August 16, 2025 • 62 mins
Discover the secrets behind captivating storytelling with debut author Veronica Bane in this episode of Craft Chat Chronicles. Veronica shares her inspiring transition from ghostwriting in adult romance to unveiling her young adult debut novel, "Difficult Girls." She opens up about the challenges and triumphs of balancing her writing career with her role as a high school English and creative writing teacher. Through her journey, you'll gain valuable insights into the competitive world of publishing and learn why following your passion is more rewarding than chasing market trends.
Join us as we dissect the art of character development and maintaining tension throughout a novel. Using examples like "The Hunger Games," we explore how to create multi-dimensional villains and keep readers hooked from the first page to the last. Veronica also offers practical advice on outlining, especially for those with ADHD, and the importance of letting drafts sit before editing to gain a fresh perspective. If you're looking to enhance your writing skills, this episode is packed with tips and techniques that will take your storytelling to the next level.
Finally, Veronica shares her deeply personal journey of writing through grief after the loss of her mom, and how it reshaped her creative process. We discuss the emotional rollercoaster of post-book release and the significance of community support for debut authors. Tune in to discover strategies for successful promotions, networking, and celebrating the milestones of your writing journey. Don't forget to check out our website for additional resources like show notes, writing workshops, and exclusive tips, and join our mailing list for updates and giveaways.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to Craft Chat Chronicles, the go-to podcast
for tips on craftingbest-selling fiction.
Here at Craft Chat Chronicles,we bring you expert interviews,
insights and tips on writing,publishing and marketing.
Join the conversation andembark on a new chapter in your
(00:26):
writing journey.
For workshops, show notes andmore information, visit
jdmayacom.
J.D. Myall (00:33):
That's jdmaylcom In season two, episode three of
Craft Chat Chronicles.
We have debut author VeronicaBain.
Veronica is going to be tellingyou a little bit about the
debut experience, her publishingjourney and her new novel,
difficult Girls.
It'll be a fun chat.
Thanks for joining us forSeason 2, episode 3 of Craft
(00:58):
Chat Chronicles.
Veronica Bane (01:00):
Oh, sorry, I'm popping on my headphones.
I was like those will probablyhelp with background noise.
Thank you for doing this today.
I know it was kind of at thelast moment, you're fine.
J.D. Myall (01:16):
Tell me about when you're writing journey and all
that good stuff.
Veronica Bane (01:19):
Yeah.
So I announced my young adultdebut novel yesterday and I'm so
excited.
I've been keeping that secretsince December and I'm not a
great secret keeper I'm not aterrible one, but I'm not a
great one.
So I have been writing since Imean professionally for I think
(01:43):
the last seven to eight yearsI've done mostly ghost writing,
primarily for adult romance, butfor other genres as well, and I
just love writing.
So just kind of doing whateverjob I was able to do that was
writing adjacent.
I'm also a high school Englishteacher and I also teach
creative writing at the highschool I work at.
And I'm also a high schoolEnglish teacher and I also teach
(02:04):
creative writing at the highschool I work at.
And I'm just really excited tosee this journey come to
fruition after many, many years.
J.D. Myall (02:14):
To put your mind at ease, I've never talked to a
debut and it's actually theirfirst novel.
Everybody like Yili Siegel inher book I'm not dying with you
tonight Got an NAACP image awardnomination.
Beth New York times bestselleryeah, and she was 10 books in.
Yeah, her debut was announced.
Veronica Bane (02:31):
I don't necessarily believe everything
happens for a reason, but Ithink for my journey, everything
happened for a reason.
With this specific journey,timing I'm I feel really lucky
that the timing worked out theway that it did, but it was a
weird, um, you know, seven oreight years of ghost writing, of
just being like, oh it's, it'sreally not me, but it is me.
J.D. Myall (02:50):
this is weird now what I think it is is I think
that I think a lot of newauthors go in with blinders on
because they don't realize thatlike it's more competitive than
professional sports yeah, it'slike just getting published.
Veronica Bane (03:13):
Getting a book deal is like making it to the
olympics yeah, catch yourself inthe back, doesn't matter when
you do it that's a phenomenalfeat that a lot of people,
unfortunately, will neverexperience.
J.D. Myall (03:22):
You know what I mean yeah, no, it's my students.
Veronica Bane (03:26):
I tell them as one of my fun facts at the
beginning of the year that Ighost write, and obviously I
don't say who for NDAs.
But they're like why don't youjust write your own book?
As if the thought has not.
They're like you should justwrite your own with your own
name.
I'm like yeah, I know.
J.D. Myall (03:43):
And then with like Working on it Exactly, and then
like, first you have to get theskill level up because it is so
competitive, but then once youget the skill level up, it's
still market is a big thing.
So you know, if you're writingawesome historicals and this is
at a time when historicalsaren't moving much, yeah, you
know it's still hard.
Veronica Bane (04:01):
Yeah, 100 percent .
You know it's still hard, yeah,100%.
I've been popping over toTwitter and all of them and I
can see the middle gradediscourse is running.
It's so interesting to seeeveryone saying middle grade is,
you know, dead, middle grade isnot selling.
And I feel like a few years agothe advice was oh, everyone
(04:21):
should try to get into middlegrade because it's the only
genre or not genre, but agerange that's selling and that's
guaranteed to always sell.
And it's just like, yeah, youknow, the advice of yesterday is
not necessarily the advice oftomorrow, so you've got to just
write what you love and hopethat the market aligns yeah, I
feel like, with the market.
J.D. Myall (04:44):
That's a tricky thing too, because I couldn't
even like advice to new writersand say chase the market,
because the market changes.
Yeah, what you're writing todaywon't be a factor two years
from now.
Veronica Bane (04:57):
Yeah, 100%, it's a journey, and any, and it also
takes.
I mean, I'm a fairly quickwriter, but even a fairly quick
writer, by the time you finishthat draft it's you know,
there's no guarantee, and evenif I think of that writer, that,
um, right after Taylor Swiftand Travis Kelsey came out as a
couple tried to publish their uh, taylor Swift Travis Kelsey
(05:19):
book and then immediately it gottaken down Cause I'm sure Ms
Swift sued.
It's like, even if you can takeadvantage of the market, you
can't.
Really Well, and I apologize ifI sound a little congested, I'm
getting over COVID, of course,but um, but yeah, so I apologize
(05:40):
if I sound a little under theweather.
J.D. Myall (05:44):
You don't sound fine .
Veronica Bane (05:46):
Or maybe it just adds to my allure.
J.D. Myall (05:48):
Yeah, there you go.
So let's go back to yourpublishing journey.
Yes, so how did you come across?
How did you get intoghostwriting?
How did you start that path?
Veronica Bane (06:03):
I just made sure I let my agent know I'm
available for any and allopportunities.
I want to write whatever thatlooks like and I I had she had
my manuscript and that was usedas a as a sample to pitch me for
jobs.
But I I just made myselfavailable and I've had a few
people ask me how do I get intoghostwriting?
And it is such a referencebased part of the industry that
(06:26):
I feel like there are.
There are people who postthemselves to read Z or
something like that, but for meit was just reference.
This reference would lead tothis reference, and I just made
sure I kept delivering on themanuscripts that I got to work
on.
J.D. Myall (06:42):
That's good I am.
Have you done the IP that I gotto?
Veronica Bane (06:45):
work on.
J.D. Myall (06:45):
That's good.
Veronica Bane (06:45):
I am.
Have you done the IP?
I have, yeah, that, and thatwas also just me saying.
Whatever comes along, I willgive it a go.
J.D. Myall (06:58):
And that's what you have to do, like, yeah, yeah,
make a career of it, cause evenwith your own titles, a lot of
times you know to keep aconstant flow of money.
You want to do that.
Veronica Bane (07:05):
Yeah yeah, and my IP wasn't the thing that ended
up taking off, but I feel likethe just me taking the job and
trying it.
I felt like.
I feel like it felt almost likea like a TV writer's room, like
a collaborative process.
And I'm not.
I really love havingcollaboration at every step of
the process.
I know some authors are theyneed a little bit more I don't
(07:27):
know how to say it but kind ofindependent time with their book
, which I do love.
But I also love when otherpeople get in and give their
ideas or pitch things and I cantake those ideas and run with
them.
So it felt like a natural wayto work.
And I don't think IP is foreverybody, because I do think
some authors, they need to be inkind of control of every step
of the way.
(07:47):
I I just, I just love writing.
So you give me an idea, whichis why it feels like TV
everybody just kind of in a roompopping ideas.
J.D. Myall (07:58):
Um, what um.
Who did you do IP for?
Can you say, or did you signNDA?
Veronica Bane (08:02):
I signed an NDA.
Okay, sadly, you do IP, for Canyou say or did?
J.D. Myall (08:08):
you sign NDA.
I signed an NDA, okay, sadly.
Veronica Bane (08:16):
So tell me about your current title.
Yes, so my book is DifficultGirls.
It is about a girl who gets herdream job at a local theme park
, only to find out that a starperformer is missing and that
disappearance is possiblyconnected to a murder from 20
years ago.
And she just can't help herself.
She has to start investigatingand it's about what makes girls
difficult and the ones who havebeen told they're too much or
(08:37):
they come on too strong, andjust kind of how they find their
place in the world.
Because I was definitely one ofthose girls.
So it's my, it's kind of mylove later love letter to kids
like that Love that Was it afull manuscript.
This was a full manuscript soldon submission yeah.
J.D. Myall (08:55):
Um, who did your book sell to?
I know you just announced thisstuff, so give me all the yeah,
yeah.
Veronica Bane (09:00):
So my book sold to Penguin Random House, slash
Delacorte, to Krista Marino, andshe is literally my dream
editor.
And I remember reading One ofUs is Lying way back when, and
just being in awe of kind of howtightly paced that book was,
(09:20):
and it felt like somethingcompletely different than what I
had seen in.
I'm a high school teacher and Ilove YA, so I read a lot of YA
and I just I was like, oh, Ilove this, I hope one day I can
write something like this.
And so now, to be full circle,and she's my editor, I just feel
really overwhelmed withgratitude.
J.D. Myall (09:38):
Awesome.
Tell me the story behind thisstory.
How did you get the idea foryour current novel?
Veronica Bane (09:48):
okay, I do have.
I'm pretty sure I'm allowed tosay stuff like this, but you're
my first interview, so give me,give me a little bit of grace.
But, um, I worked at a themepark growing up and I worked
there for many years.
I was a theme park usher, so Iwas basically a, you know, a
bouncer for the shows and madesure that kids didn't run on
(10:09):
stage, and I was also a princess, and so I, I, um, that was the
best job I've ever had, becauseI got to just sit in a throne
for an hour and then I'd go backto the green room and, um,
recuperate, and so I mean I missthat shot.
But so I loved theme parks andI've always loved theme parks,
(10:33):
and I think it was just in mybrain that experience started
merging with an idea for amurder mystery and just kind of
gelled together.
And then I had an idea forGreta, the protagonist, and
again that she was drawn fromthat girl who just is so much
and just has, she doesn't knowher place, so she just keeps
(10:56):
bounding from experience toexperience and is desperate to
find where she can belong, andso those elements all started
swirling together and became thebook.
J.D. Myall (11:08):
Love that.
When is your book going tolaunch?
When is it going to be instores?
Veronica Bane (11:12):
Summer 2025.
J.D. Myall (11:15):
Awesome.
And do you have any launchparties planned?
How are you going to promote it?
Oh God.
Veronica Bane (11:20):
I have Sorry for my barking dog.
I have a local bookstore that Iam absolutely in love with that
I am hoping I will get tolaunch the book at, or at least
do some kind of signing, justbecause it's called Annabelle's
Book Club.
It is a bookstore that is ownedand run by a young adult.
(11:41):
So it's just, it's incredibleand she's so smart and has such
great taste and she's alwaysthere whenever you go into the
store and I just it's one of themost gorgeous bookstores I've
ever been in.
But I love many bookstoresbecause I feel like they all
have their own personality.
So I would hope maybe there,but there are many others that I
(12:04):
love as well.
So I just I just can't believeI get to play on a launch party
period.
I'm still in that.
That part of it.
J.D. Myall (12:15):
So what does your agent relationship look like?
Veronica Bane (12:18):
Oh my gosh, I I feel so lucky to have signed
with Michelle.
She, she what I think.
J.D. Myall (12:28):
The agency is she from again?
Veronica Bane (12:29):
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, no, michelle Wolfson,
she's at Wolfson Literary Agency.
I have felt so fought for andsupported every step of the way.
I had a lot of anxiety when Ifirst signed with.
I had an agent before her whoended up leaving agenting.
But then now I've been withMichelle most of my career but I
(12:53):
was so scared to just send anemail.
I didn't want to bother anybodyand that's my generalized
anxiety coming through.
But I just was sure and I thinkeven writers without any extra
anxiety have that fear thatthey're bothering their agent or
they're being a burden.
And Michelle has done such agood job to just make me realize
(13:15):
.
No, we're a partnership andshe's there to help me and she's
there for a quick question orshe's there to talk me off a
ledge, which in this industryhappens a lot.
Just in that we've had a lot ofups and downs and she's never
given up on me and I have neverlikewise given up on her.
(13:37):
Just, I knew we were going toget here, I just had to keep
writing.
And but I think also ourrelationship part of it is that
the writing didn't necessarilyalways look like, okay, I'm
going to sell this book.
It was.
Let me get you any writingopportunity that I can get you
and that's how I've, you know,made.
(13:59):
I have a day job, but I've madea living as a writer and that's
meant the world.
J.D. Myall (14:06):
And when you're doing your own titles like how
does that work, Do you?
Do you go with her with a form,with a full book or a formed
idea, or do you say these arethe things I'm thinking about
which ones do you think you cansell?
Veronica Bane (14:24):
I think so.
Part of it has been, you know,going to her with ideas, but
she'll also.
What I really like is she'slike if you like it, go try.
You know, if you think thatthere's something here, she's.
I've given her YA contemporarynovels.
I've given her YA thrillers.
I've written middle grade, I'vewritten adult, and she's always
just like give it a shot.
(14:45):
If you, if you really believein it, I believe in it and um,
and we will collaborate.
We'll brainstorm ideas and talkthrough things and I just I
always feel she's in my corner,no matter what I am writing, and
I know that there are.
I have some author friends whohave said that their agent was
(15:06):
kind of a one book.
Like, I like this idea, but ifyou come to me with an idea that
isn't my jam or I don't knowhow to sell, and that is just a
different relationship, and Ithink for me, though, having
someone kind of find somethingto love in your book and to
(15:28):
cheer you on is really helpful,and there are definitely ideas
where she's like I think thiswould work better than this, but
I've always just felt supported.
That she's you know she'strying to help me have a career.
Apologies for the cat.
J.D. Myall (15:45):
I was holding my dog when we started.
Veronica Bane (15:47):
This is leftover from Zoom teaching.
As soon as he sees me on a Zoom, he's like, and now I make an
appearance.
J.D. Myall (15:55):
Let my fans adore me .
Veronica Bane (15:57):
Yes exactly, and then I can look like an evil
character from a super villainpetting for the camera.
Does my answer?
Did that sound okay, or did Ijust ramble?
You sounded great like a supervillain petting for the camera.
Does my answer?
Did that sound okay, or?
J.D. Myall (16:07):
did I just ramble?
You're sounding great, like Isaid.
Thank you.
Veronica Bane (16:10):
Thank you for.
J.D. Myall (16:10):
It's not a test sweetie, you can relax oh my
goodness, thank you.
Veronica Bane (16:15):
So you also teach creative writing, I do.
J.D. Myall (16:18):
What do you teach your students about the
beginning of a novel, like, howdo you hook readers and keep
them engaged?
Veronica Bane (16:25):
We do every year.
We do National Novel WritingMonth on kind of a smaller scale
, but so we focus a lot on theidea that your story should
spring from.
Who is your protagonist?
What do they want more thananything?
What do they do to get whatthey want?
(16:46):
And then what stands in the wayof them getting what they want
and how.
It always comes back tocharacter.
And we study the Hunger Games,which I think is as close to a
perfect novel in terms I mean YA, but anything honestly, as it
gets, just with how tight it is.
And we look at how that openingchapter really establishes
(17:09):
Katniss's want.
She wants Prim to be safe, nomatter what, and she'll do
anything, even if it's sacrificefor life.
And it's just such a clearindication because I think that
you can have a hook, that is,you know, explosions and running
and all of that, but if it'snot tied to character, your
(17:32):
audience isn't, I think, goingto be in it for the long haul.
And so I think an openingreally has to center on
character and who they are andwhat they want and how we get a
sense of the lengths they'rewilling to go to get that.
J.D. Myall (17:48):
Love that.
What makes a good villain?
Veronica Bane (17:53):
I think what makes a good villain is that the
same things that make a goodprotagonist, because I feel like
we've all heard it, butsomething I always tell my
students is nobody thinksthey're the villain.
They think they are theprotagonist of their story and
they are just doing the samething.
They want something and they'rewilling to go to great lengths
to get it, and generally thatwant is at odds with the
(18:14):
protagonist.
Whatever they want, and I thinkthat makes for great tension
and great stakes, and just itmakes them a real person too.
I feel like every writer shouldgo through the experience of
trying to consider their storyfrom the villain's perspective.
And what would the book beabout if the villain got to tell
(18:35):
their side, so to speak?
J.D. Myall (18:38):
Love that.
How do you maintain tension I?
Veronica Bane (18:42):
think, I think continuing to bring it back to
character, but also being awareof if the book is getting away
from you, and some of that comesout in editing, I think.
I think writers sometimes haveto free themselves to write the
first draft that needs to exist,the first draft that needs to
(19:09):
exist, and I want to say it'sI'll have to look up who said
this later, but they said thefirst part of writing a book is
putting sand in the sandbox andthen from there you can make the
castle.
But you can't make the castleif you don't have any sand.
And that's kind of.
I think where tension comes inis going back, and I like to let
my book sit for a bit and thenput it on my Kindle where I
can't touch it, and go somewherelike either go get my nails
(19:31):
done or go sit in a park orsomewhere where I don't have
access to my computer and justforce myself to read it at that
messy first draft and see whereit's lagging and then really
pull those parts out.
And sometimes that meanspulling out entire chapters,
entire POVs.
But that tension is an elusivething.
(19:52):
But I think, if you're, atleast for me, if I'm constantly
worrying about tension as I'mwriting the first draft.
I think that's another way toget lost.
I think sometimes I just haveto go from my outline, do the
best I can and then tighten itup later.
J.D. Myall (20:08):
So you're a plotter?
That was going to be my nextquestion.
Veronica Bane (20:10):
Yes, yes, I don't think.
I think plotting allows me tobe more creative and spontaneous
within the book.
I don't necessarily adhere toevery part of the outline like
things may take a turn, but itat least gives me a guiding
(20:33):
light and then when I get to thescene, I may change it
completely from the outline, butat least I had some ground that
I knew was happening beneath me.
And also I just I will say Ihave ADHD and I think if I did
not have an outline, we wouldhave no idea where we were going
(20:56):
.
We would really be justthrowing things and trying to
figure it out as we go.
So I think that the outlinehelps me have some foundation,
but then I still get to play.
And I also think, when I'mstarting a book, before I do
anything, I write a firstchapter.
I see what the voice wants tobe, I see who the characters are
(21:18):
.
I couldn't go just outline.
And then I need to get a senseof who they are and then I can
outline.
J.D. Myall (21:28):
Love that I outline too, but I'm never 100% true to
the outline.
Yeah, take over and deviatelittle places.
Veronica Bane (21:35):
Exactly.
Well, I think some of the bestplot twists come from where
you're like oh, I wasn't evenexpecting that when I wrote the
outline, but now I see that's100% the way to go.
J.D. Myall (21:48):
Love that, Love that .
What has been the well,actually, I'll give you one more
question, right?
Veronica Bane (21:58):
You can be as many questions as you want.
I'm homesick, I'm dying to kill.
Wow, you feel better here.
I know I'm homesick to kill.
Wow, you feel better here.
I know I'm hoping I'm at thetail end because it's been a
week so how do you close an Alba?
J.D. Myall (22:14):
well, close it out.
Veronica Bane (22:20):
That's a really great question.
I think that last chapter I hada professor in college that was
sure you needed to know yourending before you wrote your
book and he actually had uswrite an entire book of endings
where we just wrote the end ofwhatever these stories might be
and I liked parts of thatexperiment.
(22:42):
But I also realized I don'tnecessarily have like an end for
sure stuck in my head, even ifit's on the outline, because I
feel like so much of it has tobe tying up threads, making sure
that the emotional catharsisrelated to the characters is
there, making sure that theemotional catharsis related to
the characters is there.
(23:03):
So I think I have like fuzzyversion and then I have
obviously whatever the outlinesays.
But the outline usually I thinksays something like wrap up
well, so future me is like great, I'll try.
But I think something thatfeels true to the character.
It's either they're gettingwhat they wanted from the
beginning or they're realizingthat they want something
(23:25):
different and it's changed overthe course of them learning
about themselves.
And I think usually it fallsinto that latter category.
J.D. Myall (23:33):
Love it, love it.
And your book is like mysterythriller.
Right it is.
It is what makes a good mysterythriller.
What are the elements of that?
Veronica Bane (23:40):
Oh boy, I love when and I read a lot of mystery
thrillers it's one of myfavorite.
It's obviously one of myfavorite things to write, but
it's also one of my favoritethings to read.
And I like when they outsmartme, because I really try to
outsmart them from the second Iopen the book and I'm like, okay
(24:01):
, I feel like it's usually oneof the characters that's
introduced early and it's notthe red herring and it's not.
You know, maybe it's someonewho seems too innocent.
I like to figure it out, I liketo puzzle it out and I like
when they best me.
I like when I don't get itright, but I also want it to
(24:22):
feel like I should have seenthat.
I really appreciate when anauthor can make me have that
reaction, because I think a goodmystery thriller it's somebody
that makes sense, but it's notsomebody that you expected.
I think that's that dance youhave to walk, or dance you have
to do line, you have to walk.
J.D. Myall (24:47):
Love that, love that .
What was your biggest surpriseso far in the publishing journey
?
Veronica Bane (24:56):
I think at this point it's not.
It is no longer a surprise, butI think it was a surprise
initially and it's always asurprise to my students when I
talk to them about it and it'show collaborative it is.
I think we think of writing asa very solitary exercise.
Someone goes over to theirancient typewriter and they get
(25:17):
their cup of tea and they justgo at it.
Or they go to a coffee shopwith their laptop where they're
surrounded by people but they'reworking by themselves and it's
really not.
From the very first moment thatyou send out a query letter
you're asking for your firstcollaborator and actually before
(25:38):
that you should have betareaders and critique partners.
And that's been an essentialpart of my process is I have a
writing group that I meet withevery other week and we bring
about 1500 words and we talk itout and we give feedback on big
plot things and character points, but also on line level, and
(26:00):
that's made my writing so muchbetter and I think if I had
tried to just be one of thosesolitary writers, I wouldn't
have improved, I wouldn't havegrown in my craft and I know not
every writer works that way butI think the more comfortable
you get with sharing your workand learning how to find the
note under the note.
There have been plenty of timesin a critique group where I got
(26:21):
a note and I was like, okay,that specific note or their
suggested fix doesn't feel right, but it's telling me I have
this problem underneath that Ican figure out how to fix and I
love that.
And my editor I am so gratefulthat she gives notes and some of
them have really pushed me andpushed the book and initially I
(26:43):
was hesitant and I had to go sitwith them.
And then I came have reallypushed me and pushed the book
and initially I was hesitant andI had to go sit with them.
And then I came back and I waslike, oh, she's right, I know,
and I hate it and I love it andit's just part of the process
and I feel just so grateful tobe in a business where that is
the case.
So I'm glad it wasn't solitary,but that was definitely the
(27:06):
biggest misconception, I think,going in.
J.D. Myall (27:09):
And where did you get your critique group members?
How did you find them?
Veronica Bane (27:14):
We have known each other.
I think for now some of us haveknown each other for nine years
and came together from othervarious, you know writing
classes that we would take andthen branched off and um and
yeah, and we all write differentthings and it's just.
It's been really.
It's been really cool to seethe different projects that
we've all come up with over theyears.
(27:34):
But yeah, I think they startedout in different classes and
then just yeah, well, what stateare you in?
California.
J.D. Myall (27:44):
Oh cause?
Because I I think I interviewedyour um agent mate.
Uh, becky, yeah, yeah, you saidBecky.
I thought that that's who youwere talking about, but then I
was like, well, becky's a commonname, it might be another no,
she was.
Veronica Bane (27:58):
She was really excited because I told her I was
like, yeah, I'd reached out tooand, um, you know, I suddenly
have free time, but so in someways it's a blessing in disguise
, but yeah, I can't a couple ofdays she was talking to me in
the thick of the uh busted pipeand stuff too, like I don't know
.
J.D. Myall (28:19):
She did warn me, she was.
Veronica Bane (28:20):
she was like she was sweet, and then I found out
at the end that she was dealingwith some home crisis.
What a professional justpushing through.
J.D. Myall (28:29):
If I'm shifting a lot, it's because I'm sitting on
the hard floor in the dry house.
Great more thing.
What else was I going to askyou?
What else is I going to ask you?
What do you wish that you knewabout the writing journey and
(28:50):
being a professional writer whenyou were just starting out?
Veronica Bane (28:58):
it's not going to happen immediately, and that's
a good thing.
Like I am grateful that I gotto have so many years of craft
and development before my firstbook comes out and then I've
written so many books so thatI'm a little more prepared of
(29:21):
what to expect and the emotionaltoll, even of you know, I feel
like I feel like I got to not tonot to borrow my students slang
but I feel like I got to cook alittle longer.
I got to get to where I neededto be.
And that doesn't mean I'm notgoing to keep getting better.
(29:42):
I would hope that with everybook I get better at this, and
but I think if we were gettingbaby Veronica's first book that
I first went out with to getagents, I don't think that was
the journey I was supposed tohave.
So I think you know that thatversion of me would have been
really frustrated if I told herlike you got some time, but it's
(30:04):
all for the best.
J.D. Myall (30:06):
Very true, very true .
I'm deeply ashamed of the firstbook I wrote.
I'm mortified now.
That's how the world knew me.
Veronica Bane (30:22):
And I'll get a little deep, but you can take
what you need.
But my mom passed away suddenlywhen I was.
I just I think I'm trying toremember where I was in my I
think I can't remember if I'dsigned with Michelle yet or not.
I actually don't think I had,but I, with the past agent, we'd
been on submission with a bookand then she said she was
(30:44):
leaving agenting.
But when my mom died, I feellike the dream changed for a
little bit because I questionedam I going to be able to write?
Is this going to mean anythingto me now that my mom's not here
to see this?
And that made writing hard fora bit.
(31:07):
And this book that I ended upselling was the first book that
I wrote after my mom died, andwriting books after my mom died
just made me reevaluate and mademe more willing to take risks,
because I just wanted to tellstories that were really
authentic and that dealt withgrief.
I felt like the way I'd seengrief in books for so long was
(31:28):
so disconnected from whatactually happened.
And even in books and TV andmovie it was.
You know, someone is very sadfor a montage and that's it.
And grief just wasn't like thatfor me.
It was obviously excruciatinglypainful, but there were also
weird moments, and I don't wantto say happy moments, but just
(31:49):
strange moments where you werehappy, but it was.
How can I be happy in a worldwhere my mom doesn't exist?
And so there were complicatedfeelings that I was eager to put
into my writing and I I think,now that I've kind of gained the
craft to kind of deal withthose things, I'm I'm happy to
(32:11):
be writing about them, not happyto have gained the life
experience to be able to writeabout them, but happy to be
writing them for someone like mewho went through that and
didn't see that kind ofrepresented in what they were
reading.
J.D. Myall (32:25):
I love that.
That's a great answer.
Are there any tools that youfound like really useful, or
helpful during the time when youwere querying or during your
writing process, or yeah, Ithink writing process, I feel
like I've tried.
Veronica Bane (32:40):
I'm always willing to read a craft book and
give something a shot, becauseI feel like kind of you got to
try on all the things to seewhat fits.
And I used to be very when Iwould outline.
I would always outline with thehero's journey and then I would
adjust it later.
But sometimes I find thatoutlines are like that.
(33:01):
They're a good starting offpoint to show me what I'm
missing.
But especially with Thriller, Iwas like the hero's journey
just doesn't quite align to whatI want it to do, and so I feel
like in terms of resources, Iwould say, but I feel like every
(33:22):
writer should honestly just goto their local bookstore and go
to.
At least my local bookstore hasa table of, you know, craft
books and it's everything fromsave the cat to um story genius
to character workbooks, and justflip through and see what looks
(33:43):
good and try it and if it fits,great, and if not, maybe it
sparked something else for you.
So I think that those, thosewould be kind of tools.
I also I just I love a notecard when I'm plotting initially
, especially if I'm writing dualPOV or multi POV is each
character gets a color note cardand, like Greta was always
(34:07):
green, and I write their journeyand then I move the cards
around and I see how everythinglooks together.
And I've had a critique partnercome over and we feel like that
, that meme of Charlie day wherehe's like this and going
through, okay, is the murdercoming off the way we need it to
?
And so I think note cards arehonestly probably my biggest
(34:29):
tool that I've used.
J.D. Myall (34:31):
Awesome, awesome, awesome.
When you talk to Becky, tellher I tried cat pet.
She was mentioning that withher tools.
Yeah, love it.
I posted my first cat pet video.
Veronica Bane (34:42):
Oh, I love that.
J.D. Myall (34:43):
Oh, I love that, I love that yeah she was like no,
it's easy and I do a lot ofvideos on there.
Veronica Bane (34:49):
So yep, well, I have to make my.
I made all my announcements forall the other platforms, but
TikTok's my last one, because Iwas like, oh, I gotta wear
makeup for this.
And then I was like I have towear makeup for my interview, so
then we'll film.
After that I felt funny becauseI did get in terms of tools.
I got myself a little tripodand a little light and was
(35:13):
trying to take it very seriouslyand I had them in my writing
bag at school and the kids werelike, miss, why do you have a
tripod and a light?
Because I think they werefilming something for a project.
And I was like, oh, you canborrow this.
And I was like, oh, I'm tryingto be serious on TikTok.
And they were really cute.
They were like you should justbe yourself, they'll love you.
I was like, will they?
J.D. Myall (35:36):
Oh my gosh, Low key.
I was a little embarrassed whenthe carpet guy walked over
because I have like these bigorange reflectors, like big gold
reflectors.
Then a little light in front ofme and I'm sitting on the floor
because I told you he's workingon the carpet.
So I'm sitting on tile floorwith a webcam and these things
and he like looks in like whatis she doing?
I know right, you're done.
Veronica Bane (35:55):
Okay, thank you this is what it takes, man, we
gotta, we gotta look our best.
Sometimes the natural lightingis not giving what it needs to
give, so like ever.
J.D. Myall (36:06):
Oh my god, I had one I did at my parents house.
It was like it was terrible.
Veronica Bane (36:14):
I know I well, because I get off of school so
late that I'm like, oh we got afake natural light because we
don't have it anymore.
So, yeah, awesome awesome.
J.D. Myall (36:25):
I'm trying to think what else would you like to know
readers and aspiring writers toknow about you and your journey
that we didn't cover?
Veronica Bane (36:41):
I think one thing I would caution aspiring
writers about is taking advicethat doesn't fit you.
I heard a lot when I wasstarting out and I heard it also
at I studied creative writingtoo.
You have to write every singleday.
If you don't write every singleday, you're not a real writer.
(37:04):
You have to put your butt inthe chair and you have to put
words on the page, and I think Iwill buy into that.
But only if writing doesn'tnecessarily look like writing to
me.
If I go for a walk, that mighthelp me break a story just as
much as me sitting and typing onthe keyboard.
If I go and I get breakfast bymyself, that might help me
(37:29):
figure out a character.
If I go talk to a friend and wejust are chatting.
If I go see a movie, if I reada book, those things might fill
the creative well, versus mesitting at my laptop trying to
force something that's just notready to be forced.
And I used to really think,especially because, okay, well,
if you're doing this as a job,you have to just push through,
(37:53):
and what I found is, yes, butpushing through is doing those
other things that I talked about, and then the writing comes so
much easier.
But what I think I found is, ifI was just sitting at my
computer trying to force thesewords, I just felt ashamed and I
felt wrong.
So I think I would tell writershear the writing advice out.
(38:14):
But also you might have to comeat it a different way, and
that's okay.
And especially, like I said,because I have ADHD, I had to
figure out what worked for meand a lot of times I use an
accountability buddy where Ihave a body doubling.
So my friend will come overwho's also a writer, with her
laptop, with her dog, and ourdogs play and we do 25 minutes
(38:36):
and we you know she's there, Ican hear her typing.
So I'm like, oh, I have to typetoo, and then our 25 minutes is
up and we get five minutes tochat and then 25 more minutes of
writing and the dogs play.
So I don't have to.
You know, my dog's got hisexercise and I've gotten my
writing done, and it's one ofthe only ways I've been able to
make it so that I write afterwork, because otherwise, as a
(38:58):
teacher, I am so exhausted.
So I had to come to that andfigure that out and and make the
advice work for me.
J.D. Myall (39:07):
So I love that.
I forgot to ask you earlier.
How did the call go?
Tell me about that.
Veronica Bane (39:14):
Oh, with agent or editor or both Both.
Well, so my agent call.
I'm going back all these years.
But, uh, my agent call.
I just I was so nervous, I wasso excited, but I'd been through
it before because I had myfirst agent, so I actually had
(39:36):
um, she was not my only offer ofrep and I I felt like I went
into that call more prepared toask for what I needed and also
less distracted by what I didnot need, and I was really able
to see are we a personality fitand do we see the same things in
(40:00):
the book and does she love thethings that I love?
And then can she help me seethe things that I need to see to
make this better?
And I just remember feelinglike, oh, this is right, this is
right and I am, yeah, I wasright.
I'm glad the other agent waswonderful, but I think that
(40:25):
Michelle was the right call.
J.D. Myall (40:29):
And your editor call .
Veronica Bane (40:32):
I cannot.
I truly don't think I can gushenough about Krista.
She is and she has a great team.
I get to work a lot with Kristaand well, obviously Krista, but
her assistant, lydia as well,who's an editor now on her own
and she's also an author, and Ijust Krista, saw things in this
(40:54):
book and loved this book in away that I needed it to be loved
.
That she saw my little weirdoand said, yes, I am all in on
this difficult girl.
And when you write charactersI'm sure you can appreciate this
I feel like sometimes when youwrite characters that might get
(41:18):
called, I'll just say, difficultbecause of the title, I think
sometimes you can question, do Ireally release this one out
into the world?
And so to have your editor beall in and say, no, I love this
and we need to even make hershine more, that just I was like
(41:43):
, oh, we are in good hands and Icould not.
I could not have been happieron that call.
J.D. Myall (41:49):
And you mentioned the Hunger Games.
Veronica Bane (41:50):
Katniss was difficult and she's loved by
everybody, that's and you knowand it's funny that you say that
, because when I teach it,sometimes the kids are like, oh
God, katniss, like why are youdoing that?
Like she'll be like be like, oh, clearly he's doing that
because he's trying to kill meand we're over here like no girl
.
Clearly he loves you.
This is love that you are.
(42:11):
But there's something so realabout that and I think Suzanne
Collins portrays that so welland that's what I needed an
editor to see with Greta thatshe has those flaws but she is
trying.
She doesn't know exactly how tohandle things the right way and
(42:32):
I really wanted someone who sawthat teens do not act the right
way 98% of the time.
J.D. Myall (42:39):
We certainly didn't.
Veronica Bane (42:41):
No, if anything, being a teacher has given me the
uh, the comfort to watch themmake the same mistakes.
Like all of them, they all makethese mistakes, and they're
still wonderful people, but theyjust they're just finding their
way, and you got to make thosemistakes, and so I want to see
that in every book I write andthat's what I love to read the
(43:03):
most is the characters whoyou're screaming at like please
turn around, don't, do not pass,go.
This is terrible, you are goingto suffer, but they do it
anyway because that's how humanbeings are.
J.D. Myall (43:15):
Why did you choose to write for young readers Now?
I'm not asking this the wayother people ask this.
I say that because you know Iwrite for teens too and I love
YA.
Some people ask it like it'slike well, what are you going to
write grownups?
Veronica Bane (43:31):
Yes, Well, they, they, they ask it like it is a
consolation prize.
Like oh you know, why are youwriting the baby books Like when
are you going to make the jumpto the big leagues?
And I'm like, no, this is thisis where I want to be.
I I think that there issomething so powerful about when
(43:52):
you are a young adult and youhave everything in front of you
and you have all your mistakesjust around the corner and you
have plenty of mistakes behindyou and you're in that period
where you are finding who youare, finding what you care about
and getting into the messy partof life.
(44:16):
I never like when people saythat teens are going to get to
the real world, because I teachteenagers and I promise you they
are already in the real world.
They are already dealing withthe consequences of our actions,
the consequences of the world'sactions.
They are in it and they aredealing with it every single day
.
But they are dealing with itwithout the experience that we
(44:40):
have.
Like they just have to fly intothis and and hope for the best
and be willing to get theirhearts broken, and and I I just
think there is something sobeautiful and wonderful about
that, and I also think I writebooks hopefully, for the version
of me that would have loved toread a messy girl making
(45:03):
terrible decisions and seeingthat it's okay, because I
certainly made plenty and Ididn't know whenever every
decision I made I thought wasgoing to be the end of the world
and to see a book where youmake the bad decision.
Life is not over.
You get through it and you makemore bad decisions.
J.D. Myall (45:26):
I love that Exactly, and that's real life.
It's messy, it's complicated,it has to be figured out.
We kiss frogs before we findPrince Charming.
Veronica Bane (45:36):
Yes, and I love writing for adults too, because
I write both, know I write bothand and.
But I think there's justthere's a richness to each
experience and and I think thatpeople assume that sometimes in
young adult that that richnessis absent, and I I just could
(45:59):
not disagree with that more,because I think some of the
richest novels that I get toteach, that I get to read, are
in young adult, and I love that.
J.D. Myall (46:10):
And they're complex, just like adult novels and for
me myself and not even just me,but a lot of people, a lot of
adult people read young adultnovels.
I like McQueen's Pacey.
In my new program we had toread a lot of literary and it
was slowly killing me becauseI'm not a literary fiction fan.
I like the plot and the paceand the big emotions in YA.
Veronica Bane (46:33):
Yeah, those big emotions.
I think that's also why a lotof people like romance.
I think there's something forme, me, there's something to be
gained with every type of book,and I think if people say I only
read this or I only read this,you're cutting out an entire
part of the menu and I don'tknow why you would want to do
(46:55):
that.
I, I feel like there issomething to be enjoyed in every
genre and every age convention,and and I'm going to keep my
options open because why not?
J.D. Myall (47:09):
What are you working on next?
Veronica Bane (47:14):
Another thriller, but I think that's all I'm
allowed to say.
J.D. Myall (47:18):
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
I heard from somebody Iinterviewed that has like post
debut that after the book comesout there's like often a post
debut like depression orwhatever.
Yep.
So hopefully that's not truefor either of us.
But I'm just warning you, sincethey said that, cause they're
(47:39):
like they said that you're likeon a rush and you're excited
until it happens.
Then it happens and then youcome down off of that.
Veronica Bane (47:46):
Yes, I have heard that and I'm sure it will hit
me.
I read in a book.
I read a book before and afterthe book deal and they talk
about that at length and theysaid you know, have a day for
yourself, like I think I'll havea day where I get like a facial
, I get my nails done, I got agood book to go read at the
beach, something where I'm doingsomething for me.
(48:07):
Um, but I also will say, havingghosts written a lot of books,
it's interesting to watch thelaunch as the ghost writer,
because you kind of get all ofthe good but none of the like.
It's just like I just watchedthat.
It just comes into the worldand then the world moves on and
(48:28):
you write another book and I'mhoping maybe I will say this and
then look back in a year andlaugh, but I'm hoping that I can
internalize some of that, asthis is just one book.
It is not your entire careerand you can be excited about
this moment, but this is not theend.
J.D. Myall (48:47):
Beautifully spoken.
Where can I connect with you?
Veronica Bane (48:54):
I am on all of the social media?
I feel like probably not, but Iam on TikTok Threads, instagram
.
Feels like there's more.
Twitter X as at Veronica Bain.
J.D. Myall (49:13):
Facebook.
Veronica Bane (49:15):
Yes, I'm on there too.
I don't think our readers are.
J.D. Myall (49:19):
They say that, I know, I know.
Veronica Bane (49:21):
They say you got to Romance is big on Facebook,
because I think there are someFacebook groups where they're
very active and they suggest,but I think for young adult no,
they're on TikTok.
J.D. Myall (49:34):
Do you write romance as well?
Veronica Bane (49:35):
I do.
Oh cool, I didn't know that.
Yeah, so I primarily ghostwrote romance.
So I primarily ghost wroteromance.
So but then I also I've draftedmy own.
So hopefully one day when I'm Iwant to write it all.
So but hopefully one day I geta chance to finish those up.
J.D. Myall (50:02):
That was another piece of advice I got from the
seasoned author that Iinterviewed the other day and
I'm passing it on in case it'suseful to you.
Yeah, when she was talkingabout the post-debut depression,
she was also saying that tosurvive financially as a writer,
you have to write it allbecause of the nine.
Yeah, I mean that is so.
That's when you do your middlegrade or your adult and you just
keep pushing.
Veronica Bane (50:20):
That is yes, I love that advice and I've heard
it myself and I think that'salso why I made it clear to
Michelle.
From the beginning I was like Ijust want to write, I love
story, I love characters, and so, whatever that looks like, I
want to do it, and so andluckily, I feel like that is
(50:43):
that I don't think I would havenecessarily written thriller if
I had gotten into my head like,no, you are this kind of writer.
I needed to stay open, and whenthat idea came, I was like, oh,
you're a thriller, great, we'llwrite you as a thriller.
J.D. Myall (50:58):
So Love it, love it, love it, love it.
I'm excited.
I'm excited for you, I'mexcited for me, I'm excited for
us both.
Veronica Bane (51:05):
I'm excited for you to have flooring eventually.
J.D. Myall (51:10):
This is really sad.
I feel like I just moved in.
Everything's piled up.
I'm sitting on empty floors.
It's crazy.
Veronica Bane (51:16):
And you're, and you're still getting all this
done and working on your ownbook.
When is your book coming out?
J.D. Myall (51:21):
It's coming out in fall 25.
The first one, it was a two-bitdeal, and then the second one
comes out in 26.
Veronica Bane (51:26):
Nice, that's so exciting.
I know I've added all the onesthat were on the spreadsheet for
Goodreads, but it was a blur oflike adding them all, so I'll
have to make sure I go in andfind yours specifically.
J.D. Myall (51:37):
I was telling Becky that what I would love for us to
do is, around everybody's debutdate, either go on live or do
like a Zoom you know what I mean, yeah, and rooting that person
on, and we could all plug ourbooks too and then like pitch it
and, you know, put it all onour socials and stuff like that
to help yes, stuff like that andpromote us at the same time.
Veronica Bane (51:57):
Yes, there's so much pressure to make your debut
stick Right and I know thatpeople will be like, no, don't
worry about that.
And I'm like, let's be real.
We all know that, yes, we doneed to come out of the gate
with some success.
I'm not saying it needs to be abestseller, but if we want to
keep, going yes, we have to takeadvantage of these
(52:19):
opportunities.
So I'm like, what are we doing?
Are we doing social media posts?
Are we doing newsletter?
Are we doing?
Oh, people can sign up for mynewsletter.
I did make a newsletter, but,yeah, school visits, especially
as a teacher, I'm like I want todo school visits, whatever is
going to move books, so that Ican keep doing this, because
(52:44):
move books so that I can keepdoing this, because I'm also
co-chair of the Drexel MFAprogram, the MFA alumni program.
J.D. Myall (52:52):
So if you're in Philadelphia, and you want to do
anything at Drexel, let me knowand I'll talk to the program
director and make that happen.
Veronica Bane (52:56):
I did see.
I think it was Eric Smith saidon one of the he's at Drexel oh
is he, oh he's a Drexel.
J.D. Myall (53:02):
He teaches at Drexel .
He's a professor there.
Veronica Bane (53:04):
Oh, that's so cool.
He said he was like go wherefor book events, go where you
could have a birthday party.
And I was like that is suchgood advice, because if I show
up to a state where I don't knowanyone, of course no one's
showing up, they don't know me.
But if I go, I didn't thinkabout that right and I was like,
(53:29):
what great advice.
Because, yes, if I, if I couldgo somewhere where I know at
least three people, thenhopefully they bring their
friends and I'm, you know, notone of the.
I mean, I'm sure it sounds likea rite of passage the book
event where you're the only onethere, but still I'm hoping that
you know so.
J.D. Myall (53:43):
Well, who knows, though, you might come out the
gate massive and then peopleshow up where you don't know
anyone and be like, oh, it'd belike a joint event thing, like
if we were ever able tocoordinate it, like I don't know
how everybody's schedule isgoing to be or when everybody
you know.
Yeah, but if we were ever ableto coordinate like a joint thing
(54:04):
, with me being like as aco-chair of the alumni um, I'm
in with the Drexel people, sothe Drexel people would show you
know what I mean.
Yeah, well, if we were able todo a joint event, you know what
I mean, oh, absolutely, I'm, I'mgame for anything.
Veronica Bane (54:17):
I'm just I'm so excited it's and I'm so excited
to talk about other people'sbooks.
That's why I like joint events,because it feels like just
people hyping each other uprather than like here, I am
talking about my book.
J.D. Myall (54:28):
Not only that, with us all being you like, we never
know who in our group will takeoff.
You know what I mean.
Yeah, like one of us, is thatbestseller through the roof?
Then you know, these littlevideos and affiliations and
associations might get us acouple more reads, exactly.
Veronica Bane (54:44):
And that's helping each other.
You know, and I just want morepeople to read YA and all these
great books that are coming out.
So, but to what you said, likeyou do not know what's going to
be the big book of 20.
And I'm hopefully there will bemultiple big books of 2025, but
you know, I love yours, though.
J.D. Myall (55:01):
That sounds super cool.
Veronica Bane (55:07):
I.
You know, um, I love yours,though that sounds, I love yours
too.
I'm like I.
I just it's weird to havepeople like now know about it.
I'm like, oh, you've just beenmine for so long and now you're
about to be other people's,which is exciting.
J.D. Myall (55:14):
But weird, so I haven't announced yet, so I'm
still waiting for my excitingbut weird oh my god the Drexel.
People know, they just knowthey can't say anything.
Veronica Bane (55:24):
Yeah, that's my, there were a few people and then
finally I did ask them.
I was like, hey, I'm going to,I was going to y'all west book
festival and, um, I was like I'mgoing to be around all these
authors, like I would reallylike to introduce myself and try
to do some networking, butobviously I'm not allowed to
talk about it and they're like,oh, oh no, you can talk to them
Like.
They're like please go network.
And so I got to talk to some ofthe authors from my imprint and
(55:47):
then from my publisher and theywere just so nice.
They were like oh my God, we'reso excited for you, we're going
to hype you up when yourannouncement.
And I'm so glad because if Ihad just I feel like done, just
like okay, I'm announced.
And like it had really been asecret, I think people wouldn't
have been able to jump in theway that they, the way that they
did.
So, yeah, so, I'm glad thatyou've told some that you have
(56:10):
and also I think it keeps yousane because I was going from
December.
I was like I've done things youpeople don't know.
I've done things like I've metdeadlines.
I will say, I think, veryrealistic view of publishing,
which I think is necessary.
Oh yeah, there are parts ofthis that are going to be hard,
and that's just the nature ofpublishing, and so that was
(56:31):
stuff you're not going to get onlike.
My author portal is not goingto be like.
By the way, publishing is notalways great about giving
support in this area Pay Like itwas seven months before I saw a
check.
J.D. Myall (56:44):
What other job do you work seven months before
you're paid?
I was just excited.
Veronica Bane (56:50):
I was so grateful because I was a teacher or I am
a teacher, and they got me myfirst notes like right away so
that I could start working overwinter break, and I was just
like that's so nice of them, I'mso glad.
J.D. Myall (57:06):
When you're new, you don't want to be the squeaky
wheel because you don't want tobe labeled difficult or them not
wanting to work with you.
I got hit by a car shortlyafter my book sold.
Oh geez, I was afraid to tellthem because I was like I don't
want them to think I'm unhealthyand unreliable.
So I was in the hospital forsix days like sending emails,
like all this.
Veronica Bane (57:25):
And, like the logical part of your brain,
knows God.
I would hope the people I'mworking with are going to
understand this Right.
J.D. Myall (57:31):
But I feel like that and this is, this is my dream
part.
It was just like yes, I I got.
Veronica Bane (57:39):
When I got the call from Michelle that the book
sold that same day my dad wentinto the hospital for his heart,
like randomly, and so I waslike I came home to my husband
and I had just been texting himabout the good stuff and so when
he saw me he was like yes, andthen I was like my dad's in the
(57:59):
hospital and he was like what?
And it was just like and samething with my agent was texting
me all these good things and Ididn't want to be the bummer, to
be like and he's fine now.
But it was just the calamity oftrying to understand that life
does happen and they willunderstand that you are a person
Right.
(58:20):
It just doesn't compute forwhatever reason.
J.D. Myall (58:23):
Yep, you're just scared of losing the dream
before the dream gets fulfilled.
Veronica Bane (58:28):
Well, and when I first got, it was also when all
that.
What was her name?
Kate Coran, the writer who leftall those negative reviews on
Goodreads, so that was like ohmy God, I heard about that.
J.D. Myall (58:41):
I didn't know her name.
Veronica Bane (58:41):
Yes, it was sweeping social media on the day
that I got I mean, nobody knew,but the day I got my deal and
literally I was watching someonewho had and obviously I would
never do anything like what shedid and I think it was
unfortunately deserved but I waswatching someone lose their
dream in real time, Like shemade horrible decisions to do
(59:02):
this and this and she losteverything.
And I was like, oh God, and Iknow that me being like I'm sick
, I need more days is not thesame as I went on a review spree
, but in my head I just thoughtoh, it can go away.
And that was terrifying.
J.D. Myall (59:20):
Very true, very true .
But when it's in stores, thatcan't go away, that's permanent.
That's done.
You achieved that.
You did that.
Celebrate it.
Yes.
Speaker 4 (59:32):
That wraps up today's Craft Chat Chronicles with JD
Moyle.
Thanks for joining us.
If you liked the episode,please comment, subscribe and
share.
If you liked the episode,please comment, subscribe and
share.
For show notes, writingworkshops and tips, head to
jdmacom.
That's jdmayorcom.
(59:53):
While you're there, join JD'smailing list for updates,
giveaways and more.
Thank you.
Welcome to Craft Chat Chronicles, the go-to podcast
for tips on craftingbest-selling fiction.
Here at Craft Chat Chronicles,we bring you expert interviews,
insights and tips on writing,publishing and marketing.
Join the conversation andembark on a new chapter in your
(00:26):
writing journey.
For workshops, show notes andmore information, visit
jdmayacom.
J.D. Myall (00:33):
That's jdmaylcom In season two, episode three of
Craft Chat Chronicles.
We have debut author VeronicaBain.
Veronica is going to be tellingyou a little bit about the
debut experience, her publishingjourney and her new novel,
difficult Girls.
It'll be a fun chat.
Thanks for joining us forSeason 2, episode 3 of Craft
(00:58):
Chat Chronicles.
Veronica Bane (01:00):
Oh, sorry, I'm popping on my headphones.
I was like those will probablyhelp with background noise.
Thank you for doing this today.
I know it was kind of at thelast moment, you're fine.
J.D. Myall (01:16):
Tell me about when you're writing journey and all
that good stuff.
Veronica Bane (01:19):
Yeah.
So I announced my young adultdebut novel yesterday and I'm so
excited.
I've been keeping that secretsince December and I'm not a
great secret keeper I'm not aterrible one, but I'm not a
great one.
So I have been writing since Imean professionally for I think
(01:43):
the last seven to eight yearsI've done mostly ghost writing,
primarily for adult romance, butfor other genres as well, and I
just love writing.
So just kind of doing whateverjob I was able to do that was
writing adjacent.
I'm also a high school Englishteacher and I also teach
creative writing at the highschool I work at.
And I'm also a high schoolEnglish teacher and I also teach
(02:04):
creative writing at the highschool I work at.
And I'm just really excited tosee this journey come to
fruition after many, many years.
J.D. Myall (02:14):
To put your mind at ease, I've never talked to a
debut and it's actually theirfirst novel.
Everybody like Yili Siegel inher book I'm not dying with you
tonight Got an NAACP image awardnomination.
Beth New York times bestselleryeah, and she was 10 books in.
Yeah, her debut was announced.
Veronica Bane (02:31):
I don't necessarily believe everything
happens for a reason, but Ithink for my journey, everything
happened for a reason.
With this specific journey,timing I'm I feel really lucky
that the timing worked out theway that it did, but it was a
weird, um, you know, seven oreight years of ghost writing, of
just being like, oh it's, it'sreally not me, but it is me.
J.D. Myall (02:50):
this is weird now what I think it is is I think
that I think a lot of newauthors go in with blinders on
because they don't realize thatlike it's more competitive than
professional sports yeah, it'slike just getting published.
Veronica Bane (03:13):
Getting a book deal is like making it to the
olympics yeah, catch yourself inthe back, doesn't matter when
you do it that's a phenomenalfeat that a lot of people,
unfortunately, will neverexperience.
J.D. Myall (03:22):
You know what I mean yeah, no, it's my students.
Veronica Bane (03:26):
I tell them as one of my fun facts at the
beginning of the year that Ighost write, and obviously I
don't say who for NDAs.
But they're like why don't youjust write your own book?
As if the thought has not.
They're like you should justwrite your own with your own
name.
I'm like yeah, I know.
J.D. Myall (03:43):
And then with like Working on it Exactly, and then
like, first you have to get theskill level up because it is so
competitive, but then once youget the skill level up, it's
still market is a big thing.
So you know, if you're writingawesome historicals and this is
at a time when historicalsaren't moving much, yeah, you
know it's still hard.
Veronica Bane (04:01):
Yeah, 100 percent .
You know it's still hard, yeah,100%.
I've been popping over toTwitter and all of them and I
can see the middle gradediscourse is running.
It's so interesting to seeeveryone saying middle grade is,
you know, dead, middle grade isnot selling.
And I feel like a few years agothe advice was oh, everyone
(04:21):
should try to get into middlegrade because it's the only
genre or not genre, but agerange that's selling and that's
guaranteed to always sell.
And it's just like, yeah, youknow, the advice of yesterday is
not necessarily the advice oftomorrow, so you've got to just
write what you love and hopethat the market aligns yeah, I
feel like, with the market.
J.D. Myall (04:44):
That's a tricky thing too, because I couldn't
even like advice to new writersand say chase the market,
because the market changes.
Yeah, what you're writing todaywon't be a factor two years
from now.
Veronica Bane (04:57):
Yeah, 100%, it's a journey, and any, and it also
takes.
I mean, I'm a fairly quickwriter, but even a fairly quick
writer, by the time you finishthat draft it's you know,
there's no guarantee, and evenif I think of that writer, that,
um, right after Taylor Swiftand Travis Kelsey came out as a
couple tried to publish their uh, taylor Swift Travis Kelsey
(05:19):
book and then immediately it gottaken down Cause I'm sure Ms
Swift sued.
It's like, even if you can takeadvantage of the market, you
can't.
Really Well, and I apologize ifI sound a little congested, I'm
getting over COVID, of course,but um, but yeah, so I apologize
(05:40):
if I sound a little under theweather.
J.D. Myall (05:44):
You don't sound fine .
Veronica Bane (05:46):
Or maybe it just adds to my allure.
J.D. Myall (05:48):
Yeah, there you go.
So let's go back to yourpublishing journey.
Yes, so how did you come across?
How did you get intoghostwriting?
How did you start that path?
Veronica Bane (06:03):
I just made sure I let my agent know I'm
available for any and allopportunities.
I want to write whatever thatlooks like and I I had she had
my manuscript and that was usedas a as a sample to pitch me for
jobs.
But I I just made myselfavailable and I've had a few
people ask me how do I get intoghostwriting?
And it is such a referencebased part of the industry that
(06:26):
I feel like there are.
There are people who postthemselves to read Z or
something like that, but for meit was just reference.
This reference would lead tothis reference, and I just made
sure I kept delivering on themanuscripts that I got to work
on.
J.D. Myall (06:42):
That's good I am.
Have you done the IP that I gotto?
Veronica Bane (06:45):
work on.
J.D. Myall (06:45):
That's good.
Veronica Bane (06:45):
I am.
Have you done the IP?
I have, yeah, that, and thatwas also just me saying.
Whatever comes along, I willgive it a go.
J.D. Myall (06:58):
And that's what you have to do, like, yeah, yeah,
make a career of it, cause evenwith your own titles, a lot of
times you know to keep aconstant flow of money.
You want to do that.
Veronica Bane (07:05):
Yeah yeah, and my IP wasn't the thing that ended
up taking off, but I feel likethe just me taking the job and
trying it.
I felt like.
I feel like it felt almost likea like a TV writer's room, like
a collaborative process.
And I'm not.
I really love havingcollaboration at every step of
the process.
I know some authors are theyneed a little bit more I don't
(07:27):
know how to say it but kind ofindependent time with their book
, which I do love.
But I also love when otherpeople get in and give their
ideas or pitch things and I cantake those ideas and run with
them.
So it felt like a natural wayto work.
And I don't think IP is foreverybody, because I do think
some authors, they need to be inkind of control of every step
of the way.
(07:47):
I I just, I just love writing.
So you give me an idea, whichis why it feels like TV
everybody just kind of in a roompopping ideas.
J.D. Myall (07:58):
Um, what um.
Who did you do IP for?
Can you say, or did you signNDA?
Veronica Bane (08:02):
I signed an NDA.
Okay, sadly, you do IP, for Canyou say or did?
J.D. Myall (08:08):
you sign NDA.
I signed an NDA, okay, sadly.
Veronica Bane (08:16):
So tell me about your current title.
Yes, so my book is DifficultGirls.
It is about a girl who gets herdream job at a local theme park
, only to find out that a starperformer is missing and that
disappearance is possiblyconnected to a murder from 20
years ago.
And she just can't help herself.
She has to start investigatingand it's about what makes girls
difficult and the ones who havebeen told they're too much or
(08:37):
they come on too strong, andjust kind of how they find their
place in the world.
Because I was definitely one ofthose girls.
So it's my, it's kind of mylove later love letter to kids
like that Love that Was it afull manuscript.
This was a full manuscript soldon submission yeah.
J.D. Myall (08:55):
Um, who did your book sell to?
I know you just announced thisstuff, so give me all the yeah,
yeah.
Veronica Bane (09:00):
So my book sold to Penguin Random House, slash
Delacorte, to Krista Marino, andshe is literally my dream
editor.
And I remember reading One ofUs is Lying way back when, and
just being in awe of kind of howtightly paced that book was,
(09:20):
and it felt like somethingcompletely different than what I
had seen in.
I'm a high school teacher and Ilove YA, so I read a lot of YA
and I just I was like, oh, Ilove this, I hope one day I can
write something like this.
And so now, to be full circle,and she's my editor, I just feel
really overwhelmed withgratitude.
J.D. Myall (09:38):
Awesome.
Tell me the story behind thisstory.
How did you get the idea foryour current novel?
Veronica Bane (09:48):
okay, I do have.
I'm pretty sure I'm allowed tosay stuff like this, but you're
my first interview, so give me,give me a little bit of grace.
But, um, I worked at a themepark growing up and I worked
there for many years.
I was a theme park usher, so Iwas basically a, you know, a
bouncer for the shows and madesure that kids didn't run on
(10:09):
stage, and I was also a princess, and so I, I, um, that was the
best job I've ever had, becauseI got to just sit in a throne
for an hour and then I'd go backto the green room and, um,
recuperate, and so I mean I missthat shot.
But so I loved theme parks andI've always loved theme parks,
(10:33):
and I think it was just in mybrain that experience started
merging with an idea for amurder mystery and just kind of
gelled together.
And then I had an idea forGreta, the protagonist, and
again that she was drawn fromthat girl who just is so much
and just has, she doesn't knowher place, so she just keeps
(10:56):
bounding from experience toexperience and is desperate to
find where she can belong, andso those elements all started
swirling together and became thebook.
J.D. Myall (11:08):
Love that.
When is your book going tolaunch?
When is it going to be instores?
Veronica Bane (11:12):
Summer 2025.
J.D. Myall (11:15):
Awesome.
And do you have any launchparties planned?
How are you going to promote it?
Oh God.
Veronica Bane (11:20):
I have Sorry for my barking dog.
I have a local bookstore that Iam absolutely in love with that
I am hoping I will get tolaunch the book at, or at least
do some kind of signing, justbecause it's called Annabelle's
Book Club.
It is a bookstore that is ownedand run by a young adult.
(11:41):
So it's just, it's incredibleand she's so smart and has such
great taste and she's alwaysthere whenever you go into the
store and I just it's one of themost gorgeous bookstores I've
ever been in.
But I love many bookstoresbecause I feel like they all
have their own personality.
So I would hope maybe there,but there are many others that I
(12:04):
love as well.
So I just I just can't believeI get to play on a launch party
period.
I'm still in that.
That part of it.
J.D. Myall (12:15):
So what does your agent relationship look like?
Veronica Bane (12:18):
Oh my gosh, I I feel so lucky to have signed
with Michelle.
She, she what I think.
J.D. Myall (12:28):
The agency is she from again?
Veronica Bane (12:29):
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, no, michelle Wolfson,
she's at Wolfson Literary Agency.
I have felt so fought for andsupported every step of the way.
I had a lot of anxiety when Ifirst signed with.
I had an agent before her whoended up leaving agenting.
But then now I've been withMichelle most of my career but I
(12:53):
was so scared to just send anemail.
I didn't want to bother anybodyand that's my generalized
anxiety coming through.
But I just was sure and I thinkeven writers without any extra
anxiety have that fear thatthey're bothering their agent or
they're being a burden.
And Michelle has done such agood job to just make me realize
(13:15):
.
No, we're a partnership andshe's there to help me and she's
there for a quick question orshe's there to talk me off a
ledge, which in this industryhappens a lot.
Just in that we've had a lot ofups and downs and she's never
given up on me and I have neverlikewise given up on her.
(13:37):
Just, I knew we were going toget here, I just had to keep
writing.
And but I think also ourrelationship part of it is that
the writing didn't necessarilyalways look like, okay, I'm
going to sell this book.
It was.
Let me get you any writingopportunity that I can get you
and that's how I've, you know,made.
(13:59):
I have a day job, but I've madea living as a writer and that's
meant the world.
J.D. Myall (14:06):
And when you're doing your own titles like how
does that work, Do you?
Do you go with her with a form,with a full book or a formed
idea, or do you say these arethe things I'm thinking about
which ones do you think you cansell?
Veronica Bane (14:24):
I think so.
Part of it has been, you know,going to her with ideas, but
she'll also.
What I really like is she'slike if you like it, go try.
You know, if you think thatthere's something here, she's.
I've given her YA contemporarynovels.
I've given her YA thrillers.
I've written middle grade, I'vewritten adult, and she's always
just like give it a shot.
(14:45):
If you, if you really believein it, I believe in it and um,
and we will collaborate.
We'll brainstorm ideas and talkthrough things and I just I
always feel she's in my corner,no matter what I am writing, and
I know that there are.
I have some author friends whohave said that their agent was
(15:06):
kind of a one book.
Like, I like this idea, but ifyou come to me with an idea that
isn't my jam or I don't knowhow to sell, and that is just a
different relationship, and Ithink for me, though, having
someone kind of find somethingto love in your book and to
(15:28):
cheer you on is really helpful,and there are definitely ideas
where she's like I think thiswould work better than this, but
I've always just felt supported.
That she's you know she'strying to help me have a career.
Apologies for the cat.
J.D. Myall (15:45):
I was holding my dog when we started.
Veronica Bane (15:47):
This is leftover from Zoom teaching.
As soon as he sees me on a Zoom, he's like, and now I make an
appearance.
J.D. Myall (15:55):
Let my fans adore me .
Veronica Bane (15:57):
Yes exactly, and then I can look like an evil
character from a super villainpetting for the camera.
Does my answer?
Did that sound okay, or did Ijust ramble?
You sounded great like a supervillain petting for the camera.
Does my answer?
Did that sound okay, or?
J.D. Myall (16:07):
did I just ramble?
You're sounding great, like Isaid.
Thank you.
Veronica Bane (16:10):
Thank you for.
J.D. Myall (16:10):
It's not a test sweetie, you can relax oh my
goodness, thank you.
Veronica Bane (16:15):
So you also teach creative writing, I do.
J.D. Myall (16:18):
What do you teach your students about the
beginning of a novel, like, howdo you hook readers and keep
them engaged?
Veronica Bane (16:25):
We do every year.
We do National Novel WritingMonth on kind of a smaller scale
, but so we focus a lot on theidea that your story should
spring from.
Who is your protagonist?
What do they want more thananything?
What do they do to get whatthey want?
(16:46):
And then what stands in the wayof them getting what they want
and how.
It always comes back tocharacter.
And we study the Hunger Games,which I think is as close to a
perfect novel in terms I mean YA, but anything honestly, as it
gets, just with how tight it is.
And we look at how that openingchapter really establishes
(17:09):
Katniss's want.
She wants Prim to be safe, nomatter what, and she'll do
anything, even if it's sacrificefor life.
And it's just such a clearindication because I think that
you can have a hook, that is,you know, explosions and running
and all of that, but if it'snot tied to character, your
(17:32):
audience isn't, I think, goingto be in it for the long haul.
And so I think an openingreally has to center on
character and who they are andwhat they want and how we get a
sense of the lengths they'rewilling to go to get that.
J.D. Myall (17:48):
Love that.
What makes a good villain?
Veronica Bane (17:53):
I think what makes a good villain is that the
same things that make a goodprotagonist, because I feel like
we've all heard it, butsomething I always tell my
students is nobody thinksthey're the villain.
They think they are theprotagonist of their story and
they are just doing the samething.
They want something and they'rewilling to go to great lengths
to get it, and generally thatwant is at odds with the
(18:14):
protagonist.
Whatever they want, and I thinkthat makes for great tension
and great stakes, and just itmakes them a real person too.
I feel like every writer shouldgo through the experience of
trying to consider their storyfrom the villain's perspective.
And what would the book beabout if the villain got to tell
(18:35):
their side, so to speak?
J.D. Myall (18:38):
Love that.
How do you maintain tension I?
Veronica Bane (18:42):
think, I think continuing to bring it back to
character, but also being awareof if the book is getting away
from you, and some of that comesout in editing, I think.
I think writers sometimes haveto free themselves to write the
first draft that needs to exist,the first draft that needs to
(19:09):
exist, and I want to say it'sI'll have to look up who said
this later, but they said thefirst part of writing a book is
putting sand in the sandbox andthen from there you can make the
castle.
But you can't make the castleif you don't have any sand.
And that's kind of.
I think where tension comes inis going back, and I like to let
my book sit for a bit and thenput it on my Kindle where I
can't touch it, and go somewherelike either go get my nails
(19:31):
done or go sit in a park orsomewhere where I don't have
access to my computer and justforce myself to read it at that
messy first draft and see whereit's lagging and then really
pull those parts out.
And sometimes that meanspulling out entire chapters,
entire POVs.
But that tension is an elusivething.
(19:52):
But I think, if you're, atleast for me, if I'm constantly
worrying about tension as I'mwriting the first draft.
I think that's another way toget lost.
I think sometimes I just haveto go from my outline, do the
best I can and then tighten itup later.
J.D. Myall (20:08):
So you're a plotter?
That was going to be my nextquestion.
Veronica Bane (20:10):
Yes, yes, I don't think.
I think plotting allows me tobe more creative and spontaneous
within the book.
I don't necessarily adhere toevery part of the outline like
things may take a turn, but itat least gives me a guiding
(20:33):
light and then when I get to thescene, I may change it
completely from the outline, butat least I had some ground that
I knew was happening beneath me.
And also I just I will say Ihave ADHD and I think if I did
not have an outline, we wouldhave no idea where we were going
(20:56):
.
We would really be justthrowing things and trying to
figure it out as we go.
So I think that the outlinehelps me have some foundation,
but then I still get to play.
And I also think, when I'mstarting a book, before I do
anything, I write a firstchapter.
I see what the voice wants tobe, I see who the characters are
(21:18):
.
I couldn't go just outline.
And then I need to get a senseof who they are and then I can
outline.
J.D. Myall (21:28):
Love that I outline too, but I'm never 100% true to
the outline.
Yeah, take over and deviatelittle places.
Veronica Bane (21:35):
Exactly.
Well, I think some of the bestplot twists come from where
you're like oh, I wasn't evenexpecting that when I wrote the
outline, but now I see that's100% the way to go.
J.D. Myall (21:48):
Love that, Love that .
What has been the well,actually, I'll give you one more
question, right?
Veronica Bane (21:58):
You can be as many questions as you want.
I'm homesick, I'm dying to kill.
Wow, you feel better here.
I know I'm homesick to kill.
Wow, you feel better here.
I know I'm hoping I'm at thetail end because it's been a
week so how do you close an Alba?
J.D. Myall (22:14):
well, close it out.
Veronica Bane (22:20):
That's a really great question.
I think that last chapter I hada professor in college that was
sure you needed to know yourending before you wrote your
book and he actually had uswrite an entire book of endings
where we just wrote the end ofwhatever these stories might be
and I liked parts of thatexperiment.
(22:42):
But I also realized I don'tnecessarily have like an end for
sure stuck in my head, even ifit's on the outline, because I
feel like so much of it has tobe tying up threads, making sure
that the emotional catharsisrelated to the characters is
there, making sure that theemotional catharsis related to
the characters is there.
(23:03):
So I think I have like fuzzyversion and then I have
obviously whatever the outlinesays.
But the outline usually I thinksays something like wrap up
well, so future me is like great, I'll try.
But I think something thatfeels true to the character.
It's either they're gettingwhat they wanted from the
beginning or they're realizingthat they want something
(23:25):
different and it's changed overthe course of them learning
about themselves.
And I think usually it fallsinto that latter category.
J.D. Myall (23:33):
Love it, love it.
And your book is like mysterythriller.
Right it is.
It is what makes a good mysterythriller.
What are the elements of that?
Veronica Bane (23:40):
Oh boy, I love when and I read a lot of mystery
thrillers it's one of myfavorite.
It's obviously one of myfavorite things to write, but
it's also one of my favoritethings to read.
And I like when they outsmartme, because I really try to
outsmart them from the second Iopen the book and I'm like, okay
(24:01):
, I feel like it's usually oneof the characters that's
introduced early and it's notthe red herring and it's not.
You know, maybe it's someonewho seems too innocent.
I like to figure it out, I liketo puzzle it out and I like
when they best me.
I like when I don't get itright, but I also want it to
(24:22):
feel like I should have seenthat.
I really appreciate when anauthor can make me have that
reaction, because I think a goodmystery thriller it's somebody
that makes sense, but it's notsomebody that you expected.
I think that's that dance youhave to walk, or dance you have
to do line, you have to walk.
J.D. Myall (24:47):
Love that, love that .
What was your biggest surpriseso far in the publishing journey
?
Veronica Bane (24:56):
I think at this point it's not.
It is no longer a surprise, butI think it was a surprise
initially and it's always asurprise to my students when I
talk to them about it and it'show collaborative it is.
I think we think of writing asa very solitary exercise.
Someone goes over to theirancient typewriter and they get
(25:17):
their cup of tea and they justgo at it.
Or they go to a coffee shopwith their laptop where they're
surrounded by people but they'reworking by themselves and it's
really not.
From the very first moment thatyou send out a query letter
you're asking for your firstcollaborator and actually before
(25:38):
that you should have betareaders and critique partners.
And that's been an essentialpart of my process is I have a
writing group that I meet withevery other week and we bring
about 1500 words and we talk itout and we give feedback on big
plot things and character points, but also on line level, and
(26:00):
that's made my writing so muchbetter and I think if I had
tried to just be one of thosesolitary writers, I wouldn't
have improved, I wouldn't havegrown in my craft and I know not
every writer works that way butI think the more comfortable
you get with sharing your workand learning how to find the
note under the note.
There have been plenty of timesin a critique group where I got
(26:21):
a note and I was like, okay,that specific note or their
suggested fix doesn't feel right, but it's telling me I have
this problem underneath that Ican figure out how to fix and I
love that.
And my editor I am so gratefulthat she gives notes and some of
them have really pushed me andpushed the book and initially I
(26:43):
was hesitant and I had to go sitwith them.
And then I came have reallypushed me and pushed the book
and initially I was hesitant andI had to go sit with them.
And then I came back and I waslike, oh, she's right, I know,
and I hate it and I love it andit's just part of the process
and I feel just so grateful tobe in a business where that is
the case.
So I'm glad it wasn't solitary,but that was definitely the
(27:06):
biggest misconception, I think,going in.
J.D. Myall (27:09):
And where did you get your critique group members?
How did you find them?
Veronica Bane (27:14):
We have known each other.
I think for now some of us haveknown each other for nine years
and came together from othervarious, you know writing
classes that we would take andthen branched off and um and
yeah, and we all write differentthings and it's just.
It's been really.
It's been really cool to seethe different projects that
we've all come up with over theyears.
(27:34):
But yeah, I think they startedout in different classes and
then just yeah, well, what stateare you in?
California.
J.D. Myall (27:44):
Oh cause?
Because I I think I interviewedyour um agent mate.
Uh, becky, yeah, yeah, you saidBecky.
I thought that that's who youwere talking about, but then I
was like, well, becky's a commonname, it might be another no,
she was.
Veronica Bane (27:58):
She was really excited because I told her I was
like, yeah, I'd reached out tooand, um, you know, I suddenly
have free time, but so in someways it's a blessing in disguise
, but yeah, I can't a couple ofdays she was talking to me in
the thick of the uh busted pipeand stuff too, like I don't know
.
J.D. Myall (28:19):
She did warn me, she was.
Veronica Bane (28:20):
she was like she was sweet, and then I found out
at the end that she was dealingwith some home crisis.
What a professional justpushing through.
J.D. Myall (28:29):
If I'm shifting a lot, it's because I'm sitting on
the hard floor in the dry house.
Great more thing.
What else was I going to askyou?
What else is I going to ask you?
What do you wish that you knewabout the writing journey and
(28:50):
being a professional writer whenyou were just starting out?
Veronica Bane (28:58):
it's not going to happen immediately, and that's
a good thing.
Like I am grateful that I gotto have so many years of craft
and development before my firstbook comes out and then I've
written so many books so thatI'm a little more prepared of
(29:21):
what to expect and the emotionaltoll, even of you know, I feel
like I feel like I got to not tonot to borrow my students slang
but I feel like I got to cook alittle longer.
I got to get to where I neededto be.
And that doesn't mean I'm notgoing to keep getting better.
(29:42):
I would hope that with everybook I get better at this, and
but I think if we were gettingbaby Veronica's first book that
I first went out with to getagents, I don't think that was
the journey I was supposed tohave.
So I think you know that thatversion of me would have been
really frustrated if I told herlike you got some time, but it's
(30:04):
all for the best.
J.D. Myall (30:06):
Very true, very true .
I'm deeply ashamed of the firstbook I wrote.
I'm mortified now.
That's how the world knew me.
Veronica Bane (30:22):
And I'll get a little deep, but you can take
what you need.
But my mom passed away suddenlywhen I was.
I just I think I'm trying toremember where I was in my I
think I can't remember if I'dsigned with Michelle yet or not.
I actually don't think I had,but I, with the past agent, we'd
been on submission with a bookand then she said she was
(30:44):
leaving agenting.
But when my mom died, I feellike the dream changed for a
little bit because I questionedam I going to be able to write?
Is this going to mean anythingto me now that my mom's not here
to see this?
And that made writing hard fora bit.
(31:07):
And this book that I ended upselling was the first book that
I wrote after my mom died, andwriting books after my mom died
just made me reevaluate and mademe more willing to take risks,
because I just wanted to tellstories that were really
authentic and that dealt withgrief.
I felt like the way I'd seengrief in books for so long was
(31:28):
so disconnected from whatactually happened.
And even in books and TV andmovie it was.
You know, someone is very sadfor a montage and that's it.
And grief just wasn't like thatfor me.
It was obviously excruciatinglypainful, but there were also
weird moments, and I don't wantto say happy moments, but just
(31:49):
strange moments where you werehappy, but it was.
How can I be happy in a worldwhere my mom doesn't exist?
And so there were complicatedfeelings that I was eager to put
into my writing and I I think,now that I've kind of gained the
craft to kind of deal withthose things, I'm I'm happy to
(32:11):
be writing about them, not happyto have gained the life
experience to be able to writeabout them, but happy to be
writing them for someone like mewho went through that and
didn't see that kind ofrepresented in what they were
reading.
J.D. Myall (32:25):
I love that.
That's a great answer.
Are there any tools that youfound like really useful, or
helpful during the time when youwere querying or during your
writing process, or yeah, Ithink writing process, I feel
like I've tried.
Veronica Bane (32:40):
I'm always willing to read a craft book and
give something a shot, becauseI feel like kind of you got to
try on all the things to seewhat fits.
And I used to be very when Iwould outline.
I would always outline with thehero's journey and then I would
adjust it later.
But sometimes I find thatoutlines are like that.
(33:01):
They're a good starting offpoint to show me what I'm
missing.
But especially with Thriller, Iwas like the hero's journey
just doesn't quite align to whatI want it to do, and so I feel
like in terms of resources, Iwould say, but I feel like every
(33:22):
writer should honestly just goto their local bookstore and go
to.
At least my local bookstore hasa table of, you know, craft
books and it's everything fromsave the cat to um story genius
to character workbooks, and justflip through and see what looks
(33:43):
good and try it and if it fits,great, and if not, maybe it
sparked something else for you.
So I think that those, thosewould be kind of tools.
I also I just I love a notecard when I'm plotting initially
, especially if I'm writing dualPOV or multi POV is each
character gets a color note cardand, like Greta was always
(34:07):
green, and I write their journeyand then I move the cards
around and I see how everythinglooks together.
And I've had a critique partnercome over and we feel like that
, that meme of Charlie day wherehe's like this and going
through, okay, is the murdercoming off the way we need it to
?
And so I think note cards arehonestly probably my biggest
(34:29):
tool that I've used.
J.D. Myall (34:31):
Awesome, awesome, awesome.
When you talk to Becky, tellher I tried cat pet.
She was mentioning that withher tools.
Yeah, love it.
I posted my first cat pet video.
Veronica Bane (34:42):
Oh, I love that.
J.D. Myall (34:43):
Oh, I love that, I love that yeah she was like no,
it's easy and I do a lot ofvideos on there.
Veronica Bane (34:49):
So yep, well, I have to make my.
I made all my announcements forall the other platforms, but
TikTok's my last one, because Iwas like, oh, I gotta wear
makeup for this.
And then I was like I have towear makeup for my interview, so
then we'll film.
After that I felt funny becauseI did get in terms of tools.
I got myself a little tripodand a little light and was
(35:13):
trying to take it very seriouslyand I had them in my writing
bag at school and the kids werelike, miss, why do you have a
tripod and a light?
Because I think they werefilming something for a project.
And I was like, oh, you canborrow this.
And I was like, oh, I'm tryingto be serious on TikTok.
And they were really cute.
They were like you should justbe yourself, they'll love you.
I was like, will they?
J.D. Myall (35:36):
Oh my gosh, Low key.
I was a little embarrassed whenthe carpet guy walked over
because I have like these bigorange reflectors, like big gold
reflectors.
Then a little light in front ofme and I'm sitting on the floor
because I told you he's workingon the carpet.
So I'm sitting on tile floorwith a webcam and these things
and he like looks in like whatis she doing?
I know right, you're done.
Veronica Bane (35:55):
Okay, thank you this is what it takes, man, we
gotta, we gotta look our best.
Sometimes the natural lightingis not giving what it needs to
give, so like ever.
J.D. Myall (36:06):
Oh my god, I had one I did at my parents house.
It was like it was terrible.
Veronica Bane (36:14):
I know I well, because I get off of school so
late that I'm like, oh we got afake natural light because we
don't have it anymore.
So, yeah, awesome awesome.
J.D. Myall (36:25):
I'm trying to think what else would you like to know
readers and aspiring writers toknow about you and your journey
that we didn't cover?
Veronica Bane (36:41):
I think one thing I would caution aspiring
writers about is taking advicethat doesn't fit you.
I heard a lot when I wasstarting out and I heard it also
at I studied creative writingtoo.
You have to write every singleday.
If you don't write every singleday, you're not a real writer.
(37:04):
You have to put your butt inthe chair and you have to put
words on the page, and I think Iwill buy into that.
But only if writing doesn'tnecessarily look like writing to
me.
If I go for a walk, that mighthelp me break a story just as
much as me sitting and typing onthe keyboard.
If I go and I get breakfast bymyself, that might help me
(37:29):
figure out a character.
If I go talk to a friend and wejust are chatting.
If I go see a movie, if I reada book, those things might fill
the creative well, versus mesitting at my laptop trying to
force something that's just notready to be forced.
And I used to really think,especially because, okay, well,
if you're doing this as a job,you have to just push through,
(37:53):
and what I found is, yes, butpushing through is doing those
other things that I talked about, and then the writing comes so
much easier.
But what I think I found is, ifI was just sitting at my
computer trying to force thesewords, I just felt ashamed and I
felt wrong.
So I think I would tell writershear the writing advice out.
(38:14):
But also you might have to comeat it a different way, and
that's okay.
And especially, like I said,because I have ADHD, I had to
figure out what worked for meand a lot of times I use an
accountability buddy where Ihave a body doubling.
So my friend will come overwho's also a writer, with her
laptop, with her dog, and ourdogs play and we do 25 minutes
(38:36):
and we you know she's there, Ican hear her typing.
So I'm like, oh, I have to typetoo, and then our 25 minutes is
up and we get five minutes tochat and then 25 more minutes of
writing and the dogs play.
So I don't have to.
You know, my dog's got hisexercise and I've gotten my
writing done, and it's one ofthe only ways I've been able to
make it so that I write afterwork, because otherwise, as a
(38:58):
teacher, I am so exhausted.
So I had to come to that andfigure that out and and make the
advice work for me.
J.D. Myall (39:07):
So I love that.
I forgot to ask you earlier.
How did the call go?
Tell me about that.
Veronica Bane (39:14):
Oh, with agent or editor or both Both.
Well, so my agent call.
I'm going back all these years.
But, uh, my agent call.
I just I was so nervous, I wasso excited, but I'd been through
it before because I had myfirst agent, so I actually had
(39:36):
um, she was not my only offer ofrep and I I felt like I went
into that call more prepared toask for what I needed and also
less distracted by what I didnot need, and I was really able
to see are we a personality fitand do we see the same things in
(40:00):
the book and does she love thethings that I love?
And then can she help me seethe things that I need to see to
make this better?
And I just remember feelinglike, oh, this is right, this is
right and I am, yeah, I wasright.
I'm glad the other agent waswonderful, but I think that
(40:25):
Michelle was the right call.
J.D. Myall (40:29):
And your editor call .
Veronica Bane (40:32):
I cannot.
I truly don't think I can gushenough about Krista.
She is and she has a great team.
I get to work a lot with Kristaand well, obviously Krista, but
her assistant, lydia as well,who's an editor now on her own
and she's also an author, and Ijust Krista, saw things in this
(40:54):
book and loved this book in away that I needed it to be loved
.
That she saw my little weirdoand said, yes, I am all in on
this difficult girl.
And when you write charactersI'm sure you can appreciate this
I feel like sometimes when youwrite characters that might get
(41:18):
called, I'll just say, difficultbecause of the title, I think
sometimes you can question, do Ireally release this one out
into the world?
And so to have your editor beall in and say, no, I love this
and we need to even make hershine more, that just I was like
(41:43):
, oh, we are in good hands and Icould not.
I could not have been happieron that call.
J.D. Myall (41:49):
And you mentioned the Hunger Games.
Veronica Bane (41:50):
Katniss was difficult and she's loved by
everybody, that's and you knowand it's funny that you say that
, because when I teach it,sometimes the kids are like, oh
God, katniss, like why are youdoing that?
Like she'll be like be like, oh, clearly he's doing that
because he's trying to kill meand we're over here like no girl
.
Clearly he loves you.
This is love that you are.
(42:11):
But there's something so realabout that and I think Suzanne
Collins portrays that so welland that's what I needed an
editor to see with Greta thatshe has those flaws but she is
trying.
She doesn't know exactly how tohandle things the right way and
(42:32):
I really wanted someone who sawthat teens do not act the right
way 98% of the time.
J.D. Myall (42:39):
We certainly didn't.
Veronica Bane (42:41):
No, if anything, being a teacher has given me the
uh, the comfort to watch themmake the same mistakes.
Like all of them, they all makethese mistakes, and they're
still wonderful people, but theyjust they're just finding their
way, and you got to make thosemistakes, and so I want to see
that in every book I write andthat's what I love to read the
(43:03):
most is the characters whoyou're screaming at like please
turn around, don't, do not pass,go.
This is terrible, you are goingto suffer, but they do it
anyway because that's how humanbeings are.
J.D. Myall (43:15):
Why did you choose to write for young readers Now?
I'm not asking this the wayother people ask this.
I say that because you know Iwrite for teens too and I love
YA.
Some people ask it like it'slike well, what are you going to
write grownups?
Veronica Bane (43:31):
Yes, Well, they, they, they ask it like it is a
consolation prize.
Like oh you know, why are youwriting the baby books Like when
are you going to make the jumpto the big leagues?
And I'm like, no, this is thisis where I want to be.
I I think that there issomething so powerful about when
(43:52):
you are a young adult and youhave everything in front of you
and you have all your mistakesjust around the corner and you
have plenty of mistakes behindyou and you're in that period
where you are finding who youare, finding what you care about
and getting into the messy partof life.
(44:16):
I never like when people saythat teens are going to get to
the real world, because I teachteenagers and I promise you they
are already in the real world.
They are already dealing withthe consequences of our actions,
the consequences of the world'sactions.
They are in it and they aredealing with it every single day
.
But they are dealing with itwithout the experience that we
(44:40):
have.
Like they just have to fly intothis and and hope for the best
and be willing to get theirhearts broken, and and I I just
think there is something sobeautiful and wonderful about
that, and I also think I writebooks hopefully, for the version
of me that would have loved toread a messy girl making
(45:03):
terrible decisions and seeingthat it's okay, because I
certainly made plenty and Ididn't know whenever every
decision I made I thought wasgoing to be the end of the world
and to see a book where youmake the bad decision.
Life is not over.
You get through it and you makemore bad decisions.
J.D. Myall (45:26):
I love that Exactly, and that's real life.
It's messy, it's complicated,it has to be figured out.
We kiss frogs before we findPrince Charming.
Veronica Bane (45:36):
Yes, and I love writing for adults too, because
I write both, know I write bothand and.
But I think there's justthere's a richness to each
experience and and I think thatpeople assume that sometimes in
young adult that that richnessis absent, and I I just could
(45:59):
not disagree with that more,because I think some of the
richest novels that I get toteach, that I get to read, are
in young adult, and I love that.
J.D. Myall (46:10):
And they're complex, just like adult novels and for
me myself and not even just me,but a lot of people, a lot of
adult people read young adultnovels.
I like McQueen's Pacey.
In my new program we had toread a lot of literary and it
was slowly killing me becauseI'm not a literary fiction fan.
I like the plot and the paceand the big emotions in YA.
Veronica Bane (46:33):
Yeah, those big emotions.
I think that's also why a lotof people like romance.
I think there's something forme, me, there's something to be
gained with every type of book,and I think if people say I only
read this or I only read this,you're cutting out an entire
part of the menu and I don'tknow why you would want to do
(46:55):
that.
I, I feel like there issomething to be enjoyed in every
genre and every age convention,and and I'm going to keep my
options open because why not?
J.D. Myall (47:09):
What are you working on next?
Veronica Bane (47:14):
Another thriller, but I think that's all I'm
allowed to say.
J.D. Myall (47:18):
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
I heard from somebody Iinterviewed that has like post
debut that after the book comesout there's like often a post
debut like depression orwhatever.
Yep.
So hopefully that's not truefor either of us.
But I'm just warning you, sincethey said that, cause they're
(47:39):
like they said that you're likeon a rush and you're excited
until it happens.
Then it happens and then youcome down off of that.
Veronica Bane (47:46):
Yes, I have heard that and I'm sure it will hit
me.
I read in a book.
I read a book before and afterthe book deal and they talk
about that at length and theysaid you know, have a day for
yourself, like I think I'll havea day where I get like a facial
, I get my nails done, I got agood book to go read at the
beach, something where I'm doingsomething for me.
(48:07):
Um, but I also will say, havingghosts written a lot of books,
it's interesting to watch thelaunch as the ghost writer,
because you kind of get all ofthe good but none of the like.
It's just like I just watchedthat.
It just comes into the worldand then the world moves on and
(48:28):
you write another book and I'mhoping maybe I will say this and
then look back in a year andlaugh, but I'm hoping that I can
internalize some of that, asthis is just one book.
It is not your entire careerand you can be excited about
this moment, but this is not theend.
J.D. Myall (48:47):
Beautifully spoken.
Where can I connect with you?
Veronica Bane (48:54):
I am on all of the social media?
I feel like probably not, but Iam on TikTok Threads, instagram
.
Feels like there's more.
Twitter X as at Veronica Bain.
J.D. Myall (49:13):
Facebook.
Veronica Bane (49:15):
Yes, I'm on there too.
I don't think our readers are.
J.D. Myall (49:19):
They say that, I know, I know.
Veronica Bane (49:21):
They say you got to Romance is big on Facebook,
because I think there are someFacebook groups where they're
very active and they suggest,but I think for young adult no,
they're on TikTok.
J.D. Myall (49:34):
Do you write romance as well?
Veronica Bane (49:35):
I do.
Oh cool, I didn't know that.
Yeah, so I primarily ghostwrote romance.
So I primarily ghost wroteromance.
So but then I also I've draftedmy own.
So hopefully one day when I'm Iwant to write it all.
So but hopefully one day I geta chance to finish those up.
J.D. Myall (50:02):
That was another piece of advice I got from the
seasoned author that Iinterviewed the other day and
I'm passing it on in case it'suseful to you.
Yeah, when she was talkingabout the post-debut depression,
she was also saying that tosurvive financially as a writer,
you have to write it allbecause of the nine.
Yeah, I mean that is so.
That's when you do your middlegrade or your adult and you just
keep pushing.
Veronica Bane (50:20):
That is yes, I love that advice and I've heard
it myself and I think that'salso why I made it clear to
Michelle.
From the beginning I was like Ijust want to write, I love
story, I love characters, and so, whatever that looks like, I
want to do it, and so andluckily, I feel like that is
(50:43):
that I don't think I would havenecessarily written thriller if
I had gotten into my head like,no, you are this kind of writer.
I needed to stay open, and whenthat idea came, I was like, oh,
you're a thriller, great, we'llwrite you as a thriller.
J.D. Myall (50:58):
So Love it, love it, love it, love it.
I'm excited.
I'm excited for you, I'mexcited for me, I'm excited for
us both.
Veronica Bane (51:05):
I'm excited for you to have flooring eventually.
J.D. Myall (51:10):
This is really sad.
I feel like I just moved in.
Everything's piled up.
I'm sitting on empty floors.
It's crazy.
Veronica Bane (51:16):
And you're, and you're still getting all this
done and working on your ownbook.
When is your book coming out?
J.D. Myall (51:21):
It's coming out in fall 25.
The first one, it was a two-bitdeal, and then the second one
comes out in 26.
Veronica Bane (51:26):
Nice, that's so exciting.
I know I've added all the onesthat were on the spreadsheet for
Goodreads, but it was a blur oflike adding them all, so I'll
have to make sure I go in andfind yours specifically.
J.D. Myall (51:37):
I was telling Becky that what I would love for us to
do is, around everybody's debutdate, either go on live or do
like a Zoom you know what I mean, yeah, and rooting that person
on, and we could all plug ourbooks too and then like pitch it
and, you know, put it all onour socials and stuff like that
to help yes, stuff like that andpromote us at the same time.
Veronica Bane (51:57):
Yes, there's so much pressure to make your debut
stick Right and I know thatpeople will be like, no, don't
worry about that.
And I'm like, let's be real.
We all know that, yes, we doneed to come out of the gate
with some success.
I'm not saying it needs to be abestseller, but if we want to
keep, going yes, we have to takeadvantage of these
(52:19):
opportunities.
So I'm like, what are we doing?
Are we doing social media posts?
Are we doing newsletter?
Are we doing?
Oh, people can sign up for mynewsletter.
I did make a newsletter, but,yeah, school visits, especially
as a teacher, I'm like I want todo school visits, whatever is
going to move books, so that Ican keep doing this, because
(52:44):
move books so that I can keepdoing this, because I'm also
co-chair of the Drexel MFAprogram, the MFA alumni program.
J.D. Myall (52:52):
So if you're in Philadelphia, and you want to do
anything at Drexel, let me knowand I'll talk to the program
director and make that happen.
Veronica Bane (52:56):
I did see.
I think it was Eric Smith saidon one of the he's at Drexel oh
is he, oh he's a Drexel.
J.D. Myall (53:02):
He teaches at Drexel .
He's a professor there.
Veronica Bane (53:04):
Oh, that's so cool.
He said he was like go wherefor book events, go where you
could have a birthday party.
And I was like that is suchgood advice, because if I show
up to a state where I don't knowanyone, of course no one's
showing up, they don't know me.
But if I go, I didn't thinkabout that right and I was like,
(53:29):
what great advice.
Because, yes, if I, if I couldgo somewhere where I know at
least three people, thenhopefully they bring their
friends and I'm, you know, notone of the.
I mean, I'm sure it sounds likea rite of passage the book
event where you're the only onethere, but still I'm hoping that
you know so.
J.D. Myall (53:43):
Well, who knows, though, you might come out the
gate massive and then peopleshow up where you don't know
anyone and be like, oh, it'd belike a joint event thing, like
if we were ever able tocoordinate it, like I don't know
how everybody's schedule isgoing to be or when everybody
you know.
Yeah, but if we were ever ableto coordinate like a joint thing
(54:04):
, with me being like as aco-chair of the alumni um, I'm
in with the Drexel people, sothe Drexel people would show you
know what I mean.
Yeah, well, if we were able todo a joint event, you know what
I mean, oh, absolutely, I'm, I'mgame for anything.
Veronica Bane (54:17):
I'm just I'm so excited it's and I'm so excited
to talk about other people'sbooks.
That's why I like joint events,because it feels like just
people hyping each other uprather than like here, I am
talking about my book.
J.D. Myall (54:28):
Not only that, with us all being you like, we never
know who in our group will takeoff.
You know what I mean.
Yeah, like one of us, is thatbestseller through the roof?
Then you know, these littlevideos and affiliations and
associations might get us acouple more reads, exactly.
Veronica Bane (54:44):
And that's helping each other.
You know, and I just want morepeople to read YA and all these
great books that are coming out.
So, but to what you said, likeyou do not know what's going to
be the big book of 20.
And I'm hopefully there will bemultiple big books of 2025, but
you know, I love yours, though.
J.D. Myall (55:01):
That sounds super cool.
Veronica Bane (55:07):
I.
You know, um, I love yours,though that sounds, I love yours
too.
I'm like I.
I just it's weird to havepeople like now know about it.
I'm like, oh, you've just beenmine for so long and now you're
about to be other people's,which is exciting.
J.D. Myall (55:14):
But weird, so I haven't announced yet, so I'm
still waiting for my excitingbut weird oh my god the Drexel.
People know, they just knowthey can't say anything.
Veronica Bane (55:24):
Yeah, that's my, there were a few people and then
finally I did ask them.
I was like, hey, I'm going to,I was going to y'all west book
festival and, um, I was like I'mgoing to be around all these
authors, like I would reallylike to introduce myself and try
to do some networking, butobviously I'm not allowed to
talk about it and they're like,oh, oh no, you can talk to them
Like.
They're like please go network.
And so I got to talk to some ofthe authors from my imprint and
(55:47):
then from my publisher and theywere just so nice.
They were like oh my God, we'reso excited for you, we're going
to hype you up when yourannouncement.
And I'm so glad because if Ihad just I feel like done, just
like okay, I'm announced.
And like it had really been asecret, I think people wouldn't
have been able to jump in theway that they, the way that they
did.
So, yeah, so, I'm glad thatyou've told some that you have
(56:10):
and also I think it keeps yousane because I was going from
December.
I was like I've done things youpeople don't know.
I've done things like I've metdeadlines.
I will say, I think, veryrealistic view of publishing,
which I think is necessary.
Oh yeah, there are parts ofthis that are going to be hard,
and that's just the nature ofpublishing, and so that was
(56:31):
stuff you're not going to get onlike.
My author portal is not goingto be like.
By the way, publishing is notalways great about giving
support in this area Pay Like itwas seven months before I saw a
check.
J.D. Myall (56:44):
What other job do you work seven months before
you're paid?
I was just excited.
Veronica Bane (56:50):
I was so grateful because I was a teacher or I am
a teacher, and they got me myfirst notes like right away so
that I could start working overwinter break, and I was just
like that's so nice of them, I'mso glad.
J.D. Myall (57:06):
When you're new, you don't want to be the squeaky
wheel because you don't want tobe labeled difficult or them not
wanting to work with you.
I got hit by a car shortlyafter my book sold.
Oh geez, I was afraid to tellthem because I was like I don't
want them to think I'm unhealthyand unreliable.
So I was in the hospital forsix days like sending emails,
like all this.
Veronica Bane (57:25):
And, like the logical part of your brain,
knows God.
I would hope the people I'mworking with are going to
understand this Right.
J.D. Myall (57:31):
But I feel like that and this is, this is my dream
part.
It was just like yes, I I got.
Veronica Bane (57:39):
When I got the call from Michelle that the book
sold that same day my dad wentinto the hospital for his heart,
like randomly, and so I waslike I came home to my husband
and I had just been texting himabout the good stuff and so when
he saw me he was like yes, andthen I was like my dad's in the
(57:59):
hospital and he was like what?
And it was just like and samething with my agent was texting
me all these good things and Ididn't want to be the bummer, to
be like and he's fine now.
But it was just the calamity oftrying to understand that life
does happen and they willunderstand that you are a person
Right.
(58:20):
It just doesn't compute forwhatever reason.
J.D. Myall (58:23):
Yep, you're just scared of losing the dream
before the dream gets fulfilled.
Veronica Bane (58:28):
Well, and when I first got, it was also when all
that.
What was her name?
Kate Coran, the writer who leftall those negative reviews on
Goodreads, so that was like ohmy God, I heard about that.
J.D. Myall (58:41):
I didn't know her name.
Veronica Bane (58:41):
Yes, it was sweeping social media on the day
that I got I mean, nobody knew,but the day I got my deal and
literally I was watching someonewho had and obviously I would
never do anything like what shedid and I think it was
unfortunately deserved but I waswatching someone lose their
dream in real time, Like shemade horrible decisions to do
(59:02):
this and this and she losteverything.
And I was like, oh God, and Iknow that me being like I'm sick
, I need more days is not thesame as I went on a review spree
, but in my head I just thoughtoh, it can go away.
And that was terrifying.
J.D. Myall (59:20):
Very true, very true .
But when it's in stores, thatcan't go away, that's permanent.
That's done.
You achieved that.
You did that.
Celebrate it.
Yes.
Speaker 4 (59:32):
That wraps up today's Craft Chat Chronicles with JD
Moyle.
Thanks for joining us.
If you liked the episode,please comment, subscribe and
share.
If you liked the episode,please comment, subscribe and
share.
For show notes, writingworkshops and tips, head to
jdmacom.
That's jdmayorcom.
(59:53):
While you're there, join JD'smailing list for updates,
giveaways and more.
Thank you.
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