March 13, 2025 • 31 mins
Documenting your experiences can help you process life and leave a lasting legacy for future generations. In this episode of Courageous Retirement, you will learn how to take your personal stories to the next level so you can leave a profound impact by writing them.
Host Vona Johnson welcomes special guest Niels Kwakernaak to explore the significance of sharing personal stories. They discuss how Niels provides practical tips on writing and storytelling, emphasizing the therapeutic benefits and potential for deeper self-understanding through writing. They also demonstrate the value of aligning one's storytelling with personal faith and authenticity.
You will walk away with a professional editor's top tips on writing your stories. This episode offers valuable insights and inspiration to capture your life's journey for future generations, whether you consider yourself a writer or not.
00:00 Introduction: The Power of Your Story
00:44 Meet Niels Kwakernaak: A Journey to Storytelling
02:16 The Importance of Writing Your Story
04:32 Techniques for Effective Storytelling
07:19 Personal Reflections and Writing Tips
11:28 Niels' Path to Coaching and Editing
20:08 Unlocking Your Stories: Practical Tips
27:00 Final Thoughts and Encouragement
30:47 Conclusion: Engage Your Faith and Finish Well
Learn more about Niels at https://yourbeststory.net/
Quotes:
" It wouldn't be the first time somebody was just free writing and figured out like, 'Hey, wait a second. I do have something to say!'" Niels Kwakernaak
" You want to lure the reader in, in such a way that they are immediately in the middle of something so that they want to know what's coming next." Niels Kwakernaak
Niel's tips for unlocking stories:*
1. Go for a walk
2. Free Write
3. Draw a map of the area
*Be sure to listen beginning at the 20-minute mark for details.
Watch the video here.
I'd love to hear from you! Send me a text message!
Thank you for stopping by today! Remember to Engage Your Faith and Live Your More as you reap the benefits of Courageous Retirement!
To watch the video, check out my YouTube Channel!
Learn more about the show, author Vona Johnson, and more at CourageousRetirement.com!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Vona Johnson (00:00):
Do you have a story to tell?
(00:01):
In today's episode, my guest,Niels Kwakernaak and I are going
to uncover why your storymatters not just for you.
But for future generations, ifyou've ever felt the nudge to
share your personal experiences,this conversation can be your
guidepost.
be sure to stay to the end whereNiels shares his number one tip
(00:24):
for writing your stories.
Do you fear what lies beyond retirement?
What if it's a gateway to a lifefilled with purpose, meaning,
and adventure rather than anend?
Discover peace and fulfillmentas you boldly enter this new
chapter in CourageousRetirement, a Christian podcast.
I'm your host, author and coach,Vona Johnson.
Let's get started.
(00:44):
I am excited to have thisconversation today because we
all have a story in us.
I mean, just in the few minutesleading up to this conversation,
Niels and I talked about some ofour backstories and how we met
our spouses and things likethat.
So we all have a story somewhereto tell, but we don't all
realize how important it is toget that out.
(01:06):
When I met Niels and we startedhaving this conversation, I
realized that this is something,even if you're sitting here
listening to this.
And you're thinking, ah, I'm notan author.
I don't like to write.
I can't write.
I want you to stay with us todaybecause I think this is
something that could reallychange the way that you look at
your life and your legacy.
(01:27):
Niels, let's jump in.
First of all, welcome.
I'm so excited to have you heretoday.
Thank you.
All the way from the other sideof the world.
How amazing is our technologythat we can have a conversation
when we're on opposite ends ofthe world?
Niels Kwakernaak (01:41):
Yeah.
The sun has just come up thereand it's soon gonna go down
here, so it's, we're really ondifferent sides of the world.
Yeah.
Vona Johnson (01:50):
Niels and I met in a, C-suite for Christ, gathering
one day.
And because we both write or areauthors, we connected and there
are just so many interestingthings to talk about, you know,
where you're from.
I have so many questions andI've had the opportunity to ask
some of those, but I just.
(02:11):
Really, really love this idea ofwriting our story.
Niels will you tell us why is itimportant that we get our story
written and do it in a way thatwill have meaning for folks?
Niels Kwakernaak (02:25):
Well, first of all, why we would write it is we
want to leave a legacy to thepeople who come after us, our
children, our grandchildren.
We want to.
Especially when you, areretired, you have the time to
write these things down andthere might come a time that you
are not there anymore.
And I know how precious it is tohave something.
(02:48):
Then my mother passed away, afew years ago, and I still have
some, some written works by, byher hand, you know?
And just having that is such a,such a treasure.
So I, I can, I.
Open it and, and read some of itand hear her voice in my, in my
head and discover some of thethings that she was thinking.
(03:10):
I mean, I have this little bookthat she wrote when, when, when
she was a teenager.
Uh, so I hear her voice, butalso, some things that, that
betrayed is this, thisyouthfulness still, and it's
just such a treasure to have so.
Especially nowadays wheneverything has become email and
messages and so we, we are notmaking, often not making
(03:32):
anything lasting anymore.
When we write something down, wereally put effort into writing
this story.
Then you can put it into a bookor even written by hand.
You have something to give.
And some way to share, uh, withchildren and grandchildren or
with, if it is a bigger storythat, that, that is relevant for
more people.
You can actually publish it intoa, in a real book.
(03:54):
But the thing is, if you writefor other people and not for
yourself, then you have to makesure that it is comprehensible
and that it is engaging.
Because if, um.
If it is very dull or veryboring or way too much or
whatever, then uh, it is nicemaybe to read a little bit now
and then to have this voice andthis experience of having the
(04:16):
person close by.
But very few people read thewhole thing and, and to go
through the entire experience.
So that's a matter of, ofcourtesy.
Are you writing for yourself orare you writing for the person
who reads it?
Are you writing for your reader?
And.
If you are writing for thereader, then good writing is
actually the taking away ofobstacles to comprehension and
(04:38):
engagement.
And there are many things injust normal writing.
When you just sit down to write,you are actually putting a lot
of obstacles in front of yourreader that make it impossible
to be really engaged in thestory because, well, real
storytelling demands, um, uh,planning and demands.
(04:59):
Understanding of, of literarydevices and that sort of thing.
So the question is always, forwhom are you writing for
yourself or for others?
And if you want to write forothers, there is a whole lot to
learn.
And learning this stuff is, is,is, is a lot of fun.
I mean, it's, if, if you seeyour own scenes, uh, um, develop
(05:21):
on the page, you, you, yourealize that you're working on
something special.
And learning that whole processis, is great.
Vona Johnson (05:28):
And I mentioned that I've been toying with the
idea of writing fiction, but,and I love how what you're
saying actually goes right alongwith the, the gentleman that
I've followed along that linesand, and two things.
You talked about writing scenesand, and it's important to keep
the scene tight, right?
You don't mm-hmm.
Like you said, you don't wannajust dump everything right
(05:51):
there.
I love The concept of give themwhat they need when they need
it.
You don't start at thebeginning.
Mm-hmm.
And just tell itchronologically.
You tell them as it comes up.
Is that, I mean, I assume that'skind of part of your process
too, right?
Niels Kwakernaak (06:05):
Yeah, yeah.
There are different ways oftelling a story.
Uh, you can start in the middleof the action and then take some
backstory, or you can start atthe beginning.
But it is always important to bevery deliberate in every
decision that you make.
If you start from the verybeginning, there has to be
something to tell about thebeginning.
There must be something worthtelling.
(06:26):
So if you want to start withyour birth, uh, the day of the,
of your birth, then there betterbe something going on then, you
know.
Yeah.
For example, I I, I could maybestart with the day of my birth
because apparently I was bornwith my, uh, the umbilical cord
a couple of times around myneck.
So it was, the midwife, she wasunder the shower.
She couldn't come, so, oh, therewas, there was a lot going on
(06:48):
that night.
So if I would start my story.
On the day of my birth, on thenight of my birth, and I, I
would actually have something tosay, right?
Whether it is interesting thatis for other people to decide,
and I might have to talk with aneditor about that, but, um, most
births are just that, you know,and, and there, there is no
action.
(07:09):
The point is you want to lurethe reader in, in such a way
that they are immediately boom,in the middle of something so
that they want to know what'sgonna come next.
Vona Johnson (07:18):
Yes.
I love that, but I'm guessingthat most of the people that
will be listening to this arethinking, I don't, I don't wanna
write a book.
That's not a goal of mine.
So, I mean, we've already talkedabout the fact that I.
We, we want to write it for thatlegacy piece.
And when you were speaking, itoccurred to me that I'm working
(07:40):
on a project where, a woman juststarted her own personal
journey.
After she had discovered she haddementia, I.
And so I'm working with a group,her family's given us permission
to actually publish this so thatother people can learn from that
experience.
Mm-hmm.
And so that's a, maybe a littlebit different than what you're
talking about, but I think itbrings home the point that I.
(08:05):
Those words of hers are preciousto not just her family who now
can understand what she wasgoing through, but even me, who
I have both of my parents withdementia.
And just to have that, thatinsight into what she was going
through helps me understand alittle better what they're going
through.
So, like I said, there's always,there's always a benefit.
(08:28):
Somewhere.
And if God has nudged us towardsthat.
We should Hheed tht.
Yeah.
Niels Kwakernaak (08:34):
Yeah, exactly.
It can be very redemptive, uh,for, for other people, but also
for yourself.
I mean, uh, okay.
Tell us more about
Vona Johnson (08:42):
that.
Niels Kwakernaak (08:43):
You can, you can, writing can really help you
process things, you know, thingsthat, that have been painful to
the trauma or certain questionsyou still have to work through.
Writing is actually thinking onpaper and really taking the time
to think through things canreally help clear things up and
also really help to, give relieffrom pain.
(09:06):
So even if you, if you have nointentions whatsoever to publish
anything, it can be such a goodthing for your soul and for your
brain, for your mind to, uh, towrite these things down.
Uh, even, even just in a longhand so that maybe, maybe you
have a handwriting that nobodycan read.
It doesn't matter.
(09:26):
It is, it is about putting itdown on paper and in a way you
entrust it to.
To God also, I can write, writein prayer basically.
And, and I think, that is it, ithas so many benefits for your
soul, for your brain, and foryour own thinking.
I mean, you, you, you use, whenyou write and structure your
thoughts, you're using the, theexecutive functions of your
(09:49):
brain and that really, thatthat's really healthy to do.
Even if you don't want topublish anything, this, it's
still a very good thing to do.
And sometimes that may lead tothe discovery of things that are
worth sharing.
And so, so it, it wouldn't bethe first time that somebody was
just free writing and, and, andfigures out like, Hey, wait a
second.
I do have something to say.
I have something to tell toshare.
Vona Johnson (10:10):
Well, I really like that and I can think of
many times when I've had aconversation with a friend who.
Something that's been troublingthem for some time and at the
end of the conversation they'llsay something like, I don't know
why I just told you that, but Ijust feel so much better having
said it and the way youexplained it is, you could get
(10:33):
that same benefit from writingit down mm-hmm.
Just to process it and yourealize that.
You can almost like, reflect andrealize that you were holding
onto things
Niels Kwakernaak (10:43):
I spoke with a therapist once, it might
actually be one that I edited abook for.
I'm, I'm not entirely certainanymore, but to, the
recommendation in that book wasto write down, uh, from the
place of hurt, write down thetraumatic experiences, and then.
Burn the paper, you know?
Vona Johnson (11:02):
Yeah, yeah.
Niels Kwakernaak (11:04):
Uh, and, and then that shouldn't be, uh, it's
of course a symbolic act, butit's, it's sort of, you burn
that thing.
You, you don't want that to, todetermine anything in your life
anymore.
So, and that is also the, notonly the act of writing there,
but also the act of, of burningit.
But still, it, it is, it isclear that when you write things
down, you loosen it up.
(11:25):
You create new space.
Vona Johnson (11:26):
Yeah, I love that.
So tell me, Niels, how did youget to this point where you are
now helping, I assume you'reediting and coaching and I mean,
helping people through thatwhole process.
How did you get there?
What, what got you started onthis path?
Niels Kwakernaak (11:42):
Yeah, yeah.
It's somewhat of an unusual job,huh.
I've always.
Wanted to be a writer.
I think there have been times inmy life that I wanted to be all
kinds of things from, from, Iwanna be a famous drummer and I
wanted to all kinds of things.
But, uh, becoming a writer wassomething that kept coming back.
Yeah.
But I guess I never had theconfidence that I could do it,
(12:03):
until at some point, my hostessin Jerusalem said, Hey, you are
very talented.
I think you should do a course.
And I thought, okay, it's cool.
Like you tell me that I'mtalented, but do I need to do a
course that means that I'm bad,right?
Well, not at all.
Of course, this is a craft thatyou have to learn.
So I learned there from myhostess that writing is not
(12:26):
something you are born with.
It is not a talent that younaturally have.
Usually it is something you haveto learn.
So I learned it at the, in, uh,Institute for Writers, and a few
years later, when I met Aaliyah,when I came to live in Israel, I
got the opportunity to work foran editing company from America.
(12:47):
Is working from home.
Um, so I, uh, I had to do a testand it was really, really good.
So I, I performed very well inthat test.
And so a few weeks later Iworked as an editor and I wanted
to be a writer, but okay.
Editor is nice too, you know, sowhy not?
(13:08):
Later when I began to getsomewhat bored with, agency
work, I decided to start formyself.
And, and then I got to work onChristian books.
And that is actually, let's say,quote unquote coincidental
because my stepbrother started apublishing company at the very
(13:28):
same moment without our, we, we,we had no idea, you know?
So another step stepbrothersaid, Hey, maybe you can help
each other out.
Like, oh, okay, why not?
So now I've been working forthat publisher, for quite a few
books already, i, I began to seethat many of, many of the books
that I worked on from differentcustomers had very similar
(13:49):
issues.
And I realized that, um, well,an editor works after, you know,
once the, once the manuscript isdone and editor takes all the
mistakes out and tries to fixwhatever's broken.
But, uh, I realized that many ofthe errors were.
(14:10):
Caused by, uh, mistakes at thebeginning of the process.
You know, it's, if I could justhop on earlier in the process, I
would be able to do much morefor the writers.
So I began to think, well, maybeI can teach writing, maybe I can
coach writers to do it rightfrom the beginning so that once
they have their final manuscriptthat lands on the editor's desk,
(14:30):
the editor has to do much lesswork and that is much cheaper
then.
Sure.
So, uh, yeah, that, that's how Igot to coaching and, um, this is
what I'm trying to set up.
So in the meantime, I'm stillmostly editing.
Vona Johnson (14:44):
Okay.
Well that's really fascinating.
Where were you when I startedwriting?
Niels Kwakernaak (14:48):
how long ago was that?
Vona Johnson (14:50):
It's funny because I too always wrote.
I was writing poems, I waswriting my journals.
I was, you know, just writingstories for different things.
In fact, I started writing mybook in around 2020, so five
years ago.
Niels Kwakernaak (15:06):
Okay.
That's around that time as I wasat the University of Washington
to study editing.
Um, because when I started myown company, I thought, now I
want to know, I want to reallyknow how this world works of
editing, because when you areworking for an agency, you have
this, uh, this, this frameworkthat they, that they use, you
know, and that's it.
(15:27):
Um, so what it is professionalediting and you learn quite a
lot, but still you have no ideahow other companies are doing
it.
And so I, I, uh, I went toUniversity of Washington to
really learn how to edit for,uh, in all kinds of different
settings.
And so, so by the time youstarted writing, I, uh.
I think I was just finishedthen.
Yeah.
(15:47):
So we could have help you out.
And
Vona Johnson (15:49):
I worked with a, a company that kind of was a, it
was kind of a hybrid betweenself-publishing and, the
traditional publishing path.
Definitely was notprofessionally, edited by
someone like you who probablycould have really enhanced my
book and, you know,
Niels Kwakernaak (16:07):
yeah, that's, that's really it.
That's really in, uh, uh, aproblem, uh, in publishing
nowadays that, um.
Publishers, us usually often arenot offering really quality
editing anymore because it'sjust, it's just expensive.
Right.
Vona Johnson (16:24):
But if
Niels Kwakernaak (16:24):
you want to do that for your own book, uh, then
it is not less expensive, butyou have to pay it off, uh, from
your own pocket, you know?
Vona Johnson (16:31):
Right.
Niels Kwakernaak (16:32):
So this is also actually a reason for me to
offer this coaching.
Like the coaching also costsmoney.
It's not cheap, but you learnhow to prepare your documents in
such a way that the editor.
Uh, does not have so much workon it anymore, uh, because
editing becomes extremelyexpensive when the, the more
necessary it is, the moreexpensive it also becomes.
(16:54):
So, and, and, and the lessinclined the writer is to
actually hire those services.
Vona Johnson (17:00):
Right.
Niels Kwakernaak (17:01):
So, and that is a problem.
The, the, so the worst writersare just publishing without any
kind of editing.
Uh, and that is a pity becausethose, it makes really, that
these stories sometimes are, arejust unreadable.
You know, they're, you cannotget engaged by it because it is
repetitious.
Um, it is long-winded.
(17:21):
It is you, you know, theproblems.
Vona Johnson (17:23):
Yes.
Uh,
Niels Kwakernaak (17:24):
it's also very difficult then to, to find
self-published books that arereally quality.
Like how do you know which booksare are good?
Because there are so many bookspublished that are actually.
Hmm.
Difficult to read.
Vona Johnson (17:38):
But I think the point, I think the point is
still there, it, you know,whether someone that's listening
right now wants to publish andgo through that whole process,
or if they just wanna get thisstory down, you know, when you
were talking about your mother,or your grandmother had written
a story.
Niels Kwakernaak (17:56):
Oh, the who, who passed away?
Vona Johnson (17:57):
Yeah.
Niels Kwakernaak (17:58):
Okay.
It was not a story, it was justa journal.
Vona Johnson (18:00):
Okay.
Well, but similar, because Ihave, and it's really cool.
If I'd have known we were gonnago here, I would've grabbed it.
But my grandmother did just likea little notebook.
It's about this big.
And when, back in the twenties.
She and a girlfriend took hermodel A and traveled from South
(18:21):
Dakota to California.
Now, back then, two women.
That was unheard of for them totake off and travel on their
own.
I mean, literally, she dressedas a man so that they could do
this without attention drawn tothem but she kept in this little
notebook.
She kept track of where theywere every day, what they were
doing.
And that little notebook ispriceless to me.
(18:45):
Um, absolutely.
Yeah.
In fact, I wanna do that tripsomeday and, and we'd like to
even figure out a way of likepublishing a book around that
story and the journey.
Mm-hmm.
That I think
Niels Kwakernaak (18:59):
that, oh yeah, that's it.
Wow.
That might be very interestingindeed.
Yeah.
Vona Johnson (19:03):
Yeah.
Niels Kwakernaak (19:03):
Especially if there are life stories that,
that you can connect to it, to,to give it extra depth.
You know, I, I, I can see, I cansee that being a very, becoming
a very interesting book indeed.
Vona Johnson (19:13):
Oh, yeah, she has some life stories that
Niels Kwakernaak (19:16):
she,
Vona Johnson (19:17):
She was the independent woman before her
time and, you know, just did allthe things.
So, was a great role model tohave.
She, she was my first bestfriend and it was truly a gift,
but again, mm-hmm.
We we all have those people inour lives that we, we wish we
knew more about.
Right.
And mm-hmm.
(19:37):
Right.
We can give them that gift.
We can write those stories.
Mm-hmm.
And why not use some of thethings that, that you're talking
about
Niels Kwakernaak (19:46):
think much is, uh, also mm.
I, I think some people also havetrouble with actually
remembering stories and so on.
Like, well, what are, what,what, how did things happen and
what was it exactly?
And, uh, so when I'm coaching,I'm also paying attention to
that, you know, that, like howdo you find these stories?
It's un unlocking these storiesinside of you.
(20:08):
Um, and, I would like to givethree short tips for this.
That'd be wonderful.
Vona Johnson (20:13):
Thank you.
Niels Kwakernaak (20:14):
One thing I'm really fan of doing is just
taking long walks and actuallytalk to yourself, speak through
the things, uh, for, you could,you could call it a prayer or
just thinking aloud, but just goto, go to childhood and, and,
and speak to yourself.
Speak through these thingsbecause, uh, I think that it's
(20:35):
better than just thinking.
Because you are more consciousof the train of thought that
you're following, and you candiscover a lot of interesting
things about your life if youvery consciously think through
them.
And another way of doing that,and that is in the second, uh,
tip.
Is free writing it, it is.
It means that you just startwriting without actually having
(20:58):
a goal with it, and you don'treally know where you're going.
You just write what comes tomind.
And sometimes you go layerslayer after layer deeper into
the stuff that lives inside ofyou, and you can unlock stories
that way that you completely,completely forgotten about.
Uh, so, uh, you can do that witha Word document or, or pen on
(21:21):
paper.
Um, but the point is keepwriting for a certain amount of
time or until you're empty andjust discover what is in there,
what comes out.
And then the third one that Ifind extremely helpful.
And actually it helped me alsoremember all kinds of things
that I completely forgot, is todraw a map of.
(21:43):
Places where you have lived.
For example, the house you grewup in, and all of the streets
surrounding that house and allthe houses that you remember
being there and the bridge andthe pond and the park and, and.
Mentally walk through all theseplaces and just basically look
around and see what happened inthose places.
(22:03):
What, what happened there?
Hey, that old lady over there,she always, always gave me
cookies.
Hey, why, why was I there?
You know, ah, because she hadthis and that.
And when, when I'm thinking,when I'm drawing a map of
someplace where it lives, andyou can do it with every
timeframe of your life.
Then these memories begin tocome up when, when you draw this
little house on, on the map withthe little, um, little pathway
(22:28):
and the street and where thecars are parked and all these
memories slowly begin to pop upand, and you can write them
down, I said, as just for all Icare on the map, in a few words,
the memory, describe the memorythat that is linked to that
place, and then later you can.
Um, take those little fragmentsof memory and free write about
(22:51):
them to find out more.
And then sometimes you canrediscover all kinds of things,
like how people were looking,why they were, um, uh, how they
were standing, what they weresaying.
You can discover a whole lot ofthings by just, trying to see it
again.
And a map, A map can beextremely helpful.
Vona Johnson (23:13):
I love those ideas.
That's that, that last oneespecially really, is a
fascinating concept.
I, I think that that would bereally, really helpful.
I found in my writing, they talkabout, you know, getting into
the zone and, you know, it'slike getting all the outside
world interruptions aside.
And when I got to writing, itwas like just filled with the
(23:34):
Holy Spirit.
And I mean, there would be timesI would go back and be editing
and reading through what I wroteand I would be like, wow, I
wrote that.
Mm-hmm.
Where did that come from?
And, and that mm-hmm.
That in itself is just, anamazing gift.
Before we had this conversation,we both separately prayed about
(23:54):
this conversation.
You mentioned it.
Mm-hmm.
And I didn't, but I, Iabsolutely was.
I always do.
And I think that that's a, agreat tip for anyone, but
whether they're going into aconversation or whether they're
sitting down to write orwhatever, but to just pray and
ask the Holy Spirit mm-hmm.
To guide those thoughts.
Right,
Niels Kwakernaak (24:13):
right.
Actually, my coaching is, uh.
Divided it into six actionsteps, and the first one is
simply aligning your heart withGod's heart.
It is making sure that yourmission in life is to, to do
what God wants you to do.
Because from from that, you canfind subjects to write about
and, your mission, et cetera.
(24:34):
You know, if you write from adesire to please God and to
write the things that he wantsyou to write about.
You start off on such a goodbasis,
Vona Johnson (24:43):
yeah.
I could see where I couldbenefit from your coaching.
When do we start?
Niels Kwakernaak (24:53):
No, maybe we've started already.
Vona Johnson (24:55):
Maybe we have.
Maybe we have.
This has been so enlightening.
I've just, really enjoyed thisand I know that we've only hit
the tip of the iceberg.
And that's okay, because wedon't wanna give all your
secrets away in thisconversation.
If someone listening to this waslike, I need this.
I'm right where God needs methis moment, and I need to, to
(25:17):
take the next step.
How could, how could they workwith you?
How could they take that nextstep?
Niels Kwakernaak (25:21):
Uh, well, there are a few things.
First of all, I have an emaillist that, every week I try to,
send some good tips, some goodadvice to all my subscribers.
I.
And also it comes with a freewriting course where I give also
some of the best of my advice.
My advice in general is free.
What is not free is my actualhands-on help.
(25:43):
So, I also offer, one hour freecoaching sessions.
The first hour is always free,and I'm gonna do everything to,
to help you unlock these storiesand to develop a pathway
forward.
And if then you don't want towork with me problem whatsoever.
This hour is for you to helpyou.
(26:06):
And those are a few things youcould do.
Join my mailing list and whenyou do so, I offer you also a
free coaching session and, andwell within the coaching
session, I might also recommendsome books that are perfect to
start with.
My website iswww.yourbeststory.net.
Your best story net.
Vona Johnson (26:28):
I love it.
That's, that's a great website.
Niels Kwakernaak (26:30):
It, it also reflects my desire.
It's my desire to help you writeyour best story.
Yeah.
And, uh, sometimes I, I, I'mpraying for my company and I
mention your best story, and Ithink, wow, I hope that my life
will also be God's best story.
You know, then I mean, my life,our lives, you know, that we as
believers may reflect God's beststory, you know, so that's,
(26:52):
it's, it's a multi-layered, uh,um.
Name you could say.
I,
Vona Johnson (26:57):
I love that.
I really do.
So, as we wrap up thisconversation, and I think we
could go on for a very longtime.
Mm-hmm.
As we wrap up, is there any lastword of advice that you would
give our listeners today?
Anything that you would wannadrive home before they, they
take off?
Niels Kwakernaak (27:17):
Yeah.
I think what I.
I had a whole list of, of thingsI, had wanted to say, but I, but
I think the most important thingis it's there to be authentic.
I think that is what's anybodywho reads your work wants is
they want to read about aperson, somebody who's not
(27:37):
hiding, uh, be behind difficultwords or, theories or, or who is
not presenting the subject froma distance, but who is really
speaking about everything fromtheir own experiences, from
their own feelings, so thatpeople who read your work will
really read a person's, story.
And yeah, that's, that.
(27:59):
That's it.
Authenticity is super important.
Vona Johnson (28:02):
Well, it is, and I think, you know, we have.
Our world in general has thistendency to wanna polish things
up and make'em pretty before wepresent them.
And what I hear you saying isdon't, don't make that your
focus.
Niels Kwakernaak (28:17):
No.
Focus on presenting your storyas powerfully as possible, but
be very vulnerable, uh, in whatyou, uh, what you say.
I think that is, that'svulnerability and that is, that
is the way to people's heartsand indeed to, to.
To present a better version ofyourself.
It's, it's not helping anybody.
(28:40):
Right.
Vona Johnson (28:42):
Well, and I, I, I think that's great advice for
whether we're writing our storyor having a conversation or, or
anything that we do.
Just be ourselves and be, bevulnerable and, yeah, I love
that.
And, and I'll bring it all theway back to the beginning of the
conversation.
There are times when.
(29:04):
We don't need to bring the wholedump truck.
Right,
Niels Kwakernaak (29:08):
right.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
That's, that's one of the thingstoo, uh, one of my main focal
points when I, when I coach, isfigure out what do you want to
say and exclude everything thatdoes not, that does not have to
do with this main message, thismain thesis that you're trying
to, uh, to bring across.
So learn to exclude things.
(29:30):
Learn to really.
To pinpoint what you want to sayand make sure that every chapter
that you write works to conveythat one message.
Um, because readers can getlost, right?
Literally, they can becompletely lost in, uh, in a
book that, well, actually, whenpeople say, I got lost in that
book, they often mean somethingpositive.
(29:52):
I mean, that they just don'tknow anymore where it's going.
You know?
Hmm.
Um, and that is, uh, I thinkdanger number one, when you
start writing without a plan.
So make sure that you know whatyou're gonna say and then create
a plan as to how to get there sothat your reader knows that
they're in good hands.
Vona Johnson (30:12):
I think that is excellent advice and a really
great place to end thisconversation.
Niels, I just wanna thank you somuch for taking the time out of
your busy day and now thatyou're wrapping up your busy
day.
But anyway, thank you so muchfor, for sharing this, this
wisdom.
I'm excited to continue to learnand grow, in my writing with
(30:34):
you.
So thank you so much.
Take care.
Niels Kwakernaak (30:36):
My pleasure and good luck with your own
writing and with your fiction.
If you have any questions, thenyou know where to find me.
Vona Johnson (30:44):
I do.
Thank you.
Niels Kwakernaak (30:45):
God bless you.
Bye-bye.
So I'm curious, what stories areyou thinking that you maybe
should write down?
Is God nudging you in thatdirection?
I encourage you to put intopractice some of the tips and
strategies that Niels offeredtoday and see if God won't help
you write that story.
If he brought you to it, he willhelp you get it down on paper
(31:08):
and who knows whose lives youwill touch by writing down those
stories that he has laid on yourheart and those messages, that
inspiration to help others knowthat they can trust him and lean
on him.
So I just wanna thank you forstopping by today.
I hope you'll come back in acouple of weeks.
We're gonna take a little bitdifferent approach and start
(31:28):
talking about how we can finishwell as we near retirement.
What does it look like to wrapthings up nicely and finish
well?
I hope you'll come back forthat.
In the meantime, I pray thatyou'll always, always engage
your faith, live your more inthis beautiful time of
courageous retirement.
God bless.
Do you have a story to tell?
(00:01):
In today's episode, my guest,Niels Kwakernaak and I are going
to uncover why your storymatters not just for you.
But for future generations, ifyou've ever felt the nudge to
share your personal experiences,this conversation can be your
guidepost.
be sure to stay to the end whereNiels shares his number one tip
(00:24):
for writing your stories.
Do you fear what lies beyond retirement?
What if it's a gateway to a lifefilled with purpose, meaning,
and adventure rather than anend?
Discover peace and fulfillmentas you boldly enter this new
chapter in CourageousRetirement, a Christian podcast.
I'm your host, author and coach,Vona Johnson.
Let's get started.
(00:44):
I am excited to have thisconversation today because we
all have a story in us.
I mean, just in the few minutesleading up to this conversation,
Niels and I talked about some ofour backstories and how we met
our spouses and things likethat.
So we all have a story somewhereto tell, but we don't all
realize how important it is toget that out.
(01:06):
When I met Niels and we startedhaving this conversation, I
realized that this is something,even if you're sitting here
listening to this.
And you're thinking, ah, I'm notan author.
I don't like to write.
I can't write.
I want you to stay with us todaybecause I think this is
something that could reallychange the way that you look at
your life and your legacy.
(01:27):
Niels, let's jump in.
First of all, welcome.
I'm so excited to have you heretoday.
Thank you.
All the way from the other sideof the world.
How amazing is our technologythat we can have a conversation
when we're on opposite ends ofthe world?
Niels Kwakernaak (01:41):
Yeah.
The sun has just come up thereand it's soon gonna go down
here, so it's, we're really ondifferent sides of the world.
Yeah.
Vona Johnson (01:50):
Niels and I met in a, C-suite for Christ, gathering
one day.
And because we both write or areauthors, we connected and there
are just so many interestingthings to talk about, you know,
where you're from.
I have so many questions andI've had the opportunity to ask
some of those, but I just.
(02:11):
Really, really love this idea ofwriting our story.
Niels will you tell us why is itimportant that we get our story
written and do it in a way thatwill have meaning for folks?
Niels Kwakernaak (02:25):
Well, first of all, why we would write it is we
want to leave a legacy to thepeople who come after us, our
children, our grandchildren.
We want to.
Especially when you, areretired, you have the time to
write these things down andthere might come a time that you
are not there anymore.
And I know how precious it is tohave something.
(02:48):
Then my mother passed away, afew years ago, and I still have
some, some written works by, byher hand, you know?
And just having that is such a,such a treasure.
So I, I can, I.
Open it and, and read some of itand hear her voice in my, in my
head and discover some of thethings that she was thinking.
(03:10):
I mean, I have this little bookthat she wrote when, when, when
she was a teenager.
Uh, so I hear her voice, butalso, some things that, that
betrayed is this, thisyouthfulness still, and it's
just such a treasure to have so.
Especially nowadays wheneverything has become email and
messages and so we, we are notmaking, often not making
(03:32):
anything lasting anymore.
When we write something down, wereally put effort into writing
this story.
Then you can put it into a bookor even written by hand.
You have something to give.
And some way to share, uh, withchildren and grandchildren or
with, if it is a bigger storythat, that, that is relevant for
more people.
You can actually publish it intoa, in a real book.
(03:54):
But the thing is, if you writefor other people and not for
yourself, then you have to makesure that it is comprehensible
and that it is engaging.
Because if, um.
If it is very dull or veryboring or way too much or
whatever, then uh, it is nicemaybe to read a little bit now
and then to have this voice andthis experience of having the
(04:16):
person close by.
But very few people read thewhole thing and, and to go
through the entire experience.
So that's a matter of, ofcourtesy.
Are you writing for yourself orare you writing for the person
who reads it?
Are you writing for your reader?
And.
If you are writing for thereader, then good writing is
actually the taking away ofobstacles to comprehension and
(04:38):
engagement.
And there are many things injust normal writing.
When you just sit down to write,you are actually putting a lot
of obstacles in front of yourreader that make it impossible
to be really engaged in thestory because, well, real
storytelling demands, um, uh,planning and demands.
(04:59):
Understanding of, of literarydevices and that sort of thing.
So the question is always, forwhom are you writing for
yourself or for others?
And if you want to write forothers, there is a whole lot to
learn.
And learning this stuff is, is,is, is a lot of fun.
I mean, it's, if, if you seeyour own scenes, uh, um, develop
(05:21):
on the page, you, you, yourealize that you're working on
something special.
And learning that whole processis, is great.
Vona Johnson (05:28):
And I mentioned that I've been toying with the
idea of writing fiction, but,and I love how what you're
saying actually goes right alongwith the, the gentleman that
I've followed along that linesand, and two things.
You talked about writing scenesand, and it's important to keep
the scene tight, right?
You don't mm-hmm.
Like you said, you don't wannajust dump everything right
(05:51):
there.
I love The concept of give themwhat they need when they need
it.
You don't start at thebeginning.
Mm-hmm.
And just tell itchronologically.
You tell them as it comes up.
Is that, I mean, I assume that'skind of part of your process
too, right?
Niels Kwakernaak (06:05):
Yeah, yeah.
There are different ways oftelling a story.
Uh, you can start in the middleof the action and then take some
backstory, or you can start atthe beginning.
But it is always important to bevery deliberate in every
decision that you make.
If you start from the verybeginning, there has to be
something to tell about thebeginning.
There must be something worthtelling.
(06:26):
So if you want to start withyour birth, uh, the day of the,
of your birth, then there betterbe something going on then, you
know.
Yeah.
For example, I I, I could maybestart with the day of my birth
because apparently I was bornwith my, uh, the umbilical cord
a couple of times around myneck.
So it was, the midwife, she wasunder the shower.
She couldn't come, so, oh, therewas, there was a lot going on
(06:48):
that night.
So if I would start my story.
On the day of my birth, on thenight of my birth, and I, I
would actually have something tosay, right?
Whether it is interesting thatis for other people to decide,
and I might have to talk with aneditor about that, but, um, most
births are just that, you know,and, and there, there is no
action.
(07:09):
The point is you want to lurethe reader in, in such a way
that they are immediately boom,in the middle of something so
that they want to know what'sgonna come next.
Vona Johnson (07:18):
Yes.
I love that, but I'm guessingthat most of the people that
will be listening to this arethinking, I don't, I don't wanna
write a book.
That's not a goal of mine.
So, I mean, we've already talkedabout the fact that I.
We, we want to write it for thatlegacy piece.
And when you were speaking, itoccurred to me that I'm working
(07:40):
on a project where, a woman juststarted her own personal
journey.
After she had discovered she haddementia, I.
And so I'm working with a group,her family's given us permission
to actually publish this so thatother people can learn from that
experience.
Mm-hmm.
And so that's a, maybe a littlebit different than what you're
talking about, but I think itbrings home the point that I.
(08:05):
Those words of hers are preciousto not just her family who now
can understand what she wasgoing through, but even me, who
I have both of my parents withdementia.
And just to have that, thatinsight into what she was going
through helps me understand alittle better what they're going
through.
So, like I said, there's always,there's always a benefit.
(08:28):
Somewhere.
And if God has nudged us towardsthat.
We should Hheed tht.
Yeah.
Niels Kwakernaak (08:34):
Yeah, exactly.
It can be very redemptive, uh,for, for other people, but also
for yourself.
I mean, uh, okay.
Tell us more about
Vona Johnson (08:42):
that.
Niels Kwakernaak (08:43):
You can, you can, writing can really help you
process things, you know, thingsthat, that have been painful to
the trauma or certain questionsyou still have to work through.
Writing is actually thinking onpaper and really taking the time
to think through things canreally help clear things up and
also really help to, give relieffrom pain.
(09:06):
So even if you, if you have nointentions whatsoever to publish
anything, it can be such a goodthing for your soul and for your
brain, for your mind to, uh, towrite these things down.
Uh, even, even just in a longhand so that maybe, maybe you
have a handwriting that nobodycan read.
It doesn't matter.
(09:26):
It is, it is about putting itdown on paper and in a way you
entrust it to.
To God also, I can write, writein prayer basically.
And, and I think, that is it, ithas so many benefits for your
soul, for your brain, and foryour own thinking.
I mean, you, you, you use, whenyou write and structure your
thoughts, you're using the, theexecutive functions of your
(09:49):
brain and that really, thatthat's really healthy to do.
Even if you don't want topublish anything, this, it's
still a very good thing to do.
And sometimes that may lead tothe discovery of things that are
worth sharing.
And so, so it, it wouldn't bethe first time that somebody was
just free writing and, and, andfigures out like, Hey, wait a
second.
I do have something to say.
I have something to tell toshare.
Vona Johnson (10:10):
Well, I really like that and I can think of
many times when I've had aconversation with a friend who.
Something that's been troublingthem for some time and at the
end of the conversation they'llsay something like, I don't know
why I just told you that, but Ijust feel so much better having
said it and the way youexplained it is, you could get
(10:33):
that same benefit from writingit down mm-hmm.
Just to process it and yourealize that.
You can almost like, reflect andrealize that you were holding
onto things
Niels Kwakernaak (10:43):
I spoke with a therapist once, it might
actually be one that I edited abook for.
I'm, I'm not entirely certainanymore, but to, the
recommendation in that book wasto write down, uh, from the
place of hurt, write down thetraumatic experiences, and then.
Burn the paper, you know?
Vona Johnson (11:02):
Yeah, yeah.
Niels Kwakernaak (11:04):
Uh, and, and then that shouldn't be, uh, it's
of course a symbolic act, butit's, it's sort of, you burn
that thing.
You, you don't want that to, todetermine anything in your life
anymore.
So, and that is also the, notonly the act of writing there,
but also the act of, of burningit.
But still, it, it is, it isclear that when you write things
down, you loosen it up.
(11:25):
You create new space.
Vona Johnson (11:26):
Yeah, I love that.
So tell me, Niels, how did youget to this point where you are
now helping, I assume you'reediting and coaching and I mean,
helping people through thatwhole process.
How did you get there?
What, what got you started onthis path?
Niels Kwakernaak (11:42):
Yeah, yeah.
It's somewhat of an unusual job,huh.
I've always.
Wanted to be a writer.
I think there have been times inmy life that I wanted to be all
kinds of things from, from, Iwanna be a famous drummer and I
wanted to all kinds of things.
But, uh, becoming a writer wassomething that kept coming back.
Yeah.
But I guess I never had theconfidence that I could do it,
(12:03):
until at some point, my hostessin Jerusalem said, Hey, you are
very talented.
I think you should do a course.
And I thought, okay, it's cool.
Like you tell me that I'mtalented, but do I need to do a
course that means that I'm bad,right?
Well, not at all.
Of course, this is a craft thatyou have to learn.
So I learned there from myhostess that writing is not
(12:26):
something you are born with.
It is not a talent that younaturally have.
Usually it is something you haveto learn.
So I learned it at the, in, uh,Institute for Writers, and a few
years later, when I met Aaliyah,when I came to live in Israel, I
got the opportunity to work foran editing company from America.
(12:47):
Is working from home.
Um, so I, uh, I had to do a testand it was really, really good.
So I, I performed very well inthat test.
And so a few weeks later Iworked as an editor and I wanted
to be a writer, but okay.
Editor is nice too, you know, sowhy not?
(13:08):
Later when I began to getsomewhat bored with, agency
work, I decided to start formyself.
And, and then I got to work onChristian books.
And that is actually, let's say,quote unquote coincidental
because my stepbrother started apublishing company at the very
(13:28):
same moment without our, we, we,we had no idea, you know?
So another step stepbrothersaid, Hey, maybe you can help
each other out.
Like, oh, okay, why not?
So now I've been working forthat publisher, for quite a few
books already, i, I began to seethat many of, many of the books
that I worked on from differentcustomers had very similar
(13:49):
issues.
And I realized that, um, well,an editor works after, you know,
once the, once the manuscript isdone and editor takes all the
mistakes out and tries to fixwhatever's broken.
But, uh, I realized that many ofthe errors were.
(14:10):
Caused by, uh, mistakes at thebeginning of the process.
You know, it's, if I could justhop on earlier in the process, I
would be able to do much morefor the writers.
So I began to think, well, maybeI can teach writing, maybe I can
coach writers to do it rightfrom the beginning so that once
they have their final manuscriptthat lands on the editor's desk,
(14:30):
the editor has to do much lesswork and that is much cheaper
then.
Sure.
So, uh, yeah, that, that's how Igot to coaching and, um, this is
what I'm trying to set up.
So in the meantime, I'm stillmostly editing.
Vona Johnson (14:44):
Okay.
Well that's really fascinating.
Where were you when I startedwriting?
Niels Kwakernaak (14:48):
how long ago was that?
Vona Johnson (14:50):
It's funny because I too always wrote.
I was writing poems, I waswriting my journals.
I was, you know, just writingstories for different things.
In fact, I started writing mybook in around 2020, so five
years ago.
Niels Kwakernaak (15:06):
Okay.
That's around that time as I wasat the University of Washington
to study editing.
Um, because when I started myown company, I thought, now I
want to know, I want to reallyknow how this world works of
editing, because when you areworking for an agency, you have
this, uh, this, this frameworkthat they, that they use, you
know, and that's it.
(15:27):
Um, so what it is professionalediting and you learn quite a
lot, but still you have no ideahow other companies are doing
it.
And so I, I, uh, I went toUniversity of Washington to
really learn how to edit for,uh, in all kinds of different
settings.
And so, so by the time youstarted writing, I, uh.
I think I was just finishedthen.
Yeah.
(15:47):
So we could have help you out.
And
Vona Johnson (15:49):
I worked with a, a company that kind of was a, it
was kind of a hybrid betweenself-publishing and, the
traditional publishing path.
Definitely was notprofessionally, edited by
someone like you who probablycould have really enhanced my
book and, you know,
Niels Kwakernaak (16:07):
yeah, that's, that's really it.
That's really in, uh, uh, aproblem, uh, in publishing
nowadays that, um.
Publishers, us usually often arenot offering really quality
editing anymore because it'sjust, it's just expensive.
Right.
Vona Johnson (16:24):
But if
Niels Kwakernaak (16:24):
you want to do that for your own book, uh, then
it is not less expensive, butyou have to pay it off, uh, from
your own pocket, you know?
Vona Johnson (16:31):
Right.
Niels Kwakernaak (16:32):
So this is also actually a reason for me to
offer this coaching.
Like the coaching also costsmoney.
It's not cheap, but you learnhow to prepare your documents in
such a way that the editor.
Uh, does not have so much workon it anymore, uh, because
editing becomes extremelyexpensive when the, the more
necessary it is, the moreexpensive it also becomes.
(16:54):
So, and, and, and the lessinclined the writer is to
actually hire those services.
Vona Johnson (17:00):
Right.
Niels Kwakernaak (17:01):
So, and that is a problem.
The, the, so the worst writersare just publishing without any
kind of editing.
Uh, and that is a pity becausethose, it makes really, that
these stories sometimes are, arejust unreadable.
You know, they're, you cannotget engaged by it because it is
repetitious.
Um, it is long-winded.
(17:21):
It is you, you know, theproblems.
Vona Johnson (17:23):
Yes.
Uh,
Niels Kwakernaak (17:24):
it's also very difficult then to, to find
self-published books that arereally quality.
Like how do you know which booksare are good?
Because there are so many bookspublished that are actually.
Hmm.
Difficult to read.
Vona Johnson (17:38):
But I think the point, I think the point is
still there, it, you know,whether someone that's listening
right now wants to publish andgo through that whole process,
or if they just wanna get thisstory down, you know, when you
were talking about your mother,or your grandmother had written
a story.
Niels Kwakernaak (17:56):
Oh, the who, who passed away?
Vona Johnson (17:57):
Yeah.
Niels Kwakernaak (17:58):
Okay.
It was not a story, it was justa journal.
Vona Johnson (18:00):
Okay.
Well, but similar, because Ihave, and it's really cool.
If I'd have known we were gonnago here, I would've grabbed it.
But my grandmother did just likea little notebook.
It's about this big.
And when, back in the twenties.
She and a girlfriend took hermodel A and traveled from South
(18:21):
Dakota to California.
Now, back then, two women.
That was unheard of for them totake off and travel on their
own.
I mean, literally, she dressedas a man so that they could do
this without attention drawn tothem but she kept in this little
notebook.
She kept track of where theywere every day, what they were
doing.
And that little notebook ispriceless to me.
(18:45):
Um, absolutely.
Yeah.
In fact, I wanna do that tripsomeday and, and we'd like to
even figure out a way of likepublishing a book around that
story and the journey.
Mm-hmm.
That I think
Niels Kwakernaak (18:59):
that, oh yeah, that's it.
Wow.
That might be very interestingindeed.
Yeah.
Vona Johnson (19:03):
Yeah.
Niels Kwakernaak (19:03):
Especially if there are life stories that,
that you can connect to it, to,to give it extra depth.
You know, I, I, I can see, I cansee that being a very, becoming
a very interesting book indeed.
Vona Johnson (19:13):
Oh, yeah, she has some life stories that
Niels Kwakernaak (19:16):
she,
Vona Johnson (19:17):
She was the independent woman before her
time and, you know, just did allthe things.
So, was a great role model tohave.
She, she was my first bestfriend and it was truly a gift,
but again, mm-hmm.
We we all have those people inour lives that we, we wish we
knew more about.
Right.
And mm-hmm.
(19:37):
Right.
We can give them that gift.
We can write those stories.
Mm-hmm.
And why not use some of thethings that, that you're talking
about
Niels Kwakernaak (19:46):
think much is, uh, also mm.
I, I think some people also havetrouble with actually
remembering stories and so on.
Like, well, what are, what,what, how did things happen and
what was it exactly?
And, uh, so when I'm coaching,I'm also paying attention to
that, you know, that, like howdo you find these stories?
It's un unlocking these storiesinside of you.
(20:08):
Um, and, I would like to givethree short tips for this.
That'd be wonderful.
Vona Johnson (20:13):
Thank you.
Niels Kwakernaak (20:14):
One thing I'm really fan of doing is just
taking long walks and actuallytalk to yourself, speak through
the things, uh, for, you could,you could call it a prayer or
just thinking aloud, but just goto, go to childhood and, and,
and speak to yourself.
Speak through these thingsbecause, uh, I think that it's
(20:35):
better than just thinking.
Because you are more consciousof the train of thought that
you're following, and you candiscover a lot of interesting
things about your life if youvery consciously think through
them.
And another way of doing that,and that is in the second, uh,
tip.
Is free writing it, it is.
It means that you just startwriting without actually having
(20:58):
a goal with it, and you don'treally know where you're going.
You just write what comes tomind.
And sometimes you go layerslayer after layer deeper into
the stuff that lives inside ofyou, and you can unlock stories
that way that you completely,completely forgotten about.
Uh, so, uh, you can do that witha Word document or, or pen on
(21:21):
paper.
Um, but the point is keepwriting for a certain amount of
time or until you're empty andjust discover what is in there,
what comes out.
And then the third one that Ifind extremely helpful.
And actually it helped me alsoremember all kinds of things
that I completely forgot, is todraw a map of.
(21:43):
Places where you have lived.
For example, the house you grewup in, and all of the streets
surrounding that house and allthe houses that you remember
being there and the bridge andthe pond and the park and, and.
Mentally walk through all theseplaces and just basically look
around and see what happened inthose places.
(22:03):
What, what happened there?
Hey, that old lady over there,she always, always gave me
cookies.
Hey, why, why was I there?
You know, ah, because she hadthis and that.
And when, when I'm thinking,when I'm drawing a map of
someplace where it lives, andyou can do it with every
timeframe of your life.
Then these memories begin tocome up when, when you draw this
little house on, on the map withthe little, um, little pathway
(22:28):
and the street and where thecars are parked and all these
memories slowly begin to pop upand, and you can write them
down, I said, as just for all Icare on the map, in a few words,
the memory, describe the memorythat that is linked to that
place, and then later you can.
Um, take those little fragmentsof memory and free write about
(22:51):
them to find out more.
And then sometimes you canrediscover all kinds of things,
like how people were looking,why they were, um, uh, how they
were standing, what they weresaying.
You can discover a whole lot ofthings by just, trying to see it
again.
And a map, A map can beextremely helpful.
Vona Johnson (23:13):
I love those ideas.
That's that, that last oneespecially really, is a
fascinating concept.
I, I think that that would bereally, really helpful.
I found in my writing, they talkabout, you know, getting into
the zone and, you know, it'slike getting all the outside
world interruptions aside.
And when I got to writing, itwas like just filled with the
(23:34):
Holy Spirit.
And I mean, there would be timesI would go back and be editing
and reading through what I wroteand I would be like, wow, I
wrote that.
Mm-hmm.
Where did that come from?
And, and that mm-hmm.
That in itself is just, anamazing gift.
Before we had this conversation,we both separately prayed about
(23:54):
this conversation.
You mentioned it.
Mm-hmm.
And I didn't, but I, Iabsolutely was.
I always do.
And I think that that's a, agreat tip for anyone, but
whether they're going into aconversation or whether they're
sitting down to write orwhatever, but to just pray and
ask the Holy Spirit mm-hmm.
To guide those thoughts.
Right,
Niels Kwakernaak (24:13):
right.
Actually, my coaching is, uh.
Divided it into six actionsteps, and the first one is
simply aligning your heart withGod's heart.
It is making sure that yourmission in life is to, to do
what God wants you to do.
Because from from that, you canfind subjects to write about
and, your mission, et cetera.
(24:34):
You know, if you write from adesire to please God and to
write the things that he wantsyou to write about.
You start off on such a goodbasis,
Vona Johnson (24:43):
yeah.
I could see where I couldbenefit from your coaching.
When do we start?
Niels Kwakernaak (24:53):
No, maybe we've started already.
Vona Johnson (24:55):
Maybe we have.
Maybe we have.
This has been so enlightening.
I've just, really enjoyed thisand I know that we've only hit
the tip of the iceberg.
And that's okay, because wedon't wanna give all your
secrets away in thisconversation.
If someone listening to this waslike, I need this.
I'm right where God needs methis moment, and I need to, to
(25:17):
take the next step.
How could, how could they workwith you?
How could they take that nextstep?
Niels Kwakernaak (25:21):
Uh, well, there are a few things.
First of all, I have an emaillist that, every week I try to,
send some good tips, some goodadvice to all my subscribers.
I.
And also it comes with a freewriting course where I give also
some of the best of my advice.
My advice in general is free.
What is not free is my actualhands-on help.
(25:43):
So, I also offer, one hour freecoaching sessions.
The first hour is always free,and I'm gonna do everything to,
to help you unlock these storiesand to develop a pathway
forward.
And if then you don't want towork with me problem whatsoever.
This hour is for you to helpyou.
(26:06):
And those are a few things youcould do.
Join my mailing list and whenyou do so, I offer you also a
free coaching session and, andwell within the coaching
session, I might also recommendsome books that are perfect to
start with.
My website iswww.yourbeststory.net.
Your best story net.
Vona Johnson (26:28):
I love it.
That's, that's a great website.
Niels Kwakernaak (26:30):
It, it also reflects my desire.
It's my desire to help you writeyour best story.
Yeah.
And, uh, sometimes I, I, I'mpraying for my company and I
mention your best story, and Ithink, wow, I hope that my life
will also be God's best story.
You know, then I mean, my life,our lives, you know, that we as
believers may reflect God's beststory, you know, so that's,
(26:52):
it's, it's a multi-layered, uh,um.
Name you could say.
I,
Vona Johnson (26:57):
I love that.
I really do.
So, as we wrap up thisconversation, and I think we
could go on for a very longtime.
Mm-hmm.
As we wrap up, is there any lastword of advice that you would
give our listeners today?
Anything that you would wannadrive home before they, they
take off?
Niels Kwakernaak (27:17):
Yeah.
I think what I.
I had a whole list of, of thingsI, had wanted to say, but I, but
I think the most important thingis it's there to be authentic.
I think that is what's anybodywho reads your work wants is
they want to read about aperson, somebody who's not
(27:37):
hiding, uh, be behind difficultwords or, theories or, or who is
not presenting the subject froma distance, but who is really
speaking about everything fromtheir own experiences, from
their own feelings, so thatpeople who read your work will
really read a person's, story.
And yeah, that's, that.
(27:59):
That's it.
Authenticity is super important.
Vona Johnson (28:02):
Well, it is, and I think, you know, we have.
Our world in general has thistendency to wanna polish things
up and make'em pretty before wepresent them.
And what I hear you saying isdon't, don't make that your
focus.
Niels Kwakernaak (28:17):
No.
Focus on presenting your storyas powerfully as possible, but
be very vulnerable, uh, in whatyou, uh, what you say.
I think that is, that'svulnerability and that is, that
is the way to people's heartsand indeed to, to.
To present a better version ofyourself.
It's, it's not helping anybody.
(28:40):
Right.
Vona Johnson (28:42):
Well, and I, I, I think that's great advice for
whether we're writing our storyor having a conversation or, or
anything that we do.
Just be ourselves and be, bevulnerable and, yeah, I love
that.
And, and I'll bring it all theway back to the beginning of the
conversation.
There are times when.
(29:04):
We don't need to bring the wholedump truck.
Right,
Niels Kwakernaak (29:08):
right.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
That's, that's one of the thingstoo, uh, one of my main focal
points when I, when I coach, isfigure out what do you want to
say and exclude everything thatdoes not, that does not have to
do with this main message, thismain thesis that you're trying
to, uh, to bring across.
So learn to exclude things.
(29:30):
Learn to really.
To pinpoint what you want to sayand make sure that every chapter
that you write works to conveythat one message.
Um, because readers can getlost, right?
Literally, they can becompletely lost in, uh, in a
book that, well, actually, whenpeople say, I got lost in that
book, they often mean somethingpositive.
(29:52):
I mean, that they just don'tknow anymore where it's going.
You know?
Hmm.
Um, and that is, uh, I thinkdanger number one, when you
start writing without a plan.
So make sure that you know whatyou're gonna say and then create
a plan as to how to get there sothat your reader knows that
they're in good hands.
Vona Johnson (30:12):
I think that is excellent advice and a really
great place to end thisconversation.
Niels, I just wanna thank you somuch for taking the time out of
your busy day and now thatyou're wrapping up your busy
day.
But anyway, thank you so muchfor, for sharing this, this
wisdom.
I'm excited to continue to learnand grow, in my writing with
(30:34):
you.
So thank you so much.
Take care.
Niels Kwakernaak (30:36):
My pleasure and good luck with your own
writing and with your fiction.
If you have any questions, thenyou know where to find me.
Vona Johnson (30:44):
I do.
Thank you.
Niels Kwakernaak (30:45):
God bless you.
Bye-bye.
So I'm curious, what stories areyou thinking that you maybe
should write down?
Is God nudging you in thatdirection?
I encourage you to put intopractice some of the tips and
strategies that Niels offeredtoday and see if God won't help
you write that story.
If he brought you to it, he willhelp you get it down on paper
(31:08):
and who knows whose lives youwill touch by writing down those
stories that he has laid on yourheart and those messages, that
inspiration to help others knowthat they can trust him and lean
on him.
So I just wanna thank you forstopping by today.
I hope you'll come back in acouple of weeks.
We're gonna take a little bitdifferent approach and start
(31:28):
talking about how we can finishwell as we near retirement.
What does it look like to wrapthings up nicely and finish
well?
I hope you'll come back forthat.
In the meantime, I pray thatyou'll always, always engage
your faith, live your more inthis beautiful time of
courageous retirement.
God bless.
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