When the blank page becomes a canvas for a bestselling novel, what's the secret behind the first stroke of genius? Ava Reid, acclaimed author of dark academia's gripping tales, joins us to unravel the artistry of hooking readers from the get-go. She opens up about her own transformation from writing in solitude to embracing the glaring spotlight of success. Her frank discussion on the ebbs and flows of authorship, right down to the Wikipedia page with quirky inaccuracies about her life, offers a rare glimpse into the emotional whirlwind that accompanies literary fame.
Crafting characters that linger in the minds of readers long after the last page is a feat few master, but Ava shares her insights into breathing life into the unhinged protagonists that haunt the corridors of gothic fiction. This episode is not just about the allure of the macabre; it's a roadmap through the labyrinth of the publishing industry, from the mentorship that can change the game for aspiring writers to the pivotal role of agents who champion their authors' careers. The blend of personal anecdotes with practical advice on storytelling structures like the Save the Cat beat sheet ensures that this conversation is both enlightening and grounded in the realities of writing.
As your host, I reflect on my own meandering path to authorship, marked by challenges that resonate with so many who dare to dream of writing. From lessons learned in self-publishing to the revelatory moments that led to a coveted book deal, my story is one of resilience and the relentless pursuit of a passion for storytelling. As we wrap up, the excitement builds for future episodes, where we'll hear from 2025's debut authors. They're gearing up to share the craft that landed them in the publishing world, promising to be an invaluable trove of knowledge for writers at any stage of their journey. Stay tuned as we continue to explore the landscape of literature, one page at a time.
Keywords: writing, traditional publishing, book marketing, making a living with your writing, writing tips, book marketing, promotion, writing techniques, young adult fiction, dark academia, gothic novels, book promotion, audience engagement, marketing strategies, literary agents, publishing, a writer's journey, writing life, tips, publishing story, Ava Reid, J. D. Myall, Drexel University, Writer's Digest, author.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to Craft Chat Chronicles, the go-to podcast
for tips on craftingbest-selling fiction.
Here at Craft Chat Chronicles,we bring you expert interviews,
insights and tips on writing,publishing and marketing.
J.D. Myall (00:22):
Welcome to Season 1, episode 3 of Craft Chat
Chronicles.
Today, we'll be talking to awoman who was number one on the
New York Times bestseller list,that's author Ava Reid.
She'll give us tips on writinga best-selling dark academia
novel and discuss her writingand publishing journey, and a
(00:44):
lot more.
Stay tuned Things have beengoing good for you bestsellers
list.
Ava Reid (00:50):
Yeah, it's been a big surprise, honestly.
J.D. Myall (00:54):
Exciting.
How are you liking being apublished author?
Ava Reid (01:03):
It's good.
It's good it's more emotionallycomplex than I expected it to
be.
I think it's just like you know, with my two previous books
they didn't flop or anythinghorrible like that, but they
didn't get this kind of level ofattention.
So it's just hearing so manypeople's opinions and being
(01:26):
exposed to so many people'sopinions even if they're good
opinions it's just likeinformation overload to the
point where I'm like I need tojust stop looking at like any
tagged posts and stuff like thatbecause again, even if it's
positive, I'm like this is justmaking me feel too many things
okay.
J.D. Myall (01:44):
Okay, cool, you like in California.
I know you recently moved there.
Ava Reid (01:49):
I've been here since 2018, actually, yeah, but I'm
from New York, so very, verydifferent.
J.D. Myall (01:58):
Okay, so I'll dive in now.
What do you believe are theessential elements needed to
capture a reader's attention onthe first page?
Ava Reid (02:12):
I have a friend, victoria Lee, who when they this
was advice about a query but Ithink it kind of applies to a
first page too, but I think itkind of applies to a first page
too is you basically need aninteresting character in an
interesting world with aninteresting problem.
And I think that if you cankind of capture all of those
(02:35):
three things on the first pagewhich you know can be difficult,
but I think if you can captureall those three things, that's a
very effective opening.
J.D. Myall (02:44):
But I think if you can capture all those three
things, that's a very effectiveopening.
Ava Reid (02:54):
Did you have any like surprises during your publisher?
So so many surprises probablytoo many to count.
I think the biggest surprisewas just how long the process
ultimately takes.
I mean, I sold A Study inDrowning in early 2020, late
(03:15):
2020, early 2021.
And then it came out in fall of2023.
So it was definitely like avery long process of you know
getting through the edits andproduction and so many people
you know having their hands onthe book.
You know not just your editors,that the copy editors, but like
(03:36):
marketing and sales, and youknow getting all of that kind
kind of feedback.
It was, it was it's so involvedand it's so it takes so long,
which was I think I was preparedfor that a little bit, but I
wasn't fully prepared for thethe extent of it.
(03:57):
So how did the reality of beinga published author differ from
what you fantasized about itwhen you were a young girl, or
when you were Um, I mean, Ithink when I was younger, I mean
I'm like zillennial, like kindof right on that cusp, so like I
(04:18):
did grow up with the internet,but not at all the way that it
is now.
Um, so I thought of writingalways as like a pretty
anonymous thing.
I mean, I got my start on likefanfictionnet, writing like
warrior cats fan fiction, which,like you know, I'm just doing
that anonymously behind anaccount, um, but that's not
(04:39):
really like realistic.
You can't really be have thatlevel of anonymity as an author
anymore, I mean, unless you'relike Otessa Voschbeck.
Um, so I I really didn't knowwhen I was younger that it would
kind of there would be thislevel of of like scrutiny about
(05:01):
me, not just my works.
Um, like, I saw someone made awikipedia page for me the other
day.
Like, literally, my husbandcame in the room he was like, oh
no, you're not gonna like this.
And I was like what?
And he was like you have awikipedia page now and I'm like,
oh my god, um, with a bunch ofincorrect information.
Mind you, I don't know who putit together, but a bunch of
(05:22):
stuff is wrong.
So, yeah, I didn't anticipatehaving to be so present as a
person, in addition to just kindof sharing my work.
How does that feel?
I mean, I think it's adouble-edged sword, right, and I
(05:43):
think most authors willprobably say the same thing like
getting to connect directlywith readers can be really
really great and to just hearthat you're and know that your
work has touched people in allthese different ways.
And then obviously there's thedouble-edged sword of that,
(06:04):
which is people just having alot of access to you and kind of
demanding your opinions andyour takes and your identity to
kind of justify the things thatyou're writing about.
And I think, especially nowthat readers kind of want that
more than ever.
They want to know you know howyour identity kind of connects,
(06:25):
that more than ever they want toknow you know how your identity
kind of connects to your work.
And most people, I don't think,mean it in like a hostile way
or anything, but I think theimpact can be that it feels very
intrusive sometimes.
J.D. Myall (06:41):
I get it.
I think for most people it'swanting to see themselves
reflected, so they want to hearthat you know you identify with
this or that, so they can bondwith that.
But at the same time we allhave chapters of our life we
don't want read out loud.
Ava Reid (06:56):
Yeah, I yeah, and I think that again it comes a lot
of it comes from a good place,so I try not to be like
completely dismissive of it butat the same time it's like you
know, if I'm writing about likemental illness and abuse and
stuff, I think you can trustthat, like this is something
that I've been through withoutme having to elucidate all of
these, these details and it'ssomething that touches almost
(07:20):
all of us.
J.D. Myall (07:20):
To be honest with you, yeah, what is your process
for creating complex characters?
Ava Reid (07:28):
um, I so I'm like a thematic writer.
So the first thing that kind ofcomes to me for a book idea
isn't necessarily the what ofthe book but the why of the book
, if that makes sense.
So like, why do I want to tellthis story, what do I want to
communicate, what is kind of thecentral theme or central idea
(07:49):
that I want to explore?
And then I see everything fromeven you know the characters,
the prose styles, the plot asbeing reflective of that theme.
So it all kind of comes fromthat, you know, and the idea in
A Study in Drowning that Iwanted to explore was this idea
of stories and you know yourheroes failing you and what
(08:15):
makes a story true or real orresonant and who gets to tell
these stories and who isbelieved when they do so.
Then you know, the characterskind of all sprang from that and
they all kind of reflect thosethemes in a different way.
J.D. Myall (08:39):
I love that.
What do you think makes a goodprotagonist?
Ava Reid (08:48):
so, for me, what makes a good protagonist is being a
little bit like unhinged andweird.
Um, and I think anyone who'sread my books will kind of see
that that's the case.
Um, you know my face.
Some of my like favoriteprotagonists are, like I think I
literally have this in myInstagram bio like Mary Kat
Blackwood from we have AlwaysLived in the Castle.
(09:08):
I think she's such anincredible protagonist.
I love being in her head, likeshe's so strange and such an
interesting character to followand the way that she sees the
world is just so trippy andfascinating to follow.
And the way that she sees theworld is just like so trippy and
fascinating.
Um, and in a study and drowningeffie, the main character is a
(09:29):
very, very unreliable narrator.
Um, I mean, she literally, youknow, struggles with these
hallucinations, these delusions,um, and that's to me.
I know that a lot of peoplewon't agree, but like, those are
the most interesting charactersto me.
Kind of a hallmark of the gotGothic genre is having these
unreliable narrators and beingimmersed in the mind of someone
(09:51):
you can't necessarily fullytrust, and that's always really
interesting to me.
J.D. Myall (09:55):
I love that.
What other elements do youthink are essential to a good
Gothic novel?
Ava Reid (10:31):
no-transcript gothic renaissance but like to me, this
very baroque and detailed prosestyle is like essential to a
gothic novel, or at least agothic novel that I'm gonna
enjoy.
Um, I really do like theheavily stylized, like melodrama
of the gothic style and that'sthat feels essential to me love
(10:56):
that.
J.D. Myall (10:58):
What makes a good villain in your gothic novels?
Ava Reid (11:03):
I mean it's funny because gothic novels give the
gothic genre gives actually avery good kind of archetype of a
villain and usually it's kindof this mysterious and sinister
like master of the house.
That usually represents likekind of like the old ways and in
(11:23):
this you know tradition wherewe're talking about like the
erosion of aristocratic power.
He usually kind of representsthe like, the clinging to this
kind of old, outmoded way oflife.
Um, and I think that that iskind of that's there in both of
my of my Gothic novels.
The villains really representthat and I think that's maybe
(11:49):
not necessarily essential, butthat's kind of the classic
Gothic archetype of a villain.
J.D. Myall (11:58):
Tell me a little bit about your publishing journey.
I'm going to go back to crackto.
I'm jumping around journey.
Ava Reid (12:08):
I'm gonna go back to crack too.
I'm jumping around, um.
So I mean, I have wanted to bea writer, I think since I was
again like 11 years old, on thewarrior cats fan fiction forums,
um, doing my little role plays,but I didn't start like kind of
seriously working to getpublished until like 2018.
I just graduated college and Iwas just I was working at this
(12:29):
startup because I live inSilicon Valley.
I was working at this AIrobotics startup, which was very
interesting, and I was justwriting and writing and trying
to finish my first novel.
And then I got into thispitching contest like mentorship
program, which actually doesn'texist anymore, but when it did
it was like a pretty big dealand a lot of famous books came
(12:52):
out of it.
So I got in and I was mentoredby this amazing author and she
kind of like showed me the ropesand, you know, got my book in
front of agents and that's how Ifound my first agent, got my
first publishing deal in 2018.
And that part happened prettyquickly.
And then, you know, now it'slike six years later and we're
(13:17):
three novels in, so it'sdefinitely a protracted process,
but before I, you know, wrotewhat would become my debut.
I wrote so many other booksthat you know we'll never see
the light of day and I kind ofqueried them on and off but
(13:37):
never really.
I didn't.
I didn't really understand,like, what the querying process
was like and I basically justlike didn't really know what I
the querying process was likeand I basically just like didn't
really know what I was doing.
So that was never going to besuccessful.
J.D. Myall (13:48):
But it was kind of this mentorship program that I
was in that started, started itall well, what um advice would
you have for other writers whoare just now in the midst of the
querying process, and or whereyou were then?
Ava Reid (14:04):
um, I'm always like hesitant to give advice about
this because querying haschanged a lot since I last
queried again, like almost sixyears ago now, and I like the
kind of landscape is verydifferent.
But I'll refer back to myfriend Victoria's advice about
how your query needs to have aninteresting character in an
(14:25):
interesting world with aninteresting problem.
Another thing is definitely youhave to be like reading and
know what's selling in yourgenre.
Like I think a lot of agentssay that they get queries that
are just like your comp title islike Harry Potter and like
Blood Meridian and it's likethis is not like.
(14:47):
This is not what's beingpublished right now.
Like you need to be reading,you know new releases and
keeping up with what publishersare actually buying, um, and
instead of you know comic booksthat are from you know two
decades.
J.D. Myall (15:04):
What were your literary influences?
Ava Reid (15:07):
Oh, a lot.
I mean I draw a lot from theGothic genre.
I collect copies of we haveAlways Lived in the Castle by
Shirley Jackson.
I love all of her work so much.
The classic Gothic author islike Mary Shelley.
Gorman Gast is another bookthat's been a big influence on
(15:30):
me.
I also really love kind of thetradition of fabulism, like the
books of Karen Russell have beenreally.
I remember I picked up herfirst short story collection
from a used bookstore when I waslike 19.
And I'd been like on a kind oflike drought of inspiration in
(15:52):
both reading and writing and Ipicked up that book because the
title was awesome.
The title is St Lucy's Home forGirls Raised by Wolves and I
read it and it was kind of thebook where I was like, oh,
reading is fun and like style,like prose, style is just as
(16:15):
essential as content and I thinkthat that was the book that
kind of made me really thinkthat and care so much about
style, really think that andcare so much about about style.
So that and Kelly Link andHelen Oyeyemi are other authors
in that tradition who I really,really love and draw a lot from.
J.D. Myall (16:37):
So you mentioned a minute ago about how you know
people need to be aware ofwhat's selling.
From your perspective, what doyou think is hot right now?
What do you think is selling?
Ava Reid (16:47):
I mean I can only speak to the genres that I write
in, so you know SFF and YA, butI mean romanticy is the big
thing right now.
That's pretty much almostexclusively what I think SFF
publishers are interested inbuying, If not you know kind of
romantic, at least books with astrong romantic subplot, because
(17:09):
that's what BookTok wants toread, For better or for worse.
I think dark academia is a bigtrend right now.
I think we're gonna see a bigrenaissance of dystopia because
of the ballad of songbirds andsnakes and we're seeing a you
know kind of renewed interest inin that.
(17:30):
Um, yeah, I can't necessarilyspeak to other genres, but
that's, that's what I'm seeingand the genres that I write in
so you talked about romanticism.
J.D. Myall (17:40):
Do you have any advice for creating a good
romantic subplot or romance?
Ava Reid (17:49):
I don't know.
I, like all my books, do haveromance, but I've never really
considered myself to be like awriter of romance.
Like I remember when I wasrevising my first novel, which
which has a romantic subplot butthat's not really the main plot
of the book, and I was gettingfeedback from my editor about
(18:11):
kind of like strengthening theromantic subplot and I was like
I don't even know how to do this.
And I went to my friend, alisonSaft, and I was like, who
writes romance?
Who writes really, reallyamazing romance?
And I was like, how do I dothis?
And she was like, well, what islike the first?
She was like going to talk methrough it, like I was a small
child.
And she was like, so what isthe first moment when, like,
(18:34):
they realize they're attractedto each other?
And I was like I don't know,like I wasn't even thinking
about these things while writingUm, um I.
So, yeah, I'm not sure I havemuch good advice about that, but
I think that the best romancesto me are the ones where the
(18:55):
characters find something andthe other that they can't find
in anyone else and where theirkind of wounds are the same.
Yeah, I don't think this is myforte as an author, necessarily.
J.D. Myall (19:12):
That was really good , though I haven't heard that
before.
Do you have any tips for makingthe beginning of your story
exciting?
Ava Reid (19:33):
Keeping readers engaged.
Basically, yeah, um, again, Ifeel like I'm not the best
equipped to answer, just becauseI feel like every single book I
write, the feedback I get islike the opening is too slow and
we need to get to the actionsooner.
Um, yeah, I don't know.
I mean, I think that readerswant to feel like or I as a
(19:55):
reader want to feel like you'rekind of in competent hands and
that the author has kind of astrong vision and you can trust
that you're gonna, that they'regonna take you there.
If that makes sense, it does.
Books that I tend to loseinterest in are the ones where
(20:16):
it feels like the author is justkind of doing whatever is
easier for them um, having astrong vision, for you know what
they want for the book andbeing like in control of all
aspects of of their craft.
You know pro style characters.
(20:37):
You know plotting intention.
J.D. Myall (20:42):
How do you avoid the saggy middle?
Ava Reid (20:48):
I thought.
So I try.
I'm not really much of anoutliner at all, but I try to
follow the Save the Cat beatsheet, which is, I think, like a
resource that pretty much everyauthor loves and refers to a
lot, but it basically gives youall of these you know, kind of
plot beats to follow to makesure that you know you don't
(21:10):
lose tension and you keep yourreaders engaged, and I think
that's a super helpful resourcefor any author.
And, you know, obviously youcan deviate from that a bit, but
I think that's like a greatstarting point if you're just,
you know, starting to kind ofmap out the plot of your book.
J.D. Myall (21:29):
Love that.
Any advice for making the endcompelling?
Ava Reid (21:38):
and tying things up.
See, I am someone who actuallyis okay with endings that are a
bit open-ended and still havingquestions.
It's funny, my editor tried liketwo or three times to get me to
change the ending of A Study inDrowning because she thought it
was like too open-ended.
But I don't know, I've alwaysreally enjoyed endings where,
(22:02):
like you still have somelingering questions and it kind
of makes you want to like rereadthe book and like see if
there's you, you know, stuffthat you missed or stuff that
you're only going to get, youknow, in a second read through,
um, and you know, maybe considerthat you don't need to.
You know, wrap everything upneatly with a bow and and some
(22:25):
ambiguity is is okay again, aslong as you're kind of in
control of that, and that's anactive choice that you're making
, as opposed to just saying, oh,I'm going to leave this, you
know, not tied up, just becauseit's like easier and I don't
want to deal with it.
I love that, it makes sense.
(22:46):
It's just, my process is likeextremely chaotic, so I'm trying
my best to like not make itsound that way you're doing a
great job.
J.D. Myall (22:56):
How did you get the news that you made the
bestseller list and how did youcelebrate?
Ava Reid (23:02):
um, oh my gosh.
So I think, again, every writerexperience, every author
experiences this.
Like, I think, again, everywriter experience, every author
experiences this like stressful,tense week between your release
and when the bestseller listcomes out, which is, at
California time, it's 4 pm onWednesday.
(23:24):
So I was just a complete ballof stress like the entire week.
And it was horrible on Tuesdayor Tuesday and Wednesday because
, like, I'd heard from somepeople that like, oh, publishers
get the list ahead of time, soyou know, ahead of time, um, and
then my editor, my agent, waslike no, that's not true.
And I was like wow, but likewhat, if it is?
And then, like no one's tellingme because I didn't make the
(23:45):
list, all this was.
It was like it was actuallyhorrible.
I was so stressed out, um, andthen on Wednesday, again, I was
just a ball of stress the entiretime, um, and I told my agent
to, because New York Timessubscribers do get the list sent
to them like, just, you know anhour, usually a couple hours,
ahead of time, um, and I told myagent to just call me um, if,
(24:12):
if it happened, and I was justlike sitting there right at this
desk.
I was just like sitting there,like literally wait, like
waiting as the time ticked down,waiting, waiting, waiting for
the call.
Um, and she called me and she Iwas like did it, did it happen?
And she was like yeah, and shewas like it's, it's number one.
Um, yeah, and I I just likeburst into tears, I think, um,
(24:37):
and it was just amazing to getthe news from my agent too,
because she's like, she's likethe most important person in my
kind of publishing career andlike we've been together forever
and she's just so supportiveand I love her so much so it
just felt really special to getthe news from her specifically.
Yeah, uh, sarah Landis atSterling Lord.
(24:57):
Um, I love her so much.
If anyone is like looking forsomeone to query, 100,000
percent recommend her.
I think anyone would be solucky to be represented by her.
Um, and so much of my, like youknow, success as an author is
owed to her.
J.D. Myall (25:13):
Um, yeah, what makes that author?
Agent or any author agentrelationship work from your
perspective I think so, mostpeople, I think.
Ava Reid (25:25):
When they're queer, understandably they focus on,
you know, just the sale and theyjust want their book to sell,
which again, very reasonable.
Reasonable request from an agentis sell my book.
But what's just as important ishaving that support after the
sale.
And Sarah is actually my secondagent and my first agent was
the one who got me my book deal,but then she was just kind of
(25:48):
like ghosted me basically aftershe sold it, like she was just
not interested in kind ofhelping me deal with everything
that came after.
And like that is the reallyimportant part is your agent,
you know, kind of holding yourhand through all this and being
able to tell you, okay, this isa normal part of the process, or
(26:09):
like no, your publisher is likescrewing you over.
We need to like talk to thembecause you know, again, this
happens a lot.
As an author, you basically haveno bargaining power with your
publisher, which is very cool.
So your agent is the one who'sbasically your advocate to your
publisher and you know they'rethe person who kind of has their
(26:34):
finger on the button tellingyou you know, my agent is always
the one that I will send apitch to or send you know parts
of what the book I'm working onand be like.
Do you think this is somethingI should pursue?
Like what do you?
Do you think this is the rightstep for my career?
Do you think that this willwork in the market?
So she's the one who I kind oftrust on that and just like
(26:56):
genuine emotional support.
She's talking me off the ledgelike more times than I can count
.
When you know just stuff inpublishing is it just really
gets to you.
So yeah, I think that, excuseme me, your agent is like 100%
the most important person um inyour publishing journey that's
(27:18):
awesome.
J.D. Myall (27:19):
A lot of writers complain about not feeling like
they've had um a lot of supportin the marketing and stuff side.
Yeah, you experienced that.
Or were all of your books verywell marketed?
Ava Reid (27:30):
Oh my God, where to even begin.
This is like oh my gosh.
So I don't know how much ofthis you want to use but for a
study and drowning.
You know, I think the biggestsingle indicator of how much
marketing support you'll get foryour book is usually the
(27:51):
advance amount.
I mean, that's quite literallyyour publisher communicating to
you how much they think yourbook is worth.
And based on the advance amountI got for A Study in Drowning
and I sold A Study in Drowningbefore my first book had even
come out so I had no salesrecord.
So you know I didn't expect tobe like, you know, giant, you
know splashy, auction, whatever.
(28:11):
And based on the advance amount,you know I knew that it would
be kind of a mid list title.
I knew it wasn't going to bethe lead title for the season or
whatever.
A lead title is just like theone book per publishing season
that the publisher tends tofocus the most on and make the
biggest deal about.
So I knew that that wasn't, youknow, going to be a study of
drowning and that it was kind ofthis weird book.
(28:33):
It wasn't like super highconcept.
So I did know that going in,but I was still pretty surprised
by how, let's just say, handsoff my publisher was.
I mean, they told me that as acost-cutting measure, they were
(28:54):
not doing physical arcs, whichare just arcs.
There's advanced copies of thebook that you send out to, you
know, readers and reviewers tobuild hype and suspense, and
that's one of the most importantmarketing tools for a book.
And they were just like we'renot doing that.
So I just didn't have those andthey didn't run.
(29:16):
They ran like one paid ad, Ithink, and like did like one
Goodreads giveaway, like theweek of release for like five
copies.
So I, you know, I was keepingtrack of kind of these early
indicators, you know, amazonranking, barnes Noble ranking
social media statistics, and Iended up sending over to Harper
(29:41):
just a document with all ofthese early indicators and I was
like hey, I think that peopleare really interested in this
and like maybe you should takethat into account.
That was brilliant by the way.
Yeah, and it they did end upraising the marketing budget for
the book.
I'm not sure by how much, butit did.
It did get them to pay a littlemore attention again.
(30:03):
I don't think that's somethingauthors should have to do
because, like, the whole pointof traditional publishing is
that your publisher is supposedto take care of all of that.
Um, but again, it's like thisera of social media is a
double-edged sword, because youactually can, you know?
J.D. Myall (30:21):
you can see in real time what's happening, and
because you can.
Ava Reid (30:26):
You know, despite the capricious nature of the
algorithm and stuff, you canmove the needle on your own as
an author, and that was likesomething that was really
essential to, I think, a studyon drowning success.
I mean, this was kind ofdefinitionally like a word of
mouth kind of success, wherepeople just read it and then
(30:50):
they told people that they likedit.
You know, it didn't have thisgiant marketing campaign behind
it, it didn't even have physicalarcs, um, but I think it just.
I mean, it's a testament tojust the power of readers.
Um, and it's been kind ofamazing for this to be.
The book that's been sosuccessful is the one that was,
(31:16):
you know, a word of mouthsuccess, the one that kind of no
one in my publisher expected toto be big, that I didn't
necessarily expect to be big.
Um, I will never take that forgranted and I'll never not feel
grateful that the book ended upresonating with so many people
who just wanted to talk about it.
J.D. Myall (31:38):
Um, that's exciting, funny.
You know good experience.
Um purely selfish questionCause I just sold a book.
What?
Ava Reid (31:49):
Oh my God, congratulations.
That's amazing.
What's your debut?
J.D. Myall (31:53):
Um, it's a YA fantasy romancy book.
It's these time travelingpeople.
It's filled as, like the nightcircus meets outlander.
Ava Reid (32:03):
Ooh, that's so cool.
What Um?
So that's amazing.
Congratulations.
J.D. Myall (32:09):
So what can I expect ?
What's debut year look like?
Ava Reid (32:15):
I don't know.
Do you know when it's releasingit?
J.D. Myall (32:17):
was a two-bit deal, so one is 2025 and one is 2026.
Ava Reid (32:22):
Okay, so you've got some time.
Yeah, that's awesome.
Sorry, what was your question?
I got distracted.
What's?
J.D. Myall (32:28):
debut year like life .
What can I expect?
Where the challenges, thepitfalls.
Ava Reid (32:34):
I think one of the biggest pitfalls that kind of
really gets people is just thecomparison with other books and
other debuts, and like that cankind of be like the harbinger of
doom for a lot of people isjust this constant need to
compare to other people and itis really hard to not view other
(32:57):
authors as your competitionbecause like in some sense, this
is sort of a zero-sum game.
You know, if someone else getsthat book deal, it means that
you don't get that book deal.
So that, I think, is reallysomething that I would recommend
and it's inevitable.
You'll feel those emotionsinevitably.
(33:19):
But I think the most importantthing is to just kind of find
your little group and yourpeople, people that you trust,
people who are going throughsimilar things.
Having those friends and thoseconnections was so essential for
me and just like keeping mysanity during debut year and
also it's not everything.
(33:39):
I mean my debut was fine, itwas, it did okay.
I mean it wasn't like again,this big slaggy thing is
studying.
Drowning is my third book, soit's definite.
And I have so many friends whoare on you know their fourth,
fifth, sixth, seventh books, andthat was the one that popped
off Becca Ross, who's beenwriting like I've loved her
(34:02):
books forever.
She's just been consistentlyputting out just amazing,
amazing books and I feel likeshe's finally getting, you know,
getting recognition for it,which is awesome, and this is
her seventh book.
So, yeah, just remember thatit's not everything and it's not
like your one chance and if youblow that, it's like your
(34:24):
career is over.
That's definitely definitelynot true, even though that
narrative is like very heavilypushed um.
J.D. Myall (34:32):
But yeah, that's encouraging.
Thank you, um.
What message would you like togive?
Um, just in general, like anyclosing thoughts for readers,
for fans, for aspiring readers,for anybody um, I've always.
Ava Reid (34:50):
I mean, I think all writing advice at this point is
kind of a cliche um, which isfine, but I think my kind of
favorite piece of writing advice, or the one that resonates with
me the most, is just to writethe story that only you can
write and the one that feels themost real and true and honest
(35:17):
to you, something that you'reproud of, because this is a
really really emotionally taxingexperience, that it's a really
tough industry and you're gonnahave to fight really hard for
your book and for your visionand you're gonna spend years and
years working on this book.
And you're going to have tofight really hard for your book
and for your vision and you'regoing to spend years and years
working on this book and you'regoing to have to again defend it
(35:40):
to people and deal withcriticism.
So if it's not truly like aproject from your heart, I think
you're going to find that verydifficult.
And I think the difficultmoments of publishing all the
many, many times where it's justlike I wanted to give up it was
that idea of my book issomething that was really
(36:02):
important to me.
That kind of kept me going.
What are you working on now?
What are you working on now?
I actually just got my uh lineedits for my next YA project, um
, which is coming out in 2025 Ibelieve in the winter of 2025,
um, so I will be working on thatexciting.
J.D. Myall (36:28):
Where can people connect with you?
Ava Reid (36:38):
So mostly on Instagram .
It's just at Ava S Reid.
I do have a TikTok.
I'm really bad about using it.
It's also at Ava S Reid.
I'm trying to make a concertedeffort in 2024 to post on that
more regularly.
But my main is instagram and Ialso have a terribly, terribly
outdated author website, butthat's also avasreadcom.
Don't be like me if you're anauthor, update your author
(37:00):
website regularly well.
J.D. Myall (37:04):
you were a joy to talk to in interview and
interview, and I wish youcontinued success.
You don't need my little wishes, though You're already flying.
Ava Reid (37:11):
No, I mean, I appreciate it.
That's another thing about thisindustry is things can change
very, very quickly.
Perfect.
J.D. Myall (37:18):
Thank you so much.
I appreciate your time, Iappreciate your patience.
Ava Reid (37:23):
Of course, this is great.
I hope you're feeling okay.
You're a doctor's appointment.
J.D. Myall (37:27):
I got hit by a car a lot that's awful.
Ava Reid (37:31):
I hope you feel better soon, jesus it's like
everything happens at once.
J.D. Myall (37:35):
First I got like the book deal and I was excited
because that's been a goalforever.
So I was like, yes, a dreamcome true.
They got hit by a car likeliterally.
Ava Reid (37:43):
I'm so sorry for laughing, but that's like it.
J.D. Myall (37:45):
like, what is fate doing?
Ava Reid (37:46):
Oh yeah, Well, that's going to be a great story.
You know, when you're doinginterviews like this and people
ask you like what was your likepublishing experience like, and
you're like, well, I got my bookdeal.
Then I got hit by a car, butagain, thank you so much and you
have a wonderful day.
J.D. Myall (38:04):
I appreciate you.
Ava Reid (38:06):
Of course you too Feel better.
J.D. Myall (38:10):
Thank, of course you too Feel better.
Thank you Bye.
Nice meeting you.
I hope you enjoyed our chatwith Ava Reid today.
You can find Ava's bookswherever books are sold.
And now, for those of you whoare curious, I figured I'd end
episode three by giving you alittle bit of background and
history on myself and mypublishing journey.
Hope you enjoy.
(38:33):
Okay, so my publishing journey.
My publishing journey was kindof like a twisty turny one.
I always loved to read my entirelife.
I was the odd kid that wouldread a 300-page book a day.
I loved really all kinds ofbooks.
(38:58):
One of my favorite books wasKindred by Octavia Butler.
I used to read a lot of BCAndrews, stephen King, anne Rice
when I was really young.
I liked books like Will ofThunder.
(39:19):
Hear my Cry.
I was obsessed with theOutsider.
At one point when I was young,I think I read that book like 32
times and I memorized the firstpage.
When I stepped out into thebright sunlight, in the darkness
of the movie house, I had onlytwo things on my mind Paul
Newman and a ride home.
I could go on and on, but Ijust further embarrassed myself.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
so I was always a book nerd always loved writing.
J.D. Myall (39:40):
Um novel was really bad but oddly, like the very
first time I attempted to writea novel, a lot of the plot
elements had were similar to themovie Soul Flute, which was
(40:03):
really odd because I was superyoung at the time and I was just
writing and being creative andI went to the movie and I saw it
and I was like wow the time andI was just writing and being
creative and I was the movie andI saw it and I was like wow,
somebody did that already.
They did it so much better thanmy little young attempt to do
this.
Um, then I was an army brat, soI moved around a lot and, again,
(40:25):
books were my best friend.
I was raised as an only child,um, my brother wasn't born until
years later and I have a sister, but we weren't raised in the
same home.
We have different mothers so Ididn't meet her until way later.
Um, so yeah, I was an army brat.
(40:46):
I loved to read, I loved books.
It was a little odd and quirkyStill a little odd and a little
quirky, and I just always read,always wrote.
I decided I wanted to attempt todo it professionally, pretty
much after I got divorced.
I was a single mom with kids,two of whom are autistic and on
(41:07):
the spectrum, kids um, two ofwhom are autistic and on the
spectrum, um, four kids, so four, four kids and was just really
trying to process a lot of whatI've been through and just
trying to get back in touch withmy creative side and my writing
.
I did photography and stuff too, so I was just really trying to
(41:27):
reconnect with the parts ofmyself that I lost during that
toxic and abusive relationshipand got back into writing again,
and I was, you know, prettystrong at poetry.
My plots would fall apart in alonger narrative.
Short stories and actual novelsare very different.
(41:56):
I didn't know anything aboutwriting craft, but I definitely
had a lot of belief in myself,even though I didn't have the
ability to back it up yet.
So I sent it to the book I'vewritten to be professionally
edited.
This time it's like, oh, I'mreally taking this seriously.
Now I'm gonna get an editor,I'm gonna do the things I think
professional writers should do.
(42:16):
And this editor was basicallylike um, she was a really good
lady.
She could have just took mymoney even though the project
was nowhere near ready for that.
But she was like sweetie, um,you need to learn story craft,
you know, you need to get betterat plotting.
Um, you know, and she was right, I needed beta readers to look
(42:37):
at it to help me identify thethings that were working, the
things that were not.
It didn't make sense to pay.
For example, it didn't makesense to pay for edits on parts
of a novel that should be cutbecause they weren't serving the
story.
So you know.
But she put me on to learningabout craft and recommended some
craft books and I absolutelyadore and love craft from like
(43:02):
Donald's Donald Moss's book, theEmotional Craft of Fictions,
the breakout novelist and Birdby bird, and Stephen King's on
writing.
Pretty much, if it's a craftbook and they make it, I
probably read it multiple timesand taught everyone who was open
to hear about writing, craftand fiction writing, because it
(43:24):
just it was a passion of mine.
I wanted to improve every dayand study every day and I do,
and practice and practice andbetter myself at writing.
And what that particular editordoesn't know is was I kind of
had a little bit of a litmustest for myself.
My current novel, the one that Isold recently.
(43:45):
It's currently called Hard Scam, but I don't know if the
editors will change the title.
If they do, I will update withthe current title, but it's kind
of like described.
It's like Outlander meets theNight Circus.
It's these magical blacktime-traveling families that
have had this feud that's kindof been gone, ongoing, um, and
(44:10):
basically the spell that gavethem their power has also cursed
them into this magical feud inthe time travel.
It just has really all thesereally cool elements of it and
stuff.
And what that editor doesn'tknow is because for my own
little personal litmus test,when I was workshopping that
(44:31):
story and I was sending it to mybeta readers, I sent a couple
chapters to that editor likeanonymously totally different
name just to see how she'drespond, and the response this
time was like wow, this isreally good, this is publishable
.
You know, you need to keepworking on this and I was like
my own little personal privatevictory.
And she had no idea it was me.
She had no idea it was the samewriter.
(44:52):
She probably doesn't evenremember, you know years ago,
how she told me I wasn't readyand I needed to work on my craft
.
But for me that was acelebration moment, um so like I
said I was writing.
Early on in my career, I wrote,like most professional writers,
a couple bad books.
We all have our books in thenightstand or on the hard drive.
(45:13):
That didn't really go anywherebecause we weren't ready yet.
Writing is a journey.
You need to constantly bepracticing and learning craft
and building your skills so whenthe moment comes, you're ready
to meet it.
But I did believe in myself.
Like I said, I'm getting alittle ahead of myself, I'm
sorry.
I'll get back to the originstory.
So I um had sent that um, notso great novel to an editor, and
(45:43):
you know her feedback wasworking in craft, and I worked
on it a little, but I stillwasn't there yet at that time.
But I totally believed inmyself, even though the belief
in myself shouldn't have beenthere yet.
So you know, though, I was asingle mom, though you know,
money wasn't like awesome at thetime, because I was just on the
(46:05):
heels of a divorce.
I wanted to support my dreamand my desire to be a writer and
my ambitions, so I got apublicist.
I decided I was going toself-publish this book this
terrible book after queryingthis terrible book
unsuccessfully terrible bookafter querying this terrible
(46:28):
book unsuccessfully.
So I and again, this is not thebook that I'm coming out with.
This isn't the book that sold.
This is earlier in my writingcareer.
So I queried this horrible bookand naturally everyone said no,
thank God.
They said no because I reallywouldn't want that to be that
book, to be my introduction tothe world, cause I think I'm way
better than that now and I'dtruly be embarrassed if that was
how you met me.
So I queried people.
(46:49):
They were like no, no, thankyou, no, no, no.
So then after that I um decidedwell, I'll self-publish it,
I'll do it myself.
I got the interior, interiorlaid out, formatting, cover,
designer, all this stuff, all ofthem.
Most of the people who didthese services for me were
aspiring as well.
(47:09):
So you know, some of theservices looked like they were
inspiring people to.
But shout out to theentrepreneurship.
You know that's a good spiritto have.
We all have to start somewhere.
It's how we learn and how wegrow.
So from that point, um, I putthis book in the universe.
(47:30):
I hired a publicist and sherepresented me for a very brief
time because my budget was verysmall.
But she told me she's like youknow, you can't really afford to
keep paying a publicist forthis, but if you keep, you know,
working on your writing or yourblog for different sites and
stuff, they'll have to have yourbio in the bottom and that'll
(47:53):
help promote your work becauseyou can link to your website and
then that links to your booksand stuff.
So I was like awesome andthat's what I did then I that
was how I originally startedwith news, magazines and stuff
like that.
Originally I would pitch toblogs or magazines and those
crickets.
People weren't really overlyinterested in just me as a
person.
(48:13):
I was a little nobody nobody,never heard of, but something I
learned from Tamika Newhouse.
For those of you who don't know, tamika Newhouse does the AAMBC
Literary Awards in Atlanta andI volunteered there for years
and would help her house.
Um, for those of you don't know, tameka newhouse does the aambc
literary awards in atlanta andI volunteered there for years
and would help her out.
Um ran her a writing staff forher earlier on, did everything
from packing up the gift bags toeventually working my way up to
(48:35):
being on her board.
And one thing I learned fromher was, you know, she always
had her name in the conversationwith bigger names, which is a
great promotional tool.
She does her awards every yearand it highlights great authors,
but in doing so, people alsolearn about her because she's,
you know, the one putting onthis event.
(48:57):
So then I thought, well, youknow, maybe that's a good idea.
So while I was therevolunteering, I'd be
interviewing the nominees andI'd be pitching these interviews
to Writers Digest, migsMagazine and all these different
publications.
And it helped Tamika becauseit's getting publicity for her
event.
Interested in just hearing fromme at that point in my career,
(49:25):
or interested in hearing frompeople like Nikki Giovanni and
hearing from these publishedwriters with bigger names than
mine.
So that helped me get myearliest interviews and then,
once I had a track record withWriters Digest and magazine and
Huffington Post and otherpublications, then I could get
interviews on my own.
I didn't have to just, you know, rely on the attendees and the
awards and stuff like that.
But doing that, like I said, andstarted putting the name out,
(49:49):
started promoting that reallyterrible book that I'm now so
ashamed of, that I try to buyevery existing cabbage and I
took it down.
So those of you that arecurious hopefully will never get
your hands on one because it'sembarrassing, but anyway, um.
So, like I said, so then I thatwas in the universe and through
interviewing you know, I madesome of the connections that led
(50:11):
me to get my book deal and mydeal with my agent and stuff
like that.
But it wasn't an overnight path.
You know, I went to Drexel andgot my MFA, continued to study
craft.
I'm one of the co-chairs of theDrexel MFA Alumni Association.
I've been a better beta readerand a sensitivity reader.
(50:33):
I beta read for Kimberly Jonesand Gilly Siegel's novel I'm Not
Dying With you Tonight.
They thanked me in the creditswhich is very sweet and they're
also, you know, in upcomingcraft chats, so we'll be hearing
from them, if you haven'talready heard from them.
Check out the episode.
Healy is in episode one and Kimis in the coming episode two not
(50:54):
episode two, but an upcomingepisode as well.
I should say and I I forgot tomention in my earlier recording
that I also did a lot ofinternships and mentorships, any
way that I could learn moreabout writing, about publishing
and, you know, try to networkand make connections.
So I was doing the WritersHouse Mentorship Program,
(51:18):
writers House Literary Agency.
I did their mentorship programbriefly.
I did the Tessera editorialmentorship.
I did the Breakthrough WritersBoot Camp.
Kate Brawning, an editor, gaveme a scholarship for that
(51:40):
program.
She liked my work and I didthat program as well.
And all of these differentprograms, from Drexel's
programming to these mentorshipsand internships, just helped
enrich me and help me grow as awriter, along with reading books
on craft and watching everyvideo and thing I could see.
And again, that's why I docraft chat, because I want to
(52:01):
share the knowledge that helpedme get where I am.
And now I will continue with mystory, thanks.
I've been a judge for theWriters' Digest annual
competition a couple of years ina row.
(52:21):
So for a couple of years, years, I've done that.
Um, I just worked all kinds ofjobs in the literary sphere now
and my book is coming out.
Um, one is coming out 2025, theHeart's Gambit book and again,
that name might change.
We'll find out.
If it does, I'll let you know.
And I have another book comingout in 2026 and so far the debut
(52:47):
process has been exciting um, alot of writing and vision.
Um, we haven't really announcedyet and I'm saying this and
giving the deets on the book, um, on video now, because it'll
already be announced by the timethis video launches, but right
now still secret, so you'resharing a secret with me.
But, yeah, so that was how myjourney began.
(53:12):
Um, again, always loved craft.
Once I discovered it, I fellmadly in love with it and I just
wanted to keep learning aboutwriting and practicing writing
and sharing the love of writingand literacy with others, which
is what led me to doing thecraft chats for Drexel.
Like I said, I'm a co-chair ofthe Drexel MFA alumni and, as
one of the presidents, of the.
(53:33):
Alumni Association.
You know I wanted to share thelove of craft with the alumni
and current students at Drexel,which I do with the alumni and
current students at Drexel,which I do.
A lot of the interviews you'llsee on here are interviews that
are taped with Drexel studentsin the audience and then
students and alumni and themasking all these questions.
Some of them are just separatefrom separate author interviews.
(53:55):
I do, but since most of mywriting for Writers Digest and
stuff centers around craftWriters Digest and stuff centers
around craft I kind of wantedto have a hub of craft knowledge
so that all of you can learnand benefit and enjoy the
industry insights and thepublishing professionals talking
about publishing and craftingwhat's hot.
Maybe it'll help you reach yourjourney and becoming a
(54:16):
published author faster than me,because when I got started I
didn't really clearly understandcraft, I didn't clearly
understand genres, I didn'tclearly understand what was hot
and you know that made myprocess take a little longer
because you have to account forthat learning curve.
So hopefully Craft ChatChronicles will help you guys
get all that stuff learned sothat you can reach your dream
(54:41):
and reach the goal of becoming apublished writer and perhaps
even a best-selling novelistsooner.
So that's why I started CraftChat.
That's who I am, and that wasmy writing journey.
Through the interviewing, I metDonnell Clayton, actually, and
she owns K Creative and ElectricPostcard.
(55:02):
And as I was interviewing herand we were talking about her
company, she was talking aboutshe's hired, how she hires
writers, and this, that third.
So then I was just like, hey,in an interview, shoot my shot.
So I did and I basically, youknow, told her I write, and she
was like oh.
I'm curious, so you know.
I asked her if I could send hersome.
She said she was curious toread it.
(55:22):
I sent it to her, her, shecalled me back.
She's like I love it, I want towork with you and the next
thing I know I'm signing toSusie Townsend at New Leaf
Literary to represent the bookand I'm off to the races.
So you know it's an IP project.
I will do another video at somepoint talking more in detail
(55:45):
into how IP works and all thatgood stuff.
But, like I said, so that washow it all really connected and
it all really started with thatbad book.
So I guess I can't hate the badbook, because had I not done
that horrible book and tried toput it out in the universe, I
never would have started doingother interviews.
Put it out in the universe, Inever would have started doing
other interviews, I never wouldhave had the interview with the
(56:06):
person who, you know, startedthe wheels motion to getting my
dreams of becoming atraditionally published author
to come to life.
And so I guess in that way, youknow, every step is a needed
step.
Every part of our journey is animportant part, but that's my
story.
Um, important part, but that'smy story.
(56:29):
Um, like and subscribe if youenjoyed this.
I appreciate you guys listeningto craft chat chronicles.
I also intend to have a lot ofother 2025 debut authors who
will be coming out around.
The time is me on to talk toyou about debut year and their
experiences in your publishingjourney and share some knowledge
of craft that helped them gettheir book deals.
So looking forward to sharingthat with you and I hope you
(56:51):
enjoy it.
I hope you learn a lot from it.
I'll chat with you again soon.
Speaker 1 (57:19):
Bye, JDMioco.
That's JDMiocom.
While you're there, join JD'smailing list for updates,
giveaways and more.
Welcome to Craft Chat Chronicles, the go-to podcast
for tips on craftingbest-selling fiction.
Here at Craft Chat Chronicles,we bring you expert interviews,
insights and tips on writing,publishing and marketing.
J.D. Myall (00:22):
Welcome to Season 1, episode 3 of Craft Chat
Chronicles.
Today, we'll be talking to awoman who was number one on the
New York Times bestseller list,that's author Ava Reid.
She'll give us tips on writinga best-selling dark academia
novel and discuss her writingand publishing journey, and a
(00:44):
lot more.
Stay tuned Things have beengoing good for you bestsellers
list.
Ava Reid (00:50):
Yeah, it's been a big surprise, honestly.
J.D. Myall (00:54):
Exciting.
How are you liking being apublished author?
Ava Reid (01:03):
It's good.
It's good it's more emotionallycomplex than I expected it to
be.
I think it's just like you know, with my two previous books
they didn't flop or anythinghorrible like that, but they
didn't get this kind of level ofattention.
So it's just hearing so manypeople's opinions and being
(01:26):
exposed to so many people'sopinions even if they're good
opinions it's just likeinformation overload to the
point where I'm like I need tojust stop looking at like any
tagged posts and stuff like thatbecause again, even if it's
positive, I'm like this is justmaking me feel too many things
okay.
J.D. Myall (01:44):
Okay, cool, you like in California.
I know you recently moved there.
Ava Reid (01:49):
I've been here since 2018, actually, yeah, but I'm
from New York, so very, verydifferent.
J.D. Myall (01:58):
Okay, so I'll dive in now.
What do you believe are theessential elements needed to
capture a reader's attention onthe first page?
Ava Reid (02:12):
I have a friend, victoria Lee, who when they this
was advice about a query but Ithink it kind of applies to a
first page too, but I think itkind of applies to a first page
too is you basically need aninteresting character in an
interesting world with aninteresting problem.
And I think that if you cankind of capture all of those
(02:35):
three things on the first pagewhich you know can be difficult,
but I think if you can captureall those three things, that's a
very effective opening.
J.D. Myall (02:44):
But I think if you can capture all those three
things, that's a very effectiveopening.
Ava Reid (02:54):
Did you have any like surprises during your publisher?
So so many surprises probablytoo many to count.
I think the biggest surprisewas just how long the process
ultimately takes.
I mean, I sold A Study inDrowning in early 2020, late
(03:15):
2020, early 2021.
And then it came out in fall of2023.
So it was definitely like avery long process of you know
getting through the edits andproduction and so many people
you know having their hands onthe book.
You know not just your editors,that the copy editors, but like
(03:36):
marketing and sales, and youknow getting all of that kind
kind of feedback.
It was, it was it's so involvedand it's so it takes so long,
which was I think I was preparedfor that a little bit, but I
wasn't fully prepared for thethe extent of it.
(03:57):
So how did the reality of beinga published author differ from
what you fantasized about itwhen you were a young girl, or
when you were Um, I mean, Ithink when I was younger, I mean
I'm like zillennial, like kindof right on that cusp, so like I
(04:18):
did grow up with the internet,but not at all the way that it
is now.
Um, so I thought of writingalways as like a pretty
anonymous thing.
I mean, I got my start on likefanfictionnet, writing like
warrior cats fan fiction, which,like you know, I'm just doing
that anonymously behind anaccount, um, but that's not
(04:39):
really like realistic.
You can't really be have thatlevel of anonymity as an author
anymore, I mean, unless you'relike Otessa Voschbeck.
Um, so I I really didn't knowwhen I was younger that it would
kind of there would be thislevel of of like scrutiny about
(05:01):
me, not just my works.
Um, like, I saw someone made awikipedia page for me the other
day.
Like, literally, my husbandcame in the room he was like, oh
no, you're not gonna like this.
And I was like what?
And he was like you have awikipedia page now and I'm like,
oh my god, um, with a bunch ofincorrect information.
Mind you, I don't know who putit together, but a bunch of
(05:22):
stuff is wrong.
So, yeah, I didn't anticipatehaving to be so present as a
person, in addition to just kindof sharing my work.
How does that feel?
I mean, I think it's adouble-edged sword, right, and I
(05:43):
think most authors willprobably say the same thing like
getting to connect directlywith readers can be really
really great and to just hearthat you're and know that your
work has touched people in allthese different ways.
And then obviously there's thedouble-edged sword of that,
(06:04):
which is people just having alot of access to you and kind of
demanding your opinions andyour takes and your identity to
kind of justify the things thatyou're writing about.
And I think, especially nowthat readers kind of want that
more than ever.
They want to know you know howyour identity kind of connects,
(06:25):
that more than ever they want toknow you know how your identity
kind of connects to your work.
And most people, I don't think,mean it in like a hostile way
or anything, but I think theimpact can be that it feels very
intrusive sometimes.
J.D. Myall (06:41):
I get it.
I think for most people it'swanting to see themselves
reflected, so they want to hearthat you know you identify with
this or that, so they can bondwith that.
But at the same time we allhave chapters of our life we
don't want read out loud.
Ava Reid (06:56):
Yeah, I yeah, and I think that again it comes a lot
of it comes from a good place,so I try not to be like
completely dismissive of it butat the same time it's like you
know, if I'm writing about likemental illness and abuse and
stuff, I think you can trustthat, like this is something
that I've been through withoutme having to elucidate all of
these, these details and it'ssomething that touches almost
(07:20):
all of us.
J.D. Myall (07:20):
To be honest with you, yeah, what is your process
for creating complex characters?
Ava Reid (07:28):
um, I so I'm like a thematic writer.
So the first thing that kind ofcomes to me for a book idea
isn't necessarily the what ofthe book but the why of the book
, if that makes sense.
So like, why do I want to tellthis story, what do I want to
communicate, what is kind of thecentral theme or central idea
(07:49):
that I want to explore?
And then I see everything fromeven you know the characters,
the prose styles, the plot asbeing reflective of that theme.
So it all kind of comes fromthat, you know, and the idea in
A Study in Drowning that Iwanted to explore was this idea
of stories and you know yourheroes failing you and what
(08:15):
makes a story true or real orresonant and who gets to tell
these stories and who isbelieved when they do so.
Then you know, the characterskind of all sprang from that and
they all kind of reflect thosethemes in a different way.
J.D. Myall (08:39):
I love that.
What do you think makes a goodprotagonist?
Ava Reid (08:48):
so, for me, what makes a good protagonist is being a
little bit like unhinged andweird.
Um, and I think anyone who'sread my books will kind of see
that that's the case.
Um, you know my face.
Some of my like favoriteprotagonists are, like I think I
literally have this in myInstagram bio like Mary Kat
Blackwood from we have AlwaysLived in the Castle.
(09:08):
I think she's such anincredible protagonist.
I love being in her head, likeshe's so strange and such an
interesting character to followand the way that she sees the
world is just so trippy andfascinating to follow.
And the way that she sees theworld is just like so trippy and
fascinating.
Um, and in a study and drowningeffie, the main character is a
(09:29):
very, very unreliable narrator.
Um, I mean, she literally, youknow, struggles with these
hallucinations, these delusions,um, and that's to me.
I know that a lot of peoplewon't agree, but like, those are
the most interesting charactersto me.
Kind of a hallmark of the gotGothic genre is having these
unreliable narrators and beingimmersed in the mind of someone
(09:51):
you can't necessarily fullytrust, and that's always really
interesting to me.
J.D. Myall (09:55):
I love that.
What other elements do youthink are essential to a good
Gothic novel?
Ava Reid (10:31):
no-transcript gothic renaissance but like to me, this
very baroque and detailed prosestyle is like essential to a
gothic novel, or at least agothic novel that I'm gonna
enjoy.
Um, I really do like theheavily stylized, like melodrama
of the gothic style and that'sthat feels essential to me love
(10:56):
that.
J.D. Myall (10:58):
What makes a good villain in your gothic novels?
Ava Reid (11:03):
I mean it's funny because gothic novels give the
gothic genre gives actually avery good kind of archetype of a
villain and usually it's kindof this mysterious and sinister
like master of the house.
That usually represents likekind of like the old ways and in
(11:23):
this you know tradition wherewe're talking about like the
erosion of aristocratic power.
He usually kind of representsthe like, the clinging to this
kind of old, outmoded way oflife.
Um, and I think that that iskind of that's there in both of
my of my Gothic novels.
The villains really representthat and I think that's maybe
(11:49):
not necessarily essential, butthat's kind of the classic
Gothic archetype of a villain.
J.D. Myall (11:58):
Tell me a little bit about your publishing journey.
I'm going to go back to crackto.
I'm jumping around journey.
Ava Reid (12:08):
I'm gonna go back to crack too.
I'm jumping around, um.
So I mean, I have wanted to bea writer, I think since I was
again like 11 years old, on thewarrior cats fan fiction forums,
um, doing my little role plays,but I didn't start like kind of
seriously working to getpublished until like 2018.
I just graduated college and Iwas just I was working at this
(12:29):
startup because I live inSilicon Valley.
I was working at this AIrobotics startup, which was very
interesting, and I was justwriting and writing and trying
to finish my first novel.
And then I got into thispitching contest like mentorship
program, which actually doesn'texist anymore, but when it did
it was like a pretty big dealand a lot of famous books came
(12:52):
out of it.
So I got in and I was mentoredby this amazing author and she
kind of like showed me the ropesand, you know, got my book in
front of agents and that's how Ifound my first agent, got my
first publishing deal in 2018.
And that part happened prettyquickly.
And then, you know, now it'slike six years later and we're
(13:17):
three novels in, so it'sdefinitely a protracted process,
but before I, you know, wrotewhat would become my debut.
I wrote so many other booksthat you know we'll never see
the light of day and I kind ofqueried them on and off but
(13:37):
never really.
I didn't.
I didn't really understand,like, what the querying process
was like and I basically justlike didn't really know what I
the querying process was likeand I basically just like didn't
really know what I was doing.
So that was never going to besuccessful.
J.D. Myall (13:48):
But it was kind of this mentorship program that I
was in that started, started itall well, what um advice would
you have for other writers whoare just now in the midst of the
querying process, and or whereyou were then?
Ava Reid (14:04):
um, I'm always like hesitant to give advice about
this because querying haschanged a lot since I last
queried again, like almost sixyears ago now, and I like the
kind of landscape is verydifferent.
But I'll refer back to myfriend Victoria's advice about
how your query needs to have aninteresting character in an
(14:25):
interesting world with aninteresting problem.
Another thing is definitely youhave to be like reading and
know what's selling in yourgenre.
Like I think a lot of agentssay that they get queries that
are just like your comp title islike Harry Potter and like
Blood Meridian and it's likethis is not like.
(14:47):
This is not what's beingpublished right now.
Like you need to be reading,you know new releases and
keeping up with what publishersare actually buying, um, and
instead of you know comic booksthat are from you know two
decades.
J.D. Myall (15:04):
What were your literary influences?
Ava Reid (15:07):
Oh, a lot.
I mean I draw a lot from theGothic genre.
I collect copies of we haveAlways Lived in the Castle by
Shirley Jackson.
I love all of her work so much.
The classic Gothic author islike Mary Shelley.
Gorman Gast is another bookthat's been a big influence on
(15:30):
me.
I also really love kind of thetradition of fabulism, like the
books of Karen Russell have beenreally.
I remember I picked up herfirst short story collection
from a used bookstore when I waslike 19.
And I'd been like on a kind oflike drought of inspiration in
(15:52):
both reading and writing and Ipicked up that book because the
title was awesome.
The title is St Lucy's Home forGirls Raised by Wolves and I
read it and it was kind of thebook where I was like, oh,
reading is fun and like style,like prose, style is just as
(16:15):
essential as content and I thinkthat that was the book that
kind of made me really thinkthat and care so much about
style, really think that andcare so much about about style.
So that and Kelly Link andHelen Oyeyemi are other authors
in that tradition who I really,really love and draw a lot from.
J.D. Myall (16:37):
So you mentioned a minute ago about how you know
people need to be aware ofwhat's selling.
From your perspective, what doyou think is hot right now?
What do you think is selling?
Ava Reid (16:47):
I mean I can only speak to the genres that I write
in, so you know SFF and YA, butI mean romanticy is the big
thing right now.
That's pretty much almostexclusively what I think SFF
publishers are interested inbuying, If not you know kind of
romantic, at least books with astrong romantic subplot, because
(17:09):
that's what BookTok wants toread, For better or for worse.
I think dark academia is a bigtrend right now.
I think we're gonna see a bigrenaissance of dystopia because
of the ballad of songbirds andsnakes and we're seeing a you
know kind of renewed interest inin that.
(17:30):
Um, yeah, I can't necessarilyspeak to other genres, but
that's, that's what I'm seeingand the genres that I write in
so you talked about romanticism.
J.D. Myall (17:40):
Do you have any advice for creating a good
romantic subplot or romance?
Ava Reid (17:49):
I don't know.
I, like all my books, do haveromance, but I've never really
considered myself to be like awriter of romance.
Like I remember when I wasrevising my first novel, which
which has a romantic subplot butthat's not really the main plot
of the book, and I was gettingfeedback from my editor about
(18:11):
kind of like strengthening theromantic subplot and I was like
I don't even know how to do this.
And I went to my friend, alisonSaft, and I was like, who
writes romance?
Who writes really, reallyamazing romance?
And I was like, how do I dothis?
And she was like, well, what islike the first?
She was like going to talk methrough it, like I was a small
child.
And she was like, so what isthe first moment when, like,
(18:34):
they realize they're attractedto each other?
And I was like I don't know,like I wasn't even thinking
about these things while writingUm, um I.
So, yeah, I'm not sure I havemuch good advice about that, but
I think that the best romancesto me are the ones where the
(18:55):
characters find something andthe other that they can't find
in anyone else and where theirkind of wounds are the same.
Yeah, I don't think this is myforte as an author, necessarily.
J.D. Myall (19:12):
That was really good , though I haven't heard that
before.
Do you have any tips for makingthe beginning of your story
exciting?
Ava Reid (19:33):
Keeping readers engaged.
Basically, yeah, um, again, Ifeel like I'm not the best
equipped to answer, just becauseI feel like every single book I
write, the feedback I get islike the opening is too slow and
we need to get to the actionsooner.
Um, yeah, I don't know.
I mean, I think that readerswant to feel like or I as a
(19:55):
reader want to feel like you'rekind of in competent hands and
that the author has kind of astrong vision and you can trust
that you're gonna, that they'regonna take you there.
If that makes sense, it does.
Books that I tend to loseinterest in are the ones where
(20:16):
it feels like the author is justkind of doing whatever is
easier for them um, having astrong vision, for you know what
they want for the book andbeing like in control of all
aspects of of their craft.
You know pro style characters.
(20:37):
You know plotting intention.
J.D. Myall (20:42):
How do you avoid the saggy middle?
Ava Reid (20:48):
I thought.
So I try.
I'm not really much of anoutliner at all, but I try to
follow the Save the Cat beatsheet, which is, I think, like a
resource that pretty much everyauthor loves and refers to a
lot, but it basically gives youall of these you know, kind of
plot beats to follow to makesure that you know you don't
(21:10):
lose tension and you keep yourreaders engaged, and I think
that's a super helpful resourcefor any author.
And, you know, obviously youcan deviate from that a bit, but
I think that's like a greatstarting point if you're just,
you know, starting to kind ofmap out the plot of your book.
J.D. Myall (21:29):
Love that.
Any advice for making the endcompelling?
Ava Reid (21:38):
and tying things up.
See, I am someone who actuallyis okay with endings that are a
bit open-ended and still havingquestions.
It's funny, my editor tried liketwo or three times to get me to
change the ending of A Study inDrowning because she thought it
was like too open-ended.
But I don't know, I've alwaysreally enjoyed endings where,
(22:02):
like you still have somelingering questions and it kind
of makes you want to like rereadthe book and like see if
there's you, you know, stuffthat you missed or stuff that
you're only going to get, youknow, in a second read through,
um, and you know, maybe considerthat you don't need to.
You know, wrap everything upneatly with a bow and and some
(22:25):
ambiguity is is okay again, aslong as you're kind of in
control of that, and that's anactive choice that you're making
, as opposed to just saying, oh,I'm going to leave this, you
know, not tied up, just becauseit's like easier and I don't
want to deal with it.
I love that, it makes sense.
(22:46):
It's just, my process is likeextremely chaotic, so I'm trying
my best to like not make itsound that way you're doing a
great job.
J.D. Myall (22:56):
How did you get the news that you made the
bestseller list and how did youcelebrate?
Ava Reid (23:02):
um, oh my gosh.
So I think, again, every writerexperience, every author
experiences this.
Like, I think, again, everywriter experience, every author
experiences this like stressful,tense week between your release
and when the bestseller listcomes out, which is, at
California time, it's 4 pm onWednesday.
(23:24):
So I was just a complete ballof stress like the entire week.
And it was horrible on Tuesdayor Tuesday and Wednesday because
, like, I'd heard from somepeople that like, oh, publishers
get the list ahead of time, soyou know, ahead of time, um, and
then my editor, my agent, waslike no, that's not true.
And I was like wow, but likewhat, if it is?
And then, like no one's tellingme because I didn't make the
(23:45):
list, all this was.
It was like it was actuallyhorrible.
I was so stressed out, um, andthen on Wednesday, again, I was
just a ball of stress the entiretime, um, and I told my agent
to, because New York Timessubscribers do get the list sent
to them like, just, you know anhour, usually a couple hours,
ahead of time, um, and I told myagent to just call me um, if,
(24:12):
if it happened, and I was justlike sitting there right at this
desk.
I was just like sitting there,like literally wait, like
waiting as the time ticked down,waiting, waiting, waiting for
the call.
Um, and she called me and she Iwas like did it, did it happen?
And she was like yeah, and shewas like it's, it's number one.
Um, yeah, and I I just likeburst into tears, I think, um,
(24:37):
and it was just amazing to getthe news from my agent too,
because she's like, she's likethe most important person in my
kind of publishing career andlike we've been together forever
and she's just so supportiveand I love her so much so it
just felt really special to getthe news from her specifically.
Yeah, uh, sarah Landis atSterling Lord.
(24:57):
Um, I love her so much.
If anyone is like looking forsomeone to query, 100,000
percent recommend her.
I think anyone would be solucky to be represented by her.
Um, and so much of my, like youknow, success as an author is
owed to her.
J.D. Myall (25:13):
Um, yeah, what makes that author?
Agent or any author agentrelationship work from your
perspective I think so, mostpeople, I think.
Ava Reid (25:25):
When they're queer, understandably they focus on,
you know, just the sale and theyjust want their book to sell,
which again, very reasonable.
Reasonable request from an agentis sell my book.
But what's just as important ishaving that support after the
sale.
And Sarah is actually my secondagent and my first agent was
the one who got me my book deal,but then she was just kind of
(25:48):
like ghosted me basically aftershe sold it, like she was just
not interested in kind ofhelping me deal with everything
that came after.
And like that is the reallyimportant part is your agent,
you know, kind of holding yourhand through all this and being
able to tell you, okay, this isa normal part of the process, or
(26:09):
like no, your publisher is likescrewing you over.
We need to like talk to thembecause you know, again, this
happens a lot.
As an author, you basically haveno bargaining power with your
publisher, which is very cool.
So your agent is the one who'sbasically your advocate to your
publisher and you know they'rethe person who kind of has their
(26:34):
finger on the button tellingyou you know, my agent is always
the one that I will send apitch to or send you know parts
of what the book I'm working onand be like.
Do you think this is somethingI should pursue?
Like what do you?
Do you think this is the rightstep for my career?
Do you think that this willwork in the market?
So she's the one who I kind oftrust on that and just like
(26:56):
genuine emotional support.
She's talking me off the ledgelike more times than I can count
.
When you know just stuff inpublishing is it just really
gets to you.
So yeah, I think that, excuseme me, your agent is like 100%
the most important person um inyour publishing journey that's
(27:18):
awesome.
J.D. Myall (27:19):
A lot of writers complain about not feeling like
they've had um a lot of supportin the marketing and stuff side.
Yeah, you experienced that.
Or were all of your books verywell marketed?
Ava Reid (27:30):
Oh my God, where to even begin.
This is like oh my gosh.
So I don't know how much ofthis you want to use but for a
study and drowning.
You know, I think the biggestsingle indicator of how much
marketing support you'll get foryour book is usually the
(27:51):
advance amount.
I mean, that's quite literallyyour publisher communicating to
you how much they think yourbook is worth.
And based on the advance amountI got for A Study in Drowning
and I sold A Study in Drowningbefore my first book had even
come out so I had no salesrecord.
So you know I didn't expect tobe like, you know, giant, you
know splashy, auction, whatever.
(28:11):
And based on the advance amount,you know I knew that it would
be kind of a mid list title.
I knew it wasn't going to bethe lead title for the season or
whatever.
A lead title is just like theone book per publishing season
that the publisher tends tofocus the most on and make the
biggest deal about.
So I knew that that wasn't, youknow, going to be a study of
drowning and that it was kind ofthis weird book.
(28:33):
It wasn't like super highconcept.
So I did know that going in,but I was still pretty surprised
by how, let's just say, handsoff my publisher was.
I mean, they told me that as acost-cutting measure, they were
(28:54):
not doing physical arcs, whichare just arcs.
There's advanced copies of thebook that you send out to, you
know, readers and reviewers tobuild hype and suspense, and
that's one of the most importantmarketing tools for a book.
And they were just like we'renot doing that.
So I just didn't have those andthey didn't run.
(29:16):
They ran like one paid ad, Ithink, and like did like one
Goodreads giveaway, like theweek of release for like five
copies.
So I, you know, I was keepingtrack of kind of these early
indicators, you know, amazonranking, barnes Noble ranking
social media statistics, and Iended up sending over to Harper
(29:41):
just a document with all ofthese early indicators and I was
like hey, I think that peopleare really interested in this
and like maybe you should takethat into account.
That was brilliant by the way.
Yeah, and it they did end upraising the marketing budget for
the book.
I'm not sure by how much, butit did.
It did get them to pay a littlemore attention again.
(30:03):
I don't think that's somethingauthors should have to do
because, like, the whole pointof traditional publishing is
that your publisher is supposedto take care of all of that.
Um, but again, it's like thisera of social media is a
double-edged sword, because youactually can, you know?
J.D. Myall (30:21):
you can see in real time what's happening, and
because you can.
Ava Reid (30:26):
You know, despite the capricious nature of the
algorithm and stuff, you canmove the needle on your own as
an author, and that was likesomething that was really
essential to, I think, a studyon drowning success.
I mean, this was kind ofdefinitionally like a word of
mouth kind of success, wherepeople just read it and then
(30:50):
they told people that they likedit.
You know, it didn't have thisgiant marketing campaign behind
it, it didn't even have physicalarcs, um, but I think it just.
I mean, it's a testament tojust the power of readers.
Um, and it's been kind ofamazing for this to be.
The book that's been sosuccessful is the one that was,
(31:16):
you know, a word of mouthsuccess, the one that kind of no
one in my publisher expected toto be big, that I didn't
necessarily expect to be big.
Um, I will never take that forgranted and I'll never not feel
grateful that the book ended upresonating with so many people
who just wanted to talk about it.
J.D. Myall (31:38):
Um, that's exciting, funny.
You know good experience.
Um purely selfish questionCause I just sold a book.
What?
Ava Reid (31:49):
Oh my God, congratulations.
That's amazing.
What's your debut?
J.D. Myall (31:53):
Um, it's a YA fantasy romancy book.
It's these time travelingpeople.
It's filled as, like the nightcircus meets outlander.
Ava Reid (32:03):
Ooh, that's so cool.
What Um?
So that's amazing.
Congratulations.
J.D. Myall (32:09):
So what can I expect ?
What's debut year look like?
Ava Reid (32:15):
I don't know.
Do you know when it's releasingit?
J.D. Myall (32:17):
was a two-bit deal, so one is 2025 and one is 2026.
Ava Reid (32:22):
Okay, so you've got some time.
Yeah, that's awesome.
Sorry, what was your question?
I got distracted.
What's?
J.D. Myall (32:28):
debut year like life .
What can I expect?
Where the challenges, thepitfalls.
Ava Reid (32:34):
I think one of the biggest pitfalls that kind of
really gets people is just thecomparison with other books and
other debuts, and like that cankind of be like the harbinger of
doom for a lot of people isjust this constant need to
compare to other people and itis really hard to not view other
(32:57):
authors as your competitionbecause like in some sense, this
is sort of a zero-sum game.
You know, if someone else getsthat book deal, it means that
you don't get that book deal.
So that, I think, is reallysomething that I would recommend
and it's inevitable.
You'll feel those emotionsinevitably.
(33:19):
But I think the most importantthing is to just kind of find
your little group and yourpeople, people that you trust,
people who are going throughsimilar things.
Having those friends and thoseconnections was so essential for
me and just like keeping mysanity during debut year and
also it's not everything.
(33:39):
I mean my debut was fine, itwas, it did okay.
I mean it wasn't like again,this big slaggy thing is
studying.
Drowning is my third book, soit's definite.
And I have so many friends whoare on you know their fourth,
fifth, sixth, seventh books, andthat was the one that popped
off Becca Ross, who's beenwriting like I've loved her
(34:02):
books forever.
She's just been consistentlyputting out just amazing,
amazing books and I feel likeshe's finally getting, you know,
getting recognition for it,which is awesome, and this is
her seventh book.
So, yeah, just remember thatit's not everything and it's not
like your one chance and if youblow that, it's like your
(34:24):
career is over.
That's definitely definitelynot true, even though that
narrative is like very heavilypushed um.
J.D. Myall (34:32):
But yeah, that's encouraging.
Thank you, um.
What message would you like togive?
Um, just in general, like anyclosing thoughts for readers,
for fans, for aspiring readers,for anybody um, I've always.
Ava Reid (34:50):
I mean, I think all writing advice at this point is
kind of a cliche um, which isfine, but I think my kind of
favorite piece of writing advice, or the one that resonates with
me the most, is just to writethe story that only you can
write and the one that feels themost real and true and honest
(35:17):
to you, something that you'reproud of, because this is a
really really emotionally taxingexperience, that it's a really
tough industry and you're gonnahave to fight really hard for
your book and for your visionand you're gonna spend years and
years working on this book.
And you're going to have tofight really hard for your book
and for your vision and you'regoing to spend years and years
working on this book and you'regoing to have to again defend it
(35:40):
to people and deal withcriticism.
So if it's not truly like aproject from your heart, I think
you're going to find that verydifficult.
And I think the difficultmoments of publishing all the
many, many times where it's justlike I wanted to give up it was
that idea of my book issomething that was really
(36:02):
important to me.
That kind of kept me going.
What are you working on now?
What are you working on now?
I actually just got my uh lineedits for my next YA project, um
, which is coming out in 2025 Ibelieve in the winter of 2025,
um, so I will be working on thatexciting.
J.D. Myall (36:28):
Where can people connect with you?
Ava Reid (36:38):
So mostly on Instagram .
It's just at Ava S Reid.
I do have a TikTok.
I'm really bad about using it.
It's also at Ava S Reid.
I'm trying to make a concertedeffort in 2024 to post on that
more regularly.
But my main is instagram and Ialso have a terribly, terribly
outdated author website, butthat's also avasreadcom.
Don't be like me if you're anauthor, update your author
(37:00):
website regularly well.
J.D. Myall (37:04):
you were a joy to talk to in interview and
interview, and I wish youcontinued success.
You don't need my little wishes, though You're already flying.
Ava Reid (37:11):
No, I mean, I appreciate it.
That's another thing about thisindustry is things can change
very, very quickly.
Perfect.
J.D. Myall (37:18):
Thank you so much.
I appreciate your time, Iappreciate your patience.
Ava Reid (37:23):
Of course, this is great.
I hope you're feeling okay.
You're a doctor's appointment.
J.D. Myall (37:27):
I got hit by a car a lot that's awful.
Ava Reid (37:31):
I hope you feel better soon, jesus it's like
everything happens at once.
J.D. Myall (37:35):
First I got like the book deal and I was excited
because that's been a goalforever.
So I was like, yes, a dreamcome true.
They got hit by a car likeliterally.
Ava Reid (37:43):
I'm so sorry for laughing, but that's like it.
J.D. Myall (37:45):
like, what is fate doing?
Ava Reid (37:46):
Oh yeah, Well, that's going to be a great story.
You know, when you're doinginterviews like this and people
ask you like what was your likepublishing experience like, and
you're like, well, I got my bookdeal.
Then I got hit by a car, butagain, thank you so much and you
have a wonderful day.
J.D. Myall (38:04):
I appreciate you.
Ava Reid (38:06):
Of course you too Feel better.
J.D. Myall (38:10):
Thank, of course you too Feel better.
Thank you Bye.
Nice meeting you.
I hope you enjoyed our chatwith Ava Reid today.
You can find Ava's bookswherever books are sold.
And now, for those of you whoare curious, I figured I'd end
episode three by giving you alittle bit of background and
history on myself and mypublishing journey.
Hope you enjoy.
(38:33):
Okay, so my publishing journey.
My publishing journey was kindof like a twisty turny one.
I always loved to read my entirelife.
I was the odd kid that wouldread a 300-page book a day.
I loved really all kinds ofbooks.
(38:58):
One of my favorite books wasKindred by Octavia Butler.
I used to read a lot of BCAndrews, stephen King, anne Rice
when I was really young.
I liked books like Will ofThunder.
(39:19):
Hear my Cry.
I was obsessed with theOutsider.
At one point when I was young,I think I read that book like 32
times and I memorized the firstpage.
When I stepped out into thebright sunlight, in the darkness
of the movie house, I had onlytwo things on my mind Paul
Newman and a ride home.
I could go on and on, but Ijust further embarrassed myself.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
so I was always a book nerd always loved writing.
J.D. Myall (39:40):
Um novel was really bad but oddly, like the very
first time I attempted to writea novel, a lot of the plot
elements had were similar to themovie Soul Flute, which was
(40:03):
really odd because I was superyoung at the time and I was just
writing and being creative andI went to the movie and I saw it
and I was like wow the time andI was just writing and being
creative and I was the movie andI saw it and I was like wow,
somebody did that already.
They did it so much better thanmy little young attempt to do
this.
Um, then I was an army brat, soI moved around a lot and, again,
(40:25):
books were my best friend.
I was raised as an only child,um, my brother wasn't born until
years later and I have a sister, but we weren't raised in the
same home.
We have different mothers so Ididn't meet her until way later.
Um, so yeah, I was an army brat.
(40:46):
I loved to read, I loved books.
It was a little odd and quirkyStill a little odd and a little
quirky, and I just always read,always wrote.
I decided I wanted to attempt todo it professionally, pretty
much after I got divorced.
I was a single mom with kids,two of whom are autistic and on
(41:07):
the spectrum, kids um, two ofwhom are autistic and on the
spectrum, um, four kids, so four, four kids and was just really
trying to process a lot of whatI've been through and just
trying to get back in touch withmy creative side and my writing
.
I did photography and stuff too, so I was just really trying to
(41:27):
reconnect with the parts ofmyself that I lost during that
toxic and abusive relationshipand got back into writing again,
and I was, you know, prettystrong at poetry.
My plots would fall apart in alonger narrative.
Short stories and actual novelsare very different.
(41:56):
I didn't know anything aboutwriting craft, but I definitely
had a lot of belief in myself,even though I didn't have the
ability to back it up yet.
So I sent it to the book I'vewritten to be professionally
edited.
This time it's like, oh, I'mreally taking this seriously.
Now I'm gonna get an editor,I'm gonna do the things I think
professional writers should do.
(42:16):
And this editor was basicallylike um, she was a really good
lady.
She could have just took mymoney even though the project
was nowhere near ready for that.
But she was like sweetie, um,you need to learn story craft,
you know, you need to get betterat plotting.
Um, you know, and she was right, I needed beta readers to look
(42:37):
at it to help me identify thethings that were working, the
things that were not.
It didn't make sense to pay.
For example, it didn't makesense to pay for edits on parts
of a novel that should be cutbecause they weren't serving the
story.
So you know.
But she put me on to learningabout craft and recommended some
craft books and I absolutelyadore and love craft from like
(43:02):
Donald's Donald Moss's book, theEmotional Craft of Fictions,
the breakout novelist and Birdby bird, and Stephen King's on
writing.
Pretty much, if it's a craftbook and they make it, I
probably read it multiple timesand taught everyone who was open
to hear about writing, craftand fiction writing, because it
(43:24):
just it was a passion of mine.
I wanted to improve every dayand study every day and I do,
and practice and practice andbetter myself at writing.
And what that particular editordoesn't know is was I kind of
had a little bit of a litmustest for myself.
My current novel, the one that Isold recently.
(43:45):
It's currently called Hard Scam, but I don't know if the
editors will change the title.
If they do, I will update withthe current title, but it's kind
of like described.
It's like Outlander meets theNight Circus.
It's these magical blacktime-traveling families that
have had this feud that's kindof been gone, ongoing, um, and
(44:10):
basically the spell that gavethem their power has also cursed
them into this magical feud inthe time travel.
It just has really all thesereally cool elements of it and
stuff.
And what that editor doesn'tknow is because for my own
little personal litmus test,when I was workshopping that
(44:31):
story and I was sending it to mybeta readers, I sent a couple
chapters to that editor likeanonymously totally different
name just to see how she'drespond, and the response this
time was like wow, this isreally good, this is publishable
.
You know, you need to keepworking on this and I was like
my own little personal privatevictory.
And she had no idea it was me.
She had no idea it was the samewriter.
(44:52):
She probably doesn't evenremember, you know years ago,
how she told me I wasn't readyand I needed to work on my craft
.
But for me that was acelebration moment, um so like I
said I was writing.
Early on in my career, I wrote,like most professional writers,
a couple bad books.
We all have our books in thenightstand or on the hard drive.
(45:13):
That didn't really go anywherebecause we weren't ready yet.
Writing is a journey.
You need to constantly bepracticing and learning craft
and building your skills so whenthe moment comes, you're ready
to meet it.
But I did believe in myself.
Like I said, I'm getting alittle ahead of myself, I'm
sorry.
I'll get back to the originstory.
So I um had sent that um, notso great novel to an editor, and
(45:43):
you know her feedback wasworking in craft, and I worked
on it a little, but I stillwasn't there yet at that time.
But I totally believed inmyself, even though the belief
in myself shouldn't have beenthere yet.
So you know, though, I was asingle mom, though you know,
money wasn't like awesome at thetime, because I was just on the
(46:05):
heels of a divorce.
I wanted to support my dreamand my desire to be a writer and
my ambitions, so I got apublicist.
I decided I was going toself-publish this book this
terrible book after queryingthis terrible book
unsuccessfully terrible bookafter querying this terrible
(46:28):
book unsuccessfully.
So I and again, this is not thebook that I'm coming out with.
This isn't the book that sold.
This is earlier in my writingcareer.
So I queried this horrible bookand naturally everyone said no,
thank God.
They said no because I reallywouldn't want that to be that
book, to be my introduction tothe world, cause I think I'm way
better than that now and I'dtruly be embarrassed if that was
how you met me.
So I queried people.
(46:49):
They were like no, no, thankyou, no, no, no.
So then after that I um decidedwell, I'll self-publish it,
I'll do it myself.
I got the interior, interiorlaid out, formatting, cover,
designer, all this stuff, all ofthem.
Most of the people who didthese services for me were
aspiring as well.
(47:09):
So you know, some of theservices looked like they were
inspiring people to.
But shout out to theentrepreneurship.
You know that's a good spiritto have.
We all have to start somewhere.
It's how we learn and how wegrow.
So from that point, um, I putthis book in the universe.
(47:30):
I hired a publicist and sherepresented me for a very brief
time because my budget was verysmall.
But she told me she's like youknow, you can't really afford to
keep paying a publicist forthis, but if you keep, you know,
working on your writing or yourblog for different sites and
stuff, they'll have to have yourbio in the bottom and that'll
(47:53):
help promote your work becauseyou can link to your website and
then that links to your booksand stuff.
So I was like awesome andthat's what I did then I that
was how I originally startedwith news, magazines and stuff
like that.
Originally I would pitch toblogs or magazines and those
crickets.
People weren't really overlyinterested in just me as a
person.
(48:13):
I was a little nobody nobody,never heard of, but something I
learned from Tamika Newhouse.
For those of you who don't know, tamika Newhouse does the AAMBC
Literary Awards in Atlanta andI volunteered there for years
and would help her house.
Um, for those of you don't know, tameka newhouse does the aambc
literary awards in atlanta andI volunteered there for years
and would help her out.
Um ran her a writing staff forher earlier on, did everything
from packing up the gift bags toeventually working my way up to
(48:35):
being on her board.
And one thing I learned fromher was, you know, she always
had her name in the conversationwith bigger names, which is a
great promotional tool.
She does her awards every yearand it highlights great authors,
but in doing so, people alsolearn about her because she's,
you know, the one putting onthis event.
(48:57):
So then I thought, well, youknow, maybe that's a good idea.
So while I was therevolunteering, I'd be
interviewing the nominees andI'd be pitching these interviews
to Writers Digest, migsMagazine and all these different
publications.
And it helped Tamika becauseit's getting publicity for her
event.
Interested in just hearing fromme at that point in my career,
(49:25):
or interested in hearing frompeople like Nikki Giovanni and
hearing from these publishedwriters with bigger names than
mine.
So that helped me get myearliest interviews and then,
once I had a track record withWriters Digest and magazine and
Huffington Post and otherpublications, then I could get
interviews on my own.
I didn't have to just, you know, rely on the attendees and the
awards and stuff like that.
But doing that, like I said, andstarted putting the name out,
(49:49):
started promoting that reallyterrible book that I'm now so
ashamed of, that I try to buyevery existing cabbage and I
took it down.
So those of you that arecurious hopefully will never get
your hands on one because it'sembarrassing, but anyway, um.
So, like I said, so then I thatwas in the universe and through
interviewing you know, I madesome of the connections that led
(50:11):
me to get my book deal and mydeal with my agent and stuff
like that.
But it wasn't an overnight path.
You know, I went to Drexel andgot my MFA, continued to study
craft.
I'm one of the co-chairs of theDrexel MFA Alumni Association.
I've been a better beta readerand a sensitivity reader.
(50:33):
I beta read for Kimberly Jonesand Gilly Siegel's novel I'm Not
Dying With you Tonight.
They thanked me in the creditswhich is very sweet and they're
also, you know, in upcomingcraft chats, so we'll be hearing
from them, if you haven'talready heard from them.
Check out the episode.
Healy is in episode one and Kimis in the coming episode two not
(50:54):
episode two, but an upcomingepisode as well.
I should say and I I forgot tomention in my earlier recording
that I also did a lot ofinternships and mentorships, any
way that I could learn moreabout writing, about publishing
and, you know, try to networkand make connections.
So I was doing the WritersHouse Mentorship Program,
(51:18):
writers House Literary Agency.
I did their mentorship programbriefly.
I did the Tessera editorialmentorship.
I did the Breakthrough WritersBoot Camp.
Kate Brawning, an editor, gaveme a scholarship for that
(51:40):
program.
She liked my work and I didthat program as well.
And all of these differentprograms, from Drexel's
programming to these mentorshipsand internships, just helped
enrich me and help me grow as awriter, along with reading books
on craft and watching everyvideo and thing I could see.
And again, that's why I docraft chat, because I want to
(52:01):
share the knowledge that helpedme get where I am.
And now I will continue with mystory, thanks.
I've been a judge for theWriters' Digest annual
competition a couple of years ina row.
(52:21):
So for a couple of years, years, I've done that.
Um, I just worked all kinds ofjobs in the literary sphere now
and my book is coming out.
Um, one is coming out 2025, theHeart's Gambit book and again,
that name might change.
We'll find out.
If it does, I'll let you know.
And I have another book comingout in 2026 and so far the debut
(52:47):
process has been exciting um, alot of writing and vision.
Um, we haven't really announcedyet and I'm saying this and
giving the deets on the book, um, on video now, because it'll
already be announced by the timethis video launches, but right
now still secret, so you'resharing a secret with me.
But, yeah, so that was how myjourney began.
(53:12):
Um, again, always loved craft.
Once I discovered it, I fellmadly in love with it and I just
wanted to keep learning aboutwriting and practicing writing
and sharing the love of writingand literacy with others, which
is what led me to doing thecraft chats for Drexel.
Like I said, I'm a co-chair ofthe Drexel MFA alumni and, as
one of the presidents, of the.
(53:33):
Alumni Association.
You know I wanted to share thelove of craft with the alumni
and current students at Drexel,which I do with the alumni and
current students at Drexel,which I do.
A lot of the interviews you'llsee on here are interviews that
are taped with Drexel studentsin the audience and then
students and alumni and themasking all these questions.
Some of them are just separatefrom separate author interviews.
(53:55):
I do, but since most of mywriting for Writers Digest and
stuff centers around craftWriters Digest and stuff centers
around craft I kind of wantedto have a hub of craft knowledge
so that all of you can learnand benefit and enjoy the
industry insights and thepublishing professionals talking
about publishing and craftingwhat's hot.
Maybe it'll help you reach yourjourney and becoming a
(54:16):
published author faster than me,because when I got started I
didn't really clearly understandcraft, I didn't clearly
understand genres, I didn'tclearly understand what was hot
and you know that made myprocess take a little longer
because you have to account forthat learning curve.
So hopefully Craft ChatChronicles will help you guys
get all that stuff learned sothat you can reach your dream
(54:41):
and reach the goal of becoming apublished writer and perhaps
even a best-selling novelistsooner.
So that's why I started CraftChat.
That's who I am, and that wasmy writing journey.
Through the interviewing, I metDonnell Clayton, actually, and
she owns K Creative and ElectricPostcard.
(55:02):
And as I was interviewing herand we were talking about her
company, she was talking aboutshe's hired, how she hires
writers, and this, that third.
So then I was just like, hey,in an interview, shoot my shot.
So I did and I basically, youknow, told her I write, and she
was like oh.
I'm curious, so you know.
I asked her if I could send hersome.
She said she was curious toread it.
(55:22):
I sent it to her, her, shecalled me back.
She's like I love it, I want towork with you and the next
thing I know I'm signing toSusie Townsend at New Leaf
Literary to represent the bookand I'm off to the races.
So you know it's an IP project.
I will do another video at somepoint talking more in detail
(55:45):
into how IP works and all thatgood stuff.
But, like I said, so that washow it all really connected and
it all really started with thatbad book.
So I guess I can't hate the badbook, because had I not done
that horrible book and tried toput it out in the universe, I
never would have started doingother interviews.
Put it out in the universe, Inever would have started doing
other interviews, I never wouldhave had the interview with the
(56:06):
person who, you know, startedthe wheels motion to getting my
dreams of becoming atraditionally published author
to come to life.
And so I guess in that way, youknow, every step is a needed
step.
Every part of our journey is animportant part, but that's my
story.
Um, important part, but that'smy story.
(56:29):
Um, like and subscribe if youenjoyed this.
I appreciate you guys listeningto craft chat chronicles.
I also intend to have a lot ofother 2025 debut authors who
will be coming out around.
The time is me on to talk toyou about debut year and their
experiences in your publishingjourney and share some knowledge
of craft that helped them gettheir book deals.
So looking forward to sharingthat with you and I hope you
(56:51):
enjoy it.
I hope you learn a lot from it.
I'll chat with you again soon.
Speaker 1 (57:19):
Bye, JDMioco.
That's JDMiocom.
While you're there, join JD'smailing list for updates,
giveaways and more.
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