May 26, 2025 • 30 mins
Curious about becoming a thought leader or author? In this episode of Count Me In, host Adam Larson chats with Ben Cena, Co-founder at High Value Author, about how to turn your expertise into a nonfiction book that actually gets noticed. Ben shares his own story—starting with hating books—and explains how he now helps professionals use books as powerful tools for building brands, attracting clients, and opening doors.
You’ll hear honest advice about why most books fail, what makes a book succeed, and practical steps for getting started the right way. If you’ve ever wondered if writing a book is right for you or how it could impact your business, this episode is packed with insights you won’t want to miss.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Adam Larson (00:21):
Welcome to Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larson.
And today, I'm chatting with BenCena, cofounder and High Value
Author. Ben's not your typicalpublishing expert. He started
out hating books and ended upbuilding and selling a
successful publishing business.
In this episode, Ben shares whynon fiction books can be
powerful tools for personalbranding and business growth and
what separates few successfulauthors from many who struggle.
(00:43):
If you've ever wondered how toturn your expertise into high
value book or what it reallytakes to become a recognized
thought leader, you won't wantto miss Ben's practical advice
and insider insights. Let's getstarted. Well, Ben, I just want
to thank you for coming on thepodcast. Excited to talk to you,
(01:04):
to talk to you about folksbecoming thought leaders and
authors.
And I wanted to get started justby asking what kind of inspired
you to start helpingprofessionals become thought
leaders? And maybe you couldtell a little bit about your
story.
Ben Cena (01:16):
Sure. You know, well, first of all, I hate books. I
hate I hated books, not hatebooks. I hated books when I was
in in school and college, youknow. And I think no.
It probably was by accident. Youknow? I was a personal trainer
in my past life. I was you know,I'm still as passionate about
(01:37):
health as I was. Maybe I'm gonnado that in another ten years.
But now my colleague in the gymI was working, he was involved
in publishing space. So he saidhe's doing this, you know, and
it kinda like made me curious.So we we developed a couple of
(01:59):
publishing businesses. We soldthem for 6 figure sums, you
know, back in 2018, '19, whichis what really was self
published, everything. You know?
So I think this was the start,and we really saw the trend on
Amazon and how the books and howdifferent solutions you know? We
(02:22):
just really discovered thatbecause I always thought that
books are, you know, the fictionstuff, you know, the boring
stuff nobody likes to read. Thisis what I what we were told in
school, in college, and allthese kind of things. Later on,
I figured out that books areproblem solving tools, and
that's what really hooked me in.And then later, after selling
(02:46):
those couple of businesses onAmazon, we figured that people
are really struggling withunderstanding what is the
purpose of a book.
The experts, authority, allthese kind of things and the
alignment and how people arehaving completely different
conversations with clients,investors, yada yada. If you
(03:10):
know how to use a book and youknow how to create this
masterpiece of a tool. So Ithink really understanding that,
probably what happened aboutfive years ago in 2019, '20 '20,
that's where the real shifthappened. We realized there are
so much untapped potential forso many experts out there.
(03:32):
Listen, there are 65 plusmillion books on Amazon, Barnes
and Noble.
Less than a hundred thousandbooks sell more than one copy a
day. Less than a hundredthousand books. Most books die
after all the uncles and auntsbuy them, right, in the first
(03:53):
two weeks after the launch.Right? And then nobody cares.
And I think this is where itreally started with, okay. No,
if you're really solvingproblems with those books, they
should last year, not just, youknow, some nice little project
which never came to fruition.That was my long winded answer.
Adam Larson (04:14):
Yeah. No, no, no. It's interesting hearing you say
that, especially about thenumbers when it comes to books,
how, you know, most of them justkind of, you know, all the aunts
and uncles buy them, you know, alittle hoopla and then it just
goes to die. You know, knowingall that, why would somebody
say, Hey, I want to now becomean author? This is like a non
(04:35):
fiction book for business.
Like, why would somebody want tobecome an author knowing that
this is like the market forbooks right now?
Ben Cena (04:41):
Well, it really depends what we really seen most
for the most part for the mainreason, right, which really
people don't really share. Theydon't really say that reason off
the bat, but they're saying,okay, want to spread the
message. Now after a deeperconversation, we really figure
that there are kinda like twomain reasons. Like I said, one
(05:03):
is there were really two mainreasons. First, they want to
take their personal brand andtheir name to a different level.
Now what does that mean? In mostcases, that means I am in that
world. And silly enough, thatmeans I am smart. I am in a book
(05:26):
world. I am smart.
This is no. I'll give you somemore numbers that might make you
think. Year over year I I willnot give you the exact number
here, but physical book salesand ebook sales are growing
every single year withoutexception since probably
(05:47):
02/2005. The readership of thosebooks are declining on average
about 7% every year from a totalreadership percentage. What does
that mean?
People are buying books, notreally reading books, but they
want to shelf them, show them inthe background, on Zoom, you
(06:10):
know, all these kind of things.Now why people want to become
authors is to be one of those,you know, in that shelf, to be
perceived as the smart people,as people of intellect in that
space. Right? That's the firstone. And the second one, after a
(06:33):
bit more thinking, they realizethat that is a great way to
create conversations, createhigh ticket lead generation in
current terms, and really bringin money, bring in real now
(06:54):
talking to investors, talking topotential clients about big
projects.
If you know how to use a bookfor that and the positioning is
right, it happens a lot if youknow what you're doing.
Adam Larson (07:08):
Yeah. Now, are there any success stories that
you can share of people you'veworked with? Obviously, you
don't have to mention any names,but are there any stories of
folks who gave this a shot andworked with you and were able to
see great success in growingtheir business with it?
Ben Cena (07:21):
Yeah, sure. So one of the people that we worked with
and still working with, he'slived in Dubai and really
tracked data on that, where wemanaged to scale. He's in
education business, onlineeducation. He's selling
products, building relationshipswith people. And he really we
really managed to use this toolto educate people on what he's
(07:45):
doing and move people to hisprogram, which is between 5,000
and $9,000 for the most part.
Right? And I think I'll not giveyou the exact number, but it's
between 2,000 and $3,000 whichhe collected in a span of about
eight months after the launch ofa book directly from a book,
(08:06):
which we managed to count fromthe pathway that was created,
not even counting people whoread it and then came back
later, these kinds of things. Soit was probably more of a
specific kind of vague storywhere it really works and it's
really more measurable. Theother thing we also did with one
(08:26):
of our clients is after thelaunch, we were scheduled for a
conference where we wanted toposition a book, and I think
there was 100 seats, Right? Andwe decided to gift every person,
every manager, which was formanagers.
He's in a space of talentacquisition in corporate
environment. So for him, it'smore about opening conversations
(08:51):
with building relationships.Right? And what we did, we
decided to go after thestrategy, like a more physical
strategy, and planned hundredbooks for those hundred people
and create a presentation in away to use that book as a
leverage so when people can booka call with, that person during
(09:13):
a conference for every singleperson who have a book. And I
think we had like 50 callsbooked from those hundred
people.
Right? So I think this is more amore juicy, to the point
examples of if you know how touse it right and you're really
going after it, you can reallyno. One conversation changes
everything. One conversation cangive you a return on the
(09:36):
investment or time spent on aproject like this. Of course,
most people don't do it.
It takes either work or workingwith some team who knows what
they are doing, but, you know,you you you have to know why
you're doing this. What do youwant this book to do? This is
one of the main questions I askon the on the initial call that
(09:56):
I have with people. What whatwhat are you trying to achieve
with with your book? Andusually, we we don't really have
a strong reason.
And I'm really pleased to talkto some people sometimes where
they say, okay. The reason why Iwant this book is because I want
to build my personal brand, andI want to create a bridge and
(10:17):
create this networkingopportunity with this kind of
clients. I love that answer.That this means this person
knows knows what he's talkingabout. And usually, these are
higher level people who reallyunderstand that kind of
language, that kind ofpossibility.
Right? So for anybody listening,you know, you really have to
look at the book not as apassion project because for the
(10:40):
most part, it is not. Somepeople say it. There is a reason
why only why why 97% of peoplenever 97% of people who start
the first chapter never finishis because they don't have a
reason why we started. And theyhave when they have financial
obligations every single day, nomatter if they're in business,
(11:01):
if they're in corporateenvironment, you are gonna go
after whatever else you have todo opposed to your passion
project.
That happens every single time.That's why people never finish
unless you have a clear visionon what you want to accomplish
with this particular book andwhat you want this book to do
for you, for your personalbrand. And usually it has to be
(11:23):
finance related. Otherwise, it'smore difficult to justify it.
Adam Larson (11:27):
Yeah. So let's say somebody's listening to our
conversation. They're like, I'mreally curious about this. You
know, I want to be seen as athought leader. Maybe I could
write a book.
You know, what are those firststeps they should take if they
want to start moving in thatdirection?
Ben Cena (11:40):
It's interesting question that you ask, and I
like how you phrase it, thisquestion. The question is, do
you want to write a book or doyou want to publish a book?
That's the distinction. Mostpeople cannot write a book
unless you at least you're an ifyou're an amateur writer, then I
might suggest. But I wouldassume that most people
(12:00):
listening to this, they're busy.
They have things going on.They're entrepreneurs. They're
high level managers working incorporate environment. Right? So
you really have to, almost byexception, partner up with
somebody who understands theprocess and can say, okay, if
(12:22):
you want to accomplish this,this is a pathway.
If you want to accomplish that,this is a pathway. Right? You
really have to know those kindsof things. And it's really
difficult to just have a chatthe GBT chat with somebody,
right, you know, say, well, Iknow what I'm doing. I'm gonna
do this.
(12:42):
You know? And it it never comesthrough. So you really have to
consult with somebody. But nowwhat are the first steps? First
of all, you have to I'm gonna goback, but you have to know why
you're doing this.
Now once you know the reasonswhy you're doing this, the first
step is to create an idea.Right? How that idea ties up to
(13:04):
your goals. The idea is usuallythe main title of a book, and
that's the connection betweenthe title and the cover. It's a
magic combination, the magicduo, which I always describe.
And this is all also part of thereason why whenever somebody
works with us, we always captureat least some part of the book
(13:25):
cover in the very beginning. Notat the end. Most people do it in
the end. Okay. I have my bookfinished, and now I'm gonna do
the cover.
You want to see how it lookslike. You want to know what kind
of words are you using to grabyour reader and grab your ideal
customer potentially. So thenyou can say, okay. Here is my
(13:49):
idea, and here is how it matcheswith my goals. So this is where
the whole journey starts.
Not writing, not, you know, noteven the outline, but the title
and the cover. That's where itstarts.
Adam Larson (14:06):
Yeah. So as they're going through that process, you
know, let's say they're
Ben Cena (14:10):
It cannot happen the shower. It cannot happen in the
shower, though. It cannot happenin the shower? It cannot happen
in the shower. The shower ideausually doesn't work.
Adam Larson (14:19):
Yeah. But maybe a shower idea can be molded into
something that's really goodover time, of course.
Ben Cena (14:25):
Of course. Of course, it can. But it has to be
justified with what is out thereand what with their research. It
has to be justified.
Adam Larson (14:33):
Yeah.
Ben Cena (14:33):
It can be born in the shower, but it cannot be
structured in the shower. Let'sput it this way.
Adam Larson (14:38):
Yes, of course. So are there are there common
challenges or things to look outfor as somebody is kind of
walking down this path? Youknow, they've got the idea,
they've started the process. Arethere challenges that they're
going to face that they should,you know, be aware of that they
should, you know, because it'sobviously not a walk in the
park. You're not just going tosay, oh, I'm writing a book.
And then two days later you haveit all written.
Ben Cena (14:58):
Expectation. Have clear expectations of what is
going to happen, right? One ofthe other questions that I ask
always before we work withanybody is how much time are you
willing to commit to this? Andnot just willing, I would phrase
it differently. How much timecan you conservatively or you
(15:23):
would want to conservativelyallocate for this kind of
project?
And I don't want to give an houramount to anybody. I want them
to think. And usually, some mostpeople say, well, I can do ten
hours a week. Or some peoplesay, well, I can do eight hours
four hours a day. And that'susually just nonsense.
(15:45):
Right? Now you you really haveto know and set up the
expectations right. Now the theright answer usually lands
between five and fifteen hours.Again, really depending closer
to fifteen if you, for somereason, for some crazy reason,
you decide to write everythingyourself. Now that's that's
(16:06):
gonna get closer to fifteen.
If you're working with some teamwho know what what we are doing,
that's going to be much closerto five or sometimes even lower
if you know your customer verywell. If you know the kind of
message and the structure of amessage and what you really want
to share very well. The more youknow that the less time you
(16:27):
need, the less communication hasto happen between the
professionals and you as I callit like a raw material. The
author is usually the rawmaterial because the uniqueness
is attached to the person. Theperson has to provide that raw
material to create thismasterpiece.
So setting up the rightexpectations and knowing, okay,
(16:49):
it's going to be a five monthprocess, six month process. And
on average, you're gonna have toallocate this amount of time on
average. I'm not saying everysingle week. No. Things happen.
We're in business. All allthings happen. But not having
the right expectations andsaying, well, I'm gonna do this
with this amount of hours. I'mgonna do this and this and this.
And the second week, oh, I haveto travel there.
(17:12):
I have to go there. I have tomeet these people, and then
everything falls apart. Thatdoesn't happen. That's the
biggest mistake people make.
Adam Larson (17:20):
Yeah. I want to circle back to something you
mentioned about the topic, howimportant it is to understand
the topic to the fullest extent.And, you know, what does it look
like from, you know, from anauthor's perspective? You know,
obviously, if you're gettinghelp, that's helpful. But you
know, if you're trying to be athought leader, there's a
certain amount of research andunderstanding of the whole the
topic as a whole to be able toexplain it in a way that you can
(17:40):
write it down as an author.
Ben Cena (17:42):
Yeah, that's a good, very good question. Now, there's
a two way answer to this. Firstof all, the question the
question back to to that personwho is thinking about that is on
how well do you know that personyou're writing this book for?
Because it always comes back towhat are you trying to achieve
(18:02):
and for who. And the reverseengineering from that is much
easier than just saying, this isthe idea or this is that idea.
Right? It doesn't work likethat. You have to really think
about serving a particularperson and saying, okay, what
would capture that person? Howwould that person understand it?
(18:24):
And then align that with yourstyle.
The alignment then happens tohave, here's the kind of
personality you have. Now,second important part of this
is, the question is where you'regoing for the next two, three,
four, five years. Are you tryingto change something in your
business? Are you planning tochange the career? Or are you
(18:49):
staying in the same business?
Are you gonna up your skills?Are you gonna change your if you
know that answer, and I havenumerous conversations with
people all the time, right? Ifyour plan is to go after this
market in these many years andyour customer, for example,
changes, well, it's gonna bedifferent. The idea is gonna be
(19:10):
different because you are gonnabe talking to maybe a different
kind of person. So it's more youhave to answer how well you know
the customer and reverseengineer from that, Plus, you
have to know where you're going.
What is your plan for a for aforeseeable future? Because then
you asked me about the mistakespeople make. If you can't really
(19:32):
align the future with the book,the motivation is gonna be
drained. You got you got you'renot gonna be constantly inspired
unless you can consistently seethe connection between where
you're going and what you'redoing. And the book is the big
part of what you're doing.
(19:53):
So that's the answer. Well,
Adam Larson (19:55):
that makes sense. So let's talk about what happens
after the book's written. Youknow, what role does things like
social media online presencekind of play in promotions and
just making sure that youbecause obviously you can write
a book and post on social media,but it's more than just that,
I'm sure.
Ben Cena (20:12):
Absolutely. Absolutely. Depending on a
person, depending on asituation, the phenomenon in the
books is that I always say topeople, and that happens almost
every single time, the book andthe message of a book is almost
always more powerful than aperson who wrote or who is the
author. People care more aboutyour problems and the solutions
(20:35):
that you they're gonna get thanthe person who wrote the thing.
Right?
It even goes back to the olddays of me growing a self
publishing business. These wereno named authors, no named
people, and we create reallygreat books around that, and
people loved them even thoughthe author behind the books was
not the exact person who was onthe cover. Now understanding
(21:00):
this piece, and now you'resaying, okay, here is your name
here, and now here is a problemthat you're solving. Now then,
once the book is out there, yourealize that social media and
your presence can help only thevery partial things, the initial
boost a little bit. Right?
(21:22):
But if you really want a lastingsuccess, the biggest platforms
on in the world, Amazon, noquestion about it, it owns more
of a 65% of the total market inthe Western world. Right? I'm
not counting China here. But inthe Western world, it's more
than 65% of combined ebook andpaperback and hardback sales,
(21:43):
and even Audible now is over65%. The platform rewards
problem solving books, and thealgorithms reward those kind of
books that there is a market forand you are addressing that.
So your social media presencewill give that initial boost,
(22:06):
which is gonna tell a platformlike Amazon that you are serious
about this. After that, it's notgonna do much. So the real
marketing starts at the verybeginning. And one of the
biggest tools, which most peoplenot use, is Amazon Ads. The
native system of Amazon, whichAmazon really loves and people
(22:29):
are using it, which really helpsto take your book to lasting
success.
Now I know what most people aregoing to think. Well, maybe I
don't have the money to invest.The goal is not to make money
with Amazon ads. The goal is tobuild traction and not lose any
money, to create the traction ofthe book for your problem
(22:55):
solving book for many years tocome. And we found that as one
of the most powerful tools thatcan create that success.
And that's what it is.
Adam Larson (23:04):
Yeah, I know there's people who, you know,
who may love the idea ofbecoming a thought leader, even
writing a book, but they'remight be hesitant about sharing
their expertise because itcauses them to become more
visible, You know, and what'smaybe we can weigh the pros and
cons and kind of talk throughthat. And, you know, maybe
there's questions people shouldask themselves and, hey, should
they take that next step? Maybeyou shouldn't.
Ben Cena (23:26):
Yeah. No. And I'm I'm drawing this as you're asking
the question because there is,like, two questions that people
have to ask. Mhmm. And usually,two two reasons why people are
hesitant.
On one side, the truth has to betold. Most people who are
hesitating to do that, they donot have, or they don't think
(23:51):
they have the competence, inturn the confidence to put their
material out there to be judged.People with competence and a
combination of confidence akatheir expertise, they usually
don't have that problem. Sothat's on the one side. People
(24:11):
really have to ask themselves,is it an inner confidence issue
or is it a real competenceissue?
Meaning you are not there yet interms of what you want to share.
And I really usually help peopleto answer that question because
this is really usually that's aninner confidence problem. Right?
(24:31):
It's really difficult toovercome. It has nothing to do
with a book.
It has more to do with I'm notthere yet. On the other side,
people who have the confidencein their own expertise, the
procrastination comes in wherethey're thinking, I want to make
(24:52):
sure this is done right and verywell. So they're either looking
and looking and looking for theright person to write it with.
Right? Or which usually happenslike that and life happens.
They keep hesitating becausethey are not sure how to put it
together, how to package thatexpertise. Should I do it
(25:16):
myself? Should I do it withsomebody else? I am a very much
expert in this. Nobody is goingto write it better than me.
Right? That kind of game startsplaying in their heads. Right?
The answer to that is usuallyyou have to talk with somebody
who is an expert in their spaceand can give you an honest
(25:39):
answer by saying, here is what Ibelieve you need to do. Right?
Just like I told you in thebeginning, if you are at least a
amateur writer, you can writeyour own book and if you have
time. In most cases, youshouldn't. You shouldn't. Even
you are the best and mostpowerful expert in your field,
you're not the expert in puttingthose ideas in a long form book.
(26:02):
You are not.
And you will probably never be.Right? So you have to talk to
somebody that you can respectand start working on that.
Adam Larson (26:11):
So how would somebody find that somebody that
they respect to work with? Let'ssay, you know, hey, I do a
little bit of writing inside. Iwant to write a book, but I know
that I can't do this all myself.
Ben Cena (26:21):
No, you have to talk to people. You have to talk to
people. Many times people cometo us after numerous
conversations, right? And again,it goes back to the same thing.
What goals are you trying toachieve?
It's not just about a book. It'snot just about having a person
to put the ideas in a full, veryflowing way. It's not just about
(26:42):
the writing. You really have tocreate this match of, okay, you
understand what I need to doeven better than I do, meaning
AKA the expert, right? Okay, nowwe probably have an alignment,
which in our organization, whatwe really seek to accomplish is
that, okay, we really know whatyou want to happen here.
(27:03):
Let's see if we can make ithappen. And many times, many
times, because we learn from ourmistakes in the past, we were
working with people that weprobably shouldn't be working
with just because there was notthe right amount of clarity in
terms of what we want toachieve. And that kind of
(27:23):
clarity is needed. So you haveto talk to people. You have to
really talk to at least a fewpeople, right, and say, okay,
this is the person that I wantto work with.
And I can trust them. I can seesome examples of their work. I
can see this. I can see that.Okay, now we can start building
that relationship, start workingon a project like this.
Adam Larson (27:45):
Yeah, there's a certain amount of vulnerability,
it seems, that's needed in orderto be ready to write. Am I
correct in that understanding?
Ben Cena (27:55):
Well, again, you know, Adam, you you asked you asked
the the question. You structuredthe question ready to write. Now
it's not about ready to writeonly. It's more about ready to
put your name out there with abook. Are you ready to put your
expertise or what people aregoing to perceive as your best
(28:16):
piece?
That's what people are thinking.If you're gonna put the book out
there and people are gonna readit, I want to make sure this is
the best representation of me.Right? And that's where people
are very struggling about in thebeginning, beyond everything
else. Now are you ready forthat?
Usually there has to somepsychology work has to happen
(28:37):
here. It's like, okay, are youready to it's like I used to be,
like I told you, personaltrainer in my past life. Are you
ready to make a change? I washearing back in the day for some
people, they're like, well, Iweigh over forty pounds over
what I probably should weigh,but that's me. That's kind of
(28:59):
me.
I don't know if I want to lose40 pounds. And that's the same
here. Are you ready to put yourstuff out there? You really have
to work it out. You really haveto talk to some sort of an
expertpsychology involved personin this field to say, okay.
(29:19):
You are ready. And most peopleare ready. Most people are
ready. We just have to, again,know the reasons why we're doing
that. And if you can justify thereasons, don't just go you go
after it.
No. Reasons. Reasons. That's allit is.
Adam Larson (29:33):
Well, Ben, I just want to thank you so much for
coming on the podcast, sharingyour expertise with us about
becoming an author. I justreally hope everybody got as
much as I did from it. I justthank you for coming on.
Ben Cena (29:43):
Of course, Adam. My pleasure. My pleasure.
Announcer (29:48):
This has been Count Me In, IMA's podcast, providing
you with the latest perspectivesof thought leaders from the
accounting and financeprofession. If you like what you
heard and you'd like to becounted in for more relevant
accounting and financeeducation, visit IMA's website
at www.imanet.org.
Welcome to Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larson.
And today, I'm chatting with BenCena, cofounder and High Value
Author. Ben's not your typicalpublishing expert. He started
out hating books and ended upbuilding and selling a
successful publishing business.
In this episode, Ben shares whynon fiction books can be
powerful tools for personalbranding and business growth and
what separates few successfulauthors from many who struggle.
(00:43):
If you've ever wondered how toturn your expertise into high
value book or what it reallytakes to become a recognized
thought leader, you won't wantto miss Ben's practical advice
and insider insights. Let's getstarted. Well, Ben, I just want
to thank you for coming on thepodcast. Excited to talk to you,
(01:04):
to talk to you about folksbecoming thought leaders and
authors.
And I wanted to get started justby asking what kind of inspired
you to start helpingprofessionals become thought
leaders? And maybe you couldtell a little bit about your
story.
Ben Cena (01:16):
Sure. You know, well, first of all, I hate books. I
hate I hated books, not hatebooks. I hated books when I was
in in school and college, youknow. And I think no.
It probably was by accident. Youknow? I was a personal trainer
in my past life. I was you know,I'm still as passionate about
(01:37):
health as I was. Maybe I'm gonnado that in another ten years.
But now my colleague in the gymI was working, he was involved
in publishing space. So he saidhe's doing this, you know, and
it kinda like made me curious.So we we developed a couple of
(01:59):
publishing businesses. We soldthem for 6 figure sums, you
know, back in 2018, '19, whichis what really was self
published, everything. You know?
So I think this was the start,and we really saw the trend on
Amazon and how the books and howdifferent solutions you know? We
(02:22):
just really discovered thatbecause I always thought that
books are, you know, the fictionstuff, you know, the boring
stuff nobody likes to read. Thisis what I what we were told in
school, in college, and allthese kind of things. Later on,
I figured out that books areproblem solving tools, and
that's what really hooked me in.And then later, after selling
(02:46):
those couple of businesses onAmazon, we figured that people
are really struggling withunderstanding what is the
purpose of a book.
The experts, authority, allthese kind of things and the
alignment and how people arehaving completely different
conversations with clients,investors, yada yada. If you
(03:10):
know how to use a book and youknow how to create this
masterpiece of a tool. So Ithink really understanding that,
probably what happened aboutfive years ago in 2019, '20 '20,
that's where the real shifthappened. We realized there are
so much untapped potential forso many experts out there.
(03:32):
Listen, there are 65 plusmillion books on Amazon, Barnes
and Noble.
Less than a hundred thousandbooks sell more than one copy a
day. Less than a hundredthousand books. Most books die
after all the uncles and auntsbuy them, right, in the first
(03:53):
two weeks after the launch.Right? And then nobody cares.
And I think this is where itreally started with, okay. No,
if you're really solvingproblems with those books, they
should last year, not just, youknow, some nice little project
which never came to fruition.That was my long winded answer.
Adam Larson (04:14):
Yeah. No, no, no. It's interesting hearing you say
that, especially about thenumbers when it comes to books,
how, you know, most of them justkind of, you know, all the aunts
and uncles buy them, you know, alittle hoopla and then it just
goes to die. You know, knowingall that, why would somebody
say, Hey, I want to now becomean author? This is like a non
(04:35):
fiction book for business.
Like, why would somebody want tobecome an author knowing that
this is like the market forbooks right now?
Ben Cena (04:41):
Well, it really depends what we really seen most
for the most part for the mainreason, right, which really
people don't really share. Theydon't really say that reason off
the bat, but they're saying,okay, want to spread the
message. Now after a deeperconversation, we really figure
that there are kinda like twomain reasons. Like I said, one
(05:03):
is there were really two mainreasons. First, they want to
take their personal brand andtheir name to a different level.
Now what does that mean? In mostcases, that means I am in that
world. And silly enough, thatmeans I am smart. I am in a book
(05:26):
world. I am smart.
This is no. I'll give you somemore numbers that might make you
think. Year over year I I willnot give you the exact number
here, but physical book salesand ebook sales are growing
every single year withoutexception since probably
(05:47):
02/2005. The readership of thosebooks are declining on average
about 7% every year from a totalreadership percentage. What does
that mean?
People are buying books, notreally reading books, but they
want to shelf them, show them inthe background, on Zoom, you
(06:10):
know, all these kind of things.Now why people want to become
authors is to be one of those,you know, in that shelf, to be
perceived as the smart people,as people of intellect in that
space. Right? That's the firstone. And the second one, after a
(06:33):
bit more thinking, they realizethat that is a great way to
create conversations, createhigh ticket lead generation in
current terms, and really bringin money, bring in real now
(06:54):
talking to investors, talking topotential clients about big
projects.
If you know how to use a bookfor that and the positioning is
right, it happens a lot if youknow what you're doing.
Adam Larson (07:08):
Yeah. Now, are there any success stories that
you can share of people you'veworked with? Obviously, you
don't have to mention any names,but are there any stories of
folks who gave this a shot andworked with you and were able to
see great success in growingtheir business with it?
Ben Cena (07:21):
Yeah, sure. So one of the people that we worked with
and still working with, he'slived in Dubai and really
tracked data on that, where wemanaged to scale. He's in
education business, onlineeducation. He's selling
products, building relationshipswith people. And he really we
really managed to use this toolto educate people on what he's
(07:45):
doing and move people to hisprogram, which is between 5,000
and $9,000 for the most part.
Right? And I think I'll not giveyou the exact number, but it's
between 2,000 and $3,000 whichhe collected in a span of about
eight months after the launch ofa book directly from a book,
(08:06):
which we managed to count fromthe pathway that was created,
not even counting people whoread it and then came back
later, these kinds of things. Soit was probably more of a
specific kind of vague storywhere it really works and it's
really more measurable. Theother thing we also did with one
(08:26):
of our clients is after thelaunch, we were scheduled for a
conference where we wanted toposition a book, and I think
there was 100 seats, Right? Andwe decided to gift every person,
every manager, which was formanagers.
He's in a space of talentacquisition in corporate
environment. So for him, it'smore about opening conversations
(08:51):
with building relationships.Right? And what we did, we
decided to go after thestrategy, like a more physical
strategy, and planned hundredbooks for those hundred people
and create a presentation in away to use that book as a
leverage so when people can booka call with, that person during
(09:13):
a conference for every singleperson who have a book. And I
think we had like 50 callsbooked from those hundred
people.
Right? So I think this is more amore juicy, to the point
examples of if you know how touse it right and you're really
going after it, you can reallyno. One conversation changes
everything. One conversation cangive you a return on the
(09:36):
investment or time spent on aproject like this. Of course,
most people don't do it.
It takes either work or workingwith some team who knows what
they are doing, but, you know,you you you have to know why
you're doing this. What do youwant this book to do? This is
one of the main questions I askon the on the initial call that
(09:56):
I have with people. What whatwhat are you trying to achieve
with with your book? Andusually, we we don't really have
a strong reason.
And I'm really pleased to talkto some people sometimes where
they say, okay. The reason why Iwant this book is because I want
to build my personal brand, andI want to create a bridge and
(10:17):
create this networkingopportunity with this kind of
clients. I love that answer.That this means this person
knows knows what he's talkingabout. And usually, these are
higher level people who reallyunderstand that kind of
language, that kind ofpossibility.
Right? So for anybody listening,you know, you really have to
look at the book not as apassion project because for the
(10:40):
most part, it is not. Somepeople say it. There is a reason
why only why why 97% of peoplenever 97% of people who start
the first chapter never finishis because they don't have a
reason why we started. And theyhave when they have financial
obligations every single day, nomatter if they're in business,
(11:01):
if they're in corporateenvironment, you are gonna go
after whatever else you have todo opposed to your passion
project.
That happens every single time.That's why people never finish
unless you have a clear visionon what you want to accomplish
with this particular book andwhat you want this book to do
for you, for your personalbrand. And usually it has to be
(11:23):
finance related. Otherwise, it'smore difficult to justify it.
Adam Larson (11:27):
Yeah. So let's say somebody's listening to our
conversation. They're like, I'mreally curious about this. You
know, I want to be seen as athought leader. Maybe I could
write a book.
You know, what are those firststeps they should take if they
want to start moving in thatdirection?
Ben Cena (11:40):
It's interesting question that you ask, and I
like how you phrase it, thisquestion. The question is, do
you want to write a book or doyou want to publish a book?
That's the distinction. Mostpeople cannot write a book
unless you at least you're an ifyou're an amateur writer, then I
might suggest. But I wouldassume that most people
(12:00):
listening to this, they're busy.
They have things going on.They're entrepreneurs. They're
high level managers working incorporate environment. Right? So
you really have to, almost byexception, partner up with
somebody who understands theprocess and can say, okay, if
(12:22):
you want to accomplish this,this is a pathway.
If you want to accomplish that,this is a pathway. Right? You
really have to know those kindsof things. And it's really
difficult to just have a chatthe GBT chat with somebody,
right, you know, say, well, Iknow what I'm doing. I'm gonna
do this.
(12:42):
You know? And it it never comesthrough. So you really have to
consult with somebody. But nowwhat are the first steps? First
of all, you have to I'm gonna goback, but you have to know why
you're doing this.
Now once you know the reasonswhy you're doing this, the first
step is to create an idea.Right? How that idea ties up to
(13:04):
your goals. The idea is usuallythe main title of a book, and
that's the connection betweenthe title and the cover. It's a
magic combination, the magicduo, which I always describe.
And this is all also part of thereason why whenever somebody
works with us, we always captureat least some part of the book
(13:25):
cover in the very beginning. Notat the end. Most people do it in
the end. Okay. I have my bookfinished, and now I'm gonna do
the cover.
You want to see how it lookslike. You want to know what kind
of words are you using to grabyour reader and grab your ideal
customer potentially. So thenyou can say, okay. Here is my
(13:49):
idea, and here is how it matcheswith my goals. So this is where
the whole journey starts.
Not writing, not, you know, noteven the outline, but the title
and the cover. That's where itstarts.
Adam Larson (14:06):
Yeah. So as they're going through that process, you
know, let's say they're
Ben Cena (14:10):
It cannot happen the shower. It cannot happen in the
shower, though. It cannot happenin the shower? It cannot happen
in the shower. The shower ideausually doesn't work.
Adam Larson (14:19):
Yeah. But maybe a shower idea can be molded into
something that's really goodover time, of course.
Ben Cena (14:25):
Of course. Of course, it can. But it has to be
justified with what is out thereand what with their research. It
has to be justified.
Adam Larson (14:33):
Yeah.
Ben Cena (14:33):
It can be born in the shower, but it cannot be
structured in the shower. Let'sput it this way.
Adam Larson (14:38):
Yes, of course. So are there are there common
challenges or things to look outfor as somebody is kind of
walking down this path? Youknow, they've got the idea,
they've started the process. Arethere challenges that they're
going to face that they should,you know, be aware of that they
should, you know, because it'sobviously not a walk in the
park. You're not just going tosay, oh, I'm writing a book.
And then two days later you haveit all written.
Ben Cena (14:58):
Expectation. Have clear expectations of what is
going to happen, right? One ofthe other questions that I ask
always before we work withanybody is how much time are you
willing to commit to this? Andnot just willing, I would phrase
it differently. How much timecan you conservatively or you
(15:23):
would want to conservativelyallocate for this kind of
project?
And I don't want to give an houramount to anybody. I want them
to think. And usually, some mostpeople say, well, I can do ten
hours a week. Or some peoplesay, well, I can do eight hours
four hours a day. And that'susually just nonsense.
(15:45):
Right? Now you you really haveto know and set up the
expectations right. Now the theright answer usually lands
between five and fifteen hours.Again, really depending closer
to fifteen if you, for somereason, for some crazy reason,
you decide to write everythingyourself. Now that's that's
(16:06):
gonna get closer to fifteen.
If you're working with some teamwho know what what we are doing,
that's going to be much closerto five or sometimes even lower
if you know your customer verywell. If you know the kind of
message and the structure of amessage and what you really want
to share very well. The more youknow that the less time you
(16:27):
need, the less communication hasto happen between the
professionals and you as I callit like a raw material. The
author is usually the rawmaterial because the uniqueness
is attached to the person. Theperson has to provide that raw
material to create thismasterpiece.
So setting up the rightexpectations and knowing, okay,
(16:49):
it's going to be a five monthprocess, six month process. And
on average, you're gonna have toallocate this amount of time on
average. I'm not saying everysingle week. No. Things happen.
We're in business. All allthings happen. But not having
the right expectations andsaying, well, I'm gonna do this
with this amount of hours. I'mgonna do this and this and this.
And the second week, oh, I haveto travel there.
(17:12):
I have to go there. I have tomeet these people, and then
everything falls apart. Thatdoesn't happen. That's the
biggest mistake people make.
Adam Larson (17:20):
Yeah. I want to circle back to something you
mentioned about the topic, howimportant it is to understand
the topic to the fullest extent.And, you know, what does it look
like from, you know, from anauthor's perspective? You know,
obviously, if you're gettinghelp, that's helpful. But you
know, if you're trying to be athought leader, there's a
certain amount of research andunderstanding of the whole the
topic as a whole to be able toexplain it in a way that you can
(17:40):
write it down as an author.
Ben Cena (17:42):
Yeah, that's a good, very good question. Now, there's
a two way answer to this. Firstof all, the question the
question back to to that personwho is thinking about that is on
how well do you know that personyou're writing this book for?
Because it always comes back towhat are you trying to achieve
(18:02):
and for who. And the reverseengineering from that is much
easier than just saying, this isthe idea or this is that idea.
Right? It doesn't work likethat. You have to really think
about serving a particularperson and saying, okay, what
would capture that person? Howwould that person understand it?
(18:24):
And then align that with yourstyle.
The alignment then happens tohave, here's the kind of
personality you have. Now,second important part of this
is, the question is where you'regoing for the next two, three,
four, five years. Are you tryingto change something in your
business? Are you planning tochange the career? Or are you
(18:49):
staying in the same business?
Are you gonna up your skills?Are you gonna change your if you
know that answer, and I havenumerous conversations with
people all the time, right? Ifyour plan is to go after this
market in these many years andyour customer, for example,
changes, well, it's gonna bedifferent. The idea is gonna be
(19:10):
different because you are gonnabe talking to maybe a different
kind of person. So it's more youhave to answer how well you know
the customer and reverseengineer from that, Plus, you
have to know where you're going.
What is your plan for a for aforeseeable future? Because then
you asked me about the mistakespeople make. If you can't really
(19:32):
align the future with the book,the motivation is gonna be
drained. You got you got you'renot gonna be constantly inspired
unless you can consistently seethe connection between where
you're going and what you'redoing. And the book is the big
part of what you're doing.
(19:53):
So that's the answer. Well,
Adam Larson (19:55):
that makes sense. So let's talk about what happens
after the book's written. Youknow, what role does things like
social media online presencekind of play in promotions and
just making sure that youbecause obviously you can write
a book and post on social media,but it's more than just that,
I'm sure.
Ben Cena (20:12):
Absolutely. Absolutely. Depending on a
person, depending on asituation, the phenomenon in the
books is that I always say topeople, and that happens almost
every single time, the book andthe message of a book is almost
always more powerful than aperson who wrote or who is the
author. People care more aboutyour problems and the solutions
(20:35):
that you they're gonna get thanthe person who wrote the thing.
Right?
It even goes back to the olddays of me growing a self
publishing business. These wereno named authors, no named
people, and we create reallygreat books around that, and
people loved them even thoughthe author behind the books was
not the exact person who was onthe cover. Now understanding
(21:00):
this piece, and now you'resaying, okay, here is your name
here, and now here is a problemthat you're solving. Now then,
once the book is out there, yourealize that social media and
your presence can help only thevery partial things, the initial
boost a little bit. Right?
(21:22):
But if you really want a lastingsuccess, the biggest platforms
on in the world, Amazon, noquestion about it, it owns more
of a 65% of the total market inthe Western world. Right? I'm
not counting China here. But inthe Western world, it's more
than 65% of combined ebook andpaperback and hardback sales,
(21:43):
and even Audible now is over65%. The platform rewards
problem solving books, and thealgorithms reward those kind of
books that there is a market forand you are addressing that.
So your social media presencewill give that initial boost,
(22:06):
which is gonna tell a platformlike Amazon that you are serious
about this. After that, it's notgonna do much. So the real
marketing starts at the verybeginning. And one of the
biggest tools, which most peoplenot use, is Amazon Ads. The
native system of Amazon, whichAmazon really loves and people
(22:29):
are using it, which really helpsto take your book to lasting
success.
Now I know what most people aregoing to think. Well, maybe I
don't have the money to invest.The goal is not to make money
with Amazon ads. The goal is tobuild traction and not lose any
money, to create the traction ofthe book for your problem
(22:55):
solving book for many years tocome. And we found that as one
of the most powerful tools thatcan create that success.
And that's what it is.
Adam Larson (23:04):
Yeah, I know there's people who, you know,
who may love the idea ofbecoming a thought leader, even
writing a book, but they'remight be hesitant about sharing
their expertise because itcauses them to become more
visible, You know, and what'smaybe we can weigh the pros and
cons and kind of talk throughthat. And, you know, maybe
there's questions people shouldask themselves and, hey, should
they take that next step? Maybeyou shouldn't.
Ben Cena (23:26):
Yeah. No. And I'm I'm drawing this as you're asking
the question because there is,like, two questions that people
have to ask. Mhmm. And usually,two two reasons why people are
hesitant.
On one side, the truth has to betold. Most people who are
hesitating to do that, they donot have, or they don't think
(23:51):
they have the competence, inturn the confidence to put their
material out there to be judged.People with competence and a
combination of confidence akatheir expertise, they usually
don't have that problem. Sothat's on the one side. People
(24:11):
really have to ask themselves,is it an inner confidence issue
or is it a real competenceissue?
Meaning you are not there yet interms of what you want to share.
And I really usually help peopleto answer that question because
this is really usually that's aninner confidence problem. Right?
(24:31):
It's really difficult toovercome. It has nothing to do
with a book.
It has more to do with I'm notthere yet. On the other side,
people who have the confidencein their own expertise, the
procrastination comes in wherethey're thinking, I want to make
(24:52):
sure this is done right and verywell. So they're either looking
and looking and looking for theright person to write it with.
Right? Or which usually happenslike that and life happens.
They keep hesitating becausethey are not sure how to put it
together, how to package thatexpertise. Should I do it
(25:16):
myself? Should I do it withsomebody else? I am a very much
expert in this. Nobody is goingto write it better than me.
Right? That kind of game startsplaying in their heads. Right?
The answer to that is usuallyyou have to talk with somebody
who is an expert in their spaceand can give you an honest
(25:39):
answer by saying, here is what Ibelieve you need to do. Right?
Just like I told you in thebeginning, if you are at least a
amateur writer, you can writeyour own book and if you have
time. In most cases, youshouldn't. You shouldn't. Even
you are the best and mostpowerful expert in your field,
you're not the expert in puttingthose ideas in a long form book.
(26:02):
You are not.
And you will probably never be.Right? So you have to talk to
somebody that you can respectand start working on that.
Adam Larson (26:11):
So how would somebody find that somebody that
they respect to work with? Let'ssay, you know, hey, I do a
little bit of writing inside. Iwant to write a book, but I know
that I can't do this all myself.
Ben Cena (26:21):
No, you have to talk to people. You have to talk to
people. Many times people cometo us after numerous
conversations, right? And again,it goes back to the same thing.
What goals are you trying toachieve?
It's not just about a book. It'snot just about having a person
to put the ideas in a full, veryflowing way. It's not just about
(26:42):
the writing. You really have tocreate this match of, okay, you
understand what I need to doeven better than I do, meaning
AKA the expert, right? Okay, nowwe probably have an alignment,
which in our organization, whatwe really seek to accomplish is
that, okay, we really know whatyou want to happen here.
(27:03):
Let's see if we can make ithappen. And many times, many
times, because we learn from ourmistakes in the past, we were
working with people that weprobably shouldn't be working
with just because there was notthe right amount of clarity in
terms of what we want toachieve. And that kind of
(27:23):
clarity is needed. So you haveto talk to people. You have to
really talk to at least a fewpeople, right, and say, okay,
this is the person that I wantto work with.
And I can trust them. I can seesome examples of their work. I
can see this. I can see that.Okay, now we can start building
that relationship, start workingon a project like this.
Adam Larson (27:45):
Yeah, there's a certain amount of vulnerability,
it seems, that's needed in orderto be ready to write. Am I
correct in that understanding?
Ben Cena (27:55):
Well, again, you know, Adam, you you asked you asked
the the question. You structuredthe question ready to write. Now
it's not about ready to writeonly. It's more about ready to
put your name out there with abook. Are you ready to put your
expertise or what people aregoing to perceive as your best
(28:16):
piece?
That's what people are thinking.If you're gonna put the book out
there and people are gonna readit, I want to make sure this is
the best representation of me.Right? And that's where people
are very struggling about in thebeginning, beyond everything
else. Now are you ready forthat?
Usually there has to somepsychology work has to happen
(28:37):
here. It's like, okay, are youready to it's like I used to be,
like I told you, personaltrainer in my past life. Are you
ready to make a change? I washearing back in the day for some
people, they're like, well, Iweigh over forty pounds over
what I probably should weigh,but that's me. That's kind of
(28:59):
me.
I don't know if I want to lose40 pounds. And that's the same
here. Are you ready to put yourstuff out there? You really have
to work it out. You really haveto talk to some sort of an
expertpsychology involved personin this field to say, okay.
(29:19):
You are ready. And most peopleare ready. Most people are
ready. We just have to, again,know the reasons why we're doing
that. And if you can justify thereasons, don't just go you go
after it.
No. Reasons. Reasons. That's allit is.
Adam Larson (29:33):
Well, Ben, I just want to thank you so much for
coming on the podcast, sharingyour expertise with us about
becoming an author. I justreally hope everybody got as
much as I did from it. I justthank you for coming on.
Ben Cena (29:43):
Of course, Adam. My pleasure. My pleasure.
Announcer (29:48):
This has been Count Me In, IMA's podcast, providing
you with the latest perspectivesof thought leaders from the
accounting and financeprofession. If you like what you
heard and you'd like to becounted in for more relevant
accounting and financeeducation, visit IMA's website
at www.imanet.org.
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