August 3, 2025 • 30 mins
Organic traffic is down. Inbound leads are slowing. And leadership wants to know—where should the growth budget go now?
In this pivotal episode, we break down the true cost of showing up in AI-driven search—and what it takes to earn and sustain visibility in a world where nearly 60% of searches now end without a click. As AI Overviews on Google and direct-answer tools like ChatGPT and Perplexity reshape how users find information, traditional SEO tactics are failing—and fast.
We go deep into what businesses need to know to compete effectively:
- Why old SEO retainers are failing: From $1,500/month “check-the-box” plans to templated blog posts, we explain why legacy tactics don’t stand a chance against AI’s demand for authority, structure, and depth.
- The four pillars of modern AI SEO: You’ll hear how success today depends on high-quality, AI-optimized content, a technically excellent website, off-site authority signals through earned media, and continuous monitoring + iteration.
- What real investment looks like: From small businesses bootstrapping DIY content to enterprises spending $1M+ per year, we map out what a strategic AI SEO investment includes—and what different tiers of spending actually cover.
- The cost of delay: The most dangerous SEO mistake now isn’t overspending. It’s wasting time. We explain how early movers are locking in visibility that compounds over time, creating defensible advantages that become increasingly expensive to overcome.
You’ll also learn:
- The myth of being “#1 on ChatGPT”—and how to spot red-flag vendors peddling fantasy.
- What the virtuous cycle of AI visibility looks like—and how one early citation can drive trust, links, traffic, and more citations in perpetuity.
- Why modern SEO isn’t just a marketing tactic—it’s strategic infrastructure for growth, v
Get ready to skyrocket your SEO strategy! This episode of Cosmic Rankings is powered by Xponent21, your go-to partner for AI-driven SEO. Whether you're just starting or already navigating the search galaxy, Xponent21 has the tools to boost your content to the top—sometimes overnight. Ready to dominate AI-powered search? Visit Xponent21.com and let’s make your SEO shine across the universe!
Don't forget to subscribe where ever you get your podcasts!
This podcast is produced by Xponent21, a top U.S. AI SEO agency headquartered in Richmond, VA. We specialize in AI-driven SEO strategies that help businesses optimize their content to rank in ChatGPT, AI Overviews, and Perplexity. Want to stay ahead in the evolving search landscape? Check out our expert guide on how to optimize your content for AI search and partner with Xponent21 for digital marketing success.
Dive deeper into the world of AI SEO with this article on WillMelton.com, Shaping Reality: A Journey into Influencing Generative AI Outputs and AI Search Engine Results.
Want to learn now videos and podcasts are leveraged to elevate your brand in AI search results? Watch a replay of our webinar: Winning The Attention War: How to Use Strategic Video to Stand Out in the AI Era.
Get a jumpstart on your competition in the AI search visibility race: get a free, instant SEO report at Xponent21.com...
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So if you're leading a business today, maybe you felt
it right that subtle sense thatorganic traffic isn't quite
what it was.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Yeah, or the inbound leads feel a bit sluggish.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Exactly.
And then leadership comesknocking, asking OK, where
should this growth budgetactually go?
Because, let's face it, thesearch landscape, I mean the
whole economics of it, hasfundamentally changed.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You really have.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Which is why today we're doing a deep dive into AI
era, seo strategy and budget forsuccess.
We've pulled together a lot ofkey insights from our source
material to hopefully cutthrough some of the noise for
you.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yeah, our mission here is really to pull out those
crucial insights we want tolook at.
You know what you shouldactually expect now with AI
driven search, why a lot of theold methods just don't measure
up anymore, and, critically, howto budget strategically so you
actually succeed.
Okay, we've got some, I think,surprising facts and definitely
some actionable stuff thatshould give you a real shortcut
(00:56):
to getting up to speed.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
All right, let's dig in then.
What is this fundamental shift?
What's forcing everyone tocompletely rethink search
strategy right now?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Well, the big seismic event was really Google
launching its AI overviews.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
That changed the game .
Speaker 1 (01:09):
How so.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
We're now seeing stats like nearly 60% of
searches ending without a click.
People get the answer rightthere in the overview 60%.
Yeah, and on top of that you'vegot a growing number of users
just bypassing Google altogether, going straight to tools like
ChatGPP or Perplexity.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Okay, that is a massive shift.
So what's the core implicationfor businesses then?
If clicks are down butinformation is still being
delivered, the implication ishuge.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
It doesn't matter quite as much which tool someone
uses Google Perplexity,whatever.
The result is similar.
Only a tiny handful of reallytrusted sources actually get
cited in those AI summaries.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
And everyone else is just invisible.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Pretty much, yeah, invisible.
So for revenue teams thistotally reshapes expectations.
You should probably expectlower click-through rates from
your traditional organicrankings.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Right.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
But the flip side is if your content does get cited
by AI, that carries immensetrust.
We're seeing much higherconversion rates from that
traffic.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
OK, higher quality traffic potentially.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Definitely.
But and this is the catch theclimb to build that level of
authority, the kind needed forAI citations, it's significantly
steeper.
Now.
It's a whole new hurdle.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
That steeper climb makes me immediately think about
, you know, all those quick fixSEO promises you see advertised
everywhere.
Are those basically just deadin the water?
Now?
Why do the old tactics, thebargain basement, seo packages,
fall so short in this newreality?
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Well, fundamentally, it's because they cut corners,
and AI, well, it's not veryforgiving of shortcuts.
How do they cut corners?
Low budget providers.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
It's not very forgiving of shortcuts.
How do they cut?
Speaker 2 (02:45):
corners, low budget providers.
They scale by, skipping reallycritical steps.
They automate things thathonestly need careful, expert
human judgment.
There's a great quote from anindustry vet Cheap SEO services
aren't good and good SEOservices aren't cheap.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
You get what you pay for.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
You really really do, Especially now.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
And often that translates to like minimal
content, minimal links.
Right Given that AI seems towant deep, trustworthy
information, why is that such akiller now?
Speaker 2 (03:11):
It's a huge problem, because effective SEO today I
mean really effective demandshigh quality, genuinely resource
intensive content and strongbacklinks.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
So like proper research expert input.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Exactly A single well-researched article that
could easily cost hundreds,maybe even thousands, to produce
properly.
Cheap plans just can't affordthat volume of original expert
content or the effort needed toget reputable links.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
So what do they do instead?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
They often fall back on, you know, low-quality, thin
content, sometimes evenplagiarized stuff.
Ai systems are specificallydesigned to ignore or even
penalize that.
Without robust original contentand real link building, your
height just won't build theauthority AI results rely on.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
And what about the strategy itself?
Those cheap packages often seemvery one size fits all.
Does that kind of genericapproach work with AI?
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Not really no Bargain .
Seo often uses the exact sametemplate for every single client
.
Doesn't matter the industry,the audience.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Split and play.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Right and that scalable approach.
It just leads to mediocreresults because it completely
lacks the customization and thestrategic depth that you need to
stand out as an authority in anAI driven market.
It just doesn't cut it.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Okay, here's where I think it gets really interesting
and maybe a bit alarming thosewild promises, what's the
biggest red flag listenersshould watch out for?
I keep hearing things likewe'll get you listed first in
chat GPT.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Right, okay, that is flat out false.
Yeah, period.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Just not possible.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
It's pure snake oil.
There's no concept of beingindexed or ranking hashtag one
in chat, gpt or similar AI tools.
They don't work like that.
They don't have a traditionalindex or a ranking algorithm.
You can game.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
So how do they generate answers?
Speaker 2 (04:54):
AI assistants pull answers together based on their
massive training data andsometimes real-time web sources,
but there's no public rankingto manipulate, so any vendor
guaranteeing you placement likethat they're selling a fantasy.
So the only way is the onlypath to potentially showing up
in AI answers is to consistentlybe a high quality, genuinely
(05:14):
authoritative source across thewhole web.
That's a very different andmuch harder thing than just
ranking hashtag one for akeyword.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
And talking about pitfalls.
This really highlights the costof just doing nothing or doing
the wrong thing.
What's the hidden cost ofsticking with a low cost,
underperforming SEO strategy?
Speaker 2 (05:34):
I think the biggest hidden cost is wasted time.
That's huge.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Right.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
SEO has always been a long game.
We know that, but now speed isabsolutely paramount.
If you spend six months, 12months on some cheap approach
that just doesn't deliver, yourcompetitors the ones who are
investing correctly will haveraced ahead.
There's another good quote youcan always replace your SEO
provider, but you can never getback wasted time In this
environment.
That kind of delay.
(05:58):
You can never get back wastedtime In this environment.
That kind of delay it's deadly.
It lets your rivals build theirauthority, fortify their lead
in those AI results.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
They become the default answer.
So, knowing those risks ofinaction, why is acting now,
like right now, so critical?
What's the urgency?
Speaker 2 (06:12):
The urgency comes from the fact that we're still,
relatively speaking, in theearly innings of this AI-centric
search world.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Still early.
Days.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Yeah, I think so, and that means there's still a huge
white space opportunity forforward-thinking brands.
If you move decisively now, youcan potentially leapfrog
competitors who are maybe stillhesitating or sticking to old
methods.
It's an investment in lockingdown future visibility.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
And you mentioned this advantage it compounds over
time.
It's not just a one down futurevisibility.
And you mentioned thisadvantage it compounds over time
.
It's not just a one-off boost.
Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
There's a powerful virtuous cycle at play.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
How does that?
Speaker 2 (06:46):
work.
Okay.
So let's say Google's SGE orChatGPT quotes one of your pages
.
That early citation.
It tends to lead to more clicksfrom interested users, Right.
More clicks then drive strongersignals back to Google and
other platforms.
Things like more traffic,longer time on site, maybe
people linking to you.
Naturally, All that boosts youroverall domain authority.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
OK, so you look more credible.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Exactly and stronger signals then make future
citations more likely, becausethe AI models start to see your
site as one they already trust.
They favor reliability.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
So it snowballs.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
It really does.
This virtuous cycle creates ahighly defensible lead.
It widens the gap that yourrivals have to try and close
later.
As one expert, will Melton, putit early citations drive
backlinks, brand trust andfurther AI visibility it all
feeds itself.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
So what's the flip side, what's the real strategic
cost of waiting, of not gettinginto that cycle early?
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Well, that visibility gap.
It just widens week by week,month by month.
Your competitors who areshowing up in AI answers.
They're actively training boththe algorithms and the users to
see them as the defaultauthority.
Oh yeah, Trying to dislodgethose incumbents later it
becomes incredibly expensive,maybe even impossible in some
niches.
And beyond that, there's themassive opportunity cost.
(08:01):
Every quarter you spend justtesting the waters or delaying,
that's another quarter wherehigh intent traffic goes
straight to someone else's salesfunnel, not yours.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
So for the executives listening, thinking about
strategy and budget, the cleartakeaway seems to be speed and
commitment are absolutelycritical on this new
battleground 100%.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
A decisive, properly funded, AI-focused SEO program
launched today can potentiallylock in top-of-funnel visibility
for years.
Half measures delaying actionyou risk being permanently stuck
in second place in what'srapidly becoming a
winner-takes-most kind ofenvironment.
Right, it truly is, as oursources put it, the battleground
(08:41):
where visibility is eitherearned or erased.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Okay, so let's shift to the positive, then.
Enough about the pitfalls.
What does it actually take towin, to achieve that top
visibility in AI search?
It sounds like it's not abouttricks.
It's about a reallycomprehensive approach.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
You're exactly right, it's not about tricks at all.
It's a full, reallycomprehensive approach.
You're exactly right, it's notabout tricks at all, it's a full
spectrum effort.
You need a blend of really highquality content, solid
technical SEO, smart digital PRand even reputation engineering.
And, yes, it requires seriousinvestment.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Can you break that down?
What are the core components?
Sure.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
I think there are four really essential pillars.
First, and maybe most obviously, high quality AI optimized
content.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Okay, Content is king has been around forever.
How has that changedspecifically for the AI era?
What kind of content actuallywins now?
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Well, the bar has been raised dramatically.
If you want your content to bechosen as a trusted source in an
AI summary, it needs to be morethan just okay.
It needs to be exceptionallyinformative, really
well-structured, concise wherepossible, and demonstrably
trustworthy.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Trustworthy how.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Through things like citing sources, showing
expertise, being accurate andup-to-date and, ideally,
bringing something new to thetable, maybe a novel perspective
or even a contrarian viewpointthat's well-supported.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
So we're talking more than just standard blog posts.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Oh, yeah, we're talking about publishing truly
in-depth articles, maybestructured FAQs that directly
answer common questions,comprehensive resource hubs that
cover a topic fully, and youabsolutely have to be rigorously
following EAT principles.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Remind us what EAT stands for again.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Experience, expertise , authoritativeness and
trustworthiness.
These signals are more criticalthan ever for AI evaluation and
, crucially, you need to useschema markup.
This is structured data thathelps AI systems understand the
context and relationships withinyour content.
It's essential now.
If the AI can't easily parseyour information, it won't use
(10:31):
it.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
And producing this level of content sounds
expensive.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
It is.
It's not just a writer anymore.
You often need input fromsubject matter experts SEO
strategists guiding thestructure, editors ensuring
quality designers for visuals,maybe even developers for
interactive elements or properschema implementation.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
So what are we talking?
Cost-wise ballpark.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Typical costs, based on our sources, might range from
, say, $500 to $1,500 for asingle high-quality blog post.
For more foundational pillarcontent, you could be looking at
$3,000 or more, and for a fullcampaign to really own a topic,
building out a content cluster,tens of thousands isn't unusual.
Yeah, and to truly dominate atopic in AI search, you'll
(11:12):
likely need dozens of thesehigh-value assets, not just a
handful.
It's about building acomprehensive digital resource
that AI simply has to rely on.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Okay, pillar one is content.
What's the second pillar?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Second is technical excellence and AI readiness.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Right, you mentioned schema.
What else is involvedtechnically beyond just fixing
the usual website errors?
Sounds like there's a new layerneeded for AI.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
There definitely is.
The basics still matter, Ofcourse, fast page loads, mobile
friendliness, making sure searchengines can crawl your site.
But for AI you need moreadvanced stuff.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Like what.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Advanced schema implementation is key, as we
said.
Also, really clean metadata, aclear heading structure H1s, h2s
, h3s that outlines the contentlogically, and smart internal
linking that essentially createsa knowledge graph within your
own site.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
So you're connecting related concepts.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Exactly.
You're making it easy for AI tosee how different pieces of
information relate to each other, demonstrating your
comprehensive understanding of atopic.
If your content isn't formattedcorrectly or it lacks these
technical signals, it'sbasically invisible to these
generative models, no matter howgood the writing is.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
So this requires real technical SEO expertise, maybe
even developer input.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Absolutely.
You need experts who canperform AI-specific technical
audits.
They're looking for things likeschema presence and correctness
, how accessible the content is,the clarity of the page
structure and readiness forentity-level SEO, which is about
optimizing for the actualthings or concepts AI
understands, not just keywords.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
It's like building the framework.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Yeah, someone called it building the scaffolding for
the AI to climb.
Without that structure, yourbrilliant content just sits
there unseen at ground level.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Okay, content, technical excellence.
What's pillar number three?
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Third is authority building through digital PR and
earned media.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Why is offsite authority suddenly so crucial?
It feels like AI's focus ontrust really amplifies this.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Precisely Because AI models heavily favor content
that is trusted and widelyreferenced across the web.
It's not just about what yousay on your site.
It's about who else trusts andpoints to you.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
So getting links is still important.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Yes, but it's evolved .
It means actively securingbacklinks from genuinely
reputable publications, earningbrand mentions on high-trust
domains, creating assets thatpeople naturally want to share
and getting quoted byinfluencers, journalists or
other experts in your field.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Interesting.
There was a stat about this,wasn't there?
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Yeah, a study by Edelman suggested that up to 90%
of the citations we see in AIsummaries actually come from
earned media sources, notdirectly from the brand's own
website 90%, so it's reallyabout third-party validation.
Exactly.
This isn't old-school backlinkstuffing or buying links.
This is modern digital PR.
It might involve pitchinginsightful articles, maybe
(14:00):
hiring a PR firm, sponsoringrelevant research, engaging
constructively on platforms likeReddit or Quora, even creating
valuable YouTube content.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Sounds resource intensive.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
It definitely is, but every piece of credible
third-party validation directlycontributes to your site's
overall trust profile, which isa huge factor in whether AI
systems will see you as areliable source worth
recommending.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Okay, makes sense.
Content, tech, authority, PR.
What's the fourth and finalpillar?
Speaker 2 (14:27):
And the fourth is continuous monitoring and
iteration.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
How dynamic is this compared to, say, SEO five years
ago?
Does AI make things changefaster?
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Much more dynamic, I'd say, and definitely less
forgiving.
Just because you show up in anAI overview today doesn't
guarantee you'll be theretomorrow.
Google, Perplexity, ChatGPTthey're all constantly learning
and updating their models.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
So you can't just set it and forget it.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Absolutely not Winning.
Programs now must includeregular, probably monthly,
tracking of visibility in bothtraditional search results and
these new AI features.
You need tools or processes tospot when your brand gets
mentioned in generative answers.
You need ongoing competitiveintelligence to see what's
working for others, and you needregular content refreshes to
keep information accurate andrelevant.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
And all this data feeds back into the strategy.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
It has to.
Adjustments need to be based onreal-time data and observed
performance, not justassumptions or gut feelings.
This is really where you seethe difference between a vendor
just executing tasks and a truestrategic partner.
The best teams act like anembedded growth function,
constantly monitoring, analyzingand adapting the strategy.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Wow, okay, that's a really comprehensive picture.
So when we talk about theinvestment needed for all this,
it's clearly not just buying SEOservices in the old sense, is
it?
What are you really investingin?
Speaker 2 (15:50):
You've nailed it.
It's not just services.
You're investing in what someare calling strategy
infrastructure.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Strategy infrastructure.
Explain that.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Well, if your current SEO plan is still just about,
you know, tweaking a few metatags here and there, or maybe
publishing one or two blog postsa month, you're just not
operating at the level requiredto compete, let alone lead in AI
search.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
So what is required?
Speaker 2 (16:10):
To really dominate this space.
You need a comprehensiveroadmap covering all four
pillars we just talked about.
You need a cross-functionalteam or an agency partner acting
as one that gets content, tech,PR and data.
You need a publishing modelthat can create high-quality
content at scale and speed.
You need a proper measurementsystem, tracking both AI
(16:31):
visibility and traditionalmetrics and, critically, you
need the funding to actuallysupport all of that consistently
.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
So it's much bigger than just hiring an SEO person
or a cheap agency.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Way bigger.
It's not a one-person job.
It's not a one-tool solution.
It's definitely not a smallmonthly retainer anymore.
You're not just paying for SEOtasks.
You are investing in buildingsearch authority infrastructure
that will basically define howdiscoverable your brand is for
the foreseeable future.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
OK, that brings us to maybe a hard truth for some
listeners those traditional SEOretainers, the ones many
businesses have relied on foryears, are they essentially
failing?
Now, what's the real risk ofsticking with that outdated
model?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
The risk is huge, honestly.
The risk is huge, honestly.
That legacy model maybe paying$1,500, $3,000, even $5,000 a
month for a vaguely definedbundle of optimization
activities.
It's just dangerously outdatedfor this AI era.
Why dangerous?
Because many providersoperating on that model are
still selling undefinedretainers.
They offer minimal contentvolume, like we said, maybe one
(17:33):
or two blog posts a month and,crucially, they often have zero
strategic emphasis on AIreadiness or even the capability
to measure if you're showing upin AI citations.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
So you might be paying but getting no relevant
results.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Exactly their work is specifically helping you get
visibility in AI-generatedresults, then frankly, you're
probably wasting money and,maybe more importantly, wasting
precious time while competitorspull ahead.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Okay.
So if that old model is broken,what should businesses actually
be paying for today?
If you want to investstrategically for that long-term
advantage, what does theinvestment cover?
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Right.
So today, seo success isn'tjust about ranking for keywords
anymore.
It's about being referenced,being recommended and being
remembered by these AI systems.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Referenced, recommended, remembered.
I like that.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Yeah.
So a strategic investment needsto cover all the pillars.
That means robust technical andstructural SEO setup.
It means strategic contentclustering, creating groups of
related content, maybe dozens ofarticles per core topic
published aggressively, not justtrickling out blog posts.
It also includes active brandsignal building, getting those
(18:41):
valuable offsite mentions,encouraging positive reviews,
generating new citations and, ofcourse, specific AI visibility
tracking Are you actuallyappearing in Google overviews?
Perplexity answers, chat, gptresponses.
Plus that ongoing intelligencegathering and optimization loop,
constantly refining thestrategy based on data.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
So it's much more proactive and integrated.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Totally the best.
Agencies aren't just sellingSEO packages anymore.
They're essentially engineeringan entire ecosystem for your
brand, an ecosystem designedspecifically to build and
demonstrate authority to bothusers and AI.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
All right, let's get practical for listeners trying
to figure out budgets what aresome realistic starting points
for this kind of strategicinvestment in, say, 2025?
What?
Speaker 2 (19:28):
kind of money facilitates real impact.
Ok, based on the sources, let'sbreak it down by typical
business stage, bearing in mindthese are starting points, not
necessarily the end goal For asmall business.
You might look at afoundational project, getting
the strategy and tech right,costing maybe $10,000 to $20,000
as a one-time investment.
Then an ongoing retainer couldbe $2,000 to $5,000 a month, but
(19:49):
that might be for a shared orfractional role.
Content budget Often it's DIYat this level, which is a
significant time commitment.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Okay, makes sense.
What about mid-market?
Speaker 2 (19:58):
For a mid-market company, that foundational
project might be more in the$20,000 to $60,000 range.
The ongoing retainer could be$5,000 to $15,000 a month and
the dedicated content budgetcould realistically be anywhere
from $50,000 to $150,000 or moreper year to produce the
necessary volume and quality.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Right, a serious commitment and for enterprise.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
At the enterprise level, everything scales up.
The foundational project couldeasily be $50,000 to $150,000,
maybe even more.
The ongoing strategic retainermight range from $15,000 to
$50,000 plus per month and thecontent budget we're talking
$250,000 to $1 million, orpotentially even more, per year.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Yeah, these are significant numbers, but they
reflect the level of strategicdepth, content, volume,
technical expertise and ongoinganalysis required to be truly
competitive and earn thosevaluable AI citations in major
markets.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
So what if someone listening just doesn't have that
kind of budget, especially fora high-level agency, right now?
Is there an alternative path orare they just out of luck?
Speaker 2 (21:00):
No, definitely not out of luck, but you have to be
realistic.
The first piece of advice isdon't waste money on those
low-value SEO gimmicks we talkedabout.
You're genuinely better offdoing nothing, or rather doing
it yourself, than paying someonea small amount to just check
boxes that AI is going tocompletely ignore than paying
someone a small amount to justcheck boxes that AI is going to
completely ignore.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
So what?
Speaker 2 (21:21):
does doing it yourself look like realistically
for, say, a small company or asolo founder.
Ok, a realistic path couldinvolve maybe investing in some
focused foundational help upfront.
Hire a good consultant or asmall agency for a limited
project just to get yourtechnical SEO set up right and
maybe get some initial strategicguidance.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
OK, get the foundation solid.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Exactly, then you likely need to become your own
content engine.
You're the subject matterexpert, right?
So you need to produce thatpersistent, high quality
original content.
Start aiming for maybe two orthree substantial pieces per
week, focusing on building outtopic clusters, not just random
blog posts.
You can use AI tools to helpwith drafting or outlining, but
(21:58):
the core expertise and insightshave to come from you.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Right Use AI as an assistant, not a replacement.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Precisely, yeah, and make sure you use schema markup
and clear formatting so AI canactually read and understand
your content.
Set up some basic tracking,even just manually checking key
AI platforms to see if and whereyour content is starting to
appear.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
It sounds like a lot of work.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
It is.
There's a saying right If youdon't have money, use time.
If you don't have time, don'texpect results.
The companies that are winning,regardless of size, are the
ones publishing morehigh-quality content, optimizing
more deeply based on data andgenerally showing up smarter.
If you can't afford the fullagency route, you need to
compensate with your ownexpertise and significant time
(22:40):
investment.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
That's very clear.
Okay, so, whether you'respending $5,000 a month or
$50,000 a month, or even doingit yourself, how do you evaluate
a potential partner, or evenjust your own strategy?
What should you look for?
How do you vet someone in thisnew AI era?
Speaker 2 (22:56):
That's a great question.
There are probably five crucialquestions you need to ask any
potential partner, or even askyourself about your own efforts.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
OK, what are they?
Speaker 2 (23:04):
First, can they clearly show how their proposed
strategy specifically connectsto improving your visibility and
AI search results?
Ask them directly about theirplans for structured content,
their topic cluster strategy,what their goals are around
earning citations.
If it's vague, that's a redflag.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Right Be specific about AI Number two.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Second, do they recommend or require a
significant one-time foundationproject If they just want to
jump straight into a monthlyretainer without deeply
analyzing your site, your marketand setting up the technical
and strategic groundwork?
How are they really setting youup for long-term success versus
just ongoing busy work?
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Good point.
What's third?
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Third, how do they define success beyond just
traditional keyword rankings?
You want to hear them talkingabout metrics like appearing in
AI summaries, increasing yourover-eye share of the search
results page, s-e-r-p share andultimately tying efforts back to
actual revenue impact.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Makes sense.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Number four Fourth, what is their realistic content
production capacity and howquickly can they scale it if
needed?
As we've established, contentvolume and quality are critical.
Be very wary of anyonepromising one blog post a month.
That's not a strategy, it'sbarely a pulse.
It's a recipe for fallingbehind.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Okay, capacity and speed.
And the last one.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
And finally, number five have they actually proven
they can get results in this newlandscape?
Does their own agency websiteshow up prominently in AI
results for relevant queries?
Can they show you solid,verifiable case studies
demonstrating improved AIvisibility for clients similar
to you?
So proof is key Absolutely.
(24:38):
If they can't answer these fivequestions with real clarity,
specific examples and genuineconfidence, honestly, you should
probably walk away.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
That's incredibly helpful.
It really sounds like theultimate decision for C-suite
leaders for anyone planningbudgets is pretty stark.
I view AI-era SEO as a corestrategic growth driver, not
just some line item marketingexpense to be minimized.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
That's exactly it.
Think about it.
You wouldn't expect to dominateyour market with a skeleton
sales team right, or with abare-bones PR effort.
It's the same here.
You can't expect to achievedominant visibility in search,
especially now with AI raisingthe stakes, with an undersized,
underfunded or ill-defined SEOinvestment.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
So patience and realistic expectations are also
key.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Definitely Set realistic goals and timelines.
Building true authority takestime.
It isn't built overnight, andany reputable provider will tell
you that.
Beware of anyone promisinginstant results under
Underinvesting early.
Trying to cut corners now oftenjust leads to sunk costs down
the line with very little toshow for it.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Better to invest properly from the start.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Yeah, the much better path is to launch a right-sized
campaign now, whateverright-sized means for your
business stage and goals, whilethese early mover opportunities
still exist, Because the costand difficulty of earning that
AI trust and visibility it'sonly going to increase from here
.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
And keep those red flags in mind.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Absolutely Steer clear of vague promises like
guaranteed AI rankings.
Remember, the only reliablepath to AI visibility is the
same path that builds strong,sustainable traditional SEO
performance, excellentstructured content, solid
technical foundations andgenuine off-site authority
earned through PR and reputation.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
And integrate it with everything else.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Yes, treat SEO as a deeply connected part of your
overall growth strategy.
Coordinate your SEO effortswith PR campaigns, product
launches, paid media pushes, getbuy-in across different
departments.
The companies truly winning noware the ones who've elevated
SEO from being just a siloedservice to being a strategic
pillar of the business, a trueinfrastructure investment.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
So, to wrap up, the core message seems clear In this
new AI-driven search landscape,the old cheap tricks, the
shallow content, they're justout, they won't work.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Absolutely Reinforcing that.
Winning today means committingto quality.
It means investing properly incontent, technology and
authority.
It means working with partnersor building internal teams who
genuinely understand how thesecomplex AI systems surface
information and, critically, itmeans moving with a sense of
urgency before that window ofearly mover advantage narrows
even further.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
And for those companies, those leaders who do
make that commitment, thepotential reward sounds
significant.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
It really is.
Yeah, it's the potential fortrusted top of funnel visibility
and what's becoming a shrinkingfield of winners.
It's building lasting brandauthority and, ultimately, it's
fueling your sales funnel withorganic interest coming directly
from the most prominent part ofthe modern search experience.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
A powerful potential upside.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Plan accordingly, fund it properly and get there
first.
So if you're leading a business today, maybe you felt
it right that subtle sense thatorganic traffic isn't quite
what it was.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Yeah, or the inbound leads feel a bit sluggish.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Exactly.
And then leadership comesknocking, asking OK, where
should this growth budgetactually go?
Because, let's face it, thesearch landscape, I mean the
whole economics of it, hasfundamentally changed.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You really have.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Which is why today we're doing a deep dive into AI
era, seo strategy and budget forsuccess.
We've pulled together a lot ofkey insights from our source
material to hopefully cutthrough some of the noise for
you.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yeah, our mission here is really to pull out those
crucial insights we want tolook at.
You know what you shouldactually expect now with AI
driven search, why a lot of theold methods just don't measure
up anymore, and, critically, howto budget strategically so you
actually succeed.
Okay, we've got some, I think,surprising facts and definitely
some actionable stuff thatshould give you a real shortcut
(00:56):
to getting up to speed.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
All right, let's dig in then.
What is this fundamental shift?
What's forcing everyone tocompletely rethink search
strategy right now?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Well, the big seismic event was really Google
launching its AI overviews.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
That changed the game .
Speaker 1 (01:09):
How so.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
We're now seeing stats like nearly 60% of
searches ending without a click.
People get the answer rightthere in the overview 60%.
Yeah, and on top of that you'vegot a growing number of users
just bypassing Google altogether, going straight to tools like
ChatGPP or Perplexity.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Okay, that is a massive shift.
So what's the core implicationfor businesses then?
If clicks are down butinformation is still being
delivered, the implication ishuge.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
It doesn't matter quite as much which tool someone
uses Google Perplexity,whatever.
The result is similar.
Only a tiny handful of reallytrusted sources actually get
cited in those AI summaries.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
And everyone else is just invisible.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Pretty much, yeah, invisible.
So for revenue teams thistotally reshapes expectations.
You should probably expectlower click-through rates from
your traditional organicrankings.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Right.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
But the flip side is if your content does get cited
by AI, that carries immensetrust.
We're seeing much higherconversion rates from that
traffic.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
OK, higher quality traffic potentially.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Definitely.
But and this is the catch theclimb to build that level of
authority, the kind needed forAI citations, it's significantly
steeper.
Now.
It's a whole new hurdle.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
That steeper climb makes me immediately think about
, you know, all those quick fixSEO promises you see advertised
everywhere.
Are those basically just deadin the water?
Now?
Why do the old tactics, thebargain basement, seo packages,
fall so short in this newreality?
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Well, fundamentally, it's because they cut corners,
and AI, well, it's not veryforgiving of shortcuts.
How do they cut corners?
Low budget providers.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
It's not very forgiving of shortcuts.
How do they cut?
Speaker 2 (02:45):
corners, low budget providers.
They scale by, skipping reallycritical steps.
They automate things thathonestly need careful, expert
human judgment.
There's a great quote from anindustry vet Cheap SEO services
aren't good and good SEOservices aren't cheap.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
You get what you pay for.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
You really really do, Especially now.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
And often that translates to like minimal
content, minimal links.
Right Given that AI seems towant deep, trustworthy
information, why is that such akiller now?
Speaker 2 (03:11):
It's a huge problem, because effective SEO today I
mean really effective demandshigh quality, genuinely resource
intensive content and strongbacklinks.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
So like proper research expert input.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Exactly A single well-researched article that
could easily cost hundreds,maybe even thousands, to produce
properly.
Cheap plans just can't affordthat volume of original expert
content or the effort needed toget reputable links.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
So what do they do instead?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
They often fall back on, you know, low-quality, thin
content, sometimes evenplagiarized stuff.
Ai systems are specificallydesigned to ignore or even
penalize that.
Without robust original contentand real link building, your
height just won't build theauthority AI results rely on.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
And what about the strategy itself?
Those cheap packages often seemvery one size fits all.
Does that kind of genericapproach work with AI?
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Not really no Bargain .
Seo often uses the exact sametemplate for every single client
.
Doesn't matter the industry,the audience.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Split and play.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Right and that scalable approach.
It just leads to mediocreresults because it completely
lacks the customization and thestrategic depth that you need to
stand out as an authority in anAI driven market.
It just doesn't cut it.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Okay, here's where I think it gets really interesting
and maybe a bit alarming thosewild promises, what's the
biggest red flag listenersshould watch out for?
I keep hearing things likewe'll get you listed first in
chat GPT.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Right, okay, that is flat out false.
Yeah, period.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Just not possible.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
It's pure snake oil.
There's no concept of beingindexed or ranking hashtag one
in chat, gpt or similar AI tools.
They don't work like that.
They don't have a traditionalindex or a ranking algorithm.
You can game.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
So how do they generate answers?
Speaker 2 (04:54):
AI assistants pull answers together based on their
massive training data andsometimes real-time web sources,
but there's no public rankingto manipulate, so any vendor
guaranteeing you placement likethat they're selling a fantasy.
So the only way is the onlypath to potentially showing up
in AI answers is to consistentlybe a high quality, genuinely
(05:14):
authoritative source across thewhole web.
That's a very different andmuch harder thing than just
ranking hashtag one for akeyword.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
And talking about pitfalls.
This really highlights the costof just doing nothing or doing
the wrong thing.
What's the hidden cost ofsticking with a low cost,
underperforming SEO strategy?
Speaker 2 (05:34):
I think the biggest hidden cost is wasted time.
That's huge.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Right.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
SEO has always been a long game.
We know that, but now speed isabsolutely paramount.
If you spend six months, 12months on some cheap approach
that just doesn't deliver, yourcompetitors the ones who are
investing correctly will haveraced ahead.
There's another good quote youcan always replace your SEO
provider, but you can never getback wasted time In this
environment.
That kind of delay.
(05:58):
You can never get back wastedtime In this environment.
That kind of delay it's deadly.
It lets your rivals build theirauthority, fortify their lead
in those AI results.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
They become the default answer.
So, knowing those risks ofinaction, why is acting now,
like right now, so critical?
What's the urgency?
Speaker 2 (06:12):
The urgency comes from the fact that we're still,
relatively speaking, in theearly innings of this AI-centric
search world.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Still early.
Days.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Yeah, I think so, and that means there's still a huge
white space opportunity forforward-thinking brands.
If you move decisively now, youcan potentially leapfrog
competitors who are maybe stillhesitating or sticking to old
methods.
It's an investment in lockingdown future visibility.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
And you mentioned this advantage it compounds over
time.
It's not just a one down futurevisibility.
And you mentioned thisadvantage it compounds over time
.
It's not just a one-off boost.
Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
There's a powerful virtuous cycle at play.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
How does that?
Speaker 2 (06:46):
work.
Okay.
So let's say Google's SGE orChatGPT quotes one of your pages
.
That early citation.
It tends to lead to more clicksfrom interested users, Right.
More clicks then drive strongersignals back to Google and
other platforms.
Things like more traffic,longer time on site, maybe
people linking to you.
Naturally, All that boosts youroverall domain authority.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
OK, so you look more credible.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Exactly and stronger signals then make future
citations more likely, becausethe AI models start to see your
site as one they already trust.
They favor reliability.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
So it snowballs.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
It really does.
This virtuous cycle creates ahighly defensible lead.
It widens the gap that yourrivals have to try and close
later.
As one expert, will Melton, putit early citations drive
backlinks, brand trust andfurther AI visibility it all
feeds itself.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
So what's the flip side, what's the real strategic
cost of waiting, of not gettinginto that cycle early?
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Well, that visibility gap.
It just widens week by week,month by month.
Your competitors who areshowing up in AI answers.
They're actively training boththe algorithms and the users to
see them as the defaultauthority.
Oh yeah, Trying to dislodgethose incumbents later it
becomes incredibly expensive,maybe even impossible in some
niches.
And beyond that, there's themassive opportunity cost.
(08:01):
Every quarter you spend justtesting the waters or delaying,
that's another quarter wherehigh intent traffic goes
straight to someone else's salesfunnel, not yours.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
So for the executives listening, thinking about
strategy and budget, the cleartakeaway seems to be speed and
commitment are absolutelycritical on this new
battleground 100%.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
A decisive, properly funded, AI-focused SEO program
launched today can potentiallylock in top-of-funnel visibility
for years.
Half measures delaying actionyou risk being permanently stuck
in second place in what'srapidly becoming a
winner-takes-most kind ofenvironment.
Right, it truly is, as oursources put it, the battleground
(08:41):
where visibility is eitherearned or erased.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Okay, so let's shift to the positive, then.
Enough about the pitfalls.
What does it actually take towin, to achieve that top
visibility in AI search?
It sounds like it's not abouttricks.
It's about a reallycomprehensive approach.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
You're exactly right, it's not about tricks at all.
It's a full, reallycomprehensive approach.
You're exactly right, it's notabout tricks at all, it's a full
spectrum effort.
You need a blend of really highquality content, solid
technical SEO, smart digital PRand even reputation engineering.
And, yes, it requires seriousinvestment.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Can you break that down?
What are the core components?
Sure.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
I think there are four really essential pillars.
First, and maybe most obviously, high quality AI optimized
content.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Okay, Content is king has been around forever.
How has that changedspecifically for the AI era?
What kind of content actuallywins now?
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Well, the bar has been raised dramatically.
If you want your content to bechosen as a trusted source in an
AI summary, it needs to be morethan just okay.
It needs to be exceptionallyinformative, really
well-structured, concise wherepossible, and demonstrably
trustworthy.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Trustworthy how.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Through things like citing sources, showing
expertise, being accurate andup-to-date and, ideally,
bringing something new to thetable, maybe a novel perspective
or even a contrarian viewpointthat's well-supported.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
So we're talking more than just standard blog posts.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Oh, yeah, we're talking about publishing truly
in-depth articles, maybestructured FAQs that directly
answer common questions,comprehensive resource hubs that
cover a topic fully, and youabsolutely have to be rigorously
following EAT principles.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Remind us what EAT stands for again.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Experience, expertise , authoritativeness and
trustworthiness.
These signals are more criticalthan ever for AI evaluation and
, crucially, you need to useschema markup.
This is structured data thathelps AI systems understand the
context and relationships withinyour content.
It's essential now.
If the AI can't easily parseyour information, it won't use
(10:31):
it.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
And producing this level of content sounds
expensive.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
It is.
It's not just a writer anymore.
You often need input fromsubject matter experts SEO
strategists guiding thestructure, editors ensuring
quality designers for visuals,maybe even developers for
interactive elements or properschema implementation.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
So what are we talking?
Cost-wise ballpark.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Typical costs, based on our sources, might range from
, say, $500 to $1,500 for asingle high-quality blog post.
For more foundational pillarcontent, you could be looking at
$3,000 or more, and for a fullcampaign to really own a topic,
building out a content cluster,tens of thousands isn't unusual.
Yeah, and to truly dominate atopic in AI search, you'll
(11:12):
likely need dozens of thesehigh-value assets, not just a
handful.
It's about building acomprehensive digital resource
that AI simply has to rely on.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Okay, pillar one is content.
What's the second pillar?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Second is technical excellence and AI readiness.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Right, you mentioned schema.
What else is involvedtechnically beyond just fixing
the usual website errors?
Sounds like there's a new layerneeded for AI.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
There definitely is.
The basics still matter, Ofcourse, fast page loads, mobile
friendliness, making sure searchengines can crawl your site.
But for AI you need moreadvanced stuff.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Like what.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Advanced schema implementation is key, as we
said.
Also, really clean metadata, aclear heading structure H1s, h2s
, h3s that outlines the contentlogically, and smart internal
linking that essentially createsa knowledge graph within your
own site.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
So you're connecting related concepts.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Exactly.
You're making it easy for AI tosee how different pieces of
information relate to each other, demonstrating your
comprehensive understanding of atopic.
If your content isn't formattedcorrectly or it lacks these
technical signals, it'sbasically invisible to these
generative models, no matter howgood the writing is.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
So this requires real technical SEO expertise, maybe
even developer input.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Absolutely.
You need experts who canperform AI-specific technical
audits.
They're looking for things likeschema presence and correctness
, how accessible the content is,the clarity of the page
structure and readiness forentity-level SEO, which is about
optimizing for the actualthings or concepts AI
understands, not just keywords.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
It's like building the framework.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Yeah, someone called it building the scaffolding for
the AI to climb.
Without that structure, yourbrilliant content just sits
there unseen at ground level.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Okay, content, technical excellence.
What's pillar number three?
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Third is authority building through digital PR and
earned media.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Why is offsite authority suddenly so crucial?
It feels like AI's focus ontrust really amplifies this.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Precisely Because AI models heavily favor content
that is trusted and widelyreferenced across the web.
It's not just about what yousay on your site.
It's about who else trusts andpoints to you.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
So getting links is still important.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Yes, but it's evolved .
It means actively securingbacklinks from genuinely
reputable publications, earningbrand mentions on high-trust
domains, creating assets thatpeople naturally want to share
and getting quoted byinfluencers, journalists or
other experts in your field.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Interesting.
There was a stat about this,wasn't there?
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Yeah, a study by Edelman suggested that up to 90%
of the citations we see in AIsummaries actually come from
earned media sources, notdirectly from the brand's own
website 90%, so it's reallyabout third-party validation.
Exactly.
This isn't old-school backlinkstuffing or buying links.
This is modern digital PR.
It might involve pitchinginsightful articles, maybe
(14:00):
hiring a PR firm, sponsoringrelevant research, engaging
constructively on platforms likeReddit or Quora, even creating
valuable YouTube content.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Sounds resource intensive.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
It definitely is, but every piece of credible
third-party validation directlycontributes to your site's
overall trust profile, which isa huge factor in whether AI
systems will see you as areliable source worth
recommending.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Okay, makes sense.
Content, tech, authority, PR.
What's the fourth and finalpillar?
Speaker 2 (14:27):
And the fourth is continuous monitoring and
iteration.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
How dynamic is this compared to, say, SEO five years
ago?
Does AI make things changefaster?
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Much more dynamic, I'd say, and definitely less
forgiving.
Just because you show up in anAI overview today doesn't
guarantee you'll be theretomorrow.
Google, Perplexity, ChatGPTthey're all constantly learning
and updating their models.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
So you can't just set it and forget it.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Absolutely not Winning.
Programs now must includeregular, probably monthly,
tracking of visibility in bothtraditional search results and
these new AI features.
You need tools or processes tospot when your brand gets
mentioned in generative answers.
You need ongoing competitiveintelligence to see what's
working for others, and you needregular content refreshes to
keep information accurate andrelevant.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
And all this data feeds back into the strategy.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
It has to.
Adjustments need to be based onreal-time data and observed
performance, not justassumptions or gut feelings.
This is really where you seethe difference between a vendor
just executing tasks and a truestrategic partner.
The best teams act like anembedded growth function,
constantly monitoring, analyzingand adapting the strategy.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Wow, okay, that's a really comprehensive picture.
So when we talk about theinvestment needed for all this,
it's clearly not just buying SEOservices in the old sense, is
it?
What are you really investingin?
Speaker 2 (15:50):
You've nailed it.
It's not just services.
You're investing in what someare calling strategy
infrastructure.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Strategy infrastructure.
Explain that.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Well, if your current SEO plan is still just about,
you know, tweaking a few metatags here and there, or maybe
publishing one or two blog postsa month, you're just not
operating at the level requiredto compete, let alone lead in AI
search.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
So what is required?
Speaker 2 (16:10):
To really dominate this space.
You need a comprehensiveroadmap covering all four
pillars we just talked about.
You need a cross-functionalteam or an agency partner acting
as one that gets content, tech,PR and data.
You need a publishing modelthat can create high-quality
content at scale and speed.
You need a proper measurementsystem, tracking both AI
(16:31):
visibility and traditionalmetrics and, critically, you
need the funding to actuallysupport all of that consistently
.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
So it's much bigger than just hiring an SEO person
or a cheap agency.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Way bigger.
It's not a one-person job.
It's not a one-tool solution.
It's definitely not a smallmonthly retainer anymore.
You're not just paying for SEOtasks.
You are investing in buildingsearch authority infrastructure
that will basically define howdiscoverable your brand is for
the foreseeable future.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
OK, that brings us to maybe a hard truth for some
listeners those traditional SEOretainers, the ones many
businesses have relied on foryears, are they essentially
failing?
Now, what's the real risk ofsticking with that outdated
model?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
The risk is huge, honestly.
The risk is huge, honestly.
That legacy model maybe paying$1,500, $3,000, even $5,000 a
month for a vaguely definedbundle of optimization
activities.
It's just dangerously outdatedfor this AI era.
Why dangerous?
Because many providersoperating on that model are
still selling undefinedretainers.
They offer minimal contentvolume, like we said, maybe one
(17:33):
or two blog posts a month and,crucially, they often have zero
strategic emphasis on AIreadiness or even the capability
to measure if you're showing upin AI citations.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
So you might be paying but getting no relevant
results.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Exactly their work is specifically helping you get
visibility in AI-generatedresults, then frankly, you're
probably wasting money and,maybe more importantly, wasting
precious time while competitorspull ahead.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Okay.
So if that old model is broken,what should businesses actually
be paying for today?
If you want to investstrategically for that long-term
advantage, what does theinvestment cover?
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Right.
So today, seo success isn'tjust about ranking for keywords
anymore.
It's about being referenced,being recommended and being
remembered by these AI systems.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Referenced, recommended, remembered.
I like that.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Yeah.
So a strategic investment needsto cover all the pillars.
That means robust technical andstructural SEO setup.
It means strategic contentclustering, creating groups of
related content, maybe dozens ofarticles per core topic
published aggressively, not justtrickling out blog posts.
It also includes active brandsignal building, getting those
(18:41):
valuable offsite mentions,encouraging positive reviews,
generating new citations and, ofcourse, specific AI visibility
tracking Are you actuallyappearing in Google overviews?
Perplexity answers, chat, gptresponses.
Plus that ongoing intelligencegathering and optimization loop,
constantly refining thestrategy based on data.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
So it's much more proactive and integrated.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Totally the best.
Agencies aren't just sellingSEO packages anymore.
They're essentially engineeringan entire ecosystem for your
brand, an ecosystem designedspecifically to build and
demonstrate authority to bothusers and AI.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
All right, let's get practical for listeners trying
to figure out budgets what aresome realistic starting points
for this kind of strategicinvestment in, say, 2025?
What?
Speaker 2 (19:28):
kind of money facilitates real impact.
Ok, based on the sources, let'sbreak it down by typical
business stage, bearing in mindthese are starting points, not
necessarily the end goal For asmall business.
You might look at afoundational project, getting
the strategy and tech right,costing maybe $10,000 to $20,000
as a one-time investment.
Then an ongoing retainer couldbe $2,000 to $5,000 a month, but
(19:49):
that might be for a shared orfractional role.
Content budget Often it's DIYat this level, which is a
significant time commitment.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Okay, makes sense.
What about mid-market?
Speaker 2 (19:58):
For a mid-market company, that foundational
project might be more in the$20,000 to $60,000 range.
The ongoing retainer could be$5,000 to $15,000 a month and
the dedicated content budgetcould realistically be anywhere
from $50,000 to $150,000 or moreper year to produce the
necessary volume and quality.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Right, a serious commitment and for enterprise.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
At the enterprise level, everything scales up.
The foundational project couldeasily be $50,000 to $150,000,
maybe even more.
The ongoing strategic retainermight range from $15,000 to
$50,000 plus per month and thecontent budget we're talking
$250,000 to $1 million, orpotentially even more, per year.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Yeah, these are significant numbers, but they
reflect the level of strategicdepth, content, volume,
technical expertise and ongoinganalysis required to be truly
competitive and earn thosevaluable AI citations in major
markets.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
So what if someone listening just doesn't have that
kind of budget, especially fora high-level agency, right now?
Is there an alternative path orare they just out of luck?
Speaker 2 (21:00):
No, definitely not out of luck, but you have to be
realistic.
The first piece of advice isdon't waste money on those
low-value SEO gimmicks we talkedabout.
You're genuinely better offdoing nothing, or rather doing
it yourself, than paying someonea small amount to just check
boxes that AI is going tocompletely ignore than paying
someone a small amount to justcheck boxes that AI is going to
completely ignore.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
So what?
Speaker 2 (21:21):
does doing it yourself look like realistically
for, say, a small company or asolo founder.
Ok, a realistic path couldinvolve maybe investing in some
focused foundational help upfront.
Hire a good consultant or asmall agency for a limited
project just to get yourtechnical SEO set up right and
maybe get some initial strategicguidance.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
OK, get the foundation solid.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Exactly, then you likely need to become your own
content engine.
You're the subject matterexpert, right?
So you need to produce thatpersistent, high quality
original content.
Start aiming for maybe two orthree substantial pieces per
week, focusing on building outtopic clusters, not just random
blog posts.
You can use AI tools to helpwith drafting or outlining, but
(21:58):
the core expertise and insightshave to come from you.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Right Use AI as an assistant, not a replacement.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Precisely, yeah, and make sure you use schema markup
and clear formatting so AI canactually read and understand
your content.
Set up some basic tracking,even just manually checking key
AI platforms to see if and whereyour content is starting to
appear.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
It sounds like a lot of work.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
It is.
There's a saying right If youdon't have money, use time.
If you don't have time, don'texpect results.
The companies that are winning,regardless of size, are the
ones publishing morehigh-quality content, optimizing
more deeply based on data andgenerally showing up smarter.
If you can't afford the fullagency route, you need to
compensate with your ownexpertise and significant time
(22:40):
investment.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
That's very clear.
Okay, so, whether you'respending $5,000 a month or
$50,000 a month, or even doingit yourself, how do you evaluate
a potential partner, or evenjust your own strategy?
What should you look for?
How do you vet someone in thisnew AI era?
Speaker 2 (22:56):
That's a great question.
There are probably five crucialquestions you need to ask any
potential partner, or even askyourself about your own efforts.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
OK, what are they?
Speaker 2 (23:04):
First, can they clearly show how their proposed
strategy specifically connectsto improving your visibility and
AI search results?
Ask them directly about theirplans for structured content,
their topic cluster strategy,what their goals are around
earning citations.
If it's vague, that's a redflag.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Right Be specific about AI Number two.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Second, do they recommend or require a
significant one-time foundationproject If they just want to
jump straight into a monthlyretainer without deeply
analyzing your site, your marketand setting up the technical
and strategic groundwork?
How are they really setting youup for long-term success versus
just ongoing busy work?
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Good point.
What's third?
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Third, how do they define success beyond just
traditional keyword rankings?
You want to hear them talkingabout metrics like appearing in
AI summaries, increasing yourover-eye share of the search
results page, s-e-r-p share andultimately tying efforts back to
actual revenue impact.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Makes sense.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Number four Fourth, what is their realistic content
production capacity and howquickly can they scale it if
needed?
As we've established, contentvolume and quality are critical.
Be very wary of anyonepromising one blog post a month.
That's not a strategy, it'sbarely a pulse.
It's a recipe for fallingbehind.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Okay, capacity and speed.
And the last one.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
And finally, number five have they actually proven
they can get results in this newlandscape?
Does their own agency websiteshow up prominently in AI
results for relevant queries?
Can they show you solid,verifiable case studies
demonstrating improved AIvisibility for clients similar
to you?
So proof is key Absolutely.
(24:38):
If they can't answer these fivequestions with real clarity,
specific examples and genuineconfidence, honestly, you should
probably walk away.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
That's incredibly helpful.
It really sounds like theultimate decision for C-suite
leaders for anyone planningbudgets is pretty stark.
I view AI-era SEO as a corestrategic growth driver, not
just some line item marketingexpense to be minimized.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
That's exactly it.
Think about it.
You wouldn't expect to dominateyour market with a skeleton
sales team right, or with abare-bones PR effort.
It's the same here.
You can't expect to achievedominant visibility in search,
especially now with AI raisingthe stakes, with an undersized,
underfunded or ill-defined SEOinvestment.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
So patience and realistic expectations are also
key.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Definitely Set realistic goals and timelines.
Building true authority takestime.
It isn't built overnight, andany reputable provider will tell
you that.
Beware of anyone promisinginstant results under
Underinvesting early.
Trying to cut corners now oftenjust leads to sunk costs down
the line with very little toshow for it.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Better to invest properly from the start.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Yeah, the much better path is to launch a right-sized
campaign now, whateverright-sized means for your
business stage and goals, whilethese early mover opportunities
still exist, Because the costand difficulty of earning that
AI trust and visibility it'sonly going to increase from here
.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
And keep those red flags in mind.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Absolutely Steer clear of vague promises like
guaranteed AI rankings.
Remember, the only reliablepath to AI visibility is the
same path that builds strong,sustainable traditional SEO
performance, excellentstructured content, solid
technical foundations andgenuine off-site authority
earned through PR and reputation.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
And integrate it with everything else.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Yes, treat SEO as a deeply connected part of your
overall growth strategy.
Coordinate your SEO effortswith PR campaigns, product
launches, paid media pushes, getbuy-in across different
departments.
The companies truly winning noware the ones who've elevated
SEO from being just a siloedservice to being a strategic
pillar of the business, a trueinfrastructure investment.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
So, to wrap up, the core message seems clear In this
new AI-driven search landscape,the old cheap tricks, the
shallow content, they're justout, they won't work.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Absolutely Reinforcing that.
Winning today means committingto quality.
It means investing properly incontent, technology and
authority.
It means working with partnersor building internal teams who
genuinely understand how thesecomplex AI systems surface
information and, critically, itmeans moving with a sense of
urgency before that window ofearly mover advantage narrows
even further.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
And for those companies, those leaders who do
make that commitment, thepotential reward sounds
significant.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
It really is.
Yeah, it's the potential fortrusted top of funnel visibility
and what's becoming a shrinkingfield of winners.
It's building lasting brandauthority and, ultimately, it's
fueling your sales funnel withorganic interest coming directly
from the most prominent part ofthe modern search experience.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
A powerful potential upside.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Plan accordingly, fund it properly and get there
first.
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