September 15, 2025 • 27 mins
Bruce and Clark explore the growing expectation for workers to carry more weight, delving into the pressures of increased workloads and the impossibility of meeting ever-growing demands. They discuss how businesses expect employees to take on responsibilities outside their expertise while maintaining existing workloads.
• Bruce shares a frustrating experience with video recording where technical issues wasted hours of his time
• The conversation examines how employees are expected to become experts in areas tangential to their primary roles
• Both hosts identify that businesses expect everyone to carry more weight regardless of capacity
• They question whether demands to "do more faster" actually produce better results
• Clark introduces the concept of "spinning plates" and the importance of saying no
• Discussion of three key levers for negotiating workload: time, scope, and resources
• Tips for offering trade-offs rather than outright refusing new responsibilities
• Strategies for communicating capacity limitations and proposing constructive alternatives
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Under my jacket.
Yeah, I couldn't hear youbecause Craig John, well, I
couldn't hear you.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Underneath my work clothes, I always have corporate
strategy swag on Always.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Always.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Yeah, that way like, if you have x-ray vision and
you're watching my work videos.
You know that I'm a member ofthe corporate strategy crew.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Do you have a tattoo like I do?
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Yeah, I do, I just can't show it.
Yeah, you can't show mine.
It's in a very delicate place.
I agree, we actually got themBottom of my feet.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
There's been too much talk about feet on this podcast
, too much it needs to stop.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
You know what we haven't talked about in forever.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Oh, no, forever.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Like it makes me sad we haven't talked about in
forever, oh no, forever.
Like it makes me sad we haven'ttalked about it in so long,
don't?
Speaker 1 (00:54):
I want you to know that, at least for me, the audio
cut out.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Oh good, it probably cut out for everybody.
I sang the theme song to Pepsiman.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Pepsi man out for everybody.
Uh, I sang the theme song.
Do pepsi man, pepsi man.
Every single person on discordhas been begging for pepsi man
to come back.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
you know that, I know they have.
I've seen it at bruce wherepepsi, where man at clark, pepsi
man win at craig pepsi man, man, pepsi man, how Pepsi man who
P-E-P-S-I man?
Speaker 1 (01:30):
P-E-P-S-I man, pepsi man, oh, I miss him.
I miss him already I do too.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
It's been too long.
It's been way too long.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
So we're back here again.
How's your week going?
How?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
was your week.
Oh, my week has been going.
Welcome back to corporatestrategy podcast, to come in
email.
I'm bruce, I'm, uh, it's been along one.
It's been a long one for sure,yeah, yeah, yeah, this has been
one of those weeks where, um,what to say without
(02:11):
incriminating myself orpotentially becoming an HR risk,
uh, like I, I, I think aboutand I weigh the options of if I
just quit, how long could I bepoor?
Speaker 1 (02:23):
for you know, like I think I'd feel better if I was
poor, that's, that's I want toput an asterisk by what you just
said, because you're notincriminating yourself to hr,
you're just saying in general Ithink everybody thinks about
this, no matter what company youwork for it's like what if I
just didn't work?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
yeah, yeah.
What if I said I resign, I'llgive you two weeks because I'm a
good guy From any company.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
This is not just my company.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
I'm the kind of person that'll give you two
weeks.
I just resign and I'm not goingto work for a bit.
I need to hate not workingbefore I get back to it.
Does that sound okay?
I need to never come back.
I told you this beforehand but Ididn't tell our dear listeners.
I spent three hours todaysetting up my office to do some
(03:13):
video recordings on thisransomware sort of paper I've
built.
So I'm going to basically takethe paper.
The paper's like 20 pages long.
I've turned it into sevenscripts.
I've loaded the scripts up intomy prompter.
I have my prompter pages long.
I've turned it into sevenscripts.
I've loaded the scripts up intomy prompter.
I have my prompter set up.
I have lights set up, my micset up, had my jacket on
everything and I record forliterally two and a half hours
(03:35):
and when I start watching theplayback and it's not even like
a rookie mistake, because when Idid my test recordings they
looked good, they sounded good.
The problem was I didn't do atest recording where I was
reading from the prompter, Ijust did test recordings where I
was talking and the therecordings I was reading from
the prompter.
For whatever reason, my eyesare looking up and not directly
(03:57):
at the camera, which is weirdbecause they were looking like.
The prompter line is adjacentwith the lens of the camera and
I don't know what light,physical, magic funkery is
occurring here.
But looking at the lens doesnot mean I'm looking at the lens
, if you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
So I lost two and a half hours today of my only free
time.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
I had this week to get this thing done and now I'm
like when am I gonna actually dothis work, because I have no
time to do it next week that'sterrible look at it's terrible
look at it for me, let me.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Let me take a look at you.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Oh yeah, you're looking a foot above my head you
look like you look like youhave some sort of floating eye
problem where, like, you'relooking at me but not looking at
me like the camera is rightthere I'm pointing my finger at,
like this great radio becauseeveryone can't see anything that
I'm saying.
But like I want you to imagineyou're watching, you know, like
(04:49):
Stephen Colbert on TV, but hiseyes are like 45 degree angle
away from the camera, upward.
That's what it looks like.
It makes it makes me look dead,like I look like I'm a zombie,
like dead eye I I don't fun, Ifundamentally don't understand.
So I went to my video guy, myteammate, and I was like dude,
what the heck?
(05:09):
Like I just spent two hoursdoing this.
And then I like he's like, okay, let's try some test recordings
.
And like we go, we just startdoing.
And he's like I, I've worked invideo my whole life, I have no
idea what's going on.
Like no, this is weird.
So then I started like googlingeven further.
Just like what the heck?
Looking at lens but not.
But like eyes not focused onlens.
(05:30):
And apparently this happenswith the freaking iphone cameras
.
So people, will like set uptheir cameras on the tripod and
if you look down the lens itdoesn't look like you're looking
at it.
You have to look like above thelens in the case of the iphone
to sit like and I'm just, I'm ata loss.
I wasted so much time, I'm outof energy, I'm out of Fs to give
.
This has been a cap on a weekof just exhausting for Bruce.
(05:52):
I want to quit.
Today I was like I could resign, I could quit my job and that
would be fine.
I'll just live off of beans andcornbread and I think I can do
it.
I think I can do it.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Are you?
How are you?
Well, you know, I commiseratewith you.
Mine wasn't as bad, but thatsucks.
That you did two hours and thenyou like watch it and you're
like what in the actual like?
You just were like there's noway, it's all like this, right,
and you probably like I'mimagining you scrubbing the
video being like no, is it allthis way?
Speaker 2 (06:26):
No, no, no, please, please no no.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
And then you get to the end and you're like, yep,
the whole thing is me justlooking like a zombie.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
This is why you have to have a video producer Like
truly it's, even if you someonewho's watching you, because it
you just you can't self-directunless that's an ai product that
needs to happen you need likean ai director.
Nvidia actually has a feature.
I don't know.
I don't know what program likeit works with, but nvidia has a
(06:58):
feature that uses ai to makeyour eyes always looking at the
camera so like if I'm reading myemail over here, it looks like
I'm still looking at you, likethat's a cool feature.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
That's kind of terrifying.
I'm not going to lie, it is.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah, yeah, but I could have used it today.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
I could have used it.
I mean, like, honestly, that'sa very helpful.
It's like I'm by myself.
I need an AI producer.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
I'm not this like having something that gives you
that real-time on-screenfeedback.
That should be a product.
Someone figure it out.
Here's the problem, I mean Imean here's.
Here's.
The ultimate problem with all ofthis is and this, I mean this
we talked about in shitification, but I think this is this needs
another, this.
There's needs to be anotherword for this specific thing
where it's you're capable, go doit yourself.
We don't need a producer.
We don't need a director.
We don't need a film crew.
(07:49):
We don't need do it yourself inyour office at home.
Go buy your expensive equipment.
Oh, I realize your job is justwriting and creating marketing
material, but now you have tobecome a video expert as part of
your job and you need tounderstand sight lines and green
screens and chroma keys andlighting and audio.
That's not your job, but it isnow.
I hope you don't mind thatwe're just adding this workload
(08:12):
to you because we're too cheapto hire someone to do it or we
don't have time.
I do think the larger problemand I feel this not just in
video, I feel this acrosseverything is that businesses I
work in a startup so I kind ofvolunteered for this, but I
think this is true more broadly.
Businesses just expect everyoneto carry more weight.
(08:34):
I don't care how strong you are, I don't care how weak you are,
you will carry more weight.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
A hundred percent agree with you.
It's something that's beenhappening a lot for us as we
plan for next year.
We're already busting at theseams.
Our team is just overloadedleft and right.
We're trying our best to manageit, trying our best to
prioritize, and we're gettingthis top-down direction to go
faster.
And it's just blowing our mindsbecause we're like it's not
(09:02):
possible to go faster with theamount of resources we have,
like there has to be a.
No, we're not doing anythingelse.
Focus on these couple of thingsand that's it.
But to your point, it's likeour roles and the expectations
for our roles continue to growand I don't know if it's like a.
Oh, it's just this small thing,bruce.
All you got to do is just mountyour iphone up there.
(09:25):
Look into the iphone.
That's it.
That's all you got.
That's not hard.
Mount your iPhone up there,look into the iPhone.
That's it.
That's all you got.
That's not hard.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
That's all I got to do.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
You already wrote the white paper.
Just read the 20-page whitepaper into the camera.
That's not difficult.
Why not Just put it in a filefor us and make it look good so
we can watch it and present iton our website?
That doesn't seem hard.
That'll take you what Like anhour 20 minutes 20 minutes at
most.
It's like has this happenedincrementally?
(09:51):
Is this a very incremental?
Speaker 2 (09:54):
thing that's happened to us.
Did you ever read what was it?
It's not the Scarlet Letter, itwas the Crucible, crucible.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Arthur Miller, with the witches, oh, I did.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Was it Goody Proctor?
I forget his name.
Do you remember the one guy whothey think is a witch?
And they put him in the pit andthey just start putting stones
on his body?
And you know, he's just like.
I am so tired of these buffoonsand their witchery, but they
think I'm a witch.
So you know what I'm going tosay to them.
I'm just going to say moreweight.
And then they crush him byputting stones on his body and
(10:25):
he dies that way, which is areal thing.
That happened to people.
But I mean, like it is prettyepic that he was like more
weight.
I feel like that's us, I feellike that is us right.
And when I say us, I don't meanClark and Bruce, I mean
collective, the corporate famand everyone in corporate.
There is just this additiveweight that keeps happening.
(10:47):
And what you said is actuallywhat I think we need to diagnose
on today's episode as ourimpromptu topic.
When you are asked to do morefaster, does that actually make
it so?
Because in my, in this man'shumble opinion, when someone
says, hey, I need you to do thistoo, or like, can you
prioritize this, and then I dropeverything else in priority, I
(11:10):
feel like.
What actually ends up happeningis the context switching plus
the.
Just the general frazzlednessof my very fragile nature makes
me a lot slower.
And had they just waited andwere patient and said we're
going to add this to the bottomof the stack, get to it when you
can, I feel like the qualitywould have been better and I
probably would have got it donefaster.
(11:31):
But because we need this rightnow, go, go, go, go go.
What's going to end uphappening is it's not going to
get done as fast as it actuallycould.
I'm going to become clinicallydepressed and want to quit my
job.
Also, a good indicator of how Ifeel is, when I walk away from
my desk, how deep the sighs are,and this week the sighs are
deep.
Let me tell you I'm just right,like it's momentous.
(11:55):
Do you agree with thatassessment?
Speaker 1 (12:00):
I do.
But I have a question for you.
You would consider yourself ahigh-capacity worker, right?
You can take on a lot.
Would you consider yourself ahigh-capacity worker?
Right, you can take on a lot.
Would you consider yourselfthat when you?
Look across your peers, yourpeers, your team.
You're like I take on a lot.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
It's not even close.
It's not even close and I don'tthink any of my team would
disagree.
They're asking can I help you?
And I'm like I wish that youcould.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
I really do, but you know, it's interesting Play this
mind game out with me, allright, I love mind games Go your
high capacity.
I'm high capacity.
When I ask my team to take onmore, what I often find is they
(12:50):
don't know how to do itefficiently, and the way I do it
is different than how they doit.
And then, when I kind of getinto it, I'm like why is it
taking them so long to do this?
And I'm like, hey, you know,maybe I have some tips of how
you could actually do thisreally quick.
Like do you want to sittogether and do it?
I show them something that blowstheir minds and they're like
holy cow, like that was actuallygreat, like like now I
understand how you do this soquick.
I'm like, yeah, you know, youjust gotta have the right system
, you gotta use the right tool.
You know, whatever, whateverthe, the hack is in that
(13:11):
scenario.
Some things are not and allthings are not equal, but that's
what I've noticed a little bit.
So do the people above us thatask us to do more and they're
just, oh, yeah, just take onvideo recording and producing
and screen reading, like you gotthat?
Do they know something youdon't?
Speaker 2 (13:26):
No, okay, well, that was a fun mind game.
I really appreciate playingthat.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Thanks, Clark, I do this with myself because I'm
like, okay, well, if I ask myteam to do something and they
don't know how to do it fast orgood enough, and then I sit with
them, I kind of show them andI'm like, okay, now they get it,
like now I'm seeing the fasteroutput, it makes me think people
above me that think that thingscan be done fast Do they know
something I don't know?
Speaker 2 (13:56):
So, in my org specifically, I can't do what my
boss does, my boss can't dowhat I can do, and my team can't
do what I do and I can't dowhat they can do, if that makes
sense.
So no one is capable of doingthe things that either their
(14:20):
upper or subsequent person does,which leaves you very much in a
.
The only way to really fix thisproblem is to add more repeat
skills to the mix.
Like we're, we're very welldiversitized in a skill
portfolio, but we have noredundancy on the team at all.
(14:44):
I have one teammate that Iwould say is redundant and she's
phenomenal, and the one thing Idon't want to do is have her in
the same situation where I amBasically like oh, you get to go
do this now.
I hope you don't jump off acliff today, today, uh, you know
(15:08):
like I want to be protective ofthe workload and the bandwidth
and the weight that I would senddown to her.
So I I don't uh that.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
That means I do carry more, you know, it's just uh
yeah, it is interesting the twoperspectives of you're in a
startup well, you said, makessense.
It's like your team isn't bigenough and your company isn't at
the size to have specializedskill sets Right, like you kind
of own a general domain ofthings or a vertical of things
(15:35):
in your portfolio and you guysare responsible for that
function in its entirety.
For me it's like I am very,very specialized into product
management so the redundancy ishigh because it's we're built
because of the scale that wehave to operate.
If someone's out, someone juststeps in Right.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
You have a team of product managers.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Yeah, I have a team of product managers who has a
team of product owners on theirteam and so, like if someone's
out like I could theoreticallystep in and do their job because
I have the same skillset andcapability.
I don't think it always goesthe other way, like I think the
upwards trajectory is like theyprobably can't do some of the
(16:18):
things that I do because theydon't have the context, they
don't have the experience orthey haven't been in all these
situations.
So again experience.
So like been in all thesesituations, again experience.
So like it doesn't really workboth ways, but it certainly
works that I can.
I could step in and help myteam if they needed me to.
Yours is totally different.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
I think that's good, though.
I think that's normal and thatshould be expected, right Like,
in order to get to the nextlevel, I feel like you have to
be able to do the previous level.
That's how it should be.
I know that's not how it is,but that's how it should be.
And you know, at a startup youdon't hire that way, right Like,
I'm hiring, I have a need and Ineed a hire to fill that need.
(16:57):
The reason that need exists isbecause no one at the startup
can do that job.
So I'm very cognizant, like Iam in a different position and a
lot of my frustrations andcomplaints are just because it
is startup and it is exhausting.
And I am, unfortunately, verytalented and very diverse in my
skill set, which, like seemsgreat on paper, but then you
(17:19):
realize, like, what it means asfar as expectations, capacity
and outcome, and it's just amaddening, frustrating
experience.
It's just exhausting at the endof the day.
But to come back to my mainthought, I still feel like the
expectation is more than it usedto be, and that's not just
(17:41):
startup.
I do feel like the expectationis more, do faster, do more,
better quality Cause you cause.
I think businesses in general,are just competing a lot harder
than they used to.
We're in a, we're in a badmarket right now, right, like we
talked about the jobs reportlast week Not a lot of them.
When there's less jobs, there'sless spending.
When there's less spending,there's less income and profit
(18:03):
for companies.
So companies become a lot morebrutal, a lot more cutthroat.
I got to, I got to beat mycompetitor because every sale is
either life or death for thecompany.
Like it's.
It's very like violent language, I mean, like you know, you
think about it, but it is likebusinesses become almost like
violent in the way that I haveto outperform them because they
(18:26):
or us won't be here in two years, right, and I think that that
mentality that sort of it isalmost war-esque is being pushed
down to us and we'reessentially soldiers in this
fight now, and every battle youlose is a potential.
Now, uh, and every battle youlose is a potential, you know,
(18:49):
achilles heel for the company, Idon't know it just like it
feels oppressive.
It feels very, very oppressiveright now and I don't think it's
going to get better yeah, youknow this, this topic is really
timely, I you know.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Let me tell you a story.
Let's sit down together, let'stell a.
Tell a story.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Sorry, I've been seated this whole time.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Oh, have you been?
Oh, I've been standing.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Sorry.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
You should probably think about if you should stand
or not.
You don't have to, but thinkabout it.
All right.
Okay, we're together.
I don't like that swivel.
Nobody can see what you'redoing right now, but I don't
like it.
Okay, I'm going to set a storyfor you.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Okay, so last year, 24, a good year yeah 2024.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
It was a good year.
I had a employee that's one ofmy manager's employees, but I
know them well.
I had them come to us and say,hey, I want more opportunity, I
want to take on more, I want toshow that I'm ready, kind of,
for that next level.
So he said, okay, great, youknow there's.
We're always looking foropportunities to kind of like
stretch a new skill set or learnor be able to step into
(19:55):
something that's higher capacityor more strategic or whatever
it is.
So we gave this personadditional responsibility this
year to say, okay, well, let'ssee how to handle it.
We'll give them a little moreresponsibility.
And in the beginning of theyear they had some personal
stuff go on and so like that wastotally understandable, like
hey, no worries, we're going tofigure this out together.
(20:18):
And lately it's actually gottento the point where this person
is just struggling.
They can't keep up with theworkload and we're at the point
where it's like it's almost timeto take the responsibility away
from them.
Or, if they want to keep it,it's almost like performance
discussion time, because it'sstarting to impact many teams.
And they said they could do it.
(20:39):
They haven't expressed concernsaround doing it, but we
constantly see the indicatorsthat they're not performing over
and over and over again.
And so I sat down with themthis week as a skip level
management meeting and I wasjust like hey, I'm concerned
just about your performance.
You know we wanted to stretchyou this year, but we're just
not seeing you being able tohave the capacity to do it.
And they looked at me and theysaid I have 10 spinning plates
(20:59):
right now and they're like everyday I feel like a new plate is
coming into the mix and I'm likeI'm about to drop one of the
plates and they're like I can'tkeep up.
I'm working a ton.
You know I'm taking on more andmore and more, and as I kind of
sat with them and kind of heardwhat was going on, it made me
think about the power of no.
And what I told this person islike you can't be afraid to say
(21:21):
no.
You've got I mean, especiallyin product management like
prioritization is everything.
Not everything can be a toppriority.
You've got to be able toprioritize what are the most
important spinning plates andsay no to other things.
And when people come to youtelling you to do something else
, don't just take it in, saylike, okay, you know I don't
think that fits in my priorities, but if you think it does,
(21:42):
here's my top 10.
You know, do you think I shoulddrop one of those so I can take
this on too?
Like the power of offeringtrade-offs, to say I can take
that on, but something elseneeds to give, and so I
basically you can take that on,but something else needs to give
.
And so I basically you know,pretty directly asked the person
I was like next week, I want toknow what four things are you
dropping from those 10 right now?
Like you need to drop it nextweek immediately.
Like, give us a recommendationof your top four things you're
(22:04):
getting rid of on your plate,because in reality, not all of
those, even though I wish theycould be can be the top priority
.
And I think that goes back toyour sentiment of like, how do
you kind of combat this?
How do you handle thissituation?
And when you're early in yourcareer, like saying yes to
things is good, you should beaccepting more opportunities,
should be looking for moreopportunity, but you need to
(22:25):
make sure you under commit andover deliver on that opportunity
and be realistic.
When your plate becomes heavyor you get too many plates
balancing or spinning in motion,you've got to say bruce, so
happy you brought this, uh, thisnew project to my attention.
You know I'd love to take thison.
Frankly, I just don't think Ihave the bandwidth.
You know, here's my projectlist and I don't think this is
(22:48):
more important than anythinghere.
But if you'd like me to dropone of these, I can do that and
and I can pick this up.
Just let me know which one youwant me to drop, and so I feel
like that's maybe theconversation that we need to
remember can happen.
It's not just yes, yes, yes,more, more, more.
I'm just going to do it.
It's like no, actually, justlist out the things that you're
doing that's taking up themajority of your time and tell
(23:09):
them which thing do you want meto get rid of?
So I can do this and just leaveit up to the person asking you.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
You know what's so funny.
I love this.
I did 50% of this this week.
Yeah, you got asked to dosomething.
Yeah well, it's not good, I'lltell you, because the 50% is the
problem.
We got asked to do somethingthat literally no one on my team
had bandwidth for or could do.
So I said we have no bandwidth,In fact, we're all over
(23:36):
capacity, and they're like, ohwell, it needs to get done.
I'm like I agree.
So I guess I'll just do it then, and that was the problem.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
That's a critical mistake you made there.
You got to rewind thatconversation and be like what's
coming off?
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Nothing because everything else is already in
play and due in the next twoweeks.
So that's the problem, right Isthere is there is no coming off
the priority list and we're notgoing to not do this thing
because it costs us $20,000.
So we have to do it and we haveto get it done in time.
Like it's just there.
(24:16):
I would love to be able tonegotiate priorities and maybe
that's my next step is, likereally starting to keep a list
of like.
Here's our priorities, here'sour list, what's coming off,
what's going in.
But unfortunately, becausewe're so lean and because we are
so focused on all value all thetime I don, we're so lean and
because we are so focused on allvalue all the time, I don't
(24:37):
know.
I don't know if there's anynegotiation to be had.
It's the only negotiation ishow many extra hours are you
working this week for no actualreward or satisfaction.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Uh, yeah, I always tell my team and you're to your
point.
I mean, you're in a startup, solike, in that case, yeah,
that's tough, like everything'sa priority fires can happen
every day and in my case that'stough, like everything's a
priority Fires can happen everyday, and in my case it's like
it's totally and I think mostpeople who work at traditional
corporate sense totally in yourrealm to control your priorities
and offer those trade-offs.
So you're not just saying no, no, no, all the time.
(25:05):
You're saying you know, maybethere's an opportunity to take
this on, but here's alleverything on my list, Like what
can I deprioritize and thethree levers that I think are
important.
Maybe the best tip I can sharemaybe not in your scenario, but
maybe in your scenario time,scope, resources.
So can I extend the time?
Can I have a little more timefor this project?
Like, instead of next Monday,can it be the following, so I
(25:26):
can get it done by beginning ofOctober?
Like that's an option.
If that's not an option, it'slike okay, can we reduce the
scope of this?
Can I cut the scope of this by10%, 20%.
Remove this page, remove thatpart of the project, remove this
feature, whatever it is, andthat way I think we can still
get it done on time.
And on budget or resources, CanI have more money?
(25:47):
Can I hire somebody?
Can I, you know, whatever it isthat you need, can I buy a new
tool that's going to help meaccelerate it?
Like the resources are anotherlever you can pull and so like,
as you're having these toughconversations, I think you have
to.
You have to think about allthose as you're proposing
recommendations.
So not just saying no, butsaying maybe.
But here's what I would suggest, like give me more time, Give
(26:11):
me let me cut a little bit ofscope here or give me more
resources.
And if all those things are areno like to your point, a
resource is also, or time isalso.
Yeah, working extra hours, likesometimes it's we're working a
weekend and that that sucks, butin reality that might be the
only option where it's just likeI think we gotta, I gotta have
my team work this weekend.
(26:32):
You know, morale is morale isgoing to take a hit, but if
that's the only option, then ifI'm talking to my boss, I'm like
, hey, we're working the weekend, my team's not going to be
thrilled about it, but that'sthe only way I can see us
getting this done.
Are you okay with that?
And like those are all theconversations I think you as a
manager, especially if it'simpacting your team have to have
.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Yeah, I just.
You know, I know we're at time.
You got to go Time.
I'm just over it.
I'm over it.
I'm over all it.
I do appreciate your advice,clark.
As always, I think you do havethe right approach and response.
I just have to figure out howto work it into my life.
Yeah Well, thanks.
Thank you for being mytherapist, clark, and I hope
(27:12):
that our listeners.
If you're in a situation similarto mine, you've got something
out of this.
We do have to run.
It's a quickie this week, butit doesn't make it any less
valuable.
If you want to join in theconversation, do so by hitting
the show notes, getting on ourDiscord, having a good time.
Support the show by buying us acoffee.
Listen to an ad, share the podwith your friends.
Throw the podcast in yourneighbor's doorstep, ring the
(27:35):
doorbell, run away, do it.
Do it now.
If you're not doing it, thenyou don't love us.
And if you don't love us, whyare you listening to us?
Uh, thanks, as always, for forbeing a listener and being a
friend.
We appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
I'm bruce and I'm clark we'll do the ai challenge
next week, I promise we promisewe'll do it.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
you're on'll do the AI challenge next week.
I promise, we promise, we'll doit.
You're on mute.
We'll see you next week.
Under my jacket.
Yeah, I couldn't hear youbecause Craig John, well, I
couldn't hear you.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Underneath my work clothes, I always have corporate
strategy swag on Always.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Always.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Yeah, that way like, if you have x-ray vision and
you're watching my work videos.
You know that I'm a member ofthe corporate strategy crew.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Do you have a tattoo like I do?
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Yeah, I do, I just can't show it.
Yeah, you can't show mine.
It's in a very delicate place.
I agree, we actually got themBottom of my feet.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
There's been too much talk about feet on this podcast
, too much it needs to stop.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
You know what we haven't talked about in forever.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Oh, no, forever.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Like it makes me sad we haven't talked about in
forever, oh no, forever.
Like it makes me sad we haven'ttalked about it in so long,
don't?
Speaker 1 (00:54):
I want you to know that, at least for me, the audio
cut out.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Oh good, it probably cut out for everybody.
I sang the theme song to Pepsiman.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Pepsi man out for everybody.
Uh, I sang the theme song.
Do pepsi man, pepsi man.
Every single person on discordhas been begging for pepsi man
to come back.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
you know that, I know they have.
I've seen it at bruce wherepepsi, where man at clark, pepsi
man win at craig pepsi man, man, pepsi man, how Pepsi man who
P-E-P-S-I man?
Speaker 1 (01:30):
P-E-P-S-I man, pepsi man, oh, I miss him.
I miss him already I do too.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
It's been too long.
It's been way too long.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
So we're back here again.
How's your week going?
How?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
was your week.
Oh, my week has been going.
Welcome back to corporatestrategy podcast, to come in
email.
I'm bruce, I'm, uh, it's been along one.
It's been a long one for sure,yeah, yeah, yeah, this has been
one of those weeks where, um,what to say without
(02:11):
incriminating myself orpotentially becoming an HR risk,
uh, like I, I, I think aboutand I weigh the options of if I
just quit, how long could I bepoor?
Speaker 1 (02:23):
for you know, like I think I'd feel better if I was
poor, that's, that's I want toput an asterisk by what you just
said, because you're notincriminating yourself to hr,
you're just saying in general Ithink everybody thinks about
this, no matter what company youwork for it's like what if I
just didn't work?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
yeah, yeah.
What if I said I resign, I'llgive you two weeks because I'm a
good guy From any company.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
This is not just my company.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
I'm the kind of person that'll give you two
weeks.
I just resign and I'm not goingto work for a bit.
I need to hate not workingbefore I get back to it.
Does that sound okay?
I need to never come back.
I told you this beforehand but Ididn't tell our dear listeners.
I spent three hours todaysetting up my office to do some
(03:13):
video recordings on thisransomware sort of paper I've
built.
So I'm going to basically takethe paper.
The paper's like 20 pages long.
I've turned it into sevenscripts.
I've loaded the scripts up intomy prompter.
I have my prompter pages long.
I've turned it into sevenscripts.
I've loaded the scripts up intomy prompter.
I have my prompter set up.
I have lights set up, my micset up, had my jacket on
everything and I record forliterally two and a half hours
(03:35):
and when I start watching theplayback and it's not even like
a rookie mistake, because when Idid my test recordings they
looked good, they sounded good.
The problem was I didn't do atest recording where I was
reading from the prompter, Ijust did test recordings where I
was talking and the therecordings I was reading from
the prompter.
For whatever reason, my eyesare looking up and not directly
(03:57):
at the camera, which is weirdbecause they were looking like.
The prompter line is adjacentwith the lens of the camera and
I don't know what light,physical, magic funkery is
occurring here.
But looking at the lens doesnot mean I'm looking at the lens
, if you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
So I lost two and a half hours today of my only free
time.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
I had this week to get this thing done and now I'm
like when am I gonna actually dothis work, because I have no
time to do it next week that'sterrible look at it's terrible
look at it for me, let me.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Let me take a look at you.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Oh yeah, you're looking a foot above my head you
look like you look like youhave some sort of floating eye
problem where, like, you'relooking at me but not looking at
me like the camera is rightthere I'm pointing my finger at,
like this great radio becauseeveryone can't see anything that
I'm saying.
But like I want you to imagineyou're watching, you know, like
(04:49):
Stephen Colbert on TV, but hiseyes are like 45 degree angle
away from the camera, upward.
That's what it looks like.
It makes it makes me look dead,like I look like I'm a zombie,
like dead eye I I don't fun, Ifundamentally don't understand.
So I went to my video guy, myteammate, and I was like dude,
what the heck?
(05:09):
Like I just spent two hoursdoing this.
And then I like he's like, okay, let's try some test recordings
.
And like we go, we just startdoing.
And he's like I, I've worked invideo my whole life, I have no
idea what's going on.
Like no, this is weird.
So then I started like googlingeven further.
Just like what the heck?
Looking at lens but not.
But like eyes not focused onlens.
(05:30):
And apparently this happenswith the freaking iphone cameras
.
So people, will like set uptheir cameras on the tripod and
if you look down the lens itdoesn't look like you're looking
at it.
You have to look like above thelens in the case of the iphone
to sit like and I'm just, I'm ata loss.
I wasted so much time, I'm outof energy, I'm out of Fs to give
.
This has been a cap on a weekof just exhausting for Bruce.
(05:52):
I want to quit.
Today I was like I could resign, I could quit my job and that
would be fine.
I'll just live off of beans andcornbread and I think I can do
it.
I think I can do it.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Are you?
How are you?
Well, you know, I commiseratewith you.
Mine wasn't as bad, but thatsucks.
That you did two hours and thenyou like watch it and you're
like what in the actual like?
You just were like there's noway, it's all like this, right,
and you probably like I'mimagining you scrubbing the
video being like no, is it allthis way?
Speaker 2 (06:26):
No, no, no, please, please no no.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
And then you get to the end and you're like, yep,
the whole thing is me justlooking like a zombie.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
This is why you have to have a video producer Like
truly it's, even if you someonewho's watching you, because it
you just you can't self-directunless that's an ai product that
needs to happen you need likean ai director.
Nvidia actually has a feature.
I don't know.
I don't know what program likeit works with, but nvidia has a
(06:58):
feature that uses ai to makeyour eyes always looking at the
camera so like if I'm reading myemail over here, it looks like
I'm still looking at you, likethat's a cool feature.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
That's kind of terrifying.
I'm not going to lie, it is.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah, yeah, but I could have used it today.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
I could have used it.
I mean, like, honestly, that'sa very helpful.
It's like I'm by myself.
I need an AI producer.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
I'm not this like having something that gives you
that real-time on-screenfeedback.
That should be a product.
Someone figure it out.
Here's the problem, I mean Imean here's.
Here's.
The ultimate problem with all ofthis is and this, I mean this
we talked about in shitification, but I think this is this needs
another, this.
There's needs to be anotherword for this specific thing
where it's you're capable, go doit yourself.
We don't need a producer.
We don't need a director.
We don't need a film crew.
(07:49):
We don't need do it yourself inyour office at home.
Go buy your expensive equipment.
Oh, I realize your job is justwriting and creating marketing
material, but now you have tobecome a video expert as part of
your job and you need tounderstand sight lines and green
screens and chroma keys andlighting and audio.
That's not your job, but it isnow.
I hope you don't mind thatwe're just adding this workload
(08:12):
to you because we're too cheapto hire someone to do it or we
don't have time.
I do think the larger problemand I feel this not just in
video, I feel this acrosseverything is that businesses I
work in a startup so I kind ofvolunteered for this, but I
think this is true more broadly.
Businesses just expect everyoneto carry more weight.
(08:34):
I don't care how strong you are, I don't care how weak you are,
you will carry more weight.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
A hundred percent agree with you.
It's something that's beenhappening a lot for us as we
plan for next year.
We're already busting at theseams.
Our team is just overloadedleft and right.
We're trying our best to manageit, trying our best to
prioritize, and we're gettingthis top-down direction to go
faster.
And it's just blowing our mindsbecause we're like it's not
(09:02):
possible to go faster with theamount of resources we have,
like there has to be a.
No, we're not doing anythingelse.
Focus on these couple of thingsand that's it.
But to your point, it's likeour roles and the expectations
for our roles continue to growand I don't know if it's like a.
Oh, it's just this small thing,bruce.
All you got to do is just mountyour iphone up there.
(09:25):
Look into the iphone.
That's it.
That's all you got.
That's not hard.
Mount your iPhone up there,look into the iPhone.
That's it.
That's all you got.
That's not hard.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
That's all I got to do.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
You already wrote the white paper.
Just read the 20-page whitepaper into the camera.
That's not difficult.
Why not Just put it in a filefor us and make it look good so
we can watch it and present iton our website?
That doesn't seem hard.
That'll take you what Like anhour 20 minutes 20 minutes at
most.
It's like has this happenedincrementally?
(09:51):
Is this a very incremental?
Speaker 2 (09:54):
thing that's happened to us.
Did you ever read what was it?
It's not the Scarlet Letter, itwas the Crucible, crucible.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Arthur Miller, with the witches, oh, I did.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Was it Goody Proctor?
I forget his name.
Do you remember the one guy whothey think is a witch?
And they put him in the pit andthey just start putting stones
on his body?
And you know, he's just like.
I am so tired of these buffoonsand their witchery, but they
think I'm a witch.
So you know what I'm going tosay to them.
I'm just going to say moreweight.
And then they crush him byputting stones on his body and
(10:25):
he dies that way, which is areal thing.
That happened to people.
But I mean, like it is prettyepic that he was like more
weight.
I feel like that's us, I feellike that is us right.
And when I say us, I don't meanClark and Bruce, I mean
collective, the corporate famand everyone in corporate.
There is just this additiveweight that keeps happening.
(10:47):
And what you said is actuallywhat I think we need to diagnose
on today's episode as ourimpromptu topic.
When you are asked to do morefaster, does that actually make
it so?
Because in my, in this man'shumble opinion, when someone
says, hey, I need you to do thistoo, or like, can you
prioritize this, and then I dropeverything else in priority, I
(11:10):
feel like.
What actually ends up happeningis the context switching plus
the.
Just the general frazzlednessof my very fragile nature makes
me a lot slower.
And had they just waited andwere patient and said we're
going to add this to the bottomof the stack, get to it when you
can, I feel like the qualitywould have been better and I
probably would have got it donefaster.
(11:31):
But because we need this rightnow, go, go, go, go go.
What's going to end uphappening is it's not going to
get done as fast as it actuallycould.
I'm going to become clinicallydepressed and want to quit my
job.
Also, a good indicator of how Ifeel is, when I walk away from
my desk, how deep the sighs are,and this week the sighs are
deep.
Let me tell you I'm just right,like it's momentous.
(11:55):
Do you agree with thatassessment?
Speaker 1 (12:00):
I do.
But I have a question for you.
You would consider yourself ahigh-capacity worker, right?
You can take on a lot.
Would you consider yourself ahigh-capacity worker?
Right, you can take on a lot.
Would you consider yourselfthat when you?
Look across your peers, yourpeers, your team.
You're like I take on a lot.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
It's not even close.
It's not even close and I don'tthink any of my team would
disagree.
They're asking can I help you?
And I'm like I wish that youcould.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
I really do, but you know, it's interesting Play this
mind game out with me, allright, I love mind games Go your
high capacity.
I'm high capacity.
When I ask my team to take onmore, what I often find is they
(12:50):
don't know how to do itefficiently, and the way I do it
is different than how they doit.
And then, when I kind of getinto it, I'm like why is it
taking them so long to do this?
And I'm like, hey, you know,maybe I have some tips of how
you could actually do thisreally quick.
Like do you want to sittogether and do it?
I show them something that blowstheir minds and they're like
holy cow, like that was actuallygreat, like like now I
understand how you do this soquick.
I'm like, yeah, you know, youjust gotta have the right system
, you gotta use the right tool.
You know, whatever, whateverthe, the hack is in that
(13:11):
scenario.
Some things are not and allthings are not equal, but that's
what I've noticed a little bit.
So do the people above us thatask us to do more and they're
just, oh, yeah, just take onvideo recording and producing
and screen reading, like you gotthat?
Do they know something youdon't?
Speaker 2 (13:26):
No, okay, well, that was a fun mind game.
I really appreciate playingthat.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Thanks, Clark, I do this with myself because I'm
like, okay, well, if I ask myteam to do something and they
don't know how to do it fast orgood enough, and then I sit with
them, I kind of show them andI'm like, okay, now they get it,
like now I'm seeing the fasteroutput, it makes me think people
above me that think that thingscan be done fast Do they know
something I don't know?
Speaker 2 (13:56):
So, in my org specifically, I can't do what my
boss does, my boss can't dowhat I can do, and my team can't
do what I do and I can't dowhat they can do, if that makes
sense.
So no one is capable of doingthe things that either their
(14:20):
upper or subsequent person does,which leaves you very much in a
.
The only way to really fix thisproblem is to add more repeat
skills to the mix.
Like we're, we're very welldiversitized in a skill
portfolio, but we have noredundancy on the team at all.
(14:44):
I have one teammate that Iwould say is redundant and she's
phenomenal, and the one thing Idon't want to do is have her in
the same situation where I amBasically like oh, you get to go
do this now.
I hope you don't jump off acliff today, today, uh, you know
(15:08):
like I want to be protective ofthe workload and the bandwidth
and the weight that I would senddown to her.
So I I don't uh that.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
That means I do carry more, you know, it's just uh
yeah, it is interesting the twoperspectives of you're in a
startup well, you said, makessense.
It's like your team isn't bigenough and your company isn't at
the size to have specializedskill sets Right, like you kind
of own a general domain ofthings or a vertical of things
(15:35):
in your portfolio and you guysare responsible for that
function in its entirety.
For me it's like I am very,very specialized into product
management so the redundancy ishigh because it's we're built
because of the scale that wehave to operate.
If someone's out, someone juststeps in Right.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
You have a team of product managers.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Yeah, I have a team of product managers who has a
team of product owners on theirteam and so, like if someone's
out like I could theoreticallystep in and do their job because
I have the same skillset andcapability.
I don't think it always goesthe other way, like I think the
upwards trajectory is like theyprobably can't do some of the
(16:18):
things that I do because theydon't have the context, they
don't have the experience orthey haven't been in all these
situations.
So again experience.
So like been in all thesesituations, again experience.
So like it doesn't really workboth ways, but it certainly
works that I can.
I could step in and help myteam if they needed me to.
Yours is totally different.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
I think that's good, though.
I think that's normal and thatshould be expected, right Like,
in order to get to the nextlevel, I feel like you have to
be able to do the previous level.
That's how it should be.
I know that's not how it is,but that's how it should be.
And you know, at a startup youdon't hire that way, right Like,
I'm hiring, I have a need and Ineed a hire to fill that need.
(16:57):
The reason that need exists isbecause no one at the startup
can do that job.
So I'm very cognizant, like Iam in a different position and a
lot of my frustrations andcomplaints are just because it
is startup and it is exhausting.
And I am, unfortunately, verytalented and very diverse in my
skill set, which, like seemsgreat on paper, but then you
(17:19):
realize, like, what it means asfar as expectations, capacity
and outcome, and it's just amaddening, frustrating
experience.
It's just exhausting at the endof the day.
But to come back to my mainthought, I still feel like the
expectation is more than it usedto be, and that's not just
(17:41):
startup.
I do feel like the expectationis more, do faster, do more,
better quality Cause you cause.
I think businesses in general,are just competing a lot harder
than they used to.
We're in a, we're in a badmarket right now, right, like we
talked about the jobs reportlast week Not a lot of them.
When there's less jobs, there'sless spending.
When there's less spending,there's less income and profit
(18:03):
for companies.
So companies become a lot morebrutal, a lot more cutthroat.
I got to, I got to beat mycompetitor because every sale is
either life or death for thecompany.
Like it's.
It's very like violent language, I mean, like you know, you
think about it, but it is likebusinesses become almost like
violent in the way that I haveto outperform them because they
(18:26):
or us won't be here in two years, right, and I think that that
mentality that sort of it isalmost war-esque is being pushed
down to us and we'reessentially soldiers in this
fight now, and every battle youlose is a potential.
Now, uh, and every battle youlose is a potential, you know,
(18:49):
achilles heel for the company, Idon't know it just like it
feels oppressive.
It feels very, very oppressiveright now and I don't think it's
going to get better yeah, youknow this, this topic is really
timely, I you know.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Let me tell you a story.
Let's sit down together, let'stell a.
Tell a story.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Sorry, I've been seated this whole time.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Oh, have you been?
Oh, I've been standing.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Sorry.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
You should probably think about if you should stand
or not.
You don't have to, but thinkabout it.
All right.
Okay, we're together.
I don't like that swivel.
Nobody can see what you'redoing right now, but I don't
like it.
Okay, I'm going to set a storyfor you.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Okay, so last year, 24, a good year yeah 2024.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
It was a good year.
I had a employee that's one ofmy manager's employees, but I
know them well.
I had them come to us and say,hey, I want more opportunity, I
want to take on more, I want toshow that I'm ready, kind of,
for that next level.
So he said, okay, great, youknow there's.
We're always looking foropportunities to kind of like
stretch a new skill set or learnor be able to step into
(19:55):
something that's higher capacityor more strategic or whatever
it is.
So we gave this personadditional responsibility this
year to say, okay, well, let'ssee how to handle it.
We'll give them a little moreresponsibility.
And in the beginning of theyear they had some personal
stuff go on and so like that wastotally understandable, like
hey, no worries, we're going tofigure this out together.
(20:18):
And lately it's actually gottento the point where this person
is just struggling.
They can't keep up with theworkload and we're at the point
where it's like it's almost timeto take the responsibility away
from them.
Or, if they want to keep it,it's almost like performance
discussion time, because it'sstarting to impact many teams.
And they said they could do it.
(20:39):
They haven't expressed concernsaround doing it, but we
constantly see the indicatorsthat they're not performing over
and over and over again.
And so I sat down with themthis week as a skip level
management meeting and I wasjust like hey, I'm concerned
just about your performance.
You know we wanted to stretchyou this year, but we're just
not seeing you being able tohave the capacity to do it.
And they looked at me and theysaid I have 10 spinning plates
(20:59):
right now and they're like everyday I feel like a new plate is
coming into the mix and I'm likeI'm about to drop one of the
plates and they're like I can'tkeep up.
I'm working a ton.
You know I'm taking on more andmore and more, and as I kind of
sat with them and kind of heardwhat was going on, it made me
think about the power of no.
And what I told this person islike you can't be afraid to say
(21:21):
no.
You've got I mean, especiallyin product management like
prioritization is everything.
Not everything can be a toppriority.
You've got to be able toprioritize what are the most
important spinning plates andsay no to other things.
And when people come to youtelling you to do something else
, don't just take it in, saylike, okay, you know I don't
think that fits in my priorities, but if you think it does,
(21:42):
here's my top 10.
You know, do you think I shoulddrop one of those so I can take
this on too?
Like the power of offeringtrade-offs, to say I can take
that on, but something elseneeds to give, and so I
basically you can take that on,but something else needs to give
.
And so I basically you know,pretty directly asked the person
I was like next week, I want toknow what four things are you
dropping from those 10 right now?
Like you need to drop it nextweek immediately.
Like, give us a recommendationof your top four things you're
(22:04):
getting rid of on your plate,because in reality, not all of
those, even though I wish theycould be can be the top priority
.
And I think that goes back toyour sentiment of like, how do
you kind of combat this?
How do you handle thissituation?
And when you're early in yourcareer, like saying yes to
things is good, you should beaccepting more opportunities,
should be looking for moreopportunity, but you need to
(22:25):
make sure you under commit andover deliver on that opportunity
and be realistic.
When your plate becomes heavyor you get too many plates
balancing or spinning in motion,you've got to say bruce, so
happy you brought this, uh, thisnew project to my attention.
You know I'd love to take thison.
Frankly, I just don't think Ihave the bandwidth.
You know, here's my projectlist and I don't think this is
(22:48):
more important than anythinghere.
But if you'd like me to dropone of these, I can do that and
and I can pick this up.
Just let me know which one youwant me to drop, and so I feel
like that's maybe theconversation that we need to
remember can happen.
It's not just yes, yes, yes,more, more, more.
I'm just going to do it.
It's like no, actually, justlist out the things that you're
doing that's taking up themajority of your time and tell
(23:09):
them which thing do you want meto get rid of?
So I can do this and just leaveit up to the person asking you.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
You know what's so funny.
I love this.
I did 50% of this this week.
Yeah, you got asked to dosomething.
Yeah well, it's not good, I'lltell you, because the 50% is the
problem.
We got asked to do somethingthat literally no one on my team
had bandwidth for or could do.
So I said we have no bandwidth,In fact, we're all over
(23:36):
capacity, and they're like, ohwell, it needs to get done.
I'm like I agree.
So I guess I'll just do it then, and that was the problem.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
That's a critical mistake you made there.
You got to rewind thatconversation and be like what's
coming off?
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Nothing because everything else is already in
play and due in the next twoweeks.
So that's the problem, right Isthere is there is no coming off
the priority list and we're notgoing to not do this thing
because it costs us $20,000.
So we have to do it and we haveto get it done in time.
Like it's just there.
(24:16):
I would love to be able tonegotiate priorities and maybe
that's my next step is, likereally starting to keep a list
of like.
Here's our priorities, here'sour list, what's coming off,
what's going in.
But unfortunately, becausewe're so lean and because we are
so focused on all value all thetime I don, we're so lean and
because we are so focused on allvalue all the time, I don't
(24:37):
know.
I don't know if there's anynegotiation to be had.
It's the only negotiation ishow many extra hours are you
working this week for no actualreward or satisfaction.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Uh, yeah, I always tell my team and you're to your
point.
I mean, you're in a startup, solike, in that case, yeah,
that's tough, like everything'sa priority fires can happen
every day and in my case that'stough, like everything's a
priority Fires can happen everyday, and in my case it's like
it's totally and I think mostpeople who work at traditional
corporate sense totally in yourrealm to control your priorities
and offer those trade-offs.
So you're not just saying no, no, no, all the time.
(25:05):
You're saying you know, maybethere's an opportunity to take
this on, but here's alleverything on my list, Like what
can I deprioritize and thethree levers that I think are
important.
Maybe the best tip I can sharemaybe not in your scenario, but
maybe in your scenario time,scope, resources.
So can I extend the time?
Can I have a little more timefor this project?
Like, instead of next Monday,can it be the following, so I
(25:26):
can get it done by beginning ofOctober?
Like that's an option.
If that's not an option, it'slike okay, can we reduce the
scope of this?
Can I cut the scope of this by10%, 20%.
Remove this page, remove thatpart of the project, remove this
feature, whatever it is, andthat way I think we can still
get it done on time.
And on budget or resources, CanI have more money?
(25:47):
Can I hire somebody?
Can I, you know, whatever it isthat you need, can I buy a new
tool that's going to help meaccelerate it?
Like the resources are anotherlever you can pull and so like,
as you're having these toughconversations, I think you have
to.
You have to think about allthose as you're proposing
recommendations.
So not just saying no, butsaying maybe.
But here's what I would suggest, like give me more time, Give
(26:11):
me let me cut a little bit ofscope here or give me more
resources.
And if all those things are areno like to your point, a
resource is also, or time isalso.
Yeah, working extra hours, likesometimes it's we're working a
weekend and that that sucks, butin reality that might be the
only option where it's just likeI think we gotta, I gotta have
my team work this weekend.
(26:32):
You know, morale is morale isgoing to take a hit, but if
that's the only option, then ifI'm talking to my boss, I'm like
, hey, we're working the weekend, my team's not going to be
thrilled about it, but that'sthe only way I can see us
getting this done.
Are you okay with that?
And like those are all theconversations I think you as a
manager, especially if it'simpacting your team have to have
.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Yeah, I just.
You know, I know we're at time.
You got to go Time.
I'm just over it.
I'm over it.
I'm over all it.
I do appreciate your advice,clark.
As always, I think you do havethe right approach and response.
I just have to figure out howto work it into my life.
Yeah Well, thanks.
Thank you for being mytherapist, clark, and I hope
(27:12):
that our listeners.
If you're in a situation similarto mine, you've got something
out of this.
We do have to run.
It's a quickie this week, butit doesn't make it any less
valuable.
If you want to join in theconversation, do so by hitting
the show notes, getting on ourDiscord, having a good time.
Support the show by buying us acoffee.
Listen to an ad, share the podwith your friends.
Throw the podcast in yourneighbor's doorstep, ring the
(27:35):
doorbell, run away, do it.
Do it now.
If you're not doing it, thenyou don't love us.
And if you don't love us, whyare you listening to us?
Uh, thanks, as always, for forbeing a listener and being a
friend.
We appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
I'm bruce and I'm clark we'll do the ai challenge
next week, I promise we promisewe'll do it.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
you're on'll do the AI challenge next week.
I promise, we promise, we'll doit.
You're on mute.
We'll see you next week.
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