April 16, 2024 • 60 mins
Discover the night sky's secrets and sidestep the amateur astronomer's blunders with Dave from Cosmos Safari and Rob the Last Minute Astronomer. In this latest podcast episode, Dave and Rob unfold a treasure map of knowledge, pointing the way to stellar success. Whether you're a seasoned star chaser or your telescopic journey is just beginning, the shared insights and personal stories in this podcast will illuminate the path, highlighting the power of preparation and the benefits of tapping into the collective wisdom found within local astronomy clubs.
Journey through time with us as Dave and Rob trace the evolution of the tools that bring the heavens within our grasp. From the revolutionary refractor telescope to the innovative Origin Telescope, we discuss how each leap in technology widened our window into the cosmos. The conversation also reveals how the familiar tech in your pocket may be all you need to start capturing the majesty of the night sky today. With Dave's expertise, you'll learn how advancements like the Origin Telescope are not just enhancing our view but making astronomy more accessible than ever.
As our cosmic conversation draws to a close, Dave and Rob leave you with pearls of wisdom for optimizing your stargazing experience. Embrace the dark—both in the sky and in your vision—for a deeper appreciation of the universe's grandeur. Plus, don't miss Dave and Rob's exciting anecdotes from dark sky sites and the basics of astrophotography that'll have you reaching for your camera.
Cosmos Safari's monthly episodes are your ongoing ticket to the stars, so join us every third Tuesday, and don't forget to like, subscribe, and share, keeping our community of celestial enthusiasts ever-expanding.
A Special Thanks to Will Young at https://www.deepskydude.com/ for the right to use his awesome music.
Support the show
Check out the video version of this podcast on the Cosmos Safari YouTube Channel www.youtube.com/c/cosmossafari
Check out the video version of this podcast on the Cosmos Safari YouTube Channel www.youtube.com/c/cosmossafari
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (00:00):
I'm Dave from Cosmos Safari.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astr (00:01):
And I'm Rob, the Last Minute
Astronomer Welcome new amateurastronomers into the hobby.
We want to revisit the mistakesthat we made and talk about the
various hobby killers that somepeople get tripped up in and
how to avoid those types ofpotholes.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safar (00:17):
Yeah , I think this is going to be a
really important episode tolisten into, no matter what
level you're at, becausesometimes it's important just to
kind of reflect on where you'vebeen and how much progress
you've made.
So, even if you're someone whohas listened to, you know a lot
of things and you've read a lotof things and you you know
you're pretty advanced at thispoint.
(00:37):
Sometimes it's good to justreflect on how much you have
grown.
So, whether you're at the verybeginnings of your journey in
astronomy or whether you're veryhappy with where you're at in
astronomy and you've beensuccessful, this might be a
great podcast to kind of justthink about.
Yeah, we all start somewhere andI've made my fair share of
(01:00):
mistakes over the years.
I've been frustrated quite abit over the years at times and
in the end it's a journey thatwe just all have to go through.
But if we can help you in anyway, we'd like to do that with
this podcast.
Try to learn from our mistakesand maybe we can help you out.
(01:20):
Make sure you get theadvancement you'd like in the
hobby.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Ast (01:24):
Dave , I know one of the things I
love to do with the astronomy isto try to help other people get
into the hobby, because youknow you can get somebody in the
hobby but then they sort of getlost and there are some
pitfalls and such.
So in the spirit of trying tohelp people get in the hobby and
stick with the hobby, what wasyour big success?
(01:45):
Like what helped you actuallyget started and continue going?
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (01:49):
So one of the most important things
that I did early on is Isomehow heard about a local
astronomy club that met at ourlibrary and I went to the
library on one of their nights,where they were just having a
discussion, and met some peoplethat became very, very good
(02:11):
friends over the years, one ofwhich, lane Davis, helped me to
get into astrophotography, andalso the other is you, and
together we were learning this.
You know the process of how touse a telescope from people that
had been doing it for many,many, many years, and their
(02:36):
knowledge and their willingnessto help us was, I think, the
most important thing for me.
To have that individual, thatlocal person that knew their
stuff.
You know we ended up findingourselves in these roles as kind
of like leaders of the club,but that's because of how much
(02:57):
it helped us.
I think it really was areflection upon, like the club
itself, as to how importantthese types of organizations are
, and I highly encourage anybodywho's interested in astronomy
and is just getting started.
The first step is go to a localastronomy club and introduce
yourself and be OK with the factthat they're going to know a
(03:21):
lot, and try to find that personin the club that's willing to
help you at your level.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Ast (03:28):
They might want to tell you more
than you want to know.
So make sure you ask targetedquestions.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (03:35):
So even within the club there's
oftentimes a group of people whoare more into the actual
observational astronomy withtelescopes and there's other
people who are more like justinterested in the astronomy as a
topic.
So if your interest is intelescopes and observing, you
want to make sure that you'rekind of involving yourself in
any outings that they have.
(03:56):
Oftentimes they'll have littleget togethers with the
telescopes and when you're outthere you can look through a
bunch of different types oftelescopes too, which is kind of
nice.
You don't even have to own oneyet and I think for me that was
one of the important things is Ilook through other people's
scopes to kind of get anunderstanding of what, what
progression you know, should Ibe doing and where are my
(04:21):
interests and what, what is toobig to carry around, and listen
to those people.
And it really does help to tryto go out and do the actual
observations before you make apurchase, I think.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Ast (04:40):
Yeah , yeah, and every club runs
differently.
And even from time to time,yeah, yeah, and every club runs
differently.
And even from time to time Iremember in our club like there
(05:00):
were times when we were moreoutreach focused and times when
we were more astronomy talkfocused and times when we were
more.
I remember one of the bestparts was one of the members of
our club I had.
Let's see, my wife bought me amembership into the club as a
Christmas present after I had tostart teaching and I was like,
hey, you know, I'm getting thisgrant soon and I'd like to buy a
(05:22):
telescope and the rightequipment with this grant for my
school and I don't know whatI'm doing.
Like, help me, tom, help me dothis.
Okay, and he asked me what am Ilooking for?
How much money do I have?
And I think that was probablythe best part for him.
He's like, ooh, he's got thismuch money.
(05:43):
Here's an engineering problem.
How can I get him the beststuff and give him the right
stuff?
And I still have that equipmentto this day and it still works
and I am always grateful to Tomfor that.
Aside from the clubs, you knowthe clubs help us out and you
(06:03):
have people to talk to.
What kinds of problems did youface, like what hurdles did you
have to get over?
What frustrations did you findthat kind of nudged you away
from it a little bit?
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (06:30):
I think the biggest mistake that I
made early on was trying to goout while it was already dark
instead of getting outsidebefore it got dark and getting
things set up while there wasstill daylight.
Especially when it comes tofocusing the telescope if it's
out of focus significantly andyou don't have a bright object
to look at, um, it's, it'schallenging.
(06:51):
The same goes for your finderscope.
That should also be done duringthe daytime.
So find something at least ahundred feet away, um, try to
get that object in focus in yourtelescope.
I I oftentimes go for thingsthat are clearly like one shape,
so like the top of a telephonepole, for example, like there's
(07:13):
only one way to look at it,versus like trees with leaves or
something that are all youdon't know exactly where you're
looking.
And this way you have yourtelescope in focus and also on
the object, and then you canmove your finder scope to that
same place with the little knobson the finder scope and get it
(07:34):
all aligned so that oncenighttime comes, you can use
your finder scope.
Because if you don't have afinder scope, good luck Right.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Ast (07:45):
It's tough.
I remember many, many nightsI'd be, I pointed at the right
spot and I think it's in theright spot, and then I'm like
just sort of like going likeleft up, right down, left a
little more up, a little moreright, a little more, and it
does not work that, yeah, thatfinder scopeer scope is
absolutely key.
(08:06):
In fact, what I do have is I dohave a list of hobby killers
and I'm wondering I'll tell youwhat I rank them.
You give me something that youthink is a hobby killer in
astronomy and I'll tell youwhere I ranked that, if I ranked
(08:28):
it.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (08:29):
The first one.
I think the one that becomesthe most frustrating to me, even
as someone who's trying to helpothers who are just getting
started, is low quality tripods,that the tripods are not of a
high quality.
They're shaky and they breakeasily, and I oftentimes get
(08:54):
people who are feeling likesomehow it's their fault that
it's not working properly andthey start to think they're
doing something wrong.
And the reality is is that thetripod that they have is not
significant enough to be able tohold the telescope in place.
Rob Webb - Last Minute As (09:12):
Right right.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (09:13):
And the adjustment knobs on it are
confusing and difficult to useand inaccurate.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astr (09:20):
Yes , I would agree.
I put that as number two, thebad mount, right?
I mean, I've had plenty ofpeople donate me telescopes
right to the school and theycome in and it's almost always
one of the worst types of mounts.
Like you said, it's the shakyones, so ones with the knobs
(09:40):
that you have to twist.
I never quite got a handle ofthose knobs that you have to
twist.
I never quite got a handle ofthose.
And yeah, it just.
It's really frustrating becauseyou just breathe on it wrong
and the moon is flutteringthrough your eyepiece.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (09:52):
You mentioned, tom, who also was
the person who helped me fromour local astronomy club, and he
actually takes these telescopesthat have poor quality tripods
and mounts and he creates aDobsonian out of them, which he
did for me One of the telescopesthat I also had donated to the
(10:12):
planetarium.
I told him, I said this thing'shard to use and he said give it
to me and I'll see what I cando.
And within a few weeks hecalled me back up and he said
hey, I have it, you know.
Within a few weeks he called meback up and he said hey, I have
it, you know, set up for you.
And I got there and he had madeout of wood a base for it that
was extremely sturdy and my loveof Dobsonians came pretty
(10:37):
quickly as it was now easy touse.
You know, you just kind of pushit where it goes.
Once it gets there.
It doesn't move a whole lotwithout you wanting it to, and
it just made it intuitive.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astro (10:51):
So , yep, bad, mount is number two.
Let's see, you did talk aboutthe finder scope right, and how
you want to set it up during thedaytime, so that whatever is in
the finder is in your telescopeduring the daytime.
So you're looking in the rightspot.
I find that with whenever Isend one home people who use it,
(11:11):
they just like that is a bigkey, because if you can't put it
in the scope, it's not going tohelp you.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safar (11:18):
When we get back from this short
break.
Rob challenges Dave withanother round of last minute
trivia.
Andrea Worshill - Celestron (11:23):
Rob challenges Dave with another
round of last-minute triviaUnlock the power of your
smartphone to help you navigatethe sky with Celestron StarSense
Explorer.
The telescope works with yourphone, using patented sky
recognition technology topinpoint its exact position in
the night sky.
Select an object to view andfollow the on-screen arrows.
(11:45):
The bullseye turns green whenyour object is visible in the
eyepiece.
It's astronomy made simple.
Learn more at Celestroncomslash explore.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astr (11:57):
Can I interest you in another bit
of trivia?
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (12:00):
I did pretty well in the last one,
so I will say yes, but I have afeeling you're going to turn up
the heat on me.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astr (12:07):
Yes , I am, we've talked about the
first telescope, right, it was arefractor invented by Hans
Lipperhey or Zachariah Janssenor Jacob Mettius, depending on
how you read the history.
Jacob Medius, depending on howyou read the history.
But my question now is when wasthe first reflector created?
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (12:32):
I know it was Isaac Newton.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astron (12:39):
I thought you would know it was
Isaac Newton.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Saf (12:41):
That's why I didn't ask that.
I asked when.
To try to get you, I want tosay the, I want to say the
mid-1700s.
Final answer.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astr (12:54):
Yes , no, I'm sorry, 1668.
Hmm, yes, but you were right,it was Isaac Newton, and he was
trying to get rid of thechromatic aberration that was
going on with the refractors.
Right, because it's goingthrough glass, uh, the spectrum.
(13:15):
Just look at a pink floyd album, dark side of the moon.
You know, the light comes inand it sort of splits a little
bit because of different anglesof refraction, and so you get a
little red on one side and alittle blue on the other side
chromatic aberration, and thatwas common in the refractors.
And you know, fun fact aboutthis, once Isaac Newton
(13:39):
introduced the reflector, he wasimmediately elected to the
Royal Society of London.
Of course, like it was that bigof a deal, right, yeah, yeah,
calculus, nah, but a telescope,nice, yeah, they got him in.
And in fact John Hadley furtherimproved it by using a
(14:02):
parabolic curve instead of aspherical curve.
And that happened about 50years later, which is about the
time period you were.
You guessed so okay, but, butyeah, isaac Newton, good job.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (14:15):
You know, I always found it
interesting because Isaac Newtonand Galileo never actually
lived at the same time.
Isaac Newton was pretty muchlike, right after Galileo died
was when.
Lance Lucero - Celestron (14:30):
Isaac.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Saf (14:31):
Newton was born, and I always find it
interesting because, in a lot ofways, isaac Newton carried on
the work of Galileo.
I mean, galileo was doing workwith motion of Galileo.
I mean, galileo was doing workwith motion Uh, he was rolling
balls down ramps trying tocalculate things, and his
(14:52):
insights on physics, uh, werereally the the foundation for
Isaac Newton's work.
Um, in some ways, I almost feellike Isaac Newton is like
Galileo 2.0.
Like he wasn't done.
He just wanted to finish hisjob and he had to get a whole
second life to do it and helived through Isaac.
(15:13):
Newton.
It just feels like thatsometimes with the amazing work
that both of those uh folks did.
When you get into thosereflectors, the kind of
important thing to keep in mindis almost all of our modern
observatory class telescopes.
They're all mirrors, almost allare mirrors, and there's a good
(15:34):
reason for that, and that'sbecause you can support it from
underneath.
You can do that with a lens,and when you get to very large
sizes, not only does it becomevery heavy and very expensive,
it also sags under its ownweight.
You know you think of glass assomething that is solid, but it
does have tendencies to sag, andso when you've got that big
(15:59):
lens you know I think we talkedabout 43 inches was our podcast
trivia- last time, yeah, I thinkso.
Largest of all of the differentlenses ever created.
Any bigger than that, it startsto sag and it no longer can
hold its optical shape.
(16:21):
Because you have to move thetelescope at different
orientations, and so you can'teven design it to be sagging in
one particular location, becauseas soon as you change the
orientation of the scope to lookat a different place in the sky
, the whole lens shifts as well.
Rob Webb - Last Minute (16:38):
Exactly , yeah, so that invention by
Isaac Newton.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (16:42):
Not only did it get rid of
chromatic aberration, it alsowas what permitted us to build
these enormous telescopes thatwe see today.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Ast (16:50):
Yeah , yeah, Just a huge, huge step
forward.
Now there was another stepforward Four years later.
This is your second one.
Four years later, in 1672,.
What kind of telescope wasinvented?
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (17:07):
I thought the first one was a
Newtonian reflector.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Ast (17:10):
Yeah , so you had the refractor with
Galileo and Lipperhey, you havethe reflector with Newton, and
then four years 1672.
What's the next kind?
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (17:22):
A folded optics Like includes both
lenses and mirrors.
Like, almost like aSchmidt-Cassegrain, but maybe a
slightly different design.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astr (17:33):
I'm going to give you half a point
on that.
1672, the Cassegrain wasinvented.
So you had the reflector, butyou had a small convex secondary
mirror to reflect the lightback down through a hole in the
main mirror Right, so not quiteso basically the SCT.
Yeah.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (17:53):
I did not look.
The Schmitt corrector is theglass at the front.
Right, right, and it did nothave that, but it did have the
Casagrain focus down belowthrough the mirror, so there's a
hole in the center of themirror.
What that does is effectivelyfolds the light right and
increases your overall focallength by quite a bit correct
(18:18):
nice, nicely done, not bad, notbad.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astr (18:21):
How do you feel about that round?
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (18:23):
uh, not quite as good as the first
one.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astron (18:27):
I don't blame you.
I had to look all that stuff upanyway.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safar (18:30):
When we get back from this short
break, Rob and Dave talk aboutthe future of beginner
astrophotography.
Lance Lucero - Cele (18:39):
Introducing Celestron Origin stargazing and
astroimaging redefined Originis completely autonomous.
Simply choose a target in theapp.
Origin captures it withultra-fast Rasa optics, perfects
it with AI imaging processingand delivers it to your device.
The results are better thanwhat you'd see in a much larger
telescope under much darkerskies.
(19:01):
Experience and share the nightsky like never before.
Learn more at Celestroncomslash origin.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astr (19:09):
Let me tell you a little bit about
my favorite telescope.
Okay now, my favorite telescopelike we said, the best
telescope is the one that you'regoing to use, and the telescope
that I have used the most is myDSLR camera.
That's just my thing.
(19:29):
I do love the telescopes and Ilike taking pictures through
telescopes, but just using DSLRcamera that's the one that I use
the most because I can takethat out anywhere and get good
pictures.
It's essentially a telescope,right, but it's just easier to
use Digital.
(19:50):
It's all automatic, like justinstant gratification.
You know, all I had to do waslearn about ISO and shutter
speed and f-stops, Shutter Speedand F-Stops, and there I really
have a really good start toactually taking good pictures of
(20:12):
the night sky.
So that's really been myfavorite.
In deep, where you are and havebeen, Dave, where you're really
stacking, you're taking tons ofpictures and stacking them up
and adjusting in Photoshop.
I don't know just me, I don'thave the patience for that, but
(20:34):
I have always enjoyed having myDSLR camera out there and just
being able to take pictures ofanything whenever I want to, and
that's about as deep as I'vereally gone.
Dave, tell us more about whatyou've done with telescopes and
cameras, because I find itreally interesting.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safar (20:56):
Well , before we get into the weeds
with that, I think I want to tryto keep this the astronomy 101
here.
Personally, I think you knowhaving a DSLR is is great and
all but you.
Most people have a cell phonein their pocket and a lot of
(21:17):
these modern cell phones arecapable of some pretty cool
things with their night modesand you can also get an adapter
for your scope and you can placeyour you know phone up to the
eyepiece for mostly for brightobjects like the moon or planets
.
But I have a feeling that as wecontinue to see cell phone
(21:41):
camera technology improving andas as as software on cameras uh,
for your phone get better aswell, I think we're going to
start to see that the resultsthat we're going to be able to
get as, uh, amateur astronomers,even if they're just getting
started, through the eyepiece toyour camera is going to be
(22:06):
improving and it's alreadypretty good.
So, oh yeah, for me, I thinkthat to first start off with
that is where you really want tobe, and you mean starting off
learning this stuff through thephone.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astro (22:20):
Is that what you're saying?
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (22:21):
I think the phone is the right
step.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Ast (22:23):
yeah , because, because you already
know it is.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (22:26):
Yes , Most people have them already.
Yeah, I don't necessarily thinkthat the DSLR is the right
choice.
Personally, I think there areother options out there that are
significantly better.
I feel like it's a sidestep andif it's something you already
own, by all means you should beusing it.
(22:46):
But I wouldn't recommend goingout and buying a DSLR for the
purpose of doing astronomy atthis point, because there are so
many great options that are outthere now and they're only
going to get to be more and moreaffordable.
And you know, we just talkedabout Origin in the last podcast
(23:08):
, the usability and just set itup and it starts doing the
imaging for you that technologyis only going to become more
mainstream in the years to come.
So I think that ittraditionally was a pathway of
going through a DSLR, but Idon't see it as being something
(23:32):
that's going to really be asprominent in the future.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Ast (23:35):
Yeah , I can see that fading away.
Yeah, I think I think it'll getbetter and better.
I don't think it's going tofade away that quickly, because
I think there still is, becauseas as the sensors in the phones
get better, the sensors in thecameras also get better.
Now they might be gettingdiminishing returns as they go,
but I don't know of, get atelescope that you're going to
(24:01):
use, right, and just have funwith what you got and what you
can afford and really use whatyou have to the max is my
opinion.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safar (24:13):
Join Dave as he gets first light
with the Origin Telescope inthis month's InCocus product
spotlight.
So I'm out here in my backyardand right behind me you can see
the constellation of Orion, theHunter, and I'm about to take
(24:34):
the brand new Celestron Origintelescope out here, which is a
home observatory.
Effectively, I can just pull itoutside and within a few
seconds I should have it up andrunning and imaging I'm going to
be trying for the Orion Nebula.
I also might look at theHorsehead Nebula while I'm here
in the Orion area.
I'm going to go grab my iPadand we're going to try to
(24:56):
connect through my home's Wi-Fisystem.
I'm going to then head insideto the studio and we're going to
try to run it from my TV.
Currently sitting in the studioand I'm enjoying a beautiful
image directly from the origin,which is outside right now.
(25:17):
We've got about 2,300 or soseconds of exposure and you can
see, know, the great Orionnebula.
Here.
Some of those brighter starsare notoriously difficult to
actually image because you notonly have the bright stars but
you also have faint nebulosityhere, some faint nebulosity over
(25:41):
here in these stars, and so tobe able to show this level of
sophistication in the way thatthe images are being processed
and taken, especially when youaccount for what I'm seeing here
on my ipad screen, this imageis not something that I truly
(26:02):
expected to see.
In the time that I haveallotted.
We can do some editing righthere within the app.
Oh, that's nice, so I'll changesome of the brightness settings
here.
Okay, the contrast settings?
Oh, I don't like that settings.
I don't like that.
That's pushing it too much.
(26:25):
So you got to find a happymedium.
One thing to try not to do isthat you don't need to make
outer space completely black.
That's one of the biggestthings that people who are just
(26:48):
getting started with imaging tryway too hard to make the sky
black, and by doing that you'reeffectively chopping off a huge
amount of the darker data.
There's my live view.
So with the live view, you geta sense as to how this whole
process starts.
Man, I really wanted to take alook at the Horsehead Nebula,
and this is the beauty of Originis.
I can just kind of come overhere, select it, center it, and
(27:17):
once it's centered, I can do alive view.
I can stack for a little bit.
It's outside, connected.
I'm warm.
Let's take a look.
Doesn't look like much.
Let's start imaging.
See what happens.
It looks like just stars.
I don't see any indication thatthere's anything here.
I'm starting to make out somefaint images here on my iPad
(27:41):
screen images here on my iPadscreen.
It's going to take some time forthis image to come out and be
visible like what we saw withthe Orion Nebula, but this is
one I've actually wanted toimage for a very, very long time
and I've never actually done it, and I just did it because I
(28:03):
wanted to.
I just decided, okay, that'swhen I want to see quick before
I move on.
And now I've got an image ofthe Horsehead Nebula I've never
gotten.
The productivity that thisprovides me is worth the
sacrifice of all of those yearsof challenging work that I tried
(28:24):
and tried to doastrophotography.
But this is just next level.
I've been imaging theMarkarian's chain now for over
half an hour.
However, it's impressivenonetheless.
I want to try out somethingdifferent, so I'm going to just
download and save theMarkarian's chain image.
(28:47):
So what I'd like to do now is Iwould like to actually schedule
a number of things to be imagedthroughout the rest of the
evening, and tomorrow morningI'll wake up and I'll retrieve
the scope.
So this is me signing off forthe night and we will see in the
morning.
Lance Lucero - Celestron (29:27):
The Thank you.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astr (30:09):
Can you tell me a little bit more
about you?
Know what?
What matters to you when you'repicking an eyepiece, just at at
the scope, and when you'repicking one buying, picking one
out when you're buying one.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (30:21):
So when I went to start to get some
additional eyepieces not justthe ones that came with the
telescope, but I wasspecifically going out looking
to buy an eyepiece One of thefirst things I did is I looked
through other people's scopeswith their eyepieces and one
night, I remember I was at alocal dark sky site and I asked
(30:46):
one of my friends from myastronomy club if I could borrow
one of their eyepieces and putit into my scope.
And as soon as I put thateyepiece in, put my eye up to it
, it was completely different.
It was like having a brand newtelescope, because the optical
system is only as good as itsleast performing piece and if
(31:09):
that is the eyepiece and itdoesn't matter how good of a
telescope you have if you put apoor quality eyepiece in it,
you're going to get poor qualityresults and that taught me in
that moment that an eyepieceneeds to be part of your budget.
And one of the things that I'vefound over the years is
(31:30):
important to me is somethingcalled eye relief the ability to
have your eye not be directlyup against the eyepiece to give
you some distance.
And the reason is because Iwear glasses and I have an
astigmatism.
You don't technically have towear glasses to look through a
telescope if you do not have anastigmatism, because you can
(31:54):
focus with the actual focuserand you can correct for any
normal vision.
What you cannot correct for isthe misshapen eyeball, which is
what an astigmatism is.
Glasses can and you can get aspecial lens to place over some
of the eyepieces that are outthere, uh, but that stays.
(32:17):
You know the same if yourprescription changes you're
going to have to get a new one.
You know you're going to getnew glasses.
So having that extra eye reliefallows you to wear your glasses
, which is nice.
Um, also, it's just morecomfortable when you're out
there viewing to have that extra, you know, eye distance because
(32:40):
you have the little cup thatcovers up your eye and that cup
kind of blocks the light out andit's just a much better feel
than having your eye likestraight up against the glass
trying to see through it.
So eye relief is important.
The other thing is the actualsize of the opening.
A lot of the ones you get from,you know, the manufacturers.
(33:03):
When you buy a telescope,initially the eyepiece is
actually a fairly small littlething and then most of the
manufacturers have upgradableeyepieces and they're much
larger and easier to lookthrough.
Especially with kids, it's alot easier for them to focus
their eye when there's a biggeropening Right.
(33:26):
And the last thing to look at isand this is kind of specific to
deep sky is the apparent fieldof view.
So with a deep sky object, oneof the things that you should
always consider is that youdon't really need or want
necessarily to be zoomed in, andso for that you know you want a
(33:48):
higher millimeter eyepiecewhich will give you a wider
field of view.
But then within the eyepieceitself there's this apparent
field of view which is like kindof like how much of a range of
vision you have, and with a verywide field of view it almost
feels like you're lookingthrough a portal, like out a
window of a spaceship.
(34:08):
It's it's a much differentexperience.
Other eyepieces are better foryou know, more like planetary,
where the object is very smalland bright, and there you want
to be more zoomed in.
So you want a low millimetereyepiece where the apparent
field of view isn't quite asimportant as it would be with
(34:29):
the deep sky object, becauseyou're trying to focus on
something that's very small andin the center of the eyepiece
right you know, and so itdepends once again what you're
trying to accomplish.
if you're trying to look atplanets, you want to have a
planetary setup, you want tohave eyepieces that are specific
(34:49):
to that, and if you are goingdeep sky, you're going to want
to have more of those wide fieldversions of the eyepiece.
And then there's some inbetween where you know kind of a
hybrid middle ground.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Ast (35:07):
What would you say about between the
one and a quarter inch or thetwo inch?
Which ones do you typicallyprefer?
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (35:15):
I personally want my telescopes to
include the two inch eyepiecewhenever possible.
I have had a number of two incheyepieces and one and a quarter
inch eyepieces over the yearsand I've seen good quality in
both one and a quarter incheyepieces over the years and
I've seen good quality in both.
So I wouldn't say that that isnecessarily a you know deal
(35:36):
breaker.
If it's a one and a quarterinch eyepiece, don't guarantee
that that's going to necessarilygive you better views than a
two inch.
But I would like my telescopesto have that option.
It just opens up more doors.
You can always put something into make it smaller and adapt it
to the one and a quarter inch.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astr (35:58):
Not even just the knowledge of the
eye pieces.
You want one that fits you andyou're observing.
But I find that just knowingwhat to do and how to operate
the telescope, but moreparticularly like one of the
things we hear a lot, is I'mlooking through this telescope
and I can't see anything Likewhat is going on.
(36:20):
Right, and we've already talkedabout some of that.
Right, some of it is you haveto have it actually looking at
something, so line up yourfinder scope.
You have to have it in focus,right, but then you know what
are.
What are some of the otherthings that you find people get
frustrated with?
This is number three on my listjust knowledge of the night sky
(36:43):
and how the telescope works.
What do you think gets peopletripped up the most?
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (36:57):
the most.
Well, when you look through atelescope, the image is inverted
number one, and that initiallythrows a lot of people off,
which is once again why I highlyrecommend people start during
the daytime.
That will all be very obviouswhen you're looking at things
around that are normalterrestrial objects, and so
getting some practice with itwhile you're outside during the
day is something that not onlycan you put it in focus, not
(37:19):
only can you get your finderscope set up properly, not only
can you get just a basic feelfor it.
You'll have that same knowledgegoing into the nighttime when
you do have problems, if you dohave problems at night, and
you'll have solutions for thoseproblems because you've
practiced.
(37:40):
Um, one of the things I would dois I would start with the wider
field eyepieces.
Even if you're going to begoing um to do planetary work,
for example and I said you knowyou should be more zoomed in
that isn't the first step, right?
So if you're looking at thislittle patch of sky, any motion
(38:01):
in that telescope is going tomake a huge difference in what
you're looking at because you'reso zoomed in, the magn is too
high and by starting with one ofthose higher millimeter eye
pieces that are lowermagnification.
It provides you a wider fieldof view, which gives you more of
the night sky to work with andyou can find those bright stars
(38:26):
and get them centered and thenzoom in.
You know, and once you orwhatever object you're looking
at, right and the also the thingis, when you zoom in you're
losing the.
The light level is going downRight, if it's a dim object, you
might not want to be zooming inand it's possible you're
(38:47):
putting in too high of amagnification right off the bat.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Ast (38:51):
Yeah , that's something that actually
got me one of the first times,like I really noticed it.
I was trying to zoom in onSaturn, right, and because
Saturn is so bright when youhave it really tiny in your
scope right, like it's almosttoo bright where it's blowing
itself out, and then I did likeI think I did like an eight
millimeter Nagler on a Barlow orsomething like that, and it was
(39:13):
big, but I'm like this is kindof dull, you know, and it really
surprised me.
But the idea is, no matter what, you have the same amount of
light coming through, you eitherhave the light concentrated and
it's smaller for a smaller zoomand a wider field, or you just
kind of spread that out a littlemore thinly if you're zooming
(39:35):
in.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (39:36):
The other thing to consider, though
, is as well when you're zoomingin on something, you're also
going to start to see some ofthe atmospheric effects.
There is a limiting factor basedon your atmospheric conditions
at that moment, and you knowsome places are are great, Uh,
(39:57):
like the location itselfgenerally has better, uh,
atmospheric conditions forviewing.
We call it seeing conditions,um, where, basically, it's the
turbulence in the atmospherethat's affecting your ability to
see.
You know objects, clearly.
I liken it to, on, like a hotsummer day, how you see the
(40:18):
effects of the heat rising fromthe asphalt, but that's
happening up in the atmospherealso, and that would be
atmospheric seeing.
There's also, even if there'snot cloud cover, there is
transparency, you know there'smoisture in the atmosphere, and
that can affect things ahaziness effect, and so as you
(40:41):
zoom in, you're going to pick upmore of the seeing, and
sometimes you need to reallycheck to make sure that what
you're observing isn't theresult of the atmosphere at that
moment.
That it's not your optics, youknow.
And so even if there's notclouds, that doesn't necessarily
(41:03):
mean that it's going to be agood night to observe.
Rob Webb - Last Minute As (41:06):
Right , exactly, and you, I found this
it was really interesting.
Right, exactly, and I foundthis it was really interesting.
The first time I really noticedit was it was a Thanksgiving a
long time ago and I brought mytelescope back home to show my
parents and check it out andthere was this moon.
It was, I think, almost a fullmoon and it was coming up off
the horizon.
And of course, when it's rightlow on the horizon it's orange,
(41:30):
right Like it looks super bigand it's orange.
But because it's low on thehorizon, you can see all the
little wibbly, wobblies, thewavies, right, and I was like
what, what is going on?
This can't be good.
And then I realized no, that'sjust the heat in the atmosphere,
that's the differenttemperature pockets of air, and
since it was low on the horizon,I was looking through more air.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Saf (41:51):
You're looking through about a hundred
times more atmosphere whenyou're looking towards the
horizon than if you're lookingdirectly overhead, at your
zenith, to point directly overyour head.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astr (42:00):
Now don't let that.
You know newbies, don't letthat fool you Like it doesn't
have to be perfectly above you.
Whatever you're looking at tobe good, you just have to find
that balance.
I know Don't let perfect 20degrees.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (42:13):
15 to 20 degrees above the horizon
is like I mean, unless it'ssomething that you're not going
to see otherwise, like, forexample, the Triffid Nebula and
the Lagoon Nebula where I livein Northern Hemisphere, you know
Pennsylvania 40 degreeslatitude, that doesn't get much
higher than that.
It doesn't.
No, it doesn't get any higher.
You're going to either not lookat it or you got to deal with
(42:35):
the atmospheric effects, right.
But if it's an object that doesrise higher, you might want to
look at some other things beforebothering to observe it.
You know, depending on whattime it will take, and you know
there's many astronomy apps outthere that you can use to look
at when those objects are goingto rise higher and such.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astron (42:55):
I think we're down to the very
last and what I call the numberone hobby killer in terms of
astronomy, and that, to me, isthe expectations not matching
the reality.
Yep, is the expectations notmatching the reality, right?
And so I think of this as somepeople go and they buy a
(43:16):
telescope and they see, oh, 200times, and then they think
they're going to look at thering nebula and see what a
Hubble Space Telescope pictureis, right, sure, that's just not
going to happen.
You know, the expectation isthe expectation you should have
should be closer to reality.
Where you're looking at faintfuzzies in the sky, right, like,
(43:38):
it is not going to look thatgreat, unless you're doing the
photography, and that's adangerous place.
There be dragons, okay, but ifyou're doing visual astronomy,
just be aware it's going to beblack and white.
It's going to be black andwhite because, a we're not
getting enough light, b youreyes are going to be dark
adapted, so I forget if it'srods or cones or whatever, but
(44:01):
it switches to night visionafter about 20 minutes in the
dark, so you can only see inblack and white anyway, right?
And you're probably not goingto have the most powerful
telescope.
You don't have a Hubbletelescope.
You just don't.
And even the Hubble telescopeisn't just visual, like it's
taking photography, so just knowthat, like you're seeing
(44:26):
something as it is, and that'sstill incredible.
The thing that I like to sort ofmeditate upon when I'm looking
at stuff in the sky is, ofcourse, I want to look up how
big the thing is, what kind ofobject it is is it a cluster or
whatever?
But the thing that I like to dois I like to look at how far
(44:48):
away is this object?
Because if I'm looking at theAndromeda galaxy and it's what?
Two and a half billion lightyears away, I think something
like that Million, million,million, yeah, million, okay, so
about 2 million light yearsaway, like you're looking at
light that left that galaxy 2million years ago.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Saf (45:09):
You're looking back in time, galaxy 2
million years ago.
Rob Webb - Last Minute A (45:11):
You're looking back in time.
Yeah, like that is incredibleto me and that's where I get the
satisfaction out of this.
Yes, I also get it by takingcool pictures, but I get the
satisfaction of the like.
I'm looking at this, I'mlooking back in time, I'm the
only one seeing those photons.
Those photons traveled 13million or 2 million light years
(45:33):
to get here, right, and I'm theone that's seeing them.
So if you can sort of try tomatch reality to your
expectations, don't let perfectbe the enemy of good.
I think you're going to have alot of fun in this hobby.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (45:48):
You said a few things that I want
to circle back to.
The first one um had to do withdark adaption.
So I think most people arefamiliar with the fact that if
you know you wake up in themiddle of the night after having
slept for a while, that youknow you turn on the bright
lights of, like, your bathroomor something, it's going to
blind you for a moment.
Right, that is effectively whatwe're talking about.
(46:11):
Is your eyes become moresensitive when, maybe 20 to 30
minutes, as Rob said, where youshouldn't be?
You know, looking at your phonescreen, you know you should try
your best to avoid that.
You should try to use a redflashlight only when you're
(46:32):
trying to do things and try tokeep it as dim as possible so
that you can maintain your darkadaption.
And if you ever watch any sortof thing where they're trying to
operate machinery or a jet orsomething or any military
operations, a lot of times theywill use red light to do just
(46:55):
that to keep their dark adaption.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Ast (46:58):
Yeah , I would recommend getting a
headlamp, one of the ones thatgoes around your head.
Those have been.
I have had one of those since Iwas a camp counselor in college
and those things are justphenomenal on many fronts,
absolutely, because whateveryou're looking at is where your
eyes are and those things arejust phenomenal on many fronts?
Dave Farina - Cosmos (47:11):
Absolutely , because whatever you're
looking at is where your eyesare, and that's what matters.
So the other thing youmentioned was like your rods and
your cones, and not to get intothe weeds with this, but I do
want to clarify.
So your eyes do have rods andcones.
The rods are your black andwhite vision, they're also on
(47:32):
the outside of your retina,whereas the cones are your color
vision and they're concentratedtowards the center and then in
the very center of your visionis actually a spot on your
retina that is where your opticnerve connects to your brain and
there's no ability to seeanything there, and so when
(47:52):
you're looking through aneyepiece, especially at
something that is a faint fuzzy,you want to make sure that
you're actually not lookingdirectly at it.
You want to look off to theside a little bit of your
eyepiece, like towards the edge,and use your peripheral vision
we call it adverted vision.
Look through it using thoserods rather than trying to look
(48:17):
at it through the cones, because, a they're more sensitive and,
b there's many more of themInstead of you know, a few
hundred thousand of them.
Like the cones, there's many,many millions of rods, and so
your sensitivity goes updramatically and the objects
will start to come into focus.
(48:37):
It takes some practice.
It's not something that'seasily done early.
I wouldn't recommend it forkids, you know right away.
But you know as you practice.
Try to use adverted vision andyou'll see things more clearly
than you thought.
The last thing I want to kindof circle back to that has to do
(48:59):
with red light and darkadaption, is dark sky sites and
what to expect in your ownneighborhood, depending on your,
your own individual lightpollution levels.
Some objects are simply notbright enough to be able to
compete with light pollution andyour eyes are not capable of
(49:20):
separating that signal and thatnoise from itself.
Right, you're going to have allof that light pollution coming
into your eyes as well and, as aresult, you will not see the
object, even if you try yourhardest.
So yeah, try to, you're notreally going to see the
andromeda galaxy.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astro (49:41):
If you're in the city, like you
might be able to do somephotography, but you're, you're
not going to be able to just seeit, like in the big cities.
You're kind of stuck withplanets, the moon and bright
stars.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safa (49:53):
Would you?
Rob Webb - Last Minute As (49:54):
agree .
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safar (49:55):
Yeah , to some degree.
It depends on the size of yourtelescope and you know you can
get filters.
There are filters that you canuse for your eyes, to light
pollution filters and such, orones that are, you know,
specific wavelengths of lightthat your eyes are capable of
seeing the visual parts of thespectrum.
(50:15):
But you really need to be in adark sky site to see things
properly.
The faint fuzzies at least,yeah, and I realize that not
everybody can get to one ofthose easily all the time, and
that should be taken intoconsideration.
When you go to purchase a scope, try to keep in mind what
(50:37):
you're going to be using it for.
If you don't think it'ssomething you want to try to put
into your car and drive acrossmany miles to get to your dark
sky site because it's just toobig, then maybe you should buy a
smaller scope, you know.
Or if it's something you'regoing to never be able to do,
(50:58):
maybe you should focus onplanetary for a little while,
get used to the process, makesure it's something that you
know you know very well, priorto taking that next step towards
deep sky objects.
So, rob, if you had to pick oneobject to look at for the rest
of your life and that's the onlyobject that you could ever look
(51:19):
at, what would it be and why?
Rob Webb - Last Minute A (51:24):
That's a tough one, because part of me
wants to say the moon, becauseat least you can see a different
part of it all the time and itkind of varies.
However, I feel like Jupiterwould be a little more
entertaining just because it'ssmall.
I can get better at actuallyseeing it, I could learn
(51:46):
planetary astrophotography andI'd love to be able to see more
of the transits and, yeah,transits of the Galilean moons
going across it and the shadowsof those moons going across it.
So it's easy to find in the sky, it's easy to locate.
So I would probably say Jupiter.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safar (52:09):
What about you say Jupiter, what
about you?
I had a really interestingexperience.
I was at Cherry Springs StatePark in Potter County,
pennsylvania, one of the darkestplaces on the east coast of the
United States and it's aninternational dark sky site.
And while I was there there wassomeone on the astronomy field
(52:31):
who had a 36-inch Dobsonian, andAl Nagler was there with
Telview and their one optic isactually a night vision optic
and it's sensitive in theinfrared parts of the spectrum.
(52:53):
And what we did is we placedthat eyepiece in the 36-inch
telescope and we pointed it atbasically an extremely dense
part of the Milky Way, onlyvisible in the summertime for us
in the Northern Hemisphere time, for us in the northern
(53:13):
hemisphere, right towardssagittarius, uh, the basically
the center of our galaxy, andthe view that I was able to see
it sticks with me to this day.
It's very, uh, much like almostlike a spiritual moment for me
and I I really can kind of takemyself back to that moment when
I'm under the stars, andespecially if I get a chance to
(53:35):
look at the Lagoon or TriffidNebula, because that's what we
mostly looked at while we werethere, and part of me also wants
to say the eclipse because, ifthat's allowed in our discussion
here, the eclipse was probablythe most moving to me and
(53:56):
probably the most spiritual I'veever felt.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Ast (54:00):
Yeah , yeah, I can't really disagree
with you there.
I'm excited for the next one.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safar (54:07):
It's within what?
Two weeks of our podcast here.
We're quickly approaching it.
I'm kind of still not realizinghow close it is, and you know
I'll be traveling to indiana injust a few days and it's gonna
be amazing.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astro (54:24):
So the eclipse yeah, it's kind of
nerve-wracking, I'll be honest,because I still have a lot, have
a lot of work to do for myautomation and stuff, but I do
have a lot prepared.
I'm trying to give myself somepositive vibes too.
I do have a lot prepared, but Iknow the programming and the I
don't know.
I get very anxious at thesesorts of times.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (54:46):
By the time this podcast airs, it
will have already occurred, andI think it's important that we
have a discussion afterwardabout our experience.
Rob Webb - Last Minu (54:54):
Absolutely .
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safa (54:55):
Stick around to find out if Dave
survives a final round of lastminute trivia.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astro (55:04):
So let's do some more trivia.
I have three more questions foryou.
We're going to switch back tothe refractors.
Okay, what major developmenthappened to them in 1733?
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (55:21):
I would guess that in 1700s they
started to put multiple lensestogether to make doublet and
triplet telescopes, which wouldhelp to reduce the effects of
chromatic aberration.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astr (55:40):
I'm going to give that to you.
I'm going to give that to you.
The correct answer is theachromatic lens.
Yeah, it's a doublet, which isbasically a doublet right.
So the idea is that once theydid that, they were able to
again, like you said, reduce thecolor aberrations and it
allowed for shorter and morefunctional telescopes.
(56:02):
And it first appeared in 1770,sorry, 1733 in a telescope made
by Chester Moore Hall, and hedid not publicize it at all.
I couldn't tell you why, butthen John Doland learned of the
invention and then beganproducing telescopes using that
in commercial quantities,starting in 1758.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (56:27):
So just to clarify chromatic
aberration is the effect of whenyou see colors that shouldn't
be there, especially with brightobjects, where it almost gives
you this rainbow effect, becausewhat's happening is the
different colors of light arepassing through the glass and as
(56:47):
they pass through the glassthey're spread out just like a
prism.
And that effect is notdesirable, right, it's not
something you want, and so justto fix that they take more than
one lens and they pancake themtogether.
Um, sometimes they're spacingbetween them, sometimes it's
(57:07):
like stuck together.
Uh, sometimes they have oil inbetween, sometimes it's just air
and there's all sorts ofdifferent designs.
But the whole point of it isgetting rid of those rainbowy
like effects, right, pretty muchI've actually seen them.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astro (57:22):
Uh , even with like a little
reflector, that I've had alittle 50 reflector, that is
pretty good for a basic amount.
Uh, you can actually look at j,at Jupiter, and you can see a
little blue on one side and redon the other side, like that.
That happens All right.
So now, second question Afterthe Casagrain reflector and the
(57:43):
achromatic lenses, what was thenext big redesign of the
telescope?
And I have a hint, if you getstuck it was invented around
1910, but not widely adopteduntil after 1950.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (58:00):
It was the Schmidt corrector.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astro (58:03):
No , although I bet you that
probably happened after, butit's not as big as this one.
What was the hint?
From what I can tell, the hintis that it's used on the Hubble
Space Telescope.
Ooh, stumped him.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (58:15):
I don't know.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astr (58:17):
All right, it is the Ritchie-Cretin
variant of the CassegrainReflector, like I said, invented
in 1910, adopted after 1950,and, yeah, they start using this
a lot more, especially on manymodern telescopes.
It gets a wider field of viewthan the classic cassock rain.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safar (58:40):
Okay , if you have an interest,
something that you really wouldlike to learn more about, please
consider asking us in thecomments.
We're more than happy to try tomake sure that the podcast is
moving in the direction that youguys, our viewers, our
listeners are interested in.
(59:02):
So please feel free to contactus.
If you're interested in everasking any questions of our
guests, we also have a Patreon.
And if you're interested inasking asking any questions of
our guests, we also have aPatreon and you know, if you're
interested in asking a question,we'll kind of list who's going
to be on next over on Patreon sothat you can know what's coming
and get a chance to askquestions of the experts.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astr (59:25):
All right.
So, as we're wrapping up thepodcast, Dave, I would just like
to leave the audience with justone last piece of advice, and I
know mine would be to get atelescope that you're going to
use and go ahead and use it.
Don't let perfect be the enemyof good.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (59:45):
I would say that you need to be
patient with yourself and to tryto find others to enjoy the
hobby with.
That can either learn with youor help you with the process,
and those local astronomy clubsare one of the best places to
start.
If you're still listening andlike this podcast, please
(01:00:07):
consider becoming one of ourPatreon patrons.
Memberships start as low as $3per month, with benefits
including opportunities to askquestions of our guests.
Also, please consider liking,subscribing and sharing this
podcast to help us bring theuniverse even closer than you
think.
The podcast will be availableevery third Tuesday of the month
(01:00:27):
.
I'm Dave from Cosmos Safari.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astr (00:01):
And I'm Rob, the Last Minute
Astronomer Welcome new amateurastronomers into the hobby.
We want to revisit the mistakesthat we made and talk about the
various hobby killers that somepeople get tripped up in and
how to avoid those types ofpotholes.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safar (00:17):
Yeah , I think this is going to be a
really important episode tolisten into, no matter what
level you're at, becausesometimes it's important just to
kind of reflect on where you'vebeen and how much progress
you've made.
So, even if you're someone whohas listened to, you know a lot
of things and you've read a lotof things and you you know
you're pretty advanced at thispoint.
(00:37):
Sometimes it's good to justreflect on how much you have
grown.
So, whether you're at the verybeginnings of your journey in
astronomy or whether you're veryhappy with where you're at in
astronomy and you've beensuccessful, this might be a
great podcast to kind of justthink about.
Yeah, we all start somewhere andI've made my fair share of
(01:00):
mistakes over the years.
I've been frustrated quite abit over the years at times and
in the end it's a journey thatwe just all have to go through.
But if we can help you in anyway, we'd like to do that with
this podcast.
Try to learn from our mistakesand maybe we can help you out.
(01:20):
Make sure you get theadvancement you'd like in the
hobby.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Ast (01:24):
Dave , I know one of the things I
love to do with the astronomy isto try to help other people get
into the hobby, because youknow you can get somebody in the
hobby but then they sort of getlost and there are some
pitfalls and such.
So in the spirit of trying tohelp people get in the hobby and
stick with the hobby, what wasyour big success?
(01:45):
Like what helped you actuallyget started and continue going?
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (01:49):
So one of the most important things
that I did early on is Isomehow heard about a local
astronomy club that met at ourlibrary and I went to the
library on one of their nights,where they were just having a
discussion, and met some peoplethat became very, very good
(02:11):
friends over the years, one ofwhich, lane Davis, helped me to
get into astrophotography, andalso the other is you, and
together we were learning this.
You know the process of how touse a telescope from people that
had been doing it for many,many, many years, and their
(02:36):
knowledge and their willingnessto help us was, I think, the
most important thing for me.
To have that individual, thatlocal person that knew their
stuff.
You know we ended up findingourselves in these roles as kind
of like leaders of the club,but that's because of how much
(02:57):
it helped us.
I think it really was areflection upon, like the club
itself, as to how importantthese types of organizations are
, and I highly encourage anybodywho's interested in astronomy
and is just getting started.
The first step is go to a localastronomy club and introduce
yourself and be OK with the factthat they're going to know a
(03:21):
lot, and try to find that personin the club that's willing to
help you at your level.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Ast (03:28):
They might want to tell you more
than you want to know.
So make sure you ask targetedquestions.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (03:35):
So even within the club there's
oftentimes a group of people whoare more into the actual
observational astronomy withtelescopes and there's other
people who are more like justinterested in the astronomy as a
topic.
So if your interest is intelescopes and observing, you
want to make sure that you'rekind of involving yourself in
any outings that they have.
(03:56):
Oftentimes they'll have littleget togethers with the
telescopes and when you're outthere you can look through a
bunch of different types oftelescopes too, which is kind of
nice.
You don't even have to own oneyet and I think for me that was
one of the important things is Ilook through other people's
scopes to kind of get anunderstanding of what, what
progression you know, should Ibe doing and where are my
(04:21):
interests and what, what is toobig to carry around, and listen
to those people.
And it really does help to tryto go out and do the actual
observations before you make apurchase, I think.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Ast (04:40):
Yeah , yeah, and every club runs
differently.
And even from time to time,yeah, yeah, and every club runs
differently.
And even from time to time Iremember in our club like there
(05:00):
were times when we were moreoutreach focused and times when
we were more astronomy talkfocused and times when we were
more.
I remember one of the bestparts was one of the members of
our club I had.
Let's see, my wife bought me amembership into the club as a
Christmas present after I had tostart teaching and I was like,
hey, you know, I'm getting thisgrant soon and I'd like to buy a
(05:22):
telescope and the rightequipment with this grant for my
school and I don't know whatI'm doing.
Like, help me, tom, help me dothis.
Okay, and he asked me what am Ilooking for?
How much money do I have?
And I think that was probablythe best part for him.
He's like, ooh, he's got thismuch money.
(05:43):
Here's an engineering problem.
How can I get him the beststuff and give him the right
stuff?
And I still have that equipmentto this day and it still works
and I am always grateful to Tomfor that.
Aside from the clubs, you knowthe clubs help us out and you
(06:03):
have people to talk to.
What kinds of problems did youface, like what hurdles did you
have to get over?
What frustrations did you findthat kind of nudged you away
from it a little bit?
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (06:30):
I think the biggest mistake that I
made early on was trying to goout while it was already dark
instead of getting outsidebefore it got dark and getting
things set up while there wasstill daylight.
Especially when it comes tofocusing the telescope if it's
out of focus significantly andyou don't have a bright object
to look at, um, it's, it'schallenging.
(06:51):
The same goes for your finderscope.
That should also be done duringthe daytime.
So find something at least ahundred feet away, um, try to
get that object in focus in yourtelescope.
I I oftentimes go for thingsthat are clearly like one shape,
so like the top of a telephonepole, for example, like there's
(07:13):
only one way to look at it,versus like trees with leaves or
something that are all youdon't know exactly where you're
looking.
And this way you have yourtelescope in focus and also on
the object, and then you canmove your finder scope to that
same place with the little knobson the finder scope and get it
(07:34):
all aligned so that oncenighttime comes, you can use
your finder scope.
Because if you don't have afinder scope, good luck Right.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Ast (07:45):
It's tough.
I remember many, many nightsI'd be, I pointed at the right
spot and I think it's in theright spot, and then I'm like
just sort of like going likeleft up, right down, left a
little more up, a little moreright, a little more, and it
does not work that, yeah, thatfinder scopeer scope is
absolutely key.
(08:06):
In fact, what I do have is I dohave a list of hobby killers
and I'm wondering I'll tell youwhat I rank them.
You give me something that youthink is a hobby killer in
astronomy and I'll tell youwhere I ranked that, if I ranked
(08:28):
it.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (08:29):
The first one.
I think the one that becomesthe most frustrating to me, even
as someone who's trying to helpothers who are just getting
started, is low quality tripods,that the tripods are not of a
high quality.
They're shaky and they breakeasily, and I oftentimes get
(08:54):
people who are feeling likesomehow it's their fault that
it's not working properly andthey start to think they're
doing something wrong.
And the reality is is that thetripod that they have is not
significant enough to be able tohold the telescope in place.
Rob Webb - Last Minute As (09:12):
Right right.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (09:13):
And the adjustment knobs on it are
confusing and difficult to useand inaccurate.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astr (09:20):
Yes , I would agree.
I put that as number two, thebad mount, right?
I mean, I've had plenty ofpeople donate me telescopes
right to the school and theycome in and it's almost always
one of the worst types of mounts.
Like you said, it's the shakyones, so ones with the knobs
(09:40):
that you have to twist.
I never quite got a handle ofthose knobs that you have to
twist.
I never quite got a handle ofthose.
And yeah, it just.
It's really frustrating becauseyou just breathe on it wrong
and the moon is flutteringthrough your eyepiece.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (09:52):
You mentioned, tom, who also was
the person who helped me fromour local astronomy club, and he
actually takes these telescopesthat have poor quality tripods
and mounts and he creates aDobsonian out of them, which he
did for me One of the telescopesthat I also had donated to the
(10:12):
planetarium.
I told him, I said this thing'shard to use and he said give it
to me and I'll see what I cando.
And within a few weeks hecalled me back up and he said
hey, I have it, you know.
Within a few weeks he called meback up and he said hey, I have
it, you know, set up for you.
And I got there and he had madeout of wood a base for it that
was extremely sturdy and my loveof Dobsonians came pretty
(10:37):
quickly as it was now easy touse.
You know, you just kind of pushit where it goes.
Once it gets there.
It doesn't move a whole lotwithout you wanting it to, and
it just made it intuitive.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astro (10:51):
So , yep, bad, mount is number two.
Let's see, you did talk aboutthe finder scope right, and how
you want to set it up during thedaytime, so that whatever is in
the finder is in your telescopeduring the daytime.
So you're looking in the rightspot.
I find that with whenever Isend one home people who use it,
(11:11):
they just like that is a bigkey, because if you can't put it
in the scope, it's not going tohelp you.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safar (11:18):
When we get back from this short
break.
Rob challenges Dave withanother round of last minute
trivia.
Andrea Worshill - Celestron (11:23):
Rob challenges Dave with another
round of last-minute triviaUnlock the power of your
smartphone to help you navigatethe sky with Celestron StarSense
Explorer.
The telescope works with yourphone, using patented sky
recognition technology topinpoint its exact position in
the night sky.
Select an object to view andfollow the on-screen arrows.
(11:45):
The bullseye turns green whenyour object is visible in the
eyepiece.
It's astronomy made simple.
Learn more at Celestroncomslash explore.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astr (11:57):
Can I interest you in another bit
of trivia?
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (12:00):
I did pretty well in the last one,
so I will say yes, but I have afeeling you're going to turn up
the heat on me.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astr (12:07):
Yes , I am, we've talked about the
first telescope, right, it was arefractor invented by Hans
Lipperhey or Zachariah Janssenor Jacob Mettius, depending on
how you read the history.
Jacob Medius, depending on howyou read the history.
But my question now is when wasthe first reflector created?
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (12:32):
I know it was Isaac Newton.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astron (12:39):
I thought you would know it was
Isaac Newton.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Saf (12:41):
That's why I didn't ask that.
I asked when.
To try to get you, I want tosay the, I want to say the
mid-1700s.
Final answer.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astr (12:54):
Yes , no, I'm sorry, 1668.
Hmm, yes, but you were right,it was Isaac Newton, and he was
trying to get rid of thechromatic aberration that was
going on with the refractors.
Right, because it's goingthrough glass, uh, the spectrum.
(13:15):
Just look at a pink floyd album, dark side of the moon.
You know, the light comes inand it sort of splits a little
bit because of different anglesof refraction, and so you get a
little red on one side and alittle blue on the other side
chromatic aberration, and thatwas common in the refractors.
And you know, fun fact aboutthis, once Isaac Newton
(13:39):
introduced the reflector, he wasimmediately elected to the
Royal Society of London.
Of course, like it was that bigof a deal, right, yeah, yeah,
calculus, nah, but a telescope,nice, yeah, they got him in.
And in fact John Hadley furtherimproved it by using a
(14:02):
parabolic curve instead of aspherical curve.
And that happened about 50years later, which is about the
time period you were.
You guessed so okay, but, butyeah, isaac Newton, good job.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (14:15):
You know, I always found it
interesting because Isaac Newtonand Galileo never actually
lived at the same time.
Isaac Newton was pretty muchlike, right after Galileo died
was when.
Lance Lucero - Celestron (14:30):
Isaac.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Saf (14:31):
Newton was born, and I always find it
interesting because, in a lot ofways, isaac Newton carried on
the work of Galileo.
I mean, galileo was doing workwith motion of Galileo.
I mean, galileo was doing workwith motion Uh, he was rolling
balls down ramps trying tocalculate things, and his
(14:52):
insights on physics, uh, werereally the the foundation for
Isaac Newton's work.
Um, in some ways, I almost feellike Isaac Newton is like
Galileo 2.0.
Like he wasn't done.
He just wanted to finish hisjob and he had to get a whole
second life to do it and helived through Isaac.
(15:13):
Newton.
It just feels like thatsometimes with the amazing work
that both of those uh folks did.
When you get into thosereflectors, the kind of
important thing to keep in mindis almost all of our modern
observatory class telescopes.
They're all mirrors, almost allare mirrors, and there's a good
(15:34):
reason for that, and that'sbecause you can support it from
underneath.
You can do that with a lens,and when you get to very large
sizes, not only does it becomevery heavy and very expensive,
it also sags under its ownweight.
You know you think of glass assomething that is solid, but it
does have tendencies to sag, andso when you've got that big
(15:59):
lens you know I think we talkedabout 43 inches was our podcast
trivia- last time, yeah, I thinkso.
Largest of all of the differentlenses ever created.
Any bigger than that, it startsto sag and it no longer can
hold its optical shape.
(16:21):
Because you have to move thetelescope at different
orientations, and so you can'teven design it to be sagging in
one particular location, becauseas soon as you change the
orientation of the scope to lookat a different place in the sky
, the whole lens shifts as well.
Rob Webb - Last Minute (16:38):
Exactly , yeah, so that invention by
Isaac Newton.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (16:42):
Not only did it get rid of
chromatic aberration, it alsowas what permitted us to build
these enormous telescopes thatwe see today.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Ast (16:50):
Yeah , yeah, Just a huge, huge step
forward.
Now there was another stepforward Four years later.
This is your second one.
Four years later, in 1672,.
What kind of telescope wasinvented?
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (17:07):
I thought the first one was a
Newtonian reflector.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Ast (17:10):
Yeah , so you had the refractor with
Galileo and Lipperhey, you havethe reflector with Newton, and
then four years 1672.
What's the next kind?
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (17:22):
A folded optics Like includes both
lenses and mirrors.
Like, almost like aSchmidt-Cassegrain, but maybe a
slightly different design.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astr (17:33):
I'm going to give you half a point
on that.
1672, the Cassegrain wasinvented.
So you had the reflector, butyou had a small convex secondary
mirror to reflect the lightback down through a hole in the
main mirror Right, so not quiteso basically the SCT.
Yeah.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (17:53):
I did not look.
The Schmitt corrector is theglass at the front.
Right, right, and it did nothave that, but it did have the
Casagrain focus down belowthrough the mirror, so there's a
hole in the center of themirror.
What that does is effectivelyfolds the light right and
increases your overall focallength by quite a bit correct
(18:18):
nice, nicely done, not bad, notbad.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astr (18:21):
How do you feel about that round?
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (18:23):
uh, not quite as good as the first
one.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astron (18:27):
I don't blame you.
I had to look all that stuff upanyway.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safar (18:30):
When we get back from this short
break, Rob and Dave talk aboutthe future of beginner
astrophotography.
Lance Lucero - Cele (18:39):
Introducing Celestron Origin stargazing and
astroimaging redefined Originis completely autonomous.
Simply choose a target in theapp.
Origin captures it withultra-fast Rasa optics, perfects
it with AI imaging processingand delivers it to your device.
The results are better thanwhat you'd see in a much larger
telescope under much darkerskies.
(19:01):
Experience and share the nightsky like never before.
Learn more at Celestroncomslash origin.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astr (19:09):
Let me tell you a little bit about
my favorite telescope.
Okay now, my favorite telescopelike we said, the best
telescope is the one that you'regoing to use, and the telescope
that I have used the most is myDSLR camera.
That's just my thing.
(19:29):
I do love the telescopes and Ilike taking pictures through
telescopes, but just using DSLRcamera that's the one that I use
the most because I can takethat out anywhere and get good
pictures.
It's essentially a telescope,right, but it's just easier to
use Digital.
(19:50):
It's all automatic, like justinstant gratification.
You know, all I had to do waslearn about ISO and shutter
speed and f-stops, Shutter Speedand F-Stops, and there I really
have a really good start toactually taking good pictures of
(20:12):
the night sky.
So that's really been myfavorite.
In deep, where you are and havebeen, Dave, where you're really
stacking, you're taking tons ofpictures and stacking them up
and adjusting in Photoshop.
I don't know just me, I don'thave the patience for that, but
(20:34):
I have always enjoyed having myDSLR camera out there and just
being able to take pictures ofanything whenever I want to, and
that's about as deep as I'vereally gone.
Dave, tell us more about whatyou've done with telescopes and
cameras, because I find itreally interesting.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safar (20:56):
Well , before we get into the weeds
with that, I think I want to tryto keep this the astronomy 101
here.
Personally, I think you knowhaving a DSLR is is great and
all but you.
Most people have a cell phonein their pocket and a lot of
(21:17):
these modern cell phones arecapable of some pretty cool
things with their night modesand you can also get an adapter
for your scope and you can placeyour you know phone up to the
eyepiece for mostly for brightobjects like the moon or planets
.
But I have a feeling that as wecontinue to see cell phone
(21:41):
camera technology improving andas as as software on cameras uh,
for your phone get better aswell, I think we're going to
start to see that the resultsthat we're going to be able to
get as, uh, amateur astronomers,even if they're just getting
started, through the eyepiece toyour camera is going to be
(22:06):
improving and it's alreadypretty good.
So, oh yeah, for me, I thinkthat to first start off with
that is where you really want tobe, and you mean starting off
learning this stuff through thephone.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astro (22:20):
Is that what you're saying?
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (22:21):
I think the phone is the right
step.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Ast (22:23):
yeah , because, because you already
know it is.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (22:26):
Yes , Most people have them already.
Yeah, I don't necessarily thinkthat the DSLR is the right
choice.
Personally, I think there areother options out there that are
significantly better.
I feel like it's a sidestep andif it's something you already
own, by all means you should beusing it.
(22:46):
But I wouldn't recommend goingout and buying a DSLR for the
purpose of doing astronomy atthis point, because there are so
many great options that are outthere now and they're only
going to get to be more and moreaffordable.
And you know, we just talkedabout Origin in the last podcast
(23:08):
, the usability and just set itup and it starts doing the
imaging for you that technologyis only going to become more
mainstream in the years to come.
So I think that ittraditionally was a pathway of
going through a DSLR, but Idon't see it as being something
(23:32):
that's going to really be asprominent in the future.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Ast (23:35):
Yeah , I can see that fading away.
Yeah, I think I think it'll getbetter and better.
I don't think it's going tofade away that quickly, because
I think there still is, becauseas as the sensors in the phones
get better, the sensors in thecameras also get better.
Now they might be gettingdiminishing returns as they go,
but I don't know of, get atelescope that you're going to
(24:01):
use, right, and just have funwith what you got and what you
can afford and really use whatyou have to the max is my
opinion.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safar (24:13):
Join Dave as he gets first light
with the Origin Telescope inthis month's InCocus product
spotlight.
So I'm out here in my backyardand right behind me you can see
the constellation of Orion, theHunter, and I'm about to take
(24:34):
the brand new Celestron Origintelescope out here, which is a
home observatory.
Effectively, I can just pull itoutside and within a few
seconds I should have it up andrunning and imaging I'm going to
be trying for the Orion Nebula.
I also might look at theHorsehead Nebula while I'm here
in the Orion area.
I'm going to go grab my iPadand we're going to try to
(24:56):
connect through my home's Wi-Fisystem.
I'm going to then head insideto the studio and we're going to
try to run it from my TV.
Currently sitting in the studioand I'm enjoying a beautiful
image directly from the origin,which is outside right now.
(25:17):
We've got about 2,300 or soseconds of exposure and you can
see, know, the great Orionnebula.
Here.
Some of those brighter starsare notoriously difficult to
actually image because you notonly have the bright stars but
you also have faint nebulosityhere, some faint nebulosity over
(25:41):
here in these stars, and so tobe able to show this level of
sophistication in the way thatthe images are being processed
and taken, especially when youaccount for what I'm seeing here
on my ipad screen, this imageis not something that I truly
(26:02):
expected to see.
In the time that I haveallotted.
We can do some editing righthere within the app.
Oh, that's nice, so I'll changesome of the brightness settings
here.
Okay, the contrast settings?
Oh, I don't like that settings.
I don't like that.
That's pushing it too much.
(26:25):
So you got to find a happymedium.
One thing to try not to do isthat you don't need to make
outer space completely black.
That's one of the biggestthings that people who are just
(26:48):
getting started with imaging tryway too hard to make the sky
black, and by doing that you'reeffectively chopping off a huge
amount of the darker data.
There's my live view.
So with the live view, you geta sense as to how this whole
process starts.
Man, I really wanted to take alook at the Horsehead Nebula,
and this is the beauty of Originis.
I can just kind of come overhere, select it, center it, and
(27:17):
once it's centered, I can do alive view.
I can stack for a little bit.
It's outside, connected.
I'm warm.
Let's take a look.
Doesn't look like much.
Let's start imaging.
See what happens.
It looks like just stars.
I don't see any indication thatthere's anything here.
I'm starting to make out somefaint images here on my iPad
(27:41):
screen images here on my iPadscreen.
It's going to take some time forthis image to come out and be
visible like what we saw withthe Orion Nebula, but this is
one I've actually wanted toimage for a very, very long time
and I've never actually done it, and I just did it because I
(28:03):
wanted to.
I just decided, okay, that'swhen I want to see quick before
I move on.
And now I've got an image ofthe Horsehead Nebula I've never
gotten.
The productivity that thisprovides me is worth the
sacrifice of all of those yearsof challenging work that I tried
(28:24):
and tried to doastrophotography.
But this is just next level.
I've been imaging theMarkarian's chain now for over
half an hour.
However, it's impressivenonetheless.
I want to try out somethingdifferent, so I'm going to just
download and save theMarkarian's chain image.
(28:47):
So what I'd like to do now is Iwould like to actually schedule
a number of things to be imagedthroughout the rest of the
evening, and tomorrow morningI'll wake up and I'll retrieve
the scope.
So this is me signing off forthe night and we will see in the
morning.
Lance Lucero - Celestron (29:27):
The Thank you.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astr (30:09):
Can you tell me a little bit more
about you?
Know what?
What matters to you when you'repicking an eyepiece, just at at
the scope, and when you'repicking one buying, picking one
out when you're buying one.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (30:21):
So when I went to start to get some
additional eyepieces not justthe ones that came with the
telescope, but I wasspecifically going out looking
to buy an eyepiece One of thefirst things I did is I looked
through other people's scopeswith their eyepieces and one
night, I remember I was at alocal dark sky site and I asked
(30:46):
one of my friends from myastronomy club if I could borrow
one of their eyepieces and putit into my scope.
And as soon as I put thateyepiece in, put my eye up to it
, it was completely different.
It was like having a brand newtelescope, because the optical
system is only as good as itsleast performing piece and if
(31:09):
that is the eyepiece and itdoesn't matter how good of a
telescope you have if you put apoor quality eyepiece in it,
you're going to get poor qualityresults and that taught me in
that moment that an eyepieceneeds to be part of your budget.
And one of the things that I'vefound over the years is
(31:30):
important to me is somethingcalled eye relief the ability to
have your eye not be directlyup against the eyepiece to give
you some distance.
And the reason is because Iwear glasses and I have an
astigmatism.
You don't technically have towear glasses to look through a
telescope if you do not have anastigmatism, because you can
(31:54):
focus with the actual focuserand you can correct for any
normal vision.
What you cannot correct for isthe misshapen eyeball, which is
what an astigmatism is.
Glasses can and you can get aspecial lens to place over some
of the eyepieces that are outthere, uh, but that stays.
(32:17):
You know the same if yourprescription changes you're
going to have to get a new one.
You know you're going to getnew glasses.
So having that extra eye reliefallows you to wear your glasses
, which is nice.
Um, also, it's just morecomfortable when you're out
there viewing to have that extra, you know, eye distance because
(32:40):
you have the little cup thatcovers up your eye and that cup
kind of blocks the light out andit's just a much better feel
than having your eye likestraight up against the glass
trying to see through it.
So eye relief is important.
The other thing is the actualsize of the opening.
A lot of the ones you get from,you know, the manufacturers.
(33:03):
When you buy a telescope,initially the eyepiece is
actually a fairly small littlething and then most of the
manufacturers have upgradableeyepieces and they're much
larger and easier to lookthrough.
Especially with kids, it's alot easier for them to focus
their eye when there's a biggeropening Right.
(33:26):
And the last thing to look at isand this is kind of specific to
deep sky is the apparent fieldof view.
So with a deep sky object, oneof the things that you should
always consider is that youdon't really need or want
necessarily to be zoomed in, andso for that you know you want a
(33:48):
higher millimeter eyepiecewhich will give you a wider
field of view.
But then within the eyepieceitself there's this apparent
field of view which is like kindof like how much of a range of
vision you have, and with a verywide field of view it almost
feels like you're lookingthrough a portal, like out a
window of a spaceship.
(34:08):
It's it's a much differentexperience.
Other eyepieces are better foryou know, more like planetary,
where the object is very smalland bright, and there you want
to be more zoomed in.
So you want a low millimetereyepiece where the apparent
field of view isn't quite asimportant as it would be with
(34:29):
the deep sky object, becauseyou're trying to focus on
something that's very small andin the center of the eyepiece
right you know, and so itdepends once again what you're
trying to accomplish.
if you're trying to look atplanets, you want to have a
planetary setup, you want tohave eyepieces that are specific
(34:49):
to that, and if you are goingdeep sky, you're going to want
to have more of those wide fieldversions of the eyepiece.
And then there's some inbetween where you know kind of a
hybrid middle ground.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Ast (35:07):
What would you say about between the
one and a quarter inch or thetwo inch?
Which ones do you typicallyprefer?
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (35:15):
I personally want my telescopes to
include the two inch eyepiecewhenever possible.
I have had a number of two incheyepieces and one and a quarter
inch eyepieces over the yearsand I've seen good quality in
both one and a quarter incheyepieces over the years and
I've seen good quality in both.
So I wouldn't say that that isnecessarily a you know deal
(35:36):
breaker.
If it's a one and a quarterinch eyepiece, don't guarantee
that that's going to necessarilygive you better views than a
two inch.
But I would like my telescopesto have that option.
It just opens up more doors.
You can always put something into make it smaller and adapt it
to the one and a quarter inch.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astr (35:58):
Not even just the knowledge of the
eye pieces.
You want one that fits you andyou're observing.
But I find that just knowingwhat to do and how to operate
the telescope, but moreparticularly like one of the
things we hear a lot, is I'mlooking through this telescope
and I can't see anything Likewhat is going on.
(36:20):
Right, and we've already talkedabout some of that.
Right, some of it is you haveto have it actually looking at
something, so line up yourfinder scope.
You have to have it in focus,right, but then you know what
are.
What are some of the otherthings that you find people get
frustrated with?
This is number three on my listjust knowledge of the night sky
(36:43):
and how the telescope works.
What do you think gets peopletripped up the most?
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (36:57):
the most.
Well, when you look through atelescope, the image is inverted
number one, and that initiallythrows a lot of people off,
which is once again why I highlyrecommend people start during
the daytime.
That will all be very obviouswhen you're looking at things
around that are normalterrestrial objects, and so
getting some practice with itwhile you're outside during the
day is something that not onlycan you put it in focus, not
(37:19):
only can you get your finderscope set up properly, not only
can you get just a basic feelfor it.
You'll have that same knowledgegoing into the nighttime when
you do have problems, if you dohave problems at night, and
you'll have solutions for thoseproblems because you've
practiced.
(37:40):
Um, one of the things I would dois I would start with the wider
field eyepieces.
Even if you're going to begoing um to do planetary work,
for example and I said you knowyou should be more zoomed in
that isn't the first step, right?
So if you're looking at thislittle patch of sky, any motion
(38:01):
in that telescope is going tomake a huge difference in what
you're looking at because you'reso zoomed in, the magn is too
high and by starting with one ofthose higher millimeter eye
pieces that are lowermagnification.
It provides you a wider fieldof view, which gives you more of
the night sky to work with andyou can find those bright stars
(38:26):
and get them centered and thenzoom in.
You know, and once you orwhatever object you're looking
at, right and the also the thingis, when you zoom in you're
losing the.
The light level is going downRight, if it's a dim object, you
might not want to be zooming inand it's possible you're
(38:47):
putting in too high of amagnification right off the bat.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Ast (38:51):
Yeah , that's something that actually
got me one of the first times,like I really noticed it.
I was trying to zoom in onSaturn, right, and because
Saturn is so bright when youhave it really tiny in your
scope right, like it's almosttoo bright where it's blowing
itself out, and then I did likeI think I did like an eight
millimeter Nagler on a Barlow orsomething like that, and it was
(39:13):
big, but I'm like this is kindof dull, you know, and it really
surprised me.
But the idea is, no matter what, you have the same amount of
light coming through, you eitherhave the light concentrated and
it's smaller for a smaller zoomand a wider field, or you just
kind of spread that out a littlemore thinly if you're zooming
(39:35):
in.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (39:36):
The other thing to consider, though
, is as well when you're zoomingin on something, you're also
going to start to see some ofthe atmospheric effects.
There is a limiting factor basedon your atmospheric conditions
at that moment, and you knowsome places are are great, Uh,
(39:57):
like the location itselfgenerally has better, uh,
atmospheric conditions forviewing.
We call it seeing conditions,um, where, basically, it's the
turbulence in the atmospherethat's affecting your ability to
see.
You know objects, clearly.
I liken it to, on, like a hotsummer day, how you see the
(40:18):
effects of the heat rising fromthe asphalt, but that's
happening up in the atmospherealso, and that would be
atmospheric seeing.
There's also, even if there'snot cloud cover, there is
transparency, you know there'smoisture in the atmosphere, and
that can affect things ahaziness effect, and so as you
(40:41):
zoom in, you're going to pick upmore of the seeing, and
sometimes you need to reallycheck to make sure that what
you're observing isn't theresult of the atmosphere at that
moment.
That it's not your optics, youknow.
And so even if there's notclouds, that doesn't necessarily
(41:03):
mean that it's going to be agood night to observe.
Rob Webb - Last Minute As (41:06):
Right , exactly, and you, I found this
it was really interesting.
Right, exactly, and I foundthis it was really interesting.
The first time I really noticedit was it was a Thanksgiving a
long time ago and I brought mytelescope back home to show my
parents and check it out andthere was this moon.
It was, I think, almost a fullmoon and it was coming up off
the horizon.
And of course, when it's rightlow on the horizon it's orange,
(41:30):
right Like it looks super bigand it's orange.
But because it's low on thehorizon, you can see all the
little wibbly, wobblies, thewavies, right, and I was like
what, what is going on?
This can't be good.
And then I realized no, that'sjust the heat in the atmosphere,
that's the differenttemperature pockets of air, and
since it was low on the horizon,I was looking through more air.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Saf (41:51):
You're looking through about a hundred
times more atmosphere whenyou're looking towards the
horizon than if you're lookingdirectly overhead, at your
zenith, to point directly overyour head.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astr (42:00):
Now don't let that.
You know newbies, don't letthat fool you Like it doesn't
have to be perfectly above you.
Whatever you're looking at tobe good, you just have to find
that balance.
I know Don't let perfect 20degrees.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (42:13):
15 to 20 degrees above the horizon
is like I mean, unless it'ssomething that you're not going
to see otherwise, like, forexample, the Triffid Nebula and
the Lagoon Nebula where I livein Northern Hemisphere, you know
Pennsylvania 40 degreeslatitude, that doesn't get much
higher than that.
It doesn't.
No, it doesn't get any higher.
You're going to either not lookat it or you got to deal with
(42:35):
the atmospheric effects, right.
But if it's an object that doesrise higher, you might want to
look at some other things beforebothering to observe it.
You know, depending on whattime it will take, and you know
there's many astronomy apps outthere that you can use to look
at when those objects are goingto rise higher and such.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astron (42:55):
I think we're down to the very
last and what I call the numberone hobby killer in terms of
astronomy, and that, to me, isthe expectations not matching
the reality.
Yep, is the expectations notmatching the reality, right?
And so I think of this as somepeople go and they buy a
(43:16):
telescope and they see, oh, 200times, and then they think
they're going to look at thering nebula and see what a
Hubble Space Telescope pictureis, right, sure, that's just not
going to happen.
You know, the expectation isthe expectation you should have
should be closer to reality.
Where you're looking at faintfuzzies in the sky, right, like,
(43:38):
it is not going to look thatgreat, unless you're doing the
photography, and that's adangerous place.
There be dragons, okay, but ifyou're doing visual astronomy,
just be aware it's going to beblack and white.
It's going to be black andwhite because, a we're not
getting enough light, b youreyes are going to be dark
adapted, so I forget if it'srods or cones or whatever, but
(44:01):
it switches to night visionafter about 20 minutes in the
dark, so you can only see inblack and white anyway, right?
And you're probably not goingto have the most powerful
telescope.
You don't have a Hubbletelescope.
You just don't.
And even the Hubble telescopeisn't just visual, like it's
taking photography, so just knowthat, like you're seeing
(44:26):
something as it is, and that'sstill incredible.
The thing that I like to sort ofmeditate upon when I'm looking
at stuff in the sky is, ofcourse, I want to look up how
big the thing is, what kind ofobject it is is it a cluster or
whatever?
But the thing that I like to dois I like to look at how far
(44:48):
away is this object?
Because if I'm looking at theAndromeda galaxy and it's what?
Two and a half billion lightyears away, I think something
like that Million, million,million, yeah, million, okay, so
about 2 million light yearsaway, like you're looking at
light that left that galaxy 2million years ago.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Saf (45:09):
You're looking back in time, galaxy 2
million years ago.
Rob Webb - Last Minute A (45:11):
You're looking back in time.
Yeah, like that is incredibleto me and that's where I get the
satisfaction out of this.
Yes, I also get it by takingcool pictures, but I get the
satisfaction of the like.
I'm looking at this, I'mlooking back in time, I'm the
only one seeing those photons.
Those photons traveled 13million or 2 million light years
(45:33):
to get here, right, and I'm theone that's seeing them.
So if you can sort of try tomatch reality to your
expectations, don't let perfectbe the enemy of good.
I think you're going to have alot of fun in this hobby.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (45:48):
You said a few things that I want
to circle back to.
The first one um had to do withdark adaption.
So I think most people arefamiliar with the fact that if
you know you wake up in themiddle of the night after having
slept for a while, that youknow you turn on the bright
lights of, like, your bathroomor something, it's going to
blind you for a moment.
Right, that is effectively whatwe're talking about.
(46:11):
Is your eyes become moresensitive when, maybe 20 to 30
minutes, as Rob said, where youshouldn't be?
You know, looking at your phonescreen, you know you should try
your best to avoid that.
You should try to use a redflashlight only when you're
(46:32):
trying to do things and try tokeep it as dim as possible so
that you can maintain your darkadaption.
And if you ever watch any sortof thing where they're trying to
operate machinery or a jet orsomething or any military
operations, a lot of times theywill use red light to do just
(46:55):
that to keep their dark adaption.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Ast (46:58):
Yeah , I would recommend getting a
headlamp, one of the ones thatgoes around your head.
Those have been.
I have had one of those since Iwas a camp counselor in college
and those things are justphenomenal on many fronts,
absolutely, because whateveryou're looking at is where your
eyes are and those things arejust phenomenal on many fronts?
Dave Farina - Cosmos (47:11):
Absolutely , because whatever you're
looking at is where your eyesare, and that's what matters.
So the other thing youmentioned was like your rods and
your cones, and not to get intothe weeds with this, but I do
want to clarify.
So your eyes do have rods andcones.
The rods are your black andwhite vision, they're also on
(47:32):
the outside of your retina,whereas the cones are your color
vision and they're concentratedtowards the center and then in
the very center of your visionis actually a spot on your
retina that is where your opticnerve connects to your brain and
there's no ability to seeanything there, and so when
(47:52):
you're looking through aneyepiece, especially at
something that is a faint fuzzy,you want to make sure that
you're actually not lookingdirectly at it.
You want to look off to theside a little bit of your
eyepiece, like towards the edge,and use your peripheral vision
we call it adverted vision.
Look through it using thoserods rather than trying to look
(48:17):
at it through the cones, because, a they're more sensitive and,
b there's many more of themInstead of you know, a few
hundred thousand of them.
Like the cones, there's many,many millions of rods, and so
your sensitivity goes updramatically and the objects
will start to come into focus.
(48:37):
It takes some practice.
It's not something that'seasily done early.
I wouldn't recommend it forkids, you know right away.
But you know as you practice.
Try to use adverted vision andyou'll see things more clearly
than you thought.
The last thing I want to kindof circle back to that has to do
(48:59):
with red light and darkadaption, is dark sky sites and
what to expect in your ownneighborhood, depending on your,
your own individual lightpollution levels.
Some objects are simply notbright enough to be able to
compete with light pollution andyour eyes are not capable of
(49:20):
separating that signal and thatnoise from itself.
Right, you're going to have allof that light pollution coming
into your eyes as well and, as aresult, you will not see the
object, even if you try yourhardest.
So yeah, try to, you're notreally going to see the
andromeda galaxy.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astro (49:41):
If you're in the city, like you
might be able to do somephotography, but you're, you're
not going to be able to just seeit, like in the big cities.
You're kind of stuck withplanets, the moon and bright
stars.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safa (49:53):
Would you?
Rob Webb - Last Minute As (49:54):
agree .
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safar (49:55):
Yeah , to some degree.
It depends on the size of yourtelescope and you know you can
get filters.
There are filters that you canuse for your eyes, to light
pollution filters and such, orones that are, you know,
specific wavelengths of lightthat your eyes are capable of
seeing the visual parts of thespectrum.
(50:15):
But you really need to be in adark sky site to see things
properly.
The faint fuzzies at least,yeah, and I realize that not
everybody can get to one ofthose easily all the time, and
that should be taken intoconsideration.
When you go to purchase a scope, try to keep in mind what
(50:37):
you're going to be using it for.
If you don't think it'ssomething you want to try to put
into your car and drive acrossmany miles to get to your dark
sky site because it's just toobig, then maybe you should buy a
smaller scope, you know.
Or if it's something you'regoing to never be able to do,
(50:58):
maybe you should focus onplanetary for a little while,
get used to the process, makesure it's something that you
know you know very well, priorto taking that next step towards
deep sky objects.
So, rob, if you had to pick oneobject to look at for the rest
of your life and that's the onlyobject that you could ever look
(51:19):
at, what would it be and why?
Rob Webb - Last Minute A (51:24):
That's a tough one, because part of me
wants to say the moon, becauseat least you can see a different
part of it all the time and itkind of varies.
However, I feel like Jupiterwould be a little more
entertaining just because it'ssmall.
I can get better at actuallyseeing it, I could learn
(51:46):
planetary astrophotography andI'd love to be able to see more
of the transits and, yeah,transits of the Galilean moons
going across it and the shadowsof those moons going across it.
So it's easy to find in the sky, it's easy to locate.
So I would probably say Jupiter.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safar (52:09):
What about you say Jupiter, what
about you?
I had a really interestingexperience.
I was at Cherry Springs StatePark in Potter County,
pennsylvania, one of the darkestplaces on the east coast of the
United States and it's aninternational dark sky site.
And while I was there there wassomeone on the astronomy field
(52:31):
who had a 36-inch Dobsonian, andAl Nagler was there with
Telview and their one optic isactually a night vision optic
and it's sensitive in theinfrared parts of the spectrum.
(52:53):
And what we did is we placedthat eyepiece in the 36-inch
telescope and we pointed it atbasically an extremely dense
part of the Milky Way, onlyvisible in the summertime for us
in the Northern Hemisphere time, for us in the northern
(53:13):
hemisphere, right towardssagittarius, uh, the basically
the center of our galaxy, andthe view that I was able to see
it sticks with me to this day.
It's very, uh, much like almostlike a spiritual moment for me
and I I really can kind of takemyself back to that moment when
I'm under the stars, andespecially if I get a chance to
(53:35):
look at the Lagoon or TriffidNebula, because that's what we
mostly looked at while we werethere, and part of me also wants
to say the eclipse because, ifthat's allowed in our discussion
here, the eclipse was probablythe most moving to me and
(53:56):
probably the most spiritual I'veever felt.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Ast (54:00):
Yeah , yeah, I can't really disagree
with you there.
I'm excited for the next one.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safar (54:07):
It's within what?
Two weeks of our podcast here.
We're quickly approaching it.
I'm kind of still not realizinghow close it is, and you know
I'll be traveling to indiana injust a few days and it's gonna
be amazing.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astro (54:24):
So the eclipse yeah, it's kind of
nerve-wracking, I'll be honest,because I still have a lot, have
a lot of work to do for myautomation and stuff, but I do
have a lot prepared.
I'm trying to give myself somepositive vibes too.
I do have a lot prepared, but Iknow the programming and the I
don't know.
I get very anxious at thesesorts of times.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (54:46):
By the time this podcast airs, it
will have already occurred, andI think it's important that we
have a discussion afterwardabout our experience.
Rob Webb - Last Minu (54:54):
Absolutely .
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safa (54:55):
Stick around to find out if Dave
survives a final round of lastminute trivia.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astro (55:04):
So let's do some more trivia.
I have three more questions foryou.
We're going to switch back tothe refractors.
Okay, what major developmenthappened to them in 1733?
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (55:21):
I would guess that in 1700s they
started to put multiple lensestogether to make doublet and
triplet telescopes, which wouldhelp to reduce the effects of
chromatic aberration.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astr (55:40):
I'm going to give that to you.
I'm going to give that to you.
The correct answer is theachromatic lens.
Yeah, it's a doublet, which isbasically a doublet right.
So the idea is that once theydid that, they were able to
again, like you said, reduce thecolor aberrations and it
allowed for shorter and morefunctional telescopes.
(56:02):
And it first appeared in 1770,sorry, 1733 in a telescope made
by Chester Moore Hall, and hedid not publicize it at all.
I couldn't tell you why, butthen John Doland learned of the
invention and then beganproducing telescopes using that
in commercial quantities,starting in 1758.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (56:27):
So just to clarify chromatic
aberration is the effect of whenyou see colors that shouldn't
be there, especially with brightobjects, where it almost gives
you this rainbow effect, becausewhat's happening is the
different colors of light arepassing through the glass and as
(56:47):
they pass through the glassthey're spread out just like a
prism.
And that effect is notdesirable, right, it's not
something you want, and so justto fix that they take more than
one lens and they pancake themtogether.
Um, sometimes they're spacingbetween them, sometimes it's
(57:07):
like stuck together.
Uh, sometimes they have oil inbetween, sometimes it's just air
and there's all sorts ofdifferent designs.
But the whole point of it isgetting rid of those rainbowy
like effects, right, pretty muchI've actually seen them.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astro (57:22):
Uh , even with like a little
reflector, that I've had alittle 50 reflector, that is
pretty good for a basic amount.
Uh, you can actually look at j,at Jupiter, and you can see a
little blue on one side and redon the other side, like that.
That happens All right.
So now, second question Afterthe Casagrain reflector and the
(57:43):
achromatic lenses, what was thenext big redesign of the
telescope?
And I have a hint, if you getstuck it was invented around
1910, but not widely adopteduntil after 1950.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (58:00):
It was the Schmidt corrector.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astro (58:03):
No , although I bet you that
probably happened after, butit's not as big as this one.
What was the hint?
From what I can tell, the hintis that it's used on the Hubble
Space Telescope.
Ooh, stumped him.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (58:15):
I don't know.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astr (58:17):
All right, it is the Ritchie-Cretin
variant of the CassegrainReflector, like I said, invented
in 1910, adopted after 1950,and, yeah, they start using this
a lot more, especially on manymodern telescopes.
It gets a wider field of viewthan the classic cassock rain.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safar (58:40):
Okay , if you have an interest,
something that you really wouldlike to learn more about, please
consider asking us in thecomments.
We're more than happy to try tomake sure that the podcast is
moving in the direction that youguys, our viewers, our
listeners are interested in.
(59:02):
So please feel free to contactus.
If you're interested in everasking any questions of our
guests, we also have a Patreon.
And if you're interested inasking asking any questions of
our guests, we also have aPatreon and you know, if you're
interested in asking a question,we'll kind of list who's going
to be on next over on Patreon sothat you can know what's coming
and get a chance to askquestions of the experts.
Rob Webb - Last Minute Astr (59:25):
All right.
So, as we're wrapping up thepodcast, Dave, I would just like
to leave the audience with justone last piece of advice, and I
know mine would be to get atelescope that you're going to
use and go ahead and use it.
Don't let perfect be the enemyof good.
Dave Farina - Cosmos Safari (59:45):
I would say that you need to be
patient with yourself and to tryto find others to enjoy the
hobby with.
That can either learn with youor help you with the process,
and those local astronomy clubsare one of the best places to
start.
If you're still listening andlike this podcast, please
(01:00:07):
consider becoming one of ourPatreon patrons.
Memberships start as low as $3per month, with benefits
including opportunities to askquestions of our guests.
Also, please consider liking,subscribing and sharing this
podcast to help us bring theuniverse even closer than you
think.
The podcast will be availableevery third Tuesday of the month
(01:00:27):
.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.