How did a script editor in the UK television and film industry transform into a best-selling author? Join us on Craft Chat Chronicles as we sit down with Holly Race, the remarkable mind behind the debut adult fantasy novel "Six of Crowns." Holly takes us on her riveting journey, candidly discussing her tumultuous transition from script editing to writing, including the challenges she faced launching her YA trilogy during lockdown. Discover how her passion for Tudor history and a fiercely feminist reimagining of Henry VIII's wives led to her securing a significant book deal.
Holly shares the emotional rollercoaster of securing a literary agent and selling her book. Feel the highs and lows as she recounts her first offer of representation, the nerve-wracking moments reaching out to her top-choice agent, and the exhilarating overnight read that culminated in a pivotal meeting in London. Dive into the nuts and bolts of crafting compelling retellings, capturing iconic moments with a modern twist, and keeping readers hooked from start to finish.
From the excitement of seeing her book cover for the first time to the essential support network of fellow writers, Holly’s story is packed with inspiration for aspiring authors. Learn about the delicate balance between passion and marketability, and pick up creative social media strategies to promote your work. Plus, get a glimpse into Holly's unique life living in a historical Bridgeton era house and her future writing projects, including a glimpse into her next big ideas in both adult and YA fantasy novels.
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Keywords: script editor, writing tips, publishing, UK television, film industry, best-selling author, Craft Chat Chronicles, Holly Race, debut adult fantasy, Six of Crowns, writing challenges, YA trilogy, lockdown launch, Tudor history, feminist reimagining, Henry VIII's wives, book deal, literary agent, representation offer, retellings, modern twist, writer support network, passion vs. marketability, social media strategies, historical fiction, future writing projects, adult fantasy, YA fantasy novels.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to Craft Chat Chronicles, the go-to podcast
for tips on craftingbest-selling fiction.
Here at Craft Chat Chronicles,we bring you expert interviews,
insights and tips on writing,publishing and marketing.
Join the conversation andembark on a new chapter in your
(00:26):
writing journey.
For workshops, show notes andmore information, visit
jdmyallcom.
That's jdmyallcom.
Here's.
J.D. Myall (00:36):
Holly Race.
Holly writes fantasy with apolitical edge.
Orbit has recently preemptedher Tudor Queens fantasy in a
six-figure three-book deal.
This is her adult novel debut.
It's called Six of Crowns.
It's a fantasy reimagining ofHenry VIII's wives.
(00:57):
That's fiercely feminist.
Today, holly's going to talkabout writing, publishing, what
it's like to debut in the adultworld of writing now and much,
much more.
So if you want to learn alittle about writing craft from
somebody who just recently solda book in a six-figure
(01:17):
three-book deal, here's theplace.
So listen and learn, and Hollywill talk to you all about
publishing, her debut processand so much more.
Enjoy Season two, episode twoof Craft Chat Chronicles.
Holly Race (01:30):
Hello, hello, how are you?
I'm all right, how are youDoing?
J.D. Myall (01:34):
well, very good, very good, so you're in the UK.
Holly Race (01:47):
Yes, yes, indeed, yeah.
How is it over where you wereabout to you?
I forget what we're about to.
Est time zone is.
J.D. Myall (01:55):
Georgia.
It's like New York time.
Holly Race (01:58):
Okay, okay, cool.
Never been to Georgia.
I've been to New York, butnever Georgia.
so tell me about your lifebefore books uh, I, I spent
(02:20):
about 10-15 years working inkind of TV and film as a script
editor.
So like I don't think there'sreally a strong equivalent over
in the US in kind of Hollywood,but, um, script editors and
development executives in the UKsort of come up with ideas for
TV things, um, and find writersand talent and kind of pitch to
(02:44):
broadcasters and channels, so Iguess it would be a producer
over in the US.
But yeah, it's like developmentexecutive script editors over
here.
So I spent about a decade doingthat for various companies like
Aardman Animations, who do theWallace and Gromit films, and
Sean Sheep and working titlefilms, and then Red Planet
(03:05):
Pictures, uh, who produce acrime drama called Death in
Paradise, which I think has madeit over to the US.
Um, but yeah, so that's what Iwas doing before before becoming
an author.
Um got made redundant back in2017 and a couple of weeks later
found out I was pregnant, waslike, oh well, no one's gonna
(03:27):
give me a job now, so I may aswell focus on writing this book.
I've had this idea for um andthen kind of never went back
that's awesome.
J.D. Myall (03:36):
Um, how tell me the story behind the story?
How did your current novel cometo be?
Holly Race (03:41):
um, current novel.
Basically, I had a ya trilogythat got uh published in the uk,
basically over lockdown.
So the first one came outduring what was the first
lockdown here in 2020, and thensecond, the next two books in
2021, 2022 and kind of dead onarrival.
(04:03):
Basically, um, thanks tolockdown, and, uh, it was a bit
disheartening having spent solong writing them.
And so I kind of sat down andthought, right, think about what
stories you you love, um andthe, the kind of topics you love
, and think about what might beactually commercial and stand a
(04:27):
chance of kind of getting abigger deal.
And I've always been a massiveTudor nerd and so I was like, oh
, I wonder if there's a way ofkind of doing some kind of
fantasy feminist retelling ofSix Wives of Henry VIII.
And given the number ofretellings of kind of Greek
myths out there, I was like, oh,I wonder whether this could be
(04:50):
kind of the next thing, a stepbeyond that.
And so, yeah, that was kind ofhow the idea was born.
It was very much born out of avery dark place where I thought
that my career was completelyover.
I'd just been dumped by anagent after three weeks after
signing with them, and so I waslike, oh, looking quite bleak
right now, but maybe, yeah,think about what could kind of
(05:15):
rejuvenate your career.
J.D. Myall (05:17):
Love that.
How did you get your firstagent?
Holly Race (05:20):
First agent was through a thing called the Faber
Academy, which I don't know ifit's that well known over in the
US, but Faber books publisherover here and they run lots of
writing courses, 12-monthwriting course in London and at
the end of it they kind of throwyou into a room with a load of
(05:47):
agents and you have to read ascene out of your work in
progress and off the back ofthat I had a couple of agents
email me and ask to see thewhole manuscript.
So when I finished it I sent itto them and kind of only them
and got a couple of offers andwent with one of them.
And got a couple of offers andwent with one of them.
(06:08):
Essentially so very, verysmooth process that did not
repeat itself over the comingyears.
J.D. Myall (06:13):
And with your second agent.
How did you get to your currentagent?
Holly Race (06:17):
My current agent is not my second agent.
So my first agent ended upmoving to set up his own agency
and I ended up staying with hisassistant because I really liked
her and I yeah, I kind of shehad been the one sort of taking
care of me most, so I stayedwith her.
Then she ended up being maderedundant from her role and
(06:44):
leaving and I kind of got handedover to a third agent at that
agency who didn't pick me.
I didn't pick them.
It was like, yeah, this is fine, but not long-term.
And then, when I was out ofcontract with my YA trilogy, I
sort of got back in touch withthe second agent and she had
landed at a new agency.
But it kind of didn't have thevibe that I was looking for.
(07:05):
It sort of represented verydifferent books from the kind of
books I wanted to write.
So I sort of said I wasn'tgoing to move in the end.
So I then approached an agentwho I knew had read my first YA
book and seemed to be doingreally exciting things and had a
(07:26):
meeting with them and they saidthat they'd love to represent
me.
So I signed with them and thenthree weeks later, before we'd
even really worked together atall.
They phoned me up and were likeactually I've had second
thoughts, I'm really sorry it'snot gonna work.
Um, and that was when I uh hadthe idea for Six Wild Crowns my
my Tudor fantasy and just wentkind of did the querying the
(07:51):
proper way.
I suppose um sent it out toabout 15 agents, I think.
Um, when, when I kind of got itto a place I was happy with it
and got I think it was somethinglike 12 full manuscript
requests and then eight offersof representation in the end.
So yeah, it was um nice to havethat sort of like little ego
(08:14):
boost after being dumped.
J.D. Myall (08:15):
Basically do you remember any of your um query of
the pitch part yeah, I do, I'vegot my.
Holly Race (08:22):
I do have my query letter here actually.
Um, where is it?
Here we go.
So I I pitched it as a feministfantasy retelling at the six
wives of henry the eighth, seton an island ruled by a king who
must marry six queens in orderto protect his kingdom.
When queen boleyn realizes thatsomething is amiss with the
(08:43):
magic of the island, she and theother queens must overcome
their differences and themanipulations of the king and
his and his advisors to takeback their power.
Um, so that was kind of myelevator pitch for it.
Um, and then I talked um a bitabout my childhood obsession
with the tudor period and um,the fact that when I was 17 I
(09:04):
like wrote a play called Berlinand made all my friends act in
it so deep Tudor nerd, uh and um.
And then, yeah, talked a littlebit about my background.
Didn't mention getting dumpedby my agent of three weeks, just
said that I had sort of partedways amicably.
Um, after my trip, my YAtrilogy, and I was kind of
(09:24):
looking to restart my career inadult and crossover rather than
YA.
J.D. Myall (09:29):
Love it, love it, love it, love it.
How did you get the news thatthe book had sold actually first
?
Holly Race (09:36):
tell me about the call.
J.D. Myall (09:37):
What was your call with your agent like when she
loved that wonderful pitch andwanted to represent?
Holly Race (09:43):
you, it was, it was an, it was.
She was an agent, the agentthat I kind of had at the very
top of my wishlist.
So when I got my first offer ofrepresentation, I hadn't heard
from her at all, not even a fullmanuscript request, and so I
emailed her.
I was like I've had an offer ofrepresentation, do you think
maybe you might like it?
(10:04):
And she got back to me fairlyquickly after that and was like
oh, yes, do you send me the fullum?
And then so I sent it to herabout 6 pm, um one evening and
the following morning at 10 amshe emailed me and was like I
read this overnight and I loveit.
Um, can we meet up and talkabout it?
And I happened to be going intoLondon, which is where she's
(10:25):
based, a couple of days later.
So we met up then and yeah, sheis also a big Tudor nerd, which
I think helped us bond.
And I've had a couple of agentssort of say, oh, could this
maybe be a standalone Becausestandalones are easier to sell?
And I was a bit like, oh, sortof say, oh, could this maybe be
a standalone because standalonesare easier to sell?
(10:46):
And I was a bit like oh, Iguess, but I would really like
it to be a trilogy because Iwant to be able to tell I
basically each novel is toldfrom the point of view of two of
the queens, so you kind of getall six queens point of view
across the trilogy.
And she was really, she reallyliked that idea and and was like
, yeah, it might be a hardersell but I think it's got
(11:09):
there's justification for itbeing a trilogy because of that.
So let's go for it.
And she didn't.
She didn't kind of like do ahard sell at all or promise I
think my very first agent.
I got a little bit drawn in bythe oh, and you know we could do
like uh, uh, vr games of yourbook and put you in touch with
(11:31):
this Hollywood actor and stufflike that.
And I was a bit like, oh, wow,okay, amazing, and there was
none of that with her.
She was just like I'm gonna putyou in touch with a couple of my
existing clients, um, and youcan talk to them, like without
me, like in the frame at all, soyou can get honest feedback and
um, and I think this is reallycommercial and sellable.
(11:51):
But obviously I can't promiseanything but yeah, and then when
I spoke to her other clientsthat she put me in touch with,
they all said kind of the samething that she was incredibly
loyal and just like, had theirback and was in it for the long
haul.
And those things were allreally, really important to me
(12:12):
after my previous experiencesand I just wanted someone who I
could feel really safe with andwho, if the book didn't sell
well or sell at all on sub, thenI wasn't going to feel like I
was about to be dropped orbecome less than basically.
J.D. Myall (12:29):
And what's your agent's name?
Did you say Adam or Paul?
If you did, Sorry.
What's your current agent'sname, did you say?
Holly Race (12:35):
Adam Zoe Plant at the Bent Agency.
Yeah, because the Bent Agencyhas offices in the UK and the US
and that was also quiteimportant to me because I really
wanted to break into the US.
J.D. Myall (12:48):
I love that.
What do you think are theessential elements of a good
retelling?
Holly Race (12:55):
Oh, that's a really good question.
I think greatest hits of youknow.
If there are moments thatpeople think they know from the
original story you know, likethe bits that everyone thinks
they know, then being able toput your own spin on those I
(13:17):
think makes for really goodretelling and I think something
that makes it a bit more modern,I suppose think something that
makes it a bit more modern, Isuppose, um a reason for it to
be retold now as opposed to justlike same old I love that.
What do you think?
J.D. Myall (13:35):
oh, I don't know, I haven't done a retelling yet I'd
have to research.
What do you think makes a goodopening?
How do you hook your readers inthe beginning of the story?
Holly Race (13:48):
um, I think you want to make them ask questions, um,
about the world, about thecharacters, but also to give a
kind of indication of tonestraight off the bat.
So my first sentence for SixWild Crowns is um, her wedding
(14:09):
dress is the colour of theMassacre of Pilgrim.
And like that that line came tome before I had any idea what
the Massacre of Pilgrim was atall.
Um, but once I'd written I waslike okay, well, I've got to
figure out what this Massacre isnow, um, but I feel like that's
quite an intriguing openingbecause it kind of says you're
sort of landing in the middle ofa story if you're landing at a
(14:32):
wedding, but it's notnecessarily a traditional
wedding because the dress is redand it's already mentioning,
kind of like, death and dangerand massacres.
So hopefully that gives you anindication of what is to come.
J.D. Myall (14:49):
Definitely would have made me read on.
You heard that A great firstline.
How do you avoid the stagnantmiddle?
How do you keep readers engagedall the way through?
Holly Race (15:01):
Oh man, I wish I knew.
Going through that with booktwo at the moment'm like oh,
it's awful.
Um, how do you write again?
Uh, I mean, I think raising thestakes as much as you can and
making things really difficultfor yourself to write, so just
like force yourself to writeyour way out of it, I think is
(15:25):
probably a good way, because, Idon't know, I'm a bit of a
planner, but I really admire thepeople who plan completely and
can still manage that.
Because for me, I need to, Ithink, like tip myself off
balance at those points andshake things up a bit and, like
I don't't know, kill someone offor have someone introduce a new
threat, um, in order to, yeah,just like, keep it, keep it
(15:50):
interesting and kind of keep themomentum going.
J.D. Myall (15:53):
I love that.
I try to be a planner, I try toplot, but it's never 100%.
For me it's like 70% and thenthe characters take over.
Yes, yeah, right.
Holly Race (16:05):
I have a friend who does a like 30,000 word outline
of her book and apparently itmakes it incredibly easy and
quick to write the full draft.
But I just don't know how shedoes an outline in that much
detail and still manages tocreate a book that is like fresh
and peppy.
Because if I did that I wouldjust be like I know everything
(16:26):
that's happening.
I don't know.
Yeah, I think you're right.
I think sometimes you need tobe able to let the characters
take over a bit, don't you?
J.D. Myall (16:36):
what do you think makes a compelling, captivating
ending?
Holly Race (16:42):
a compelling ending.
Um, for me, my endings arealways bittersweet.
Um, so personally, as a writer,I I find it really hard to
write endings that are full-onkind of like happy, although I
love, love, love reading booksthat have full-on happy endings.
(17:02):
Um, I think you, I think itkind of needs to give the reader
what they want and expect insome ways, but then have a
little edge to it in others.
So it's, it's just got a littlebit of a surprise, a little bit
of a bite to it that peoplemaybe weren't expecting, but
(17:22):
still kind of like feelsatisfying in all the rest of
the ways.
J.D. Myall (17:27):
I love that.
Um back to your publicationjourney.
Um, can you tell me how you gotthe call Like, how did that go?
So tell me about submissionfirst and then tell me, yeah,
okay.
Holly Race (17:40):
So I did a couple of rounds of edits with Zoe over
the course of like two, threemonths and then we sent out UK
and US at the same time and youknow, as anyone who's been on
Sub knows, it's torturous andyou have to kind of like try and
distract yourself with lots ofthings until the torture like
(18:01):
lessens a little bit.
I'd been fully expecting sortof months and months of waiting,
because that's what I had withmy first trilogy.
In the end we got our firstkind of like bites of interest
after a week or so and then,about two weeks after going on
sub, I was actually in a cafedoing some writing with a friend
(18:23):
, um, and we were both like deepinto our writing when my when
Zoe called on my phone and Iliterally like looked at it and
my friend looked at my phone andshe was like is that?
I was like oh no, and so I likeanswered the phone and, um, and
Zoe was like we've got thispre-empt.
Um, uh, and it's, it's good.
(18:45):
Um, I want to talk to myco-agent in the US when she's up
, but I just wanted to let youknow and gauge your thoughts and
stuff.
And it was on those momentswhere I really wanted to be like
, but I was in a cafe, it wasreally quiet so I couldn't.
So I think my reaction was alittle bit more muted than maybe
(19:06):
she'd expected.
But I got off the phone andtold my friend we were like like
this is really happening, um.
So, yeah, that was amazing.
We ended up saying no to thatpreempt um and, uh, asking them
to come back to us with a betteroffer um, and in the meantime
we got another preempt um, butthen that first publisher came
(19:30):
back with um, something evenbetter um, and for uk and us
rights rather than world rights,um.
And so that's when we said yesto them and no to the other
grant um.
That was over the course oflike about half a week, I think.
So it all happened reallyquickly in the end, which I know
(19:50):
is not normal and I will neverexpect that ever again, quite
frankly.
J.D. Myall (19:56):
And did you have a call with the editor?
Holly Race (19:58):
no, no, I didn't.
Um, I I'd heard really goodthings about her um, which has
been completely like borne outby my experience with her, and
also I kind of felt like thebook was in a good shape and I
wanted, I wanted the publisher,and I wanted a publisher who I
(20:23):
knew were going to market itwell and had a really strong
vision for it, which they did.
So I was kind of like I don'treally see the need to have a
call before we accept.
Let's just accept and thenwe'll chat later.
And so we did that and so farthat has worked out really well.
Um, again, I know I'm verylucky there, but uh, yeah, yeah
and what imprint were you with?
J.D. Myall (20:44):
again?
Orbit okay, yeah, awesome,exciting yeah have you done any
planning for your launch yet?
Holly Race (20:54):
not yet.
I mean, the launch is May nextyear, so we've got a little
while.
We're hopefully going to get umproof boxes out in the next few
months, which is exciting, andwe've nearly finalized cover.
It's like this close, um.
So yeah, I I'm having sort oflike meetings with my publicist
(21:17):
in a month or so, um, sohopefully we'll get more of an
idea of what the plans are then.
But yeah, awesome, awesome.
J.D. Myall (21:25):
What has been the most exciting part of the debut
experience so far um goodquestion or the biggest learning
experience, whichever one, um,I think it's.
Holly Race (21:42):
It's kind of really hard for me to say this time,
because of course I'm not.
I'm not strictly a debut, I'man adult debut um, I would say
my, my actual debut.
The most exciting part wasseeing the cover for the first
time, um, and the biggestlearning experience was
(22:05):
understanding how importanthaving a network of fellow
writers around you is, um, whichI I didn't really have for my
first book and I only cultivatedthat over the next, over the
course of like the next fewyears, so my second and third
books.
I would say my most excitingpart of this debut experience
(22:27):
has been getting the illustratorfor the cover.
It's all about the cover, isn'tit?
I don't know if you've done thesame thing, but it suddenly
feels real when you start tokind of like get a visual on
that cover.
I haven't got the cover yet, soI don't know.
Oh no, okay, well, you've gotit to come.
What's been your most excitingexperience so far?
J.D. Myall (22:50):
um, I guess, um, finding out that it was gonna
sell, yeah, because submission,like you said, is hell and it
took mine 12 days to sell and Iwas really sick the first seven
days and then after that I'mlike oh it sucks, I'm never
gonna sell before I started.
Holly Race (23:14):
It's hard not to be there, isn't it, when you poured
that much of your soul intosomething the hours, the time,
the you know yeah, yeah, I find,um, this time around I I worry
that I am a bit of a like grumpfor orbit, because whenever they
(23:37):
kind of come to me with like,oh, we've got this exciting bit
of news, I'm just like, yeah,we'll see.
Because, like my firstexperience was so like
everything amazing is gonnahappen, and then it didn't, and
so I'm just like I'm just notgonna get my hopes up until I
actually like I'm holdingsomething in my hands that's
(23:57):
cool.
J.D. Myall (23:58):
Um, how about any?
Holly Race (24:00):
are there any tools that helped you along the way as
far as the writing or theediting, or um, I think the
shitty first draft andunderstanding the value of a
shitty first draft has been themost important thing, because
there have been so many timeswhere I've sort of hit a wall I
(24:21):
don't know about you, but likethe sort of 20-30,000 word mark
that seems to be fairly commonfor writers.
Um, just being like this isawful.
I don't know what I'm doingwith it, I don't know where I'm
going.
Is it worth carrying on?
Um?
And, I think, learning thatactually you've just got to get
to the end, even if everythingelse is a total hodgepodge, and
(24:45):
then you can.
It's only when you figure outwhere you're going that you can
figure out the rest of thejourney properly.
But you have to sort of makethat journey in a weird route in
order to get to the ending, andthen you can go back and find
yourself a nicer path, I suppose.
Um, so yeah, just like forgingahead to the end and being
(25:08):
really strict about seeing it asa job as well.
I think it's very tempting,especially when most of us have
other jobs alongside the writing, to kind of push it and push it
and be too tired to do it andbe like oh, this is really hard,
I've got writer's block, butactually it's a job and we're
getting mostly paid for it andlike, yeah, treating it as as a
(25:32):
profession, and you wouldn'tsort of like not do your job on
a day when you were supposed tobe there and you weren't sick,
so just gotta like, yeah, get tothe desk so you don't use like.
J.D. Myall (25:45):
Scrivener or anything like that.
Holly Race (25:47):
I use Scrivener.
I don't think I use about 90%of its tools.
It's okay, I have that.
I use the like little sessiontime timing and, yeah, uh,
figuring out how many words aday I'm supposed to write in
order to be able to meet mydeadline.
But that's, that's kind of it,I haven't tried Scrivener yet.
J.D. Myall (26:10):
so many people talk about it, it's got me curious.
Holly Race (26:13):
I like it.
I like it better than Word, butI think that's quite a low bar
to exceed.
It's useful for being able tojump between chapters, but yeah,
I'm sure there's loads of itthat I just like haven't got to
grips with at all, and if I did,then I would think it was
amazing.
J.D. Myall (26:35):
How about social media?
Do you have any plans for likesocial media or how you're gonna
like present it when this timecomes?
Holly Race (26:40):
uh, I have a few plans I have I recently got a
load of I love cooking andbaking and I ordered a load of
Tudor cookbooks off Amazon andso I was like I wonder if
there's sort of like a littleTikTok reel to be done about
like different Tudor bakes andexperimenting with that.
(27:01):
And, yeah, maybe that's a greatidea it's a lot of work, though
I have a limited amount of likeI'm.
I'm nearly 40.
I don't properly like vibe withTikTok, so we'll see.
That's the plan.
It might not come to anything.
Love it, love it, love it.
J.D. Myall (27:20):
Are you writing full-time?
Are you um working as well?
Holly Race (27:24):
yeah, I am writing full-time now.
I wasn't until I got this deal,but this deal has meant that
I've been able to, which hasbeen really nice.
J.D. Myall (27:31):
That's a good thing.
What advice do you have foraspiring authors?
Holly Race (27:44):
I feel like all my advice is going to be quite like
other people have said it muchbetter but find the sweet spot
between writing what you loveand writing what will sell.
I think that's that's quite atricky thing and it sounds
really cynical, but I think ifyou want to be traditionally
(28:06):
published and in a way thatdoesn't feel kind of soul
destroying because you put itout there and it, you know, if
it doesn't sell well, it's gonnamostly sell well because your
publisher invests a lot in it,and so in order to make that
happen, you've got to create abook that is worth investing a
(28:26):
lot in it because they thinkthat it's commercial enough.
So I would never, ever, adviseanyone to write to a trend
because that's just going to besoulless but everyone involved.
But if you, if you can find away through a story that you
love or a kind of era or acharacter that you adore, but
(28:47):
make it super commercial, thendo that because that's, I think,
going to be the way that givesyou the best experience of a
traditional publishing journey.
I would say.
J.D. Myall (28:58):
I love that.
With both of your publishingexperience, both of your debut
experiences, what was thebiggest hurdle you had to get
over?
Holly Race (29:11):
second book syndrome .
It's so real and it never goesaway.
I thought, having written onetrilogy, that the second trilogy
would be a piece of cake, butno, the second book syndrome is
still, is still there for thisone as well.
Um, yeah, I think that's.
That's been one of the biggesthurdles.
The other one is is is therealization of what I just said,
(29:35):
of that it's a that publishing,traditional publishing is a
business, and they want to selland make money, understandably,
and so you, you are making aproduct, not just something that
is born of your soul, basically.
J.D. Myall (29:50):
I love that.
What's the writing communitylike in England?
Holly Race (29:53):
It's really nice, really nice.
I'm based in Cambridge and it'smostly kind of like science and
tech bros over here, butthere's a small group of writers
based in Cambridge and we'rereally supportive of each other
and kind of turn up for ourlaunches and our events and
things and have like littlewritings and cafes and then
(30:15):
London obviously, there's a hugenumber of authors.
Cambridge isn't so far fromLondon, so it's yeah, my
experience of it so far has beenjust incredibly incredibly
supportive and welcoming andopen, and writers who I was like
kind of like scared to approachbecause they were so big have
been incredibly, uh, friendly.
(30:35):
So it's yeah, it's really niceand I guess, because the UK is
relatively small, you kind offeel that sense of community
quite quite well around thecountry.
J.D. Myall (30:47):
I love that.
Um, tell me something elseabout you that we haven't
covered or that you thinkreaders would be excited to find
out.
Holly Race (30:55):
Um something we haven't covered.
Well, that reads I have no ideawhat reads a bit excited to
find out.
Um, I live in a Bridgeton erahouse.
Um, it was built in 1819, wemoved in last year and it's a
(31:19):
total.
Well, it's a bit of a wreck,basically, but we're slowly
doing it up and kind of likereintroducing all of the old
Georgian and Regency, uh like,yeah things, you can see, you've
got a little fireplace behindme, I think that's it's sort of
like victoria in this one.
We need to find a georgian oneto go in there instead.
But uh, yeah, I'm.
(31:39):
When I'm not writing.
I'm plastering walls with oldlime plaster filled with horse
hair and stuff.
J.D. Myall (31:53):
Exciting.
What's up next for you?
What are you working on after?
Holly Race (31:54):
the series.
Have you thought about it yetor are you still?
I have lots of ideas, as Ithink a lot of us come up.
You know you're sort of like ohI'm in this contracted book but
shiny, shiny new idea overthere.
Yeah, I've got a few ideas butI'm um waiting to pitch them to
orbit once Six Wild Crowns comesout.
Um, because obviously with thethree book deal it's going to be
(32:18):
a while before I'm able to getto that basically.
But yeah, I've got quite a lotof ideas for more fantasy and
speculative fiction adult or YAor book adult.
I have an idea for a YA crimethat I would quite like to write
, but I don't know when I wouldget around to it.
(32:38):
But yeah, I think probablymainly adult now exciting.
J.D. Myall (32:45):
You said that your book launches when.
Again.
Holly Race (32:47):
May next year.
J.D. Myall (32:49):
May next year.
I know mine comes out in fallnext year, but I haven't been
given like an exact month.
Holly Race (32:56):
I only found out because I saw it on Amazon.
I was like, oh okay, that'sgood, I'll put that in the diary
.
J.D. Myall (33:02):
So how have you been liking the experience of being
in the 2025 Daily Brew?
So how?
Holly Race (33:07):
have you been liking the experience of being in the
2025 Daily Brew Nice?
It's a lot.
It's a lot, a lot of newmessages every day that I'm
struggling to keep up with a bit.
J.D. Myall (33:21):
But yeah no it seems like a really nice bunch.
How about you?
Same, it's a lot.
Sometimes I get overwhelmedbecause I'm like one of those
weird antisocials, like most ofus, but I try to force myself to
read them and try to catch up,even though it is a lot, because
it's a lot of good informationin there.
Yeah, yeah, they can turnhelpful in that way.
Yeah, have you met anybody fromthe group in person?
Holly Race (33:40):
Yeah, so I met Maudupe Ayinde, who's another
Orbit author who I think is inthat group, met her for an Orbit
party last week.
We went to have dinner together.
That was really really nice.
And then Georgina Stewart,who's a crime author and she's
(34:00):
based near Cambridge.
So we've met up a couple oftimes as well.
J.D. Myall (34:04):
That's awesome.
Holly Race (34:05):
How about you?
I'm?
J.D. Myall (34:07):
on Zoom, but not in person.
Holly Race (34:10):
Did you basically get inundated with us being like
hi?
J.D. Myall (34:14):
me, interview me.
Yeah, I'm going to try to, youknow, reach out to as many
people as I can Tell me aboutthe party, though Was that like?
Holly Race (34:23):
Oh no, it was really great.
It was their 50th birthdayparty, basically.
So they rented out a space inLondon and, you know, had all of
the cupcake, all of theobligatory book things, cupcakes
, tote bags, um arcs.
Uh yeah, it was lovely it was.
It was busy and like loads andloads of orbit.
Authors came from all over theUK, um, nice speeches.
(34:45):
Just kind of got to meet a fewmore authors and yeah, it was
really nice.
J.D. Myall (34:54):
Is there anything you want to say that we haven't
already covered about, likewriting or publishing, or um
advice to debuts or aspiringwriters?
Holly Race (35:08):
advice to debuts or aspiring writers.
You've debuted twice so I'msure you've got some um, I think
.
I think aspiring writers read alot and that's that's a bit of
advice that's always given isreading a lot.
But I would say I would add onto that read a lot from the last
few years in your genre.
When I did, I've done some kindof book editing and query
(35:30):
editing work in the last fewyears and a lot of the authors
that I've kind of come acrosshave they've they've got really
good ideas for stories andeverything, but all of their
comps are from sort of like 10,20 years ago and that's not
(35:53):
going to be so sellable orinteresting, I would say, to an
agent nowadays.
So I think for aspiring writers, it's make sure that you're
you're reading the modernclassics as well as the classic
classics in your genre.
J.D. Myall (36:04):
I love that um.
Where do people connect withyou?
Holly Race (36:09):
I am on Instagram at holly race books and on TikTok
at holly underscore race, and mywebsite is wwwhollyracecom
awesome um you mentioned in anearlier email about cover.
(36:29):
I mean, I can show you thecover as it is.
I don't know if there's anylike questions that you had
about that right where can Ifind?
J.D. Myall (36:48):
did you see the other sister?
Holly Race (36:51):
uh, did I see the sorry the movie the other sister
, the other sister.
Oh, the other belinda girl.
Oh yeah, the other belinda.
J.D. Myall (37:02):
You're right, yes, yes I love the movie but forgot
to say it.
Holly Race (37:07):
Yeah yeah, it's a good movie.
It's a good movie, incrediblyhistorically inaccurate, but
very good movie.
I hmm, how can I add this?
Okay?
J.D. Myall (37:22):
Let's see.
My daughter, my middle child isa history buff that would be
ever so angry.
Holly Race (37:33):
Which eras of history in particular.
J.D. Myall (37:35):
She likes all of it.
To be honest with you, shereads, like she read the book
Making Bombs for Hitler andstuff like that.
So she you know she's in highschool now, so she reads a
little bit of everything in thehistorical.
She watches historical, likethe YouTube videos and stuff
(37:58):
like that.
Nice, nice, nice.
Holly Race (38:00):
This is gorgeous.
It is the dragons are going tobe the top dragon is as a little
bit awkwardly positioned at themoment.
So they're just doing some workto that and then hopefully
we'll be there okay, when youget the final copy of it, email
me that.
J.D. Myall (38:17):
Yeah, I'm gonna send that in with the interview and
this shot's gonna get those andall that good stuff can do
awesome meeting you you too sofar.
I'd say, we could do lunch oneday.
Holly Race (38:28):
I know, I know.
Well, if you're ever over inthe UK, let me know, will do,
will do.
J.D. Myall (38:34):
Thank you so much.
I appreciate your time.
Holly Race (38:37):
Thank you and let me know if there's anything that I
can do in return next year,when it comes to like pushing
your book as well.
J.D. Myall (38:47):
Awesome, I'd appreciate that.
Also, if you're ever inPhiladelphia I'm co-chair of the
Drexel University MFA programoh, amazing.
If you're ever in Philadelphia,you know you wanted to do some
events at Drexel.
Or there's like a we'repartnered with about a really
nice brand new Gordon Noble inthe middle of Rittenhouse Square
, which is like a fancy suburbanarea in Philadelphia.
So you know I could hook upthat location and stuff too.
Holly Race (39:08):
So if you're ever in the philadelphia area reach out
nice, we'll do, thank you orgeorgia.
J.D. Myall (39:13):
I'm here.
I don't have as manyconnections in georgia, though I
just moved back.
I'm more helpful inphiladelphia okay, got it
amazing.
Holly Race (39:24):
We'll have a really amazing rest of the day.
J.D. Myall (39:26):
No, sorry, I was trying to say bye, but I froze
that wraps up today's craft chatchronicles with JD Mayer.
Holly Race (39:37):
Thanks for joining us.
If you liked the episode,please comment, subscribe and
share.
For show notes, writingworkshops and tips, head to JD
Meyercom.
That's JD Meyercom.
While you're there, join JD'smailing list for updates,
(39:58):
giveaways and more.
Welcome to Craft Chat Chronicles, the go-to podcast
for tips on craftingbest-selling fiction.
Here at Craft Chat Chronicles,we bring you expert interviews,
insights and tips on writing,publishing and marketing.
Join the conversation andembark on a new chapter in your
(00:26):
writing journey.
For workshops, show notes andmore information, visit
jdmyallcom.
That's jdmyallcom.
Here's.
J.D. Myall (00:36):
Holly Race.
Holly writes fantasy with apolitical edge.
Orbit has recently preemptedher Tudor Queens fantasy in a
six-figure three-book deal.
This is her adult novel debut.
It's called Six of Crowns.
It's a fantasy reimagining ofHenry VIII's wives.
(00:57):
That's fiercely feminist.
Today, holly's going to talkabout writing, publishing, what
it's like to debut in the adultworld of writing now and much,
much more.
So if you want to learn alittle about writing craft from
somebody who just recently solda book in a six-figure
(01:17):
three-book deal, here's theplace.
So listen and learn, and Hollywill talk to you all about
publishing, her debut processand so much more.
Enjoy Season two, episode twoof Craft Chat Chronicles.
Holly Race (01:30):
Hello, hello, how are you?
I'm all right, how are youDoing?
J.D. Myall (01:34):
well, very good, very good, so you're in the UK.
Holly Race (01:47):
Yes, yes, indeed, yeah.
How is it over where you wereabout to you?
I forget what we're about to.
Est time zone is.
J.D. Myall (01:55):
Georgia.
It's like New York time.
Holly Race (01:58):
Okay, okay, cool.
Never been to Georgia.
I've been to New York, butnever Georgia.
so tell me about your lifebefore books uh, I, I spent
(02:20):
about 10-15 years working inkind of TV and film as a script
editor.
So like I don't think there'sreally a strong equivalent over
in the US in kind of Hollywood,but, um, script editors and
development executives in the UKsort of come up with ideas for
TV things, um, and find writersand talent and kind of pitch to
(02:44):
broadcasters and channels, so Iguess it would be a producer
over in the US.
But yeah, it's like developmentexecutive script editors over
here.
So I spent about a decade doingthat for various companies like
Aardman Animations, who do theWallace and Gromit films, and
Sean Sheep and working titlefilms, and then Red Planet
(03:05):
Pictures, uh, who produce acrime drama called Death in
Paradise, which I think has madeit over to the US.
Um, but yeah, so that's what Iwas doing before before becoming
an author.
Um got made redundant back in2017 and a couple of weeks later
found out I was pregnant, waslike, oh well, no one's gonna
(03:27):
give me a job now, so I may aswell focus on writing this book.
I've had this idea for um andthen kind of never went back
that's awesome.
J.D. Myall (03:36):
Um, how tell me the story behind the story?
How did your current novel cometo be?
Holly Race (03:41):
um, current novel.
Basically, I had a ya trilogythat got uh published in the uk,
basically over lockdown.
So the first one came outduring what was the first
lockdown here in 2020, and thensecond, the next two books in
2021, 2022 and kind of dead onarrival.
(04:03):
Basically, um, thanks tolockdown, and, uh, it was a bit
disheartening having spent solong writing them.
And so I kind of sat down andthought, right, think about what
stories you you love, um andthe, the kind of topics you love
, and think about what might beactually commercial and stand a
(04:27):
chance of kind of getting abigger deal.
And I've always been a massiveTudor nerd and so I was like, oh
, I wonder if there's a way ofkind of doing some kind of
fantasy feminist retelling ofSix Wives of Henry VIII.
And given the number ofretellings of kind of Greek
myths out there, I was like, oh,I wonder whether this could be
(04:50):
kind of the next thing, a stepbeyond that.
And so, yeah, that was kind ofhow the idea was born.
It was very much born out of avery dark place where I thought
that my career was completelyover.
I'd just been dumped by anagent after three weeks after
signing with them, and so I waslike, oh, looking quite bleak
right now, but maybe, yeah,think about what could kind of
(05:15):
rejuvenate your career.
J.D. Myall (05:17):
Love that.
How did you get your firstagent?
Holly Race (05:20):
First agent was through a thing called the Faber
Academy, which I don't know ifit's that well known over in the
US, but Faber books publisherover here and they run lots of
writing courses, 12-monthwriting course in London and at
the end of it they kind of throwyou into a room with a load of
(05:47):
agents and you have to read ascene out of your work in
progress and off the back ofthat I had a couple of agents
email me and ask to see thewhole manuscript.
So when I finished it I sent itto them and kind of only them
and got a couple of offers andwent with one of them.
And got a couple of offers andwent with one of them.
(06:08):
Essentially so very, verysmooth process that did not
repeat itself over the comingyears.
J.D. Myall (06:13):
And with your second agent.
How did you get to your currentagent?
Holly Race (06:17):
My current agent is not my second agent.
So my first agent ended upmoving to set up his own agency
and I ended up staying with hisassistant because I really liked
her and I yeah, I kind of shehad been the one sort of taking
care of me most, so I stayedwith her.
Then she ended up being maderedundant from her role and
(06:44):
leaving and I kind of got handedover to a third agent at that
agency who didn't pick me.
I didn't pick them.
It was like, yeah, this is fine, but not long-term.
And then, when I was out ofcontract with my YA trilogy, I
sort of got back in touch withthe second agent and she had
landed at a new agency.
But it kind of didn't have thevibe that I was looking for.
(07:05):
It sort of represented verydifferent books from the kind of
books I wanted to write.
So I sort of said I wasn'tgoing to move in the end.
So I then approached an agentwho I knew had read my first YA
book and seemed to be doingreally exciting things and had a
(07:26):
meeting with them and they saidthat they'd love to represent
me.
So I signed with them and thenthree weeks later, before we'd
even really worked together atall.
They phoned me up and were likeactually I've had second
thoughts, I'm really sorry it'snot gonna work.
Um, and that was when I uh hadthe idea for Six Wild Crowns my
my Tudor fantasy and just wentkind of did the querying the
(07:51):
proper way.
I suppose um sent it out toabout 15 agents, I think.
Um, when, when I kind of got itto a place I was happy with it
and got I think it was somethinglike 12 full manuscript
requests and then eight offersof representation in the end.
So yeah, it was um nice to havethat sort of like little ego
(08:14):
boost after being dumped.
J.D. Myall (08:15):
Basically do you remember any of your um query of
the pitch part yeah, I do, I'vegot my.
Holly Race (08:22):
I do have my query letter here actually.
Um, where is it?
Here we go.
So I I pitched it as a feministfantasy retelling at the six
wives of henry the eighth, seton an island ruled by a king who
must marry six queens in orderto protect his kingdom.
When queen boleyn realizes thatsomething is amiss with the
(08:43):
magic of the island, she and theother queens must overcome
their differences and themanipulations of the king and
his and his advisors to takeback their power.
Um, so that was kind of myelevator pitch for it.
Um, and then I talked um a bitabout my childhood obsession
with the tudor period and um,the fact that when I was 17 I
(09:04):
like wrote a play called Berlinand made all my friends act in
it so deep Tudor nerd, uh and um.
And then, yeah, talked a littlebit about my background.
Didn't mention getting dumpedby my agent of three weeks, just
said that I had sort of partedways amicably.
Um, after my trip, my YAtrilogy, and I was kind of
(09:24):
looking to restart my career inadult and crossover rather than
YA.
J.D. Myall (09:29):
Love it, love it, love it, love it.
How did you get the news thatthe book had sold actually first
?
Holly Race (09:36):
tell me about the call.
J.D. Myall (09:37):
What was your call with your agent like when she
loved that wonderful pitch andwanted to represent?
Holly Race (09:43):
you, it was, it was an, it was.
She was an agent, the agentthat I kind of had at the very
top of my wishlist.
So when I got my first offer ofrepresentation, I hadn't heard
from her at all, not even a fullmanuscript request, and so I
emailed her.
I was like I've had an offer ofrepresentation, do you think
maybe you might like it?
(10:04):
And she got back to me fairlyquickly after that and was like
oh, yes, do you send me the fullum?
And then so I sent it to herabout 6 pm, um one evening and
the following morning at 10 amshe emailed me and was like I
read this overnight and I loveit.
Um, can we meet up and talkabout it?
And I happened to be going intoLondon, which is where she's
(10:25):
based, a couple of days later.
So we met up then and yeah, sheis also a big Tudor nerd, which
I think helped us bond.
And I've had a couple of agentssort of say, oh, could this
maybe be a standalone Becausestandalones are easier to sell?
And I was a bit like, oh, sortof say, oh, could this maybe be
a standalone because standalonesare easier to sell?
(10:46):
And I was a bit like oh, Iguess, but I would really like
it to be a trilogy because Iwant to be able to tell I
basically each novel is toldfrom the point of view of two of
the queens, so you kind of getall six queens point of view
across the trilogy.
And she was really, she reallyliked that idea and and was like
, yeah, it might be a hardersell but I think it's got
(11:09):
there's justification for itbeing a trilogy because of that.
So let's go for it.
And she didn't.
She didn't kind of like do ahard sell at all or promise I
think my very first agent.
I got a little bit drawn in bythe oh, and you know we could do
like uh, uh, vr games of yourbook and put you in touch with
(11:31):
this Hollywood actor and stufflike that.
And I was a bit like, oh, wow,okay, amazing, and there was
none of that with her.
She was just like I'm gonna putyou in touch with a couple of my
existing clients, um, and youcan talk to them, like without
me, like in the frame at all, soyou can get honest feedback and
um, and I think this is reallycommercial and sellable.
(11:51):
But obviously I can't promiseanything but yeah, and then when
I spoke to her other clientsthat she put me in touch with,
they all said kind of the samething that she was incredibly
loyal and just like, had theirback and was in it for the long
haul.
And those things were allreally, really important to me
(12:12):
after my previous experiencesand I just wanted someone who I
could feel really safe with andwho, if the book didn't sell
well or sell at all on sub, thenI wasn't going to feel like I
was about to be dropped orbecome less than basically.
J.D. Myall (12:29):
And what's your agent's name?
Did you say Adam or Paul?
If you did, Sorry.
What's your current agent'sname, did you say?
Holly Race (12:35):
Adam Zoe Plant at the Bent Agency.
Yeah, because the Bent Agencyhas offices in the UK and the US
and that was also quiteimportant to me because I really
wanted to break into the US.
J.D. Myall (12:48):
I love that.
What do you think are theessential elements of a good
retelling?
Holly Race (12:55):
Oh, that's a really good question.
I think greatest hits of youknow.
If there are moments thatpeople think they know from the
original story you know, likethe bits that everyone thinks
they know, then being able toput your own spin on those I
(13:17):
think makes for really goodretelling and I think something
that makes it a bit more modern,I suppose think something that
makes it a bit more modern, Isuppose, um a reason for it to
be retold now as opposed to justlike same old I love that.
What do you think?
J.D. Myall (13:35):
oh, I don't know, I haven't done a retelling yet I'd
have to research.
What do you think makes a goodopening?
How do you hook your readers inthe beginning of the story?
Holly Race (13:48):
um, I think you want to make them ask questions, um,
about the world, about thecharacters, but also to give a
kind of indication of tonestraight off the bat.
So my first sentence for SixWild Crowns is um, her wedding
(14:09):
dress is the colour of theMassacre of Pilgrim.
And like that that line came tome before I had any idea what
the Massacre of Pilgrim was atall.
Um, but once I'd written I waslike okay, well, I've got to
figure out what this Massacre isnow, um, but I feel like that's
quite an intriguing openingbecause it kind of says you're
sort of landing in the middle ofa story if you're landing at a
(14:32):
wedding, but it's notnecessarily a traditional
wedding because the dress is redand it's already mentioning,
kind of like, death and dangerand massacres.
So hopefully that gives you anindication of what is to come.
J.D. Myall (14:49):
Definitely would have made me read on.
You heard that A great firstline.
How do you avoid the stagnantmiddle?
How do you keep readers engagedall the way through?
Holly Race (15:01):
Oh man, I wish I knew.
Going through that with booktwo at the moment'm like oh,
it's awful.
Um, how do you write again?
Uh, I mean, I think raising thestakes as much as you can and
making things really difficultfor yourself to write, so just
like force yourself to writeyour way out of it, I think is
(15:25):
probably a good way, because, Idon't know, I'm a bit of a
planner, but I really admire thepeople who plan completely and
can still manage that.
Because for me, I need to, Ithink, like tip myself off
balance at those points andshake things up a bit and, like
I don't't know, kill someone offor have someone introduce a new
threat, um, in order to, yeah,just like, keep it, keep it
(15:50):
interesting and kind of keep themomentum going.
J.D. Myall (15:53):
I love that.
I try to be a planner, I try toplot, but it's never 100%.
For me it's like 70% and thenthe characters take over.
Yes, yeah, right.
Holly Race (16:05):
I have a friend who does a like 30,000 word outline
of her book and apparently itmakes it incredibly easy and
quick to write the full draft.
But I just don't know how shedoes an outline in that much
detail and still manages tocreate a book that is like fresh
and peppy.
Because if I did that I wouldjust be like I know everything
(16:26):
that's happening.
I don't know.
Yeah, I think you're right.
I think sometimes you need tobe able to let the characters
take over a bit, don't you?
J.D. Myall (16:36):
what do you think makes a compelling, captivating
ending?
Holly Race (16:42):
a compelling ending.
Um, for me, my endings arealways bittersweet.
Um, so personally, as a writer,I I find it really hard to
write endings that are full-onkind of like happy, although I
love, love, love reading booksthat have full-on happy endings.
(17:02):
Um, I think you, I think itkind of needs to give the reader
what they want and expect insome ways, but then have a
little edge to it in others.
So it's, it's just got a littlebit of a surprise, a little bit
of a bite to it that peoplemaybe weren't expecting, but
(17:22):
still kind of like feelsatisfying in all the rest of
the ways.
J.D. Myall (17:27):
I love that.
Um back to your publicationjourney.
Um, can you tell me how you gotthe call Like, how did that go?
So tell me about submissionfirst and then tell me, yeah,
okay.
Holly Race (17:40):
So I did a couple of rounds of edits with Zoe over
the course of like two, threemonths and then we sent out UK
and US at the same time and youknow, as anyone who's been on
Sub knows, it's torturous andyou have to kind of like try and
distract yourself with lots ofthings until the torture like
(18:01):
lessens a little bit.
I'd been fully expecting sortof months and months of waiting,
because that's what I had withmy first trilogy.
In the end we got our firstkind of like bites of interest
after a week or so and then,about two weeks after going on
sub, I was actually in a cafedoing some writing with a friend
(18:23):
, um, and we were both like deepinto our writing when my when
Zoe called on my phone and Iliterally like looked at it and
my friend looked at my phone andshe was like is that?
I was like oh no, and so I likeanswered the phone and, um, and
Zoe was like we've got thispre-empt.
Um, uh, and it's, it's good.
(18:45):
Um, I want to talk to myco-agent in the US when she's up
, but I just wanted to let youknow and gauge your thoughts and
stuff.
And it was on those momentswhere I really wanted to be like
, but I was in a cafe, it wasreally quiet so I couldn't.
So I think my reaction was alittle bit more muted than maybe
(19:06):
she'd expected.
But I got off the phone andtold my friend we were like like
this is really happening, um.
So, yeah, that was amazing.
We ended up saying no to thatpreempt um and, uh, asking them
to come back to us with a betteroffer um, and in the meantime
we got another preempt um, butthen that first publisher came
(19:30):
back with um, something evenbetter um, and for uk and us
rights rather than world rights,um.
And so that's when we said yesto them and no to the other
grant um.
That was over the course oflike about half a week, I think.
So it all happened reallyquickly in the end, which I know
(19:50):
is not normal and I will neverexpect that ever again, quite
frankly.
J.D. Myall (19:56):
And did you have a call with the editor?
Holly Race (19:58):
no, no, I didn't.
Um, I I'd heard really goodthings about her um, which has
been completely like borne outby my experience with her, and
also I kind of felt like thebook was in a good shape and I
wanted, I wanted the publisher,and I wanted a publisher who I
(20:23):
knew were going to market itwell and had a really strong
vision for it, which they did.
So I was kind of like I don'treally see the need to have a
call before we accept.
Let's just accept and thenwe'll chat later.
And so we did that and so farthat has worked out really well.
Um, again, I know I'm verylucky there, but uh, yeah, yeah
and what imprint were you with?
J.D. Myall (20:44):
again?
Orbit okay, yeah, awesome,exciting yeah have you done any
planning for your launch yet?
Holly Race (20:54):
not yet.
I mean, the launch is May nextyear, so we've got a little
while.
We're hopefully going to get umproof boxes out in the next few
months, which is exciting, andwe've nearly finalized cover.
It's like this close, um.
So yeah, I I'm having sort oflike meetings with my publicist
(21:17):
in a month or so, um, sohopefully we'll get more of an
idea of what the plans are then.
But yeah, awesome, awesome.
J.D. Myall (21:25):
What has been the most exciting part of the debut
experience so far um goodquestion or the biggest learning
experience, whichever one, um,I think it's.
Holly Race (21:42):
It's kind of really hard for me to say this time,
because of course I'm not.
I'm not strictly a debut, I'man adult debut um, I would say
my, my actual debut.
The most exciting part wasseeing the cover for the first
time, um, and the biggestlearning experience was
(22:05):
understanding how importanthaving a network of fellow
writers around you is, um, whichI I didn't really have for my
first book and I only cultivatedthat over the next, over the
course of like the next fewyears, so my second and third
books.
I would say my most excitingpart of this debut experience
(22:27):
has been getting the illustratorfor the cover.
It's all about the cover, isn'tit?
I don't know if you've done thesame thing, but it suddenly
feels real when you start tokind of like get a visual on
that cover.
I haven't got the cover yet, soI don't know.
Oh no, okay, well, you've gotit to come.
What's been your most excitingexperience so far?
J.D. Myall (22:50):
um, I guess, um, finding out that it was gonna
sell, yeah, because submission,like you said, is hell and it
took mine 12 days to sell and Iwas really sick the first seven
days and then after that I'mlike oh it sucks, I'm never
gonna sell before I started.
Holly Race (23:14):
It's hard not to be there, isn't it, when you poured
that much of your soul intosomething the hours, the time,
the you know yeah, yeah, I find,um, this time around I I worry
that I am a bit of a like grumpfor orbit, because whenever they
(23:37):
kind of come to me with like,oh, we've got this exciting bit
of news, I'm just like, yeah,we'll see.
Because, like my firstexperience was so like
everything amazing is gonnahappen, and then it didn't, and
so I'm just like I'm just notgonna get my hopes up until I
actually like I'm holdingsomething in my hands that's
(23:57):
cool.
J.D. Myall (23:58):
Um, how about any?
Holly Race (24:00):
are there any tools that helped you along the way as
far as the writing or theediting, or um, I think the
shitty first draft andunderstanding the value of a
shitty first draft has been themost important thing, because
there have been so many timeswhere I've sort of hit a wall I
(24:21):
don't know about you, but likethe sort of 20-30,000 word mark
that seems to be fairly commonfor writers.
Um, just being like this isawful.
I don't know what I'm doingwith it, I don't know where I'm
going.
Is it worth carrying on?
Um?
And, I think, learning thatactually you've just got to get
to the end, even if everythingelse is a total hodgepodge, and
(24:45):
then you can.
It's only when you figure outwhere you're going that you can
figure out the rest of thejourney properly.
But you have to sort of makethat journey in a weird route in
order to get to the ending, andthen you can go back and find
yourself a nicer path, I suppose.
Um, so yeah, just like forgingahead to the end and being
(25:08):
really strict about seeing it asa job as well.
I think it's very tempting,especially when most of us have
other jobs alongside the writing, to kind of push it and push it
and be too tired to do it andbe like oh, this is really hard,
I've got writer's block, butactually it's a job and we're
getting mostly paid for it andlike, yeah, treating it as as a
(25:32):
profession, and you wouldn'tsort of like not do your job on
a day when you were supposed tobe there and you weren't sick,
so just gotta like, yeah, get tothe desk so you don't use like.
J.D. Myall (25:45):
Scrivener or anything like that.
Holly Race (25:47):
I use Scrivener.
I don't think I use about 90%of its tools.
It's okay, I have that.
I use the like little sessiontime timing and, yeah, uh,
figuring out how many words aday I'm supposed to write in
order to be able to meet mydeadline.
But that's, that's kind of it,I haven't tried Scrivener yet.
J.D. Myall (26:10):
so many people talk about it, it's got me curious.
Holly Race (26:13):
I like it.
I like it better than Word, butI think that's quite a low bar
to exceed.
It's useful for being able tojump between chapters, but yeah,
I'm sure there's loads of itthat I just like haven't got to
grips with at all, and if I did,then I would think it was
amazing.
J.D. Myall (26:35):
How about social media?
Do you have any plans for likesocial media or how you're gonna
like present it when this timecomes?
Holly Race (26:40):
uh, I have a few plans I have I recently got a
load of I love cooking andbaking and I ordered a load of
Tudor cookbooks off Amazon andso I was like I wonder if
there's sort of like a littleTikTok reel to be done about
like different Tudor bakes andexperimenting with that.
(27:01):
And, yeah, maybe that's a greatidea it's a lot of work, though
I have a limited amount of likeI'm.
I'm nearly 40.
I don't properly like vibe withTikTok, so we'll see.
That's the plan.
It might not come to anything.
Love it, love it, love it.
J.D. Myall (27:20):
Are you writing full-time?
Are you um working as well?
Holly Race (27:24):
yeah, I am writing full-time now.
I wasn't until I got this deal,but this deal has meant that
I've been able to, which hasbeen really nice.
J.D. Myall (27:31):
That's a good thing.
What advice do you have foraspiring authors?
Holly Race (27:44):
I feel like all my advice is going to be quite like
other people have said it muchbetter but find the sweet spot
between writing what you loveand writing what will sell.
I think that's that's quite atricky thing and it sounds
really cynical, but I think ifyou want to be traditionally
(28:06):
published and in a way thatdoesn't feel kind of soul
destroying because you put itout there and it, you know, if
it doesn't sell well, it's gonnamostly sell well because your
publisher invests a lot in it,and so in order to make that
happen, you've got to create abook that is worth investing a
(28:26):
lot in it because they thinkthat it's commercial enough.
So I would never, ever, adviseanyone to write to a trend
because that's just going to besoulless but everyone involved.
But if you, if you can find away through a story that you
love or a kind of era or acharacter that you adore, but
(28:47):
make it super commercial, thendo that because that's, I think,
going to be the way that givesyou the best experience of a
traditional publishing journey.
I would say.
J.D. Myall (28:58):
I love that.
With both of your publishingexperience, both of your debut
experiences, what was thebiggest hurdle you had to get
over?
Holly Race (29:11):
second book syndrome .
It's so real and it never goesaway.
I thought, having written onetrilogy, that the second trilogy
would be a piece of cake, butno, the second book syndrome is
still, is still there for thisone as well.
Um, yeah, I think that's.
That's been one of the biggesthurdles.
The other one is is is therealization of what I just said,
(29:35):
of that it's a that publishing,traditional publishing is a
business, and they want to selland make money, understandably,
and so you, you are making aproduct, not just something that
is born of your soul, basically.
J.D. Myall (29:50):
I love that.
What's the writing communitylike in England?
Holly Race (29:53):
It's really nice, really nice.
I'm based in Cambridge and it'smostly kind of like science and
tech bros over here, butthere's a small group of writers
based in Cambridge and we'rereally supportive of each other
and kind of turn up for ourlaunches and our events and
things and have like littlewritings and cafes and then
(30:15):
London obviously, there's a hugenumber of authors.
Cambridge isn't so far fromLondon, so it's yeah, my
experience of it so far has beenjust incredibly incredibly
supportive and welcoming andopen, and writers who I was like
kind of like scared to approachbecause they were so big have
been incredibly, uh, friendly.
(30:35):
So it's yeah, it's really niceand I guess, because the UK is
relatively small, you kind offeel that sense of community
quite quite well around thecountry.
J.D. Myall (30:47):
I love that.
Um, tell me something elseabout you that we haven't
covered or that you thinkreaders would be excited to find
out.
Holly Race (30:55):
Um something we haven't covered.
Well, that reads I have no ideawhat reads a bit excited to
find out.
Um, I live in a Bridgeton erahouse.
Um, it was built in 1819, wemoved in last year and it's a
(31:19):
total.
Well, it's a bit of a wreck,basically, but we're slowly
doing it up and kind of likereintroducing all of the old
Georgian and Regency, uh like,yeah things, you can see, you've
got a little fireplace behindme, I think that's it's sort of
like victoria in this one.
We need to find a georgian oneto go in there instead.
But uh, yeah, I'm.
(31:39):
When I'm not writing.
I'm plastering walls with oldlime plaster filled with horse
hair and stuff.
J.D. Myall (31:53):
Exciting.
What's up next for you?
What are you working on after?
Holly Race (31:54):
the series.
Have you thought about it yetor are you still?
I have lots of ideas, as Ithink a lot of us come up.
You know you're sort of like ohI'm in this contracted book but
shiny, shiny new idea overthere.
Yeah, I've got a few ideas butI'm um waiting to pitch them to
orbit once Six Wild Crowns comesout.
Um, because obviously with thethree book deal it's going to be
(32:18):
a while before I'm able to getto that basically.
But yeah, I've got quite a lotof ideas for more fantasy and
speculative fiction adult or YAor book adult.
I have an idea for a YA crimethat I would quite like to write
, but I don't know when I wouldget around to it.
(32:38):
But yeah, I think probablymainly adult now exciting.
J.D. Myall (32:45):
You said that your book launches when.
Again.
Holly Race (32:47):
May next year.
J.D. Myall (32:49):
May next year.
I know mine comes out in fallnext year, but I haven't been
given like an exact month.
Holly Race (32:56):
I only found out because I saw it on Amazon.
I was like, oh okay, that'sgood, I'll put that in the diary
.
J.D. Myall (33:02):
So how have you been liking the experience of being
in the 2025 Daily Brew?
So how?
Holly Race (33:07):
have you been liking the experience of being in the
2025 Daily Brew Nice?
It's a lot.
It's a lot, a lot of newmessages every day that I'm
struggling to keep up with a bit.
J.D. Myall (33:21):
But yeah no it seems like a really nice bunch.
How about you?
Same, it's a lot.
Sometimes I get overwhelmedbecause I'm like one of those
weird antisocials, like most ofus, but I try to force myself to
read them and try to catch up,even though it is a lot, because
it's a lot of good informationin there.
Yeah, yeah, they can turnhelpful in that way.
Yeah, have you met anybody fromthe group in person?
Holly Race (33:40):
Yeah, so I met Maudupe Ayinde, who's another
Orbit author who I think is inthat group, met her for an Orbit
party last week.
We went to have dinner together.
That was really really nice.
And then Georgina Stewart,who's a crime author and she's
(34:00):
based near Cambridge.
So we've met up a couple oftimes as well.
J.D. Myall (34:04):
That's awesome.
Holly Race (34:05):
How about you?
I'm?
J.D. Myall (34:07):
on Zoom, but not in person.
Holly Race (34:10):
Did you basically get inundated with us being like
hi?
J.D. Myall (34:14):
me, interview me.
Yeah, I'm going to try to, youknow, reach out to as many
people as I can Tell me aboutthe party, though Was that like?
Holly Race (34:23):
Oh no, it was really great.
It was their 50th birthdayparty, basically.
So they rented out a space inLondon and, you know, had all of
the cupcake, all of theobligatory book things, cupcakes
, tote bags, um arcs.
Uh yeah, it was lovely it was.
It was busy and like loads andloads of orbit.
Authors came from all over theUK, um, nice speeches.
(34:45):
Just kind of got to meet a fewmore authors and yeah, it was
really nice.
J.D. Myall (34:54):
Is there anything you want to say that we haven't
already covered about, likewriting or publishing, or um
advice to debuts or aspiringwriters?
Holly Race (35:08):
advice to debuts or aspiring writers.
You've debuted twice so I'msure you've got some um, I think
.
I think aspiring writers read alot and that's that's a bit of
advice that's always given isreading a lot.
But I would say I would add onto that read a lot from the last
few years in your genre.
When I did, I've done some kindof book editing and query
(35:30):
editing work in the last fewyears and a lot of the authors
that I've kind of come acrosshave they've they've got really
good ideas for stories andeverything, but all of their
comps are from sort of like 10,20 years ago and that's not
(35:53):
going to be so sellable orinteresting, I would say, to an
agent nowadays.
So I think for aspiring writers, it's make sure that you're
you're reading the modernclassics as well as the classic
classics in your genre.
J.D. Myall (36:04):
I love that um.
Where do people connect withyou?
Holly Race (36:09):
I am on Instagram at holly race books and on TikTok
at holly underscore race, and mywebsite is wwwhollyracecom
awesome um you mentioned in anearlier email about cover.
(36:29):
I mean, I can show you thecover as it is.
I don't know if there's anylike questions that you had
about that right where can Ifind?
J.D. Myall (36:48):
did you see the other sister?
Holly Race (36:51):
uh, did I see the sorry the movie the other sister
, the other sister.
Oh, the other belinda girl.
Oh yeah, the other belinda.
J.D. Myall (37:02):
You're right, yes, yes I love the movie but forgot
to say it.
Holly Race (37:07):
Yeah yeah, it's a good movie.
It's a good movie, incrediblyhistorically inaccurate, but
very good movie.
I hmm, how can I add this?
Okay?
J.D. Myall (37:22):
Let's see.
My daughter, my middle child isa history buff that would be
ever so angry.
Holly Race (37:33):
Which eras of history in particular.
J.D. Myall (37:35):
She likes all of it.
To be honest with you, shereads, like she read the book
Making Bombs for Hitler andstuff like that.
So she you know she's in highschool now, so she reads a
little bit of everything in thehistorical.
She watches historical, likethe YouTube videos and stuff
(37:58):
like that.
Nice, nice, nice.
Holly Race (38:00):
This is gorgeous.
It is the dragons are going tobe the top dragon is as a little
bit awkwardly positioned at themoment.
So they're just doing some workto that and then hopefully
we'll be there okay, when youget the final copy of it, email
me that.
J.D. Myall (38:17):
Yeah, I'm gonna send that in with the interview and
this shot's gonna get those andall that good stuff can do
awesome meeting you you too sofar.
I'd say, we could do lunch oneday.
Holly Race (38:28):
I know, I know.
Well, if you're ever over inthe UK, let me know, will do,
will do.
J.D. Myall (38:34):
Thank you so much.
I appreciate your time.
Holly Race (38:37):
Thank you and let me know if there's anything that I
can do in return next year,when it comes to like pushing
your book as well.
J.D. Myall (38:47):
Awesome, I'd appreciate that.
Also, if you're ever inPhiladelphia I'm co-chair of the
Drexel University MFA programoh, amazing.
If you're ever in Philadelphia,you know you wanted to do some
events at Drexel.
Or there's like a we'repartnered with about a really
nice brand new Gordon Noble inthe middle of Rittenhouse Square
, which is like a fancy suburbanarea in Philadelphia.
So you know I could hook upthat location and stuff too.
Holly Race (39:08):
So if you're ever in the philadelphia area reach out
nice, we'll do, thank you orgeorgia.
J.D. Myall (39:13):
I'm here.
I don't have as manyconnections in georgia, though I
just moved back.
I'm more helpful inphiladelphia okay, got it
amazing.
Holly Race (39:24):
We'll have a really amazing rest of the day.
J.D. Myall (39:26):
No, sorry, I was trying to say bye, but I froze
that wraps up today's craft chatchronicles with JD Mayer.
Holly Race (39:37):
Thanks for joining us.
If you liked the episode,please comment, subscribe and
share.
For show notes, writingworkshops and tips, head to JD
Meyercom.
That's JD Meyercom.
While you're there, join JD'smailing list for updates,
(39:58):
giveaways and more.
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