ConspirAsylum 2: Schizopharmiac

Hello and welcome to another bad ass mini series! In this series we will be taking a closer look at mental illness and the industry around it. We’re going to be talking about the history of mental illness, from the medieval treatments all the way to the modern day outlook.. Is mental illness more of a misunderstood spiritual condition or simply something that can be prescribed away or therapy sessioned away? 

In today's episode we will be diving into the modern day approach of pharmaceuticals, psychiatry and MK Ultra. This is sensitive content.

Listener discretion is advised!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Oh there, m H.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Trigger warn this podcast may include explicit content that will
take you out of your comfort zone and make you
question reality.

Speaker 3 (00:40):
Listener's discretion is advised.

Speaker 4 (01:00):
Hello, and welcome back to the second installment of the
Conspira Asylum series. This is Schitzopharmiac and I'm really excited
for this one. I have a lot of loose ins
to tie up from the first episode, and of course

(01:21):
we have Colby joining us for the second installment.

Speaker 3 (01:26):
Colby, how are you wonderfully insane? In the membrane in
the everywhere?

Speaker 4 (01:36):
So something that I wanted to talk about really quick
as we're getting going is something I want I was
gonna include in the first episode, but we ran out
of time because we went almost three hours. Notorious Asylums?

(01:58):
Did you have anything on that just that just I'm
gonna run through it just kind of quick.

Speaker 5 (02:03):
But I had some weird insane asylums that were notorious
for reasons. One of them sounded an awful lot like
a Mexican food restaurant. And I don't think I brought
my notes with me from last week, so I don't
even remember what.

Speaker 3 (02:20):
It was called.

Speaker 4 (02:21):
Was it noteworthy?

Speaker 5 (02:23):
It was just where you know, they the evidence left
behind and the stories and the mainstream trying to pull
cover saying that these places were you know, above board
and it was shit going on like in American Horror
Story season two, and you know, we'll get into some
of those today, I imagine, But yeah, I don't remember

(02:46):
what mne were.

Speaker 4 (02:47):
Well, I have a couple that you can say if
you've heard of them or not. Had you heard of
the Bedlom Bedlom Royal Hospital in.

Speaker 3 (02:59):
London in England sounds vaguely familiar.

Speaker 4 (03:03):
It's Europe's oldest insane asylum, founded in twelve forty seven.
So it was one of the places that used that
spinny chair treatment that you showed in the last episode,
where they'd put somebody in the spinny chair and spin
them until they threw up or shit themselves.

Speaker 3 (03:25):
Really, that's probably why it sounds familiar.

Speaker 4 (03:27):
Yeah, so they did that. Then there's the trans Alleghany
Lunatic Asylum in West Virginia. This place is notorious for
ghost hunter groups going because they say with the lobotomies
and the poor care of the patients and all the
deaths and the weird stuff, that it's like super haunted.

(03:49):
And they even offer paranormal tours at this place. But
the one that stuck out to me the most that's
now closed down was Willowbrook State School is what it
was called. And this guy, his name is Geraldo Rivera.

Speaker 3 (04:13):
But you know who he is.

Speaker 4 (04:17):
He was you know who a journalist.

Speaker 3 (04:19):
Yeah, he's the guy with the mustache. Yeah, you know
who he is, right right? Oh, I just the way
you said it, I thought you didn't know who he was.

Speaker 4 (04:26):
Well, I'm just saying for anybody who doesn't know who
he is.

Speaker 5 (04:30):
I mean he's pretty notorious. His takes on a lot
of the big events.

Speaker 4 (04:35):
Well, this was back in nineteen seventy two. He looked
like he was just starting.

Speaker 5 (04:40):
Out, Yeah, the early seventies. I didn't know he was
around that long.

Speaker 4 (04:44):
Yeah. So this was back in nineteen seventy two, and
he actually found the story about the Willow State School
because Robert Kennedy went on the news talking about how
awful it was and how somebody needed to do something
and nobody ever did anything about it. And then Heraldo

(05:06):
Rivera was like, somebody needs to publish a story about
how these people are getting treated.

Speaker 5 (05:12):
And I wonder if that was the place that his
sister went to.

Speaker 4 (05:18):
Is it?

Speaker 3 (05:18):
Where was it?

Speaker 6 (05:20):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (05:21):
New York?

Speaker 3 (05:22):
What's it called?

Speaker 4 (05:24):
Willowbrook Asylum, New York?

Speaker 3 (05:27):
I think that might be it is?

Speaker 4 (05:28):
Do you think that's how that's why he was so
at it.

Speaker 5 (05:32):
As soon as you mentioned Robert Kennedy, my Hackles went up,
let me verify where she went?

Speaker 4 (05:39):
Well? He went he yeah, he went on the news
and he was like, somebody needs to do something. These
people are getting treated like literal garbage. Yeah, the thing
and I actually somewhere around here want to include a
clip of Heraldo Rivera touring Willowbrooks State School because.

Speaker 3 (06:01):
It's everything let's call the State School.

Speaker 4 (06:04):
Yeah, it's everything that you would imagine an insane asylum
in a horror.

Speaker 3 (06:10):
Movie to be Why did they call it a.

Speaker 4 (06:12):
School Because they let people drop their kids off there
and never come back for them. And they said that
they were going to train them like monkeys to.

Speaker 7 (06:21):
Do like.

Speaker 4 (06:24):
Basic like self care stuff, but they never did what
they like, how to feed themselves, how to like xyz,
but they never did. They basically people would just drop
their family members off and they were.

Speaker 3 (06:40):
Naked, dropped off naked, No okay, they.

Speaker 4 (06:45):
Would go back to visit them and all the inmates,
patients whatever, anywhere from newborn to old as fuck.

Speaker 3 (06:58):
In particular.

Speaker 4 (06:58):
Yeah, they would be sitting around in the wards naked,
getting force fed.

Speaker 3 (07:05):
So it's like a food in their mouths. It's like
a zoo.

Speaker 8 (07:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (07:09):
And they were shitting and pissing everywhere, throwing shit and
piss everywhere.

Speaker 3 (07:16):
And it sounds like an exhibit right.

Speaker 4 (07:19):
Well, I'm going to include a little snippet of when
Heraldo Rivera wentz Ago visit this place.

Speaker 9 (07:40):
I visited the state institutions for the mentally retarded, and
I think, particularly at Willowbrook, that we have a situation
that borders on a state pit and that the children
live and built, that many of our fellow citizens are
suffering tremendously because lack of attention, had a lack of imagination,
lack of adequate manpower, a very little future for the

(08:03):
children or for those who are in these institutions. Both
need a tremendous overhauling. I'm not saying that those who
are the attendants there, are the ones that run the institution,
are at fall. I think all of us are at Paul,
and I think it's just it's long overdue that something
be done about it.

Speaker 10 (08:33):
It's been more than six years since Robert Kennedy walked
out of one of the wards here at Willowbrook and
told newsmen of the horror he'd seen inside. He pleaded
then for an overhaul of a system that allowed retarded
children to live in a snake pit. But that was
way back in nineteen sixty five, and somehow we'd all forgotten.
I first heard of this big place with the pretty
sounding name because of a call I received from a

(08:54):
member of the Willow Brooks staff, doctor Michael Wilkins. The
doctor told me he'd just been fired because he'd been
urging parents with children in one of the buildings, building
number six, to organize so they could more effectively demand
improve conditions for their children. The doctor invited me to
see the conditions he was talking about, so, unannounced and
unexpected by the school administration, we toured Building number six.

(09:18):
The doctor had warned me that it would be bad.

Speaker 7 (09:21):
It was horrible.

Speaker 10 (09:22):
There was one attendant for perhaps fifty severely and profoundly
retarded children, and the children lying on the floor naked
and smeared with their own feces. They were making a
pitiful sound, the kind of mournful wail that it's impossible
for me to forget.

Speaker 11 (09:38):
This is what it looked like, this is what.

Speaker 10 (09:40):
It sounded like. But how can I tell you about
the way it smelled. It smelled of filth, it smelled
of disease, and it smelled of death. We've just seen
something that's probably the most horrible thing I've ever seen
in my life.

Speaker 3 (09:52):
It's that typical of ward life.

Speaker 12 (09:56):
Yes, there are five thsy three hundred patients at Willowbrook,
which is the largest institution for the mentally retarded in
the world. The ones that we saw were the most
severely and profoundly retarded. There are thousands there like that,
not going to school, sitting on the ward all day,
not being talked to by anyone, Only one or two

(10:18):
or three people to take care of. Seventy people on
the ward sharing the same toilet, contracting the same diseases together.
One hundred percent of patients at Wilillbrook contract hepatitis within
six months of being in the institution. The most patients
at some time in their life have paracized the incidents
of pneumonia's and is greater than any other group of

(10:41):
people that I think exist in this country. Trauma is
severe because these patients are left together on a ward
seventy retarded people, basically unattended, fighting for a small scrap
of paper on the floor to play with, fighting for
the attention of the attendants who are overworked trying to

(11:02):
clean them, feed them, clothe them, and if possible, pay
little attention to them and work with them develop their intelligence.
But what in fact happens is that they go downhill.

Speaker 4 (11:16):
If your kid had Down syndrome, if they were just
developmentally disabled, if they were schizophrenic, if they were whatever,
anything outside of just normal, you could take them and
drop them off that willow broke for them to run
around naked, sleeping, piss and shit. And it showed feeding

(11:36):
time with the nurses and they would just be strapped
to a chair with their mouth pried open and they
would just shovel food and they'd be choking and gagging
on it, and it looked like.

Speaker 3 (11:48):
No, wonder you didn't just give them like a tube
down the throat.

Speaker 4 (11:52):
I mean, they had one nurse for every fifty patients
or something like that, So you can imagine how.

Speaker 5 (11:59):
The clean in the Yeah, I'm going to actually talk
about that's how it was really similar still in the nineties.

Speaker 4 (12:06):
Even that's not I mean, one nurse for fifty patients,
that's not enough. Yeah, And so this is where we've
come to though, that that's in the seventies. But I mean,
as we talked about in the first episode, like how
did we get here, Well, these people are looked at

(12:29):
as garbage people. These are the trash people. These are
the people you just throw away and you just keep
them alive mechanically. But there is no spiritual there is
no I mean, they're literally treated like garbage people.

Speaker 5 (12:44):
Yeah, there's no humanity or compassion. And even when someone
with humanity or compassion gets into the system like that
as a job, a lot of them just burn out
like teachers do and become peace is a shit, or
they struggle with it.

Speaker 3 (13:03):
They become you know, nightly drinkers and they don't live
a fulfilled life, yeah, or they quit. You know, there's
no way that you.

Speaker 5 (13:13):
Can bring compassionate humanity into a system that's as broken
as this one is without completely overhauling it, which we
don't seem to even have in our list of priorities
as far as politics goes. You know, that's that's where
people look for big change to happen, and it's such

(13:33):
a big industry that to do away with it it
would just affect all the wrong people in the wrong ways.

Speaker 1 (13:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (13:45):
And the fact that they said, like they use the
word training, like, oh, if you drop your kid off here,
we'll train them how to Yeah.

Speaker 5 (13:55):
The language is like how you talk about animals, the
walking around nked, shitting and pissing wherever.

Speaker 4 (14:02):
Yeah, literally treated like an I mean they animals are
sometimes treated I was.

Speaker 3 (14:08):
Going to say, Yeah. And also prisoners.

Speaker 5 (14:13):
You talk to a lot of people who have been
in both, and what we'll talk about next episode. A
lot with the pop culture angle of all of this
is in the movie and book One Flew Over the
Cuckoo's Nest, the protagonist believes that if he feigns insanity
that he'll be able to have a cakewalk in an

(14:33):
institution somewhere, and he finds that it's worse the hard.
Through the hard way of finding out such a thing,
he discovers that a lot of these places are prison
times a thousand and Yeah, we'll talk more about that
angle of it next time.

Speaker 4 (14:53):
Well, the last asylum I wanted to talk to you about.
I it came into my memory because of the article
you read in the last episode about the African guy
who came over and he said that the way that
we view mental illness is totally fucked up and wrong,
and that like spirits are trying to channel through these

(15:15):
people because they're healers or something like that, or they
have a message or they have So I wanted to
read you this story really quick. I'll try to sum
it up as quick as I can to just move
on from this part. But it's called the Voltaira asylum
in Tuscany, Italy, and it was built in eighteen eighty eight,

(15:39):
the same year Jack the Ripper was ripped and running
through wherever the fuck he was. That's how old it is,
though he was in London. Well, let me tell you
a little bit about the asylum before I get to
the patient. So this place accommodated six thousand patients at
a time, so it was huge, and it was like
the Willowbrooks School. They only have like one nurse.

Speaker 3 (16:00):
For every like one hundred dec They called themselves a school.

Speaker 4 (16:04):
No, they they called themselves an asylum.

Speaker 5 (16:07):
Yeah, that rebranding seems totally American, right.

Speaker 4 (16:12):
So it was built on the ruins of several tombs
and was a known sight of hangings in witchcraft, and
they cleared all that out and then they built this
asylum on top of this site. And the most famous
doctor who practiced there was actually a Nazi concentration camp
doctor who was found guilty of crimes against humanity, uh,

(16:34):
doctor Shilling or something like that. And so you can
imagine with his backstory what kind of experiments were going
on at.

Speaker 5 (16:42):
This So was okay, wait a minute, so that would
have been a ways into it, because you said it
was built in eighteen eighty eight. Yeah, so this guy
was this guy this So now we're into like after
World War two. Yeah, okay, doctor Shilling. I want to
keep talking. I want to just kind of look them.

Speaker 4 (16:59):
Yeah, yeah, go ahead. It's s h I l ll
no C. Yeah. I think his first name was maybe Ralph.
I don't know, but.

Speaker 3 (17:10):
Ralph Shilling sounds like a shoe brand.

Speaker 4 (17:14):
So there was a patient who they had, because they
had thousands of patients, they stopped calling them by their
name and they gave them numbers.

Speaker 5 (17:25):
And so this paper or animalistic treatment, like right tagging
him with fucking you know, in the ear, like their cattle.

Speaker 3 (17:32):
So now do you think they tattooed him? Since he
was a Nazi.

Speaker 5 (17:35):
Guy, he might have incorporated what's it called, uh, Walnut.

Speaker 4 (17:40):
Creek, Voltaire Asylum, Klaus Slause Shilling.

Speaker 5 (17:45):
That's fucking that's the fish American dad.

Speaker 3 (17:49):
I think it's him.

Speaker 4 (17:50):
Yeah, that's him.

Speaker 3 (17:51):
No, do you think that's who it's supposed to be
an American dad?

Speaker 4 (17:53):
Oh?

Speaker 5 (17:54):
I don't know, yeah, because I always got the impression
that that was an operation paper clip thing they transferred
to the Nazi's brain into a goldfish.

Speaker 4 (18:01):
So maybe he's got the accent.

Speaker 3 (18:03):
Well yeah, anyway, but yeah, that's him.

Speaker 13 (18:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (18:08):
It says he perpetrated infamous human experiments at Doc Cow.

Speaker 3 (18:15):
Yep, it's a dust shower. Doc Cow, I always.

Speaker 4 (18:18):
Say Doc Cow. But that's the doc on staff for
the Voltaire Asylum.

Speaker 3 (18:26):
And I was wondering if he was a paper clip
guy himself.

Speaker 4 (18:32):
Because no, he got tried. Do you think he got death?

Speaker 3 (18:38):
So he got tried?

Speaker 5 (18:39):
So when did he participate in the stuff at the
asylum after the war?

Speaker 4 (18:46):
I think it was right after and then they found
him and then they prosecuted him.

Speaker 5 (18:53):
Anyway, I just wanted to do paper clip and see
what comes up, because that would be interesting.

Speaker 3 (18:58):
Says he wasn't a member of the Nazi birdy.

Speaker 4 (19:03):
He was in the documentary that I watched, said he
got death.

Speaker 3 (19:10):
Could it be that he was just working with him?
M m, well, we don't want to go down this
rabbit hole.

Speaker 5 (19:16):
Looks like there's a lot on this guy anyway, that's interesting.
So he goes from the war to working here to
getting snagged and tried for war crabs.

Speaker 3 (19:28):
Yeah, put to death.

Speaker 5 (19:29):
Yeah, fuck man, that's rare to hear if he'd been
working over here.

Speaker 4 (19:35):
But the thing he would have lived, he's actually not
even the highlight of this story. He's like a side note,
but I mention it because he was doing experiments there, right.
And so this patient who only went by nof four,
they later found out his real name was Fernando Nanetti.

Speaker 3 (19:56):
There was something in the night.

Speaker 4 (19:59):
So this guy, it's so sad too, because this Fernando
guy was abandoned by his mother at age seven.

Speaker 3 (20:08):
She has dropped him off at the asylum.

Speaker 4 (20:10):
Not at this one, just a random one, and he
was institutionalized the rest of his life because he had
nowhere else to go. He had no mental illness to
speak of. And he was transferred to Volterra Asylum in
nineteen fifty eight as an adult, and after he got

(20:31):
transferred to Volterra, his behavior drastically changed into what some
of the nurses referred to as supernatural. He lost his
ability to speak, and he began using his belt to
carve words, symbols, and drawings into the walls of the
asylum courtyard, and over the course of ten years, he

(20:55):
eventually ended up covering the span of two football fields
with these cars. And in these carvings he predicted the
invention of the cell phone as well as the moon landing.
And he also carved intricate details of TVs and complex
electrical systems for like computer software into the walls of

(21:17):
this asylum.

Speaker 5 (21:19):
So they were doing something with this kid.

Speaker 4 (21:22):
Well, he was an adult when he got trans transfer.

Speaker 5 (21:26):
I was going to ask if you knew because you
said nineteen fifty eight. I don't know if you said
the year when his mom dropped him off when he
was seven.

Speaker 4 (21:32):
He was seven when he got drped.

Speaker 5 (21:35):
No, so he's an adult and he's writing it's it's
almost like a but he would you could make like
a series.

Speaker 3 (21:42):
About this guy, like stranger things type shit.

Speaker 4 (21:44):
Yeah, but the nurses said when he got there he
was completely normal, and then over time like he lost
his ability to speak, and then he started trying to
communicate through these drugs.

Speaker 5 (21:57):
Maybe this is just me spit volume here. Maybe they
were testing all these vaccines on him and they made him.

Speaker 3 (22:03):
Autistics Nazi doctor working, right, That's why I'm saying that.

Speaker 5 (22:06):
And then he becomes like this clairvoyant, fucking autistic guy
making all these note nostrodamis type modern predictions.

Speaker 4 (22:17):
So right before he died, NF four said that when
he arrived at the asylum, he was given the ability
to telepathically communicate with an entity that was connected to
the asylum grounds.

Speaker 5 (22:32):
All right, I just does a side note. We should
do a whole episode on this guy.

Speaker 4 (22:38):
But the article you read in the last episode about
how these entities or whatever trying to channel through these people,
this guy didn't even have mental illness. He got transferred
to this place. They probably started doing experiments and got in.

Speaker 5 (22:53):
They then induced some kind of psychosis or autism.

Speaker 3 (22:58):
It might sound like he went nonverbal.

Speaker 4 (23:00):
Yeah, wow, he got it down four days off from
the moon landing.

Speaker 5 (23:08):
The most important question is did he predict that it
was fake?

Speaker 4 (23:13):
No, But he also he wrote about cell phones and
stuff too.

Speaker 5 (23:18):
But he got nineteen he said, he said we're going
to land on the Moon and such and such in
nineteen sixty nine. Yeah, and then this was in the
late fifties, so he was like a decade. I mean, yeah,
they hadn't even announced politically that they were going to
do a space race and putting him in on I

(23:38):
mean that was so this was nineteen fifty eight that
he did this.

Speaker 4 (23:42):
He started in nineteen fifty eight. It took him ten.

Speaker 5 (23:44):
Years, okis so then he would so then he would
have been from fifty eight to sixty eight. I wonder
at what point in there he wrote about.

Speaker 3 (23:54):
The moon landing.

Speaker 4 (23:56):
There is a lot of information you can find about
this guy, because since the asylum closed, they removed large
chunks of the walls where nf were carved these images,
and they're all in a museum somewhere and that's it's
a suseum in Italy.

Speaker 3 (24:18):
That's not like Smithsonian, they said.

Speaker 4 (24:21):
They so they took these big chunks of the wall out,
they put them in a museum.

Speaker 14 (24:25):
They said, this is just artwork, but it happens to
be prophetic, right, so he is like modern hieroglyphs.

Speaker 3 (24:36):
Right.

Speaker 4 (24:37):
Well, he also spoke about and the nurses would just say, oh,
he's been in here so long, he's crazy now. But
he would say that the asylum was a portal for
shadow people and that they were coming in and out.

Speaker 3 (24:55):
So he said that before he went no, no, he.

Speaker 4 (24:58):
Would write it and he would try to communicate with
the nurses, and uh, you can find all of this
stuff if you google this guy's name. His name is
again Fernando or sty Nanetti, and so he went by
n o F four. You could probably google it, just
Volterra Asylum n o F four. You'll find pictures of him.

(25:21):
You'll find pictures of the carvings.

Speaker 5 (25:23):
You'll find that you need to the guy who made
Archie Archive eighty one.

Speaker 3 (25:28):
Uh huh, he needs to.

Speaker 5 (25:29):
Make an NF four series and just have it be
about this guy.

Speaker 4 (25:33):
I randomly came across this in an episode of a
show I was watching. And when you read that article,
and do you.

Speaker 3 (25:42):
Want to admit everybody to everybody what show it was?

Speaker 4 (25:44):
It's a spin off of Ghost Adventures.

Speaker 5 (25:47):
As if Ghost Adventures needs to spin off, they.

Speaker 3 (25:50):
Apparently have one. What's what's the show called.

Speaker 4 (25:53):
It's called Destinations of the Damned, and it's about haunted
locations all over the world, not just in the US.

Speaker 3 (26:02):
So how is that different than ghost Adventures.

Speaker 4 (26:04):
He doesn't actually go to the location. He sends archaeologists
and he sends like.

Speaker 3 (26:09):
Oh boy, he's moving on up.

Speaker 4 (26:11):
Yeah, so Zach, he sent like people to go and
look at these.

Speaker 5 (26:16):
Do you think he's do you think even though he's
coordinating it from afar, he.

Speaker 3 (26:21):
Still gets my next burning Probably.

Speaker 5 (26:24):
He's zoom calling with the correspondence on your ound.

Speaker 4 (26:27):
It's not an interesting story, but yeah, I want to
do a whole episode on it. Yeah, it could have
its own episode. But you read the article at joggby
Memory about this guy being prophetic as fuck. He didn't
have mental illness. They moved into this place.

Speaker 3 (26:42):
Where man, you'll come to find many of them.

Speaker 4 (26:46):
Do not, right. But so that is my sum up
of the asylent portion of this episode, because I do
want to get into some pharmaceuticals and it's psychiatry and stuff.

Speaker 5 (26:58):
I'm glad you're covering the pharmaceuticle angle of it, because
I'm not.

Speaker 4 (27:03):
I have quite a few notes on the pharmaceutical aspect.

Speaker 3 (27:06):
Good, So where do you want to start?

Speaker 4 (27:08):
Do you want me to run through the pharmaceuticals.

Speaker 5 (27:10):
First, Well, I think we should, because, for example, maybe
you'll mention this prozac became a big thing.

Speaker 3 (27:20):
In what the seventies or eighties? Yeah, so which one
is it?

Speaker 4 (27:27):
My eighties?

Speaker 3 (27:28):
Eighties?

Speaker 5 (27:29):
But I mean, I think the eighties in general were
a huge fucking decade for the pharmaceutical industry.

Speaker 4 (27:36):
And it bled over big time into the nineties.

Speaker 15 (27:39):
With the.

Speaker 3 (27:42):
Commodifying fucking depression.

Speaker 4 (27:44):
And yeah, it's started to become like a like a
we can take the pharmaceuticals and mix match them with
the Laurel camps as I like to call them. And
obviously we're going to talk about psychiatry and how it's
escalated from there. But before we do that, I kind

(28:07):
of wanted to just talk about briefly the origins of
some of these big name pharmaceuticals that are still in
use today that I feel like, are it's utterly insane
that anybody puts this shit into their bodies. Utterly insane.
So the first drug specifically targeted for mental illness was lithium, right,

(28:32):
and it was used by psychiatrists in the eighteen seventies lithium.
But you know where they get you is the lithium
that's available for prescription now is not the lithium that
they were using in eighteen seven.

Speaker 5 (28:52):
Say your great granddaddy's lithium. So so are you saying
it was better to have the old lithium?

Speaker 4 (29:01):
Yeah, because actually, long before modern medicine, Roman physicians recognized
the therapeutic effects of natural spring water that was high
in lithium. Content.

Speaker 5 (29:15):
Tell you right now as a side note, I haven't
shown you this, but you know the downtown.

Speaker 3 (29:21):
Square of Ashland. Yeah, there's a fucking.

Speaker 5 (29:26):
Drinking fountain that comes out of Lithia Creek that runs
through Ashland, and this is like it tastes like bubbly.

Speaker 3 (29:34):
Ocean water and people go high in lithium. Yeah, people
go there and drink it.

Speaker 4 (29:39):
That's the lithium that they were using to treat people.

Speaker 3 (29:43):
So there's just using from natural sources.

Speaker 4 (29:45):
Natural spring water that was high in lithium. The lithium
that's prescribed to people today is some kind of petroleum
synthetic grosser.

Speaker 3 (29:55):
Yeah, it all is now. Yeah, they synthesized it and
they they.

Speaker 4 (30:00):
Turned it into petrochemical. So of course other than lithium,
they would use like thor zine and shit like that,
because you can't be crazy if you just constantly knocked
the fuck out basically. But something that I wanted to
address is that most of the modern day antidepressants that

(30:24):
the doctors will put you on, the active ingredient is fluoride.

Speaker 5 (30:30):
Right, especially Prozac, yes, which I don't think they really
use anymore. I think they phased out to these more
modernized SSRIs.

Speaker 4 (30:41):
You're still gonna find docs out there who want them.

Speaker 5 (30:44):
Oh yeah, I know, I know it's not completely discontinued,
but I think.

Speaker 4 (30:47):
It's the My mom took it for years, proses zach.
Do you know what the generic name for prozac is?
Fluoxetine as in fluoride. Fluoride oxcene is the generic name

(31:10):
for prozac. I mean, if you think you're getting away
from fluoride by taking other SSRI's like lexapro, think again,
because one of the number one active ingredients in lexapro
is fluoride.

Speaker 5 (31:28):
I was just looking up to see Mother's Little Helper
by the rolling Stones.

Speaker 3 (31:34):
I didn't remember what that was about. You know, it's valium.

Speaker 5 (31:39):
I think lithium, valium, prozac, lexapro, now a bunch of
just huge offshoots of those latter ones, Like.

Speaker 3 (31:52):
Can you think of any.

Speaker 4 (31:55):
That are used right now?

Speaker 3 (31:57):
I mean, my sister's been on all of them.

Speaker 16 (32:00):
My mom, we.

Speaker 5 (32:00):
Should have had her, We should have had her as
like a ten minute guest spot zoomer in. No, because
she likes them, so it's okay to get the other side.
I mean, she actually has had really bad experiences with
certain ones.

Speaker 6 (32:15):
Well.

Speaker 4 (32:15):
The thing about it, though, is they say that they
put that high amount of fluoride in these drugs because
it improves their efficacy, which means it totally shuts your
fucking brain down.

Speaker 5 (32:29):
Well, why do they put it in the water because
teeth teeth. Luckily, we live in one of few states
that hasn't fluoridated their water.

Speaker 3 (32:39):
In fact, as I.

Speaker 5 (32:41):
Know, and you'll come to find out when you have
a kid and you take them to the doctor. They
even specify like, yeah, we don't have florid in the
water here in Oregon. Do you want to put your
kid on fluoride pills?

Speaker 12 (32:53):
No?

Speaker 3 (32:53):
Fuck you very.

Speaker 4 (32:54):
Much, Fuck you very much. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (32:57):
I mean, eventually they stop asking because they just know
I mean they.

Speaker 3 (33:01):
Have to ask.

Speaker 4 (33:03):
I'm sure they have to ask.

Speaker 5 (33:04):
On their required questionnaire that every.

Speaker 4 (33:08):
Doctor saying, we have to put fluoride in these antidepressants
because it improves the efficacy.

Speaker 5 (33:15):
Well, it's like adding shit to fucking tobacco when you make.

Speaker 4 (33:19):
Cigarettes, but improves their efficacy because it totally calcifies your
fucking brain hole.

Speaker 3 (33:27):
I mean that is generally what they're going for.

Speaker 4 (33:31):
So another ingredient that is used in almost every pharmaceutical,
but especially synthetic antidepressants, is petroleum derivatives.

Speaker 3 (33:45):
I think that's just in most pharmaceuticals.

Speaker 4 (33:48):
In thailan al, advil, they all have petrochemicals. And the
reason that they use petrochemicals is because of So when
we say things like the pharmaceutical industry is an industry
for a reason, it's a money making machine. They don't

(34:11):
care about healing anyone, they don't care about saving anyone.
They're literally synthesizing fluoride and petrochemicals to induce a fucking
lobotomy in a very mild form, right.

Speaker 5 (34:26):
And it's it's perpetual. Over time, you're getting the same effect.
It's like I used to say when I was really
big into like all the MDMA research they did in
the eighties. When I was like making this documentary a
long time ago, they talk about how MDMA was being

(34:50):
used in couple's therapy. It was being used for depression,
and the idea was, rather than flood your brain and
fuck your Sara tone and uptake with these modern pills,
you would have three or four sessions with molly, and
that's what MDMA is. And in some of these instances,
like the therapists would take a little and then the

(35:12):
couples would take some and they would just bear their
souls to each other and they was fucking working for
all sorts of shit.

Speaker 3 (35:19):
And the pharmaceutical company said, well, that's what ours do.

Speaker 5 (35:22):
But it does it over fucking years and years and years,
and it keeps you coming back. So MDMA was just
wiped off the map. Now, I do have a lot
of mixed feelings about what they're doing with some of
these psychedelic studies that are still continuing to day through
places like Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies maps they're doing

(35:45):
like all these but I did see a lot of
value in three therapy sessions for it. The most where
you roll and I have done MDMA a handful of times,
and by God, I think there was something there.

Speaker 4 (36:01):
Oh why because it's focusing on spiritual outlets instead of.

Speaker 5 (36:06):
No it's I mean, you can look at it, and
it does. If you're spiritually inclined, it will feel that way.
But what it does is it just lets you look
at yourself from an objective, empathetic perspective, which you were
not able to do in our bodies. For some reason,

(36:27):
maybe we can maybe we lost it, but this allows
you to just be.

Speaker 3 (36:34):
Completely open and honest. I mean you could like.

Speaker 4 (36:37):
Okay, but yeah, that sounds like a spiritual thing.

Speaker 3 (36:39):
For sure, it is. There's a spiritual level to it.

Speaker 5 (36:41):
But you could take atheists and get the same result
and they would just look at it as better living
through chemistry or whatever. But my whole point was this
Rockefeller model of medicine couldn't survive. If you were letting
things through the cracks into the psychotherapy offices across the country,

(37:01):
you would quickly drive them under, and so of course
they did, or they drove them under so they wouldn't
be driven under. Also, something I wanted to mention because
the Rockefeller thing, I'm assuming that ninety nine point ninety
ninety nine percent of people listening or watching this are

(37:22):
very aware of the Rockefeller system.

Speaker 3 (37:23):
But I couldn't help.

Speaker 5 (37:25):
But notice I've always been a King of the Hill fan.

Speaker 3 (37:28):
Julia's like, yeah, on it.

Speaker 5 (37:30):
But I've been watching the new one, and of course
my favorite character is Dale Dale, and in this one,
he's like saying all the shit, but it's just you know,
he's he's mentioned in he always did, but he's mentioned
in like Rockefeller Medicine. And in one of the more
recent episodes I watched, he was talking about the Zepruder

(37:51):
film and he's like, if you zoo him in on
such and such frame, you see this, And he's like,
but it's all fake anyway.

Speaker 3 (37:57):
And I was like, oh my god, they're like up.

Speaker 5 (37:59):
But then you gotta wonder, like because Mike Judge is
probably very aware of all this shit, but he chooses
like this character that no one takes seriously to be
like the outlet for all those ideas.

Speaker 3 (38:11):
And I think that's the problem with a lot.

Speaker 5 (38:13):
Of you know, pop culture conspiracy stuff, is it's never
like a credible character. The guy's wife's been fucking the
Indian dude, right, in front of his eyes. He misses
the most obvious shit, but he's in tune with all
these conspiracies.

Speaker 3 (38:26):
Anyway, that's a tangent.

Speaker 5 (38:27):
But I think we were talking about the petroleum based.

Speaker 4 (38:32):
The Rockefeller stuff. I mean, yeah, I think that a
lot of people are aware of it. I don't think
that they're aware that it's in literally everything. It's in Thailand, all,
it's in Advil.

Speaker 5 (38:43):
It's it's not even hard information to find. I mean,
you know, people don't give a fuck. But like the
other night, I had a headache and you asked if
I wanted something, and I said no, I.

Speaker 4 (38:52):
Was talking about Adville. I said, do you want some
vix on your forehead? I didn't, which actually contains petroleum.

Speaker 3 (39:01):
So it all does, babe.

Speaker 4 (39:03):
Yeah, I mean I guess you're right about that, But
I was gonna.

Speaker 5 (39:06):
It's like seed oils and food is the petroleum and
everything else.

Speaker 4 (39:10):
Sometimes when I have a bad headache, putting a little
vixa on my forehead helps.

Speaker 5 (39:14):
You could also get fucking peppermint essential oils.

Speaker 4 (39:18):
We don't have any right now.

Speaker 3 (39:19):
Well, I'm just saying it.

Speaker 5 (39:21):
You can get that sensation from completely non petroleum products.

Speaker 4 (39:26):
Definitely, I would prefer that.

Speaker 5 (39:28):
Well, I mean I could get a bottle next time
I go. I mean I can get you a bottle
by three o'clock this afternoon.

Speaker 4 (39:33):
I was going to talk a little bit about antipsychotics
as well, because they're in the same loop as the antidepressants,
and it's actually going to be a good segue into psychiatry.
So the main anti psychotics are ziprexa, Wrispitoal, sarraquil, Abilify,

(39:59):
zell docs, and in Vega, and then they have all
the generic names listed here. But Sarahquill was given to
me when I was in tenth grade because I didn't
want to go to school, so I was truant, and

(40:20):
the truant officer ordered that I go to a talk
therapist who was a psychiatrist.

Speaker 3 (40:27):
We call them shrinks and kneads, neked the woods.

Speaker 4 (40:29):
And she told my mom that my behavioral issues in
not wanting to go to school was because I was psychotic,
and she put me on a super high fucking dose
of sarah quill. I couldn't move, I couldn't talk, I
couldn't fucking eat. I could all I could do is
get in the feetus position and fucking sleep. That's all

(40:50):
I could do. And so in tenth fucking grade, this woman,
who was ordered by the court by the state of Ohio,
put me on an antipsychotic medication, and then she recommended
to my mom that I go to one of these
lora wood encampments and get like talk therapy and stuff

(41:10):
like that and paint pictures of my bee hole, because
that was going to fix the part I didn't want
to go to school.

Speaker 5 (41:17):
You know, I always from a young age noticed because
I was a compliance student. At first, I didn't start,
you know, stop giving a fuck about school or start
not giving a fuck about school until like early high school.

Speaker 9 (41:33):
I was like.

Speaker 3 (41:35):
I was in the.

Speaker 5 (41:36):
Talented gifted program. I was fucking always wanting to do
very well. And then I like got interested in women
and everything else that teen boys get interested in. But
I didn't notice early on, like maybe junior high level,
maybe a little bit before then, all the fucking outcast kids,

(41:57):
the kids that they did what they did to you.
They're the smartest fucking kids in school. They're the ones
going the fuck is all this this doesn't feel right.
I should fucking not comply. I didn't, And what do
they do with the non compliant. They start you early
on this fucking treadmill of psychiatry pharmaceutical shit, and they

(42:21):
actually make the smart kids want to do drugs. And
I really did think that there was always like a
double edged.

Speaker 3 (42:31):
Mission with like the DARE program.

Speaker 5 (42:34):
Because you're telling the compliant kids to not do drugs.
On the other hand, you're telling the non.

Speaker 3 (42:39):
Compliant kids that this is their path. What do they
tell you?

Speaker 5 (42:43):
Only bad kids do drugs, And these kids have already
been told time and time again that they're bad because
they don't listen and they get it distracted when the
light's flickering and it's fucking fifteen minutes until recess. Those
are the kids that they put on the drugs, and
then the kids that do recreational drugs and the kids
that oftentimes drop out of high school become a lot

(43:03):
of these throwaways in society, but they're very fucking intelligent people.

Speaker 4 (43:08):
Well, think about it like this, because I'll just tell
you from my experience, and this is this segue that,
by the way, all of those antipsychotic drugs have petrochemicals,
and floor I.

Speaker 5 (43:18):
Could just assume that anything pharmaceutical is going to be
just fucking straight up poison. It is poisonous regardless of
what it does to your brain. It's fucking killing your organs. Oh,
killing your libido most of the fucking time.

Speaker 4 (43:34):
Lexipro, by the way, I have I have a friend
who takes it to this day and she's like, well.

Speaker 3 (43:40):
What's her name? Where she live?

Speaker 16 (43:42):
Just kidding?

Speaker 4 (43:43):
So she's taking it forever long.

Speaker 3 (43:46):
And has she listened?

Speaker 13 (43:48):
No?

Speaker 3 (43:48):
Okay, sorry, I just didn't want to make things awkward.

Speaker 4 (43:51):
Oh but so she told me one day, she said,
I'd like to take the lexipro because I don't have
to deal with the anxiety or the depress anymore. But
I cannot get any sensation in my vagina whatsoever. So
what is betraying mood? I'm sorry, but that would make

(44:11):
me depressed.

Speaker 5 (44:12):
You know, some women get to that point anyway, so
they don't give a fuck with the drugs. I mean,
I'm not to just leave men out of the equation.
Some people get to the like mundane stages of life
and they're sex to have goes.

Speaker 3 (44:25):
But then you throw this on top of that.

Speaker 4 (44:28):
But that's besides the point. Think of what they do
to Like, some of the most creative kids who are
quote unquote what HyperAct is troubled. So when I was
in like what you were saying, maybe middle school, Uh,
the teachers would tell my mom like she's got kind
of like her head in the clouds all the time,

(44:50):
like she doesn't really want to focus on her assignments
and stuff. She's always like doodling and doing whatever and
talking to her friends and passing notes. And we I
think that she could she might benefit from maybe like
adderall or something that could help with focus. And my
mom was always like no for that stuff because I

(45:10):
was just a normal kid. I just didn't like really.

Speaker 3 (45:13):
So what sold her on the antipsychotic.

Speaker 4 (45:17):
They put a warrant out for my arrest because I
was not going to school.

Speaker 5 (45:23):
I remember you talking about this on an old episode
of Deplorable Nation, shut Out, Janet.

Speaker 4 (45:28):
Yeah, they put a warrant out for my arrest because
I stopped going to school altogether because I was like,
fuck all this shit. And when we went to court,
the court ordered me to see this psychiatrist who wanted
to put me on antipsychotic medicine. And she wanted me

(45:49):
to take this antipsychotic medicine and she wanted me to
go to this Laurel Wood Encampment place and paint pictures
or whatever like that's supposed to help. And then after
all that was done, I still ended up having to
go to jail and they didn't even give me my fucking.

Speaker 10 (46:17):
What.

Speaker 4 (46:19):
They didn't even give me my drugs when I was
in jail. So how was that supposed to help?

Speaker 5 (46:25):
You know, they say jail's one of the easiest places
to get drugs if.

Speaker 4 (46:29):
You want them, not Sarah quill, what was the point
of do you want no? But I'm just saying, what
was the point of going through with all that and
just to end up still having to go to jail
sitting there eating fucking fruit cups.

Speaker 5 (46:42):
And it's kind of like what we were talking about
yesterday with where you were at that job where they
wanted you to get the COVID shot and they just
dangled all this stuff in front of you, small threats.
None of it stuck with you, and then they're just
like fuck it, let it slide. Yeah, but you and
your mom, it sounds like there you know, you would

(47:03):
hit a point where something needed to change. I mean,
I just as a parent, even if I didn't know,
I mean who the fuck knows. I can't imagine not
knowing all this stuff that we've learned through all this
conspiracy research. But to put a fucking kid on a
drug that forever changes their personality, whether they stay on

(47:26):
it or not.

Speaker 3 (47:28):
What just seems like such a very long You know
a lot of them, you're good.

Speaker 5 (47:34):
But some of these ones they put like suicidal depressed
people on, there's no turning back. It's like ozimpic for
the mind.

Speaker 4 (47:46):
I mean, that's a good way to put it. But anyways,
that's my segue.

Speaker 5 (47:49):
Into ozimpic frontal cortex instead of ozimpic volva.

Speaker 4 (47:53):
I think they all give you ozimpic frontal cortex. I mean,
I don't know why I said, you're fucking pharmaceutical level.

Speaker 3 (48:01):
Well here's the other thing.

Speaker 5 (48:02):
We're not gonna go a deep dive into these SSRIs,
but anybody who wants to, and there's a lot of
great podcasters out there who have done that. When you
look at like what they know about serotonin and what
they know about what causes depression, these fucking SSRIs are
a shot in the dark.

Speaker 3 (48:23):
They rarely work on people. I think it's like just
going on memory.

Speaker 5 (48:27):
I think it's around like twenty percent of people report
like positive changes. Other people say like, yeah, it just
helps keep.

Speaker 3 (48:35):
Them baseline and afloat.

Speaker 5 (48:37):
And then there's the fucking other outliers, which it's a
huge it's not even an outlier. I shouldn't even say
that word. It's more like casualties. People who fucking do
kill themselves because these things take the edge off, or
they go on them and then they don't like what
they do, then they stop taking them, and then they
kill themselves. I mean, there's all sorts of ways this goes,
but the success rate is dog shit and it's amazing

(49:01):
to me that they keep fucking cranking them out there
because people want to look at like the opioid pandemic
or pandemic the opioid epidemic, and they want to look
at other things, but the SSR eyes. I think in
like one hundred years, we're gonna look back and go,
what the fuck were we doing.

Speaker 3 (49:18):
I think it's gonna be like the lobotomy.

Speaker 4 (49:20):
Yes, I know, you know what I think is working
for some people and they don't even realize it. I
don't think it's got anything to do with the serotonin uptake. Whatever.
I think it's florid because it's the fluoride.

Speaker 5 (49:33):
Yeah, and it's not even like they've found things now
they're putting in these things that are better than florid
at numbing you. Like florid was the bit like where
they started doing this, And now they've found all sorts
of new chemicals that I wouldn't want to think they'd
ever put in the drinking water, but I wouldn't put
it past them either. I mean, if you're gonna put

(49:54):
florid in the drinking water, what wouldn't you do?

Speaker 4 (49:58):
Yeah, poison the town waters. Apply that's all you have.
Buy a warfare man, that's what it is.

Speaker 5 (50:03):
Well, yeah, and they've been doing it in smaller ways
to all of us, to the people who don't get
institutionalized or go through the mental health system. Is frequencies
and all sorts of shit that we all are.

Speaker 3 (50:16):
A subject to.

Speaker 4 (50:17):
Like we don't take any pharmaceuticals, right and uh recreationally
occasionally but not for the most part. But no, like
organ doesn't fluorinate their water, and we're not taking serotonin
uptake inhibitors or whatever the fuck. But imagine being in
a state that already fluorinates the water chlorinates.

Speaker 3 (50:40):
What that's what we're gonna call it?

Speaker 4 (50:44):
What is it called? Just keep going, I'm sorry, is
that not what it's called.

Speaker 3 (50:49):
I think it's floridata.

Speaker 4 (50:51):
They put fluoride in the water. They're on prozac, and
you know they're getting blasted with fucking for a date,
fluorinates whatever, Babe. I'm just saying people are getting fucked up.

Speaker 5 (51:11):
Yeah, and we're gonna segue into some of the darker
stuff at some point.

Speaker 3 (51:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (51:16):
I would say that the pharmaceutical angle of it, as
dark as it is, it's like, uh seven or a
six on the scale that they have created on what
they're willing to do to mentally ill people who a
lot of the times are not even mentally ill.

Speaker 3 (51:36):
And don't even get me or any of them really well.

Speaker 4 (51:39):
I was gonna say, don't, and don't even get me
started on like how it's targeted towards women too. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (51:45):
I actually have come across that stat quite a few times.

Speaker 4 (51:49):
It's just like the lobotomies.

Speaker 5 (51:52):
Well, you know, we're just making up for the other
ways that you guys aren't always getting attentioned.

Speaker 4 (51:57):
Well, imagine like your prescribed birth control pills, prozac, you
have zimpic.

Speaker 5 (52:04):
You have to walk around the street knowing that every
guy that looks at you is thinking about your a JJ.

Speaker 4 (52:10):
They think about how this is targeted towards women though.

Speaker 5 (52:13):
It's like, especially like when it first came onto the
scene in modern day culture, it was basically only women.
Hysteria was not something that you would say a man was,
you know, suffering from.

Speaker 4 (52:25):
Yeah, but it's like, oh, women are crazy women this
women that it's like we've been literally driven to the
point of like a pharmaceutical fucking lobotomy. And then people
wonders why women is all emotionally.

Speaker 5 (52:38):
Ye broad and not even to leave out that the
damage that they do mentally to females in this society. Reproductively,
they fuck you too because a lot of this.

Speaker 3 (52:49):
Shit and you are one who can speak to this.

Speaker 5 (52:53):
A lot of the stuff that they intervene with for
other things they want to fix, it just fucks up
your reproductive system and ways that you'll never recover from.

Speaker 4 (53:03):
Yeah, your avocable damage, irreversible.

Speaker 5 (53:07):
And we've talked this is a little personal, but we've
talked about your mom with her cancer, Yeah, breast cancer,
and she had taken a some kind of hormone, I assume,
but she had taken some kind of mistigical intervention for breastfeeding.
She didn't want to lac date and you got to wonder,
like I wonder if that causes cancer?

Speaker 4 (53:25):
Three times she did it. Yeah, But so this is
this is why I say it leads into the psychiatry aspect,
which we both have a lot of notes on this
documentary we watched. But so I went to one of
these places. It was literally called Laurel Wood, and it
was like for for addition, so you were teenagers.

Speaker 5 (53:46):
Destined from day whatever to have a wood for Laurel Canyon.

Speaker 4 (53:54):
I didn't even think about it day.

Speaker 3 (53:56):
I've thought about it the first time I heard you
say it.

Speaker 4 (53:58):
Yeah, it was called Laurel Wood.

Speaker 3 (54:00):
We both have Laurel Woods.

Speaker 4 (54:03):
But yeah, No, this place was for distraught teenagers who
were and they were all they basically it was a
bunch of teenagers who were all doped up on whatever
antipsychotic of the month that they were prescribing, and they
would they would make you sit in a circle and
talk about nothing literally. And you know, I had a

(54:31):
roommates or whatever that I still have on Facebook, and
every now and again, she'll send me a message and
be like, you know, I see you're doing good in life.
I'm glad things worked out for you if she's doing
good too. But it's like, I don't know, you just
kind of bond over that because you both kind of
look at each other and think to yourself, how the
fuck did we get here?

Speaker 3 (54:50):
Yeah, it's like soldiers coming home for more. And I
will say that the thing they did to men in.

Speaker 5 (55:02):
These early eras drafting, sending to kill people overseas, that
was like our big fucking depression. And you women have
the mental health industry popping.

Speaker 3 (55:19):
Up similar times.

Speaker 5 (55:22):
Like men had to on a queue if their number
was called, go fight people for whatever. And you guys
were not allowed to show emotion. I keep saying you guys,
you gals were not allowed to show emotion, not allowed
to disobey your husband under most any circumstance, because otherwise

(55:43):
you could be declared hysterical or insane.

Speaker 4 (55:47):
I mean, think about I mean.

Speaker 5 (55:49):
Just look at that era of what it did to
both genders and now they don't even have any.

Speaker 4 (55:55):
No shit. But I mean, in these places, it to me,
I have like a PTSD thing about it because it
felt like it felt like you were literally scum. They
would watch you shower, watch you undress and dress, they

(56:18):
would pat you down and rub your crotch and do
all kinds of stuff to make sure you weren't smuggling
a blade to try to kill yourself. And the food the.

Speaker 3 (56:28):
True to deter people from suicide.

Speaker 4 (56:33):
I'm just saying I was. I was in tenth grade, babe,
tenth grade, and then I went to jail on top
of that, and sometimes, you know, with all the story,
my dad was a psychopath and he would always get
admitted into these places and we'd have to go visit him.
And when I see it in a movie even I
get like triggered, like my god, because once you've been

(56:56):
in there and they don't let you out.

Speaker 5 (56:59):
So next week to be a fun episode, right, all
the triggering fucking pop culture.

Speaker 4 (57:04):
But I've tried to explain it to you. I know,
I don't let you out until they're ready to let
you out. You can beg cry, scream for your.

Speaker 5 (57:12):
Mom, and that actually, in their minds makes them think
you need to be in there longer if you act
out because you don't want to be a fucking prisoner,
which same people do not enjoy being fucking locked away.

Speaker 4 (57:26):
No, they would let you. They would let me call
my mom like once a week. It was horrible. But anyways,
this is what's gonna seguees into the psychiatry aspect. I
sent you a documentary to watch. It popped up randomly
on my YouTube because I was looking for other things
about the Willows Brooks State School, and it said, Uh,

(57:49):
what was the title, like, craziest Psychiatry? Uh, something.

Speaker 5 (57:58):
Corrupt psychiatric spittles in the US from the nineteen nineties.

Speaker 4 (58:03):
Our life is it BBC, isn't it?

Speaker 5 (58:07):
Or I don't know what it is, something like that,
some kind.

Speaker 4 (58:10):
Of sometimes with the accent is naring.

Speaker 3 (58:14):
Yeah, and I will when it comes around to me
on this.

Speaker 5 (58:16):
I do have a few clips that I have pulled
from here just because they speak better than we could
describe what they're saying.

Speaker 4 (58:25):
And you know, anyway, So what was your thoughts about
the documentary? Overview?

Speaker 15 (58:35):
Uh?

Speaker 5 (58:37):
To give people just a little background on it. It's
a documentary looks like it was made in the nineties,
and the thing that was going on was the focus
of the documentary was happening in Houston. It seemed to
be a modern situation where this guy who went by
doctor Mark Bolin, he had falsified his creditdentials and he

(59:02):
came up with.

Speaker 3 (59:02):
This scheme.

Speaker 5 (59:06):
Where it was basically a privatized kidnapping situation where they
would funnel in people into an institution through therapists, doctors.
There was even some ties to suicide hotline, and every
step of the way, they mainly took people who were

(59:30):
insured privately, so they knew they could bleed money.

Speaker 3 (59:34):
And it's funny too.

Speaker 5 (59:35):
A lot of these people got out of it by
saying that my insurance isn't any good anymore, or they
noticed the coverage was gone. But anyway, every step of
the way, they're just bleeding dollars and dollars and dollars.
And there is places where, like what Juliet was talking
about earlier, they had one physician on staff for thirty

(59:56):
to thirty five people, and they would call in doctor
to make rounds, ask how are you feeling today? And
every patient was like one hundred bucks, and this doctor
would just go around to like thirty people. Now we'll
get into how they were getting these people in there,
but my overall thoughts on it was I was a

(01:00:16):
little shocked that this was going on this late. I'm
sure it still is on smaller levels, but this was
just an out in the open scheme. And they even
have this marketing real and they market for it. They have,
like I imagine during soap operas during the day or

(01:00:38):
like late night TV, these infomercials with one eight hundred
numbers for these places, trying to get your kids, trying
to get anybody who felt a little emotionally unstable. But yeah,
why don't you go over your thoughts on it first,
and then I have some some of the situations I
want to talk about what you might cover on your own,
and then I won't have to. But I also had

(01:00:58):
like two or three shortish clips from it that I
thought would be cool to share.

Speaker 4 (01:01:04):
Yeah, I'm glad you did that too, because I didn't
have any clips queued up. But I think it's important
for people, if they don't want to watch the entire documentary,
to see at least some parts of it. Because I
saw the title, I.

Speaker 3 (01:01:20):
Mean it could even put in the show notes the
link to it.

Speaker 4 (01:01:23):
Yeah, I will.

Speaker 17 (01:01:24):
So.

Speaker 4 (01:01:25):
I was watching the Willow Brooks State School with Heraldo Rivera.
This was in the side panel for like the recommended say,
corrupt psychiatric hospitals in the US from the nineteen nineties,
and I did that nineties mini series and I was like, Oh,
that's so interesting that it was some type of corrupt

(01:01:46):
hospitals in the nineties. I wonder what they were doing.
And I clicked on it and I was just, you know,
working on my notes. I think I maybe did some dishes,
jumped in the shower, and I was listening to it
in the background, and there were parts that came up
in the documentary where I literally just stopped and I

(01:02:07):
was like, what the fuck, what the actual fuck? I mean,
these people were getting kidnapped, they were getting and some
of their lives were absolutely ruined by this.

Speaker 5 (01:02:21):
Normal everyday people living normal everyday lives, having normal everyday
problems became victims of this thing.

Speaker 4 (01:02:29):
Yeah, and some of them got their kids taken away,
some of them.

Speaker 5 (01:02:34):
Yeah, We've got some examples that will show clips of,
but one of them is I think it's one of
the first ones they talk about, and Julia and I
both remembered it because it's crazy. This married couple had
an eighteen month old child and they were trying to
save their marriage and the husband was even quoted in
the documentary as saying, I wasn't trying to save it

(01:02:57):
for sheer. I I was mainly focused on saving it
for child, which say what you want about that, I
don't agree with it. Some people want to avoid divorce altogether.
But if you can't get your shit together, get out
for the sake of the kid. Don't stay for the
sake of the kid. But his head was in the
right place. He wanted to save it. So they were
in couple's therapy and one day he didn't hear back

(01:03:18):
from her after their session, and he called around and finally,
like at eleven o'clock at night, he got a call
back from a doctor said she.

Speaker 4 (01:03:26):
Had been his wife.

Speaker 5 (01:03:28):
Yeah, had been held at a facility, and he ended
up finding where it was and going there, and it
took him some trouble to get in, and once he
got in, he got surrounded. He never saw his wife,
and then they committed him and they and what they
do is they have this twenty eight day program where

(01:03:50):
you are a prisoner. Sometimes some of these examples that
were brought up in the documentary, people were lucky enough
to get a hold of law enforcement and get some
like good people working on that indto things to like
intervene and get you the fuck out of there, But
most of these people didn't.

Speaker 3 (01:04:09):
And this went on for years. I mean the attorney
general of texts.

Speaker 5 (01:04:12):
Of so this was in Houston, yeah, Texas, and I
don't know if it was the local attorney general or
the state, but they stepped in and caught this guy,
found out that his credentials were fucking forged, and he
would get these doctors to like play along and get
rich with him in the process. And a lot of

(01:04:32):
these people they interview in the documentary or doctors that
said fuck you know, but how many said yes enough
to get And they also emphasize in the documentary that
this is not an isolated event.

Speaker 3 (01:04:44):
This happens a lot everywhere. And this was in the nineties.

Speaker 5 (01:04:47):
And I'm not to just assume that it's gone away altogether.

Speaker 4 (01:04:50):
No, I would say, if anything, they've just gotten more
slick about how they run it. Yeah, you want to
play your clip.

Speaker 5 (01:04:59):
Yeah, So so we talked about one instance with the
married couple. Okay, so this guy and I think they
do set it up.

Speaker 3 (01:05:07):
A little bit.

Speaker 5 (01:05:07):
I don't remember how much they say, but basically just
a normal guy with the health ailment gets a surgery
that ended up being pretty serious, and he gets thrown
into this fucking weird system.

Speaker 18 (01:05:21):
I've had eighteen major surgeries in almost forty five hours
under the knife in the last three years.

Speaker 11 (01:05:29):
A surgeon's knife had left Roy Shannon with no spleen
and most of his intestines and bowels removed. He was
in intense pain. In the process, he'd becomes seriously addicted
to painkillers and heavy drugs. To counter his pain and addiction.
He was referred to a PIA hospital in Dallas.

Speaker 18 (01:05:50):
The telephone conversation that I had with doctor Leon to
Brookhaven Psychiatric Hospital had assured me that he could get
me on the road recovery.

Speaker 3 (01:06:00):
Very nice picture, but that's not what happened.

Speaker 18 (01:06:04):
He diagnosed me on the phone as being a manic depressive.

Speaker 19 (01:06:09):
We found that UH Brooke caven Is is probably one
of the uh UH worst actors UH in, at least
in the state. We think primarily because of the clientele
that they are usually able to attract UH out there,
but also because they employ some unusual forms of psychological
therapy that UH are still in testing stages of. For

(01:06:32):
for most uh reasonable practitioners.

Speaker 18 (01:06:35):
Their plan for detoxification is, uh they strap you to
a bed in uh leather restraints and what hadn't.

Speaker 3 (01:06:47):
Uh you're left there.

Speaker 18 (01:06:52):
I was left that way through the night, and they
had strapped me during the During that time, my legs
were spread, my arms were down to the side of
the bed, and they were distrapped with a kind of
like a leather bands to the bed rails. You're left
with a boalbum that has no control as a baby has.
And it's like staying in dirty diapers, you know, for

(01:07:13):
through the evening into the night, all night into the
next day. And then you're someone comes in and unstraps
you and tells you to get up and clean yourself
up and let's go to a meeting.

Speaker 15 (01:07:25):
How is that supposed to tut you off drugs?

Speaker 18 (01:07:30):
I have no idea how that cuts you from drugs?

Speaker 17 (01:07:32):
Uh.

Speaker 18 (01:07:34):
I mean they restrain you and restrict yous. There's it's
like a cold turkey type thing. I felt dejected and rejected.
I felt hurt abused.

Speaker 5 (01:07:46):
So that's one instance, and I do think it's a
little more mild than some of them. But this just
to emphasize that this was a guy, through no fault
of his own, had a health problem, some serious surgeries
that would change the rest of his physical life anyway,
and then he gets addicted to painkillers.

Speaker 4 (01:08:08):
Imagine, no, hun, they took most of his bows, his spleen,
he's got just shits on himself like a baby, and
they strap him down to shit on himself throughout the night.
And this was supposed to be good for his mental

(01:08:29):
health situation. Yes, just I mean, think of this. Did
you see the look on that poor man's face.

Speaker 3 (01:08:44):
Yeah, I mean, you gotta wonder painiful.

Speaker 5 (01:08:47):
They don't really talk about, you know, how long he
was in there. I assumed he stayed the full twenty
eight days, but they did make him go cold turkey
and say what you want about that, just.

Speaker 4 (01:08:59):
The him down and make him shit on it.

Speaker 5 (01:09:03):
Just the whole inhumane treatment of a guy who, yeah,
through no fault of his own, you're depressed. Well, yeah,
I just had half of my innards removed, fucking red.

Speaker 4 (01:09:17):
But think about this, it's the nineties, right, dope sick.
They probably put him on fire, oh he was. They
probably put.

Speaker 5 (01:09:24):
Him before he was out the door of the hospital.
He's popping those things like smarties, garing fucking teed.

Speaker 4 (01:09:31):
So they get him addicted first off to the pain medication.

Speaker 3 (01:09:35):
And then they wonder why he's depressed.

Speaker 4 (01:09:36):
And then they wonder why he's depressed.

Speaker 3 (01:09:38):
Have you ever met an up aty junkie?

Speaker 4 (01:09:41):
But maybe they get you addicted this stuff and then
they're like, you're depressed, and then they they.

Speaker 5 (01:09:46):
Just then he gets and he doesn't even get into
a good just say what you want about this overall
state of the above board psychiatric care facilities. He gets
roped into this fake one that just bleeds them with
money and treats them a piece of meat.

Speaker 4 (01:10:02):
I mean.

Speaker 5 (01:10:05):
But the other aspect of this was, as always with
any fucking dark scheme, the biggest victims end up being children.
And I've got a couple more clips to demonstrate that,
but I do want to show you first before we
move into that angle of it. And actually it's just

(01:10:26):
going to show one of their basic ass infomercial things
and then it moves into like targeting kids.

Speaker 6 (01:10:35):
I still can't believe what our son's problems did to
our family. The screaming, the fights, and everything to do
with school was just a nightmare.

Speaker 13 (01:10:49):
I finally realized we had to find some help.

Speaker 3 (01:10:53):
Everything okay, it.

Speaker 12 (01:10:55):
Sure is if you are trying to deal with a
troubled teenager called they would hospital now at seven one, three, three, three,
two nine five zero.

Speaker 17 (01:11:04):
A lot of parents don't know their teenager is headed
for trouble until the school tells them. They have no
idea how much trouble he's really in until school gets out.
They hope the problem will get better over the summer,
until it gets worse. The truth is, some parents don't
want to believe there's a problem at all until there's
no solution. Don't let your teenager waste another school year.

(01:11:27):
Specialized care just for kids.

Speaker 19 (01:11:31):
Clearly, the thing that's affected me the most is the
way that this industry has insidiously gotten itself involved with
the children, and they do so in a variety in
a variety of ways. The most blatant example is the
way that psychiatric facilities in Texas have obtained a presence

(01:11:53):
in school counseling facilities in independent school districts throughout the state.
And it's such an incitia way for them to get business,
that is, through the school districts and by way of
praying on minors. That's the thing that really troubles me.

Speaker 11 (01:12:09):
The most psychiatric hospitals placed their own counselors in American schools.
In Texas, investigations and now underway in twenty four school
districts for illegal referrals to their hospitals.

Speaker 20 (01:12:28):
When we started admitting children as young as two and
three years of age, that gets you a little bit.
And then the adolescent program, it was easy to admit
those patients and we knew they were going to stay
for a long time and they had no say in
the admission, so they'd be there for sixty to ninety days.

Speaker 21 (01:12:52):
We've seen the referrals being made by school counselors, people
that as we grow up in life, we've we've been
taught to put our trust in and instead, many many
times our schools become pipelines for our students into these
private hospitals and sometimes if possible, in many cases we

(01:13:13):
heard where that was used to pull not just the
child in, but the parents as well.

Speaker 15 (01:13:24):
And al.

Speaker 22 (01:13:28):
Be careful now.

Speaker 11 (01:13:30):
Corticia Dupre had just had her fourth birthday when she
was referred for a consultation at Laurel Wood, a p
I a hospital in Houston.

Speaker 23 (01:13:39):
There Burwood, you can't do it, You did it?

Speaker 4 (01:13:45):
Okay, you wanna come down?

Speaker 11 (01:13:47):
Her mother, Laisha, suspected the child that had been sexually abused, not.

Speaker 4 (01:13:52):
From up there.

Speaker 11 (01:13:54):
P i A persuaded her that Quarticia needed immediate hospitalization.
They suggested she stay with a child for four days
to keep her company.

Speaker 23 (01:14:08):
After the four days were up, I was ready to go,
and they were trying to keep me there. I kept saying, hey,
I want to get out of here. You know, my
time is up, and she kept saying that, no, I
really think it's something inside you that's wanting to come
out and will come out, and it's going to be
a nasty sight, you know. And I'm like, I don't care,
you know, even if so, I'm ready to go, and

(01:14:29):
you know, they just refuse and refuse and refused. So
at that time I decided to start saying, hey, I'm
not gonna pay insurance.

Speaker 11 (01:14:38):
The hospital's attitude towards Leisha changed. They separated her from
her child until one evening she was summons to the
children's units.

Speaker 23 (01:14:48):
Next thing I know, she said, grab her and this
guy before I can even turn my head, he grabbed me.
And then the guy that called me to have me
to come over there from the beginning. He comes out,
you know, finally and he say strap and it's like
they went around the corner to get to s you know,
the strap, and it it was like everything was just
set up because it took them less than a you

(01:15:09):
know second to grab me and less than you know,
maybe two or three seconds to get the strap. And
he took his knees, the guy that was holding he
took his knees and bitten my knees in and brought
me down to the floor and uh, he like stumbled,
you know, t f fell on top of me. When
I kind of started going off. Then I was like,
what are you doing to me? You know, let me go,
Let me go, And uh my daughter was standing there

(01:15:33):
the whole time, watching everything, and that's when I said
to them, just please get her out of here. Don't
let her see this, you know, and she was just
up there crying and hurt me for her to have
to see me being treated that way.

Speaker 11 (01:15:50):
Hospital records show that Pia asked four year old Cortitia
whether she'd ever thought of suicide.

Speaker 23 (01:16:00):
I was so desperate I called the police department and
that's when I got a hold of the chief.

Speaker 16 (01:16:04):
Canto well, it was a Saturday and I had come
in to do some extra work and the phone rang
and I answered it, and it was a UH woman
requesting assistance that uh, she was being detained against her
will in a hospital and that she was not a

(01:16:24):
patient there.

Speaker 23 (01:16:27):
I guess when you were in a mental hospital or
whatever the hospital it was, people aren't gonna listen to
you cause they gonna think you crazy. But you know
that's not really the case.

Speaker 16 (01:16:39):
I went in there with the intention of trying to
do a constructive investigation. I felt that Leisha was telling
me the truth. This other gentleman, I felt that, uh,
he was holding back, he wasn't being cooperative. Uh, he
wasn't giving me the information I needed, uh, evasive, and
finally I felt that he was playing games with me,
and I wasn't gonna put up with it. She told

(01:17:01):
me right there in front of him she wanted to
be let out. And I asked him, I said, are
you going to let her out?

Speaker 3 (01:17:06):
And he said no.

Speaker 16 (01:17:07):
I said, well, we'll see about that. I came back
to my office, I started making some phone calls to
some judges and state representatives, and I got a phone
call within about two hours that they had decided to
let her go, So.

Speaker 3 (01:17:29):
Is somewhat happy ending there.

Speaker 4 (01:17:33):
Dude, that is literally kidnapping.

Speaker 5 (01:17:40):
Yeah, And I also I didn't clip this one, but
it's noteworthy, and I would recommend anybody who's intrigued by
these clips that we've shown and the stuff we've talked
about with it to watch the whole thing. It's like
forty eight minutes long. Yeah, it's a quick watch. And
another instance was this fourteen year old kid named I
think Jeremy, was living with what appeared to be.

Speaker 3 (01:18:03):
A grandmother and a grandfather.

Speaker 5 (01:18:06):
And somebody from the school sent over somebody to snag
him and take him to this place, and she wouldn't
let him go, and they ended up saying to her,
and this is something fucking cops always do, Well, you
can make it easy.

Speaker 3 (01:18:25):
You can let him come with us right.

Speaker 5 (01:18:26):
Now and we'll hold him for twenty four hours, or
you can fight this and we'll come back with a
court order and hold him for the full.

Speaker 3 (01:18:33):
Twenty eight days.

Speaker 5 (01:18:34):
And she fought it tooth and now she called a lawyer,
she called the cops, and they ended up being able
to take him anyway despite her best efforts. And then
they couldn't even figure out where he was. And they
finally got in there, they weren't allowed to see him.
He had to do the full twenty eight days. And
like Julia just said, this is literally kidnapping kid was

(01:18:57):
a minor.

Speaker 3 (01:19:00):
His guardians would not.

Speaker 5 (01:19:04):
Comply with the orders of you know, he needs to
be incarcerated, and they did it anyway. Like we said
when we introduced this, they did end up becoming the
subject of a heavy investigation, and I do believe it
all got shut down. But they also emphasized that this
is just one of many and this guy was playing

(01:19:26):
fast and loose, And I'm starting to wonder the counselors.
So yeah, this guy recruited counselors. This guy recruited doctors,
talk therapists. They're even doing some shit through the suicide hotlines.
Like I said earlier, but I'm starting to wonder if
this Mark Bolling guy. To tie it into stuff we
always talk about, it could be a pretty good segue

(01:19:48):
into our travel back in time to mk ULTR. But
if Mark Bollan wasn't under the employ of some nefarious
triple letter whatever.

Speaker 4 (01:19:58):
Have you, absolutely did you look to see if he
ever got incarcerated for this.

Speaker 5 (01:20:04):
No, and in fact, I think maybe we should before
we in the episode tonight at the end of it,
because I was kind of rushed and researching this documentary
and I.

Speaker 3 (01:20:13):
Ended up getting a lot of nuggets out of it.

Speaker 5 (01:20:15):
I'm glad you sent it to me, but a follow
up on mister fake doctor Mark Bollen it would be
worth it.

Speaker 3 (01:20:23):
Also looking into old Klaus.

Speaker 4 (01:20:26):
Yeah, well, you know that's one of the things I
love the most about you. Because I watched it, I
thought you would find it interesting. I sent it to you.
You watched it. You was also shook by some of
the stories in there, and it's like this was the nineties.

Speaker 3 (01:20:48):
I was alive and a little kid when this stuff.

Speaker 5 (01:20:52):
Was going on.

Speaker 3 (01:20:54):
But I'm just saying, think of how this is our lifetime.

Speaker 4 (01:20:56):
Escalated, think about how things can.

Speaker 5 (01:20:59):
Well I'm to cap this episode off with that in mind,
because you don't pay attention much to modern day politics
or moves made in that area.

Speaker 3 (01:21:13):
But we will close off with where it might be going,
and we might be going fucking backwards.

Speaker 4 (01:21:19):
Who well, do you have anything else about this psychiatry
thing before we kind of touch on mk Ultra.

Speaker 5 (01:21:28):
Oh, yes, some of the finer points that I felt
were worth writing down from this documentary. Where as we've
tracked in the movement and growth of this industry. We'll
call it psychiatric care to you know, sugarcoat it like
they would. It's basically state sand kitchen fucking imprisonment. Yeah,

(01:21:52):
under the guise of mental health care. But this industry
doubled in the eighties, and we did in last episode
kind of track the girl both of it from last
centuries spilling over or the nineteenth centuries spilling over into
the twentieth century.

Speaker 3 (01:22:06):
And now we're talking about right here.

Speaker 5 (01:22:08):
So this shit doubled in the eighties, and it was
the biggest in Texas. As this documentary the focus point
was Houston, Texas, but apparently that was big in that state.
But by the nineties, when they were making this documentary,
it was a fifty billion.

Speaker 3 (01:22:24):
Dollar a year industry.

Speaker 5 (01:22:25):
And one can only imagine where it's at today.

Speaker 4 (01:22:30):
In the nineties, if it was a fifty billion dollar
a year industry, you can just quadruple that number probably,
and that's where we're at now, I would assume. But
does that number include the pharmaceuticals.

Speaker 5 (01:22:47):
No, this is just this is just the scheme of
filtering people through all these different avenues into the psychiatric
imprisonment that itself through. As it was demonstrated in this documentary.
All that money is basically coming from privatized insurance and
this is privatized psychiatric care. So I am a capitalist

(01:23:09):
over a socialist at the end of the day. But
unregulated capitalism and regulation isn't even the fucking answer because
that oftentimes it's just one hand washing the other as well.
But with this, you have privatized insurance with meats, privatized
psychiatric care, and you can just get this big loop

(01:23:31):
of money exchange. And when you throw the pharmaceuticals into it,
we could look and see what the number is.

Speaker 3 (01:23:38):
I'm imagining it's much more than fifty billion a year.

Speaker 5 (01:23:42):
In the nineties, it was kind of really taking off
heading towards its peak.

Speaker 3 (01:23:48):
So yeah, it'd be interesting to see what that market
was as well.

Speaker 5 (01:23:52):
But just from the psychiatric care alone, you're talking fifty
billion a year in the nineties.

Speaker 4 (01:23:57):
So would you agree with me when I say stuff
like the reason that there's no cure for cancer is
because the treatments are worth billions and there's there's no
cure for schizophrenia or mental illnesses like this, because the
treatments are worth billions. I mean, they don't want people

(01:24:20):
to get well, they don't want people to get better.
They don't want somebody to find out that acupuncture can
take away the fucking shadow people at night.

Speaker 5 (01:24:29):
Well, and I would argue that the cure for cancer
is one hund preventative. Preventative care.

Speaker 4 (01:24:38):
Say you get cancer, right.

Speaker 5 (01:24:40):
And then you revert back to what you would have
done to not get cancer in the first place, to
hope your body rights itself.

Speaker 3 (01:24:46):
You know, sometimes people.

Speaker 5 (01:24:48):
Do go through these radiation slash chemo treatments and they're younger,
healthier people, and they do bounce back. I have a
fucking family member. He's married to my grandmother. He's basically
my grandpa.

Speaker 3 (01:24:59):
They married.

Speaker 5 (01:24:59):
I as like sixteen, but he goes in and out
of cancer treatment every few years. It just keeps popping
up and he keeps killing it, but it keeps coming back.
And then you got to wonder is the treatment causing
the cancer to come back and killing it?

Speaker 3 (01:25:14):
But anyway, there are outliers that do get better.

Speaker 5 (01:25:16):
But for the most part, I mean, there was a
guy in like the mid fuck where was he.

Speaker 3 (01:25:22):
I want to give a time frame here.

Speaker 5 (01:25:24):
I would say it was in the fifties or sooner.
He was doing intervenious vitamin C treatments for cancer patients,
and they completely buried this guy. I'm not saying that
I think that's the overall answer to cancer, but it's
funny that they also suppressed vitamin treatments.

Speaker 3 (01:25:44):
That were popping up during COVID.

Speaker 4 (01:25:46):
Funny because when my mom had cancer, I found that
guy and I told my mom about the vitamin C
and I was like, would you because there are these
little places that have popped up recently where you can
just go get in few with whatever vitamins and stuff.
And I asked her if she would do it, but
at that point she had kind of succumbed to I'd

(01:26:09):
just done trying, and I don't want.

Speaker 5 (01:26:11):
To do any of I'm gonna do what the doctors recommend.
But yeah, so, yeah, they don't want a cure. They
want a slow drip treatment system that doesn't aim towards betterment.

Speaker 4 (01:26:28):
So I think it's the same with mental illness. I
think throwing pills in psychiatry at this stuff is not
the solution. I think that the guy from the first episode.
The African guy had a lot of great points made
about how we do it completely asked backwards.

Speaker 5 (01:26:46):
Well, imagine if he would have seen this shit. He
was over here when this shit was taken off and
doubled in the eighties. But imagine if that guy had
walked into this place.

Speaker 4 (01:26:55):
Imagine if he would have walked into the Willowbrooks State
School with naked kids throwing shit, and.

Speaker 3 (01:27:00):
And maybe he saw stuff like that.

Speaker 4 (01:27:02):
I mean, it just I don't know Han's it's a mess.
What do you got on himk.

Speaker 5 (01:27:08):
Ultra, Well, this is a topic that is near and
dear to me in my other show, I guess I'm
saying other show. I consider myself a permanent co host
on yours.

Speaker 3 (01:27:22):
Yeah, but on my other show.

Speaker 5 (01:27:25):
And don't worry, there will be things I don't do
with her for those people who like her alone better,
I understand I do too. So what anyway, I have
done a pretty good amount of research, and damn k Ultra,
and I came into it through my.

Speaker 3 (01:27:42):
Interest in how they weaponized LSD. But that really isn't
in all of this.

Speaker 5 (01:27:49):
It is going to be in some of the stuff
I bring up because it was prevalently a part of it.
But basically what you'll come to find was in the
fifth these spilling over into the sixties kind of getting
tossed around some congressional regulation attempts where they mainly drove

(01:28:11):
this shit underground. It still happens, of course, we all
know that. But they were doing a knee open with
Sydney Gottlieb, not Frank Olson, Sydney Gottlieb's mk Ultra program.
And I had come across a doctor named You and Cameron,
and he was operating out of Montreal, Canada, and he's

(01:28:32):
a very interesting character. And I have a couple articles
that talk about the Montreal hospital. But keep in mind
that this shit was going on very prevalently in the
mental health industry, in schools for gifted kids or special

(01:28:54):
needs kids, more often prisons.

Speaker 3 (01:28:58):
So they would get these.

Speaker 5 (01:28:59):
People on board that we're working directly with the CIA,
and they were doing all sorts of mind control experiments,
and in You and Cameron's case, he was focused on
the surface level of curing things such as schizophrenia.

Speaker 3 (01:29:17):
And I have a few articles, but we're also going.

Speaker 5 (01:29:20):
To watch some clips where you'll see how dark some
of this stuff got and how it spills over into
all of our favorite conspiratorial topics with brainwashing.

Speaker 3 (01:29:36):
Project Monarch and the likes.

Speaker 5 (01:29:39):
But we'll start with me reading off my cracked screen.
It's an article from the Canadian Encyclopedia written by Taylor C.
Noakes between nineteen fifty seven and nineteen sixty four, though
possibly beginning as early as nineteen forty eight. Psychiatric experiments

(01:30:02):
were conducted at the Allen Memorial Institute in Montreal, a
psychiatric teaching hospital affiliated with McGill University. Scottish American psychiatrist
doctor Donald Ewen Cameron led and conducted these experiments. The
program is widely believed to have been partly funded by
the US Central Intelligence Agency as part of their top

(01:30:22):
secret mk ULTR program. The Canadian government also funded the project.
The experiment's purpose was originally and officially listed as an
effort to find a cure for schizophrenia. However, in reality,
the project conducted illegal human experimentation to determine whether drugs
and psychological techniques could be used for the purposes.

Speaker 3 (01:30:42):
Of mind control.

Speaker 5 (01:30:43):
Officially, neither the United States nor Canada has admitted to
being responsible for the experiments. Wow Wow survivors have attempted
to receive compensation with some success.

Speaker 4 (01:30:55):
Wait, so they won't admit that they did it.

Speaker 3 (01:30:58):
Well, there are instances such as with the Church.

Speaker 5 (01:31:04):
Committee and I thank seventy five where this congressman from
Idaho brought all of this stuff MK Ultra Project Mockingbird,
among other things into the spotlight and they were said
to have ended all of it after that. But other
than that, I mean, the things that they were willing

(01:31:25):
to admit to were very minimal. And what they did
admit to they said, it's long stopped and.

Speaker 3 (01:31:32):
We're not doing any of that anymore. Oh Fox, So yeah,
I mean, oh yeah. As far as accountability goes, I
can't tell.

Speaker 4 (01:31:39):
You accountability zero.

Speaker 5 (01:31:41):
I can't tell you the political process history.

Speaker 4 (01:31:45):
That's how it's like. They're survivors who can say, yeah,
they did this stuff to me, and they're like, no,
we didn't.

Speaker 5 (01:31:54):
So some background on this. The United States became interested
in mind control in the fifties after the war. It
was believed that North Korea, China, and the Soviet Union
had employed mind control techniques during the conflict, particularly on
American prisoners of war. Nazi Germany, and Imperial Japan also
conducted unethical human experimentation during the Second World War, some

(01:32:17):
of which are believed to involve the use of drugs
for a mind control purposes. As a result, the US
felt it was behind in this respect. And this is
what you see with everything, whether it's the arms race,
who can build a nuke first, whether it's who can
get to the moon first, or oh my god, they're doing.

Speaker 3 (01:32:38):
Fucking mind control experiments in China, Russia and North Korea.
So now we got to do it. And that is.

Speaker 5 (01:32:46):
Always what we are led to believe is the premise
of it. But when you get as deep as some
people have, one might start to think that these fucking
countries are working together as per trade.

Speaker 3 (01:33:00):
In George Orwell's nineteen eighty.

Speaker 5 (01:33:02):
Four, we staged these wars sacrifice, you know, hundreds of thousands,
millions of people in the process, while we get enriched
building weapons, building fucking mind control techniques, faking space races
to build more weapons and whatever it is. But that

(01:33:25):
is what m k LTRA always when you read into it,
that's always the reason why they were doing it, and
we had to catch up and pass them. So to
get into doctor Cameron, if you didn't have anything to say,
go ahead, So Cameron. In nineteen forty three, he was
already a well known psychiatrist. He was invited to lead
the new Allen Memorial Institute by famed Canadian neurologist. While

(01:33:49):
they're at Penfield, doctor Donald youw and Cameron, we're just
gonna call him Ewan I don't want to say his
full name every fucking time, would become the hospital's first director.
Cameron would also become the first chairman of McGill University's
psychiatry department. Well respected in his field, all right, Cameron

(01:34:11):
was Cameron. I don't we don't really need to get
into him. But this is just laying a foundation to
this next article I want to read, which is an
account that I think is going to be more in
depth than anything the Candian Encyclopedia could offer us. So
this is from a book and this is the afterword.

(01:34:36):
But I just found this when I was coming through
some files.

Speaker 3 (01:34:41):
I've got the documents.

Speaker 5 (01:34:45):
This is written by a Professor David Harper of University
of East London and in the show notes, maybe Julia
will tell you what book this came from.

Speaker 3 (01:34:57):
I don't want to go back because I had the
like pdf.

Speaker 5 (01:34:59):
This the experiments at the heart of page Cooper's story
sounds as if they are straight out of a dystopian
conspiracy thriller. But they really happened already. I like the
direction of this article.

Speaker 3 (01:35:11):
Munch me too.

Speaker 5 (01:35:13):
They were conducted in the nineteen fifties and early nineteen
sixty sixties by doctor Ewan Cameron, and they even fucking
shortened his name for us. A British born psychiatrist and
director of the Allen Memorial Institute in Montreal, Cameron sought
to develop what he saw as a revolutionary new psychiatric treatment,
but his experiments were secretly funded by the CIA as

(01:35:35):
part of what historian Alfred McCoy refers to as a
veritable Manhattan Project of the mind. Funny we just mentioned
that Cameron gave his procedures pseudoscientific names like depatterning and
psychic driving.

Speaker 3 (01:35:53):
You will both be I mean both of us.

Speaker 5 (01:35:56):
And our listeners will be familiar with at least the
latter deep.

Speaker 4 (01:36:00):
Patterning, WEP with psychic driving.

Speaker 3 (01:36:03):
He's the one who for the CIA was I mean, We're.

Speaker 5 (01:36:06):
Gonna watch a video after I read this article of
a guy it's more sad than anything that was shown
in the the UH Houston, Texas Kidnapping scheme documentary. It's
we're gonna show a few clips from it, but anyway, Yeah,
Cameron gave his procedures to He varied them over time

(01:36:26):
and from patient to patient, but they typically involved the
mix of the following number one drug induced coma. Each
experimental treatment for Cameron's patients, two thirds of who were women,
which we did say earlier, two thirds, that's a big
fucking number, would usually begin and conclude with quote sleep
therapy end quote, i e. A coma induced by administering

(01:36:49):
barbiturates number two deep patterning. During the drug induced sleep,
patients would be woken up for feeding the toilet and
to be given regular electroc which would start after about
three days of sleep. The combined sleep electric shock quote
treatment in quote lasted between fifteen to thirty days, sometimes
up to sixty five days. So that patients did not

(01:37:12):
harm themselves as a result of the epileptic seizures caused
by the electroshock, they were immobilized with muscle relaxant drugs
like carreer. In the standard electroshock therapy of the times,
doctors would give patients a single dose of one hundred
and ten volts, lasting a fraction of a second every
one or two days. However, by contrast, according to John Marx,

(01:37:34):
quote Cameron used to form twenty to forty times more intense,
two or three times daily with the power turned up
to one hundred and fifty volts into quote. So he
up to forty and did it longer. Cameron's aim, as
stated in his journal article and Comprehensive Psychiatry in nineteen
sixty two, was to cause disorientation and confusion via quote

(01:37:59):
massive end quote and quote pervasive end quote, memory disturbance.
After this, According to his article, a patient might be
quote unable to walk without support to feed himself, and
he may show double incontinence in quote he shitt himself
double time. WHOA number three psychic driving patients were next

(01:38:21):
subjected to negative taped messages e g. Mother hates me.
The aim was to quote get rid of unwanted behavior
in quote, and then this would be followed by positive
messages quote to condition in desired personality traits end quote.
The messages taken from recordings of Cameron's interview with patients.

Speaker 3 (01:38:40):
Were played repetitively on a tape loop system via loud
speakers or a football helmet contraption for sixteen hours a
day for several weeks.

Speaker 5 (01:38:50):
And we're going to show a clip of a very
unfortunate example of this. Cameron sought to intensify the effect
by placing his patients in a sensory depor vision quote
box end quote. We're talking Joe Rogan and stranger things
in the stables of the hospital and giving them cocktails
of drugs which would immobilize them but keep them awake

(01:39:11):
whilst they experienced hallucinations induced by psychedelic drugs val or
lick cow something like that. Described her experience as quote
terrifying end quote. She received LSD one to four times
a week, goddamn together with either a stimulant or this
is like manson shit with either a stimulant or depressant,

(01:39:33):
and then was left on her own to listen to
tape playing excerpts for last session of her last session
with Cameron. This is carrying insanity, everybody not inducing it.
Jesus Christ, someone needs some help.

Speaker 4 (01:39:49):
And this I'm flabbergett. I'm speechless.

Speaker 5 (01:39:53):
Oh, as far as mk Ulter goes, this is like
one of several fucking ways they were doing this weird.
He makes all the shit that we're led to believe
was the worst thing that ever happened in Nazi Germany
makes it. I mean, then it was a spillover effect
because a lot of these fuckers that came over via
via paper clip were the ones doing this stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:40:16):
Starting to wonder if they didn't do this to you know,
Q four what.

Speaker 5 (01:40:21):
That quation when you told me the story of that guy,
It just reminded me of like if I don't know
name your favorite filmmaker made stranger things and you would
have that guy like.

Speaker 3 (01:40:37):
It's just a crazy story.

Speaker 5 (01:40:39):
They drove him to non anyway, Yeah, I agree. Oh
they're giving patients names here too. Anyway, val or lecow.

Speaker 13 (01:40:52):
She was.

Speaker 5 (01:40:53):
Yes, she was given LSD and stimulants and then made
to listen to her last tape sessions. In the case
of a patient named Mary, Cameron kept her in his
sensory deprivation box for thirty five days. I mean, this
is what they do to punish people in prison, is
solitary confinement. Let alone sensory.

Speaker 4 (01:41:11):
Her in a sensory deprivation box for thirty five days.
Let's saying here gave her repeated electro shocks and drug Sorry,
go ahead.

Speaker 5 (01:41:23):
If you want to turn No, I'm just the torture
thirty five days comma gave her repeated electro shocks whilst
she was in drug induced comma, after which she endured
one hundred and one days of quote psychic driving in
quote at the end of her quote treatment end quote.
According to Cameron, quote, no favorable results were obtained in.

Speaker 4 (01:41:42):
Quote oh weird, my God, a.

Speaker 5 (01:41:45):
Result that comes as little surprise with the link with
the CIA emerged only after years of dogged investigation. In
nineteen seventy four of The New York Times published an
article by Seymour Hirsh about unconstitutional CIA activities, based in
part on an internal report. Yeah, this is what I
was talking about earlier. The CIA called the family Jewels.

(01:42:07):
That was the Church Committee. Hersh's article sparked investigations by
President Ford's Rockefeller Commission. Ah, they're back in the US
Senate's Church Committee. It was revealed that the CIA had
used LSD on the unsuspected members of the public in
the US, and then nineteen fifty three, Frank Wolson, a
US Army biological warfare specialist had fallen to his death

(01:42:28):
from the tenth floor went to see.

Speaker 3 (01:42:29):
What I'm telling I knew he was not running this shit.
He was an innocent contractor.

Speaker 4 (01:42:34):
Well he got fucked, is what he got. But he what.

Speaker 3 (01:42:40):
To get.

Speaker 5 (01:42:41):
Well, yeah, we could get into Frank Olson. Julie and
I have both gone into him on other episodes about
how he got dosed at this like outing in the
woods and then he started fucking freaking out about what
he was a part of, and he was wanting to
talk and then they threw him from it. I know
a lot of people think that he was on acid

(01:43:01):
and he jumped to his death, but those are just
regards that think that closed window. Only the truest of
you will get that reference, all right. Frank Wilson had
fallen to his death from a tenth floor window, silled
after days after being given LSD without his knowledge or permission. However,

(01:43:21):
the investigations were hampered by the fact that CIA director
Richard Holmes had ordered all records be destroyed by seventy three,
but in seventy seven, sixteen thousand pages of documents relating
to the CIA's financial history were found following a foyer
by John Marx, a former State Department employee turned art
turned author. Marx and his research team managed to identify

(01:43:45):
and interview some of those involved in In nineteen seventy nine,
he published that such for the Mancherian Candidate, the CIA
and Mind Control. This revealed that Cameron had begun to
receive money for his research from the CIA in nineteen
fifty seven. And then it's funny too, because in nineteen
fifty eight what's his name.

Speaker 3 (01:44:03):
Moved into the other place. This is all that going on. Oh,
at the same time, this is like a movie.

Speaker 5 (01:44:08):
You could just do a movie like from fifty five
to the early sixties.

Speaker 3 (01:44:11):
And anyway, okay.

Speaker 5 (01:44:15):
Cameron had begun to receive money for his research from
the CIA in fifty seven via front organization called the
the Society for the Investigation of Human Ecology Good name.
Mark showed that Cameron's research was Subproject sixty eight of
an extensive CIA. So you guys even wonder they kind
of in the other article glossed over that it's rumored,

(01:44:38):
And now we have documents proving that this guy was
directly funded as a Subproject sixty eight them an extensive
CIA funded program of research into brainwashing and quote mind
control in quote run by doctor Sidney Gottlieb. That's the
head daddy of fucking mk LT poisoner in chief, a
chemist who was the head of the CIA's Technical Service

(01:44:59):
Division TA. The overall research program involved many leading psychologists, psychiatrists,
and social scientists, some who were aware of the CIA's
role and some who were not. It was called k
MK meant it was a TSD project. And also that's
a German thing, the MK part. They left that out,
and Ultra was a code name. According to Marx, CIA

(01:45:22):
officials would travel periodically to observe Cameron's work, something Page
Cooper alludes to in her.

Speaker 3 (01:45:28):
Story Big Circle, of course.

Speaker 5 (01:45:33):
So we're gonna watch clips from this what they're talking
about after I get done read in the article from this.
Nineteen eighty the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation the CBC fifth the
State program broadcasting investigation Cameron's experiments, including interviews with several
of Cameron's former patients. In the subsequent decade, three books

(01:45:56):
on the studies were published, including Ann Collins in the
sleep Room and We're going to watch a video about
the sleep Room, based on interviews with former patients In
nineteen eighty eight, the CIA finally agreed to an out
of court settlement with nine nine of Cameron's former patients,
and there were hundreds, including Mary Morrow, who inspired the

(01:46:18):
character of Joy's stepmother de Rota in Page Cooper's story.
I'm sorry that there's no context for who Page Cooper is,
but she's somebody who they were talking to before they
wrote this book.

Speaker 3 (01:46:29):
But anyway, it led them to dig into this more.

Speaker 5 (01:46:32):
Morrow, a doctor, had approached Cameron for a fellowship in psychiatry,
but he decided to admit her as a patient, claiming
she appeared quote nervous end quote she underwent Cameron's quote
deep patterning end quote regime of electro shock and barbituates
for eleven days. In nineteen ninety two, the Canadian government
agreed to pay compensation to seventy seven former patients on

(01:46:57):
condition that they agreed not to sue the government or
the hospital, but hundreds of other former patients were left
without shit. They said, compensation, but it's shit. The story
of Cameron's experiments is a long and complicated one, but
he should not be regarded as a rogue. As a
rogue Maverick during his time as director of the Allen

(01:47:20):
Memorial Institute. He was president in turn of the American
Psychiatric Association, the Canadian Psychiatric Association, and the World Psychiatric
Psychiatric Association, the World and American and Canadian. In the
nineteen fifties, the numbers of people in psychiatric hospitals were

(01:47:41):
at their peak and provided a captive population on which
overly optimistic psychiatrists could try out experimental methods with few safeguards.
These were the days, for example, when lobotomies were routinely practiced.
As we've covered, poorly designed studies such as Camemans were
published openly in mainstream psychiatric journals all the fucking time.

(01:48:05):
In nineteen fifty five, Canadads Weekend magazine even included an
article on Cameron's work entitled quote Canadian psychiatrist developed beneficial
brainwashing clever beneficial brainwashing. I think we're going to watch
a clip that calls that a rather blatant oxymoron. Patients
and families deferred to the authority of psychiatrists. I thought

(01:48:28):
he was God, val Or Lecou said of Cameron, we
talked about her earlier. I think she was the one
that was like in a fucking tank for thirty five
days or whatever, and the CIA's research program began in
the midst of paranoia and suspicion about quote communist brainwashing
in quote following show trials in Moscow and Eastern Europe

(01:48:48):
and the coerced quote confessions end quote of captured US
servicemen in Korea in the early fifties. But this initially
defensive purpose was transformed and the program's results into manuals
the CIA used themselves and in the training of interrogators
in countries allied with the US or and the Cold War.
An important lesson is that such paranoia, combined with secrecy

(01:49:13):
and a lack of oversight and accountability, can eat it
only lead to abuses, something also seeing in the UK's
use of interrogation techniques in Kenya's in the fifties and
Northern Ireland in the seventies. Following the attacks in New
York on eleven September two thousand and one, the Bush
administration embraced quote enhanced interrogation in quotes methods like waterboarding

(01:49:38):
water boarding, abandoning well established legal norms. Once again, some
psychologists proved willing to help design psychological interrogation techniques we
forgot the lessons of history then, and unless we keep
retelling the stories of the past, it is likely we
will forget them again in the future, and goddamn it,

(01:49:59):
we have. I would say that guy Ewan, Yeah, he's
a rogue maverick.

Speaker 3 (01:50:08):
No fucking I mean, I would call him a rogue maverick.
It doesn't mean he was good.

Speaker 5 (01:50:13):
He had he had some key backing, of course, as
they always do. I would say him and doctor Sidney
Cohen are two people that you would want to look
into when you want to see Gottlieb is the head
of him.

Speaker 4 (01:50:29):
K Ultra Fuck that guy.

Speaker 5 (01:50:30):
It was like fucking Operation Artichoke or some ship first,
and then.

Speaker 4 (01:50:36):
That's what Frank Olsen was involved with.

Speaker 5 (01:50:38):
Yeah, Frank Olsen was this guy contracting them. He was
a fucking government scientist and he got entangled in this
and took the dive. But yeah, anyway, I would say
Sidney Cohen looking to him, he's the guy who gave LSD.

Speaker 3 (01:50:51):
If you listen to a COULD series, he gave LSD
to What the fuck was the guy's name? Who did Sinnanan?

Speaker 4 (01:50:58):
Chuck?

Speaker 10 (01:50:59):
Chuck?

Speaker 3 (01:51:00):
Didrich? Yes, Didric and many others. I think he gave
it to.

Speaker 5 (01:51:07):
Carry Grant other notable people probably intermingled with the rat
Pack and the Laurel Canyon fucks.

Speaker 4 (01:51:14):
Say, you have pointed out to me that I have
remembered wrong some stuff about Frank Olsen in past episodes.

Speaker 3 (01:51:23):
Are we gonna rehash this year?

Speaker 4 (01:51:25):
No, I'm not rehashed and shit, I'm just saying I
go off my memory and sometimes I get like dates
and certain thing.

Speaker 5 (01:51:32):
Yeah, you focused on the Frank Olsen story after reading
that book by what's his name, the Richeald Belzer.

Speaker 3 (01:51:40):
The stand up comedian.

Speaker 4 (01:51:41):
Yeah, Robert Belzer.

Speaker 3 (01:51:43):
I think it's Richard Richard Belzer.

Speaker 5 (01:51:45):
But yeah, Frank Olsen was not in charge of him Kilter,
but he was one of the first casualty fuck ups internally.
I mean, these fuckers were dosing each other at parties,
they were doing. Operation Climax is probably one a lot
of people have looked into, if not look into, that
they were getting hookers to bring John's back to places
with two way mirrors. However, this is not an MK

(01:52:07):
ultracentric episode, but it's worth looking into. But the spillover
into the asylums and the experiments that went on there,
So we did get a good taste of that. But
I do want to show some clips from a documentary
that is seeming to be covering a movie that they're
making about these events, but they actually like interlace real

(01:52:31):
documentary footage. So I clipped some stuff where it just
shows the real shit. And did you have anything you
wanted to say?

Speaker 4 (01:52:40):
No, I'm curious to see what these clips are.

Speaker 3 (01:52:43):
Oh, it looks like it's just one big long one.

Speaker 5 (01:52:45):
It's about six minutes, So pause for a pee break
and get your little ones out of the room, you crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:52:52):
Fox if you've got them in there. Anyway, it's a
cosmic peach. I hope not.

Speaker 4 (01:52:57):
Some people is down with the peach in front of
their kids.

Speaker 5 (01:53:01):
I am, but this instance, keep the little ones away.
So this is going to be going into doctor Ewan Cameron,
who we've been talking about, speaking and then some tragic stories.
We've got about a six minute clip, and then we'll
give our closing arguments and maybe lick our middle fingers

(01:53:22):
and tease for next week or week or whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:53:25):
It's going to fucking be I don't.

Speaker 9 (01:53:27):
Know, to the point where he is destroying the minds
of hundreds of people.

Speaker 1 (01:53:32):
These are the days and hours.

Speaker 9 (01:53:34):
Of the occasion.

Speaker 8 (01:53:35):
Inspired by the exuberant post war optimism in technology, Cameron
thought he'd achieved a major scientific breakthrough how to repair
a damaged human mind. The media rejoiced, even coined a
phrase which would become a tragically silly oxymoron, beneficial brainwashing.

(01:53:56):
Linda McDonald was a young mother with five children the
age of five when she started feeling low. Her family
doctor knew just the man to make her better.

Speaker 24 (01:54:06):
I was tired, I was depressed. My back was hurting,
and so he said to the children's father, why don't
you go to Montreal and visit this doctor Ewan Camera,
this famous man who has all of these accolades, and
have an assessment.

Speaker 7 (01:54:25):
So we went.

Speaker 24 (01:54:27):
My medical file even says that I took my guitar.

Speaker 17 (01:54:31):
With me.

Speaker 24 (01:54:33):
And that was the end of my life. Within three weeks,
doctor Cameron decided to call me in acute schizophrenic and
ship me up to the sleep room.

Speaker 25 (01:54:44):
How long did they put you to sleep?

Speaker 6 (01:54:47):
For?

Speaker 24 (01:54:48):
I was in a coma for eighty six days, eighty
sixties unbroken sleep, total comatose state.

Speaker 8 (01:54:58):
The theory was simple, her a disturbed mind and start
all over again. One of doctor Cameron's colleagues at the
time was doctor Peter Roper.

Speaker 15 (01:55:07):
The aim, I think really was to wipe out the
patents of thought and behavior which were detrimental to the
patient which was sick, and replaced them with healthy patents
of thought and behavior. I think this may have been
stimulated by the effects of the American prisoners of war

(01:55:32):
and career, how they seemed to have been brainwashed.

Speaker 8 (01:55:37):
The movie called The Sleep Room dramatizes one technique for brainwashing,
extreme sessions of electroshock therapy massive jolts of electricity, three
or four times a day for weeks. According to her
hospital records, Linda MacDonald had one hundred of these treatments.

(01:55:58):
She entered hospital for treatment of what we can now
guess was postpartum depression. Her records show the results of
shock and radical drug therapy. May fifteenth shows some confusion.
June third knows her name, but that's about all. June
eleventh doesn't know her name.

Speaker 24 (01:56:16):
I had to be toilet trained. I was a vegetable.
I had no identity, I had no memory. I'd never
existed in the world before, like a baby, Just like
a baby that has to be toilet trained.

Speaker 8 (01:56:30):
She eventually went home, her depression gone and her entire
previous life gone with it.

Speaker 24 (01:56:36):
This is one of the twins.

Speaker 26 (01:56:39):
It was in sixty two before I went to the
alum and this is the same one.

Speaker 3 (01:56:43):
I think.

Speaker 26 (01:56:44):
I just look at the pictures and I know who
that is, who they are, but I don't remember them
as my children at all. I mean, I know that
they came from my body, but there's no so that's
all I don't know. And that's because I was told that,

(01:57:05):
so these are my children.

Speaker 8 (01:57:10):
Robert Logi was little more than a child himself when
he was referred to doctor Cameron. He was eighteen. He
had a sore leg. His doctor thought it was all
in his head and sent him to the Allen. Like
Lynda McDonald, he went through a nightmare of shock therapy
and drugs including lsd.

Speaker 2 (01:57:28):
Well I was given els to you about every second
day and injected and sometimes it was mixed with sody
mamatal and other drugs.

Speaker 13 (01:57:39):
Idiot Park one on one tape two.

Speaker 8 (01:57:42):
Most of the drugs were experimental but seemed suitable for brainwashing,
or as Cameron preferred to call it, deep hatterning. Then
during the long sleep, the patient would be forced to
listen to subliminal messages that were supposed to print new,
sometimes bizarre thoughts on his blank mind.

Speaker 2 (01:58:01):
I was aware of the speaker under my pillow. I
was aware of the words, which where you killed your mother,
you kill your mother? Yeah, who was alive? And well,
who was alive? Amount and.

Speaker 8 (01:58:17):
Over and over again.

Speaker 2 (01:58:18):
This voice is well, like I say, it takes about
two seconds to say that message. And this was going
on for twenty three days. And when I went home
after being there, and when I went home, my mother
was there and why was she there? And didn't make
any sense?

Speaker 8 (01:58:39):
So what was going on here? Doctor Ewan Cameron was
at one point head of the World Psychiatric Association and
is still admired by some of his former colleagues. Doctor
Peter Roper, what is.

Speaker 25 (01:58:52):
The possibility that we had a good, well motivated man
whose ego and ambition took charge of his professionalism and
led him into some very direct places.

Speaker 15 (01:59:09):
Well, I would put that chances pretty slight. I think
it's more likely that if he'd been around to defend
himself when this story came out, we would have a
totally different picture of it.

Speaker 25 (01:59:26):
What would he say, put yourself in hissue. What would
he say.

Speaker 15 (01:59:30):
I think it'd say, Look, I treated these patients to
the best of my ability. I didn't get all of
them well, but most of them I got better than
they were.

Speaker 5 (01:59:46):
So once again, that's it. That's the fifth estate. And
I will give Julia the links for these all the
clips that we've showed, and she'll put them in the
show notes for you. I'd recommend watching all of it,
but as you can see, zero accountability from a close
colleague still alive, wearing a lap coat.

Speaker 3 (02:00:05):
In the interview.

Speaker 5 (02:00:05):
I don't know if they're trying to imply he's still practicing.
I fucking hope not. But uh yeah, some of it
was a success, like, for example, that first woman who
went home not depressed, but you know what, she had.

Speaker 3 (02:00:20):
No memory of any of her life. It's like that
movie The Long Kiss Good Night with Geena Davis and
Samuel L. Jackson.

Speaker 5 (02:00:28):
But anyway, when you start thinking about MK ultra.

Speaker 3 (02:00:35):
Offshoots that still are not.

Speaker 5 (02:00:39):
You know, technically acknowledged, such as Monarch, and you look
at what they were doing to these people. This is
the nineteen fifties, and then you start to see oddities
with pop culture. The Laurel Canyon scene.

Speaker 3 (02:00:55):
Manchuran candidate type shit, and a lot of people were willing.

Speaker 5 (02:00:57):
To just wash this stuff out, throw the baby out
with the bathtub, as JJ would say, and just assume
that it's all an exaggeration. But they were putting an
infinite amount of resources into this stuff. We see the
aftermath of it today, and even though this is a

(02:01:19):
mental health slash insanity centric episode, you do have to
start wondering, like you're seeing the techniques developed. Yes, they
were using these people, these throwaways as guinea pigs, but
what did they do after this anyway?

Speaker 3 (02:01:36):
Closing arguments, of course not there's no way.

Speaker 5 (02:01:42):
It's spilled over into the entertainment industry, politics, every facet
of your life. They where you want to think this
stuff doesn't exist. But yeah, the mentally ill are a
large part of the research that led to this furthering

(02:02:04):
of this kind of shit.

Speaker 3 (02:02:07):
It's the psychic driving the deep patterning.

Speaker 5 (02:02:10):
These are fucking terms that are acknowledged in the mainstream
that this guy was developing in this place and he
never lived to see his day in court, and he's
got a colleague willing to defend him right now, Well,
I don't know what this was made, but it was
more recent, of course than that first documentary.

Speaker 4 (02:02:30):
They put that woman asleep for eighty six.

Speaker 5 (02:02:34):
Days, and then how about that poor kid in with
acid every other day. It almost seems like this was
kind of like.

Speaker 3 (02:02:46):
That thing going on in Houston.

Speaker 5 (02:02:48):
If you can get end up in this program from
having a sore leg, shit.

Speaker 4 (02:02:54):
Oh my god, Hey, my leg kind of hurts this
this is her venous ass.

Speaker 3 (02:03:00):
This is Canada.

Speaker 5 (02:03:01):
They will officially recommend suicide if you ask for a
fucking chairlift on your stairway. If you're a veteran, that's real.
Or you have an earache, you're a tarded guy with
an earache, the Canadian government will put you out of
your misery. So you think it's crazy here, it is.
We're living in crazy times. But a lot of this
stuff was going on north of the border. Hey, shout

(02:03:25):
out Davy Wavi, but we know you're not part of this.
Well fuck, I mean, there's a reason the CIA doesn't
recognize borders.

Speaker 4 (02:03:36):
Okay, but okay, but do you think the CIA is
just running this all of it psychiatry, these Laurel encampments, pharmaceuticals,
this is all like a big experiment.

Speaker 5 (02:03:53):
Yes, this is the legs of what is the top
of the table today, Like you can look back and
see this isn't a fucking conspiracy theory. These are fucking
legitimized accounts of what they were doing, what they were developing,
using the dregs of society as guinea pigs. It wasn't

(02:04:14):
just the mentally ill people labeled mentally ill. It was prisoners,
it was everybody. You go, you get a hooker in
the fucking late sixties and San Francisco, you could have
stumbled into fucking Operation Climax.

Speaker 4 (02:04:29):
Okay, but that woman had postpartum.

Speaker 3 (02:04:32):
She felt what did they say? She felt a little
low a moment with five children, felt a little low.
She felt low whatever that means. Whatever that means. I
have one kid and I feel loll sometimes. This bitch
has got five.

Speaker 5 (02:04:51):
They erased any memory of her lowliness, and she's no
longer depressed.

Speaker 3 (02:04:55):
I wonder, I just have.

Speaker 4 (02:04:56):
A feminine moment right now?

Speaker 3 (02:04:59):
Please need more of that?

Speaker 4 (02:05:02):
Doesn't it just speak to the incredible nature of God's
design of our bodies that you could go through something
like that and still manage to be okay, Like your
body tries to heal itself.

Speaker 3 (02:05:18):
Well, I would.

Speaker 4 (02:05:18):
Resume some type of normal life.

Speaker 5 (02:05:21):
I would argue that this woke territory that you're treading
lightly and trying to avoid exists because the foundation.

Speaker 3 (02:05:29):
Of it is absolutely true.

Speaker 5 (02:05:31):
I'm fucking woke to a degree when it comes to
you know, the what do.

Speaker 3 (02:05:36):
They call him?

Speaker 5 (02:05:37):
Marginalized women being one and this is fucking recent And
she fell into this lady that got her mind raised,
fell into that two thirds category, felt a little lull.
Let's erase your entire fucking life as.

Speaker 4 (02:05:56):
A result, men and women, Sure, the ability to recuperate
after something like that with your spiriting, Well.

Speaker 5 (02:06:03):
The old guy, eighteen year old, given acid every other day,
being psychically driven to believe that he killed his mother,
goes home, his mom's alive.

Speaker 3 (02:06:14):
What were they doing with him?

Speaker 5 (02:06:15):
Was he like a guy they never activated to pull off.

Speaker 3 (02:06:18):
Some kind of assassination?

Speaker 5 (02:06:20):
Because the I mean, the icing's on the cake already.
You know that hospital and they took this eighteen year
old kid in and they basically did what they did
to Ted Kaczynski at Harvard in this big timeframe we're
talking about here.

Speaker 4 (02:06:36):
But the ability to recuperate from that, it's amazing still
go on with your life.

Speaker 5 (02:06:42):
The human spirit is if nothing else resilient, there'd be
a lot of folks who would go through something similar
to what that man and woman in that clip went
through and they would not recover.

Speaker 4 (02:06:55):
Well, somebody that you and I have taught, and then
we'll do it like a closing statement. But somebody that
you and I both have talked about at nauseum is
Paul Banasi. How is he able to go like? He
has a family somewhere, he got married, he has kids.

(02:07:19):
How do you go high?

Speaker 5 (02:07:20):
If Paul Banasi is in fact not part of the syop,
and I do wonder about him, just because he is
so heavily entrenched in the John DeCamp Is it John?

Speaker 4 (02:07:34):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (02:07:34):
And my cousin Bill Colby.

Speaker 5 (02:07:38):
He is part of that narrative, and he's so sensationalized
that he just might be the West Memphis three of
the Franklin Scandal, the fucking red Herring.

Speaker 4 (02:07:47):
Let's just say for argument sake that he's.

Speaker 5 (02:07:50):
Not okay if he's real, and I'm willing to entertain
that for sure, because I'm not willing to he is
part of the Big three witnesses that is on document
that you could prove that's real. He's a real person now,
whether he was snagged into this sy up or not.
If he's a real person, I can't imagine the stuff

(02:08:11):
he's claimed, he's witnessed. He claims he's fractured into the
multitude of different people, and he's having a family somewhere.

Speaker 4 (02:08:18):
He's married, and he has kids, and he works the
jobs that's doing such.

Speaker 5 (02:08:23):
I mean, and not only was he fucking ritualistically abused
and passed around, he was part of the recruiting, picking
kids off the street, watching snuff films of people.

Speaker 4 (02:08:35):
He picked up street kid's in front of him.

Speaker 5 (02:08:39):
I mean, the fact that you could ever bounce back
from that is astounding to me and be a father.

Speaker 3 (02:08:45):
I mean, I run over a squirrel and I have
a bad day. Same, So fuck that. Sorry, Paul, that
really sucks.

Speaker 4 (02:08:52):
Let's just say all of that is real, the real shit,
and it might be. The resiliency of this spirit of
the human being is just remarkable to me sometimes that
you could go through a sleep room CIA experiment or
SRA or something like that and still somehow end up

(02:09:13):
being able to function.

Speaker 14 (02:09:14):
Later in life and raise kids and raise kids, not
pass your trauma in some fucking miraculous way, because we
all do.

Speaker 5 (02:09:22):
And if your trauma's deep, hopefully he's done the work.

Speaker 4 (02:09:27):
But think about his kids, right.

Speaker 3 (02:09:31):
I'm sure there is no model.

Speaker 4 (02:09:33):
In my opinion of pharmaceuticals or psychiatry that can heal
passed down trauma like that.

Speaker 3 (02:09:41):
Well, you know what you could do?

Speaker 5 (02:09:44):
You and Cameron is dead, of course, but I'm sure
he has proteges floating around out there. I wonder if
that alcoholic doctor that venerated his name, you could erase
Paulvanacci's memory.

Speaker 3 (02:09:55):
They proved you could do that.

Speaker 4 (02:09:56):
Passed down trauma in his kids, because you know that
the a thing.

Speaker 5 (02:10:01):
Yeah, And I'm not saying like heel that he shouldn't.
I not would never state that he shouldn't be allowed
to have kids. But we all do it. Anybody with
kids out there knows that you try your best not to.
It could be little things, it can be big things.

Speaker 4 (02:10:18):
Even if it's just spiritual what he's went through.

Speaker 5 (02:10:21):
Well, they talk about the epigenetics of trauma, study of
all that, and there's some interesting breadcrumbs to go off
and all that, and I believe it. I have shit
going on in my own family. That makes me think
there's generational fucking things that you can never escape.

Speaker 3 (02:10:38):
Like it's just a.

Speaker 4 (02:10:39):
Reality that Paulasi has your daddy right, Hopefully he's not
still fractured.

Speaker 5 (02:10:45):
Well, I'm like, what if one of his personalities is
that guy that fucking snagged Johnny Gosh off the street
or the guy that watched Hunter S.

Speaker 3 (02:10:53):
Thompson make snuff films.

Speaker 5 (02:10:55):
If that guy comes out during the diaper change or
bedtime story, those kids are fucking And that's why I was, Yeah,
I was like not trying to like make it not
serious when I said.

Speaker 3 (02:11:05):
Hopefully he's done the work, because you can't.

Speaker 5 (02:11:09):
I mean, you can escape it to a level neither
one of us knows the level of trauma compared to
that guy. No, and you've had a rough life. I've
had a semi cush life, and you know, nobody's gotten
out scott free.

Speaker 3 (02:11:25):
But fuck.

Speaker 4 (02:11:29):
The The problem to me is the work that's available
for him to do. I don't think works. I think
it's all part of this fucking broken psychiatry system that
keeps people on a treadmill. I mean, you'd have to
go to that guy in fucking Africa, the shaman guy,

(02:11:51):
and fucking do some serious spirit. I feel like you'd
have to heal your spirit before I don't know, before
you would think about wanting to have kids.

Speaker 3 (02:12:01):
Yeah, this is a heavy closing.

Speaker 4 (02:12:04):
What's this shit you got about Trump?

Speaker 3 (02:12:07):
All right?

Speaker 5 (02:12:07):
I forgot about this. I'm glad you reminded me so
to wrap this all up. And as Julia teased with
a question earlier, is where are we heading now? I
do want to give a caveat because you can always
spot opportunity to make Trump look bad. In my opinion,

(02:12:29):
the left and the liberal media always focus on the
stupid shit. They don't hardly ever show the stuff that
you actually should be afraid of because both sides are
doing it.

Speaker 3 (02:12:40):
But this.

Speaker 5 (02:12:43):
Clashing of mental illness and the homeless epidemic that not
only a few major cities are suffering from, like you
could say decades ago.

Speaker 3 (02:12:56):
It's everywhere now. We have it skirt into our neighborhood
on a regular occasion.

Speaker 4 (02:13:02):
I feel like our area is on the up fucking tick.
And just just.

Speaker 5 (02:13:07):
To give a little tease, I would say Julia is
wrong only because I've lived here in this house for
five years and she didn't see it three years ago.
When I couldn't walk to the downtown area without walking
through encampments.

Speaker 4 (02:13:21):
Guys, it's better than that.

Speaker 5 (02:13:23):
Well, what they did was and I don't know what
they did, but what on the outside looking in, what
they did was they got rid.

Speaker 3 (02:13:29):
Of all of it. I don't know how they did it.

Speaker 5 (02:13:31):
I know there was a big crackdown. So we're gonna
look at this on a national level. This is something
that I had seen in the headlines and I didn't
look into it more until Julia brought this topic to
me to do a series on because I remember hearing
that there was a big foot push in a bill
that Trump passed for normalizing mental institutions and the way

(02:13:54):
they were used previously in the stuff we've been covering
in this series so far. But I'll just close this
episode and then we can give our real closing arguments.
But this is it looks like it's PBS interviewing an
MS or a Washington Post journalist, which you know, we

(02:14:16):
all anybody paying attention to the political sphere knows PBS
Washington Post has kind of made a swing back to moderate.
But I do believe that they're covering something real here
and they're not like just going for the low hanging
fruit with Trump likely is often the case ninety nine
percent of the time, So keep that in mind.

Speaker 3 (02:14:36):
We are watching.

Speaker 5 (02:14:37):
An perspective from an angle against Trump anyway, But I
do believe and even in my own case, this is
a reason to be concerned. I do want to preface
this by saying this was January of twenty twenty five,
so this year, roughly what seven ish months ago.

Speaker 27 (02:14:58):
President Trump signed an executive or that makes it easier
for states to remove homeless encampments and force homeless people
into mental health or addiction treatment programs at least a
dayjour Dan explains.

Speaker 7 (02:15:10):
President Trump's order lays out his goal clearly.

Speaker 28 (02:15:13):
He wants to move more people who are homeless into
long term institutions and hospitals, including involuntarily. He also plans
a dramatic shift in federal funds away from programs that
place people into housing first and instead pushing for tougher
immediate requirements for treatment. Homeless rates have been steadily rising

(02:15:33):
since twenty seventeen. A federal count found that more than
seven hundred and seventy thousand people were living in shelters
or outside on a single night last year. For more
on this latest executive action and what it may mean,
I'm joined by David ob a national reporter focusing on
opioids and addictions for the Washington Post.

Speaker 7 (02:15:52):
There is a great deal in this order, David.

Speaker 28 (02:15:55):
First, does President Trump have the power to either encourage
or tell states that they need to put more people
in institutions, even involuntarily.

Speaker 13 (02:16:06):
Well, no, not not specifically. And that's one of the
interesting things about this order is that he's really they're
really trying to incentivize and push states into doing this. Remember,
states set the their particular laws, they set their criteria
for how they handle involuntary commitments. So really this is

(02:16:26):
a state issue. But the federal government certainly has a
lot of sway, and they can for example, in the
executive order, they talk about prioritizing grants for states that
are jurisdictions that comply with this order and crack down
on open air drug use and you know other other

(02:16:47):
things to combat quote unquote vagrancy on the streets. So
certainly there are sort of incentives they can do to
kind of push states to doing this, and certainly Trump
has a lot of has a lot of sway. Nearly
among red states. So if states feel like they're going
to benefit by implementing a more robust involuntary commitment program,

(02:17:08):
then you know.

Speaker 28 (02:17:09):
Then they just might What does President Trump say he
is trying to do here, and how does that mesh
with what we know about substance abuse and mental illness
in this population in particular.

Speaker 13 (02:17:20):
Well, I think Trump's message is something that does resonate
with a lot of people, particularly as we've seen in
cities where there are people camped out on sidewalks, where
there are people who are clearly grappling with mental illness
in a very visible public way. And so you know,
whether you're seeing it firsthand or you're watching it on TV,

(02:17:40):
certainly this is something that concerns people, right, but of
course in a very Trump way. It's also sort of
loaded with very fear inducing language. Right. It's you know, vagrancy,
it's people are you know, having violent confrontations on the street.
And when you talk to advocates for the homeless, advocates

(02:18:02):
for people with mental whoor dealing with mental illness, you know,
they they point out that most people that are dealing
with mental illness are not you know, getting arrested, They're
not you know, violently lashing out at people. But it's
when these things happen in a very high profile way,
like we've seen happen in New York City for example,
you know, they they you know, tend to grab a

(02:18:23):
lot of headlines. So these are real fears that that
that manifest themselves in our cities. But it kind of
gets you know, really amped up by some of the rhetoric.

Speaker 28 (02:18:33):
Where are the advocates on the tension here. Obviously there's
a public concern you talked about that, but what are
their concerns about this idea of stepped up involuntarily moving
people into hospitals.

Speaker 13 (02:18:45):
Well, I think the the overarching fears that we might
return to, you know, decades to policies at decades past
where people were unjustly uh and unfairly being held in
asylums for you know, months and years, against against their
will and not really getting the right kind of treatment
or maybe they weren't supposed to be there in the
first place. So that's sort of the overarching fear. But

(02:19:08):
I think I think the fact that you know, there's
there's a lot of public health dollars that are being
cut right now, and so some of that money, they say,
should be better spent on helping people in treatment and
not just locking them away, you know, sort of indefinitely.

Speaker 28 (02:19:27):
You know, I spoke to a man who's almost eighty
who's experiencing homeless is now, has for a long time.
He is one of those roughly one third in that
population who's also dealt with serious mental illness as we're
talking about, and he said he just does not think
there's room in the system, in the hospitals, in shelters
for these kinds of populations.

Speaker 7 (02:19:47):
What do we know about that?

Speaker 13 (02:19:49):
Right, Well, there is limited bedspace, and you know, you know,
in Florida, where I'm normally based, you see, you know,
there's been a lot of forensic hospitals that have closed
because there has been this push in recent decades to
get people out into the community and to get them
getting treatment out in the community and not in a
locked up facility. So there really is not a lot

(02:20:10):
of bedspace. And with budgets being strapped the way that
they are these days, particularly with cuts coming from DC,
you know, it's going to you know, states and community
is going to be hard pressed to really build those
facilities and be able to meet the needs of the
people that are looking to be that people want to
put away.

Speaker 28 (02:20:31):
David Avaya, thank you for your reporting on complex issues.

Speaker 7 (02:20:35):
We really appreciate talking with us today.

Speaker 13 (02:20:37):
Thank you.

Speaker 5 (02:20:42):
Well, I'll just say that that issue in itself is
a whole episode, and.

Speaker 3 (02:20:50):
There's some extreme views on it.

Speaker 5 (02:20:52):
I find myself in the large gray area on the
mental illness slash homelessness slash addiction thing that it's interesting
to me January would have been Trump just worn in,
so this was one of the first things he prioritized.

(02:21:13):
And I don't hear a lot of talk, but I
do hear some conspiratorial shit about truck drivers going to
these treatment centers and driving away with sealed meat containers.
Oh god, this is a ground zero. With Clyde Lewis
I listened to quite often, and he's had these truck

(02:21:33):
drivers calling in the last few months, probably since the
beginning of the year, where they're going to these addictions
slash mental health places and they have sealed containers and
it's labeled meat, and they drive them to ports and
they have to drop them off and drive away.

Speaker 3 (02:21:50):
If you want to get conspiratorial about what's going.

Speaker 4 (02:21:53):
On McDonald's, I don't even know we're eating homeless people.

Speaker 5 (02:21:57):
Well at least they're shipping it away, So don't eat
mc donald's overseas.

Speaker 4 (02:22:00):
Everybody, they're shipping it away.

Speaker 3 (02:22:06):
Yeah, that's my thoughts on the nuances of that.

Speaker 5 (02:22:08):
I mean, yeah, there's there's so much you could say
about it. But it does look like like this guy
wasn't plane. It's a slippery slope in ways back to.

Speaker 3 (02:22:18):
Medieval times is old. I just got the like a
motherfucker really still going on.

Speaker 4 (02:22:25):
Well, I'm somewhere in it, like I'm somewhere in the
middle between these no human being. It's just a trash
person that you can just throw away.

Speaker 5 (02:22:37):
Especially people that are in need of some kind of help.
Oftentimes they're not, but even the ones that are, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:22:44):
To me, it's like, I'm not, I'm not. I can't
get on board. We just like to throw a human
being away somewhere, even just because they're homeless.

Speaker 5 (02:22:53):
So what well, if you can can't, if you can
throw a human being away for any.

Speaker 3 (02:22:58):
Reason, then you can, and all sorts of reasons too.
And that's where we are.

Speaker 4 (02:23:02):
Like if you took somebody that had never like you
took somebody from like another fucking planet or something, and
you brought them to Earth and they were like, what
are these people that are like intense all over the place?
Those are the garbage people. Well, they're the fucking trash people.

Speaker 3 (02:23:21):
At least they're recycling.

Speaker 23 (02:23:23):
You know.

Speaker 4 (02:23:23):
What I'm saying is like, we don't take care of.

Speaker 5 (02:23:27):
Our yeah, And I think that's one of the overlying
points of this whole series. Really is this condition that
humanity finds itself in. And it's been an issue since
we went back in episode one of it for what
centuries like documented, but we can imagine that it's always

(02:23:50):
been here, and the way we've dealt with it has
gone into some dark fucking places, and we're still in
the middle of that.

Speaker 4 (02:23:58):
I feel unsafe and I get out at the gas
station at night and there's like a homeless dude with
one shoe on, just babbling away at himself. I don't
feel like I want to get out of the car.
I especially feel uncomfortable when they come up and ask
you for stuff. But the next time that happens to you,
you got to stop and think, if we had a
system that took care of people like this, there wouldn't

(02:24:23):
be homeless guys on meth with one shoe at the
gas station. You're begging you for me. We don't take
care of our omanies.

Speaker 5 (02:24:30):
Yeah, it's a whole spectrum. Like just a little anecdote.
I had stopped for I don't remember what.

Speaker 9 (02:24:40):
I think.

Speaker 5 (02:24:40):
I was getting a beer and some pouches, and this
guy's like, are you getting some food in there?

Speaker 3 (02:24:46):
Men?

Speaker 5 (02:24:47):
And he looked like he'd been hiking in the woods
and not showered in a while.

Speaker 3 (02:24:51):
He was totally coherent.

Speaker 5 (02:24:53):
He fucking told me, well, why don't you if you're
getting some food stuff, you could give me some money
and then you can use my food card. So the
guy was wanting to buy booze or something apparently. Yeah,
and you know that kind of shit. That's not a
homeless guy that's been only ill and there there's the
people that nine times out of ten don't even know

(02:25:14):
you're there and they don't interact with you. But I
guess the conversation we had this sparked your desire to
do this entire series. That guy is a fucking local
legend in Ashland, Oregon. I mean, he was a homeless
person who did interact with the community in big ways

(02:25:35):
throughout the years.

Speaker 3 (02:25:36):
And what do you do?

Speaker 4 (02:25:38):
He might have killed somebody.

Speaker 5 (02:25:40):
He might have killed somebody he tried to get He
was institutionalized to the point where he preferred to be
locked up, so they let him out one time, and
he went to the overpass and started throwing shit into
the freeway into traffic so he could go back to
jail and get three squares in a cot.

Speaker 4 (02:25:57):
But he might have misheddied some guys.

Speaker 3 (02:25:59):
Well that was Yeah.

Speaker 5 (02:26:00):
There was a local you know, I've not been living
here too long, a few couple of years maybe, And
a guy got his head damn near cut off on
this local bike path that runs through the entire series
of towns and cities here in southern Oregon. And some
people thought this homeless guy did it. It's never been solved.

(02:26:21):
But that's a whole other conversation.

Speaker 4 (02:26:23):
So that's where I'm at. It's like, are certain homeless
situations dangerous?

Speaker 3 (02:26:28):
First?

Speaker 4 (02:26:29):
Yes they are, and there are crazy.

Speaker 5 (02:26:33):
Is it the majority? It's dangerous some places? I think
so I don't.

Speaker 3 (02:26:40):
Feel relatively night on skid row. I'm not spending the
night two blocks that way.

Speaker 4 (02:26:48):
But you know what I'm saying, though, is like I
don't think these people should be thrown away.

Speaker 14 (02:26:53):
Yeah, and we have nothing for them.

Speaker 3 (02:26:56):
Not anything.

Speaker 5 (02:26:58):
Objectively beneficial. And you know, it's a common problem here.
Like I said, in this area, there was a sweep.
But we're in a city that's, you know, roughly thirty
miles from the California border and then you go forty
five minutes north of US and they're just letting these
fuckers take over the city parks. Families don't frequent the

(02:27:22):
parks at all anymore. You're if you're lucky enough to
find a swing set away from the encampments, it's probably
got fucking syringes that you might step on, Oh my god.
And the people are sick of it. And it's a
fairly conservative town. I'll say it's Grant's Pass, Oregon. And
every fucking morning, if I'm skimming through the radio and

(02:27:43):
talk radio, it's likely a topic that comes up and
there is no answer that a liberal state is offering.
And then the conservative states and people like Trump go
so far the other way. And yeah, there's not a
lot of fucking nuance when you look to the problem
solve that do have influence over society. So it's a
it's an issue that's not going away, and in our

(02:28:06):
society that seems to drive people close to insanity over
the edge. I would argue, with all the noise of
modern day society, we are breaking people left and right.

Speaker 4 (02:28:17):
And nobody can afford to live.

Speaker 5 (02:28:21):
Yeah, it's just a whole fucking cluster fuck conglamoration of
a whole lot of issues in Minilinness is right in
the middle of all.

Speaker 4 (02:28:28):
Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 3 (02:28:30):
But anyway, enjoy your evening everybody.

Speaker 4 (02:28:34):
I think, you know, it would be nice to see it,
you know, put just post in the comments section, like
what your thoughts on all this are. I mean, I
know Colby reads the comments all the time.

Speaker 5 (02:28:46):
Right If I go on Spotify and go to the thing,
if I'm re listening to anything you've posted else comments,
But I.

Speaker 3 (02:28:53):
Don't know, there's not a lot.

Speaker 5 (02:28:55):
Well I'm just saying that I could. I could check
there is wherever you listen. I don't know you could
comment on Spotify or Apple Podcasts or Patreon. Yeah, this
is an issue that has probably affected everybody. If not
familiar familially, whatever that word was supposed to be, it's
probably at least on the outskirts of your life. Whether

(02:29:17):
we're talking mental illness, homelessness, addiction, and the various mistreatments
of all of the above. I mean, yeah, sure, pharmaceuticals, pharmaceuticals,
But yeah, I.

Speaker 4 (02:29:30):
Think this is a killer episode. I had a lot
of fun putting my stuff together and watching that documentary
I sent you because I was like, what the fuck
is it?

Speaker 5 (02:29:41):
Yeah, And I mean, at the rate we're going, we
could probably do a ten part episode on this topic
and just dive into the weeds. But I think we're
bringing a lot of the like, you know, somewhat known stuff,
but looking a little deeper into it.

Speaker 3 (02:29:53):
Like even someone like me.

Speaker 5 (02:29:56):
Who has researched this for years, I've come across a
lot of new stuff to looking into it from this angle.
And like you, sharing that documentary, you know, that brought
a lot of stuff to light that I assumed wasn't
that prevalent in that time period in the nineteen nineties.

Speaker 4 (02:30:16):
Yeah, and I think we're gonna have even more fun
in the next episode.

Speaker 5 (02:30:21):
Well, this next episode will be the funnest one. Yeah,
even though it's going to be all about the same topic,
it's it's going to be you know, think of all
your favorite movies that are at least somewhat focused around
these issues we've been talking about, and I'm sure you
can think.

Speaker 4 (02:30:38):
Of plenty or shows or like whatever you know for movies.

Speaker 5 (02:30:42):
And you know, I also want to at some point,
and it'll probably be in next episode, talk about almost
the fetishization.

Speaker 3 (02:30:50):
Of mental illness that I see.

Speaker 5 (02:30:53):
Especially in younger women, and it's almost like part of
your he her, You're neurodivergent, You're on the spectrum. And
people definitely are quick these days because of the programming
coming from all angles to categorize themselves in these places.

(02:31:15):
Just self diagnose. And of course anxiety is common and
we all have it at times, and some of us
have it more than others, But just to label yourself
as neurodivergent somewhere on the spectrum, I'm asked for agree
on Tuesdays Thursdays, I'm a little you know, and it's

(02:31:35):
I'm not It's it's something you can make light of,
but it's all it's also a social contagion. So you know,
if we have time to dig in through all the
fun pop culture references of insanity, maybe we'll cover like
a little bit of like what we just see in
our day.

Speaker 3 (02:31:54):
To day lives.

Speaker 5 (02:31:55):
Yeah, and quote unquote normal people, normal people, which is.

Speaker 3 (02:32:00):
Your everyday people.

Speaker 5 (02:32:01):
Yeah, your cousins, your daughters, your sons, your uncles, your bosses.

Speaker 3 (02:32:07):
You can see it anywhere. Yeah. Yeah, people still wearing masks.

Speaker 4 (02:32:11):
Maybe I have a couple movies in a show that
I want to talk about. You got a couple movies
and stuff. And it's like you said, we'll kind of
dive all over the place. But I hope everyone out
there is enjoying this series so far. Leave comments, uh,
you know, share whatever. And with that being said, there

(02:32:33):
is one very important, vital piece of information I need
you to learn just as soon as humanly possible.

Speaker 1 (02:32:42):
Were nevertheless miscovings not with standing. Nevertheless, you need to

(02:33:04):
sign nevertheless. It's best if you cooperate, think of the
sake of your mind.

Speaker 22 (02:33:14):
Best to relax and focus on your breathing. You're gonna
feel a tiny sting when you wake up. The program
will initiate. You won't remember a thing.

Speaker 29 (02:33:31):
No sense fining, stop resisting such bad TiAl.

Speaker 22 (02:33:43):
Such promise, wee promise. I just stepped out the Wiams
except for walking getting.

Speaker 29 (02:33:53):
A lay of the land.

Speaker 22 (02:33:57):
Really no place to which I am long.

Speaker 29 (02:34:01):
I don't have much of a plan.

Speaker 16 (02:34:05):
I'm ready to go ignor.

Speaker 1 (02:34:08):
Of confusion, ready to taste.

Speaker 22 (02:34:11):
So called so blind, Perish the doubt.

Speaker 3 (02:34:16):
It's only a delusion.

Speaker 11 (02:34:18):
Look you, we've.

Speaker 9 (02:34:19):
Found you the time.

Speaker 22 (02:34:22):
No sense, fine.

Speaker 30 (02:34:26):
Staryss, such fine, such charm and priss, such proseno scar
scared

Speaker 13 (02:34:50):
Skin, skin,