November 16, 2025 • 57 mins
Ever wondered what it takes to transform rejection letters into a publishing triumph? Join us on Craft Chat Chronicles as Shalini Abeysekara shares her inspiring journey from facing countless rejections to celebrating the success of her debut novel "This Monster of Mine." Shalini unveils the secrets behind balancing a demanding legal career with her passion for writing, and offers profound advice on crafting stories that grip readers right from the first page. Learn about the pivotal moments that turned her dreams into reality and the strategies she used to nail her query letter, landing her multiple offers from literary agents.
In this episode, we also delve into the importance of staying ahead of market trends. Shalini’s insights extend to the burgeoning popularity of genres like horror romances and the critical role of captivating your audience with powerful opening lines. Further, we explore the nuances of writing realistic and engaging dialogue, enriched by concise exchanges, effective dialogue tags, and nonverbal cues that bring conversations to life. We also tackle the challenges of building and sustaining an author platform on social media, providing practical tips to maintain a consistent and engaging presence despite the obstacles.
We wrap up with an emphasis on the invaluable support of the writing community and the importance of reading broadly to refine your craft. Shalini shares her experiences with turning setbacks into motivators and the necessity of persistence in the face of rejection, offering encouragement to never give up. The episode also covers strategies for creating engaging promotional content on platforms like Bookstagram and TikTok, along with recommendations for essential resources that can aid in both writing and marketing. Tune in for a treasure trove of insights that will equip you with the tools and inspiration needed to succeed on your writing journey.
https://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivener-affiliate.html?fpr=craftchat
🎙️ Craft Chat Chronicles with J.D. Myall
Candid conversations on writing, publishing, and creative life — featuring bestselling authors, MFA students, and writers at every stage of the journey.
About J.D. Myall
J.D. Myall is the co-chair of Drexel University’s MFA Alumni Association and a publishing and library professional. She is the creator and host of Craft Chat Chronicles, where she interviews authors, agents, and industry insiders about the art and business of writing.
Her work has appeared in Ms. Magazine, Writer’s Digest, and HuffPost. Her debut novel, Heart’s Gambit, releases with Wednesday Books/Macmillan in February 2026.
When she’s not conjuring magic, murder, and mayhem on the page, J.D. mentors emerging writers through workshops and alumni programs, fostering community among aspiring and published authors alike.
💜 Connect with J.D. Myall
📸 Instagram
🌐 Website & Media Kit
💌 Newsletter
🔗 Linktree
Watch episodes on YouTube as well.
💜 Level up your writing process with Scrivener ...
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to Craft Chat Chronicles, the go-to podcast
for tips on craftingbest-selling fiction.
Here at Craft Chat Chronicles,we bring you expert interviews,
insights and tips on writing,publishing and marketing.
Join the conversation andembark on a new chapter in your
(00:26):
writing journey.
For workshops, show notes andmore information, visit
jdmayalcom.
That's jdmayalcom.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
In season three, episode six of Craft Chat
Chronicles, we talk to ShaliniAbeshakara.
I'm praying that I didn'tbutcher her name, because
Shalini is such a sweet girl andsuch a wonderful writer.
Today she's going to share herquery letter with you and we're
going to discuss the thingsabout her query that works.
(00:59):
She'll talk about writing craftand her publishing journey and
share advice for aspiringauthors, debuts and everything
and everyone in between.
So let's get chatty.
Season three, episode six ofCraft Chat Chronicles.
So tell me a little bit aboutyour writing and publishing
(01:25):
journey.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Right, it was, I guess, a bit of a roundabout one
.
So I started writing at about17.
So that was many years ago nowand I attempted to query my
first ever manuscript.
That went about as well, as youcan expect.
I just got a solid round ofrejections very rightfully so
(01:50):
and it sort of made mecontemplate whether this was the
right choice for me.
And then, about 10 years later,I go and I do the same thing
again, and only this time itsucceeds with a manuscript that
I had been writing while workingas a lawyer at the same time.
And, yeah, I was very, verylucky to have started querying
(02:14):
in about January of 2023.
And my now agents, mollyJameson and Ginger Clark, picked
up, picked me up in about May.
So around five months laterthey showed interest in the
manuscript and I was agented.
And then we went on sub shortlyafterwards, about two months
(02:36):
afterwards, and I ended up beingprivileged enough to sign with,
uh, with with Hotterscape forthe release of my debut
Romanticie, this monster of mine, uh, and with Union Square and
Company in the States as well.
So Hotterscape for the UK andum Union Square and Company for
(02:59):
um, basically, uh, the US,canada, andada, and uh, north
america.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Really and here, so tell me about this monster of
mine oh, um.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
So you think I would be, uh like, more on the ball
with that, given how muchpromotional material I've been
putting out on instagram.
But it always gets a littlestrange talking about something
that was in my head for so long.
But it is a, it's a romanticismand um also a bit of a murder
mystery, where a um, a girl whowas um, pushed off a tower some
(03:41):
four years ago and whose casewas closed without justice,
returns uh, four years later asa prosecutor and um is assigned
to work with um, a judge whomshe suspects may or may not have
been her assailant and theprime suspect in a rash of
(04:02):
murders of prosecutors goingacross the capital.
And um, it's got.
It's got a bit of everything.
It is definitely a romantic onthe darker side, though, so a
decent amount of violence.
It is also ancient rome based,and that that place it's very
(04:22):
synonymous with violence.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
I absolutely love that.
Can you share the query thatlanded you your agent and give
me what you think worked aboutit?
What you think made that onemore successful than your last
round of queries?
Speaker 3 (04:38):
I think agent maturity had a lot to do with
that as well, but yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Should I share my screen with that help at all?
Sure, so I can see it Okay.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
All right.
Yeah, as you can see, there aremany drafts going on over there
, but this is the query thatended up getting me six offers,
I believe, by the end.
So that was a good feeling toknow I'd done something right.
(05:20):
So it goes, dear agent, I'mthrilled to bring you my 105 000
word, uh, young adult at thetime, uh, roman inspired fantasy
romance with crossover appeal.
This monster of mine, blendingcourtroom drama, the murder
mystery of down comes the nightby allison saft and the enemies
(05:41):
to lovers, romance of carriemenescalco's kingdom of the
wicked.
It celebrates a quiet butdangerous heroine of color with
ptsd and examines legalinjustice, the monsters behind
it and the monsters they create.
Um 18 year old, sarai knows thetaste of death.
Four years ago she was foundhorribly injured at the bottom
of a tower.
With only one memory of how shegot there she knows she was
(06:02):
pushed, investigators held thatshe jumped and her case was
closed without justice.
In the present, sarah hides heridentity and returns to the
scene of the crime.
As a predator prosecutor whocan magically detect lies Her
goal To secretly investigate hernear-death and ruin the man
responsible.
Vengeance seems at hand whenshe's selected to work for the
coalition of judges who rule theland, until she's assigned to
(06:24):
the youngest and most dangerousjudge, kadra, whose voice
matches her only memory of herassailant, ice-cold and
perennially sadistic.
Kadra channels both biases intoraising corruption.
His preferred methods Burningsand beheadings.
So the entire country isbewildered when he invites Syrah
to live with him while sheacclimates to the job.
Desperate for evidence againsthim, syrah agrees and begins a
(06:50):
double life, solving cases withKhadra by day and searching his
home at night.
Yet every case highlights thejudiciary's corruption in
comparison to Khadra's viciousjustice Worse.
A dangerous mutual attractionbrews between them as Sarah
questions if she has the rightmen.
But the judiciary is keepingsecrets.
Petitors fall from towers inthe dead of night, whispers a
band of a killer among thejudges and Sarai starts to
wonder whether Kadra is keepingher by his side to protect her
(07:12):
or prey on her.
As evidence mounts on bothsides of the scale and fear runs
rampant as to who the next deadpeditor will be, sarai must
distinguish monster from madmanand lie from lover, or choose
the one person.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
No one saw justice for herself and the rest is just
like my bio and housekeeping Ilove that there are so many
hooks in there that I think arewhat worked for you.
Um, like I love the legalthriller with a woman of color.
You don't see that a lot.
I love the that she's got thelove interest that could
(07:44):
potentially be the killer.
There's just so much in there.
I can see why you had so manyoffers.
How did that feel this timecompared to last time to have so
much interest?
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Honestly amazing.
I think the whole reason ittook so long to even try again
was that the first round wasvery disheartening.
I mean hopefully so it wasgenuinely it was.
It was not my best work, but,um, it really did encourage me
to put my best foot forward thistime there you go.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
When you got your author from your agent, how did
that go?
Did she send you an email first?
Did you guys just initially?
Did she call you?
How did it work out?
Speaker 3 (08:20):
uh, yeah, it molly sent me an email at first and,
um, we just sort of scheduled atime to chat.
I wasn't sure if this was goingto be an offer.
It was just, you know, like itwas an email, more to chat.
And, yeah, she offered duringthat chat and it sort of ended
(08:40):
up being a whirlwind right afterbecause of notifying all the
other agents whom I had queriedthat there was interest, and
then things just really movedvery quickly over the next two
weeks.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
How did you decide to pick her as opposed to the
other people who showed interest?
Speaker 3 (08:59):
So I was in an interesting situation where,
after Molly showed um, um, Ireached out to other agents, one
of whom was ginger, uh, ginger,clark and um, she reached back
to me, along with molly, sayingthey realized they both read the
same book and would beinterested in co-representing uh
(09:23):
me across, um, both sides ofthe Atlantic.
So Molly would sort of wouldfocus more on things that are UK
and Commonwealth based andGinger would focus on, you know,
the US, north America, that theAtlantic side of things, unless
I'm getting my oceans mixed up.
But yeah, um and um, I think I.
(09:43):
From that point it was prettyclear that I was going to go
with the two of them, not just,you know, the two heads being
better than one sort of thing.
But their vision for the bookwas so clear cut and they were
as enthusiastic about iteveryone was pretty enthusiastic
(10:04):
about it.
But something just clicked withMolly and Ginger.
It was just because it's not Ifeel like it's not so much um,
an agent, that it's not so muchthat I was looking for an agent
that would represent me and mycareer, but an agent that would
also understand how I worked.
(10:25):
I feel like that was really,really important to me.
I'm a pretty anxious person andso I wanted someone who I
wanted to work with, people whowould understand that I will
panic over the smallest things.
I won't like send emails ormass bother people, but someone
who would be like, okay, this isnormal, like someone who was
(10:45):
steadfast, reassuring and Mollyand Ginger are absolutely that
in space, in addition to beingincredible Asians.
So, yeah, it was a pretty easydecision at that point I ended
up being on sub, I think forabout three weeks, three to,
(11:12):
let's see, july 26 and oh yeah,so it ended up.
it's interesting because I guessthe entire process took three
weeks, but I suppose technicallyI was on sub for maybe a week.
Um, because we sent it off by j26th and we got our first offer
on August 2nd it was mybirthday.
So I remember that very clearlyand, and yeah, and by the time
(11:36):
the auction came and went it waslate August.
I think about August 28th isthe day that keeps coming to my
head.
So, yeah, I'd say about threeto four weeks in total for
everything to solidify.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
The auction process go.
I mine was preempt.
I didn't get to experience theauction fund.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
How did that go?
Yeah, it was.
It was, I believe it was arolling auction.
Um, there were two otherpublishers who were showing
interest and it was just for twoweeks.
Afterwards we would say, okay,like this is the deadline.
My agents would say, um, thisis the deadline for offers, and
I got to meet and chat with theeditors of each of the
publishing houses.
So that was really, reallyexciting.
And and then at the end of itit was similar to like going
with an agent.
(12:29):
It was.
It was similar, very similar tothat in the sense of having to
pick which editor I thoughtwould be great for book, but
also which one I would thought Iwould work with best, and, um,
yeah, I, I would say,auction-wise, it was just mainly
a process of meeting with theeditors, getting to really know
(12:50):
them and just sort of sittingand waiting as offers just came
in and hoping that you wouldvibe really well with the person
behind it, which I'm very luckyto have vibed very well with
Kayla and Molly, my editors.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
And how did the editor call it though?
Speaker 3 (13:15):
I really didn't know what to ask at the time.
I was very new to the wholething.
I never really thought I wouldget this far.
So I turned to Reddit and got awhole list of questions, of
things to ask, you know, likewhat the, what their vision for
the book was, um, what theythought, what they would change,
um, etc.
And it went just reallyfantastically well.
It's something that I willprobably never forget and I
(13:36):
think was the deciding factor umwith my deciding to work with
Kayla Singleton of Hotterscapewas when it came down to um,
hotterscape and PMJ Penguin,michael Joseph, um, they both
sent letters over to sort of sumup their position and like help
(13:57):
me make a decision, and theywere like the sweetest things.
I still have them.
Um.
But Kayla's was in Khajra'scolors.
So in this monster of mine,each judge sort of has their own
set of colors that they have ontheir robes, on their insignia,
on everything, and hers and herletter was in Cadre's colors,
which is black and gold, and Ijust remember reading that and
(14:19):
thinking this is it like shereally cares about this book and
like it was?
It was just an emotionalfeeling seeing how much she
cared about it and how much shewas prepared to um advocate for
it and bring it, bring out thevery best in it.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
So yeah, I love that and I love that you were
prepared for yours.
I interviewed people all thetime and I was so nervous I
froze like a deer in headlights.
Thank god, um, suzy townsend,the agent was on the call
because she took up the slackwhen I was just like but you
know you dream of it, you worktoward it and then, when you get
(14:56):
to the moment, it was just likeoh God, I froze for like three
minutes and she did the talking.
And then I was like hey, I'mback now.
Hopefully they didn't noticethey probably did, it was very
noticeable they're probably justused to it's.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
It's basically being starstruck.
I feel like they're probablyused to us just freezing up in
front of them going oh my gosh,I can't believe I'm here, pinch
me.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
The pinch me moment always comes during the call,
for some reason not afterwardsand then all the questions I had
in my head flew out during thefreezing.
So then I came back like justan anxious ball of that's good,
that's exciting.
How's your debut experiencebeen so far?
Speaker 3 (15:35):
oh fantastic, it's um , it's wild because there'll be
months and stretches where notmuch is happening.
You're sort of waiting on copyedits or an edit letter or past
pages, which is what I'm doingnow.
I'm just waiting on past pages.
And then there are months wheneverything is happening.
You know, it's like okay, um,back copy, okay, um, like
(15:58):
dedications, acknowledgement.
I'm like whoa, whoa, whoa,everything's happening right now
.
Cover draft.
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
So, yeah, have you seen cover draft so far?
Yeah, yeah, I'm very, I'm veryexcited.
Oh, yay, so you like them.
That's good.
Did you have?
How much input did you have inyour cover?
Did they like?
Speaker 3 (16:24):
have you do the proposal for it and stuff.
Um, I, I put up an interestlike a pinterest board which was
very it.
It was too much fun.
I just had way too much fungoing on there and just sort of
hitting every image I see and,yeah, like the result was very
close to what was going on in myvery wacky Pinterest board.
(16:45):
So in that sense, yeah, thatwas my input.
I feel like if I had to sitdown and write something for the
graphics team, it would just belike a slew of words.
I'm very glad I got to sendthat in visually.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
That's awesome.
Is there anything that you wishyou had have done differently
in your journey so far?
Speaker 3 (18:39):
That's a good question, I guess, journey wise,
I wish I hadn't waited so longto query again.
I guess failure hits hard whenyou're young and that's really
what it felt like to me Notsucceeding my first time around,
which, looking back, is sosilly.
You know, there are authors whohave tried over and over again
(18:59):
for years and I just took a 10month, 10 year break because
what my feelings were hurt whenI was 18.
If there was, yeah, anything Icould go back and tell myself
it's for heaven's sake, justkeep going.
Yeah, that's the number onething I would tell myself.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
What do you think you did right that helped you break
in and become a publishingoutlist?
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Ooh, I think it was really looking at what the
market was like, looking at what, looking explicitly at what
agents said that they wanted,and really taking the time to
understand the reading landscape.
You know, when you're, whenyou're 17 and 18, and, like I,
(19:46):
had a single brain cell bouncingaround my head you just think,
okay, yeah, I know, I knowbetter.
This is going to be the nextgreatest thing.
It's not.
And taking all those years tosit back and read and not just
read as a reader, but read as anauthor and see what other
authors are doing and just howincredible and talented they are
, and write from a place of joyand delighting in creation, but
(20:13):
also from a place of just um.
Being, like, more humble andunderstanding what readers like,
what readers enjoy, I think wasthe biggest thing for me,
because before I was justwriting honestly, whatever the
heck I wanted, without anyregard for is this even sellable
?
Whereas now, being moreconscious of the market and, um,
(20:36):
not, not, which doesn'tnecessarily mean writing to
market, but being more consciousof what trends are and, um,
focusing on what I like withinwhat is popular, has really
really helped me I love that.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
So in doing that, focusing on what you like and
what's popular what trend do youthink you want to play with
next?
Speaker 3 (21:02):
horror.
I would have never expectedmyself to say that, even like
two years back, but, um, I'mloving, and the sort of horror
romances, horror sci-fi romancesthat we're getting these days,
it's fascinating.
(21:22):
I absolutely love it.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
How do you hook readers on the very first page
of a novel?
Speaker 3 (21:28):
I always try to start off with the first line that
makes people want to keepreading.
Tiktok and Instagram havedestroyed my attention span
completely, and so I always tryto focus on what will make
someone stop scrolling.
So we'll make them stop andstare just for a second to read
the next line and the next andthe next.
(21:50):
And making people stop doesn'tnecessarily have to be a line
that, um, excites them.
It could be a line thatfrightens them, that shocks them
, that just makes them morecurious, um, anything to just
sort of make them say maybe Iwant to see what's coming next.
And so I usually go forsomething that's relatively
(22:11):
short, relatively punch punchy,and tries to stick in the
reader's head as much aspossible.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Yeah, can you give me an example of a first?
Speaker 3 (22:24):
move, mm-hmm.
So the first line of theprologue of this Monster of Mine
is my Word.
Document likes to load.
Um is right, is the girl wasstill alive when he returned
with a tablecloth that used todispose of her.
(22:45):
And um, so, and especiallygiven that it's a murder mystery
, my, my hope is that people go.
Okay, well then, and keep going, but, um, so that was for the
prologue, but for chapter one, Itried to keep, try to keep it
(23:06):
even shorter, and it's just mostdays, all sarah I could see was
blood and it's like that verygood, very good.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
And what do you think are the essential elements of a
good first page?
Speaker 3 (23:23):
This one's hard.
I feel like there's so many,there's so many great ways to
start a novel.
I mean, if you're starting inthe middle of action, I mean in
media res, is always a verypopular way to go, so that can
hook a reader immediately.
But I think what a first pageto me as a reader, what a good
first page looks like, issomething that, something that
(23:48):
evokes a sense of the world anda sense of the character.
That doesn't necessarily haveto provide a lot of detail on
both, but provides a fullyformed snapshot of the sort of
ride that we're in for, um, sortof like the opening scene of a
(24:11):
movie, where you see setting,you see character, you see, um,
you might even have a little bitof dialogue and you get enough
action for people to settle intheir seat and go okay, um, so
something cohesive, uh, likethat, I think, is important for
a first page, rather than youknow we need to know everything
(24:33):
about the character up front, oreverything about the world up
front, or we need to immediatelyjump into action.
To me, a snapshot of what we'refacing is very is keeping me
interested, at any rate.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
And how do you avoid the saggy middle?
Some people say soggy.
I like saggy I don't know, itworks.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
Either way, they're both laden under the weight of
something.
But, um, I am a very detailedplotter and and so I'm one of
those.
It's actually terrible, but I'mone of those writers who cannot
(25:18):
write a zero draft to savemyself.
I simply cannot.
You know, I'll, I'll, I'llwrite a chapter and then,
instead of writing next, I goback and over edit the chapter
for maybe like a good week, andeven then I'll write the next
chapter, and I'll still go backand over edit the chapter for
maybe like a good week, and eventhen I'll write the next
chapter and I'll still go backto that first chapter and I'll
still keep over editing thatover and over again, and I'll do
that every.
I'll do that for every singlechapter I write.
(25:39):
I mean, like right now I'm inthe middle of chapter eight, and
when I'm writing and guess whowas editing chapter one again
yesterday.
So, um, but I find that thatreally helps me avoid the middle
, because by the time I reachthe middle, I've gone back and
edited that first chapter somany times that, um, I've built
up to exactly what is coming and, um, I know exactly where it's
(26:03):
heading.
Um, I think, plotting wise,what helps me, um.
So even before I get to writingplotting wise, what helps me
avoid the saggy middle is, um, Iusually try to have some sort
of either reversal or just somereally big event occur.
I follow I tend to follow likethe save the cat beat sheet a
lot when it comes to writing.
(26:23):
That's um, and having somethinghuge happen at the midpoint is
some of my favorite things to doin writing, and it helps me
avoid the middle because I'mconsciously building up to
something at the midpoint andthen, past the midpoint, you're
dealing with the consequences,the fallout of what has happened
at that midpoint, and that, tome, helps prevent some of the
(26:44):
bloat and the loss of actionthat can occur.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Love that, love that, love that.
And I too constantly go backover my first.
But the first chapter is soimportant.
If you don't get them there,they won't read the whole book.
So any tips for compellingendings?
Speaker 3 (27:03):
Um, I think it really depends on the on the vibe that
you're going for with yourending.
Um, I've seen compellingendings that are extremely sad,
extremely bittersweet orthought-provoking.
I mean, my, my favorite go-tois is inception and the way that
ends, and you're just sort ofleft wondering, and any sort of
(27:28):
ending, in my view, that canleave people with strong
emotions is a compelling ending.
I know there's a lot ofqualitative reasoning there on,
you know, if it's rage bait, dorage bait novels count as good
endings?
But perhaps not good, butthey'd be compelling.
And so I think what would makea compelling ending is is
(27:54):
something that evokes such astrong sense of emotion in the
reader that long after closingyour book, they're they're still
thinking about it, they'reupset or they're excited or
they're brimming with ideas orhope or, um, they want the next
book immediately because it wasa cliffhanger.
So, yeah, I think that anythingthat keeps the reader coming
(28:18):
back for more is compelling lovethat, love that, love that.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
What do you wish?
You knew when you were juststarting out that you've learned
now.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
I think something that I wish I'd known throughout
the querying and going on suband even part of the publishing
process, is that your novel isgoing to change throughout the
process and not necessarily in a.
(28:58):
You know.
Oh, traditional publishingmakes you alter your novel sort
of way, but in a, it's reachingit's, it's becoming its highest
self, sort of way.
I've discovered just how littleI knew about editing a scene
and I've learned so much from myeditors on tighter dialogue,
(29:19):
tighter world building,storytelling.
I think there's almost atendency of, especially for me
when I was on on sub, when I'dfinally gotten, when I finally
signed with Molly and Ginger,that, okay, this book is as good
as it's gonna get it's.
You know, this is it, this is,um, the book that got me an
(29:43):
agent.
And then, you see it, I ended uprewriting about, I'd say, 60%
of my book and it just likechapters got shuffled around
here and there and it is so muchbetter for it and I could have
never conceived of that on myown.
So I think if I were reallyreally attached to the idea of
(30:04):
what I wanted this book to be,maybe I would have sort of had
strong feelings about it.
But honestly, it's so perfectnow that when I look back at the
old drafts, I'm just kind oflike, did this girl just not see
how much better things could bethat?
Yeah, I think you hear so much,especially on Twitter, on
(30:26):
social media platforms, on howmuch your book is going to
change during the publishingprocess and how social media
platforms on how much your bookis going to change during the
publishing process and howdiscomforting and awkward that
can be.
But I think what I wish I'dknown was that it's not as scary
as it's made out to be.
It's it, it's.
It can be such a helpful, suchan amazing process that brings
out the very, very best in yourbook.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
So I was really anxious for nothing and how many
revisions did you do with youreditor?
Speaker 3 (30:54):
um, I'd say about three.
It was almost like a two and ahalf sort of situation where we
just had like one last littletweak of the a few little tweaks
at the end.
So about three, yeah, okay,that's good.
(31:23):
What makes a good villain orantagonist very compelling?
Because you can, you can seewhere they were so close to the
light, so to speak, before theyjust veered off and and sort of
went mental.
Um, and I think, especiallynowadays in tv, there's um and
(31:47):
and reflected in books as well.
There's so much more nuance inwhat makes a hero and what makes
a villain, and that provides avery compelling playground for
writers to play in in terms ofwhat morality looks like as
(32:09):
displayed in in in ourcharacters, and so I'm trying
not to give away anything aboutmy book right now.
Oh, in terms of spoilers, uh,because a compelling villain is
is one who you also cannot help,but whom you're torn between
(32:43):
detesting and empathizing withat the same time, and that can
be in a variety you you know, ina variety of senses.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Yeah, I love that.
Do you have any tips on worldbuilding?
Speaker 3 (33:00):
Ooh, my favorite tip, Um, my favorite tip for for
world building is um is um.
Well, first one is sprinkle itin.
I I suffered from the tendencyof explain everything up front
as much as possible so thatgoing through the rest of the
novel the reader will not beconfused.
No, the reader is confused.
(33:21):
You've dumped a whole brick onthem and they're not going to
remember it for the next fewchapters.
And so I'm a huge, hugeproponent nowadays of just
sprinkle in things the readerneeds to know, as they need to
know them, and keep reinforcingyour world building in
subsequent chapters.
That's something that I'vereally come to understand that
(33:42):
just because you say X is Y inone chapter does not mean that
the reader who has a life isgoing to put down the book, is
going to go do some chores youknow and then come back to it
maybe a day later.
They're not going to rememberwhat that world building point
in the previous chapter is.
So reinforce as much aspossible.
And so that would be for, Iguess, writing world building.
(34:04):
But for the actual act of worldbuilding, my favorite tip ever
is play a video game.
Always, it's always gonna be myfavorite tip, because these
worlds in video games,especially single player games,
they're constructed from theground up Everything, from the
(34:25):
landscape, the buildings, thevegetation, the economics, the
currency, the goods, and you cantrade the weapons.
Everything is constructed fromthe ground up in a lot of these
cases and it's just a treasuretrove of.
(34:50):
It's like a textbook on how toworld build.
You know, you see how people,uh, how the um gaming developers
, game developers have createdentire worlds out of very um,
altered modern landscapes andand it's fascinating to see just
(35:12):
how much you know you canstretch a single object into
various different shapes andsizes.
Like I have so many examples inmy head, so many video games in
my head, but weapons are aclassic one for me, and when you
see how they do it especiallybecause video games tend to rely
so much on lore and you lookdeep into the, the economics,
(35:36):
the uh, politics of how videogames construct things from the
ground up, it becomes so mucheasier to envision your world
and to ask yourself the samequestions that these developers
were asking themselves when theywere building these worlds, and
I feel like the world ends up alot richer, the world of your
book ends up a lot richer fordoing that.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Love that, love that.
Any tips on dialogue?
You said you learned a lotabout dialogue in this process.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
I did.
Yes, specifically, dialoguetags the bane of my existence,
but uh, so I'm, I watch a lot oftv and so I tend to try to make
my dialogue as realistic.
As you know, as realistic aspossible.
(36:22):
I'd always try to imaginesomeone saying it, and if it
just sounds hokey then I don'tgo for it.
But I think, um, conversationsthat could can sort of play back
and forth on screen do notreally translate well on the
page when readers are reallytired of people talking about
the same thing for a whole page.
And so, um, knowing how toconvey as much information as
(36:47):
the reader needs in order forthe scene to progress, and as
much information as the readerneeds in order for the scene to
progress, and as muchinformation as the characters
need in order for the scene toprogress, while keeping things
as tight as possible, isabsolutely a skill that I, that
I learned from my editors tokeep things short, keep things
snappy while building enough in,and using dialogue tags as a
(37:10):
way of building in moreinformation, um, I found was
just crucial to elevating myabilities, uh, my writing
abilities, for sure.
Um, moving from things, likeyou know, she shrieked, she
screamed to to activelyinteracting with the environment
(37:32):
, having the characters performmotions as they're speaking, and
even having those nonverbalactions be a part of the
conversation and the interplaybetween the characters, and
that's, yeah, absolutelysomething I learned from amazing
editors love that, love that.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
What steps have you taken so far to build your
author platform?
Speaker 3 (37:57):
oh boy um it never feels like it's enough, really.
But, um, I post reels oninstagram and on TikTok and even
on YouTube every every day.
Um, it is good at those reelstoo.
(38:20):
They're cute, I wish.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
I was that creative with reels.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
Oh, my goodness, thank you so much.
I I've been learning from, likea lot of other other writers on
Instagram, because I have noidea what I'm doing half the
time and you know it's hardbecause you think you've made
something halfway decent andthen you look at the reach on it
and you go, oh well, right, umI, uh.
(38:44):
Yes, posting one reel a day oralternating with um photo posts,
especially camera posts, iswhat I've been trying to do,
like everything from you know,convincing you to read my book
in five seconds to um mostrecent one I did was my book as
muffins.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
So yeah, I love that.
How did you think of that where?
Do you come up with the ideas.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
Those are clever oh, um, honestly, I just started
with a question that Rachelfound on Instagram another
fellow debut 2025 author, alsoCanadian.
She just asked me what wouldyour main character's favorite
cookies be?
And that just sort ofsnowballed in my head to my
(39:27):
characters as muffins and wentahead from there.
Yeah, I've done my book aslipsticks, I've done, I am, I am
going, I'm gonna have to startmoving on to ikea furniture at
this point, but, um, it's veryhard.
It's, it's significantly harderthan I thought.
(39:47):
Um, building a brand acrossplatforms, but consistency and
even content quality is notnecessarily a guarantee of
followers or even ads onGoodreads, and so that's been
something that I'm still tryingto wrap my head around.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Do you have any tips for making videos and
promotional content for socialmedia?
Speaker 3 (40:09):
for authors Ooh, yeah , I would say if spend a lot of
time on Bookstagram, becauseit's good to see what other
people are doing, and then sortof taking that and seeing what
you can do with it and whatideas you can bring to the table
, it is really fun to run withthe ideas that you have and sort
(40:32):
of go wild and have fun and geta bit hokey with it.
But I also discovered you canget as hokey as you want but if
it isn't what people are used toseeing, they don't care.
So try to see what the mold islike and then get a bit hokey
within the mold and, um, a lotof it is less subtle than I
(40:57):
thought.
So when I first started makingthese videos I was.
I was thinking, okay, I can'tbe blatant and in your face
about it.
Maybe I just do like littleskits, maybe I just do um little
uh videos where I just talkabout the, the plot of my book
or the, um, what the male maincharacter is like.
(41:17):
And I've discovered since um,over the I think it's been about
over four months that I've beendoing this every day um, that
you actually you do have to geta bit blatant with the, with the
advertising be like convincingyou to read my book in 10
seconds.
Just get it out, get it in yourface.
If you try to be very overlysubtle in your advertising,
(41:38):
people have no idea what youwant from them.
Do you want to like?
Do you want to comment?
What do you want?
And, um, I feel like the second.
I just got a lot more.
This is my book, I'm I'mpromoting it.
Please add it on goodreads orpre-order if you'd like.
Was when I really actuallystarted to see my engagement go
up a bit more, because peopleare like okay, I know what you
(41:59):
want from me, I understand this,I love that what websites,
classes, tools or organizationshave helped you reach your
publishing and writing andpromotional goals?
For sure, I use Save the Cat alot lot.
Save the cat writes a novel umthat structure, especially with
(42:20):
the examples that I'm I reallydon't want to mess up the
author's name I feel like it'sjessica and just googling it
right now because I do not wantto mess up the most seminal book
that helped me, right.
Yeah, jessica brody's um savethe cat writes a novel, like all
(42:40):
the examples she provides of umcharacter art and uh plot arc.
She uses, you know, the hungergames a few times as well, and
really working back anddeconstructing those novels
deconstructing um other novelsI've read and tv shows that I've
read and seeing how they playwith that structure has been
absolutely, absolutely similar.
I I would not have been able towrite without it and um uh.
(43:03):
Another book that I sort ofconsider my my little uh bible
over when I was writing my debutwas um emily theeds and this
vicious grace.
I think it was released in 2021.
Uh, it was a.
It's a young adult fantasynovel and I I constantly
(43:26):
referred to that book.
You know what she was doingwith scene structure, with
dialogue, with exposition, withum pacing.
I yeah, that that book was mybible when I was writing this,
uh, this master of mine,absolutely, um, what else I am?
I don't know if they're stilloffering it, but, um, this is
(43:46):
why I wrote this book while Iwas working as a lawyer and, um,
one of the banks over here inCanada, the Royal Bank of Canada
they were offering like about a$1,500 bursary I think it was a
grant to people who werelooking to switch their careers
and sort of invest in materialthat would allow them to make
(44:08):
that switch, and so I was verylucky to be a recipient of that
and thank you.
Yeah, I put it really.
I put it all towards apublisher's marketplace, uh,
subscription and um querytracker and, um, what else did I
put it towards?
Um, oh yes, um masterclass, umsubscription because, um, a lot
(44:32):
of really amazing authors hadvideos with tips on how to write
better and I would justconstantly go back and forth
over over those videos and, yeah, that was that was about it
what programs do you use to makeyour videos and your marketing
stuff?
(44:53):
So I primarily I film directlyon TikTok or to help you boost
your engagement which is why Ido it and so film directly on
there.
They also.
There's also this app calledCapCut, which is owned by the
same company that owns TikTok,and so sometimes I'll piece
together clips in there.
(45:13):
If I film, if I ever film,outside of TikTok, then you use
CapCut to edit or I'll filmwithin TikTok, do all my editing
and everything within there,and then when I post, I have it
set to save that video to myphone without the logo
automatically and then I justupload that same video on
Instagram.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
Cool, cool, cool.
I didn't even know you could dothat in TikTok.
You can tell I don't use TikTok.
I think I have one, but I don'tthink I ever posted anything on
it.
I think I made one, though, butyou know.
Speaker 3 (45:45):
It's rough.
I only started.
I got TikTok and started usingit in May of this year and um,
it's addictive.
Yeah, I've learned a lot aboutthe world from TikTok I.
I can see why I didn't get itearlier, but at the same time,
I'm so glad I have it now now umwhat's up next for you um, a
(46:10):
lot of writing, I think, becauseI've been working on a prequel
to my debut, not one that's, youknow, contracted for or
anything, but there's a littlestory that I mentioned in
Chapter 17 of my debut, and itwas a story that I was writing
before I was writing my debut,and before that my debut
(46:33):
strolled into my head fullyformed, and I thought it'd be a
good idea to write that.
Now, that's actually whatyou've been, the first chapter
of, what you read, yeah, and soEverybody's in for a treat.
I'm glad, I'm so glad you'relike, yeah, I'm like focused on
wrapping that up and thenfinishing the book two to my
(46:54):
debut, which I'm contracted for,and then after that, yeah, I
just have a whole host of ideasand we'll see where it goes.
I'm very lucky to be able to dothis full time and so just
sitting down and getting all theideas out you never know, I
think, how long a career in thearts can last and my, my hope is
(47:16):
to get you know as many of myvery, very spooky ideas out in
the world for as long as I canokay, what does a typical day
look like for you?
oh, uh, like, I'll wake up andI'll do all my real posting
while still in bed and, you know, interact with other people's
(47:39):
content, just just see whatother people are up to, and just
like, build community, I guessfor about two hours, because I
really can't stop.
And then, um, you know, thenthe usual stuff chores, uh,
meals then I just sit down forwriting and, uh, try to get as
much done as possible.
(47:59):
I'll usually average between,like there'll be days when I
write for, you know, sometimeseight or nine hours straight,
and then there'll be days when Isit down to write and I'll get
maybe 30 minutes in and I'lljust goof off the rest of the
time.
So they balance out prettyevenly.
But I'd say the common threadthroughout all my days is
(48:23):
looking for ways to learn.
Even if I watch a TV show, I'mlike what can I take away from
this?
If it was bad, why was it bad?
What did not connect?
Know if it was bad, why was itbad?
What did not connect?
And if it was excellent, okay,what?
What are they doing that I canthen use when writing and um.
So I think developing a senseof um, where trends are headed
(48:49):
um, is a big part of my day, aswell as, in addition to writing
and filming, filming videos,yeah love, that love that
because I saw your announcement.
I think was it two weeks ago.
Time is a blur was it two weeksago.
I think it was a week or twoweeks ago.
I still have a part-time job.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
By the way, um, don't tell them I I know you won't,
but I'm not always a goodemployee.
I work at a library and whenwe're seated at the desk, I'm
writing.
I'm writing my stuff at work.
Speaker 3 (49:23):
Well, it is a place of books.
Speaker 2 (49:25):
It makes perfect sense, exactly.
And then when a customer comesup to me, I keep my good
customer service, but in my headI'm like wow, like I was in the
middle of a great scene.
Why are you?
But outwards, I'm like I'll bewith you as soon as I can.
How could I help you, dear?
What do you need?
Speaker 3 (49:41):
well, soon, you know, your book will be gracing the
shelves of that library.
So it it does pay off, that'sincredible.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
Yeah, it'd be exciting and and they're excited
about it too like, like my bossemailed everybody the book
announcement and stuff like that.
I think she secretly knows thatI sneak and write, but I think
she's excited about it, so shegives that to me because you
can't do it all the time.
When you're at the front desk,for example, we're busy, but
like at the little adult andchildren section, where it's a
little slower, I sneak and write.
(50:08):
I actually also snuck in lineedit well, not line edit, but
left a few comments in yourchapter there, too, I was at
work.
I was like, oh, this is good.
Okay, so what advice do youhave for aspiring authors?
Or, actually, let's start withadvice for debuts, and then
(50:30):
we'll go to smarter authors.
Speaker 3 (50:33):
Advice for debuts.
It feels wild to be giving agiven that I feel like I'm
floundering a lot of the time,but my biggest advice is, I
guess, going and getting to knowother authors Genuinely, like
make friends, like publishing issuch a lonely endeavor,
(50:57):
endeavor you know you're writingon your own, you're editing on
your own, you have you know youhave your agents and you have
your editor.
But unless you know you're luckyenough to see them frequently
or live in the same city as themor something you, it's just you
, and you know your, your choiceof word processor, typing away.
And so it's so important toconnect with other people who
are in the same boat as you andwho will really get you, because
(51:20):
it is hard to explain to peoplewith more traditional jobs what
your day looks like and why youmight be panicking over a draft
cover or upset over the factthat a chapter is just not
coming out, even though you haveit in your head, and those are
parts of work that will not makesense to a lot of people.
(51:43):
And so building community, Ithink is is so necessary for
your own mental health andhaving support to lean on and
and to be able to help otherswho are going through exactly
what you are going through wouldbe my biggest yeah, my words
for debut authors all right andadvice for aspiring authors who
(52:06):
want to be in your debutingshoes um, um, I was speaking
with um, an upcoming debutauthor.
I think you can believe she is a2026 debut called julia
alexander.
Um, it's pretty incredible, andwe were discussing this and, um
, a lot of writers really dodream about this for for a time,
(52:31):
and it's a hard road.
I recently saw stats thatthey're saying it's only six per
thousand people who query, whoget agented, which is insane,
and so my biggest advice wouldbe read as widely as you can and
learn to read like a writer.
(52:52):
And it's going to be so hardbecause a pastime that you used
to take um, that you used to seeas a hobby and you used to see
as a method of relaxation, isnow more a method of study and
um, that can.
That can take away some of theum, turn off my brain and just
(53:13):
relax aspect from it, becauseyou'll see lines, you'll see
character arcs, you'll seespecific scenes that make you go
, oh my gosh, this is brilliant.
Oh yeah, this is how the storystructure is working over here,
and that can take you out of it,out of the world for a moment
and you don't get to fullydisconnect the way you want to
world for a moment and you don'tget to fully disconnect the way
(53:35):
you want to.
But, um, it's so necessary tolook at media analytically and
the little bits and pieces thatit's that they're made of, in
order for you to use those samebuilding blocks to build your
worlds.
And, um, I think, even for Ithink a lot of aspiring writers
can tend to not want that part,not to dislike that part of the
process and I mean rightfully soyou're, you're, you're, you're
(53:59):
losing a little bit of thathobby in that sense.
But, um, it's so, it's.
It's so necessary to getting towhere you want to be, because
it's once you have an idea andan and a relative good grasp of
structure, character, plotline,storyline, your work is going to
(54:22):
be so stunning.
And the thing about stunningwork is, even if one agent says
it's not for them, there isgoing to be an agent who looks
at it and says, oh yeah, no, Iwant that, I really need that,
(54:42):
and I had 118 rejections beforeI signed with my current two
agents.
And so it goes to show thateven work that ends up getting
picked up on sub later on can berejected.
Work that ends up gettingpicked up on sub later on can be
rejected.
And so I think my second pieceof advice to aspiring writers is
when you're querying and yousee those rejections come in and
they will, they will come in.
Um, I'm yet to meet an authorwho never got rejected once.
(55:04):
But um, keep going and don'tpull the plug just yet.
Um, five months of rejectionsis a lot.
It's nothing compared to whatsome other authors have been
through, with years and years ofrejections.
But all you need is just oneyes, and once you have that,
congrats, you're in right.
(55:25):
But if you pull the plug toosoon before you get to that yes,
you'll never know whether youcould have gotten it.
Speaker 2 (55:31):
So keep going, keep going and keep studying I love
that, but you know what's funnyabout once you know story
structure and stuff like that,you're miserable to watch tv and
movies with.
My kids hate watching showsbecause I know story structure.
And then I see the little dotsand I'm like, oh, I know where
they're going with this.
This person's gonna that, andthen they're like she ruined it
again.
Yeah, no, absolutely yeah, howyou would have written it
(55:57):
exactly that's so true, but myboyfriend says the same thing.
Speaker 3 (56:01):
I'll watch him and I'll just go.
Speaker 2 (56:02):
I know that's the villain and then he'll go that's
terrible, like don't tell methat, and so when they give you
like the warm moments ofreflection or more backstory of
the character than normal in ashow, you're like, oh, they're
about to kill them off.
They're trying to connect sothey can step through the dagger
in our hearts.
Speaker 3 (56:21):
Someone makes a promise I'll be there for sure.
I'm like he's dead.
Speaker 2 (56:27):
He's not going to be there at all.
Awesome, awesome, awesome, asalways.
You know, it was fabulous.
Have a great day.
Thank you for your time.
Speaker 3 (56:38):
Thanks so much.
I appreciate you making thetime as well.
Yeah, we'll definitely talksoon.
Speaker 4 (56:47):
That wraps up today's Craft Chat Chronicles with JD
Mayer.
J's Craft Chat Chronicles withJD Mayor.
Thanks for joining us.
If you liked the episode,please comment, subscribe and
share.
For show notes, writingworkshops and tips, head to
jdmayorcom.
That's jdmayorcom.
(57:08):
While you're there, join JD'smailing list.
Welcome to Craft Chat Chronicles, the go-to podcast
for tips on craftingbest-selling fiction.
Here at Craft Chat Chronicles,we bring you expert interviews,
insights and tips on writing,publishing and marketing.
Join the conversation andembark on a new chapter in your
(00:26):
writing journey.
For workshops, show notes andmore information, visit
jdmayalcom.
That's jdmayalcom.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
In season three, episode six of Craft Chat
Chronicles, we talk to ShaliniAbeshakara.
I'm praying that I didn'tbutcher her name, because
Shalini is such a sweet girl andsuch a wonderful writer.
Today she's going to share herquery letter with you and we're
going to discuss the thingsabout her query that works.
(00:59):
She'll talk about writing craftand her publishing journey and
share advice for aspiringauthors, debuts and everything
and everyone in between.
So let's get chatty.
Season three, episode six ofCraft Chat Chronicles.
So tell me a little bit aboutyour writing and publishing
(01:25):
journey.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Right, it was, I guess, a bit of a roundabout one
.
So I started writing at about17.
So that was many years ago nowand I attempted to query my
first ever manuscript.
That went about as well, as youcan expect.
I just got a solid round ofrejections very rightfully so
(01:50):
and it sort of made mecontemplate whether this was the
right choice for me.
And then, about 10 years later,I go and I do the same thing
again, and only this time itsucceeds with a manuscript that
I had been writing while workingas a lawyer at the same time.
And, yeah, I was very, verylucky to have started querying
(02:14):
in about January of 2023.
And my now agents, mollyJameson and Ginger Clark, picked
up, picked me up in about May.
So around five months laterthey showed interest in the
manuscript and I was agented.
And then we went on sub shortlyafterwards, about two months
(02:36):
afterwards, and I ended up beingprivileged enough to sign with,
uh, with with Hotterscape forthe release of my debut
Romanticie, this monster of mine, uh, and with Union Square and
Company in the States as well.
So Hotterscape for the UK andum Union Square and Company for
(02:59):
um, basically, uh, the US,canada, andada, and uh, north
america.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Really and here, so tell me about this monster of
mine oh, um.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
So you think I would be, uh like, more on the ball
with that, given how muchpromotional material I've been
putting out on instagram.
But it always gets a littlestrange talking about something
that was in my head for so long.
But it is a, it's a romanticismand um also a bit of a murder
mystery, where a um, a girl whowas um, pushed off a tower some
(03:41):
four years ago and whose casewas closed without justice,
returns uh, four years later asa prosecutor and um is assigned
to work with um, a judge whomshe suspects may or may not have
been her assailant and theprime suspect in a rash of
(04:02):
murders of prosecutors goingacross the capital.
And um, it's got.
It's got a bit of everything.
It is definitely a romantic onthe darker side, though, so a
decent amount of violence.
It is also ancient rome based,and that that place it's very
(04:22):
synonymous with violence.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
I absolutely love that.
Can you share the query thatlanded you your agent and give
me what you think worked aboutit?
What you think made that onemore successful than your last
round of queries?
Speaker 3 (04:38):
I think agent maturity had a lot to do with
that as well, but yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Should I share my screen with that help at all?
Sure, so I can see it Okay.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
All right.
Yeah, as you can see, there aremany drafts going on over there
, but this is the query thatended up getting me six offers,
I believe, by the end.
So that was a good feeling toknow I'd done something right.
(05:20):
So it goes, dear agent, I'mthrilled to bring you my 105 000
word, uh, young adult at thetime, uh, roman inspired fantasy
romance with crossover appeal.
This monster of mine, blendingcourtroom drama, the murder
mystery of down comes the nightby allison saft and the enemies
(05:41):
to lovers, romance of carriemenescalco's kingdom of the
wicked.
It celebrates a quiet butdangerous heroine of color with
ptsd and examines legalinjustice, the monsters behind
it and the monsters they create.
Um 18 year old, sarai knows thetaste of death.
Four years ago she was foundhorribly injured at the bottom
of a tower.
With only one memory of how shegot there she knows she was
(06:02):
pushed, investigators held thatshe jumped and her case was
closed without justice.
In the present, sarah hides heridentity and returns to the
scene of the crime.
As a predator prosecutor whocan magically detect lies Her
goal To secretly investigate hernear-death and ruin the man
responsible.
Vengeance seems at hand whenshe's selected to work for the
coalition of judges who rule theland, until she's assigned to
(06:24):
the youngest and most dangerousjudge, kadra, whose voice
matches her only memory of herassailant, ice-cold and
perennially sadistic.
Kadra channels both biases intoraising corruption.
His preferred methods Burningsand beheadings.
So the entire country isbewildered when he invites Syrah
to live with him while sheacclimates to the job.
Desperate for evidence againsthim, syrah agrees and begins a
(06:50):
double life, solving cases withKhadra by day and searching his
home at night.
Yet every case highlights thejudiciary's corruption in
comparison to Khadra's viciousjustice Worse.
A dangerous mutual attractionbrews between them as Sarah
questions if she has the rightmen.
But the judiciary is keepingsecrets.
Petitors fall from towers inthe dead of night, whispers a
band of a killer among thejudges and Sarai starts to
wonder whether Kadra is keepingher by his side to protect her
(07:12):
or prey on her.
As evidence mounts on bothsides of the scale and fear runs
rampant as to who the next deadpeditor will be, sarai must
distinguish monster from madmanand lie from lover, or choose
the one person.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
No one saw justice for herself and the rest is just
like my bio and housekeeping Ilove that there are so many
hooks in there that I think arewhat worked for you.
Um, like I love the legalthriller with a woman of color.
You don't see that a lot.
I love the that she's got thelove interest that could
(07:44):
potentially be the killer.
There's just so much in there.
I can see why you had so manyoffers.
How did that feel this timecompared to last time to have so
much interest?
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Honestly amazing.
I think the whole reason ittook so long to even try again
was that the first round wasvery disheartening.
I mean hopefully so it wasgenuinely it was.
It was not my best work, but,um, it really did encourage me
to put my best foot forward thistime there you go.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
When you got your author from your agent, how did
that go?
Did she send you an email first?
Did you guys just initially?
Did she call you?
How did it work out?
Speaker 3 (08:20):
uh, yeah, it molly sent me an email at first and,
um, we just sort of scheduled atime to chat.
I wasn't sure if this was goingto be an offer.
It was just, you know, like itwas an email, more to chat.
And, yeah, she offered duringthat chat and it sort of ended
(08:40):
up being a whirlwind right afterbecause of notifying all the
other agents whom I had queriedthat there was interest, and
then things just really movedvery quickly over the next two
weeks.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
How did you decide to pick her as opposed to the
other people who showed interest?
Speaker 3 (08:59):
So I was in an interesting situation where,
after Molly showed um, um, Ireached out to other agents, one
of whom was ginger, uh, ginger,clark and um, she reached back
to me, along with molly, sayingthey realized they both read the
same book and would beinterested in co-representing uh
(09:23):
me across, um, both sides ofthe Atlantic.
So Molly would sort of wouldfocus more on things that are UK
and Commonwealth based andGinger would focus on, you know,
the US, north America, that theAtlantic side of things, unless
I'm getting my oceans mixed up.
But yeah, um and um, I think I.
(09:43):
From that point it was prettyclear that I was going to go
with the two of them, not just,you know, the two heads being
better than one sort of thing.
But their vision for the bookwas so clear cut and they were
as enthusiastic about iteveryone was pretty enthusiastic
(10:04):
about it.
But something just clicked withMolly and Ginger.
It was just because it's not Ifeel like it's not so much um,
an agent, that it's not so muchthat I was looking for an agent
that would represent me and mycareer, but an agent that would
also understand how I worked.
(10:25):
I feel like that was really,really important to me.
I'm a pretty anxious person andso I wanted someone who I
wanted to work with, people whowould understand that I will
panic over the smallest things.
I won't like send emails ormass bother people, but someone
who would be like, okay, this isnormal, like someone who was
(10:45):
steadfast, reassuring and Mollyand Ginger are absolutely that
in space, in addition to beingincredible Asians.
So, yeah, it was a pretty easydecision at that point I ended
up being on sub, I think forabout three weeks, three to,
(11:12):
let's see, july 26 and oh yeah,so it ended up.
it's interesting because I guessthe entire process took three
weeks, but I suppose technicallyI was on sub for maybe a week.
Um, because we sent it off by j26th and we got our first offer
on August 2nd it was mybirthday.
So I remember that very clearlyand, and yeah, and by the time
(11:36):
the auction came and went it waslate August.
I think about August 28th isthe day that keeps coming to my
head.
So, yeah, I'd say about threeto four weeks in total for
everything to solidify.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
The auction process go.
I mine was preempt.
I didn't get to experience theauction fund.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
How did that go?
Yeah, it was.
It was, I believe it was arolling auction.
Um, there were two otherpublishers who were showing
interest and it was just for twoweeks.
Afterwards we would say, okay,like this is the deadline.
My agents would say, um, thisis the deadline for offers, and
I got to meet and chat with theeditors of each of the
publishing houses.
So that was really, reallyexciting.
And and then at the end of itit was similar to like going
with an agent.
(12:29):
It was.
It was similar, very similar tothat in the sense of having to
pick which editor I thoughtwould be great for book, but
also which one I would thought Iwould work with best, and, um,
yeah, I, I would say,auction-wise, it was just mainly
a process of meeting with theeditors, getting to really know
(12:50):
them and just sort of sittingand waiting as offers just came
in and hoping that you wouldvibe really well with the person
behind it, which I'm very luckyto have vibed very well with
Kayla and Molly, my editors.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
And how did the editor call it though?
Speaker 3 (13:15):
I really didn't know what to ask at the time.
I was very new to the wholething.
I never really thought I wouldget this far.
So I turned to Reddit and got awhole list of questions, of
things to ask, you know, likewhat the, what their vision for
the book was, um, what theythought, what they would change,
um, etc.
And it went just reallyfantastically well.
It's something that I willprobably never forget and I
(13:36):
think was the deciding factor umwith my deciding to work with
Kayla Singleton of Hotterscapewas when it came down to um,
hotterscape and PMJ Penguin,michael Joseph, um, they both
sent letters over to sort of sumup their position and like help
(13:57):
me make a decision, and theywere like the sweetest things.
I still have them.
Um.
But Kayla's was in Khajra'scolors.
So in this monster of mine,each judge sort of has their own
set of colors that they have ontheir robes, on their insignia,
on everything, and hers and herletter was in Cadre's colors,
which is black and gold, and Ijust remember reading that and
(14:19):
thinking this is it like shereally cares about this book and
like it was?
It was just an emotionalfeeling seeing how much she
cared about it and how much shewas prepared to um advocate for
it and bring it, bring out thevery best in it.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
So yeah, I love that and I love that you were
prepared for yours.
I interviewed people all thetime and I was so nervous I
froze like a deer in headlights.
Thank god, um, suzy townsend,the agent was on the call
because she took up the slackwhen I was just like but you
know you dream of it, you worktoward it and then, when you get
(14:56):
to the moment, it was just likeoh God, I froze for like three
minutes and she did the talking.
And then I was like hey, I'mback now.
Hopefully they didn't noticethey probably did, it was very
noticeable they're probably justused to it's.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
It's basically being starstruck.
I feel like they're probablyused to us just freezing up in
front of them going oh my gosh,I can't believe I'm here, pinch
me.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
The pinch me moment always comes during the call,
for some reason not afterwardsand then all the questions I had
in my head flew out during thefreezing.
So then I came back like justan anxious ball of that's good,
that's exciting.
How's your debut experiencebeen so far?
Speaker 3 (15:35):
oh fantastic, it's um , it's wild because there'll be
months and stretches where notmuch is happening.
You're sort of waiting on copyedits or an edit letter or past
pages, which is what I'm doingnow.
I'm just waiting on past pages.
And then there are months wheneverything is happening.
You know, it's like okay, um,back copy, okay, um, like
(15:58):
dedications, acknowledgement.
I'm like whoa, whoa, whoa,everything's happening right now
.
Cover draft.
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
So, yeah, have you seen cover draft so far?
Yeah, yeah, I'm very, I'm veryexcited.
Oh, yay, so you like them.
That's good.
Did you have?
How much input did you have inyour cover?
Did they like?
Speaker 3 (16:24):
have you do the proposal for it and stuff.
Um, I, I put up an interestlike a pinterest board which was
very it.
It was too much fun.
I just had way too much fungoing on there and just sort of
hitting every image I see and,yeah, like the result was very
close to what was going on in myvery wacky Pinterest board.
(16:45):
So in that sense, yeah, thatwas my input.
I feel like if I had to sitdown and write something for the
graphics team, it would just belike a slew of words.
I'm very glad I got to sendthat in visually.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
That's awesome.
Is there anything that you wishyou had have done differently
in your journey so far?
Speaker 3 (18:39):
That's a good question, I guess, journey wise,
I wish I hadn't waited so longto query again.
I guess failure hits hard whenyou're young and that's really
what it felt like to me Notsucceeding my first time around,
which, looking back, is sosilly.
You know, there are authors whohave tried over and over again
(18:59):
for years and I just took a 10month, 10 year break because
what my feelings were hurt whenI was 18.
If there was, yeah, anything Icould go back and tell myself
it's for heaven's sake, justkeep going.
Yeah, that's the number onething I would tell myself.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
What do you think you did right that helped you break
in and become a publishingoutlist?
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Ooh, I think it was really looking at what the
market was like, looking at what, looking explicitly at what
agents said that they wanted,and really taking the time to
understand the reading landscape.
You know, when you're, whenyou're 17 and 18, and, like I,
(19:46):
had a single brain cell bouncingaround my head you just think,
okay, yeah, I know, I knowbetter.
This is going to be the nextgreatest thing.
It's not.
And taking all those years tosit back and read and not just
read as a reader, but read as anauthor and see what other
authors are doing and just howincredible and talented they are
, and write from a place of joyand delighting in creation, but
(20:13):
also from a place of just um.
Being, like, more humble andunderstanding what readers like,
what readers enjoy, I think wasthe biggest thing for me,
because before I was justwriting honestly, whatever the
heck I wanted, without anyregard for is this even sellable
?
Whereas now, being moreconscious of the market and, um,
(20:36):
not, not, which doesn'tnecessarily mean writing to
market, but being more consciousof what trends are and, um,
focusing on what I like withinwhat is popular, has really
really helped me I love that.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
So in doing that, focusing on what you like and
what's popular what trend do youthink you want to play with
next?
Speaker 3 (21:02):
horror.
I would have never expectedmyself to say that, even like
two years back, but, um, I'mloving, and the sort of horror
romances, horror sci-fi romancesthat we're getting these days,
it's fascinating.
(21:22):
I absolutely love it.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
How do you hook readers on the very first page
of a novel?
Speaker 3 (21:28):
I always try to start off with the first line that
makes people want to keepreading.
Tiktok and Instagram havedestroyed my attention span
completely, and so I always tryto focus on what will make
someone stop scrolling.
So we'll make them stop andstare just for a second to read
the next line and the next andthe next.
(21:50):
And making people stop doesn'tnecessarily have to be a line
that, um, excites them.
It could be a line thatfrightens them, that shocks them
, that just makes them morecurious, um, anything to just
sort of make them say maybe Iwant to see what's coming next.
And so I usually go forsomething that's relatively
(22:11):
short, relatively punch punchy,and tries to stick in the
reader's head as much aspossible.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Yeah, can you give me an example of a first?
Speaker 3 (22:24):
move, mm-hmm.
So the first line of theprologue of this Monster of Mine
is my Word.
Document likes to load.
Um is right, is the girl wasstill alive when he returned
with a tablecloth that used todispose of her.
(22:45):
And um, so, and especiallygiven that it's a murder mystery
, my, my hope is that people go.
Okay, well then, and keep going, but, um, so that was for the
prologue, but for chapter one, Itried to keep, try to keep it
(23:06):
even shorter, and it's just mostdays, all sarah I could see was
blood and it's like that verygood, very good.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
And what do you think are the essential elements of a
good first page?
Speaker 3 (23:23):
This one's hard.
I feel like there's so many,there's so many great ways to
start a novel.
I mean, if you're starting inthe middle of action, I mean in
media res, is always a verypopular way to go, so that can
hook a reader immediately.
But I think what a first pageto me as a reader, what a good
first page looks like, issomething that, something that
(23:48):
evokes a sense of the world anda sense of the character.
That doesn't necessarily haveto provide a lot of detail on
both, but provides a fullyformed snapshot of the sort of
ride that we're in for, um, sortof like the opening scene of a
(24:11):
movie, where you see setting,you see character, you see, um,
you might even have a little bitof dialogue and you get enough
action for people to settle intheir seat and go okay, um, so
something cohesive, uh, likethat, I think, is important for
a first page, rather than youknow we need to know everything
(24:33):
about the character up front, oreverything about the world up
front, or we need to immediatelyjump into action.
To me, a snapshot of what we'refacing is very is keeping me
interested, at any rate.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
And how do you avoid the saggy middle?
Some people say soggy.
I like saggy I don't know, itworks.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
Either way, they're both laden under the weight of
something.
But, um, I am a very detailedplotter and and so I'm one of
those.
It's actually terrible, but I'mone of those writers who cannot
(25:18):
write a zero draft to savemyself.
I simply cannot.
You know, I'll, I'll, I'llwrite a chapter and then,
instead of writing next, I goback and over edit the chapter
for maybe like a good week, andeven then I'll write the next
chapter, and I'll still go backand over edit the chapter for
maybe like a good week, and eventhen I'll write the next
chapter and I'll still go backto that first chapter and I'll
still keep over editing thatover and over again, and I'll do
that every.
I'll do that for every singlechapter I write.
(25:39):
I mean, like right now I'm inthe middle of chapter eight, and
when I'm writing and guess whowas editing chapter one again
yesterday.
So, um, but I find that thatreally helps me avoid the middle
, because by the time I reachthe middle, I've gone back and
edited that first chapter somany times that, um, I've built
up to exactly what is coming and, um, I know exactly where it's
(26:03):
heading.
Um, I think, plotting wise,what helps me, um.
So even before I get to writingplotting wise, what helps me
avoid the saggy middle is, um, Iusually try to have some sort
of either reversal or just somereally big event occur.
I follow I tend to follow likethe save the cat beat sheet a
lot when it comes to writing.
(26:23):
That's um, and having somethinghuge happen at the midpoint is
some of my favorite things to doin writing, and it helps me
avoid the middle because I'mconsciously building up to
something at the midpoint andthen, past the midpoint, you're
dealing with the consequences,the fallout of what has happened
at that midpoint, and that, tome, helps prevent some of the
(26:44):
bloat and the loss of actionthat can occur.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Love that, love that, love that.
And I too constantly go backover my first.
But the first chapter is soimportant.
If you don't get them there,they won't read the whole book.
So any tips for compellingendings?
Speaker 3 (27:03):
Um, I think it really depends on the on the vibe that
you're going for with yourending.
Um, I've seen compellingendings that are extremely sad,
extremely bittersweet orthought-provoking.
I mean, my, my favorite go-tois is inception and the way that
ends, and you're just sort ofleft wondering, and any sort of
(27:28):
ending, in my view, that canleave people with strong
emotions is a compelling ending.
I know there's a lot ofqualitative reasoning there on,
you know, if it's rage bait, dorage bait novels count as good
endings?
But perhaps not good, butthey'd be compelling.
And so I think what would makea compelling ending is is
(27:54):
something that evokes such astrong sense of emotion in the
reader that long after closingyour book, they're they're still
thinking about it, they'reupset or they're excited or
they're brimming with ideas orhope or, um, they want the next
book immediately because it wasa cliffhanger.
So, yeah, I think that anythingthat keeps the reader coming
(28:18):
back for more is compelling lovethat, love that, love that.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
What do you wish?
You knew when you were juststarting out that you've learned
now.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
I think something that I wish I'd known throughout
the querying and going on suband even part of the publishing
process, is that your novel isgoing to change throughout the
process and not necessarily in a.
(28:58):
You know.
Oh, traditional publishingmakes you alter your novel sort
of way, but in a, it's reachingit's, it's becoming its highest
self, sort of way.
I've discovered just how littleI knew about editing a scene
and I've learned so much from myeditors on tighter dialogue,
(29:19):
tighter world building,storytelling.
I think there's almost atendency of, especially for me
when I was on on sub, when I'dfinally gotten, when I finally
signed with Molly and Ginger,that, okay, this book is as good
as it's gonna get it's.
You know, this is it, this is,um, the book that got me an
(29:43):
agent.
And then, you see it, I ended uprewriting about, I'd say, 60%
of my book and it just likechapters got shuffled around
here and there and it is so muchbetter for it and I could have
never conceived of that on myown.
So I think if I were reallyreally attached to the idea of
(30:04):
what I wanted this book to be,maybe I would have sort of had
strong feelings about it.
But honestly, it's so perfectnow that when I look back at the
old drafts, I'm just kind oflike, did this girl just not see
how much better things could bethat?
Yeah, I think you hear so much,especially on Twitter, on
(30:26):
social media platforms, on howmuch your book is going to
change during the publishingprocess and how social media
platforms on how much your bookis going to change during the
publishing process and howdiscomforting and awkward that
can be.
But I think what I wish I'dknown was that it's not as scary
as it's made out to be.
It's it, it's.
It can be such a helpful, suchan amazing process that brings
out the very, very best in yourbook.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
So I was really anxious for nothing and how many
revisions did you do with youreditor?
Speaker 3 (30:54):
um, I'd say about three.
It was almost like a two and ahalf sort of situation where we
just had like one last littletweak of the a few little tweaks
at the end.
So about three, yeah, okay,that's good.
(31:23):
What makes a good villain orantagonist very compelling?
Because you can, you can seewhere they were so close to the
light, so to speak, before theyjust veered off and and sort of
went mental.
Um, and I think, especiallynowadays in tv, there's um and
(31:47):
and reflected in books as well.
There's so much more nuance inwhat makes a hero and what makes
a villain, and that provides avery compelling playground for
writers to play in in terms ofwhat morality looks like as
(32:09):
displayed in in in ourcharacters, and so I'm trying
not to give away anything aboutmy book right now.
Oh, in terms of spoilers, uh,because a compelling villain is
is one who you also cannot help,but whom you're torn between
(32:43):
detesting and empathizing withat the same time, and that can
be in a variety you you know, ina variety of senses.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Yeah, I love that.
Do you have any tips on worldbuilding?
Speaker 3 (33:00):
Ooh, my favorite tip, Um, my favorite tip for for
world building is um is um.
Well, first one is sprinkle itin.
I I suffered from the tendencyof explain everything up front
as much as possible so thatgoing through the rest of the
novel the reader will not beconfused.
No, the reader is confused.
(33:21):
You've dumped a whole brick onthem and they're not going to
remember it for the next fewchapters.
And so I'm a huge, hugeproponent nowadays of just
sprinkle in things the readerneeds to know, as they need to
know them, and keep reinforcingyour world building in
subsequent chapters.
That's something that I'vereally come to understand that
(33:42):
just because you say X is Y inone chapter does not mean that
the reader who has a life isgoing to put down the book, is
going to go do some chores youknow and then come back to it
maybe a day later.
They're not going to rememberwhat that world building point
in the previous chapter is.
So reinforce as much aspossible.
And so that would be for, Iguess, writing world building.
(34:04):
But for the actual act of worldbuilding, my favorite tip ever
is play a video game.
Always, it's always gonna be myfavorite tip, because these
worlds in video games,especially single player games,
they're constructed from theground up Everything, from the
(34:25):
landscape, the buildings, thevegetation, the economics, the
currency, the goods, and you cantrade the weapons.
Everything is constructed fromthe ground up in a lot of these
cases and it's just a treasuretrove of.
(34:50):
It's like a textbook on how toworld build.
You know, you see how people,uh, how the um gaming developers
, game developers have createdentire worlds out of very um,
altered modern landscapes andand it's fascinating to see just
(35:12):
how much you know you canstretch a single object into
various different shapes andsizes.
Like I have so many examples inmy head, so many video games in
my head, but weapons are aclassic one for me, and when you
see how they do it especiallybecause video games tend to rely
so much on lore and you lookdeep into the, the economics,
(35:36):
the uh, politics of how videogames construct things from the
ground up, it becomes so mucheasier to envision your world
and to ask yourself the samequestions that these developers
were asking themselves when theywere building these worlds, and
I feel like the world ends up alot richer, the world of your
book ends up a lot richer fordoing that.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Love that, love that.
Any tips on dialogue?
You said you learned a lotabout dialogue in this process.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
I did.
Yes, specifically, dialoguetags the bane of my existence,
but uh, so I'm, I watch a lot oftv and so I tend to try to make
my dialogue as realistic.
As you know, as realistic aspossible.
(36:22):
I'd always try to imaginesomeone saying it, and if it
just sounds hokey then I don'tgo for it.
But I think, um, conversationsthat could can sort of play back
and forth on screen do notreally translate well on the
page when readers are reallytired of people talking about
the same thing for a whole page.
And so, um, knowing how toconvey as much information as
(36:47):
the reader needs in order forthe scene to progress, and as
much information as the readerneeds in order for the scene to
progress, and as muchinformation as the characters
need in order for the scene toprogress, while keeping things
as tight as possible, isabsolutely a skill that I, that
I learned from my editors tokeep things short, keep things
snappy while building enough in,and using dialogue tags as a
(37:10):
way of building in moreinformation, um, I found was
just crucial to elevating myabilities, uh, my writing
abilities, for sure.
Um, moving from things, likeyou know, she shrieked, she
screamed to to activelyinteracting with the environment
(37:32):
, having the characters performmotions as they're speaking, and
even having those nonverbalactions be a part of the
conversation and the interplaybetween the characters, and
that's, yeah, absolutelysomething I learned from amazing
editors love that, love that.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
What steps have you taken so far to build your
author platform?
Speaker 3 (37:57):
oh boy um it never feels like it's enough, really.
But, um, I post reels oninstagram and on TikTok and even
on YouTube every every day.
Um, it is good at those reelstoo.
(38:20):
They're cute, I wish.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
I was that creative with reels.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
Oh, my goodness, thank you so much.
I I've been learning from, likea lot of other other writers on
Instagram, because I have noidea what I'm doing half the
time and you know it's hardbecause you think you've made
something halfway decent andthen you look at the reach on it
and you go, oh well, right, umI, uh.
(38:44):
Yes, posting one reel a day oralternating with um photo posts,
especially camera posts, iswhat I've been trying to do,
like everything from you know,convincing you to read my book
in five seconds to um mostrecent one I did was my book as
muffins.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
So yeah, I love that.
How did you think of that where?
Do you come up with the ideas.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
Those are clever oh, um, honestly, I just started
with a question that Rachelfound on Instagram another
fellow debut 2025 author, alsoCanadian.
She just asked me what wouldyour main character's favorite
cookies be?
And that just sort ofsnowballed in my head to my
(39:27):
characters as muffins and wentahead from there.
Yeah, I've done my book aslipsticks, I've done, I am, I am
going, I'm gonna have to startmoving on to ikea furniture at
this point, but, um, it's veryhard.
It's, it's significantly harderthan I thought.
(39:47):
Um, building a brand acrossplatforms, but consistency and
even content quality is notnecessarily a guarantee of
followers or even ads onGoodreads, and so that's been
something that I'm still tryingto wrap my head around.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Do you have any tips for making videos and
promotional content for socialmedia?
Speaker 3 (40:09):
for authors Ooh, yeah , I would say if spend a lot of
time on Bookstagram, becauseit's good to see what other
people are doing, and then sortof taking that and seeing what
you can do with it and whatideas you can bring to the table
, it is really fun to run withthe ideas that you have and sort
(40:32):
of go wild and have fun and geta bit hokey with it.
But I also discovered you canget as hokey as you want but if
it isn't what people are used toseeing, they don't care.
So try to see what the mold islike and then get a bit hokey
within the mold and, um, a lotof it is less subtle than I
(40:57):
thought.
So when I first started makingthese videos I was.
I was thinking, okay, I can'tbe blatant and in your face
about it.
Maybe I just do like littleskits, maybe I just do um little
uh videos where I just talkabout the, the plot of my book
or the, um, what the male maincharacter is like.
(41:17):
And I've discovered since um,over the I think it's been about
over four months that I've beendoing this every day um, that
you actually you do have to geta bit blatant with the, with the
advertising be like convincingyou to read my book in 10
seconds.
Just get it out, get it in yourface.
If you try to be very overlysubtle in your advertising,
(41:38):
people have no idea what youwant from them.
Do you want to like?
Do you want to comment?
What do you want?
And, um, I feel like the second.
I just got a lot more.
This is my book, I'm I'mpromoting it.
Please add it on goodreads orpre-order if you'd like.
Was when I really actuallystarted to see my engagement go
up a bit more, because peopleare like okay, I know what you
(41:59):
want from me, I understand this,I love that what websites,
classes, tools or organizationshave helped you reach your
publishing and writing andpromotional goals?
For sure, I use Save the Cat alot lot.
Save the cat writes a novel umthat structure, especially with
(42:20):
the examples that I'm I reallydon't want to mess up the
author's name I feel like it'sjessica and just googling it
right now because I do not wantto mess up the most seminal book
that helped me, right.
Yeah, jessica brody's um savethe cat writes a novel, like all
(42:40):
the examples she provides of umcharacter art and uh plot arc.
She uses, you know, the hungergames a few times as well, and
really working back anddeconstructing those novels
deconstructing um other novelsI've read and tv shows that I've
read and seeing how they playwith that structure has been
absolutely, absolutely similar.
I I would not have been able towrite without it and um uh.
(43:03):
Another book that I sort ofconsider my my little uh bible
over when I was writing my debutwas um emily theeds and this
vicious grace.
I think it was released in 2021.
Uh, it was a.
It's a young adult fantasynovel and I I constantly
(43:26):
referred to that book.
You know what she was doingwith scene structure, with
dialogue, with exposition, withum pacing.
I yeah, that that book was mybible when I was writing this,
uh, this master of mine,absolutely, um, what else I am?
I don't know if they're stilloffering it, but, um, this is
(43:46):
why I wrote this book while Iwas working as a lawyer and, um,
one of the banks over here inCanada, the Royal Bank of Canada
they were offering like about a$1,500 bursary I think it was a
grant to people who werelooking to switch their careers
and sort of invest in materialthat would allow them to make
(44:08):
that switch, and so I was verylucky to be a recipient of that
and thank you.
Yeah, I put it really.
I put it all towards apublisher's marketplace, uh,
subscription and um querytracker and, um, what else did I
put it towards?
Um, oh yes, um masterclass, umsubscription because, um, a lot
(44:32):
of really amazing authors hadvideos with tips on how to write
better and I would justconstantly go back and forth
over over those videos and, yeah, that was that was about it
what programs do you use to makeyour videos and your marketing
stuff?
(44:53):
So I primarily I film directlyon TikTok or to help you boost
your engagement which is why Ido it and so film directly on
there.
They also.
There's also this app calledCapCut, which is owned by the
same company that owns TikTok,and so sometimes I'll piece
together clips in there.
(45:13):
If I film, if I ever film,outside of TikTok, then you use
CapCut to edit or I'll filmwithin TikTok, do all my editing
and everything within there,and then when I post, I have it
set to save that video to myphone without the logo
automatically and then I justupload that same video on
Instagram.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
Cool, cool, cool.
I didn't even know you could dothat in TikTok.
You can tell I don't use TikTok.
I think I have one, but I don'tthink I ever posted anything on
it.
I think I made one, though, butyou know.
Speaker 3 (45:45):
It's rough.
I only started.
I got TikTok and started usingit in May of this year and um,
it's addictive.
Yeah, I've learned a lot aboutthe world from TikTok I.
I can see why I didn't get itearlier, but at the same time,
I'm so glad I have it now now umwhat's up next for you um, a
(46:10):
lot of writing, I think, becauseI've been working on a prequel
to my debut, not one that's, youknow, contracted for or
anything, but there's a littlestory that I mentioned in
Chapter 17 of my debut, and itwas a story that I was writing
before I was writing my debut,and before that my debut
(46:33):
strolled into my head fullyformed, and I thought it'd be a
good idea to write that.
Now, that's actually whatyou've been, the first chapter
of, what you read, yeah, and soEverybody's in for a treat.
I'm glad, I'm so glad you'relike, yeah, I'm like focused on
wrapping that up and thenfinishing the book two to my
(46:54):
debut, which I'm contracted for,and then after that, yeah, I
just have a whole host of ideasand we'll see where it goes.
I'm very lucky to be able to dothis full time and so just
sitting down and getting all theideas out you never know, I
think, how long a career in thearts can last and my, my hope is
(47:16):
to get you know as many of myvery, very spooky ideas out in
the world for as long as I canokay, what does a typical day
look like for you?
oh, uh, like, I'll wake up andI'll do all my real posting
while still in bed and, you know, interact with other people's
(47:39):
content, just just see whatother people are up to, and just
like, build community, I guessfor about two hours, because I
really can't stop.
And then, um, you know, thenthe usual stuff chores, uh,
meals then I just sit down forwriting and, uh, try to get as
much done as possible.
(47:59):
I'll usually average between,like there'll be days when I
write for, you know, sometimeseight or nine hours straight,
and then there'll be days when Isit down to write and I'll get
maybe 30 minutes in and I'lljust goof off the rest of the
time.
So they balance out prettyevenly.
But I'd say the common threadthroughout all my days is
(48:23):
looking for ways to learn.
Even if I watch a TV show, I'mlike what can I take away from
this?
If it was bad, why was it bad?
What did not connect?
Know if it was bad, why was itbad?
What did not connect?
And if it was excellent, okay,what?
What are they doing that I canthen use when writing and um.
So I think developing a senseof um, where trends are headed
(48:49):
um, is a big part of my day, aswell as, in addition to writing
and filming, filming videos,yeah love, that love that
because I saw your announcement.
I think was it two weeks ago.
Time is a blur was it two weeksago.
I think it was a week or twoweeks ago.
I still have a part-time job.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
By the way, um, don't tell them I I know you won't,
but I'm not always a goodemployee.
I work at a library and whenwe're seated at the desk, I'm
writing.
I'm writing my stuff at work.
Speaker 3 (49:23):
Well, it is a place of books.
Speaker 2 (49:25):
It makes perfect sense, exactly.
And then when a customer comesup to me, I keep my good
customer service, but in my headI'm like wow, like I was in the
middle of a great scene.
Why are you?
But outwards, I'm like I'll bewith you as soon as I can.
How could I help you, dear?
What do you need?
Speaker 3 (49:41):
well, soon, you know, your book will be gracing the
shelves of that library.
So it it does pay off, that'sincredible.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
Yeah, it'd be exciting and and they're excited
about it too like, like my bossemailed everybody the book
announcement and stuff like that.
I think she secretly knows thatI sneak and write, but I think
she's excited about it, so shegives that to me because you
can't do it all the time.
When you're at the front desk,for example, we're busy, but
like at the little adult andchildren section, where it's a
little slower, I sneak and write.
(50:08):
I actually also snuck in lineedit well, not line edit, but
left a few comments in yourchapter there, too, I was at
work.
I was like, oh, this is good.
Okay, so what advice do youhave for aspiring authors?
Or, actually, let's start withadvice for debuts, and then
(50:30):
we'll go to smarter authors.
Speaker 3 (50:33):
Advice for debuts.
It feels wild to be giving agiven that I feel like I'm
floundering a lot of the time,but my biggest advice is, I
guess, going and getting to knowother authors Genuinely, like
make friends, like publishing issuch a lonely endeavor,
(50:57):
endeavor you know you're writingon your own, you're editing on
your own, you have you know youhave your agents and you have
your editor.
But unless you know you're luckyenough to see them frequently
or live in the same city as themor something you, it's just you
, and you know your, your choiceof word processor, typing away.
And so it's so important toconnect with other people who
are in the same boat as you andwho will really get you, because
(51:20):
it is hard to explain to peoplewith more traditional jobs what
your day looks like and why youmight be panicking over a draft
cover or upset over the factthat a chapter is just not
coming out, even though you haveit in your head, and those are
parts of work that will not makesense to a lot of people.
(51:43):
And so building community, Ithink is is so necessary for
your own mental health andhaving support to lean on and
and to be able to help otherswho are going through exactly
what you are going through wouldbe my biggest yeah, my words
for debut authors all right andadvice for aspiring authors who
(52:06):
want to be in your debutingshoes um, um, I was speaking
with um, an upcoming debutauthor.
I think you can believe she is a2026 debut called julia
alexander.
Um, it's pretty incredible, andwe were discussing this and, um
, a lot of writers really dodream about this for for a time,
(52:31):
and it's a hard road.
I recently saw stats thatthey're saying it's only six per
thousand people who query, whoget agented, which is insane,
and so my biggest advice wouldbe read as widely as you can and
learn to read like a writer.
(52:52):
And it's going to be so hardbecause a pastime that you used
to take um, that you used to seeas a hobby and you used to see
as a method of relaxation, isnow more a method of study and
um, that can.
That can take away some of theum, turn off my brain and just
(53:13):
relax aspect from it, becauseyou'll see lines, you'll see
character arcs, you'll seespecific scenes that make you go
, oh my gosh, this is brilliant.
Oh yeah, this is how the storystructure is working over here,
and that can take you out of it,out of the world for a moment
and you don't get to fullydisconnect the way you want to
world for a moment and you don'tget to fully disconnect the way
(53:35):
you want to.
But, um, it's so necessary tolook at media analytically and
the little bits and pieces thatit's that they're made of, in
order for you to use those samebuilding blocks to build your
worlds.
And, um, I think, even for Ithink a lot of aspiring writers
can tend to not want that part,not to dislike that part of the
process and I mean rightfully soyou're, you're, you're, you're
(53:59):
losing a little bit of thathobby in that sense.
But, um, it's so, it's.
It's so necessary to getting towhere you want to be, because
it's once you have an idea andan and a relative good grasp of
structure, character, plotline,storyline, your work is going to
(54:22):
be so stunning.
And the thing about stunningwork is, even if one agent says
it's not for them, there isgoing to be an agent who looks
at it and says, oh yeah, no, Iwant that, I really need that,
(54:42):
and I had 118 rejections beforeI signed with my current two
agents.
And so it goes to show thateven work that ends up getting
picked up on sub later on can berejected.
Work that ends up gettingpicked up on sub later on can be
rejected.
And so I think my second pieceof advice to aspiring writers is
when you're querying and yousee those rejections come in and
they will, they will come in.
Um, I'm yet to meet an authorwho never got rejected once.
(55:04):
But um, keep going and don'tpull the plug just yet.
Um, five months of rejectionsis a lot.
It's nothing compared to whatsome other authors have been
through, with years and years ofrejections.
But all you need is just oneyes, and once you have that,
congrats, you're in right.
(55:25):
But if you pull the plug toosoon before you get to that yes,
you'll never know whether youcould have gotten it.
Speaker 2 (55:31):
So keep going, keep going and keep studying I love
that, but you know what's funnyabout once you know story
structure and stuff like that,you're miserable to watch tv and
movies with.
My kids hate watching showsbecause I know story structure.
And then I see the little dotsand I'm like, oh, I know where
they're going with this.
This person's gonna that, andthen they're like she ruined it
again.
Yeah, no, absolutely yeah, howyou would have written it
(55:57):
exactly that's so true, but myboyfriend says the same thing.
Speaker 3 (56:01):
I'll watch him and I'll just go.
Speaker 2 (56:02):
I know that's the villain and then he'll go that's
terrible, like don't tell methat, and so when they give you
like the warm moments ofreflection or more backstory of
the character than normal in ashow, you're like, oh, they're
about to kill them off.
They're trying to connect sothey can step through the dagger
in our hearts.
Speaker 3 (56:21):
Someone makes a promise I'll be there for sure.
I'm like he's dead.
Speaker 2 (56:27):
He's not going to be there at all.
Awesome, awesome, awesome, asalways.
You know, it was fabulous.
Have a great day.
Thank you for your time.
Speaker 3 (56:38):
Thanks so much.
I appreciate you making thetime as well.
Yeah, we'll definitely talksoon.
Speaker 4 (56:47):
That wraps up today's Craft Chat Chronicles with JD
Mayer.
J's Craft Chat Chronicles withJD Mayor.
Thanks for joining us.
If you liked the episode,please comment, subscribe and
share.
For show notes, writingworkshops and tips, head to
jdmayorcom.
That's jdmayorcom.
(57:08):
While you're there, join JD'smailing list.
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
The Brothers Ortiz
The Brothers Ortiz is the story of two brothers–both successful, but in very different ways. Gabe Ortiz becomes a third-highest ranking officer in all of Texas while his younger brother Larry climbs the ranks in Puro Tango Blast, a notorious Texas Prison gang. Gabe doesn’t know all the details of his brother’s nefarious dealings, and he’s made a point not to ask, to protect their relationship. But when Larry is murdered during a home invasion in a rented beach house, Gabe has no choice but to look into what happened that night. To solve Larry’s murder, Gabe, and the whole Ortiz family, must ask each other tough questions.