June 9, 2025 • 26 mins
Curious about how HR and finance teams can work together to drive real change in the workplace? In this episode of Count Me In, host Adam Larson sits down with Vrinda Sasidhar, Vice President - HR Consulting at HSBC and a seasoned HR leader with 15 years of experience across banking, tech, and process outsourcing. Vrinda shares what she’s learned about building bridges between people and numbers—from using psychology to engage employees, to staying ahead in a world where AI handles the grunt work.
Tune in for Vrinda’s practical tips on staying curious, continuously growing your skills, and navigating the challenges of today’s rapidly evolving finance landscape. If you’re interested in how modern HR and finance teams can collaborate for success—and you want advice that’s as real as it is actionable—this candid conversation is worth a listen.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Adam Larson (00:21):
Welcome to another episode of Count Me In. I'm your
host, Adam Larson, and today I'mthrilled to be joined by Vrinda
Sasidhar, vice president of HRconsulting at HSBC. Vrinda
brings over fifteen years ofexperience in HR across banking,
tech, and process outsourcingsectors, and she's here to share
her unique perspective on how HRand finance teams are working
more closely together than everbefore. In our conversation, we
(00:44):
explore how Vrinda's backgroundin psychology influences her
approach to HR, how thepartnership between HR and
finance has evolved, and whatskill sets are becoming
essential for young financeprofessionals as technology
continues to transform theindustry. Whether you're
interested in how organizationsare adapting to rapid change or
looking for practical strategiesto stay ahead, you want to tune
in for Renda's insights oncontinuous learning and our
(01:05):
thoughts on building resilientcollaborative teams for the
future.
Well, Vrinda, I'm so excited tohave you on the podcast today.
And today we're going to betalking about intersection of H.
R. And finance. You know, andyou have a lot of experience
with HR.
And have you seen theintersection of HR and finance
(01:27):
kind of evolve over the years,especially in the experience
that you've had?
Vrinda Sadidhar (01:30):
So let me just give you a little bit of
background of where what I havedone to then tell you, you know,
what I have probably experiencedin these fifteen years actually
of being in HR. So a large partof my experience within HR has
been in learning in DEI, inemployee engagement. And this
experience has been acrossbanking, across tech, across
(01:53):
what we call process outsourcingsectors, right? And each sector
has had, of course, uniqueproblems and of course, unique,
interesting things to solve for.So currently I work with a
leading bank and I've been withthe bank for eight years across
four roles.
And a large part has been indeveloping people and culture
(02:14):
and for teams in finance whereour conversation is really
largely going to be around. Mylatest role of course has been
in HR consulting which is alittle broader than finance. So
and the reason I speak aboutthis journey that I've had is
because it's been quiteinteresting for me to see how my
(02:35):
role has evolved in HR as well.So I mean, one of the things
I've seen that's happenedthrough these years is that one
is that HR has definitely becomemore strategic. I can see that
business calls us more on thetable.
There's a lot of work togetherthat we do, especially in pieces
(02:57):
when it comes to one optimizingresources, right? So it could be
not just people. I think peopleusually, you know, you think of
HR and you think of peopleresources, but our work now
becomes a little moreproductive. Are involved in
people and money and data andtech because a lot of HR
policies are really geared intosome of these conversations as
(03:18):
well. So I think that's whereour strategic partnership really
comes in.
I think the second, I would say,piece that we have been really
working on is while we talkabout talent strategies, now
there's an increased alignmentto what we call people
priorities that business setsout to have, right? So that is
(03:40):
your workforce planning, yourrecruitment, your performance
management, your successionplanning, all of that. And like
I said, did we do that before?Sure. But there's obviously
increased alignment with thebusiness as well.
And finally, I'm sure we allknow we keep talking about
changes. We keep talking aboutfuture of finance. I say now
it's no more future of financethan now of finance. Right. So
(04:02):
adapting to those marketchanges, changes in industry.
So I think HR really needs tofocus on not only helping your
organization, but now the wholeconversation on protecting
individuals and individualwell-being as well has become a
lot more important than probablythe previous years when I, when
I got started. So I thinkthat's, that's a good way of
saying these are three thingsI've seen over my journey in
(04:23):
nature.
Adam Larson (04:25):
Well, and when you and I first spoke, you mentioned
you had a little bit of abackground in psychology. How do
you think your understanding oflike things like human behavior
have kind of influenced yourapproach with HR, specifically
in the context of working withdifferent teams? Because you say
that your role is evolving,especially in how you work with
people. But we have tounderstand how people work, too.
Vrinda Sadidhar (04:46):
Right. You know, Adam, it's just not
finance. I think psychology hasjust had an impact generally on
my views and perspective. Right.And it's a good result in the
work that I do.
And I think you've said itright. It is about human
behavior. It is aboutunderstanding what are we
delivering and for who we aredelivering. For me, I think HR,
(05:07):
I mean, it's a gift to be in HR.One of the key roles that we
have is to be that communicationchannel between employees and
leadership.
So, we able to convey, I wouldsay, important decisions to the
wider audience? I'll be able toshare insights that we receive
from the masses to leadershipand it is another gift as HR. I
(05:29):
know that so many people whocome up to me, not just in
formal set ups, even in thoseinformal setups. So I think
psychology helps intransitioning and translating
these insights that we get wehear from both ends into
something that's actionable andof course using human principles
will help us to then convert itinto something meaningful for
(05:49):
our people and which of coursemakes sense for the
organization. That's one.
Of course a lot of focus, a lotof work that we do is around
employee engagement andmotivation. Understanding what
drives employees. Every countryis different, majority of an
organisation is different, thereare changes that are happening
rapidly, and everything has animpact on this. So HR needs to
(06:12):
be almost able to detect thatpulse, I would say, and know
what the employees need now,instead of always thinking, you
know, this is what they require,because everything is different.
So if the organisation isextremely volatile, then you
need to start thinking about,say, psychological safety,
because that's the need for now.
Know, resourcing is an issue andthe organization is getting
(06:36):
their folks to have long hoursin, then how do you acknowledge,
how do you reward immediately sothat people feel like
contributing to that currentenvironment, if I can say so.
And I think psychology and I'msure you agree as well provides
those tools for managing changewithin an organisation. There
are so many psychological, Iwould say, principles that also
(06:59):
guide effective communication tomitigate resistance, to mitigate
any kind of issues that comefrom change and to foster that
culture and that climate withinthe organisation. We talk about
data driven decision making andI'm sure we're going to be
talking a lot about it in thecontext of finance. Now it's
important to convert thesedecisions as well to something
(07:20):
that we understand as anorganization.
So what do we do with that data?And I can go on and on and on.
Like I said, it's not only mywork, I think, in
neuropsychology, it justimpacted the way and perspective
of how I look, look ateverything.
Adam Larson (07:37):
So as we, you know, as we look at the ever evolving
role of, you know, the changinglandscape for finance, the
changing landscape for prettymuch any of the industry, any of
the groups within anorganization, you know, young
graduates are looking into enterthe field. You know, what are
your insights for young youngfolks coming into you know, the
finance team, you know, becauseit doesn't look the same it did
(08:00):
ten years ago, fifteen yearsago. They have a lot of
different challenges. They can'tjust, they're not going to come
in and do grunt work right away.A lot of the grunt work is taken
care of by AI nowadays.
So there's different skills thatthey're going to have to have.
What does that look like as yousee it when new folks are coming
into your organization?
Vrinda Sadidhar (08:17):
Absolutely right. Like I said, finance is
quickly evolving. I've been withthem for eight years and every
two years there's a shift. Ithink some of the things and I'm
talking from data, right? Someresearch, market research on
finance.
So currently finance leadersspend about 19% more of the
(08:38):
total finance bandwidth on valueadded activities. So, say
strategic planning, treasury,operational risk management,
policy setting. That's not thecase ten years ago, right? That
it was absolutely generatingthose reports on and on and on,
right? So that's a big change.
(09:01):
And after that, I think I readit a few months ago about saying
that a lack of skills in dataliteracy can cost a company as
much as 1% of the revenue.Right. So data is such a
valuable resource. Right. So nowwe can see 70% of finance
organizations are using datalineage enabling technologies.
(09:24):
So machine learning, I think,analytics, etc, and so on and so
forth. The reason I'm tellingyou all of this is that in
finance, we in India especially,where I'm coming from, you know,
look at it from quite a linearview saying that you know you do
your accountancy, you do yourknow your CA as we called in
(09:45):
India and you're good you haveyour basics in banking but that
has changed. Those rules are notgoing to exist. In fact, they
say by 2028, '50 percent oforganizations would have
replaced time consuming bottomup forecasting approaches with
like what you said AI, know,demand planning etc. So the call
(10:06):
for the hour for the younggrads, one is to be saying that,
yes, I've gone through thisformal education, but do I
understand what exists in themarket?
Do I understand the digitalfirst approach? What banks are
doing what? What does automationlook like from a practical view?
(10:28):
Because you can read a lot ofgreat articles out of those
magazines, but what is actuallyhappening on ground? What are
some of the skills that you canupdate yourself on?
Are you thinking about so whenyou think about data, the single
set, single use of data are youthinking about even the ethical
side of using that data? So doyou understand banking
(10:48):
regulations are, you know, upthere, right? So what are the
regulatory measures that ourfirms are pushing? So do you
know enough about that, right?We're talking about sustainable
finance.
If that's something of interestto you, what does that mean?
Have you read up on that? So Ithink one is understanding that
you might be a young grad that'spassed out today, but probably
(11:11):
in six months' time. I'm notgoing to say it's going to be
outdated. Think fundamentalsalways would remain the same.
But are you understanding thesechanges that's happening in the
industry? And that can only comefrom, of course, experience, but
it also means that you need tocontinuously develop yourself.
Someone told me that you need tolook at a resume and every six
(11:35):
months if you don't havesomething new to put in there,
that means you're late. Right?You're late in learning
something new, which is such aninteresting way of looking at
it.
So that's something I blurted.I'm like, okay, that's
interesting. Maybe I won't putit on my resume, but that's what
am I going to, you know, ifsomebody asks me, what have I
learned in this last six months?That's important.
Adam Larson (11:55):
That's a huge, that's a really good challenge
to say, Hey, in every sixmonths, have I, have I learned
something new or have I donesomething new to put on my
resume? I've never heard thatbefore. It's really got me
thinking and hopefully it's gotour audience thinking too.
Vrinda Sadidhar (12:09):
Yeah, that's a little frightening also.
Adam Larson (12:11):
It is a little frightening. You know, so
speaking of having our resumeupdate every six months, you
know, a good goal is every sixmonths. Are there any other
specific skills or qualitiesthat are essential for us for
success, especially, you know,in the finance team?
Vrinda Sadidhar (12:27):
Yeah. When I spoke, I think about them more
from a technical knowledgeperspective. Let's be honest,
success in finance also hingeson soft skills. It also hinges
on personal qualities. It alsohinges on those fungible skills
that you can bring in.
Now this is a long list, but I'mgoing to try and keep it to say
(12:48):
three, four of them quicklywhatever comes on top of my
head. I think one important oneis of course, strategic
thinking. Are you able toevaluate information? Are you
able to make informed judgments?Are you able to solve complex
problems?
And these are all essential foryour strategic planning and risk
assessment, Right? In the samevein, when you're thinking about
(13:10):
evaluating information, and thisis something that I said we will
be coming to when I started datadriven problem solving. Are you
able to identify issues? Are youable to analyze data? Are you
able to device effectivesolutions?
And let me tell you, mostlyunder pressure and it needs to
be quick turnaround, right? So,So are your skills heightened
(13:35):
where you can make these quickdecisions? Another one, I don't
know if it's just for finance tobe honest, but I think this is
across industries and whateverrole that you do, storytelling,
right? And specifically tofinance, I would add maybe data
storytelling. So are you able toconvey complex financial data
and concepts to financialexperts, maybe like yourself
(13:58):
Adam, and non experts like mefrom HR, right?
Are you able to break it downfor both of us? And I think the
last two important ones againprobably just not for finance
but I think for everybody wouldbe relationship management. Will
have to develop and maintainstrong working relationships
with clients, with colleagues.Finance is interlinked. You have
(14:20):
internal stakeholders, externalstakeholders, and how are you
able to kind of bring it alltogether.
But I think to be successful,the underlying of everything is
curiosity, continuousimprovement, right? Like what we
discussed. When an industry ischanging as frequently and as
quickly, it is important to keepthat light almost ignited within
(14:42):
yourselves. Are you curious ifsomebody talks about, you know,
what this is the coding that Idid, or this is a report of
automated. Do you ask what, howcan you show me?
Or do you like, oh, interestingand move on. Right. I think
that's the differentiator.
Adam Larson (14:57):
Yeah. Now, do you have any insights in how to stay
curious? Because with the everchanging elements within an
organization or within ourwithin our roles, it's hard to
always stay curious.
Vrinda Sadidhar (15:08):
Yeah, absolutely. I think one is these
are now very personal pieces,right? Because I'm in HR and
because I worked in finance, Ihave the quickness of
understanding some of theconcepts as a finance
professional? No, But I stillneed to know what my business
does, right? So I think few tipswould be one for me.
(15:30):
It's important to have thatalmost that circle of influence.
So do you have a mentor that youlook up to, right? Do you have
your, I would say, informalcoffee sessions where you're
talking about the work thatyou're doing? Right. And I feel
that spark sometimes mostlycomes from informal
conversations.
Someone talks about a reportthat's automated or someone
(15:52):
talks about this conversationwith leadership, Someone talks
about a meeting that happenedand that spark saying, oh,
that's interesting. Is thatsomething I can, you know, take
up as well? Tell me more aboutit, right? So, one is building
that, like I said, that circleof influence. So, it could be a
mentor, it could be a coach, itcould and what I love is also
(16:15):
the reverse mentoring, right?
Could be someone who's fresh offthe boat in your organization.
So it doesn't always have to besomeone senior. You see someone
who's fantastic with technologyand sit with them and ask them,
you know, can you give me thebasics of say coding Python? Or
if they worked on any kind oftechnology, right? Maybe they
know a lot more about AI or MLor they've read about it.
(16:39):
Just sitting and saying, okay,show me what can you do with it.
And another important piece ofcuriosity is that I feel you
don't need to have thesolutions. You need to just be
clear with your problems anddon't worry about having the
solution. I think it's so quickto fit problems into the
solution that we know. Right.
(17:00):
So sometimes it's just askingthis is be very clear, saying
this is my problem and thenreally tapping into the network.
Right. So I think curiosity isnot only about getting skills,
but also about saying who arethe people who can enable me to
move ahead. Right. So thesecond, I mean, I think quite
related to that networking.
How often do you network? Ifyou're in finance, if you're in
(17:23):
HR and you're a podcast likeyourself, right? Do you have
people that you will haveconversations on really helping
your game? Because the more youtalk to people, you can realize
what can you say, maybe you feellike, oh, that's not for me. And
of course there's the formalways of building continuous
improvement.
Every organization will haveyour learning programs, will
(17:45):
have platforms that are enabledfor you. Do you know all those
platforms? And mostly they arepaid for by the organization. If
not, I mean, is nothing morepowerful than Google. If you ask
Google or chat J.
D. P. T. What are the best,places I need to go and find out
about the topic, usually theanswers are right. So of course,
(18:06):
those are your formalmethodology.
But I think what sometimes worksis building, I would say, a
strong network of people who'sgoing to keep asking you
questions and challenging youand for you to also challenge. I
think that's something you needto do. And if you are not
networking within your businessor your topic of interest,
(18:29):
that's something maybe youshould think about how often do
you want to do it, etc.
Adam Larson (18:33):
No, I really appreciate that insight. You
know, sometimes when when thingsget really busy, you know, a lot
of organizations are tighteningtheir belts, it becomes really
difficult to take the time tohave those informal
conversations. It becomesdifficult to have those water
cooler conversations, which ifyou look at the studies, it's
important to have those. We needto have those informal things to
(18:55):
get ourselves outside of the boxthat we put ourselves in because
it can be very difficult as ifyou're going from task to task
to task, you never have time toactually innovate and think
outside of what you're whatyou're working on. So, you know,
as somebody who was in financeand has gone to HR, are there
any challenges or misconceptionsthat you can, you know, you can
kind of share that you'veencountered as you kind of been
(19:17):
able to bridge that gap?
Vrinda Sadidhar (19:18):
So just to correct, you have always been in
HR. I think the difference isthat, you know, I worked with
finance and now I was broader.The things the relationship
between HR and other businessunits are often like that
chicken and egg dilemma, right?Is interdependence, there's
complexity, and not always afriendship, as you say, right?
But we need each other, ofcourse.
(19:40):
So I would say some of thechallenges would be one is
siloed planning. The thing is weneed to be on that table of
decision making. Sometimes whathappens is because there are
disconnected planning processeswhere each function operates
independently, means it leads toincomplete data. That means
assumptions from our end, right?There'll be conflicting analysis
(20:03):
on how do we kind of proceedwith our people.
So siloed planning leads todifferent priorities. And the
problem is businesses oftenexcuse me, businesses often
incentivized with financialperformance, right? Like, are
you making money? But for HR, wefocus on talent management, on
well-being, etc. So potentiallysometimes these priorities do
(20:25):
not really go together.
So that's one. The other one isbecause of the widening skill
gap in the industry,particularly in areas like data
science and AI, it becomes verydifficult to then find talent
well versed in both finance andHR. So then the work we need to
do is we'll have to update ourpractices. We need to meet the
(20:49):
expectations of today's jobseekers. Another thing is
businesses are like, now thereare a hundred roles open, but we
might need to find that talentin the market.
So how do we kind of adapt that?And that's sometimes the gap. So
I think the point I was tryingto make was that the skills gap
is the big piece that we need towork on. And I think the third
(21:09):
one I would like to add is thatnow this is a challenge or a
misconception? I don't know.
But I think that the commercialacumen of understanding
business, I think a lot of us inHR need to be a lot more prude
in. And like I mentioned, right,we don't need to be experts, but
we definitely need to understandthe fundamentals of the business
(21:29):
that we are taking care of. Andsometimes it becomes almost a
challenge and business picks upon that. Right. And I feel
that's an important piecebetween trust and mistrust when
you're working with business.
So the minute they understandthat, you know, you've done your
research, you know, theirbusiness, you know, what their
people are working for and ableto, you know, share that. I
(21:53):
think there is that's already atrust that is built. So, I guess
I don't know if it's amisconception, but it's
definitely a challenge that weneed to work towards.
Adam Larson (22:02):
So, no, I appreciate that. So when you're
looking at as an HRprofessional, you know, you
already talked about some of thechallenges, misconceptions. Are
there ways that you caneffectively collaborate with,
you know, especially the financeteam to achieve the shared goals
and objectives that you know,we've been referring to?
Vrinda Sadidhar (22:18):
So I think it's literally the opposite of what I
just said, right? I think onething is early collaboration,
engage early, be proactive,foster cohesion, create viable
processes. If there are weeklymeetings, monthly meetings that
business is a part of, make surethat you're invited and you have
(22:38):
a piece for HR and people thatthey are interested to partake
in. Right. And you also listento what are their challenges as
well.
So I think early collaborationis one. Communication and data
sharing. Open communicationchannels. Single data sets.
Right?
I think this is very importantbecause sometimes even data
sets, HR uses and one businessuses sometimes don't match. So
(23:02):
how do you kind of make surethat there's that singular data?
And like I mentioned, just likeyour early collaboration, the
joint planning, Say that, okay,these are your financial plans
for the year, okay, how do wealign it to talent strategies?
So this also helps for businessto believe that it goes with the
business objectives, right? Soit's important that we come
(23:23):
together.
And of course, another big oneis shared digital tools. So,
know, certain business might buycertain tools, and we should
also look at how do we kind ofupdate ourselves. So make sure
that we have what I mentionedearlier similar data sets,
single unit. Are you creatingreports of one another? Are you
(23:44):
working on business resiliencetogether?
I think all of this togetherwill slowly almost tighten that
relationship. And at the end ofthe day, for someone sitting and
working, right, we are a jointup unit, right? Leadership,
business, HR, we are a joint upunit. They don't look at us as
separate. So what is the bestexperience that we can give that
(24:06):
person coming into theorganization?
That's what that should be thegoal when we come together.
Adam Larson (24:11):
A lot of times when I have these conversations, I
always like to ask, like to endthe conversation with, you know,
what are your hopes andexpectations as you look into
the future, especially, youknow, the intersection of HR and
finance and how, you know,there's so many things changing.
There's rapidly changingeconomy, volatile things in the
workplace. You know, it's hardto kind of keep track of things.
What are your hopes andexpectations as we move forward
(24:31):
into this unknown?
Vrinda Sadidhar (24:32):
Well, I can speak for like the work that I
do. For me, I think as arepresentative in HR, for me,
it's stronger strategicpartnership, making sure that we
have data driven insights,enhanced collaboration. What I'd
mentioned earlier today on focuson employee well-being when
there's volatility, when thereare changes, right? It's also
(24:57):
impacting the person in yourteam. So what are some of the
policies around that?
Are the people managers equippedto deal with this new
environment, this new ecosystemthat they probably were not used
to as people managers. So, weequipping our leadership with
those tools? With technologyintegration also comes a bit of
fear, right, about your role. Ikeep saying it is not your role
(25:21):
that's going away, right? It'sthe boring stuff that goes away.
It means there's somethinginteresting. Your job is
evolving and you need to be apart of that, right, to make
work a lot more interesting foryourself. And I think, of
course, I mean, the last part ison your market, your regulatory
adaptability, right? When thosechanges happen, are we
(25:42):
resilient? Are we quick?
And that's something I mean,these are some of the skills
that we all need to be having inour little kitty.
Adam Larson (25:49):
Well, Veranda, I thank you so much for taking
time out of your busy scheduleto join me on this podcast, and
I really appreciate having youon.
Vrinda Sadidhar (25:57):
Likewise, thank you very much and good luck.
Announcer (26:02):
This has been Count Me In, IMA's podcast providing
you with the latest perspectivesof thought leaders from the
accounting and financeprofession. If you like what you
heard and you'd like to becounted in for more relevant
accounting and financeeducation, visit IMA's website
at www.imanet.org.
Welcome to another episode of Count Me In. I'm your
host, Adam Larson, and today I'mthrilled to be joined by Vrinda
Sasidhar, vice president of HRconsulting at HSBC. Vrinda
brings over fifteen years ofexperience in HR across banking,
tech, and process outsourcingsectors, and she's here to share
her unique perspective on how HRand finance teams are working
more closely together than everbefore. In our conversation, we
(00:44):
explore how Vrinda's backgroundin psychology influences her
approach to HR, how thepartnership between HR and
finance has evolved, and whatskill sets are becoming
essential for young financeprofessionals as technology
continues to transform theindustry. Whether you're
interested in how organizationsare adapting to rapid change or
looking for practical strategiesto stay ahead, you want to tune
in for Renda's insights oncontinuous learning and our
(01:05):
thoughts on building resilientcollaborative teams for the
future.
Well, Vrinda, I'm so excited tohave you on the podcast today.
And today we're going to betalking about intersection of H.
R. And finance. You know, andyou have a lot of experience
with HR.
And have you seen theintersection of HR and finance
(01:27):
kind of evolve over the years,especially in the experience
that you've had?
Vrinda Sadidhar (01:30):
So let me just give you a little bit of
background of where what I havedone to then tell you, you know,
what I have probably experiencedin these fifteen years actually
of being in HR. So a large partof my experience within HR has
been in learning in DEI, inemployee engagement. And this
experience has been acrossbanking, across tech, across
(01:53):
what we call process outsourcingsectors, right? And each sector
has had, of course, uniqueproblems and of course, unique,
interesting things to solve for.So currently I work with a
leading bank and I've been withthe bank for eight years across
four roles.
And a large part has been indeveloping people and culture
(02:14):
and for teams in finance whereour conversation is really
largely going to be around. Mylatest role of course has been
in HR consulting which is alittle broader than finance. So
and the reason I speak aboutthis journey that I've had is
because it's been quiteinteresting for me to see how my
(02:35):
role has evolved in HR as well.So I mean, one of the things
I've seen that's happenedthrough these years is that one
is that HR has definitely becomemore strategic. I can see that
business calls us more on thetable.
There's a lot of work togetherthat we do, especially in pieces
(02:57):
when it comes to one optimizingresources, right? So it could be
not just people. I think peopleusually, you know, you think of
HR and you think of peopleresources, but our work now
becomes a little moreproductive. Are involved in
people and money and data andtech because a lot of HR
policies are really geared intosome of these conversations as
(03:18):
well. So I think that's whereour strategic partnership really
comes in.
I think the second, I would say,piece that we have been really
working on is while we talkabout talent strategies, now
there's an increased alignmentto what we call people
priorities that business setsout to have, right? So that is
(03:40):
your workforce planning, yourrecruitment, your performance
management, your successionplanning, all of that. And like
I said, did we do that before?Sure. But there's obviously
increased alignment with thebusiness as well.
And finally, I'm sure we allknow we keep talking about
changes. We keep talking aboutfuture of finance. I say now
it's no more future of financethan now of finance. Right. So
(04:02):
adapting to those marketchanges, changes in industry.
So I think HR really needs tofocus on not only helping your
organization, but now the wholeconversation on protecting
individuals and individualwell-being as well has become a
lot more important than probablythe previous years when I, when
I got started. So I thinkthat's, that's a good way of
saying these are three thingsI've seen over my journey in
(04:23):
nature.
Adam Larson (04:25):
Well, and when you and I first spoke, you mentioned
you had a little bit of abackground in psychology. How do
you think your understanding oflike things like human behavior
have kind of influenced yourapproach with HR, specifically
in the context of working withdifferent teams? Because you say
that your role is evolving,especially in how you work with
people. But we have tounderstand how people work, too.
Vrinda Sadidhar (04:46):
Right. You know, Adam, it's just not
finance. I think psychology hasjust had an impact generally on
my views and perspective. Right.And it's a good result in the
work that I do.
And I think you've said itright. It is about human
behavior. It is aboutunderstanding what are we
delivering and for who we aredelivering. For me, I think HR,
(05:07):
I mean, it's a gift to be in HR.One of the key roles that we
have is to be that communicationchannel between employees and
leadership.
So, we able to convey, I wouldsay, important decisions to the
wider audience? I'll be able toshare insights that we receive
from the masses to leadershipand it is another gift as HR. I
(05:29):
know that so many people whocome up to me, not just in
formal set ups, even in thoseinformal setups. So I think
psychology helps intransitioning and translating
these insights that we get wehear from both ends into
something that's actionable andof course using human principles
will help us to then convert itinto something meaningful for
(05:49):
our people and which of coursemakes sense for the
organization. That's one.
Of course a lot of focus, a lotof work that we do is around
employee engagement andmotivation. Understanding what
drives employees. Every countryis different, majority of an
organisation is different, thereare changes that are happening
rapidly, and everything has animpact on this. So HR needs to
(06:12):
be almost able to detect thatpulse, I would say, and know
what the employees need now,instead of always thinking, you
know, this is what they require,because everything is different.
So if the organisation isextremely volatile, then you
need to start thinking about,say, psychological safety,
because that's the need for now.
Know, resourcing is an issue andthe organization is getting
(06:36):
their folks to have long hoursin, then how do you acknowledge,
how do you reward immediately sothat people feel like
contributing to that currentenvironment, if I can say so.
And I think psychology and I'msure you agree as well provides
those tools for managing changewithin an organisation. There
are so many psychological, Iwould say, principles that also
(06:59):
guide effective communication tomitigate resistance, to mitigate
any kind of issues that comefrom change and to foster that
culture and that climate withinthe organisation. We talk about
data driven decision making andI'm sure we're going to be
talking a lot about it in thecontext of finance. Now it's
important to convert thesedecisions as well to something
(07:20):
that we understand as anorganization.
So what do we do with that data?And I can go on and on and on.
Like I said, it's not only mywork, I think, in
neuropsychology, it justimpacted the way and perspective
of how I look, look ateverything.
Adam Larson (07:37):
So as we, you know, as we look at the ever evolving
role of, you know, the changinglandscape for finance, the
changing landscape for prettymuch any of the industry, any of
the groups within anorganization, you know, young
graduates are looking into enterthe field. You know, what are
your insights for young youngfolks coming into you know, the
finance team, you know, becauseit doesn't look the same it did
(08:00):
ten years ago, fifteen yearsago. They have a lot of
different challenges. They can'tjust, they're not going to come
in and do grunt work right away.A lot of the grunt work is taken
care of by AI nowadays.
So there's different skills thatthey're going to have to have.
What does that look like as yousee it when new folks are coming
into your organization?
Vrinda Sadidhar (08:17):
Absolutely right. Like I said, finance is
quickly evolving. I've been withthem for eight years and every
two years there's a shift. Ithink some of the things and I'm
talking from data, right? Someresearch, market research on
finance.
So currently finance leadersspend about 19% more of the
(08:38):
total finance bandwidth on valueadded activities. So, say
strategic planning, treasury,operational risk management,
policy setting. That's not thecase ten years ago, right? That
it was absolutely generatingthose reports on and on and on,
right? So that's a big change.
(09:01):
And after that, I think I readit a few months ago about saying
that a lack of skills in dataliteracy can cost a company as
much as 1% of the revenue.Right. So data is such a
valuable resource. Right. So nowwe can see 70% of finance
organizations are using datalineage enabling technologies.
(09:24):
So machine learning, I think,analytics, etc, and so on and so
forth. The reason I'm tellingyou all of this is that in
finance, we in India especially,where I'm coming from, you know,
look at it from quite a linearview saying that you know you do
your accountancy, you do yourknow your CA as we called in
(09:45):
India and you're good you haveyour basics in banking but that
has changed. Those rules are notgoing to exist. In fact, they
say by 2028, '50 percent oforganizations would have
replaced time consuming bottomup forecasting approaches with
like what you said AI, know,demand planning etc. So the call
(10:06):
for the hour for the younggrads, one is to be saying that,
yes, I've gone through thisformal education, but do I
understand what exists in themarket?
Do I understand the digitalfirst approach? What banks are
doing what? What does automationlook like from a practical view?
(10:28):
Because you can read a lot ofgreat articles out of those
magazines, but what is actuallyhappening on ground? What are
some of the skills that you canupdate yourself on?
Are you thinking about so whenyou think about data, the single
set, single use of data are youthinking about even the ethical
side of using that data? So doyou understand banking
(10:48):
regulations are, you know, upthere, right? So what are the
regulatory measures that ourfirms are pushing? So do you
know enough about that, right?We're talking about sustainable
finance.
If that's something of interestto you, what does that mean?
Have you read up on that? So Ithink one is understanding that
you might be a young grad that'spassed out today, but probably
(11:11):
in six months' time. I'm notgoing to say it's going to be
outdated. Think fundamentalsalways would remain the same.
But are you understanding thesechanges that's happening in the
industry? And that can only comefrom, of course, experience, but
it also means that you need tocontinuously develop yourself.
Someone told me that you need tolook at a resume and every six
(11:35):
months if you don't havesomething new to put in there,
that means you're late. Right?You're late in learning
something new, which is such aninteresting way of looking at
it.
So that's something I blurted.I'm like, okay, that's
interesting. Maybe I won't putit on my resume, but that's what
am I going to, you know, ifsomebody asks me, what have I
learned in this last six months?That's important.
Adam Larson (11:55):
That's a huge, that's a really good challenge
to say, Hey, in every sixmonths, have I, have I learned
something new or have I donesomething new to put on my
resume? I've never heard thatbefore. It's really got me
thinking and hopefully it's gotour audience thinking too.
Vrinda Sadidhar (12:09):
Yeah, that's a little frightening also.
Adam Larson (12:11):
It is a little frightening. You know, so
speaking of having our resumeupdate every six months, you
know, a good goal is every sixmonths. Are there any other
specific skills or qualitiesthat are essential for us for
success, especially, you know,in the finance team?
Vrinda Sadidhar (12:27):
Yeah. When I spoke, I think about them more
from a technical knowledgeperspective. Let's be honest,
success in finance also hingeson soft skills. It also hinges
on personal qualities. It alsohinges on those fungible skills
that you can bring in.
Now this is a long list, but I'mgoing to try and keep it to say
(12:48):
three, four of them quicklywhatever comes on top of my
head. I think one important oneis of course, strategic
thinking. Are you able toevaluate information? Are you
able to make informed judgments?Are you able to solve complex
problems?
And these are all essential foryour strategic planning and risk
assessment, Right? In the samevein, when you're thinking about
(13:10):
evaluating information, and thisis something that I said we will
be coming to when I started datadriven problem solving. Are you
able to identify issues? Are youable to analyze data? Are you
able to device effectivesolutions?
And let me tell you, mostlyunder pressure and it needs to
be quick turnaround, right? So,So are your skills heightened
(13:35):
where you can make these quickdecisions? Another one, I don't
know if it's just for finance tobe honest, but I think this is
across industries and whateverrole that you do, storytelling,
right? And specifically tofinance, I would add maybe data
storytelling. So are you able toconvey complex financial data
and concepts to financialexperts, maybe like yourself
(13:58):
Adam, and non experts like mefrom HR, right?
Are you able to break it downfor both of us? And I think the
last two important ones againprobably just not for finance
but I think for everybody wouldbe relationship management. Will
have to develop and maintainstrong working relationships
with clients, with colleagues.Finance is interlinked. You have
(14:20):
internal stakeholders, externalstakeholders, and how are you
able to kind of bring it alltogether.
But I think to be successful,the underlying of everything is
curiosity, continuousimprovement, right? Like what we
discussed. When an industry ischanging as frequently and as
quickly, it is important to keepthat light almost ignited within
(14:42):
yourselves. Are you curious ifsomebody talks about, you know,
what this is the coding that Idid, or this is a report of
automated. Do you ask what, howcan you show me?
Or do you like, oh, interestingand move on. Right. I think
that's the differentiator.
Adam Larson (14:57):
Yeah. Now, do you have any insights in how to stay
curious? Because with the everchanging elements within an
organization or within ourwithin our roles, it's hard to
always stay curious.
Vrinda Sadidhar (15:08):
Yeah, absolutely. I think one is these
are now very personal pieces,right? Because I'm in HR and
because I worked in finance, Ihave the quickness of
understanding some of theconcepts as a finance
professional? No, But I stillneed to know what my business
does, right? So I think few tipswould be one for me.
(15:30):
It's important to have thatalmost that circle of influence.
So do you have a mentor that youlook up to, right? Do you have
your, I would say, informalcoffee sessions where you're
talking about the work thatyou're doing? Right. And I feel
that spark sometimes mostlycomes from informal
conversations.
Someone talks about a reportthat's automated or someone
(15:52):
talks about this conversationwith leadership, Someone talks
about a meeting that happenedand that spark saying, oh,
that's interesting. Is thatsomething I can, you know, take
up as well? Tell me more aboutit, right? So, one is building
that, like I said, that circleof influence. So, it could be a
mentor, it could be a coach, itcould and what I love is also
(16:15):
the reverse mentoring, right?
Could be someone who's fresh offthe boat in your organization.
So it doesn't always have to besomeone senior. You see someone
who's fantastic with technologyand sit with them and ask them,
you know, can you give me thebasics of say coding Python? Or
if they worked on any kind oftechnology, right? Maybe they
know a lot more about AI or MLor they've read about it.
(16:39):
Just sitting and saying, okay,show me what can you do with it.
And another important piece ofcuriosity is that I feel you
don't need to have thesolutions. You need to just be
clear with your problems anddon't worry about having the
solution. I think it's so quickto fit problems into the
solution that we know. Right.
(17:00):
So sometimes it's just askingthis is be very clear, saying
this is my problem and thenreally tapping into the network.
Right. So I think curiosity isnot only about getting skills,
but also about saying who arethe people who can enable me to
move ahead. Right. So thesecond, I mean, I think quite
related to that networking.
How often do you network? Ifyou're in finance, if you're in
(17:23):
HR and you're a podcast likeyourself, right? Do you have
people that you will haveconversations on really helping
your game? Because the more youtalk to people, you can realize
what can you say, maybe you feellike, oh, that's not for me. And
of course there's the formalways of building continuous
improvement.
Every organization will haveyour learning programs, will
(17:45):
have platforms that are enabledfor you. Do you know all those
platforms? And mostly they arepaid for by the organization. If
not, I mean, is nothing morepowerful than Google. If you ask
Google or chat J.
D. P. T. What are the best,places I need to go and find out
about the topic, usually theanswers are right. So of course,
(18:06):
those are your formalmethodology.
But I think what sometimes worksis building, I would say, a
strong network of people who'sgoing to keep asking you
questions and challenging youand for you to also challenge. I
think that's something you needto do. And if you are not
networking within your businessor your topic of interest,
(18:29):
that's something maybe youshould think about how often do
you want to do it, etc.
Adam Larson (18:33):
No, I really appreciate that insight. You
know, sometimes when when thingsget really busy, you know, a lot
of organizations are tighteningtheir belts, it becomes really
difficult to take the time tohave those informal
conversations. It becomesdifficult to have those water
cooler conversations, which ifyou look at the studies, it's
important to have those. We needto have those informal things to
(18:55):
get ourselves outside of the boxthat we put ourselves in because
it can be very difficult as ifyou're going from task to task
to task, you never have time toactually innovate and think
outside of what you're whatyou're working on. So, you know,
as somebody who was in financeand has gone to HR, are there
any challenges or misconceptionsthat you can, you know, you can
kind of share that you'veencountered as you kind of been
(19:17):
able to bridge that gap?
Vrinda Sadidhar (19:18):
So just to correct, you have always been in
HR. I think the difference isthat, you know, I worked with
finance and now I was broader.The things the relationship
between HR and other businessunits are often like that
chicken and egg dilemma, right?Is interdependence, there's
complexity, and not always afriendship, as you say, right?
But we need each other, ofcourse.
(19:40):
So I would say some of thechallenges would be one is
siloed planning. The thing is weneed to be on that table of
decision making. Sometimes whathappens is because there are
disconnected planning processeswhere each function operates
independently, means it leads toincomplete data. That means
assumptions from our end, right?There'll be conflicting analysis
(20:03):
on how do we kind of proceedwith our people.
So siloed planning leads todifferent priorities. And the
problem is businesses oftenexcuse me, businesses often
incentivized with financialperformance, right? Like, are
you making money? But for HR, wefocus on talent management, on
well-being, etc. So potentiallysometimes these priorities do
(20:25):
not really go together.
So that's one. The other one isbecause of the widening skill
gap in the industry,particularly in areas like data
science and AI, it becomes verydifficult to then find talent
well versed in both finance andHR. So then the work we need to
do is we'll have to update ourpractices. We need to meet the
(20:49):
expectations of today's jobseekers. Another thing is
businesses are like, now thereare a hundred roles open, but we
might need to find that talentin the market.
So how do we kind of adapt that?And that's sometimes the gap. So
I think the point I was tryingto make was that the skills gap
is the big piece that we need towork on. And I think the third
(21:09):
one I would like to add is thatnow this is a challenge or a
misconception? I don't know.
But I think that the commercialacumen of understanding
business, I think a lot of us inHR need to be a lot more prude
in. And like I mentioned, right,we don't need to be experts, but
we definitely need to understandthe fundamentals of the business
(21:29):
that we are taking care of. Andsometimes it becomes almost a
challenge and business picks upon that. Right. And I feel
that's an important piecebetween trust and mistrust when
you're working with business.
So the minute they understandthat, you know, you've done your
research, you know, theirbusiness, you know, what their
people are working for and ableto, you know, share that. I
(21:53):
think there is that's already atrust that is built. So, I guess
I don't know if it's amisconception, but it's
definitely a challenge that weneed to work towards.
Adam Larson (22:02):
So, no, I appreciate that. So when you're
looking at as an HRprofessional, you know, you
already talked about some of thechallenges, misconceptions. Are
there ways that you caneffectively collaborate with,
you know, especially the financeteam to achieve the shared goals
and objectives that you know,we've been referring to?
Vrinda Sadidhar (22:18):
So I think it's literally the opposite of what I
just said, right? I think onething is early collaboration,
engage early, be proactive,foster cohesion, create viable
processes. If there are weeklymeetings, monthly meetings that
business is a part of, make surethat you're invited and you have
(22:38):
a piece for HR and people thatthey are interested to partake
in. Right. And you also listento what are their challenges as
well.
So I think early collaborationis one. Communication and data
sharing. Open communicationchannels. Single data sets.
Right?
I think this is very importantbecause sometimes even data
sets, HR uses and one businessuses sometimes don't match. So
(23:02):
how do you kind of make surethat there's that singular data?
And like I mentioned, just likeyour early collaboration, the
joint planning, Say that, okay,these are your financial plans
for the year, okay, how do wealign it to talent strategies?
So this also helps for businessto believe that it goes with the
business objectives, right? Soit's important that we come
(23:23):
together.
And of course, another big oneis shared digital tools. So,
know, certain business might buycertain tools, and we should
also look at how do we kind ofupdate ourselves. So make sure
that we have what I mentionedearlier similar data sets,
single unit. Are you creatingreports of one another? Are you
(23:44):
working on business resiliencetogether?
I think all of this togetherwill slowly almost tighten that
relationship. And at the end ofthe day, for someone sitting and
working, right, we are a jointup unit, right? Leadership,
business, HR, we are a joint upunit. They don't look at us as
separate. So what is the bestexperience that we can give that
(24:06):
person coming into theorganization?
That's what that should be thegoal when we come together.
Adam Larson (24:11):
A lot of times when I have these conversations, I
always like to ask, like to endthe conversation with, you know,
what are your hopes andexpectations as you look into
the future, especially, youknow, the intersection of HR and
finance and how, you know,there's so many things changing.
There's rapidly changingeconomy, volatile things in the
workplace. You know, it's hardto kind of keep track of things.
What are your hopes andexpectations as we move forward
(24:31):
into this unknown?
Vrinda Sadidhar (24:32):
Well, I can speak for like the work that I
do. For me, I think as arepresentative in HR, for me,
it's stronger strategicpartnership, making sure that we
have data driven insights,enhanced collaboration. What I'd
mentioned earlier today on focuson employee well-being when
there's volatility, when thereare changes, right? It's also
(24:57):
impacting the person in yourteam. So what are some of the
policies around that?
Are the people managers equippedto deal with this new
environment, this new ecosystemthat they probably were not used
to as people managers. So, weequipping our leadership with
those tools? With technologyintegration also comes a bit of
fear, right, about your role. Ikeep saying it is not your role
(25:21):
that's going away, right? It'sthe boring stuff that goes away.
It means there's somethinginteresting. Your job is
evolving and you need to be apart of that, right, to make
work a lot more interesting foryourself. And I think, of
course, I mean, the last part ison your market, your regulatory
adaptability, right? When thosechanges happen, are we
(25:42):
resilient? Are we quick?
And that's something I mean,these are some of the skills
that we all need to be having inour little kitty.
Adam Larson (25:49):
Well, Veranda, I thank you so much for taking
time out of your busy scheduleto join me on this podcast, and
I really appreciate having youon.
Vrinda Sadidhar (25:57):
Likewise, thank you very much and good luck.
Announcer (26:02):
This has been Count Me In, IMA's podcast providing
you with the latest perspectivesof thought leaders from the
accounting and financeprofession. If you like what you
heard and you'd like to becounted in for more relevant
accounting and financeeducation, visit IMA's website
at www.imanet.org.
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