August 25, 2025 • 47 mins
Navigating workplace pay transparency reveals deeper issues with corporate compensation structures that value years of experience over actual performance and results.
• Pay transparency can create uncomfortable situations when high performers discover they're paid similarly to underperforming team members
• Experience-based pay scales often fail to reward actual contribution and value
• Out-of-band pay adjustments may be necessary when structural inequities threaten to drive away top performers
• Performance-based compensation models with significant bonus components create healthier incentive structures
• Managers must be judicious when making offers to ensure pay reflects value, not just years of experience
• Calibrating pay across teams helps identify and address potential equity issues before they become problems
• Young, high-performing employees are often at a disadvantage in negotiating their true worth
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
No.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I was going to see how long I'd say anything and
then I thought about it.
I'm like that's a terriblething to do on a podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Burn and pop.
You know what.
You know what people onpodcasts love.
They love it.
It's silence Poll.
Listener poll.
How many of you listen to thison like 8x speed?
Second listener poll.
How many of you listen to thislike 8x speed?
Second listener poll.
How many of you listen to this?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
I want to know yeah, look, maybe do the first one
first, but no, no, it's fine.
No, no, I like your work, justdo it no one listens to this pod
anymore.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
No one cares about corporate strategy.
The podcast could have been anemail on bruce and I'm clark and
you're on mute.
Oh, thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Yeah, I wonder how you doing.
I wonder you know I have to getafter you for something no,
please don't.
It's something.
It's something you just said.
You said no one listened tothis podcast, but we just had
someone reach out about ourfavorite thing ever the baby
(01:05):
onesie.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Uh-huh, which I, which motivated me to go look at
the spread shop.
Did you know we had like 10sales this year, did we really?
Yeah, well, the thing is.
So here it listener, dearlistener.
We don't get money fromanything sold in the spread shop
, so it doesn't notify us whensales happen.
Um, it did make me realize,though, like one I would love
(01:28):
for us to get, like right now,it's the logo, it's the
corporate logo, but like wecould, you know, because this is
a nonprofit or truly anonprofit organization.
If y'all have any funny memes orlogos, like if there's an
artistic bone at any of yourbody and you want it on a shirt,
we would be happy to like addthat to the store and give you
credit.
You know art by whomever.
(01:48):
And if you wanted to list a funcorporate strategy thing on the
store, happy to do that.
One and two, there are otheroptions for baby onesies and
baby beanies and unitards.
So if there is an item that youwould like the logo on that we
don't have listed, I can find itand list it, guarantee it.
(02:09):
I don't know about the qualityof it, but it seems like, for
the most part, the, the mug webought still going strong after
2000 washes.
The shirt I have has faded, um,but that's just shirts, right
like shirts.
So you know, you kind of getwhat you get, but I feel like
the prices aren't bad.
So all this is to say we don'tprofit off it.
(02:29):
If you want something tosupport the pod, do it in the
bias of coffee.
If you want something foryourself, do it through the
spread shop, and if you'remissing something, reach out to
us through the Discord, whichyou can get to in the show notes
, and we can make any of yourdreams come true.
It's really easy for us andyeah, Nice sales pitch.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
By the way, I still want the shirt that says hashtag
big cack energy.
We can do that.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Make it.
You're the AI dude.
Go, have the AI make the shirt.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
I've done this whole entire thing just for a little
side project I do of like howgood is AI at making imagery and
like, keeping characters?
That's what I thought it was asof like two months ago.
It was god awful.
It has gotten much, much betterwith the right prompting.
Much better with the rightprompting.
And you might have to challengeme on this, because I might
(03:25):
have to try to make my belovedBig Cac Energy shirt in my
graffiti logo with some funcolors.
Maybe I'll do it with AI,because I tried something
recently and I was blown away.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Blown away.
So here's why I stand by theoriginal statement.
Does it make better images?
Yes, it does.
It doesn't get the fingerswrong anymore.
There's a lot of things that AIhas fixed that were inherently
wrong with it.
Question for you Can you stilltell if an image is AI instantly
(03:55):
by looking at it?
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Ooh, these last ones, I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
I am not so sure, do a test in the Discord, do a test
.
Go find, make some images, findsome real images and see if we
can guess which ones are AI andwhich ones are not.
New game for the show AI or not.
Is it AI?
Is it AI?
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, we might have to do this.
I might have to look up.
I'll make a channel.
I'll make a channel.
All right, let's do it.
We got new game show.
People never visit all thesechannels that we create, so you
know, this will be the one thingwe do.
We do it a single time.
We never talk about it again.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
You know what?
I'm doing it right now DiscordGo in there, play the game, put
a picture in there.
Is it AI?
We'll do it live in the pod,but you do have to let us know
if it is or it isn't.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Otherwise then it's the wicks of everyone's time.
I have to make sure that Idon't.
Can you see the file name inDiscord?
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Yeah, if you click into it, and maybe that's the
thing, in the file name put AIor don't put AI, and we won't
look at it until we guess.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
I like that.
Yeah, I'll name the filespecifically AI and not AI, and
we'll see what you guys come upwith.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Let's do this.
I'm ready.
I'm ready to be crushed anddestroyed.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
It's my life in general.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
I feel like a crushed and destroyed person just every
day now.
So let's make it happen on thepod too.
Let's remove my one safe space.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
If anyone listened to the last episode they would
know that is a hundred percenttrue.
I was.
I was worried about you.
I was about to drive over toyour home, knock on your door
and just make sure that you werealive.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
You, you might've been surprised.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
I'm just saying those really high ceilings you have
are perfect for certainactivities.
I'm just saying those reallyhigh ceilings you have are
perfect for certain activities.
I'm just saying Trampolines yes, that's exactly what I was
talking about Bungee cording,trampolines, rope climbing Ooh
home.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Home.
I can't say the words Homeoperated bungee cord.
I want't, you got it.
You can't say the words Homeoperated bungee cord.
I want to go.
What could go wrong?
What could go right?
Speaker 2 (06:13):
You know, this reminds me of a amazing TV show
America's Funniest Home Videos.
Oh my gosh, that's a relic.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
It is a relic.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
And that's for YouTube.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
I love you killed that show it really did.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
It did, yeah.
And now you have like chive tvand all that which still plays
at the really crappy restaurantsyou go to.
You don't even need it.
Youtube's all you need.
People do plenty of stupidstuff on youtube, literally
infinite stupidity there's.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
there's more stupidity than you can ever
watch in your life on YouTube.
Enjoy.
That's amazing.
It is crazy America's FunniestHome Video.
Last week we talked about theTaco Bell.
This week we're talking aboutAFV, right?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Or AVF.
Is it America's Funniest Home?
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Video AFV.
Afv.
It was Bob Saget who was thesecond guy.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
The second guy was pretty good too.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
I don't care about the second guy, bob saget was
the guy.
He's.
All I remember was the guy, butlike it was fun, he was fine
and the fact that I remember hisname is not a good indication
but like dang, that was a whole.
That was literally like aphenomenon.
Everyone watched that show.
Oh yeah, growing up, and thenyoutube happened and just dead.
You don't need that showanymore, isn't it great?
William johnson came in and waslike watch me do this every
(07:27):
week on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Isn't it just wild to think about times pre-YouTube
and pre-internet of how youtalked about things.
There was no real instantaccess to niche-related things,
right?
Instant access to like nicherelated things, right, you
couldn't find specific interestbecause it was like Nope,
everybody watches America'sfunniest home videos at 7 PM on
(07:50):
Thursdays and that's what youtalk about for the next week,
before the next show comes out.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Like there was no do you see that video where the dad
got hit in the nuts?
That was all of them, that wasonly all of them and they were
funny.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
They slept every time , they never got old.
But now it's like hey, do youknow this niche youtuber that
has 1 000, 1.8 000 followers onyoutube?
And they're like no, there'sbillions of those people now.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Hey, have you guys seen this new challenge on
tiktok?
It's called flatlining.
You basically like go dead fora few minutes and then your best
friend revives you.
It's so cool, cool, you've gotto try it out.
You've got to see these videos.
They're so funny, man, they'relegally dead.
Should we do that and yourevive me?
Yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
That'll be the unveiling, the unveiling of our
faces.
And then it will be.
Will Clark survive or will hejust die right now?
Speaker 1 (08:41):
You can commune with Slaanesh for a few minutes, and
then we'll bring you back toreal life.
So, should we talk about?
Speaker 2 (08:48):
something.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
No, how are you doing ?
Speaker 2 (08:52):
I'm doing.
Okay, vibe check.
Vibe check Pinkies up.
I'm pinkies up.
Pinkies are up.
I'm vibe checking.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
I'm pretty good.
I'm in the middle of lovehearing that I'm in the middle
of the move.
I love moving sucks.
I love the box no, it doesn'tmuch.
You're so wrong okay, okay, letme get this right.
The process of moving sucks.
Being in a brand newenvironment in the home is the
best thing no, moving's great,disagree 100.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
One you need to pack up everything.
Like everything you have.
You could put it in a box.
So, one, there's the evaluation.
Like, do I still like thisthing?
It's true, can I, can I throwit away?
I love that process.
Two, you get to dust everything.
So it's like oh, where I gonext it's gonna be a clean,
dust-free environment.
Three, it's like oh, thedecoration possibilities.
I've been so constrained inthis current environment.
(09:41):
I cannot wait to pack all thisup and then unpack it in a new,
fun, visually interesting way.
What is wrong with you?
Moving is the best.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
I would move every day if I could.
You're a sociopath is whatyou're telling the people right
now.
You are insane.
I like actually the thingsyou're saying.
I can get on board with that.
What I don't like is the bendover.
Pick up the box, go load it inthe truck.
It's a free workout.
Go back in, go grab another.
See, no, no, no Use your knees.
Destroy me.
My body is physicallydismantled and then you end up
(10:14):
taking something off a wall andthen you rip the paint off the
wall and you're like gosh, dangit.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Now I got to use the paint.
You're going to have the wholehouse repainted before you sell
it.
It comes with territory.
And secondly, your body is atemple and you take much better
care of yours than I take careof mine.
You can lift dog.
You can lift real good.
I can't lift at all and I loveit.
I love to lift.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Let me lift something I'm going to go lift something
after this podcast.
You're hired.
You can come over here, I'llhave you lift something for me.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
I got the job.
I'm quitting my real job.
I'm going to help Clark move.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
This is a bad decision on your part because
this is like a couple day thing,so don't put your job for this
job, you know.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Dang Dang.
I was really looking forward toquitting my job.
I was so excited too.
Well, I mean, you still can.
No, the market's terrible rightnow.
I got nowhere to go.
I got nowhere to go.
I got no one to love me.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
I actually don't know anything about the job market
right now.
Is that good or bad?
Speaker 1 (11:11):
It's terrible.
It's probably the worst it'sbeen in our lifetime.
You know, just a good sign ofthe times.
Just in general, yeah, yeah,especially for just like
anything that could possibly bedone by an ai, or like helped by
an ai.
Good luck.
Good luck finding a job, bud.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
good luck yeah, it's true, because I think all the
companies are like freezinghiring, because they're like,
well, what if we just leverageai to make it that much better
and maybe we don't need to hirethese more, these, these
additional people?
Speaker 1 (11:41):
I got someone who reached out to me on LinkedIn
offering me a VP role for halfof what I make today holy cow,
that's wild yeah so take thetitle dude.
Take the title.
I mean, there is part of methat one I care so much more
(12:03):
about title than pay.
It's not even a question, true,you have said.
But the second half of that isis it more work than I'm doing
today?
And the answer is probably yes.
So nah, I'm not gonna do morework for less, but I will do the
same amount of work for bettertitle for less money.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah, I hear that.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
That's my formula.
So I mean, you know, considerthis me on the market.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Is this you saying that you're open to?
Speaker 1 (12:28):
work?
No, because unfortunately Ihave to get to either an exit or
an acquisition in my currentrole.
Otherwise I'd be walking awayfrom just free money.
I'm hanging out.
But the second my goldenhandcuffs are unlocked and I can
do that prison walk free.
(12:48):
Well, firstly, I'm taking a yearoff work.
I'm putting this out here,right here, right now I'm taking
a year off of work period.
Yeah, I need it.
I'm so excited for it.
I can't wait and I hope in thatyear things get better, because
if they get worse, I'm justscrewed either way and I think
I'm going to go be a FedExdelivery man.
(13:09):
Like I think that's what I'mgoing to do.
I know a guy who's a FedExdelivery person and he said it's
the worst thing in the world.
I challenge him to come do myjob.
Fair enough, because whateverthe physical strain is, I
guarantee you it cannot completewith the mental anguish I deal
(13:30):
with from the moment I open myeyes in the morning to the
moment I close my eyes when I goto sleep.
So you know, bet I would loveto work.
Having done physical laborbefore, I would love to go back
to a physical labor job and notuse my brain anymore.
It just sounds magical to me.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
There is something rewarding about like doing
physical, like I'm doing a bunchof house projects while we're
moving because we're movingstuff, and then I'm like, oh, I
should probably fix this beforesomeone should buy it.
And there's something sorewarding about like getting
your hands dirty cutting up somewood.
Yeah, stick your hands togetherusing a drill and you're just
like well, I did that.
I did that physical thing rightthere, not just all that
(14:09):
computer stuff that I always do.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
I have a physical thing to be proud of, that I did
you know, clark, if you everwanted to like start a home
building business with me, Iwould love to do that with you.
We could do that together, Ithink.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Yeah, I mean, we've got the skills.
I've done showers, I can dodrywall.
I've done a bunch of stuff.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
You know my wife knows all the decorative, uh,
artisanal wall, smooth Likeshe's master.
So I feel like between you, meand our spouses we could just
start building homes, and I meanjust pocketing that money to
the moon out there to the moon.
New podcast idea home strategyhome on the range.
(14:51):
Oh, home on the range go.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yes, there it is.
That's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
How two non-brothers went and started their own home
building business Home on theRange.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
The home that we've been meaning to.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Oh, they left their city-slicking corporate jobs to
go build homes.
Look at them now they're stillmiserable.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Turns out, it didn't matter whether they were working
the corporate jobs or forthemselves.
They still hate it.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
They just hate working because they're
millennials.
Yeah, I think this sounds likea great idea.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
I'm like you know Honestly, when you say things
like in that tone of voice andthat accent, I'm on board.
I don't even care what it is.
I heard nothing but positivity.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
It's a curse really, like I do have that hype factor
about me and it gets peopleexcited.
And then they're like, oh, Ijust bought into the most
terrible, awful idea.
Let's, let's take this offline,let's double click into it
later and uh.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
I have a plan.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
We can start building some homes yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Um follow up conversation for us to talk
about this Good.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Good, good, let's circle back Deep the
conversation.
I think we need morestakeholders at the table.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Yeah, I agree, yeah, um building, homes All right,
cool, all right, we'll see.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Okay, what do you got ?
What do you got for a topic?
Speaker 2 (16:27):
today I've got a problem.
Oh, I've got a situation that Ithought I was doing the right
thing.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Oh no, have I told you not to do this before?
Speaker 2 (16:40):
No, no Okay good.
This is actually something wetalk about and we have talked
about many times, and I think weboth agree that it should be an
okay thing to do.
Okay, but I did something and Idid it and it's not turning out
the way I was hoping for it toturn out.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Do we need to call HR ?
Speaker 2 (17:03):
There's no HR calling .
Okay, I think there's a bigmorale thing.
Oh no, okay, all right, let medish Let me lay it on you.
Let me lay it on you, thesituation.
So you and I, theoretically,are on the same page in this.
I'll see where you stand, payvisibility and understanding
(17:27):
what you're making, what yourpeers are making Generally.
You're on board with that,right I am.
Pay shouldn't be a thing that'shidden, you agree?
Agreed, we also both agree thatmost corporations hide that on
purpose because it creates weirdrelationships between people
and when they see pay disparityand they think they do more than
(17:48):
somebody, it creates a weirdsituation.
So most corporations just don'ttalk about pay and they don't
let you disclose your pay toothers.
They tell you you probablyshouldn't.
So nobody talks about pay, eventhough you should.
So I am, I would say, a moresenior manager.
I have managers underneath mewho also have people underneath
(18:09):
that and I thought, you know,raises were going around.
We did some cool stuff in mycompany where we re-leveled
certain pay grades so that theywere more competitive in the
market.
We wanted to keep those peopleon A good thing.
So, yeah, it's a great thing.
I think the company is doingthe right thing.
I'm happy they're evaluatingand looking at the market so we
can retain top talent.
So I said, okay, great, I'mgoing to share the pay bumps
(18:32):
with my more senior managers sothey can share it with their
people.
I thought that was a great idea.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Why is it not?
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Until I realized that my company compensates people
with more years of experiencemore than value, and it created
a weird situation with a youngermember of my team who's awesome
they do a great job.
They're younger.
And then they realized theperson that they manage on their
(19:02):
team is not far away from theirpay and, for whatever reason,
it didn't click in my head theyaren't aware of that, because I
just assumed they were alreadyaware.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
And I don't know why.
I know, yeah.
Why didn't a manager know whattheir direct was earning?
That's weird.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
I think it was because somebody transferred
teams and I just assumed thatthey got the documentation on
their team and they didn't, andso it created a weird situation.
I wouldn't want that.
They're like, hey, I want totalk to you about something and
they're like this member on ourteam they're struggling like
almost to a pip, but they have20 years of experience and I
(19:39):
have eight and I manage that andI'm almost getting paid the
same amount that they are thatdoesn't.
That doesn't feel right and Iwas like you're right, it
doesn't feel right, but the waythe company works and our pay
scale works is there's a rangeof bottom and a top and,
depending on years of experience, you can get your way to be
(20:01):
paid at the top of their tierand since your years of
experience are lower, you're inthe more lower half of your tier
, meaning you're very, veryclose.
And it was just an awkward.
Awkward situation because I waslike I totally overlooked that
when I sent the numbers and Ididn't even think to like check
hey, do you know how much yourteam is getting paid and so it
just created a super weirdsituation.
Now I'm questioning did I dothe right thing, or am I going
(20:22):
to lose this person becausethey're so great?
Speaker 1 (20:25):
You are in your 30s.
I'm not going to dox you, butyou're in your 30s.
Is this person you're talkingto also in their 30s?
They're a little younger, intheir 20s, okay, I mean.
So one.
I'm just going to blanketstatement this screw your
company's payment plan, right?
Like experience does not matter, it is all about action.
(20:50):
And like, screw that.
That's one thing I'm verygrateful for is I do feel like,
uh, I'm in an org where we payvery much based on not
experience but ability.
Like if you, if you get to theinterview and you show us you
can do what you say you want todo, then like we're going to
consider paying you what youthink you're worth.
Um, see, when I've had theseconversations before with people
(21:14):
, I actually had a conversationwith one of my friends and
coworkers a little while backand they told me how much they
made and they're like well, howmuch do you make?
And I'm like you don't want toknow?
And they're like is it double?
And I said more than.
And they're like that's crazy.
And I said yes, but how longhave I been doing this job?
And I didn't say like this job,like how long have I been in
(21:37):
this industry, which is 15 years, like they've been here for two
, coming on three, and I saidcould you do my job?
No, that's why and I said, likeI didn't linearly move my way
here there were big jumps alongthe way when I was able to
(21:59):
execute certain things thatother people couldn't right.
Like part of what I do is, youknow, messaging.
It is being able to tell a verycompact, tight story that
motivates sales.
You said earlier, though I tellyou things you get excited Like
that's my ability.
I honed that craft.
I use that craft for good.
That craft generates money formy company.
(22:22):
Not a lot of people can do whatI do, hence why the value is
what I am, and I'm able toexplain that to them.
And then by the end of itthey're like, yeah, no, I
totally get it.
And now they have a goal.
They know how they can get towhere I am in time, and they
could probably do it faster thanI can, because I spent seven
years wasting my life insoftware engineering, which got
(22:42):
me nothing.
In the span of things.
Had I gone to sales andmarketing much earlier, I'd be
making even more and I'd be evenfurther in my career.
So that's how I had thatconversation with them.
But because your company isstupid, you can't have that
conversation with them.
But because your company isstupid, you can't have that
conversation without besmirchingyour company, and that's what I
would do.
I would say this place sucks.
(23:03):
They don't appreciate talentand skill.
This is not a you and meproblem, this is a corporate
problem.
And if you don't like it,unfortunately, I think your best
effort is to seek employmentelsewhere where you can get paid
what you deserve, becausethey're not going to fix it for
you.
And you need to be very upfrontand clear with them about this,
because if you lead them on,they're going to resent you for
(23:24):
it, the same way I've resentedprevious bosses that you know
about at Big Corp that did thatto me.
Tell me oh, don't worry, bruce,next year you're going to get
it.
And then it's like no, we'regoing to give it to that
60-year-old guy with the caneover there on the inhaler
because he's been here longerthan you, even though you do
more work than he does.
Sorry, that's just the way itworks and that's how you learn
(23:45):
to hate your boss, hate yourcompany and become jaded, like
me.
So I think you need to have avery honest conversation about
the.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
And I would say, like you said in my 30s, not going
to dox me, but I'm younger formy role.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
You're younger.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
And what I would say is my company has invested in
promoting me because of the workthat I do, and so they've
figured out a way to say we'rejust going to keep promoting you
Because that's the way we'regoing to get him into more money
and that's the way he's goingto get paid.
And this person we've done thesame.
You know they've been promotedtwice now and so, like we're
(24:29):
trying to do the same thing.
But it is tough because, likeHR, when they're bringing people
on board, they work within asalary grade, a floor and a
ceiling.
And I told I do get.
There is merit to saying, whenyou're hiring somebody, you
don't know how good they are,and so you base it off years of
experience and you're saying,hey, listen, this person's got
(24:52):
15 years of experience doingwhat we want them to do.
They interviewed.
Well, you want to hire them.
We should pay them more thansomeone who is younger in their
career.
That we don't know, Likethey're not tested and tried.
And we don't know We're're nottested and tried and we don't
we're taking a bet to know ifthey're going to be good or not,
and so I get it, Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Challenge.
You should catch that in theinterview process.
If not, you're not doing goodinterviews.
And, like, I will elaborate onthat.
If you look at their resume andthey say I drove 400% growth on
our social media platform whenI left the company, we had over
3 million followers on Instagram.
(25:32):
We had 2 million followers onFacebook and I'm the one who led
that growth, you better believe.
The first question I'm askingthem on that call is hey,
breakdown.
I want to know exactly how youdid this and did you do it by
yourself or did you do it in ateam?
And depending on how theyanswer, that question is going
to tell me whether or not theyare worth whatever they're
(25:53):
asking for.
Like, I don't care about theexperience.
If you know how to do that,that's way more important than
any amount of time you spent inthe role not learning how to do
things right, because you couldbe learning how to do things
wrong right.
That was me in dev.
I wasn't getting better in mytime there.
I was getting worse.
I was learning bad habits, likeI wasn't improving.
If I was still in dev today,I'd probably be making less
(26:14):
money uh, doing worse work,because time does not equal
quality Time just equals timethe ability to go off and
actually execute, because youeither have the drive or the
energy or the know-how.
That's what you're paying for,and you should be able to suss
that out through good questionsand interviewing.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Well, I think it's also like I was thinking about
it a little bit.
I'm like is this the person'sfault for just not knowing their
worth when they accepted therole versus someone who's more
senior?
They can kind of suss that outto be like I'm not going to
accept your low offer.
I've been doing this for 15years.
I need to have a higher offer,and they negotiated into where
(26:53):
they are.
Someone who's more juniordoesn't necessarily know how
much they're worth, and so itkind of puts them as a
disadvantage.
And that's this person.
It's like they've been promotedtwice to where they are.
They now manage people that areolder than them and have much
more experience, but they dogreat work and they're doing an
awesome job, and so it's kind ofon them to be like you didn't
negotiate well for what you wereworth and so we gave you an
(27:15):
offer and you accepted the offer, and that also is on the
corporation.
You should pay them whatthey're worth ideally up front,
but also I think HR,unfortunately, and BidCorp
they're worth ideally up front,but also I think HR,
unfortunately in big corethey're saying how can we get
them with the lowest possibleoffer?
And then it's up to the managerto kind of fight for the right
amount, and so it's a little biton me as the manager, or not
(27:37):
fighting for more money, to belike listen, they're probably
going to accept this offer.
We need to give them morebecause they're great, they're
going to be a front flight riskin a year?
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
It's so interesting.
I'm like going back and forthin my head.
I'm like, was this on me, wasit on them?
And how do I remediate it?
And that's the hardest part.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
You need to go to your boss or HR ASAP and say
this person's a flight risk andthen tell them why.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Yeah, and then be like hey, we got to find a way
to get the hand raises, you gotto make it right, and the faster
you do it, the better they willfeel about it.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
They'll be like wow, Clark really cares about me and
wants me to stay here because hewent and did this thing for me.
Like, you will earn so manypoints if you're able to pull
that off.
Yeah, because it's the rightthing to do for them.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Yeah, I agree.
Yeah, it's weird too, becauseyou can't like take away pay
from somebody.
So even if this person's goingon a tip, it's like you can
never take away from theirsalary.
But honestly, like that, I'mthinking.
I've been thinking about thatmore and I'm like, well, what if
it worked the other way?
What if it's performance basedand if you don't perform well,
your salary starts getting cutevery year rather than going up.
(28:43):
Like that's honestly reallyinteresting.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
That is technically how I get paid, because 30% of
my total income comes from mybonus and when I do well and I
hit my goals, I get 100%.
Unfortunately, some of my bonusis also tied to the performance
of the company, which iscompletely out of my control.
But you know, that is what itis.
So when if my team or if Idon't do well during a quarter,
(29:12):
we feel the sting in ourpaycheck right, it's like I'm
not going to get that full bonuspayout, which hurts, but it
does motivate you to do betternext quarter, like it is a great
mechanism for that.
I do think more people should beon a OTE system on target
earnings versus just flat.
Here's your full salary,because that is how you get to
(29:33):
your PIP situation.
You would have found that out alot sooner had they been on a
bonus structure where it's like,yeah, you have not hit your
goals for the last year, you'vemissed your entire, you've
missed 30% of your paycheck,which saves the company money
and it does not reward poorperformance, but it certainly
beats the situation of well, I'mgoing to get paid, no matter
what.
(29:54):
I can just hang out here andpull a salary.
You know, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Yeah, it's like a pro for the worker, because this
person that's not performingwell, they're getting paid
really well for their position,even though they're not
performing perfectly, and so,like it is interesting, it's
like they can kind of just floatin this limbo state and it's up
to us like likely, you know, apip that's coming soon.
And it's an interestingsituation because I'm just like
(30:18):
thinking about how you handlethis, how you make it right, how
you get somebody to perform and, to your point, I think the
incentive structure, especiallywith bonuses, are levers that
the company can pull to keeppeople motivated, because at the
end of the day, that impactswhat they get paid, because we
do the whole performance.
Like it's based on, you know,if you meet or exceeds
expectations, like you actuallyget more of a bonus if you
(30:41):
exceed expectations.
But it's not like your OTEsituation where it's very much
like number-based and it's easyfor you to understand.
These are my goals and this ishow I hit them.
For us it's like it's not thatblack and white and we need to
do a better job as a company tomake that black and white so
they can try to hit the exceedsor whatever the highest one.
(31:01):
I can't even remember what thehighest rating is, but that
would get them more money at theend of the day.
And that will keep them moremotivated.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
It definitely seems like a little bit of your
company is kind of operating ina legacy corporate model,
because even when I left bigcorp they were doing this, this
whole bonus structure, this goaloriented structure, and like it
did motivate me to do thethings that I said I was going
to do because I wanted my bonus,did motivate me to do the
things that I said I was goingto do because I wanted my bonus.
I don't think this exactlyhelps in your case because
(31:32):
there's still the individual whois a top performer that is not
getting paid what they're valuedat.
But that just sounds like areal, like an honest to goodness
emergency out of band, eitherpromotion or pay bump, which is
not difficult to do, especiallywhen there's reasonable cause
for it.
Right, Like you go to HR, yougo to your boss and say, look,
(31:52):
they have a direct report thatmakes almost as much as they do
the direct report's on a PIP.
This is creating a demoralizingsituation for them.
I don't want them to be atflight risk.
We need them to stay at thiscompany.
I think like to remedy thesituation, we just need to do an
out of band promotion and uh,it'll.
It'll just solve all of this,as opposed to making them wait
and potentially, you know,hurting the situation in the
(32:13):
case that we lose them Right,Like just got to lay it out
crystal clear.
Put the onus on HR and yourboss to make it happen, but like
I do feel like this is a prettyeasy solve.
Uh, and also in the future,moving forward, like get your
bands right, man, Get your paybands right.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Yeah, it's been an interesting learning, but I
think to your point, that is theright thing to do and I've been
fortunate enough that I've hadmanagers in the past even
managers now that I got out ofband raises because they wanted
to ensure that I was not a flatrisk and they probably looked
they didn't tell me this, butthey probably looked across the
board and been like holy cow,he's the same level as these
(32:51):
people and they have paid thismuch.
Like we got to figure out howto get them you know the right
pay.
And it was funny, even in depth, like I transferred to a new
team and he literally pulled measide, like our very first one.
When he's like, do you know howlittle you're getting paid
compared to people who do farless work than you?
Speaker 1 (33:06):
And I'm like no, I have no idea.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
And he's like I'm immediately giving you a 20%
raise.
He's like this is crazy, theamount you're getting paid
compared to these other people,and so like that's what a good
manager should do, and I thinkyou're absolutely right.
So I think that's my duty is tonow fight for that and make it
right make it right.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
It is your duty.
I'm very curious what willhappen because, like this, this
can help you inform decisionsabout your own role in the
company moving forward right,because you want them to do this
for you, if you ever foundyourself in this situation.
And it just like it's, it's amirror for corporate culture and
what your business thinks aboutthe individual contributors
that work there.
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Yeah, I've got to be more judicious as a manager.
I'm putting on my managerhealth.
I have to be more judicious onwhen hiring somebody, when we
send them an offer, making sureyou've considered those things
and say okay, they're young buttheir results speak for
themselves.
And look across your team.
Do a little calibration, as welike to call it in the corporate
world.
Do a little calibration and seewhere everybody stands.
(34:03):
Be okay, well, this person's ona pip, they have more
experience, but this personseems awesome.
We should pay them what wethink they're worth.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Yeah that's the right thing to do yeah, thank you for
talking to us of course happyto help.
It's not an easy anytime there'sanytime it's pay.
It's not easy and, and you know, for me it's easy because I can
rationalize it to other people.
So if they feel I don't tellpeople what I make, but I do
tell them, you know, in therange in adjacency to their own
(34:32):
one, because I don't actuallyknow how much I make, it's weird
, right, like because of mybonus structure I make a lot but
it's not crystal clear to meever and I don't want to do the
math like I literally have to domath to how much I get paid.
So it's just easier to use likegeneric terms.
But I have no problem talkingabout it with anybody because I
think I can always rationalizewhy I do get paid what I do and
(34:54):
I think it's a reasonable amountfor what I do.
So value drives unless I takethat job for the vp role at that
other company for half theprice.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
So you know I say you do it.
You you know what?
After this whole conversation,yeah, why not?
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Why not?
You will show up to my houseand I'll be doing something from
the ceiling, don't you jump.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Don't you jump.
Thank you for this conversation.
You have helped somebody.
You can no longer leave thisworld.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Well, I guess, when you put it that way, I guess,
when you put it that way, I'llhang out for a couple of weeks,
just a couple.
We'll see how next week.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
Just get a couple more episodes of corporate
strategy and even though thelast one was the last one the
last one was well, the last fourwere the last one, so now this
might be the last one, but weactually know this will not be
the last one, cause we have onemore episode next week.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
That is a guest episode, that's true excited for
oh, it can't be the last one wegot ta.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Yeah, we gotta do that yeah you're right, all
right.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Well, no bungee cord in the living room till three
weeks from now.
It's gonna be so much fun.
I'm gonna just bounce aroundall day.
It's gonna be great.
It's gonna be great.
I can't.
Why do we did it.
I did it again in 36 minutes,no less.
Look at that.
Efficient, efficient.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Nice.
Do we have anything else?
Do we have memes?
I think you're up for memes.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
No, we don't have memes.
No one plays games anymore.
No one listens to the pod, noone plays games.
It's sad.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
We got a meme in the corporate memes, but we didn't
get a meme in the what do youmeme.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Corporate memes.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
You don't even know our channels anymore.
You're adding these channels.
I know our channels.
You don't even know ourchannels anymore.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
You're adding these channels.
I know our channels.
It's just not relevant to theprevious episode.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
But it is a funny meme.
It is a very funny meme.
It is a funny meme, but I agreeit's not relevant.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
That's the problem.
You know what.
If you want to play, if youwant to play the game what do
you mean?
Which we, which we described,means our mouth parts you got to
join the discord.
It's super easy Go to the shownotes link tree, click, join
discord and then, in the what doyou mean channel, you will post
a meme of your own creationthat has something to do with
(37:08):
something we said in a previousepisode, and then one of us is
forced to explain it with ourmouth parts on pod, because
that's the most interestingthing you can do on pods.
We also have a channel called itIs it me or is it corporate,
and in that channel you can doforward, slash, confess and type
in whatever the heck you want,and it will completely anonymize
the confession and then we willread it out loud and determine
(37:30):
whether or not it was in factyou or it was in fact corporate.
And we never, we never waver.
It's factual, it's truthful,trust me.
Try it out, do it for the nextepisode, it's fine.
Plus, we have a new channelcalled is it ai, where you can
post a picture and we need tofigure out if it's ai or not.
Please put ai in the file name.
(37:50):
If it is, those are our gamesthat we can't play, because we
don't have anything to play with.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
We got to reinvigorate the channels.
We got to bring them back.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
Discord calls for aid .
Clark, you need to get in thereand start posting.
I want 10 posts a day,Otherwise you're not getting
your bonus 10 posts a day, oh myGod.
You're not getting your bonus.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
How much, what percentage, what percentage of
my bonus?
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Your bonus is 30% of your paycheck.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Ooh.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
You better get 10 posts a day, you better get on
it.
This is motivation, qualityposting.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Not in shitification posting.
No, I want quality posts If youdon't know what to do you do it
Go back and listen to our lastepisode.
Was it the last episode?
Speaker 1 (38:32):
two was last episode if we spent the first 20 minutes
talking about in shitificationa real thing, by the way, not
something that we just made up.
It's a real horrible thingthat's happening all around us
all around, everywhere, everyday, every day, everywhere all
the time I saw I mean likebetween last episode and this
one, I saw it happen like geez,it's just, it's just happening.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
I can't escape it, you can't.
Terrible, it's a fly cannotstop it.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
I wish, I wish life was a wave and I had a surfboard
.
But I think in in this analogy,a surfboard is a billion
dollars.
So you know, I think that's,that's how you ride the wave of
life.
So I agree, unfortunately, yougot anything else, clark.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
No, that's it Like share.
Subscribe.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
It's really easy.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Yeah, ring the bell.
Even if you don't like somebody, share this with them.
Make the corporate world abetter place.
We did a whole series, a wholeseries on how you appreciate
other people in the workplace,even if you don't like their
work or they don't do a thingyou can find ways to still
appreciate them and hopefullymotivate them to help you and
feel appreciated in theworkplace.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
I couldn't agree more .
I love that series.
If you haven't listened to itin its entirety, you are missing
out.
It's the most research andserious we've ever been and I
feel like there's like itimproved my life.
It can improve your life.
In addition to that, in thelink tree you'll also find that
we have a feet pics subscriptionservice, so if you want to see
the bottoms of my or Clark'sfeet, you can sign up.
(40:02):
It is $5 a month and we uploadmultiple feet pics per week, so
do sign up for that if you wantto see these piggly wigglies
unsocked.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Don't you ever say those words around me again.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
We've also unveiled our new virtual companion
program, craig Chatbot.
If you would like to date aCraig, we have captured his
essence and if you go in thelink tree, you click date a
Craig his essence and if you goin the link tree, you click data
craig and you can have apersonal relationship with our
(40:38):
very own podcast recorder.
Craig keeps the podcast ontrack, he's our number one
producer and now he can be yourlover sign up ten dollars a
month oh ten ten, five for feet,ten for craig you know I can
say it's worth it.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
He's consistent, he's reliable and he's just a good.
He will record yourconversations.
He will record yourconversation and you can
download a transcript after.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
Have you seen how many people are just in absolute
shambles with GPT-5 and howtheir AI boyfriends, girlfriends
and husbands have basicallyeffectively died?
Speaker 2 (41:14):
No.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
This is the state we're in Clark.
This is the state we are in.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
I don't like this corner of the internet.
I'm just going to stay awayfrom this corner of the internet
.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
It's not a corner, my friend.
I guarantee you know someonewho is dating a chatbot.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
I guarantee you?
Please tell me now.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
I'm telling you now it is like a catastrophe has
happened.
It is like Order 66 and theJedi have all been slain.
What OpenAI has done haseffectively killed just millions
of chatboyfriends andgirlfriends that these people
relied on, and it is there inshambles.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
That is incredibly terrible news.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
OpenAI has since realized this mistake with their
latest engine, because now thebot's like I think you need
therapy, I think you should gethelp.
I am not a real person, pleasestop treating me as such.
So they're just devastated bythis, and OpenAI has been like
well in order to keep theboyfriend-girlfriends.
This would cost us billions ofadditional dollars a year in
server fees, so I don't knowwhat to do.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
They did the responsible thing.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
They did the responsible thing by tuning it
back and saying I am not yourcompanion, but in doing so they
have just lit a fire.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
The chatbots call for aid in doing so.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
they have just lit a fire, Wow.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
The chatbots call for aid.
Hey, raise your pickaxe, raiseyour pitchfork, raise whatever
weapon you got and bring backthe AI.
Boyfriends and girlfriends.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
Let's go burn down a data center.
Let's go For the chatbots.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
For the chatbots.
For the chatbots, let's go onstrike.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
That's, that's what's going on right now.
So, uh, guarantee you.
Guarantee you, you know someone, there's probably a listener
and listen like I'm notinsulting you.
If this is, if this feels likeI'm insulting you, I'm not
insulting you.
You live your life, you do yourthing.
It's not my thing.
I hate ai with every fiber ofmy being.
So why would I, why would Iever talk to a chatbot, let
(43:14):
alone give it my affection orattention?
I don't even like it for itsgeneral use case.
So I'm just an AI racist.
I hate it.
I'm living up to my ownstandards here.
But no shame on you.
You go burn down that open AIdata center.
I support you.
Live your dream.
Burn it down.
I don't know that.
I'll come with you.
(43:34):
Take pics.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
But if you subscribe to our fee pic service, I'll
come with you.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
If you subscribe for $5 a month, we will join you and
we will help you burn down thedata centers.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
You're not getting a sneak peek, though that comes
with a subscription only.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
Oh well, of course.
Of course.
Why buy the cow when the milkis free?
In this case, the milk is ourtest.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
We got to quit this podcast.
Why are we still here?
Why are we doing this?
Speaker 1 (44:09):
We had a really tight 36 minutes and I thought how
could I ruin this?
How could I just absolutelydestroy all of the goodwill we
built?
We have to undo this and wehave to undo it in the worst way
possible.
You could make good moneyselling feet pics online, clark.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
I'm just saying like, if you want to do it, for
corporate strategy?
Speaker 1 (44:29):
we could, your feet, those hairy little gremlins.
How do you know they're hairyFor corporate strategy?
We could your feet, those hairylittle gremlins.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
How do you know they're hairy?
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Oh, I know, Subscribe and you'll find out.
You get it Now.
You get it now, you get it.
My um, my brother knows someonewho got offered on a live
stream to sell their socks forlike 160 dollars.
(45:01):
Oh my god, he didn't do it.
Can you believe that that'swild?
If someone was like hey bruce,if you send me your socks for
160 dollars, I'll pay you 160dollars, I'd be like that covers
the pod for a year.
Where do you want the socks?
I will wear them for you, Iwill sweat in them, I will run a
mile in these socks and thensell them to you and we will go
(45:21):
ad free for a year.
So just throwing that out there.
If you want it, I will do thatfor you.
Yeah, forget, buy me a coffee,just buy my socks, then we'll go
ad free guys, come on, it's notthat hard.
It's not that hard.
It's really not just give usyour money for weird stuff like
(45:42):
socks and feet pics.
I mean, this is the internet.
This is the internet we live intoday.
It used to be nice little youknow wikipedia pages.
It used to be fun, little geocities, websites about local
bands.
It used to be the crunch wrapsupreme for 99 cents.
And look at us now.
Look at what capitalism hasdone to all of us.
(46:04):
Worst, isn't it great it's so.
You see the wrinkles under myeyes like do you see how old I
am?
Speaker 2 (46:11):
I wasn am.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
I wasn't this old a year ago.
Just telling you that right nowit's happening quick.
This decade the 20s, theroaring 20s is aging me more
than anything in my life hasever aged me.
So just you know.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
Keep that in mind, just keep that in mind.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
Yeah, well, on that note, thanks for listening to
Corporate Strategy Podcast.
It could have been an Just keepthat in mind, because this is a
word of mouth podcast.
(46:49):
Obviously we use pseudonymsbecause we don't want our real
identities out there, so wecan't market things through our
traditional means.
So please share with others Ifyou think it's valuable.
Share an episode you like.
If you like the appreciationseries, send that to them.
That's a really good series.
It's going to make everyone'slife better if they follow it in
the workplace.
So share that around.
Don't be embarrassed because wedon't talk about feet in that
one.
I don't think.
(47:09):
And uh, we appreciate you fordoing it and we just appreciate
you for listening.
As always, thanks per usual.
This could have been an email.
I could have put it inconfluence, but I didn't.
Uh, I'm Bruce and I'm Luke andyou're on mute.
We'll see you next week.
No.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I was going to see how long I'd say anything and
then I thought about it.
I'm like that's a terriblething to do on a podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Burn and pop.
You know what.
You know what people onpodcasts love.
They love it.
It's silence Poll.
Listener poll.
How many of you listen to thison like 8x speed?
Second listener poll.
How many of you listen to thislike 8x speed?
Second listener poll.
How many of you listen to this?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
I want to know yeah, look, maybe do the first one
first, but no, no, it's fine.
No, no, I like your work, justdo it no one listens to this pod
anymore.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
No one cares about corporate strategy.
The podcast could have been anemail on bruce and I'm clark and
you're on mute.
Oh, thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Yeah, I wonder how you doing.
I wonder you know I have to getafter you for something no,
please don't.
It's something.
It's something you just said.
You said no one listened tothis podcast, but we just had
someone reach out about ourfavorite thing ever the baby
(01:05):
onesie.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Uh-huh, which I, which motivated me to go look at
the spread shop.
Did you know we had like 10sales this year, did we really?
Yeah, well, the thing is.
So here it listener, dearlistener.
We don't get money fromanything sold in the spread shop
, so it doesn't notify us whensales happen.
Um, it did make me realize,though, like one I would love
(01:28):
for us to get, like right now,it's the logo, it's the
corporate logo, but like wecould, you know, because this is
a nonprofit or truly anonprofit organization.
If y'all have any funny memes orlogos, like if there's an
artistic bone at any of yourbody and you want it on a shirt,
we would be happy to like addthat to the store and give you
credit.
You know art by whomever.
(01:48):
And if you wanted to list a funcorporate strategy thing on the
store, happy to do that.
One and two, there are otheroptions for baby onesies and
baby beanies and unitards.
So if there is an item that youwould like the logo on that we
don't have listed, I can find itand list it, guarantee it.
(02:09):
I don't know about the qualityof it, but it seems like, for
the most part, the, the mug webought still going strong after
2000 washes.
The shirt I have has faded, um,but that's just shirts, right
like shirts.
So you know, you kind of getwhat you get, but I feel like
the prices aren't bad.
So all this is to say we don'tprofit off it.
(02:29):
If you want something tosupport the pod, do it in the
bias of coffee.
If you want something foryourself, do it through the
spread shop, and if you'remissing something, reach out to
us through the Discord, whichyou can get to in the show notes
, and we can make any of yourdreams come true.
It's really easy for us andyeah, Nice sales pitch.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
By the way, I still want the shirt that says hashtag
big cack energy.
We can do that.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Make it.
You're the AI dude.
Go, have the AI make the shirt.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
I've done this whole entire thing just for a little
side project I do of like howgood is AI at making imagery and
like, keeping characters?
That's what I thought it was asof like two months ago.
It was god awful.
It has gotten much, much betterwith the right prompting.
Much better with the rightprompting.
And you might have to challengeme on this, because I might
(03:25):
have to try to make my belovedBig Cac Energy shirt in my
graffiti logo with some funcolors.
Maybe I'll do it with AI,because I tried something
recently and I was blown away.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Blown away.
So here's why I stand by theoriginal statement.
Does it make better images?
Yes, it does.
It doesn't get the fingerswrong anymore.
There's a lot of things that AIhas fixed that were inherently
wrong with it.
Question for you Can you stilltell if an image is AI instantly
(03:55):
by looking at it?
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Ooh, these last ones, I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
I am not so sure, do a test in the Discord, do a test
.
Go find, make some images, findsome real images and see if we
can guess which ones are AI andwhich ones are not.
New game for the show AI or not.
Is it AI?
Is it AI?
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, we might have to do this.
I might have to look up.
I'll make a channel.
I'll make a channel.
All right, let's do it.
We got new game show.
People never visit all thesechannels that we create, so you
know, this will be the one thingwe do.
We do it a single time.
We never talk about it again.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
You know what?
I'm doing it right now DiscordGo in there, play the game, put
a picture in there.
Is it AI?
We'll do it live in the pod,but you do have to let us know
if it is or it isn't.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Otherwise then it's the wicks of everyone's time.
I have to make sure that Idon't.
Can you see the file name inDiscord?
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Yeah, if you click into it, and maybe that's the
thing, in the file name put AIor don't put AI, and we won't
look at it until we guess.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
I like that.
Yeah, I'll name the filespecifically AI and not AI, and
we'll see what you guys come upwith.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Let's do this.
I'm ready.
I'm ready to be crushed anddestroyed.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
It's my life in general.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
I feel like a crushed and destroyed person just every
day now.
So let's make it happen on thepod too.
Let's remove my one safe space.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
If anyone listened to the last episode they would
know that is a hundred percenttrue.
I was.
I was worried about you.
I was about to drive over toyour home, knock on your door
and just make sure that you werealive.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
You, you might've been surprised.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
I'm just saying those really high ceilings you have
are perfect for certainactivities.
I'm just saying those reallyhigh ceilings you have are
perfect for certain activities.
I'm just saying Trampolines yes, that's exactly what I was
talking about Bungee cording,trampolines, rope climbing Ooh
home.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Home.
I can't say the words Homeoperated bungee cord.
I want't, you got it.
You can't say the words Homeoperated bungee cord.
I want to go.
What could go wrong?
What could go right?
Speaker 2 (06:13):
You know, this reminds me of a amazing TV show
America's Funniest Home Videos.
Oh my gosh, that's a relic.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
It is a relic.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
And that's for YouTube.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
I love you killed that show it really did.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
It did, yeah.
And now you have like chive tvand all that which still plays
at the really crappy restaurantsyou go to.
You don't even need it.
Youtube's all you need.
People do plenty of stupidstuff on youtube, literally
infinite stupidity there's.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
there's more stupidity than you can ever
watch in your life on YouTube.
Enjoy.
That's amazing.
It is crazy America's FunniestHome Video.
Last week we talked about theTaco Bell.
This week we're talking aboutAFV, right?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Or AVF.
Is it America's Funniest Home?
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Video AFV.
Afv.
It was Bob Saget who was thesecond guy.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
The second guy was pretty good too.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
I don't care about the second guy, bob saget was
the guy.
He's.
All I remember was the guy, butlike it was fun, he was fine
and the fact that I remember hisname is not a good indication
but like dang, that was a whole.
That was literally like aphenomenon.
Everyone watched that show.
Oh yeah, growing up, and thenyoutube happened and just dead.
You don't need that showanymore, isn't it great?
William johnson came in and waslike watch me do this every
(07:27):
week on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Isn't it just wild to think about times pre-YouTube
and pre-internet of how youtalked about things.
There was no real instantaccess to niche-related things,
right?
Instant access to like nicherelated things, right, you
couldn't find specific interestbecause it was like Nope,
everybody watches America'sfunniest home videos at 7 PM on
(07:50):
Thursdays and that's what youtalk about for the next week,
before the next show comes out.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Like there was no do you see that video where the dad
got hit in the nuts?
That was all of them, that wasonly all of them and they were
funny.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
They slept every time , they never got old.
But now it's like hey, do youknow this niche youtuber that
has 1 000, 1.8 000 followers onyoutube?
And they're like no, there'sbillions of those people now.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Hey, have you guys seen this new challenge on
tiktok?
It's called flatlining.
You basically like go dead fora few minutes and then your best
friend revives you.
It's so cool, cool, you've gotto try it out.
You've got to see these videos.
They're so funny, man, they'relegally dead.
Should we do that and yourevive me?
Yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
That'll be the unveiling, the unveiling of our
faces.
And then it will be.
Will Clark survive or will hejust die right now?
Speaker 1 (08:41):
You can commune with Slaanesh for a few minutes, and
then we'll bring you back toreal life.
So, should we talk about?
Speaker 2 (08:48):
something.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
No, how are you doing ?
Speaker 2 (08:52):
I'm doing.
Okay, vibe check.
Vibe check Pinkies up.
I'm pinkies up.
Pinkies are up.
I'm vibe checking.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
I'm pretty good.
I'm in the middle of lovehearing that I'm in the middle
of the move.
I love moving sucks.
I love the box no, it doesn'tmuch.
You're so wrong okay, okay, letme get this right.
The process of moving sucks.
Being in a brand newenvironment in the home is the
best thing no, moving's great,disagree 100.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
One you need to pack up everything.
Like everything you have.
You could put it in a box.
So, one, there's the evaluation.
Like, do I still like thisthing?
It's true, can I, can I throwit away?
I love that process.
Two, you get to dust everything.
So it's like oh, where I gonext it's gonna be a clean,
dust-free environment.
Three, it's like oh, thedecoration possibilities.
I've been so constrained inthis current environment.
(09:41):
I cannot wait to pack all thisup and then unpack it in a new,
fun, visually interesting way.
What is wrong with you?
Moving is the best.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
I would move every day if I could.
You're a sociopath is whatyou're telling the people right
now.
You are insane.
I like actually the thingsyou're saying.
I can get on board with that.
What I don't like is the bendover.
Pick up the box, go load it inthe truck.
It's a free workout.
Go back in, go grab another.
See, no, no, no Use your knees.
Destroy me.
My body is physicallydismantled and then you end up
(10:14):
taking something off a wall andthen you rip the paint off the
wall and you're like gosh, dangit.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Now I got to use the paint.
You're going to have the wholehouse repainted before you sell
it.
It comes with territory.
And secondly, your body is atemple and you take much better
care of yours than I take careof mine.
You can lift dog.
You can lift real good.
I can't lift at all and I loveit.
I love to lift.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Let me lift something I'm going to go lift something
after this podcast.
You're hired.
You can come over here, I'llhave you lift something for me.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
I got the job.
I'm quitting my real job.
I'm going to help Clark move.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
This is a bad decision on your part because
this is like a couple day thing,so don't put your job for this
job, you know.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Dang Dang.
I was really looking forward toquitting my job.
I was so excited too.
Well, I mean, you still can.
No, the market's terrible rightnow.
I got nowhere to go.
I got nowhere to go.
I got no one to love me.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
I actually don't know anything about the job market
right now.
Is that good or bad?
Speaker 1 (11:11):
It's terrible.
It's probably the worst it'sbeen in our lifetime.
You know, just a good sign ofthe times.
Just in general, yeah, yeah,especially for just like
anything that could possibly bedone by an ai, or like helped by
an ai.
Good luck.
Good luck finding a job, bud.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
good luck yeah, it's true, because I think all the
companies are like freezinghiring, because they're like,
well, what if we just leverageai to make it that much better
and maybe we don't need to hirethese more, these, these
additional people?
Speaker 1 (11:41):
I got someone who reached out to me on LinkedIn
offering me a VP role for halfof what I make today holy cow,
that's wild yeah so take thetitle dude.
Take the title.
I mean, there is part of methat one I care so much more
(12:03):
about title than pay.
It's not even a question, true,you have said.
But the second half of that isis it more work than I'm doing
today?
And the answer is probably yes.
So nah, I'm not gonna do morework for less, but I will do the
same amount of work for bettertitle for less money.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah, I hear that.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
That's my formula.
So I mean, you know, considerthis me on the market.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Is this you saying that you're open to?
Speaker 1 (12:28):
work?
No, because unfortunately Ihave to get to either an exit or
an acquisition in my currentrole.
Otherwise I'd be walking awayfrom just free money.
I'm hanging out.
But the second my goldenhandcuffs are unlocked and I can
do that prison walk free.
(12:48):
Well, firstly, I'm taking a yearoff work.
I'm putting this out here,right here, right now I'm taking
a year off of work period.
Yeah, I need it.
I'm so excited for it.
I can't wait and I hope in thatyear things get better, because
if they get worse, I'm justscrewed either way and I think
I'm going to go be a FedExdelivery man.
(13:09):
Like I think that's what I'mgoing to do.
I know a guy who's a FedExdelivery person and he said it's
the worst thing in the world.
I challenge him to come do myjob.
Fair enough, because whateverthe physical strain is, I
guarantee you it cannot completewith the mental anguish I deal
(13:30):
with from the moment I open myeyes in the morning to the
moment I close my eyes when I goto sleep.
So you know, bet I would loveto work.
Having done physical laborbefore, I would love to go back
to a physical labor job and notuse my brain anymore.
It just sounds magical to me.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
There is something rewarding about like doing
physical, like I'm doing a bunchof house projects while we're
moving because we're movingstuff, and then I'm like, oh, I
should probably fix this beforesomeone should buy it.
And there's something sorewarding about like getting
your hands dirty cutting up somewood.
Yeah, stick your hands togetherusing a drill and you're just
like well, I did that.
I did that physical thing rightthere, not just all that
(14:09):
computer stuff that I always do.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
I have a physical thing to be proud of, that I did
you know, clark, if you everwanted to like start a home
building business with me, Iwould love to do that with you.
We could do that together, Ithink.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Yeah, I mean, we've got the skills.
I've done showers, I can dodrywall.
I've done a bunch of stuff.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
You know my wife knows all the decorative, uh,
artisanal wall, smooth Likeshe's master.
So I feel like between you, meand our spouses we could just
start building homes, and I meanjust pocketing that money to
the moon out there to the moon.
New podcast idea home strategyhome on the range.
(14:51):
Oh, home on the range go.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yes, there it is.
That's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
How two non-brothers went and started their own home
building business Home on theRange.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
The home that we've been meaning to.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Oh, they left their city-slicking corporate jobs to
go build homes.
Look at them now they're stillmiserable.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Turns out, it didn't matter whether they were working
the corporate jobs or forthemselves.
They still hate it.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
They just hate working because they're
millennials.
Yeah, I think this sounds likea great idea.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
I'm like you know Honestly, when you say things
like in that tone of voice andthat accent, I'm on board.
I don't even care what it is.
I heard nothing but positivity.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
It's a curse really, like I do have that hype factor
about me and it gets peopleexcited.
And then they're like, oh, Ijust bought into the most
terrible, awful idea.
Let's, let's take this offline,let's double click into it
later and uh.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
I have a plan.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
We can start building some homes yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Um follow up conversation for us to talk
about this Good.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Good, good, let's circle back Deep the
conversation.
I think we need morestakeholders at the table.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Yeah, I agree, yeah, um building, homes All right,
cool, all right, we'll see.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Okay, what do you got ?
What do you got for a topic?
Speaker 2 (16:27):
today I've got a problem.
Oh, I've got a situation that Ithought I was doing the right
thing.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Oh no, have I told you not to do this before?
Speaker 2 (16:40):
No, no Okay good.
This is actually something wetalk about and we have talked
about many times, and I think weboth agree that it should be an
okay thing to do.
Okay, but I did something and Idid it and it's not turning out
the way I was hoping for it toturn out.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Do we need to call HR ?
Speaker 2 (17:03):
There's no HR calling .
Okay, I think there's a bigmorale thing.
Oh no, okay, all right, let medish Let me lay it on you.
Let me lay it on you, thesituation.
So you and I, theoretically,are on the same page in this.
I'll see where you stand, payvisibility and understanding
(17:27):
what you're making, what yourpeers are making Generally.
You're on board with that,right I am.
Pay shouldn't be a thing that'shidden, you agree?
Agreed, we also both agree thatmost corporations hide that on
purpose because it creates weirdrelationships between people
and when they see pay disparityand they think they do more than
(17:48):
somebody, it creates a weirdsituation.
So most corporations just don'ttalk about pay and they don't
let you disclose your pay toothers.
They tell you you probablyshouldn't.
So nobody talks about pay, eventhough you should.
So I am, I would say, a moresenior manager.
I have managers underneath mewho also have people underneath
(18:09):
that and I thought, you know,raises were going around.
We did some cool stuff in mycompany where we re-leveled
certain pay grades so that theywere more competitive in the
market.
We wanted to keep those peopleon A good thing.
So, yeah, it's a great thing.
I think the company is doingthe right thing.
I'm happy they're evaluatingand looking at the market so we
can retain top talent.
So I said, okay, great, I'mgoing to share the pay bumps
(18:32):
with my more senior managers sothey can share it with their
people.
I thought that was a great idea.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Why is it not?
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Until I realized that my company compensates people
with more years of experiencemore than value, and it created
a weird situation with a youngermember of my team who's awesome
they do a great job.
They're younger.
And then they realized theperson that they manage on their
(19:02):
team is not far away from theirpay and, for whatever reason,
it didn't click in my head theyaren't aware of that, because I
just assumed they were alreadyaware.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
And I don't know why.
I know, yeah.
Why didn't a manager know whattheir direct was earning?
That's weird.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
I think it was because somebody transferred
teams and I just assumed thatthey got the documentation on
their team and they didn't, andso it created a weird situation.
I wouldn't want that.
They're like, hey, I want totalk to you about something and
they're like this member on ourteam they're struggling like
almost to a pip, but they have20 years of experience and I
(19:39):
have eight and I manage that andI'm almost getting paid the
same amount that they are thatdoesn't.
That doesn't feel right and Iwas like you're right, it
doesn't feel right, but the waythe company works and our pay
scale works is there's a rangeof bottom and a top and,
depending on years of experience, you can get your way to be
(20:01):
paid at the top of their tierand since your years of
experience are lower, you're inthe more lower half of your tier
, meaning you're very, veryclose.
And it was just an awkward.
Awkward situation because I waslike I totally overlooked that
when I sent the numbers and Ididn't even think to like check
hey, do you know how much yourteam is getting paid and so it
just created a super weirdsituation.
Now I'm questioning did I dothe right thing, or am I going
(20:22):
to lose this person becausethey're so great?
Speaker 1 (20:25):
You are in your 30s.
I'm not going to dox you, butyou're in your 30s.
Is this person you're talkingto also in their 30s?
They're a little younger, intheir 20s, okay, I mean.
So one.
I'm just going to blanketstatement this screw your
company's payment plan, right?
Like experience does not matter, it is all about action.
(20:50):
And like, screw that.
That's one thing I'm verygrateful for is I do feel like,
uh, I'm in an org where we payvery much based on not
experience but ability.
Like if you, if you get to theinterview and you show us you
can do what you say you want todo, then like we're going to
consider paying you what youthink you're worth.
Um, see, when I've had theseconversations before with people
(21:14):
, I actually had a conversationwith one of my friends and
coworkers a little while backand they told me how much they
made and they're like well, howmuch do you make?
And I'm like you don't want toknow?
And they're like is it double?
And I said more than.
And they're like that's crazy.
And I said yes, but how longhave I been doing this job?
And I didn't say like this job,like how long have I been in
(21:37):
this industry, which is 15 years, like they've been here for two
, coming on three, and I saidcould you do my job?
No, that's why and I said, likeI didn't linearly move my way
here there were big jumps alongthe way when I was able to
(21:59):
execute certain things thatother people couldn't right.
Like part of what I do is, youknow, messaging.
It is being able to tell a verycompact, tight story that
motivates sales.
You said earlier, though I tellyou things you get excited Like
that's my ability.
I honed that craft.
I use that craft for good.
That craft generates money formy company.
(22:22):
Not a lot of people can do whatI do, hence why the value is
what I am, and I'm able toexplain that to them.
And then by the end of itthey're like, yeah, no, I
totally get it.
And now they have a goal.
They know how they can get towhere I am in time, and they
could probably do it faster thanI can, because I spent seven
years wasting my life insoftware engineering, which got
(22:42):
me nothing.
In the span of things.
Had I gone to sales andmarketing much earlier, I'd be
making even more and I'd be evenfurther in my career.
So that's how I had thatconversation with them.
But because your company isstupid, you can't have that
conversation with them.
But because your company isstupid, you can't have that
conversation without besmirchingyour company, and that's what I
would do.
I would say this place sucks.
(23:03):
They don't appreciate talentand skill.
This is not a you and meproblem, this is a corporate
problem.
And if you don't like it,unfortunately, I think your best
effort is to seek employmentelsewhere where you can get paid
what you deserve, becausethey're not going to fix it for
you.
And you need to be very upfrontand clear with them about this,
because if you lead them on,they're going to resent you for
(23:24):
it, the same way I've resentedprevious bosses that you know
about at Big Corp that did thatto me.
Tell me oh, don't worry, bruce,next year you're going to get
it.
And then it's like no, we'regoing to give it to that
60-year-old guy with the caneover there on the inhaler
because he's been here longerthan you, even though you do
more work than he does.
Sorry, that's just the way itworks and that's how you learn
(23:45):
to hate your boss, hate yourcompany and become jaded, like
me.
So I think you need to have avery honest conversation about
the.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
And I would say, like you said in my 30s, not going
to dox me, but I'm younger formy role.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
You're younger.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
And what I would say is my company has invested in
promoting me because of the workthat I do, and so they've
figured out a way to say we'rejust going to keep promoting you
Because that's the way we'regoing to get him into more money
and that's the way he's goingto get paid.
And this person we've done thesame.
You know they've been promotedtwice now and so, like we're
(24:29):
trying to do the same thing.
But it is tough because, likeHR, when they're bringing people
on board, they work within asalary grade, a floor and a
ceiling.
And I told I do get.
There is merit to saying, whenyou're hiring somebody, you
don't know how good they are,and so you base it off years of
experience and you're saying,hey, listen, this person's got
(24:52):
15 years of experience doingwhat we want them to do.
They interviewed.
Well, you want to hire them.
We should pay them more thansomeone who is younger in their
career.
That we don't know, Likethey're not tested and tried.
And we don't know We're're nottested and tried and we don't
we're taking a bet to know ifthey're going to be good or not,
and so I get it, Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Challenge.
You should catch that in theinterview process.
If not, you're not doing goodinterviews.
And, like, I will elaborate onthat.
If you look at their resume andthey say I drove 400% growth on
our social media platform whenI left the company, we had over
3 million followers on Instagram.
(25:32):
We had 2 million followers onFacebook and I'm the one who led
that growth, you better believe.
The first question I'm askingthem on that call is hey,
breakdown.
I want to know exactly how youdid this and did you do it by
yourself or did you do it in ateam?
And depending on how theyanswer, that question is going
to tell me whether or not theyare worth whatever they're
(25:53):
asking for.
Like, I don't care about theexperience.
If you know how to do that,that's way more important than
any amount of time you spent inthe role not learning how to do
things right, because you couldbe learning how to do things
wrong right.
That was me in dev.
I wasn't getting better in mytime there.
I was getting worse.
I was learning bad habits, likeI wasn't improving.
If I was still in dev today,I'd probably be making less
(26:14):
money uh, doing worse work,because time does not equal
quality Time just equals timethe ability to go off and
actually execute, because youeither have the drive or the
energy or the know-how.
That's what you're paying for,and you should be able to suss
that out through good questionsand interviewing.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Well, I think it's also like I was thinking about
it a little bit.
I'm like is this the person'sfault for just not knowing their
worth when they accepted therole versus someone who's more
senior?
They can kind of suss that outto be like I'm not going to
accept your low offer.
I've been doing this for 15years.
I need to have a higher offer,and they negotiated into where
(26:53):
they are.
Someone who's more juniordoesn't necessarily know how
much they're worth, and so itkind of puts them as a
disadvantage.
And that's this person.
It's like they've been promotedtwice to where they are.
They now manage people that areolder than them and have much
more experience, but they dogreat work and they're doing an
awesome job, and so it's kind ofon them to be like you didn't
negotiate well for what you wereworth and so we gave you an
(27:15):
offer and you accepted the offer, and that also is on the
corporation.
You should pay them whatthey're worth ideally up front,
but also I think HR,unfortunately, and BidCorp
they're worth ideally up front,but also I think HR,
unfortunately in big corethey're saying how can we get
them with the lowest possibleoffer?
And then it's up to the managerto kind of fight for the right
amount, and so it's a little biton me as the manager, or not
(27:37):
fighting for more money, to belike listen, they're probably
going to accept this offer.
We need to give them morebecause they're great, they're
going to be a front flight riskin a year?
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
It's so interesting.
I'm like going back and forthin my head.
I'm like, was this on me, wasit on them?
And how do I remediate it?
And that's the hardest part.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
You need to go to your boss or HR ASAP and say
this person's a flight risk andthen tell them why.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Yeah, and then be like hey, we got to find a way
to get the hand raises, you gotto make it right, and the faster
you do it, the better they willfeel about it.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
They'll be like wow, Clark really cares about me and
wants me to stay here because hewent and did this thing for me.
Like, you will earn so manypoints if you're able to pull
that off.
Yeah, because it's the rightthing to do for them.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Yeah, I agree.
Yeah, it's weird too, becauseyou can't like take away pay
from somebody.
So even if this person's goingon a tip, it's like you can
never take away from theirsalary.
But honestly, like that, I'mthinking.
I've been thinking about thatmore and I'm like, well, what if
it worked the other way?
What if it's performance basedand if you don't perform well,
your salary starts getting cutevery year rather than going up.
(28:43):
Like that's honestly reallyinteresting.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
That is technically how I get paid, because 30% of
my total income comes from mybonus and when I do well and I
hit my goals, I get 100%.
Unfortunately, some of my bonusis also tied to the performance
of the company, which iscompletely out of my control.
But you know, that is what itis.
So when if my team or if Idon't do well during a quarter,
(29:12):
we feel the sting in ourpaycheck right, it's like I'm
not going to get that full bonuspayout, which hurts, but it
does motivate you to do betternext quarter, like it is a great
mechanism for that.
I do think more people should beon a OTE system on target
earnings versus just flat.
Here's your full salary,because that is how you get to
(29:33):
your PIP situation.
You would have found that out alot sooner had they been on a
bonus structure where it's like,yeah, you have not hit your
goals for the last year, you'vemissed your entire, you've
missed 30% of your paycheck,which saves the company money
and it does not reward poorperformance, but it certainly
beats the situation of well, I'mgoing to get paid, no matter
what.
(29:54):
I can just hang out here andpull a salary.
You know, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Yeah, it's like a pro for the worker, because this
person that's not performingwell, they're getting paid
really well for their position,even though they're not
performing perfectly, and so,like it is interesting, it's
like they can kind of just floatin this limbo state and it's up
to us like likely, you know, apip that's coming soon.
And it's an interestingsituation because I'm just like
(30:18):
thinking about how you handlethis, how you make it right, how
you get somebody to perform and, to your point, I think the
incentive structure, especiallywith bonuses, are levers that
the company can pull to keeppeople motivated, because at the
end of the day, that impactswhat they get paid, because we
do the whole performance.
Like it's based on, you know,if you meet or exceeds
expectations, like you actuallyget more of a bonus if you
(30:41):
exceed expectations.
But it's not like your OTEsituation where it's very much
like number-based and it's easyfor you to understand.
These are my goals and this ishow I hit them.
For us it's like it's not thatblack and white and we need to
do a better job as a company tomake that black and white so
they can try to hit the exceedsor whatever the highest one.
(31:01):
I can't even remember what thehighest rating is, but that
would get them more money at theend of the day.
And that will keep them moremotivated.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
It definitely seems like a little bit of your
company is kind of operating ina legacy corporate model,
because even when I left bigcorp they were doing this, this
whole bonus structure, this goaloriented structure, and like it
did motivate me to do thethings that I said I was going
to do because I wanted my bonus,did motivate me to do the
things that I said I was goingto do because I wanted my bonus.
I don't think this exactlyhelps in your case because
(31:32):
there's still the individual whois a top performer that is not
getting paid what they're valuedat.
But that just sounds like areal, like an honest to goodness
emergency out of band, eitherpromotion or pay bump, which is
not difficult to do, especiallywhen there's reasonable cause
for it.
Right, Like you go to HR, yougo to your boss and say, look,
(31:52):
they have a direct report thatmakes almost as much as they do
the direct report's on a PIP.
This is creating a demoralizingsituation for them.
I don't want them to be atflight risk.
We need them to stay at thiscompany.
I think like to remedy thesituation, we just need to do an
out of band promotion and uh,it'll.
It'll just solve all of this,as opposed to making them wait
and potentially, you know,hurting the situation in the
(32:13):
case that we lose them Right,Like just got to lay it out
crystal clear.
Put the onus on HR and yourboss to make it happen, but like
I do feel like this is a prettyeasy solve.
Uh, and also in the future,moving forward, like get your
bands right, man, Get your paybands right.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Yeah, it's been an interesting learning, but I
think to your point, that is theright thing to do and I've been
fortunate enough that I've hadmanagers in the past even
managers now that I got out ofband raises because they wanted
to ensure that I was not a flatrisk and they probably looked
they didn't tell me this, butthey probably looked across the
board and been like holy cow,he's the same level as these
(32:51):
people and they have paid thismuch.
Like we got to figure out howto get them you know the right
pay.
And it was funny, even in depth, like I transferred to a new
team and he literally pulled measide, like our very first one.
When he's like, do you know howlittle you're getting paid
compared to people who do farless work than you?
Speaker 1 (33:06):
And I'm like no, I have no idea.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
And he's like I'm immediately giving you a 20%
raise.
He's like this is crazy, theamount you're getting paid
compared to these other people,and so like that's what a good
manager should do, and I thinkyou're absolutely right.
So I think that's my duty is tonow fight for that and make it
right make it right.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
It is your duty.
I'm very curious what willhappen because, like this, this
can help you inform decisionsabout your own role in the
company moving forward right,because you want them to do this
for you, if you ever foundyourself in this situation.
And it just like it's, it's amirror for corporate culture and
what your business thinks aboutthe individual contributors
that work there.
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Yeah, I've got to be more judicious as a manager.
I'm putting on my managerhealth.
I have to be more judicious onwhen hiring somebody, when we
send them an offer, making sureyou've considered those things
and say okay, they're young buttheir results speak for
themselves.
And look across your team.
Do a little calibration, as welike to call it in the corporate
world.
Do a little calibration and seewhere everybody stands.
(34:03):
Be okay, well, this person's ona pip, they have more
experience, but this personseems awesome.
We should pay them what wethink they're worth.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Yeah that's the right thing to do yeah, thank you for
talking to us of course happyto help.
It's not an easy anytime there'sanytime it's pay.
It's not easy and, and you know, for me it's easy because I can
rationalize it to other people.
So if they feel I don't tellpeople what I make, but I do
tell them, you know, in therange in adjacency to their own
(34:32):
one, because I don't actuallyknow how much I make, it's weird
, right, like because of mybonus structure I make a lot but
it's not crystal clear to meever and I don't want to do the
math like I literally have to domath to how much I get paid.
So it's just easier to use likegeneric terms.
But I have no problem talkingabout it with anybody because I
think I can always rationalizewhy I do get paid what I do and
(34:54):
I think it's a reasonable amountfor what I do.
So value drives unless I takethat job for the vp role at that
other company for half theprice.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
So you know I say you do it.
You you know what?
After this whole conversation,yeah, why not?
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Why not?
You will show up to my houseand I'll be doing something from
the ceiling, don't you jump.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Don't you jump.
Thank you for this conversation.
You have helped somebody.
You can no longer leave thisworld.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Well, I guess, when you put it that way, I guess,
when you put it that way, I'llhang out for a couple of weeks,
just a couple.
We'll see how next week.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
Just get a couple more episodes of corporate
strategy and even though thelast one was the last one the
last one was well, the last fourwere the last one, so now this
might be the last one, but weactually know this will not be
the last one, cause we have onemore episode next week.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
That is a guest episode, that's true excited for
oh, it can't be the last one wegot ta.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Yeah, we gotta do that yeah you're right, all
right.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Well, no bungee cord in the living room till three
weeks from now.
It's gonna be so much fun.
I'm gonna just bounce aroundall day.
It's gonna be great.
It's gonna be great.
I can't.
Why do we did it.
I did it again in 36 minutes,no less.
Look at that.
Efficient, efficient.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Nice.
Do we have anything else?
Do we have memes?
I think you're up for memes.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
No, we don't have memes.
No one plays games anymore.
No one listens to the pod, noone plays games.
It's sad.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
We got a meme in the corporate memes, but we didn't
get a meme in the what do youmeme.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Corporate memes.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
You don't even know our channels anymore.
You're adding these channels.
I know our channels.
You don't even know ourchannels anymore.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
You're adding these channels.
I know our channels.
It's just not relevant to theprevious episode.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
But it is a funny meme.
It is a very funny meme.
It is a funny meme, but I agreeit's not relevant.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
That's the problem.
You know what.
If you want to play, if youwant to play the game what do
you mean?
Which we, which we described,means our mouth parts you got to
join the discord.
It's super easy Go to the shownotes link tree, click, join
discord and then, in the what doyou mean channel, you will post
a meme of your own creationthat has something to do with
(37:08):
something we said in a previousepisode, and then one of us is
forced to explain it with ourmouth parts on pod, because
that's the most interestingthing you can do on pods.
We also have a channel called itIs it me or is it corporate,
and in that channel you can doforward, slash, confess and type
in whatever the heck you want,and it will completely anonymize
the confession and then we willread it out loud and determine
(37:30):
whether or not it was in factyou or it was in fact corporate.
And we never, we never waver.
It's factual, it's truthful,trust me.
Try it out, do it for the nextepisode, it's fine.
Plus, we have a new channelcalled is it ai, where you can
post a picture and we need tofigure out if it's ai or not.
Please put ai in the file name.
(37:50):
If it is, those are our gamesthat we can't play, because we
don't have anything to play with.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
We got to reinvigorate the channels.
We got to bring them back.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
Discord calls for aid .
Clark, you need to get in thereand start posting.
I want 10 posts a day,Otherwise you're not getting
your bonus 10 posts a day, oh myGod.
You're not getting your bonus.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
How much, what percentage, what percentage of
my bonus?
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Your bonus is 30% of your paycheck.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Ooh.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
You better get 10 posts a day, you better get on
it.
This is motivation, qualityposting.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Not in shitification posting.
No, I want quality posts If youdon't know what to do you do it
Go back and listen to our lastepisode.
Was it the last episode?
Speaker 1 (38:32):
two was last episode if we spent the first 20 minutes
talking about in shitificationa real thing, by the way, not
something that we just made up.
It's a real horrible thingthat's happening all around us
all around, everywhere, everyday, every day, everywhere all
the time I saw I mean likebetween last episode and this
one, I saw it happen like geez,it's just, it's just happening.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
I can't escape it, you can't.
Terrible, it's a fly cannotstop it.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
I wish, I wish life was a wave and I had a surfboard
.
But I think in in this analogy,a surfboard is a billion
dollars.
So you know, I think that's,that's how you ride the wave of
life.
So I agree, unfortunately, yougot anything else, clark.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
No, that's it Like share.
Subscribe.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
It's really easy.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Yeah, ring the bell.
Even if you don't like somebody, share this with them.
Make the corporate world abetter place.
We did a whole series, a wholeseries on how you appreciate
other people in the workplace,even if you don't like their
work or they don't do a thingyou can find ways to still
appreciate them and hopefullymotivate them to help you and
feel appreciated in theworkplace.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
I couldn't agree more .
I love that series.
If you haven't listened to itin its entirety, you are missing
out.
It's the most research andserious we've ever been and I
feel like there's like itimproved my life.
It can improve your life.
In addition to that, in thelink tree you'll also find that
we have a feet pics subscriptionservice, so if you want to see
the bottoms of my or Clark'sfeet, you can sign up.
(40:02):
It is $5 a month and we uploadmultiple feet pics per week, so
do sign up for that if you wantto see these piggly wigglies
unsocked.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Don't you ever say those words around me again.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
We've also unveiled our new virtual companion
program, craig Chatbot.
If you would like to date aCraig, we have captured his
essence and if you go in thelink tree, you click date a
Craig his essence and if you goin the link tree, you click data
craig and you can have apersonal relationship with our
(40:38):
very own podcast recorder.
Craig keeps the podcast ontrack, he's our number one
producer and now he can be yourlover sign up ten dollars a
month oh ten ten, five for feet,ten for craig you know I can
say it's worth it.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
He's consistent, he's reliable and he's just a good.
He will record yourconversations.
He will record yourconversation and you can
download a transcript after.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
Have you seen how many people are just in absolute
shambles with GPT-5 and howtheir AI boyfriends, girlfriends
and husbands have basicallyeffectively died?
Speaker 2 (41:14):
No.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
This is the state we're in Clark.
This is the state we are in.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
I don't like this corner of the internet.
I'm just going to stay awayfrom this corner of the internet
.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
It's not a corner, my friend.
I guarantee you know someonewho is dating a chatbot.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
I guarantee you?
Please tell me now.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
I'm telling you now it is like a catastrophe has
happened.
It is like Order 66 and theJedi have all been slain.
What OpenAI has done haseffectively killed just millions
of chatboyfriends andgirlfriends that these people
relied on, and it is there inshambles.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
That is incredibly terrible news.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
OpenAI has since realized this mistake with their
latest engine, because now thebot's like I think you need
therapy, I think you should gethelp.
I am not a real person, pleasestop treating me as such.
So they're just devastated bythis, and OpenAI has been like
well in order to keep theboyfriend-girlfriends.
This would cost us billions ofadditional dollars a year in
server fees, so I don't knowwhat to do.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
They did the responsible thing.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
They did the responsible thing by tuning it
back and saying I am not yourcompanion, but in doing so they
have just lit a fire.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
The chatbots call for aid in doing so.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
they have just lit a fire, Wow.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
The chatbots call for aid.
Hey, raise your pickaxe, raiseyour pitchfork, raise whatever
weapon you got and bring backthe AI.
Boyfriends and girlfriends.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
Let's go burn down a data center.
Let's go For the chatbots.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
For the chatbots.
For the chatbots, let's go onstrike.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
That's, that's what's going on right now.
So, uh, guarantee you.
Guarantee you, you know someone, there's probably a listener
and listen like I'm notinsulting you.
If this is, if this feels likeI'm insulting you, I'm not
insulting you.
You live your life, you do yourthing.
It's not my thing.
I hate ai with every fiber ofmy being.
So why would I, why would Iever talk to a chatbot, let
(43:14):
alone give it my affection orattention?
I don't even like it for itsgeneral use case.
So I'm just an AI racist.
I hate it.
I'm living up to my ownstandards here.
But no shame on you.
You go burn down that open AIdata center.
I support you.
Live your dream.
Burn it down.
I don't know that.
I'll come with you.
(43:34):
Take pics.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
But if you subscribe to our fee pic service, I'll
come with you.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
If you subscribe for $5 a month, we will join you and
we will help you burn down thedata centers.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
You're not getting a sneak peek, though that comes
with a subscription only.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
Oh well, of course.
Of course.
Why buy the cow when the milkis free?
In this case, the milk is ourtest.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
We got to quit this podcast.
Why are we still here?
Why are we doing this?
Speaker 1 (44:09):
We had a really tight 36 minutes and I thought how
could I ruin this?
How could I just absolutelydestroy all of the goodwill we
built?
We have to undo this and wehave to undo it in the worst way
possible.
You could make good moneyselling feet pics online, clark.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
I'm just saying like, if you want to do it, for
corporate strategy?
Speaker 1 (44:29):
we could, your feet, those hairy little gremlins.
How do you know they're hairyFor corporate strategy?
We could your feet, those hairylittle gremlins.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
How do you know they're hairy?
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Oh, I know, Subscribe and you'll find out.
You get it Now.
You get it now, you get it.
My um, my brother knows someonewho got offered on a live
stream to sell their socks forlike 160 dollars.
(45:01):
Oh my god, he didn't do it.
Can you believe that that'swild?
If someone was like hey bruce,if you send me your socks for
160 dollars, I'll pay you 160dollars, I'd be like that covers
the pod for a year.
Where do you want the socks?
I will wear them for you, Iwill sweat in them, I will run a
mile in these socks and thensell them to you and we will go
(45:21):
ad free for a year.
So just throwing that out there.
If you want it, I will do thatfor you.
Yeah, forget, buy me a coffee,just buy my socks, then we'll go
ad free guys, come on, it's notthat hard.
It's not that hard.
It's really not just give usyour money for weird stuff like
(45:42):
socks and feet pics.
I mean, this is the internet.
This is the internet we live intoday.
It used to be nice little youknow wikipedia pages.
It used to be fun, little geocities, websites about local
bands.
It used to be the crunch wrapsupreme for 99 cents.
And look at us now.
Look at what capitalism hasdone to all of us.
(46:04):
Worst, isn't it great it's so.
You see the wrinkles under myeyes like do you see how old I
am?
Speaker 2 (46:11):
I wasn am.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
I wasn't this old a year ago.
Just telling you that right nowit's happening quick.
This decade the 20s, theroaring 20s is aging me more
than anything in my life hasever aged me.
So just you know.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
Keep that in mind, just keep that in mind.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
Yeah, well, on that note, thanks for listening to
Corporate Strategy Podcast.
It could have been an Just keepthat in mind, because this is a
word of mouth podcast.
(46:49):
Obviously we use pseudonymsbecause we don't want our real
identities out there, so wecan't market things through our
traditional means.
So please share with others Ifyou think it's valuable.
Share an episode you like.
If you like the appreciationseries, send that to them.
That's a really good series.
It's going to make everyone'slife better if they follow it in
the workplace.
So share that around.
Don't be embarrassed because wedon't talk about feet in that
one.
I don't think.
(47:09):
And uh, we appreciate you fordoing it and we just appreciate
you for listening.
As always, thanks per usual.
This could have been an email.
I could have put it inconfluence, but I didn't.
Uh, I'm Bruce and I'm Luke andyou're on mute.
We'll see you next week.
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