March 29, 2025 • 54 mins
Join us as New York Times bestselling author Sadiqa Johnson shares lessons on crafting bestsellers. Embark on a literary voyage with us as I, JD Myall, sit down with Sadiqa Johnson, a celebrated author known for her gripping novels like 'The Yellow Wife.' Sadiqa's journey is a testament to the power of storytelling and persistence, marked by her significant accolades, including her most recent novel, 'The House of Eve,' which became an instant New York Times Best Seller, a Target book club pick, Reese’s Book Club selection, and a NAACP Image Award nominee.
In today’s episode of 'Craft Chat Chronicles,' we delve into the nuances of historical fiction, exploring how Sadiqa crafts memorable characters and vivid settings that keep readers enthralled from the first page to the last. Join us as we discuss the intricacies of her writing process, from the initial concept to the final draft, and uncover the strategies behind her successful writing career.
We'll also get a glimpse into the writing rituals that fuel her creativity, from constructing vision boards to creating the perfect ambient setup for writing sessions. Sadiqa generously shares her wisdom on penning novels that resonate deeply with readers and offers invaluable advice for both aspiring and established authors. Don’t miss this inspiring session filled with practical tips and heartfelt stories about overcoming challenges and celebrating the milestones of a literary career.
Join JD Myall from Writer's Digest and Drexel University on 'Craft Chat Chronicles' for an engaging conversation with one of today's leading voices in historical fiction. Tune in for an episode packed with insights on crafting bestsellers and effective strategies for book marketing and publishing success.
#BestsellingAuthorTips, #HistoricalFiction, #CraftingBestsellers, #PublishingIndustryInsights, #WritingStrategies, #AuthorSuccessStories, #WritingCareerTransition, #WritingCraft #NarrativeDevelopment, #BookMarketingStrategies, #CreativeWritingTechniques, #NYTimesBestsellingProcess, #AuthorInterviews, #BookPromotion, #LiteraryAgents, #RealLifeExperiences #Publishing #WritingTips
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to Craft Chat Chronicles, the go-to podcast
for tips on craftingbest-selling fiction.
Here at Craft Chat Chronicles,we bring you expert interviews,
insights and tips on writing,publishing and marketing.
For workshops, show notes andmore information, visit
(00:25):
jdmyhacom.
Nomi (00:31):
Welcome everybody to an alumni Drexel MFA Alumni
Association evening craft chat.
J Myhall is our fabulous alumnimember who is hosting this
evening's get together with theincredible Sadiqa Johnson.
I'm going to stop blathering onand let JD take it away.
Sadeqa Johnson (00:56):
Thank you, Naomi .
J.D. Myall (00:59):
Hi everybody.
Sadiqa is our star of tonight'sshow.
You see my curtain.
Sadeqa Johnson (01:07):
I love the curtain, by the way.
J.D. Myall (01:09):
Thank you, she is an author of five books.
She's a New York Timesbestselling novelist.
She is one of the greatestpacket exchange teachers you'll
ever have.
She wrote two of my favoritesthe Yellow Wife and House of Eve
.
House of Eve is a ReeseWitherspoon book club pick and
recently Goodreads chose it asthe best historical fiction
(01:33):
novel.
So she's been doing big things,as always, and it's still just
as sweet and gracious as the dayI first met her.
So let's start asking her a fewquestions.
I first met her, so let's startasking her a few questions.
When you were younger, did youhave a mirror book or a book
that made you feel as if you sawyourself?
Sadeqa Johnson (01:51):
reflected on the page, wow.
Well, before I answer thatquestion one, I want to say
thank you for the invitation,nomi, and thank you guys for
taking time out on a busyWednesday night, 530.
I know it's that tricky time,particularly if you have kids
and that sort of thing, so I'mreally grateful that you guys
chose to spend this time with me.
When I was a kid, I was thegirl who went to the library
(02:16):
every Monday, particularly inthe summertime.
I would dress up, my librarycard had a special little pouch
that I kept it in and I wouldcheck seven books out each week.
I would read a book a day andthen I would go back the
following week.
So my librarians knew me byname and they always made sure
that there were books for me atthe ready.
(02:38):
It took a while for me toactually find books where I saw
myself on the page.
I would say the earliest bookthat I remember was more in my
teenage years, not my youngeryears.
The first book that I rememberwas Maya Angelou's.
I Know why the Caged Bird Sings, and I was in high school and I
remember reading the book, soenraptured in her story that I
(03:05):
was hiding out in one of theclassrooms because my friends
wanted me to come outside.
I grew up in Philadelphia so wejumped double dutch during
lunch and my friends wanted meto come out and jump double
dutch with them and I just couldnot stop reading this book.
And so I read all of herbiographies.
And then the next time Iremember really having that same
(03:26):
feeling was Terry McMillan'sbook.
Mama and I identified withFrida.
I still remember her name.
It was one of the few booksthat I read more than once,
because as soon as I finished Iwas like, oh my gosh, I picked
it back up and read it again.
So that was the beginning of meseeing myself and then probably
(03:48):
the seeds being planted that,wow, there's a power in writing
your story as authentically andtruly as possible.
In order to get to the currentnovel, I probably have to take
you back just a little bit tojust deciding that I was going
to be a writer, which I know isa hard thing for most of us,
(04:11):
right?
Because most parents want us togrow up and be doctors and
lawyers and engineers andsomething tangible, so that they
know that you're going to payyour own bills and you won't be
coming to them for money.
So when I was a kid, I wanted tobe an actress.
That was my goal.
And I went to college in NewYork City specifically because I
(04:32):
thought, well, I'll go toschool.
And I didn't go to school tograduate, I went to school to be
discovered.
And so my thought was I wouldbe.
I went to Marymount ManhattanCollege.
I thought I'll be there for twoor three weeks, I'll get some
auditions, I'll be on.
I went to Marymount ManhattanCollege.
I thought I'll be there for twoor three weeks, I'll get some
auditions, I'll be on Broadwayand the rest will be.
You know, that will be it.
Well, once I graduated fromschool and actually switched my
(04:56):
major and I went intocommunications because I thought
, well, goodness gracious, thisacting thing is not easy, right,
like knocking on doors, begging, asking people to like pick me,
was not an easy thing.
And so I thought, well, let megraduate with a communications
degree so I have something tofall back on.
And my first job was inpublishing.
So I worked at Scholastic Booksand I was a publicist and I
(05:20):
worked on the first Harry Potterbooks, which was really an
exciting time for me.
So while I was there is when Istarted working on my first
novel.
But that, that first novel youknow, being surrounded by books
and haven't had a readingbackground, and I also, because
I was in New York, was likeheavy into the poetry scene.
So we would go to like NewYorican cafe and talk real slick
(05:42):
and, you know, get into thatvibe.
And that was a mixture ofwriting and theater.
So I absolutely loved it.
But working in publishing gaveme sort of an outlet because I
was surrounded by authors and Ithought, well, what's the
difference between them and me?
It can't be too great.
So I started working on myfirst novel while at Scholastic.
(06:04):
It never saw the light of day,but from there I start taking
writing classes.
So I'm a big, you know.
I teach in the MFA program, ofcourse, but I also feel like you
have to continue to study yourcraft, like you never get to the
point where you got it right.
I'm working on a new novel rightnow And'm constantly Googling,
(06:24):
like how to write a synopsis oh,that's a great way to write a
synopsis or part one what needsto happen in part one?
So I'm always constantly stillstudying as well.
Even though I've written fivebooks and so I was taking
writing classes.
I started on my first novel andI worked on that novel
(06:44):
constantly.
I started it probably in 2000and I was working on it while I
was at work.
I was working on it back andforth on the train between New
York and New Jersey and finallyI got to the point where I said
you know what?
I'm married, my son was aboutto be born and I had written a
(07:05):
few drafts of this novel and Ithought this is the time I'm
going to quit my job, I'm goingto get my novel out and I'm
going to take care of my son.
And I remember having thisconversation with my husband and
he was like you're going toquit your job.
And I'm like yeah, like I haveit under control.
I have relationships withpeople in publishing.
(07:27):
So that first book went out tomarket.
I got an agent very quicklybecause I did have some
relationships.
But it went out to market.
It went to 10 different editorsand, one by one, every single
one of those editors told me noand I was left right back where
I started.
And this journey had taken solong that when I told my husband
(07:50):
I was going to quit my job, Iwas pregnant with our first
child by now.
I had three little babieslooking up at me wondering like
mommy, what's for dinner.
And I'm on the phone nearly intears because, once again, all
of the publishers told me no.
So that was sort of thepublishers told me no.
So that was sort of thebeginning of publishing for me.
J.D. Myall (08:10):
Can you tell them about your journey from
self-published to now?
Sadeqa Johnson (08:15):
Yeah.
So after that devastatingmoment when I realized that my
book was not going to bepublished, my husband was sort
of like, ok, so what do we needto do to get this book out in
the world?
And I said, well, we need aneditor.
And he said, why don't we justhire an editor?
And I thought, like it was likeI knew that self-publishing was
(08:38):
a vehicle but I was so rigidlyattached to doing it the
traditionally publishing waybecause that's what I knew.
But it was almost like themoment I said yes to it,
everything opened up.
It's not for the faint at heart.
So I don't want to make it likeit's this easy thing, because
self-publishing self is the keyword, right.
(09:01):
So I was the sales manager.
I literally would call upbookstores and use an alias.
My friends call me D and mymaiden name is Murray.
So I would call up the localbookstore and be like hey,
little bookshop, hey, mahoganyBooks, this is D Murray, calling
from 12th Street Press.
I got this great booklovingving to Carry on Bag.
(09:23):
Can I send you a couple ofcopies?
We literally was going up anddown the East Coast with
retractables and going to everybook festival where we could buy
a table and then I'm standingon the street hoaxing people
over to my table.
I had candy, I had cute kidswith Loving to Carry on t-shirts
(09:43):
, like anything you could thinkof.
We were out there doing it, andso it was definitely a street
hustle to begin.
It wasn't just, it wasgrassroots is probably the
better way to say it.
There was a lot of grassrootsin the beginning of my
publishing journey, but we justkept at it.
We did this for over a year ortwo and I finally was nominated
(10:07):
for the Phyllis Wheatley Award,which was an award connected to
the Harlem Book Festival, whichwas one of those ones that I
came.
You know, I was on stage, I hadmusicians, I mean I thought
with a theater background, itwas very easy to to up the ante
a little bit and make myselfstand out from the other authors
.
And so from there I won thePhyllis Wheatley Award and after
(10:29):
I won that award, my editor andI think you guys have met
Cherise Fisher, who's my agent,but she was my editor at the
time and I remember she wastrying to help me find an agent
and I said to her I said no oneloves me the way you do I said
you really need to be my agent.
And at the same moment she wasstarting to feel like she wanted
(10:50):
to transition into agenting.
And so that's how we went fromthe editorial relationship to
the agent relationship.
Well, she took my next novel tomarket and she came back to me
and she said well, we're goingto let everybody think about it
over the weekend and I'll callyou on.
And she said well, we're gonnalet everybody think about it
over the weekend and I'll callyou on Monday.
But you remember I had gonethrough this already, right,
(11:12):
standing, waiting, hoping, and Iremember the first time I was
like God, just anybody.
Like I'll take anybody Anybody,please say yes.
But now I've been around theblock a little bit, right.
And so my prayer changed to letme be able to choose who I want
to have a relationship with.
Right, because now I've learnedsome things and I realized that
I'm bringing something to thetable too, and I think that's
(11:33):
what we as writers sometimesforget, is that we want to be
chosen, but we also need torecognize what our worth is and
what we're bringing to the table.
And so my thought changed and myprayer changed, and so when
Sharif called me on that Mondayshe said I have three from three
different publishing housesthat would love to publish your
(11:56):
book.
Why don't we sit down and lookat these offers and see which
one is giving you something thatyou have not already given
yourself?
Right, because I had alreadyput out a book myself, I could
easily do it again.
So who of these three areoffering you something?
And so St Martin's Press hadoffered me a hardcover, and they
had offered me a two-book deal,and so that was the beginning
(12:20):
for me, going fromself-published into
traditionally published.
Awesome.
J.D. Myall (12:28):
Let's see.
Can you share insight on yourwriting process?
Sadeqa Johnson (12:35):
So my writing process I am a full-time writer,
I was.
I was I, you know, when my kidswere home I felt like I was a
full-time mom and a part-timeyou know writer.
But now my kids are teenagersand they're all off to school
and and for the last few years,I would say since Yellow Wife I
felt pretty much like this wasmy full-time job.
(12:57):
I try to get up.
It's been a little tricky, Ihave to be 100% honest.
When I had kids here anchoringmy time, then it was like get up
at six o'clock, drive this oneto the train, do this, do that.
And now I'm like gosh, I don'thave anybody to hold me
accountable, but my goal is tobe at my desk by 7.30.
(13:19):
So I wake up, I pray and Imeditate, and I always meditate
before I start my writing, and Ithink that that is a central
part of writing.
It's one that I hope that youall will take and adopt it for
yourself.
And so I try to meditate for 10to 15 minutes every morning
before I write, and what thatdoes is, first of all, it sort
(13:41):
of clears my head out, it makesspace for the creativity to flow
and it just gives a chance forideas to drop, in that maybe if
I didn't take that time to quietmy brain, my brain's all jumbly
so when I sit down to write,all that jumble is sort of in
the way of getting to my firstlayer of writing.
(14:01):
So I meditate first.
I try to do my morning pages.
This week I haven't been good atthem, but you know, three is a
lot for me.
So one or two morning pages isusually good, A little bit of a
gratitude list, a little bit ofspiritual music to kind of get
me and write, to write.
(14:21):
And then I spend anywherebetween four to five hours.
Writing is normal.
But when I'm really jammed upand having to get something out,
I'm shooting for that seven toeight hours a day writing.
And I write Monday throughFriday for the most part.
(14:43):
Sometimes Fridays I get alittle bit like oh, it's Friday,
I'll just do like two hours sothat I could say I did something
.
But it's the weekend and I dogive myself off for the weekend.
So I'm still thinking about thestory, but I'm not physically
at my desk writing the story,because your brain also needs a
little bit of space too fromwriting.
J.D. Myall (15:03):
Can you give us some advice on writing a
compelling opening Like what doyou think are the essential
elements of the first page?
Sadeqa Johnson (15:27):
the opening right Because the opening scene
is such a big deal.
What I do when I'm having amoment and I can't get that
opening scene right is I go readthe opening scenes of some of
my favorite books forinspiration.
I think the more you know yourcharacter.
So I always start withcharacter bios, like I have an
idea when I'm writing a novel,or I have a moment in history,
you know, like for Yellow Wife,I have a or I have a moment in
history, you know, like forYellow Wife, I knew I was
(15:48):
writing about this moment inhistory this jail.
You know this woman beingmarried um to, to the jailer, so
I knew this moment in history,um.
So then I have to find out allthe pieces around it.
But I'll do a a quick bio biosketch on my off, on my edit, on
my characters prior to, butthat's not their final bio, do
(16:10):
you know what I mean?
It's like sort of to get megoing so that I could kind of
get their backstory down andknow a little bit about them.
But as I go, draft to draft,that bio is going to change and
it's going to deepen.
So I think, a little bit ofknowing who your character is,
reading those opening pages ofyour favorite books to kind of
motivate you.
And also, you know, a lot oftimes I'll sit at my desk and
(16:35):
I'll write to my characters.
You know, for instance, now I'mworking with a character named
Sophia and I'll say to her likehey, sophia, what are you doing,
what's going on, how are youfeeling?
And I'll write that in myjournal and I'll try to hear her
response and write it as welltoo, so that we're making that
connection.
So those are some of the tricksthat I use to kind of get into
(16:58):
that story and start it off.
What makes a good villain?
I mean, I think, to begin with,you have to plunge your
characters into danger, right,we can't protect them.
We love them, we love them, welove them, but we have to plunge
them into danger.
Her wants how bad do they wantit?
(17:29):
How far are they willing to getit and what's in the way of
them getting it?
And what's in the way of themgetting it is often, usually
something that's pretty.
The stakes need to be prettyhigh, right, and so I don't
necessarily have villains asmuch as well.
I mean, I guess, if I thinkabout, well, villain always
makes me think of, like you know, a superhero book like Batman
(17:53):
is up against, you know, but inmy stories it's more, like you
know, like in Yellow Wife, itwas like Phoebe, and I guess you
would look at the jailer as hervillain, right?
Yes, okay, so if I'm thinking ofit in those terms, when I was
writing Yellow Wife and I wasthinking about writing the
character of the jailer, I knewthat he was a man with both ways
(18:14):
and never know which way he wasgoing to go was definitely the
challenge for me and, early on,the comment that I kept getting
(18:34):
back from my agent Sharice, waslike I can't see him, he's not
scary enough.
I don't believe it.
You got to go a little bitdeeper.
Which you want to have?
An agent, an editor, a critiquegroup around you that's going
to call you on that, becausethose type of comments are the
ones that make you better.
So I definitely struggled with.
I struggled a bit with makinghim full circle, but I think he
(18:57):
came together nicely in the end.
J.D. Myall (19:00):
How do you avoid the dreaded saggy middle?
Sadeqa Johnson (19:13):
middle that is.
I mean, who hates the saggingmiddle?
Please raise your hand, becausethat is totally me and actually
the novel that I'm working onnow.
I've been working on the firsthundred pages for probably far
too long, but it's probablybecause I am avoiding getting to
that squishy middle of thestory.
What I do is I break it downinto small bites, though.
So I always outline my storypart one, part two, part three.
(19:34):
For the most part that's how Ido it right.
So part one I'm usually kind ofjam and I know exactly what's
going on.
I know how part one's gonna end, I know how part two is gonna
end.
But it's all of those detailsin the middle of the story that
sometimes throw me off.
So I try and break it intochunks and again, I'm always
(19:54):
looking to up the ante for myprotagonist.
So you know, she wants this,she doesn't get it, she wants
this.
Oh, she really doesn't get it,she doesn't, she wants this.
And, oh my gosh, crash, crash,crash, crash.
(20:29):
Everything falls apart, and soI have to kind of break it down
into small chunks, what I'mworking towards.
That helps a little bit, butthe squishy middle is the
squishy middle y'all, and wejust got to stick with it like
trudging through the snow withno boots.
I love that.
J.D. Myall (20:41):
How do you craft a compelling end Like how do you
tie it all up with a bow at theend?
Sadeqa Johnson (20:47):
So my stories do not have a bow at the end.
I don't know how that happened,but it has.
I do like a nice tied up storywith a bow at the end, but none
of my novels are like that.
So what I'm trying to do when Iget to the end of the story,
when I'm writing a novel, I'mthinking that this is just a
moment in these characters'lives, right?
(21:07):
And so if it's six months inthis character's life, this is
what happens from beginning toend.
When I get to the end, I don'talways know an idea what's gonna
happen at the end of the story,but I don't have all the
details and sometimes, when I'min that squishy middle, that's
(21:32):
when I start getting those extralittle details that I need to
tie the story up.
I just trust myself through theprocess too.
So as I'm going through it, Ihave to trust myself and I have
to trust my characters, becauseoftentimes I will have a plan
for them, but then they drop aplan into me and their plan is
(21:53):
always better than the one thatI had.
So sometimes I'll you know,most times I will deviate and go
in their direction and it hurts, right it for me.
It hurts to like not stick tothat quick plan that I had and
to see the character veeringleft and it's like dang it, I
don't really want to go leftbecause I had all this planned
out.
But when I do go left it's like, oh, oh, yeah, that works.
So I'm always kind of trustingmyself through the process,
(22:17):
trusting my characters andgiving myself room to deviate
from that plan that I have,because it always gets better
that I have because it alwaysgets better.
J.D. Myall (22:33):
Love that.
How do you balance researchinghistorical fiction with creating
a compelling story Like?
How do you balance thehistorical accuracy with the
fantasy and the fiction?
Sadeqa Johnson (22:42):
Yeah.
So Yellow Wife was my fourthnovel and it was my first time
writing historical fiction andit wasn't anything that I had
planned.
I was very happy writingcontemporary fiction because
those first three books were allabout me.
Right, I could work out all mytherapy issues and all my family
(23:03):
issues and all my problems inthose first three books.
And then I'm on the RichmondSlave Trail in Richmond and just
feel the hairs on my arms standup as I'm walking on the
Richmond Slave Trail andeverything in my body is saying
you need to be paying attention.
And when I discovered the storyof Mary Lumpkins and the
(23:23):
Lumpkins jail, it was like theancestors got in the car with me
and followed me home becausethey just kept like after me to
research and look and figurethings out.
And I just, I'm sorry, I feellike my computer's about to die
and I did not plug it up onesecond.
Not plug it up one second.
(23:51):
I felt like I wanted to readthe story but I didn't feel
qualified to write the story.
I thought that to be ahistorical fiction writer, there
was a special skill set you had.
Maybe you needed to takeparticular classes or get a
degree, or you needed to be ahistory major in college and I
didn't think that I was.
I didn't have any of thathistory major in college and I
didn't think that I was.
I didn't have any of that.
So I had to figure this thingout.
Once I said yes to writing thestory.
So what I did to start with wasI went to my agent had told me
(24:16):
Sharice told me very early onshe was like you can't write
this story from Google.
Google will not write this1850s historical novel, like you
need to go into somebody'slibrary and check out some books
.
So I went to the Library ofVirginia which happens to be in
Richmond, which is great for mebecause that's only about 25
minutes from my house and I wentand I got periodicals that took
(24:38):
place during that time.
I got books about Richmondslavery specifically because, as
we know, you know, that's areally big subject.
But I needed to pare it down.
I read a lot of books.
I read books by peoplespecifically because my thought
was you could read a textbookbut there's going to be a little
(24:59):
bit space, a little bit ofspace between the person writing
the textbook and what youreceive, but if you get it from
the person who actually wentthrough it and had that
experience, that's going to reada little bit differently.
So I submersed myself in mytime period.
I was on the beach reading theIncident in the Life of a Slave
(25:21):
Girl by Harriet Jacobs, wheneverybody else was reading Jodi
Picoult or something like that,right, having a good time, and
I'm all like, oh my gosh, theworld is so crazy.
So I immerse myself, I amwatching movies, I'm watching
documentaries, all of that.
And when I was working on theHouse of Eve it was similar.
(25:43):
It wasn't because it's not asfar back.
The story takes place 100 yearslater.
So Yellow Wife was the 1850s,the House of Eve was the 1950s
and so for that and I was ableto pick my mom's brain she was
born in the 50s but I was ableto ask her about her childhood
(26:04):
and things that happen in herown family to get a feel for it.
And the book starts inPhiladelphia in some places, and
so you know a lot of the scenesthat happen in Ruby's life in
the House of Eve in NorthPhiladelphia were from my mom.
She grew up in NorthPhiladelphia.
Those apartments that she livedin, those were the apartments
(26:27):
that my mom described to me, sodon't discount.
You know oral history andwriting from what you learn from
your family and other people.
You can get stuff out of books,but talking to people always
takes it up another notch.
J.D. Myall (26:46):
Awesome.
What advice do you have foraspiring authors who want to
write historical novels?
Sadeqa Johnson (26:55):
Just in general.
I would say my advice towriters in general is show up
for your writing, Schedule itthe way you would a dental
appointment, right?
Like I said, I try and show upevery day at 730.
Right, that's my, that's mytime.
I want to be at my desk by 730.
So what time?
(27:16):
And most people have day jobsand then they write when they
get a chance.
So is it?
You know six o'clock for you.
You get off work, you come home, you change your clothes and
you write from six to eight.
You come home, you change yourclothes and you write from six
to eight.
When my kids were really little,like preschool, I would things
I had to do with them, and thenevery day from four to six pm,
(27:40):
that was my writing time.
I had a local 15 year old whocame to the house and she would
sit in the living room and playwith them for two hours and I
would go into the basement wheremy computer was and that was my
writing time, and then at sixo'clock I would come up and fix
dinner for them and then wewould go in with our night.
But I was very specific aboutgetting my time in.
So whatever it looks like.
If you decide that it's twohours a day for you, schedule it
(28:04):
the way you would scheduleanything else, you have to put
your writing a lot of times.
You have to put it first,meaning above going to dinner
with your friends, you know,above you know having.
I mean, I don't want to.
I don't want you to put itahead of working out, because
working out and writing is justas important.
But the same way you're likeI'm going to that spin class, I
want you to be like I'm going togo write for two hours at
(28:26):
Starbucks, so scheduling thetime and sticking to it to me,
if you do that, that's likeright there, you are already
ahead of the game.
If you say five days a week,this is my writing schedule, you
are already ahead of the game.
And that's the way that I'vealways approached writing For
historical fiction.
I think you just have to findsomething that sets your soul on
(28:48):
fire.
Like I said, it wasn't my goalever to write historical fiction
, and now I don't even know howI could not write historical
fiction, because it's just setmy soul on fire to be able to go
into these dark spaces ofhistory and shine a light and
bring these stories of women whowe don't know.
We don't learn these things inschool, and so this sets my soul
(29:10):
on fire.
I would say in any writing, youwant to feel lit up on the
inside.
This story only can be writtenby you.
It wants to come through you.
But I also want to say, don'twait and sit on it too long,
because I think ElizabethGilbert talks about this in Big
Magic a little bit is thatstories choose you, right, they
(29:31):
choose us, and so you only havea certain amount of time to say
yes to a story before it getscold and it dries up, and then
that story goes and chooseanother writer, and then you end
up at your local Harrietbookstore and you see my name on
your book, because the storythen came and found me and then
I wrote the book.
So protect your stories.
(29:53):
They're like little embryos.
They need to be nourished, theyneed you to show up, they want
you to keep feeding them so theycan grow and grow and grow and
grow and tell those stories thatyou feel compelled to tell.
J.D. Myall (30:08):
How has your life changed since publication?
Sadeqa Johnson (30:13):
How has my life changed?
Well, the first, I mean I feellike going from being a
self-published author withloving to carry on that, to
being a published author forSecond House, from the Corner.
And Then there Was Me.
Those are my contemporary books.
It didn't change that muchbecause that same grassroots
(30:35):
hustler that I was when I wasself-published, I had to bring
that same attitude to my firsttwo books, because when you're a
new author, be prepared thatthe publishing house is going to
give you a little bit of help,but they're also going to leave
a lot of it up to you, likebuilding your platform, making
(30:56):
sure you have a newsletter,knowing who your audience is,
how to reach your audience, likeall of those things that I
learned from being aself-published author.
I had to still use those skillsfor my first two books, and so
it didn't feel like it changedmuch.
The biggest thing was that Ididn't have to print the book.
I didn't have to be the salesmanager, I could just promote it
, right.
(31:16):
But then when Yellow Wife cameout, I think with each book, the
more notoriety I got for thebooks, the better.
The publisher looked at medifferently, right, and so you
sell more books than thepublisher is like oh, we got a
winner.
Okay, let's push Sadiqa back outon book tour.
(31:37):
Are you willing to go?
And I'm like, yes, because youknow I was hustling on the
street the first book.
So, yeah, they asked me to gosomewhere.
I'm definitely going, right.
And so the more you collaboratewith your publishing house and
show them that you havesomething to bring to new light
on the map as far as publishing.
But then with the House of Evesgetting the Reese Witherspoon
(32:19):
pick and then making the NewYork Times bestselling New York
Times bestsellers list, it'salmost like that elevated me in
the eyes of the publisher.
So some of those doors thathave been locked previously are
now wide open, right.
So now I'm going places that Iwasn't going to before.
I'm being asked to show up atevents that before had been
(32:41):
closed to me.
But it's because that sameperson who I was as a
self-published author hustling,hustling, hustling I'm still
that same person today and theysee value in that, and so that's
the biggest change is that themore I've been moving in my
career, more doors have beenopening for me.
J.D. Myall (33:01):
How did you respond when you found out you made the
bestsellers list?
How did you celebrate?
Sadeqa Johnson (33:07):
Well, so first I'll back up to reads, because
that happened first and I knewthat I was being submitted to
some of the celebrity book clubs.
But you know, I wasn't reallythinking about it and I remember
it was I don't know probablySeptember, late September, early
October.
And my editor said, hey, canyou jump on a Zoom call with us?
(33:30):
And I'm telling you, it was oneof those days where, when it's
warm, I write on my stump porchand so normally I have much
bigger hair right, so you canjust imagine all the humidity
sitting outside.
I got on like this rattyt-shirt and usually I'll get
dressed up for a meeting withthe publisher, but I'm like,
just jump on.
So I jump on the call and it'slike my editor, both of my
(33:52):
agents, other people, mypublicist, people from people I
don't even know, and my myeditor says I just want to let
you know that the house of Evehas been selected as a Reese
with a spoon book club pick.
The only caveat, cause the bookat the time was a March
publication date.
The only caveat is that we needto move it to February.
(34:14):
So if you're okay with that,then you're the February pick
and I'm like she can publish thebook tomorrow.
If she wants to, of course, I'mokay with it.
So it was this wonderfullysurprisingly moment, and I had
to sit on it from end ofSeptember to when it was
announced in February.
You literally can't tell anyone.
(34:35):
So I was able to tell myhusband, but that was it.
And then I went on book tour inFebruary and I was in Jackson,
Mississippi I think it might'vebeen Valentine's day.
I was in Jackson Mississippiand waiting for an Uber.
So Jackson I don't know ifanybody's from Jackson, but it's
(34:56):
not like a, it's a city, butit's not like a Philadelphia
city, Right?
So I'm thinking I'm going tocall an Uber and it's going to
be there in like three minutes,while the Uber is like 20
minutes away.
So I'm in the lobby waiting formy Uber and, same thing, my
agent calls me, my editor callsme.
She's like hang on, let mepatch your agent in.
And then they told me that Imade the list, and so I just
(35:18):
remember walking around thelobby like oh my gosh, oh my
gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh.
This is the moment.
Making the New York Timesbestsellers list is the moment
that I had been dreaming ofsince I decided that I was going
to self-publish Love and aCarry-On Bag myself.
My goal was always to make theNew York Times bestsellers list,
and it didn't happen overnight.
(35:38):
It took five books to get there.
It took publishing my own book.
It took hustling everywhere Icould imaginably get my book
into people's hands.
So it took a while to get there.
But that was always the goalfor me, and so it's crazy that I
was by myself when I got thenews.
I had nobody to celebrate with.
I ended up having to go.
I was on my way to a book eventand I couldn't say anything
(36:02):
because I think it's not, it'snot published into a certain
time.
So I couldn't even tell thepeople at the bookstore.
So it was like this moment thatI, it was just me.
It was, it was just me.
(36:22):
Do you have any other advice youwant to give aspiring authors I
would love to share with youguys.
I want you guys to share backwith me too.
So let me know what you'rethinking by getting your
questions ready.
As far as additional advice, Iwould say don't get caught up in
(36:45):
what's popular right now,because I've never done that and
my books always come out andthey're timely.
So, for instance, the Health ofEve deals with women's
reproductive rights.
I couldn't have planned thefact that we will be going
through what we're going throughright now in this country
regarding abortion and all ofthose, you know, fundamental
(37:08):
rights that we're used to having.
But I was already writing thestory.
I think I was on the fifthdraft when Roe v Wade was
overturned in June.
So write the story that youfeel, and the world and the
trends will fit itself aroundyour story.
J.D. Myall (37:24):
Love that.
Does anybody have any questionsfor Sadiqa tonight?
Does anybody have any questionsfor Sadiqa tonight?
Speaker 5 (37:30):
I do Actually a comment and a question, so
without saying too much, becauseI don't know who read it and
who didn't, but a little bit is.
I read both the Yellow Wife andI read the House of Eve and I
was really flabbergasted at theend when that portion of
(37:50):
yellow-white tied into that,like I didn't see it coming.
And it was so perfectly doneeven though I didn't see it
coming.
Was that intentional, did you?
Sadeqa Johnson (38:02):
Yes, it was intentional and it was something
that I decided very early on,because Second House from the
Corner so my first book, lovingto Carry on Bag characters carry
over into Second House from theCorner.
So, even though I'm writing awhole, completely new story, if
you love Loving to Carry on Bag,you get a peek at those
(38:23):
characters that you love so much, even though it's a brand new
story.
And so that was what I wassaying.
I was like, how can I connectthese two books from 1850 to
1950, right.
And so when I figured it out, Ithought, oh, for the people who
love Yellow White, they'regonna be really excited to see
this little small nugget, thislittle Easter egg that brings
(38:44):
these two books together.
And, ironically, the novel thatI'm working on now I already
know that there is a carryovercharacters into the new book.
That's going to also, I hope,make your heart flutter.
Speaker 5 (38:56):
That was nice.
And my second iscongratulations on your
publication of the House of Evein Italy.
Tell us about that.
That had to be wild.
Sadeqa Johnson (39:04):
Yes, oh, thank you for asking about that.
I never think to think but talkabout foreign rights.
So again, I think I'vementioned that I'm a big
visioner, like I have a visionboard, and so always on my
vision board are certain things,and so one of the things that
I've been trying to bring in isforeign rights, because I have
friends who are like, oh, mybook is published in 30
(39:27):
languages.
I'm like what, how did you dothat?
And so I've been on my 30languages.
I'm like what, how did you dothat, you know?
And so I've been on my myagents.
I'm like, talk to the foreignrights agent, like get my books
out there.
And so Yellow Wife was thefirst time that I got a foreign
right and it was Brazilian.
So that was my first um time andso I was really excited about
that.
But I'm like greedy, give memore, give me more Right.
(39:50):
And so when the house of thesewas coming out, we you know my
agent she pushed it, she pushedit, she pushed it.
She wasn't getting a lot ofyeses until I got the Reese pick
.
And so once I got the Reesepick, then I started to get.
I started to get yeses, so it'sItalian.
I started to get yeses, so it'sItalian, dutch, norwegian,
(40:18):
russian, the UK, portuguese, andI think I'm forgetting one more
.
So I think I have six or sevenright now for the House of Eve
and they come out at differenttimes.
So it's already been publishedin the UK.
The Italian and the Portugueseversion has come out, but I have
a few that haven't come out yet, and it's just a matter of my
agent and the foreign rightsagent pushing it to say you know
, they have the connections withthese other companies and then
(40:40):
bringing the rights in, and sothat's that's how it happened.
But it's really excitingbecause, again, another thing
that I've really wanted for along time, another thing that
I've really wanted for a longtime.
Speaker 5 (40:51):
I have one more question, just one more about
that, though.
Um.
So I had Eric Smith'spublishing class, which is
absolutely like amazing, and hebrought in um a foreign, a
foreign, um rights agent, andshe talked about getting those
that sometimes like, like, thecover may be changed, or the
title, and somewhat has changedwas anything?
(41:11):
Did they keep the house of eveas is or did they change
anything?
The cover, the character's name, something of that nature?
Sadeqa Johnson (41:19):
yeah.
So for yellow wife and thebrazilian version they had to
they changed it because I thinkyellow wife was something
derogatory were like, no, wecan't do that.
So they changed it to Phoebe Ithink it's just called Phoebe,
if I remember correctly.
So they changed the title forYellow Wife For the House of E.
Everybody kept the title but,like you saw, the Italian
(41:45):
version changed the cover and Ithink the German version another
version somebody changed thetitle too.
And I think even when theychanged the title my agent was
like that doesn't even soundlike the House of Eve and
they're like no, trust me, youknow, sometimes you have to
trust them because they're likewe know our market and so you
(42:08):
know we give a little pushback,but then oftentimes it's like
okay, we're going to trust you.
So it really depends on whatthe translation means in that
country and if it makes sense ornot.
So with Yellow Wife it wasdefinitely not a good look and
so they changed it to Feedy.
J.D. Myall (42:26):
Awesome.
Any more questions?
Yes, Lee.
Speaker 5 (42:30):
Yeah, I just wanted to ask you about you mentioned a
vision board.
J.D. Myall (42:34):
And I just wondered how that worked.
It sounds like something thatmight be kind of right up my
alley, so can you describe it alittle bit?
Sadeqa Johnson (42:41):
Absolutely, and I keep it in my closet.
I would take my computer inthere to see.
You guys can see it, but mycloset is probably a little
messy.
But what I do is is I take likea big sheet of paper and first
what I do is I put on.
So everything is like a ritualfor me, right?
So I have to burn some sage,add some incense, light some
(43:02):
candles, get the good mojoenergy going, and then I put on
some kind of music that feelslike in my heart, right, like
something that feels like I'mhaving a rebirth, I'm having an
experience, like something ishappening here, right?
So I got to set the scene andthen I have a big sheet of paper
(43:23):
and I usually use a Sharpie andI'll write out like and I try
and do it at the beginning ofthe year this year was so busy.
This is the first year that Ididn't do my vision board going
into the year, but the one thatI did last year is still kind of
bearing fruit, so it was okayand I would put like what my
mission statement is for theyear or what my word is for the
year, like elevate or flourishor multiply, or whatever my word
(43:48):
is.
And then I break up the visionboard in sections.
So one section would be mywriting career and what I'm
trying to bring into fruition.
So, like the New York Timesbestseller Oprah's always on my
list, because who doesn't wantto have an encounter with Auntie
O right?
So you know what awards I wantto win speaking, engagement,
(44:14):
money, like all of those things.
And then I might have anothersection that's just about like
my family, like happy, healthychildren, you know that sort of
thing.
Then maybe a section for travel, places that I want to go, and
I break it up based on whatmakes sense.
And then for the, for the careerI had teaching, right, and look
(44:34):
at this, I've been teaching inthe MFA program for a few years
now, but that was on my visionboard and it was in the middle
of my vision board becausethat's what I really wanted to
bring, you know, into my, intomy, into my life, and you know,
and as things happen, I go intomy closet with a highlighter and
I highlight the things thatcome to fruition, because it's
(44:57):
like a thank you.
It's like I'm saying to youthank you, bring me more, thank
you, bring me more, thank you,bring me more.
And I usually try and do it atthe beginning of the year.
So I missed this year, but theone that I did last year is
still bearing fruit, but I willdo a new one at the top of the
year.
I hope that was helpful.
Thank you, you're welcome.
I think Dionne has her hand up.
Speaker 7 (45:24):
Hi, dionne, how are you?
Good to see you?
Well, I don't really have aquestion, I just have a comment.
First and foremost, I thinkthat the House of Eves is an
incredible body of work and notonly is it entertaining, for me
it's very educational.
I don't want to give a lot ofit away, but like thinking about
the stuff where, like howpregnancy tests were done in the
1940s, and when I came acrossthat part I was like wow, I know
(45:46):
she did a lot of research, likein the days of Claire Blue Easy
, like to have to do all that,like that was really thought
provoking.
And then also the part of theHouse of Eve and like what that
was and like you know, theexperiences of rubies and
probably countless other youngwomen that will never you know,
(46:08):
know and hear about.
It's like it makes you, itmakes me sad for those young
women that will never you know,know and hear about.
It's like it makes you, itmakes me sad for those young
women.
Some of them were there byconsensual situations, some of
them were there by, you know,assault and stuff like that.
So just thinking about likethose types of places, that they
exist, it makes you think wehave come a long way, but then
again, unfortunately, we stillhave a long way to go.
(46:30):
So I just want to thank you foryour body of work.
Sadeqa Johnson (46:34):
Thank you so much.
I appreciate that.
I'm glad you enjoyed it.
J.D. Myall (46:41):
Any other questions ?
Speaker 6 (46:41):
Hi, how are you?
My name is.
I'm a new student in thisprogram, really excited to hear
from you.
I feel like you are like mysister, ken.
I'm from Harlem, I'm in NewYork right now.
I do my meditation, all thatbut and also I love history.
(47:04):
My question for you is how doyou know when to stop the
research?
Sadeqa Johnson (47:16):
And you know as you go and you sift through when
is how, do you know?
Well, I have to say that Harlemhas a very special place in my
life.
When I was in college, I livedon 130th Street between 5th and
Lenox, and I just saw my collegeroommates and we lived in a.
We lived at 12 West.
Speaker 6 (47:37):
And we see each other .
We're like 12 West.
Well, I'm from the LincolnProjects 135th and Madison.
Sadeqa Johnson (47:41):
So when I'm doing the research, how do I
know when to stop?
Well, I have to say thatresearch is so delicious and it
is so easy to research.
Research is easier than writing.
Right Writing is not alwayseasy and you got to focus and
you got to strap in and you gotto settle in and so, with Young
(48:01):
Wife, I gave myself because itwas my first time I gave myself
six, four months of research andas I was researching it, I was
taking what I thought was reallygood notes.
But when I'm completely honest,I'm a little bit like the messy
professor.
I know that there are betterways to keep your research notes
.
I know some people useScrivener.
I can't figure that darn thingout.
(48:22):
I'm very old school.
I have pictures on the wall, Ihave timelines on my wall, I use
notebooks.
I'm sure there's a quicker,faster way, but that's my way
right.
And so I would research and Ihad a five-subject notebook and
I separated by whatever I neededto separate and I plugged in my
research notes.
(48:42):
But with the House of Eve Irealized that I did a little bit
.
I did my research a little bitshorter and got into the story,
and then, when I hit up againstsomething, then I would maybe
stop to do a little research onthat.
So I do a big research up frontand then I write.
And then if I bump up againstsomething I don't know, like in
Yellow Wife, I've done all thisresearch and I'm in the first
(49:05):
chapter and Phoebe goes into thehouse because she's not usually
the one who dresses themistress, and she goes to dress
the mistress and I'm like, ohgosh, I did all this research.
Well, what does she have on andhow do you tie a corset?
And so I'll stop and get thosedetails and then I'll feed it
into the story.
Speaker 6 (49:24):
Thank you so much.
And, funny thing, my daughter'sname is Phoebe.
Oh wow.
Sadeqa Johnson (49:28):
And funny thing my daughter's name is Phoebe.
J.D. Myall (49:33):
Oh wow, I love the fact that you visited the Black
sororities in the House of Evetoo, because, you know, I know a
lot of that history fromhearing my grandmother talk and
stuff like that, but I've neverseen it in a book before.
Sadeqa Johnson (49:44):
So that was cool .
J.D. Myall (49:46):
Thank you.
Anybody else have any questions?
No, okay, well, I appreciateyou for giving us this time and
all this great information.
I'm sure we'll use it to enrichour stories and grow as writers
.
Oh, I'm sorry, we have aquestion from tori and no, we go
ahead.
Oh, I was just, um, you know,celebrating.
(50:07):
Thank you, tori again.
Um, if you guys get the chanceto work with Sadiqa, she is the
awesome, the most awesome, well,one of the most awesome.
I had some great packetexchange teachers, but she was
one of my faves.
She did a fabulous job, reallyelevated my writing and I
greatly appreciate her and Igreatly appreciate knowing me
and this wonderful program.
I hope you guys do.
For those of you that are stillin school, hey, good to meet
(50:33):
you.
Um, can't tell you my real nameright now because we're airing
this but you know, hopefullyI'll see you at the alumni
events and I can tell you all inperson and, like I said, it's
been a great night.
We appreciate you knowing me,we appreciate you Sadiqa, we
appreciate you everybody.
That's here, jamie Moe Angeleverybody, I know everybody know
hey, good to meet you.
Sadeqa Johnson (50:52):
Thank you guys so much.
Yeah, this has been such anhonor and a pleasure.
Thank you for allowing me tohave this time with you.
I hope that you guys gotsomething from my story.
I just want to leave you withsome encouraging words to say
that there's no accident whileyou were here.
We are storytellers, that thatwe, we all, have a purpose,
(51:12):
right, and so our purpose is totell stories.
If we don't tell our stories,then who will?
And so I charge you withshowing up for your writing,
making a schedule.
It could be 30 minutes, like Ithink two hours, is good, but it
could be 30 minutes, like 30minutes a day, and before you
know it, you have 50 pages.
So write that story that youfeel in your heart.
(51:33):
Don't let anybody discourageyou.
You know, put your writingfirst, and I can't wait to read
your books on the shelf.
Thank you so much.
You all have a great evening.
J.D. Myall (51:43):
Thank you guys.
Thank you again, Naomi.
Sadeqa Johnson (51:45):
Good night, you guys, thank you.
Good night, you guys, thank youGood night.
Speaker 8 (51:56):
That wraps up today's Craft Chat Chronicles with JD
Mayor.
Thanks for joining us.
If you liked the episode,please comment, subscribe and
share.
For show notes, writingworkshops and tips, head t.
That's j.
(52:17):
While you're there, join JD'smailing list for updates,
giveaways.
Welcome to Craft Chat Chronicles, the go-to podcast
for tips on craftingbest-selling fiction.
Here at Craft Chat Chronicles,we bring you expert interviews,
insights and tips on writing,publishing and marketing.
For workshops, show notes andmore information, visit
(00:25):
jdmyhacom.
Nomi (00:31):
Welcome everybody to an alumni Drexel MFA Alumni
Association evening craft chat.
J Myhall is our fabulous alumnimember who is hosting this
evening's get together with theincredible Sadiqa Johnson.
I'm going to stop blathering onand let JD take it away.
Sadeqa Johnson (00:56):
Thank you, Naomi .
J.D. Myall (00:59):
Hi everybody.
Sadiqa is our star of tonight'sshow.
You see my curtain.
Sadeqa Johnson (01:07):
I love the curtain, by the way.
J.D. Myall (01:09):
Thank you, she is an author of five books.
She's a New York Timesbestselling novelist.
She is one of the greatestpacket exchange teachers you'll
ever have.
She wrote two of my favoritesthe Yellow Wife and House of Eve
.
House of Eve is a ReeseWitherspoon book club pick and
recently Goodreads chose it asthe best historical fiction
(01:33):
novel.
So she's been doing big things,as always, and it's still just
as sweet and gracious as the dayI first met her.
So let's start asking her a fewquestions.
I first met her, so let's startasking her a few questions.
When you were younger, did youhave a mirror book or a book
that made you feel as if you sawyourself?
Sadeqa Johnson (01:51):
reflected on the page, wow.
Well, before I answer thatquestion one, I want to say
thank you for the invitation,nomi, and thank you guys for
taking time out on a busyWednesday night, 530.
I know it's that tricky time,particularly if you have kids
and that sort of thing, so I'mreally grateful that you guys
chose to spend this time with me.
When I was a kid, I was thegirl who went to the library
(02:16):
every Monday, particularly inthe summertime.
I would dress up, my librarycard had a special little pouch
that I kept it in and I wouldcheck seven books out each week.
I would read a book a day andthen I would go back the
following week.
So my librarians knew me byname and they always made sure
that there were books for me atthe ready.
(02:38):
It took a while for me toactually find books where I saw
myself on the page.
I would say the earliest bookthat I remember was more in my
teenage years, not my youngeryears.
The first book that I rememberwas Maya Angelou's.
I Know why the Caged Bird Sings, and I was in high school and I
remember reading the book, soenraptured in her story that I
(03:05):
was hiding out in one of theclassrooms because my friends
wanted me to come outside.
I grew up in Philadelphia so wejumped double dutch during
lunch and my friends wanted meto come out and jump double
dutch with them and I just couldnot stop reading this book.
And so I read all of herbiographies.
And then the next time Iremember really having that same
(03:26):
feeling was Terry McMillan'sbook.
Mama and I identified withFrida.
I still remember her name.
It was one of the few booksthat I read more than once,
because as soon as I finished Iwas like, oh my gosh, I picked
it back up and read it again.
So that was the beginning of meseeing myself and then probably
(03:48):
the seeds being planted that,wow, there's a power in writing
your story as authentically andtruly as possible.
In order to get to the currentnovel, I probably have to take
you back just a little bit tojust deciding that I was going
to be a writer, which I know isa hard thing for most of us,
(04:11):
right?
Because most parents want us togrow up and be doctors and
lawyers and engineers andsomething tangible, so that they
know that you're going to payyour own bills and you won't be
coming to them for money.
So when I was a kid, I wanted tobe an actress.
That was my goal.
And I went to college in NewYork City specifically because I
(04:32):
thought, well, I'll go toschool.
And I didn't go to school tograduate, I went to school to be
discovered.
And so my thought was I wouldbe.
I went to Marymount ManhattanCollege.
I thought I'll be there for twoor three weeks, I'll get some
auditions, I'll be on.
I went to Marymount ManhattanCollege.
I thought I'll be there for twoor three weeks, I'll get some
auditions, I'll be on Broadwayand the rest will be.
You know, that will be it.
Well, once I graduated fromschool and actually switched my
(04:56):
major and I went intocommunications because I thought
, well, goodness gracious, thisacting thing is not easy, right,
like knocking on doors, begging, asking people to like pick me,
was not an easy thing.
And so I thought, well, let megraduate with a communications
degree so I have something tofall back on.
And my first job was inpublishing.
So I worked at Scholastic Booksand I was a publicist and I
(05:20):
worked on the first Harry Potterbooks, which was really an
exciting time for me.
So while I was there is when Istarted working on my first
novel.
But that, that first novel youknow, being surrounded by books
and haven't had a readingbackground, and I also, because
I was in New York, was likeheavy into the poetry scene.
So we would go to like NewYorican cafe and talk real slick
(05:42):
and, you know, get into thatvibe.
And that was a mixture ofwriting and theater.
So I absolutely loved it.
But working in publishing gaveme sort of an outlet because I
was surrounded by authors and Ithought, well, what's the
difference between them and me?
It can't be too great.
So I started working on myfirst novel while at Scholastic.
(06:04):
It never saw the light of day,but from there I start taking
writing classes.
So I'm a big, you know.
I teach in the MFA program, ofcourse, but I also feel like you
have to continue to study yourcraft, like you never get to the
point where you got it right.
I'm working on a new novel rightnow And'm constantly Googling,
(06:24):
like how to write a synopsis oh,that's a great way to write a
synopsis or part one what needsto happen in part one?
So I'm always constantly stillstudying as well.
Even though I've written fivebooks and so I was taking
writing classes.
I started on my first novel andI worked on that novel
(06:44):
constantly.
I started it probably in 2000and I was working on it while I
was at work.
I was working on it back andforth on the train between New
York and New Jersey and finallyI got to the point where I said
you know what?
I'm married, my son was aboutto be born and I had written a
(07:05):
few drafts of this novel and Ithought this is the time I'm
going to quit my job, I'm goingto get my novel out and I'm
going to take care of my son.
And I remember having thisconversation with my husband and
he was like you're going toquit your job.
And I'm like yeah, like I haveit under control.
I have relationships withpeople in publishing.
(07:27):
So that first book went out tomarket.
I got an agent very quicklybecause I did have some
relationships.
But it went out to market.
It went to 10 different editorsand, one by one, every single
one of those editors told me noand I was left right back where
I started.
And this journey had taken solong that when I told my husband
(07:50):
I was going to quit my job, Iwas pregnant with our first
child by now.
I had three little babieslooking up at me wondering like
mommy, what's for dinner.
And I'm on the phone nearly intears because, once again, all
of the publishers told me no.
So that was sort of thepublishers told me no.
So that was sort of thebeginning of publishing for me.
J.D. Myall (08:10):
Can you tell them about your journey from
self-published to now?
Sadeqa Johnson (08:15):
Yeah.
So after that devastatingmoment when I realized that my
book was not going to bepublished, my husband was sort
of like, ok, so what do we needto do to get this book out in
the world?
And I said, well, we need aneditor.
And he said, why don't we justhire an editor?
And I thought, like it was likeI knew that self-publishing was
(08:38):
a vehicle but I was so rigidlyattached to doing it the
traditionally publishing waybecause that's what I knew.
But it was almost like themoment I said yes to it,
everything opened up.
It's not for the faint at heart.
So I don't want to make it likeit's this easy thing, because
self-publishing self is the keyword, right.
(09:01):
So I was the sales manager.
I literally would call upbookstores and use an alias.
My friends call me D and mymaiden name is Murray.
So I would call up the localbookstore and be like hey,
little bookshop, hey, mahoganyBooks, this is D Murray, calling
from 12th Street Press.
I got this great booklovingving to Carry on Bag.
(09:23):
Can I send you a couple ofcopies?
We literally was going up anddown the East Coast with
retractables and going to everybook festival where we could buy
a table and then I'm standingon the street hoaxing people
over to my table.
I had candy, I had cute kidswith Loving to Carry on t-shirts
(09:43):
, like anything you could thinkof.
We were out there doing it, andso it was definitely a street
hustle to begin.
It wasn't just, it wasgrassroots is probably the
better way to say it.
There was a lot of grassrootsin the beginning of my
publishing journey, but we justkept at it.
We did this for over a year ortwo and I finally was nominated
(10:07):
for the Phyllis Wheatley Award,which was an award connected to
the Harlem Book Festival, whichwas one of those ones that I
came.
You know, I was on stage, I hadmusicians, I mean I thought
with a theater background, itwas very easy to to up the ante
a little bit and make myselfstand out from the other authors
.
And so from there I won thePhyllis Wheatley Award and after
(10:29):
I won that award, my editor andI think you guys have met
Cherise Fisher, who's my agent,but she was my editor at the
time and I remember she wastrying to help me find an agent
and I said to her I said no oneloves me the way you do I said
you really need to be my agent.
And at the same moment she wasstarting to feel like she wanted
(10:50):
to transition into agenting.
And so that's how we went fromthe editorial relationship to
the agent relationship.
Well, she took my next novel tomarket and she came back to me
and she said well, we're goingto let everybody think about it
over the weekend and I'll callyou on.
And she said well, we're gonnalet everybody think about it
over the weekend and I'll callyou on Monday.
But you remember I had gonethrough this already, right,
(11:12):
standing, waiting, hoping, and Iremember the first time I was
like God, just anybody.
Like I'll take anybody Anybody,please say yes.
But now I've been around theblock a little bit, right.
And so my prayer changed to letme be able to choose who I want
to have a relationship with.
Right, because now I've learnedsome things and I realized that
I'm bringing something to thetable too, and I think that's
(11:33):
what we as writers sometimesforget, is that we want to be
chosen, but we also need torecognize what our worth is and
what we're bringing to the table.
And so my thought changed and myprayer changed, and so when
Sharif called me on that Mondayshe said I have three from three
different publishing housesthat would love to publish your
(11:56):
book.
Why don't we sit down and lookat these offers and see which
one is giving you something thatyou have not already given
yourself?
Right, because I had alreadyput out a book myself, I could
easily do it again.
So who of these three areoffering you something?
And so St Martin's Press hadoffered me a hardcover, and they
had offered me a two-book deal,and so that was the beginning
(12:20):
for me, going fromself-published into
traditionally published.
Awesome.
J.D. Myall (12:28):
Let's see.
Can you share insight on yourwriting process?
Sadeqa Johnson (12:35):
So my writing process I am a full-time writer,
I was.
I was I, you know, when my kidswere home I felt like I was a
full-time mom and a part-timeyou know writer.
But now my kids are teenagersand they're all off to school
and and for the last few years,I would say since Yellow Wife I
felt pretty much like this wasmy full-time job.
(12:57):
I try to get up.
It's been a little tricky, Ihave to be 100% honest.
When I had kids here anchoringmy time, then it was like get up
at six o'clock, drive this oneto the train, do this, do that.
And now I'm like gosh, I don'thave anybody to hold me
accountable, but my goal is tobe at my desk by 7.30.
(13:19):
So I wake up, I pray and Imeditate, and I always meditate
before I start my writing, and Ithink that that is a central
part of writing.
It's one that I hope that youall will take and adopt it for
yourself.
And so I try to meditate for 10to 15 minutes every morning
before I write, and what thatdoes is, first of all, it sort
(13:41):
of clears my head out, it makesspace for the creativity to flow
and it just gives a chance forideas to drop, in that maybe if
I didn't take that time to quietmy brain, my brain's all jumbly
so when I sit down to write,all that jumble is sort of in
the way of getting to my firstlayer of writing.
(14:01):
So I meditate first.
I try to do my morning pages.
This week I haven't been good atthem, but you know, three is a
lot for me.
So one or two morning pages isusually good, A little bit of a
gratitude list, a little bit ofspiritual music to kind of get
me and write, to write.
(14:21):
And then I spend anywherebetween four to five hours.
Writing is normal.
But when I'm really jammed upand having to get something out,
I'm shooting for that seven toeight hours a day writing.
And I write Monday throughFriday for the most part.
(14:43):
Sometimes Fridays I get alittle bit like oh, it's Friday,
I'll just do like two hours sothat I could say I did something
.
But it's the weekend and I dogive myself off for the weekend.
So I'm still thinking about thestory, but I'm not physically
at my desk writing the story,because your brain also needs a
little bit of space too fromwriting.
J.D. Myall (15:03):
Can you give us some advice on writing a
compelling opening Like what doyou think are the essential
elements of the first page?
Sadeqa Johnson (15:27):
the opening right Because the opening scene
is such a big deal.
What I do when I'm having amoment and I can't get that
opening scene right is I go readthe opening scenes of some of
my favorite books forinspiration.
I think the more you know yourcharacter.
So I always start withcharacter bios, like I have an
idea when I'm writing a novel,or I have a moment in history,
you know, like for Yellow Wife,I have a or I have a moment in
history, you know, like forYellow Wife, I knew I was
(15:48):
writing about this moment inhistory this jail.
You know this woman beingmarried um to, to the jailer, so
I knew this moment in history,um.
So then I have to find out allthe pieces around it.
But I'll do a a quick bio biosketch on my off, on my edit, on
my characters prior to, butthat's not their final bio, do
(16:10):
you know what I mean?
It's like sort of to get megoing so that I could kind of
get their backstory down andknow a little bit about them.
But as I go, draft to draft,that bio is going to change and
it's going to deepen.
So I think, a little bit ofknowing who your character is,
reading those opening pages ofyour favorite books to kind of
motivate you.
And also, you know, a lot oftimes I'll sit at my desk and
(16:35):
I'll write to my characters.
You know, for instance, now I'mworking with a character named
Sophia and I'll say to her likehey, sophia, what are you doing,
what's going on, how are youfeeling?
And I'll write that in myjournal and I'll try to hear her
response and write it as welltoo, so that we're making that
connection.
So those are some of the tricksthat I use to kind of get into
(16:58):
that story and start it off.
What makes a good villain?
I mean, I think, to begin with,you have to plunge your
characters into danger, right,we can't protect them.
We love them, we love them, welove them, but we have to plunge
them into danger.
Her wants how bad do they wantit?
(17:29):
How far are they willing to getit and what's in the way of
them getting it?
And what's in the way of themgetting it is often, usually
something that's pretty.
The stakes need to be prettyhigh, right, and so I don't
necessarily have villains asmuch as well.
I mean, I guess, if I thinkabout, well, villain always
makes me think of, like you know, a superhero book like Batman
(17:53):
is up against, you know, but inmy stories it's more, like you
know, like in Yellow Wife, itwas like Phoebe, and I guess you
would look at the jailer as hervillain, right?
Yes, okay, so if I'm thinking ofit in those terms, when I was
writing Yellow Wife and I wasthinking about writing the
character of the jailer, I knewthat he was a man with both ways
(18:14):
and never know which way he wasgoing to go was definitely the
challenge for me and, early on,the comment that I kept getting
(18:34):
back from my agent Sharice, waslike I can't see him, he's not
scary enough.
I don't believe it.
You got to go a little bitdeeper.
Which you want to have?
An agent, an editor, a critiquegroup around you that's going
to call you on that, becausethose type of comments are the
ones that make you better.
So I definitely struggled with.
I struggled a bit with makinghim full circle, but I think he
(18:57):
came together nicely in the end.
J.D. Myall (19:00):
How do you avoid the dreaded saggy middle?
Sadeqa Johnson (19:13):
middle that is.
I mean, who hates the saggingmiddle?
Please raise your hand, becausethat is totally me and actually
the novel that I'm working onnow.
I've been working on the firsthundred pages for probably far
too long, but it's probablybecause I am avoiding getting to
that squishy middle of thestory.
What I do is I break it downinto small bites, though.
So I always outline my storypart one, part two, part three.
(19:34):
For the most part that's how Ido it right.
So part one I'm usually kind ofjam and I know exactly what's
going on.
I know how part one's gonna end, I know how part two is gonna
end.
But it's all of those detailsin the middle of the story that
sometimes throw me off.
So I try and break it intochunks and again, I'm always
(19:54):
looking to up the ante for myprotagonist.
So you know, she wants this,she doesn't get it, she wants
this.
Oh, she really doesn't get it,she doesn't, she wants this.
And, oh my gosh, crash, crash,crash, crash.
(20:29):
Everything falls apart, and soI have to kind of break it down
into small chunks, what I'mworking towards.
That helps a little bit, butthe squishy middle is the
squishy middle y'all, and wejust got to stick with it like
trudging through the snow withno boots.
I love that.
J.D. Myall (20:41):
How do you craft a compelling end Like how do you
tie it all up with a bow at theend?
Sadeqa Johnson (20:47):
So my stories do not have a bow at the end.
I don't know how that happened,but it has.
I do like a nice tied up storywith a bow at the end, but none
of my novels are like that.
So what I'm trying to do when Iget to the end of the story,
when I'm writing a novel, I'mthinking that this is just a
moment in these characters'lives, right?
(21:07):
And so if it's six months inthis character's life, this is
what happens from beginning toend.
When I get to the end, I don'talways know an idea what's gonna
happen at the end of the story,but I don't have all the
details and sometimes, when I'min that squishy middle, that's
(21:32):
when I start getting those extralittle details that I need to
tie the story up.
I just trust myself through theprocess too.
So as I'm going through it, Ihave to trust myself and I have
to trust my characters, becauseoftentimes I will have a plan
for them, but then they drop aplan into me and their plan is
(21:53):
always better than the one thatI had.
So sometimes I'll you know,most times I will deviate and go
in their direction and it hurts, right it for me.
It hurts to like not stick tothat quick plan that I had and
to see the character veeringleft and it's like dang it, I
don't really want to go leftbecause I had all this planned
out.
But when I do go left it's like, oh, oh, yeah, that works.
So I'm always kind of trustingmyself through the process,
(22:17):
trusting my characters andgiving myself room to deviate
from that plan that I have,because it always gets better
that I have because it alwaysgets better.
J.D. Myall (22:33):
Love that.
How do you balance researchinghistorical fiction with creating
a compelling story Like?
How do you balance thehistorical accuracy with the
fantasy and the fiction?
Sadeqa Johnson (22:42):
Yeah.
So Yellow Wife was my fourthnovel and it was my first time
writing historical fiction andit wasn't anything that I had
planned.
I was very happy writingcontemporary fiction because
those first three books were allabout me.
Right, I could work out all mytherapy issues and all my family
(23:03):
issues and all my problems inthose first three books.
And then I'm on the RichmondSlave Trail in Richmond and just
feel the hairs on my arms standup as I'm walking on the
Richmond Slave Trail andeverything in my body is saying
you need to be paying attention.
And when I discovered the storyof Mary Lumpkins and the
(23:23):
Lumpkins jail, it was like theancestors got in the car with me
and followed me home becausethey just kept like after me to
research and look and figurethings out.
And I just, I'm sorry, I feellike my computer's about to die
and I did not plug it up onesecond.
Not plug it up one second.
(23:51):
I felt like I wanted to readthe story but I didn't feel
qualified to write the story.
I thought that to be ahistorical fiction writer, there
was a special skill set you had.
Maybe you needed to takeparticular classes or get a
degree, or you needed to be ahistory major in college and I
didn't think that I was.
I didn't have any of thathistory major in college and I
didn't think that I was.
I didn't have any of that.
So I had to figure this thingout.
Once I said yes to writing thestory.
So what I did to start with wasI went to my agent had told me
(24:16):
Sharice told me very early onshe was like you can't write
this story from Google.
Google will not write this1850s historical novel, like you
need to go into somebody'slibrary and check out some books
.
So I went to the Library ofVirginia which happens to be in
Richmond, which is great for mebecause that's only about 25
minutes from my house and I wentand I got periodicals that took
(24:38):
place during that time.
I got books about Richmondslavery specifically because, as
we know, you know, that's areally big subject.
But I needed to pare it down.
I read a lot of books.
I read books by peoplespecifically because my thought
was you could read a textbookbut there's going to be a little
(24:59):
bit space, a little bit ofspace between the person writing
the textbook and what youreceive, but if you get it from
the person who actually wentthrough it and had that
experience, that's going to reada little bit differently.
So I submersed myself in mytime period.
I was on the beach reading theIncident in the Life of a Slave
(25:21):
Girl by Harriet Jacobs, wheneverybody else was reading Jodi
Picoult or something like that,right, having a good time, and
I'm all like, oh my gosh, theworld is so crazy.
So I immerse myself, I amwatching movies, I'm watching
documentaries, all of that.
And when I was working on theHouse of Eve it was similar.
(25:43):
It wasn't because it's not asfar back.
The story takes place 100 yearslater.
So Yellow Wife was the 1850s,the House of Eve was the 1950s
and so for that and I was ableto pick my mom's brain she was
born in the 50s but I was ableto ask her about her childhood
(26:04):
and things that happen in herown family to get a feel for it.
And the book starts inPhiladelphia in some places, and
so you know a lot of the scenesthat happen in Ruby's life in
the House of Eve in NorthPhiladelphia were from my mom.
She grew up in NorthPhiladelphia.
Those apartments that she livedin, those were the apartments
(26:27):
that my mom described to me, sodon't discount.
You know oral history andwriting from what you learn from
your family and other people.
You can get stuff out of books,but talking to people always
takes it up another notch.
J.D. Myall (26:46):
Awesome.
What advice do you have foraspiring authors who want to
write historical novels?
Sadeqa Johnson (26:55):
Just in general.
I would say my advice towriters in general is show up
for your writing, Schedule itthe way you would a dental
appointment, right?
Like I said, I try and show upevery day at 730.
Right, that's my, that's mytime.
I want to be at my desk by 730.
So what time?
(27:16):
And most people have day jobsand then they write when they
get a chance.
So is it?
You know six o'clock for you.
You get off work, you come home, you change your clothes and
you write from six to eight.
You come home, you change yourclothes and you write from six
to eight.
When my kids were really little,like preschool, I would things
I had to do with them, and thenevery day from four to six pm,
(27:40):
that was my writing time.
I had a local 15 year old whocame to the house and she would
sit in the living room and playwith them for two hours and I
would go into the basement wheremy computer was and that was my
writing time, and then at sixo'clock I would come up and fix
dinner for them and then wewould go in with our night.
But I was very specific aboutgetting my time in.
So whatever it looks like.
If you decide that it's twohours a day for you, schedule it
(28:04):
the way you would scheduleanything else, you have to put
your writing a lot of times.
You have to put it first,meaning above going to dinner
with your friends, you know,above you know having.
I mean, I don't want to.
I don't want you to put itahead of working out, because
working out and writing is justas important.
But the same way you're likeI'm going to that spin class, I
want you to be like I'm going togo write for two hours at
(28:26):
Starbucks, so scheduling thetime and sticking to it to me,
if you do that, that's likeright there, you are already
ahead of the game.
If you say five days a week,this is my writing schedule, you
are already ahead of the game.
And that's the way that I'vealways approached writing For
historical fiction.
I think you just have to findsomething that sets your soul on
(28:48):
fire.
Like I said, it wasn't my goalever to write historical fiction
, and now I don't even know howI could not write historical
fiction, because it's just setmy soul on fire to be able to go
into these dark spaces ofhistory and shine a light and
bring these stories of women whowe don't know.
We don't learn these things inschool, and so this sets my soul
(29:10):
on fire.
I would say in any writing, youwant to feel lit up on the
inside.
This story only can be writtenby you.
It wants to come through you.
But I also want to say, don'twait and sit on it too long,
because I think ElizabethGilbert talks about this in Big
Magic a little bit is thatstories choose you, right, they
(29:31):
choose us, and so you only havea certain amount of time to say
yes to a story before it getscold and it dries up, and then
that story goes and chooseanother writer, and then you end
up at your local Harrietbookstore and you see my name on
your book, because the storythen came and found me and then
I wrote the book.
So protect your stories.
(29:53):
They're like little embryos.
They need to be nourished, theyneed you to show up, they want
you to keep feeding them so theycan grow and grow and grow and
grow and tell those stories thatyou feel compelled to tell.
J.D. Myall (30:08):
How has your life changed since publication?
Sadeqa Johnson (30:13):
How has my life changed?
Well, the first, I mean I feellike going from being a
self-published author withloving to carry on that, to
being a published author forSecond House, from the Corner.
And Then there Was Me.
Those are my contemporary books.
It didn't change that muchbecause that same grassroots
(30:35):
hustler that I was when I wasself-published, I had to bring
that same attitude to my firsttwo books, because when you're a
new author, be prepared thatthe publishing house is going to
give you a little bit of help,but they're also going to leave
a lot of it up to you, likebuilding your platform, making
(30:56):
sure you have a newsletter,knowing who your audience is,
how to reach your audience, likeall of those things that I
learned from being aself-published author.
I had to still use those skillsfor my first two books, and so
it didn't feel like it changedmuch.
The biggest thing was that Ididn't have to print the book.
I didn't have to be the salesmanager, I could just promote it
, right.
(31:16):
But then when Yellow Wife cameout, I think with each book, the
more notoriety I got for thebooks, the better.
The publisher looked at medifferently, right, and so you
sell more books than thepublisher is like oh, we got a
winner.
Okay, let's push Sadiqa back outon book tour.
(31:37):
Are you willing to go?
And I'm like, yes, because youknow I was hustling on the
street the first book.
So, yeah, they asked me to gosomewhere.
I'm definitely going, right.
And so the more you collaboratewith your publishing house and
show them that you havesomething to bring to new light
on the map as far as publishing.
But then with the House of Evesgetting the Reese Witherspoon
(32:19):
pick and then making the NewYork Times bestselling New York
Times bestsellers list, it'salmost like that elevated me in
the eyes of the publisher.
So some of those doors thathave been locked previously are
now wide open, right.
So now I'm going places that Iwasn't going to before.
I'm being asked to show up atevents that before had been
(32:41):
closed to me.
But it's because that sameperson who I was as a
self-published author hustling,hustling, hustling I'm still
that same person today and theysee value in that, and so that's
the biggest change is that themore I've been moving in my
career, more doors have beenopening for me.
J.D. Myall (33:01):
How did you respond when you found out you made the
bestsellers list?
How did you celebrate?
Sadeqa Johnson (33:07):
Well, so first I'll back up to reads, because
that happened first and I knewthat I was being submitted to
some of the celebrity book clubs.
But you know, I wasn't reallythinking about it and I remember
it was I don't know probablySeptember, late September, early
October.
And my editor said, hey, canyou jump on a Zoom call with us?
(33:30):
And I'm telling you, it was oneof those days where, when it's
warm, I write on my stump porchand so normally I have much
bigger hair right, so you canjust imagine all the humidity
sitting outside.
I got on like this rattyt-shirt and usually I'll get
dressed up for a meeting withthe publisher, but I'm like,
just jump on.
So I jump on the call and it'slike my editor, both of my
(33:52):
agents, other people, mypublicist, people from people I
don't even know, and my myeditor says I just want to let
you know that the house of Evehas been selected as a Reese
with a spoon book club pick.
The only caveat, cause the bookat the time was a March
publication date.
The only caveat is that we needto move it to February.
(34:14):
So if you're okay with that,then you're the February pick
and I'm like she can publish thebook tomorrow.
If she wants to, of course, I'mokay with it.
So it was this wonderfullysurprisingly moment, and I had
to sit on it from end ofSeptember to when it was
announced in February.
You literally can't tell anyone.
(34:35):
So I was able to tell myhusband, but that was it.
And then I went on book tour inFebruary and I was in Jackson,
Mississippi I think it might'vebeen Valentine's day.
I was in Jackson Mississippiand waiting for an Uber.
So Jackson I don't know ifanybody's from Jackson, but it's
(34:56):
not like a, it's a city, butit's not like a Philadelphia
city, Right?
So I'm thinking I'm going tocall an Uber and it's going to
be there in like three minutes,while the Uber is like 20
minutes away.
So I'm in the lobby waiting formy Uber and, same thing, my
agent calls me, my editor callsme.
She's like hang on, let mepatch your agent in.
And then they told me that Imade the list, and so I just
(35:18):
remember walking around thelobby like oh my gosh, oh my
gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh.
This is the moment.
Making the New York Timesbestsellers list is the moment
that I had been dreaming ofsince I decided that I was going
to self-publish Love and aCarry-On Bag myself.
My goal was always to make theNew York Times bestsellers list,
and it didn't happen overnight.
(35:38):
It took five books to get there.
It took publishing my own book.
It took hustling everywhere Icould imaginably get my book
into people's hands.
So it took a while to get there.
But that was always the goalfor me, and so it's crazy that I
was by myself when I got thenews.
I had nobody to celebrate with.
I ended up having to go.
I was on my way to a book eventand I couldn't say anything
(36:02):
because I think it's not, it'snot published into a certain
time.
So I couldn't even tell thepeople at the bookstore.
So it was like this moment thatI, it was just me.
It was, it was just me.
(36:22):
Do you have any other advice youwant to give aspiring authors I
would love to share with youguys.
I want you guys to share backwith me too.
So let me know what you'rethinking by getting your
questions ready.
As far as additional advice, Iwould say don't get caught up in
(36:45):
what's popular right now,because I've never done that and
my books always come out andthey're timely.
So, for instance, the Health ofEve deals with women's
reproductive rights.
I couldn't have planned thefact that we will be going
through what we're going throughright now in this country
regarding abortion and all ofthose, you know, fundamental
(37:08):
rights that we're used to having.
But I was already writing thestory.
I think I was on the fifthdraft when Roe v Wade was
overturned in June.
So write the story that youfeel, and the world and the
trends will fit itself aroundyour story.
J.D. Myall (37:24):
Love that.
Does anybody have any questionsfor Sadiqa tonight?
Does anybody have any questionsfor Sadiqa tonight?
Speaker 5 (37:30):
I do Actually a comment and a question, so
without saying too much, becauseI don't know who read it and
who didn't, but a little bit is.
I read both the Yellow Wife andI read the House of Eve and I
was really flabbergasted at theend when that portion of
(37:50):
yellow-white tied into that,like I didn't see it coming.
And it was so perfectly doneeven though I didn't see it
coming.
Was that intentional, did you?
Sadeqa Johnson (38:02):
Yes, it was intentional and it was something
that I decided very early on,because Second House from the
Corner so my first book, lovingto Carry on Bag characters carry
over into Second House from theCorner.
So, even though I'm writing awhole, completely new story, if
you love Loving to Carry on Bag,you get a peek at those
(38:23):
characters that you love so much, even though it's a brand new
story.
And so that was what I wassaying.
I was like, how can I connectthese two books from 1850 to
1950, right.
And so when I figured it out, Ithought, oh, for the people who
love Yellow White, they'regonna be really excited to see
this little small nugget, thislittle Easter egg that brings
(38:44):
these two books together.
And, ironically, the novel thatI'm working on now I already
know that there is a carryovercharacters into the new book.
That's going to also, I hope,make your heart flutter.
Speaker 5 (38:56):
That was nice.
And my second iscongratulations on your
publication of the House of Evein Italy.
Tell us about that.
That had to be wild.
Sadeqa Johnson (39:04):
Yes, oh, thank you for asking about that.
I never think to think but talkabout foreign rights.
So again, I think I'vementioned that I'm a big
visioner, like I have a visionboard, and so always on my
vision board are certain things,and so one of the things that
I've been trying to bring in isforeign rights, because I have
friends who are like, oh, mybook is published in 30
(39:27):
languages.
I'm like what, how did you dothat?
And so I've been on my 30languages.
I'm like what, how did you dothat, you know?
And so I've been on my myagents.
I'm like, talk to the foreignrights agent, like get my books
out there.
And so Yellow Wife was thefirst time that I got a foreign
right and it was Brazilian.
So that was my first um time andso I was really excited about
that.
But I'm like greedy, give memore, give me more Right.
(39:50):
And so when the house of thesewas coming out, we you know my
agent she pushed it, she pushedit, she pushed it.
She wasn't getting a lot ofyeses until I got the Reese pick
.
And so once I got the Reesepick, then I started to get.
I started to get yeses, so it'sItalian.
I started to get yeses, so it'sItalian, dutch, norwegian,
(40:18):
russian, the UK, portuguese, andI think I'm forgetting one more
.
So I think I have six or sevenright now for the House of Eve
and they come out at differenttimes.
So it's already been publishedin the UK.
The Italian and the Portugueseversion has come out, but I have
a few that haven't come out yet, and it's just a matter of my
agent and the foreign rightsagent pushing it to say you know
, they have the connections withthese other companies and then
(40:40):
bringing the rights in, and sothat's that's how it happened.
But it's really excitingbecause, again, another thing
that I've really wanted for along time, another thing that
I've really wanted for a longtime.
Speaker 5 (40:51):
I have one more question, just one more about
that, though.
Um.
So I had Eric Smith'spublishing class, which is
absolutely like amazing, and hebrought in um a foreign, a
foreign, um rights agent, andshe talked about getting those
that sometimes like, like, thecover may be changed, or the
title, and somewhat has changedwas anything?
(41:11):
Did they keep the house of eveas is or did they change
anything?
The cover, the character's name, something of that nature?
Sadeqa Johnson (41:19):
yeah.
So for yellow wife and thebrazilian version they had to
they changed it because I thinkyellow wife was something
derogatory were like, no, wecan't do that.
So they changed it to Phoebe Ithink it's just called Phoebe,
if I remember correctly.
So they changed the title forYellow Wife For the House of E.
Everybody kept the title but,like you saw, the Italian
(41:45):
version changed the cover and Ithink the German version another
version somebody changed thetitle too.
And I think even when theychanged the title my agent was
like that doesn't even soundlike the House of Eve and
they're like no, trust me, youknow, sometimes you have to
trust them because they're likewe know our market and so you
(42:08):
know we give a little pushback,but then oftentimes it's like
okay, we're going to trust you.
So it really depends on whatthe translation means in that
country and if it makes sense ornot.
So with Yellow Wife it wasdefinitely not a good look and
so they changed it to Feedy.
J.D. Myall (42:26):
Awesome.
Any more questions?
Yes, Lee.
Speaker 5 (42:30):
Yeah, I just wanted to ask you about you mentioned a
vision board.
J.D. Myall (42:34):
And I just wondered how that worked.
It sounds like something thatmight be kind of right up my
alley, so can you describe it alittle bit?
Sadeqa Johnson (42:41):
Absolutely, and I keep it in my closet.
I would take my computer inthere to see.
You guys can see it, but mycloset is probably a little
messy.
But what I do is is I take likea big sheet of paper and first
what I do is I put on.
So everything is like a ritualfor me, right?
So I have to burn some sage,add some incense, light some
(43:02):
candles, get the good mojoenergy going, and then I put on
some kind of music that feelslike in my heart, right, like
something that feels like I'mhaving a rebirth, I'm having an
experience, like something ishappening here, right?
So I got to set the scene andthen I have a big sheet of paper
(43:23):
and I usually use a Sharpie andI'll write out like and I try
and do it at the beginning ofthe year this year was so busy.
This is the first year that Ididn't do my vision board going
into the year, but the one thatI did last year is still kind of
bearing fruit, so it was okayand I would put like what my
mission statement is for theyear or what my word is for the
year, like elevate or flourishor multiply, or whatever my word
(43:48):
is.
And then I break up the visionboard in sections.
So one section would be mywriting career and what I'm
trying to bring into fruition.
So, like the New York Timesbestseller Oprah's always on my
list, because who doesn't wantto have an encounter with Auntie
O right?
So you know what awards I wantto win speaking, engagement,
(44:14):
money, like all of those things.
And then I might have anothersection that's just about like
my family, like happy, healthychildren, you know that sort of
thing.
Then maybe a section for travel, places that I want to go, and
I break it up based on whatmakes sense.
And then for the, for the careerI had teaching, right, and look
(44:34):
at this, I've been teaching inthe MFA program for a few years
now, but that was on my visionboard and it was in the middle
of my vision board becausethat's what I really wanted to
bring, you know, into my, intomy, into my life, and you know,
and as things happen, I go intomy closet with a highlighter and
I highlight the things thatcome to fruition, because it's
(44:57):
like a thank you.
It's like I'm saying to youthank you, bring me more, thank
you, bring me more, thank you,bring me more.
And I usually try and do it atthe beginning of the year.
So I missed this year, but theone that I did last year is
still bearing fruit, but I willdo a new one at the top of the
year.
I hope that was helpful.
Thank you, you're welcome.
I think Dionne has her hand up.
Speaker 7 (45:24):
Hi, dionne, how are you?
Good to see you?
Well, I don't really have aquestion, I just have a comment.
First and foremost, I thinkthat the House of Eves is an
incredible body of work and notonly is it entertaining, for me
it's very educational.
I don't want to give a lot ofit away, but like thinking about
the stuff where, like howpregnancy tests were done in the
1940s, and when I came acrossthat part I was like wow, I know
(45:46):
she did a lot of research, likein the days of Claire Blue Easy
, like to have to do all that,like that was really thought
provoking.
And then also the part of theHouse of Eve and like what that
was and like you know, theexperiences of rubies and
probably countless other youngwomen that will never you know,
(46:08):
know and hear about.
It's like it makes you, itmakes me sad for those young
women that will never you know,know and hear about.
It's like it makes you, itmakes me sad for those young
women.
Some of them were there byconsensual situations, some of
them were there by, you know,assault and stuff like that.
So just thinking about likethose types of places, that they
exist, it makes you think wehave come a long way, but then
again, unfortunately, we stillhave a long way to go.
(46:30):
So I just want to thank you foryour body of work.
Sadeqa Johnson (46:34):
Thank you so much.
I appreciate that.
I'm glad you enjoyed it.
J.D. Myall (46:41):
Any other questions ?
Speaker 6 (46:41):
Hi, how are you?
My name is.
I'm a new student in thisprogram, really excited to hear
from you.
I feel like you are like mysister, ken.
I'm from Harlem, I'm in NewYork right now.
I do my meditation, all thatbut and also I love history.
(47:04):
My question for you is how doyou know when to stop the
research?
Sadeqa Johnson (47:16):
And you know as you go and you sift through when
is how, do you know?
Well, I have to say that Harlemhas a very special place in my
life.
When I was in college, I livedon 130th Street between 5th and
Lenox, and I just saw my collegeroommates and we lived in a.
We lived at 12 West.
Speaker 6 (47:37):
And we see each other .
We're like 12 West.
Well, I'm from the LincolnProjects 135th and Madison.
Sadeqa Johnson (47:41):
So when I'm doing the research, how do I
know when to stop?
Well, I have to say thatresearch is so delicious and it
is so easy to research.
Research is easier than writing.
Right Writing is not alwayseasy and you got to focus and
you got to strap in and you gotto settle in and so, with Young
(48:01):
Wife, I gave myself because itwas my first time I gave myself
six, four months of research andas I was researching it, I was
taking what I thought was reallygood notes.
But when I'm completely honest,I'm a little bit like the messy
professor.
I know that there are betterways to keep your research notes
.
I know some people useScrivener.
I can't figure that darn thingout.
(48:22):
I'm very old school.
I have pictures on the wall, Ihave timelines on my wall, I use
notebooks.
I'm sure there's a quicker,faster way, but that's my way
right.
And so I would research and Ihad a five-subject notebook and
I separated by whatever I neededto separate and I plugged in my
research notes.
(48:42):
But with the House of Eve Irealized that I did a little bit
.
I did my research a little bitshorter and got into the story,
and then, when I hit up againstsomething, then I would maybe
stop to do a little research onthat.
So I do a big research up frontand then I write.
And then if I bump up againstsomething I don't know, like in
Yellow Wife, I've done all thisresearch and I'm in the first
(49:05):
chapter and Phoebe goes into thehouse because she's not usually
the one who dresses themistress, and she goes to dress
the mistress and I'm like, ohgosh, I did all this research.
Well, what does she have on andhow do you tie a corset?
And so I'll stop and get thosedetails and then I'll feed it
into the story.
Speaker 6 (49:24):
Thank you so much.
And, funny thing, my daughter'sname is Phoebe.
Oh wow.
Sadeqa Johnson (49:28):
And funny thing my daughter's name is Phoebe.
J.D. Myall (49:33):
Oh wow, I love the fact that you visited the Black
sororities in the House of Evetoo, because, you know, I know a
lot of that history fromhearing my grandmother talk and
stuff like that, but I've neverseen it in a book before.
Sadeqa Johnson (49:44):
So that was cool .
J.D. Myall (49:46):
Thank you.
Anybody else have any questions?
No, okay, well, I appreciateyou for giving us this time and
all this great information.
I'm sure we'll use it to enrichour stories and grow as writers
.
Oh, I'm sorry, we have aquestion from tori and no, we go
ahead.
Oh, I was just, um, you know,celebrating.
(50:07):
Thank you, tori again.
Um, if you guys get the chanceto work with Sadiqa, she is the
awesome, the most awesome, well,one of the most awesome.
I had some great packetexchange teachers, but she was
one of my faves.
She did a fabulous job, reallyelevated my writing and I
greatly appreciate her and Igreatly appreciate knowing me
and this wonderful program.
I hope you guys do.
For those of you that are stillin school, hey, good to meet
(50:33):
you.
Um, can't tell you my real nameright now because we're airing
this but you know, hopefullyI'll see you at the alumni
events and I can tell you all inperson and, like I said, it's
been a great night.
We appreciate you knowing me,we appreciate you Sadiqa, we
appreciate you everybody.
That's here, jamie Moe Angeleverybody, I know everybody know
hey, good to meet you.
Sadeqa Johnson (50:52):
Thank you guys so much.
Yeah, this has been such anhonor and a pleasure.
Thank you for allowing me tohave this time with you.
I hope that you guys gotsomething from my story.
I just want to leave you withsome encouraging words to say
that there's no accident whileyou were here.
We are storytellers, that thatwe, we all, have a purpose,
(51:12):
right, and so our purpose is totell stories.
If we don't tell our stories,then who will?
And so I charge you withshowing up for your writing,
making a schedule.
It could be 30 minutes, like Ithink two hours, is good, but it
could be 30 minutes, like 30minutes a day, and before you
know it, you have 50 pages.
So write that story that youfeel in your heart.
(51:33):
Don't let anybody discourageyou.
You know, put your writingfirst, and I can't wait to read
your books on the shelf.
Thank you so much.
You all have a great evening.
J.D. Myall (51:43):
Thank you guys.
Thank you again, Naomi.
Sadeqa Johnson (51:45):
Good night, you guys, thank you.
Good night, you guys, thank youGood night.
Speaker 8 (51:56):
That wraps up today's Craft Chat Chronicles with JD
Mayor.
Thanks for joining us.
If you liked the episode,please comment, subscribe and
share.
For show notes, writingworkshops and tips, head t.
That's j.
(52:17):
While you're there, join JD'smailing list for updates,
giveaways.
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