August 30, 2025 • 64 mins
Welcome to the inaugural episode of "A Writer's Journey," where we peel back the curtain on the creative process with honesty, humor, and heart. Co-hosts JD Myall, Jay Marie, and Mo kick off this series by sharing their personal paths to becoming writers—from childhood escapes into imagination to formal education and professional milestones.
What begins as a simple introduction transforms into a rich exploration of the creative psyche. Jay Marie reveals how documenting microaggressions in college led her to discover screenwriting as her perfect medium. Mo describes writing as "a calling you can't get away from," explaining the peace it brings despite its solitary nature. JD recounts how being an outsider drew her to stories where she could see herself, even when those narratives didn't fully represent her identity.
The conversation dives deep into practical aspects of craft—the joy of world-building, the struggle of revision, the eternal debate between plotting and pantsing. You'll hear candid admissions about the spaces where creativity flourishes (Mo needs aesthetic tranquility while JD can write with the TV blaring) and the ethical considerations of transforming real-life experiences into fiction. When one host admits to turning an ex into a villain, it sparks a fascinating discussion about who "owns" a story.
Throughout runs a thread of revolutionary possibility—how writing in any genre, from fantasy to satire, can address our challenging times. The hosts share their literary heroes (Toni Morrison, Zora Neale Hurston, and Octavia Butler) while examining how these pioneers created space for diverse voices in literature.
Whether you're a seasoned writer or just beginning your journey, this conversation offers both practical wisdom and the comforting reminder that creative struggles are universal. Join our community, share your own writer's journey on social media, and remember the episode's powerful parting message: you have way more to offer than you think.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to Craft Chat Chronicles, the go-to podcast
for tips on craftingbest-selling fiction.
Here at Craft Chat Chronicles,we bring you expert interviews,
insights and tips on writing,publishing and marketing.
Join the conversation andembark on a new chapter in your
writing journey.
(00:26):
For workshops, show notes andmore information, visit
jdmayalcom.
That's jdmayalcom.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
This episode of CrowdChat Chronicles.
We are about to go on awriter's journey.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
Enjoy, hey everybody, welcome to the first episode of
A Writer's Journey.
I'm one of your co-hosts, jayMarie, with my other co-hosts,
jd, mayol and Mo, and what we'llbe talking about is everything
about writing, from craft,insecurities, publishing, more
(01:03):
and everything in between.
In this very first episode,we're going to talk more and
everything in between.
In this very first episode,we're going to talk about
ourselves and just get into howwe became writers and our
journeys.
So, jd, do you want to kick usoff?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
I'm JD.
I am a freelance writer.
I've written for publicationslike Ms Magazine, HuffPost,
Writer's Digest and some others.
I'm a soon-to-be traditionallypublished author.
My novel Heart Scam Bit will beout in 2026.
I co-chair Drexel's MFA AlumniAssociation.
(01:40):
I've been a sensitivity readerfor Macmillan, I've been a judge
in the Wrriters Digest annualwriting competition and I'm a
lover of craft.
So, Jaymarie, tell us a littlebit about yourself.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
I have um, so I've been interested in, I would say,
reading um.
When I was.
I didn't really get intowriting until I was older, but
right now I have an MFA increative writing, one in
nonfiction based in memoir, andthe other one is for
screenwriting.
So what about you, mo?
(02:18):
Tell us a little bit aboutyourself, hey.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
I'm Mo.
I've been writing all of mylife and always loved it.
I have an MA in English and Ihave an MFA in creative writing.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Let's go back to the beginning.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
What first got you into writing Was it a childhood
passion, or was there a bookthat inspired you, or was it
something that you decided topursue later in life?
So for me, I'm the only childand so I had used my imagination
, because that's all I had toplay with and I was a big reader
.
My mom and my grandma were verybig on education, so I had a
(02:57):
book room, I had a toy room andthat included lots of books and
I was really drawn to readingand I was drawn to writing Fast
forward.
I always knew I wanted to write.
That's very cliche, that's whatall writers say, but it's the
truth.
Writing is a calling, I think,and I think that's why everyone
has the same story, because it'sjust like oh, that's something
(03:17):
that would be fun to do.
Like, you are actually called,you can't get away from it.
You actually called, you can'tget away from it.
You know it's, no matter howlaborious and solitary it is,
there's a feeling of joy andpeace that you get from it.
So that led me to eventuallygetting an MA in English.
(03:38):
Then I was like no, I really,really want to write, and then
that led me to get my MFA increative writing from Drexel
University.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
For me.
I also started out as an avidreader.
As a kid Loved reading, lovedlike daydreaming was my thing.
I don't.
I didn't really think of myselfas being a writer.
I thought it was something likeother people did for me to
enjoy, until I got older.
Um, I was in college.
(04:12):
I took a creative writing classand I started thinking, oh, this
is something I might want toexplore.
Um, because I was havingexperiences at college that
weren't so great that I didn'thave.
I guess I didn't have the toolsto be able to explain, like,
what was going on.
And these days there are, thereare terms for microaggressions
(04:33):
and that sort of thing thatpeople use, but I didn't know
any of that at the time.
So it started as like a peopleexploration for me in terms of,
okay, this thing happened, andso I would write it down and
like, oh, you know, she movedthat way and said this, and it
became this people study.
(04:54):
That ended up becoming the waythat I do my character studies.
Um, because I wanted tounderstand, um, the underlying
things of what wasn't said, butbecause they didn't say
something, what did that mean?
That becomes the subtext ofstory, and so I started to learn
(05:16):
craft just on my own in termsof figuring out my own life, and
that's my first novella wasbased on that when I did my
first MFA program, my first MFAprogram of MFA in creative
nonfiction, and so I wrote thenovella for that, and then, as
time went on, I realized thatscreenwriting was actually one
(05:38):
of the perfect tools for me as awriter.
I prefer screenwriting as a wayof layering things and images
in a particular way that I lovewith that, and that's what led
me later on to then get an MFAfocused on screenwriting.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
That's slowly, slowly finding my way into becoming a
writer Love that I kind ofshared some similarities with Mo
in that I was raised an onlychild.
My brother is significantlyyounger than me I was in a dorm
when he was born and my sisteris a half-sister, so we weren't
(06:16):
raised in the same house youknow we lived with.
We shared the same father, wehad different mothers, so we
lived in separate houses.
So writing and reading were myform of entertainment growing up
.
I always loved reading.
I would devour a 300 page bookin a day.
I've been writing since I couldhold a pen, but, like before I
(06:36):
even started physically puttingit on paper, I would, in my
imagination, rewrite my favoritestories and make myself a
character.
Um, like I love the Outsiders.
Growing up I read it 32 times.
I memorized the first paragraph.
I won't bore you by reciting it, but you know I just that was
like I was deeply geeky andawkward and you know still am.
(06:59):
You know a little, you knowdifferent, and writing and
reading were like escapism to me.
So I just thoroughly enjoyed itand enjoy it still, and I guess
that's where it began for me.
Fun fact though, I was in aclass at Drexel and I was
talking to them about how theOutsiders was my favorite book
(07:20):
growing up and it was my mirrorbook.
I saw myself in thosecharacters because they were
treated like outsiders andtreated like they were different
.
And I was in a military areabut they had us like in the
middle of a very Jewishsurrounding area.
So it was like one littlestreet of army kids and then the
rest was like mostly wealthy,mostly Jewish, and I was treated
(07:40):
differently a lot of times inthat environment.
So I identify completely withthe outsiders because the way
the greasers were treated washow I was feeling I was being
treated and I mentioned it inclass once and the teacher was
like, isn't it interesting thatthe book you saw yourself in was
also a book that excluded you?
And then she pointed out thefact that there were no Black
characters and I was like, wow,I need therapy.
What's your favorite thingabout writing and what part of
(08:07):
the process excites you the most?
Speaker 4 (08:10):
jay murray I get really excited about the initial
stages, stages like the comingup with the ideas and the
characters and all of that.
I'm really great at that.
The rest of it can be a bit ofa headache sometimes, but, like,
I do love those initial stagesof like, oh, who are these
people?
Where are they, what are theydoing, what is this about?
Speaker 3 (08:31):
and like putting all that together, um, is the most
exciting part for me the mostexciting part for me is that's
the stage once I know who thecharacters are and their purpose
.
So for me it goes back to likemy first piece I'll never forget
.
We had to write a fable in thesecond or third grade.
(08:54):
We had to write a fable and Iwrote about this little girl
named Marie who wanted to be aqueen, but she didn't come from
royalty and so there was abeehive in the back of her home
and she thought that if she gotstung three times by the bee
that she would become a queen.
And so she went to irritatingand agitating the beehive and
(09:17):
got stung three times and theonly thing she got from it was a
sore arm.
And so the moral of the storywas to be happy with who you are
.
Like.
I felt like oh, once I got thatdown and once I knew what it
was, I remember like I was bustout.
I didn't go to my neighborhoodschool, I was bust out.
And so like I'm excited all theway home and I couldn't wait
(09:38):
and I got off the bus and I ranhome and I just started with my
story.
So I'm always excited when Iknow the, the premise of the
story and what it's where itshould be heading and, man, when
I can start writing it, that'swhen it comes to me.
That's my favorite part.
What grade was that again?
Speaker 4 (09:58):
about second or third .
Wow, that's very deep for likesecond and third grade.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
I love that I went to elementary school, second and
third and all of my friendsloved it.
Like my classmates used to say,they loved it and I was like,
yes, A plus.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
I like world building .
I mean, I guess you can tellthat, since I do a lot of
fantasy, I like creatingcharacters that make people
think and feel I love escapism.
Again, I'm back to that I likeescapism.
That's why I think I likecreating worlds, because I like
to try to speak to the things insociety, but not directly, you
(10:41):
know what I mean Like echo someof the things that are happening
, but in a way that's likefantasy and fun.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
It was really interesting.
I was at a group yesterday withwriters and you know we start.
You know, of course, what'sgoing on in the world now, you
know.
So we are three weeks as we'rerecording post-Trump election,
and so you know we were talkingabout.
You know just what do we do andhow do we fit in.
(11:14):
And it's interesting, there werethose you know who said, look,
I'm not a frontlinerevolutionary, I'm not a
frontline revolutionary, likeI'm not going to be out on the
front line, but this is what Ihave to offer.
And you know, I always say theact of buckling down in writing
(11:48):
is an act of revolution.
What we see now, that weactually have a part in very
historical things happening andthat we get to be recorders of
what's going on, and sometimesthat would be, for some that
would be through nonfiction, forsome that would be through
fantasy, for some that would bethrough contemporary fiction,
for some it would be throughfantasy, for some that would be
through contemporary fiction,for some it would be through
graphic novels, like there's alldifferent ways and spaces.
(12:09):
For some they would be bycreating, you know,
documentaries, right.
For some they could createcomedy and sapphires, you know
sitcoms.
So there's always a space inyou know addressing and
everybody's space is different.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Very true, very true.
What is the hardest part ofwriting for you?
We all have something thattrips us up or that that we
struggle with, whether it's likeplotting or revising or just
getting started.
What's that thing for you, jaymarie?
Speaker 4 (12:51):
how making it all fit together in a particular way.
It's something that I'm still,uh, something I'm particularly
working with craft right now.
It's something I'm working onright now in terms of, um, okay,
like, I have my characters andI have this plot, but first
couple drafts it's not sinking,um, and so, like, right now I'm
(13:14):
going back to was it what theycall it the third rail,
something you know about the, myprotagonist.
What is really propelling herthrough, right?
Um, because my initial thoughtsdon't quite, don't quite fit,
or I feel like, well, I thinkshe's pulling it in a different
(13:36):
direction, I'll put it that way.
And so now for me it's justlike, okay, what is it that
she's deciding, instead of metrying to fit what I thought
this initially was as to.
Okay, well, let's follow.
I need to follow this characterum, this character um has her
own needs and getting clearer onthat, to uh, make it all sync.
(14:01):
Hopefully that makes sense.
So so, right now, somethingthat I'm working on.
That's the harder part for meright now, because this is a
bigger.
It's more of like a fantasyepic that I'm not always writing
, that I'm excited about, buttaking all those like fun
(14:22):
elements and really connectingit to her deeper needs.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Love that.
How about for you, Mel?
What's the hardest part?
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Well, you know, j Marie, that makes a whole lot of
sense, especially because everycharacter is distinct, right,
so they have their own voice.
They sound different, even inyour mind.
They sound different, even inyour mind, like, um, they sound
different.
And we are a lot of times wethrow as writers, we throw
ourselves into these characterslike it's not.
(14:51):
So, it's not, like what would,what would I do?
Well, this character is a 75year old african-american woman.
Um, I don't know right, youknow we're not the same, but
it's just natural to be like Iwould do.
And so that part is separatingthe characters, giving them
(15:12):
their own unique voice and theirown story and their own space,
is definitely always difficult.
For me, anne Lamott talks aboutthe shitty first draft.
For me, anna Mack talks aboutthe shitty first draft.
And you know just, you knowfrom my professional background
where, you know, I'm used todocumenting very succinctly,
(15:32):
very, very tightly.
And so, although I know thatthe first draft is just that,
it's a draft, it is not themanuscript.
You know it will change severaltimes the manuscript, you know
it will change several times Istill spend too much time trying
to get a tight, shitty firstdraft.
And I say tight because in mymind I already know like, well,
(15:54):
it doesn't matter, let's justget this out, but I still want
it tight, I still want it asgood as possible, just to change
it around anyway.
So I tend to spend too muchtime, um, on my, on my first
dress, creating and, and they,they, they are tight, but it's a
(16:14):
waste of time, it doesn'tmatter yeah, I am.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
I think I'm torn between revising being the
hardest part for me, because Itend to revise till I'm sick of
it and just getting started,because sometimes when I'm
writing something I reallyreally like, it's super hard for
me to tear away for somethingelse that I have to do Like
(16:41):
there might be a deadline onsomething, so it's like I got to
get this done, something elsethat I have to do, like there
might be a deadline on something, so it's like I got to get this
done, but I'm really lovingthat, so it's so hard for me to
like tear my focus from what I'mreally really loving.
But the thing is, once I dothat and once I move to the
other thing, you know, and Iactually get started on it, the
passion comes and the love forit comes and I go back into the
stuff I enjoy, like the creatingworlds and all that fun stuff.
(17:03):
And I go back into the stuff Ienjoy, like the creating worlds
and all that fun stuff.
So once I get started, then I'mgoing to like it, but it's just
sometimes getting there becauseI don't want to tear myself
away from something else.
That's a challenge.
And revising because you startoff loving.
I love the creation process.
You start off loving it andthen, when it becomes like a job
, when you're going back to fixit over and over and over again,
you love it less.
And then, by like round 30 ofrevision, you're like if this
(17:28):
shit don't get off my desk, youlove it a lot less by the end.
But the goal is to try to makeit as close to perfect as
possible for the reader.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
But there's definitely a chore for me anyway
have you ever have you guyslike find it difficult, um,
especially in revision, becauseyou you've married something and
now you have to break up withit like, oh man, I love this
line, like this line is, so itwas major and it fits right, but
it's like it's on a.
(17:59):
It's on a cutting block, notfrom an editor, but, like you
realize well, as the storydeveloped, it's not fitting in
as cleanly as it did when youfirst did it.
However, you love it like.
I will try to fix this.
I will try to put it somewhere.
Like it takes me a long time tobe like you know what it's been
(18:19):
.
Nice, I love you, but we gotta.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
Yeah, it's hard I'll break up, especially having to
do that with whole scenes.
I'm just like I love this sceneso much.
Yeah, same thing trying to finda place for it, but it's just
like you know it doesn't workanymore.
You're wasting time.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Find a folder for it because it might work in the
next book.
It might not fit this book inthis scenario, but it might be
like, ooh, that line I lovewould be great here.
You know, that scene I had tocut from book one fits in book
two, perfect.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Well, you do.
I mean, I do say it, but it'slike, no, it was for this and
like you know, that has to bedone and you will.
You know you will do it.
But I'm talking about thatprocess of literally breaking it
, because it's a process likeyou literally going through like
the grief of losing it, likethe like, let's see if this
could work, let's go tocounseling, like, but it's your
(19:13):
creation, so yeah, it's reallyemotional to have to break up
with that scene or that line orthat thing that was like,
sometimes, what the story waseven built upon like, and then
all of a sudden it's like thisdoesn't fit anymore yeah, I know
(19:33):
I've talked about this before,but for me it was when we were
in MFA program and Sadiqa gaveme a brilliant change to my
first chapter.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
But then it would recall reworking the whole
beginning of the book you knowwhat I mean and it was brilliant
.
So at first I was like I don'twant to do that because I don't
want that much work.
But then the more I thoughtabout it, I was like, damn,
she's right.
But it was like you don't wantto cut what you already liked.
But then, ultimately, I had totake the scissors to it because
it made it better and stronger.
(20:05):
But yeah, I've definitely beenin that not wanting to do it,
but it needs to be done.
Phase yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
I found, um, especially with beginnings,
especially like after you get afirst draft done or a second
draft, the beginning is usuallysomething you have to end up
tweaking anyway by the time youget to the end and everything
happens or whatever, and it'sjust like, oh, you have to go
back almost always and tweaksome things and fix things
around to make it work.
(20:33):
So I find going back to thebeginning is something I always
end up having to do anyway.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
I like to go back to the beginning too, because I
like to go back to tweak someforeshadowing in like really
subtle stuff that you wouldn'tpick up on.
But in my mind I'm laughingbecause I know that this is very
much either an echo of the endor a hint about the end, and you
have no clue because you'rejust starting the story.
So you know, I like that.
Are you a plotter, a pantser orsomewhere in between?
(21:04):
Do you do detailed outlines ordo you just dive in and see
where the story takes?
Speaker 3 (21:09):
you depends on the day like I haven't narrowed that
down about me yet, becausesometimes it's just like I can,
I can, I, I can, I'm both, I'mboth.
Sometimes I start out plotting,sometimes I pants it and then
plot.
So it just really depends onhow the story comes to me, what
(21:33):
inspires the story, how I feelwhen I'm writing.
So I tend to, if I get an ideawhile I'm working on a piece,
I'll start plotting.
But I usually, when I sit down,I sit down based on some sort
of thought, some sort ofsentence, some sort of phrase,
(21:56):
and then I'll kind of get thatout.
And then I'll go back andfigure out kind of what that
story is and start kind of veryvaguely outlining, not very
extensive but very like, justvaguely outlining.
But if I am writing somethingand I get another separate idea
(22:19):
for it, that's when my outlinestend to be a little bit more
detailed and that's when I startplotting more.
But I think I usually start offpantsing.
Speaker 4 (22:34):
For me, I go back to my.
I mostly do screenwriting thesedays, so part of my training
it's mostly what you would callplotting, I guess.
So like I plot out my main plotpoints and then, before I even
sit down to start writing thescreens in like the screenplay
format, I have an outline of thescenes and I'm working off the
(22:57):
outline and it's within thescenes, the dialogue and the
action and all of that.
I don't know, I guess that'sI'm still plotting, but then
when I go to write the scene I'mcoming up with it as I go along
.
So I guess it's a mixture ofboth.
But I know the scene objective,because to me otherwise that's
(23:22):
just wasting time.
No, for anybody that uh does thepainting.
But yeah, I, when I sit down Ihave my outline.
So I, I know, for for the mostpart, like what the scene
objectives are, and then as I'mcreating, as I'm writing the
scenes, that's where I go backto, I guess, freedom, that
(23:47):
freedom of when it comes todialogue and movement, but
mostly, yeah, plotting.
I guess I'd be considered aplotter.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
When I first started writing, I was definitely a
pantser.
I just would sit down and justgo, but then the problem with
that would be the stories wouldramble, and I later learned that
people who pants do a lot morerevision to make it make sense.
Basically, and you know, nowI'm somewhere in the middle
because I have to have anoutline.
So I stay focused and I staymoving in a direction, but as
(24:21):
I'm outlining, sometimes thecharacter and the story will
lead me down different avenuesthan I originally started.
It's not going to be completelydifferent, like if I, for
example this is a wild examplethat I'm just going to throw out
there but like, let's say, Ihad planned on them being an
astronaut and landing on theplanet Venus.
They won't then become ascientist and be in a classroom
in Connecticut.
(24:42):
You know what I mean.
So it's not that drastic ofpantsing.
You know they might make it toMars instead or they might make
it to Venus, but somethinghorrible or something different
in the outcome comes.
But so it's not a hugedeviation from my original plot,
but there is some deviation andflexibility and sometimes I'll
like stop and amend my plotalong the way because of, like,
(25:06):
my ideas change like Ooh, whatif this or what if that?
You know what I mean and Imight like slightly amend it,
but it's usually not like awhole 360 turn yeah.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
I'll do that too, Like if the characters are going
in a particular way and I'mlike, oh, this idea makes much
more sense or this is way betterthan you know, I'll allow
myself to make those changes.
I don't necessarily am somarried to that.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
The original outline, yeah so, um, when you're
outlining and stuff, where areyou usually at?
Are you at home writer?
Are you out and about writer?
What's your routine look likeusually?
Speaker 4 (25:49):
I'm at home, I can't be around other people and like
noise and all this stuff.
Um, when I'm doing my likefocus, focus writing, when I'm
like what I call likedevelopment phase and just like
observing people in life, yeah,okay, yes, I'll go outside for
those things.
(26:09):
But if I'm working on somethingspecific, I have to be at home
in my office, quiet or music orsomething.
Yeah, I can't be around otherpeople.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
I, I'm very structured like that too.
I need a space that's kind ofset up, that is aesthetically
pleasing for me, a space that iscalming, quiet, certain, smells
good.
I need this whole kind ofcalming thing going on, and so
(26:51):
that's usually in my inside ofmy home.
Sometimes with revisions andthings like that, sometimes with
revisions and things like that,I can go sit in the park.
Coffee shops do not work for me.
I'm too nosy.
I am like I was out with my momlast week and we went to
(27:11):
breakfast and you know there's alittle tight end corner and it
was.
It was a father and son havinga conversation about you know, I
guess kind of ironing out somethings, and so I'm talking to my
mom, but then all of a sudden,like this whole, when the father
says, you know, I would like totalk to you, you know, if
(27:31):
you're uncomfortable, it's coolI perked up like, oh, this is
about to be good, right, and solike I'm so nosy Not only that,
there was something that hementioned about.
You know, he was theAfrican-American young man here
he was 30, because I ended upminding people's business and
they let me mind their businessand he said something about you
(27:54):
know they're talking aboutsomething that was going on in
high school and how you know he,you know, wasn't doing really
well in high school, but he wasable to get to college and dah,
dah, dah, dah.
So at some point I kind of wasinterested in that story and
it's like you know, I hear yousay that.
You know you said that.
The first thing I say it's likeyou know, I'm sorry I'm going
to address the elephant in theroom.
I'm in your business and then Iwas proceeded to have a
(28:18):
conversation on and I explainedto him that I was a new teacher
and then I worked in an urbanschool and you know, I hear you
say that your grades weren'tgood but that you ended up in
college.
You know how did you do?
You know what was the strugglesfor you?
So that's why I can't, because,even if it was just like me
writing down a dialogue at somepoint, I want to involved, I'm
(28:39):
involved, I'm thinking I startedto have questions in my mind
about other people's business.
So I need to like, know, like,stay out the way.
Um, so the coffee shop thingdoesn't work for me, but like,
and even during revisionsthere's still too much, you know
sensory things going on for meto be able to focus.
(28:59):
But I can go.
I got my MA from Arcadia and Idon't live too far so I get to
go and sit under the tree there.
I do that a lot and do myrevisions.
That works fine, but it has tobe quiet and aesthetically
pleasing be quiet andaesthetically pleasing.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Yeah, I am.
The good part of my add is that, um, chaos around me doesn't oh
, doesn't usually distract mebecause my mind bounces
everywhere anyway.
So, like I can be at home,writing with the tv on can't be
a great show if it's a greatshow to distract me and I watch
it.
So I have a playlist of showsthat I don't find that
interesting or distracting, butI'm aware of them.
You know what I mean.
But they're not good enough tomake me look away from what I'm
doing.
(29:48):
I can write.
I've written in McDonald's,I've written in Starbucks.
I wrote in the library all thetime.
That's part of what led me towork in there, because I just
would be there writing for hours.
I got to know them all.
Then I was like, oh, they'rehiring, well, I might as well
get paid to sit here, sit hereanyway.
So I can pretty much writeanywhere I am, I can.
(30:17):
I'm only distracted, like I said, if it's something really
interesting, like if me and you,mo, would have been in that
same restaurant hearing the sameconversation, I would have been
able to write through that.
Now, if it would have been acouple breaking up or going
through some marital issues.
I might have been like, lookedaway from the keyboard and got
distracted then.
But that little conversation,you know, wouldn't have piqued
my interest as much, so I don'tknow you know wouldn't have
(30:39):
piqued my interest as much, so Idon't know I guess every now
and then I would have beensitting there taking jotting
down notes of what they said andlike what their situation was,
as like story ideas or somethinglike that.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
I was sitting there eating, I'm like, and then he
was talking about this, and thenthe father was like, well, if I
came to every track meet in inhigh school, why wouldn't I come
in college?
And then the son was like, well, I sent you the the roster.
He was like, well, I never gotit and and and like things like
that.
And I'm thinking like, wow,like how much miscommunication
(31:14):
plays a great part in thingslike that's an easy thing.
But then what happens when egogets involved, like I do think,
on those other, what happenswhen ego gets involved?
And this could have been clearedup with, like yo, son, I, you
know what's going on with youruh, you know you're not going to
tell me, you know when, whenyour track meets are.
And he was like, oh, I sent itto you.
Like, oh, I never got it, likeyou know, but they're having
(31:37):
this conversation.
He's done graduated and he's aproductive citizen in the world.
But it was great that they wereable to have that conversation
and reconcile.
But yeah, like I do take noteson stuff and you know it will
show up somewhere, but I can'tListen.
I be involved.
Like I had questions, like canI ask you a question?
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Oh, that made me think about a story that was
floating around a couple ofyears ago, the bad writer friend
story.
I'll refresh people who mightbe listening.
And then there was a group ofwriters who had a friend group,
basically, and one of themdonated a kidney to someone and
basically documented the wholeexperience of them.
Donated a kidney to someone andbasically documented the whole
(32:22):
experience of her donating thiskidney and she wrote a letter to
the person who received thekidney, to the, you know, I mean
to the family of the personthat received the kidney, and
stuff like that, if I'mremembering correctly.
So it was like awell-documented thing.
And then one of the people inher group was inspired by that
and wrote a story about it.
But in the story this woman waslike narcissistic and
(32:45):
self-serving and basically shewas speaking to that person on,
you know, basically giving thekidney and then documenting for
your friends the wholestep-by-step of your kidney
giving process and stuff likethat, and the story became like
a word winning and was doingreally great.
(33:06):
And then the girl who was theone who actually gave the kidney
was offended and ticked and wasbasically feeling like she sold
my life and um, so she startedcalling all these award things
and, um, the woman who wrote thestory was a woman of color and
the other woman wasn't, if Iremember correctly.
So she was calling all thesedifferent award ceremony,
basically complaining, and itended up in a lawsuit that the
(33:42):
girl had posted and she changedit in later drafts but that
ended up coming to bite her inthe butt.
You know, as far as inspiration, you know what I mean versus
documentation, and so it was awhole big thing in the writer
communities of bad writer friendand this, that and the third.
So when you were talking about,oh, that would be inspiration,
it made me me wonder what wouldbe the line for you, like if you
were the kidney-giving personin spring.
(34:03):
What would be the line for youin that scenario?
Where does inspiration?
Speaker 3 (34:08):
Honestly, I honestly don't remember the details.
Some of them sound new to mewhat you're saying.
I remember the conversationaround it and I would definitely
have to go back.
We should definitely come backaround to this, because that
would be really good.
What I remember about it is theconversation was who has the
(34:29):
right to tell a story?
I remember that being the bigconversation around it.
It's in the Times, so I havethat.
I can go back and read it.
The interesting thing is so Idon't know, I don't know, mr A
and MrB, right, I just overhearda conversation and that's.
(34:51):
Writers get inspiration andstories from that all the time.
Um, I wanted to write about anexperience that one of my
friends had.
I would check in with them.
I would check in with them.
I'd be like, listen, I want to.
This would be a great fictionalstory and based around this,
(35:12):
the events of what happened, andI want to write this story.
I want to write a story aboutit, like, how would you feel
about that?
Especially something like youknow something as as personal as
you know donating the kidney orgetting the kidney transplant.
I would let them see the storyfirst and have input.
(35:32):
I would include them in it.
I would ask them first how theywould feel, because the one
thing about it is, I would askthem first how they would feel.
Because the one thing about itis, you know, it's just like I
jokingly one time said that Iwas going to write like a story
about the ex of mine and I likejust say his name was was I'm
(35:53):
just making up a name, let'sjust say his name was Eric.
I was like, well, I just sayDerek, right, jokingly, but this
is the thing I can say Derekall day long.
But if Eric reads the story andhe knows this is what happened
to Rekha, he's going to know I'mtalking about him, right.
So even with certain things,like in there it was like, oh,
(36:14):
she would have known, or sheshould have known, that her
friends were going to know, thatthat's her story, that's her
friend's story, um, so I don'tthink that there's anything
wrong with drawing inspirationfrom a friend, right, but I
think you should check in, Ithink you should how they would
feel about it.
And even if they was like I'mnot comfortable.
(36:36):
But you can always brainstormlike, but this is a really,
really great Like, how can weget this story out, like you
know, in a different kind of way, like you know and they can
help you even come up withsomething else that's still
based on, as they say in movies,based on a true story, but not
necessarily the true story.
Speaker 4 (36:56):
Exactly, I agree going about it that way, but in
this situation it doesn't tellme they weren't actually friends
, so it was like more of apassive, huge,
passive-aggressive way to dealwith this person really.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
Okay, I can read this again.
I remember reading it becauseit was a big thing, but I don't.
I'm going to read it today.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
Alexa Dunn has a whole video breakdown of it, and
one of the things that wasinteresting too is like when it
ended up being a whole courtthing or whatever is that?
Like the group messages weresubpoenaed and ended up later
being revealed and her friendsreally weren't her friends.
All of her friends were likeco-signing on this and bashing
her in this scenario and a lotof them were just like if I
(37:47):
remember correctly, a lot ofthem were just like wow, this is
really disgusting that you knowthe way you're like
step-by-step documenting this orwhatever.
You know what I mean.
Like, if I remember correctly,it was a lot of shady so-called
friends, an interesting scenario.
But I think y'all are rightchecking with the person.
I've never had a situation wheresomething a friend has done has
(38:09):
been something, so, you know,intriguing, where I'd be like,
oh, I should write a story aboutthat, especially because I
write teen like fantasy andstuff like that.
So, like none of y'all havedone, like you know, burned down
houses or anything crazy Icould use for climax.
You know I have had um, an ex,who pissed me off and hurt me to
the point where I made him avillain in the book.
(38:30):
None of the rest of the storywas like him, but I definitely
made him the villain in thestory and he knew I mean he sure
had told him that and he wasactually surprisingly cool with
it.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
So I, I think so.
I write contemporary, you know,short story collections,
fiction, uh, fiction dealingwith, like, the intricacies and
ordinariness of humans.
So everything has happened inmy world, has happened to
(39:02):
everybody before.
You know what I mean Familytrauma.
You know trying to figure outwhere your spaces in this world.
You know why.
You know how we get comfortableand don't move so technically,
(39:25):
me, you, my friends, myneighbors are all in my stories,
right?
Because like it's nothing.
I remember I used to be like oh, this idea is so cliche, oh,
this is so cliche, oh, that isso cliche, oh, oh, oh oh.
But it was the bottom line islife is cliche, right cliche.
(39:48):
And so that was like, okay,well, that narrative doesn't
doesn't apply to me because thethe life in the world that I
write about is cliche.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Yeah, we don't know anybody in the bad writer
friends thing, so we don'treally know enough to judge who
was the bad writer friend.
But it was just an interestingstory.
It was an intriguing story.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
You are writing.
Somehow, you know, especiallyif you grow up around a lot of
people, a big family, you havefriends like you are getting
some sort of inspiration fromsomething that happened to them
at some point.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Yeah, take Taylor Swift, all her songs about
breakups and stuff like that.
I'd be flattered if I was theguy in that, because if my
breakup turned into a bop I'd beflattered.
I'd be like, oh cool, I'm in asong.
I mean unless she was sayingreally horrible things about me.
Speaker 4 (40:49):
I was going to say what if you were like why are
you doing one?
Speaker 3 (40:53):
This is the thing, and.
I had said this before KatWilliams, but Kat Williams said
it.
You know I had said this beforeKat Williams, but Kat Williams
said it.
You know much more eloquently,but eloquently.
But this is whatever you, whenyou become a part of my story, I
get to tell it.
So if you don't want to be thevillain in my story, don't do
(41:14):
dumb stuff, Like.
Don't be the villain, Just like.
Vice versa, Like once I'minvolved in your life, you know
I am a character in your life.
I am now a character and jaymarie's and jd's life, and that
you know.
If I am the villain, then that'son me, but I can't dictate to
(41:35):
you what the right and what notthe right about your, your life
and your story and thecharacters in it.
So try to be a good character.
It's just like in law theyalways say you know, when typing
emails, especially anything inwriting, just remember that it
could be an exhibit.
So you know, watch what youwrite, because it could be an
(41:57):
exhibit.
And the same thing with dealingwith people Like you could be a
character in writing.
You are definitely in therewith character and their
proverbial story, but you couldbe a character in writing.
So just be careful how youinteract and how you treat each
other.
Speaker 4 (42:14):
Yeah, I can admit.
There are people in my past whotreated me terribly, who are
villains in my story.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
Great part of being a writer.
You can kill your villainsfictionally and nobody's hurt,
but you get your frustration out, Bring them back from the death
and kill them again if you wantto.
Speaker 3 (42:31):
And if you don't like the conversation if you know, I
like to have hard conversations.
If they're like, well, you'retalking to me, you'd be like why
would you think that?
Do you think I was talkingabout you?
Like, do you think that's aboutyou?
Or you know, do, depending onwhat kind of person they are,
I'd be like Paula, dumb on dumb.
Everything's not about you.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
Now what I would do too, though, is in those
scenarios, I would fictionalizeenough of the character so that
there's not a direct like likewith that girl where she took
direct pieces of the letter.
That's a direct through line,so everybody directly can see
that that's where it came from.
So, to try to avoid a lawsuit,I mean, I would fictionalize.
I might take that person, butthen some of the elements would
(43:15):
be fantasy, or it might beelements of, like, three
different things, or, orindividuals or whatever, blended
to make this one character.
That way, nobody's pointing atme, but I mean other people
don't?
Ariana Grande directlyreferenced Pete Davidson, and
then he did a stand up comingback to it.
That was really funny.
(43:36):
I remember how she talked abouthow he was supposed to be
well-endowed, and in hisstand-up routine he basically
said she was an evil genius.
He said she's tiny.
Everything looks big tosomebody that small, and then he
said so now she gave me alifetime L, because any woman I
sleep with it will bedisappointed.
Speaker 4 (43:53):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (43:54):
Like hey, you know, I was like hey, put it out there.
Speaker 4 (44:00):
So the moral is don't write creative nonfiction when
you need it to be high fantasy.
Speaker 3 (44:10):
Exactly and we joke about it.
But realistically, this issomething that writers think
about, because even when we'rewriting, we are pulling from our
family dynamics, we are pullingfrom our own experiences.
We are pulling from our ownexperiences.
We are pulling from the peoplewho surround us.
We are concerned about whatthey will think and how they
will see it or if we're talkingabout them.
(44:32):
But I know several authors havesaid you know, we spend a lot
of time worrying about that anda lot of time they don't even
think it's them.
That's true.
They be like well, I neverfigured out.
I've never.
I forgot the author who said it.
But she went.
She had said that.
You know that same person cameto her and was like that person
(44:52):
is terrible, who is it?
It's like you know.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
It's like you know.
That's why I went with a penname, Because I wanted to be
able to write freely withoutthinking about my family's
judgment or what they will thinkabout these books or the
characters or whatever.
But that didn't work becauseFacebook outed me.
Facebook people you may knowshowed me to my grandpa and my
grandpa was excited, so he goesinto the family group and shares
it.
My granddaughter's a writer now.
Speaker 3 (45:24):
It's like you know and no one ever you know.
You know, I think back to thenwe still don't know who Zayn is,
but she kind of was at a timewhen she could get away with it.
(45:45):
She kind of came out now.
Now it might be a little easierto find her.
She started writing again, butI think we're so accustomed to
the erotica now that it wouldn'teven be a big deal.
But when she first startedwriting erotica and a Black
woman and about, you know, blacksexual experiences for women
(46:08):
and you know it was a whole bigthing.
But you can't hide.
Now it's just like this y'allYep yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
So when you write, how often do you write?
Are you a daily writer?
Are you a revised or right wheninspiration strikes type of a
writer I try to do a, a routine,um.
Speaker 3 (46:36):
Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
So, you know, I um haven'tquite figured it out, but I make
sure that I do something daily,um, whether it's revising,
whether it's just, you know, um,writing, you know, uh,
(46:56):
outlining an idea, um, but I I'mnot all over the place.
But I don't have a specificroutine because if I say, oh, I
want to write two pages a day,when I sit to write, when I can,
because I have to find out thattime I blink.
It's like I understand peoplewho don't test well, who when
they get in front of the paper,they can't remember anything.
(47:19):
I'm only like that when itcomes to like it's time to write
, so I, instead of standing atspace and trying to force it,
I'll do something writingrelated that moves it along.
So I get something in daily.
But I, you know, if we'retalking about sitting down
actually typing out something, Iknow it varies upon.
(47:41):
You know how my brain functionsthat day.
Speaker 4 (47:45):
I'm similar.
I can't say that I do writinglike typing at the computer
daily, because a lot of what Ido is like pen and paper, like
pen and paper.
So for me, if I'm likesomething I'm sitting on the
couch and like TV's on in thebackground and I'm just jotting
(48:07):
down ideas or yeah, or like ascene has come to mind and I'm
writing that down just like innotes so I can type it up later,
that counts as writing for me.
Any type of any type of thingthat's moving it forward, even
if it's just the sitting andimagining and like taking notes
off of that, for me I'm likeokay, that's it.
(48:29):
Check on the day, becausesometimes I can't just sit at
the computer every day and justlike type on the same, like I go
blank or I'm just like I'm notfeeling it right now, even
though that's the couple hoursthat I have blocked off.
I've gotten to the point and Idon't know if I should suggest
this.
But like sitting down to watchsomething, I count as research.
(48:52):
So you know, sometimes I havethose days where you know I'm a
screenwriter, so watching thingssometimes, or reading a script
or something, that's still, Icount that as a writing day time
.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
I'm trying to do something productive every day,
whether it's like editing anepisode or reaching out for
somebody trying to schedule aninterview, or writing.
I try to write every day orrevise every day.
When I have those moments whereI'm blocked and I can't think
of shit to write, I try to goback to revising what I've
already written, or I try to doit every day.
(49:29):
Sometimes life intervenes, likeI was telling you guys.
Yesterday I took my daughter toa hockey game and I visited my
parents and before I knew it,the day had flashed by and no
writing got done.
Hopefully today I'm more ontask, but I try to do it every
day.
I don't always because lifelife's, but sometimes I, you
know, I try.
Speaker 4 (49:51):
Yeah, you still got to live life.
This is true.
That's the main event.
Speaker 3 (49:57):
Until the day when you can actually do writing full
time, that's just the way.
That is when you can literallyschedule your whole entire day
around writing.
You're going to have to accountfor the spaces that come, the
time that's set out.
You think that okay, I got thistime, but again you don't know
(50:20):
where you are going to bementally and just physically.
You could be mentally exhaustedby the time that seven o'clock
space comes around when youwrite and you need to decompress
and so now that's eating intoyour time.
But I also I always looked atreading as part of my writing
(50:40):
process too.
But like watching showswatching my shows that I enjoy I
also look at that as part ofthe writing process that I enjoy
.
I also look at that as part ofthe writing process, you know,
because ideas are generated, youknow, inspirations are taken or
just it just sort of kind ofputs me in an imaginative spirit
(51:04):
, right, you know just kind ofliving in that world and what's
going on with them, and you know, and getting deeply involved is
very stimulating for me.
Have you guys watched Paradise?
It's new, it's on Hulu.
Speaker 4 (51:19):
I haven't seen that one yet If you do check it out.
Speaker 3 (51:22):
The premise of it is very interesting.
I'm not going to get a showaway, but it's.
I can tell you this part issort of I'm not going to give it
away but watch it and for me,just that whole concept of what
Paradise is and how it's.
You know, the story is kind ofoutlining how it came to be, but
(51:45):
just the concept of whatParadise is is astounding for me
and like sent me on this whole,like, hmm, definitely some
great ideas out of it what'syour go to?
Speaker 2 (52:01):
writing fuel like snacks when you have a long
writing session.
What's next for you?
Speaker 4 (52:11):
for me, it depends on the time of day.
If I'm doing it, like usuallyon the weekend, I do my writing
in the morning, so I usuallyhave a cup of tea.
Um, and I usually eat breakfastafterwards, so I usually have a
cup of tea.
If it's an evening session, um,I usually just have water and
(52:34):
something crunchy.
I like to when I'm sittingstaring at the wall crunching on
something, I don't know why,like carrots or pretzels or
something.
It's weird, but it helps withmaking presents.
Speaker 3 (52:49):
Nothing, because I tend to do it afterwards.
So if I do it in the morning, Iget up, I have my morning
ritual, a prayer and um, somemeditation setting my intentions
, and then I'll have my coffeeand then I write, um and if, and
so I've, I'm sorry, I mybreakfast, which was with my
(53:12):
coffee, and then I write.
And if I write in the evening,still I eat first, because
that's just like the time, solike I don't, I usually don't
have anything with it or waitingbecause I've just I've eaten,
and if I can get in, when I'm inthat space, like even if I
(53:33):
don't eat, I'm not even hungryit'll be hours later, like once
I'm in that zone and I start wejust, we just rock, we just
rocking out until I'm literallylike so exhausted I can't open
my eyes anymore or move myfingers.
I've caught myself, you know,and I thought this kind of just
happened, you know, when you'rein school and you kind of waited
(53:53):
around and you got to get thispaper done, like you don't have
any more options and I couldlike be exhausted and still,
like you know, type through.
But I found that like when justthat's just my space, when I get
, when I'm in, and I'm in, Idon't want to stop.
I have to literally beexhausted and I could go.
And I'm in, I don't want tostop.
I have to literally beexhausted and I could go.
(54:15):
I used to actually think thatmy best time was the morning,
but really I am literally.
My best space is 11 to 5.
I can literally write from 11to 5.
And if I didn't have to get upin the morning, that would be
how I live.
Speaker 2 (54:32):
I would say my go-to writing snacks are like oatmeal,
cream pies.
Sometimes it's breakfast,because if I'm writing in the
morning before work then I'llhave like my little Jimmy Dean
egg white scramble and I'llmicrowave that and eat that.
I like frappes.
I have a chai frappe sometimesor the little Starbucks iced
(54:54):
coffees you buy.
Those are my go-to writingsnacks.
If you could have any authorover for dinner, living or dead,
who would it be and why?
Speaker 3 (55:11):
Tony, they tied Tony and Zora Tony.
Well, I got.
They tied Tony and Zora Zorabecause that story is really
interesting.
Right, you know, zora wasactually an anthropologist who
was sort of sent because, youknow the folks, the white folks
didn't want to go in rural.
(55:32):
You know the folks, the whitefolks didn't want to go in rural
, you know Florida, but theywanted to know how the Blacks
were back there living and shekind of went back there with
them and you know, and toldtheir story and her life as a
writer, you know, is just herlife period as a Black woman
(55:56):
during that time is extremelyinteresting.
And, toni, because Toni Morrisonis just like her, you know she
was for me, I find her booksentertaining, but also she was
(56:16):
just so profound, you know, um,and she just would be somebody
who would you, you could justher insights into the world, you
know, her insights into life,her, um, her insights into like
one.
What would I like to, what Ialso always liked about Tony is
(56:38):
that, you know she made it clearlike her story wasn't like the,
the typical, um, you know I was, you know, poor, black and
hungry story, um, so Idefinitely would love to talk to
her about growing up in acommunity where there were black
lawyers and black doctors andblack everything.
(57:00):
You know teachers, and that youknow this, this black community
, that that was integrated inclass.
Speaker 4 (57:12):
So, tony and Zora- Not to steal, but Tony has
always been mine One, becauseher house looked amazing and I'd
want to sit on the porch withher by the I don't know if it
was like the river or somethingit's always like the kind of
house that I wanted.
(57:32):
So, like I want to go to herhouse and like have a meal.
I have so many questions forher.
Her books were books that Iread but had a really hard time
with, just in terms of like thelanguage and that sort of thing.
And I like I just havequestions about like writing
writing in that way Because,again, I had a hard time with it
(57:55):
.
Her books I always needed adictionary to read and I'm just
like, why, why are we usingthese words?
And, just like her, I want totalk to her about her experience
in academia.
Just so many different things.
So, like she's someone that'sin particular, I just have a lot
(58:16):
of I would really want to havea long conversation with just
for so many different reasons.
Speaker 3 (58:23):
You can't rush through.
A Toni Morrison novel, likenovels, you know you kind of get
this space where you know youkind of, you know they're
leisurely, right, you can read,you just read for entertainment,
they're easy.
But like you can't rush through, if you you can't read her in
the night, you know you can't ohbook club is due tomorrow, let
(58:44):
me hurry up and read it.
It's a wrap and that's what mybook club used to get mad about,
because sometimes you have lifehabits and you're like I can
read this in the night and it'slike you're going to get through
the first chapter in the nightwith her.
Speaker 4 (58:56):
Yeah, and I feel like I love the way her mind worked
and I wanted to know how itworked, and so I don't want to
have dinner with her and talkabout it, yeah, and she left you
asking questions.
Speaker 3 (59:12):
You always had questions.
I haven't seen a writer yetthat throughout the book that
she literally makes you stop andgot to think about what she
just said Exactly.
Sometimes it's like, oh, let melook up the word, but sometimes
it's just so profound you gotto contemplate what you just
(59:32):
read.
Speaker 2 (59:35):
How about you?
Fun fact, my vampire book thatI'm working on, the main
character's last name isMorrison because of her, and her
first name is Zora, for Zora oh, that's fun one, but, um, the
person I picked would be octaviabutler, because that was a very
(59:57):
like.
Kindred to me was a veryimpactful book.
I write sci-fi and fantasy but,like prior to that, I hadn't
really experienced that from ourperspective.
So it just opened my eyes forme that we can write fantasy,
that we can build worlds andstuff like that, because a lot
of times when you're a kid andyou're Black, the Black books
(01:00:19):
that you're given are like thepain narratives and the
oppression narratives.
So for me that was like, wow,you know, we can build worlds,
we can time travel, we can doall this fun stuff.
And that really impacted me asa young reader and even today as
a writer.
And I have a lot of questionsfor her about like Kindred and
like what would Dana think aboutthe world we're living in now
(01:00:41):
and the Trump administration ifshe had traveled to this time
instead of traveling back to thedays of slavery?
And then also like her bookParable of the Sower a lot of
people think it predicted, likethe LA fires, and they think
that she's done some predicting,and I would love to see what
she thinks about today and thepolicies and some of the civil
rights that we fought for beingrepealed today.
(01:01:02):
I would love to see what herwriting would say to this time
we're in right now.
Yeah, I'm wearing right now.
Yeah, so all right.
One final thing Any closingwords you want to leave anybody
with Any inspiration advice?
Speaker 4 (01:01:27):
I don't know if I'm in a place to give somebody
advice.
Speaker 3 (01:01:30):
I had to keep it simple Keep writing, keep
writing, keep writing.
Speaker 4 (01:01:35):
Well, for me personally, you have way more to
offer than you think.
You do Love that.
Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
Love that, love that.
So I hope you've enjoyedmeeting my friends and hearing
us babble about writing.
We enjoyed sharing our writer'sjourney with you and we hope
you'll continue on.
And you know, message us onsocial media, tell us about your
writer's journey and whereyou're at.
Keep writing.
Speaker 5 (01:02:10):
That wraps up today's Craft Chat Chronicles with jd
mayor.
Thanks for joining us.
If you liked the episode,please comment, subscribe and
share for show notes writingworkshops.
Welcome to Craft Chat Chronicles, the go-to podcast
for tips on craftingbest-selling fiction.
Here at Craft Chat Chronicles,we bring you expert interviews,
insights and tips on writing,publishing and marketing.
Join the conversation andembark on a new chapter in your
writing journey.
(00:26):
For workshops, show notes andmore information, visit
jdmayalcom.
That's jdmayalcom.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
This episode of CrowdChat Chronicles.
We are about to go on awriter's journey.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
Enjoy, hey everybody, welcome to the first episode of
A Writer's Journey.
I'm one of your co-hosts, jayMarie, with my other co-hosts,
jd, mayol and Mo, and what we'llbe talking about is everything
about writing, from craft,insecurities, publishing, more
(01:03):
and everything in between.
In this very first episode,we're going to talk more and
everything in between.
In this very first episode,we're going to talk about
ourselves and just get into howwe became writers and our
journeys.
So, jd, do you want to kick usoff?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
I'm JD.
I am a freelance writer.
I've written for publicationslike Ms Magazine, HuffPost,
Writer's Digest and some others.
I'm a soon-to-be traditionallypublished author.
My novel Heart Scam Bit will beout in 2026.
I co-chair Drexel's MFA AlumniAssociation.
(01:40):
I've been a sensitivity readerfor Macmillan, I've been a judge
in the Wrriters Digest annualwriting competition and I'm a
lover of craft.
So, Jaymarie, tell us a littlebit about yourself.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
I have um, so I've been interested in, I would say,
reading um.
When I was.
I didn't really get intowriting until I was older, but
right now I have an MFA increative writing, one in
nonfiction based in memoir, andthe other one is for
screenwriting.
So what about you, mo?
(02:18):
Tell us a little bit aboutyourself, hey.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
I'm Mo.
I've been writing all of mylife and always loved it.
I have an MA in English and Ihave an MFA in creative writing.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Let's go back to the beginning.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
What first got you into writing Was it a childhood
passion, or was there a bookthat inspired you, or was it
something that you decided topursue later in life?
So for me, I'm the only childand so I had used my imagination
, because that's all I had toplay with and I was a big reader
.
My mom and my grandma were verybig on education, so I had a
(02:57):
book room, I had a toy room andthat included lots of books and
I was really drawn to readingand I was drawn to writing Fast
forward.
I always knew I wanted to write.
That's very cliche, that's whatall writers say, but it's the
truth.
Writing is a calling, I think,and I think that's why everyone
has the same story, because it'sjust like oh, that's something
(03:17):
that would be fun to do.
Like, you are actually called,you can't get away from it.
You actually called, you can'tget away from it.
You know it's, no matter howlaborious and solitary it is,
there's a feeling of joy andpeace that you get from it.
So that led me to eventuallygetting an MA in English.
(03:38):
Then I was like no, I really,really want to write, and then
that led me to get my MFA increative writing from Drexel
University.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
For me.
I also started out as an avidreader.
As a kid Loved reading, lovedlike daydreaming was my thing.
I don't.
I didn't really think of myselfas being a writer.
I thought it was something likeother people did for me to
enjoy, until I got older.
Um, I was in college.
(04:12):
I took a creative writing classand I started thinking, oh, this
is something I might want toexplore.
Um, because I was havingexperiences at college that
weren't so great that I didn'thave.
I guess I didn't have the toolsto be able to explain, like,
what was going on.
And these days there are, thereare terms for microaggressions
(04:33):
and that sort of thing thatpeople use, but I didn't know
any of that at the time.
So it started as like a peopleexploration for me in terms of,
okay, this thing happened, andso I would write it down and
like, oh, you know, she movedthat way and said this, and it
became this people study.
(04:54):
That ended up becoming the waythat I do my character studies.
Um, because I wanted tounderstand, um, the underlying
things of what wasn't said, butbecause they didn't say
something, what did that mean?
That becomes the subtext ofstory, and so I started to learn
(05:16):
craft just on my own in termsof figuring out my own life, and
that's my first novella wasbased on that when I did my
first MFA program, my first MFAprogram of MFA in creative
nonfiction, and so I wrote thenovella for that, and then, as
time went on, I realized thatscreenwriting was actually one
(05:38):
of the perfect tools for me as awriter.
I prefer screenwriting as a wayof layering things and images
in a particular way that I lovewith that, and that's what led
me later on to then get an MFAfocused on screenwriting.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
That's slowly, slowly finding my way into becoming a
writer Love that I kind ofshared some similarities with Mo
in that I was raised an onlychild.
My brother is significantlyyounger than me I was in a dorm
when he was born and my sisteris a half-sister, so we weren't
(06:16):
raised in the same house youknow we lived with.
We shared the same father, wehad different mothers, so we
lived in separate houses.
So writing and reading were myform of entertainment growing up
.
I always loved reading.
I would devour a 300 page bookin a day.
I've been writing since I couldhold a pen, but, like before I
(06:36):
even started physically puttingit on paper, I would, in my
imagination, rewrite my favoritestories and make myself a
character.
Um, like I love the Outsiders.
Growing up I read it 32 times.
I memorized the first paragraph.
I won't bore you by reciting it, but you know I just that was
like I was deeply geeky andawkward and you know still am.
(06:59):
You know a little, you knowdifferent, and writing and
reading were like escapism to me.
So I just thoroughly enjoyed itand enjoy it still, and I guess
that's where it began for me.
Fun fact though, I was in aclass at Drexel and I was
talking to them about how theOutsiders was my favorite book
(07:20):
growing up and it was my mirrorbook.
I saw myself in thosecharacters because they were
treated like outsiders andtreated like they were different
.
And I was in a military areabut they had us like in the
middle of a very Jewishsurrounding area.
So it was like one littlestreet of army kids and then the
rest was like mostly wealthy,mostly Jewish, and I was treated
(07:40):
differently a lot of times inthat environment.
So I identify completely withthe outsiders because the way
the greasers were treated washow I was feeling I was being
treated and I mentioned it inclass once and the teacher was
like, isn't it interesting thatthe book you saw yourself in was
also a book that excluded you?
And then she pointed out thefact that there were no Black
characters and I was like, wow,I need therapy.
What's your favorite thingabout writing and what part of
(08:07):
the process excites you the most?
Speaker 4 (08:10):
jay murray I get really excited about the initial
stages, stages like the comingup with the ideas and the
characters and all of that.
I'm really great at that.
The rest of it can be a bit ofa headache sometimes, but, like,
I do love those initial stagesof like, oh, who are these
people?
Where are they, what are theydoing, what is this about?
Speaker 3 (08:31):
and like putting all that together, um, is the most
exciting part for me the mostexciting part for me is that's
the stage once I know who thecharacters are and their purpose
.
So for me it goes back to likemy first piece I'll never forget
.
We had to write a fable in thesecond or third grade.
(08:54):
We had to write a fable and Iwrote about this little girl
named Marie who wanted to be aqueen, but she didn't come from
royalty and so there was abeehive in the back of her home
and she thought that if she gotstung three times by the bee
that she would become a queen.
And so she went to irritatingand agitating the beehive and
(09:17):
got stung three times and theonly thing she got from it was a
sore arm.
And so the moral of the storywas to be happy with who you are
.
Like.
I felt like oh, once I got thatdown and once I knew what it
was, I remember like I was bustout.
I didn't go to my neighborhoodschool, I was bust out.
And so like I'm excited all theway home and I couldn't wait
(09:38):
and I got off the bus and I ranhome and I just started with my
story.
So I'm always excited when Iknow the, the premise of the
story and what it's where itshould be heading and, man, when
I can start writing it, that'swhen it comes to me.
That's my favorite part.
What grade was that again?
Speaker 4 (09:58):
about second or third .
Wow, that's very deep for likesecond and third grade.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
I love that I went to elementary school, second and
third and all of my friendsloved it.
Like my classmates used to say,they loved it and I was like,
yes, A plus.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
I like world building .
I mean, I guess you can tellthat, since I do a lot of
fantasy, I like creatingcharacters that make people
think and feel I love escapism.
Again, I'm back to that I likeescapism.
That's why I think I likecreating worlds, because I like
to try to speak to the things insociety, but not directly, you
(10:41):
know what I mean Like echo someof the things that are happening
, but in a way that's likefantasy and fun.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
It was really interesting.
I was at a group yesterday withwriters and you know we start.
You know, of course, what'sgoing on in the world now, you
know.
So we are three weeks as we'rerecording post-Trump election,
and so you know we were talkingabout.
You know just what do we do andhow do we fit in.
(11:14):
And it's interesting, there werethose you know who said, look,
I'm not a frontlinerevolutionary, I'm not a
frontline revolutionary, likeI'm not going to be out on the
front line, but this is what Ihave to offer.
And you know, I always say theact of buckling down in writing
(11:48):
is an act of revolution.
What we see now, that weactually have a part in very
historical things happening andthat we get to be recorders of
what's going on, and sometimesthat would be, for some that
would be through nonfiction, forsome that would be through
fantasy, for some that would bethrough contemporary fiction,
for some it would be throughfantasy, for some that would be
through contemporary fiction,for some it would be through
graphic novels, like there's alldifferent ways and spaces.
(12:09):
For some they would be bycreating, you know,
documentaries, right.
For some they could createcomedy and sapphires, you know
sitcoms.
So there's always a space inyou know addressing and
everybody's space is different.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Very true, very true.
What is the hardest part ofwriting for you?
We all have something thattrips us up or that that we
struggle with, whether it's likeplotting or revising or just
getting started.
What's that thing for you, jaymarie?
Speaker 4 (12:51):
how making it all fit together in a particular way.
It's something that I'm still,uh, something I'm particularly
working with craft right now.
It's something I'm working onright now in terms of, um, okay,
like, I have my characters andI have this plot, but first
couple drafts it's not sinking,um, and so, like, right now I'm
(13:14):
going back to was it what theycall it the third rail,
something you know about the, myprotagonist.
What is really propelling herthrough, right?
Um, because my initial thoughtsdon't quite, don't quite fit,
or I feel like, well, I thinkshe's pulling it in a different
(13:36):
direction, I'll put it that way.
And so now for me it's justlike, okay, what is it that
she's deciding, instead of metrying to fit what I thought
this initially was as to.
Okay, well, let's follow.
I need to follow this characterum, this character um has her
own needs and getting clearer onthat, to uh, make it all sync.
(14:01):
Hopefully that makes sense.
So so, right now, somethingthat I'm working on.
That's the harder part for meright now, because this is a
bigger.
It's more of like a fantasyepic that I'm not always writing
, that I'm excited about, buttaking all those like fun
(14:22):
elements and really connectingit to her deeper needs.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Love that.
How about for you, Mel?
What's the hardest part?
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Well, you know, j Marie, that makes a whole lot of
sense, especially because everycharacter is distinct, right,
so they have their own voice.
They sound different, even inyour mind.
They sound different, even inyour mind, like, um, they sound
different.
And we are a lot of times wethrow as writers, we throw
ourselves into these characterslike it's not.
(14:51):
So, it's not, like what would,what would I do?
Well, this character is a 75year old african-american woman.
Um, I don't know right, youknow we're not the same, but
it's just natural to be like Iwould do.
And so that part is separatingthe characters, giving them
(15:12):
their own unique voice and theirown story and their own space,
is definitely always difficult.
For me, anne Lamott talks aboutthe shitty first draft.
For me, anna Mack talks aboutthe shitty first draft.
And you know just, you knowfrom my professional background
where, you know, I'm used todocumenting very succinctly,
(15:32):
very, very tightly.
And so, although I know thatthe first draft is just that,
it's a draft, it is not themanuscript.
You know it will change severaltimes the manuscript, you know
it will change several times Istill spend too much time trying
to get a tight, shitty firstdraft.
And I say tight because in mymind I already know like, well,
(15:54):
it doesn't matter, let's justget this out, but I still want
it tight, I still want it asgood as possible, just to change
it around anyway.
So I tend to spend too muchtime, um, on my, on my first
dress, creating and, and they,they, they are tight, but it's a
(16:14):
waste of time, it doesn'tmatter yeah, I am.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
I think I'm torn between revising being the
hardest part for me, because Itend to revise till I'm sick of
it and just getting started,because sometimes when I'm
writing something I reallyreally like, it's super hard for
me to tear away for somethingelse that I have to do Like
(16:41):
there might be a deadline onsomething, so it's like I got to
get this done, something elsethat I have to do, like there
might be a deadline on something, so it's like I got to get this
done, but I'm really lovingthat, so it's so hard for me to
like tear my focus from what I'mreally really loving.
But the thing is, once I dothat and once I move to the
other thing, you know, and Iactually get started on it, the
passion comes and the love forit comes and I go back into the
stuff I enjoy, like the creatingworlds and all that fun stuff.
(17:03):
And I go back into the stuff Ienjoy, like the creating worlds
and all that fun stuff.
So once I get started, then I'mgoing to like it, but it's just
sometimes getting there becauseI don't want to tear myself
away from something else.
That's a challenge.
And revising because you startoff loving.
I love the creation process.
You start off loving it andthen, when it becomes like a job
, when you're going back to fixit over and over and over again,
you love it less.
And then, by like round 30 ofrevision, you're like if this
(17:28):
shit don't get off my desk, youlove it a lot less by the end.
But the goal is to try to makeit as close to perfect as
possible for the reader.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
But there's definitely a chore for me anyway
have you ever have you guyslike find it difficult, um,
especially in revision, becauseyou you've married something and
now you have to break up withit like, oh man, I love this
line, like this line is, so itwas major and it fits right, but
it's like it's on a.
(17:59):
It's on a cutting block, notfrom an editor, but, like you
realize well, as the storydeveloped, it's not fitting in
as cleanly as it did when youfirst did it.
However, you love it like.
I will try to fix this.
I will try to put it somewhere.
Like it takes me a long time tobe like you know what it's been
(18:19):
.
Nice, I love you, but we gotta.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
Yeah, it's hard I'll break up, especially having to
do that with whole scenes.
I'm just like I love this sceneso much.
Yeah, same thing trying to finda place for it, but it's just
like you know it doesn't workanymore.
You're wasting time.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Find a folder for it because it might work in the
next book.
It might not fit this book inthis scenario, but it might be
like, ooh, that line I lovewould be great here.
You know, that scene I had tocut from book one fits in book
two, perfect.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Well, you do.
I mean, I do say it, but it'slike, no, it was for this and
like you know, that has to bedone and you will.
You know you will do it.
But I'm talking about thatprocess of literally breaking it
, because it's a process likeyou literally going through like
the grief of losing it, likethe like, let's see if this
could work, let's go tocounseling, like, but it's your
(19:13):
creation, so yeah, it's reallyemotional to have to break up
with that scene or that line orthat thing that was like,
sometimes, what the story waseven built upon like, and then
all of a sudden it's like thisdoesn't fit anymore yeah, I know
(19:33):
I've talked about this before,but for me it was when we were
in MFA program and Sadiqa gaveme a brilliant change to my
first chapter.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
But then it would recall reworking the whole
beginning of the book you knowwhat I mean and it was brilliant
.
So at first I was like I don'twant to do that because I don't
want that much work.
But then the more I thoughtabout it, I was like, damn,
she's right.
But it was like you don't wantto cut what you already liked.
But then, ultimately, I had totake the scissors to it because
it made it better and stronger.
(20:05):
But yeah, I've definitely beenin that not wanting to do it,
but it needs to be done.
Phase yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
I found, um, especially with beginnings,
especially like after you get afirst draft done or a second
draft, the beginning is usuallysomething you have to end up
tweaking anyway by the time youget to the end and everything
happens or whatever, and it'sjust like, oh, you have to go
back almost always and tweaksome things and fix things
around to make it work.
(20:33):
So I find going back to thebeginning is something I always
end up having to do anyway.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
I like to go back to the beginning too, because I
like to go back to tweak someforeshadowing in like really
subtle stuff that you wouldn'tpick up on.
But in my mind I'm laughingbecause I know that this is very
much either an echo of the endor a hint about the end, and you
have no clue because you'rejust starting the story.
So you know, I like that.
Are you a plotter, a pantser orsomewhere in between?
(21:04):
Do you do detailed outlines ordo you just dive in and see
where the story takes?
Speaker 3 (21:09):
you depends on the day like I haven't narrowed that
down about me yet, becausesometimes it's just like I can,
I can, I, I can, I'm both, I'mboth.
Sometimes I start out plotting,sometimes I pants it and then
plot.
So it just really depends onhow the story comes to me, what
(21:33):
inspires the story, how I feelwhen I'm writing.
So I tend to, if I get an ideawhile I'm working on a piece,
I'll start plotting.
But I usually, when I sit down,I sit down based on some sort
of thought, some sort ofsentence, some sort of phrase,
(21:56):
and then I'll kind of get thatout.
And then I'll go back andfigure out kind of what that
story is and start kind of veryvaguely outlining, not very
extensive but very like, justvaguely outlining.
But if I am writing somethingand I get another separate idea
(22:19):
for it, that's when my outlinestend to be a little bit more
detailed and that's when I startplotting more.
But I think I usually start offpantsing.
Speaker 4 (22:34):
For me, I go back to my.
I mostly do screenwriting thesedays, so part of my training
it's mostly what you would callplotting, I guess.
So like I plot out my main plotpoints and then, before I even
sit down to start writing thescreens in like the screenplay
format, I have an outline of thescenes and I'm working off the
(22:57):
outline and it's within thescenes, the dialogue and the
action and all of that.
I don't know, I guess that'sI'm still plotting, but then
when I go to write the scene I'mcoming up with it as I go along
.
So I guess it's a mixture ofboth.
But I know the scene objective,because to me otherwise that's
(23:22):
just wasting time.
No, for anybody that uh does thepainting.
But yeah, I, when I sit down Ihave my outline.
So I, I know, for for the mostpart, like what the scene
objectives are, and then as I'mcreating, as I'm writing the
scenes, that's where I go backto, I guess, freedom, that
(23:47):
freedom of when it comes todialogue and movement, but
mostly, yeah, plotting.
I guess I'd be considered aplotter.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
When I first started writing, I was definitely a
pantser.
I just would sit down and justgo, but then the problem with
that would be the stories wouldramble, and I later learned that
people who pants do a lot morerevision to make it make sense.
Basically, and you know, nowI'm somewhere in the middle
because I have to have anoutline.
So I stay focused and I staymoving in a direction, but as
(24:21):
I'm outlining, sometimes thecharacter and the story will
lead me down different avenuesthan I originally started.
It's not going to be completelydifferent, like if I, for
example this is a wild examplethat I'm just going to throw out
there but like, let's say, Ihad planned on them being an
astronaut and landing on theplanet Venus.
They won't then become ascientist and be in a classroom
in Connecticut.
(24:42):
You know what I mean.
So it's not that drastic ofpantsing.
You know they might make it toMars instead or they might make
it to Venus, but somethinghorrible or something different
in the outcome comes.
But so it's not a hugedeviation from my original plot,
but there is some deviation andflexibility and sometimes I'll
like stop and amend my plotalong the way because of, like,
(25:06):
my ideas change like Ooh, whatif this or what if that?
You know what I mean and Imight like slightly amend it,
but it's usually not like awhole 360 turn yeah.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
I'll do that too, Like if the characters are going
in a particular way and I'mlike, oh, this idea makes much
more sense or this is way betterthan you know, I'll allow
myself to make those changes.
I don't necessarily am somarried to that.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
The original outline, yeah so, um, when you're
outlining and stuff, where areyou usually at?
Are you at home writer?
Are you out and about writer?
What's your routine look likeusually?
Speaker 4 (25:49):
I'm at home, I can't be around other people and like
noise and all this stuff.
Um, when I'm doing my likefocus, focus writing, when I'm
like what I call likedevelopment phase and just like
observing people in life, yeah,okay, yes, I'll go outside for
those things.
(26:09):
But if I'm working on somethingspecific, I have to be at home
in my office, quiet or music orsomething.
Yeah, I can't be around otherpeople.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
I, I'm very structured like that too.
I need a space that's kind ofset up, that is aesthetically
pleasing for me, a space that iscalming, quiet, certain, smells
good.
I need this whole kind ofcalming thing going on, and so
(26:51):
that's usually in my inside ofmy home.
Sometimes with revisions andthings like that, sometimes with
revisions and things like that,I can go sit in the park.
Coffee shops do not work for me.
I'm too nosy.
I am like I was out with my momlast week and we went to
(27:11):
breakfast and you know there's alittle tight end corner and it
was.
It was a father and son havinga conversation about you know, I
guess kind of ironing out somethings, and so I'm talking to my
mom, but then all of a sudden,like this whole, when the father
says, you know, I would like totalk to you, you know, if
(27:31):
you're uncomfortable, it's coolI perked up like, oh, this is
about to be good, right, and solike I'm so nosy Not only that,
there was something that hementioned about.
You know, he was theAfrican-American young man here
he was 30, because I ended upminding people's business and
they let me mind their businessand he said something about you
(27:54):
know they're talking aboutsomething that was going on in
high school and how you know he,you know, wasn't doing really
well in high school, but he wasable to get to college and dah,
dah, dah, dah.
So at some point I kind of wasinterested in that story and
it's like you know, I hear yousay that.
You know you said that.
The first thing I say it's likeyou know, I'm sorry I'm going
to address the elephant in theroom.
I'm in your business and then Iwas proceeded to have a
(28:18):
conversation on and I explainedto him that I was a new teacher
and then I worked in an urbanschool and you know, I hear you
say that your grades weren'tgood but that you ended up in
college.
You know how did you do?
You know what was the strugglesfor you?
So that's why I can't, because,even if it was just like me
writing down a dialogue at somepoint, I want to involved, I'm
(28:39):
involved, I'm thinking I startedto have questions in my mind
about other people's business.
So I need to like, know, like,stay out the way.
Um, so the coffee shop thingdoesn't work for me, but like,
and even during revisionsthere's still too much, you know
sensory things going on for meto be able to focus.
(28:59):
But I can go.
I got my MA from Arcadia and Idon't live too far so I get to
go and sit under the tree there.
I do that a lot and do myrevisions.
That works fine, but it has tobe quiet and aesthetically
pleasing be quiet andaesthetically pleasing.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Yeah, I am.
The good part of my add is that, um, chaos around me doesn't oh
, doesn't usually distract mebecause my mind bounces
everywhere anyway.
So, like I can be at home,writing with the tv on can't be
a great show if it's a greatshow to distract me and I watch
it.
So I have a playlist of showsthat I don't find that
interesting or distracting, butI'm aware of them.
You know what I mean.
But they're not good enough tomake me look away from what I'm
doing.
(29:48):
I can write.
I've written in McDonald's,I've written in Starbucks.
I wrote in the library all thetime.
That's part of what led me towork in there, because I just
would be there writing for hours.
I got to know them all.
Then I was like, oh, they'rehiring, well, I might as well
get paid to sit here, sit hereanyway.
So I can pretty much writeanywhere I am, I can.
(30:17):
I'm only distracted, like I said, if it's something really
interesting, like if me and you,mo, would have been in that
same restaurant hearing the sameconversation, I would have been
able to write through that.
Now, if it would have been acouple breaking up or going
through some marital issues.
I might have been like, lookedaway from the keyboard and got
distracted then.
But that little conversation,you know, wouldn't have piqued
my interest as much, so I don'tknow you know wouldn't have
(30:39):
piqued my interest as much, so Idon't know I guess every now
and then I would have beensitting there taking jotting
down notes of what they said andlike what their situation was,
as like story ideas or somethinglike that.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
I was sitting there eating, I'm like, and then he
was talking about this, and thenthe father was like, well, if I
came to every track meet in inhigh school, why wouldn't I come
in college?
And then the son was like, well, I sent you the the roster.
He was like, well, I never gotit and and and like things like
that.
And I'm thinking like, wow,like how much miscommunication
(31:14):
plays a great part in thingslike that's an easy thing.
But then what happens when egogets involved, like I do think,
on those other, what happenswhen ego gets involved?
And this could have been clearedup with, like yo, son, I, you
know what's going on with youruh, you know you're not going to
tell me, you know when, whenyour track meets are.
And he was like, oh, I sent itto you.
Like, oh, I never got it, likeyou know, but they're having
(31:37):
this conversation.
He's done graduated and he's aproductive citizen in the world.
But it was great that they wereable to have that conversation
and reconcile.
But yeah, like I do take noteson stuff and you know it will
show up somewhere, but I can'tListen.
I be involved.
Like I had questions, like canI ask you a question?
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Oh, that made me think about a story that was
floating around a couple ofyears ago, the bad writer friend
story.
I'll refresh people who mightbe listening.
And then there was a group ofwriters who had a friend group,
basically, and one of themdonated a kidney to someone and
basically documented the wholeexperience of them.
Donated a kidney to someone andbasically documented the whole
(32:22):
experience of her donating thiskidney and she wrote a letter to
the person who received thekidney, to the, you know, I mean
to the family of the personthat received the kidney, and
stuff like that, if I'mremembering correctly.
So it was like awell-documented thing.
And then one of the people inher group was inspired by that
and wrote a story about it.
But in the story this woman waslike narcissistic and
(32:45):
self-serving and basically shewas speaking to that person on,
you know, basically giving thekidney and then documenting for
your friends the wholestep-by-step of your kidney
giving process and stuff likethat, and the story became like
a word winning and was doingreally great.
(33:06):
And then the girl who was theone who actually gave the kidney
was offended and ticked and wasbasically feeling like she sold
my life and um, so she startedcalling all these award things
and, um, the woman who wrote thestory was a woman of color and
the other woman wasn't, if Iremember correctly.
So she was calling all thesedifferent award ceremony,
basically complaining, and itended up in a lawsuit that the
(33:42):
girl had posted and she changedit in later drafts but that
ended up coming to bite her inthe butt.
You know, as far as inspiration, you know what I mean versus
documentation, and so it was awhole big thing in the writer
communities of bad writer friendand this, that and the third.
So when you were talking about,oh, that would be inspiration,
it made me me wonder what wouldbe the line for you, like if you
were the kidney-giving personin spring.
(34:03):
What would be the line for youin that scenario?
Where does inspiration?
Speaker 3 (34:08):
Honestly, I honestly don't remember the details.
Some of them sound new to mewhat you're saying.
I remember the conversationaround it and I would definitely
have to go back.
We should definitely come backaround to this, because that
would be really good.
What I remember about it is theconversation was who has the
(34:29):
right to tell a story?
I remember that being the bigconversation around it.
It's in the Times, so I havethat.
I can go back and read it.
The interesting thing is so Idon't know, I don't know, mr A
and MrB, right, I just overhearda conversation and that's.
(34:51):
Writers get inspiration andstories from that all the time.
Um, I wanted to write about anexperience that one of my
friends had.
I would check in with them.
I would check in with them.
I'd be like, listen, I want to.
This would be a great fictionalstory and based around this,
(35:12):
the events of what happened, andI want to write this story.
I want to write a story aboutit, like, how would you feel
about that?
Especially something like youknow something as as personal as
you know donating the kidney orgetting the kidney transplant.
I would let them see the storyfirst and have input.
(35:32):
I would include them in it.
I would ask them first how theywould feel, because the one
thing about it is, I would askthem first how they would feel.
Because the one thing about itis, you know, it's just like I
jokingly one time said that Iwas going to write like a story
about the ex of mine and I likejust say his name was was I'm
(35:53):
just making up a name, let'sjust say his name was Eric.
I was like, well, I just sayDerek, right, jokingly, but this
is the thing I can say Derekall day long.
But if Eric reads the story andhe knows this is what happened
to Rekha, he's going to know I'mtalking about him, right.
So even with certain things,like in there it was like, oh,
(36:14):
she would have known, or sheshould have known, that her
friends were going to know, thatthat's her story, that's her
friend's story, um, so I don'tthink that there's anything
wrong with drawing inspirationfrom a friend, right, but I
think you should check in, Ithink you should how they would
feel about it.
And even if they was like I'mnot comfortable.
(36:36):
But you can always brainstormlike, but this is a really,
really great Like, how can weget this story out, like you
know, in a different kind of way, like you know and they can
help you even come up withsomething else that's still
based on, as they say in movies,based on a true story, but not
necessarily the true story.
Speaker 4 (36:56):
Exactly, I agree going about it that way, but in
this situation it doesn't tellme they weren't actually friends
, so it was like more of apassive, huge,
passive-aggressive way to dealwith this person really.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
Okay, I can read this again.
I remember reading it becauseit was a big thing, but I don't.
I'm going to read it today.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
Alexa Dunn has a whole video breakdown of it, and
one of the things that wasinteresting too is like when it
ended up being a whole courtthing or whatever is that?
Like the group messages weresubpoenaed and ended up later
being revealed and her friendsreally weren't her friends.
All of her friends were likeco-signing on this and bashing
her in this scenario and a lotof them were just like if I
(37:47):
remember correctly, a lot ofthem were just like wow, this is
really disgusting that you knowthe way you're like
step-by-step documenting this orwhatever.
You know what I mean.
Like, if I remember correctly,it was a lot of shady so-called
friends, an interesting scenario.
But I think y'all are rightchecking with the person.
I've never had a situation wheresomething a friend has done has
(38:09):
been something, so, you know,intriguing, where I'd be like,
oh, I should write a story aboutthat, especially because I
write teen like fantasy andstuff like that.
So, like none of y'all havedone, like you know, burned down
houses or anything crazy Icould use for climax.
You know I have had um, an ex,who pissed me off and hurt me to
the point where I made him avillain in the book.
(38:30):
None of the rest of the storywas like him, but I definitely
made him the villain in thestory and he knew I mean he sure
had told him that and he wasactually surprisingly cool with
it.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
So I, I think so.
I write contemporary, you know,short story collections,
fiction, uh, fiction dealingwith, like, the intricacies and
ordinariness of humans.
So everything has happened inmy world, has happened to
(39:02):
everybody before.
You know what I mean Familytrauma.
You know trying to figure outwhere your spaces in this world.
You know why.
You know how we get comfortableand don't move so technically,
(39:25):
me, you, my friends, myneighbors are all in my stories,
right?
Because like it's nothing.
I remember I used to be like oh, this idea is so cliche, oh,
this is so cliche, oh, that isso cliche, oh, oh, oh oh.
But it was the bottom line islife is cliche, right cliche.
(39:48):
And so that was like, okay,well, that narrative doesn't
doesn't apply to me because thethe life in the world that I
write about is cliche.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Yeah, we don't know anybody in the bad writer
friends thing, so we don'treally know enough to judge who
was the bad writer friend.
But it was just an interestingstory.
It was an intriguing story.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
You are writing.
Somehow, you know, especiallyif you grow up around a lot of
people, a big family, you havefriends like you are getting
some sort of inspiration fromsomething that happened to them
at some point.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Yeah, take Taylor Swift, all her songs about
breakups and stuff like that.
I'd be flattered if I was theguy in that, because if my
breakup turned into a bop I'd beflattered.
I'd be like, oh cool, I'm in asong.
I mean unless she was sayingreally horrible things about me.
Speaker 4 (40:49):
I was going to say what if you were like why are
you doing one?
Speaker 3 (40:53):
This is the thing, and.
I had said this before KatWilliams, but Kat Williams said
it.
You know I had said this beforeKat Williams, but Kat Williams
said it.
You know much more eloquently,but eloquently.
But this is whatever you, whenyou become a part of my story, I
get to tell it.
So if you don't want to be thevillain in my story, don't do
(41:14):
dumb stuff, Like.
Don't be the villain, Just like.
Vice versa, Like once I'minvolved in your life, you know
I am a character in your life.
I am now a character and jaymarie's and jd's life, and that
you know.
If I am the villain, then that'son me, but I can't dictate to
(41:35):
you what the right and what notthe right about your, your life
and your story and thecharacters in it.
So try to be a good character.
It's just like in law theyalways say you know, when typing
emails, especially anything inwriting, just remember that it
could be an exhibit.
So you know, watch what youwrite, because it could be an
(41:57):
exhibit.
And the same thing with dealingwith people Like you could be a
character in writing.
You are definitely in therewith character and their
proverbial story, but you couldbe a character in writing.
So just be careful how youinteract and how you treat each
other.
Speaker 4 (42:14):
Yeah, I can admit.
There are people in my past whotreated me terribly, who are
villains in my story.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
Great part of being a writer.
You can kill your villainsfictionally and nobody's hurt,
but you get your frustration out, Bring them back from the death
and kill them again if you wantto.
Speaker 3 (42:31):
And if you don't like the conversation if you know, I
like to have hard conversations.
If they're like, well, you'retalking to me, you'd be like why
would you think that?
Do you think I was talkingabout you?
Like, do you think that's aboutyou?
Or you know, do, depending onwhat kind of person they are,
I'd be like Paula, dumb on dumb.
Everything's not about you.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
Now what I would do too, though, is in those
scenarios, I would fictionalizeenough of the character so that
there's not a direct like likewith that girl where she took
direct pieces of the letter.
That's a direct through line,so everybody directly can see
that that's where it came from.
So, to try to avoid a lawsuit,I mean, I would fictionalize.
I might take that person, butthen some of the elements would
(43:15):
be fantasy, or it might beelements of, like, three
different things, or, orindividuals or whatever, blended
to make this one character.
That way, nobody's pointing atme, but I mean other people
don't?
Ariana Grande directlyreferenced Pete Davidson, and
then he did a stand up comingback to it.
That was really funny.
(43:36):
I remember how she talked abouthow he was supposed to be
well-endowed, and in hisstand-up routine he basically
said she was an evil genius.
He said she's tiny.
Everything looks big tosomebody that small, and then he
said so now she gave me alifetime L, because any woman I
sleep with it will bedisappointed.
Speaker 4 (43:53):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (43:54):
Like hey, you know, I was like hey, put it out there.
Speaker 4 (44:00):
So the moral is don't write creative nonfiction when
you need it to be high fantasy.
Speaker 3 (44:10):
Exactly and we joke about it.
But realistically, this issomething that writers think
about, because even when we'rewriting, we are pulling from our
family dynamics, we are pullingfrom our own experiences.
We are pulling from our ownexperiences.
We are pulling from the peoplewho surround us.
We are concerned about whatthey will think and how they
will see it or if we're talkingabout them.
(44:32):
But I know several authors havesaid you know, we spend a lot
of time worrying about that anda lot of time they don't even
think it's them.
That's true.
They be like well, I neverfigured out.
I've never.
I forgot the author who said it.
But she went.
She had said that.
You know that same person cameto her and was like that person
(44:52):
is terrible, who is it?
It's like you know.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
It's like you know.
That's why I went with a penname, Because I wanted to be
able to write freely withoutthinking about my family's
judgment or what they will thinkabout these books or the
characters or whatever.
But that didn't work becauseFacebook outed me.
Facebook people you may knowshowed me to my grandpa and my
grandpa was excited, so he goesinto the family group and shares
it.
My granddaughter's a writer now.
Speaker 3 (45:24):
It's like you know and no one ever you know.
You know, I think back to thenwe still don't know who Zayn is,
but she kind of was at a timewhen she could get away with it.
(45:45):
She kind of came out now.
Now it might be a little easierto find her.
She started writing again, butI think we're so accustomed to
the erotica now that it wouldn'teven be a big deal.
But when she first startedwriting erotica and a Black
woman and about, you know, blacksexual experiences for women
(46:08):
and you know it was a whole bigthing.
But you can't hide.
Now it's just like this y'allYep yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
So when you write, how often do you write?
Are you a daily writer?
Are you a revised or right wheninspiration strikes type of a
writer I try to do a, a routine,um.
Speaker 3 (46:36):
Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
So, you know, I um haven'tquite figured it out, but I make
sure that I do something daily,um, whether it's revising,
whether it's just, you know, um,writing, you know, uh,
(46:56):
outlining an idea, um, but I I'mnot all over the place.
But I don't have a specificroutine because if I say, oh, I
want to write two pages a day,when I sit to write, when I can,
because I have to find out thattime I blink.
It's like I understand peoplewho don't test well, who when
they get in front of the paper,they can't remember anything.
(47:19):
I'm only like that when itcomes to like it's time to write
, so I, instead of standing atspace and trying to force it,
I'll do something writingrelated that moves it along.
So I get something in daily.
But I, you know, if we'retalking about sitting down
actually typing out something, Iknow it varies upon.
(47:41):
You know how my brain functionsthat day.
Speaker 4 (47:45):
I'm similar.
I can't say that I do writinglike typing at the computer
daily, because a lot of what Ido is like pen and paper, like
pen and paper.
So for me, if I'm likesomething I'm sitting on the
couch and like TV's on in thebackground and I'm just jotting
(48:07):
down ideas or yeah, or like ascene has come to mind and I'm
writing that down just like innotes so I can type it up later,
that counts as writing for me.
Any type of any type of thingthat's moving it forward, even
if it's just the sitting andimagining and like taking notes
off of that, for me I'm likeokay, that's it.
(48:29):
Check on the day, becausesometimes I can't just sit at
the computer every day and justlike type on the same, like I go
blank or I'm just like I'm notfeeling it right now, even
though that's the couple hoursthat I have blocked off.
I've gotten to the point and Idon't know if I should suggest
this.
But like sitting down to watchsomething, I count as research.
(48:52):
So you know, sometimes I havethose days where you know I'm a
screenwriter, so watching thingssometimes, or reading a script
or something, that's still, Icount that as a writing day time
.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
I'm trying to do something productive every day,
whether it's like editing anepisode or reaching out for
somebody trying to schedule aninterview, or writing.
I try to write every day orrevise every day.
When I have those moments whereI'm blocked and I can't think
of shit to write, I try to goback to revising what I've
already written, or I try to doit every day.
(49:29):
Sometimes life intervenes, likeI was telling you guys.
Yesterday I took my daughter toa hockey game and I visited my
parents and before I knew it,the day had flashed by and no
writing got done.
Hopefully today I'm more ontask, but I try to do it every
day.
I don't always because lifelife's, but sometimes I, you
know, I try.
Speaker 4 (49:51):
Yeah, you still got to live life.
This is true.
That's the main event.
Speaker 3 (49:57):
Until the day when you can actually do writing full
time, that's just the way.
That is when you can literallyschedule your whole entire day
around writing.
You're going to have to accountfor the spaces that come, the
time that's set out.
You think that okay, I got thistime, but again you don't know
(50:20):
where you are going to bementally and just physically.
You could be mentally exhaustedby the time that seven o'clock
space comes around when youwrite and you need to decompress
and so now that's eating intoyour time.
But I also I always looked atreading as part of my writing
(50:40):
process too.
But like watching showswatching my shows that I enjoy I
also look at that as part ofthe writing process that I enjoy
.
I also look at that as part ofthe writing process, you know,
because ideas are generated, youknow, inspirations are taken or
just it just sort of kind ofputs me in an imaginative spirit
(51:04):
, right, you know just kind ofliving in that world and what's
going on with them, and you know, and getting deeply involved is
very stimulating for me.
Have you guys watched Paradise?
It's new, it's on Hulu.
Speaker 4 (51:19):
I haven't seen that one yet If you do check it out.
Speaker 3 (51:22):
The premise of it is very interesting.
I'm not going to get a showaway, but it's.
I can tell you this part issort of I'm not going to give it
away but watch it and for me,just that whole concept of what
Paradise is and how it's.
You know, the story is kind ofoutlining how it came to be, but
(51:45):
just the concept of whatParadise is is astounding for me
and like sent me on this whole,like, hmm, definitely some
great ideas out of it what'syour go to?
Speaker 2 (52:01):
writing fuel like snacks when you have a long
writing session.
What's next for you?
Speaker 4 (52:11):
for me, it depends on the time of day.
If I'm doing it, like usuallyon the weekend, I do my writing
in the morning, so I usuallyhave a cup of tea.
Um, and I usually eat breakfastafterwards, so I usually have a
cup of tea.
If it's an evening session, um,I usually just have water and
(52:34):
something crunchy.
I like to when I'm sittingstaring at the wall crunching on
something, I don't know why,like carrots or pretzels or
something.
It's weird, but it helps withmaking presents.
Speaker 3 (52:49):
Nothing, because I tend to do it afterwards.
So if I do it in the morning, Iget up, I have my morning
ritual, a prayer and um, somemeditation setting my intentions
, and then I'll have my coffeeand then I write, um and if, and
so I've, I'm sorry, I mybreakfast, which was with my
(53:12):
coffee, and then I write.
And if I write in the evening,still I eat first, because
that's just like the time, solike I don't, I usually don't
have anything with it or waitingbecause I've just I've eaten,
and if I can get in, when I'm inthat space, like even if I
(53:33):
don't eat, I'm not even hungryit'll be hours later, like once
I'm in that zone and I start wejust, we just rock, we just
rocking out until I'm literallylike so exhausted I can't open
my eyes anymore or move myfingers.
I've caught myself, you know,and I thought this kind of just
happened, you know, when you'rein school and you kind of waited
(53:53):
around and you got to get thispaper done, like you don't have
any more options and I couldlike be exhausted and still,
like you know, type through.
But I found that like when justthat's just my space, when I get
, when I'm in, and I'm in, Idon't want to stop.
I have to literally beexhausted and I could go.
And I'm in, I don't want tostop.
I have to literally beexhausted and I could go.
(54:15):
I used to actually think thatmy best time was the morning,
but really I am literally.
My best space is 11 to 5.
I can literally write from 11to 5.
And if I didn't have to get upin the morning, that would be
how I live.
Speaker 2 (54:32):
I would say my go-to writing snacks are like oatmeal,
cream pies.
Sometimes it's breakfast,because if I'm writing in the
morning before work then I'llhave like my little Jimmy Dean
egg white scramble and I'llmicrowave that and eat that.
I like frappes.
I have a chai frappe sometimesor the little Starbucks iced
(54:54):
coffees you buy.
Those are my go-to writingsnacks.
If you could have any authorover for dinner, living or dead,
who would it be and why?
Speaker 3 (55:11):
Tony, they tied Tony and Zora Tony.
Well, I got.
They tied Tony and Zora Zorabecause that story is really
interesting.
Right, you know, zora wasactually an anthropologist who
was sort of sent because, youknow the folks, the white folks
didn't want to go in rural.
(55:32):
You know the folks, the whitefolks didn't want to go in rural
, you know Florida, but theywanted to know how the Blacks
were back there living and shekind of went back there with
them and you know, and toldtheir story and her life as a
writer, you know, is just herlife period as a Black woman
(55:56):
during that time is extremelyinteresting.
And, toni, because Toni Morrisonis just like her, you know she
was for me, I find her booksentertaining, but also she was
(56:16):
just so profound, you know, um,and she just would be somebody
who would you, you could justher insights into the world, you
know, her insights into life,her, um, her insights into like
one.
What would I like to, what Ialso always liked about Tony is
(56:38):
that, you know she made it clearlike her story wasn't like the,
the typical, um, you know I was, you know, poor, black and
hungry story, um, so Idefinitely would love to talk to
her about growing up in acommunity where there were black
lawyers and black doctors andblack everything.
(57:00):
You know teachers, and that youknow this, this black community
, that that was integrated inclass.
Speaker 4 (57:12):
So, tony and Zora- Not to steal, but Tony has
always been mine One, becauseher house looked amazing and I'd
want to sit on the porch withher by the I don't know if it
was like the river or somethingit's always like the kind of
house that I wanted.
(57:32):
So, like I want to go to herhouse and like have a meal.
I have so many questions forher.
Her books were books that Iread but had a really hard time
with, just in terms of like thelanguage and that sort of thing.
And I like I just havequestions about like writing
writing in that way Because,again, I had a hard time with it
(57:55):
.
Her books I always needed adictionary to read and I'm just
like, why, why are we usingthese words?
And, just like her, I want totalk to her about her experience
in academia.
Just so many different things.
So, like she's someone that'sin particular, I just have a lot
(58:16):
of I would really want to havea long conversation with just
for so many different reasons.
Speaker 3 (58:23):
You can't rush through.
A Toni Morrison novel, likenovels, you know you kind of get
this space where you know youkind of, you know they're
leisurely, right, you can read,you just read for entertainment,
they're easy.
But like you can't rush through, if you you can't read her in
the night, you know you can't ohbook club is due tomorrow, let
(58:44):
me hurry up and read it.
It's a wrap and that's what mybook club used to get mad about,
because sometimes you have lifehabits and you're like I can
read this in the night and it'slike you're going to get through
the first chapter in the nightwith her.
Speaker 4 (58:56):
Yeah, and I feel like I love the way her mind worked
and I wanted to know how itworked, and so I don't want to
have dinner with her and talkabout it, yeah, and she left you
asking questions.
Speaker 3 (59:12):
You always had questions.
I haven't seen a writer yetthat throughout the book that
she literally makes you stop andgot to think about what she
just said Exactly.
Sometimes it's like, oh, let melook up the word, but sometimes
it's just so profound you gotto contemplate what you just
(59:32):
read.
Speaker 2 (59:35):
How about you?
Fun fact, my vampire book thatI'm working on, the main
character's last name isMorrison because of her, and her
first name is Zora, for Zora oh, that's fun one, but, um, the
person I picked would be octaviabutler, because that was a very
(59:57):
like.
Kindred to me was a veryimpactful book.
I write sci-fi and fantasy but,like prior to that, I hadn't
really experienced that from ourperspective.
So it just opened my eyes forme that we can write fantasy,
that we can build worlds andstuff like that, because a lot
of times when you're a kid andyou're Black, the Black books
(01:00:19):
that you're given are like thepain narratives and the
oppression narratives.
So for me that was like, wow,you know, we can build worlds,
we can time travel, we can doall this fun stuff.
And that really impacted me asa young reader and even today as
a writer.
And I have a lot of questionsfor her about like Kindred and
like what would Dana think aboutthe world we're living in now
(01:00:41):
and the Trump administration ifshe had traveled to this time
instead of traveling back to thedays of slavery?
And then also like her bookParable of the Sower a lot of
people think it predicted, likethe LA fires, and they think
that she's done some predicting,and I would love to see what
she thinks about today and thepolicies and some of the civil
rights that we fought for beingrepealed today.
(01:01:02):
I would love to see what herwriting would say to this time
we're in right now.
Yeah, I'm wearing right now.
Yeah, so all right.
One final thing Any closingwords you want to leave anybody
with Any inspiration advice?
Speaker 4 (01:01:27):
I don't know if I'm in a place to give somebody
advice.
Speaker 3 (01:01:30):
I had to keep it simple Keep writing, keep
writing, keep writing.
Speaker 4 (01:01:35):
Well, for me personally, you have way more to
offer than you think.
You do Love that.
Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
Love that, love that.
So I hope you've enjoyedmeeting my friends and hearing
us babble about writing.
We enjoyed sharing our writer'sjourney with you and we hope
you'll continue on.
And you know, message us onsocial media, tell us about your
writer's journey and whereyou're at.
Keep writing.
Speaker 5 (01:02:10):
That wraps up today's Craft Chat Chronicles with jd
mayor.
Thanks for joining us.
If you liked the episode,please comment, subscribe and
share for show notes writingworkshops.
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