Civil Rights Activism for Farmworkers with Cesar Chavez w/ Rebecca Flores

What happens when one woman decides to take a stand for her community? Join us on a journey through the rich history and activism work of Rebecca Flores. Together, we uncover the trials and triumphs of organizing for civil rights alongside Cesar Chavez and Delores Huerta, and delve into the courageous steps they took to organize farm workers. Rebecca shares her personal experiences of organizing grassroots house meetings in South Texas, shining a light on the plight of those battling for civil rights.

As we venture further, Rebecca exposes the grim realities of migrant workers in San Antonio, painting a picture of her family's experience, the grit of those working the fields, and the uphill battle faced by those without formal education. Ever wondered about the impact of agriculture on communities? Rebecca draws from her own encounters with the displacement of indigenous populations in Texas, the struggles of small family farmers, and the role of organizations in addressing community issues.

While our conversation explores many challenges, it also highlights the power of community engagement and the vital role it plays in effecting change. Rebecca's candid discussion on the gentrification of San Antonio and its impact on affordable housing is an eye-opener. We wrap up by delving into the intimidating role of the Texas Rangers in indigenous and migrant worker communities. This episode promises a captivating journey with Rebecca Flores, where we not only learn from the past but also garner the inspiration to shape a better future.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
As the cosmos connects the universe, water
connects life.
At the Cosmic Water Podcast,we're exploring the history,
mythology and future of thesacred land known as San Antonio
.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
We've had a bit of a sound glitch for the first 3 or
4 minutes of Rebecca speaking,so please bear with us as us
newbies figure out all thispodcasting stuff.
Enjoy.
Welcome to the Cosmic WaterPodcast.
I'm Maureen, I'm Angela, and weare so honored to have Rebecca

(00:46):
Flores with us today.
I wanted to start off by sayingthat the other day Angela sent
me a clip from this punk rockconcert.

Speaker 3 (00:56):
Piñata protest.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
Have you heard of them?
No Well, in their song theysaid Rebecca Flores presente.

Speaker 3 (01:07):
Piñata protest.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
The band.
It was part of their concert.
They went.
Cesar Chavez presente.
Open that light up, yes.

Speaker 4 (01:18):
That makes me proud.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
I was like, wow, that's amazing.
Last week, when we were atlunch, you were talking about
some organizations here in SanAntonio and their activism work.
I was like, was Cesar Chavezlike that?
It was really a moment for mewhere I was like whoa, I'm
sitting here asking you aboutsomething so historical and that

(01:42):
you were part of.
I'm just I'm even like feelingit right now Like it really gave
me chills.
And so I guess, like to startoff, if you could just talk
about kind of your activism workthere with Cesar Chavez and
DeLores Huerta and what thatmeant for you and, I think,
specifically for me.

(02:03):
I'm thinking about just whatI've heard from you how
grassroots it was, like realorganizing.

Speaker 4 (02:10):
It was totally grassroots Because at that point
, of course, when Cesar andDeLores jumped in and said we're
going to organize farm workers,farm workers really had never
been organized.
You know, they had been duringthe when the Wobblies were out
organizing in the 30s and theearly 30s and of course that
whole Wobbly movement wascrushed.
But you know, for all thatperiod from the 30s until when

(02:32):
Cesar and DeLores and hisbrother and their families
decided they were really goingto do something about the things
they had always talked about,then they began some serious,
serious work and it's funny Iwas talking to some folks this
last week about that whole.

(02:53):
Is that, how do you?
How does an individual, youthink about Cesar and DeLores
and their families?
Right, they took a leap offaith that they were going to do
something and they were goingto be successful.
So it was a lot of faith thatthey were going to be successful
.
When they took it, they lefttheir cushiony jobs because at

(03:13):
that time Cesar was thepresident of a community service
organization out of California.
It was a statewide organization.
They were getting paid prettygood money.
Very little class guy, you know,was driving his Volvo or
whatever, and his family wasgood and all of that.
And they said, and if?
He of course, was a farm workerand he knew that farm workers

(03:34):
were always excluded fromanything and everything.
And so he motioned and made anappeal to the board of CSO to
spread out and organize farmworkers in the fields rather
than just people sitting in theurban areas, mexican Americans
in the urban areas.
And the board said no, we'renot going to do that, and so he

(03:55):
quit.
So he quit, he quit his job andhe and his family, helen and
all of his eight kids he haseight kids left.
They left for Delano and Doriswent with him and her family by
that time I don't know how manychildren she had and then
Richard and his family.
And so he had a core group ofpeople who knew him and

(04:18):
respected his ideas and probablywent along, you know, of course
, went along with his ideas andthey struck out.
And so in 1962, he establishedthe CSO and one of the things
that is so very important tounderstand, the things don't
just happen, things fantastic,things just don't happen right.

(04:38):
It takes so much groundwork toget there right.
So he started organizing, withthe help of Fred Ross, who was a
criminal organizer, and doinghouse meetings.
And when I started doing housemeetings here in South Texas,

(04:59):
that was really the key ofgetting people to understand
what a union was and why theywere in the fight.
And so we had a very simpleagenda.
I don't know what his agenda was, but our agenda was very, very
simple.
This is what would happen.
We had a union hall.
We had a hall, and people wouldwalk in because they had
problems right, they hadproblems accessing services that

(05:23):
were supposed to be accessiblebut are difficult to access, and
so they would walk in and Iwould receive them, and so I
would help them with whateverthe problem was.
And then I would say would youcare to have a house meeting in
your house?
And in your house, just invitepeople who you know, that are
farm workers, people who respectyou, people who are friends of

(05:46):
your family.
And they did.
By and large everybody wouldsay yes, let's do that.
And so, since farm workers atthat time, because of their
poverty, the only housing theycould find were in Colonias.
And Colonias in South Texas areunincorporated little villages
that are outside city limits anddon't have any city support,

(06:08):
right, they don't have streets,they don't have lights, they
don't have sewage, they don'thave water, they don't have
anything.
But farm workers wanted a place.
They always wanted a place tocome back to, because when you
migrate you leave, right, andyou got to come back to some
place, and at that time therewas no public housing in South
Texas, and so they had to buy alittle piece of land.

(06:30):
Whatever the conditions inbuying that land were, they had
to buy it and they would eke outtheir monthly payment.
These are called deeds ofcontract, contracts of deed or
something like that, where youpay $5 a month and the deal is
that if you miss a month, thenyou start at the first base all
over again.

(06:50):
You pay for that a lot.
You know, time and time andtime and time again.
It works for poor people, right, but they take a hit, right,
because when they don't pay theyhave to start all over again.
But it was their place andanyway.
So they lived in these coloniasand so that was where we went,
that was where we'd go, and theyknew each other.
They would all work for thesame crew leaders or trokeros

(07:14):
and they knew they workedtogether and so they had a bond.
It might have been a familybond or it could have been
friends, you know, but they wereworkers too, and of course,
then the whole family's work itwas the husband and wife and the
kids all jumped up on thosetrucks and went off to work.
And so that's how we startedorganizing.
We would ask three simplequestions and it was three

(07:34):
meetings that we took time,developed the issues and stuff,
because we didn't assume anyissues and so we would ask what
are the problems you face in thefields?
And they would tell useverything that they and we
would carry the same question todifferent houses and in
different colonias, you know,throughout the valley.

(07:56):
And from that then we startedputting together what the
commonality was, what were themost important ones that people
talked about, and then we knewthose were going to be our
priorities.
But one of the other thingsthat we made sure of doing was
saying then, who's going to takecare of these problems.
Because I think it's very easyfor people to think well, you

(08:18):
are Rebecca, you're the oneright, you're going to take care
of our problems.
And we really established theknowledge and the I guess they
were invested in this wholething that we are the union, all
of us are the union, and so ifthere's any problem out there,
all of us are going to have totake care of it.
And so they agreed to that.
And so then I would say, okay,will you sign on to agree to

(08:41):
being part of this union?
And they would sign on.
We had little cards and theywould sign on and stuff.
And so that's how we developedour membership and that's how we
developed our organizations.
We started doing this in thespring of 1978.
It took us till 1983 to passour first major legislation,

(09:08):
which was workers' compensation,and so what I'm saying is that
things don't change immediately.
Right, there was a lot ofactivities that we had in
between.
Every year we'd have aconvention.
Conventions were importantbecause it showed the workers
the power that they had wheneverybody convened.
Right, the first conventionthat we had in January of 1979,

(09:29):
we had 1,000 delegates on thefloor of that convention floor,
and it was powerful because thenworkers began to see that they
had power Really it's reallyabout, because if you're by
yourself against this big growerdown there, you don't have it.
If you ask for a wage orincrease there, they'll say oh,
who are you Get out of here.
If you don't like working here,leave.

(09:50):
And so they began to see thattogether they created some power
, and so we would have annualconventions, we would have
marches, we would have strikesin the field, we would have all
these things to begin to showworkers that being together and
showing the world that we had astrength by the numbers is that

(10:17):
we in fact were somebody to dealwith, because before that I was
a farm worker and maybe I'mgoing too long.

Speaker 2 (10:24):
No, go for it.

Speaker 4 (10:26):
I was a farm worker and we lived in Nathus closer
county, just south of SanAntonio, and let me tell you, we
never thought we could ask foranything.
We just went to work and Ithink because my mom and my dad,
they just said, okay, we'rehere to work, and so they never

(10:47):
asked for what are we gettingpaid for?
How long are we gonna work?
Do we have anything going forus?
And we never had anything goingfor us.
Nothing, absolutely nothing.
It was very, very undignifiedFor the work that we did, you
know, raising up theagricultural industry on our
shoulders, and it was somethingthat we had nothing.

(11:11):
We had no benefits, we hadabsolutely no benefit.
There was no field sanitation,which is important, you know,
for everybody, not only for theworker but for the consumer, so
that you know that.
You know if you don't havetoilets out there in the fields,
you may have contaminated food,but it's also for our health.

(11:31):
You know we wouldn't urinate,you know, because we were
embarrassed.
You know where do we go.
It just messes up your wholesystem and, of course, our
health, and the heat and thelack of drinking water and the
exposure to the elements, and atthat time the chemicals weren't
used as much, although DDT wasin fact used by at that time.

(11:54):
But all the other chemicalsthat we're using now, those are
developed, you know, you know inthe last what, 50 years,
something like that, but in thatperiod it was really.
This is a few, but I'm notsaying there weren't dangers,
but there weren't so manyBecause we used to.
We used to thin and weed.
Now there's chemicals to send,you know, to get rid of the

(12:14):
weeds, right.
So, you don't have thinning andweeding crews anymore, as much
anymore.
So there's all kinds ofchemicals that were built, that
were put together to take careof some of the worker issues,
right, and that way the growerscould get rid of the workers,
because they never want a worker, they want, you know, things to
be done, but they don't wantthe business of a human being

(12:37):
saying, hey, we need some water,hey, we need a toilet.
They want to get away from allthat.
So they had the best next thing, which was a worker who never
said anything right, and thatwas who we were.
And so when I startedorganizing finally, after a long
period of time, of course, in1960, 65, when the great strike

(13:02):
started and the great boycottwent all across the country,
they only began to think well,heck, you mean, you mean,
workers could do something inthe fields.
And so we began to.
We began, we as workers, beganto open up our eyes.
By that time, of course, I wasnot working in the fields
anymore.
I was.
I graduated from high school, Ihad a job, but, you know,
nevertheless I was veryinterested in what happened to

(13:26):
farm workers.
And so we began to think whatyou mean?
People can ask for something.
Can we ask for a wage?
What?
And that's the same thing thatI found in the Valley when I
started organizing when Istarted in the house meetings in
1978, was that workers had nosense that they could ask for

(13:46):
anything.
The first meeting that I had inone of the colonias there, I
asked the question what are yourproblems in the fields?
And one of the workers said hey, rebecca, we don't have any
problems.
And I thought and I was likefloor does it?
And the response that responseis because people, people

(14:10):
thought that that was their viewright, this is our life and
that we have to do what we canwith it.
And so then I said but thenwhat about this?
What about your wages?
Oh yeah, they steal our wages.
And what about your socialsecurity?
Oh yeah, the crew leaderpockets the social security.
And so it was only when webegan to talk about specifics.

(14:31):
They knew it all right, butthey just thought they had a
hunker down and just accept itall.
And that pretty much was howeverybody was, including my
family and I.
We say well, you know, that'sthe way life is Drive.
You know when we used tomigrate?
When we migrated, we drivehundreds of miles.
And we thought, well, it's partof the job, but it isn't part

(14:54):
of the job, right, because it'syour car, it's your gas and we
were never reimbursed for allthat.
We just had to appear on workday and get to work, right.
Have your stuff with you.
We used to pick cotton in theMathis area which is what 100
miles from here and we had totake our cotton sacks and just

(15:17):
get in there, just work.
The grower, the crew leader Idon't know who really dad would
deal with that is give us ahouse to live in.
It was off.
It was a terrible house.
We had a big hole in theceiling and no water no running
water.
We had to speak it outside.
No kitchen, no, nothing.
We just had to sleep there.

(15:37):
Isn't that something?
We were providing work, we wereproviding their labor and we
were little.
That was when I was.
That was in 52, so I was nine,going on 10, 52 and 53.
I was 10 years old and workinghauling cotton.

Speaker 3 (15:56):
It's hard for me not to get a little bit emotional
about when to hear you talkabout this.
My father was born in 1954 inMichoacán, mexico, and they
eventually ended up in Tijuana,where he crossed over by himself
and he's a teenager, maybe 12or something like that and he
started working the fields andfollowed the work up to

(16:18):
Washington, stayed in back andeventually he had connections to
Texas, where he moved, and sohe was no longer a farm worker
here in Texas, he worked in thecity, had city jobs.
Everybody loved him herebecause he was from California
right before the Cesar Chavezstuff started happening.
So they were like, oh,california, and he had the style

(16:43):
and stuff like that.
But San Antonio treated himreally well, but the ideas,
though, when it comes to labor,stuck with him, not asking for
what he's deserving of and thatsort of a thing still to this
day.
And but yeah, he grew up likethat, like be happy with what

(17:04):
you have, and they were hardworkers.
They had a ranch in Mexico andthat eventually got taken from
them, but yeah, so I feel sohonored to hear you talk about
these things.
And then children, children, youknow, that's what.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
I was thinking of, but made me wonder if the
conditions are still like thatright.

Speaker 4 (17:27):
Yeah, there is, unless you have a union contract
, and those you know.
It's very, very hard to getunions contracts because you're
fighting the industry, right,and for farm.
And when you look at Starbucks,right, you have all these
hipsters and they're all collegeeducated and everything going
after Starbucks and they'rehaving a hard time, right,
because they get fired.

(17:47):
If you know whatever for anyreason whatsoever, right, you'll
get ousted and then you have todeal with that as an individual
and these are young folks.
But when you look at farm work,many times you have no options
because you don't have theeducation.
Generally, by and large, youdon't have an education.

(18:10):
You can say, well, I can leavethis field and go get me a job
somewhere else, I can be anITech or techie, because you
have no options.
So you have to stick it out.
You say, well, I, either, youknow, bend over and just take it
and keep working, or tomorrow Idon't have food for my family
and that's always been the.
That's always a struggle.

(18:30):
Is that, do I do this and do Irisk so?
When Cesar pulled off the unionstrike, one of the things that
he had to do is train people tounderstand that, that they had
to save their money.
If we're gonna do this,whatever money you have, you
better save it, because yougotta pay your rent, you gotta

(18:52):
buy your grocery, that kind ofstuff.
But then he had to go aroundthe country and ask for support
from different unions and theunions across this country,
especially the UAW in Detroit,and right now of course they're
in a big strike too.
They supported the union youknow from the very get-go.
It was Walter Ruther and hisbrother.

(19:13):
I can't remember his name, butthey were fantastic.
You know, I think they werecommunists, but generally labor
came out of the communist party,but they were always so
supportive of the farm workersand they gave Cesar a lot of
money to support them when theywere in that strike.
And so you always have to thinkof that.

(19:35):
As an individual family youhave to think about it, and it's
always scary.
But scarier for those folks whohave no options, who can't say
well, I'll go on a strike.
Let's say, the mother says I'llgo on the strike but you,
husband, are gonna have to goand find yourself a job
somewhere else so you cancontinue to support me.

(19:56):
It just doesn't work that waywith farm worker families, so
that is a big problem withmaintaining income inside the
family.

Speaker 2 (20:03):
I think I remember reading that about Emma Tenayuka
organizing here in San Antonioto the pecan shellers.
Is that that was part of it?
That's what she was doing washelping everybody take care of
each other's child care, gettingthe funds for rent and stuff
all of that.
Yeah, I come from a family ofunion workers.

(20:24):
Like my dad was a painter andhis dad was a carpenter, my
other grandpa's was a mailmanunion and then my great grandpa
was an electrician.
In the 1920s when they werefighting for unions and so I
remember my grandma saying thatwhen she was a kid he had to
carry a gun around with himbecause the cops were after him,

(20:45):
because the government was onthe big boss's side, but there
just seems to be such adifference still that farm
workers is still the mostintense organizing because they
didn't have that.
They still I don't know therewas more privilege.
Basically is what it comes downto.

(21:09):
That was white peopleorganizing unions, whereas farm
workers tend to be indigenous.
And I remember driving downfrom Portland Oregon back here
to San Antonio and stopping inall these small towns and making
note of that, that every singleone of these small towns, which
are like farm towns, usuallyhad a brown population or a

(21:29):
Hispanic population.
I was like those are the farmworkers.
And I remember when I wasresearching the Irish, when
there was a basic genocideattempt against them and what it
came from was the Englishtaking all their land and then
making them rent in order tofarm off of.
And it made me think about howindigenous people here knew this

(21:55):
land just like the Irish knewtheir land, knew how to farm it,
and that to this day we haveindigenous populations still
farming the land for us.
On the way I grew up and Philly, I didn't realize food actually
grew from trees.
It was just like we just boughtthe produce from the grocery

(22:18):
store, so that when I actuallywent to my ex-husband's house
and she picked me figs off ofits tree.
It was the first time I everhad fresh food or even saw food
come out of the ground, and soit just all comes together for
me.
And that there's notappreciation for where our food

(22:38):
comes, there's not therecognition that it's like still
an indigenous Americans stillfarming all of our food and
we're still not giving them allof the rights necessary.

Speaker 4 (22:52):
I think that you hit upon the comparison between the
Irish and the Mexicans here isthe same right, because pretty
much what happened you know,this is part of Mexico, right,
and Mexicans own this place andwe worked it and all of that.
So when the Anglos came in tosettle and to take over this
state with Austin Stephen FAustin what they did is really

(23:18):
just displaced all the peoplewho were living here for forever
before right, displaced them,took their land, and those same
folks that used to work thoselands were now working on them
rather than owning them.
So they became workers and notowners of those fields, and so
it created the migrantpopulation because then they

(23:41):
couldn't live off of that work,right?
So they had to go and then go tonext door to this other
growers' land and then go hereto kind of eke out a living year
round, and so that's prettymuch what happens now we were
talking about.
The whole issue of what yousaid is that people don't know
where things come from, whereour food comes from.

(24:01):
They used to call, and theyprobably still do, farm workers'
hands, right, Just hands, Likethere's not a human being
attached to it, just hands,Because that's all they want.
It's just a hand, right, Justget there and harvest and don't

(24:22):
do anything else.
And so when I know because thisis how it was in the valley we
had thousands of farm workersliving there, thousands of farm
workers living there, and theywould take care of all of that
agriculture.
But they did not have the skillthat a farmer has in knowing

(24:45):
when to plant.
I think many of them do.
I'm not gonna say they're allthat way.
When to plant, what to plant,what to plant next to it,
Because that has been erasedfrom our memory, right?
It's, when you plant something,what do you plant next to it?
So you take care of the bugs,right?
So we lost all that knowledgeand we've gotta regain it.

(25:06):
We've gotta regain it and ofcourse, all we have now are
little lots here in the city.
But we can regain it.
We've got to start learningOnce again the whole process of
growing our own food and how touse the old ways in making this
production work for us, Becausewe are in fact losing that

(25:28):
ability and, frankly, if you goto the grocery store right now,
it's pricing us out of goodnutrition and all of that money
goes into the hands ofcorporations, big agricultural
corporations.
They're not.
Everyone assumes that these aresmall family farms.
They're not.
The small family farmer haslost his farm or her farm.

(25:52):
We did.
We had 40 acres in AtluscosaCounty.
We lost it.
We lost it because ofconditions or weather conditions
.
We couldn't hold it anymore andso we lost our farm, and so
that's what happened to a lot offarmers.
If you go to Atluscosa Countynow, it used to be pretty much
owned by Mexicans.
A lot of them my family, mycousins they're pretty much

(26:14):
owned by big corporations now.

Speaker 2 (26:16):
I mean Bill Gates owns most of the farmland in the
country.

Speaker 4 (26:21):
Oh God, and all you see now is grass.
You know they'll have some cowsand they'll have some grass to
feed them, but they don't havethe real crops.

Speaker 3 (26:31):
Right, they have these small farms with actually
growing food, and now it's morecows, cows, beef, beef.

Speaker 4 (26:39):
And then the grass to feed them and a huge, huge
acreage.
But we used to have small farms.
My dad had 40 acres and thepeople across the road had a few
acres and we could see, we grewthe strawberries, we grew the
tomatoes, we grew the watermelon, that kind of stuff, and so we

(27:02):
had our family and then mycousins had theirs, and we would
go from our family to theirfamily and we would work with
them, so we would lend our helpto all of our relatives so that
they could get their stuff tomarket too.
And that's how we handled it.
I don't think there was anymoney across Palms there,
because I don't think so, but Idon't know.

(27:22):
But that's how we managed.
And we managed to live off ofthat because in the I was born
in 43.
That time there was no publicassistance, none at all.
So you really had to make surethat you, what you grew, you ate
and made a little bit of moneyto buy your other essentials.

(27:42):
But you didn't have that muchof an overhead at all.
You didn't have the, we didn'thave electricity, we didn't have
gas.
We had a car, a tractor, thewater was a pump.
So we had basic things that welived off of.
Now, of course, you can't doany of that anymore.

(28:05):
None of it.
You could try.
People who are homeless try,but they can't because they
can't get the food anywhere.
But the water, they have to buythe water, so you really can't
anymore.
And in organizing, is it truey'all really stuck to like, I

(28:27):
guess, like paying yourselves ahumble wage, I guess I would say
yeah, it's true, it is absolutetruth, and that was, that was a
philosophy Cesar had, and heintegrated it into the union
that we would.
In the beginning, you paid $5 aweek, and, and, and, and.
You know, I agree that wecouldn't live off of $5 a week,

(28:48):
but we made do with it and so,and and it was, it was making
sure that we had that.
We, for example, even to thisday, I never buy anything new, I
don't buy.
I eat simple foods.
I don't buy.
You know, I really don't buymeat or anything like that.
So we learned how to eat andlive simply rather than
extravagantly.

(29:08):
And what he said is that is itwas really true.
He says, if you have money inyour pocket, you get a lot of
money.
Then you're out consuming,you're out to the mall, you're
out buying things and stuff likethat.
I mean, you don't have money,you don't think about doing that
, and that is.
That is the absolute truth.
Ariadis, that is the absolutetruth.
Yeah, and I, I follow that.
You know I spend money now, ofcourse, you know now I'm 80, so

(29:30):
I figure I can spend a littlebit.
But but during the period thatI worked in South Texas it was a
steer I did have.
I was married at that time andhe was working with the ACLU and
so he got some income and so wemanaged that way.
But I didn't get paid for thework that I did and I worked all
the time and I had babiesduring that time too, and so I

(29:55):
had house meetings every night.
I hauled my little kids aroundwith me, and of course, that
also was a was a good thing todo, not only for my children,
but also it was it came out to,to be an example of modeling for
the women, the farm workers, tothem saying you know what we

(30:15):
can, we can all do this.
And look at me, I have allthese kids and I'm you know, I'm
working, I'm doing this andit's a, it's a dignified
campaign kind of work that we dobecause families are involved
and and as long as as wemaintain that respect, because

(30:35):
research is so important and youhave to respect the families
that you go and visit, then thenyou begin to establish a
foundation of respect anddignity and the union, and then
and then say that you merit thatrespect and dignity from
everybody else.

Speaker 3 (30:54):
Do you attend house meetings now with any
organization or any group?

Speaker 4 (30:58):
I don't frankly think there's any organization in San
Antonio that's doing housemeetings.

Speaker 3 (31:04):
I attended some with a group called COPS Metro.
I'm no longer with them butthat was with the UU church but
I can see in practice how youknow that creates that covenant
or relational connection withpeople and where you get like

(31:27):
boots on the ground kind ofconversations about what is,
what are the problems, what arethe issues.

Speaker 4 (31:33):
And you know the more , the more I think about it is
that organizations are so vitalfor all of us.
Right, is, how do you, how doyou come to grips with something
that's going on in this country?
Right, the only way to do thatis if you talk it over with
people you know and you and youand you and you come to kind of
a knowledge about what you know.
How is this?
Whatever?
Whatever it is right.

(31:53):
How is this affecting us meindividually, with us as a, as a
community?
Because if you sit aroundthinking on on your own, you may
come, you know off with atotally different perspective.
And so I believe inorganizations.
I, I absolutely do, but I thinkthe conversation starts on
one-on-one or in a small groupso that you can start batting,

(32:15):
batting about ideas.
I, I really think that that weneed to have organizations that
do house meetings, and I thinkwe got.
We got to differentiate betweena house meeting or organization
and organizing, grassrootsorganizing and events.
Events are different.
I think events are part of oforganizing, right, for example,

(32:37):
once we had a foundation offolks who are in the union and
who believed in the issues andstuff, then we would have events
.
It would have marches, right,and so these would be the, the,
the people who would do that,right.
They say, okay, it's time to,it's time to, you know, say
something about whatever's goingon.
They would have marches.
And so those groups that justhave events for event sake don't

(32:58):
do that groundwork and maybethey can from the people who
come to the event, right, maybethey can do that kind of follow
up, but I don't think that thereis some.
Frankly, I don't think there'smoney dedicated to that kind of
work, because it is long-termwork.

Speaker 3 (33:14):
It is long-term work.

Speaker 4 (33:16):
I don't think there.
I don't.
I don't.
When I look at organizations,their budgets, I don't think
they include that in in theirtheir total plans to get to
their event.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
I'm glad that you have faith in organizations,
because mine has like plummeteda lot over the years, over the
past few years, and I reallyappreciate that distinction
because I was going to ask that.
I was like how do you maintainan organization without all of
the problems that seem toinevitably come up of, like the

(33:50):
hierarchy of power, and thenjust maintaining that power
without doing all of thatgroundwork?
And that seems to be it.
I was wondering didn't you haveneighborhood meetings for your
neighbors at one point,regarding the gentrification,
Well.

Speaker 4 (34:07):
Well, we never got to the neighborhood this, this is
during the pandemic and peopledidn't want to get out.
But I did one-on-ones with my,with my neighbors, and we did
have like a little gatheringonce in our neighborhood where
we had a large number of folkscome out, but it was about
gentrification, it was only onthat idea.
But then the pandemic hit andwe just kind of like everybody

(34:30):
was afraid of coming out and andso so we didn't continue at any
point.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:36):
This was actually one of my favorite stories to show
how ridiculous gentrification isin the city, but we did like a
what was that for for everyonehome.
There was a project going herein the city of San Antonio where
they were trying to figure outsolutions to displacement.
Really, I think their goal wasto just bring community land

(34:57):
trust, which is a good idea, butI think that was this
organization's intention.
But anyway, they organized thisevent where they brought a bus
of people from different cities,a bunch of our city workers,
around the South side to seewhat displacement looks like,
and there was an event at RinRebecca's neighborhood and wall.
Do you want to tell us?

Speaker 4 (35:19):
Well, I may, I may forget some, so please jump in.
So this is what happened.
So we had this huge, I wouldsay we had about 20 people,
right, there's a lot, and in thefront yard, there it was.
It was at a house that was nextto the, the San Pedro Creek,
which is being, you know, fixedso that we're being gentrified,
anyway.

(35:39):
So there we were, we had allthese people, we had taken all
of the postcards that we'dreceived from people who want to
buy our property and we'd hungthem in a clothesline and we
just it was, it was like it wasa long line of postcards that
were we stuck up there with,with some clips, and so we were
waiting and waiting and waiting,and the bus was late, right,
and so finally the bus comes and, you know, stinky diesel diesel

(36:03):
bus, parks itself right infront of us, like that, and it
never turns off, right, he justkept spinning out this hot air
and fumes and all of that stuff,and so we want, we thought that
Aero was going to get off andwe could talk, right, and they
chose not to Nobody, nobodywanted to get off and finally,

(36:25):
and that was when Vero Vero waswas chair of the.
I was director of the of thehousing here in San Antonio and
she wouldn't get off either.
And we said but what?
What is the?
What is the point of all this?
Here, we here, we want to talk,and we're ready, and we want to
talk, and nobody would get offthe bus.
And that was the weirdest eventthat I have ever, ever been

(36:47):
part of.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
It was so indicative of what they really think
Exactly.

Speaker 4 (36:52):
They were sitting on the bus.
They wouldn't get off the bus,right Like nice little show.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
See all these cute people out here.
But no, right before, beforethe bus even came, remember some
guy oh that one.
Some white guy pulls up in acar and he's like hey, I wasn't
there, you guys said hey, can webuy your house?

Speaker 4 (37:10):
Yes, yes, and he was parked over there and he'd been
watching us for a while.
We said I don't know who thatguy is.
And so he drives up and he saysso we?
He says what are y'all doing?
I said, well, you know, we'rebeing gentrified and we're
having whatever you know.
I explained what we were doingthere and he says hey, I want to
buy your house.
He was a gentrifier.

(37:32):
Hello, he never, he never gotthe message.
The message wasn't clear.
I guess that we were protestinggentrification and he was a
gentrifier.

Speaker 3 (37:42):
Oh, and you know, I have to say, you know there are
solutions, you know there aresolutions and frameworks and
that are there.
Like my father was able to havehis house flipped through the
city program calledowner-occupied rehab.
But because you know, like inhis neighborhood you have all

(38:06):
these elders who have paid offtheir mortgages, they've kept
their humble jobs, they've, butyou know the their wages have
remained the same, despiteeverything else going up over
the years.
You don't have the kind ofmoney to do your foundation,

(38:27):
replace the plumbing, replacethe electrical work.
A lot of these homes are builtin the 20s and teens, right, and
so they find their elders nowin these houses that are falling
apart.
So then they give in when theycome and ask and make these
offers.
And so my dad, I would advocatefor him go down into the office

(38:51):
, the city office, and they saythat it's a lottery system and
these opportunities because it'sa forgivable loan.
It's a forgivable loan.
They flipped his house.
They redid the foundation, theroofing, the electrical, the
plumbing.
This was pre, but right beforewe had that snowstorm a couple
of years ago, we were so luckythat our pipes did not bust open

(39:13):
.
Like a lot of our neighbors.
They didn't go through what we.
You know, we had brand newinsulation, so, as much as it
sucked, we were able to getthrough it without severe
consequences.
And so to me, like that's ananswer, it just needs it has a
tiny little budget where theytell us oh, it's a lottery

(39:35):
system, these people are sodeserving more of a lottery
system we need to secure.
Stop giving the developersincentives and using money for
that and just put all that moneyinto.
I mean, that's one way to fightgentrification, I think.
And houselessness, andhouselessness.
You know, in fact, the guyacross the street ended up

(39:56):
selling his house and his sonbecame houseless after he sold.
And it's a developer who livesthere now and he can't sell his
house because he flipped it sofancy that nobody wants to pay
what it's actually worth now,you know, because they don't
want to live next door to us,but you know.
So, yeah, there's answers.

(40:19):
You know there's a solution.
We can totally combat this.
It's greed, you know it's greed.

Speaker 2 (40:27):
It's government funded.
This is what Rebecca and I arepresenting at the Health Equity
Forum.

Speaker 3 (40:34):
Nice, which I'm registered to attend.
Yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 2 (40:38):
And that's what we were talking about last week is
how gentrification is governmentfunded in overinflation of land
?

Speaker 4 (40:47):
And developed by the government.
We can go back to the decade ofthe downtown.
Remember that one that was 2010, right.

Speaker 3 (40:56):
Right Julian Castro.

Speaker 4 (40:58):
And where his idea was well, we need to revive the
downtown area, and withoutthinking of the collateral
damage.
Right, same thing with Sarah,the San Antonio River Authority.
They did all that creekdevelopment without thinking of
the collateral damage.
And so all this money and it isgenerally our money- our
taxpayer money.
There's some other money, butit's probably developer money

(41:18):
because their interest is there.
And so nobody looks at thecollateral damage to those kinds
of projects and say, well, youknow, that's pretty much what
happened with the Sino'semission trails.
Right Is that they fix theriver.
It was gorgeous.
And then the owners of thismobile home park that was a home

(41:40):
for over 100 families in mobilehomes sold it and he said you
got to get out, I'll give you aperiod of time to get out.
And now they have thishumongous, horrible looking, I
think, castle there right on theriver and just peering over the
river.
And so they had primo land.

(42:02):
And that's what they do.
Right Is they hold on, hold on,hold on to the property until
it gets, you know, and don't doanything to upkeep, you know
right, until it gets.
Investor, you know interest,they sell it and make money and
then they build their beautiful,their beautiful.
I've always said why can't poorpeople be next to beautiful

(42:22):
things?
That's what I always say.
Why can't I be next to abeautiful river?

Speaker 2 (42:26):
That's how I thought about the San Pedro Creek
renovation and living atSoapworks.
And you know who ownedSoapworks and Town Center before
that was Lifshits of Polestar.
So, yeah, he let it just go tonothing.
And then he sold it to thisinvestor in Houston who you know

(42:48):
kind of renovated.
He was trying to increase theland value or property value,
right, so that he could sell itfor more eventually.
To now Western urban justbought it and so, yeah, it's
like they were just waiting for,they're just waiting for this
business district vision thatthey have of that part of
downtown to happen.
And meanwhile that was the last381 naturally affordable

(43:12):
working class apartmentsdowntown and everybody just
displaced from it.

Speaker 4 (43:16):
And at the same time and even though I know the mayor
and the city council hate tohave people say this this is
considered a low wage town.
There was just a statistic, didyou see that?
And this last week that showsthat San Antonio increased the
number of poor people in thispopulation increased rather than
decreased.
And so when they say, oh no,we're not a low wage town, don't

(43:40):
say that.
But San Antonio likes thatdefinition because they lower in
the tourist industry.
Tourist industry is nothing butcheaply paid wages.
It's the restaurant industry,it's a hotel industry and they
make boo-koo money.
They make so much money withpeople coming in and renting and
yet they don't pay theirworkers a decent salary.

(44:01):
And those workers then can'tlive nearby.
They have to live way out andcome in on the buses to work
here because there is noaffordable apartments in this
downtown area.
And so then the developer.
I have a thing about that,because the developers come in.
It was a law passed by adeveloper at the state level

(44:24):
Plummer.
Jim Plummer is the attorney fordevelopers.
He passed a law that allowsproperty tax exemptions to
developers if they include inall the total units a certain
amount of what's consideredaffordable units but they never
define affordable and they neverdefine the size of the unit and

(44:46):
it's really not affordable forpeople, for poor families to
live in.
It's just not affordable to them.
You have to earn what?
Three times your rental.
So if your rent is $800, youhave to earn three times that a
month to be able to.
But you know, when you rent aplace I guess this is still true

(45:09):
you have to pay the monthlyrent, then you have to pay two,
I think the one before and thenthe deposit.
So you have to pay three monthsof rent.
Do people have that amount ofmoney in their pocket?
No, they don't.
People live paycheck topaycheck anymore.
So, and we're not even talkingabout people who are disabled,

(45:32):
who are not able to work, whohave issues, or elderly.
Let's talk about elderly whoare like you said, who are
unfixed income maybe, and youknow that Social Security and
SSI, of which are SSI, goes liketo $800, $900 a month.

(45:53):
That's if you don't qualify forSocial Security.
Social Security can go anywhere, right, it can start low and it
can go high.
But if you've been a low wageworker all your life, you're
going to get a low monthly checkfrom Social Security.
And so there's just, you cannotget out of your holes.
You cannot get out of yourholes.
And then, of course, medicalcare, food, everything else.

(46:14):
It's just difficult for peoplewho are poor to make it in this
country anymore, in this town,probably anywhere in this
country anymore Difficult.
And I hate to sound that way,because certainly there's got to
be a light out there, but Idon't see one.
All the city programs and stuffare so inaccessible.

Speaker 3 (46:35):
They're so inaccessible and a lot of them
are just plain performative.
So I participated in anothercity program.
I think it was ready to work Icould be wrong because there's
similar ones, I think but I dida certification.
They paid us $15 an hour asstudents, I think.

(46:55):
Maybe it was like six months ofschool, and then I did my
clinicals at Methodist Hospitalwhere I was eventually hired,
but I was being paid $12.50 anhour, less than the student.
$15 is low already.
I hate to be a complainer orwhatever, but realistically that

(47:15):
still wouldn't have been enoughto live off of.
It's not a living wage, and so$12 was even.
And then made me think whatkind of unions do we have going
on in the hospitals, because Iwould hear so much injustice
sort of going on there.
So yeah, so unfortunately, alot of these city efforts can be

(47:38):
performative too.

Speaker 4 (47:40):
Absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker 3 (47:43):
They lay out all the Right, all the amount of money
going out in the marketing forit.

Speaker 4 (47:48):
This is all that's available and yet how do you get
it?
How do you access it?
I was at a meeting with theDepartment of Labor Women's
Bureau woman and she invited anumber of people and I was a
community person.
I was the only one communityperson and Juanita Reina from
Forza Unida, she was the othercommunity person, but she had an

(48:09):
organization.
I came in, you know, bald, Ididn't have any organization,
and so everybody's talking abouthow great their group was and
what they did and how successfulthey were, and then, of course,
I just threw hot water on herand I thought, but, but, but,

(48:29):
but, as you can talk about thatall the time, but you really
don't reach those folks who are,in fact, needing everything
you're pushing.
And that's why we continue tobe able to reach talent, because
you don't reach that population.
And they have fantastic data.
They have fantastic data.

(48:50):
Yeah, and it just, and so anyway, let me just say this because I
think it's also I like yourword performative.
So when I said you know, talkedabout people who are, who are
ignored and who are not part ofthe part of their programs, I

(49:12):
was the last one to talk beforethey talk some more and they
changed their language.
But I don't know what that means, right, it's just performative,
right?
So then they said, yes, and weneed to, you know, get out, and
we had need to, you know, getinto those communities that are.
I said it, just just look atthe demographic.
If all you do is look look atthe poor people, poor people

(49:34):
live just go there, knock ondoors, knock on doors and say
you know how, what's going on?
Why can't you get in work,ready to work and that was, that
was a discussion ready to workat that thing?
Why is it?
Why is it not up to optimum,like they originally planned,
right?
Well, there's all kinds ofreasons for it.

Speaker 3 (49:53):
And there are a whole bunch of hiccups going through
the program and so you fix it,right, you fix it, but how do
you fix it?

Speaker 4 (49:58):
Will you find out what the hiccups are?
And and until you talk to folks, on the ground yeah, on the
ground, then you're never goingto find out.
And so so I sometimes, you know, sometimes I think, and I'm,
you know, I'm not that, what'sthe word?
I'm not that popular, I'm not,you know, when a lot of people

(50:21):
want Cool.

Speaker 2 (50:22):
Cool, they said your name in a song at a concert.

Speaker 3 (50:27):
Oh yeah, that's true.
That's some clout right there.

Speaker 4 (50:29):
Listen to me In terms of people don't want my, my, my
, my, my opinions.
I mean they will listen to thembecause I think they this whole
thing about communityengagement and and all that.
It's like a coin.
It's like a coined word.

Speaker 3 (50:43):
now Okay we have to have.

Speaker 4 (50:44):
Rebecca Flores come in and talk and scream at us and
that's it.
And we'll ignore her, you know,until the next event.
And that's that's what I that'swhy, and that's why I kind of
hesitate in participating in alot of these things, because
what am I?
A show?
Are we shows?
Are we, are we shows?
Is that what we're used for?
And some folks says, well,rebecca, if you don't say it,

(51:06):
nobody else is going to say it.
And I thought, well, you knowwhat?
I don't know, I saw, anyway,I'm up in the air about it, I
really am.
I think it's some use, use forme saying these things.
But if all they can say is, yes, we're going to, we're going to
, you know, get the marginalizedincluded and figure that out,
but if that's all they do ischange our language, then you
know what's, what's the point ofit all.
But this has been the life,this has been my life.

(51:28):
Right, I've been screamingabout this forever, forever.
I mean, it's started with farmworkers, but but man, it's hard
to it's hard to change thesesystems because people want to
cream, they want to get thecream of the crop and they don't
want to have any trouble.
You know, and those are yourgood statistics, right, yeah,
she's.

(51:49):
You know she's got her GED.
She comes to work and shedoesn't have babies, and you
know she gets on the bus easy.
What about all those othersthat don't have it?
They don't have the GED, theyhave a bunch of babies.
They can't manage the bus.
You know what happened to themand why aren't they included in
another way?
So, and that's here, that'shere in San Antonio.
I know some of them that can'tdo it, and yet they need it, and

(52:12):
yet they need it.
So I don't know what the answeris.
But going back to organizationand you know there are
organizations and there's the501c3s need to have a different
concept of what they could bedoing.
It's not just.

(52:33):
They've got to start thinkingoutside their money system right
, I was given money to do this.
Let me just do this.
They've got to expand theirvision and start really
developing organization forthose issues that they are
dealing with right that they'reand develop a good organization,
develop a, you know, acommunity organization.

(52:55):
That's the only way we're goingto change things.
That is the only way we'regoing to change things if people
are able to speak up from theirtruth, from their experience,
and hopefully people will listento them.

Speaker 2 (53:07):
Hopefully, because it's just like those 501c3s.
And this is that's a good point, because I was just thinking
about our presentation on Fridayand how we came up with the
solution of democraticparticipation, participatory
practices, which is like there'slike academic research behind
this and like that's the bestway to present it to the crowd

(53:29):
at this Health Equity Forum, butultimately they just it becomes
performative.
Now we're just giving them thelanguage and the information so
that they can go out and say allof these things.
And so I was thinking how oneof the things that we can stress
a lot is that none of thismeans anything without action,
because that's also part ofparticipatory action, research,

(53:52):
and if you're not doing theactive part of it and then
reflecting on it and then actingagain, then it's just
performative.
And then I'm glad that youbrought up the 501c3s, all the
non-profits, because that's awhole other, whole other issue
about how they take up spacespeaking for people, and really

(54:12):
they need to be the ones who arejust sort of acting as legisans
, of like how do we give morepower to these people?
But yeah, they're so caught upin.
For me it really comes down towhat I've witnessed is
individual power struggles,where they want to be the ones

(54:32):
who get a program approved bythe city and they can put that
on their grant proposals andthen they can put that on their
resume for their next job,because they don't even like
their job at non-profits,usually, often, often.
And so, yeah, these are justsome of the solutions I'm
brainstorming and also things tosay, right, because I feel that

(54:52):
way too.
I mean, yeah, I'm not populareither.

Speaker 3 (54:56):
Really Whoops.
We're the outliers.
Here Are you.

Speaker 2 (55:02):
That's why I'm cracking up when me and Rebecca
talk together on Friday.
I'm like how did this?

Speaker 3 (55:07):
work.
How did?

Speaker 2 (55:07):
we come together.
How did who approved of this?
Glad they did, but then I'malso nervous that they did,
because I'm like we are not justlike community tokens here to
just say, hey, you guys have toalso listen to community.
It's like actually go and do itLike, what do we have to do?

(55:28):
Get our like mean mom hats on.

Speaker 3 (55:31):
Like grandma's right.

Speaker 2 (55:32):
Disciplinary actions to yeah, get them to actually
start doing it.
It's really frustrating.

Speaker 4 (55:43):
Oh, it is.

Speaker 2 (55:44):
And I don't know, I don't know the answer.

Speaker 4 (55:46):
I don't know the answer it's gotta be ground up
is the only answer.
And then the issue, then, ishow do you get that platform for
the ground up?
You know, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (55:58):
I feel like history has a lot to do with it in
education.
Knowing your history might beone part of where action comes
from, because then you get soangry when you know the history
of how long this has beenhappening.
My mother was displaced fromhemisphere.

(56:20):
Their house was raised in 68.
And beyond my mom and hergrandfather, who owned the house
we also had I mean, they hadhouses in King Williams.
They owned properties you know,all scattered throughout South
Town and downtown, and nownobody owns any of that.
Now nobody owns any of thatproperty.

Speaker 4 (56:40):
The Westin Urban owns it.
Right, he owns.
He's doing the hemisphere hotelor whatever.

Speaker 3 (56:47):
And also when we're talking about developers too.
In 68, it was HB Zachary whogot that contract, and they have
it again.
So you know it's the same place, it's the same place, it's the
same place and we are all thesame families doing all this
together.
It's throughout the generationsit's the same things happening,

(57:08):
you know, but this is all of usdoing, we're all in this
together, and so the more peopleknow the history, I think,
hopefully, especially withthings like some media and being
able to share knowledge, youknow, without having to, because
they're not teaching this inschool.
I didn't learn about you inschool, you know.

(57:29):
I didn't learn about EmmaTeneyuka at school, you know so,
and that leads me to adifferent, if it's okay,
question I just wanted to get Iguess you're quick I if you have
any knowledge of the TexasRangers?
Oh, absolutely.
Because that's been my.

(57:49):
That was an eye-opening thingfor me.
And there's talk about, likeour monuments and what statues
should stay and are we erasinghistory and that sort of thing.
So you know, the Confederatestatue downtown they got, they
got rid of, that was on TravisPark, but we still have
Confederate statues.
Frost Colonel Thomas Frost, wasa Confederate soldier and he

(58:12):
still.
That still remains there andthe legacy of Frost is still
continues and the narration, thenarrative about him, you know,
it's still sort of like a heroin that sort of thing.
When I read everything thatthey put out about him, when I
read his history it's, I don'tsee that, I don't.
You know he started hisbusiness from a monopoly of wool

(58:36):
and so when I look up thedefinition for monopoly, it's
not a good thing, it's not anhonorable thing.
So I guess I just wanted to askyou what your knowledge is
about the Texas Rangers.
Also, in some indigenous groups, you know, you'll see them
acknowledging.
You know indigenous people thatwere Texas Rangers themselves.

(58:58):
But to me it's like, does thatmake it any better, like you
know?

Speaker 4 (59:05):
so yeah, well, the Rangers were set up before the
Republic, which was 1836.
So they were, and they weresupposed to, you know, control
on Indians that were living here, because the Indians were
attacking the colonists.

Speaker 3 (59:22):
Yeah, that's how frost started.

Speaker 4 (59:23):
It wasn't.

Speaker 3 (59:24):
It was before the Rangers, but he already had his
little.

Speaker 4 (59:27):
And then they continued and there was a lot of
Mexicans who were Rangers alsoafter the, after 1836, because
that was that was part of, youknow, controlling and and the
solidifying the Republic.
And then, of course, then weknow all the stuff written,
because it's not, it's not inbooks, right, people have had to

(59:48):
scrounge around in newspaper,old newspapers to find, and then
what oral history has been, hasbeen passed from family to
family, you know from generationto generation, and how it's
been collected, and there arenot.
There aren't awesome books.
You know about fa written byfamilies who know the history of
their relatives being shot andkilled by Rangers, just because,

(01:00:12):
right, and really a lot of itwas to scare them, scare them
off their property, and that wasreally what the whole thing was
is scare you off your propertyand my, I have.
I have never had my personalexperience with the Rangers.
Okay, I have, I have with a DPS.
I've been throwing in jail afew times, but that's another

(01:00:33):
story.
But with the Rangers was the.
The most recent one was was inthe 1966 farm worker strike in
Star County, and that was astrike that was.
That was huge, with people whowere harvesting melons in the
summer of 1966.
And so so they had beenorganizing the, the workers

(01:00:58):
there in Star County, and thenthey called June the 1st would
be the first day of the strike,when everybody would not work,
and it was successful.
But also on June the 1st theRangers were there.
So the growers had called inthe Rangers.
But the Rangers are paid by us,right, they were, their
taxpayers supported, and yetthey were on the Rangers side,

(01:01:18):
right they were.
They were there, you know,toting their guns, protecting
the growers and protecting their, their produce, right, so that
the produce could get to market.
And so in the process, theywanted to bash and destroy the
union, the unionizing effort,and they did it by hitting
people, by throwing people injail.

(01:01:39):
They would throw people thefirst day.
They, they, they, they arrested.
Eugene Nelson, who was theorganizer, came out of
California.
They arrested him for trespass,for some you know cock-a-manie
reason, and they threw him injail.
And so that's a message, right,that is the message that
everybody learns.
Oh, look, they threw our leaderin jail.

(01:02:02):
And so, and they, they did that, they did that systematically
and they went after every leaderand they threw him in jail.
There was what I would say 70people thrown in jail from from
that organizing effort, and theywould stay in jail one day a
week or whatever.
They would stay in jail theywould be arrested for for

(01:02:24):
praying on the Cow CountyCourthouse steps, praying,
praying.
They would get arrested forsaying a cuss word.
It was just like for for anyfor any little reason.
And then, of course, forpicketing.
They had a picket line in frontof the of the shed and they
were arrested for that.
And so this went on for thecourse of the melon.

(01:02:46):
The melon season is shortbecause it's the melons grow and
then they're, then they're gone, so it's not longer than four
weeks, five weeks, and so theydid that for the duration of
that, and so so, anyway, thatended that year with a, with a
march that started in in Rio deJaneiro City and came up to
Austin.
So that was, that was the endof that strike.

(01:03:08):
Then it continued the next year,but the the history of the
Rangers was that after thathappened, there was some, there
was some attorneys who took this, who filed a lawsuit in the
federal courts against theRangers.
It was Medrano, pancho Medrano,who was a UAW member who had

(01:03:31):
been beat up by the Rangers,versus Captain Ali A-L-L-E-E.
He was a captain that was overthe Rangers there, and so this
lawsuit went to federal court,to the federal system, all the
way to the US Supreme Court andand this, the strikes happened
in 60 to 66.
In 1972, this is, you know, sixyears later the US Supreme

(01:03:56):
Court came down and said thatthe Rangers were used against
unconstitutionally, because wehave in the Constitution we have
a right to assemble, and that'spart of you know that we had a
right to assemble and and sothey they.
One of the things that theysaid is that from here on out,

(01:04:16):
the Rangers can never be used toto destroy a unionizing effort,
and so from that, from thatperiod on, the Rangers haven't
been used for that.
Before that, before that and Iprobably Emmat-Ten Yuka came up
against them, but I rememberreading for Yucca Pala, which
also was organizing in SouthTexas in the 30s and the 40s,

(01:04:37):
and Yucca Pala was was was notan AFL-CIO, it was another union
, and they started organizingthe cotton pickers in in
Harlingen and and they had, youknow, committees and they had an
office.
And then the Rangers see cottonalso is seasonal, right, and so
people leave, right, theymigrate and stuff, and so,

(01:04:59):
anyway, so they, the Rangers,came in and busted up that Union
and Yucca power then left, andand so that's what happens,
right Is that?
Is that when you do those kind,when they do those kinds of
things, people get scared andyou kind of have to get up and
leave.
In this instance, though, theworkers didn't get scared, but
the Union effort was it was dead.
Right, it was just too much forthose workers.

(01:05:21):
It was, it was too much, butthe Union stayed there.
So, from it from 1966 to now,the United Farmers have been in
the Valley.
So that's what 60 years, 60years, something like that, 60
years, and so it's transitioned.
I got there in 1975, becamedirector of Union from 70 to

(01:05:42):
2005, and In the process, though, if you know what's happened in
this country, nafta hit in the90s, and so, from one day to the
next, all the the growers wentto Mexico, and free trade for
the free, and so we lost a lotof the row crops and a lot of
the, a lot of the workers didn'thave work anymore and and so a

(01:06:05):
lot of the workers that weremembers of the Union, who were
the bulk of what, what we'rethere for right, weren't there
anymore.
And so we had a change andtransition into this group
called Lupe, la Union del puebloentero, which is a community
organization dedicated tocommunity development rather
than Farm worker, you know, farmworker issues, and so it's

(01:06:27):
different, but it's stillorganizing workers, people In
colonias, and so that's how wemanage.
We have had to transitionourselves right to best, as
things have changed.
Um, and you know, as you know,things change all the time.
But what I did notice a littlebit ago, I was down there and

(01:06:48):
it's very interesting.
So I hit us some fields, I hitup on some fields and stuff and
I I found a field that was thatwas growing, you know, that
curly cabbage, the curly leafcabbage.
Is it Chinese cabbage?
Well, anyway, it's a differentkind of cabbage that I don't eat
, right, and Leaks.

(01:07:10):
I hit on two fields that curlycabbage and leaks, neither of
which I eat.
So I'm thinking that these, youknow, central markets type
grocery stores are now wantingthese kind of Esoteric food that
they sell for a hundred dollars.
I mean this.
This man was working.

(01:07:30):
See if I can remember that mannever quit working.
He would pull the leaks out ofthe soil, peel him back, cut off
the greens, cut off the the,the strings here Entire.
He would tie three, threetogether and he would throw it

(01:07:51):
on the ground.
He just never.
He'd never quit, never quit,and he got, let's see, he got
just us.
So I can't remember the thefigures anymore, but it was like
, I believe, 12 bundles of threefor Some minimal amount.
I'm not gonna say it becauseI'm I may.

(01:08:12):
I may be wrong, but I went andlooked at the grocery store
there in the valley.
I just went to the grocerystore I said let me see what
those leaks are selling for.
And there was two leaks tiedtogether for something like
three dollars and 25 cents.
And so he wonder he wouldn'tearning that for?
For the.
Bunch that he had tied up In thevalley.

(01:08:34):
So so there's no transportation.
You know what I'm saying isthey said, well, we have to pay
transportation and blah, blah,blah, there's no transportation
costs there.
And yet they were.
They were charging all thatamount, which is what they were
charging here in San Antonio,the same amount to the customers
, and so I Think the productthat they're growing in the
valley is different.
I think it's more.

(01:08:55):
You know, fancy, that's what Ithink.
I don't know, that's true, butthat's what I think.

Speaker 2 (01:09:01):
Yeah, I was thinking earlier when you were talking
about just like how land ischanging all over Texas and
becoming more like cows ranches,I guess how.
One of my like visions for thefuture of Texas, specifically
because we have so much land, isto be able to grow all of our
own Food as well as like create,you know, the industries for

(01:09:23):
like metal and development right, instead of getting all of
these materials from China thatlike break down after a couple
years after development.
How to create like our ownmicro economy in Texas, which
just seems like it would makesense.
When I lived in Oregon, I couldgo to the farmers market and
get so much food Picked thatmorning, and I'm like I live in

(01:09:45):
Texas where there's farmlandeverywhere around me.
Why aren't we having access toany of that and how do we create
that access Instead of H ebhaving a good age.
Yeah, dude, actually I wasthinking too.
I remember hearing this storyfrom this guy who, um Whenever
his family had a supermarkethere in San Antonio.

(01:10:08):
You know talking aboutmonopolies, h eb monopolizing
grocery stores.
And in like the 60s maybe, h ebJacked up the prices of produce
down in the valley so that theycould make it cheaper here in
San Antonio, and then all of theother grocery stores ran out of

(01:10:31):
business because everyone wasgoing to where it was cheaper,
at H eb.
And that's how H eb Monopolizedstore in town.

Speaker 4 (01:10:40):
It is the only story that's, everybody talks about it
and they own a lot of reallyprime property too.
Do they?

Speaker 3 (01:10:47):
the river downtown, the river the arsenal.

Speaker 2 (01:10:51):
Campus yeah, not to say about them, but I Feel like
I didn't even touch on, likeeverything I wanted to talk
about with you because we got tomake these longer.
Yeah, if you would come backfor a part two sometime, that
would be what happens at this,at this equity, health equity.

Speaker 4 (01:11:13):
We have something to say about that.

Speaker 2 (01:11:15):
We'll give a report back.
Yeah, yeah, what happens?
Yeah, well, let me just quicklysay that too, because that was
so like I forgot.
One time I can't went to amental health forum thing, not
to speak, just to participate asa community engagement meeting,
and and mental health is myfield and so they went through
the whole presentation.
They're this is what we'redoing.

(01:11:36):
This is what we're doing.
This is what we're doing.
Any questions?
All Non-profits.
Every single question was froma non-profit, asking about their
request for proposal.
How much money can they get?
Like all all those types ofquestions.
And so, finally, I like raise myhand and say that I'm like you
know, everyone here is justasking about the logistics of

(01:11:58):
business, logistics.
Where are we getting questionsof from people who actually have
mental health Issues?
And you know that, gettingpeople on the ground, that's
where we're going to know how tomost effectively and
efficiently distribute thesefunds.
It was ARPA funds and my pointbeing the afterward, so many
people came up to me and we'relike nonprofit people, thank you

(01:12:20):
so much.
We really need those types ofquestions being asked and I'm
like yeah, you're welcome by myhead.
I'm like why aren't you askingthem then?
And really it comes down tosurvival, right, like we have
the autonomy to be able to, Iguess, and these people Don't
they'll lose their jobs or losetheir contract with the city or

(01:12:41):
whatever, but it really, itreally just is like that, where
we just get Thanks and givenlots of gratitude for speaking
up for the people, but, like,where's the action from any of
you, any of these bureaucraticlevels?

Speaker 4 (01:12:57):
Yep, yep.
And you know we have so manypeople in those, in those good
positions when you know people,people have moved, you know, you
know All the Chicanos have beeneducated, become educated, and
they've moved into thosepositions of influence, if not
power, at least you know they'resitting on, and and so what do
you give up to get there?

(01:13:18):
You?
know what do you have to give upto get there?
And and when can those folkssee that maybe they're, they're
okay and that they can startdoing something, that that that
really makes changes?
I don't know, because I justlike, just, I see it all the
time.
Yeah, these fantastic folks,you know they move their PhDs or
whatever and then they're kindof like, just you know they move

(01:13:42):
into the system.
That's a good money moreproblems and then you become in
that consumer, and then yeah,and then they get consumed with
whatever they have to do to keepthere right, stay there.

Speaker 2 (01:13:52):
I imagine it takes a lot of you get up to that
certain point and you, just you,have to sacrifice your soul
yeah literally to make harddecisions and then and then and
ease and easier ones, becausethere's so many.

Speaker 4 (01:14:04):
There's so many decisions to make, right.
Yeah, well these are easy.
Let me do these.

Speaker 2 (01:14:08):
Yeah, yeah, no otherwise I mean yeah, otherwise
you're sacrificing, I guess,your popularity.
Yeah your reputation, yourposition.
Well, thank you, rebecca, thankyou.

Speaker 4 (01:14:20):
You're welcome I.

Speaker 2 (01:14:22):
Didn't talk about everything I want to talk about
with you.

Speaker 4 (01:14:24):
It's too much to talk about.

Speaker 2 (01:14:26):
Yeah, will you come back again, Okay we'll do yes,
thank you.
You're welcome.