Ever wondered how fan fiction could pave the way to a bestselling author career? Tune into this inspiring double episode of Craft Chat Chronicles as we sit down with the multifaceted Denny S. Bryce, who transitioned from running a PR and marketing firm to becoming a celebrated author and faculty member at Drexel University. Denny takes us through her early days writing "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" fan fiction, her journey to finding an agent, and the invaluable lessons she imparts to her MFA students about visibility and branding. Whether you're an aspiring author or a seasoned writer, Denny’s insights and experiences offer a wealth of knowledge to fuel your own literary aspirations.
Struggling with sagging middles or crafting that perfect ending? This episode covers those challenges and more. We break down the crucial differences between nonfiction and fiction proposals, shedding light on why debut fiction writers typically need a completed manuscript before pitching. Get the lowdown on the benefits of MFA programs, including the critique and workshopping process, and the importance of diverse feedback. With practical advice on what makes a manuscript’s first-page pop, this segment is a treasure trove of actionable tips for writers at every stage.
Finally, join us as literary agent Eric Smith shares his expertise on high-concept romances and market trends. From intentional world-building to understanding your target audience, this segment is packed with essential advice for avoiding common pitfalls new writers face. Hear Smith’s personal stories of perseverance, along with recommendations for valuable resources to help you navigate your writing journey. Plus, discover the unique opportunities within MFA programs and the challenges of maintaining critique partnerships post-graduation. This episode promises to be an enriching experience for anyone passionate about the craft of writing.
Keywords:
fan fiction, bestselling author, Denny S. Bryce, literary agent, interview, Eric Smith, Craft Chat Chronicles, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, writing journey, PR to published, MFA programs, manuscript tips, visibility, writing tips, writing life, branding, fiction proposals, critique process, high-concept, romance, world-building, market trends, writing advice, aspiring authors, literary success, marketing, publishing
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to Craft Chat Chronicles, the go-to podcast
for tips on craftingbest-selling fiction.
At Craft Chat Chronicles, webring you expert interviews,
insights and tips on writing,publishing and marketing.
Join the conversation andembark on a new chapter in your
writing journey.
Join the conversation andembark on a new chapter in your
(00:25):
writing journey.
For workshops, show notes andmore information, visit
jdmayalcom.
J.D. Myall (00:34):
That's jdmayalcom On today's double episode of Craft
Chat Chronicles.
We'll have a brief chat withauthor Denny S Bryce, author of
titles like Can't we Be Friends,the Other Princess, wild Women
in the Blues and many more.
Denny will talk about herwriting and publishing journey.
She'll speak about being amember of Drexel's faculty and a
(00:55):
little bit about the MFAprocess, author marketing, and
then she'll give you some brieffacts on her novel Can't we Be
Friends.
And then after that, we'll gointo a deeper dive of
(01:28):
demystifying the MFA process andtalking about the thesis packet
and writing, craft andpublishing and market trends
with author and agent.
Denny S. Bryce (01:31):
Eric Smith, better known as Eric Smith Rocks
.
Stay tuned, you're in for agreat show.
How are you today?
Welcome, denny, I am fantastic.
How are you doing today?
J.D. Myall (01:36):
I'm doing well.
I'm doing well.
Can you tell everybody a littlebit about your publishing
journey and how you came toDrexel and all that good stuff?
Denny S. Bryce (01:49):
I certainly can, because I love talking about
myself.
Well, I'll say this because itis a long journey.
I started writing for fun whenI was running my PR and
marketing firm and that wasaround the turn of the century,
around 2000.
And I was a big fan of a TVshow, a TV show by the name of
(02:14):
Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
So when I came home aftertraveling or doing whatever I
did with my marketing and PR dayjob or day company, I would
write fan fiction and I was abig fan of the show, as I
mentioned, and I just got intoit.
And then one of the writersbecause we all wrote online with
(02:38):
you know mysterious names, youknow pen names and what have you
.
But one of the writers was agal who was in an organization
called Romance Writers ofAmerica and she suggested to me
that I join her on one of heryou know annual conferences.
And I did, had a great timehung out with writers there and
(03:03):
then started hanging out withwriters in my backyard.
At the time I was living inWashington DC.
Now I live in Savannah, but Ijoined some chapters, some
writing groups and what have you.
But I really wasn't committed towriting professionally, to
writing professionally because Ihad a big company to run and I
(03:26):
was busy, busy, busy.
But then I got obsessed withwriting and I wanted to do it
better, I wanted to do it moreand I had an opportunity to
(03:47):
enter a bunch of contests and Istarted winning contests and
that sort of gave me a littlebit of confidence and from there
I found an agent in 2016.
So you see, I spent a lot ofyears, you know, then in 2000,
and I think it was the yearafter I got an agent, I decided
that I wanted to write, I wantedto be a full-time author.
So I put the whole both my feetin the pond, so to speak, and
(04:11):
retired from the world offull-time marketing and PR so
that I had more time to write.
And that's when I sold my firstbook in 2019.
It was called.
It is called over there there'sa poster called Wild Women in
(04:33):
the Blues.
Then I went from there toseveral other books and now next
Tuesday I have another bookcoming out.
But as part of that journey Ialso had met Anne Garvin, of
several years in there.
Someplace.
She was teaching something inPhilly.
I got to hang out with her andthat group that was there.
(04:56):
That included Know Me, eve.
That's all copywriters.
Is that what you're referringto?
Oh, absolutely and so.
But this is when I waspre-published.
I was still just sort of likejust traveling around the globe
trying to find writing classesand what have you, and that
relationship was just soimportant because I kept track
(05:21):
of both of these women over theyears and then, when the
opportunity came for me to joinTall Poppies, I also got
involved with working with Nomiand Drexel University.
I've been working with Drexel,I'd say, for three years
(05:41):
approximately, maybe a littlelonger, and it's been a very
rewarding experience and I'mlooking forward to continuing to
teach the class and also do thecoaching.
I love interacting one on onewith MFA students.
It's just really a joyfulopportunity to work with young
(06:05):
writers, and age is not what I'mtalking about, it's just you
know where you are in thejourney, so to speak.
J.D. Myall (06:13):
So, with your history in marketing, when you
look at your students, what tipsdo you usually give them on
marketing themselves as a writer?
Denny S. Bryce (06:22):
Interestingly enough, one of my first classes
for Drexel was a class onmarketing for authors and right
away, I'm a big fan ofvisibility.
In this day and age, if you areintending to have others read
your book and buy your books,whether you choose the indie
(06:45):
path or the traditional path topublication, People got to know
you.
You got to find your brand andthen have visibility, and you
don't necessarily have to waituntil the day you sell your book
To me.
Once your commitment is therefor your career, start building
(07:11):
your brand, start your website,communicate, find a format, a
platform or two or three thatyou enjoy.
I think that's a first step.
You, in the early stages ofmarketing and public relations
as an author, don't get intosomething that feels
(07:35):
overwhelming and in this day andage.
At the same time, don't turnyour back on social media
because you feel uncomfortable.
It's part of what we have to do.
J.D. Myall (07:50):
Love that.
When you're looking at yourstudents' work in the packet
exchanges, what are the areasthat it seems like students
struggle the most with and howcould they improve?
Denny S. Bryce (08:00):
Well, I will be quite frank that it's different
for every student and that'shonestly the way I feel.
There's no cut and dry, onepath problem for any student
that they're committed to andworking with them to enhance
(08:26):
where they are versus changewhat they're trying to
accomplish.
I think that's critical withwriting because it's such an
organic place.
As an artist, you are an artistand trying to tell an artist
(08:47):
what their art should be is notmy job.
My role in that communicationis to really um, encourage
support and, yeah, if there's agrammar thing, we can work on
that.
If there's a structure, a storystructure thing, we will work
on that.
If there's a structure, a storystructure thing, we will work
(09:08):
on that.
If we want, if you are lookingby the end of your MFA program,
to get your work out and find ifyou're going traditional to an
agent, if and how do you shapeyour, your game plan, if you're
going indie, because that'sstill running your own business.
(09:28):
So those are the sort ofinteractions I like to have with
students that I coach.
We're going to work on thatproject so that you know that um
thesis, whatever you want tocall it, your story, so that
when it's ready for when it'sbeing called for for submissions
, it's ready.
(09:49):
But we're also talking aboutyour industry, your career,
what's going on in publishingthat I like to share with people
, since I'm, you know, as a bookcritic and some of the other
things that I do.
I'm very much about havingauthors be very in touch and in
(10:10):
tune with the industry, and it'snot about following trends.
It's about understanding what'sgoing on in the marketplace.
J.D. Myall (10:19):
And what is going on in the marketplace right now?
Any tips for?
Denny S. Bryce (10:22):
people Any tips?
It's dominated a lot.
I'd say create a vision board.
I'm very much a fan of a visionboard.
If the New York Times is on yourvision board, look at what is
happening there and not redowhat you're doing to match what
it's doing, but understand it'scyclical.
(10:43):
I mean six months ago on theNew York Times bestseller list
you saw Colleen Hoover over andover and over again.
Now you're seeing the romanticromantic is what they're calling
it.
But romance, fantasy orromantic fantasy has been around
forever.
(11:04):
But when something catches andthere's a new catch word to
define it like romanticy,there's that popularity that's
happening.
And you're seeing intraditional fiction more and
more um, um, you know editorsand and and your big five and
(11:25):
whomever's out there buyingRomantici.
But there's a focus on debutauthors.
Debut authors are anopportunity for publishing to
put a big push behind a newauthor that doesn't have a track
record that's a little fuzzy ormessy unless you do things.
(11:46):
There's been one author thatsort of messed up that
opportunity but she's a YAauthor.
I won't go into that but um, sothose opportunities are there.
Um, for indie authors.
Understand the business of thatend of being in indie
(12:08):
publishing.
Yes, you must write your bestpossible book, but you also must
understand how to launch thatbook.
You also must pull together ateam of professionals who can
help you put out the bestproduct possible.
I interact with quite a fewindie authors and there's great
(12:30):
opportunity out there,especially if you're a romance
writer, especially if you're afantasy writer, especially if
you're writing contemporary,heartfelt contemporary with
romance elements.
So knowing genres and beingnosy online about what's
(12:53):
happening in publishing willhelp.
J.D. Myall (12:56):
I love that.
Why should students choose anMFA program and why Drexel?
Denny S. Bryce (13:03):
Well, everything that I know about Drexel is one
.
It's just one of the top MFAprograms out there.
Number one you want a topprogram, one that's respected,
one that, if you name drop,people are sitting back.
Oh, I love that when it happens.
Oh, I'm an adjunct professor atDrexel.
Oh yeah, understanding what arethe best paths to need to use
(13:25):
to be a success.
J.D. Myall (14:13):
I love that.
I love that.
I love that your new titlethat's coming out.
Can't we Be Friends?
In closing, can you push thatso they can race to the
bookstores and buy it, Becausethis will come out after the
fifth.
It comes out in a few days.
Denny S. Bryce (14:24):
We're very excited.
This is my first co-authoredbook, so the name of the book is
Can't we Be Friends, but it'sthe story of the friendship
between Ella Fitzgerald andMarilyn Monroe, and my friend,
eliza Knight and I startedworking on this book in 2019.
And so actually, we justrecorded an interview for like
(14:49):
five minutes before I got intalking with you.
So we're very excited about thebook.
We're very excited that it'sabout to be released.
We worked on it for five years,we sold it, and so happy days
Was that hard.
Co-writing Co-writing isdifferent.
It is a challenge.
(15:11):
Now Eliza has many more booksthan I do.
I have five books out now, withthis one or with the next one,
and she has maybe 60.
Okay, so there are.
She has a style, a work style.
I have a work style, but thefact that we were able to focus
(15:37):
on story and merge our goals forthe book helped us make it a
more seamless process, because Ican imagine that sometimes it
can get pretty hairy Because Iwrite I'm a slow writer, she's a
fast writer, I'm a.
You know I will noodlesomething and I really like
(16:00):
playing with themes.
I have more of a literary vet.
She has a lot of romancebackground, so meshing those two
areas was something we werevery effective at doing, but we
both understood what type ofwork we were looking to deliver
to readers.
J.D. Myall (16:20):
Awesome.
Thank you so much for your time.
I appreciate you and thank youfor having me and I hope this
worked out.
It did it did.
Today we're going to be talkingto Eric Smith.
Eric Smith rocks, A renownedliterary agent with PS Literary.
He's an author of titles likeWith or Without you and he's an
(16:40):
educator at Drexel University.
Today, Eric will be helping usdemystify the packet exchange
process.
He'll offer craft advice andinsight to help you elevate your
writing.
Welcome, Eric.
Eric Smith (16:52):
Hey, thanks for having me.
J.D. Myall (16:55):
You actually spoke when I graduated at Drexel, oh
excellent.
You weren't teaching a classyet, though, so I didn't get to
be in your class.
Eric Smith (17:04):
Oh, yes, I remember that.
Uh, there was a at the push topublish thing, right?
Yeah, oh, excellent.
J.D. Myall (17:11):
What factors do you think prospective students
should consider when choosing anMFA writing program?
Eric Smith (17:17):
Ooh, I mean, I always.
So you know I I'm veryfortunate that I have a lot of
friends who are aspiring writerswho ask for advice.
Pretty often it's kind of whathappens when you're the literary
agent in the group of friends.
I always tell them to make sureyou're researching the teachers
in the program right, likeyou're.
That's, that's the thing you'relooking for.
(17:39):
You're looking for theprofessors who actually have the
experience, who have beenpublished, who work in the
industry, who are still activelydoing those things.
They're going to give youadvice.
That's, I guess, applicable andrelevant to what you're
pursuing.
So take a look at the teachers.
I feel like Drexel is prettyfortunate with the wonderful
(18:00):
faculty that we have there,that's for sure.
J.D. Myall (18:03):
Very true, Very true .
Oh well, no, I'll stay in order.
I'll come to that.
I was going to.
Well, I might as well jump.
I already jumped.
You do these workshops on yourwebsite sometimes and you had
one for nonfiction proposals.
Are you going to do one forfiction proposals?
Eric Smith (18:21):
No know, I haven't done one for fiction proposals,
um, mostly because I think ifyou are writing fiction, uh, and
you're a debut author, the bookhas to be finished, right, so
there's almost no point to do afiction proposal.
Non-fiction is different where,like, if you're writing
non-fiction and you're an expertin your field, you can pitch on
proposal where it's just thenot quite finished manuscript
(18:43):
and the idea, because thepublisher is supposed to give
you an advance so you can finishyour book and do your research.
So probably not yet, but I dodo query letter workshops, which
I think are sometimes helpful.
J.D. Myall (18:56):
OK, cool.
How do workshops and MFAprograms function and what are
the benefits and challenges tothat model?
Eric Smith (19:04):
I mean it depends on the MFA program, you know, but
for the most part it's a lot ofsharing and critique and back
and forth.
Right, You're swapping yourmanuscript or sometimes short
stories and essays, depending onwhat you're doing with your
critique partners, with yourprofessors, and just polishing
it up as much as you can, whilelearning a lot along the way.
You know, I love it when I getan MFA student who wants to
(19:28):
write children's books, forexample.
You know, I occasionally getsomeone who's writing a middle
grade book or a young adult bookand I'm reading their prose and
it's feeling way more adult,you know.
So there's that fun extrabenefit of saying, well, here
here's some homework, here'ssome novels that I love, here's
some things that have inspiredme, here's some craft books.
So you're you're learning alongthe way and figuring out where
(19:50):
your voice belongs and how tohone your voice as you're doing
that.
Critique and and workshoppingLove that.
(20:12):
How does the package exchangeprocess work for you, from the
moment of introduction to thestudent to the last their packet
in progress.
Sometimes it's a chapter,Sometimes it's the entirety of
the packet, Sometimes it's awhole 25,000 words, Depends on
where we're at and we just we goback and forth.
You know I give it a look, Icheck out their edits, I check
(20:32):
out what they recently written.
I give them lots of notes, Isend it back to them.
I usually give them a week tosort of I don't know take in all
the edits and read through themand develop questions and then
we have a check-in.
You know I'm hopping on a Zoomor a phone call or, if the
student happens to live inPhilly, meeting in person like
(20:53):
every three weeks to chat overand answer any questions that
they've got.
You know I sort of firmlyapproach it from the perspective
of this is their book, this istheir story.
I'm just trying to help themtell the best version of it
right, so like if the editsdon't work for you, it's okay,
it's all right, we're not goingto have a problem, but ideally
(21:15):
I'm helping you get it in theshape that will one day get it
published.
J.D. Myall (21:21):
Love that too.
So in a situation with yourself, how would you, what advice
would you have students inhelping the process run smoothly
, and you know making andhelping themselves get the best
and the most out of it.
Eric Smith (21:36):
Just be as open to criticism as you can be.
I know it can be hard.
I know it can feel oh goodness,it can feel like an attack on
who you are.
Sometimes, you know like Iwrite very personal stories.
Sometimes when I get critiqueson them I'm like hey, you don't
know me, you know, but we aretrying to tell you we are trying
to help you tell the bestversion of your story.
We're trying to help you tellthe best version of your story.
(21:58):
Also, get critiques and getworkshops outside of working
with your professor and outsideof your potential cohort Right.
Turn to your friends.
You know like it's.
It's not just a a bubble whereyou're only working with
potentially me or potentiallythe couple of friends in your
MFA program.
Look elsewhere to work withyour friends.
(22:20):
I can't tell you how muchgetting that outside perspective
can can really help.
J.D. Myall (22:26):
Now with my packet exchange.
Like I found all the teachersincredibly helpful Sadiqa
Johnson was really really goodwith like developmental edits
and Heather Christie was reallygood with detail and helping you
bring out the setting.
What do you think yourstrengths are as a packet
exchange teacher?
Eric Smith (22:43):
Oh I mean.
I think my strengths arecertainly voice.
You know, in my agent life Iwork on children's books, I work
on adult books, I work on litfic, I work on fantasy, I work
on sci-fi I work all over theplace.
So I'm really in tune with whatvoice should feel like based on
the genre or category thatyou're writing in.
Um, I, I'm also a bit of a bratwhen it comes to things like
(23:08):
world building and motivation.
So, like you're gonna get somenitty-gritty sort of complainy
questions from me when you'reworking on a book that has, you
know, high fantasy elements orbig world building bits, I'm
gonna ask a lot of whys uh, andit might get annoying, uh, but
remember there has to be areason for for everything.
(23:29):
Um, you know, I I once went to aa book launch for a fantasy
author friend of mine and shewas talking about how, when she
was working with her editor onher fantasy novel, her editor
kept asking her questions likewell, why can this person do
this magic?
Or why are there two moons inthe sky?
Or why is water doing x and y?
And her answer was always justlike, well, just because it's
(23:54):
not a reason, right, you can'tdo that.
That's not okay.
That's why that editor rippedapart that book and why that
book turned out to be so greatlater.
J.D. Myall (24:00):
So, uh, yeah, gonna ask a lot of wise in your view,
what are the elements that makea first page of a manuscript
stand out?
Eric Smith (24:10):
oh, a first page.
Oh, that's so hard.
Um, oh boy, so first page.
I think the the big thing Ilook for in a first page is
voice, right, so like I can tellright away if the voice isn't
right for the category or thegenre or what the story they're
trying to tell.
Um, that's the thing that'sgoing to stand out the most to
(24:32):
me.
Um, it's a little differentwhen you talk about like first
chapters, right, because likefirst chapters, you're looking
for stakes motivation.
You're looking to get to firstchapters.
You're looking for stakesmotivation.
You're looking to get to knowthe character.
You're looking to get groundedin the setting.
You're looking for all thosebig things.
But that first page, that firstimpression, it's, it's voice
for sure.
J.D. Myall (24:50):
Yeah, how do you suggest students avoid the saggy
middle?
Eric Smith (24:57):
Oh no, that's a hard question because I get to that
in every single one of my books,every book that I write.
When I'm at about like 35,000words, that's when I'm like I've
never written a book before.
I don't know what I'm doinganymore.
This is terrible.
I think the thing that helps isyour critique partners, and it's
(25:19):
your cohort, it's your friendsthat are reading it, it's the
professor you're working with.
You know, when you're outsideof the program, it's certainly
just your critique partners,because they're the ones that
are going to give you the kickin the pants that says you know,
keep going, like there'ssomething here you need to keep
going.
When you're going on your ownand you're hitting that middle
point, it's really hard to findthat motivation to keep going at
(25:39):
it.
And I hit that middle pointwith every book I write, and
that's usually the point where Iturn to my critique partners.
I'm like, hey, is theresomething here?
Should I keep going?
Like, do I scrap this and workon something else?
And sometimes I get brutallyhonest feedback and that's why
there's a lot of half-finishedbooks on my hard drive.
You need that.
(26:00):
You need that.
J.D. Myall (26:03):
What can you tell writers about crafting a
compelling ending?
Eric Smith (26:09):
I think the best endings don't try to tie
everything up in a little bowright Like it can be really
tempting to be like all right, Igot to the ending.
Now here's an epilogue where Ishow everybody being happy.
Or you know, here's, here's a,here's a wedding scene one year
later, and like you don't alwaysneed that.
You know, like real lifedoesn't always end in a nice
(26:30):
shiny bow.
Uh, so stick to what feels realright.
Stick to what you feel likewould actually happen.
Like I don't know, I alwaysstruggle with a book where, like
the main character isn't like arace or something and at the
end they win.
Really, that doesn't happen allthe time.
Like second place is still okay.
You know, like I try to stickwith the realism.
(26:53):
Your readers will appreciate it.
They won't feel like they'rebeing pandered to.
You know, I just recently did apodcast where we were talking
about the endings to some of mybooks and, like I stick with the
realistic endings with my booksand some people don't like that
.
But I don't know, that's,that's what life is like.
J.D. Myall (27:15):
What makes a good villain?
Eric Smith (27:18):
Oh, a good villain has good motivation, like they
think they are the good guy intheir own story.
Right, that's what a goodvillain is.
J.D. Myall (27:25):
Um, I'm like looking at my own books again.
I'm like who?
Eric Smith (27:28):
are the bad guys in my books.
Ah, like, like I in one of mybooks.
You can go your way.
It's a cute little rom-com forthe most part, but one of the
characters, her father, is likea tech mogul with tons of money
who thinks he's a good guybecause he's restoring buildings
and he's buying properties andhe's putting new things in there
.
But he's actually gentrifyingneighborhoods and he's not
(27:49):
really welcome in these spaces.
But he doesn't know that.
You know, he thinks he's thegood guy.
He thinks he's the good guy, hethinks he's doing something
right.
Uh, so a good villain thinksthey're doing the right thing.
Um, I feel like marvel movies doa really good job of this.
I don't know, I don't know whomy, who, my fellow nerds are
that are listening to this rightnow, but, like most marvel
(28:10):
villains think they're doingsomething good and they have
really great motivation and I, Ilike the way that they're
written.
And dc villains oh my god, somany dc villains are just like
I'm bad because I'm bad, youknow, and I don't know.
I'm sure someone's gonna getmad at that comment, but that's
what I tend to do you have anyadvice on crafting compelling
(28:31):
characters?
write a giant synopsis.
I I know everyone hates them.
I talk about them online allthe time.
But I'm telling you, I writelike a 10 to 20 page synopsis
for every book that I write andit makes the storytelling way
easier.
I can turn out the book wayfaster and I know what my
(28:51):
characters want right.
I know what their motivation is.
I know what they don't like.
I know what they're driven by.
Write a big synopsis.
You're going to hate it.
You're going to hate it.
But I'm telling you, you writea Wikipedia page for your own
book in a big word document andit's going to make the process
so much easier.
And if you get me as aprofessor in the packet exchange
(29:12):
, I'm going to make you do one.
So just keep practicing thepacket exchange.
J.D. Myall (29:20):
I'm gonna make you do one, so just keep practicing
love.
Eric Smith (29:23):
That, um, do you have any advice on good dialogue
?
Oh yeah, I.
I do something really weirdwhen it comes to writing
dialogue um.
I read a lot of plays, so Iread musicals, I read plays.
The last five years is great.
(29:47):
I was a theater kid so of coursethis is natural to me and I
like reading musicals and playsanyway.
But I'm telling you, read someplays, read some musicals.
If you're really struggling andthat's not quite for you, pick
up some romance novels, romancenovels and rom-coms, even if
it's out of your category andgenre of choice rom-com people
(30:10):
who write rom-coms are mastersof banter and masters of
dialogue and they have dialoguethat doesn't necessarily move
the plot along, but it movesalong the character growth in a
really interesting way andyou'll learn so much just from
reading them.
Go, treat yourself to an EmilyHenry novel.
She's wonderful, her books aregreat and you'll learn a lot.
J.D. Myall (30:32):
Okay, I never had that answer before, by the way,
and I've asked a lot of peoplethat question.
I like that.
I'm telling okay, I never hadthat answer before, by the way,
and I've asked a lot of peoplethat question I like that.
Eric Smith (30:38):
I'm telling you plays and musicals.
J.D. Myall (30:39):
It's, it's, it's a thing what advice would you give
students who are strugglingwith pacing?
Eric Smith (30:44):
in their novels oh, struggling with pacing?
That's a good question.
Um, you know, usually when oneof my books is oh, excuse me,
usually when one of my books haspace that's dragging, it's
because there's something in thebook that doesn't belong there.
Right, and this happens everytime.
I will sit down and I'll startreading and I'll get to a
(31:07):
section I'm like, oh, I'm justgoing to skip over that and I
try to move on to something else, that part that you're skipping
over because it's boringyourself, that you're skipping
over because it's boringyourself, I can go, you can get
rid of it, because you, youobviously don't need it if
you're not driven to read yourown story there.
Also, if you find that yourworld building is taking the
place of the story, right, so,like your story should be what
(31:30):
pulls the world building along,not the other way around.
And when it's the other wayaround, that's when the pace
slows down, when you're spendingtoo much time describing every
shrub in the haunted forest orsomething right, that's, that's
not pulling your book along,that's dragging it back.
J.D. Myall (31:45):
I'm laughing Cause that's my first draft.
I always have to go back andbend it out.
Eric Smith (31:51):
But you know what I think it's better to have way
too much than to have too littleright, because when you have
too much, that's when you can goback and do the trimming, uh,
and make sure all the good stuffis there.
So like, feel free to write toomuch and then just go back what
do you?
J.D. Myall (32:06):
what advice do you have on world building?
Eric Smith (32:10):
oh boy.
Um, I think it ties back to meand how I like to ask why for
everything?
Right, like, make sure there'sa reason for it.
Right, make sure that it issomething that informs the
entirety of the world.
Right, that there's like a firmpurpose for everything.
There I can share a littlestory.
So, like, my first YA novel isa fantasy novel.
(32:32):
It's called Inked.
It came out forever ago and Iremember when my editor bought
it and we were going throughedits and she was like so
there's a lot of steampunk inthis book.
I was like yeah she's like why?
Because it's cool and she'slike it's not a reason why to
have it.
There's no steampunk in thatnovel.
Now it came out.
Nothing in there about it.
(32:53):
It cut 30 000 words from thebook of me describing the, the
pistons and the gadgets andeverything that did not belong
in it.
It didn't inform the world.
It had no purpose.
It was there for aesthetics.
That's not a reason forelements in your world.
It should do something, so makesure it does something.
So you're saying with myagenting and my teaching?
J.D. Myall (33:15):
Yeah, you're exposed to a lot of new writers between
the two.
What mistakes are you mostoften seeing?
Eric Smith (33:22):
Oh, the mistakes I most often see.
Yeah, I feel like the mistakesI see the most are people that
just don't know the categorythat they're writing in or the
genre.
You know they'll say like oh,I'm writing a romance novel and
then I start the book and likethe love interest is like dead
or something.
I'm like well, it's not reallynot really gonna work there, um,
or they're writing you know,I've written a young adult novel
(33:44):
and the main character is like26.
You know it's like reallysimple mistakes, um, that like
sometimes you don't know anybetter if you don't have like a
writing community or or you knowa, a class like this to sort of
learn this stuff from.
Um, those are the most commonmistakes and they're they're.
They're certainly easy to makeif you're not aware of what the
market looks like.
(34:05):
So we'll make sure you don'tmake them what does the market
look like?
J.D. Myall (34:10):
what are you seeing right now?
Eric Smith (34:11):
that's doing really well oh, um, well, I guess right
now everyone wants, uh, highconcept romantic comedies.
So it's a, it's a rom-com thatdoes something a little
different, you know, a littlemagic, maybe a little little
sci-fi somewhere in the mix.
Um, I concept romances, just ingeneral, are really big.
Um, I've worked on a couplethat have come out recently.
(34:34):
Where are you, where's thatbook?
Ah, there it is.
Um, this one just came out thismonth called the spy, and I
came out with Berkeley.
It's a, a rom-com that happensto have a lot of action in it.
Uh, this one came out back inJanuary.
It's a, uh, science fictionlove story about two people
trapped, uh, around a hydra,hadron collider, essentially.
(34:56):
So, high concept romances,really big.
Horror is really big right now.
So, anything in the horrorspace children's books, adult
books, you name it especially inchildren's books, cause I love
horror in children's booksbecause it's not so much about
being gross and scary as it isteaching kids how to be brave
(35:16):
about things, you know, and Ijust I think that's such a
powerful storytelling, I guessdevice there.
So, yeah, horror romances, ohboy, those are the two big ones
right now for me.
J.D. Myall (35:31):
Is dark academia still a thing or not so much?
Oh yeah, people always lovethat.
Eric Smith (35:35):
Okay, for sure.
J.D. Myall (35:43):
Okay, academia is still a thing or not so much.
Oh yeah, people always lovethat okay oh for sure.
Eric Smith (35:45):
Okay, are there any websites or tools that you think
are essential to helping newwriters navigate their own
writing journeys?
Oh, tools and websites.
I mean, I know a lot when itcomes to, like, the publishing
world, uh, those sort ofwebsites.
So if you're looking for thosekind of resources, you know I
recommend publishers marketplace.
Publishers weekly has a greatnewsletter.
Writers digest has a greatnewsletter.
Uh, I recommend podcasts likeprint run, which is just
(36:07):
probably the best industrypodcast.
Um, the shit no one tells youabout writing is a fantastic
podcast run by two of mycoworkers.
Let me see, deadline city is ais a great podcast If you're
into middle grade and youngadult books.
It's run by Daniel Clinton'sright A Cordova.
Let's do a lot of industry.
Podcasts are very, very helpfulin terms of writing advice,
(36:31):
that's.
I feel like that's a harder one.
I would.
I would look up Jamie Attenberg.
She runs 1000 days of summerwait, 1000, 100 days of summer,
which is a a great uh like, Iguess, yearly online writing
campaign.
But she also has a book, uh,called 100 days of summer.
(36:51):
That's really, really helpful.
Uh, I'd look up charlie janeanders.
Uh, they're a magnificentsci-fi author who has a she.
They have a book called umnever say you can't survive, and
it's probably my favorite bookabout craft and the writing life
, so I would definitely pickthat up.
J.D. Myall (37:13):
And uh yeah, jamie attenberg and charlie are two
two good authors to start with,I think what advice do you offer
students when they startgetting rejected by agents and
publishers and literary agentslike how do you?
What advice would you offerthem on the rejection?
Eric Smith (37:29):
part of a writing I would say just to keep going,
like, please, keep going.
You know, I look at the clientsthat I work with in my agent
life and you know one of them,you know, after we sold her
first book.
So I signed her and her firstbook sold in like three months
and she texted me when we sawthe pre-order link go live and
(37:52):
and we talked about the factthat she had been pitching
agents for something like 10years.
It was like a really long timetrying to find an agent, um, and
it just had to be the rightbook, right.
And then I have other authorswho, like, started querying,
signed with me after a month andthen we sold their book in like
10 days.
Like everyone's journey is sowildly different, uh, and it
(38:16):
just has to be the book at theright time.
There's this element of likeluck and like publishing alchemy
that happens sometimes in thisbusiness.
You just have to keep going andfind that right person and I
feel very fortunate to be theright person for quite a few
people looking at my books rightnow.
But it takes.
(38:37):
It takes a while and remember,if you're in the program, I am
here to be a resource for youwhen you start querying agents.
Please let me know if you havequestions, if you want advice.
You can't pitch me, but I feellike it's more valuable to have
me as a friend who will adviseyou for as long as you need.
J.D. Myall (38:54):
Love that, Because I imagine your inbox would be
swollen all the time withstudents.
Yeah, no, it's not.
It's a bit of a disaster but Ilike it.
What's the best piece ofwriting advice you've ever been
given?
Eric Smith (39:13):
Best piece of writing advice.
I feel like this.
I don't know if this is gonnaregister with with everybody the
way I wanted to, but I remembermy first book was coming out.
I had an event at bea book expoamerica in new york.
They don't do it anymore, butit was a big, big festival.
It used to be really wonderful.
Uh, and I was talking to nicolay.
(39:34):
She's the one who wroteeverything, everything, yeah,
just wonderful.
She blurbed one of my books acouple of years ago and I was
asking I was like what advice doyou have for somebody with a
first book coming out?
And she told me she's like youknow what, have something else.
And I was like, well, I don'tknow what, hook everything you
(39:56):
got to your life and writing,you know, to to the books that
you're working on, to the bookthat maybe you have coming out,
or the book that you have thatyou're pitching around, um,
because that's just not healthy.
Right, there's, there's,there's a lot more going on than
just that.
Uh, so have something else.
You know, have a.
Have a fun hobby that you like.
(40:16):
I play a lot of video games.
I like the garden.
I'm terrible at it.
Everything dies.
I try my best.
You know, I spend a lot of timewith my friends and my family.
Just make sure there'ssomething else going on, um,
because really publishing thewhole process is so out of your
control, right?
(40:40):
Like waiting for people to sayyes, waiting for the book to
come out, hoping the trademagazines will like it, hoping
you get reviews.
Like you can't control any ofit, right, so like, have
something else, that's in yourcontrol You'll be much happier.
J.D. Myall (40:46):
Love that, I love that.
Any advice on revision.
Eric Smith (40:52):
Say yes to the stuff that works for you and just
remember again, it's the whole.
And say yes to the stuff thatworks for you and just remember
again, it's the whole.
We're trying to help you tellthe best version of your story
thing.
So stick with what works.
And when it comes to critiqueswith your colleagues or your
cohort or your MFA friends, tryto think about where they're
coming from with their critique,right, because you know you're
going to have some peoplecritiquing your books that maybe
(41:14):
don't read what you happen tobe writing, right?
That happens all the time.
Um, take what you can from it.
Uh, if it doesn't work for you,it's okay.
Like, I can't tell you how manytimes I have, like, a student
who's writing fantasy and no onein the cohort is writing a
fantasy novel, right, and thecritiques they get back are
usually so brutal and it's veryupsetting and we have to have
(41:36):
talks about it.
Take what works for you andeverything else with a sort of
grain of salt there.
That was me.
Denny S. Bryce (41:44):
It's the worst.
J.D. Myall (41:48):
But I hear they're getting more fantasy students.
Now I hear that the followingcohorts it's been excellent, I
will probably get you.
Eric Smith (41:55):
Then You're a fantasy student.
J.D. Myall (41:59):
How did you end up agenting in Canada?
Eric Smith (42:04):
So I started my publishing career at Quirk,
which is a publisher here inPhilly.
I was there for a pretty longtime, the agency opening at PS
literary, because I had done themarketing and publicity for two
of their clients at at my atthe publishing house.
So I reached out and I was likehey, you know, like I I I've
(42:25):
never been an agent before, butI've worked in publishing for a
long time.
I have books that I've written.
I think I'd be good at it.
Can we have a conversation?
And and they can we have aconversation?
And they wanted to talk to meand I have never been to the
office.
It's been eight years and I'venever gone to the office.
That's sort of how it happened.
It's the kind of career jumpyou see a lot of people make
(42:48):
when they become agents.
It's from sometimes they comefrom the author space, sometimes
they come from being a lawyerand sometimes they come from
having worked in publishing.
J.D. Myall (42:59):
Cool Is it?
Was it hard to learn?
Was it an adjustment?
Was it an easy process?
Eric Smith (43:03):
The adjustment period was more the like
financial constraints right solike agents work on commission
right so like got to startselling books to make it a
career.
So you know, I didn't reallysell my first books until a
couple of months in and thatstill that doesn't really
generate a salary right away.
So yeah, that part wasdifficult.
(43:23):
The getting to know editors andgetting to pitch books part.
That that part wasn't difficultbecause I already knew a bunch
of people.
It's pretty familiar with thepublishing industry and the
places the books couldpotentially go.
That part I don't want to sayit was easy, but it wasn't as
challenging okay.
J.D. Myall (43:42):
Is there anything about being part of an mfa
program and the realities ofpublishing that you think new
writers should know?
That we haven't covered.
Eric Smith (44:05):
Yet how is the mfa program the realities?
I don't know.
That's a really good question.
I don't think so.
Well, you know, let's talkabout the reality of publishing,
and do they have faculty andadvisors that are part of the
current business?
Do they have books with majorpublishers?
Do they have experience?
If that's not there, that's aproblem for that program, in my
(44:31):
opinion, and Drexel doesn't havethat problem, so that's not a
thing to potentially worry about.
I don't know if someone elseout there is watching this and
thinking about MFA programs.
That's the thing to look outfor.
J.D. Myall (44:42):
Love that, love that .
Any final advice or words ofwisdom to share?
Eric Smith (44:48):
Oh, just to take your time.
Anyone who's writing andworking on your thesis or
planning to enter a program likethis generally you have a good
two years to finish that book.
Take your time working on yourthesis or or planning to enter a
program like this.
You know, generally you have agood two years to finish that
book.
Take your time working on it.
You know this is the time toreally just I don't know let
that book grow and work withcritique partners and just
polish it up as much as you can.
(45:09):
Don't rush it.
Don't be that person that waitsthree months before graduation
and then you're madly bangingout your book.
Don't do that.
That defeats the purpose oflike working together.
So, uh, yeah, take your time,watch the potential ticking
clock there and and enjoy it,because these you know being in
(45:29):
this sort of mfa bubble herewhere you get to work so closely
with people that doesn't alwaysexist post-graduation and into
your career, like even for menow, like my 10th book came out
and now I'm working on somethingnew and I have to like email
all new critique partners,because all my buddies are in
different spaces in their careerand some don't have time and
(45:50):
some have too many kids and it'sjust, it's a whole thing.
So, uh, enjoy it.
Enjoy it while it's here, okay,all right, well, we will talk
soon.
J.D. Myall (45:57):
Yep have a blessed one you too.
Speaker 5 (45:59):
Bye.
That wraps up today's CraftChat Chronicles with JD Meyer.
Thanks for joining us.
If you liked the episode,please comment, subscribe and
share.
For show notes, writingworkshops and tips, head to
jdmayocom.
That's jdmayocom.
(46:21):
While you're there, join jd'smailing list for updates,
giveaways and more.
Welcome to Craft Chat Chronicles, the go-to podcast
for tips on craftingbest-selling fiction.
At Craft Chat Chronicles, webring you expert interviews,
insights and tips on writing,publishing and marketing.
Join the conversation andembark on a new chapter in your
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Join the conversation andembark on a new chapter in your
(00:25):
writing journey.
For workshops, show notes andmore information, visit
jdmayalcom.
J.D. Myall (00:34):
That's jdmayalcom On today's double episode of Craft
Chat Chronicles.
We'll have a brief chat withauthor Denny S Bryce, author of
titles like Can't we Be Friends,the Other Princess, wild Women
in the Blues and many more.
Denny will talk about herwriting and publishing journey.
She'll speak about being amember of Drexel's faculty and a
(00:55):
little bit about the MFAprocess, author marketing, and
then she'll give you some brieffacts on her novel Can't we Be
Friends.
And then after that, we'll gointo a deeper dive of
(01:28):
demystifying the MFA process andtalking about the thesis packet
and writing, craft andpublishing and market trends
with author and agent.
Denny S. Bryce (01:31):
Eric Smith, better known as Eric Smith Rocks
.
Stay tuned, you're in for agreat show.
How are you today?
Welcome, denny, I am fantastic.
How are you doing today?
J.D. Myall (01:36):
I'm doing well.
I'm doing well.
Can you tell everybody a littlebit about your publishing
journey and how you came toDrexel and all that good stuff?
Denny S. Bryce (01:49):
I certainly can, because I love talking about
myself.
Well, I'll say this because itis a long journey.
I started writing for fun whenI was running my PR and
marketing firm and that wasaround the turn of the century,
around 2000.
And I was a big fan of a TVshow, a TV show by the name of
(02:14):
Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
So when I came home aftertraveling or doing whatever I
did with my marketing and PR dayjob or day company, I would
write fan fiction and I was abig fan of the show, as I
mentioned, and I just got intoit.
And then one of the writersbecause we all wrote online with
(02:38):
you know mysterious names, youknow pen names and what have you
.
But one of the writers was agal who was in an organization
called Romance Writers ofAmerica and she suggested to me
that I join her on one of heryou know annual conferences.
And I did, had a great timehung out with writers there and
(03:03):
then started hanging out withwriters in my backyard.
At the time I was living inWashington DC.
Now I live in Savannah, but Ijoined some chapters, some
writing groups and what have you.
But I really wasn't committed towriting professionally, to
writing professionally because Ihad a big company to run and I
(03:26):
was busy, busy, busy.
But then I got obsessed withwriting and I wanted to do it
better, I wanted to do it moreand I had an opportunity to
(03:47):
enter a bunch of contests and Istarted winning contests and
that sort of gave me a littlebit of confidence and from there
I found an agent in 2016.
So you see, I spent a lot ofyears, you know, then in 2000,
and I think it was the yearafter I got an agent, I decided
that I wanted to write, I wantedto be a full-time author.
So I put the whole both my feetin the pond, so to speak, and
(04:11):
retired from the world offull-time marketing and PR so
that I had more time to write.
And that's when I sold my firstbook in 2019.
It was called.
It is called over there there'sa poster called Wild Women in
(04:33):
the Blues.
Then I went from there toseveral other books and now next
Tuesday I have another bookcoming out.
But as part of that journey Ialso had met Anne Garvin, of
several years in there.
Someplace.
She was teaching something inPhilly.
I got to hang out with her andthat group that was there.
(04:56):
That included Know Me, eve.
That's all copywriters.
Is that what you're referringto?
Oh, absolutely and so.
But this is when I waspre-published.
I was still just sort of likejust traveling around the globe
trying to find writing classesand what have you, and that
relationship was just soimportant because I kept track
(05:21):
of both of these women over theyears and then, when the
opportunity came for me to joinTall Poppies, I also got
involved with working with Nomiand Drexel University.
I've been working with Drexel,I'd say, for three years
(05:41):
approximately, maybe a littlelonger, and it's been a very
rewarding experience and I'mlooking forward to continuing to
teach the class and also do thecoaching.
I love interacting one on onewith MFA students.
It's just really a joyfulopportunity to work with young
(06:05):
writers, and age is not what I'mtalking about, it's just you
know where you are in thejourney, so to speak.
J.D. Myall (06:13):
So, with your history in marketing, when you
look at your students, what tipsdo you usually give them on
marketing themselves as a writer?
Denny S. Bryce (06:22):
Interestingly enough, one of my first classes
for Drexel was a class onmarketing for authors and right
away, I'm a big fan ofvisibility.
In this day and age, if you areintending to have others read
your book and buy your books,whether you choose the indie
(06:45):
path or the traditional path topublication, People got to know
you.
You got to find your brand andthen have visibility, and you
don't necessarily have to waituntil the day you sell your book
To me.
Once your commitment is therefor your career, start building
(07:11):
your brand, start your website,communicate, find a format, a
platform or two or three thatyou enjoy.
I think that's a first step.
You, in the early stages ofmarketing and public relations
as an author, don't get intosomething that feels
(07:35):
overwhelming and in this day andage.
At the same time, don't turnyour back on social media
because you feel uncomfortable.
It's part of what we have to do.
J.D. Myall (07:50):
Love that.
When you're looking at yourstudents' work in the packet
exchanges, what are the areasthat it seems like students
struggle the most with and howcould they improve?
Denny S. Bryce (08:00):
Well, I will be quite frank that it's different
for every student and that'shonestly the way I feel.
There's no cut and dry, onepath problem for any student
that they're committed to andworking with them to enhance
(08:26):
where they are versus changewhat they're trying to
accomplish.
I think that's critical withwriting because it's such an
organic place.
As an artist, you are an artistand trying to tell an artist
(08:47):
what their art should be is notmy job.
My role in that communicationis to really um, encourage
support and, yeah, if there's agrammar thing, we can work on
that.
If there's a structure, a storystructure thing, we will work
on that.
If there's a structure, a storystructure thing, we will work
(09:08):
on that.
If we want, if you are lookingby the end of your MFA program,
to get your work out and find ifyou're going traditional to an
agent, if and how do you shapeyour, your game plan, if you're
going indie, because that'sstill running your own business.
(09:28):
So those are the sort ofinteractions I like to have with
students that I coach.
We're going to work on thatproject so that you know that um
thesis, whatever you want tocall it, your story, so that
when it's ready for when it'sbeing called for for submissions
, it's ready.
(09:49):
But we're also talking aboutyour industry, your career,
what's going on in publishingthat I like to share with people
, since I'm, you know, as a bookcritic and some of the other
things that I do.
I'm very much about havingauthors be very in touch and in
(10:10):
tune with the industry, and it'snot about following trends.
It's about understanding what'sgoing on in the marketplace.
J.D. Myall (10:19):
And what is going on in the marketplace right now?
Any tips for?
Denny S. Bryce (10:22):
people Any tips?
It's dominated a lot.
I'd say create a vision board.
I'm very much a fan of a visionboard.
If the New York Times is on yourvision board, look at what is
happening there and not redowhat you're doing to match what
it's doing, but understand it'scyclical.
(10:43):
I mean six months ago on theNew York Times bestseller list
you saw Colleen Hoover over andover and over again.
Now you're seeing the romanticromantic is what they're calling
it.
But romance, fantasy orromantic fantasy has been around
forever.
(11:04):
But when something catches andthere's a new catch word to
define it like romanticy,there's that popularity that's
happening.
And you're seeing intraditional fiction more and
more um, um, you know editorsand and and your big five and
(11:25):
whomever's out there buyingRomantici.
But there's a focus on debutauthors.
Debut authors are anopportunity for publishing to
put a big push behind a newauthor that doesn't have a track
record that's a little fuzzy ormessy unless you do things.
(11:46):
There's been one author thatsort of messed up that
opportunity but she's a YAauthor.
I won't go into that but um, sothose opportunities are there.
Um, for indie authors.
Understand the business of thatend of being in indie
(12:08):
publishing.
Yes, you must write your bestpossible book, but you also must
understand how to launch thatbook.
You also must pull together ateam of professionals who can
help you put out the bestproduct possible.
I interact with quite a fewindie authors and there's great
(12:30):
opportunity out there,especially if you're a romance
writer, especially if you're afantasy writer, especially if
you're writing contemporary,heartfelt contemporary with
romance elements.
So knowing genres and beingnosy online about what's
(12:53):
happening in publishing willhelp.
J.D. Myall (12:56):
I love that.
Why should students choose anMFA program and why Drexel?
Denny S. Bryce (13:03):
Well, everything that I know about Drexel is one
.
It's just one of the top MFAprograms out there.
Number one you want a topprogram, one that's respected,
one that, if you name drop,people are sitting back.
Oh, I love that when it happens.
Oh, I'm an adjunct professor atDrexel.
Oh yeah, understanding what arethe best paths to need to use
(13:25):
to be a success.
J.D. Myall (14:13):
I love that.
I love that.
I love that your new titlethat's coming out.
Can't we Be Friends?
In closing, can you push thatso they can race to the
bookstores and buy it, Becausethis will come out after the
fifth.
It comes out in a few days.
Denny S. Bryce (14:24):
We're very excited.
This is my first co-authoredbook, so the name of the book is
Can't we Be Friends, but it'sthe story of the friendship
between Ella Fitzgerald andMarilyn Monroe, and my friend,
eliza Knight and I startedworking on this book in 2019.
And so actually, we justrecorded an interview for like
(14:49):
five minutes before I got intalking with you.
So we're very excited about thebook.
We're very excited that it'sabout to be released.
We worked on it for five years,we sold it, and so happy days
Was that hard.
Co-writing Co-writing isdifferent.
It is a challenge.
(15:11):
Now Eliza has many more booksthan I do.
I have five books out now, withthis one or with the next one,
and she has maybe 60.
Okay, so there are.
She has a style, a work style.
I have a work style, but thefact that we were able to focus
(15:37):
on story and merge our goals forthe book helped us make it a
more seamless process, because Ican imagine that sometimes it
can get pretty hairy Because Iwrite I'm a slow writer, she's a
fast writer, I'm a.
You know I will noodlesomething and I really like
(16:00):
playing with themes.
I have more of a literary vet.
She has a lot of romancebackground, so meshing those two
areas was something we werevery effective at doing, but we
both understood what type ofwork we were looking to deliver
to readers.
J.D. Myall (16:20):
Awesome.
Thank you so much for your time.
I appreciate you and thank youfor having me and I hope this
worked out.
It did it did.
Today we're going to be talkingto Eric Smith.
Eric Smith rocks, A renownedliterary agent with PS Literary.
He's an author of titles likeWith or Without you and he's an
(16:40):
educator at Drexel University.
Today, Eric will be helping usdemystify the packet exchange
process.
He'll offer craft advice andinsight to help you elevate your
writing.
Welcome, Eric.
Eric Smith (16:52):
Hey, thanks for having me.
J.D. Myall (16:55):
You actually spoke when I graduated at Drexel, oh
excellent.
You weren't teaching a classyet, though, so I didn't get to
be in your class.
Eric Smith (17:04):
Oh, yes, I remember that.
Uh, there was a at the push topublish thing, right?
Yeah, oh, excellent.
J.D. Myall (17:11):
What factors do you think prospective students
should consider when choosing anMFA writing program?
Eric Smith (17:17):
Ooh, I mean, I always.
So you know I I'm veryfortunate that I have a lot of
friends who are aspiring writerswho ask for advice.
Pretty often it's kind of whathappens when you're the literary
agent in the group of friends.
I always tell them to make sureyou're researching the teachers
in the program right, likeyou're.
That's, that's the thing you'relooking for.
(17:39):
You're looking for theprofessors who actually have the
experience, who have beenpublished, who work in the
industry, who are still activelydoing those things.
They're going to give youadvice.
That's, I guess, applicable andrelevant to what you're
pursuing.
So take a look at the teachers.
I feel like Drexel is prettyfortunate with the wonderful
(18:00):
faculty that we have there,that's for sure.
J.D. Myall (18:03):
Very true, Very true .
Oh well, no, I'll stay in order.
I'll come to that.
I was going to.
Well, I might as well jump.
I already jumped.
You do these workshops on yourwebsite sometimes and you had
one for nonfiction proposals.
Are you going to do one forfiction proposals?
Eric Smith (18:21):
No know, I haven't done one for fiction proposals,
um, mostly because I think ifyou are writing fiction, uh, and
you're a debut author, the bookhas to be finished, right, so
there's almost no point to do afiction proposal.
Non-fiction is different where,like, if you're writing
non-fiction and you're an expertin your field, you can pitch on
proposal where it's just thenot quite finished manuscript
(18:43):
and the idea, because thepublisher is supposed to give
you an advance so you can finishyour book and do your research.
So probably not yet, but I dodo query letter workshops, which
I think are sometimes helpful.
J.D. Myall (18:56):
OK, cool.
How do workshops and MFAprograms function and what are
the benefits and challenges tothat model?
Eric Smith (19:04):
I mean it depends on the MFA program, you know, but
for the most part it's a lot ofsharing and critique and back
and forth.
Right, You're swapping yourmanuscript or sometimes short
stories and essays, depending onwhat you're doing with your
critique partners, with yourprofessors, and just polishing
it up as much as you can, whilelearning a lot along the way.
You know, I love it when I getan MFA student who wants to
(19:28):
write children's books, forexample.
You know, I occasionally getsomeone who's writing a middle
grade book or a young adult bookand I'm reading their prose and
it's feeling way more adult,you know.
So there's that fun extrabenefit of saying, well, here
here's some homework, here'ssome novels that I love, here's
some things that have inspiredme, here's some craft books.
So you're you're learning alongthe way and figuring out where
(19:50):
your voice belongs and how tohone your voice as you're doing
that.
Critique and and workshoppingLove that.
(20:12):
How does the package exchangeprocess work for you, from the
moment of introduction to thestudent to the last their packet
in progress.
Sometimes it's a chapter,Sometimes it's the entirety of
the packet, Sometimes it's awhole 25,000 words, Depends on
where we're at and we just we goback and forth.
You know I give it a look, Icheck out their edits, I check
(20:32):
out what they recently written.
I give them lots of notes, Isend it back to them.
I usually give them a week tosort of I don't know take in all
the edits and read through themand develop questions and then
we have a check-in.
You know I'm hopping on a Zoomor a phone call or, if the
student happens to live inPhilly, meeting in person like
(20:53):
every three weeks to chat overand answer any questions that
they've got.
You know I sort of firmlyapproach it from the perspective
of this is their book, this istheir story.
I'm just trying to help themtell the best version of it
right, so like if the editsdon't work for you, it's okay,
it's all right, we're not goingto have a problem, but ideally
(21:15):
I'm helping you get it in theshape that will one day get it
published.
J.D. Myall (21:21):
Love that too.
So in a situation with yourself, how would you, what advice
would you have students inhelping the process run smoothly
, and you know making andhelping themselves get the best
and the most out of it.
Eric Smith (21:36):
Just be as open to criticism as you can be.
I know it can be hard.
I know it can feel oh goodness,it can feel like an attack on
who you are.
Sometimes, you know like Iwrite very personal stories.
Sometimes when I get critiqueson them I'm like hey, you don't
know me, you know, but we aretrying to tell you we are trying
to help you tell the bestversion of your story.
We're trying to help you tellthe best version of your story.
(21:58):
Also, get critiques and getworkshops outside of working
with your professor and outsideof your potential cohort Right.
Turn to your friends.
You know like it's.
It's not just a a bubble whereyou're only working with
potentially me or potentiallythe couple of friends in your
MFA program.
Look elsewhere to work withyour friends.
(22:20):
I can't tell you how muchgetting that outside perspective
can can really help.
J.D. Myall (22:26):
Now with my packet exchange.
Like I found all the teachersincredibly helpful Sadiqa
Johnson was really really goodwith like developmental edits
and Heather Christie was reallygood with detail and helping you
bring out the setting.
What do you think yourstrengths are as a packet
exchange teacher?
Eric Smith (22:43):
Oh I mean.
I think my strengths arecertainly voice.
You know, in my agent life Iwork on children's books, I work
on adult books, I work on litfic, I work on fantasy, I work
on sci-fi I work all over theplace.
So I'm really in tune with whatvoice should feel like based on
the genre or category thatyou're writing in.
Um, I, I'm also a bit of a bratwhen it comes to things like
(23:08):
world building and motivation.
So, like you're gonna get somenitty-gritty sort of complainy
questions from me when you'reworking on a book that has, you
know, high fantasy elements orbig world building bits, I'm
gonna ask a lot of whys uh, andit might get annoying, uh, but
remember there has to be areason for for everything.
(23:29):
Um, you know, I I once went to aa book launch for a fantasy
author friend of mine and shewas talking about how, when she
was working with her editor onher fantasy novel, her editor
kept asking her questions likewell, why can this person do
this magic?
Or why are there two moons inthe sky?
Or why is water doing x and y?
And her answer was always justlike, well, just because it's
(23:54):
not a reason, right, you can'tdo that.
That's not okay.
That's why that editor rippedapart that book and why that
book turned out to be so greatlater.
J.D. Myall (24:00):
So, uh, yeah, gonna ask a lot of wise in your view,
what are the elements that makea first page of a manuscript
stand out?
Eric Smith (24:10):
oh, a first page.
Oh, that's so hard.
Um, oh boy, so first page.
I think the the big thing Ilook for in a first page is
voice, right, so like I can tellright away if the voice isn't
right for the category or thegenre or what the story they're
trying to tell.
Um, that's the thing that'sgoing to stand out the most to
(24:32):
me.
Um, it's a little differentwhen you talk about like first
chapters, right, because likefirst chapters, you're looking
for stakes motivation.
You're looking to get to firstchapters.
You're looking for stakesmotivation.
You're looking to get to knowthe character.
You're looking to get groundedin the setting.
You're looking for all thosebig things.
But that first page, that firstimpression, it's, it's voice
for sure.
J.D. Myall (24:50):
Yeah, how do you suggest students avoid the saggy
middle?
Eric Smith (24:57):
Oh no, that's a hard question because I get to that
in every single one of my books,every book that I write.
When I'm at about like 35,000words, that's when I'm like I've
never written a book before.
I don't know what I'm doinganymore.
This is terrible.
I think the thing that helps isyour critique partners, and it's
(25:19):
your cohort, it's your friendsthat are reading it, it's the
professor you're working with.
You know, when you're outsideof the program, it's certainly
just your critique partners,because they're the ones that
are going to give you the kickin the pants that says you know,
keep going, like there'ssomething here you need to keep
going.
When you're going on your ownand you're hitting that middle
point, it's really hard to findthat motivation to keep going at
(25:39):
it.
And I hit that middle pointwith every book I write, and
that's usually the point where Iturn to my critique partners.
I'm like, hey, is theresomething here?
Should I keep going?
Like, do I scrap this and workon something else?
And sometimes I get brutallyhonest feedback and that's why
there's a lot of half-finishedbooks on my hard drive.
You need that.
(26:00):
You need that.
J.D. Myall (26:03):
What can you tell writers about crafting a
compelling ending?
Eric Smith (26:09):
I think the best endings don't try to tie
everything up in a little bowright Like it can be really
tempting to be like all right, Igot to the ending.
Now here's an epilogue where Ishow everybody being happy.
Or you know, here's, here's a,here's a wedding scene one year
later, and like you don't alwaysneed that.
You know, like real lifedoesn't always end in a nice
(26:30):
shiny bow.
Uh, so stick to what feels realright.
Stick to what you feel likewould actually happen.
Like I don't know, I alwaysstruggle with a book where, like
the main character isn't like arace or something and at the
end they win.
Really, that doesn't happen allthe time.
Like second place is still okay.
You know, like I try to stickwith the realism.
(26:53):
Your readers will appreciate it.
They won't feel like they'rebeing pandered to.
You know, I just recently did apodcast where we were talking
about the endings to some of mybooks and, like I stick with the
realistic endings with my booksand some people don't like that
.
But I don't know, that's,that's what life is like.
J.D. Myall (27:15):
What makes a good villain?
Eric Smith (27:18):
Oh, a good villain has good motivation, like they
think they are the good guy intheir own story.
Right, that's what a goodvillain is.
J.D. Myall (27:25):
Um, I'm like looking at my own books again.
I'm like who?
Eric Smith (27:28):
are the bad guys in my books.
Ah, like, like I in one of mybooks.
You can go your way.
It's a cute little rom-com forthe most part, but one of the
characters, her father, is likea tech mogul with tons of money
who thinks he's a good guybecause he's restoring buildings
and he's buying properties andhe's putting new things in there
.
But he's actually gentrifyingneighborhoods and he's not
(27:49):
really welcome in these spaces.
But he doesn't know that.
You know, he thinks he's thegood guy.
He thinks he's the good guy, hethinks he's doing something
right.
Uh, so a good villain thinksthey're doing the right thing.
Um, I feel like marvel movies doa really good job of this.
I don't know, I don't know whomy, who, my fellow nerds are
that are listening to this rightnow, but, like most marvel
(28:10):
villains think they're doingsomething good and they have
really great motivation and I, Ilike the way that they're
written.
And dc villains oh my god, somany dc villains are just like
I'm bad because I'm bad, youknow, and I don't know.
I'm sure someone's gonna getmad at that comment, but that's
what I tend to do you have anyadvice on crafting compelling
(28:31):
characters?
write a giant synopsis.
I I know everyone hates them.
I talk about them online allthe time.
But I'm telling you, I writelike a 10 to 20 page synopsis
for every book that I write andit makes the storytelling way
easier.
I can turn out the book wayfaster and I know what my
(28:51):
characters want right.
I know what their motivation is.
I know what they don't like.
I know what they're driven by.
Write a big synopsis.
You're going to hate it.
You're going to hate it.
But I'm telling you, you writea Wikipedia page for your own
book in a big word document andit's going to make the process
so much easier.
And if you get me as aprofessor in the packet exchange
(29:12):
, I'm going to make you do one.
So just keep practicing thepacket exchange.
J.D. Myall (29:20):
I'm gonna make you do one, so just keep practicing
love.
Eric Smith (29:23):
That, um, do you have any advice on good dialogue
?
Oh yeah, I.
I do something really weirdwhen it comes to writing
dialogue um.
I read a lot of plays, so Iread musicals, I read plays.
The last five years is great.
(29:47):
I was a theater kid so of coursethis is natural to me and I
like reading musicals and playsanyway.
But I'm telling you, read someplays, read some musicals.
If you're really struggling andthat's not quite for you, pick
up some romance novels, romancenovels and rom-coms, even if
it's out of your category andgenre of choice rom-com people
(30:10):
who write rom-coms are mastersof banter and masters of
dialogue and they have dialoguethat doesn't necessarily move
the plot along, but it movesalong the character growth in a
really interesting way andyou'll learn so much just from
reading them.
Go, treat yourself to an EmilyHenry novel.
She's wonderful, her books aregreat and you'll learn a lot.
J.D. Myall (30:32):
Okay, I never had that answer before, by the way,
and I've asked a lot of peoplethat question.
I like that.
I'm telling okay, I never hadthat answer before, by the way,
and I've asked a lot of peoplethat question I like that.
Eric Smith (30:38):
I'm telling you plays and musicals.
J.D. Myall (30:39):
It's, it's, it's a thing what advice would you give
students who are strugglingwith pacing?
Eric Smith (30:44):
in their novels oh, struggling with pacing?
That's a good question.
Um, you know, usually when oneof my books is oh, excuse me,
usually when one of my books haspace that's dragging, it's
because there's something in thebook that doesn't belong there.
Right, and this happens everytime.
I will sit down and I'll startreading and I'll get to a
(31:07):
section I'm like, oh, I'm justgoing to skip over that and I
try to move on to something else, that part that you're skipping
over because it's boringyourself, that you're skipping
over because it's boringyourself, I can go, you can get
rid of it, because you, youobviously don't need it if
you're not driven to read yourown story there.
Also, if you find that yourworld building is taking the
place of the story, right, so,like your story should be what
(31:30):
pulls the world building along,not the other way around.
And when it's the other wayaround, that's when the pace
slows down, when you're spendingtoo much time describing every
shrub in the haunted forest orsomething right, that's, that's
not pulling your book along,that's dragging it back.
J.D. Myall (31:45):
I'm laughing Cause that's my first draft.
I always have to go back andbend it out.
Eric Smith (31:51):
But you know what I think it's better to have way
too much than to have too littleright, because when you have
too much, that's when you can goback and do the trimming, uh,
and make sure all the good stuffis there.
So like, feel free to write toomuch and then just go back what
do you?
J.D. Myall (32:06):
what advice do you have on world building?
Eric Smith (32:10):
oh boy.
Um, I think it ties back to meand how I like to ask why for
everything?
Right, like, make sure there'sa reason for it.
Right, make sure that it issomething that informs the
entirety of the world.
Right, that there's like a firmpurpose for everything.
There I can share a littlestory.
So, like, my first YA novel isa fantasy novel.
(32:32):
It's called Inked.
It came out forever ago and Iremember when my editor bought
it and we were going throughedits and she was like so
there's a lot of steampunk inthis book.
I was like yeah she's like why?
Because it's cool and she'slike it's not a reason why to
have it.
There's no steampunk in thatnovel.
Now it came out.
Nothing in there about it.
(32:53):
It cut 30 000 words from thebook of me describing the, the
pistons and the gadgets andeverything that did not belong
in it.
It didn't inform the world.
It had no purpose.
It was there for aesthetics.
That's not a reason forelements in your world.
It should do something, so makesure it does something.
So you're saying with myagenting and my teaching?
J.D. Myall (33:15):
Yeah, you're exposed to a lot of new writers between
the two.
What mistakes are you mostoften seeing?
Eric Smith (33:22):
Oh, the mistakes I most often see.
Yeah, I feel like the mistakesI see the most are people that
just don't know the categorythat they're writing in or the
genre.
You know they'll say like oh,I'm writing a romance novel and
then I start the book and likethe love interest is like dead
or something.
I'm like well, it's not reallynot really gonna work there, um,
or they're writing you know,I've written a young adult novel
(33:44):
and the main character is like26.
You know it's like reallysimple mistakes, um, that like
sometimes you don't know anybetter if you don't have like a
writing community or or you knowa, a class like this to sort of
learn this stuff from.
Um, those are the most commonmistakes and they're they're.
They're certainly easy to makeif you're not aware of what the
market looks like.
(34:05):
So we'll make sure you don'tmake them what does the market
look like?
J.D. Myall (34:10):
what are you seeing right now?
Eric Smith (34:11):
that's doing really well oh, um, well, I guess right
now everyone wants, uh, highconcept romantic comedies.
So it's a, it's a rom-com thatdoes something a little
different, you know, a littlemagic, maybe a little little
sci-fi somewhere in the mix.
Um, I concept romances, just ingeneral, are really big.
Um, I've worked on a couplethat have come out recently.
(34:34):
Where are you, where's thatbook?
Ah, there it is.
Um, this one just came out thismonth called the spy, and I
came out with Berkeley.
It's a, a rom-com that happensto have a lot of action in it.
Uh, this one came out back inJanuary.
It's a, uh, science fictionlove story about two people
trapped, uh, around a hydra,hadron collider, essentially.
(34:56):
So, high concept romances,really big.
Horror is really big right now.
So, anything in the horrorspace children's books, adult
books, you name it especially inchildren's books, cause I love
horror in children's booksbecause it's not so much about
being gross and scary as it isteaching kids how to be brave
(35:16):
about things, you know, and Ijust I think that's such a
powerful storytelling, I guessdevice there.
So, yeah, horror romances, ohboy, those are the two big ones
right now for me.
J.D. Myall (35:31):
Is dark academia still a thing or not so much?
Oh yeah, people always lovethat.
Eric Smith (35:35):
Okay, for sure.
J.D. Myall (35:43):
Okay, academia is still a thing or not so much.
Oh yeah, people always lovethat okay oh for sure.
Eric Smith (35:45):
Okay, are there any websites or tools that you think
are essential to helping newwriters navigate their own
writing journeys?
Oh, tools and websites.
I mean, I know a lot when itcomes to, like, the publishing
world, uh, those sort ofwebsites.
So if you're looking for thosekind of resources, you know I
recommend publishers marketplace.
Publishers weekly has a greatnewsletter.
Writers digest has a greatnewsletter.
Uh, I recommend podcasts likeprint run, which is just
(36:07):
probably the best industrypodcast.
Um, the shit no one tells youabout writing is a fantastic
podcast run by two of mycoworkers.
Let me see, deadline city is ais a great podcast If you're
into middle grade and youngadult books.
It's run by Daniel Clinton'sright A Cordova.
Let's do a lot of industry.
Podcasts are very, very helpfulin terms of writing advice,
(36:31):
that's.
I feel like that's a harder one.
I would.
I would look up Jamie Attenberg.
She runs 1000 days of summerwait, 1000, 100 days of summer,
which is a a great uh like, Iguess, yearly online writing
campaign.
But she also has a book, uh,called 100 days of summer.
(36:51):
That's really, really helpful.
Uh, I'd look up charlie janeanders.
Uh, they're a magnificentsci-fi author who has a she.
They have a book called umnever say you can't survive, and
it's probably my favorite bookabout craft and the writing life
, so I would definitely pickthat up.
J.D. Myall (37:13):
And uh yeah, jamie attenberg and charlie are two
two good authors to start with,I think what advice do you offer
students when they startgetting rejected by agents and
publishers and literary agentslike how do you?
What advice would you offerthem on the rejection?
Eric Smith (37:29):
part of a writing I would say just to keep going,
like, please, keep going.
You know, I look at the clientsthat I work with in my agent
life and you know one of them,you know, after we sold her
first book.
So I signed her and her firstbook sold in like three months
and she texted me when we sawthe pre-order link go live and
(37:52):
and we talked about the factthat she had been pitching
agents for something like 10years.
It was like a really long timetrying to find an agent, um, and
it just had to be the rightbook, right.
And then I have other authorswho, like, started querying,
signed with me after a month andthen we sold their book in like
10 days.
Like everyone's journey is sowildly different, uh, and it
(38:16):
just has to be the book at theright time.
There's this element of likeluck and like publishing alchemy
that happens sometimes in thisbusiness.
You just have to keep going andfind that right person and I
feel very fortunate to be theright person for quite a few
people looking at my books rightnow.
But it takes.
(38:37):
It takes a while and remember,if you're in the program, I am
here to be a resource for youwhen you start querying agents.
Please let me know if you havequestions, if you want advice.
You can't pitch me, but I feellike it's more valuable to have
me as a friend who will adviseyou for as long as you need.
J.D. Myall (38:54):
Love that, Because I imagine your inbox would be
swollen all the time withstudents.
Yeah, no, it's not.
It's a bit of a disaster but Ilike it.
What's the best piece ofwriting advice you've ever been
given?
Eric Smith (39:13):
Best piece of writing advice.
I feel like this.
I don't know if this is gonnaregister with with everybody the
way I wanted to, but I remembermy first book was coming out.
I had an event at bea book expoamerica in new york.
They don't do it anymore, butit was a big, big festival.
It used to be really wonderful.
Uh, and I was talking to nicolay.
(39:34):
She's the one who wroteeverything, everything, yeah,
just wonderful.
She blurbed one of my books acouple of years ago and I was
asking I was like what advice doyou have for somebody with a
first book coming out?
And she told me she's like youknow what, have something else.
And I was like, well, I don'tknow what, hook everything you
(39:56):
got to your life and writing,you know, to to the books that
you're working on, to the bookthat maybe you have coming out,
or the book that you have thatyou're pitching around, um,
because that's just not healthy.
Right, there's, there's,there's a lot more going on than
just that.
Uh, so have something else.
You know, have a.
Have a fun hobby that you like.
(40:16):
I play a lot of video games.
I like the garden.
I'm terrible at it.
Everything dies.
I try my best.
You know, I spend a lot of timewith my friends and my family.
Just make sure there'ssomething else going on, um,
because really publishing thewhole process is so out of your
control, right?
(40:40):
Like waiting for people to sayyes, waiting for the book to
come out, hoping the trademagazines will like it, hoping
you get reviews.
Like you can't control any ofit, right, so like, have
something else, that's in yourcontrol You'll be much happier.
J.D. Myall (40:46):
Love that, I love that.
Any advice on revision.
Eric Smith (40:52):
Say yes to the stuff that works for you and just
remember again, it's the whole.
And say yes to the stuff thatworks for you and just remember
again, it's the whole.
We're trying to help you tellthe best version of your story
thing.
So stick with what works.
And when it comes to critiqueswith your colleagues or your
cohort or your MFA friends, tryto think about where they're
coming from with their critique,right, because you know you're
going to have some peoplecritiquing your books that maybe
(41:14):
don't read what you happen tobe writing, right?
That happens all the time.
Um, take what you can from it.
Uh, if it doesn't work for you,it's okay.
Like, I can't tell you how manytimes I have, like, a student
who's writing fantasy and no onein the cohort is writing a
fantasy novel, right, and thecritiques they get back are
usually so brutal and it's veryupsetting and we have to have
(41:36):
talks about it.
Take what works for you andeverything else with a sort of
grain of salt there.
That was me.
Denny S. Bryce (41:44):
It's the worst.
J.D. Myall (41:48):
But I hear they're getting more fantasy students.
Now I hear that the followingcohorts it's been excellent, I
will probably get you.
Eric Smith (41:55):
Then You're a fantasy student.
J.D. Myall (41:59):
How did you end up agenting in Canada?
Eric Smith (42:04):
So I started my publishing career at Quirk,
which is a publisher here inPhilly.
I was there for a pretty longtime, the agency opening at PS
literary, because I had done themarketing and publicity for two
of their clients at at my atthe publishing house.
So I reached out and I was likehey, you know, like I I I've
(42:25):
never been an agent before, butI've worked in publishing for a
long time.
I have books that I've written.
I think I'd be good at it.
Can we have a conversation?
And and they can we have aconversation?
And they wanted to talk to meand I have never been to the
office.
It's been eight years and I'venever gone to the office.
That's sort of how it happened.
It's the kind of career jumpyou see a lot of people make
(42:48):
when they become agents.
It's from sometimes they comefrom the author space, sometimes
they come from being a lawyerand sometimes they come from
having worked in publishing.
J.D. Myall (42:59):
Cool Is it?
Was it hard to learn?
Was it an adjustment?
Was it an easy process?
Eric Smith (43:03):
The adjustment period was more the like
financial constraints right solike agents work on commission
right so like got to startselling books to make it a
career.
So you know, I didn't reallysell my first books until a
couple of months in and thatstill that doesn't really
generate a salary right away.
So yeah, that part wasdifficult.
(43:23):
The getting to know editors andgetting to pitch books part.
That that part wasn't difficultbecause I already knew a bunch
of people.
It's pretty familiar with thepublishing industry and the
places the books couldpotentially go.
That part I don't want to sayit was easy, but it wasn't as
challenging okay.
J.D. Myall (43:42):
Is there anything about being part of an mfa
program and the realities ofpublishing that you think new
writers should know?
That we haven't covered.
Eric Smith (44:05):
Yet how is the mfa program the realities?
I don't know.
That's a really good question.
I don't think so.
Well, you know, let's talkabout the reality of publishing,
and do they have faculty andadvisors that are part of the
current business?
Do they have books with majorpublishers?
Do they have experience?
If that's not there, that's aproblem for that program, in my
(44:31):
opinion, and Drexel doesn't havethat problem, so that's not a
thing to potentially worry about.
I don't know if someone elseout there is watching this and
thinking about MFA programs.
That's the thing to look outfor.
J.D. Myall (44:42):
Love that, love that .
Any final advice or words ofwisdom to share?
Eric Smith (44:48):
Oh, just to take your time.
Anyone who's writing andworking on your thesis or
planning to enter a program likethis generally you have a good
two years to finish that book.
Take your time working on yourthesis or or planning to enter a
program like this.
You know, generally you have agood two years to finish that
book.
Take your time working on it.
You know this is the time toreally just I don't know let
that book grow and work withcritique partners and just
polish it up as much as you can.
(45:09):
Don't rush it.
Don't be that person that waitsthree months before graduation
and then you're madly bangingout your book.
Don't do that.
That defeats the purpose oflike working together.
So, uh, yeah, take your time,watch the potential ticking
clock there and and enjoy it,because these you know being in
(45:29):
this sort of mfa bubble herewhere you get to work so closely
with people that doesn't alwaysexist post-graduation and into
your career, like even for menow, like my 10th book came out
and now I'm working on somethingnew and I have to like email
all new critique partners,because all my buddies are in
different spaces in their careerand some don't have time and
(45:50):
some have too many kids and it'sjust, it's a whole thing.
So, uh, enjoy it.
Enjoy it while it's here, okay,all right, well, we will talk
soon.
J.D. Myall (45:57):
Yep have a blessed one you too.
Speaker 5 (45:59):
Bye.
That wraps up today's CraftChat Chronicles with JD Meyer.
Thanks for joining us.
If you liked the episode,please comment, subscribe and
share.
For show notes, writingworkshops and tips, head to
jdmayocom.
That's jdmayocom.
(46:21):
While you're there, join jd'smailing list for updates,
giveaways and more.
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