June 16, 2025 • 29 mins
The hidden force behind professional sports fields' impeccable playability isn't just meticulous grounds keeping—it's revolutionary drainage technology. This fascinating conversation with Hydraway specialists reveals how flat-panel drainage systems are transforming everything from Major League Baseball diamonds to golf courses and residential yards.
Hydraway vs other waterproofing and drainage products video: https://youtu.be/lIz4wQXsW54?feature=shared
When torrential rain threatened the iconic Field of Dreams MLB game, Hydraway's drainage system proved so effective that groundskeepers were mowing the outfield the very next morning. This remarkable performance stems from a fundamental design advantage: traditional perforated pipes offer only 6% open area for water intake, while Hydraway provides an astonishing 80% void space, dramatically accelerating water removal.
Chuck, a 30-year veteran golf course architect, explains how this technology addresses persistent challenges for golf course superintendents. Beyond superior drainage performance, Hydraway installations require significantly less disruption to carefully maintained turf. Rather than wide trenches filled with problematic pea gravel, Hydraway can be installed in narrow 4-6 inch trenches and backfilled with coarse sand—preserving landscape aesthetics while preventing the "striping" effect common with traditional drainage systems.
The versatility of this American-made product is particularly impressive. Available in both 6-inch and 12-inch widths for various applications, Hydroway can be installed either vertically to intercept surface water or horizontally beneath features like golf course bunkers. This flexibility has led to adoption by prestigious clients including Toronto Blue Jays, University of Missouri, Philadelphia MLS, and numerous NFL training facilities.
What makes this conversation particularly valuable for homeowners is understanding that the same technology trusted by multimillion-dollar sports venues offers an affordable solution for residential drainage problems. The principle remains consistent across applications: efficient water management begins with removing water quickly before it can cause damage.
Ready to explore how professional-grade drainage solutions might solve your property's wet spots? Connect with the experts at DIY.CrawlSpaceNinja.com to learn more about bringing this field-proven technology to your home or business project.
Check out Michael's book, "Crawl Space Repair Myths-Busted" now available on Amazon!
Schedule a consultation: https://buymeacoffee.com/csninja/extras
Need help: https://crawlspaceninja.com or https://diy.crawlspaceninja.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Michael Church (00:00):
Hey everybody, michael Church here with Crawl
Space Ninja, and welcome toanother episode of the Ninja
Podcast.
Today I'm going to be joined byJoe, bill and Chuck of Hydraway
, an innovative company that'schanging the game when it comes
to drainage solutions.
We've got a jam-packed episodeahead where we'll be diving into
the.
Hydraway is used in everythingfrom residential yards to
(00:22):
basements and crawl spaces, allthe way to sports fields and
even the iconic Field of Dreams.
We'll also be talking about howHydroway doesn't hold water it
moves it, and how that makes ahuge difference compared to
traditional systems.
Plus, it works withoutaggregate, which saves time,
money and a whole lot ofback-breaking labor.
(00:45):
And hey, if you're like me andyour golf skills are
questionable at best, having adry golf course might finally
give us weekend hackers afighting chance.
Stick around as we explore howthis affordable and
easy-to-install system ishelping prevent striping on
lawns, keeping sports fields intop shape and protecting homes
(01:07):
across the country.
Let's get started.
So tell me a little bit aboutwhat you do exactly.
Chuck (01:16):
I work for Hydraway and I am implementing the product
into the golf line.
We are exploring options on howto get more golf courses to use
Hydraway as a supplementaldrainage system to drainage
systems they already have.
So who I'm trying to work withthe most is the golf course
superintendents, because theymanage the maintenance of the
golf course.
So drainage is a big part ofany golf course.
(01:39):
That's like my background is.
I was a golf course architectfor 30 years and and I also was
a superintendent and I alsobuilt golf courses and in that
experience I have learned thatdrainage is one of the most
important aspects to everyaspect of golf, from design to
construction to managing andmaintenance.
So Hydroway is a great productbecause it's a supplemental
(02:02):
product to the drainage that'salready in the ground from the
initial construction.
But it dries up areas thatconstantly remain trouble spots.
Michael Church (02:11):
Well, I'm not much of a golfer but I have
played on some really nice evenprivate courses where they seem
to have some kind of low spotwhere somebody like me who can't
hit a golf ball and winds uptearing up more of the soil than
hits the golf ball, couldreally use a dry ground to hit
off of.
Chuck (02:32):
Yeah, and what Hydroway does?
Is it really, once installed,promotes a more consistent
playing surface.
So the areas that you knowfairway and all that, it's more
consistent from a playabilitystandpoint.
So it really dries up some ofthese wet areas where water just
naturally tends to want tostand.
Michael Church (02:57):
I wanted this to be more about the relationship
between Hydraway and how it'sused in sports fields as well.
As you know, if these folks whomanage these multi-million
dollar sports fields are usingHydraway, then, you know, maybe
a homeowner should considertaking a look at it for their
foundation.
So that's kind of what I wantedto show with this video.
And there's Joe, so let's lethim in.
Hey, joe.
Joe (03:14):
Good morning, good afternoon, wherever you're at
it's afternoon for me.
Michael Church (03:17):
I'm East, it's afternoon, are you Central?
Chuck (03:21):
Yeah, he's Central yeah.
Michael Church (03:22):
You guys in Caseyville yes sir, where are
you at?
Chuck (03:24):
I'm actually in Branson Missouri.
I work remote.
Is that central?
I assume Branson Missouri.
Yes, yeah, yeah.
Michael Church (03:29):
Okay, all right, very good, so when we get done
you guys can take a break andgrab some lunch then, right?
So that's the good news.
Sounds like a plan, are you?
I'm good?
Good to see you, man, see you.
I was getting to know chuck alittle bit and telling him about
my horrible golf shots andmuddy golf courses.
I mean, I'm bad enough wheneverit's dry so I could see how
(03:52):
hydro way could help somebodylike me who can't actually play
golf very well, do better.
I remember doing this one shotand I I think there was more mud
on the club than the club hit.
You know, it was like it, likewhere did that come from?
It was a divot.
It was so big I couldn't evenfix it, I just like snuck away.
Bill (04:13):
You just kind of snuck off the course.
Michael Church (04:15):
Yeah, I was like I don't know if anybody saw me
do that, I just kind of left.
So I think that was like mylast.
I had this time in my lifewhere I wanted to learn how to
play golf, because it seems likeeverybody in the business world
plays golf Right and I was likeyou know, maybe I need to learn
and I got so mad.
I was just like you know, Idon't need this kind of
(04:35):
frustration in my life.
I just I just quit.
I.
I.
I had like a really nice set ofclubs.
I bought like expensive set ofclubs, lost a ton of money when
I sold them on Facebookmarketplace and I was done and
I've been happier ever since.
Bill (04:50):
So those of you that have learned how to play golf.
Michael Church (04:53):
I have a lot of respect for you.
I really do.
So anyway it's not something Ican do, all right, so let's get
into it and we'll just like posesome questions and some things
that I've been curious aboutwith Hydroway.
Over the years, I've heard alot of rumors, and you all are
the ones to confirm these rumors, right?
So the first rumor I heard isthat Hydroway was used in the
(05:16):
Field of Dreams field, which wasthe movie that Kevin Costner
made.
Is that correct that Hydrowaywas used in that field?
Joe (05:22):
Yeah, so Hydroway was the only flat panel drain specified
and approved by major leaguebaseball for that field.
So it is the most televisedmajor league baseball game to
this day.
And in that field the majorleague baseball wanted to put
hydroway in a horizontalapplication on a natural field
because it's a high performancesand based field.
So they dug one inch trenches,laid Hydraway and then put the
(05:45):
root zone, sand mix and rootzone on top of it to establish
that root zone mix.
That was a mixture that theydid and in doing so the day
before the game they had asubstantial amount of rain three
to four inches of rain thenight before and they were
cutting the grass the nextmorning and in doing so, in
center field is the pump stationfor the drainage, and hydroway
removed so much water theyactually had to put in a second
(06:08):
pump station behind the firstbase dugout.
So it's pretty uniqueapplication.
It was one of the first thatthey did in the high performance
sand base fields where theyactually it's this.
It's just a shallow trenchwhere hydroway lays in and your
compression strength allows forthe mowing and the turf and it
establishes about a six inchroot zone.
Because major league baseball,when I work for the cardinals.
(06:29):
The outfield grass is basicallya little bit taller than a
putting green.
So the foot traffic and thecutting and it's.
It's cut anywhere from two tothree times a day and then it's
rolled as well as you know yourinfield grass is a little bit
shorter than your outfield grass, but yeah, it's cut two to
three times a day and rolledwell, and speaking of putting
(06:49):
greens, chuck, you were.
Michael Church (06:51):
You and I were talking about how you know
hydroways used in golf courseapplication.
Tell us why that's important toget this product out to other
golf courses, sure.
Chuck (06:59):
So in golf courses.
There there's subsurfacedrainage which goes in below a
lot of the different features.
So it goes in below greens andit goes into bunkers and that's
a subsurface where it's trenchedin below the engineered part of
the green right.
So the green is basically anengineered feature.
It has a root zone that perksthe water through to the
(07:20):
drainage system.
So Hydroway is a great fit andwe're still exploring it in the
use of putting greens and we'regetting more traction in that
direction.
But what I am trying to promoteHydroway in the golf industry
more is for French drainage,where it dries up areas that
typically stay wet and it's adifferent application.
(07:41):
So it's a vertical applicationof the pipe instead of a
horizontal application.
And the advantages of thatgoing in, especially on existing
courses, is there is lessdisturbance of the actual course
on install because you don'thave to dig as wide of a trench
to put it in because the productis only an inch wide.
So you can dig a four to sixinch trench instead of a backhoe
(08:05):
bucket width.
And the other advantage is thatyou can backfill with a coarse
sand and you don't have tobackfill necessarily with a pea
gravel.
With a pea gravel application,then that just creates more
steps for the owner.
They have to import pea gravel,they have to store pea gravel,
they have to move pea gravel tothe course.
There's contamination becausepea gravel gets into the turf
(08:27):
and then the mowers can't mowcorrectly or it'll damage the
reels on a mower.
So there's a lot ofdisadvantages to using pea
gravel and you want to try andavoid it if you can, and Hydro-A
allows you to do that becauseyou can use a coarse sand and if
you spill coarse sand on thecourse it really doesn't matter
because it blends into the soil.
That's the advantage of theHydro-A product.
Michael Church (08:47):
And I would guess using the coarse sand
would help to anchor theHydroway into the ground.
Is that correct?
As well as give it somethingfor the grass or whatever you're
going to put on top to grow?
Chuck (08:58):
Yeah, so it helps create that seed bed and that basically
the root zone, so that when youreestablish the turf over the
top it can grab into something alittle bit easier and it allows
the water to filter throughquicker to get into the pipe.
But the pipe, as we know, isdesigned for maximum capacity.
You get about 80% flow rateinto the pipe just because of
the way it's designed, comparedto a normal four-inch drain tile
(09:21):
that's perforated where youknow the water has to kind of go
along the pipe and then seepinto the pipe through the
perforations, hydraway hits thepipe immediately in because
there's that much more voidspace.
Michael Church (09:32):
Yeah, let's talk about that just for a second.
I've read where, say, forexample, some of these slit
pipes, they only have about a 6%opening.
So let's speak to a 6% opening,moving water versus an 80%
opening.
Joe, like you were talkingabout how the pumps couldn't
even keep up.
Now that may sound like, ohwell, I don't want to install
that because now I got to havepumps.
But no, you're moving water.
That's what you want, right.
(09:53):
So could you speak on that forme?
Joe (09:54):
Yeah, so it's just the visual conception Round pipe
versus a flat panel, four inchdiameter versus an inch width.
Hydroway is never going to holdwater.
It's going to remove water andwhen you have a slit slot hole
theory, as you do in pipes, thewater has to make its way down
through the 8-inch, 10-inchtrench and then get into those
slit slot holes and there's onlyabout a 5% open area.
(10:17):
So for that water to get inthere and then move out.
Visually you know it's hard tosee, but once you've done the
testing and you've looked andresearched it, those slit slot
holes can get clogged withsediment and everything else, or
Hydroway doesn't.
Hydroway is a cavity system.
It's going to allow the waterto drain through all sides so it
doesn't have to go around thepipe and seep in.
It's going to go through ourpipe to a point to where it
(10:38):
can't drain anymore and when itdoes and it starts to come back
up, it hits our system andimmediately, on all sides, exits
to your collector system, wherea round pipe has.
It builds up and it gets the,the pressure I say pressure, the
water pressure that gets intothe hole and then moves it out.
It just has a bigger area tohold water.
I don't want to hold water, Iwant to move water.
What you get most of yourproblems on a natural turf field
(11:01):
is from standing water, andthat standing water is because
it doesn't percolate through thepipe or hydro way.
We have an 18 to 28 inch perhour per square foot perk rate
and that's why we allow for theclean core sand in the USGA
standards at 0.2 millimeter to0.5 millimeter, which is
basically a pea gravel.
It allows that water to gothrough the system and then our
(11:21):
system captures that water at apoint to where it can't drain
anymore and moves it out.
Michael Church (11:25):
Well, and that's a good point, I've done a lot
of videos over the years and youall did a video, and I've done
a video where I showed aperforated pipe compared to the
Hydraway and how much water itmoves.
So if any of you are watchingthis video, I'll put a link to
one of those down below.
But, chuck, what Joe said andwhat you hit on a minute ago it
just brought up to my mind about.
You know, not only are youhaving to use a bucket size
(11:47):
width to install these perfpipes size width to install
these perf pipes, but when youtalk about a four inch
perforated pipe, you're probablytalking about another six
inches of aggregate and filtersocket, everything else around
there, not to mention the factthat somebody is going to have
to drive that backhoe acrossthat lawn and the tracks are
probably going to destroy it.
And I can see HydroA beinginstalled with maybe a ditch
(12:07):
witch or something small likethat.
Is that correct?
That's exactly right.
Chuck (12:11):
And from a golf course perspective you know they spend
so much time maintaining andperfecting that turf that the
less damage they can do, thebetter off.
They are.
Right, you don't want to haveto go back in and repair.
The other advantage of Hydrawayis just the quickness of the
install.
So you have less downtime.
Right, because you're nothaving to repair as much and
(12:33):
you're not having to, you know,grow in as much turf because
you're not disturbing as much.
You know the ideal installwould be you take out a sod
cutter, you cut a couple rows ofsod out.
Take your ditch witch out, youcut your trench.
If the material is suitable,then you just backfill with that
exact same material.
So you're cutting out a lot ofsteps on the install process.
That makes the whole processquicker because you're not
(12:55):
having import material, you'renot having an export material,
you're not having to, you know,tear up a 20-foot width area
just for equipment and all thataspect.
So you're really minimizingyour footprint.
Michael Church (13:08):
And some of you watching this video might be
thinking well, why is MichaelChurch of Crawl Space Ninja
talking about golf courses andbaseball fields?
Well, you know our customers.
Some of their yards look likegolf courses and baseball fields
.
They take care of them so wellthat they don't want to.
If they have a drainage problem, they don't want to get in
there with a backhoe and destroytheir lawn.
So this could even be a lawnapplication, and if one of you
(13:31):
want to speak to that as well,that'd be great.
As far as using it for apersonal residence and how well
it can do and where, you wouldinstall it so in a French drain
application in a residentiallandscape.
Joe (13:42):
You're going to address it in the low-lying or the standing
water areas and with Hydrawayyou can trench it in just a
four-inch trench, you know,seven, eight inches deep and you
can reuse the spoils.
We don't need the aggregate ina French drain application to
install Hydroway.
Then you can put your sod rackback over the top of it.
There's not going to be anydisruption to your yard or to
(14:03):
your business or whatever thecase may be.
But one of the things that youbrought up earlier was with
aggregate.
And here's a cool, cool thing.
I did some research a whileback on aggregate in the hydro
way world.
In the drainage world they usenumber 57, which is a
three-quarter inch clean stone,and from our home right here in
caseyville, nine hours away inin louisiana, a yard of number
(14:23):
57 stone in louisiana is 110 ayard and illinois is 10 a yard
so if you do the math, you'regoing to use round pipe versus
hydro, a lot of rock versus norock.
That's in the case of syntheticfields and anything, because
people are trying to say thatnumber 57, stone is a drainage
system.
But yeah, it drains water.
So what are you going to doafter a couple of years, when
(14:45):
all those fines make their waydown and now your void area is
diminished?
Where does the water go?
It's going to go up, right,it's going to push everything up
to the top.
So it's just educating peoplejust on the importance of
Hydraway, how simple it is andhow powerful it is when it
removes water.
It's an easy install.
Two guys can roll out 150 footroll in 15 seconds.
Michael Church (15:01):
Wow, and there's quite a bit of weight to a
bucket of three quarter inchstone.
And that was one of the thingsthat really attracted me about
Hydraway in the crawl spaceapplication is, you know, you're
looking at anywhere between twoto four feet of space and
traditional pipe installrequired us to put that three
quarter inch stone around thatpipe and trying to maneuver in
(15:23):
and out of a crawl space withall that stone and still not
even being as effective.
After all that labor, it'sbasically from a work comp
perspective.
It's probably saved us becauseyou could throw out a shoulder,
you could hurt your back orwhatever trying to crawl in and
out when, like you said,hydraway, you just roll the
stuff out.
We use a trencher, an electrictrencher, inside the crawl space
(15:47):
to create kind of like anelectric handheld ditch which
and that way it saves us laborand time, and then we just put
the Hydraway in there and it's agreat install from that
perspective.
So I appreciate you bringingthat up too.
Hey there, michael Church,founder of Crawl Space Ninja, do
you have a crawl space or abasement?
Or perhaps your home issuffering from some type of
(16:09):
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I want to encourage you tocheck out my book Crawl Space
Repair Myths Busted, availableon Amazon.
This is a great book for anyhomeowner that is concerned
about indoor air quality, mold,moisture, whether you're on a
crawl space or a basement or aslab built house.
This is a great book, greatinformation.
I encourage you to check it outAgain.
(16:30):
The name of the book is CrawlSpace Repair Myths Busted, now
available on Amazon.
Joe (16:36):
So this is a conversation that we had yesterday and, if
you think about it, the you knowperf pipe, four inch round pipe
, has been around for many, manydecades.
Right, but how many times havea natural turf installer or
synthetic turf installer, alandscaper, a golf course?
They're always trying toreinvent the wheel because
they're trying to find the waythat it's going to work the best
.
Well, guess what?
(16:56):
They still have yet to find thebest way.
Hydroway, simple.
It's a four inch trench.
In a natural field, it's 12 to14 inches deep.
In a landscape application, youknow, six to nine inches deep.
Bill (17:06):
It's simple it's never going to change, don't have to
reinvent the wheel.
Joe (17:09):
We don't have to come up with different ideas on how to
move water.
That's just some things thatpeople, it's just an insight
that people can think about andit just goes along with how
simple and easy of aninstallation it is.
Chuck (17:19):
Yeah, and I'm going to add on to that just a hair.
In a golf course application, alot of the drainage issues come
from where they have put roundpipe in with gravel around it.
The water gets to the graveland then it runs along the side
of the pipe until it can seep in.
Right, what ends up happeningis 50, 60 feet down the line
that water hits a resistance andit pops up, especially in a
(17:40):
rain event, especially as therain is happening and that's
where the damage comes from instorms is and you wash out drain
lines.
It's because it's getting somuch water so quickly that it's
not absorbing into the pipe asefficiently as it should.
Right, with hydro way, youdon't have that issue, and that
that's the advantage of the 80percent void that allows that
(18:00):
much more water in.
So you're taking care of thatinitial rainfall event and then
any residuals are automaticallygoing in as well.
Michael Church (18:15):
Very good.
Well, I just want to clarifytwo terms that we use a lot that
maybe someone listening may notknow.
Aggregate Joe's alreadyexplained what that is.
It's basically just rock or peagravel or even, in some cases,
styrofoam that could be usedaround the pipe to give the pipe
more surface area and thenspoils.
That's something.
When I first heard I was likewhat is spoils right?
So basically, spoils is thedirt that you excavated.
So instead of Mr Jones havingto worry about what am I going
(18:38):
to do with this big mound ofdirt, you just put that dirt
back in over the hydroway.
Is that right, joe?
Is that what you're saying?
Joe (18:43):
Correct.
You fill it up around the sides, put it back over the top and
then you can reuse the cut sodthat you've already done.
And another cool feature ofHydro is because of the way it's
installed, you don't have toworry about striping, and people
are going to say well, what isstriping?
So when you use a round pipe,the trench is eight to 10 inches
wide and, however deep they putit, you have the possibility of
(19:04):
striping.
And what that does is when youlay that sod back over to the
top of it.
So you've got your green grassand you're going to see a yellow
line.
That yellow line is because itdoesn't establish a healthy root
zone, because it's such a bigarea and you have all of that
aggregate around it to maintainthe green grass.
I'm not saying it's impossible,but you're going to have
striping.
So we see it a lot in naturalturf fields.
When they do a reno, they'll doa drone footage of it and
(19:26):
you'll see the the yellowstripes and that's where they've
laid the pipe which canactually happen in golf courses,
too.
Chuck (19:32):
With the backfill in golf courses, after you put the pipe
in, you're going to create anew root zone.
What you need to do is makesure that that has organics in
it as much as you can and isconsistent with everything else
that's around it, and that wayyou avoid that striping that
we've been talking about.
Michael Church (19:46):
Very good, chuck .
I heard Bill talk about I thinkit was Bill or maybe Joe talk
about Hydraway and how unique itis to use around a bunker.
I have spent a lot of times inbunkers in my golfing career so
I'm very familiar with them.
But how is Hydrawayparticularly used and how do you
see it be an advantage around abunker where other installation
(20:08):
or other pipes may not be asgood?
Chuck (20:10):
Well, Hydroway has a couple of different applications
.
In bunkers, you can put itunder the sub base of the bunker
and it's going to carry morewater, which is a great thing,
which takes that you know,contamination factor out of the
equation, because sand getscontaminated not only from the
lip of the bunker around it, butit also gets contaminated from
the bottom up.
If you have water, it's drainedthrough the sand and it's
(20:32):
working its way down to the pipeand the gravel that it's in
starts working its way upthrough the sand, especially
when it's completely like a rainevent or completely saturated.
So with Hydraway, you'reeliminating that water from
standing there and creating thatcontamination from the bottom
Hydroway you're eliminating thatwater from standing there and
creating that contamination fromthe bottom.
On the outside of the bunker youcan actually use it vertically
and kind of mirror the shape ofthe bunker and that takes a lot
(20:56):
of that surface water thatusually would come into the
bunker from the top.
It gets it into the pipe beforeit has a chance to do damage.
Michael Church (21:04):
So there's a couple of different applications
.
Very good, Joe.
I assume Hydroway comes in morethan just the waterproofing
sizes.
Are you using different sizesof Hydroway in different
applications?
Joe (21:14):
We offer a 6-inch and a 12-inch product.
Our 6-inch product is used inresidential crawl spaces and
basements, as you well know.
It's also used in golf coursesand fairways and aprons and
approaches.
It's also used in natural turffields and it's also used in
landscape and park and wrecks.
In the French drain application.
Our 12-inch product is usedmainly in synthetic turf.
(21:35):
It also can be used in aputting drain.
It's used in shotcrete walls,highways, a strip drain.
That's what it was invented for.
The other thing too is with our12-inch product, we've seen it
used in natural turf fields andwhen you do that, just the depth
of it is a little deeper.
It's 18 to 21 inches deep andyou always want to put it above
your irrigation lines.
(21:55):
Any application where you havea natural turf field golf
courses, natural turf fields,whatever it may be you always
want to put it above theirrigation lines and you always
want to allow that.
You know 6 to 8 inches for thathealthy root zone and people
always want to allow that.
You know six to eight inchesfor that healthy root zone and
people are going to ask why doyou put it above the irrigation
line?
If the irrigation line was tobreak, the water is going to go
up.
When it goes up, rises up, it'sgoing to hit the hydroway
system and then move out to thecollector system.
(22:17):
So it's just small littlethings that you can educate
people on why we do the thingsthat we do.
Michael Church (22:23):
And again, just a simple, easy install.
Well, and you threw out a lotof potential customers that I
assume Joe and Chuck and Billyou guys are trying to talk to,
so let's go over those again.
You talked about municipalities.
That would be someone local,city, county, state,
municipalities that are buildingroads and highways, and those
would be a good referral sourceor someone who you'd like to
(22:44):
talk to about that.
Is that correct?
Chuck (22:45):
We want to get to the source of who is specifying
product for projects.
That would be a huge advantageif we could get into the
specifiers' hands.
Specifically, from a golfstandpoint, there's the
superintendent, there's thecontractor, there's the
architect, and those are themain people of focus.
There's also the supplier orthe distributor.
(23:05):
So, we're trying to work withthose folks so that they can be
a distributor for us, so thatwe're in the game as well.
Michael Church (23:11):
Well, and anybody watching.
Reach out to us here at CrawlSpace Ninja and we'll get you in
touch with these guys too.
Just go todiycrawlspaceninjacom and we can
hook you guys up.
The other thing I wanted to askyou about is what type of
service.
Like you mentioned, you want totalk to this group, but I
assume the contractor, forexample, might need a little bit
of help on the install.
So do you all help them withthat?
(23:32):
Do you teach them how to dothat or have some kind of way to
communicate?
Chuck (23:38):
with the contractor after the salesman made it.
So we basically have aspecification that we will write
for an architect so that theycan put it in their spec manual.
And those spec manuals get verydetailed as far as installation
processes.
That's one way, but the otherway is just to reach out to them
individually or as a group andsay, hey, this is the product
and we can do pro day or lunchand learn or offer any of those
(24:00):
opportunities as well.
For education.
Michael Church (24:02):
Very good, Joe.
Do you have anything to add tothat?
Joe (24:04):
Yeah, just educating your general contractors with the
specifications from the civilengineer, the landscape
architect.
Like Chuck said, we can dothose with pro days or lunch and
learns.
But one of the most beneficialthings is when we're at the
sports builder shows.
There's a handful of chaptersand you can actually talk and go
over the product with them andthen that leads to a lunch and
(24:25):
learn or a pro day.
I think it's very beneficialwhen you're in front of just the
audience and you're the onlyproduct there and you can get
their undivided attention andhave a powerful presentation and
you can get them to interact.
And once they understand thelabor savings and the easy
install and just the knowledgeof the product, it starts to
(24:46):
turn some heads and you canquantify that from a revenue
perspective.
Michael Church (24:50):
Can you all share with us maybe some of the
names of the brands that arerecognizable that Hydraway has
worked with in the past?
I know we're talking about golfcourses.
We talked about the Field ofDreams field.
Are there any others thatyou're allowed to tell us about?
Joe (25:02):
Sure, we just did the Big River Runs project in Alabama.
It's a very high-end sportscomplex for the youth.
We've done the Toronto Blue JaySpring Training Complex.
We've done the University ofMissouri, along with thousands
of other D1 schools, but herelocally we've got the University
of Missouri, we just did thePhiladelphia MLS, along with the
(25:23):
St Louis City practice fields,and then we've also done the NFL
training facilities, some ofthe ones we did the Rams here in
St Louis City practice fields,and then we've also done the NFL
training facilities, some ofthe ones we did the Rams here in
St Louis when they were here inSt Louis.
So those are some of the higherones that we've done, along
with thousands of K through 12schools as well.
Michael Church (25:39):
Well, I'm glad you brought that up, because a
lot of people are like, yeah,the St Louis Rams can afford
whatever right.
So let's talk about that forjust a minute.
Afford whatever right?
So let's talk about that forjust a minute.
The affordability of thisproduct is very good.
Don't just look at the price ofthe product.
Look at the labor involved,installing other products that
we've talked about.
So even from a homeownerperspective, or a small high
(26:00):
school, middle schoolperspective, small
municipalities, this iscertainly an affordable product
that they can get.
Is that correct?
Joe (26:06):
That is correct and you know, from a residential
perspective, knowing that yourlocal high school, your local
college, trusted Hydroway to useit in their fields or their
business, that makes them feellike, okay, well, if they trust
Hydroway, then I can use that inmy yard or my home or my
business.
So that's one of the coolthings about Hydroway that it
can be used in many verticals,as we call it.
(26:28):
But it's also knowing whereit's been installed and the
transfer of trust that we havewith the civils and landscape
architects and generalcontractors.
You know, knowing where ourproduct has been put and how
it's been installed Greatinformation.
Bill (26:39):
I would say, michael, that ultimately, the big
differentiator between Hydrowayand round pipe is the inflow
rate.
It's not about moving waterthrough the pipe, it's getting
water into the pipe.
So there's no other product onthe market that does that better
and so, integrated in all ofthese case studies and all these
projects, the realdifferentiator is the fact that
(27:01):
the Hydroway can receive waterfaster than anything on the
market.
That would be my one plug forthe product.
Michael Church (27:09):
Okay, and Bill, if you don't mind real quick,
there are some knockoffs outthere.
How does someone know ahomeowner or a golf course or
whatever?
How do they know they'reactually getting Hydroid?
What makes your productdistinctive to others out there?
Bill (27:22):
We have had a problem with companies knocking it off with
an inferior plastic and thatinferior plastic will degrade
over time or the material is notproperly attached to the
plastic and on the outside theylook very similar.
So I guess it was probablythree, four years ago.
Maybe we took a step to wrapthe product with a different
(27:44):
color, so you'll actually see awhite or a gray stripe and we
call that salt and pepper.
So we have the capability ofwrapping it.
It's exactly the same fiber,exactly the same wrap that we're
putting on the entire material.
It's just a different color,and that has eliminated a lot of
the knockoffs in the past fewyears.
(28:06):
I'm sure at some point in thefuture people will probably try
to duplicate that because thisproduct is a patented product
and we have that patent goeswell into the 2030s, so we'll
still have some people try toknock it off, but we'll do our
best to stay ahead of it andchange things up like what we're
talking about here.
Michael Church (28:24):
Yeah Well, I'm looking forward to you all
coming out with the red andblack Ninja version, so that's
what.
I'm looking for.
So that's very good, and Billagain real quick.
This is made in the U S, isthat right?
Bill (28:35):
Tell us a little bit about this Made right here in
Caseyville, Illinois.
Michael Church (28:38):
Very good.
I've been to there, I'vewatched it being made.
It's a pretty coolmanufacturing process, so very
good.
And so we got a six inch or a12 inch opportunity, depending
on the application.
It can either be vertical orhorizontal again, depending on
the application.
So it's a product that can bevery diverse in how it's
installed and everything else.
(28:59):
Is that right, gentlemen?
That's correct, all right.
Well, I appreciate all three ofyour time today and just look
forward to this video coming outso that if anybody watching
this video has some questions,I'm going to put a link down
below to contact us if you'reinterested, either for your
local high school or your localmunicipality or, who knows,
maybe you manage a big facilitythat you need some help with
(29:19):
drainage or something like that.
So, appreciate you allgentlemen doing this with me,
and I'm Michael Church withCrawl, space Ninja and these
folks here at Hydrowraway, andwe hope you make it a happy and
blessed day and we'll see youlater.
Hey everybody, michael Church here with Crawl
Space Ninja, and welcome toanother episode of the Ninja
Podcast.
Today I'm going to be joined byJoe, bill and Chuck of Hydraway
, an innovative company that'schanging the game when it comes
to drainage solutions.
We've got a jam-packed episodeahead where we'll be diving into
the.
Hydraway is used in everythingfrom residential yards to
(00:22):
basements and crawl spaces, allthe way to sports fields and
even the iconic Field of Dreams.
We'll also be talking about howHydroway doesn't hold water it
moves it, and how that makes ahuge difference compared to
traditional systems.
Plus, it works withoutaggregate, which saves time,
money and a whole lot ofback-breaking labor.
(00:45):
And hey, if you're like me andyour golf skills are
questionable at best, having adry golf course might finally
give us weekend hackers afighting chance.
Stick around as we explore howthis affordable and
easy-to-install system ishelping prevent striping on
lawns, keeping sports fields intop shape and protecting homes
(01:07):
across the country.
Let's get started.
So tell me a little bit aboutwhat you do exactly.
Chuck (01:16):
I work for Hydraway and I am implementing the product
into the golf line.
We are exploring options on howto get more golf courses to use
Hydraway as a supplementaldrainage system to drainage
systems they already have.
So who I'm trying to work withthe most is the golf course
superintendents, because theymanage the maintenance of the
golf course.
So drainage is a big part ofany golf course.
(01:39):
That's like my background is.
I was a golf course architectfor 30 years and and I also was
a superintendent and I alsobuilt golf courses and in that
experience I have learned thatdrainage is one of the most
important aspects to everyaspect of golf, from design to
construction to managing andmaintenance.
So Hydroway is a great productbecause it's a supplemental
(02:02):
product to the drainage that'salready in the ground from the
initial construction.
But it dries up areas thatconstantly remain trouble spots.
Michael Church (02:11):
Well, I'm not much of a golfer but I have
played on some really nice evenprivate courses where they seem
to have some kind of low spotwhere somebody like me who can't
hit a golf ball and winds uptearing up more of the soil than
hits the golf ball, couldreally use a dry ground to hit
off of.
Chuck (02:32):
Yeah, and what Hydroway does?
Is it really, once installed,promotes a more consistent
playing surface.
So the areas that you knowfairway and all that, it's more
consistent from a playabilitystandpoint.
So it really dries up some ofthese wet areas where water just
naturally tends to want tostand.
Michael Church (02:57):
I wanted this to be more about the relationship
between Hydraway and how it'sused in sports fields as well.
As you know, if these folks whomanage these multi-million
dollar sports fields are usingHydraway, then, you know, maybe
a homeowner should considertaking a look at it for their
foundation.
So that's kind of what I wantedto show with this video.
And there's Joe, so let's lethim in.
Hey, joe.
Joe (03:14):
Good morning, good afternoon, wherever you're at
it's afternoon for me.
Michael Church (03:17):
I'm East, it's afternoon, are you Central?
Chuck (03:21):
Yeah, he's Central yeah.
Michael Church (03:22):
You guys in Caseyville yes sir, where are
you at?
Chuck (03:24):
I'm actually in Branson Missouri.
I work remote.
Is that central?
I assume Branson Missouri.
Yes, yeah, yeah.
Michael Church (03:29):
Okay, all right, very good, so when we get done
you guys can take a break andgrab some lunch then, right?
So that's the good news.
Sounds like a plan, are you?
I'm good?
Good to see you, man, see you.
I was getting to know chuck alittle bit and telling him about
my horrible golf shots andmuddy golf courses.
I mean, I'm bad enough wheneverit's dry so I could see how
(03:52):
hydro way could help somebodylike me who can't actually play
golf very well, do better.
I remember doing this one shotand I I think there was more mud
on the club than the club hit.
You know, it was like it, likewhere did that come from?
It was a divot.
It was so big I couldn't evenfix it, I just like snuck away.
Bill (04:13):
You just kind of snuck off the course.
Michael Church (04:15):
Yeah, I was like I don't know if anybody saw me
do that, I just kind of left.
So I think that was like mylast.
I had this time in my lifewhere I wanted to learn how to
play golf, because it seems likeeverybody in the business world
plays golf Right and I was likeyou know, maybe I need to learn
and I got so mad.
I was just like you know, Idon't need this kind of
(04:35):
frustration in my life.
I just I just quit.
I.
I.
I had like a really nice set ofclubs.
I bought like expensive set ofclubs, lost a ton of money when
I sold them on Facebookmarketplace and I was done and
I've been happier ever since.
Bill (04:50):
So those of you that have learned how to play golf.
Michael Church (04:53):
I have a lot of respect for you.
I really do.
So anyway it's not something Ican do, all right, so let's get
into it and we'll just like posesome questions and some things
that I've been curious aboutwith Hydroway.
Over the years, I've heard alot of rumors, and you all are
the ones to confirm these rumors, right?
So the first rumor I heard isthat Hydroway was used in the
(05:16):
Field of Dreams field, which wasthe movie that Kevin Costner
made.
Is that correct that Hydrowaywas used in that field?
Joe (05:22):
Yeah, so Hydroway was the only flat panel drain specified
and approved by major leaguebaseball for that field.
So it is the most televisedmajor league baseball game to
this day.
And in that field the majorleague baseball wanted to put
hydroway in a horizontalapplication on a natural field
because it's a high performancesand based field.
So they dug one inch trenches,laid Hydraway and then put the
(05:45):
root zone, sand mix and rootzone on top of it to establish
that root zone mix.
That was a mixture that theydid and in doing so the day
before the game they had asubstantial amount of rain three
to four inches of rain thenight before and they were
cutting the grass the nextmorning and in doing so, in
center field is the pump stationfor the drainage, and hydroway
removed so much water theyactually had to put in a second
(06:08):
pump station behind the firstbase dugout.
So it's pretty uniqueapplication.
It was one of the first thatthey did in the high performance
sand base fields where theyactually it's this.
It's just a shallow trenchwhere hydroway lays in and your
compression strength allows forthe mowing and the turf and it
establishes about a six inchroot zone.
Because major league baseball,when I work for the cardinals.
(06:29):
The outfield grass is basicallya little bit taller than a
putting green.
So the foot traffic and thecutting and it's.
It's cut anywhere from two tothree times a day and then it's
rolled as well as you know yourinfield grass is a little bit
shorter than your outfield grass, but yeah, it's cut two to
three times a day and rolledwell, and speaking of putting
(06:49):
greens, chuck, you were.
Michael Church (06:51):
You and I were talking about how you know
hydroways used in golf courseapplication.
Tell us why that's important toget this product out to other
golf courses, sure.
Chuck (06:59):
So in golf courses.
There there's subsurfacedrainage which goes in below a
lot of the different features.
So it goes in below greens andit goes into bunkers and that's
a subsurface where it's trenchedin below the engineered part of
the green right.
So the green is basically anengineered feature.
It has a root zone that perksthe water through to the
(07:20):
drainage system.
So Hydroway is a great fit andwe're still exploring it in the
use of putting greens and we'regetting more traction in that
direction.
But what I am trying to promoteHydroway in the golf industry
more is for French drainage,where it dries up areas that
typically stay wet and it's adifferent application.
(07:41):
So it's a vertical applicationof the pipe instead of a
horizontal application.
And the advantages of thatgoing in, especially on existing
courses, is there is lessdisturbance of the actual course
on install because you don'thave to dig as wide of a trench
to put it in because the productis only an inch wide.
So you can dig a four to sixinch trench instead of a backhoe
(08:05):
bucket width.
And the other advantage is thatyou can backfill with a coarse
sand and you don't have tobackfill necessarily with a pea
gravel.
With a pea gravel application,then that just creates more
steps for the owner.
They have to import pea gravel,they have to store pea gravel,
they have to move pea gravel tothe course.
There's contamination becausepea gravel gets into the turf
(08:27):
and then the mowers can't mowcorrectly or it'll damage the
reels on a mower.
So there's a lot ofdisadvantages to using pea
gravel and you want to try andavoid it if you can, and Hydro-A
allows you to do that becauseyou can use a coarse sand and if
you spill coarse sand on thecourse it really doesn't matter
because it blends into the soil.
That's the advantage of theHydro-A product.
Michael Church (08:47):
And I would guess using the coarse sand
would help to anchor theHydroway into the ground.
Is that correct?
As well as give it somethingfor the grass or whatever you're
going to put on top to grow?
Chuck (08:58):
Yeah, so it helps create that seed bed and that basically
the root zone, so that when youreestablish the turf over the
top it can grab into something alittle bit easier and it allows
the water to filter throughquicker to get into the pipe.
But the pipe, as we know, isdesigned for maximum capacity.
You get about 80% flow rateinto the pipe just because of
the way it's designed, comparedto a normal four-inch drain tile
(09:21):
that's perforated where youknow the water has to kind of go
along the pipe and then seepinto the pipe through the
perforations, hydraway hits thepipe immediately in because
there's that much more voidspace.
Michael Church (09:32):
Yeah, let's talk about that just for a second.
I've read where, say, forexample, some of these slit
pipes, they only have about a 6%opening.
So let's speak to a 6% opening,moving water versus an 80%
opening.
Joe, like you were talkingabout how the pumps couldn't
even keep up.
Now that may sound like, ohwell, I don't want to install
that because now I got to havepumps.
But no, you're moving water.
That's what you want, right.
(09:53):
So could you speak on that forme?
Joe (09:54):
Yeah, so it's just the visual conception Round pipe
versus a flat panel, four inchdiameter versus an inch width.
Hydroway is never going to holdwater.
It's going to remove water andwhen you have a slit slot hole
theory, as you do in pipes, thewater has to make its way down
through the 8-inch, 10-inchtrench and then get into those
slit slot holes and there's onlyabout a 5% open area.
(10:17):
So for that water to get inthere and then move out.
Visually you know it's hard tosee, but once you've done the
testing and you've looked andresearched it, those slit slot
holes can get clogged withsediment and everything else, or
Hydroway doesn't.
Hydroway is a cavity system.
It's going to allow the waterto drain through all sides so it
doesn't have to go around thepipe and seep in.
It's going to go through ourpipe to a point to where it
(10:38):
can't drain anymore and when itdoes and it starts to come back
up, it hits our system andimmediately, on all sides, exits
to your collector system, wherea round pipe has.
It builds up and it gets the,the pressure I say pressure, the
water pressure that gets intothe hole and then moves it out.
It just has a bigger area tohold water.
I don't want to hold water, Iwant to move water.
What you get most of yourproblems on a natural turf field
(11:01):
is from standing water, andthat standing water is because
it doesn't percolate through thepipe or hydro way.
We have an 18 to 28 inch perhour per square foot perk rate
and that's why we allow for theclean core sand in the USGA
standards at 0.2 millimeter to0.5 millimeter, which is
basically a pea gravel.
It allows that water to gothrough the system and then our
(11:21):
system captures that water at apoint to where it can't drain
anymore and moves it out.
Michael Church (11:25):
Well, and that's a good point, I've done a lot
of videos over the years and youall did a video, and I've done
a video where I showed aperforated pipe compared to the
Hydraway and how much water itmoves.
So if any of you are watchingthis video, I'll put a link to
one of those down below.
But, chuck, what Joe said andwhat you hit on a minute ago it
just brought up to my mind about.
You know, not only are youhaving to use a bucket size
(11:47):
width to install these perfpipes size width to install
these perf pipes, but when youtalk about a four inch
perforated pipe, you're probablytalking about another six
inches of aggregate and filtersocket, everything else around
there, not to mention the factthat somebody is going to have
to drive that backhoe acrossthat lawn and the tracks are
probably going to destroy it.
And I can see HydroA beinginstalled with maybe a ditch
(12:07):
witch or something small likethat.
Is that correct?
That's exactly right.
Chuck (12:11):
And from a golf course perspective you know they spend
so much time maintaining andperfecting that turf that the
less damage they can do, thebetter off.
They are.
Right, you don't want to haveto go back in and repair.
The other advantage of Hydrawayis just the quickness of the
install.
So you have less downtime.
Right, because you're nothaving to repair as much and
(12:33):
you're not having to, you know,grow in as much turf because
you're not disturbing as much.
You know the ideal installwould be you take out a sod
cutter, you cut a couple rows ofsod out.
Take your ditch witch out, youcut your trench.
If the material is suitable,then you just backfill with that
exact same material.
So you're cutting out a lot ofsteps on the install process.
That makes the whole processquicker because you're not
(12:55):
having import material, you'renot having an export material,
you're not having to, you know,tear up a 20-foot width area
just for equipment and all thataspect.
So you're really minimizingyour footprint.
Michael Church (13:08):
And some of you watching this video might be
thinking well, why is MichaelChurch of Crawl Space Ninja
talking about golf courses andbaseball fields?
Well, you know our customers.
Some of their yards look likegolf courses and baseball fields
.
They take care of them so wellthat they don't want to.
If they have a drainage problem, they don't want to get in
there with a backhoe and destroytheir lawn.
So this could even be a lawnapplication, and if one of you
(13:31):
want to speak to that as well,that'd be great.
As far as using it for apersonal residence and how well
it can do and where, you wouldinstall it so in a French drain
application in a residentiallandscape.
Joe (13:42):
You're going to address it in the low-lying or the standing
water areas and with Hydrawayyou can trench it in just a
four-inch trench, you know,seven, eight inches deep and you
can reuse the spoils.
We don't need the aggregate ina French drain application to
install Hydroway.
Then you can put your sod rackback over the top of it.
There's not going to be anydisruption to your yard or to
(14:03):
your business or whatever thecase may be.
But one of the things that youbrought up earlier was with
aggregate.
And here's a cool, cool thing.
I did some research a whileback on aggregate in the hydro
way world.
In the drainage world they usenumber 57, which is a
three-quarter inch clean stone,and from our home right here in
caseyville, nine hours away inin louisiana, a yard of number
(14:23):
57 stone in louisiana is 110 ayard and illinois is 10 a yard
so if you do the math, you'regoing to use round pipe versus
hydro, a lot of rock versus norock.
That's in the case of syntheticfields and anything, because
people are trying to say thatnumber 57, stone is a drainage
system.
But yeah, it drains water.
So what are you going to doafter a couple of years, when
(14:45):
all those fines make their waydown and now your void area is
diminished?
Where does the water go?
It's going to go up, right,it's going to push everything up
to the top.
So it's just educating peoplejust on the importance of
Hydraway, how simple it is andhow powerful it is when it
removes water.
It's an easy install.
Two guys can roll out 150 footroll in 15 seconds.
Michael Church (15:01):
Wow, and there's quite a bit of weight to a
bucket of three quarter inchstone.
And that was one of the thingsthat really attracted me about
Hydraway in the crawl spaceapplication is, you know, you're
looking at anywhere between twoto four feet of space and
traditional pipe installrequired us to put that three
quarter inch stone around thatpipe and trying to maneuver in
(15:23):
and out of a crawl space withall that stone and still not
even being as effective.
After all that labor, it'sbasically from a work comp
perspective.
It's probably saved us becauseyou could throw out a shoulder,
you could hurt your back orwhatever trying to crawl in and
out when, like you said,hydraway, you just roll the
stuff out.
We use a trencher, an electrictrencher, inside the crawl space
(15:47):
to create kind of like anelectric handheld ditch which
and that way it saves us laborand time, and then we just put
the Hydraway in there and it's agreat install from that
perspective.
So I appreciate you bringingthat up too.
Hey there, michael Church,founder of Crawl Space Ninja, do
you have a crawl space or abasement?
Or perhaps your home issuffering from some type of
(16:09):
indoor air quality issue?
I want to encourage you tocheck out my book Crawl Space
Repair Myths Busted, availableon Amazon.
This is a great book for anyhomeowner that is concerned
about indoor air quality, mold,moisture, whether you're on a
crawl space or a basement or aslab built house.
This is a great book, greatinformation.
I encourage you to check it outAgain.
(16:30):
The name of the book is CrawlSpace Repair Myths Busted, now
available on Amazon.
Joe (16:36):
So this is a conversation that we had yesterday and, if
you think about it, the you knowperf pipe, four inch round pipe
, has been around for many, manydecades.
Right, but how many times havea natural turf installer or
synthetic turf installer, alandscaper, a golf course?
They're always trying toreinvent the wheel because
they're trying to find the waythat it's going to work the best
.
Well, guess what?
(16:56):
They still have yet to find thebest way.
Hydroway, simple.
It's a four inch trench.
In a natural field, it's 12 to14 inches deep.
In a landscape application, youknow, six to nine inches deep.
Bill (17:06):
It's simple it's never going to change, don't have to
reinvent the wheel.
Joe (17:09):
We don't have to come up with different ideas on how to
move water.
That's just some things thatpeople, it's just an insight
that people can think about andit just goes along with how
simple and easy of aninstallation it is.
Chuck (17:19):
Yeah, and I'm going to add on to that just a hair.
In a golf course application, alot of the drainage issues come
from where they have put roundpipe in with gravel around it.
The water gets to the graveland then it runs along the side
of the pipe until it can seep in.
Right, what ends up happeningis 50, 60 feet down the line
that water hits a resistance andit pops up, especially in a
(17:40):
rain event, especially as therain is happening and that's
where the damage comes from instorms is and you wash out drain
lines.
It's because it's getting somuch water so quickly that it's
not absorbing into the pipe asefficiently as it should.
Right, with hydro way, youdon't have that issue, and that
that's the advantage of the 80percent void that allows that
(18:00):
much more water in.
So you're taking care of thatinitial rainfall event and then
any residuals are automaticallygoing in as well.
Michael Church (18:15):
Very good.
Well, I just want to clarifytwo terms that we use a lot that
maybe someone listening may notknow.
Aggregate Joe's alreadyexplained what that is.
It's basically just rock or peagravel or even, in some cases,
styrofoam that could be usedaround the pipe to give the pipe
more surface area and thenspoils.
That's something.
When I first heard I was likewhat is spoils right?
So basically, spoils is thedirt that you excavated.
So instead of Mr Jones havingto worry about what am I going
(18:38):
to do with this big mound ofdirt, you just put that dirt
back in over the hydroway.
Is that right, joe?
Is that what you're saying?
Joe (18:43):
Correct.
You fill it up around the sides, put it back over the top and
then you can reuse the cut sodthat you've already done.
And another cool feature ofHydro is because of the way it's
installed, you don't have toworry about striping, and people
are going to say well, what isstriping?
So when you use a round pipe,the trench is eight to 10 inches
wide and, however deep they putit, you have the possibility of
(19:04):
striping.
And what that does is when youlay that sod back over to the
top of it.
So you've got your green grassand you're going to see a yellow
line.
That yellow line is because itdoesn't establish a healthy root
zone, because it's such a bigarea and you have all of that
aggregate around it to maintainthe green grass.
I'm not saying it's impossible,but you're going to have
striping.
So we see it a lot in naturalturf fields.
When they do a reno, they'll doa drone footage of it and
(19:26):
you'll see the the yellowstripes and that's where they've
laid the pipe which canactually happen in golf courses,
too.
Chuck (19:32):
With the backfill in golf courses, after you put the pipe
in, you're going to create anew root zone.
What you need to do is makesure that that has organics in
it as much as you can and isconsistent with everything else
that's around it, and that wayyou avoid that striping that
we've been talking about.
Michael Church (19:46):
Very good, chuck .
I heard Bill talk about I thinkit was Bill or maybe Joe talk
about Hydraway and how unique itis to use around a bunker.
I have spent a lot of times inbunkers in my golfing career so
I'm very familiar with them.
But how is Hydrawayparticularly used and how do you
see it be an advantage around abunker where other installation
(20:08):
or other pipes may not be asgood?
Chuck (20:10):
Well, Hydroway has a couple of different applications
.
In bunkers, you can put itunder the sub base of the bunker
and it's going to carry morewater, which is a great thing,
which takes that you know,contamination factor out of the
equation, because sand getscontaminated not only from the
lip of the bunker around it, butit also gets contaminated from
the bottom up.
If you have water, it's drainedthrough the sand and it's
(20:32):
working its way down to the pipeand the gravel that it's in
starts working its way upthrough the sand, especially
when it's completely like a rainevent or completely saturated.
So with Hydraway, you'reeliminating that water from
standing there and creating thatcontamination from the bottom
Hydroway you're eliminating thatwater from standing there and
creating that contamination fromthe bottom.
On the outside of the bunker youcan actually use it vertically
and kind of mirror the shape ofthe bunker and that takes a lot
(20:56):
of that surface water thatusually would come into the
bunker from the top.
It gets it into the pipe beforeit has a chance to do damage.
Michael Church (21:04):
So there's a couple of different applications
.
Very good, Joe.
I assume Hydroway comes in morethan just the waterproofing
sizes.
Are you using different sizesof Hydroway in different
applications?
Joe (21:14):
We offer a 6-inch and a 12-inch product.
Our 6-inch product is used inresidential crawl spaces and
basements, as you well know.
It's also used in golf coursesand fairways and aprons and
approaches.
It's also used in natural turffields and it's also used in
landscape and park and wrecks.
In the French drain application.
Our 12-inch product is usedmainly in synthetic turf.
(21:35):
It also can be used in aputting drain.
It's used in shotcrete walls,highways, a strip drain.
That's what it was invented for.
The other thing too is with our12-inch product, we've seen it
used in natural turf fields andwhen you do that, just the depth
of it is a little deeper.
It's 18 to 21 inches deep andyou always want to put it above
your irrigation lines.
(21:55):
Any application where you havea natural turf field golf
courses, natural turf fields,whatever it may be you always
want to put it above theirrigation lines and you always
want to allow that.
You know 6 to 8 inches for thathealthy root zone and people
always want to allow that.
You know six to eight inchesfor that healthy root zone and
people are going to ask why doyou put it above the irrigation
line?
If the irrigation line was tobreak, the water is going to go
up.
When it goes up, rises up, it'sgoing to hit the hydroway
system and then move out to thecollector system.
(22:17):
So it's just small littlethings that you can educate
people on why we do the thingsthat we do.
Michael Church (22:23):
And again, just a simple, easy install.
Well, and you threw out a lotof potential customers that I
assume Joe and Chuck and Billyou guys are trying to talk to,
so let's go over those again.
You talked about municipalities.
That would be someone local,city, county, state,
municipalities that are buildingroads and highways, and those
would be a good referral sourceor someone who you'd like to
(22:44):
talk to about that.
Is that correct?
Chuck (22:45):
We want to get to the source of who is specifying
product for projects.
That would be a huge advantageif we could get into the
specifiers' hands.
Specifically, from a golfstandpoint, there's the
superintendent, there's thecontractor, there's the
architect, and those are themain people of focus.
There's also the supplier orthe distributor.
(23:05):
So, we're trying to work withthose folks so that they can be
a distributor for us, so thatwe're in the game as well.
Michael Church (23:11):
Well, and anybody watching.
Reach out to us here at CrawlSpace Ninja and we'll get you in
touch with these guys too.
Just go todiycrawlspaceninjacom and we can
hook you guys up.
The other thing I wanted to askyou about is what type of
service.
Like you mentioned, you want totalk to this group, but I
assume the contractor, forexample, might need a little bit
of help on the install.
So do you all help them withthat?
(23:32):
Do you teach them how to dothat or have some kind of way to
communicate?
Chuck (23:38):
with the contractor after the salesman made it.
So we basically have aspecification that we will write
for an architect so that theycan put it in their spec manual.
And those spec manuals get verydetailed as far as installation
processes.
That's one way, but the otherway is just to reach out to them
individually or as a group andsay, hey, this is the product
and we can do pro day or lunchand learn or offer any of those
(24:00):
opportunities as well.
For education.
Michael Church (24:02):
Very good, Joe.
Do you have anything to add tothat?
Joe (24:04):
Yeah, just educating your general contractors with the
specifications from the civilengineer, the landscape
architect.
Like Chuck said, we can dothose with pro days or lunch and
learns.
But one of the most beneficialthings is when we're at the
sports builder shows.
There's a handful of chaptersand you can actually talk and go
over the product with them andthen that leads to a lunch and
(24:25):
learn or a pro day.
I think it's very beneficialwhen you're in front of just the
audience and you're the onlyproduct there and you can get
their undivided attention andhave a powerful presentation and
you can get them to interact.
And once they understand thelabor savings and the easy
install and just the knowledgeof the product, it starts to
(24:46):
turn some heads and you canquantify that from a revenue
perspective.
Michael Church (24:50):
Can you all share with us maybe some of the
names of the brands that arerecognizable that Hydraway has
worked with in the past?
I know we're talking about golfcourses.
We talked about the Field ofDreams field.
Are there any others thatyou're allowed to tell us about?
Joe (25:02):
Sure, we just did the Big River Runs project in Alabama.
It's a very high-end sportscomplex for the youth.
We've done the Toronto Blue JaySpring Training Complex.
We've done the University ofMissouri, along with thousands
of other D1 schools, but herelocally we've got the University
of Missouri, we just did thePhiladelphia MLS, along with the
(25:23):
St Louis City practice fields,and then we've also done the NFL
training facilities, some ofthe ones we did the Rams here in
St Louis City practice fields,and then we've also done the NFL
training facilities, some ofthe ones we did the Rams here in
St Louis when they were here inSt Louis.
So those are some of the higherones that we've done, along
with thousands of K through 12schools as well.
Michael Church (25:39):
Well, I'm glad you brought that up, because a
lot of people are like, yeah,the St Louis Rams can afford
whatever right.
So let's talk about that forjust a minute.
Afford whatever right?
So let's talk about that forjust a minute.
The affordability of thisproduct is very good.
Don't just look at the price ofthe product.
Look at the labor involved,installing other products that
we've talked about.
So even from a homeownerperspective, or a small high
(26:00):
school, middle schoolperspective, small
municipalities, this iscertainly an affordable product
that they can get.
Is that correct?
Joe (26:06):
That is correct and you know, from a residential
perspective, knowing that yourlocal high school, your local
college, trusted Hydroway to useit in their fields or their
business, that makes them feellike, okay, well, if they trust
Hydroway, then I can use that inmy yard or my home or my
business.
So that's one of the coolthings about Hydroway that it
can be used in many verticals,as we call it.
(26:28):
But it's also knowing whereit's been installed and the
transfer of trust that we havewith the civils and landscape
architects and generalcontractors.
You know, knowing where ourproduct has been put and how
it's been installed Greatinformation.
Bill (26:39):
I would say, michael, that ultimately, the big
differentiator between Hydrowayand round pipe is the inflow
rate.
It's not about moving waterthrough the pipe, it's getting
water into the pipe.
So there's no other product onthe market that does that better
and so, integrated in all ofthese case studies and all these
projects, the realdifferentiator is the fact that
(27:01):
the Hydroway can receive waterfaster than anything on the
market.
That would be my one plug forthe product.
Michael Church (27:09):
Okay, and Bill, if you don't mind real quick,
there are some knockoffs outthere.
How does someone know ahomeowner or a golf course or
whatever?
How do they know they'reactually getting Hydroid?
What makes your productdistinctive to others out there?
Bill (27:22):
We have had a problem with companies knocking it off with
an inferior plastic and thatinferior plastic will degrade
over time or the material is notproperly attached to the
plastic and on the outside theylook very similar.
So I guess it was probablythree, four years ago.
Maybe we took a step to wrapthe product with a different
(27:44):
color, so you'll actually see awhite or a gray stripe and we
call that salt and pepper.
So we have the capability ofwrapping it.
It's exactly the same fiber,exactly the same wrap that we're
putting on the entire material.
It's just a different color,and that has eliminated a lot of
the knockoffs in the past fewyears.
(28:06):
I'm sure at some point in thefuture people will probably try
to duplicate that because thisproduct is a patented product
and we have that patent goeswell into the 2030s, so we'll
still have some people try toknock it off, but we'll do our
best to stay ahead of it andchange things up like what we're
talking about here.
Michael Church (28:24):
Yeah Well, I'm looking forward to you all
coming out with the red andblack Ninja version, so that's
what.
I'm looking for.
So that's very good, and Billagain real quick.
This is made in the U S, isthat right?
Bill (28:35):
Tell us a little bit about this Made right here in
Caseyville, Illinois.
Michael Church (28:38):
Very good.
I've been to there, I'vewatched it being made.
It's a pretty coolmanufacturing process, so very
good.
And so we got a six inch or a12 inch opportunity, depending
on the application.
It can either be vertical orhorizontal again, depending on
the application.
So it's a product that can bevery diverse in how it's
installed and everything else.
(28:59):
Is that right, gentlemen?
That's correct, all right.
Well, I appreciate all three ofyour time today and just look
forward to this video coming outso that if anybody watching
this video has some questions,I'm going to put a link down
below to contact us if you'reinterested, either for your
local high school or your localmunicipality or, who knows,
maybe you manage a big facilitythat you need some help with
(29:19):
drainage or something like that.
So, appreciate you allgentlemen doing this with me,
and I'm Michael Church withCrawl, space Ninja and these
folks here at Hydrowraway, andwe hope you make it a happy and
blessed day and we'll see youlater.
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