Astronomy Outreach with Kevin LeGore

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome to the Cosmos Safari podcast.
I'm your host, dave Farina.
In today's episode, we're goingto be talking all things
astronomy outreach with my guest, kevin Lagore.
Kevin is a pillar of ourcommunity.
He has worked throughout theindustry and many of the brands
that you may have heard of, andhe also has his own business
called Focus Astronomy Outreach,where he brings the universe to

(00:21):
the public for educationalpurposes as well as to private
events as entertainment.
So I'm really excited to bringKevin on and to help you to
understand how outreach is done,how to get involved and maybe
do some of this stuff in yourcommunity.
So enjoy as we talk to KevinLagore.

(00:42):
Kevin, thank you so much forjoining me today.
I met you a few times at NEAFand it's great to have you here
on the podcast.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
So, kevin, I know yourbackground in telescopes is
pretty vast.
You guys probably know KevinLagore.
He's a pretty prominent figurein the astronomy world.

(01:03):
He's a pretty prominent figurein the astronomy world.
What we hope to talk to Kevinabout today is more about
outreach and how.
Sharing our love and ourpassion for astronomy is
something that both Kevin and Ihave in common, but we have
different experiences that weare coming from and hopefully,
throughout our discussion today,you can glean some kind of

(01:26):
takeaways from this in your ownefforts to do outreach as well.
So, kevin, could you just giveus some background on kind of
like what got you into astronomyin the first place?

Speaker 2 (01:38):
So my mom got me a small 50 millimeter refractor
from the discovery store, whichwas owned by discovery channel
um in 1999, um, on a whim, justwas like hey, this might be cool
, as I think a lot of parents dowith a young kid.
It's like what could I giftthem?
That's just different and it'snot the same stuff.

(02:01):
Um, so that's kind of wherethat started and it took a
couple years for, I think, theinterest to really click in.
I still have that scope layingaround somewhere in pieces, but
the tube is around heresomewhere.
Is that because you took itapart to try to figure?

Speaker 1 (02:20):
out how it works.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
No, it's just I lost the mount and I lost as you do
when you're a kid no, payingattention to anything, but so I
started viewing the moon andthen probably wasn't until a few
years later, probably once Igot into like middle school, we
started talking about space,that my interest kind of peaked

(02:41):
further and I wanted to startgetting into the hobby on a
heavier basis.
So I started saving up to get alittle six inch Newtonian and
then got that, and then, youknow, that's where it took off
Got involved with the localastronomy group.
They did events like I do, so Istarted jumping right in with

(03:03):
outreach and it was really kindof like trial by fire in a way.
Um, cause astronomy events willdo that to you, where you just
have to jump in and there's 50people in line and they want to
know what you're looking at.
Um, and that's where myinterest in outreach got started
.
Um, I started volunteering at aspace museum that's
unfortunately no longer inbusiness out here and, uh,

(03:28):
that's where I met the group Ihave been working with for a
couple decades at this point.
And then covid hit and, um, theydecided to close up their
business and and then I wasalready running Focus.
Focus started in 2011.
And when I lived out in LAworking for Woodland Hills

(03:52):
Camera and then eventuallymoving to Skywatcher, was doing
my own stuff out there, and then, when I came back to Arizona in
2016, I started heavily tryingto dig into the outreach areas
out here.
And then, like I said, thenCOVID hit.
Everyone went on this hiatusand then my buddy never returned

(04:13):
to doing events.
He retired, and so I startedpicking them up and that's what
I do now as a side gig.
So I do outreach and corporateevents, which are two different
animals that we can dig into,but that's how I got started.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
That's awesome, yeah.
So my background you know, I asa kid I remember wanting a
telescope.
I remember looking at it andyou know, when they had the
science stores in the mall whereI could look at it through the
window and be like, wow, that'san awesome telescope, my dad
kind of talked about getting one.
We never did Uh and kind offell off my radar for a while

(04:53):
and I actually started reallygetting into it in my twenties,
which uh was directly related tomy job, uh, running a
planetarium.
So that was like late in lifeand there was always astronomy
there.
Earth and space science wasalways there.
But I ended up having to teachmyself a lot of this stuff and,
just like you, I ended upjoining a local astronomy club.

(05:15):
So you know, I think a lot ofmy, a lot of our audience here
on Cosmos Safari podcasts areinterested in astronomy and the
degree to which their interestis, I think it ranges fairly,
fairly wide.
So you know, what would you sayto people who are just starting
to get interested that you knowmaybe you're starting with a

(05:38):
telescope, they'd like to dooutreach, but it's kind of scary
.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
Yeah, that happens a lot.
We have people all the timethey're like do outreach, but
it's kind of scary.
Yeah, that happens a lot.
We have people all the timethey're like I have a telescope,
this is kind of neat.
They're just kind of lookingfor some way to get involved,
and I remember being that waytoo.
Astronomy is kind of a funnyhobby where it seems so
unobtainable but the minute thatyou crack the ice and realize,

(06:05):
oh, there's clubs and stuff allover that like it's super easy
to get involved in the community.
But you got to find it and it'ssure it's not one of those
things that you know you hearabout all the time.
So yeah, I would say, find alocal group and get involved.
I would also say, if you'rejust getting started, it's very

(06:27):
easy to shy away from doingevents.
I've had people show up.
My team and myself we've beendoing this for a couple of
decades, so we're prettyentrenched with the gear that we
have, and a lot of our gear islarge and impressive stuff.

(06:48):
And we get people who come outand they're like well, my
scope's not going to be likeyours, it doesn't have to be and
quite honestly, I don't wantyou to have the same thing.
There's something reallyrefreshing about having someone
who's just beginning out doingastronomy, because when you have
people attending an event like,wow, the scope's amazing, how

(07:08):
much is it?
You know must cost a milliondollars, you know the typical
stuff, um, and yeah, there's afair amount invested.
I mean, we're not really thereto talk money, but it's nice to
have someone who's new, who'sjust getting started, because it
shows to people how obtainableit is to get involved in.
Maybe, hey, I only.

(07:29):
I have one gentleman who comesout.
He came to one of our telescopehelp classes that we do usually
at the beginning of the year,had no idea what to get, came
out to a class.
We just did the basics of thisas a Schmidt this is a reflector
, this is a refractor Came in,took a bunch of notes and he
ended up buying a Celestron 6SE,which is probably one of our

(07:51):
most recommended scopes.
Now he's out whenever he'savailable and, yeah, it's not
the biggest most impressivescope.
Yeah, they're everywhere andmaybe it's not the biggest, most
impressive scope we have on thefield, but he's there, he's
passionate, he's sharing hisinterests and the views are
great and no one's complainingabout it.

(08:13):
So you don't have to have thisbig bad gear.
You don't even have to knowwhat you're really doing, and
that's part of the good thing ofcoming out to these events and
joining a team is.
A lot of times we all didn'tstart that way either.
I remember my first astronomyevent vividly.
My six inch Newtonian was on anequatorial mount.
I had no idea which way to putan equatorial mount.

(08:34):
I just popped it somewhere andthey had to come in and show me
how to manage it and I juststuck to a relatively simple
target.
They even gave me some pointerslike here's something cool.
It's this far and for two hoursat an outreach event I just I
don't remember what the targetwas.
Maybe it was the ring orsomething easy.
I just stood on that and talkedabout it and that ingrains it

(08:58):
in your head and you do thatover and over and over and you
eventually get pretty good at it.

Speaker 1 (09:04):
So tell us a little bit more about what your company
Focus Astronomy Outreach does.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
So Focus started as a volunteer program, which I
would say that's where you gotto start.
So I'm not a big fan ofastronomy clubs and it has
nothing to do with the club,it's just.
I find that what I want to dois just outreach.
I want to go out and share, andthere's a lot of clubs that do

(09:33):
that, but a lot of times it canget political and be like, well,
we're going to do this andwe're going to do that.
So I didn't need anybodydictating what I wanted to do.
I had a vision and that's whatI wanted to execute.
So, um so my focus no punintended was that um so focus
started as a volunteer program,um, which was basically just me

(09:57):
and whoever wanted to come outand share stuff.
There wasn't any money involved, nothing, it was just my own
whim.
And you start doing a bunch ofevents and building them up and
over time, a few years ago itgot to the point where I had to
make a decision on whichdirection focus was going to go,

(10:18):
and I've seen this happen witha couple different groups.
Because at some point, if youwant to keep doing outreach,
whether it's schools or whatever, you're going to have to start
carrying liability insurance,which most schools and most
resorts.
That's $2 million plus policyto set foot.

(10:38):
Now you're not paying 2 million, but that's what you have to
carry.
That's a few grand out of yourpocket.
So a lot of astronomy clubshave that.
So that's kind of the benefitof being under a club is someone
else is taking care of theinsurance.
I think.
NASA, solar system ambassadorsare the same way they're under
this umbrella policy with NASA,I believe.

Speaker 1 (10:59):
Correct.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
Um, which is great, and but if you're doing your own
thing you have to go throughall the work yourself.
So I'm out of pocket.
We'll just say almost threegrand right at the beginning of
the year.
I can't carry that.
So sure.
That's where I had to make adecision.
It's like am I going to becomea nonprofit and raise money to

(11:23):
pay this stuff or do I become abusiness?
And I had to talk to a fewfinancial experts some friends
of mine are attorneys andfinancial people and they
pointed me in the direction ofdoing business.
And the reason I chose abusiness was I could pick and
choose which events I was goingto charge and which I weren't.

(11:47):
And I could say this is avolunteer event and there's no
money transferred, or it's apaid event.
And we've gotten flack before.
I did an episode on our what'sup webcast for sky watcher about
this topic and we get someflack that, oh, you're charging
for astronomy events.
That's a very capitalisticapproach.

(12:07):
It's like, well, yes and no,because for a long time I was
very like you shouldn't trademoney for events.
But over time it becomes prettyprominent that if you want to
grow your program and offer coolnew things and do literally
anything, you have to have moneyto back it.

(12:28):
And is that money going to comefrom donations?
Is it going to come fromcharging events?
Where's the money coming from?
Because a lot of us, includingmyself, could probably say I
don't have that kind of incomethat I could just throw
thousands of dollars to the sideto keep this going.
So at some point you become bigenough to where you have to

(12:50):
make the decision of OK, I haveto have insurance to go to a
school or whatever.
I can't keep doing this becauseyou're hitting the ceiling.
You have to make that decisionof how am I going to do this
Because an insurance company,when you approach them, they're
not just going to be like ohyou're a person, we'll insure

(13:10):
you.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
They're like well, what are you?
You need to be a business.
That's kind of where CosmosSafari got to.
So I was teaching primarily.
It was the main way I got intoit.
I joined the local astronomyclub.
I did six years as president ofthe local astronomy club.
We did tons of outreach events.
I very much enjoyed it.
I got lots of experience andlots of education from my group

(13:34):
that I worked with.
I owe everything to them.
But you know, I have a smallfamily or a growing family now,
and at that point, you know, sixyears ago now, I had to make
that decision.
Do I want to continue to do theoutreach, neglecting my
responsibilities as a parent?

(13:54):
This is pre-COVID and do I wantto do all of this outreach for
nothing, or do I just start aYouTube channel?
I didn't even think about money, I just thought do I start a
YouTube channel and hopefullyimpact, you know, approximately
the same number of people when Ido my outreach?

(14:15):
It's just digital outreach.
Uh, and it became a thing and itwasn't planned, it certainly
wasn't ever meant to be abusiness until it, kind of you
said, got to the point where Istarted to realize, like, if I
want to keep doing this, thereare some things that I need to

(14:36):
be able to handle financially,like the podcast, right like
we're on right now.
I'm funded by our patreonpatrons, so I'll put that plug
right there.
You know, that's what keeps thelights on um and allows us to
talk with you today, becausewhat software we use to do the
podcasting isn't free, and soabsolutely completely get this

(14:59):
um and I appreciate all of theeffort that you put into what
you do, because that's why we'retalking today, because you
stand out from the crowd.
And I think the work that you dois awesome and I'm interested
to learn from you.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
Yeah, I've had a lot of people.
There's a lot of people thatstill help me today that you'll
never see on a webcast episode.
That's just not their styleRight.
They don't get nearly thepraise that they've done.
But I have a whole secondfamily that has helped me over
the years and still helps me,and I try to give back to them

(15:36):
as much as possible.
But I could not be where I'm atwithout the people in front of
me.
I think it was even I I thinkit's Isaac Newton's quote where
you have to stand on theshoulders of giants to get where
you're going, and that's how Ifeel about a lot of these people
.
Even when I was younger, Inever gravitated to people my

(15:58):
age.
I gravitated to older peoplejust because I resonated more
with them.
Maybe it's the old soul kind ofthing, just because I resonated
more with them.
Maybe it's the old soul kind ofthing All my friends are older
than I am and that's what.
I've always known.
Maybe it's kept me out oftrouble.
At the same time, I can't dothe same about that.
But yeah, I have a lot ofpeople to thank Every day.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
they're out helping or doing, supporting me in
whatever way, shape and form,form, so kind of in that same
thread.
You know you said you havepeople that are your support
system in the background.
Um, I think it's important forpeople who are kind of like
where you're at, where you're,you know you're, you're very

(16:42):
much a pillar of the community.
At this point.
When have you experiencedfailure?
How have you learned about it,and can you give us some
examples of where that failureoccurred and you had to figure
out how to kind of push throughit and what that looks like?
Because I think a lot of peopleare probably, as they're
getting started, feeling thatlearning curve.
I know, I felt it and it'ssometimes difficult and I even

(17:08):
get it now.
You know it's not evennecessarily just a learning
curve.
That's for newbies.
It's a learning curve forpeople just to maintain and keep
up because it's moving so fast.
So you just give us someexamples of where you you failed
and how you came about gettingthrough it.

Speaker 2 (17:23):
Yeah, so I think one of the biggest.
I was watching a podcastyesterday I don't even know who
it was, but it was like apsychologist or something like
that where I think in theirterms it was just a random thing
on YouTube, but their termsthey were talking about like
addiction, but it kind ofresonated on a like you're
saying with failure, where ifyou try to overcome whatever the

(17:47):
issue was as a whole, you'llnever get it done.
So you need to.
He talks about reducing,lowering the bar, and not in a
negative way, but you have tolower it to where it's
achievable for you.
And then you it's just stairsteps where you hit this gold
and this gold and this gold andthis goal, and it just

(18:09):
progresses.
Um failure, though you got to bewilling to take no as an answer
, and you're going to get a lotof people that say no, and I
learned that early on, and myinternal motto is the worst
thing they're going to say is no.
So if you need someone to back,you ask.

(18:30):
Some of these companies arewilling to back people and maybe
donate equipment if they're inthe position, but be highly
aware that they're probablygoing to tell you no.
So those are like littlefailures at that point.
What are?

Speaker 1 (18:49):
some other failures.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
They, you're saying like people who you're looking
to do outreach with, or oh no,this is when I was early on, I
had visions of what I wanted todo and I needed the equipment to
do it.

Speaker 1 (19:03):
Got it.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
So I needed to go ask companies to support me with
equipment and a lot of them saidno, because they're going to.
You're going to being on theother side of it.
Now, if you ask us, we needlike a resume or a portfolio of
why are we going to cut moneyand give you equipment and I
need to make sure you're notjust going to flip it and do all
that kind of stuff.

(19:24):
So right when you're gettingstarted, a lot of people are
going to tell you no, um, sothat's, uh, an early failure
kind of a thing is you have tobe willing to just accept no and
then go find another place andkeep trying um, I will say,
getting to where I am going on amore personal level, which I

(19:47):
haven't actually talked about indepth publicly other than
within the people who know me,but eventually you put so much
effort into something that itcan take away from other
important things in your life,from other important things in

(20:10):
your life.
Um, so I got divorced in 2022and, looking back, it wasn't
smooth sailing, but it couldhave been way worse.
At the same time, um, andthere's a lot that came from
that and you have to reflect onit's a two way street with
something like that, and youkind of have to take inventory
of, like, what did I do to getmyself here and maybe I focused
too much on doing this.
There was a lot of other thingsthat happened which I'm not

(20:30):
going to get into details about,but I could see where it's like
.
Maybe I put too much effortinto this career and I wasn't
present and this, this and this,and because you have to
remember when you're out doingevents.
That's your time.
You are making a decision toput time into this, but what
other things could you be doingwith that time?

(20:52):
Are you a parent that your kidsneeded to be there?
Does your spouse need you to bethere?
You're investing your time andthat comes at a price somewhere,
so maybe you're retired andyou've got tons of time, but so,
failure wise, I think that Idon't know if I would make that
a full failure, but I could seebits and pieces where I spent a

(21:14):
lot of time hyper-focused on aparticular goal and maybe I
wasn't present to where I neededto be present in certain
aspects of my personal life atthat point and I think that
happens with a lot of people whoare very driven and targeted on
what they're trying to achieveis sometimes you can't rattle
yourself loose from that, and Ithink I think I can say this

(21:38):
with some level of confidencethat that this particular hobby
tends to be attractive to peoplewho have similar personalities
to what you're describing, right, Like I think a lot of us are
very hyper focused on on that,and perfectionism is a thing
that we all struggle with Maybenot all of us, but I certainly

(22:00):
do, and I have the same samekind of things.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
Mrs cosmos safari is in the background right now.
Uh, yeah, somewhere with mykids, uh, making sure that we
can do this here today.
So here's my plug.
Thank you, uh, for that.
Like it's, it does take awaytime and but, but we believe in
what we're doing here and that'swhy we're so passionate about
it.
Um, so I thank you for sharingthat, though I mean, that's a.
It's very meaningful to thepodcast that we can be so open.

(22:28):
We had talked a little bitabout.
You know, when you are tryingto organize outreach outreach

(22:49):
right, you said the verydifferent animals between public
and like educational type ofstar watches versus these
corporate events that you do.
Can you kind of like I'd liketo steer mostly on the side of
the education stuff today?
Yeah, could you just touch onthat other aspect of it too,
because it's foreign to me?
The outreach part for theeducation is where I'm kind of
comfortable with, but I justlike to hear about how do you

(23:09):
prepare?

Speaker 2 (23:11):
Yeah, so usually I'll , you know, I'll get an email
from someone.
I don't throw my phone numberout there, I just like having a
digital track of everything.
Once I've got connected withwhoever I'm going to work with,
then I'm not secretive about myphone number, about it.
It's just I like to have thatinitial hey, let's look back and
see what we were talking aboutkind of thing track records.

(23:32):
So normally I'll get an emailfrom somebody, whether it be an
educator or an event planner orwhatever.
They start out pretty much thesame way.
It's an event request andusually it's like hey, I heard
from an event planner, or we sawyou at this event or whatever.
Somehow they found us.

(23:54):
And then from there usuallyit's okay, what dates are you
looking for?
What time of year?
Usually we're trying to figureout how the big things that you
want to figure out whenorganizing an event are how many
people Roughly, the date andtimes and maybe what the goals

(24:15):
are, and a lot of times with,like a school or something like
that, more public, it's a littlebit more loose.
So it's like, ok, I'll look atthe calendar, being like, well,
we'd like something in march.
Okay, fine, um, well, let's dosomething.
On this day I try to pick alittle bit of a moon for the
public because it's it justlooks good, um, and then I'll

(24:38):
tell them what the availablebest times for viewing are and
then ask if that works.
Sometimes they approach you andthey've got a lot more
structure, like science nightsat a school or a museum.
There's more structure that'slaid down like hey, we start at
this time, we end at this time,and you just kind of insert

(24:59):
inside of the framework they'vealready built and then from
there I kind of figure out whatdo we need to bring for
equipment?
Usually I figure out we've kindof figured over the years that
you need about one scope per 50people.
That way you're not waiting inlines all this time.

(25:21):
But it also depends is thereother activities going on?
Like a museum?
It's like, oh, we have thisactivity and we have this and
this.
So they're not all just aroundthe telescopes.
Some events they are.
You're the lead portion of that, but every event is a little
bit different.
But yeah, that's usually it.

Speaker 1 (25:45):
And then there are other people that you work with
for these events generally, oris it mostly just yourself?

Speaker 2 (25:54):
I organize everything with whatever the venue is,
whether it's an outreach eventor corporate event, whatever I
organize it all.
I have equipment to cover mostof these events, but I do have
three other people for every nowand again or more.
Um, but I have three people onmy team who helped me routinely.

(26:18):
And then we have like our outerorbit group which, when they're
available, they they come andvolunteer their time.
So, but, yeah, uh, so that'show that usually works, but
having a team of people that canassist is helpful.
Um, I don't ask.
I do ask.
It's like, hey, we're doingthis.

(26:39):
A lot of people do it, likemyself and I got started.
We just do it because we lovedoing it.
Now, the corporate side ofthings, or the private events
organized, is very similar,except now you're dealing with
an event planner and they areusually really structured.
You know the venue, you knowthe time, you know the place,
you know how many people aregoing to be there.
Those events are themoneymakers, because you're not

(27:04):
getting hired to be educational.
That's a plus that comes withit.
You're getting hired asentertainment, something cool
and unique that an event plannercan pull out of their toolbox
and like a DJ or like a palmreader, which we've had before.
Whatever unique experience, itis those you want to approach as

(27:26):
your entertainment, and that'swhere more of the income comes
in from those events.

Speaker 1 (27:35):
You're in Arizona, correct?

Speaker 2 (27:37):
Yeah, so we take advantage of the weather and
stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (27:40):
How far have you traveled to do this stuff?

Speaker 2 (27:47):
like that.
How far have you traveled to dothis stuff?
Uh, the furthest ones I've doneunder my own banner for focus
are two to three hours.
One way, um, for corporate,like we did one for lamborghini
earlier this year in the fall insedona at a really high-end
resort um, and yeah, you had thestructure, you had the place,
you knew when to be there, butyeah, you're just there as

(28:11):
entertainment.
But usually with an event likethat, um, I haven't figured out.

Speaker 1 (28:17):
Now you're cheating because you get way too many
clear nights and I always haveto plan up a backup plan.
That's what I'm gonna do if Idon't have a clear sky?
So how many?
How often is it like not usablefrom like a sky perspective?

Speaker 2 (28:34):
we did 30 events this year and I didn't have to
cancel one wow so we take.
we take advantage of it.
I have some.
I have another friend of minein Sedona.
He has a contract with most ofthe resorts up there.
He's booked every night of theyear.
Okay yeah, he makes bank doingthis stuff, but his personal

(28:56):
life is a lot different thanmine.
He has the time availability todo it, but he is out almost
every night.
Now we do have backup plans.
If I had to cancel one, maybewe did have to cancel one this
year, I don't remember.
Some of them just fall off thecalendar because it doesn't
follow through, for whatever thereason is Um, maybe one or two

(29:20):
we've had to postpone or cancel.
Um, if we can postpone and movethe date, then we'll do that.
If that's not possible, thenwe'll just cancel it.
And if it's a corporate eventand they've paid ahead of time,
then they just get a refund.
We do have a cancellationpolicy we have in place if
weather affects it.
I do have a meteorite displaythat we can bring out as an

(29:44):
alternative, which is reallypopular for, like, education
events, but for corporate stuffnot as much.
Um so you, you offer what youhave.

Speaker 1 (29:53):
And my coloring activities.
My coloring activities probablywon't fly at a corporate event.
No, you know, from like aneducation time.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
Oh, here's some coloring activities to do, you
know, and uh, sometimes theystill want you to come out
because it's just interestingand maybe you'll get something
we try to work with or I try towork.
If I know the weather's lookingsketchy, I will tell them about
48 hours in advance, being like,hey, it's not looking great.

(30:21):
Because normally by the timewe're in a 48-hour window you
can kind of figure what theweather for the most part is
going to look like the nightbefore, unless it's a weird
weather system and we'll workwith them and be like, hey, it's
not looking great, what do youwant to do?
And we'll let them decide whatthey want to do.
It's a lot easier to deal withcloudy situations on an

(30:44):
educational event because, likeI said, oh, we can still come
out, we'll bring meteorites, wecan still make it fun and
interesting for the attendeescorporate stuff if they can't
see a lot of times, they'll justscrap us and we'll go on to the
next thing so you're gonna haveto, like, come up with some
sort of uh, you know singingcareer, that kind of interlaces

(31:06):
it right, you can singastronomy-based songs or
something and make up when youcan't see what's going through
your telescope Exactly.

Speaker 1 (31:16):
That's kind of interesting, because I have the
opposite.
I think I probably have 30events and maybe one of them
actually works up here inPennsylvania.
That's been tough, you knowit's hard, and what we found, at
least with the outreach stuffto the public, is like people
still show up.
It'll be like raining outsideand they'll show up.

(31:39):
So we found we can't cancel.
Oh, with like, with littlenotice, we can't cancel because
they're going to show up.
And then they're like well,where are you guys?
You know, where are you have toshow up anyway.
And so what we had to do iswe've had to find places.
My astronomy club that I wentwith for six years, we had to
find a place that had an indoorfacility, that had a place where

(32:01):
you could sit, you know, um,and close enough to the public,
uh, that you know they're goingto actually come.
So it's not ideal skyconditions.
You know you're in lightpollution, yeah, and you know
it's great to want to go to thedarkest skies and in the middle
of nowhere, but nobody's goingto show up.
So it's, it's challenging whenyou're doing public outreach to

(32:22):
just get that perfect.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
You know experience to preface that with people
before, where it's like, well, Iwant to come out.
It's like, OK, what I need youto understand, especially
because I've had people askabout starting their own
business, like focuses.
I have to remind people.
It's like you're not there foryou right.
You're there for other peopleand, like you said, you're not

(32:47):
there for you.
Right, you're there for otherpeople and, like you said,
you're not in good skies.
Very rarely are you in goodskies and you can't show up
whether it's education orespecially corporate events and
be like, well, the sky sucks, sowe're not going to do anything.
It's like, no, we hired you tocome here to do this and you
figure it out.
It's like, well, the skies areterrible.

(33:08):
Ok, there's the moon, there'ssome planets, there's some
bright stars.
You just stick with your gunsand work with it and if you just
happen to get to a good sky,hooray.

Speaker 1 (33:18):
That's why I don't run a channel based on purely
astrophotography.
It's like I don't have the time, and when I do have the clear
skies, it's like, uh well, I'vegot something else going on
tonight and it never works out,or maybe I want to just enjoy it
for myself for a night.
Um, it's difficult when you westart to overlap hobbies and

(33:39):
businesses.
And yeah, I mentioned to youright before we got on here that
you know things were startingto feel like here on the podcast
, just a lot of effort goingtowards preparation instead of
just enjoying it.
So you know it's important ifyou're ever thinking about, as
you're listening to kevin and uh, talk about this.
Stuff like this takes effortand it's not always, um, you

(34:01):
know, as fun as just going outand doing it.

Speaker 2 (34:04):
So there's some days where you did like you.
You've done the podcast, I mean, you've been to Neve and
interviewed people.
I'm I do our webcast onskywatch.
But there's some days thatyou're just not on, where it's
like I'm not feeling, whatever'sgoing on.
Maybe you're tired, maybeyou're just not in the mood, but
there's some days where it'slike I, where it's like I'm just
not, and then you're out infront of people.

Speaker 1 (34:26):
Yeah, you're on, you've got to be on.

Speaker 2 (34:30):
I've talked to my buddy, trevor Jones at Astro
Backyard about this.
People just kind of expect youto be on all the time and if
you're not, they're like, well,what's his problem?
It's like, dude, I'm a persontoo.
I can't always, I can't tellyou every day like why I'm not
feeling it, but some days you'rejust not in the pocket that you
need to be in and it's.
You're just a person.

Speaker 1 (34:49):
So you drift in and out of it pocket.
Yeah, it's a relative term, yep.
So one last thing with, like,the preparation.
You've got two very, verydifferent telescopes that you
use, so can you just tell us,like, what those two telescopes
are and and and why?
I was in, we had a Facebookconversation about this Like why

(35:11):
in the world do you have thesetwo very different telescopes
and how do you know which oneyou're going to use at a
particular place for night?

Speaker 2 (35:17):
Yeah, those are just the two that are on.

Speaker 1 (35:20):
Or, by the way, sorry to interrupt, gear problems are
a later thing.
That starts to happen whenyou've got too many things to
choose from.
So don't let that be scary toyou.
Kevin's got some really coolgear.
I'm interested to know why hechooses to use what he uses.

Speaker 2 (35:37):
A lot of stuff, but I work for Skywatcher too, so
telescopes kind of accumulateafter a while, whether I buy
them or they come from work orsomething we're working on.
We obtain stuff for differentthings, but then the benefit is
I get to use them at my disposal.
But yeah, the two maintelescopes that are currently

(36:00):
used in rotation are the 28-inchF3.3 DAWB, which was custom
built specifically for outreach.
Its nickname is the largeaperture outreach telescope that
I've.
Long time ago I was at a starparty and there was a gentleman
his name's Peter I don'tArgonzano.

(36:21):
He's amazing observer.
I don't know where Peter wentand if he's watching this.
Thanks Peter.
He was so open with his 25 inchobsession.
We were at a star party.
I was this kid with a 10 inchdaub and got to look at Orion
through it and it was burned ahole in the back of my head.
So that's where the apertureaddiction kicked in.
But I've noticed over the yearsthat everyone who's ever had a

(36:43):
really big daub A you rememberthe image because it's burned in
the back of your head and Bthey're so open and welcoming
with their stuff, like they wantto share it.
It's their pride and joy.
They want to share it, and I'vealways wanted to be able to
give back on that level too,because when you look through a
telescope it's an experience.
Well, I want that experience tostick with you and the best way

(37:07):
I have found is to burn it intothe back of your head with as
much light as possible.
So I like using the big, badequipment, and it does get
costly, but they're investments.
To me, they're tools and theyare not something that I just
obtained overnight.
It's built up and thecollection has rotated all the

(37:34):
time.
So the 28-inch is the big oneand that took five years to make
, three years to do the mirror.
My buddy, scott at Star Arizona, designed and helped me build
all that.
It was crowdfunded.
I did sell some of my own stuffto help fund it, worked with
some of my friends' nonprofitsto get pieces donated.
It was a big puzzle to make ithappen.

(37:56):
So now that's an activerotation.
It doesn't come out to everyevent, especially like the
corporate events where alcoholcan be involved, and six foot
ladders in the dark with alcoholis not a great combination and
I don't want to test myliability insurance, so I have
to kind of read the room onwhich events that scope goes to.

(38:18):
So that's the biggest one andprobably will always remain the
biggest.

Speaker 1 (38:22):
Anything bigger is there was a lot of thought that
went into making that portableand usable the next run in a
trailer, correct, like you havea trailer that you pull it all
with it has a five by eight boxtrailer which, if you're getting
a big job, that's part of theexpense that you need to pay
attention to, is how you move it.

Speaker 2 (38:40):
but I started with a 10 inch jobW for DAWs and then I
got saved up and got a 16.
And that was like my scope foryears.
And then a buddy of mine wasselling his 20 inch obsession
locally, so I jumped from 16 to20.
I actually kept the two of themtogether, found I wasn't using
the 16, but use the 20.

(39:01):
And then, once I had the 20 forabout a year or two that's when
it's like I think it's time tomake the jump.
I finally had a house and stuff, so I had the foundation to
house a scope like that, andthat's where I started searching
for glass and came across the28-inch blank, thanks to Mike
Lockwood, and a lot of thingsfell into place.

(39:22):
But it was a labor of love tomake that thing possible and I
do not want to do it againbecause it was a process.

Speaker 1 (39:30):
So that's the big guy .
We had Scott from Starzono on aprevious podcast just recently
and he's a great guy yeah,scott's awesome, very quiet.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
He's funny when you get to pry him open a bit.
So yeah, so if you haven'theard that podcast.

Speaker 1 (39:46):
You definitely check that one out, because the
amazing conversations that kindof just arise from talking to
these people that have beendoing this for so many years and
like just the deep, the depthof experience that they have is
unbelievable scott's incrediblewith his knowledge of optics and
design and the things he comesup with.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
So Scott is a wealth of information, um, and he's a
great optician as well.
So he did a great job on themirror.
I mean it's it was the biggestmirror he's done to date.
Uh, it's F 3.3.
It's a cellular mirror, so itwas a very different animal and
he got it to one seventh of awave across the whole primary,

(40:27):
which is very nice.
So that's the big scope.
The second one that's an activerotation usually.
So I have.
I have a lot of little scopeslike six inch down, and but
there's two my two mostimpressive ones that are used
for events with the 28 and thenthe Stellar View 180 triplet APO

(40:50):
that replaced the Esprit 150,which I've had.
I still have it.
It hasn't seen light in a whilebut yeah, the seven inch worked
out.
Got one of those from Vic.
Thing is a frickin powerhouseof a telescope.
There is no arguing with aseven inch triplet, especially

(41:12):
one of stellar views, and thatcomes out to most of the events
because it's convenient.
I really like refractorsbecause they're convenient,
they're low maintenance, I don'thave to deal with collimation
and they're fairly easy to lugaround.
The 180 is pushing it Uhpushing it.
Yeah, it's 45 pound tube, um,but it it's never a slouch.

(41:35):
It's impressive.
It looks like a telescope.

Speaker 1 (41:38):
It draws people in it's on a.

Speaker 2 (41:41):
UAR H from skywatcher Uh currently, for the love of
God, if someone could come outwith a strain wave mount big
enough to hold that thingcounterweights, I would.
The EQ eights are amazing, butat the end of the night it's
like I don't want to lug 60pounds of counterweights in a 50

(42:01):
pound head.

Speaker 1 (42:02):
And that's kind of where I'm getting to man, and
it's.
I actually just talked to vickbecause I have the 130, um, the
svx 130, and I had, uh, myprevious job when I had an
observatory, I had the 152 fromstellar view and I can't believe
you're you're doing starwatches with a 180, like it's,
you're you're saying howconvenient and portable it is

(42:24):
and I'm thinking, holy moly, Iguess compared to the 28,.
That's pretty small.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
Yeah, the 28, I think , is easier in a way because the
28 is usually loaded and ready.
By the way, if you ever want tocome over here, the 28 is under
lock and key inside an armedgarage with cameras so you're
not just going to roll up to myhouse and pull the trailer away.
It's, it's there's.
I've had the trailer robbedonce from an event that was left

(42:53):
overnight.
The 28 wasn't taken or hurt,but they took about 20 grand
worth of other stuff out ofthere.
Oh my um.
So that's another thing.
When you're doing events, youwant to be strategic about your
equipment, and it's special.
I get very if I'm doing anevent where we're staying

(43:14):
overnight somewhere, I have tobe very aware and cautious about
how that's being stored, and sothere's security that's been
gone, gone through now to makesure the investments of all
these tools are protected.
But you want to be careful withthat.

Speaker 1 (43:27):
Unfortunate that that's a requirement.
But I completely understand andyou know I've worked with
equipment over the years thatwasn't even mine, you know
working as a teacher and I'mtrying to make sure that things
don't walk off.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:43):
And it's, it's, it's, it's a lot to manage on top of
trying to do the outreach, uh,on top of it.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
So, yeah, that's, that's crazy um but those are
the two main scopes.
Like I said, I have othersmaller instruments.
Like there's a little takahashi60 down on the floor, usually
that doesn't come out on its ownUm.
I usually have smallertelescopes paired with the

(44:10):
larger ones to compliment themUm.
So, like on the stellar viewone 80, I don't run a finder
scope but I do have a Takahashi76 piggybacked on that Um, which
is way overkill.
But the reason I havetheahashi's is I've always
wanted a takahashi, so I wasfinally in a position where I

(44:32):
could get one and it kind ofjust accumulated.
But the takahashi fluoritedoublets are my favorite because
they're incredibly sharp butthey're incredibly lightweight.
I think the 76 is like sixpounds.
So I like them because they'reconvenient and they just work
well, Did you?

Speaker 1 (44:52):
do the eclipse?
Yes, is that what you used, ordid you use a solar?

Speaker 2 (44:57):
No, the eclipse was a work event for Skywatcher, so
we were out there with a lot ofour own Skywatcher gear.
I shot this year's eclipse withthe Esprit 150.
That was actually the last timeit was out in April.
The Esprit 150 with the reducer, I think, is what I shot that

(45:19):
with.
But we had to truck a ton ofstuff out there because it's a
Skywatcher event, so we wereflying all Skywatcher gear at
that point which are no sloucheither.

Speaker 1 (45:29):
So yeah, I shot, I did visual observations with
Celestron Evo eight and I did uh, most of everything else was
done with, like a camera andlens, um, with just my, with my
DSLR or my mirrorless, I guess.
Um, but man, what a, what agreat event.
Yeah, you guys have good, clearskies for that we lucked out.

Speaker 2 (45:53):
It wasn't perfectly clear in the portion of texas
that we were in, but it wasclear enough to enjoy the whole
thing.
Um, I'm glad we were able to doit.
But we skirted by clouds andstuff like that, but we lucked
out majorly.

Speaker 1 (46:10):
Um, on that it was here, mr People in Texas right.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
Yeah, yes, um, if you were much further South from us
like we're talking 30 minutedrive, nothing they were done,
um, so we really lucked out onthat one.
But yeah, that was allSkywatcher gear, because I have
to represent the money makingbrand for me, so Kind of

(46:37):
changing pace here a little bit.

Speaker 1 (46:40):
You know we're talking about preparation, we're
talking about gear.
How do you and you said themoon is something that you try
to focus on for the education,because it's easy to see you-
know, and you can guarantee thatthey're going to see something
that they can recognize and belike.
Yes, that's what I'm looking at.
But when you're doing acorporate event especially, you

(47:03):
want to make sure that theobjects you're trying to show
people are very obvious to them.
At some level, I would imagineyou know your benefit of being
in arizona cannot be dismissed,especially, you know, in darker
areas.
But like, how do you choose anobject?
What's the criteria that youkind of put in place for

(47:26):
yourself?

Speaker 2 (47:28):
It's just kind of happened over the years of doing
outreach that you kind offigure out, especially by season
, which targets tend to workbest in the worst locations.
Because right now, as a lot ofus know, the springtime sucks
because there's no bright deepsky targets and there's no
planets that are generallyvisible right now in the spring

(47:50):
to early summer.
Those events get a little hard.
So when it comes to targets,it's just sticking to the bright
, well-known stuff, stuff,usually the brightest Messier
objects like M13, m31, m15 thistime of year, and if we're in

(48:13):
dark enough location, we'll doAndromeda, m81 and 82.
You know the big stuff likethat.
If there's a cool star,something that's some cool, like
Alberio, is a good one.
We'll do Polaris occasionally.
T Lira is one of my favoritescause it's a carbon star,

(48:35):
something that's got a littlebit of an interest to it.

Speaker 1 (48:37):
We'll stick to um, but if the planets and the moon
are up, then your goal you letthe objects I mean speak for
themselves, like what are yousaying doing to keep it
entertaining?
I don't know, is there a bigdifference between what you
would be talking about with aneducational versus a more

(48:58):
corporate or public or private?
I should say Starwatch.

Speaker 2 (49:01):
Usually educational events will do a star tour ahead
of time with the laser pointers.
If it's clear enough and it'sorganized that way, I will say,
if you're doing outreach events,that's a great time to organize
your group and go over safetyin the dark as well, because a

(49:22):
lot of people are like well,they're just going to touch my
telescope and they're going tomove it.
Well, we've never really hadthat problem.
I mean, people grab stuff butit's not, you're not like well,
they're just going to touch mytelescope and they're going to
move it.
Well, we've never really hadthat problem.
I mean, people grab stuff, butit's not, you're not going to
break it.
They're usually afraid of eventouching the scopes.
But doing a presentation whereI've seen people do PowerPoints,
I try to just keep it straightsky, laser pointer kind of thing

(49:45):
, pointing out here's the basicconstellations, here's how we
become acquainted with the nightsky, here's where some things
we're going to see tonight are.
So you're kind of laying thefoundation of what they can
expect when they come to thetelescopes and then before being
released to the scopes, becauseusually when we're doing the
talk, our team is alsofinalizing alignments and
collimation and're doing all thepre-prep for their scopes, to

(50:10):
make sure we're ready to go.
This is usually on a largerpublic event scale, but during
those presentations ahead oftime where you can talk about
who you are, what's up in thesky, what to expect, then you
can go into.
Well, why do we use red lightsand why do you have glow tape on
the ladders and how do younavigate through the star field

(50:31):
of the telescopes safely?
And after that they're like ohokay, so all of your ladders
have glow tape.
Only put your hands where theglow tape is.
If you touch the telescope,you're going to move it, which
will mean more time in line, andthen it's going to take more
time for going to move it, whichwill mean you know more time in
line, and then it's going totake more time for you to see it
.
And you know you can go overand educate people about why.

(50:55):
I hate going to an event and youjust hear someone from the
group tear someone apart becauseyou touch my telescope or you
turned a white light on.
You're not discoveringsupernovas or some distant
spectra.
You're downtown with your C8,calmed down.
You're here for them, but theyneed to respect that.

(51:17):
This is your gear, this is yourtime.
But if you make the effort acouple minutes to just go over
safety protocol when you go toDisneyland, you hear it over the
intercom like, please keep yourhands and arms inside, or on a
plane.
You know, here, here, here,it's the same thing.
They're new, they don't know.
And if they turn on a whitelight, god forbid, it's a public

(51:41):
event.
They don't know.
But now, just instead ofridiculing someone, you're there
to teach and educate.
So that's your time to be like,hey, next time turn the flash
off.
Or hey, maybe keep the lightdown, because if you get the
light up it makes it harder foryou to see.
That's an education momentwhere you can bring them higher

(52:02):
up into your level.
It's like, oh cool, bring themhigher up into your level.
It's like, oh cool.
And we've had people show upfrom other groups that are like
we went there and they justyelled at us and that's happened
a lot, which doesn't do ourlittle tiny hobby any good,
because you're scaring people.
We already have crappytelescopes scaring people away.
And then you get that and yougo to an event.

(52:25):
You scare people away becauseyou're not warm and welcoming,
and I, I think a lot of us.
At times we forget what it'slike to be a beginner.
Um, you get jaded.
Being in it, so I try to keepthat in the back of my mind is
like we have to remember thatthey don't.
There was a time that none of usknew why you needed a red
flashlight or why you shouldkeep your flashlight down.

(52:46):
But we have to be realistic tothat.
They're not going to comeprepared with everything.
So doing a small presentationahead of your event gives your
team time to get ready, givesyou time for them to get to know
who you are and then gives youtime to educate them on the
safety protocols of being aroundthe telescopes and your event

(53:08):
goes so much more smoothly withdoing that.
Corporate events are a littlebit harder because you don't
have that a lot of times, so youhave to go out of your way to
be mark everything, like we have.
Right now is a great time ifyou want to buy them.
I bought strands of redChristmas lights, just straight

(53:29):
red lights.
They're on the electrical cordreels and that's another thing
that we offer where it's likewell, we have safety lighting
that we can bring out for ourevents and we can mark trip
hazards and scopes have redlights on them, so we've taken a
lot of that.
Sorry, I'm segwaying off ofwhat you were asking.

Speaker 1 (53:46):
No, no, it's fine, it's.
This is.
This is how we get intoconversations that we didn't
plan on.

Speaker 2 (53:52):
That end up being the best so yeah, but over the
years we've kind of learned howto keep people safe.
So we have like 24 hourmilitary glow tape on the
tripods.
Some of us have it on thecounterweights, trip points, you
know places.

Speaker 1 (54:07):
These are all failures, by the way.

Speaker 2 (54:09):
Yeah, you find out.

Speaker 1 (54:10):
What you're describing is all things that
you've failed at and realizedyou need solutions for so it's
absolutely relevant to thisconversation.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
Little points.
But over the years we've foundout like, hey, I need to keep an
extra hand controller in thebox Because when you're out
doing I mean, I have 10 eventsnext month booked right now, so
that's more than some people getout in a year.
So the equipment's getting useda lot and we try to maintain it
, but you should have a backuphand controller or cable.

(54:38):
If that dies, Mark your trippoints on your tripod Cables are
terrible.
Avoid Wi-Fi devices, becauseyou've got a bunch of phones
around.
They're jamming everything.
All my ladders have 24 hourglow tape on them to mark where
you can put your hands, and weuse a big, powerful blacklight

(54:59):
flashlight to charge it beforean event.
It just makes it easier.
It's like just put your handswhere the glow tape is Done, no
conversations further.
And then if we're in a reallydark location, like I have, one
resort makes it easier whereit's like just put your hands
where the glow tape is done, noconversations further.
And then if we're in a reallydark location, like I, have one
resort that we're on contractwith.
It's very dark out there.
We mark where the trip hazardsare.
We make a path with the lightso you know where to go and how

(55:19):
to be safe.
They're all red, but yeah,that's just been.
Hey, next time we are out here,it might be nice if we have
this or this.
And, like you said, they're alllittle failure points where you
start to refine it and that'show your gear builds up over the
years.
You're like well, how do youhave, why do you have this
telescope to go up on a you knowthird story balcony to do an

(55:40):
event.

Speaker 1 (55:40):
It's like cause and now we're equipped to do it.
So there are all those littlefailure points that over time
have built up.
Yeah, rooftop, uh venue isprobably not where you're
bringing the 28.

Speaker 2 (55:56):
No uh, we, I had a resort that we did in sedona
earlier this fall and that'swhat they asked.
They're like hey, we want youto up on top of this roof and
there's a spiral staircase toget up there.

(56:17):
Okay, um, most of my gear isheavy and large.
So this is right when theskywatcher wave strain, wave
mounts are coming out.
So I got my sample just in time.
It was like, oh my God, thissaved the day, cause I can get
it up there.
But you have to work with peopleif they're requesting certain
gear from you, because I listthe equipment on the websites,
uh, for me if you want to pickwhat's coming.
But we also have to be like hey, if it's a rooftop, we're

(56:40):
limited to these things.
I can't get the big guys upthere because there's no way I'm
hauling this up a littlestaircase.
Oh, you were asking originally,sorry.
You were asking like how do wedeal with the conversation
around the telescopes?
Though there's an astronomer atevery telescope, it's usually

(57:03):
their own gear.
Occasionally I'll have someonerun one of my scopes if it's for
whatever reason, but 90% of thetime it's their own equipment.
I just kind of let everyone dotheir own thing, but we tell you
what the object is and how farit is and some cool things about
it.
At a large event, you don't haveas much time with your guests.

(57:26):
It At a large event, you don'thave as much time with your
guests.
I do find you do get littlegroups You've probably seen this
who are like really into it andthey kind of grasp onto you and
want to know more and thenwe'll start diving deeper into
the conversations.
If it's a more advanced grouplike we're working with adults
and not so much kids and we'reon a star, I'll talk to them

(57:48):
about how elements are formedinside of a star and starting to
get deeper into the science ofit and folklore and they love
that stuff.
But it's very you kind of haveto read the room on how your
group is interacting with you.
If they're really interested,go down the rabbit holes, you
know.
Show them what's up in the sky,talk about the folklore.

(58:10):
They love all that.
If they're just kind of they'redoing their thing and they
don't care, then just move on tothe next person in line.
Yeah, it's pretty much the samefor both events.
It's just you kind of have toratchet down what you're talking
about, depending on the age andinterest of your group.

Speaker 1 (58:32):
So when, from what you've talked about, you're
doing mostly visible visualobservations, but I know you
have cameras though, though, soyou do have cameras, yeah, so
how?
How is astrophotography, andmore in more particular, like

(58:53):
the more outreach, focused slash, consumer grade smart
telescopes how do you see thatkind of like working its way, or
already is working its way,into what you're doing for these
events and, um, how do youthink that's gonna play out?

Speaker 2 (59:11):
yeah, so I got seriously into astrophotography.
Right around the time I movedback to arizona from la because
I realized that I think we allknow the writing's on the wall
astrophotography is like theking of astronomy right now.
That's where all the interestis.
So, from our sky watchersperspective, it's like I need to

(59:31):
start investing my time andunderstanding on you know how do
I make this work and why isthis camera, this?
And so I got intoastrophotography.
And then from there, it's likewell, how can I utilize this for
events?
So I'd say about 2017, late,yeah, 2017, somewhere in there,

(59:52):
I started incorporatingastrophotography into outreach
events, particularly underhighly light, polluted locations
.
I would use one of our littleSkywatcher 80 EDs and a
monochrome camera and threenanometer imaging filters and
cut through the light pollution.
We were just doing livestacking, which I just called

(01:00:12):
live imaging.
That's how it started and thatworked really well and it still
does and an H alpha filter and amonochrome camera just cuts
straight through all of that.
But at the time we were using aparamount mighty.
We had to have the batteriesfor that.
I had to have power for themonitors, so we had a generator

(01:00:35):
out there and it all worksreally well.
It's great.
It's a lot of freaking work tolug all that out there, um, and
there's been some events in thepast couple of years where we've
gotten paid for a corporateevent to bring this stuff out.
You'd be amazed how many peopledon't care.
It's just well, I see it on ascreen, I see Hubble, I see

(01:00:55):
James Webb.
They just they're like well,where do I look?
And it's like, well, it's onthe screen.
They just glaze over and walkaway.
They want to look through it.
Now I know some other groups outhere that basically make their
living off of live imaging andyou kind of just have to figure
out what your signature is andwhat works for you, um, and

(01:01:16):
that's only something you cananswer and what is going to
benefit you, um.
But I've started pushing awayfrom live imaging because a it's
a ton of work and, as we talkedabout earlier, so many things
can go wrong.
It's normally the cable, um,but so many things will go wrong
and I just kind of shelved alot of that because I even

(01:01:38):
charged more for it, like a lotmore, because of the headache
and the amount of failure thatcould happen with an imaging
system.
It's like, if you think it'scomplicated, to go in your
backyard and try imaging, trysetting up that whole rig and
being ready to go by like 7o'clock for an event and then
running for two hours and thentearing the whole thing down and

(01:01:59):
leaving.
No, thank you, it's a lot ofwork, so we kind of shelved it
unless it was very specialspecific events.
There's an event we've donebefore called Camp with a Ramp
up in northern Arizona, which isfor kids who have spinal cord
injuries, so they're wheelchairbound or paralyzed Right.
So the cameras were highlybeneficial.

(01:02:21):
So, for special stuff, thecameras make sense.
For special stuff, the camerasmake sense.
However, in the last couple ofyears there's smart telescopes
have started to take over thatarea.
So I got a Seastar, an S50,from ZWO, and was like well,

(01:02:41):
this is really cool.
And for some of those specialneeds events, the Seastar now
our team I I think, has likethree or four of them Um,
they're not mine.
A lot of us have our own Cstars Um, they've been great
because it makes it superconvenient.
They're nowhere near theperformance of our big
monochrome cameras andeverything, but to be able to

(01:03:02):
just pop it out, turn it on andgo to work is very, very helpful
for special need groupspersonally did both, and both on
the same exact object too,because then you can be like
your eyes aren't going to seeall of this.

Speaker 1 (01:03:20):
That's what you're looking at and this is the
detail that you, you know cancan get with a camera and the
color you know that you can pull, know can can get with a camera
and the color you know that youcan pull out of these deep sky
objects with a camera that youreyes are never going to see.
This is what you're looking atthrough the telescope and I
think it provides theimagination for these people who
don't know what these thingslook like, the ability to like,

(01:03:44):
maybe see it better, or evenjust fill in the blanks like,
yeah, allow them to see itbetter.
You know because, for example,I was looking at mars, at
opposition during covid, and itwas one of the closest Mars
oppositions that we were goingto see in our life.
It was awesome and I was lookingat Mars and I was like, no way,

(01:04:08):
really, am I seeing what Ithink I'm seeing?
Am I seeing a polar ice cap?
I had to look at it on my phoneand I'm like, holy crap, I am,
because I looked at it on my app.
I looked at it on SkySafari,like, yes, I am looking at the
polarized cops of mars and Iwasn't sure.
And I'm, you know, an informedbackground.

(01:04:29):
This is what I do every daytype of person, not some person
who's looking through atelescope for the first time.
So I I really think it'simportant for them to get that
like secondary confirmation thatwhat they're looking at is what
they're actually supposed to belooking at.

Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
You know I'm doing both.
Let's them see both sides ofthe spectrum where it's like
this is visual, this is imaging,and this is what the difference
is.
And to be able to see that, Ithink, engages people.

Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
But the ease of use, like you said, is like, is so
important because I've done thehard way and you know I'm
actually doing some work, justvolunteering my time to some of
my former colleagues workingwith some of the equipment from
my previous job and I'm going togive them the same advice you
know, like let's go to thosemore smart telescope type things

(01:05:19):
for the purpose of imaging andlet's stick to the visual
observation in the big scope sothat you can get that dual
experience and that the level ofcomplexity that I was able to
achieve isn't necessary for themto continue to operate, because
it took years for me to getthere.

(01:05:40):
They need to work tomorrow andthat's what these new scopes are
gonna provide.
And it's really cool when youcan say to somebody like hey,
you know, that's a 350 piece ofequipment that can get you that
same exact thing on your ipadyeah, people are blown away with
it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:56):
It's right like we'll have the 28 inch out.
I've got military night vision.
That goes on.
That thing.
It's phenomenal.
Obviously, I have to follow thegovernment restrictions on using
night vision so it does notcome out all the time.
If you're going to buy one,please be aware of what I tar
restrictions are.
Um, and we'll have the little,stupid little C star next to my.

(01:06:19):
It's a $50,000 system, if youwere to price it all out.
And the C-Star is like noproblem, it's this dinky little
camcorder looking thing and itplows right through it and
people are like, whoa well, howmuch does this little thing cost
?
Like 500 bucks, yep, what?
And now they have the S30,which is coming out for three.

(01:06:41):
We have one on order becauseit's like why not?
We have eye pieces that aremore expensive than this thing
and but it engages people and itgets people in the hobby.
And it's hard because I workfor Skywatcher but I also run my
own outreach program.
You have to play both sides ofthe fence there for me, where
it's like I have to representthe brand.

(01:07:01):
But we can't turn our eye awayfrom the amazing advancement
that our competitor has broughtout and bravo, it pushes the
whole industry forward.

Speaker 1 (01:07:14):
It does really needs to exist.

Speaker 2 (01:07:16):
um, now, very recently, I finally got my hands
on an Origin from Celestron.
The one issue I have withSeastar is they're not very
impressive instruments to see.
Yes, they're just like.
It looks like a camcorder ifhalf our generation even knows
what a camcorder is at thispoint.

(01:07:38):
But yeah, for a school, noproblem.
Corporate events it's notimpressive.
I mean, it's impressive to seewhat it does, but it's not
physically impressive.
And Origin, on the other hand,is a very impressive piece of
kit.
It looks like a telescope, it'sa thing.

Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
If I showed up as a wedding videographer with my
phone, you know, it probablywould be like whoa, where's your
gear?

Speaker 2 (01:08:03):
You know, yeah, yeah, you know it probably would be
like whoa, where's your gear?
You know, yeah, yeah.
So Origin is a very niceinstrument and if you're an
organization or an educator on aserious level, the Origin is a
pretty interesting piece ofequipment to have.
They are pricey and I do have ahard time wrestling with.

(01:08:28):
Is Origin or Seastar a betterfit?
I'm probably gonna get introuble for saying some of this,
but they're just differentprice brackets for different
people.
They both perform well, but theOrigin is a more impressive
piece of instrument for us touse.
So I could bring that to acorporate event and be like, wow
, that was cool.
But moving forward, origin hasbecome our default smart scope

(01:08:51):
because of that reason.
Now we do have the C-Starsavailable.
Those are more for our specialneed groups.
But I have no plans unless youreally need the highest
resolution we're able to produceon bringing the old live stack
set up back with the paramountor the ASI air.
The origin does all of it and Ijust have to flip a dumb little

(01:09:15):
switch.
Yep, um.

Speaker 1 (01:09:16):
I haven't tried casting it to a larger monitor
yet but I have, and I have avideo that's on my channel here
that you could watch and um, youknow I've worked previously
with celestron, with origin um,just to to kind of look over it
and uh, it is, as you said, aflip of a switch, it turns on,

(01:09:37):
it, finds everything, just as soto see star, um.
But you know, I was able tocome down here to my studio, put
it on my tv, um, look at it onthe tv, mess with everything,
just just from my ipad justright to my tv.
Uh, it was fairly seamless, umthe.
The thing I think I like aboutthis overseas star over some of

(01:10:03):
these unistellars and thingslike that, is that it is
upgradable.
The camera can be removed andput a new camera in as
technology advances.
I'm sure there's othercomponents that are going to
have to be replaced and such,but you know the ability to take
advantage of optical design umis important like any.
Any lenses you know are forlike a camera.

(01:10:26):
For example, I can buy a set oflenses and put a brand new
camera body on the back of it in10 years and it's going to
perform just as well optically,you know, for the most part, and
that, to me, is what you'rebuying with that system, is
you're buying the quality of theoptics, whereas you could

(01:10:47):
probably, over that same timeperiod, buy a number of sea
stars to kind of get to thenewest of technology and bring
yourself up in a different way,and so in the end end, it's just
what do you feel is probablyachievable now, and you know how
important is it to you to kindof maintain that same

(01:11:12):
upgradeability over time, whichis a reality when you're talking
about astrophotography.
Things are going to change andum, yeah this is the least
quality we're going to getmoving forward.

Speaker 2 (01:11:25):
Yeah, that blows my mind right every time I say it,
you know I'd say if you're inthe market for live imaging or a
smart telescope and you'retrying to do on a serious level,
either corporate or outreachevents, the origin is the
must-have scope and for allthose reasons it it's easily
serviceable.
So if a camera goes down, youcan replace the camera.

(01:11:46):
Battery goes down, you can takecare of that.
If a C star goes down, what doyou do?
If the chip dies, what do youdo?

Speaker 1 (01:11:52):
And I.

Speaker 2 (01:11:54):
Yeah, which I get.
They're only 500 bucks, but Imean now I got to replace the
whole thing.
Or yeah, oh, origins got a newcamera.
Oh, awesome, I can just upgradewhat I've got.
So, and that's a big thing, ifyou're doing events as much as a
lot of us out here doing, youwear the gear down a lot faster
than other people might.

(01:12:15):
So, being able to serviceequipment easily, like when we
go into monsoon season latesummer here, just like the
professional observatories,that's when my team will stop.
We're not doing events.
It's too hot, it's raining,it's whatever.
That's our maintenance time.
So I'll take the telescopesapart.
That's where you clean them, doeverything you need, re-grease

(01:12:37):
the gears, whatever you got todo.
But with Origin, that'ssomething that is nice to be
able to do is I can take thecamera off, I can clean it, I
can upgrade the cameras, I canswitch filters out, whatever.
Um C star is a nice, fun thingto have in the toolbox, but it
is not the main live imagingsetup.

(01:12:58):
Um and for all the reasons Ijust listed, uh, fantastic piece
of kit to have.
I'm glad we have them, but theyare not the main tool that
comes out to the events becauseorigin, I mean I already have
people in my group that arelooking to get one or two, so
we'll probably have a couple ofthem here in the near future

(01:13:19):
because they're just convenienton all those levels.

Speaker 1 (01:13:22):
I've.
I've had conversations withpeople at multiple companies
about some ideas, because I'vecome to the realization that if
my ideas are in my brain anddon't get out there to this
community, that's not going togo anywhere.
I'm not going to be amanufacturer anytime soon, and
so one of the things that I'vebeen hard, you know, pressed to

(01:13:45):
kind of get out there is we needto incorporate ar into some of
this equipment and the opticalum.
You know, the unistellar hasthe optical eyepiece and pegasus
now has the optical eyepiece.

Speaker 2 (01:14:02):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:14:04):
And it kind of blends both worlds.
Uh, and I I kind of feel likethe really hardcore visual
astronomers are still not goingto be okay with it.
But I think for the rest of usand you're kind of in that
category and this is why I wantto know your opinion as a visual

(01:14:26):
astronomer is that achievingsome semblance of a blended
experience, or, yeah, I think,new?

Speaker 2 (01:14:38):
um, the new smart eye that uh pegasus is on.
I got to use the prototype.
They brought it out to starfest up in Canada in August.
I mean we saw it at Neve, but Imean it was just a thing at
Neve where star fest.
We got to see it on a scope anduse it and it's a little.

(01:14:59):
I had mixed feelings about itand I'm really good for my.
One of my best friends isworking on it.
It's a different experiencefrom a visual, both imaging and
a visual person.
For visual, you don't have thatimmediate response.
If you move the telescope youcan see it.
You can see it move when thisit's a camera, it's taking

(01:15:23):
pictures, and for imaging it'sweird because you know, looking
through an eyepiece.
So it really does blend both ofthose worlds.
Um, but I'm excited to get ahold of one at some point
because we have a lot of nice,yeah, somewhere in there.
um, it has a higher resolutionsensor than anything on the

(01:15:46):
market.
With the 533 in there, which isnice, we have a lot of nice
telescopes already in theinventory for events, so you
know, I'd like to just pop it on.
I can't imagine what that thingcould do on the 28 from a dark
sky.
Can't imagine what that thingcould do on the 28 from a dark

(01:16:10):
sky, um, but yeah it's.
I think that will be a big toolto have in the case where it's
like, well, I don't want to buya zwo and I don't want to buy an
origin, because I just don'tknow if I want to commit to a
whole system when you're done,just pop it out and put your eye
.
Yeah, you can like it.

Speaker 1 (01:16:21):
You can switch it out and put the next one in Right
Not a screw on or anything, justright in like a normal eye
piece.
Close that down, lock it downand look through it.
I'm excited to see.
I can imagine looking at themoon and having it identify the
craters.

Speaker 2 (01:16:41):
That would be really cool.

Speaker 1 (01:16:43):
Looking at the stars and and you ask it a question
and it pops up a little bubbleand a little blurb like how many
light years away it is what thenames of the stars are.
You see in the field, likepoint out where the ring nebula
is here.
It's pointing right at it andthen it pops up a little blurb
and gives you an image of whatit you know would look like.

Speaker 2 (01:17:01):
Yeah, of what it would look like in the Hubble.
Like you said earlier, you'redoing the augmented reality on
there a little bit the potentialthere.
There's a lot of potential withSmartEye and there's a lot of
really smart people working onthat thing to where I think
we'll see a lot more come fromthat vision.
I'm curious to see wherethey're going to go with it,

(01:17:23):
because there's a lot ofcapability that could come out
of that.

Speaker 1 (01:17:26):
So unistellar has come out with a binocular that's
doing that too, which is oh, Isaw those.

Speaker 2 (01:17:33):
I haven't played with them, but I saw that yeah,
those are really because I mean,how many times do you see
people with, like you know, theapps?
They're looking up at the skyand stuff?
You're already gettingaugmented reality through that,
in a way, on a digital format.
I forgot about the unistellarbinoculars, um, but yeah, those
would be going.

(01:17:53):
That's where I really people,it's just like well, what is
that it's like, unless you havesomeone there to tell you which
at an event?
Yeah, maybe you do, butsometimes you don't, or they're
busy doing something.
It's kind of cool that you canexplore and learn for yourself,
but I think that augmented stuffwould be kind of neat to see
more of.

Speaker 1 (01:18:13):
It's just an education tool, so right, right,
and have you know somesuggested content?
Maybe even that you knowrelates to it?
So maybe the Cosmos Safarivideo on how to find M13 that
you know relates to it.
So maybe the cosmos safarivideo on how to find m13, the
you know, it's amazing, theyjust once, as soon as you
connect the telescope to theinternet and to just this, this

(01:18:34):
whole ar experience.
I don't know vr is ever going tocatch on.
I personally don't find itsuper exciting, but like to me,
um, just picking and choosingwhen I want to use this kind of
technology, this is one of thethings I think for outreach.
I would really love to see itin my kit, you know, and just
play with it.
Even so, excellent.

(01:18:56):
We are at about an hour and 18minutes already.
So I want to kind of start towrap this up minutes already.
So I want to kind of start towrap this up.
So I just kind of want to justgo over some of the things that
we've talked about.
So, you know, in terms ofcorporate events and private
events, compared to youroutreach that you do to the

(01:19:18):
public, you know, I'm findingthat the themes are, you know,
just tell the story right andgive people an experience that
is an educational one, whetherthat be how to hold onto a
ladder properly or whether thatbe what the star is made of and
how it forms elements Right.
The other thing I'm hearing alot of is like things change and

(01:19:39):
you need to.
You need to kind of be adaptiveand understanding that this is
a moving target.
Is there a message that youwould like to share with the
community that you feel would behelpful and maybe inspiring to
them to share their passion ifthey're kind of on, as we
discussed at the beginning, onthat kind of cusp of?
I'm not really sure I'm kind ofnew at this.

Speaker 2 (01:20:02):
I have a telescope, maybe I'd like to do outreach,
but I don't feel comfortablequite yet like yeah, just get
involved, find a group nearbythere's got to be one somewhere
and just get involved and getyour feet wet and if, if it's
like, hey, I really like this,and you start to take off with

(01:20:22):
it, then see how much you canpush within your group on like,
hey, I want to do this and Iwant to do that.
But don't be afraid to go outthere and don't be and spend
some time learning.
Like if you're going to go toan outreach event, you know,
this weekend, for example,you're like well, I'm new, well,
this, maybe research like twoobjects, before you go out for

(01:20:45):
that night, that are up rightnow.
So it's like, well, saturn's upright now and my little
telescope will just say you'vegot like a C, six or something
like that, my telescope can seethat.
Or, and then maybe pick a D and,if there's no planets, pick a
deep sky object and learn whereit's at, maybe learn the
constellation a little bit, goout in the backyard, mess up a

(01:21:06):
few times, but just learn maybetwo to three objects that you
have as your main middle andbackup target and roll with it.
So on top of that, you'relearning the sky, you're
learning about your object.
And then when you get out thereyou've got some foundation so
you're prepped on it and youjust keep doing that and

(01:21:31):
eventually you start learningall these objects in your head
of where they're at and how farit is.
I can't tell you how many timesI've showed people m13 at the
grand canyon star party.
Hundreds of people have lookedthrough the the big dob at that
object and when people are like,how do you know so much?
It's like when you repeat it300 times a night for five

(01:21:55):
nights in a row.
It is burned into the back ofyour head so it's like it's 25
000 light years away, 175 lightyears in diameter.
It's like it's 25,000 lightyears away, 175 light years in
diameter.
It's about a million stars.
It's up here in the area ofHercules.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah.
It's because it's been ingrainedso many times, but there was
one time.
There's a lot of times whereI'm on a new object, I have to

(01:22:17):
pull up my phone and look up SkySafari and just be like, okay,
if it's an object, I don't lookat much and it's like, well,
okay, we'll pick this.
I always have my phone and SkySafari open, sky Safari Pro.
I like using that because it'sgot the most data in it.

(01:22:37):
But I usually look up how farit is, if there is a diameter,
and see if there's a coupleinteresting facts.
And sometimes you just have todo it on a whim and be ready to
go and because we try to makesure at events that each
telescope is on somethingdifferent so you're not getting
repeats.
I've seen a lot of clubs whereyou go and it's like four

(01:22:59):
telescopes out of six are on themoon or saturn or something
like that.

Speaker 1 (01:23:03):
It's like yes, expand the same object over and over,
and I saw that on that telescopefive seconds ago.

Speaker 2 (01:23:10):
Yeah, it just gets boring for people.
And obviously on large eventsmaybe you have more equipment
than you have realisticallyavailable targets, like if we're
in a big event and the moon'sup.
We usually have one telescope.
A friend of mine is very goodat doing eyepiece photography of
the moon, so he takes yourphone and takes a picture

(01:23:31):
through the telescope.
People love that, yes, so learnhow to do that.
But if it's a really busy eventand we have enough inventory
for equipment, we'll have one dothe photography on the moon.
You can also look if you want,and the other one's just to look
.
That way we can get more peoplethrough in less time.
But if you don't have that, tryto make sure each tele work as

(01:23:55):
a team.
Like, okay, you have the bigscope, so you're going to go
after Andromeda tonight and youhave a little scope over here,
but it's a wide field scope, soyou're going to go after the
Pleiades tonight and we try towork with each other.
And if someone we had a friendof mine who loved the moon, was
into Apollo, that's how he got.
So we're like, okay, stevelikes the moon and he's great

(01:24:18):
with it, so you're just going tobe the moon scope, because you
know so much about it.
So if you know someone who'sreally good at one thing, maybe
let them have that, but work asa team to look at.
Yeah, yeah, work as a team tomake sure all your telescopes
aren't just pointed to the samething, because, again, you're
not there for you, you're therefor them, and that's what I

(01:24:39):
would tell serious people whohave been in this for a while.
It's like I want to start doingoutreach.
Okay, just remember who you'rehere for.
It's not really a social gettogether to hang out with your
buddy and ignore the another 20people waiting to look.
But if you're new, just do alittle bit of research on a few
targets.
You know.
Maybe download an app, learnsome stuff.

(01:25:00):
Go in the backyard, learn yourscope.
Run it into the ground a fewtimes We've all done that but
don't be afraid to go out thereand just give it your best shot
and eventually, over time, it'llstart to really sink in.
But if you've already got atelescope and you're interested
in going out there and you'renervous about it, and you're
interested in going out thereand you're nervous about it 99%

(01:25:24):
of the people who are coming toyour event.
You are already way ahead ofthem.
You've invested in it, you havethe interest and you have the
drive.
They will love to hear whateveryou have to share with them.

Speaker 1 (01:25:38):
This is my 17th year as a high school teacher, and
one of the things that I think Ihave personally found is the
most powerful thing.
I can do is just say when Idon't know something, because
then everything I'm saying I'mtelling you I understand and
know, because if I try to justbe the prophet of knowing
everything, it gets me personalsatisfaction maybe, but when I

(01:26:04):
can say I have no idea, and thatpeople realize, like there's a
finite amount of information,that even I know about this as
somebody who's an expert on it.
And I will say that I am anexpert on this is what I've been
doing for 17 years and I stilldon't know everything.
And that's what I think a lotof people coming into this

(01:26:27):
really feel like they have to bean expert on everything and
there's nobody who is.

Speaker 2 (01:26:33):
And if they try to tell you.

Speaker 1 (01:26:34):
if they try to tell you that they are there, they're
doing it for their own personalsatisfaction.
Yeah, I've seen this a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:26:41):
Maybe you saw this during COVID.
Particularly in the Instagramside of things, there's a lot of
people that kind of came toastronomy with this egotistical
approach that I'm going to befamous by being a famous
astrophotographer and they'veall diminished and phased out.
Because why the heck would youcome here to make a ton of money
or be known for something, orbe known for something?

Speaker 1 (01:27:05):
It's like the bar is so low here that it's like dude
if you're in it for money, youpicked the wrong place.

Speaker 2 (01:27:11):
If you're passionate enough, eventually it's like it
kind of just as you found, itkind of just comes to you and
you should stop working so hardand just enjoy what you're doing
and eventually it just happens.
But yeah, like you were sayingearlier, you just you can't know

(01:27:31):
everything and it's morepowerful to be like you know
what.
That's a really good question.
I have no idea.
Let me look it up really quick,or let's look it up together,
right.
Yeah, let's look it up togetherwhat does a good source look
like?

Speaker 1 (01:27:44):
Okay, this is a great source, this is a great source
of information.
Um, can, uh, can we close withsomething that's kind of like I
know important to you, becauseI've seen some of your posts
online.
Why is now such an importanttime?
You know, we have people whoare, um, have people who are

(01:28:09):
seeking out information.
They want to know their world,they want to understand.
We always have had people whoare interested in their
surroundings and scientificallyminded.
I'm thinking young people, oldpeople, everybody.
Why is it so important that weare doing this outreach?
Because I know you're prettypassionate about it.
What?
Why do you think that matters?

Speaker 2 (01:28:28):
Yeah, I now more than ever.
And that brings back a CarlSagan quote where we live in a
time where our society is builton science and technology, yet
yet so few people know aboutscience and technology.
I mean, how many people knowhow this became a real thing?

(01:28:49):
You know, we've become so jadedwith oh, I just have this and
oh, I can just send them.
It's like there was a timewhere you couldn't how does it
all work?

Speaker 1 (01:29:01):
I don't know that even some of the experts that
work on these devices even knowhow they work from start to
finish.
I'd like to know that personwho can tell me how every step
in the manufacturing process andevery step in the development
of software that makes youriPhone run happens.
I don't think there's a singleperson on earth who can do all
of that, and that's scary toknow that, and especially with

(01:29:23):
AI and all the things that arecoming around the bend here,
where there's this informationis at your fingertips.
How to differentiate betweenreality and what you're looking
at is coming from a relevantsource that makes sense and is
backed by scientific researchand understanding, and it is

(01:29:44):
important to be able to thinkthrough problems still and
understand things in your ownbrain, and not everything can be
, and should be, a looking it uponline or asking AI question.
In fact, if you can have a lotof information up here and you
have the aid of AI, now we'retalking.

(01:30:04):
Now we've got that synergisticeffect, where the fact that
people who are and I think thisis the case once again there's
always going to be the people inour world who are motivated,
who are interested, who want tolearn and know things and it's
very easy to let you go down thedoom scrolling right, yeah, of

(01:30:28):
how bad this could go and Ithink, if we do the right
decisions here as a society,including our little bit, which
is to teach people about theiruniverse, that this opens up so
many doors, and for people whoare, especially for young people
who are trying to take thistechnology that's going to be in

(01:30:49):
their hands, and to incorporatethat within what they
understand about their universein their own minds, and to ask
those good questions and to knowthose good resources, I think
is important.
So I appreciate you, Iappreciate the work you're doing
.
I want to thank you for comingon uh to the podcast guys.

(01:31:11):
Kevin Lagore, you, you are doingamazing work.
My friend uh focus astronomyoutreach um just an awesome
organization, so thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:31:20):
Yeah, thanks for having me on and yeah, I like
what you said there.
Just to wrap that whole thingup, where astronomy for me has
taught me a lot of things aboutlife, where it's like number one
, you should be willing toquestion things.
Critical thinking is important.
Don't be afraid to askquestions, and the biggest thing

(01:31:41):
for astronomy for me is it putsyou in your place.
It shows you how small andinsignificant we are here on our
little planet.
And when you just see all thisgarbage online people making up
stories it's like you just don'twant to take the time to
understand your place and so wejust make up stuff.
And if we could just take astep back because I'm sure

(01:32:03):
you've probably seen this atevents, you could take people
from all different walks of life, all different faiths, um
backgrounds, and you could putthem under the night sky.
I don't care what politicalaffiliation you are, that
completely disintegrates whenyou put people under the night
sky and they're like wow.
So there's like this seed in ourhead that people are just like

(01:32:26):
you know.
I should ask more.
It just you start thinking onthis very deep rooted thing in
the human brain that I'm curious.

Speaker 1 (01:32:35):
I'm located near Lancaster, pennsylvania, and we
have a very large Amishcommunity and when I was doing
outreach, I was doing it inLancaster and we had some Amish
people show up to our events and, man, they asked some of the
most amazing questions.
You know they're coming from abackground that is, you know,

(01:32:58):
basically no cars, no phones, notechnology.
They're using horses andbuggies still no cars, no phones
, no technology.
They're using horses andbuggies still.
And yet they look through aneyepiece and they ask questions
that I think are more meaningfulfrom, like, a time spent on
this planet trying to understandwhat you're looking at, Not

(01:33:19):
even faith-based, just questions.
And they were open toeverything.
And it blew my mind because,you know, I had my caricature,
living here my whole life, ofwhat these people were like, um,
but, like you said, itdisintegrated, it was gone.
They wanted to know, like, whatdo we know?
What do we know?
What is science telling us?
I was like, wow, these peopleare really a lot more open to

(01:33:41):
this uh, scientificunderstanding of their universe
than we might think.

Speaker 2 (01:33:46):
Well, they don't have all the the noise of the world
buzzing around, that they knowwhat's there, but they like cut
that layer out.
There's so much crap in theworld now, like with AI, and you
know this is fake news andthey're wrong and it's just a
constant like finger pointing.
Whatever.
It's just a constant like fingerpointing whatever it is.
It's like if you just wouldshut up, stop talking and just

(01:34:11):
bring it down.
That's what I like the night.
The night is calm, it's quiet,the world is at peace, finally,
and now we can just be like, hey, what's your political
affiliate?
I don't care, I don't even knowwhat you look like, you're just
some voice in the dark.
So everyone looks the same.
In the dark I can't see you.

Speaker 1 (01:34:33):
And I'm just thinking about climbing up that ladder,
that 28, looking in the eyepiecestill, that's never going to
get old.
That's never going to get old.

Speaker 2 (01:34:43):
That's a thing that's never going to get old.
That's never going to get old.
That's a thing, that's a place.
If we had the technology, wecould go there and think about
all the like.
It really falls away when youstart looking into space and
it's like think of what we coulddo if we just focused on this
and tried to, you know, getourselves out into the deepest
waters we've ever imagined.

(01:35:05):
But we're too busy being like,well, it's their fault.

Speaker 1 (01:35:10):
Kevin, I think we need to have you back on the
podcast at some point.
There's a whole other hour and ahalf conversation we could talk
about hours and hours worth ofthese things, so I'm going to
call it a win here.
So thank you and everybody,please keep looking up.
Yeah, thanks a lot.

(01:35:30):
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