Stop Playing It Safe with Adam Schomer

Episode Transcript
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Adam Schomer (00:00):
Yeah, eventually we realize we're, we are whole
and perfect and, and that wecould have just sat back and
accepted ourselves in abeautiful way. Right, but
sometimes takes some work to getto that ability to do that.

Jayadev Woodford (00:13):
Yeah, it's like, it's like to truly relax,
you have to work hard.

It's like, like a sport. Sometimes you have to
practice the skills so that whenyou're out in the field, it's
effortless. Even though there'sa ton of effort, the skills come
automatically Yeah, so freedomis inherent. But sometimes
because of what we're born into,we need practices to help us
remember what's natural. Yeah.
What's gone on. make it seemnatural. The transit Well, let

(00:43):
me ask you this then.

Yeah, let me ask you this then. I looked let
me know but let me ask you thisthough. What was I gonna?

universe, beep filter universe

and the coffee?

You ready?
Absolutely. who's listening outthere?

Welcome to spiritual but not ridiculous. A
podcast that explores the worldof spirituality. From a grounded
and clear eyed perspective. I'myour host jayadev yoga teacher,
Vedic astrologer, attorney andtechnologist. Adam shomer, is a

(01:37):
documentary film and TVdirector, writer and producer
and the president of ITVproductions. Recently, he
produced and released theincredibly successful he'll
documentary, a number oneiTunes, best seller and a
Netflix hit. Adam has alsodirected and created the road to
Dharma, a 10 episode televisionseries that has a powerful
online companion course calledliving a life of freedom. He is

(02:01):
currently spearheading a globalonline summit for the Netflix
hit and iTunes bestsellerfantastic fungi. In addition to
this, he is currently developingthree docu series and two
features that are meaningful,inspiring, and like all his
projects, bring wisdom throughentertainment. Adam is also a
dear friend and personalinspiration to me. He's a great

(02:21):
example of how spirituality andthe spiritual path can be light
hearted and fun and authentic.
In this episode, we explore therole of fear and forgiveness on
the spiritual path, utopiancommunities and the importance
of community and giving peopletools for living through the
kind of elevated entertainmentthat Adam produces. We also talk
about the power of followingyour heart, how to build

(02:44):
resilience, and much more. Hereis my conversation with Adam.
Alright, so I'm here with Adamshomer. And Adam is an old
friend of mine from India. Yeah,he's a producer. True writer,

(03:10):
director, Yogi? Yeah. antibodiesare for professional bodies are
fresh. Yeah, there's

a big circuit.

So yeah, so I appreciate you being on the
podcast. Absolutely. You're oneof my favorite people. longtime
fan. Thank you. Yeah. So you'reknown for, among other things,
the highest pass a documentaryabout Indian yoga teacher.
Right.

You could say I think it's really about facing
death and fear.

Right, right.
Yeah. It's about a bunch ofpeople on motorcycles going over
the highest pass in the world.
True. Was that what doc?

It is up through the doc? Yeah, yeah. But back in
northern India.

Yeah. Yeah.
Beautiful, beautifuldocumentary. Highly recommended.
Thank you. early in your career,so very impressed.

first film. Yeah.
first film, heart probablyhardest ever. But first though.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's it's impressive on
many levels, but even just thefact that you got it is
impressive.

Meaning that we got the footage, you got the
footage, and didn't die. Itdidn't die. That was what I was
more impressive. Like, it's likefirst time producer, first time
director and first timemotorcycle rider which was the
hardest, right? The motorcyclingwas the hardest because that's
where you die. Right? So you youfell right? on that one.

I was later it

was later. I'm sure I fell a couple of times
like not hard falls just likeearly in the trip. I there's a
drop of the bike. Like I went topick up someone's sunglasses or
something and forgot my bike wason. You know, we can talk about
that more. I guess. rookiemistake riding motorcycles are
dangerous when you don't knowhow to do it.

Right. Yeah, right. Right. Cuz at that point
you've been riding for how long?

Two and a half weeks? Two and a half weeks?
Yeah. Before going on. Probablya very treacherous ride. Yeah.

Okay. Highest pass and then you've also done
like the one little pill, right?
Yeah. He'll, everyone probablyknows document. About how the
body can heal itself. Right?

Yeah. empowering people to through our, through
our emotions through ourthoughts. Yes, yes, the body
heals on its own, that we alsohave more, more a part to play
in our healing than just takingorders from the doctor. It's not
it's not pissing on the westernmedicine. It's saying let's
integrate kind of likeintegrative medicine saying,
let's look at it holistically asa Hey, our emotions have

(05:23):
something to do with it. ourthoughts, our visualization, our
purpose in life. So we cover alot of things in that film, and
it's helped a lot of people veryproud of that

one. Yeah, that's a beautiful film. Yeah.
And then you have your ownproduction company. Is that
right? I tried production. Ithought, yeah. So what's the
focus there?

The focus of the production company? Yeah. Great
question. Um, you know, thetagline is uniting entertainment
and wisdom, right. So I camefrom a comedy background, I came
from story me in a narrativesense versus nonfiction. So I
always wanted it to beentertaining. But I really felt
that we needed the wisdom in ourentertainment in order for it to

(06:00):
like land home and actuallychange people, you know, rather
than just be entertainment ordrugs. Yeah, you know, eye
candy, if you will.

Right. Right.
I love that. Yeah. And it'simportant to though to make sure
that the like, spiritualinformation or wisdom, it has an
entertaining element to it too,right. Yeah, story.

So you can relate, right? One thing to hear like a,
you know, a Dharma talk. Butit's another thing to watch
people go through something andhave story and then weave in
that wisdom and say, I canempathize with that character.
And thus, I can empathize withthat wisdom, maybe landing in my
life. Yeah, I think it's, thisis how we've used story, you
know, in the, in the past, yeah.
Before now, right beforeadvertising, right, per se. No

(06:39):
offense to your advertisers onthis. advertising is fine. But
But yeah, I mean, we should wecan we can use story for for
helping each other out. So

yeah, storytelling is so important. I
mean, I've heard there was aquote somewhere I forget who
said it. But, you know, universeis not made of atoms but of
stories. That we don't know. Idon't I forget. good story.
Yeah. So we saw you and I met inIndia, I think, maybe four years
ago. Because you were the firstsummit at software. Right?

I don't know if I was I don't think so. Okay,
maybe later. Maybe later. Acouple years back three years
back, maybe? I don't reallydoesn't matter. I know. We were
united in San Francisco. Right.

Right. Yeah.
We went to your showing of youryour new show. Yeah, right.
Well, it's not new now. Butfurther down, wrote it arm.
Yeah.

And then Didn't we go to when you were working at
that point would have Airbnb or?
Oh, yeah, I

met you for lunch. Yeah, that's right. Yeah,
that's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
So yeah, road to Dharma, whichis a series

series. So highest pass was the first film and then
wrote a Dharma was like, hey,let's, I want to do this again.
But I want to do, you know, Iwant to focus more on the other
writers rather than just my ownjourney and the guru, anon, and
really, with a series have moretime, you know, to go into the
wisdom to go into thecharacters, you know, 10

(08:04):
episodes, now you're talkingwhat half hour episode, that's
five hours to really dive deepinto things. Whereas in a
feature, you have a certainpacing, like I talked about that
narrative pacing, entertainmentvalue, got to keep to. So I
really want to do as a series, alot of people said, No, you're
going to feature length stick towhat you're good at. I'm like,
No, this has to be a series. Andso I did. And thus, you know, an
independent series was born and,and even, of course, to go along

(08:25):
with it, and a lot of otherthings. But in essence, you
know, riding through the more onmotorcycles to the Himalayas, to
sacred sites, and, again,experiencing fear and death
while looking for something thatI think is dear to everybody,
which is freedom.

Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. And those two things areconnected, right. Freedom and
fear are basically two sides ofthe coin.

Thank you. They can be Yeah. How do you think
so? Well,

I think, you know, it's, it's only by
transcending your fear or movinginto it with intention that you
can become truly free. Right.
That's been a big part of mypractice. Anyone else? Yeah.

I think Yeah, of course. Right?

What's your relationship to fear these days?

Yeah, start their relationship to is good is a
really good question. Myrelationship to fear is that it
can be a beacon of growth. Sowhen you see it come up, it's
not like, Hey, I'm not goodenough. Why am I so afraid? No,
it's like, oh, cool. I'm pushingthe limit a bit. That's good.
I'm afraid. I'm, I'm pushingmyself to be courageous again.
So that's good. I must be out ofmy comfort zone. This is all

(09:30):
good. So my relationship to fearis that and then sometimes my
relationship to fear is stillthen reacting to it and then
having to look afterwards, goback and go, Oh, I see. I was
afraid and that reaction camefrom that. So my relationship
sometimes is 30 minutes later.
And then recognizing what drovemy actions. That was fear of
loss or that was one thingreason like just feeling like

(09:54):
the loss of something andwatching the branch projecting
the future And like, I'll planthis, maybe I'll do this this
and then I was like, No, no, no,no, no, no, you're just feeling
loss right now. Or the fear ofloss of something really more,
you know, let me feel that for awhile.

Yeah. Do you have an example of a loss that
you want to talk about?

Let's say like, even relationship, something's
ending, right? And okay, maybeI'll say this to this person in
the future, tomorrow, or this orreconcile a different way. It's
like, No, actually just feelwhat's happening. It's changing,
the relationship is changing,that part's done. And there
comes fear with it of like, Oh,I'm not going to have this or
this, this part of it anymore.
That's where I think the fearis,

and the fear is partly to have sort of a fear
of having to feel that feelingmaybe is a part of it.

I think, I think inherently we have a feel a fear
of having to feel that and thefear of like, maybe the
addictive quality of not havingthe things you want all the
time. And then when where am Igoing to get those things? You
know, and you go, Whoa, well,before I take that fear and
start planning, which I think alot of us do, yeah, get the
input of fear from society andthen go plan to avoid it. Yeah.

(11:02):
Why not just feel like, oh,things are changing. That's all
that's happening. Yeah. Delta.
Life is, life is changing.
That's what happens. Yeah, youknow, and go, Oh, the meaning
things are always dying. Andthings are always rebirth. That
is actually life. Right? versusavoiding that part. Right. going

(11:23):
on. Let me for once, feel thatthing called loss, right and not
have to run from it.

Yeah, it's beautiful. What are we talking
about two is a is gettingcomfortable with just feeling
intense emotions, right. So it'sthat part of it?

I think is a permitted for me, meditation has
been like the key to be able todo that. Yeah, it's made me a
human that can feel somethingversus run away from feeling.

Yeah, yeah. I feel like learning to feel your
feelings is such a huge part ofthe spiritual path. Yeah. I
mean, I've spent entire, youknow, meditation sessions just
trying on the mat. You know, onthe on the meditation cushion.

This is beautiful.
Yeah. This is like, I mean,what's important to me on the
spiritual path, because I knowyour listeners are spiritual,
looking at spirituality. Right,right. Is that if it doesn't
apply to the human being and ourexperience here on Earth, and
like, what good is it? Yeah,anything, even a belief system?
If it doesn't translate into howwe live, I was talking to

(12:20):
someone the other day that waslike, I believe I'm an alien. I
came from this planet. You'rethis this type of alien, this
person's this type of alienthis? And I'm like, okay, you
know? And then I said, What'sthat do for you? Right?

You know, what's

that actually makes me feel like, I can
actually love myself becausethese qualities of that alien
are what I am. And I no longerhave to think it's weird.
Because I'm part of something.
I'm

like, well, that's beautiful. That Yeah,
it's like a form of selfacceptance, self acceptance. And

if it means like, you feel you're an alien, or you
feel you're a Christian, or youfeel whatever, if that helps you
feel more self love, and thus bemore available to other.
Alright, cool.

Yeah, I mean, it reminds me of, uh, I mean, in
a sense, what you're talkingabout, it's just different kinds
of archetypes. Right. And I feellike in the yoga tradition, we
have the same model, basically,right? We've got the different
deities, the gods and goddesses.
Yeah. And you might identifywith one and that helps you to
accept yourself more orwhatever. And if that's aliens,
hey, you know,

I think it's a good way of saying it within a
few days. Exactly. It helpsremind you of parts of yourself.
And I don't have to believe thestory that this person cut that
one's head off, and the tosscame and did that. Right. That's
a parable to help me understandsomething and don't have to
believe it happened.

It didn't have to happen. Right? Didn't have,
right. Yeah, and these are alljust stories. Like I was saying
the universe is made of stories.

We're done. The whole podcast figured it out.
It's a wrap, but it takes sevenminutes. The shortest podcast
ever. I covered my cut, youknow, a couple movies were good.

Yeah, it was this for this is yours. I have
called spiritual but not thatlong. Well, um, so this podcast
is in large part about exploringthe entire world of
spirituality, you know, not justyoga, per se, let's say But
yeah, but everything is openeverything and, and exploring in
a way that's like grounded andsort of clear eyed, you know,

(14:13):
and accessible, you know, andso, with that, with that
approach, you know, I like tohear how people have come to
different practices orspirituality. So do you want to
talk a little bit about yourjourney with with spirituality,
share

your story a little bit, I'll do the quicker
version, and then we can diveinto a little areas are more
important, but my first realjump into meditation was in
college. I was 18. Is thatright? Yeah. 18 and someone had
a meditation tape. It was reallybody relaxation, and then just
being with the breath. It wasawesome. I think we smoked some

(14:47):
weed and did it and I thought itwas great. But as soon as
someone said, I have this tape.
I was like, Yes. So I wasprimed. I was ready. I don't
know why I was so ready. Partlyprobably because in you know,
science minded kid, but I did.
mushrooms in later years of highschool and maybe that helped
open up but even before that,Deepak Chopra's book ages Bodhi

(15:08):
time was mine for mergingquantum physics and
spirituality. And that workedfor me as a science minded kid.
And before that I had readGandhi's autobiography, I
believe, actually, in seventhgrade, I picked it up and a lot
of reading it early, early andwas just like I can't you know,
at night, I remember like, lateinto the night just kept going
and going and going. And then Iremember I, you know, I have

(15:30):
neighbors that were Indian, Igrew up with the smells and a
lady that had overcome cancerwithout chemo and just, you look
at these little things thatmight have been leading up and
priming me at a young age, but Ithink I was also just
intuitively or inherently wouldbe a better word. Interested?
Yeah. So when I was there, Ijust grabbed it. And then from
college, kept exploring, youknow, different books on

(15:52):
meditation retreat here andthere like one in Australia. It
stayed stayed with me as a intomy 20s Actually, I retired, I
played pro soccer, kind of likeSemi Pro soccer. And I retired
around age 23 and went toThailand for a month and just
was in silence in Thailand.
Yeah, took a Silent Retreat andwas a monk monastery. Yeah, the
Silent Retreat was 10 days, butI was at the monastery for about

(16:15):
a

month. Was that possible? Or some other it
was

for the most part, I wouldn't be a strict met
Vipassana, per se. It was at thewhat? Buddha Dharma center. suta
Tani, the south south ofThailand. Yeah. Really sweet.
You know, you pay 20 bucks.
Right. And it's food, lodgingand teachings. Yeah, these
people are, you know, justgiving it right. These are just
like, make it available. Yeah.

It's like an act of service for them. Yeah,
absolutely.

It was really amazing. You went, you

went deep there. That was a good
experience, amazing experience.

Amazing, amazing experience. I remember fighting
it the first few days, like Ishould, I'm young, I should be
out climbing rocks in the moviewith DiCaprio, you know,
whatever that was calling, orsomething. And then finally I'd
settled in, I'm like, this iswhere I'm at. I'm doing this. I
kept them silent. And I justreally loved it. Yeah, this is
good. So again, I think, youknow, something in me is prime

(17:11):
for this work. Whatever reason.
And I stuck with it with mythrough my 20s is always part of
my life. Even when I did improvcomedy. I remember at Second
City at trans Second City for acouple years in Detroit. They
asked me, level three, literallylevel three, my level is the
third level the class they go,Hey, why are you guys doing
this? Why are you studyingcoming? People like I want to be

(17:32):
on SNL. I want to be in this. Isaid, it's the yoga of comedy
and people are what hippie whatit looks like, No, it doesn't.

They said that you'll go comedy. That's what I
use that okay.

Like, this is the yoga of Kami. So it's still in
my life is around to age 27. Iwas really it was like, Oh, this
comedy is about being in themoment. It is about being
adaptable. You have an idea fora scene, but somebody else throw
something in, you have to dropyour idea, your idea dies, and
then you move into the nextidea, and you have to play. And
I said, this is not only a funthing to do, but it's an art

(18:03):
that really teaches me how tolive in the yogic sense.

Yeah, you have to be so present to be a good
improv person. Right? Yeah,yeah. So

yeah, I don't want to practice things that aren't.
They're taking me away fromthat. Right? It's part of why I
stopped acting, because I foundlike an acting you are willfully
going into the kind of the scarsof character and playing those
out. And I'm like, why am Imemorizing other people's
subconscious beliefs every dayand acting them out? And I'm

(18:31):
still working on mine. You know,right. So part of that after was
like, I don't really want to dothat anymore. And that's when
that was actually my third timegoing to India where I decided
drop acting, and really focus onwriting and producing. And
that's where that first filmcame from. Yeah, yeah. First
documentary, the

highest posts.
Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. You know,and you're in good company. I
mean, not to jump ahead too far.
I think we'll probably come backto this at the end. But, uh, you
know, having part of yourexperience start with mushrooms,
psychedelics, you know, you'vegot ROM das, PLP homes, you
know, everybody, it seems like alot of people, they go into the
spiritual path because of apsychedelic experience. You

(19:10):
know, I think that'sinteresting. And we'll come back
to that probably at the end.

Or maybe I went into psychedelics because I was
looking for spirituality,

right. It's a little bit of both. Yeah, it
opens you up. But you, you'realready you're already kind of
open to it.

I think. I think it's boy, it's like that helps,
like, unlock a little somethingto get you out of the fixed
patterns. And we were doing veryrecreationally not so
therapeutic. Right. Right. Iknow it had an effect.

Right. Let's still Yeah, it still gives you
that taste of like thetranscendent experience. Right.
I think he want more of that.

I think so. Yeah.
Yeah, that was my experience,too. And then I mean, I quickly
realized in college like oh,meditation compared with I would
meditate I was in a frat for alittle. A little while. Yeah. I
would meditate for half hour andthey would go to the next room
where they were just smokingweed for half hour and a half.
The different memo vibration.

(20:02):
Yeah, my apologies anyone that'sreally into weed but it doesn't
compare with the vibration thatyou get from meditating like it
doesn't, right? And I said okay,that's very clear to me now.
Like as a longer lifetimepractice meditation is key and I
pretty much had stopped smokingweed at that point anyway, so

yeah, more sustainable the went meditation.
Yeah, yeah, actually reminds meyou got a p Holmes where he
says, you know, when he beforehe got into meditation and all
that he thought that likeBuddhists, you know, especially
in the mountains in Tibet, orwhatever, we're just relaxing,
like on vacation. You know? Hedidn't know until he got into it
that they were like flying tospace or whatever, right? Pete
Holmes? The actor? Yeah, he'sreally into like ROM das and

Krishna das concert, really? The guy from
the couch.

His book, a comedy sex God is highly
recommended. I read it twice.
Wow.

(21:18):
Okay, so that's so you, you arefrom a young age open to this
stuff. Oh, yeah. And then what?
How did you end up in India forthe first time

acting coach here that I was with, she was taking
people to India, and I didn'tthink I would go and then it
just kind of hit me one day. Iwas like, Oh, my whole life has
been India. You know, some of mybest friends and the smells and
everything I grew up with someof them. I got I gotta go. So I
went. And that's where I wasintroduced to a nonde. My name
my guru call my goober somehowis a group trip is like 15

(21:48):
people, which was weird for meto go anywhere with 15. Really?
Yeah, like, but I loved it. Wejust had a blast. And all the
Dharma talks were always aroundsomebody like problem. Oh, yeah.
I love that, like using an issueto kind of go back to like the
road to Dharma or any of theseshows. To use somebody issue
someone's story to bring out thewisdom to me, it was so much

(22:09):
cooler than just a straighttalk. Right? So we would do a
lot of that, like, Adam, why areyou so angry? Right? And I was
like, because everyone's keepsaying the child is the best
child they've ever had. Like,how can it be always the best
child? Yesterday was the bestchild. And now Today's the best
time like you're all lying.
Let's stop lying. Yeah,mountains just laughing like,
Oh, here we go. Like we're gonnatalk about this. Yeah. A

(22:29):
spiritual bypassing this orsaying this is the best thing
and be like your anger at that.
Like, just let them write themhave that but don't have the
experience. Yeah, even ifthey're kidding them. You don't
need to go around to

changing that kind of dishonesty, so to speak
is harmless, right? It's ourbest try ever. Who cares?
Correct

is the best best sense that ever, you know, it's
kind of like life was this waspre Instagram. We were
instagramming to each other inlife, right? This is the best
child ever to swear. No.
Bullshit. That's a filter onthat.

That was what so much of that is about having
that experience in that place.
You know, it's so much more thanjust the chyron Yes,

that's true.
wasn't the best wasn't the best.

Out of the DJI expert.

I'm still holding on. wasn't

wasn't a problem probably was where's the
best choice? The one

I'm having right now? is the best guy ever. Dirty
Chai. And it's fantastic.

Yeah, you know, I had had a similar
experience. I mean, I my firsttime in India, I felt like I had
come home. Yeah, yeah. Like, Imean, as soon as I stepped into
the streets, I was in Chennai.
And there was like a festivalhappening on Monday night. And I
was like, This is the energyhere and everything the smells
and the people. Yeah, there's noplace like it. Yeah.

That's where you landed was Chennai. Yeah. Wow.
interesting place. Why? Whythere?

I wanted to go to Pondicherry. I wanted to
check out Oroville in Oroville.
Yeah. And so yeah, that was kindof the entry point. I flew from
Naples, Italy, to Chennai,India. Yeah. It was my prey
trip. Sort of knocked out. Butyeah, you know, and in
hindsight. Yeah. And I yeah, Iwent and I went to Pondicherry

(24:11):
and in Oroville. Yeah, I went tothe geodesic dome, the
meditation thing. Yeah.
Powerful. I had to, at thatpoint, the deepest meditation
I've had in that in that dome.
Really, it's like a spaceship.
You know that thing. I havenever been there and I've seen
it but it really is. It's sopowerful. They have a it's so
there's two levels. The firstlevel is literally like a
spaceship carved out of likemarble. You know, there's a

(24:33):
console's and like printinglights and stuff, I don't know.
And you go up this windingstairway into the top level. And
it's an empty room. And there'sa open I guess, circular opening
in the ceiling with lightshining down into this giant,
like crystal orb. So like, thelight kind of goes out into the
room. And you just sitmeditation isn't you know, it's
silent. And yeah, I mean, atthat point, I hadn't even had a

(24:54):
great meditation practice, but Ijust dropped right in, you know.
Interesting. Yeah. So I reckonAnd I mean, yeah, Orville is
interesting. What do you

what do you make of it now? Like in looking back?
Is it still like did that placereally have that for you? The
community? What do you think wasreally eliciting?

I think it was, I think it was the
structure of the community, thehistory, the tradition. I'm a
huge fan of Aurobindo, you know,the founder. And I really
appreciate and respect theirattempt to create like a utopian
society over there. I don't knowif they can work, but it seems
like they're making it work tosome extent. And, you know,
there was a weird like, I waspicking up on a weird energy
from the people a little bit insome cases, but uh, there was a

(25:34):
lot of anger. Okay. From a lotof the like, Western people who
are there. They their face ontheir faces anyways, they looked

at must be strange to see coming from New Yorker.

Well, yeah, it was nice. I was like, I feel
like

this is perfect.
We go meditate. We're fine withit.

But yeah, horrible. I recommend going at
least once. Yeah, that's great.

I'm fascinated by communities. That's a whole
nother topic. But just justpeople pushing the edge of like,
what it means to live incommunity is really interesting.

Yeah, me too.
Me too. And this desire to tryto find create, like a, some
kind of idealized like, Ito,almost utopian community? You
know, I find that interesting.
Yeah. Yeah. And, yeah, I think Ican go, we can go so wrong.
We've seen this many times withlike, wild, wild country or
whatever, you know, but I thinkthat's not a reason to give up
on the spiritual path. Forexample,

that's for sure.
Cuz I was gonna say, like, ourcurrent society has gone way,
way wrong. Totally. So what's,what do you mean? Like, we
should be trying other we shouldbe trying? Yeah. Like, this has
gone off the rails a little bit?
Like, no, no offense to all ofus. Right. But this is a little
off the rails, you know, like,we can't be an extractive
society for too much longer.
Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, it's, there's a lot of
challenges, you know, so goingback to the sort of theme of my
whole podcast, you know, it's,it's, um, it's trying to find
that vein of gold, you know,within maybe a lot of dense
rock, you know, and that's kindof that's kind of the entire the
goal focus. And so I've been,you know, focused on thinking
about a lot of the challengesthat we face as a humanity, you

(27:13):
know, right now, especially,obviously, there's a climate
change is affecting us, andthere's inequality and poverty
and all these things. And so Ipersonally think that
spirituality can be, you know,instrumental and addressing a
lot of that, you know, on a massscale. And so, what I'm
interested in exploring a littlebit, too, is, you know, two
things, how do you get spiritualpractices to more people, so we

(27:36):
can talk about that? Sure. And,you know, how do you avoid a lot
of the pitfalls that seem to belike part of the past, you know,
like spiritual ego, or, youknow, these these, you know,
maybe following like, aperverted guru, or, you know,
all these different things thathappen to people, you know,
like, I'm curious, maybe we'llstart there, like, what do you
have any thoughts about how to,you know, stay kind of like

(27:57):
focused or you know, to avoidthese these pitfalls, like
spiritual bypassing and all thatstuff? Sure.

Forgiveness number one, because it'll happen to us
all. So absolutely,

humanity. I mean, acknowledging people's
humanity is so you show you

because we will go up and down I think right on it
and this and if we can't forgiveourselves, and for what we've
our path, you know, ourfailures, then we have no chance
of then taking the next stepinto like, the man, we really
are the woman we really are.

So forgiving yourself, but also other people
is that Yeah, never I mean,

for sure yourself, for your own transgressions and
your own, like, Oh, wait, youknow, like, otherwise, you
develop a spiritual ego, toprotect the fact that you've
failed and not want to own it,right? That's what I think goes
on. Oh, I have an identityalready as this, this newly
created spiritual meme that nowis afraid of losing that new

(28:51):
identity that I think wasstronger than the last one I
had. And you gotta go, Well, no,you still need to own up to
things you're doing incorrectlyor people you've wronged or
whatever relationships where Iwasn't as honest as I should be,
and could be in some way. Youcall yourself spiritual. It's
like I am human too. Yes. Icould have been more honest.
Right? Yes, I agree with you.
I've made mistakes. So I thinktaking responsibility is a big

(29:13):
way to, and forgiving oneselfand just being honest about
where you've messed up is a goodway to avoid the spiritual ego,
if you will. That's

a good point.
Yeah. Yeah. But forgiveness isnot easier. I mean, especially
forgiving other people. I myexperience has been, it's, yeah,
it's a it's a very complex kindof intense emotion that can be

Yeah, really, I guess. I like Michael Beckwith
talks a lot about just releasingresentment first, rather than
forgiving the person.

So it's a multi step process. Yeah, it's
easier to let go of yourresentment

of them than it is to quote unquote, forgive them
because they're letting go theresentment has nothing to do
with the actual act of what theydid right or wrong, forgiving it
but um, I don't want to hold onthe resentment part anymore.
Yeah, I don't want to hold theanger part anymore. Let's start
there. Yeah, I remember justjust five months ago, just
saying I don't want to be angryanymore. And boom, then the

(30:11):
tears came, okay, that thehealing started the forgiveness
started for another someone Ihad been in relationship with. I
just had to say, I don't want tobe angry anymore, which is I
don't want to hold theresentment anymore. Yeah. Why
did I want to hold it before? Idon't know, probably because it
helped me feel better about myposition. Right. You know, it's
nice to resent someone that Idon't have to take on, again,
the responsibility which we werejust talking about,

there's a vulnerability to I think, like,
if you're not, if you'reforgiving somebody, you're
opening yourself up in a verytender way, right to that person
to being hurt or disappointed.
You're having to acknowledgelike the messiness of human
relationships. Yeah, it's it's alot. It can be a lot.

Yeah. It's not.
Yeah, it's a good practice,right? It's a good way to avoid
these other pitfalls, right.
Forgiveness itself. The I mean,the other ones, you talked about
perverted guru, so to speak, orI think the good way to watch
out for that is just trust yourintuition. Don't if you feel
something's off, like honorthat, you know,

yeah, but how do you know like, sometimes it
can be hard to know. So So a bigpart of the spiritual process,
as I'm sure you've experiencedis sort of releasing,
conditioning or releasing yourown issues, right. And so how do
you determine if something isyour intuition? Like
legitimately your intuition? Oryou're triggered? And you think

(31:35):
that's your intuition? Yeah,

practice, I guess.
Yeah. And then forgiveness foryourself again, if if all right,
I think that's my intuition, youmake a step and you see after
like, was it or was it just atrigger and but you got to start
playing just like I have acompost outside and garden.
Like, I'm stepping into it fromthe beginning saying this is
learning process, notnecessarily to make vegetables
that are economically, right.

(31:56):
Let me just learn so when I thefirst mistake I made, which is
bought a compost that wastotally wrong for the city. I
had to just laugh how like, thatwas $150 mistake right off the
bat. So maybe that's a goodbeginning.

Um, yes, that part where you're getting to is
like this American tendency, Ifeel, to want to do everything
the best and like to be a expertright away. And I think this is
a lot of the things that get usinto trouble in the spiritual
path, right is like wanting tobe like, Oh, I got to be, you
know, a good Yogi or a good,whatever. And then that prevents
you from acknowledging, maybeyou know that you made a

(32:31):
mistake, or that, you know,you're not that you're not
perfect.

Yeah. Or like, you know, in this, I don't know, I
mean, people talk aboutexperiences on the spiritual
path. And maybe people want thatexperience someone else's had or
that Kundalini awakening,someone had level three, level
four, whatever the means. AndI've made a very concerted
effort to not need to have myjourney be like someone else's,

(32:55):
yes. So I think that could bevery helpful for people like,
you don't have to have theKundalini awakening to say your
spiritual. In fact, you don'teven have to practice any of
this to be spiritual, right?
You're kind human that helpsanother you're being spiritual,
if spirituality is enacted inwhat you're doing as a human
meaning, like if you're beingkind and joyful and serving
others, and that's an Act to me,that's an act of spirituality.

Absolutely. So let's not get so hung up on
trying to have like a Kundaliniawakening or whatever.

Okay, why is that the thing, right? A lot of
people have had that are nuts. Imean, not nuts, meaning, like,
still haven't found the wisdom,right? You can have you can go
on the highest pass on amotorcycle and throw it all
away. And not practice any of itdoesn't just because I went over
the highest road in the world ona motorcycle. And just because I
plugged my own movies throughconversation doesn't write. Very

(33:45):
nice. Well done. Well done.
Right? Doesn't mean I'm apompous promoter, right? Or a
self proclaimed genius, right?
at times. I am. Right. So youhave moments correct? your
listeners that are following meknow that I'm a genius. I have
to say it. But she had last

year talking about, like, hardware you're
talking about is this thing thatJoe young Trungpa says, which is
a lot of people on a spiritualpath. They like to collect
experiences almost like you'recollecting statues in India, you
know, like, Oh, my God, well, Ihave all these I have this
collection now I have thislibrary now. And that means that
I'm level whatever, you know, orYeah, and it's like all its

(34:23):
attachment to some kind ofidentity, the spiritual
identity.

Yeah. Because I mean, you've been at a software
right and you already and you'veseen people have probably
Kundalini awakenings and bodythriving and moving and crazy.
Just because your experienceisn't like that. Like who's to
say that's the right way likeyours might be a slower birthing
things that you're maybe moregrounded in it and who knows,

(34:47):
because that's what you're meantto kind of be? Well, that's

what I've noticed, too, is that everybody,
everybody has their own veryunique expression of like
Kundalini rising or or, youknow, whatever that energy is,
you know, it might come out andOne person that is their body
moving or, you know, whatever itis, but yours might be more
subtle or more deep. You know,you don't you never know. You
don't know what another person'sexperiences.

Oh, no, you don't know why better or worse? Yeah.
So that's a way you know, to, toavoid some of the spiritual ego
and some of the trap of evenfollowing a guru. If you're
still striving in that Americanway to get somewhere you might
not listen to your intuition,because of this drive to get to
this utopia or placespirituality, you think that

(35:31):
things no longer suffering? Isthere? No, it's all still there.
We still feel the feelings likeit's not going away the Buddha,
you know, I say this, like, whathe wasn't saying emptiness like,
right, empty. The Buddhistsaren't really saying like,
sensations, the problem, eventhough if you got rid of
sensation, it would cut off someof the suffering. It's not the

(35:51):
issue. I have a lot ofdiscussions with like the
hardcore of apostle. I'm like,it's not the problem. Yeah, it's
there's other places in thewheel, where you can cut off the
suffering, meaning yourattachment to it, you can be
with it all like you. I'm aninclusive person, like, let me
feel the feelings in life. Letme smell the smells. Let me feel
my body. It's got to beexpansive, not empty. So empty,

(36:13):
empty, empty of separation ishow the Buddha that that's what
the Buddha was really saying.
Okay. Thank you for Yeah, youfind that with the Buddha was
really not empty, empty ofseparation. Yeah. That's not me
teaching that I

said that.
Right. Right. Yeah. Well, youwhat you're talking about,
though, is, I think thismisconception in the spirit,
being spiritual is being like,enlightened and being of light.
But actually, it's, it's aboutbeing more human and being more
like, accept in the body andmessy and it's everything right?
It's, yeah, it's not justinclusive. Yeah, it's inclusive.
It's the whole experience. Yeah.

Expected, it has to include, right. So it can
include that and it doesn't meanenough to be too attached to
that part. Right. Right. Andgoing through a tough time,
right? You're allowed to gothrough a tough time as a
spiritual person, you're allowedto have what you know what I
mean, you're allowed to, like,have months of quote, unquote,
not a good practice or whatever,you know, I can, or not

(37:07):
meditating for two months,you're allowed to do, right? and
observe and not just be tooattached to like, what you
thought you were or we'resupposed to be you're allowed to

write because there's no hurry to be somewhere
else.

I don't think so.
Yeah. I mean, talk to me nottomorrow. On Monday, on the real
Monday, the real Monday when allthe emails are flying. I feel
that way. Yeah. God feels thatway in the society. Yeah, it
really does.

Yeah. Because we're already I mean, from a
spiritual standpoint, we'realready sort of perfect right
now in this moment, right.

Yeah, I think I'd say so. Yeah. I mean, you look
great. Thanks.

Okay, so if we're already perfect, or our
you know, we're alreadyspiritually sort of like, pole.
Let's say that. You know, why?
Why practice? I don't know.
Yeah. Because it's fun.

No, I mean, I think on some level, there's a,
like, I was called as a kiddidn't want to read Gandhi's
book or to meditate. Like, Ithink we all seek more
liberation. Yeah. We seek tounravel a little bit more.
Right.

So you could say that life has like the seed
of evolution inside of it. Isthat one way to look?

Absolutely. Well said. So it's not so much like,
I know why. Or to get something.
It's just this is living isthis. This is like, evolving, if
you want to call evolving has todo with kind of open up you
study a lot, right? You lovegoing to grad school? Yeah. All
the

time. I'm going to do grad school twice.
Yeah,

twice. That's amazing. So it's like, Why?
Because you know, you want tolearn the use of learning. You
love learning? Yeah, that'sprobably why you're doing this
podcast. Absolutely. You'd likeI love learning. I love the idea
of freedom. A lot of my filmstend to be around free, right?
Why is that? I don't know. Just,you know, maybe past lives who
the heck knows. But I know weall want freedom. I mean, look

(39:26):
at the political society and howit's grown for 2000 years how
we've edged closer towardfreedom, right? True freedom,
true freedom, true freedom on aninner sense, but also political
freedom. Yeah, I call it that.
And why is it that we do that? Ithink inherently that's how we
want to be and how we want toexpress so yeah, eventually we
realize where we are whole andperfect and, and that we could

(39:51):
have just sat back and acceptedourselves in a beautiful way
right, but sometimes takes somework to get to that ability to
do that.

Yeah, it's like, it's like to truly relax,
you have to work hard.

It's like, like a sport. Sometimes you have to
practice the skills so that whenyou're out in the field, it's
effortless. Even though there'sa ton of effort, right, the
skills come automatically. Yeah.
So freedom is inherent. Butsometimes because of what we're
born into, we need practices tohelp us remember what's natural.
Yeah, I think that's right.
What's going on?

I think annonces something about, you
know, choo, choo effortlessnesscomes out of effort.

As an app issue.

Like one, yeah,

I'm on here.
You're the problem. How manytimes have I been upset at my
guru? Oh, yeah.

It's definitely a dance. It's great.
It's great.

Ah, he just sits back and was like, I'll meditate
for two hours just on a trigger.
And then like, you know, see himlater in the afternoon. He used
the same the whole time doesn'tcare if you're triggered him?

Yeah. Okay.
Yeah, I'm still in a triggerright now. No problem. No
problem.

It could take 10 years right now. Welcome back.

Right. Right.
Yeah. Yeah, I think but butanother reason to practice maybe
is you're reducing your ownsuffering, hopefully. Yes. Yes.
Over time, and then maybe as aresult, reducing the suffering
of people around you.

It's a beautiful intention. Yeah, I think so.
Yeah. What could be better thanthat? Yeah. Okay.

They resolved it.

Again, why take an hour? Right. Do what we could
do. In 35 minutes. Yeah. I mean,

but do you think I mean, I ask you this,
though. Do you think thespiritual path is hard or easy?
Or is that a false dichotomy?

Um, I think it's hard to not be on a spiritual
path.

It's harder.
Yeah.

Meaning, like, living these in this society
time. Without spirituality. Tome, we've seen like, incredibly
hard. Yeah. Without thoseskills. So let's just call
spirituality like skills andtools that help us maneuver.
This dance of like being in thephysical body. Yeah. Yeah, I

(42:10):
guess that's a new definition. Ijust made up spiritual. Alright,
we'll go with that. If that'sthe case, like, how do you not
use have spirituality in thislife? Like, it makes it really
hard? I mean, how is that personover there dealing with
disappointment? If they don'thave a practice? They're
probably not

right. They're avoiding feeling it probably
right now meeting or something

drinking? Who knows you're acting out with
someone else right inrelationship that they actually
want. Boom, projecting. Yeah,crew, it's a map crash boom.
Right. So I think life is reallyhard without tools. It's a shame
that we haven't had a lot of thetools baked into society. But
that's why I think what you'retalking about in spirituality is
growing in leaps and boundsbecause people want tools for

(42:53):
living.

Yeah, yeah, I think that's right. Yeah. So
Peter Russell has this concept.
There was a revolution, hethinks that we're entering into
almost like a new revolutionaryperiod of human development. We
had the Industrial Revolution,we had the information age, he
thinks there's a wisdomrevolution coming that's as
transformational is forhumanity, as those two were. And
I like that idea. You know, Ithink it's coming. And it's very

(43:17):
early, maybe it's not evenlydistributed, so to speak. And so
I'm curious, maybe we can talkabout this, then. How do we get
spiritual practices to morepeople, you know, how do you
reach more people?

Yeah, that was your earlier question. I mean,
for me, I you story. Yeah.
That's like my method forwhatever reason like that. It's
like, Oh, cool. I can makemovies, documentaries,
documentaries, specifically,because this isn't fiction.
These are real human goingthrough life, I think is a great
way to blend in teachingspirituality. To show others

(43:50):
that it's possible, somepossibility, and how do you show
possibility? Through film,that's a medium that everyone
loves right now, film seriesdocumentary, I mean, Buddha
Dharma Sangha, right, Buddhameaning the possibility of
enlightenment or the possibilityof freedom. So showing the
Buddha you know, showing thatit's possible through other

(44:13):
characters in the show, DharmaOh, and having the teachings in
their Sangha Oh, okay. That theother way I think would be
having people around Sanghapeople that share this stuff. So
if we want to share it more ifwe want to accelerate it, so to
speak, you know, for me, like Isaid, film and such, but I think
these taking myself out of theequation, I think the actual

(44:37):
bigger bigger thing would becommunity, because we have
access to the internet, we havethe teachings, the pre
accessible for people now, theapps and this but community, we
need people around us that arespeaking the same language that
are supporting our practice thatcan hold space for us when we're
dicks and and

it's a reinforce that honestly, you
were talking about earlier.
Right? Yeah, to keep you honest.

Yeah, keep you honest. Let you be honest, you
know? I mean, you can be honestanyway. But

yeah, this is this is a big part of what I
love about your work is thatyou're reaching so many people
through this medium. So it'spowerful through

film and such.
Yeah, yeah, I think it ispowerful. I mean, he'll has a
very good example of a lot ofpeople that respond and say, I
got sick, and I watched yourmovie, and I saw possibility,
right? What's my diagnosis? Ididn't have to go into the
prognosis they gave me I saw apossibility for some other
outcome with my illness. Andanother way to go about it. And
that's all sometimes people needis possibility. And then seeing

(45:32):
maybe there's a Facebook groupand there's other people going,
sure, okay, cool. Or wrote theDharma like, they're, they're
opened up to like, oh, there'sother people being courageous
and seeking freedom amidstcraziness of India putting their
life on the line, because thisis important to them. No, I'm
not alone. Oh, that's cool.
That's helpful. Yeah. reallyhelpful when you know, you're

(45:53):
not alone with like, these crazythoughts, so to speak on this
crazy desire to want somethingdifferent in our lives?

Yeah, I think Yeah. Do you hear from a lot of
people that have seen thosefilms? You know, what do they
say

tonight? Yeah, with the rota Dharma, it's cool,
because the course that's alongwith it, like people dive deep.
Yeah, of course, it probablyeven the wrong word. It's kind
of like this immersiveexperience, because there's
meditations and chapters in theepisodes. People that really do
that. They make changes in theirlife. They get inspired by it.
This is Yeah, they were ready.
It's kind of like me when I wasgoing to college and someone

(46:26):
said, here's a meditation tape.
Like, I was like, yeah, peoplethat do that they were ready for
it. Anyway. I don't take creditthat like oh, our thing opened
them up. They were totallyready. And then you put
something in front of them thatspeaking their language. They go
sweet. You just that's what I'vebeen feeling. Yeah. And oh, now
I know. It's okay. I guess toleap.

Yeah, your films are like, when's the first
time you go skydiving? The filmis like the guy who's hugging
you. As you're falling. That'sgreat. tandem tandem.

Yeah. But tandem guide to spirituality. Yeah, you
don't feel like Yeah. Oh,they've done it before. They
didn't die. Right. Crazy orsomething? Yeah. And they take
me with them. Right. Cool. Andthen the next time like, I'll go
alone, now I'm gonna move toVancouver. Someone like I
watched it. I moved van. Ireally like oh, yeah, I guess
that's what you're Yeah, he did.
What was in Vancouver? for them.

(47:18):
They just needed to getsomewhere that was more West. I
think the mindset they were ingo west, you know, to maybe a
more liberal mindset or whatevermeant to them. Yeah, I forget.

Vancouver's pretty spiritual to it. I think
so it feels like communitythere. I think I would think so.
Yeah.

And the mountains and nature based. So yeah. And
then with heal, you hear a lotwhen it comes to illness, and
people having possibility. And Ido a meditation on heal
Instagram, every Wednesday, andso some people right into that,
like, I watched the movie, I doAdams meditations because
they're igtv, I went and gotthese books. And so we've

(47:54):
created a little more resourceswhere people can have a little
bit of community and a littlebit of grounding and be on a
path. But then I have to say theillness. path is a tough one.
Yeah, and one thing we'reprobably lacking more than
anything in that area is like ageneral practitioner point
person to kind of handhold youon your path. The the medical

(48:16):
guru, yeah, that would walk withyou in spirituality. We have a
lot of gurus and teachers thatare walk with you along the
path. Not so much in the health.
There's a lot of like modalitiesthat people are great at, but
who's like the point person inthe middle that says, Let me
help you find the right ones andtake you along? that's a that's
a missing piece in health care.

Yeah, yeah. I feel like health care and
education are two places wherewe can use a lot more
integration, a lot morespiritual sort of influence. You
know, and I see it happeningwith certain people I know, like
nurses, a few doctors, someeducators, but yeah, I feel I
hope that that will continue togrow.

I think so.

Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Beautiful. I mean, yeah, Ithink right now, I feel like we
got to find more ways to reachpeople. And you know, and yet,
like you're saying to make thesepractices, like, more
digestible, more accessible,like, you know, bite size baby
steps, you know, it's notdoesn't have to be flying to
India, or you know, doing it apossum or whatever you can, you
know, you can just tune itInstagram or whatever. I mean,
that sounds great, too.

Yeah, but you don't have to exactly yeah,
seeing something. Um, yeah, Ithink more accessible through
films and then can't like justhaving people around you. So how
do you do that? Like, how do youmake sure that there's other
people around I guess, you ifyou're someone listening, that
has a practice. Don't be afraidto maybe open your door? Yeah.

(49:34):
And say you guys want tomeditate together or do
something for free or I don't beout of the closet with it. Mm
hmm. I meditate. Yeah. You know,I know guys that had a Kundalini
experience 25 years ago, didn'ttell their family would go in
the basement and meditate NewYorkers, right? Yeah. These were
New Yorkers like Brooklyn guysthat were like I had this

(49:56):
Kundalini experience. 25 yearsago, I would meditate in my
basement Yeah, you're like, it'stotally normal. Like, it's fine.
But like, for that familywasn't. So be be open with and
tell people about it like you'renot gonna get scorned.

Right and the courage. I mean, there is, maybe
it sounds a little funny, butthere's courage and coming out
that way, especially, you knowif you're from Brooklyn or
whatever. Yeah. And then that Ithink that inspires people. I
think people will see that andthey'll think, oh, that you
know, then I can do that. Right.
You know, it's not strange or

what? Don't you make a big deal? Yeah, I

meditate. Of course, of course, of course.
Doesn't everybody?

I inquire about myself. I'm interested in
freedom. What? Who? Wouldn't? Ihave a job and a family? Right.
It's part of life. Yeah, this iswhat we do. Right. Make it?
normalize it in some way. Yeah,I think that that would help.

I mean, I've had that experience. I felt
like, at some point, I had tosort of almost come out and say,
Hey, you know, I'm spiritual.
You know, it's kind of funny.
Yeah. I mean, I'm not to, Idon't mean to, you know, to
minimize the coming out processfor, you know, for homosexuals
or other other people, you know,trans and all that. I mean,
that's obviously a whole otherlevel, but, but still, I think

(51:06):
there's like a stigma. Andthat's part of the motivation of
this podcast is like, overcomingthat stigma,

right? It's not ridiculous, right? Right. Yeah,
yeah, there's the stigma of it'sridiculous, right? But some of
it is

cuz you're gonna lose touch, you're gonna
become escapist, you're gonna belike, you know, woowoo or
whatever, you know,

there is a fear of that like, like, even if you do
a psychedelic, or if you go offto India, that you won't be able
to when you come back, have alot of people I think it's a
genuine fear. Right. Right, thenright, I'll lose grounding.

Right? Uh, maybe you should usually. I
mean, it's interesting, becauseI feel like they're, you're
touching on a little bit ofattention. That is tricky,
because I feel like part of theprocess of overcoming our sort
of capitalist industrial kind oflifestyle, that's, you know,
destroying the planet is formore people to say, like, Well,

(51:57):
wait, maybe I'm gonna check outour society. You know, I think
that could be positive, too. Sothere's a little bit of a
tension there. Maybe?

Yes. within us? I think so. Yeah. And I mean, my
experience of spirituality hasmade me more grounded.

Yeah. And hopefully it should obviously
not practicing properly. Yeah.

But I understand people's fears too, because
there's so much ridiculous.
People that go have anexperience and come back and
think they're enlightened. Andlike you said, the spiritual ego
is abound, and you don't want tobe one of those. Or if you want
to be a yoga teacher, right? Youknow, that was a fun story. Cuz
I'm training there with a nonone on one for a six, seven
weeks and just meditating withhim by the river every morning,

(52:37):
and we're talking and I'mrecording and writing it down.
And then one day says, Hey, willyou teach my, my own class? I'm
supposed to teach some peopletoday. I'm like a non I don't
want to be a yoga teacher. Imean, it's too cliche. I mean,
la um, you know, I do act inyour writing. And I don't want
to be yoga teacher, all the ego.
I just don't want to be thatright. He's like, I'm not asking

(52:59):
you to be a yoga teacher andjust saying what you teach my
class. Then you that's the coolthing. Like he's very simple
like that. Right? You're gettingin your head, man. Right? I just
said what you do this for me?
Like a favor.

Yeah. That's when having a teacher can help.
They can kind of, you know, callyou out on things and simplify
things for you. Yeah, like Iremember rides me of one time I
was there. We were all doingthis river run. He likes to do
this thing. Yeah, run in theriver up in the Himalayas. It's
pretty, it can be pretty hairy.
I mean, it's, you know, you'rerunning on these slippery rocks.
And it's like, it's themountain. And so the first time
I was going, you know, we wereall getting ready. And, and I

(53:34):
was asking him all thesequestions, you know, is a
dangerous I'm gonna fall ifyou've gotten her it, you know?
And he was like, just go on therun.

No, I know. I have a little experience that because
when we just went to the beach,right, alright, should I bring
it up? Right? Do I need myglasses? Should I bring my
phone? For me? It was a littleweird because I go to the beach
every day. And I have my my mything. Right? Yours an inquiry.
you inquire.

I inquire. And you know, I'm a little bit my
head in my head sometimes

trying to join the club. Right? He also he called
me out on that. And he's like,just something my class my Okay,
you know, and then I stopped theclass. He's like, how was it?
Michael? I really liked it.
Okay, teach my next one. Yeah, Ithought I thought you might, you
know, why don't you teach? Youknow, and so that, so that I
thought, yeah,

that's another huge benefit of having a teacher
or they can really see you isthey can see the potential in
you that you can't see. Right?
Yes. And that was my experience,especially with him. Oh, yeah.
Yeah.

Was he seeing any?
You know, I showed

up? Is he seeing Boise See, what could he
have seen me? Oh, my God. Whatwas he saying? You know, I
showed up. I think I've talkedabout this before, but I showed
up like, I'm expecting to do onejob, which was work on
technology and the website andall these things. And then there
was a kind of a change of plansand I was going to be teaching

(54:52):
in the trainings, you know, andgreat, great opportunity. But
you know, at the time I wasthinking, I don't know if I'm
ready for that, you know, Imean, At that point, I had done
a bunch of trainings andeverything. But, uh, I've been
teaching for years. But still,you know, and, you know, but I
saw that he knew on some levelthat I could and so that gave me
the confidence. And then I foundout that I could, you know, I

(55:13):
think, Yeah,

I think so too. I think we create all these like
our YT this and that, once Ihave this, that I can especially
again, you love grad school, andyou're used to getting this
before you go to that, right.
And another friend of mine isfeeling the same people won't
take you seriously until youhave XYZ. And I'm like, I don't
know, why don't you just go dothe thing before you have to be
legitimate mised in front of thequote, unquote, peers. And that

(55:38):
brings me back to the whole,like, coming out of the closet
thing, which friends of minethat are very successful
filmmakers, Doc filmmakers wouldsay to me, they're like, I
admire, like, you're just sofree that you make this kind of
content. Right? I'm like, whatkind of content like, like, you

(55:59):
know, spiritual stuff. I'm like,I just make what I like to make.
Yeah, you know, that like, and Igo, where I'm kind of drawn and
in the project. And I don'tthink twice about the fact that
it's like spiritual as if I'm insome, like, kind of subset of
it, where it's taboo. And theybeing like, Academy nominated.

(56:21):
People couldn't come out totheir friends that they wanted,
that they made spiritual filmsor wanted to, or were spiritual.
I'm like, Really? I didn'trealize there was that stigma in
Hollywood, that somehow you'renot as legit. You know, like,
will cnn still hire me to doright to do their work? Also, if
I also did a spiritual film, I'mlike, you really worry about

(56:45):
that. I was blown away. Likeyou're nominated for an Academy
Award. Like,

that's a pretty nice calling card. Yeah,
that's, that's a level of powerto Yeah, like some level,

you think that having done a spiritual film
takes that away? Suddenly,that's the weird fear of like,
oh, I'll become ridiculous.

Right. Right.
And I feel like you're touchingon maybe, like, the most
important thing in a way. Whatis this? Yeah, only 45 minutes
later? No, I I do feel likethere's a way in which not just
in Hollywood, but in likebusiness and industry,
everything. People have a thingthey want to do, or they they

(57:21):
want to be more authentic andmore true to themselves, but
they don't because of a fear ofbeing judged, or they're gonna
lose an opportunity. And I feellike if everyone would just do
the thing that they want to do,like, just forget about the
repercussions forget about whatpeople think the whole world
would change, you know? Yeah,

cuz there's probably more people that want
to do that, then totally. Wethink everyone else is some
thing else. Yeah, it'severyone's hiding behind the
curtains.

Yeah, everyone's playing it safe. And
we got to stop playing. Yeah,that's how I

feel. Be open with the projects you want to do.
Right? Yeah, get a spiritualfilm. So what Yeah, it's great.
Every film is spiritual andtechnical. That's the thing. I
kind of bring the ridiculous outof right. What do you mean
spiritually mean? Because it hadmeaning and inspired people. And
it wasn't so driven on the sameold archetypes of the prince get
to the princess. Yeah, I know,hollywood likes to like repeat

(58:16):
itself and do what works so thatI can turn out money I get Sure.
Okay, it's gonna do that. Butyou can go over here and do ones
that are different. Right? Andoh, but Will I lose this thing?
Right. Hopefully you will, to behonest.

Maybe we'll have fewer sequels. Yeah,
remakes. Yeah, if we could dothis first.

Yeah, I would jump out. Like you said, like, if
everyone showed their cards,right. Wait a second. We all
want to make some cool stuff.

I think it would change the world would
change the world. Yeah.

Maybe there's that fear of if we all go start
making good things than thesethan everyone else gonna laugh
them. Keep making the otherstuff, crush it in the economy,
right areas, right, this weirdfear of like, being outside that
everyone will laugh at you.
Everyone will laugh at you. Andthe whole world won't change.

Right. Right.
Like, you'll be the only one andthen you'll Yeah, totally.
Right. I felt that way. We'veall felt that way. Probably at
some point. Yeah. Yeah. And whatabout the GDP? You know, what's
gonna happen to that?

I don't know, man.
I'm not sure. You mean, thegross the ghp ghp gross
happiness product might go up?
Yeah. So that's what you know,that's the longest answer to
like, what can we do? Yeah, Ilove it to spread and help each
other is like to be more openabout it. whatever profession
you're in, like, talk about it,integrate it,

right where your mala beads to the office,
you know,

do it. Or if you don't want to be so ridiculous,
if that's ridiculous, at least.
Why not let people know like,what you're going through in
life, or that you are maybemeditating or you're trying to
become a better person or thatyou'd like to How can we make
this business actually moresustainable? Or like just even

(01:00:03):
like within our business? How dowe treat our employees better?
Like, could we have a consciousyou? I kind of want my company
be more nice. I don't know, youknow, whatever it is. Yeah. It's
okay to have those thoughts.
Yeah, that you know what, Idon't know if profit is the most
important thing anymore, right,which is blasphemy. And a lot of
it's blasphemy right to say,What if we didn't put that first

(01:00:26):
and said, Maybe we should paypeople more or just not going a
different way of doing it?

Jayadev Woodford (01:00:32):
Yeah, yeah, this reminds me of. Lately, I've
been reading a lot of thisauthor dubbed Patnaik, who's an
Indian scholar, and businessman,and he has all these books that
are beautiful about the Indianapproach to business. And it's
like, he has this model whereyou treat every business
interaction, like a yoga, youknow, like a fire ceremony. And
so you're imagining that you'resort of like making an offering

(01:00:54):
into the fire, which is yourbusiness and whatever you're
offering into the businessworld. And then, as a result,
you're getting back, you know,some kind of compensation, you
know, is this more, you know, hekind of breaks down the way that
the entire world is structuredaround this sort of European
approach to business. And if wehad more of an Indian approach
to business, maybe what you'retalking about, you know,

(01:01:14):
elevating human values, youknow, putting other things about
profit, you know, would be morepopular.

Adam Schomer (01:01:20):
So he's saying make, like, make your business
an offering, so to speak,

kind of, yeah, or your approach to your like,
what you're doing in yourbusiness is like an offering,
and you're making an offering tosomebody and then the person on
the other side of thattransaction. It just has the
same approach. And so then itbecomes more like, an elevated
like, sort of spiritual type ofBaba, you know, sweet. Yeah. So
anyway, so I've been reading alot lately. That's on my mind.

You like to learn, I like to learn? And what's my,
what's my offering in thispodcast now offering people?

Yeah, you're offering your wisdom?

I hope so. The experience, maybe possibility,
maybe a little bit inspiration?

Yeah. Like if you can do it like anybody,

I guess what I would say, is given Detroit,
Michigan, right, Midwestern kid?
Absolutely. I didn't study film.
Yeah, I was a science based kid.
You know, I didn't have a planfor life. I just kept making a
few decisions. And I continue todo so that like, aligned with
like, my heart, I didn't want toget a job after college. And
it's not because I had money.

(01:02:17):
This is like I could do it.
Like, I couldn't go to the JPMorgan's and blah, blah, blah. I
was just like, I followed myheart and it helped me Help me
like just have a strength and atrust, that there's other ways
to make a life. And my my, mynephew kind of summed that up
because he just went to college.
And he's a very, like,emotionally, like, intellectual

(01:02:40):
or emotionally mature kid forhis age, I think, cuz I'm like,
I didn't really talk like that.
When I was your age, you know, Iwas still drinking and doing
trash.

That's it.
That's the new generation. I

think it is.
They've grown up with more yoga,in their vernacular and uncles
and stuff that go to India,right. I didn't have the uncle
that went to India. But he said,like, I have a very three
different uncles, me and mybrother, he's like, you, you
make movies in LA and go toIndia and all this. My, my other
brother does, like mortgages andvery successful. And as a
family. In Michigan, my otherbrother just kind of does what

(01:03:10):
he wants and like, not really atall thinking about career, this
is just more kind of, of servicewhere it needs to be it's just a
totally different form of life,most people wouldn't understand.
He's like, I have really, itshowed me a lot of different
models of living. That is notthe way America puts it. Right.
You can live life a lot of ways.

(01:03:32):
I'm like, that's really cool tohave that growing up. Yeah. And
to know that, like, just, you'lldo what's your your way?

Yeah. What's great to hear, too, it sounds
like what you're saying is, ifyou just follow your heart,
things will work out.

I don't know if I said that.

That's gonna be the quote on the cover.

Things don't always work out. You follow your
heart?

What does it mean to work out anyway?

That's what I mean. Yeah, people like but it
didn't work out.

He said, Well, you didn't die so far.

We're all gonna die. So Chad, I don't know what
you're implying. But I'm gonnabe immortal. Because I followed
by, meaning that I'm there thebenefit of even like, following
your heart just starts to helpyou in habit, a, a being of
faith, a being of trust, and abeing of more in flow with the
mystery of things rather thanI'm gonna like, you know, do

(01:04:23):
what's expected or what I'mafraid of, so to speak. So to me
working out isn't the end goalto be working out is like that,
oh, I've built a muscle of beingable to kind of keep stepping in
doesn't mean like my bankaccount full. Right? I know what
I mean, like or that I'veachieved some success or not,
because four years ago, I wastotally broke. And so what would

(01:04:45):
you say didn't work out for me?
Right? No, because at thatmoment, I'm like, you love
yourself regardless of like,your knee is broken. You have
nothing in your bank account.
You just broke up with somebody,you have no place to live. And
I'm like, this is where youpractice dude. This is where you
just totally love yourself andare Happy for no reason. Yeah,
this is where you do it, youknow? Yeah, it's quote unquote
not working out. That to me ismore like what you get from

(01:05:08):
follow your heart. Yes, you getthat?

Yes. You build a muscle you build a muscle.
Yeah, it's it's kind of like youstart to have the experience
that Krishna is teaching Arjunain the Bhagavad Gita, which is
that no experience is too bigfor your soul to handle.

That's wonderful.
Yeah. So I'm, I'm in in withthose guys. Yeah, you're

right there on that same level with Krishna.

Would you say I was ending with earlier? Didn't
you put me in? Listen? Did Iforget? That was great. It felt
really nice.

Yeah, no, that's, that's, that's
beautiful. Alan Watts was one ofthose guys. Ronda Rousey. Yeah,
you're right. Yeah, I mean, Ilove this reminds me of this
quote to have. You know, TerenceMcKenna. Right? I do. Yeah. He
said that if you jump into theabyss, yeah, you'll land on a
feather bed. I just like the wayhe didn't.

He also said that mushrooms are aliens. Yes, he
was very much into that. I lovethat. When I read that I read
one of his books early on. Ithought that was so cool.
Because intelligence travels inthe spores through space. And
that, like you ingest thesemushrooms, and like you have
communication, so what's to say?
Like alien intelligencecouldn't? Right speak through a
food? Right? And chemicalinteraction? That's, I love

(01:06:22):
that.

Yeah. Well, that is all you know, that
raises the question of like,what is an alien? Like, we're
all just life forms of theuniverse.

What is next park?
I got

to eat it up.

(01:06:58):
Well, let me so I asked all myguests this question. If
somebody who didn't practiceyoga came to you, and they asked
you what is yoga? What wouldyour answer be?

I would say what you want to know. And we'll
start from there. And then like,Okay, look at their desire, look
at their, what's driving them?
And that'd be a good that's,that's yoga. Yeah, your
whatever's driving you. That'sthe yoga and that's it, man like
your mama. And that talks aboutthe innate desire and all of us

(01:07:29):
to have to want freedom. So tome, yoga is like that, that
innate desire in all of us towant freedom, but it happening?
Yeah, that's expressing itself.

Yeah, we talked about that earlier. The
seed of sort of evolutionplanted in consciousness. Yeah.

Someone asked that, that. From now on. That's
when I'm gonna say why whyyou're asking.

It's good. To turn it around a little bit. You
can use that. Okay, I'll use it.
Can you say?

Did I ask you enough question? I feel so
selfish. I feel so selfish.
Having not asked more of you andhave it be more of a back and
forth.

It's an interview, man. Is it?

working? Well? can it work? I'll have you on mine
once I start. Okay.

Sounds good.
What do you call it?

The philosophy of living like it? Yeah. Good.
Yeah. How to put spiritualityinto actual living practice.

Beautiful.
Yeah. Well, actually, on thatpoint, do you want to talk about
what's going on with you rightnow? You know, what's your
vision? What are you working on?
Anything is a plug anything.

I mean, I think the thing I love to plug is the
road to Dharma, because I reallylove that, that show in that
immersive, edgy edutainment. Sowrote to Dharma Comm. You can
watch three episodes for free.
You can do three meditations forfree. So I love plugging that
because I think it's awesome.
Right? I think it's okay tothink it's awesome to. It's
really quick. It's cool. I'veseen it. It's wonderful. It's

(01:08:55):
cool. I like it. Yeah, like,it's just you don't get to take
these trips. Yeah, most peoplesort of take it with us,

especially now with COVID. And everything. I
mean, it's nice to be able totravel like in that sense. And
that sounds Yeah,

Himalayas to write to the sacred sites. What am I
doing? I feel like the thingsI'm doing are taking a little
step. So they're not so on thenose conscious. And then the
underbelly. So some of thethemes I'm looking at is freedom
and escapism, both these theseare like the themes and finding,

(01:09:28):
I have a few projects I can'ttalk about, but that are
interesting ways of expressingthose themes that again, are
entertaining or educational,that make bigger statements that
to me are more actually moreaccessible to the masses, which
probably answers the otherquestion too, which is like kind
of hiding the Trojan horse ofthe wisdom in something that
looks like in a general sense.
One of my projects is aboutaliens. So I can't go into how

(01:09:51):
it how it works on these levelsbecause it's really different
take on it. But we're making thesizzle for All right now and for
that series

exciting.
Yeah, right. Yeah. And I thinkyou can probably say one thing
you're working on as a communitykind of project, right? Like
creating community.

Yes. The application. Yeah. Yeah, we're
working on that. And then Ithink, I mean, I can talk about
fantastic fungi, depending onwhen this comes out. But I'm
helping the fantastic fungipeople do a global summit for
the sweats fungi global summitcalm. So everything from health,
to psychedelics, to mentalhealth to food. But yeah, the
app soon we'll talk about theother series, soon we'll talk

(01:10:30):
about these things. And we wrotea direction it took a long time
to come to its fruit, you know,like seven years or so right?
Right to actually be done. Sosometimes these more audacious
projects, you got to be patientand just yeah, wait for the
side. Wait for the season.

What's a good reminder that things take as
long as they do, right?

That's true send out said that once when you
distribute.

The mushrooms told me that thinks like, as
long as Yeah, that's beautiful.
You have a lot of exciting stuffcoming. This will be this
podcast will be out in a week ortwo. So yeah, plenty of time for
people to check out thefantastic fun guy. I think that
brings us full circle to thefungi. So meaning we started
talking about earlier yourexperience with mushrooms.

That's why I said yes to that project. To help
them do this summit was becausemushrooms were part of me as a
child, I felt like a child,right? Yeah. So when it comes
back years later, and I havethese other skills, like I go
serve the mushrooms a little andthat movement. 25 years late,
yeah, 25 years later, it's kindof like acceptable, right? Now,

(01:11:39):
this idea. Same thing, I did afilm with the Native Americans,
Lakota people called Women ofthe white buffalo. That project
was brought to me as a producerto help. And I was super busy at
the time, but I couldn't say noto that. That project and that
theme, because I was brought upwith a very strong love of

(01:12:00):
Native Americans. My dad hadinstilled that in me. And also
one of the guys that the Fatheris involved with a famous
musician that helped me out withsome songs on my first film,
it's like of course I'll have tostep in. So sometimes you know
you just you no matter what,like for anyone out there like
something feels right. Eventhough you're too busy. You just
say yes. Like you just have tostep in and you go, yeah, let me

(01:12:21):
help with this thing with thefun guy read the Lakota Indian
project. Yes, you got to do it.
Somehow we make time.

Yeah, yeah.
It's exciting and aligned. Justdo it. Right. Yeah. Beautiful.
Yeah, it's been you know, asalways, it's great talking to
you. I love Ed. Well, I lovehaving you on the podcast
because you're a great exampleof somebody who's spiritual but
not ridiculous. You're, you'reputting it out there. You're
you're studying an example, youknow, and the things you're
working on are really affectingpeople. So thank you. So thank

(01:12:49):
you so much.

My pleasure to be here. I love that you're doing
this podcast becausespiritualities isn't that
ridiculous?

It's not It's the best. I

think you nailed it. It's not ridiculous. It's
not It's ridiculous. to not haveit right in your life, right?
life would be ridiculous withoutthese tools. Absolutely. That's
what's gone. That's what's updude. figured it out. We figured
it out yet. Again. Life'sridiculous. Without
spirituality.

Yeah, it's true. It's true. I think you
have to experience it for so itcan be a little bit of like a
hurdle. Right? Sure. You know,it seems like a strange thing.
You gotta you know, try it.
Yeah, meditate. Just check itout. Check it out. Yeah, great.
Well, I'll put all the thingsyou mentioned in the show notes
and links to your website andthis random URL as well, Adam,
it's been so great. Thank you somuch.

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