The Spirituality of the Church

Accompanied by several book recommendations, Robin covers the points that didn’t make the cut for his Sunday sermon, along with some insights on sermon application. He also "nerds out" about grammar and recites some scripture in Hebrew for us.

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Episode Transcript

Alyssa (00:02):
Welcome to A Family on a Mission.
This is a podcast from CovenantLife Church where we discuss
the sermon from the previousSunday.
This week I'll sit down withRobin and we'll discuss his
message on Philippians 2, 1-4,titled Unity Through Humility
Advances the Gospel.
So grab a cup of coffee andenjoy the conversation.
Robin, thank you very much forjoining me today.

Robin (00:45):
It's my pleasure.

Alyssa (00:47):
Glad to have you.
My first question for you iswas there anything that you
wanted to include in your sermonon Sunday but maybe didn't have
time for, or actually justdecided not to include?

Robin (01:00):
Yeah, there is.
Yeah, there is.
Actually, I'd like to beginjust by saying, with all the
sadness and heartache going onin the world at the moment, I
think it's worth reflecting onthe death of a very important
person, which almost wentunnoticed last week in Altoona,
at the age of 33, Larry Reprise,the man who wrote the song the

(01:24):
Hokey Pokey, died peacefully inhis sleep.
The most traumatic part for hisfamily was getting him into the
casket though.
They put his left foot in, andthat's when the trouble began.
I wasn't able to get that inthe sermon.

(01:44):
I didn't think it fit.

Alyssa (01:45):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm sad you didn't.
I think the congregation wouldh ave loved that.
I was gonna to say.
.
.
33?

Robin (01:57):
Well he was 83.

Alyssa (01:58):
O h okay

Robin (01:59):
83, and actually I don't know if that really happened
last week or not.

Alyssa (02:04):
Oh sure, Well, thanks for sharing.

Robin (02:07):
Can you ask your question again?
Because I've already forgottenit.

Alyssa (02:10):
I absolutely can.
Was there anything in yoursermon that you had wanted to
include but didn't have time for?
Or maybe just decided not toinclude other than refe rencing
the guy who wrote the HokeyPokey?

Robin (02:25):
Yeah, as a matter of fact , I had wrestled a little bit
with whether to end the sermonwith a discussion of some unity
killers.
Now this is a passage ofScripture that talks about unity
in the church, unity throughhumility, that that advances the

(02:48):
gospel, and I had thought aboutsome application issues and I
touched on it a little bit whenI began with talking about the
mission of the church being theadvance of the gospel, and it
was kind of on my mind to talkabout things that threatened the
unity in our present moment.

(03:09):
And I am serious when I'mtalking about this.
In particular, political andcultural issues.
I think I may have said in thesermon something that I've said
before Are political issuesimportant?
Yes, are they all important?
No.
Are cultural issues important?

(03:32):
Yes, are they all important?
No, what is all important isthe gospel.
That's the mission that we havebeen given to us.
It's the mission given to thechurch, and if we do anything,
this is what we have to do.
So I thought of ending thesermon by talking, maybe in a

(03:54):
little bit more detail aboutthat, but then I decided not to,
because I wanted to leave thecongregation with what emphasis
the text itself had, which wason the unity of the church and
not necessarily on specificthings that threatened that
unity.
So you know, in a podcast likethis, we're able to do something

(04:16):
like that.
And maybe I should set it up bytalking about a very important
doctrine that is not talkedabout much and little understood
.
It's called the doctrine of thespirituality of the church.
And this doctrine has beenaround fo r a while.

(04:39):
What it is saying in essence isthat the mission that Christ
has given to the church is aspiritual mission.
It has to do with eternalissues.
And while it doesn't say thechurch should have nothing to do
with political or culturalissues, the doctrine of the

(05:02):
spirituality of the church soemphasizes the mission that we
have to make disciples of allnations, baptizing them,
teaching them, and so then thechurch can go on to glorify God
through that gospel advancement.

(05:24):
Now, obviously, there areissues going on all the time,
and this has been truethroughout the entire history of
the church.
When the church loses sight ofthis ultimate mission, it runs
the risk of becoming eccentricor losing its focus and failing

(05:46):
to fulfill what God wants us tofulfill.
So in our present moment, theseare—and it's always been a big
deal for the church.
One of the things that you knowyou'll hear me talk about is
reading the classics, which MarkTwain defined a classic as a
book everyone wants to have read, but no one wants to read.
Well, one of the great classics, especially of Christian

(06:10):
literature, is Augustine's Cityof God.
So over the last eight yearsI've read it twice and I've
studied it somewhat in depth.
And if you read the City of God, which I think everyone should
read, you'll find it to be inmany ways an extremely tedious

(06:33):
read.
It's not a lot of fun, but Ithink it's very important.
I'll give you a little contextfor it and then make some
comments about it.
Augustine read the City of Godas an apologetic or a defense of
the Christian church followingsomething that happened in 410

(06:53):
AD and that was the sack of Rome.
Alaric and the Goths sacked theCity of Rome, which had never
happened before.
It had never been threatenedlike that, and this was the
Roman Empire's 9-11.
In other words, this changedeverything for the Roman Empire.
Now they realized howvulnerable they were and the

(07:14):
question was why has thishappened?
The Roman Empire had beenaround for a long time, Rome
itself even before it was anempire, the Republic, etc.
You're talking about a thousandyears of Rome.
Now what's going on?
And one of the reasons that wasput forth that Rome was

(07:35):
suffering this great humiliationwas because of the Christians.
They have left off worshipingthe national historic gods of
Rome and because of that thosegods are angry.
And now it's because of theseChristians that we're finding
all this bad stuff happening.
Augustine wrote this work tocounter that, and in so doing he

(08:07):
put forth the idea that'ssometimes been called political
realism, but what he's reallytalking about here is a
Christian philosophy of history.
So, without getting too muchinto the weeds, I'll just make a
few comments about it and thentry to maybe talk about our
present day a little bit.
Augustine said that the sack ofRome was not a world-changing

(08:29):
event.
The fall of man was aworld-changing event.
The incarnation of Christ, hisdeath and resurrection, were
changing events.
Augustine is urging an attitudetoward things like 9-11 or the

(08:49):
sack of Rome that's neithernostalgic nor apocalyptic.
So he's urging a kind ofpolitical realism that puts
things in their proper place.
Things that are going on in ourculture today political upheaval
, the swings that we've had inadministrations over the past 10

(09:11):
years or so have got a lot ofpeople, you know, suffering
whiplash and a lot of peoplewere very upset.
But we have to keep it inperspective.
These are not world-changingevents.
Are they important?
Yes, are they all important?
No, the gospel of Christ iswhat is all important.

(09:34):
If we keep our eye on the ball,we'll be able to manage the
changes that take place in ourculture with some balance and
some equanimity and we'll beable to maintain the unity of
the spirit and the bond of peace.
I can't remember if I said thisin my class on medieval history

(09:54):
last Sunday or not, but some ofthe things that we've gone
through over the last 10 yearshave been really upsetting and
have got a lot of people reallyworked up, and it reminds me of
the 60s, because now I justturned 75.
I came of age in the 60s andthere were a lot of similarities

(10:17):
with some of the things goingon, especially around COVID and
Black Lives Matter and some ofthe riots and things that were
taking place.
That reminded me of the 60s,but in the 60s we had
assassinations In addition.
So there's really nothing newunder the sun.
What's going to help us, asChristians, maintain our balance

(10:39):
is understanding the history ofthe church, the history of the
world, and that what's going onright now, while very important,
we have to meet it withChristian values and Christian
faith and Christian confidence,not triumphalism, but just a

(11:00):
sober view is going to bekeeping the gospel central, and
I do think that a study ofhistory is really helpful for
maintaining our balance.
So those are some general thingsthat I can say, and I can get
more specific if you'd like, butthis, oh, I think I'll mention

(11:25):
one other thing, well, actuallya couple things.
This doctrine of thespirituality of the church.
It's been put in a nice littleform by a church history
professor named Alan Strange,just like it sounds strange, and
the book is called EmpoweredWitness.
I think we have it.

(11:45):
If we don't, it's worth a readbecause it puts forth this
doctrine of the spirituality ofthe church, and I think it'd be
very helpful going a little bitdeeper than the little booklet
that we have recommended byJonathan Lehman.

Alyssa (12:02):
And I think Philip just said it's on its way to the
bookstore, so it should be inthere soon.

Robin (12:07):
There's another book by our friend, Scott Redd, who is
the president of ReformTheological Seminary here in the
DC area, and Scott has been tospeak at our church.
His book called the WholenessImperative.
I'll just read something thatScott wrote in this book, just a

(12:30):
little excerpt.
Talking about the Lord JesusChrist.
Talking about the Lord JesusChrist.
And at the time Jesus walkedthe earth, the Jewish people
were looking for a Messiah ofthe King David type that was
going to come militarily andkick the butts of the Romans and
reestablish the Davidic kingdom.

(12:50):
And Scott writes what seemed tobe the Jewish community's sole
hope lay in this mysteriouscharacter called Messiah, or, in
Greek, Christ.

(13:10):
And Scott writes from slaveryand oppression.
In light of their dire situation, it is perhaps understandable
that many Jewish interpretersanticipated this Messiah as a
military commander, a hardenedand skillful warrior who would
right the wrongs of the Romanoccupiers and inaugurate a
kingdom of justice and peace,ruled from the capital city of

(13:34):
Jerusalem and thrown beside thetemple of the living God.
Jesus understood this messianicexpectation of the people.
He understood that the Jewishpeople of his day, like people
of any time period, had a hardtime seeing past their own
immediate political and culturalrealities.

(13:54):
But he also knew that he wasthe true Messiah, that he was
the great king deliverer, butnot the sort of deliverer they
anticipated.
His objective was not to rule asmall plot of real estate on
the eastern coast of theMediterranean.
His enemies were not the Romansoldiers nor corrupt local
governors.
He had bigger fish to fry.

(14:17):
He was about the work ofoverthrowing the enemy trifecta
of the human race Satan, sin anddeath.
Very well stated, in my opinion.
Jesus had his eye on the ball,and it would be good if we had
our eye on the ball too.
So we're not looking for aChristian nation.

(14:39):
There really never has beensuch a thing, and anyone that's
expecting the Christian churchto be anything more than a
significant minority in theworld is bound to be
disappointed.
We've been given a task, andour task is the proclamation of
the gospel.
To make disciples of allnations, not just our own, and I

(15:03):
speak as someone who ispatriotic.
I mean I love our nation.
My father lost a leg for thisnation.
I still tear up sometimes whenI hear the national anthem.
So I think it's very proper andappropriate for us to be good
citizens of the kingdom, ofwhatever nation we're in, but

(15:27):
our citizenship in the kingdomof God is of a higher degree and
we need to always keep that inmind.

Alyssa (15:35):
Yeah, that's great.
That's really helpful.
Are there any other you know,insights that you can share with
us?
Or maybe, before we startedrecording, you and I were
talking a little bit aboutapplication and how much to
include different applicationpoints in your sermons and stuff
like that.
Can you just kind of yeah?

Robin (15:54):
Yeah, my sermon was light on application.
I mean, I talked with Claire alittle bit about how does this
kind of humility and puttingothers first work out in our
lives?
And she just said I think it'sin the little decisions we make,
the little decisions of servinginstead of selfishness.
And then I thought about, youknow, letting the guy merge in,

(16:17):
even if he's been driving up theshoulder.
You know we're all waiting intraffic as traffic merges
together.
And then you've got somebodydriving up the shoulder and you
know wants to cut in.
Well, ok, why don't you let him?
It's what?
What's it going to hurt?
You know that sort of thing,and not even grudging service

(16:41):
like that, but taking theinitiative to let the little
brother have the last piece ofpie.
You know, when I think aboutthings like this I realize, oh
okay, in my old age there's hopefor me because I was going to
be the first to grab that pieceof pie and feel absolutely
righteous in doing it.
But the older I get, the more Irealize you know, is that

(17:06):
really what's important?
Humility is not me trying tofeel bad about myself, but me
putting others before myself.
So how do you do that?
I mean, I could have thoughtperhaps and done a better job of
talking about that in marriageand in the workplace and at

(17:28):
school.
But I'll tell you a little bitof the history of our church.
This is a church that hasalways put a premium on not just
knowing the truth but applyingthe truth, and there was a time
when virtually every sermon thatwas preached ended with some
specific application points, andthere's nothing wrong with that

(17:54):
, uh.
But I will say that over time,those application points that
were suggested by the preacher,uh, took on such a character as
to almost overwhelm the text.
As a result, there was a moveaway from specific application.

(18:16):
What I mean is this If I'm upthere as a preacher and I'm
suggesting application for this,because pastors and preachers
are held in such high esteem,the thought often with people is
that, wow, whatever he's doing,that's what I need to do.
Well, maybe, but maybe notPutting a pastor or a preacher

(18:40):
up on a pedestal so that his wayof applying things should be
the way that everybody appliesthem.
I just don't think that'sreally healthy in the long run.
So there was a move away fromspecific application, so that
people would hear the messageand then know that they've got

(19:01):
to talk to God about how thisshould work out in their own
lives.
In other words, we asindividual members of the
congregation have a job to do,to talk to the Lord about how he
wants us to implement truth,and I think that's really good,
really important.
Well, that then the pendulumcan swing to the point where

(19:23):
nothing is said aboutapplication and the passage is
left in a conceptual state,maybe some kind of an abstract
state, where people don't haveany thought about what to do at
all.
I guess there's a happy medium,and I think it's the job of the
preacher to seek the Lord onwhat he does or doesn't say with

(19:44):
regard to application.
So anyway, just like anindividual, a church goes
through growth, starts out inits infancy and gets into middle
age, and it's just like.
Just like anything, I guess,and so you learn from making
mistakes on both sides.

Alyssa (20:06):
Yeah, yeah, that's great , that's really helpful and very
yeah, it's cool to see how kindof you think about that and
everything.
Yeah, all right, so this wouldbe our section where we would
have some questions from thecongregation.
We didn't get any this week,unfortunately, so Take this as a
reminder that if anyone has anyquestions at all about the

(20:28):
sermon or really anything,please send them in to podcast
at covelifeorg.
We typically record on Tuesdays, so if you can send it in
before the Tuesday of the weekthat the sermon was preached,
that would be great.

Robin (20:43):
Can I say some nerdy stuff about conditional
sentences?

Alyssa (20:46):
Oh sure.

Robin (20:48):
Because the text was a conditional sentence, right?
You know, if the weather's niceon Monday, I will, then I will
play, if then sentences I lovethis kind of stuff.
This is grammar and syntax andsentence form.
This is where I live.
I really like this stuff.

(21:09):
The word for the if part of aconditional sentence is called
the protesis, and the word forthe then part of a conditional
sentence is called the apotesis.
Isn't that cool?
Yeah, the protesis and theapodesis, the if and the then.

(21:32):
Now, that's the kind of thingthat you can't say when you're
preaching or people are going tothink what is he doing?
It's like when you say theGreek word is blah, blah, blah.
And I'll say one other thinghow good and how pleasant it is
for brothers to dwell togetherin unity.
Hinei mattov, u'mah nahimshevet, achim gam yachad.

(21:55):
So I don't want to impresspeople by saying it in Hebrew,
but I want to impress thelisteners of this podcast,
because you are the truescholars of the church that go
deeply into things and listen tonerdy podcasts.
And all of this stuff is there.
For what is there?

(22:16):
A half dozen of us, but maybemore than that.

Alyssa (22:19):
Surely there's more.

Robin (22:21):
But there's a lot of stuff that we get to do in
ministering the word.
That is really it's very cooland we really enjoy it.

Alyssa (22:31):
Yeah, well, for what it's worth.
I love it when you guys includeyou know this is what the
original text said and whatever.
I think that's so I don't.
Yeah, I think that's awesome.

Robin (22:39):
Yeah, you know to be clear about it.
If there's a reason forincluding something like that,
we will.
But the whole purpose ofpreaching is to represent what
the Holy Spirit has given us inScripture, to represent it in a
way that will bring glory to Godand benefit to the people, not

(23:01):
something that'll scratch anitch that I have, but I like to
have my itches scratched.

Alyssa (23:07):
There you go, there you go, all right.
Well, with that, we're going tomove on to our next section,
which is Fun Facts with Philip,and today we have the very man
himself, philip Martin, to giveus a fun fact.
So welcome Philip.

Philip (23:23):
Hi Robin hey.

Robin (23:25):
Philip, I call him Phil.
Thank you, ernest, I call himPhil.

Philip (23:28):
Oh, thank you, Ernest.
I appreciate that You'recurrently teaching a church
history class, and so I thought,for today's fun fact, we would
give you a quiz and see if youare qualified to teach this
church history class.
Uh-oh, so I'm going to startwith an easy one.
We have three questions, and ifyou get two out of three right,

(23:49):
you get the church staff memberof your choice's voice on your
home answering machine.
Oh, wow.
So yesterday many peoplecelebrated St Patrick's Day.
Why is March?

Robin (24:06):
17th, the day that it is observed.

Philip (24:08):
I have no idea and any guesses, it's the Ides of March.
That's the 14th.
That's the 14th, yeah, or the15th, 15th, 15th, it's the day
that Patrick died, traditionally.
Oh, we don't know when he wasborn, but the traditional
account is that he died on March17th, so that's why we

(24:30):
celebrate that, oh.
So now you, but the traditionalaccount is that he died on March
17th, so that's why wecelebrate that.
Oh so, now you know, yeah,that's great, all right, you
still got two more.
Okay, so these ones arestretching back.
Well, all three of thesequestions go back pretty far in
church history, so this year is2025.
What important church documentis celebrating its 1,700th

(24:51):
anniversary this year?

Robin (24:53):
1,700th.

Philip (24:57):
What church document has been around now for 1,700 years
, as of 2025?

Robin (25:03):
I'm afraid I can't do the math in my head.
Okay, what year?
325.
Oh, okay, yeah, that was theNicene Council and the beginning
of the Nicene Creed.

Philip (25:16):
Right.
So it was in May or June of 325, the council was gathered and
they produced a document, and itwasn't until 381 that it was
formally accepted by the second.

Robin (25:29):
Nicene Council, constantinople, yeah.

Philip (25:32):
So we'll give you that one, we'll give you number two.
So it all comes down to thethird question.
We talked about March 17th.
Now what happened on March 18thin church history?
And the hint is that ithappened in the year 1123 in the
city of Rome.
I don't know.
Well, this is.

(25:53):
I would be very surprised ifyou did know.
It was the first Laterancouncil.
So now, robin, what was thefirst Lateran council?
Because I don't know, and I washoping maybe our church history
professor could tell us.

Robin (26:08):
Yeah, I don't know about the first Lateran council.
I know the fourth Laterancouncil and I was hoping maybe
our church history professorcould tell us.
Yeah, I don't know about theFirst Lateran Council, I know
the Fourth Lateran Council.
Why were they called Lateran?
Because in Rome I think it wasthe church of St John Lateran
where the council was held.
What did they do?

(26:31):
Well, in the councils of thechurch they established canon
law.
Sometimes, you know, creedswere.
I mean, there are a lot ofcouncils in the church.
The great ecumenical councilsare usually considered to be the

(26:52):
first four, but there were manybesides that.
And in the Middle Ages thewhole idea of councils
eventually got supplanted by thearose between popes.
The conciliar movement.

(27:15):
The idea that councils shouldalso have authority came back to
the fore, and that was takingplace in the late Middle Ages.
So yeah, anyway.

Philip (27:33):
Well, there you have it, one out of three.
So no, no voice on youranswering machine.
Okay, well, that's, that's fine,yeah, you came up with some
obscure questions, but that wasthe goal that was the goal, you,
you succeeded, yeah and ifanybody wants to celebrate the
17th 100th anniversary of theNicene Creed, there's a
conference being held atSpringfield Church, in Emanuel
Church in Springfield, virginiaoh, is that where you heard

(27:53):
about that?
Yeah, in a couple weeks, sowe're going to talk about the
Trinity for two days.
That's great.
That's great.
Well, there you have it, andthat is Fun Facts with Philip
great you can say goodbye to thepeople.

Alyssa (28:06):
Sign off you're going to have to come back thanks so
much for listening to thisweek's episode of A Family on a
Mission, and thank you to Robinand Phillip for joining us again
.
Remember, we would love for youto be a part of this
conversation, so please sendyour questions to podcast at
covelifeorg.
We will see you next week,thank you.