Ep. 328: Shawn Kanungo - Unlocking Career Growth by Disrupting Yourself and Leveraging AI

Ready to shake up your thinking about disruption? In this episode, Adam Larson sits down with keynote speaker and bestselling author Shawn Kanungo for a refreshingly candid conversation about why disruption isn’t a dirty word and how it can actually spark growth in your career and life. Shawn Kanungo shares personal stories, practical tactics, and bold advice on embracing change, overcoming imposter syndrome, and even learning from the jazz-like improvisation of life’s unexpected moments. They chat about the real power of AI, why boldness is built one small “receipt” at a time, and how leaders can foster cultures where experimentation thrives. If you’re looking for honest inspiration and tangible steps to disrupt yourself before something else does, this episode is for you.

Episode Transcript

Adam Larson (00:05):
Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Count Me In. I'm
Adam Larson, and in today'sepisode, we're tackling the real
meaning of disruption and how itcan actually become your
greatest advantage. I'm joinedby keynote speaker, best selling
author, and innovationstrategist, Shawn Kanungo, who's
helped countless organizationsand individuals rethink and
reinvent themselves. Together,we dig deep into why disruption

(00:28):
isn't just about new technologylike AI.
It's about shifting mindsets andembracing boldness and seeing
every change as an opportunity.Sean shares practical advice for
disrupting yourself, buildingresilience, and creating teams
that aren't afraid to takerisks. We also touch how
identity, trust, and making timefor growth play crucial roles in
navigating disruption, not justat work, but in your life. If

(00:51):
you're ready to look at changein a whole new way, stick
around. This conversation is foryou.
Let's jump right in. Well, Sean,thank you so much for coming on
the podcast. I'm really excitedto have you here. It was great
to meet you in Phoenix, and wekinda started a conversation
there. And I wanted to bring youon the podcast so we can

(01:12):
continue talking aboutdisruption.
And so I figure a place we couldkinda start is what is, like,
what does disruption mean toyou, and why are we talking
about it? And maybe that we canstart there because for those
who maybe not didn't hear youand haven't heard you talk about
it before, I figured we couldstart there.

Shawn Kanungo (01:28):
Yeah. Well, first of all, you know, I'm I'm really
excited to be on the pod. Youknow, I've been listening to a
ton of different episodes, and,you know, you're putting in tons
of work. So, you know, rate,review, subscribe if you
actually got this far after thisintro on this pod because Adam
is putting in the work. Youknow, disruption is something
that I spent my entire career inhelping organizations not only
disrupt their industries, butultimately disrupt themselves.

(01:48):
And to me, disruption is simplysomething coming out of nowhere
that changes the gamecompletely. It changes the
status quo. Now that can be atechnology, but it can be, you
know, our client expectations.It could be it could be an
individual. It's somethingcoming out of nowhere and
changing the game fundamentally.

(02:10):
And the reason why I'vededicated my life to studying
this idea of disruption is Ibelieve that this is one of the
greatest ways of creatingopportunity. I really believe
that disruption is not anegative, but it's really a
positive. And we can leveragedisruption to create new
possibilities and opportunitiesand reimagine our careers and
our industries. And, you know,when we when when I was at the

(02:32):
IMA Conference, recently inScottsdale, I talked about AI
being a disruptor and thatcreating opportunities. And so
so that's why I fell in lovewith the idea of disruption.

Adam Larson (02:43):
Yeah. It's funny when you when you hear the word
disruption, it's always got thisnegative connotation. Right?
You're like, it's disruptinglike, oh, the children are
disrupting my meeting. You know,this thing's disrupting my life.
And so, you know, how do youturn disruption from a negative
to a positive? Because a lot oftimes, disruptions are things
that we don't want to happen.But what you're saying is it's
kind of a it can be a goodthing.

Shawn Kanungo (03:05):
Well, naturally, when something changes, our
initial instinct is to thinkabout, you know, what went
wrong, or we're trying to dealwith we're trying to be more
risk averse. And I know thisaudience, you know, we have some
incredible accountants. It'sinteresting because we are wired
to be risk averse. And to me,one of the beautiful things

(03:28):
about disruption is that itresets the paradigm. It resets
the entire game.
And I think what it allows us todo is to see a industry or an
opportunity in a fundamentallynew light. And that's what I
love about disruption. We canthink about something coming out
of nowhere and changing thegame. Now we have to you know,

(03:50):
we can think about it as anegative saying, you know,
something's coming in, and let'stake AI as a disruptor. It's
something coming in and saying,wow.
This this this technology is ischanging my role. It's changing
how I do things. And and, youknow, what about all the things
that I've learned? And and thinkabout all the credentials that
I've gotten around thisparticular area of expertise.

(04:11):
But then you can also look at itas a positive and say, wow.
Take a look at this technologyand look at what we can create.
Look at what we can build. Lookat the the number of
opportunities that we can nowhave because of this technology.
So it's completely a mindset atthe end of the day. And to me,
that's why I don't think thatdisruption is just about
technology, but it it's actuallyabout flipping our mindsets and

(04:34):
how we look at the world.
And, you know, I know it'sinteresting. When when when
you've talked to other, youknow, other guests throughout
this podcast, you know, thisthis concept of disruption has
come up a ton, and and maybesome folks have have framed it
as change. But I wanna ask youbecause you know your audience
so well. Why is it, and this isin my experience, especially

(04:56):
when it comes to accountants, isthat we're we're a little bit
more risk averse, that we'rewe're a little bit more
resistant to change, especiallyamongst this group. So I'd love
to know why is that?

Adam Larson (05:08):
I think part of it is is that element of control,
especially for accounting andfinance folks. They they want
control. They like to look atthe numbers. They like to
understand where things aregoing. And when disruptions
come, you have to adjust thatcontrol.
You have to adjust what you'redoing. And I think it's scary.
Disruption is scary. Change isscary. And I think a lot of
times when I've when I've spokento different folks about change,

(05:30):
disruption, it always startswith yourself, looking
internally at yourself.
And so, like and that as youwere talking, it made me think
about, you know, how many timesthat we have to disrupt
ourselves first before we cansee change around us. And and,
like because if you don't if youdon't look internally first, you
can't help your team. You know,if you're not looking internally
and looking at emotional like,your your emotional quotient,

(05:54):
like, looking at how you how yourespond to things and look at
different things, unless you'relooking at yourself and doing it
first, you can never help yourteam get anywhere. Like, was
just talking to somebodyyesterday about a burnout. And I
was like, well, how can teamshow can leaders help teams?
And she's like, well, first, youhave to look inside yourself.
And I think a lot of things goback to having the emotional
intelligence to understand whereyou are and then being able to

(06:16):
move beyond that and grow. Andso, like, when you're looking
at, like, how and and so how canyou how could how do and so what
I wanted to ask you is how do weget there? Like, how do we say,
okay. How can I disrupt myself?
How do I start disrupting myselfso that I can understand the
disruptions that are havingaround me and and balance that?

Shawn Kanungo (06:33):
Yeah. So to me, disruption is you can't disrupt
yourself all at once. I believeI believe that this idea of, you
know, going down the mountain,this idea of going from a 100 to
zero. And to me, that's theability to go from a 100 to
ninety, ninety to 80, andcontinuously going down the

(06:54):
mountain to to reimagine, toreinvent, to be a rookie again.
I think there's a number ofstrategies that we can take to
go off and do that.
Number one, it's really tryingto adopt this rookie mindset.
It's trying to come in you know,remember the first time that you
came into a job. You're learningthe processes. You're learning

(07:16):
the people in fundamentally newways, and and it's approaching
that day as a rookie. You'rejust hungry.
You're absorb absorbingeverything. And when you're
twenty, thirty, forty years in aparticular industry, that's
tough to do again. But in orderthe way to do that is start at
the bottom again. Take a day oror take a week where you are you

(07:37):
are resetting and you are goingthrough your onboarding process
again. Or ask the rookies onyour team or the juniors on the
team and actually do the workthat they are doing.
It's it's it's actuallyembracing ideas from the people
that just joined your team orpeople that are not from your

(07:57):
team. I believe that the mostinnovative leaders today are the
ones that, and the ones that candisrupt themselves, are the ones
that can say, hey. I don't knowor help me. It's another way of
disrupting yourself. Another wayof disrupting yourself is taking
a process that you know todaythat is tried and true, that you
have been you know, it's it'sbeen working within your

(08:19):
business and and start anexercise where you can say, let
let's say I started this processfrom zero today knowing
everything that I know about thetools and technologies that are
out there.
How would I reimagine thisprocess? How would I reinvent
this process? And what you mightfind is that there's a
completely new way ofreimagining how you do things,

(08:42):
because you have a newtechnology or a new tool or a
new approach of doing things.And so starting from zero is
such a great way of disruptingyourself. And so these are just
some tactics of how to do that.
Now from a from a if you wannaget really real when it comes to
disrupting yourself, you have totackle this idea of status. And
status is ingrained in our DNA.It's ingrained in everything

(09:04):
that we do. We we we developthese credentials, this
expertise, this knowledge at theend of the day, and that has
given us incredible status. Todisrupt yourself means you have
to disrupt your own status.
You have to disrupt your ownego. You have to be able to let
go. It's funny because my nextbook is really about this idea
of disrupting your own status.It it's a small part of my

(09:26):
chapter two in my in my lastbook, but I'd love this idea of
how do you continuously reinventyour own identity. And I believe
that the greatest disruptorsultimately have this, like,
identity die diversification.
They're able to tap intodifferent identities, and it
allows you to disrupt yourself.Because when you're when you are
able to tap into otheridentities, you're not so

(09:48):
attached to this identity thatyou have been building up for so
long. And so I I love that idea.

Adam Larson (09:55):
It's funny you were saying that. As you were talking
about becoming a rookie again,it made me think about, how so
many seasoned professionals wewe have an ego to us. Like, when
you when you've been in theindustry for ten, twenty,
thirty, forty years, you'relike, I know my stuff. And so
the idea of putting your egoaside and becoming a rookie
again, it must be reallydifficult for people to do that,

(10:16):
especially the longer you'vebeen in an industry.

Shawn Kanungo (10:19):
Yeah. You get comfortable. Right? I had this
great partner. I used to work atDeloitte for twelve years, had a
great partner, and he would lookat a particular industry, and he
would say he he he he would hewould say this line that in a
particular industry that isnostalgic, that has been running
like a well oiled machine foryears and decades, he would say
that those executives have gonefat, rich, and lazy.

(10:42):
They've gotten comfortable, andthey've created incredible
amount of status and wealth andsuccess, and that is actually
the most dangerous spot to be.The most dangerous spot to be is
when you're at the top of themountain and you don't wanna
change. The most dangerous spotto be is when you are accepting
the status quo. And that's whyin this world where everything
is changing incredibly quickly,we have to be able to have this

(11:05):
muscle around disrupting yourourselves because that's when we
become that's when we becomemediocre, and so you have to be
able to build this muscle ofdisrupting yourself.

Adam Larson (11:17):
And, also, it it it connects back to that whole
you're saying having differentidentities. Don't let yourself
be lost in one identity, and Ithink that happens the longer
you do something. Like, Iremember when when I was in my
twenties, I was I was doing alot of music at different at
different places, and I thoughtof myself as only that music
person. Right? But then oncethat stuff stopped and I started

(11:37):
doing other things, I hadtrouble changing from Adam the
musician to Adam this or Adamthat.
And so as, like, in as I'vegotten different hats, I've
learned to just like, hey. I'mstill Adam. I just have this hat
on or this hat on this day. AndI think it's looking at it less
of Adam the this. It's just I'mjust Adam, and I'm Adam who's
doing this today, and I'm Adamwho is doing that tomorrow.

(11:59):
And and I think that's a betterway to look at it. And maybe you
can share a little bit howyou've had to kinda unlearn and
and change and put thosedifferent hats on.

Shawn Kanungo (12:07):
Well, know, I think it I love that example,
and, I need to go back to theAdam musician. And and, you
know, it's you know what? What'sbeautiful actually and I'll
answer the question, but, youknow, it's interesting how your
musical talents have sort oftranslated to what you're doing
here in podcasting. And the thethe technical I'm not I'm not I

(12:31):
I I don't understand podcastingas well as you do, but the
technical aspects of audio andproduction have translated so
well to what you're doing herein podcasting. And I would
assume that a lot of that is iscarrying over, and and the skill
sets and the gifts that you havebeen given around music have
transferred over.

(12:52):
Correct?

Adam Larson (12:52):
Yeah. I mean, I was my undergrad degree is actually
in audio production andrecording. And so, like, I've
been able to put those hats onand and say, hey. I can podcast.
And and that idea of producingis you're taking all these,
like, fifty, sixty, 70 differenttracks and putting it down into
one single, you know, right leftstereo track that somebody can

(13:13):
listen to and enjoy.
And I think that's what I love.And I also am a huge fan of jazz
music. And I love that's I thinkthat's why I love conversation
and podcasting because it's likethat that improvisation of when
it's your turn to play, youknow, you're just figuring out
those notes and and seeing whatcomes in that moment. And when
you're playing when you're insync with a with a band and you

(13:34):
the music that comes out thatwasn't rehearsed that you just
kind of seen what happens inthat moment, that's and that's
what I love about about havingthese conversations is is the
jazz of it all, of that of notknowing what you're gonna say
and and how am I gonna respond.I don't know.
But as it's coming, then it justcomes, and and and it's amazing
to see how all that how thatsynchronization comes together.

Shawn Kanungo (13:55):
Yeah. It yeah. No. It certainly is beautiful.
And by the way, going back toyour question, you know, I think
at a at a very young age, getquestions like, what do you
wanna be when you grow up?
And I I'm guilty of this when Iask my kids too. What do you
wanna be great when you grow up?And we attach this identity to
the work. Right? It is soingrained in what we do.

(14:16):
We don't ask kids, who do youwanna be? We ask them, what do
you want to be? And when we growup and we go to school and we go
into university, we say, what doyou want to do in your career?
On LinkedIn, it shows you whatyou do. And I think the more
that we detach ourselves fromwhat we do and attach ourselves

(14:39):
to why we do it or our missions,that to me is one of the ways
that you can have identitydiversification.
For me, you know, my mission isto empower individuals to be
bolder. Now I can do thatthrough content. I can do that
through books. I can do thatthrough education. I can do that
through different means.
But I don't wanna be tied tojust one thing, but I can still

(15:02):
have a a a north star of, youknow, why I do what I do. And,
you know, Adam, it's reallyinteresting. Like, over the last
number of months, I've beengoing to a lot of funerals. I
don't wanna get too deep onthis. We were already getting
deep on this podcast.
Yeah. And I have this I've hadthis realization just going to
all these funerals with mymother. A lot of her friends are

(15:23):
are are are passing away. AndI've been sitting there with my
mother and listening to everyonedeliver these eulogies and and
and saying nice things to thepeople that died. And and one of
the most remarkable things aboutlistening to everyone and how
they talked about the the personthat just deceased is that they

(15:45):
never mention anything to dowith their status.
They never really mention theirjobs. They really never mention
their accomplishments. Theynever really mention their
knowledge, the fact that theygot their corner office or
whatever it might be. What theytalk about is how they made them
feel. They talk about the funnystories that they've had.

(16:06):
They talk about how this personcreated value in their
relationships or in theircommunity at the end of the day.
The achievements, theaccomplishments, all the things
that we're thriving and strivingtowards are not even mentioned.
And so at the end of the day,that stuff actually really
doesn't matter. What reallymatters is how are you creating

(16:27):
value for yourself and others.And I don't wanna get too
philosophical here, but it'slike at the end of the day, what
you do doesn't really matter.
It's it's really, you know, howyou make people feel. And I
think this is such a great wayof going through life because it
allows you to detach yourselffrom the actual work and allows

(16:50):
you to take more risks. Itallows you to to try more
experiments. It allows you toembrace disruption. When so when
comes something comes at you,you're not so attached to this
expertise and this knowledgethat you've gained over the last
number of years, and you're ableto play with it and experiment
with it and and to do morethings with it.
So I guess in the grand schemeof life, it's it's a it's such

(17:11):
an important thing to rememberthat that that, you know, the
reason why you do things is somuch more important as to what
you actually do.

Adam Larson (17:22):
Mhmm. I really like that. And, you know, you
mentioned funerals and talkingabout a disruptor, grief. Grief
is one of the biggest disruptorsthat can happen in our lives.
But I think going back to whatyou were saying, like, where
where when people are when whenyou're at a funeral, you're
talking about, like, what theyhow they made you feel and the
fun things you did together.

(17:42):
When you're in those moments andyou're hearing those things
about, especially if you'reclose to whoever passed away,
you start to it really disruptsyour thinking and kind of puts
in perspective what's reallyimportant in life.

Shawn Kanungo (17:54):
Yeah.

Adam Larson (17:55):
And so when you get to that moment yeah.

Shawn Kanungo (17:59):
Yeah. Exactly. You you, you know, tying this
back to this idea of innovation,you know, it's interesting.
There's this during the RomanEmpire, there used to be this
thing called a Roman triumph.After Rome's military victories,
the successful general wouldparade down the street in
spectacular fashion, showcasingall the spoils of war, gold,

(18:22):
exotic animals.
It was an incredible parade. Andat the back of the chariot,
there would be a slave. And thesole job of the slave would be
to whisper in the ear of thegeneral. Now this was the
highest this was the mostimportant day for the general.
This was the day that bestowedthe most status to the general.
This was the day that every kid,every person in that crowd would

(18:44):
love to have, to be at the at atthis moment when the general was
having his parade, and they justcan't you know, came back from
this incredible victory. And thesole job of a slave would be to
whisper in the ear of thegeneral, remember you will die.
It was to remind the generalthat life is short. It was to

(19:06):
remind the general at thehighest point of your life is
that you will die. And it to me,that's such a beautiful thing
because it's a reminder that,you know, tomorrow is not given.
And it's a reminder that youhave to actually continuously
disrupt yourself. You have tocontinuously innovate because,
yeah, tomorrow is not given. AndI think that's such a beautiful

(19:28):
moment where you're at the peakof your powers, and it's a
reminder that, yeah, it's itcould be taken away tomorrow. So
that's why you always have to bein the mud. You always have to
experiment.
You always have to innovate. Youalways have to, see what's
coming at you because tomorrowis not promised.

Adam Larson (19:47):
So how do we get to that place of boldness? Because
sometimes people are afraid tobe bold because maybe because of
things that they're doing withthemselves and they may feel
like an impostor or they feellike I'm not ready to be there,
but we kind of need thatboldness to do what we're
talking about.

Shawn Kanungo (20:04):
Yeah. You know, the world is the world the
entire world was built byimpostors. The the idea that I
wrote this book called The BoldOnes, and in the book, I do this
deep dive of individuals thatreally disrupted their

(20:25):
industries. And the one insightthat I got researching all these
Bold Ones is that every singleone of them did it scared. You
know, we have this idea that allthese incredible disruptors have
this incredible confidence, andthey're going into all these
industries, and they're andthey're and they're they're
remaking their careers and theirjobs and their industries when

(20:46):
the reality is is that they didit scared.
And to me, the way that youbecome bold is you can't do this
overnight. It's a muscle thatyou build every single day.
Boldness is just made up ofreceipts. It's waking up every
single morning and saying, hey.How do I try that new AI tool
that that guy was talking about?
It's waking up every singlemorning and say, hey. How do I

(21:06):
have that difficult conversationwith a colleague that I've been
waiting to have? It's waking upevery single morning and saying,
hey. I would love to start thatnew project, that new
initiative. And boldness isbuilt up by receipts.
It's about coming in everysingle day and doing something
that's hard. And over time, youbuild this identity around
boldness. It's like going to thegym. When you go for the when

(21:27):
you go to the gym for the firsttime, when you don't identify
yourself as a fitnessenthusiast. You just went to the
gym on January 1.
But over time, as you build ahabit of going to the gym every
single day, at some point Idon't know when this happens,
Adam. But at some point, youwill identify yourself as a
fitness enthusiast. You will youwill identify yourself as a gym

(21:50):
bro. When do you become a gymbro? When does that happen?
Well, it happens when you go tothe gym every single day
consistently over time. And Ilove that idea of identity. When
do you identify yourself assomeone that is in this thing?
And it happens through receipts.It's hap and that's the same
thing with boldness.
The way that you that you becomebold is you do hard things every

(22:15):
single day, and at some point,you you see yourself as an
innovator. You see as yourselfas somebody that can do hard
things. That's that's howboldness is built. It's it's
through this practice ofcollecting receipts.

Adam Larson (22:28):
Well, it goes back to that that old adage, you
know, Rome wasn't built in aday. Right? It take it's little
it's the little things thatyou're doing each day that kinda
build over time like a snowballrolling down a hill. It may
start as a small little like agolf size ball, but if it keeps
rolling down the hill and theelements are perfect and it's
just enough mouth softness, theyou know, that snow will
continue to build and build andbuild and it before you know it,

(22:49):
it's this huge thing. But itdidn't start that way.
And I I Yeah. I think a lot oftimes we get lost in I wanna get
where Sean is, but you did theydon't realize all the small
steps you took to get where theplace where you are.

Shawn Kanungo (23:03):
Yeah. You know, it it actually reminds me of
what you mentioned before aboutyour journey, you know, going to
school under you know, being asavant when it comes to audio
and music and, you know, allthese, you know, different
experiences that you had. Ibelieve that we all have to go
through this period ofexploration. There's an
incredible study that came out anumber of years ago in 2021.
These researchers wanted to theywanted to answer this one

(23:25):
question, which is one of myfavorite questions of all time,
which is what makes people soprolific?
What makes people so innovativeover a short period of time? And
they analyzed thousands ofartists and creatives and and
scientists, and they usedartificial intelligence to
analyze millions of pieces ofdata. And what they discovered
is that the commonality betweenall the people that were

(23:46):
prolific and the most innovativeduring a short period of time is
all of them went through thisidea of exploration. They went
through this this phase oftrying different domains, and
then at some point, theyexploited. At some point, they
took all those experiencestogether and they exploited.
A great example is, you know,Vincent van Gogh, you know,

(24:07):
through throughout his life, hehe tried all these ways of
perfecting, you know, how he dida painting. He's he's he's
perfecting you know, findingdifferent ways of of using
colors, finding different waysof doing different types of
portraits. And and at somepoint, he put it all together
and created his most prolificwork, which has actually

(24:28):
happened at the end of his life.I look at somebody like Judd
Apatow. Judd Apatow is a is agreat filmmaker.
He had this incredible run wherehe created all these incredible
movies, 40 year old virgin, andand and and the whole crew, Will
Ferrell, you might remember thatthat that that whole era. And
the way that he got to that erain creating all these prolific

(24:48):
films is he went through thisprocess of learning comedy. He
was doing stand up comedy. Hewas writing. He had this show
called, you know, Freaks andGeeks.
He had all these different waysof looking at comedy, and then
at some point, he put it alltogether. So you have to go
through this this period ofexploration in order to
ultimately exploit. And I wouldlook at my career as well. You
know, I spent, you know, mycareer in in accounting and then

(25:11):
in consulting and helpingorganizations with digital and
and and innovation. So I hadthat consulting side.
I also had some friends where weactually created films, and so
we would create short films thatwe would put into film
festivals. Then I was alsocreating my own digital app, so
learning how to code andlearning how to design. And, you

(25:32):
know, at some point, I put allthose things together through
film and consulting and and andstorytelling and digital into
what I'm doing right now, whichis really focused on, you know,
empowering people to be bolderreally through content, whether
it's through keynotes or orbrand deals or books or podcasts
or or media and entertainment.Like, the only reason why I was

(25:54):
able to do all of this isbecause I went through this
incredible period ofexploration, and many people
would say that this is a wasteof time. Many people would say
that, you know, you're you'reyou're floating or you're
you're, you're not focused.
But the the the idea is that youbuild all these gifts over time,
and then at some point, youexploit them. And and I think
that's what you see throughouthistory is that the greatest

(26:15):
folks, you know, that's whatthey did.

Adam Larson (26:17):
Yeah. Well and and it reminds me of something you
said in Scottsdale was workscared until you become scary.
And that's something that sat inthe back of my head. I remember
we talked about it when wechatted in in Scottsdale, and
it's something that's kind ofalways in the back of my head
when when I see something thatI'm about to do, and it's
something I've never donebefore. And I always remember

(26:38):
what you said, work scared untilyou become scary, so just keep
doing it.
Because there's a I think thatthat impostor syndrome that
people get when it when it comesto these things, it's we
suddenly start seeing ourselvesin a way that nobody else sees
us as. We're trying to putsomething on ourselves that was
either some negative thing orsome negative connotation that
we put upon ourselves, and we wetake that on as an identity as

(27:01):
opposed to saying, no. I am justwho I am, and I'm gonna move
forward. I might be scared, butI'm gonna do it boldly.

Shawn Kanungo (27:09):
Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Well, thank you for
for mentioning that line. Andand, you know, to me, that is
how you that's how you getthrough your fear.
You you you walk through it. Youwalk through the you know, we we
think that life is aboutavoiding or minimizing pain. We
think that life is about, youknow, avoiding these
uncomfortable situations, but,really, life is about walking

(27:32):
through the walking through theboulders and instead of avoiding
them. And that's there is nosort of unpaid path. The path is
always, you know, riddled withwith with obstacles, and you you
you just kinda have to figure itout.
And that's how you actually endup, you know, doing hard things
and building this muscle aroundboldness is is that you you walk

(27:54):
through the uncomfort. Andthat's what I mean by work
scared until you become scary.And and the story that I
mentioned is that, you know, I II meet people all the time, and
I met a person in particular.They said, you know, your part
presentation on AI scared me.And I said, you know, that was
not my intention.
I said, which part of thepresentation scared you? She
said, all the stuff that you'retalking about that AI can do,
like data analytics, like,that's part of my job. That's

(28:15):
part of my livelihood. And thenI I remember asking her a
question. I said, you know, youknow, how much time have you
actually invested in this space?
She's like, not much. I payplayed around with ChatGPT when
I came out. And I said, youknow, the reason why you are
scared is because you haven'tput in the work yet. Every
single person that I've seenimmerse themselves in this
technology that becomesproficient with it, builds a
muscle around it, not a singleperson has ever said that this

(28:39):
is gonna take their job. Everysingle person that immerses
themselves in the technologysays, you know, what can I
build?
What can I create? And my beliefis that if you are scared of
this technology or anything, myadvice is to work scared until
you become scary. And it's theidea of, like, how do you become
so proficient? You build such amuscle in this particular space
that you become dangerous. Youbecome indispensable in your

(29:01):
career.
My belief is that at the end ofthe day, the most valuable
person in an organization is theperson that is hungry, that is
curious, that is using all thesetechnologies, and that's the
most dangerous person in anyorganization. And that's how you
become truly, trulyindispensable is when you are
willing to sort of disruptyourself. That's the most

(29:24):
indispensable individual.

Adam Larson (29:29):
It makes it it makes me think of it just left
me. When when I think of AI,it's it's probably the biggest

(29:52):
disruptor that's happening, youknow, in our fields right now.
And there's something that I'vestarted saying, you know, when
you said, like, putting the timein, putting the time in. And
there's something I've startedsaying instead of saying, don't
have time for that or I haven'thad time for that, I've started
saying, I haven't made time forthat. I haven't made time for
that.
Because when you think about theamount of time in a day and

(30:13):
maybe you were you you know, youworked from nine to five, and
then from five to six, maybe youdid dinner, and maybe you spent
some time with the kids, andmaybe sat and watched TV for
three, four hours. That's thethings you made time for. You
know? And some of the thingslike if if you work a a regular
job, you know, you you have toyou have to make time for that
job. And if you have a family,you have to make time for the
family.
And if you wanna do other thingsand wanna learn things, you have

(30:34):
to actually make that time. Youhave to put the time in. And I I
I I think that's something I'vetried to get away from instead
of making the excuse of Ihaven't had time. I just say, I
recognize and admit I haven'tmade the time for that, and
maybe I should.

Shawn Kanungo (30:51):
I love this point that you're you're you're you're
you're making is that it's it'sreally about making the time. I
have never met someone that hassaid, I have too much time.
Please give me something to do.I everyone is always say my
mother got she's retired. She'slike, I don't have time.
I don't have time for this. Igotta do this. Gotta do We you

(31:13):
know, part of human nature isthat we like to fill ourselves
up with more things to do. Wejust figure it out. And there's
this there's this myth that nowthat we have AI, that it's gonna
help us do all these differentthings, that it's gonna it's
gonna make our lives moreconvenient, it's gonna allow us
to, you know, sit on the beachbecause it's working twenty four
seven.

(31:33):
That is never ever going tohappen. Because throughout
history, as we've hadtechnological advancements, as
we have created more convenienceand things have become faster
and more seamless and on demandand and twenty four seven, we've
just filled it up with morethings to do. And so this idea
that we're gonna have more timewith more technology is we just

(31:53):
fill it up with more stuff. Andmy belief is that, in order to
ultimately disrupt ourselves, wehave to be able to make some
time to learn these newtechnologies, to figure out how
these might apply to our lives.And the reality is is that you
might figure something out thatactually might save you some

(32:14):
time with that particularprocess.
And by the way, you're gonnafill it in with something else.
You're gonna fill it in withmaybe hopefully more strategic
work or or more time, you know,building relationships with your
stakeholders and your clients.But the idea the idea that
you're gonna save this time andyou're gonna you're gonna be
sitting on a beach drinkingmargarita, that has never
happened ever in human history.But I believe that one of the

(32:35):
best ways of of building thislearning mindset is every single
day just allocating some time tosay, hey. I'm gonna learn a new
tool, or I'm gonna I'm gonnaimprove my skills at this
particular thing.
And and once you build a habitaround doing that, you will
ultimately grow as an individualand grow in terms of your

(32:55):
career. It baffles me. And goingback to the AI thing, like, it
really baffles me that this isthe most important technology
that we have ever seen in ourlives up until this point. This
is the Internet times agazillion. This is going to
change every career, every role,every industry.

(33:17):
And it baffles me that we arethat many people are sitting
complacent and not figuring outhow we might apply this to our
processes and to our work. Atthe very least, this is a
tsunami that's coming at us. Weneed to start playing and at
least experimenting with it. Andthis is not for this is for

(33:41):
creating value for for not onlyfor ourselves, but every
everyone we work with. I thinkit's actually disrespectful to
not start figuring out how we'regonna apply this to our to our
businesses.

Adam Larson (33:54):
Yeah. I totally get that. There's not a day that
goes by that I'm not utilizingAI in some way. And and a lot of
times, the things I've beenusing it for were things that
were taking up my time or Ididn't actually have time for.
And now that the AI is doing it,I can okay.
That's getting done and now Ican apply that to this. And I I
feel like it's it's it's been asnowball kind of that there goes
that snowball analogy. And it'skind of been that snowball

(34:16):
effect or look, hey. Where can Iapply this here? Oh, can I use
this in this instance?
Oh, can I use this in thisinstance? And think one of the
things you said, like, we shouldbe, we should be, like, using AI
to automate a number of ourtasks so that we can focus our
mind on other things. Andbecause it's interesting because
there's that study that says,like, that, you know, sometimes
that I think correct me if I'mwrong. There's that study that

(34:36):
came out from MIT that wassaying that we're lose like,
we're losing some of ourcognitive thinking or something
like that. And I think sometimespeople are utilizing AI in the
wrong way where they're tryingto have AI do their their their
strategic thinking for them asopposed to as as opposed to
having it as a tool in theirtool belt and making them more
strategic.

Shawn Kanungo (34:55):
Yeah. Well, are you finding that? Like, are you
finding because, know, the studyand and and I agree with the
study is that if we use AI foreverything, we lose a little bit
of that of that deep thinking.And Yes. You know, we we we we
don't understand, you know, theproblem.
We don't you know, part of partof, like, wrestling with a
problem is by figuring it outand writing and rewriting or or

(35:16):
just, yeah, wrestling with it.And that's how we become
proficient at a particular skillor a topic. So I'd love to ask
you about that.

Adam Larson (35:24):
Yeah. I I have found that when I was first
starting to use it, I was justkinda asking it, like, questions
that I would normally thinkabout myself and just seeing
what they would say. And as I'vekind of evolved, I've had to
remind myself, hey. You need toreally sit and think about this.
And so what I've tried to do isbecome better at, like, that
prompt engineering that kind ofasking the right questions of AI

(35:46):
so that I am I'm doing thethinking as well and maybe using
it as a tool saying, hey.
What do you like? What if I wishI could think of an example
right now to to say to say howhow that's working, but I feel
that the better I get at askingAI the questions, the more
better I'm thinking about thingsbecause I'm asking the right
questions.

Shawn Kanungo (36:06):
Yeah. Yeah. I I I think that's the best way to
going about it. I think, youknow, to me, the the skill set
moving forward is is is notcoming up with the answers, but,
like, coming up with the rightquestions and wrestling with the
with with what those rightquestions are. You know, to me,
also, when it comes to AI, it'sit's, you know, I think a lot of
people look at it as from a froma from a content perspective or

(36:28):
from a ideation perspective.
And to me, the the real value istaking a look at these agentic
workflows and figuring out howdo we make things more seamless
in back end of what we do. Howdo we how do we connect, you
know, some of our systemstogether so that we can make
things more seamless? And Ithink it's taking a look at our
processes to make it easier. Andthat that that to me is the

(36:51):
ultimate promise of what, youknow, AI is gonna help us do is
is it's going to help useliminate some of those it's
gonna help us certainly ideate,but it's also going to eliminate
some of those things that we weactually should not be doing.
And I said something veryprovocative during the my
keynote at IMA in Scottsdale,which is I I believe that
everyone's job is to figure outhow to automate a 100% of their

(37:15):
job.
Let me repeat that so there's noconfusion. I believe everyone's
job is to figure out how toautomate a 100% of your job. You
should take a look at everysingle one of your processes,
every single one of your tasks,and say, can an AI do this
better than me? And if so, howdo we do this as cheaply and as

(37:36):
fast as possible so that we cankeep working on more strategic
stuff? And this idea that you'regonna automate yourself out of a
job, I've never heard that in myentire life that someone that
has automated a 100% of theirjob is is going to be irrelevant
in their firm or theirorganization.
It's impossible. You actuallybecome the most valuable person

(37:57):
in your organization by doingso. And so that to me is the
mindset that we have to have,and I think, hopefully, we will
realize that every job is gonnachange because of AI. And the
job that we look at today as anaccountant, as a finance
professional, it's it's it'sgonna be fundamentally different
in five years.

Adam Larson (38:18):
I was talking to a small business owner recently,
and, you know, we were we wereactually talking about the
subject of mentoring. Butafterwards, we were talking
about because she has a smallbusiness where she helps in she
helps consultant and does somedifferent things. And she was
mentioning how she was shestarted had started utilizing
Agentic AI for her marketing.And because in the past, because
she's a small business, shenever really had a, like, a a

(38:39):
full mark a full time marketingperson. It was just somebody
else who's other who was doingother things.
It became their job to do themarketing as well. And it what
it what it allowed her to do isit freed up that person to do
better at the job they're doingbecause they weren't doing two
or three purse people's jobs.And the using the AgenTic AI to
do the marketing, you know, hashelped her grow her business

(39:01):
because that's this is herconsulting business, so she's
able to get out there more inways that she wasn't able to
before because of because thatperson didn't have the time to
do those things or just didn'thave the knowledge. And so I
think people are afraid of theagentic AI because those are the
ones that are saying, oh, thoseare gonna take all our jobs, but
it's not. It's actually freeingpeople up to do better things.

Shawn Kanungo (39:21):
Yeah. Yeah. Love that. And I believe that today,
you know, in that particularexample, it it it, you know,
today, I believe that one personhas way more power than ever
before. We live in a world ofwhat I call infinite leverage.
So leverage is this idea of howcan you do more with less. And
to me, leveraging AI agents orthese large language models or

(39:44):
or or software or media, allthese things give us leverage.
And so the fact that one person,a solo entrepreneur, can do so
much more with way less isincredibly inspiring. And so I
think, you know, in this examplethat you actually gave up, it's
like she's now going off anddoing things and growing her

(40:05):
business. She might even have tohire more people because it's
like we're getting more businessin.
So the the punch line is is thatthis actually might create more
jobs while people are becomingmore productive. And I think the
the thing that we forget aboutbusiness is that in in in a 100%
of most businesses, you know, welive in a competitive nature.

(40:26):
So, you know, at some point,we're talking about AI. AI is
gonna be electricity. At somepoint, everyone is gonna have
it.
In fact, you know, for example,you know, a number and I don't
know when this is gonna drop,but, like, a couple weeks ago,
you know, ChatGPT rolled out GPTfive to everyone around the
world. And I think the mostinteresting part of them rolling

(40:47):
out GPT five to everyone aroundthe world is that everyone
around the world now has thelatest model for free. Everyone
has the smartest assistant inhuman history in their pocket
for free. And so what that does,it levels everyone up. You know,

(41:08):
I might be in a room where, youknow, I have someone here.
They got an IQ of, you know, onesixty. You got someone else
here, an IQ of this and that.And, you know, I try to I try to
be the dumbest person in in inevery room that I'm in. But the
reality is is that, guess what?The AIs are all smarter than
anybody else in this room, andeveryone's IQ has just leveled

(41:32):
up to the same level.
So what's the differentiatornow? Well, the differentiator
now is not about intelligence.It's really about boldness. It's
about hunger. It's aboutcuriosity.
It's about imagination. It'sabout, you know, collaboration
with others. That's thedifferentiator. It is no longer
intelligence. And I think theworld is now leveled up because

(41:54):
of AI, and I I think this is abeautiful thing.

Adam Larson (41:58):
It really has. And I we can't have this
conversation without thinkingabout, you know, leaders who
might be listening to thisconversation. And are there what
advice would you give tosomebody who say, you know, I
wanna create an environment, aculture in my organization
where, you know, experimentationfailure, they're like, they're
celebrated. And it's those arethings I want you to do because

(42:19):
I want us to grow as anorganization. And unless you're
failing, you can't really growsometimes because if you're
always the top like you said,the people the the executives
who've who've grown fat, who'vegrown lazy, who have just have
all the money, they're notreally the ones who are gonna go
and say, I'm gonna be a rookieagain and learn something new.

Shawn Kanungo (42:36):
Yeah. You know, I think in my in my experience
working with hundreds oforganizations and trying to
adopt the culture ofexperimentation and innovation,
I think there are a coupletraits that are required. Number
one is is really around thisidea of trust. And my belief is
that the the most innovativeorganizations in the world have

(42:57):
this deep trust amongst theirteam members. There is a care
amongst the people on the team.
And when you care about otherpeople, actually, you're more
willing to take a shot. You'remore willing to to take a risk
because you're working withother people that really care
about who you are. And my beliefis that, you know, now that we

(43:17):
work in a more remote, morevirtual world where we're seeing
people through Zoom and throughTeams and what what whatever
else, you know, which is it'sit's all great, and it is more
seamless, but that trust, thatrelationship can be missing
sometimes. And so I I believesome of the best ways of
actually creating an innovativeteam starts with that build
starts with that idea of trust.It's trusting each other that

(43:40):
you can go off and do hardthings.
That's that's number one. Numbertwo is really this willingness
to embrace risks within a team.It's a willingness to embrace
failure, and that could be a topdown strategy where we
incentivize people from goingoff and taking experiments. Now
that could be about, you know,sharing experiments more widely.

(44:01):
Like, I love teams that are,every week, you know, sharing
some of their experiments andsharing some of their learnings
and not only why they won, but,you know, why they failed and
not slapping somebody in thehand when something fails, but
really celebrating that.
With some, really coolorganizations that they've seen
is that they have a failureaward. They give that award, for

(44:22):
people that are actually goingoff and taking shots. And, you
know, I remember I remember thisone story where, you know, I was
leading a lot of our innovationinitiatives at Deloitte, and
truth be told, a lot ofexperiments that we were trying
were ambitious attempts, failedexperiments. And I remember I
was in a room where we had allthe senior leaders within the
firm, and one of the leaders,his name is Dallabore, he was

(44:44):
talking about all theinnovations that we were doing,
and he was really crediting meand my team. And, you know, I
was thinking to myself, youknow, a lot of stuff that we
tried were a lot of failedexperiments.
But I remember him askingeveryone in the room to stand up
and give me a standing ovationfor the work that we were doing.
And I I remember I was sittingthere, and I was and I didn't
understand at the time becauseI, you know, I I felt a little

(45:04):
embarrassed because it's likenot everything not everything
that we've done was really a awinner. And I didn't understand
it at the time, but I understandit deeply today, is that when
you incentivize people fortaking shots, they will go off
and take more shots. When yougive a standing ovation to
someone that is willing to takeattempts, they will go off and

(45:26):
take more attempts. And so thatis a culture that really
incentivize incentivizesexperiments.
And so this combination betweenbuilding trust of of marketing
and and sharing out thoselearnings to truly incentivizing
people, and it doesn't have tojust be through money, but it
could be through status. Itcould be about celebrations of

(45:50):
of you know, in different ways.That's how you start to build
the tenants of a culture ofinnovation, and that's what I've
seen with some of them winningorgan organizations around the
world.

Adam Larson (46:00):
Have you seen, teams like that you've worked
with? Have you seen teams thathave been able to kind of
balance that tension betweenremote work and in person work
and building teams in thosespaces where especially when
there's hybrid environmentswhere maybe there's some people
go to the office more and more alot of some people have remote
work more. You know? Andsometimes out of sight, out of
mind happens in those especiallywhen those things are first

(46:21):
happening. But I think we'vemoved beyond that a bit because
of COVID, because we've all weall kinda work from home a
little bit.
But how how have you seen kindof people balancing that
tension?

Shawn Kanungo (46:30):
You know, my my my observation is that it is
possible to create an innovativeenvironment in a remote world
only if you a if you starteddoing that at the first place.
Right? If if that's part of yourexisting culture and if it's
part of your DNA already and ifyou're you're a digital first

(46:52):
organization, that that I'veseen work. An example is I
remember talking to some of theleaders at Slack, and they have
been able to and and and and Ihave a friend that works at
GitHub. They they because thoseorganizations are sort of
digital first and that has beeninfused in their DNA, they've

(47:14):
been able to do that.
But I would say the vastmajority of organizations have
that's not in their DNA. Theythey they did come into the
office. That that was part oftheir culture, or they require
more collaboration. So so mostof the organizations in my mind
need to be in person and need tobe working together to work on

(47:36):
hard problems. I remember thisincredible story from Johnny Ive
when and Johnny Ive is one ofthe designers at you know, one
of the former designers at Appleand and credited for a lot of
Apple's innovations working withSteve Jobs.
I remember he was on stagerecently with at a Stripe
conference talking about thisidea of you know, they were

(48:00):
designing products for humans.And when you design products for
humans, you need to beincredibly in touch with what
people want and need. But alsoworking with a team, you have to
be in the right environment towork on these problems. So every
few weeks, what they would do isthey they would not only have in

(48:22):
person meet in person, but theywould actually meet at someone's
house. They would periodicallygo to people's houses.
And what was really fascinatingabout this this experience is
that, you know, when you invitesomebody, and I have this when
somebody comes to my house, thisthere's this incredible anxiety

(48:42):
right before someone comes toyour house. Like, I yell at my
kids. I'm like, guys, someone'scoming to our house. Make sure
it's clean. So we're allcleaning up, you know, before
our you know, before someonecomes.
We make sure that we make surethat we have a plan of, you
know, what we're gonna serve.There's an incredible amount of
care when someone comes intoyour home. And when you when you

(49:05):
invite people into your house,the the discussions that you
have, the energy that you have,the care that you have for for
each other is incredibly morerich than when you go to work.
You know, when someone comes toyour house, you know, we do this
in Canada. I I don't know ifthis happens everywhere in our
culture.
You know, you take off yourshoes. You you when you're
hosting, you you you ask them ifyou you want a drink. You ask

(49:29):
them, hey. You know? You know,we're we're starting, you know,
our appetizer lunch.
Like, there's an this level ofcare that happens. And what
Johnny Ive and his team found isthat when you are in someone's
environment, it fund the the theconversations and the energy
shift, and you're able to tocreate ideas that you may have

(49:49):
not been able to create at work.And so I guess the punch line is
is that some people like remotework, and then some people like
coming to the office. And thenthere's people that are like
working in people's homes, whichis the extreme version. And,
actually, each one can workdepending on what type of
business that you're in.

Adam Larson (50:10):
Yeah. And you have to kinda know your team. I I've
heard that example of of workingin people's homes, and that that
would be a huge disruptionbecause, you know, you working
in your own home, you know,that's fine. You can get used to
it. You it's your own space, butyou're bringing other people
outside into your personal spaceto work.
It's a it's a it's a differentdynamic. But I could also see
depending on what your industryis and what you're what you're

(50:31):
doing, that could be a really,really comforting but also
innovative space that you canactually have. I'm I'm like,
that'd be kind of fun actuallyto have, like, a, like, a
retreat where we go to people'shomes and have that kind of team
building thing there. That wouldbe interesting.

Shawn Kanungo (50:46):
You know, I I think it's I think it's an
incredible cheat code to havepeople at your house as a
leader, and you invite your teamover. And, you know, this idea
of status is, you know, when youinvite people over to your
house, you are you're serving.Right? When you invite people
over to your house, you areyou're supposed to be

(51:08):
hospitable, and you're supposedto serve your team members. And
I remember, you know, throughoutmy life when I when I went over
to homes of our leaders and theywould have get togethers.
You know, there there there'ssomething magical about seeing
some you know, your your yourpartners or your leaders, you

(51:28):
know, being the chefs, being thecooks, you know, getting people
the drinks. And and and youknow? Because at work, sometimes
it's the opposite. Right? You'reyou're you're you know, the
intern is getting the coffee,and and and, you know, they're
getting the the the pieces ofpaper.
And so it's it's I think it'sincredibly powerful, and it and
it is a great way of deepeningthe relationship and that trust

(51:50):
within within organization.

Adam Larson (51:53):
It also humanizes them because many times we see
them, oh, that's the CFO orthat's the CEO, and that's that
that's who that person is. Butthen you're like, oh, here's
that person, the husband or thatperson, the wife or that person,
you know, who's actually who'sgetting me a drink as opposed to
me getting them coffee. Like, it

Shawn Kanungo (52:11):
Yeah.

Adam Larson (52:11):
Turns the corporate dynamic on its head remembering
that we're all humans firstbefore we come into that office.
And that's a that's a hugereminder because we forget that
when we we work in hierarchicalsocieties and and organizations.

Shawn Kanungo (52:26):
And the punch line is is that why does that
have to be when you're at home?Right? As a leader, my belief is
that you can take that as theoffice. You should be the one.
And I try to practice this whenI'm, you know, with my teams.
It's like, I'm the one gettingthe coffee. Right? I'm I'm the
ones asking, you know, stayingcoming in the earliest, leaving
the latest, and, you know, I I'mI'm trying to set an example

(52:48):
that I'm no better than anybodyelse. And so to me, I think if
you continuously have thatpractice that you are you're in
service. You're in service toyour team and your others, and I
think that's what a leader lookslike in this day and age, and
that's how you continuouslydisrupt yourself.

Adam Larson (53:05):
Definitely. Sean, this has been quite the
conversation, and I I wanted tokind of end things by asking you
asking you. You know, ifsomebody's listening to this and
they're like, you know, I wannaI kinda wanna get started on
this journey. Maybe maybe youcan share a little bit, like,
what's that first step looklike?

Shawn Kanungo (53:23):
Yeah. Love that. You know, this has been awesome,
by the way, and and and and andI've just, like this is, like,
one of the most philosophical,conversations that I that I've
had on a podcast, especially onaccounting and finance podcast.
So I really appreciate you youyou having this conversation
with me. You know, I startingfor folks is so hard.

(53:43):
We we we see sometimes we weenvision what the what the
outcome is gonna be, but, youknow, starting is very hard. To
me, the best way to start is totake the smallest problem within
your process, within yourbusiness, within your
organization, within your life.Take the smallest problem that
you have and start asking why isthat problem why is it the

(54:07):
problem? Find differentquestions on how you can reframe
to solve that problem indifferent ways, whether it's
using new technologies, whetherit's using, you know, AI, and
it's starting to tackle thatparticular problem with this
very small experiment. And bystarting small with a very small
problem and a very smallexperiment and defining yourself

(54:29):
defining that with a very smallsprint, you're gonna start to
you're gonna start to challengeyourself in in in new ways.
And to me, building that muscleto start is the greatest way of
doing anything. People alwaysask me, how do I start an AI?
You know, what tool should Iuse? Right? And I go back to the
gym analogy.
It's like, there is no besttool. There is no best

(54:50):
technology. There is nothing.There there is not there's no
it's going like going to thegym. People are asking, what is
the best machine at the gym?
There is no best machine at thegym. The point of going to the
gym is that you pick up anymachine and you start using it.
And the point is that you comeback the second day, the third
day, the fifty third day, thefive hundred and twenty fifth

(55:12):
day, and that the tools becomelighter in your hand. So pick up
any tool and just start usingit. And the punch line is that
when you go to the gym, there isone machine that is the best
machine, and that that's themachine that scans you in.
So just start picking up anytool that aligns with a
particular problem that you haveand start building it, and then

(55:33):
pick up another one. And that'show you build this this muscle
over time. So that's that's howyou go off and start.

Adam Larson (55:38):
Awesome. Well, Sean, thank you so much for
coming on Count Me In. I knowI've I've I've appreciated our
talk and our chat, I hope ourlisteners have appreciated as
much as I have.

Shawn Kanungo (55:48):
This has been, an honor to be here. The work that
you are doing is incredible. Andif you haven't you haven't
registered or or rated orreviewed or subscribed yet,
please do because Adam and theteam are putting incredible
work. Thank you so much forhaving me. It was a pleasure.

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