July 19, 2025 • 50 mins
What if the key to captivating storytelling lies not just in creativity but in the rigorous study of literature? Join us on Craft Chat Chronicles as we uncover the journey of an emerging author, who turned an unexpected collaboration with an agent in 2020 into a successful debut with Little Brown. Our guest takes us through the joys and challenges of traditional publishing, sharing how an English literature degree provided the foundational tools for their unique narrative rhythm and style, leading to the creation of their novel "Freshman Year."
Ever wonder what it takes to get a graphic novel manuscript noticed? Our guest reveals the meticulous process behind developing a pitch packet that stands out. Hear the inside scoop on crafting a 50-page document with rich illustrations and engaging character descriptions, and learn the crucial role humor and a strong core concept play in capturing the interest of agents. Through shared experiences and collaborative efforts, aspiring graphic novelists will gain practical tips for preparing a successful pitch and creating relatable, memorable characters.
Want to break into the illustration industry but don't know where to start? Listen as our guest recounts their unconventional yet successful path to securing an agent and launching their debut book. From effective networking strategies to handling rejections, this episode is packed with real-life advice for illustrators at any stage of their career. You'll hear about the emotional highs and lows, the importance of consistent practice, and the invaluable support from an artistic household that can transform dreams into reality. Tune in for an episode brimming with insights and encouragement for navigating the vibrant world of illustration.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to Craft Chat Chronicles, the go-to podcast
for tips on craftingbest-selling fiction.
Here at Craft Chat Chronicles,we bring you expert interviews,
insights and tips on writing,publishing and marketing.
Join the conversation andembark on a new chapter in your
(00:25):
writing journey.
For workshops, show notes andmore information, visit
JDMaihacom.
That's JDMaihalcom.
Sarah Mai (00:37):
Yeah, I do, and it's been a busy week.
I'm still at work, so if youhear anything, it's office noise
.
So yeah, it's.
It's been a big week so it'sbeen very fun.
J.D. Myall (00:47):
Exciting.
Tell me a little bit about yourpublishing journey.
Sarah Mai (00:52):
Yeah, so publishing journey oh boy, where do I even
start?
Okay, so I started in about 20,what year would that have been?
About 2020, officially, um,with my agent and she had me do
a sample for the cool code books, um, kind of right on as a like
(01:15):
um test period and, um, neitherof us were expecting anything
out of that, but we ended upsigning the project so, um.
So I worked on those two booksand then, kind of, while I was
working on those two books, wewere formulating, we were
putting together the pitch forfreshman year and then, I think
(01:37):
in 2020 also, we ended uppitching that to Chris Diatti,
vanna Little Brown, and thenthey picked it up and then I
finished that book in 2023 andthat's kind of been the, the
journey of the actual publishingpart, um, so you know, good, a
good three years in thetraditional publishing, yeah.
J.D. Myall (02:01):
What drew you to traditional publishing?
Sarah Mai (02:11):
I don't know if there was anything in particular.
I don't have a real preferencetowards traditional or
non-traditional publishing.
I really like especially incomics.
I really like self-published ora lot of these smaller boutique
publishing houses.
I think they do reallyinteresting work and there's a
(02:34):
lot more freedom, I think, inlike form, and you're not
beholden to like book formats asmuch.
I don't think there's anythingin particular and I it wasn't, I
guess, necessarily like a dreamto be traditionally published.
It just, you know, that's kindof where the project ended up,
um, but I think I'd be, I'mcurious to see kind of where my
journey with that goes.
Um, I might do someself-publishing or I might do
(02:56):
some kind of other um avenuesfor stuff in the future and
there's there's, you know, kindof a purpose for everything and,
um, every kind of avenue,avenue for getting your work out
there.
So yeah, we'll see, but yeah, Iguess no specific draw as far
as like big publishing houses go.
J.D. Myall (03:18):
Okay, how do you think your degree in English
literature influenced yourstorytelling and your style?
Sarah Mai (03:25):
do you think your degree in English literature
influenced your storytelling andyour style?
Well, I know a lot of advicefrom writers is that you need to
read a lot in order to write.
And I read a lot of differentstuff during my English degree
and I kind of gives you like agood basis for like how a story
is kind of structured and youget kind of a rhythm of what
something is kind of supposed tofeel like or, um, you kind of
(03:47):
get a basis for how you could dosomething.
Um, that definitely helped withthe writing process.
I actually did an English likeliterature analysis track, so I
didn't do a lot of creativewriting in college.
I kind of did that personally,um, and actually did.
It did still help because I wasstill doing all the noticing
and all the reading and it alsokind of changes your worldview.
(04:10):
So, you know, if I had tried towrite something when I was 18,
it would be totally differentthan what I would try to write
when I was out of college and Idon't think I would have been
tuned tuned into the same kindsof things as I did after my
degree.
And you also kind of develop asense of taste too.
So, um, you kind of are able topick out what you like and what
(04:32):
you don't like and, um, putthat into your own style too.
So, um, otherwise, like, justdeveloping the like rhythm in
life of reading and of writingin an English degree helps kind
of get you into the rhythm ofthat If you're going to try to
(04:52):
do it later, like many, manynights late, up late, you know,
writing papers helped me kind ofget to that point where I could
stay up late and try to clunkout a scene or something.
So, yeah, lots of rhythms, I'mtalking about rhythms a lot.
Clunk out a scene or something.
So, yeah, lots of rhythms, I'mtalking about rhythms a lot.
But yeah, you kind of get, getit into your body, the like
literature feeling, and itdefinitely helped.
(05:13):
And I don't think there's goingto, you know, I don't know if
there's going to be another timein my life where I am that deep
into reading all the time.
Like that was probably the mostintensive period of reading in
my life and, um, but who knows,maybe there'll be another time
where I read more.
J.D. Myall (05:29):
Tell me the story behind the story.
How did your debut novelfreshman year, come to be Um so?
Sarah Mai (05:36):
I had started writing it, um, my first semester,
sophomore year, in a class in agraphic novel class actually and
and um, it started as like a12-page comic called fish out of
water and it was just kind ofabout feeling like a fish that
sort of found itself on land,was flopping around and it it
was to do.
It was kind of fish themed, butit was to do with that first
(05:56):
year and feeling kind of like ina new environment, like how am
I going to do this?
And I I pitched it to the, or Ipresented it to the class and
then I could.
I got.
I saw this kind of like sparkof recognition in people's faces
and I got some feedback aboutit and it made me sort of like
feel energized in that momentthat, okay, maybe like there's
(06:21):
something there that peoplemight need to see about, like if
they Like there's somethingthere that people might need to
see about like if they went intotheir first year of school and
sort of like maybe sort ofstumbled in the entrance and
kind of didn't make all thehurdles, and so after that I
worked on kind of developing itslowly over college and then
(06:42):
when I got to like the stagewhere I was like am I doing this
for real?
Am I thinking about doingillustration as a career or
doing any of that?
Um, when it got to the agencypart, I um had about three
rounds of um developing thatpitch um until we got to the
publishing house.
So it had a good long runbefore it became what it
(07:04):
actually is house.
So it had a good long runbefore it became what it
actually is.
And I think that did help,because it's kind of a hard time
period to pitch marketing wise.
It's not quite teen, it's notquite adult.
That's kind of like part of thepoint too.
And like it took a lot to like,hone in like where were we
going to place our like tone andwhere were we going to place
(07:24):
like the style and where were wegoing to place um like the
style and um.
So yeah, it was about six yearsum, where it was kind of slowly
developing into what it becamebut, yeah, started in a class,
started graphic novel classthat's awesome.
J.D. Myall (07:37):
I have a a question um.
How does the submission processand all that go for the
illustrator side or the authorillustrator side?
Because you're the first authorillustrator I've interviewed.
You're the first authorillustrator.
Sarah Mai (07:55):
Yeah, as far as like publishing, getting it into
people's hands.
J.D. Myall (08:01):
Like what type of document, like what's the normal
form, and stuff like that.
For the other, the people whoaspire to be you that'll hear
what you're quoted on, and allthat good stuff.
Sarah Mai (08:11):
Yeah, this is super helpful information, because I
didn't know this.
It's so you create a pitchpacket and I don't know if it's
like this for everybody, butthis is how it was for me.
I wrote about like 50 pages ofa manuscript and then so it's
kind of like a play or a moviescript, and then I think it was
(08:33):
the first 15 to 20 pages Iillustrated in full, and then
okay, let me break this down.
J.D. Myall (08:43):
Was it like a PDF?
Sarah Mai (08:46):
and then, okay, let me break this down.
Was it like a pdf?
Yep, there's a pdf.
Sorry, I should create.
This is a document.
First, um 15 pages was fullyillustrated like how it'll look
in the end product.
The first three are about fullycolorized, so that's like the
actual end product.
Then it's like black line work.
Then you have the um, it'sabout five written scenes that
are fully written out like aplay, and then, um, some people
(09:08):
have their you know script allfully fleshed out.
We just did summaries to theend, um, some chapter summaries,
um, so it's like a 50 pagedocument.
And then, so it's a lot, it's apretty considerable document.
And then we also included, um apage of character descriptions
and drawings of all thecharacters, because they're not
(09:29):
all going to be in that.
You know, first 20 pagescharacter descriptions and then
like a big summary of the bookat the beginning and then like a
mock-up of what a cover mightlook like.
So there's a lot that goes intomaking the pitch.
It takes a very long time toget it to that finish point
where you can show it off, butit changed a lot after that
(09:51):
point.
And, yeah, so for the graphicnovels you do need to be pretty
far along in the developmentstage.
It's not like a novel, wherethe whole thing has to be
written essentially, but you dohave to put a pretty serious
packet together.
J.D. Myall (10:08):
So yeah, yeah.
And then you go to the agentwith the packet, yeah, so
sometimes you go to the yeah, itdepends.
Sarah Mai (10:14):
So sometimes you go to the agent with the packet, or
you.
I probably do that now.
Now that I've gone through thatphase, I'd probably start
working on the packet to beginwith.
Gone through that phase, I'dprobably start working on the
packet to begin with, um, butsometimes your agent helps you
put the packet together, um, andthen you pitch it to, uh, to
publishing houses, um, that wasthe thing that we ended up like
(10:35):
going through three rounds ofwas that, that packet?
Um, and you know it takes acouple months to put the packet
together.
So you know it's a pretty biglike time investment.
But, yes, yeah, I wish I hadknown that.
J.D. Myall (10:51):
Okay, what do you think you did right that helped
you become the debut novelistthat you're soon getting
recognized?
Sarah Mai (10:58):
I don't know, I'm wondering that myself, I don't
know, I'm wondering how myself,um, I don't know, uh, I think,
well, okay, realistically, Ithink I had there was like a
good, like a good core concept.
Um, and again, like I, I couldsee that like spark of
(11:18):
recognition in people and likethat spark meant to me that they
maybe hadn't seen somethinglike that specific story before
and that kind of encouraged meto to keep going into it.
And because it's like aboutit's like semi autobiographical,
it's very specific and I cankind of only use my voice for
(11:40):
that and like I think I like toput a lot of humor into my
writing.
It's just kind of it's the wayI talk, it's the way I think
about things.
It's like very integral to whoI am as a person, and so I think
the humor had a lot to do withit.
And maybe if the humor hadn'tbeen a big part of it, I don't
think this book would have madeit, and that that humor was like
(12:02):
baked into it right from thestart, in the pitch, in the like
proposal packet and all thosethings.
Um, so I think that thatprobably had to do something
with it.
Um, because people like tolaugh.
J.D. Myall (12:16):
So you know, voice, yeah, strong voice.
Are there any things that youthink are essential elements to
a good graphic novel?
Sarah Mai (12:26):
oh, oh well, I like so many different graphic novels
, so like something that'sessential.
This one thing might not beessential to another, like humor
might be essential to one book,but it's not, you know, heart
or something is essential toanother book.
Um, I think, like specificityis probably the one thing that
is most important, because Ikind of think about it like I
(12:47):
think like specificity isprobably the one thing that is
most important, because I kindof think about it, like I think
about a film where, like a lotof the time, I'm drawn to
something that is a veryparticular unique look or has,
you know, a very particularunique tone, and that
specificity makes the projectsmore memorable.
And so, if you can put a lot ofpersonal like detail into it,
(13:09):
even if it's a fictional, like,if it's things that you notice
or things that are important toyou, like that really like fills
up a book, like it makes itjust that extra level.
And yeah, there's so manydifferent genres where you could
do that, so there's not, um,yeah, yeah, yeah, just
(13:30):
specificity.
J.D. Myall (13:32):
I'm trying to hand it do you have any advice for
inspiring writers on creatingrelatable characters in graphic
novels?
Sarah Mai (13:42):
yeah, I mean um, novels.
Yeah, I mean you have to likenotice your friends and notice
yourself, notice things thatmake you and your friends unique
and make your like littlethings that they'll say little
quirks.
We all have those little thingsthat some of us like maybe me
(14:04):
we go on full long tangents.
Um, some people are very, youknow, concise and succinct and
they maybe pause before they saythings and like there's these
elements of like time.
You know there's kind of avisual and time element to
graphic novels and so you canshow those things.
You know, you can show ifsomeone is kind of stumbling
through their words or you canshow if they're maybe taking a
(14:24):
pause before they're going tosay something important or if
they're launching into it andlike I would just say, start
thinking about those things,about people, and then start
like writing them down, likewriting down something maybe
someone said to you that wasparticularly interesting.
I keep like a running tab in myphone on notes of um, just like
(14:49):
little phrases that I hear.
You know, people have theselittle things that they say that
are so interesting and they'relike I don't know where you got
that, or um, maybe it's likeregional or uh, maybe it's
something to like a family tradeor something, but that really
like brings characters to life.
And then, besides that, you canlike watch a lot of movies, or
(15:11):
you know it doesn't have justpeople, you know there's like
tones of different genres tooand you can pick up on that.
And but I think again, it'slike a lot of it comes from your
personal life and and what youthink is important and what you
think is like beautiful or funnyor interesting about the people
around you, and then take notes, yeah, Notice and take notes.
J.D. Myall (15:38):
How can you hook readers in the early pages of a
graphic novel?
Sarah Mai (15:43):
I don't know.
I guess you write the thingthat you have and then you hope
they are hooked.
Um, oh, what did I do?
Oh, um, my strategy for thiswas to be kind of blunt, like my
(16:03):
approach was to just like setit up as it was.
Um, at high school graduationit was like a day it happened.
And then I got home and I waslike, okay, now apparently this
is like the rest of my life andthat's like how it felt, and so
that's how I felt it wasappropriate to like start.
This was that I don't need toget into.
Like all of my high schoolexperiences, I don't need to get
(16:25):
into all those details rightnow.
All we need to know is likeplunk, here we are, rec
graduation.
Um, I think a good likein-meter res is like a classic
way to to get people into astory of um, here we are in this
moment and why are we in thismood and what is here.
And then I went into likestraight into like very personal
(16:47):
, like changing in my room withmy mom asking me like my, my
details of where I was goingthat night and telling me to be
safe, and like, just, if they Iguess there's no guarantee that
they'll be drawn in by that, butif you are drawn into that kind
of like domestic detail stuff,then maybe you'll be interested.
(17:07):
But yeah, I have no, that'scool, you just have to hope.
You just have to hope that it'sinteresting again.
J.D. Myall (17:16):
What tools and programs would you suggest
aspiring graphic artists?
Experiment and practice on.
Sarah Mai (17:24):
Oh, there's a lot.
I mean, there's so many optionsnow and there's even been more
options since I was in collegeand high school.
I used an app called Procreate,which is unfortunately named,
and that is great because youbuy it once.
It's relatively inexpensive fora drawing program.
(17:44):
I think you do have to have aniPad or a tablet um, but you buy
it once instead of asubscription packet, so you're
not paying $50 a month for um,like Adobe, you know,
subscription um, which is greatjust to kind of like get your
digital drawing thing rolling.
But besides that, like I used tobuy these um, I still use them
(18:07):
like a dollar 50 notebooks fromMuji and they're just little
white paper and um, justsketchbook paper, and I keep a
pen with me and I keep mynotebook with me and when I have
an idea um, and if I have thetime, I'll just scribble it down
.
And when I have an idea um, andif I have the time, I'll just
scribble it down.
And like, I think a big hurdleis just grabbing those thoughts
when you have them and gettingthem on a piece of paper,
(18:29):
because sometimes you have thethought and then it just
disappears, and so if you canjust kind of wrangle those
thoughts into a littlesketchbook and they don't have
to be anything perfect or good.
Um, that's like a big firststep is being able to translate
those ideas just into a littlesketch.
Everything past, then, is likesome people are really good at
(18:50):
inking, like I did a lot ofpracticing of inking on like a
Bristol pad or watercoloring.
You know, you'll choose yourmedium based on kind of where
you are in life.
I chose digital because I wasworking on like three books at
the same time and neededflexibility to just kind of jump
(19:10):
between those things and not bebeholden to like my desk or you
know, moving everything aroundand so there's so many options.
And start with something thatyou're attracted to and if you
don't like it or if you arefeeling frustrated with it,
don't feel like you have tostruggle through it.
You jump to the next thing, andthey don't have to be fancy.
(19:31):
And if you want to step up yourgame and get the next thing up,
you can do that when you feellike it.
But simple If the simplerthings are, the easier you feel
like it.
But, um, simple if the simplerthings are, the easier you make
it for yourself to actually dothe thing, then you'll actually
do it.
And if it's digital, it'sdigital.
If it's paper, it's paper, andum, just yeah, you just need to
(19:54):
do it.
And it doesn't doesn't matternecessarily what it is and um,
I'm a big proponent of like anymoment you feel the impulse, do
it with what you have.
And if it's lined paper, it'slined paper, and if it's grid,
it's grid, or if it's on yourcomputer, it's that and um, I
love it's all good.
J.D. Myall (20:14):
Yeah, I love that you collaborated on the cool
code.
What was the collaborativeprocess like for the author?
Illustrator, collaboration,what's?
Sarah Mai (20:26):
that, like you know, it's interesting because I
didn't really realize this umwhen I was going into it.
But there's actually not a lotof conversation between the
author and the illustrator um,or there wasn't for this project
.
It all kind of goes through theart director and the editing
team, and so my real onlycommunication with her was like
(20:47):
saying hi on LinkedIn andgetting her notes on, like the
documents every once in a while,but she didn't, you know, say
anything particular.
Or you know, to me specifically, the editing team did a really
good job of I don't theymight've been getting input from
(21:07):
her, but I'm not sure makingthose notes on things just like
we imagine this to be a littlehappier or maybe we want this to
look a certain way.
You know, they'll, they'll giveme notes and those might be
from the author, but a lot ofthe time I think they're just
from the design team.
But anyway, everything goesthrough the editing team.
We go through multiple rounds ofdrawing and sketching and the
(21:33):
script changes at least oncefrom the first iteration to the
second.
Yeah, it's a lot of acrobatdocuments with a lot of notes in
them, just a lot of annotations, and then we kind of, you know,
enjoy the final producttogether.
But there are some projects Iknow where there is more
(21:56):
collaboration between the authorand the illustrator, and that's
usually when they have choseneach other or they're like a
team.
But we were put together justthrough agencies and and through
publishing houses and thatmight've had to do with the
specific kind of contract,because it was a work for hire
contract, so the script had beenwritten already and they just
(22:16):
were finding someone to tofinish it.
So that's cool.
J.D. Myall (22:20):
Yeah.
What advice do you have forsomeone who wants to be in your
position?
Now for the aspiring graphicnovelists.
Sarah Mai (22:28):
So take care of your body, because it is a very
physical activity and it'simportant that you keep your
wrist and your neck and yourback healthy so that you can
keep doing.
It's like an endurance sport,like you have to stay and that's
(22:49):
, you know, coming from personalexperience of, like, totally
screwing up my back even beforeI had started the book um, makes
it a lot easier if you're notin pain.
And then just again, like as Iwas saying before, whenever you
have the impulse and sometimeswhen you don't just get your
(23:09):
thoughts out on paper, becausethis book was really created
from, like, all those littlescraps of all the notes and all
the little doodles that I'd donefor years, and it was kind of a
culmination of those skills andthose notes and those thoughts,
and you kind of are able totumble that stone into something
polished over time, and you canonly do that over time if
(23:32):
you're practicing.
And so, just for the literalcreation of a book, it's about
developing that endurance anddeveloping that like discipline
to sit down when you feel likeit, but also when you don't feel
like it, and then, um, justgetting the drawing done and um,
(23:54):
because graphic novels are solong and they're such like
intense process, such an intenseprocess.
It's very important to likepractice, that long-term focus,
and I know a lot of peoplealready do that, because you
know there's an element of likecompulsion.
(24:17):
When it comes to drawing andlike comics specifically, I feel
like and yeah, lean into intoit, but not so far that you hurt
your back, like I did, or yourwrist.
J.D. Myall (24:29):
Yeah, so what's your debut?
Um, oh, before we get to that,how did you get your agent?
Did you do the traditionalsnail mail or not snail mail?
I, I'm old, traditional slushpile.
Sarah Mai (24:44):
I think they do snail mail still.
I was told to do that.
So in a lucky and pretty rarecase, I come from like a family
where illustration is a familytrade.
So I had an email of Lori, myagent, and I was kind of like
gently encouraged to just sendher an idea to see if she'd be
interested at all.
She was not, you know, shedidn't need to take me on it was
very nice of her to do that.
(25:06):
But it took a couple more yearsuntil I could join the agency.
And it was similar in the wayof the traditional thing, in the
way that I sent her all mysamples and I did the packet and
I had to have the book pitch.
But obviously I had known hername already Um.
So I think half the struggle ishunting down the names of
people to know who to sendthings to Um.
(25:27):
But so it was a couple moreyears until I joined her and
then she brought me on um to trya sample for that, that cool
code series, as a um trial run,kind of just like a six month
run, Cause I was still incollege, um, a little bit of a
risk.
And then um started on thatseries and then we developed the
pitch together.
So it was, it took a coupleyears but it, you know, it was
(25:50):
nice to have that email for sureI think it's really cool that
you're from a family ofillustrators.
Yeah, it's really special and Ithink again, like I was talking
about with that routine thing, Igrew up in a family where
people were constantly drawingand it wasn't strange to see
people at the dinner tabledoodling or drawing each other,
and so just having that likespirit of practice I think was
(26:12):
like the most important thing.
And then, um, yeah, yeah, justhaving that uh normalness of
drawing is like was reallyunique and I feel really
thankful for that.
J.D. Myall (26:27):
My kids are really strong drawers and that's why I
was asking what tools to havethem practice on, especially
like my.
Well, all of them, butespecially my 16 year olds.
Like she's really, reallygifted, yeah, and I have no clue
where it came from.
I always got them suppliescause they like it, but I'm a
word girl, right?
I don't draw, so I don't knowwhere that gift came from,
(26:47):
wasn't me?
Sarah Mai (26:49):
I mean that's amazing , like I guess I don't really
know.
I'm like I guess it probablycame from my like I don't know,
you know, because there's somepeople in my family they have no
inclination for drawing at alland so I guess I never know.
But having, like you know, mostof my tools when I was growing
up, drawing was just likeprinter paper and, uh, like
Ticonderoga yellow pencil, like,and then, if your parent just
(27:12):
gives you the time and, you know, response to your artwork, I
think that's like, as a parent,one of the best things you can
do of just being like.
I'm noticing a specific thingabout your drawing like I really
like that and that's just likefor a kid.
I think it's really important.
It's not always like you know,you can, you can buy every
single thing for them and theyou know they're probably not
(27:32):
going to be able to use all ofit and so just, you know,
encouraging those I'm.
What kind of artwork does your?
I don't?
I know this is a big tangent,but what kind of do you do?
J.D. Myall (27:41):
she does some painting, but she mostly does
drawing.
She likes um charcoal, shelikes pencils.
She does a little bit ofeverything.
That's awesome.
Yeah, I think she'll dographics one day too, because
she she really loves graphicnovels and stuff like that.
I tried to get her to sit inhere so she could hear you, but
she's like, keep going.
Sarah Mai (27:59):
You won't even know you're there keep going yeah, I
love like I don't know, it's sofun to think about like that age
and um, yeah, just keep it upand don't like, if you hit a
slump, like I went through somereally weird phases of style and
where I was like tryingsomething new, it was so rough
and like just not resembleanything at all that I wanted,
(28:21):
and again it's just like, justkeep working through it.
So, just you know, keep anotebook by you.
Just you know every littlethought you can just get it out
and eventually it'll turn intosomething that you recognize as
like what you hoped it would belike.
Or I mean, there's things thatI still can't do and um, it'll
(28:44):
again, it'll just be likepractice, just keep practicing
it.
Um, but it's awesome thatyou're like encouraging it and
excited about it.
It's like, yeah, it's exciting,you're excited about it.
J.D. Myall (28:54):
Your art's great too , by the way.
I was looking at your websiteand stuff oh thanks what has
debut year been like?
What's that experience?
Sarah Mai (29:02):
oh, it's been like really interesting.
I kind of wasn't sure what I wasgoing to feel like when the
book came out, because it's sopersonal, and it's been really
rewarding to hear things backfrom people and like people I
went to college with, or justfriends, or going on Goodreads
(29:23):
and looking at reviews which Ishould not be doing but it's
really, really rewarding to hearpeople say like yes, this is
what it felt like.
Like yes, this is pretty spot onto like the loneliness or this
is pretty spot on to the anxietyor the funniness or you know
like, because in a way, I thinkwe all kind of felt like we had
(29:48):
had a unique year, but we wereall kind of like having these
similar struggles together andkind of silently.
And so, um, while I had knownthat over the past couple of
years, it's just nice to finally, um, be able to share the kind
of culmination of work that hadhappened.
And, um, it's been likeemotional in and, yeah, it's
(30:11):
been emotional and rewarding andkind of beautiful and, um, I
feel like everything's a like acontrasting emotion of like, oh,
anxiety that it's out, and thenlike relief that it's out, and
then like I'm super zipped up orI'm super tired and um, because
(30:32):
I think it's that kind of bookwhere it's personal.
That's that's why.
But um, really cool, it's beenreally cool.
You have a launch party I did.
I had a little launch party ata bookstore I used to work at
called Wild Rumpus, here inMinneapolis, and then I'll
probably have a smallergathering of friends here in a
couple weeks, but a busy monthfor everybody.
(30:53):
So I just got to wrangle thetroops to get together and just
finally talk about it.
J.D. Myall (31:00):
Is there anything you wish you knew before your
debut experience?
That you?
Now know that you.
Sarah Mai (31:09):
Oh well, in the way that I guess in the same way
that kind of in the book, likethere was, there were a lot of
anxieties that I had aboutthings that did not come to pass
journeys or haven't come topass yet, I guess, juries out on
(31:31):
some of the, some of the things.
But, um, you cannot feed everysingle anxiety because, again,
not not everything will happenthat you think will and, um, and
like you don't have to, noteverything needs to be thought
(31:55):
through a thousand times beforeit is done.
There were some like chaptersthat I wrote that just kind of
flowed out and then they werekind of perfect and they didn't
really need any help and some ofthem I just chiseled away at
forever and then eventually kindof came back to the first
thought and that was thefreshest.
And then eventually kind ofcame back to the first thought,
and that was the freshest.
And sometimes it's just you haveto trust that something is
(32:18):
going to work out and then,besides that something I would
tell me just it will be done,the work will be done at one
point and don't worry, you'llmake your deadlines, and good on
you for making your deadlines,but people will be nice to you,
even if you don't, um, but I didso, that, yeah, just you know
(32:39):
it.
There were a lot of things Iworried about and and now that I
know them, moving forward, um,I kind of know, like how
organized I need to be for x orhow prepared I need to be by
this stage, um, but everyproject is new.
So you know, some of that stuffmight not be applicable if I do
another project and you justhave to ride the wave, get to
(33:01):
ride the wave of the process andit, you know, follow through
and not everything is going tobe perfect, but it will be and
that's most important.
J.D. Myall (33:09):
So yeah, very true, true, um.
What are you working oncurrently?
Sarah Mai (33:16):
so I'm kind of like in a transitional phase with
work stuff.
I am at a new job.
I got an in-person job whichhas been really exciting, um,
and fun.
It's a totally differentindustry and not related to art,
um, which I'm really enjoying.
But I have started the veryearly beginnings of a graphic
(33:38):
novel.
I don't know if I can, I don'tknow if I should say anything,
because then the it'll run awayfrom me, but it's a project that
I'm excited about and is ismore of a fictional story than
than this.
It's, yeah, it's a fictionalstory and fiction's not
something I've completed aproject in yet.
(33:58):
I've done short stories andthings, but I'm excited about
the thought of it and I'm yeah,I'm in those kind of early
stages of putting together thePost-it notes and the note cards
and pulling all the littlenotes from my phone and, yeah,
that kind of earlyorganizational stage and it's
fun.
There's no, I don't have thepressure of needing to sell it
right now because I have astable job and that's very.
(34:21):
It's giving me some peace.
So now I can just have some fun.
But what else am I working on?
I'm finishing a painting thathas been sitting in my office
for a full year that I started ayear ago, so is it close enough
that we can see it or not?
no, it's at home, I wish, but,um, I will post it on my
(34:42):
Instagram when it's done.
I shouldn't say it'll be donesoon, but hopefully it'll be
done soon awesome.
J.D. Myall (34:51):
Um, let me think.
Let me think.
I think of what we didn't cover.
What's the best piece of careeradvice that you've got from
your family of illustrators?
Sarah Mai (35:05):
oh, okay.
So illustration is an industrythat has changed a lot and will
continue to change a lot.
We're in a new phase of AI artand of computer-generated things
, and it's an industry that isreally susceptible to economic
impact and just that ebb andflow of the arts and
(35:30):
entertainment industry.
So the best piece of advice islike roll with the punches.
If you know if it's getting tootough, it doesn't mean anything
about you.
If you have to go get a job,like it doesn't mean anything If
you're having a hard timeselling your art in a at a place
(35:52):
where they used to just buy,buy, buy, buy, buy.
If you send out a thousandemails and you get no responses,
it's, it's just how theindustry is.
And like to know that that islike part of like the the course
of a career was reallyimportant and I think on one
(36:13):
hand, it kind of made them notdiscourage me from from pursuing
it, but like they were worriedfor me because they know how
hard it was.
They were like just letting youknow it's going to be tricky
and like we love you but wewould love if you had health
insurance, you know.
(36:33):
So like just their like empathywas great and knowing that
they've had ebbs and flows intheir careers where they've gone
and done something completelydifferent.
Um, or they have to.
You have to completely reinvent.
You have to reinvent and do adifferent style.
You have to approach differentlike kinds of products you can
(36:55):
do.
Maybe you go from editorialmagazine to like children's
products.
You, you need to be able topivot and like it doesn't.
It's not a reflection on, likethe quality of your work, it's
just a reflection of a market.
And if that becomes painful orthat becomes too difficult, it
(37:19):
is totally, totally fine to justgo do something else and do
personal work and then maybe ina few years or a few months,
like there will be someone inthe market that's ready for you
again.
That is like the best adviceI've ever gotten, because I
think like it could be sodiscouraging, like I've sent a
(37:40):
thousand notes on linkedin topeople and no response.
You know, like it's um, it'shard to hear no, but it is a
huge part of of everything andum, that was yeah, just knowing
that they've heard no a thousandtimes and they're still they're
, they still love it and theystill do it personally and it's
still meaningful to them and, uh, I will still, I will like even
(38:04):
, I will understand that moreand more and more as I go
throughout and I've not evenbeen, I've only been in the
industry for like three yearsbut I'm like that is so
important to know about becauseit can be, you know, it can feel
so personal, but not really not.
Oh no, did I lose you?
(38:30):
Oh, I lost you there for asecond.
J.D. Myall (38:40):
Yeah, I lost you too , Okay, okay.
The last thing I heard was thatwas the most important thing to
know about.
I think that's it.
Sarah Mai (38:49):
I think I can stop there.
J.D. Myall (38:50):
Okay, love that, love that.
It.
I think I can stop there.
Okay, love that, love that.
I had a question on the tip ofmy tongue and then I refroze on
my side.
I guess I froze on your sideand it vanished.
Now I'm trying to find it again.
Let me think what was it?
Oh yeah, I remember now it wasthe submission process.
(39:18):
Did you get a lot of no's inthe submission process, or was
that a relatively smooth process?
Sarah Mai (39:21):
for you it was relatively smooth.
Again, it needed a lot of workbefore we got to that point.
I think it was on a couple ofeditors desks.
I think this is like cosmicluck, because my editor, who I
ended up working with, was likethey were looking to fill out
(39:42):
their graphic novel collection,which not all places you're
trying to do because they'remore expensive projects for
publishers to do than like apicture book, for example.
They were looking for a graphicnovel in that age group, ya,
and the Christy, the head of thepublishing house, had a child
(40:03):
that was going to be in theirfreshman year of college.
J.D. Myall (40:07):
And so like serendipitous.
Sarah Mai (40:09):
Yeah, I was like wow.
The second they told me that Iwas like okay, okay, I'm so
lucky, like I don't ever have todo anything again, because that
was just like that's nice.
Um, so, yeah, I'm really luckyand like I have, um, I've tried
to sell a project since then andlike timing wasn't right.
So, um, I feel as though thatwas the one book that just
(40:33):
needed, you know, perhaps neededto be done and, um, I'll keep
you know trying in the future,but that process was like
weirdly smooth and as like scaryas it felt to go through the
like contract signing process.
J.D. Myall (40:49):
Um, overall it was, it was pretty smooth and how
long did that take, because I'veheard it can take up to four
months to get your contract ohyeah, um god.
Sarah Mai (40:59):
Well, it was like very early covid, and so
publishing houses were kind ofscrambling and they're kind of
figuring out how they're goingto do remote stuff.
So it was a little delayed.
I want to.
Oh god, the period was such ablur.
I want to say it was probablylike, like, probably like three
(41:21):
or four months.
Um, it could be longer orshorter yeah, it was yeah, four
months sounds about right.
That's how it was kind of for um, the last two projects too, and
again, this might have been acovid thing, but there was a
decent gap between when thatcontract was signed and when we
started working.
So, um, just, I guess, um, Ihad advice about that.
(41:45):
It's just, you know you canstart working on your project
and you don't need to wait forthem until you start, and uh, um
, just be ready for you knowwhen they jump in and give you a
deadline.
J.D. Myall (41:56):
So, um, yes, yeah, yeah, about four months probably
okay, um, how did you handlethe rejection you spoke about,
uh, when you talked about, like,when you send the emails and
you don't get responses, theperiod when you didn't know that
was going to all work out inthe end, how did you know?
Sarah Mai (42:18):
oh god, I don't know.
I like I probably just went ona lot of walks.
I guess you just have to likebe hopeful.
I mean, yeah, I just yeah, Ithink I I got into swimming laps
in a period.
There I was like I just neededsome sort of like meditative
process and I'm like still inthat phase of sending a lot of
(42:39):
emails.
And one thing that's helpful tothink about, like this is a
mindset thing, but it's like howwould it feel to you to receive
a note from somebody onLinkedIn and you've got a full
plate, you've got a full, youknow full-time job and you've
got a lot to do, and someone'sreaching out to you and asking
for something.
You are not beholden to them atall, like you do not have to
(43:01):
say anything to them at all.
And because I know howoverworked a lot of people are,
I just am like it just needs toreach one person who's like in a
good mood on a Friday.
They have an opening mailbox.
They haven't.
You know, they don't have toomuch to do.
(43:22):
I just try to keep in mind, likewhat people's lives actually
look like when you're sendingthem all this stuff, because
they they're not just, they'renot like an evil villain sitting
at their desk saying like no, Ijust want to crush your dreams.
Like you can't illustrate forus, like that's not really what
it's like and again, I think alot of it is just timing and
repetition.
Also, you might not be sendingthe email to the right person.
(43:46):
Like art editors move around alot, so it could be that like
they've left the company, likethey don't even work there
anymore and um, you need to goto the new registry or whatever
and check it out.
Um I don't have like a success,um, like a sure way to success
for reaching people.
But I know a lot of people alsogo to conferences and that's a
(44:07):
good way just to talk to peoplein person, because that's when
they're actually looking andgoing to those career fest and
conference things.
That's a surefire way to atleast meet somebody in person
and then they can put a name tothe face and and remember your
work.
But how did I do?
Yeah, sorry, that was tangent.
J.D. Myall (44:25):
Yes, I go for a walk and I swim and I remind myself
so for clarity sake, cause I Ithink you explained this, but I
just want to make sure I heardit right.
So, because you keep mentioning, you keep going back to sending
the emails.
So in the emails you have, like, your pitch for whatever
project you're talking about anddo you attach your proposal
then, or is it just the pitchand a couple of samples?
(44:46):
What do you put in the email.
Sarah Mai (44:48):
It depends on what you're trying to do.
So for me, most of the pitchingI've done is for, like,
editorial illustration.
So I'll send them my portfolio,like my website, and then I
will make a fly sheet which isjust like a PDF of some of my
favorite artwork that I thinkgoes with their vibe and a good
(45:09):
way to contact you.
So it's just, it's reallysimple.
Just keep it as simple aspossible for people just to
click at it, look at it, thinkabout it and then respond to you
and that's just like somethingthat you.
Those are things that you makewhen you're kind of in your
marketing.
Your marketing hat is on makingfly sheets, making care sheets,
(45:32):
making marketing.
Your marketing hat is on um,making fly sheets, making care
sheets, making um, look books,um, just make it really easy for
people to see your artwork andthen respond to you.
Um, pitching wise, I don't know.
Yeah, it's mostly editor.
Um, I do the same thing forproduct type illustration.
So if I'm contacting a toycompany, it's the same thing,
just toy specific illustrations,or um, patterns, or tailor,
(45:56):
tailor it to who you're actuallysending it to and then make
sure that the note soundspersonal enough, like hi, I, um,
I found your company in Xmagazine and I um really enjoyed
this work by blah, I think itreally.
You know we have a good wewould.
I think we'd work togethergreat.
(46:16):
I have a style that I thinkkind of resonates with your
company and, you know, try andmake it as specific as possible
so that they know you're notjust sending out this same email
to a thousand people becauseyou are contacting a real person
and you do like.
Building those personalconnections are important and
people want to work with afriendly person and they're
hoping you, too, are going to bethe perfect person to work with
(46:38):
.
So, yeah, tailoring thoseemails for what you're actually
trying to do, yeah, that'simportant.
And have a website.
You have to have a website.
J.D. Myall (46:49):
I love it, I love it , I love it.
You've given tons ofinformation for aspiring graphic
novelists and.
I appreciate the wisdom thatyou've shared and best of luck.
Or break a leg, I don't knowhow you say it in the graphic,
yeah, either is fine.
I didn't say yeah you don'tneed my love, though you are
going to explore.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
Thank, you, great personality a great spirit and
great talent.
J.D. Myall (47:13):
Oh my god, that's nice I'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 4 (47:15):
Thank you so much all right bye bye that wraps up
today's craft chat chronicleswith jd mayor.
Thanks for joining us.
If you like the episode, pleasecomment, subscribe and share.
For show notes, writingworkshops and tips, head to
(47:38):
JDMeyercom.
That's JDMeyercom.
While you're there, join JD'smailing list for updates,
giveaways and more.
Welcome to Craft Chat Chronicles, the go-to podcast
for tips on craftingbest-selling fiction.
Here at Craft Chat Chronicles,we bring you expert interviews,
insights and tips on writing,publishing and marketing.
Join the conversation andembark on a new chapter in your
(00:25):
writing journey.
For workshops, show notes andmore information, visit
JDMaihacom.
That's JDMaihalcom.
Sarah Mai (00:37):
Yeah, I do, and it's been a busy week.
I'm still at work, so if youhear anything, it's office noise
.
So yeah, it's.
It's been a big week so it'sbeen very fun.
J.D. Myall (00:47):
Exciting.
Tell me a little bit about yourpublishing journey.
Sarah Mai (00:52):
Yeah, so publishing journey oh boy, where do I even
start?
Okay, so I started in about 20,what year would that have been?
About 2020, officially, um,with my agent and she had me do
a sample for the cool code books, um, kind of right on as a like
(01:15):
um test period and, um, neitherof us were expecting anything
out of that, but we ended upsigning the project so, um.
So I worked on those two booksand then, kind of, while I was
working on those two books, wewere formulating, we were
putting together the pitch forfreshman year and then, I think
(01:37):
in 2020 also, we ended uppitching that to Chris Diatti,
vanna Little Brown, and thenthey picked it up and then I
finished that book in 2023 andthat's kind of been the, the
journey of the actual publishingpart, um, so you know, good, a
good three years in thetraditional publishing, yeah.
J.D. Myall (02:01):
What drew you to traditional publishing?
Sarah Mai (02:11):
I don't know if there was anything in particular.
I don't have a real preferencetowards traditional or
non-traditional publishing.
I really like especially incomics.
I really like self-published ora lot of these smaller boutique
publishing houses.
I think they do reallyinteresting work and there's a
(02:34):
lot more freedom, I think, inlike form, and you're not
beholden to like book formats asmuch.
I don't think there's anythingin particular and I it wasn't, I
guess, necessarily like a dreamto be traditionally published.
It just, you know, that's kindof where the project ended up,
um, but I think I'd be, I'mcurious to see kind of where my
journey with that goes.
Um, I might do someself-publishing or I might do
(02:56):
some kind of other um avenuesfor stuff in the future and
there's there's, you know, kindof a purpose for everything and,
um, every kind of avenue,avenue for getting your work out
there.
So yeah, we'll see, but yeah, Iguess no specific draw as far
as like big publishing houses go.
J.D. Myall (03:18):
Okay, how do you think your degree in English
literature influenced yourstorytelling and your style?
Sarah Mai (03:25):
do you think your degree in English literature
influenced your storytelling andyour style?
Well, I know a lot of advicefrom writers is that you need to
read a lot in order to write.
And I read a lot of differentstuff during my English degree
and I kind of gives you like agood basis for like how a story
is kind of structured and youget kind of a rhythm of what
something is kind of supposed tofeel like or, um, you kind of
(03:47):
get a basis for how you could dosomething.
Um, that definitely helped withthe writing process.
I actually did an English likeliterature analysis track, so I
didn't do a lot of creativewriting in college.
I kind of did that personally,um, and actually did.
It did still help because I wasstill doing all the noticing
and all the reading and it alsokind of changes your worldview.
(04:10):
So, you know, if I had tried towrite something when I was 18,
it would be totally differentthan what I would try to write
when I was out of college and Idon't think I would have been
tuned tuned into the same kindsof things as I did after my
degree.
And you also kind of develop asense of taste too.
So, um, you kind of are able topick out what you like and what
(04:32):
you don't like and, um, putthat into your own style too.
So, um, otherwise, like, justdeveloping the like rhythm in
life of reading and of writingin an English degree helps kind
of get you into the rhythm ofthat If you're going to try to
(04:52):
do it later, like many, manynights late, up late, you know,
writing papers helped me kind ofget to that point where I could
stay up late and try to clunkout a scene or something.
So, yeah, lots of rhythms, I'mtalking about rhythms a lot.
Clunk out a scene or something.
So, yeah, lots of rhythms, I'mtalking about rhythms a lot.
But yeah, you kind of get, getit into your body, the like
literature feeling, and itdefinitely helped.
(05:13):
And I don't think there's goingto, you know, I don't know if
there's going to be another timein my life where I am that deep
into reading all the time.
Like that was probably the mostintensive period of reading in
my life and, um, but who knows,maybe there'll be another time
where I read more.
J.D. Myall (05:29):
Tell me the story behind the story.
How did your debut novelfreshman year, come to be Um so?
Sarah Mai (05:36):
I had started writing it, um, my first semester,
sophomore year, in a class in agraphic novel class actually and
and um, it started as like a12-page comic called fish out of
water and it was just kind ofabout feeling like a fish that
sort of found itself on land,was flopping around and it it
was to do.
It was kind of fish themed, butit was to do with that first
(05:56):
year and feeling kind of like ina new environment, like how am
I going to do this?
And I I pitched it to the, or Ipresented it to the class and
then I could.
I got.
I saw this kind of like sparkof recognition in people's faces
and I got some feedback aboutit and it made me sort of like
feel energized in that momentthat, okay, maybe like there's
(06:21):
something there that peoplemight need to see about, like if
they Like there's somethingthere that people might need to
see about like if they went intotheir first year of school and
sort of like maybe sort ofstumbled in the entrance and
kind of didn't make all thehurdles, and so after that I
worked on kind of developing itslowly over college and then
(06:42):
when I got to like the stagewhere I was like am I doing this
for real?
Am I thinking about doingillustration as a career or
doing any of that?
Um, when it got to the agencypart, I um had about three
rounds of um developing thatpitch um until we got to the
publishing house.
So it had a good long runbefore it became what it
(07:04):
actually is house.
So it had a good long runbefore it became what it
actually is.
And I think that did help,because it's kind of a hard time
period to pitch marketing wise.
It's not quite teen, it's notquite adult.
That's kind of like part of thepoint too.
And like it took a lot to like,hone in like where were we
going to place our like tone andwhere were we going to place
(07:24):
like the style and where were wegoing to place um like the
style and um.
So yeah, it was about six yearsum, where it was kind of slowly
developing into what it becamebut, yeah, started in a class,
started graphic novel classthat's awesome.
J.D. Myall (07:37):
I have a a question um.
How does the submission processand all that go for the
illustrator side or the authorillustrator side?
Because you're the first authorillustrator I've interviewed.
You're the first authorillustrator.
Sarah Mai (07:55):
Yeah, as far as like publishing, getting it into
people's hands.
J.D. Myall (08:01):
Like what type of document, like what's the normal
form, and stuff like that.
For the other, the people whoaspire to be you that'll hear
what you're quoted on, and allthat good stuff.
Sarah Mai (08:11):
Yeah, this is super helpful information, because I
didn't know this.
It's so you create a pitchpacket and I don't know if it's
like this for everybody, butthis is how it was for me.
I wrote about like 50 pages ofa manuscript and then so it's
kind of like a play or a moviescript, and then I think it was
(08:33):
the first 15 to 20 pages Iillustrated in full, and then
okay, let me break this down.
J.D. Myall (08:43):
Was it like a PDF?
Sarah Mai (08:46):
and then, okay, let me break this down.
Was it like a pdf?
Yep, there's a pdf.
Sorry, I should create.
This is a document.
First, um 15 pages was fullyillustrated like how it'll look
in the end product.
The first three are about fullycolorized, so that's like the
actual end product.
Then it's like black line work.
Then you have the um, it'sabout five written scenes that
are fully written out like aplay, and then, um, some people
(09:08):
have their you know script allfully fleshed out.
We just did summaries to theend, um, some chapter summaries,
um, so it's like a 50 pagedocument.
And then, so it's a lot, it's apretty considerable document.
And then we also included, um apage of character descriptions
and drawings of all thecharacters, because they're not
(09:29):
all going to be in that.
You know, first 20 pagescharacter descriptions and then
like a big summary of the bookat the beginning and then like a
mock-up of what a cover mightlook like.
So there's a lot that goes intomaking the pitch.
It takes a very long time toget it to that finish point
where you can show it off, butit changed a lot after that
(09:51):
point.
And, yeah, so for the graphicnovels you do need to be pretty
far along in the developmentstage.
It's not like a novel, wherethe whole thing has to be
written essentially, but you dohave to put a pretty serious
packet together.
J.D. Myall (10:08):
So yeah, yeah.
And then you go to the agentwith the packet, yeah, so
sometimes you go to the yeah, itdepends.
Sarah Mai (10:14):
So sometimes you go to the agent with the packet, or
you.
I probably do that now.
Now that I've gone through thatphase, I'd probably start
working on the packet to beginwith.
Gone through that phase, I'dprobably start working on the
packet to begin with, um, butsometimes your agent helps you
put the packet together, um, andthen you pitch it to, uh, to
publishing houses, um, that wasthe thing that we ended up like
(10:35):
going through three rounds ofwas that, that packet?
Um, and you know it takes acouple months to put the packet
together.
So you know it's a pretty biglike time investment.
But, yes, yeah, I wish I hadknown that.
J.D. Myall (10:51):
Okay, what do you think you did right that helped
you become the debut novelistthat you're soon getting
recognized?
Sarah Mai (10:58):
I don't know, I'm wondering that myself, I don't
know, I'm wondering how myself,um, I don't know, uh, I think,
well, okay, realistically, Ithink I had there was like a
good, like a good core concept.
Um, and again, like I, I couldsee that like spark of
(11:18):
recognition in people and likethat spark meant to me that they
maybe hadn't seen somethinglike that specific story before
and that kind of encouraged meto to keep going into it.
And because it's like aboutit's like semi autobiographical,
it's very specific and I cankind of only use my voice for
(11:40):
that and like I think I like toput a lot of humor into my
writing.
It's just kind of it's the wayI talk, it's the way I think
about things.
It's like very integral to whoI am as a person, and so I think
the humor had a lot to do withit.
And maybe if the humor hadn'tbeen a big part of it, I don't
think this book would have madeit, and that that humor was like
(12:02):
baked into it right from thestart, in the pitch, in the like
proposal packet and all thosethings.
Um, so I think that thatprobably had to do something
with it.
Um, because people like tolaugh.
J.D. Myall (12:16):
So you know, voice, yeah, strong voice.
Are there any things that youthink are essential elements to
a good graphic novel?
Sarah Mai (12:26):
oh, oh well, I like so many different graphic novels
, so like something that'sessential.
This one thing might not beessential to another, like humor
might be essential to one book,but it's not, you know, heart
or something is essential toanother book.
Um, I think, like specificityis probably the one thing that
is most important, because Ikind of think about it like I
(12:47):
think like specificity isprobably the one thing that is
most important, because I kindof think about it, like I think
about a film where, like a lotof the time, I'm drawn to
something that is a veryparticular unique look or has,
you know, a very particularunique tone, and that
specificity makes the projectsmore memorable.
And so, if you can put a lot ofpersonal like detail into it,
(13:09):
even if it's a fictional, like,if it's things that you notice
or things that are important toyou, like that really like fills
up a book, like it makes itjust that extra level.
And yeah, there's so manydifferent genres where you could
do that, so there's not, um,yeah, yeah, yeah, just
(13:30):
specificity.
J.D. Myall (13:32):
I'm trying to hand it do you have any advice for
inspiring writers on creatingrelatable characters in graphic
novels?
Sarah Mai (13:42):
yeah, I mean um, novels.
Yeah, I mean you have to likenotice your friends and notice
yourself, notice things thatmake you and your friends unique
and make your like littlethings that they'll say little
quirks.
We all have those little thingsthat some of us like maybe me
(14:04):
we go on full long tangents.
Um, some people are very, youknow, concise and succinct and
they maybe pause before they saythings and like there's these
elements of like time.
You know there's kind of avisual and time element to
graphic novels and so you canshow those things.
You know, you can show ifsomeone is kind of stumbling
through their words or you canshow if they're maybe taking a
(14:24):
pause before they're going tosay something important or if
they're launching into it andlike I would just say, start
thinking about those things,about people, and then start
like writing them down, likewriting down something maybe
someone said to you that wasparticularly interesting.
I keep like a running tab in myphone on notes of um, just like
(14:49):
little phrases that I hear.
You know, people have theselittle things that they say that
are so interesting and they'relike I don't know where you got
that, or um, maybe it's likeregional or uh, maybe it's
something to like a family tradeor something, but that really
like brings characters to life.
And then, besides that, you canlike watch a lot of movies, or
(15:11):
you know it doesn't have justpeople, you know there's like
tones of different genres tooand you can pick up on that.
And but I think again, it'slike a lot of it comes from your
personal life and and what youthink is important and what you
think is like beautiful or funnyor interesting about the people
around you, and then take notes, yeah, Notice and take notes.
J.D. Myall (15:38):
How can you hook readers in the early pages of a
graphic novel?
Sarah Mai (15:43):
I don't know.
I guess you write the thingthat you have and then you hope
they are hooked.
Um, oh, what did I do?
Oh, um, my strategy for thiswas to be kind of blunt, like my
(16:03):
approach was to just like setit up as it was.
Um, at high school graduationit was like a day it happened.
And then I got home and I waslike, okay, now apparently this
is like the rest of my life andthat's like how it felt, and so
that's how I felt it wasappropriate to like start.
This was that I don't need toget into.
Like all of my high schoolexperiences, I don't need to get
(16:25):
into all those details rightnow.
All we need to know is likeplunk, here we are, rec
graduation.
Um, I think a good likein-meter res is like a classic
way to to get people into astory of um, here we are in this
moment and why are we in thismood and what is here.
And then I went into likestraight into like very personal
(16:47):
, like changing in my room withmy mom asking me like my, my
details of where I was goingthat night and telling me to be
safe, and like, just, if they Iguess there's no guarantee that
they'll be drawn in by that, butif you are drawn into that kind
of like domestic detail stuff,then maybe you'll be interested.
(17:07):
But yeah, I have no, that'scool, you just have to hope.
You just have to hope that it'sinteresting again.
J.D. Myall (17:16):
What tools and programs would you suggest
aspiring graphic artists?
Experiment and practice on.
Sarah Mai (17:24):
Oh, there's a lot.
I mean, there's so many optionsnow and there's even been more
options since I was in collegeand high school.
I used an app called Procreate,which is unfortunately named,
and that is great because youbuy it once.
It's relatively inexpensive fora drawing program.
(17:44):
I think you do have to have aniPad or a tablet um, but you buy
it once instead of asubscription packet, so you're
not paying $50 a month for um,like Adobe, you know,
subscription um, which is greatjust to kind of like get your
digital drawing thing rolling.
But besides that, like I used tobuy these um, I still use them
(18:07):
like a dollar 50 notebooks fromMuji and they're just little
white paper and um, justsketchbook paper, and I keep a
pen with me and I keep mynotebook with me and when I have
an idea um, and if I have thetime, I'll just scribble it down
.
And when I have an idea um, andif I have the time, I'll just
scribble it down.
And like, I think a big hurdleis just grabbing those thoughts
when you have them and gettingthem on a piece of paper,
(18:29):
because sometimes you have thethought and then it just
disappears, and so if you canjust kind of wrangle those
thoughts into a littlesketchbook and they don't have
to be anything perfect or good.
Um, that's like a big firststep is being able to translate
those ideas just into a littlesketch.
Everything past, then, is likesome people are really good at
(18:50):
inking, like I did a lot ofpracticing of inking on like a
Bristol pad or watercoloring.
You know, you'll choose yourmedium based on kind of where
you are in life.
I chose digital because I wasworking on like three books at
the same time and neededflexibility to just kind of jump
(19:10):
between those things and not bebeholden to like my desk or you
know, moving everything aroundand so there's so many options.
And start with something thatyou're attracted to and if you
don't like it or if you arefeeling frustrated with it,
don't feel like you have tostruggle through it.
You jump to the next thing, andthey don't have to be fancy.
(19:31):
And if you want to step up yourgame and get the next thing up,
you can do that when you feellike it.
But simple If the simplerthings are, the easier you feel
like it.
But, um, simple if the simplerthings are, the easier you make
it for yourself to actually dothe thing, then you'll actually
do it.
And if it's digital, it'sdigital.
If it's paper, it's paper, andum, just yeah, you just need to
(19:54):
do it.
And it doesn't doesn't matternecessarily what it is and um,
I'm a big proponent of like anymoment you feel the impulse, do
it with what you have.
And if it's lined paper, it'slined paper, and if it's grid,
it's grid, or if it's on yourcomputer, it's that and um, I
love it's all good.
J.D. Myall (20:14):
Yeah, I love that you collaborated on the cool
code.
What was the collaborativeprocess like for the author?
Illustrator, collaboration,what's?
Sarah Mai (20:26):
that, like you know, it's interesting because I
didn't really realize this umwhen I was going into it.
But there's actually not a lotof conversation between the
author and the illustrator um,or there wasn't for this project
.
It all kind of goes through theart director and the editing
team, and so my real onlycommunication with her was like
(20:47):
saying hi on LinkedIn andgetting her notes on, like the
documents every once in a while,but she didn't, you know, say
anything particular.
Or you know, to me specifically, the editing team did a really
good job of I don't theymight've been getting input from
(21:07):
her, but I'm not sure makingthose notes on things just like
we imagine this to be a littlehappier or maybe we want this to
look a certain way.
You know, they'll, they'll giveme notes and those might be
from the author, but a lot ofthe time I think they're just
from the design team.
But anyway, everything goesthrough the editing team.
We go through multiple rounds ofdrawing and sketching and the
(21:33):
script changes at least oncefrom the first iteration to the
second.
Yeah, it's a lot of acrobatdocuments with a lot of notes in
them, just a lot of annotations, and then we kind of, you know,
enjoy the final producttogether.
But there are some projects Iknow where there is more
(21:56):
collaboration between the authorand the illustrator, and that's
usually when they have choseneach other or they're like a
team.
But we were put together justthrough agencies and and through
publishing houses and thatmight've had to do with the
specific kind of contract,because it was a work for hire
contract, so the script had beenwritten already and they just
(22:16):
were finding someone to tofinish it.
So that's cool.
J.D. Myall (22:20):
Yeah.
What advice do you have forsomeone who wants to be in your
position?
Now for the aspiring graphicnovelists.
Sarah Mai (22:28):
So take care of your body, because it is a very
physical activity and it'simportant that you keep your
wrist and your neck and yourback healthy so that you can
keep doing.
It's like an endurance sport,like you have to stay and that's
(22:49):
, you know, coming from personalexperience of, like, totally
screwing up my back even beforeI had started the book um, makes
it a lot easier if you're notin pain.
And then just again, like as Iwas saying before, whenever you
have the impulse and sometimeswhen you don't just get your
(23:09):
thoughts out on paper, becausethis book was really created
from, like, all those littlescraps of all the notes and all
the little doodles that I'd donefor years, and it was kind of a
culmination of those skills andthose notes and those thoughts,
and you kind of are able totumble that stone into something
polished over time, and you canonly do that over time if
(23:32):
you're practicing.
And so, just for the literalcreation of a book, it's about
developing that endurance anddeveloping that like discipline
to sit down when you feel likeit, but also when you don't feel
like it, and then, um, justgetting the drawing done and um,
(23:54):
because graphic novels are solong and they're such like
intense process, such an intenseprocess.
It's very important to likepractice, that long-term focus,
and I know a lot of peoplealready do that, because you
know there's an element of likecompulsion.
(24:17):
When it comes to drawing andlike comics specifically, I feel
like and yeah, lean into intoit, but not so far that you hurt
your back, like I did, or yourwrist.
J.D. Myall (24:29):
Yeah, so what's your debut?
Um, oh, before we get to that,how did you get your agent?
Did you do the traditionalsnail mail or not snail mail?
I, I'm old, traditional slushpile.
Sarah Mai (24:44):
I think they do snail mail still.
I was told to do that.
So in a lucky and pretty rarecase, I come from like a family
where illustration is a familytrade.
So I had an email of Lori, myagent, and I was kind of like
gently encouraged to just sendher an idea to see if she'd be
interested at all.
She was not, you know, shedidn't need to take me on it was
very nice of her to do that.
(25:06):
But it took a couple more yearsuntil I could join the agency.
And it was similar in the wayof the traditional thing, in the
way that I sent her all mysamples and I did the packet and
I had to have the book pitch.
But obviously I had known hername already Um.
So I think half the struggle ishunting down the names of
people to know who to sendthings to Um.
(25:27):
But so it was a couple moreyears until I joined her and
then she brought me on um to trya sample for that, that cool
code series, as a um trial run,kind of just like a six month
run, Cause I was still incollege, um, a little bit of a
risk.
And then um started on thatseries and then we developed the
pitch together.
So it was, it took a coupleyears but it, you know, it was
(25:50):
nice to have that email for sureI think it's really cool that
you're from a family ofillustrators.
Yeah, it's really special and Ithink again, like I was talking
about with that routine thing, Igrew up in a family where
people were constantly drawingand it wasn't strange to see
people at the dinner tabledoodling or drawing each other,
and so just having that likespirit of practice I think was
(26:12):
like the most important thing.
And then, um, yeah, yeah, justhaving that uh normalness of
drawing is like was reallyunique and I feel really
thankful for that.
J.D. Myall (26:27):
My kids are really strong drawers and that's why I
was asking what tools to havethem practice on, especially
like my.
Well, all of them, butespecially my 16 year olds.
Like she's really, reallygifted, yeah, and I have no clue
where it came from.
I always got them suppliescause they like it, but I'm a
word girl, right?
I don't draw, so I don't knowwhere that gift came from,
(26:47):
wasn't me?
Sarah Mai (26:49):
I mean that's amazing , like I guess I don't really
know.
I'm like I guess it probablycame from my like I don't know,
you know, because there's somepeople in my family they have no
inclination for drawing at alland so I guess I never know.
But having, like you know, mostof my tools when I was growing
up, drawing was just likeprinter paper and, uh, like
Ticonderoga yellow pencil, like,and then, if your parent just
(27:12):
gives you the time and, you know, response to your artwork, I
think that's like, as a parent,one of the best things you can
do of just being like.
I'm noticing a specific thingabout your drawing like I really
like that and that's just likefor a kid.
I think it's really important.
It's not always like you know,you can, you can buy every
single thing for them and theyou know they're probably not
(27:32):
going to be able to use all ofit and so just, you know,
encouraging those I'm.
What kind of artwork does your?
I don't?
I know this is a big tangent,but what kind of do you do?
J.D. Myall (27:41):
she does some painting, but she mostly does
drawing.
She likes um charcoal, shelikes pencils.
She does a little bit ofeverything.
That's awesome.
Yeah, I think she'll dographics one day too, because
she she really loves graphicnovels and stuff like that.
I tried to get her to sit inhere so she could hear you, but
she's like, keep going.
Sarah Mai (27:59):
You won't even know you're there keep going yeah, I
love like I don't know, it's sofun to think about like that age
and um, yeah, just keep it upand don't like, if you hit a
slump, like I went through somereally weird phases of style and
where I was like tryingsomething new, it was so rough
and like just not resembleanything at all that I wanted,
(28:21):
and again it's just like, justkeep working through it.
So, just you know, keep anotebook by you.
Just you know every littlethought you can just get it out
and eventually it'll turn intosomething that you recognize as
like what you hoped it would belike.
Or I mean, there's things thatI still can't do and um, it'll
(28:44):
again, it'll just be likepractice, just keep practicing
it.
Um, but it's awesome thatyou're like encouraging it and
excited about it.
It's like, yeah, it's exciting,you're excited about it.
J.D. Myall (28:54):
Your art's great too , by the way.
I was looking at your websiteand stuff oh thanks what has
debut year been like?
What's that experience?
Sarah Mai (29:02):
oh, it's been like really interesting.
I kind of wasn't sure what I wasgoing to feel like when the
book came out, because it's sopersonal, and it's been really
rewarding to hear things backfrom people and like people I
went to college with, or justfriends, or going on Goodreads
(29:23):
and looking at reviews which Ishould not be doing but it's
really, really rewarding to hearpeople say like yes, this is
what it felt like.
Like yes, this is pretty spot onto like the loneliness or this
is pretty spot on to the anxietyor the funniness or you know
like, because in a way, I thinkwe all kind of felt like we had
(29:48):
had a unique year, but we wereall kind of like having these
similar struggles together andkind of silently.
And so, um, while I had knownthat over the past couple of
years, it's just nice to finally, um, be able to share the kind
of culmination of work that hadhappened.
And, um, it's been likeemotional in and, yeah, it's
(30:11):
been emotional and rewarding andkind of beautiful and, um, I
feel like everything's a like acontrasting emotion of like, oh,
anxiety that it's out, and thenlike relief that it's out, and
then like I'm super zipped up orI'm super tired and um, because
(30:32):
I think it's that kind of bookwhere it's personal.
That's that's why.
But um, really cool, it's beenreally cool.
You have a launch party I did.
I had a little launch party ata bookstore I used to work at
called Wild Rumpus, here inMinneapolis, and then I'll
probably have a smallergathering of friends here in a
couple weeks, but a busy monthfor everybody.
(30:53):
So I just got to wrangle thetroops to get together and just
finally talk about it.
J.D. Myall (31:00):
Is there anything you wish you knew before your
debut experience?
That you?
Now know that you.
Sarah Mai (31:09):
Oh well, in the way that I guess in the same way
that kind of in the book, likethere was, there were a lot of
anxieties that I had aboutthings that did not come to pass
journeys or haven't come topass yet, I guess, juries out on
(31:31):
some of the, some of the things.
But, um, you cannot feed everysingle anxiety because, again,
not not everything will happenthat you think will and, um, and
like you don't have to, noteverything needs to be thought
(31:55):
through a thousand times beforeit is done.
There were some like chaptersthat I wrote that just kind of
flowed out and then they werekind of perfect and they didn't
really need any help and some ofthem I just chiseled away at
forever and then eventually kindof came back to the first
thought and that was thefreshest.
And then eventually kind ofcame back to the first thought,
and that was the freshest.
And sometimes it's just you haveto trust that something is
(32:18):
going to work out and then,besides that something I would
tell me just it will be done,the work will be done at one
point and don't worry, you'llmake your deadlines, and good on
you for making your deadlines,but people will be nice to you,
even if you don't, um, but I didso, that, yeah, just you know
(32:39):
it.
There were a lot of things Iworried about and and now that I
know them, moving forward, um,I kind of know, like how
organized I need to be for x orhow prepared I need to be by
this stage, um, but everyproject is new.
So you know, some of that stuffmight not be applicable if I do
another project and you justhave to ride the wave, get to
(33:01):
ride the wave of the process andit, you know, follow through
and not everything is going tobe perfect, but it will be and
that's most important.
J.D. Myall (33:09):
So yeah, very true, true, um.
What are you working oncurrently?
Sarah Mai (33:16):
so I'm kind of like in a transitional phase with
work stuff.
I am at a new job.
I got an in-person job whichhas been really exciting, um,
and fun.
It's a totally differentindustry and not related to art,
um, which I'm really enjoying.
But I have started the veryearly beginnings of a graphic
(33:38):
novel.
I don't know if I can, I don'tknow if I should say anything,
because then the it'll run awayfrom me, but it's a project that
I'm excited about and is ismore of a fictional story than
than this.
It's, yeah, it's a fictionalstory and fiction's not
something I've completed aproject in yet.
(33:58):
I've done short stories andthings, but I'm excited about
the thought of it and I'm yeah,I'm in those kind of early
stages of putting together thePost-it notes and the note cards
and pulling all the littlenotes from my phone and, yeah,
that kind of earlyorganizational stage and it's
fun.
There's no, I don't have thepressure of needing to sell it
right now because I have astable job and that's very.
(34:21):
It's giving me some peace.
So now I can just have some fun.
But what else am I working on?
I'm finishing a painting thathas been sitting in my office
for a full year that I started ayear ago, so is it close enough
that we can see it or not?
no, it's at home, I wish, but,um, I will post it on my
(34:42):
Instagram when it's done.
I shouldn't say it'll be donesoon, but hopefully it'll be
done soon awesome.
J.D. Myall (34:51):
Um, let me think.
Let me think.
I think of what we didn't cover.
What's the best piece of careeradvice that you've got from
your family of illustrators?
Sarah Mai (35:05):
oh, okay.
So illustration is an industrythat has changed a lot and will
continue to change a lot.
We're in a new phase of AI artand of computer-generated things
, and it's an industry that isreally susceptible to economic
impact and just that ebb andflow of the arts and
(35:30):
entertainment industry.
So the best piece of advice islike roll with the punches.
If you know if it's getting tootough, it doesn't mean anything
about you.
If you have to go get a job,like it doesn't mean anything If
you're having a hard timeselling your art in a at a place
(35:52):
where they used to just buy,buy, buy, buy, buy.
If you send out a thousandemails and you get no responses,
it's, it's just how theindustry is.
And like to know that that islike part of like the the course
of a career was reallyimportant and I think on one
(36:13):
hand, it kind of made them notdiscourage me from from pursuing
it, but like they were worriedfor me because they know how
hard it was.
They were like just letting youknow it's going to be tricky
and like we love you but wewould love if you had health
insurance, you know.
(36:33):
So like just their like empathywas great and knowing that
they've had ebbs and flows intheir careers where they've gone
and done something completelydifferent.
Um, or they have to.
You have to completely reinvent.
You have to reinvent and do adifferent style.
You have to approach differentlike kinds of products you can
(36:55):
do.
Maybe you go from editorialmagazine to like children's
products.
You, you need to be able topivot and like it doesn't.
It's not a reflection on, likethe quality of your work, it's
just a reflection of a market.
And if that becomes painful orthat becomes too difficult, it
(37:19):
is totally, totally fine to justgo do something else and do
personal work and then maybe ina few years or a few months,
like there will be someone inthe market that's ready for you
again.
That is like the best adviceI've ever gotten, because I
think like it could be sodiscouraging, like I've sent a
(37:40):
thousand notes on linkedin topeople and no response.
You know, like it's um, it'shard to hear no, but it is a
huge part of of everything andum, that was yeah, just knowing
that they've heard no a thousandtimes and they're still they're
, they still love it and theystill do it personally and it's
still meaningful to them and, uh, I will still, I will like even
(38:04):
, I will understand that moreand more and more as I go
throughout and I've not evenbeen, I've only been in the
industry for like three yearsbut I'm like that is so
important to know about becauseit can be, you know, it can feel
so personal, but not really not.
Oh no, did I lose you?
(38:30):
Oh, I lost you there for asecond.
J.D. Myall (38:40):
Yeah, I lost you too , Okay, okay.
The last thing I heard was thatwas the most important thing to
know about.
I think that's it.
Sarah Mai (38:49):
I think I can stop there.
J.D. Myall (38:50):
Okay, love that, love that.
It.
I think I can stop there.
Okay, love that, love that.
I had a question on the tip ofmy tongue and then I refroze on
my side.
I guess I froze on your sideand it vanished.
Now I'm trying to find it again.
Let me think what was it?
Oh yeah, I remember now it wasthe submission process.
(39:18):
Did you get a lot of no's inthe submission process, or was
that a relatively smooth process?
Sarah Mai (39:21):
for you it was relatively smooth.
Again, it needed a lot of workbefore we got to that point.
I think it was on a couple ofeditors desks.
I think this is like cosmicluck, because my editor, who I
ended up working with, was likethey were looking to fill out
(39:42):
their graphic novel collection,which not all places you're
trying to do because they'remore expensive projects for
publishers to do than like apicture book, for example.
They were looking for a graphicnovel in that age group, ya,
and the Christy, the head of thepublishing house, had a child
(40:03):
that was going to be in theirfreshman year of college.
J.D. Myall (40:07):
And so like serendipitous.
Sarah Mai (40:09):
Yeah, I was like wow.
The second they told me that Iwas like okay, okay, I'm so
lucky, like I don't ever have todo anything again, because that
was just like that's nice.
Um, so, yeah, I'm really luckyand like I have, um, I've tried
to sell a project since then andlike timing wasn't right.
So, um, I feel as though thatwas the one book that just
(40:33):
needed, you know, perhaps neededto be done and, um, I'll keep
you know trying in the future,but that process was like
weirdly smooth and as like scaryas it felt to go through the
like contract signing process.
J.D. Myall (40:49):
Um, overall it was, it was pretty smooth and how
long did that take, because I'veheard it can take up to four
months to get your contract ohyeah, um god.
Sarah Mai (40:59):
Well, it was like very early covid, and so
publishing houses were kind ofscrambling and they're kind of
figuring out how they're goingto do remote stuff.
So it was a little delayed.
I want to.
Oh god, the period was such ablur.
I want to say it was probablylike, like, probably like three
(41:21):
or four months.
Um, it could be longer orshorter yeah, it was yeah, four
months sounds about right.
That's how it was kind of for um, the last two projects too, and
again, this might have been acovid thing, but there was a
decent gap between when thatcontract was signed and when we
started working.
So, um, just, I guess, um, Ihad advice about that.
(41:45):
It's just, you know you canstart working on your project
and you don't need to wait forthem until you start, and uh, um
, just be ready for you knowwhen they jump in and give you a
deadline.
J.D. Myall (41:56):
So, um, yes, yeah, yeah, about four months probably
okay, um, how did you handlethe rejection you spoke about,
uh, when you talked about, like,when you send the emails and
you don't get responses, theperiod when you didn't know that
was going to all work out inthe end, how did you know?
Sarah Mai (42:18):
oh god, I don't know.
I like I probably just went ona lot of walks.
I guess you just have to likebe hopeful.
I mean, yeah, I just yeah, Ithink I I got into swimming laps
in a period.
There I was like I just neededsome sort of like meditative
process and I'm like still inthat phase of sending a lot of
(42:39):
emails.
And one thing that's helpful tothink about, like this is a
mindset thing, but it's like howwould it feel to you to receive
a note from somebody onLinkedIn and you've got a full
plate, you've got a full, youknow full-time job and you've
got a lot to do, and someone'sreaching out to you and asking
for something.
You are not beholden to them atall, like you do not have to
(43:01):
say anything to them at all.
And because I know howoverworked a lot of people are,
I just am like it just needs toreach one person who's like in a
good mood on a Friday.
They have an opening mailbox.
They haven't.
You know, they don't have toomuch to do.
(43:22):
I just try to keep in mind, likewhat people's lives actually
look like when you're sendingthem all this stuff, because
they they're not just, they'renot like an evil villain sitting
at their desk saying like no, Ijust want to crush your dreams.
Like you can't illustrate forus, like that's not really what
it's like and again, I think alot of it is just timing and
repetition.
Also, you might not be sendingthe email to the right person.
(43:46):
Like art editors move around alot, so it could be that like
they've left the company, likethey don't even work there
anymore and um, you need to goto the new registry or whatever
and check it out.
Um I don't have like a success,um, like a sure way to success
for reaching people.
But I know a lot of people alsogo to conferences and that's a
(44:07):
good way just to talk to peoplein person, because that's when
they're actually looking andgoing to those career fest and
conference things.
That's a surefire way to atleast meet somebody in person
and then they can put a name tothe face and and remember your
work.
But how did I do?
Yeah, sorry, that was tangent.
J.D. Myall (44:25):
Yes, I go for a walk and I swim and I remind myself
so for clarity sake, cause I Ithink you explained this, but I
just want to make sure I heardit right.
So, because you keep mentioning, you keep going back to sending
the emails.
So in the emails you have, like, your pitch for whatever
project you're talking about anddo you attach your proposal
then, or is it just the pitchand a couple of samples?
(44:46):
What do you put in the email.
Sarah Mai (44:48):
It depends on what you're trying to do.
So for me, most of the pitchingI've done is for, like,
editorial illustration.
So I'll send them my portfolio,like my website, and then I
will make a fly sheet which isjust like a PDF of some of my
favorite artwork that I thinkgoes with their vibe and a good
(45:09):
way to contact you.
So it's just, it's reallysimple.
Just keep it as simple aspossible for people just to
click at it, look at it, thinkabout it and then respond to you
and that's just like somethingthat you.
Those are things that you makewhen you're kind of in your
marketing.
Your marketing hat is on makingfly sheets, making care sheets,
(45:32):
making marketing.
Your marketing hat is on um,making fly sheets, making care
sheets, making um, look books,um, just make it really easy for
people to see your artwork andthen respond to you.
Um, pitching wise, I don't know.
Yeah, it's mostly editor.
Um, I do the same thing forproduct type illustration.
So if I'm contacting a toycompany, it's the same thing,
just toy specific illustrations,or um, patterns, or tailor,
(45:56):
tailor it to who you're actuallysending it to and then make
sure that the note soundspersonal enough, like hi, I, um,
I found your company in Xmagazine and I um really enjoyed
this work by blah, I think itreally.
You know we have a good wewould.
I think we'd work togethergreat.
(46:16):
I have a style that I thinkkind of resonates with your
company and, you know, try andmake it as specific as possible
so that they know you're notjust sending out this same email
to a thousand people becauseyou are contacting a real person
and you do like.
Building those personalconnections are important and
people want to work with afriendly person and they're
hoping you, too, are going to bethe perfect person to work with
(46:38):
.
So, yeah, tailoring thoseemails for what you're actually
trying to do, yeah, that'simportant.
And have a website.
You have to have a website.
J.D. Myall (46:49):
I love it, I love it , I love it.
You've given tons ofinformation for aspiring graphic
novelists and.
I appreciate the wisdom thatyou've shared and best of luck.
Or break a leg, I don't knowhow you say it in the graphic,
yeah, either is fine.
I didn't say yeah you don'tneed my love, though you are
going to explore.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
Thank, you, great personality a great spirit and
great talent.
J.D. Myall (47:13):
Oh my god, that's nice I'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 4 (47:15):
Thank you so much all right bye bye that wraps up
today's craft chat chronicleswith jd mayor.
Thanks for joining us.
If you like the episode, pleasecomment, subscribe and share.
For show notes, writingworkshops and tips, head to
(47:38):
JDMeyercom.
That's JDMeyercom.
While you're there, join JD'smailing list for updates,
giveaways and more.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!