February 14, 2025 • 49 mins
Authentic leadership in law enforcement is about integrity and the commitment to one's word, as Sheriff Scott Walton illustrates through his experiences. By fostering a supportive environment, Walton emphasizes the significance of standing up for officers in difficult times while exposing the damaging effects of weak leadership.
• Importance of keeping one’s word in leadership
• The unique atmosphere at Rogers County Sheriff's Office
• Supportive leadership creates a positive work environment
• The perils of cowardly decision-making in law enforcement
• Insightful discussion surrounding Betty Shelby's case
• The need for courageous leadership amidst crisis
• How to cultivate a department that attracts dedicated personnel
• Emphasizing fair treatment over equal treatment
• Introduction to the Stand First Foundation and its mission
If you are interested in supporting the Stand First Foundation, please visit stand1st.org to learn more.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Scott Walton (00:00):
their word.
I grew up hearing your words,all you got.
You're only as good as yourword.
You know, if your word's goodyou can borrow money on your
word.
You know and you know as a kidgrowing up you hear, you know
word, word, word and it doesn'tmean to you a lot, to you maybe
when you're, when you're young.
But looking back, I mean today,I mean I see somebody, I meet
(00:23):
somebody new and all I wonder ishis word good?
I mean, is he good for his word?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Welcome to Courageous Leadership with Travis Yates,
where leaders find the insights,advice and encouragement they
need to lead courageously.
Travis Yates (00:39):
Welcome back to the show.
I'm so honored you decided tospend a few minutes with us here
today, and there's no way tostart the new year than with
this guest.
You've heard me talk about him.
I've mentioned him a lot.
He's in my book.
He's a true inspiration to allof law enforcement.
I'm at his agency as we speak,recording this live for you to
(01:02):
listen at a later time.
Thank you for doing that.
I'm here with Sheriff ScottWalton, rogers County Sheriff's
Office 44 years of lawenforcement experience, a number
of years of municipal agencybefore this.
He's been the sheriff here fora long time and, if I have my
way, he's going to be here for alot longer because he's truly
an inspiration.
(01:22):
Sheriff Scott Walton, how areyou?
Scott Walton (01:24):
doing Travis, I'm good and I'm blessed and I'm
glad to talk about whateverwe're going to talk about,
because we've had some goodconversations over the years and
they just get better and theneed for the subject matter
you're preaching here is growingevery day.
Travis Yates (01:41):
Well, I mean, scott, I've always been thankful
to you because early on, duringCourageous Leadership and our
seminars, you brought us intoyour agency.
I think we trained just abouteverybody and this had been a
long time ago and you committedto that when you started here as
sheriff and you fulfilled thatpromise.
But I've watched you from afar,sometimes up close, of what
you're doing here, and let metell you why I wanted to do this
(02:03):
interview so much.
You don't know this by close ofwhat you're doing here.
And let me tell you why Iwanted to do this interview so
much.
You don't know that.
By the way, people don't knowthis.
We don't prep for these.
Scott's got no idea what we'regoing to talk about.
We're going to free flow this,but it's going to be very
interesting.
And, scott, I've had multiple ofyour employees reach out to me
because people will follow me orfollow the content, and they
reach out.
I get a lot of emails talkingabout how bad things are in some
departments, but what I getfrom your agency is so unique,
(02:26):
it's like a unicorn, right?
It doesn't happen very often.
I've got employees that tell methat the time you spend with
them, the time you invest withthem.
I had one employee a few weeksago say that he threw an idea by
you and you just said I like it, get it done and it's just so
unique compared to what most lawenforcement unfortunately is.
And I unique compared to whatmost law enforcement
(02:51):
unfortunately is.
And I guess I would want tostart this, this interview, with
why are you different?
Why, why do we?
Scott Walton (02:54):
see so many cowards out there in the
profession, but you seem to beso different, you know?
Uh, a quick answer on that and,and I think the longer I
thought about it, I'd still comeback, uh, to a full circle.
And you know, you and I bothtalked about our dads and, uh,
your father was, you know, anadministrator and, I believe,
retired as a captain in FortSmith, arkansas Police
Department right.
Yes, sir, my dad ran a steelshop, you know, and his blue
(03:16):
collar all the way.
He was a, you know, world WarII and Korean War veteran and
Korean War veteran.
And you know, whether you knowit or not, growing up, you know
you might go through a phase oftrying to prove your dad wrong
or whatever, but you always wantto be like him.
And you know, in this smalltown of Claremore that I grew up
in now it's a little big townor whatever, but you know, I
(03:38):
still see men that used to workfor my dad and they said you
know, clint was the best bossthey ever had.
And you know, I guess I wantedsomebody to say that about me
someday, you know.
But you don't.
I mean you don't want it.
You know, you don't want thatas stolen valor or anything.
You want it earned.
You know.
And I think of the fact that Imean I look back now, but you
(04:01):
know, looking back, I mean itwas just the thing that that
fades away.
Now.
I don't care what industry youwere in.
Uh, it's, you know, it's peoplebeing their word.
I grew up hearing your words.
All you got.
You're only as good as yourword, you know.
Uh, if your word's good, youcan borrow money on your word.
You know and, uh, you know.
As a kid growing up you hear,you know word, word, word and
(04:23):
and um.
It doesn't mean to you a lot,to you maybe, when you're young.
But looking back, I mean today,I mean I see somebody, I meet
somebody new, and all I wonderis his word good.
I mean, is he good for his word?
You definitely want yourcommitments to stay strong,
(04:46):
commitments to stay strong andand um man, in this industry now
that we're talking about it, Imean our law enforcement
profession.
Uh, you know, we've seen thebest and the worst examples of
it and sometimes, you know, I'mI'm fortunate to, to be able to
work and and be responsible foran agency that's a real
manageable size.
You know, we've we've got alittle over a hundred employees,
you know, and I'm blessed, Isay, to work with the best men
(05:08):
and women that I've ever workedwith.
Travis Yates (05:17):
Well, it's interesting because I have asked
that question to a lot of greatleaders around the country and
they all come back to what youjust said the way you were
raised and your family andthere's always a part of I know
in my experience and of course,what you described is growing up
with a father that was a leaderyou want to emulate that.
You want to make your fatherproud, which is certainly
strange at our age that we'restill trying to make our father
(05:37):
proud, and there's something tothat.
But the other thing that Ithink is so interesting is you
broke the mode.
Like in law enforcement, wehave this idea that we can send
these folks to FBI and A andleadership schools.
You've got to go up the ranks,you've got to do this, you've
got to do that, and then one day, when you're 65, well, you
could be a chief or you could bea sheriff and you earned your
(05:59):
right.
People know this about you,scott, but you left your other
agency as a police officer norank and I don't know this about
you, scott, but you left yourother agency as a police officer
no rank, and I don't think youever desired to have any rank
and you stepped into a sheriff'sjob a very important position
and literally hit the gas pedal.
And that reminds me a lot ofMark Lamb.
You know Mark Lamb.
People that listen to this knowthat I talk about Mark Lamb a
lot.
I've been in his agency a lot.
(06:20):
He did the same thing.
He had no supervisor experiencein law enforcement, although he
had been a leader.
He'd been a manager in privateindustry before that and he
stepped in and hit the gas.
That, I think that is.
There's something to be saidabout that.
Are we?
Are we almost creating andruining future leaders in law
(06:40):
enforcement by thinking there'sthis pedestal or this system in
place that you have to do beforeyou get there, because you're
almost brainwashed, in a sense,by the time you get there.
Now that doesn't mean thatsomeone can't do that and
succeed.
But, scott, you and I both knowthere's a roadmap to being a
coward where you can succeed ata high level in law enforcement.
You could step over everybodyin your way and get to that
(07:02):
promised land.
We all know a few of thempersonally.
Where do you think we have toget to to duplicate what you've
done here, which is a departmentthat people want to be at, may
not be the highest paiddepartment may not have the
greatest benefits, because youdon't control that, but they
want to work for leadership.
Why can't every departmentemulate that?
Scott Walton (07:22):
You know you've stomped all over it right there
and let's just, I mean we couldtalk for a month about you know
what you just opened up.
But you know to expound on thatI do, I think we got so used to
.
You know an educational and Imean I'm all about education and
training and you knowstandardized ways of discipline
(07:45):
and different things like this.
But you know you can't take thehuman part out of it and you
know that's the part of this.
You know I spoke about myfather.
The first police sergeant I everworked for was the greatest one
that ever existed and that wasBob Meyer.
If anybody ever got theblessing to work for Bob Meyer,
he was a fair guy.
Blessing to work for bob meyer,he was a fair guy.
(08:09):
Uh, I mean just uh, you know tome, uh, he just in every way
was the best example of a goodleader as a street sergeant.
You know, hardcore, uh, oldschool, he could call it
whatever you want but I mean gotthe job done.
You know, was compassionate whenhe needed to be.
Uh, you know, was tougher inhell when he needed to be.
You know, was tougher in hellwhen he needed to be.
But you know we can't sendpeople to an academy or training
(08:30):
that you know that preparesthem.
And again you said it.
If all we wanted to talk abouttoday was you know how to rise
through the ranks in an agencyyou and I both come from Tulsa
Police Department how to getwhere you want to go, it would
(08:50):
be an ugly lesson.
It would be a sickening lesson,equally as sickening.
We've seen people in thatposition that got there by the
way of.
Travis Yates (09:02):
I mean, let's just swallow it, let's just solve it
out.
Scott Walton (09:06):
We've seen serial liars, serial liars, yeah.
And you've got to say this,you've got to do this.
If somebody, if you can walkacross somebody's head and stick
their head under the train, youjust need to do that because it
shows that you're not scared todiscipline people.
We don't slow down enough.
(09:27):
You know to think that.
You know let's put the right orwrong element in this thing.
You know what the person do.
Let's just get rid of them,whatever.
And the best, worst example Icould give anybody in the whole
wide world is Betty Shelby'sdisaster of a career.
Travis Yates (09:46):
Yeah, and I've got that on my notes.
Let's back that up and let'stell them exactly sort of what
happened.
And I'll open up with becauseBetty worked for me the year
before this incident happened.
Betty Shelby was involved in ashooting completely justified.
The investigator that workedwith her said it was completely
justified.
Scott Walton (10:02):
But it was sort of this pre-George Floydyd, the
very beginning, right after theferguson type thing, and you saw
everybody in sync bow down tothe loudest voices right, you
know we you probably got filefootage of the Press release and
I sat in my office thatafternoon and watched, you know,
the press conference, not pressrelease.
(10:24):
I watched the press conferencewhere they talked about this and
, my gosh, you had the policechief, chuck Jordan.
You had Steve Coonswaller,district attorney.
You had the US attorney, dannyWilliams at that time the mayor
everybody got up and apologizedfor Betty's actions.
They didn't slow down enough totalk about.
(10:45):
You know she was trained to doa job.
You know there was a difficultdecision to be made there.
You know the component that sheneeded to go home to her family
that night.
No, I mean we immediatelyapologized and at the conclusion
of that press conference, youknow I thought two things.
I mean Betty screwed, betty'shead's under the train and all
(11:10):
the truth didn't matter at thatpoint.
No, and you know you just sawthe best example of spinalist
leadership.
I thought, okay, why?
I mean you know tragedy?
Yeah, you know a man lost hislife because of his stupid
actions and this is just.
I mean you fast forward throughthat deal.
Betty goes through eight monthsof hell thinking that she's I
(11:32):
mean you talked to her idea ofwhatever.
She knew she was going to go tothe penitentiary.
I mean that was her belief andshe probably had plenty of you
know reasons to believe that, bythe grace of God, she survived
it.
Travis Yates (11:44):
Well, the irony of it is you had figures,
authority figures that we putour trust in to do the right
thing, that we, you know, weelect or we hire, and they all
left it to a jury to do theright thing People we don't pay
to do it, people we don't think,but the jury actually took all
those facts and made the rightdecision.
But you've ruined a family.
Scott Walton (12:08):
Betty walked out a free woman with a ruined career
.
You know, I never will forgetthis conversation.
First conversation I had withBetty after this whole deal was
over with I asked her.
I said hey, I'm curious how theconversations went with you and
Police Chief Chuck Jordan.
And she looked at me kind ofweird and said what do you mean?
I said just, you know what didhe say?
(12:29):
And she said nothing.
And I said you never had aconversation with him.
She says no.
Second conversation I ever hadwith Betty I said has Jordan
said anything to you?
Yet he said yeah, he came in myoffice, pointed his finger at
me.
When she came back to work,they put her in a little closet
and give her about 20 minutesworth of work so she could go
crazy.
And he come in and said,pointed his finger at me and
(12:52):
said you know, you're here foryour own protection, not
punishment, and walked out, youknow?
And I thought, okay, what didBetty do wrong?
I mean why are you treating herlike a piece of crap and
continue to punish that you knowthat girl for again doing her
job?
And it keeps going on.
Travis Yates (13:10):
Yeah, I mean we could duplicate that story
across the country.
Right, and unfortunately it'sstill happening.
And when we talk aboutcourageous leadership, that's
the brunt of it.
It's easy to lead in times ofpeace, but in times of chaos and
activists and media andpressure, well, the truth is
still the truth and you stillhave to lead.
Scott Walton (13:26):
And you look at that day, I thought you know I'd
have respect for Jordan if he'dstood up there in that press
conference and said we're goingto investigate this.
I mean I mean inside and out,always.
But we're going to do it.
I mean we're going to do it ina fair way.
(13:46):
The fact that that poor girlaccepted the job to be a Tulsa
police officer doesn't shortcutor give her any less of an
opportunity to justify heractions.
But I mean that whole deal.
They accelerated it.
I mean you know the affidavit.
Travis Yates (13:56):
Well for the audience, because this happened
a while back.
You may not know this, in fact,I'm sure you don't know this
they charged her before theinvestigation was complete.
Now we've seen that repeatedacross the country, because
that's what cowards do.
They think that that helps them, but it actually hurts them.
Right?
Because at the end of the dayoftentimes we see this time and
time again the jury makes their,they take all the information,
(14:18):
all the facts, the fullinvestigation, and they make.
The jury makes their.
They take all the information,all the facts, the full
investigation.
They make the appropriatedecision based on case law, and
then the people that werescreaming to charge her are now
screaming the whole system isrigged, which is exactly what
happened here, right?
Scott Walton (14:30):
Well, I mean and I think it's the first, first
example, I remember thathappening in Tulsa, oklahoma,
and you know Al Sharpton comesto town, he screams and yells I
think he gets paid to do thatMakes his demands that Betty's
arrested and gosh, what happensnext Betty gets arrested, you
know, and you know her concernsat that time, you know, is death
threats.
I mean, we all know that.
(14:52):
You know they had to goliterally hide and you know she.
You know the roller coasterthat she went through.
I mean financially, theyweren't prepared.
(15:25):
You know she.
You know the roller coasterthat she went through, I mean
financially, they weren the road, you know screaming and yelling
in a car.
Uh, knowing that, hey, thatcould lead you to some problems.
Betty, betty did her job.
Betty walked into a situationthat even some police officers
wouldn't, you know.
And especially after thoseincidents, uh, and we all know
the one I think it was atChicago right after that where a
female officer got beaten neardeath.
Travis Yates (15:44):
Yeah.
When the chief asked her whyshe didn't shoot him, she said I
didn't want to shoot an unarmedman because it would happen
just right after the Shelbyincident.
And she's lucky to be alivetoday.
Scott Walton (15:54):
And you just think about.
You know, I would hate to think, and I know I'll be able to go
to my grave saying that I didn'tdo anything in any leadership
or administrative role thatwould add to a police officer.
Think of that, bitch down anddidn't say that.
We'll just do our job, like itshould be done, uh, everybody in
(16:26):
that leadership role policechief, district attorney,
anybody that got up there, themayor they all said it, um and
did it, uh, added they.
They added to the policeofficer's decision making.
If I didn't get too windy onthat and make sense, I mean
because you know, gosh dang, youknow you can't tell me if
(16:47):
you're a seasoned police officernear retirement.
You know you've got your housepaid off and you know things are
starting to look pretty goodfor the future.
You know, and finally, donethis for this long and
everything, I'm going to risk itby shooting a guy here that
needs to be shot.
You know, and finally, donethis for this long and
everything, I'm going to risk it, uh, by shooting a guy here
that needs to be shot.
You know, and and um, that's ahard way to say it maybe, uh,
(17:08):
but I mean it's realistic ashell.
Uh, you, you, you, you unwinduh, everything there about you
know a tough decision to makeanyway, um, and you went through
it, I went through it.
I mean situational exercisesand and, and we got in service
train on it after we graduatedfrom the academy and everything.
(17:30):
It was all about make thedecision.
You know I heard peoplescreaming in my ear and slapped
me on the back of the headsaying you might not want to go
home tonight.
Maybe your partner does.
You know you've got you've gotpartners and people here that
you took an oath to protect.
Betty did her job.
You know it wasn't.
And again, how many people wantto walk into that situation and
(17:52):
take care of business?
Most of them would gladly drivepast it or avoid it at all
costs.
And when you see again, I meanI watched that press conference
and you know, for lack of betterwords, I mean that's the most
chicken shit leader decisionsacross the board that I ever saw
made in my life.
Travis Yates (18:11):
Well, you saw that in your own backyard.
We've seen that, of course,across the country.
And, scott, you did somethingduring that time period and you
continue to do it today that Idon't see anybody else doing
here or across the country forthe most part is you stood up
for that officer.
That officer did not work foryou, she did not work in your
agency.
You, as a leader here in anadjoining county, stood up for
her during that time, to thisday as people just listen to,
(18:34):
and then you offered her a jobwhen she felt like she couldn't
work at that agency anymore andyou took a lot of heat for that,
and I have an immense amount ofrespect, because this was not
giving somebody a second chance.
You've obviously done that aswell.
This was giving somebody thecareer back that was taken from
her at no fault of her own.
(18:54):
We can all repeat what you justsaid.
Of course it's tragic.
Of course it shouldn't havehappened.
It doesn't change the fact whathappened and what nobody
offered during that time periodis what would you have done?
I mean nobody, nobody.
Everybody that wanted tocriticize her never gave an
alternative.
Well, what would you have done?
Because law enforcement isn'tin a position to do what the
citizens during that day, whichwas, running away and call 911.
(19:15):
We're not in that position.
We don't get to do that, and sowe won't debate if it was wrong
or not, because it was clearlywrong.
But I think it's.
Here you are and I've alreadysort of built a foundation.
You end up a sheriff, no formalleadership training, and then
you're the only person in thiscommunity that is standing up
for this one officer.
(19:36):
Once again.
You knew you would take heatfor that.
You knew that you would get themedia headlines for that, and
you certainly did.
You did it anyway.
Explain that to us you know it.
Scott Walton (19:48):
It's funny how it came about because I I was
talking to a reporter, localnews station and and we were
done with whatever story we weretalking about and uh, they were
putting their equipment up andeverything.
And he goes, could I talk toyou a little bit about betty
shelby's deal?
And said sure, and we talked,uh, about it and I really liked
(20:09):
what the reporter had to say.
And uh, he said let me ask youa question, would you hire?
And I said in a heartbeat, andhe said you want to do a story
on it right now?
I said, let's do.
He sets his equipment back upand away.
(20:29):
We went with that deal andmaybe that kind of got some
stuff going.
I'd never talked to Betty aboutit.
I didn't really know Betty.
I knew her husband thought wellof him, but I thought first of
all I actually reached out toher and said we did this story.
I don't know what your plansfor the future are, but if
(20:50):
that's an interest to you let'ssit down and talk.
And we did.
And she said I got some thingsjust in life.
I need to get put togetherbecause last eight months have
been hell, and so I get it.
And you know I said, if you'reready to, you know to do
something, let's sit down andtalk.
Okay, I'll call you.
Some time goes by, she calls, wesit down.
(21:12):
And her request was you know,if I do this, I mean I want to
apply and interview and doeverything.
Just, I mean, and that's theway we do it anyway, I don't
just say, hey, you want a joband you know you're on or
whatever.
And, uh, she went through boardinterview.
Um, she, I mean again, likelike square one, start in law
(21:35):
enforcement career.
Um, hit the ground running withus.
Uh, she said, I really I needto start on a part-time basis.
Actually, she, she reserved forus for a while and, um, I mean,
and just to get the feel of thecounty and see how much
different this was because Itold her it's drastically
different.
Uh, you know, out here in themiddle of you know, a county
that's, um, you know, spread outas opposed to, you know,
(21:59):
metropolitan areas.
I want you know that shevolunteers for a little bit.
People liked her.
She started part-time and theneventually full-time and I mean
truly an asset.
She's still involved with ouragency, but she has to do that
remotely for the simple reasonthat you know her and her
(22:21):
husband had to move out.
I mean things.
You know it wasn't over with.
Then you know he had relativesthat became ill, that they had
to be cared for.
They would have probably had tomove anyway, but they move out
of state and sad story.
(22:43):
But you know, she calls me oneday and she said you know, I've
applied, you know, for you knowa fishing game, you know like a
game warden, uh, wildlifeofficer, um, in this other state
, and could I use you forreference?
And and uh for full-timeemployment I said absolutely.
You know, hung the phone upafter a conversation I I thought
she didn't have a snowballchance of hell getting that job.
(23:04):
They'll Google her name and it'sover with before it starts.
They'll go to the next one thatdoesn't have the headlines that
she has when you Google hername.
Honestly, they've altered theiridentity, you know, they've
taken on new careers andeverything and I thought you
(23:27):
know why.
You know what I mean, Becauseshe showed up for work one day
and did her job and I think thatwhole deal, Betty, wasn't a
weak link.
I mean, the weak link was thespineless leadership throughout
the top of the department and onthrough the DA's office.
Travis Yates (23:44):
Well, and you describe what we've seen so
often.
This is, of course, the endresult of horrible leadership,
coward leadership.
But getting back to whatcourage is I mean?
You displayed it, right.
You had no reason.
There was no benefit to youProbably it was to your demise
(24:05):
to stand up for her, but youknew what was right.
In fact, here's the thing,scott unless you're a psychopath
, everyone knows what's right.
Why do people avoid doingwhat's right, like I have?
No doubt?
I know these men that you justtalked about in this chain of
command.
I've had great interactionswith them.
I've seen them make rightdecisions.
(24:25):
But when this decision came,there was so much to lose.
Whether you call it reputation,which you don't control anyway
Shakespeare says it's fleetingor whether it's their career or
whatever else, whether it'spolitics Right they had.
It was such a detrimentaldecision they steered away from
that right and wrong metric.
But that leadership isn'tleadership if you're not willing
(24:49):
to do what's right at all times.
You have displayed that timeand time again.
That's not the only officer youreached out to that has been
victims of cowards.
Right to that has been victimsof cowards, right I mean it's.
It's just crazy to me that Iwill.
I will keep saying this thatyou're the only you want.
Scott Walton (25:07):
If we can name the courageous leaders on one hand,
there's not enough of them, andyou're one of them, right I
want to be, um, you know, I justum, you know the, the internal
reward of that, and you knowwe're in a profession here I'm
not telling you anything thatyou know it's, it's full of type
, a personalities.
You know, and, and, and I goback to that old saying I heard
(25:27):
a long time ago you know,everybody wants to be a cowboy.
Tell us time to do cowboy shit.
And and then you know, let's,let's find something else to do.
And and, uh, what's mike tyson?
Travis Yates (25:36):
say everyone's getting a fight till they get
hit in the mouth.
Scott Walton (25:40):
And you know those things are never going to go
out of style.
And you know, I just honestlyand we've seen it I mean you
know we know some of the bestand the worst uh forms of life
in the law enforcementprofession and uh, sadly enough,
you know, some of those uh low,crawling uh forms are able to
(26:05):
quickly climb that that ladderof success through the ranks.
Uh, if you know how to play thegame and you don't mind, you
know selling your soul and andand literally, you know taking
on a piss ant mentality of howwe're going to lead.
And I, I mean uh, that'sanother word my dad always used,
you know, I mean uh, and itwasn't in a favorable way, you
(26:27):
know.
I mean uh, if he calledsomebody a piss ant, uh, they,
they, they didn't display thosethings and I'm thankful I come
out.
And you know you're youngerthan I am, but I mean you're out
of the same mold of people.
I mean those guys they didn'tcall it America's greatest
(26:48):
generation for nothing, you know, but the weak ones weren't
cowards, you know.
And now, and what infuriates memore, if we go to the corporate
world, you know it, I meanyou've been all through it.
There's spineless people in itand there's, there's people, I'm
sure, out there I've neverreally been in the corporate
world that much that that aregoing to do the right thing and
(27:12):
treat people right and display,you know, really biblical
principles that are so simple.
You know.
I mean treat somebody like youwant to be treated.
You know, and that's the partthat bothers me when we get into
a profession of law enforcementwhere, yeah, I mean I want to
(27:34):
put on these clothes and anddress like a badass and and go
out and be a badass and and allthis kind of stuff.
But when it, when it's time tomake a decision, you know that
that, uh, you might have to wear.
But you know I'm internally theway I feel.
I can say I've never had anopportunity in my life to have a
(27:56):
better feeling about myselfinternally than when I hired
Betty Shelby.
I knew I was doing the rightthing.
When I hired Wayne Brown, when Ihired Bruta George, guys were,
(28:18):
I mean, I'm not just throwingTulsa Police Department under
the bus, but these were allthree individuals that Tulsa
Police Department had kicked tothe curb and they're fine here
and, trust me, we had, beforethey came to work here, we had
that conversation.
I said, you know there's peoplethat would love to see me fail
and you fail, so we don't needto fail.
Betty and I had that sameconversation.
(28:39):
We knew it.
But you know you think, boy,just what if anything happened?
You know we could.
I mean, but what again?
What did those guys do wrong?
I mean, you know Drew DeGeorgehadn't been here very long.
I mean, he's a standout.
Travis Yates (28:55):
Well, he's an all-star.
What they did wrong was theywere great at what they did,
which is a whole otherconversation.
Right, I mean, we're notthrowing a blanket generic on
all law enforcement, but youhave these pockets in this
profession to where?
I mean?
I just had a conversation witha guy in Sacramento and he said,
man, this kid worked for me andhe was brilliant and the
(29:18):
department recognized he wasbrilliant and the department
shut him down at every angle.
He left it with like six yearson Now he's developed some
technology that's made him amillionaire.
He said sometimes he says thisquote to me sometimes you can be
too smart for this job.
And that's leadership issue.
Because what leaders should do,scott, what I've seen you do
time and time again is you leaninto it.
You take the expertise you havehere in this agency and you
lean into it and say do yourthing.
(29:38):
You give them the freedom to doit.
And that's why I think and I'lltell you right now I won't name
names, but I've had people thatwork for you come up to me that
said you know, I've beenoffered a job A, b, c or D,
better benefits, betterstability, better salary, but
I'm not leaving, scott Walton,that relationship leadership to
me how you.
I mean, I had a guy tell methat he gave you a call one day
(30:02):
and you spent two hours with himon the phone talking to him.
This should not be rare and Ineed people to understand.
This is how it's supposed.
Scott Walton is not a superstandout leader although I think
you are, scott.
Scott Walton should be the norm.
Scott Walton (30:17):
That's what we're talking about.
You know, nothing could piss meoff quicker and more than
somebody thinking I'm trying todo this just to be a John Wayne
image or a coward.
And I look at that deal.
You know I don't want it tolook that way and some people
say, okay, it's anotherpublicity stunt.
You know, you and I both hadenough time talking to the media
and I enjoy talking to themedia and I want to get our
(30:39):
message out there and the onlyway I got to do it is through
our local media.
Local media treats us great andI don't miss any opportunity to
stand in front of a camera andtell what we're doing over here
in Rogers County.
But you know I don't want it toever come across like, okay,
here Walton comes with anotherpublicity stunt.
(31:00):
If I was I'm not smart enoughto pull off a publicity stunt
like hiring Betty Shelby, and Ithought, you know, if I ever was
going to pull one off, I'd haveseen that coming way down the
pike.
I've got to go hire BettyShelby.
Well, well, that would be apretty bad publicity stunt, yeah
no, I think it comes full bythat circle, you know, because,
(31:27):
uh, you know, we had a deal andI got recorded, uh, on a phone
conversation that went soundkind of south.
Uh didn't like the waysomething was happening.
It takes a long time to tell astory and uh I was.
I was arguing with a, with apolice officer, uh, about a
facebook post that he posted onone of our deputies that didn't
(31:49):
even know it was coming, and uhand it it got heated and uh it
ended.
You ended with me using somelanguage that I probably
shouldn't have.
I said, well, let's just agreeon this part of it.
Travis Yates (32:03):
Was it something like let's just agree, you're an
asshole, something like that?
It was worse than that.
Scott Walton (32:09):
But actually I did apologize to my church for
saying what I said and you knowI thought okay.
Travis Yates (32:19):
You said it in defense of an employee.
Yep, I mean, you know nobody'sgoing to say we should act like
that, but when you weredefending an employee I think it
may be, as I don't even knowthe answer you're talking about,
but maybe as bad as those wordswere to your church, I'm
thinking they weren't just saidin jest.
You were defending an employeeand Lord knows we could use a
(32:40):
few more of that.
Scott Walton (32:41):
I never forget some of the good, positive
comments I got after I said thatto a church and people walking
out and a few days later andsome phone calls I got and
everything.
I mean they weren't supportiveof my language but they were
supportive of what I did andthat by itself and get this.
I mean, if we just want to talkabout spineless leadership and
(33:02):
I'll back off, I've used plentyof names and stuff and it's
starting to look like I'mpicking on a specific agency or
a specific person or whatever.
If anybody wanted to know, I'llfill in the blanks later.
But interesting, you know theyoung officer that I had that
conversation with that it wentsouth.
He was done with that rightthen.
He was.
I mean he wasn't.
You know he's gonna let it go.
(33:23):
I mean why he recorded it Idon't know, but people knew it
was recorded.
He wasn't going, he wasn't outon the corner trying to sell you
know recordings of that and andget rich or anything else.
But the police chief at thattime that I don't remember my
mouth about found out that thatwas recorded and uh, and as that
information came to me, uh, hegave the instructions to get
(33:45):
that to the media.
Well, I mean didn't take long.
I mean that afternoon Iremember well, I was going to, I
was going to uh, talk to agroup of people in Chelsea,
oklahoma, and got a little headsup that hey, this recording
just hit the newsroom andeverybody's got it and it's not
hard to look it up.
I don't know how you find it,but I mean Google my own name.
(34:08):
It's up in there, you know.
But there again, dadgum, youknow I won in a weird way.
Maybe see some other guys tryto get on this wagon.
I hope it resonates out thatway if you're being sincere.
But I mean, I got a lot ofpositive feedback from that, I
(34:29):
mean, and I learned from it, youknow.
I mean there's no reason to.
You know you don't need to usethat kind of language to get
your point across.
You know, I mean I'd even beengiven a heads up before I had
the conversation with him thathey, he's the kind of guy that
probably records you andeverything.
But you know, once again, youknow the pissant, spineless
(34:50):
leadership went all the way tothe top and you know I couldn't
prove that if my life dependedon it.
But uh, without throwingpeople's names down, but you
know I get a call from you knowa toss, a uh administrator that
uh said, hey, that thatinstructions to get that
recording to the media happenedtoday.
(35:12):
I knew it was on the way, so soso be it, and hell for a better
way to say it.
I appreciate the publicity theygave me out of it.
Travis Yates (35:21):
What would you tell somebody, scott Because
let's not assume that everybodyin positions of authority
understand the foundation ofleadership.
What we're talking about whatwould you tell them to just
start doing?
What have you seen sosuccessful at your agency?
And what you do I know one ofthem I'll just tell you is so
(35:42):
rare is you spend time withpeople.
You know we so often get to ahigh level, we insulate
ourselves and these officers arearound, these other high-level
leaders, and that's kind of thelast thing you should be doing
when you get to that level,because you lose contact and
touch really quickly.
But if you give them adviceadvice people in positions of
authority, if you want to youwant to start this sort of
(36:02):
foundation of courage and builda culture in your agency where
people will stay no matter what,what, what advice would you
give them?
Scott Walton (36:09):
in, in, in quick, in quick word doesn't say
running my dad.
Well, running like my dad won'ta welding shop, you know.
But I'll expound on thatbecause you know a 40-year-old
undersheriff really steers hisship.
I mean you've been around itlong enough, you know.
I mean John Saban is anundersheriff and he does a great
(36:30):
job and you know the day-to-daypersonnel matters.
He handles them, you know.
I mean I don't get too deep inthe hiring process or the
termination process or anythingJohn does.
That's an ugly part of the job.
But he's not made to look outlike, he's not made to be the
bad guy or anything, because youknow it resonates the decisions
(36:53):
are ours.
Travis Yates (36:54):
So know your role, know your job, empower others,
but you know.
Scott Walton (36:58):
John and I, I mean , used to talk about it a little
bit.
Now it doesn't even come up inthe conversation.
You know, the template thatneeds to lay over that whole
deal is do the right thing.
You know what I mean.
What's the right thing?
You know, sometimes it bites,but you know, more often than
not it doesn't.
And, man, you said some things,you know, that really make me
feel good and I thought, man, Ihit my mark.
(37:19):
You know, I'm 69 years old.
I got no expectations ofleaving anytime soon.
I certainly, when I leave, Iwant the undersheriff, john
Sappington, to be able to stepinto this role, and why?
Because he'll treat them thesame way.
But I mean, what would you do?
And anything that, as you wellknow and you've said it, and
(37:40):
anything that, as you well knowand you've said it.
I mean I drove into this placeJanuary 5, 2009, being a city
cop in Tulsa, oklahoma.
Never a supervisor, damn sure,didn't know anything about
running a jail, and I inheritthis thing that it was an honest
(38:05):
agency, but it was outdated andthe, you know Rogers County had
grown so much.
So, um, I mean I tell you I had, I had no business and wasn't
um prepared to do it and and, bythe grace of God, made it
through some times that shouldhave ate us up.
But you know, going back to youknow dear old dad giving me
(38:26):
some I mean real basic, you knowleadership lessons or
supervisor lesson.
He told me something that I'dprobably hesitate to tell other
people for the reason, like youknow, if you work men, you know
you treat them good.
Out of that I got, you don'ttreat them equal, you treat them
(38:47):
fair, and I think that'ssomething people need to think a
little bit right there.
I mean, you know the guy that'strying his best may not, you
know, may not be the best allthe time, but you know if his
heart's in the right place.
My dad took care of people thatyou know, that that performed
and and and, uh, you know, madehim look good and and and and
(39:09):
got the job done, uh.
But he said you know you can'thave a bad day, you know you
can't show weakness, you can't.
You know you can't cry, youcan't do anything except lead
them in, and you know I mean Igrabbed that.
You know that kind of sucks.
(39:29):
You know some days, you know.
You know we all get a littleheavy-hearted sometimes and you
know you think I was thinkingand who do I go whine to?
You know we could blend thatwith modern day by gosh, let's
get some help, let's talk to acounselor, get some of that load
off of you.
(39:50):
But you know I look at my dadand I promise you he never did
any of that.
You know I mean he didn't gowhine to somebody.
You know he might cuss andscream and kick something across
the room and do something thatlooked pretty mean or aggressive
(40:10):
, but he'd also be the first onethere when somebody was sick or
somebody died in the family orsomebody needed some help and
somebody pulled up at our houseneeding $20 for groceries.
I'm like crap, we ain't got $20to be handing out for groceries
or whatever.
But you know guys tell me thosestories now that you know he
(40:34):
did plenty for people and he hadno time for piss ants.
And it's funny, I look, lookback now people, I knew that
that he didn't respect oranything.
He wasn't like he was going outafter him just trying to rip
their heads off or anything.
He just didn't acknowledge them.
Travis Yates (40:55):
You know, I mean they were like they were
invisible, I mean well, that's athat's an extremely important
point that we could all learnfrom, because we spend so much
time on that chaos?
Scott Walton (41:03):
he wouldn't.
I mean he's the same guy.
I mean I mean he I never sawhim back down from anything.
He, he would.
I mean he would absolutely, Imean fight the devil himself if,
if it came down to that, hewasn't going to take a step
backwards.
I mean if he knew he was rightand and I'm blessed to be around
you know a man like that, andnot just my father, but that
(41:27):
generation you know of men thathe worked around with and and I
even saw and I kind of thought Imean worked on more freight
docks and you know hayfields andand around agriculture and
obviously this blue collar maybewe got.
Maybe just need to stop andstudy blue collar.
You know, uh, for a minute, butI'm so proud to be associated
(41:50):
and have roots that come fromthe blue collar world.
Uh, that, the, the men that Iwas around, uh, not my father,
but my, you know, my friends,their dads, you know we're also
similar.
They, uh, also similar.
They just weren't and I'm not.
If you look at our sheriff'soffice, it's a young bunch of
people that are doing a greatjob.
(42:12):
They're great leaders that aredoing the right thing.
They don't fit the mold of youknow, the Gen X of the
millennial that you know.
So you can't I don't think youcan paint that generation with
the same brush, because we gotgreat examples of that
generation, uh, working here.
You, you'd like to think thefact that, uh, you know if, if
(42:35):
that's spineless leadership inthese other agencies, I think
it's, it's, it's toxic and itgets down on those guys and they
learn that you know, yeah, youjust.
I, part of this world is youjust, you know, you just treat
people like crap and get on downthe road.
Travis Yates (42:51):
It's I want our audience to understand this that
it's an interesting dichotomy,that what a great homage to your
father.
I can't think of a better wayto pay respect to your parents
or to your grandparents or thepeople that poured into you.
Because that is carrying on.
(43:12):
I can say I can speak formyself, even though I didn't
realize it Everything I speakabout leadership I saw in my
father.
Now you don't realize that whenyou go to college and you go
get your doctorate degree andyou're all this, you got all
these certificates on the wall,but at the end of the day, that
doesn't matter.
What matters is what you pourinto other people and, Scott,
that's what I see you do here atyour agency is you're taking
(43:34):
those lessons you learned fromyour father in that generation
and you are pouring into thesepeople, and so, in that respect,
that's what legacy is, becausethat will remain.
They will then in be inpositions as yourself, pouring
into people.
I'd be remiss before gettingoff here before asking you about
your foundation.
I think you're doing incrediblework there.
Talk to us about the StandFirst Foundation.
Scott Walton (43:53):
I'm glad you said that I got wound up on this
other stuff.
I go around thinking about ourfoundation constantly, stand
First Foundation kind of starts.
And here we go, generationthree of the Walton family or
whatever, but my sons blesstheir heart, matt and Joe, two
great guys.
And you know my son, matt and Iwere talking multiple times
(44:18):
about leadership and supervisionand things like that, and he
knows how I think about myfather and and uh, I guess he
just got tired of hearing mebitch and screen about you know,
leadership and not doing thingsand everything.
So stand first foundationstarts off of him just kind of
(44:39):
calling me out, saying, you know, I said everybody's going to
talk about nobody wants to doanything.
And he said, I mean, you know?
He said outside of my job aschairman.
He said you know, what are youdoing that way to carry that
message outside?
You know?
And and uh, another good friendof mine, nick weber, suggested
you know we start a foundationand my intentions, uh, were to
(45:03):
start this foundation that'sgoing to save all first
responders from any hard timesthat they could ever fall down,
include military on that,because this is the core of this
great nation, it's going tosave it.
And I got so much.
I mean the firefighters, emts,the dispatchers, our veterans,
(45:25):
law enforcement I mean don'twant to leave anybody out there.
Firefighters for sure.
I mean these are the peoplethat you know will do what most
people are scared to do, so wewant to do something to save
them.
You know, if they come ondisciplinary action, that wasn't
just or anything.
So I come up with this great,great big idea and I got to
(45:49):
visit with a friend of yours andmine, roger Chastain, that runs
the Tulsa Police Foundation andgreat success there.
And he says, scott, you've gota great idea, but this thing's
got to get narrowed down.
You can carry your word outthere and your you know your
your methods and stuff and youshould, but you got to get this
(46:09):
narrowed down to like onetangible item that we can take
out and put in the hands ofpeople.
Uh, and so, talking to anotherbuddy of ours that you know you
know scott wood, the lawyer thatdef defends police officers in
shootings and used deadly forceand stuff I said, scott, we need
(46:30):
to come up with an idea,something police officers need
that they don't have.
He just spit it right out.
I said ballistic shields.
Long, long answer to a shortquestion there, brother.
So long, long answer to a shortquestion there, brother.
The Stand First Foundationstarted in 2020, and our deal is
(46:54):
to provide ballistic shields toagencies that won't see them or
don't see enough of them alsointo schools as well.
So we've had you know if thatdonor is not so much into giving
to law enforcement but isinterested in protection for the
schools.
We've outfitted a lot of schoolresource officers in the area
and we can go anywhere in theUnited States.
We're buying these shields for$1,000 apiece right now.
(47:17):
We've given now over $100.
I think we're close to $120.
And this thing's starting totake.
Our director, Ryan Sheehan, hasdone a great job of getting it
to the next level.
When you look in the town youknow in surrounding areas we've
got the community leaders andthe people that are certainly
(47:41):
generous to the profession oflaw enforcement on our side.
You know, with the names, wegot not just a name-dropping
thing, but we got the right.
We can't fail with the people.
We got behind this.
Travis Yates (47:53):
Yeah, we'll link that up in the podcast notes.
What's the website, Scott, forpeople to know more information?
Scott Walton (47:57):
It's Stan S-T-A-N-D.
The number one firstorg, and gothere please.
I mean, one of the niches thatwe really try to push out is our
1024 donation, a reoccurringdonation of $10.24 a month that
somebody can sign up and donatethat way.
(48:17):
But, standfirstorg, check usout.
Travis Yates (48:22):
Scott Walton, this has been a pleasure.
You'd never disappoint.
I'm so thankful that you spenttime with us out.
Awesome, scott Walton, this hasbeen a pleasure.
You'd never disappoint.
I'm so thankful that you spenttime with us today.
As we keep hearing around youragency, you will spend time with
those you're trying to pourinto.
Thanks for pouring into ouraudience.
I can't thank you enough.
Thank you for being here.
Thanks for having me, travis,and if you've been listening,
thank.
We hope you have a great 2025.
We think this is a greatkickoff for you.
(48:44):
Thank you so much.
We'll see you next week.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
Thank you for listening to Courageous
Leadership with Travis Yates.
We invite you to join othercourageous leaders at www.
travisyates.
org.
their word.
I grew up hearing your words,all you got.
You're only as good as yourword.
You know, if your word's goodyou can borrow money on your
word.
You know and you know as a kidgrowing up you hear, you know
word, word, word and it doesn'tmean to you a lot, to you maybe
when you're, when you're young.
But looking back, I mean today,I mean I see somebody, I meet
(00:23):
somebody new and all I wonder ishis word good?
I mean, is he good for his word?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Welcome to Courageous Leadership with Travis Yates,
where leaders find the insights,advice and encouragement they
need to lead courageously.
Travis Yates (00:39):
Welcome back to the show.
I'm so honored you decided tospend a few minutes with us here
today, and there's no way tostart the new year than with
this guest.
You've heard me talk about him.
I've mentioned him a lot.
He's in my book.
He's a true inspiration to allof law enforcement.
I'm at his agency as we speak,recording this live for you to
(01:02):
listen at a later time.
Thank you for doing that.
I'm here with Sheriff ScottWalton, rogers County Sheriff's
Office 44 years of lawenforcement experience, a number
of years of municipal agencybefore this.
He's been the sheriff here fora long time and, if I have my
way, he's going to be here for alot longer because he's truly
an inspiration.
(01:22):
Sheriff Scott Walton, how areyou?
Scott Walton (01:24):
doing Travis, I'm good and I'm blessed and I'm
glad to talk about whateverwe're going to talk about,
because we've had some goodconversations over the years and
they just get better and theneed for the subject matter
you're preaching here is growingevery day.
Travis Yates (01:41):
Well, I mean, scott, I've always been thankful
to you because early on, duringCourageous Leadership and our
seminars, you brought us intoyour agency.
I think we trained just abouteverybody and this had been a
long time ago and you committedto that when you started here as
sheriff and you fulfilled thatpromise.
But I've watched you from afar,sometimes up close, of what
you're doing here, and let metell you why I wanted to do this
(02:03):
interview so much.
You don't know this by close ofwhat you're doing here.
And let me tell you why Iwanted to do this interview so
much.
You don't know that.
By the way, people don't knowthis.
We don't prep for these.
Scott's got no idea what we'regoing to talk about.
We're going to free flow this,but it's going to be very
interesting.
And, scott, I've had multiple ofyour employees reach out to me
because people will follow me orfollow the content, and they
reach out.
I get a lot of emails talkingabout how bad things are in some
departments, but what I getfrom your agency is so unique,
(02:26):
it's like a unicorn, right?
It doesn't happen very often.
I've got employees that tell methat the time you spend with
them, the time you invest withthem.
I had one employee a few weeksago say that he threw an idea by
you and you just said I like it, get it done and it's just so
unique compared to what most lawenforcement unfortunately is.
And I unique compared to whatmost law enforcement
(02:51):
unfortunately is.
And I guess I would want tostart this, this interview, with
why are you different?
Why, why do we?
Scott Walton (02:54):
see so many cowards out there in the
profession, but you seem to beso different, you know?
Uh, a quick answer on that and,and I think the longer I
thought about it, I'd still comeback, uh, to a full circle.
And you know, you and I bothtalked about our dads and, uh,
your father was, you know, anadministrator and, I believe,
retired as a captain in FortSmith, arkansas Police
Department right.
Yes, sir, my dad ran a steelshop, you know, and his blue
(03:16):
collar all the way.
He was a, you know, world WarII and Korean War veteran and
Korean War veteran.
And you know, whether you knowit or not, growing up, you know
you might go through a phase oftrying to prove your dad wrong
or whatever, but you always wantto be like him.
And you know, in this smalltown of Claremore that I grew up
in now it's a little big townor whatever, but you know, I
(03:38):
still see men that used to workfor my dad and they said you
know, clint was the best bossthey ever had.
And you know, I guess I wantedsomebody to say that about me
someday, you know.
But you don't.
I mean you don't want it.
You know, you don't want thatas stolen valor or anything.
You want it earned.
You know.
And I think of the fact that Imean I look back now, but you
(04:01):
know, looking back, I mean itwas just the thing that that
fades away.
Now.
I don't care what industry youwere in.
Uh, it's, you know, it's peoplebeing their word.
I grew up hearing your words.
All you got.
You're only as good as yourword, you know.
Uh, if your word's good, youcan borrow money on your word.
You know and, uh, you know.
As a kid growing up you hear,you know word, word, word and
(04:23):
and um.
It doesn't mean to you a lot,to you maybe, when you're young.
But looking back, I mean today,I mean I see somebody, I meet
somebody new, and all I wonderis his word good.
I mean, is he good for his word?
You definitely want yourcommitments to stay strong,
(04:46):
commitments to stay strong andand um man, in this industry now
that we're talking about it, Imean our law enforcement
profession.
Uh, you know, we've seen thebest and the worst examples of
it and sometimes, you know, I'mI'm fortunate to, to be able to
work and and be responsible foran agency that's a real
manageable size.
You know, we've we've got alittle over a hundred employees,
you know, and I'm blessed, Isay, to work with the best men
(05:08):
and women that I've ever workedwith.
Travis Yates (05:17):
Well, it's interesting because I have asked
that question to a lot of greatleaders around the country and
they all come back to what youjust said the way you were
raised and your family andthere's always a part of I know
in my experience and of course,what you described is growing up
with a father that was a leaderyou want to emulate that.
You want to make your fatherproud, which is certainly
strange at our age that we'restill trying to make our father
(05:37):
proud, and there's something tothat.
But the other thing that Ithink is so interesting is you
broke the mode.
Like in law enforcement, wehave this idea that we can send
these folks to FBI and A andleadership schools.
You've got to go up the ranks,you've got to do this, you've
got to do that, and then one day, when you're 65, well, you
could be a chief or you could bea sheriff and you earned your
(05:59):
right.
People know this about you,scott, but you left your other
agency as a police officer norank and I don't know this about
you, scott, but you left yourother agency as a police officer
no rank, and I don't think youever desired to have any rank
and you stepped into a sheriff'sjob a very important position
and literally hit the gas pedal.
And that reminds me a lot ofMark Lamb.
You know Mark Lamb.
People that listen to this knowthat I talk about Mark Lamb a
lot.
I've been in his agency a lot.
(06:20):
He did the same thing.
He had no supervisor experiencein law enforcement, although he
had been a leader.
He'd been a manager in privateindustry before that and he
stepped in and hit the gas.
That, I think that is.
There's something to be saidabout that.
Are we?
Are we almost creating andruining future leaders in law
(06:40):
enforcement by thinking there'sthis pedestal or this system in
place that you have to do beforeyou get there, because you're
almost brainwashed, in a sense,by the time you get there.
Now that doesn't mean thatsomeone can't do that and
succeed.
But, scott, you and I both knowthere's a roadmap to being a
coward where you can succeed ata high level in law enforcement.
You could step over everybodyin your way and get to that
(07:02):
promised land.
We all know a few of thempersonally.
Where do you think we have toget to to duplicate what you've
done here, which is a departmentthat people want to be at, may
not be the highest paiddepartment may not have the
greatest benefits, because youdon't control that, but they
want to work for leadership.
Why can't every departmentemulate that?
Scott Walton (07:22):
You know you've stomped all over it right there
and let's just, I mean we couldtalk for a month about you know
what you just opened up.
But you know to expound on thatI do, I think we got so used to
.
You know an educational and Imean I'm all about education and
training and you knowstandardized ways of discipline
(07:45):
and different things like this.
But you know you can't take thehuman part out of it and you
know that's the part of this.
You know I spoke about myfather.
The first police sergeant I everworked for was the greatest one
that ever existed and that wasBob Meyer.
If anybody ever got theblessing to work for Bob Meyer,
he was a fair guy.
Blessing to work for bob meyer,he was a fair guy.
(08:09):
Uh, I mean just uh, you know tome, uh, he just in every way
was the best example of a goodleader as a street sergeant.
You know, hardcore, uh, oldschool, he could call it
whatever you want but I mean gotthe job done.
You know, was compassionate whenhe needed to be.
Uh, you know, was tougher inhell when he needed to be.
You know, was tougher in hellwhen he needed to be.
But you know we can't sendpeople to an academy or training
(08:30):
that you know that preparesthem.
And again you said it.
If all we wanted to talk abouttoday was you know how to rise
through the ranks in an agencyyou and I both come from Tulsa
Police Department how to getwhere you want to go, it would
(08:50):
be an ugly lesson.
It would be a sickening lesson,equally as sickening.
We've seen people in thatposition that got there by the
way of.
Travis Yates (09:02):
I mean, let's just swallow it, let's just solve it
out.
Scott Walton (09:06):
We've seen serial liars, serial liars, yeah.
And you've got to say this,you've got to do this.
If somebody, if you can walkacross somebody's head and stick
their head under the train, youjust need to do that because it
shows that you're not scared todiscipline people.
We don't slow down enough.
(09:27):
You know to think that.
You know let's put the right orwrong element in this thing.
You know what the person do.
Let's just get rid of them,whatever.
And the best, worst example Icould give anybody in the whole
wide world is Betty Shelby'sdisaster of a career.
Travis Yates (09:46):
Yeah, and I've got that on my notes.
Let's back that up and let'stell them exactly sort of what
happened.
And I'll open up with becauseBetty worked for me the year
before this incident happened.
Betty Shelby was involved in ashooting completely justified.
The investigator that workedwith her said it was completely
justified.
Scott Walton (10:02):
But it was sort of this pre-George Floydyd, the
very beginning, right after theferguson type thing, and you saw
everybody in sync bow down tothe loudest voices right, you
know we you probably got filefootage of the Press release and
I sat in my office thatafternoon and watched, you know,
the press conference, not pressrelease.
(10:24):
I watched the press conferencewhere they talked about this and
, my gosh, you had the policechief, chuck Jordan.
You had Steve Coonswaller,district attorney.
You had the US attorney, dannyWilliams at that time the mayor
everybody got up and apologizedfor Betty's actions.
They didn't slow down enough totalk about.
(10:45):
You know she was trained to doa job.
You know there was a difficultdecision to be made there.
You know the component that sheneeded to go home to her family
that night.
No, I mean we immediatelyapologized and at the conclusion
of that press conference, youknow I thought two things.
I mean Betty screwed, betty'shead's under the train and all
(11:10):
the truth didn't matter at thatpoint.
No, and you know you just sawthe best example of spinalist
leadership.
I thought, okay, why?
I mean you know tragedy?
Yeah, you know a man lost hislife because of his stupid
actions and this is just.
I mean you fast forward throughthat deal.
Betty goes through eight monthsof hell thinking that she's I
(11:32):
mean you talked to her idea ofwhatever.
She knew she was going to go tothe penitentiary.
I mean that was her belief andshe probably had plenty of you
know reasons to believe that, bythe grace of God, she survived
it.
Travis Yates (11:44):
Well, the irony of it is you had figures,
authority figures that we putour trust in to do the right
thing, that we, you know, weelect or we hire, and they all
left it to a jury to do theright thing People we don't pay
to do it, people we don't think,but the jury actually took all
those facts and made the rightdecision.
But you've ruined a family.
Scott Walton (12:08):
Betty walked out a free woman with a ruined career
.
You know, I never will forgetthis conversation.
First conversation I had withBetty after this whole deal was
over with I asked her.
I said hey, I'm curious how theconversations went with you and
Police Chief Chuck Jordan.
And she looked at me kind ofweird and said what do you mean?
I said just, you know what didhe say?
(12:29):
And she said nothing.
And I said you never had aconversation with him.
She says no.
Second conversation I ever hadwith Betty I said has Jordan
said anything to you?
Yet he said yeah, he came in myoffice, pointed his finger at
me.
When she came back to work,they put her in a little closet
and give her about 20 minutesworth of work so she could go
crazy.
And he come in and said,pointed his finger at me and
(12:52):
said you know, you're here foryour own protection, not
punishment, and walked out, youknow?
And I thought, okay, what didBetty do wrong?
I mean why are you treating herlike a piece of crap and
continue to punish that you knowthat girl for again doing her
job?
And it keeps going on.
Travis Yates (13:10):
Yeah, I mean we could duplicate that story
across the country.
Right, and unfortunately it'sstill happening.
And when we talk aboutcourageous leadership, that's
the brunt of it.
It's easy to lead in times ofpeace, but in times of chaos and
activists and media andpressure, well, the truth is
still the truth and you stillhave to lead.
Scott Walton (13:26):
And you look at that day, I thought you know I'd
have respect for Jordan if he'dstood up there in that press
conference and said we're goingto investigate this.
I mean I mean inside and out,always.
But we're going to do it.
I mean we're going to do it ina fair way.
(13:46):
The fact that that poor girlaccepted the job to be a Tulsa
police officer doesn't shortcutor give her any less of an
opportunity to justify heractions.
But I mean that whole deal.
They accelerated it.
I mean you know the affidavit.
Travis Yates (13:56):
Well for the audience, because this happened
a while back.
You may not know this, in fact,I'm sure you don't know this
they charged her before theinvestigation was complete.
Now we've seen that repeatedacross the country, because
that's what cowards do.
They think that that helps them, but it actually hurts them.
Right?
Because at the end of the dayoftentimes we see this time and
time again the jury makes their,they take all the information,
(14:18):
all the facts, the fullinvestigation, and they make.
The jury makes their.
They take all the information,all the facts, the full
investigation.
They make the appropriatedecision based on case law, and
then the people that werescreaming to charge her are now
screaming the whole system isrigged, which is exactly what
happened here, right?
Scott Walton (14:30):
Well, I mean and I think it's the first, first
example, I remember thathappening in Tulsa, oklahoma,
and you know Al Sharpton comesto town, he screams and yells I
think he gets paid to do thatMakes his demands that Betty's
arrested and gosh, what happensnext Betty gets arrested, you
know, and you know her concernsat that time, you know, is death
threats.
I mean, we all know that.
(14:52):
You know they had to goliterally hide and you know she.
You know the roller coasterthat she went through.
I mean financially, theyweren't prepared.
(15:25):
You know she.
You know the roller coasterthat she went through, I mean
financially, they weren the road, you know screaming and yelling
in a car.
Uh, knowing that, hey, thatcould lead you to some problems.
Betty, betty did her job.
Betty walked into a situationthat even some police officers
wouldn't, you know.
And especially after thoseincidents, uh, and we all know
the one I think it was atChicago right after that where a
female officer got beaten neardeath.
Travis Yates (15:44):
Yeah.
When the chief asked her whyshe didn't shoot him, she said I
didn't want to shoot an unarmedman because it would happen
just right after the Shelbyincident.
And she's lucky to be alivetoday.
Scott Walton (15:54):
And you just think about.
You know, I would hate to think, and I know I'll be able to go
to my grave saying that I didn'tdo anything in any leadership
or administrative role thatwould add to a police officer.
Think of that, bitch down anddidn't say that.
We'll just do our job, like itshould be done, uh, everybody in
(16:26):
that leadership role policechief, district attorney,
anybody that got up there, themayor they all said it, um and
did it, uh, added they.
They added to the policeofficer's decision making.
If I didn't get too windy onthat and make sense, I mean
because you know, gosh dang, youknow you can't tell me if
(16:47):
you're a seasoned police officernear retirement.
You know you've got your housepaid off and you know things are
starting to look pretty goodfor the future.
You know, and finally, donethis for this long and
everything, I'm going to risk itby shooting a guy here that
needs to be shot.
You know, and finally, donethis for this long and
everything, I'm going to risk it, uh, by shooting a guy here
that needs to be shot.
You know, and and um, that's ahard way to say it maybe, uh,
(17:08):
but I mean it's realistic ashell.
Uh, you, you, you, you unwinduh, everything there about you
know a tough decision to makeanyway, um, and you went through
it, I went through it.
I mean situational exercisesand and, and we got in service
train on it after we graduatedfrom the academy and everything.
(17:30):
It was all about make thedecision.
You know I heard peoplescreaming in my ear and slapped
me on the back of the headsaying you might not want to go
home tonight.
Maybe your partner does.
You know you've got you've gotpartners and people here that
you took an oath to protect.
Betty did her job.
You know it wasn't.
And again, how many people wantto walk into that situation and
(17:52):
take care of business?
Most of them would gladly drivepast it or avoid it at all
costs.
And when you see again, I meanI watched that press conference
and you know, for lack of betterwords, I mean that's the most
chicken shit leader decisionsacross the board that I ever saw
made in my life.
Travis Yates (18:11):
Well, you saw that in your own backyard.
We've seen that, of course,across the country.
And, scott, you did somethingduring that time period and you
continue to do it today that Idon't see anybody else doing
here or across the country forthe most part is you stood up
for that officer.
That officer did not work foryou, she did not work in your
agency.
You, as a leader here in anadjoining county, stood up for
her during that time, to thisday as people just listen to,
(18:34):
and then you offered her a jobwhen she felt like she couldn't
work at that agency anymore andyou took a lot of heat for that,
and I have an immense amount ofrespect, because this was not
giving somebody a second chance.
You've obviously done that aswell.
This was giving somebody thecareer back that was taken from
her at no fault of her own.
(18:54):
We can all repeat what you justsaid.
Of course it's tragic.
Of course it shouldn't havehappened.
It doesn't change the fact whathappened and what nobody
offered during that time periodis what would you have done?
I mean nobody, nobody.
Everybody that wanted tocriticize her never gave an
alternative.
Well, what would you have done?
Because law enforcement isn'tin a position to do what the
citizens during that day, whichwas, running away and call 911.
(19:15):
We're not in that position.
We don't get to do that, and sowe won't debate if it was wrong
or not, because it was clearlywrong.
But I think it's.
Here you are and I've alreadysort of built a foundation.
You end up a sheriff, no formalleadership training, and then
you're the only person in thiscommunity that is standing up
for this one officer.
(19:36):
Once again.
You knew you would take heatfor that.
You knew that you would get themedia headlines for that, and
you certainly did.
You did it anyway.
Explain that to us you know it.
Scott Walton (19:48):
It's funny how it came about because I I was
talking to a reporter, localnews station and and we were
done with whatever story we weretalking about and uh, they were
putting their equipment up andeverything.
And he goes, could I talk toyou a little bit about betty
shelby's deal?
And said sure, and we talked,uh, about it and I really liked
(20:09):
what the reporter had to say.
And uh, he said let me ask youa question, would you hire?
And I said in a heartbeat, andhe said you want to do a story
on it right now?
I said, let's do.
He sets his equipment back upand away.
(20:29):
We went with that deal andmaybe that kind of got some
stuff going.
I'd never talked to Betty aboutit.
I didn't really know Betty.
I knew her husband thought wellof him, but I thought first of
all I actually reached out toher and said we did this story.
I don't know what your plansfor the future are, but if
(20:50):
that's an interest to you let'ssit down and talk.
And we did.
And she said I got some thingsjust in life.
I need to get put togetherbecause last eight months have
been hell, and so I get it.
And you know I said, if you'reready to, you know to do
something, let's sit down andtalk.
Okay, I'll call you.
Some time goes by, she calls, wesit down.
(21:12):
And her request was you know,if I do this, I mean I want to
apply and interview and doeverything.
Just, I mean, and that's theway we do it anyway, I don't
just say, hey, you want a joband you know you're on or
whatever.
And, uh, she went through boardinterview.
Um, she, I mean again, likelike square one, start in law
(21:35):
enforcement career.
Um, hit the ground running withus.
Uh, she said, I really I needto start on a part-time basis.
Actually, she, she reserved forus for a while and, um, I mean,
and just to get the feel of thecounty and see how much
different this was because Itold her it's drastically
different.
Uh, you know, out here in themiddle of you know, a county
that's, um, you know, spread outas opposed to, you know,
(21:59):
metropolitan areas.
I want you know that shevolunteers for a little bit.
People liked her.
She started part-time and theneventually full-time and I mean
truly an asset.
She's still involved with ouragency, but she has to do that
remotely for the simple reasonthat you know her and her
(22:21):
husband had to move out.
I mean things.
You know it wasn't over with.
Then you know he had relativesthat became ill, that they had
to be cared for.
They would have probably had tomove anyway, but they move out
of state and sad story.
(22:43):
But you know, she calls me oneday and she said you know, I've
applied, you know, for you knowa fishing game, you know like a
game warden, uh, wildlifeofficer, um, in this other state
, and could I use you forreference?
And and uh for full-timeemployment I said absolutely.
You know, hung the phone upafter a conversation I I thought
she didn't have a snowballchance of hell getting that job.
(23:04):
They'll Google her name and it'sover with before it starts.
They'll go to the next one thatdoesn't have the headlines that
she has when you Google hername.
Honestly, they've altered theiridentity, you know, they've
taken on new careers andeverything and I thought you
(23:27):
know why.
You know what I mean, Becauseshe showed up for work one day
and did her job and I think thatwhole deal, Betty, wasn't a
weak link.
I mean, the weak link was thespineless leadership throughout
the top of the department and onthrough the DA's office.
Travis Yates (23:44):
Well, and you describe what we've seen so
often.
This is, of course, the endresult of horrible leadership,
coward leadership.
But getting back to whatcourage is I mean?
You displayed it, right.
You had no reason.
There was no benefit to youProbably it was to your demise
(24:05):
to stand up for her, but youknew what was right.
In fact, here's the thing,scott unless you're a psychopath
, everyone knows what's right.
Why do people avoid doingwhat's right, like I have?
No doubt?
I know these men that you justtalked about in this chain of
command.
I've had great interactionswith them.
I've seen them make rightdecisions.
(24:25):
But when this decision came,there was so much to lose.
Whether you call it reputation,which you don't control anyway
Shakespeare says it's fleetingor whether it's their career or
whatever else, whether it'spolitics Right they had.
It was such a detrimentaldecision they steered away from
that right and wrong metric.
But that leadership isn'tleadership if you're not willing
(24:49):
to do what's right at all times.
You have displayed that timeand time again.
That's not the only officer youreached out to that has been
victims of cowards.
Right to that has been victimsof cowards, right I mean it's.
It's just crazy to me that Iwill.
I will keep saying this thatyou're the only you want.
Scott Walton (25:07):
If we can name the courageous leaders on one hand,
there's not enough of them, andyou're one of them, right I
want to be, um, you know, I justum, you know the, the internal
reward of that, and you knowwe're in a profession here I'm
not telling you anything thatyou know it's, it's full of type
, a personalities.
You know, and, and, and I goback to that old saying I heard
(25:27):
a long time ago you know,everybody wants to be a cowboy.
Tell us time to do cowboy shit.
And and then you know, let's,let's find something else to do.
And and, uh, what's mike tyson?
Travis Yates (25:36):
say everyone's getting a fight till they get
hit in the mouth.
Scott Walton (25:40):
And you know those things are never going to go
out of style.
And you know, I just honestlyand we've seen it I mean you
know we know some of the bestand the worst uh forms of life
in the law enforcementprofession and uh, sadly enough,
you know, some of those uh low,crawling uh forms are able to
(26:05):
quickly climb that that ladderof success through the ranks.
Uh, if you know how to play thegame and you don't mind, you
know selling your soul and andand literally, you know taking
on a piss ant mentality of howwe're going to lead.
And I, I mean uh, that'sanother word my dad always used,
you know, I mean uh, and itwasn't in a favorable way, you
(26:27):
know.
I mean uh, if he calledsomebody a piss ant, uh, they,
they, they didn't display thosethings and I'm thankful I come
out.
And you know you're youngerthan I am, but I mean you're out
of the same mold of people.
I mean those guys they didn'tcall it America's greatest
(26:48):
generation for nothing, you know, but the weak ones weren't
cowards, you know.
And now, and what infuriates memore, if we go to the corporate
world, you know it, I meanyou've been all through it.
There's spineless people in itand there's, there's people, I'm
sure, out there I've neverreally been in the corporate
world that much that that aregoing to do the right thing and
(27:12):
treat people right and display,you know, really biblical
principles that are so simple.
You know.
I mean treat somebody like youwant to be treated.
You know, and that's the partthat bothers me when we get into
a profession of law enforcementwhere, yeah, I mean I want to
(27:34):
put on these clothes and anddress like a badass and and go
out and be a badass and and allthis kind of stuff.
But when it, when it's time tomake a decision, you know that
that, uh, you might have to wear.
But you know I'm internally theway I feel.
I can say I've never had anopportunity in my life to have a
(27:56):
better feeling about myselfinternally than when I hired
Betty Shelby.
I knew I was doing the rightthing.
When I hired Wayne Brown, when Ihired Bruta George, guys were,
(28:18):
I mean, I'm not just throwingTulsa Police Department under
the bus, but these were allthree individuals that Tulsa
Police Department had kicked tothe curb and they're fine here
and, trust me, we had, beforethey came to work here, we had
that conversation.
I said, you know there's peoplethat would love to see me fail
and you fail, so we don't needto fail.
Betty and I had that sameconversation.
(28:39):
We knew it.
But you know you think, boy,just what if anything happened?
You know we could.
I mean, but what again?
What did those guys do wrong?
I mean, you know Drew DeGeorgehadn't been here very long.
I mean, he's a standout.
Travis Yates (28:55):
Well, he's an all-star.
What they did wrong was theywere great at what they did,
which is a whole otherconversation.
Right, I mean, we're notthrowing a blanket generic on
all law enforcement, but youhave these pockets in this
profession to where?
I mean?
I just had a conversation witha guy in Sacramento and he said,
man, this kid worked for me andhe was brilliant and the
(29:18):
department recognized he wasbrilliant and the department
shut him down at every angle.
He left it with like six yearson Now he's developed some
technology that's made him amillionaire.
He said sometimes he says thisquote to me sometimes you can be
too smart for this job.
And that's leadership issue.
Because what leaders should do,scott, what I've seen you do
time and time again is you leaninto it.
You take the expertise you havehere in this agency and you
lean into it and say do yourthing.
(29:38):
You give them the freedom to doit.
And that's why I think and I'lltell you right now I won't name
names, but I've had people thatwork for you come up to me that
said you know, I've beenoffered a job A, b, c or D,
better benefits, betterstability, better salary, but
I'm not leaving, scott Walton,that relationship leadership to
me how you.
I mean, I had a guy tell methat he gave you a call one day
(30:02):
and you spent two hours with himon the phone talking to him.
This should not be rare and Ineed people to understand.
This is how it's supposed.
Scott Walton is not a superstandout leader although I think
you are, scott.
Scott Walton should be the norm.
Scott Walton (30:17):
That's what we're talking about.
You know, nothing could piss meoff quicker and more than
somebody thinking I'm trying todo this just to be a John Wayne
image or a coward.
And I look at that deal.
You know I don't want it tolook that way and some people
say, okay, it's anotherpublicity stunt.
You know, you and I both hadenough time talking to the media
and I enjoy talking to themedia and I want to get our
(30:39):
message out there and the onlyway I got to do it is through
our local media.
Local media treats us great andI don't miss any opportunity to
stand in front of a camera andtell what we're doing over here
in Rogers County.
But you know I don't want it toever come across like, okay,
here Walton comes with anotherpublicity stunt.
(31:00):
If I was I'm not smart enoughto pull off a publicity stunt
like hiring Betty Shelby, and Ithought, you know, if I ever was
going to pull one off, I'd haveseen that coming way down the
pike.
I've got to go hire BettyShelby.
Well, well, that would be apretty bad publicity stunt, yeah
no, I think it comes full bythat circle, you know, because,
(31:27):
uh, you know, we had a deal andI got recorded, uh, on a phone
conversation that went soundkind of south.
Uh didn't like the waysomething was happening.
It takes a long time to tell astory and uh I was.
I was arguing with a, with apolice officer, uh, about a
facebook post that he posted onone of our deputies that didn't
(31:49):
even know it was coming, and uhand it it got heated and uh it
ended.
You ended with me using somelanguage that I probably
shouldn't have.
I said, well, let's just agreeon this part of it.
Travis Yates (32:03):
Was it something like let's just agree, you're an
asshole, something like that?
It was worse than that.
Scott Walton (32:09):
But actually I did apologize to my church for
saying what I said and you knowI thought okay.
Travis Yates (32:19):
You said it in defense of an employee.
Yep, I mean, you know nobody'sgoing to say we should act like
that, but when you weredefending an employee I think it
may be, as I don't even knowthe answer you're talking about,
but maybe as bad as those wordswere to your church, I'm
thinking they weren't just saidin jest.
You were defending an employeeand Lord knows we could use a
(32:40):
few more of that.
Scott Walton (32:41):
I never forget some of the good, positive
comments I got after I said thatto a church and people walking
out and a few days later andsome phone calls I got and
everything.
I mean they weren't supportiveof my language but they were
supportive of what I did andthat by itself and get this.
I mean, if we just want to talkabout spineless leadership and
(33:02):
I'll back off, I've used plentyof names and stuff and it's
starting to look like I'mpicking on a specific agency or
a specific person or whatever.
If anybody wanted to know, I'llfill in the blanks later.
But interesting, you know theyoung officer that I had that
conversation with that it wentsouth.
He was done with that rightthen.
He was.
I mean he wasn't.
You know he's gonna let it go.
(33:23):
I mean why he recorded it Idon't know, but people knew it
was recorded.
He wasn't going, he wasn't outon the corner trying to sell you
know recordings of that and andget rich or anything else.
But the police chief at thattime that I don't remember my
mouth about found out that thatwas recorded and uh, and as that
information came to me, uh, hegave the instructions to get
(33:45):
that to the media.
Well, I mean didn't take long.
I mean that afternoon Iremember well, I was going to, I
was going to uh, talk to agroup of people in Chelsea,
oklahoma, and got a little headsup that hey, this recording
just hit the newsroom andeverybody's got it and it's not
hard to look it up.
I don't know how you find it,but I mean Google my own name.
(34:08):
It's up in there, you know.
But there again, dadgum, youknow I won in a weird way.
Maybe see some other guys tryto get on this wagon.
I hope it resonates out thatway if you're being sincere.
But I mean, I got a lot ofpositive feedback from that, I
(34:29):
mean, and I learned from it, youknow.
I mean there's no reason to.
You know you don't need to usethat kind of language to get
your point across.
You know, I mean I'd even beengiven a heads up before I had
the conversation with him thathey, he's the kind of guy that
probably records you andeverything.
But you know, once again, youknow the pissant, spineless
(34:50):
leadership went all the way tothe top and you know I couldn't
prove that if my life dependedon it.
But uh, without throwingpeople's names down, but you
know I get a call from you knowa toss, a uh administrator that
uh said, hey, that thatinstructions to get that
recording to the media happenedtoday.
(35:12):
I knew it was on the way, so soso be it, and hell for a better
way to say it.
I appreciate the publicity theygave me out of it.
Travis Yates (35:21):
What would you tell somebody, scott Because
let's not assume that everybodyin positions of authority
understand the foundation ofleadership.
What we're talking about whatwould you tell them to just
start doing?
What have you seen sosuccessful at your agency?
And what you do I know one ofthem I'll just tell you is so
(35:42):
rare is you spend time withpeople.
You know we so often get to ahigh level, we insulate
ourselves and these officers arearound, these other high-level
leaders, and that's kind of thelast thing you should be doing
when you get to that level,because you lose contact and
touch really quickly.
But if you give them adviceadvice people in positions of
authority, if you want to youwant to start this sort of
(36:02):
foundation of courage and builda culture in your agency where
people will stay no matter what,what, what advice would you
give them?
Scott Walton (36:09):
in, in, in quick, in quick word doesn't say
running my dad.
Well, running like my dad won'ta welding shop, you know.
But I'll expound on thatbecause you know a 40-year-old
undersheriff really steers hisship.
I mean you've been around itlong enough, you know.
I mean John Saban is anundersheriff and he does a great
(36:30):
job and you know the day-to-daypersonnel matters.
He handles them, you know.
I mean I don't get too deep inthe hiring process or the
termination process or anythingJohn does.
That's an ugly part of the job.
But he's not made to look outlike, he's not made to be the
bad guy or anything, because youknow it resonates the decisions
(36:53):
are ours.
Travis Yates (36:54):
So know your role, know your job, empower others,
but you know.
Scott Walton (36:58):
John and I, I mean , used to talk about it a little
bit.
Now it doesn't even come up inthe conversation.
You know, the template thatneeds to lay over that whole
deal is do the right thing.
You know what I mean.
What's the right thing?
You know, sometimes it bites,but you know, more often than
not it doesn't.
And, man, you said some things,you know, that really make me
feel good and I thought, man, Ihit my mark.
(37:19):
You know, I'm 69 years old.
I got no expectations ofleaving anytime soon.
I certainly, when I leave, Iwant the undersheriff, john
Sappington, to be able to stepinto this role, and why?
Because he'll treat them thesame way.
But I mean, what would you do?
And anything that, as you wellknow and you've said it, and
(37:40):
anything that, as you well knowand you've said it.
I mean I drove into this placeJanuary 5, 2009, being a city
cop in Tulsa, oklahoma.
Never a supervisor, damn sure,didn't know anything about
running a jail, and I inheritthis thing that it was an honest
(38:05):
agency, but it was outdated andthe, you know Rogers County had
grown so much.
So, um, I mean I tell you I had, I had no business and wasn't
um prepared to do it and and, bythe grace of God, made it
through some times that shouldhave ate us up.
But you know, going back to youknow dear old dad giving me
(38:26):
some I mean real basic, you knowleadership lessons or
supervisor lesson.
He told me something that I'dprobably hesitate to tell other
people for the reason, like youknow, if you work men, you know
you treat them good.
Out of that I got, you don'ttreat them equal, you treat them
(38:47):
fair, and I think that'ssomething people need to think a
little bit right there.
I mean, you know the guy that'strying his best may not, you
know, may not be the best allthe time, but you know if his
heart's in the right place.
My dad took care of people thatyou know, that that performed
and and and, uh, you know, madehim look good and and and and
(39:09):
got the job done, uh.
But he said you know you can'thave a bad day, you know you
can't show weakness, you can't.
You know you can't cry, youcan't do anything except lead
them in, and you know I mean Igrabbed that.
You know that kind of sucks.
(39:29):
You know some days, you know.
You know we all get a littleheavy-hearted sometimes and you
know you think I was thinkingand who do I go whine to?
You know we could blend thatwith modern day by gosh, let's
get some help, let's talk to acounselor, get some of that load
off of you.
(39:50):
But you know I look at my dadand I promise you he never did
any of that.
You know I mean he didn't gowhine to somebody.
You know he might cuss andscream and kick something across
the room and do something thatlooked pretty mean or aggressive
(40:10):
, but he'd also be the first onethere when somebody was sick or
somebody died in the family orsomebody needed some help and
somebody pulled up at our houseneeding $20 for groceries.
I'm like crap, we ain't got $20to be handing out for groceries
or whatever.
But you know guys tell me thosestories now that you know he
(40:34):
did plenty for people and he hadno time for piss ants.
And it's funny, I look, lookback now people, I knew that
that he didn't respect oranything.
He wasn't like he was going outafter him just trying to rip
their heads off or anything.
He just didn't acknowledge them.
Travis Yates (40:55):
You know, I mean they were like they were
invisible, I mean well, that's athat's an extremely important
point that we could all learnfrom, because we spend so much
time on that chaos?
Scott Walton (41:03):
he wouldn't.
I mean he's the same guy.
I mean I mean he I never sawhim back down from anything.
He, he would.
I mean he would absolutely, Imean fight the devil himself if,
if it came down to that, hewasn't going to take a step
backwards.
I mean if he knew he was rightand and I'm blessed to be around
you know a man like that, andnot just my father, but that
(41:27):
generation you know of men thathe worked around with and and I
even saw and I kind of thought Imean worked on more freight
docks and you know hayfields andand around agriculture and
obviously this blue collar maybewe got.
Maybe just need to stop andstudy blue collar.
You know, uh, for a minute, butI'm so proud to be associated
(41:50):
and have roots that come fromthe blue collar world.
Uh, that, the, the men that Iwas around, uh, not my father,
but my, you know, my friends,their dads, you know we're also
similar.
They, uh, also similar.
They just weren't and I'm not.
If you look at our sheriff'soffice, it's a young bunch of
people that are doing a greatjob.
(42:12):
They're great leaders that aredoing the right thing.
They don't fit the mold of youknow, the Gen X of the
millennial that you know.
So you can't I don't think youcan paint that generation with
the same brush, because we gotgreat examples of that
generation, uh, working here.
You, you'd like to think thefact that, uh, you know if, if
(42:35):
that's spineless leadership inthese other agencies, I think
it's, it's, it's toxic and itgets down on those guys and they
learn that you know, yeah, youjust.
I, part of this world is youjust, you know, you just treat
people like crap and get on downthe road.
Travis Yates (42:51):
It's I want our audience to understand this that
it's an interesting dichotomy,that what a great homage to your
father.
I can't think of a better wayto pay respect to your parents
or to your grandparents or thepeople that poured into you.
Because that is carrying on.
(43:12):
I can say I can speak formyself, even though I didn't
realize it Everything I speakabout leadership I saw in my
father.
Now you don't realize that whenyou go to college and you go
get your doctorate degree andyou're all this, you got all
these certificates on the wall,but at the end of the day, that
doesn't matter.
What matters is what you pourinto other people and, Scott,
that's what I see you do here atyour agency is you're taking
(43:34):
those lessons you learned fromyour father in that generation
and you are pouring into thesepeople, and so, in that respect,
that's what legacy is, becausethat will remain.
They will then in be inpositions as yourself, pouring
into people.
I'd be remiss before gettingoff here before asking you about
your foundation.
I think you're doing incrediblework there.
Talk to us about the StandFirst Foundation.
Scott Walton (43:53):
I'm glad you said that I got wound up on this
other stuff.
I go around thinking about ourfoundation constantly, stand
First Foundation kind of starts.
And here we go, generationthree of the Walton family or
whatever, but my sons blesstheir heart, matt and Joe, two
great guys.
And you know my son, matt and Iwere talking multiple times
(44:18):
about leadership and supervisionand things like that, and he
knows how I think about myfather and and uh, I guess he
just got tired of hearing mebitch and screen about you know,
leadership and not doing thingsand everything.
So stand first foundationstarts off of him just kind of
(44:39):
calling me out, saying, you know, I said everybody's going to
talk about nobody wants to doanything.
And he said, I mean, you know?
He said outside of my job aschairman.
He said you know, what are youdoing that way to carry that
message outside?
You know?
And and uh, another good friendof mine, nick weber, suggested
you know we start a foundationand my intentions, uh, were to
(45:03):
start this foundation that'sgoing to save all first
responders from any hard timesthat they could ever fall down,
include military on that,because this is the core of this
great nation, it's going tosave it.
And I got so much.
I mean the firefighters, emts,the dispatchers, our veterans,
(45:25):
law enforcement I mean don'twant to leave anybody out there.
Firefighters for sure.
I mean these are the peoplethat you know will do what most
people are scared to do, so wewant to do something to save
them.
You know, if they come ondisciplinary action, that wasn't
just or anything.
So I come up with this great,great big idea and I got to
(45:49):
visit with a friend of yours andmine, roger Chastain, that runs
the Tulsa Police Foundation andgreat success there.
And he says, scott, you've gota great idea, but this thing's
got to get narrowed down.
You can carry your word outthere and your you know your
your methods and stuff and youshould, but you got to get this
(46:09):
narrowed down to like onetangible item that we can take
out and put in the hands ofpeople.
Uh, and so, talking to anotherbuddy of ours that you know you
know scott wood, the lawyer thatdef defends police officers in
shootings and used deadly forceand stuff I said, scott, we need
(46:30):
to come up with an idea,something police officers need
that they don't have.
He just spit it right out.
I said ballistic shields.
Long, long answer to a shortquestion there, brother.
So long, long answer to a shortquestion there, brother.
The Stand First Foundationstarted in 2020, and our deal is
(46:54):
to provide ballistic shields toagencies that won't see them or
don't see enough of them alsointo schools as well.
So we've had you know if thatdonor is not so much into giving
to law enforcement but isinterested in protection for the
schools.
We've outfitted a lot of schoolresource officers in the area
and we can go anywhere in theUnited States.
We're buying these shields for$1,000 apiece right now.
(47:17):
We've given now over $100.
I think we're close to $120.
And this thing's starting totake.
Our director, Ryan Sheehan, hasdone a great job of getting it
to the next level.
When you look in the town youknow in surrounding areas we've
got the community leaders andthe people that are certainly
(47:41):
generous to the profession oflaw enforcement on our side.
You know, with the names, wegot not just a name-dropping
thing, but we got the right.
We can't fail with the people.
We got behind this.
Travis Yates (47:53):
Yeah, we'll link that up in the podcast notes.
What's the website, Scott, forpeople to know more information?
Scott Walton (47:57):
It's Stan S-T-A-N-D.
The number one firstorg, and gothere please.
I mean, one of the niches thatwe really try to push out is our
1024 donation, a reoccurringdonation of $10.24 a month that
somebody can sign up and donatethat way.
(48:17):
But, standfirstorg, check usout.
Travis Yates (48:22):
Scott Walton, this has been a pleasure.
You'd never disappoint.
I'm so thankful that you spenttime with us out.
Awesome, scott Walton, this hasbeen a pleasure.
You'd never disappoint.
I'm so thankful that you spenttime with us today.
As we keep hearing around youragency, you will spend time with
those you're trying to pourinto.
Thanks for pouring into ouraudience.
I can't thank you enough.
Thank you for being here.
Thanks for having me, travis,and if you've been listening,
thank.
We hope you have a great 2025.
We think this is a greatkickoff for you.
(48:44):
Thank you so much.
We'll see you next week.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
Thank you for listening to Courageous
Leadership with Travis Yates.
We invite you to join othercourageous leaders at www.
travisyates.
org.
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