August 22, 2024 • 48 mins
How does one navigate the complexities of survival amidst a global pandemic? This episode of Crafting Survival features Warren Burley, an Emmy-winning South African expat who shares his incredible journey from growing up during apartheid to thriving in the United States. Warren's candid recount of his past, his decision to leave South Africa for his son's future, and his gripping experience of contracting COVID-19 while filming a reality show in New York provide a poignant start. His passion for storytelling and his podcast, "South Africans Abroad," serve as a testament to the power of resilience and community.
Navigating medical decision-making under pressure becomes a matter of life and death as we discuss the often confusing and conflicting advice patients received during the height of the pandemic. Personal stories of resisting certain treatments, influenced by skepticism and misinformation, highlight the vital struggle for patient autonomy. We move through chapters detailing hospital mistreatment and neglect, where the exploitation of patients by some medical professionals underscores the importance of vigilance and advocacy in healthcare.
The episode also tackles the theme of surviving against medical odds, focusing on powerful narratives of individuals who fought to reclaim their lives against all expectations. From battling inadequate nutrition during prolonged hospital stays to the emotional and physical toll of being separated from loved ones, these stories are a testament to human resilience. By sharing these experiences, we emphasize the critical importance of self-advocacy, a positive mindset, and the sheer will to survive in the most challenging of times.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Crafting Survival, a podcast that is not
just about cancer.
It's about the challenges inlife.
It's about surviving,overcoming, developing plans,
speaking with survivors, peoplewho have dealt with cancer,
dealt with other challenges,experts in the field of medicine
, science, innovation anyone whohas dealt with life's
(00:20):
challenges.
This podcast for you.
Sit back and enjoy CraftingSurvival.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Today's podcast.
Warren Burley survived the 2020pandemic COVID in not such a
fashionable way, but you wentthrough the trenches and you had
to dig deep and get yourselfout.
That's where we're going todiscuss that journey today, so
(00:53):
go ahead and tell us a littlebit about yourself, warren.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Thanks for having me on.
South African born.
I came over to the US 10 yearsago.
I own a production company anda podcast for myself, emmy award
winning.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Got to throw that in there.
That's why we have you doingour podcast too.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Tell us about that, emmy.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Yeah, we won an Emmy recently in June, for a
commercial campaign we did forRancho Water.
We did a couple of commercialsfor them and yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Nice, so these were commercials aired on local TV.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Local TV and YouTube, things like that.
Yeah, social media.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Didn't you win an Emmy before?
This was the first Emmy.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Emmy nominated.
Oh, emmy nominated Before.
Yeah, this is my first Emmy.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Oh, awesome.
What were you nominated for?
Speaker 3 (01:37):
A different water district, Western Water, also
for a commercial campaign.
We did.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
So talk a little bit about your time in south africa
um, just growing up there, say.
Since this is a podcast titledum crafting survival, I think
it's probably relevant to youknow what you dealt with during
covid I was brought up throughapartheid, the apartheid days.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Apartheid was a was a bad you know time in everyone's
life and stuff.
And then obviously I was stillthere when it changed over in 94
, when Nelson Mandela wasreleased from jail and stuff and
things changed a lot.
The reason we left is, firstly,was a future for my son.
(02:19):
I wanted him to grow up in aplace where he had opportunity
White male in South Africa.
Even at the moment it'sdifficult and I didn't want him
growing up in that environment.
So that was one of the reasons.
The other reason is it becamequite dangerous.
I had a BMW at one stage and Ihad people at my working.
(02:42):
They're watching you.
You should get rid of your BMW.
You shouldn't be driving carslike that and things like that
opens your eyes to like whyshouldn't you be allowed to have
whatever you work for?
And I think it's got a lot todo with poverty in South.
Africa.
You know, people get desperateand things.
(03:03):
And I mean my mom has beenhijacked four times.
My brother has been hijacked.
They came into my businesstwice with AK-47s and took all
our wallets and stuff and I justfelt like that's not somewhere
where I want to be.
You know, luckily for me, I wasdoing a lot of American stuff,
so I managed to make my way intothe US.
(03:23):
Obviously, the US iseverybody's first choice, I mean
the land of opportunity, right,and that's yeah, that's why I'm
here.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Is that why you decided to start your podcast of
the expats?
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Yeah.
So my podcast mainly, you know,showcases South African expats
that have moved overseas and howthey got there, and you know
they've all got interestingstories.
You know it kind of grew fromthe COVID era.
You know, I lay in the hospitalbed and I was like I really
(03:54):
want to do a podcast and heareverybody's story, because I
love hearing people's stories,and especially South Africans
that have made it overseas ornot made it overseas.
You know, it's nice to find outif the grass is always greener
on the other side.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
And that's one of my end questions in my podcast is
is the grass greener on theother side?
Because everybody goes throughthe same struggles and whatever,
and there's always a reason why, like why did you come overseas
?
What was the you know?
What was your motivation?
How did you get there?
Would you go back?
Things like that.
And yeah, that's how thepodcast started, hence the words
(04:29):
South Africans Abroad.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Yeah, that's what I was going to ask you.
What's it called?
So it's called South AfricansAbroad.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
South Africans Abroad on Apple Podcast and Spotify.
I feel like the country isslowly healing and we're getting
better.
I mean, I look at the UFC onSaturday.
Drakus fought in the UFC andhow he's bringing the country
together and the South Africanrugby and things.
You look at some of the videosand it's black and white
together and they're allpartying and stuff like that,
(04:57):
which is great.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
It's interesting that it's sports.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Sports always brings people together.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah we were just talking about in other countries
, like here in the US, andpeople who are athletes.
Yes, we praise them, but theOlympians you know from other
countries get a lot like.
They get a lot of recognitionand, yes, many of ours get a lot
of recognition, but it's stillvery different and the way that
the monetary value yeah, and theway that the other countries
really honor their athletes andhow they come together, but but
(05:25):
anyway.
So I would love to just kind offast forward for time's sake,
because I think we could talkabout apartheid and surviving
all of that.
But like that's its own podcast.
So crafting survival in thehospital.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
So we'll fast forward to COVID and maybe tell us
about just when you firststarted getting sick, you know
and then the fact that you endedup in the hospital because not
everybody did who got yeah, well, um, I was actually in new york
, okay, filming a reality show,um called in the doghouse and um
(06:03):
, which is is quite ironicanyway, that's why I laughed.
Yeah, and the guy that wasfilming with us, he was actually
sick and I didn't know.
I mean, he was coughing in thecar when I picked him up and I
asked him if he was sick and no,I'm not sick, I'm fine,
whatever.
But it turned out he was thecarrier.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
So real quick timeline.
Are we talking like early 2020?
Speaker 3 (06:28):
This is 21.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Okay, so after we had had a year of social distancing
.
And masks, exactly Plexiglass.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
We had just opened up to some filming, obviously with
some mandates like masks anddistancing and things like that,
and we had to have certainthings on set.
We had to have a COVID personon set to make sure people were
doing the right thing.
I actually got my certificatefor COVID, like a COVID master
(06:57):
type thing and yeah, which isalso ironic- COVID master.
COVID master and I literallyfeel like I am the master and
yeah.
So I mean, we got on set and wefilmed for two days and I
started to feel a little sick.
Then one night I got the chillsand things and I took some
(07:18):
ibuprofen and stuff and I wasokay.
The next day I was fine.
I was back on set, neverthought to do a COVID test, just
had a headache.
I still felt fine.
I took some tablets and I was100%.
And we filmed the whole week andthen when I left to go to the
(07:38):
airport, I thought let me justdo a COVID test, because they
were giving out those free COVIDtests at the airport, you know,
and because I didn't feel right, I felt like something was
wrong.
I thought let me just gettested, just in case.
And I got tested and as Istepped foot on the plane I got
the text you're COVID positive.
I mean we're all wearing masksand stuff.
(08:00):
I thought, okay, I'll be fine,because I've had it for a week.
Then seven days already Ishould be fine.
And while I was on the airplaneI started to get the chills and
because of the pressure in theairplane was crushing my lungs
and I started to get pneumonia.
And as I was flying from NewYork, the further I got, the
(08:23):
worse I got and I was shakingand it was pretty bad and then
by the time I got back to theairport I had to drive back from
LA all the way to Corona.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
So real quick on the airplane.
Did you try and hide it?
I'm sure you had people sitnext to you, right?
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Yeah, I had people sit next to me but the air
hostess came and gave meblankets because I was freezing
and, yeah, I'm sure they couldsee I was sick.
I didn't say anything, or Ididn't try hard to do anything
because I didn't think it wasthat bad, you know.
(08:58):
But I started to get the sweatsand things.
We had masks on.
Obviously, on the airplane youhave to wear masks and things.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Those were only symptoms on the plane.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
There was many symptoms you didn't have to
visit the and things um.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Those were only symptoms on the plane you didn't
.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
There was my visit the toilet.
No, I didn't have to.
No, I wasn't coughing oranything like it, I didn't
sneeze or anything.
I just felt like I had thesweats.
I thought, okay, it's not thatbad, because I had it before, so
maybe it's just, you know, justa symptom no, that is a long
trek, like right matt.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Matt had a illness scare from california to new
york the opposite direction, andthe longer we were in the air
the worse he got yeah, it wasbad was the worst plane trip of
my life, like I thought I wasgonna eventually.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Before we landed I thought yeah, I thought I was
done yeah, mine too, except Idid have to visit the restroom
and had it coming out of bothends.
It wasn't COVID, it was just a24-hour flu, but given my
history, my mind immediatelywent to shit.
The cancer's back.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Yeah, yeah, I tell you, it's not a good feeling to
be on a plane, because you'restuck, Stuck yeah.
There's nothing you can do, youknow.
And also you start to panic alittle bit and my wife always
calms me down, like whenever Ipanic or anything happens, she's
there and she calms me down.
She has this way of calming medown and I couldn't phone her, I
(10:16):
couldn't do nothing.
So I was, you know.
I mean it turned into a longflight.
When I landed, I rushed to mycar or whatever, and I phoned
her from the car and I said I'mnot feeling so great, you know.
And she suggested which I don'tknow if it was a good thing or
bad thing that I maybe shouldstay in a hotel for the night in
(10:40):
case I brought her home.
But I wasn't well at all.
So you know I needed some help.
Eventually I went home and Istarted to feel a bit better.
She gave me some ibuprofen andstuff and then I started to
throw up later that eveningbecause my body was lacking
oxygen.
So I was trying to get oxygen.
(11:00):
So I started throwing up alittle bit and then she checked
my oxygen and my oxygen was inthe low 70s, which I've actually
had friends die on, like 75.
So I got a fright and I waslike, okay, maybe we should just
go to the hospital get someoxygen and I'll be fine.
We ended up going to thehospital emergency that night.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
You're a big guy Like you're hence Burley, but you're
a big guy Like you're, henceBurley but, you're a big guy.
So at that time you're likelike, how big are you?
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Well, that's yeah 300 pounds.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Yeah, and you're tall .
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Six foot.
You know yeah and yeah.
So we got to.
We got to the emergency room.
I said you go park the car,I'll go inside, just check in,
you know.
And I walked inside and I saidto the lady I think I've got
COVID Batting to breathe alittle bit.
She rushed me to the back andthat was the last time I saw my
(11:57):
wife in six weeks.
Oh wow.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
So they turned her away immediately.
They said to her she can't comeinside.
My oxygen was 60, 63, I thinkit was.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
At that point you know that wasn't obviously the
total lockdown period.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
No.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
And they still didn't let her in because a lot of the
like, academic centers andhospitals and this was the
weirdest thing to me is thatthey would let in the first,
like you're one person you knowand then, if you were going to
die, you could have two people.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
So you're now at this place and you're past the
lockdown and they still won'tlet her come in.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
They wouldn't let her come into the door at all.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
And this is like a community hospital or yeah, yeah
.
Interesting.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
In Corona, corona, yeah, I eventually found out.
They called it the deathhospital.
Yikes, yeah.
So yeah, they wouldn't let herin at all.
The doctor actually wentoutside and said to her he's not
going to make the night, gomake plans.
They wouldn't let her see me.
You go from here, okay.
(13:08):
Okay.
Yeah, she was very confused.
She was like but he just walkedinside and they're like yeah,
he's oxygen's really low, he'snot gonna make it.
There's no way he's making itand I'm inside weird yeah, and I
was inside like really confused.
I couldn't talk to her, I didn'thave my cell phone or anything.
She had my phone in the car.
Then they put me in this roomand these guys came in dressed
(13:31):
like Darth Vader and it was likepanic stations everywhere.
I just had people poking mewith needles and I had two
things of oxygen on me, likeboth at 100%.
And I was confused because Ifelt okay and I wasn't sure what
was going on.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
You felt relatively okay, Otherwise you wouldn't
have been there.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
Yeah Well, I felt, you know I walked in there, you
know it would be different ifthey rolled me in Right and the
guy was saying you're not goingto make the night, like that's.
When it started, straight fromthe get-go, it was like you're
not going to make it and I waslike what are you talking about?
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Yeah, that's so bizarre.
Did you feel like you were inlike the twilight zone?
Speaker 3 (14:10):
It was really bizarre .
Speaker 1 (14:14):
It honestly felt like I walked through the doors in
the twilight, like they weretrying to convince you, you're
not going to survive.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Yes, and we'll get to that, because it felt like the
whole time that's what they werefighting for, for me not to
make it.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
What do you think that?
Why would they do that?
What is your theory behind?
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Look, I'm no theorist or you know, I don't believe in
all that stuff.
But interesting enough, myneighbor he's into conspiracies
like big time and he said to mewhen COVID started, he told me
the whole thing about COVID.
He said don't go on therespirator, make sure you don't
get remdesivir, don't get thevaccination, and I just thought
this guy was crazy.
And he also gave me a list.
(14:56):
He says when you go to thehospital they're going to do
these five things to you, andwhen you're in the hospital and
it's playing out exactly likethat.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Exactly like he told you.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Your mind goes straight to conspiracies Like oh
my god, they're trying to killme, it's because you're South
African.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
It's because I'm South African.
There's a bounty on your head.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Yeah, it was the strangest thing as well.
I kept thinking of the end ofthe list.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
It was like they get paid from the, the crematorium
or whatever um well, it'smedicare benefits that they get
one to diagnose you covid, thentwo if you die from covid
correct.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Yeah, it was like diagnose remdesivir, put him on
the ventilator, he dies.
We get paid from, get paid fromthe mortuary or whatever.
And I just kept thinking ofthat list.
And as I was thinking of thelist, the list was playing out
and all I kept saying was I'mnot going on the ventilator, not
going on the ventilator, likeyou don't have a choice.
(15:56):
I said no, I do have a choice,and I actually got into an
argument with the people at thehospital.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
So that's a.
Can I have you pause?
Because I think that this is areally important point, that I
think that people don't think,when it comes to their
healthcare, that they have achoice.
So I think you just saidsomething really important.
No, I do have a choice, right,and so you were demanding.
You know what you felt was bestfor you, right?
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Well, you know, with this whole COVID thing, it was
very confusing from the word goWell you know, with this whole
COVID thing it was veryconfusing from the word go and
there was conflictinginformation coming from both
sides and I think it was such ashock when it first happened I
(16:41):
mean I'm sure for everybodyright that you weren't sure what
to believe and I think myinstincts kicked in the minute.
I was at the hospital andeverything was playing out like
I said and people were dying onthe ventilator.
I mean I had people in SouthAfrica that I knew very well and
very close to that were dying.
They were going on theventilator dead.
Going on the ventilator dead, Imean at least seven or eight
people that I know and they weresaying something to me.
(17:01):
And then also with this vaccine, it just happened so quickly I
was like no, I'd like to do someresearch first on this vaccine.
I mean, they were just forcingthe vaccine on people and I just
found it all a bit odd and mywife and I sat down and we're
like, okay, we're not going totake the vaccine, if this
happens, we're not going to goon the ventilator and we're
(17:22):
going to have to fight ithappens, we're not going to go
on the ventilator and we'regoing to have to fight it.
And and there were times whereI was second guessing myself in
the hospital because they tryand talk you into it like mr
burley, you're going to die ifyou do not do this now.
And there was a point where Iwas like, oh my god, like am I
doing the right thing?
Speaker 1 (17:38):
so it's like a they're creating a more sense of
urgency and fear correct basecare yeah, yeah yeah, and.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Yeah and it's.
Yeah, there was, as I say, butthe first week I don't remember
anything because from that roomI don't remember going into the
actual ICU.
All I remember is that I wastelling them no, I'm not going
on the ventilator, not going onthe ventilator, and they
actually had me sign a piece ofpaper and I said make sure I'm
on the ventilator.
And they actually had me sign apiece of paper and I said make
(18:06):
sure I don't go on theventilator, and they kept
injecting me with stuff.
And then I don't rememberanything for the first week.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
You don't know what they were injecting you with.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
No, I had no idea.
Luckily, my wife was in contactwith them every day and the
first thing she said was don'tgive him remdesivir.
And they were like we'vealready given him three doses
and give him remdesivir.
And they were like we'vealready given him three doses
and they're like why are yougiving him three doses?
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Because that's all we know.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
That's the protocol we've been given.
And she said stop, don't givehim any more.
So luckily, because they weregoing to give me six doses of
remdesivir, which we heard wasnot a good thing, because I mean
, at that point we were allguinea pigs, right the whole
covid thing, and we were justplaying out like things we heard
and again, not conspiracytheorists, but we were listening
(18:52):
to a conspiracy guy and whenthings start playing out, yeah
your instincts kick in, you know.
And he was also in contact withher saying make sure they don't
do this, make sure they don't dothis, um.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
So she was communicating with the hospital
every day so when you said no tothe ventilator, something
happened, because I think youand I were talking about the dnr
.
Do not resuscitate yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Well, at one stage they came to me and they put a
dnr band on my wrist and I waslike what's that for?
They said, well, we're notgoing to resuscitate you if
something happens.
And I I said, but why?
She said because you don't wantto go on the ventilator.
And I said going on theventilator and resuscitating me
is two different things.
If I have a heart attackbecause people are having heart
(19:36):
attacks in the hospital Stress,yeah, from the stress I said I
still want to be resuscitatedand she said, no, we're refusing
that.
This is your choice and you'regoing to have to live with it.
That's what I was told.
So I was monitoring my heartrate every second.
(19:56):
But, yeah, that was one of thethings that shocked me, the way
I was treated in the hospital.
Yeah, and they were trying tolead you with a carrot.
Yeah, yeah, they were trying toget lead you with a carrot.
Yeah, um, yeah, they weretrying to force me to go on the
ventilator.
Um, and I mean, I can tell youa story about the guy next to me
with a ventilator, because hehad the same thing.
He didn't want to go on theventilator.
I was in in hospital for twoweeks when he arrived and he was
(20:18):
still doing business on hisphone on the bed.
He was, he was okay, um,obviously on oxygen and stuff,
but he was doing business on hisphone and we were chatting.
Um, yeah, it was about two orthree weeks in and he was
talking about chess and stuff.
Um, also a foreign guy, um, Ican't remember his name, um, but
the one night he needed to goto the bathroom and because we
(20:41):
had been in the bed for so long,we couldn't walk, um, and we
kept calling the nurse andcalling the nurse.
He called for about an hour andthen I to go to the bathroom
and because we had been in thebed for so long, we couldn't
walk and we kept calling thenurse and calling the nurse.
He called for about an hour andthen I started to call and they
didn't come.
I mean, this is the ICU unit,he's supposed to be on call.
And eventually he said I've gotto go and I said, well, you
can't get out the bed becauseyou're going to fall.
And the next minute I justheard wah, he fell off the bed
(21:02):
and all the alarms went off andall the nurses came running and
they forced him on theventilator.
He was also saying, no, I'm notgoing on the ventilator.
And the guy I called Dr Deathwas standing over him saying you
nod your head, yes, otherwisewe're going to let you die.
And I was watching this wholething happen right in front of
(21:22):
me with eyes wide open, and hekept looking at me and smiling
and eventually the nurse noddedhis head and they put him on the
ventilator.
Now I don't know if the guyever made it, because I left
before you know, before he did,but that's a case of being
(21:43):
forced on the ventilator.
And that doctor actually came tome the next day and he was like
, hey, buddy, oh pal, like Ididn't know the doctor from my
borough soap.
And he said, hey, so you sawwhat happened last night.
And I was like, uh, no, becauseI was scared to say anything.
He said, yeah, yeah, I saw youwatching us, it's fine.
Um, I just need you ifsomething happens in court, if
(22:03):
you can stand up and just stand,you're on my side, right, buddy
?
And I was so scared, like, witheverything that was happening
in that hospital, I was like,yeah, sure, no problem.
Yeah, I'm on your side, man, noproblem.
And that guy also, from thatday on, tried to intimidate me
with things.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
What kind of doctor was he?
Speaker 3 (22:22):
He was the on-call doctor at night, but you don't
know what his specialty was, noidea.
And yeah, I called him Dr Death.
So every time I spoke to mywife I was like Dr Death's in
tonight and I never sleptBecause they would also give me
a sleeping tablet, because theywanted me to sleep and I
wouldn't sleep at night becauseI had things happening there.
(22:42):
And the one night he came to meand they gave me a sleeping
tablet and I was having theseweird dreams and stuff.
It was like something hectic andI started to sweat and then my
heart rate went up and he ran inthere with the EKG machine.
He's like, yeah, you haven'tgot a headache, I've got to sort
you out.
And I was like, no, I'm fine,I'm fine, I'm fine.
And he was like no, no, and hestrapped me up for things and I
(23:05):
said I promise you I'm fine.
And then 10 minutes later hegoes oh, okay, yeah,
everything's good.
And he walked away.
And then they tried to give methat stuff again the next day
and I was like, no, I don't wantthat.
And they kept trying to forceme on that stuff.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
But he excuses to do things to me.
This is a similar story that Ican tell about my dad.
I mean, it was a very similarexperience and my dad was not in
the hospital for COVID, but theway they treated him was this
it was like trying to doprocedure after procedure after
procedure because nobody couldbe in there to monitor, and it
was a.
It's a what I'll call is acommunity hospital with very
similar neighboring actually toCorona regional, which I'll say
(23:50):
it and it was Hemet hospital,which is one of the worst
hospitals in my opinion.
I don't care, I'll say thatpublicly, but it was terrible.
And same thing, the doctor knewnothing about my dad's case and
and telling me that he neededsurgery, but yet he's a pain
doctor, I'm like what the heckis going on yeah, I think, I
(24:12):
think they try to use us asguinea pigs when they don't have
an audience well, no, no,advocate you got
Speaker 2 (24:18):
nobody there to box ideas off of to witness.
Yeah, speak for you you.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
Speaking of that, I heard some things in the
hallways because I was awake allthe time.
I hardly slept.
I was trying to train myself towatch the clock, as I call it,
try and sleep a little bit, wakeup a little bit as soon as I
heard a noise or whatever whichisn't good as well, because I
mean you need your sleep rightand the things that the nurses
were saying in the hallways ohyeah, another one's dead.
(24:45):
Oh well, let's try this.
And this didn't work, let'sjust try this.
I felt like we were just guineapigs in there, like you say,
like there was nobodycontrolling anything and
everybody was just doingwhatever they felt, you know,
and there was only two of usthat weren't on the ventilator
and we were the only two thatleft there while I was there.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
The only two that did not go on the ventilator.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Not go on the ventilator.
There was like 20 people thatdidn't make it while I was in
the hospital.
Wow, the doctor kept coming in.
Oh yeah, another one.
Oh, sorry I'm late, I just hadto put this one down.
Switch this machine off, switchthat off.
I mean, in the hospital wasactually crazy, you know, like
human life meant nothing.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Well, there was reimbursement by Medicare for
those that passed or wereclaimed as COVID deaths.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
So it's not the mortuary that made money.
Yeah, it's the hospital thatmade money.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
Well, that's what that list was saying.
Like they get paid for thedeaths.
You know, and I swear man, likeI saw the list play out like in
real time and you know when adoctor comes in every day and
goes oh Mr Bird, you're stillalive.
Why are you still alive?
You should be dead by now.
And I'm like what he's like?
(26:00):
Yeah, we need the bed, you needto hurry up.
You know things like that andif I had the strength I would
have grabbed that doctor the oneday, like I still asked him to
come closer Because we caughthim out lying so much to my wife
.
I was on the phone with my wifeat one stage and I was
monitoring, because I kind oflearned how to monitor my own
(26:21):
oxygen.
You know, drop it a little bit,see how I work with it and then
if it's still bad, then I'll upthe oxygen.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
I was kind of doing my own experiments there.
They don't even send in arespiratory therapist to do
breathing exercises or anythingwhen you have pneumonia.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
There's a whole protocol for helping strengthen
the lungs I had a guy come in, ayoungster who was supposed to
be a physiotherapist.
He lifted me up.
I mean, I hadn't done anyexercise or anything for like
four weeks or five weeks when Iwas Through sedentary in bed.
Yeah, I've been in bed.
I can't feel my legs, I mean,at that stage he set me up and
(26:59):
he tried to make me stand and Igot into a coughing fit, as you
do with the COVID, and it was sobad I thought I was going to
choke, and he just sat me downand left.
He just left me there and I waslike pushing panic buttons and
whatever.
And eventually another nursecame and put me back in the bed
and I couldn't actually believeit.
(27:20):
Like you're supposed to be aphysiotherapist, surely you
should start slowly.
But yeah, it was the way I wastreated, especially at night
with some of the nurses there.
Some of the nurses would comein and they'd be from Nigeria or
wherever.
I don't know where they'regetting them from, but they'd
(27:40):
try and play with the oxygen.
And I caught the one nursetrying to move my meters and I
was like what are you doing?
She said no, I just want to seewhat happened.
I said please, step away, stepaway.
And luckily I was awake,because the one night I did fall
asleep.
I woke up and my oxygen wasmuch higher again and I said to
the nurse why is my oxygen backon like 24?
(28:02):
They said no, I thought youwere battling to be the little
one.
So I just pushed it up again.
I said but I've been workingwith it for days trying to get
it down to like four.
Now you've pushed it up again.
Now I've got to start again.
And she started shouting at meand like literally, I was
treated like a kid.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
So you were saying that, the things that they were
saying to your wife.
Yeah so you guys kind of likefigured out between the two of
you that you were being told twodifferent things.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
Yeah.
So coming back to that, so Iwas on the phone with my wife
the one day and I was tellingher my oxygen has come down to
15, you know the oxygen metersand stuff.
It's got to go down to fourbefore you can leave.
And I was down to 15 at thatstage and my oxygen levels were
89.
I think it was coming up to 89.
So I was kind of you know,getting it quite nice and she
(28:54):
said I'm very confused becausethe doctor just said to me your
levels are going down and you'renot going to make it, and I was
like that's impossible because,I'm looking straight at the
meter and apparently yourmeter's gone up to 35 liters or
whatever.
And I was like no.
And he walked in as I wastalking to her and I said to him
(29:14):
why are you lying to my wife?
And he said I've got the chartin front of me.
I said you haven't even come inhere.
I haven't seen you for days,but you're looking at a chart.
Where are you getting thosenumbers from?
Oh yeah, I write the numbersdown.
I phone the nurse.
I said that's impossible, bud.
I'm literally looking at thething.
He goes oh yeah, but you've gotto go on the ventilator.
I started talking like that.
(29:35):
And that's when, in thishospital again, you're fired.
I literally fired the doctor,um, and I said to him if I can
walk, I'm coming to find you.
And uh, yeah, so we, we caughtthem out lying like multiple
times to my wife because shesaid they're phoning me every
day to say I must make planswith the mortuary and stuff like
(29:58):
what's happening, and shecouldn't me.
So she didn't know how bad Iwas or how I was improving or
whatever.
So it was difficult for her aswell.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
So she couldn't like drop off, like I remember going
and getting some of my dad'sbelongings, or like taking him
something and they would comeget it and take it in yeah, so
we did some of that.
So you got your phone.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
Yeah.
So I got my phone about twoweeks in and also I had to not
bribe a nurse, but I had twonurses that were kind of helping
me and they'd come and tell mesecrets.
Like they're coming in.
The doctor's coming today.
He's going to try to do this.
Don't do that.
You know, don't do this, don'tdo that do you remember?
like, what like yeah, well, theone thing was actually going to
(30:39):
the toilet so that they wouldhave a a little bucket there for
you to go.
So you get out of bed which Idon't know how, because you
can't stand, and you're supposedto go to the toilet.
But she's telling me thatpeople are dying on the toilet.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
So they use the toilet and they're actually
having heart attacks becauseyour body can't take it.
So she was saying make surethat don't do that.
So let a nurse come there witha bedpan and help you, don't get
out of the bed and don't dothat.
Her father was actually hecticwith COVID and he was an old man
, he was like 70 something andshe took him home and she was
(31:16):
nursing him at home because theywere treating him so bad.
So she was helping me and Iwish I could remember her name.
And then there was another guyas well, maybe she'll hear this
podcast.
Yeah, let's hope so, because I'dlove them to reach out to me,
because I really want to meetthem.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Let's give thanks to the nurses that are also
conspiracy theorists.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Exactly exactly.
And there was another guy aswell and I said to him when I
get out of here, I want to playgolf with you or whatever, and
he's actually from Corona.
He also helped me big time.
Even when he wasn't on my shift.
He'd come in and see and makesure that you know I was doing
the right things.
And he also said things likeyour heart rate's going to go up
and they're not going to tellyou how to drop it, they're just
(31:56):
going to come in and try andEKG and stuff.
And he taught me how to breatheto get the heart rate down and
the oxygen up and how to calmdown because your body, you
start to panic, especially inthat.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Yeah, it's stressful.
The hospital, it's a provenfact.
It's a stressful environment.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
Yeah, it was very stressful from the minute I got
there.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
But number one removing your loved ones from
you.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
And, like you already said, your wife is the one that
calms you and has that ability.
Well, that was the hardestthing, I think not having
anybody there.
Yeah, yeah, so that's that'sone of those things too.
It's not even, you know, sostressful for the family.
On the outside, but you on theinside trying to advocate for
yourself.
So you were there.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
What six weeks yeah, just under six weeks.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
And and then.
And then what about like eating?
Or you know, were there whatsix weeks?
Yeah, just under six weeks.
And then what about like eating?
Speaker 3 (32:50):
or, you know, were there any issues with, like,
getting even food?
Yeah, well, that's.
The other thing is I wassmuggling Ensure.
Some of the nurses weresmuggling Ensure to me because
they wouldn't feed me.
They'd give me a piece of toastwith some jam on it in the
morning for breakfast and I waslike I've got to eat more,
you've got to eat, right.
Because, I know that frombodybuilding and stuff, the more
you eat, the better you get.
And they wouldn't feed me.
(33:14):
And then they'd come there witha soup or whatever in the
evening and it would be likespicy as hell, and I'd be like I
can't eat this, I can't eatspice.
And they're like well, that'swhat you got.
And, as I said, I made friendswith these two nurses and she
would go around and stealpeople's Ensure for me, because
they would still put Ensure onthe people's tables even though
(33:35):
they were in the ventilator, andso I was drinking Ensure 24-7,
like as much as I could.
And then also, eventually,whatever they put in front of me
, I ate, even though, like Icouldn't stomach it or whatever,
I'd eat as much as possiblebecause that's a survival thing,
right, and I was.
Yeah, I was just telling themto bring whatever and they were
(33:56):
using the excuse because I'm atype 2 diabetic.
They're like no, we can't giveyou any food.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
But instead they were giving you toast with jam.
Toast with jam, yeah, just theopposite.
I was like, can I?
Speaker 3 (34:05):
have an egg?
Or can I have something else?
Can I have another piece?
And they were like no, can'tgive you any more, because
you're sugar.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
And I was like my sugar is perfect, give me
protein.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Yeah, I'll take a piece of chicken is by eating
yeah, food is medicine yeah youtalk about that a lot, yeah, of
good food which you think in thehospital they give you better
food than what you get yeah, myand my sugar was perfect.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
I'll tell you that.
Yeah, um, but um, that's thefirst time in my life I've
actually eaten to survive.
You know, you see those, those,those movies and stuff where
the guys like eating bugs andthings like that sounds like a
concentration camp.
Yeah, I was kind of at thatpoint Like if there was bugs I
would eat bugs.
The instinct kicked in.
I just needed to eat, you know.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
So you went in.
At what did you say?
300 pounds.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Yeah, I was.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
And you were there for just under six weeks.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
Yeah, and I lost almost 80 pounds while I was in
there.
That yeah, and I lost almost 80pounds while I was in there.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
That's insane.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
Yeah, yeah.
When my wife saw me, when Ileft the hospital, she started
crying.
That's the first time she hadseen me.
Wow yeah, she said I lookedlike a cancer patient.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
So yeah, so how did you get yourself out of there?
Speaker 3 (35:24):
Were you able to get your oxygen sats stable.
I'll tell you what I cheated alot.
You start thinking about thingsand I had to get out of the
hospital, the only way I wasgoing to survive.
That was to get out of there.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
You have a right to discharge yourself, though so
were you concerned they weren'tallowing me to do that.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
I said, okay, I'm done, I want to go home.
They were like no, you can't goanywhere.
Your oxygen has to be full.
You have to be on four litersof oxygen before you can leave.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
What are they going to do?
Arrest you, I mean?
What are they going to do ifyou try to leave?
Speaker 3 (35:54):
I don't know, from the minute I said I wanted to
leave, that I actually gottreated worse.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Yeah, that happened with my dad as well, because I
don't need to touch him again,Don't give him a single pill,
Don't touch him.
I am coming to get him.
And then they tried to convincehim.
My dad wasn't quite with it,but he called me and said
they're asking me why I want toleave and am I sure that I want
to leave because I'm sick.
(36:20):
And I said, dad, you have aright to leave.
You don't have to stay there.
You have a right to leave intoyour own life and your own
health.
And I said just tell them don'ttouch you.
And that's exactly what he did.
They didn't touch him.
They said come get him, we'redone, we're not touching him.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
I said good, Don't lay a lay a hand on him well,
the thing with me is I thinkthey use the covid, the whole
covid security thing, as likeyou can't leave, you've got
covid.
But I was surely at that stageI was like over covid right six
weeks, it's 10 days, right.
And then they came and said, no, you got the other covid you
(36:58):
got long, covid.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Yeah, you got this, but were you testing positive
for?
Speaker 3 (37:01):
it they.
They tested me when they movedme downstairs when I was kind of
getting better to go home,which was also a struggle they
wouldn't actually send me thereAgain.
The nurse came to me and saidokay, they're ready to move you.
They're talking about movingyou, but what they're going to
(37:22):
do is they want to put you in ahome, a hospice or whatever, not
like a long-term health homeand I was like I don't need that
, I can go home, my wife canlook after me.
And she said, yes, that'sexactly what they're going to
tell you.
They're going to come withpamphlets and they're going to
try to push you in the homebecause that's where they're
making money, and as night asday.
They came in five minutes laterand the doctor said another
doctor I'd never met in my lifebefore.
(37:43):
He said I've been reviewingyour case and I think you need
to go into this home.
I was like, don't, even, don't,even.
I don't even want to hear aboutit.
I know exactly what you'regoing to say take your pamphlet
and you can leave.
He's like, yeah, but I'mtelling you you have to go.
Yeah, I said my wife's fetchingme, I'm done.
Um.
So again, she was spot on withthat.
And then they delayed it forthree days, sending me
(38:07):
downstairs.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
My oxygen was at full but they didn't take another
COVID test which anyway, some ofthat was all sketchy too, but
there were false positives andfalse negatives because I was
negative.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
That's why they decided to move me downstairs,
so they did test you and youwere negative they tested me I
was negative and they delayed itfor three days.
I kept saying my oxygen is fine,I'm ready to move me downstairs
.
So they did test you and youwere negative.
They tested me I was negativeand they delayed it for three
days.
I kept saying my oxygen's fine,I'm ready to move, or whatever.
And they're like no waiting fora bed, there's no space
downstairs, you might have tostill go on the ventilator.
(38:38):
And I was like but what are youtalking about?
Like I need to get out of here.
And from that point it actuallygot worse.
When they finally did take medownstairs, they put me in a
room by myself.
I never saw a nurse the wholeday, like they'd come in at
night and put a tray of fooddown and leave.
I never saw anybody.
And at one stage my oxygenactually got caught on the bed
(39:01):
because I lifted the bed up andit cut the oxygen and I was
calling the nurse for about 20minutes.
My oxygen was got caught on thebed because I lifted the bed up
and it cut the oxygen and I wascalling the nurse for about 20
minutes.
My oxygen was dropping anddropping and dropping because
obviously I wasn't getting anyoxygen and he walked in.
He said why are you trying todo that?
I said I got hooked on the bed.
Can you just help me?
He said are you trying to dothat to make me look bad?
Yes, I'm trying to kill myselfto make you look bad, like
(39:22):
anyone's going to care, you know.
So that was a type of you knowthing.
But coming back to how Iactually got out of there, they
make you do a test, which I alsothink is bullshit.
You have to walk to the doorwith a walker.
Your oxygen has to stay at acertain point I can't remember
(39:45):
what it was, but it has to stayat a certain point.
While you're walking to thedoor and back and the door's
probably 10 meters away You'vegot to walk with your and I
hadn't walked at all In fiveweeks or so.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
I haven't walked at all in five weeks.
Speaker 3 (39:59):
I mean I couldn't feel my legs from lying in the
bed.
And the first time they came inand she had such an attitude,
she's like, right, stand up.
And she says, can you dojumping jacks?
I'm like, are you crazy?
I can't do jumping jacks.
She goes, oh no, then you can'tget released.
And she threw the book down andshe left and that was the guy
(40:20):
was quite nice.
He came in and said okay, andthat was after fighting with the
physio, because I had a physio.
An old lady kept coming inthere.
She was like no, don't, youshould go home.
I'm like, listen, I actuallystarted crying.
I was like, please, I just wantto go home.
I don't care if I die at home,I just want to go home Because
the promise I had made to myselfis I would be at home for
(40:41):
Christmas, and it was like threedays before Christmas that I
actually got out of there.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
Yeah, and they were like there's no way You're going
to be out for months.
That was what I kept hearing.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
You're going to be out for months, three months,
four months at least if you makeit, they're going to make all
kinds of money, exactly.
Speaker 3 (40:56):
Exactly, and eventually I got the guy to come
and do the test.
I was like I'm ready for thistest and I prepared mentally and
whatever.
And instead of just walking tothe door, I take one step,
breathe, make sure my oxygen wasgood, and he's like, no, you
can't do it, you've got to keepwalking.
I was like I'm fine, then Itake another step.
(41:17):
My oxygen was settled, I do it.
And eventually I mean it tookme like half an hour to get to
the door and back, but that'swhy I cheated it.
And he looked at me and he saidyou're not supposed to do this.
I said, look, bud, I just wantto go home.
It's Christmas, we don't evenhave a Christmas trip.
I've just got to get home, youknow.
And he was like okay, I'll putit through.
(41:41):
And I still waited another twodays to go.
They're like yeah, your wife'sgot to make sure you've got a
bedpan there and you've got thisthere and oxygen.
And I'm like they just try tokeep me there as long as
possible.
Eventually, when I left, Iplayed that song.
I think it's Elton John.
I'm Still Standing on my phoneand all the nurses just gave me
(42:02):
a look and I was like see youlater.
You know they weren't happy tosee me go, but yeah, that's kind
of how I got out of thereeventually.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
The ventilator death sentence didn't get you no.
Speaker 3 (42:13):
And, like I say, I mean there were days when I
thought am I doing the rightthing, you know, by not getting
on the ventilator, because theway I was treated and you know
if somebody's telling you you'regoing to die if you don't go on
the ventilator every single day, you start thinking to yourself
.
You know maybe they're right,because you're supposed to put
your trust in doctors right andto go through something like
(42:36):
that.
I'll never trust a doctor again, never.
Yeah, they're going to have toearn the trust.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
Yeah, completely different yeah, like your story
is definitely very different,but some things, like you know,
not having surgery, but this isalso pre-covid yeah, you're
pre-covid, but but still, like,there are still things that like
, did you feel like, oh, I haveto advocate for myself or figure
this out, or you were in totaltrust of your journey?
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, at that point I didn't know any
different.
You're going to cut it out.
Yeah, let's cut it out.
That's what else we're going todo, you know.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
Yeah, yeah, but would you, you know?
So, thinking about your ownexperience and you know we, we
talk to people who have health.
You know illnesses, things andadvocating for yourself I mean
yours is like an extremeadvocating for yourself yeah, so
(43:38):
many things that happened thatled to positive outcomes that I
say like great greece, number 5,10, 20, whatever.
So you clearly like yourconspiracy.
You thank your neighbor forbeing a conspiracy theorist well
, and also the timing.
Speaker 3 (43:54):
Uh yeah, you were diagnosed almost two years into
it right year, and a half and atthat point people had already
become leery of the governmentyeah, yeah, I think if it
happened right in the beginning,I probably would have been dead
.
You know, yeah, you wouldn'thave had any other news or
insight as to what to advocatefor, and yeah, I'll tell you one
(44:15):
thing, though what kept mealive is I never thought for one
day I was dying that's aninteresting point because that's
like what Matt said in hisfirst.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
You know, the first podcast that we had was he's
like what are you giving me awill for?
Speaker 3 (44:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
I'm not dead.
I'm not dying.
Speaker 3 (44:31):
And it's the weirdest thing, because people are
telling you you're dying andyou're like, no, I'm not dying,
and it's like, no, I haven'tdone all the things.
What are you talking about?
And I think it's different fromme.
Like you know, car accident andyou whatever you know.
But yeah, there wasn't onesingle day when somebody said to
me you're dying or you're introuble when I thought to myself
(44:54):
, oh yeah, maybe I am.
It wasn't one single moment andI think that's what got me
through.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
Yeah, yeah, and then to keep basically telling them
that they're crazy.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
I'm not sick, I can go home, I can get better.
Speaker 3 (45:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
And I think that that is like the mind is so powerful
.
Yeah, and crafting survival.
I think it comes down to that,that also mental fortitude of
saying, nope, I'm going to getmyself through, not today,
junior.
Speaker 3 (45:26):
Yeah, and I am quite a very mentally positive person.
I'm the type of guy whensomebody says you can't do
something, I'll go out of my wayto do it, just to prove
somebody wrong, which isprobably not always the best.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
That's why we like each other.
Yeah, I'm like bullshit.
Speaker 3 (45:43):
Yeah, not always the best.
That's why we like each other.
Yeah, I'm like bullshit, yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
You know, hold my beer, yeah, hold my beer I'm
going in.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
That's a bad idea.
When do we start?
Yeah, I've always been that guy, you know, and I think that's
kind of the whole South Africanmentality as well.
You know, we talk about thewhole growing up and things, but
we had to fend for ourselves,you know.
We were on the streets and theway I was brought up.
(46:09):
Yeah, you want something, yougo out and get it you know so
people going through difficulttimes.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
what would be like that number one thing that you
would tell somebody?
Speaker 3 (46:24):
Stay positive, that's .
I think that's my number onetakeaway from this.
And, yeah, and also feel yourbody.
You know you can feel yourinstincts are actually very good
when it comes to survival, andthat's something I realized as
well.
Like, when you're in thatsituation, people go, oh, no, no
, no, the doctor's right, orthis one's right, I can't be.
(46:45):
You know, I know I feel tired,but I don't need to sleep.
Like, just listen to yourself.
There's that voice in your headfor a reason.
And I think, yeah, that wouldbe a takeaway.
Speaker 1 (46:56):
Yeah Well, awesome Thanks for sharing your story.
I think we could probably talkabout all that other stuff for
another podcast and all thecrazy things during apartheid
and growing up and maybe one daywe'll get to revisit that and
surviving that situation.
But thanks for sharing yourstory with us and being a part
of this and thanks for helpingus produce our podcast.
Speaker 3 (47:18):
Cool, thanks for having me on and hopefully I'll
share some insight that'svaluable yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
Crazy story, I think the underlying theme is stay
positive and listen to yourinner voice.
Speaker 3 (47:29):
Yeah, yeah, the inner voice is powerful, it's
powerful.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
But how do you not second guess it?
Speaker 3 (47:36):
I think that's the biggest problem is people second
guess it too much.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
Believing that you're right, that you know what you
know.
Speaker 3 (47:41):
It's the same as you know.
I get it.
Too much Believing that you'reright that you know what you
know.
It's the same as you know.
I get it.
Quite often you look at a pieceof food and you go that doesn't
look right, don't eat it.
You know, like that simple.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
Matt will still eat it, even if it's got mold on it.
He'll just say just brush itoff, eat it.
Just say just brush it off, Eatit.
I'm like that's disgusting.
Speaker 2 (48:01):
Yeah, Well you're not yeah Right, and that's my inner
voice telling me.
Speaker 3 (48:07):
yeah, I know, it's just a little mold.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
It's only been sitting out for two days.
Speaker 3 (48:10):
It's not that bad yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
You know, remember, no matter the challenge, there
are extraordinary people outthere overcoming the
unimaginable.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
Their journeys remind us that grit and hope are
powerful.
Join us next time as wecontinue to explore the lives of
those who face life's biggestchallenges head on.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
Until then, stay strong, stay hopeful and keep
crafting your own survival.
Speaker 1 (48:33):
Tune in weekly and follow us on Instagram TikTok
and Facebook.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
This is Crafting Survival.
This is Crafting Survival, a podcast that is not
just about cancer.
It's about the challenges inlife.
It's about surviving,overcoming, developing plans,
speaking with survivors, peoplewho have dealt with cancer,
dealt with other challenges,experts in the field of medicine
, science, innovation anyone whohas dealt with life's
(00:20):
challenges.
This podcast for you.
Sit back and enjoy CraftingSurvival.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Today's podcast.
Warren Burley survived the 2020pandemic COVID in not such a
fashionable way, but you wentthrough the trenches and you had
to dig deep and get yourselfout.
That's where we're going todiscuss that journey today, so
(00:53):
go ahead and tell us a littlebit about yourself, warren.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Thanks for having me on.
South African born.
I came over to the US 10 yearsago.
I own a production company anda podcast for myself, emmy award
winning.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Got to throw that in there.
That's why we have you doingour podcast too.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Tell us about that, emmy.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Yeah, we won an Emmy recently in June, for a
commercial campaign we did forRancho Water.
We did a couple of commercialsfor them and yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Nice, so these were commercials aired on local TV.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Local TV and YouTube, things like that.
Yeah, social media.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Didn't you win an Emmy before?
This was the first Emmy.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Emmy nominated.
Oh, emmy nominated Before.
Yeah, this is my first Emmy.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Oh, awesome.
What were you nominated for?
Speaker 3 (01:37):
A different water district, Western Water, also
for a commercial campaign.
We did.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
So talk a little bit about your time in south africa
um, just growing up there, say.
Since this is a podcast titledum crafting survival, I think
it's probably relevant to youknow what you dealt with during
covid I was brought up throughapartheid, the apartheid days.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Apartheid was a was a bad you know time in everyone's
life and stuff.
And then obviously I was stillthere when it changed over in 94
, when Nelson Mandela wasreleased from jail and stuff and
things changed a lot.
The reason we left is, firstly,was a future for my son.
(02:19):
I wanted him to grow up in aplace where he had opportunity
White male in South Africa.
Even at the moment it'sdifficult and I didn't want him
growing up in that environment.
So that was one of the reasons.
The other reason is it becamequite dangerous.
I had a BMW at one stage and Ihad people at my working.
(02:42):
They're watching you.
You should get rid of your BMW.
You shouldn't be driving carslike that and things like that
opens your eyes to like whyshouldn't you be allowed to have
whatever you work for?
And I think it's got a lot todo with poverty in South.
Africa.
You know, people get desperateand things.
(03:03):
And I mean my mom has beenhijacked four times.
My brother has been hijacked.
They came into my businesstwice with AK-47s and took all
our wallets and stuff and I justfelt like that's not somewhere
where I want to be.
You know, luckily for me, I wasdoing a lot of American stuff,
so I managed to make my way intothe US.
(03:23):
Obviously, the US iseverybody's first choice, I mean
the land of opportunity, right,and that's yeah, that's why I'm
here.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Is that why you decided to start your podcast of
the expats?
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Yeah.
So my podcast mainly, you know,showcases South African expats
that have moved overseas and howthey got there, and you know
they've all got interestingstories.
You know it kind of grew fromthe COVID era.
You know, I lay in the hospitalbed and I was like I really
(03:54):
want to do a podcast and heareverybody's story, because I
love hearing people's stories,and especially South Africans
that have made it overseas ornot made it overseas.
You know, it's nice to find outif the grass is always greener
on the other side.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
And that's one of my end questions in my podcast is
is the grass greener on theother side?
Because everybody goes throughthe same struggles and whatever,
and there's always a reason why, like why did you come overseas
?
What was the you know?
What was your motivation?
How did you get there?
Would you go back?
Things like that.
And yeah, that's how thepodcast started, hence the words
(04:29):
South Africans Abroad.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Yeah, that's what I was going to ask you.
What's it called?
So it's called South AfricansAbroad.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
South Africans Abroad on Apple Podcast and Spotify.
I feel like the country isslowly healing and we're getting
better.
I mean, I look at the UFC onSaturday.
Drakus fought in the UFC andhow he's bringing the country
together and the South Africanrugby and things.
You look at some of the videosand it's black and white
together and they're allpartying and stuff like that,
(04:57):
which is great.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
It's interesting that it's sports.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Sports always brings people together.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah we were just talking about in other countries
, like here in the US, andpeople who are athletes.
Yes, we praise them, but theOlympians you know from other
countries get a lot like.
They get a lot of recognitionand, yes, many of ours get a lot
of recognition, but it's stillvery different and the way that
the monetary value yeah, and theway that the other countries
really honor their athletes andhow they come together, but but
(05:25):
anyway.
So I would love to just kind offast forward for time's sake,
because I think we could talkabout apartheid and surviving
all of that.
But like that's its own podcast.
So crafting survival in thehospital.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
So we'll fast forward to COVID and maybe tell us
about just when you firststarted getting sick, you know
and then the fact that you endedup in the hospital because not
everybody did who got yeah, well, um, I was actually in new york
, okay, filming a reality show,um called in the doghouse and um
(06:03):
, which is is quite ironicanyway, that's why I laughed.
Yeah, and the guy that wasfilming with us, he was actually
sick and I didn't know.
I mean, he was coughing in thecar when I picked him up and I
asked him if he was sick and no,I'm not sick, I'm fine,
whatever.
But it turned out he was thecarrier.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
So real quick timeline.
Are we talking like early 2020?
Speaker 3 (06:28):
This is 21.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Okay, so after we had had a year of social distancing
.
And masks, exactly Plexiglass.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
We had just opened up to some filming, obviously with
some mandates like masks anddistancing and things like that,
and we had to have certainthings on set.
We had to have a COVID personon set to make sure people were
doing the right thing.
I actually got my certificatefor COVID, like a COVID master
(06:57):
type thing and yeah, which isalso ironic- COVID master.
COVID master and I literallyfeel like I am the master and
yeah.
So I mean, we got on set and wefilmed for two days and I
started to feel a little sick.
Then one night I got the chillsand things and I took some
(07:18):
ibuprofen and stuff and I wasokay.
The next day I was fine.
I was back on set, neverthought to do a COVID test, just
had a headache.
I still felt fine.
I took some tablets and I was100%.
And we filmed the whole week andthen when I left to go to the
(07:38):
airport, I thought let me justdo a COVID test, because they
were giving out those free COVIDtests at the airport, you know,
and because I didn't feel right, I felt like something was
wrong.
I thought let me just gettested, just in case.
And I got tested and as Istepped foot on the plane I got
the text you're COVID positive.
I mean we're all wearing masksand stuff.
(08:00):
I thought, okay, I'll be fine,because I've had it for a week.
Then seven days already Ishould be fine.
And while I was on the airplaneI started to get the chills and
because of the pressure in theairplane was crushing my lungs
and I started to get pneumonia.
And as I was flying from NewYork, the further I got, the
(08:23):
worse I got and I was shakingand it was pretty bad and then
by the time I got back to theairport I had to drive back from
LA all the way to Corona.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
So real quick on the airplane.
Did you try and hide it?
I'm sure you had people sitnext to you, right?
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Yeah, I had people sit next to me but the air
hostess came and gave meblankets because I was freezing
and, yeah, I'm sure they couldsee I was sick.
I didn't say anything, or Ididn't try hard to do anything
because I didn't think it wasthat bad, you know.
(08:58):
But I started to get the sweatsand things.
We had masks on.
Obviously, on the airplane youhave to wear masks and things.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Those were only symptoms on the plane.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
There was many symptoms you didn't have to
visit the and things um.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Those were only symptoms on the plane you didn't
.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
There was my visit the toilet.
No, I didn't have to.
No, I wasn't coughing oranything like it, I didn't
sneeze or anything.
I just felt like I had thesweats.
I thought, okay, it's not thatbad, because I had it before, so
maybe it's just, you know, justa symptom no, that is a long
trek, like right matt.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Matt had a illness scare from california to new
york the opposite direction, andthe longer we were in the air
the worse he got yeah, it wasbad was the worst plane trip of
my life, like I thought I wasgonna eventually.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Before we landed I thought yeah, I thought I was
done yeah, mine too, except Idid have to visit the restroom
and had it coming out of bothends.
It wasn't COVID, it was just a24-hour flu, but given my
history, my mind immediatelywent to shit.
The cancer's back.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Yeah, yeah, I tell you, it's not a good feeling to
be on a plane, because you'restuck, Stuck yeah.
There's nothing you can do, youknow.
And also you start to panic alittle bit and my wife always
calms me down, like whenever Ipanic or anything happens, she's
there and she calms me down.
She has this way of calming medown and I couldn't phone her, I
(10:16):
couldn't do nothing.
So I was, you know.
I mean it turned into a longflight.
When I landed, I rushed to mycar or whatever, and I phoned
her from the car and I said I'mnot feeling so great, you know.
And she suggested which I don'tknow if it was a good thing or
bad thing that I maybe shouldstay in a hotel for the night in
(10:40):
case I brought her home.
But I wasn't well at all.
So you know I needed some help.
Eventually I went home and Istarted to feel a bit better.
She gave me some ibuprofen andstuff and then I started to
throw up later that eveningbecause my body was lacking
oxygen.
So I was trying to get oxygen.
(11:00):
So I started throwing up alittle bit and then she checked
my oxygen and my oxygen was inthe low 70s, which I've actually
had friends die on, like 75.
So I got a fright and I waslike, okay, maybe we should just
go to the hospital get someoxygen and I'll be fine.
We ended up going to thehospital emergency that night.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
You're a big guy Like you're hence Burley, but you're
a big guy Like you're, henceBurley but, you're a big guy.
So at that time you're likelike, how big are you?
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Well, that's yeah 300 pounds.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Yeah, and you're tall .
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Six foot.
You know yeah and yeah.
So we got to.
We got to the emergency room.
I said you go park the car,I'll go inside, just check in,
you know.
And I walked inside and I saidto the lady I think I've got
COVID Batting to breathe alittle bit.
She rushed me to the back andthat was the last time I saw my
(11:57):
wife in six weeks.
Oh wow.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
So they turned her away immediately.
They said to her she can't comeinside.
My oxygen was 60, 63, I thinkit was.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
At that point you know that wasn't obviously the
total lockdown period.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
No.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
And they still didn't let her in because a lot of the
like, academic centers andhospitals and this was the
weirdest thing to me is thatthey would let in the first,
like you're one person you knowand then, if you were going to
die, you could have two people.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
So you're now at this place and you're past the
lockdown and they still won'tlet her come in.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
They wouldn't let her come into the door at all.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
And this is like a community hospital or yeah, yeah
.
Interesting.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
In Corona, corona, yeah, I eventually found out.
They called it the deathhospital.
Yikes, yeah.
So yeah, they wouldn't let herin at all.
The doctor actually wentoutside and said to her he's not
going to make the night, gomake plans.
They wouldn't let her see me.
You go from here, okay.
(13:08):
Okay.
Yeah, she was very confused.
She was like but he just walkedinside and they're like yeah,
he's oxygen's really low, he'snot gonna make it.
There's no way he's making itand I'm inside weird yeah, and I
was inside like really confused.
I couldn't talk to her, I didn'thave my cell phone or anything.
She had my phone in the car.
Then they put me in this roomand these guys came in dressed
(13:31):
like Darth Vader and it was likepanic stations everywhere.
I just had people poking mewith needles and I had two
things of oxygen on me, likeboth at 100%.
And I was confused because Ifelt okay and I wasn't sure what
was going on.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
You felt relatively okay, Otherwise you wouldn't
have been there.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
Yeah Well, I felt, you know I walked in there, you
know it would be different ifthey rolled me in Right and the
guy was saying you're not goingto make the night, like that's.
When it started, straight fromthe get-go, it was like you're
not going to make it and I waslike what are you talking about?
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Yeah, that's so bizarre.
Did you feel like you were inlike the twilight zone?
Speaker 3 (14:10):
It was really bizarre .
Speaker 1 (14:14):
It honestly felt like I walked through the doors in
the twilight, like they weretrying to convince you, you're
not going to survive.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Yes, and we'll get to that, because it felt like the
whole time that's what they werefighting for, for me not to
make it.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
What do you think that?
Why would they do that?
What is your theory behind?
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Look, I'm no theorist or you know, I don't believe in
all that stuff.
But interesting enough, myneighbor he's into conspiracies
like big time and he said to mewhen COVID started, he told me
the whole thing about COVID.
He said don't go on therespirator, make sure you don't
get remdesivir, don't get thevaccination, and I just thought
this guy was crazy.
And he also gave me a list.
(14:56):
He says when you go to thehospital they're going to do
these five things to you, andwhen you're in the hospital and
it's playing out exactly likethat.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Exactly like he told you.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Your mind goes straight to conspiracies Like oh
my god, they're trying to killme, it's because you're South
African.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
It's because I'm South African.
There's a bounty on your head.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Yeah, it was the strangest thing as well.
I kept thinking of the end ofthe list.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
It was like they get paid from the, the crematorium
or whatever um well, it'smedicare benefits that they get
one to diagnose you covid, thentwo if you die from covid
correct.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Yeah, it was like diagnose remdesivir, put him on
the ventilator, he dies.
We get paid from, get paid fromthe mortuary or whatever.
And I just kept thinking ofthat list.
And as I was thinking of thelist, the list was playing out
and all I kept saying was I'mnot going on the ventilator, not
going on the ventilator, likeyou don't have a choice.
(15:56):
I said no, I do have a choice,and I actually got into an
argument with the people at thehospital.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
So that's a.
Can I have you pause?
Because I think that this is areally important point, that I
think that people don't think,when it comes to their
healthcare, that they have achoice.
So I think you just saidsomething really important.
No, I do have a choice, right,and so you were demanding.
You know what you felt was bestfor you, right?
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Well, you know, with this whole COVID thing, it was
very confusing from the word goWell you know, with this whole
COVID thing it was veryconfusing from the word go and
there was conflictinginformation coming from both
sides and I think it was such ashock when it first happened I
(16:41):
mean I'm sure for everybodyright that you weren't sure what
to believe and I think myinstincts kicked in the minute.
I was at the hospital andeverything was playing out like
I said and people were dying onthe ventilator.
I mean I had people in SouthAfrica that I knew very well and
very close to that were dying.
They were going on theventilator dead.
Going on the ventilator dead, Imean at least seven or eight
people that I know and they weresaying something to me.
(17:01):
And then also with this vaccine, it just happened so quickly I
was like no, I'd like to do someresearch first on this vaccine.
I mean, they were just forcingthe vaccine on people and I just
found it all a bit odd and mywife and I sat down and we're
like, okay, we're not going totake the vaccine, if this
happens, we're not going to goon the ventilator and we're
(17:22):
going to have to fight ithappens, we're not going to go
on the ventilator and we'regoing to have to fight it.
And and there were times whereI was second guessing myself in
the hospital because they tryand talk you into it like mr
burley, you're going to die ifyou do not do this now.
And there was a point where Iwas like, oh my god, like am I
doing the right thing?
Speaker 1 (17:38):
so it's like a they're creating a more sense of
urgency and fear correct basecare yeah, yeah yeah, and.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Yeah and it's.
Yeah, there was, as I say, butthe first week I don't remember
anything because from that roomI don't remember going into the
actual ICU.
All I remember is that I wastelling them no, I'm not going
on the ventilator, not going onthe ventilator, and they
actually had me sign a piece ofpaper and I said make sure I'm
on the ventilator.
And they actually had me sign apiece of paper and I said make
(18:06):
sure I don't go on theventilator, and they kept
injecting me with stuff.
And then I don't rememberanything for the first week.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
You don't know what they were injecting you with.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
No, I had no idea.
Luckily, my wife was in contactwith them every day and the
first thing she said was don'tgive him remdesivir.
And they were like we'vealready given him three doses
and give him remdesivir.
And they were like we'vealready given him three doses
and they're like why are yougiving him three doses?
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Because that's all we know.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
That's the protocol we've been given.
And she said stop, don't givehim any more.
So luckily, because they weregoing to give me six doses of
remdesivir, which we heard wasnot a good thing, because I mean
, at that point we were allguinea pigs, right the whole
covid thing, and we were justplaying out like things we heard
and again, not conspiracytheorists, but we were listening
(18:52):
to a conspiracy guy and whenthings start playing out, yeah
your instincts kick in, you know.
And he was also in contact withher saying make sure they don't
do this, make sure they don't dothis, um.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
So she was communicating with the hospital
every day so when you said no tothe ventilator, something
happened, because I think youand I were talking about the dnr
.
Do not resuscitate yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Well, at one stage they came to me and they put a
dnr band on my wrist and I waslike what's that for?
They said, well, we're notgoing to resuscitate you if
something happens.
And I I said, but why?
She said because you don't wantto go on the ventilator.
And I said going on theventilator and resuscitating me
is two different things.
If I have a heart attackbecause people are having heart
(19:36):
attacks in the hospital Stress,yeah, from the stress I said I
still want to be resuscitatedand she said, no, we're refusing
that.
This is your choice and you'regoing to have to live with it.
That's what I was told.
So I was monitoring my heartrate every second.
(19:56):
But, yeah, that was one of thethings that shocked me, the way
I was treated in the hospital.
Yeah, and they were trying tolead you with a carrot.
Yeah, yeah, they were trying toget lead you with a carrot.
Yeah, um, yeah, they weretrying to force me to go on the
ventilator.
Um, and I mean, I can tell youa story about the guy next to me
with a ventilator, because hehad the same thing.
He didn't want to go on theventilator.
I was in in hospital for twoweeks when he arrived and he was
(20:18):
still doing business on hisphone on the bed.
He was, he was okay, um,obviously on oxygen and stuff,
but he was doing business on hisphone and we were chatting.
Um, yeah, it was about two orthree weeks in and he was
talking about chess and stuff.
Um, also a foreign guy, um, Ican't remember his name, um, but
the one night he needed to goto the bathroom and because we
(20:41):
had been in the bed for so long,we couldn't walk, um, and we
kept calling the nurse andcalling the nurse.
He called for about an hour andthen I to go to the bathroom
and because we had been in thebed for so long, we couldn't
walk and we kept calling thenurse and calling the nurse.
He called for about an hour andthen I started to call and they
didn't come.
I mean, this is the ICU unit,he's supposed to be on call.
And eventually he said I've gotto go and I said, well, you
can't get out the bed becauseyou're going to fall.
And the next minute I justheard wah, he fell off the bed
(21:02):
and all the alarms went off andall the nurses came running and
they forced him on theventilator.
He was also saying, no, I'm notgoing on the ventilator.
And the guy I called Dr Deathwas standing over him saying you
nod your head, yes, otherwisewe're going to let you die.
And I was watching this wholething happen right in front of
(21:22):
me with eyes wide open, and hekept looking at me and smiling
and eventually the nurse noddedhis head and they put him on the
ventilator.
Now I don't know if the guyever made it, because I left
before you know, before he did,but that's a case of being
(21:43):
forced on the ventilator.
And that doctor actually came tome the next day and he was like
, hey, buddy, oh pal, like Ididn't know the doctor from my
borough soap.
And he said, hey, so you sawwhat happened last night.
And I was like, uh, no, becauseI was scared to say anything.
He said, yeah, yeah, I saw youwatching us, it's fine.
Um, I just need you ifsomething happens in court, if
(22:03):
you can stand up and just stand,you're on my side, right, buddy
?
And I was so scared, like, witheverything that was happening
in that hospital, I was like,yeah, sure, no problem.
Yeah, I'm on your side, man, noproblem.
And that guy also, from thatday on, tried to intimidate me
with things.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
What kind of doctor was he?
Speaker 3 (22:22):
He was the on-call doctor at night, but you don't
know what his specialty was, noidea.
And yeah, I called him Dr Death.
So every time I spoke to mywife I was like Dr Death's in
tonight and I never sleptBecause they would also give me
a sleeping tablet, because theywanted me to sleep and I
wouldn't sleep at night becauseI had things happening there.
(22:42):
And the one night he came to meand they gave me a sleeping
tablet and I was having theseweird dreams and stuff.
It was like something hectic andI started to sweat and then my
heart rate went up and he ran inthere with the EKG machine.
He's like, yeah, you haven'tgot a headache, I've got to sort
you out.
And I was like, no, I'm fine,I'm fine, I'm fine.
And he was like no, no, and hestrapped me up for things and I
(23:05):
said I promise you I'm fine.
And then 10 minutes later hegoes oh, okay, yeah,
everything's good.
And he walked away.
And then they tried to give methat stuff again the next day
and I was like, no, I don't wantthat.
And they kept trying to forceme on that stuff.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
But he excuses to do things to me.
This is a similar story that Ican tell about my dad.
I mean, it was a very similarexperience and my dad was not in
the hospital for COVID, but theway they treated him was this
it was like trying to doprocedure after procedure after
procedure because nobody couldbe in there to monitor, and it
was a.
It's a what I'll call is acommunity hospital with very
similar neighboring actually toCorona regional, which I'll say
(23:50):
it and it was Hemet hospital,which is one of the worst
hospitals in my opinion.
I don't care, I'll say thatpublicly, but it was terrible.
And same thing, the doctor knewnothing about my dad's case and
and telling me that he neededsurgery, but yet he's a pain
doctor, I'm like what the heckis going on yeah, I think, I
(24:12):
think they try to use us asguinea pigs when they don't have
an audience well, no, no,advocate you got
Speaker 2 (24:18):
nobody there to box ideas off of to witness.
Yeah, speak for you you.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
Speaking of that, I heard some things in the
hallways because I was awake allthe time.
I hardly slept.
I was trying to train myself towatch the clock, as I call it,
try and sleep a little bit, wakeup a little bit as soon as I
heard a noise or whatever whichisn't good as well, because I
mean you need your sleep rightand the things that the nurses
were saying in the hallways ohyeah, another one's dead.
(24:45):
Oh well, let's try this.
And this didn't work, let'sjust try this.
I felt like we were just guineapigs in there, like you say,
like there was nobodycontrolling anything and
everybody was just doingwhatever they felt, you know,
and there was only two of usthat weren't on the ventilator
and we were the only two thatleft there while I was there.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
The only two that did not go on the ventilator.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Not go on the ventilator.
There was like 20 people thatdidn't make it while I was in
the hospital.
Wow, the doctor kept coming in.
Oh yeah, another one.
Oh, sorry I'm late, I just hadto put this one down.
Switch this machine off, switchthat off.
I mean, in the hospital wasactually crazy, you know, like
human life meant nothing.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Well, there was reimbursement by Medicare for
those that passed or wereclaimed as COVID deaths.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
So it's not the mortuary that made money.
Yeah, it's the hospital thatmade money.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
Well, that's what that list was saying.
Like they get paid for thedeaths.
You know, and I swear man, likeI saw the list play out like in
real time and you know when adoctor comes in every day and
goes oh Mr Bird, you're stillalive.
Why are you still alive?
You should be dead by now.
And I'm like what he's like?
(26:00):
Yeah, we need the bed, you needto hurry up.
You know things like that andif I had the strength I would
have grabbed that doctor the oneday, like I still asked him to
come closer Because we caughthim out lying so much to my wife
.
I was on the phone with my wifeat one stage and I was
monitoring, because I kind oflearned how to monitor my own
(26:21):
oxygen.
You know, drop it a little bit,see how I work with it and then
if it's still bad, then I'll upthe oxygen.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
I was kind of doing my own experiments there.
They don't even send in arespiratory therapist to do
breathing exercises or anythingwhen you have pneumonia.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
There's a whole protocol for helping strengthen
the lungs I had a guy come in, ayoungster who was supposed to
be a physiotherapist.
He lifted me up.
I mean, I hadn't done anyexercise or anything for like
four weeks or five weeks when Iwas Through sedentary in bed.
Yeah, I've been in bed.
I can't feel my legs, I mean,at that stage he set me up and
(26:59):
he tried to make me stand and Igot into a coughing fit, as you
do with the COVID, and it was sobad I thought I was going to
choke, and he just sat me downand left.
He just left me there and I waslike pushing panic buttons and
whatever.
And eventually another nursecame and put me back in the bed
and I couldn't actually believeit.
(27:20):
Like you're supposed to be aphysiotherapist, surely you
should start slowly.
But yeah, it was the way I wastreated, especially at night
with some of the nurses there.
Some of the nurses would comein and they'd be from Nigeria or
wherever.
I don't know where they'regetting them from, but they'd
(27:40):
try and play with the oxygen.
And I caught the one nursetrying to move my meters and I
was like what are you doing?
She said no, I just want to seewhat happened.
I said please, step away, stepaway.
And luckily I was awake,because the one night I did fall
asleep.
I woke up and my oxygen wasmuch higher again and I said to
the nurse why is my oxygen backon like 24?
(28:02):
They said no, I thought youwere battling to be the little
one.
So I just pushed it up again.
I said but I've been workingwith it for days trying to get
it down to like four.
Now you've pushed it up again.
Now I've got to start again.
And she started shouting at meand like literally, I was
treated like a kid.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
So you were saying that, the things that they were
saying to your wife.
Yeah so you guys kind of likefigured out between the two of
you that you were being told twodifferent things.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
Yeah.
So coming back to that, so Iwas on the phone with my wife
the one day and I was tellingher my oxygen has come down to
15, you know the oxygen metersand stuff.
It's got to go down to fourbefore you can leave.
And I was down to 15 at thatstage and my oxygen levels were
89.
I think it was coming up to 89.
So I was kind of you know,getting it quite nice and she
(28:54):
said I'm very confused becausethe doctor just said to me your
levels are going down and you'renot going to make it, and I was
like that's impossible because,I'm looking straight at the
meter and apparently yourmeter's gone up to 35 liters or
whatever.
And I was like no.
And he walked in as I wastalking to her and I said to him
(29:14):
why are you lying to my wife?
And he said I've got the chartin front of me.
I said you haven't even come inhere.
I haven't seen you for days,but you're looking at a chart.
Where are you getting thosenumbers from?
Oh yeah, I write the numbersdown.
I phone the nurse.
I said that's impossible, bud.
I'm literally looking at thething.
He goes oh yeah, but you've gotto go on the ventilator.
I started talking like that.
(29:35):
And that's when, in thishospital again, you're fired.
I literally fired the doctor,um, and I said to him if I can
walk, I'm coming to find you.
And uh, yeah, so we, we caughtthem out lying like multiple
times to my wife because shesaid they're phoning me every
day to say I must make planswith the mortuary and stuff like
(29:58):
what's happening, and shecouldn't me.
So she didn't know how bad Iwas or how I was improving or
whatever.
So it was difficult for her aswell.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
So she couldn't like drop off, like I remember going
and getting some of my dad'sbelongings, or like taking him
something and they would comeget it and take it in yeah, so
we did some of that.
So you got your phone.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
Yeah.
So I got my phone about twoweeks in and also I had to not
bribe a nurse, but I had twonurses that were kind of helping
me and they'd come and tell mesecrets.
Like they're coming in.
The doctor's coming today.
He's going to try to do this.
Don't do that.
You know, don't do this, don'tdo that do you remember?
like, what like yeah, well, theone thing was actually going to
(30:39):
the toilet so that they wouldhave a a little bucket there for
you to go.
So you get out of bed which Idon't know how, because you
can't stand, and you're supposedto go to the toilet.
But she's telling me thatpeople are dying on the toilet.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
So they use the toilet and they're actually
having heart attacks becauseyour body can't take it.
So she was saying make surethat don't do that.
So let a nurse come there witha bedpan and help you, don't get
out of the bed and don't dothat.
Her father was actually hecticwith COVID and he was an old man
, he was like 70 something andshe took him home and she was
(31:16):
nursing him at home because theywere treating him so bad.
So she was helping me and Iwish I could remember her name.
And then there was another guyas well, maybe she'll hear this
podcast.
Yeah, let's hope so, because I'dlove them to reach out to me,
because I really want to meetthem.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Let's give thanks to the nurses that are also
conspiracy theorists.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Exactly exactly.
And there was another guy aswell and I said to him when I
get out of here, I want to playgolf with you or whatever, and
he's actually from Corona.
He also helped me big time.
Even when he wasn't on my shift.
He'd come in and see and makesure that you know I was doing
the right things.
And he also said things likeyour heart rate's going to go up
and they're not going to tellyou how to drop it, they're just
(31:56):
going to come in and try andEKG and stuff.
And he taught me how to breatheto get the heart rate down and
the oxygen up and how to calmdown because your body, you
start to panic, especially inthat.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Yeah, it's stressful.
The hospital, it's a provenfact.
It's a stressful environment.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
Yeah, it was very stressful from the minute I got
there.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
But number one removing your loved ones from
you.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
And, like you already said, your wife is the one that
calms you and has that ability.
Well, that was the hardestthing, I think not having
anybody there.
Yeah, yeah, so that's that'sone of those things too.
It's not even, you know, sostressful for the family.
On the outside, but you on theinside trying to advocate for
yourself.
So you were there.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
What six weeks yeah, just under six weeks.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
And and then.
And then what about like eating?
Or you know, were there whatsix weeks?
Yeah, just under six weeks.
And then what about like eating?
Speaker 3 (32:50):
or, you know, were there any issues with, like,
getting even food?
Yeah, well, that's.
The other thing is I wassmuggling Ensure.
Some of the nurses weresmuggling Ensure to me because
they wouldn't feed me.
They'd give me a piece of toastwith some jam on it in the
morning for breakfast and I waslike I've got to eat more,
you've got to eat, right.
Because, I know that frombodybuilding and stuff, the more
you eat, the better you get.
And they wouldn't feed me.
(33:14):
And then they'd come there witha soup or whatever in the
evening and it would be likespicy as hell, and I'd be like I
can't eat this, I can't eatspice.
And they're like well, that'swhat you got.
And, as I said, I made friendswith these two nurses and she
would go around and stealpeople's Ensure for me, because
they would still put Ensure onthe people's tables even though
(33:35):
they were in the ventilator, andso I was drinking Ensure 24-7,
like as much as I could.
And then also, eventually,whatever they put in front of me
, I ate, even though, like Icouldn't stomach it or whatever,
I'd eat as much as possiblebecause that's a survival thing,
right, and I was.
Yeah, I was just telling themto bring whatever and they were
(33:56):
using the excuse because I'm atype 2 diabetic.
They're like no, we can't giveyou any food.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
But instead they were giving you toast with jam.
Toast with jam, yeah, just theopposite.
I was like, can I?
Speaker 3 (34:05):
have an egg?
Or can I have something else?
Can I have another piece?
And they were like no, can'tgive you any more, because
you're sugar.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
And I was like my sugar is perfect, give me
protein.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Yeah, I'll take a piece of chicken is by eating
yeah, food is medicine yeah youtalk about that a lot, yeah, of
good food which you think in thehospital they give you better
food than what you get yeah, myand my sugar was perfect.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
I'll tell you that.
Yeah, um, but um, that's thefirst time in my life I've
actually eaten to survive.
You know, you see those, those,those movies and stuff where
the guys like eating bugs andthings like that sounds like a
concentration camp.
Yeah, I was kind of at thatpoint Like if there was bugs I
would eat bugs.
The instinct kicked in.
I just needed to eat, you know.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
So you went in.
At what did you say?
300 pounds.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Yeah, I was.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
And you were there for just under six weeks.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
Yeah, and I lost almost 80 pounds while I was in
there.
That yeah, and I lost almost 80pounds while I was in there.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
That's insane.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
Yeah, yeah.
When my wife saw me, when Ileft the hospital, she started
crying.
That's the first time she hadseen me.
Wow yeah, she said I lookedlike a cancer patient.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
So yeah, so how did you get yourself out of there?
Speaker 3 (35:24):
Were you able to get your oxygen sats stable.
I'll tell you what I cheated alot.
You start thinking about thingsand I had to get out of the
hospital, the only way I wasgoing to survive.
That was to get out of there.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
You have a right to discharge yourself, though so
were you concerned they weren'tallowing me to do that.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
I said, okay, I'm done, I want to go home.
They were like no, you can't goanywhere.
Your oxygen has to be full.
You have to be on four litersof oxygen before you can leave.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
What are they going to do?
Arrest you, I mean?
What are they going to do ifyou try to leave?
Speaker 3 (35:54):
I don't know, from the minute I said I wanted to
leave, that I actually gottreated worse.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Yeah, that happened with my dad as well, because I
don't need to touch him again,Don't give him a single pill,
Don't touch him.
I am coming to get him.
And then they tried to convincehim.
My dad wasn't quite with it,but he called me and said
they're asking me why I want toleave and am I sure that I want
to leave because I'm sick.
(36:20):
And I said, dad, you have aright to leave.
You don't have to stay there.
You have a right to leave intoyour own life and your own
health.
And I said just tell them don'ttouch you.
And that's exactly what he did.
They didn't touch him.
They said come get him, we'redone, we're not touching him.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
I said good, Don't lay a lay a hand on him well,
the thing with me is I thinkthey use the covid, the whole
covid security thing, as likeyou can't leave, you've got
covid.
But I was surely at that stageI was like over covid right six
weeks, it's 10 days, right.
And then they came and said, no, you got the other covid you
(36:58):
got long, covid.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Yeah, you got this, but were you testing positive
for?
Speaker 3 (37:01):
it they.
They tested me when they movedme downstairs when I was kind of
getting better to go home,which was also a struggle they
wouldn't actually send me thereAgain.
The nurse came to me and saidokay, they're ready to move you.
They're talking about movingyou, but what they're going to
(37:22):
do is they want to put you in ahome, a hospice or whatever, not
like a long-term health homeand I was like I don't need that
, I can go home, my wife canlook after me.
And she said, yes, that'sexactly what they're going to
tell you.
They're going to come withpamphlets and they're going to
try to push you in the homebecause that's where they're
making money, and as night asday.
They came in five minutes laterand the doctor said another
doctor I'd never met in my lifebefore.
(37:43):
He said I've been reviewingyour case and I think you need
to go into this home.
I was like, don't, even, don't,even.
I don't even want to hear aboutit.
I know exactly what you'regoing to say take your pamphlet
and you can leave.
He's like, yeah, but I'mtelling you you have to go.
Yeah, I said my wife's fetchingme, I'm done.
Um.
So again, she was spot on withthat.
And then they delayed it forthree days, sending me
(38:07):
downstairs.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
My oxygen was at full but they didn't take another
COVID test which anyway, some ofthat was all sketchy too, but
there were false positives andfalse negatives because I was
negative.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
That's why they decided to move me downstairs,
so they did test you and youwere negative they tested me I
was negative and they delayed itfor three days.
I kept saying my oxygen is fine,I'm ready to move me downstairs
.
So they did test you and youwere negative.
They tested me I was negativeand they delayed it for three
days.
I kept saying my oxygen's fine,I'm ready to move, or whatever.
And they're like no waiting fora bed, there's no space
downstairs, you might have tostill go on the ventilator.
(38:38):
And I was like but what are youtalking about?
Like I need to get out of here.
And from that point it actuallygot worse.
When they finally did take medownstairs, they put me in a
room by myself.
I never saw a nurse the wholeday, like they'd come in at
night and put a tray of fooddown and leave.
I never saw anybody.
And at one stage my oxygenactually got caught on the bed
(39:01):
because I lifted the bed up andit cut the oxygen and I was
calling the nurse for about 20minutes.
My oxygen was got caught on thebed because I lifted the bed up
and it cut the oxygen and I wascalling the nurse for about 20
minutes.
My oxygen was dropping anddropping and dropping because
obviously I wasn't getting anyoxygen and he walked in.
He said why are you trying todo that?
I said I got hooked on the bed.
Can you just help me?
He said are you trying to dothat to make me look bad?
Yes, I'm trying to kill myselfto make you look bad, like
(39:22):
anyone's going to care, you know.
So that was a type of you knowthing.
But coming back to how Iactually got out of there, they
make you do a test, which I alsothink is bullshit.
You have to walk to the doorwith a walker.
Your oxygen has to stay at acertain point I can't remember
(39:45):
what it was, but it has to stayat a certain point.
While you're walking to thedoor and back and the door's
probably 10 meters away You'vegot to walk with your and I
hadn't walked at all In fiveweeks or so.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
I haven't walked at all in five weeks.
Speaker 3 (39:59):
I mean I couldn't feel my legs from lying in the
bed.
And the first time they came inand she had such an attitude,
she's like, right, stand up.
And she says, can you dojumping jacks?
I'm like, are you crazy?
I can't do jumping jacks.
She goes, oh no, then you can'tget released.
And she threw the book down andshe left and that was the guy
(40:20):
was quite nice.
He came in and said okay, andthat was after fighting with the
physio, because I had a physio.
An old lady kept coming inthere.
She was like no, don't, youshould go home.
I'm like, listen, I actuallystarted crying.
I was like, please, I just wantto go home.
I don't care if I die at home,I just want to go home Because
the promise I had made to myselfis I would be at home for
(40:41):
Christmas, and it was like threedays before Christmas that I
actually got out of there.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
Yeah, and they were like there's no way You're going
to be out for months.
That was what I kept hearing.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
You're going to be out for months, three months,
four months at least if you makeit, they're going to make all
kinds of money, exactly.
Speaker 3 (40:56):
Exactly, and eventually I got the guy to come
and do the test.
I was like I'm ready for thistest and I prepared mentally and
whatever.
And instead of just walking tothe door, I take one step,
breathe, make sure my oxygen wasgood, and he's like, no, you
can't do it, you've got to keepwalking.
I was like I'm fine, then Itake another step.
(41:17):
My oxygen was settled, I do it.
And eventually I mean it tookme like half an hour to get to
the door and back, but that'swhy I cheated it.
And he looked at me and he saidyou're not supposed to do this.
I said, look, bud, I just wantto go home.
It's Christmas, we don't evenhave a Christmas trip.
I've just got to get home, youknow.
And he was like okay, I'll putit through.
(41:41):
And I still waited another twodays to go.
They're like yeah, your wife'sgot to make sure you've got a
bedpan there and you've got thisthere and oxygen.
And I'm like they just try tokeep me there as long as
possible.
Eventually, when I left, Iplayed that song.
I think it's Elton John.
I'm Still Standing on my phoneand all the nurses just gave me
(42:02):
a look and I was like see youlater.
You know they weren't happy tosee me go, but yeah, that's kind
of how I got out of thereeventually.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
The ventilator death sentence didn't get you no.
Speaker 3 (42:13):
And, like I say, I mean there were days when I
thought am I doing the rightthing, you know, by not getting
on the ventilator, because theway I was treated and you know
if somebody's telling you you'regoing to die if you don't go on
the ventilator every single day, you start thinking to yourself
.
You know maybe they're right,because you're supposed to put
your trust in doctors right andto go through something like
(42:36):
that.
I'll never trust a doctor again, never.
Yeah, they're going to have toearn the trust.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
Yeah, completely different yeah, like your story
is definitely very different,but some things, like you know,
not having surgery, but this isalso pre-covid yeah, you're
pre-covid, but but still, like,there are still things that like
, did you feel like, oh, I haveto advocate for myself or figure
this out, or you were in totaltrust of your journey?
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, at that point I didn't know any
different.
You're going to cut it out.
Yeah, let's cut it out.
That's what else we're going todo, you know.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
Yeah, yeah, but would you, you know?
So, thinking about your ownexperience and you know we, we
talk to people who have health.
You know illnesses, things andadvocating for yourself I mean
yours is like an extremeadvocating for yourself yeah, so
(43:38):
many things that happened thatled to positive outcomes that I
say like great greece, number 5,10, 20, whatever.
So you clearly like yourconspiracy.
You thank your neighbor forbeing a conspiracy theorist well
, and also the timing.
Speaker 3 (43:54):
Uh yeah, you were diagnosed almost two years into
it right year, and a half and atthat point people had already
become leery of the governmentyeah, yeah, I think if it
happened right in the beginning,I probably would have been dead
.
You know, yeah, you wouldn'thave had any other news or
insight as to what to advocatefor, and yeah, I'll tell you one
(44:15):
thing, though what kept mealive is I never thought for one
day I was dying that's aninteresting point because that's
like what Matt said in hisfirst.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
You know, the first podcast that we had was he's
like what are you giving me awill for?
Speaker 3 (44:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
I'm not dead.
I'm not dying.
Speaker 3 (44:31):
And it's the weirdest thing, because people are
telling you you're dying andyou're like, no, I'm not dying,
and it's like, no, I haven'tdone all the things.
What are you talking about?
And I think it's different fromme.
Like you know, car accident andyou whatever you know.
But yeah, there wasn't onesingle day when somebody said to
me you're dying or you're introuble when I thought to myself
(44:54):
, oh yeah, maybe I am.
It wasn't one single moment andI think that's what got me
through.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
Yeah, yeah, and then to keep basically telling them
that they're crazy.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
I'm not sick, I can go home, I can get better.
Speaker 3 (45:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
And I think that that is like the mind is so powerful
.
Yeah, and crafting survival.
I think it comes down to that,that also mental fortitude of
saying, nope, I'm going to getmyself through, not today,
junior.
Speaker 3 (45:26):
Yeah, and I am quite a very mentally positive person.
I'm the type of guy whensomebody says you can't do
something, I'll go out of my wayto do it, just to prove
somebody wrong, which isprobably not always the best.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
That's why we like each other.
Yeah, I'm like bullshit.
Speaker 3 (45:43):
Yeah, not always the best.
That's why we like each other.
Yeah, I'm like bullshit, yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
You know, hold my beer, yeah, hold my beer I'm
going in.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
That's a bad idea.
When do we start?
Yeah, I've always been that guy, you know, and I think that's
kind of the whole South Africanmentality as well.
You know, we talk about thewhole growing up and things, but
we had to fend for ourselves,you know.
We were on the streets and theway I was brought up.
(46:09):
Yeah, you want something, yougo out and get it you know so
people going through difficulttimes.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
what would be like that number one thing that you
would tell somebody?
Speaker 3 (46:24):
Stay positive, that's .
I think that's my number onetakeaway from this.
And, yeah, and also feel yourbody.
You know you can feel yourinstincts are actually very good
when it comes to survival, andthat's something I realized as
well.
Like, when you're in thatsituation, people go, oh, no, no
, no, the doctor's right, orthis one's right, I can't be.
(46:45):
You know, I know I feel tired,but I don't need to sleep.
Like, just listen to yourself.
There's that voice in your headfor a reason.
And I think, yeah, that wouldbe a takeaway.
Speaker 1 (46:56):
Yeah Well, awesome Thanks for sharing your story.
I think we could probably talkabout all that other stuff for
another podcast and all thecrazy things during apartheid
and growing up and maybe one daywe'll get to revisit that and
surviving that situation.
But thanks for sharing yourstory with us and being a part
of this and thanks for helpingus produce our podcast.
Speaker 3 (47:18):
Cool, thanks for having me on and hopefully I'll
share some insight that'svaluable yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
Crazy story, I think the underlying theme is stay
positive and listen to yourinner voice.
Speaker 3 (47:29):
Yeah, yeah, the inner voice is powerful, it's
powerful.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
But how do you not second guess it?
Speaker 3 (47:36):
I think that's the biggest problem is people second
guess it too much.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
Believing that you're right, that you know what you
know.
Speaker 3 (47:41):
It's the same as you know.
I get it.
Too much Believing that you'reright that you know what you
know.
It's the same as you know.
I get it.
Quite often you look at a pieceof food and you go that doesn't
look right, don't eat it.
You know, like that simple.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
Matt will still eat it, even if it's got mold on it.
He'll just say just brush itoff, eat it.
Just say just brush it off, Eatit.
I'm like that's disgusting.
Speaker 2 (48:01):
Yeah, Well you're not yeah Right, and that's my inner
voice telling me.
Speaker 3 (48:07):
yeah, I know, it's just a little mold.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
It's only been sitting out for two days.
Speaker 3 (48:10):
It's not that bad yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
You know, remember, no matter the challenge, there
are extraordinary people outthere overcoming the
unimaginable.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
Their journeys remind us that grit and hope are
powerful.
Join us next time as wecontinue to explore the lives of
those who face life's biggestchallenges head on.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
Until then, stay strong, stay hopeful and keep
crafting your own survival.
Speaker 1 (48:33):
Tune in weekly and follow us on Instagram TikTok
and Facebook.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
This is Crafting Survival.
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