November 19, 2024 • 33 mins
Join us for an engaging conversation with Chief Thomas Weitzel, a retired police chief with a profound 37-year career in law enforcement. Chief Weitzel offers a detailed account of his journey, from his early days at a private-public police agency at Brookfield Zoo to his role as the chief of Riverside, Illinois. Through his personal stories and experiences, he reveals how a life-threatening incident early in his career shaped his resilience and leadership style. Discover how he maneuvered the complexities of supporting officers, and learn the vital importance of building strong relationships with both elected officials and the community.
Chief Weitzel openly discusses the hurdles of navigating police leadership amid political pressures and societal changes. He sheds light on the intricate dynamics of ensuring job security while maintaining transparency with the community.
Mentioned Article On Chief Weitzel's critical incident.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Courageous Leadership with Travis Yates,
where leaders find the insights,advice and encouragement they
need to lead courageously.
Travis Yates (00:11):
Welcome back to the show.
I'm so honored you decided tospend a few minutes with us here
today, and we have an awesomeguest today.
Tremendous amount of experience, I think it's really something
we can all learn from, so I hopeyou stick with us through the
entire episode.
On today's show we have ChiefThomas Weitzel.
He retired in 2021 for 37 yearsof service.
(00:34):
He's a nationally certifiedethics instructor.
He holds a master's degree incriminal justice from Lewis
University and is a graduate ofnumerous leadership schools,
including session 218 of the FBINational Academy.
His resume is long.
He's a volunteer ambassador forthe National Law Enforcement
Memorial Fund.
Much more he's been involved in.
(00:55):
We're certainly interested inlearning from him today.
Tom, how are you doing, sir?
Thomas Weitzel (01:00):
I'm doing fantastic.
Thank you for having me sir,I'm doing fantastic.
Travis Yates (01:08):
Thank you for having me.
Well, you know, it's alwaysseemed strange to me that people
like us I believe you werechief for over 13 years and
obviously you have 37 years ofservice that people just kind of
retire and that's kind of it.
And I really have often thoughtthat there's so much we can
learn from individuals such asyourself and others that have
invested so much and given somuch to this profession.
But you've stayed pretty activeafter retirement.
(01:29):
So I guess the first questionis walk us through your career.
I want to get to a seminalevent about three years into
your career, so maybe jump overthat for now, but kind of walk
us through your career and thenwe'll kind of get to what you're
doing now.
Thomas Weitzel (01:42):
Yeah, so I started my career actually, for
in Illinois they have a privatepublic police agency.
It was actually through theChicago Zoological Society at
Brookfield Zoo.
They were fully certifiedpolice officers but it was more
of a private than it was public.
Your jurisdiction was just ontheir grounds.
I started there, probably 22.
(02:06):
And then I started testinglocally and I ended up in
Riverside, which was adjacent toBrookfield, and I worked 37
years and I've held everyposition there.
I started as a patrol officer,was after 15 years, promoted the
patrol sergeant.
I did six years as the patrolsergeant, I did six years as the
detective sergeant, I went toan operations lieutenant to the
(02:30):
deputy chief and then I even dida stint as acting chief until
the elected officials inRiverside decided what way they
wanted to go, because there was,you know, they were going to do
a national search.
And it's kind of funny.
They came to me and said, hey,Tom, we're going to spend these
(02:51):
big dollars to do a nationalsearch to find a new chief.
Would you be willing to put infor it?
And I said nope, I've workedhere for 25.
You know me, you know.
I said you know, I don't thinkthat's the way to go.
And about three days later thecurrent, the politicians and
then our city manager came tosee me and said okay, what does
(03:13):
it take for us to put you inthat position?
So then we negotiated anemployment contract for me.
But you know, initially I had avery difficult time that they
were going to spend all thismoney and do this national
search.
Riverside is a suburbancommunity of Chicago and I, you
know, they had known me insideand out and I'm glad that they
(03:38):
decided not to do that.
Travis Yates (03:40):
Yeah, and it's so often that department cities do
that right, it's almost to looklike they're doing some national
search, even though they wantsomebody that they take.
So it's not the right decisionto make.
But you lasted there, I believe, 13 years as chief.
That is not an easy thing to do.
What was the secret?
Because you know most chiefsare, you know they don't last
that long in that position.
Very stressful position, verytough position.
Thomas Weitzel (04:10):
Kind of what was the secret to your success with
that lasting that long?
Yeah, so you're right, it was along time, especially in
Illinois.
I mean, I think that 10 yearsmost chiefs is like four to five
years, but I had a really good.
The citizens in RiversideIllinois are very supportive of
the police.
The elected officials were verysupportive in almost all cases
and our village manager was aswell.
And you know, when I was firsthired, the very first village
(04:31):
president I worked on, he cameto my office and he said like
how are you going to make surethat we as elected officials
stay updated on what's going onin your agency and in the crime
but yet still have this bufferwhere our elected officials
aren't trying to intercede inpolicing?
And I said you know what, MrMayor?
(04:52):
I said good policing is goodpolitics.
And he looked at me and he'slike what I said, as long as my
agency does its job and I keepyou informed as to what is
happening, probably before itmakes it to the media, they
always like that, you knowthings will work out.
And I tell you that held truefor me.
(05:13):
I never had one of my electedofficials ever come and try to
intervene in a police-relatedissue, they would only ask me
for information, and that's kindof a rarity in today's world.
Travis Yates (05:27):
Yeah, unfortunately, you're right, it
certainly is.
It seems like the more they tryto interject politics into it,
we've gotten to where we aretoday, so that's been a dramatic
change.
Now, tom, I think it's veryimprobable.
You led the career you had.
You had an event that happenedas a young officer that really
could have derailed that.
Talk us through that and howyou came out the other end of
that.
Thomas Weitzel (05:48):
Yeah.
So in August of 1987, I wasshot in the line of duty and I
didn't really talk about ituntil after I retired, for
several reasons I'll get into ina minute.
But my shooting was thisincident where it was 3 o'clock
in the morning, we used singlepatrol vehicles in Riverside.
At that time I was by myself.
(06:09):
There was a car parkedillegally no big deal, something
I deal with every day.
I got out of the car to go upand get a VIN number off of it
because it had no license plateson it and the windows were
darkened.
And as I got out of my patrolvehicle, when I got to the front
of my vehicle, the back door ofthat car literally rolled open
(06:35):
and the offender rolled out likeyou'd see some military roll.
And I heard the slide of thepunk shotgun.
You never, you know, you knowthat sound.
And I was shot just like that.
And I heard the slide of thepunk shotgun.
You never, you know, you knowthat sound.
And I was shot just like that.
And I was shot with birdshot.
So it spread and the birdshothit my bulletproof vest.
At that time it sprayed into myeyes and mouth.
(06:58):
So I had, I survived thatshooting.
But what had happened?
It lifted me off the ground andit threw me against my squad
car and I hit my head againstthe bumper and knocked me out.
It also cut my police radio inhalf, so the portable radio that
I had on me the wire connectingthe radio from my hip to the
(07:18):
lapel mic was shredded so Icouldn't call for help when I
woke up, like about a minutelater shredded, so I couldn't
call for help.
When I woke up, like about aminute later, and I believe they
walked over me and probablythought I was dead, because that
was probably 10 feet betweentheir car and where they shot me
and it was point blank right inmy chest, threw me up and when
(07:40):
I woke I had to crawl back to mysquad car and use the police
radio that was in the squaditself and I had to call for
help.
And you know I was.
I was amazed I was even able todo that.
But yeah, so I was treated.
I was taken to the hospital.
I was treated for broken ribs,internal bleeding, eye injuries
(08:03):
and some blood vessels hadbroken throughout my entire neck
area and chest area.
So I was in the hospital forabout three days and then I was
released.
Travis Yates (08:15):
Wow, not many people get to tell a story like
that, point blank with a shotgunThank God that was birdshot and
you had a vest on.
But I had a friend get killedwith birdshot chief close range
but he was not wearing a vest,man.
So I have to think that thatprobably dictated how you
(08:39):
operated as a chief as you wentthrough the ranks.
You had an experience there.
You had the aftermath of thatexperience with the city and the
agency.
How did that help you navigateother critical incidents that
would occur when you were inleadership positions?
Thomas Weitzel (08:53):
Yeah, you know, riverside wasn't ready.
It's the first police officerthat ever had shot in the line
of duty.
They didn't really have goodsupport.
The officers were fantastic.
The leadership just didn't knowwhat to do, quite frankly.
So I me and my wife kind of hadto navigate this situation, and
I had, as it happened, I wasscheduled for vacation like
(09:16):
three days after the shootinghad taken place, so they allowed
me to do that to postpone it.
But I had to go through allthis medical testing and
psychological testing to returnto work.
But they didn't send me theprofessionals that could handle
police officers.
I was being sent to a localhospital with a psychologist
that had no experience at all,and then they put me under to
(09:41):
help try to find the offenders.
They wanted to put me underhypnosis and I said, sure,
that's fine.
Well, they, they contractedwith a doctor that had no skill
at all in hypnosis and no, youknow treating of police officers
and first responders.
He literally kind of tried tolead me down the road by saying
(10:03):
stuff like the car was greenright, like no, the car wasn't
green, the car was green right.
I said no, the car wasn't greenand actually wrote me up as
uncooperative.
So I'll never forget that.
And they just didn't know howto handle it.
So I wanted to make sure, if Iever got in a position of
leadership, that I would doeverything to support my
(10:26):
officers in these types ofsituations, any situation.
And it changed my philosophybecause there were a lot of
people that told me you know,tom, you should just stop
working.
I'm like I don't know, this ismy skill.
I went to college for it, Iwent to school for it, I'm a
police officer, I'm newlymarried, I'm going to have a
family.
I just can't get up and quit.
I mean, I just can't do that.
(10:48):
And even though my wife wantedme to and you know a funny story
about that bulletproof vest thevillage of Riverside didn't
provide vests.
Back then my wife purchased methat.
She bought me that vest when Ibecame a police officer as a
gift.
And back then it was a pointblank.
I don't know if you rememberthat was the name of the
bulletproof vest and a storybehind that is I didn't like the
(11:14):
way.
So my chief came to meafterwards.
He said hey, tom, point blank,contacted us and they're willing
to get by a bulletproof vestfor every single police officer
free because of your shooting Ifyou agree to do commercials for
them.
So what do you mean by that?
He's like, well, they want youto do print ads in police
(11:34):
magazines, police chiefmagazines, other magazines,
where you will tell your storyand they will, in turn, purchase
vests.
I'm like, I don't want topublicize this.
This is something I'm proud of.
And when he said, well, letthem send you the script, they
sent me this script, travis,this is an absolute truth.
(11:55):
And they embellished the story.
That didn't even happen.
They made it seem like I was insome type of gunfight and this
was 100% ambush.
And I told my chief then and Ionly had three years on the job,
I'm like no, chief, I'm notgoing to do this.
He's like he got very angry atme and said do you understand?
(12:16):
They will buy a bulletproofvest for every single officer If
you just do this.
I'm like, well, they're lying,they're making.
Just do this.
I'm like well, they're lying,they're, they're making, they're
embellishing this story fortheir benefit.
It's.
I'm not going to go on any newsprogram or I'm not going in any
print magazine.
And I'm telling you, the chiefheld it against me for the rest
(12:36):
of my till he retired well, yeah, because they're in a bad spot.
Travis Yates (12:39):
They're going to have to buy these vests and they
wanted to get it for nothing,right?
Thomas Weitzel (12:43):
and they did end up buying them.
Travis Yates (12:44):
You're correct oh, man, you're talking about risk
management, one-on-one.
We wait till an officer getsshot before we provide vests, my
goodness.
Um, well, yeah, I mean, I tendto agree.
I think many people, as youknow, chief, they leave the
profession after an event likethat and, uh, you, of course,
have gotten away through it.
You just recently startedtalking about it.
(13:05):
There was a great article inpolice one earlier this year,
and uh, I don't even know whatto say to it.
Obviously, it's, it's a prettyincredible story, but I'm sure,
certainly it shaped yourleadership style.
But you became chief in a veryunique time.
How did you see?
Just a minute, mel man came.
(13:26):
Give it a second.
Hey, all right here we go.
(13:49):
Yeah, chief, you became Chief ata very unique time, probably a
time that we would all hearkenback to.
I'm trying to go back to 13years since you retired, but
things got really weird around2012, 2013, 2014, and we really
haven't looked back.
Just give me your take on thatand how you sort of navigated
that, because the chief's jobwent from we're going to focus
(14:11):
on the mission, reducing crime.
That tends to keep citizenshappy of all political
backgrounds right, it certainlykeeps politicians happy.
Back in the day to to a timetoday where you can't even find
a chief getting in trouble forhigher crime like the mission
doesn't seem to be on theforefront.
There seems to be all theseexternal factors, and so maybe
you were in a great situationthere in riverside, or maybe you
(14:34):
weren't, but kind of, how didyou see that happening there
locally, and then what you sawnationally?
Thomas Weitzel (14:39):
Yeah, you know I was in a good position.
So when you know it's uncommonlike when I was promoted up to
chief, it's an appointment madeby the city manager, the village
manager, the elected officialsI had one requirement that I
wanted an employment contract,and they were like no, we're not
going to give you one.
You know, that's only foroutside chiefs that come in,
(15:01):
because if we don't like you ina year or two you can just go
back to your civil service rankof lieutenant.
So we're not.
I said well, I'm not taking thejob without that.
So we negotiated a con.
I got a lawyer, they got theirlawyer.
We negotiated every four yearsthe contract would be up and I
there was a clause that theycould fire me or reduce me for
just cause.
But I wanted some protectionbecause I didn't want to be the
(15:30):
type of chief that was going tostay out of the fray just
because my politicians didn'tlike it, and what I mean by that
.
It was a rough times there times.
Riverside is an upper middleclass community and most of our
violent crime came from the cityof Chicago.
We were west of the city ofChicago.
Our criminals would come west,they would commit violent crimes
and flee back east.
That was the absolute pattern.
That would happen all the timeand I was very open with the
(15:51):
media and I would put a lot ofpress releases out, or my
detectives would put pressreleases out.
We'd release mud shots.
We'd be very, very proactiveand some of the residents and
elected officials didn't like itbecause they thought it made
the village look crime riddenInstead of giving the residents
education about what's actuallygoing on and not lying to them
(16:15):
and giving them what's currentlyhappening and I always was of
the opinion Travis is how couldyou make proper safety decisions
for you and your family if thepolice department is not putting
out factual information Likehow do you do that?
So you know, I had to maneuverthrough that and luckily I had a
very good village manager thatsupported me and a very good
(16:37):
village president that supportedme.
But you know where I got a lotof the pushback was it's from
other police chiefs who actuallywere in their position because
they were politically appointedthere.
And I got to be honest with youif their mayor or city
president told them not to dosomething, they wouldn't do it,
even though it was the rightthing to do, and they would get.
(16:58):
I would get more pushback frommy colleagues sometimes than I
would from you know, myresidents or politicians, and I
could never figure that out,like why, why are you, why are
you my worst, you know, critic?
Travis Yates (17:14):
No, you, you hit the nail on the head right there
.
I mean, we talk aboutcourageous leadership.
It talks about hey, you justneed to do what's right, that
doesn't matter what some mayorsays or what some activist says,
what is right.
And I think they're in suchself-protection mode chief Me
myself and I protecting what Ihave.
We're seeing a an abjectfailure around the country
because, you're right, they'remore concerned about that than
(17:37):
actually taking care of thecitizens, which is extremely
ironic.
Thomas Weitzel (17:41):
Yeah, you know, once when I attended the FBI
National Academy in Quantico Iwas I went to this leadership
class for 12 weeks.
I was there, very well known inthe FBI ranks of, a Very well
known in the FBI ranks of, theinstructor was a highly
decorated helicopter pilot,Marine helicopter pilot, and saw
(18:02):
numerous combat.
His name was Tim Turner.
We sat in this stadium and I'mwhite, so Right, and I'm at the
top.
It was alphabetical, so you so.
You know, cops, none of us liketo sit towards the beginning.
You know how that is right.
They don't, they don't want tosit near the front of the class,
but I, they put us therealphabetically.
And one day he looked up at meand he said Mr Weitzel, come on
(18:26):
down here.
And I came all the way down andhe said you know how's it going
?
And I said I'm coasting, andhe's, and there's like two weeks
left of the academy, I had allmy papers in and he said what
did you just say?
And I said I'm coasting, he'slike.
And then he let him, he, heunleashed on me in front of the
(18:49):
whole class, which is 200 of usinternational students, and he
said don't you ever say coastingin front of me again.
He's like because you know what, Mr Whitesell, if you're
coasting, you're going downhilland you want to be a leader.
And he goes.
You don't ever want to godownhill, do you Tom?
And I'm like, oh no, I don't.
And then he built me back up.
(19:09):
After that he sent me back upand he's like he made this
example of me and then, while Iwas walking up the stairs back
to my seat, he said hey, Tom, doyou think leaders are born or
can we create leaders?
And I said I think you caneducate leaders and you can
build leaders.
He goes.
You know, I agree with you, hegoes.
(19:29):
The one thing you can't do, Tom, is charisma.
He goes.
Charisma, you're born with hegoes.
Leaders, you're born with, hegoes.
Leaders, I believe we candevelop.
And that was like anintroduction to me of leadership
.
I was like, well, that wasreally powerful.
Travis Yates (19:44):
Yeah, yeah, I wasn't too far behind you.
I was in 227.
So my math, probably two orthree years after you, and I
don't have a story like that.
I got stories I probably can'ttell.
But yeah, I don't have a storylike that.
I've got stories I probablycan't tell.
Very interesting time for sure,tom.
Even though you've been goneabout three years from the
profession, you've got to beshaking your head at what
(20:05):
continues to happen.
We go from recruiting issuesand retention issues.
Is it mainly what you just saidabout politics that's creating
this, or is there something elsegoing on?
We should discuss about it.
Thomas Weitzel (20:14):
It is politics.
You know there's no one thatcan be listening or watching
your podcast and doesn't knowthat the George Floyd incident
affected law enforcement,without a doubt.
Right, that was huge.
All three of my adult childrenare police officers in suburban
Chicago.
I hear it all the time.
They all have at least 10 yearson the job and some of them
(20:37):
want to leave the profession orthey want to leave the
department out of themetropolitan Chicago area and
get farther out away into reallysuburban policing.
And it's all because of the waythat politicians are interacting
with law enforcement, the waymedia organizations at least
some of them and the public andthese so-called activists who
(21:00):
want to just have a state oflike de-policing and no policing
at all, let alone defundpolicing.
And in Illinois, if any, youknow, there was this recent
article about well, defund thepolice is gone.
I wrote an op ed in the paperthat said it's not gone.
What's happening is ourpoliticians are defunding the
(21:20):
police through legislation andthe job is almost impossible to
do.
It's really Travis at times,impossible to defend yourself,
because no police officer wantsto be the next YouTube video.
Travis Yates (21:34):
Yeah, it's really a dangerous time when officers
are more concerned about you twothan they are about going home
at night, right, and we'reseeing that time and time again.
And what would be your adviceto a chief or somebody out there
with with that type ofauthority at an agency that's
maybe facing this externalpressure?
What kind of advice would yougive them?
Tom?
Thomas Weitzel (21:55):
You have to stand up, you have to lead.
You're a leader for a reasonLike when I was in my position,
I had deputy chiefs, lieutenants, all right.
They managed the department.
They managed the day-to-dayoperations, the police
department.
My job was to lead and setpolicy that's really what it was
and also to be out there.
You know these chiefs that stayin their office all day.
(22:17):
Travis, forget about that.
Those days are over.
If you're still one of thosedinosaurs, I don't even know how
you're surviving.
You need to be out there, youneed to communicate and you need
to have your facts too.
I always like to listen tochiefs or superintendents or
executives who could make theircase as to why something could
happen, but they weren't justtalking crap.
(22:39):
They had facts behind it, theyhad experience behind it and
they knew what they were talkingabout.
I think that carries a lot ofweight.
Travis Yates (22:48):
Yeah, and you've got to be principle-driven.
You've got to have core beliefsthat you won't come off of,
because if you don't have that,you're going to just blow with
the wind right, you'll cave into whatever's out there, and I
think we understand thephenomenon of why these chiefs
are acting that way.
But they have got to understandthey've been put in this place
during this time for a reason.
There's a huge responsibilityand you know leadership is the
(23:12):
answer.
You can overcome all of whatwe're talking about whether it's
recruiting, retention, lowmorale, people leaving the
profession with leadership, andI think the frustrating part,
chief, is they all know it intheir head, but we're not seeing
it practiced, and so I think itcomes down to principles.
If you were to talk about yourprinciples, chief, what kept you
steady, what kept you strong?
(23:33):
What would be the principlesthat you had that really
maintain your leadership focus?
What would be the principles?
Thomas Weitzel (23:38):
that you had that really maintain your
leadership focus.
You know I'm a person thatalways wanted to be a police
officer.
I went to Catholic grade schooland I used to run to the
windows when I heard a siren goby and the nun would have to
pull me back to my seat.
So I always wanted that and Ihad good mentors.
So I had.
I was always involved in policecircles.
(23:59):
My uncle was a police and firecommissioner where I grew up, so
I was in that.
You know that field, so to speak, and what I wanted is just to
be true to myself and I alwayswanted to never forget where I
came from as I grew up.
I know I think a lot of chiefsthey do they forget what it's
like.
Even sometimes I used to tellmy field training officers they
(24:23):
would get frustrated with newrecruits and I was like, hey,
you were sitting in that side ofthe squad eight years ago too.
Okay, like you have to, we needpatience.
We have as training officers.
You need to know that one ofthe best skills you can have is
patience.
But I always wanted to be trueto myself and to the beliefs
that I had, which were thatpolicing is, in my opinion, the
(24:46):
most honorable profession inAmerica and I truly believe that
.
It sounds corny, but Iabsolutely believe it.
Or I wouldn't have probably hadmy kids all go into this
profession.
You know, my wife is anaccountant and she, when all
three of my children were swornin as police officers, you know,
I thought she was going todivorce me.
So, but so you know, my wifesaid to me why can't one of them
(25:11):
be an accountant?
Because that's not what, that'snot what they want to do.
You know, and I encourage themto go in this profession and I,
I mentored them and I talked tothem about it all the time and
the rights and wrongs of what todo they.
You know, there's no such thingas a perfect police officer,
but you know, you know what yourNorth star is, you know, and
(25:34):
that's, that's the, that's theprinciple you have to keep.
You know.
I'll tell you a funny story.
My son was actually probably aserious story.
He when, he when what went downin Uvalde, texas, with that
school shooting.
Well, my son came to me.
My youngest son was a policeofficer here in Illinois.
He said you know, I always sawthat the officers waited 73
(25:56):
minutes and that theirsupervisors at times were
telling them don't advance,don't advance.
And my son turned to me at thedinner table and said you know,
dad, if my supervisor in thecommunity, he were told him
don't advance, wait, he goes.
I disregard his direct orderand I go down there and engage
(26:16):
them and he goes.
I might get shot, I might getkilled, but he goes.
I could live with myself and hegoes.
I don't care what mysupervisors did to me.
If I heard children beingslaughtered and those were his
words I'm advancing and I'm likethat's the kind of kid I wanted
to raise.
Travis Yates (26:32):
Yeah, that's the kind of leadership we need,
regardless of what anybody says,or does you have to do what's
right.
And, Tom, I think there's somuch in the success you've had
and I did want to talk to you.
I think you alluded to it.
But one of the things that bugsme a lot with a lot of these
leaders today is they'll saythings like well, I have an open
door policy, right?
Well, I'm thinking to myselfwell, who's coming to your door?
(26:54):
So how did you deal with that?
I have a feeling you were veryinvolved throughout your
department.
You would go to their doors,Talk to our audience about that.
Thomas Weitzel (27:02):
Yeah, without a doubt.
So my office was directlyoutside of the roll call room to
begin with and I would go outon the street.
I would answer calls with myofficers.
I would meet them in theparking lot, I would.
I would call them to meet me ina public parking lot.
We could talk for them to cometo me.
(27:22):
You know, patrol officers,detectives, are kind of
reluctant to do that, so youreally should go to them.
But I did that with routinebecause I had a sergeant that I
tried to mentor myself after.
You know, you probably haveworked in organizations where
the officers like when we didpick, so we could pick shifts by
(27:43):
seniority and sometimes I wouldtake the worst shift just
because that sergeant was on theshift.
Because I knew this sergeantknew what he was doing, was a
leader and you know policeofficers will follow leaders and
I there were.
I could have been on day shift,maybe it had a better shift,
but this born leader was onmidnights and I wanted to work
(28:06):
for him and I would pick thoseshifts because I wanted to be on
his shift and that's the typeof leadership I wanted to
portray when I was chief and Iwanted my officers to know that
I'll come to you.
I mean, we would hold a rollcall in public before it was
even something to do, but Iwould always go out and see my
(28:28):
officers daily and I would comein.
So I would work midnight shifts.
I would come in and work, forexample, christmas Eve.
I would come in and work NewYear's Eve, just so the officers
knew I was there and I wasn'tthis chief that was sitting in
some ivory tower and I'm betterthan you and I did that with
frequency.
Travis Yates (28:50):
Yeah, without even asking you, were there 13 years
.
That has to do a lot to do withit, with the trust you built
with your officers, and peoplemisunderstand trust, because
trust isn't automatic.
You have to trust them beforethey'll even begin to trust you,
and that's one of the easiestway to do.
It is what you're talking aboutnow, chief.
One of the things that hasevolved greatly in the last
(29:10):
decade is technology and, uh,you, you face this yourself.
What type of balance did youhave?
Because I think there's adanger in technology to where we
can over rely on it and we getaway from that interpersonal
leadership that we all know iseffective.
Tell us about the balance thatyou use when it came to the
technology your agency used andthe interpersonal relationships
(29:31):
that you needed.
Thomas Weitzel (29:33):
Yeah, you know we all got lazy as chiefs and
commanders and we started tolead by email and you know
officers hate that.
There are some things you haveto put out by that.
But I tried to stay away fromthat.
We were the size departmentwhere you could either my deputy
chief or my patrol commander,me could go to roll call.
I would personally go,especially if there was an
(29:53):
important new policy or a newprocedure we were putting up.
But you know I would always askthem I'm like here, here's the
pursuit policy we're going toput out.
What do you think Like?
Give me some feedback on thisand yes, our village attorney
wrote it along with you know myinput and stuff.
But give us practicalities.
(30:13):
So I like to do the one-on-onecommunication.
So I like to do the one on onecommunication.
I wasn't the chief that you knowshied away from that and if
(30:36):
they had criticism, they allknow what you did, what idiot
things you did as patrolman,right.
And now you're sitting as a, asa, as a chief, and sometimes
you have to dole out somediscipline and you know that's
to me.
That's a harder road to walksometimes and I had to terminate
officers I worked with becausetheir actions were just too
egregious worked with.
(30:56):
Because their actions were justtoo egregious Mine were not
duty related.
Unfortunately, policemensometimes have some of their
worst decisions made in theiroff duty conduct.
So, and you know, I wanted to begetting back to that open and
transparent Like that was like asuch a tagline Right, so I
never used it.
I just wanted to be the chieffrom within the department that
(31:18):
will listen to you and I'll goout and I'll go to your roll
call and I'll come to yourmeeting.
And there's one thing, travis,too I always did, no matter how
minor your injury was, becauseover my 13 years as chief I had
officers injured in the line ofduty, from broken legs to broken
wrists, to serious caraccidents.
I always came in, I always wentto the hospital.
(31:40):
He could have a broken wristand I left my home at 2 o'clock
in the morning and I drove tothat hospital and made an
appearance so that her familyand my officers knew I was there
.
It didn't have to belife-threatening.
Travis Yates (31:53):
Yeah, yeah, that was always my rule.
My commanders would always say,well, we're not going to call
you unless it's last rate, and Isaid, no, no, they're going to
the hospital.
I want to know because you'reright, it doesn't take long to
get up, drive to the hospital,see him for five or 10 minutes
and make sure there.
I mean that means a lot andthat's really, really important.
Thomas Weitzel (32:12):
Yeah, without a doubt, and I think officers
build trust and they tell alltheir officers and it does show
you care, you know.
So I mean I was out of state inMichigan and one of my officers
is involved in a shooting wherehe shot the offender, didn't
kill the offender.
At that time I was at a weddingreception in Michigan with my
(32:35):
wife.
I put my wife in the car, weleft that wedding reception,
drove all the way back toRiverside probably about a
six-hour drive and I went to thescene and then I went from
there to where they took theofficer for the shooting to the
hospital, because that's justwhat you do.
If you're not a chief doingthat, then you shouldn't have
that position.
Travis Yates (32:55):
Tom, I wish I could bottle this up.
Man, we're going to have tohave you back on.
Chief Tom Wetzel, I can't thankyou enough for being here.
Please keep speaking out,because your knowledge is
powerful and many, many peopleneed it.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
Thomas Weitzel (33:10):
Thank you so much for having me.
I thoroughly enjoyed it.
Travis Yates (33:13):
If you've been watching or you've been
listening.
Thank you for doing that.
And just remember lead on andstay courageous.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Thank you for listening to Courageous
Leadership with Travis Yates.
We invite you to join othercourageous leaders at www.
travisyates.
org.
Welcome to Courageous Leadership with Travis Yates,
where leaders find the insights,advice and encouragement they
need to lead courageously.
Travis Yates (00:11):
Welcome back to the show.
I'm so honored you decided tospend a few minutes with us here
today, and we have an awesomeguest today.
Tremendous amount of experience, I think it's really something
we can all learn from, so I hopeyou stick with us through the
entire episode.
On today's show we have ChiefThomas Weitzel.
He retired in 2021 for 37 yearsof service.
(00:34):
He's a nationally certifiedethics instructor.
He holds a master's degree incriminal justice from Lewis
University and is a graduate ofnumerous leadership schools,
including session 218 of the FBINational Academy.
His resume is long.
He's a volunteer ambassador forthe National Law Enforcement
Memorial Fund.
Much more he's been involved in.
(00:55):
We're certainly interested inlearning from him today.
Tom, how are you doing, sir?
Thomas Weitzel (01:00):
I'm doing fantastic.
Thank you for having me sir,I'm doing fantastic.
Travis Yates (01:08):
Thank you for having me.
Well, you know, it's alwaysseemed strange to me that people
like us I believe you werechief for over 13 years and
obviously you have 37 years ofservice that people just kind of
retire and that's kind of it.
And I really have often thoughtthat there's so much we can
learn from individuals such asyourself and others that have
invested so much and given somuch to this profession.
But you've stayed pretty activeafter retirement.
(01:29):
So I guess the first questionis walk us through your career.
I want to get to a seminalevent about three years into
your career, so maybe jump overthat for now, but kind of walk
us through your career and thenwe'll kind of get to what you're
doing now.
Thomas Weitzel (01:42):
Yeah, so I started my career actually, for
in Illinois they have a privatepublic police agency.
It was actually through theChicago Zoological Society at
Brookfield Zoo.
They were fully certifiedpolice officers but it was more
of a private than it was public.
Your jurisdiction was just ontheir grounds.
I started there, probably 22.
(02:06):
And then I started testinglocally and I ended up in
Riverside, which was adjacent toBrookfield, and I worked 37
years and I've held everyposition there.
I started as a patrol officer,was after 15 years, promoted the
patrol sergeant.
I did six years as the patrolsergeant, I did six years as the
detective sergeant, I went toan operations lieutenant to the
(02:30):
deputy chief and then I even dida stint as acting chief until
the elected officials inRiverside decided what way they
wanted to go, because there was,you know, they were going to do
a national search.
And it's kind of funny.
They came to me and said, hey,Tom, we're going to spend these
(02:51):
big dollars to do a nationalsearch to find a new chief.
Would you be willing to put infor it?
And I said nope, I've workedhere for 25.
You know me, you know.
I said you know, I don't thinkthat's the way to go.
And about three days later thecurrent, the politicians and
then our city manager came tosee me and said okay, what does
(03:13):
it take for us to put you inthat position?
So then we negotiated anemployment contract for me.
But you know, initially I had avery difficult time that they
were going to spend all thismoney and do this national
search.
Riverside is a suburbancommunity of Chicago and I, you
know, they had known me insideand out and I'm glad that they
(03:38):
decided not to do that.
Travis Yates (03:40):
Yeah, and it's so often that department cities do
that right, it's almost to looklike they're doing some national
search, even though they wantsomebody that they take.
So it's not the right decisionto make.
But you lasted there, I believe, 13 years as chief.
That is not an easy thing to do.
What was the secret?
Because you know most chiefsare, you know they don't last
that long in that position.
Very stressful position, verytough position.
Thomas Weitzel (04:10):
Kind of what was the secret to your success with
that lasting that long?
Yeah, so you're right, it was along time, especially in
Illinois.
I mean, I think that 10 yearsmost chiefs is like four to five
years, but I had a really good.
The citizens in RiversideIllinois are very supportive of
the police.
The elected officials were verysupportive in almost all cases
and our village manager was aswell.
And you know, when I was firsthired, the very first village
(04:31):
president I worked on, he cameto my office and he said like
how are you going to make surethat we as elected officials
stay updated on what's going onin your agency and in the crime
but yet still have this bufferwhere our elected officials
aren't trying to intercede inpolicing?
And I said you know what, MrMayor?
(04:52):
I said good policing is goodpolitics.
And he looked at me and he'slike what I said, as long as my
agency does its job and I keepyou informed as to what is
happening, probably before itmakes it to the media, they
always like that, you knowthings will work out.
And I tell you that held truefor me.
(05:13):
I never had one of my electedofficials ever come and try to
intervene in a police-relatedissue, they would only ask me
for information, and that's kindof a rarity in today's world.
Travis Yates (05:27):
Yeah, unfortunately, you're right, it
certainly is.
It seems like the more they tryto interject politics into it,
we've gotten to where we aretoday, so that's been a dramatic
change.
Now, tom, I think it's veryimprobable.
You led the career you had.
You had an event that happenedas a young officer that really
could have derailed that.
Talk us through that and howyou came out the other end of
that.
Thomas Weitzel (05:48):
Yeah.
So in August of 1987, I wasshot in the line of duty and I
didn't really talk about ituntil after I retired, for
several reasons I'll get into ina minute.
But my shooting was thisincident where it was 3 o'clock
in the morning, we used singlepatrol vehicles in Riverside.
At that time I was by myself.
(06:09):
There was a car parkedillegally no big deal, something
I deal with every day.
I got out of the car to go upand get a VIN number off of it
because it had no license plateson it and the windows were
darkened.
And as I got out of my patrolvehicle, when I got to the front
of my vehicle, the back door ofthat car literally rolled open
(06:35):
and the offender rolled out likeyou'd see some military roll.
And I heard the slide of thepunk shotgun.
You never, you know, you knowthat sound.
And I was shot just like that.
And I heard the slide of thepunk shotgun.
You never, you know, you knowthat sound.
And I was shot just like that.
And I was shot with birdshot.
So it spread and the birdshothit my bulletproof vest.
At that time it sprayed into myeyes and mouth.
(06:58):
So I had, I survived thatshooting.
But what had happened?
It lifted me off the ground andit threw me against my squad
car and I hit my head againstthe bumper and knocked me out.
It also cut my police radio inhalf, so the portable radio that
I had on me the wire connectingthe radio from my hip to the
(07:18):
lapel mic was shredded so Icouldn't call for help when I
woke up, like about a minutelater shredded, so I couldn't
call for help.
When I woke up, like about aminute later, and I believe they
walked over me and probablythought I was dead, because that
was probably 10 feet betweentheir car and where they shot me
and it was point blank right inmy chest, threw me up and when
(07:40):
I woke I had to crawl back to mysquad car and use the police
radio that was in the squaditself and I had to call for
help.
And you know I was.
I was amazed I was even able todo that.
But yeah, so I was treated.
I was taken to the hospital.
I was treated for broken ribs,internal bleeding, eye injuries
(08:03):
and some blood vessels hadbroken throughout my entire neck
area and chest area.
So I was in the hospital forabout three days and then I was
released.
Travis Yates (08:15):
Wow, not many people get to tell a story like
that, point blank with a shotgunThank God that was birdshot and
you had a vest on.
But I had a friend get killedwith birdshot chief close range
but he was not wearing a vest,man.
So I have to think that thatprobably dictated how you
(08:39):
operated as a chief as you wentthrough the ranks.
You had an experience there.
You had the aftermath of thatexperience with the city and the
agency.
How did that help you navigateother critical incidents that
would occur when you were inleadership positions?
Thomas Weitzel (08:53):
Yeah, you know, riverside wasn't ready.
It's the first police officerthat ever had shot in the line
of duty.
They didn't really have goodsupport.
The officers were fantastic.
The leadership just didn't knowwhat to do, quite frankly.
So I me and my wife kind of hadto navigate this situation, and
I had, as it happened, I wasscheduled for vacation like
(09:16):
three days after the shootinghad taken place, so they allowed
me to do that to postpone it.
But I had to go through allthis medical testing and
psychological testing to returnto work.
But they didn't send me theprofessionals that could handle
police officers.
I was being sent to a localhospital with a psychologist
that had no experience at all,and then they put me under to
(09:41):
help try to find the offenders.
They wanted to put me underhypnosis and I said, sure,
that's fine.
Well, they, they contractedwith a doctor that had no skill
at all in hypnosis and no, youknow treating of police officers
and first responders.
He literally kind of tried tolead me down the road by saying
(10:03):
stuff like the car was greenright, like no, the car wasn't
green, the car was green right.
I said no, the car wasn't greenand actually wrote me up as
uncooperative.
So I'll never forget that.
And they just didn't know howto handle it.
So I wanted to make sure, if Iever got in a position of
leadership, that I would doeverything to support my
(10:26):
officers in these types ofsituations, any situation.
And it changed my philosophybecause there were a lot of
people that told me you know,tom, you should just stop
working.
I'm like I don't know, this ismy skill.
I went to college for it, Iwent to school for it, I'm a
police officer, I'm newlymarried, I'm going to have a
family.
I just can't get up and quit.
I mean, I just can't do that.
(10:48):
And even though my wife wantedme to and you know a funny story
about that bulletproof vest thevillage of Riverside didn't
provide vests.
Back then my wife purchased methat.
She bought me that vest when Ibecame a police officer as a
gift.
And back then it was a pointblank.
I don't know if you rememberthat was the name of the
bulletproof vest and a storybehind that is I didn't like the
(11:14):
way.
So my chief came to meafterwards.
He said hey, tom, point blank,contacted us and they're willing
to get by a bulletproof vestfor every single police officer
free because of your shooting Ifyou agree to do commercials for
them.
So what do you mean by that?
He's like, well, they want youto do print ads in police
(11:34):
magazines, police chiefmagazines, other magazines,
where you will tell your storyand they will, in turn, purchase
vests.
I'm like, I don't want topublicize this.
This is something I'm proud of.
And when he said, well, letthem send you the script, they
sent me this script, travis,this is an absolute truth.
(11:55):
And they embellished the story.
That didn't even happen.
They made it seem like I was insome type of gunfight and this
was 100% ambush.
And I told my chief then and Ionly had three years on the job,
I'm like no, chief, I'm notgoing to do this.
He's like he got very angry atme and said do you understand?
(12:16):
They will buy a bulletproofvest for every single officer If
you just do this.
I'm like, well, they're lying,they're making.
Just do this.
I'm like well, they're lying,they're, they're making, they're
embellishing this story fortheir benefit.
It's.
I'm not going to go on any newsprogram or I'm not going in any
print magazine.
And I'm telling you, the chiefheld it against me for the rest
(12:36):
of my till he retired well, yeah, because they're in a bad spot.
Travis Yates (12:39):
They're going to have to buy these vests and they
wanted to get it for nothing,right?
Thomas Weitzel (12:43):
and they did end up buying them.
Travis Yates (12:44):
You're correct oh, man, you're talking about risk
management, one-on-one.
We wait till an officer getsshot before we provide vests, my
goodness.
Um, well, yeah, I mean, I tendto agree.
I think many people, as youknow, chief, they leave the
profession after an event likethat and, uh, you, of course,
have gotten away through it.
You just recently startedtalking about it.
(13:05):
There was a great article inpolice one earlier this year,
and uh, I don't even know whatto say to it.
Obviously, it's, it's a prettyincredible story, but I'm sure,
certainly it shaped yourleadership style.
But you became chief in a veryunique time.
How did you see?
Just a minute, mel man came.
(13:26):
Give it a second.
Hey, all right here we go.
(13:49):
Yeah, chief, you became Chief ata very unique time, probably a
time that we would all hearkenback to.
I'm trying to go back to 13years since you retired, but
things got really weird around2012, 2013, 2014, and we really
haven't looked back.
Just give me your take on thatand how you sort of navigated
that, because the chief's jobwent from we're going to focus
(14:11):
on the mission, reducing crime.
That tends to keep citizenshappy of all political
backgrounds right, it certainlykeeps politicians happy.
Back in the day to to a timetoday where you can't even find
a chief getting in trouble forhigher crime like the mission
doesn't seem to be on theforefront.
There seems to be all theseexternal factors, and so maybe
you were in a great situationthere in riverside, or maybe you
(14:34):
weren't, but kind of, how didyou see that happening there
locally, and then what you sawnationally?
Thomas Weitzel (14:39):
Yeah, you know I was in a good position.
So when you know it's uncommonlike when I was promoted up to
chief, it's an appointment madeby the city manager, the village
manager, the elected officialsI had one requirement that I
wanted an employment contract,and they were like no, we're not
going to give you one.
You know, that's only foroutside chiefs that come in,
(15:01):
because if we don't like you ina year or two you can just go
back to your civil service rankof lieutenant.
So we're not.
I said well, I'm not taking thejob without that.
So we negotiated a con.
I got a lawyer, they got theirlawyer.
We negotiated every four yearsthe contract would be up and I
there was a clause that theycould fire me or reduce me for
just cause.
But I wanted some protectionbecause I didn't want to be the
(15:30):
type of chief that was going tostay out of the fray just
because my politicians didn'tlike it, and what I mean by that
.
It was a rough times there times.
Riverside is an upper middleclass community and most of our
violent crime came from the cityof Chicago.
We were west of the city ofChicago.
Our criminals would come west,they would commit violent crimes
and flee back east.
That was the absolute pattern.
That would happen all the timeand I was very open with the
(15:51):
media and I would put a lot ofpress releases out, or my
detectives would put pressreleases out.
We'd release mud shots.
We'd be very, very proactiveand some of the residents and
elected officials didn't like itbecause they thought it made
the village look crime riddenInstead of giving the residents
education about what's actuallygoing on and not lying to them
(16:15):
and giving them what's currentlyhappening and I always was of
the opinion Travis is how couldyou make proper safety decisions
for you and your family if thepolice department is not putting
out factual information Likehow do you do that?
So you know, I had to maneuverthrough that and luckily I had a
very good village manager thatsupported me and a very good
(16:37):
village president that supportedme.
But you know where I got a lotof the pushback was it's from
other police chiefs who actuallywere in their position because
they were politically appointedthere.
And I got to be honest with youif their mayor or city
president told them not to dosomething, they wouldn't do it,
even though it was the rightthing to do, and they would get.
(16:58):
I would get more pushback frommy colleagues sometimes than I
would from you know, myresidents or politicians, and I
could never figure that out,like why, why are you, why are
you my worst, you know, critic?
Travis Yates (17:14):
No, you, you hit the nail on the head right there
.
I mean, we talk aboutcourageous leadership.
It talks about hey, you justneed to do what's right, that
doesn't matter what some mayorsays or what some activist says,
what is right.
And I think they're in suchself-protection mode chief Me
myself and I protecting what Ihave.
We're seeing a an abjectfailure around the country
because, you're right, they'remore concerned about that than
(17:37):
actually taking care of thecitizens, which is extremely
ironic.
Thomas Weitzel (17:41):
Yeah, you know, once when I attended the FBI
National Academy in Quantico Iwas I went to this leadership
class for 12 weeks.
I was there, very well known inthe FBI ranks of, a Very well
known in the FBI ranks of, theinstructor was a highly
decorated helicopter pilot,Marine helicopter pilot, and saw
(18:02):
numerous combat.
His name was Tim Turner.
We sat in this stadium and I'mwhite, so Right, and I'm at the
top.
It was alphabetical, so you so.
You know, cops, none of us liketo sit towards the beginning.
You know how that is right.
They don't, they don't want tosit near the front of the class,
but I, they put us therealphabetically.
And one day he looked up at meand he said Mr Weitzel, come on
(18:26):
down here.
And I came all the way down andhe said you know how's it going
?
And I said I'm coasting, andhe's, and there's like two weeks
left of the academy, I had allmy papers in and he said what
did you just say?
And I said I'm coasting, he'slike.
And then he let him, he, heunleashed on me in front of the
(18:49):
whole class, which is 200 of usinternational students, and he
said don't you ever say coastingin front of me again.
He's like because you know what, Mr Whitesell, if you're
coasting, you're going downhilland you want to be a leader.
And he goes.
You don't ever want to godownhill, do you Tom?
And I'm like, oh no, I don't.
And then he built me back up.
(19:09):
After that he sent me back upand he's like he made this
example of me and then, while Iwas walking up the stairs back
to my seat, he said hey, Tom, doyou think leaders are born or
can we create leaders?
And I said I think you caneducate leaders and you can
build leaders.
He goes.
You know, I agree with you, hegoes.
(19:29):
The one thing you can't do, Tom, is charisma.
He goes.
Charisma, you're born with hegoes.
Leaders, you're born with, hegoes.
Leaders, I believe we candevelop.
And that was like anintroduction to me of leadership
.
I was like, well, that wasreally powerful.
Travis Yates (19:44):
Yeah, yeah, I wasn't too far behind you.
I was in 227.
So my math, probably two orthree years after you, and I
don't have a story like that.
I got stories I probably can'ttell.
But yeah, I don't have a storylike that.
I've got stories I probablycan't tell.
Very interesting time for sure,tom.
Even though you've been goneabout three years from the
profession, you've got to beshaking your head at what
(20:05):
continues to happen.
We go from recruiting issuesand retention issues.
Is it mainly what you just saidabout politics that's creating
this, or is there something elsegoing on?
We should discuss about it.
Thomas Weitzel (20:14):
It is politics.
You know there's no one thatcan be listening or watching
your podcast and doesn't knowthat the George Floyd incident
affected law enforcement,without a doubt.
Right, that was huge.
All three of my adult childrenare police officers in suburban
Chicago.
I hear it all the time.
They all have at least 10 yearson the job and some of them
(20:37):
want to leave the profession orthey want to leave the
department out of themetropolitan Chicago area and
get farther out away into reallysuburban policing.
And it's all because of the waythat politicians are interacting
with law enforcement, the waymedia organizations at least
some of them and the public andthese so-called activists who
(21:00):
want to just have a state oflike de-policing and no policing
at all, let alone defundpolicing.
And in Illinois, if any, youknow, there was this recent
article about well, defund thepolice is gone.
I wrote an op ed in the paperthat said it's not gone.
What's happening is ourpoliticians are defunding the
(21:20):
police through legislation andthe job is almost impossible to
do.
It's really Travis at times,impossible to defend yourself,
because no police officer wantsto be the next YouTube video.
Travis Yates (21:34):
Yeah, it's really a dangerous time when officers
are more concerned about you twothan they are about going home
at night, right, and we'reseeing that time and time again.
And what would be your adviceto a chief or somebody out there
with with that type ofauthority at an agency that's
maybe facing this externalpressure?
What kind of advice would yougive them?
Tom?
Thomas Weitzel (21:55):
You have to stand up, you have to lead.
You're a leader for a reasonLike when I was in my position,
I had deputy chiefs, lieutenants, all right.
They managed the department.
They managed the day-to-dayoperations, the police
department.
My job was to lead and setpolicy that's really what it was
and also to be out there.
You know these chiefs that stayin their office all day.
(22:17):
Travis, forget about that.
Those days are over.
If you're still one of thosedinosaurs, I don't even know how
you're surviving.
You need to be out there, youneed to communicate and you need
to have your facts too.
I always like to listen tochiefs or superintendents or
executives who could make theircase as to why something could
happen, but they weren't justtalking crap.
(22:39):
They had facts behind it, theyhad experience behind it and
they knew what they were talkingabout.
I think that carries a lot ofweight.
Travis Yates (22:48):
Yeah, and you've got to be principle-driven.
You've got to have core beliefsthat you won't come off of,
because if you don't have that,you're going to just blow with
the wind right, you'll cave into whatever's out there, and I
think we understand thephenomenon of why these chiefs
are acting that way.
But they have got to understandthey've been put in this place
during this time for a reason.
There's a huge responsibilityand you know leadership is the
(23:12):
answer.
You can overcome all of whatwe're talking about whether it's
recruiting, retention, lowmorale, people leaving the
profession with leadership, andI think the frustrating part,
chief, is they all know it intheir head, but we're not seeing
it practiced, and so I think itcomes down to principles.
If you were to talk about yourprinciples, chief, what kept you
steady, what kept you strong?
(23:33):
What would be the principlesthat you had that really
maintain your leadership focus?
What would be the principles?
Thomas Weitzel (23:38):
that you had that really maintain your
leadership focus.
You know I'm a person thatalways wanted to be a police
officer.
I went to Catholic grade schooland I used to run to the
windows when I heard a siren goby and the nun would have to
pull me back to my seat.
So I always wanted that and Ihad good mentors.
So I had.
I was always involved in policecircles.
(23:59):
My uncle was a police and firecommissioner where I grew up, so
I was in that.
You know that field, so to speak, and what I wanted is just to
be true to myself and I alwayswanted to never forget where I
came from as I grew up.
I know I think a lot of chiefsthey do they forget what it's
like.
Even sometimes I used to tellmy field training officers they
(24:23):
would get frustrated with newrecruits and I was like, hey,
you were sitting in that side ofthe squad eight years ago too.
Okay, like you have to, we needpatience.
We have as training officers.
You need to know that one ofthe best skills you can have is
patience.
But I always wanted to be trueto myself and to the beliefs
that I had, which were thatpolicing is, in my opinion, the
(24:46):
most honorable profession inAmerica and I truly believe that
.
It sounds corny, but Iabsolutely believe it.
Or I wouldn't have probably hadmy kids all go into this
profession.
You know, my wife is anaccountant and she, when all
three of my children were swornin as police officers, you know,
I thought she was going todivorce me.
So, but so you know, my wifesaid to me why can't one of them
(25:11):
be an accountant?
Because that's not what, that'snot what they want to do.
You know, and I encourage themto go in this profession and I,
I mentored them and I talked tothem about it all the time and
the rights and wrongs of what todo they.
You know, there's no such thingas a perfect police officer,
but you know, you know what yourNorth star is, you know, and
(25:34):
that's, that's the, that's theprinciple you have to keep.
You know.
I'll tell you a funny story.
My son was actually probably aserious story.
He when, he when what went downin Uvalde, texas, with that
school shooting.
Well, my son came to me.
My youngest son was a policeofficer here in Illinois.
He said you know, I always sawthat the officers waited 73
(25:56):
minutes and that theirsupervisors at times were
telling them don't advance,don't advance.
And my son turned to me at thedinner table and said you know,
dad, if my supervisor in thecommunity, he were told him
don't advance, wait, he goes.
I disregard his direct orderand I go down there and engage
(26:16):
them and he goes.
I might get shot, I might getkilled, but he goes.
I could live with myself and hegoes.
I don't care what mysupervisors did to me.
If I heard children beingslaughtered and those were his
words I'm advancing and I'm likethat's the kind of kid I wanted
to raise.
Travis Yates (26:32):
Yeah, that's the kind of leadership we need,
regardless of what anybody says,or does you have to do what's
right.
And, Tom, I think there's somuch in the success you've had
and I did want to talk to you.
I think you alluded to it.
But one of the things that bugsme a lot with a lot of these
leaders today is they'll saythings like well, I have an open
door policy, right?
Well, I'm thinking to myselfwell, who's coming to your door?
(26:54):
So how did you deal with that?
I have a feeling you were veryinvolved throughout your
department.
You would go to their doors,Talk to our audience about that.
Thomas Weitzel (27:02):
Yeah, without a doubt.
So my office was directlyoutside of the roll call room to
begin with and I would go outon the street.
I would answer calls with myofficers.
I would meet them in theparking lot, I would.
I would call them to meet me ina public parking lot.
We could talk for them to cometo me.
(27:22):
You know, patrol officers,detectives, are kind of
reluctant to do that, so youreally should go to them.
But I did that with routinebecause I had a sergeant that I
tried to mentor myself after.
You know, you probably haveworked in organizations where
the officers like when we didpick, so we could pick shifts by
(27:43):
seniority and sometimes I wouldtake the worst shift just
because that sergeant was on theshift.
Because I knew this sergeantknew what he was doing, was a
leader and you know policeofficers will follow leaders and
I there were.
I could have been on day shift,maybe it had a better shift,
but this born leader was onmidnights and I wanted to work
(28:06):
for him and I would pick thoseshifts because I wanted to be on
his shift and that's the typeof leadership I wanted to
portray when I was chief and Iwanted my officers to know that
I'll come to you.
I mean, we would hold a rollcall in public before it was
even something to do, but Iwould always go out and see my
(28:28):
officers daily and I would comein.
So I would work midnight shifts.
I would come in and work, forexample, christmas Eve.
I would come in and work NewYear's Eve, just so the officers
knew I was there and I wasn'tthis chief that was sitting in
some ivory tower and I'm betterthan you and I did that with
frequency.
Travis Yates (28:50):
Yeah, without even asking you, were there 13 years
.
That has to do a lot to do withit, with the trust you built
with your officers, and peoplemisunderstand trust, because
trust isn't automatic.
You have to trust them beforethey'll even begin to trust you,
and that's one of the easiestway to do.
It is what you're talking aboutnow, chief.
One of the things that hasevolved greatly in the last
(29:10):
decade is technology and, uh,you, you face this yourself.
What type of balance did youhave?
Because I think there's adanger in technology to where we
can over rely on it and we getaway from that interpersonal
leadership that we all know iseffective.
Tell us about the balance thatyou use when it came to the
technology your agency used andthe interpersonal relationships
(29:31):
that you needed.
Thomas Weitzel (29:33):
Yeah, you know we all got lazy as chiefs and
commanders and we started tolead by email and you know
officers hate that.
There are some things you haveto put out by that.
But I tried to stay away fromthat.
We were the size departmentwhere you could either my deputy
chief or my patrol commander,me could go to roll call.
I would personally go,especially if there was an
(29:53):
important new policy or a newprocedure we were putting up.
But you know I would always askthem I'm like here, here's the
pursuit policy we're going toput out.
What do you think Like?
Give me some feedback on thisand yes, our village attorney
wrote it along with you know myinput and stuff.
But give us practicalities.
(30:13):
So I like to do the one-on-onecommunication.
So I like to do the one on onecommunication.
I wasn't the chief that you knowshied away from that and if
(30:36):
they had criticism, they allknow what you did, what idiot
things you did as patrolman,right.
And now you're sitting as a, asa, as a chief, and sometimes
you have to dole out somediscipline and you know that's
to me.
That's a harder road to walksometimes and I had to terminate
officers I worked with becausetheir actions were just too
egregious worked with.
(30:56):
Because their actions were justtoo egregious Mine were not
duty related.
Unfortunately, policemensometimes have some of their
worst decisions made in theiroff duty conduct.
So, and you know, I wanted to begetting back to that open and
transparent Like that was like asuch a tagline Right, so I
never used it.
I just wanted to be the chieffrom within the department that
(31:18):
will listen to you and I'll goout and I'll go to your roll
call and I'll come to yourmeeting.
And there's one thing, travis,too I always did, no matter how
minor your injury was, becauseover my 13 years as chief I had
officers injured in the line ofduty, from broken legs to broken
wrists, to serious caraccidents.
I always came in, I always wentto the hospital.
(31:40):
He could have a broken wristand I left my home at 2 o'clock
in the morning and I drove tothat hospital and made an
appearance so that her familyand my officers knew I was there
.
It didn't have to belife-threatening.
Travis Yates (31:53):
Yeah, yeah, that was always my rule.
My commanders would always say,well, we're not going to call
you unless it's last rate, and Isaid, no, no, they're going to
the hospital.
I want to know because you'reright, it doesn't take long to
get up, drive to the hospital,see him for five or 10 minutes
and make sure there.
I mean that means a lot andthat's really, really important.
Thomas Weitzel (32:12):
Yeah, without a doubt, and I think officers
build trust and they tell alltheir officers and it does show
you care, you know.
So I mean I was out of state inMichigan and one of my officers
is involved in a shooting wherehe shot the offender, didn't
kill the offender.
At that time I was at a weddingreception in Michigan with my
(32:35):
wife.
I put my wife in the car, weleft that wedding reception,
drove all the way back toRiverside probably about a
six-hour drive and I went to thescene and then I went from
there to where they took theofficer for the shooting to the
hospital, because that's justwhat you do.
If you're not a chief doingthat, then you shouldn't have
that position.
Travis Yates (32:55):
Tom, I wish I could bottle this up.
Man, we're going to have tohave you back on.
Chief Tom Wetzel, I can't thankyou enough for being here.
Please keep speaking out,because your knowledge is
powerful and many, many peopleneed it.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
Thomas Weitzel (33:10):
Thank you so much for having me.
I thoroughly enjoyed it.
Travis Yates (33:13):
If you've been watching or you've been
listening.
Thank you for doing that.
And just remember lead on andstay courageous.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Thank you for listening to Courageous
Leadership with Travis Yates.
We invite you to join othercourageous leaders at www.
travisyates.
org.
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