October 31, 2025 • 69 mins
Ryan Coogler's "Sinners" has captivated audiences with its fresh take on vampire mythology set against the racially charged backdrop of 1930s Mississippi. This Southern Gothic tale follows twin brothers Smoke and Stack (both masterfully portrayed by Michael B. Jordan) as they return home to open a juke joint, only to encounter supernatural forces that mirror the very real horrors of American racism.
What makes "Sinners" extraordinary is how it weaves multiple layers of meaning throughout its narrative. The film doesn't just deliver vampire thrills—it transforms the vampire mythos into a powerful metaphor for colonization, assimilation, and cultural appropriation. When the Irish vampire Remmick offers immortality to the Black community, his proposition mirrors historical patterns where marginalized groups face devil's bargains: survival at the cost of identity. This dynamic creates a thought-provoking exploration of what it means to survive in a hostile world.
The film's stunning visual language deserves special mention. From breathtaking blue skies over cotton fields to the unforgettable juke joint sequence with its transcendent musical performance, Coogler demonstrates his mastery of cinema as a visual medium. The diverse cast represents the often-overlooked multicultural reality of the American South, including a Chinese merchant family whose complex relationship with the Black community reflects nuanced historical realities.
Beyond its artistic achievements, "Sinners" has broken box office records as the highest-grossing non-IP film since before the pandemic, proving audiences hunger for original storytelling. In a landscape dominated by franchises and reboots, this film stands as powerful evidence that innovative narratives with meaningful social commentary can achieve both critical acclaim and commercial success.
Experience this groundbreaking film that's redefining what vampire stories can be while sparking important conversations about America's past and present. Whether you're a horror aficionado, a fan of historical drama, or simply someone who appreciates masterful filmmaking, "Sinners" offers a richly rewarding cinematic journey that will linger in your mind long after the credits roll.
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J.D. Myall is the co-chair of Drexel University’s MFA Alumni Association and a publishing and library professional. She is the creator and host of Craft Chat Chronicles, where she interviews authors, agents, and industry insiders about the art and business of writing.
Her work has appeared in Ms. Magazine, Writer’s Digest, and HuffPost. Her debut novel, Heart’s Gambit, releases with Wednesday Books/Macmillan in February 2026.
When she’s not conjuring magic, murder, and mayhem on the page, J.D. mentors emerging writers through workshops and alumni programs, fostering community among aspiring and published authors alike.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to Craft Chat Chronicles, the go-to podcast
for tips on craftingbest-selling fiction.
Here at Craft Chat Chronicles,we bring you expert interviews,
insights and tips on writing,publishing and marketing.
Join the conversation andembark on a new chapter in your
writing journey.
(00:25):
For workshops, show notes andmore information, visit
jdmayalcom.
That's jdmayalcom.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
On today's episode of Craft Chat Chronicles, we are
going to go on a writer'sjourney with good friends and
good writers.
Enjoy.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of A
Writer's Journey, and todaywe're going to be talking about
the new movie Sinners, which ispart of our Southern Gothic 2.0
discussion about vampires.
2.0 discussion about vampires.
And so the movie it's been itssecond week now, I think out,
and it's starring Michael BJordan, written and directed by
(01:12):
Ryan Coogler Always a great team, it's a great movie, and so
that'll be our discussion today.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
JD.
Vampires are your love?
All right, so so, sinners.
Takes place in 1930s,mississippi.
To give you an idea of the timeperiod, it's after rosewood and
tulsa, which were two massacreswhere a racist white mob like
burned killed these two towns.
And so and it was before,emmett till died for allegedly
(01:45):
whistling at a white woman.
So it was like a very raciallytense time in history.
And in this story, elijah,who's called Smoke, and Elias,
who's called Stack, are twinbrothers who come home to
Mississippi to open a juke joint.
What was your initial umthoughts after watching the
(02:06):
movie?
Speaker 3 (02:08):
I, I loved it so much .
I it's exactly the type ofmovie that I've been waiting for
.
Just something original.
Um, just like cool thingshappening in the movie, like the
I'll just call it the the jukejoint scene with the music that
was like one of the best.
(02:28):
We could talk about one of thebest cinema, what do you call it
?
Cinematography, whatever?
The best scenes I've ever seenin movies ever.
Um, I just love the creativityand the layers of meaning to
things and at the same time itwas funny.
I appreciate movies that haveall the different layers and it
(02:54):
means something and you have agood time.
So, yeah, I was emotionallyfulfilled as a moviegoer.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
It was like a full meal it was a great movie.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Exactly, it's like what you want to spend your
money when you go to the moviesand so oftentimes they're
lacking, and this one was not.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Love that and, like you said about the
cinematography, I love the blueskies.
Gorgeous blue skies over thecotton field.
It was beautiful.
The sunsets were gorgeous Inthe one scene that we're going
to talk about a little bit inthe club, when it was like the
roof, the roof, the roof is onfire.
You remember that shot.
It was just beautifullyexecuted and gorgeous and you
(03:43):
know there was a lot to lovevisually about it.
What was your take on thecharacters?
Speaker 3 (03:51):
um, I really liked one the diversity, I have to say
.
Um, I love movies that don'tpretend like it's just one group
of people who live in the world, like, especially, we're
talking about the MississippiDelta and I learned something I
didn't know there was like agroup of um, like a Chinese
(04:12):
community in the MississippiDelta.
Um, so like, after seeing thatI was like, oh, let me do a
little research.
And that's another thing I likeabout um, any type of cinema
and tv shows that makes me do alittle research and want to
learn a little more.
Especially it's Americanhistory and all that um Smoke
and Stack.
It's so funny.
Like I know they're bothMichael B Jordan, but like he
(04:34):
had these subtle things whereeven like, even outside of the
two different hats, I could tellwho was who, just by like their
demeanor and everything whichis this brilliant acting um
annie is my favorite, um theactress.
Anytime I see her in it andanything.
I feel like she's the actressthat like represents me, the
(04:55):
person.
Anytime I see her in anythingI'm like, yes, and I will not
try to pronounce her namebecause I'm going to butcher it
but love her um, and I like whatthey did.
Uh, what's Haley Stanfield'scharacter's name?
Um, mary, is it Mary?
Okay, I was gonna say Mary, butI was like that doesn't seem
right.
Um, with the, you know, havingblack heritage but she's passing
(05:21):
as white, um, and like stillbeing a part of the black
community.
I love those layers, um, and herrelationship with that right
yes um, and just all the like,the acting is great and just all
of the, the social commentaryand just the energy between them
(05:44):
, um, I think that the actorshad really great chemistry.
Um, and the one thing I keepforgetting, and what I also
loved about this movie thevampires, because I actually
originally wasn't going to seeit because I don't like horror,
like I don't go see any of thosethings for the most part, um,
(06:04):
but I appreciated that it wasalmost like the bee story.
You know, like they're therebut you have all this stuff
going on, all these rich layerswith smoke and stack and the
community and all of that.
Um, that I appreciated that,even though, like it's a vampire
movie, it wasn't like about thevampires in the full sense.
(06:27):
The Irish music was interesting, so, like go online and read
about that, because I was justlike, oh, okay, and there was
another like dance scene withvats, wait wait, you're getting
too far ahead, you're fine.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
So something I kept seeing online was that a lot of
people were not getting what yougot, which was mary's blackness
, because while she's whitepresenting and she's only one
eighth black, in that time theone drop rule was like a thing
and everybody kept being likewell, why was the white girl
there?
In her hometown she was black.
(07:10):
She had a black grandparent, soin her hometown, you know, she
was viewed as black.
That's why she had to leave tomarry the white guy and to start
her life.
And that's why stack kept beingrude to her at first, because
he's like it's dangerous for youto be.
You know well, he didn't sayit's dangerous for you to be.
You know well, he didn't sayit's dangerous.
But he later, you know, toldher like you know, it's not safe
for you to be here with me orwith us.
You know what I mean.
(07:30):
And it's much safer in the1930s Mississippi to be white
than to be black.
So I guess what he wanted herto do was you can pass for white
, so pass which is what peopledid back then.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
A lot of people did that yeah, if they could.
I mean you can't pass, if youcan't pass, but yeah, if they
could that's what they did,because their life was different
.
Oh the Mary being a part of thecommunity.
That also speaks to kind of howthe Black community is or what
I'm used to.
It's just like oh, you knowyour grandma was Black or
whatever.
Like you're part of thecommunity, like we come in all
(08:05):
different shades or whatever,but we know your people, so you
can come to the cookout.
You know, that's how it is.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
True when I try to compare Smoke and Annie and Mary
and Stack.
Yeah, really In this movie,because, like, initially I
(08:39):
didn't feel like Stack's lovefor Mary was as deep Because he
was like pushing her away,pushing her away.
But then we got the reasons asdeep because he was like pushing
her away, pushing her away, butthen we got the reasons as to
why he was pushing her away.
But then I also feel like wereally didn't get to see it
after that because, you know,she went out and became a
(09:03):
vampire.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
So you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
So we didn't really get to see what would have
happened once they'd had thatconfession, to know how deep
their love went, whereas I feltlike with smoke and annie, I
felt like their love and theirbond was like really, really
like deep and meaningful no, Iwas gonna say, but that's
representative of the times tooMary and Stack wouldn't have
(09:26):
been able to be together, right?
Speaker 3 (09:31):
So that's kind of showing it's like even though he
did confess his love to her,they would have never been able
to be together.
At that time.
I mean, like one, it wasillegal at that time.
I mean like one, it was illegal.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Well, technically, if they stayed in their hometown,
she would have been Black,because they knew her as Black,
so it would have been legal.
But it wouldn't have been safebecause people who didn't know
would see him with a white womanand then he could have got
Emmett Till or something.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
They would have assumed that she was a white
woman, but, yeah, so they neverwould have been able to have
that sort of deep anything.
Because of all of that, it justisn't safe.
So we can't even really show itand we're having this quiet
moment so that you know how Ifeel.
But you need, you have to goback to your world and I got to
(10:19):
stay in mind type of thing,whereas with smoke and annie
they're part of the samecommunity, even though he left a
while that, so they're able toexplore that deeper relationship
(12:04):
.
What did you think?
That interracial relationship,particularly with the white
(12:26):
woman?
Um, bringing the community orthe black man down, that's
initially what I saw.
Them, because she's the onethat you know gets turned first
and brings all of that into theplace, um, and kills him, um, so
that's what?
Uh, that was my initial goaltoo is like, oh, you know, with
(12:47):
with the white girls, there'sgoing to be doom.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
So a lot of people online were interpreting in that
same way too um, they weretalking about be careful, can
you invite to the picnic, andstuff like that.
And then some people were like,referring to it as like the
tragic mulatto um trope.
And then some people were um,comparing her to like the um
(13:12):
white savior trope, because youknow.
It's like oh, you guys have themoney problem, I can fix this,
you know.
So what if smoke said don't goout there and invite them people
in, because you know?
some people were interpreting itthat way, and somebody said
something that I found reallyinteresting.
Um, they said that the Klan wasthe Republicans and that the
(13:39):
vampires were the Democrats.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
Oh, that is interesting, and I'm not mad at
it.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
I hope that's not true, but that certainly gave me
food for thought, I mean that'sa whole thing, but I see where
they're coming from.
It was definitely food forthought.
I was like I never I mean,that's a take I wouldn't have
come to on my own- Me either.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
But wow, yeah, you could do a whole thesis on that,
but what did?
What was your initial thoughtson Mary in that relationship?
Speaker 2 (14:18):
um, famous yours I.
I did think he loved her.
I didn't initially becauseinitially when he kept pushing
her away I thought he waspushing her away because he just
didn't like her.
But then when he opened up toher in the club, yeah, you know,
then I could see okay.
So this is why you're pushingher away, because you know, know
, you want her to be okay andthis isn't the time for y'all's
(14:40):
romance, like literally.
So I saw her as wanting to dothe right thing.
I saw her as beingwell-intentioned, intentioned.
I didn't like that and I knowhe invited it because Stack's
(15:02):
character, where he's differentthan Smoke, was like how Smoke
was empowering the little girland teaching her the little girl
he has to wash his truck andteaching her how to negotiate
for more money and stuff likethat.
And listening to Annie andsupporting Annie and you know
what I mean.
Like respecting black women,stacked it, a lot of the
opposite of that, like the wayhe was talking to the one man's
(15:24):
wife in the cotton field andstuff like that.
You know what I mean.
Oh, yeah, he was charismatic,but he was also super
disrespectful, you know, know asa character and like in the
club, when he said somethinglike I'll get one of these B
words to drag you out, and thenshe was like you taught me how
to fight, I'll beat every one ofthese B's in here.
(15:48):
I didn't like her disrespectingevery Black woman in the club or
every woman in general, becausethat wasn't really cool.
But his personality being whatit is, it would make sense that,
she being his love interest, itwould be the woman who would,
because if you were the womanwho would be offended by him
speaking about the women thatway, or would correct it, or
even if you didn't correct it,at least not feed into it then
(16:08):
you're not the kind of womanthat would probably date a guy
like him.
So I understood it for hercharacterization.
I thought she had some bars,though she was a great rapper.
Uh, from the you going, you canrob trains and can't you steal
this, you know, like if you sawthe movie, you know?
And then, um, even in the traintracks, with the first thing
(16:29):
she said at the train station tohim oh, what was it?
Oh, yeah, yeah she was like youtold me you love me.
And then he was like I alsotold you to stay the hell away
from me.
And then she was like, yeah,but then you Mm-hmm, mm-hmm,
yeah, you did something so good,I thought you changed your mind
or whatever so hard.
(16:50):
I thought you changed your mindand then I was like, okay, this
is where we are.
I was getting too hot.
How do you want it?
Vibes?
Speaker 3 (17:07):
what goes through that um intermixing of the past,
present and future with themusic, um.
But there's one character weshould also talk about, future
Boy.
He's kind of the thread ofeverything.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
I loved him.
His talent was otherworldly.
I found a lot of I.
I found it interesting thechurch, um, how his dad
(17:46):
basically was trying to make himchoose, like he literally took
his guitar and had it hidden inthe church or whatever, and dad,
and then at the end of themovie, his dad's like give me
the guitar and the guitarliterally is what saved his life
.
You know what I mean.
So he wasn't trying to let itgo and again, his talent was
(18:08):
over, was otherworldly.
That was like a gift from Godtype of voice, super, super
talented.
So it almost seemed sinful totry to deny him a gift given to
him by something other.
You know what I mean, somethingother than yourself.
So, yeah, I don't know, like Isaid, sammy did really good.
(18:29):
It was his first movie and Iwouldn't have known that, having
watched it, because heperformed fabulously, learned
how to play guitar for the movie.
I didn't know that.
Yeah, they said he learned howin like three months.
And, um, they said like one day, on the set, his hand cramped
because they literally had himpracticing like five hours to
sound like he'd been playing fora long time uh-huh, wow, that's
(18:53):
amazing.
I love that um just, I loved himin perlene.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
That was cute, yes, really I feel bad for her
husband now I was like I waswondering, please her husband
like what he's not here hewasn't preacher boy that night,
was he?
Speaker 2 (19:15):
and they're pushing buttons and what that?
Speaker 3 (19:19):
all that he learned about earlier that day.
Yes, so funny because when theywere in the car and zach was
telling him about the the buttonthe first time I saw it, I kind
of missed that conversation.
I was like I don't know, maybeI was like thinking or something
at the same time.
But when I saw it the secondtime I was like, oh, but at the
(19:40):
same time, yes, tell him theright things to do every man in
America watching this movieexactly so.
Thank you, ryan Coogler, forthat.
Thank you, ryan Coogler.
But yeah, and I love how, inthe end, with the extra scenes,
(20:06):
how it continues with hischaracter, to my understanding
is that the very, very end.
That's him like he has passedon his natural life and he's in
the church since he turned themdown.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Read it that way.
That was the one scene in themovie I didn't understand,
because I was like why is heyoung again?
Yeah, that's why I thought, whyI like the song he's playing
the guitar.
I was like maybe this was justan outtake they couldn't find
room for, so they just tacked iton there.
But maybe that one just flewover my head and I dismissed
(20:45):
that one because I was like oh,I interpreted like.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
At first I was like I thought the same thing as you
oh, this is weird.
Why is he young again?
But then I'm like, oh, heprobably died, and like this is
the representation of that.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
But that makes more sense than what I was thinking.
The mid-credit scene was great.
I liked that, I liked.
To me that was like the heartof the movie, that scene, and it
humanized Stack's character alot.
And you know, some people whowere expecting a straight horror
(21:22):
movie didn't like it as muchbecause they felt like it took
some of the teeth out of thevampire at the end where he was
saying like that was the bestnight of my life before the sun
went down.
Last time I saw the sun, lasttime I got to meet my brother
and all that good stuff.
But to me it humanized him.
My prediction for the sequel,if they do it, is the vampire
hunters and Stack.
(21:42):
But since we left at the end itlooks like we're in the 90s.
Then I'm guessing it wouldprobably be like the descendants
or the children or grands ofthose original hunters.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
that's my guess that was the one group I wanted to
see again.
So, yeah, I would love that,because they show up and they
don't come back yeah, because Ididn't think I mean to me.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
I didn't think they put it there for no reason, but
maybe I'm wrong, but that was myguess and I would like that as
a sequel yeah, I thought I reador heard some rumblings about a
potential sequel, so that's agood idea.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
So putting that out in the ethos.
Um the vampires, right well, Ikeep forgetting.
Honestly, I keep forgettingabout the vampires because
everything else is so good but,yes, the vampires.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
I like that Remnick was Irish.
Remnick, is that how you say it?
I think it's Remnick.
I like that he was Irishbecause they were also colonized
by Europe and I thought thatwas an excellent ploy.
When he comes to the clubAlthough true, when he's
(22:59):
basically like you know thisplace that you think you bought
from these people they're clanmembers.
They're planning on coming backand killing you after they took
your money.
Basically, you were never goingto survive this.
I'm going to let you free.
You could live forever, Join myclub.
I thought that was a compellingargument Because if you're
(23:23):
living in hell already, it mightbe tempting to make a deal with
the devil, Like, literally,slavery's ended, but most of
them are still sharecropping tosurvive and then they're being
paid in wooden nickels andplantation dollars.
You can't build generationalwealth with that, because it's
not even of value outside ofthat little city or town or the
stores that have agreed to takeit because they have deals with
the plantation owners.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
So you can't build generational wealth.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
You can't pass anything down.
They're not really attemptingto give you any property
ownership because even in thiscase, where the guys had the
money, they're planning ontaking it.
You know, much like Tulsa andRosewood when people built
wealth and the communities weredestroyed by hate.
At that time it was hard tobuild, it was hard to achieve
because literally society waspushing back against you and
(24:07):
trying to cut you off at theknees before you had the
opportunity.
So that would definitely havebeen a tempting argument for me.
I don't know about you.
How about you?
Would you have don fangs?
I?
Speaker 3 (24:18):
don't know I.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I honestly don't know I I might have done things and
showed up at some clan rallies.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
Well, well time, um, but you said something, oh,
about the irish thing.
I loved it because there is ahistory of the irish and african
americans in this country thatgets no like nobody really talks
about, and I remember, likeseeing and reading somewhere
(24:47):
that up to like 38 percent ofafrican americans have irish
lineage.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
I do not a lot not enough to talk about I do I not
a lot.
Not enough to talk about.
I'm my ancestry.
Not enough to talk about.
Like one percent or something.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
Yeah, yeah, teeny tiny percentage well then, maybe
you're a part of that number.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
I don't know A teeny tiny percentage, like a
hangnail's worth.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
But there is that history there, so that's one of
the reasons why I liked it, thatlayer.
But now you've got me thinking.
Would I have taken that to you?
Speaker 2 (25:30):
But to me it not only humanized the villain from a
writer's perspective, becausehe's been oppressed and he's,
but it also to me like it was ametaphor of like assimilation.
And a metaphor of likecolonization too, because, like
I was colonized, now I'm thecolonizer because I'm telling
you to join me and I think I'msaving you.
(25:50):
So I'm white, savioring it up.
I'm now I'm the colonizerbecause I'm telling you to join
me.
I think I'm saving you, I'msaving you from those evils.
Join me.
I just have to kill you first,then you die.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
I've saved you.
It's like you end upassimilating and everything that
you were goes away, exactly,exactly.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
I think that's kind of what why I like the last
scene, because he was like um,basically stack was saying that
he felt the freest that day.
Last day he saw the sun, lastday he was with his brother.
So that means that since he'sbeen a vampire for these
whatever 80, 100 or how manyyears it was- right you haven't
really felt free.
You've been, you know, trappedby the night and we know they're
(26:34):
vampire hunters.
So if I had to guess there wasa sequel, you had to do some
running over the years.
You know, some running and somefighting you have to hide um
yeah, can't be out during theday exactly.
But I thought that was superinteresting because, like the
cultural appropriation of it all, when it's like I love your
music, I love your art, you knowyou're, I'll have your stories,
(26:58):
he says to Sammy, you'll havemine, but who cares that Sammy
doesn't consent.
Now let me drown you right hereso that we can be a part of
each other.
It was really weird.
But, um, how do you see, or didyou see, that the film echoing
those things, or was that meoverthinking again, because I
(27:20):
overthink echoing which things,the cultural appropriation and
assimilation and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
I saw it.
Yeah, that's what I thought.
Yeah, that's what the vampireswere symbolizing.
I thought that's what theirsymbolization was.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
True, but, like I said, I thought it was an
interesting choice to use Irish,specifically because they've
been colonized too.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
It's the perfect choice.
They've been colonized too.
It's the perfect choice.
Um, they've been colonized too.
So, like he understands thatpart, and then also like I was
saying that history that ourcultures have in this country um
.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
So I was just like yeah that's like the perfect
choice really true, and I lovedthat in the very first scene,
when he's running and he's onfire which fire?
Daytime maybe, because I readhorror in my mind.
I'm thinking vampire.
Hello yeah, people, god blessthem.
We're victims of their ownwhite supremacy and racism.
(28:22):
Because they let him in, thisstranger.
He's offering money andclaiming Indians are chasing him
.
So they let him in because youknow they're thinking poor white
guy chased by Indians, claimingIndians are chasing him.
So they let him in because youknow they're thinking poor white
guy chased by Indians.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
Then, excuse me, native Americans I'm sorry, I'm
always, um, you know, want touse the politically correct in
the correct terms but, um, likeI said, oh sorry, I was gonna
say it depends on who you askwith that, because some people
in that culture don't actuallylike Native American, so but I
mean that's the whole thing.
I know people that don't likeAfrican American.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
They like just call me black, so that's all yeah, I
had a friend named Madonna whoused to call herself Indian.
She lived on a plantation, wasNative American or Indian or
whatever preferred to be called.
But I just don't want to offendanybody, but you know what I
mean.
But it was just interesting tome that he goes to their house
and he can see the clan garbover their shoulder, so he goes
(29:11):
in with the narrative theybelieve and then they let him in
and then the guys come, thehunters come to the door who are
of native american or indiandescent, and they're basically
like there's a dangerous guy inthere, you're in danger, let me
help.
And she's like no, now shebasically pulls as the shotgun
to their face and this, that,that and the third, and she's,
(29:32):
just because of her beliefs,thinks they're the bad guys.
And I just, I love that theIndians or Native Americans did
not push it.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
I love that they were like OK, well, sounds about
right, but I love that scenebecause it's so indicative of
everything that's happeningright now or that happens, what
happening and happened when it.
When you talk about theelection and stuff, you have
people trying to warn otherpeople like this is what's
(30:05):
actually going to happen.
There's danger here and peoplenot listening because of their
beliefs.
And right now you know thingshave happened and it's like, oh,
we tried to tell you.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
I don't think it was that they didn't listen.
I think it was that they didn'tthink they'd be a victim of it.
I think it was that theythought, well, this is the other
person's problem, this won'taffect me.
But if my groceries go down,yay.
That they thought, well, thisis the other person's problem,
this won't affect me.
But if my groceries would godown, yay.
And then when it, you know,ended up in them losing jobs and
the groceries not going downand prices and inflation
actually going up, then they'relike, oh oh, oh, oh, shit, this
(30:40):
is bad, this isn't what Iexpected.
But I think, since the personhad it but I think because he
had a first term, I don't thinkit was that they don't know,
because we've seen it before Ithink it was that they didn't
care if they didn't feel like itaffected them personally.
That's my take.
(31:02):
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe therewere some who didn't know, but I
just find that hard to believe,since we had four years of it
prior.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
A mix of both.
But yeah, but that scene itjust really did.
That's what I felt of afterwatching that scene.
It's just like I'm trying totell you, I'm trying to help you
and, yeah, because of yourthought processes, you're not
listening to me.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
just because I'm, I look a certain way right, which
happens, um, I remember being inclasses in college, um,
undergrad, and there was thisgirl who had a thick philly
accent but was freakingbrilliant and she would talk in
class and they would act likeshe wasn't saying anything or
(31:49):
like they didn't get it untillike a white person would second
what she said.
And then, all of a sudden, itwas correct and I'm like hello,
she's been right the whole time.
You're so into your bias abouthow she looks and how she speaks
that you couldn't really seethe fact she was conveying.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
So yeah, that part I liked.
What were you thinking aboutyour thought process on the
store owners, the Chinese storeowners?
Speaker 3 (32:16):
um.
Their daughter is hilarious,even though she said nothing,
but she said a lot, her likedemeanor um.
But like I said earlier, I thinkit's like I didn't know that
there were like chinesecommunities in the south um so
that was interesting and thatand it took the second time I
(32:39):
saw the movie that there was awhite store and a black store,
because I remember the firsttime I saw it I was like, well,
why is the wife over there?
And then, like the second time,I realized, oh, that's the store
for the white people, and thenthe other stores black people,
and it, um, I mean, it's anotherinteresting layer of like, as a
(33:01):
and talking about recent timesas well um, in a sense, in terms
of owning stores, you know,black person probably couldn't
have owned a storefront in thatarea.
Um, right, and yet you have thechinese couple who have two,
and the white people do buythings from them, whereas if
(33:23):
there was a black store there,the white people wouldn't buy
anything from them.
Um, so those those like racialdynamics that are interesting,
um, and then you know, you canget into, like the what is it?
In my mind?
I'm saying perfect minority.
That's not what it is modelminority, yeah, the model
(33:44):
minority, um those sorts ofdiscussions and that sort of
thing, so that they can havethat other love that and that.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
um, when, like you, did the research after the film
and that actually was true atthat time a lot of Chinese
people came over to work on therailroads and then they were
able to get loans and grants andstuff after that that we
wouldn't have been able to get.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
So they were able to to be in this position Exactly.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
So they were able to be in those positions exactly so
they were able to be in thosepositions.
You know what I mean and youknow, um, I thought it was also
interesting.
I think the husband had a pureinvolvement and view with the
community.
I felt like his bond with thebrothers seemed genuine, like
the friendship with smoke seemedlike real.
Yeah, and then, like when thestuff hit the fan, it was the
wife who was like we gotta go,we ain't sign up for this.
But he wasn't like trying tocut and run, you know what I
mean, but it was the wife andthen she sent him outside yeah,
(34:43):
she sent him outside to beturned.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
I think he might did that, were they in the service
together.
I don't know if I made that upor not.
Um, I don't remember.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
I saw the movie twice , as you know, but I don't
remember that.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
I thought maybe that's why they had such a
strong bond too, because maybethey were in the service
together, but I don't know.
I could have just made that upin my head.
Um, yeah, I always wonderedthat too.
Why did she send him outside?
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Because she saw stuff hitting the fan and then she
was like get the car, we're notgoing.
We came here basically to hostthe party and to this, that and
the third, but not for the otherstuff.
So it was like she was an allyas long as she was profiting off
the community, and then, assoon as she couldn't, when the
stuff hit the fan, she was likeit's time to cut and run, so she
(35:30):
sent her husband out there tobe turned into a vampire.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
Basically timing, because, like everybody else had
already left, something'sobviously wrong.
Right, there's nobody else outfront until you just send him
out there by himself, like to me.
That was.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
To me, that was just like let's just stay here
together, um right, um, butspeaking of, and then she was
the one who called the vampiresin exactly I couldn't totally be
mad at her because they didthreaten her daughter.
So I can understand wanting tothrow hands at that point,
wanting to fight it out.
I can understand it.
But I could not understandputting my anger above the
(36:12):
safety of everyone around me.
You know what I mean.
So it was like you were alignedwith the community as long as
you were profiting off thecommunity and then at the end
it's like my rage is moreimportant than your actual lives
.
Because while they were tryingto make steaks and stuff.
They weren't prepared yet.
They were trying to cover hermouth.
She bit the man's hand andcalled him inside.
But they were different andbetter than me, because when she
(36:33):
started acting irate and actinglike she wanted to scream, I
would have threw her butt outthere to them so I could live
till sunrise.
I'm like, look, you sent yourhusband out there, go be with
him go be with your husband.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
My whole thing exactly was like after that all
played out like I was like what?
Speaker 2 (36:52):
WTF.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
But then, like, like the logic, like I understand as
a I'm not a mother, but like asa mother wanting to protect your
child, but like, logically,would they have been able to get
to her?
Like the sun came up, like fiveminutes later.
You know, like all that kind ofstuff.
I'm just like, was it necessary?
Um, and then she ends up dyinglike two seconds late.
(37:14):
Like what?
Like what are we doing?
Um, exactly, so it's okay foryou.
Like just like you were saying,it's just like your
self-interest are more importantthan anybody else's life in
this room, when everybody elseis like no but exactly you take
it upon yourself to make thedecision for everyone else,
(37:35):
right?
And so, yeah, I felt a wayabout that yep, yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Well, I, I, like I said I I got the feeling of
wanting to do that.
You know know what I mean.
I can understand that, yeah,any mother would have had that
feeling of wanting to, but, yeah, they should have pushed her
out the barn door.
Look, or knocked her out orsomething you know that poor
(38:03):
drunk guy that got thrown out.
She should have been beside him.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
Oh my God, he's not even turned, he just passed out.
He took his ass off.
She should have been beside him.
Oh my God, he's not even turned.
He just passed out, he took hisass off excuse me but that was
(38:28):
hysterical.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
And when the woman's husband walks back up, now
vampire, but she doesn't know itand the other vampire is just
killing this man, her husband'sjust all calm.
Got the car ready, babe, you'reready to go.
She's like the other vampireright across from killing
somebody, she's.
She's like, basically like hehas no reaction to it.
(38:52):
She's a, and he's like, well,why don't you just invite me?
And like we can get our stufftogether.
That was funny.
Those are the moments.
I really loved and DelroyLindo's character.
I loved him from when he was inthe car and he's telling that
story and he's putting all thisemotion in it and then he turns
(39:14):
the emotion into like a rhythm,the blues that was beautiful to
the.
I shat myself.
He was priceless.
He was great.
Every character was great.
He was really great.
I thought michael b didfabulous.
You couldn't even like he.
(39:37):
He very much played it like twodifferent people.
He did a great job with that.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
He did a wonderful job.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
And did you see the meme where they were like?
This is what I mean when I sayI want a pair of Jordans.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
Oh, I didn't see that , but yeah, did we miss anybody?
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Did we discuss them all?
Speaker 3 (40:00):
We touched on the main characters.
I don't know his name, but theguy that was from Ballers, the
tall guy, have you seen the showBallers?
He was the one that was in that.
They got from the field andstacked with.
Oh, okay, he was really goodtoo, he's hilarious, and after
(40:24):
he got turned and tried to comeback in, that scene was just
hilarious.
It got to the point where it wasjust like what is he even
talking about?
All this random stuff?
You know, something's wrongbecause he's just randomly
saying a whole bunch of stuff.
And those are the the momentsin this movie that I really
(40:45):
enjoyed.
Um, because sometimes, you know, horror movies can be so
serious and stuff or they can betoo campy.
Um, but this one, like had areally great mix of all those
things it did and I love thesocial commentary like,
especially like, rem mick Ithink it's remick from what I
(41:06):
remember, yeah the vampire guy.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
I especially loved what he represented because he
wasn't racist.
Like I said, he thought he wasdoing the right thing.
He just, you know, was going tokill you.
First.
He become a vampire.
He thought he was saving youfor the rapist from the racist
by killing you.
You know what I mean, so Iliked that.
That was very interesting.
That made him a more compellingvillain.
Just to be the straight up, I'ma bad guy thing.
(41:30):
That was completely here forthe scene in the morning when
the oh, oh, the scene whereSammy got the unholy baptism and
was about to die and savedhimself with the guitar.
What were your thoughts on thatpart?
Speaker 3 (41:51):
yeah, I mean we should also circle back to the,
the actual, uh, the music part.
Oh, yeah, yeah, it was funnybecause I didn't realize that
his guitar had a metal part toit.
I don't know if Argyle Tartguitars are like that, so when
it stuck in Remick's head I wasjust sitting there laughing.
(42:15):
I was like what is that?
He's just standing theretalking.
But it's funny that the thingthat the father was saying you
know, we'll bring the devil andthat kind of stuff is what saved
his life.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
His music yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
It's like at the same time it brought the devil, but
then you could try and kill thedevil with it too.
I don't.
I didn't understand, though,because after he hit him with it
, there was like smoke orsomething coming out of his head
yeah, because I think it wassupposed to be silver.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
You know vampire lore and silver oh that one I didn't
know.
Speaker 3 (42:56):
okay, yeah, didn't know that because I was like why
is there?
Because I was like Is there aholy water somewhere?
It's over, okay.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
When the guy called him tried to drown him.
That's what made the unholybaptism referenced for anybody
who didn't see the movie.
But yeah, I loved it.
I loved the vampires when theywere all outside getting down,
getting it like Thriller dancing.
It was so good it was happening.
Speaker 3 (43:24):
It the vampires when they were all outside getting
down, getting it like Thrillerdancing.
It was fun.
That was like a fun that's whatI was thinking of like the
Thriller moment to the Irishmusic.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
And, to be honest, I liked that music.
Then, when they first came tothe door picking poor Robin
clean, I was not really here forthat song.
It was a little odd.
It was very odd, yeah, butafterwards when they got outside
and everybody was dancing andstuff, they were jamming I'm
like I was here for it.
I was patting my foot, ofcourse.
(43:57):
It was cool.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
Um, um so, just in terms of movies in general, I
hope.
Oh, that's another thing thatdid you.
You want to talk about the, thescandal, or is it really?
but scandal but the Varietyarticle that came out first
(44:25):
weekend with the headline wasbasically made it seem like okay
, like Sinners is doing well,but it's going to take a long
time for them to make the moneyback for the movie.
So it was kind of downing themovie when it was actually
having a great weekend.
Um, right, and I loved thatcelebrities actually push back
(44:52):
on them like, um I think benstiller was the main one um,
patrick schwarzenegger saidsomething.
It's just like these are thethis like when we talk about
allies, this is what you do,because obviously there was
hypocrisy in that headline andthat article because someone
(45:13):
posted similar budget movie.
Was it Once Upon a Time inHollywood?
Tarantino movie had a similarbudget, same type of deal, made
less money in its openingweekend, but got this praise
from the very same publication.
Um, and so people put those twothings together and it's just
(45:35):
like, okay, well, the movie withthe white cast, oh so, great
weekend, or whatever.
But then the movie with theblack cast that made a little
more money, oh well, you know,it's going to take them so long
to get the money back.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
Blah, blah, blah and, mind you, that was like 45 or
46 million opening weekend andthat was before the box office
had closed on sunday when theywere paid, and that was, mind
you, just in the us when theymade that comment.
But basically it was like like,yeah, I had a good weekend, but
who knows, like you said, howlong it's going to take them to
pay it back or something to thateffect, whereas with the other
(46:08):
film it was like, oh, they'reoff to a great start, because
opening weekend, really Sunday,not even closed out, and that
was just domestically.
It's still going to be playingeverywhere else too and it's in
less theaters than a lot of.
Exactly, and they said it waslike the highest grossing non-IP
(46:29):
movie since before COVID, since2019.
So far in opening week, well,the highest grossing opening
weekend since 2019.
So, and then this week, thefollowing weekend basically
usually movies have a drop afteropening weekend and they said
it had a much smaller drop thannormal movies typically do.
(46:52):
Yeah, in the second week, andalready.
Speaker 3 (46:55):
They're at like $120 million domestically.
I think I read it was like $160million worldwide right now,
which means that they're goingto make back the money in a
shorter amount of time than thepublication was trying to make
it seem, and it's a bright light.
I'll just say to HollywoodPeople want to see original
(47:16):
things, they want to see good,original movies.
Everyone's kind of tired outwith the IP.
They're not even good anymoreLike they used to be.
So, yeah, hopefully they'llTake a real clue from it.
I did read an article thatHollywood always ends up Taking
(47:37):
the wrong message From thingsLike with Barbie.
The message was let's make morelike movies about toys instead
of let's make more female ledempower movies.
Um, true so, and the diversity.
I had originally read that, um,some publication was playing
(48:00):
down the diversity of theaudience that has come to see
Sinners, or saying that, oh, youknow, if they think more about
something, about like wideningtheir audience, maybe it'll do
better.
But then people were like.
The audience that I went to wassuper diverse, like everyone
(48:21):
was there and where I was, itwas predominantly white.
Speaker 2 (48:24):
Don't get me wrong.
Black people were thererepresenting, but the side of
town I live on has a lot morewhite people and they were all
in the theater with me trying tomake you vampire, so it's just
like everybody is going to seethis movie.
Speaker 3 (48:40):
It's not just because a cast is predominantly black
doesn't mean that only Blackpeople are going to see the
movie.
Speaker 2 (48:47):
Exactly.
And the brilliant thing he did,ryan, was he came in the gate
with he did Fruitvale Station,like his first one, which was
really good.
But he came in the gate withlike the IP things that we love,
like Black Panther, wakanda,forever, Creed, which is from
the Rocky franchise, and hebuilt up that audience with
(49:09):
those before he stepped out withhis own original content and
stuff and his deal was awesome.
Bro, we should all have hisagent because they basically in
20 or 25 years they have to givehim back the rights to the
movie so it stays in his family.
And on top of that he gets paid.
(49:30):
Before they recoup for themovie, before they recoup what
they spent to make the movie, hegets paid.
He gets paid a percentage offthe door of their sales from day
one and he gets paid gross offof the gross sales, not the net.
So his agent did that thing andthat's been getting a lot of
headlines too, because peoplewere like reporting it, like it
(49:53):
was a bad thing, like they werelike well, hollywood shaking
because of the deal he got anddah, dah, dah, dah, dah, and
other directors have had thosetype of deals.
Speaker 3 (50:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:03):
Yeah, usually it's the big name, the powerhouse
directors that are bringing inthat kind of money.
But, like I saw this interviewWith them, exactly I saw this
interview with him where it feltto me like the woman was almost
saying like his deal was anegative, like her tone to him
was almost like, you know, likehe'd done something wrong.
And I thought his response wasbrilliant because he was like
(50:25):
I'm under 40 and my films havegrossed over 6 billion.
And then he was like exactly.
And then he was like there was,you know, nothing wrong with me
wanting to keep the contentthat I wrote, that created, that
I created, you know, in myfamily, basically.
And then he was like like andother directors have had similar
(50:46):
types of deals.
And then she was like well, ifother people had this deal, why
is it making such a big dealabout you having it?
And he was like I have my ideas.
And then she was like well,what are they?
And he just laughed.
And when he laughed, we allknew exactly what he was talking
about.
He didn't have to say it, weknew exactly what he was talking
about.
You didn't have to say it, weknew exactly what he was talking
about.
Ask that question, geez, yeahbut it was not only the asking,
(51:07):
like I said, it was the tone inthe asking to me felt like
almost like she didn't feel hedeserved it you know what I mean
.
Speaker 3 (51:13):
Like, yeah, just from black panther and wakanda, like
forever, those alone, exactly,you know?
Um, so it's just like y'allthey're acting like he just
joined, like he just showed up,and it's like no, he's been
exactly many years andeverything he's done has hit it.
So what is the?
Speaker 2 (51:35):
problem, exactly, it's weird and honestly, I
respect his pen so much that I'dlikely go see everything,
anything with his name attached,just because exactly he's shown
me that what has his nameattached is going to give me
quality and a good experiencewith the movies right and that's
why people show up to the movieexactly and spend their
hard-earned money exactly.
Speaker 3 (51:57):
hollywood keeps whining about people not going
to the movies Y'all not puttingout quality, that's true.
Speaker 2 (52:05):
All right, I'll come out the closet.
I wasn't going to tell you, butI saw it three times In the
theater.
Speaker 3 (52:14):
Look at it If the industry doesn't take a huge
hint from this.
It's lost, because this is whaty'all need to be doing.
Speaker 2 (52:27):
This is what people want to see True, the other
controversy that I read about inconnection with this film was
that a lot of or I won't say alot because I don't know that
it's a lot, but some Latino andLatina creators were people,
were on the Internet upsetbecause, while there was
diversity and representation,they didn't see themselves
(52:47):
repped in this, and I found thatinteresting on a couple of
fronts.
Number one if you saw WakandaForever, there was a lot of rep
in the Latino and Latinacommunity Right.
And number two, that wasn't thestory he was telling this time.
When I saw Crazy Rich Asians,when I saw Selena, when I saw a
(53:14):
lot of different stories thatpeople told that were freaking,
fabulous and fantastic abouttheir culture every film doesn't
have to include other culturesif that's not the story you're
telling this time.
While I love diversity and Ilove rep, when I see it, it's
not always fitting.
If I'm writing a story about myfamily, for example, if it's
about my family, then it wouldlook like the people in my
(53:35):
family.
If I'm writing a story that'sabout the broader world, of
course you know more people fromthe broader world be included,
so I felt like that was kind ofmisplaced.
I think, though, maybe becausethere was so much rep in the
last film, they probably went inexcited, thinking that they
would have the same experiencethis time, and this time it was
a different story.
(53:55):
So maybe that's where thedisappointment came from.
Plus, right now they're underfire with everything going on
politically too, so maybe theykind of needed a bit of a
pick-me-up and they were likethinking this was going to be it
and they were disappointed.
Speaker 3 (54:08):
I mean, like looks like you were saying not
everyone is going to be ineverything right.
But I do understand like okay,there's a lot of representation
in this movie and it's notthere's kind of like the one
group that's not in.
But at the same time like Imean I don't know, but what is
the history of the latinoculture, latino cultures in that
(54:32):
area?
Speaker 2 (54:33):
that's true, because in that area, in that time, we
don't know how many were there,or if they weren't or not like.
That's true.
Speaker 3 (54:39):
That's true.
We do know there were Blackcommunities.
I've learned that there was aChinese community, the Native
American communities were there,the white people were, but I
don't know.
I could be speaking out ofpocket.
Speaker 2 (54:57):
And I did like I have a second and I did like that
they had the Chineserepresentation in this and I
liked that they were representedas the store owners because,
let's be honest, there's a lotof that in the Black community,
where there's a lot of Asian orArab or Middle Eastern store
owners in our communities.
(55:17):
So it was nice to see that.
And I also liked theconversation on like allyship or
performative allyship that ithas people having, because
that's a thing.
Speaker 3 (55:34):
So I mean, this is what I love about film and what
I love about being a storyteller, because this is exactly why I
wanted to be a writer.
You can reflect all of this intheir stories.
And then letting in vampiresand what that represents and all
those kind of things.
So you start thinking aboutyour own allyship as a person,
(56:11):
allyship as a community, and tome, that's what storytelling is
about.
For me, that's why I got intoit.
Kudos to Ranko.
Storytelling is about, for me,that's why I got into it.
Speaker 2 (56:23):
Who knows to write the case that went to the
supreme court to shoot downaffirmative action.
Speaker 3 (56:29):
The recent one yeah yes, and a part of that is
particularly when you talk aboutimmigrants not understanding
the history of the cultureyou're coming into Right, and
that makes it even sadder.
Speaker 2 (56:48):
Right Because, as some, because it's white
supremacists propped you up toshoot down a program that
benefited you.
Speaker 3 (56:57):
That benefited you and you think you're knocking
down particularly black people,right, um?
But then it was also thiscommunity is the reason you're
allowed into the country, right?
Like that whole history ofblack people fighting for the,
for chinese people, um, to beable to come back into the
(57:20):
united states.
Speaker 2 (57:21):
I don't remember all the names of the I don't
remember if the particularpeople I was talking about in
that case were chinese or not.
Speaker 3 (57:27):
I just remember they were asian I remember correctly,
I think they were korean, butI'm just saying like because of
that, that also allowed otherasian people to come in true.
Speaker 2 (57:37):
And then like I think of, like the tawana brawley
case, because I'm that old whenshe was in a store shopping and
the Asian store owner shot herfor like some orange juice, and
so then it was like all thischaos in the newspapers and
stuff.
Speaker 3 (58:04):
So I think some of that and, like I've read about
this um, in that area, um, asthe the communities were trying
to rebuild and build unitybetween each other, a lot of the
korean immigrant communitydidn't know the history of the
oppression of black people inthe us and then, learning that
history, they started tounderstand why certain things
were happening.
And and it wasn't just I don'tlike you until I'm doing this
thing to you, it's this wholesystem of things.
Speaker 2 (58:27):
So that's why I was saying about like we all need to
like we need to learn abouteach other Understand what's
really good, and I wasn'tbringing up those other
situations to like disparageanybody of the Asian background
or any Korean Chinese anybody.
I was bringing it up really tosay that there's like a thick,
complicated, layered historybetween cultures that if you
(58:51):
read newspapers and historybooks you can track.
And so I think for thosereasons and because the story he
wrote and where it was at,these were the people in those
locations, and because the storyhe wrote and where it was at,
these were the people in thoselocations, I think those are the
reasons that, maybe why he wasspeaking to this in this film.
Speaker 3 (59:08):
You know what I mean.
Yeah, that's what the focus was.
Speaker 2 (59:10):
Yeah, yeah.
But I'm saying I'm trying toprobably very poorly for the
people who were like upsetbecause they didn't see
themselves in it explain thatyou know, there's a history
there and a complicated historythere.
I think that's why he wanted itto go that way in this
particular film.
Then, with the location, wedon't know.
To me that's where it wascoming from.
I think they felt like itlooked a lot like From Dusk Till
(59:33):
Dawn, which was a Latinovampire movie.
I have not seen.
I take that back.
I probably saw it, but if I did, it would have been way back
when it came out.
Yeah, so I don't remember theplot enough to know if it was
like a, you know an echo of that, because we're all inspired by
something.
So I mean he said he wasinspired by the stand I don't, I
(59:56):
didn't see them the stephenking book, I don't watch it,
Particularly Stephen King stuffI cannot.
I can see that because StephenKing writes long books and
basically the part he describedas being like the stand was how
he does the characterexploration first and then the
drama kicks off.
That's very Stephen King-esque.
So you know what I mean.
(01:00:17):
How, like the first half of themovie, you're getting to know
Smoke Snack and the Jacksoncommunity and then later on the
vampires.
That to me I could see becausethat seemed very Stephen
King-esque.
Once he said it I would neverpicture it on my own, but when
he said it in an interview I waslike, oh, I can see that.
Speaker 3 (01:00:34):
Did you say Stephen King writes long books or song
books, long books.
Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
Long, a lot of Stephen King books.
I'll give you Fairy Tale, forexample, because I'm a Stephen
King fan, I read the whole thing, but if it was any other author
I would not have made it to theend, because it was so.
It was a long book and it was alot of character development
before the action kicked off,and my attention span is not
that, so I would put it down.
Speaker 3 (01:01:04):
But because I love Stephen King and I know he's
going to give me the payoff Iwant, I patiently waited for the
the payoff, you know.
Yeah, the slow burn that's theone of the criticisms I've heard
from people about sinners.
Um, was that like that?
It didn't like.
It felt slow to them in thebeginning.
Then you get to the vampiresand they didn't like that.
Speaker 2 (01:01:19):
Um, that's why, when he told me that that was his
inspiration, I was like I cantotally see that.
Like well, he didn't tell me.
I saw it can't be.
I don't know personally, likehe told me, like he was over
yesterday.
Speaker 3 (01:01:31):
Oh hi, ryan, would you like some tea, sweet tea
might be something similar with,I don't remember, from dust
because, like I think the when Isaw it was in the 90s.
But like um, when you talkabout any type of artist, you
are drawing inspiration fromcertain things, just like with
the irish dance and everythingyou know.
(01:01:53):
We both thought of thriller andthat sort of thing.
So it's not, you know you.
There's that vague um, what'sthe word I'm looking for?
Not representation?
A vague allude, allude, shin toit, allusion.
Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
There's that vague allusion and true, and I learned
.
I didn't know this either, butI learned that the guy at the
end that's playing the guitar,pretending to be future sammy,
is an actual blues player ohyeah and he apparently his uncle
, because he got the idea forthe movie.
Well, part of it because hisuncle was a huge blues fanatic
(01:02:29):
and he was working on creed.
So he missed his uncle dyingand his funeral and he felt
terrible and he said he wouldlisten to the blues when he
thought of his uncle.
And then the story idea startedcoming marinating and, um, so
the guy is actually his uncle'sfavorite blues player.
So I thought that was a cutestory yeah and he said that he,
um, when he reached out to himhe was like I had my whole pitch
(01:02:52):
ready to give him to try to gethim to be in the movie.
And then when I showed up hishouse, his kids and his
grandkids are there and I got mypitch ready and then he was
like basically like yeah, mygrandkids told me that whatever
you ask I need to say yes to.
I love that.
But I guess his kids andgrandkids knew what Ryan Coogler
(01:03:13):
is to the culture.
They were like, yeah, you needto do whatever exactly, and then
people will look him up thatwas cute.
Yeah, I thought it was a greatfilm we'll watch it again soon
it was a great film, greatexperience.
It was a great night for AMCbecause I'm sure they did well
(01:03:37):
throughout all this.
Warner Brothers there was oneperson who had some complaints.
She loved the movie, but sheworks at the theaters.
Speaker 3 (01:03:46):
My daughter and she was like I'm tired of cleaning
up after these crafts she lovedthe movie, though that's another
thing I loved about the moviethe communal experience it
reminded me of when I went tosee Get Out, where people like
you're laughing together.
You're like yelling at thescreen together, like shut the
(01:04:09):
door, like I don't know that's.
I love that type of likecommunal theater experience.
Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
And I love the way that, like, social media was
coming alive with it too, likeeverybody had their different
takes and stuff like that, andthat's always cool, yes, yeah.
So I'm gonna ask you one lasttime okay remix at your door
right now oh my god he's aknocking, he's offering you's
(01:04:40):
offering you forever.
What are you going to say?
Speaker 3 (01:04:43):
I'm going to say no, because there's some people I
want to see again.
And I can't do that if I'mliving forever.
Speaker 2 (01:04:51):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (01:04:52):
What about you?
Speaker 2 (01:04:58):
While the thought of being around my children forever
would be awesome, the thoughtof living forever in our current
political climate, I don't knowI will say that I think it's
making great art already.
I think this movie is fabulous.
I think all the unfortunatecrap that's going on right now
(01:05:21):
that people are struggling with,I think that tragedy and hard
times are great inspiration forartists, and I think films like
this and the times we're in arejust going to inspire so much
more wonderful art and I can'twait to see it all.
Speaker 3 (01:05:35):
Yes, I just I want the bad times to end, and if art
has to end because of that, sobe it very true very true, very
true.
Speaker 2 (01:05:48):
But what's crazy, too , though, that's true.
What's crazy, too, though, is,like I told you to me, it makes
me feel like I have to speak toit, don't you like?
As an artist, like I told you,I never wanted to.
I would go the furthest, like Iwould do it in essays, but like
(01:06:09):
not in stories.
I would go the furthest awayfrom this because it's emotional
labor and it's heavy.
And who wants to talk aboutthese heavy topics?
yeah but then, when stuff startshappening, you get fired up and
then you're like okay, yeah,now you want to silence my
community.
Let me get louder.
Speaker 3 (01:06:29):
Taking away our museum Like dang.
Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
Exactly that's crazy.
Like that's crazy.
We're not.
I don't know what delusionthey're under, but nobody's
going backwards.
Speaker 3 (01:06:42):
I went to a fight backwards.
I was excited, like I hadn'teven gotten down to see
African-American museum yet andI was excited that they were
going to do Latinx museum likean Asian-American museum, like
these are history that I want toknow, and like I want to see,
and like why are we hiding this?
This is our country, what arewe?
(01:07:03):
What are they?
What are people afraid of?
Um, I don't understand that atall.
Speaker 2 (01:07:09):
I don't think it's that they're afraid.
I think it's that a they don'twant their flaws being shown to
the world.
They want to expose a myth ofwhat America is instead of the
American reality.
And.
B I think it's easier tojustify doing negative things to
people when you try to hidetheir humanity.
Speaker 3 (01:07:32):
Oh, for sure.
Speaker 2 (01:07:35):
So I think part of that is just part of
dehumanization too.
I'm trying to dehumanize people.
I don't think.
If you can see their full scopeof their humanity, their
history, their everything, thenit makes it harder to justify
some of your behaviors.
And did you hear about thesechildren, American citizen
children, getting deported?
Now Editing JD here In thispart I'm talking about some news
(01:07:58):
footage I saw that talked aboutchildren who were born on
American soil but whose parentswere undocumented, and the
children were basically deportedwith their parents.
These American citizen children.
Terrible times.
Speaker 3 (01:08:18):
The movie encapsules that, so it's hard not to.
Speaker 2 (01:08:23):
Very true.
Speaker 3 (01:08:24):
Bring that in, because that's just a part of it
.
Speaker 2 (01:08:27):
Very true.
Speaker 3 (01:08:29):
Okay, so that is our Southern Gothic 2.0 Vampires
Episode.
If you Haven't seen SinnersHopefully we didn't spoil it too
much For you go and see itepisode.
If you haven't seen Sinnershopefully we didn't spoil it too
much for you go and see it.
If you've seen it, go and seeit again so it can continue to
break records.
Thank you for joining us againand we'll see you next time.
Speaker 2 (01:08:54):
We'll see the movie, the great movie, 10 out of 10.
Thank you, guys, for joining us.
Bye.
Speaker 4 (01:09:12):
That wraps up today's Craft Chat Chronicles with JD
Moyer.
Thanks for joining us.
If you liked the episode,please comment, subscribe and
share.
For show notes, writingworkshops and tips, head to
jdmayorcom.
That's jdmayorcom.
(01:09:32):
While you're there, join JD'smailing list for updates,
giveaways and more.
Welcome to Craft Chat Chronicles, the go-to podcast
for tips on craftingbest-selling fiction.
Here at Craft Chat Chronicles,we bring you expert interviews,
insights and tips on writing,publishing and marketing.
Join the conversation andembark on a new chapter in your
writing journey.
(00:25):
For workshops, show notes andmore information, visit
jdmayalcom.
That's jdmayalcom.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
On today's episode of Craft Chat Chronicles, we are
going to go on a writer'sjourney with good friends and
good writers.
Enjoy.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of A
Writer's Journey, and todaywe're going to be talking about
the new movie Sinners, which ispart of our Southern Gothic 2.0
discussion about vampires.
2.0 discussion about vampires.
And so the movie it's been itssecond week now, I think out,
and it's starring Michael BJordan, written and directed by
(01:12):
Ryan Coogler Always a great team, it's a great movie, and so
that'll be our discussion today.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
JD.
Vampires are your love?
All right, so so, sinners.
Takes place in 1930s,mississippi.
To give you an idea of the timeperiod, it's after rosewood and
tulsa, which were two massacreswhere a racist white mob like
burned killed these two towns.
And so and it was before,emmett till died for allegedly
(01:45):
whistling at a white woman.
So it was like a very raciallytense time in history.
And in this story, elijah,who's called Smoke, and Elias,
who's called Stack, are twinbrothers who come home to
Mississippi to open a juke joint.
What was your initial umthoughts after watching the
(02:06):
movie?
Speaker 3 (02:08):
I, I loved it so much .
I it's exactly the type ofmovie that I've been waiting for
.
Just something original.
Um, just like cool thingshappening in the movie, like the
I'll just call it the the jukejoint scene with the music that
was like one of the best.
(02:28):
We could talk about one of thebest cinema, what do you call it
?
Cinematography, whatever?
The best scenes I've ever seenin movies ever.
Um, I just love the creativityand the layers of meaning to
things and at the same time itwas funny.
I appreciate movies that haveall the different layers and it
(02:54):
means something and you have agood time.
So, yeah, I was emotionallyfulfilled as a moviegoer.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
It was like a full meal it was a great movie.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Exactly, it's like what you want to spend your
money when you go to the moviesand so oftentimes they're
lacking, and this one was not.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Love that and, like you said about the
cinematography, I love the blueskies.
Gorgeous blue skies over thecotton field.
It was beautiful.
The sunsets were gorgeous Inthe one scene that we're going
to talk about a little bit inthe club, when it was like the
roof, the roof, the roof is onfire.
You remember that shot.
It was just beautifullyexecuted and gorgeous and you
(03:43):
know there was a lot to lovevisually about it.
What was your take on thecharacters?
Speaker 3 (03:51):
um, I really liked one the diversity, I have to say
.
Um, I love movies that don'tpretend like it's just one group
of people who live in the world, like, especially, we're
talking about the MississippiDelta and I learned something I
didn't know there was like agroup of um, like a Chinese
(04:12):
community in the MississippiDelta.
Um, so like, after seeing thatI was like, oh, let me do a
little research.
And that's another thing I likeabout um, any type of cinema
and tv shows that makes me do alittle research and want to
learn a little more.
Especially it's Americanhistory and all that um Smoke
and Stack.
It's so funny.
Like I know they're bothMichael B Jordan, but like he
(04:34):
had these subtle things whereeven like, even outside of the
two different hats, I could tellwho was who, just by like their
demeanor and everything whichis this brilliant acting um
annie is my favorite, um theactress.
Anytime I see her in it andanything.
I feel like she's the actressthat like represents me, the
(04:55):
person.
Anytime I see her in anythingI'm like, yes, and I will not
try to pronounce her namebecause I'm going to butcher it
but love her um, and I like whatthey did.
Uh, what's Haley Stanfield'scharacter's name?
Um, mary, is it Mary?
Okay, I was gonna say Mary, butI was like that doesn't seem
right.
Um, with the, you know, havingblack heritage but she's passing
(05:21):
as white, um, and like stillbeing a part of the black
community.
I love those layers, um, and herrelationship with that right
yes um, and just all the like,the acting is great and just all
of the, the social commentaryand just the energy between them
(05:44):
, um, I think that the actorshad really great chemistry.
Um, and the one thing I keepforgetting, and what I also
loved about this movie thevampires, because I actually
originally wasn't going to seeit because I don't like horror,
like I don't go see any of thosethings for the most part, um,
(06:04):
but I appreciated that it wasalmost like the bee story.
You know, like they're therebut you have all this stuff
going on, all these rich layerswith smoke and stack and the
community and all of that.
Um, that I appreciated that,even though, like it's a vampire
movie, it wasn't like about thevampires in the full sense.
(06:27):
The Irish music was interesting, so, like go online and read
about that, because I was justlike, oh, okay, and there was
another like dance scene withvats, wait wait, you're getting
too far ahead, you're fine.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
So something I kept seeing online was that a lot of
people were not getting what yougot, which was mary's blackness
, because while she's whitepresenting and she's only one
eighth black, in that time theone drop rule was like a thing
and everybody kept being likewell, why was the white girl
there?
In her hometown she was black.
(07:10):
She had a black grandparent, soin her hometown, you know, she
was viewed as black.
That's why she had to leave tomarry the white guy and to start
her life.
And that's why stack kept beingrude to her at first, because
he's like it's dangerous for youto be.
You know well, he didn't sayit's dangerous for you to be.
You know well, he didn't sayit's dangerous.
But he later, you know, toldher like you know, it's not safe
for you to be here with me orwith us.
You know what I mean.
(07:30):
And it's much safer in the1930s Mississippi to be white
than to be black.
So I guess what he wanted herto do was you can pass for white
, so pass which is what peopledid back then.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
A lot of people did that yeah, if they could.
I mean you can't pass, if youcan't pass, but yeah, if they
could that's what they did,because their life was different
.
Oh the Mary being a part of thecommunity.
That also speaks to kind of howthe Black community is or what
I'm used to.
It's just like oh, you knowyour grandma was Black or
whatever.
Like you're part of thecommunity, like we come in all
(08:05):
different shades or whatever,but we know your people, so you
can come to the cookout.
You know, that's how it is.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
True when I try to compare Smoke and Annie and Mary
and Stack.
Yeah, really In this movie,because, like, initially I
(08:39):
didn't feel like Stack's lovefor Mary was as deep Because he
was like pushing her away,pushing her away.
But then we got the reasons asdeep because he was like pushing
her away, pushing her away, butthen we got the reasons as to
why he was pushing her away.
But then I also feel like wereally didn't get to see it
after that because, you know,she went out and became a
(09:03):
vampire.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
So you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
So we didn't really get to see what would have
happened once they'd had thatconfession, to know how deep
their love went, whereas I feltlike with smoke and annie, I
felt like their love and theirbond was like really, really
like deep and meaningful no, Iwas gonna say, but that's
representative of the times tooMary and Stack wouldn't have
(09:26):
been able to be together, right?
Speaker 3 (09:31):
So that's kind of showing it's like even though he
did confess his love to her,they would have never been able
to be together.
At that time.
I mean, like one, it wasillegal at that time.
I mean like one, it was illegal.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Well, technically, if they stayed in their hometown,
she would have been Black,because they knew her as Black,
so it would have been legal.
But it wouldn't have been safebecause people who didn't know
would see him with a white womanand then he could have got
Emmett Till or something.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
They would have assumed that she was a white
woman, but, yeah, so they neverwould have been able to have
that sort of deep anything.
Because of all of that, it justisn't safe.
So we can't even really show itand we're having this quiet
moment so that you know how Ifeel.
But you need, you have to goback to your world and I got to
(10:19):
stay in mind type of thing,whereas with smoke and annie
they're part of the samecommunity, even though he left a
while that, so they're able toexplore that deeper relationship
(12:04):
.
What did you think?
That interracial relationship,particularly with the white
(12:26):
woman?
Um, bringing the community orthe black man down, that's
initially what I saw.
Them, because she's the onethat you know gets turned first
and brings all of that into theplace, um, and kills him, um, so
that's what?
Uh, that was my initial goaltoo is like, oh, you know, with
(12:47):
with the white girls, there'sgoing to be doom.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
So a lot of people online were interpreting in that
same way too um, they weretalking about be careful, can
you invite to the picnic, andstuff like that.
And then some people were like,referring to it as like the
tragic mulatto um trope.
And then some people were um,comparing her to like the um
(13:12):
white savior trope, because youknow.
It's like oh, you guys have themoney problem, I can fix this,
you know.
So what if smoke said don't goout there and invite them people
in, because you know?
some people were interpreting itthat way, and somebody said
something that I found reallyinteresting.
Um, they said that the Klan wasthe Republicans and that the
(13:39):
vampires were the Democrats.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
Oh, that is interesting, and I'm not mad at
it.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
I hope that's not true, but that certainly gave me
food for thought, I mean that'sa whole thing, but I see where
they're coming from.
It was definitely food forthought.
I was like I never I mean,that's a take I wouldn't have
come to on my own- Me either.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
But wow, yeah, you could do a whole thesis on that,
but what did?
What was your initial thoughtson Mary in that relationship?
Speaker 2 (14:18):
um, famous yours I.
I did think he loved her.
I didn't initially becauseinitially when he kept pushing
her away I thought he waspushing her away because he just
didn't like her.
But then when he opened up toher in the club, yeah, you know,
then I could see okay.
So this is why you're pushingher away, because you know, know
, you want her to be okay andthis isn't the time for y'all's
(14:40):
romance, like literally.
So I saw her as wanting to dothe right thing.
I saw her as beingwell-intentioned, intentioned.
I didn't like that and I knowhe invited it because Stack's
(15:02):
character, where he's differentthan Smoke, was like how Smoke
was empowering the little girland teaching her the little girl
he has to wash his truck andteaching her how to negotiate
for more money and stuff likethat.
And listening to Annie andsupporting Annie and you know
what I mean.
Like respecting black women,stacked it, a lot of the
opposite of that, like the wayhe was talking to the one man's
(15:24):
wife in the cotton field andstuff like that.
You know what I mean.
Oh, yeah, he was charismatic,but he was also super
disrespectful, you know, know asa character and like in the
club, when he said somethinglike I'll get one of these B
words to drag you out, and thenshe was like you taught me how
to fight, I'll beat every one ofthese B's in here.
(15:48):
I didn't like her disrespectingevery Black woman in the club or
every woman in general, becausethat wasn't really cool.
But his personality being whatit is, it would make sense that,
she being his love interest, itwould be the woman who would,
because if you were the womanwho would be offended by him
speaking about the women thatway, or would correct it, or
even if you didn't correct it,at least not feed into it then
(16:08):
you're not the kind of womanthat would probably date a guy
like him.
So I understood it for hercharacterization.
I thought she had some bars,though she was a great rapper.
Uh, from the you going, you canrob trains and can't you steal
this, you know, like if you sawthe movie, you know?
And then, um, even in the traintracks, with the first thing
(16:29):
she said at the train station tohim oh, what was it?
Oh, yeah, yeah she was like youtold me you love me.
And then he was like I alsotold you to stay the hell away
from me.
And then she was like, yeah,but then you Mm-hmm, mm-hmm,
yeah, you did something so good,I thought you changed your mind
or whatever so hard.
(16:50):
I thought you changed your mindand then I was like, okay, this
is where we are.
I was getting too hot.
How do you want it?
Vibes?
Speaker 3 (17:07):
what goes through that um intermixing of the past,
present and future with themusic, um.
But there's one character weshould also talk about, future
Boy.
He's kind of the thread ofeverything.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
I loved him.
His talent was otherworldly.
I found a lot of I.
I found it interesting thechurch, um, how his dad
(17:46):
basically was trying to make himchoose, like he literally took
his guitar and had it hidden inthe church or whatever, and dad,
and then at the end of themovie, his dad's like give me
the guitar and the guitarliterally is what saved his life
.
You know what I mean.
So he wasn't trying to let itgo and again, his talent was
(18:08):
over, was otherworldly.
That was like a gift from Godtype of voice, super, super
talented.
So it almost seemed sinful totry to deny him a gift given to
him by something other.
You know what I mean, somethingother than yourself.
So, yeah, I don't know, like Isaid, sammy did really good.
(18:29):
It was his first movie and Iwouldn't have known that, having
watched it, because heperformed fabulously, learned
how to play guitar for the movie.
I didn't know that.
Yeah, they said he learned howin like three months.
And, um, they said like one day, on the set, his hand cramped
because they literally had himpracticing like five hours to
sound like he'd been playing fora long time uh-huh, wow, that's
(18:53):
amazing.
I love that um just, I loved himin perlene.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
That was cute, yes, really I feel bad for her
husband now I was like I waswondering, please her husband
like what he's not here hewasn't preacher boy that night,
was he?
Speaker 2 (19:15):
and they're pushing buttons and what that?
Speaker 3 (19:19):
all that he learned about earlier that day.
Yes, so funny because when theywere in the car and zach was
telling him about the the buttonthe first time I saw it, I kind
of missed that conversation.
I was like I don't know, maybeI was like thinking or something
at the same time.
But when I saw it the secondtime I was like, oh, but at the
(19:40):
same time, yes, tell him theright things to do every man in
America watching this movieexactly so.
Thank you, ryan Coogler, forthat.
Thank you, ryan Coogler.
But yeah, and I love how, inthe end, with the extra scenes,
(20:06):
how it continues with hischaracter, to my understanding
is that the very, very end.
That's him like he has passedon his natural life and he's in
the church since he turned themdown.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Read it that way.
That was the one scene in themovie I didn't understand,
because I was like why is heyoung again?
Yeah, that's why I thought, whyI like the song he's playing
the guitar.
I was like maybe this was justan outtake they couldn't find
room for, so they just tacked iton there.
But maybe that one just flewover my head and I dismissed
(20:45):
that one because I was like oh,I interpreted like.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
At first I was like I thought the same thing as you
oh, this is weird.
Why is he young again?
But then I'm like, oh, heprobably died, and like this is
the representation of that.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
But that makes more sense than what I was thinking.
The mid-credit scene was great.
I liked that, I liked.
To me that was like the heartof the movie, that scene, and it
humanized Stack's character alot.
And you know, some people whowere expecting a straight horror
(21:22):
movie didn't like it as muchbecause they felt like it took
some of the teeth out of thevampire at the end where he was
saying like that was the bestnight of my life before the sun
went down.
Last time I saw the sun, lasttime I got to meet my brother
and all that good stuff.
But to me it humanized him.
My prediction for the sequel,if they do it, is the vampire
hunters and Stack.
(21:42):
But since we left at the end itlooks like we're in the 90s.
Then I'm guessing it wouldprobably be like the descendants
or the children or grands ofthose original hunters.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
that's my guess that was the one group I wanted to
see again.
So, yeah, I would love that,because they show up and they
don't come back yeah, because Ididn't think I mean to me.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
I didn't think they put it there for no reason, but
maybe I'm wrong, but that was myguess and I would like that as
a sequel yeah, I thought I reador heard some rumblings about a
potential sequel, so that's agood idea.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
So putting that out in the ethos.
Um the vampires, right well, Ikeep forgetting.
Honestly, I keep forgettingabout the vampires because
everything else is so good but,yes, the vampires.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
I like that Remnick was Irish.
Remnick, is that how you say it?
I think it's Remnick.
I like that he was Irishbecause they were also colonized
by Europe and I thought thatwas an excellent ploy.
When he comes to the clubAlthough true, when he's
(22:59):
basically like you know thisplace that you think you bought
from these people they're clanmembers.
They're planning on coming backand killing you after they took
your money.
Basically, you were never goingto survive this.
I'm going to let you free.
You could live forever, Join myclub.
I thought that was a compellingargument Because if you're
(23:23):
living in hell already, it mightbe tempting to make a deal with
the devil, Like, literally,slavery's ended, but most of
them are still sharecropping tosurvive and then they're being
paid in wooden nickels andplantation dollars.
You can't build generationalwealth with that, because it's
not even of value outside ofthat little city or town or the
stores that have agreed to takeit because they have deals with
the plantation owners.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
So you can't build generational wealth.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
You can't pass anything down.
They're not really attemptingto give you any property
ownership because even in thiscase, where the guys had the
money, they're planning ontaking it.
You know, much like Tulsa andRosewood when people built
wealth and the communities weredestroyed by hate.
At that time it was hard tobuild, it was hard to achieve
because literally society waspushing back against you and
(24:07):
trying to cut you off at theknees before you had the
opportunity.
So that would definitely havebeen a tempting argument for me.
I don't know about you.
How about you?
Would you have don fangs?
I?
Speaker 3 (24:18):
don't know I.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I honestly don't know I I might have done things and
showed up at some clan rallies.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
Well, well time, um, but you said something, oh,
about the irish thing.
I loved it because there is ahistory of the irish and african
americans in this country thatgets no like nobody really talks
about, and I remember, likeseeing and reading somewhere
(24:47):
that up to like 38 percent ofafrican americans have irish
lineage.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
I do not a lot not enough to talk about I do I not
a lot.
Not enough to talk about.
I'm my ancestry.
Not enough to talk about.
Like one percent or something.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
Yeah, yeah, teeny tiny percentage well then, maybe
you're a part of that number.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
I don't know A teeny tiny percentage, like a
hangnail's worth.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
But there is that history there, so that's one of
the reasons why I liked it, thatlayer.
But now you've got me thinking.
Would I have taken that to you?
Speaker 2 (25:30):
But to me it not only humanized the villain from a
writer's perspective, becausehe's been oppressed and he's,
but it also to me like it was ametaphor of like assimilation.
And a metaphor of likecolonization too, because, like
I was colonized, now I'm thecolonizer because I'm telling
you to join me and I think I'msaving you.
(25:50):
So I'm white, savioring it up.
I'm now I'm the colonizerbecause I'm telling you to join
me.
I think I'm saving you, I'msaving you from those evils.
Join me.
I just have to kill you first,then you die.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
I've saved you.
It's like you end upassimilating and everything that
you were goes away, exactly,exactly.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
I think that's kind of what why I like the last
scene, because he was like um,basically stack was saying that
he felt the freest that day.
Last day he saw the sun, lastday he was with his brother.
So that means that since he'sbeen a vampire for these
whatever 80, 100 or how manyyears it was- right you haven't
really felt free.
You've been, you know, trappedby the night and we know they're
(26:34):
vampire hunters.
So if I had to guess there wasa sequel, you had to do some
running over the years.
You know, some running and somefighting you have to hide um
yeah, can't be out during theday exactly.
But I thought that was superinteresting because, like the
cultural appropriation of it all, when it's like I love your
music, I love your art, you knowyou're, I'll have your stories,
(26:58):
he says to Sammy, you'll havemine, but who cares that Sammy
doesn't consent.
Now let me drown you right hereso that we can be a part of
each other.
It was really weird.
But, um, how do you see, or didyou see, that the film echoing
those things, or was that meoverthinking again, because I
(27:20):
overthink echoing which things,the cultural appropriation and
assimilation and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
I saw it.
Yeah, that's what I thought.
Yeah, that's what the vampireswere symbolizing.
I thought that's what theirsymbolization was.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
True, but, like I said, I thought it was an
interesting choice to use Irish,specifically because they've
been colonized too.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
It's the perfect choice.
They've been colonized too.
It's the perfect choice.
Um, they've been colonized too.
So, like he understands thatpart, and then also like I was
saying that history that ourcultures have in this country um
.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
So I was just like yeah that's like the perfect
choice really true, and I lovedthat in the very first scene,
when he's running and he's onfire which fire?
Daytime maybe, because I readhorror in my mind.
I'm thinking vampire.
Hello yeah, people, god blessthem.
We're victims of their ownwhite supremacy and racism.
(28:22):
Because they let him in, thisstranger.
He's offering money andclaiming Indians are chasing him
.
So they let him in because youknow they're thinking poor white
guy chased by Indians, claimingIndians are chasing him.
So they let him in because youknow they're thinking poor white
guy chased by Indians.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
Then, excuse me, native Americans I'm sorry, I'm
always, um, you know, want touse the politically correct in
the correct terms but, um, likeI said, oh sorry, I was gonna
say it depends on who you askwith that, because some people
in that culture don't actuallylike Native American, so but I
mean that's the whole thing.
I know people that don't likeAfrican American.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
They like just call me black, so that's all yeah, I
had a friend named Madonna whoused to call herself Indian.
She lived on a plantation, wasNative American or Indian or
whatever preferred to be called.
But I just don't want to offendanybody, but you know what I
mean.
But it was just interesting tome that he goes to their house
and he can see the clan garbover their shoulder, so he goes
(29:11):
in with the narrative theybelieve and then they let him in
and then the guys come, thehunters come to the door who are
of native american or indiandescent, and they're basically
like there's a dangerous guy inthere, you're in danger, let me
help.
And she's like no, now shebasically pulls as the shotgun
to their face and this, that,that and the third, and she's,
(29:32):
just because of her beliefs,thinks they're the bad guys.
And I just, I love that theIndians or Native Americans did
not push it.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
I love that they were like OK, well, sounds about
right, but I love that scenebecause it's so indicative of
everything that's happeningright now or that happens, what
happening and happened when it.
When you talk about theelection and stuff, you have
people trying to warn otherpeople like this is what's
(30:05):
actually going to happen.
There's danger here and peoplenot listening because of their
beliefs.
And right now you know thingshave happened and it's like, oh,
we tried to tell you.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
I don't think it was that they didn't listen.
I think it was that they didn'tthink they'd be a victim of it.
I think it was that theythought, well, this is the other
person's problem, this won'taffect me.
But if my groceries go down,yay.
That they thought, well, thisis the other person's problem,
this won't affect me.
But if my groceries would godown, yay.
And then when it, you know,ended up in them losing jobs and
the groceries not going downand prices and inflation
actually going up, then they'relike, oh oh, oh, oh, shit, this
(30:40):
is bad, this isn't what Iexpected.
But I think, since the personhad it but I think because he
had a first term, I don't thinkit was that they don't know,
because we've seen it before Ithink it was that they didn't
care if they didn't feel like itaffected them personally.
That's my take.
(31:02):
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe therewere some who didn't know, but I
just find that hard to believe,since we had four years of it
prior.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
A mix of both.
But yeah, but that scene itjust really did.
That's what I felt of afterwatching that scene.
It's just like I'm trying totell you, I'm trying to help you
and, yeah, because of yourthought processes, you're not
listening to me.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
just because I'm, I look a certain way right, which
happens, um, I remember being inclasses in college, um,
undergrad, and there was thisgirl who had a thick philly
accent but was freakingbrilliant and she would talk in
class and they would act likeshe wasn't saying anything or
(31:49):
like they didn't get it untillike a white person would second
what she said.
And then, all of a sudden, itwas correct and I'm like hello,
she's been right the whole time.
You're so into your bias abouthow she looks and how she speaks
that you couldn't really seethe fact she was conveying.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
So yeah, that part I liked.
What were you thinking aboutyour thought process on the
store owners, the Chinese storeowners?
Speaker 3 (32:16):
um.
Their daughter is hilarious,even though she said nothing,
but she said a lot, her likedemeanor um.
But like I said earlier, I thinkit's like I didn't know that
there were like chinesecommunities in the south um so
that was interesting and thatand it took the second time I
(32:39):
saw the movie that there was awhite store and a black store,
because I remember the firsttime I saw it I was like, well,
why is the wife over there?
And then, like the second time,I realized, oh, that's the store
for the white people, and thenthe other stores black people,
and it, um, I mean, it's anotherinteresting layer of like, as a
(33:01):
and talking about recent timesas well um, in a sense, in terms
of owning stores, you know,black person probably couldn't
have owned a storefront in thatarea.
Um, right, and yet you have thechinese couple who have two,
and the white people do buythings from them, whereas if
(33:23):
there was a black store there,the white people wouldn't buy
anything from them.
Um, so those those like racialdynamics that are interesting,
um, and then you know, you canget into, like the what is it?
In my mind?
I'm saying perfect minority.
That's not what it is modelminority, yeah, the model
(33:44):
minority, um those sorts ofdiscussions and that sort of
thing, so that they can havethat other love that and that.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
um, when, like you, did the research after the film
and that actually was true atthat time a lot of Chinese
people came over to work on therailroads and then they were
able to get loans and grants andstuff after that that we
wouldn't have been able to get.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
So they were able to to be in this position Exactly.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
So they were able to be in those positions exactly so
they were able to be in thosepositions.
You know what I mean and youknow, um, I thought it was also
interesting.
I think the husband had a pureinvolvement and view with the
community.
I felt like his bond with thebrothers seemed genuine, like
the friendship with smoke seemedlike real.
Yeah, and then, like when thestuff hit the fan, it was the
wife who was like we gotta go,we ain't sign up for this.
But he wasn't like trying tocut and run, you know what I
mean, but it was the wife andthen she sent him outside yeah,
(34:43):
she sent him outside to beturned.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
I think he might did that, were they in the service
together.
I don't know if I made that upor not.
Um, I don't remember.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
I saw the movie twice , as you know, but I don't
remember that.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
I thought maybe that's why they had such a
strong bond too, because maybethey were in the service
together, but I don't know.
I could have just made that upin my head.
Um, yeah, I always wonderedthat too.
Why did she send him outside?
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Because she saw stuff hitting the fan and then she
was like get the car, we're notgoing.
We came here basically to hostthe party and to this, that and
the third, but not for the otherstuff.
So it was like she was an allyas long as she was profiting off
the community, and then, assoon as she couldn't, when the
stuff hit the fan, she was likeit's time to cut and run, so she
(35:30):
sent her husband out there tobe turned into a vampire.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
Basically timing, because, like everybody else had
already left, something'sobviously wrong.
Right, there's nobody else outfront until you just send him
out there by himself, like to me.
That was.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
To me, that was just like let's just stay here
together, um right, um, butspeaking of, and then she was
the one who called the vampiresin exactly I couldn't totally be
mad at her because they didthreaten her daughter.
So I can understand wanting tothrow hands at that point,
wanting to fight it out.
I can understand it.
But I could not understandputting my anger above the
(36:12):
safety of everyone around me.
You know what I mean.
So it was like you were alignedwith the community as long as
you were profiting off thecommunity and then at the end
it's like my rage is moreimportant than your actual lives
.
Because while they were tryingto make steaks and stuff.
They weren't prepared yet.
They were trying to cover hermouth.
She bit the man's hand andcalled him inside.
But they were different andbetter than me, because when she
(36:33):
started acting irate and actinglike she wanted to scream, I
would have threw her butt outthere to them so I could live
till sunrise.
I'm like, look, you sent yourhusband out there, go be with
him go be with your husband.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
My whole thing exactly was like after that all
played out like I was like what?
Speaker 2 (36:52):
WTF.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
But then, like, like the logic, like I understand as
a I'm not a mother, but like asa mother wanting to protect your
child, but like, logically,would they have been able to get
to her?
Like the sun came up, like fiveminutes later.
You know, like all that kind ofstuff.
I'm just like, was it necessary?
Um, and then she ends up dyinglike two seconds late.
(37:14):
Like what?
Like what are we doing?
Um, exactly, so it's okay foryou.
Like just like you were saying,it's just like your
self-interest are more importantthan anybody else's life in
this room, when everybody elseis like no but exactly you take
it upon yourself to make thedecision for everyone else,
(37:35):
right?
And so, yeah, I felt a wayabout that yep, yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Well, I, I, like I said I I got the feeling of
wanting to do that.
You know know what I mean.
I can understand that, yeah,any mother would have had that
feeling of wanting to, but, yeah, they should have pushed her
out the barn door.
Look, or knocked her out orsomething you know that poor
(38:03):
drunk guy that got thrown out.
She should have been beside him.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
Oh my God, he's not even turned, he just passed out.
He took his ass off.
She should have been beside him.
Oh my God, he's not even turned.
He just passed out, he took hisass off excuse me but that was
(38:28):
hysterical.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
And when the woman's husband walks back up, now
vampire, but she doesn't know itand the other vampire is just
killing this man, her husband'sjust all calm.
Got the car ready, babe, you'reready to go.
She's like the other vampireright across from killing
somebody, she's.
She's like, basically like hehas no reaction to it.
(38:52):
She's a, and he's like, well,why don't you just invite me?
And like we can get our stufftogether.
That was funny.
Those are the moments.
I really loved and DelroyLindo's character.
I loved him from when he was inthe car and he's telling that
story and he's putting all thisemotion in it and then he turns
(39:14):
the emotion into like a rhythm,the blues that was beautiful to
the.
I shat myself.
He was priceless.
He was great.
Every character was great.
He was really great.
I thought michael b didfabulous.
You couldn't even like he.
(39:37):
He very much played it like twodifferent people.
He did a great job with that.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
He did a wonderful job.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
And did you see the meme where they were like?
This is what I mean when I sayI want a pair of Jordans.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
Oh, I didn't see that , but yeah, did we miss anybody?
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Did we discuss them all?
Speaker 3 (40:00):
We touched on the main characters.
I don't know his name, but theguy that was from Ballers, the
tall guy, have you seen the showBallers?
He was the one that was in that.
They got from the field andstacked with.
Oh, okay, he was really goodtoo, he's hilarious, and after
(40:24):
he got turned and tried to comeback in, that scene was just
hilarious.
It got to the point where it wasjust like what is he even
talking about?
All this random stuff?
You know, something's wrongbecause he's just randomly
saying a whole bunch of stuff.
And those are the the momentsin this movie that I really
(40:45):
enjoyed.
Um, because sometimes, you know, horror movies can be so
serious and stuff or they can betoo campy.
Um, but this one, like had areally great mix of all those
things it did and I love thesocial commentary like,
especially like, rem mick Ithink it's remick from what I
(41:06):
remember, yeah the vampire guy.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
I especially loved what he represented because he
wasn't racist.
Like I said, he thought he wasdoing the right thing.
He just, you know, was going tokill you.
First.
He become a vampire.
He thought he was saving youfor the rapist from the racist
by killing you.
You know what I mean, so Iliked that.
That was very interesting.
That made him a more compellingvillain.
Just to be the straight up, I'ma bad guy thing.
(41:30):
That was completely here forthe scene in the morning when
the oh, oh, the scene whereSammy got the unholy baptism and
was about to die and savedhimself with the guitar.
What were your thoughts on thatpart?
Speaker 3 (41:51):
yeah, I mean we should also circle back to the,
the actual, uh, the music part.
Oh, yeah, yeah, it was funnybecause I didn't realize that
his guitar had a metal part toit.
I don't know if Argyle Tartguitars are like that, so when
it stuck in Remick's head I wasjust sitting there laughing.
(42:15):
I was like what is that?
He's just standing theretalking.
But it's funny that the thingthat the father was saying you
know, we'll bring the devil andthat kind of stuff is what saved
his life.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
His music yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
It's like at the same time it brought the devil, but
then you could try and kill thedevil with it too.
I don't.
I didn't understand, though,because after he hit him with it
, there was like smoke orsomething coming out of his head
yeah, because I think it wassupposed to be silver.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
You know vampire lore and silver oh that one I didn't
know.
Speaker 3 (42:56):
okay, yeah, didn't know that because I was like why
is there?
Because I was like Is there aholy water somewhere?
It's over, okay.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
When the guy called him tried to drown him.
That's what made the unholybaptism referenced for anybody
who didn't see the movie.
But yeah, I loved it.
I loved the vampires when theywere all outside getting down,
getting it like Thriller dancing.
It was so good it was happening.
Speaker 3 (43:24):
It the vampires when they were all outside getting
down, getting it like Thrillerdancing.
It was fun.
That was like a fun that's whatI was thinking of like the
Thriller moment to the Irishmusic.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
And, to be honest, I liked that music.
Then, when they first came tothe door picking poor Robin
clean, I was not really here forthat song.
It was a little odd.
It was very odd, yeah, butafterwards when they got outside
and everybody was dancing andstuff, they were jamming I'm
like I was here for it.
I was patting my foot, ofcourse.
(43:57):
It was cool.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
Um, um so, just in terms of movies in general, I
hope.
Oh, that's another thing thatdid you.
You want to talk about the, thescandal, or is it really?
but scandal but the Varietyarticle that came out first
(44:25):
weekend with the headline wasbasically made it seem like okay
, like Sinners is doing well,but it's going to take a long
time for them to make the moneyback for the movie.
So it was kind of downing themovie when it was actually
having a great weekend.
Um, right, and I loved thatcelebrities actually push back
(44:52):
on them like, um I think benstiller was the main one um,
patrick schwarzenegger saidsomething.
It's just like these are thethis like when we talk about
allies, this is what you do,because obviously there was
hypocrisy in that headline andthat article because someone
(45:13):
posted similar budget movie.
Was it Once Upon a Time inHollywood?
Tarantino movie had a similarbudget, same type of deal, made
less money in its openingweekend, but got this praise
from the very same publication.
Um, and so people put those twothings together and it's just
(45:35):
like, okay, well, the movie withthe white cast, oh so, great
weekend, or whatever.
But then the movie with theblack cast that made a little
more money, oh well, you know,it's going to take them so long
to get the money back.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
Blah, blah, blah and, mind you, that was like 45 or
46 million opening weekend andthat was before the box office
had closed on sunday when theywere paid, and that was, mind
you, just in the us when theymade that comment.
But basically it was like like,yeah, I had a good weekend, but
who knows, like you said, howlong it's going to take them to
pay it back or something to thateffect, whereas with the other
(46:08):
film it was like, oh, they'reoff to a great start, because
opening weekend, really Sunday,not even closed out, and that
was just domestically.
It's still going to be playingeverywhere else too and it's in
less theaters than a lot of.
Exactly, and they said it waslike the highest grossing non-IP
(46:29):
movie since before COVID, since2019.
So far in opening week, well,the highest grossing opening
weekend since 2019.
So, and then this week, thefollowing weekend basically
usually movies have a drop afteropening weekend and they said
it had a much smaller drop thannormal movies typically do.
(46:52):
Yeah, in the second week, andalready.
Speaker 3 (46:55):
They're at like $120 million domestically.
I think I read it was like $160million worldwide right now,
which means that they're goingto make back the money in a
shorter amount of time than thepublication was trying to make
it seem, and it's a bright light.
I'll just say to HollywoodPeople want to see original
(47:16):
things, they want to see good,original movies.
Everyone's kind of tired outwith the IP.
They're not even good anymoreLike they used to be.
So, yeah, hopefully they'llTake a real clue from it.
I did read an article thatHollywood always ends up Taking
(47:37):
the wrong message From thingsLike with Barbie.
The message was let's make morelike movies about toys instead
of let's make more female ledempower movies.
Um, true so, and the diversity.
I had originally read that, um,some publication was playing
(48:00):
down the diversity of theaudience that has come to see
Sinners, or saying that, oh, youknow, if they think more about
something, about like wideningtheir audience, maybe it'll do
better.
But then people were like.
The audience that I went to wassuper diverse, like everyone
(48:21):
was there and where I was, itwas predominantly white.
Speaker 2 (48:24):
Don't get me wrong.
Black people were thererepresenting, but the side of
town I live on has a lot morewhite people and they were all
in the theater with me trying tomake you vampire, so it's just
like everybody is going to seethis movie.
Speaker 3 (48:40):
It's not just because a cast is predominantly black
doesn't mean that only Blackpeople are going to see the
movie.
Speaker 2 (48:47):
Exactly.
And the brilliant thing he did,ryan, was he came in the gate
with he did Fruitvale Station,like his first one, which was
really good.
But he came in the gate withlike the IP things that we love,
like Black Panther, wakanda,forever, Creed, which is from
the Rocky franchise, and hebuilt up that audience with
(49:09):
those before he stepped out withhis own original content and
stuff and his deal was awesome.
Bro, we should all have hisagent because they basically in
20 or 25 years they have to givehim back the rights to the
movie so it stays in his family.
And on top of that he gets paid.
(49:30):
Before they recoup for themovie, before they recoup what
they spent to make the movie, hegets paid.
He gets paid a percentage offthe door of their sales from day
one and he gets paid gross offof the gross sales, not the net.
So his agent did that thing andthat's been getting a lot of
headlines too, because peoplewere like reporting it, like it
(49:53):
was a bad thing, like they werelike well, hollywood shaking
because of the deal he got anddah, dah, dah, dah, dah, and
other directors have had thosetype of deals.
Speaker 3 (50:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:03):
Yeah, usually it's the big name, the powerhouse
directors that are bringing inthat kind of money.
But, like I saw this interviewWith them, exactly I saw this
interview with him where it feltto me like the woman was almost
saying like his deal was anegative, like her tone to him
was almost like, you know, likehe'd done something wrong.
And I thought his response wasbrilliant because he was like
(50:25):
I'm under 40 and my films havegrossed over 6 billion.
And then he was like exactly.
And then he was like there was,you know, nothing wrong with me
wanting to keep the contentthat I wrote, that created, that
I created, you know, in myfamily, basically.
And then he was like like andother directors have had similar
(50:46):
types of deals.
And then she was like well, ifother people had this deal, why
is it making such a big dealabout you having it?
And he was like I have my ideas.
And then she was like well,what are they?
And he just laughed.
And when he laughed, we allknew exactly what he was talking
about.
He didn't have to say it, weknew exactly what he was talking
about.
You didn't have to say it, weknew exactly what he was talking
about.
Ask that question, geez, yeahbut it was not only the asking,
(51:07):
like I said, it was the tone inthe asking to me felt like
almost like she didn't feel hedeserved it you know what I mean
.
Speaker 3 (51:13):
Like, yeah, just from black panther and wakanda, like
forever, those alone, exactly,you know?
Um, so it's just like y'allthey're acting like he just
joined, like he just showed up,and it's like no, he's been
exactly many years andeverything he's done has hit it.
So what is the?
Speaker 2 (51:35):
problem, exactly, it's weird and honestly, I
respect his pen so much that I'dlikely go see everything,
anything with his name attached,just because exactly he's shown
me that what has his nameattached is going to give me
quality and a good experiencewith the movies right and that's
why people show up to the movieexactly and spend their
hard-earned money exactly.
Speaker 3 (51:57):
hollywood keeps whining about people not going
to the movies Y'all not puttingout quality, that's true.
Speaker 2 (52:05):
All right, I'll come out the closet.
I wasn't going to tell you, butI saw it three times In the
theater.
Speaker 3 (52:14):
Look at it If the industry doesn't take a huge
hint from this.
It's lost, because this is whaty'all need to be doing.
Speaker 2 (52:27):
This is what people want to see True, the other
controversy that I read about inconnection with this film was
that a lot of or I won't say alot because I don't know that
it's a lot, but some Latino andLatina creators were people,
were on the Internet upsetbecause, while there was
diversity and representation,they didn't see themselves
(52:47):
repped in this, and I found thatinteresting on a couple of
fronts.
Number one if you saw WakandaForever, there was a lot of rep
in the Latino and Latinacommunity Right.
And number two, that wasn't thestory he was telling this time.
When I saw Crazy Rich Asians,when I saw Selena, when I saw a
(53:14):
lot of different stories thatpeople told that were freaking,
fabulous and fantastic abouttheir culture every film doesn't
have to include other culturesif that's not the story you're
telling this time.
While I love diversity and Ilove rep, when I see it, it's
not always fitting.
If I'm writing a story about myfamily, for example, if it's
about my family, then it wouldlook like the people in my
(53:35):
family.
If I'm writing a story that'sabout the broader world, of
course you know more people fromthe broader world be included,
so I felt like that was kind ofmisplaced.
I think, though, maybe becausethere was so much rep in the
last film, they probably went inexcited, thinking that they
would have the same experiencethis time, and this time it was
a different story.
(53:55):
So maybe that's where thedisappointment came from.
Plus, right now they're underfire with everything going on
politically too, so maybe theykind of needed a bit of a
pick-me-up and they were likethinking this was going to be it
and they were disappointed.
Speaker 3 (54:08):
I mean, like looks like you were saying not
everyone is going to be ineverything right.
But I do understand like okay,there's a lot of representation
in this movie and it's notthere's kind of like the one
group that's not in.
But at the same time like Imean I don't know, but what is
the history of the latinoculture, latino cultures in that
(54:32):
area?
Speaker 2 (54:33):
that's true, because in that area, in that time, we
don't know how many were there,or if they weren't or not like.
That's true.
Speaker 3 (54:39):
That's true.
We do know there were Blackcommunities.
I've learned that there was aChinese community, the Native
American communities were there,the white people were, but I
don't know.
I could be speaking out ofpocket.
Speaker 2 (54:57):
And I did like I have a second and I did like that
they had the Chineserepresentation in this and I
liked that they were representedas the store owners because,
let's be honest, there's a lotof that in the Black community,
where there's a lot of Asian orArab or Middle Eastern store
owners in our communities.
(55:17):
So it was nice to see that.
And I also liked theconversation on like allyship or
performative allyship that ithas people having, because
that's a thing.
Speaker 3 (55:34):
So I mean, this is what I love about film and what
I love about being a storyteller, because this is exactly why I
wanted to be a writer.
You can reflect all of this intheir stories.
And then letting in vampiresand what that represents and all
those kind of things.
So you start thinking aboutyour own allyship as a person,
(56:11):
allyship as a community, and tome, that's what storytelling is
about.
For me, that's why I got intoit.
Kudos to Ranko.
Storytelling is about, for me,that's why I got into it.
Speaker 2 (56:23):
Who knows to write the case that went to the
supreme court to shoot downaffirmative action.
Speaker 3 (56:29):
The recent one yeah yes, and a part of that is
particularly when you talk aboutimmigrants not understanding
the history of the cultureyou're coming into Right, and
that makes it even sadder.
Speaker 2 (56:48):
Right Because, as some, because it's white
supremacists propped you up toshoot down a program that
benefited you.
Speaker 3 (56:57):
That benefited you and you think you're knocking
down particularly black people,right, um?
But then it was also thiscommunity is the reason you're
allowed into the country, right?
Like that whole history ofblack people fighting for the,
for chinese people, um, to beable to come back into the
(57:20):
united states.
Speaker 2 (57:21):
I don't remember all the names of the I don't
remember if the particularpeople I was talking about in
that case were chinese or not.
Speaker 3 (57:27):
I just remember they were asian I remember correctly,
I think they were korean, butI'm just saying like because of
that, that also allowed otherasian people to come in true.
Speaker 2 (57:37):
And then like I think of, like the tawana brawley
case, because I'm that old whenshe was in a store shopping and
the Asian store owner shot herfor like some orange juice, and
so then it was like all thischaos in the newspapers and
stuff.
Speaker 3 (58:04):
So I think some of that and, like I've read about
this um, in that area, um, asthe the communities were trying
to rebuild and build unitybetween each other, a lot of the
korean immigrant communitydidn't know the history of the
oppression of black people inthe us and then, learning that
history, they started tounderstand why certain things
were happening.
And and it wasn't just I don'tlike you until I'm doing this
thing to you, it's this wholesystem of things.
Speaker 2 (58:27):
So that's why I was saying about like we all need to
like we need to learn abouteach other Understand what's
really good, and I wasn'tbringing up those other
situations to like disparageanybody of the Asian background
or any Korean Chinese anybody.
I was bringing it up really tosay that there's like a thick,
complicated, layered historybetween cultures that if you
(58:51):
read newspapers and historybooks you can track.
And so I think for thosereasons and because the story he
wrote and where it was at,these were the people in those
locations, and because the storyhe wrote and where it was at,
these were the people in thoselocations, I think those are the
reasons that, maybe why he wasspeaking to this in this film.
Speaker 3 (59:08):
You know what I mean.
Yeah, that's what the focus was.
Speaker 2 (59:10):
Yeah, yeah.
But I'm saying I'm trying toprobably very poorly for the
people who were like upsetbecause they didn't see
themselves in it explain thatyou know, there's a history
there and a complicated historythere.
I think that's why he wanted itto go that way in this
particular film.
Then, with the location, wedon't know.
To me that's where it wascoming from.
I think they felt like itlooked a lot like From Dusk Till
(59:33):
Dawn, which was a Latinovampire movie.
I have not seen.
I take that back.
I probably saw it, but if I did, it would have been way back
when it came out.
Yeah, so I don't remember theplot enough to know if it was
like a, you know an echo of that, because we're all inspired by
something.
So I mean he said he wasinspired by the stand I don't, I
(59:56):
didn't see them the stephenking book, I don't watch it,
Particularly Stephen King stuffI cannot.
I can see that because StephenKing writes long books and
basically the part he describedas being like the stand was how
he does the characterexploration first and then the
drama kicks off.
That's very Stephen King-esque.
So you know what I mean.
(01:00:17):
How, like the first half of themovie, you're getting to know
Smoke Snack and the Jacksoncommunity and then later on the
vampires.
That to me I could see becausethat seemed very Stephen
King-esque.
Once he said it I would neverpicture it on my own, but when
he said it in an interview I waslike, oh, I can see that.
Speaker 3 (01:00:34):
Did you say Stephen King writes long books or song
books, long books.
Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
Long, a lot of Stephen King books.
I'll give you Fairy Tale, forexample, because I'm a Stephen
King fan, I read the whole thing, but if it was any other author
I would not have made it to theend, because it was so.
It was a long book and it was alot of character development
before the action kicked off,and my attention span is not
that, so I would put it down.
Speaker 3 (01:01:04):
But because I love Stephen King and I know he's
going to give me the payoff Iwant, I patiently waited for the
the payoff, you know.
Yeah, the slow burn that's theone of the criticisms I've heard
from people about sinners.
Um, was that like that?
It didn't like.
It felt slow to them in thebeginning.
Then you get to the vampiresand they didn't like that.
Speaker 2 (01:01:19):
Um, that's why, when he told me that that was his
inspiration, I was like I cantotally see that.
Like well, he didn't tell me.
I saw it can't be.
I don't know personally, likehe told me, like he was over
yesterday.
Speaker 3 (01:01:31):
Oh hi, ryan, would you like some tea, sweet tea
might be something similar with,I don't remember, from dust
because, like I think the when Isaw it was in the 90s.
But like um, when you talkabout any type of artist, you
are drawing inspiration fromcertain things, just like with
the irish dance and everythingyou know.
(01:01:53):
We both thought of thriller andthat sort of thing.
So it's not, you know you.
There's that vague um, what'sthe word I'm looking for?
Not representation?
A vague allude, allude, shin toit, allusion.
Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
There's that vague allusion and true, and I learned
.
I didn't know this either, butI learned that the guy at the
end that's playing the guitar,pretending to be future sammy,
is an actual blues player ohyeah and he apparently his uncle
, because he got the idea forthe movie.
Well, part of it because hisuncle was a huge blues fanatic
(01:02:29):
and he was working on creed.
So he missed his uncle dyingand his funeral and he felt
terrible and he said he wouldlisten to the blues when he
thought of his uncle.
And then the story idea startedcoming marinating and, um, so
the guy is actually his uncle'sfavorite blues player.
So I thought that was a cutestory yeah and he said that he,
um, when he reached out to himhe was like I had my whole pitch
(01:02:52):
ready to give him to try to gethim to be in the movie.
And then when I showed up hishouse, his kids and his
grandkids are there and I got mypitch ready and then he was
like basically like yeah, mygrandkids told me that whatever
you ask I need to say yes to.
I love that.
But I guess his kids andgrandkids knew what Ryan Coogler
(01:03:13):
is to the culture.
They were like, yeah, you needto do whatever exactly, and then
people will look him up thatwas cute.
Yeah, I thought it was a greatfilm we'll watch it again soon
it was a great film, greatexperience.
It was a great night for AMCbecause I'm sure they did well
(01:03:37):
throughout all this.
Warner Brothers there was oneperson who had some complaints.
She loved the movie, but sheworks at the theaters.
Speaker 3 (01:03:46):
My daughter and she was like I'm tired of cleaning
up after these crafts she lovedthe movie, though that's another
thing I loved about the moviethe communal experience it
reminded me of when I went tosee Get Out, where people like
you're laughing together.
You're like yelling at thescreen together, like shut the
(01:04:09):
door, like I don't know that's.
I love that type of likecommunal theater experience.
Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
And I love the way that, like, social media was
coming alive with it too, likeeverybody had their different
takes and stuff like that, andthat's always cool, yes, yeah.
So I'm gonna ask you one lasttime okay remix at your door
right now oh my god he's aknocking, he's offering you's
(01:04:40):
offering you forever.
What are you going to say?
Speaker 3 (01:04:43):
I'm going to say no, because there's some people I
want to see again.
And I can't do that if I'mliving forever.
Speaker 2 (01:04:51):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (01:04:52):
What about you?
Speaker 2 (01:04:58):
While the thought of being around my children forever
would be awesome, the thoughtof living forever in our current
political climate, I don't knowI will say that I think it's
making great art already.
I think this movie is fabulous.
I think all the unfortunatecrap that's going on right now
(01:05:21):
that people are struggling with,I think that tragedy and hard
times are great inspiration forartists, and I think films like
this and the times we're in arejust going to inspire so much
more wonderful art and I can'twait to see it all.
Speaker 3 (01:05:35):
Yes, I just I want the bad times to end, and if art
has to end because of that, sobe it very true very true, very
true.
Speaker 2 (01:05:48):
But what's crazy, too , though, that's true.
What's crazy, too, though, is,like I told you to me, it makes
me feel like I have to speak toit, don't you like?
As an artist, like I told you,I never wanted to.
I would go the furthest, like Iwould do it in essays, but like
(01:06:09):
not in stories.
I would go the furthest awayfrom this because it's emotional
labor and it's heavy.
And who wants to talk aboutthese heavy topics?
yeah but then, when stuff startshappening, you get fired up and
then you're like okay, yeah,now you want to silence my
community.
Let me get louder.
Speaker 3 (01:06:29):
Taking away our museum Like dang.
Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
Exactly that's crazy.
Like that's crazy.
We're not.
I don't know what delusionthey're under, but nobody's
going backwards.
Speaker 3 (01:06:42):
I went to a fight backwards.
I was excited, like I hadn'teven gotten down to see
African-American museum yet andI was excited that they were
going to do Latinx museum likean Asian-American museum, like
these are history that I want toknow, and like I want to see,
and like why are we hiding this?
This is our country, what arewe?
(01:07:03):
What are they?
What are people afraid of?
Um, I don't understand that atall.
Speaker 2 (01:07:09):
I don't think it's that they're afraid.
I think it's that a they don'twant their flaws being shown to
the world.
They want to expose a myth ofwhat America is instead of the
American reality.
And.
B I think it's easier tojustify doing negative things to
people when you try to hidetheir humanity.
Speaker 3 (01:07:32):
Oh, for sure.
Speaker 2 (01:07:35):
So I think part of that is just part of
dehumanization too.
I'm trying to dehumanize people.
I don't think.
If you can see their full scopeof their humanity, their
history, their everything, thenit makes it harder to justify
some of your behaviors.
And did you hear about thesechildren, American citizen
children, getting deported?
Now Editing JD here In thispart I'm talking about some news
(01:07:58):
footage I saw that talked aboutchildren who were born on
American soil but whose parentswere undocumented, and the
children were basically deportedwith their parents.
These American citizen children.
Terrible times.
Speaker 3 (01:08:18):
The movie encapsules that, so it's hard not to.
Speaker 2 (01:08:23):
Very true.
Speaker 3 (01:08:24):
Bring that in, because that's just a part of it
.
Speaker 2 (01:08:27):
Very true.
Speaker 3 (01:08:29):
Okay, so that is our Southern Gothic 2.0 Vampires
Episode.
If you Haven't seen SinnersHopefully we didn't spoil it too
much For you go and see itepisode.
If you haven't seen Sinnershopefully we didn't spoil it too
much for you go and see it.
If you've seen it, go and seeit again so it can continue to
break records.
Thank you for joining us againand we'll see you next time.
Speaker 2 (01:08:54):
We'll see the movie, the great movie, 10 out of 10.
Thank you, guys, for joining us.
Bye.
Speaker 4 (01:09:12):
That wraps up today's Craft Chat Chronicles with JD
Moyer.
Thanks for joining us.
If you liked the episode,please comment, subscribe and
share.
For show notes, writingworkshops and tips, head to
jdmayorcom.
That's jdmayorcom.
(01:09:32):
While you're there, join JD'smailing list for updates,
giveaways and more.
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