July 2, 2025 • 25 mins
Summary
In this episode, the hosts discuss various aspects of recovery in endurance sports, particularly focusing on ultra marathons. They explore the importance of recovery, the balance between training and recovery, and practical techniques such as hot and cold therapy, napping, stretching, and self-massage. The conversation also touches on the role of nutrition in recovery and the significance of planning post-race celebrations to enjoy the journey of endurance running.
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Takeaways
Recovery is crucial, especially as we age.
It's easy to overcommit to recovery techniques.
Hot tubs and cold plunges are effective recovery methods.
Napping can significantly aid in mental recovery.
Stretching should be tailored to individual needs.
Foam rolling is a self-guided deep tissue massage.
Nutrition plays a vital role in recovery phases.
Planning post-race celebrations enhances the recovery experience.
Enjoying the process is as important as the training.
Finding what works for your body is key.
Sound bites
"You can take it way too far."
"You can make this happen."
"Napping is like the thing."
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Recovery in Endurance Sports
02:59 The Importance of Recovery and Avoiding Overcommitment
05:51 Hot and Cold Therapy Techniques<
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
What's up bro? Welcome back, man Cheers.
Good to see you. This is our recovery episode.
This is Couch to 50K, How to finish your first ultra
marathon. I don't I don't love every bit
of recovery. I can run through some of the
(00:22):
things that I like to do, and I certainly want to hear the the
stuff that you do. Yeah, I think we should do this
from the perspective of endurance sports, of course.
But also we're not going to recommend you to jump on a $2000
spa plan, right to if you can dothat, great.
(00:45):
You know, that sounds nice. Yeah, it sounds lovely.
Take a retreat, go for it. Mineral salt baths and whatnot
sounds awesome, but there are a lot of things that we can do for
free at home and we'll focus on those as well as as some other
things, so. Yeah, dude, I love recovery.
It's like lazy time. It is, yeah.
(01:07):
That's it. It's a time where you can get
some benefit but also throw on some Netflix or whatever.
It is, yeah. And you know, as we become ultra
runners, we become people of extremes and you get to take
that into the recovery world too.
And maybe that means laying in your bed all day one day.
OK, fair enough. You know, there is a, a trap.
(01:33):
And this will be the, the main rant I have about recovery.
It's super important, especiallyas we get older.
It's something that like you canprobably get away with when
you're younger of not doing, butlike as you get older, you have
to recover and, and once you realize that like you have to
recover and you can optimize it,it starts to enhance like you
(01:56):
know what what you're doing and that's great.
And I think it's really cool, but like, you can take it way
too far and you can put more effort into recovering than into
training. And you can convince yourself
that you need to recover when you don't.
And it's just because it's easier.
And, and so it's a trap in a waywhere it's like, oh, I ran 3
(02:20):
miles. I need to lay in my bed with the
normatech legs sleeves on for anhour.
And you know it. Not that that doesn't feel
great, but like how much time are we committing to this plan?
And then you got to be realisticabout, OK, if I'm going to I'm
committing this, you know, yeah,10 hours a week to do this plan.
(02:43):
You know, you can't commit five of those to recovering.
You know, So it's just like, let's not take it too far.
We're not, you know, Olympic athletes that have like a full,
you know, staff of people helping us.
You know, we're we don't need toover analyze our recovery yet.
(03:03):
Maybe there are some Olympic athletes listening, they're
trying to get into ultra and they need our advice.
Sure. Yeah, Well, I didn't know we
were. We're headed in this direction.
I don't know why I'm surprised because it takes us back to just
keep doing the hard shed, but. But I don't want to like get
away from the importance of recovery.
(03:26):
It's just like, let's like, liketake an honest look at what
we're doing and then apply thesetechniques realistically to it.
Not saying the normatech isn't ahuge part of my recovery, but I
do know that it's an easy thing to be like, well, I've got an
hour and a half, maybe I can go run for 45 and then normatech
(03:48):
for 45 as opposed to go run for an hour and 15 and then put the
Normatech boots on for 10. Yeah, right.
So there. OK, so.
Since since we've already dropped the Normatech boots and
sort of talked about the what, why don't you just go ahead and
run through some things that youlike to do and when you like to
do that for sure. My favorite thing is the hot
(04:08):
tub. Love the hot tub.
I don't know why I feel like theyou know, like the like, you
know, I think that inflation of your muscles is good in the
build, right? So I feel like when you get in a
(04:30):
hot tub every like you, you tendto expand a little bit and
loosen up. And I feel like as you're, as
you're building, that is better than the like constriction of
the cold plunge. So I'm a hot tub over a cold
(04:51):
plunge type of guy when it comesto recovery.
Now I incorporate both of them and on a recovery week or like a
a lighter week, then I'll, I'll use the cold plunge more than
the hot tub because then it's like you're kind of put in it
back together. You're like constricting
everything. But I think it's like the Nordic
kind of method of like hot, cold, hot, cold, hot, cold.
(05:15):
So, you know, I prioritize the hot tub, but a lot of times it's
like I'm in the hot tub for 10 minutes and then I jump into the
cold plunge for three. And then I get back in the hot
tub and I jump back in the cold plunge, get a little bit of
that, like expansion and contraction.
That's my favorite, by far my favorite way to recover.
(05:37):
Now, you know, you go online like a cold plunge is like 2
grand, right? Wow, I got a solution.
All right. I have a old recycling bin that
I fill up with cold water from my hose and I leave it outside
at night and Big Bear and it turns into ice.
And I got to breakthrough it in the morning and I stand in a old
recycling bin. There we go.
(06:01):
It was free and and the water ispretty cheap.
So it's not the, you know, most ergonomic thing to get in as a
cold plunge. But I can't afford, you know,
like this whole thing with the filtration in the refrigeration
and everything. So if you're in Florida, it's
probably not going to work. I don't think it gets very cold
(06:23):
at night. You probably need to buy some
ice and dump it in there. But the point is you can make
this happen, you know, hot tub, obviously a little bit, a little
bit harder. I mean, most American homes do
have a bathtub. Hot bath, right?
Even if that's a once a week hotbath first, that's pretty doable
from yeah. Throw some Epsom salt in there.
(06:45):
It it does, it feels great, likeon your legs, the hot, cold, hot
cold that it, it really man, it's quick.
It's quick to like feel recovered from from an effort.
So it'd be kind of like an immediate thing that I I would
say like that's my immediate recovery.
(07:07):
Like it's like that's like rightafter a run.
And then if we're talking like longer, the longer sense of
recovery, it's napping. Napping is like the thing I feel
like we have recovery week and you're not going to run as much
as you normally do. Replace that time with a nap.
(07:30):
Yeah, take a couple naps and it's like, you know, you feel
great. Yeah, there, there's a lot going
on when we fall asleep that, youknow, it's, it's been
documented, but it's also one ofthose really hard things to
study for scientists and right, like we don't really know what's
happening when our body is asleep aside from the fact that
it's repairing itself, right? So obviously it's a positive for
(07:54):
us as athletes. And, and mental, the mental
recovery from like shutting it down is, is huge, you know,
yeah, like we were talking the other day or earlier, like I was
exhausted the other day. And like, it was a mental
(08:16):
exhaustion. It wasn't like a physical thing.
It wasn't like I was too tired to go run.
It was like mentally I like couldn't get the motivation.
I just kind of felt like, you know, like I didn't want to be
going out there. There were other things I needed
to do and wanted, you know, I wanted to do.
(08:38):
And a lot of times, like, you'rejust tired, you know, and, and
getting a yeah, cut an extra 40 minutes of sleep doesn't sound
like a lot, but like, if it's atthe right time, it's like, Oh,
yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
It's like for me sometimes too. I just need to check one box,
right. Like I, I was going through a
similar thing, but I, I wasn't stressed out or anxious or
(09:01):
anything like that. It was, it was more that, yeah,
we, we have pretty real winters here in Big Bear and there are
times when I just don't want to be cold, you know, I'm just kind
of over frustrated with it. Like I'm not going to be cold,
you know. So I was like, I need to go for
a run. I don't want to.
It's really cold outside. It was in the 20s, so I'm going
to put on a lot of. Clothes.
(09:22):
And I'm still going to go run and of course I'm dripping sweat
after like 3/4 of a mile, but I wasn't cold and it got me out
the door, you know? So sometimes there's a like a
weird twist on things that I think can help.
What I mentioned early on, the parts of recovery that I don't
like, I do not like stretching in like I've just, I don't like
(09:44):
the feeling of pushing my muscles or tendons or just my
body in general beyond what is comfortable.
And I can get there. You know, if it's a full blown
like yin yoga practice and the, the environment is its thing and
I'm holding a pose for a long time.
I, I can get to the point where I do enjoy it, but I've never
(10:08):
been a super flexible person andit, it just hurts you.
Like I don't like that sort of not intense, but constant pain
of, of doing, of holding a stretch.
Just never something I've enjoyed.
You're yeah, you're not going tohear anything like against that.
(10:28):
For me, I'm not, I'm not a stretcher.
I actually feel like I want my like, I want to be tight.
I feel like there's rebound, especially when it comes to
running. There's like, like the rebound
is the where the force is AT. And if it's loose, it doesn't
(10:49):
make sense to me. It feels like having like a
tight body put together that's like able to move, you know,
obviously without restrictions, you know, but I don't but but
stretch, the idea of stretching almost takes it too far for me.
(11:14):
It's like I like to warm up. I like my but within the range
of motion, that dynamic stretch,yeah, that's like applicable to
the run. I don't want to go further.
Like I don't want I want it to snap back at the right time and
feel like it's at its that's where it's at its best.
But it's a weird thing, you know, because.
(11:35):
It is. Well, it feels like we're, we're
talking about like a rubber bandalmost, right?
It's a metaphor, of course. I mean, we have ligaments and
tendons that are similar to that.
But there is a point too where if you're just so tight
something can snap, you can findan injury.
And this is where we get into the part I, I think at least
(11:55):
where it's very body dependent, you know, like maybe you don't
need to stretch almost at all. And maybe somebody else needs to
stretch a lot to avoid, you know, super tightness to the
point that's going to cause an injury.
And that's where, of course, we are not providing medical
advice. That's.
Like my big thing too is like running ultras and running track
(12:22):
and field are completely different things.
And there might be like if you're going out to Sprint 100,
you know, meter dash, like stretching might be like the
answer. Like I don't, I'm not like I
don't come from that world. And to me, it's like the
personal experience of what it'staking for me to run really far
(12:43):
is like, I need that feels more real, like a better way to treat
my body. But yeah, I there's stretching
is like the name of the game fora lot of people, you know, and
so. It's well, to be a little more
specific, I can tell you what I what I try to do.
(13:06):
I I like to definitely warm up before every run, no matter how
long, short, whatever dynamic stretching, you know, side
lunges, you heal or toe touches,right, popping those legs out,
all the kind of typical stretches you'd see.
Like you think about a swimmer on the blocks before he gets
started, right? He's moving, right?
He's not, you know, holding his arm out and stretching like
(13:29):
this, right? It's all dynamic out.
So I like dynamic stretching before everything I do.
And I like to at least once a week have like a dedicated
session of recovery, which to meis usually like foam rolling
combined with some deep stretching and the whole thing
taking maybe an hour, right. And then I love the hot exposure
(13:53):
in a, in a hot tub. We do have a hot tub, which
makes it easy at our house. So I mean, we do that all the
time anyway. Just it, I sleep better, feel
better. That's three or four nights a
week, regardless of training. So that's just kind of something
that's happening, which is nice.But even if it wasn't, I let
that's, it's nice to couple thatwith the recovery session to hop
(14:14):
in the hot tub. The body just loosens up, right.
But I've felt that too. Like, I, I understand what you
mean when you talk about wantingto stay a little tighter because
the day after that, if I try to get up and go for a run, I walk
out. I feel like Gumby.
Yeah. You know, I'm like my whole
body's just kind of like, where are you going, bro?
What are we going to do now? You know, like this is, this is
(14:38):
not how I want to feel on race morning especially, right?
So I won't be doing that the night before, Right.
But I, for me at least getting alittle older, it's an important
part of, of where I'm at becauseI'll start to feel the little,
you know, the little tightness points throughout my week.
If I, if I skip that recovery session, like a bigger dedicated
(14:59):
recovery session once a week, I'll start to feel the tightness
and you know, almost like feel an injury coming, you know, or
like just, you know, not even aninjury, but just like something
that makes. Yeah.
Yeah, just overuse type of like tightness, you know.
Yeah, dude. You know, another thing to
mention, you mentioned foam rolling and there's all kinds of
(15:24):
like I would, I would put the Normatech boots into that, into
that category tissue. Massage, yes.
There's so there's, you know, however many different styles of
massager and motive, you know, air do the air boots and you can
go get personal massages. And I was talking to Kale about
(15:46):
acupuncture. He gets acupuncture.
Oh, wow. And it's like recommended by the
coach up here. And I have like a mental problem
with like letting people push onme.
So no massage I don't. No.
Chiropractor No. Acupuncture no.
(16:06):
And, and I know a lot of people that swear by this stuff, you
know, like Harold is he's done acupuncture and he said it's
great. He's goes to shout to Tom and
he's like, oh, he's does amazingthings like this hurt and he
rubbed on my leg for whatever and then it didn't hurt and.
I've heard that story repeatedlyfrom different people.
(16:29):
But then I always go back and I'm like, why?
You have to keep going to him and you know, and and again, I
don't, I don't know. I'm just my personal phobia is
like you pushing on me the wrongway and it not it, it not me not
liking me, no liking, you know, like, you know, like I'm very,
(16:53):
you know, I'm just like really in tune with the way my body
feels and I I don't I don't havetrust yet in somebody else doing
something to me to make like, I'm like, Oh, I made it this
far. And it that could be a huge like
limiting factor in my thinking, which is I doubt you know, I.
(17:15):
Mean maybe, but I doubt it. I, I think there, I think that's
a more interesting point is thatyou, you start to really get in
tune with your body, especially in endurance sports, to the
point where you just know, like,you know, if you need the
recovery and you know, you're doing a disservice by skipping
it. You know, if you're ready to go
(17:36):
out there and you're wasting an opportunity if you don't, right.
And I would say like, at least from what I, I know what you've
done, I know your resume, you'vedone, you've spent enough hours
out there on the grind to know, to be in tune with how your body
feels. You know, and I mean, I'm, I'm
not just trying to like build you up and say great job man,
(17:59):
you know, but I, I put a lot more stock in the personal
appraisal of what's going on within your own body.
Yeah, than somebody telling you what you should do three times a
week or. It's hard when they're making
money too. You know, it's like a like, I'm
not going to talk shit about mechanics, but like, I don't
know about cars. And so when I drop you off my
(18:21):
car off, you know, it's like, you know, how come I got to keep
coming back? Yeah.
What are you doing under that hood that's, you know, making
this bolt loose now, like. And, yeah, just general distrust
of people, I guess. But you know.
Feels like this a similar thing right?
You walk into a massage right spot, even if they specialize in
(18:43):
strength and and sports, you know like they want you in there
every month absolutely so like okay, you know we can work on
the you know and then. But going back to where I was
going with the whole not lettingpeople touch me thing, the, you
know, the Normatech boots and the foam roller and those
(19:03):
things, you know, you start playing with them and you figure
out what they do pretty quickly.You know, you, you figure out if
you lay on a foam roller on yourside, it's like there's a way to
make your leg hurt that you've never felt before, you know, and
then afterwards it feels great. And it's like you start, you
know, you start playing with these different devices and, you
(19:25):
know, and how to use them and how to incorporate them into
your recovery. And you know, I, yeah, you can.
I think you can do a lot for yourself.
Yeah, for sure. The foam roller is a thing,
right? It's, you know, there's there's
people out there that say it's, it's not the right thing to do.
Yeah, I think they're in the minority.
It's basically a deep tissue massage that you're self
(19:47):
guiding, right? And it's it's crazy, man.
Like there are, there are there are muscles or regions of
fascia. I guess that's what we're really
talking about is myofascial release, right?
We're we're freeing up that system, that web that can, that
holds our entire body right And.There are parts that hurt like
(20:10):
hell and there's other parts that's like, I could do that.
Oh, there's a little knot. I'll work it out.
Like that's not a big deal, right?
But for me, it's my quads. Like when I'm when I start
rolling out my quads, I'm in theliving room screaming, you know,
my kids are like, what are you doing?
It's OK. Why are you crying old man?
(20:30):
Laying on the ground, rolling ona piece of foam like crying.
I can feel so good. I I like some of it.
I hate others, but you know, then that's the same thing with
general stretching too. I try to do deep stretching
workouts. That's that's my once a week
thing that I try to do. It's like a nice deep stretch,
mainly lower body and parts of it are just really
(20:54):
uncomfortable, you know, But I also know that afterwards I feel
great. It's kind of like trying to get
out there on that second run of the day or the run that you
don't want to do, you know, and,and 10 minutes in it, it feels
really good. Do you use any kind of like
bombs or like like 1A topical like, oh, like a mom like, yeah,
(21:15):
I'm like, are you used to? I heard bomb like an atomic
bomb. There's no.
Not really. I, I I haven't used too much of
that. I used to use like bio freeze,
you know, it's like a cooling version but more of an in
workout thing. But it was once I realized it's
all just topical and mental and like I'm I'll just, I'll just do
that in my on my own brain. You know, I'm sure there are
(21:38):
topical bombs that have actual medicinal purposes to them.
I don't know. Or maybe there's not.
I don't know. The short answer to that one is
no. Yeah.
No, not using anything. Yeah, interesting.
Do you? No, I don't no, my main, my main
recovery again, it's like the the hot cold, some personal
(22:03):
devices. I I'm fortunate I got that Norma
tech, which is pretty cool that that helps with the legs
napping, you know, or, or reallygood night sleeps.
And then I guess, you know, you,you got to mention nutrition in
recovery and we were talking about this too, as, as like
(22:27):
you're like when you're, it's kind of like taper slash
recovery and you know what you're eating when you're in
this phase of, of a plan versus the like build phase.
You know, if you're like, if you're taking the, the last week
of the month as like a recovery month and you're building up
(22:49):
your mileage and stuff during the first three weeks, then you
get to that last week and you got to really look at your, your
diet and you're not going to be burning the same number of
calories that you were burning. And, you know, if you just like
lay around and eat like you werewhen you were running, like
that's not proper recovery. So, you know, like being extra
(23:11):
healthy on recovery weeks, you're not burning the same type
of calories, you know, not, you know, not to to take away from
the like the cheat days and stuff.
But like, you know, it's probably, it might be a little
bit more important you like during the recovery phase of
your of your workout to not be like as loose with your diet.
(23:36):
Yeah, you know. Yeah, that's a great point that
goes back to like, what are we rebuilding our muscles with,
right, You know? Yeah, your mic and ICS.
Or. Or something positive.
Hey, you're happy, Happy muscles.
Happy muscles. Cool man, I feel good.
This was a great episode about recovery.
We at least shared what we do and the things that we like.
(23:58):
I'd love to hear, you know, fromother people that things that
they like to do that I'm sure there's things that we could
incorporate that, you know, whether they're small tips and
tricks or it's like, hey, have you tried a yoga retreat to
Costa Rica post race? No, I haven't, but maybe I
would, I don't know. I got to say did.
I spent a couple days in Puerto Vallarta after the UTMB Mexico
(24:21):
race at the like all inclusive Hyatt.
Tough one to beat. Pretty nice way to recover.
Yeah. So like I think the recovery
answer is tequila with the what's the stuff around the rim?
Tahin, Yeah, Tahin rim. OK, very nice.
Well, the actually there's there's an interesting mental
(24:45):
last point there to to point outright, like planned the post
race. Oh yeah, you know, like, for
sure, just because it's fun to plan, right?
Like don't cross the finish lineand go, you know?
Off to work, right take. A day take what you can, you
know, find your time, find your people and and celebrate a
little bit without getting too crazy and sick but you know,
(25:07):
like. Yeah, it's that can't be
understated. The, you know, we, we keep
talking about all the hard things we're doing and, and you
know how you know, you're, you're cutting this out of your
life and you're running more andyou're doing all these things
and it's like, right. But like the goal of life is to
enjoy the thing as well. So yeah, man, plan the, the post
(25:31):
race BBQ or whatever it is and, and enjoy it.
Hell yeah. Have some recovery beers?
Yeah. Cheers, brother.
Cheers. Couch to 50K is an elevated
SoCal project. All rights reserved.
What's up bro? Welcome back, man Cheers.
Good to see you. This is our recovery episode.
This is Couch to 50K, How to finish your first ultra
marathon. I don't I don't love every bit
of recovery. I can run through some of the
(00:22):
things that I like to do, and I certainly want to hear the the
stuff that you do. Yeah, I think we should do this
from the perspective of endurance sports, of course.
But also we're not going to recommend you to jump on a $2000
spa plan, right to if you can dothat, great.
(00:45):
You know, that sounds nice. Yeah, it sounds lovely.
Take a retreat, go for it. Mineral salt baths and whatnot
sounds awesome, but there are a lot of things that we can do for
free at home and we'll focus on those as well as as some other
things, so. Yeah, dude, I love recovery.
It's like lazy time. It is, yeah.
(01:07):
That's it. It's a time where you can get
some benefit but also throw on some Netflix or whatever.
It is, yeah. And you know, as we become ultra
runners, we become people of extremes and you get to take
that into the recovery world too.
And maybe that means laying in your bed all day one day.
OK, fair enough. You know, there is a, a trap.
(01:33):
And this will be the, the main rant I have about recovery.
It's super important, especiallyas we get older.
It's something that like you canprobably get away with when
you're younger of not doing, butlike as you get older, you have
to recover and, and once you realize that like you have to
recover and you can optimize it,it starts to enhance like you
(01:56):
know what what you're doing and that's great.
And I think it's really cool, but like, you can take it way
too far and you can put more effort into recovering than into
training. And you can convince yourself
that you need to recover when you don't.
And it's just because it's easier.
And, and so it's a trap in a waywhere it's like, oh, I ran 3
(02:20):
miles. I need to lay in my bed with the
normatech legs sleeves on for anhour.
And you know it. Not that that doesn't feel
great, but like how much time are we committing to this plan?
And then you got to be realisticabout, OK, if I'm going to I'm
committing this, you know, yeah,10 hours a week to do this plan.
(02:43):
You know, you can't commit five of those to recovering.
You know, So it's just like, let's not take it too far.
We're not, you know, Olympic athletes that have like a full,
you know, staff of people helping us.
You know, we're we don't need toover analyze our recovery yet.
(03:03):
Maybe there are some Olympic athletes listening, they're
trying to get into ultra and they need our advice.
Sure. Yeah, Well, I didn't know we
were. We're headed in this direction.
I don't know why I'm surprised because it takes us back to just
keep doing the hard shed, but. But I don't want to like get
away from the importance of recovery.
(03:26):
It's just like, let's like, liketake an honest look at what
we're doing and then apply thesetechniques realistically to it.
Not saying the normatech isn't ahuge part of my recovery, but I
do know that it's an easy thing to be like, well, I've got an
hour and a half, maybe I can go run for 45 and then normatech
(03:48):
for 45 as opposed to go run for an hour and 15 and then put the
Normatech boots on for 10. Yeah, right.
So there. OK, so.
Since since we've already dropped the Normatech boots and
sort of talked about the what, why don't you just go ahead and
run through some things that youlike to do and when you like to
do that for sure. My favorite thing is the hot
(04:08):
tub. Love the hot tub.
I don't know why I feel like theyou know, like the like, you
know, I think that inflation of your muscles is good in the
build, right? So I feel like when you get in a
(04:30):
hot tub every like you, you tendto expand a little bit and
loosen up. And I feel like as you're, as
you're building, that is better than the like constriction of
the cold plunge. So I'm a hot tub over a cold
(04:51):
plunge type of guy when it comesto recovery.
Now I incorporate both of them and on a recovery week or like a
a lighter week, then I'll, I'll use the cold plunge more than
the hot tub because then it's like you're kind of put in it
back together. You're like constricting
everything. But I think it's like the Nordic
kind of method of like hot, cold, hot, cold, hot, cold.
(05:15):
So, you know, I prioritize the hot tub, but a lot of times it's
like I'm in the hot tub for 10 minutes and then I jump into the
cold plunge for three. And then I get back in the hot
tub and I jump back in the cold plunge, get a little bit of
that, like expansion and contraction.
That's my favorite, by far my favorite way to recover.
(05:37):
Now, you know, you go online like a cold plunge is like 2
grand, right? Wow, I got a solution.
All right. I have a old recycling bin that
I fill up with cold water from my hose and I leave it outside
at night and Big Bear and it turns into ice.
And I got to breakthrough it in the morning and I stand in a old
recycling bin. There we go.
(06:01):
It was free and and the water ispretty cheap.
So it's not the, you know, most ergonomic thing to get in as a
cold plunge. But I can't afford, you know,
like this whole thing with the filtration in the refrigeration
and everything. So if you're in Florida, it's
probably not going to work. I don't think it gets very cold
(06:23):
at night. You probably need to buy some
ice and dump it in there. But the point is you can make
this happen, you know, hot tub, obviously a little bit, a little
bit harder. I mean, most American homes do
have a bathtub. Hot bath, right?
Even if that's a once a week hotbath first, that's pretty doable
from yeah. Throw some Epsom salt in there.
(06:45):
It it does, it feels great, likeon your legs, the hot, cold, hot
cold that it, it really man, it's quick.
It's quick to like feel recovered from from an effort.
So it'd be kind of like an immediate thing that I I would
say like that's my immediate recovery.
(07:07):
Like it's like that's like rightafter a run.
And then if we're talking like longer, the longer sense of
recovery, it's napping. Napping is like the thing I feel
like we have recovery week and you're not going to run as much
as you normally do. Replace that time with a nap.
(07:30):
Yeah, take a couple naps and it's like, you know, you feel
great. Yeah, there, there's a lot going
on when we fall asleep that, youknow, it's, it's been
documented, but it's also one ofthose really hard things to
study for scientists and right, like we don't really know what's
happening when our body is asleep aside from the fact that
it's repairing itself, right? So obviously it's a positive for
(07:54):
us as athletes. And, and mental, the mental
recovery from like shutting it down is, is huge, you know,
yeah, like we were talking the other day or earlier, like I was
exhausted the other day. And like, it was a mental
(08:16):
exhaustion. It wasn't like a physical thing.
It wasn't like I was too tired to go run.
It was like mentally I like couldn't get the motivation.
I just kind of felt like, you know, like I didn't want to be
going out there. There were other things I needed
to do and wanted, you know, I wanted to do.
(08:38):
And a lot of times, like, you'rejust tired, you know, and, and
getting a yeah, cut an extra 40 minutes of sleep doesn't sound
like a lot, but like, if it's atthe right time, it's like, Oh,
yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
It's like for me sometimes too. I just need to check one box,
right. Like I, I was going through a
similar thing, but I, I wasn't stressed out or anxious or
(09:01):
anything like that. It was, it was more that, yeah,
we, we have pretty real winters here in Big Bear and there are
times when I just don't want to be cold, you know, I'm just kind
of over frustrated with it. Like I'm not going to be cold,
you know. So I was like, I need to go for
a run. I don't want to.
It's really cold outside. It was in the 20s, so I'm going
to put on a lot of. Clothes.
(09:22):
And I'm still going to go run and of course I'm dripping sweat
after like 3/4 of a mile, but I wasn't cold and it got me out
the door, you know? So sometimes there's a like a
weird twist on things that I think can help.
What I mentioned early on, the parts of recovery that I don't
like, I do not like stretching in like I've just, I don't like
(09:44):
the feeling of pushing my muscles or tendons or just my
body in general beyond what is comfortable.
And I can get there. You know, if it's a full blown
like yin yoga practice and the, the environment is its thing and
I'm holding a pose for a long time.
I, I can get to the point where I do enjoy it, but I've never
(10:08):
been a super flexible person andit, it just hurts you.
Like I don't like that sort of not intense, but constant pain
of, of doing, of holding a stretch.
Just never something I've enjoyed.
You're yeah, you're not going tohear anything like against that.
(10:28):
For me, I'm not, I'm not a stretcher.
I actually feel like I want my like, I want to be tight.
I feel like there's rebound, especially when it comes to
running. There's like, like the rebound
is the where the force is AT. And if it's loose, it doesn't
(10:49):
make sense to me. It feels like having like a
tight body put together that's like able to move, you know,
obviously without restrictions, you know, but I don't but but
stretch, the idea of stretching almost takes it too far for me.
(11:14):
It's like I like to warm up. I like my but within the range
of motion, that dynamic stretch,yeah, that's like applicable to
the run. I don't want to go further.
Like I don't want I want it to snap back at the right time and
feel like it's at its that's where it's at its best.
But it's a weird thing, you know, because.
(11:35):
It is. Well, it feels like we're, we're
talking about like a rubber bandalmost, right?
It's a metaphor, of course. I mean, we have ligaments and
tendons that are similar to that.
But there is a point too where if you're just so tight
something can snap, you can findan injury.
And this is where we get into the part I, I think at least
(11:55):
where it's very body dependent, you know, like maybe you don't
need to stretch almost at all. And maybe somebody else needs to
stretch a lot to avoid, you know, super tightness to the
point that's going to cause an injury.
And that's where, of course, we are not providing medical
advice. That's.
Like my big thing too is like running ultras and running track
(12:22):
and field are completely different things.
And there might be like if you're going out to Sprint 100,
you know, meter dash, like stretching might be like the
answer. Like I don't, I'm not like I
don't come from that world. And to me, it's like the
personal experience of what it'staking for me to run really far
(12:43):
is like, I need that feels more real, like a better way to treat
my body. But yeah, I there's stretching
is like the name of the game fora lot of people, you know, and
so. It's well, to be a little more
specific, I can tell you what I what I try to do.
(13:06):
I I like to definitely warm up before every run, no matter how
long, short, whatever dynamic stretching, you know, side
lunges, you heal or toe touches,right, popping those legs out,
all the kind of typical stretches you'd see.
Like you think about a swimmer on the blocks before he gets
started, right? He's moving, right?
He's not, you know, holding his arm out and stretching like
(13:29):
this, right? It's all dynamic out.
So I like dynamic stretching before everything I do.
And I like to at least once a week have like a dedicated
session of recovery, which to meis usually like foam rolling
combined with some deep stretching and the whole thing
taking maybe an hour, right. And then I love the hot exposure
(13:53):
in a, in a hot tub. We do have a hot tub, which
makes it easy at our house. So I mean, we do that all the
time anyway. Just it, I sleep better, feel
better. That's three or four nights a
week, regardless of training. So that's just kind of something
that's happening, which is nice.But even if it wasn't, I let
that's, it's nice to couple thatwith the recovery session to hop
(14:14):
in the hot tub. The body just loosens up, right.
But I've felt that too. Like, I, I understand what you
mean when you talk about wantingto stay a little tighter because
the day after that, if I try to get up and go for a run, I walk
out. I feel like Gumby.
Yeah. You know, I'm like my whole
body's just kind of like, where are you going, bro?
What are we going to do now? You know, like this is, this is
(14:38):
not how I want to feel on race morning especially, right?
So I won't be doing that the night before, Right.
But I, for me at least getting alittle older, it's an important
part of, of where I'm at becauseI'll start to feel the little,
you know, the little tightness points throughout my week.
If I, if I skip that recovery session, like a bigger dedicated
(14:59):
recovery session once a week, I'll start to feel the tightness
and you know, almost like feel an injury coming, you know, or
like just, you know, not even aninjury, but just like something
that makes. Yeah.
Yeah, just overuse type of like tightness, you know.
Yeah, dude. You know, another thing to
mention, you mentioned foam rolling and there's all kinds of
(15:24):
like I would, I would put the Normatech boots into that, into
that category tissue. Massage, yes.
There's so there's, you know, however many different styles of
massager and motive, you know, air do the air boots and you can
go get personal massages. And I was talking to Kale about
(15:46):
acupuncture. He gets acupuncture.
Oh, wow. And it's like recommended by the
coach up here. And I have like a mental problem
with like letting people push onme.
So no massage I don't. No.
Chiropractor No. Acupuncture no.
(16:06):
And, and I know a lot of people that swear by this stuff, you
know, like Harold is he's done acupuncture and he said it's
great. He's goes to shout to Tom and
he's like, oh, he's does amazingthings like this hurt and he
rubbed on my leg for whatever and then it didn't hurt and.
I've heard that story repeatedlyfrom different people.
(16:29):
But then I always go back and I'm like, why?
You have to keep going to him and you know, and and again, I
don't, I don't know. I'm just my personal phobia is
like you pushing on me the wrongway and it not it, it not me not
liking me, no liking, you know, like, you know, like I'm very,
(16:53):
you know, I'm just like really in tune with the way my body
feels and I I don't I don't havetrust yet in somebody else doing
something to me to make like, I'm like, Oh, I made it this
far. And it that could be a huge like
limiting factor in my thinking, which is I doubt you know, I.
(17:15):
Mean maybe, but I doubt it. I, I think there, I think that's
a more interesting point is thatyou, you start to really get in
tune with your body, especially in endurance sports, to the
point where you just know, like,you know, if you need the
recovery and you know, you're doing a disservice by skipping
it. You know, if you're ready to go
(17:36):
out there and you're wasting an opportunity if you don't, right.
And I would say like, at least from what I, I know what you've
done, I know your resume, you'vedone, you've spent enough hours
out there on the grind to know, to be in tune with how your body
feels. You know, and I mean, I'm, I'm
not just trying to like build you up and say great job man,
(17:59):
you know, but I, I put a lot more stock in the personal
appraisal of what's going on within your own body.
Yeah, than somebody telling you what you should do three times a
week or. It's hard when they're making
money too. You know, it's like a like, I'm
not going to talk shit about mechanics, but like, I don't
know about cars. And so when I drop you off my
(18:21):
car off, you know, it's like, you know, how come I got to keep
coming back? Yeah.
What are you doing under that hood that's, you know, making
this bolt loose now, like. And, yeah, just general distrust
of people, I guess. But you know.
Feels like this a similar thing right?
You walk into a massage right spot, even if they specialize in
(18:43):
strength and and sports, you know like they want you in there
every month absolutely so like okay, you know we can work on
the you know and then. But going back to where I was
going with the whole not lettingpeople touch me thing, the, you
know, the Normatech boots and the foam roller and those
(19:03):
things, you know, you start playing with them and you figure
out what they do pretty quickly.You know, you, you figure out if
you lay on a foam roller on yourside, it's like there's a way to
make your leg hurt that you've never felt before, you know, and
then afterwards it feels great. And it's like you start, you
know, you start playing with these different devices and, you
(19:25):
know, and how to use them and how to incorporate them into
your recovery. And you know, I, yeah, you can.
I think you can do a lot for yourself.
Yeah, for sure. The foam roller is a thing,
right? It's, you know, there's there's
people out there that say it's, it's not the right thing to do.
Yeah, I think they're in the minority.
It's basically a deep tissue massage that you're self
(19:47):
guiding, right? And it's it's crazy, man.
Like there are, there are there are muscles or regions of
fascia. I guess that's what we're really
talking about is myofascial release, right?
We're we're freeing up that system, that web that can, that
holds our entire body right And.There are parts that hurt like
(20:10):
hell and there's other parts that's like, I could do that.
Oh, there's a little knot. I'll work it out.
Like that's not a big deal, right?
But for me, it's my quads. Like when I'm when I start
rolling out my quads, I'm in theliving room screaming, you know,
my kids are like, what are you doing?
It's OK. Why are you crying old man?
(20:30):
Laying on the ground, rolling ona piece of foam like crying.
I can feel so good. I I like some of it.
I hate others, but you know, then that's the same thing with
general stretching too. I try to do deep stretching
workouts. That's that's my once a week
thing that I try to do. It's like a nice deep stretch,
mainly lower body and parts of it are just really
(20:54):
uncomfortable, you know, But I also know that afterwards I feel
great. It's kind of like trying to get
out there on that second run of the day or the run that you
don't want to do, you know, and,and 10 minutes in it, it feels
really good. Do you use any kind of like
bombs or like like 1A topical like, oh, like a mom like, yeah,
(21:15):
I'm like, are you used to? I heard bomb like an atomic
bomb. There's no.
Not really. I, I I haven't used too much of
that. I used to use like bio freeze,
you know, it's like a cooling version but more of an in
workout thing. But it was once I realized it's
all just topical and mental and like I'm I'll just, I'll just do
that in my on my own brain. You know, I'm sure there are
(21:38):
topical bombs that have actual medicinal purposes to them.
I don't know. Or maybe there's not.
I don't know. The short answer to that one is
no. Yeah.
No, not using anything. Yeah, interesting.
Do you? No, I don't no, my main, my main
recovery again, it's like the the hot cold, some personal
(22:03):
devices. I I'm fortunate I got that Norma
tech, which is pretty cool that that helps with the legs
napping, you know, or, or reallygood night sleeps.
And then I guess, you know, you,you got to mention nutrition in
recovery and we were talking about this too, as, as like
(22:27):
you're like when you're, it's kind of like taper slash
recovery and you know what you're eating when you're in
this phase of, of a plan versus the like build phase.
You know, if you're like, if you're taking the, the last week
of the month as like a recovery month and you're building up
(22:49):
your mileage and stuff during the first three weeks, then you
get to that last week and you got to really look at your, your
diet and you're not going to be burning the same number of
calories that you were burning. And, you know, if you just like
lay around and eat like you werewhen you were running, like
that's not proper recovery. So, you know, like being extra
(23:11):
healthy on recovery weeks, you're not burning the same type
of calories, you know, not, you know, not to to take away from
the like the cheat days and stuff.
But like, you know, it's probably, it might be a little
bit more important you like during the recovery phase of
your of your workout to not be like as loose with your diet.
(23:36):
Yeah, you know. Yeah, that's a great point that
goes back to like, what are we rebuilding our muscles with,
right, You know? Yeah, your mic and ICS.
Or. Or something positive.
Hey, you're happy, Happy muscles.
Happy muscles. Cool man, I feel good.
This was a great episode about recovery.
We at least shared what we do and the things that we like.
(23:58):
I'd love to hear, you know, fromother people that things that
they like to do that I'm sure there's things that we could
incorporate that, you know, whether they're small tips and
tricks or it's like, hey, have you tried a yoga retreat to
Costa Rica post race? No, I haven't, but maybe I
would, I don't know. I got to say did.
I spent a couple days in Puerto Vallarta after the UTMB Mexico
(24:21):
race at the like all inclusive Hyatt.
Tough one to beat. Pretty nice way to recover.
Yeah. So like I think the recovery
answer is tequila with the what's the stuff around the rim?
Tahin, Yeah, Tahin rim. OK, very nice.
Well, the actually there's there's an interesting mental
(24:45):
last point there to to point outright, like planned the post
race. Oh yeah, you know, like, for
sure, just because it's fun to plan, right?
Like don't cross the finish lineand go, you know?
Off to work, right take. A day take what you can, you
know, find your time, find your people and and celebrate a
little bit without getting too crazy and sick but you know,
(25:07):
like. Yeah, it's that can't be
understated. The, you know, we, we keep
talking about all the hard things we're doing and, and you
know how you know, you're, you're cutting this out of your
life and you're running more andyou're doing all these things
and it's like, right. But like the goal of life is to
enjoy the thing as well. So yeah, man, plan the, the post
(25:31):
race BBQ or whatever it is and, and enjoy it.
Hell yeah. Have some recovery beers?
Yeah. Cheers, brother.
Cheers. Couch to 50K is an elevated
SoCal project. All rights reserved.
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