June 13, 2025 • 58 mins
Join Isabel and her guest, Jenn Friedline of Jenn's Dogs in Forest Grove, Oregon, for a chat about dog training and communication. Isabel and Jenn break down some common human-dog miscommunications, misguided expectations, and so much more. As a dog trainer, Jenn recognizes that training the human is a large part of the process. She and Isabel discuss the ways in which dog lovers get it wrong and go over Jenn's wise words as shared on social media. Dog lovers, new and expert level, will enjoy this chat and learn how to fine tune their canine communication skills so that they can better guide dogs from puppyhood into adulthood and beyond.
EPISODE NOTES: How to Speak Dog Without Barking Up the Wrong Tree
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/covered-in-pet-hair-a-fun-late-night-boozy-pet-podcast--6667884/support.
EPISODE NOTES: How to Speak Dog Without Barking Up the Wrong Tree
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/covered-in-pet-hair-a-fun-late-night-boozy-pet-podcast--6667884/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is pet Life Radio. Let's Talk Pets.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Welcome to Covered in pet Hair, a booby show for
pet lovers on pet Life Radio. I'm your host Isabelle Albazarata,
and today I have the pleasure of having a drink
in a chat with a certified Times three dog trainer
who is gonna tell us all about how context matters
when we communicate with our dogs. Don't go anywhere. I
will tell you all about her and introduce you eston.
(00:43):
Has we come back from these messages from our sponsors.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Take a bite out of your competition. Advertise your business
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(01:09):
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visit Petlife Radio dot com slash advertised Today.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Let's Talk Pets on Petlifradio dot com.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Welcome back to Covered in pet Haair. I'm your host
Isabelle Albert, Gerana, and today I'm having a chat about
contacts and communication with our dogs with Jen Freedblind, who
is the founder of Jen's Dogs. She is wife to Curtis.
She is dog mom to three dogs wait for these names, Guys, Shadow,
(02:03):
Von Wigglesink, Little Lily with the spots, Sir Basil of Waggington.
Those are her three dogs. She is the founder and
head trainer at Jen's Dogs. She is Jennifer Freedline. Welcome.
It's so good to have you on the show, Teh.
Speaker 5 (02:17):
Thank you so much, glad to be here.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Well, she is the founder behind Jen's Dogs on social media,
so if you don't follow her, give her a follow.
Hello Brook, Hello Joe, and thank you for joining us
on Instagram. Let's see if I see anybody on Facebook
and YouTube that I recognize.
Speaker 5 (02:35):
Well.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
I always start this show with the game, and the
most important game is our drinking game. So anybody at
home participating in our drinking game. Today's drinking game word
is the secret word is Jen. So if I say that,
take a drink of whatever you're joining it could be
alcoholic beverage, a non alcoholic beverage, a coffee of tea,
(02:58):
a soda, whatever you're drinking. Just play along. It's fun
to be engaged while we chat. And I know that
you are a wine lover. Did you have a chance
to pour yourself a glass of wine before we went live?
Speaker 5 (03:10):
I did?
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Indeed, Yes, she did.
Speaker 5 (03:12):
Good.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yeah, Like I love wine too. And you're in Oregon,
so I'm sure you have a ton of wineries to visit.
Speaker 5 (03:19):
Oh yes, oh yeah, so right in the middle of
wine country. It's great.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Oh I'm so jealous. I'm so jealous. I live in Olpasers,
so I have cacti. I don't have wine. I don't
have a lot of produce. I mean we can drive
to it, but here locally we don't have any wine.
But I mean i get to taste amazing tequila, so
I'm not one to complain. But I today needed a
little boost. So I'm having a gatahillyo, which, for those
of you who are from Spain, are familiar. In Spain,
(03:45):
when you order a gottahilo, it's usually served in like
a tiny es bristol cup with a shot of whatever
liquor you want. Here an Alpasso. Every time I order one,
they bring it iceed and with liquor forty three. So
that's how I made it today because I needed a
little boot.
Speaker 5 (04:00):
Cheers.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Thank you for being my guest, Thanks for being on
the show. I'm so excited to chat with you about
something that is really important, something that I think people
get wrong a lot, and it's communication with dogs, just
interacting with dogs. And I don't mean like telepathic animal communication.
(04:21):
I mean just like regular old I want you to
do this, and the dogs looking at you like what is?
What is? What is happening right now? So our first
game today is called Dogs Speak and it's things humans
do that dogs don't understand. And it's taken mostly from
a University of Sydney a blog post about eight things
(04:43):
we do that really confuse our dogs. Are you ready
to play? Yeah?
Speaker 5 (04:46):
Ready?
Speaker 2 (04:47):
All right? We leave them alone? Why does that confuse
our dogs?
Speaker 5 (04:54):
Oh? Well, they're social. They're very social creatures. And they
also don't understand why we want to go. Like they
don't understand work, but they don't understand like driving. They
don't understand like going out to eat. They might understand
that a little bit because they might go to like
somewhere else to forage. But they don't really understand what we're.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Doing when we leave.
Speaker 5 (05:19):
They don't know we come back smelling like. They don't
get up these smiles and people and things and places.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Yes, actually that brings me to my next one. The
next one is we change our shape and smell.
Speaker 5 (05:31):
Oh yeah, yeah, so our fundamental smell can actually change
not only by what we're eating, how we're feeling, but
also what we're wearing and where we went.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Yes, exactly. How about we watch TV and other visual stimuli.
They don't get that, according to this article.
Speaker 5 (05:49):
Actually now they do. Our TVs are so pixelated that
it moves fast enough for their eyes to pick up
on it, which is why you may notice increase of
dogs who are watching TV. In fact, my dog's favorite shows,
well shadows of Lily's favorite show is Bluey, but Basil
the Baby prefers Lord of the Rings.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
You know, I've only had one pet that enjoyed the TV,
and it was a cat. Yeah, otherwise they paid no
attention to it. But I remember pet sitting two puggles
that everything that happened on the TV, they were super
aware of it. They saw a dog, they would bark
they saw, you know, a door, they'd look like, who's there.
It was really fun to watch because they were in
my house and I was not used to it. I
(06:31):
also felt like I was stressing them out, like should
I turn this off? All right? The next one is
we hug.
Speaker 5 (06:37):
Yeah, Hugging is not not necessarily something that really falls
to dogs, just because their bodies are structured differently, so
they do understand the like pressing of bodies together. They
just don't understand because we move our arms differently than
they do. So some dogs will actually pick up that
(06:58):
trait and hug as they're trying to mimic us. But
they do like to be close like that.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Yes, they like to snuggle for sure. Yeah, okay. One
thing that the article said that made me laugh is
we don't like to be bitten.
Speaker 5 (07:14):
Usually dogs don't get that.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Dogs are like why not?
Speaker 5 (07:17):
You know, I don't really I don't really know if
I would say that dogs particularly like to be bitten either.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Well, like more I guess think it's more mouthing like
you know, how they play bite each other and like,
we don't like to be slobbered on each other, but
they kind of amongst each other will slobber and play bite,
And honestly, I agree with the article. I don't like
to be bit when puppies are little and they have
those sharp little teeth like vampires like. I don't enjoy
that at all. But I always thought that dogs didn't.
Speaker 5 (07:46):
Like it either. So do dogs like to be mouth
I think that they like to be mouthed only in play.
It's kind of like I don't necessarily like people to
like touch me or grab me or hold me all
the time, but when I'm like asking for like a
wrestle matchers of sorts, that I do like it. So
(08:07):
I think that dogs don't only like it in that context.
That's a very like exactly context dependent.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Yes, well, I think context is really important in all
of this, right, Like context always matters, and like our
context and their context is always going to be different completely.
Speaker 5 (08:25):
We're like practically two different worlds because we both experience
it differently.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
So, yes, we experience this differently, which is we don't
eat from the trash. They don't get it.
Speaker 5 (08:38):
No, They're like, why did you throw away all of
this perfectly good stuff? And that's what the one of
the things that really is probably most misunderstood about dogs.
They share so much DNA with wolves that people naturally
assume that they're all hunters and and prey drive is
definitely a thing for dogs, But they're scavengers. Their whole
(09:02):
like drive is to feet and to steal end of
forage and scavenge. So you know, like if all the
humans disappeared, you know today, you would not find the
all of the dogs out in the woods. You'd find
some of them out in the woods. You'd find all
the terriers, like going to get all the rodents. But
you know, for the most part, the rest of them,
(09:23):
they would be going from dumpster to dumpster looking for food.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Yes, opportunists. Yeah, absolutely, I completely agree. Okay, so this
one was interesting. We share territories and they don't get
it with other humans. With other dogs, we all like
kind of encroach on each other, and in their minds
it's like, how dare you?
Speaker 5 (09:45):
I don't know if I agree with that one. I
think that they they live in family units and they
make friends, and they think that they just like ask
we like to have our separate houses, separate rooms, separate spaces.
But I think that most dogs have a lot of
really common areas like dog parks sidewalks.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
They're comfortable with that idea.
Speaker 5 (10:05):
Yeah, I think so, because it's not really They might
get a little bit threatened if they feel like somebody
is getting in their space, but like if I'm sitting
on the couch and you came to sit on my lap,
I'd probably like have the snap re action as a dog.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Again, it's all about context. Agreed. Well, I know I'm
guilty of this. We use our hands a lot.
Speaker 5 (10:25):
Yeah, yeah, they don't, you know, they don't have hands.
Some dogs will use their paws a lot. Yeah, some
dogs that are more more posy, and some dogs that
are more use their nose so there's snout more. But yeah,
mostly because they just don't don't have hands. So they
also don't really know what we're doing, and they and
(10:45):
they go so far that they like it can be surprising.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
My mom had a neighbor in Florida that was like
so over the top and like we still talk to her,
we still love her. Her name is Grace and she
is just like a walk like just entertainment like performance,
and every time any dog met her, you could see
them kind of like every time her hands moved, they'd
be like because they didn't know what she was doing,
(11:11):
and she was just so enthusiastic with her hand movement.
So if you are one of those people, and there
are many of us out there, when you meet a
new dog, maybe it's best to kind of like tone
it down a little bit, only use your voice. Would
you recommend that, would you agree.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
To some extent? To some extent, but I really would
only do that if you notice that a dog is
startled by your movement. Otherwise, be natural would be you,
because if you start changing, if you're like, okay, I'm
gonna like sit here with my arms down to my
side and I'm gonna like hold my hands like this,
and I'm gonna like be up like this, the dog,
(11:45):
we're gonna be like, why are you so tits? What's
going on?
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Maybe it's, as I say.
Speaker 5 (11:49):
Be natural, unless you like notice a dog is reacting
to your hands speak, and then you can say, oh, okay,
I'll just like it a little quieter.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
I like that. I've never heard it called hands speak.
I do a lot of hand speaking, so I get
it all right. Next one, speaking of things that are
a little over the top, yelling, yelling in communication amongst.
Speaker 5 (12:14):
Each other, I mean dogs bark at each other and
I usually call that yelling.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Yeah, so you think that they get it.
Speaker 5 (12:20):
I think we do because like a lot of times,
if my dogs are well, for my dogs, you know,
every time they're they're yelling or they're barking, it's usually
because somebody's yelling outside. Yeah, They're like, oh, you're you're
gonna bark, so I'm gonna bark.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
I love when people yell at their dogs for barking,
and now everybody's yelling. And I always tell my husband
because my husband is and I've said this before and
he will not be surprised to be here because again
that he's like the worst dog trainer I've ever encountered,
and like it leads over to his parenting too. I'll
be like, that is not like you're missing the point,
(12:55):
like when you yell at them for yelling, like I
feel like nobody's really learning any thing right. And it
happens with both our dogs. He doesn't really discipline our cat,
like our cat has carte blanche here from all of us,
but like yelling that the barking dog definitely doesn't make sense.
And another thing he does, which is next on my
list is lecturing dogs like he'll I remember we had
(13:16):
we had a dog named Radar who was like this
was like this dog was just like the best, and
he was like the boss of all the dogs. And
Chris would say to him, young man, and I would
look at him, like, who are you talking to? So lecturing?
Does that does that make any impact our on our
dogs at all?
Speaker 5 (13:35):
Yes, the probably not in the way that we actually
think it does. So like there's a reason why my
dogs have long names that I could call them, but
they're ug names lecturing. And I also, you know, sometimes
we those lectures I call them when I talked to
my dogs, I call them a come to gen talc.
So that it's a you know, we're gonna sit here,
(13:58):
we're gonna talk about it about you know why I
have an issue, and it's Morstley is just a way
for us to kind of reason it out. The dogs
may or may not understand. They probably understand more words
than we give them credit for, and there's no way
to really truly test if they know the words or not,
but they recognize intent. So if you're like talking to
(14:20):
them and you're really earnest and you're like, okay, look,
I really don't like being fit. I really don't like this.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
I don't like that.
Speaker 5 (14:26):
I don't like this. They're gonna sit there and they're
gonna look at you and be like and feel this
like you're serious. They're just gonna be able to like
kind of pick up on you know, your intent. They
have no idea what you're saying. It might sound like,
you know, like the wah wah wanh wanh want, but
they for a minute, you know, like Basil, he you know,
he's seven months old right now, so we have these
(14:47):
talks and then he looks all like curious and like
labby and he's all like, I'm sorry, and then he's
right back to the lostar raptor. So I mean for
two seconds. But I don't think they like are sitting
later and processing and going hmm they said not to
do that.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Yeah, so no different than our children then, because my kids,
every time he lectures them, I'm like, they have checked out. Yeah,
they have no idea what you're saying anymore. They're just
looking at you and noticing that you're like your cheeks
are red, and like noticing that like your shirt has
a stain on it. Like my kids already went into
like another dimension. And I mean, I can't blame them
(15:29):
because the lecturing doesn't work for me either.
Speaker 5 (15:31):
Okay, you talks about names, you know how people do that?
Speaker 2 (15:35):
And this was not part of the article, but this
is something that I feel like I see happen a lot.
Was Well, people will call their dog's names when they
are doing something wrong. Does that confuse the dog, because
like it would confuse me.
Speaker 5 (15:48):
Yeah, yeah, that's like that's usually why people end up
seeking training, because they spend a lot of time teaching
their puppy like this is your name, and they're all
like super excited. But then the dog hits like teenage
years and becomes an adolescent and is now like a
teenage terror and every time they say their dog's name,
it's like you know, mean and gruff and stern, and
(16:11):
they aren't actually like saying what they mean, they're just
calling the dog's name. And so now the dog's like, okay,
if you say my name, I must be in like
trouble and they like run away. And then people are like,
you know, oh, so they don't follow my commands and
they don't like they don't do this stuff, and then
like they come to the training and they're just sitting
(16:32):
there like saying the dog's name.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Like rap Ra. Yeah, that's like And that's why that's
why communication is so important. Like if you're if you
want them to drop something on a walk, you don't
say their name, you say leave it or drop it
or whatever you've viewed them to do. But if you're
just screaming sad bro as you're putting your hands in
their mouth, I don't feel like it's super effective. But
(16:56):
I see it happen all the time. And one that
I also see happen, and this is our last one
for the game, is punishment. Do dogs get confused when
they get punished?
Speaker 5 (17:08):
Well, yes and no. So punishment is part of learning
theory right punishment is to suppress behavior to stop the
behavior from happening. The tricky part is that punishment it
doesn't matter if you intended to be punishment or not.
It depends on how the dog takes it, and it
also depends on what they were doing immediately before or
(17:29):
during the time that the punishment was administered. So if
you're mad at your dog for getting into the trash
while you are gone to the store, and then you
call your dog over and then you start, let's just
for you know, for fun's sake, let's lecture them where
we're saying their name and we're talking really sternly at them,
and we're intending to suppress the behavior. If the dog
(17:51):
is really sensitive, and now that I feel like, well,
you came home and now you're yelling at me, you know,
and they and they start to feel that then you
didn't really punish what you intended. You punished what immediately happened,
which was coming to greet you. So it's like, so
punishment does work. That's part of learning theory, Like it
(18:12):
works for us too. If you put your hands in
the hot stove, you quickly learn not to do that
anymore because you've got immediate punishment of putting your hand
on the hot stove. You know, hopefully it's not not
a trip to the hospital kind of punishment, but you
know it's still I mean, even if it was like,
you know, just still slightly warm, it's still gonna startle you.
(18:33):
So punishment like it works, but you know it's it's not.
It's really tricky because if you're not giving punishment that
the dog takes as punishment at the time, that the
behavior is happening or the thing is happening, then they're
not gonna tie this punishment you're giving to them now
to the h being on the floor, and they're gonna
(18:56):
be scared because.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Exactly, yeah, And it like a bond with them, which
is something that you are really big on. And it
reminds me of parenting too, when it's like I try
to find the natural consequence of things like being burned,
because the punishment just kind of it. Either if it's
taking away screens, then now it's a punishment for me too.
And if it's like I'm not gonna punish with food
(19:21):
because I don't want them to have a bad relationship
with food. So punishment gets really really tricky with humans,
so you can only imagine how tricky it is when
you're dealing with another species that doesn't speak the same
language or communicate in the same way. So thank you
for that. That was super insightful. I loved it, and
I did a lot of research, as I do in
preparation for my show, and I read on your website
(19:43):
that you got your start in dog training in something
you referred to as emotional recovery for dogs. Would you
mind kind of going into what that means to you
and why you were attracted to that part of dog training.
Speaker 5 (19:58):
Sure, so the day that I started my dog training
career was also the day that I adopted a highly
reactive six month old dog that had a massive amount
of trauma in their for their first six months. Like this,
(20:20):
this poor this poor kid, Like, oh my gosh, she
had so much. So of course, as a first starting out,
I had understood the basic you know, task training and skills.
That's what I had gone to a program through the
company that I worked with, and so I was teaching
you know, basic manners classes and beginner classes, puppy classes
(20:40):
and things like that up to the CGC, and I
did some of that task training with our dog, Raisin.
But I immediately started to notice that like, she was
smart as a whip, she was a working line dog,
she was a duck lab American lab on the hunting lab,
and she was amazing. She was incredibly smart, great problems solved,
figured out all the puzzles. But this task training was
(21:02):
like just like, couldn't couldn't land on her. So I
immediately started looking into there's got to be something beyond
just skill and task and so I immediately started reading all
the books I could about how dogs think, how dogs learn,
how dogs feel. So the first one that I read,
(21:24):
it was about a week into my career, and it
changed everything was How Dogs Love Us by Gregory Burns.
He was not a dog trainer, he was, you know,
not even in the pet industry, and he was just
really curious about how to get his dog into MRI
machine without putting the dog to sleep. And so he
(21:47):
he did that and and I would. And that particular
book is great because it's not super science y, you know,
so I wasn't really well versed in science. You know,
I read it.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Now he does the whole whole like how long it
took to train them to lay down all that stuff? Right?
And what the what they found in the MRIs Is
that right? I remember it, curly, Yes, I remember reading
that book. It's fascinating.
Speaker 5 (22:11):
I mean, it was life changing for me. And that
was and that was it. And once I started like
kind of thinking about that and going down that path,
and then you know, finding other trainers who cared about
the emotional experience of dogs, and we're talking about going
beyond the operat and we're talking about like these emotions,
and we started reading about Now I understand science a
(22:31):
lot more that could handle a sciencey read. But you know,
seven years ago I was like, oh, I don't know.
So I really liked how conversational it was. And that
was what really helped us find relief of being able
to help her regulate her emotions and resolve her emotions
(22:53):
that so that she could be in a thinking learning brain.
And then the task and skill training was was a brief.
She actually became my demo dog at my previous facility.
So she went to work with me, and she was reactive,
but she wasn't traditionally reactive, so like she could be anywhere.
She didn't care about other dogs, she didn't care about
(23:13):
you know, all of her turmoil really was just in
her own head. The poor girl, isn't it all?
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Like I say, take that on too. All my crothes
inside too.
Speaker 5 (23:22):
Usually.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yeah, so she you that is super cool that she
was able to get to a point where she was
comfortable in a like a really dynamic environment, which is
like a training like center or dog training facility is
really ever changing.
Speaker 5 (23:39):
She really needed a job, so of course, like once
she realized that she had to learn this stuff in
order to be able to do this job. I mean,
she she really took to it, she really loved it.
And then you know, I mean I gave her the
freedom as you would any coworker. You know, I didn't say, Okay,
you ready to go to work, and she'd run upstairs
and dive into the bed and under the covers, and
I'm like, okay, I guess you're not going to work today.
(24:00):
I say personal days. Yeah. So she, uh, she worked
really hard and unfortunately, like she was kind of my
my experimental dog, and she died really young. She got
really sick all of a sudden, and we think that
that is probably due to the amount of stress that
she was in. So that just kind of doubled my efforts.
I had already at that point started Gen's dogs, and
(24:23):
so I was able. That's why was because I needed
to be able to get out of underneath somebody else's
curriculum and somebody else's thumb so that I could develop
my own curriculum and my own where I could actually
get to where people who needed me and be able
to help them.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
What I do.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
How does working with a reactive dog today impact the
methods that you use.
Speaker 5 (24:48):
I'm force free and i'm positive reinforcement. But really we
start with that first, a vet check. You know, we
have a long conversation, we break it down, we talk
about all the behavior that's happening, and then we start
with a vet check. What's going on is a sudden
you know, do you have a clear idea of when
(25:08):
this started? And if you don't and it just seemed
to come out of the blue, let's get a vet check.
Make sure there's no pain. Because I don't know about
anyone else, but if I'm in pain, I don't have
any spoons to be nice to anybody. So, you know,
we'll get a vet check, and then then we'll start
with just the management. You know, a lot of times
when people come to me, they've like done so much,
(25:30):
and they're doing so much, but it's not necessarily effective.
So we fine tune and tweak their management so we
can prevent any of the reactive behavior, dangerous behavior, or
fear that the dog is experiencing. And we just tweak
it so that they just start to feel a little
bit more comfortable and they're not triggered. We reduce their
triggers so that they're not getting these stress hormones released
(25:52):
in their brain repeatedly. And then of course, you know,
we just try to have fun, like find some things
that you guys like to do together. Let's looking at
our dogs as what they are, which is a different
species and all of these things that confuse them about us.
Let's start. Let's start helping them to have species typical
outlets for their behavior. And let's make sure that the
(26:14):
reason why they are acting out is not from unmet needs,
and I would be their needs. And then sometimes I'll
do a little bit of task training just to give
the guardians like a really quick, like immediate action to
be able to interrupt or redirect or to give immediate relief,
so if they just start to feel like they have
something that they can do. And then we start working
(26:37):
on their emotional regulation piece, and that part gets pretty tricky.
You know, it's therapy.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
It's tricky for humans. So I can only imagine like
I'm raising two small children and there is zero emotional regulation,
and so they understand and I can reason with them
right like this is I know it's been a long day,
but you know we need to go see your great
grandmother or whatever. I can't reason with a dog like that,
So it's got to be a challenge. And do you
(27:04):
find that the pet parents, the guardians of reactive dogs
that work with you take a while to kind of
understand where their dogs are based on maybe like preconceived
notions of what dogs are and how they operate.
Speaker 5 (27:18):
Sometimes it comes in waves. It comes in waves. So
sometimes there's the initial contact and then you know, we
have the this is what we what we do, and
then like maybe because they're just like a little bit
more mindful of it, so they're like really paying attention
to what's going on with their dog, and so then
they like they might have a little bit of a
relief from the reactivity or the fear base or whatever.
Then they're like, oh, they'll like kind of put off
(27:40):
like starting their program or whatever, and then like the
behaviors of the triggers sack up again. And then they
finally like they're like they take the plunge and then
they're like they're like, Okay, this all makes sense. This
all makes sense. This all makes sense. And then and
then like something will happen that's just kind of like
out in left field. They don't see the connectivity of it,
and so then they're like, this is not related, and
(28:01):
I'm like, it is, but it's like a constant thing
like something else, you know, for me when I learned,
when I went through the process of learning, and when
I read the books like about even like neurobiology and
all of this other stuff and how dogs think and
ethology and all of this stuff that we all of
(28:21):
these extress factor and jogs was the one that I
just read. It's like all these little light bulbs just
this kind of go off, and I'm like, oh, that
makes sense now, you know, like just kind of fills
in like the different puzzle pieces. And that's kind of
what I really help the guardians with because my programs
are not like I come in and just tell you
what to do, right, to talk about this is where
we are and that's where we want to be. Here's
(28:43):
some suggestions like how do you how can you get there?
And I just help them to kind of adjust the
way that they look at their dogs. And it comes
in ways. Sometimes they're like I'm ready to throw out
everything I know and you just mould me from fresh clay.
And sometimes they're like really really like already been fired,
like you know, through the kiln and it's like, now
(29:04):
I gotta like find a way to like kind of
chip off this part and then glew it back together.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Yeah. Well, I think that if you haven't, if a
guardian hasn't had a reactive dog, they have no idea
what a reactive dog, the impact that a reactive dog
can have on the life, the harmony of the home.
I had a reactive dog and it was constant stress,
and I waited too long to muzzle train her. I've
talked about this before, and I worked with a lot
(29:31):
of trainers and one of the things that we did
wrong first was use aversives for her. She was six
months old and I didn't know any better at the time.
This was a very long time ago, and you know,
I can look back and see all the things I
did wrong and all the things I could have done better.
But now, if I were to encounter another reactive dog,
first of all, I'd try to avoid it because it
(29:52):
is a lot. But second, let's say I just happened
to end up with a reactive dog, I would know
be bet ter what to expect because I really went
from like passive, assertive fun dogs dogs that ram the
Gamut never had a reactive dog really to the point
where they were not able to really comfortably be in public.
(30:15):
And then I got socks and it was like whoa.
And I think that happens to a lot of people
with their first reactive dog. And I think it's probably
hard for you to convince the people who have had
twenty dogs that this is not that unusual. You just
have been lucky thus far, yep, and now you need
a different approach. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (30:34):
The big thing that I kind of point out is
that the environment that people are living in now is
completely different. The genetics of their dogs is slightly different,
the learning of their current dog is different, you know,
and the self like the personality, so like, there's a
lot that goes into that. I just I don't usually,
you know, focus too much on like, you know, everything
(30:57):
that we've been And there's also like new science, right there's, right,
the biggest challenges that people have had this long history
of the past fifty years or so of being told
this is the way a dog is. They don't have emotions,
they don't have you know, they just they're just subservient.
You have to be you know, all of these you know,
(31:18):
myths or studies that have been that never really happened,
these like ideas, and then you know the that have
been debumped, you know, like dominance, Siri and Alpha. There's
just a lot of people that when they have a
reactive dog, they think they just have to be firmer
and more and more and more, and like like you said,
like I did, the same thing went with Raisin. You know,
(31:39):
when I was a baby trainer, you know, she came
with a shot collar for barking, and I didn't know,
you know, I didn't I didn't know. You know, I
would never forget the day that that we stopped using
the bark collar. You know, it was one that it
started with like a little vibration and then if like
within ten seconds there was another sound, it would go
(32:00):
to level one, and then in ten seconds it would
go to level two, and then in ten seconds if
there was still barking, it would just continue to increase.
And one day, like she had it on and she
gave a bark and it vibrated and it surprised her,
so she whined. So it did level one and then
(32:21):
she ran away and I was calling her and she
wasn't making noise.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
I was calling her.
Speaker 5 (32:27):
So it went to level two and then at that
point it was it was fairly old and so then
it like the sound of the vibration of the shock
set it off to a flour and then she yelped.
So it went to five and then before we even
within like thirty seconds, it seemed like it was already
up to like the fullest and she was like running
(32:49):
away from it. I couldn't get to her, and it
was just like and I just like finally got her
and she was just a puddle on the floor. Oh,
and I was like, oh god, what, yeah has happened?
And I felt so bad. And you know, we all
we all make mistakes. We only know what we know
(33:12):
until we grow and so yeah, we just you know,
that's what are you supposed to to do? So we
get that's what the general idea of dogs is is
that you have to be bigger, meaner, stronger than then
for all of this, right, Like you have to do
it and that's a hard one, that's what they People
(33:34):
feel that way. But they're doing this and they feel
the way that I do. They're like, this doesn't feel right. Yeah,
all the same, I was working with a dog trainer.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
Yeah, I was working with a dog trainer with a
shot collar and like an e fence, an electric fence,
And I was training with with one dog in the
front and my then partner was training with the other
dog in the back, and I could hear the dog
in the back yelping when every time he crossed the threshold,
and I was just like, shut it down, shut it down. Yeah,
I don't know anything, but I know that this is
(34:02):
not it. And so we luckily, like at some point
stopped it. But I think we had already done some
damage by, you know, putting a reactive dog in a
situation where she was super confused as to why she
was getting shocked and pup up, up, up buck, because again,
context is everything, and I couldn't explain the context to her.
So I mean, there are excellent dog trainers out there.
There are lots of methods out there. I know so
(34:25):
many everybody who's been on my show. I would endorse
as a dog trainer for anybody who was looking to
work with somebody. But I obviously a lot of pet
parents guardians don't know what to look for in a
dog trainer. So I'm going to point out all of
the acronyms that you have listed by your name. Yeah,
would you mind telling us what they are and why
they're important to you?
Speaker 5 (34:47):
Sure? So I'll start with while they're important to me,
And the big reason why they're important to me is
because the pet industry is completely unregulated. The actually not completely.
If you're doing pet food, there's a a lot of
regulations on that, but if you're actually working with the living,
breathing animal in front of you, there's no regulation. So
(35:08):
literally anyone can start a business and a lot of
people in the peat industry they don't even get a
register in LLC or get insurance. So the reason why
my certifications are important to me is because it shows
that I have taken the time to get learning and
(35:30):
to prove that I know and get testing that I
know what I'm doing, so that it gives the clients
a some protection. That's really what all of licensing is
all about, is it gives the consumer protection. So if
something that I do is outside of the ethics of
the organization, I can be reported and I can have
(35:53):
my certifications taken away. Of course I can still do business,
but that's why it's important to me. So I am
a cd CCA that's as certified Behavior Consultant K nine
Knowledge Assessed. I'm a cpdt KA, which is a Certified
Professional Dog Trainer Knowledge Assessed, and both of those are
(36:13):
through the Certification Council of Professional Dog Trainers, which is
an international organization, and that is strictly a testing organization.
All they do is they just test your knowledge, so
you don't have to you do agree to follow what
they call LIMA, which is very at least intrusive mentally aversive,
(36:35):
and that is what we follow through those that betcheck
is first, and then management and meeting species typical needs
as positive reinforcement and so forth. Does not endorse positive punishment.
If it's the like a roadmap, and before the positive
punishment methods there's a huge stop sign, so it means
(36:56):
that we're going to start from the lowest end and
we're going to work our way, and that's as far
as we're going to go. But if you are following those,
then you don't ever have to go any further. Really,
they're not guiding principles as far as the they're not
going to tell you what methods to use. All they're
doing is making sure that you understand learning theory, ethology,
(37:17):
and your neurobiology of dogs and behavior of dogs, emotions
of dogs, all of that stuff. So for professional dog
training and for behavior consulting. The last one is a
certified FDM. That's Family Dog Mediator and that's a program
that is offered through Kim Brophy, is designed by her.
(37:38):
She's an mythologist. She does how you can also become
a licensed FDM. I haven't taken that step yet, but
really that means that that is a teaching course, a
learning course that I took with testing throughout in order
to gain that certification and pass. And the big thing
about the FDM model is the legs model. So you're
(37:59):
looking at a dog on all four legs, and that's
the learning of the dog, the environment the dog lives in,
the genetics of the dog, and then the self like
who is the dog outside of those things? So it's
not a necessarily a training certification that one. That one
just says that I understand the mythology of your dog
(38:22):
a little bit better. Yeah, so I'm able to help you,
Like why why is your German Shepherd barking at everybody? Yeah?
You know? Why is your Golden.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Retriever always has something in its mouth? We're putting things
into context for us humans. Yes, I feel like that
is this is new to me. FDM is new to me,
which is one of the reasons I wanted to ask
you about that. I had not heard of that training program.
I love the four legs idea. I love the it
sounds more holistic than just the brain, because the brain
(38:52):
is one part. We can't control the brain. We can, however,
sometimes control the environment. So there's a lot at play,
and I that there are different aspects. I want to
invite you to play a second game with me, which
is a perfect segue, because this is called quip and Fetch.
And while you have been trained by excellent dog trainers,
(39:13):
and I'm sure you've mentored many yourself, there are some
quips that you are using, that you have used on
your social media that called my attention, and they're cute
and they're fun, and they're they're really I find them
to be really intentional and positive, so I can't include them.
And some of these are by you, and some of
(39:33):
these are by your team. So the first one I
got in this Quip and Fetch is from Sarah, one
of your dog trainers, that says, be patient with yourself
what does that mean to you as a dog trainer.
Speaker 5 (39:45):
So to be patient with yourself, you have to give
yourself grace and slow yourself down. As humans, we have
a tendency that as soon as we do something once,
or we teach something once, or we see a dog
do something once, we just say okay, you can do it,
and then we immediately raise the criteria and then we go, oh, wait, wait,
(40:09):
and we're confused why they don't know how to sit
for five minutes when we just taught about to sit
for one second. So be patient with yourself and keep it,
keep it slow so that you allow yourself the time
to build good, healthy habits. But also understand that you're
going to make mistakes. So when you make mistakes, like now,
(40:33):
am I done to sit for five minutes? Even though
I just taught them to sit for one second? Like,
understand that that's a common mistake that humans make. And
you know, have that grace and patience with yourself. Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
I mean no human I know has ever been told
to do something one time and got it immediately, Like
I have asked my husband to unload the dishwasher a
certain way every single day of our existence, and it's
still not being unloaded the way that I think is
the best way to do it. And we're both of
the same age, about the same education level and all that.
(41:06):
So when he tells me also about something that I
have no interest in, I'm not going to learn it
immediately because I don't like football, I don't care, I
don't know, I don't care. And so you can tell
me once, you can tell me ten times. If you
don't put in a context that I understand and care about,
I'm not gonna get it. So, yes, patients all around,
for sure, all right, Shay said, And training sessions on
(41:29):
a positive.
Speaker 5 (41:30):
Note, m h absolutely, Why is that important? Because if
it wasn't fun, you're not gonna do it again, and
if you weren't successful, you're not gonna do it again.
You know, Like that's just really important. And that's also
a good reminder to end while it's still fun and
that you are still successful. Yeah, training fatigue and practice
(41:52):
fatigue is a real thing. And so if you're pushing
your dog and you're not or you're pushing yourself and
you're not recognizing the signs that you're starting to get fatigued,
then it's gonna end, and you're gonna be like, well,
that was awful, and then what's going to happen the
next time you want to train?
Speaker 2 (42:10):
You're not gonna want to whoa, it's gonna be such
a drag. Yeah, really like celebrating and then calling it
quits for that one time. You said in one of
your quotes or quips, is set one goal at a time?
Speaker 5 (42:24):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. You can only really do as much
as you know the workforce, uh and and all of
us entrepreneurs want to think that we're really great at multitasking. Essentially,
we really only can do one thing at a time,
so you might as well put your all into this
one thing and then then move on and break it down.
(42:46):
You think as having your dog sit for five minutes
is one goal. That's not that's not really it's not.
That's like a thousand goals, all right, multi to one.
Your first goal should be to set for one second
and then maybe sit for five seconds and break it
down into one goal at a time.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
I love that. Yes, Rome was not built in a day, right,
so neither is your dog. Your dog's training is not
gonna happen like this. Safety first fun always tell us
about that.
Speaker 5 (43:16):
Oh. Yes, Well, many people who you know, what do
you call them adrenaline junkies and they want to go
in bungee jump and free and jump off of the
skydive and do all of that stuff. Yeah, I bet
they're doing it with a lot of safety protocols in place,
whether they want to admit it or not. So if
(43:37):
you're doing something that's dangerous where there's potential for harm,
then it's really not going to be that fun, no
matter how scared you want to be, because if you
hurt yourself, that's really not going to be fun. Yes,
so always always make sure that you're playing it safe
whether you are. And dogs, you know, they they have
(43:58):
emotions and they can get overwhelm and you know, safety
doesn't always mean like muzzle training a dog who might
bite or pick up things that they're not supposed to,
like eating rocks. It also could just be being safe
with your connection with your dog and ending on that
positive note so that you're not getting into a dangerous
(44:21):
territory and damaging your relationship or that you feel insecure.
If your dog is like we all of a sudden
not listening to you, that damages your relationship.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
Yeah, and I was immediately thought about like a safe environment, right,
like if they're learning something and there's just like a
trash truck booming down the street or you know, a
child crying like environment, Like if they don't feel safe
in that environment, that probably isn't the best place to train.
And I feel the same way with like my kids
(44:53):
or with myself, like if if you're if I'm gonna
learn something, it's not gonna be when I feel like
my life is that we're like I'm not gonna learn anything.
I'm gonna be completely shut down, survival mode. Save me please.
So I think it's really important to remind people that
safety is not just about how we feel safe with
interacting with our dogs, but how they feel in their
(45:13):
environment and with us. Like you said that bond that's
so important. Then you say happy dogs, happier homes. Tell
us about that philosophy seems simple enough.
Speaker 5 (45:24):
My dogs are not happy and they're mad and they're
yelling and everything. I mean, heightened emotions are contagious. You know,
it goes in the same vein of like if everybody
else in the house is happy, then they're gonna be
content and they're not gonna bother.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
It's true. Heightened emotions are contagious. I love that. That
is such a good you see, you're good at these
little quips, these little reminders. I like this. Train hard,
rest easy.
Speaker 5 (45:50):
Oh yeah, that one's a good one. That's all about balance,
you know, you know, training hard. Let's everybody thinks, oh,
we've gotta work our dogs. You know, we've got to
exercise our dog. Tired dogs a good dog. That doesn't
mean necessarily run them and turn them into athletes. But
if you train diligently and you really are careful with
(46:11):
your training, then your dog builds safety and security in
knowing exactly what the clear path to success is. So
they feel comfortable, confident and safe to be able to
take a nap and rest because they know what the
rules are. So being able to, you know, be diligent
about your training just allows for everyone to know where
(46:32):
the boundaries are.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
Yeah, consistency and safety kind of go hand in hand.
Or paw and pie if you will last one eager
minds wagging tails.
Speaker 5 (46:42):
Oh yeah, puppies especially, but dogs in general, you know,
they want to learn. You know, what is it that
people usually say the dog wants to please us? They
just they want to be successful. They know they live
in a human habitat, and they really are designed for
twenty years, twenty thousand years to like be our companions,
(47:04):
so they want to work with us. They just waiting
for you to tell them what to do. And especially
now in this environment, like it becomes fewer and fewer
and fewer people have working dogs or jobs for their
working dogs. But we have working.
Speaker 2 (47:19):
Dogs dogs I have.
Speaker 5 (47:21):
I have two working line dogs. I have a long
coat donation and an English lab you know, so thankfully,
like they have eured out their jobs. Well, Basil's still
the puppy, but you know, they just are waiting to
know what is our job? What are we supposed to do?
Tell us what to do? And they are little sponges,
so you know, there's so much that you can teach them,
(47:44):
and that again just leads to a clear path to
success and they're happy to work. That goes in with
that balance too. It's not just like let's run as
much as we can. Let's work our minds, you know, yes, yes,
work has like.
Speaker 2 (47:59):
This annotation in the human world where it's like physical
labor or like intense like you know, data entry or whatever.
The work is and for dogs it could be as
something as as minor is, like foraging right for like
their food, Like that could be work for them, something
as simple as that or or yes, like nose work
outside or agility training or barn hunt or a million
(48:22):
different things out there that most pet parents aren't even
aware of. But like at something at home is just
taking a walk and letting them sniff or whatever to
like get their mind going. And it's and it's interesting
because I too have two working dogs, and like, yeah,
they don't have a job other than to wait for
me for our walk every afternoon. Now this time of year,
it's in the afternoon. In the summer, it's in the morning,
(48:44):
and like that is they take that job so seriously
and they are not pleased with the day until that
work is done. It's like they punch in for the walk,
they punch out, and now everything's cool. But until that happens,
it is definitely on the agency and they will not
forget about it. So it's interesting how you said we
all have working dogs, but we're not working them, And
(49:06):
it really is something to consider when you're adopting a pet.
Are you able to give this dog the work that
it's bred for you know, millennia or however long to.
Speaker 5 (49:17):
Do whatever that word was or whatever that was, whatever
that time, all these thousand years.
Speaker 2 (49:22):
Yeah, all right, So you have team members at Gen's
Dogs and I just said, Jen, so drink up people
if you're playing the game. So tell us how do
you choose dog trainers to join your team? Do they
come with experience? Do you train them? How does that work?
Speaker 5 (49:41):
So it's really it's actually very very difficult. It's a
lot more difficult than I thought. And I'm very very
lucky to have Sarah and Shay as my junior trainer
is right now. And both of them I found a clients.
They came to me, Well, Sarah. She actually I've known
(50:03):
Sarah for several years. She owns her own business. She
runs a shop that specializes in enrichment toys and she
makes she makes them and she carries them and she
and that's how I knew her because she makes the
best snuffle mats.
Speaker 2 (50:19):
Cool, you got to give me her info, give me
her info before we log off.
Speaker 5 (50:23):
Yeah, She's like, she'll be really mad if she gets
one hundred orders because she can't make him buck back.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
But I'll give you.
Speaker 5 (50:31):
Her invo so she but she has other product lines,
and so that's how I knew her. And then she
got a puppy and she came in and I was
just watching how she worked with her puppy, and so
then I was just kind of like, I don't know,
I just got a gut feeling and I was like,
you never thought about being a dog trainer? And she
was like, I've always wanted to do that. So I
(50:53):
just brought her on in and and and taught her.
You know, she teached they teach Basic Manners line level
zero through four. But then Shaye was also a client.
She had her dog, and they have a lot of
dogs that we were living together, and they were all
(51:14):
starting to get just a little bit overwhelmed and weren't
really getting along. So she was in one of my
specialty services. And over that time of me being there
with her and seeing how much she worked with her dog,
because there were multiple family members that had multiple dogs
living all together. So wow, seeing how much she worked
with her dog and how much she loved it. And
(51:36):
then she has a horse, and she spent so much
time in four h and I just over time, I
just realized that this was something that she was maybe
trying to break into, and so out of all of us,
even though I have all these certifications and I've done
all this reading and this research, and I specialized in
big emotions. As far as trainers go, Shay is actually
(51:57):
our most qualified because she's trained rabbits and and horses
and so she's done multi species and so then she
she's come on and she's been fantastic, uh, because she
already understood horse training, So it was really easy to
kind of make those correlations for her into dog training.
Speaker 2 (52:23):
Your facility does in like in person dog training, and
you offer group classes. If you don't follow Gens Dogs
on Instagram, go ahead and follow them there's you have
great pictures of the actual classes going on. Do you
ever work with anybody outside of your immediate area?
Speaker 5 (52:40):
Yes, So all of the group classes and our basic
manners private sessions are all held at the Gens Dogs
Training Studio here in Forrest Grove, and those are all
taught by Sarah and Shay. They they offer all of
those classes. I specialize in the big emotions, the fear, aggression, reactivity,
dangerous behavior, and so for me, I work predominantly in
(53:04):
home and I do a lot of virtual as well,
so even if for people who are not in my
area or the biggest issue is dogs that won't let
people come in the house, that we really have no
choice but to do virtual, So I offer virtual and
then we also have our group class is now being
(53:27):
offered as virtual as well. Super cool.
Speaker 2 (53:31):
How effective is virtual training in these situations, whether it's
group or individual, it's actually just as effective as in person,
you know, because we are essentially you know, together, live
in these virtual situations and I'm able to see everything.
Speaker 5 (53:47):
Especially now there's not usually any delay, so it's not
like it used to be where you're like, Okay, they
did something, and then I have to wait, you know,
the fifteen second drag to see what's happening before I
give feedback. Like it's pretty east is that this? Yeah,
technology is making it easier. Yeah, it really hasn't. And
you know, they all of the platforms now they drown
(54:08):
out background noise, so I don't have to worry about,
you know, if my dogs are doing anything, or anybody's
like anything, any noises around are happening. And as long
as the biggest thing is that I'm just not there
to show people with their dog. But I have tons
of video that I show of examples. Uh, so I
(54:30):
already have all that like queued up and ready, so
they're able to watch that. I'm able to walk them
through it. We let them do the thing and then
we talk about it, and then we do the thing
and then we talk about it. So as long as
as people are able to have a setup where they
can set their camera where I can see the dog
and them, then we're we're able to do that. Sometimes
(54:52):
I will utilize if we have like a helper, you know,
if I'm not there, if they're outside my area, or
they don't really really it doesn't matter if I can
come in the house. They really just want to make
sure like their friend or their sitter or a family
member can come in the house. Then I'll like text
the fit the helper, oh nice on the zoom with
(55:13):
so I'm able to orchestrate everybody all at once. So yeah,
so it's actually just as effective as being live. That's
perfect everybody time. A lot of people really feel a
lot better. Sometimes when I show up with people's houses,
you can tell they've like felt really stressed and they've
like because I'm coming into their personal space. So they
cleaned their house like immediately before me getting there. And
(55:36):
now they're all like, oh no, she's gonna see what.
I have dog hair on the floor, And I'm like,
so do what. We don't care, We don't care. Yeah,
I remember that as a pet sitter.
Speaker 2 (55:47):
Like the initial meet and greet was always like you
could see they were flustered trying to get everything ready.
And then after the relationship was established, like I could
see how they actually live and I was like, just live,
just live. The whole point is because convenience of us
coming to you where you are, figuring it out where
you're at.
Speaker 5 (56:04):
So yeah, so.
Speaker 2 (56:05):
Tell me how can my audience learn more about you,
your team and Gen's Dogs.
Speaker 5 (56:10):
So, as you've mentioned several times, thank you. Our Instagram
is a great way to see what we're doing, what
we have done, as well as any upcoming classes that
we have. Our website is Gensdogs dot com. That's j E.
N Nsdogs dot com. That lists all of the services
(56:33):
that we have. Pretty much everything that we if, we
do is all on our website and our Facebook mimics
our Instagram, so perfect.
Speaker 2 (56:44):
All right, Well, I just want to propose a toast
to you for being so awesome for educating us on
how important context is. Cheers. I also want to propose
a toast to my executive producer Mark Winter at Like
Radio and to all of you for joining us today.
Thank you for spending some time checking in on these
amazing guests that I bring you. I hope you enjoyed
as much as I do. Here's to a life covered
(57:05):
in pet hair, because there's no better way to live.
Speaker 1 (57:08):
Here.
Speaker 2 (57:09):
To learn more about Covered in pet Hair, please visit
Covered in Petair dot com or pet life Radio dot com.
Thank you so much for watching, for tuning in, and
I will see you next week. No, that's a lie.
Speaker 5 (57:21):
I will not see you next week because next week
I'm on a cruise with.
Speaker 2 (57:24):
The Texas Pet Sitters Association. We're having the tenth Annual
Texas Pet Sitters Conference on a cruise I am seeing,
I'm presenting a few sessions, and I will be cruising
to Cosamel next Thursday, so I'll see you the following week.
Thank you again for watching. Thank you Jen so much
(57:46):
for joining me, and I hope you guys all have
a great rest of the week. Thanks again.
Speaker 4 (57:51):
Welcome. Let's talk pets every week on demand only on
petlife radio dot com
This is pet Life Radio. Let's Talk Pets.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Welcome to Covered in pet Hair, a booby show for
pet lovers on pet Life Radio. I'm your host Isabelle Albazarata,
and today I have the pleasure of having a drink
in a chat with a certified Times three dog trainer
who is gonna tell us all about how context matters
when we communicate with our dogs. Don't go anywhere. I
will tell you all about her and introduce you eston.
(00:43):
Has we come back from these messages from our sponsors.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Take a bite out of your competition. Advertise your business
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Speaker 4 (01:30):
Let's Talk Pets on Petlifradio dot com.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Welcome back to Covered in pet Haair. I'm your host
Isabelle Albert, Gerana, and today I'm having a chat about
contacts and communication with our dogs with Jen Freedblind, who
is the founder of Jen's Dogs. She is wife to Curtis.
She is dog mom to three dogs wait for these names, Guys, Shadow,
(02:03):
Von Wigglesink, Little Lily with the spots, Sir Basil of Waggington.
Those are her three dogs. She is the founder and
head trainer at Jen's Dogs. She is Jennifer Freedline. Welcome.
It's so good to have you on the show, Teh.
Speaker 5 (02:17):
Thank you so much, glad to be here.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Well, she is the founder behind Jen's Dogs on social media,
so if you don't follow her, give her a follow.
Hello Brook, Hello Joe, and thank you for joining us
on Instagram. Let's see if I see anybody on Facebook
and YouTube that I recognize.
Speaker 5 (02:35):
Well.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
I always start this show with the game, and the
most important game is our drinking game. So anybody at
home participating in our drinking game. Today's drinking game word
is the secret word is Jen. So if I say that,
take a drink of whatever you're joining it could be
alcoholic beverage, a non alcoholic beverage, a coffee of tea,
(02:58):
a soda, whatever you're drinking. Just play along. It's fun
to be engaged while we chat. And I know that
you are a wine lover. Did you have a chance
to pour yourself a glass of wine before we went live?
Speaker 5 (03:10):
I did?
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Indeed, Yes, she did.
Speaker 5 (03:12):
Good.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yeah, Like I love wine too. And you're in Oregon,
so I'm sure you have a ton of wineries to visit.
Speaker 5 (03:19):
Oh yes, oh yeah, so right in the middle of
wine country. It's great.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Oh I'm so jealous. I'm so jealous. I live in Olpasers,
so I have cacti. I don't have wine. I don't
have a lot of produce. I mean we can drive
to it, but here locally we don't have any wine.
But I mean i get to taste amazing tequila, so
I'm not one to complain. But I today needed a
little boost. So I'm having a gatahillyo, which, for those
of you who are from Spain, are familiar. In Spain,
(03:45):
when you order a gottahilo, it's usually served in like
a tiny es bristol cup with a shot of whatever
liquor you want. Here an Alpasso. Every time I order one,
they bring it iceed and with liquor forty three. So
that's how I made it today because I needed a
little boot.
Speaker 5 (04:00):
Cheers.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Thank you for being my guest, Thanks for being on
the show. I'm so excited to chat with you about
something that is really important, something that I think people
get wrong a lot, and it's communication with dogs, just
interacting with dogs. And I don't mean like telepathic animal communication.
(04:21):
I mean just like regular old I want you to
do this, and the dogs looking at you like what is?
What is? What is happening right now? So our first
game today is called Dogs Speak and it's things humans
do that dogs don't understand. And it's taken mostly from
a University of Sydney a blog post about eight things
(04:43):
we do that really confuse our dogs. Are you ready
to play? Yeah?
Speaker 5 (04:46):
Ready?
Speaker 2 (04:47):
All right? We leave them alone? Why does that confuse
our dogs?
Speaker 5 (04:54):
Oh? Well, they're social. They're very social creatures. And they
also don't understand why we want to go. Like they
don't understand work, but they don't understand like driving. They
don't understand like going out to eat. They might understand
that a little bit because they might go to like
somewhere else to forage. But they don't really understand what we're.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Doing when we leave.
Speaker 5 (05:19):
They don't know we come back smelling like. They don't
get up these smiles and people and things and places.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Yes, actually that brings me to my next one. The
next one is we change our shape and smell.
Speaker 5 (05:31):
Oh yeah, yeah, so our fundamental smell can actually change
not only by what we're eating, how we're feeling, but
also what we're wearing and where we went.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Yes, exactly. How about we watch TV and other visual stimuli.
They don't get that, according to this article.
Speaker 5 (05:49):
Actually now they do. Our TVs are so pixelated that
it moves fast enough for their eyes to pick up
on it, which is why you may notice increase of
dogs who are watching TV. In fact, my dog's favorite shows,
well shadows of Lily's favorite show is Bluey, but Basil
the Baby prefers Lord of the Rings.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
You know, I've only had one pet that enjoyed the TV,
and it was a cat. Yeah, otherwise they paid no
attention to it. But I remember pet sitting two puggles
that everything that happened on the TV, they were super
aware of it. They saw a dog, they would bark
they saw, you know, a door, they'd look like, who's there.
It was really fun to watch because they were in
my house and I was not used to it. I
(06:31):
also felt like I was stressing them out, like should
I turn this off? All right? The next one is
we hug.
Speaker 5 (06:37):
Yeah, Hugging is not not necessarily something that really falls
to dogs, just because their bodies are structured differently, so
they do understand the like pressing of bodies together. They
just don't understand because we move our arms differently than
they do. So some dogs will actually pick up that
(06:58):
trait and hug as they're trying to mimic us. But
they do like to be close like that.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Yes, they like to snuggle for sure. Yeah, okay. One
thing that the article said that made me laugh is
we don't like to be bitten.
Speaker 5 (07:14):
Usually dogs don't get that.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Dogs are like why not?
Speaker 5 (07:17):
You know, I don't really I don't really know if
I would say that dogs particularly like to be bitten either.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Well, like more I guess think it's more mouthing like
you know, how they play bite each other and like,
we don't like to be slobbered on each other, but
they kind of amongst each other will slobber and play bite,
And honestly, I agree with the article. I don't like
to be bit when puppies are little and they have
those sharp little teeth like vampires like. I don't enjoy
that at all. But I always thought that dogs didn't.
Speaker 5 (07:46):
Like it either. So do dogs like to be mouth
I think that they like to be mouthed only in play.
It's kind of like I don't necessarily like people to
like touch me or grab me or hold me all
the time, but when I'm like asking for like a
wrestle matchers of sorts, that I do like it. So
(08:07):
I think that dogs don't only like it in that context.
That's a very like exactly context dependent.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Yes, well, I think context is really important in all
of this, right, Like context always matters, and like our
context and their context is always going to be different completely.
Speaker 5 (08:25):
We're like practically two different worlds because we both experience
it differently.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
So, yes, we experience this differently, which is we don't
eat from the trash. They don't get it.
Speaker 5 (08:38):
No, They're like, why did you throw away all of
this perfectly good stuff? And that's what the one of
the things that really is probably most misunderstood about dogs.
They share so much DNA with wolves that people naturally
assume that they're all hunters and and prey drive is
definitely a thing for dogs, But they're scavengers. Their whole
(09:02):
like drive is to feet and to steal end of
forage and scavenge. So you know, like if all the
humans disappeared, you know today, you would not find the
all of the dogs out in the woods. You'd find
some of them out in the woods. You'd find all
the terriers, like going to get all the rodents. But
you know, for the most part, the rest of them,
(09:23):
they would be going from dumpster to dumpster looking for food.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Yes, opportunists. Yeah, absolutely, I completely agree. Okay, so this
one was interesting. We share territories and they don't get
it with other humans. With other dogs, we all like
kind of encroach on each other, and in their minds
it's like, how dare you?
Speaker 5 (09:45):
I don't know if I agree with that one. I
think that they they live in family units and they
make friends, and they think that they just like ask
we like to have our separate houses, separate rooms, separate spaces.
But I think that most dogs have a lot of
really common areas like dog parks sidewalks.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
They're comfortable with that idea.
Speaker 5 (10:05):
Yeah, I think so, because it's not really They might
get a little bit threatened if they feel like somebody
is getting in their space, but like if I'm sitting
on the couch and you came to sit on my lap,
I'd probably like have the snap re action as a dog.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Again, it's all about context. Agreed. Well, I know I'm
guilty of this. We use our hands a lot.
Speaker 5 (10:25):
Yeah, yeah, they don't, you know, they don't have hands.
Some dogs will use their paws a lot. Yeah, some
dogs that are more more posy, and some dogs that
are more use their nose so there's snout more. But yeah,
mostly because they just don't don't have hands. So they
also don't really know what we're doing, and they and
(10:45):
they go so far that they like it can be surprising.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
My mom had a neighbor in Florida that was like
so over the top and like we still talk to her,
we still love her. Her name is Grace and she
is just like a walk like just entertainment like performance,
and every time any dog met her, you could see
them kind of like every time her hands moved, they'd
be like because they didn't know what she was doing,
(11:11):
and she was just so enthusiastic with her hand movement.
So if you are one of those people, and there
are many of us out there, when you meet a
new dog, maybe it's best to kind of like tone
it down a little bit, only use your voice. Would
you recommend that, would you agree.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
To some extent? To some extent, but I really would
only do that if you notice that a dog is
startled by your movement. Otherwise, be natural would be you,
because if you start changing, if you're like, okay, I'm
gonna like sit here with my arms down to my
side and I'm gonna like hold my hands like this,
and I'm gonna like be up like this, the dog,
(11:45):
we're gonna be like, why are you so tits? What's
going on?
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Maybe it's, as I say.
Speaker 5 (11:49):
Be natural, unless you like notice a dog is reacting
to your hands speak, and then you can say, oh, okay,
I'll just like it a little quieter.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
I like that. I've never heard it called hands speak.
I do a lot of hand speaking, so I get
it all right. Next one, speaking of things that are
a little over the top, yelling, yelling in communication amongst.
Speaker 5 (12:14):
Each other, I mean dogs bark at each other and
I usually call that yelling.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Yeah, so you think that they get it.
Speaker 5 (12:20):
I think we do because like a lot of times,
if my dogs are well, for my dogs, you know,
every time they're they're yelling or they're barking, it's usually
because somebody's yelling outside. Yeah, They're like, oh, you're you're
gonna bark, so I'm gonna bark.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
I love when people yell at their dogs for barking,
and now everybody's yelling. And I always tell my husband
because my husband is and I've said this before and
he will not be surprised to be here because again
that he's like the worst dog trainer I've ever encountered,
and like it leads over to his parenting too. I'll
be like, that is not like you're missing the point,
(12:55):
like when you yell at them for yelling, like I
feel like nobody's really learning any thing right. And it
happens with both our dogs. He doesn't really discipline our cat,
like our cat has carte blanche here from all of us,
but like yelling that the barking dog definitely doesn't make sense.
And another thing he does, which is next on my
list is lecturing dogs like he'll I remember we had
(13:16):
we had a dog named Radar who was like this
was like this dog was just like the best, and
he was like the boss of all the dogs. And
Chris would say to him, young man, and I would
look at him, like, who are you talking to? So lecturing?
Does that does that make any impact our on our
dogs at all?
Speaker 5 (13:35):
Yes, the probably not in the way that we actually
think it does. So like there's a reason why my
dogs have long names that I could call them, but
they're ug names lecturing. And I also, you know, sometimes
we those lectures I call them when I talked to
my dogs, I call them a come to gen talc.
So that it's a you know, we're gonna sit here,
(13:58):
we're gonna talk about it about you know why I
have an issue, and it's Morstley is just a way
for us to kind of reason it out. The dogs
may or may not understand. They probably understand more words
than we give them credit for, and there's no way
to really truly test if they know the words or not,
but they recognize intent. So if you're like talking to
(14:20):
them and you're really earnest and you're like, okay, look,
I really don't like being fit. I really don't like this.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
I don't like that.
Speaker 5 (14:26):
I don't like this. They're gonna sit there and they're
gonna look at you and be like and feel this
like you're serious. They're just gonna be able to like
kind of pick up on you know, your intent. They
have no idea what you're saying. It might sound like,
you know, like the wah wah wanh wanh want, but
they for a minute, you know, like Basil, he you know,
he's seven months old right now, so we have these
(14:47):
talks and then he looks all like curious and like
labby and he's all like, I'm sorry, and then he's
right back to the lostar raptor. So I mean for
two seconds. But I don't think they like are sitting
later and processing and going hmm they said not to
do that.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Yeah, so no different than our children then, because my kids,
every time he lectures them, I'm like, they have checked out. Yeah,
they have no idea what you're saying anymore. They're just
looking at you and noticing that you're like your cheeks
are red, and like noticing that like your shirt has
a stain on it. Like my kids already went into
like another dimension. And I mean, I can't blame them
(15:29):
because the lecturing doesn't work for me either.
Speaker 5 (15:31):
Okay, you talks about names, you know how people do that?
Speaker 2 (15:35):
And this was not part of the article, but this
is something that I feel like I see happen a lot.
Was Well, people will call their dog's names when they
are doing something wrong. Does that confuse the dog, because
like it would confuse me.
Speaker 5 (15:48):
Yeah, yeah, that's like that's usually why people end up
seeking training, because they spend a lot of time teaching
their puppy like this is your name, and they're all
like super excited. But then the dog hits like teenage
years and becomes an adolescent and is now like a
teenage terror and every time they say their dog's name,
it's like you know, mean and gruff and stern, and
(16:11):
they aren't actually like saying what they mean, they're just
calling the dog's name. And so now the dog's like, okay,
if you say my name, I must be in like
trouble and they like run away. And then people are like,
you know, oh, so they don't follow my commands and
they don't like they don't do this stuff, and then
like they come to the training and they're just sitting
(16:32):
there like saying the dog's name.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Like rap Ra. Yeah, that's like And that's why that's
why communication is so important. Like if you're if you
want them to drop something on a walk, you don't
say their name, you say leave it or drop it
or whatever you've viewed them to do. But if you're
just screaming sad bro as you're putting your hands in
their mouth, I don't feel like it's super effective. But
(16:56):
I see it happen all the time. And one that
I also see happen, and this is our last one
for the game, is punishment. Do dogs get confused when
they get punished?
Speaker 5 (17:08):
Well, yes and no. So punishment is part of learning
theory right punishment is to suppress behavior to stop the
behavior from happening. The tricky part is that punishment it
doesn't matter if you intended to be punishment or not.
It depends on how the dog takes it, and it
also depends on what they were doing immediately before or
(17:29):
during the time that the punishment was administered. So if
you're mad at your dog for getting into the trash
while you are gone to the store, and then you
call your dog over and then you start, let's just
for you know, for fun's sake, let's lecture them where
we're saying their name and we're talking really sternly at them,
and we're intending to suppress the behavior. If the dog
(17:51):
is really sensitive, and now that I feel like, well,
you came home and now you're yelling at me, you know,
and they and they start to feel that then you
didn't really punish what you intended. You punished what immediately happened,
which was coming to greet you. So it's like, so
punishment does work. That's part of learning theory, Like it
(18:12):
works for us too. If you put your hands in
the hot stove, you quickly learn not to do that
anymore because you've got immediate punishment of putting your hand
on the hot stove. You know, hopefully it's not not
a trip to the hospital kind of punishment, but you
know it's still I mean, even if it was like,
you know, just still slightly warm, it's still gonna startle you.
(18:33):
So punishment like it works, but you know it's it's not.
It's really tricky because if you're not giving punishment that
the dog takes as punishment at the time, that the
behavior is happening or the thing is happening, then they're
not gonna tie this punishment you're giving to them now
to the h being on the floor, and they're gonna
(18:56):
be scared because.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Exactly, yeah, And it like a bond with them, which
is something that you are really big on. And it
reminds me of parenting too, when it's like I try
to find the natural consequence of things like being burned,
because the punishment just kind of it. Either if it's
taking away screens, then now it's a punishment for me too.
And if it's like I'm not gonna punish with food
(19:21):
because I don't want them to have a bad relationship
with food. So punishment gets really really tricky with humans,
so you can only imagine how tricky it is when
you're dealing with another species that doesn't speak the same
language or communicate in the same way. So thank you
for that. That was super insightful. I loved it, and
I did a lot of research, as I do in
preparation for my show, and I read on your website
(19:43):
that you got your start in dog training in something
you referred to as emotional recovery for dogs. Would you
mind kind of going into what that means to you
and why you were attracted to that part of dog training.
Speaker 5 (19:58):
Sure, so the day that I started my dog training
career was also the day that I adopted a highly
reactive six month old dog that had a massive amount
of trauma in their for their first six months. Like this,
(20:20):
this poor this poor kid, Like, oh my gosh, she
had so much. So of course, as a first starting out,
I had understood the basic you know, task training and skills.
That's what I had gone to a program through the
company that I worked with, and so I was teaching
you know, basic manners classes and beginner classes, puppy classes
(20:40):
and things like that up to the CGC, and I
did some of that task training with our dog, Raisin.
But I immediately started to notice that like, she was
smart as a whip, she was a working line dog,
she was a duck lab American lab on the hunting lab,
and she was amazing. She was incredibly smart, great problems solved,
figured out all the puzzles. But this task training was
(21:02):
like just like, couldn't couldn't land on her. So I
immediately started looking into there's got to be something beyond
just skill and task and so I immediately started reading all
the books I could about how dogs think, how dogs learn,
how dogs feel. So the first one that I read,
(21:24):
it was about a week into my career, and it
changed everything was How Dogs Love Us by Gregory Burns.
He was not a dog trainer, he was, you know,
not even in the pet industry, and he was just
really curious about how to get his dog into MRI
machine without putting the dog to sleep. And so he
(21:47):
he did that and and I would. And that particular
book is great because it's not super science y, you know,
so I wasn't really well versed in science. You know,
I read it.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Now he does the whole whole like how long it
took to train them to lay down all that stuff? Right?
And what the what they found in the MRIs Is
that right? I remember it, curly, Yes, I remember reading
that book. It's fascinating.
Speaker 5 (22:11):
I mean, it was life changing for me. And that
was and that was it. And once I started like
kind of thinking about that and going down that path,
and then you know, finding other trainers who cared about
the emotional experience of dogs, and we're talking about going
beyond the operat and we're talking about like these emotions,
and we started reading about Now I understand science a
(22:31):
lot more that could handle a sciencey read. But you know,
seven years ago I was like, oh, I don't know.
So I really liked how conversational it was. And that
was what really helped us find relief of being able
to help her regulate her emotions and resolve her emotions
(22:53):
that so that she could be in a thinking learning brain.
And then the task and skill training was was a brief.
She actually became my demo dog at my previous facility.
So she went to work with me, and she was reactive,
but she wasn't traditionally reactive, so like she could be anywhere.
She didn't care about other dogs, she didn't care about
(23:13):
you know, all of her turmoil really was just in
her own head. The poor girl, isn't it all?
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Like I say, take that on too. All my crothes
inside too.
Speaker 5 (23:22):
Usually.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yeah, so she you that is super cool that she
was able to get to a point where she was
comfortable in a like a really dynamic environment, which is
like a training like center or dog training facility is
really ever changing.
Speaker 5 (23:39):
She really needed a job, so of course, like once
she realized that she had to learn this stuff in
order to be able to do this job. I mean,
she she really took to it, she really loved it.
And then you know, I mean I gave her the
freedom as you would any coworker. You know, I didn't say, Okay,
you ready to go to work, and she'd run upstairs
and dive into the bed and under the covers, and
I'm like, okay, I guess you're not going to work today.
(24:00):
I say personal days. Yeah. So she, uh, she worked
really hard and unfortunately, like she was kind of my
my experimental dog, and she died really young. She got
really sick all of a sudden, and we think that
that is probably due to the amount of stress that
she was in. So that just kind of doubled my efforts.
I had already at that point started Gen's dogs, and
(24:23):
so I was able. That's why was because I needed
to be able to get out of underneath somebody else's
curriculum and somebody else's thumb so that I could develop
my own curriculum and my own where I could actually
get to where people who needed me and be able
to help them.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
What I do.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
How does working with a reactive dog today impact the
methods that you use.
Speaker 5 (24:48):
I'm force free and i'm positive reinforcement. But really we
start with that first, a vet check. You know, we
have a long conversation, we break it down, we talk
about all the behavior that's happening, and then we start
with a vet check. What's going on is a sudden
you know, do you have a clear idea of when
(25:08):
this started? And if you don't and it just seemed
to come out of the blue, let's get a vet check.
Make sure there's no pain. Because I don't know about
anyone else, but if I'm in pain, I don't have
any spoons to be nice to anybody. So, you know,
we'll get a vet check, and then then we'll start
with just the management. You know, a lot of times
when people come to me, they've like done so much,
(25:30):
and they're doing so much, but it's not necessarily effective.
So we fine tune and tweak their management so we
can prevent any of the reactive behavior, dangerous behavior, or
fear that the dog is experiencing. And we just tweak
it so that they just start to feel a little
bit more comfortable and they're not triggered. We reduce their
triggers so that they're not getting these stress hormones released
(25:52):
in their brain repeatedly. And then of course, you know,
we just try to have fun, like find some things
that you guys like to do together. Let's looking at
our dogs as what they are, which is a different
species and all of these things that confuse them about us.
Let's start. Let's start helping them to have species typical
outlets for their behavior. And let's make sure that the
(26:14):
reason why they are acting out is not from unmet needs,
and I would be their needs. And then sometimes I'll
do a little bit of task training just to give
the guardians like a really quick, like immediate action to
be able to interrupt or redirect or to give immediate relief,
so if they just start to feel like they have
something that they can do. And then we start working
(26:37):
on their emotional regulation piece, and that part gets pretty tricky.
You know, it's therapy.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
It's tricky for humans. So I can only imagine like
I'm raising two small children and there is zero emotional regulation,
and so they understand and I can reason with them
right like this is I know it's been a long day,
but you know we need to go see your great
grandmother or whatever. I can't reason with a dog like that,
So it's got to be a challenge. And do you
(27:04):
find that the pet parents, the guardians of reactive dogs
that work with you take a while to kind of
understand where their dogs are based on maybe like preconceived
notions of what dogs are and how they operate.
Speaker 5 (27:18):
Sometimes it comes in waves. It comes in waves. So
sometimes there's the initial contact and then you know, we
have the this is what we what we do, and
then like maybe because they're just like a little bit
more mindful of it, so they're like really paying attention
to what's going on with their dog, and so then
they like they might have a little bit of a
relief from the reactivity or the fear base or whatever.
Then they're like, oh, they'll like kind of put off
(27:40):
like starting their program or whatever, and then like the
behaviors of the triggers sack up again. And then they
finally like they're like they take the plunge and then
they're like they're like, Okay, this all makes sense. This
all makes sense. This all makes sense. And then and
then like something will happen that's just kind of like
out in left field. They don't see the connectivity of it,
and so then they're like, this is not related, and
(28:01):
I'm like, it is, but it's like a constant thing
like something else, you know, for me when I learned,
when I went through the process of learning, and when
I read the books like about even like neurobiology and
all of this other stuff and how dogs think and
ethology and all of this stuff that we all of
(28:21):
these extress factor and jogs was the one that I
just read. It's like all these little light bulbs just
this kind of go off, and I'm like, oh, that
makes sense now, you know, like just kind of fills
in like the different puzzle pieces. And that's kind of
what I really help the guardians with because my programs
are not like I come in and just tell you
what to do, right, to talk about this is where
we are and that's where we want to be. Here's
(28:43):
some suggestions like how do you how can you get there?
And I just help them to kind of adjust the
way that they look at their dogs. And it comes
in ways. Sometimes they're like I'm ready to throw out
everything I know and you just mould me from fresh clay.
And sometimes they're like really really like already been fired,
like you know, through the kiln and it's like, now
(29:04):
I gotta like find a way to like kind of
chip off this part and then glew it back together.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Yeah. Well, I think that if you haven't, if a
guardian hasn't had a reactive dog, they have no idea
what a reactive dog, the impact that a reactive dog
can have on the life, the harmony of the home.
I had a reactive dog and it was constant stress,
and I waited too long to muzzle train her. I've
talked about this before, and I worked with a lot
(29:31):
of trainers and one of the things that we did
wrong first was use aversives for her. She was six
months old and I didn't know any better at the time.
This was a very long time ago, and you know,
I can look back and see all the things I
did wrong and all the things I could have done better.
But now, if I were to encounter another reactive dog,
first of all, I'd try to avoid it because it
(29:52):
is a lot. But second, let's say I just happened
to end up with a reactive dog, I would know
be bet ter what to expect because I really went
from like passive, assertive fun dogs dogs that ram the
Gamut never had a reactive dog really to the point
where they were not able to really comfortably be in public.
(30:15):
And then I got socks and it was like whoa.
And I think that happens to a lot of people
with their first reactive dog. And I think it's probably
hard for you to convince the people who have had
twenty dogs that this is not that unusual. You just
have been lucky thus far, yep, and now you need
a different approach. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (30:34):
The big thing that I kind of point out is
that the environment that people are living in now is
completely different. The genetics of their dogs is slightly different,
the learning of their current dog is different, you know,
and the self like the personality, so like, there's a
lot that goes into that. I just I don't usually,
you know, focus too much on like, you know, everything
(30:57):
that we've been And there's also like new science, right there's, right,
the biggest challenges that people have had this long history
of the past fifty years or so of being told
this is the way a dog is. They don't have emotions,
they don't have you know, they just they're just subservient.
You have to be you know, all of these you know,
(31:18):
myths or studies that have been that never really happened,
these like ideas, and then you know the that have
been debumped, you know, like dominance, Siri and Alpha. There's
just a lot of people that when they have a
reactive dog, they think they just have to be firmer
and more and more and more, and like like you said,
like I did, the same thing went with Raisin. You know,
(31:39):
when I was a baby trainer, you know, she came
with a shot collar for barking, and I didn't know,
you know, I didn't I didn't know. You know, I
would never forget the day that that we stopped using
the bark collar. You know, it was one that it
started with like a little vibration and then if like
within ten seconds there was another sound, it would go
(32:00):
to level one, and then in ten seconds it would
go to level two, and then in ten seconds if
there was still barking, it would just continue to increase.
And one day, like she had it on and she
gave a bark and it vibrated and it surprised her,
so she whined. So it did level one and then
(32:21):
she ran away and I was calling her and she
wasn't making noise.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
I was calling her.
Speaker 5 (32:27):
So it went to level two and then at that
point it was it was fairly old and so then
it like the sound of the vibration of the shock
set it off to a flour and then she yelped.
So it went to five and then before we even
within like thirty seconds, it seemed like it was already
up to like the fullest and she was like running
(32:49):
away from it. I couldn't get to her, and it
was just like and I just like finally got her
and she was just a puddle on the floor. Oh,
and I was like, oh god, what, yeah has happened?
And I felt so bad. And you know, we all
we all make mistakes. We only know what we know
(33:12):
until we grow and so yeah, we just you know,
that's what are you supposed to to do? So we
get that's what the general idea of dogs is is
that you have to be bigger, meaner, stronger than then
for all of this, right, Like you have to do
it and that's a hard one, that's what they People
(33:34):
feel that way. But they're doing this and they feel
the way that I do. They're like, this doesn't feel right. Yeah,
all the same, I was working with a dog trainer.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
Yeah, I was working with a dog trainer with a
shot collar and like an e fence, an electric fence,
And I was training with with one dog in the
front and my then partner was training with the other
dog in the back, and I could hear the dog
in the back yelping when every time he crossed the threshold,
and I was just like, shut it down, shut it down. Yeah,
I don't know anything, but I know that this is
(34:02):
not it. And so we luckily, like at some point
stopped it. But I think we had already done some
damage by, you know, putting a reactive dog in a
situation where she was super confused as to why she
was getting shocked and pup up, up, up buck, because again,
context is everything, and I couldn't explain the context to her.
So I mean, there are excellent dog trainers out there.
There are lots of methods out there. I know so
(34:25):
many everybody who's been on my show. I would endorse
as a dog trainer for anybody who was looking to
work with somebody. But I obviously a lot of pet
parents guardians don't know what to look for in a
dog trainer. So I'm going to point out all of
the acronyms that you have listed by your name. Yeah,
would you mind telling us what they are and why
they're important to you?
Speaker 5 (34:47):
Sure? So I'll start with while they're important to me,
And the big reason why they're important to me is
because the pet industry is completely unregulated. The actually not completely.
If you're doing pet food, there's a a lot of
regulations on that, but if you're actually working with the living,
breathing animal in front of you, there's no regulation. So
(35:08):
literally anyone can start a business and a lot of
people in the peat industry they don't even get a
register in LLC or get insurance. So the reason why
my certifications are important to me is because it shows
that I have taken the time to get learning and
(35:30):
to prove that I know and get testing that I
know what I'm doing, so that it gives the clients
a some protection. That's really what all of licensing is
all about, is it gives the consumer protection. So if
something that I do is outside of the ethics of
the organization, I can be reported and I can have
(35:53):
my certifications taken away. Of course I can still do business,
but that's why it's important to me. So I am
a cd CCA that's as certified Behavior Consultant K nine
Knowledge Assessed. I'm a cpdt KA, which is a Certified
Professional Dog Trainer Knowledge Assessed, and both of those are
(36:13):
through the Certification Council of Professional Dog Trainers, which is
an international organization, and that is strictly a testing organization.
All they do is they just test your knowledge, so
you don't have to you do agree to follow what
they call LIMA, which is very at least intrusive mentally aversive,
(36:35):
and that is what we follow through those that betcheck
is first, and then management and meeting species typical needs
as positive reinforcement and so forth. Does not endorse positive punishment.
If it's the like a roadmap, and before the positive
punishment methods there's a huge stop sign, so it means
(36:56):
that we're going to start from the lowest end and
we're going to work our way, and that's as far
as we're going to go. But if you are following those,
then you don't ever have to go any further. Really,
they're not guiding principles as far as the they're not
going to tell you what methods to use. All they're
doing is making sure that you understand learning theory, ethology,
(37:17):
and your neurobiology of dogs and behavior of dogs, emotions
of dogs, all of that stuff. So for professional dog
training and for behavior consulting. The last one is a
certified FDM. That's Family Dog Mediator and that's a program
that is offered through Kim Brophy, is designed by her.
(37:38):
She's an mythologist. She does how you can also become
a licensed FDM. I haven't taken that step yet, but
really that means that that is a teaching course, a
learning course that I took with testing throughout in order
to gain that certification and pass. And the big thing
about the FDM model is the legs model. So you're
(37:59):
looking at a dog on all four legs, and that's
the learning of the dog, the environment the dog lives in,
the genetics of the dog, and then the self like
who is the dog outside of those things? So it's
not a necessarily a training certification that one. That one
just says that I understand the mythology of your dog
(38:22):
a little bit better. Yeah, so I'm able to help you,
Like why why is your German Shepherd barking at everybody? Yeah?
You know? Why is your Golden.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Retriever always has something in its mouth? We're putting things
into context for us humans. Yes, I feel like that
is this is new to me. FDM is new to me,
which is one of the reasons I wanted to ask
you about that. I had not heard of that training program.
I love the four legs idea. I love the it
sounds more holistic than just the brain, because the brain
(38:52):
is one part. We can't control the brain. We can, however,
sometimes control the environment. So there's a lot at play,
and I that there are different aspects. I want to
invite you to play a second game with me, which
is a perfect segue, because this is called quip and Fetch.
And while you have been trained by excellent dog trainers,
(39:13):
and I'm sure you've mentored many yourself, there are some
quips that you are using, that you have used on
your social media that called my attention, and they're cute
and they're fun, and they're they're really I find them
to be really intentional and positive, so I can't include them.
And some of these are by you, and some of
(39:33):
these are by your team. So the first one I
got in this Quip and Fetch is from Sarah, one
of your dog trainers, that says, be patient with yourself
what does that mean to you as a dog trainer.
Speaker 5 (39:45):
So to be patient with yourself, you have to give
yourself grace and slow yourself down. As humans, we have
a tendency that as soon as we do something once,
or we teach something once, or we see a dog
do something once, we just say okay, you can do it,
and then we immediately raise the criteria and then we go, oh, wait, wait,
(40:09):
and we're confused why they don't know how to sit
for five minutes when we just taught about to sit
for one second. So be patient with yourself and keep it,
keep it slow so that you allow yourself the time
to build good, healthy habits. But also understand that you're
going to make mistakes. So when you make mistakes, like now,
(40:33):
am I done to sit for five minutes? Even though
I just taught them to sit for one second? Like,
understand that that's a common mistake that humans make. And
you know, have that grace and patience with yourself. Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
I mean no human I know has ever been told
to do something one time and got it immediately, Like
I have asked my husband to unload the dishwasher a
certain way every single day of our existence, and it's
still not being unloaded the way that I think is
the best way to do it. And we're both of
the same age, about the same education level and all that.
(41:06):
So when he tells me also about something that I
have no interest in, I'm not going to learn it
immediately because I don't like football, I don't care, I
don't know, I don't care. And so you can tell
me once, you can tell me ten times. If you
don't put in a context that I understand and care about,
I'm not gonna get it. So, yes, patients all around,
for sure, all right, Shay said, And training sessions on
(41:29):
a positive.
Speaker 5 (41:30):
Note, m h absolutely, Why is that important? Because if
it wasn't fun, you're not gonna do it again, and
if you weren't successful, you're not gonna do it again.
You know, Like that's just really important. And that's also
a good reminder to end while it's still fun and
that you are still successful. Yeah, training fatigue and practice
(41:52):
fatigue is a real thing. And so if you're pushing
your dog and you're not or you're pushing yourself and
you're not recognizing the signs that you're starting to get fatigued,
then it's gonna end, and you're gonna be like, well,
that was awful, and then what's going to happen the
next time you want to train?
Speaker 2 (42:10):
You're not gonna want to whoa, it's gonna be such
a drag. Yeah, really like celebrating and then calling it
quits for that one time. You said in one of
your quotes or quips, is set one goal at a time?
Speaker 5 (42:24):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. You can only really do as much
as you know the workforce, uh and and all of
us entrepreneurs want to think that we're really great at multitasking. Essentially,
we really only can do one thing at a time,
so you might as well put your all into this
one thing and then then move on and break it down.
(42:46):
You think as having your dog sit for five minutes
is one goal. That's not that's not really it's not.
That's like a thousand goals, all right, multi to one.
Your first goal should be to set for one second
and then maybe sit for five seconds and break it
down into one goal at a time.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
I love that. Yes, Rome was not built in a day, right,
so neither is your dog. Your dog's training is not
gonna happen like this. Safety first fun always tell us
about that.
Speaker 5 (43:16):
Oh. Yes, Well, many people who you know, what do
you call them adrenaline junkies and they want to go
in bungee jump and free and jump off of the
skydive and do all of that stuff. Yeah, I bet
they're doing it with a lot of safety protocols in place,
whether they want to admit it or not. So if
(43:37):
you're doing something that's dangerous where there's potential for harm,
then it's really not going to be that fun, no
matter how scared you want to be, because if you
hurt yourself, that's really not going to be fun. Yes,
so always always make sure that you're playing it safe
whether you are. And dogs, you know, they they have
(43:58):
emotions and they can get overwhelm and you know, safety
doesn't always mean like muzzle training a dog who might
bite or pick up things that they're not supposed to,
like eating rocks. It also could just be being safe
with your connection with your dog and ending on that
positive note so that you're not getting into a dangerous
(44:21):
territory and damaging your relationship or that you feel insecure.
If your dog is like we all of a sudden
not listening to you, that damages your relationship.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
Yeah, and I was immediately thought about like a safe environment, right,
like if they're learning something and there's just like a
trash truck booming down the street or you know, a
child crying like environment, Like if they don't feel safe
in that environment, that probably isn't the best place to train.
And I feel the same way with like my kids
(44:53):
or with myself, like if if you're if I'm gonna
learn something, it's not gonna be when I feel like
my life is that we're like I'm not gonna learn anything.
I'm gonna be completely shut down, survival mode. Save me please.
So I think it's really important to remind people that
safety is not just about how we feel safe with
interacting with our dogs, but how they feel in their
(45:13):
environment and with us. Like you said that bond that's
so important. Then you say happy dogs, happier homes. Tell
us about that philosophy seems simple enough.
Speaker 5 (45:24):
My dogs are not happy and they're mad and they're
yelling and everything. I mean, heightened emotions are contagious. You know,
it goes in the same vein of like if everybody
else in the house is happy, then they're gonna be
content and they're not gonna bother.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
It's true. Heightened emotions are contagious. I love that. That
is such a good you see, you're good at these
little quips, these little reminders. I like this. Train hard,
rest easy.
Speaker 5 (45:50):
Oh yeah, that one's a good one. That's all about balance,
you know, you know, training hard. Let's everybody thinks, oh,
we've gotta work our dogs. You know, we've got to
exercise our dog. Tired dogs a good dog. That doesn't
mean necessarily run them and turn them into athletes. But
if you train diligently and you really are careful with
(46:11):
your training, then your dog builds safety and security in
knowing exactly what the clear path to success is. So
they feel comfortable, confident and safe to be able to
take a nap and rest because they know what the
rules are. So being able to, you know, be diligent
about your training just allows for everyone to know where
(46:32):
the boundaries are.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
Yeah, consistency and safety kind of go hand in hand.
Or paw and pie if you will last one eager
minds wagging tails.
Speaker 5 (46:42):
Oh yeah, puppies especially, but dogs in general, you know,
they want to learn. You know, what is it that
people usually say the dog wants to please us? They
just they want to be successful. They know they live
in a human habitat, and they really are designed for
twenty years, twenty thousand years to like be our companions,
(47:04):
so they want to work with us. They just waiting
for you to tell them what to do. And especially
now in this environment, like it becomes fewer and fewer
and fewer people have working dogs or jobs for their
working dogs. But we have working.
Speaker 2 (47:19):
Dogs dogs I have.
Speaker 5 (47:21):
I have two working line dogs. I have a long
coat donation and an English lab you know, so thankfully,
like they have eured out their jobs. Well, Basil's still
the puppy, but you know, they just are waiting to
know what is our job? What are we supposed to do?
Tell us what to do? And they are little sponges,
so you know, there's so much that you can teach them,
(47:44):
and that again just leads to a clear path to
success and they're happy to work. That goes in with
that balance too. It's not just like let's run as
much as we can. Let's work our minds, you know, yes, yes,
work has like.
Speaker 2 (47:59):
This annotation in the human world where it's like physical
labor or like intense like you know, data entry or whatever.
The work is and for dogs it could be as
something as as minor is, like foraging right for like
their food, Like that could be work for them, something
as simple as that or or yes, like nose work
outside or agility training or barn hunt or a million
(48:22):
different things out there that most pet parents aren't even
aware of. But like at something at home is just
taking a walk and letting them sniff or whatever to
like get their mind going. And it's and it's interesting
because I too have two working dogs, and like, yeah,
they don't have a job other than to wait for
me for our walk every afternoon. Now this time of year,
it's in the afternoon. In the summer, it's in the morning,
(48:44):
and like that is they take that job so seriously
and they are not pleased with the day until that
work is done. It's like they punch in for the walk,
they punch out, and now everything's cool. But until that happens,
it is definitely on the agency and they will not
forget about it. So it's interesting how you said we
all have working dogs, but we're not working them, And
(49:06):
it really is something to consider when you're adopting a pet.
Are you able to give this dog the work that
it's bred for you know, millennia or however long to.
Speaker 5 (49:17):
Do whatever that word was or whatever that was, whatever
that time, all these thousand years.
Speaker 2 (49:22):
Yeah, all right, So you have team members at Gen's
Dogs and I just said, Jen, so drink up people
if you're playing the game. So tell us how do
you choose dog trainers to join your team? Do they
come with experience? Do you train them? How does that work?
Speaker 5 (49:41):
So it's really it's actually very very difficult. It's a
lot more difficult than I thought. And I'm very very
lucky to have Sarah and Shay as my junior trainer
is right now. And both of them I found a clients.
They came to me, Well, Sarah. She actually I've known
(50:03):
Sarah for several years. She owns her own business. She
runs a shop that specializes in enrichment toys and she
makes she makes them and she carries them and she
and that's how I knew her because she makes the
best snuffle mats.
Speaker 2 (50:19):
Cool, you got to give me her info, give me
her info before we log off.
Speaker 5 (50:23):
Yeah, She's like, she'll be really mad if she gets
one hundred orders because she can't make him buck back.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
But I'll give you.
Speaker 5 (50:31):
Her invo so she but she has other product lines,
and so that's how I knew her. And then she
got a puppy and she came in and I was
just watching how she worked with her puppy, and so
then I was just kind of like, I don't know,
I just got a gut feeling and I was like,
you never thought about being a dog trainer? And she
was like, I've always wanted to do that. So I
(50:53):
just brought her on in and and and taught her.
You know, she teached they teach Basic Manners line level
zero through four. But then Shaye was also a client.
She had her dog, and they have a lot of
dogs that we were living together, and they were all
(51:14):
starting to get just a little bit overwhelmed and weren't
really getting along. So she was in one of my
specialty services. And over that time of me being there
with her and seeing how much she worked with her dog,
because there were multiple family members that had multiple dogs
living all together. So wow, seeing how much she worked
with her dog and how much she loved it. And
(51:36):
then she has a horse, and she spent so much
time in four h and I just over time, I
just realized that this was something that she was maybe
trying to break into, and so out of all of us,
even though I have all these certifications and I've done
all this reading and this research, and I specialized in
big emotions. As far as trainers go, Shay is actually
(51:57):
our most qualified because she's trained rabbits and and horses
and so she's done multi species and so then she
she's come on and she's been fantastic, uh, because she
already understood horse training, So it was really easy to
kind of make those correlations for her into dog training.
Speaker 2 (52:23):
Your facility does in like in person dog training, and
you offer group classes. If you don't follow Gens Dogs
on Instagram, go ahead and follow them there's you have
great pictures of the actual classes going on. Do you
ever work with anybody outside of your immediate area?
Speaker 5 (52:40):
Yes, So all of the group classes and our basic
manners private sessions are all held at the Gens Dogs
Training Studio here in Forrest Grove, and those are all
taught by Sarah and Shay. They they offer all of
those classes. I specialize in the big emotions, the fear, aggression, reactivity,
dangerous behavior, and so for me, I work predominantly in
(53:04):
home and I do a lot of virtual as well,
so even if for people who are not in my
area or the biggest issue is dogs that won't let
people come in the house, that we really have no
choice but to do virtual, So I offer virtual and
then we also have our group class is now being
(53:27):
offered as virtual as well. Super cool.
Speaker 2 (53:31):
How effective is virtual training in these situations, whether it's
group or individual, it's actually just as effective as in person,
you know, because we are essentially you know, together, live
in these virtual situations and I'm able to see everything.
Speaker 5 (53:47):
Especially now there's not usually any delay, so it's not
like it used to be where you're like, Okay, they
did something, and then I have to wait, you know,
the fifteen second drag to see what's happening before I
give feedback. Like it's pretty east is that this? Yeah,
technology is making it easier. Yeah, it really hasn't. And
you know, they all of the platforms now they drown
(54:08):
out background noise, so I don't have to worry about,
you know, if my dogs are doing anything, or anybody's
like anything, any noises around are happening. And as long
as the biggest thing is that I'm just not there
to show people with their dog. But I have tons
of video that I show of examples. Uh, so I
(54:30):
already have all that like queued up and ready, so
they're able to watch that. I'm able to walk them
through it. We let them do the thing and then
we talk about it, and then we do the thing
and then we talk about it. So as long as
as people are able to have a setup where they
can set their camera where I can see the dog
and them, then we're we're able to do that. Sometimes
(54:52):
I will utilize if we have like a helper, you know,
if I'm not there, if they're outside my area, or
they don't really really it doesn't matter if I can
come in the house. They really just want to make
sure like their friend or their sitter or a family
member can come in the house. Then I'll like text
the fit the helper, oh nice on the zoom with
(55:13):
so I'm able to orchestrate everybody all at once. So yeah,
so it's actually just as effective as being live. That's
perfect everybody time. A lot of people really feel a
lot better. Sometimes when I show up with people's houses,
you can tell they've like felt really stressed and they've
like because I'm coming into their personal space. So they
cleaned their house like immediately before me getting there. And
(55:36):
now they're all like, oh no, she's gonna see what.
I have dog hair on the floor, And I'm like,
so do what. We don't care, We don't care. Yeah,
I remember that as a pet sitter.
Speaker 2 (55:47):
Like the initial meet and greet was always like you
could see they were flustered trying to get everything ready.
And then after the relationship was established, like I could
see how they actually live and I was like, just live,
just live. The whole point is because convenience of us
coming to you where you are, figuring it out where
you're at.
Speaker 5 (56:04):
So yeah, so.
Speaker 2 (56:05):
Tell me how can my audience learn more about you,
your team and Gen's Dogs.
Speaker 5 (56:10):
So, as you've mentioned several times, thank you. Our Instagram
is a great way to see what we're doing, what
we have done, as well as any upcoming classes that
we have. Our website is Gensdogs dot com. That's j E.
N Nsdogs dot com. That lists all of the services
(56:33):
that we have. Pretty much everything that we if, we
do is all on our website and our Facebook mimics
our Instagram, so perfect.
Speaker 2 (56:44):
All right, Well, I just want to propose a toast
to you for being so awesome for educating us on
how important context is. Cheers. I also want to propose
a toast to my executive producer Mark Winter at Like
Radio and to all of you for joining us today.
Thank you for spending some time checking in on these
amazing guests that I bring you. I hope you enjoyed
as much as I do. Here's to a life covered
(57:05):
in pet hair, because there's no better way to live.
Speaker 1 (57:08):
Here.
Speaker 2 (57:09):
To learn more about Covered in pet Hair, please visit
Covered in Petair dot com or pet life Radio dot com.
Thank you so much for watching, for tuning in, and
I will see you next week. No, that's a lie.
Speaker 5 (57:21):
I will not see you next week because next week
I'm on a cruise with.
Speaker 2 (57:24):
The Texas Pet Sitters Association. We're having the tenth Annual
Texas Pet Sitters Conference on a cruise I am seeing,
I'm presenting a few sessions, and I will be cruising
to Cosamel next Thursday, so I'll see you the following week.
Thank you again for watching. Thank you Jen so much
(57:46):
for joining me, and I hope you guys all have
a great rest of the week. Thanks again.
Speaker 4 (57:51):
Welcome. Let's talk pets every week on demand only on
petlife radio dot com
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