
you're starting off lower thanyou want or whatever, but all it
took was getting your foot inthe door at some place really
great and then you can figureout how to maneuver within the
company to do the thing you wantto do at that company, and so
it'd be really interesting ifanybody has any personal stories
(35:04):
around that, but I hear thatall the time of.
If you have a company that youreally love to work for,
sometimes it's more important toget your foot in the door.
It doesn't matter if theposition is the dream position
you want.
You should try to just go foranything you can get, especially
as a fresher.
Do a bunch of roles so youlearn a bunch of things, and
then you're already in thecompany, so it's much easier to
get the future role you want bymaking those connections.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
I'm thinking back to our guest episode with Monroe
and her journey on the steps shetook to get to where she is
today and just some of the waysthat she had to work through
that situation.
Like, if you have not listenedto that episode I don't know the
number off the top of my head,but I believe it's just
Interview with Monroe.
Look that up in your feed Areally great story of growth and
(35:48):
accomplishment over time andhow you can get there.
And you also just brought upClark.
If you really want to work fora company, you might just do
whatever it takes to get yourfoot in the door.
One of the lines we put in theoutline to the book is do you
want to join a cult?
And I think it is worth talkingabout that for a second,
because when we were outliningthis over Boba Tea, as Clark and
(36:11):
I often do, one of the thingswas like look, you know, you can
go work at Big Corp, like Clarkand I did.
Or you can go work for Googleat big corp.
You're going to work nine tofive, you're going to get paid
well and you're going to shutthe laptop and you're going to
go home.
You go work at Google.
You're going to show up atseven.
You're gonna have breakfastthere.
(36:31):
You're going to work yourbrains out until lunch.
You're going to have lunchthere.
You're going to work yourbrains out until dinner.
You can have dinner there.
You're going to stay afterdinner.
You're going to be there tillnine o'clock at night and you
are part of that.
I mean, they'll call it afamily, they'll call it an
ecosystem, but in reality,you're in a paid cult, right?
Like?
They want you to think like aGoogle person.
(36:52):
They want you to dress like aGoogle person.
They want you to look like aGoogle person, act like a Google
person when you are outside ofwork, those rare moments.
They want you to exhibit theGoogle energy and if that sounds
great to you, fantastic.
I think there's.
You know that's going to shinethrough in the interview process
If you apply to go to one ofthose places.
(37:12):
The passion is really a big partof getting those jobs.
They want the people Disney,apple, google they want the fans
, right, because they knowthey've got you.
They can pay you less, they canwork you more and you're going
to stay there because you lovethe company.
And like, I'm not sayingthere's anything wrong with
being a corporate shill in thisway, like, if that's what you
really want to do, go do it.
(37:33):
But I think, understanding thesacrifices that have to be made,
like you cannot go, start atone of these places and also say
, and I'm going to keep, youknow, skiing on the weekends and
I'm going to have two kids, andit's like you're going to be
miserable and it's you're notgonna be able to balance all of
those plates.
So, like the cult lifestyle isnot for everyone it's it's for
those that are truly invested inthe company.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Absolutely yeah.
A lot of bonuses to doing thattoo.
It's like it's a great name tohave in your resume.
You're probably going to besurrounded by a bunch of really
smart people all working towardsthat goal, which is it's fun.
You know, it's fun when you'reall working towards something
that you really enjoy, but youhave to make sacrifices of other
things.
And if your goal is, yeah, tostart a family and have kids
(38:17):
probably not the place you wantto immediately go to I think
it's going to be really hard tobe able to keep up there with
the expectations and the peoplearound you.
And I've also heard you know,I've worked with some people
who've worked there and I'vetalked to some people as well.
Sometimes you can find thatniche of the company where you
can kind of just lay back andrelax and not really do anything
.
It's almost like the showSilicon Valley, where they go to
(38:37):
the rooftop and people kind offorget about them.
That can happen, yeah.
So those are also a lot ofthings you have to think about.
It's like you might be able tofind that, but there's no
guarantee.
I think you know 90% of peopleare probably doing what Bruce is
saying right now, and you'vegot to be willing to understand
that, because you're going therefor a reason.
I think Amazon is anotherexample.
It's like, yeah, the culturethere is, you do nothing but
(38:58):
work.
It's results.
Like, yeah, yeah, the culturethere is, you do nothing but
work, it's results.
It's, you know, all measuredand if you're not working at
that level, you will likely becut.
And so you've got to realizeyou're there to make that
sacrifice, either for the money,for a short period of time, for
the name on your resume, likethat's all valid reasons to do
it.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
When we were in engineering, one of our friends
told me once that go look up anyNetflix engineer on LinkedIn
any one of them and guaranteeyou they will have two years or
less experience, because it's achurn and burn environment,
right Like.
You go there to get Netflix onyour resume and then you get out
as soon as humanly possiblebecause you cannot live a life
(39:41):
and work at a company like thatand be happy, right Like.
Obviously there are going to bethose, those few, that just
really thrive in thatenvironment and there's nothing
wrong with that, right?
I think again, this goes backto understanding your CAC.
There are certain people thatwant to live in that office and
they want to code and work andgrind all day and they enjoy
(40:02):
that and that's what they wantto do and they're getting paid
money to do something they enjoy.
There's nothing wrong with thatat all.
But I think you do have to takeyour realism pills and say, like
, is this what I want?
Or do I want to get paid?
Well, so I can do the hobbies Iwant to do on the weekend, so I
can have a family, so I can gokayaking or do whatever the heck
it is you like doingSomething's got to get cut.
(40:31):
You can't have it stack jobsand life, so you have to.
You have to figure out your CACand and apply for the place
that I think is going to respectwhat you want to have as an
outcome, both in in work andoutside of work.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
Yeah, I think visualization is such a powerful
tool and, to be honest with you, I'm not great at it.
But people who can likeathletes, artists, all that
stuff, like they visualize whatthey want to do, like how's the
performance going to be, howdoes it feel Like, really try to
put themselves in that mindset.
And they don't have all theanswers right, like they don't
know what's going to happen,live out there, but they know
(41:02):
what success looks like and theythink about that.
I'm like how do I do?
Amazing, and I think that issomething really important to do
when you're a fresher and Icertainly didn't do it, but I
think it is important to be likeokay, if I were to get this job
, how does it feel, you know, amI enjoying it?
And when I evaluate my CAC,like that day-to-day that I'm
walking in, is it something thatI'm going to do?
And a quick personal note islike at one point I had the
(41:25):
opportunity to join a reallygood company and one of my
mentors was basically telling meit's like sometimes, you know,
you just got to get your foot inthe door.
Maybe this is a really goodopportunity to do it, but the
role was doing more projectmanagement stuff, not product
management stuff.
And I was like, okay, let mereally think about this.
Like am I going to enjoy doingthat, even if it's at this
company for like roughly thesame pay and I'm going to have
(41:48):
to do it for a while before Iget to the thing I want?
And the answer was no.
It's like I'd much rather staydoing what I'm doing now in the
role that I'm in, then go dothat thing, even though it could
eventually lead to it so andwho knows, it's not guaranteed
If I went there and there wasnever a role doing product
management versus projectmanagement, then I might just be
stuck with that until I decidedto leave.
So it's kind of sitting downand really thinking about what
(42:11):
are the trade-offs of doing thisand I think that's a really
important tip is like visualizehow you want to feel, how you
want it to look like, how youwant your life to look like, and
then look at the opportunityand evaluate it against that.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
And you can do that Like I do want to point out,
like I literally did that in mycurrent job right Like I left a
role that for the most part Iliked in solutions marketing to
take a technical marketing job,which technical marketing is not
nearly as interesting assolutions marketing, but I knew
I could get back there and notonly did I get the title I
(42:42):
wanted, I also got the positionI wanted a year and a half later
and the team that I wanted andeverything else.
But it just took work and avisualization of what I needed
to do to accomplish that.
And then the reminding of folkslike, hey, I did all of this, I
should be here now and I am, solike you can do it.
But it's just like Clark said,you have to be willing to put in
the work and potentially dealwith things you don't want to
(43:05):
deal with to get there.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
Yeah, absolutely yeah , yeah.
These are all things that Ithink are in a form of really
nice start of this book forfreshers or people that are just
looking to make a change, Likeif someone's going just like
Monroe's story, going frommilitary to entrepreneurship to
eventually like big corporationseverybody has their own unique
path and I think this startingthis first volume, if you will
(43:27):
will be a really good guidinglight for people who are either
starting over, going intocorporations for the first time
or just being a fresher witheducation without education
doesn't matter.
It's kind of a good startingpoint for whoever's going that
direction.
But I think the broader visionis like there will be multiple
volumes of all this information,all the great people we've had
on the community itself thatcome together that will tell the
(43:47):
next chapter.
You know, beyond just your 30,60, 90 days, what's happening
next, how do I go beyond?
How do I even like prep forretiring or whatever it might be
.
I think hopefully one day we'llbuild that together by not only
just living it but also bringon really great people who have
died before us and we can makesomething really awesome that we
can share with everybody.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
Yeah, and that is the goal is to make something
that's actually we're not tryingto become billionaires on this
book, right, like?
The goal of the book is to helppeople.
So you know, that's why we callon y'all is help us help them.
If you have stories or if youthink you've heard this episode
and like, hey, I actually have areally great story, I think
it'd be great to come on thepodcast and share as a guest,
(44:28):
that's great too, like we cantake that and we can turn that
into a testimonial inside of thebook itself.
So, either way, we're going tocreate a channel inside of the
Discord.
It'll be under the CS, thepodcast sub channel directory.
It'll be all about the book andthere'll be a great place to
talk about this episode andfuture episodes where we talk
about book material, and we'llalso give updates on our status
and progress and I'm sure we'llshare some early drafts with
(44:51):
y'all as well.
But one of our goals for thisyear, we're going to get it done
one page at a time.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Yeah, it's going to be great.
I'll be honest.
Writing that one page, I waslike, okay, yeah, this book
might be shorter than I thought.
I thought that would fill up alot more pages just by rambling,
I guess not no, no, give ittime.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
Give it time.
Trust.
As someone who writes, you willbe shocked the the first bits
are the hardest and then, onceyou start getting rolling,
you'll find it's like, oh, wehave way too much we need to to
cut, cut, cut, cut, cut, cut.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
Yeah, I'm excited.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
It's all going to be really good.
Yeah, I already read your part.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
I was like, oh yeah, this is going to be awesome.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
It's going to be fun.
Yeah, I made some stylisticdecisions in the intro, so it'll
be good.
It'll be a good setup.
I'm excited for the listenerdiscord participation.
I think it's gonna be reallyfun.
We love y'all, we appreciatey'all and we hope that this is
an exciting opportunity for allof us.
So do let us know what you'rethinking in that discord.
(45:52):
You can get there by going tothe link tree.
Also, things in the discord.
We have not had a.
What do you mean?
Or is it me, or is it corporatein a minute?
Speaker 1 (46:03):
so what I need y'all to do it's been.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
It's been quiet in the discord and I think that's
partially our fault.
But what I need y'all to do iscreate a meme, either based on
this episode or the last one, oror go nuts on the uh, the
capitals correspondent, alexRestrepo episode.
Just meme that to death.
Go on.
Meme him.
He loves to be memed.
Meme that man.
Put it in the what Do you Memechannel and then go to Is it Me
(46:27):
or Is it Corporate?
If you have a corporateconfession, if you want us to
identify like completelyanonymous, if you go forward,
slash confess type in yourconfession, you'll be able to
completely anonymously submitsomething.
We'll read it out loud.
We'll diagnose whether this isa you problem or a corporate
problem.
They're really fun to talkthrough and I think it actually
helps other people realize thatwe're all in this terrible
(46:48):
corporate boat together.
So go in there and put one inthere if you got one.
Otherwise, share the pod, ratethe pod, send the pod to your
enemies, send the pod to yourfriends, send the pod to Clark.
I don't think he listens.
So we need to get it out there,clark.
What else is there?
Speaker 1 (47:04):
We're pod racing baby , you said pod so many times
that it was just stuck in myhead.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Don't say that.
Don't say that we alreadytalked about Shrek.
You know, one of my favoritescenes in any movie of all time,
like top five movie scenes evermade.
And yes, for the few people outthere who appreciate good
cinema, don't be like they'vebeen.
Her did it first.
I know been her did it first.
George Lucas did it better andhe did it with fricking pod
(47:30):
racing.
Okay, so one of the greatestscenes in cinema history.
It's perfect.
I wouldn't change a singlefricking thing, even the land
and.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
Skywalker going it's working, it's working.
That whole movie is irrelevant.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
No need for it.
Jar Jar Binks getting his facestuck in the laser beams, but
the whole movie.
Just skip it.
That movie is great.
That movie is in my top threeStar Wars movies.
I'm not ashamed to say thatit's number three but it's still
top three.
I love that movie.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
I'll be honest.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
I I love that movie.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
I'll be honest, I do love that movie too, just
because of this nostalgia.
But yeah, when you really lookback at it you're like this
didn't really need to happen.
We will.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
We're gonna do a spinoff pod that's gonna be
called corporate star warsy andclark and I are gonna re-watch
every star wars movie, includingthe tv shows, and we're gonna
do a full diagnostic on why thePhantom Menace is critically
underrated and deserves thesecond chance.
So we'll we'll have to watchall of them and do an episode on
(48:32):
each of them.
In fact, it's probablyworthwhile for us to do maybe
four episodes per movie, just sowe can really give it the time.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
We're editing all this out.
We got to cut the show.
We could not make this manycommitments.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
In fact, I'm saying screw the book.
I think Star Wars Pod soundsway more interesting.
What about you, listener?
We're going to put up a poll inthe chat.
Would you rather help us writea book, or we're going to start
a Kickstarter for Curb and StarWarsy the podcast.
We're going to change the nameof our podcast.
No, no, no.
(49:05):
We're starting a new podcast,second podcast $20 more a month.
So I'm going to go poor onpodcasts.
See another strategy.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
We just no, no.
If we convert this one, they'llnever know.
We'll just naturally transitionthem to this Star Wars podcast.
Oh, we have the listeners yeah,we already have them and they
come in.
They're gonna be like they have150 episodes.
Yeah, there's a lot of that.
Speaker 2 (49:28):
You know, like we really I gotta catch up.
And then like 20 episodes inthere, like they don't talk
about star wars on this at all.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
It's all how it works .
When do they get to the starwars?
It's really just for the seo.
That's what the star wars isfor.
Speaker 2 (49:40):
Yeah, I hate when.
I hate when things just do thatin general, like I'm gonna,
what's it?
It's um, there's a word forit's.
It's not trend jacking, it's uma clickbait, isn't it clickbait
?
Yeah, it's, it's clickbait, butthere's actually a name for
when you buy a domain or a thingso that you can launch your new
thing off of the marketingsuccess of that thing.
(50:02):
There's a word for it.
It's not hijacked, but it'slike that Big switch.
Speaker 1 (50:10):
I don't know what's happening over in that corner.
Do you hear this?
I don't hear it, but I can seeit.
Speaker 2 (50:16):
My pit boxer mix just head-butted through the door,
came to my office, stuck herface up to the window window and
is like intensity growling oh.
I guess she's so excited forcorporate Star Wars.
She's telling the world she'slike go down.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
She heard the.
She heard you talking about.
She's now coming in.
Let's get this going.
Speaker 2 (50:36):
I also agree Phantom Menace is a great movie.
Speaker 1 (50:42):
Oh, we got to end this before we make any more
promises.
This is getting out of hand.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
Good call.
Well, as always, we love youthe listener, we love you the
Clark, and I think that'severything.
As always, I'm Bruce, he'ssquirreling now.
You got him, you got me, yougot me, you got me, he got me.
Hey, you're on mute.
(51:06):
We'll see you next week.
don't you act, don't you do this you're doing, you're
squirreling me.
Sometimes I squirrel you,you're squirreling me you got
something to say welcome back tothe podcast giving an email.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I'm bruce, got him, got him and I'm out.
Yeah, you are just.
I just destroyed clark.
I just destroyed him in realtime.
That's what you just saw happenhere.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Got him how you doing clark, I'm, I'm alive, you see
how I look right now uh-huh yeah, you look like a hacker.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Clark has a white hoodie a white gray hoodie on.
For some reason, it's 77degrees outside.
Why are you mush?
What's going on?
Speaker 1 (00:51):
I'm mush, I don't know what it is.
I don't know what it is aboutthis week.
Maybe it's something to do withthe warm weather.
Yeah, maybe I'm just more tired.
I didn't do anything different.
I get more tired in the cold,do you?
My diet's the same, I'm justmore tired.
I didn't do anything different.
I get more tired in the cold,do you?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
My diet's the same.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
I'm exercising the same amount, Same schedule
Nothing's really new.
But I just feel exhausted forsome reason.
Maybe it is the change ofweather, Maybe because we went
from cold to hot.
What do you think?
You know?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
tuberculosis is back.
Maybe you got TB.
Yeah, oh no.
Yeah, I think you got that.
Yep, that's how it starts.
Sound like it?
Yeah, I think you got it.
I think you got it.
Man, you're in the right state,though.
You're in the state where theyused to send all the TB patients
, so you'll survive, don't worry.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Well, that's good news.
How are you?
Yeah, have you gotten over yoursickness?
Are you healthy?
Yes, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
No, the antibiotics, they didn't just work, they like
cured up some other stuff I wasdealing with too, which is nice
, so I'm better than good, I'mgreat.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
I'm great you actually said that.
You said that on the lastepisode that you think the
antibiotics might help clearother stuff.
That's good to hear yeah, theydid.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
It definitely did, because I was having some
trouble with my ears and it'sjust gone now.
So, nice, good, yeah, it'sawesome you do look like yeah,
I'm sitting down.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
You're standing up.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
That just tells me all I need to know I mean, my
feet even hurt and I'm standingup.
I put so check this out, youwant to.
You want a pro-life tip?
Corporate strategist.
I bought some slippers slippershoe type indoor shoes and put
in my orthotics.
So now, all day, when I'mstanding, I'm helping rebuild
(02:38):
the arches in my feet.
It's not comfortable, but I amtaking care of a physical
ailment as I'm standing hereworking.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Wow, that's actually that is a thousand IQ.
Move right there.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Sometimes I got it, sometimes I don't.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Look at you.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Sometimes I'm a zero IQ individual, so it just
depends on the day.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Have you heard about the concept of habit stacking?
Speaker 2 (03:06):
No, have you heard about the concept of habit
stacking?
No, that sounds.
That sounds like something I'mgoing to roll my eyes at.
But go ahead, Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Put it out there this is not sponsored by David Allen
.
This is.
I don't even know where thisoriginates.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Habit stacking is where you start with a habit and
then you build something microon top of it.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
You started with a habit and then you build
something micro on top of it.
You started with a habitstanding up.
Then you added another habit ofusing your, your shoes or your
orth.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Orthotics is that what you call them orthotic
inserts.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Yeah, yeah you.
Then you added those to it.
And now your habit stacking.
You're standing and you'rehelping correct your arches in
your soles.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Now you're habit stacking, you're standing and
you're helping correct yourarches and your soles.
Can I just do?
We have to name everything.
Do we have to give everything aself-help name?
Oh, I'm habit stacking.
Oh I'm micro dosing.
Oh I'm I'm min maxing my, mycarboholic intake.
Don't worry guys, I'm going togo do a power set of 20 today so
(04:05):
I can load stack my quadriceps.
When does it stop?
When do we just start speakingregularly to each other?
Oh yeah, bro, Get that habitstack on.
Trust me, You're really goingto feel good once you start
habit stacking.
Just go takezempic and get itover with like this is not
(04:28):
medical advice just just go getozempic and enjoy your life like
that is hilarious.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Um, yeah, I think the brain works better when you
have these small little words,something you know.
It's funny because I'm curiouson your thoughts.
I think the brain works betterwhen you have these small little
words, something you know.
It's funny because I'm curiouson your thoughts.
I think a lot of people justdon't think like this, like.
(04:59):
That's why I think it's helpful, because, like you yeah, you're
sick of it because you probablyhear this all the time, but I'd
say you're in the upper echelonof the average human being.
Thanks buddy.
Not just because you're a whitemale born in America.
That helps.
That helps with it.
Yeah, that situation that helps, I think, in what you do, in
(05:20):
knowledge work, like you kind ofjust get these things.
You're like I don't need tothink about doing these, these
things, I just do them becauseit's good for me.
I don't think a lot of peoplelike have the time or mental
capacity to do it.
So when something comes up andthey're like have it stacking,
it's like two words, it's likethat's genius, why don't I?
When I'm going to the bathroomI'm also, you know, hosting
(05:41):
learning to a lingo yeah, yeah,or learning lingo, exactly.
It's like a lot of people don'treally think about that, but
it's like you can probably dothat Habit stacking.
I mean, okay, see what I do.
I go on the treadmill at theend of my workouts to get some
cardio in, and it usually endsin like a slow walk, and at that
(06:01):
point I actually pull up mylaptop and sometimes I crank
through mindless email.
I in like a slow walk and atthat point I actually pull up my
laptop and sometimes I crankthrough mindless email.
I'm like I don't need to payattention to any of the slot
that I'm looking at right now.
Let me crank out a hundredemails and I literally do it.
I'm habit stack.
I'm doing cardio and I'mdealing with stuff that doesn't
require a lot of thinking.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
See, but even even that term habit stacking, like
habits, I I well, I guess thereare bad habits, right, but like
a good habit, like that, just Idon't know, I I don't like the
email on a treadmill like,firstly, our lives are a
treadmill.
Don't do email on the treadmill, don't do that clark.
(06:38):
Just watch an anime.
Go watch an anime on thetreadmill.
I could like that.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Go read trade-offs, read a book read something
you've never read on thetreadmill go read, read a book,
read something you've never readbefore don't go read email.
You know I habit stack reading.
I'm going to start doing that.
I'm going to do this wholeepisode with habit stack.
I habit stack reading where Isit outside in the sun and I
read so I get vitamin D and I'mreading at the same time and I
(07:06):
love the outdoors so it helpsreset my brain.
Habit stacking.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
I am not sorry for squirreling you in the beginning
.
You deserve to be squirreledafter the things you've just
admitted into the microphone.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
What else do we habit stack?
What else do you habit stack?
Speaker 2 (07:27):
I don't, I don't, I don't really like multitasking
because I can't focus well whenI do.
Yeah, for for me I mean, yeah,you know, like wearing orthotics
and standing and working,that's, that's nothing.
But you know, I can't watch avideo and play a game at the
same time, I just can't One.
I think it's disrespectful tothe art I'm engaging with.
(07:49):
So, like, if I'm watching amovie, I'm not on a phone, right
, like I'm watching a movie, I'mnot on my phone, but that's the
way it is.
Okay, I mean, think back to theolden times when a book was the
best thing you could ever havein your home.
Like you sit down by candlelightand you read your book because
(08:10):
it's a privilege to be able toread and to consume the word and
think about what's written, andyou might read that book 60
times because that might be oneof the 10 books you have for the
rest of your life, but you giveit the attention it deserves.
And now it's like, yeah, Imight do a little bit of you
know, I'm gonna eat my cheesenips while I'm watching, you
know, the catch up of 90 DayFiance, all while Instagramming
(08:34):
my life about how privileged Iam to sit on my $4,000 couch.
And while I'm doing that, I'malso having my toes manicured by
the manicure bot 5,000.
It's like, at what point do yourealize that you're just,
you're everything, and by beingeverything, you're nothing Like?
When does that sit in?
When do you realize like you'renot enjoying anything anymore
(08:54):
and like you cannot sit down andjust have a moment with a piece
of content and consume thatcontent and let it waft over
your brain?
When does that happen?
When do you?
Speaker 1 (09:04):
realize.
This is where you've got it allwrong.
You don't habit stack thingsthat require all this attention.
You can't habit stack thosethings.
It makes no sense if you habitstack something mindless with
something that requires yourmind.
Let's say you're doing an artform.
You're like I really need toimprove my grip email is not
mindless though.
Yeah, you'd See, this is whereyou're not in big corp anymore.
(09:26):
Email, for the most part 95% ispretty freaking mindless, Like
I can give answers to emails.
Did you just filter that crap?
I do, but most of it, you know,does get filtered, and then a
lot of it.
I just need to reply to withlike three words and be like
don't do that.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Thanks.
Do we ever talk about my twoline methodology?
No, here's a, here's a.
This is not a habit stack, thisis just a pro-life tip for
anyone in work.
There's a.
This is Bruce's two linemethodology.
If your name is in the two line, you look at the email.
If it is not, archive it.
If you get another one about it, archive it.
If you get a third one, thenyou can respond to it.
But I guarantee you if yourname is not in the two line,
(10:06):
it's not your problem andsomeone else will respond and
handle it.
If your name's like hey, rightnow I'm looking at an email
Name's not in the two line, I'mgoing to archive that email.
Right after this it's gone.
Not even going to read it, noteven going to engage with it,
and it's probably important itin the Bruce Tulane methodology.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
In Big Corp, I get that.
In a startup, I don't get that.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
I mean, my name is almost always in the Tulane at
startup, so you know I can'treally do that here.
But when I was at Big Corp, bro, you better believe Bruce's
Tulane methodology all day,every day.
I did not engage with emailthat much because of it.
Fair enough, If it's important,it'll come back.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
That's a really good point.
It's just like the out ofoffice thing we talked about.
But go back to the habitstacking thing.
I know you want to get off thestock, but I don't.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
I combine something mindless with something mindful.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
So I was going to the example of like you could
combine.
Let's say you want to improveyour grip strength when you're
watching the movie you can justbe squeezing a little grip
strength thing okay, mindlesswith mindful.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
When you're driving, do you listen to podcasts?
Same idea is it?
Driving is not a habit yeah,but it's dead time.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
You got to do it and then you're stacking something
of your learning.
That's's not habit stackingFair enough.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Doing something mindless, I mean Right.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
You combine the activities bathroom, duolingo.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Orthotics standing, like that's habit stacking,
because it's two positive thingsyou're now putting, it's two
good habits you're puttingtogether.
Listening to things in the caris not a habit.
Stack, my friend.
Chain smoking that's what yourvent says from running off the
road into a ditch willfullyChain smoking binge, drinking
(11:52):
habit stacking.
That's bad habit stacking.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
I never said it had to be good.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
No, I mean, this is so stupid.
Why do we do this?
Why do human do this?
Why do human beings feel theneed to min-max everything?
I mean, have you, I dare, Idare go into this?
Have you seen what's going onwith Elon Musk in video games?
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Oh no, I don't want to go here.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
No, I have not, mr.
Ketamine Elmo.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Wait, wait, wait.
I did hear a little bit thisthing.
Okay, I don't want to go here.
No, I did not Wait, wait, wait.
I did hear a little bit thisthing.
Okay, I don't know a lot aboutthis, admittedly, but he, he
says he like plays video gamesall the time, Right, and he's
like on a leaderboard, but thensomebody found it's like not
really him, or something Correct.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
And listen.
The two games he plays Diablofour and path of exile two, I
think, is what he's he's on nowthey're very min-max oriented
games and, like I get it right,like I enjoy these kinds of
games, it does scratch a veryspecific itch in the brain of
like let me see if I can get thestats on this glove.
I need to make me do just alittle bit more damage in my
(13:00):
build than I'm doing.
Like it's min-maxing, it's mathplus pulling the roulette wheel
and hoping you get the rightthing At the end of the day.
It really is.
If you just break down all theparts and componentry, it's just
a little bit of luck mixed witha little bit of math.
These things butt up againsteach other and that's what makes
(13:20):
the game take hundreds of hoursto get through.
Homeboy here feels the need wedon't have to get in the details
of it but like he's cheating.
He's like he's cheating to getat the top of the leaderboard.
But by doing that you removeall of the actual fun of the
experience and it's like I justI take this and I think about,
(13:42):
like well, what's the point ofdoing it?
Because, like, no one actuallyyes, there are those, probably
the hundred sickos that careabout their name on the
leaderboard.
The majority I'm willing to bet99% of the people who play these
games do not play it to be onthe leaderboard.
They play it for that littleitch in the brain.
It's like oh yeah, I got what Ineed.
Now I'm a little bit stronger,now I can go get the next thing
(14:09):
I need, so I can be a little bitstronger.
Like that's the principle ofthe thing.
That's why people play thesegames.
If you cheat, you've literallyremoved the enjoyment of the
thing that you're supposed to bedoing with that piece of
interactive media.
Stupid Like this is the this is.
The problem is like we try toshortcut everything now and we
don't even know why we'reshortcutting anymore.
Like we're removing the reasonto shortcut thing in the first
place.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah it's .
I try to do the things likethat you have to do but you
don't want to do.
If I want to enjoy something,I'm not going to be min maxing
habit, stacking what I'm doingRight, you know, it just doesn't
make sense.
Like going outside and readingit.
Yeah, I get vitamin D, Irecognize that.
But I just like being outsideand I like reading.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
I combine those things because they can go
together.
In the olden days they justcalled that relaxing.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Wow, that was a real slap to the face right there.
Yeah, it was a wake up call.
I'm addicted.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Yeah, I think you need to take a long look in the
mirror and say clarky boy, am Ijust looking for terms to apply
to things I do in my life?
That I just enjoy doing well.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
No, that's only one example.
Most of the other stuff is likemindless, stupid stuff that I
have to do.
I hate hate.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Okay, but that's different.
That's different.
No one likes I mean, driving isfun, but like, no one likes
traffic.
That's why we listen topodcasts when we drive.
But like it doesn't have to bea thing, we don't have to create
an Instagram hashtag about it,we don't have to do it.
Do they make hashtags onInstagram?
I honestly don't know.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
I just put those two words together, okay are you
maxing instagram right now?
I haven't used instagram inlike a decade, so I have no, I,
I don't even touch linkedinanymore.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Don't touch it.
I don't touch anything.
You're missing out better thatway it's getting better on.
My happiness increases tenfoldwhen I don't look at things on
the internet just at all.
It's amazing like even evenreddit.
Like is my, that's my place,but like I try and go to like
just the subreddits I like,because the second I see
(16:12):
something about the news orabout the world or politics, I'm
just like damn it.
Oh, why is that?
Why is that clark?
Speaker 1 (16:23):
ignorance is bliss, truth, truth.
I agree with that.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
It's like I'd rather just not know yeah, and make my
life.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
I don't want to stress about something stupid
that's going on in the world andyou could argue like you should
be aware, you need to knoweverything that's going on, but
also, at the same time, it'slike you don't you need to.
You need to manage where yourenergy goes we are ants.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
We are ants just like in bugs life and we do have the
power and we could take downthe grasshoppers if we wanted to
, but right now we kind of likethe grasshopper situation and we
don't really feel the need to.
You know, team together as ants.
In fact, we hate lots of ants,even though they all have six
legs, a head, thorax and anabdomen, an antennae.
(17:07):
We're all ants together, antsstrong together, but we don't
care.
Let's feed the grasshoppers andI'm going to stick my head in
the anthill and just do thethings I enjoy and I'll probably
die that way, and I think I'mgoing to be a lot happier dying
that way than to pretend like Icould somehow rally the ants
(17:28):
together by finding a circustroop of bugs to convince them
that we're warriors, whenactually it's a circus troop.
Bugs Life truly one of thegreatest movies ever made, even
though it is a direct copy ofAkira Kurosawa's Seven Samurai.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Oh, I actually didn't know that Interesting.
I'm going to look that up.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Yeah, it's great, great, lots of copies of Seven
Samurai, magnificent Seven.
Also a Seven Samurai, anotherone they just pop up, you know.
But Bugs Life's a good one,bugs Life's the best one.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
You think back to the movies you watch and like the
deeper meanings and you'reactually like that was actually
pretty profound.
Yeah, it's a cartoon animatedmovie with some pretty bad jokes
, but it's pretty profound theunderlying meaning Talking about
Shrek.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Talking about Shrek.
Do you remember in the hitclassic cinema shrek when
all-stars playing in thebeginning by the band smash
mouth and he pushes all theturds out of the log?
I just love that scene as a kid.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
It's great it was so, it was rich, it was so rich.
You're're like do you rememberthose movies?
Like when you saw those start.
You're like this is going to bea banger, Like you got so
pumped as a kid.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
I've seen this DVD 17 times and I am just as excited
as I've ever been watching thismovie, you see this.
Paramount logo.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
It's a Paramount logo start and I'm like let's
freaking go.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
You didn't need to have it stacked back then you
could just sit down with Shrek,the DVD, and you were in for a
two hour magical experience.
Life was good, Life was great.
You might finish Shrek, youmight go to the extras and be
like I'm going to watch so manyspecial features and then when
I'm done I'm going to startShrek over again.
And things were really good.
Things were really good.
Things were really good.
Then Let me tell you thehappiness index from that
(19:23):
childhood perspective with theShrek DVD.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Oh, can't compete you know this is why I don't enjoy
video games anymore.
It used to be like you enjoyvideo games because you know you
get to just kind of like roamand go on side quests and just
have fun.
There was no like oh, I'mwasting time right now, I could
be spending on something else.
Adulting sucks, that's what Ithink we're saying Like then you
(19:47):
realize I could be spendingthis time doing something else,
or I'm getting fat, like I needto start working out more, and
then you got to sacrifice gametime and then ultimately, you
end up not enjoying playinggames at all.
That's me.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
I don't know how you get there, cause for me, games
are literally the thing I do torelax the mind.
It's like oh, this is.
I play more games as an adultthan as a child because I need
them more as an adult than I didas a child.
I need them, I need that escapethe only.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
They're lifeblood going back to our oh yeah do you
want to?
Okay, I was just going to go ona rant.
You need to start this thingbecause this might never turn
into a topic, so you go aheadspeaking of escape, as we hit
the 21 minute mark in thisepisode.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Hey, guess what, clark, what?
What we're writing a book arewe have we started?
We are we started?
Yes, both have, I think,contributed a page to a book and
some total.
And we had a meeting about it.
We actually had a meeting aboutthe corporate strategy book
(20:48):
that we're going to be writing.
And guess what, clark?
What?
We're going to need the help ofeveryone to make this thing
great.
So, for the listeners out there, we're trying to build
something that's going to covernot just the first few months of
your work experience, buteverything leading up to it
looking for the job, kind ofidentifying your key strengths,
(21:11):
your weaknesses, what kind ofwork you should be doing.
It's a holistic investigationinto the starting and ultimately
beginning of the job.
We're going to call itCorporate Strategy Volume 1, the
search for the great job.
It's going to have art by DrSeuss in it, repurposed.
We're bringing it back.
No, I was just seeing a clock.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
I was kind of like where are you going with this?
These are not things I rememberdiscussing.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
There's going to be no art in this book whatsoever,
but what there is going to be istestimonials from our Discord
community.
So if you're not in the Discordcommunity every time, like what
are you doing?
Open the show notes, click thelink tree, join the Discord, get
in there.
It's a good place, but we'regoing to create a channel.
It'll be specifically aboutthis book and, as we write the
book, we'd actually like to giveyou shout outs and allow you to
(21:58):
fill in some of the blanks thatwe have when it comes to our
own experience.
So keep your eyes peeled forthat.
But for our topic today, clarkactually had the really solid
idea of talking through one ofthe first sections in our book,
so let's do that, yeah, yum game.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Yeah.
This is a really excitingpassion project for us and it
kind of goes back to what wewanted to do all along, where
corporate strategy originated.
It's like, man, we wish wecould go back in time and help
our younger selves in thecorporate world be more
successful, be happier, earnmore money all the things that
we wish.
There was like something to go,you know, off of a guide, and I
(22:45):
think, as we started thispodcast, we don't want something
like serious folding your arms,leaning on a wall, like all
this corporate nonsense that'sout there.
We're both doing it right now.
We're both leaning againstwalls.
We want something that's likesarcastic and funny and like
that will actually be relatable,because everybody, at the end
of the day, we're all humans,we're not these corporate drones
that are out there.
So we wanted to put thistogether as another form of
(23:05):
something that we can educatepeople on and hopefully will be
a really good resource foreverybody out there that does
use it.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
So we talked about a lot of this stuff in this book
on the pod.
So we're like we should collectall this and kind of re put it
back out there.
So we're going to use a fewepisodes of the podcast to talk
about some of the topics thatwill be in the book, to help us
refresh ourselves and to fill inthe outline which we have
started to build.
I'm pumped.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Yeah, unless you're that awesome listener who I
think it was like two months agojoined the discord and they
were like hey, I binge listenedto 70 of your past episodes.
Yeah, unless you're them, andyou just want like a concise
book that puts this all togetherin kind of our tone of voice
and you guys can contribute toit.
I think this is the best way todo it.
So I'm super excited.
So where do we start?
Speaker 2 (23:52):
I mean, the thing that I would really love for us
to talk about is when we get tothe introduction, our first real
chapter is on everybody has towork, and we talk a little bit
about the.
Actually, I guess technicallyit's the third chapter.
It's after everybody has towork.
It's what do you want to doversus what can you do and like
(24:13):
as a as a discussion topic.
I don't think we've actuallytalked about this one much on
the pod before.
Yeah, we haven't touched muchabout like job seeking, job
hunting.
One of my favorite books that Iever read in the self-help
category is the unsettled art ofnot giving a fuck, which I hope
doesn't get us listed as anexplicit podcast, but we'll see.
We'll see if that triggers anyof the filters.
(24:33):
Um, that's the actual title ofthe book, but they make this
really great reference reallyhelped me understand what I want
to do and how I want to do it,because he talks about
specifically everyone wants tobe a rock star until they
realize you have to learn how toplay an instrument.
You have to be really good atplaying an instrument.
(24:55):
Do you want to put in the timeevery day to play that
instrument as well as you needto.
Well, not only do you have todo that, you have to go on tours
.
Do you want to spend 70% ofyour year in a bus going from
location to location?
You know managing yourinstrument, performing, you know
doing all these exhaustivetasks.
It's like no.
I like the idea of being famousand being a rock star, but I
(25:18):
don't actually like the idea ofhaving to do the rock star work.
And that breakdown can beapplied to a lot of things, and
I think what we can do in ourbook is take that but make it
more evaluative for freshers,especially freshers who've maybe
never had jobs before.
Identify where they need toself-evaluate, to say like, hey,
(25:40):
I have a degree in sociology.
All around me are various jobs,none of which really call for
my degree.
How do I actually find out whatI want to do?
How do I find what I need to doand, like, apply for those jobs
to get where I'm going?
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Yeah, yeah, it's funny you bring up that book.
It's been just a topic thatkeeps on recurring.
There's a few episodes theGolden Handcuff episode
capitalist correspondent AlexVerstappen came on and basically
a lot of the episode is exactlyabout that of like breaking it
down into be realistic of whatit would take to achieve that
thing you think you want, andthen it makes it much easier to
(26:17):
rationalize.
Okay, you know, I'm not letdown with myself because I'm not
doing that thing.
I just realized I don't want tomake the sacrifices I need to
do to get to that thing andtherefore I'm happier where I'm
at now because I have thoughtabout it that way and so I think
the book does.
You know it has a ton of otherthings like that, but I totally
agree and I think there is arealism.
It's like you have to factor inas you're thinking about what
(26:39):
can you do before you apply,based on your education, for a
lot of different careers androles, based on your location or
lack of education, Lack ofeducation, right yeah lack of
education or lack of education,your location in the world, like
where are you right now?
Some of the options might noteven be there for you, and I
(27:00):
think all this to say.
You know, as we kind of talkabout it, it kind of sounds like
we're being downers, especiallyfor those freshers out there.
But it's more about beingrealistic.
Not that you shouldn't shootfor the stars and live your
dreams.
If that's truly the only thingthat's going to make you happy,
like you should go do that.
But just think about thesacrifices and the consequences,
both positive and negative, ofwhat it's going to take to get
(27:22):
there.
Think about the journey thatmost people take to get where
you want.
Is that something you reallywant to do?
And if the answer is still yes,like please, by all means, go
do that thing.
This is not about crushingdreams.
But for those people who realize, yeah, I like the idea of the
thing, I don't like the idea ofbeing a starving artist for 20
years to get to the thing, likeI want to have a family, I want
to be able to, you know, live apretty comfortable life, like
(27:44):
all those things.
It's like you have to factorthat into your decision when you
choose, what do I really wantto do?
And so I think a lot of thepeople like Bruce mentioned
where it's like everybody has towork.
I think we have to think aboutfrom the beginning what are your
motivations Like, what are yourinterests and how does that
(28:07):
kind of intersect with, maybe,where you want to look for jobs,
either at a certain location,certain company, whatever it is,
or you know, in a certain fieldwhere you're like I don't
really care about the company, Ijust really like doing this one
specific function.
So I think it's going to be areally interesting thing that we
need to think about, like howdo we break that down to help
people and guide them beforethey even just start mass
applying?
Speaker 2 (28:25):
I think one thing that we can definitely write
about and talk about here youknow, in the second chapter
we've outlined CAC, which welove CAC because it works right,
like it's one of the few thingswe've created in this podcast
that I think has really lastedthe test of time over 150 plus
episodes is culture, autonomy,challenge, compensation.
(28:45):
If, as a fresher, you canidentify the CAC that interests
you and then look at,guesstimate the alignment to the
job you want.
So like, let's say, you knowyou're a fresher and you want to
, you know, be a baker likethat's your, that's your big
dream jobs.
I want to go bake desserts, foryou know, be a baker like
that's your, that's your bigdream jobs.
I want to go bake desserts, foryou know a local dessert shop.
(29:05):
Well, you know the compensationis probably not going to be that
great right Cause you know anyservice industry food job is
just that's the way it is right.
So you have to say, like, on myCAC, compensation has to be low
.
Your autonomy is not going tobe very high either.
You're going to be baking andcreating things that are likely
on the menu for that restaurantand you got to stick to that and
(29:26):
you're gonna have to do it.
Challenge is going to be high.
Culture is going to vary basedon like you know the shop and
where you want to go.
But if you think about, likeyour CAC and what you actually
want, in alignment or even incontrast to the job of baking,
you might be able to say youknow what?
Actually I care way too muchabout money or autonomy to do
(29:47):
this job, so I need to look atthe skills I have.
I need to look at the CAC Iwant and think about other
places where I could apply thiskind of ability with the outcome
I'm seeking.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Yeah, and it doesn't need to be like months of
research but no doing simplethings like let me check out
what the average salary is forthis type of role and then, yeah
, you realize, ooh, like 40 K ayear.
What does my life look like ifI'm living off 40 K a year?
Speaker 2 (30:16):
And is that something I really?
Speaker 1 (30:17):
want and that might gear you know the perspective
that you have before you go andapply and you know, really try
to chase that dream it's.
It's going to be kind of tough,probably financially, in most
places in the United States atleast you know if you want to go
down that path and I thinkthat's where it really comes to
visualize, like, what you wantyour life to be like in the next
five years, 10 years and so on.
(30:37):
You want to, yeah, have a tonof money, be working something
that's fulfilling to whateverthe broader world or solving a
hard problem.
Do you want to just livecomfortably off a modest
paycheck but also be part of acompany that you really like,
where you work and you like thepeople around you?
It's like you have to kind ofvisualize what does that look
like for me and how is my lifegoing to change in the next five
(30:59):
to 10 years?
And then evaluate your CAC forlooking at those jobs, doing
simple searches on salary, beingable to go on blind and see
what are anonymous people in thecompany saying about the
company culture.
All that is going to helpfactor into your decision for
those roles and the companiesthat you apply to.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Yeah, and I think you made a good point too, which is
the long-term portion.
And this is what I wasn'tthinking about is, you know, as
a fresher, yes, you can find aCAC that really aligns with you,
but chances are that job is notgoing to be.
I mean, I won't say it's notgonna be great, but you know,
like you know, you and I startedas quality assurance engineers,
which is not the most desirablething, but our CAC was great at
(31:38):
that job, right.
Like you know, not everyonewants to do that job, but it has
a really nice CAC aligned to it.
You know, in the baker'sexample, maybe your long-term
goal is actually to run your ownshop and you have to start and
get the experience in a localbakery.
So factor that in.
Too Obviously, cac doesn'treally consider the long-term as
(31:58):
part of that equation, andmaybe that's something we need
to think about when it comes to,like, the initial investigation
for onboarding your career ishey, sometimes you got to shovel
crap for five years before youcan actually go off and mine for
gold.
You know, like it's just, it's a, it's a.
There's a progression curvethat has to occur and you need
to be willing to put in the time, or put up with a bad CAC score
(32:19):
to get to the dream job, plusthe CAC you're looking for.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Right, yeah, we often reference CAC as like the
current state workplacehappiness score.
We don't really look at it fromlike a what do I want my CAC to
be?
We look at it as like this isthe weight of how much I value
one thing or the other, but wedon't really look at it from
that regard of like, in fiveyears, what do I want that to be
?
And obviously that changes overtime.
(32:46):
So that's, of course, a factoris like you need to constantly
be reevaluating what you wantthat to be.
But I think it is aninteresting factor to be like.
This is these are the type ofthings I think I'm going to have
to value in five to 10 years,if this is where I'm, if this is
where I'm headed.
And so, yeah, it could be moneyrelated, it could be just
culture, or it could bechallenge, whatever it might be.
If you want to be a lifetimelearner, if you want to be a
baker, whatever it is, you'vegot to factor that in.
(33:07):
That's a really interestingpoint.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Yeah, and I think we'll have to do some more
diagnosing on that specificthing as we build this out.
And again, if this is somethingthat the listener listeners
interested in and you haveadvice that you wouldn't mind
giving us a snippet of, again wewant to give credit.
We just want to pull from allthese sources.
So it's not just Bruce andClark the talking, the talking
(33:30):
heads making this, this section.
So be sure to join the discordand put it on that channel.
If you have any ideas, yeah,what else?
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Clark.
What else in that initialsection?
Yeah, one thing you know whenit comes to applying, it can be
really disheartening.
You know, for jobs, forlocations, like it takes a lot
of effort and energy, andespecially like when you're when
you're new, getting thoserejections is hard because
you're like man, am I ever goingto get, you know, just an
(34:00):
interview.
And going back to you know the,the subtle art of not giving an
F.
It's like sometimes you knowyou have this dream idea in your
mind of like the role, thecompany and like you always are
applying for that, but at theend of the day it just might not
work out.
You know it could just be Oneyou're applying too late, they
already have somebody in mindand it's just.
(34:21):
It's okay.
If that's the case, maybe youjust need to take a stepping
stone to get there and try againlater, when the timing is
better, when you have the rightskillset or whatever it is, and
then eventually somehow youbroke through.
It may have not been exactlywhat you're hoping for, but at
(34:43):
the end of the day maybe it wasa really good move because it
got you that stepping stone toget where you want to go.
Or it was at the right company,just in a different role, and
you're starting off lower thanyou want or whatever, but all it
took was getting your foot inthe door at some place really
great and then you can figureout how to maneuver within the
company to do the thing you wantto do at that company, and so
it'd be really interesting ifanybody has any personal stories
(35:04):
around that, but I hear thatall the time of.
If you have a company that youreally love to work for,
sometimes it's more important toget your foot in the door.
It doesn't matter if theposition is the dream position
you want.
You should try to just go foranything you can get, especially
as a fresher.
Do a bunch of roles so youlearn a bunch of things, and
then you're already in thecompany, so it's much easier to
get the future role you want bymaking those connections.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
I'm thinking back to our guest episode with Monroe
and her journey on the steps shetook to get to where she is
today and just some of the waysthat she had to work through
that situation.
Like, if you have not listenedto that episode I don't know the
number off the top of my head,but I believe it's just
Interview with Monroe.
Look that up in your feed Areally great story of growth and
(35:48):
accomplishment over time andhow you can get there.
And you also just brought upClark.
If you really want to work fora company, you might just do
whatever it takes to get yourfoot in the door.
One of the lines we put in theoutline to the book is do you
want to join a cult?
And I think it is worth talkingabout that for a second,
because when we were outliningthis over Boba Tea, as Clark and
(36:11):
I often do, one of the thingswas like look, you know, you can
go work at Big Corp, like Clarkand I did.
Or you can go work for Googleat big corp.
You're going to work nine tofive, you're going to get paid
well and you're going to shutthe laptop and you're going to
go home.
You go work at Google.
You're going to show up atseven.
You're gonna have breakfastthere.
(36:31):
You're going to work yourbrains out until lunch.
You're going to have lunchthere.
You're going to work yourbrains out until dinner.
You can have dinner there.
You're going to stay afterdinner.
You're going to be there tillnine o'clock at night and you
are part of that.
I mean, they'll call it afamily, they'll call it an
ecosystem, but in reality,you're in a paid cult, right?
Like?
They want you to think like aGoogle person.
(36:52):
They want you to dress like aGoogle person.
They want you to look like aGoogle person, act like a Google
person when you are outside ofwork, those rare moments.
They want you to exhibit theGoogle energy and if that sounds
great to you, fantastic.
I think there's.
You know that's going to shinethrough in the interview process
If you apply to go to one ofthose places.
(37:12):
The passion is really a big partof getting those jobs.
They want the people Disney,apple, google they want the fans
, right, because they knowthey've got you.
They can pay you less, they canwork you more and you're going
to stay there because you lovethe company.
And like, I'm not sayingthere's anything wrong with
being a corporate shill in thisway, like, if that's what you
really want to do, go do it.
(37:33):
But I think, understanding thesacrifices that have to be made,
like you cannot go, start atone of these places and also say
, and I'm going to keep, youknow, skiing on the weekends and
I'm going to have two kids, andit's like you're going to be
miserable and it's you're notgonna be able to balance all of
those plates.
So, like the cult lifestyle isnot for everyone it's it's for
those that are truly invested inthe company.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Absolutely yeah.
A lot of bonuses to doing thattoo.
It's like it's a great name tohave in your resume.
You're probably going to besurrounded by a bunch of really
smart people all working towardsthat goal, which is it's fun.
You know, it's fun when you'reall working towards something
that you really enjoy, but youhave to make sacrifices of other
things.
And if your goal is, yeah, tostart a family and have kids
(38:17):
probably not the place you wantto immediately go to I think
it's going to be really hard tobe able to keep up there with
the expectations and the peoplearound you.
And I've also heard you know,I've worked with some people
who've worked there and I'vetalked to some people as well.
Sometimes you can find thatniche of the company where you
can kind of just lay back andrelax and not really do anything
.
It's almost like the showSilicon Valley, where they go to
(38:37):
the rooftop and people kind offorget about them.
That can happen, yeah.
So those are also a lot ofthings you have to think about.
It's like you might be able tofind that, but there's no
guarantee.
I think you know 90% of peopleare probably doing what Bruce is
saying right now, and you'vegot to be willing to understand
that, because you're going therefor a reason.
I think Amazon is anotherexample.
It's like, yeah, the culturethere is, you do nothing but
(38:58):
work.
It's results.
Like, yeah, yeah, the culturethere is, you do nothing but
work, it's results.
It's, you know, all measuredand if you're not working at
that level, you will likely becut.
And so you've got to realizeyou're there to make that
sacrifice, either for the money,for a short period of time, for
the name on your resume, likethat's all valid reasons to do
it.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
When we were in engineering, one of our friends
told me once that go look up anyNetflix engineer on LinkedIn
any one of them and guaranteeyou they will have two years or
less experience, because it's achurn and burn environment,
right Like.
You go there to get Netflix onyour resume and then you get out
as soon as humanly possiblebecause you cannot live a life
(39:41):
and work at a company like thatand be happy, right Like.
Obviously there are going to bethose, those few, that just
really thrive in thatenvironment and there's nothing
wrong with that, right?
I think again, this goes backto understanding your CAC.
There are certain people thatwant to live in that office and
they want to code and work andgrind all day and they enjoy
(40:02):
that and that's what they wantto do and they're getting paid
money to do something they enjoy.
There's nothing wrong with thatat all.
But I think you do have to takeyour realism pills and say, like
, is this what I want?
Or do I want to get paid?
Well, so I can do the hobbies Iwant to do on the weekend, so I
can have a family, so I can gokayaking or do whatever the heck
it is you like doingSomething's got to get cut.
(40:31):
You can't have it stack jobsand life, so you have to.
You have to figure out your CACand and apply for the place
that I think is going to respectwhat you want to have as an
outcome, both in in work andoutside of work.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
Yeah, I think visualization is such a powerful
tool and, to be honest with you, I'm not great at it.
But people who can likeathletes, artists, all that
stuff, like they visualize whatthey want to do, like how's the
performance going to be, howdoes it feel Like, really try to
put themselves in that mindset.
And they don't have all theanswers right, like they don't
know what's going to happen,live out there, but they know
(41:02):
what success looks like and theythink about that.
I'm like how do I do?
Amazing, and I think that issomething really important to do
when you're a fresher and Icertainly didn't do it, but I
think it is important to be likeokay, if I were to get this job
, how does it feel, you know, amI enjoying it?
And when I evaluate my CAC,like that day-to-day that I'm
walking in, is it something thatI'm going to do?
And a quick personal note islike at one point I had the
(41:25):
opportunity to join a reallygood company and one of my
mentors was basically telling meit's like sometimes, you know,
you just got to get your foot inthe door.
Maybe this is a really goodopportunity to do it, but the
role was doing more projectmanagement stuff, not product
management stuff.
And I was like, okay, let mereally think about this.
Like am I going to enjoy doingthat, even if it's at this
company for like roughly thesame pay and I'm going to have
(41:48):
to do it for a while before Iget to the thing I want?
And the answer was no.
It's like I'd much rather staydoing what I'm doing now in the
role that I'm in, then go dothat thing, even though it could
eventually lead to it so andwho knows, it's not guaranteed
If I went there and there wasnever a role doing product
management versus projectmanagement, then I might just be
stuck with that until I decidedto leave.
So it's kind of sitting downand really thinking about what
(42:11):
are the trade-offs of doing thisand I think that's a really
important tip is like visualizehow you want to feel, how you
want it to look like, how youwant your life to look like, and
then look at the opportunityand evaluate it against that.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
And you can do that Like I do want to point out,
like I literally did that in mycurrent job right Like I left a
role that for the most part Iliked in solutions marketing to
take a technical marketing job,which technical marketing is not
nearly as interesting assolutions marketing, but I knew
I could get back there and notonly did I get the title I
(42:42):
wanted, I also got the positionI wanted a year and a half later
and the team that I wanted andeverything else.
But it just took work and avisualization of what I needed
to do to accomplish that.
And then the reminding of folkslike, hey, I did all of this, I
should be here now and I am, solike you can do it.
But it's just like Clark said,you have to be willing to put in
the work and potentially dealwith things you don't want to
(43:05):
deal with to get there.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
Yeah, absolutely yeah , yeah.
These are all things that Ithink are in a form of really
nice start of this book forfreshers or people that are just
looking to make a change, Likeif someone's going just like
Monroe's story, going frommilitary to entrepreneurship to
eventually like big corporationseverybody has their own unique
path and I think this startingthis first volume, if you will
(43:27):
will be a really good guidinglight for people who are either
starting over, going intocorporations for the first time
or just being a fresher witheducation without education
doesn't matter.
It's kind of a good startingpoint for whoever's going that
direction.
But I think the broader visionis like there will be multiple
volumes of all this information,all the great people we've had
on the community itself thatcome together that will tell the
(43:47):
next chapter.
You know, beyond just your 30,60, 90 days, what's happening
next, how do I go beyond?
How do I even like prep forretiring or whatever it might be
.
I think hopefully one day we'llbuild that together by not only
just living it but also bringon really great people who have
died before us and we can makesomething really awesome that we
can share with everybody.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
Yeah, and that is the goal is to make something
that's actually we're not tryingto become billionaires on this
book, right, like?
The goal of the book is to helppeople.
So you know, that's why we callon y'all is help us help them.
If you have stories or if youthink you've heard this episode
and like, hey, I actually have areally great story, I think
it'd be great to come on thepodcast and share as a guest,
(44:28):
that's great too, like we cantake that and we can turn that
into a testimonial inside of thebook itself.
So, either way, we're going tocreate a channel inside of the
Discord.
It'll be under the CS, thepodcast sub channel directory.
It'll be all about the book andthere'll be a great place to
talk about this episode andfuture episodes where we talk
about book material, and we'llalso give updates on our status
and progress and I'm sure we'llshare some early drafts with
(44:51):
y'all as well.
But one of our goals for thisyear, we're going to get it done
one page at a time.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Yeah, it's going to be great.
I'll be honest.
Writing that one page, I waslike, okay, yeah, this book
might be shorter than I thought.
I thought that would fill up alot more pages just by rambling,
I guess not no, no, give ittime.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
Give it time.
Trust.
As someone who writes, you willbe shocked the the first bits
are the hardest and then, onceyou start getting rolling,
you'll find it's like, oh, wehave way too much we need to to
cut, cut, cut, cut, cut, cut.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
Yeah, I'm excited.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
It's all going to be really good.
Yeah, I already read your part.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
I was like, oh yeah, this is going to be awesome.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
It's going to be fun.
Yeah, I made some stylisticdecisions in the intro, so it'll
be good.
It'll be a good setup.
I'm excited for the listenerdiscord participation.
I think it's gonna be reallyfun.
We love y'all, we appreciatey'all and we hope that this is
an exciting opportunity for allof us.
So do let us know what you'rethinking in that discord.
(45:52):
You can get there by going tothe link tree.
Also, things in the discord.
We have not had a.
What do you mean?
Or is it me, or is it corporatein a minute?
Speaker 1 (46:03):
so what I need y'all to do it's been.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
It's been quiet in the discord and I think that's
partially our fault.
But what I need y'all to do iscreate a meme, either based on
this episode or the last one, oror go nuts on the uh, the
capitals correspondent, alexRestrepo episode.
Just meme that to death.
Go on.
Meme him.
He loves to be memed.
Meme that man.
Put it in the what Do you Memechannel and then go to Is it Me
(46:27):
or Is it Corporate?
If you have a corporateconfession, if you want us to
identify like completelyanonymous, if you go forward,
slash confess type in yourconfession, you'll be able to
completely anonymously submitsomething.
We'll read it out loud.
We'll diagnose whether this isa you problem or a corporate
problem.
They're really fun to talkthrough and I think it actually
helps other people realize thatwe're all in this terrible
(46:48):
corporate boat together.
So go in there and put one inthere if you got one.
Otherwise, share the pod, ratethe pod, send the pod to your
enemies, send the pod to yourfriends, send the pod to Clark.
I don't think he listens.
So we need to get it out there,clark.
What else is there?
Speaker 1 (47:04):
We're pod racing baby , you said pod so many times
that it was just stuck in myhead.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Don't say that.
Don't say that we alreadytalked about Shrek.
You know, one of my favoritescenes in any movie of all time,
like top five movie scenes evermade.
And yes, for the few people outthere who appreciate good
cinema, don't be like they'vebeen.
Her did it first.
I know been her did it first.
George Lucas did it better andhe did it with fricking pod
(47:30):
racing.
Okay, so one of the greatestscenes in cinema history.
It's perfect.
I wouldn't change a singlefricking thing, even the land
and.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
Skywalker going it's working, it's working.
That whole movie is irrelevant.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
No need for it.
Jar Jar Binks getting his facestuck in the laser beams, but
the whole movie.
Just skip it.
That movie is great.
That movie is in my top threeStar Wars movies.
I'm not ashamed to say thatit's number three but it's still
top three.
I love that movie.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
I'll be honest.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
I I love that movie.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
I'll be honest, I do love that movie too, just
because of this nostalgia.
But yeah, when you really lookback at it you're like this
didn't really need to happen.
We will.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
We're gonna do a spinoff pod that's gonna be
called corporate star warsy andclark and I are gonna re-watch
every star wars movie, includingthe tv shows, and we're gonna
do a full diagnostic on why thePhantom Menace is critically
underrated and deserves thesecond chance.
So we'll we'll have to watchall of them and do an episode on
(48:32):
each of them.
In fact, it's probablyworthwhile for us to do maybe
four episodes per movie, just sowe can really give it the time.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
We're editing all this out.
We got to cut the show.
We could not make this manycommitments.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
In fact, I'm saying screw the book.
I think Star Wars Pod soundsway more interesting.
What about you, listener?
We're going to put up a poll inthe chat.
Would you rather help us writea book, or we're going to start
a Kickstarter for Curb and StarWarsy the podcast.
We're going to change the nameof our podcast.
No, no, no.
(49:05):
We're starting a new podcast,second podcast $20 more a month.
So I'm going to go poor onpodcasts.
See another strategy.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
We just no, no.
If we convert this one, they'llnever know.
We'll just naturally transitionthem to this Star Wars podcast.
Oh, we have the listeners yeah,we already have them and they
come in.
They're gonna be like they have150 episodes.
Yeah, there's a lot of that.
Speaker 2 (49:28):
You know, like we really I gotta catch up.
And then like 20 episodes inthere, like they don't talk
about star wars on this at all.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
It's all how it works .
When do they get to the starwars?
It's really just for the seo.
That's what the star wars isfor.
Speaker 2 (49:40):
Yeah, I hate when.
I hate when things just do thatin general, like I'm gonna,
what's it?
It's um, there's a word forit's.
It's not trend jacking, it's uma clickbait, isn't it clickbait
?
Yeah, it's, it's clickbait, butthere's actually a name for
when you buy a domain or a thingso that you can launch your new
thing off of the marketingsuccess of that thing.
(50:02):
There's a word for it.
It's not hijacked, but it'slike that Big switch.
Speaker 1 (50:10):
I don't know what's happening over in that corner.
Do you hear this?
I don't hear it, but I can seeit.
Speaker 2 (50:16):
My pit boxer mix just head-butted through the door,
came to my office, stuck herface up to the window window and
is like intensity growling oh.
I guess she's so excited forcorporate Star Wars.
She's telling the world she'slike go down.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
She heard the.
She heard you talking about.
She's now coming in.
Let's get this going.
Speaker 2 (50:36):
I also agree Phantom Menace is a great movie.
Speaker 1 (50:42):
Oh, we got to end this before we make any more
promises.
This is getting out of hand.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
Good call.
Well, as always, we love youthe listener, we love you the
Clark, and I think that'severything.
As always, I'm Bruce, he'ssquirreling now.
You got him, you got me, yougot me, you got me, he got me.
Hey, you're on mute.
(51:06):
We'll see you next week.
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