The Consequences of Courage with FBI Whistleblower Steve Friend

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Steve Friend's story is one of transformation and resilience. From a planned career in accounting to walking the beat in Savannah, Georgia, Steve's journey took a pivotal turn when an encounter with NYPD transit cops sparked his passion for law enforcement. Encouraged by his wife, Steve eventually joined the FBI, where his experiences underscore the critical nature of hands-on experience in local police work before transitioning to federal duties. This episode details Steve's unique path and the skills he acquired along the way, emphasizing his commitment to integrity and justice.

Within the FBI, Steve faced significant challenges, particularly in the wake of January 6th, where the agency's shifting focus from child exploitation to domestic terrorism raised questions about resource allocation and priorities. He shares insights into the internal pressures that led to questionable decisions and political influences that skewed the FBI's mission. His commitment to truth over "wins" in court highlights the ethical dilemmas he faced, driven by personal beliefs and upbringing. Steve's experiences paint a vivid picture of the conflict between upholding one's values and conforming to an organization's flawed practices.

As a whistleblower, Steve's resolve was tested in unimaginable ways. His decision to speak out against perceived injustices within the FBI led to severe professional and personal repercussions, including the loss of security clearance and threats to his family's livelihood. Despite the hardships, he found solace and support in unexpected places and continues to advocate for transparency and reform. His journey serves as both a cautionary tale and an inspiration, reminding us of the importance of standing up for justice and the potential costs involved. Listen in as Steve shares his story and discusses the vital need for reform within federal agencies.

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Episode Transcript

Steve Friend (00:00):
It's hard to say, I don't know.
It's almost a nature versusnurture.
I know from a very young age Iwas always like this, this
really uptight or upright person, that doing the right thing was
always the most important thingto me.
I know that was instilled to meby my parents as well.
I just even take it out of thelaw enforcement context that I
went to Notre Dame.

(00:20):
My dad went to Notre Dame.
I grew up a fighting Irishfootball fan and I remember my
dad and I watched him footballgames and the Notre Dame players
would score a touchdown and LouHoltz was the coach then, like
that real old school and he waslike they do it the right way.
They don't spike the football,they hand the ball to the
referee like they should.
They're a class act and thatwas always what was important to
me to do the right thing inanything that I was in.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
Welcome to Courageous Leadership with Travis Yates,
where leaders find the insightsadvice and encouragement they
need to lead courageously.

Travis Yates (01:01):
Welcome back to the show.
I'm so honored that you decidedto spend a few minutes with us
here today and remember oursponsor.
We're grateful to them.
Safeguard Recruiting owned andoperated by law enforcement, and
they are the answer to yourrecruiting woes.
Just check them out and trustme, they are doing phenomenal
work.
I'm excited about today's guest.
Today we have on Steve Friend.
He's an FBI whistleblower,best-selling author of a book

(01:23):
called True Blue and he's theco-host of the Morning Post,
which can be seen each weekdaymorning on X.
There's much more to talk aboutwith Steve.
Steve, how are you doing, sir?
Thanks for being here.

Steve Friend (01:34):
Oh, thank you very much for having me.
Now, Steve, I know thatobviously it's high profile and
you're known as an FBIwhistleblower, but long before
that you weren't that and I'dlove for you to just take us

(01:55):
through your journey and how yougot into law enforcement and
then the years that you spentthere in law enforcement, what
you did and what you contributed.
Yeah, so I was sort of anatypical journey to.
It was not sort of in the plan.
I'm a plan guy, come from afamily that has a white collar
family my dad's in a CPA, I havean older sister who's an
attorney, younger sister is apharmacist, younger brother who
is an architect.
I was going to go intoaccounting to work with.
My dad, went to college forthat and got the degree and

(02:17):
along the lines.
Actually there was an FBIrecruiting effort.
That happened in my college.
I went to it just out ofinterest but didn't really spark
anything in me and I'd alwayshad a desire to do something in
the military, did ROTC, wasrecruited but couldn't pass the
physical.
I'm asthmatic, take medicationevery day for it, so it just
again wasn't in the cards.
So ultimately, when I tried myhand at accounting and went

(02:40):
through one tax season, Irealized that that was not a
good fit and I had a reallystark moment where I was on the
train from New Jersey into NewYork City and some NYPD transit
cops were on the train gettingready to go to work and I just
remember thinking they areprobably going to have a lot
more of an interesting day thanme, and it sort of struck me as

(03:01):
a way you could deploy just toyour community and a
paramilitary type of structure,a way to be a civic servant.
So I looked into my hometown,which is in Savannah, georgia,
and they had an opportunitythere.
They were hiring and they weregoing to pay for you to go
through an academy and then youwould just go straight to work.
So I went to work for theSavannah Police Department, was

(03:23):
a beat cop there in one of theworst areas that they had, at
the Central Precinct, where justcongested lots of crime, cut my
teeth there, got into somenarcotics work as well and wound
up spending five years as apatrol officer before ultimately
getting hired by the FBI in2014.

Travis Yates (03:41):
Well, that's a big jump, right.
I mean, I think most people inlocal law enforcement you're
approached with that at somepoint.
That was actually my intent Iwas going to when I go.
I wanted to work for the DEA.
Don't ask me why.
It was a kid's dream and theyall told me at 21, you better
get some local law enforcementexperience.
So I didn't care where I got it, I just applied everywhere and
the whole idea was to spendthree or four or five years
there and move to the DEA.

(04:02):
And one thing leads to another.
As the story goes, I met a girland I, you know I'd spent 30
years there, but so, but there'salways a decision to make,
because federal work's muchdifferent than local work.
How did that process work withyou when you made that decision?

Steve Friend (04:14):
That's funny that you say that you met the girl.
I met the girl as well.
I actually, the day I graduatedfrom the police Academy she was
a friend of one of myclassmates which introduced us
and that's my wife and she isfluent in multiple languages was
actually looking at employmentwith the FBI.
I didn't wind up pursuing thatherself, but then got in my ear
about.
You know, you should maybe lookinto doing that as a career

(04:45):
investigator, regardless of ifyou're an fbi agent, dea agent,
anything.
You need to get that experienceon the street first and foremost
.
That's really where you learnhow to interface with people,
because there's a commonmisconceptions that people have
about police work.
I mean, if you come from amilitary standpoint, a lot of
people think, well, you justfollow orders, you tell them
what to do, and no, it's a lotmore like salesmanship, yeah,
and you have to learn how tointeract with different sorts of
people and do some conflictresolution and really pay

(05:07):
attention to the details andappreciate the constitutional
limits to what you actually cando.
And there's no better way to dothat than interacting with the
public every single day in thatpatrol car.

Travis Yates (05:18):
Yeah, in a sense.
Those of you that may notrealize this, I know they watch
Hollywood and TV and they havethis sort of aura about federal
work, but local law enforcementis like dog years.
I mean one year in local lawenforcement in an agency like
you were, it was very busy.
It's probably equal to sevenyears of federal work or more.
Right, you get a lot ofexperience really quick, do you
not?

Steve Friend (05:38):
Absolutely.
I mean, I was just off of FTO Imean we're talking about within
the first week and there was agray gray in his hair, type of
officer who was former army, hadbeen a training soldier.
So I did a field interview of asubject and then he backed me
up.
He came up to me afterwards.
He goes all right, let's do anafter action review.
And he sort of talked to meabout mistakes I'd made, good

(06:00):
things I'd done.
And then I just remember beingin awe of this guy and thinking
like man, I I'd made good thingsI'd done.
And then I just remember beingin awe of this guy and thinking
like man, I can't wait till Ijust have that familiarization
with what I'm doing.
And he laughed and he said,yeah, you'll get the hang of it.
I've only been doing it foreight months, so you do it.
It is dog.
Years is probably the mostappropriate thing you can do.

Travis Yates (06:17):
Yeah, so you got in the FBI.
Obviously, you go to theAcademy in Quantico.
I've been to Quantico I theAcademy in Quantico.
I've been to Quantico.
I only spent 11 weeks there.
You spent a little longer thereand, man, you probably had a
bunch of dreams and aspirations.
You uprooted your family andyou followed the FBI and you
just did the typical work, right.
I mean, you did a lot ofhigh-end things at the FBI.
So kind of talk about how yourearly FBI career went.

Steve Friend (06:39):
Well, everybody has a different sort of journey
and they look at your background.
So I came in with a lawenforcement experience and they
take that into consideration andthey actually sent me to a
pretty remote location.
I was assigned to the Omahafield office.
But every field office the 56of them around the country have
little satellite offices, calledresident agencies, because you
can't respond everywhere from acentral hub.

(07:00):
So Omaha was my field office,my division, but I worked in
Sioux City, iowa, which was inNorthwest Iowa, about 100 miles
from Omaha, and I worked onIndian reservations, which is a
very small niche within the FBIbecause there's only about 150
agents that do it.

(07:24):
With what I like to do anyway, Iwas interested in getting into
the criminal side less than thenational security side, and the
violent crime to me wassomething that I had done my
entire law enforcement careerand it was actually a way to
impact small communities.
Because of the way that thejurisdiction works.
You have some underservedcommunities there that are very
vulnerable and there's no onecoming to their assistance.
So you have the opportunity toput bad people who do really bad
things away into federal prisonwhere they're not going to get

(07:46):
out for 85% of their time atleast, whereas if they were
getting arrested by a tribalpolice department, put in a
tribal jail, at most they wouldbe charged with a misdemeanor
regardless of the offense.
So that was great for me, anddid that for seven years until
we relocated to Daytona Beach,florida, in 2021 and took that

(08:07):
transfer to get a little closerto home Savannah, georgia, is
only about three hours away andthen also to work on another
issue that I think is probablythe most underserved violation
in law enforcement, and that'schild exploitation, child
pornography cases.
So took that transfer to workthere, but things took a turn
pretty quickly when I wasreassigned and told that that

(08:27):
was not a priority for the FBI,and then they put me on to
counterterrorism.

Travis Yates (08:32):
Well and you know I know we're going to talk about
FBI leadership at length herein a minute but that initial
decision to send you to thatlocation to work at the Native
American lands probably a prettygood decision, because people
may not know this, but that'sone of the few areas where the
FBI is pretty much the primarylaw enforcement agency for law
enforcement In mostjurisdictions they're going to

(08:53):
piggyback off local lawenforcement.
Take their cases, help locallaw enforcement with task forces
.
But from Oklahoma I can tellyou they have a whole lot more
FBI agents that had beeneducated, that had to be
educated in tribal lands andtribal security and tribal law
enforcement.
So you had the background to goin day one and start enforcing
laws and doing investigations inan area that, like you said, is

(09:14):
very much underserved.
So whoever made that decisionwas on the right track, and so
oftentimes we don't put theright people on the bus, so to
speak.
We use personalities, we usefriends, favors, whatever, and
we give assignments that way.
But somebody somewhere althoughyou probably didn't realize
that Sioux City, iowa, was aglorious place to be somebody
somewhere recognized that yourbackground meddled you well with

(09:34):
that kind of enforcement.
So that's really good.
So you initially transferredout.
Most federal folks will try todo that at some point in their
career.
Get closer to home.
You did that, daytona Beach,Florida.
You had to be feeling prettygood about yourself doing a job
that everyone would agree unlessyou're.
Evil needs to be done at ahigher level, which is human
trafficking, child exploitation,things like that.
You're excited about that.

(09:55):
Tell us about the term whenthat happened.

Steve Friend (09:58):
Well, it happened officially within three months,
because I arrived in thesummertime in 2021 and the
federal government has thefiscal year turnover on
September 30th and that's whenthey really start to assess
where they're putting manpower.
So 2021, we're in the fall.
So about nine months afterJanuary 6th happens.
And that's when the FBI wentinto full on obsession mode with

(10:21):
that incident and just threw anuntold number of resources at
it.
So they determined that childpornography was not a priority
and they needed to assign me tothe Joint Terrorism Task Force.
And I'd never worked onnational security but I was kind
of a go-along guy.
He asked me to jump, I say howhigh as far as what I can do to
best serve the office.
But then when I was working onthe JTTF, pretty quickly it was

(10:46):
apparent that we didn't have anywork to do.
I mean, all the cases thatrelated to January 6th or
anything else were either nocriminal violations they were
going nowhere or for J6, theywere being officially
investigated by us, but notreally.
They were being worked fromWashington DC.
We were just kind of goingalong with what we were told to
do.
So I went in my privatecapacity, I went to my boss and

(11:08):
just said look, there's nothingto do.
Can I continue to work childpornography and then make myself
available?
And the boss said that was fine.
So really, for a better part ofa year I worked again with
locals.
That was everything.
To me was, how can I get to, yes, for the local agencies and
assist them?
One of the sheriff's officesthat I worked with in the county
they only had one deputyassigned to work child

(11:30):
pornography.
He went out on medical leavefor a year.
He had a heart surgery.
So I basically took that officeover myself, was content doing
that sort of on the sly.
Because of my timesheet, I hadto say I was working domestic
terrorism.
Because of my timesheet, I hadto say I was working domestic
terrorism.
And then, finally, things cameto a head for me when, in the
summer of 2022, so August, about14 months after arriving, about

(11:54):
11 months after beingreassigned officially then the
orders came down to go andarrest a January 6th subject and
I had a couple of concernsabout that that I made my
protected whistleblowerdisclosures about, and one being
that they were going to sendSWAT to arrest this guy.
He had been interviewed a yearand a half prior, said I'll

(12:14):
cooperate with law enforcement.
Whatever you need from me, I'lldo.
And then we didn't interactwith him for 18 months and
executive management in mydivision in Jacksonville said
SWAT team's appropriate, we'regoing to send SWAT to go get him
.
And I was a SWAT guy I did SWATfor five years and I thought
that that was a misallocation ofthat tool that presented an
unnecessary risk to him and toour personnel as well.

(12:37):
And then, secondly, the way thatthe January 6th cases were
being managed were there's adeparture from the way FBI cases
are supposed to be handled.
And they're doing it becausethey want to create this false
impression that there's domesticterrorism around the country,
when really most of those casesare criminal violations and
should be assigned to WashingtonDC.
But they're not doing thatbecause it gives them the

(12:58):
opportunity to boost theterrorism numbers and enhance
the bureaucracy, go back toCongress and ask for more money
and then actually seniorexecutives around the FBI are
getting sizable bonuses becauseof it.

Travis Yates (13:11):
Yeah, and just to take our audience back, and it
was so strange, being in lawenforcement, to hear the head of
the FBI multiple times say ourbiggest threat was domestic
terrorism, and he would talkabout KKK, and they would.
They would show these symbols,like the thin blue line symbol
and the Betsy Ross flag and beon the lookout.
It is, it was so surreal towatch that.

(13:33):
I mean, of course, this sameidiot just wasn't sure if Trump
got shot or not.
Right, I mean, just kind ofpeople were talking about I mean
, it's just my lying eyes, Iguess, are deceiving me.
And so you're rightHyperpolitical, a narrative that
had been promoted long beforethey knew any evidence.
And you know, as of this day,there's been over 50 country,

(13:55):
whether it's courthouses orlocal riots and whether it's
Black Lives Matter.
I mean, over a billion dollarsof damage was done in 2020 and
beyond with this type ofactivity and the FBI didn't seem

(14:16):
to have that much interest inthat.
Right, and I'm sure yourecognize that and the vast
majority, while we were told itwas an insurrection, they
haven't charged anybody withinsurrection and you're going to
know this better than me, steve, but the vast majority of these
arrests were trespassing,property destruction,

(14:36):
misdemeanor crimes in localcommunities, and so I'll just
sort of you probably knew thislong before you were told to be
put on this task force, and thenit became very apparent, did it
not?

Steve Friend (14:47):
Yes, I mean, it was a significant story in the
news and if you're just aconsumer of current events, then
how could you not pick up onthat?
And then, being on the insideof the FBI, I tend to look for
national security cases orcriminal cases, things that
those are typically what I'd befollowing.
And when what I was seeing onthe news being reported was not
jiving with what I was consuminginside the four walls of the

(15:09):
office, that disconnect therewas a concern to me.
And then the other thing is theculture of terrorism
investigations.
The way that the FBI is sort ofvery okay with entrapping
people was disturbing and I'velearned a lot more about that
since.
And then to me, the ultimatecultural problem that now exists

(15:29):
, being somebody who appreciateslaw enforcement, and actually
was a significant moment to meto swear an oath to become an
FBI agent.
I remember the room, I rememberbeing able to feel lucky and
fortunate enough to saysomething like that that people
who I revere said before me, andfeeling that responsibility.
But law enforcement's a process,right, the victory for us is

(15:53):
the process.
If we follow the process, we'rerules guys.
We're not system disruptors,we're system idealists.
We follow the law, we followthe constitution.
We follow the procedures.
We gather the facts, we presentthem at court.
We follow the law.
We follow the constitution.
We follow the procedures.
We gather the facts, we presentthem at court and then the jury
has their say.
We don't take a win and losslike it's a baseball card stat

(16:13):
on the back of our picture right, as long as we follow the
process.
If the facts of the case do notsupport a conviction, then the
facts didn't mean that we're nota good police officer or FBI
agent or a prosecutor.
But that's not what's going onnow.
They're doing what they can toget the win.
They're leaning not their thumbbut their entire arm on the
scale.
And when I presented this to mysenior executives, they were

(16:35):
dumbfounded.
They said well, we're winning.
So obviously that means thatwhat we're doing is right in
getting the win.
I was just telling them youhave to be buttoned up when you
go to court.
That's the victory to me.
I've been to trial eight timesas an FBI agent, which is eight
more times than most FBI agentsever have, and when I go, I
don't care what any other caseof the other 1,499 cases that

(16:58):
have gone to court.
What they've gotten away withthere.
They're violating people'srights and they're not following
the due process that theconstitution is supposed to
guarantee.
If it has my name on it, I wantto ensure that it has that, and
you've put me in a position nowwhere it doesn't have that, and
I'm not comfortable with that.
So those were the concerns thatI had, and the response that I
got from then was Steve, youhave the ability to raise your

(17:21):
concerns with that because youget training on how to do that
and you're following that.
That's fine.

Travis Yates (17:26):
You have an oath of office to the constitution,
but your duty is to the fbi andyou should set an example for
your children and just followorders yeah, that was a warning
across the bow and I want toback you up a little bit,
because this had to have been apretty traumatic event for you.
You have this idealistic viewof the FBI.
I contributed to a lot of locallaw enforcement.

(17:48):
I hear similar stories not ascrazy as the one you're about to
hear where they thought theiragency was one way and then they
eventually find out oh, it'snot this way.
It had to be pretty traumaticfor you because you'd been
several years in the FBI, You'ddone a lot of high-level things,
very successful, and thenyou're confronted with this, Did
you?
I'm interested I'm alwaysinterested because you made a

(18:09):
decision.
I always talk about going rightor left Right, Like you could
have just kept your head downand kept allegiance to the FBI,
no matter what.
In fact, the vast majority ofFBI agents are doing that at
this very moment.
There's only a few of you thatstepped out of line, and we'll
talk about what happened to thatin a minute.
What do you think about youcaused you to do the right thing

(18:34):
?
Because so many people todayare what way we describe it are
just cowards.
If they are going to riskanything about me myself and I
risk a status.
They are just going to puttheir head down and continue
down that long path.
What do you think it was aboutyou that made their decision to
go?
This is what's right.
Damn, for, whatever may happen,I'm going to do it anyway.

(18:54):
What just kind of talk aboutyour personality, what you think
caused that?
Because that is a unicorn,Steve, whether you know it or
not, most people, as you know,will not do that, and that is
the part that is the big problemin our country and in
leadership today.

Steve Friend (19:09):
It's hard to say, I don't know.
It's almost a nature versusnurture.
I know from a very young age Iwas always like this, this
really uptight or upright person, that doing the right thing was
always the most important thingto me.
I know that was instilled to meby my parents as well.
I just to even take it out ofthe law enforcement context I

(19:31):
went to Notre Dame.
My dad went to Notre Dame.
I grew up a fighting Irishfootball fan and I remember my
dad and I watched him footballgames and the Notre Dame players
would score a touchdown and LouHoltz was the coach then, like
that real old school and he waslike they do it the right way,
they don't spike the football,they hand the ball, the referee
like they should their class act.
And that was always what wasimportant to me to do the right
thing in anything that I was in.

(19:52):
Cheating to me it was a boringline, to me, just uh.
It was not something that I wasever uh would want to live with
myself knowing and and to eventake it to my experience in the
FBI.
But they talked about beingable to swear that oath and look
yourself in the mirror and knowthat you did that, I wouldn't
be able to live with myselfknowing that when it really came

(20:13):
time for a pressure test, thatI bent the knee on that and it
was choosing the difficult rightover the easy.
Wrong was never a considerationto me, and I think that that is
a quality that you have to haveif you're going to be effective
in law enforcement, becausethere are temptations there,
there are corners that you cancut, but ultimately it's

(20:35):
realizing and accepting the factthat your job is not supposed
to be made easy and you have torealize who your customers are
and the people that you're thereto serve.
I mean, I was small Even nowI'm not a large guy, but I was
small in school, got good grades, so I was ripe for getting
bullied.
And that was one of the thingsthat I can't stand is our

(20:57):
bullies because they don't dothe right thing at the right
time, in the right way for theright reasons.
They just go after and targetand prey on weaker people, and I
thought that that was a waythat I could stay in the gap for
those people that didn't havethe support that they needed,
and if my agency becomes thebully, then it's my job to stand

(21:18):
in that gap and you know a viewof my career with the FBI.
I didn't have a guarantee of apension.
I never for once assumed that.
I mean I planned for it.
I was.
I'd love to have it, but whenmy retirement inevitably came
after 20 years of service, Iwasn't going to have a big
ceremony where they gave me aflag or a send-off party.
I was just not going to comeback the next day and sort of

(21:39):
viewed my experience there likegoing to an amusement park you
enjoy the ride, you pick up alittle bit of trash on your way
out and then you move on in yourlife.
But that mindset is somethingthat I aspire to be amongst
people that shared with me.
But unfortunately, the lessonthat I learned was that I was
really the black sheep in that Imust have actually fallen
through the cracks of thevetting process because they're

(22:01):
more interested in policing,like Police Battalion 101, the
German Reserve Battalion, wherethey just followed orders and
tried to use that defense whenthey committed atrocities.

Travis Yates (22:12):
It's so interesting.
If you talk about thebackground of your family, how
you were raised, that is prettymuch the most common answer I've
ever gotten when I've talked toindividuals like yourself.
And I know we're talking aboutthe FBI today, but what you just
said can be replaced with manylocal law enforcement.
It's very, very similar andit's just incredible.
So I want to, before we getinto what happened, because you

(22:36):
probably were surprised whathappened, because you were doing
the right thing and that waswhat you know and it wasn't
until the reaction came that youfigured oh, I'm outside here.
Like you said, you fell throughthe cracks.
You're not one of them.
You thought you were family,but you aren't really family.
They had already divorced you,you just didn't know it.
But long before all of thesecharges started happening and

(22:58):
the FBI put all these resourcestowards Jan 6th, it was so
strange and it's so strange tothe point where people still
believe this.
I mean, I seem to be one of theonly persons that was outraged
by what they did to OfficerBrian Sicknick.
I thought it was so outrageous.
The politicians were using anatural death.
The guy died days after January6th and the media was using

(23:22):
that with the same.
You still hear politicianstoday say multiple police
officers died on January 6th.
None of that is true.
Ashley Babik was the only one.
And that's a whole other crazystory where they gave awards and
medals to a guy that the MetroPolice who were out there
couldn't even believe whathappened.
And we read the internalreports to the Metro Police they

(23:44):
were like we have no idea whythis happened, right, and you
would look at.
I mean, it's just insane.
But Brian Sicknick the newsoutlets said he was killed by a
fire extinguisher.
Then when that was exposed theysaid well, it was bear spray.
Then when it was exposed, thebear spray actually doesn't kill
you.
They just kept on and on andthey knew that.
And what was so appalling to meis they knew they were lying.

(24:06):
You'd have to be a completeidiot to not know this was a lie
.
So they knew they were lying.
They did it for a political,for obviously to push political
agenda.
Those initial lies led into whatI believe with the FBI.
They had to continue the lies,right.
So we can't just back out ofthis.
We've told America this is theworst thing since the Civil War
and so they're now chargingAmerican citizens that in a

(24:29):
local community would havegotten a citation for property
obstruction or obstruction ortrespassing.
They're now charging them,putting them in federal prisons
and I'm not making excuses forthe people that did violent acts
that need to go to jail.
Nobody is but to sit here andto look at grandmas and grandpas
.
And because I tell you, rightnow, steve and I have a friend
that was there.

(24:49):
He's a law enforcement officer.
He was there and he was walkingaway from and I've heard people
say this, but this came out ofhis mouth, I know the FBI tried
to interview him because hebought a plane ticket that same
time.
And here's what he did he waswalking away from the rally and
he saw the doors open at theCapitol and he said there were
police officers there usheringpeople in.

(25:10):
He thought it was literally,thought it was a tour.
He thought because people werewalking in, he wasn't on the
side where we see all, becausethe camera angles are just on
one side, but the other sides ofthe building looked relatively
calm and peaceful at this moment.
He said, said he literallythought to himself oh, they're
giving us tours of the Capitol.
But then he thought you know,there's just a lot of people
here.
I'm just going to keep going tomy hotel, but he would have

(25:35):
literally walked through thedoors thinking it was a tour and
he'd be in prison today andwould have lost his job based on
what the FBI did to these folks.
So it is amazing to me and ofjust that whole initial
narrative.
Do you really put a lot ofblame into that initial
narrative, people that pushed iton why this has continued on?

Steve Friend (25:50):
The collateral damage to this is unfathomable
to most people who are not in it, who have not seen what those
cases are doing.
It's even outside of regularinvestigations of potential
people who broke the law.
I mean, I was sent to interviewa gentleman because we got an
anonymous tip that he might havebeen there and if you're
working in law enforcement youcan't act on that.

(26:11):
There's no reporting party Ican talk to.
He might confess to a crime butI have no proof of it, no
physical proof, and I go knockon his door and was told to.
When I pushed back and saidthat's not appropriate, they
said you still have to go and hetold me that no, I wasn't there
because my son died and I wasat his funeral that day and I
made him relive that experience.
And that's just one.
I mean another woman who wasthere, who never went into the

(26:34):
Capitol, was actually recording.
She was aspiring to become apolice officer and she thought
she was witnessing crime.
So she recorded it to give tolaw enforcement and when she did
, the folks in the FBI said well, she was there, so let's try to
investigate her and when wedidn't see any violations of
criminal law, call up theagencies that she's applying to

(26:55):
and spike her from gettingemployment as a police officer.
These are the sorts of grossabuses of power that we've seen
and to January 6th at large.
I mean, I sort of take a generalstep back from it and say, look
, here's my breakdown of thepeople who were there.
You had people who broke thelaw not that many, but there
were people that engaged inillegal activity that should be

(27:15):
prosecuted.
But you also had professionalprovocateurs who were there, who
are on video putting ondifferent clothing to try to egg
people into fights and get themto do things they're not really
supposed to do.
To try to egg people intofights and get them to do things
they're not really supposed todo.
You had paid informants whowere there because the FBI
canvassed nationwide all of usdo.

(27:37):
You have informants who aregoing to January 6th and
informants are only paid whenthey're productive.
So they were there andincentivized to gin things up.
You had undercovers there, somein a security capacity, some
maybe in other capacities.
You had the other group of guysthat were there who saw 2020,
the civil unrest that was aroundthe country and were
anticipating some level ofviolence from Antifa or BLM
being there.

(27:57):
So they showed up equipped andready to get into a fight and
basically to give those peoplethe beating their daddy never
gave them right and that's nevera good intent.
But you can understand whyyou'd wear like a helmet.
If you're thinking you're gonnaget popped in the head, okay,
they've been actually putthrough the ringer more than any
, because they've been.
The perception of them becauseof the FBI's messaging is that

(28:18):
they're some sort of militiahellbent on overthrowing the
United States government,without a weapon, mind you.
And then the largestcontingency of people who were
there went to President Trump'sspeech.
They were there and theyactually made the mistake of
believing that they had a firstamendment inside of Washington
DC, which now, in the allegedland of the free, has gone
bye-bye.
So they thought we can free.

(28:39):
We have freedom of speech, wehave freedom of assembly, we
have freedom to petition ourgovernment for redress of
grievances.
And they thought let's walkthrough the Capitol as a show of
solidarity and the mass ofpeople It'll be like the miracle
on 34th Street where they showall the letters to Santa Claus
and that will motivate ourrepresentatives to pause the

(29:00):
election certification and dothe audit, which is all they
really were asking for at thattime and those people, the ones
that just walked through theCapitol, which is theoretically
the people's house.
They've been caught up in thedrag net because the FBI is very
happy to manipulate the law andthe rules on the ground because
it's been enriching to them asan agency.
They've gotten huge amounts ofenhancements to budget.

(29:23):
You've gotten people who havepersonally profited.
They're getting $30,000 to$50,000 bonuses every year
because their quotas that theyhave, because the FBI has a
quota system, those quotas arebeing met.
There are people who areadvancing in their career
because they message it as thisis worse than 9-11.
I had a role of management onthe January 6th case so I'm

(29:43):
going to advance my career on it.
Everyone is personally orbureaucratically profiting off
the backs of the American peoplewho they're theoretically
duty-bound to serve and are nolonger the customer.
They're just viewed as anopportunity, rather than the
people who are actually payingthe bill, paying the freight on

(30:04):
this agency.

Travis Yates (30:05):
It is so insane to think that the American people
by and large don't know any ofthis.
I know it's not by lack ofeffort on yours and others' part
, steve, but I mean you talkabout the FBI having cash bonus
quotas.
If a local police departmenthad the audacity to literally
have a ticket quota hey, writethree tickets a day the FBI and
DOJ would be coming into towntalking to these agencies.

(30:29):
So it's really, it's reallycrazy to see the double
standards here, and so I respectyou so much for what you've
done here, because most of thiswould not even be known if you
wouldn't be talking about this.
But obviously you, this thiscame to a head, and talk to us
about how this came to a headand what they then did to you,
which, by the way, that's whatcowards do.

(30:50):
It's, a big sign of a coward is, when you're confronted with
right or wrong and you're in thewrong, you're going to go after
the person confronting you.
We have whole political partiesto do it today, right, where
they literally blame somebodyelse for doing something they're
exactly doing, and so, withoutyou even answering I, they tried
to.
They tried to accuse you ofmany of the things they were
doing, whether it's corruptionor lying or theft or whatever it

(31:12):
is, because that's what cowardsdo.
So let's just hear how thiscame to a head and then what
happened to you.

Steve Friend (31:18):
I made my first disclosure to my immediate
supervisor on August 12th.
I came to realize probably ayear or so after that that that
that day the FBI opened aninvestigation on me.
So my boss like a good.
German uh had then subsequentmeetings with executives where
they uh said to I need to follow, just follow orders.

(31:40):
Uh had a meeting with the topof the food chain in
Jacksonville, the special agentin charge.
She said I was a conspiracytheorist and I needed to do soul
searching to decide if I wantedto be one of them anymore.
I got, I was told you were notallowed to go to this arrest of
this January 6th subject.
They said you're, you're infact you're not allowed and you

(32:02):
have to stay home and you haveto report yourself absent
without leave.
So I did that and that's one ofthe violations that they used
to suspend my security clearance.
So the FBI has the hack aroundwhistleblower protection,
because the law says they can'tretaliate against you for
protective whistleblowingactivity.
But if you have a securityclearance to work for a federal

(32:24):
law enforcement agency Navyversus Egan Supreme Court
precedent says that they havewide latitude to suspend your
clearance for anything they seefit.
And when your securityclearance gets suspended, you
are suspended, unpaid,indefinitely, but still an
employee, and that really is theway they try to bleed you white
.
So they suspended my clearance,they said for being AWOL, which

(32:45):
I did at their own direction,and also because they said that
I looked at the employeehandbook improperly uh, put me
out in September, september 19th, so, uh, about five weeks after
making my disclosure, and thenthat's when the process really
started to heat up.
Uh, so I was unpaid,indefinitely suspended.

(33:05):
My wife loses her job within acouple of weeks.
Under some very suspiciouscircumstances, her Facebook
account was taken down.
She sent a private message to awoman, said that she was my
wife I'm Steve Friend, thewhistleblower's wife and her
account from Facebook waspermanently deleted.
Within 30 minutes we had aletter that came from the FBI's

(33:27):
internal affairs we call it theinspection division and they
said there was a gag order on me.
I wasn't allowed to discuss thedetails of my situation with my
friends or my family or my wifeor my attorney.
I brought that to my attorneyand he took that to the
inspector general.
The inspector general's officesaid that that's normal for them
to do that, but I didn't haveto obey it.

(33:48):
But that's just another attempt.
We had a hurricane hit.
Hurricane Ian hit us here inFlorida, so I was offline.
The FBI at that time chose thatmoment to go to the New York
Times and leak to them that Iwas unvaccinated against
coronavirus and that I was underinvestigation, according to
them, for shooting a firearmimproperly in my backyard.
I had to participate in asecurity division interview

(34:12):
where they tried to get me intothe Mike Flynn trap where you
would lie to a special agent orto a federal investigator and
they could charge me with acrime.
But I've done hundreds ofinterviews and interrogations so
I was able to evade that one.
Then I asked for multiple timesto get my training documents,
because I had actually an offerto go to work for the sheriff's

(34:33):
office that I helped fill inwith, and the FBI refused to
furnish me my training documents.
And when they did, they toldthe state of Florida that they
couldn't confirm that they wereauthentic.
They could be forged, so Icouldn't go to work in that way.
I put in multiple requests foroutside employment as well to
ask for the opportunity to justhave a job.
I was unpaid indefinitely, mywife had lost her job and the

(34:56):
FBI denied those requests.
I sat down and a publishing armcame to me and said we'd like
you to write a book.
We want to give you an advance.
And I said I'm not taking anadvance, I'm not taking any
money, I just want to write thebook.
If you publish it, okay.
I wrote the book.
No classified information inthere.
I sent it over to the FBI as acourtesy and they said that I

(35:17):
needed to censor significantportions of it and I didn't obey
that directive from them.
So everything actually is inthe book that I wrote and then
have it on good faith frompeople on the inside that I'm
the subject of multiple criminalinvestigations, maybe
potentially terrorisminvestigations.
I have caught surveillance onme when I fly.
And then ultimately I went toCongress, testified behind

(35:42):
closed doors, but ultimately didit publicly in May of 2023,
doors, but ultimately did itpublicly in May of 2023, the
night before the FBI permanentlyrevoked my clearance and then
leaked that to the media todiscredit me and then basically
forbid me from ever going backinto civil service again.

Travis Yates (36:00):
Yeah, I'm just going to let all this set for a
minute, because that is one ofthe most incredible stories I've
ever heard.
It should spook and scare everyAmerican of what is going on.
Steve, you wrote a book calledTrue Blue my Journey from Beat
Cop to Suspended FBIWhistleblower.
Everybody listening to thisneeds to go buy that book
immediately.

(36:20):
We need to support this man inevery way that we can, and
there's so much to talk aboutafter you told that story,
because I have to imagine therewere some dark days.
Right, and let's just be honestabout it.
I've talked to many, many peoplethat have been victims of
cowards.
This is cowards and evil.
This is the next step, nextlevel.

(36:41):
This is just an evil, evilthings that occurred to you.
You have to be evil in yourheart to do this to another
human being and the sad part isnot just one person could have
done this.
This is a group of people, thisis a unit of people.
This is a chain of command ofpeople, because nobody is
standing up to stop this and andcomplacency is intent.

(37:03):
And talk about the dark days.
I mean because your wife's losther job.
You're going through this.
They're trying to not just getyou out of the FBI and quiet you
.
They want to destroy you.
That's, that's kind of the nextlevel.
We have many examples of thatin the past.
Uh, these, these weak cowards,evil want to just destroy you.
It's not good enough that theygot you away from here or you're

(37:26):
not longer on the department.
They want to make sure thatyou're destroyed.
So talk about there's no amountof preparation for that.
Talk about the thought processand what went on in those early
days.

Steve Friend (37:38):
Well, I mean, I'm still in the process right now.
I mean I'm over two years nowunemployed, unemployable.
So we're dealing with it everyday that we can here.
But you know, that initialshock, it happens so fast and
that's part of the process aswell.
Right, I mean there's not along runway.
Even when I had my initialmeeting with senior executives,

(38:00):
I said to them look, if you'regoing to fire me, don't make me
drive up to Jacksonville to getfired, just call me on the phone
, I'll turn in my stuff.
And they laughed and said look,this is a federal government.
It's like turning a battleship.
Things are going to take areally long time.
Any sort of processes, don'tworry about it.
And then they told me to reportmyself AWOL within two hours.
So the process sort of shocksyou, even though you know it's

(38:21):
coming.
But I'd also already made mypeace with the fact that I might
not be with the agency for afull career the year prior,
because that's when thecoronavirus vaccine mandate came
down and we as a family thoughtabout it, prayed about it, and
we weren't going to do that.
So there was a purge afoot andwe'd taken some financial

(38:41):
measures to give ourselves alittle bit of latitude there, so
that was a good thing.
And then also, having thesupport, my wife was initially
shocked and, I think, veryscared.
She put on a brave face, to hercredit.
But then my name, when it hitthe media, was leaked out.
Somebody was able probablyperson should be hired by the

(39:04):
FBI tracked me down, came to mydoor which could be really
dangerous, but he actually woundup being a friendly and was
tearing up crying.
He was a Marine retired andjust said, wanted to thank me
for what I did and that was.
She was there when thathappened.
I think that that brought heron, uh, on board with what I was
doing and and just sort ofsetting an example for um, for

(39:29):
our kids.
And then also I have had theopportunity to develop
friendships with some otherwhistleblowers, as there's not
many of us as a couple, andthey're the best friends that
I've ever had in my life becausewe have that shared value
system, uh, and, and that Ithink ultimately is we
appreciated the job and that'sreally the morning process.
I'm still in the middle of that.

(39:50):
I mean, I was one of the fewpeople I think lucky enough to
have had a job that I was bornto do that I love to do and I
was just in the flow.
Every day was great.
I looked forward to Monday.
I never dreaded going to work,but I also appreciated the
magnitude of the power that isbequeathed to you with that,
that you have the ability totake someone's freedom away from

(40:12):
them, and that should never besomething that is weaponized or
abused or used to personallyenrich yourself.
And, unfortunately, seeing thepeople along the way interact
with me they did in the FBI,from an executive standpoint,
and even from people from therank and file who are not
willing to go along with thatthat cuts you deep.
It really does.
I mean I lost relationshipswith people who I thought were

(40:34):
my friends, including people whowere members of the wedding
party at my wedding, who havenever talked to me again because
of it.
But we separate the wheat fromthe chaff and the new friends
that I do have are some of thebest we've had and obviously
getting to interact with peoplenow in the last couple of years
and just regular folks, gettingspeaking opportunities or

(40:56):
something like that, is prettyunique and getting to meet a lot
of people who you see on TV orin the news or something like
that and you're just like.
This is like living in a movieto a certain extent, but it's
very stressful.
It really is.
I mean, I'm in it every day.

Travis Yates (41:11):
Yeah, and, steve, I'm glad you mentioned the wheat
from the chaff because I thinkpeople need to be aware that
this happens, because it willshock you if you don't know If
anybody listening to this, ifyou have this running with a
coward, or you or they use someof these tools against you.
The way Steve talks about, theway I'm familiar with who you
thought.
Your friends will disappear,like, literally, like people I'm

(41:33):
talking people you've known for30, 40 years will not only
disappear, but they'll.
They'll talk about you and youknow for a fact.
They know that none of it istrue, but they're in
self-preservation mode becausethey're a coward as well.
You just didn't realize it.
So but what you do realize outof that, what you describe,
steve, is you actually.
It's actually a good thing,because you actually know who

(41:53):
your friends are.
You actually know your wifeactually loves you.
You actually know that yourkids actually respect you.
You have a very clear picture ofreality, because most people
out there don't have reality.
They think they have friends,they think they have associates,
they think the department lovesyou.
They think that none of that istrue.
None of that is accurate.
At the end of the day, thereare many more cowards than those

(42:16):
with courage.
And the cowards will exposethemselves eventually, and you
got to see it at a relativelyyoung age and so you got a very
clear picture.
That doesn't make it easy,doesn't make it simple, but, man
, there's some value in that.
There's some value when Godtalks about that.
Everything happens for a reason, right, and I think the
difficult part that I know I'vehad in the past was man.

(42:37):
I really want to know why thishappened and he doesn't give you
a time frame right.
Eventually it will revealitself and I've seen that in my
life when there's beendisappointments or I've dealt
with cowards and I'm like why isit?
Why am I going through this?
Nothing to your level, steve.
Have you seen God answer thatcall for you?
Have you seen the?

Steve Friend (42:55):
maybe it's not completely answered, but have
you had a moment where youthought okay, this is why that
happened, because I meant, or mypurpose is for this or that.
Yeah, I think that I've seenother people go through the same
ordeal as me the small cadreand knowing that, the enrichment

(43:16):
that that brings to me, andyou're sort of on an island when
this is going on.
I mean, my wife is verysupportive, my family is very
supportive, but still, like inyour private moments, you have
that internal monologue and youthink like, am I right?
It's really hard not to questionyourself and uh and I think
that there were things that wereprovidential, that happened to

(43:37):
me along the way, that I cannotdeny for one moment that this
was supposed to happen.
I mean things that wereastronomical, the odds of
happening, uh, where you know, I, uh, I, I came to my boss on a
Friday and he said you need tothink about this over the
weekend because your career isat risk.
And then the things that I didover that weekend uh, where I,

(43:59):
um, I sent an email to anationally broadcast radio show
and just on a whim I thoughtlike, well, maybe that'll help
me in some way.
And then I listened to thepodcast of that radio show.
I was summoned to go meet withthe senior executives, so the

(44:19):
broadcast was on Monday night.
I missed it.
I was listening to the podcaston Tuesday while I'm driving up
an hour and a half drive, andthat host read that email aloud
on national radio and thenreached out to me and I was just
thinking like that shot in thearm that I needed before going
in.
There was everything.
So I know I was on the rightcourse, but again, it hasn't

(44:41):
been revealed to me.
And you make a really goodpoint, I mean.

Travis Yates (44:53):
God works in His time, not ours.
Well, I want to ask you onefinal question, steve, and I'm
not sure if there's an answer,but can the FBI be fixed?
I mean, obviously it is corruptat its root at the moment and
I'm sad for for that, becausethat is not the way it was
historically and and it's justso amazing to me.
Of course, we haven't even gotinto the lawfare and everything,
because I want I want people toknow how important this is.

(45:15):
This isn't about a politicalcandidate or an fbi agent.
How scared should a typicalcitizen be that this is what's
going on?
I mean, because they can pointtheir sights at anybody,
including me or anybody else,and destroy them, could they not
?

Steve Friend (45:34):
Yes, I mean, look, I explain my own trials and
tribulations.
They're willing to do that fromsomebody who's on the inside.
What are they willing to do tosomeone who's not?
And they have developed andcultivated a system to go after
anyone that they want, wheneverthey want.
I mean, they have the PatriotAct gave them the ability to
have an assessment, which is aninvestigation of an American
citizen without probable cause.

(45:55):
They just need an articulablepurpose so they can look at you
for whatever.
And they've labeled largeswaths of people with overly
broad things, because nowthey're looking at threats,
they're not looking at crimes.
And the most recent one that Icaution you and all your
audience about, the FBI hasdefined it's called an
anti-government, anti-authority,violent extremist agave.

(46:17):
And the FBI defines that inpublicly available information
on Google Agave is someone withthe perception of government
overreach or negligence.
That's a domestic terroristfrom the FBI standpoint.
I mean there's 56 men whosigned a document called the
Declaration of Independence.
I was just about to say that,yeah, Now I mean as far as
reforming the agency, it needsto be shattered and scattered to

(46:39):
the wind, but I don't thinkthat we have enough
representatives in governmentwith the testicular fortitude to
make that happen.
But there are massive reformsthat you could do that would
make it better.
And even if you still think theFBI is an objective force for
good I don't know where you comewith that conclusion, but I'll
even give you that benefit ofthe doubt the reforms that I
would propose I think would makean FBI that was good even

(47:00):
better.
So I would do a couple things.
Coming out of the academy, newagents need to be working in a
criminal investigative divisionof a local police department.
They need to be there as aforce multiplier for sheriff's
offices, police departments andlearning how to do
investigations on bike thefts,not being immediately put on
major, complex investigations.

(47:22):
Secondly, I think that thenational security apparatus that
has been built up is completelyout of control.
The mission creep that's set inis driving the entire agency
forward and that needs to berebooted entirely.
We need to do away with thingslike assessments and these
wireless Section 702 FISAsearches on American citizens,

(47:43):
which do happen, and I think thebest way you could do.
That would be leadership comesin and says every executive in
the FBI, over all the fieldoffices, needs to bring every
single counterterrorism caseforward to us.
We will look at them, and ifany of them are for First
Amendment, protected activityand any of these entrapment

(48:12):
schemes that the FBI loves torun, then everyone associated
with that will lose theirclearance permanently revoked.
You're fired, you're gone, andthen I think that the most
significant change if we coulddo nothing else but this would
be, to me disarm the FBI.
To me, disarm the FBI.
Take away the guns.
Make it an unarmedinvestigative operation, like it
originally was.
Make it a Bureau ofInvestigation.
No ability to enforce, and whenyou partner that with getting

(48:34):
rid of the quota system in orderto affect an arrest, they can
investigate anyone they want.
They can't do anything with it.
So what they can do, though, isgo to local law enforcement,
empower the chief magistratethere, the police chief, the
sheriff, the state, the tribal,whoever it is, and say we are
here to help you addressing thecrimes that are really

(48:55):
afflicting your area, becauseyou were incentivized as the, as
the sheriff, to bring crimedown, whereas with us, right now
in the FBI, we're incentivizedto bring it up, the quota system
.
We want to bring crime down,whereas with us right now in the
FBI we're incentivized to bringit up, the quota system.
We want to bring it up so weget more funding.
Let's assist the guys wherethey know where the usual
suspects are, where they knowthe crimes that need to be
addressed and they can say look,fbi, you might investigate

(49:16):
Travis there as an agave, but mydeputies aren't going to affect
that arrest, so I guess youwasted a lot of your time.
You know what we could doinstead.
Let's look at this drug problemthat I have on that corner
house.
Let's get an investigationrolling on that.
I think empowering local lawenforcement because we have
great cops in this countryalready and giving them

(49:37):
additional resources andmanpower and subject matter
expertise will only make thembetter.

Travis Yates (49:43):
Manpower and subject matter expertise will
only make them better.
Steve Fran, man, I respect youso much.
This has been a very powerfulinterview.
Everybody listening to thisneeds to go get your book True
Blue my Journey from Beat Cop toSuspended FBI Whistleblower.
Where can they reach you and wewant you to let us know where
can we support you at?
So give us all that information.

Steve Friend (50:03):
Well, thank you, let us know where can we support
you at.
So give us all that information.
Well, thank you.
Yeah, I, um, I have trying toplan fantasy camp here with uh,
with producing content.
So, uh, social media for me x,formerly twitter at real steve.
Friend is, uh is my handle.
My messages are always open.
People can reach out to methere.
I do a show called the morningpost there, eight o'clock every
morning, uh, across all timezones, so wherever, wherever you

(50:24):
are 8 o'clock every morning,across all time zones, so
wherever you are 8 o'clock,it'll be on there and you can
see it from my profile.
I also have the AmericanRadicals podcast, which is on
Rumble and streams also oniTunes and Spotify the audio
format.
I do that with another FBIwhistleblower, gerda Boyle, and
we put that out three times aweek on Tuesday, thursday and
Saturday.
And then I also have a TV showat Patriot TV, patriottv, and

(50:47):
that show is also called TrueBlue, so it syncs up really well
with the book.
The book's available for saleon Amazon True Blue my Journey
from Beat Cop to Suspended FBIWhistleblower.
Any way that folks can reachout to even just share a kind
word is really appreciated.

Travis Yates (51:03):
Steve Fram, thank you so much for being on and if
you've been listening, pleasesupport Steve, check out what he
has going on and just rememberlead on and stay courageous.

Speaker 2 (51:15):
Thank you for listening to Courageous
Leadership with Travis Yates.
We invite you to join othercourageous leaders at www.
travisyates.
org.