April 25, 2025 • 46 mins
Imagine being raised in a family of Christian healers, only to discover that your true spiritual path lies in embracing the very practices they warned against. This is the remarkable journey of Granddaughter Crow, a Navajo shaman, witch, author, and spiritual guide who joined me for one of our most illuminating conversations yet.
Born into the Navajo Nation but raised with strict Christian dogma, Granddaughter Crow was groomed from birth to become a spiritual leader—just not the kind she ultimately became. After being cast out at 17 for questioning religious teachings, she spent years denying her innate spiritual gifts until a life-altering injury forced her to confront her true calling. Her story powerfully illustrates how our greatest challenges often become doorways to our authentic path.
What makes this conversation particularly relevant for witches and spiritual seekers is Granddaughter Crow's approach to shadow work through animal guides. Her book "Shamanism and Your Shadow" focuses on four animals traditionally considered taboo—the raven, snake, owl, and wolf—and transforms them into powerful allies for inner healing. As she explains, these creatures, like our shadow aspects, have been misunderstood and feared, yet contain profound wisdom and power when approached with respect and openness.
The most transformative insight? Shadow work exponentially increases your magical ability. By integrating those hidden aspects of yourself—those gifts and traits you've buried due to shame or fear—you become whole, and wholeness is the source of true magical power. For anyone who has struggled with feeling disconnected from their spiritual gifts or who fears exploring their shadow, Granddaughter Crow offers gentle but powerful guidance, beginning with simply acknowledging that the natural world sees you as much as you see it.
Whether you're new to shadow work or looking to deepen your practice, this conversation offers practical wisdom, emotional resonance, and a profound reminder that our power lies in embracing all aspects of ourselves—especially those deemed taboo.
For more from Granddaughter Crow: https://www.granddaughtercrow.com/index.html
Connect with me here: https://www.jennycbell.com/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey witches, welcome to another Cozy Coven Chat.
I'm your host, jenny C Bell,and today I have the great
pleasure to bring to you aconversation with Granddaughter
Crow.
Granddaughter Crow is amedicine woman, public speaker,
teacher, intuitive reader andauthor of Wisdom of the Natural
World.
Descended from a long line ofspiritual leaders, she is an
(00:21):
empath medium and member of theNavajo Nation leaders.
She is an empath medium andmember of the Navajo Nation.
She was voted Women of the Yearin 2015 by the National
Association of ProfessionalWomen.
For more, you can learn abouther by visiting
granddaughtertocrowcom.
And in this conversation we arediscussing her latest book,
shamanism and your Shadow UsingAnimal Guides to Explore and
(00:43):
Heal your Inner Self and yourshadow using animal guides to
explore and heal your inner self.
And this is such a wonderfulconversation about shadow work
and also about taboos.
So each one of the animals inher book has taboos and
superstitions surrounding them.
The word witch has taboos andsuperstitions surrounding it.
It is such a beautiful story tohear her journey from a very
(01:07):
religious background to kind ofrunning away from that and then
refinding herself as a witch andlater reclaiming her place as a
shaman.
So I hope you enjoy this chatand without further ado, here it
is.
Welcome, granddaughter Fro, toCozy Coven Chats.
If you could please take amoment to introduce yourself to
(01:28):
our listeners so they can get toknow you a bit better.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Love it.
Jenny, first, thank you so muchfor having me on this podcast.
I've been listening to some ofyour episodes and I am really
jazzed about.
I just said jazzed.
So now you know that I'm old,in my 50s, that's what we used
to say.
I'm really jazzed about beinghere and talking to the Coven of
(01:54):
Witches and having a cozyconversation.
A little bit about me.
They call me Granddaughter Crow.
I am born Navajo and I'm fromthe navajo nation.
I do have some dutch and, um,I'm an author, podcaster, public
(02:14):
speaker, all around, crazy crowjust remember granddaughter
crow and I am also.
Most people know me as shaman,but I'm also a witch.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Thank you, and so I just want to say thank you for
you being here.
For those of you that don'tknow, I actually got my podcast
started because of GranddaughterCrow.
She was able to have me on herpodcast and then give me a few
quick tips on how to start myown and really took a lot of the
anxiety away from me, and so Iwouldn't have my podcast if it
(02:51):
wasn't for you.
So thank you so much for takingyour time and just being kind
and really being.
I know you often say you're ateacher, but you really are.
It's a very natural thing.
You taught me in such a quick,easy way that I felt very
confident, so I wanted to thankyou really are.
It's a very natural thing.
You taught me in such a quick,easy way that I felt very
confident, so I want to thankyou for that.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
You're welcome and, yes, I will be your podcast
godmother.
Is that what you just?
You asked me to be the podcastgodmother.
I am here for the job.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Okay.
So I am very curious.
So you definitely said you're ashaman, but you're also a witch
.
Now I'm on.
I often follow Native TikTok andI have read a lot of literature
by Native American authors.
That was something I studied incollege and I have learned that
a lot of times witch is not apositive word at all in a lot of
(03:46):
Native American tribes, and soyou know there's a big for those
of you that don't know they'relistening In a lot of cultures
there's a really big distinctionbetween witch and shaman, or
healer and witch, and a lot oftimes the witch is not a good
thing, that's not a good likeconnotation, and a lot of times
the witch is not a good thing,that's not a good like
connotation, and it's veryseparate.
(04:09):
And I know a lot of witches seethemselves as healers, as
helpers, like in our Westernkind of, you know, modern
culture, but a lot of othercultures don't see it that way.
So I was like really surprisedthat you were okay with the term
witch.
You're like, yeah, you can saythat, and so I would love to
know why that is.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Right.
So that's.
I'm so glad that you'rebringing this awareness to the
listeners, because that's one ofthose questions that, if you
know the answer, you probablyspoke out of turn and got you
know hushed for it by calling anindigenous person a witch.
So for me, I see the word witchas wise one, the one who
(04:51):
carries wisdom, and also it iskind of spooky and taboo, let's
be honest.
And that's so awesome for theNavajo culture and again, I'm
only going to speak on as aperson, just granddaughter Crow.
I'm not speaking on behalf ofthe Navajo Nation, but there is
(05:13):
a lot of what we would callsuperstition or what others
would call understanding theunseen world as a Navajo, and in
that, jenny, I'm going to bringup a very taboo thing for your
audience, a gift.
There is this term calledskinwalker.
This is a term that you willnot see a lot of literature
(05:38):
about.
Maybe you'll start seeing itmore and more and more because
of the descendants, like like me, of the indigenous people and
more of the silhouette of thefuture of what that culture may
look like.
Skinwalkers basically areshapeshifters.
They have a negativeconnotation, so much so that if
(05:59):
you know or sat with a Navajoand you say that word skinwalker
, they will stand up and leavethe conversation.
You might not ever hear fromthem again because of the
understanding of our words, ourspeech, our thoughts, our things
, and when we say something itis heard and so watch what you
(06:23):
say and then when you say thatword, you're actually calling
that energy to you.
So and then in this skinwalkerstend to be more mischievous,
more like curses and bad spells.
Curses and bad spells.
(06:48):
However, again, it's with, it'sbeen an oral culture and hasn't
been written in like since thelast 200 years, and so there's
not a lot of history, it's alloral.
But I have the understandingwithin my DNA, within my body
and within my knowledge and somethings that have come to me,
that originally skinwalkers werenot negative and that they did
(07:09):
positive things.
So when you look at skinwalkers, they hurt people really bad
and they do all these thingsright, and so they associate
those with the term witch.
So, yeah, why doesGranddaughter Crow, as a Navajo
shaman, also feel verycomfortable in my own skin to
(07:30):
call myself a witch, not onlybecause I understand that witch
means wise ones, but alsobecause I am taboo.
I write books about shadows,the crow and the raven is taboo
to the Navajo Nation.
So I'm that black sheep, so tospeak, you know, and but I find
(07:53):
being a witch amazing.
In fact, I adopted the term andthe identification as witch
prior to adopting the termshaman prior to adopting the
term shaman.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Oh, wow, okay, so so can you tell us a little bit
about that then, like yourjourney into first kind of
embracing being a witch, andthen from there later embracing
common?
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Absolutely so.
In short, I am raised byReverend Jackson Yazzie, of the
Christian faith in the NavajoNation, and he met my mother,
who is Dutch, in seminary school.
So they both graduated asreverends.
(08:43):
So I was raised extremelyChristian dogma.
But when I was I think I wasstill in my mother's womb they
became what the term is calledspirit filled, which means that
they lay hands on the sick, thetype of Christians that lay
(09:03):
hands on the sick and pray forpeople and see visions and
prophesy and all of those giftsright.
So I literally was raised by myparents to do that and I was
the one who was selected to bethe next carer of that torch.
Well, when I was probably about15, I started asking questions
(09:26):
about, well, challenging Ididn't realize that I was doing
it, but I was challenging theirbelief system.
And anyway, long story short,really horrible I.
They kicked me out when I was17, because they thought that I
was possessed.
Possessed because who elsewould challenge God except for
(09:47):
the devil.
Right, and I say this for yourlisteners Like years ago I
thought that this would be like,oh, this is such an odd story,
but I have found that the morepeople I tell this story to.
They're like.
I had similar things.
My parent wasn't a reverend,but all of that kind of stuff,
the questioning of man-madereligion, and so I could see
(10:12):
visions.
I did all of that fun stuff andthen when I left home, I ran as
far away from anythingspiritual as I could.
I was like this is the muggleworld even though that term
wasn't back then right.
This is the mundane world.
I am not going, I don't seeanything, I don't hear anything,
(10:33):
blah, blah, blah.
All of that was just.
You guys were just.
That was crazy until I was 35years old.
So I went to school and I got ajob in corporate America and I
was doing all this stuff.
I went to.
I was walking down the streetwith a friend of mine and she
goes oh my goodness, let's gointo this witch shop.
And I was like, ooh, this wouldget my mother's goat right,
(10:58):
because at age 35, I was still alittle hurt about it.
And so go in there.
I see a tarot reader.
I sit down.
She starts reading.
She's like whoa, you're aspiritual leader, what you have,
all these gifts, what are youdoing?
And I was like how did you knowthis?
(11:19):
I thought that that.
How did you know this?
So anyway, secretly, I got somebooks and I started reading
about, ooh, the four directionsand the elements, and it was
weird because it was similarprinciples that I was raised
(11:39):
with in the spiritualconnotation under the
spirit-filled Christian.
It was similar spiritualprinciples about seeing, about
hearing, about energy, butdifferent terminology and
apparently lost the deity of oneGod, you know the monotheistic
(12:01):
idea.
And so I'm just like so, for soI was what I would call a
solitary closet broom, closetwitch, for I took myself through
a year and a day because I readit in a book and you know all
of that kind of stuff.
And and then one day I wentdown to the shop again and I'm
(12:21):
like um, how do you, how do youbecome?
You become a witch, like do youhave to take a class?
Or?
And they were like, uh, youdeclare it?
I was like I did I get todeclare it?
Like I don't need somebody elsetelling me this.
They're like you declare it.
I'm like I'm a witch, I'm awitch, I'm a witch and I bought
(12:43):
which I brought on this show, myfirst pinnacle.
It has a little raven on it Forthose who are seeing this
visually.
If not.
You can visualize my littlenecklace and I wore it
everywhere I went.
I put it on a long enough chainso that I could just tuck it
into my blouse Nobody knows I'mall up in into my blouse, nobody
(13:04):
knows.
And I'm all up in corporateAmerica.
I'm a witch and nobody knows.
And I felt so empowered and itwas really, really cool, and so
I understood it to be somethingthat allowed me to tap into my
original gifts under a differentname.
(13:26):
And the reason why I feel thatthat's so important to share
with your listeners, jenny, isbecause maybe you guys have that
, maybe you, maybe you used tosee, you know ghosts, or maybe
you used to have dreams orpremonitions and you lost it
because somebody told you thatthat's not what we do.
(13:47):
It's time to find that, dustthat stuff off, get it out of
your broom closet and bring itforward and be empowered.
So then I'm going on my merryway and I'm reading tarot cards,
but actually I'm not readingthe tarot.
I know how to read the tarot,but I was reading animal cards,
right, and so I'm readinganimals and this and that why?
(14:10):
Just because it makes sense tome, the oracle cards.
And after a while people startedsaying, oh, can you teach us a
shaman class?
I'm like, why the hell wouldthey ask me that?
Huh, and they're like, well,yeah, could you teach us about
shamanism?
I never said that I they knowI'm Navajo, they assume shaman.
(14:33):
And I'm just like, for, like Idon't know, maybe a couple of
years, I was invited to um thislunch of this group of women and
when I got there, they're like,oh, this is a shaman lunch that
(14:53):
we all shaman women gettogether and we eat lunch.
And I'm like, oh, wow, okay.
So they looked at me and theysaid are you shaman?
And they said Are you shaman?
And I said, well, until theystopped calling me that I guess
I am.
So it was one of those things.
Right, it was one of thosethings that they, they called me
(15:15):
out because of the way that Iwas behaving.
And so now, shamanism.
I write books on shamanism, allof that.
I teach shamanism, but at mycore, yeah, earth, air, fire,
water, baby, yo, blessed be.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
So okay, so I have a question because I have run into
this, because your book isabout shadow work and we'll talk
about that in a moment.
But I have run into when peopledeny their gifts, right.
So if someone has these giftsand then they kind of like stuff
them down, they become unwellin different ways.
(15:56):
So did that happen to you whenyou kind of like decided that I
wasn't going to do that anymore?
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Yeah, Um, because you know, that's an excellent
question.
I've never been asked that.
I would say that I becameoveractive Like I was.
I decided to go to college whenI was 30.
And I was full time corporateAmerica, full-time mom.
(16:25):
I was a single mom and I alsodid martial arts and I also did
this and I also did that.
I think I distracted myself sohard that when I was it was in
2007, I had a martial artsaccident.
(16:45):
It's a long story, but, inshort, I was on my deathbed not
even knowing it, but I fellreally, really hard Three
surgeries to both of my knees,or two to one, and one knee got
one surgery and the other onegot two surgeries and it put me
(17:10):
down for the count.
I couldn't do martial arts.
I could do my online school,but you know, I mean that's
nothing because I mean I didn'tgo to work, I didn't go out, all
of the distractions were goneand I realized that I was sad,
(17:31):
deeply sad, that I was not happy, that I looked really good on
paper, but I felt lost.
I didn't know who I was.
I felt like almost like if Idon't do make a change now, I'm
(17:51):
going to turn into a puppet andnot know who I am.
And so it was around then in2008,.
I opened up major consulting,hurting, but I was distracting
myself and ultimately they saythat sometimes, when you don't
(18:14):
listen to spirit, it hits youover the head with a two by four
.
Well, it hit me in the kneesthrice and I finally got the
message.
And it wasn't that spirit wasall ha ha ha, you idiot.
It was more like my spirit waslike finally, she's gonna listen
.
So, yeah, I did go through that.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
So would you say, because it sounds like you are a
very spiritual person frombirth really, and then would you
say then that that would belike your, like your second
spiritual awakening or your morefull spiritual awakening.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Absolutely, I definitely.
Although you know it was veryChristianized, I still reflect
back on that time, as my motherwas my first spiritual mentor,
was my first spiritual mentor.
She taught me how to sit andpray and speak in tongues, lay
(19:22):
hands on all of it to the extentthat they were planning on me
dropping out of school at 16because that's legal, and going
to seminary school online andjust becoming a reverend.
I mean, that's how core it was.
It was very gifted as a child,and so then I would say that I
ran away and so, yeah, I wouldsay it was my second spiritual
awakening.
Yeah, I never thought aboutthat either.
(19:43):
Jenny, look at you.
Are you a therapist orsomething?
Speaker 1 (19:54):
This is great, well, actually.
So I used to be an Englishteacher.
That was my past career and Ihad this TA who would always say
the doctor's in, and because Iwould just have student after
student come tell me their storyand never would really give
them advice, because it wasn'tmy place.
I'm more like ask questions andthen by the end of it they'd
know the answer, but I neverreally told them the answer, you
know.
So that's part of why I wantedto do a podcast, like I'm good
at listening, I'm good at askingquestions, but I wanted to
(20:17):
share.
My story is kind of similar.
I was a very spiritual childand grew up Catholic.
I wanted to be a priest.
Then I found out I couldn't bea priest because I was a girl
and I was like, definitely Iwould pray all the time.
I just felt like I felt myangels.
I knew they were there.
I just felt this deepconnection and then that led me
(20:42):
later to witchcraft and all ofthat, and I've talked about that
here on the podcast.
But then I really went into thebroom closet so deeply.
At one point I didn't even havean altar anymore.
I wasn't using my tarot cards,nothing, and I had just really
like denied that part of myself.
And then, what do you know?
I got physically sick.
(21:02):
The person who was caretakingfor my child ended up being
using using drugs.
My work became a hostile,horrible workplace and I ended
up like resigning from my job.
Doing this whole health journeyand, just like you, felt
incredibly sad, like when Ifinally slowed down and I
stopped all the busyness I waslike I'm not really happy doing
(21:26):
what I'm doing anymore.
And it's not that I didn't loveteaching.
I had an astrologer tell me mynervous system wasn't cut out
for that, because it just wasn't.
It's like my nervous system isvery sensitive and I always gave
110% when I was a teacher and Iwas always like I'm an empath,
I'm picking up on kids' feelings.
I'd have students tell mesomething.
I already knew what they weregoing to tell me like, oh,
(21:47):
you're pregnant.
How do you know that?
You know it's just like Ialways just knew, and so it was
like a big, just a big sponge,and then I just got sick.
So I really identify with thatstory and I think a lot of
people can, because you know, Ifeel like the creator whatever
you want to call brings us toour knees sometimes when we are
not living our purpose and weget a chance.
(22:08):
It's like you, you did it, youhad a chance.
It's like okay, I can eithertake a change or I can just go
back to doing what I'm doing,but you did the change and you
seem much happier.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
I would say right for the change 100% because you
know, 20 years later, I am me,I'm not lost, I know who I am, I
know what I stand for, I knowwhat I believe in, I am
empowered.
I don't have to impress.
You know the workplace, I don'thave to do any of that.
(22:42):
I get to be me and it's.
I also want to complimentsomething that you said, that
that does happen in a lot ofstories, where you fall and you
go down for the count andspirits like here's your
opportunity.
And I think that that happensto a lot of people and it's not
(23:02):
a punishment, people, it isliterally.
They are throwing you alifesaver because if you don't
change it around, you may losesense of self and that's not
good.
I don't know who, or I'dprobably be a bitter old, cranky
, condescending, judgmentalwoman at point if I wouldn't
(23:26):
have made that change.
I don't know, but it's verylikely.
It's very likely.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Yeah, I feel very similar started to become jaded,
started to become a reallyunhealthy like my body was like
shutting me down, just like yourbody shut you down.
And I think sometimes, whenwe're a little extra stubborn,
that's what, like, the creatorneeds to do is like, well, I'm
going to shut her down becausethen she has no choice but to
reflect.
Now that she can't move, she'sgot to reflect, right?
(23:54):
So some of us need a strongermessage, I think.
But that's OK, right, and sothat to me is kind of part of
the shadow work journey.
I do want to say I do love yourbook.
It's called Shamanism and yourShadow Using Animal Guides to
Explore and Heal your Inner Self, by Granddaughter Crow.
What I love about this is usingthe animal guides because
(24:17):
there's a lot of books and a lotof methods.
Probably since Jung introducedthe shadow to us, there's
probably like so many things.
Right, I've read a lot of books, but animals inherently are so
(24:37):
healing and not scary, and I'veseen a lot of people like you
you're talking about coming fromlike a Christian background.
They have like religiouswounding and they don't even
want to call on deities becausethey're really scared.
They're like I don't.
That makes me feeluncomfortable inside.
I don't want to call on God.
I don't even want to call ondeities because they're really
scared.
They're like I don't.
That makes me feeluncomfortable inside.
I don't want to call on God.
I don't want to connect toangels but animals.
As we know, they don't judge usand it's such like a gentle
spirit.
So I would love to hear alittle bit more about the book
(25:01):
and why like we, as witches ingeneral, really need to embrace
and work through shadow work.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Absolutely and you hit the nail on the head in
working with animals opens up anatural receptor, irregardless
of what culture you come from,what belief system, what
religion and what all of us up.
(25:30):
Because animals are global andthey're also very easy to access
, because we even utilize themto talk about sports teams.
We'll have mascots, we willutilize them to talk about cars,
(25:53):
like a Bronco or a Jaguar, andwe utilize them to describe each
other or ourselves I'm a nightowl or he's as slow as a turtle.
We utilize those imageries, soit's very natural and safe for
us, and so when we work withthese animal guides in doing the
(26:16):
shadow work, it does open upthat natural receptor, and some
of the feedback that I've beengetting from people who have
been reading it are like I feelmore comfortable doing shadow
work in this way with theanimals, because then I have a
companion to guide me and I'mnot by myself with my own shadow
(26:39):
, which I feared, they told meto fear, and so it's really
amazing and why do I believethat it is beneficial One?
I think it's beneficial foreveryone to do shadow work, for
everyone to do shadow work, butI'm also wise enough to know not
everybody's going to do it.
However, I would highly, highly, highly recommend any witch or
(27:08):
spiritually curious person to doit, because it will one uncover
those hidden gifts that we weretalking about earlier.
It will show you.
You'll remember.
Oh my goodness, I did used tosee grandpa or whatever in the
corner, and mom told me not to,and that was the devil.
So I stopped seeing it and so Ihid that because I was ashamed
of it.
So it became part of my shadowright.
(27:30):
And so there we do hide.
When we get shamed for things,we hide them, and hence shadow.
Shadow means hidden, and so,one, it will bring out a lot
more of your gifts.
Two, it will increase yourmagic exponentially, and the
(27:50):
reason why I mean I didn Ididn't do you know a
quantitative research studyaround this.
However, I have experienced itin my life when I am going to
spell cast and I am like justice, I'm going to do a ritual and
I'm going to call in justice.
(28:12):
Well, honey, when you call inthe energy, this is what I have
found when you call in theenergy of justice, it's not just
going to go.
Oh, hi, there I'm justice.
What did you want from me?
It's going to go.
Justice is here, and I am goingto look at everything that
you're doing to make sure thatit's just.
(28:35):
And so if you haven't done yourshadow work, that could be
really messed up situation.
If you know what I'm saying,you know.
And so it's kind of like when Iunderstand and embrace my
shadow, not only do I receivemore gifts, but it is half of me
and now I am more whole.
(28:57):
It is the the yin and the yang,it is the day and the night.
Everything in the natural worldthat has the sunlight hit it
casts a shadow to include me andyou.
And so if we go oh, no, no, no,I don't have a shadow.
(29:19):
It's like huh, you're denying ahuge, powerful, creative part of
yourself, and when you doshadow work, it does.
It's not all like, oh, I'mgoing to go into the dark room
and all the boogie monsters thatI've ever feared of come out
Maybe, but that's just your mindplaying tricks on you, or that
(29:41):
old belief system of the peoplewho don't want you to do shadow
work.
And why wouldn't they want youto do shadow work?
Because when you do shadow work, you know more about your
totality, who you are, and youbecome stronger.
Oh, so maybe we should doshadow work so we know more
about ourselves and become morepowerful authentically and we
(30:01):
get to work our magicexponentially.
And you can quote GranddaughterCrow on that one.
I'll die on that hell.
Do shadow work, it willincrease your magic
exponentially.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
No, I think I know that's true from my own
perspective, and I always saypart of why we also do shadow
work is because the shadow isthe feminine.
You know, we all come from thedarkness, we all return from the
darkness, and our veryChristian, very patriarchal
society is all about the solar,the light, right, it's like they
(30:33):
want to just focus on the sunand the light.
They don't want to focus on theshadow, because the shadow is
the unknown, the shadow is thefeminine, the shadow is all the
things we don't understand, thatwe can't prove with science,
right.
And so for me, it's like itreally a lot of people, I think,
are drawn to witchcraft becausethey're looking for something
(30:53):
different and they're lookingfor a way to like, realign their
self, rebalance.
And you can't do that if youdon't bring in the feminine,
because all of us are like inthe Western society, most of us
are just in our masculine allthe time, regardless of our
actual gender.
It doesn't matter, becausewe're just constantly doing and
like what do you do for a livingand what did you accomplish
(31:14):
today?
It's so masculine, whereas thefeminine is like, more about
like.
Did you rest today, did younourish today?
What intuition did you havetoday and I feel like the shadow
work helps balance that and itcan be, like you said, a little
scary for people, but they and Ilike that.
They have an animal guide.
I would like to know how andwhy the animals were chosen Like
(31:37):
that.
Why did you pick those animals?
Did they pick you kind of?
You could share that story witheverybody.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
I love it.
Yes, so the four animals thatare in the shamanism are the
raven, the snake, the owl andthe wolf, and I would definitely
say they chose that role inthis book.
It was almost like a no-brainer, it was like one of those well,
(32:07):
obviously this one andobviously that one.
And then, in thinking aboutlike why would they raise their
hand for that role, it reallybecame a lot more clear.
Because ravens, snakes, owlsand wolves can be very taboo to
a lot of people and inchildren's stories.
(32:30):
So if you are watching a movieand they go to a graveyard, the
soundtrack will have ravens orcrows in the background.
Or if you read about, you know,the Garden of Eden, who was the
devil, the snake, the serpent,or, oh, owls are a sign of death
(32:52):
is around, plus they look alien.
Owls are a sign of death isaround, plus they look alien.
And or the wolf well, we allknow about the big, bad wolf and
how he's going to try to blowour house down.
So those, those are taboo, butthese are brilliant, amazing,
powerful animals and theyreflect aspects of the shadow.
(33:14):
The shadow is taboo, but it isamazing, it is beautiful.
But if you've only heard thosestories about.
Don't you know, don't play withthat, don't talk, don't say
that, then you're missing out ona lot of empowerment.
So I think that's why theychose to be in this book.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Yeah, well, I personally I work with animals
and animal guides in my ownpractice, and those are four
that I've worked with.
And Wolf came to me at like 19.
I was in a pagan meetup groupand the we had a great leader's
name was Sid.
My mom was real nervous aboutme going to this man's house and
(33:56):
she learned he was gay and hada partner and she was like oh,
never mind, you're fine like now, I don't have to worry about
your safety because you're only19, right?
So he would plan these outingsfor us and he planned a visit to
a wolf sanctuary um, it's inLucerne Valley and the woman who
ran it she's Native American.
She took in all kinds of strays, so like wolves that were pets
(34:18):
a lot of times, held by like adrug dealer, used as a guard.
She had a lot of people thatwere formerly houseless and they
worked for her, and we wentthere and she had just acquired
a young white wolf and she wasvery scared and we were all
sitting on the ground in circleand she said you know, her name
is Tanya.
(34:39):
And Tanya was saying like we'rejust gonna like, we're just
getting her used to people.
So if everyone can just likerelax, and I was the only person
she approached and this whitewolf came and she like smelled
me and like laid her head on meand just I have pictures and it
was.
I remember going to dinner withmy friend after and we were
talking about how it was sublime, that experience that's like
(35:01):
terrifying and awe expiring andholy and spiritual.
And I went back to the wolfsanctuary.
Many years later I brought myhusband for the first time and
that wolf was now elderly butshe remembered me because they
never forget a smell and it wasjust proof that animals are,
(35:23):
they're amazing, they can guideus.
And so after that experience, Ireally would call on wolf
energy, I would like pray forthe wolves of the world to come
back and be able to reclaimtheir place.
And then I would.
I had like wolf statues andwolf T-shirts, like I just
really embraced that because,you know, growing growing up, I
read the stories of the Big BadWolf and the Red Riding Hood and
(35:46):
the wolf and later takingclasses and studying fairy tales
and folk tales in college, likereally learning that the wolf
was symbolic of men.
Fairy tales and folk tales incollege, like really learning
that the wolf was symbolic ofmen, you know.
And Red Riding Hood, she's theinnocent young girl with the
scary man.
That's what he actuallyrepresented, and so it was just
I love.
I love that you chose them,because they are the ones that
(36:07):
everyone is saying is taboo orthey're afraid of.
You know, so many people areafraid of snakes and I like love
ravens and crows and I willlike die on that hill Like
they're the best.
I talked to the ones that cometo my yard.
They're super smart.
They're as like smart as aseven year old, like they're
amazing animals, and so I loveit's like you're, you're giving
(36:27):
them.
You're giving them a chance,like being in this book.
Like you're, you're changingthe collective consciousness.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
You know they're getting this chance to like
reclaim their place as aspiritual holy helper.
I think I love that.
Thank you so much for that,because that's one of the things
that is coming back as feedbackis, people are like, oh, and
then the raven came, and thenthe owl, who does this?
And yeah, and, and they'rebecoming allies, our spiritual
(37:04):
allies, once again.
So you know, I mean how often.
Why would you pick up ashamanism and shadow book when
it's like, oh, you're going tobe working with the bunny and
the butterfly, a puppy and akitten.
You know it's kind of like.
So you know, if we're gonna, ifwe're going to become powerful
(37:27):
and look at who has beenostracized from society just
like our shadow gets ostracizedfrom society why not invite in
the allies?
Speaker 1 (37:40):
I love that and I love that owl is included,
because that's a big taboo in alot of cultures, right?
Especially, I know, inindigenous culture.
Right, owls aren't always seenas good.
They're like a scary symbol, isthat right?
Speaker 2 (37:55):
Very, very, very scary, absolutely.
I remember a couple of quickstories.
I remember, see, english was myfather's second language.
So he was born in 1932.
1932.
(38:20):
And so he lived, and then he,then he went to the army and
then he got Christianized.
Well, he went to the boardingschool, got Christianized, went
to the army, gotre-Christianized, came out, went
to seminary school and there heis.
But even because of his blood,there would be stories that I
would hear oh, your dad willnever say the word wolf in
Navajo.
(38:40):
Why?
Because he's calling it Backagain.
My dear witches, watch yourwords, because they manifest and
doing shadow work actuallymakes them stronger, because you
know what you're doing.
So my dad was not allowed, hisspirit was not allowed to call
(39:01):
the spirit of the wolf.
And then one day, when I wasreally young, my dad seemed I
mean, he didn't talk that much,but he seemed like he wasn't
doing very well sad.
And I asked my mom, why is dadsad?
And she pulled me into theother room and she's like he's
been seeing owls around theneighborhood.
(39:21):
And I'm like, what does thatmean?
And she goes that meanssomebody is going to die.
So that's how close thatunderstanding of that.
These are not good things.
And then I went down to thereservation and saw my cousins
and and they're even, they'remedicine people, but then
they're just like you're playingwith the serpent.
(39:43):
And I'm like, yeah, and they'relike Navajos, do not play with
serpents.
It causes our energy to goimbalanced.
And I'm like, well, I did and Istill do, you know.
So there's still a lot of thatyou know.
Oh, and also, the raven is verytaboo.
When I mention you know thatcrows and ravens are my totem,
(40:06):
they're just like why would youdo that?
Why not a hummingbird, you know?
And I'm just like, well,because this is who I am, I'm
taboo.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
I love that.
Um, I would like to know ifthere's something that, like our
listeners could leave today anddo like maybe one little step
on their shadow work journey.
Is there something they coulddo?
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Absolutely so.
First and foremost, if you'relistening to this and you're
like, yeah, what is the nextstep?
What can I do today withoutfinding the book and without
doing all this stuff, I willtell you that my belief system
says that that curiosity withinyou is actually the voice of
your shadow wanting you to findit.
(40:52):
So open up your consciousnessand then let's just start with
the ravens and crows.
People, I mean, let's juststart with the ravens and crows,
the winged ones.
Maybe it's an owl, maybe it's ahawk, maybe it is a hummingbird
, the winged ones.
The next time that you see abird in the natural world maybe
(41:17):
he's flying over your car on theway and you're downtown,
whatever Notice that bird andunderstand that it saw you first
, except for if it was a pigeon,because they're kind of dense.
But I'm a crow and I'm as wiseas a seven-year-old, so I can
down the pigeons, but no, butthose beautiful birds crows saw
(41:38):
you and are allowing you to seeit.
Hawk, that hawk definitely knewyou were there.
Are you kidding me?
And he allowed you to see it.
She allowed you to see herEagles.
They are allowing you to seethem and then look at them and
not only understand.
You see me too.
(41:59):
That's where you start buildingthis connection, where it's not
like we're watching a screen,there's a play going on and I've
got to learn my lines.
It's more interactive that youare a part of this natural world
and then see where it flies,see if it's sitting there.
What is it doing?
Is it sitting there looking atyou?
(42:21):
Maybe that's a message for youto stop flying around and sit
down and observe.
Is it headed towards your work?
Maybe that means you need toget to work.
You know whatever the messageis, but they are connected with
you.
So, yeah, as I love how youcall yourself the fortune teller
, I'm going to adopt that,because I love that so much.
(42:43):
Makes me feel like a cookie.
No, I'm playing with you, butit's like, however you fortune
tell, you don't need cards allthe time, you don't always need
your pendulum, you just need totake a walk in the natural world
and the task is to understandthat the natural world sees you
(43:04):
too.
Here is your task go out, toucha tree and tell and touch it
until you know that it sensesyou.
It is a sentient being andmaybe you know because it starts
getting warm under your hand.
Maybe you know, because it hitsyou in the head with its branch
(43:25):
, whatever it is.
But connect, that's the key.
Connect to the wisdom of thenatural world and allow it to
become alive.
And, as odd as that sounds,once you start how does that
relate to doing shadow work?
Once you start really trulyengaging in the natural world
(43:47):
every day, understanding thatyou are the natural world and it
is responding to you too, thenall of a sudden you're not so
afraid of the night or thewinter, because that's the
shadow, that's the darkness.
It becomes organic.
And that's what I that would bethe task a conscious shift.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
That is beautiful and I thank you from the bottom of
my heart for chatting with metoday.
I feel people are going toreally walk away with some
message, a task that anybody cando.
They can just walk around theirneighborhood and start today
and shadow work.
So thank you so much for yourtime.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
Absolutely, oh my goodness.
And everybody out there,wherever you are, love you, love
you, love you.
You are loved, and maybe I willnever meet you, but I don't
know if you've ever seen a crow.
They told me you're good people.
I love that, thank you.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
Thank you, witches, for listening.
I hope you enjoyed this chatwith Granddaughter Crow and I
hope she inspired you to getoutside and open yourself a
little more to nature as thebeginning of a shadow work
journey.
As I've said before, shadowwork is lifelong.
It's not a one and done, and soit's something we're kind of
having to constantly circle backto peel off another layer of
(45:13):
the onion or go further on thespiral, so I hope this helps you
.
You can find her atgranddaughtercrowcom and all of
her socials at granddaughtercrow, and she also has a really
great podcast as well calledBelief, being and Beyond, so I
suggest you check that out too.
Thanks,
Hey witches, welcome to another Cozy Coven Chat.
I'm your host, jenny C Bell,and today I have the great
pleasure to bring to you aconversation with Granddaughter
Crow.
Granddaughter Crow is amedicine woman, public speaker,
teacher, intuitive reader andauthor of Wisdom of the Natural
World.
Descended from a long line ofspiritual leaders, she is an
(00:21):
empath medium and member of theNavajo Nation leaders.
She is an empath medium andmember of the Navajo Nation.
She was voted Women of the Yearin 2015 by the National
Association of ProfessionalWomen.
For more, you can learn abouther by visiting
granddaughtertocrowcom.
And in this conversation we arediscussing her latest book,
shamanism and your Shadow UsingAnimal Guides to Explore and
(00:43):
Heal your Inner Self and yourshadow using animal guides to
explore and heal your inner self.
And this is such a wonderfulconversation about shadow work
and also about taboos.
So each one of the animals inher book has taboos and
superstitions surrounding them.
The word witch has taboos andsuperstitions surrounding it.
It is such a beautiful story tohear her journey from a very
(01:07):
religious background to kind ofrunning away from that and then
refinding herself as a witch andlater reclaiming her place as a
shaman.
So I hope you enjoy this chatand without further ado, here it
is.
Welcome, granddaughter Fro, toCozy Coven Chats.
If you could please take amoment to introduce yourself to
(01:28):
our listeners so they can get toknow you a bit better.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Love it.
Jenny, first, thank you so muchfor having me on this podcast.
I've been listening to some ofyour episodes and I am really
jazzed about.
I just said jazzed.
So now you know that I'm old,in my 50s, that's what we used
to say.
I'm really jazzed about beinghere and talking to the Coven of
(01:54):
Witches and having a cozyconversation.
A little bit about me.
They call me Granddaughter Crow.
I am born Navajo and I'm fromthe navajo nation.
I do have some dutch and, um,I'm an author, podcaster, public
(02:14):
speaker, all around, crazy crowjust remember granddaughter
crow and I am also.
Most people know me as shaman,but I'm also a witch.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Thank you, and so I just want to say thank you for
you being here.
For those of you that don'tknow, I actually got my podcast
started because of GranddaughterCrow.
She was able to have me on herpodcast and then give me a few
quick tips on how to start myown and really took a lot of the
anxiety away from me, and so Iwouldn't have my podcast if it
(02:51):
wasn't for you.
So thank you so much for takingyour time and just being kind
and really being.
I know you often say you're ateacher, but you really are.
It's a very natural thing.
You taught me in such a quick,easy way that I felt very
confident, so I wanted to thankyou really are.
It's a very natural thing.
You taught me in such a quick,easy way that I felt very
confident, so I want to thankyou for that.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
You're welcome and, yes, I will be your podcast
godmother.
Is that what you just?
You asked me to be the podcastgodmother.
I am here for the job.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Okay.
So I am very curious.
So you definitely said you're ashaman, but you're also a witch
.
Now I'm on.
I often follow Native TikTok andI have read a lot of literature
by Native American authors.
That was something I studied incollege and I have learned that
a lot of times witch is not apositive word at all in a lot of
(03:46):
Native American tribes, and soyou know there's a big for those
of you that don't know they'relistening In a lot of cultures
there's a really big distinctionbetween witch and shaman, or
healer and witch, and a lot oftimes the witch is not a good
thing, that's not a good likeconnotation, and a lot of times
the witch is not a good thing,that's not a good like
connotation, and it's veryseparate.
(04:09):
And I know a lot of witches seethemselves as healers, as
helpers, like in our Westernkind of, you know, modern
culture, but a lot of othercultures don't see it that way.
So I was like really surprisedthat you were okay with the term
witch.
You're like, yeah, you can saythat, and so I would love to
know why that is.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Right.
So that's.
I'm so glad that you'rebringing this awareness to the
listeners, because that's one ofthose questions that, if you
know the answer, you probablyspoke out of turn and got you
know hushed for it by calling anindigenous person a witch.
So for me, I see the word witchas wise one, the one who
(04:51):
carries wisdom, and also it iskind of spooky and taboo, let's
be honest.
And that's so awesome for theNavajo culture and again, I'm
only going to speak on as aperson, just granddaughter Crow.
I'm not speaking on behalf ofthe Navajo Nation, but there is
(05:13):
a lot of what we would callsuperstition or what others
would call understanding theunseen world as a Navajo, and in
that, jenny, I'm going to bringup a very taboo thing for your
audience, a gift.
There is this term calledskinwalker.
This is a term that you willnot see a lot of literature
(05:38):
about.
Maybe you'll start seeing itmore and more and more because
of the descendants, like like me, of the indigenous people and
more of the silhouette of thefuture of what that culture may
look like.
Skinwalkers basically areshapeshifters.
They have a negativeconnotation, so much so that if
(05:59):
you know or sat with a Navajoand you say that word skinwalker
, they will stand up and leavethe conversation.
You might not ever hear fromthem again because of the
understanding of our words, ourspeech, our thoughts, our things
, and when we say something itis heard and so watch what you
(06:23):
say and then when you say thatword, you're actually calling
that energy to you.
So and then in this skinwalkerstend to be more mischievous,
more like curses and bad spells.
Curses and bad spells.
(06:48):
However, again, it's with, it'sbeen an oral culture and hasn't
been written in like since thelast 200 years, and so there's
not a lot of history, it's alloral.
But I have the understandingwithin my DNA, within my body
and within my knowledge and somethings that have come to me,
that originally skinwalkers werenot negative and that they did
(07:09):
positive things.
So when you look at skinwalkers, they hurt people really bad
and they do all these thingsright, and so they associate
those with the term witch.
So, yeah, why doesGranddaughter Crow, as a Navajo
shaman, also feel verycomfortable in my own skin to
(07:30):
call myself a witch, not onlybecause I understand that witch
means wise ones, but alsobecause I am taboo.
I write books about shadows,the crow and the raven is taboo
to the Navajo Nation.
So I'm that black sheep, so tospeak, you know, and but I find
(07:53):
being a witch amazing.
In fact, I adopted the term andthe identification as witch
prior to adopting the termshaman prior to adopting the
term shaman.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Oh, wow, okay, so so can you tell us a little bit
about that then, like yourjourney into first kind of
embracing being a witch, andthen from there later embracing
common?
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Absolutely so.
In short, I am raised byReverend Jackson Yazzie, of the
Christian faith in the NavajoNation, and he met my mother,
who is Dutch, in seminary school.
So they both graduated asreverends.
(08:43):
So I was raised extremelyChristian dogma.
But when I was I think I wasstill in my mother's womb they
became what the term is calledspirit filled, which means that
they lay hands on the sick, thetype of Christians that lay
(09:03):
hands on the sick and pray forpeople and see visions and
prophesy and all of those giftsright.
So I literally was raised by myparents to do that and I was
the one who was selected to bethe next carer of that torch.
Well, when I was probably about15, I started asking questions
(09:26):
about, well, challenging Ididn't realize that I was doing
it, but I was challenging theirbelief system.
And anyway, long story short,really horrible I.
They kicked me out when I was17, because they thought that I
was possessed.
Possessed because who elsewould challenge God except for
(09:47):
the devil.
Right, and I say this for yourlisteners Like years ago I
thought that this would be like,oh, this is such an odd story,
but I have found that the morepeople I tell this story to.
They're like.
I had similar things.
My parent wasn't a reverend,but all of that kind of stuff,
the questioning of man-madereligion, and so I could see
(10:12):
visions.
I did all of that fun stuff andthen when I left home, I ran as
far away from anythingspiritual as I could.
I was like this is the muggleworld even though that term
wasn't back then right.
This is the mundane world.
I am not going, I don't seeanything, I don't hear anything,
(10:33):
blah, blah, blah.
All of that was just.
You guys were just.
That was crazy until I was 35years old.
So I went to school and I got ajob in corporate America and I
was doing all this stuff.
I went to.
I was walking down the streetwith a friend of mine and she
goes oh my goodness, let's gointo this witch shop.
And I was like, ooh, this wouldget my mother's goat right,
(10:58):
because at age 35, I was still alittle hurt about it.
And so go in there.
I see a tarot reader.
I sit down.
She starts reading.
She's like whoa, you're aspiritual leader, what you have,
all these gifts, what are youdoing?
And I was like how did you knowthis?
(11:19):
I thought that that.
How did you know this?
So anyway, secretly, I got somebooks and I started reading
about, ooh, the four directionsand the elements, and it was
weird because it was similarprinciples that I was raised
(11:39):
with in the spiritualconnotation under the
spirit-filled Christian.
It was similar spiritualprinciples about seeing, about
hearing, about energy, butdifferent terminology and
apparently lost the deity of oneGod, you know the monotheistic
(12:01):
idea.
And so I'm just like so, for soI was what I would call a
solitary closet broom, closetwitch, for I took myself through
a year and a day because I readit in a book and you know all
of that kind of stuff.
And and then one day I wentdown to the shop again and I'm
(12:21):
like um, how do you, how do youbecome?
You become a witch, like do youhave to take a class?
Or?
And they were like, uh, youdeclare it?
I was like I did I get todeclare it?
Like I don't need somebody elsetelling me this.
They're like you declare it.
I'm like I'm a witch, I'm awitch, I'm a witch and I bought
(12:43):
which I brought on this show, myfirst pinnacle.
It has a little raven on it Forthose who are seeing this
visually.
If not.
You can visualize my littlenecklace and I wore it
everywhere I went.
I put it on a long enough chainso that I could just tuck it
into my blouse Nobody knows I'mall up in into my blouse, nobody
(13:04):
knows.
And I'm all up in corporateAmerica.
I'm a witch and nobody knows.
And I felt so empowered and itwas really, really cool, and so
I understood it to be somethingthat allowed me to tap into my
original gifts under a differentname.
(13:26):
And the reason why I feel thatthat's so important to share
with your listeners, jenny, isbecause maybe you guys have that
, maybe you, maybe you used tosee, you know ghosts, or maybe
you used to have dreams orpremonitions and you lost it
because somebody told you thatthat's not what we do.
(13:47):
It's time to find that, dustthat stuff off, get it out of
your broom closet and bring itforward and be empowered.
So then I'm going on my merryway and I'm reading tarot cards,
but actually I'm not readingthe tarot.
I know how to read the tarot,but I was reading animal cards,
right, and so I'm readinganimals and this and that why?
(14:10):
Just because it makes sense tome, the oracle cards.
And after a while people startedsaying, oh, can you teach us a
shaman class?
I'm like, why the hell wouldthey ask me that?
Huh, and they're like, well,yeah, could you teach us about
shamanism?
I never said that I they knowI'm Navajo, they assume shaman.
(14:33):
And I'm just like, for, like Idon't know, maybe a couple of
years, I was invited to um thislunch of this group of women and
when I got there, they're like,oh, this is a shaman lunch that
(14:53):
we all shaman women gettogether and we eat lunch.
And I'm like, oh, wow, okay.
So they looked at me and theysaid are you shaman?
And they said Are you shaman?
And I said, well, until theystopped calling me that I guess
I am.
So it was one of those things.
Right, it was one of thosethings that they, they called me
(15:15):
out because of the way that Iwas behaving.
And so now, shamanism.
I write books on shamanism, allof that.
I teach shamanism, but at mycore, yeah, earth, air, fire,
water, baby, yo, blessed be.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
So okay, so I have a question because I have run into
this, because your book isabout shadow work and we'll talk
about that in a moment.
But I have run into when peopledeny their gifts, right.
So if someone has these giftsand then they kind of like stuff
them down, they become unwellin different ways.
(15:56):
So did that happen to you whenyou kind of like decided that I
wasn't going to do that anymore?
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Yeah, Um, because you know, that's an excellent
question.
I've never been asked that.
I would say that I becameoveractive Like I was.
I decided to go to college whenI was 30.
And I was full time corporateAmerica, full-time mom.
(16:25):
I was a single mom and I alsodid martial arts and I also did
this and I also did that.
I think I distracted myself sohard that when I was it was in
2007, I had a martial artsaccident.
(16:45):
It's a long story, but, inshort, I was on my deathbed not
even knowing it, but I fellreally, really hard Three
surgeries to both of my knees,or two to one, and one knee got
one surgery and the other onegot two surgeries and it put me
(17:10):
down for the count.
I couldn't do martial arts.
I could do my online school,but you know, I mean that's
nothing because I mean I didn'tgo to work, I didn't go out, all
of the distractions were goneand I realized that I was sad,
(17:31):
deeply sad, that I was not happy, that I looked really good on
paper, but I felt lost.
I didn't know who I was.
I felt like almost like if Idon't do make a change now, I'm
(17:51):
going to turn into a puppet andnot know who I am.
And so it was around then in2008,.
I opened up major consulting,hurting, but I was distracting
myself and ultimately they saythat sometimes, when you don't
(18:14):
listen to spirit, it hits youover the head with a two by four
.
Well, it hit me in the kneesthrice and I finally got the
message.
And it wasn't that spirit wasall ha ha ha, you idiot.
It was more like my spirit waslike finally, she's gonna listen
.
So, yeah, I did go through that.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
So would you say, because it sounds like you are a
very spiritual person frombirth really, and then would you
say then that that would belike your, like your second
spiritual awakening or your morefull spiritual awakening.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Absolutely, I definitely.
Although you know it was veryChristianized, I still reflect
back on that time, as my motherwas my first spiritual mentor,
was my first spiritual mentor.
She taught me how to sit andpray and speak in tongues, lay
(19:22):
hands on all of it to the extentthat they were planning on me
dropping out of school at 16because that's legal, and going
to seminary school online andjust becoming a reverend.
I mean, that's how core it was.
It was very gifted as a child,and so then I would say that I
ran away and so, yeah, I wouldsay it was my second spiritual
awakening.
Yeah, I never thought aboutthat either.
(19:43):
Jenny, look at you.
Are you a therapist orsomething?
Speaker 1 (19:54):
This is great, well, actually.
So I used to be an Englishteacher.
That was my past career and Ihad this TA who would always say
the doctor's in, and because Iwould just have student after
student come tell me their storyand never would really give
them advice, because it wasn'tmy place.
I'm more like ask questions andthen by the end of it they'd
know the answer, but I neverreally told them the answer, you
know.
So that's part of why I wantedto do a podcast, like I'm good
at listening, I'm good at askingquestions, but I wanted to
(20:17):
share.
My story is kind of similar.
I was a very spiritual childand grew up Catholic.
I wanted to be a priest.
Then I found out I couldn't bea priest because I was a girl
and I was like, definitely Iwould pray all the time.
I just felt like I felt myangels.
I knew they were there.
I just felt this deepconnection and then that led me
(20:42):
later to witchcraft and all ofthat, and I've talked about that
here on the podcast.
But then I really went into thebroom closet so deeply.
At one point I didn't even havean altar anymore.
I wasn't using my tarot cards,nothing, and I had just really
like denied that part of myself.
And then, what do you know?
I got physically sick.
(21:02):
The person who was caretakingfor my child ended up being
using using drugs.
My work became a hostile,horrible workplace and I ended
up like resigning from my job.
Doing this whole health journeyand, just like you, felt
incredibly sad, like when Ifinally slowed down and I
stopped all the busyness I waslike I'm not really happy doing
(21:26):
what I'm doing anymore.
And it's not that I didn't loveteaching.
I had an astrologer tell me mynervous system wasn't cut out
for that, because it just wasn't.
It's like my nervous system isvery sensitive and I always gave
110% when I was a teacher and Iwas always like I'm an empath,
I'm picking up on kids' feelings.
I'd have students tell mesomething.
I already knew what they weregoing to tell me like, oh,
(21:47):
you're pregnant.
How do you know that?
You know it's just like Ialways just knew, and so it was
like a big, just a big sponge,and then I just got sick.
So I really identify with thatstory and I think a lot of
people can, because you know, Ifeel like the creator whatever
you want to call brings us toour knees sometimes when we are
not living our purpose and weget a chance.
(22:08):
It's like you, you did it, youhad a chance.
It's like okay, I can eithertake a change or I can just go
back to doing what I'm doing,but you did the change and you
seem much happier.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
I would say right for the change 100% because you
know, 20 years later, I am me,I'm not lost, I know who I am, I
know what I stand for, I knowwhat I believe in, I am
empowered.
I don't have to impress.
You know the workplace, I don'thave to do any of that.
(22:42):
I get to be me and it's.
I also want to complimentsomething that you said, that
that does happen in a lot ofstories, where you fall and you
go down for the count andspirits like here's your
opportunity.
And I think that that happensto a lot of people and it's not
(23:02):
a punishment, people, it isliterally.
They are throwing you alifesaver because if you don't
change it around, you may losesense of self and that's not
good.
I don't know who, or I'dprobably be a bitter old, cranky
, condescending, judgmentalwoman at point if I wouldn't
(23:26):
have made that change.
I don't know, but it's verylikely.
It's very likely.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Yeah, I feel very similar started to become jaded,
started to become a reallyunhealthy like my body was like
shutting me down, just like yourbody shut you down.
And I think sometimes, whenwe're a little extra stubborn,
that's what, like, the creatorneeds to do is like, well, I'm
going to shut her down becausethen she has no choice but to
reflect.
Now that she can't move, she'sgot to reflect, right?
(23:54):
So some of us need a strongermessage, I think.
But that's OK, right, and sothat to me is kind of part of
the shadow work journey.
I do want to say I do love yourbook.
It's called Shamanism and yourShadow Using Animal Guides to
Explore and Heal your Inner Self, by Granddaughter Crow.
What I love about this is usingthe animal guides because
(24:17):
there's a lot of books and a lotof methods.
Probably since Jung introducedthe shadow to us, there's
probably like so many things.
Right, I've read a lot of books, but animals inherently are so
(24:37):
healing and not scary, and I'veseen a lot of people like you
you're talking about coming fromlike a Christian background.
They have like religiouswounding and they don't even
want to call on deities becausethey're really scared.
They're like I don't.
That makes me feeluncomfortable inside.
I don't want to call on God.
I don't even want to call ondeities because they're really
scared.
They're like I don't.
That makes me feeluncomfortable inside.
I don't want to call on God.
I don't want to connect toangels but animals.
As we know, they don't judge usand it's such like a gentle
spirit.
So I would love to hear alittle bit more about the book
(25:01):
and why like we, as witches ingeneral, really need to embrace
and work through shadow work.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Absolutely and you hit the nail on the head in
working with animals opens up anatural receptor, irregardless
of what culture you come from,what belief system, what
religion and what all of us up.
(25:30):
Because animals are global andthey're also very easy to access
, because we even utilize themto talk about sports teams.
We'll have mascots, we willutilize them to talk about cars,
(25:53):
like a Bronco or a Jaguar, andwe utilize them to describe each
other or ourselves I'm a nightowl or he's as slow as a turtle.
We utilize those imageries, soit's very natural and safe for
us, and so when we work withthese animal guides in doing the
(26:16):
shadow work, it does open upthat natural receptor, and some
of the feedback that I've beengetting from people who have
been reading it are like I feelmore comfortable doing shadow
work in this way with theanimals, because then I have a
companion to guide me and I'mnot by myself with my own shadow
(26:39):
, which I feared, they told meto fear, and so it's really
amazing and why do I believethat it is beneficial One?
I think it's beneficial foreveryone to do shadow work, for
everyone to do shadow work, butI'm also wise enough to know not
everybody's going to do it.
However, I would highly, highly, highly recommend any witch or
(27:08):
spiritually curious person to doit, because it will one uncover
those hidden gifts that we weretalking about earlier.
It will show you.
You'll remember.
Oh my goodness, I did used tosee grandpa or whatever in the
corner, and mom told me not to,and that was the devil.
So I stopped seeing it and so Ihid that because I was ashamed
of it.
So it became part of my shadowright.
(27:30):
And so there we do hide.
When we get shamed for things,we hide them, and hence shadow.
Shadow means hidden, and so,one, it will bring out a lot
more of your gifts.
Two, it will increase yourmagic exponentially, and the
(27:50):
reason why I mean I didn Ididn't do you know a
quantitative research studyaround this.
However, I have experienced itin my life when I am going to
spell cast and I am like justice, I'm going to do a ritual and
I'm going to call in justice.
(28:12):
Well, honey, when you call inthe energy, this is what I have
found when you call in theenergy of justice, it's not just
going to go.
Oh, hi, there I'm justice.
What did you want from me?
It's going to go.
Justice is here, and I am goingto look at everything that
you're doing to make sure thatit's just.
(28:35):
And so if you haven't done yourshadow work, that could be
really messed up situation.
If you know what I'm saying,you know.
And so it's kind of like when Iunderstand and embrace my
shadow, not only do I receivemore gifts, but it is half of me
and now I am more whole.
(28:57):
It is the the yin and the yang,it is the day and the night.
Everything in the natural worldthat has the sunlight hit it
casts a shadow to include me andyou.
And so if we go oh, no, no, no,I don't have a shadow.
(29:19):
It's like huh, you're denying ahuge, powerful, creative part of
yourself, and when you doshadow work, it does.
It's not all like, oh, I'mgoing to go into the dark room
and all the boogie monsters thatI've ever feared of come out
Maybe, but that's just your mindplaying tricks on you, or that
(29:41):
old belief system of the peoplewho don't want you to do shadow
work.
And why wouldn't they want youto do shadow work?
Because when you do shadow work, you know more about your
totality, who you are, and youbecome stronger.
Oh, so maybe we should doshadow work so we know more
about ourselves and become morepowerful authentically and we
(30:01):
get to work our magicexponentially.
And you can quote GranddaughterCrow on that one.
I'll die on that hell.
Do shadow work, it willincrease your magic
exponentially.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
No, I think I know that's true from my own
perspective, and I always saypart of why we also do shadow
work is because the shadow isthe feminine.
You know, we all come from thedarkness, we all return from the
darkness, and our veryChristian, very patriarchal
society is all about the solar,the light, right, it's like they
(30:33):
want to just focus on the sunand the light.
They don't want to focus on theshadow, because the shadow is
the unknown, the shadow is thefeminine, the shadow is all the
things we don't understand, thatwe can't prove with science,
right.
And so for me, it's like itreally a lot of people, I think,
are drawn to witchcraft becausethey're looking for something
(30:53):
different and they're lookingfor a way to like, realign their
self, rebalance.
And you can't do that if youdon't bring in the feminine,
because all of us are like inthe Western society, most of us
are just in our masculine allthe time, regardless of our
actual gender.
It doesn't matter, becausewe're just constantly doing and
like what do you do for a livingand what did you accomplish
(31:14):
today?
It's so masculine, whereas thefeminine is like, more about
like.
Did you rest today, did younourish today?
What intuition did you havetoday and I feel like the shadow
work helps balance that and itcan be, like you said, a little
scary for people, but they and Ilike that.
They have an animal guide.
I would like to know how andwhy the animals were chosen Like
(31:37):
that.
Why did you pick those animals?
Did they pick you kind of?
You could share that story witheverybody.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
I love it.
Yes, so the four animals thatare in the shamanism are the
raven, the snake, the owl andthe wolf, and I would definitely
say they chose that role inthis book.
It was almost like a no-brainer, it was like one of those well,
(32:07):
obviously this one andobviously that one.
And then, in thinking aboutlike why would they raise their
hand for that role, it reallybecame a lot more clear.
Because ravens, snakes, owlsand wolves can be very taboo to
a lot of people and inchildren's stories.
(32:30):
So if you are watching a movieand they go to a graveyard, the
soundtrack will have ravens orcrows in the background.
Or if you read about, you know,the Garden of Eden, who was the
devil, the snake, the serpent,or, oh, owls are a sign of death
(32:52):
is around, plus they look alien.
Owls are a sign of death isaround, plus they look alien.
And or the wolf well, we allknow about the big, bad wolf and
how he's going to try to blowour house down.
So those, those are taboo, butthese are brilliant, amazing,
powerful animals and theyreflect aspects of the shadow.
(33:14):
The shadow is taboo, but it isamazing, it is beautiful.
But if you've only heard thosestories about.
Don't you know, don't play withthat, don't talk, don't say
that, then you're missing out ona lot of empowerment.
So I think that's why theychose to be in this book.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Yeah, well, I personally I work with animals
and animal guides in my ownpractice, and those are four
that I've worked with.
And Wolf came to me at like 19.
I was in a pagan meetup groupand the we had a great leader's
name was Sid.
My mom was real nervous aboutme going to this man's house and
(33:56):
she learned he was gay and hada partner and she was like oh,
never mind, you're fine like now, I don't have to worry about
your safety because you're only19, right?
So he would plan these outingsfor us and he planned a visit to
a wolf sanctuary um, it's inLucerne Valley and the woman who
ran it she's Native American.
She took in all kinds of strays, so like wolves that were pets
(34:18):
a lot of times, held by like adrug dealer, used as a guard.
She had a lot of people thatwere formerly houseless and they
worked for her, and we wentthere and she had just acquired
a young white wolf and she wasvery scared and we were all
sitting on the ground in circleand she said you know, her name
is Tanya.
(34:39):
And Tanya was saying like we'rejust gonna like, we're just
getting her used to people.
So if everyone can just likerelax, and I was the only person
she approached and this whitewolf came and she like smelled
me and like laid her head on meand just I have pictures and it
was.
I remember going to dinner withmy friend after and we were
talking about how it was sublime, that experience that's like
(35:01):
terrifying and awe expiring andholy and spiritual.
And I went back to the wolfsanctuary.
Many years later I brought myhusband for the first time and
that wolf was now elderly butshe remembered me because they
never forget a smell and it wasjust proof that animals are,
(35:23):
they're amazing, they can guideus.
And so after that experience, Ireally would call on wolf
energy, I would like pray forthe wolves of the world to come
back and be able to reclaimtheir place.
And then I would.
I had like wolf statues andwolf T-shirts, like I just
really embraced that because,you know, growing growing up, I
read the stories of the Big BadWolf and the Red Riding Hood and
(35:46):
the wolf and later takingclasses and studying fairy tales
and folk tales in college, likereally learning that the wolf
was symbolic of men.
Fairy tales and folk tales incollege, like really learning
that the wolf was symbolic ofmen, you know.
And Red Riding Hood, she's theinnocent young girl with the
scary man.
That's what he actuallyrepresented, and so it was just
I love.
I love that you chose them,because they are the ones that
(36:07):
everyone is saying is taboo orthey're afraid of.
You know, so many people areafraid of snakes and I like love
ravens and crows and I willlike die on that hill Like
they're the best.
I talked to the ones that cometo my yard.
They're super smart.
They're as like smart as aseven year old, like they're
amazing animals, and so I loveit's like you're, you're giving
(36:27):
them.
You're giving them a chance,like being in this book.
Like you're, you're changingthe collective consciousness.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
You know they're getting this chance to like
reclaim their place as aspiritual holy helper.
I think I love that.
Thank you so much for that,because that's one of the things
that is coming back as feedbackis, people are like, oh, and
then the raven came, and thenthe owl, who does this?
And yeah, and, and they'rebecoming allies, our spiritual
(37:04):
allies, once again.
So you know, I mean how often.
Why would you pick up ashamanism and shadow book when
it's like, oh, you're going tobe working with the bunny and
the butterfly, a puppy and akitten.
You know it's kind of like.
So you know, if we're gonna, ifwe're going to become powerful
(37:27):
and look at who has beenostracized from society just
like our shadow gets ostracizedfrom society why not invite in
the allies?
Speaker 1 (37:40):
I love that and I love that owl is included,
because that's a big taboo in alot of cultures, right?
Especially, I know, inindigenous culture.
Right, owls aren't always seenas good.
They're like a scary symbol, isthat right?
Speaker 2 (37:55):
Very, very, very scary, absolutely.
I remember a couple of quickstories.
I remember, see, english was myfather's second language.
So he was born in 1932.
1932.
(38:20):
And so he lived, and then he,then he went to the army and
then he got Christianized.
Well, he went to the boardingschool, got Christianized, went
to the army, gotre-Christianized, came out, went
to seminary school and there heis.
But even because of his blood,there would be stories that I
would hear oh, your dad willnever say the word wolf in
Navajo.
(38:40):
Why?
Because he's calling it Backagain.
My dear witches, watch yourwords, because they manifest and
doing shadow work actuallymakes them stronger, because you
know what you're doing.
So my dad was not allowed, hisspirit was not allowed to call
(39:01):
the spirit of the wolf.
And then one day, when I wasreally young, my dad seemed I
mean, he didn't talk that much,but he seemed like he wasn't
doing very well sad.
And I asked my mom, why is dadsad?
And she pulled me into theother room and she's like he's
been seeing owls around theneighborhood.
(39:21):
And I'm like, what does thatmean?
And she goes that meanssomebody is going to die.
So that's how close thatunderstanding of that.
These are not good things.
And then I went down to thereservation and saw my cousins
and and they're even, they'remedicine people, but then
they're just like you're playingwith the serpent.
(39:43):
And I'm like, yeah, and they'relike Navajos, do not play with
serpents.
It causes our energy to goimbalanced.
And I'm like, well, I did and Istill do, you know.
So there's still a lot of thatyou know.
Oh, and also, the raven is verytaboo.
When I mention you know thatcrows and ravens are my totem,
(40:06):
they're just like why would youdo that?
Why not a hummingbird, you know?
And I'm just like, well,because this is who I am, I'm
taboo.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
I love that.
Um, I would like to know ifthere's something that, like our
listeners could leave today anddo like maybe one little step
on their shadow work journey.
Is there something they coulddo?
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Absolutely so.
First and foremost, if you'relistening to this and you're
like, yeah, what is the nextstep?
What can I do today withoutfinding the book and without
doing all this stuff, I willtell you that my belief system
says that that curiosity withinyou is actually the voice of
your shadow wanting you to findit.
(40:52):
So open up your consciousnessand then let's just start with
the ravens and crows.
People, I mean, let's juststart with the ravens and crows,
the winged ones.
Maybe it's an owl, maybe it's ahawk, maybe it is a hummingbird
, the winged ones.
The next time that you see abird in the natural world maybe
(41:17):
he's flying over your car on theway and you're downtown,
whatever Notice that bird andunderstand that it saw you first
, except for if it was a pigeon,because they're kind of dense.
But I'm a crow and I'm as wiseas a seven-year-old, so I can
down the pigeons, but no, butthose beautiful birds crows saw
(41:38):
you and are allowing you to seeit.
Hawk, that hawk definitely knewyou were there.
Are you kidding me?
And he allowed you to see it.
She allowed you to see herEagles.
They are allowing you to seethem and then look at them and
not only understand.
You see me too.
(41:59):
That's where you start buildingthis connection, where it's not
like we're watching a screen,there's a play going on and I've
got to learn my lines.
It's more interactive that youare a part of this natural world
and then see where it flies,see if it's sitting there.
What is it doing?
Is it sitting there looking atyou?
(42:21):
Maybe that's a message for youto stop flying around and sit
down and observe.
Is it headed towards your work?
Maybe that means you need toget to work.
You know whatever the messageis, but they are connected with
you.
So, yeah, as I love how youcall yourself the fortune teller
, I'm going to adopt that,because I love that so much.
(42:43):
Makes me feel like a cookie.
No, I'm playing with you, butit's like, however you fortune
tell, you don't need cards allthe time, you don't always need
your pendulum, you just need totake a walk in the natural world
and the task is to understandthat the natural world sees you
(43:04):
too.
Here is your task go out, toucha tree and tell and touch it
until you know that it sensesyou.
It is a sentient being andmaybe you know because it starts
getting warm under your hand.
Maybe you know, because it hitsyou in the head with its branch
(43:25):
, whatever it is.
But connect, that's the key.
Connect to the wisdom of thenatural world and allow it to
become alive.
And, as odd as that sounds,once you start how does that
relate to doing shadow work?
Once you start really trulyengaging in the natural world
(43:47):
every day, understanding thatyou are the natural world and it
is responding to you too, thenall of a sudden you're not so
afraid of the night or thewinter, because that's the
shadow, that's the darkness.
It becomes organic.
And that's what I that would bethe task a conscious shift.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
That is beautiful and I thank you from the bottom of
my heart for chatting with metoday.
I feel people are going toreally walk away with some
message, a task that anybody cando.
They can just walk around theirneighborhood and start today
and shadow work.
So thank you so much for yourtime.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
Absolutely, oh my goodness.
And everybody out there,wherever you are, love you, love
you, love you.
You are loved, and maybe I willnever meet you, but I don't
know if you've ever seen a crow.
They told me you're good people.
I love that, thank you.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
Thank you, witches, for listening.
I hope you enjoyed this chatwith Granddaughter Crow and I
hope she inspired you to getoutside and open yourself a
little more to nature as thebeginning of a shadow work
journey.
As I've said before, shadowwork is lifelong.
It's not a one and done, and soit's something we're kind of
having to constantly circle backto peel off another layer of
(45:13):
the onion or go further on thespiral, so I hope this helps you
.
You can find her atgranddaughtercrowcom and all of
her socials at granddaughtercrow, and she also has a really
great podcast as well calledBelief, being and Beyond, so I
suggest you check that out too.
Thanks,
Popular Podcasts
Spooky Podcasts from iHeartRadio
Whether you’re a scaredy-cat or a brave bat, this collection of episodes from iHeartPodcasts will put you in the Halloween spirit. Binge stories, frights, and more that may keep you up at night!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.