Disney author Emma Theriault is here to share the captivating journey behind her debut novel, Rebel Rose. Join us as she recounts the unexpected creative freedom she experienced while working on this Disney IP project set against the backdrop of the French Revolution. From the exhilarating highs of signing with her first agent in 2016 to the unique challenges of debuting during the 2020 pandemic, Emma's story is a testament to resilience and adaptability in the ever-evolving publishing world.
Ever wondered about the emotional ups and downs of securing a book deal? Emma opens up about her submission process, the sting of initial rejections, and the joyous moment of landing an enthusiastic editor. She also emphasizes the importance of understanding what parts of the debut process can be controlled, offering valuable insights into managing expectations and building a strong author platform. Listen to her share practical tips from seasoned authors like Martha Waters and the significance of personalized promotional efforts, including engaging newsletters and authentic reader interactions.
Our conversation doesn't stop there. We dive into the craft of writing, focusing on how to create compelling characters and avoid a sagging middle in your narrative. Discover Emma's techniques for maintaining narrative momentum, along with the joys and challenges of writing historical romance. Additionally, we explore the supportive nature of the Canadian writing community and the thrill of participating in major literary events. Whether you're an aspiring author or a seasoned writer, this episode is packed with actionable advice and inspiring stories.
Keywords: Disney, publishing, writing tips, Author Emma Theriault, Rebel Rose, debut novel, COVID-19 pandemic, IP project, French Revolution, literary journey, publishing world, agent signing, submission process, book deal, rejections, editor, author platform, book marketing, Martha Waters, promotion, newsletters, reader interactions, writing craft, compelling characters, narrative momentum, historical romance, Canadian writing community, literary events, aspiring authors, seasoned writers, creative freedom, resilience, adaptability, storytelling, debut author
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to Craft Chat Chronicles, the go-to podcast
for tips on craftingbest-selling fiction.
Here at Craft Chat Chronicles,we bring you expert interviews,
insights and tips on writing,publishing and marketing.
For workshops, show notes andmore information, visit
(00:25):
jdmyhallcom.
Episode 11 of Craft ChatChronicles.
J.D. Myall (00:30):
we have Disney author Emma Thuraut.
Emma has written Rebel Rose,which is a Beauty and the Beast
novel for Disney.
In this episode she talkswriting IP for Disney.
She talks her publishingjourney and gives you a lot of
valuable insight on writing andpublishing, and she discusses
(00:50):
her new novel, a Lady Would KnowBetter.
Welcome, emma, and enjoyeveryone.
How are you Doing good?
How about yourself?
So tell me a little bit aboutyour writing journey.
Emma Thuraut (01:03):
I signed with my first agent in 2016.
So that was ages ago now and wewent on sub pretty quickly with
a YA fantasy and it was sort ofin retrospect.
It was sort of on the cusp ofthe big boom sort of ending.
So I think we went in with likestars in our eyes and you know,
(01:28):
sort of big expectations forwhat it could do and it got a
lot of interest but ultimately,just it didn't sell.
So, um, you know, we got anoffer for like a digital deal
from like a really big editor,but that just wasn't what me or
my agent envisioned for the book.
So we were like, okay, let'spivot, let's do something
different.
And I had another book, sort ofdie, on sub.
(01:52):
So it's been a bit of a journey.
But then with Rebel Rose, mydebut, which came out a couple
of years ago, it was actually anaudition situation, so it was
an IP project.
My agent got an email, a pitch,from the editor at Disney and
asked if I was interested inauditioning for it, and I didn't
think I would get it.
I was interested, of course,but I thought it would be more
(02:15):
of a learning experience Likethis is how you pitch, you know,
a project on proposal and stufflike that, and I thought it
would be fun, um, cause, youknow, usually these flashy IP
projects go to people like SarahJ Maas or like somebody with an
existing following.
Um, so I really did.
I did not anticipate actuallygetting it and then found out
(02:38):
that I got it and had to veryquickly write a book, um, which
was not how I've written booksin the past.
So yeah, so that came out inNovember 2020.
So obviously that was a bit ofa different experience than your
average debut experience backin 2020.
And you know, I was given allof these opportunities that
(03:00):
didn't end up working outbecause of the pandemic, so it
was a different kind of learningexperience.
J.D. Myall (03:07):
What was it like doing the IP project with Disney
?
Are they very like strict withthe outline?
Do you have some input in it?
How does that work?
Emma Thuraut (03:14):
I know.
I mean, I went in assuming thatI'd be very restricted and very
much tied to an outline or to avision that you know maybe
wouldn't be mine, and I thoughtthat would be a learning
experience too, like how towrite.
You know, not necessarily thestory that I'm passionate about,
but from the start, when I gotthe pitch if you're not familiar
, it's a story about Belle afterthe Happily Ever After and the
(03:36):
pitch was Belle after the FrenchRevolution.
And I studied history so I'm abit of a history nerd so I went
into the project asking if Icould change the pitch, because
to me the more interesting storywould be just before the French
Revolution and how Belle andthe Beast react to it.
So my agent at the time waslike, you know, I'm not sure
(03:58):
that they'll be into changingthe pitch, but I'll ask.
And I was like, yeah, please do, like I'll do it either way,
but could I just see if they'reopen to this?
And they, they were right away.
So I auditioned with somethingthat was already different from
what they had asked for.
Um, taking a bit of a riskthere, but I just knew that it
was.
It was a more interesting storyto tell.
(04:18):
So I did everything I could towrite a story that I thought
would appeal to them but alsoworked for me.
And yeah, so when they chose it, I didn't know if they'd you
know, come out, come out with abinder of, like you have to, I
can write an outline, or you canwrite an outline, or we can,
you know whatever.
So I think that in a differentcircumstance I would have loved
(04:49):
her input, but I had a reallyclear vision from the start of
how I wanted to write this bookand I wrote the outline.
She approved of it, obviously,like we, we went back and forth
and it was more like a normaleditor agent or editor author
relationship in that you know,she read what I wrote, she had
her input and I never dealt withanybody larger than my editor.
(05:10):
I'm sure that it went throughapprovals that I don't know
about, but it was.
It was so much more freedomthan I thought and I'm just so
happy.
It was a great collaborativeprocess.
J.D. Myall (05:22):
I love that.
So what was the 2020 debut?
What did that feel like?
Because I know it was hard inthe pandemic and lots of people
talked about 2020 debuts, but Ihadn't really had the experience
of speaking to someone wholived it yet.
Emma Thuraut (05:36):
Yes, yeah, yeah, it was certainly trial by fire.
I went into the year quiteexcited, so in January, I was
starting to get all these emailslike they were going to send me
to book expo.
It was going to be this big,splashy experience that I had
been dreaming of for, like youknow, I signed with my agent in
2016.
So I've long wanted that kindof journey, and so I was elated,
(06:00):
like I can't believe I'm goingto get this opportunity.
And then, of course, I can'tbelieve I'm going to get this
opportunity.
And then, of course, it didn'thappen.
Um, I remember getting an emailfrom my agency, um, probably in
early March, late February,early March, where we sort of
knew that it was starting.
And it was a very, um,professional email and it was
like you know, it's, it's up toyou if you want to do these
(06:22):
things.
Like we didn't know how big itwas going to be yet, um, and
they were just sort of like youcan do stuff, but like you don't
have to.
And I was still.
I was, I was very ignorantstill, and it was like no, I
want to do whatever I can forthis book.
Like I'm, I'm willing to takethe risk.
And then, of course everythingshut down, rightfully so, of
course, um, so I wasn't able todo those things, so we really
(06:43):
had to pivot and, um, you know,bookstores were mercifully open
again by November.
So I know that a lot of debutswho came before me didn't even
get to go into a bookstore andlook at their books, which would
have been like particularlypainful um, but no, I went in
with my Beauty and the Beastmask on um.
I got to hold my book the day itcame out, so that was was.
(07:04):
I'm so grateful for that andI'm also grateful that we got to
do these.
We did virtual events, so I didone with Victoria Aveyard, my
friend, and I did another onewith Danielle Clayton, who is
just so amazing.
So it's just super cool in thatway that I don't think I would
have had the opportunity to doevents with authors like that in
(07:24):
the real world, like if we hadhad.
You know, I live in Canada, soit's a bit of an ask to get to
people, to come to me.
So that was like a silverlining and it's made it so that
going forward, I'm going to makesure to always do virtual
events alongside my in-personevents, because it's so much
more accessible for everybodyand I'd love to just reach as
many people as possible.
J.D. Myall (07:44):
So so much more accessible for everybody and I'd
love to just reach as manypeople as possible, so I love
that.
Um, you mentioned your agent.
What agent and agency are youin?
Emma Thuraut (07:51):
okay.
So this was with my old agent.
I was with Susie Townsend atNew Leaf and then, um, I pivoted
again my journey is all aboutpivoting when we tried to sell
more, uh, ya, fantasy, and itwasn't really working.
And I this during the year ofmy debut.
So during the height of covid Icouldn't really read, ya, I was
like I can't get my headspacethere.
(08:14):
So I read probably 70 plusromance novels in a row and, uh,
historical romance inparticular.
So I decided I wanted to writeone.
And then it just made sense, um, with my old agent, like she
wasn't really working in thatrealm or of publishing anymore.
So we amicably parted ways.
But I signed with my new agents, carrie Pistrido and Katie
(08:37):
Gassandi at Laura Dale LiteraryAgency and they represent my
books going forward and theyloved my historical romance.
So we're working on other stufftoo, which is great.
J.D. Myall (08:48):
Now, how did you find her?
Did you find her through theslush pile or was there a
referral?
Emma Thuraut (08:53):
So when I was querying again so the first time
I queried I didn't actuallyquery Susie had reached out to
me, so I got to avoid thataltogether.
So I thought, oh, I'm so glad Inever have to query.
But then how did she find thataltogether?
So I thought, oh, I'm so glad Inever have to query.
But then, yeah, of course I didhave to in the end.
So I had several referrals fora bunch of really great agents
and I connected with a lot ofthem.
But a lot of them weren'treally really like though.
(09:17):
There was the Bridgerton boom.
Historical romance is still avery difficult genre and
category to break out into.
So you know, I had a lot ofagents who really loved the
writing and really like lovedeverything about it.
But we're like I just can't.
I don't know how, I don't thinkI'm going to be able to sell
this.
Like I'm worried.
You know they don't want todisappoint you.
So it was a bit frustrating.
(09:38):
Like I just wanted to be likelet's take the risk, though I'm
willing to.
You know I've I've facedrejections for a long time now,
but so I was.
I had already mentally moved on, I think, because that's what
you do right when you face yearsand years of rejection, you're
very good at being like, okay,moving on time to pivot again.
(10:00):
But I got the email from Carrieand she had said that she was,
she had been looking for aproject to rep with Katie
because Katie was a newer agentat the agency and that they both
loved mine and would I bewilling to work with them both.
And I was like, of course, likethat sounds wonderful.
So you know, you've got Carriewith like the experience and you
(10:20):
know the relationships witheditors and the publishing
industry and stuff and knowledge.
And then Katie is just likeyoung and excited Not that she
needs to be young, I don't meanno ageism here, I just mean new
into the industry.
And so it was the best of bothworlds for them.
And so, yeah, it happened over acouple of months.
(10:41):
But obviously anybody who'sever queried knows that it's
very torturous and I used tothink that sub was the worst,
but I think querying might be alittle tiny bit worse, because
when you're on sub you at leastknow you've got somebody on your
side in the industry, like youragent, but when you're querying
you're just adrift.
So yeah, it was a annoyingprocess but I'm glad it got me
(11:03):
where I am.
That's cool.
J.D. Myall (11:06):
So back to the Disney.
It was a flat fee.
Emma Thuraut (11:09):
I don't know how much I'm allowed to say because
I did sign some stuff, but Iknow it was not the deal I went
in thinking it would be.
It was an advance in royalties,oh cool.
J.D. Myall (11:20):
I didn't know that, because most people say that
usually IP projects.
Emma Thuraut (11:24):
Yeah, that's what I went in thinking it would be,
but no, it was a moretraditional or or whatever sort
of deal.
So I you know, I think there'sadvantages and disadvantages to
both, obviously.
J.D. Myall (11:36):
So that's cool.
Love that for you.
Emma Thuraut (11:44):
I mean, you know it's, it's a popular character.
So for the sales, I don't wantto.
J.D. Myall (11:53):
Yeah, you're not crying.
We'll take that as a good thing.
Those are your tears.
You were sipping.
Yeah.
So okay.
So we discussed how you gotyour agent.
We discussed the queryingprocess.
This time around, Tell me howsubmission went for you.
Emma Thuraut (12:11):
Oh boy, yeah, so it's a.
It's an interesting storybecause it did take.
I'm sorry, can I stop you?
J.D. Myall (12:15):
real quick.
Do you have your query letter?
Emma Thuraut (12:19):
by chance.
I don't have it with me, but Icould send it to you.
Yeah, okay, I could send it toyou.
Yeah, okay, I was curious tosee.
J.D. Myall (12:24):
Sure, I'll send it to you Okay.
Emma Thuraut (12:27):
So submission actually took a long time and it
was over a year actually on sub.
So you know, I didn't go intoit expecting it to be fast,
given my previous experiencewith sub, and it was a lot of
the same sorts of responses thatI got when querying where
people love it sorts ofresponses that I got when
querying where people love it.
But you know, just becauseBridgerton's doing well doesn't
(12:48):
mean historical romance is thishot genre that everybody wants
to get their hands on.
So, yeah, some frustratingpasses, um, but with my current
we didn't end up sending it tothe editor who bought it until
this fall, because my agents hada meeting with Entangled where
they were sort of discussing notme but what they've got, what
(13:10):
they're looking for goingforward, and somebody mentioned
that my editor, aaron, islooking for historical romance.
So my agents jumped on that andthen it was a super quick
process once that happened.
So, even though it took a reallylong time, it was fast in the
end.
You know, like I went intoChristmas knowing that an offer
would be coming in January andthen, like we've announced, I've
(13:33):
seen like we have a full cover,like and it's going to come out
in January.
So like it's so much fasterthan my previous experience,
where I auditioned in 2018 andit didn't come out until the end
of 2020.
Now it's like boom, boom, boom.
Like I didn't think I'd have abook out next year because of
the timelines we're normallyworking with, and then all of a
sudden, I have one coming out inJanuary.
So yeah, so it was fast fun.
(13:56):
I'm really excited.
I love the whole team.
Everybody had entangled assuper, super driven, super
excited about romance.
J.D. Myall (14:02):
So that, love that, love that.
Um, what are your plans forlike launch and all that stuff?
Emma Thuraut (14:10):
well.
So I'm a bookseller, so, uh,part-time, so I think I'm going
to do a launch at my bookstore,which will be very fun.
Um, it's like a it's, it'ssmall but I love it.
So, but I was actually justdiscussing there's a, a bookish
content creator that I'm friendswith on Instagram and she was
(14:30):
actually reaching out to metoday being like I want to do a
panel of romance authors fromOttawa because, although we're a
small like we're not smallthere's a million people here.
But you know, we're not likeNew York or like where all these
like authors sort of gather,but there are actually quite a
few romance authors.
So I think we're going to tryto time some sort of romance
panel with all of us around them.
So that'll be really fun.
Like we've got Ruby Barrett,we've got Maggie North, who's
(14:51):
about to debut, so we've got AmyLee, who's amazing.
So, yeah, it would be really funto be able to tie a couple of
different events.
You know, like I haven't Ihaven't talked to my publicity
team yet that's later this month, but I would love to do any
sort of convention.
Like they look so fun.
I would do an event in Torontowould be really cool, because
(15:12):
it's close enough that I cantake the train and there's like
a wider audience there.
So, yeah, I'm open to anything.
I'd love to meet readers.
That's been a thing thatobviously, if you debuted during
the pandemic, you didn't reallyget to do.
So it's like you feel like youmissed out on a pretty, like,
important and special part of anauthor's journey.
(15:33):
So I'll be grateful foranything I get to do.
J.D. Myall (15:37):
Have you started any swag or anything like that yet?
Emma Thuraut (15:39):
Not yet, but I know I'm going to definitely
want to get some bookmarks andnow that I've got a cover and
have seen it like, I'm hopingthat I get to use elements of it
, because it's just so cute.
It's like a cute animatedromance cover and I just love it
.
It's the cover of my dreams.
So I am going to definitely dostuff.
It's just it's hard to doanything bigger than a bookmark
(16:00):
in Canada because once you startmailing those you know pins out
or stuff like that, it getsreally expensive.
J.D. Myall (16:07):
Okay, so what was the hardest part of the debut
process for you, the first timeversus now?
Like what it's a good question,surprises.
Whichever way you prefer.
Emma Thuraut (16:23):
So I think you know, zooming out from the
pandemic and stuff like thatit's I try not to tie it to that
because that was difficult forin its own way, but I think it's
realizing the things you cancontrol versus the things you
have absolutely no control over.
And it's not always obvious andyou know it's not.
Um, it's a difficult thing tobalance and to understand
(16:46):
because we're so primed to bestressed about every little
thing and you know we have ateam around us now, but they're
not, their energy is not bestused telling you like it's okay,
you don't need to worry aboutthis specific thing or like this
specific thing, or we're notgonna be able to make that
happen for you.
So I think figuring out whatyou can control and what you can
put your energy into is reallyimportant because it's finite,
(17:08):
you don't.
You know you can't be sittingthere panicking over your bad
Kirkus review or whatever endsup happening.
You need to focus instead onthe positive.
So, going into this debut, I'vebeen not much more relaxed,
obviously, because I thinkyou're always going to be a
little bit stressed.
But it helps to know.
You know what.
What is, what is a big deal andwhat definitely isn't so I've
(17:30):
tried to, like you know, in ourdiscord, like not be I'm not
some wise voice of reason oranything, but I.
It's helpful, I think, to havesomebody tell you straight up
like an author and I definitelydid when I was going through my
first debuting um, having authorfriends or different people be
like don't, you don't need toworry about that, that is not
(17:51):
worth getting stressed out over.
And and here's the things thatare like you know, I was before
I had um, my newsletter.
I I was like okay, should I bedoing this?
Should I be doing this?
Like now that I have this bookcoming out next year?
And and Martha Waters, anotherromance author, was like you
don't need to do anything.
Like you don't even have acover, you don't have I didn't
even have pre-order links at thetime Like.
(18:11):
She was like you're notactually missing out on anything
, you're not, you can just dialit back.
And then I was like what abouta newsletter?
And she was like actually,because, start gathering people
now, sure you're, and theirexpectations are not going to be
like, show me the cover rightaway, show me like all this.
So obviously in the romancewriting world, newsletters are
really important.
I mean they're importanteverywhere, but romance readers
(18:33):
really gravitate towardsnewsletters, so I'm really glad
I started that love that, lovethat.
J.D. Myall (18:41):
Um, let's see um.
What strategies have youstarted as far as like building
an author platform?
Have you been?
Emma Thuraut (18:53):
Well, definitely the newsletter.
So that was, I think, importantto get out of not get out of
the way, but to get a footing inthat world, and I put a little
bit more effort into it than Iwould have before, I think.
So I'm trying to, like, youknow, plan things out, think
about what readers want to seespecifically from to.
Like you know, plan things out,think about what readers want
to see specifically from authorsand, you know, not just send
(19:13):
out like pointless newsletters,like I think a lot of authors
are really really good atknowing exactly like Victoria
Schwab's newsletter.
Like every time I get it it'slike settling in to read like
the most like interesting letteryour coolest friend sends you.
You know, like, like.
So it's just like looking atwhat other authors are doing
really well and trying toemulate it as best as I can.
(19:35):
So it's, it's important, I think, to like know what will work
for you.
Like you don't have to do whateveryone is doing.
You don't have to do all thethings that you see people doing
.
You don't know what they've gotgoing on in their lives or what
sort of energy they can bring,but picking those little things
that can work for you and thenbuilding upon them.
So, like I don't want to burnout with promo long before the
(19:56):
book comes out.
But you know it's fun to makethat little Canva post that has
your release date, that you justfound out and, like you know,
mention that in your newsletterand stuff like that.
So I'm definitely going to, Ithink I might do, I'm going to
maybe get some art done, I think.
So I'll see.
I'm going to discuss with theteam because I don't know what
their expectations are there,but I'd really love to have some
(20:16):
sort of print or something thatI can include or at least
reference back to when I talkabout my book and stuff like
that.
Yeah, it's just, it's funfinding what works best for you,
I think.
J.D. Myall (20:27):
I like that.
So, with your newsletter, whatare the elements you think that
you're thinking of including,like?
Is it going to be personalnarrative?
Is it going to be sharingthings you love?
Emma Thuraut (20:36):
Yeah.
So my favorite thing, myfavorite newsletters, are just
people talking about what theylove.
Like I love what people areinterested in and what they're
passionate about, even if it'snot something that I'm
interested in.
And in fact I'd prefer it if Iknow nothing about it.
So you know it's my last onethat I just sent out.
I've only done two.
So my last, my first one, wassort of the here's my journey so
(20:58):
far, like a bit longer of aversion of what I've told you,
and it was really interesting.
Actually, after I sent it out,I got got one, two or three
different emails from, or dmsfrom, people being like oh, I'm
like you know, I'm in a similarplace as you were and I'm just
so.
It's so nice that you're sharinglike the ups and downs, and to
(21:19):
me it's like I wasn't trying tobe particularly like open.
I just that's just how I talkabout it.
You know I'm not going tosugarcoat, so that that pinged
in my brain as like you knowpeople, like you know
authenticity, or like tellingthe truth about certain parts of
your journey.
So I'm never going to shy awayfrom that.
But I also love to just talkabout the things that I love.
(21:40):
So in my last one I decided thatI do not not a full book club,
because obviously I don't havethat many readers, readers yet,
but it's fun to build it up.
So I'm gonna start reading likebacklist romance from like
legends and like the books thatI missed.
As you know, I didn't reallystart my romance reading journey
until like aside from what youknow, I stole from, like my mom
(22:03):
when I was like a you know, ateenager, but my journey really
began in 2020, so I feel likethere's so much I missed.
So I'm going to go on thislittle mini journey through my
newsletter where I read theselike amazing books that aren't,
you know, being hyped about onbook talk right now because they
came out 20 plus years ago.
So yeah, so that's going to befun, I think, and hopefully
(22:26):
people join in and stuff and itcan become like a discussion.
J.D. Myall (22:30):
I love that.
That's cute.
Yeah, what do you think you didright that helps you break in
and become the novelist, andtwice the view that you are.
Emma Thuraut (22:48):
I think that the most important quality that I
honed or like clung to, ispersistence.
You know, if you don't enteryour career in 2016 and emerge
in 2024 with like only one bookout and like one in the works,
without knowing that there wereso many places where I wanted to
give up, where it didn'tnecessarily feel worth it to me
(23:12):
in that moment, but I never,ever, allowed myself to like I'm
.
I never gave myself permissionto quit, even though I knew I
had it.
It was like no, but what?
At the end of the day, what Iwant to do more than quit is
keep going.
More than quit is keep going.
(23:33):
So I knew that I had to want itmore than I wanted, Like I had
to want to write more than Iwanted to be published.
So that was important to me andif that ever changed, if I ever
decided, you know, the writingisn't fun anymore or I can't, I
can't do this anymore, then Iwould have quit.
So persistence is like such anunderrated quality, I think, to
have in this industry and to anycreative industry, because
there's so many no's along theway, there's so much that can
(23:58):
derail a career.
So, yeah, it's just deciding.
It's worth it to keep going andthat you are passionate about
what you're doing.
So every time I've talked aboutit with with friends like, or
with readers that's that's whatI say Like you have to want it
so bad that you don't mind thehard parts.
J.D. Myall (24:19):
What are the core elements of a successful novel
Like what do you think makes agood book?
Emma Thuraut (24:25):
I think that the most important is not
necessarily your craft on aprose level, it's the inability
for a reader to put a book down,and you can't really teach that
.
You can try, you can get betterat it, of course, like once
you're anffable quality.
You know like people love tocomplain about some of these
(24:51):
really popular book talk booksbecause they're not well-written
.
But what I think that a lot ofpeople don't realize is that
there's so much more to writingthan just having beautiful prose
and those authors aresucceeding at a really difficult
part of writing and that'shooking readers from the start
and like not letting let, notletting them, let go until the
(25:13):
end.
So if that's something that Ican improve upon, I would love
to improve upon that, becauseyou can't teach it.
I don't think it's like youneed to read a lot to try to
break down what they're doingright and at the end the day,
these are just authors for whomthat talent is like a very
natural part of their process, Ithink.
J.D. Myall (25:33):
I love that.
What makes a good villain?
Emma Thuraut (25:39):
What makes a good villain or antagonist?
Yeah, yeah, I think you knowit's cliche at this point, but
it's that they're not thevillain in their own story.
Like they, their drive is socompelling and it's almost that
you want.
You want to be able tounderstand the villain.
You're not supporting them, butI love a villain, where I'm
(25:59):
reading it and I'm like, yes,like this makes sense, this is
earned.
This sort of like antagonismbetween the characters is
believable.
So you want a real person orcreature or whatever, but they
have to like earn their villainy.
So I love it when it makessense.
So a cartoonish villain is notmy favorite type of villain, but
(26:23):
obviously they have their placeas well.
J.D. Myall (26:27):
And what makes a good protagonist.
Emma Thuraut (26:30):
Somebody that you can't let go of.
I don't like Susie Townsend.
My old agent always says thatshe'll follow a good character
anywhere, and I think thatthat's just such a true
sentiment for any reader who'sever enjoyed a book Like you
know.
You can be sitting there andyou can.
You can be terrified of wherewe might end up, or you know
like just dreading what couldcome, but you're like no, I'm
(26:53):
with this character.
J.D. Myall (26:54):
I'm I'll go anywhere with them, Like that's just.
I would be on this journey withthem if I could Hold on.
I'm going to stop recordingreal quick, Okay.
So how do you avoid?
Emma Thuraut (27:12):
this saggy middle.
How do you keep readers engagedthroughout the whole novel?
Oh boy, I think for mefollowing a structure is
important.
So I do use the save the catbeat sheet.
I do it loosely, like I'm notmarried to it, and if something
needs to change that's fine.
But that's helped me in the pastand I think that a lot of
writers just naturally writeusing like a mental beat sheet.
Like the first time Iencountered Save the Cat was
(27:35):
when I was writing the book thatwe the very first book we tried
to sell, and I had alreadywritten like half or two thirds
of it, and so when I was goingthrough the beat sheet I
realized I had hit a lot ofthose notes already.
So it's like a very it can be avery natural process, but it's
also it's a great thing to holdyour hand to, because you know
(27:57):
Writing a book is hard and Inever learned how to do it like
I did go to my high school.
My high school was an arts highschool and I went for writing.
But you know, nobody can teachyou in high school or like even
some university programs likehow to sit down and write a
novel, because it's such apersonal experience.
So I think Save the Cat wasgreat for me, but I know a lot
of authors who use like the fiveact structure or like three act
(28:17):
structure.
So it's not leaning on thesethings, but it's using them when
you know it can be helpful.
So if you're in a point with thesagging middle and you're like
you know what am I supposed todo next, I think that finding
that corresponding thing andsave the cat and you can twist
it too.
You know it doesn't have to,you don't have to follow it
exactly, but, uh, it's if it wasnatural for us as a writer.
I think it's natural for areader to to read it and have
(28:39):
certain expectations.
So it can be really helpful.
So that's what I rely on.
Um, and also, just like youknow, if it's not working for me
as I'm writing, I have to thengrapple with the idea that I've
done something wrong.
You know, back down the lineand I have to go back and figure
out where the wrong turn was.
So it's just listening to myinstincts about story and being
(29:01):
like OK, I have to admit tomyself that if this is hard to
write in this way, I must havedone something wrong.
J.D. Myall (29:11):
And how do you come up with a satisfying conclusion,
like how do you end yourstories?
Emma Thuraut (29:14):
Oh man, I think it's the.
As a reader, I always want moreum at the end of my favorite
books, so it's finding thebalance between giving like the
satisfying end but also justlike just a little bit more Like
.
I don't know if you've read, Ijust watched the Idea of you,
that Anne Hathaway movie, and Idon't want to spoilers or
(29:36):
whatever, but in the movie ithas a quite happy ending.
But I got the book, I went towork the next day and
immediately bought the book andstarted reading it, and the book
apparently does not have thathappy ending.
So I think it's going to be areally interesting study.
In contrast, because the bookhad such a devoted following
even without the happy ending.
So I'm really intrigued to readhow she makes it end and then
(29:57):
how the movie did it as well.
So I think you just have toit's.
I hate to talk about earningthings again, but, like it is
just, you can write the endingthat you've earned, as as
throughout the rest rest of thebook, so you're giving them what
they want, but it's so I thinkit's so important to just leave
a little bit more so that thereader can fill in the blanks,
kind of, as to what they wantedthe ending to be as well love
(30:20):
that, love that, love that.
J.D. Myall (30:23):
All right, I'm gonna backtrack a little, because I
should have asked you thisearlier.
Um, you talked about thesubmission process.
What was your editor call like?
Was it on Zoom?
Was it on the phone?
Emma Thuraut (30:35):
I have not had an editor call.
Actually it happened aroundChristmas, so I think it was
just such a crazy part of theseason.
So I knew that I was told thatI'd get an offer in January.
And then in January I got theoffer.
And then I you know in our longemails to each other, since
that's when we've talked but Idid not have an editor call
(30:57):
right away.
So I am having a call soon, sohopefully I'll get some more
info then but yeah in her emails.
She's effusive, she's great,she's like super solid, she's
effusive, she's great, she'slike super solid.
I feel very lucky to have herbecause I, you know, like I did
(31:17):
study history, so I am like veryparticular about getting things
right.
And even with all thatattention, I still got forms of
address wrong in, like VictorianEngland and stuff like that,
and she's very well versed inthat.
J.D. Myall (31:27):
So she's like the perfect partner and stuff like
that and she's very well versedin that, so she's like the
perfect partner.
I love that.
Yeah, and you know, you'reprobably fortunate because when
I had my call, I froze like adeer in headlights.
Oh my God, I would have too.
Thank God Susie was on the callso she could take up some of
that.
Yeah, and I interviewed peopleall the time.
That's what the agent is goodfor.
I've even interviewedcelebrities and stuff.
(31:48):
Perfectly fine, but becausethis was such a lifelong dream
and she had the power to get tome or not, I froze Wow.
Emma Thuraut (31:58):
I'm sure it's, I'm sure it's more common than we
think Mouth wide waiting for thefinest, not my finest, moment.
J.D. Myall (32:05):
Yeah, I would be the exact same way, but at least
now you can go yeah, at leastnow you can go with the
confidence that you already havethe deal, you know exactly, so
you can have a normalconversation yeah what has been
your biggest surprise so far?
Emma Thuraut (32:23):
um with the publishing journey my biggest
surprise, just how um fulfillingit becomes when you, when you
hear from readers like I knewthat obviously that would be a
really enjoyable part of theprocess.
But you know, writing an iconiccharacter like Belle, you know
(32:45):
people have a lot ofexpectations going in.
So I sort of hardened myselfbefore it came out where I was,
like you know, I I wrote thebook I wanted to write and I'm
proud of it.
But like, obviously she's acharacter that so many people
have loved for so long.
Like I'm going to disappointsome people and so that was my
attitude going in.
Like it's okay if people aredisappointed, and so I didn't
(33:05):
leave room to expect that somepeople would still really like
it, didn't leave room to expectthat some people would still
really like it.
So hearing from them has justbeen so amazing.
And like people who get what Iwas doing with Belle.
So that has been just such aheartwarming part of the process
.
And you like to think like I'mso hard, I don't need, like I
don't need people to approve ofit or whatever.
(33:26):
But then you get that DM from areader.
That's just like you know, youwrote bell exactly how I
imagined her, or you did this orwhatever like that, and it's
like, okay, it's that connectionthat we're all looking for,
right, like the way that youread a book and you read one
line in a book and it justreaches into your exact
experience and you're like, okay, I'm not alone.
So, having read, having been areader my whole life and had
(33:49):
having those moments, it's soamazing when you realize that
you can have that moment as awriter.
So I've loved that.
J.D. Myall (33:57):
And what tips do you have for historical romance
writers?
Emma Thuraut (34:00):
Oh boy, okay.
Well, I think the biggest oneis that you have to have more
than one idea, because romancereaders are voracious.
So my book deal is a three bookdeal Because I it's in the same
vein as Bridgerton.
It's going to follow thesiblings in a family.
Siblings in a family, um, andyeah.
(34:26):
So it's such a vibrant and likeexcited community that you're
gonna want to read a lot ofromance, like in every sub-genre
contemporary sci-fi, likeeverything, um, get your footing
in it.
So I think that you know, whenI read 70 plus in a row, like
that was like my education in itreally quick.
And I was only really able to dothat because of the pandemic so
small silver lining and to justlike it's such a beautiful
(34:48):
community that I think you needto put yourself out there so
early with other writers ofromance because they're they're
your peers and with romance, youknow, with the events, the
signings, the things like that,like you find your community
there and, um, just reaching outto people that you admire and
respect, like I can't believesome of the people that I
(35:09):
consider friends now afterreading their gorgeous,
beautiful books, um, so it's,it's really a community-based,
uh, genre and category, so withreaders and writers.
So you know, I've been lookingat conventions now, just sort of
getting an idea of them andit's just it's amazing how they
come together and they'll bringhundreds of authors in and
(35:31):
thousands of readers and it'sjust so different.
It's not different from YA,it's just they know what they're
doing with romance.
Conventions and like YA cansort of be hard to like.
Y'all Fest and Y'all West aregreat and stuff like that but I
just feel like they've got itdown in the romance community
and it just really highlightshow important it is to develop
(35:51):
these relationships with yourpeers and with readers as well.
So you have to be open to that.
So for historical romancespecifically, though, I think
readers are very discerning.
I've seen a lot of reviews nowthat I'm like looking into this
world and people can be veryparticular about how modern
(36:14):
characters can seem like I.
There's so many authors I loveand whose books I love but who
get sort of trashed for writinglike overtly feminist characters
sometimes, you know, and peopleare like, well, that's not how
Victorian women were or that'snot how.
So it's important, I think, todo your research so that you
understand that, though theywere different, there were
(36:35):
definitely feminist women inVictorian and Regency England
and their, their stories wereimportant.
So I think it's finding therealism um, I've Sarah McClain
has talked about this where shesays, like you know, all of all
of her characters have a basisin reality.
She's not inventing feminism,for for the reason it's like
(36:57):
these women have always existed.
So it's doing your research.
But it's also just understandingthat, much like with Rebel Rose
and a character that's iconicas Belle, you can't please
everybody.
So you can tie yourself up intoknots about getting everything
perfect, but at the end of theday, one reader is going to
absolutely love what you did andanother one's going to trash it
.
So it's feeling comfortablewith the research that you do,
(37:21):
with the work you put into itand just letting go at the end
of the day.
So I did as much research as Icould, I put as much history
into it as I could, but I wantedmy characters to live and
breathe as well.
So I didn't want to be tied downtoo tightly to conventions that
won't speak to a modern reader,but I also didn't want to
disrespect history, you know.
(37:42):
So it's finding a balance there.
But I I love watching everymovie I can get my hands on set
in that timeframe and readingbooks written by contemporary,
at the time, authors to get areal feel for how things were.
So it's sort of like immersingyourself into as much of that
world as you can and then justdoing what you want, what you
want with it.
J.D. Myall (38:02):
So I love that.
What does your writing processlook like now?
Emma Thuraut (38:09):
I have to not be a slow writer anymore.
I'm very I'm a perfectionist,so it tends to take me a very
long time to get a first draftdone.
But then my editing process ispretty straightforward.
So it's like you know, it'seither going to be I'm going to
write a trash draft and thenedit it forever, or my way,
which is like, keep going, I, Irewrite and rewrite, so so
(38:31):
constantly.
You know, like my writingsessions, when I sit down it's
like reading everything I'vewritten up until that point and
then starting it.
So it can be, it can becomequite slow, but I do then, like
I said, emerge with a prettyclean draft.
So I just have to somehow keepdoing that but also write faster
.
So you know, like I said, theromance timeline is quite quick.
(38:54):
So I have to write book two inthe next couple of months and
I'm hoping that just by sheerforce of will I can change the
way I've written for so long.
I did write Rebel Rose ratherquickly, so I know I can do it.
So I just have to put it intopractice now.
J.D. Myall (39:10):
Did Rebel Rose sell on proposal or did you have to
write?
Or did you write the full page?
Emma Thuraut (39:14):
no, so I auditioned with um.
I think what I was told was10,000 words or three chapters,
and I wrote a prologue plusthree chapters and submitted
that and then, yeah, it's IP.
Yeah, I didn't know.
J.D. Myall (39:30):
Rebel Rose was IP.
That's cool.
Who was it?
Through Disney, okay, okay, Iknew the first one was Disney,
but the second one I didn't.
Oh, it's Disney, yeah, so.
Emma Thuraut (39:40):
Rebel Rose is my Disney book, and then A Lady
Would Know Better is my romance.
Okay, so that one.
I wrote the whole thing andsold it like that.
And then Rebel Rose was theaudition one.
So, okay, yeah, yeah, but thisone, no, the historical romance
I wrote the whole thing and thenI had pretty extensive pitches
for books two and three, andthen that's why I think they
bought all three, but in aperfect world.
J.D. Myall (40:06):
I'll be able to write all the siblings in the
series, and that would be sixbooks.
So we'll see Awesome.
Emma Thuraut (40:11):
Thank you, I love it.
J.D. Myall (40:11):
So you're loving the Disney life right now, which is
a good thing.
Emma Thuraut (40:14):
I you know it came out a while ago, so we do have.
Since mine came out first.
We've had a Mulan book in thesame series by Livia Blackburn,
and Alexandra Munir wrote theJasmine book which came out last
year and this year.
Sarah Rash is well, it'salready done.
(40:35):
Obviously her Sleeping Beautybook is coming out, so hopefully
I'll get to write more in theseries, but you know it's out of
my hands.
But I definitely have ideas.
J.D. Myall (40:46):
Out of curiosity and you cannot answer.
If you can't answer, do theygive you guys any theme park
perks, like do you get freetickets?
No, I wish.
Emma Thuraut (40:57):
Alex got to do a fun event last year where she
spoke at Disney World.
So you know, I think there'sstuff like that, but I've never
been to Disney World or land, somaybe I'll email my editor if
I'm ever planning to go be like,hey, any chance?
Yeah, no.
I wish.
J.D. Myall (41:16):
Which is easier for you writing an original idea or
doing IP, where they provide theidea.
Emma Thuraut (41:24):
Original for sure, because with the IP, even
though I was able to change itso much to what I envisioned the
story being, it's still at theend of the day, it's not my
characters, it's not.
I did get to write newcharacters, obviously in the
book, and so there was like theopportunity to be creative and
original in that way.
But yeah, at the end of the dayit's like a tale as old as time
(41:46):
.
I didn't invent it, so I dolove writing my own books, but
writing IP was such a funchallenge that I I have nothing
against it and would definitelydo it again.
But what's interesting is thatI've never written fan fiction,
so I never did.
I never read it.
Growing up I didn't write it.
I'm a little bit too married tothe idea that the author is the
(42:08):
only one that can tell me aboutthese characters, but I respect
it immensely and I know thatit's been such a pivotal part of
a lot of people's writingjourneys has been writing fanfic
first and then obviously.
Obviously it's pretty funny tome that my first published novel
is essentially sanctionedfanfiction.
J.D. Myall (42:32):
I was just going to say.
What's funny too, is how commonIP is.
Yeah, but most people don'trealize that it's like a part of
publishing, but it's how a lotof authors break in.
Emma Thuraut (42:42):
Oh, absolutely yeah and not even you know, it's
not even characters that weknow.
It's like in-house IP, wherethe editor comes up with an idea
and then yeah, so it's verycool.
I think Whatever opportunityyou can take to break into the
industry, I think is a great one.
J.D. Myall (43:01):
Exactly.
Just yesterday I interviewed anauthor who her book is getting
made into a Netflix series andit was IP and she has like tons
and tons of books now.
So you know Exactly, wouldn'thave known that, you know it's
IP, but she was saying that IPhas helped her keep the lights
on because she does her originalideas but she does IP every
(43:22):
year.
She's doing both amazing yeah,yeah.
Emma Thuraut (43:24):
No, I had such a great experience and like it was
only, I think you know, throughthe pandemic, the uncertainties
of the pandemic, that reallylike slowed us down a little bit
, like we had to delay book twoand stuff like that with the
series.
So I am hope I got.
I would love to write more forit.
So it really depends on ifpeople keep reading the series.
So it's been.
The cool thing is that it'sbeen translated in so many
(43:46):
different languages and you knowit's gone on a journey that I
don't know that my first book,if it wasn't IP, would have gone
on.
So that's a really cool thingtoo is like hearing from
Portuguese readers and Spanishreaders, french readers, german
readers, so that that that'sreally fun as well what would
you like to talk about that wehaven't covered?
(44:07):
I think you've done a reallygreat job, so I don't know that
there's anything that we haven'tdiscussed.
Uh, it's been a great interview, so, um well, I mean, I'd not
that it's part of the interview,but I'd love to know, like,
what's your book, your bookabout?
J.D. Myall (44:19):
My book is it's YA, it's a romantic, it's like it's
got time travel.
It's like Outlander meets thenight circus and it's easy.
Oh my God, those are amazingcomps.
Yeah, these two warring magicalfamilies and stuff like that.
Oh, what's the title?
Right now it's Heart's Gambit.
I don't know if that's whatthey're going to keep or not yet
(44:40):
, because we haven't got thatfar in.
I love the title.
Thank you, I'm coming out.
Fall of next year.
Emma Thuraut (44:45):
Oh, my God, that's so exciting.
I can't wait to read it.
When are you coming out exactly?
What's the exact date?
January 28th, okay, yeah, andI'm proposal and we're going to
go on out on proposal with theromanticist, so fingers crossed,
but an adult one.
J.D. Myall (45:01):
So yay, romanticist seems to be very hot right now.
Emma Thuraut (45:04):
Yeah, exactly, and , like I, you know, there's
expectations in the adultromanticist world, um, in terms
of like spice level and stufflike that.
And so I'm I'm grateful thatI've already written my romance
novel, my historical romance,and now I feel a little bit more
confident in that realm.
So, you know, obviously notevery romance, see books, needs
to have that, but I, just as areader, that's what I gravitate
(45:25):
towards, so that's what I'mhoping to achieve.
J.D. Myall (45:29):
That's awesome.
So what's the Canada writingcommunity like?
Emma Thuraut (45:32):
Well, we're so.
We're such a large country soit's very hard to be super close
.
You know, like, if there's anevent in Toronto I can sometimes
it's four hours away, so it'snot that close but I have gone.
You know, when writing friendshave had their events in Toronto
, it's like a nice opportunityto go and meet them.
So you know, I went and metVictoria Aveyard in Toronto a
couple years ago and, like, myfriend Alwyn Hamilton was there
(45:56):
a few years ago.
So I try to take thatopportunity when I can.
Um, but you know, ottawa has itsown sort of right now the
Ottawa International WritersFest is going on and they don't
really do a lot of YA or sort ofromance events.
So let's hope we change that.
But the bookstore I work atlike provides the books for it
(46:16):
and stuff.
So I feel pretty connected tothe writing community, even if
it's not like in the way that Iwould love, you know, like if we
could do romance panels andstuff like that.
So that's why I'm so happy thatyou know readers, people the
girl I was talking to earliertaking the initiative to sort of
like pitch these kinds ofevents because there's an
audience for it and like, like Isaid, there's like six of us
(46:39):
who live in Ottawa, so weabsolutely should be joining
forces and doing stuff like that.
But the other great thing aboutOttawa is that I am pretty close
to New York and stuff.
So not that I've had theopportunity to, but you know,
when I was going to go to BEAand stuff, it wouldn't be quite
the journey like that it wouldbe if I was on like the West
coast or something so.
But I did get to go to umComic-Con, san Diego Comic-Con,
(47:02):
a couple years ago for RebelRose, like we did a Disney thing
.
So that was amazing and haslike totally convinced me that
if I'm ever asked if I want todo things like that, I
absolutely want to do themforever, going forward like
however difficult it might makea travel day or something like I
would go yeah, difficult itmight make a travel day or
something like I would go.
Welcome to Craft Chat Chronicles, the go-to podcast
for tips on craftingbest-selling fiction.
Here at Craft Chat Chronicles,we bring you expert interviews,
insights and tips on writing,publishing and marketing.
For workshops, show notes andmore information, visit
(00:25):
jdmyhallcom.
Episode 11 of Craft ChatChronicles.
J.D. Myall (00:30):
we have Disney author Emma Thuraut.
Emma has written Rebel Rose,which is a Beauty and the Beast
novel for Disney.
In this episode she talkswriting IP for Disney.
She talks her publishingjourney and gives you a lot of
valuable insight on writing andpublishing, and she discusses
(00:50):
her new novel, a Lady Would KnowBetter.
Welcome, emma, and enjoyeveryone.
How are you Doing good?
How about yourself?
So tell me a little bit aboutyour writing journey.
Emma Thuraut (01:03):
I signed with my first agent in 2016.
So that was ages ago now and wewent on sub pretty quickly with
a YA fantasy and it was sort ofin retrospect.
It was sort of on the cusp ofthe big boom sort of ending.
So I think we went in with likestars in our eyes and you know,
(01:28):
sort of big expectations forwhat it could do and it got a
lot of interest but ultimately,just it didn't sell.
So, um, you know, we got anoffer for like a digital deal
from like a really big editor,but that just wasn't what me or
my agent envisioned for the book.
So we were like, okay, let'spivot, let's do something
different.
And I had another book, sort ofdie, on sub.
(01:52):
So it's been a bit of a journey.
But then with Rebel Rose, mydebut, which came out a couple
of years ago, it was actually anaudition situation, so it was
an IP project.
My agent got an email, a pitch,from the editor at Disney and
asked if I was interested inauditioning for it, and I didn't
think I would get it.
I was interested, of course,but I thought it would be more
(02:15):
of a learning experience Likethis is how you pitch, you know,
a project on proposal and stufflike that, and I thought it
would be fun, um, cause, youknow, usually these flashy IP
projects go to people like SarahJ Maas or like somebody with an
existing following.
Um, so I really did.
I did not anticipate actuallygetting it and then found out
(02:38):
that I got it and had to veryquickly write a book, um, which
was not how I've written booksin the past.
So yeah, so that came out inNovember 2020.
So obviously that was a bit ofa different experience than your
average debut experience backin 2020.
And you know, I was given allof these opportunities that
(03:00):
didn't end up working outbecause of the pandemic, so it
was a different kind of learningexperience.
J.D. Myall (03:07):
What was it like doing the IP project with Disney
?
Are they very like strict withthe outline?
Do you have some input in it?
How does that work?
Emma Thuraut (03:14):
I know.
I mean, I went in assuming thatI'd be very restricted and very
much tied to an outline or to avision that you know maybe
wouldn't be mine, and I thoughtthat would be a learning
experience too, like how towrite.
You know, not necessarily thestory that I'm passionate about,
but from the start, when I gotthe pitch if you're not familiar
, it's a story about Belle afterthe Happily Ever After and the
(03:36):
pitch was Belle after the FrenchRevolution.
And I studied history so I'm abit of a history nerd so I went
into the project asking if Icould change the pitch, because
to me the more interesting storywould be just before the French
Revolution and how Belle andthe Beast react to it.
So my agent at the time waslike, you know, I'm not sure
(03:58):
that they'll be into changingthe pitch, but I'll ask.
And I was like, yeah, please do, like I'll do it either way,
but could I just see if they'reopen to this?
And they, they were right away.
So I auditioned with somethingthat was already different from
what they had asked for.
Um, taking a bit of a riskthere, but I just knew that it
was.
It was a more interesting storyto tell.
(04:18):
So I did everything I could towrite a story that I thought
would appeal to them but alsoworked for me.
And yeah, so when they chose it, I didn't know if they'd you
know, come out, come out with abinder of, like you have to, I
can write an outline, or you canwrite an outline, or we can,
you know whatever.
So I think that in a differentcircumstance I would have loved
(04:49):
her input, but I had a reallyclear vision from the start of
how I wanted to write this bookand I wrote the outline.
She approved of it, obviously,like we, we went back and forth
and it was more like a normaleditor agent or editor author
relationship in that you know,she read what I wrote, she had
her input and I never dealt withanybody larger than my editor.
(05:10):
I'm sure that it went throughapprovals that I don't know
about, but it was.
It was so much more freedomthan I thought and I'm just so
happy.
It was a great collaborativeprocess.
J.D. Myall (05:22):
I love that.
So what was the 2020 debut?
What did that feel like?
Because I know it was hard inthe pandemic and lots of people
talked about 2020 debuts, but Ihadn't really had the experience
of speaking to someone wholived it yet.
Emma Thuraut (05:36):
Yes, yeah, yeah, it was certainly trial by fire.
I went into the year quiteexcited, so in January, I was
starting to get all these emailslike they were going to send me
to book expo.
It was going to be this big,splashy experience that I had
been dreaming of for, like youknow, I signed with my agent in
2016.
So I've long wanted that kindof journey, and so I was elated,
(06:00):
like I can't believe I'm goingto get this opportunity.
And then, of course, I can'tbelieve I'm going to get this
opportunity.
And then, of course, it didn'thappen.
Um, I remember getting an emailfrom my agency, um, probably in
early March, late February,early March, where we sort of
knew that it was starting.
And it was a very, um,professional email and it was
like you know, it's, it's up toyou if you want to do these
(06:22):
things.
Like we didn't know how big itwas going to be yet, um, and
they were just sort of like youcan do stuff, but like you don't
have to.
And I was still.
I was, I was very ignorantstill, and it was like no, I
want to do whatever I can forthis book.
Like I'm, I'm willing to takethe risk.
And then, of course everythingshut down, rightfully so, of
course, um, so I wasn't able todo those things, so we really
(06:43):
had to pivot and, um, you know,bookstores were mercifully open
again by November.
So I know that a lot of debutswho came before me didn't even
get to go into a bookstore andlook at their books, which would
have been like particularlypainful um, but no, I went in
with my Beauty and the Beastmask on um.
I got to hold my book the day itcame out, so that was was.
(07:04):
I'm so grateful for that andI'm also grateful that we got to
do these.
We did virtual events, so I didone with Victoria Aveyard, my
friend, and I did another onewith Danielle Clayton, who is
just so amazing.
So it's just super cool in thatway that I don't think I would
have had the opportunity to doevents with authors like that in
(07:24):
the real world, like if we hadhad.
You know, I live in Canada, soit's a bit of an ask to get to
people, to come to me.
So that was like a silverlining and it's made it so that
going forward, I'm going to makesure to always do virtual
events alongside my in-personevents, because it's so much
more accessible for everybodyand I'd love to just reach as
many people as possible.
J.D. Myall (07:44):
So so much more accessible for everybody and I'd
love to just reach as manypeople as possible, so I love
that.
Um, you mentioned your agent.
What agent and agency are youin?
Emma Thuraut (07:51):
okay.
So this was with my old agent.
I was with Susie Townsend atNew Leaf and then, um, I pivoted
again my journey is all aboutpivoting when we tried to sell
more, uh, ya, fantasy, and itwasn't really working.
And I this during the year ofmy debut.
So during the height of covid Icouldn't really read, ya, I was
like I can't get my headspacethere.
(08:14):
So I read probably 70 plusromance novels in a row and, uh,
historical romance inparticular.
So I decided I wanted to writeone.
And then it just made sense, um, with my old agent, like she
wasn't really working in thatrealm or of publishing anymore.
So we amicably parted ways.
But I signed with my new agents, carrie Pistrido and Katie
(08:37):
Gassandi at Laura Dale LiteraryAgency and they represent my
books going forward and theyloved my historical romance.
So we're working on other stufftoo, which is great.
J.D. Myall (08:48):
Now, how did you find her?
Did you find her through theslush pile or was there a
referral?
Emma Thuraut (08:53):
So when I was querying again so the first time
I queried I didn't actuallyquery Susie had reached out to
me, so I got to avoid thataltogether.
So I thought, oh, I'm so glad Inever have to query.
But then how did she find thataltogether?
So I thought, oh, I'm so glad Inever have to query.
But then, yeah, of course I didhave to in the end.
So I had several referrals fora bunch of really great agents
and I connected with a lot ofthem.
But a lot of them weren'treally really like though.
(09:17):
There was the Bridgerton boom.
Historical romance is still avery difficult genre and
category to break out into.
So you know, I had a lot ofagents who really loved the
writing and really like lovedeverything about it.
But we're like I just can't.
I don't know how, I don't thinkI'm going to be able to sell
this.
Like I'm worried.
You know they don't want todisappoint you.
So it was a bit frustrating.
(09:38):
Like I just wanted to be likelet's take the risk, though I'm
willing to.
You know I've I've facedrejections for a long time now,
but so I was.
I had already mentally moved on, I think, because that's what
you do right when you face yearsand years of rejection, you're
very good at being like, okay,moving on time to pivot again.
(10:00):
But I got the email from Carrieand she had said that she was,
she had been looking for aproject to rep with Katie
because Katie was a newer agentat the agency and that they both
loved mine and would I bewilling to work with them both.
And I was like, of course, likethat sounds wonderful.
So you know, you've got Carriewith like the experience and you
(10:20):
know the relationships witheditors and the publishing
industry and stuff and knowledge.
And then Katie is just likeyoung and excited Not that she
needs to be young, I don't meanno ageism here, I just mean new
into the industry.
And so it was the best of bothworlds for them.
And so, yeah, it happened over acouple of months.
(10:41):
But obviously anybody who'sever queried knows that it's
very torturous and I used tothink that sub was the worst,
but I think querying might be alittle tiny bit worse, because
when you're on sub you at leastknow you've got somebody on your
side in the industry, like youragent, but when you're querying
you're just adrift.
So yeah, it was a annoyingprocess but I'm glad it got me
(11:03):
where I am.
That's cool.
J.D. Myall (11:06):
So back to the Disney.
It was a flat fee.
Emma Thuraut (11:09):
I don't know how much I'm allowed to say because
I did sign some stuff, but Iknow it was not the deal I went
in thinking it would be.
It was an advance in royalties,oh cool.
J.D. Myall (11:20):
I didn't know that, because most people say that
usually IP projects.
Emma Thuraut (11:24):
Yeah, that's what I went in thinking it would be,
but no, it was a moretraditional or or whatever sort
of deal.
So I you know, I think there'sadvantages and disadvantages to
both, obviously.
J.D. Myall (11:36):
So that's cool.
Love that for you.
Emma Thuraut (11:44):
I mean, you know it's, it's a popular character.
So for the sales, I don't wantto.
J.D. Myall (11:53):
Yeah, you're not crying.
We'll take that as a good thing.
Those are your tears.
You were sipping.
Yeah.
So okay.
So we discussed how you gotyour agent.
We discussed the queryingprocess.
This time around, Tell me howsubmission went for you.
Emma Thuraut (12:11):
Oh boy, yeah, so it's a.
It's an interesting storybecause it did take.
I'm sorry, can I stop you?
J.D. Myall (12:15):
real quick.
Do you have your query letter?
Emma Thuraut (12:19):
by chance.
I don't have it with me, but Icould send it to you.
Yeah, okay, I could send it toyou.
Yeah, okay, I was curious tosee.
J.D. Myall (12:24):
Sure, I'll send it to you Okay.
Emma Thuraut (12:27):
So submission actually took a long time and it
was over a year actually on sub.
So you know, I didn't go intoit expecting it to be fast,
given my previous experiencewith sub, and it was a lot of
the same sorts of responses thatI got when querying where
people love it sorts ofresponses that I got when
querying where people love it.
But you know, just becauseBridgerton's doing well doesn't
(12:48):
mean historical romance is thishot genre that everybody wants
to get their hands on.
So, yeah, some frustratingpasses, um, but with my current
we didn't end up sending it tothe editor who bought it until
this fall, because my agents hada meeting with Entangled where
they were sort of discussing notme but what they've got, what
(13:10):
they're looking for goingforward, and somebody mentioned
that my editor, aaron, islooking for historical romance.
So my agents jumped on that andthen it was a super quick
process once that happened.
So, even though it took a reallylong time, it was fast in the
end.
You know, like I went intoChristmas knowing that an offer
would be coming in January andthen, like we've announced, I've
(13:33):
seen like we have a full cover,like and it's going to come out
in January.
So like it's so much fasterthan my previous experience,
where I auditioned in 2018 andit didn't come out until the end
of 2020.
Now it's like boom, boom, boom.
Like I didn't think I'd have abook out next year because of
the timelines we're normallyworking with, and then all of a
sudden, I have one coming out inJanuary.
So yeah, so it was fast fun.
(13:56):
I'm really excited.
I love the whole team.
Everybody had entangled assuper, super driven, super
excited about romance.
J.D. Myall (14:02):
So that, love that, love that.
Um, what are your plans forlike launch and all that stuff?
Emma Thuraut (14:10):
well.
So I'm a bookseller, so, uh,part-time, so I think I'm going
to do a launch at my bookstore,which will be very fun.
Um, it's like a it's, it'ssmall but I love it.
So, but I was actually justdiscussing there's a, a bookish
content creator that I'm friendswith on Instagram and she was
(14:30):
actually reaching out to metoday being like I want to do a
panel of romance authors fromOttawa because, although we're a
small like we're not smallthere's a million people here.
But you know, we're not likeNew York or like where all these
like authors sort of gather,but there are actually quite a
few romance authors.
So I think we're going to tryto time some sort of romance
panel with all of us around them.
So that'll be really fun.
Like we've got Ruby Barrett,we've got Maggie North, who's
(14:51):
about to debut, so we've got AmyLee, who's amazing.
So, yeah, it would be really funto be able to tie a couple of
different events.
You know, like I haven't Ihaven't talked to my publicity
team yet that's later this month, but I would love to do any
sort of convention.
Like they look so fun.
I would do an event in Torontowould be really cool, because
(15:12):
it's close enough that I cantake the train and there's like
a wider audience there.
So, yeah, I'm open to anything.
I'd love to meet readers.
That's been a thing thatobviously, if you debuted during
the pandemic, you didn't reallyget to do.
So it's like you feel like youmissed out on a pretty, like,
important and special part of anauthor's journey.
(15:33):
So I'll be grateful foranything I get to do.
J.D. Myall (15:37):
Have you started any swag or anything like that yet?
Emma Thuraut (15:39):
Not yet, but I know I'm going to definitely
want to get some bookmarks andnow that I've got a cover and
have seen it like, I'm hopingthat I get to use elements of it
, because it's just so cute.
It's like a cute animatedromance cover and I just love it
.
It's the cover of my dreams.
So I am going to definitely dostuff.
It's just it's hard to doanything bigger than a bookmark
(16:00):
in Canada because once you startmailing those you know pins out
or stuff like that, it getsreally expensive.
J.D. Myall (16:07):
Okay, so what was the hardest part of the debut
process for you, the first timeversus now?
Like what it's a good question,surprises.
Whichever way you prefer.
Emma Thuraut (16:23):
So I think you know, zooming out from the
pandemic and stuff like thatit's I try not to tie it to that
because that was difficult forin its own way, but I think it's
realizing the things you cancontrol versus the things you
have absolutely no control over.
And it's not always obvious andyou know it's not.
Um, it's a difficult thing tobalance and to understand
(16:46):
because we're so primed to bestressed about every little
thing and you know we have ateam around us now, but they're
not, their energy is not bestused telling you like it's okay,
you don't need to worry aboutthis specific thing or like this
specific thing, or we're notgonna be able to make that
happen for you.
So I think figuring out whatyou can control and what you can
put your energy into is reallyimportant because it's finite,
(17:08):
you don't.
You know you can't be sittingthere panicking over your bad
Kirkus review or whatever endsup happening.
You need to focus instead onthe positive.
So, going into this debut, I'vebeen not much more relaxed,
obviously, because I thinkyou're always going to be a
little bit stressed.
But it helps to know.
You know what.
What is, what is a big deal andwhat definitely isn't so I've
(17:30):
tried to, like you know, in ourdiscord, like not be I'm not
some wise voice of reason oranything, but I.
It's helpful, I think, to havesomebody tell you straight up
like an author and I definitelydid when I was going through my
first debuting um, having authorfriends or different people be
like don't, you don't need toworry about that, that is not
(17:51):
worth getting stressed out over.
And and here's the things thatare like you know, I was before
I had um, my newsletter.
I I was like okay, should I bedoing this?
Should I be doing this?
Like now that I have this bookcoming out next year?
And and Martha Waters, anotherromance author, was like you
don't need to do anything.
Like you don't even have acover, you don't have I didn't
even have pre-order links at thetime Like.
(18:11):
She was like you're notactually missing out on anything
, you're not, you can just dialit back.
And then I was like what abouta newsletter?
And she was like actually,because, start gathering people
now, sure you're, and theirexpectations are not going to be
like, show me the cover rightaway, show me like all this.
So obviously in the romancewriting world, newsletters are
really important.
I mean they're importanteverywhere, but romance readers
(18:33):
really gravitate towardsnewsletters, so I'm really glad
I started that love that, lovethat.
J.D. Myall (18:41):
Um, let's see um.
What strategies have youstarted as far as like building
an author platform?
Have you been?
Emma Thuraut (18:53):
Well, definitely the newsletter.
So that was, I think, importantto get out of not get out of
the way, but to get a footing inthat world, and I put a little
bit more effort into it than Iwould have before, I think.
So I'm trying to, like, youknow, plan things out, think
about what readers want to seespecifically from to.
Like you know, plan things out,think about what readers want
to see specifically from authorsand, you know, not just send
(19:13):
out like pointless newsletters,like I think a lot of authors
are really really good atknowing exactly like Victoria
Schwab's newsletter.
Like every time I get it it'slike settling in to read like
the most like interesting letteryour coolest friend sends you.
You know, like, like.
So it's just like looking atwhat other authors are doing
really well and trying toemulate it as best as I can.
(19:35):
So it's, it's important, I think, to like know what will work
for you.
Like you don't have to do whateveryone is doing.
You don't have to do all thethings that you see people doing
.
You don't know what they've gotgoing on in their lives or what
sort of energy they can bring,but picking those little things
that can work for you and thenbuilding upon them.
So, like I don't want to burnout with promo long before the
(19:56):
book comes out.
But you know it's fun to makethat little Canva post that has
your release date, that you justfound out and, like you know,
mention that in your newsletterand stuff like that.
So I'm definitely going to, Ithink I might do, I'm going to
maybe get some art done, I think.
So I'll see.
I'm going to discuss with theteam because I don't know what
their expectations are there,but I'd really love to have some
(20:16):
sort of print or something thatI can include or at least
reference back to when I talkabout my book and stuff like
that.
Yeah, it's just, it's funfinding what works best for you,
I think.
J.D. Myall (20:27):
I like that.
So, with your newsletter, whatare the elements you think that
you're thinking of including,like?
Is it going to be personalnarrative?
Is it going to be sharingthings you love?
Emma Thuraut (20:36):
Yeah.
So my favorite thing, myfavorite newsletters, are just
people talking about what theylove.
Like I love what people areinterested in and what they're
passionate about, even if it'snot something that I'm
interested in.
And in fact I'd prefer it if Iknow nothing about it.
So you know it's my last onethat I just sent out.
I've only done two.
So my last, my first one, wassort of the here's my journey so
(20:58):
far, like a bit longer of aversion of what I've told you,
and it was really interesting.
Actually, after I sent it out,I got got one, two or three
different emails from, or dmsfrom, people being like oh, I'm
like you know, I'm in a similarplace as you were and I'm just
so.
It's so nice that you're sharinglike the ups and downs, and to
(21:19):
me it's like I wasn't trying tobe particularly like open.
I just that's just how I talkabout it.
You know I'm not going tosugarcoat, so that that pinged
in my brain as like you knowpeople, like you know
authenticity, or like tellingthe truth about certain parts of
your journey.
So I'm never going to shy awayfrom that.
But I also love to just talkabout the things that I love.
(21:40):
So in my last one I decided thatI do not not a full book club,
because obviously I don't havethat many readers, readers yet,
but it's fun to build it up.
So I'm gonna start reading likebacklist romance from like
legends and like the books thatI missed.
As you know, I didn't reallystart my romance reading journey
until like aside from what youknow, I stole from, like my mom
(22:03):
when I was like a you know, ateenager, but my journey really
began in 2020, so I feel likethere's so much I missed.
So I'm going to go on thislittle mini journey through my
newsletter where I read theselike amazing books that aren't,
you know, being hyped about onbook talk right now because they
came out 20 plus years ago.
So yeah, so that's going to befun, I think, and hopefully
(22:26):
people join in and stuff and itcan become like a discussion.
J.D. Myall (22:30):
I love that.
That's cute.
Yeah, what do you think you didright that helps you break in
and become the novelist, andtwice the view that you are.
Emma Thuraut (22:48):
I think that the most important quality that I
honed or like clung to, ispersistence.
You know, if you don't enteryour career in 2016 and emerge
in 2024 with like only one bookout and like one in the works,
without knowing that there wereso many places where I wanted to
give up, where it didn'tnecessarily feel worth it to me
(23:12):
in that moment, but I never,ever, allowed myself to like I'm
.
I never gave myself permissionto quit, even though I knew I
had it.
It was like no, but what?
At the end of the day, what Iwant to do more than quit is
keep going.
More than quit is keep going.
(23:33):
So I knew that I had to want itmore than I wanted, Like I had
to want to write more than Iwanted to be published.
So that was important to me andif that ever changed, if I ever
decided, you know, the writingisn't fun anymore or I can't, I
can't do this anymore, then Iwould have quit.
So persistence is like such anunderrated quality, I think, to
have in this industry and to anycreative industry, because
there's so many no's along theway, there's so much that can
(23:58):
derail a career.
So, yeah, it's just deciding.
It's worth it to keep going andthat you are passionate about
what you're doing.
So every time I've talked aboutit with with friends like, or
with readers that's that's whatI say Like you have to want it
so bad that you don't mind thehard parts.
J.D. Myall (24:19):
What are the core elements of a successful novel
Like what do you think makes agood book?
Emma Thuraut (24:25):
I think that the most important is not
necessarily your craft on aprose level, it's the inability
for a reader to put a book down,and you can't really teach that
.
You can try, you can get betterat it, of course, like once
you're anffable quality.
You know like people love tocomplain about some of these
(24:51):
really popular book talk booksbecause they're not well-written
.
But what I think that a lot ofpeople don't realize is that
there's so much more to writingthan just having beautiful prose
and those authors aresucceeding at a really difficult
part of writing and that'shooking readers from the start
and like not letting let, notletting them, let go until the
(25:13):
end.
So if that's something that Ican improve upon, I would love
to improve upon that, becauseyou can't teach it.
I don't think it's like youneed to read a lot to try to
break down what they're doingright and at the end the day,
these are just authors for whomthat talent is like a very
natural part of their process, Ithink.
J.D. Myall (25:33):
I love that.
What makes a good villain?
Emma Thuraut (25:39):
What makes a good villain or antagonist?
Yeah, yeah, I think you knowit's cliche at this point, but
it's that they're not thevillain in their own story.
Like they, their drive is socompelling and it's almost that
you want.
You want to be able tounderstand the villain.
You're not supporting them, butI love a villain, where I'm
(25:59):
reading it and I'm like, yes,like this makes sense, this is
earned.
This sort of like antagonismbetween the characters is
believable.
So you want a real person orcreature or whatever, but they
have to like earn their villainy.
So I love it when it makessense.
So a cartoonish villain is notmy favorite type of villain, but
(26:23):
obviously they have their placeas well.
J.D. Myall (26:27):
And what makes a good protagonist.
Emma Thuraut (26:30):
Somebody that you can't let go of.
I don't like Susie Townsend.
My old agent always says thatshe'll follow a good character
anywhere, and I think thatthat's just such a true
sentiment for any reader who'sever enjoyed a book Like you
know.
You can be sitting there andyou can.
You can be terrified of wherewe might end up, or you know
like just dreading what couldcome, but you're like no, I'm
(26:53):
with this character.
J.D. Myall (26:54):
I'm I'll go anywhere with them, Like that's just.
I would be on this journey withthem if I could Hold on.
I'm going to stop recordingreal quick, Okay.
So how do you avoid?
Emma Thuraut (27:12):
this saggy middle.
How do you keep readers engagedthroughout the whole novel?
Oh boy, I think for mefollowing a structure is
important.
So I do use the save the catbeat sheet.
I do it loosely, like I'm notmarried to it, and if something
needs to change that's fine.
But that's helped me in the pastand I think that a lot of
writers just naturally writeusing like a mental beat sheet.
Like the first time Iencountered Save the Cat was
(27:35):
when I was writing the book thatwe the very first book we tried
to sell, and I had alreadywritten like half or two thirds
of it, and so when I was goingthrough the beat sheet I
realized I had hit a lot ofthose notes already.
So it's like a very it can be avery natural process, but it's
also it's a great thing to holdyour hand to, because you know
(27:57):
Writing a book is hard and Inever learned how to do it like
I did go to my high school.
My high school was an arts highschool and I went for writing.
But you know, nobody can teachyou in high school or like even
some university programs likehow to sit down and write a
novel, because it's such apersonal experience.
So I think Save the Cat wasgreat for me, but I know a lot
of authors who use like the fiveact structure or like three act
(28:17):
structure.
So it's not leaning on thesethings, but it's using them when
you know it can be helpful.
So if you're in a point with thesagging middle and you're like
you know what am I supposed todo next, I think that finding
that corresponding thing andsave the cat and you can twist
it too.
You know it doesn't have to,you don't have to follow it
exactly, but, uh, it's if it wasnatural for us as a writer.
I think it's natural for areader to to read it and have
(28:39):
certain expectations.
So it can be really helpful.
So that's what I rely on.
Um, and also, just like youknow, if it's not working for me
as I'm writing, I have to thengrapple with the idea that I've
done something wrong.
You know, back down the lineand I have to go back and figure
out where the wrong turn was.
So it's just listening to myinstincts about story and being
(29:01):
like OK, I have to admit tomyself that if this is hard to
write in this way, I must havedone something wrong.
J.D. Myall (29:11):
And how do you come up with a satisfying conclusion,
like how do you end yourstories?
Emma Thuraut (29:14):
Oh man, I think it's the.
As a reader, I always want moreum at the end of my favorite
books, so it's finding thebalance between giving like the
satisfying end but also justlike just a little bit more Like
.
I don't know if you've read, Ijust watched the Idea of you,
that Anne Hathaway movie, and Idon't want to spoilers or
(29:36):
whatever, but in the movie ithas a quite happy ending.
But I got the book, I went towork the next day and
immediately bought the book andstarted reading it, and the book
apparently does not have thathappy ending.
So I think it's going to be areally interesting study.
In contrast, because the bookhad such a devoted following
even without the happy ending.
So I'm really intrigued to readhow she makes it end and then
(29:57):
how the movie did it as well.
So I think you just have toit's.
I hate to talk about earningthings again, but, like it is
just, you can write the endingthat you've earned, as as
throughout the rest rest of thebook, so you're giving them what
they want, but it's so I thinkit's so important to just leave
a little bit more so that thereader can fill in the blanks,
kind of, as to what they wantedthe ending to be as well love
(30:20):
that, love that, love that.
J.D. Myall (30:23):
All right, I'm gonna backtrack a little, because I
should have asked you thisearlier.
Um, you talked about thesubmission process.
What was your editor call like?
Was it on Zoom?
Was it on the phone?
Emma Thuraut (30:35):
I have not had an editor call.
Actually it happened aroundChristmas, so I think it was
just such a crazy part of theseason.
So I knew that I was told thatI'd get an offer in January.
And then in January I got theoffer.
And then I you know in our longemails to each other, since
that's when we've talked but Idid not have an editor call
(30:57):
right away.
So I am having a call soon, sohopefully I'll get some more
info then but yeah in her emails.
She's effusive, she's great,she's like super solid, she's
effusive, she's great, she'slike super solid.
I feel very lucky to have herbecause I, you know, like I did
(31:17):
study history, so I am like veryparticular about getting things
right.
And even with all thatattention, I still got forms of
address wrong in, like VictorianEngland and stuff like that,
and she's very well versed inthat.
J.D. Myall (31:27):
So she's like the perfect partner and stuff like
that and she's very well versedin that, so she's like the
perfect partner.
I love that.
Yeah, and you know, you'reprobably fortunate because when
I had my call, I froze like adeer in headlights.
Oh my God, I would have too.
Thank God Susie was on the callso she could take up some of
that.
Yeah, and I interviewed peopleall the time.
That's what the agent is goodfor.
I've even interviewedcelebrities and stuff.
(31:48):
Perfectly fine, but becausethis was such a lifelong dream
and she had the power to get tome or not, I froze Wow.
Emma Thuraut (31:58):
I'm sure it's, I'm sure it's more common than we
think Mouth wide waiting for thefinest, not my finest, moment.
J.D. Myall (32:05):
Yeah, I would be the exact same way, but at least
now you can go yeah, at leastnow you can go with the
confidence that you already havethe deal, you know exactly, so
you can have a normalconversation yeah what has been
your biggest surprise so far?
Emma Thuraut (32:23):
um with the publishing journey my biggest
surprise, just how um fulfillingit becomes when you, when you
hear from readers like I knewthat obviously that would be a
really enjoyable part of theprocess.
But you know, writing an iconiccharacter like Belle, you know
(32:45):
people have a lot ofexpectations going in.
So I sort of hardened myselfbefore it came out where I was,
like you know, I I wrote thebook I wanted to write and I'm
proud of it.
But like, obviously she's acharacter that so many people
have loved for so long.
Like I'm going to disappointsome people and so that was my
attitude going in.
Like it's okay if people aredisappointed, and so I didn't
(33:05):
leave room to expect that somepeople would still really like
it, didn't leave room to expectthat some people would still
really like it.
So hearing from them has justbeen so amazing.
And like people who get what Iwas doing with Belle.
So that has been just such aheartwarming part of the process
.
And you like to think like I'mso hard, I don't need, like I
don't need people to approve ofit or whatever.
(33:26):
But then you get that DM from areader.
That's just like you know, youwrote bell exactly how I
imagined her, or you did this orwhatever like that, and it's
like, okay, it's that connectionthat we're all looking for,
right, like the way that youread a book and you read one
line in a book and it justreaches into your exact
experience and you're like, okay, I'm not alone.
So, having read, having been areader my whole life and had
(33:49):
having those moments, it's soamazing when you realize that
you can have that moment as awriter.
So I've loved that.
J.D. Myall (33:57):
And what tips do you have for historical romance
writers?
Emma Thuraut (34:00):
Oh boy, okay.
Well, I think the biggest oneis that you have to have more
than one idea, because romancereaders are voracious.
So my book deal is a three bookdeal Because I it's in the same
vein as Bridgerton.
It's going to follow thesiblings in a family.
Siblings in a family, um, andyeah.
(34:26):
So it's such a vibrant and likeexcited community that you're
gonna want to read a lot ofromance, like in every sub-genre
contemporary sci-fi, likeeverything, um, get your footing
in it.
So I think that you know, whenI read 70 plus in a row, like
that was like my education in itreally quick.
And I was only really able to dothat because of the pandemic so
small silver lining and to justlike it's such a beautiful
(34:48):
community that I think you needto put yourself out there so
early with other writers ofromance because they're they're
your peers and with romance, youknow, with the events, the
signings, the things like that,like you find your community
there and, um, just reaching outto people that you admire and
respect, like I can't believesome of the people that I
(35:09):
consider friends now afterreading their gorgeous,
beautiful books, um, so it's,it's really a community-based,
uh, genre and category, so withreaders and writers.
So you know, I've been lookingat conventions now, just sort of
getting an idea of them andit's just it's amazing how they
come together and they'll bringhundreds of authors in and
(35:31):
thousands of readers and it'sjust so different.
It's not different from YA,it's just they know what they're
doing with romance.
Conventions and like YA cansort of be hard to like.
Y'all Fest and Y'all West aregreat and stuff like that but I
just feel like they've got itdown in the romance community
and it just really highlightshow important it is to develop
(35:51):
these relationships with yourpeers and with readers as well.
So you have to be open to that.
So for historical romancespecifically, though, I think
readers are very discerning.
I've seen a lot of reviews nowthat I'm like looking into this
world and people can be veryparticular about how modern
(36:14):
characters can seem like I.
There's so many authors I loveand whose books I love but who
get sort of trashed for writinglike overtly feminist characters
sometimes, you know, and peopleare like, well, that's not how
Victorian women were or that'snot how.
So it's important, I think, todo your research so that you
understand that, though theywere different, there were
(36:35):
definitely feminist women inVictorian and Regency England
and their, their stories wereimportant.
So I think it's finding therealism um, I've Sarah McClain
has talked about this where shesays, like you know, all of all
of her characters have a basisin reality.
She's not inventing feminism,for for the reason it's like
(36:57):
these women have always existed.
So it's doing your research.
But it's also just understandingthat, much like with Rebel Rose
and a character that's iconicas Belle, you can't please
everybody.
So you can tie yourself up intoknots about getting everything
perfect, but at the end of theday, one reader is going to
absolutely love what you did andanother one's going to trash it
.
So it's feeling comfortablewith the research that you do,
(37:21):
with the work you put into itand just letting go at the end
of the day.
So I did as much research as Icould, I put as much history
into it as I could, but I wantedmy characters to live and
breathe as well.
So I didn't want to be tied downtoo tightly to conventions that
won't speak to a modern reader,but I also didn't want to
disrespect history, you know.
(37:42):
So it's finding a balance there.
But I I love watching everymovie I can get my hands on set
in that timeframe and readingbooks written by contemporary,
at the time, authors to get areal feel for how things were.
So it's sort of like immersingyourself into as much of that
world as you can and then justdoing what you want, what you
want with it.
J.D. Myall (38:02):
So I love that.
What does your writing processlook like now?
Emma Thuraut (38:09):
I have to not be a slow writer anymore.
I'm very I'm a perfectionist,so it tends to take me a very
long time to get a first draftdone.
But then my editing process ispretty straightforward.
So it's like you know, it'seither going to be I'm going to
write a trash draft and thenedit it forever, or my way,
which is like, keep going, I, Irewrite and rewrite, so so
(38:31):
constantly.
You know, like my writingsessions, when I sit down it's
like reading everything I'vewritten up until that point and
then starting it.
So it can be, it can becomequite slow, but I do then, like
I said, emerge with a prettyclean draft.
So I just have to somehow keepdoing that but also write faster
.
So you know, like I said, theromance timeline is quite quick.
(38:54):
So I have to write book two inthe next couple of months and
I'm hoping that just by sheerforce of will I can change the
way I've written for so long.
I did write Rebel Rose ratherquickly, so I know I can do it.
So I just have to put it intopractice now.
J.D. Myall (39:10):
Did Rebel Rose sell on proposal or did you have to
write?
Or did you write the full page?
Emma Thuraut (39:14):
no, so I auditioned with um.
I think what I was told was10,000 words or three chapters,
and I wrote a prologue plusthree chapters and submitted
that and then, yeah, it's IP.
Yeah, I didn't know.
J.D. Myall (39:30):
Rebel Rose was IP.
That's cool.
Who was it?
Through Disney, okay, okay, Iknew the first one was Disney,
but the second one I didn't.
Oh, it's Disney, yeah, so.
Emma Thuraut (39:40):
Rebel Rose is my Disney book, and then A Lady
Would Know Better is my romance.
Okay, so that one.
I wrote the whole thing andsold it like that.
And then Rebel Rose was theaudition one.
So, okay, yeah, yeah, but thisone, no, the historical romance
I wrote the whole thing and thenI had pretty extensive pitches
for books two and three, andthen that's why I think they
bought all three, but in aperfect world.
J.D. Myall (40:06):
I'll be able to write all the siblings in the
series, and that would be sixbooks.
So we'll see Awesome.
Emma Thuraut (40:11):
Thank you, I love it.
J.D. Myall (40:11):
So you're loving the Disney life right now, which is
a good thing.
Emma Thuraut (40:14):
I you know it came out a while ago, so we do have.
Since mine came out first.
We've had a Mulan book in thesame series by Livia Blackburn,
and Alexandra Munir wrote theJasmine book which came out last
year and this year.
Sarah Rash is well, it'salready done.
(40:35):
Obviously her Sleeping Beautybook is coming out, so hopefully
I'll get to write more in theseries, but you know it's out of
my hands.
But I definitely have ideas.
J.D. Myall (40:46):
Out of curiosity and you cannot answer.
If you can't answer, do theygive you guys any theme park
perks, like do you get freetickets?
No, I wish.
Emma Thuraut (40:57):
Alex got to do a fun event last year where she
spoke at Disney World.
So you know, I think there'sstuff like that, but I've never
been to Disney World or land, somaybe I'll email my editor if
I'm ever planning to go be like,hey, any chance?
Yeah, no.
I wish.
J.D. Myall (41:16):
Which is easier for you writing an original idea or
doing IP, where they provide theidea.
Emma Thuraut (41:24):
Original for sure, because with the IP, even
though I was able to change itso much to what I envisioned the
story being, it's still at theend of the day, it's not my
characters, it's not.
I did get to write newcharacters, obviously in the
book, and so there was like theopportunity to be creative and
original in that way.
But yeah, at the end of the dayit's like a tale as old as time
(41:46):
.
I didn't invent it, so I dolove writing my own books, but
writing IP was such a funchallenge that I I have nothing
against it and would definitelydo it again.
But what's interesting is thatI've never written fan fiction,
so I never did.
I never read it.
Growing up I didn't write it.
I'm a little bit too married tothe idea that the author is the
(42:08):
only one that can tell me aboutthese characters, but I respect
it immensely and I know thatit's been such a pivotal part of
a lot of people's writingjourneys has been writing fanfic
first and then obviously.
Obviously it's pretty funny tome that my first published novel
is essentially sanctionedfanfiction.
J.D. Myall (42:32):
I was just going to say.
What's funny too, is how commonIP is.
Yeah, but most people don'trealize that it's like a part of
publishing, but it's how a lotof authors break in.
Emma Thuraut (42:42):
Oh, absolutely yeah and not even you know, it's
not even characters that weknow.
It's like in-house IP, wherethe editor comes up with an idea
and then yeah, so it's verycool.
I think Whatever opportunityyou can take to break into the
industry, I think is a great one.
J.D. Myall (43:01):
Exactly.
Just yesterday I interviewed anauthor who her book is getting
made into a Netflix series andit was IP and she has like tons
and tons of books now.
So you know Exactly, wouldn'thave known that, you know it's
IP, but she was saying that IPhas helped her keep the lights
on because she does her originalideas but she does IP every
(43:22):
year.
She's doing both amazing yeah,yeah.
Emma Thuraut (43:24):
No, I had such a great experience and like it was
only, I think you know, throughthe pandemic, the uncertainties
of the pandemic, that reallylike slowed us down a little bit
, like we had to delay book twoand stuff like that with the
series.
So I am hope I got.
I would love to write more forit.
So it really depends on ifpeople keep reading the series.
So it's been.
The cool thing is that it'sbeen translated in so many
(43:46):
different languages and you knowit's gone on a journey that I
don't know that my first book,if it wasn't IP, would have gone
on.
So that's a really cool thingtoo is like hearing from
Portuguese readers and Spanishreaders, french readers, german
readers, so that that that'sreally fun as well what would
you like to talk about that wehaven't covered?
(44:07):
I think you've done a reallygreat job, so I don't know that
there's anything that we haven'tdiscussed.
Uh, it's been a great interview, so, um well, I mean, I'd not
that it's part of the interview,but I'd love to know, like,
what's your book, your bookabout?
J.D. Myall (44:19):
My book is it's YA, it's a romantic, it's like it's
got time travel.
It's like Outlander meets thenight circus and it's easy.
Oh my God, those are amazingcomps.
Yeah, these two warring magicalfamilies and stuff like that.
Oh, what's the title?
Right now it's Heart's Gambit.
I don't know if that's whatthey're going to keep or not yet
(44:40):
, because we haven't got thatfar in.
I love the title.
Thank you, I'm coming out.
Fall of next year.
Emma Thuraut (44:45):
Oh, my God, that's so exciting.
I can't wait to read it.
When are you coming out exactly?
What's the exact date?
January 28th, okay, yeah, andI'm proposal and we're going to
go on out on proposal with theromanticist, so fingers crossed,
but an adult one.
J.D. Myall (45:01):
So yay, romanticist seems to be very hot right now.
Emma Thuraut (45:04):
Yeah, exactly, and , like I, you know, there's
expectations in the adultromanticist world, um, in terms
of like spice level and stufflike that.
And so I'm I'm grateful thatI've already written my romance
novel, my historical romance,and now I feel a little bit more
confident in that realm.
So, you know, obviously notevery romance, see books, needs
to have that, but I, just as areader, that's what I gravitate
(45:25):
towards, so that's what I'mhoping to achieve.
J.D. Myall (45:29):
That's awesome.
So what's the Canada writingcommunity like?
Emma Thuraut (45:32):
Well, we're so.
We're such a large country soit's very hard to be super close
.
You know, like, if there's anevent in Toronto I can sometimes
it's four hours away, so it'snot that close but I have gone.
You know, when writing friendshave had their events in Toronto
, it's like a nice opportunityto go and meet them.
So you know, I went and metVictoria Aveyard in Toronto a
couple years ago and, like, myfriend Alwyn Hamilton was there
(45:56):
a few years ago.
So I try to take thatopportunity when I can.
Um, but you know, ottawa has itsown sort of right now the
Ottawa International WritersFest is going on and they don't
really do a lot of YA or sort ofromance events.
So let's hope we change that.
But the bookstore I work atlike provides the books for it
(46:16):
and stuff.
So I feel pretty connected tothe writing community, even if
it's not like in the way that Iwould love, you know, like if we
could do romance panels andstuff like that.
So that's why I'm so happy thatyou know readers, people the
girl I was talking to earliertaking the initiative to sort of
like pitch these kinds ofevents because there's an
audience for it and like, like Isaid, there's like six of us
(46:39):
who live in Ottawa, so weabsolutely should be joining
forces and doing stuff like that.
But the other great thing aboutOttawa is that I am pretty close
to New York and stuff.
So not that I've had theopportunity to, but you know,
when I was going to go to BEAand stuff, it wouldn't be quite
the journey like that it wouldbe if I was on like the West
coast or something so.
But I did get to go to umComic-Con, san Diego Comic-Con,
(47:02):
a couple years ago for RebelRose, like we did a Disney thing
.
So that was amazing and haslike totally convinced me that
if I'm ever asked if I want todo things like that, I
absolutely want to do themforever, going forward like
however difficult it might makea travel day or something like I
would go yeah, difficult itmight make a travel day or
something like I would go.
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