May 21, 2025 • 48 mins
What makes a family truly toxic, and how do we navigate these painful relationships? During Mental Health Awareness Month, we tackle this challenging question head-on with the help of our recurring guest Steve, a therapist who brings professional insight to our candid conversation.
The distinction between normal family friction and genuine toxicity becomes clear as we explore patterns that fundamentally disrupt family functioning. It's rarely about isolated incidents, but rather consistent behaviors stemming from untreated mental illness, substance abuse, or cycles of emotional harm. Many of us don't recognize these dynamics until adulthood, when we suddenly gain perspective and realize our childhood experiences weren't as normal as we once believed.
Our discussion takes a practical turn as we share strategies for managing relationships with difficult family members. Sometimes it means accepting their limitations and adjusting your expectations accordingly. As Steve wisely notes, "If you want to keep someone in your life, you have to know what you're dealing with." Other times, it means making the difficult choice to create distance for your own wellbeing. We explore both approaches with honesty and nuance.
Perhaps most powerfully, we examine how these family patterns perpetuate across generations—and how they can be broken. The personal stories shared reveal both the pain of toxic upbringings and the determination to parent differently. "I use the way I was raised as a blueprint of what not to do," one host confesses, while another speaks about ensuring his daughters "know how they want to be treated and loved." These moments of vulnerability highlight the possibility of transformation, even from the most challenging family origins.
Whether you're currently struggling with difficult family relationships or working to ensure you don't repeat harmful patterns, this episode offers both validation and practical wisdom. Listen, reflect, and remember: you're not alone in navigating these complex waters.
Hosted by: Cottman, Crawford & The Jersey Guy
Contact us: CCandNJGuy@gmail.com
Links & socials: https://linktr.ee/ccandnjguy
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to Cotton and Crumple and the Jersey Guy
Podcast.
How's everybody doing tonight?
Speaker 3 (00:10):
All right, all right all right.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Doing good, doing good.
Speaker 4 (00:13):
We got our friend Steve back on.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Is it number four or number?
Speaker 4 (00:17):
five.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Yeah four.
I'm still waiting for my jacket.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Yeah, we got to make it Like on SNL we're still
working on it.
Speaker 4 (00:24):
We'll be the Alec Baldwin, like on SNL.
No, we're still working on it.
Yeah, it'd be the Alec.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Baldwin on this one.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
yeah, it was still working, at least like a cameo
in the picture or something likethat.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
I just don't draw too good, so I can't make a jacket
with the markers Next time.
Yeah, funny.
So what's going on?
Fellas, everybody's good.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Yeah, we're good.
What's today's topic?
Who?
This is really Tom's topic.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
Tom's topic.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
He's the one who brought it up.
He was the one who said weshould do a topic on toxic
family members.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
Yeah, I think it's an important topic.
I think we kind of he's parents, that kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
So yeah, that's a good one for me to come back to,
bro.
That's why we have our guestswith us.
Yes, very helpful with thatstuff.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
All right.
So, for those who don't know,stephen is a therapist, so he
always gives good insight oncertain topics like this, so
it's great to have him on forthis part.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
So you see the sports of therapy.
Yeah, tonight, tonight.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
We are going to have him back on, we're going to be
talking about sports again.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Uh, we, you know it's a fun topic for us to talk, for
sure.
So this will be, then that'llbe sports therapy sports therapy
.
Right, there we go.
Yeah, yeah, I think.
I, I think, if you have, if,you have rooting for two
different teams.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
You have a toxic.
There's the.
My wife was a Yankee fan.
We'd have a toxic family.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
But when you say sports therapy, I think of like
physical therapy.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Well, it'll be mental therapy yeah yeah, yeah.
Sports mental therapy, by theway, this is Mental Health
Awareness Month.
Oh, is it?
Okay it is, so let's make surewe remain.
I thought that was in June, sothat's very important especially
with this episode.
But toxic family members we allhave one I have probably
(02:10):
several, me too, me three, yeah,we all do, we all do, but then
okay, so what are we going tosay is toxic?
Well, yes, like, what would be?
What would be the definition ofa toxic?
I would say benevolence.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
You know what I mean.
Okay, you know what.
I mean Okay, you know what Imean you know just not being you
know kind Okay, it's more thanjust not getting along.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
It's more than just being, you know, like having
siblings that have, you know,different views on life.
I mean, a toxic family would besomething that was really very
destructive to the foundation ofa family.
Okay, you know whether it's aresult of, you know, somebody's
mental illness or substanceabuse or abusive behavior.
(02:54):
I mean, those are the bigfactors.
Or all of the above or all ofthe above right I mean yeah, I
mean, addiction is a diagnosablemental illness.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
Right.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
You know, like having those things in the roots of
the family really is where thattoxicity would typically come
from.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Or even your new family, if you have an in-laws.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah, yeah, and you marry into a family where one of
the parents is, you know, analcoholic or a drug addict, or
has a serious mental illness andit disrupts the ability to
function in a productive manneryour family.
It bleeds in If you you knowyou marry into somebody and
they're.
(03:39):
You know your spouse's.
You know your spouse's mom hasalways been abusive.
You know that comes into yourhouse.
You know you deal with it.
Now you deal with therelationship that your spouse
has with her family.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Something new to juggle in your life.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
You know going to dinner, you know going to
holiday dinners they're notpeaceful and quiet, absolutely
you know, I always, you know,when, years ago, you know, I
worked in in the recovery shieldand worked in rehabs and we did
a lot of stuff, you know,especially like around the
holiday times there was likeChristmas, thanksgiving,
christmas and New Year's, likethe Bermuda triangle of of
(04:15):
dysfunctional families and andyou had you know it's, it didn't
age well, but we used to alwaystalk about like everyone,
everyone thought their familywas going to be the Cosby's
right, right, you know pre billdrugging and dating and raping
people, but you know how thatfamily was always presented, and
the reality is is most familieswere like the Bundy's you know,
(04:35):
or the, you know the, the, thedrunk uncle who was, you know,
fighting with you or somethinglike that, or somebody stealing
from everyone's pocketbooks.
There was, you know, that wasmore.
That was more what wasrealistic than that wholesome
family, the Waltons.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
I guess that's better than I guess that's better than
the Waltons, which is not youknow, that's of course you know
it's never going to be like that, you know.
So I guess there are familieswho don't have as much, but they
have something right we all do.
I mean.
I mean I, you know I could, aswe're sitting here talking, I'm
going through shit in my head.
Oh yeah, of course, of course,just you know.
(05:13):
Yeah, I mean rewind the tapes.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
Yeah, I feel like I, I would find it hard to believe
that there would be like afamily that exists, that is like
, just like, like we said, thewaltons are like you know, like
everybody has their shit man,you know what I mean?
Like there's always gonna, evenif it's not the intermediate
family.
There's gonna be that likeweird uncle, you know
everybody's got the.
I mean that's like the on, likethat's like a, like an internet
term now, like having like theuncle, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Like that you know if we're talking like toxic
families a toxic family, itreally it invades you know I
keep using the word functioningright, it invades the
functioning of the family.
We're not.
Yeah, I think every family hastheir issues at times.
I think I have a great familywith my wife and kids but, you
(06:01):
know, prior to them getting alittle bit older, I don't think
there's a vacation that I didn'tsay.
I'm never going on vacationwith you guys again.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
That became like the running joke, because they would
do something.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
You know they would do something to piss me off.
So, like you know, I wouldn't,I wouldn't say that my family,
you know when my wife and kidswas toxic.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
We just we had her, we had our issues sometimes,
yeah, right, right, but yeah,that's true, that's true, that's
true.
That is a big difference.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Yeah, yeah, of course , because I mean, like, for me,
I've always thought of it asjust this is how we grew up,
this is just what it was.
You know what I mean.
This is what it was growing upin the neighborhood and you see
the other families and you knowthe kids are, you know it,
things that we said, the thingsthat we did, you know the ass
whoopings that were handed out.
We never thought of it, as youknow, being toxic with that
(06:49):
uncle, like, ah, that's just howhe is.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
And I'm supposed to be touched like that.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
Yeah, right, yeah, the thing is too is like when
you're a kid, you don't haveperspective.
Right you don't say like well,this is how a family should grow
well, this is how a familyshould grow.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
You just like oh this is doesn't everybody kind of
yeah, exactly yeah, and I didn'tfind out that someone else
later in life.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
And there you go right, or or when you're raising
your own kid and you know, ohshit, wait, wait, something was
not right about my childhood.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
How come you know trying to do my best to raise a
child, yeah well, the worstthing is like you come from a
dysfunctional family and youstart dating somebody from a
normal family and you're like,but like nobody gets smacked at
dinner yeah, yeah, right,exactly, yeah like how come
nobody's through anything?
Speaker 3 (07:36):
we threw anything, I mean what the hell's going?
Speaker 1 (07:38):
on here nice conversation, yeah right or even
worse having a toxic you knowdysfunction in your family and
then marrying somebody or beingwith somebody who has a
dysfunction in their family.
So now and when you see theirfamily, you're like holy shit,
my family is good compared tothat.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're like all of a sudden, my
family's not the crazy, myfamily's not the crazy family
anymore, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Yeah, that's funny, bro, I didn't.
I didn't even think about thatpart word again.
So now, when do you I guesswe'll say, when you realize or
think about your family and howtoxic they may be, or just one
or two of those people, do youend up cutting them off?
(08:20):
Do you try to work with them?
To you know, say this they cansee the error of their ways, I
guess.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
You know, I guess it depends on on what you want to
do as the, as the person I mean.
Like you know, I you know I hadissues with my brother who
recently passed away andfortunately we we were able to
repair things and when before hepassed away, and but I always
wanted to keep him in my lifeand I always wanted to keep my
(08:46):
niece and my nephew and mysister-in-law in my life and
with my kids and you know.
So you just kind of you makechoices as to when you're going
to see them and stuff like that.
I mean, like there were times Iavoided going to them because I
knew if I went we would getinto an argument.
And I didn't want to get intoan argument because we did
better when we didn't see we didbetter when we didn't see each
(09:09):
other sometimes you know, but Iguess there's gotta be you know,
I know when I work with withpeople was that was that me.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
No, it was Amazon.
Oh, it was Amazon.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
So people from dysfunctional.
I always say like you have tolike, if you want to have, if
you make a choice that you wantthis person in your life, then
you have to accept their illnessor whatever, whatever their
issues are.
You have to know what you'redealing with, right If you're,
if you're, if you will.
Just you know if, if your momdoesn't know how to show
(09:41):
affection or praise to you,right, but you love her because
she's your mom and you want tohave a relationship, you have to
know, going in, that whenyou're going to see her, you
can't look for that stuff, right, cause you're not going to get
that Right.
You're going to tell her aboutyour new job and your promotion
and she'll be like oh, oh, okay.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
You can't do better than that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, that wasall you got.
So you have to know who you'redealing with and what their
limitations are.
The same way, if you're dealingwith somebody with addiction or
somebody who steals from you,don't set yourself up, don't
walk out of the room with yourwallet on the table, because
when you come back it'll be gone.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Right, yeah, and stuff like that, or empty, yeah,
right.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
So just make sure you know what you're getting into,
because it's important to have arelationship with our parents
or our siblings, or you know ourfamily, that we, you know that
you want to love them.
You want to have thatrelationship.
You just you have to if you'rethe healthy one.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
You have to know what you're getting into, and you do
that.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
You can't right once you do that like if you make a
decision like I'm going to keepthis person in my life and right
and now I sorry, so I'm goingto keep this person in my life.
I know who they are, I knowwhat they're about and I know
all this stuff.
It's like I kind of can't getmad when they do it, because I
know they enjoy.
You don't get mad, but youdon't get mad at a baby for
shitting in a diaper.
It's what they do If they're 17and they're shitting in their
(11:07):
diaper that's a problem unlessthere's other issues there.
So just make sure you know whatyour expectations are.
That can make things a loteasier and limit your time.
Limit your time You're notgoing to spend eight hours with
somebody on a holiday.
That kind of sets you off.
But you can go for coffeeafterwards you know, or
(11:30):
something like that, and justkind of keep them involved and
whatever way you're okay with.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Right, right, I mean it.
It also depends on how longit's been going on for too right
, and how long have you beenputting up for, and how long
have you been doing that already?
Because that happens too right,you're like okay, I'm done, now
I'm going to set the rules andthis is how it's going to be.
Oh, you want to see the baby?
Well, no, I'm not coming to you, you're going to have to come
to me, you know, like then youget to the point where you
(12:05):
smarten up and you're like allright, I'm not doing that
anymore.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
You want to see him, you're going to come.
If you don't, then you're out.
Yeah, you're stuck, and I guessit also depends on you know
what the issue is.
Again, if you're dealing with,what are you going to do?
You're going to keep themaround, the same way, as you
know, as they get older and theystart.
(12:29):
You know parents, you know ifthey have to go into nursing
homes, they start battlingdementia.
Are you going to cut them offbecause they don't remember you
anymore?
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Yeah, Well, I don't know, but then that would be
different.
That wouldn't be so much thatthey're toxic, it's a mental
illness, like you said.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
It's just something that they can't even help, but
still, mental illness can makethe relationship toxic yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
So because of the behavior, I never thought that
Alzheimer's or something likethat would be Well, only because
it's.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
I just use that as an example.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
As far as like the behavior.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Okay, certainly the reason is just the behavior.
I would think it would only beworse or harder on you if you
didn't have a good relationshipwith that parent in the first
place.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Right and then they got Alzheimer's.
And now that makes it harder,because you already have
animosity against them orwhatever's going on.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Or it could be the opposite way, and then you might
be more tolerant of it.
You know what I mean.
You're like.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
I know that's not my dad, and there are times
sometimes you just have to cutpeople out of your life because
they're not they're just nothealthy for you and and and
you're not willing or able toaccept what's going on.
You're not willing or able totolerate the behavior that they
give back at you, and you'rebetter off not having them in
your life.
I mean it's sad, but you dealwith it and you move on and you
(13:43):
live your life and you fill yourlife with people that needs,
your needs, right, right, youknow and you let the good
relationships and the positiverelationships and your life
flourish.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Yeah, and you don't want to keep doing that, because
then you're going to have tohold yourself responsible at
some point.
Well, I think know it's.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
It's a act of self-preservation.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
You know what I mean is you know, you hear a lot of
people, especially when you knowpeople will go in no contact
with, like maybe a parent orsomething like that.
You'll hear people say well,you know, you only get one
moment right, yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah whatever if they're gonna
be toxic they're gonna beproblematic, then, what are you
gonna do know, and there's noway to fix it.
Then what are you going?
Speaker 2 (14:27):
to do Right and listen.
You know relationships with.
You know the relationships thatparents have with their kids
has changed over the generations.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
You know, I think, fortunately I mean we all have
kids right, yes, right I meanlike we're in the generation now
where we're very open andaffectionate to our children.
And we tell them that we lovethem all the time, we do stuff
with them.
You know they're still our kids, but we're friendly with them
and stuff like that Whereas youknow like maybe our parents'
parents or our grandparents,like it was, there wasn't that
(14:58):
kind of relationship.
Right, you know it was.
You know I'm your father, Igive you food.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Yeah, yeah, relationship, right, you know it
was, you know your father, Igive you food.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, there wasn't there wasn't
.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
What do you mean?
You want me to cuddle?
You know what I love you.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
You know like I think that's, we evolved into that
and I think that's great, youknow I right, yeah, so we still
have room for improvement andculture, cultures too like some
cultures right now it's, it'sthe families, or just it's.
It's very's colder, it's not asaffectionate, and but they sort
of you know that's just howthey are, that's what they know,
so it doesn't mean Easterncultures or maybe you know
(15:33):
Eastern European cultures, maybe.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
I don't know I'm trying to think of stereo.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
I'm a stereotype.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
But, you know, I don't know.
I'm sure every place you go I'mstereotypical, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it's way different thanwe do.
Yeah, right, as far as how wedeal with things.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Because I mean for deal with things, because I mean
for me half black and halfrican, and on both sides there's
.
You know, we've always givenlove.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
You know what I mean it's always the hug and a kiss
and the reviews and yeah I hadall that stuff so more.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
There's probably more cultures that are like that
than there are we.
Just, I think the united statesis kind of like in between,
because we're we're like amelting pot of cultures, right,
but like, right, but like.
European cultures are like that, like you said, like, probably
like, like latino cultures arelike that, where like, but like
I don't know.
It's weird like some culturesare just like.
They're like not warm it's yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Well, it doesn't mean .
Speaker 1 (16:33):
It doesn't mean that they don't love each other
that's just how they operate,yeah, yeah, yeah, that's just
the way you know, like they'remore.
You know, just being present isis considered, you know, yeah,
like they're more.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
You know, just being present is is considered, you
know, yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Cause I mean and now you're saying that, though, too
because when my kids were inschool and you know you had to
go and give them lunch moneyCause we forgot to give it to
him in the morning, whatever Ishould over there and give him
my you know, have my son comedown to the office and he'd give
me a hug and a kiss and I said,all right, boy, I love you, kid
and whatever.
And the ladies in the officestopped and I'm like is
(17:07):
everything okay?
They're like that is beautifulthat the son tells you.
I'm like because he's got nochoice, because that's how I
raised him.
I'm his father, that's how Iwas raised, yeah.
You give me love every time Isee you and vice versa.
Give me a hug and a kiss, youknow what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
You grew up in a Jewish household.
Listen up until my parents.
Besides my brother passing awayin January, my mother passed
away in March and my dad lastMay.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Sorry bro.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
But prior to them, I mean, there wasn't a phone call
that didn't end with I love you,right.
So on both, on both parts, mydad was.
I love you, boy, and you knowand I do that with my, with my
daughters and and you know Idon't leave the house.
You know, when they're both home, I don't leave the house
without knocking on the door andtelling them you know, I'm just
running out, I love you, I'mgoing to work, I love you, it's
(17:59):
oh, it's always, yeah, it'salways there.
I don't, I don't go to sleepwithout giving them you know,
saying good night and tellingthem I love them.
Yeah, so, and that's not every.
I think I'd mention this.
Maybe one of the other episodesI was on is there was one time
my daughter was about like myyounger daughter's, like around
10 or 11, and she and her friendwere just like gonna go out to
the park to play and and I said,okay, be careful, I love you.
(18:21):
And then my daughter came backlater and said, said her friend
asked her is your dad tells youhe loves you?
And she was like yeah, all thetime.
So I never hear that yeah, soit doesn't mean, her parents
didn't love her.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
No, no, no, they just don't, they don't say it yeah,
right, and then it's like it's,it's like culture, like showing
you know, you know, displayingaffection, might be considered
you know who knows the culturethey come from.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
Weak or like just not like a thing, right yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
You don't do that to the boys.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
I mean even at 60,.
You know, if I was downvisiting, I'd give my parents a
kiss goodnight, I mean it wasjust what.
It wasn't even just what youdid.
It's what, like, you wanted todo.
Right, it was like it was youloved, I was affectionate to
them Anytime.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
I saw my aunts or my cousins when they came in from
someplace, you know, usually itwas from California or then, or
we went to Maryland and everytime you see someone you know,
you always say hello.
You have kids, you know, evenyour cousins.
Whatever you know, it's just.
It was just the way you werebrought up, you know.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Yeah, like, even for us in Spanish culture, you ask
I'm trying to say how to say itte pide bendición, you're asking
for the blessing, the love.
So you know, when you go andyou see like grandma or whatever
, say oh bendición, or grandpa,or whatever Right, or your
parents like oh bendición.
Now my kids, it didn't takewith them, no matter how much I,
you know, like yo, just whatyou have to say to grandma, just
(19:42):
what you have to say to grandmaor grandpa, they just it just
never took, you know, and theywould say it like in English,
but they wouldn't say it inSpanish, that it was I'm like
man.
So of course, you know theparents are like you.
Don't teach your kids that I'mlike I try to teach them that.
Only I can't beat it to them,you know.
But yeah, even like, even still.
I said I talked to my parentsand it's that you know, asking
(20:03):
for, like I said, just askingfor, it's like asking for a
blessing, you know Right, andyeah, I think that for me, I
still hug my son and give him akiss.
(20:25):
Right, right, right.
The like we said, you knowbeing talking about toxic
relationships.
It's like, even with all that,when you had that, the negative,
you still I can't stand you,but I love you, bendy.
You know I'm saying it was likealways that because I never
thought of it as being toxicwith certain behaviors okay, we
want to love our parents, wewant to love our children, right
?
Speaker 2 (20:44):
we want to love our siblings, right?
I mean, that's what we're,that's what we're taught, we're
brought up to that and just it,just situate it's like
repetitive situations thathappen.
That makes the relationshiptoxic.
Okay, because it's.
It's not somebody doingsomething one time right unless
it's, you know, unless like yourbrother's, like banging your
wife.
Right, right, right, the firsttime you catch him like that can
(21:05):
kind of do it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but like likejust the behaviors, it's just,
it's repetitive, and then wejust kind of get tired of it.
But you know, but you don'twant that Like you don and I
want to hate my parents Right.
You know, like it's just aseries of events that occur that
you just kind of say, like thisisn't right, I don't know why
(21:26):
is this happening.
And I bring it to you and Itell you like, hey, when you do
this, I feel like this.
And then they're like, well,screw you, I'm going to keep
doing it anyway.
That's when it becomes toxic,right, it's, you know.
They keep, you know, sayinghurtful things.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Or they'll, and then if they drink or drug, then it's
worse, right, because they canbecome more abusive.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
Right, because they're meaner, like that Right
yeah, you know that old saying.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
I always believe that when someone says something
when they're drunk 90% of thetime.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
That's a Chinese proverb, like a drunk man's
thoughts or a sober man's words.
Right or a drunk man's words ora sober man's thoughts.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Yeah, okay, write it backwards, exactly.
So now, when you go with thosetoxic people in the family, do
you tell them as you're cuttingthem off.
You know what I mean.
Like you know what.
I don't want to talk to youanymore because you've done this
, this and the third.
I've had it up to here withthat.
You know what?
Bye-bye.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
I just shut it down.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Yeah, I mean, if you're making an effort I didn't
have to say anything.
If you're making an effort totry and repair the relationship
or have open, honest dialoguewith somebody and they're not
responding to it, I think justat some point you just walk away
.
And what's the purpose oftelling them?
Well, like, sometimes, like wealways like say, like I know
(22:46):
what you're going to say, I'mgoing to read your mind.
You say, well, I want to atleast tell them what I think I
want to get how.
I feel, and you know at somepoint you're just you're not
going to get the response thatyou want and it just makes
things worse.
So just walk away on your termsand if they can't figure it out
(23:08):
, that's part of the problem tooisn't it Right, like if I
stopped talking to somebodywho's toxic to me and they can't
figure it out.
One is they probably won'tnotice for a long time.
Yeah, they probably won'tnotice that, like well, I
haven't spoken to Steve in awhile.
Right, you know because becauseit'll a while and then they'll
probably call you up or text youlike hey, would you lose my
phone number, or something likethat, or is your phone broken,
(23:31):
Like they won't sit back and saylike, hey, you know what?
I haven't spoken to Steve in awhile?
That's probably because I'm ashit to him.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
You know like they're not going to say that, but see,
we also grow up in a time ofwhere shooting the dozens was
the funnies.
You know I'm saying like wewill sit there and we laugh and,
just you know, get on eachother and tell jokes.
So then is your one friendwho's quote-unquote better at it
than you are?
Would that be then consideredthe toxic?
Because?
Speaker 2 (23:55):
but usually you're- telling somebody at some point,
like, like you know, you're notjust cutting them off, like you
know, I, I think you should tell, should tell like, if it's you
and I right, and like I'm thetoxic person to you, at some
point you should say to me hey,like you know, steve, like I
don't, like when you do this, Idon't like when you talk like
this to me, I know you thinkyou're joking and it's funny,
(24:16):
but it's really hurtful to me,right?
You tell me that once or twice.
If I keep doing it, obviously Idon't respect what you're
saying, right?
So then you make a decision orI realize oh wow, like I didn't
realize, I didn't realize I wasbeing that offensive, I'm sorry,
and it and doesn't happen again.
Right, but if it keepshappening, then I would just
(24:37):
tell you to, just, you know,walk away and not even tell me,
because I'm not listening to youto begin with right, right,
right, and you know it also too.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
It's not only toxic with people that you had a
relationship, but it's alsopeople that you used to have
ties to say like it's an ex orsomething like that, but you,
it's something when you wereoriginally dealing with them in
the beginning and they would andwhatever they would do, they
would drink and they would geteven more abusive and whatever,
and you would just deal with it.
And then, when you were apart,things got.
(25:07):
You know, you split apart rightNow.
You got to deal with it thatway and then you got the kids
involved, right.
So the one thing I had to learnhow to do and it took me a
while, but I figured it out wasnot to respond to whatever they
say.
The minute you go back and youget into that, they want you to
come back at them so they canengage in that fucking that
(25:29):
toxic thing.
But when you don't give it tothem, you, you, you solve them.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
Right, exactly, right , exactly.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
You really do, and and it feels better to do that
honestly yeah, Than it is, Imean, than it is.
I mean, of course it feels goodto say something to somebody.
Go fuck yourself.
You want to tell them that, butbut it doesn't do anything.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Exactly you tell me to go fuck myself and I just say
something back to you.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
But if I cut you straight off, that's going to do
something.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
That's the other problem, too, is they're going
to turn against you, and now youlook what you do you cut them
off Nothing.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
You don't give them anything, no matter what they
say, what they write, whateverit is, you just do not respond.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
And Tom, you know Tom brought up a good point earlier
was that when we're kids wejust kind of go with the flow.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
Yeah, yeah, we think everything is normal, yeah
that's.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
I never got beat.
I probably count on one handthe times that both my parents
have ever spanked me orsomething like that.
But you know, if you're youknow you're a kid and your
parents are beating you on aconsistent basis, you don't like
.
You figure like well, they'remy parents, they're allowed to
do that, they're supposed to dothat, whatever it's not until,
(26:42):
or they talk, they irrationallypunish me, or something like
that.
It's not until you get a littlebit older and you have a little
bit more experience, like youwere saying, where you start
realizing like that wasn't, likewhat they did wasn't cool.
And you know, sometimes yourealize like, well, maybe they
just didn't know.
Like you know, they did thebest they can, they did all best
(27:03):
they can, they did all thatthey knew, and it's not good
enough for me.
Now, and as an adult, you getto be responsible for your own
life, right?
So it's not about blaming yourparents or your aunts or your
uncles or stuff like that.
It's about realizing okay, Iwas brought up in this
environment.
I was brought up in thisenvironment and it wasn't
healthy.
I didn't like it.
I can do something differentabout it now.
I won't ever raise my kids likethat.
(27:23):
I'll be loving and supporting.
I'm not going to use corporalpunishment on them.
I'm never going to lay a handon them.
I'm going to identify myfeelings.
I'm going to be verbal.
I'm going to do all that stuffand if I can't do it by myself,
I'm going to seek help to dothat, because I don't want to be
that person right.
It's, you know, when you see itjust become like a generational
thing.
(27:43):
It's people just not takingresponsibility for, for what
they can do for themselves today.
Right, that's the big.
It's never.
It's not about blame, as init's.
It's kind of like as an adultwe don't have the right to blame
people.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Oh, right Right.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
We don't have the right because we have the
ability to make changes Right asa, as a child.
We don't Mm-hmm.
We don't, we don't have thatYou're responsible now.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Yeah, no that makes sense.
Yeah, I grew up in an alcoholicfamily.
Okay, but there's treatment now.
Right you can do somethingabout your alcoholism.
You can do something about yourmental health issues.
They have to, you know maystruggle with it, but you can do
something about it.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
Yeah, definitely, definitely can.
Yeah, I get like you said.
I get it now.
I mean, it makes sense.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
You know, I really seriously didn't even, you know,
think about it.
I'm sure you grew up in thenormal as far as, like in my
house it was toxic Because myparents let's just put it this
way the situation altogether wasa fucking mess.
Now when you look at it now,when I was in it and here's a
good guy you were just saying Iwas in the middle of it and you
know I had aunt barbara, mom anddad.
Okay, if everybody can't figurethat out, then yeah, but that
(28:57):
whole time until I finallyfigured it out, I thought that
was normal.
I did right when I went tosomeone else's house.
I'm like you know, I didn'tknow if someone came to my house
.
I didn't think about it asbeing something bad because I or
you know whatever, right, butthat's how it was.
That's where I grew up, right?
You know what I mean.
But so, and that was toxic initself.
(29:18):
You doesn't necessarily have tobe toxic in the sense where
you're being, I mean, if I'm asfar as something actually being
done to you when there's theenvironment around you is toxic
just because of therelationships going on in the
house and things like that.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
And again, we think when we hear, when we use words
like toxic, we think likeexplosive and everything's like
that happens to them all.
Right, yeah, but it doesn'thave to be, it could just be.
It could be real quiet becausepeople don't talk.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
That too Right.
That's a toxic environment.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
You know, it's just not Again.
It's like that repetitivebehavior that interrupts the
functioning of a family.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
Right.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
And you know you can get sucked into it.
When I was with my first wifethe toxic and her family alone,
I mean we were bothdysfunctional, we should have
never been together.
But but that is what it is, weare and we, you know we are, we
are where we are.
But when I look at it, and Ilook at just the fact that there
(30:19):
was two people's worlds, I wassaying earlier and it it
collided.
Now it's even more toxic.
Now, right, so you're gettingit from her family and my family
and you know it's like, andthen you get stuck in it Because
, almost like you feel likeyou're trapped.
There was a point where youwere afraid to walk away or
whatever.
And then finally you know, andthen you have to re-fucking,
find yourself again.
(30:40):
And of course, you're young,because I was super young when
it happened.
So, and again what you weresaying earlier, I said people
have it when they're young.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
They have no life experience.
She didn't have any lifeexperience, right?
You don't?
Speaker 1 (30:52):
fucking know what to do and if your parents aren't
telling you or getting it fromsomewhere else, maybe you did.
Well, I'm sure you had like agood grandma or grandpa or
somebody or somebody you thathad more logic and treated you
differently, like my grandmother.
I loved her.
My mother's mother was awesome.
I had a great relationship withher.
You know so that for her shewas always kind and nice and
loving to me and you know itwasn't like the yelling hey,
fuck you, bob.
(31:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah.
That's what was I'm thinking ofthat toxicity too.
You know what I mean, on top ofthe yelling and the screaming.
But some people you know.
Like he said, obviously you cansit and not talk to.
I've had that too.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
So yeah, and if you don't do something about it, you
know you seek those kind ofpeople in your life too, like if
you find that normal, which iskind of what happened to you
right, right, like you werebrought up in that, in that
environment, and you didn'trealize how, how messed up it
was and and who'd you wind upmarrying right, your relation,
your relationship was you soughtsomebody who just kind of fit
(31:51):
that mold, right?
Speaker 1 (31:53):
you know it's like and that's just for my family
being the way they were fromthat family.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
But it was just the same thing.
But it's like right, you know.
It's like if you, if, if youdon't, if you don't think
anything's wrong and you have anabusive parent, you're going to
try and hook up with somebodywho's kind of abusive, right,
you know.
So I always send my daughtersthe meme like my kids, my girls,
are going to have the reverseof daddy issues.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
You know, like they're going to know how to be,
how they want to be treated andloved and respected and all
that stuff.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
Right exactly.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Yeah, right, expected and all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
But yeah, if you don't think there's anything
wrong, you're never told that'swrong, you'll find the same kind
of people right, and then whenyou're out of it, you can kind
of it takes time.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
You never realize how bad things are until you're out
of it.
And then you're like Like youstart, like you're out of a
toxic or chaotic relationshipand it takes, you know, days and
weeks and months to realizelike, wow, like nobody's yelling
at me, right like you know likeI could put something simple as
like I can leave something inthe fridge and I get to eat it
later right like people likepeople.
Speaker 4 (32:56):
Like people respect my stuff, yeah and you know what
happens too sometimes withpeople is that they're so used
to a toxic like family that theygo to a normal family and they
start creating chaos it's notnormal, it's fucking, you know,
this is the something's wronghere, they start creating chaos.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
I hear, you, hear that right, that's all, and
they're supposed to say thefuck's going on, yeah, yeah,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Did you hear what did ?
Speaker 4 (33:21):
you hear what he said to you.
Because chaos is so normal tosome people, because they live
in a chaotic family, that theywill create chaos, because it
feels weird to have normalcy.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Because normalcy isn't normal.
It's uncomfortable.
What is going on here?
It's uncomfortable, it's superuncomfortable, like we're
sitting at dinner and like we'rejust eating.
Speaker 4 (33:46):
Yeah, everybody's so boring.
Nobody's throwing anything.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Nobody's cursing anybody out.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Yeah, nobody's talking junk to each other.
That's funny.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
This family's boring and I have to say for me, like I
said, I didn't know about ituntil I got to a certain age and
the toxicity is between myparents and I didn't happen
until I started getting older.
It wasn't so much when I wasyounger like my teens and up,
right, right, and then it got,then that whole thing, and then
when I found out what thesituation was about, then that
of course wham was like you know, on top of everything, you know
(34:16):
so, and then you're again,you're only a young person,
right, you have no life.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
How do I deal with?
this and you don't have nobodytelling you right, and I didn't,
definitely didn't think abouttherapy at that time yeah, I'm
sure I was not thinking about ityeah, because definitely, I
mean, I didn't realize even now,like I said, us talking about
it, me thinking as we'reconversing, I, I, to me, was
just a real part of life.
The only thing I do differentlynow, I think, is I don't argue,
(34:43):
I hate to argue, I don't likeall the yelling and whatnot.
And there was only like my momdid you know?
She did like to yell, she waslike five foot, nothing and dude
bro, I'm surprised.
She should have been like anopera singer Shut up.
You know what I mean.
Like it was that shit justcarried and you know.
But even still, I just I thinkthat right now that's the only
(35:03):
thing I can really think of,that I try to do different is
just not to argue.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
And just remember people like don't go look at
your families and say they'retoxic.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
They yelled at me no, no, no, definitely not.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Like that's not, I'm not sitting here and we're not
sitting here saying like look atyour families and make them
toxic.
No, no, no and examine at yourfamilies and make them toxic and
examine every behavior.
That's not what it's just.
I mean, we're having a goodconversation, but we all have
you know, you know, you know,you know, you know, you know if
you cringe if you, if youcrevice family events right If
you avoid family events or youhate going to family events.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
If you, if, if you a teenager and you hear your
parents' car door close becausethey're coming home and you're
saying oh shit, they're home nowand you're not doing anything
wrong, right.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
You know stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
If it's an occurrence , Right If you hear them walking
right If every time yourdoorknob turns you're worried
about something happening Right.
Who's?
Speaker 4 (35:56):
going to yell at me.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
That's something to look at Then.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
But it's.
Or if you're just like, is myfamily?
Yeah, If you have to askthey're not.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, if you're sitting in the car or
something or listening to thisand you're going, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
Oh yeah, the Hammonds are for you, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, that's different, butdon't make it to somebody.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
If you identify, then we're glad, because we're not
alone.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
It's like if you have to ask how much something is,
you can't afford it right if youhave to ask is my top is my
family, it's probably not, it'sprobably just yeah, you probably
.
Just.
Speaker 4 (36:27):
Everyone's struggling and everyone has bad days and
then you know people bicker, youknow it's, it's normal when
you're living under one room andbe like, oh, you can't put that
toilet seat on right stuff likethat.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
I think that's pretty lost his front teeth.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
My mother on a coffee cup holy jeez, I mean you can't
, and especially when especiallywhen one of your kids if your
kids are like you like, if youhave more like yeah, if, like, I
have two girls, my youngerdaughter is me right so we
battle all the time, yeah mywife, my wife just looks at hers
.
She's you.
What do you expect?
So I mean like yeah, so it's,it's crazy it is.
Speaker 4 (37:04):
It's just insane.
Yeah, it is, it's nuts, thoughLike there's a difference
between like arguing and likebickering.
It's like ah, you know, nexttime you're upstairs can you
shut the light off.
You know, like I think that'spretty normal stuff.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
But next time, if you don't shut the fucking light
off, I'm coming up there.
Or you come up, I come up therewith a bat and say you don't
want to shut the light off.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
Boom and I knock out all the lights and I break the
light switch.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Now the fucking lights are off.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
That's probably toxic .
Okay, so when you say that, Iwould think that's a problem,
that's kind of what with Right,yeah, yeah, cause.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
Then it's like you know that, yeah, well, it's a
behavior.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
Yeah, I would only say this far, I would have to
agree to it I've never done it,but if if my son or my daughter
was doing something and and Iasked him not to do that one
thing, and they continue to doit and defy me right, then I
would definitely say, okay, thenyou don't deserve to have a
door, and then I would take itaway.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
And then, when you get, you ready to have it right
put it back on.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
I'm not gonna break the door.
I'm not gonna do.
No, no, no I'm gonna take thehinge pins out, yeah, and I'm
gonna put the door away and Iknow you won't be able to get it
back in, even if I leave themout you you're never going to
figure it out.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
Yeah, by the time you figure it out, I bet you know,
maybe I'll think about youdeserving the door back.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
I may?
Speaker 3 (38:25):
have to get a new door.
Hell, yeah, yeah, exactly yeah,because it's outdated.
Yeah, no, listen, that may beit's wrong, but no, no, no.
But that's the thing I don'tknow.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Is it wrong?
That wouldn't be toxic.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
That's.
I'm not a big fan of takingdoors off.
Take the computer away, shutoff the Wi-Fi, take the phone,
stuff like that, that stuff, Idon't know.
I think people have a right toprivacy.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
Well, yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
Unless their behavior is self-destructive and you
have to be able to watch themand lock them in.
But again, if I tell you-, butthen they probably should be in
a hospital.
If you have to take the dooroff because you're afraid your
kid's going to hurt themselves,then they probably need to be
hospitalized.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
Right, no, definitely , other than that, that's just
me.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
I'm not a big but my thing is it's like saying your
daughter.
She's cursing at you, right?
She's like this is my fuckingroom.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
I'm try to do all the steps that we're saying, and
then you get to that point, yougo okay, I'll be right back?
Speaker 1 (39:27):
yeah, yeah, yeah, no.
What are you doing with ahammer and a screwdriver?
Speaker 3 (39:29):
let me show you yeah, yeah, yeah, and then you take
the pins out, and then you takethe door off and you go when you
learn don't know how with hisdaughter goes.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
She asked him to do something.
She goes.
Well, where's your checklist?
He goes well the last time Iremember was you were in a warm
house, in a warm bed with coversCheck, check, check.
Speaker 3 (39:51):
Yeah, I can't remember who the standup
comedian was.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
It was hysterical man .
I was like exactly yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
But I mean I again.
That's where I would questionyou know what then my kids would
consider toxic.
Right?
You feel me?
Right?
Because for me, discipliningand I'm only we only use the
door as an example.
You know what I mean?
Because, like I said, if we're,if you're you're in a funky
mood, I get it.
Or if I tell you to dosomething and you're going to be
defiant, go up the stairs andslam the door.
(40:20):
I let it slide the first time,like yo, don't slam the door
anymore, you do it again becauseyou think you're king shit.
Okay, now we're having aproblem.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Now the door stays open.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
Now you do it a third time and you know what you can
just stay without a door becauseyou're slamming the door.
You know it's that punishment.
They're going to kick you offwhen they're not home, and then
when they get home and they seeit, see, no, I'm more, I guess,
the fucking door.
But right, I'm sadistic.
I think that's why I come inlike I'm a little bit yeah, I'm
just, I'm still, I'm, just, I'mnot about, yeah, I just think.
(40:49):
I understand.
You know what I think it kindof.
That's how we were brought up.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because that's the kind of shit
my parents would I think there'smore to it.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
When you do stuff like that, especially teenagers,
you kind of just take awaytheir privacy, and I think
they're entitled to that.
Yeah, no, you're entitled tothe privacy when you go take a
shower and listen.
The bottom line is at somepoint our kids may not listen to
us, no matter what you do.
And then what do you do?
(41:25):
Right, Like if you tell them ifyou tell them you can't do this
and they do, and you tell themand you're like do you throw
them out?
Do you do you?
You know?
Sometimes you can't like.
Speaker 3 (41:33):
But you're still not going to slam the door in my
house.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
That's where I'm at.
But would that example be thesame used in this example,
example where, let's say, youborrow the car and you're not
supposed to have it, but you getit because of a certain
situation and then you drive andyou drive recklessly and you
hit mailboxes and you put damageon the car and now I'm gonna
take away their door.
No, no no no, I'm gonna takeaway the car.
(41:58):
You're not gonna drive anymore,but that's different, though,
because because you can't beagain.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
This is this is me.
This is me, this is my opinion.
Right Is taking away their car,taking away their phone,
shutting off the Internet, stufflike that.
That's different.
You're taking away an object,you're taking away a privilege.
I just don't see a bedroom dooras a privilege.
I just see a bedroom door as—.
Speaker 3 (42:20):
A basic need.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
Yeah, it's part of the basic need.
It's like it allows me to gointo my space and allows me to
close off.
I just like would you take a?
Would you take the door off thebathroom?
No, I wouldn't do that yeah.
But it's there's just, there'sjust privacy Right.
Then you have to put the sheetup yeah, taking away their car,
or taking away their credit card, or taking away you know that's
(42:43):
, and that's just it's different, that I think, just like the
door, just kind of representsadifferent aspect of their life
and and it's and I know parentsthat do that I know, people have
done that.
I just it's not something thatokay, that's not something that
I I don't know if it's a greatidea, cause Then they always
know you can just take awaytheir dignity.
Speaker 3 (43:04):
No, I will say, though I think there's an age
limit to that.
You know what I'm saying.
Like, yeah, I'm not going to doit if my daughter is 17 years
old.
You know what I'm saying?
Right, if they were, like, 10years old, you know what You're
staying.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
Sit over there.
I'm staying in here, you sitover there.
Right, but here you sit overthere.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
Right, but if they're going to their room to slam the
door, I said that's what my getup is Come out.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
You don't deserve to be in this room right now.
You need to come and sit outover here with me.
Speaker 3 (43:30):
Put them in the hallway on the floor.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
Because the room itself is a privilege, not the
door.
Speaker 3 (43:34):
The room is their room, it's their space.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Listen, we always say it's my house, my house, but
but we give our kids their room.
Speaker 3 (43:40):
Right, it's their space.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
I can remove them from that space for a little bit
, right, right, but eventually,when they go to sleep, when I
feel that they're safe, now goup to your room.
Go up to your room, becausewhat are you really doing?
It really is.
It's like a power move, like Ican do this.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
Right, well, it's better than me choking the shit
out of you.
That's kind of how I was goingto do it Right again.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
so it's like it's out of your frustration.
But you know what?
There's really not a purpose toit, except that you're
frustrated because you couldn'tget your kid to do what you want
them to do.
That's why parents hit theirkids Aside from an instant
reaction like get away from thestove or something like that or
pulling them by the hair.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
If they're walking down the middle of the street in
a car, stop Right but, that'sdifferent, because that's the
only thing you can grab.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
But when you go and you hit your kid as punishment,
it's because you're frustratedthat they didn't do what you
want them to do and you have noother option, because hitting
them really doesn't change thecircumstances and you can say
well, they won't do it again.
But we don't know that.
We don't know that becauseyou've, if you've, ever been
spanked more than once, right,you've done it again.
(44:56):
You've done something again.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
So it doesn't really work.
But it also goes to like allright.
So kenny and I agree on that,or we we have that in common, I
should say, because that'ssomething we'll be like.
All right, that's what you know.
But that came because ourparents kind of did that in a
sense.
So we're getting that from likefrom this learned behavior so
what I want to say also to learnbehavior can also be broken
right.
My dad would get beat for hismoney, his bike money, or his
(45:21):
mother was an alcoholic.
She treated him like shit.
She beat him all the time.
Yeah, he wound up going in thenavy, got away from her and then
when I was a kid he couldn'thit me and my brother and if he
did out of the times, like yousaid, I could count on my hand.
If that many he got sick, he'dhave to go run to the bathroom
right and throw up because hecouldn't like.
(45:42):
He didn't like the fact that hewas sitting.
Speaker 4 (45:43):
I completely get that .
In fact I'm.
I'm gonna say, you know,without getting into too much
detail, is I use the way I wasraised as a blueprint.
Speaker 3 (45:52):
I want not to raise your kids, as you know what I
mean.
Speaker 4 (45:55):
You know right, yeah, yeah, and you do eventually I
mean, you do figure it out, youknow, some people, some people
don't, some people just go thisway raised, I'm going to raise
my parents this way I'm going tobeat the shit out of them or
I'm going to you know tell them.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
They're an asshole you know or?
Speaker 4 (46:09):
tell them they're worthless because that worked
for me.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
I don't know, not if you're telling your kid that
you're worthless, because thenit didn't really work for you
casting right right right, youknow when I say that worked for
me, you know.
But yeah, so we say you know,if you grew up in a, if you grew
up in an abusive household, youwould more likely be an abusive
parent yourself, likely or not?
No, because there's there's oneof two things yeah, you're
(46:34):
going to be, or you're not goingto be, shitty I'm not doing
that or whatever.
Speaker 4 (46:38):
That's the way it is, yeah again, some people don't
wake up when, like I said, theperspective, we were perspective
we were talking about you wake,you know you you're raised with
and you don't have thatperspective.
But some people never get thatperspective.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
And they wind up turning into the people that did
it to them and they wind updoing the same thing to whoever
they have, you know, theirchildren, and so on.
It's like a domino effect, likeI was punished, I'm going to
punish you.
It's like a domino effect LikeI was punished.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
I'm going to punish you.
It's like I said before, likethat meme or that thing I was
saying to my daughter was likethey're going to have the
opposite of daddy issues.
Speaker 3 (47:09):
Right right right.
Speaker 4 (47:10):
It's not going to happen.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
My dad's father ran off when my dad was 13, stole
his bar mitzvah money and leftand that was it.
And and my father was a fuckingamazing father.
He was there for us, he, he wasloving and caring and
affectionate.
Speaker 4 (47:31):
He wasn't his dad, he wasn't grandpa leo, I think
that's.
I think that's what how peopleturn lemonade out of lemons.
Speaker 1 (47:36):
Yeah, my dad wasn't like his dad and he wasn't like
his mother, but there were somethings, of course, that they
still wind up having, but thattakes time right.
So, like for all of us, you getto a point and hopefully you
learn and you get into adifferent space and you're
comfortable with yourself andyou're not allowing people to do
that shit to you anymore.
You're like, oh okay yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
I'm done with that and fortunately I am every bit
my dad and I'm proud of that.
So that's, that's why you won'ttake the door off the hangers
right there you go this was agood conversation, yeah but with
that, that's our time for today.
Speaker 3 (48:09):
Alright, that was awesome, so that was cool, ended
up on a good note.
Thank you, sir.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (48:13):
I appreciate you being here, like always.
Can't wait for the sports onewith Pink Tom that was a good
one yeah, yeah, yeah it.
Speaker 4 (48:23):
I don't come up with ideas for topics often, but when
I do, you know, I try to comeup with a good one the most
emerging man in the world.
Speaker 3 (48:29):
Yeah, that's you.
I don't always drink beers, butwhen I do, when I do.
Speaker 4 (48:34):
I prefer Dos Equis.
Oh look, they got a freeadvertisement.
There you go.
Speaker 3 (48:39):
So with that, thank everybody for listening.
Hope you enjoyed this episode.
So love peace and hair grease,live long and prosper and go
vegan.
Speaker 1 (48:46):
Let's go Mets yeah.
Welcome to Cotton and Crumple and the Jersey Guy
Podcast.
How's everybody doing tonight?
Speaker 3 (00:10):
All right, all right all right.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Doing good, doing good.
Speaker 4 (00:13):
We got our friend Steve back on.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Is it number four or number?
Speaker 4 (00:17):
five.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Yeah four.
I'm still waiting for my jacket.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Yeah, we got to make it Like on SNL we're still
working on it.
Speaker 4 (00:24):
We'll be the Alec Baldwin, like on SNL.
No, we're still working on it.
Yeah, it'd be the Alec.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Baldwin on this one.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
yeah, it was still working, at least like a cameo
in the picture or something likethat.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
I just don't draw too good, so I can't make a jacket
with the markers Next time.
Yeah, funny.
So what's going on?
Fellas, everybody's good.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Yeah, we're good.
What's today's topic?
Who?
This is really Tom's topic.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
Tom's topic.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
He's the one who brought it up.
He was the one who said weshould do a topic on toxic
family members.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
Yeah, I think it's an important topic.
I think we kind of he's parents, that kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
So yeah, that's a good one for me to come back to,
bro.
That's why we have our guestswith us.
Yes, very helpful with thatstuff.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
All right.
So, for those who don't know,stephen is a therapist, so he
always gives good insight oncertain topics like this, so
it's great to have him on forthis part.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
So you see the sports of therapy.
Yeah, tonight, tonight.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
We are going to have him back on, we're going to be
talking about sports again.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Uh, we, you know it's a fun topic for us to talk, for
sure.
So this will be, then that'llbe sports therapy sports therapy
.
Right, there we go.
Yeah, yeah, I think.
I, I think, if you have, if,you have rooting for two
different teams.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
You have a toxic.
There's the.
My wife was a Yankee fan.
We'd have a toxic family.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
But when you say sports therapy, I think of like
physical therapy.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Well, it'll be mental therapy yeah yeah, yeah.
Sports mental therapy, by theway, this is Mental Health
Awareness Month.
Oh, is it?
Okay it is, so let's make surewe remain.
I thought that was in June, sothat's very important especially
with this episode.
But toxic family members we allhave one I have probably
(02:10):
several, me too, me three, yeah,we all do, we all do, but then
okay, so what are we going tosay is toxic?
Well, yes, like, what would be?
What would be the definition ofa toxic?
I would say benevolence.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
You know what I mean.
Okay, you know what.
I mean Okay, you know what Imean you know just not being you
know kind Okay, it's more thanjust not getting along.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
It's more than just being, you know, like having
siblings that have, you know,different views on life.
I mean, a toxic family would besomething that was really very
destructive to the foundation ofa family.
Okay, you know whether it's aresult of, you know, somebody's
mental illness or substanceabuse or abusive behavior.
(02:54):
I mean, those are the bigfactors.
Or all of the above or all ofthe above right I mean yeah, I
mean, addiction is a diagnosablemental illness.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
Right.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
You know, like having those things in the roots of
the family really is where thattoxicity would typically come
from.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Or even your new family, if you have an in-laws.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah, yeah, and you marry into a family where one of
the parents is, you know, analcoholic or a drug addict, or
has a serious mental illness andit disrupts the ability to
function in a productive manneryour family.
It bleeds in If you you knowyou marry into somebody and
they're.
(03:39):
You know your spouse's.
You know your spouse's mom hasalways been abusive.
You know that comes into yourhouse.
You know you deal with it.
Now you deal with therelationship that your spouse
has with her family.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Something new to juggle in your life.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
You know going to dinner, you know going to
holiday dinners they're notpeaceful and quiet, absolutely
you know, I always, you know,when, years ago, you know, I
worked in in the recovery shieldand worked in rehabs and we did
a lot of stuff, you know,especially like around the
holiday times there was likeChristmas, thanksgiving,
christmas and New Year's, likethe Bermuda triangle of of
(04:15):
dysfunctional families and andyou had you know it's, it didn't
age well, but we used to alwaystalk about like everyone,
everyone thought their familywas going to be the Cosby's
right, right, you know pre billdrugging and dating and raping
people, but you know how thatfamily was always presented, and
the reality is is most familieswere like the Bundy's you know,
(04:35):
or the, you know the, the, thedrunk uncle who was, you know,
fighting with you or somethinglike that, or somebody stealing
from everyone's pocketbooks.
There was, you know, that wasmore.
That was more what wasrealistic than that wholesome
family, the Waltons.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
I guess that's better than I guess that's better than
the Waltons, which is not youknow, that's of course you know
it's never going to be like that, you know.
So I guess there are familieswho don't have as much, but they
have something right we all do.
I mean.
I mean I, you know I could, aswe're sitting here talking, I'm
going through shit in my head.
Oh yeah, of course, of course,just you know.
(05:13):
Yeah, I mean rewind the tapes.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
Yeah, I feel like I, I would find it hard to believe
that there would be like afamily that exists, that is like
, just like, like we said, thewaltons are like you know, like
everybody has their shit man,you know what I mean?
Like there's always gonna, evenif it's not the intermediate
family.
There's gonna be that likeweird uncle, you know
everybody's got the.
I mean that's like the on, likethat's like a, like an internet
term now, like having like theuncle, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Like that you know if we're talking like toxic
families a toxic family, itreally it invades you know I
keep using the word functioningright, it invades the
functioning of the family.
We're not.
Yeah, I think every family hastheir issues at times.
I think I have a great familywith my wife and kids but, you
(06:01):
know, prior to them getting alittle bit older, I don't think
there's a vacation that I didn'tsay.
I'm never going on vacationwith you guys again.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
That became like the running joke, because they would
do something.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
You know they would do something to piss me off.
So, like you know, I wouldn't,I wouldn't say that my family,
you know when my wife and kidswas toxic.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
We just we had her, we had our issues sometimes,
yeah, right, right, but yeah,that's true, that's true, that's
true.
That is a big difference.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Yeah, yeah, of course , because I mean, like, for me,
I've always thought of it asjust this is how we grew up,
this is just what it was.
You know what I mean.
This is what it was growing upin the neighborhood and you see
the other families and you knowthe kids are, you know it,
things that we said, the thingsthat we did, you know the ass
whoopings that were handed out.
We never thought of it, as youknow, being toxic with that
(06:49):
uncle, like, ah, that's just howhe is.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
And I'm supposed to be touched like that.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
Yeah, right, yeah, the thing is too is like when
you're a kid, you don't haveperspective.
Right you don't say like well,this is how a family should grow
well, this is how a familyshould grow.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
You just like oh this is doesn't everybody kind of
yeah, exactly yeah, and I didn'tfind out that someone else
later in life.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
And there you go right, or or when you're raising
your own kid and you know, ohshit, wait, wait, something was
not right about my childhood.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
How come you know trying to do my best to raise a
child, yeah well, the worstthing is like you come from a
dysfunctional family and youstart dating somebody from a
normal family and you're like,but like nobody gets smacked at
dinner yeah, yeah, right,exactly, yeah like how come
nobody's through anything?
Speaker 3 (07:36):
we threw anything, I mean what the hell's going?
Speaker 1 (07:38):
on here nice conversation, yeah right or even
worse having a toxic you knowdysfunction in your family and
then marrying somebody or beingwith somebody who has a
dysfunction in their family.
So now and when you see theirfamily, you're like holy shit,
my family is good compared tothat.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're like all of a sudden, my
family's not the crazy, myfamily's not the crazy family
anymore, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Yeah, that's funny, bro, I didn't.
I didn't even think about thatpart word again.
So now, when do you I guesswe'll say, when you realize or
think about your family and howtoxic they may be, or just one
or two of those people, do youend up cutting them off?
(08:20):
Do you try to work with them?
To you know, say this they cansee the error of their ways, I
guess.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
You know, I guess it depends on on what you want to
do as the, as the person I mean.
Like you know, I you know I hadissues with my brother who
recently passed away andfortunately we we were able to
repair things and when before hepassed away, and but I always
wanted to keep him in my lifeand I always wanted to keep my
(08:46):
niece and my nephew and mysister-in-law in my life and
with my kids and you know.
So you just kind of you makechoices as to when you're going
to see them and stuff like that.
I mean, like there were times Iavoided going to them because I
knew if I went we would getinto an argument.
And I didn't want to get intoan argument because we did
better when we didn't see we didbetter when we didn't see each
(09:09):
other sometimes you know, but Iguess there's gotta be you know,
I know when I work with withpeople was that was that me.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
No, it was Amazon.
Oh, it was Amazon.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
So people from dysfunctional.
I always say like you have tolike, if you want to have, if
you make a choice that you wantthis person in your life, then
you have to accept their illnessor whatever, whatever their
issues are.
You have to know what you'redealing with, right If you're,
if you're, if you will.
Just you know if, if your momdoesn't know how to show
(09:41):
affection or praise to you,right, but you love her because
she's your mom and you want tohave a relationship, you have to
know, going in, that whenyou're going to see her, you
can't look for that stuff, right, cause you're not going to get
that Right.
You're going to tell her aboutyour new job and your promotion
and she'll be like oh, oh, okay.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
You can't do better than that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, that wasall you got.
So you have to know who you'redealing with and what their
limitations are.
The same way, if you're dealingwith somebody with addiction or
somebody who steals from you,don't set yourself up, don't
walk out of the room with yourwallet on the table, because
when you come back it'll be gone.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Right, yeah, and stuff like that, or empty, yeah,
right.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
So just make sure you know what you're getting into,
because it's important to have arelationship with our parents
or our siblings, or you know ourfamily, that we, you know that
you want to love them.
You want to have thatrelationship.
You just you have to if you'rethe healthy one.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
You have to know what you're getting into, and you do
that.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
You can't right once you do that like if you make a
decision like I'm going to keepthis person in my life and right
and now I sorry, so I'm goingto keep this person in my life.
I know who they are, I knowwhat they're about and I know
all this stuff.
It's like I kind of can't getmad when they do it, because I
know they enjoy.
You don't get mad, but youdon't get mad at a baby for
shitting in a diaper.
It's what they do If they're 17and they're shitting in their
(11:07):
diaper that's a problem unlessthere's other issues there.
So just make sure you know whatyour expectations are.
That can make things a loteasier and limit your time.
Limit your time You're notgoing to spend eight hours with
somebody on a holiday.
That kind of sets you off.
But you can go for coffeeafterwards you know, or
(11:30):
something like that, and justkind of keep them involved and
whatever way you're okay with.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Right, right, I mean it.
It also depends on how longit's been going on for too right
, and how long have you beenputting up for, and how long
have you been doing that already?
Because that happens too right,you're like okay, I'm done, now
I'm going to set the rules andthis is how it's going to be.
Oh, you want to see the baby?
Well, no, I'm not coming to you, you're going to have to come
to me, you know, like then youget to the point where you
(12:05):
smarten up and you're like allright, I'm not doing that
anymore.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
You want to see him, you're going to come.
If you don't, then you're out.
Yeah, you're stuck, and I guessit also depends on you know
what the issue is.
Again, if you're dealing with,what are you going to do?
You're going to keep themaround, the same way, as you
know, as they get older and theystart.
(12:29):
You know parents, you know ifthey have to go into nursing
homes, they start battlingdementia.
Are you going to cut them offbecause they don't remember you
anymore?
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Yeah, Well, I don't know, but then that would be
different.
That wouldn't be so much thatthey're toxic, it's a mental
illness, like you said.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
It's just something that they can't even help, but
still, mental illness can makethe relationship toxic yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
So because of the behavior, I never thought that
Alzheimer's or something likethat would be Well, only because
it's.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
I just use that as an example.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
As far as like the behavior.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Okay, certainly the reason is just the behavior.
I would think it would only beworse or harder on you if you
didn't have a good relationshipwith that parent in the first
place.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Right and then they got Alzheimer's.
And now that makes it harder,because you already have
animosity against them orwhatever's going on.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Or it could be the opposite way, and then you might
be more tolerant of it.
You know what I mean.
You're like.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
I know that's not my dad, and there are times
sometimes you just have to cutpeople out of your life because
they're not they're just nothealthy for you and and and
you're not willing or able toaccept what's going on.
You're not willing or able totolerate the behavior that they
give back at you, and you'rebetter off not having them in
your life.
I mean it's sad, but you dealwith it and you move on and you
(13:43):
live your life and you fill yourlife with people that needs,
your needs, right, right, youknow and you let the good
relationships and the positiverelationships and your life
flourish.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Yeah, and you don't want to keep doing that, because
then you're going to have tohold yourself responsible at
some point.
Well, I think know it's.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
It's a act of self-preservation.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
You know what I mean is you know, you hear a lot of
people, especially when you knowpeople will go in no contact
with, like maybe a parent orsomething like that.
You'll hear people say well,you know, you only get one
moment right, yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah whatever if they're gonna
be toxic they're gonna beproblematic, then, what are you
gonna do know, and there's noway to fix it.
Then what are you going?
Speaker 2 (14:27):
to do Right and listen.
You know relationships with.
You know the relationships thatparents have with their kids
has changed over the generations.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
You know, I think, fortunately I mean we all have
kids right, yes, right I meanlike we're in the generation now
where we're very open andaffectionate to our children.
And we tell them that we lovethem all the time, we do stuff
with them.
You know they're still our kids, but we're friendly with them
and stuff like that Whereas youknow like maybe our parents'
parents or our grandparents,like it was, there wasn't that
(14:58):
kind of relationship.
Right, you know it was.
You know I'm your father, Igive you food.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Yeah, yeah, relationship, right, you know it
was, you know your father, Igive you food.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, there wasn't there wasn't
.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
What do you mean?
You want me to cuddle?
You know what I love you.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
You know like I think that's, we evolved into that
and I think that's great, youknow I right, yeah, so we still
have room for improvement andculture, cultures too like some
cultures right now it's, it'sthe families, or just it's.
It's very's colder, it's not asaffectionate, and but they sort
of you know that's just howthey are, that's what they know,
so it doesn't mean Easterncultures or maybe you know
(15:33):
Eastern European cultures, maybe.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
I don't know I'm trying to think of stereo.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
I'm a stereotype.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
But, you know, I don't know.
I'm sure every place you go I'mstereotypical, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it's way different thanwe do.
Yeah, right, as far as how wedeal with things.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Because I mean for deal with things, because I mean
for me half black and halfrican, and on both sides there's
.
You know, we've always givenlove.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
You know what I mean it's always the hug and a kiss
and the reviews and yeah I hadall that stuff so more.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
There's probably more cultures that are like that
than there are we.
Just, I think the united statesis kind of like in between,
because we're we're like amelting pot of cultures, right,
but like, right, but like.
European cultures are like that, like you said, like, probably
like, like latino cultures arelike that, where like, but like
I don't know.
It's weird like some culturesare just like.
They're like not warm it's yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Well, it doesn't mean .
Speaker 1 (16:33):
It doesn't mean that they don't love each other
that's just how they operate,yeah, yeah, yeah, that's just
the way you know, like they'remore.
You know, just being present isis considered, you know, yeah,
like they're more.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
You know, just being present is is considered, you
know, yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Cause I mean and now you're saying that, though, too
because when my kids were inschool and you know you had to
go and give them lunch moneyCause we forgot to give it to
him in the morning, whatever Ishould over there and give him
my you know, have my son comedown to the office and he'd give
me a hug and a kiss and I said,all right, boy, I love you, kid
and whatever.
And the ladies in the officestopped and I'm like is
(17:07):
everything okay?
They're like that is beautifulthat the son tells you.
I'm like because he's got nochoice, because that's how I
raised him.
I'm his father, that's how Iwas raised, yeah.
You give me love every time Isee you and vice versa.
Give me a hug and a kiss, youknow what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
You grew up in a Jewish household.
Listen up until my parents.
Besides my brother passing awayin January, my mother passed
away in March and my dad lastMay.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Sorry bro.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
But prior to them, I mean, there wasn't a phone call
that didn't end with I love you,right.
So on both, on both parts, mydad was.
I love you, boy, and you knowand I do that with my, with my
daughters and and you know Idon't leave the house.
You know, when they're both home, I don't leave the house
without knocking on the door andtelling them you know, I'm just
running out, I love you, I'mgoing to work, I love you, it's
(17:59):
oh, it's always, yeah, it'salways there.
I don't, I don't go to sleepwithout giving them you know,
saying good night and tellingthem I love them.
Yeah, so, and that's not every.
I think I'd mention this.
Maybe one of the other episodesI was on is there was one time
my daughter was about like myyounger daughter's, like around
10 or 11, and she and her friendwere just like gonna go out to
the park to play and and I said,okay, be careful, I love you.
(18:21):
And then my daughter came backlater and said, said her friend
asked her is your dad tells youhe loves you?
And she was like yeah, all thetime.
So I never hear that yeah, soit doesn't mean, her parents
didn't love her.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
No, no, no, they just don't, they don't say it yeah,
right, and then it's like it's,it's like culture, like showing
you know, you know, displayingaffection, might be considered
you know who knows the culturethey come from.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
Weak or like just not like a thing, right yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
You don't do that to the boys.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
I mean even at 60,.
You know, if I was downvisiting, I'd give my parents a
kiss goodnight, I mean it wasjust what.
It wasn't even just what youdid.
It's what, like, you wanted todo.
Right, it was like it was youloved, I was affectionate to
them Anytime.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
I saw my aunts or my cousins when they came in from
someplace, you know, usually itwas from California or then, or
we went to Maryland and everytime you see someone you know,
you always say hello.
You have kids, you know, evenyour cousins.
Whatever you know, it's just.
It was just the way you werebrought up, you know.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Yeah, like, even for us in Spanish culture, you ask
I'm trying to say how to say itte pide bendición, you're asking
for the blessing, the love.
So you know, when you go andyou see like grandma or whatever
, say oh bendición, or grandpa,or whatever Right, or your
parents like oh bendición.
Now my kids, it didn't takewith them, no matter how much I,
you know, like yo, just whatyou have to say to grandma, just
(19:42):
what you have to say to grandmaor grandpa, they just it just
never took, you know, and theywould say it like in English,
but they wouldn't say it inSpanish, that it was I'm like
man.
So of course, you know theparents are like you.
Don't teach your kids that I'mlike I try to teach them that.
Only I can't beat it to them,you know.
But yeah, even like, even still.
I said I talked to my parentsand it's that you know, asking
(20:03):
for, like I said, just askingfor, it's like asking for a
blessing, you know Right, andyeah, I think that for me, I
still hug my son and give him akiss.
(20:25):
Right, right, right.
The like we said, you knowbeing talking about toxic
relationships.
It's like, even with all that,when you had that, the negative,
you still I can't stand you,but I love you, bendy.
You know I'm saying it was likealways that because I never
thought of it as being toxicwith certain behaviors okay, we
want to love our parents, wewant to love our children, right
?
Speaker 2 (20:44):
we want to love our siblings, right?
I mean, that's what we're,that's what we're taught, we're
brought up to that and just it,just situate it's like
repetitive situations thathappen.
That makes the relationshiptoxic.
Okay, because it's.
It's not somebody doingsomething one time right unless
it's, you know, unless like yourbrother's, like banging your
wife.
Right, right, right, the firsttime you catch him like that can
(21:05):
kind of do it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but like likejust the behaviors, it's just,
it's repetitive, and then wejust kind of get tired of it.
But you know, but you don'twant that Like you don and I
want to hate my parents Right.
You know, like it's just aseries of events that occur that
you just kind of say, like thisisn't right, I don't know why
(21:26):
is this happening.
And I bring it to you and Itell you like, hey, when you do
this, I feel like this.
And then they're like, well,screw you, I'm going to keep
doing it anyway.
That's when it becomes toxic,right, it's, you know.
They keep, you know, sayinghurtful things.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Or they'll, and then if they drink or drug, then it's
worse, right, because they canbecome more abusive.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
Right, because they're meaner, like that Right
yeah, you know that old saying.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
I always believe that when someone says something
when they're drunk 90% of thetime.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
That's a Chinese proverb, like a drunk man's
thoughts or a sober man's words.
Right or a drunk man's words ora sober man's thoughts.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Yeah, okay, write it backwards, exactly.
So now, when you go with thosetoxic people in the family, do
you tell them as you're cuttingthem off.
You know what I mean.
Like you know what.
I don't want to talk to youanymore because you've done this
, this and the third.
I've had it up to here withthat.
You know what?
Bye-bye.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
I just shut it down.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Yeah, I mean, if you're making an effort I didn't
have to say anything.
If you're making an effort totry and repair the relationship
or have open, honest dialoguewith somebody and they're not
responding to it, I think justat some point you just walk away
.
And what's the purpose oftelling them?
Well, like, sometimes, like wealways like say, like I know
(22:46):
what you're going to say, I'mgoing to read your mind.
You say, well, I want to atleast tell them what I think I
want to get how.
I feel, and you know at somepoint you're just you're not
going to get the response thatyou want and it just makes
things worse.
So just walk away on your termsand if they can't figure it out
(23:08):
, that's part of the problem tooisn't it Right, like if I
stopped talking to somebodywho's toxic to me and they can't
figure it out.
One is they probably won'tnotice for a long time.
Yeah, they probably won'tnotice that, like well, I
haven't spoken to Steve in awhile.
Right, you know because becauseit'll a while and then they'll
probably call you up or text youlike hey, would you lose my
phone number, or something likethat, or is your phone broken,
(23:31):
Like they won't sit back and saylike, hey, you know what?
I haven't spoken to Steve in awhile?
That's probably because I'm ashit to him.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
You know like they're not going to say that, but see,
we also grow up in a time ofwhere shooting the dozens was
the funnies.
You know I'm saying like wewill sit there and we laugh and,
just you know, get on eachother and tell jokes.
So then is your one friendwho's quote-unquote better at it
than you are?
Would that be then consideredthe toxic?
Because?
Speaker 2 (23:55):
but usually you're- telling somebody at some point,
like, like you know, you're notjust cutting them off, like you
know, I, I think you should tell, should tell like, if it's you
and I right, and like I'm thetoxic person to you, at some
point you should say to me hey,like you know, steve, like I
don't, like when you do this, Idon't like when you talk like
this to me, I know you thinkyou're joking and it's funny,
(24:16):
but it's really hurtful to me,right?
You tell me that once or twice.
If I keep doing it, obviously Idon't respect what you're
saying, right?
So then you make a decision orI realize oh wow, like I didn't
realize, I didn't realize I wasbeing that offensive, I'm sorry,
and it and doesn't happen again.
Right, but if it keepshappening, then I would just
(24:37):
tell you to, just, you know,walk away and not even tell me,
because I'm not listening to youto begin with right, right,
right, and you know it also too.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
It's not only toxic with people that you had a
relationship, but it's alsopeople that you used to have
ties to say like it's an ex orsomething like that, but you,
it's something when you wereoriginally dealing with them in
the beginning and they would andwhatever they would do, they
would drink and they would geteven more abusive and whatever,
and you would just deal with it.
And then, when you were apart,things got.
(25:07):
You know, you split apart rightNow.
You got to deal with it thatway and then you got the kids
involved, right.
So the one thing I had to learnhow to do and it took me a
while, but I figured it out wasnot to respond to whatever they
say.
The minute you go back and youget into that, they want you to
come back at them so they canengage in that fucking that
(25:29):
toxic thing.
But when you don't give it tothem, you, you, you solve them.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
Right, exactly, right , exactly.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
You really do, and and it feels better to do that
honestly yeah, Than it is, Imean, than it is.
I mean, of course it feels goodto say something to somebody.
Go fuck yourself.
You want to tell them that, butbut it doesn't do anything.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Exactly you tell me to go fuck myself and I just say
something back to you.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
But if I cut you straight off, that's going to do
something.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
That's the other problem, too, is they're going
to turn against you, and now youlook what you do you cut them
off Nothing.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
You don't give them anything, no matter what they
say, what they write, whateverit is, you just do not respond.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
And Tom, you know Tom brought up a good point earlier
was that when we're kids wejust kind of go with the flow.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
Yeah, yeah, we think everything is normal, yeah
that's.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
I never got beat.
I probably count on one handthe times that both my parents
have ever spanked me orsomething like that.
But you know, if you're youknow you're a kid and your
parents are beating you on aconsistent basis, you don't like
.
You figure like well, they'remy parents, they're allowed to
do that, they're supposed to dothat, whatever it's not until,
(26:42):
or they talk, they irrationallypunish me, or something like
that.
It's not until you get a littlebit older and you have a little
bit more experience, like youwere saying, where you start
realizing like that wasn't, likewhat they did wasn't cool.
And you know, sometimes yourealize like, well, maybe they
just didn't know.
Like you know, they did thebest they can, they did all best
(27:03):
they can, they did all thatthey knew, and it's not good
enough for me.
Now, and as an adult, you getto be responsible for your own
life, right?
So it's not about blaming yourparents or your aunts or your
uncles or stuff like that.
It's about realizing okay, Iwas brought up in this
environment.
I was brought up in thisenvironment and it wasn't
healthy.
I didn't like it.
I can do something differentabout it now.
I won't ever raise my kids likethat.
(27:23):
I'll be loving and supporting.
I'm not going to use corporalpunishment on them.
I'm never going to lay a handon them.
I'm going to identify myfeelings.
I'm going to be verbal.
I'm going to do all that stuffand if I can't do it by myself,
I'm going to seek help to dothat, because I don't want to be
that person right.
It's, you know, when you see itjust become like a generational
thing.
(27:43):
It's people just not takingresponsibility for, for what
they can do for themselves today.
Right, that's the big.
It's never.
It's not about blame, as init's.
It's kind of like as an adultwe don't have the right to blame
people.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Oh, right Right.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
We don't have the right because we have the
ability to make changes Right asa, as a child.
We don't Mm-hmm.
We don't, we don't have thatYou're responsible now.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Yeah, no that makes sense.
Yeah, I grew up in an alcoholicfamily.
Okay, but there's treatment now.
Right you can do somethingabout your alcoholism.
You can do something about yourmental health issues.
They have to, you know maystruggle with it, but you can do
something about it.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
Yeah, definitely, definitely can.
Yeah, I get like you said.
I get it now.
I mean, it makes sense.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
You know, I really seriously didn't even, you know,
think about it.
I'm sure you grew up in thenormal as far as, like in my
house it was toxic Because myparents let's just put it this
way the situation altogether wasa fucking mess.
Now when you look at it now,when I was in it and here's a
good guy you were just saying Iwas in the middle of it and you
know I had aunt barbara, mom anddad.
Okay, if everybody can't figurethat out, then yeah, but that
(28:57):
whole time until I finallyfigured it out, I thought that
was normal.
I did right when I went tosomeone else's house.
I'm like you know, I didn'tknow if someone came to my house
.
I didn't think about it asbeing something bad because I or
you know whatever, right, butthat's how it was.
That's where I grew up, right?
You know what I mean.
But so, and that was toxic initself.
(29:18):
You doesn't necessarily have tobe toxic in the sense where
you're being, I mean, if I'm asfar as something actually being
done to you when there's theenvironment around you is toxic
just because of therelationships going on in the
house and things like that.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
And again, we think when we hear, when we use words
like toxic, we think likeexplosive and everything's like
that happens to them all.
Right, yeah, but it doesn'thave to be, it could just be.
It could be real quiet becausepeople don't talk.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
That too Right.
That's a toxic environment.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
You know, it's just not Again.
It's like that repetitivebehavior that interrupts the
functioning of a family.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
Right.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
And you know you can get sucked into it.
When I was with my first wifethe toxic and her family alone,
I mean we were bothdysfunctional, we should have
never been together.
But but that is what it is, weare and we, you know we are, we
are where we are.
But when I look at it, and Ilook at just the fact that there
(30:19):
was two people's worlds, I wassaying earlier and it it
collided.
Now it's even more toxic.
Now, right, so you're gettingit from her family and my family
and you know it's like, andthen you get stuck in it Because
, almost like you feel likeyou're trapped.
There was a point where youwere afraid to walk away or
whatever.
And then finally you know, andthen you have to re-fucking,
find yourself again.
(30:40):
And of course, you're young,because I was super young when
it happened.
So, and again what you weresaying earlier, I said people
have it when they're young.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
They have no life experience.
She didn't have any lifeexperience, right?
You don't?
Speaker 1 (30:52):
fucking know what to do and if your parents aren't
telling you or getting it fromsomewhere else, maybe you did.
Well, I'm sure you had like agood grandma or grandpa or
somebody or somebody you thathad more logic and treated you
differently, like my grandmother.
I loved her.
My mother's mother was awesome.
I had a great relationship withher.
You know so that for her shewas always kind and nice and
loving to me and you know itwasn't like the yelling hey,
fuck you, bob.
(31:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah.
That's what was I'm thinking ofthat toxicity too.
You know what I mean, on top ofthe yelling and the screaming.
But some people you know.
Like he said, obviously you cansit and not talk to.
I've had that too.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
So yeah, and if you don't do something about it, you
know you seek those kind ofpeople in your life too, like if
you find that normal, which iskind of what happened to you
right, right, like you werebrought up in that, in that
environment, and you didn'trealize how, how messed up it
was and and who'd you wind upmarrying right, your relation,
your relationship was you soughtsomebody who just kind of fit
(31:51):
that mold, right?
Speaker 1 (31:53):
you know it's like and that's just for my family
being the way they were fromthat family.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
But it was just the same thing.
But it's like right, you know.
It's like if you, if, if youdon't, if you don't think
anything's wrong and you have anabusive parent, you're going to
try and hook up with somebodywho's kind of abusive, right,
you know.
So I always send my daughtersthe meme like my kids, my girls,
are going to have the reverseof daddy issues.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
You know, like they're going to know how to be,
how they want to be treated andloved and respected and all
that stuff.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
Right exactly.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Yeah, right, expected and all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
But yeah, if you don't think there's anything
wrong, you're never told that'swrong, you'll find the same kind
of people right, and then whenyou're out of it, you can kind
of it takes time.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
You never realize how bad things are until you're out
of it.
And then you're like Like youstart, like you're out of a
toxic or chaotic relationshipand it takes, you know, days and
weeks and months to realizelike, wow, like nobody's yelling
at me, right like you know likeI could put something simple as
like I can leave something inthe fridge and I get to eat it
later right like people likepeople.
Speaker 4 (32:56):
Like people respect my stuff, yeah and you know what
happens too sometimes withpeople is that they're so used
to a toxic like family that theygo to a normal family and they
start creating chaos it's notnormal, it's fucking, you know,
this is the something's wronghere, they start creating chaos.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
I hear, you, hear that right, that's all, and
they're supposed to say thefuck's going on, yeah, yeah,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Did you hear what did ?
Speaker 4 (33:21):
you hear what he said to you.
Because chaos is so normal tosome people, because they live
in a chaotic family, that theywill create chaos, because it
feels weird to have normalcy.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Because normalcy isn't normal.
It's uncomfortable.
What is going on here?
It's uncomfortable, it's superuncomfortable, like we're
sitting at dinner and like we'rejust eating.
Speaker 4 (33:46):
Yeah, everybody's so boring.
Nobody's throwing anything.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Nobody's cursing anybody out.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Yeah, nobody's talking junk to each other.
That's funny.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
This family's boring and I have to say for me, like I
said, I didn't know about ituntil I got to a certain age and
the toxicity is between myparents and I didn't happen
until I started getting older.
It wasn't so much when I wasyounger like my teens and up,
right, right, and then it got,then that whole thing, and then
when I found out what thesituation was about, then that
of course wham was like you know, on top of everything, you know
(34:16):
so, and then you're again,you're only a young person,
right, you have no life.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
How do I deal with?
this and you don't have nobodytelling you right, and I didn't,
definitely didn't think abouttherapy at that time yeah, I'm
sure I was not thinking about ityeah, because definitely, I
mean, I didn't realize even now,like I said, us talking about
it, me thinking as we'reconversing, I, I, to me, was
just a real part of life.
The only thing I do differentlynow, I think, is I don't argue,
(34:43):
I hate to argue, I don't likeall the yelling and whatnot.
And there was only like my momdid you know?
She did like to yell, she waslike five foot, nothing and dude
bro, I'm surprised.
She should have been like anopera singer Shut up.
You know what I mean.
Like it was that shit justcarried and you know.
But even still, I just I thinkthat right now that's the only
(35:03):
thing I can really think of,that I try to do different is
just not to argue.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
And just remember people like don't go look at
your families and say they'retoxic.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
They yelled at me no, no, no, definitely not.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Like that's not, I'm not sitting here and we're not
sitting here saying like look atyour families and make them
toxic.
No, no, no and examine at yourfamilies and make them toxic and
examine every behavior.
That's not what it's just.
I mean, we're having a goodconversation, but we all have
you know, you know, you know,you know, you know, you know if
you cringe if you, if youcrevice family events right If
you avoid family events or youhate going to family events.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
If you, if, if you a teenager and you hear your
parents' car door close becausethey're coming home and you're
saying oh shit, they're home nowand you're not doing anything
wrong, right.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
You know stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
If it's an occurrence , Right If you hear them walking
right If every time yourdoorknob turns you're worried
about something happening Right.
Who's?
Speaker 4 (35:56):
going to yell at me.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
That's something to look at Then.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
But it's.
Or if you're just like, is myfamily?
Yeah, If you have to askthey're not.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, if you're sitting in the car or
something or listening to thisand you're going, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
Oh yeah, the Hammonds are for you, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, that's different, butdon't make it to somebody.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
If you identify, then we're glad, because we're not
alone.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
It's like if you have to ask how much something is,
you can't afford it right if youhave to ask is my top is my
family, it's probably not, it'sprobably just yeah, you probably
.
Just.
Speaker 4 (36:27):
Everyone's struggling and everyone has bad days and
then you know people bicker, youknow it's, it's normal when
you're living under one room andbe like, oh, you can't put that
toilet seat on right stuff likethat.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
I think that's pretty lost his front teeth.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
My mother on a coffee cup holy jeez, I mean you can't
, and especially when especiallywhen one of your kids if your
kids are like you like, if youhave more like yeah, if, like, I
have two girls, my youngerdaughter is me right so we
battle all the time, yeah mywife, my wife just looks at hers
.
She's you.
What do you expect?
So I mean like yeah, so it's,it's crazy it is.
Speaker 4 (37:04):
It's just insane.
Yeah, it is, it's nuts, thoughLike there's a difference
between like arguing and likebickering.
It's like ah, you know, nexttime you're upstairs can you
shut the light off.
You know, like I think that'spretty normal stuff.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
But next time, if you don't shut the fucking light
off, I'm coming up there.
Or you come up, I come up therewith a bat and say you don't
want to shut the light off.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
Boom and I knock out all the lights and I break the
light switch.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Now the fucking lights are off.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
That's probably toxic .
Okay, so when you say that, Iwould think that's a problem,
that's kind of what with Right,yeah, yeah, cause.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
Then it's like you know that, yeah, well, it's a
behavior.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
Yeah, I would only say this far, I would have to
agree to it I've never done it,but if if my son or my daughter
was doing something and and Iasked him not to do that one
thing, and they continue to doit and defy me right, then I
would definitely say, okay, thenyou don't deserve to have a
door, and then I would take itaway.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
And then, when you get, you ready to have it right
put it back on.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
I'm not gonna break the door.
I'm not gonna do.
No, no, no I'm gonna take thehinge pins out, yeah, and I'm
gonna put the door away and Iknow you won't be able to get it
back in, even if I leave themout you you're never going to
figure it out.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
Yeah, by the time you figure it out, I bet you know,
maybe I'll think about youdeserving the door back.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
I may?
Speaker 3 (38:25):
have to get a new door.
Hell, yeah, yeah, exactly yeah,because it's outdated.
Yeah, no, listen, that may beit's wrong, but no, no, no.
But that's the thing I don'tknow.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Is it wrong?
That wouldn't be toxic.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
That's.
I'm not a big fan of takingdoors off.
Take the computer away, shutoff the Wi-Fi, take the phone,
stuff like that, that stuff, Idon't know.
I think people have a right toprivacy.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
Well, yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
Unless their behavior is self-destructive and you
have to be able to watch themand lock them in.
But again, if I tell you-, butthen they probably should be in
a hospital.
If you have to take the dooroff because you're afraid your
kid's going to hurt themselves,then they probably need to be
hospitalized.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
Right, no, definitely , other than that, that's just
me.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
I'm not a big but my thing is it's like saying your
daughter.
She's cursing at you, right?
She's like this is my fuckingroom.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
I'm try to do all the steps that we're saying, and
then you get to that point, yougo okay, I'll be right back?
Speaker 1 (39:27):
yeah, yeah, yeah, no.
What are you doing with ahammer and a screwdriver?
Speaker 3 (39:29):
let me show you yeah, yeah, yeah, and then you take
the pins out, and then you takethe door off and you go when you
learn don't know how with hisdaughter goes.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
She asked him to do something.
She goes.
Well, where's your checklist?
He goes well the last time Iremember was you were in a warm
house, in a warm bed with coversCheck, check, check.
Speaker 3 (39:51):
Yeah, I can't remember who the standup
comedian was.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
It was hysterical man .
I was like exactly yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
But I mean I again.
That's where I would questionyou know what then my kids would
consider toxic.
Right?
You feel me?
Right?
Because for me, discipliningand I'm only we only use the
door as an example.
You know what I mean?
Because, like I said, if we're,if you're you're in a funky
mood, I get it.
Or if I tell you to dosomething and you're going to be
defiant, go up the stairs andslam the door.
(40:20):
I let it slide the first time,like yo, don't slam the door
anymore, you do it again becauseyou think you're king shit.
Okay, now we're having aproblem.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Now the door stays open.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
Now you do it a third time and you know what you can
just stay without a door becauseyou're slamming the door.
You know it's that punishment.
They're going to kick you offwhen they're not home, and then
when they get home and they seeit, see, no, I'm more, I guess,
the fucking door.
But right, I'm sadistic.
I think that's why I come inlike I'm a little bit yeah, I'm
just, I'm still, I'm, just, I'mnot about, yeah, I just think.
(40:49):
I understand.
You know what I think it kindof.
That's how we were brought up.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because that's the kind of shit
my parents would I think there'smore to it.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
When you do stuff like that, especially teenagers,
you kind of just take awaytheir privacy, and I think
they're entitled to that.
Yeah, no, you're entitled tothe privacy when you go take a
shower and listen.
The bottom line is at somepoint our kids may not listen to
us, no matter what you do.
And then what do you do?
(41:25):
Right, Like if you tell them ifyou tell them you can't do this
and they do, and you tell themand you're like do you throw
them out?
Do you do you?
You know?
Sometimes you can't like.
Speaker 3 (41:33):
But you're still not going to slam the door in my
house.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
That's where I'm at.
But would that example be thesame used in this example,
example where, let's say, youborrow the car and you're not
supposed to have it, but you getit because of a certain
situation and then you drive andyou drive recklessly and you
hit mailboxes and you put damageon the car and now I'm gonna
take away their door.
No, no no no, I'm gonna takeaway the car.
(41:58):
You're not gonna drive anymore,but that's different, though,
because because you can't beagain.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
This is this is me.
This is me, this is my opinion.
Right Is taking away their car,taking away their phone,
shutting off the Internet, stufflike that.
That's different.
You're taking away an object,you're taking away a privilege.
I just don't see a bedroom dooras a privilege.
I just see a bedroom door as—.
Speaker 3 (42:20):
A basic need.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
Yeah, it's part of the basic need.
It's like it allows me to gointo my space and allows me to
close off.
I just like would you take a?
Would you take the door off thebathroom?
No, I wouldn't do that yeah.
But it's there's just, there'sjust privacy Right.
Then you have to put the sheetup yeah, taking away their car,
or taking away their credit card, or taking away you know that's
(42:43):
, and that's just it's different, that I think, just like the
door, just kind of representsadifferent aspect of their life
and and it's and I know parentsthat do that I know, people have
done that.
I just it's not something thatokay, that's not something that
I I don't know if it's a greatidea, cause Then they always
know you can just take awaytheir dignity.
Speaker 3 (43:04):
No, I will say, though I think there's an age
limit to that.
You know what I'm saying.
Like, yeah, I'm not going to doit if my daughter is 17 years
old.
You know what I'm saying?
Right, if they were, like, 10years old, you know what You're
staying.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
Sit over there.
I'm staying in here, you sitover there.
Right, but here you sit overthere.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
Right, but if they're going to their room to slam the
door, I said that's what my getup is Come out.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
You don't deserve to be in this room right now.
You need to come and sit outover here with me.
Speaker 3 (43:30):
Put them in the hallway on the floor.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
Because the room itself is a privilege, not the
door.
Speaker 3 (43:34):
The room is their room, it's their space.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Listen, we always say it's my house, my house, but
but we give our kids their room.
Speaker 3 (43:40):
Right, it's their space.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
I can remove them from that space for a little bit
, right, right, but eventually,when they go to sleep, when I
feel that they're safe, now goup to your room.
Go up to your room, becausewhat are you really doing?
It really is.
It's like a power move, like Ican do this.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
Right, well, it's better than me choking the shit
out of you.
That's kind of how I was goingto do it Right again.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
so it's like it's out of your frustration.
But you know what?
There's really not a purpose toit, except that you're
frustrated because you couldn'tget your kid to do what you want
them to do.
That's why parents hit theirkids Aside from an instant
reaction like get away from thestove or something like that or
pulling them by the hair.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
If they're walking down the middle of the street in
a car, stop Right but, that'sdifferent, because that's the
only thing you can grab.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
But when you go and you hit your kid as punishment,
it's because you're frustratedthat they didn't do what you
want them to do and you have noother option, because hitting
them really doesn't change thecircumstances and you can say
well, they won't do it again.
But we don't know that.
We don't know that becauseyou've, if you've, ever been
spanked more than once, right,you've done it again.
(44:56):
You've done something again.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
So it doesn't really work.
But it also goes to like allright.
So kenny and I agree on that,or we we have that in common, I
should say, because that'ssomething we'll be like.
All right, that's what you know.
But that came because ourparents kind of did that in a
sense.
So we're getting that from likefrom this learned behavior so
what I want to say also to learnbehavior can also be broken
right.
My dad would get beat for hismoney, his bike money, or his
(45:21):
mother was an alcoholic.
She treated him like shit.
She beat him all the time.
Yeah, he wound up going in thenavy, got away from her and then
when I was a kid he couldn'thit me and my brother and if he
did out of the times, like yousaid, I could count on my hand.
If that many he got sick, he'dhave to go run to the bathroom
right and throw up because hecouldn't like.
(45:42):
He didn't like the fact that hewas sitting.
Speaker 4 (45:43):
I completely get that .
In fact I'm.
I'm gonna say, you know,without getting into too much
detail, is I use the way I wasraised as a blueprint.
Speaker 3 (45:52):
I want not to raise your kids, as you know what I
mean.
Speaker 4 (45:55):
You know right, yeah, yeah, and you do eventually I
mean, you do figure it out, youknow, some people, some people
don't, some people just go thisway raised, I'm going to raise
my parents this way I'm going tobeat the shit out of them or
I'm going to you know tell them.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
They're an asshole you know or?
Speaker 4 (46:09):
tell them they're worthless because that worked
for me.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
I don't know, not if you're telling your kid that
you're worthless, because thenit didn't really work for you
casting right right right, youknow when I say that worked for
me, you know.
But yeah, so we say you know,if you grew up in a, if you grew
up in an abusive household, youwould more likely be an abusive
parent yourself, likely or not?
No, because there's there's oneof two things yeah, you're
(46:34):
going to be, or you're not goingto be, shitty I'm not doing
that or whatever.
Speaker 4 (46:38):
That's the way it is, yeah again, some people don't
wake up when, like I said, theperspective, we were perspective
we were talking about you wake,you know you you're raised with
and you don't have thatperspective.
But some people never get thatperspective.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
And they wind up turning into the people that did
it to them and they wind updoing the same thing to whoever
they have, you know, theirchildren, and so on.
It's like a domino effect, likeI was punished, I'm going to
punish you.
It's like a domino effect LikeI was punished.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
I'm going to punish you.
It's like I said before, likethat meme or that thing I was
saying to my daughter was likethey're going to have the
opposite of daddy issues.
Speaker 3 (47:09):
Right right right.
Speaker 4 (47:10):
It's not going to happen.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
My dad's father ran off when my dad was 13, stole
his bar mitzvah money and leftand that was it.
And and my father was a fuckingamazing father.
He was there for us, he, he wasloving and caring and
affectionate.
Speaker 4 (47:31):
He wasn't his dad, he wasn't grandpa leo, I think
that's.
I think that's what how peopleturn lemonade out of lemons.
Speaker 1 (47:36):
Yeah, my dad wasn't like his dad and he wasn't like
his mother, but there were somethings, of course, that they
still wind up having, but thattakes time right.
So, like for all of us, you getto a point and hopefully you
learn and you get into adifferent space and you're
comfortable with yourself andyou're not allowing people to do
that shit to you anymore.
You're like, oh okay yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
I'm done with that and fortunately I am every bit
my dad and I'm proud of that.
So that's, that's why you won'ttake the door off the hangers
right there you go this was agood conversation, yeah but with
that, that's our time for today.
Speaker 3 (48:09):
Alright, that was awesome, so that was cool, ended
up on a good note.
Thank you, sir.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (48:13):
I appreciate you being here, like always.
Can't wait for the sports onewith Pink Tom that was a good
one yeah, yeah, yeah it.
Speaker 4 (48:23):
I don't come up with ideas for topics often, but when
I do, you know, I try to comeup with a good one the most
emerging man in the world.
Speaker 3 (48:29):
Yeah, that's you.
I don't always drink beers, butwhen I do, when I do.
Speaker 4 (48:34):
I prefer Dos Equis.
Oh look, they got a freeadvertisement.
There you go.
Speaker 3 (48:39):
So with that, thank everybody for listening.
Hope you enjoyed this episode.
So love peace and hair grease,live long and prosper and go
vegan.
Speaker 1 (48:46):
Let's go Mets yeah.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!