April 21, 2025 • 47 mins
Navigating the delicate balance of when to share sensitive information with your team is one of leadership's greatest challenges. We explore the ethics of transparency and how to determine when to tell your team the truth about difficult organizational changes.
• Leaders must evaluate whether information directly impacts team members' personal lives
• Return-to-office mandates warrant immediate disclosure so people can make necessary arrangements
• Organizational changes not affecting your team might not need immediate sharing
• The spectrum between full transparency and withholding information requires careful navigation
• Competitive intelligence raises ethical and legal concerns requiring HR and legal consultation
• Sometimes protecting your team means not sharing information that would create unnecessary anxiety
• Creating a culture of trust involves thoughtful disclosure rather than automatic transparency
• How you handle sensitive information reflects your leadership philosophy and priorities
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
bless you.
Yeah, doesn't take.
Oh good, I'm glad.
I'm glad you accepted theblessing.
I saw you sneeze just then.
I wanted to make sure I got youI did not sneeze.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Don't let him tell you he opened mouth, sneezed
right into the camera I actuallylike to put my mic right into
my mouth when I have to sneeze.
Just give it a sneeze rightover the mic.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Boom.
I like this idea.
My fear is that I'm anaggressive sneezer and my
sneezes are almost like bites,and if the mic is in my mouth
I'm going to chomp down on Mikeduring sneeze.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
You'll chip a tooth.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
At least one, maybe two, you'll go, and I'll
probably need a new microphonetoo, giving the ginormous chop
mark that are gonna be in it.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
See, I've heard you sneeze.
My wife was telling me Isneezed too aggressively.
She was like you sneeze tooloudly, I'm like I don't know if
I can like I don't know if Ican tone it down if I hold it in
I think I think if you hold ina sneeze you're gonna have a
heart attack.
That's what I told her.
I'm like if I try to hold it in, I might think if you hold it
in a sneeze you're going to havea heart attack.
That's what I told her.
I'm like if I try to hold it in, I might die.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
It's like they used to say in kindergarten If you
sneeze, fart and burp at thesame time, you explode and you
die.
I mean it's factual, I agree.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
I heard it in kindergarten.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
So like it has to be true, like it has to be true.
My wife also told me that Isneezed too aggressively and
after hearing that, my onlyresponse was sneeze with more
aggressive aggression,intentionally.
So now I have violent sneezes.
I just I, I put my heart andsoul.
I mean you gotta think if, if,if you're sneezing, it's because
your body wants to expelsomething, either in, you know,
(01:42):
your nasal cavity or your throator whatever.
Like I mean, why not put mywhole being into it?
Like, if I'm going to dosomething, I'm going to whole
ass it.
I'm going to whole ass mysneezes and I'm going to get
whatever's in there out of there.
And uh, I do.
I put my entire effort my, mysoul leaves my body when I
sneeze and I have to grab it andshove it back in.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Otherwise, you know, I'll be a husk like starts
exiting and you're justliterally grabbing it, throwing
it back into your body.
Yeah, I try to get a reallyloud tail to it, you know, like
the initial sneeze, but then youjust like, let it rip for a
while you know, oh you, you havea lingering.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
It's almost like an echo or reverb.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Yeah, you put a little reverb on the sneeze just
on the end.
You just got to keep it goinglike it's an echo I'm a cannon,
I'm all about that.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Like just comes out, duck in as much as you can and
then blast it.
It's short, but it's gonna makeyou jump right like you're.
You're gonna be scared when mynose decides to blow you know
it's a weird thought you onlyget so many.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
You only get so many sneezes throughout your whole
entire life.
Every single thing you do is acountdown until you just get no
more.
So you might as well make themost of it.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Now I don't like this .
I don't like this at all.
But you can.
I mean, have you ever actuallysniffed pepper?
No, have you ever just taken alittle thing?
So I'm not the guy who's goinginto the restaurant, you know,
grabbing the shaker.
He's walking up sniffing it.
Be like some good pepper inhere, but like I, I once had
like really fine pepper on thetable and like I was, you know,
(03:17):
putting it on my, my meal and itwas just so dusty that it got
in my nose and I actuallystarted.
I could not stop sneezingbecause the pepper.
So you, I mean, yes, you'retechnically correct, but if you
wanted to enjoy more sneezes,the pepper trick does work,
especially when it's super fine.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
I've never heard of someone saying this before and
you never will again there'ssomething euphoric about like
you step outside and you juststare up at the sun.
You know I'm talking about.
All squinty eyed and you juststare up at the sun.
You know what I'm talking aboutAll squinty eyed and you're
just trying to get that sneezeout and just gets it out of you
Like it feels so good, feels sogood.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
I think the sun sneezes are great, because
usually when you sneeze with thesun you get a little tear duct
action too.
You get a little cry.
I love a good little crybecause it's like, ooh, my eyes
are now moist.
I love a good little crybecause it's like, ooh, my eyes
are now moist.
You know I might have to wipeaway a little residue, but it's
going to.
You know it's going to push outsome crud with it.
Like, let's go, I'm just goingto go stare at the sun for five
(04:17):
minutes every day, get my sneezeon and need new eyes in less
than a year.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
All right.
Well, that was a great episodeand that's what we get to talk
about sneezing today.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Hope you guys enjoyed it.
Me too.
I feel like we really coveredsome ground today.
What's the etiquette?
Welcome back to CorporateStrategy Podcast.
Could have been an email.
I'm Bruce.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
I'm Clark.
What's the etiquette when youdo it at work?
Do you sneeze Like if you're ina room with a bunch of people?
Oh, absolutely sneeze like ifyou're in a room with a bunch of
people.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Just let it rip just as loud as normal.
I'm not going to suppress that.
Oh yeah, I expect the blessings.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah, you want them.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
You got to get those when you can you want blessings?
I'm scoping the room foratheists.
Who's going to give me theGesundheit?
Who's going to give me theblessings?
I want to know who's theatheists in here, tight, and
who's going to give me theblessings?
I want to know who's theatheists in here.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
I need to know.
I'm doing a search.
This is a pro tip on how you'reable to oust your co-workers
and categorize them Christian,not Christian, Christian
atheists.
I'm really looking.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
You know, I want to know.
I got to suss out the religiouspreferences of my team members,
and sometimes I fake sneeze todo it too.
I really want to get to thebottom of this, like oh, members
, and sometimes I fake sneeze todo it too.
I really want to get to thebottom of this, like, oh, do you
support old jc?
Have you heard a good word?
I'm gonna hand them a bible.
If they don't bless me, I givethem a bible that I just have in
(05:36):
the back of my pocket, just orhanging around, you gotta get a
pamphlet verses.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
We've got the pamphlet for them.
This is actually depending whatyou're looking for in a company
.
In the interview you shouldsneeze just to see if you get a
bless you or not, and that ishow you know whether to take the
job.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Welcome to Christ Strategy, Giving you all the
tips on how to get a Christianin the workplace, Because we
know in this day and age youdon't want to work anywhere
where you don't get a Christianin the workplace, Because we
know in this day and age youdon't want to work anywhere
where you don't get a bless you.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
I am absolutely every can that I screen.
Now I'm sneezing just to makesure I understand what's their
religious preference.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
This is a good plan?
Yeah, no, this is not.
And this is an HR friendly wayto do it, because you know you
know them, HR reps.
They're always looking to getyou Because they don't want you
to be Christian at work.
They're looking to get you.
And this is how you can tell.
You can test it Sneeze in frontof your HR reps, see if you get
a bless you.
That's how you know you can tellthem the truth or not.
Yeah, and this is the firsttime someone's ever listened to
(06:41):
this podcast.
Welcome, I'm not gonna.
I'm not gonna clarify anything,we just said it's 100.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Serious.
This is how we actually are.
This is actually exactly how weare.
Every single episode.
There's never any value, exceptfor these weird, obscure tips
on how to prove the religiouspreference of people around you
or future companies you thatmight employ you we're called
corporate and that's a ruse.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
That's a ruse to fool big corporate into thinking
we're providing value.
This has always been Christianstrategy, the religion that
could have been a pamphlet.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
It is kind of a pamphlet.
Hey, okay, yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Hey, vibe, check, clark, how you doing.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Well, I really wanted to talk about sneezing for
another five minutes, but Iguess we can do the vibe check.
Yeah, we can do that.
Biggies up Doing pretty good.
Doing pretty good.
How was this week?
I'm thinking, thinking throughmy head, how this week has been
Not bad.
I feel like it's been a balanceof like meetings but also focus
(07:46):
time pretty productive, I'd say.
I uh, my whole entire I wouldsay backlog of chats and emails
and everything has stayed undercontrol and even when fires have
come in, you've been able tosquelch them because like no, no
fire, we're putting it out,we're handling it.
So I feel like it's been prettygood overall what about you?
Speaker 1 (08:06):
nice, I love that it's been.
It's been a little chaoticsomething because next week's
our big, big event we do everyyear and I'll be in san diego
for that, so getting ready forthat, but on the whole, I feel
like we're ahead of the game,which is rare, and I'm not like
yeah, I've been on meetings allday, every day, uh, with the
(08:29):
exception of yesterday, andthat's fine.
I expect that for this week,and then the week after the week
, when I get back from theconference, my calendar is 50%
full.
So I'm doing good, I'm doingjust dandy.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
That's awesome.
Do you get well?
Since you're a startup, do youget a lot of email?
Is everyone at the conference?
Speaker 1 (08:55):
if this is your big event, no, Only 10 special
representatives are sent toreally showcase who we are as a
company, and I am always one ofthem.
So yeah, I will be gettingemail, I will be getting asked
to do things while I'm there and, in all honesty, I'm hoping
(09:17):
this year is my opportunity tonot be at the booth working all
day and I can actually step awayand work on some other projects
, because we have goodrepresentation now.
It doesn't always have to bethe Bruce show, so I'm hopeful
we'll do a check back in and seeif that remains true.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
I always think it's like the balance between some
people just really like to be inthe limelight of the conference
.
You know that really want to beup front.
You know, kind of the face ofyour booth or whatever it is
sounds like you're not that guy.
You're okay.
Fade into the background, belike I'm here to support I
absolutely am.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Well, it's.
It's weird because I've learnedthat being the face of a thing
and being like that superstarcan be a little bit of a career
limiting move.
You have to let other peopletake that limelight, take the
spotlight, so you can becomemore strategic, and it's a.
It's a hard lesson that I'velearned as I now try and rip
(10:14):
this bandaid off and do strategyand do less of the evangelism
at the same time.
But the problem is everyonejust learns to rely on you, Like
I don't have to.
I don't have to pull anyoneelse as long as I can pull Bruce
and he can do this thing.
It's put myself in a bit of apickle, but I'm going to.
I'm going to unpickle myselflike a body.
(10:35):
It's been pulled out of a bog.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
I don't think you can unpickle something Like when
something's pickled, it'spickled forever right, I forever
right.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
I'm gonna unpickle myself, squeeze the vinegar
right out, right out, uh, themolecular level.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go in there like
ant-man and I'm gonna punchevery vinegar molecule I see oh,
yeah, yeah, I like that that'swhat I do, so let me do it's a
great, I'm gonna get myself outof this pickle it is interesting
, like I think if you're not inthe leadership ranks, the, if
you're like an individualcontributor, and you see someone
(11:09):
at a booth or whatever gettingall the attention, like you feel
like that's the guy, that's thegal, who's like the person of
the company and like they arethe ones who are going to get
the promotions and all the gloryand everything else.
And then, as you get more seniorin your career, you realize,
yeah, they're not going to makeit much further than this and if
(11:29):
you really want to get up,these are the activities you
need to be doing.
It is really interestingbecause I used to think that too
, like as I was growing mycareer, and then over time I've
realized like it's not about thelimelight, it's about sitting
back and guiding the strategyand showing that your team is
executing really, really well.
That's what makes you a strongleader.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Exactly, you need to be able to do it.
So, like it is important thatyou can be that guy because,
like you still have to do pressengagements, you still have to
be able to get up on stage andtalk and deliver presentations
and all that, but like thatcan't be all you are.
You have to show there's moreto it than just being mr popular
.
So, uh, yeah, I'm in, I'm inthe phase of unbecoming mr
(12:13):
popular and I'm cool with it.
I'm really cool with it.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Good, for you and your team sounds like they're
doing.
They're crushing it.
People are doing great they are.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
I love them.
Love them to death for you.
Hey, speaking of my team, Igotta I got a good topic for us
today.
Ooh, when do you tell the truth?
When do you do it?
And you already know where I'mgoing with this, but I'm going
to give you an example so ourlisteners know too.
Right, you've been toldsomething by upper management.
(12:41):
Maybe you've heard somethingthrough the grapevine and you
know this is going to impactyour team.
When they hear it, they willhear it.
The question is when and fromwhom?
When do you, clark, step in andsay you know what?
I'm going to beat this to thepunch.
I want to be the one to tell myteam this news and I'm just
(13:02):
going to say look, you didn'thear this from me, but sneezing
is no longer allowed in theworkplace.
It's a fireable offense, andI'd rather you hear this from me
than from the big wigs up atopbecause they hate old JC.
But that's, that's where we'reat as a company.
When do you do it, clark?
When do you tell?
Speaker 2 (13:23):
the truth.
When do you implement Christianstrategy and just tell the
truth it's in the commandments,for goodness sakes.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Yeah, no, I think it's like in the you know, there
was a verse that literally saystell the truth, bro, really do
it.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Yeah, Jesus said that If you use the New
International Version it's brah,but you were close.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
How could I forget Much better version to pull your
Jesus quotes from?
How could I forget?
Thank you, Clark, for bringingthat You're welcome.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Oh, I'm dying.
This is actually really funny.
It's even funnier when you saythis is really funny, so you
guys are welcome.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Yeah, this is a trick .
Now I know when to laugh.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Thank you, yeah, I've got to tell you just to make
sure you do it.
Yeah, this is a tough onebecause it's so contextual of,
like, what is the impact?
Is it layoffs?
Is it you know moving?
Is it calling everybody who wasremote back to the office?
Is it you know a new directionthe company is taking?
(14:33):
Is it you're getting acquired?
Is it the company's folding?
Like there's so many differentthings that, as a leader, you'll
get looped into because youneed to start, like prepping the
logistics of whatever it is.
And I think the most humanthing is like, if you bring it
down to human level, you have toprep your team for the impact
(14:54):
that's coming and that's theright thing to do.
It's not the easiest thing todo, but that's the right thing
to do.
Is like maybe you're not sayingwhat's going to happen, but
you're going to say it or hintat it.
And a couple of examples wouldbe like you know, if the
company's about to fold, it'slike man, you're so great, like
(15:16):
I think you could do really wellelsewhere.
Like starting to drop thosehints, which it's tough because
they can't like ask you, youcan't say what's coming.
Even if they ask you, it's likeI don't know.
But I think you should alwaysbe prepared and always be
looking just to see what else isout there, because you're so
great and so you kind of have tolie, but in the direction of
(15:37):
where it's going to be betterfor them as a person, if that
makes sense.
Yeah, that's my perspective.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
But it's so contextual it's hard.
It's very contextual and thetough thing for me is one you
have to evaluate.
If I tell my whole team this,who are they going to tell?
Right, because secrets travel,news travels.
The grapevine exists for areason and it's to make wine for
(16:05):
jesus to turn to water.
And if you don't tell them,they may hear it from someone
else.
And then they'll come to youand say did you know this?
And if you say yes, thenthey're like why didn't you tell
me?
Don't you trust?
Trust me, right?
Like there is a whole, there isa whole culture game that is
played with secrets andinformation.
And I like to err on the sideof who's the primary source.
(16:29):
So if someone tells mesomething and they're the
primary source, then I know noone else knows this unless that
person has told other people.
And it's probably for the bestthat I don't share it broadly.
But if, if it is a hey, just soyou know we're talking about
doing X, like I know, okay,other teams know this, other
(16:50):
people know this, it's notbroadly announced.
If it impacts my team in someway, shape or form, they, they
probably will hear it fromsomeone else.
So there's no harm in metelling them and like I'm doing
this sort of mental math toevaluate like, okay, is it my,
is my team the leaker, or cananother team be the leaker?
And if it's, if it's fair game,I'm just going to tell them
(17:11):
because I'd much rather it comefrom me than from someone else.
And that's.
That's the gymnastics I gothrough when I do share
information, because I don'tever want to be the person
that's like, oh well, we can'ttrust Bruce.
Loose lips, sink ships.
But same time I don't want tobe the well, we can't trust
Bruce.
He's a corporate bootlicker andhe doesn't tell anyone anything
(17:34):
.
So I I try to straddle it.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Yeah, oh my goodness, do you feel like?
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Yeah, oh, my goodness , do you feel like you feel like
your team is afraid to ask yousometimes if a leak is true,
share uh in in good faith thatin telling them this will help
them prepare for whatever thenews is going to bring Right?
Like I don't just do it to dolike I'm not dishing a dish.
I usually it's because, like,we need to start thinking about
(18:13):
what this means for our product,for our company, for our
customers, for, like, whateverit is, like there's going to be
a cause and there's an effect,and like I want us thinking more
about the effect and the cause,because once that news drops,
everyone's so focused on theimmediate reaction of it they're
not able to think long-term.
Like I want to be past thatphase.
I want to be in the solvingphase, not the oh no, what do we
(18:37):
do?
Like we don't worry, we knowwhat to do.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
We've already been thinking about this.
Yeah, I think I'm pretty luckyin the organization I'm in right
now that the big boss is verytransparent, as much and
probably more than they shouldbe, because that's the type of
culture they want to build inour big organization, and I
really appreciate that becauseit fosters a sense of like.
(19:05):
Okay, I trust that they areexposing to me is probably more
than I need to know or shouldknow, just to be transparent.
And so we're pretty lucky inthat sense that the big boss is
very, very open and honest and,you know, transparent.
And there's pros and cons tobeing that way, because it
(19:26):
causes a lot of swirl sometimesbecause, like you said, like the
grapevine happens and thenpeople start speculating and
they wonder the impact.
And the truth of the matter is,even the big boss doesn't have
the answers.
They're just letting us know tosay this is going to likely
happen.
I don't know when, I don't knowwhat the impacts are, but I
wanted you to know so you can atleast know like and be
(19:47):
transparent.
It's going to happen and we'regonna do our best to put
together a plan, but we don'thave all the answers.
And I love that transparencybecause it's just it makes them
feel like a human.
It makes me feel like I can justconnect with the boss and be
like okay, feel like a human.
It makes me feel like I canjust connect with the boss and
be like okay, you know, Iappreciate that.
And like you're a human too.
You don't have all the answers,so it's very like humbling to
be a part of an organizationlike this.
(20:07):
But I also have been on theopposite end of that spectrum,
where you hear nothing, it'sradio, silent, and then, like
one day, packages just show upon people's desks and envelopes
and it's like well, we just laidoff 20% of the workforce.
Today and everybody meet in abig conference room for the
survivors and this is what we'redoing today.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
And in those moments it's like you have to think had
they just given people a hint orlike an inkling?
Yeah, you know, just everyoneshould be updating their resume,
kind of thing, like it's goodpractice, right.
Like you never know what'sgoing to happen.
I'm not saying anything's goingto happen, I'm just saying
there's a vibe.
We don't know what the nextquarter is going to hold.
(20:45):
Maybe just update your resumeIf you, if you have contacts out
there, see what's out there.
Let's say in, jump, just sayinglike times are rocky right now,
like read, read the room, feelthe weather, check the
temperature.
What have you Like?
I feel like that's so muchbetter than you're gone.
(21:06):
You're laid off, you know, andlike it's like a complete and
total shock to everybody.
But someone did know andsomeone chose not to share
because those things can't justhappen overnight.
They do take managerial andleadership uh input there's.
There's discussions that inputthere's discussions that happen.
There's trades that happen.
Layoffs are a dirty, disgustingthing where you are bargaining
(21:30):
hey, I want to keep my team.
Okay, well, if you keep yourteam, then they have to give up
somebody.
Okay, well, that's how it'sdone, absolutely it's done.
So I think a good manager wouldat least try and do something
for their team to ensure thatyou know they land Okay, if
they're not going to stay at thecompany.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Right, yeah, those, those times are so, so rocking.
You have to evaluate, like toyour point, what's more
disruptive.
You start getting people prepmonths ahead and then
everybody's speculating oh shoot, like what is the, what's the
stock?
Yeah, it's just gonna, it'sgonna take the priority.
Like imagine you are in thatdire situation as a business.
(22:10):
You know the next quarter couldmake or break you and you have
to decide do I keep everyonefocused so that we make it, or
do I look out for all of themand say it's rocky right now and
like take that as you will andjust be prepared for anything
that could happen?
It's like you, it's all abouthow you position.
It's like listen, as a company,like we need to pull together
(22:32):
now and that's the only waywe're going to make it through
this next quarter.
I think it's all aboutpositioning and messaging.
I think you can figure that outfrom a business standpoint to
keep everybody if youcommunicate it properly
everybody focused on the rightgoal.
But if you have created aculture where it's not
transparent layoffs havehappened before and now you're
(22:54):
asking an unmotivated team andorganization to now rally behind
you because this could make orbreak the company and you just
laid off 20% of the workforcelast month out of nowhere.
It's like no one is going tojoin you on that.
People are just going to beprepping.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Yep, and and this is why it's not black and white,
right, like you, you receive apiece of information does not
mean, well, let me go spin up ameeting and tell my team about
it.
Like, gotta tell them right now.
It's like you can sit on thisstuff.
Uh, and I think you should.
You should definitely sit on it.
You should never just reactright away If you receive
(23:32):
something and say, well, firstorder of business is let me go
tell Clark everything.
No, like, think through, isthis, is this a short term thing
or a longterm thing?
Like, if it's longterm, then itprobably does no good to start
them spinning and worrying andthinking about it If it's not
going to impact them for sixmonths, maybe three months since
we have that conversation,maybe four months since we have
(23:53):
that conversation.
Maybe, if it's looking bad,like you say, okay, well, this
was contingent on hittingcertain KPIs or goals, we're not
hitting those.
I think it's time I sit downand tell my team because I care
about them.
It's time to have thatconversation and it cannot just
be a yes or no.
It has to be like there's alittle bit of math, planning,
(24:15):
emotional checking that goesinto this.
Because on the other side, ifit is just black and white, yeah
, like yeah, you could tell themright away, or no, you don't
ever tell them.
Your morale is tanked after that, like to your point.
You tell them too early andit's like well, we're never
gonna hit that goal anyway now,because everyone's worried,
everyone's, everyone's sofocused on themselves.
(24:36):
They're not focused on thecompany anymore.
It was a fool's errand.
We can't hit this goal.
On the other side, you don'ttell them, you play by the rules
of corporate and 25 of thecompany still gets laid off for
whatever reason.
Now your team's like I don'twant to stay here.
Like we just busted our buttsfor the last six months and we
(24:57):
didn't hit a goal we didn't knowabout, and now 25% of the
team's gone.
I'm gonna start updating myresume.
I'm gonna get out of here,cause I'm gonna.
I could be next Like yourmorale is shot forevermore and I
don't know if you can even pullout of that unless leadership
cycles Like that's.
When you see that leadershipcycle happen, people might get
reinvigorated, like, okay, well,at least those maniacs are gone
.
I'm not going to deal with thepsychopathic cuts, but it can't
(25:20):
be one or the other.
I think it definitely has to bean evaluation at all times
about information sharing.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Yeah, I agree, I've got a tough one for you.
Okay, the government reductionsthat have happened, elon Musk
sending out the no, or whoeverdoes whatever, reply back to
this email by Friday, or or getcut.
(25:47):
I mean, in one way that'stransparent.
It's like very honest.
Hey, you can either take thepackage and you can leave, or
you reply back to this note andshow that you're staying.
If you don't reply at all, likeI'm assuming, you're leaving in
a lot of ways that's like this.
Yeah, I know right, it just, itjust popped.
I had a totally differentdirection I was going to go and
then this came my brain of likeis that actually good, because
(26:07):
it's very transparent and honestand they gave them options, or
is it bad?
Speaker 1 (26:12):
I mean the funny thing about all of this, and
I've had this conversation withpeople and like I, just high,
high level, okay, let's're.
Like I, just high, high level,okay, let's.
Before I answer your question,high level, there's so much
waste and bureaucracy and redtape.
We have to fix it.
As American hat on.
(26:33):
As an American like we have tofix what is broken.
You cannot let broken thingsstay broken.
Now are the ones who are chosento go fix it the right ones,
like you know, if you had abusted water pipe in your house,
do you call a plumber or do youcall the local billionaire who
(26:56):
no longer needs to work to makemoney to come fix your problem?
Like I might go with someonewho's like a little more, I
don't know, close to the closeto the issue itself, someone I
know who like okay, you've fixedbroken pipes before.
I'm going to trust you to comein and fix my broken pipe.
Not someone who's like well,you buy companies and make money
(27:17):
off them.
Why?
Why are you the one who'scoming in to fix the problem?
Now to your question.
I love it because one it showsyou the exact kind of leadership
they are right Like.
This is micromanagement.
Do you want to stay working ina job even if it's for the
(27:38):
government, where you're beingmicromanaged by someone who's
not a plumber?
Like here's a great out for you.
You can.
You can take your leave, getyour package, go and they're
forced to pay you because it'sgovernment benefits.
Like this is not the worst casescenario for those people and
with government experience, youcan go work, you can go
independent, go into the privatesector and make probably twice
as much money.
So, yeah, it's not bad for themand it is a level of
(28:02):
transparency that I would want,especially when I'm not dealing
with a plumber.
You know what I'm saying.
Like.
It's like, if we're going todeal with this type of
personality, please betransparent so I can make an
executive decision for myself.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Yeah, but I mean cause they?
Speaker 1 (28:16):
could have gone a different direction.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
They could have gone a different direction.
They could have just said we'recutting 20%.
Your manager will tell you byFriday, whether you made the cut
or not.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
That could have happened.
And then you're just like well,what do I do?
Speaker 2 (28:28):
What do I do?
And you're like okay, like Iguess, like I'm here and I may
or may not be cut and I couldalso resign, and like I'm
probably to do that, like thatwould have been worse.
So I actually think the waythat they did it in some
positive is like at least youknow, the people that said yes
are willing to stay, you'regetting the right people on the
bus is like the positive of that.
(28:49):
No, because they had an out,they had like six months
severance or something crazylike that.
And I know someone close to mewho took it and they were like
yeah it was not me.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Yeah, I would take the time off.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
I was going to leave anyway, Taking six months off of
the government right now soundslike a great idea.
Just pro tip if you're in thegovernment.
The cynical part of me says thereason they actually did it is
because they have no friggingclue who's actually valuable
freaking clue who's actuallyvaluable.
And if they just did like a 25%cut, they would probably they
(29:28):
would somehow get rid of everysingle valuable employee the
government has and all thatwould be left is the other 80%
of the Pareto principle and itwould just be like, well, if you
thought we weren't functionalbefore, wait till you see us now
.
Like, I think the email it doestwo things.
One, it gets rid of people whoare kind of checked out, looking
for a paycheck, don't want towork under this regime.
So yes, it is a little bit ofself-filtration.
And two, the people that wantto stay are going to work under
(29:52):
this regime, good, bad orotherwise, like they're going to
work and they know they'regoing to be under this sort of
orwellian level of observation.
So there is a little bit of asilver lining there, like I
think.
I think it could be helpful forthem to stay because they kind
of know what they're gettinginto.
But right, this is all me justsuspecting things without any
(30:13):
actual insight into thesituation.
Uh, but it's a, it's a.
It feels like a good feeling.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
I, I feel like I'm I'm not wrong yeah, I like not
to get political, but it justseems so relevant to this.
They went about it a way thatthey were capable of doing,
which was positive in some ways,but also probably had a lot of
negativity associated with ittoo, which I can totally
understand.
So there's pros and cons.
I got rapid fire ones for you.
(30:39):
I want to hear whether you tellyour team yes.
So there's pros and cons.
I got rapid fire ones for you,yeah, I want to hear whether you
tell your team yes or you don'ttell your team.
Okay, you ready.
No, okay, return to officeFully remote to hybrid.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Done deal, not a discussion.
This is just mandate, it'smandate.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
You got to move.
If you have to move, I tellthem right away.
Yeah, I'm right away.
So this comes down and they sayhey Bruce, three days in the
office, it's going to start intwo months.
Like, we don't know thelogistics, we don't know if we
can offer these people to moveor not.
Uh, but we'll tell you when.
You should tell your team.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
I tell them right away, because I don't know if
they need to start looking atbabysitters, you know, I don't
know if they need to startlooking for, you know, care for
their family members.
Like there's so much time thathas been redeemed by remote work
, I tell them right away, like Idon't want them to be caught
saying, if I'd known just a bitearlier, I could have, I could
have actually made this work,right.
And there's the other side.
(31:39):
It's like there's no way thisis going to work.
So get your best foot forward.
They're going to go anyway,right.
If they're not going to come in, they're not going to come in.
So get them out now, go get the.
Go get a job now, versus whenthe the the hammer comes down.
So that's an easy one.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
I agree with that one Organizational change that does
not directly impact your team.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
No.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
I don't tell them, don't let them know.
You just let it happen, youfind out hey, Bruce, we're
changing this whole departmentand you guys work with them.
They're not going to do whatyou do anymore.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Right, I mean, if it's going to impact how they
work, maybe, but if it doesn'timpact how they like.
So you know, if it's marketingand the R and D team is the one
that's getting reorg, I don'tsay anything.
That's not my problem.
Like I'm going to pretend likeI don't know about it.
Yeah, like it's like I don'twant to worry about it.
(32:32):
Nor should that.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Yeah, it's no direct impact.
It's just water cooler talk andin those cases.
I kind of do the same thing belike oh, wow like I have done
that because what's?
I think individuals will getcaught up in those details and
at the end of the day, itdoesn't really impact you.
So in those cases I'm likethere's not a lot of points in
me wasting time talking aboutyeah, if they said like did you
(32:55):
know this?
Speaker 1 (32:56):
I would say yes, and I did not care.
Uh, so that's the way I woulddo.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
It didn't feel like passing it along like it's like
if someone asks because youprobably you probably get this
too like things are happening,someone will ask you.
They'll come to you and be likeyes you know, is this happening
and like in those cases, you,you, like.
I always say like I don't knowif it is exactly, but this is
what I've heard, like I try tobe transparent as I can, but
sometimes you're not supposed tosay anything.
(33:22):
But if someone directly askedme, or they asked me if I knew,
then I'll typically tell themthe truth yeah, yeah, I mean, if
they asked me, I would.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
I would.
In that scenario, I would tellthem the truth and say I just
didn't, I don't think it'simportant for us and that's why
I didn't bring it up yeah,organizational change that
affects team.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
But I'm going to give you the context because I think
, yeah, obviously, if it doesdirectly lay off people or
whatever, yeah sure, let's sayyou're taking on a new product
line into your team, so you'regoing to take on something brand
new with new headcount probablyno, probably no.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
And here's why that's an opportunity, I think,
announced in the rightenvironment, that could be
really exciting and that couldactually invigorate people like,
oh cool, this is something theywere thinking about doing, like
they're going to roll it out.
Everyone finds out at the sametime they can share in the
excitement of the new product orshare ideas.
Like that way, you don't havesomeone who knows more than
someone else in the excitementof the new product, or share
(34:21):
ideas.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Like that way, you don't have someone who knows
more than someone else in theroom and no one feels left out
yeah, yeah, it's alwaysinteresting for this one because
we recently had something likethis happen, where a position
was announced and no one thatcould be promoted into that role
was notified ahead of time.
It was just posted externallyand that was actually seen as
(34:43):
negative from a few of thepeople I talked to were like
well, I wasn't aware, like Iwasn't asked, it was just posted
and now like I got to go likeapply if I'm interested.
So sometimes it can be seen asa negative.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Yeah, yeah, in that case absolutely.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
If I know about a role that one of my teammates
could go for, I will tell themas soon as I know for sure.
Yeah, yeah, okay, I think thelast one I have for you, I think
this will be the last one, um,influential, like leader, like
way up there CEO, senior, vicepresident, whatever is leaving
and you know, about it.
You know they're leaving.
Everybody loves this person.
They're kind of the voice ofthe company.
Do you tell them?
Speaker 1 (35:36):
It doesn't impact your team.
Really, this one feels like theprevious one with the project,
where it's almost better not toso everyone can react at the
same time.
Yeah, because again you don'twant to create that environment
where it's like oh well, youknow, dave always knows, let's
go talk to dave because hismanager tells him everything.
Like let's go, like you don'twant, you don't want to create,
(35:57):
or dave's a leaky pipe and likejust loves telling people stuff.
Anyway, it's like if I, if Itell Dave, hey, this leader's
going, then they're just gonnago tell everybody and the
announcements like it's ruinedright, like there is a reason.
Sometimes things like this arekept close to the vest and again
, like if it doesn't impact themand their productivity or their
(36:18):
personal life, the reluctancyfor me to share it goes down.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yeah, yeah, this one's tough because it's like
some people stick around forcertain leaders and them leaving
could be a detractor for themwanting to stay, because they're
like, oh man, I really thoughtthey were leading us in the
right direction and now they'releaving.
But to your point, it's likeI've had situations like that
come up, where people, the rumormill starts and people will be,
(36:45):
like, oh, did you hear thisperson's leaving and it's
because they got snubbed orbecause of this?
like no man, they're justretiring, and so like I've had
that come to me before and I'mjust like, yeah, you know, I
heard there could be somechanges and I answer it very PC.
But at the end of the day ourleaders are going to set us up
for success and we're going tofind the right person to be in
the role, whether it's them orsomeone else.
I don't answer it, but Ireassure them we're going to be
(37:08):
all right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
I got one for you.
All right hit me.
You have learned a piece ofcompetitive intelligence that
you should not have learnedabout an external thing that
benefits your team if you tellthem, but legally you probably
shouldn't.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Oh, this is so tough.
Yeah, this goes back to, likeyou probably remember, like
ethics and computer science.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Remember, I live this .
I live this like a week ago.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
This is like ethics and computer science Like
everyone just like, oh who cares?
Like it doesn't matter, it'llnever happen.
Like who cares?
But this stuff is real and ifyou're like a shareholder or
you're a decision maker, likeyou can commit things like tax
fraud and copyright infringementand things like that.
Like if you are privy toinformation and like that can be
(38:02):
legal action that can put yourbutt in jail.
So you really got to be carefulhere.
It's tough.
It's tough Cause like you wantto take advantage of the
situation.
But in this case, if I know,like legally this is an issue, I
don't tell my team and, to behonest with you, I probably go
(38:22):
talk to HR and legal and be like, hey, I'm privy to information
that I shouldn't be and I got itthrough a source that shouldn't
have told me and I'm legallyobligated to tell you.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Now I have literally seen people who have come back
with slides like nda slides fromcompetitors that have been left
on the table after a salesdiscussion, just like oh yeah,
we know competitor x's entireroadmap because they left their
slides in the table.
Printouts of the slidesprintouts yeah, like you should
(39:00):
not.
It's non-disclosure, you shouldnot not have that.
But that's really valuable as acompany for, like, making
decisions.
Um, I think, if I and I don't Idon't know the legal ins and
outs of this Right, and likeit's important, like you can
talk to your legal team aboutthis too.
Like absolutely go to yourlegal team and say, hey, this
(39:21):
could really benefit us if we doa diagnostics on this.
Share this with some folks.
You know, maybe it's just asmall share, but like I do think
it's worth not just keeping itto yourself, talk to your
leaders, talk to your legal,because it can benefit your
company.
And if the other company's sostupid as to print out slides
and leave them on a table, likemaybe they're asking for it, you
know.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
Yeah, yeah, that's like the hardest thing.
It's like if if it.
If somebody is so irresponsiblethat they do something like
this.
It's almost like dude.
Come on, like really.
I found these slides.
Would, they do it to you.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
Would they do it to you?
Speaker 2 (39:58):
Yeah, yeah, that's always so hard.
I think, like human wise andethically and legally wise for
you one go straight to hr andlegal, do not incriminate other
people.
Yes, you cannot expose thesecret until you know it's
legally safe to do so, becausethen, like, potentially, like
let's say it is something thatis nda or they're like yeah,
(40:21):
that's like a really big secret.
We have to let you go, likeimmediately.
That could happen theoretically,and if you, what they do is
they do their due diligence isillegal in HR team and they will
find out who did you talk to?
And you're going to have to saynames.
When you say names, they'regoing to fire those people too
and put you under NDA, and so,like that is the biggest thing
(40:42):
Get permission first, do notincriminate others, and if they
say it's okay, then do it.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Yeah, this is where, if you take an ethics training
as part of your corporate, justenablement pay close attention
to those sections on legal insand outs of things Because, yes,
it can play in your favor, butalso it can be devastating.
So pay close attention to whatyour policies are, talk to legal
(41:10):
, talk to your leadership.
Do not just go disclosingthings willy nilly.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
Yeah, and like you take those, you kind of just
gloss over, like that's not thatimportant, whatever, like how
do you like what if you'rebribing a government official?
And then like, if you reallythink about it, I don't know why
they don't do this Likepractical terms, like oh, we're
at a media event and there's abusiness representative or
there's somebody from thegovernment representing there
and I'm going to buy theirdinner tonight because we're
doing that for everybody.
(41:36):
That's actually a bribe for agovernment official and you just
legally obligated your companyto whatever.
You just did.
Like those things, actually,even though that feels so fake
and unrealistic when it actuallyis, like in the moment, it can
legit just happen because you'renot thinking about it, which is
crazy.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
It is crazy, and it's it's they.
They put these trainings outthere for a reason so like and
don't divulge secrets that couldget you in trouble, but do
divulge all the secrets thatcan't get you in trouble,
because those are the best ones,great yeah, the long story
short use your best judgment.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
If it's going to impact human lives, most likely,
tell people to be like hey, youshould start getting ready.
You can say it without sayingit if it's going to get you in.
If you do say it.
But also just try to betransparent as you can, even if
you don't have all the answers,cause I think that is way better
, even if it costs them swirl.
I think that's way better thanthe opposite way.
Like the other culture ofnon-transparency and
everything's hidden door, it'slike it'll build the wrong
(42:34):
culture that wasn't so difficult, was it?
Speaker 1 (42:41):
it was fun.
Yeah, absolutely a great time.
You could say it was.
You know it was.
It was as easy as taking it.
Taking a loaf of bread and turnit into like a bajillion fish
and just feeding people.
That's how easy.
It was.
So simple, are you?
Gonna feed the samples how areyou gonna feed them?
It's.
(43:01):
How are you going to feed them?
I'm going to turn Satan into apig.
Send him off a cliff.
Hey, if you enjoyed thisepisode of Christian Strategy,
where would you go to get moreof this?
Speaker 2 (43:15):
There's so many options.
Just search for ChristianStrategy and see what comes up
on the internet.
But in reality, if you want thereal thing, just scroll down.
You know you're listening tothis on something.
I would assume you probablyhave something in your hand
right now or on your watchsomewhere in your pocket.
Just scroll down on the screen.
Do you with me?
Yep, scrolling, okay, okay,great, okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Yeah, okay, okay, cool, cool, cool.
You're there.
Okay, there's something calledLinktree.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
I've opened the.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
Linktree, click on it .
Yep, okay, you're there.
Okay, great, and there's goingto be a whole bunch of links in
there.
You can leave us a rating.
Oh, you're right, you can share.
You can go to show that Brucesolely pays for financially, so
thank you for that.
And you can also buy a babyonesie.
If you just had a fresh newbornand you want to get them
(44:05):
inundated with corporate, youcan get a Christian strategy.
You can definitely get them ababy onesie that may or may not
say Christian on it, with anupside down cross.
And you can also, mostimportantly, join our discord,
where all the excitingconversation is happening, and
you can leave us, you know, podtopics that you want us to talk
(44:27):
about.
Next, you can join in just onsharing different workplace tips
.
You can also play some awesomegames.
What do you mean?
We explain visual memes intoyour ear holes through our mouth
holes it great?
Speaker 1 (44:40):
We would love to do it, but we have no memes right
now.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
I know it's crazy.
You know what I think it's me.
I think it's me Because for awhile the Discord was blown up,
and then I started chiming backin because I was so behind.
Now it's dead.
I'm the problem.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
No, it's not you.
You know what it is.
I don't believe you.
It's the Linktree.
The Linktree, yeah, theLinktree.
They're not clicking it.
I just made the mistake.
I went on my phone and Iclicked the Linktree and I ended
up buying like 4,000 babyonesies covered in coffee.
So, like the instructions werejust not clear, clark, I'm sorry
.
I'm sorry, linkt.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
We're going to have to create a visual guide around
this.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
I think so, I think so and listen.
I would say, like, of all thethings Clark told you to do, the
most important one is gettingin the discord, because that's
where all the action happens.
So join our discord, join theconversation If you want to lurk
.
We have tons of lurkers, welove our lurkers, they're great.
Get in there.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
We share secrets in there all the time, secrets we
shouldn't share Always Secretsthat may or may not incriminate
us.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Yeah, it was like Gandalf in that first scene of
Lord of the Rings.
When he's like, keep it secret,keep it safe, that's our
discord.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
But you won't know.
You won't know, unless you getin there, what secrets we're
divulging and what we'reincriminating ourselves of.
So get in there, and then youcan find out and report us to
the operating officials.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
He puts the ring in Lil Frodo's hand and he's like
it's quite cool and, on thatnote, we thank you, as always,
for listening to the pod.
We hope you will join ourDiscord.
We hope you will join ourdiscord.
We hope you will enjoy thecontent we put out there for you
.
As always, love thy neighbor asthyself.
I'm bruce.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
I'm clark amen in pepsi.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
We trust you're on mute peace.
bless you.
Yeah, doesn't take.
Oh good, I'm glad.
I'm glad you accepted theblessing.
I saw you sneeze just then.
I wanted to make sure I got youI did not sneeze.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Don't let him tell you he opened mouth, sneezed
right into the camera I actuallylike to put my mic right into
my mouth when I have to sneeze.
Just give it a sneeze rightover the mic.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Boom.
I like this idea.
My fear is that I'm anaggressive sneezer and my
sneezes are almost like bites,and if the mic is in my mouth
I'm going to chomp down on Mikeduring sneeze.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
You'll chip a tooth.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
At least one, maybe two, you'll go, and I'll
probably need a new microphonetoo, giving the ginormous chop
mark that are gonna be in it.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
See, I've heard you sneeze.
My wife was telling me Isneezed too aggressively.
She was like you sneeze tooloudly, I'm like I don't know if
I can like I don't know if Ican tone it down if I hold it in
I think I think if you hold ina sneeze you're gonna have a
heart attack.
That's what I told her.
I'm like if I try to hold it in, I might think if you hold it
in a sneeze you're going to havea heart attack.
That's what I told her.
I'm like if I try to hold it in, I might die.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
It's like they used to say in kindergarten If you
sneeze, fart and burp at thesame time, you explode and you
die.
I mean it's factual, I agree.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
I heard it in kindergarten.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
So like it has to be true, like it has to be true.
My wife also told me that Isneezed too aggressively and
after hearing that, my onlyresponse was sneeze with more
aggressive aggression,intentionally.
So now I have violent sneezes.
I just I, I put my heart andsoul.
I mean you gotta think if, if,if you're sneezing, it's because
your body wants to expelsomething, either in, you know,
(01:42):
your nasal cavity or your throator whatever.
Like I mean, why not put mywhole being into it?
Like, if I'm going to dosomething, I'm going to whole
ass it.
I'm going to whole ass mysneezes and I'm going to get
whatever's in there out of there.
And uh, I do.
I put my entire effort my, mysoul leaves my body when I
sneeze and I have to grab it andshove it back in.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Otherwise, you know, I'll be a husk like starts
exiting and you're justliterally grabbing it, throwing
it back into your body.
Yeah, I try to get a reallyloud tail to it, you know, like
the initial sneeze, but then youjust like, let it rip for a
while you know, oh you, you havea lingering.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
It's almost like an echo or reverb.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Yeah, you put a little reverb on the sneeze just
on the end.
You just got to keep it goinglike it's an echo I'm a cannon,
I'm all about that.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Like just comes out, duck in as much as you can and
then blast it.
It's short, but it's gonna makeyou jump right like you're.
You're gonna be scared when mynose decides to blow you know
it's a weird thought you onlyget so many.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
You only get so many sneezes throughout your whole
entire life.
Every single thing you do is acountdown until you just get no
more.
So you might as well make themost of it.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Now I don't like this .
I don't like this at all.
But you can.
I mean, have you ever actuallysniffed pepper?
No, have you ever just taken alittle thing?
So I'm not the guy who's goinginto the restaurant, you know,
grabbing the shaker.
He's walking up sniffing it.
Be like some good pepper inhere, but like I, I once had
like really fine pepper on thetable and like I was, you know,
(03:17):
putting it on my, my meal and itwas just so dusty that it got
in my nose and I actuallystarted.
I could not stop sneezingbecause the pepper.
So you, I mean, yes, you'retechnically correct, but if you
wanted to enjoy more sneezes,the pepper trick does work,
especially when it's super fine.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
I've never heard of someone saying this before and
you never will again there'ssomething euphoric about like
you step outside and you juststare up at the sun.
You know I'm talking about.
All squinty eyed and you juststare up at the sun.
You know what I'm talking aboutAll squinty eyed and you're
just trying to get that sneezeout and just gets it out of you
Like it feels so good, feels sogood.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
I think the sun sneezes are great, because
usually when you sneeze with thesun you get a little tear duct
action too.
You get a little cry.
I love a good little crybecause it's like, ooh, my eyes
are now moist.
I love a good little crybecause it's like, ooh, my eyes
are now moist.
You know I might have to wipeaway a little residue, but it's
going to.
You know it's going to push outsome crud with it.
Like, let's go, I'm just goingto go stare at the sun for five
(04:17):
minutes every day, get my sneezeon and need new eyes in less
than a year.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
All right.
Well, that was a great episodeand that's what we get to talk
about sneezing today.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Hope you guys enjoyed it.
Me too.
I feel like we really coveredsome ground today.
What's the etiquette?
Welcome back to CorporateStrategy Podcast.
Could have been an email.
I'm Bruce.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
I'm Clark.
What's the etiquette when youdo it at work?
Do you sneeze Like if you're ina room with a bunch of people?
Oh, absolutely sneeze like ifyou're in a room with a bunch of
people.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Just let it rip just as loud as normal.
I'm not going to suppress that.
Oh yeah, I expect the blessings.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah, you want them.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
You got to get those when you can you want blessings?
I'm scoping the room foratheists.
Who's going to give me theGesundheit?
Who's going to give me theblessings?
I want to know who's theatheists in here, tight, and
who's going to give me theblessings?
I want to know who's theatheists in here.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
I need to know.
I'm doing a search.
This is a pro tip on how you'reable to oust your co-workers
and categorize them Christian,not Christian, Christian
atheists.
I'm really looking.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
You know, I want to know.
I got to suss out the religiouspreferences of my team members,
and sometimes I fake sneeze todo it too.
I really want to get to thebottom of this, like oh, members
, and sometimes I fake sneeze todo it too.
I really want to get to thebottom of this, like, oh, do you
support old jc?
Have you heard a good word?
I'm gonna hand them a bible.
If they don't bless me, I givethem a bible that I just have in
(05:36):
the back of my pocket, just orhanging around, you gotta get a
pamphlet verses.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
We've got the pamphlet for them.
This is actually depending whatyou're looking for in a company
.
In the interview you shouldsneeze just to see if you get a
bless you or not, and that ishow you know whether to take the
job.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Welcome to Christ Strategy, Giving you all the
tips on how to get a Christianin the workplace, Because we
know in this day and age youdon't want to work anywhere
where you don't get a Christianin the workplace, Because we
know in this day and age youdon't want to work anywhere
where you don't get a bless you.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
I am absolutely every can that I screen.
Now I'm sneezing just to makesure I understand what's their
religious preference.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
This is a good plan?
Yeah, no, this is not.
And this is an HR friendly wayto do it, because you know you
know them, HR reps.
They're always looking to getyou Because they don't want you
to be Christian at work.
They're looking to get you.
And this is how you can tell.
You can test it Sneeze in frontof your HR reps, see if you get
a bless you.
That's how you know you can tellthem the truth or not.
Yeah, and this is the firsttime someone's ever listened to
(06:41):
this podcast.
Welcome, I'm not gonna.
I'm not gonna clarify anything,we just said it's 100.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Serious.
This is how we actually are.
This is actually exactly how weare.
Every single episode.
There's never any value, exceptfor these weird, obscure tips
on how to prove the religiouspreference of people around you
or future companies you thatmight employ you we're called
corporate and that's a ruse.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
That's a ruse to fool big corporate into thinking
we're providing value.
This has always been Christianstrategy, the religion that
could have been a pamphlet.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
It is kind of a pamphlet.
Hey, okay, yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Hey, vibe, check, clark, how you doing.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Well, I really wanted to talk about sneezing for
another five minutes, but Iguess we can do the vibe check.
Yeah, we can do that.
Biggies up Doing pretty good.
Doing pretty good.
How was this week?
I'm thinking, thinking throughmy head, how this week has been
Not bad.
I feel like it's been a balanceof like meetings but also focus
(07:46):
time pretty productive, I'd say.
I uh, my whole entire I wouldsay backlog of chats and emails
and everything has stayed undercontrol and even when fires have
come in, you've been able tosquelch them because like no, no
fire, we're putting it out,we're handling it.
So I feel like it's been prettygood overall what about you?
Speaker 1 (08:06):
nice, I love that it's been.
It's been a little chaoticsomething because next week's
our big, big event we do everyyear and I'll be in san diego
for that, so getting ready forthat, but on the whole, I feel
like we're ahead of the game,which is rare, and I'm not like
yeah, I've been on meetings allday, every day, uh, with the
(08:29):
exception of yesterday, andthat's fine.
I expect that for this week,and then the week after the week
, when I get back from theconference, my calendar is 50%
full.
So I'm doing good, I'm doingjust dandy.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
That's awesome.
Do you get well?
Since you're a startup, do youget a lot of email?
Is everyone at the conference?
Speaker 1 (08:55):
if this is your big event, no, Only 10 special
representatives are sent toreally showcase who we are as a
company, and I am always one ofthem.
So yeah, I will be gettingemail, I will be getting asked
to do things while I'm there and, in all honesty, I'm hoping
(09:17):
this year is my opportunity tonot be at the booth working all
day and I can actually step awayand work on some other projects
, because we have goodrepresentation now.
It doesn't always have to bethe Bruce show, so I'm hopeful
we'll do a check back in and seeif that remains true.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
I always think it's like the balance between some
people just really like to be inthe limelight of the conference
.
You know that really want to beup front.
You know, kind of the face ofyour booth or whatever it is
sounds like you're not that guy.
You're okay.
Fade into the background, belike I'm here to support I
absolutely am.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Well, it's.
It's weird because I've learnedthat being the face of a thing
and being like that superstarcan be a little bit of a career
limiting move.
You have to let other peopletake that limelight, take the
spotlight, so you can becomemore strategic, and it's a.
It's a hard lesson that I'velearned as I now try and rip
(10:14):
this bandaid off and do strategyand do less of the evangelism
at the same time.
But the problem is everyonejust learns to rely on you, Like
I don't have to.
I don't have to pull anyoneelse as long as I can pull Bruce
and he can do this thing.
It's put myself in a bit of apickle, but I'm going to.
I'm going to unpickle myselflike a body.
(10:35):
It's been pulled out of a bog.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
I don't think you can unpickle something Like when
something's pickled, it'spickled forever right, I forever
right.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
I'm gonna unpickle myself, squeeze the vinegar
right out, right out, uh, themolecular level.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go in there like
ant-man and I'm gonna punchevery vinegar molecule I see oh,
yeah, yeah, I like that that'swhat I do, so let me do it's a
great, I'm gonna get myself outof this pickle it is interesting
, like I think if you're not inthe leadership ranks, the, if
you're like an individualcontributor, and you see someone
(11:09):
at a booth or whatever gettingall the attention, like you feel
like that's the guy, that's thegal, who's like the person of
the company and like they arethe ones who are going to get
the promotions and all the gloryand everything else.
And then, as you get more seniorin your career, you realize,
yeah, they're not going to makeit much further than this and if
(11:29):
you really want to get up,these are the activities you
need to be doing.
It is really interestingbecause I used to think that too
, like as I was growing mycareer, and then over time I've
realized like it's not about thelimelight, it's about sitting
back and guiding the strategyand showing that your team is
executing really, really well.
That's what makes you a strongleader.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Exactly, you need to be able to do it.
So, like it is important thatyou can be that guy because,
like you still have to do pressengagements, you still have to
be able to get up on stage andtalk and deliver presentations
and all that, but like thatcan't be all you are.
You have to show there's moreto it than just being mr popular
.
So, uh, yeah, I'm in, I'm inthe phase of unbecoming mr
(12:13):
popular and I'm cool with it.
I'm really cool with it.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Good, for you and your team sounds like they're
doing.
They're crushing it.
People are doing great they are.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
I love them.
Love them to death for you.
Hey, speaking of my team, Igotta I got a good topic for us
today.
Ooh, when do you tell the truth?
When do you do it?
And you already know where I'mgoing with this, but I'm going
to give you an example so ourlisteners know too.
Right, you've been toldsomething by upper management.
(12:41):
Maybe you've heard somethingthrough the grapevine and you
know this is going to impactyour team.
When they hear it, they willhear it.
The question is when and fromwhom?
When do you, clark, step in andsay you know what?
I'm going to beat this to thepunch.
I want to be the one to tell myteam this news and I'm just
(13:02):
going to say look, you didn'thear this from me, but sneezing
is no longer allowed in theworkplace.
It's a fireable offense, andI'd rather you hear this from me
than from the big wigs up atopbecause they hate old JC.
But that's, that's where we'reat as a company.
When do you do it, clark?
When do you tell?
Speaker 2 (13:23):
the truth.
When do you implement Christianstrategy and just tell the
truth it's in the commandments,for goodness sakes.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Yeah, no, I think it's like in the you know, there
was a verse that literally saystell the truth, bro, really do
it.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Yeah, Jesus said that If you use the New
International Version it's brah,but you were close.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
How could I forget Much better version to pull your
Jesus quotes from?
How could I forget?
Thank you, Clark, for bringingthat You're welcome.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Oh, I'm dying.
This is actually really funny.
It's even funnier when you saythis is really funny, so you
guys are welcome.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Yeah, this is a trick .
Now I know when to laugh.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Thank you, yeah, I've got to tell you just to make
sure you do it.
Yeah, this is a tough onebecause it's so contextual of,
like, what is the impact?
Is it layoffs?
Is it you know moving?
Is it calling everybody who wasremote back to the office?
Is it you know a new directionthe company is taking?
(14:33):
Is it you're getting acquired?
Is it the company's folding?
Like there's so many differentthings that, as a leader, you'll
get looped into because youneed to start, like prepping the
logistics of whatever it is.
And I think the most humanthing is like, if you bring it
down to human level, you have toprep your team for the impact
(14:54):
that's coming and that's theright thing to do.
It's not the easiest thing todo, but that's the right thing
to do.
Is like maybe you're not sayingwhat's going to happen, but
you're going to say it or hintat it.
And a couple of examples wouldbe like you know, if the
company's about to fold, it'slike man, you're so great, like
(15:16):
I think you could do really wellelsewhere.
Like starting to drop thosehints, which it's tough because
they can't like ask you, youcan't say what's coming.
Even if they ask you, it's likeI don't know.
But I think you should alwaysbe prepared and always be
looking just to see what else isout there, because you're so
great and so you kind of have tolie, but in the direction of
(15:37):
where it's going to be betterfor them as a person, if that
makes sense.
Yeah, that's my perspective.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
But it's so contextual it's hard.
It's very contextual and thetough thing for me is one you
have to evaluate.
If I tell my whole team this,who are they going to tell?
Right, because secrets travel,news travels.
The grapevine exists for areason and it's to make wine for
(16:05):
jesus to turn to water.
And if you don't tell them,they may hear it from someone
else.
And then they'll come to youand say did you know this?
And if you say yes, thenthey're like why didn't you tell
me?
Don't you trust?
Trust me, right?
Like there is a whole, there isa whole culture game that is
played with secrets andinformation.
And I like to err on the sideof who's the primary source.
(16:29):
So if someone tells mesomething and they're the
primary source, then I know noone else knows this unless that
person has told other people.
And it's probably for the bestthat I don't share it broadly.
But if, if it is a hey, just soyou know we're talking about
doing X, like I know, okay,other teams know this, other
(16:50):
people know this, it's notbroadly announced.
If it impacts my team in someway, shape or form, they, they
probably will hear it fromsomeone else.
So there's no harm in metelling them and like I'm doing
this sort of mental math toevaluate like, okay, is it my,
is my team the leaker, or cananother team be the leaker?
And if it's, if it's fair game,I'm just going to tell them
(17:11):
because I'd much rather it comefrom me than from someone else.
And that's.
That's the gymnastics I gothrough when I do share
information, because I don'tever want to be the person
that's like, oh well, we can'ttrust Bruce.
Loose lips, sink ships.
But same time I don't want tobe the well, we can't trust
Bruce.
He's a corporate bootlicker andhe doesn't tell anyone anything
(17:34):
.
So I I try to straddle it.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Yeah, oh my goodness, do you feel like?
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Yeah, oh, my goodness , do you feel like you feel like
your team is afraid to ask yousometimes if a leak is true,
share uh in in good faith thatin telling them this will help
them prepare for whatever thenews is going to bring Right?
Like I don't just do it to dolike I'm not dishing a dish.
I usually it's because, like,we need to start thinking about
(18:13):
what this means for our product,for our company, for our
customers, for, like, whateverit is, like there's going to be
a cause and there's an effect,and like I want us thinking more
about the effect and the cause,because once that news drops,
everyone's so focused on theimmediate reaction of it they're
not able to think long-term.
Like I want to be past thatphase.
I want to be in the solvingphase, not the oh no, what do we
(18:37):
do?
Like we don't worry, we knowwhat to do.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
We've already been thinking about this.
Yeah, I think I'm pretty luckyin the organization I'm in right
now that the big boss is verytransparent, as much and
probably more than they shouldbe, because that's the type of
culture they want to build inour big organization, and I
really appreciate that becauseit fosters a sense of like.
(19:05):
Okay, I trust that they areexposing to me is probably more
than I need to know or shouldknow, just to be transparent.
And so we're pretty lucky inthat sense that the big boss is
very, very open and honest and,you know, transparent.
And there's pros and cons tobeing that way, because it
(19:26):
causes a lot of swirl sometimesbecause, like you said, like the
grapevine happens and thenpeople start speculating and
they wonder the impact.
And the truth of the matter is,even the big boss doesn't have
the answers.
They're just letting us know tosay this is going to likely
happen.
I don't know when, I don't knowwhat the impacts are, but I
wanted you to know so you can atleast know like and be
(19:47):
transparent.
It's going to happen and we'regonna do our best to put
together a plan, but we don'thave all the answers.
And I love that transparencybecause it's just it makes them
feel like a human.
It makes me feel like I can justconnect with the boss and be
like okay, feel like a human.
It makes me feel like I canjust connect with the boss and
be like okay, you know, Iappreciate that.
And like you're a human too.
You don't have all the answers,so it's very like humbling to
be a part of an organizationlike this.
(20:07):
But I also have been on theopposite end of that spectrum,
where you hear nothing, it'sradio, silent, and then, like
one day, packages just show upon people's desks and envelopes
and it's like well, we just laidoff 20% of the workforce.
Today and everybody meet in abig conference room for the
survivors and this is what we'redoing today.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
And in those moments it's like you have to think had
they just given people a hint orlike an inkling?
Yeah, you know, just everyoneshould be updating their resume,
kind of thing, like it's goodpractice, right.
Like you never know what'sgoing to happen.
I'm not saying anything's goingto happen, I'm just saying
there's a vibe.
We don't know what the nextquarter is going to hold.
(20:45):
Maybe just update your resumeIf you, if you have contacts out
there, see what's out there.
Let's say in, jump, just sayinglike times are rocky right now,
like read, read the room, feelthe weather, check the
temperature.
What have you Like?
I feel like that's so muchbetter than you're gone.
(21:06):
You're laid off, you know, andlike it's like a complete and
total shock to everybody.
But someone did know andsomeone chose not to share
because those things can't justhappen overnight.
They do take managerial andleadership uh input there's.
There's discussions that inputthere's discussions that happen.
There's trades that happen.
Layoffs are a dirty, disgustingthing where you are bargaining
(21:30):
hey, I want to keep my team.
Okay, well, if you keep yourteam, then they have to give up
somebody.
Okay, well, that's how it'sdone, absolutely it's done.
So I think a good manager wouldat least try and do something
for their team to ensure thatyou know they land Okay, if
they're not going to stay at thecompany.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Right, yeah, those, those times are so, so rocking.
You have to evaluate, like toyour point, what's more
disruptive.
You start getting people prepmonths ahead and then
everybody's speculating oh shoot, like what is the, what's the
stock?
Yeah, it's just gonna, it'sgonna take the priority.
Like imagine you are in thatdire situation as a business.
(22:10):
You know the next quarter couldmake or break you and you have
to decide do I keep everyonefocused so that we make it, or
do I look out for all of themand say it's rocky right now and
like take that as you will andjust be prepared for anything
that could happen?
It's like you, it's all abouthow you position.
It's like listen, as a company,like we need to pull together
(22:32):
now and that's the only waywe're going to make it through
this next quarter.
I think it's all aboutpositioning and messaging.
I think you can figure that outfrom a business standpoint to
keep everybody if youcommunicate it properly
everybody focused on the rightgoal.
But if you have created aculture where it's not
transparent layoffs havehappened before and now you're
(22:54):
asking an unmotivated team andorganization to now rally behind
you because this could make orbreak the company and you just
laid off 20% of the workforcelast month out of nowhere.
It's like no one is going tojoin you on that.
People are just going to beprepping.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Yep, and and this is why it's not black and white,
right, like you, you receive apiece of information does not
mean, well, let me go spin up ameeting and tell my team about
it.
Like, gotta tell them right now.
It's like you can sit on thisstuff.
Uh, and I think you should.
You should definitely sit on it.
You should never just reactright away If you receive
(23:32):
something and say, well, firstorder of business is let me go
tell Clark everything.
No, like, think through, isthis, is this a short term thing
or a longterm thing?
Like, if it's longterm, then itprobably does no good to start
them spinning and worrying andthinking about it If it's not
going to impact them for sixmonths, maybe three months since
we have that conversation,maybe four months since we have
(23:53):
that conversation.
Maybe, if it's looking bad,like you say, okay, well, this
was contingent on hittingcertain KPIs or goals, we're not
hitting those.
I think it's time I sit downand tell my team because I care
about them.
It's time to have thatconversation and it cannot just
be a yes or no.
It has to be like there's alittle bit of math, planning,
(24:15):
emotional checking that goesinto this.
Because on the other side, ifit is just black and white, yeah
, like yeah, you could tell themright away, or no, you don't
ever tell them.
Your morale is tanked after that, like to your point.
You tell them too early andit's like well, we're never
gonna hit that goal anyway now,because everyone's worried,
everyone's, everyone's sofocused on themselves.
(24:36):
They're not focused on thecompany anymore.
It was a fool's errand.
We can't hit this goal.
On the other side, you don'ttell them, you play by the rules
of corporate and 25 of thecompany still gets laid off for
whatever reason.
Now your team's like I don'twant to stay here.
Like we just busted our buttsfor the last six months and we
(24:57):
didn't hit a goal we didn't knowabout, and now 25% of the
team's gone.
I'm gonna start updating myresume.
I'm gonna get out of here,cause I'm gonna.
I could be next Like yourmorale is shot forevermore and I
don't know if you can even pullout of that unless leadership
cycles Like that's.
When you see that leadershipcycle happen, people might get
reinvigorated, like, okay, well,at least those maniacs are gone
.
I'm not going to deal with thepsychopathic cuts, but it can't
(25:20):
be one or the other.
I think it definitely has to bean evaluation at all times
about information sharing.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Yeah, I agree, I've got a tough one for you.
Okay, the government reductionsthat have happened, elon Musk
sending out the no, or whoeverdoes whatever, reply back to
this email by Friday, or or getcut.
(25:47):
I mean, in one way that'stransparent.
It's like very honest.
Hey, you can either take thepackage and you can leave, or
you reply back to this note andshow that you're staying.
If you don't reply at all, likeI'm assuming, you're leaving in
a lot of ways that's like this.
Yeah, I know right, it just, itjust popped.
I had a totally differentdirection I was going to go and
then this came my brain of likeis that actually good, because
(26:07):
it's very transparent and honestand they gave them options, or
is it bad?
Speaker 1 (26:12):
I mean the funny thing about all of this, and
I've had this conversation withpeople and like I, just high,
high level, okay, let's're.
Like I, just high, high level,okay, let's.
Before I answer your question,high level, there's so much
waste and bureaucracy and redtape.
We have to fix it.
As American hat on.
(26:33):
As an American like we have tofix what is broken.
You cannot let broken thingsstay broken.
Now are the ones who are chosento go fix it the right ones,
like you know, if you had abusted water pipe in your house,
do you call a plumber or do youcall the local billionaire who
(26:56):
no longer needs to work to makemoney to come fix your problem?
Like I might go with someonewho's like a little more, I
don't know, close to the closeto the issue itself, someone I
know who like okay, you've fixedbroken pipes before.
I'm going to trust you to comein and fix my broken pipe.
Not someone who's like well,you buy companies and make money
(27:17):
off them.
Why?
Why are you the one who'scoming in to fix the problem?
Now to your question.
I love it because one it showsyou the exact kind of leadership
they are right Like.
This is micromanagement.
Do you want to stay working ina job even if it's for the
(27:38):
government, where you're beingmicromanaged by someone who's
not a plumber?
Like here's a great out for you.
You can.
You can take your leave, getyour package, go and they're
forced to pay you because it'sgovernment benefits.
Like this is not the worst casescenario for those people and
with government experience, youcan go work, you can go
independent, go into the privatesector and make probably twice
as much money.
So, yeah, it's not bad for themand it is a level of
(28:02):
transparency that I would want,especially when I'm not dealing
with a plumber.
You know what I'm saying.
Like.
It's like, if we're going todeal with this type of
personality, please betransparent so I can make an
executive decision for myself.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Yeah, but I mean cause they?
Speaker 1 (28:16):
could have gone a different direction.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
They could have gone a different direction.
They could have just said we'recutting 20%.
Your manager will tell you byFriday, whether you made the cut
or not.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
That could have happened.
And then you're just like well,what do I do?
Speaker 2 (28:28):
What do I do?
And you're like okay, like Iguess, like I'm here and I may
or may not be cut and I couldalso resign, and like I'm
probably to do that, like thatwould have been worse.
So I actually think the waythat they did it in some
positive is like at least youknow, the people that said yes
are willing to stay, you'regetting the right people on the
bus is like the positive of that.
(28:49):
No, because they had an out,they had like six months
severance or something crazylike that.
And I know someone close to mewho took it and they were like
yeah it was not me.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Yeah, I would take the time off.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
I was going to leave anyway, Taking six months off of
the government right now soundslike a great idea.
Just pro tip if you're in thegovernment.
The cynical part of me says thereason they actually did it is
because they have no friggingclue who's actually valuable
freaking clue who's actuallyvaluable.
And if they just did like a 25%cut, they would probably they
(29:28):
would somehow get rid of everysingle valuable employee the
government has and all thatwould be left is the other 80%
of the Pareto principle and itwould just be like, well, if you
thought we weren't functionalbefore, wait till you see us now
.
Like, I think the email it doestwo things.
One, it gets rid of people whoare kind of checked out, looking
for a paycheck, don't want towork under this regime.
So yes, it is a little bit ofself-filtration.
And two, the people that wantto stay are going to work under
(29:52):
this regime, good, bad orotherwise, like they're going to
work and they know they'regoing to be under this sort of
orwellian level of observation.
So there is a little bit of asilver lining there, like I
think.
I think it could be helpful forthem to stay because they kind
of know what they're gettinginto.
But right, this is all me justsuspecting things without any
(30:13):
actual insight into thesituation.
Uh, but it's a, it's a.
It feels like a good feeling.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
I, I feel like I'm I'm not wrong yeah, I like not
to get political, but it justseems so relevant to this.
They went about it a way thatthey were capable of doing,
which was positive in some ways,but also probably had a lot of
negativity associated with ittoo, which I can totally
understand.
So there's pros and cons.
I got rapid fire ones for you.
(30:39):
I want to hear whether you tellyour team yes.
So there's pros and cons.
I got rapid fire ones for you,yeah, I want to hear whether you
tell your team yes or you don'ttell your team.
Okay, you ready.
No, okay, return to officeFully remote to hybrid.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Done deal, not a discussion.
This is just mandate, it'smandate.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
You got to move.
If you have to move, I tellthem right away.
Yeah, I'm right away.
So this comes down and they sayhey Bruce, three days in the
office, it's going to start intwo months.
Like, we don't know thelogistics, we don't know if we
can offer these people to moveor not.
Uh, but we'll tell you when.
You should tell your team.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
I tell them right away, because I don't know if
they need to start looking atbabysitters, you know, I don't
know if they need to startlooking for, you know, care for
their family members.
Like there's so much time thathas been redeemed by remote work
, I tell them right away, like Idon't want them to be caught
saying, if I'd known just a bitearlier, I could have, I could
have actually made this work,right.
And there's the other side.
(31:39):
It's like there's no way thisis going to work.
So get your best foot forward.
They're going to go anyway,right.
If they're not going to come in, they're not going to come in.
So get them out now, go get the.
Go get a job now, versus whenthe the the hammer comes down.
So that's an easy one.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
I agree with that one Organizational change that does
not directly impact your team.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
No.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
I don't tell them, don't let them know.
You just let it happen, youfind out hey, Bruce, we're
changing this whole departmentand you guys work with them.
They're not going to do whatyou do anymore.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Right, I mean, if it's going to impact how they
work, maybe, but if it doesn'timpact how they like.
So you know, if it's marketingand the R and D team is the one
that's getting reorg, I don'tsay anything.
That's not my problem.
Like I'm going to pretend likeI don't know about it.
Yeah, like it's like I don'twant to worry about it.
(32:32):
Nor should that.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Yeah, it's no direct impact.
It's just water cooler talk andin those cases.
I kind of do the same thing belike oh, wow like I have done
that because what's?
I think individuals will getcaught up in those details and
at the end of the day, itdoesn't really impact you.
So in those cases I'm likethere's not a lot of points in
me wasting time talking aboutyeah, if they said like did you
(32:55):
know this?
Speaker 1 (32:56):
I would say yes, and I did not care.
Uh, so that's the way I woulddo.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
It didn't feel like passing it along like it's like
if someone asks because youprobably you probably get this
too like things are happening,someone will ask you.
They'll come to you and be likeyes you know, is this happening
and like in those cases, you,you, like.
I always say like I don't knowif it is exactly, but this is
what I've heard, like I try tobe transparent as I can, but
sometimes you're not supposed tosay anything.
(33:22):
But if someone directly askedme, or they asked me if I knew,
then I'll typically tell themthe truth yeah, yeah, I mean, if
they asked me, I would.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
I would.
In that scenario, I would tellthem the truth and say I just
didn't, I don't think it'simportant for us and that's why
I didn't bring it up yeah,organizational change that
affects team.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
But I'm going to give you the context because I think
, yeah, obviously, if it doesdirectly lay off people or
whatever, yeah sure, let's sayyou're taking on a new product
line into your team, so you'regoing to take on something brand
new with new headcount probablyno, probably no.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
And here's why that's an opportunity, I think,
announced in the rightenvironment, that could be
really exciting and that couldactually invigorate people like,
oh cool, this is something theywere thinking about doing, like
they're going to roll it out.
Everyone finds out at the sametime they can share in the
excitement of the new product orshare ideas.
Like that way, you don't havesomeone who knows more than
someone else in the excitementof the new product, or share
(34:21):
ideas.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Like that way, you don't have someone who knows
more than someone else in theroom and no one feels left out
yeah, yeah, it's alwaysinteresting for this one because
we recently had something likethis happen, where a position
was announced and no one thatcould be promoted into that role
was notified ahead of time.
It was just posted externallyand that was actually seen as
(34:43):
negative from a few of thepeople I talked to were like
well, I wasn't aware, like Iwasn't asked, it was just posted
and now like I got to go likeapply if I'm interested.
So sometimes it can be seen asa negative.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Yeah, yeah, in that case absolutely.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
If I know about a role that one of my teammates
could go for, I will tell themas soon as I know for sure.
Yeah, yeah, okay, I think thelast one I have for you, I think
this will be the last one, um,influential, like leader, like
way up there CEO, senior, vicepresident, whatever is leaving
and you know, about it.
You know they're leaving.
Everybody loves this person.
They're kind of the voice ofthe company.
Do you tell them?
Speaker 1 (35:36):
It doesn't impact your team.
Really, this one feels like theprevious one with the project,
where it's almost better not toso everyone can react at the
same time.
Yeah, because again you don'twant to create that environment
where it's like oh well, youknow, dave always knows, let's
go talk to dave because hismanager tells him everything.
Like let's go, like you don'twant, you don't want to create,
(35:57):
or dave's a leaky pipe and likejust loves telling people stuff.
Anyway, it's like if I, if Itell Dave, hey, this leader's
going, then they're just gonnago tell everybody and the
announcements like it's ruinedright, like there is a reason.
Sometimes things like this arekept close to the vest and again
, like if it doesn't impact themand their productivity or their
(36:18):
personal life, the reluctancyfor me to share it goes down.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yeah, yeah, this one's tough because it's like
some people stick around forcertain leaders and them leaving
could be a detractor for themwanting to stay, because they're
like, oh man, I really thoughtthey were leading us in the
right direction and now they'releaving.
But to your point, it's likeI've had situations like that
come up, where people, the rumormill starts and people will be,
(36:45):
like, oh, did you hear thisperson's leaving and it's
because they got snubbed orbecause of this?
like no man, they're justretiring, and so like I've had
that come to me before and I'mjust like, yeah, you know, I
heard there could be somechanges and I answer it very PC.
But at the end of the day ourleaders are going to set us up
for success and we're going tofind the right person to be in
the role, whether it's them orsomeone else.
I don't answer it, but Ireassure them we're going to be
(37:08):
all right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
I got one for you.
All right hit me.
You have learned a piece ofcompetitive intelligence that
you should not have learnedabout an external thing that
benefits your team if you tellthem, but legally you probably
shouldn't.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Oh, this is so tough.
Yeah, this goes back to, likeyou probably remember, like
ethics and computer science.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Remember, I live this .
I live this like a week ago.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
This is like ethics and computer science Like
everyone just like, oh who cares?
Like it doesn't matter, it'llnever happen.
Like who cares?
But this stuff is real and ifyou're like a shareholder or
you're a decision maker, likeyou can commit things like tax
fraud and copyright infringementand things like that.
Like if you are privy toinformation and like that can be
(38:02):
legal action that can put yourbutt in jail.
So you really got to be carefulhere.
It's tough.
It's tough Cause like you wantto take advantage of the
situation.
But in this case, if I know,like legally this is an issue, I
don't tell my team and, to behonest with you, I probably go
(38:22):
talk to HR and legal and be like, hey, I'm privy to information
that I shouldn't be and I got itthrough a source that shouldn't
have told me and I'm legallyobligated to tell you.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Now I have literally seen people who have come back
with slides like nda slides fromcompetitors that have been left
on the table after a salesdiscussion, just like oh yeah,
we know competitor x's entireroadmap because they left their
slides in the table.
Printouts of the slidesprintouts yeah, like you should
(39:00):
not.
It's non-disclosure, you shouldnot not have that.
But that's really valuable as acompany for, like, making
decisions.
Um, I think, if I and I don't Idon't know the legal ins and
outs of this Right, and likeit's important, like you can
talk to your legal team aboutthis too.
Like absolutely go to yourlegal team and say, hey, this
(39:21):
could really benefit us if we doa diagnostics on this.
Share this with some folks.
You know, maybe it's just asmall share, but like I do think
it's worth not just keeping itto yourself, talk to your
leaders, talk to your legal,because it can benefit your
company.
And if the other company's sostupid as to print out slides
and leave them on a table, likemaybe they're asking for it, you
know.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
Yeah, yeah, that's like the hardest thing.
It's like if if it.
If somebody is so irresponsiblethat they do something like
this.
It's almost like dude.
Come on, like really.
I found these slides.
Would, they do it to you.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
Would they do it to you?
Speaker 2 (39:58):
Yeah, yeah, that's always so hard.
I think, like human wise andethically and legally wise for
you one go straight to hr andlegal, do not incriminate other
people.
Yes, you cannot expose thesecret until you know it's
legally safe to do so, becausethen, like, potentially, like
let's say it is something thatis nda or they're like yeah,
(40:21):
that's like a really big secret.
We have to let you go, likeimmediately.
That could happen theoretically,and if you, what they do is
they do their due diligence isillegal in HR team and they will
find out who did you talk to?
And you're going to have to saynames.
When you say names, they'regoing to fire those people too
and put you under NDA, and so,like that is the biggest thing
(40:42):
Get permission first, do notincriminate others, and if they
say it's okay, then do it.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Yeah, this is where, if you take an ethics training
as part of your corporate, justenablement pay close attention
to those sections on legal insand outs of things Because, yes,
it can play in your favor, butalso it can be devastating.
So pay close attention to whatyour policies are, talk to legal
(41:10):
, talk to your leadership.
Do not just go disclosingthings willy nilly.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
Yeah, and like you take those, you kind of just
gloss over, like that's not thatimportant, whatever, like how
do you like what if you'rebribing a government official?
And then like, if you reallythink about it, I don't know why
they don't do this Likepractical terms, like oh, we're
at a media event and there's abusiness representative or
there's somebody from thegovernment representing there
and I'm going to buy theirdinner tonight because we're
doing that for everybody.
(41:36):
That's actually a bribe for agovernment official and you just
legally obligated your companyto whatever.
You just did.
Like those things, actually,even though that feels so fake
and unrealistic when it actuallyis, like in the moment, it can
legit just happen because you'renot thinking about it, which is
crazy.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
It is crazy, and it's it's they.
They put these trainings outthere for a reason so like and
don't divulge secrets that couldget you in trouble, but do
divulge all the secrets thatcan't get you in trouble,
because those are the best ones,great yeah, the long story
short use your best judgment.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
If it's going to impact human lives, most likely,
tell people to be like hey, youshould start getting ready.
You can say it without sayingit if it's going to get you in.
If you do say it.
But also just try to betransparent as you can, even if
you don't have all the answers,cause I think that is way better
, even if it costs them swirl.
I think that's way better thanthe opposite way.
Like the other culture ofnon-transparency and
everything's hidden door, it'slike it'll build the wrong
(42:34):
culture that wasn't so difficult, was it?
Speaker 1 (42:41):
it was fun.
Yeah, absolutely a great time.
You could say it was.
You know it was.
It was as easy as taking it.
Taking a loaf of bread and turnit into like a bajillion fish
and just feeding people.
That's how easy.
It was.
So simple, are you?
Gonna feed the samples how areyou gonna feed them?
It's.
(43:01):
How are you going to feed them?
I'm going to turn Satan into apig.
Send him off a cliff.
Hey, if you enjoyed thisepisode of Christian Strategy,
where would you go to get moreof this?
Speaker 2 (43:15):
There's so many options.
Just search for ChristianStrategy and see what comes up
on the internet.
But in reality, if you want thereal thing, just scroll down.
You know you're listening tothis on something.
I would assume you probablyhave something in your hand
right now or on your watchsomewhere in your pocket.
Just scroll down on the screen.
Do you with me?
Yep, scrolling, okay, okay,great, okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Yeah, okay, okay, cool, cool, cool.
You're there.
Okay, there's something calledLinktree.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
I've opened the.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
Linktree, click on it .
Yep, okay, you're there.
Okay, great, and there's goingto be a whole bunch of links in
there.
You can leave us a rating.
Oh, you're right, you can share.
You can go to show that Brucesolely pays for financially, so
thank you for that.
And you can also buy a babyonesie.
If you just had a fresh newbornand you want to get them
(44:05):
inundated with corporate, youcan get a Christian strategy.
You can definitely get them ababy onesie that may or may not
say Christian on it, with anupside down cross.
And you can also, mostimportantly, join our discord,
where all the excitingconversation is happening, and
you can leave us, you know, podtopics that you want us to talk
(44:27):
about.
Next, you can join in just onsharing different workplace tips
.
You can also play some awesomegames.
What do you mean?
We explain visual memes intoyour ear holes through our mouth
holes it great?
Speaker 1 (44:40):
We would love to do it, but we have no memes right
now.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
I know it's crazy.
You know what I think it's me.
I think it's me Because for awhile the Discord was blown up,
and then I started chiming backin because I was so behind.
Now it's dead.
I'm the problem.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
No, it's not you.
You know what it is.
I don't believe you.
It's the Linktree.
The Linktree, yeah, theLinktree.
They're not clicking it.
I just made the mistake.
I went on my phone and Iclicked the Linktree and I ended
up buying like 4,000 babyonesies covered in coffee.
So, like the instructions werejust not clear, clark, I'm sorry
.
I'm sorry, linkt.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
We're going to have to create a visual guide around
this.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
I think so, I think so and listen.
I would say, like, of all thethings Clark told you to do, the
most important one is gettingin the discord, because that's
where all the action happens.
So join our discord, join theconversation If you want to lurk
.
We have tons of lurkers, welove our lurkers, they're great.
Get in there.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
We share secrets in there all the time, secrets we
shouldn't share Always Secretsthat may or may not incriminate
us.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Yeah, it was like Gandalf in that first scene of
Lord of the Rings.
When he's like, keep it secret,keep it safe, that's our
discord.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
But you won't know.
You won't know, unless you getin there, what secrets we're
divulging and what we'reincriminating ourselves of.
So get in there, and then youcan find out and report us to
the operating officials.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
He puts the ring in Lil Frodo's hand and he's like
it's quite cool and, on thatnote, we thank you, as always,
for listening to the pod.
We hope you will join ourDiscord.
We hope you will join ourdiscord.
We hope you will enjoy thecontent we put out there for you
.
As always, love thy neighbor asthyself.
I'm bruce.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
I'm clark amen in pepsi.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
We trust you're on mute peace.
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