September 15, 2023 • 47 mins
Alesia's articles: https://focusingonwildlife.com/news/author/ag1birdlady/
YouTube: https://youtu.be/-gum3-0XtyQ?si=vMmHeVb91V3RbMbY
Imagine a bustling city, San Antonio, in the grips of a bird crisis, citizens being shrouded in misinformation from city government, and our guest, Alesia Garlock, aka Bird Lady, taking a stand against it. Alesia leads us on her personal journey of transforming into a wildlife advocate. She also unveils the shocking truth about how the city is not only destroying habitats but hiring USDA Wildlife Services to eliminate birds, despite their minor threat to the environment.
Join our discussion on the hardships faced by these birds, who migrate from as far as South America to breed. Alesia uncovers the heartbreaking story of USDA employees cruelly destroying birds' nests—a glaring symbol of the city's disregard for wildlife. But the wildlife crisis is not the only thing that's alarming. Alesia exposes the misuse of bond money, intended for improving park facilities, and how it's being manipulated by the city's wealthy residents for personal gain and plunging the city deep into debt. We also touch on the serious matter of environmental degradation and water scarcity caused by the city's actions.
This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in understanding the deeper impact of urbanization on wildlife and how it changed the life of one person committed to making a difference.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Narrator (00:00):
As the cosmos connects the universe, water
connects life.
At the Cosmic Water Podcast,we're exploring the history,
mythology and future of thesacred land known as San Antonio
.
Angela (00:23):
Hello and welcome to Cosmic Water Podcast, our first
episode.
I'm so glad to have AliciaGarlock here, aka Bird Lady, as
she's lovingly known, and let'sjust get started.
So if you could start bytelling us how you became an
advocate for wildlife?
Alesia (00:44):
Well, when I first moved to San Antonio, it was not much
for me to do here and a blinddate actually showed me the
egrets in there and saidBrackenridge.
And so, of course, that blinddate went out the window, but
the birds were still in my heart.
And so I started watching themback in 2014.
(01:04):
And in 2014, I had complainedabout them and I was on the news
, you know, but I didn't know.
So by 2016, I was learningabout the birds and becoming
involved with rescuing you know,injured or sick birds.
(01:24):
So Brackenridge is a place thatmany people go to, and the
birds nested their migratoryegrets and herons for part of
the year, and I found that itwas something of a challenge to
watch them and to try to get apicture that nobody else had,
(01:47):
and people would ask me how didyou get that picture?
Because I sat there for likehours and so I have a condition
that is irreversible, and so,instead of pain management or
pain sorry medication, I usebirdwatching as pain management.
Birdwatching has been found tobe good for your health.
(02:08):
There's research by Dr DanielCox of the University of Exeter,
who says birdwatching nature ingeneral is good for your health
, making cities healthier,happier places to live.
So I found my happy place inBrackenridge Park with birds and
then, of course, all the peoplethat I met while I was watching
the birds photographers, myfriends, you know everyone, all
(02:32):
my friends are from the park andI learned that these birds come
from as far away South America.
They fly up here to nest tohave babies, to keep their
species alive, and the problemis there's a lot of
misinformation out there aboutthese poor birds.
You know, they poop well, yes,so do dogs and cats, but these
(02:54):
birds come to nest, they havetheir babies.
There is a high mortality rate,sadly for all of them, so it
really every baby counts, youknow, because they don't know
what their future is.
We're in a severe drought rightnow, and so what happens when
they migrate south or north andthere's no water source and
(03:16):
they're going to die.
And that's the problem thatwe're facing.
Not only you know wildlife, butus as humans.
But the birds were my painmanager, my challenge to get out
there and to learn about natureand to try to make a difference
(03:37):
and teach people.
Especially, a lot of peopledon't know that these birds,
like I said, they come from asfar away, south America.
There are three species inBrackenridge Park that are
listed as species of greatestconservation need.
The state gets federal funding,mandated by Congress, to
protect those birds and theirhabitat.
And they're not.
And the yellow sorry, the snowythe little blue heron and the
(04:04):
tricolored heron.
The tricolored heron is aprotected bird in Texas and nest
here.
Only eight birds came to nest.
Well, eight nests, so 16 birds.
But you would think the citywould be like protecting those
birds and they definitely justlike we just went them out of
there.
The little blue herons arelisted as a species, of high
concern, by the Fish andWildlife Service for the
(04:25):
declining populations.
They're going to becomethreatened, probably in the
state of Texas in the nextcouple years.
In Florida and in Louisiana theearth threatened species and so
the problem that's happeninghere in San Antonio is the city
has destroyed multiple habitats,trying to chase these birds
away without even making anykind of attempt to learn more
(04:47):
about the birds, the speciesneeding conservation, or to try
to help keep that species going.
You know what I mean when youdestroy eggs.
That's a viable embryo and wehad some not those species, but
other species that were nestingthis year and they were
(05:09):
destroyed in the park.
And you know why.
Why are we, the city of SanAntonio, hiring a contractor,
the USDA Wildlife Service, tokill our birds?
You, know, and this is allhidden from the public, you know
they say, oh, the USDA is,they're helping us, you know,
manage.
No, they're a hired contractorand they are contracted to kill
(05:29):
wildlife.
And that's the misinformation,the misrepresentation of
information from our city thatthey're saying oh, we just want
to move him humanely andnon-lethally.
No, then you wouldn't havehired a killer to come in to
destroy a nest Bible 8 is aliving embryo or kill adult
birds, you know.
Maureen (05:49):
But and so this also happened at Elmendorf and
Woodalon Is that when this wholekilling of birds and destroyed
again, it started.
Alesia (05:59):
The assault I was I call it an assault on the bird
started in 2018 at Elmendorf,where they said the cattle
eagles were a threat to planesWhile they were advertising.
There are 50 bird strikes ayear.
Well, those are other species.
Oh, the cattle eagles.
You know they're going to makea plank of that.
Well, there was only eight birdstrikes with cattle eagles in a
(06:20):
10 year span.
So there's a lot ofmisinformation there.
The water quality they said wasbad was actually information
from the USDA.
It wasn't from our own riverauthority.
So they facilitated that whole,got to get rid of the birds,
you know thing.
But when they got the initialwork document for Elmendorf,
(06:41):
they revised it to include allother city parks and from then
we knew, I knew they were goingto go from park to park and then
Elm Woodalon Lake Park wasadded next.
And then I'm a bracket Rach.
Maureen (06:55):
When you say USDA it's a man and it wasn't the river
party.
So what you said?
Alesia (07:02):
right.
So the USDA Wildlife Servicesthey have like an animal plant
and a fess animal plant andsomething I don't remember how
to say it exactly, but they havelike research and stuff that
they use.
Well, the city, instead ofusing our San Antonio River
Authority water information use,the USDA's was saying the birds
(07:23):
could have this or that.
Maureen (07:25):
What is up with the USDA?
They do this around the country.
Alesia (07:28):
They do it around the country.
They're paid a contractor.
People hire them to killwildlife.
That's what they're.
They're paid contractor andthere's research out there that
they do treat animals inhumanelyand cruelly and they hide a lot
of information and misrepresentinformation.
(07:49):
I mean there's a lot of studiesout there.
Animal Legal Defense Fund hadto sue them for open records
because they wouldn't releaseother records, and that's the
same thing here that I've dealtwith is that our city is hiding
open records.
I know what's going on becauseI've followed these words for
six years.
The thing is the public has aright to know, especially if
(08:10):
it's public funds.
You know, but the planobviously was to go from
Elmendorf to Woodlawn, toBracken Ridge.
They also shot them away fromsomewhere near Blue Star and
some other area of town andpretty much they've hired them
to go around the whole city andthey're like well, they're
telling us, you know they'rehelping us manage.
No, they're a paid contractor.
(08:32):
You paid them and you tell themwhat to do.
Obviously You're in charge.
Right, the city who hired youis like them, lawyers.
And I don't know if y'all werein the park over week Easter
weekend but the USDA wasshooting explosives over the
public and there weren't anybirds already in there to be
shooting at the.
But over the bird, yeah over thepublic, and so my thing was
(08:54):
like well, why are they doing it?
Because the city would have hadto tell them Yay, or stop it
for the weekend or not, but theyobviously told them do it
Because they did it over theweekend and I have video that I
have video from 2017 of thebirds nesting in Bracken Ridge
mark, and so there's a lot ofstuff when they say, like the
(09:14):
birds are, oh, their poop is ahealth hazard.
Well, how is it a health hazard?
Is it?
You touch it, you eat it, youplay in it?
How is it a health hazard?
So there's misinformation there.
There is stuff online that says, obviously, like any poop
pieces, whatever, you wouldn'ttouch it because there is
bacteria and it's just like ours.
The water quality of BrackenRidge has been said to be
(09:38):
contaminated because of thebirds, but it's only 16% avian.
That's what you're words theother 84% so it's a lot of
misinformation about these birds, about you know, they're poop
and and they're they make a mess, and others too many.
Well, the city Corraled theminto Bracken Ridge last year by
(10:00):
destroying all the otherhabitats and chasing them away
From Woodland, elmendorf and whoknows where else, so they
created the problem, but theydon't want to own up to the
problem.
And I don't know, when therewas a city council meeting the
other day and some guy from theNature Conservancy I'm sorry I
do not Back that organizationbut he said we have to do that
(10:23):
they were going to deal with theeager problem.
It's not an eager problem, it'sa man problem, it's a human
problem because we're destroyingso much habitat around this
city.
You know that we are drivingthese animals into public areas.
I don't know if you rememberthere was a wild boar that was
in a golf course on the otherside of town and the guy said I
(10:47):
forget what, what company wasthat?
Because of their losing habitat, they're coming into the city.
I've seen a Turkey in inBracken Ridge Park.
I've seen a coyote but youwouldn't think what's a coyote
doing in Bracken Ridge Park andit's because they're losing
habitat.
You know, you hear of peopleseeing these wild animals that
you don't normally see in theirbackyards because of where the
(11:10):
city is allowing Destruction ofso much habitat or in a crisis.
Our climate is ridiculous.
We're in a air quality ismoderate and unattainment, we're
a severe drought, we're heatisland and we're losing these,
these trees that we need a lotto live, and so you know these
(11:31):
birds.
They fight every year to nest,and it's to keep their species
alive.
It's not just like, oh, we'regonna come poop and make you mad
.
No, we're trying to stay alivebecause if they don't
successfully nest Every year,they're gonna decline and then
they'll become threatened andendangered, extinct.
Maureen (11:51):
When they come from as far as South America up here, do
they?
Do they go further, like a centon just one of the stops.
Alesia (12:00):
Yeah, so the yellow crown night herring is one that
comes from South America andthey go all the way up to New
Jersey, where they're consideredendangered I think threatened
or endangered but they gothroughout the United States.
So they all come North for thissome to breed, and then they go
south for the winter normally,but because of our climate
(12:21):
crisis or climate change, someof them are staying around
because it's so warm here, youknow.
So we'll see what happens withthis winter, because I think
somebody said it was gonna be aEl Nino or something.
Yeah, so you know, these, thesebirds are just like us, you
know.
They're trying to survive.
Maureen (12:42):
And I'm curious is it like the wildlife USDA wildlife
services that somebody can seethat is kind of around the
nation right one, a lot ofdifferent kind of species, or do
you think that they like aretargeting like egrets and they,
the USDA, has a long list of allkinds of species of wildlife
(13:06):
that they take care of.
But they take care of right,which is kill right now or
they're dealing with.
Alesia (13:12):
There's a lot of ghost killings around the nation goose
killings, and they do ducks andOther stuff, like I know there
was one city that where theyRemoved ducks and they said
we're gonna take them to thesouthern lake.
Well, if they're migratorythey're gonna fly back.
So they obviously killed theducks, you know so they wouldn't
(13:33):
come back, but they go aroundthe country.
They are hired to kill wildlife.
You know they say they're tohelp.
But is it mitigate theconflicts between humans and
wildlife?
No, yeah they say their missionis to Work to, like, make it
(13:53):
better whatever environment.
I don't know, but they say it's.
They use millions of taxpayerdollars every year to do their
work, and a lot of it I meanthey do.
It's not related to the USDA,like doesn't poultry and all
this stuff?
This is a different one,specifically for wildlife, both
(14:15):
under the west right, correct.
I don't know how far back awaybecause I don't.
All I all I research when Ilook up something is USDA kills
birds and it'll pop up all kindsof stuff.
All kinds of stuff, yeah allkinds of articles about them,
killing wildlife, and so tothink that our city of San
Antonio is not having wildlifekilled is like naive or just
(14:40):
Dotto mom sorry.
Maureen (14:42):
Your articles that San Antonio was proclaimed by the
state as the birds, yeah, yeah.
Alesia (14:50):
Yeah, they submitted for bird City Texas program which
is supposed to include publicengagement and also Involvement
in like, say, like conflicts,that they call these birds a
conflict.
Well, the conflict is becausethe humans of birds has
destroyed their habitats andhurt what is it Corraled them
around, you know the city tryingto get rid of them, but they're
(15:12):
supposed to include the publicand decisions and Education and
stuff for these birds andthey've not.
So I'm sorry but they don'tdeserve that bird City Texas,
you know, status or whatever,because they're not bird
friendly in the city's claimingthat it's not about the tree
removal and that's not about thebirds.
Angela (15:34):
But he is, across from the Conservancy is where they
used to, you know, have abasically a roofery right, you
know, and then they drove themout with the explosives and the
wood knocking which drove themto be the following year to
gather all over there by thewitty To give this presence.
(15:55):
That it's, it's a hazard, oryou know, when they, when they
take them away from where theywere, across from the
Conservancy, over that's notwhere people were hanging out.
They allowed the birds togather there.
You know that under those treesthere were that they're gonna
remove.
You wouldn't really see toomany people there because they
were only here.
For how long do they sit around?
Alesia (16:13):
It just depends, but they would normally historically
come in April and then theywould leave like by August Right
soon as the chicks could go.
But in that plan for blackmatchbark we did have an email found
that said Removing the trees wasbecause of the birds.
Even though they kept refutingit in public meetings, there is
(16:33):
documentation that the city saidthey were cutting down these
trees to keep the birds fromnesting and in their first
Request for the historicdesigner re-commission Approval
for this project, they put inthere to to prevent work grease
from forming.
How stupid is that that you'regonna cut down a hundred year
(16:55):
old tree to keep birds fromnesting?
The birds are gone becausethey've shot at them or killed
them or something.
But we still need the trees.
That river needs those trees tosurvive.
You know there's fish in there.
I saw a bunch of baby fishtoday.
And Take out all those.
That tree canopy it's 48 treesbetween both bridges and that
(17:17):
river is gonna heat up and it'sgonna dissipate and those little
fishies are gonna die becauseit's too hot and we're gonna
have algae moves and you knowthe city talks about oh, we got
it.
You know, protect the river.
Well, protecting the riverwould include leaving the tree
canopy to give it shade andOxygen, you know, and stuff like
(17:39):
that and the plan is to have aconcrete walkway along the water
right there too, right?
Yeah, they, they haven't intheir plan that there's a
walkway.
Well, between the first bridgeand the pump house there's no
walkway.
So they keep saying, oh, we'renot gonna narrow the channel.
Well, if you're putting in asidewalk that wasn't there,
you're narrowing the channel.
(17:59):
And they keep trying to say, oh, now we're not narrowing the
channel If you add three feet ofa sidewalk of concrete To suck
to where there's nothing with noshade when you say you're
narrowing the channel and so itfloods, that's a hundred year
floodplain and it flooded, Ithink 1998 and 2004, down the
(18:21):
River Road.
They had damage to their housesbecause of flooding, so that
100-year floodplain it couldflood anytime Is what it means,
not just every 100 years.
But by them altering thatchannel, it's going to cause
flooding.
And see, they're not evenlooking at the big picture.
Is it going to cause flooding?
(18:42):
Is the river going to heat up?
Are you going to collapse theecosystem by taking out trees
that are keystone species, likethe oak trees?
There's a lot of negativeresults that are going to come
through fruition with thisproject and our city just seems
to want to ignore it.
And when the birds can go justwherever, no, next year is going
(19:05):
to be some of these backyardand then they're going to really
want to kill them.
That's why it's a park.
It's a 340-acre park, 43 orsomething, and there was some
nests in the forest and theywere like, oh, they can go nest
in the forest.
Well, those nests in the forestwere destroyed.
(19:25):
Hi by the USDA, obviously,because they were like 20 feet
up in the air, 30 feet, and wehave video of them.
Just around one nest there wasthree guys that looked like the
three stooges on an SUV or RTVor whatever.
They were literally one on topof each other knocking down a
(19:46):
nest.
They're down there.
But yeah, I have it on anothervideo.
But it's like why can't theynest in the forest?
Nobody's in there.
But that's the othermisrepresentation.
Oh, they can go in the forest.
No, you destroyed their nests.
Maureen (20:02):
No, they really don't want them.
Alesia (20:03):
You don't want them here .
And they were chasing them downRed Oak Lane, which is Red Oak
Road, which is down the otherend.
So they were chasing them allover the park.
I had a video of that guyshooting a blank 22 handgun at
them at the Whitty Museum inthat direction, and he didn't
even know who was over there.
So when you talk about hazards,these birds, the bird group is
(20:26):
hazard no.
City of San Antonio is a hazard.
They're what they allow thesepeople to do to our wildlife.
They're doing it to us also.
Angela (20:37):
I was walking over in the south end of San Antonio,
the Medina River Walkway.
I sent you those pictures.
We found a handful of nestswith the branches attached just
right there by the parking lot.
We moved from the trees andjust threw right there on the
ground.
Alesia (20:57):
Yeah, and seeing the thing they do is they do stuff
when no one's around Becausethen they're like, oh, how do
you know it was us?
Well, who else would have beenable to get up to a tree 20 feet
up in the air?
Maureen (21:07):
On a nature trail.
Alesia (21:08):
Yeah.
Maureen (21:09):
It's so evil and people are always like a lot of
people's rationalization intheir head is like if something
like that was happening, I wouldhear about it, I would know
about it and look how hard youguys fought at the Brock and
Ranch Park and still so manypeople don't really know or
believe just how bad it reallywas and that it's own government
(21:32):
doing it Right Because theyhide the facts.
Alesia (21:35):
They tell people, oh, we're trying to make it better
for the public the signs inthere.
I think we're something aboutmaking it for people and
wildlife to coexist or somethingI don't remember.
It's not a simple shit, Sorry.
There were signs of all overthe park and it's like really
coexist.
When you're shooting explosivesat the birds and us because they
(21:58):
were shooting that over us andhow is that coexisting,
Disturbing nests of birds thatonly live 6.3 years, how is that
coexisting?
How is that allowing a speciesto survive if you're just being
an ass and destroying all theirnests?
And I have a video of one ofthose USDA guys chasing a night
(22:20):
here and it was one bird out ofthe river.
He went up to it, was bangingboards at it and then he shot an
explosive at it.
Why Do you know that bird can'tbuild a nest in a river?
I mean, are you that stupidthat you don't know a bird can't
build a nest in the river?
He's trying to eat, he's tryingto get a drink of water and
they were chasing that poor birdout of the river.
(22:42):
That's cruelty.
That's inhumane, because allhe's trying to do is eat, and
it's like do these guys not takeany kind of training?
I mean, what's that's?
Maureen (22:52):
the outcome.
I'm like what are they beingtold?
Like what is the informationthat they're giving to things
like that that's OK to do.
Alesia (22:59):
Yeah, well, that's why I'm thinking the city parks.
I always say Bill Penel's incharge of this, he was in charge
of parks and that he was incharge, he was assistant manager
when he got a promotion.
But yeah, and I think they justsaid do whatever you want,
think you need to do.
They don't care what peoplehave to say, they don't.
(23:21):
They don't Even people werereporting to the police, park
police and they're like there'snothing we can do?
Yeah, you can, because theyhave to follow local, state and
federal laws for public safety.
And they weren't, because I'vehad video where they almost hit
people in the head with a ballof flame in the park and then
people were having a picnic andhere comes down an explosive
(23:45):
cartridge.
Those things fly 45 miles anhour, 130 decibels.
They can cause injury.
A blank gun can kill somebody.
We learned that the last coupleyears when somebody shot a
blank hand gun and killedsomebody.
So these guys are runningaround the park with this blank
hand gun shooting.
Angela (24:03):
They had one.
Alesia (24:06):
Yeah, it was crazy.
It was so crazy and unnecessarythis whole project.
Obviously to get the birds out,cut all the trees down is to
develop the park.
Maureen (24:18):
And this whole project goes back to the 2017 bond as
well.
Alesia (24:23):
They're saying it's 2017 bond, but if you looked at that
bond project, it said it was tofix the river walls, trails and
the restrooms.
And then, all of a sudden, theyadded all this oh, we're going
to rehabilitate the pump house,we're going to knock out the
bottom, we're going to take outthe turnaround road, we're going
to take out parking spaces,picnic tables None of that was
(24:44):
inside a road.
Angela (24:44):
No, that was not in that bond project and you were
involved with that bond projectright?
Alesia (24:48):
No, I wasn't, but we had people that were on those
committees and they have norecord of tree cutting, roadway
being taken out, water beingbecause they want to divert
water, redirect surface waterand so all this stuff that
they're adding in there thatcosts money.
Why is the public being forcedto pay for this stuff and we
(25:12):
won't even be able to use it?
Maureen (25:13):
Well, do you know what about bonds?
I just have to rant about thisBecause when I really researched
into it because it was bondmoney that were either soapworks
or we were all gettingdisplaced a bunch of money was
going into that.
So I did a bunch of research onbonds and it's actually the
greatest investment for richpeople to make because you are
(25:34):
guaranteed to get the money backwith interest via the taxpayers
.
So all bond money comes fromthe city or whatever government
entity going to all these richpeople and basically soliciting
funds and saying we'll pay youback over this period of time
(25:55):
with this much interest, and allof that is guaranteed.
What's so frustrating aboutthat is that I brought up bond
stuff to the city before aboutprojects and problems and they
were like well, we have tofollow exactly what the voters
voted for, and so they're justlike oh yeah, but we can also
have stuff into it as we please.
It's so frustrating, and thenalso because it's about all of
(26:18):
the richest people in SanAntonio that pay for the bond.
They ultimately get to decidebecause they want something back
immediately, not just theirmoney and interest over time.
But whatever these projects are, they have big say in,
apparently, in changing it tooto look however they want.
You're just treating SanAntonio like they're a little
(26:40):
playground all over, and so I'malways like do not vote for
bonds.
You never vote for bonds, andeven like this past bond last
year they were voting on and Iasked one of the council members
I was like ask them where themoney comes from, and they were
just like oh, it comes frompeople who have a very secure
investment.
(27:01):
And that was all that they wouldtell them, and they wouldn't
give them the list or anything.
So even the council is justpretty clueless about where this
bond money comes from.
And yet every four years theyjust throw it out at us and
you've got to vote for the bondif you want this city to prosper
.
And it's really just a bunch ofrich people's money.
(27:21):
We're going to have to beindebted to Bracken.
Alesia (27:25):
Ridge.
Well, the project for BrackenRidge is part of a development
plan.
There's a funding agreementwith the Bracken Ridge for a
Concervency which is to allowthem to develop the park.
It says to raise money to bestewards.
Stewards how are they being asteward if they haven't fixed
anything?
I mean the restroom's fallingapart.
(27:45):
There was no paper towels inthere, basic stuff pick up the
trash, get the stuff out of theriver.
You know, maintain the parklike you would your house, and
they haven't done anything.
And so when they say they'restewards of the park, I have to
question that, because what arethey being stewards of other
(28:08):
than trying to get their project?
You know, funded agreement,whatever, to get them what they
want, and a lot of that has todo with the garden.
Which who needs another venue?
You know it's a lot of stuffthat we don't need.
Anything that was decided backin 2017 is out the door.
We're in a climate crisis.
(28:29):
We're in a drought, heat,island, air quality.
You know they want to divertriver water.
Why, you know, put it in a in adry, the second, that raceway.
They want to put water throughtheir white.
Angela (28:47):
We don't have water.
It's not even a real apsaicia.
It's going to be a facade witha pump Right To have it seem
like it's a working saki.
Alesia (28:57):
Right and like they want to uncover a dam that's over
there where they say the Lilypond.
Well, that dam, if you look atall the archeological reports,
it says for them not to uncoverit.
We're going to spend all thismoney to uncover an
archeological site or, you know,dam that they've been told
(29:20):
leave alone because it's goingto disintegrate.
So, you know, a lot of misuseof money is all I can see.
You know the USDA was paid forout of the 2017 bond project.
I have an email on that and I'msure this year the contractors
were.
They were banging boards, thefence, that fence that was put
(29:43):
up to keep the people out.
It said they wanted to keep thethose people out that you know
are bothering the contractors.
Last year I wasn't bothering thecontractors, I was videotaping,
yeah, to keep the public out.
That was meant for us.
You know, keep the people outwho uses a park, the residents,
(30:04):
and what they're working towardsI'm sure isn't going to be for
the residents.
You know that's how it appearsand that's the sad part, because
Bracker Ridge Park bequest thepark to be kept a park.
They said do not commitownership, do not alienate or
encumber it.
I consider it encumber withdebt, but I you know that may be
my.
(30:24):
I'm not sure on that, but theConservancy was saying it's
going to be $400 million for tofinish the work.
We don't have that?
And if we did, why would we?
We have roads that are fallingapart.
We have people with foodinsecurity, housing insecurity,
(30:44):
our air quality.
You know?
Water.
What happens when that aquifergoes so low and we don't have
water?
We're going to be drinking thatrecycled sewer water.
Well, some of the water isrecycled.
We call it filtered, but youknow, they're not even looking
at our current crisis.
They're just like oh, we wantour plans.
Angela (31:06):
Yeah, would you see Jacob's well?
Alesia (31:09):
I already dried up right .
Angela (31:10):
Yeah, cut from over pumping.
Alesia (31:13):
Yeah.
So you know this project isgoing to collapse, probably that
ecosystem, because withoutthose trees it's going to make a
big difference.
And then the birds you knowthey've been impacted already.
I went this morning and therewere only ducks in there in the
fence and they all looked at melike scared.
(31:37):
Some of them even jumped in theriver and I'm like, oh you poor
birds, you're scared becauseyou've been assaulted by these
USDA people for since Februaryand they don't know if
somebody's going to shoot atthem.
Maureen (31:55):
I was going to ask you.
I always wonder those peoplewho have dedicated so much of
their life and energy to thistype of work.
It's so exhausting.
What do you do for self-care?
Alesia (32:12):
Is that a true question?
Maureen (32:16):
No, so I mean, I know you said that it was like going
to the park.
Alesia (32:22):
Well, well, what we've done is we're doing research.
You know I did I did a lot ofresearch on, obviously, the
project where you know they wantto destroy all the trees, so
we're looking at how is removingthose trees going to affect the
environment.
I don't know if you've everwatched Fantastic Clone Guy on
(32:44):
Netflix, but it talks about thelittle connections between trees
and the little microorganisms,mycelium, stuff like that.
There's a whole lot of stuff onthat, and so we actually spoke
with somebody that does thatresearch and you know, when you
start messing with nature,there's consequences and, like
(33:06):
you mess with those tree rootsand their connections to other
microorganisms.
It's going to affect somethingelse.
Take out the trees, it willaffect something else us and the
, not only the birds.
You know that they want to getrid of.
Chase the birds away.
It affects something else.
Everything is a dominant effect.
But I just researched.
Maureen (33:27):
I write stories focusing on wildlife and that
like feels good for you, likefeels like it kind of like
regulates your nervous system.
Alesia (33:37):
you know Well it keeps me busy and I feel like I
accomplished something becauseI'm sharing stories, even the
facts.
The city likes has made a lotof mis.
This is our false statements.
You know there's a lot ofmisinformation and so once I
find the facts, I like to shareit, and so videos.
Maureen (33:58):
we did the documentary With all of propaganda is that
it's meant to humiliate, andonce you feel humiliated, right,
your social response is to likesort of silence yourself, and
that's what it feels like a lotof those stories from all of
these mainstream Santone Mediaoutlets is meant to do where
(34:18):
it's like oh, look at this likepoor octopus and they're wrong
for a hundred reasons from thegovernment.
Alesia (34:25):
Yeah, there's this thing called open records, and so we
have a lot of documents thatrefute most of what the city
says.
So that's why, it's like youknow.
It infuriates me because I knowit's propaganda and it's all
bullshit.
They're telling the public, butthey don't public, doesn't know
, you know how do we get it outthere?
Yeah, how do you get it outthere with all the documents?
Maureen (34:50):
Oh, you guys did so good Number that one time you
went to City Hall and we werefighting for the.
I get your center.
That was supposed to be in myneighborhood.
I saw about it, or probablythousandth of any and one of the
council members people whoworks for them was like well,
you've got, you've got to dowhat the Brock and Arch people
(35:11):
are doing.
It was so powerful.
Now you guys were able toorganize and and yeah and how
frustrating it is now that itstill didn't work.
Angela (35:27):
I mean how many people called in to that last HDRC
meeting?
Alesia (35:34):
We had a bunch of people , but that was already pre
premeditated despite all thosephone calls despite everybody
that showed up.
Yeah, because that one lady waslike I've already heard this
before, I'm ready to vote.
That tells you that they knewalready they were going to
approve it.
Same thing with Texas HistoricCommission.
They have that chairman is onthe board of another nonprofit,
(35:56):
or so called on the.
They have private interests,you know, involved in this whole
thing and they got their way sofar.
But you know there's a federallawsuit and there's a few more
to go.
Maureen (36:09):
I was wondering this lot.
This is most recent, though,that city hall, when it was a
six four vote, if not hadn'tpassed, would it not have gone
through?
Like was that vote prettymeaningful and continuing the
project?
Alesia (36:24):
No, because they were just asking for more money.
But the thing is they keepasking for more money, like
every week.
Now is it going to be moremoney.
You want more money.
How do you build a house, doyou like?
You make a contract, right, andthat's it.
You know they don't come backnext week and say, oh, we found
something else.
The city's goal is to excludethe public.
When the first in 2021, therewas a meeting there was supposed
(36:50):
to be setting up for theplanning commission, the name of
the of the like meeting waschanged to something like
totally not including BrentBrents Park.
So they I believe there was.
I, I believe there appears tohave been a a willful intent to
(37:13):
withhold information from thepublic because nobody knew about
the planning commission meeting.
When in January there were fourof us, I was one of four women
that spoke.
And then the HGRC meeting.
They tried to get that pushedthrough without people knowing.
Also, and the same thing withall these meetings oh, we're
(37:37):
doing public involvement.
No, you're not, you're, you're,you're just letting us talk and
you're not doing anything.
At that city council meeting inlast month, you know I said oh,
you know we've reached acompromise.
There's no compromise.
Y'all all said you know you'regonna do what you're gonna do
and you don't care what we haveto say.
You've shown us that by goingforward with this project to
(38:01):
destroy 48 trees in one sectionof the river, you didn't save
any trees.
You haven't done anything forthe public.
You know they're all worriedabout these non-profits, these
private stakeholders.
You know who uses the park, thepeople yeah, yeah, that's what
they always say.
Maureen (38:21):
That's, that's that's their definition of stakeholders
is non-profit organization welldevelopers yeah, yeah, yeah.
Their idea of communitystakeholders is these non-profit
organizations and they're justas guilty, right?
Because they say that, oh,we're a voice for the voice
voice and it's like no, you'renot like you, they have a voice.
(38:45):
And so how do we get to them,like that should always be.
The question is, how do we getto the people and hear what they
have to say?
But, yeah, you're right, andthat they, you know.
It's very deliberate yeah, it'sdeliberate.
Alesia (38:57):
It's like they they don't care what we have to say,
they want what they want to.
Maureen (39:01):
And what if you woke up one morning 10 years from now
so it's 23rd and a miracleoccurred in those 10 years and
everything just is exactly howyou the dream it would be?
What does that look like andhow do you think that we got
(39:21):
there?
Alesia (39:23):
oh, if it was a dream, the dream would be that the
trees at Brackern Ranch Parkwould be safe from demolition,
that the park would be made forthe people and the people would
be involved in the the decisions.
Right, we would actually bethere.
You know, this is what we want.
The playgrounds been emptysince 2020 because they they're
(39:47):
going to destroy it.
They don't tell people that.
Why is that playground closed?
So the city would listen to us.
We're their boss.
They keep saying it's your city, your park.
Well, yeah, if that's the case,then why aren't you listening
to us?
So I guess in my dream world,it would be that our city would
be actually, you know, theemployees that we would want
(40:10):
them to be and they would dowhat we want and not be focused
on.
These developers, you know thatare looking out for private
interests because, if everythinggoes through the way they want
it, those that park's not goingto be for the public.
It's going to be privateinterest events or whatever.
And that's what people don'tunderstand that that park has a
(40:32):
rich history of a culturalconnection to the community and
what they want to do with it isnot going to be about the
community.
You know it's it's going to befor private interests and that's
the sad part, that they want tofacilitate that.
Continue to tell that lie andwe're making it better for you.
(40:52):
Not, if I can't use it and thatis probably the most historical
people's park of San Jose.
It's one of the oldest.
It's also state antiquitieslandmark.
Angela (41:05):
There's artifacts there dating back 12,000 years and
they haven't even thought ofthat so we have streaming, um,
not streaming, but we haveplaying um Alicia's documentary
that you need, um, um, and thennext, which is available on
youtube, by the way, your birdchannel okay, what's?
(41:27):
What's your channel's name?
Alesia (41:29):
I think it's AG.
Birdlink but, AG Birdlink justlook up to save our central park
to save our central park inBrackern's Park and you can find
it on there, along with herother videos.
Angela (41:41):
Um, my bird nests that are here are made from found
objects along survey sites ofthe future destruction of that
back in the park and I wanted torecreate what they're
destroying.
So that's what.
That's what those are.
Alesia (42:00):
So, yeah, I just wanted to say my dream is that we could
swim in that water again well,unfortunately it will never be,
because it's a fluid water tobegin with, meaning it's sewer
water, and then there's so muchrunoff and the zoo just charges
(42:22):
into the river miracles no, lady.
That's why they want to get ridof the birds.
A pool, swimming pool, would besafer bet and because you gotta
remember that the water heatsup, there's out.
There could be like amoebas,amoebas there's brain eating
amoebas in warm, warm water.
(42:45):
You should watch monsters inmonsters in me there's, it's on
the it's on the documentary yourlittle docs that talk about
like parasites and stuff butyeah there's different stuff.
Angela (43:02):
I feel like it's popped up onto my youtube.
Maureen (43:04):
I thought, it might be like my xypharm maybe or
something goes either.
Alesia (43:10):
When you were talking about the USDA and just all of
it, I kept thinking about avatarand everything being
interconnected and you killingthe birds, and it was like it
just felt like this isn't thearmy in avatar, that like goes
on the next time the natives andstuff yeah, yeah, and um the
tree, the tree well, you knowhow many years ago did they just
(43:34):
place the indigenous peoplefrom the lands, and the most,
how do you say the the largestnumber of people that use a park
are indigenous or Hispanics,and so what are they trying to
do now again?
Maureen (43:47):
just place the people that's exactly when that
playground um closed down in2020.
When they closed off, like youknow, it's down and they never
opened that one back up.
I was like that is specificallyto get the Mexican population
out of the park, because that iswho was always at that park,
right, as well as those lowriders, because I used to bring
(44:08):
my kids there every sunday.
It was so much fun and, yeah,ever since 2020, they, they did
whatever they could.
Alesia (44:16):
They just stop all of that, yeah they want to take out
the turnaround route.
That means low riders don'thave a place to turn around.
That's part of our culture andto, to, not um, it's
gentrification.
I don't know what to sayracially motivated.
I mean that there's certainpeople in a nonprofit that are
(44:38):
not of, um, are descent and um.
Somehow it seems like they aretargeting us for displacement,
along with the birds, which isnot a continuation, segregation
or a continuation ofconversation.
Yeah, never ending, never ending.
They want to bring back a thingat the tannery ditch, which was
(45:00):
a confederate.
Why do we want to bring backanything that?
Maureen (45:03):
has to do with you know , confederate.
Alesia (45:06):
You know there's a lot of things that they're more
worried about than you know.
The people and just everything.
Whatever was planned in 2017needs to go out the door.
We're in a new day, new age.
No water, no air to breathe.
Come on, people, so somemiracle happened.
Angela (45:26):
What would you agree with what you see, if you feel
the.
Maureen (45:30):
The river is definitely slumable.
Yeah, it's okay, you just likejump in the water.
We came across a I came acrossa picture I'm like I think it's
the senator near the red ivywebsite and they had a bunch of
light bulb images and there wasthis postcard of the river and
the guy wrote and he's writingto somebody outside senator, and
he on he was like every day ofthe year people are bathing in
(45:53):
this river, the watertemperature and effort changes.
We can walk all along andthere's just kids of all colors
just swimming around with littleducks all over, right, and that
was like 100 years ago yeahsomething I'm like that's so sad
well, bracker ridge, I forgetwhat year was, it was the early
(46:17):
1900s.
Alesia (46:18):
He said he had to go because he killed his child.
They had over drilled the, theaquifer, and so it was dry.
The blue bull was dry, and sothere's only probably five
percent, as somebody told me.
Five percent somewhere in there, maybe I don't know how many
percent of spring water thatcomes down river.
Maureen (46:38):
The rest is the effluent water uh, yeah, yeah,
yeah, because I like yeah whenyou go to the blue holes it's
right.
Yeah, I mean my kids likewalked down on mud and then it's
just the almost creek where thebroke water starts and like
this used to be like the mostsacred spring, popping up what
like 20 feet into the air orsomething um the wetland
(47:00):
colonizers.
First came here and now nothingnothing comes out of.
It has to be the almost creekthat's still in the hole, right.
Alesia (47:09):
Well, they over over drilled the all the aquifer
because of all the golf coursesand everything else.
Maureen (47:14):
So you know well, thank you, alisha you're welcome,
thank you so much for coming onour first podcast, yay thank you
, how's my water?
And then yep, like we come backagain someday.
Doesn't show that there will bemore development there isn't
more to come.
Alesia (47:34):
I haven't seen yet.
As the cosmos connects the universe, water
connects life.
At the Cosmic Water Podcast,we're exploring the history,
mythology and future of thesacred land known as San Antonio
.
Angela (00:23):
Hello and welcome to Cosmic Water Podcast, our first
episode.
I'm so glad to have AliciaGarlock here, aka Bird Lady, as
she's lovingly known, and let'sjust get started.
So if you could start bytelling us how you became an
advocate for wildlife?
Alesia (00:44):
Well, when I first moved to San Antonio, it was not much
for me to do here and a blinddate actually showed me the
egrets in there and saidBrackenridge.
And so, of course, that blinddate went out the window, but
the birds were still in my heart.
And so I started watching themback in 2014.
(01:04):
And in 2014, I had complainedabout them and I was on the news
, you know, but I didn't know.
So by 2016, I was learningabout the birds and becoming
involved with rescuing you know,injured or sick birds.
(01:24):
So Brackenridge is a place thatmany people go to, and the
birds nested their migratoryegrets and herons for part of
the year, and I found that itwas something of a challenge to
watch them and to try to get apicture that nobody else had,
(01:47):
and people would ask me how didyou get that picture?
Because I sat there for likehours and so I have a condition
that is irreversible, and so,instead of pain management or
pain sorry medication, I usebirdwatching as pain management.
Birdwatching has been found tobe good for your health.
(02:08):
There's research by Dr DanielCox of the University of Exeter,
who says birdwatching nature ingeneral is good for your health
, making cities healthier,happier places to live.
So I found my happy place inBrackenridge Park with birds and
then, of course, all the peoplethat I met while I was watching
the birds photographers, myfriends, you know everyone, all
(02:32):
my friends are from the park andI learned that these birds come
from as far away South America.
They fly up here to nest tohave babies, to keep their
species alive, and the problemis there's a lot of
misinformation out there aboutthese poor birds.
You know, they poop well, yes,so do dogs and cats, but these
(02:54):
birds come to nest, they havetheir babies.
There is a high mortality rate,sadly for all of them, so it
really every baby counts, youknow, because they don't know
what their future is.
We're in a severe drought rightnow, and so what happens when
they migrate south or north andthere's no water source and
(03:16):
they're going to die.
And that's the problem thatwe're facing.
Not only you know wildlife, butus as humans.
But the birds were my painmanager, my challenge to get out
there and to learn about natureand to try to make a difference
(03:37):
and teach people.
Especially, a lot of peopledon't know that these birds,
like I said, they come from asfar away, south America.
There are three species inBrackenridge Park that are
listed as species of greatestconservation need.
The state gets federal funding,mandated by Congress, to
protect those birds and theirhabitat.
And they're not.
And the yellow sorry, the snowythe little blue heron and the
(04:04):
tricolored heron.
The tricolored heron is aprotected bird in Texas and nest
here.
Only eight birds came to nest.
Well, eight nests, so 16 birds.
But you would think the citywould be like protecting those
birds and they definitely justlike we just went them out of
there.
The little blue herons arelisted as a species, of high
concern, by the Fish andWildlife Service for the
(04:25):
declining populations.
They're going to becomethreatened, probably in the
state of Texas in the nextcouple years.
In Florida and in Louisiana theearth threatened species and so
the problem that's happeninghere in San Antonio is the city
has destroyed multiple habitats,trying to chase these birds
away without even making anykind of attempt to learn more
(04:47):
about the birds, the speciesneeding conservation, or to try
to help keep that species going.
You know what I mean when youdestroy eggs.
That's a viable embryo and wehad some not those species, but
other species that were nestingthis year and they were
(05:09):
destroyed in the park.
And you know why.
Why are we, the city of SanAntonio, hiring a contractor,
the USDA Wildlife Service, tokill our birds?
You, know, and this is allhidden from the public, you know
they say, oh, the USDA is,they're helping us, you know,
manage.
No, they're a hired contractorand they are contracted to kill
(05:29):
wildlife.
And that's the misinformation,the misrepresentation of
information from our city thatthey're saying oh, we just want
to move him humanely andnon-lethally.
No, then you wouldn't havehired a killer to come in to
destroy a nest Bible 8 is aliving embryo or kill adult
birds, you know.
Maureen (05:49):
But and so this also happened at Elmendorf and
Woodalon Is that when this wholekilling of birds and destroyed
again, it started.
Alesia (05:59):
The assault I was I call it an assault on the bird
started in 2018 at Elmendorf,where they said the cattle
eagles were a threat to planesWhile they were advertising.
There are 50 bird strikes ayear.
Well, those are other species.
Oh, the cattle eagles.
You know they're going to makea plank of that.
Well, there was only eight birdstrikes with cattle eagles in a
(06:20):
10 year span.
So there's a lot ofmisinformation there.
The water quality they said wasbad was actually information
from the USDA.
It wasn't from our own riverauthority.
So they facilitated that whole,got to get rid of the birds,
you know thing.
But when they got the initialwork document for Elmendorf,
(06:41):
they revised it to include allother city parks and from then
we knew, I knew they were goingto go from park to park and then
Elm Woodalon Lake Park wasadded next.
And then I'm a bracket Rach.
Maureen (06:55):
When you say USDA it's a man and it wasn't the river
party.
So what you said?
Alesia (07:02):
right.
So the USDA Wildlife Servicesthey have like an animal plant
and a fess animal plant andsomething I don't remember how
to say it exactly, but they havelike research and stuff that
they use.
Well, the city, instead ofusing our San Antonio River
Authority water information use,the USDA's was saying the birds
(07:23):
could have this or that.
Maureen (07:25):
What is up with the USDA?
They do this around the country.
Alesia (07:28):
They do it around the country.
They're paid a contractor.
People hire them to killwildlife.
That's what they're.
They're paid contractor andthere's research out there that
they do treat animals inhumanelyand cruelly and they hide a lot
of information and misrepresentinformation.
(07:49):
I mean there's a lot of studiesout there.
Animal Legal Defense Fund hadto sue them for open records
because they wouldn't releaseother records, and that's the
same thing here that I've dealtwith is that our city is hiding
open records.
I know what's going on becauseI've followed these words for
six years.
The thing is the public has aright to know, especially if
(08:10):
it's public funds.
You know, but the planobviously was to go from
Elmendorf to Woodlawn, toBracken Ridge.
They also shot them away fromsomewhere near Blue Star and
some other area of town andpretty much they've hired them
to go around the whole city andthey're like well, they're
telling us, you know they'rehelping us manage.
No, they're a paid contractor.
(08:32):
You paid them and you tell themwhat to do.
Obviously You're in charge.
Right, the city who hired youis like them, lawyers.
And I don't know if y'all werein the park over week Easter
weekend but the USDA wasshooting explosives over the
public and there weren't anybirds already in there to be
shooting at the.
But over the bird, yeah over thepublic, and so my thing was
(08:54):
like well, why are they doing it?
Because the city would have hadto tell them Yay, or stop it
for the weekend or not, but theyobviously told them do it
Because they did it over theweekend and I have video that I
have video from 2017 of thebirds nesting in Bracken Ridge
mark, and so there's a lot ofstuff when they say, like the
(09:14):
birds are, oh, their poop is ahealth hazard.
Well, how is it a health hazard?
Is it?
You touch it, you eat it, youplay in it?
How is it a health hazard?
So there's misinformation there.
There is stuff online that says, obviously, like any poop
pieces, whatever, you wouldn'ttouch it because there is
bacteria and it's just like ours.
The water quality of BrackenRidge has been said to be
(09:38):
contaminated because of thebirds, but it's only 16% avian.
That's what you're words theother 84% so it's a lot of
misinformation about these birds, about you know, they're poop
and and they're they make a mess, and others too many.
Well, the city Corraled theminto Bracken Ridge last year by
(10:00):
destroying all the otherhabitats and chasing them away
From Woodland, elmendorf and whoknows where else, so they
created the problem, but theydon't want to own up to the
problem.
And I don't know, when therewas a city council meeting the
other day and some guy from theNature Conservancy I'm sorry I
do not Back that organizationbut he said we have to do that
(10:23):
they were going to deal with theeager problem.
It's not an eager problem, it'sa man problem, it's a human
problem because we're destroyingso much habitat around this
city.
You know that we are drivingthese animals into public areas.
I don't know if you rememberthere was a wild boar that was
in a golf course on the otherside of town and the guy said I
(10:47):
forget what, what company wasthat?
Because of their losing habitat, they're coming into the city.
I've seen a Turkey in inBracken Ridge Park.
I've seen a coyote but youwouldn't think what's a coyote
doing in Bracken Ridge Park andit's because they're losing
habitat.
You know, you hear of peopleseeing these wild animals that
you don't normally see in theirbackyards because of where the
(11:10):
city is allowing Destruction ofso much habitat or in a crisis.
Our climate is ridiculous.
We're in a air quality ismoderate and unattainment, we're
a severe drought, we're heatisland and we're losing these,
these trees that we need a lotto live, and so you know these
(11:31):
birds.
They fight every year to nest,and it's to keep their species
alive.
It's not just like, oh, we'regonna come poop and make you mad
.
No, we're trying to stay alivebecause if they don't
successfully nest Every year,they're gonna decline and then
they'll become threatened andendangered, extinct.
Maureen (11:51):
When they come from as far as South America up here, do
they?
Do they go further, like a centon just one of the stops.
Alesia (12:00):
Yeah, so the yellow crown night herring is one that
comes from South America andthey go all the way up to New
Jersey, where they're consideredendangered I think threatened
or endangered but they gothroughout the United States.
So they all come North for thissome to breed, and then they go
south for the winter normally,but because of our climate
(12:21):
crisis or climate change, someof them are staying around
because it's so warm here, youknow.
So we'll see what happens withthis winter, because I think
somebody said it was gonna be aEl Nino or something.
Yeah, so you know, these, thesebirds are just like us, you
know.
They're trying to survive.
Maureen (12:42):
And I'm curious is it like the wildlife USDA wildlife
services that somebody can seethat is kind of around the
nation right one, a lot ofdifferent kind of species, or do
you think that they like aretargeting like egrets and they,
the USDA, has a long list of allkinds of species of wildlife
(13:06):
that they take care of.
But they take care of right,which is kill right now or
they're dealing with.
Alesia (13:12):
There's a lot of ghost killings around the nation goose
killings, and they do ducks andOther stuff, like I know there
was one city that where theyRemoved ducks and they said
we're gonna take them to thesouthern lake.
Well, if they're migratorythey're gonna fly back.
So they obviously killed theducks, you know so they wouldn't
(13:33):
come back, but they go aroundthe country.
They are hired to kill wildlife.
You know they say they're tohelp.
But is it mitigate theconflicts between humans and
wildlife?
No, yeah they say their missionis to Work to, like, make it
(13:53):
better whatever environment.
I don't know, but they say it's.
They use millions of taxpayerdollars every year to do their
work, and a lot of it I meanthey do.
It's not related to the USDA,like doesn't poultry and all
this stuff?
This is a different one,specifically for wildlife, both
(14:15):
under the west right, correct.
I don't know how far back awaybecause I don't.
All I all I research when Ilook up something is USDA kills
birds and it'll pop up all kindsof stuff.
All kinds of stuff, yeah allkinds of articles about them,
killing wildlife, and so tothink that our city of San
Antonio is not having wildlifekilled is like naive or just
(14:40):
Dotto mom sorry.
Maureen (14:42):
Your articles that San Antonio was proclaimed by the
state as the birds, yeah, yeah.
Alesia (14:50):
Yeah, they submitted for bird City Texas program which
is supposed to include publicengagement and also Involvement
in like, say, like conflicts,that they call these birds a
conflict.
Well, the conflict is becausethe humans of birds has
destroyed their habitats andhurt what is it Corraled them
around, you know the city tryingto get rid of them, but they're
(15:12):
supposed to include the publicand decisions and Education and
stuff for these birds andthey've not.
So I'm sorry but they don'tdeserve that bird City Texas,
you know, status or whatever,because they're not bird
friendly in the city's claimingthat it's not about the tree
removal and that's not about thebirds.
Angela (15:34):
But he is, across from the Conservancy is where they
used to, you know, have abasically a roofery right, you
know, and then they drove themout with the explosives and the
wood knocking which drove themto be the following year to
gather all over there by thewitty To give this presence.
(15:55):
That it's, it's a hazard, oryou know, when they, when they
take them away from where theywere, across from the
Conservancy, over that's notwhere people were hanging out.
They allowed the birds togather there.
You know that under those treesthere were that they're gonna
remove.
You wouldn't really see toomany people there because they
were only here.
For how long do they sit around?
Alesia (16:13):
It just depends, but they would normally historically
come in April and then theywould leave like by August Right
soon as the chicks could go.
But in that plan for blackmatchbark we did have an email found
that said Removing the trees wasbecause of the birds.
Even though they kept refutingit in public meetings, there is
(16:33):
documentation that the city saidthey were cutting down these
trees to keep the birds fromnesting and in their first
Request for the historicdesigner re-commission Approval
for this project, they put inthere to to prevent work grease
from forming.
How stupid is that that you'regonna cut down a hundred year
(16:55):
old tree to keep birds fromnesting?
The birds are gone becausethey've shot at them or killed
them or something.
But we still need the trees.
That river needs those trees tosurvive.
You know there's fish in there.
I saw a bunch of baby fishtoday.
And Take out all those.
That tree canopy it's 48 treesbetween both bridges and that
(17:17):
river is gonna heat up and it'sgonna dissipate and those little
fishies are gonna die becauseit's too hot and we're gonna
have algae moves and you knowthe city talks about oh, we got
it.
You know, protect the river.
Well, protecting the riverwould include leaving the tree
canopy to give it shade andOxygen, you know, and stuff like
(17:39):
that and the plan is to have aconcrete walkway along the water
right there too, right?
Yeah, they, they haven't intheir plan that there's a
walkway.
Well, between the first bridgeand the pump house there's no
walkway.
So they keep saying, oh, we'renot gonna narrow the channel.
Well, if you're putting in asidewalk that wasn't there,
you're narrowing the channel.
(17:59):
And they keep trying to say, oh, now we're not narrowing the
channel If you add three feet ofa sidewalk of concrete To suck
to where there's nothing with noshade when you say you're
narrowing the channel and so itfloods, that's a hundred year
floodplain and it flooded, Ithink 1998 and 2004, down the
(18:21):
River Road.
They had damage to their housesbecause of flooding, so that
100-year floodplain it couldflood anytime Is what it means,
not just every 100 years.
But by them altering thatchannel, it's going to cause
flooding.
And see, they're not evenlooking at the big picture.
Is it going to cause flooding?
(18:42):
Is the river going to heat up?
Are you going to collapse theecosystem by taking out trees
that are keystone species, likethe oak trees?
There's a lot of negativeresults that are going to come
through fruition with thisproject and our city just seems
to want to ignore it.
And when the birds can go justwherever, no, next year is going
(19:05):
to be some of these backyardand then they're going to really
want to kill them.
That's why it's a park.
It's a 340-acre park, 43 orsomething, and there was some
nests in the forest and theywere like, oh, they can go nest
in the forest.
Well, those nests in the forestwere destroyed.
(19:25):
Hi by the USDA, obviously,because they were like 20 feet
up in the air, 30 feet, and wehave video of them.
Just around one nest there wasthree guys that looked like the
three stooges on an SUV or RTVor whatever.
They were literally one on topof each other knocking down a
(19:46):
nest.
They're down there.
But yeah, I have it on anothervideo.
But it's like why can't theynest in the forest?
Nobody's in there.
But that's the othermisrepresentation.
Oh, they can go in the forest.
No, you destroyed their nests.
Maureen (20:02):
No, they really don't want them.
Alesia (20:03):
You don't want them here .
And they were chasing them downRed Oak Lane, which is Red Oak
Road, which is down the otherend.
So they were chasing them allover the park.
I had a video of that guyshooting a blank 22 handgun at
them at the Whitty Museum inthat direction, and he didn't
even know who was over there.
So when you talk about hazards,these birds, the bird group is
(20:26):
hazard no.
City of San Antonio is a hazard.
They're what they allow thesepeople to do to our wildlife.
They're doing it to us also.
Angela (20:37):
I was walking over in the south end of San Antonio,
the Medina River Walkway.
I sent you those pictures.
We found a handful of nestswith the branches attached just
right there by the parking lot.
We moved from the trees andjust threw right there on the
ground.
Alesia (20:57):
Yeah, and seeing the thing they do is they do stuff
when no one's around Becausethen they're like, oh, how do
you know it was us?
Well, who else would have beenable to get up to a tree 20 feet
up in the air?
Maureen (21:07):
On a nature trail.
Alesia (21:08):
Yeah.
Maureen (21:09):
It's so evil and people are always like a lot of
people's rationalization intheir head is like if something
like that was happening, I wouldhear about it, I would know
about it and look how hard youguys fought at the Brock and
Ranch Park and still so manypeople don't really know or
believe just how bad it reallywas and that it's own government
(21:32):
doing it Right Because theyhide the facts.
Alesia (21:35):
They tell people, oh, we're trying to make it better
for the public the signs inthere.
I think we're something aboutmaking it for people and
wildlife to coexist or somethingI don't remember.
It's not a simple shit, Sorry.
There were signs of all overthe park and it's like really
coexist.
When you're shooting explosivesat the birds and us because they
(21:58):
were shooting that over us andhow is that coexisting,
Disturbing nests of birds thatonly live 6.3 years, how is that
coexisting?
How is that allowing a speciesto survive if you're just being
an ass and destroying all theirnests?
And I have a video of one ofthose USDA guys chasing a night
(22:20):
here and it was one bird out ofthe river.
He went up to it, was bangingboards at it and then he shot an
explosive at it.
Why Do you know that bird can'tbuild a nest in a river?
I mean, are you that stupidthat you don't know a bird can't
build a nest in the river?
He's trying to eat, he's tryingto get a drink of water and
they were chasing that poor birdout of the river.
(22:42):
That's cruelty.
That's inhumane, because allhe's trying to do is eat, and
it's like do these guys not takeany kind of training?
I mean, what's that's?
Maureen (22:52):
the outcome.
I'm like what are they beingtold?
Like what is the informationthat they're giving to things
like that that's OK to do.
Alesia (22:59):
Yeah, well, that's why I'm thinking the city parks.
I always say Bill Penel's incharge of this, he was in charge
of parks and that he was incharge, he was assistant manager
when he got a promotion.
But yeah, and I think they justsaid do whatever you want,
think you need to do.
They don't care what peoplehave to say, they don't.
(23:21):
They don't Even people werereporting to the police, park
police and they're like there'snothing we can do?
Yeah, you can, because theyhave to follow local, state and
federal laws for public safety.
And they weren't, because I'vehad video where they almost hit
people in the head with a ballof flame in the park and then
people were having a picnic andhere comes down an explosive
(23:45):
cartridge.
Those things fly 45 miles anhour, 130 decibels.
They can cause injury.
A blank gun can kill somebody.
We learned that the last coupleyears when somebody shot a
blank hand gun and killedsomebody.
So these guys are runningaround the park with this blank
hand gun shooting.
Angela (24:03):
They had one.
Alesia (24:06):
Yeah, it was crazy.
It was so crazy and unnecessarythis whole project.
Obviously to get the birds out,cut all the trees down is to
develop the park.
Maureen (24:18):
And this whole project goes back to the 2017 bond as
well.
Alesia (24:23):
They're saying it's 2017 bond, but if you looked at that
bond project, it said it was tofix the river walls, trails and
the restrooms.
And then, all of a sudden, theyadded all this oh, we're going
to rehabilitate the pump house,we're going to knock out the
bottom, we're going to take outthe turnaround road, we're going
to take out parking spaces,picnic tables None of that was
(24:44):
inside a road.
Angela (24:44):
No, that was not in that bond project and you were
involved with that bond projectright?
Alesia (24:48):
No, I wasn't, but we had people that were on those
committees and they have norecord of tree cutting, roadway
being taken out, water beingbecause they want to divert
water, redirect surface waterand so all this stuff that
they're adding in there thatcosts money.
Why is the public being forcedto pay for this stuff and we
(25:12):
won't even be able to use it?
Maureen (25:13):
Well, do you know what about bonds?
I just have to rant about thisBecause when I really researched
into it because it was bondmoney that were either soapworks
or we were all gettingdisplaced a bunch of money was
going into that.
So I did a bunch of research onbonds and it's actually the
greatest investment for richpeople to make because you are
(25:34):
guaranteed to get the money backwith interest via the taxpayers
.
So all bond money comes fromthe city or whatever government
entity going to all these richpeople and basically soliciting
funds and saying we'll pay youback over this period of time
(25:55):
with this much interest, and allof that is guaranteed.
What's so frustrating aboutthat is that I brought up bond
stuff to the city before aboutprojects and problems and they
were like well, we have tofollow exactly what the voters
voted for, and so they're justlike oh yeah, but we can also
have stuff into it as we please.
It's so frustrating, and thenalso because it's about all of
(26:18):
the richest people in SanAntonio that pay for the bond.
They ultimately get to decidebecause they want something back
immediately, not just theirmoney and interest over time.
But whatever these projects are, they have big say in,
apparently, in changing it tooto look however they want.
You're just treating SanAntonio like they're a little
(26:40):
playground all over, and so I'malways like do not vote for
bonds.
You never vote for bonds, andeven like this past bond last
year they were voting on and Iasked one of the council members
I was like ask them where themoney comes from, and they were
just like oh, it comes frompeople who have a very secure
investment.
(27:01):
And that was all that they wouldtell them, and they wouldn't
give them the list or anything.
So even the council is justpretty clueless about where this
bond money comes from.
And yet every four years theyjust throw it out at us and
you've got to vote for the bondif you want this city to prosper
.
And it's really just a bunch ofrich people's money.
(27:21):
We're going to have to beindebted to Bracken.
Alesia (27:25):
Ridge.
Well, the project for BrackenRidge is part of a development
plan.
There's a funding agreementwith the Bracken Ridge for a
Concervency which is to allowthem to develop the park.
It says to raise money to bestewards.
Stewards how are they being asteward if they haven't fixed
anything?
I mean the restroom's fallingapart.
(27:45):
There was no paper towels inthere, basic stuff pick up the
trash, get the stuff out of theriver.
You know, maintain the parklike you would your house, and
they haven't done anything.
And so when they say they'restewards of the park, I have to
question that, because what arethey being stewards of other
(28:08):
than trying to get their project?
You know, funded agreement,whatever, to get them what they
want, and a lot of that has todo with the garden.
Which who needs another venue?
You know it's a lot of stuffthat we don't need.
Anything that was decided backin 2017 is out the door.
We're in a climate crisis.
(28:29):
We're in a drought, heat,island, air quality.
You know they want to divertriver water.
Why, you know, put it in a in adry, the second, that raceway.
They want to put water throughtheir white.
Angela (28:47):
We don't have water.
It's not even a real apsaicia.
It's going to be a facade witha pump Right To have it seem
like it's a working saki.
Alesia (28:57):
Right and like they want to uncover a dam that's over
there where they say the Lilypond.
Well, that dam, if you look atall the archeological reports,
it says for them not to uncoverit.
We're going to spend all thismoney to uncover an
archeological site or, you know,dam that they've been told
(29:20):
leave alone because it's goingto disintegrate.
So, you know, a lot of misuseof money is all I can see.
You know the USDA was paid forout of the 2017 bond project.
I have an email on that and I'msure this year the contractors
were.
They were banging boards, thefence, that fence that was put
(29:43):
up to keep the people out.
It said they wanted to keep thethose people out that you know
are bothering the contractors.
Last year I wasn't bothering thecontractors, I was videotaping,
yeah, to keep the public out.
That was meant for us.
You know, keep the people outwho uses a park, the residents,
(30:04):
and what they're working towardsI'm sure isn't going to be for
the residents.
You know that's how it appearsand that's the sad part, because
Bracker Ridge Park bequest thepark to be kept a park.
They said do not commitownership, do not alienate or
encumber it.
I consider it encumber withdebt, but I you know that may be
my.
(30:24):
I'm not sure on that, but theConservancy was saying it's
going to be $400 million for tofinish the work.
We don't have that?
And if we did, why would we?
We have roads that are fallingapart.
We have people with foodinsecurity, housing insecurity,
(30:44):
our air quality.
You know?
Water.
What happens when that aquifergoes so low and we don't have
water?
We're going to be drinking thatrecycled sewer water.
Well, some of the water isrecycled.
We call it filtered, but youknow, they're not even looking
at our current crisis.
They're just like oh, we wantour plans.
Angela (31:06):
Yeah, would you see Jacob's well?
Alesia (31:09):
I already dried up right .
Angela (31:10):
Yeah, cut from over pumping.
Alesia (31:13):
Yeah.
So you know this project isgoing to collapse, probably that
ecosystem, because withoutthose trees it's going to make a
big difference.
And then the birds you knowthey've been impacted already.
I went this morning and therewere only ducks in there in the
fence and they all looked at melike scared.
(31:37):
Some of them even jumped in theriver and I'm like, oh you poor
birds, you're scared becauseyou've been assaulted by these
USDA people for since Februaryand they don't know if
somebody's going to shoot atthem.
Maureen (31:55):
I was going to ask you.
I always wonder those peoplewho have dedicated so much of
their life and energy to thistype of work.
It's so exhausting.
What do you do for self-care?
Alesia (32:12):
Is that a true question?
Maureen (32:16):
No, so I mean, I know you said that it was like going
to the park.
Alesia (32:22):
Well, well, what we've done is we're doing research.
You know I did I did a lot ofresearch on, obviously, the
project where you know they wantto destroy all the trees, so
we're looking at how is removingthose trees going to affect the
environment.
I don't know if you've everwatched Fantastic Clone Guy on
(32:44):
Netflix, but it talks about thelittle connections between trees
and the little microorganisms,mycelium, stuff like that.
There's a whole lot of stuff onthat, and so we actually spoke
with somebody that does thatresearch and you know, when you
start messing with nature,there's consequences and, like
(33:06):
you mess with those tree rootsand their connections to other
microorganisms.
It's going to affect somethingelse.
Take out the trees, it willaffect something else us and the
, not only the birds.
You know that they want to getrid of.
Chase the birds away.
It affects something else.
Everything is a dominant effect.
But I just researched.
Maureen (33:27):
I write stories focusing on wildlife and that
like feels good for you, likefeels like it kind of like
regulates your nervous system.
Alesia (33:37):
you know Well it keeps me busy and I feel like I
accomplished something becauseI'm sharing stories, even the
facts.
The city likes has made a lotof mis.
This is our false statements.
You know there's a lot ofmisinformation and so once I
find the facts, I like to shareit, and so videos.
Maureen (33:58):
we did the documentary With all of propaganda is that
it's meant to humiliate, andonce you feel humiliated, right,
your social response is to likesort of silence yourself, and
that's what it feels like a lotof those stories from all of
these mainstream Santone Mediaoutlets is meant to do where
(34:18):
it's like oh, look at this likepoor octopus and they're wrong
for a hundred reasons from thegovernment.
Alesia (34:25):
Yeah, there's this thing called open records, and so we
have a lot of documents thatrefute most of what the city
says.
So that's why, it's like youknow.
It infuriates me because I knowit's propaganda and it's all
bullshit.
They're telling the public, butthey don't public, doesn't know
, you know how do we get it outthere?
Yeah, how do you get it outthere with all the documents?
Maureen (34:50):
Oh, you guys did so good Number that one time you
went to City Hall and we werefighting for the.
I get your center.
That was supposed to be in myneighborhood.
I saw about it, or probablythousandth of any and one of the
council members people whoworks for them was like well,
you've got, you've got to dowhat the Brock and Arch people
(35:11):
are doing.
It was so powerful.
Now you guys were able toorganize and and yeah and how
frustrating it is now that itstill didn't work.
Angela (35:27):
I mean how many people called in to that last HDRC
meeting?
Alesia (35:34):
We had a bunch of people , but that was already pre
premeditated despite all thosephone calls despite everybody
that showed up.
Yeah, because that one lady waslike I've already heard this
before, I'm ready to vote.
That tells you that they knewalready they were going to
approve it.
Same thing with Texas HistoricCommission.
They have that chairman is onthe board of another nonprofit,
(35:56):
or so called on the.
They have private interests,you know, involved in this whole
thing and they got their way sofar.
But you know there's a federallawsuit and there's a few more
to go.
Maureen (36:09):
I was wondering this lot.
This is most recent, though,that city hall, when it was a
six four vote, if not hadn'tpassed, would it not have gone
through?
Like was that vote prettymeaningful and continuing the
project?
Alesia (36:24):
No, because they were just asking for more money.
But the thing is they keepasking for more money, like
every week.
Now is it going to be moremoney.
You want more money.
How do you build a house, doyou like?
You make a contract, right, andthat's it.
You know they don't come backnext week and say, oh, we found
something else.
The city's goal is to excludethe public.
When the first in 2021, therewas a meeting there was supposed
(36:50):
to be setting up for theplanning commission, the name of
the of the like meeting waschanged to something like
totally not including BrentBrents Park.
So they I believe there was.
I, I believe there appears tohave been a a willful intent to
(37:13):
withhold information from thepublic because nobody knew about
the planning commission meeting.
When in January there were fourof us, I was one of four women
that spoke.
And then the HGRC meeting.
They tried to get that pushedthrough without people knowing.
Also, and the same thing withall these meetings oh, we're
(37:37):
doing public involvement.
No, you're not, you're, you're,you're just letting us talk and
you're not doing anything.
At that city council meeting inlast month, you know I said oh,
you know we've reached acompromise.
There's no compromise.
Y'all all said you know you'regonna do what you're gonna do
and you don't care what we haveto say.
You've shown us that by goingforward with this project to
(38:01):
destroy 48 trees in one sectionof the river, you didn't save
any trees.
You haven't done anything forthe public.
You know they're all worriedabout these non-profits, these
private stakeholders.
You know who uses the park, thepeople yeah, yeah, that's what
they always say.
Maureen (38:21):
That's, that's that's their definition of stakeholders
is non-profit organization welldevelopers yeah, yeah, yeah.
Their idea of communitystakeholders is these non-profit
organizations and they're justas guilty, right?
Because they say that, oh,we're a voice for the voice
voice and it's like no, you'renot like you, they have a voice.
(38:45):
And so how do we get to them,like that should always be.
The question is, how do we getto the people and hear what they
have to say?
But, yeah, you're right, andthat they, you know.
It's very deliberate yeah, it'sdeliberate.
Alesia (38:57):
It's like they they don't care what we have to say,
they want what they want to.
Maureen (39:01):
And what if you woke up one morning 10 years from now
so it's 23rd and a miracleoccurred in those 10 years and
everything just is exactly howyou the dream it would be?
What does that look like andhow do you think that we got
(39:21):
there?
Alesia (39:23):
oh, if it was a dream, the dream would be that the
trees at Brackern Ranch Parkwould be safe from demolition,
that the park would be made forthe people and the people would
be involved in the the decisions.
Right, we would actually bethere.
You know, this is what we want.
The playgrounds been emptysince 2020 because they they're
(39:47):
going to destroy it.
They don't tell people that.
Why is that playground closed?
So the city would listen to us.
We're their boss.
They keep saying it's your city, your park.
Well, yeah, if that's the case,then why aren't you listening
to us?
So I guess in my dream world,it would be that our city would
be actually, you know, theemployees that we would want
(40:10):
them to be and they would dowhat we want and not be focused
on.
These developers, you know thatare looking out for private
interests because, if everythinggoes through the way they want
it, those that park's not goingto be for the public.
It's going to be privateinterest events or whatever.
And that's what people don'tunderstand that that park has a
(40:32):
rich history of a culturalconnection to the community and
what they want to do with it isnot going to be about the
community.
You know it's it's going to befor private interests and that's
the sad part, that they want tofacilitate that.
Continue to tell that lie andwe're making it better for you.
(40:52):
Not, if I can't use it and thatis probably the most historical
people's park of San Jose.
It's one of the oldest.
It's also state antiquitieslandmark.
Angela (41:05):
There's artifacts there dating back 12,000 years and
they haven't even thought ofthat so we have streaming, um,
not streaming, but we haveplaying um Alicia's documentary
that you need, um, um, and thennext, which is available on
youtube, by the way, your birdchannel okay, what's?
(41:27):
What's your channel's name?
Alesia (41:29):
I think it's AG.
Birdlink but, AG Birdlink justlook up to save our central park
to save our central park inBrackern's Park and you can find
it on there, along with herother videos.
Angela (41:41):
Um, my bird nests that are here are made from found
objects along survey sites ofthe future destruction of that
back in the park and I wanted torecreate what they're
destroying.
So that's what.
That's what those are.
Alesia (42:00):
So, yeah, I just wanted to say my dream is that we could
swim in that water again well,unfortunately it will never be,
because it's a fluid water tobegin with, meaning it's sewer
water, and then there's so muchrunoff and the zoo just charges
(42:22):
into the river miracles no, lady.
That's why they want to get ridof the birds.
A pool, swimming pool, would besafer bet and because you gotta
remember that the water heatsup, there's out.
There could be like amoebas,amoebas there's brain eating
amoebas in warm, warm water.
(42:45):
You should watch monsters inmonsters in me there's, it's on
the it's on the documentary yourlittle docs that talk about
like parasites and stuff butyeah there's different stuff.
Angela (43:02):
I feel like it's popped up onto my youtube.
Maureen (43:04):
I thought, it might be like my xypharm maybe or
something goes either.
Alesia (43:10):
When you were talking about the USDA and just all of
it, I kept thinking about avatarand everything being
interconnected and you killingthe birds, and it was like it
just felt like this isn't thearmy in avatar, that like goes
on the next time the natives andstuff yeah, yeah, and um the
tree, the tree well, you knowhow many years ago did they just
(43:34):
place the indigenous peoplefrom the lands, and the most,
how do you say the the largestnumber of people that use a park
are indigenous or Hispanics,and so what are they trying to
do now again?
Maureen (43:47):
just place the people that's exactly when that
playground um closed down in2020.
When they closed off, like youknow, it's down and they never
opened that one back up.
I was like that is specificallyto get the Mexican population
out of the park, because that iswho was always at that park,
right, as well as those lowriders, because I used to bring
(44:08):
my kids there every sunday.
It was so much fun and, yeah,ever since 2020, they, they did
whatever they could.
Alesia (44:16):
They just stop all of that, yeah they want to take out
the turnaround route.
That means low riders don'thave a place to turn around.
That's part of our culture andto, to, not um, it's
gentrification.
I don't know what to sayracially motivated.
I mean that there's certainpeople in a nonprofit that are
(44:38):
not of, um, are descent and um.
Somehow it seems like they aretargeting us for displacement,
along with the birds, which isnot a continuation, segregation
or a continuation ofconversation.
Yeah, never ending, never ending.
They want to bring back a thingat the tannery ditch, which was
(45:00):
a confederate.
Why do we want to bring backanything that?
Maureen (45:03):
has to do with you know , confederate.
Alesia (45:06):
You know there's a lot of things that they're more
worried about than you know.
The people and just everything.
Whatever was planned in 2017needs to go out the door.
We're in a new day, new age.
No water, no air to breathe.
Come on, people, so somemiracle happened.
Angela (45:26):
What would you agree with what you see, if you feel
the.
Maureen (45:30):
The river is definitely slumable.
Yeah, it's okay, you just likejump in the water.
We came across a I came acrossa picture I'm like I think it's
the senator near the red ivywebsite and they had a bunch of
light bulb images and there wasthis postcard of the river and
the guy wrote and he's writingto somebody outside senator, and
he on he was like every day ofthe year people are bathing in
(45:53):
this river, the watertemperature and effort changes.
We can walk all along andthere's just kids of all colors
just swimming around with littleducks all over, right, and that
was like 100 years ago yeahsomething I'm like that's so sad
well, bracker ridge, I forgetwhat year was, it was the early
(46:17):
1900s.
Alesia (46:18):
He said he had to go because he killed his child.
They had over drilled the, theaquifer, and so it was dry.
The blue bull was dry, and sothere's only probably five
percent, as somebody told me.
Five percent somewhere in there, maybe I don't know how many
percent of spring water thatcomes down river.
Maureen (46:38):
The rest is the effluent water uh, yeah, yeah,
yeah, because I like yeah whenyou go to the blue holes it's
right.
Yeah, I mean my kids likewalked down on mud and then it's
just the almost creek where thebroke water starts and like
this used to be like the mostsacred spring, popping up what
like 20 feet into the air orsomething um the wetland
(47:00):
colonizers.
First came here and now nothingnothing comes out of.
It has to be the almost creekthat's still in the hole, right.
Alesia (47:09):
Well, they over over drilled the all the aquifer
because of all the golf coursesand everything else.
Maureen (47:14):
So you know well, thank you, alisha you're welcome,
thank you so much for coming onour first podcast, yay thank you
, how's my water?
And then yep, like we come backagain someday.
Doesn't show that there will bemore development there isn't
more to come.
Alesia (47:34):
I haven't seen yet.
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