September 1, 2025 • 30 mins
In this episode, Adam Larson sits down with Steve Saah, Executive Director of Permanent Placement Operations at Robert Half, for a candid and practical chat about today’s challenging job market. Steve brings his extensive experience to the table, sharing real-world advice for both employers and job seekers—from how to attract and keep top finance professionals to how technology, remote work, and upskilling are shaking up traditional hiring trends. You’ll hear tips on what soft skills hiring managers are looking for, why company culture matters more than ever, and the smartest ways job candidates can stand out (it takes more than just updating your resume!). Whether you’re leading a finance team, looking for your next big opportunity, or trying to make sense of industry changes, you’ll find plenty of actionable insights and fresh perspectives in this lively conversation with one of the most trusted voices in accounting and finance talent.
Read more about today's topic: 2025 Finance and Accounting Job Market Outlook
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Adam Larson (00:21):
Hello, and welcome to Count Me In. I'm your host,
Adam Larson, and today I'mexcited to bring you a timely
conversation with Steve Shaw,Executive Director of Permanent
Placement Operations at RobertHalf. In this episode, we're
diving deep into the challengesand opportunities facing finance
and accounting professionals intoday's dynamic job market.
Steve shares his insiderperspective on navigating talent
(00:42):
shortages, the increasingimportance of soft skills, and
how technology and AI arereshaping the roles across the
industry. We'll talk strategiesfor employers looking to attract
and retain top talent, whyupskilling and reskilling matter
more than ever, and how companyculture and flexible work are
influencing hiring trends.
No matter if you're leadingdepartment or taking the next
(01:03):
step in your professionaljourney, this episode is full of
valuable practical advice youcan put to use right away. Let's
dive right in. Well, Steve,we're so excited to have you on
the podcast today. We've got alot to cover and we'll be
talking a lot about, you know,finance professionals in the job
(01:24):
market and especially how it'strying to look competitive.
There's a lot of things changingwithin that market.
And so I figured we could startoff just by starting with some
advice. You know, financeprofessionals looking to stand
out, and especially in today'sjob market where there's not a
lot of jobs and then there's alot of openings and there's just
a lot of things happening, a lotof moving parts going on in
today's market.
Steve Saah (01:44):
Yeah. I mean, first of all, thanks for having me on
today, Adam. It's great to chatwith you. And I think as you
started to allude to, withoutquestion, it's hard to avoid all
the uncertainty that exists inthe current market. And that's
true for both companies that aretrying to hire as well as
potential employees that may beeither actively or passively
(02:04):
looking for new opportunities.
And so the result of it is thatfor employers, particularly in
certain industries that might bemore affected by everything
that's going on in the worldright now, it's unclear how, if,
or when their company may beimpacted and kind of how that
translates into hiringdecisions. And so the flip side
of that is for really any givenpool of top candidates that are
(02:29):
qualified for the roles thatcompanies are in fact trying to
hire for. Many of thoseindividuals, I think, just might
be more reluctant to throw theirhat in the ring and make a
career move given all thatuncertainty that does exist. On
top of that, and I know you'refamiliar with this report, our
Demand for Skilled Talentreport, which you can find on
our site at roberthalf.com.There's some clear signs that
(02:51):
there's still an ongoingshortage of accountants, and
that continues to be a majorissue for everyone, from small
and medium sized businesses topublic accounting firms to large
publicly traded corporations.
And so I think big picture, thetalent gap that you've heard
about is real. I think it's verywell documented that fewer
(03:11):
people are choosing to enter theaccounting profession. The
youngest baby boomers arestarting to enter, believe it or
not, their 60s this year,meaning large volumes of them
are kind of inching up onretirement. In addition, we just
see more people looking at rolesother than traditional
accounting positions, often forwhat they perceive to be better
compensation, better benefitpackages, better work life
(03:33):
balance, more flexibility intheir schedules, etcetera,
etcetera, etcetera. So it's areal struggle to find top talent
in today's market.
And to address this shortage,we're just seeing more and more
companies starting to look atthings like upskilling and
reskilling their currentemployees in key areas. Some are
even bringing back recentlyretired professionals as
(03:54):
consultants, which gives them alot of in-depth experience and
really the staffing flexibilityfor when and where they need
additional support as well. Andthen in our salary guide, we
have some stats around all ofthis, and the one thing that
really stands out to me is thefact that 51% of finance and
accounting managers say hiringquickly enough to land top
(04:16):
talent is one of their toprecruiting challenges. So yeah,
to get back to your originalpoint, it's a very, very
challenging and tricky dynamicright now.
Adam Larson (04:24):
Yeah, it really is. And I just wanted to say for the
audience, please click the linksin the show notes so you can see
the links to the reports thatSteve is referring to if you
want to look at those in moredetail before listening to the
rest of the conversation. So,you know, are there ways that
companies can benchmark some ofthe skills they need to make
sure that they're getting theright candidates in the right
place? But also, you mentionedupskilling, so I guess it's a
(04:45):
twofold question. Like, how canwe better make sure we have the
right skills for when we'rehiring new people, but how do we
keep our current people in theright spot?
Steve Saah (04:53):
Yeah, it's a tricky dynamic again, and as I
mentioned, that skills gap is avery significant challenge that
can be frustrating at times. Andso I think in a lot of cases,
it's probably pretty easy fororganizations and individual
hiring managers to kind of writeout the technical skills needed
for a given role. But I thinkmany would also agree that often
(05:14):
the differentiating factor inassessing potential is really
more things like the softskills. So I'd really encourage
hiring managers to focus on moreof those. My advice for kind of
digging deeper is to kind ofthrow out open ended and
hypothetical questions into themix when talking to prospective
candidates.
I just think it gives you abetter sense of how they tackle
challenges and solve problems onthe spot. So maybe if I could
(05:38):
just share a few examples. Tome, it's things such as, like,
how has your team made adecision and, you know, you're
the only one who might disagreewith it? So what's your game
plan? I think that's a great wayto assess a person's approach on
teamwork.
For something like adaptabilityor problem solving, you could
say to a candidate, let's say,for example, you're in the
(05:58):
middle of a project and suddenlythe goals shift drastically. How
would you deal with thatsituation? For leadership
skills, maybe ask a questionalong the lines of, If you
notice a decline in employeemorale, what would you do to
improve things? And then forsomething like thought
leadership, or certainly there'sa lot of conversation, I'm sure
we'll get into it aroundtechnology. So your manager asks
(06:21):
you to draft some guidelines forhow you and your team can
utilize AI when assessing clientdeliverables.
What factors would you considerand how would you kind of
approach creating thoseguidelines? So when you're
having those types ofconversations and dialoguing
with a person, you should reallybe looking for nonverbal cues in
their demeanor, eye contact, howthey're thinking about these
(06:43):
types of questions, theirconfidence levels, and in
general, just how they engagewith you throughout the
conversation. But to me, all ofthese things are probably a much
better litmus test of one'spotential, both for success and
their current role, as well asdown the road versus just kind
of focusing on the technicalskills required to do the
immediate job at hand.
Adam Larson (07:04):
I like that approach, Steve, because it's
like we have all these new toolsthat can look at somebody's
resume and analyze all the wordsthat are used, but nothing can
replace the fact of actuallysitting down and having a
conversation, looking at theirreactions and looking at all
those things. And that'ssomething that I feel like kind
of gets lost with the speed thatthe AI and the technologies are
giving us.
Steve Saah (07:24):
Sure. It's a very good point, Adam.
Adam Larson (07:26):
So when we look at like high demand talent, you
know, if you know, becauseyou're saying that there's a lot
of there's not as many there'snot as many candidates for for
for roles. But if you're tryingto attract top accounting and
finance professionals to yourteam, you know, how do you what
are some strategies thatemployers can use to kinda grab
those people and bring them in?
Steve Saah (07:44):
Sure. Well, I'd start by saying maybe just from
a big picture perspective, tome, the most important thing is
knowing your audience, knowingyour market, and knowing your
competition. Meaning, do youknow the types of candidates
that you're trying to attractand what's generally appealing
to them? What are the generaltrends in your market that are
(08:05):
attractive to prospectivecandidates? And what are
competitors doing to attract andretain the same candidates that
you're looking for?
After that, and I want to normean to contradict myself, but I
also think it's really criticalto step back and remember that
each person is very different,and most likely what influences
(08:26):
their job satisfaction, whatthey're looking for, and what
motivates them is very, verydifferent than the next person.
Meaning that we all have tounderstand and appreciate that
each person is a uniqueindividual with unique needs and
desires. And to me,organizations that understand
this and can adapt to eachperson's circumstances are going
(08:47):
to, without question, justgenerally do better at
attracting, successfully hiring,and in my mind, most importantly
of all, retaining top talent.You mentioned some of the
reports that we have. I think agreat one is our multi
generational report as we divedeep into the subject.
But big picture, you can't justput people into broad buckets
(09:08):
because they were born in acertain year or part of
generation X, for example.Likewise, you can't just treat
all accountants the same way. Tome, there's a saying that I love
and it's one size fits one. Andyou have to have individual
conversations and take intoconsideration what's important
to that one unique person andtheir individual circumstances.
Adam Larson (09:29):
Yeah, that's hugely important. So what are things
like, you know, compensation andbenefit? How does that cater
into those conversations?
Steve Saah (09:36):
Well, as long as I've been doing this, Adam,
which now is over twenty fiveyears, I'd say comp and benefits
are always right at or very,very near the top of the list
for most people and probablyalways will be. So I think by
and large, that's a given. Butwhat I'd also say, and I think
it's probably fair that itapplies to everyone, including
(09:58):
the two of us, I'm guessing.Like everybody would like to
make more money, but that's notoften the fundamental reason why
a person is or isn't satisfied.When talk to people throughout
the country, kind of what Iconsistently hear in today's
world, it's things such asflexible work arrangements, the
ability to learn and work withemerging technologies,
(10:19):
particularly with all thingsrelated to AI, the ability to
grow and continually advancetheir careers, who they get to
work with day in and day out inthe culture of an organization.
Those are the things that themajority of people are most
focused on. So I'd kind of goback to maybe what I mentioned
earlier, Adam, and that's simplythat what's important to me may
(10:40):
be very different than what'simportant to you and others. And
knowing and appreciating that isreally gonna help everyone make
better employment and careerdecisions that will lead to kind
of on the front end, attractingthe right people for your
organization, and again, mostimportantly, retaining them on
the back end. You know, I know Imentioned it several times, but
(11:01):
I can't stress it enough. It'sthose kind of unique
individualized conversationswhere you'll discover what truly
motivates your employees andenables you to learn kind of how
to maximize their potentialthroughout the course of their
career.
Adam Larson (11:12):
And when it comes to retaining employees, you
mentioned that it's more thanjust compensation. There's other
factors that are involved, and Ican imagine that stuff like
company culture is a huge partof that. Can we talk a little
bit about the importance ofmaking sure that your company
culture is in way that'sinviting and can include those
new employees as you're bringingthem in?
Steve Saah (11:30):
Sure. Well, I mean, culture is absolutely critical.
I think you have to vet that outon the front end when talking to
people to make sure that it'sgonna be a good fit. And so
oftentimes, particularly in jobdescriptions when we start
writing those, you tend to focuson the technical skills that are
required to do the job, but thenyou have to make sure that that
(11:53):
person is gonna be a long termfit, both within the team and
the organization. The otherthing that kind of comes into it
is there's just a lot of otherfactors that people are taking
into consideration today.
I know you're probably gonna aska question at some point about
hybrid and remote workopportunities because that's
just on the top of everyone'smind and it's just really an
(12:14):
ever shifting dynamic. So again,it goes, to me, it goes back to
those individual conversationsthat allow you to vet out what's
most important to an individualperson and how they're gonna fit
in with your organization.
Adam Larson (12:29):
Yeah, well, and let's talk about hybrid remote
work environments because whenCOVID happened, you suddenly
realize, hey, the accounting andfinance team doesn't necessarily
need to be in the same room. Wecan use these new technologies
and do things in a way that wecan come together. How do you
think that's impacted the hiringprocess, especially for
accounting and finance roles?Because, you know, some people
have moved back to total inperson, other people are just a
(12:50):
hybrid kind of thing, so it's ashifting environment for sure.
Steve Saah (12:54):
Well, as I mentioned, it's hard to have
this conversation withouttalking about hybrid, remote,
and office. And so I figured itwas coming up at some point.
Look, think it's a movingtarget. It's a continual
evolution, and that's going tojust most likely continue to ebb
and flow for the foreseeablefuture. On the one hand, you
have a fair number of notablecompanies that have kind of
(13:16):
started to implement thesereturn to the office policies
where they cite the need forpeople to connect more with one
another, collaborate and learntogether, help maintain that
corporate culture to go back toyour previous question, right?
And I think it's generally fairto say that more companies are
starting to require more peopleto come into the office a bit
more often. That's notnecessarily nine to five or five
(13:39):
days a week, but again, I thinkit's fair to say more companies
are looking to have more peoplecome into the office a bit more
often. On the other hand though,I don't think the majority of
people wanna be wedded to astrict schedule whereby they
need to be in the office everyday or even on a rigid schedule.
People now want autonomy, theywant flexibility, and it's not
(14:03):
just limited to where peoplework, but frankly, when they
work as well. So concepts suchas, you know, flexible
schedules, windowed work, that'sall part of the conversation and
probably will be for So quitesome to me, employers need to
both recognize that at least foraccounting and financial roles,
(14:24):
there's still a very competitivelabor market with the
unemployment rate often being aslow as one to 2% for any given
role in most markets around thecountry.
So you have to recognize thatpeople do have a lot of choices
on where they work. And again,that's especially true in
accounting and finance. Thatdynamic is gonna continue to ebb
and flow as each organizationand person needs to kind of find
(14:47):
the right balance between thoseextremes. But without question,
when you offer remote roles,hybrid roles, flexible windowed
work schedules, that also opensup the pool of talent that you
have access to, which cancertainly help you find the
right person for the long run.So it's an interesting dynamic
and I think one that we're goingto see again, kind of ebb and
(15:08):
flow for the foreseeable future.
Adam Larson (15:10):
Yeah, especially as, you know, different
industries make differentdecisions and the trends are
continue to go up and downdepending where you are. So it
definitely be interesting towatch. So when we think about,
you know, you mentionedtechnology, technology is
something that plays a huge rolein hiring a huge role in how we
run our organizations. You know,what role do you see kind of
technology and especially thingslike data analytics playing in
(15:33):
the future of hiring, especiallyaccounting and finance
professionals? It's definitely achanging trend.
Steve Saah (15:39):
Well, as you said, I mean, there's no question that
the industry is trendingtowards, more and more use of
data analytics and technology. Imentioned it earlier to me,
particularly all things AIrelated. And I think what we're
seeing in the market is thatwhile there's a lot of projects
like digital transformation,things that are really ramping
up, The challenge is againaround finding qualified
(16:01):
candidates quickly enough, andthen when you do, successfully
landing them is also tricky, asmany times they have competing
offers. So, you know, as I talkto our teams across the country,
I think clearly some of the morein demand technical skills are
in areas such as ERP systems.Cybersecurity is another hot
one.
(16:21):
I mentioned a moment ago,digital transformation. Again,
not to be repetitive, butcertainly any and everything
related to AI, right? Even somuch so that speaking of AI,
we're starting to see some newfunctional roles kind of
appearing in the market. So Idon't know if you've seen these
titles, Adam, but things like AIFinancial Analysts, AI Auditors,
(16:43):
AI Compliance Analysts. Andthese are all newly developing
roles where companies arelooking for folks that can use
the AI to help with dataanalytics and really help
organizations make betterinformed decisions.
So overall, I think all of thisleads to an incredibly exciting
time to be in the accounting andfinance space. While again, it's
(17:04):
ever evolving, there's noquestion that these trends
towards the use of technologyare going to continue.
Adam Larson (17:09):
So do you think this is going to attract people
who are not traditionalaccountants, people who didn't
come up through the big four anddid their CPA and did the big
four and then moving over?Because it seems like that with
these new types of roles, don'tnecessarily have to have a
traditional accountingbackground.
Steve Saah (17:23):
Yeah, I think there's actually is becoming a
very blurred line between, asyou said, the traditional
accounting, the traditionalfinance jobs and technology
jobs. And so I think people thathave a hybrid background between
those two are really settingthemselves up for long term
success. There's going tocontinue to be more and more
(17:45):
demand for people that canbridge that gap between the two.
Adam Larson (17:49):
Yeah, and I think it'll be a good way to kind of
bridge between the differentteams as well. Because if you
have, you have your finance teamand then you have your IT team
and they don't necessarily meshunless they're like, hey, we
need to do our ERP system andthen suddenly everybody gets
involved. But I think it'll bemore a day to day thing where
it'll be a nice bridge, like yousaid. And I think that's a real
(18:09):
win for the organization.
Steve Saah (18:10):
Yeah. You see that a lot in organizational structures
too as more IT technology teamsare reporting up through the CFO
function, right? And so I thinkyour point is spot on with that,
Adam.
Adam Larson (18:23):
Yeah, and I yeah, it seems to seems to flow better
and work better from anorganizational standpoint and
the finance team, the CFO needsto understand what's happening
with the technology becausethey're making sure it's getting
taken paid for. And so I thinkthat there's a good connection
there. It makes sense.
Steve Saah (18:39):
Without question.
Adam Larson (18:41):
Yeah. So when we think about continuous
upskilling, we've mentioned alot of different things
throughout this conversationabout what the teams need to do
to prepare themselves. Maybe wecould talk like specifically,
what are some good upskilling?What are ways that they can
especially employers can supporttheir teams when I'm trying to
upskill and especially with allthe changes that are happening?
Steve Saah (19:01):
Sure. Well, I think upskilling and reskilling kind
of go hand in hand. I think theycan both be great ways to kind
of make your existing workforcenot only better at their jobs,
but it provides them withfrankly a lot more career
satisfaction, and that leadsorganizations retaining all that
institutional knowledge thatgoes hand in hand with a great
(19:24):
retention strategy. I do thinkit's maybe important for your
audience to kind of call out thedifference between upskilling
and reskilling, because to me,they're both really important
and can be utilized in somewhatsimilar but subtly different
ways as well. And so upskillingreally involves expanding an
employee's skillset so that theycan advance along their current
(19:47):
career path.
So as job requirements evolve,as technology evolves, I think
upskilling allows your currentemployees to just gain more and
more new abilities andcontribute more in their current
roles and stay relevant.Reskilling is where you're
teaching existing employeescompletely new skills so that
(20:08):
they can move into differentroles within the organization.
And so this allows very, verytalented workers with limited
growth opportunities in theircurrent jobs to reposition
themselves in the organization.And so what that does for the
organization is it gives yourbusiness the ability to retain
those valued team members whohave already proven themselves
in previous roles, but then moveinto something completely
(20:30):
different. And so to me, inorder to kind of have a really
positive net impact on yourentire workforce, those
programs, both upskilling andreskilling, need to be tailored
to your specific business needs.
So to me, the first step is tostep back and analyze your
(20:51):
business strategy, identifywhere those skills gaps exist to
really kind of meet both shortterm, medium, and longer term
objectives. And so once you'vedone that, and a lot of times
when you're going through thatskills gap assessment, I think
the technical skills are usuallythe first things to spring to
mind. But going back tosomething we talked about a few
(21:14):
moments ago, don't forget aboutsoft skills such as
adaptability, problem solving,communication. And so when you
know where those skills gapsare, you can then choose from a
wide range of tools to kind ofhelp shape that training
program. So those could bethings like mentoring programs,
job shadowing, online learning,attending network events and
(21:36):
conferences, etcetera.
I mean, to me, all those typesof things help people
continually evolve and justdevelop their skill sets for the
future.
Adam Larson (21:43):
So what would you say to a leader who is having
trouble finding the time for histeam to reskill or upskill? It
seems like that with a lot oforganizations tighten their
belts, they, you know, they'vebeen restructuring. There's a
lot of restructuring, which I'msure the reskilling plays into a
part of that. But they say, Hey,my team is understaffed. We
don't have time to upskill.
What would your advice be tothem to try to find that time?
(22:03):
Because it is important.
Steve Saah (22:05):
Invest the time, right? You can find the time if
you place the priorities on it.But to your point, you know, too
often times you're focused onthe here and now and the job and
the tasks and everything that'sin front of you. But if you
don't invest your time and yourpeople today, the reality of it
is there are other organizationsout there that are going to look
(22:28):
to bring those folks on board totheir teams, And that creates
opportunities for people. So ifthe opportunity is not within
the four walls of yourorganization and individuals on
your teams don't feel as thoughthey can progress their career,
that there's not an opportunitydown the road for them, they're
going to find it elsewhere.
And so ultimately I think youneed to step back and evaluate
(22:49):
and ask yourself, is it betterto retain that institutional
knowledge and develop peoplethat have been with us for X
number of years versus having togo out and hire from the
outside? And I think thatthere's pros and cons to both as
always, but I think most peoplewould agree, especially as
individuals start to get moreand more tenure under their
belts within an organization,that that institutional
(23:11):
knowledge, experience, therelationships, the knowledge of
the business that people have,that's one of the hardest things
to get. And so by investing inpeople and finding that time
today, you can make sure thatyour retention is at the levels
that you really want it to be.
Adam Larson (23:26):
Yeah, it seems like a more of a depending on what
your organization needs andwants are is how you would
handle that situation,basically. And I suppose that
it's, like you said, you'regoing to invest the time that,
you know, if it's reallyimportant, you're going to
invest that time. And I think itcomes back to, you know,
leadership and structuring howyour organization is run.
(23:47):
Because if everybody feels likethey don't have time for
anything, well, maybe there's abetter way to do what you're
doing to make sure that theyfeel like they have that time.
Steve Saah (23:53):
Absolutely. That's a good point.
Adam Larson (23:55):
So Steve, we've been talking a lot about from
the employer's perspective. Sowhat if you're listening to this
podcast and you're a candidate?What are ways that you can help
stand out? Because, you know,you want to stand out, you want
to get yourself seen, you wantto get yourself in front of the
hiring manager so you can havethat conversation that we've
been talking about.
Steve Saah (24:10):
Yeah. I mean, think as we were talking about a
moment ago with everythingthat's evolving, the use of
technology and so forth, there'sno question, it's a great time
to be in the accounting andfinance field. Again, I mean, I
think there's high demand in themarket, Unemployment rates for
accountants and financialprofessionals are near historic
lows. There's a lot of skillsgaps that need to be filled. So
(24:34):
all of it bodes well for someonewho's looking for a new role.
In general, I think when you'rethinking about how to stand out,
I'd recommend by just startingto do an honest assessment of
your marketability. What areyour biggest strengths? What do
you need to improve upon inorder to position yourself as
the best candidate out there?That takes some time and effort.
(24:54):
But again, I think it'sparamount to your success to
kind of put and keep your careertop of mind.
So speak with your mentors, gettheir perspectives, focus on
developing more of your softskills, as we had talked about
previously, and then be sure andutilize the power of networking
and social media, particularlyLinkedIn. So if you think about
(25:14):
what's a hiring manager'sinitial impression of you when
they look at your profile,because trust me, they will. Are
you using a high quality photoof yourself? Are you well
connected to other people withinyour field? Are you posting on
LinkedIn with some degree ofregularity showing kind of both
what you're involved inprofessionally as well as
personally throughout thecommunity?
(25:34):
The other big one that a lot ofpeople tend to forget about is
have you recently updated yourresume so that if and when,
right? If the right opportunitycomes up, when the right
opportunity presents itself, areyou ready to go? And one tip
around that though is I'd highlyrecommend, highly, highly
recommend not using the sameresume for every role. Tailor it
(25:58):
to the specific position, thespecific company, the specific
industry to which you'reapplying and highlight the
things that that organization isfocused on. As I like to say,
you kind of, you want to makesure that you're applying for
the job and the position thatyou're applying for.
Invest the time, do thatupfront, and it just makes a
huge difference. Those littletweaks can really set you apart.
Adam Larson (26:19):
So essentially you'll have multiple copies of
your resume with wordsmithingdepending on the role you're
giving in, Correct. Basically,
Steve Saah (26:26):
Big picture, it's all the same, but there's little
tweaks that tailor it to thatspecific role at that specific
organization in that specificindustry is going make a
difference. It really will.
Adam Larson (26:37):
So where would somebody look to say, Hey, I
want to make sure I have theright wording on my resume. Are
there services out there? Arethere websites they can go to to
say, Hey, these are the besttypes of words to use within
your descriptions and stuff likethat?
Steve Saah (26:49):
Well, I mean, think probably the one that most
people would gravitate towardstoday would be ChatGPT. It's
really easy to kind of put yourresume in there and ask it
simply, how does this line upwith the job description and the
company? But I think just being,again, kind of intellectually
honest with yourself and goingalmost bullet point by bullet
(27:12):
point through the description,as well as your resume, and
asking yourself how manyparallels are there between the
two? What are the things thatyou can highlight that you've
done in your career that thisemployer has tended to focus on
in their job description, thatare relevant to them, that are
in alignment with the technologyand the software that they use.
(27:33):
It's a pretty straightforwardexercise.
My point is, oftentimes,particularly with the way people
can apply today by going onlineand just click, click, click,
click and apply to three or fourjobs that fast, that's not what
you want to do. You want to makesure that you take a few
moments, step back, and again,see how closely your background
experience will align with whatit is that they're looking for.
Adam Larson (27:56):
No, that's good advice. Thanks. Thanks, Steve.
So, you know, as we kind ofwe've talked about a lot of
things, but I can't help wecan't help but address, you
know, the elephant in the roomright now, you know, especially
in The U. S, you know, with thechanging of the president and
everything that's happening andthe economic climate is
shifting.
There's a lot of uncertaintyeverywhere and it's shifting the
(28:16):
way like people are looking atThe US, the way, you know,
organizations are working withThe US. You know, how is that
going to impact the hiringtrends for accounting and
finance professionals?
Steve Saah (28:25):
Well, I think we've touched on this as we kind of
started the conversation, Adam,but maybe it's a good way to
wrap up and just kind of bringit full circle. There's no
question that there's a greatdeal of uncertainty given the
current climate. That said, asI've mentioned, you know, kind
of along the way throughout theconversation, there's also no
question that there's stillhiring to be done for critical
roles. And I think those withthe most in demand skill sets
(28:48):
are going to have a number ofopportunities to choose from. We
kind of see that day in and dayout with candidates that we're
working with as they often havemultiple offers, and then
they're actually gettingcounteroffered by their current
employer when giving notice.
So I think big picture, thistricky dynamic is going to
continue for a bit longer. Butin a recent survey we did, about
(29:08):
65% of the hiring managers thatwe surveyed indicated that they
were hiring for new roles, whilejust over 30% indicated that
they were only hiring forrecently vacated roles, meaning
there's still a lot of nethiring to be done specifically
in accounting and finance.However, out of that whole
(29:29):
population, 93% of them reportedchallenges in just finding
skilled talent right now. So tome, kind of the net net of it
all is that while to your point,and again, I wholeheartedly
agree, there is a lot ofuncertainty. There's still
hiring that needs to be done.
I think individuals inaccounting and finance still
have a lot of opportunities tochoose from. There's a lot of
(29:51):
exciting things happening in theaccounting and financial world
right now, and that's going tocontinue for quite some time. So
it's a good place to be.
Adam Larson (29:59):
It is a good place to be. Well, Steve, I really
appreciate you taking time outof your busy schedule to speak
with us and sharing yourexpertise with our audience
today.
Steve Saah (30:06):
Yeah. It's always great being on with you, Adam.
Announcer (30:10):
This has been Count Me In, IMA's podcast, providing
you with the latest perspectivesof thought leaders from the
accounting and financeprofession. If you like what you
heard and and you'd like to becounted in for more relevant
accounting and financeeducation, visit IMA's website
at www.imanet.org.
Hello, and welcome to Count Me In. I'm your host,
Adam Larson, and today I'mexcited to bring you a timely
conversation with Steve Shaw,Executive Director of Permanent
Placement Operations at RobertHalf. In this episode, we're
diving deep into the challengesand opportunities facing finance
and accounting professionals intoday's dynamic job market.
Steve shares his insiderperspective on navigating talent
(00:42):
shortages, the increasingimportance of soft skills, and
how technology and AI arereshaping the roles across the
industry. We'll talk strategiesfor employers looking to attract
and retain top talent, whyupskilling and reskilling matter
more than ever, and how companyculture and flexible work are
influencing hiring trends.
No matter if you're leadingdepartment or taking the next
(01:03):
step in your professionaljourney, this episode is full of
valuable practical advice youcan put to use right away. Let's
dive right in. Well, Steve,we're so excited to have you on
the podcast today. We've got alot to cover and we'll be
talking a lot about, you know,finance professionals in the job
(01:24):
market and especially how it'strying to look competitive.
There's a lot of things changingwithin that market.
And so I figured we could startoff just by starting with some
advice. You know, financeprofessionals looking to stand
out, and especially in today'sjob market where there's not a
lot of jobs and then there's alot of openings and there's just
a lot of things happening, a lotof moving parts going on in
today's market.
Steve Saah (01:44):
Yeah. I mean, first of all, thanks for having me on
today, Adam. It's great to chatwith you. And I think as you
started to allude to, withoutquestion, it's hard to avoid all
the uncertainty that exists inthe current market. And that's
true for both companies that aretrying to hire as well as
potential employees that may beeither actively or passively
(02:04):
looking for new opportunities.
And so the result of it is thatfor employers, particularly in
certain industries that might bemore affected by everything
that's going on in the worldright now, it's unclear how, if,
or when their company may beimpacted and kind of how that
translates into hiringdecisions. And so the flip side
of that is for really any givenpool of top candidates that are
(02:29):
qualified for the roles thatcompanies are in fact trying to
hire for. Many of thoseindividuals, I think, just might
be more reluctant to throw theirhat in the ring and make a
career move given all thatuncertainty that does exist. On
top of that, and I know you'refamiliar with this report, our
Demand for Skilled Talentreport, which you can find on
our site at roberthalf.com.There's some clear signs that
(02:51):
there's still an ongoingshortage of accountants, and
that continues to be a majorissue for everyone, from small
and medium sized businesses topublic accounting firms to large
publicly traded corporations.
And so I think big picture, thetalent gap that you've heard
about is real. I think it's verywell documented that fewer
(03:11):
people are choosing to enter theaccounting profession. The
youngest baby boomers arestarting to enter, believe it or
not, their 60s this year,meaning large volumes of them
are kind of inching up onretirement. In addition, we just
see more people looking at rolesother than traditional
accounting positions, often forwhat they perceive to be better
compensation, better benefitpackages, better work life
(03:33):
balance, more flexibility intheir schedules, etcetera,
etcetera, etcetera. So it's areal struggle to find top talent
in today's market.
And to address this shortage,we're just seeing more and more
companies starting to look atthings like upskilling and
reskilling their currentemployees in key areas. Some are
even bringing back recentlyretired professionals as
(03:54):
consultants, which gives them alot of in-depth experience and
really the staffing flexibilityfor when and where they need
additional support as well. Andthen in our salary guide, we
have some stats around all ofthis, and the one thing that
really stands out to me is thefact that 51% of finance and
accounting managers say hiringquickly enough to land top
(04:16):
talent is one of their toprecruiting challenges. So yeah,
to get back to your originalpoint, it's a very, very
challenging and tricky dynamicright now.
Adam Larson (04:24):
Yeah, it really is. And I just wanted to say for the
audience, please click the linksin the show notes so you can see
the links to the reports thatSteve is referring to if you
want to look at those in moredetail before listening to the
rest of the conversation. So,you know, are there ways that
companies can benchmark some ofthe skills they need to make
sure that they're getting theright candidates in the right
place? But also, you mentionedupskilling, so I guess it's a
(04:45):
twofold question. Like, how canwe better make sure we have the
right skills for when we'rehiring new people, but how do we
keep our current people in theright spot?
Steve Saah (04:53):
Yeah, it's a tricky dynamic again, and as I
mentioned, that skills gap is avery significant challenge that
can be frustrating at times. Andso I think in a lot of cases,
it's probably pretty easy fororganizations and individual
hiring managers to kind of writeout the technical skills needed
for a given role. But I thinkmany would also agree that often
(05:14):
the differentiating factor inassessing potential is really
more things like the softskills. So I'd really encourage
hiring managers to focus on moreof those. My advice for kind of
digging deeper is to kind ofthrow out open ended and
hypothetical questions into themix when talking to prospective
candidates.
I just think it gives you abetter sense of how they tackle
challenges and solve problems onthe spot. So maybe if I could
(05:38):
just share a few examples. Tome, it's things such as, like,
how has your team made adecision and, you know, you're
the only one who might disagreewith it? So what's your game
plan? I think that's a great wayto assess a person's approach on
teamwork.
For something like adaptabilityor problem solving, you could
say to a candidate, let's say,for example, you're in the
(05:58):
middle of a project and suddenlythe goals shift drastically. How
would you deal with thatsituation? For leadership
skills, maybe ask a questionalong the lines of, If you
notice a decline in employeemorale, what would you do to
improve things? And then forsomething like thought
leadership, or certainly there'sa lot of conversation, I'm sure
we'll get into it aroundtechnology. So your manager asks
(06:21):
you to draft some guidelines forhow you and your team can
utilize AI when assessing clientdeliverables.
What factors would you considerand how would you kind of
approach creating thoseguidelines? So when you're
having those types ofconversations and dialoguing
with a person, you should reallybe looking for nonverbal cues in
their demeanor, eye contact, howthey're thinking about these
(06:43):
types of questions, theirconfidence levels, and in
general, just how they engagewith you throughout the
conversation. But to me, all ofthese things are probably a much
better litmus test of one'spotential, both for success and
their current role, as well asdown the road versus just kind
of focusing on the technicalskills required to do the
immediate job at hand.
Adam Larson (07:04):
I like that approach, Steve, because it's
like we have all these new toolsthat can look at somebody's
resume and analyze all the wordsthat are used, but nothing can
replace the fact of actuallysitting down and having a
conversation, looking at theirreactions and looking at all
those things. And that'ssomething that I feel like kind
of gets lost with the speed thatthe AI and the technologies are
giving us.
Steve Saah (07:24):
Sure. It's a very good point, Adam.
Adam Larson (07:26):
So when we look at like high demand talent, you
know, if you know, becauseyou're saying that there's a lot
of there's not as many there'snot as many candidates for for
for roles. But if you're tryingto attract top accounting and
finance professionals to yourteam, you know, how do you what
are some strategies thatemployers can use to kinda grab
those people and bring them in?
Steve Saah (07:44):
Sure. Well, I'd start by saying maybe just from
a big picture perspective, tome, the most important thing is
knowing your audience, knowingyour market, and knowing your
competition. Meaning, do youknow the types of candidates
that you're trying to attractand what's generally appealing
to them? What are the generaltrends in your market that are
(08:05):
attractive to prospectivecandidates? And what are
competitors doing to attract andretain the same candidates that
you're looking for?
After that, and I want to normean to contradict myself, but I
also think it's really criticalto step back and remember that
each person is very different,and most likely what influences
(08:26):
their job satisfaction, whatthey're looking for, and what
motivates them is very, verydifferent than the next person.
Meaning that we all have tounderstand and appreciate that
each person is a uniqueindividual with unique needs and
desires. And to me,organizations that understand
this and can adapt to eachperson's circumstances are going
(08:47):
to, without question, justgenerally do better at
attracting, successfully hiring,and in my mind, most importantly
of all, retaining top talent.You mentioned some of the
reports that we have. I think agreat one is our multi
generational report as we divedeep into the subject.
But big picture, you can't justput people into broad buckets
(09:08):
because they were born in acertain year or part of
generation X, for example.Likewise, you can't just treat
all accountants the same way. Tome, there's a saying that I love
and it's one size fits one. Andyou have to have individual
conversations and take intoconsideration what's important
to that one unique person andtheir individual circumstances.
Adam Larson (09:29):
Yeah, that's hugely important. So what are things
like, you know, compensation andbenefit? How does that cater
into those conversations?
Steve Saah (09:36):
Well, as long as I've been doing this, Adam,
which now is over twenty fiveyears, I'd say comp and benefits
are always right at or very,very near the top of the list
for most people and probablyalways will be. So I think by
and large, that's a given. Butwhat I'd also say, and I think
it's probably fair that itapplies to everyone, including
(09:58):
the two of us, I'm guessing.Like everybody would like to
make more money, but that's notoften the fundamental reason why
a person is or isn't satisfied.When talk to people throughout
the country, kind of what Iconsistently hear in today's
world, it's things such asflexible work arrangements, the
ability to learn and work withemerging technologies,
(10:19):
particularly with all thingsrelated to AI, the ability to
grow and continually advancetheir careers, who they get to
work with day in and day out inthe culture of an organization.
Those are the things that themajority of people are most
focused on. So I'd kind of goback to maybe what I mentioned
earlier, Adam, and that's simplythat what's important to me may
(10:40):
be very different than what'simportant to you and others. And
knowing and appreciating that isreally gonna help everyone make
better employment and careerdecisions that will lead to kind
of on the front end, attractingthe right people for your
organization, and again, mostimportantly, retaining them on
the back end. You know, I know Imentioned it several times, but
(11:01):
I can't stress it enough. It'sthose kind of unique
individualized conversationswhere you'll discover what truly
motivates your employees andenables you to learn kind of how
to maximize their potentialthroughout the course of their
career.
Adam Larson (11:12):
And when it comes to retaining employees, you
mentioned that it's more thanjust compensation. There's other
factors that are involved, and Ican imagine that stuff like
company culture is a huge partof that. Can we talk a little
bit about the importance ofmaking sure that your company
culture is in way that'sinviting and can include those
new employees as you're bringingthem in?
Steve Saah (11:30):
Sure. Well, I mean, culture is absolutely critical.
I think you have to vet that outon the front end when talking to
people to make sure that it'sgonna be a good fit. And so
oftentimes, particularly in jobdescriptions when we start
writing those, you tend to focuson the technical skills that are
required to do the job, but thenyou have to make sure that that
(11:53):
person is gonna be a long termfit, both within the team and
the organization. The otherthing that kind of comes into it
is there's just a lot of otherfactors that people are taking
into consideration today.
I know you're probably gonna aska question at some point about
hybrid and remote workopportunities because that's
just on the top of everyone'smind and it's just really an
(12:14):
ever shifting dynamic. So again,it goes, to me, it goes back to
those individual conversationsthat allow you to vet out what's
most important to an individualperson and how they're gonna fit
in with your organization.
Adam Larson (12:29):
Yeah, well, and let's talk about hybrid remote
work environments because whenCOVID happened, you suddenly
realize, hey, the accounting andfinance team doesn't necessarily
need to be in the same room. Wecan use these new technologies
and do things in a way that wecan come together. How do you
think that's impacted the hiringprocess, especially for
accounting and finance roles?Because, you know, some people
have moved back to total inperson, other people are just a
(12:50):
hybrid kind of thing, so it's ashifting environment for sure.
Steve Saah (12:54):
Well, as I mentioned, it's hard to have
this conversation withouttalking about hybrid, remote,
and office. And so I figured itwas coming up at some point.
Look, think it's a movingtarget. It's a continual
evolution, and that's going tojust most likely continue to ebb
and flow for the foreseeablefuture. On the one hand, you
have a fair number of notablecompanies that have kind of
(13:16):
started to implement thesereturn to the office policies
where they cite the need forpeople to connect more with one
another, collaborate and learntogether, help maintain that
corporate culture to go back toyour previous question, right?
And I think it's generally fairto say that more companies are
starting to require more peopleto come into the office a bit
more often. That's notnecessarily nine to five or five
(13:39):
days a week, but again, I thinkit's fair to say more companies
are looking to have more peoplecome into the office a bit more
often. On the other hand though,I don't think the majority of
people wanna be wedded to astrict schedule whereby they
need to be in the office everyday or even on a rigid schedule.
People now want autonomy, theywant flexibility, and it's not
(14:03):
just limited to where peoplework, but frankly, when they
work as well. So concepts suchas, you know, flexible
schedules, windowed work, that'sall part of the conversation and
probably will be for So quitesome to me, employers need to
both recognize that at least foraccounting and financial roles,
(14:24):
there's still a very competitivelabor market with the
unemployment rate often being aslow as one to 2% for any given
role in most markets around thecountry.
So you have to recognize thatpeople do have a lot of choices
on where they work. And again,that's especially true in
accounting and finance. Thatdynamic is gonna continue to ebb
and flow as each organizationand person needs to kind of find
(14:47):
the right balance between thoseextremes. But without question,
when you offer remote roles,hybrid roles, flexible windowed
work schedules, that also opensup the pool of talent that you
have access to, which cancertainly help you find the
right person for the long run.So it's an interesting dynamic
and I think one that we're goingto see again, kind of ebb and
(15:08):
flow for the foreseeable future.
Adam Larson (15:10):
Yeah, especially as, you know, different
industries make differentdecisions and the trends are
continue to go up and downdepending where you are. So it
definitely be interesting towatch. So when we think about,
you know, you mentionedtechnology, technology is
something that plays a huge rolein hiring a huge role in how we
run our organizations. You know,what role do you see kind of
technology and especially thingslike data analytics playing in
(15:33):
the future of hiring, especiallyaccounting and finance
professionals? It's definitely achanging trend.
Steve Saah (15:39):
Well, as you said, I mean, there's no question that
the industry is trendingtowards, more and more use of
data analytics and technology. Imentioned it earlier to me,
particularly all things AIrelated. And I think what we're
seeing in the market is thatwhile there's a lot of projects
like digital transformation,things that are really ramping
up, The challenge is againaround finding qualified
(16:01):
candidates quickly enough, andthen when you do, successfully
landing them is also tricky, asmany times they have competing
offers. So, you know, as I talkto our teams across the country,
I think clearly some of the morein demand technical skills are
in areas such as ERP systems.Cybersecurity is another hot
one.
(16:21):
I mentioned a moment ago,digital transformation. Again,
not to be repetitive, butcertainly any and everything
related to AI, right? Even somuch so that speaking of AI,
we're starting to see some newfunctional roles kind of
appearing in the market. So Idon't know if you've seen these
titles, Adam, but things like AIFinancial Analysts, AI Auditors,
(16:43):
AI Compliance Analysts. Andthese are all newly developing
roles where companies arelooking for folks that can use
the AI to help with dataanalytics and really help
organizations make betterinformed decisions.
So overall, I think all of thisleads to an incredibly exciting
time to be in the accounting andfinance space. While again, it's
(17:04):
ever evolving, there's noquestion that these trends
towards the use of technologyare going to continue.
Adam Larson (17:09):
So do you think this is going to attract people
who are not traditionalaccountants, people who didn't
come up through the big four anddid their CPA and did the big
four and then moving over?Because it seems like that with
these new types of roles, don'tnecessarily have to have a
traditional accountingbackground.
Steve Saah (17:23):
Yeah, I think there's actually is becoming a
very blurred line between, asyou said, the traditional
accounting, the traditionalfinance jobs and technology
jobs. And so I think people thathave a hybrid background between
those two are really settingthemselves up for long term
success. There's going tocontinue to be more and more
(17:45):
demand for people that canbridge that gap between the two.
Adam Larson (17:49):
Yeah, and I think it'll be a good way to kind of
bridge between the differentteams as well. Because if you
have, you have your finance teamand then you have your IT team
and they don't necessarily meshunless they're like, hey, we
need to do our ERP system andthen suddenly everybody gets
involved. But I think it'll bemore a day to day thing where
it'll be a nice bridge, like yousaid. And I think that's a real
(18:09):
win for the organization.
Steve Saah (18:10):
Yeah. You see that a lot in organizational structures
too as more IT technology teamsare reporting up through the CFO
function, right? And so I thinkyour point is spot on with that,
Adam.
Adam Larson (18:23):
Yeah, and I yeah, it seems to seems to flow better
and work better from anorganizational standpoint and
the finance team, the CFO needsto understand what's happening
with the technology becausethey're making sure it's getting
taken paid for. And so I thinkthat there's a good connection
there. It makes sense.
Steve Saah (18:39):
Without question.
Adam Larson (18:41):
Yeah. So when we think about continuous
upskilling, we've mentioned alot of different things
throughout this conversationabout what the teams need to do
to prepare themselves. Maybe wecould talk like specifically,
what are some good upskilling?What are ways that they can
especially employers can supporttheir teams when I'm trying to
upskill and especially with allthe changes that are happening?
Steve Saah (19:01):
Sure. Well, I think upskilling and reskilling kind
of go hand in hand. I think theycan both be great ways to kind
of make your existing workforcenot only better at their jobs,
but it provides them withfrankly a lot more career
satisfaction, and that leadsorganizations retaining all that
institutional knowledge thatgoes hand in hand with a great
(19:24):
retention strategy. I do thinkit's maybe important for your
audience to kind of call out thedifference between upskilling
and reskilling, because to me,they're both really important
and can be utilized in somewhatsimilar but subtly different
ways as well. And so upskillingreally involves expanding an
employee's skillset so that theycan advance along their current
(19:47):
career path.
So as job requirements evolve,as technology evolves, I think
upskilling allows your currentemployees to just gain more and
more new abilities andcontribute more in their current
roles and stay relevant.Reskilling is where you're
teaching existing employeescompletely new skills so that
(20:08):
they can move into differentroles within the organization.
And so this allows very, verytalented workers with limited
growth opportunities in theircurrent jobs to reposition
themselves in the organization.And so what that does for the
organization is it gives yourbusiness the ability to retain
those valued team members whohave already proven themselves
in previous roles, but then moveinto something completely
(20:30):
different. And so to me, inorder to kind of have a really
positive net impact on yourentire workforce, those
programs, both upskilling andreskilling, need to be tailored
to your specific business needs.
So to me, the first step is tostep back and analyze your
(20:51):
business strategy, identifywhere those skills gaps exist to
really kind of meet both shortterm, medium, and longer term
objectives. And so once you'vedone that, and a lot of times
when you're going through thatskills gap assessment, I think
the technical skills are usuallythe first things to spring to
mind. But going back tosomething we talked about a few
(21:14):
moments ago, don't forget aboutsoft skills such as
adaptability, problem solving,communication. And so when you
know where those skills gapsare, you can then choose from a
wide range of tools to kind ofhelp shape that training
program. So those could bethings like mentoring programs,
job shadowing, online learning,attending network events and
(21:36):
conferences, etcetera.
I mean, to me, all those typesof things help people
continually evolve and justdevelop their skill sets for the
future.
Adam Larson (21:43):
So what would you say to a leader who is having
trouble finding the time for histeam to reskill or upskill? It
seems like that with a lot oforganizations tighten their
belts, they, you know, they'vebeen restructuring. There's a
lot of restructuring, which I'msure the reskilling plays into a
part of that. But they say, Hey,my team is understaffed. We
don't have time to upskill.
What would your advice be tothem to try to find that time?
(22:03):
Because it is important.
Steve Saah (22:05):
Invest the time, right? You can find the time if
you place the priorities on it.But to your point, you know, too
often times you're focused onthe here and now and the job and
the tasks and everything that'sin front of you. But if you
don't invest your time and yourpeople today, the reality of it
is there are other organizationsout there that are going to look
(22:28):
to bring those folks on board totheir teams, And that creates
opportunities for people. So ifthe opportunity is not within
the four walls of yourorganization and individuals on
your teams don't feel as thoughthey can progress their career,
that there's not an opportunitydown the road for them, they're
going to find it elsewhere.
And so ultimately I think youneed to step back and evaluate
(22:49):
and ask yourself, is it betterto retain that institutional
knowledge and develop peoplethat have been with us for X
number of years versus having togo out and hire from the
outside? And I think thatthere's pros and cons to both as
always, but I think most peoplewould agree, especially as
individuals start to get moreand more tenure under their
belts within an organization,that that institutional
(23:11):
knowledge, experience, therelationships, the knowledge of
the business that people have,that's one of the hardest things
to get. And so by investing inpeople and finding that time
today, you can make sure thatyour retention is at the levels
that you really want it to be.
Adam Larson (23:26):
Yeah, it seems like a more of a depending on what
your organization needs andwants are is how you would
handle that situation,basically. And I suppose that
it's, like you said, you'regoing to invest the time that,
you know, if it's reallyimportant, you're going to
invest that time. And I think itcomes back to, you know,
leadership and structuring howyour organization is run.
(23:47):
Because if everybody feels likethey don't have time for
anything, well, maybe there's abetter way to do what you're
doing to make sure that theyfeel like they have that time.
Steve Saah (23:53):
Absolutely. That's a good point.
Adam Larson (23:55):
So Steve, we've been talking a lot about from
the employer's perspective. Sowhat if you're listening to this
podcast and you're a candidate?What are ways that you can help
stand out? Because, you know,you want to stand out, you want
to get yourself seen, you wantto get yourself in front of the
hiring manager so you can havethat conversation that we've
been talking about.
Steve Saah (24:10):
Yeah. I mean, think as we were talking about a
moment ago with everythingthat's evolving, the use of
technology and so forth, there'sno question, it's a great time
to be in the accounting andfinance field. Again, I mean, I
think there's high demand in themarket, Unemployment rates for
accountants and financialprofessionals are near historic
lows. There's a lot of skillsgaps that need to be filled. So
(24:34):
all of it bodes well for someonewho's looking for a new role.
In general, I think when you'rethinking about how to stand out,
I'd recommend by just startingto do an honest assessment of
your marketability. What areyour biggest strengths? What do
you need to improve upon inorder to position yourself as
the best candidate out there?That takes some time and effort.
(24:54):
But again, I think it'sparamount to your success to
kind of put and keep your careertop of mind.
So speak with your mentors, gettheir perspectives, focus on
developing more of your softskills, as we had talked about
previously, and then be sure andutilize the power of networking
and social media, particularlyLinkedIn. So if you think about
(25:14):
what's a hiring manager'sinitial impression of you when
they look at your profile,because trust me, they will. Are
you using a high quality photoof yourself? Are you well
connected to other people withinyour field? Are you posting on
LinkedIn with some degree ofregularity showing kind of both
what you're involved inprofessionally as well as
personally throughout thecommunity?
(25:34):
The other big one that a lot ofpeople tend to forget about is
have you recently updated yourresume so that if and when,
right? If the right opportunitycomes up, when the right
opportunity presents itself, areyou ready to go? And one tip
around that though is I'd highlyrecommend, highly, highly
recommend not using the sameresume for every role. Tailor it
(25:58):
to the specific position, thespecific company, the specific
industry to which you'reapplying and highlight the
things that that organization isfocused on. As I like to say,
you kind of, you want to makesure that you're applying for
the job and the position thatyou're applying for.
Invest the time, do thatupfront, and it just makes a
huge difference. Those littletweaks can really set you apart.
Adam Larson (26:19):
So essentially you'll have multiple copies of
your resume with wordsmithingdepending on the role you're
giving in, Correct. Basically,
Steve Saah (26:26):
Big picture, it's all the same, but there's little
tweaks that tailor it to thatspecific role at that specific
organization in that specificindustry is going make a
difference. It really will.
Adam Larson (26:37):
So where would somebody look to say, Hey, I
want to make sure I have theright wording on my resume. Are
there services out there? Arethere websites they can go to to
say, Hey, these are the besttypes of words to use within
your descriptions and stuff likethat?
Steve Saah (26:49):
Well, I mean, think probably the one that most
people would gravitate towardstoday would be ChatGPT. It's
really easy to kind of put yourresume in there and ask it
simply, how does this line upwith the job description and the
company? But I think just being,again, kind of intellectually
honest with yourself and goingalmost bullet point by bullet
(27:12):
point through the description,as well as your resume, and
asking yourself how manyparallels are there between the
two? What are the things thatyou can highlight that you've
done in your career that thisemployer has tended to focus on
in their job description, thatare relevant to them, that are
in alignment with the technologyand the software that they use.
(27:33):
It's a pretty straightforwardexercise.
My point is, oftentimes,particularly with the way people
can apply today by going onlineand just click, click, click,
click and apply to three or fourjobs that fast, that's not what
you want to do. You want to makesure that you take a few
moments, step back, and again,see how closely your background
experience will align with whatit is that they're looking for.
Adam Larson (27:56):
No, that's good advice. Thanks. Thanks, Steve.
So, you know, as we kind ofwe've talked about a lot of
things, but I can't help wecan't help but address, you
know, the elephant in the roomright now, you know, especially
in The U. S, you know, with thechanging of the president and
everything that's happening andthe economic climate is
shifting.
There's a lot of uncertaintyeverywhere and it's shifting the
(28:16):
way like people are looking atThe US, the way, you know,
organizations are working withThe US. You know, how is that
going to impact the hiringtrends for accounting and
finance professionals?
Steve Saah (28:25):
Well, I think we've touched on this as we kind of
started the conversation, Adam,but maybe it's a good way to
wrap up and just kind of bringit full circle. There's no
question that there's a greatdeal of uncertainty given the
current climate. That said, asI've mentioned, you know, kind
of along the way throughout theconversation, there's also no
question that there's stillhiring to be done for critical
roles. And I think those withthe most in demand skill sets
(28:48):
are going to have a number ofopportunities to choose from. We
kind of see that day in and dayout with candidates that we're
working with as they often havemultiple offers, and then
they're actually gettingcounteroffered by their current
employer when giving notice.
So I think big picture, thistricky dynamic is going to
continue for a bit longer. Butin a recent survey we did, about
(29:08):
65% of the hiring managers thatwe surveyed indicated that they
were hiring for new roles, whilejust over 30% indicated that
they were only hiring forrecently vacated roles, meaning
there's still a lot of nethiring to be done specifically
in accounting and finance.However, out of that whole
(29:29):
population, 93% of them reportedchallenges in just finding
skilled talent right now. So tome, kind of the net net of it
all is that while to your point,and again, I wholeheartedly
agree, there is a lot ofuncertainty. There's still
hiring that needs to be done.
I think individuals inaccounting and finance still
have a lot of opportunities tochoose from. There's a lot of
(29:51):
exciting things happening in theaccounting and financial world
right now, and that's going tocontinue for quite some time. So
it's a good place to be.
Adam Larson (29:59):
It is a good place to be. Well, Steve, I really
appreciate you taking time outof your busy schedule to speak
with us and sharing yourexpertise with our audience
today.
Steve Saah (30:06):
Yeah. It's always great being on with you, Adam.
Announcer (30:10):
This has been Count Me In, IMA's podcast, providing
you with the latest perspectivesof thought leaders from the
accounting and financeprofession. If you like what you
heard and and you'd like to becounted in for more relevant
accounting and financeeducation, visit IMA's website
at www.imanet.org.
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