October 28, 2024 • 34 mins
Hunter Rankin, an esteemed sheriff's commander from Arizona, joins us for an open-hearted conversation about his two decades in law enforcement and his personal struggles with the culture that often accompanies it. From navigating the stress of the job to battling alcohol dependence, Hunter's journey is both inspiring and cautionary. Raised in a small town where his uncle served as the chief of police, Hunter's path into law enforcement seemed inevitable. However, it was not without its challenges, particularly the unhealthy coping mechanisms that were once normalized within the profession. Hunter's candid reflections offer a window into the evolving culture of law enforcement, underscoring the essential need for wellness and responsible leadership.
We also shine a light on the critical importance of addressing mental health and personal struggles before they escalate into public crises. Hunter's story of overcoming toxic relationships and alcohol dependency highlights the transformative power of compassionate and supportive leadership. By sharing his experiences, Hunter illustrates the profound impact that a supportive workplace can have on individual recovery. This episode is a testament to the power of storytelling—not just as a tool for personal healing but as a means to inspire others who may be on similar journeys. Tune in to explore the courage required for open conversations and the pivotal role of understanding and support in fostering recovery and resilience within professional environments.
Read the series of articles by Hunter Rankin.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Courageous Leadership with Travis Yates,
where leaders find the insights,advice and encouragement they
need to lead courageously.
Travis Yates (00:13):
Welcome back to the show.
I'm so honored you've decidedto spend a few minutes with us
here today, and we've beentrying to get this interview set
up for quite some time, so I amreally excited to have Hunter
Rankin here.
He's a sheriff's commander inArizona with over two decades of
experience.
He's a graduate of theNorthwestern Police School of
(00:33):
Staff and Command and theArizona Leadership Program.
Hunter's a proven leader andinstructor with a specialty in
wellness, as well as aleadership consultant and
addiction recovery coach.
Hunter, how are you doing, sir?
Hunter Rankin (00:47):
I'm doing great man.
Thank you for having me on.
I really appreciate it.
Travis Yates (00:51):
Well, you're there in Arizona doing your thing.
I appreciate you spending sometime with us, and your story is
so unique and so inspiring.
I've been wanting to have youon for quite some time.
I guess, before we get going,just kind of walk us into law
enforcement.
How did you get involved in lawenforcement and how has your
journey been?
Hunter Rankin (01:08):
Yeah, so you know I was introduced to law
enforcement, you know, at areally young age.
My uncle was the chief ofpolice in the town that I grew
up in, so I kind of grew uparound it, you know, always at
the office, always riding in hiscar, things like that.
So I really took an interest toit early on.
And the town that I grew up inthe jail was there.
(01:29):
All the prisons were there.
So a lot of my friends went towork for the county in the jail
and seemed like something coolthat you know I would like to do
.
So that's kind of how I got myfoot in the door as I started in
our jail before I went to wentto the road.
Travis Yates (01:44):
I started in our jail before I went to the road.
Yeah, so you have a typical,you know entry into law
enforcement and your career isgoing very, very well.
But there were some issuesbehind the scenes and I think
many people face these issuesearly on.
The profession is so unique.
It's never what we completelyexpect and some of us deal with
those issues better than others.
(02:04):
Kind of talk to us about someof those early signs that were
occurring and kind of go fromthere.
Hunter Rankin (02:11):
You know, I think mine may have even been
before law enforcement and Ithink we've all heard this
before.
You know, you grow up in asmall town and a lot of people
will blame it on small towns,but it just it is what it is.
I grew up in a small town withnot a lot of things to do, so it
(02:32):
was very common for us to startdrinking at a really early age.
So I was one of and I startedat 16, but I was a late bloomer.
You know there were a lot of myfriends that started at 13, 14
years old.
So I jumped into thisprofession and right out of high
school I mean the Monday afterI graduated high school I
started at the sheriff's office.
So I'm going from a high schoolkid to now I'm in this adult
(02:55):
world and environment, dealingwith real life, adult issues,
and I found that it was reallycommon for everybody to just
hang out and drink.
So I was like, hey, this is nodifferent than than high school
man.
You know, we go to work, we getour job done and then we all go
hang out and drink.
And I found early on that thatwas kind of recommended for how
(03:19):
to deal with all the stress andall the BS that we put up with
all day.
Hey, let's go hang out.
We'll drink our problems awayand then we'll start over
tomorrow.
Travis Yates (03:29):
Yeah, and you were speaking to a culture, right, a
culture is very much stillalive in a profession, and I
have to think that as a 18, 19year old kid, you went from hey,
we're sort of doing somethingwe shouldn't be doing, but we
found a way to do it.
I'm similar to you.
I grew up in a small town and Ican still remember the invites
to the car wash on the weekendwhere there was nothing to do
but drink beer, right, andthings like that.
(03:49):
Somehow I was able to avoidmuch of that, but that was very
much every weekend.
That's all there was to do.
They'd go to the lake or they'dgo to the car wash, or you know
.
We're talking towns of three,400 people and this is what the
kids would do.
And I have to imagine that froma perspective of an 18 or 19
year old, you went from sort ofdoing something that was seen as
man we better not really dothis out in the open to now it's
(04:11):
welcomed.
You're working in a job whereit's not only welcomed, it's
encouraged.
That must.
You must have been on cloudnine, right?
Hunter Rankin (04:19):
Oh yeah, it was awesome, man.
It was like everything, youknow, that that I wanted.
I have this cool job, I'mgetting paid and I still get to
hang out and act like it's highschool.
You know, and that was, youknow, mid, mid nineties.
Uh, when I started, and I mean,I had my bosses were the ones
that were, you know, organizingthese events and getting me into
(04:41):
these drinking functions.
You know, being under age, butagain, culture it's just, it's
what we do, you know.
Travis Yates (04:49):
Yeah, and you know , I I started in 93, very
similar timeframe, and and Idon't think it happens to the
extent it did back then but Iremember, as you know, hey,
you're in uniform after work inthe parking lot, right You're.
You're stripping uniform off inthe bathroom when you're going
to the bar with the guys.
I mean, that was that was, uh,very, very common.
(05:09):
Nobody thought much of it untilrecently, a decade ago.
You know, I'm familiar with theswat scandal to where the swat
team was doing that for a longtime and then when they started
getting trouble, they went hey,hold on a minute, look at all
these photographs of all thesechiefs and sheriffs and upper
commanders doing this with us.
So it's very much a culture,and so you likely partaked in
(05:32):
that and got away with that,like everybody else for a long
time.
But it probably at some eventprobably turned to the negative,
because there are some peoplethat can do this once in a while
and it's OK.
I think probably you have astory to tell to where, hey,
there was a point, to where youshould have turned back and you
didn't and kind of lead us downthat road.
What happened with that?
Hunter Rankin (05:50):
Yeah.
So alcohol definitely became acrush for me.
So I took it to the extreme, Itook it to the next level
because I still suffer fromsocial anxiety.
You know, throwing a couplebeers down, I could go to any
event.
Travis Yates (06:09):
Is that why you didn't go to lunch with me a
couple weeks ago, when I said,let's go to lunch, and then you
were nowhere to be found?
Hunter Rankin (06:14):
Hey, I couldn't find you man, the man of the
hour.
Travis Yates (06:18):
Yeah, yeah.
Hunter Rankin (06:23):
So I found out, hey, that's a really easy way to
to, to be calm and cool, youknow.
And then it became, it becamemy go-to for everything.
You know, you have a rough day.
You drink, um, because thefeeling that you know I would
get from drinking and partyingand hanging out with the guys I
got to hide from all the bullcrap that was that was messing
(06:45):
with my mind.
So what it turned into is Inever wanted the party to end.
If I could keep drinking, Icould keep that feeling going
Right.
Well then, one day you're stilldrinking, but the feeling's not
going away.
You know, I can remember I wassitting in my backyard and you
(07:06):
know I was.
I was down on a bottle and Iremember, you know, just looking
at that bottle, going man, it'sgone and and I'm still not
finding what I'm looking for.
Travis Yates (07:16):
Yeah, you know, and I don't even know the answer
to this, but I've been aroundthis so much I want to just
guess and you tell me what theanswer is.
I bet you were a very highperforming officer.
I bet your job reviews weregood.
Everybody thought you were theman to go to.
It's weird with thatpersonality right, because so
many people can get away withboth right, until they can't.
Is that sort of your story?
Hunter Rankin (07:41):
Absolutely man.
I was a big game hunter man.
I loved being out there,getting in the mix, getting in
the thick of it, you know,arresting everybody.
I can fights, foot pursuits,car chases.
I loved it, loved being in themiddle of it and I was very high
performing and I did.
I kept it up for a long timeuntil I just couldn't anymore.
Travis Yates (08:01):
Well, let's talk about that from a leadership
perspective, because you're inmiddle management now.
Middle management, quasi uppermanagement, and so what should
leaders be looking out for?
Because I've seen us fail inthis so many times, where we're
given all the kudos to the highperformers, all the kudos to
high performers, but we're sortof blinded to what's also right
in front of us.
Hunter Rankin (08:20):
Right, and that's you know.
There's been a few incidents onthe forefront here lately of,
you know, on duty public safetyprofessionals that are getting
popped on duty for DUIs.
You know this latest tragedyout of Atlanta where they think
that one of their guys was, youknow, high on drugs when he got
(08:41):
into this incident.
And I'm telling you, Iguarantee you, there were clues,
there were clues there thatpeople missed and again, we're
good at hiding that stuff.
So bosses need to look out foreven just the subtle changes.
And it comes down to learningand knowing your people as well.
You've got to be close withyour people.
(09:03):
So I had those changes.
I went from even as a Sergeant.
I went from, you know, 15traffic stops a day to maybe two
or three a week.
I had never used sick time inmy.
I mean, I had so much sick timeit wasn't even funny.
I was going home early everynight.
I was calling off multiple daysin a row because I had to take
(09:27):
care of things and it just itbecame a pattern that if
somebody was really payingattention they would have seen
that something's not right here.
He's, he's out of character.
So basically, you're justlooking for what is this person
doing that's out of character.
Are there complaints going up,you know?
(09:47):
Are they getting into morephysical interactions, more
verbal interactions?
Because when you're fiendingfor that alcohol, all you can
think of is getting through thatshift so that you can start
drinking again.
So you have a very, very lowtolerance for anybody's crap.
So you may start havingconflicts with fellow employees
(10:13):
and you're not known as thattype of person.
There's those kind of thingsthat come up because you're not
yourself.
Travis Yates (10:20):
Yeah, and it's so interesting.
In fact, a few weeks ago, whenwe were together at that
training event, I got a callduring lunchtime and it was from
a sergeant at an agency I won'tname and he was dealing with an
employee in a similar fashion,a high-performing guy.
He showed up to in-service afew weeks ago with alcohol in
his breath.
We just sent him home.
(10:40):
I got a call from a friend ofhis that said he's been drinking
a lot, he's going through adivorce.
He's like Travis, you know whatcan I do?
He hasn't really done anythingon duty.
I'm like, okay, we'll figureout the in-service part right.
But he's showing up to work,he's performing well, there's no
issues.
And I said man, listen, youcan't separate private and
personal because private's goingto jump into personal.
I said you need to get him inyour office right now and we
(11:01):
walked through the resourcesthat he had.
So the sergeant was thinkingthe right way, but he was very
confused on well, it hasn'tmanifested into a complaint, it
hasn't manifested onto anything.
And I said no, you've got tointerject that, you've got to
get there before that.
I just don't know your thoughtson that.
Hunter Rankin (11:16):
So I think that's it's a very uncomfortable
area for everybody, because Ithink a lot of people don't know
what they can do either.
I think a lot of people don'tknow what they can do either.
You know, in this world of theworld that we live in right now,
you know HR is very, verystrong and very powerful in
organizations and you have to becareful of what you do, what
you say, what you ask.
(11:37):
So I think that may cause alittle bit of apprehension as
well, but, bottom line, you'relooking out for the safety of
your employee and we just needto put that fear aside and that
apprehension, and be courageousand actually address the issue.
(11:59):
And we became leaders for areason.
We know that there's going to beuncomfortable conversations, so
we have to start making thesenormal conversations just like
any other employee related issue, especially when you care about
your employees, you just needto sit them down and just be
straight with them and be likehey, look, um, you may not like
(12:22):
this, but I've noticed somethings here and I may be wrong,
I may be off base, but this iswhat I'm noticing and what can I
do to help you, because if youkeep going down this path.
It could have some badconsequences for you.
Travis Yates (12:37):
Yeah, call them out.
Yeah, you refer to thecourageous conversations we talk
about in our seminars and onething that sort of lit a fire in
this sergeant.
I say, listen, if you do asearch warrant tonight and he
makes some mistakes, are yougoing to talk to him?
He goes well, of course, likewell, man, this is no different.
This is no different, right, ifyou care about him, you've got
to get him in an office andyou've got to have a discussion
with him and, uh, I haven'theard back.
(12:59):
I think it went well, but soyou, you kept going down this
path, uh, hunter, and it gotreal bad, sort of what was the
culmination of that?
And then walk us through whatyour department did and any help
, if any, that they provided foryou.
Hunter Rankin (13:15):
Yeah, and you know I do have to say that I
work for a great agency and theyreally have even
administrations previous to thisone got on top of this issue,
maybe a little sooner thanothers, and they really started
putting mental wellness at theforefront, which wasn't the case
when I started.
And it's really good to workfor an agency like that and to
(13:37):
seeing other agencies start toget on board.
So for me, it just got to thepoint where, um, I just couldn't
handle it anymore.
Um, so I was dealing withpersonal issues.
So, of course, for me, alcoholalways affected me in the
(13:58):
relationship area.
So I either got into badrelationships or, you know, I I
saw red flags and I aimed forthem instead of steering away
from them, right?
So the, the girl that I waswith um, you know I had twins
with her and um, it got bad.
You know, when I met her, shewas a cop.
She ended up in ex-con by thetime we were done, um, so you
(14:21):
know we could do a whole podcastjust on that alone, but
essentially there were somethings.
Travis Yates (14:26):
I bet there were some fun times.
I know there's relationships,right.
We'll leave that for anotherday.
Hunter Rankin (14:31):
Yeah, we'll leave that for another day
because, yeah, that's a wholechapter.
So I mean, essentially, she hadmoved her drug dealer into her
house and was living with himand I could not, I couldn't
figure out how I was going toget my kids out of that
situation and, um, I just didn'thandle it, right, man.
(14:54):
So I started drinking reallyheavy one night and, um, I
called my brother and said heylook, I can't do this on my own.
I need help, I need you to takeme somewhere.
So he did.
He took me to this place up inthe Valley in Arizona and I met
this doctor.
(15:15):
And so weird the way thingshappen.
This doctor was a retiredsheriff sergeant out of LA
County and we had a really goodtalk and he told me.
He said, all right, I'm goingto get you through this, but I'm
telling you, when you get outof this, if you drink alcohol
again, you're going to die.
And I said, yeah, yeah, Ibelieve you, absolutely.
(15:35):
Like.
No way I would touch the stuffagain.
The whole time, in the back ofmy mind, I'm thinking, man, when
am I going to get out of here,because I haven't had a drink in
a couple hours and I need toget back to drinking.
So they convinced me to stay.
I stayed like two or three daysin a detox and that third day,
(15:57):
when they move you onto thefloor, I met with the intake
person and I basically told himright, I'm ready to go home.
You know I'm cured, I'm good,you know I'm dried out.
Basically told him right, I'mready to go home.
You know I'm cured, I'm good,you know I'm dried out.
He said, no, you need to stay.
And I said, no, I'm, I'm good,like uh just had a bad day, like
I'll be able to handle it.
So I left against medicaladvice and uh they've only heard
(16:17):
that a million times before.
Travis Yates (16:19):
Right, right.
Hunter Rankin (16:21):
Yep, but it was going to be different this time,
right, so I left, ama, got aride home from my dad.
When I did leave, the peoplethat I talked to when I left
they did say hey, you're on abunch of hospital medication
right now.
Do not drink, if you drinkyou're going to die.
(16:41):
I said not a problem.
So my dad dropped me off.
I said not a problem.
So my dad dropped me off.
I walked through the front doorand I went to the refrigerator
and I opened it and I grabbed abeer and started drinking.
So I don't know, six pack in,I'm on alcohol, hospital
medication.
Then the texting starts.
You know I'm texting her to say, hey, we got to fix this, we
(17:05):
got to figure this out.
I can't have my kids around him.
I can't do this.
Well, fast forward, I'm on allthis hospital medication, my
normal prescription pills that Iuse, and it just it becomes a
blur Right what I think and I'mstill not convinced.
(17:27):
One way or the other.
I don't know if I tried to killmyself or I just didn't care if
I died.
I basically texted her and said, hey, well, you know, it looks
like you got it figured out.
You and your boyfriend can takecare of the.
You know, take care of the kids.
Thanks a lot.
And I went to my chair and Isat down and I was content with
going to sleep and I hear it waslike just one of those dreams
(17:50):
where you know you're kind of inand out and I could hear this
knocking noise.
So I opened the front door andit's it's a city cop that I know
and he's standing.
He was a Sergeant and he'sstanding there and I was like
what's up, man?
And he goes.
Hey, you know, she called.
I guess you guys are havingsome issues and she's kind of
(18:10):
worried that you might want tohurt yourself.
And I said I'm good man.
I said you know she's crazy andshe's just trying to get me in
trouble.
It's all good, dude.
He's like okay, you don't needanything.
I said, no, I'm good.
And he left, shut the door andI went back and sat back down on
my chair and I was contentagain.
So again I get.
(18:31):
I get woken up by this loudbanging and knocking and, uh,
later find out it was about anhour and a half worth of
knocking.
Um, that I finally responded to.
I opened the door.
It's the same sergeant andabout four or five officers and
he says hey, we saw the textsand I said come on in, so I sit
(18:54):
down.
Travis Yates (18:56):
You knew this would be a longer conversation
at this point.
Hunter Rankin (18:58):
Yeah, yeah.
So I sit down, fire shows up,meds show up and next thing I
know I'm loaded up and I'm on myway to the hospital now you
have to have a lot of thingsgoing on in your mind because
this could affect your job,could affect your status.
Travis Yates (19:13):
That's got to be a big concern at this point,
right amongst other thingsyou're dealing with yeah, it was
well.
Hunter Rankin (19:18):
Of course, at the time I was drunk and high
off my ass, so, uh, thoseweren't as serious at the moment
, but they were definitely there.
I was like I've got tocooperate, I've got to do
exactly what I'm supposed to doto be able to get out of this
Right.
So it's definitely there, um,but I spent the next couple of
days, uh, in the hospitaltotally unconscious, like I was
(19:41):
just out of it.
Um, I come to I don't know,maybe on day three, and uh, my
dad and brother were in the roomwith me and I was kind of
confused where I was, what wasgoing on.
But a case manager was thereand said you know, we're sending
you to a psych ward.
I was like I'm not going to apsych ward, like you're out of
your mind, like I need to gohome.
(20:02):
And he probably gave me thefirst kind of slap of reality
where he says, okay, well then,I'm going to petition you.
If I petition you, your job'snot going to like this.
And that set off that bell,that crap.
He's right, okay, I'll signwhere I need to sign.
So I went to, I went to a psychhospital for a couple of days
(20:24):
psych ward for a couple of days,and that was an interesting
experience, I can tell you that.
But while I was in there, mybrother, who works for the
agency as well, showed up and hehad a packet of paperwork and
basically said hey, the sheriffand the chief wanted me to come
bring you this and tell you, youknow, to sign this, they're
(20:45):
going to help you out with FMLA,but you're going to rehab.
And I said, no, man, I'm notgoing to rehab.
Like, what are you talkingabout?
Like, I probably have to behere a couple of days.
Travis Yates (20:56):
You already graduated from rehab just a few
days earlier.
Hunter Rankin (20:59):
Yeah, I'm cured now Remember.
Travis Yates (21:01):
I'm dry, I'm good.
Yeah, this time.
Hunter Rankin (21:02):
I'm dry, I'm good.
Travis Yates (21:03):
Yeah.
Hunter Rankin (21:03):
It's time when I get home it's going to be
different.
I swear, uh.
So you know.
He tells me.
He said, hey, they said this isthe only way that you come out
of this.
Okay, and again I went.
I do have my kids to thinkabout, my career, my legacy, you
know all this shit.
And uh, so I signed him andsaid, all right, well, I'll do
(21:26):
what I got to do.
And he says, but don't worry,you know, we found a place that
only takes um soldiers and cops.
I'm like okay that's I can dealwith that, that's my people, you
know.
So I think it was the next day,um again, my poor dad man
dealing with his 36 year oldbaby, um, standing there, you
(21:50):
know, with my bags packed, andoff to Palm Springs.
We went and you know, I gotthere, got checked in and and
quickly realized it was not aplace for just military and cops
.
But they knew what I needed tohear to help me just take that
next little step to get there.
(22:11):
They knew, once I got there I'dbe all right.
But it was that fear, you know,of going in with normal people
and having to admit that, hey,I'm a cop and I have to be in
here with you guys, which I'lltell you ended up being being
the best thing for me in theworld was doing it that way.
(22:31):
But back to one of the thingsyou said about the agency and
the support.
But back to one of the thingsyou said about the agency and
the support.
They were huge in getting me towhere I was at and allowing me
to recover and continue on withmy career, because I was a
lieutenant on probation Wow,they didn't look at me as just
(23:00):
an employee, as just anothernumber.
They looked at me as the personand what I had done in my
career up to that point andrealizing that, you know, some
of it could have been from thecareer itself, as to why I was
in the position I was in, as towhy a lot of us get into this is
because of the profession thatwe've chosen, the service that
we give to our communities andthe help that we don't get from
(23:22):
our agencies, for whateverreason, right Even the ones that
are trying hard.
We haven't figured.
I don't think we've figured itout yet.
I don't think we've figured theformula out on how exactly do
we perfect this to help peoplenot go down this path?
Travis Yates (23:39):
Well, you know, there's a, there's a divide here
, because this point you'retalking about is where courage
and cowards intersect, and thecowardly thing to do is he's
lieutenant on probation, whichthose of you that don't know
what that means, that means theycould just get rid of you
regardless, demote you,discipline you.
There's no, you have thatperiod where it's sort of a test
period and they would, you knowso the cowards were doing, they
(24:00):
would just cut you.
You've been gone, you've beenunemployed.
Let's let's compile thoseproblems on these other problems
.
But what the what thecourageous people do is they go.
Let's look at the whole person.
Let's look at his.
Let's not judge this guy bythis, these, this one event.
What has he done in his timehere?
What has he contributed here?
Is he salvageable?
And is it our duty to salvagehim and to rehabilitate him?
(24:20):
Because it's probably some ofour responsibility on why he got
here in the first place?
So you were very fortunate tobe in that position, because so
many people I'm sure you knowthe stories as well that the
easy road is just taken right,and so you had to have an
incredible feeling of gratitudeonce you came out from the other
side of that right oh,absolutely, it was immense.
Hunter Rankin (24:41):
um, you know they're that chief and sheriff
are no longer here and, uh, Istill have just such a profound
amount of respect for thembecause of how they helped me
personally, because if theywould have taken the other route
, if they would have gone downthat road and cut me and sent me
(25:05):
packing, I don't know whatwould have happened to me,
because I was already in such afragile condition and making
very poor decisions.
I don't know if I'd havesurvived it.
Travis Yates (25:18):
honestly, yeah, what is such an important note
is is all the things you've donesince then wouldn't have even
happened, right, and all theinfluence you're having on
nation's law enforcement todaywouldn't have even happened.
So I want all the leaders tolisten to this, to think about
that, like, don't just thinkabout an event in time.
Think about what you're losingif you go down this path,
because obviously your agencynow, and the country, has gained
(25:40):
an incredible resource with youtelling this story.
Hunter Rankin (25:45):
Yeah, and, and that's you know that, that's
what I started looking at earlyon was I'm still here for a
reason, and what is that reason?
I'm still here for a reason,and what is that reason?
And if I don't tell my story,if I don't make myself
vulnerable because I guaranteeyou, there's people out there
that are judging me, there'speople that don't agree with my
(26:05):
message, there's people thatdon't agree with us talking
about this, and that's okay.
If I can help one person eithernot go down this path, or if
they do find themselves on thispath, I can help them get off
that path.
That's what it was for.
I think I went through this tobe able to help more people, and
(26:26):
so I've got to tell my story,I've got to get it out there.
Travis Yates (26:30):
Yeah, I can't agree with you more.
You know, sometimes when thebad things happen, we just chalk
it up as bad luck, or it's justyou know, or maybe I'm a
knucklehead no pun intended butI think we have to look at it in
a different way.
Is there's always a reasonthings happen?
I mean, the Bible tells us thatright to those that are chosen.
I mean there's a reason whythese things happen.
The problem is we're not alwaystold the reason until years
(26:53):
later.
But I think it became veryclear to you early on.
This is why I went through this.
I can then help others becauseyou speak from a level of
credibility that so many peoplecan, and so you made the
decision to go public with thisabout a year or so ago with my
mass ride, and your firstarticle you wrote was called the
Duty of Drinking.
You've written a series ofother articles on LawOfficercom
and your own website, Hunter.
(27:14):
We'll put the link in the shownotes.
You probably had to have sortof a debate with yourself on
whether you were going to dothat because, like you said,
that can bring on additionalcriticism and additional trauma,
so to speak.
So just kind of walk us throughyour decision to.
Actually, I'm going to use thisexperience to help others.
Hunter Rankin (27:31):
Right.
So in uh, you know when, when Igot out of rehab, um, I
actually lived in sober livingfor a couple months after that
as well, in California, andthat's where you do that fast.
They call it 90 and 90, 90meetings in 90 days.
Well, I did more than that.
So I really was involved in theAA community and that's one of
(27:55):
their biggest messages there isit's the recovered, or
recovering alcoholics.
You know duty to bring thismessage to others and to help as
many others as we can.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
So that was kind of always in my head.
Hunter Rankin (28:09):
And so as I got further away from it, I got back
into the routine of the job.
I started thinking, okay, buthow can I make this bigger?
So I helped, you know, get ourwellness program kind of
revamped off the ground, put atraining program together and I
did a video for that training ofnot of course it wasn't my full
(28:32):
story, but basically anabbreviated version of it Showed
it at the beginning of everytraining for the whole agency
and some of the outside agencies.
And I got a lot of positivefeedback on it, and so that was
kind of my first inclination,that, ok, so maybe I can make
this bigger, maybe I can do thismore more Started speaking in
(28:58):
classes, being honest withpeople, being vulnerable,
telling them my story, and got alot of good response from that.
Started getting asked by somelocal organizations to come
speak at some of their events.
So I did some of those Hugepositive feedback.
So I'm thinking, all right,this is something I gotta do and
I gotta try to get to as big ascale as I can or as big an
(29:21):
audience as I can, because we'reout there everywhere, right?
Um, alcohol, you know,alcoholism doesn't discriminate.
It doesn't matter who you are,what you do, it can get you.
Um.
So then I started having peoplecome to me I'm talking line
(29:41):
level people, um, that werecoming to me saying I need help.
Um, can you point me in theright direction, can you?
I know your story, um, and Iknow that, like because
everybody's worried, like I knowI'm totally jumping chain of
command here, and I'm like, yeah, chain of command doesn't exist
, right, this kind of stuff, man, let me help you.
(30:03):
So it was kind of a culminationof all of those things where I
was.
Like you know, I've got to dosomething more with this and not
just keep it to.
You know this, this localcommunity, I've got to get it
out there, my message out.
Travis Yates (30:16):
There is as much as far as I can, I guess yeah, I
want to encourage everybody tohit that link up because you've
written several of thosearticles.
They sort of built on eachother.
You wrote one recently calledwe eat our own and I thought
that was so fascinating kind oftalk, talk about that with our
audience on on sort of themessaging behind that yeah, and
you know it kind of goes back towhat we were talking about
(30:36):
before.
Hunter Rankin (30:37):
There's a little bit of that in there about, you
know, the supervisors notknowing how to talk to their
subordinates that are struggling.
Man, we're one of the worstprofessions at.
It is we just tear each otherup when we make the simplest
mistake and a lot of it'sgood-natured ribbing fun, but
(30:58):
some of it's not, you know, andwe forget what it was like to be
that new guy, to be that rookiejust wanting to do good, and
you've got these senior guysthat are coming down on you and
making fun of you and you can'tdo anything right, and it goes
beyond constructive.
It's not a constructiveconversation.
It's meant to belittle and teardown, and so I think what
(31:24):
happens is to some people, thatjust naturally ingrains that
don't ask for help, because ifyou ask for help, you're going
to get made fun of, you're goingto be ostracized, you're going
to be known as those guys overthere, the slugs or the lame
ones or whatever.
So when you find yourselfstruggling for real, that's in
(31:46):
the back of your mind, Like man.
These guys ate me up when youknow I filled out a toe sheet
wrong.
So what are they going to saywhen I come?
Tell them, hey, I'm not strongenough to stop drinking on my
own, Okay, Well, we can't trustthis guy.
He's, he's a sissy.
Um, I can't trust him, for youknow to, as backup, I'm not
(32:07):
going to go through a door withthem.
You know, all those thoughtsstart going through your mind
and you don't want to be knownas that guy.
And I think it's because of theway we treat ourselves in the
beginning, and and and I'm notsaying that some of it isn't
warranted, and I mean I was amotor and I mean I don't know if
there's any more shit talkingin the unit, you know, than a
(32:28):
motor unit, but you've got tomake sure that it's balanced and
and that eventually it,eventually it's constructive in
nature.
Otherwise we breed this intoour own, to where they're so
scared to ask for help thatthey'll just ride it into the
ground.
Travis Yates (32:48):
Well, hunter, it's so inspirational on your story
and what you've been able to do.
I want everybody you know somany people that listen to this
maybe it's not that story, butthey have other stories right?
I want to encourage everybodyto try to turn what may be seen
as a negative into helpingothers, cause that's really what
we're here to do.
Right?
You mentioned legacy earlier.
We're here to do that.
We can't miss that, so to speak, and you're doing such
(33:12):
incredible things at your agencyand now nationwide.
You're doing such incrediblethings at your agency and now
nationwide.
Hunter Rankin (33:20):
How can people reach out to you for questions
or how can they see what you'redoing so they can reach out to
me at my email, it's54adamconsultingcom
54adamconsultingcom.
They can reach me there for anyquestions, any advice, anything
you want me to share, anythingI've missed.
(33:41):
There's been a couple of peoplethat have reached out on some
of the articles that havesuggested some topics, and I
really appreciate that too,because I do want to hit on
things that you all want to knowabout yeah, we're going to get
your website up pretty soon.
Travis Yates (33:56):
But if you just don't remember any of this, you
reach out to me direct.
I'll get you over to Hunter.
We'll connect you up.
We've got each other's cellphones and if he said it's okay,
I'll just send that over to you, but just there's a way to
reach him.
Don't worry about all that.
Hunter Rankin (34:08):
Yeah, and I'm on .
I'm on LinkedIn, yeah, soInstagram, facebook, just under
my name, hunter Rankin, so I'mreachable by all of those as
well.
Travis Yates (34:19):
Hunter Rankin man, I can't thank you enough.
I mean, we always have a greattime when I see you and get to
talk to you.
This has been a blast.
Thank you for what you do andthanks for coming on.
Hunter Rankin (34:30):
Thank you, man, I really appreciate it.
Travis Yates (34:32):
And if you've been listening, you've been watching
.
Thank you for doing that.
And just remember lead on andstay courageous.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Thank you for listening to Courageous
Leadership with Travis Yates.
We invite you to join othercourageous leaders at www.
travisyates.
org.
Welcome to Courageous Leadership with Travis Yates,
where leaders find the insights,advice and encouragement they
need to lead courageously.
Travis Yates (00:13):
Welcome back to the show.
I'm so honored you've decidedto spend a few minutes with us
here today, and we've beentrying to get this interview set
up for quite some time, so I amreally excited to have Hunter
Rankin here.
He's a sheriff's commander inArizona with over two decades of
experience.
He's a graduate of theNorthwestern Police School of
(00:33):
Staff and Command and theArizona Leadership Program.
Hunter's a proven leader andinstructor with a specialty in
wellness, as well as aleadership consultant and
addiction recovery coach.
Hunter, how are you doing, sir?
Hunter Rankin (00:47):
I'm doing great man.
Thank you for having me on.
I really appreciate it.
Travis Yates (00:51):
Well, you're there in Arizona doing your thing.
I appreciate you spending sometime with us, and your story is
so unique and so inspiring.
I've been wanting to have youon for quite some time.
I guess, before we get going,just kind of walk us into law
enforcement.
How did you get involved in lawenforcement and how has your
journey been?
Hunter Rankin (01:08):
Yeah, so you know I was introduced to law
enforcement, you know, at areally young age.
My uncle was the chief ofpolice in the town that I grew
up in, so I kind of grew uparound it, you know, always at
the office, always riding in hiscar, things like that.
So I really took an interest toit early on.
And the town that I grew up inthe jail was there.
(01:29):
All the prisons were there.
So a lot of my friends went towork for the county in the jail
and seemed like something coolthat you know I would like to do
.
So that's kind of how I got myfoot in the door as I started in
our jail before I went to wentto the road.
Travis Yates (01:44):
I started in our jail before I went to the road.
Yeah, so you have a typical,you know entry into law
enforcement and your career isgoing very, very well.
But there were some issuesbehind the scenes and I think
many people face these issuesearly on.
The profession is so unique.
It's never what we completelyexpect and some of us deal with
those issues better than others.
(02:04):
Kind of talk to us about someof those early signs that were
occurring and kind of go fromthere.
Hunter Rankin (02:11):
You know, I think mine may have even been
before law enforcement and Ithink we've all heard this
before.
You know, you grow up in asmall town and a lot of people
will blame it on small towns,but it just it is what it is.
I grew up in a small town withnot a lot of things to do, so it
(02:32):
was very common for us to startdrinking at a really early age.
So I was one of and I startedat 16, but I was a late bloomer.
You know there were a lot of myfriends that started at 13, 14
years old.
So I jumped into thisprofession and right out of high
school I mean the Monday afterI graduated high school I
started at the sheriff's office.
So I'm going from a high schoolkid to now I'm in this adult
(02:55):
world and environment, dealingwith real life, adult issues,
and I found that it was reallycommon for everybody to just
hang out and drink.
So I was like, hey, this is nodifferent than than high school
man.
You know, we go to work, we getour job done and then we all go
hang out and drink.
And I found early on that thatwas kind of recommended for how
(03:19):
to deal with all the stress andall the BS that we put up with
all day.
Hey, let's go hang out.
We'll drink our problems awayand then we'll start over
tomorrow.
Travis Yates (03:29):
Yeah, and you were speaking to a culture, right, a
culture is very much stillalive in a profession, and I
have to think that as a 18, 19year old kid, you went from hey,
we're sort of doing somethingwe shouldn't be doing, but we
found a way to do it.
I'm similar to you.
I grew up in a small town and Ican still remember the invites
to the car wash on the weekendwhere there was nothing to do
but drink beer, right, andthings like that.
(03:49):
Somehow I was able to avoidmuch of that, but that was very
much every weekend.
That's all there was to do.
They'd go to the lake or they'dgo to the car wash, or you know
.
We're talking towns of three,400 people and this is what the
kids would do.
And I have to imagine that froma perspective of an 18 or 19
year old, you went from sort ofdoing something that was seen as
man we better not really dothis out in the open to now it's
(04:11):
welcomed.
You're working in a job whereit's not only welcomed, it's
encouraged.
That must.
You must have been on cloudnine, right?
Hunter Rankin (04:19):
Oh yeah, it was awesome, man.
It was like everything, youknow, that that I wanted.
I have this cool job, I'mgetting paid and I still get to
hang out and act like it's highschool.
You know, and that was, youknow, mid, mid nineties.
Uh, when I started, and I mean,I had my bosses were the ones
that were, you know, organizingthese events and getting me into
(04:41):
these drinking functions.
You know, being under age, butagain, culture it's just, it's
what we do, you know.
Travis Yates (04:49):
Yeah, and you know , I I started in 93, very
similar timeframe, and and Idon't think it happens to the
extent it did back then but Iremember, as you know, hey,
you're in uniform after work inthe parking lot, right You're.
You're stripping uniform off inthe bathroom when you're going
to the bar with the guys.
I mean, that was that was, uh,very, very common.
(05:09):
Nobody thought much of it untilrecently, a decade ago.
You know, I'm familiar with theswat scandal to where the swat
team was doing that for a longtime and then when they started
getting trouble, they went hey,hold on a minute, look at all
these photographs of all thesechiefs and sheriffs and upper
commanders doing this with us.
So it's very much a culture,and so you likely partaked in
(05:32):
that and got away with that,like everybody else for a long
time.
But it probably at some eventprobably turned to the negative,
because there are some peoplethat can do this once in a while
and it's OK.
I think probably you have astory to tell to where, hey,
there was a point, to where youshould have turned back and you
didn't and kind of lead us downthat road.
What happened with that?
Hunter Rankin (05:50):
Yeah.
So alcohol definitely became acrush for me.
So I took it to the extreme, Itook it to the next level
because I still suffer fromsocial anxiety.
You know, throwing a couplebeers down, I could go to any
event.
Travis Yates (06:09):
Is that why you didn't go to lunch with me a
couple weeks ago, when I said,let's go to lunch, and then you
were nowhere to be found?
Hunter Rankin (06:14):
Hey, I couldn't find you man, the man of the
hour.
Travis Yates (06:18):
Yeah, yeah.
Hunter Rankin (06:23):
So I found out, hey, that's a really easy way to
to, to be calm and cool, youknow.
And then it became, it becamemy go-to for everything.
You know, you have a rough day.
You drink, um, because thefeeling that you know I would
get from drinking and partyingand hanging out with the guys I
got to hide from all the bullcrap that was that was messing
(06:45):
with my mind.
So what it turned into is Inever wanted the party to end.
If I could keep drinking, Icould keep that feeling going
Right.
Well then, one day you're stilldrinking, but the feeling's not
going away.
You know, I can remember I wassitting in my backyard and you
(07:06):
know I was.
I was down on a bottle and Iremember, you know, just looking
at that bottle, going man, it'sgone and and I'm still not
finding what I'm looking for.
Travis Yates (07:16):
Yeah, you know, and I don't even know the answer
to this, but I've been aroundthis so much I want to just
guess and you tell me what theanswer is.
I bet you were a very highperforming officer.
I bet your job reviews weregood.
Everybody thought you were theman to go to.
It's weird with thatpersonality right, because so
many people can get away withboth right, until they can't.
Is that sort of your story?
Hunter Rankin (07:41):
Absolutely man.
I was a big game hunter man.
I loved being out there,getting in the mix, getting in
the thick of it, you know,arresting everybody.
I can fights, foot pursuits,car chases.
I loved it, loved being in themiddle of it and I was very high
performing and I did.
I kept it up for a long timeuntil I just couldn't anymore.
Travis Yates (08:01):
Well, let's talk about that from a leadership
perspective, because you're inmiddle management now.
Middle management, quasi uppermanagement, and so what should
leaders be looking out for?
Because I've seen us fail inthis so many times, where we're
given all the kudos to the highperformers, all the kudos to
high performers, but we're sortof blinded to what's also right
in front of us.
Hunter Rankin (08:20):
Right, and that's you know.
There's been a few incidents onthe forefront here lately of,
you know, on duty public safetyprofessionals that are getting
popped on duty for DUIs.
You know this latest tragedyout of Atlanta where they think
that one of their guys was, youknow, high on drugs when he got
(08:41):
into this incident.
And I'm telling you, Iguarantee you, there were clues,
there were clues there thatpeople missed and again, we're
good at hiding that stuff.
So bosses need to look out foreven just the subtle changes.
And it comes down to learningand knowing your people as well.
You've got to be close withyour people.
(09:03):
So I had those changes.
I went from even as a Sergeant.
I went from, you know, 15traffic stops a day to maybe two
or three a week.
I had never used sick time inmy.
I mean, I had so much sick timeit wasn't even funny.
I was going home early everynight.
I was calling off multiple daysin a row because I had to take
(09:27):
care of things and it just itbecame a pattern that if
somebody was really payingattention they would have seen
that something's not right here.
He's, he's out of character.
So basically, you're justlooking for what is this person
doing that's out of character.
Are there complaints going up,you know?
(09:47):
Are they getting into morephysical interactions, more
verbal interactions?
Because when you're fiendingfor that alcohol, all you can
think of is getting through thatshift so that you can start
drinking again.
So you have a very, very lowtolerance for anybody's crap.
So you may start havingconflicts with fellow employees
(10:13):
and you're not known as thattype of person.
There's those kind of thingsthat come up because you're not
yourself.
Travis Yates (10:20):
Yeah, and it's so interesting.
In fact, a few weeks ago, whenwe were together at that
training event, I got a callduring lunchtime and it was from
a sergeant at an agency I won'tname and he was dealing with an
employee in a similar fashion,a high-performing guy.
He showed up to in-service afew weeks ago with alcohol in
his breath.
We just sent him home.
(10:40):
I got a call from a friend ofhis that said he's been drinking
a lot, he's going through adivorce.
He's like Travis, you know whatcan I do?
He hasn't really done anythingon duty.
I'm like, okay, we'll figureout the in-service part right.
But he's showing up to work,he's performing well, there's no
issues.
And I said man, listen, youcan't separate private and
personal because private's goingto jump into personal.
I said you need to get him inyour office right now and we
(11:01):
walked through the resourcesthat he had.
So the sergeant was thinkingthe right way, but he was very
confused on well, it hasn'tmanifested into a complaint, it
hasn't manifested onto anything.
And I said no, you've got tointerject that, you've got to
get there before that.
I just don't know your thoughtson that.
Hunter Rankin (11:16):
So I think that's it's a very uncomfortable
area for everybody, because Ithink a lot of people don't know
what they can do either.
I think a lot of people don'tknow what they can do either.
You know, in this world of theworld that we live in right now,
you know HR is very, verystrong and very powerful in
organizations and you have to becareful of what you do, what
you say, what you ask.
(11:37):
So I think that may cause alittle bit of apprehension as
well, but, bottom line, you'relooking out for the safety of
your employee and we just needto put that fear aside and that
apprehension, and be courageousand actually address the issue.
(11:59):
And we became leaders for areason.
We know that there's going to beuncomfortable conversations, so
we have to start making thesenormal conversations just like
any other employee related issue, especially when you care about
your employees, you just needto sit them down and just be
straight with them and be likehey, look, um, you may not like
(12:22):
this, but I've noticed somethings here and I may be wrong,
I may be off base, but this iswhat I'm noticing and what can I
do to help you, because if youkeep going down this path.
It could have some badconsequences for you.
Travis Yates (12:37):
Yeah, call them out.
Yeah, you refer to thecourageous conversations we talk
about in our seminars and onething that sort of lit a fire in
this sergeant.
I say, listen, if you do asearch warrant tonight and he
makes some mistakes, are yougoing to talk to him?
He goes well, of course, likewell, man, this is no different.
This is no different, right, ifyou care about him, you've got
to get him in an office andyou've got to have a discussion
with him and, uh, I haven'theard back.
(12:59):
I think it went well, but soyou, you kept going down this
path, uh, hunter, and it gotreal bad, sort of what was the
culmination of that?
And then walk us through whatyour department did and any help
, if any, that they provided foryou.
Hunter Rankin (13:15):
Yeah, and you know I do have to say that I
work for a great agency and theyreally have even
administrations previous to thisone got on top of this issue,
maybe a little sooner thanothers, and they really started
putting mental wellness at theforefront, which wasn't the case
when I started.
And it's really good to workfor an agency like that and to
(13:37):
seeing other agencies start toget on board.
So for me, it just got to thepoint where, um, I just couldn't
handle it anymore.
Um, so I was dealing withpersonal issues.
So, of course, for me, alcoholalways affected me in the
(13:58):
relationship area.
So I either got into badrelationships or, you know, I I
saw red flags and I aimed forthem instead of steering away
from them, right?
So the, the girl that I waswith um, you know I had twins
with her and um, it got bad.
You know, when I met her, shewas a cop.
She ended up in ex-con by thetime we were done, um, so you
(14:21):
know we could do a whole podcastjust on that alone, but
essentially there were somethings.
Travis Yates (14:26):
I bet there were some fun times.
I know there's relationships,right.
We'll leave that for anotherday.
Hunter Rankin (14:31):
Yeah, we'll leave that for another day
because, yeah, that's a wholechapter.
So I mean, essentially, she hadmoved her drug dealer into her
house and was living with himand I could not, I couldn't
figure out how I was going toget my kids out of that
situation and, um, I just didn'thandle it, right, man.
(14:54):
So I started drinking reallyheavy one night and, um, I
called my brother and said heylook, I can't do this on my own.
I need help, I need you to takeme somewhere.
So he did.
He took me to this place up inthe Valley in Arizona and I met
this doctor.
(15:15):
And so weird the way thingshappen.
This doctor was a retiredsheriff sergeant out of LA
County and we had a really goodtalk and he told me.
He said, all right, I'm goingto get you through this, but I'm
telling you, when you get outof this, if you drink alcohol
again, you're going to die.
And I said, yeah, yeah, Ibelieve you, absolutely.
(15:35):
Like.
No way I would touch the stuffagain.
The whole time, in the back ofmy mind, I'm thinking, man, when
am I going to get out of here,because I haven't had a drink in
a couple hours and I need toget back to drinking.
So they convinced me to stay.
I stayed like two or three daysin a detox and that third day,
(15:57):
when they move you onto thefloor, I met with the intake
person and I basically told himright, I'm ready to go home.
You know I'm cured, I'm good,you know I'm dried out.
Basically told him right, I'mready to go home.
You know I'm cured, I'm good,you know I'm dried out.
He said, no, you need to stay.
And I said, no, I'm, I'm good,like uh just had a bad day, like
I'll be able to handle it.
So I left against medicaladvice and uh they've only heard
(16:17):
that a million times before.
Travis Yates (16:19):
Right, right.
Hunter Rankin (16:21):
Yep, but it was going to be different this time,
right, so I left, ama, got aride home from my dad.
When I did leave, the peoplethat I talked to when I left
they did say hey, you're on abunch of hospital medication
right now.
Do not drink, if you drinkyou're going to die.
(16:41):
I said not a problem.
So my dad dropped me off.
I said not a problem.
So my dad dropped me off.
I walked through the front doorand I went to the refrigerator
and I opened it and I grabbed abeer and started drinking.
So I don't know, six pack in,I'm on alcohol, hospital
medication.
Then the texting starts.
You know I'm texting her to say, hey, we got to fix this, we
(17:05):
got to figure this out.
I can't have my kids around him.
I can't do this.
Well, fast forward, I'm on allthis hospital medication, my
normal prescription pills that Iuse, and it just it becomes a
blur Right what I think and I'mstill not convinced.
(17:27):
One way or the other.
I don't know if I tried to killmyself or I just didn't care if
I died.
I basically texted her and said, hey, well, you know, it looks
like you got it figured out.
You and your boyfriend can takecare of the.
You know, take care of the kids.
Thanks a lot.
And I went to my chair and Isat down and I was content with
going to sleep and I hear it waslike just one of those dreams
(17:50):
where you know you're kind of inand out and I could hear this
knocking noise.
So I opened the front door andit's it's a city cop that I know
and he's standing.
He was a Sergeant and he'sstanding there and I was like
what's up, man?
And he goes.
Hey, you know, she called.
I guess you guys are havingsome issues and she's kind of
(18:10):
worried that you might want tohurt yourself.
And I said I'm good man.
I said you know she's crazy andshe's just trying to get me in
trouble.
It's all good, dude.
He's like okay, you don't needanything.
I said, no, I'm good.
And he left, shut the door andI went back and sat back down on
my chair and I was contentagain.
So again I get.
(18:31):
I get woken up by this loudbanging and knocking and, uh,
later find out it was about anhour and a half worth of
knocking.
Um, that I finally responded to.
I opened the door.
It's the same sergeant andabout four or five officers and
he says hey, we saw the textsand I said come on in, so I sit
(18:54):
down.
Travis Yates (18:56):
You knew this would be a longer conversation
at this point.
Hunter Rankin (18:58):
Yeah, yeah.
So I sit down, fire shows up,meds show up and next thing I
know I'm loaded up and I'm on myway to the hospital now you
have to have a lot of thingsgoing on in your mind because
this could affect your job,could affect your status.
Travis Yates (19:13):
That's got to be a big concern at this point,
right amongst other thingsyou're dealing with yeah, it was
well.
Hunter Rankin (19:18):
Of course, at the time I was drunk and high
off my ass, so, uh, thoseweren't as serious at the moment
, but they were definitely there.
I was like I've got tocooperate, I've got to do
exactly what I'm supposed to doto be able to get out of this
Right.
So it's definitely there, um,but I spent the next couple of
days, uh, in the hospitaltotally unconscious, like I was
(19:41):
just out of it.
Um, I come to I don't know,maybe on day three, and uh, my
dad and brother were in the roomwith me and I was kind of
confused where I was, what wasgoing on.
But a case manager was thereand said you know, we're sending
you to a psych ward.
I was like I'm not going to apsych ward, like you're out of
your mind, like I need to gohome.
(20:02):
And he probably gave me thefirst kind of slap of reality
where he says, okay, well then,I'm going to petition you.
If I petition you, your job'snot going to like this.
And that set off that bell,that crap.
He's right, okay, I'll signwhere I need to sign.
So I went to, I went to a psychhospital for a couple of days
(20:24):
psych ward for a couple of days,and that was an interesting
experience, I can tell you that.
But while I was in there, mybrother, who works for the
agency as well, showed up and hehad a packet of paperwork and
basically said hey, the sheriffand the chief wanted me to come
bring you this and tell you, youknow, to sign this, they're
(20:45):
going to help you out with FMLA,but you're going to rehab.
And I said, no, man, I'm notgoing to rehab.
Like, what are you talkingabout?
Like, I probably have to behere a couple of days.
Travis Yates (20:56):
You already graduated from rehab just a few
days earlier.
Hunter Rankin (20:59):
Yeah, I'm cured now Remember.
Travis Yates (21:01):
I'm dry, I'm good.
Yeah, this time.
Hunter Rankin (21:02):
I'm dry, I'm good.
Travis Yates (21:03):
Yeah.
Hunter Rankin (21:03):
It's time when I get home it's going to be
different.
I swear, uh.
So you know.
He tells me.
He said, hey, they said this isthe only way that you come out
of this.
Okay, and again I went.
I do have my kids to thinkabout, my career, my legacy, you
know all this shit.
And uh, so I signed him andsaid, all right, well, I'll do
(21:26):
what I got to do.
And he says, but don't worry,you know, we found a place that
only takes um soldiers and cops.
I'm like okay that's I can dealwith that, that's my people, you
know.
So I think it was the next day,um again, my poor dad man
dealing with his 36 year oldbaby, um, standing there, you
(21:50):
know, with my bags packed, andoff to Palm Springs.
We went and you know, I gotthere, got checked in and and
quickly realized it was not aplace for just military and cops
.
But they knew what I needed tohear to help me just take that
next little step to get there.
(22:11):
They knew, once I got there I'dbe all right.
But it was that fear, you know,of going in with normal people
and having to admit that, hey,I'm a cop and I have to be in
here with you guys, which I'lltell you ended up being being
the best thing for me in theworld was doing it that way.
(22:31):
But back to one of the thingsyou said about the agency and
the support.
But back to one of the thingsyou said about the agency and
the support.
They were huge in getting me towhere I was at and allowing me
to recover and continue on withmy career, because I was a
lieutenant on probation Wow,they didn't look at me as just
(23:00):
an employee, as just anothernumber.
They looked at me as the personand what I had done in my
career up to that point andrealizing that, you know, some
of it could have been from thecareer itself, as to why I was
in the position I was in, as towhy a lot of us get into this is
because of the profession thatwe've chosen, the service that
we give to our communities andthe help that we don't get from
(23:22):
our agencies, for whateverreason, right Even the ones that
are trying hard.
We haven't figured.
I don't think we've figured itout yet.
I don't think we've figured theformula out on how exactly do
we perfect this to help peoplenot go down this path?
Travis Yates (23:39):
Well, you know, there's a, there's a divide here
, because this point you'retalking about is where courage
and cowards intersect, and thecowardly thing to do is he's
lieutenant on probation, whichthose of you that don't know
what that means, that means theycould just get rid of you
regardless, demote you,discipline you.
There's no, you have thatperiod where it's sort of a test
period and they would, you knowso the cowards were doing, they
(24:00):
would just cut you.
You've been gone, you've beenunemployed.
Let's let's compile thoseproblems on these other problems
.
But what the what thecourageous people do is they go.
Let's look at the whole person.
Let's look at his.
Let's not judge this guy bythis, these, this one event.
What has he done in his timehere?
What has he contributed here?
Is he salvageable?
And is it our duty to salvagehim and to rehabilitate him?
(24:20):
Because it's probably some ofour responsibility on why he got
here in the first place?
So you were very fortunate tobe in that position, because so
many people I'm sure you knowthe stories as well that the
easy road is just taken right,and so you had to have an
incredible feeling of gratitudeonce you came out from the other
side of that right oh,absolutely, it was immense.
Hunter Rankin (24:41):
um, you know they're that chief and sheriff
are no longer here and, uh, Istill have just such a profound
amount of respect for thembecause of how they helped me
personally, because if theywould have taken the other route
, if they would have gone downthat road and cut me and sent me
(25:05):
packing, I don't know whatwould have happened to me,
because I was already in such afragile condition and making
very poor decisions.
I don't know if I'd havesurvived it.
Travis Yates (25:18):
honestly, yeah, what is such an important note
is is all the things you've donesince then wouldn't have even
happened, right, and all theinfluence you're having on
nation's law enforcement todaywouldn't have even happened.
So I want all the leaders tolisten to this, to think about
that, like, don't just thinkabout an event in time.
Think about what you're losingif you go down this path,
because obviously your agencynow, and the country, has gained
(25:40):
an incredible resource with youtelling this story.
Hunter Rankin (25:45):
Yeah, and, and that's you know that, that's
what I started looking at earlyon was I'm still here for a
reason, and what is that reason?
I'm still here for a reason,and what is that reason?
And if I don't tell my story,if I don't make myself
vulnerable because I guaranteeyou, there's people out there
that are judging me, there'speople that don't agree with my
(26:05):
message, there's people thatdon't agree with us talking
about this, and that's okay.
If I can help one person eithernot go down this path, or if
they do find themselves on thispath, I can help them get off
that path.
That's what it was for.
I think I went through this tobe able to help more people, and
(26:26):
so I've got to tell my story,I've got to get it out there.
Travis Yates (26:30):
Yeah, I can't agree with you more.
You know, sometimes when thebad things happen, we just chalk
it up as bad luck, or it's justyou know, or maybe I'm a
knucklehead no pun intended butI think we have to look at it in
a different way.
Is there's always a reasonthings happen?
I mean, the Bible tells us thatright to those that are chosen.
I mean there's a reason whythese things happen.
The problem is we're not alwaystold the reason until years
(26:53):
later.
But I think it became veryclear to you early on.
This is why I went through this.
I can then help others becauseyou speak from a level of
credibility that so many peoplecan, and so you made the
decision to go public with thisabout a year or so ago with my
mass ride, and your firstarticle you wrote was called the
Duty of Drinking.
You've written a series ofother articles on LawOfficercom
and your own website, Hunter.
(27:14):
We'll put the link in the shownotes.
You probably had to have sortof a debate with yourself on
whether you were going to dothat because, like you said,
that can bring on additionalcriticism and additional trauma,
so to speak.
So just kind of walk us throughyour decision to.
Actually, I'm going to use thisexperience to help others.
Hunter Rankin (27:31):
Right.
So in uh, you know when, when Igot out of rehab, um, I
actually lived in sober livingfor a couple months after that
as well, in California, andthat's where you do that fast.
They call it 90 and 90, 90meetings in 90 days.
Well, I did more than that.
So I really was involved in theAA community and that's one of
(27:55):
their biggest messages there isit's the recovered, or
recovering alcoholics.
You know duty to bring thismessage to others and to help as
many others as we can.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
So that was kind of always in my head.
Hunter Rankin (28:09):
And so as I got further away from it, I got back
into the routine of the job.
I started thinking, okay, buthow can I make this bigger?
So I helped, you know, get ourwellness program kind of
revamped off the ground, put atraining program together and I
did a video for that training ofnot of course it wasn't my full
(28:32):
story, but basically anabbreviated version of it Showed
it at the beginning of everytraining for the whole agency
and some of the outside agencies.
And I got a lot of positivefeedback on it, and so that was
kind of my first inclination,that, ok, so maybe I can make
this bigger, maybe I can do thismore more Started speaking in
(28:58):
classes, being honest withpeople, being vulnerable,
telling them my story, and got alot of good response from that.
Started getting asked by somelocal organizations to come
speak at some of their events.
So I did some of those Hugepositive feedback.
So I'm thinking, all right,this is something I gotta do and
I gotta try to get to as big ascale as I can or as big an
(29:21):
audience as I can, because we'reout there everywhere, right?
Um, alcohol, you know,alcoholism doesn't discriminate.
It doesn't matter who you are,what you do, it can get you.
Um.
So then I started having peoplecome to me I'm talking line
(29:41):
level people, um, that werecoming to me saying I need help.
Um, can you point me in theright direction, can you?
I know your story, um, and Iknow that, like because
everybody's worried, like I knowI'm totally jumping chain of
command here, and I'm like, yeah, chain of command doesn't exist
, right, this kind of stuff, man, let me help you.
(30:03):
So it was kind of a culminationof all of those things where I
was.
Like you know, I've got to dosomething more with this and not
just keep it to.
You know this, this localcommunity, I've got to get it
out there, my message out.
Travis Yates (30:16):
There is as much as far as I can, I guess yeah, I
want to encourage everybody tohit that link up because you've
written several of thosearticles.
They sort of built on eachother.
You wrote one recently calledwe eat our own and I thought
that was so fascinating kind oftalk, talk about that with our
audience on on sort of themessaging behind that yeah, and
you know it kind of goes back towhat we were talking about
(30:36):
before.
Hunter Rankin (30:37):
There's a little bit of that in there about, you
know, the supervisors notknowing how to talk to their
subordinates that are struggling.
Man, we're one of the worstprofessions at.
It is we just tear each otherup when we make the simplest
mistake and a lot of it'sgood-natured ribbing fun, but
(30:58):
some of it's not, you know, andwe forget what it was like to be
that new guy, to be that rookiejust wanting to do good, and
you've got these senior guysthat are coming down on you and
making fun of you and you can'tdo anything right, and it goes
beyond constructive.
It's not a constructiveconversation.
It's meant to belittle and teardown, and so I think what
(31:24):
happens is to some people, thatjust naturally ingrains that
don't ask for help, because ifyou ask for help, you're going
to get made fun of, you're goingto be ostracized, you're going
to be known as those guys overthere, the slugs or the lame
ones or whatever.
So when you find yourselfstruggling for real, that's in
(31:46):
the back of your mind, Like man.
These guys ate me up when youknow I filled out a toe sheet
wrong.
So what are they going to saywhen I come?
Tell them, hey, I'm not strongenough to stop drinking on my
own, Okay, Well, we can't trustthis guy.
He's, he's a sissy.
Um, I can't trust him, for youknow to, as backup, I'm not
(32:07):
going to go through a door withthem.
You know, all those thoughtsstart going through your mind
and you don't want to be knownas that guy.
And I think it's because of theway we treat ourselves in the
beginning, and and and I'm notsaying that some of it isn't
warranted, and I mean I was amotor and I mean I don't know if
there's any more shit talkingin the unit, you know, than a
(32:28):
motor unit, but you've got tomake sure that it's balanced and
and that eventually it,eventually it's constructive in
nature.
Otherwise we breed this intoour own, to where they're so
scared to ask for help thatthey'll just ride it into the
ground.
Travis Yates (32:48):
Well, hunter, it's so inspirational on your story
and what you've been able to do.
I want everybody you know somany people that listen to this
maybe it's not that story, butthey have other stories right?
I want to encourage everybodyto try to turn what may be seen
as a negative into helpingothers, cause that's really what
we're here to do.
Right?
You mentioned legacy earlier.
We're here to do that.
We can't miss that, so to speak, and you're doing such
(33:12):
incredible things at your agencyand now nationwide.
You're doing such incrediblethings at your agency and now
nationwide.
Hunter Rankin (33:20):
How can people reach out to you for questions
or how can they see what you'redoing so they can reach out to
me at my email, it's54adamconsultingcom
54adamconsultingcom.
They can reach me there for anyquestions, any advice, anything
you want me to share, anythingI've missed.
(33:41):
There's been a couple of peoplethat have reached out on some
of the articles that havesuggested some topics, and I
really appreciate that too,because I do want to hit on
things that you all want to knowabout yeah, we're going to get
your website up pretty soon.
Travis Yates (33:56):
But if you just don't remember any of this, you
reach out to me direct.
I'll get you over to Hunter.
We'll connect you up.
We've got each other's cellphones and if he said it's okay,
I'll just send that over to you, but just there's a way to
reach him.
Don't worry about all that.
Hunter Rankin (34:08):
Yeah, and I'm on .
I'm on LinkedIn, yeah, soInstagram, facebook, just under
my name, hunter Rankin, so I'mreachable by all of those as
well.
Travis Yates (34:19):
Hunter Rankin man, I can't thank you enough.
I mean, we always have a greattime when I see you and get to
talk to you.
This has been a blast.
Thank you for what you do andthanks for coming on.
Hunter Rankin (34:30):
Thank you, man, I really appreciate it.
Travis Yates (34:32):
And if you've been listening, you've been watching
.
Thank you for doing that.
And just remember lead on andstay courageous.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Thank you for listening to Courageous
Leadership with Travis Yates.
We invite you to join othercourageous leaders at www.
travisyates.
org.
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