March 21, 2025 • 30 mins
Jenny C. Bell shares her personal journey and evolution of celebrating the Witch's Wheel of the Year, offering fresh perspectives on how to make these eight annual Sabbats more meaningful and connected to your actual lived experience.
• The Witch's Wheel comprises eight Sabbats: two equinoxes, two solstices, and four cross-quarter days
• History behind these celebrations is often murky and controversial within the witchcraft community
• Celebrating one-day rituals or focusing too much on historical accuracy can create disconnection
• Pay attention to the actual seasons where you live rather than following generic celebrations
• View each Sabbat as a "slice of the year" rather than a single day celebration
• Cross-quarter days serve as transition periods between major seasonal energies
• Gardening and herbalism offer practical ways to connect with seasonal changes
• Each season carries unique energy: Imbolc (spark), Spring (renewal), Beltane (beauty), Summer (joy), Lammas (harvest), Autumn (release), Samhain (honoring death), Winter (rest)
• Modern witches should evolve rather than just romanticize the past
Text me through my website or reach out on social media to continue this conversation about evolving your seasonal celebrations.
For more: https://www.jennycbell.com/
To order the Spirit Crystals book: https://bookshop.org/p/books/spirit-crystals-discover-your-crystal-guide-for-healing-and-empowerment/64b34cd1f68aa55f?ean=9780738779058&next=t&
Connect with me here: https://www.jennycbell.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome witches.
In today's chat.
I want to share my own journeythrough the Witch's Wheel.
The Witch's Wheel of the Yearare the eight Sabbaths, and
those are the two equinoxes, thetwo solstices and then what we
refer to as cross-quarter days.
So we have eight Sabbaths ingeneral and I wanted to share,
(00:25):
because I'm interested in thewitch's journey, my own journey,
I would say as a, as anevolution, maybe a
deconstruction of celebratingthe wheel of the year.
I'm Jenny Seabell and I'm yourhost and if you'd like to pour
yourself a cup of tea, I'mpersonally drinking a nice cup
(00:45):
of jasmine, which is my secondfavorite tea.
I really love Earl Grey, but Ialso really love jasmine and
that's why my favorite cartoonperson of all time is Uncle Iroh
from the Last Airbender,because I feel our love of tea
unites us and if he was a realperson he'd obviously be my best
(01:06):
friend.
But anyway, I digress so on tothe evolution of the Sabbaths in
my opinion.
So we just had a spring equinox.
I'm recording this the dayafter the spring equinox.
Some people refer to it asOstara.
Some people find that termoffensive because it's connected
(01:27):
.
Give it a research, give yourown research to it, but I did
read about its connection tosome anti-Semitic literature the
word so not necessarily thecelebration, but the word and it
was used in this publication.
That was terrible, terrible andinfluenced some terrible things
(01:54):
and some terrible people.
So it's interesting.
So, anyway, the there's a lotof controversy on some of these
cross-quarter days, such as theOstara controversy I just
brought up People just, you know, really trying to hold on to
traditions and some peoplesaying that they're fake
(02:16):
traditions.
I've seen people refer to Wiccaand Wiccan folklore as fake
lore and I try to respect everywitch on this show, so I'm not
going to call it that.
But there's just a lot of kindof murky history as to, you know
(02:38):
, how this wheel of the year,how these sabbats kind of came
to be, and so I wanted to talk alittle bit about that.
But I also want to talk aboutmy own personal kind of journey
and how I view them as a way tokind of maybe encourage you to
celebrate them a littledifferently or see them a little
differently.
So I want to start with that.
(02:59):
When I the book I had and Istill have that was my kind of
introduction to Sabbaths, wasSabbaths A Witch's Approach to
Living the Old Ways by I thinkit's Eden, but Aidan McCoy came
out in 2001.
So that was a long time ago andthat's pre like internet on the
(03:20):
phone, right For all youyoungsters.
We had the internet at thattime but we didn't have it in
our pocket, and I think theevolution of having it in our
pocket has allowed us to do moreresearch and learn more from
other cultures and other peoplearound the world and hear from
other voices.
That has really kind of changeda lot of what maybe we thought
(03:44):
was true pagan history or trueWiccan history.
And again, always do your ownresearch.
So I started off with thisapproach that these are real
ancient holidays and whether ornot you believe that is up to
you that these were real ancientholidays that people had been
(04:04):
celebrating in Europe and otherplaces throughout time and
history and we were just kind ofreclaiming them.
And I'm a huge Joseph Campbellfan.
I talked about that and I knowthat there are a lot of
similarities in timing and whenour ancestors around the world
would have celebrated certainthings like summer solstice
(04:26):
obviously was very important.
Winter solstice the equinoxes,cross-quarter days gets a little
murky as to exactly when andwho, and so originally I
believed that they were allthese ancient holidays and that
I was really stepping into thiskind of ancestral way.
(04:50):
I would celebrate them only onthe day.
So you know, if it was Ostara,spring, equinox that day, I
would celebrate it, maybe dosomething in the book, make a
recipe, do a spell, sing a song,whatever, and then move on and
not think about the next holidayuntil it came.
And that was just kind of how Idid that for years.
(05:14):
And then when I was closeted, Iwas still recognize the day and
like no, it was a special day,an important day, maybe make a
little something different, butnot really make a big deal and
not really feeling at allconnected to it.
So this method of trying toconnect with these old ideas or
(05:37):
ancient ideas wasn't working forme.
Celebrating it as one day offwasn't working for me.
Celebrating it, not celebratingit, wasn't working for me
either, because I wasn't reallytuning in.
And so what I've kind of cometo do and learn are I look at
the wheel of the year and I'mgoing to encourage you to do it
(05:58):
the same way in two differentways.
So the first thing that I wantyou to look at is I want you to
become more aware of where youlive.
So I for a long time lived inthe Mojave Desert and when I
would see like with you know now, with Instagram, other people's
celebration of you know, thewinter, solstice or even spring
(06:18):
or any of the cross-quarter days, I was like okay, it looks
pretty much the same out mywindow, no matter what the
season.
The Joshmint tree, I mean,sometimes it fruits, but it
doesn't change all that much.
Occasionally it would snowwhere I lived, but really I was
not.
It's not the Halloween town forseasons that we all kind of
(06:43):
romanticize at all and I thinkfor a lot of us we don't.
A lot of people don't live inthat kind of place.
It's, you know, it's like aonly a certain amount of Europe,
a certain amount of the UnitedStates that really gets those
four distinct seasons.
And that's actually part of whywe moved to the PNW was the
(07:04):
family.
Just, my husband especially waslike I really want four seasons
because he grew up in the desert.
It's like I really want to know, like I want to see that it's
fall and like feel fall and nothave this 80 degree weather.
So anyway.
So I want you to first thinkabout if you're going to
celebrate the wheel of the year,you're going to celebrate the
Sabbaths, I want you to reallypay attention to your own
(07:26):
weather because chances are mostlikely, maybe your spring
doesn't really happen on theequinox or, when everybody is
sharing online about all theseflowers blooming, you don't have
that, or maybe you're still indeep snow.
So I think, for me, what changed, what helped me get better on
this path or feel a deeperconnection to this wheel of the
(07:49):
year because I do now was reallypaying attention to my own
surroundings, my own weather,the earth outside of my home,
the earth beneath my feet.
Really attuning to the earth Ilive on was huge change and it
was eye-opening.
And it's very similar to peoplethat menstruate.
When they really kind of syncup their menstruation with the
(08:11):
moon cycle, you get a deeperunderstanding of the moon cycle
because you have like an innermoon cycle.
It's the same idea, right?
So, instead of getting hung upon the history of these sabbats
and whether or not it's true andwhether or not it's fake lore
or true folklore and this andthat, I just kind of let that go
(08:32):
and I started focusing on theactual changes I'm seeing and,
as I've become a gardener, thosechanges are more, more
perceptive to the changes.
I can see them better.
I think Mikey my cat, just myblack cat, obviously he just
wanted to chime in.
I think he agrees with me.
So you know, like right now it'sspring and it's cold and
(08:55):
raining it just snowed earlierthis week and I'm not seeing
bees.
I do have a few flowers opening, but they're bulb plants for
the most part, right Daffodilsand crocus.
A few other little blossoms arehappening here and there.
My elderberry tree, which isnative, just opened a few leaves
.
So spring is happening, butit's a slow start to spring here
(09:16):
, whereas your spring might bedifferent, right.
So that's the one thing I wantyou to reflect on, think about
as you kind of go through yourown wheel of the year and the
eight Sabbaths.
The other thing that I've cometo really enjoy, and I think is
different, is I like to thinkabout the wheel of the year.
(09:38):
I like to think of it as a pieor a pizza pie with eight slices
, and in those slices is thevibration, the energy of each of
the Sabbaths.
So right now we're in springequinox and we will stay in the
energy of spring equinox thebalance, the light, returning
(10:00):
the new energy, the birthing,the manifesting, the seed
planting, all of that that goeswith that.
We'll stay in that untilBeltane, and that way you're not
having this pressure in thismodern world to drop everything
and say, okay, march 20th, Ican't do.
I have to like, do this hugeritual and I want to.
(10:22):
I want to bake treats and Iwant to plant seeds and I want
to go outside and see bunnies.
And putting all this pressureon yourself as a modern witch,
right.
Instead you get the whole slice, sure, on yourself as a modern
witch, right.
Instead you get the whole sliceso you can break up all of your
celebrations, you can enjoy theentire season.
So I like to think of them asseasons and I like to think of
(10:43):
them as eight seasons.
So instead of having the fourseasons, we have the eight and
we're noticing the nuances rightof the change.
And with the cross-quarter days, I really like to look at them
as in between the other seasons,right.
So we're in spring right now.
Beltane marks the middle ofbetween spring and summer and so
with that I like to start to, Ilike to bring in, still honor
(11:08):
the spring, but start to bringin some of the summer energy,
right, or what are things thatyou associate with summer as a
witch or where you live or justin general in your life, and
then you start to marry thosesummer vibes, that summer energy
, that summer magic, with thespring and that becomes the
(11:28):
Beltane ritual, right?
So that's sort of how I havestarted to look at the wheel of
the year, because if you really,if you really do the research
and you really try to make thisin real and you try to be like
no, this is what witches of olddid, you're gonna find out
that's not really the case.
(11:49):
This is a more modern idea ofwitchcraft and there it's
interesting.
Really, I think the one that'smost interesting is Samhain,
right, because you have thisCeltic holiday, but it also
lines up with the Day of theDead, and it also lines up with
other days of dead or days ofhonoring the dead throughout
(12:12):
other cultures.
So it's not just in Mexico,there are some other cultures
that honor their dead at thesame time, and then the Catholic
Church obviously likes to kindof tie in stuff.
They have all souls and allsaints and all that.
So you have this time framearound Samhain.
That's all about honoring thedead.
So it's not just witches.
There are other people honoringthe dead, and so that's all
(12:33):
about honoring the dead.
So it's not just witches, thereare other people honoring the
dead, and so that's one of thosedays where I'm like this they
got this one right, like thisone's important.
And all these cultures acrosstime and and across continents
and places are celebrating thedead at the same time, like,
like there's something,energetically speaking, where we
(12:55):
feel this is the right thing todo at this time as a human
culture, as a collective, andthat's the other thing to
consider, right.
So you're considering your ownland, where you live.
So you're noticing your owncycle of earth.
Right, you're thinking aboutthe cross quarter days as in
(13:15):
between the other major seasons,right.
And then the other thing tothink about is the collective
energy, and so I like to thinkof that more than the history,
because the history is murky.
So if, collectively, a lot ofpeople on October 31st, november
1st, 2nd, are feeling spookyseason, right, it's Halloween.
(13:36):
They're feeling like facingfears, they're feeling like
honoring the dead, they'refeeling this change in the air.
Halloween night always feelsmagical to me, and it has since
I was a child.
That's why it was my favoriteholiday.
It's there's something.
There's something there if,collectively, we're all feeling
(13:58):
it, and that's another thing toconsider, right.
So really like, what I'm sayingis I kind of threw out the
books and the literature and thestudying of the wheel of the
year and the Sabbaths, and Ithrew that out and I thought to
myself what's going oncollectively?
What are people feeling modernday?
(14:19):
What's going on in the eartharound me and how can I
celebrate this or honor this fora chunk of the year, like a pie
slice of the year, instead ofjust a single day.
And now I feel like I reallytune in.
I really love working with theSabbaths.
I really look forward to thechanging of the seasons.
(14:41):
I have a wheel, a plaque on mywall that I change and I really
feel when the seasons change nowand I feel that energy and I
feel that shift and I feel muchmore attuned to the earth and
all of those and collectively toother people.
Today in our coven someoneposted saying that they really,
since joining our coven, arestarting to really tune into the
(15:04):
earth and the changes.
Like a lot of times, I think,with witchcraft, why I think
witchcraft is so good for peoplein general is it invites a
sense of presence to inconnection to the earth right
and other spiritual they arespiritual paths and religions do
that too.
They invite a presence, butthey don't all invite a
(15:24):
connection to the earth right.
And that's what's reallyspecial to me is I'm at these
holidays, I'm being asked, I'mbeing invited, I'm being asked
to stop for a second and look atthe earth and notice how she's
changing, and to me that'sbeautiful, right going and just
(15:45):
seeing the subtleties of okay.
So yeah, it's pretty cold, butthere are some things blooming
like spring is really mothernature is showing me a little
ankle, like she's.
She's showing me like spring'scoming, honey, right, and that's
really exciting.
And then I kind of get thatexciting feeling.
And so it's the same with allthe holidays, with Imbolc, I get
(16:12):
really deep into wanting tolight candles, right.
I really.
I feel at Imbolc, I feel I'mgoing backwards.
By the way, the one, the holidaybefore this one, I feel, on
that February 1st, 2nd, likewhen will winter be over?
It's so dark, it's so cold,it's so wet.
I need the sun.
I'm lacking vitamin D,everyone's sick.
There's so much heaviness atthat time that when Imbol comes,
(16:34):
I need it.
I need to light the candles, Ineed to reignite my own inner
spark.
I work with Bridget personally.
I need all of that.
I need her to come in and belike, okay, let's get that fire
going again, because I'm reallyfeeling wilted and stuck in the
dark, reverie, in the hermitkind of mode of winter, and I
(16:56):
need that spark and so right, sowe have that.
So we have kind of these, theseenergies, and the other thing I
just want to take you throughthem right, so we have in bulk,
in my opinion, was what I justtold you.
It's about reigniting the spark.
In the dead of winter we havespring.
Equinox for me is fresh energy,it's new energy, it's hope To
(17:19):
me.
I celebrate the new year at thistime.
Now, I know that doesn't gowith the normal witch's wheel of
the year.
A lot of witches celebrate itSamhain, yuletide, in between
there around there.
I just don't agree with thatbecause it's dark and sad.
I just don't.
My spring lines up better withthe astrological new year which
(17:39):
is now and my new year lines upbetter, right, I feel
invigorated by Aries season andI feel invigorated by spring, so
I like to celebrate this timeas the new year.
That's my way, beltane.
I like to really get deep intoflowers, like, give me all the
flowers.
I'm a Taurus, I'm Ferdinand thebull.
I want to smell all the flowers.
I want to collect flowers.
(17:59):
I want to make flower crowns.
I want them on my altar, I wantthem everywhere and of course,
I leave a ton for thepollinators.
I want to plant them.
I want to go to the flower farmdown the street, like I really
just want to celebrate thebeautiful sensuality of flowers
and color and feeling beautiful.
I want to really have infusedbeauty into my life, into my
(18:20):
home.
So it's all about beauty for me.
And then summer is all about fun.
I mean, I went to school.
I had summers off.
I was a teacher for a long time.
I had summers off.
Summers always marked fun forme.
My kids are home, we're doingmore things.
It's more joyful.
I always feel joy and I think,always think of summer tied with
(18:41):
the original Pamela ColemanSmith drawing of the sun card in
the tarot where it's the littlebaby, like with the sun and the
riding the horse, and it's justlike such a joyful.
It one of my joyful pictures.
It's like new birth andhappiness and light.
It's like all the good thingsright venture with the horse,
and that's how I think of summer.
I think of summer as joy,adventure.
(19:02):
I like to get a lot done.
I feel a lot more energy.
All of it really tune into thatright.
And then between summer and fallwe have another cross-quarter
day and there's again somecontroversy.
But around August 1, we haveLammas Lunasa and I personally
(19:24):
use that as a first harvest time.
So I will make cornbread.
We often will have like aharvest meal of whatever I'm
growing or we're foraging.
This year we joined an awesomeI'm really excited a farmer's
CSA, so we'll be getting basketsof seasonal food.
If you have one, join one.
We did it when we lived inCalifornia.
(19:45):
I found one here.
I'm so excited to get our firstbasket in May.
And it feels good to support afarm.
It feels good to be able to eatlocal and seasonal, because
there's so much, so much morenutrients when it's local,
because these plants aresurviving your area right, so
they're surviving the smokeseason that we go through in the
PNW.
(20:05):
Anyway, side side, sidetrackedBack to the holidays.
So with that holiday I makecornbread and we feed the land
we each pick.
There's four of us in thefamily.
We pick a place, a north, south, east, west.
One of us picks one of thosedirections.
That was the word I was lookingfor.
We pick a direction, we giveour thanks to the land spirits
(20:28):
and we offer the cornbread and Ialways will offer, whatever I
grow, some of it to the deer andto the jays and the other
pollinators, and never take allof what we grow either.
And the same with foraging.
Please don't take it all.
Ever take small amount leaves.
I'll leave a lot for everyoneelse.
And so we do that.
We really just celebrate theharvest and the bounty.
It also is getting ready forgoing back to school, and so
(20:52):
there's a lot you knowcollectively, culturally too,
that we can tie in.
And then we get to the autumn,equinox, which I think is like
when everybody feels witchy,from like autumn until Halloween
.
Everybody is a witch, everybodywants to be a witch.
I have my TikTok always getseverybody is a witch.
Like everybody wants to be awitch.
I have my TikTok always gets somany more views.
Like everybody is ready to be awitch.
(21:13):
And so with autumn is all aboutrelease, right, it's pretty
clear Even for where I live.
I look around and the trees arelosing their leaves.
Well, that means I need to losesomething.
Summer gets really robust.
It gets really busy.
You're able to do a lot becausethere's a lot of sunshine, a
lot of warmth, a lot of freedom,a lot of free time, a lot of
(21:34):
good food, and now, with fall, alot of that goes away.
And so you have to start tostrip back and pare down, you
have to say no, you have to setboundaries, you have to let some
things go, you have to preparefor winter, you have to.
You know're you're going to becanning and jarring, it's all
those things right.
And I work a lot with herbs,which has really helped me tune
in with the season.
Foraging and working with herbshas been a huge, and I'll talk
(21:56):
about that in a little bit.
And then we get to the um, weget to the in between which we
talked about, halloween, samhain, day of the Dead, and it's so
magical, so potent at that time,and that's the time to honor
the dead, but also to honor thethings that have died in your
(22:17):
life, right, the past, careers,the wins, the losses.
I like to just honor all thedeath.
And I also like to do shadowwork because in the end, right
that's, we're entering theshadow, entering the darkness,
and that'll help make winter alittle bit easier.
We get to winter and it's sofunny because it's like, okay,
we want to rest and receive andrelax, but if you live in a
(22:39):
culture that celebratesChristmas and New Year's, you're
not resting or relaxing at all.
It's very busy and so we wantto try to balance that.
So for winter, I like to thinkof it as cozy, resting,
receiving, setting myself up forhealth.
I like to do a lot of tincturesand a lot of preparations
(23:03):
elderberry syrup, things likethat in the fall, so that winter
is healthy.
I like to do a lot of warmingthings in winter warming spices,
warming soups, warming foods, alot of twinkling lights, a lot
of vitamin d, right things likethat, like preparing to go
inward, to hibernate, to getinto darkness, and then we go
(23:23):
back and then after that isinmbolc.
So that's kind of how a quickoverview of how I look at the
wheel of the year.
So I've kind of let go of a lotof the folklore, myth, history,
all of that.
The only one I really stick withis Imbolc.
I really feel belongs toBridget in my mind, my heart,
and that's works for me.
(23:43):
It may not work for you, so Idefinitely stick with that.
And then with works for me.
It may not work for you, so Idefinitely stick with that.
And then with Halloween,samhain, I like to honor the
dead, and that's partly becauseI lived in Southern California
for so long and all my friendswere Mexican and my best friend
is Mexican still and to methat's such a beautiful culture
and time of year to celebrateand honor our loved ones, and so
(24:06):
I always like to put uppictures or piece, you know, do
a whole like ancestor altar andpersonal.
That's what I like to do and itfeels good to me and it feels
right to me.
But it may not feel right toyou.
It may instead feel like I wantto, you know, treat it as in
between fall and winter.
So if we're looking at what's inbetween fall and winter, what's
(24:28):
that energy?
It's, you know, growingdarkness.
It's letting go even more, it'sgoing within even more, it's
shadow work, it's all of thosethings.
So, yeah, so I just I wanted tomake this episode a little bit
more about my journey, go alittle further than the previous
episode, but specifically aboutthe wheel of the year, because
every year I see just theseposts that are just not kind.
(24:52):
They're kind of aggressive andbaiting of other witches trying
to challenge you know, like, oh,you call it Ostara, well,
you're a racist and it's just solike intense.
It's like why?
Why do we have to?
Why do we have to fight withinthe community Like we're already
a niche group and there's a lotof people that don't like us
outside the community why wehave to fight within the
(25:14):
community?
Can't we talk like grown-upsand have grown-up conversations
and whatever?
So I've really tried to releasea lot of that instead really
trying to find my own way and domy own thing.
And so if you garden and If youwork with herbs, that's such a
gateway into really figuring outyour own path with this,
because, as a gardener, you'realready celebrating the wheel of
(25:37):
the year.
Like you know, I need to beplanting, I need to be planning,
I need to be harvesting.
All of that comes.
The wheel of the year is basedoff of the planting schedule.
So if you start to garden, thewheel of the year suddenly makes
like actual literal sense.
Right, it's no longer ethereal,it's no longer this kind of
(25:57):
abstract idea like hands in thedirt.
Oh, this makes sense.
Like right now I'm literallyplanting seeds and previous
holiday I was planning thegarden and I was pruning
previous to that.
It's like all the whole cycle.
So really getting into that.
And if you don't, you don't havea green thumb, you don't have
the space working with herbs,right.
You start to really look andtake some herbalism courses.
(26:19):
You'll see herbalists,traditional herbalists and
especially Chinese herbalismlike really tries to help the
body get through the differentseasons, right.
So for winter I'm not eatingcold foods.
We're starting to get intospring.
It's still cold outside, so I'mstill starting my day with like
a warm broth or warm tea oroatmeal.
(26:40):
I'm starting I need to help mybody warm up before I put foods
into it.
I'm taking like drinkingwarming teas, like clove, and
I'm putting cinnamon in.
A lot of the things I'm doing.
I'm using more spice, trying towarm the body and then when we
get to summer, I'll be eating alot of melon and watermelon and
trying to cool the body downright.
(27:01):
It's like tuning in with theseseasons, with the Sabbaths.
If you tune in with the eartharound you through gardening or
you tune in with your own body,your own body's needs.
What is your body telling you?
Your body's like I'm tired, I'msluggish, we're not getting
sunlight, we're not gettingvitamin D, I need to rest more
in the winter.
Your body.
Suddenly, in the summer, I wantto do all these things.
There's sun going.
(27:22):
The sun is so bright, it's sowarm, it's so.
It's so long, it's so brightfor so long.
Right, it's like all the waytill nine o'clock at night.
I want to be doing stuff, I wantto be active, and that's really
, I think, the gift of the wheelof the year is the getting to
know yourself, your own body,getting to know the earth,
(27:42):
getting to know the collective,getting to tune in with the
energy.
That's the gift and that's whatI think is should be the focus.
That's my opinion, right?
This is where I think we shouldfocus, not on the history, not
on the witch gods.
And what crystals and whatcolored candle do I need in my
altar?
No, no, no, no, no, none ofthat.
(28:03):
Right, like, let it go, let thebooks go and do it for yourself,
because I think, in the end,when we look back at witches of
the past, that's what they weredoing, right?
They were living connected tothe land, they were working with
the plants, they were lookingat the animals and when were the
animals being born?
And oh, this is the time forthis.
(28:24):
And it wasn't so much about allthis other showy stuff, it was
about really tuning in withtheir own body and the earth
around them.
So I hope this inspires you.
If it does, great.
If you're like this doesn'tmake any sense to me, let it go.
But thanks for listening andyeah, let's have a conversation.
(28:44):
If you're inspired by this andyou think it's really
interesting, there's a way youcan text the show on my website
and you can tell me what youthink, or you can reach out to
me on social media.
But let's just keep evolving.
I think that's the thing.
Is witchcraft.
It can't so many people want toget into witchcraft, to like go
back in time.
(29:04):
There's a romanticist like aromanticizing of the old, tiny
ways and like I want to.
I want to connect with theancestors.
I want to connect with theancestors.
I want to connect with theancient witches.
I want to do what the ancientpeople were doing, and the truth
is it's hard to do that becauseit's murky, because they were
erased right.
A lot of these people wereburned, their books were burned.
(29:26):
A lot of these people weredoing this stuff quietly and
silence silenced, right.
A lot of these people weren'tgoing to tell their neighbors
what witchcraft they were doing.
So a lot of it we don't have,and so it comes down to some of
the history we do have and a lotof it's conjecture right.
So instead, make it yours, makeit modern, make it make sense
(29:47):
for you, because in the end,you're the witch and it's your
path.
Welcome witches.
In today's chat.
I want to share my own journeythrough the Witch's Wheel.
The Witch's Wheel of the Yearare the eight Sabbaths, and
those are the two equinoxes, thetwo solstices and then what we
refer to as cross-quarter days.
So we have eight Sabbaths ingeneral and I wanted to share,
(00:25):
because I'm interested in thewitch's journey, my own journey,
I would say as a, as anevolution, maybe a
deconstruction of celebratingthe wheel of the year.
I'm Jenny Seabell and I'm yourhost and if you'd like to pour
yourself a cup of tea, I'mpersonally drinking a nice cup
(00:45):
of jasmine, which is my secondfavorite tea.
I really love Earl Grey, but Ialso really love jasmine and
that's why my favorite cartoonperson of all time is Uncle Iroh
from the Last Airbender,because I feel our love of tea
unites us and if he was a realperson he'd obviously be my best
(01:06):
friend.
But anyway, I digress so on tothe evolution of the Sabbaths in
my opinion.
So we just had a spring equinox.
I'm recording this the dayafter the spring equinox.
Some people refer to it asOstara.
Some people find that termoffensive because it's connected
(01:27):
.
Give it a research, give yourown research to it, but I did
read about its connection tosome anti-Semitic literature the
word so not necessarily thecelebration, but the word and it
was used in this publication.
That was terrible, terrible andinfluenced some terrible things
(01:54):
and some terrible people.
So it's interesting.
So, anyway, the there's a lotof controversy on some of these
cross-quarter days, such as theOstara controversy I just
brought up People just, you know, really trying to hold on to
traditions and some peoplesaying that they're fake
(02:16):
traditions.
I've seen people refer to Wiccaand Wiccan folklore as fake
lore and I try to respect everywitch on this show, so I'm not
going to call it that.
But there's just a lot of kindof murky history as to, you know
(02:38):
, how this wheel of the year,how these sabbats kind of came
to be, and so I wanted to talk alittle bit about that.
But I also want to talk aboutmy own personal kind of journey
and how I view them as a way tokind of maybe encourage you to
celebrate them a littledifferently or see them a little
differently.
So I want to start with that.
(02:59):
When I the book I had and Istill have that was my kind of
introduction to Sabbaths, wasSabbaths A Witch's Approach to
Living the Old Ways by I thinkit's Eden, but Aidan McCoy came
out in 2001.
So that was a long time ago andthat's pre like internet on the
(03:20):
phone, right For all youyoungsters.
We had the internet at thattime but we didn't have it in
our pocket, and I think theevolution of having it in our
pocket has allowed us to do moreresearch and learn more from
other cultures and other peoplearound the world and hear from
other voices.
That has really kind of changeda lot of what maybe we thought
(03:44):
was true pagan history or trueWiccan history.
And again, always do your ownresearch.
So I started off with thisapproach that these are real
ancient holidays and whether ornot you believe that is up to
you that these were real ancientholidays that people had been
(04:04):
celebrating in Europe and otherplaces throughout time and
history and we were just kind ofreclaiming them.
And I'm a huge Joseph Campbellfan.
I talked about that and I knowthat there are a lot of
similarities in timing and whenour ancestors around the world
would have celebrated certainthings like summer solstice
(04:26):
obviously was very important.
Winter solstice the equinoxes,cross-quarter days gets a little
murky as to exactly when andwho, and so originally I
believed that they were allthese ancient holidays and that
I was really stepping into thiskind of ancestral way.
(04:50):
I would celebrate them only onthe day.
So you know, if it was Ostara,spring, equinox that day, I
would celebrate it, maybe dosomething in the book, make a
recipe, do a spell, sing a song,whatever, and then move on and
not think about the next holidayuntil it came.
And that was just kind of how Idid that for years.
(05:14):
And then when I was closeted, Iwas still recognize the day and
like no, it was a special day,an important day, maybe make a
little something different, butnot really make a big deal and
not really feeling at allconnected to it.
So this method of trying toconnect with these old ideas or
(05:37):
ancient ideas wasn't working forme.
Celebrating it as one day offwasn't working for me.
Celebrating it, not celebratingit, wasn't working for me
either, because I wasn't reallytuning in.
And so what I've kind of cometo do and learn are I look at
the wheel of the year and I'mgoing to encourage you to do it
(05:58):
the same way in two differentways.
So the first thing that I wantyou to look at is I want you to
become more aware of where youlive.
So I for a long time lived inthe Mojave Desert and when I
would see like with you know now, with Instagram, other people's
celebration of you know, thewinter, solstice or even spring
(06:18):
or any of the cross-quarter days, I was like okay, it looks
pretty much the same out mywindow, no matter what the
season.
The Joshmint tree, I mean,sometimes it fruits, but it
doesn't change all that much.
Occasionally it would snowwhere I lived, but really I was
not.
It's not the Halloween town forseasons that we all kind of
(06:43):
romanticize at all and I thinkfor a lot of us we don't.
A lot of people don't live inthat kind of place.
It's, you know, it's like aonly a certain amount of Europe,
a certain amount of the UnitedStates that really gets those
four distinct seasons.
And that's actually part of whywe moved to the PNW was the
(07:04):
family.
Just, my husband especially waslike I really want four seasons
because he grew up in the desert.
It's like I really want to know, like I want to see that it's
fall and like feel fall and nothave this 80 degree weather.
So anyway.
So I want you to first thinkabout if you're going to
celebrate the wheel of the year,you're going to celebrate the
Sabbaths, I want you to reallypay attention to your own
(07:26):
weather because chances are mostlikely, maybe your spring
doesn't really happen on theequinox or, when everybody is
sharing online about all theseflowers blooming, you don't have
that, or maybe you're still indeep snow.
So I think, for me, what changed, what helped me get better on
this path or feel a deeperconnection to this wheel of the
(07:49):
year because I do now was reallypaying attention to my own
surroundings, my own weather,the earth outside of my home,
the earth beneath my feet.
Really attuning to the earth Ilive on was huge change and it
was eye-opening.
And it's very similar to peoplethat menstruate.
When they really kind of syncup their menstruation with the
(08:11):
moon cycle, you get a deeperunderstanding of the moon cycle
because you have like an innermoon cycle.
It's the same idea, right?
So, instead of getting hung upon the history of these sabbats
and whether or not it's true andwhether or not it's fake lore
or true folklore and this andthat, I just kind of let that go
(08:32):
and I started focusing on theactual changes I'm seeing and,
as I've become a gardener, thosechanges are more, more
perceptive to the changes.
I can see them better.
I think Mikey my cat, just myblack cat, obviously he just
wanted to chime in.
I think he agrees with me.
So you know, like right now it'sspring and it's cold and
(08:55):
raining it just snowed earlierthis week and I'm not seeing
bees.
I do have a few flowers opening, but they're bulb plants for
the most part, right Daffodilsand crocus.
A few other little blossoms arehappening here and there.
My elderberry tree, which isnative, just opened a few leaves
.
So spring is happening, butit's a slow start to spring here
(09:16):
, whereas your spring might bedifferent, right.
So that's the one thing I wantyou to reflect on, think about
as you kind of go through yourown wheel of the year and the
eight Sabbaths.
The other thing that I've cometo really enjoy, and I think is
different, is I like to thinkabout the wheel of the year.
(09:38):
I like to think of it as a pieor a pizza pie with eight slices
, and in those slices is thevibration, the energy of each of
the Sabbaths.
So right now we're in springequinox and we will stay in the
energy of spring equinox thebalance, the light, returning
(10:00):
the new energy, the birthing,the manifesting, the seed
planting, all of that that goeswith that.
We'll stay in that untilBeltane, and that way you're not
having this pressure in thismodern world to drop everything
and say, okay, march 20th, Ican't do.
I have to like, do this hugeritual and I want to.
(10:22):
I want to bake treats and Iwant to plant seeds and I want
to go outside and see bunnies.
And putting all this pressureon yourself as a modern witch,
right.
Instead you get the whole slice, sure, on yourself as a modern
witch, right.
Instead you get the whole sliceso you can break up all of your
celebrations, you can enjoy theentire season.
So I like to think of them asseasons and I like to think of
(10:43):
them as eight seasons.
So instead of having the fourseasons, we have the eight and
we're noticing the nuances rightof the change.
And with the cross-quarter days, I really like to look at them
as in between the other seasons,right.
So we're in spring right now.
Beltane marks the middle ofbetween spring and summer and so
with that I like to start to, Ilike to bring in, still honor
(11:08):
the spring, but start to bringin some of the summer energy,
right, or what are things thatyou associate with summer as a
witch or where you live or justin general in your life, and
then you start to marry thosesummer vibes, that summer energy
, that summer magic, with thespring and that becomes the
(11:28):
Beltane ritual, right?
So that's sort of how I havestarted to look at the wheel of
the year, because if you really,if you really do the research
and you really try to make thisin real and you try to be like
no, this is what witches of olddid, you're gonna find out
that's not really the case.
(11:49):
This is a more modern idea ofwitchcraft and there it's
interesting.
Really, I think the one that'smost interesting is Samhain,
right, because you have thisCeltic holiday, but it also
lines up with the Day of theDead, and it also lines up with
other days of dead or days ofhonoring the dead throughout
(12:12):
other cultures.
So it's not just in Mexico,there are some other cultures
that honor their dead at thesame time, and then the Catholic
Church obviously likes to kindof tie in stuff.
They have all souls and allsaints and all that.
So you have this time framearound Samhain.
That's all about honoring thedead.
So it's not just witches.
There are other people honoringthe dead, and so that's all
(12:33):
about honoring the dead.
So it's not just witches, thereare other people honoring the
dead, and so that's one of thosedays where I'm like this they
got this one right, like thisone's important.
And all these cultures acrosstime and and across continents
and places are celebrating thedead at the same time, like,
like there's something,energetically speaking, where we
(12:55):
feel this is the right thing todo at this time as a human
culture, as a collective, andthat's the other thing to
consider, right.
So you're considering your ownland, where you live.
So you're noticing your owncycle of earth.
Right, you're thinking aboutthe cross quarter days as in
(13:15):
between the other major seasons,right.
And then the other thing tothink about is the collective
energy, and so I like to thinkof that more than the history,
because the history is murky.
So if, collectively, a lot ofpeople on October 31st, november
1st, 2nd, are feeling spookyseason, right, it's Halloween.
(13:36):
They're feeling like facingfears, they're feeling like
honoring the dead, they'refeeling this change in the air.
Halloween night always feelsmagical to me, and it has since
I was a child.
That's why it was my favoriteholiday.
It's there's something.
There's something there if,collectively, we're all feeling
(13:58):
it, and that's another thing toconsider, right.
So really like, what I'm sayingis I kind of threw out the
books and the literature and thestudying of the wheel of the
year and the Sabbaths, and Ithrew that out and I thought to
myself what's going oncollectively?
What are people feeling modernday?
(14:19):
What's going on in the eartharound me and how can I
celebrate this or honor this fora chunk of the year, like a pie
slice of the year, instead ofjust a single day.
And now I feel like I reallytune in.
I really love working with theSabbaths.
I really look forward to thechanging of the seasons.
(14:41):
I have a wheel, a plaque on mywall that I change and I really
feel when the seasons change nowand I feel that energy and I
feel that shift and I feel muchmore attuned to the earth and
all of those and collectively toother people.
Today in our coven someoneposted saying that they really,
since joining our coven, arestarting to really tune into the
(15:04):
earth and the changes.
Like a lot of times, I think,with witchcraft, why I think
witchcraft is so good for peoplein general is it invites a
sense of presence to inconnection to the earth right
and other spiritual they arespiritual paths and religions do
that too.
They invite a presence, butthey don't all invite a
(15:24):
connection to the earth right.
And that's what's reallyspecial to me is I'm at these
holidays, I'm being asked, I'mbeing invited, I'm being asked
to stop for a second and look atthe earth and notice how she's
changing, and to me that'sbeautiful, right going and just
(15:45):
seeing the subtleties of okay.
So yeah, it's pretty cold, butthere are some things blooming
like spring is really mothernature is showing me a little
ankle, like she's.
She's showing me like spring'scoming, honey, right, and that's
really exciting.
And then I kind of get thatexciting feeling.
And so it's the same with allthe holidays, with Imbolc, I get
(16:12):
really deep into wanting tolight candles, right.
I really.
I feel at Imbolc, I feel I'mgoing backwards.
By the way, the one, the holidaybefore this one, I feel, on
that February 1st, 2nd, likewhen will winter be over?
It's so dark, it's so cold,it's so wet.
I need the sun.
I'm lacking vitamin D,everyone's sick.
There's so much heaviness atthat time that when Imbol comes,
(16:34):
I need it.
I need to light the candles, Ineed to reignite my own inner
spark.
I work with Bridget personally.
I need all of that.
I need her to come in and belike, okay, let's get that fire
going again, because I'm reallyfeeling wilted and stuck in the
dark, reverie, in the hermitkind of mode of winter, and I
(16:56):
need that spark and so right, sowe have that.
So we have kind of these, theseenergies, and the other thing I
just want to take you throughthem right, so we have in bulk,
in my opinion, was what I justtold you.
It's about reigniting the spark.
In the dead of winter we havespring.
Equinox for me is fresh energy,it's new energy, it's hope To
(17:19):
me.
I celebrate the new year at thistime.
Now, I know that doesn't gowith the normal witch's wheel of
the year.
A lot of witches celebrate itSamhain, yuletide, in between
there around there.
I just don't agree with thatbecause it's dark and sad.
I just don't.
My spring lines up better withthe astrological new year which
(17:39):
is now and my new year lines upbetter, right, I feel
invigorated by Aries season andI feel invigorated by spring, so
I like to celebrate this timeas the new year.
That's my way, beltane.
I like to really get deep intoflowers, like, give me all the
flowers.
I'm a Taurus, I'm Ferdinand thebull.
I want to smell all the flowers.
I want to collect flowers.
(17:59):
I want to make flower crowns.
I want them on my altar, I wantthem everywhere and of course,
I leave a ton for thepollinators.
I want to plant them.
I want to go to the flower farmdown the street, like I really
just want to celebrate thebeautiful sensuality of flowers
and color and feeling beautiful.
I want to really have infusedbeauty into my life, into my
(18:20):
home.
So it's all about beauty for me.
And then summer is all about fun.
I mean, I went to school.
I had summers off.
I was a teacher for a long time.
I had summers off.
Summers always marked fun forme.
My kids are home, we're doingmore things.
It's more joyful.
I always feel joy and I think,always think of summer tied with
(18:41):
the original Pamela ColemanSmith drawing of the sun card in
the tarot where it's the littlebaby, like with the sun and the
riding the horse, and it's justlike such a joyful.
It one of my joyful pictures.
It's like new birth andhappiness and light.
It's like all the good thingsright venture with the horse,
and that's how I think of summer.
I think of summer as joy,adventure.
(19:02):
I like to get a lot done.
I feel a lot more energy.
All of it really tune into thatright.
And then between summer and fallwe have another cross-quarter
day and there's again somecontroversy.
But around August 1, we haveLammas Lunasa and I personally
(19:24):
use that as a first harvest time.
So I will make cornbread.
We often will have like aharvest meal of whatever I'm
growing or we're foraging.
This year we joined an awesomeI'm really excited a farmer's
CSA, so we'll be getting basketsof seasonal food.
If you have one, join one.
We did it when we lived inCalifornia.
(19:45):
I found one here.
I'm so excited to get our firstbasket in May.
And it feels good to support afarm.
It feels good to be able to eatlocal and seasonal, because
there's so much, so much morenutrients when it's local,
because these plants aresurviving your area right, so
they're surviving the smokeseason that we go through in the
PNW.
(20:05):
Anyway, side side, sidetrackedBack to the holidays.
So with that holiday I makecornbread and we feed the land
we each pick.
There's four of us in thefamily.
We pick a place, a north, south, east, west.
One of us picks one of thosedirections.
That was the word I was lookingfor.
We pick a direction, we giveour thanks to the land spirits
(20:28):
and we offer the cornbread and Ialways will offer, whatever I
grow, some of it to the deer andto the jays and the other
pollinators, and never take allof what we grow either.
And the same with foraging.
Please don't take it all.
Ever take small amount leaves.
I'll leave a lot for everyoneelse.
And so we do that.
We really just celebrate theharvest and the bounty.
It also is getting ready forgoing back to school, and so
(20:52):
there's a lot you knowcollectively, culturally too,
that we can tie in.
And then we get to the autumn,equinox, which I think is like
when everybody feels witchy,from like autumn until Halloween
.
Everybody is a witch, everybodywants to be a witch.
I have my TikTok always getseverybody is a witch.
Like everybody wants to be awitch.
I have my TikTok always gets somany more views.
Like everybody is ready to be awitch.
(21:13):
And so with autumn is all aboutrelease, right, it's pretty
clear Even for where I live.
I look around and the trees arelosing their leaves.
Well, that means I need to losesomething.
Summer gets really robust.
It gets really busy.
You're able to do a lot becausethere's a lot of sunshine, a
lot of warmth, a lot of freedom,a lot of free time, a lot of
(21:34):
good food, and now, with fall, alot of that goes away.
And so you have to start tostrip back and pare down, you
have to say no, you have to setboundaries, you have to let some
things go, you have to preparefor winter, you have to.
You know're you're going to becanning and jarring, it's all
those things right.
And I work a lot with herbs,which has really helped me tune
in with the season.
Foraging and working with herbshas been a huge, and I'll talk
(21:56):
about that in a little bit.
And then we get to the um, weget to the in between which we
talked about, halloween, samhain, day of the Dead, and it's so
magical, so potent at that time,and that's the time to honor
the dead, but also to honor thethings that have died in your
(22:17):
life, right, the past, careers,the wins, the losses.
I like to just honor all thedeath.
And I also like to do shadowwork because in the end, right
that's, we're entering theshadow, entering the darkness,
and that'll help make winter alittle bit easier.
We get to winter and it's sofunny because it's like, okay,
we want to rest and receive andrelax, but if you live in a
(22:39):
culture that celebratesChristmas and New Year's, you're
not resting or relaxing at all.
It's very busy and so we wantto try to balance that.
So for winter, I like to thinkof it as cozy, resting,
receiving, setting myself up forhealth.
I like to do a lot of tincturesand a lot of preparations
(23:03):
elderberry syrup, things likethat in the fall, so that winter
is healthy.
I like to do a lot of warmingthings in winter warming spices,
warming soups, warming foods, alot of twinkling lights, a lot
of vitamin d, right things likethat, like preparing to go
inward, to hibernate, to getinto darkness, and then we go
(23:23):
back and then after that isinmbolc.
So that's kind of how a quickoverview of how I look at the
wheel of the year.
So I've kind of let go of a lotof the folklore, myth, history,
all of that.
The only one I really stick withis Imbolc.
I really feel belongs toBridget in my mind, my heart,
and that's works for me.
(23:43):
It may not work for you, so Idefinitely stick with that.
And then with works for me.
It may not work for you, so Idefinitely stick with that.
And then with Halloween,samhain, I like to honor the
dead, and that's partly becauseI lived in Southern California
for so long and all my friendswere Mexican and my best friend
is Mexican still and to methat's such a beautiful culture
and time of year to celebrateand honor our loved ones, and so
(24:06):
I always like to put uppictures or piece, you know, do
a whole like ancestor altar andpersonal.
That's what I like to do and itfeels good to me and it feels
right to me.
But it may not feel right toyou.
It may instead feel like I wantto, you know, treat it as in
between fall and winter.
So if we're looking at what's inbetween fall and winter, what's
(24:28):
that energy?
It's, you know, growingdarkness.
It's letting go even more, it'sgoing within even more, it's
shadow work, it's all of thosethings.
So, yeah, so I just I wanted tomake this episode a little bit
more about my journey, go alittle further than the previous
episode, but specifically aboutthe wheel of the year, because
every year I see just theseposts that are just not kind.
(24:52):
They're kind of aggressive andbaiting of other witches trying
to challenge you know, like, oh,you call it Ostara, well,
you're a racist and it's just solike intense.
It's like why?
Why do we have to?
Why do we have to fight withinthe community Like we're already
a niche group and there's a lotof people that don't like us
outside the community why wehave to fight within the
(25:14):
community?
Can't we talk like grown-upsand have grown-up conversations
and whatever?
So I've really tried to releasea lot of that instead really
trying to find my own way and domy own thing.
And so if you garden and If youwork with herbs, that's such a
gateway into really figuring outyour own path with this,
because, as a gardener, you'realready celebrating the wheel of
(25:37):
the year.
Like you know, I need to beplanting, I need to be planning,
I need to be harvesting.
All of that comes.
The wheel of the year is basedoff of the planting schedule.
So if you start to garden, thewheel of the year suddenly makes
like actual literal sense.
Right, it's no longer ethereal,it's no longer this kind of
(25:57):
abstract idea like hands in thedirt.
Oh, this makes sense.
Like right now I'm literallyplanting seeds and previous
holiday I was planning thegarden and I was pruning
previous to that.
It's like all the whole cycle.
So really getting into that.
And if you don't, you don't havea green thumb, you don't have
the space working with herbs,right.
You start to really look andtake some herbalism courses.
(26:19):
You'll see herbalists,traditional herbalists and
especially Chinese herbalismlike really tries to help the
body get through the differentseasons, right.
So for winter I'm not eatingcold foods.
We're starting to get intospring.
It's still cold outside, so I'mstill starting my day with like
a warm broth or warm tea oroatmeal.
(26:40):
I'm starting I need to help mybody warm up before I put foods
into it.
I'm taking like drinkingwarming teas, like clove, and
I'm putting cinnamon in.
A lot of the things I'm doing.
I'm using more spice, trying towarm the body and then when we
get to summer, I'll be eating alot of melon and watermelon and
trying to cool the body downright.
(27:01):
It's like tuning in with theseseasons, with the Sabbaths.
If you tune in with the eartharound you through gardening or
you tune in with your own body,your own body's needs.
What is your body telling you?
Your body's like I'm tired, I'msluggish, we're not getting
sunlight, we're not gettingvitamin D, I need to rest more
in the winter.
Your body.
Suddenly, in the summer, I wantto do all these things.
There's sun going.
(27:22):
The sun is so bright, it's sowarm, it's so.
It's so long, it's so brightfor so long.
Right, it's like all the waytill nine o'clock at night.
I want to be doing stuff, I wantto be active, and that's really
, I think, the gift of the wheelof the year is the getting to
know yourself, your own body,getting to know the earth,
(27:42):
getting to know the collective,getting to tune in with the
energy.
That's the gift and that's whatI think is should be the focus.
That's my opinion, right?
This is where I think we shouldfocus, not on the history, not
on the witch gods.
And what crystals and whatcolored candle do I need in my
altar?
No, no, no, no, no, none ofthat.
(28:03):
Right, like, let it go, let thebooks go and do it for yourself,
because I think, in the end,when we look back at witches of
the past, that's what they weredoing, right?
They were living connected tothe land, they were working with
the plants, they were lookingat the animals and when were the
animals being born?
And oh, this is the time forthis.
(28:24):
And it wasn't so much about allthis other showy stuff, it was
about really tuning in withtheir own body and the earth
around them.
So I hope this inspires you.
If it does, great.
If you're like this doesn'tmake any sense to me, let it go.
But thanks for listening andyeah, let's have a conversation.
(28:44):
If you're inspired by this andyou think it's really
interesting, there's a way youcan text the show on my website
and you can tell me what youthink, or you can reach out to
me on social media.
But let's just keep evolving.
I think that's the thing.
Is witchcraft.
It can't so many people want toget into witchcraft, to like go
back in time.
(29:04):
There's a romanticist like aromanticizing of the old, tiny
ways and like I want to.
I want to connect with theancestors.
I want to connect with theancestors.
I want to connect with theancient witches.
I want to do what the ancientpeople were doing, and the truth
is it's hard to do that becauseit's murky, because they were
erased right.
A lot of these people wereburned, their books were burned.
(29:26):
A lot of these people weredoing this stuff quietly and
silence silenced, right.
A lot of these people weren'tgoing to tell their neighbors
what witchcraft they were doing.
So a lot of it we don't have,and so it comes down to some of
the history we do have and a lotof it's conjecture right.
So instead, make it yours, makeit modern, make it make sense
(29:47):
for you, because in the end,you're the witch and it's your
path.
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