36. Beyond the Money: Finding Purpose and Adventure in Retirement | A Courageous Retirement Panel Discussion - Courageous Retirement: Answer God's Call to MORE!

Episode Transcript
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Vona Johnson (00:00):
Retirement is one of those things we dream about

(00:02):
throughout our work life.
If you have a retirement plan,you've been working towards that
magic date for years.
Now if you're like me, thecloser you get the scarier the
concept gets.
Am I gonna have enough money?
What am I gonna do with my time?
Am I really gonna have apurpose?
Wil I still have an identitythat means something to me.
These are all things that westruggle with.

(00:24):
I recently had the opportunityto sit down with host Michael
Fritzius and we created aconversation around how
retirement is about so much morethan the money.
So the five of us friends arejust sitting down to visit
about.
Our purpose in retirement, we'regonna talk about the financial
aspect of it, and we're alsogonna talk about travel and how

(00:44):
that can be an exciting part ofretirement.
I really hope you'll join usbecause it is a fun and engaging
conversation.
Look forward to seeing youthere.

Speaker (00:53):
Do you fear?
What lies beyond retirement?
What if it's a gateway to a lifefilled with purpose, meaning,
and adventure rather than anend?
Discover peace and fulfillmentas you boldly enter this new
chapter in CourageousRetirement, a Christian podcast.
I'm your host, author, and coachVona Johnson.
Let's get started.

Michael Fritzius (01:12):
This is more than money, how to prepare for a
retirement in a way thatmatters.
I think Vona and I and everybodyelse that's a panelist on here
can agree it's more than justaccruing a bunch of money and
nibbling on it until the day youdie.
It's like, how do you, how doyou build a retirement that
actually lasts and makes alegacy?
So I'm gonna go ahead andintroduce the first of the three

(01:34):
panelists.
We're gonna kick things off withMiss Amanda Hietter.
So Amanda and I have beenfriends for at least a little
bit, and I think we know how wemet.
We probably met at a networkingmeeting or, you know, bumped
into each other at a Panera,something like that.
But she's in the travel space.
She runs a business calledAcross the Horizon, travel.
And she is a massive expert,I'll say Maven, travel Maven.

(01:57):
She's really good at what shedoes and, if you wanna know how
to build an experience thatmakes for lasting memories in
the years of retirement.
Amanda is the gal, and I'm gonnaswitch over to Vona now.
She's gonna introduce Mike Perez'cause I don't know that guy and
she knows him better than I do.

Well, I'd be lying if I said Mike and I were best
friends, but we met online likeso many of us do anymore.
And, he, he found my profile,reached out.
We hopped on a call and visitedfor a while, and he's a speaker
and an author.
He's a partner in a nationalfinancial organization and he
has, as you can see on thescreen behind him there, he's

(02:37):
got his company called Finishthe Race Strong, which I think
really parallels exactly whatwe're talking here today about,
you know, just retirement.
And it's more than the money.
It's so much more than the moneyand I'm really looking forward
to this conversation.
So welcome Mike.
Thanks for Yeah.
Agreeing to join us today.
Yeah, thank you for inviting me,Vona this is awesome.

Yeah.
Well, and then we've got DanSimon, founder of Dan Simon
Solutions, and he is aleadership coach, and I've
learned quite a bit from him.
This isn't the first time we'vecrossed swords.
Well, that sounds combative.
This is the first time we'veinteracted at this level.
He's been in panel discussionsbefore.
He is taken part in talks, and,you know, he's just an all

(03:19):
around good guy.
He's got such a, a good nature.
But it's the, it's the, the deepleadership, like when you work
with him, you can feel you're ingood hands.
Like if you're, if you'rewanting to learn how to be an
awesome leader, if you want toleave an awesome legacy for your
family, for your employees, he'san excellent guy to have in your
court.

(03:39):
I wanna welcome Dan to thepanel.
I'll kick us off with the firstquestion, which is gonna be for
Amanda and Dan both.
So get ready.
So, Amanda, this question is foryou first.
Both of you work with people whoare stepping into a new chapter
in life or leadership.

(04:00):
So how do you help them movepast fear and uncertainty into
clarity?
About what's next?
Amanda, over to you.

Amanda Hietter (04:09):
So my niche is working with coaches who want to
scale their businesses throughhosting retreats.
And the way that I help themfind clarity is we talk about
what their vision is for theretreat and we kind of go from
there.
So dive into what the experienceis going to entail, and then I
have multiple questions that wejust continue down that path to

(04:32):
where we're niching it down tosomething that's going to be a
very, very cool experience forthe attendees themselves.

Awesome.
Very, very cool.
Dan, same question.
How do you get people to comeout the other side of fear and
uncertainty so that they can,you know, move forward with
awesomeness?

Dan Simon (04:50):
So my work is really with kind of two different
client avatars, I suppose.
Right?
You could, you could saymajority of my work having been
a lifetime educator at thesecondary level is adolescents
that are entering the phase ofchoosing vocation, college of
career.
And I also spend quite a bit oftime working with military

(05:14):
students in particular becauseof the the, the challenges
there.
And, and what I find is thatwhen you're talking about
uncertainty about what's next, Iknow we're talking retirement,
but I want to give a perspectiveon this'cause I think it, it
overlaps.
There's the, the idea of putputting it off, right?
What happens is we put it, weput off the, the, the.
Task too often.

(05:34):
I'll think about it later.
I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, youknow, I'll wait out plenty of
time to think about that.
And so when you kind oftranslate that onto adults that
I work with, many of them aretransitioning out of the
military.
It's the same kind of questionslike you, you're just used to
doing things a certain way.
You kind of doing it that wayfor a long time.
You're comfortable there.

(05:56):
So a little bit of it is, isasking some uncomfortable
questions.
It's about trying to understand,like, I've thought about this,
but it's never really been anoption.
It's something, but I've neverreally knew how to do that.
And so starting to engage inthose conversations early to me
is what really helps you.
When the time comes, when youget there you're more prepared,
more confident in being able todo that.

Beautiful, beautiful.
Asking the hard questions earlyand often.
Very cool.
Vona, what's the next questionon the docket my dear?

Dan Simon (06:25):
Actually, I hope you don't mind, but I'm just gonna
say Dan, I love that.
And what I love about it is whenI'm talking to people that are
kinda like, I don't know,retirement, and it seems so big
and everything, a lot of times Itake'em back to, what did you
wanna do when you were a kid?
What did you love?
Because sometimes we skip overthat when we get forced into
these pockets that we think wehave to do.
So that's cool.
Yeah.

(06:45):
So the next question for both ofyou is, how does building
community, whether throughtravel or leadership
development, help people thrivein retirement?
And let's time, this time, let'sstart with Dan.
Well, when my book eventuallygets written you can ask my wife
about that one.
She's cracking the whip and I'mjust not responding well.

(07:05):
But yeah, the the title of thebook is actually going to be,
not perfect, just perfecttogether.
And, and the nature is thatwe're not meant to do life
alone.
Right?
We're not to, you know, we werecreated to do things in
community.
And so I think that the idea of,that community, who are the

(07:26):
people around you that are the,the, that that press you, right?
But in a loving way.
Who are the people who are gonnahelp you challenge?
'cause oftentimes, right, wehave this.
It's kind of a designed humilityand we just don't think we're
good enough to do that, or wejust don't think that that's not
really what I've been, you know,I like doing that, but I'm not
really all that good at it, orwhatever the, the case may be.

(07:47):
You need the people around youwho you, who've surrounded you
your whole life, whetherprofessionally, personally
through ministry to be able tosay, no.
When I'm around you, you justmake me feel this way.
Or when I talk to you, I justhear things that I don't hear
from anybody else.
And so those are the people thatyou need to always have around

(08:07):
you so that when you're startingagain to think about what might
next, those are the people whocan reinforce like either, yes,
I think that's the right lane,or, well, that's not the gifting
that I think you have.
I think it might be maybe morethis way.
So that's the value ofsurrounding yourself with that
community.

Love it.
Thank you, Amanda.
Same question.

Yeah, so I, my, I personally love putting
together group trips and thereason I do that is because I am
a single woman and I wannatravel with other people.
So especially for retirees, andsometimes I even think of women
or men that are widowed,traveling in a group is so key
because the people that you getto meet are usually people that

(08:51):
have a sense of adventure.
And when you are getting readyto retire, surrounding yourself
with people that maybe have amindset that's a little bit
different than others.
Because I know personally peoplethat travel internationally have
a totally different mindset thanpeople that try that stay within
the US, so getting to connectwith those types of people and
maybe thinking of ideas outsidethe box.

(09:12):
For me, I became a travel agentbecause I never wanna retire.
Technically.
Like when I retire, I'll stillbe working this business.
So maybe when you are retiring,I always say retire, but then
you need to have a purposeoutside of that.
So when you're traveling withthese people that are thinking
outside the box, going to theseplaces like Aruba, Costa Rica,

(09:33):
Alaska, whatever it might be,they may give you an idea of,
Hey, this is a way that I canretire, but then I can still
maybe make a little bit of extraincome or get involved in a
ministry or get involved inchurch with something I never
thought I could do.
So being a part of a communitythat travels together will
really help them think outsidethe box.

Hmm.
Nice.
Thank you.
Love it.
Love it, love it.
Back

to you, Fritz.

All right.
So Amanda and Dan, in yourexperience, what's one
overlooked non-financial factorthat can make or break someone's
post career fulfillment?
And we'll go with Amanda firstthis time.

Ooh, that's a tough one.
Honestly not like thinkingahead.
That can definitely make orbreak you if you're not planning
ahead when it comes toretirement financially, and I
know this is non-financialfactor, but planning ahead with
that there, that is somethingthat you definitely need to do.
And what I mean by that is ifyou're putting away like banking

(10:40):
away, different places that youwanna travel to, for me, I have
this huge long bucket list.
And so when I look at thatbucket list, I'm planning, okay,
maybe in like 2028 I'm gonna gohere.
So planning ahead and for thingslike that can definitely help
you be able to be more preparedfor your future travels.

Beautiful, beautiful.
Dan, same question.
What's a, what's a non-financialfactor that can make or break
someone's post careerfulfillment?

Dan Simon (11:09):
Well, I, I.
I, I think it's it's purpose,right?
I mean, we were, you know, we'vealready heard that come up here
today.
I mean, you, you know, when wework, we usually, we work
because we know we're going tomake an impact in some way,
right?
And then when we stop working.
The question is, well now how amI gonna, how am I gonna make an

(11:29):
impact?
And, and, and who am I gonnamake an impact on?
Right.
So like for me, you know, the,the being in 30, almost 35 years
in education, adolescenteducation, like I, I, I retired
from my job, but I'm stillimpacting adolescents in the
work that I do because I feellike that's where God has
designed me to be.
And, and that's, that's mypurpose.
But it's a different way now,right?

(11:51):
He is kind of molded me into apath where I'm still having an
impact, but a different kind ofimpact.
But I think you have to havealignment with, with your
purpose and what that is.
What are your, what are yourskillset?
What are your strengths?
What are your passions?
But ultimately, when you're notdoing it for a paycheck
necessarily, what are you doingit for?

(12:11):
And so to me, that's the placewhere the purpose is the most
important.
Non-financial you know, kind ofmotivation or fulfillment in
what you're gonna dopost-retirement.
You know, and it may not, youmay not find it right away.
Mm-hmm.
Sometimes you're gonna trythings and you're gonna be like,
yeah, this, this isn't it.
So it's, it's when you reallyfeel like that, yeah, this is,

(12:32):
this is it, you know, andconfident that God's led me
there.
I, I think that's, to me that'swhat it's

awesome.
You know, you hit on a goodpoint too, because sometimes
people shy away from trying tofind their purpose.
'cause they think, well, what ifI try something and I waste my
time?
And it's not actually the thing,Hey, that's data you didn't have
before.
You didn't know that that wasn'tgonna be the thing.
But now that, you know, that'snot it, that kind of helps
narrow things down.
Anything that's similar to thatis gonna be a hard No.

(12:59):
There's like whole swaths ofthings that you can just drop on
the floor.
It's amazing.
I, I

Dan Simon (13:03):
would just add to that, and, and I, I know I'm
over my time, but I'm, I'mborrowing the 30 seconds Amanda
left.
When you talk about, it's thesame thing with a, with
adolescents starting thatconversation in high school.
Right.
Trying things, experiencingthings to say either, wow, I'm
glad I did that'cause I lovethat.
Or I'm glad I did that'cause Idon't want anything to do with
that for the rest of my life.

(13:24):
So it's experiencing andfinding, and when you find that
alignment, you just, you know.
Yep.

You know, when my son was in college, he kept
taking like a course line andhe'd be like no, I hate that.
And I kept saying, you knowwhat?
Sometimes it's better to knowwhat you don't want than you do
want.

Yep.
Same thing in retirement.
Mm-hmm.
It's very valuable.
Very valuable.
Well, we got another pairing ofquestion receivers here, Amanda
and Michael.
So, Vona, what's the firstquestion on the docket for those
two?

So you guys both focus on strategic planning.
Amanda, you do for Michael, youfor finances and purpose.
How do you help people dreambig.
I love this one.
How do you help people dream bigabout retirement without letting
the fear of cost?
Hold them back.
You might be speaking directlyto me, or maybe not, I don't

(14:13):
know.
But we're gonna start with Mikefirst, just to give him for,
he's gotta be itching to talk.
So go Mike.

Michael Perez (14:19):
Yeah, I've been just kind of sitting here
listening.
I, I, I just had a thoughtabout, you know, like I say to
my daughter all the time thatnothing is failure, it's just
information.
And it shows you where you gonext.
I think, I've, I've actually gota, a book sitting right across
from you over there called DreamBig.

(14:40):
And I think one of theunfortunate things about life is
that as we age, we dream less.
I mean, that's been myobservation and we forget what
it was like to dream as a youngkid.
And so one of the things thatI've always tried to do in the
people that I engage with isjust get them to dreaming again

(15:03):
and as they head into thisseason of life, do it without
restraints.
Start there.
Just, just start dreaming and,and figuring out what you might
like to do in the future.
One of my favorite questions toask people in this season of
life is, what would you like todo in this life before your time

(15:24):
is up?
Because I think that becomes thekind of the foundation for what
will become kind of the bucketlist.
And a lot of people have neverbeen asked that question, so
sometimes they don't really knowhow to answer it.
But I do think it's a goodquestion.
The other observation is I thinkso many people act like they
have so much time in this secondhalf of life.

(15:48):
And in one of my workshops, I,there, I, there's a book that I
refer to called the, the FourthQuarter of Your Life.
I can't remember the rest of thetitle.
It's like the fourth quarter ofyour life Embracing what Matters
most.
And you know, a lot of people,when they think about the
future, they think about, well,I've got a hundred years, right?
So I've got plenty of time.
And what they fail to realize isthe average life expectancy is

(16:10):
80, 35% of the folks make it to90 and only 1% of the folks make
it to a hundred.
So, they can't act like theyhave lots of time.
And I always encourage peopleto, to live with a sense of
urgency.
One of my favorite quotes isoutta the movie the Shaw Shank
Redemption.
Where Andy Fra said, you eitherget busy living or you get busy

(16:32):
dying.
Yep.
And so we try to inspire peopleto, to get busy living.
The other thing is, I, I don'twant people to have regrets.
I've seen too many people, theyget too far down the line and
then they look back and they go,ah, I, I didn't do what I really
wanted to do when I had thechance.
And so I, I encourage people,I'm like, get after it.

(16:53):
Go do it now.
Dream big, make things happen.
'cause you don't know what thefuture's gonna hold.
And obviously this all has to becoordinated with the money.
'cause you can't just dowhatever you want, but you start
with the dreaming.
Thank you.
Amanda, do you remember thequestion?

Yes, I do.
I'll try to make it short, whichI'm good at doing.
So on, what's really awesome isthat you're asking the question
about what do we do to help ourclients dream big?
And actually the slogan forAcross the Horizon travel is
dream big and travel bigger.
So we, when we're working withour clients, we wanna find out

(17:31):
those bucket list destinationsthat they want to go to.
And usually it's places thatmaybe seem just a little bit too
far out of reach, like Singaporeor Japan or Australia, like on
the other side of the world, ifyou live in the United States.
And so when I'm talking to myclients and they're saying,
okay, how much do you think thisis gonna cost?

(17:52):
And I give them a number andthey're like, oh my gosh, we
don't have that.
That's not put aside.
I talk with them about thestrategy of opening up a travel
savings account.
And if you are a W2 employee,you can actually coordinate with
your bank to have money takenout before that money even hits
your bank account and put intothat travel savings account.
And you're not able to touch it,I believe for a year, two years,

(18:13):
whatever you set it for, so thatyou can use that as a deposit or
even to pay off your whole tripdepending on how much money
you're putting in for that.
So I always find that to besomething that is key when it
comes to preparing andstrategizing for a trip that
might seem a little bit out ofreach for my client.

That sounds like a great strategy.
Thank you.
You're welcome.

Awesome.
Well I heard the term bucketlist come up a little bit ago,
so how can intentional travel orbucket list experiences actually
strengthen someone's legacy?
And Mike, since you used.
The B term, the B word bucketlist before I'm gonna come to
you first, so you got it.

(18:57):
Am I the, am

I the only, am I the only one that cried at that
movie?
Oh my God,

it was good.

I love the word legacy.
One of the, one of the questionsthat I ask people a lot is, what
do you wanna be remembered for?
A lot of people don't get askedthat question much, but I think
most of us would prefer to, beremembered as somebody that live
life to the fullest.

(19:24):
I always encourage people to bea role model for those around
them, their family members,their friends.
I know I have at the season oflife where I am, I see a lot of
my peers kind of packing it inand kind of taking the, the, the
safe route for the rest of theirlives.
And so I try to be inspirationto them that you can live out

(19:48):
these bucket list things.
And the other thing that I thinkis really cool about it is just
having incredible memories tolook back on number one with the
people that you experienced itwith.
But it's always fun to, whenyou're in mixed company to tell
stories about all these greatadventures that you've had.
So I think living this out canbe a really cool part of one's

(20:14):
legacy.

Beautiful.
Beautiful.
Amanda, over to you, intentionaltravel bucket list experiences,
how do you think that actuallystrengthens someone legacy?

So as a mom, I have wanted in the past to take
my children on trips to placesthat were on my bucket list, and
I actually got the pleasure ofdoing that.
Not one time, not two times, butactually four times.
And it's, I'm still continuingto do that.
I have made it to be somethingwhere each and every year I take

(20:45):
my kids on a new trip to a newdestination.
And as I look back on thoseexperiences, I think about how
at Christmas time, we all giveeach other gifts.
My kids cannot remember whatgift I gave to them last year.
Now they can, they still talkabout the experience that we
took back in 2022 when we wentto Mexico and that it was our
first time as older kids beingoutside of the country.

(21:09):
So I'm creating a legacy thatway with my children.
And if you think about it with.
Doing like a multi-generationaltrip with mom and dad, grandma
and grandpa, aunts and uncles,cousins, siblings, everybody
getting together and maybehaving a cruise experience that
can build a legacy in itselfwhere maybe the young nieces and
nephews are seeing their auntfor the first time dancing on

(21:32):
the dance floor.
And that's something thatthey're gonna remember forever
of like, and Amanda was so muchfun on the dance floor.
I'm gonna remember that for therest of my life.
So honestly, doing a grouptrips, taking your kids on
trips, that is the perfect wayto continue your legacy as a
parent, sibling, mother, father,whatever it might be.

Yep.
A hundred percent heard there.
And I think too, it's like whatare the chances that a family
that travels like that on aregular basis is not gonna
travel the future, generationsaren't gonna stay at home and be
a bunch of home bodies.
I, we'll just have a staycation.
If they're not gonna do that,they're not gonna do that at
all.
So, awesome, Vona.
What's the next question?

(22:11):
For Amanda and Michael.

Yeah, I love this.
And it, I mean, you guys havekind of touched on it already
yeah.
But I like how Fritz expandedthis.
So it's like, what role do theseshared experiences that you guys
have already touched on, familytrips, mission travel, et
cetera, what role do they playin shaping a God honoring
retirement?
Mm-hmm.
And I love that, bringing itinto how can we honor God

(22:35):
through that?
So Amanda, I'm gonna start withyou.

Yeah.
So one thing that.
Across the horizon travel does,is we actually put together
faith-based trips every year.
Next year we're going to Greeceand I'm really excited about
that.
And I have incorporated in afull day of us giving back to
the community where we're eithergonna go into an orphanage, a
school or a church, whatever itmight be, when it gets closer to

(23:00):
that time of travel for what isneeded most.
And so if you are someone that'son the verge of retiring and
you're like, what can I do tostill continue to grow God's
kingdom?
You can easily do that throughmissions, trips, through travel,
doing like the bringing the bookof acts to life, like we're what
we're gonna be doing in October.

(23:21):
So.
Honestly, travel in itself canbecome something so much more.
A lot of people forget about thefact where you can have that
fun, what we call like personaltravel, but then incorporate in
some kind of ministry ormissions while you're there to
give back to the community.
And that is a way really tohonor God through your
retirement if you're gonna beretiring, and most people say

(23:44):
when they retire, I'm gonnatravel.
Well incorporate giving back.
And that is the way that you'regonna be able to share God's
love, be able to witness toothers, and potentially bring
people to Christ.
And that is one of the mostamazing things you can do when
you're traveling.
Right?

Yeah.
Oh, I love that.
And I, I have not forgotten I'm,I got my, I got, I got my
passport, so I'm getting there.
Yay.
I'm so excited.
Vona.
Mike, do you remember thequestion?
How, how can you that I

remember the question?
I, man, I, I love what Amandawas just saying.
That is great stuff.
And I think I, I mean.
In this season of life.
The purpose of all of this isto, to really create memories
and to create bonding.
And I think a lot of people whenthey think of especially like

(24:32):
travel and some of these otherthings that, you know, it's all
about having a good time andthat, but, you know, number one,
you, you get to see the peopleyou're with maybe in a different
light because you're in adifferent, set of circumstances.
But I, I love the, the conceptof going on vacation and

(24:53):
actually serving.
We have actually as a family,we, we took a, a group of
college students we've actuallyvacationed and served down in
Guatemala.
And man, those are really richtrips and they're god honoring
and it's something I think.

(25:14):
Really, I, I've actually seen alot of people that are retired
doing that sort of thing.
The other thing that I thinkwould be very God honoring in
retirement is I love it when Isee grandparents, taking their
grandchildren on trips withouttheir parents.
And, you know, exposing them tothe things that they may not

(25:36):
have been exposed to.
Obviously it's a way to, to helpout the, their parents
financially by stepping in anddoing things like that.
So, yeah, that you can be reallyintentional with, with these
shared experiences to, createsome really cool bonding and

(25:58):
bonding experiences andmemories.
Love it.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Back to you, Fritz.

Awesome.
So this one's for Dan and Mike.
Both of you guide people todiscover their calling.
How does that process change forsomeone approaching or already
in retirement?
So, Dan, go ahead and come offmute and rap at us.

Dan Simon (26:20):
Well, I don't think, honestly, I don't think it's any
different from other phases inlife.
Right?
That's why I say, you know what,I'm, I'm, I'm grateful for the
opportunity to work withadolescents who are probably in
that really that firsttransition right in life.
Trying to decide what they wannapursue, what they wanna do
that's fulfilling.
And then, you know, when we getinto adulthood, we're.

(26:41):
Constantly pivoting.
Right.
You know, it's, it's eithermaybe for some it's the flavor
of the month.
For others it's, you know, I'llstick it out for a long time.
But when we get to this pointabout retirement, I think you,
it's always a matter of goingback and saying what has, what
has brought you fulfillment,what has brought you joy?
What has, you know, what has thething that you haven't been able

(27:01):
to do that you've been wishingyou had more time to do?
What is the thing that you feellike you're really good at that
you haven't been able todevelop?
You know, playing the piano,art, you know, whatever it may
be.
I think it's the same kind ofquestion that you're asking a
teenager, and it's the same kindof thing.
You're asking somebody whoserved in the military for 20
years, it's, you know, comingout now and has no idea what

(27:23):
their skills and their passionsare.
And I think when you get to thestage of retirement after
working in a career for so long,you, you, you get to a place
where that's a, that's just aquestion you've gotta be able to
ask.
So I don't think it's reallythat different of a question at
what I would say those threeparticular times of life where
transition is, is happening.

That's good.
That makes it easier toremember.
You don't have to remember threethings, you just gotta remember
one.
That's right.
That's awesome.
I love it.
Mike, same question, sir.

Yes.
I would, I would say dealingwith calling in this season of
life relative to the otherseasons of life is, this is
probably even more challengingbecause I feel like, a lot of
our calling early on in life isconnected to our families and

(28:14):
our jobs, and it's just kind oflaid out pretty naturally for
us.
And then all of a sudden you,you don't have that and you're
like, okay, what am I beingcalled to do?
And.
I always tell people I don'tthink we're unlike the secular
messaging, I don't think we'rebeing called to a life of 100%

(28:34):
leisure.
I think leisure is important.
But I do think we're beingcalled to something more than
that.
You know, it talks about inEphesians 2:10 that you were
called for good works.
And I always tell people itdoesn't say that all bets are
off once you're retired.
You're supposed to be doing goodworks through and through.
So I think this is a big resetand I think you really gotta

(28:57):
take an inventory of what haveyour, what are your, your
current talents what are youpassionate about?
Where do you see opportunitiesto, to, to make that happen?
Share a quick story with you.
I was listening to a podcast.
He had a guy on there, he's inhis early eighties.
He's an executive coach andmentor, and he's still doing it.

(29:17):
And he wrote a book calledDecade by Decade, and it was
just based on some observationsthat he made.
So he went through the twenties,the thirties, the forties, the
fifties.
He said the most productivedecade from his observation was
the sixties, second was theseventies.
Third was the fifties.
Had nothing to do with working80 hours a week.

(29:37):
It had everything to do withimpact, influence, wisdom.
And so I'm constantly telling mypeers that your best days can be
ahead of you.
That it's not time to, to packit in that you can do some
amazing stuff.

Well, that's super encouraging for me'cause
I'm in my forties and it didn'teven make it in his top three.
I'm already feeling like I'mpretty efficient with my time,
man.
An 80-year-old Fritz is going tobe practically unstoppable.
I'm excited when I get to belevel 80, I'm gonna be like, get
outta the way.

He did.
He did say the caveat though isyou gotta stay healthy.
You gotta stay healthy.
Oh, there's that.
Okay.
Yeah,

yeah.
All right.
But you're running runningmarathons.
You're good.
I'm running marathons.
I mean, I think that's gottacount for something.
So, Vona, over to you.
What's the next question?

At first, I wanted just say, you know, Fritz's,
that one of the things that Ireally try to hit with people is
it's never too early to startfinishing well.

Mm-hmm.

And think about the impact that you're making,
where you are, and how you canbuild on that to transition in
that next phase.
So Yep.
You're, you're at the perfectplace right now with this
conversation about retirement.
Yes.
So next, I'm just building like

a fiend over here.
Yep.

Well, I just appreciate the opportunity that
you brought us to have thisconversation.
So the next question for Dan andMike are how can people
integrate their spiritualcalling into both their use of
time and their financialplanning?
And let's start with Dan thistime.

Dan Simon (31:07):
Yeah.
So.
Time, time and planning.
I, and to me it's, it's always amatter of, of, you know, how do
we, how do we discern, right?
How do we discern that it isfrom God?
How do we know that there's aspiritual element to it?
And that we're not really justmotivated by money or, or what
we want.
And that's, you know, that's,that's a really important thing.

(31:28):
I think as we get older, we haveto be really careful'cause we're
getting pulled in a lot ofdifferent directions and, you
know, my wife will tell me this,I'm guilty of this.
Right.
It sometimes it's, it's, it'ssquirrel, right.
It's the shiny new thing.
Right.
And be like, I didn't, but Ididn't even finish that yet.
Right.
And she'll tell us, she'llremind me like when, like.
Are you really ready?
You wanna really take onsomething else that you're not

(31:50):
gonna finish, right?
Why don't you finish, you know,one of these big dreams that you
have, one of these big thingsthat, that you have laid out in
front of you.
So I think when you're, whenyou're thinking about setting
aside money, I thought Amandadid a really great job of
talking about some of that.
If travel is something that youwant if, if if leaving the
legacy, you know, financialstability to your children is
something whatever that is, Ithink you just, you have to

(32:11):
bring it before the Lord andsay, Lord, if, if this is really
from you, if you're gonna honorthis, then just give me clarity
in that, you know, is this thingthat I'm about to get into, is
this from you or not?
And then as this kind of getsinto the last question I'll
answer as well, but to me it'sabout you need the clarity from
God, but you also need people tohelp you with that clarity.
And so I'll save that for thethird question.

(32:33):
Sounds good.
Thank you, Mike.
Same question.

Yeah.
The word that jumps out for me,especially when it comes to
time, is the word intentional.
My observation has been, mostpeople are not super intentional
with their time.
And one of the things I workwith a lot of people in the
second half of life, and one ofthe things I hear all the time
is Mike, I don't, I don't knowwhere the time goes.

(32:57):
It just, I feel busier now thanI, than I was when I was
working.
And yet when they look back,they don't really have a lot to
show for it.
So I feel like especially ifyou're gonna live out your
calling intentionality is so, soimportant as you move forward.
The other thing that I hear ispeople say, well, I probably

(33:19):
don't need as much structure inmy life now that I'm moving into
this season of life.
And the reality is you probablyneed it more than you've ever
needed it, because once againtime can get away from you.
And then as far as the.
The financial piece, I think,yeah, depending on what you're
called to do, you could beimpacted financially.

(33:40):
I mean, you may be required tomove, you may be required to be
more generous.
You, you know, there's, you maybe required to adjust your
lifestyle.
So be careful what you wish foron the calling because it can
impact you financially.
And I'm not suggesting that's abad thing, it just means that

(34:01):
you may have to make someadjustments.

Yeah.
Yeah.
I like that.
In fact, yeah, I could go onthat forever and I won't, but I
will say that my, my, I got sowrapped up in the worldly.
Cause for, you know, you gottamake more money, you gotta make
more money.
And I feel like the lesson thatGod has taught me in retirement
is I have already provided foryou.
Go do those things that I'veasked you to do.

(34:25):
And, and that's, we, it's soeasy to get caught in that trap.
Yeah.
Fritz has asked me to ask thenext set of questions because
he's gotten some backgroundnoise where he's at.
So I'm going to go and we'regonna start with you this time,
Mike.
What are some ways retirees canguard against drifting into
aimlessness?
And I think you've just startedto talk about that a little bit

(34:46):
once their career chaptercloses.

Yeah.
I think very, you, you gotta bevery intentional with your time.
I think about that a lot.
The other thing is, a lot ofpeople today are very isolated
and so I think community, Iknow.
As I get older, that's becomingmore and more important to me.

(35:10):
But you gotta stay in community.
But I also think that you gottapay attention to who you allow
in your sphere.
I mean, we, we, over the years,we get pulled in all these
directions and meet all thesepeople, and I just find that you
get into this season, I thinkyou gotta be very selective

(35:30):
about who you, you allow.
And I always say to my daughteryou will be the average of the
five people that you hang outthe most with.
So pay attention to who you'rehanging out with.
I don't think this is a new one,but I think continual growth and
learning is very, veryimportant.
I think a lot of people feellike in this season, why don't,
I don't really have to growanymore?

(35:50):
I, what?
What's there to learn?
I don't, and I think to me,you'd be one of the richest
seasons of your life.
As far as growing and learning.
Talked a little bit about thestructure, you know, around your
time.
And then I think Dan had broughtthis up earlier.
I think where a lot of peopleget sideways is whatever their

(36:13):
setup is, they just can't findmeaning and purpose in it.
And as I like to say to people,just because you're retired
doesn't mean the meaning andpurpose equation goes away.
It probably becomes even moreimportant because you realize
you're in this last season oflife and you know, you want it
to, you want it to count forsomething.

(36:35):
And so I think a lot of peoplestruggle with that.
And you know, that's where weall have to put in the work to,
to make sure that there'smeaning and purpose in our life.

Yeah.
Excellent point.
Thank you, Dan.

Dan Simon (36:47):
Well, not surprisingly, I I second
everything Mike said there.
I mean, that's, you know, therewas some real great wisdom.
I, I, I think for me, I wouldjust add, I would add two
elements.
I would add accountability andvulnerability.
Right?
Mike talked about community.
I think we have to have peoplewho're actually accountable to
for it.
And again, I, I just mentionedmy, my wife.
I, I'm grateful In this season,I, I've become probably far

(37:09):
more, willing.
And that's where thevulnerability comes in.
Willing to say, you know, tohear you know, what do you think
of this?
And to say, well, you know, andshe asks great questions and
she'll sometimes push back onthings that I might be looking
at.
And I might, you know, my eyesmight be wide open and it'd be
just like, that's the ninththing that you're, you know,
you're taking, and do you reallywanna be able to do that?

(37:31):
And will you really fulfill yourpurpose if you spread yourself
so thin?
Right.
So I think we have to have thosepeople that we're accountable to
in that community, right?
Lots of people kind of withinput, but who's gonna actually
hold our feet to the fire?
And then, and, and with thatcomes that vulnerability.
You have to be willing to hearit.
When somebody is willing to kindof hold your feet to the fire,

(37:54):
it burns right at times.
And so you have to be willing tohave those people in your life
where you're not gonna walk awayand reject it because it's not
what you wanna hear.
You're actually willing toaccept it and say, thank you for
that, because I think you justsaved me from going down a
rabbit hole that might havetaken my time and my resources
away.
So so yeah.
So I second Mike and I would addthose two pieces to it.

(38:17):
Nice.
Yeah.
Wonderful.
Wonderful.
Are you, are you with us again,Fritz?

I am.
Our neighbor had his Corvettegoing and then he, and it just
didn't even go anywhere.
He just ran it for like 15minutes in his garage.
I'm like, okay, that's cool.
He's just gotta blow out thepipes.
Well, the next stage that we'vegot is questions for individual
panelists.
The first one is gonna be forAmanda.
Question I've got for you is youspecialize in group travel, that

(38:42):
fosters connection.
How have you seen travel,transform someone's vision for
the retirement years?

So I'm actually going to talk about my parents
because both of my parents areat that age to retire, and I
recently had the pleasure oftaking each of them on an
international trip.
I took my dad to Turks andCaicos and my mom on an Alaska
cruise.
And after they both came back,it's so funny because my
parents, they have traveled alot throughout their life and

(39:11):
they were like, we're gonna juststay here in our home here in
St.
Louis.
We don't really need to travel.
And then all of a sudden theystarted talking about how they
want to travel more now thatthey're about to retire, which I
think is hilarious that theysaid something different.
And now that I've taken them andtraveling, they're getting that
travel bug again.
So they're actually talkingabout getting an RV and just

(39:33):
traveling the United States andgoing to all 50 states and just
seeing the world.
So honestly, travel can reallytransform you to be like, you
know what?
There's so much out there tosee.
I don't wanna just sit here and.
Be a lump on a log and just notreally do anything effective
with the rest of my life.
Once I retire, this is a chanceto get out into the, into the

(39:53):
world and, and share God's lovewith others.

That's super encouraging.
That's super encouraging.

Love that.

Yeah.

So continuing on with Amanda.
What's one creative travel ideayou've seen that made retirement
feel more purposeful?

Yes.
So this is actually a part of myniche.
I currently work with coachesand I help them create another
stream of income through hostingretreats.
And I have seen coaches that areclose to that retirement age
where they're starting to talkabout travel and getting closer
to their clients or customersthrough an in-person experience.

(40:36):
And that is in retreats.
So when you host a retreat thatgives you a chance to get closer
to your clientele, it gives youa chance to pour into them, give
back to them.
And I love working with kingdompreneurs people that love the
Lord.
And so a lot of the timesthey're incorporating in
worship, bible study,meditation, things of that

(40:57):
nature, and that in itself, weare put here on this earth for
one purpose and one purpose ofall it is to grow God's kingdom.
And so when I'm helping thesepeople.
Create these transformationalexperiences, and then they come
back to me and say, oh my gosh,this person was drifting away
from God, and they now have sucha strong, powerful relationship

(41:18):
with God through this retreat.
It is so empowering for both ofus.

It's amazing.
Yes.
Thank you.

Awesome.
So Amanda, how can retirees maketravel a regular life giving
habit without it becomingfinancially or logistically
stressful?

That's a good question.
I always recommend work with afinancial advisor, especially if
you are maybe in your likethirties or forties and you
haven't really started puttingaway money for retirement.
Because again, back to what Isaid before, a lot of people say
they're gonna travel when theyretire.
So it's really important to havethose funds put away, not just
for your regular day-to-daylife, but also for your travel.

(41:59):
And then for me, I became atravel advisor because I never
wanna retire.
So that's an idea in itself.
You could start a whole newprofession and become a travel
agent, travel for free or superdiscounted.
That in itself could be superfun.
There's so many different thingsyou can do in the travel world
that could make it super simpleand easy for you to travel a lot

(42:20):
more.
Vona and I have actually hadthis discussion, so there is
opportunity out there where youcan still work and be able to
travel for super cheap, free, oreven get paid to travel.

Hmm.
That resonates with me.
'cause I mean, I'm in my fortiesand I feel like I'm never gonna
retire.
'cause I, I keep finding funthings to do that ends up making
money and it's like, I don'tever wanna stop working.
I'm having too much fun.

I feel you on that one.
So.
Yeah.

Well we got Dan up next on the docket.
So what's the first question forDan, my dear?

Dan, you help people with their God-given
calling, which I think iswonderful.
How do you approach thatconversation with someone who
thinks that their calling isreally all tied up into their
career?

Dan Simon (43:04):
I think you, you have to, you have to go back to
scripture.
I mean, you know, the new kindof slogan, I guess I would, I
would say in all my work is, isaround made for more.
Made for more and made for moremeans.
You know, we're, we're alwaysseeking to, to do more for the
kingdom, right?
And so when we look at callingtypes of career, that there's a

(43:26):
season for that.
You know, God called you, gaveyou certain talent, gave you an
ability to make an impact whereyou were.
But what, what, what else isthere?
What are, again, going back tobefore, what are some other
areas that you can make animpact?
And have you taken the time tothink about that?
Just even thinking ofrelationships and other, you
know, have you, have you been avolunteer coach and had an
impact on kids, you know,whatever else it may be.

(43:50):
Just to start looking at outsidethe work, where have you had
impact?
Where have you felt like purposeand, and fulfillment?
And start exploring that.
And that, and then see where Godleads with those doors.
Will he spring those doors wideopen, or will he close those
doors and move you in anotherdirection?

He can be pretty direct about some of that.
Can he?

Dan Simon (44:11):
Mm-hmm.
And slam that door pretty hardin our face at times, right?
Mm-hmm.

Thank you.
Thank you.

I guess that's a sign I shouldn't go this
direction, said the person whojust got their door slammed in
their face.
That's right.
That's right.
So Dan, well, I always

Dan Simon (44:26):
say it this way, Mike, that's kind of related.
I always say it this way, right?
I mean, you know, look, Jonahwas gonna get to Nineva one way
or the other, right?
So he could have, he could havemade the journey, you know,
simple and just been obedient.
Or, you know, you, you get mixedin with the vomit coming out of
the whale's mouth, right?
I mean, but one way or another,that's where he was gonna end
up, right?
So you could choose your path inbeing obedient or not, right?

(44:49):
Which goes into the nextquestion, ask it and I'll, I'll
respond.

He, he has chosen the hard way.
So, Dan, what is one questionyou wish every retiree would ask
themselves before they step awayfrom work?

Dan Simon (45:06):
It's the, i I think that comes down, it's, it's to
the, the why question.
It's, you know, what, why, and,and pros and the pro and con
list, right, is still, it'ssomething you start again, back
in the search for college andcareer and where you wanna go as
an adolescent.
And I don't think it changes asan adult.
What are the pros and cons?
You know, what are the thingsyou have to consider?

(45:27):
And primarily when you look atthose things that are the good
and the bad, which of those aredriven by your kind of, your,
your human interest and your,your, you know, human desire and
which of those are driven bywhat feels truly like a move of
the spirit?
Like, I just can't shake this,right?
I just can't get this outta myhead.
I feel like it's gotta be fromGod.
And the, the thing I wanna pointout about that,'cause I

(45:49):
experienced this, I mean, youtalk about retiring, like I
retired first at age 47, right?
So Vona knows my story, but thatwhat I retired to at that time
was not what God was preparingme for.
What he was preparing me for waswhat was gonna come after that.
But he needed to get me out ofthe comfort zone that I was in.

(46:10):
And so I felt motivated and Ifelt led that this is where the
Lord wants me.
And it wasn't for that season,it was for the season that
followed.
So I think that's where we haveto be able to say, is this, is
this me or is this you Lord?
And sometimes the Lord will say,no, it's from me, but be
patient.
'cause it's, it's not the nowthat I'm really preparing you
for, it's what's next.

Hmm.

I love that.
To me this, this next questionis tied around kind of our
identity and the, what the worldtells us we should be.
But how do faith-based leadersin retirement continue to
influence and serve without atitle?
That title is so big,

Dan Simon (46:46):
And yet it's not.
Right?

Right.
Well, I'm just saying that we'vebeen led to believe it is

Dan Simon (46:51):
right, and yet it's not.
Because the fact is that Godputs people in our lives all the
time.
What are we doing with thepeople that he puts in front of
us every day?
Right?
And, and, and whether that as a,you know, a business component
to it where we're looking to,you know, hire a client or
whether we're looking to, to, tobuild a, you know, our network,
you know, God gives us every dayopportunities to, to serve and

(47:15):
to, you know, to, to, to, Ialways say, right.
I used the, the, the, the famousSaint Augustine, right?
Right.
You know, to preach the gospeland when necessary use words.
Right.
I mean, that becomes the way welive, title or no title.
And so to me, you continue toinfluence and serve by
continuing to serve the peopleand, and be of value to the
people that God puts in front ofyou.

(47:38):
And that's, you know, that's,there's a purpose in that.
And that purpose is bringingpeople and pointing them to, to
him.
So that would be my response tothat.
It, that doesn't require atitle.

Amen.
Okay.
Back to you, Fritz.

Awesome.
So Mike, this one's for you.
These three are for you.
You talk about the five pillarsof a faith-driven retirement.
Which one do people tend tooverlook the most?

Yes.
One thing I wanted to mention,I, a piece of advice I always
give people is don't retire fromsomething, but retire to
something.
I see so many That's nice.
Is that yours?
We probably stole it from thesame person, but I'm always
leery of the person when youtalk to them and they go, yes, I

(48:26):
have one year, 14 days, 36 hoursuntil I retire.
I know that's probably not gonnabe good.
Anyways just so everybody thatlistens to this knows what the
five pillars are, the fivepillars, and we've kind of
touched on some of these is timecalling.

(48:49):
A financial finish or, let meback up.
Maximizing time, discovering,embracing your calling creating
a financial finish line, radicalgenerosity and leaving a lasting
legacy.
So which, which one do peopletend to overlook the most?
I think all of them getoverlooked.
But the one that really jumpsout to me is leave a lasting

(49:11):
legacy.
And I'll tell you why I pickedthat one is because if you look
at the stats in the UnitedStates, two thirds of Americans
have done nothing when it comesto their estate planning.
And so I kind of put two and twotogether and said, well, if
they're not even doing that,then they're probably not giving
a lot of thought to legacy.

(49:33):
And I think a lot of peopledon't want to deal with this.
A lot of people procrastinate onit because it deals with
morbidity and mortality and theydon't really want to think about
it.
It's interesting.
In, in the wealth managementfirm that I'm a partner in, we
created this whole platformcalled estate mapping, which is

(49:54):
unlike anything I've seen in allmy years.
And'cause I try to practice whatI preach.
My wife and I went through theprocess with one of our younger
advisors and it was, it was lifechanging because number one, it,
it, it got my wife and I talkingabout these things.
And there were things that justcame up that even from previous

(50:16):
conversations never came up.
And so I always tell people thatwhen you do this legacy
planning, as painful as it maybe to you it's an act of love
towards your loved ones.
'cause you're basically saying,I love you so much that I just
wanna make sure that everythingis in order and you know, where

(50:38):
I stand when my time is up.

Love it.
Love it.
Awesome.
Over to you, Ms.
Vona

Thank you.
So Mike, how do you help clientsdefine the financial finish line
in a way that feels freeinginstead of restrictive?

Yeah, so one of the pillars is, is kind of a,
kind of a a concept most peoplehaven't heard of, but one of the
pillars is creating a financialfinish line.
I was actually just on anotherpodcast called The Finish Line
Pledge.
These two brothers do that,which is, is really cool.
But the underlying question isthis, when is enough enough?

(51:21):
When is enough enough?
I've met so many people thathave more than enough and I can
prove it to'em mathematically,and they still don't think they
have enough.
And so they live in this stateof stress, in this season of
life.
Which is totally unnecessary.

(51:42):
And what's interesting abouthaving a finish line is that
when you have a finish line, itnaturally will lead to more
contentment in your life becauseyou're like, Hey, I got this.
I'm good.
I'm gonna be fine.
And so when we talk about finishlines, it basically breaks down
into three different things.
Number one, how much will youneed for you or you and your

(52:04):
spouse?
You need to get a handle onthat.
Number two, how much do youwanna leave for your loved ones?
And number three, what are yougonna do with the excess?
And so there's a little bit oftension around all three of
those, but once you get a handleon it, you can get to a
financial finish line and livein a place of much less stress

(52:25):
and much more contentment.

Awesome.

Love it.
Thank you.

Excellent.
Well, the last question we'vegot in this.
Gauntlet of interrogation.
I'm, I'm kidding.
It's, it's been incredibly, it'sbeen incredibly blessing.
It's, it's really good.
So, Mike, last question for you,sir.
What's one story where someonecompletely shifted their
retirement outlook by puttingbiblical principles first?

Yeah, I, I thought I thought about this
question and I've got peoplethat I'm working with that are
in, you know, kind of differentstates of play, but I thought,
you know what, probably the bestexample is my wife and I, I
mean, we are in this, you know,this season that we're talking
about.
And we've been very intentionalwith our time.

(53:16):
We've been very intentional withour, with our calling.
We don't believe in thetraditional retirement.
There's a great quote by a guynamed Mitch Anthony.
He said, retirement is abalancing act between vacation
and vacation.
You know, we're not like, don'tgo have fun.
Don't go vacation, don't, youknow, don't travel.
No, you should be having fun.
But coming back to kind of themeaning and purpose thing, there

(53:39):
has to be this balance betweenvacation and vacation and, you
know, we spent a lot of timethinking about, I, I mean, it's,
it's.
It's always a work in progress.
'cause things change, but we, wealways think about the, the, the
finish line.
One of the things that I talk topeople about that, that we're

(53:59):
trying to live out in thisseason is a giving plan.
A lot of people, when I ask'em,do you have a giving plan?
That's that.
Never really thought about that.
So we're being much moreintentional with our generosity.
And then, as I said, we justwent through a whole process,
took about seven months andreally leaned into the legacy
thing.
And it's very important for methat everything is buttoned up

(54:23):
at the end.
And I, I've lived a life that Iwill be remembered for the
things that I wanna beremembered for.

Awesome.
I love it.
I love it.
You know, I think to close usout tonight, it's, it's
important to remember that it'snot a morbid thing to talk about
retirement.
I think in the US people equatethat with just have a pile of

(54:51):
money to live on until you cancoast and die.
It's like, no, it's not.
It's like, it, it's, it's achange.
It's a seasonal change.
It's not bad.
It's not negative.
I mean, if you think about it,we go through life retiring from
one thing into another all thetime.
It's not the last time we'regonna retire from something into
something else.
But having the overall thinkingahead in terms of legacy, not

(55:18):
waiting until you're in yoursixties to start, oh shoot, I
should probably build a legacyfor my kids and grandkids.
Oh my goodness, I wasted it.
You know, that's not, that's notthe goal.
That's not the goal is to thinkahead of it a little bit.

May I?

Yeah.

I come at it from the perspective that our legacy
isn't the pot of gold at the endof the rainbow.
Our legacy is the decisions wemake every single day, the way
we respond to the people in ourlives.
And if, if I might, my dadpassed away about six weeks ago.
We had to postpone this eventbecause we were doing a funeral.

(55:53):
And what was so beautiful aboutthat is I had, he was an
auctioneer, but the rest of histime he spent like announcing
rodeos and he was the championfor all the young people.
I had 50, 60-year-old womencoming up to me and people
coming up to me and saying, yourdad inspired me in ways that no
one else ever did.
He made me feel like I was thebest kid on that rodeo ring.

(56:17):
And what was so cool about thatis my son walked away from that
service saying, that's thelegacy I wanna leave to now.
That's my legacy.

That's awesome.
Mm-hmm.
It is.
It is.
Sounds like we're all cut fromthe same cloth and we come from
good stock.

You guys were amazing.
You, you hit the nail on thehead and I'm just so blessed to
have spent this time with youguys today.
All of you enjoyed it.
Thank you, Vona.
Appreciate you everybody.
It wasn't that great.
I just enjoyed that conversationso much.
There were so many good tips inthere that we can carry forward
as you begin to think about yourretirement, whether you're 20
years away from it and arelooking for ways to finish well

(56:57):
and prepare, or if you'realready in.
Like our guest, Michelle, wasduring the conversation and are
just thinking of ways that youcan tweak your experience to
make it even more richer andfulfilling.
I thank you for stopping bytoday.
I will leave the contactinformation in the show notes if
you wanna get ahold of any ofthe panelists today.
I'm just so grateful for eachone of them to show up and, and

(57:20):
bring all of that wonderfulinformation.
If you are really wanting to godeeper into how you can answer
God's call to more in yourretirement, I invite you to join
Club more.
Basically you take a pledge thatyou're gonna be all that you can
be, and then we'll just haveconversations in my community,
club more, you'll be a part ofmy, my mailing list and see

(57:42):
where other opportunities come.
I think this is an importanttime in our history.
We don't know when our time isup.
We don't know if tomorrow comes,but we do know that we need to
use every minute that we haveavailable to us to show the love
of Christ.
And that's what I wanna inviteyou into in club more and and
courageous retirement, is tohave the courage to speak up and

(58:04):
say what needs to be said toshow truth in love.
Thank you for coming by.
I'll see you back here in twoweeks where we will carry on the
conversation of courageousRetirement.
Until then, go be blessedremember to always, always
engage your faith and live yourmore.

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36. Beyond the Money: Finding Purpose and Adventure in Retirement | A Courageous Retirement Panel Discussion

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}36. Beyond the Money: Finding Purpose and Adventure in Retirement | A Courageous Retirement Panel Discussion