August 18, 2025 • 62 mins
Bruce and Clark explore the concept of "inshittification" – how quality decreases while prices increase across products, services, and experiences – before concluding their appreciation language series with crucial insights about workplace recognition.
• Nostalgic reflection on past experiences (like 1990s Taco Bell) compared to current declining quality and increasing prices
• Examination of the five appreciation languages and how they function in modern workplaces
• Discussion of whether personal relationships are necessary for genuine appreciation
• Special considerations for showing appreciation to remote workers
• Managing appreciation for people with different personalities or working styles
• The importance of consistent appreciation rather than selective recognition
• How appreciation changes (or should change) at different organizational levels
• Tips for appreciating team members when their work is good but personalities clash
Join our Discord community through the link in our show notes – it's free, safe, and filled with professionally-minded people looking to improve their work experiences and careers.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Say it again All you have in this life is this
podcast.
It'll never leave you, it'llnever forsake you, it'll never
do you wrong.
It'll just be here for you Likea solid foundation, just to
return to you whenever you wantto feel at home, whenever you
want to look at Clarkie boy,he'll be here for you.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
You know what I want to return to?
I want to go, I want to, I wantto go, I want to, I want to go
back.
I want to go back in time tothe time when Taco Bell uh, the
primary colors were pastel, blueand purple and white.
Yeah, I want to live there, Iwant to stay there and I never
want to leave that era.
(00:44):
There's no blu-ray, there'sonly dvd, and they're dirt cheap
.
There's no netflix, there'sblockbuster.
Yeah, there's movie gallerythey're so nice there's no
Bitcoin or stupid.
(01:07):
I'm not even going to call itartificial intelligence, because
it's not, and I'm sick andtired of us calling it that
Because we're so freakingpathetic as a species we can't
even invent real AI.
We create freaking chatbotgirlfriends that code up the
worst secured programs on theplanet.
No, I want to go back.
I want to go back to Taco Bell.
(01:29):
I want the walls to be pastel,blue, purple and white.
I want a Chalupa.
I want a Crunchwrap Supreme,and it's only going to cost me
99 cents.
Now, each of those thingsindividually is 99 cents, but
guess what?
(01:49):
For $7, I'm not going to eatfor a week.
I want to go back.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
You're not going to want to eat for a week.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
I'm not going to want to eat for a week.
That's the satisfaction of itall.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Satisfaction is a bold word for Taco Bell.
Satisfaction is a bold word forTaco Bell.
I can tell.
I can tell you're going throughsomething right now.
I think.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
I should just let you , let you go.
Do you ever think about the factthat, literally you know five,
10 years before we started work,you could literally get by in
your day just by like puttingsome numbers in a spreadsheet
and hitting save and then takingthat spreadsheet, and like
(02:33):
putting it on a disc and thenputting that disc in someone
else's computer and you've doneyour job.
But, like now, everything we dois instantaneous.
Oh, that spreadsheet's inOneDrive.
It's not syncing.
It's not syncing.
It's not syncing.
I needed this five seconds ago.
Why isn't it syncing?
Where's your number?
Why isn't it there?
Oh, it's in the other OneDrive.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
It's in the other spreadsheet, it's over there,
that's not the one you sent me.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
That's not the one everyone has access to.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
I know it's crazy that we have this awesome
version control and all of uscan work collaboratively on the
same document, but you didn'tsave v12 underscore final and
you were supposed to say v12underscore final.
Why didn't you save it?
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Oh, oh.
I'm looking at the version.
History Turns out I did put thenumbers in there.
You dingbat, Someone deleted it.
Oh, why do they have access tothis?
They're not even in ourorganization.
What are they doing in here?
Why are they doing this?
Why am I having to do that?
Why am I having to performforensic detective work on a
(03:33):
budget spreadsheet I didn't know?
You worked at a fine.
I want to go back to Taco Bell.
I want the walls to be pink andblue and white pastel.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
You know what I miss?
When the dollar menu was adollar and also when you could
play Super Mario Sunshine inyour local McDonald's.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Remember those days.
I remember the days when youcould play Super Mario 64 in the
McDonald's they have the littlecontrollers and the little
bungee thing.
You just they had it all tapedtogether.
Yeah, they actually got a goodplastic bubble.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Like you got a toy in your kid's mill and it was good
yeah it was good.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
So so you know people listening will.
They will say they'll be like,oh, y'all are just nostalgic.
No, there's actually a word forthis and it's true, and it's
real, it's happening,unfortunately it's.
It's a word that's not safe forlittle ears, so if you're under
18, please stop listening, okay, thanks.
Uh, it's calledinshittification and it's a real
(04:40):
thing and it it's happeningeverywhere, to everything, all
around us, all at once, at everymoment of the day.
Literally everything has beenin shitified and has gotten
worse.
Isn't that great?
And it costs more money too.
And for some reason I'msupposed to be happy and
satisfied and thrilled with myexistence, knowing that tomorrow
(05:05):
is going to be shittier thantoday.
Isn't that fantastic.
Isn't this a great path thatwe're on?
Clark?
Speaker 2 (05:14):
I'm worried about you .
Speaker 1 (05:16):
You should be worried about the planet.
We are on a roller coaster to apoint where, five years from
now, like literally, you're justgoing to be watching AI slop
and that's going to be yourentertainment.
It's going to be trying tofigure out.
Not, you're not going to bewatching reruns of the Office.
You're going to be watchingwhat AI thinks the Office is and
it's going to be like hi, I'mJim, I'm Pem.
(05:38):
Oh, let's mix our facestogether.
Hmm, this is what you're, thisis what we're careening towards,
because we can't pay people tobe creative anymore.
We let robots do it for us.
We can't afford to go to TacoBell because the freaking
Crunchwrap Supreme costs $7.
Now we can't have it both ways.
(06:02):
Like everything can't be shittyand simultaneously expensive.
It's not normal.
It used to be.
If you wanted the crap, you'dgo to the dollar store and you
knew you were getting crap, butit only cost a dollar.
Now the crap costs $7.
I could literally go to a nicerestaurant and spend the same
(06:25):
amount of money that I wouldspend at McDonald's if I got a
meal for me and my spouse.
We're careening towards it.
Clark, third worldification ofthe life that I once knew and
loved.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
You know, I was thinking about that.
The spreadsheet is justupdating itself now.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Oh, I don't know why those cells have weird
characters in them that aren'treadable to humans.
I didn't do it.
If I look at the versionhistory, no one did it.
Apparently it just appearedthere, but it's my problem to
fix now.
Everything sucks, everythingsucks.
Name me one thing that doesn'tsuck, and don't you dare say
(07:07):
this podcast.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
You know I was going to go right there.
Don't you dare, hey, don't youdare say this podcast, craig
does not suck.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
You know I'm giving it.
Craig is like the outlier inall of this A free utility that
actively works and has continuedto work for over.
I mean, we've been on podcastmode for four or five years now
and the fact that Craig stillworks I mean miracles do happen.
(07:41):
Craig is proof of that.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
But philosophically he's also not getting any better
.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
No he never will.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
At any point he could shift into the enchitification
curve.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
That is exactly what I'm saying.
That's exactly what I'm sayingthere is no hope of things
getting better.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
You know, I was going to say did insurification start
since the dawn of time?
But then I thought about it no,oh, it had to be incredible
through the IndustrialRevolution and everything like
that.
And then it's like when was theturning point?
What was the turning point?
Speaker 1 (08:19):
society that got us here.
It's never been more clear thanit is when you look at
automobiles.
That is the perfect curve ofinshittification in real life,
because you think about justthink about the 1980s, right,
like you think about the cars ofthe 80s those boxy designs,
yeah, but those cars still runtoday Now, yes, the engines do
(08:44):
wear out and yes, the parts dowear out, but it was not
unfathomable.
I remember my parents had a1985 Honda Civic that they drove
into the 2000s.
Thing had like 200,000 miles onit.
Good luck my 2007 Honda Civic.
The engine melted at year 10.
It straight up melted on themiddle of the highway.
(09:06):
I wasn't going 100 miles anhour, I was literally going 70.
And I noticed the little heatindex in my car.
It's like, hey, your engine'soverheating.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
By the way.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
I had to coast in neutral to get home and then it
never started again because itactually melted.
2007 Honda Civic that was stillgood.
That was still in the goldenera of taco bell.
Look at the cars today.
Do you know how many times my2024 honda crv has been recalled
in the last year?
Now, granted, some of this canbe attributed to.
(09:42):
Well, we've got better, we'vegot better analytics, we've got
better insights, we've gotbetter knowledge and all of
these things.
But is it a good car?
Is this car gonna last me likethat?
That 1985 honda it was a hondaaccord.
It lasted 20 years.
Like I don't think it's goingto, it's all going to die.
(10:06):
And it costs me.
Do you know how much more itcosts for this stupid car than
it costs for that Accord?
It's real.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
You can see it, I don't disagree with you.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Look at the airlines.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Yeah, airlines, prime example.
Also my AC unit, which is justdoing a job this time of year
where we live.
It literally is still my ACunit.
It's the original one from thehouse.
It was built in 84.
So it's like an 84 unit andthat thing is still pumping.
I know many people who just gotnew units last year crapping
(10:40):
out on them and every singletime I call up old Hank.
He doesn't have a website.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
He gets cashed hank, he doesn't have a website.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
He gets.
No, he doesn't have a website,no website.
I had to call him and he's likecan I be there in 10 minutes?
I'm like, yeah, absolutely,please you better no paperwork,
nothing.
He's like now I get the parts,yeah, just you know, pay me in
cash.
It's cool, and he just fixed it, went on his way.
He's like keep that thingforever, like, we'll do, we'll
do, we'll do.
Mr Hank, that was my waterheater.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
I have a water heater from literally had it from the
day the house was built, I thinkin 2000 and 2009,.
My house was built, waterheater just lasted.
The problem was, is it's notenergy efficient?
So like it was to the pointthat it's like well, we should
probably replace our waterheater because it's not energy
efficient at all.
Things terrible for theenvironment, but these things
they're like well, you know,your new one's only going to
(11:32):
last five years.
It's like well what's worse?
Having something that's energyefficient that lasts forever, or
having to replace somethingevery five years giant, freaking
water heater you're going tothrow away and add to the waste
Like I can't find any singleobject that I'm surrounded by
that hasn't been enshitified insome way, shape or form.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Fair.
So yeah, I'm doing great.
Welcome back to CorporateStrategy Podcast.
It's going to be an email.
I'm Bruce and I can't wait totalk about appreciation.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Who are you?
Oh me, I'm Bruce, and I can'twait to talk about appreciation.
Who are you?
Oh me, I'm little old Clark.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Oh hey little old Clark.
Little old Clark, who lived ina shoe, had so many children,
didn't know what to do.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
And I know him and you do too.
Little old Clark that lived ina shoe.
How are we not millionaires onthis podcast?
This is gold.
You know what's not and shouldhave bought this podcast and I
stand by it.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
I think the mere fact that we have managed to
continue to do this for fiveyears and set time aside in our
week and we haven't I mean, wedo use ai for the show notes,
but who gives a crap?
No one reads those thingsanyway like I would say, you
know, it's a miracle that we'vemaintained and that we haven't
(12:57):
like just gone I mean, ifanything, the quality has only
improved over time I would saythe appreciation series is truly
one of the pinnacles ofresearch, reporting,
investigative analysis onsomething, discussion.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
The self-reflection on what we're doing in our
current jobs, making thecorporate world a better place.
This is the opposite.
This is it.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
If you've listened to the last five episodes and
you've practiced any of this, Ipromise you you have made your
workplace a better place.
I have done it and I have mademy workplace a better place and
people have noticed.
They literally said, hey,thanks for asking, Thanks for
doing this, Like if you're notdoing it.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
what are you doing Exactly?
Why are you listening to thisif you're not going to do any of
it?
Speaker 1 (13:42):
My call to action to our listeners is you know you
are surrounded by andshitification.
We all are, and we can't escapeit.
And then eventually we'll killall of us.
That's a guarantee.
Maybe not in our lifetime, butcertainly in the next hundred
years.
We are all absolutely screwed,but you can be part of the
resistance.
(14:02):
You can.
You can stand up and say, no,I'm mad as hell, I'm not going
to take it anymore, and you canput quality out there.
You can do the human thing, dothe human work, and do it with
quality, and do it with a smileand know that you went down
swinging and that's why I needtherapy.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
You know what I feel like.
You don't feel appreciated bythe world.
I would love if people couldshow you a little appreciation,
make you feel appreciated inthis world.
He's keeled over.
(14:49):
He's crying, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
I can't compose myself right now.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
I'm sweating, I'm crying at this point.
I don't know what the liquidsare, but they're going down my
face.
I shouldn't say this.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Who cares?
Who listens to this podcast?
I told someone today please saythank you to my teammate.
You did not.
You had to ask them.
I did.
I didn't ask them.
I told them Say hey, they'vedone a lot for you.
Tell them thank you in a publicfashion, please.
This is my, my mental state.
(15:31):
Oh, my gosh.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Orange.
That's terrible.
Yeah, you're seeing.
You're seeing red, aren't you?
Speaker 1 (15:38):
I, I see everything.
I see everything At all times.
Knowledge is a curse and aburden listen, I've got my CAC
score.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
I've got my CAC score and it ain't pretty, but I'll
tell you one thing.
My boss did something reallygreat this week.
Really somebody on my team, mymore senior manager, she did an
awesome presentation to ourchief technology officer, did an
awesome presentation, crushedit, she crushed it.
She even looked at me after shehad this glow in her eyes.
(16:12):
She's like I crushed that.
I'm like hell, yeah, youcrushed that.
And my boss comes over andshe's like, hey, that was really
really great, you did anawesome job, thank you for doing
that Left the room.
I was like this is appreciationin the workplace.
And guess what?
My employee no, no, she doesnot listen to the pod, but I
(16:34):
will express my gratitude and myappreciation.
But also, she's going on aseven day vacation, so she's
leaving on a high.
It's like listen, I justpresented to the big boss, I
crushed it.
I got the recognition from tothe big boss.
I crushed it, I got therecognition from my boss's boss.
Now I'm going on vacation.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
How good of a finish right high the number of people
going on a seven-day vacation injust my general vicinity in the
next two weeks is unfathomable.
Like just, you just added onemore to the list, but it it is
wild to me.
No one is working in the nexttwo weeks except for me.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
It's that time of year.
Obviously it's that time ofyear.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
It's been that time of year since June.
It can't always be that time ofyear.
It cannot Summer.
When does summer end?
Speaker 2 (17:21):
I know when.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
I know when summer ended.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
It's when Taco Bell painted the walls ooh died yeah,
you know what sounds greatright now if you say a flavor of
soda that's exactly what I wasgoing to say, that is turquoise
turquoise in color.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
You can get it in an icy.
Exactly what I was going to saythat is, turquoise in color,
you can get it in an Icy, and itused to cost 99 cents for a
large.
Oh, that's incredible.
That's right, we're talkingabout Mountain Dew, baja Blast.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
It was incredible.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
It definitely made your liver blue, but it was
incredible do you think thisepisode didn't just make the
liver blue?
Speaker 2 (18:18):
well, it's not due.
In general, I mean, it's one ofthe side effects.
You got to read the terms, youknow I mean diabetes, is a
positive outcome.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
That's all you get.
You're good, you're golden.
A Pepsi product, no less Ourfavorite soda brand.
On the Corporate StrategyPodcast.
Yeah we love Pepsi here, didyou not know?
Speaker 2 (18:40):
No, no, I knew that.
I just didn't know Baja Blastand Mountain Dew were a Pepsi
brand.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
This is good to know.
Pepsico yeah, it's good to know.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Good to know.
Do you think we're going totalk about anything important
here or do you think this isjust going to keep going in the
direction it's going?
Did you hear my clock?
You took too long to answer andI didn't hear your clock.
It was such a long, awkwardpause.
(19:12):
We think it's awkward for us.
I'm looking at you.
Imagine someone who doesn'thave a visual.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
They have no visual cue they're like did his mic
drop out?
And honestly, I wish it did thethe yes, I think this pod is
going somewhere.
I think all of this is goingsomewhere.
It's all adding up to somethingvery important, believe it or
not, something monumental.
You might even say, I would saythe finale of the Appreciation
(19:38):
Series.
This is it.
It's all been leading up tothis and I'm going to put our
listeners on blast.
Y'all did not respond to any ofthe call to actions we gave you
last week not a single one,because we wanted to share this
experience with you and youclearly don't want to share it
back with us.
So that's on you.
Um, I think, clark, we soldieron and we talk about, we, we
(19:58):
close, we wrap this sucker up, Iagree, like a crunchwrap
Supreme in that waxy paper.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
you know what this guy.
I want you to look at GaryChapman in the eyes.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Clark is showing me a picture of the author of the
book, gary Chapman, phd.
And, yeah, paul White.
Yeah, they, they definitelylook like their names they
absolutely do.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
You know, when some people just look like their
names, that's that like you lookat that and you're like I could
have called you gary, like ifI've never met you or seen you
in my whole entire life I'd belike gary, that's a gary do you
know, what I've ever told youwhat I look like.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
What do I look like to you?
What would you call me?
If I wasn't bruce, who wouldyou call me?
Speaker 2 (20:33):
oh, what would I give your name, chase?
Speaker 1 (20:41):
chase my goodness, I can see it wow, believe it or
not, and this is a weirdphenomenon and we are going to
move on.
I I swear, but uh, believe itor not, I've gotten andrew more
than my own name.
Oh yeah, people call me andrewmore than my real name and it
wigs me out Like I've thoughtabout.
(21:02):
Should I just change my name toAndrew, because everyone calls
me that and even when they knowmy name, my real name, they
don't do it.
It's bizarre.
You know what you look like.
I would love to call you BenjiBenji.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
I kind of like.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Benji hey Benji, what's going on?
I could be a Benji, you couldabsolutely be a Benji.
Now that?
Speaker 2 (21:23):
you said Andrew I see it.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Yeah, isn't it tragic ?
Speaker 2 (21:27):
I might call you that on accident one time.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
You probably will Like.
We've known each other forliterally half of our lives and
you're going to be like oh, dangit.
Oh, I meant Bruce, Andrew,how's it going.
Oh shoot, you'll just becomeone of the many.
That's it.
That's your destiny.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Hey, I was going to say we should do actually.
No, we should do the importantstuff.
I'm going to save this for theend.
I wrote something down.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
And I don't know if you remember.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
But I wrote it down and we're going to talk about it
at the end.
Let's do it, but we have tojump into appreciation.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
This is the finale.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
We've gone through all five appreciation languages.
We started with words ofaffirmation, stepped into
quality time, went into act ofservice, handed each other
tangible gifts, and then wetouched Physical touch, but
appropriate physical touch.
We went through all of them.
We talked about the do's, thedon'ts, the things you should do
to make people feel appreciated, but you know what we haven't
(22:22):
done?
We haven't answered the hardquestions, Bruce.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
The tough ones.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Oh, okay, and I'm ready to discuss, I'm ready to
break them down together.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
I didn't realize this was coming.
Let's do it.
Okay, I'm not.
I'm scared, but let's go, it'sgoing to be a little crazy.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
I think we need to turn our spin on the
appreciation languages.
Oh, I'm ready, okay, okay.
Question number one All right.
You ready?
Does it have to be personal toappreciate somebody?
(23:02):
Do I have to have a personalconnection with you Outside of
work to appreciate you?
Speaker 1 (23:11):
No, no, I'll even give an example Literally new
employee I've been working with,come on, just doing absolute
great work Making my life better, and I've already told them
multiple times like thank you,I'm grateful for you, you're
really just making my lifebetter by the work you're doing.
They're not on my team, theydon't report to me, they're not
(23:33):
even really part of myorganization, but like I felt
the need to reach out and tellthem Do you know anything about
this person outside of theirname?
No, no, and they genuinelyanything about this person
outside of their name?
No, no, and they genuine, likeI feel like their reaction was
genuine, like genuineappreciation of my appreciation
of them.
Yeah, it's interesting, but Ithink I think what happened in
that, that moment ofconnectivity, is, you know, I
(23:55):
wanted to show them how much Iappreciated what they were doing
, because if someone did that tome it would make my life.
They won't, but if they didit'd be great.
I always try to live by, youknow.
I mean like it's, it's truly.
I grew up in a veryconservative Christian world and
, uh, one thing that's alwaysstuck with me is do unto others
as you want to do to you.
(24:16):
And even as I've moved away fromthat upbringing, uh, stuck it
sticks with me, it sticks in mycraw, like I hope one day the
energy I put out there will bedone back to me, and not just
for my own self-satisfaction andselfishness, but I truly think
that's how you make the world abetter place.
So I see this person doing thework.
I reach out to them, I tellthem hey, thank you, like, truly
(24:36):
, you are helping me and all ofour peers by doing this.
You didn't have to do this.
It's really making a differenceand an impact and I just want
to say thank you, even thoughyou know you're fairly new, but
what that has done is it hascreated a personal relationship
because we talked about it andnow I feel like there's a
comfort that wasn't there before.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Yeah, whether you call it good karma, goodwill,
positive energy going on in theworld, I agree with you.
That is the energy that shouldbe put down.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
It doesn't need to start personal, but it will
always be personal, yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
That's what I've been going back and forth in my head
, because in the book they domention you know, relationships
are built upon relating to andwith one another and to truly
appreciate them.
This is their quote.
If you truly appreciate someonein a relationship, it must
exist.
If you don't have arelationship with them and you
look at them as just a resource,you can't actually appreciate
(25:29):
them.
It flows from valuing theperson.
If you don't value them ortheir work, getting to know them
as a person can help changethat.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
I don't think I've agreed with anything in that
book more than I agree with thatstatement.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
I agree, I'm with you .
Speaker 1 (25:44):
I think far too often we look at people.
We even call them resources,right like you do.
That's hiring a resource yeah,like we can't look at people
like they're machines, we haveto look at them like they're
people.
The fact that someone shows upto work to do their job is a
gift, in my opinion, and ittruly is right.
(26:06):
When someone does their job, Iam thrilled.
So I mean yeah, I love that.
I wholeheartedly agree.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Yeah, it is interesting.
You know, as I think back, I'vebeen reflecting a lot lately
with this book.
Just going through it, I'm likeam I showing appreciation to my
team in the way that they wantto feel appreciated?
How can I do better, similar toyou, trying to give back and
make sure I'm actually doing thethings that we talk about?
And I was torn.
I was like, but I canappreciate someone and not know
(26:33):
anything about them.
But, to your point, like everysingle example that I found, I
looked at people.
I looked at them across theroom, I looked at them at work.
I'm working with you for sixmonths.
I've been working with you forsix years.
I've been working with yousince the day I started.
And who do I actuallyappreciate?
And I noticed the trend of thepeople I actually appreciate.
I know stuff about thempersonally, because I think, as
(26:54):
we talked about in our lastepisode, it's only human to kind
of go to that next level.
And once you connect at thatnext level, then you really
start to appreciate and be ableto relate to the other person
and you're more willing toappreciate them as well.
And so it was reallyinteresting because at the
beginning I was like there's no,it's not necessary.
I don't even know anythingabout you and I can still
appreciate you for the work thatyou're doing, but the more I
(27:15):
thought about it I'm like no, Ithink you can start that way,
like you said, but I think italways ends knowing a little bit
about the other person.
That helps.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
You can't know anything about a person until
you reach out to them.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Yep, absolutely All right.
Another one for you, hard one,hard question.
Number two Remote workers.
How do you try and understandtheir appreciation language?
How do we accommodate theremote worker?
And maybe first, what do youthink is their primary for
remote workers?
The top primary appreciationlanguage.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
I've been a remote employee for 10 years now and
work for a completely remotecompany.
You could absolutely do wordsof appreciation.
Obviously, duh.
It means more when it includesif you're going to thank someone
(28:17):
and you're going to make a dealof it, you should probably
include their manager, right?
Because nothing feels betterthan getting an email that says,
with my manager attached hey,Bruce, you really knocked that
out of the park.
Thank you, and the manager doesnot care.
They don't care, but the personwho the thanks is geared toward
(28:37):
absolutely does.
You can absolutely do qualitytime spent together.
I literally do it with my teamall the time.
It's achievable, it's possibleand I would encourage more of it
than not doing it, Just doinglike jam sessions, get on a
team's call, work on somethingtogether or just, you know,
(28:58):
chill.
It's achievable.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Tangible gifts.
We don't even like thatvableyeah, absolutely Tangible gifts.
We don't even like that one,like, just don't do it.
Physical touch Don't do it, youdon't need to do it Not even
possible really to do?
Yeah, not even possible.
And I mean, when you meet upfor events and things, that's
your opportunity to do the highfive, the hug, the handshake,
(29:21):
the hearty hello, whatever.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Yeah, I think that's.
You know.
It's interesting when you saidthat because actually they talk
about, you know, I think, whatthey basically, with their
surveys they figured out thatmost people in the workplace are
words of affirmation.
They want to feel appreciatedby people telling them they're
doing a good job.
But remote workers, andespecially since remote work has
grown, they've seen a shift inremote workers.
(29:46):
Their primary appreciationlanguage is shifting to quality
time and that makes sensebecause you kind of feel
isolated when you're workingfrom home and so, to your point,
like even hopping on a quickcall with them and being like
hey, by the way, you know, justwanted to say I really
appreciate you.
You know, doing what you did onthe, on the slide deck, in the
code, whatever it is, you know,I think they just appreciate you
(30:07):
spending the time with them todo that more than the actual
words themselves, which Ithought was really interesting
and true.
You know it's cool when youjust get someone to pop in and
be like hey, you want to justtalk for a few Like.
That means a lot to the remoteworker.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
It really does.
And acts of service was the oneI forgot.
And I think, if anything, actsof service is even easier to do
in the remote world than it isin the physical.
Yeah, because everything isalready digitized.
So, hey, I'm going to go grabthis JIRA ticket and I literally
did this, right Like I knew oneof my peers.
He's planning for a launchthat's coming up in the next
(30:43):
couple of weeks.
I'm doing a launch in a month.
So he had this ticket and wewere talking about it during one
of our scrums.
He said I just don't know if Ihave time for this and I said,
hey, buddy, I got you, give methat ticket, I'll do it.
He's like thank you so much.
That means so much to me.
It's like, yeah, no, I got you,I know what to do, I know how
to get this done.
I just did it.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Just did it.
That's incredible.
I love it.
You really are living thevalues.
I live the values.
I am digging it A positiveplace to work your corporate
transformation.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Well, maybe I'm a positive person to work with.
I don't know if I'd go so faras to say, uh, my little light
has radiated to others, but I'mdoing the best.
I'm doing the best I can.
It'll get there or it won't,but that's totally fine yeah, I
know you gotta do I mean back tothe call to action, the
beginning of the episode.
You've got to be the change youwant to see in the world,
because no one else is going todo it for you.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
100 I'm right there with you.
All right hard point numberthree as a manager especially, I
think this one's important.
If you're always that personthat is out, you know, giving
high fives, telling everyonethey're great, unfortunately
that diminishes the value toother people, because if I'm
(31:59):
always going around high-fivingBruce and telling everyone
they're doing awesome and justspreading it with everybody,
that primary appreciationlanguage, even if it's words of
affirmation for you, getsdiminished unfortunately.
And so I think they talk a lotabout.
If you have someone who reallyleans into your appreciation
language and they're doing it24-7, it loses the value and
(32:19):
often you lean into yoursecondary appreciation language
instead as becoming the primarywith that person, which actually
that was a really interestingway to look at it, because it's
like you've got a primary,you've got a secondary, and if
the person who's trying to showyou appreciation is always doing
your primary, which in thebeginning probably sounds great,
over time you're like, okay,that one doesn't mean as much to
(32:41):
me anymore because Bruce justalways tells me I'm doing a good
job.
Now I want him to actually dosomething for me, like acts of
service or help me with a task.
Instead I throw up a counter.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
I'm going to throw up a counter.
Throw it up, I'm ready.
If you thank someone for doingsomething that requires thanks,
if you use an act ofappreciation for them doing
something that it requiresappreciation but you don't do it
(33:11):
consistently, that can actuallycause mental strain because
they're gonna be like why didn't, why didn't br Bruce appreciate
this thing that I did when?
I worked so much harder on thisthan this.
I try and go out of my way tobe consistent.
So, like I have my standard andif I mean maybe I am over
(33:34):
rotating on you know words ofappreciation or or quality time
or you know acts of service, butI would rather be consistent
and not have someone have likemental anguish over well, why,
what did I do differently thistime?
That wasn't praiseworthy,because I see it happen, right,
it happens with me, like someonewill thank me for the most
(33:56):
stupid, asinine thing, like whydid I get a shout out for that?
But it's like I'm.
I'm literally busting my humpover here trying to do this
monumental thing.
Like why did I get a shout outfor that?
But it's like I'm literallybusting my hump over here trying
to do this monumental thing Igot crickets.
That wears on me.
That really wears on me.
Because then I'm like why eventry?
Right?
Like, if they're not going tonotice the work, why try?
(34:16):
And I think that's a worseposition to be in than to be
like yeah, I am the best, keepit up.
I think I agree with you onthat.
It's a worse position to be inthan to be like yeah, I am the
best, keep it up.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
I think I agree with you on that.
That's a really goodcounterpoint.
And I think the span of timethat you work with somebody like
that almost becomes a worseproblem because like then they
kind of expect a level ofquality or production from you
and as life goes or things taperor you're not working as as
(34:44):
important things as you wereprior, then I think you feel
less appreciated because you'relike wait, but I was like doing
so good and now I don't getthose thanks or praises as much
and people aren't as impressedwith the work I'm doing and like
that does wear on youemotionally and psychologically
to be like am I just like off mygame, when in reality it's
probably for a lot of thingsthat are outside your control.
(35:06):
So I think to your point, likeit's probably better to be
consistent, as long as the workis actually good and you
appreciate it, to show to theother person.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Well, you can, you can use it as a feedback
mechanism in a way, right, like,why didn't Bruce thank me for
this thing that I did?
I must not have done.
Well, maybe I should have aconversation about that.
And and you know, there'sobviously an opportunity for me
to have a conversation with thatperson and say, hey, just
noticed, on that last thing youdid, there's a little bit of
drop in quality and the overalltone.
(35:35):
Let's see if we can, you know,focus on it.
But, like, when they get itback to where it needs to be,
you better believe I'm thankingthem again.
So they know like, oh, okay,I'm back in the groove, I'm back
in the swing.
Like, you can use it as adevice, like a check-in device.
I think this is not the point ofappreciation, but I think, like
the feedback engine sucks inmost corporate places and
(35:57):
appreciation is a form offeedback in a way, because it's
basically saying you did good.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Thank you Absolutely.
I think consistency is the wayto do it.
I think you're right, like I'drather someone be consistent in
sharing praise, even if thelevel or the importance of the
work is less.
You shouldn't just be like ohyeah, bruce always crushes, I'm
not like I'm not going to saythanks again.
It's like no, you should stillsay thanks because Bruce is
(36:22):
doing a great job and you know,getting rid of that will make
someone have self-doubt and feellike their work is diminished
or feel like they're missing themark, when in reality you're
just like no, I've done all thetime.
I don't want to overuse it.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
I think consistency is way better than the opposite.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
I'm with you, I agree .
All right, I've got two morehard ones for you.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
All right.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Are you ready?
I am.
Are appreciation languagesheavily skewed based on type of
job or compensation, like onceyou hit a certain compensation
mark or you work in a certainmaybe like C-suite level or a
certain type of job?
Speaker 1 (37:02):
Yes, I've been.
I was told yeah, I was toldlike as soon as you get to
management you kiss appreciation, goodbye.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Yeah.
And you're focused on yourteams.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Yeah, and that's been true for me.
It's been very true for me, andit's probably had a resulting
impact on why we started thepodcast the way we did.
Uh, you know well.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
it is interesting too because you think about
fulfillment from the work.
We spent a lot of time workinglike you shouldn't work and do
something that fulfills you.
And as you go into management,your individual contributions
and the praise you used toreceive and the appreciation you
used to receive kind of has togo away, and you have to.
You have to get the fulfillmentfrom your team doing a good job
(37:50):
, regardless of the appreciationyou're receiving.
It's like your team gettingthat recognition is actually
more important than you gettingthe recognition because it shows
you're a good leader, andsomeone kind of coached me on
that as I was kind of goingthrough that transition.
But, to your point, like I didgo through that chasm of you
know probably took maybe a yearand a half two years to like
really try to feel good aboutthat and like I am so proud of
(38:12):
my team that fulfills me insteadof someone coming and telling
me that I'm doing incrediblework.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Okay, counter me, that's garbage and and you know
what.
That's probably why so manyupper execs suck, because
they've given up on receivingany kind of feedback, both
positive and negative, thatthey're in their headspace of oh
(38:38):
, my team, my team's doing great, I'm doing great.
No, no, you know what?
Like, just think about this.
Thought experiment time, right,not you.
Think about your boss's, boss's, boss.
If they had the appreciationframework set up where, when
they executed really well onsomething that you know, they're
(39:02):
the people underneath them, hey, bosses, bosses, boss.
Thanks Thanks so much forrunning this project.
Like, I feel like yourleadership really helped us get
it there.
You did a great job.
If they didn't get that andthey were used to it, that's an
immediate indicator of like, hey, you're not leading the way you
need to lead.
But because we don't give it,positively or negatively, they
(39:22):
get nothing and what ends uphappening is they start getting
this like megalom, megalomaniac.
Well, if I'm, if I'm judged onmy team's performance, my team
is always doing good, so I mustbe good as well.
Like, that's such a bad way tothink about things and I've
never thought about that untilyou said it right now, because
I've been fed the same slop, theexact same slop Like this just
(39:44):
creates a sort of a narcissisticfeedback loop in our head where
we assume we're doing goodbecause our team's doing good.
That could absolutely not betrue.
And many times it's not.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Yeah, that's a really good point and I think you
mentioned something too and youkind of said it.
But just to maybe say itanother way, I think you
mentioned something too and youkind of said it, but just to
maybe say it another way, Ithink it goes up and down, like,
as you're talking to yourleader, you have to be willing
to share that feedback.
I had a mid-year reviewrecently and at the end of it I
was like hey, I just want to saythank you so much for the
feedback.
You know positive and negative.
(40:16):
You know I understand thethings I need to work on.
I understand how I'm going tokeep on progressing and I just
wanted to say thank you for yourleadership.
You know the hard conversationsthat we do have helped me become
better and I appreciate yourleadership and guidance through
this and I know that means a lotto them.
But I think they're so.
I think it was unexpected,because they just don't expect
it.
Like it's so out of the bluewhen that happens, because
(40:36):
they're so used to just likedrive, drive, drive team does
the work.
I don't need appreciation, I'mthe boss and like I think it.
It just caught them off guardbecause they're like wait, thank
you, like that was actuallyreally really cool, like we had
a very human moment.
So it's interesting,interesting perspective on that
and if?
Speaker 1 (40:53):
if that person got used to being thanked and then
suddenly stopped getting thankedand they weren't getting
thanked, they'd probably be likewhat's going on?
Like I probably need to checkin and see, like, am I not doing
everything I need to be doingfor my team to make sure that
they're feeling that I'm givingthem what they need?
Speaker 2 (41:10):
Absolutely, I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
I think they get blind, especially when you're at
the top and you have no onegiving you that feedback ever.
I think it changes how you areand how you look at the work and
the work your team's doing andappreciation in general where
you might not, you might noteven appreciate others, because
you never get it either.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
Yep, I think that's.
I think that's a big part ofthe problem, right?
Like?
Ceos are based on companyperformance, not employee
performance, and they get bigbonuses when the company
performs well.
So they're they're motivated tonot play nicely with the
employee, which creates aculture of I got to get mine and
I don't care about anythingelse as long as I'm getting my
(41:52):
number.
Yeah, that's it, that's allthat matters.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Everybody's just resources.
We're not resources, we'repeople resources, we're resource
planning.
All we got to do is hit ournumber Human.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
We're people, we're resources, we're resource
planning.
All we got to do is hit ournumber.
Human resources, human freakingresources yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Honestly, it's so messed up that that's the name
of the department.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
I didn't realize we were humans.
I needed you to tell me that Iforgot.
I thought we were cogs in amachine.
I'm so glad you reminded methat we're humans.
Let's get to the next one.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
All right, we got to do one last one, one last big
one.
What if you actually don'tappreciate your team members?
What do you do?
You don't appreciate your teammembers we're supposed to show
appreciation, bruce, that's Idon't appreciate that that's a
(42:52):
coaching opportunity, right?
Speaker 1 (42:53):
I mean, that's that's more reflection on you than
them.
Again, like I, I feel like thisthis is the problem, right?
Like this is a reflection onthe team leader, not the team
members.
If you one, you hired them two,it's your job to coach them and
shepherd them towards success.
Find ways, give them feedbackearly, give it often If they're
(43:16):
not doing something well, likemaybe it's time for coaching.
If they continue to dosomething well, maybe it's time
for you know you're not a goodfit for this role.
Let's see if we can find youanother fit in the company.
If that's not a case, then it'stime to say goodbye.
But, like, if you're notappreciating them, then you're
not doing the work to make surethey're successful, not the
other way around.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
You know, this is why I love having you as a podcast
partner, because you're just sosmart.
That's exactly the first thingit says.
It talks about this wholechapter and it basically says
first step sort out your ownissues.
Spot on.
It's like, yeah, you'reprobably doing something or
looking at this wrong.
(43:58):
You know you might be holdingtoo high of expectations for
your team, where they'reactually doing really well, but
you're not seeing what everybodyelse does around them and it's
skewing your perspective becauseyour ego is in the way or you
think your work is of suchhigher quality opportunity
(44:23):
management opportunity.
You should understand whatthey're working on and if you
don't feel like they're meetingtheir objectives, you should be
asking questions and trying tofigure out hey, what are you
working on?
What priorities are getting inyour way?
Why is it taking so long to getthis thing done?
And they're like, oh shoot, Ididn't realize you were doing
500 other things, like wateringthe plants every morning when
you come to the office, so theyaren't dead.
I didn't realize you did thatuntil they leave and all your
plants are dead.
You're like who was wateringthe plants?
Speaker 1 (44:46):
I just, every day there's a creeping moment in my
growing anxiety that I thinkabout any single one of my
teammates leaving in the processit would take to rehire for
that role and to be able to dowhat they do and to onboard them
and train them.
(45:07):
And every single day, my, my, mywatch starts to warn me about
my heart rate and I just I can'tand it's, it's honestly, one of
my biggest concerns.
It's, it's why I'm in thisstate that the back to the
inshinification right.
Like you, you have to be ableto appreciate what is good that
(45:29):
you have in your life, becauseit is a fleeting resource, right
?
And if those people leave and Ican't show them the kind of
appreciation they need to keepthem on, who's going to do that
work?
Cause I can't show them thekind of appreciation they need
to keep them on, who's going todo that work?
Because I can't do it, yeah,and that terrifies me Because I
(45:51):
don't know if I have everythingthat I need that the company
needs to show them the kind ofappreciation they want to be
appreciated for.
Yeah, it's just an existentialcrisis I deal with it is.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
But every, every day, you bring up such a valid point
and like that's why anybody whosays like well, I don't
appreciate people around me,it's like they gotta you gotta
look around, especially if youmanage people and you don't
appreciate people on your ownteam, that is a you problem.
It's a you problem, it's not athem problem.
You have to manage that.
That is a you problem.
It's a you problem.
It's not a them problem.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
You have to manage that.
There are people that I workwith that do their job terribly
and I still appreciate thembecause I would rather they had
their job than I did.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
Yeah, agreed, it's like someone has to shovel the
poop every day.
Yeah, and yes, they do skidmarks on every hallway.
Speaker 1 (46:40):
they shovel.
But you know, what's worse thanskid marks Is turds on the
ground, just big old, juicy,ripe turds.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
Yep Steaming the office shitter that comes in and
just on his last day he justpoops.
I'm saying he, I don't knowthat it was a he.
We know it's a he.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
Let's be real.
He just had $17 of CortinaSupremes and he's come in with a
vengeance.
He didn't opt in for the firesauce no, he's not living in
2007.
He got the Diablo sauce, whichis a one way ticket to diarrhea
town right out of them, right inthe middle of the hallway.
(47:23):
It's like a proton pack fromGhostbusters.
The positron wand is blasting.
That hallway is never going tobe the same shade again.
It doesn't matter how manyshovels you use, you can't paint
over that.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
You get grease on like a paver or on something,
and now you're like well, theonly way to solve this is more
grease everywhere.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
That's what he has to do.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
He has to come in and finish the job.
Finish the job.
Acts of service.
Acts of service.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
You suddenly think to yourself wait a second, maybe I
should appreciate.
I should appreciate thisindividual For the service
they're providing me.
I didn't realize we needed thisbefore, and now we do, and I
should probably thank them fortheir service.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
That's how you change your perspective, right there?
Well, one last one.
Okay, what if they irritate youfor personality reasons?
They talk too much, they laughtoo much, they chew with their
mouth open.
What if you're just like,listen, their work's great, but,
holy cow, they chew like ahorse and you just can't stand
(48:35):
being around them because theyalways got to chew like a horse.
Can you still appreciate them?
Can you look past?
The personality issues.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
Absolutely you can and in fact, like I'm not, this,
this whole thing.
You're not marrying the person,you're not even asking them out
to bowl with you.
This is an opportunity for youto build a small relationship to
better the workplace make, makeyour life a little bit better,
make their life a little bitbetter.
And if they annoy the crap outof you, that's fine.
Just deal with them.
When you deal with them andthen separate.
(49:12):
You don't need to spend yourlife with them, even if they're
on your team, even if your team,your direct reports, annoy the
ever-loving hell out of you.
If they're doing a good job,show appreciation, set distance,
be reasonable, right, like I'mnot going to set hour-long
one-on-ones every week or justspend a lot of time with this
person.
(49:32):
Just I'm gonna do 15 minutes,right, like I do what I need to
do to get the job done and getchecked in.
And then I mean I think thebiggest thing is you'll see this
with like people who areactively on like opposite ends
of the political spectrum.
It's like I don't want to be ina room with this person because
they are the opposite of me andwe clash on everything.
You can still find appreciationin what the value they bring to
(49:55):
the company is and you can showthem that and I'm not saying
you have to go to Benihana withthem on the corporate retreat.
You can sit at the other sideof the table, you can excuse
yourself but like absolutelystill appreciate that person.
Speaker 2 (50:08):
I agree.
Yeah, it's about.
I think you have to look pastsome of those things, avoid some
of the situations, but alsocreate the constraints to not
step into those things.
If it's like politicalconversations they're always
doing that you can just be likehey, if you don't mind.
You know I really appreciateand value our workplace
(50:28):
relationship.
Some of our political viewsaren't always one-to-one, you
know.
I'd love if we could just talkabout work, because I really
love working with you and, likeyou, can, you can say it in a
way that is still respectful andyou're just setting a boundary.
Speaker 1 (50:41):
You're drawing a line to say let's just not cross
that line, it's not worth it,and I don't need to be
expressing my political viewsand getting frustrated with you
about something that we don'tagree on because it's not
relevant to the workplace and soI think if they respond with
anything other than cooperation,like if there's an indignance,
if there's insubordination thenit's a time for you to consider
(51:02):
like, okay, well, maybe I needto move this person to a
different team, maybe we need tohave an HR intervention here.
But there are ways to deal withthis problem beyond not showing
appreciation for the work.
Speaker 2 (51:14):
A hundred percent.
And also, if you're managingyour team, give them frameworks
that they can use so you canavoid those annoying things.
Like you have an hour longone-on-one to your point,
constrain the time to say, hey,I got a short hour one-on-one,
like, let's just keep it allbusiness.
Like you can do things likethat or you know I've had a
schedule.
Speaker 1 (51:37):
Yeah, Create a schedule, create an agenda First
, first part of one-on-one allabout.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
Yeah, I've had team members that vent the whole time
and I give them frameworks.
Now I'm like, hey, listen, myjob is to help you through your
hurdles and I love talking withyou, but I also got a lot going
on.
So I need you to come with mewith a clear problem, three
recommendations of things wecould do, or three solutions to
solve your problem that youthought of, and then your
recommendation, and then I canhelp coach you.
(52:02):
You know, I can help, give youfeedback and I can be really
direct and we can progressrather than just venting the
whole time.
And I think people doappreciate that.
I think some people will stillwant that quality time.
So you have to be conscious ofthat, but still make it
productive and draw thoseboundaries so you can, you know,
be considerate of being able toappreciate them and not letting
those personality traits, youknow, override how you feel
(52:22):
about them.
Speaker 1 (52:23):
I think it's also worth mentioning you don't need
to be everything to everyone,right?
Maybe?
Maybe they're looking forsomething in you that they can
find in a coworker that is somuch more suited.
You guys can go.
You guys can go have your weirdArby's meal and talk about your
, your strange political beliefs, and you'll have a great time.
(52:43):
It's going to be so much betterthan if I was there.
Go enjoy yourself, right, likeyou can separate, segment and
even offer.
You know, oh yeah, that thatyou know who.
You know who loves underwaterskiing.
Jeffrey loves it.
You should talk to him about it.
Speaker 2 (52:59):
Yeah, why don't all three of us go to lunch next
week?
And then, right when you'reabout to go to lunch, I say oh
sorry guys, I gotta bow out, butyou two, you two should still
go and talk, or go facilitatethe first conversation and then
dip.
Speaker 1 (53:12):
You won't ever need to go again.
I guarantee you, jeffrey andjim and I, they're gonna get
along just great.
Speaker 2 (53:17):
I love it.
Great tip.
This has been a really funseries.
Speaker 1 (53:22):
It has.
I wait for the future, becausewe're never going to do
something like this again.
Speaker 2 (53:26):
Yeah, I know Right.
I mean maybe maybe once everyfive years we surprise our
listeners and actually dosomething that is consistent and
goes on for more than anepisode or two.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
I mean, that'd be great.
I would love to do that.
Speaker 2 (53:37):
We'll see if they appreciate it.
If they appreciate it, yeahsure.
Speaker 1 (53:41):
If you don't no have.
I haven't heard any words ofappreciation I'm not getting any
acts of service.
Speaker 2 (53:49):
I say that.
And then we got a message, adirect message, from somebody
while we were having thisdiscussion.
So maybe they do appreciate us.
They're trying to spend qualitytime with us maybe, maybe all
right, let me leave you withthis.
Okay, I think you left a greatwith it with.
(54:12):
A great point is like one setthe proper expectations for
yourself.
You can't be everything foreveryone, like.
You've got to be thoughtful.
You have to be considerate ofyour time and how you show
appreciation to others and do itwhere your head and your heart
are in the right place.
Don't just do it because youfeel like you're obligated to.
Like man, I hate this personbut I'm going to go tell them
(54:33):
how awesome they are because itwill feel disingenuous.
So try to figure out what istheir appreciation language.
Don't ask them directly.
Or maybe do ask them directlyin a respectful manner.
Observe what they do and whatthey do for others and how they
kind of express appreciation,you know.
Listen to their complaints andtry to understand.
You know, if they keep on saying, well, nobody has time for me
(54:53):
and I'm not getting the focus,attention to understand this,
like maybe it's quality timethat you need to lean into for
this person, because thenthey'll feel more appreciated,
and just explore how they'reencouraged.
Just ask them like hey, youknow, I noticed after that
meeting.
You know you had a big smile onyour face when we all kind of
clapped for you at the end Is,you know, words of affirmation
and you know, in a publicsetting is that really how you
(55:13):
kind of feel, appreciated fordoing great work, and you can
ask those types of questions andthen you can lean into that to
help them.
So this whole series has beengreat and I think you know, like
you said, if we can carry thisinto our workplaces, not only
will our teams and the peoplearound us feel more appreciated,
but hopefully we're making thecorporate world a little bit of
a better place.
Speaker 1 (55:32):
I couldn't agree more .
I think it's such a positivenote to end this on because, if
not for us, do it for you andyou will feel better for it.
Truly, I feel better when I doit and it's I.
I'll even challenge you, clark,you know.
You said you know if youabsolutely hate the person, you
(55:52):
don't have to go out of your way.
I say, do I say if you hate theperson but they did good work,
let them know.
Like, truly, I've done it.
Speaker 2 (56:02):
it feels good, yeah, it feels good personality stuff
aside, put your personalfeelings aside.
You can do it, evaluate thework and if it is truly good, if
they helped you in some way,even though you hated every
second of it, you should do it,I agree you should do it.
Speaker 1 (56:15):
You should absolutely do it.
Well, that's it, that's it.
That's all we got.
That's the last episode ofcorporate strategy.
The podcast could have been anemail time to burn this book.
Season finale.
Burn it.
Hold on to that.
Actually, you, you might needthat for heat, uh, when the dark
times come oh true, yeah,actually good point yeah yeah,
(56:37):
that's good burning material.
So, yeah, use that.
Uh, we're gonna have, we'regonna have to schedule.
We have a guest episode thatwe're going to have to schedule.
We have a guest episode that weneed to schedule and get on the
books in the future.
So, if you're done withappreciation, you were done
before we started.
Guess what?
We're getting back to regularcorporate strategy.
Podcast is going to be in anemail very soon.
If, for whatever reason, you'renot in the Discord you should
(56:59):
be you can do that by clickingon the show notes, going to the
link tree in the bottom of thenotes.
Join our Discord.
It's free, it's safe, it's fun,it's easy, it's a good
environment.
The most amazing thing about it, if I can shout out like, yeah,
we don't have the most activecommunity ever, but we have no
trolls.
There's never been any likeweird off color material that's
come in there.
(57:19):
It's a good group of people, sodon't feel like you are joining
a bunch of weirdos.
It is all professionally mindedpeople who just want to do
better.
Um, so shout outs to ourdiscord.
We have a store.
You could buy a shirt on withour logo on it, if that that
motivates you and we also.
Uh, you could give us somemoney, because this, this is
(57:39):
completely funded by me and, uh,if you want to, if you want to
pay me for the podcast that I'verun for the last God knows how
many years, uh, you can do that.
You can just click the buy us acoffee button and give me a
dollar and that will offset thethousands that I've lost.
I think that's, it is.
Uh, anything else?
Speaker 2 (57:57):
Clark.
Uh, yeah, I've got two wordsfor you that I wrote down and I
hope you remember what they are.
Speaker 1 (58:06):
Corn slash chickpea, oh no.
Speaker 2 (58:08):
I wrote it down, oh no and I hope you remember,
because I said I'd write it down.
It's on my notepad, it's rightin front of me.
It says corn slash chickpea.
No, you know what I think Iknow what it is I told you to
write that down.
Speaker 1 (58:20):
Should I tell you?
Should I tell you no, I knowwhy Do you remember?
See, there was a moment duringthis pod when you could have
said corn slash chickpea and Icould have just smoothly
transitioned into this.
And now at the end, at the 59thminute, still, how do you?
Speaker 2 (58:43):
even think of this.
Speaker 1 (58:44):
I don't even remember why we were talking about this.
It was after the last pod,right, it was after a pod.
Speaker 2 (58:52):
It was during.
I'm pretty sure.
We had a brief discussionduring the last one about corn
or something, and then it turnedinto corn and chickpea.
Speaker 1 (59:03):
Yeah, do you know, do you know?
Speaker 2 (59:12):
You haven't even said anything.
I'm crying.
I'm crying.
This was when we canceled theshow clark, how often do you eat
corn?
Speaker 1 (59:30):
no, I actually love corn, maybe so, okay, you love
corn once a month, once a month,have you noticed in, in, in the
exit process, in the exitinterview of that corn, in the
exit process, in the exitinterview of that corn, in the
exit interview of the corn, thatit makes a reappearance as if
(59:51):
nothing had changed at all?
Speaker 2 (59:56):
I try not to observe you, should I mean it's healthy.
Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
It is healthy to examine the human waste to make
sure you know your bowels arenormal, your lower intestine is
performing the way it should be.
So I do recommend, as someonewho suffers with IBS, to
evaluate your exit.
Fun fact about corn.
Did you know the body can'tdigest the shell?
Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
I don't know, just the shell.
Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
They always tell me there's no nutrient value from
corn.
Speaker 2 (01:00:30):
I think that's a lie, though right, it is a lie, that
is a lie.
Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
In fact, the reason why you're seeing it in your
waist is because the shellitself, the little husk of the
kernel, cannot be digested.
Interesting, but the inside isso, those little corn nuggets
that show up in your waist.
They're actually shit nuggetswrapped in corn.
Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
What the hell Wild, wild.
Speaker 1 (01:00:59):
Wild Mm-hmm Well.
Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
I would say shitification is happening all
around us.
Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
And now it's happening all around us
literally inside of us fromstart to finish.
I mean, what a better way tothink about just the way we're
going than starting off as abeautiful piece of yellow,
golden delicious corn and comingout the other side absolutely
full of shit.
Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
That's a way to end it right there.
I think so.
Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
Full circle.
That's the final episode ofCorporate Strategy y'all.
I hope you really enjoyed thispodcast.
Just in general, I reallyenjoyed doing it with you, clark
.
It's been a great time.
It's been a great run.
Speaker 2 (01:01:43):
It's been a great run .
We'll talk again at some point.
Well, thank you, I appreciatedthat ending.
Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
I needed that?
Yeah, I think so.
I think it's a good note to endit on.
Hey, if you can't do anything,do yourself.
I'm Bruce and I'm Clark andyou're on mute.
We'll see you next week.
Eat some corn, chew it up.
Say it again All you have in this life is this
podcast.
It'll never leave you, it'llnever forsake you, it'll never
do you wrong.
It'll just be here for you Likea solid foundation, just to
return to you whenever you wantto feel at home, whenever you
want to look at Clarkie boy,he'll be here for you.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
You know what I want to return to?
I want to go, I want to, I wantto go, I want to, I want to go
back.
I want to go back in time tothe time when Taco Bell uh, the
primary colors were pastel, blueand purple and white.
Yeah, I want to live there, Iwant to stay there and I never
want to leave that era.
(00:44):
There's no blu-ray, there'sonly dvd, and they're dirt cheap
.
There's no netflix, there'sblockbuster.
Yeah, there's movie gallerythey're so nice there's no
Bitcoin or stupid.
(01:07):
I'm not even going to call itartificial intelligence, because
it's not, and I'm sick andtired of us calling it that
Because we're so freakingpathetic as a species we can't
even invent real AI.
We create freaking chatbotgirlfriends that code up the
worst secured programs on theplanet.
No, I want to go back.
I want to go back to Taco Bell.
(01:29):
I want the walls to be pastel,blue, purple and white.
I want a Chalupa.
I want a Crunchwrap Supreme,and it's only going to cost me
99 cents.
Now, each of those thingsindividually is 99 cents, but
guess what?
(01:49):
For $7, I'm not going to eatfor a week.
I want to go back.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
You're not going to want to eat for a week.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
I'm not going to want to eat for a week.
That's the satisfaction of itall.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Satisfaction is a bold word for Taco Bell.
Satisfaction is a bold word forTaco Bell.
I can tell.
I can tell you're going throughsomething right now.
I think.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
I should just let you , let you go.
Do you ever think about the factthat, literally you know five,
10 years before we started work,you could literally get by in
your day just by like puttingsome numbers in a spreadsheet
and hitting save and then takingthat spreadsheet, and like
(02:33):
putting it on a disc and thenputting that disc in someone
else's computer and you've doneyour job.
But, like now, everything we dois instantaneous.
Oh, that spreadsheet's inOneDrive.
It's not syncing.
It's not syncing.
It's not syncing.
I needed this five seconds ago.
Why isn't it syncing?
Where's your number?
Why isn't it there?
Oh, it's in the other OneDrive.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
It's in the other spreadsheet, it's over there,
that's not the one you sent me.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
That's not the one everyone has access to.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
I know it's crazy that we have this awesome
version control and all of uscan work collaboratively on the
same document, but you didn'tsave v12 underscore final and
you were supposed to say v12underscore final.
Why didn't you save it?
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Oh, oh.
I'm looking at the version.
History Turns out I did put thenumbers in there.
You dingbat, Someone deleted it.
Oh, why do they have access tothis?
They're not even in ourorganization.
What are they doing in here?
Why are they doing this?
Why am I having to do that?
Why am I having to performforensic detective work on a
(03:33):
budget spreadsheet I didn't know?
You worked at a fine.
I want to go back to Taco Bell.
I want the walls to be pink andblue and white pastel.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
You know what I miss?
When the dollar menu was adollar and also when you could
play Super Mario Sunshine inyour local McDonald's.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Remember those days.
I remember the days when youcould play Super Mario 64 in the
McDonald's they have the littlecontrollers and the little
bungee thing.
You just they had it all tapedtogether.
Yeah, they actually got a goodplastic bubble.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Like you got a toy in your kid's mill and it was good
yeah it was good.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
So so you know people listening will.
They will say they'll be like,oh, y'all are just nostalgic.
No, there's actually a word forthis and it's true, and it's
real, it's happening,unfortunately it's.
It's a word that's not safe forlittle ears, so if you're under
18, please stop listening, okay, thanks.
Uh, it's calledinshittification and it's a real
(04:40):
thing and it it's happeningeverywhere, to everything, all
around us, all at once, at everymoment of the day.
Literally everything has beenin shitified and has gotten
worse.
Isn't that great?
And it costs more money too.
And for some reason I'msupposed to be happy and
satisfied and thrilled with myexistence, knowing that tomorrow
(05:05):
is going to be shittier thantoday.
Isn't that fantastic.
Isn't this a great path thatwe're on?
Clark?
Speaker 2 (05:14):
I'm worried about you .
Speaker 1 (05:16):
You should be worried about the planet.
We are on a roller coaster to apoint where, five years from
now, like literally, you're justgoing to be watching AI slop
and that's going to be yourentertainment.
It's going to be trying tofigure out.
Not, you're not going to bewatching reruns of the Office.
You're going to be watchingwhat AI thinks the Office is and
it's going to be like hi, I'mJim, I'm Pem.
(05:38):
Oh, let's mix our facestogether.
Hmm, this is what you're, thisis what we're careening towards,
because we can't pay people tobe creative anymore.
We let robots do it for us.
We can't afford to go to TacoBell because the freaking
Crunchwrap Supreme costs $7.
Now we can't have it both ways.
(06:02):
Like everything can't be shittyand simultaneously expensive.
It's not normal.
It used to be.
If you wanted the crap, you'dgo to the dollar store and you
knew you were getting crap, butit only cost a dollar.
Now the crap costs $7.
I could literally go to a nicerestaurant and spend the same
(06:25):
amount of money that I wouldspend at McDonald's if I got a
meal for me and my spouse.
We're careening towards it.
Clark, third worldification ofthe life that I once knew and
loved.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
You know, I was thinking about that.
The spreadsheet is justupdating itself now.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Oh, I don't know why those cells have weird
characters in them that aren'treadable to humans.
I didn't do it.
If I look at the versionhistory, no one did it.
Apparently it just appearedthere, but it's my problem to
fix now.
Everything sucks, everythingsucks.
Name me one thing that doesn'tsuck, and don't you dare say
(07:07):
this podcast.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
You know I was going to go right there.
Don't you dare, hey, don't youdare say this podcast, craig
does not suck.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
You know I'm giving it.
Craig is like the outlier inall of this A free utility that
actively works and has continuedto work for over.
I mean, we've been on podcastmode for four or five years now
and the fact that Craig stillworks I mean miracles do happen.
(07:41):
Craig is proof of that.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
But philosophically he's also not getting any better
.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
No he never will.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
At any point he could shift into the enchitification
curve.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
That is exactly what I'm saying.
That's exactly what I'm sayingthere is no hope of things
getting better.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
You know, I was going to say did insurification start
since the dawn of time?
But then I thought about it no,oh, it had to be incredible
through the IndustrialRevolution and everything like
that.
And then it's like when was theturning point?
What was the turning point?
Speaker 1 (08:19):
society that got us here.
It's never been more clear thanit is when you look at
automobiles.
That is the perfect curve ofinshittification in real life,
because you think about justthink about the 1980s, right,
like you think about the cars ofthe 80s those boxy designs,
yeah, but those cars still runtoday Now, yes, the engines do
(08:44):
wear out and yes, the parts dowear out, but it was not
unfathomable.
I remember my parents had a1985 Honda Civic that they drove
into the 2000s.
Thing had like 200,000 miles onit.
Good luck my 2007 Honda Civic.
The engine melted at year 10.
It straight up melted on themiddle of the highway.
(09:06):
I wasn't going 100 miles anhour, I was literally going 70.
And I noticed the little heatindex in my car.
It's like, hey, your engine'soverheating.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
By the way.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
I had to coast in neutral to get home and then it
never started again because itactually melted.
2007 Honda Civic that was stillgood.
That was still in the goldenera of taco bell.
Look at the cars today.
Do you know how many times my2024 honda crv has been recalled
in the last year?
Now, granted, some of this canbe attributed to.
(09:42):
Well, we've got better, we'vegot better analytics, we've got
better insights, we've gotbetter knowledge and all of
these things.
But is it a good car?
Is this car gonna last me likethat?
That 1985 honda it was a hondaaccord.
It lasted 20 years.
Like I don't think it's goingto, it's all going to die.
(10:06):
And it costs me.
Do you know how much more itcosts for this stupid car than
it costs for that Accord?
It's real.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
You can see it, I don't disagree with you.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Look at the airlines.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Yeah, airlines, prime example.
Also my AC unit, which is justdoing a job this time of year
where we live.
It literally is still my ACunit.
It's the original one from thehouse.
It was built in 84.
So it's like an 84 unit andthat thing is still pumping.
I know many people who just gotnew units last year crapping
(10:40):
out on them and every singletime I call up old Hank.
He doesn't have a website.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
He gets cashed hank, he doesn't have a website.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
He gets.
No, he doesn't have a website,no website.
I had to call him and he's likecan I be there in 10 minutes?
I'm like, yeah, absolutely,please you better no paperwork,
nothing.
He's like now I get the parts,yeah, just you know, pay me in
cash.
It's cool, and he just fixed it, went on his way.
He's like keep that thingforever, like, we'll do, we'll
do, we'll do.
Mr Hank, that was my waterheater.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
I have a water heater from literally had it from the
day the house was built, I thinkin 2000 and 2009,.
My house was built, waterheater just lasted.
The problem was, is it's notenergy efficient?
So like it was to the pointthat it's like well, we should
probably replace our waterheater because it's not energy
efficient at all.
Things terrible for theenvironment, but these things
they're like well, you know,your new one's only going to
(11:32):
last five years.
It's like well what's worse?
Having something that's energyefficient that lasts forever, or
having to replace somethingevery five years giant, freaking
water heater you're going tothrow away and add to the waste
Like I can't find any singleobject that I'm surrounded by
that hasn't been enshitified insome way, shape or form.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Fair.
So yeah, I'm doing great.
Welcome back to CorporateStrategy Podcast.
It's going to be an email.
I'm Bruce and I can't wait totalk about appreciation.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Who are you?
Oh me, I'm Bruce, and I can'twait to talk about appreciation.
Who are you?
Oh me, I'm little old Clark.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Oh hey little old Clark.
Little old Clark, who lived ina shoe, had so many children,
didn't know what to do.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
And I know him and you do too.
Little old Clark that lived ina shoe.
How are we not millionaires onthis podcast?
This is gold.
You know what's not and shouldhave bought this podcast and I
stand by it.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
I think the mere fact that we have managed to
continue to do this for fiveyears and set time aside in our
week and we haven't I mean, wedo use ai for the show notes,
but who gives a crap?
No one reads those thingsanyway like I would say, you
know, it's a miracle that we'vemaintained and that we haven't
(12:57):
like just gone I mean, ifanything, the quality has only
improved over time I would saythe appreciation series is truly
one of the pinnacles ofresearch, reporting,
investigative analysis onsomething, discussion.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
The self-reflection on what we're doing in our
current jobs, making thecorporate world a better place.
This is the opposite.
This is it.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
If you've listened to the last five episodes and
you've practiced any of this, Ipromise you you have made your
workplace a better place.
I have done it and I have mademy workplace a better place and
people have noticed.
They literally said, hey,thanks for asking, Thanks for
doing this, Like if you're notdoing it.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
what are you doing Exactly?
Why are you listening to thisif you're not going to do any of
it?
Speaker 1 (13:42):
My call to action to our listeners is you know you
are surrounded by andshitification.
We all are, and we can't escapeit.
And then eventually we'll killall of us.
That's a guarantee.
Maybe not in our lifetime, butcertainly in the next hundred
years.
We are all absolutely screwed,but you can be part of the
resistance.
(14:02):
You can.
You can stand up and say, no,I'm mad as hell, I'm not going
to take it anymore, and you canput quality out there.
You can do the human thing, dothe human work, and do it with
quality, and do it with a smileand know that you went down
swinging and that's why I needtherapy.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
You know what I feel like.
You don't feel appreciated bythe world.
I would love if people couldshow you a little appreciation,
make you feel appreciated inthis world.
He's keeled over.
(14:49):
He's crying, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
I can't compose myself right now.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
I'm sweating, I'm crying at this point.
I don't know what the liquidsare, but they're going down my
face.
I shouldn't say this.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Who cares?
Who listens to this podcast?
I told someone today please saythank you to my teammate.
You did not.
You had to ask them.
I did.
I didn't ask them.
I told them Say hey, they'vedone a lot for you.
Tell them thank you in a publicfashion, please.
This is my, my mental state.
(15:31):
Oh, my gosh.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Orange.
That's terrible.
Yeah, you're seeing.
You're seeing red, aren't you?
Speaker 1 (15:38):
I, I see everything.
I see everything At all times.
Knowledge is a curse and aburden listen, I've got my CAC
score.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
I've got my CAC score and it ain't pretty, but I'll
tell you one thing.
My boss did something reallygreat this week.
Really somebody on my team, mymore senior manager, she did an
awesome presentation to ourchief technology officer, did an
awesome presentation, crushedit, she crushed it.
She even looked at me after shehad this glow in her eyes.
(16:12):
She's like I crushed that.
I'm like hell, yeah, youcrushed that.
And my boss comes over andshe's like, hey, that was really
really great, you did anawesome job, thank you for doing
that Left the room.
I was like this is appreciationin the workplace.
And guess what?
My employee no, no, she doesnot listen to the pod, but I
(16:34):
will express my gratitude and myappreciation.
But also, she's going on aseven day vacation, so she's
leaving on a high.
It's like listen, I justpresented to the big boss, I
crushed it.
I got the recognition from tothe big boss.
I crushed it, I got therecognition from my boss's boss.
Now I'm going on vacation.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
How good of a finish right high the number of people
going on a seven-day vacation injust my general vicinity in the
next two weeks is unfathomable.
Like just, you just added onemore to the list, but it it is
wild to me.
No one is working in the nexttwo weeks except for me.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
It's that time of year.
Obviously it's that time ofyear.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
It's been that time of year since June.
It can't always be that time ofyear.
It cannot Summer.
When does summer end?
Speaker 2 (17:21):
I know when.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
I know when summer ended.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
It's when Taco Bell painted the walls ooh died yeah,
you know what sounds greatright now if you say a flavor of
soda that's exactly what I wasgoing to say, that is turquoise
turquoise in color.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
You can get it in an icy.
Exactly what I was going to saythat is, turquoise in color,
you can get it in an Icy, and itused to cost 99 cents for a
large.
Oh, that's incredible.
That's right, we're talkingabout Mountain Dew, baja Blast.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
It was incredible.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
It definitely made your liver blue, but it was
incredible do you think thisepisode didn't just make the
liver blue?
Speaker 2 (18:18):
well, it's not due.
In general, I mean, it's one ofthe side effects.
You got to read the terms, youknow I mean diabetes, is a
positive outcome.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
That's all you get.
You're good, you're golden.
A Pepsi product, no less Ourfavorite soda brand.
On the Corporate StrategyPodcast.
Yeah we love Pepsi here, didyou not know?
Speaker 2 (18:40):
No, no, I knew that.
I just didn't know Baja Blastand Mountain Dew were a Pepsi
brand.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
This is good to know.
Pepsico yeah, it's good to know.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Good to know.
Do you think we're going totalk about anything important
here or do you think this isjust going to keep going in the
direction it's going?
Did you hear my clock?
You took too long to answer andI didn't hear your clock.
It was such a long, awkwardpause.
(19:12):
We think it's awkward for us.
I'm looking at you.
Imagine someone who doesn'thave a visual.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
They have no visual cue they're like did his mic
drop out?
And honestly, I wish it did thethe yes, I think this pod is
going somewhere.
I think all of this is goingsomewhere.
It's all adding up to somethingvery important, believe it or
not, something monumental.
You might even say, I would saythe finale of the Appreciation
(19:38):
Series.
This is it.
It's all been leading up tothis and I'm going to put our
listeners on blast.
Y'all did not respond to any ofthe call to actions we gave you
last week not a single one,because we wanted to share this
experience with you and youclearly don't want to share it
back with us.
So that's on you.
Um, I think, clark, we soldieron and we talk about, we, we
(19:58):
close, we wrap this sucker up, Iagree, like a crunchwrap
Supreme in that waxy paper.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
you know what this guy.
I want you to look at GaryChapman in the eyes.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Clark is showing me a picture of the author of the
book, gary Chapman, phd.
And, yeah, paul White.
Yeah, they, they definitelylook like their names they
absolutely do.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
You know, when some people just look like their
names, that's that like you lookat that and you're like I could
have called you gary, like ifI've never met you or seen you
in my whole entire life I'd belike gary, that's a gary do you
know, what I've ever told youwhat I look like.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
What do I look like to you?
What would you call me?
If I wasn't bruce, who wouldyou call me?
Speaker 2 (20:33):
oh, what would I give your name, chase?
Speaker 1 (20:41):
chase my goodness, I can see it wow, believe it or
not, and this is a weirdphenomenon and we are going to
move on.
I I swear, but uh, believe itor not, I've gotten andrew more
than my own name.
Oh yeah, people call me andrewmore than my real name and it
wigs me out Like I've thoughtabout.
(21:02):
Should I just change my name toAndrew, because everyone calls
me that and even when they knowmy name, my real name, they
don't do it.
It's bizarre.
You know what you look like.
I would love to call you BenjiBenji.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
I kind of like.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Benji hey Benji, what's going on?
I could be a Benji, you couldabsolutely be a Benji.
Now that?
Speaker 2 (21:23):
you said Andrew I see it.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Yeah, isn't it tragic ?
Speaker 2 (21:27):
I might call you that on accident one time.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
You probably will Like.
We've known each other forliterally half of our lives and
you're going to be like oh, dangit.
Oh, I meant Bruce, Andrew,how's it going.
Oh shoot, you'll just becomeone of the many.
That's it.
That's your destiny.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Hey, I was going to say we should do actually.
No, we should do the importantstuff.
I'm going to save this for theend.
I wrote something down.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
And I don't know if you remember.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
But I wrote it down and we're going to talk about it
at the end.
Let's do it, but we have tojump into appreciation.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
This is the finale.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
We've gone through all five appreciation languages.
We started with words ofaffirmation, stepped into
quality time, went into act ofservice, handed each other
tangible gifts, and then wetouched Physical touch, but
appropriate physical touch.
We went through all of them.
We talked about the do's, thedon'ts, the things you should do
to make people feel appreciated, but you know what we haven't
(22:22):
done?
We haven't answered the hardquestions, Bruce.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
The tough ones.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Oh, okay, and I'm ready to discuss, I'm ready to
break them down together.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
I didn't realize this was coming.
Let's do it.
Okay, I'm not.
I'm scared, but let's go, it'sgoing to be a little crazy.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
I think we need to turn our spin on the
appreciation languages.
Oh, I'm ready, okay, okay.
Question number one All right.
You ready?
Does it have to be personal toappreciate somebody?
(23:02):
Do I have to have a personalconnection with you Outside of
work to appreciate you?
Speaker 1 (23:11):
No, no, I'll even give an example Literally new
employee I've been working with,come on, just doing absolute
great work Making my life better, and I've already told them
multiple times like thank you,I'm grateful for you, you're
really just making my lifebetter by the work you're doing.
They're not on my team, theydon't report to me, they're not
(23:33):
even really part of myorganization, but like I felt
the need to reach out and tellthem Do you know anything about
this person outside of theirname?
No, no, and they genuinelyanything about this person
outside of their name?
No, no, and they genuine, likeI feel like their reaction was
genuine, like genuineappreciation of my appreciation
of them.
Yeah, it's interesting, but Ithink I think what happened in
that, that moment ofconnectivity, is, you know, I
(23:55):
wanted to show them how much Iappreciated what they were doing
, because if someone did that tome it would make my life.
They won't, but if they didit'd be great.
I always try to live by, youknow.
I mean like it's, it's truly.
I grew up in a veryconservative Christian world and
, uh, one thing that's alwaysstuck with me is do unto others
as you want to do to you.
(24:16):
And even as I've moved away fromthat upbringing, uh, stuck it
sticks with me, it sticks in mycraw, like I hope one day the
energy I put out there will bedone back to me, and not just
for my own self-satisfaction andselfishness, but I truly think
that's how you make the world abetter place.
So I see this person doing thework.
I reach out to them, I tellthem hey, thank you, like, truly
(24:36):
, you are helping me and all ofour peers by doing this.
You didn't have to do this.
It's really making a differenceand an impact and I just want
to say thank you, even thoughyou know you're fairly new, but
what that has done is it hascreated a personal relationship
because we talked about it andnow I feel like there's a
comfort that wasn't there before.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Yeah, whether you call it good karma, goodwill,
positive energy going on in theworld, I agree with you.
That is the energy that shouldbe put down.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
It doesn't need to start personal, but it will
always be personal, yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
That's what I've been going back and forth in my head
, because in the book they domention you know, relationships
are built upon relating to andwith one another and to truly
appreciate them.
This is their quote.
If you truly appreciate someonein a relationship, it must
exist.
If you don't have arelationship with them and you
look at them as just a resource,you can't actually appreciate
(25:29):
them.
It flows from valuing theperson.
If you don't value them ortheir work, getting to know them
as a person can help changethat.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
I don't think I've agreed with anything in that
book more than I agree with thatstatement.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
I agree, I'm with you .
Speaker 1 (25:44):
I think far too often we look at people.
We even call them resources,right like you do.
That's hiring a resource yeah,like we can't look at people
like they're machines, we haveto look at them like they're
people.
The fact that someone shows upto work to do their job is a
gift, in my opinion, and ittruly is right.
(26:06):
When someone does their job, Iam thrilled.
So I mean yeah, I love that.
I wholeheartedly agree.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Yeah, it is interesting.
You know, as I think back, I'vebeen reflecting a lot lately
with this book.
Just going through it, I'm likeam I showing appreciation to my
team in the way that they wantto feel appreciated?
How can I do better, similar toyou, trying to give back and
make sure I'm actually doing thethings that we talk about?
And I was torn.
I was like, but I canappreciate someone and not know
(26:33):
anything about them.
But, to your point, like everysingle example that I found, I
looked at people.
I looked at them across theroom, I looked at them at work.
I'm working with you for sixmonths.
I've been working with you forsix years.
I've been working with yousince the day I started.
And who do I actuallyappreciate?
And I noticed the trend of thepeople I actually appreciate.
I know stuff about thempersonally, because I think, as
(26:54):
we talked about in our lastepisode, it's only human to kind
of go to that next level.
And once you connect at thatnext level, then you really
start to appreciate and be ableto relate to the other person
and you're more willing toappreciate them as well.
And so it was reallyinteresting because at the
beginning I was like there's no,it's not necessary.
I don't even know anythingabout you and I can still
appreciate you for the work thatyou're doing, but the more I
(27:15):
thought about it I'm like no, Ithink you can start that way,
like you said, but I think italways ends knowing a little bit
about the other person.
That helps.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
You can't know anything about a person until
you reach out to them.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Yep, absolutely All right.
Another one for you, hard one,hard question.
Number two Remote workers.
How do you try and understandtheir appreciation language?
How do we accommodate theremote worker?
And maybe first, what do youthink is their primary for
remote workers?
The top primary appreciationlanguage.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
I've been a remote employee for 10 years now and
work for a completely remotecompany.
You could absolutely do wordsof appreciation.
Obviously, duh.
It means more when it includesif you're going to thank someone
(28:17):
and you're going to make a dealof it, you should probably
include their manager, right?
Because nothing feels betterthan getting an email that says,
with my manager attached hey,Bruce, you really knocked that
out of the park.
Thank you, and the manager doesnot care.
They don't care, but the personwho the thanks is geared toward
(28:37):
absolutely does.
You can absolutely do qualitytime spent together.
I literally do it with my teamall the time.
It's achievable, it's possibleand I would encourage more of it
than not doing it, Just doinglike jam sessions, get on a
team's call, work on somethingtogether or just, you know,
(28:58):
chill.
It's achievable.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Tangible gifts.
We don't even like thatvableyeah, absolutely Tangible gifts.
We don't even like that one,like, just don't do it.
Physical touch Don't do it, youdon't need to do it Not even
possible really to do?
Yeah, not even possible.
And I mean, when you meet upfor events and things, that's
your opportunity to do the highfive, the hug, the handshake,
(29:21):
the hearty hello, whatever.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Yeah, I think that's.
You know.
It's interesting when you saidthat because actually they talk
about, you know, I think, whatthey basically, with their
surveys they figured out thatmost people in the workplace are
words of affirmation.
They want to feel appreciatedby people telling them they're
doing a good job.
But remote workers, andespecially since remote work has
grown, they've seen a shift inremote workers.
(29:46):
Their primary appreciationlanguage is shifting to quality
time and that makes sensebecause you kind of feel
isolated when you're workingfrom home and so, to your point,
like even hopping on a quickcall with them and being like
hey, by the way, you know, justwanted to say I really
appreciate you.
You know, doing what you did onthe, on the slide deck, in the
code, whatever it is, you know,I think they just appreciate you
(30:07):
spending the time with them todo that more than the actual
words themselves, which Ithought was really interesting
and true.
You know it's cool when youjust get someone to pop in and
be like hey, you want to justtalk for a few Like.
That means a lot to the remoteworker.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
It really does.
And acts of service was the oneI forgot.
And I think, if anything, actsof service is even easier to do
in the remote world than it isin the physical.
Yeah, because everything isalready digitized.
So, hey, I'm going to go grabthis JIRA ticket and I literally
did this, right Like I knew oneof my peers.
He's planning for a launchthat's coming up in the next
(30:43):
couple of weeks.
I'm doing a launch in a month.
So he had this ticket and wewere talking about it during one
of our scrums.
He said I just don't know if Ihave time for this and I said,
hey, buddy, I got you, give methat ticket, I'll do it.
He's like thank you so much.
That means so much to me.
It's like, yeah, no, I got you,I know what to do, I know how
to get this done.
I just did it.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Just did it.
That's incredible.
I love it.
You really are living thevalues.
I live the values.
I am digging it A positiveplace to work your corporate
transformation.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Well, maybe I'm a positive person to work with.
I don't know if I'd go so faras to say, uh, my little light
has radiated to others, but I'mdoing the best.
I'm doing the best I can.
It'll get there or it won't,but that's totally fine yeah, I
know you gotta do I mean back tothe call to action, the
beginning of the episode.
You've got to be the change youwant to see in the world,
because no one else is going todo it for you.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
100 I'm right there with you.
All right hard point numberthree as a manager especially, I
think this one's important.
If you're always that personthat is out, you know, giving
high fives, telling everyonethey're great, unfortunately
that diminishes the value toother people, because if I'm
(31:59):
always going around high-fivingBruce and telling everyone
they're doing awesome and justspreading it with everybody,
that primary appreciationlanguage, even if it's words of
affirmation for you, getsdiminished unfortunately.
And so I think they talk a lotabout.
If you have someone who reallyleans into your appreciation
language and they're doing it24-7, it loses the value and
(32:19):
often you lean into yoursecondary appreciation language
instead as becoming the primarywith that person, which actually
that was a really interestingway to look at it, because it's
like you've got a primary,you've got a secondary, and if
the person who's trying to showyou appreciation is always doing
your primary, which in thebeginning probably sounds great,
over time you're like, okay,that one doesn't mean as much to
(32:41):
me anymore because Bruce justalways tells me I'm doing a good
job.
Now I want him to actually dosomething for me, like acts of
service or help me with a task.
Instead I throw up a counter.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
I'm going to throw up a counter.
Throw it up, I'm ready.
If you thank someone for doingsomething that requires thanks,
if you use an act ofappreciation for them doing
something that it requiresappreciation but you don't do it
(33:11):
consistently, that can actuallycause mental strain because
they're gonna be like why didn't, why didn't br Bruce appreciate
this thing that I did when?
I worked so much harder on thisthan this.
I try and go out of my way tobe consistent.
So, like I have my standard andif I mean maybe I am over
(33:34):
rotating on you know words ofappreciation or or quality time
or you know acts of service, butI would rather be consistent
and not have someone have likemental anguish over well, why,
what did I do differently thistime?
That wasn't praiseworthy,because I see it happen, right,
it happens with me, like someonewill thank me for the most
(33:56):
stupid, asinine thing, like whydid I get a shout out for that?
But it's like I'm.
I'm literally busting my humpover here trying to do this
monumental thing.
Like why did I get a shout outfor that?
But it's like I'm literallybusting my hump over here trying
to do this monumental thing Igot crickets.
That wears on me.
That really wears on me.
Because then I'm like why eventry?
Right?
Like, if they're not going tonotice the work, why try?
(34:16):
And I think that's a worseposition to be in than to be
like yeah, I am the best, keepit up.
I think I agree with you onthat.
It's a worse position to be inthan to be like yeah, I am the
best, keep it up.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
I think I agree with you on that.
That's a really goodcounterpoint.
And I think the span of timethat you work with somebody like
that almost becomes a worseproblem because like then they
kind of expect a level ofquality or production from you
and as life goes or things taperor you're not working as as
(34:44):
important things as you wereprior, then I think you feel
less appreciated because you'relike wait, but I was like doing
so good and now I don't getthose thanks or praises as much
and people aren't as impressedwith the work I'm doing and like
that does wear on youemotionally and psychologically
to be like am I just like off mygame, when in reality it's
probably for a lot of thingsthat are outside your control.
(35:06):
So I think to your point, likeit's probably better to be
consistent, as long as the workis actually good and you
appreciate it, to show to theother person.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Well, you can, you can use it as a feedback
mechanism in a way, right, like,why didn't Bruce thank me for
this thing that I did?
I must not have done.
Well, maybe I should have aconversation about that.
And and you know, there'sobviously an opportunity for me
to have a conversation with thatperson and say, hey, just
noticed, on that last thing youdid, there's a little bit of
drop in quality and the overalltone.
(35:35):
Let's see if we can, you know,focus on it.
But, like, when they get itback to where it needs to be,
you better believe I'm thankingthem again.
So they know like, oh, okay,I'm back in the groove, I'm back
in the swing.
Like, you can use it as adevice, like a check-in device.
I think this is not the point ofappreciation, but I think, like
the feedback engine sucks inmost corporate places and
(35:57):
appreciation is a form offeedback in a way, because it's
basically saying you did good.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Thank you Absolutely.
I think consistency is the wayto do it.
I think you're right, like I'drather someone be consistent in
sharing praise, even if thelevel or the importance of the
work is less.
You shouldn't just be like ohyeah, bruce always crushes, I'm
not like I'm not going to saythanks again.
It's like no, you should stillsay thanks because Bruce is
(36:22):
doing a great job and you know,getting rid of that will make
someone have self-doubt and feellike their work is diminished
or feel like they're missing themark, when in reality you're
just like no, I've done all thetime.
I don't want to overuse it.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
I think consistency is way better than the opposite.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
I'm with you, I agree .
All right, I've got two morehard ones for you.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
All right.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Are you ready?
I am.
Are appreciation languagesheavily skewed based on type of
job or compensation, like onceyou hit a certain compensation
mark or you work in a certainmaybe like C-suite level or a
certain type of job?
Speaker 1 (37:02):
Yes, I've been.
I was told yeah, I was toldlike as soon as you get to
management you kiss appreciation, goodbye.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Yeah.
And you're focused on yourteams.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Yeah, and that's been true for me.
It's been very true for me, andit's probably had a resulting
impact on why we started thepodcast the way we did.
Uh, you know well.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
it is interesting too because you think about
fulfillment from the work.
We spent a lot of time workinglike you shouldn't work and do
something that fulfills you.
And as you go into management,your individual contributions
and the praise you used toreceive and the appreciation you
used to receive kind of has togo away, and you have to.
You have to get the fulfillmentfrom your team doing a good job
(37:50):
, regardless of the appreciationyou're receiving.
It's like your team gettingthat recognition is actually
more important than you gettingthe recognition because it shows
you're a good leader, andsomeone kind of coached me on
that as I was kind of goingthrough that transition.
But, to your point, like I didgo through that chasm of you
know probably took maybe a yearand a half two years to like
really try to feel good aboutthat and like I am so proud of
(38:12):
my team that fulfills me insteadof someone coming and telling
me that I'm doing incrediblework.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Okay, counter me, that's garbage and and you know
what.
That's probably why so manyupper execs suck, because
they've given up on receivingany kind of feedback, both
positive and negative, thatthey're in their headspace of oh
(38:38):
, my team, my team's doing great, I'm doing great.
No, no, you know what?
Like, just think about this.
Thought experiment time, right,not you.
Think about your boss's, boss's, boss.
If they had the appreciationframework set up where, when
they executed really well onsomething that you know, they're
(39:02):
the people underneath them, hey, bosses, bosses, boss.
Thanks Thanks so much forrunning this project.
Like, I feel like yourleadership really helped us get
it there.
You did a great job.
If they didn't get that andthey were used to it, that's an
immediate indicator of like, hey, you're not leading the way you
need to lead.
But because we don't give it,positively or negatively, they
(39:22):
get nothing and what ends uphappening is they start getting
this like megalom, megalomaniac.
Well, if I'm, if I'm judged onmy team's performance, my team
is always doing good, so I mustbe good as well.
Like, that's such a bad way tothink about things and I've
never thought about that untilyou said it right now, because
I've been fed the same slop, theexact same slop Like this just
(39:44):
creates a sort of a narcissisticfeedback loop in our head where
we assume we're doing goodbecause our team's doing good.
That could absolutely not betrue.
And many times it's not.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Yeah, that's a really good point and I think you
mentioned something too and youkind of said it.
But just to maybe say itanother way, I think you
mentioned something too and youkind of said it, but just to
maybe say it another way, Ithink it goes up and down, like,
as you're talking to yourleader, you have to be willing
to share that feedback.
I had a mid-year reviewrecently and at the end of it I
was like hey, I just want to saythank you so much for the
feedback.
You know positive and negative.
(40:16):
You know I understand thethings I need to work on.
I understand how I'm going tokeep on progressing and I just
wanted to say thank you for yourleadership.
You know the hard conversationsthat we do have helped me become
better and I appreciate yourleadership and guidance through
this and I know that means a lotto them.
But I think they're so.
I think it was unexpected,because they just don't expect
it.
Like it's so out of the bluewhen that happens, because
(40:36):
they're so used to just likedrive, drive, drive team does
the work.
I don't need appreciation, I'mthe boss and like I think it.
It just caught them off guardbecause they're like wait, thank
you, like that was actuallyreally really cool, like we had
a very human moment.
So it's interesting,interesting perspective on that
and if?
Speaker 1 (40:53):
if that person got used to being thanked and then
suddenly stopped getting thankedand they weren't getting
thanked, they'd probably be likewhat's going on?
Like I probably need to checkin and see, like, am I not doing
everything I need to be doingfor my team to make sure that
they're feeling that I'm givingthem what they need?
Speaker 2 (41:10):
Absolutely, I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
I think they get blind, especially when you're at
the top and you have no onegiving you that feedback ever.
I think it changes how you areand how you look at the work and
the work your team's doing andappreciation in general where
you might not, you might noteven appreciate others, because
you never get it either.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
Yep, I think that's.
I think that's a big part ofthe problem, right?
Like?
Ceos are based on companyperformance, not employee
performance, and they get bigbonuses when the company
performs well.
So they're they're motivated tonot play nicely with the
employee, which creates aculture of I got to get mine and
I don't care about anythingelse as long as I'm getting my
(41:52):
number.
Yeah, that's it, that's allthat matters.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Everybody's just resources.
We're not resources, we'repeople resources, we're resource
planning.
All we got to do is hit ournumber Human.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
We're people, we're resources, we're resource
planning.
All we got to do is hit ournumber.
Human resources, human freakingresources yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Honestly, it's so messed up that that's the name
of the department.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
I didn't realize we were humans.
I needed you to tell me that Iforgot.
I thought we were cogs in amachine.
I'm so glad you reminded methat we're humans.
Let's get to the next one.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
All right, we got to do one last one, one last big
one.
What if you actually don'tappreciate your team members?
What do you do?
You don't appreciate your teammembers we're supposed to show
appreciation, bruce, that's Idon't appreciate that that's a
(42:52):
coaching opportunity, right?
Speaker 1 (42:53):
I mean, that's that's more reflection on you than
them.
Again, like I, I feel like thisthis is the problem, right?
Like this is a reflection onthe team leader, not the team
members.
If you one, you hired them two,it's your job to coach them and
shepherd them towards success.
Find ways, give them feedbackearly, give it often If they're
(43:16):
not doing something well, likemaybe it's time for coaching.
If they continue to dosomething well, maybe it's time
for you know you're not a goodfit for this role.
Let's see if we can find youanother fit in the company.
If that's not a case, then it'stime to say goodbye.
But, like, if you're notappreciating them, then you're
not doing the work to make surethey're successful, not the
other way around.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
You know, this is why I love having you as a podcast
partner, because you're just sosmart.
That's exactly the first thingit says.
It talks about this wholechapter and it basically says
first step sort out your ownissues.
Spot on.
It's like, yeah, you'reprobably doing something or
looking at this wrong.
(43:58):
You know you might be holdingtoo high of expectations for
your team, where they'reactually doing really well, but
you're not seeing what everybodyelse does around them and it's
skewing your perspective becauseyour ego is in the way or you
think your work is of suchhigher quality opportunity
(44:23):
management opportunity.
You should understand whatthey're working on and if you
don't feel like they're meetingtheir objectives, you should be
asking questions and trying tofigure out hey, what are you
working on?
What priorities are getting inyour way?
Why is it taking so long to getthis thing done?
And they're like, oh shoot, Ididn't realize you were doing
500 other things, like wateringthe plants every morning when
you come to the office, so theyaren't dead.
I didn't realize you did thatuntil they leave and all your
plants are dead.
You're like who was wateringthe plants?
Speaker 1 (44:46):
I just, every day there's a creeping moment in my
growing anxiety that I thinkabout any single one of my
teammates leaving in the processit would take to rehire for
that role and to be able to dowhat they do and to onboard them
and train them.
(45:07):
And every single day, my, my, mywatch starts to warn me about
my heart rate and I just I can'tand it's, it's honestly, one of
my biggest concerns.
It's, it's why I'm in thisstate that the back to the
inshinification right.
Like you, you have to be ableto appreciate what is good that
(45:29):
you have in your life, becauseit is a fleeting resource, right
?
And if those people leave and Ican't show them the kind of
appreciation they need to keepthem on, who's going to do that
work?
Cause I can't show them thekind of appreciation they need
to keep them on, who's going todo that work?
Because I can't do it, yeah,and that terrifies me Because I
(45:51):
don't know if I have everythingthat I need that the company
needs to show them the kind ofappreciation they want to be
appreciated for.
Yeah, it's just an existentialcrisis I deal with it is.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
But every, every day, you bring up such a valid point
and like that's why anybody whosays like well, I don't
appreciate people around me,it's like they gotta you gotta
look around, especially if youmanage people and you don't
appreciate people on your ownteam, that is a you problem.
It's a you problem, it's not athem problem.
You have to manage that.
That is a you problem.
It's a you problem.
It's not a them problem.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
You have to manage that.
There are people that I workwith that do their job terribly
and I still appreciate thembecause I would rather they had
their job than I did.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
Yeah, agreed, it's like someone has to shovel the
poop every day.
Yeah, and yes, they do skidmarks on every hallway.
Speaker 1 (46:40):
they shovel.
But you know, what's worse thanskid marks Is turds on the
ground, just big old, juicy,ripe turds.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
Yep Steaming the office shitter that comes in and
just on his last day he justpoops.
I'm saying he, I don't knowthat it was a he.
We know it's a he.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
Let's be real.
He just had $17 of CortinaSupremes and he's come in with a
vengeance.
He didn't opt in for the firesauce no, he's not living in
2007.
He got the Diablo sauce, whichis a one way ticket to diarrhea
town right out of them, right inthe middle of the hallway.
(47:23):
It's like a proton pack fromGhostbusters.
The positron wand is blasting.
That hallway is never going tobe the same shade again.
It doesn't matter how manyshovels you use, you can't paint
over that.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
You get grease on like a paver or on something,
and now you're like well, theonly way to solve this is more
grease everywhere.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
That's what he has to do.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
He has to come in and finish the job.
Finish the job.
Acts of service.
Acts of service.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
You suddenly think to yourself wait a second, maybe I
should appreciate.
I should appreciate thisindividual For the service
they're providing me.
I didn't realize we needed thisbefore, and now we do, and I
should probably thank them fortheir service.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
That's how you change your perspective, right there?
Well, one last one.
Okay, what if they irritate youfor personality reasons?
They talk too much, they laughtoo much, they chew with their
mouth open.
What if you're just like,listen, their work's great, but,
holy cow, they chew like ahorse and you just can't stand
(48:35):
being around them because theyalways got to chew like a horse.
Can you still appreciate them?
Can you look past?
The personality issues.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
Absolutely you can and in fact, like I'm not, this,
this whole thing.
You're not marrying the person,you're not even asking them out
to bowl with you.
This is an opportunity for youto build a small relationship to
better the workplace make, makeyour life a little bit better,
make their life a little bitbetter.
And if they annoy the crap outof you, that's fine.
Just deal with them.
When you deal with them andthen separate.
(49:12):
You don't need to spend yourlife with them, even if they're
on your team, even if your team,your direct reports, annoy the
ever-loving hell out of you.
If they're doing a good job,show appreciation, set distance,
be reasonable, right, like I'mnot going to set hour-long
one-on-ones every week or justspend a lot of time with this
person.
(49:32):
Just I'm gonna do 15 minutes,right, like I do what I need to
do to get the job done and getchecked in.
And then I mean I think thebiggest thing is you'll see this
with like people who areactively on like opposite ends
of the political spectrum.
It's like I don't want to be ina room with this person because
they are the opposite of me andwe clash on everything.
You can still find appreciationin what the value they bring to
(49:55):
the company is and you can showthem that and I'm not saying
you have to go to Benihana withthem on the corporate retreat.
You can sit at the other sideof the table, you can excuse
yourself but like absolutelystill appreciate that person.
Speaker 2 (50:08):
I agree.
Yeah, it's about.
I think you have to look pastsome of those things, avoid some
of the situations, but alsocreate the constraints to not
step into those things.
If it's like politicalconversations they're always
doing that you can just be likehey, if you don't mind.
You know I really appreciateand value our workplace
(50:28):
relationship.
Some of our political viewsaren't always one-to-one, you
know.
I'd love if we could just talkabout work, because I really
love working with you and, likeyou, can, you can say it in a
way that is still respectful andyou're just setting a boundary.
Speaker 1 (50:41):
You're drawing a line to say let's just not cross
that line, it's not worth it,and I don't need to be
expressing my political viewsand getting frustrated with you
about something that we don'tagree on because it's not
relevant to the workplace and soI think if they respond with
anything other than cooperation,like if there's an indignance,
if there's insubordination thenit's a time for you to consider
(51:02):
like, okay, well, maybe I needto move this person to a
different team, maybe we need tohave an HR intervention here.
But there are ways to deal withthis problem beyond not showing
appreciation for the work.
Speaker 2 (51:14):
A hundred percent.
And also, if you're managingyour team, give them frameworks
that they can use so you canavoid those annoying things.
Like you have an hour longone-on-one to your point,
constrain the time to say, hey,I got a short hour one-on-one,
like, let's just keep it allbusiness.
Like you can do things likethat or you know I've had a
schedule.
Speaker 1 (51:37):
Yeah, Create a schedule, create an agenda First
, first part of one-on-one allabout.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
Yeah, I've had team members that vent the whole time
and I give them frameworks.
Now I'm like, hey, listen, myjob is to help you through your
hurdles and I love talking withyou, but I also got a lot going
on.
So I need you to come with mewith a clear problem, three
recommendations of things wecould do, or three solutions to
solve your problem that youthought of, and then your
recommendation, and then I canhelp coach you.
(52:02):
You know, I can help, give youfeedback and I can be really
direct and we can progressrather than just venting the
whole time.
And I think people doappreciate that.
I think some people will stillwant that quality time.
So you have to be conscious ofthat, but still make it
productive and draw thoseboundaries so you can, you know,
be considerate of being able toappreciate them and not letting
those personality traits, youknow, override how you feel
(52:22):
about them.
Speaker 1 (52:23):
I think it's also worth mentioning you don't need
to be everything to everyone,right?
Maybe?
Maybe they're looking forsomething in you that they can
find in a coworker that is somuch more suited.
You guys can go.
You guys can go have your weirdArby's meal and talk about your
, your strange political beliefs, and you'll have a great time.
(52:43):
It's going to be so much betterthan if I was there.
Go enjoy yourself, right, likeyou can separate, segment and
even offer.
You know, oh yeah, that thatyou know who.
You know who loves underwaterskiing.
Jeffrey loves it.
You should talk to him about it.
Speaker 2 (52:59):
Yeah, why don't all three of us go to lunch next
week?
And then, right when you'reabout to go to lunch, I say oh
sorry guys, I gotta bow out, butyou two, you two should still
go and talk, or go facilitatethe first conversation and then
dip.
Speaker 1 (53:12):
You won't ever need to go again.
I guarantee you, jeffrey andjim and I, they're gonna get
along just great.
Speaker 2 (53:17):
I love it.
Great tip.
This has been a really funseries.
Speaker 1 (53:22):
It has.
I wait for the future, becausewe're never going to do
something like this again.
Speaker 2 (53:26):
Yeah, I know Right.
I mean maybe maybe once everyfive years we surprise our
listeners and actually dosomething that is consistent and
goes on for more than anepisode or two.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
I mean, that'd be great.
I would love to do that.
Speaker 2 (53:37):
We'll see if they appreciate it.
If they appreciate it, yeahsure.
Speaker 1 (53:41):
If you don't no have.
I haven't heard any words ofappreciation I'm not getting any
acts of service.
Speaker 2 (53:49):
I say that.
And then we got a message, adirect message, from somebody
while we were having thisdiscussion.
So maybe they do appreciate us.
They're trying to spend qualitytime with us maybe, maybe all
right, let me leave you withthis.
Okay, I think you left a greatwith it with.
(54:12):
A great point is like one setthe proper expectations for
yourself.
You can't be everything foreveryone, like.
You've got to be thoughtful.
You have to be considerate ofyour time and how you show
appreciation to others and do itwhere your head and your heart
are in the right place.
Don't just do it because youfeel like you're obligated to.
Like man, I hate this personbut I'm going to go tell them
(54:33):
how awesome they are because itwill feel disingenuous.
So try to figure out what istheir appreciation language.
Don't ask them directly.
Or maybe do ask them directlyin a respectful manner.
Observe what they do and whatthey do for others and how they
kind of express appreciation,you know.
Listen to their complaints andtry to understand.
You know, if they keep on saying, well, nobody has time for me
(54:53):
and I'm not getting the focus,attention to understand this,
like maybe it's quality timethat you need to lean into for
this person, because thenthey'll feel more appreciated,
and just explore how they'reencouraged.
Just ask them like hey, youknow, I noticed after that
meeting.
You know you had a big smile onyour face when we all kind of
clapped for you at the end Is,you know, words of affirmation
and you know, in a publicsetting is that really how you
(55:13):
kind of feel, appreciated fordoing great work, and you can
ask those types of questions andthen you can lean into that to
help them.
So this whole series has beengreat and I think you know, like
you said, if we can carry thisinto our workplaces, not only
will our teams and the peoplearound us feel more appreciated,
but hopefully we're making thecorporate world a little bit of
a better place.
Speaker 1 (55:32):
I couldn't agree more .
I think it's such a positivenote to end this on because, if
not for us, do it for you andyou will feel better for it.
Truly, I feel better when I doit and it's I.
I'll even challenge you, clark,you know.
You said you know if youabsolutely hate the person, you
(55:52):
don't have to go out of your way.
I say, do I say if you hate theperson but they did good work,
let them know.
Like, truly, I've done it.
Speaker 2 (56:02):
it feels good, yeah, it feels good personality stuff
aside, put your personalfeelings aside.
You can do it, evaluate thework and if it is truly good, if
they helped you in some way,even though you hated every
second of it, you should do it,I agree you should do it.
Speaker 1 (56:15):
You should absolutely do it.
Well, that's it, that's it.
That's all we got.
That's the last episode ofcorporate strategy.
The podcast could have been anemail time to burn this book.
Season finale.
Burn it.
Hold on to that.
Actually, you, you might needthat for heat, uh, when the dark
times come oh true, yeah,actually good point yeah yeah,
(56:37):
that's good burning material.
So, yeah, use that.
Uh, we're gonna have, we'regonna have to schedule.
We have a guest episode thatwe're going to have to schedule.
We have a guest episode that weneed to schedule and get on the
books in the future.
So, if you're done withappreciation, you were done
before we started.
Guess what?
We're getting back to regularcorporate strategy.
Podcast is going to be in anemail very soon.
If, for whatever reason, you'renot in the Discord you should
(56:59):
be you can do that by clickingon the show notes, going to the
link tree in the bottom of thenotes.
Join our Discord.
It's free, it's safe, it's fun,it's easy, it's a good
environment.
The most amazing thing about it, if I can shout out like, yeah,
we don't have the most activecommunity ever, but we have no
trolls.
There's never been any likeweird off color material that's
come in there.
(57:19):
It's a good group of people, sodon't feel like you are joining
a bunch of weirdos.
It is all professionally mindedpeople who just want to do
better.
Um, so shout outs to ourdiscord.
We have a store.
You could buy a shirt on withour logo on it, if that that
motivates you and we also.
Uh, you could give us somemoney, because this, this is
(57:39):
completely funded by me and, uh,if you want to, if you want to
pay me for the podcast that I'verun for the last God knows how
many years, uh, you can do that.
You can just click the buy us acoffee button and give me a
dollar and that will offset thethousands that I've lost.
I think that's, it is.
Uh, anything else?
Speaker 2 (57:57):
Clark.
Uh, yeah, I've got two wordsfor you that I wrote down and I
hope you remember what they are.
Speaker 1 (58:06):
Corn slash chickpea, oh no.
Speaker 2 (58:08):
I wrote it down, oh no and I hope you remember,
because I said I'd write it down.
It's on my notepad, it's rightin front of me.
It says corn slash chickpea.
No, you know what I think Iknow what it is I told you to
write that down.
Speaker 1 (58:20):
Should I tell you?
Should I tell you no, I knowwhy Do you remember?
See, there was a moment duringthis pod when you could have
said corn slash chickpea and Icould have just smoothly
transitioned into this.
And now at the end, at the 59thminute, still, how do you?
Speaker 2 (58:43):
even think of this.
Speaker 1 (58:44):
I don't even remember why we were talking about this.
It was after the last pod,right, it was after a pod.
Speaker 2 (58:52):
It was during.
I'm pretty sure.
We had a brief discussionduring the last one about corn
or something, and then it turnedinto corn and chickpea.
Speaker 1 (59:03):
Yeah, do you know, do you know?
Speaker 2 (59:12):
You haven't even said anything.
I'm crying.
I'm crying.
This was when we canceled theshow clark, how often do you eat
corn?
Speaker 1 (59:30):
no, I actually love corn, maybe so, okay, you love
corn once a month, once a month,have you noticed in, in, in the
exit process, in the exitinterview of that corn, in the
exit process, in the exitinterview of that corn, in the
exit interview of the corn, thatit makes a reappearance as if
(59:51):
nothing had changed at all?
Speaker 2 (59:56):
I try not to observe you, should I mean it's healthy.
Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
It is healthy to examine the human waste to make
sure you know your bowels arenormal, your lower intestine is
performing the way it should be.
So I do recommend, as someonewho suffers with IBS, to
evaluate your exit.
Fun fact about corn.
Did you know the body can'tdigest the shell?
Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
I don't know, just the shell.
Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
They always tell me there's no nutrient value from
corn.
Speaker 2 (01:00:30):
I think that's a lie, though right, it is a lie, that
is a lie.
Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
In fact, the reason why you're seeing it in your
waist is because the shellitself, the little husk of the
kernel, cannot be digested.
Interesting, but the inside isso, those little corn nuggets
that show up in your waist.
They're actually shit nuggetswrapped in corn.
Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
What the hell Wild, wild.
Speaker 1 (01:00:59):
Wild Mm-hmm Well.
Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
I would say shitification is happening all
around us.
Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
And now it's happening all around us
literally inside of us fromstart to finish.
I mean, what a better way tothink about just the way we're
going than starting off as abeautiful piece of yellow,
golden delicious corn and comingout the other side absolutely
full of shit.
Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
That's a way to end it right there.
I think so.
Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
Full circle.
That's the final episode ofCorporate Strategy y'all.
I hope you really enjoyed thispodcast.
Just in general, I reallyenjoyed doing it with you, clark
.
It's been a great time.
It's been a great run.
Speaker 2 (01:01:43):
It's been a great run .
We'll talk again at some point.
Well, thank you, I appreciatedthat ending.
Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
I needed that?
Yeah, I think so.
I think it's a good note to endit on.
Hey, if you can't do anything,do yourself.
I'm Bruce and I'm Clark andyou're on mute.
We'll see you next week.
Eat some corn, chew it up.
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