April 26, 2025 • 19 mins
Have you ever wondered what's really happening in that dark, mysterious space beneath your floorboards? In this eye-opening episode, we pull back the curtain on a real-life crawl space inspection in North Georgia with our Lafayette branch manager, James Derry.
When homeowner "Tom" called us about water intrusion and mold concerns, we discovered a crawl space with 62-63% humidity levels, fallen insulation, and multiple varieties of fungal growth actively degrading his home's structural components. Through detailed photographs and expert analysis, we walk you through exactly what we found – from the telltale white efflorescence on foundation walls to the distinctive "birdshot" pattern of certain mold types on wooden joists.
Beyond just identifying problems, we break down our comprehensive remediation approach: debris removal, insulation extraction, air sealing, soda blasting with food-grade sodium bicarbonate, and the application of specialized penetrating sealants. We explain why each step matters and how these solutions differ from less effective alternatives used by other companies. You'll learn why we prefer penetrating sealants to surface encapsulants and why proper dehumidification is critical to long-term crawl space health.
Perhaps most valuable is our candid discussion about maintenance – that forgotten aspect of crawl space care that can mean the difference between a system that lasts for decades and one that fails prematurely. James shares real-world examples of what happens when dehumidifiers aren't properly serviced and why our maintenance program offers something remarkable: a lifetime warranty on mechanical components that would typically wear out over time.
Whether you're dealing with crawl space issues right now or simply want to prevent problems before they start, this episode delivers practical wisdom you can use to protect your home's foundation, air quality, and your family's health. Subscribe now and discover why, as Michael says, "A dry house smells better than a wet house."
Check out Michael's book, "Crawl Space Repair Myths-Busted" now available on Amazon!
Schedule a consultation: https://buymeacoffee.com/csninja/extras
Need help: https://crawlspaceninja.com or https://diy.crawlspaceninja.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Michael Church (00:00):
All right, james , I appreciate you joining me on
this call and this is JamesDerry.
He is our branch manager andall things Ninja of Lafayette
Georgia.
So I appreciate you being onhere, james, and, speaking of
Lafayette Georgia, tell us whendid we open up and what areas
are you serving down there?
Real quick for anybody watching.
James Derry (00:18):
We originally opened up at beginning of
October.
We service just below Marietta,up into Cleveland, saudi Daisy
area and the southern sectionsof Tennessee.
Michael Church (00:29):
So you guys are a little bit Chattanooga, even
creeping into some parts ofeastern Alabama based out of
Lafayette, georgia.
So if you're in those areas ofNorth Georgia and need some help
from Crawl Space Ninja.
We're heavy into foundationrepair based on waterproofing.
Tell us a little bit about thatas well, if you don't mind.
James Derry (00:48):
We do helical underpinning.
We do do some resistance piersDepends on what your house is
and what we're dealing with.
We also do carbon fiber straps,which are quite a bit stronger
than actual steel.
Helps us to be able tostabilize a bowing wall.
We do soil anchors to pull awall back or be able to
stabilize that wall from beingable to bow in or shear.
A lot of exciting things in thefoundation field, Really a
(01:08):
place that I really myself liketo call home.
Michael Church (01:15):
I enjoy foundation work tremendously
Very good.
Well, we're going to walkthrough an inspection that we
did and we're going to call thishomeowner Tom, and basically
James is going to take usthrough what the inspection was
like, what some of the issuesthat was found there.
We thought it'd be really nicefor you, as viewers, to see
exactly what it is we're lookingfor, and then we got some after
photos that we'll post.
So, james, if you don't mind,take us through this home for
(01:35):
Tom, what all was found and whatthe recommended repairs were.
James Derry (01:39):
We were actually called out for water intrusion,
mold, fungal growth, things likethat.
So one of the first things welike to do is talk with the
customer and get the customer'spoint of view of what's going on
and what they're experiencing.
But then we like to be able toget underneath there and take a
look at things so you'll noticewhere they've got the hybrometer
out.
We're looking to find out whatthat relative humidity is.
As we all have learned throughwatching Mr Church's videos is
(02:02):
that humidity absolutely matters.
It can drive.
The higher the moisture, thehigher the chance for that
fungal growth.
That fungal growth can cause alot of different problems, ie it
can cause wood damage, healthproblems, a lot of different
issues.
One thing that we're lookingfor are the dropped insulation
that we're looking at.
You're looking at a lot ofinsulation that's dropping or
hanging down over the time.
(02:22):
A lot of things can make lintinsulation do that.
One, just not hung correctly.
Two too much moisture makesthem too heavy.
That'll cause them to drop Agedeterioration.
In this situation like this,where you can start to see
fungal growth, if you lookaround the blocking you can
actually see where there'sgotten some moisture to.
That you see how you see thedifferent colors in that
(02:44):
blocking.
Michael Church (02:44):
You're talking about on the foundation wall.
Is that correct?
James Derry (02:47):
Yes, sir on that foundation wall.
So we're looking at an areaobviously that's got very high
humidity.
We're at 62% 63% humidity inthat crawl space.
We're looking at an area wherewe've got insulation failing all
the way around us.
You're looking at a situationwhere you can obviously see that
there's been moisture in thiscrawl space.
Just looking at the lines onthe cinder block wall, you see
(03:10):
the white crusting that's comingthrough there.
That's always good signs thatwe've had moisture Can.
Michael Church (03:16):
I interrupt you just for one second, James.
I think that's a great pointyou're making here.
You know, the homeowner may ormay not have a hygrometer, they
may not, you know, evenphysically be able to get into
the crawl space.
But if you've got a decentenough flashlight, you can shine
to the back of that crawl spaceand you can start to see that
discoloration on the foundationwalls, the efflorescence, the
(03:36):
insulation falling out from thejoists.
Those are all signs of moistureproblems.
So you can call us out toverify, of moisture problems.
So you can call us out toverify.
But if you see these things inyour crawl space, you should
start being suspect that there'ssomething going on down there
and maybe have a professionaltake a look at it.
Right?
Would you say that, James?
James Derry (03:53):
Oh, absolutely without a doubt.
These are always signs to lookfor.
The musky smells that you getinside of your home.
Those are excellent signs.
You have to remember thateverything that you're smelling
inside of your home, a goodportion of that, is coming from
underneath your house.
When we turn on that AC system,we're going to suck what's in
that crawl space right up intoour homes.
Michael Church (04:13):
Yeah, and you know that brings up another good
point.
I don't know who has a bettersense of smell, you or your wife
, but in my house my wife has away better sense of smell, and
who even has a better sense ofsmell than both of us is our
mother-in-law.
So if you want to know reallywhat your house smells like,
call your mother-in-law, youknow, have her come out and take
(04:35):
a smell and I'm sure she'll bemore than happy to share her
opinion on what your housesmells like.
So anyway, that's a really goodpoint.
You know, and I always talkabout this in our videos a dry
dog smells better than a wet dog.
I always talk about this in ourvideos A dry dog smells better
than a wet dog.
A dry house smells better thana wet house.
So, just by lowering humidity,getting that crawl space or
basement if you've got a floodedbasement, anything like that,
(04:55):
that you've got going on anytype of moisture.
A garage If you keep yourgarage door open and you've got
a bonus room over your garage,like today it's raining and has
been raining for almost 15 hours.
So the saturation it's humidoutside.
If you got your garage doorcracked, it's humid in your
garage.
The rest of your house isgetting humid.
So we got to control thismoisture and it will control
(05:17):
odor.
So sorry about interrupting you, james, go ahead and go forth.
Hey there, michael Church,founder of Crawl Space Ninja.
Do you have a crawl space or abasement, or perhaps your home
is suffering from some type ofindoor air quality issue.
I want to encourage you tocheck out my book Crawl Space
Repair Myths Busted, availableon Amazon.
(05:38):
This is a great book for anyhomeowner that is concerned
about indoor air quality, mold,moisture, whether you're on a
crawl space or a basement or aslab built house.
This is a great book, greatinformation.
I encourage you to check it outAgain.
The name of the book is CrawlSpace Repair Myths Busted, now
available on Amazon.
James Derry (05:58):
I think those are great points.
I mean you can explore thatwith almost any structure that
you're in, whether it be a slabset house or a crawl space house
, those humidity levels matter.
My upstairs humidity iscompletely different than my
downstairs humidity, so allthose things matter and it
matters in any home that you'rein.
So, yeah, you're absolutelygoing to pull that stuff through
, no matter where you are Allright, very good.
Michael Church (06:18):
Well, let's get into the mold Now.
I used to shoot shotguns when Iwas younger and that mold looks
like somebody shot birdshot atthe wood.
You see that picture rightthere.
It looks really funky on thatpiece of wood, wouldn't you say
yeah, it almost looks likepeppering on there.
James Derry (06:33):
Yeah, and it is one of the main ones that we're
looking for.
We're looking for that.
We're looking for the whitecoatings, the white sheens, as
you see in 1.2.3 and 1.2.4.
Michael Church (06:43):
as you see in 1.2.3 and 1.2.4.
And then you go down to 1.1.1and look at that gray.
It's a totally different typeof mold.
It's like completely saturatedthat piece of wood.
It's crazy how different moldsare.
James Derry (06:58):
Well, and then you go to and you step down even one
more to the 1.1.2.
And you see the darkness andthe saturation in that wood and
what that's going to do overtime, left unchecked, is it's
absolutely going to start eatingthrough that wood.
Michael Church (07:13):
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
So you know, one of the thingspeople will ask me is should
they have their crawl spacetested for mold?
And you know you can do that ifyou want to.
But whether it's wood rotfungus or aspergillus
penicillium cladosporium, itdoesn't really matter.
If you, as a homeowner, want todo a test and pay someone to
(07:33):
test it and see what type it isGreat, but for us we don't
really need that, right, james?
James Derry (07:39):
No, and there's really not a lot of need to it.
Number one if it's mold, it'smold and, as you said, we're
equal opportunity when it comesto killing, so we will kill it
all.
Doesn't matter what you'redoing with chatter on stack.
He doesn't really matter whatyou're dealing with.
We're going to kill it all.
So I personally do not believethat you need to have them
(07:59):
tested.
Do you know?
It's mold.
I've never seen a mold on woodor sticking to your house.
That is a good thing in any wayshape or form.
Michael Church (08:02):
Yeah, and just so you know you DIYers out there
, if you do want to test it, wedo have the DIY test kit where
it's a surface sample, where youcan pull a swab out of our kit.
You can swab the area, send itoff to a lab.
They'll tell you exactly whattype of mold it is.
In a crawl space you usuallydon't want to do air samples
(08:22):
because it's not considered aliving space.
So surface samples is typicallywhat we would do in a crawl
space.
So let's keep going a littlebit here.
James, what did the homeownerget recommended that we do here?
James Derry (08:34):
If there's mold, we soda blast.
If you're going a little bithere, james, what did the
homeowner get recommended thatwe do here?
If there's mold, we soda blast.
If you're going to treat a tree, there is no sense in going
halfway and going down there andspraying it with a spray that
is absolutely not going to getit all the way off there.
It may kill the surface moldthat you have there, but I
promise there's something alive.
We need to get it off.
First thing that we recommendedwe need to get the debris
cleaned out of there, becausethere's a lot of it.
One of the next major things weneed to do is we need to get
(08:56):
all that insulation out.
A couple of reasons why we wantthe insulation out.
Insulation carries moisture andit's not really something any
other homeowner would reallywant setting against their wood.
So we want to get that out ofthere.
Plus, we want to be able to airseal that floor so that we can
try to keep as much of this sodaout of your house as possible.
I'd love to tell you that we'regoing to keep every ounce of it
out of there, but that would bea myth.
We'll do our best and we makesure that we're sealing things
(09:19):
and that we're watching thingswhile we're in the house to make
sure it's not coming up as well.
So that's a couple of majorthings we're going to get
started first, and then the Thenwe want to go ahead and start
soda blasting.
So I mean to go into a littlebit of what we would do to soda
blast.
It's literally sandblastingyour joist and your wood with
(09:41):
soda and we will peel off thatmold off of there.
From there, what we recommendis to get into treating it with
an actual cleaner and then witha sealer.
Michael Church (09:49):
That's right, one of the things that well,
there's many things thatseparate us from our competition
.
But, as you mentioned before,you know pulling that insulation
out from between the joists sothat that wood can dry.
That wood has to get dry.
You know, we're going to put adehumidifier in there for a
little bit let that wood getdried out.
We're going to air seal, likeyou were talking about, and we
(10:10):
leave the air seal of thesubfloor in place, so it
actually makes your home moreenergy efficient.
Our mold treatment makes yourhome more energy efficient
because we're air sealing thesubfloor.
Now, that baking soda you'retalking about, that is probably
the greenest mold remediationproduct on the face of the
planet.
It's sodium bicarbonate, it'sin your alkaline water, it's in
(10:31):
your Tums, it's in your antacids.
With enough of it, it's even inyour laxatives, right.
So it's a food grade,digestible product.
But, like you said, it's underhigh pressure, high PSI, so
sometimes it will get into thehouse, but even if it does, it's
not that big of a deal.
It's easily cleaned up.
Now tell us you mentioned aprotective.
(10:52):
Tell us the important after allthe mold's gone.
Tell us the important of theprotectant that you're talking
about.
Why is that a big deal?
James Derry (10:57):
Number one.
A protectant is going to sealthat wood to protect it against
moisture, so what we're actuallylooking to do is to try to keep
that wood dry.
The protectant also enhancesyour warranty with Crawl Space
Ninja as well.
So, there's two different typesof protectants there's an
encapsulation and then there's asealant.
We actually use a sealantinstead of an encapsulant,
because an encapsulant isbasically a paint which
(11:18):
encapsulates everything insideof there, versus just sealing it
against the actual mold, yeah,and for the homeowner.
Michael Church (11:24):
Basically, what we're looking at is a penetrant.
You know protects the wood fromthe inside out.
An encapsulant is basicallyjust a sealant on the outside of
the wood and of course we gotthe dehumidifier installed, but
unfortunately it's a mechanicaldevice.
So you know, there is a chancefor that dehumidifier to fail
and it's nice to have thatprotectant on there in case that
(11:45):
dehumidifier fails.
And I always like to think ofit this way If I built a deck on
my house, I need to treat thatdeck with something.
I need to paint it.
You know you could paint it oryou could stain it.
So what we're looking at ismore like the stain.
We're protecting it from theinside out versus the paint.
So just to give that aperspective, keep going with us,
james.
What else are we going to dohere?
James Derry (12:05):
With the encapsulation we are going to be
putting a dehumidifier in.
We actually put twodehumidifiers in this house, two
E80s.
Because of the size.
This one was absolutely apre-dry.
The floor joist wood moisturewas 18%, foundation wall
moisture was 98% on this one.
So we would absolutely come outseven to 14 days prior to doing
the work place a dehumidifier,seal the vents to start getting
(12:25):
this pre-dry.
Once we were done doing all theremediation, from that point we
would go in and startencapsulating it.
This one.
We did put two AVS fans in.
One of them was a whisper fan.
We did remove air seal and wedid all the rim joist insulation
as well.
Michael Church (12:40):
Yeah, and two things real quick.
Number one, if you don't knowwhat the aviation fan is
designed for, according to theEPA Indoor Air Plus program,
they recommend that youshouldn't completely seal a
crawl space.
You should have some type ofnegative air blowing out a
sealed crawl space, so that wayyou're putting the crawl space
under negative pressure in caseyou have soil gases or radon.
I've done a ton of videos aboutthat if you want to look into
(13:02):
that.
But secondly, james, we sawthat there was foundation wall
moisture, but this homeownerchose not to do a waterproofing
and we did recommend one.
But I just want to, if youdon't mind, tell people why
waterproofing is important.
Whenever you've got that 90plus percent on that foundation
wall, why is it so important tomake sure you invest in that
(13:22):
waterproofing?
James Derry (13:24):
When you're running at 98 percent moisture on that
exterior foundation wall, whatthat tells us is that there's a
lot of water setting up againstyour exterior foundation, it
becomes a very hard situation.
So if you've got water comingin plus the fact that water is
one of the most damagingelements we have, water gets
through where it wants to getthrough.
I can talk about waterproofingall day long, but what I
(13:44):
actually do is manage water.
I move water from one place toanother where I want it to go.
You don't want it on yourfoundation.
You don't want it sittinginside your house because it is
going to erode the soilunderneath and you are going to
end up with foundation problems.
Encapsulation is notinexpensive.
Foundation repair is expensive.
In comparison, it is veryexpensive.
Michael Church (14:04):
Well, not only that, but if, for some reason,
that he chose not to waterproof,and there's enough water that
gets in there to float thatplastic or to get mud on top of
that plastic, well, now we'vegot a whole different scenario.
We've got to go in there andrip the plastic out and then
waterproof it, and then he's gotto pay to get new plastic
installed.
So it's one of those you knowscenarios where you may have 10
(14:26):
years of no issue and then weget one of those 100-year rains
which we seem to get now everytwo or three years now, for some
reason, and then it floods thecrawl space.
So if you're looking to have aworry-free crawl space.
That's really what we're tryingto do, but, at the same time,
we can't make a homeowner buysomething they don't want to buy
.
That's really what we're tryingto do, but, at the same time,
we can't make a homeowner buysomething they don't want to buy
(14:48):
.
So all we can do is recommendand in this scenario, we
recommended the interiorwaterproofing system or the
water management system, likeJames is talking about, where
we're managing the water, butthey chose not to do that.
So if this is your house, thisis your forever home, you might
want to invest in that watermanagement system on top of the
encapsulation.
So very good, james.
Well, recently, this was back in20, when was this?
(15:11):
2023, I think when we did thisjob no 2024.
And then recently he had uscome out.
I don't know if you saw that wesent somebody else out there to
inspect and they had us putsome floor jacks in.
Whenever you have wet wood andyou dry it out, that day, wood
starts to shrink a little bit.
Very true, and you could havesome settling or whatever
(15:32):
because you know whenever homesare built, they're built wet.
The wood's wet when they'rebuilt, you know.
So if you built a home 20 yearsago, it takes a long time for
that home to dry out, especiallygiven the seasons of, you know,
rain and everything else.
So whenever you have aconditioned crawl space, that
means the crawl space is dry allthe time.
The wood doesn't fluctuate likea open or vented crawl space.
(15:52):
So I'm wondering if it would beeither the soil, water, which
is a great point that youbrought up, or maybe the wood
dried out.
So, but regardless, you alwayswant to put post checks in after
you encapsulate the crawl space, because you want to make sure
that everything's dry before youstart putting those in, and
I've done a lot of videos aboutthat too.
So anything to add to this one,james, that you want to talk
(16:13):
about.
James Derry (16:14):
The gentleman's been with us for quite some time
.
He's he's serviced it with ussince he, since he put the
system in.
Michael Church (16:25):
Yep, tell us about the maintenance that
somebody may want to do wheneverthey get their crawl space
encapsulated.
James Derry (16:27):
So one of the number one things I see when I
go back to people's houses ifthey're having a problem is that
their dehu has not beenmaintenance, has not been
serviced.
The condensate pump has neverbeen cleaned out.
So what happens is those rubberlines coming out of it that are
feeding the water out end upclogged and they get hardened
and water nothing else is goingto pass through them.
(16:47):
The condensate pump quitsworking.
The dehumidifier starts dumpingthe water out on the floor.
Eventually that starts backingup to where it goes back into
the dehumidifier and next thingyou know we get the phone call
my dehumidifier is not working.
Dehumidifiers are pieces ofmechanical equipment.
It's just like a furnace inyour home.
(17:08):
They require service Every sixmonths, they require a filter
change and they require pantryput into our actual condensate
pump.
What that does is that pantryactually cleans everything out
of that condensate pump andflushes it through as it flushes
out, so it keeps those linesclean.
It keeps them fresh so that thewater continues to move freely
through there.
It also keeps that water frombacking up into the dehumidifier
(17:30):
.
Obviously, a filter I mean adirty filter means you get less
airflow.
Less airflow in time is goingto absolutely break the machine.
When we buy a car, we maintainyou spend $20,000 on a car and
you put it through maintenance,you change the wood.
You spend $20,000 on your crawlspace.
We forget about it.
Got to maintain it.
Michael Church (17:46):
Yeah, I think it's a good point.
The homeowner can, of course,maintenance it themselves, sure,
but if they get on Crawl SpaceNinja's maintenance program, not
only do we take care of it forthem so they don't have to go in
the crawl space, we're going todo a corner-to-corner
inspection and we extend thewarranty of the dehumidifier and
the sump pump or whatever it is.
(18:07):
We're main hits down there soyou can have a lifetime
dehumidifier warranty on ourcrawlspace maintenance program.
Imagine if you bought a car andwhen you took it to the
dealership and you paid them tochange the oil and they gave you
a lifetime warranty on the car.
I don't think people would beselling their cars if they had a
lifetime warranty on the carvery often.
(18:27):
So anyway, it's a great programthat we have and, like you said
, that filter, if you don'tchange it out, it's like sucking
peanut butter through a straweventually, and that
dehumidifier fan will blow, willmess up, just like your HVAC
fan.
If you leave that furnacefilter in there and it starts to
cave in because you've notchanged it, that HVAC fan can
(18:48):
burn up and the dehumidifier fancan burn up.
So great information, james.
I appreciate you sharing that.
James Derry (18:54):
Absolutely Well.
I mean, and like you said, withthat lifetime warranty, I mean,
where else are you going tofind somebody that's going to
warranty a police equipment thatwe know is going to eventually
have to be replaced?
Michael Church (19:04):
Yeah, it's a great warranty, I tell you so,
all right, well, I guess that'sall we got to say about this job
.
James, I'm Michael Church withCrawl Space Ninja, here with
James Derry, and we hope youmake it a happy and blessed day
and we'll see you later.
All right, james , I appreciate you joining me on
this call and this is JamesDerry.
He is our branch manager andall things Ninja of Lafayette
Georgia.
So I appreciate you being onhere, james, and, speaking of
Lafayette Georgia, tell us whendid we open up and what areas
are you serving down there?
Real quick for anybody watching.
James Derry (00:18):
We originally opened up at beginning of
October.
We service just below Marietta,up into Cleveland, saudi Daisy
area and the southern sectionsof Tennessee.
Michael Church (00:29):
So you guys are a little bit Chattanooga, even
creeping into some parts ofeastern Alabama based out of
Lafayette, georgia.
So if you're in those areas ofNorth Georgia and need some help
from Crawl Space Ninja.
We're heavy into foundationrepair based on waterproofing.
Tell us a little bit about thatas well, if you don't mind.
James Derry (00:48):
We do helical underpinning.
We do do some resistance piersDepends on what your house is
and what we're dealing with.
We also do carbon fiber straps,which are quite a bit stronger
than actual steel.
Helps us to be able tostabilize a bowing wall.
We do soil anchors to pull awall back or be able to
stabilize that wall from beingable to bow in or shear.
A lot of exciting things in thefoundation field, Really a
(01:08):
place that I really myself liketo call home.
Michael Church (01:15):
I enjoy foundation work tremendously
Very good.
Well, we're going to walkthrough an inspection that we
did and we're going to call thishomeowner Tom, and basically
James is going to take usthrough what the inspection was
like, what some of the issuesthat was found there.
We thought it'd be really nicefor you, as viewers, to see
exactly what it is we're lookingfor, and then we got some after
photos that we'll post.
So, james, if you don't mind,take us through this home for
(01:35):
Tom, what all was found and whatthe recommended repairs were.
James Derry (01:39):
We were actually called out for water intrusion,
mold, fungal growth, things likethat.
So one of the first things welike to do is talk with the
customer and get the customer'spoint of view of what's going on
and what they're experiencing.
But then we like to be able toget underneath there and take a
look at things so you'll noticewhere they've got the hybrometer
out.
We're looking to find out whatthat relative humidity is.
As we all have learned throughwatching Mr Church's videos is
(02:02):
that humidity absolutely matters.
It can drive.
The higher the moisture, thehigher the chance for that
fungal growth.
That fungal growth can cause alot of different problems, ie it
can cause wood damage, healthproblems, a lot of different
issues.
One thing that we're lookingfor are the dropped insulation
that we're looking at.
You're looking at a lot ofinsulation that's dropping or
hanging down over the time.
(02:22):
A lot of things can make lintinsulation do that.
One, just not hung correctly.
Two too much moisture makesthem too heavy.
That'll cause them to drop Agedeterioration.
In this situation like this,where you can start to see
fungal growth, if you lookaround the blocking you can
actually see where there'sgotten some moisture to.
That you see how you see thedifferent colors in that
(02:44):
blocking.
Michael Church (02:44):
You're talking about on the foundation wall.
Is that correct?
James Derry (02:47):
Yes, sir on that foundation wall.
So we're looking at an areaobviously that's got very high
humidity.
We're at 62% 63% humidity inthat crawl space.
We're looking at an area wherewe've got insulation failing all
the way around us.
You're looking at a situationwhere you can obviously see that
there's been moisture in thiscrawl space.
Just looking at the lines onthe cinder block wall, you see
(03:10):
the white crusting that's comingthrough there.
That's always good signs thatwe've had moisture Can.
Michael Church (03:16):
I interrupt you just for one second, James.
I think that's a great pointyou're making here.
You know, the homeowner may ormay not have a hygrometer, they
may not, you know, evenphysically be able to get into
the crawl space.
But if you've got a decentenough flashlight, you can shine
to the back of that crawl spaceand you can start to see that
discoloration on the foundationwalls, the efflorescence, the
(03:36):
insulation falling out from thejoists.
Those are all signs of moistureproblems.
So you can call us out toverify, of moisture problems.
So you can call us out toverify.
But if you see these things inyour crawl space, you should
start being suspect that there'ssomething going on down there
and maybe have a professionaltake a look at it.
Right?
Would you say that, James?
James Derry (03:53):
Oh, absolutely without a doubt.
These are always signs to lookfor.
The musky smells that you getinside of your home.
Those are excellent signs.
You have to remember thateverything that you're smelling
inside of your home, a goodportion of that, is coming from
underneath your house.
When we turn on that AC system,we're going to suck what's in
that crawl space right up intoour homes.
Michael Church (04:13):
Yeah, and you know that brings up another good
point.
I don't know who has a bettersense of smell, you or your wife
, but in my house my wife has away better sense of smell, and
who even has a better sense ofsmell than both of us is our
mother-in-law.
So if you want to know reallywhat your house smells like,
call your mother-in-law, youknow, have her come out and take
(04:35):
a smell and I'm sure she'll bemore than happy to share her
opinion on what your housesmells like.
So anyway, that's a really goodpoint.
You know, and I always talkabout this in our videos a dry
dog smells better than a wet dog.
I always talk about this in ourvideos A dry dog smells better
than a wet dog.
A dry house smells better thana wet house.
So, just by lowering humidity,getting that crawl space or
basement if you've got a floodedbasement, anything like that,
(04:55):
that you've got going on anytype of moisture.
A garage If you keep yourgarage door open and you've got
a bonus room over your garage,like today it's raining and has
been raining for almost 15 hours.
So the saturation it's humidoutside.
If you got your garage doorcracked, it's humid in your
garage.
The rest of your house isgetting humid.
So we got to control thismoisture and it will control
(05:17):
odor.
So sorry about interrupting you, james, go ahead and go forth.
Hey there, michael Church,founder of Crawl Space Ninja.
Do you have a crawl space or abasement, or perhaps your home
is suffering from some type ofindoor air quality issue.
I want to encourage you tocheck out my book Crawl Space
Repair Myths Busted, availableon Amazon.
(05:38):
This is a great book for anyhomeowner that is concerned
about indoor air quality, mold,moisture, whether you're on a
crawl space or a basement or aslab built house.
This is a great book, greatinformation.
I encourage you to check it outAgain.
The name of the book is CrawlSpace Repair Myths Busted, now
available on Amazon.
James Derry (05:58):
I think those are great points.
I mean you can explore thatwith almost any structure that
you're in, whether it be a slabset house or a crawl space house
, those humidity levels matter.
My upstairs humidity iscompletely different than my
downstairs humidity, so allthose things matter and it
matters in any home that you'rein.
So, yeah, you're absolutelygoing to pull that stuff through
, no matter where you are Allright, very good.
Michael Church (06:18):
Well, let's get into the mold Now.
I used to shoot shotguns when Iwas younger and that mold looks
like somebody shot birdshot atthe wood.
You see that picture rightthere.
It looks really funky on thatpiece of wood, wouldn't you say
yeah, it almost looks likepeppering on there.
James Derry (06:33):
Yeah, and it is one of the main ones that we're
looking for.
We're looking for that.
We're looking for the whitecoatings, the white sheens, as
you see in 1.2.3 and 1.2.4.
Michael Church (06:43):
as you see in 1.2.3 and 1.2.4.
And then you go down to 1.1.1and look at that gray.
It's a totally different typeof mold.
It's like completely saturatedthat piece of wood.
It's crazy how different moldsare.
James Derry (06:58):
Well, and then you go to and you step down even one
more to the 1.1.2.
And you see the darkness andthe saturation in that wood and
what that's going to do overtime, left unchecked, is it's
absolutely going to start eatingthrough that wood.
Michael Church (07:13):
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
So you know, one of the thingspeople will ask me is should
they have their crawl spacetested for mold?
And you know you can do that ifyou want to.
But whether it's wood rotfungus or aspergillus
penicillium cladosporium, itdoesn't really matter.
If you, as a homeowner, want todo a test and pay someone to
(07:33):
test it and see what type it isGreat, but for us we don't
really need that, right, james?
James Derry (07:39):
No, and there's really not a lot of need to it.
Number one if it's mold, it'smold and, as you said, we're
equal opportunity when it comesto killing, so we will kill it
all.
Doesn't matter what you'redoing with chatter on stack.
He doesn't really matter whatyou're dealing with.
We're going to kill it all.
So I personally do not believethat you need to have them
(07:59):
tested.
Do you know?
It's mold.
I've never seen a mold on woodor sticking to your house.
That is a good thing in any wayshape or form.
Michael Church (08:02):
Yeah, and just so you know you DIYers out there
, if you do want to test it, wedo have the DIY test kit where
it's a surface sample, where youcan pull a swab out of our kit.
You can swab the area, send itoff to a lab.
They'll tell you exactly whattype of mold it is.
In a crawl space you usuallydon't want to do air samples
(08:22):
because it's not considered aliving space.
So surface samples is typicallywhat we would do in a crawl
space.
So let's keep going a littlebit here.
James, what did the homeownerget recommended that we do here?
James Derry (08:34):
If there's mold, we soda blast.
If you're going a little bithere, james, what did the
homeowner get recommended thatwe do here?
If there's mold, we soda blast.
If you're going to treat a tree, there is no sense in going
halfway and going down there andspraying it with a spray that
is absolutely not going to getit all the way off there.
It may kill the surface moldthat you have there, but I
promise there's something alive.
We need to get it off.
First thing that we recommendedwe need to get the debris
cleaned out of there, becausethere's a lot of it.
One of the next major things weneed to do is we need to get
(08:56):
all that insulation out.
A couple of reasons why we wantthe insulation out.
Insulation carries moisture andit's not really something any
other homeowner would reallywant setting against their wood.
So we want to get that out ofthere.
Plus, we want to be able to airseal that floor so that we can
try to keep as much of this sodaout of your house as possible.
I'd love to tell you that we'regoing to keep every ounce of it
out of there, but that would bea myth.
We'll do our best and we makesure that we're sealing things
(09:19):
and that we're watching thingswhile we're in the house to make
sure it's not coming up as well.
So that's a couple of majorthings we're going to get
started first, and then the Thenwe want to go ahead and start
soda blasting.
So I mean to go into a littlebit of what we would do to soda
blast.
It's literally sandblastingyour joist and your wood with
(09:41):
soda and we will peel off thatmold off of there.
From there, what we recommendis to get into treating it with
an actual cleaner and then witha sealer.
Michael Church (09:49):
That's right, one of the things that well,
there's many things thatseparate us from our competition
.
But, as you mentioned before,you know pulling that insulation
out from between the joists sothat that wood can dry.
That wood has to get dry.
You know, we're going to put adehumidifier in there for a
little bit let that wood getdried out.
We're going to air seal, likeyou were talking about, and we
(10:10):
leave the air seal of thesubfloor in place, so it
actually makes your home moreenergy efficient.
Our mold treatment makes yourhome more energy efficient
because we're air sealing thesubfloor.
Now, that baking soda you'retalking about, that is probably
the greenest mold remediationproduct on the face of the
planet.
It's sodium bicarbonate, it'sin your alkaline water, it's in
(10:31):
your Tums, it's in your antacids.
With enough of it, it's even inyour laxatives, right.
So it's a food grade,digestible product.
But, like you said, it's underhigh pressure, high PSI, so
sometimes it will get into thehouse, but even if it does, it's
not that big of a deal.
It's easily cleaned up.
Now tell us you mentioned aprotective.
(10:52):
Tell us the important after allthe mold's gone.
Tell us the important of theprotectant that you're talking
about.
Why is that a big deal?
James Derry (10:57):
Number one.
A protectant is going to sealthat wood to protect it against
moisture, so what we're actuallylooking to do is to try to keep
that wood dry.
The protectant also enhancesyour warranty with Crawl Space
Ninja as well.
So, there's two different typesof protectants there's an
encapsulation and then there's asealant.
We actually use a sealantinstead of an encapsulant,
because an encapsulant isbasically a paint which
(11:18):
encapsulates everything insideof there, versus just sealing it
against the actual mold, yeah,and for the homeowner.
Michael Church (11:24):
Basically, what we're looking at is a penetrant.
You know protects the wood fromthe inside out.
An encapsulant is basicallyjust a sealant on the outside of
the wood and of course we gotthe dehumidifier installed, but
unfortunately it's a mechanicaldevice.
So you know, there is a chancefor that dehumidifier to fail
and it's nice to have thatprotectant on there in case that
(11:45):
dehumidifier fails.
And I always like to think ofit this way If I built a deck on
my house, I need to treat thatdeck with something.
I need to paint it.
You know you could paint it oryou could stain it.
So what we're looking at ismore like the stain.
We're protecting it from theinside out versus the paint.
So just to give that aperspective, keep going with us,
james.
What else are we going to dohere?
James Derry (12:05):
With the encapsulation we are going to be
putting a dehumidifier in.
We actually put twodehumidifiers in this house, two
E80s.
Because of the size.
This one was absolutely apre-dry.
The floor joist wood moisturewas 18%, foundation wall
moisture was 98% on this one.
So we would absolutely come outseven to 14 days prior to doing
the work place a dehumidifier,seal the vents to start getting
(12:25):
this pre-dry.
Once we were done doing all theremediation, from that point we
would go in and startencapsulating it.
This one.
We did put two AVS fans in.
One of them was a whisper fan.
We did remove air seal and wedid all the rim joist insulation
as well.
Michael Church (12:40):
Yeah, and two things real quick.
Number one, if you don't knowwhat the aviation fan is
designed for, according to theEPA Indoor Air Plus program,
they recommend that youshouldn't completely seal a
crawl space.
You should have some type ofnegative air blowing out a
sealed crawl space, so that wayyou're putting the crawl space
under negative pressure in caseyou have soil gases or radon.
I've done a ton of videos aboutthat if you want to look into
(13:02):
that.
But secondly, james, we sawthat there was foundation wall
moisture, but this homeownerchose not to do a waterproofing
and we did recommend one.
But I just want to, if youdon't mind, tell people why
waterproofing is important.
Whenever you've got that 90plus percent on that foundation
wall, why is it so important tomake sure you invest in that
(13:22):
waterproofing?
James Derry (13:24):
When you're running at 98 percent moisture on that
exterior foundation wall, whatthat tells us is that there's a
lot of water setting up againstyour exterior foundation, it
becomes a very hard situation.
So if you've got water comingin plus the fact that water is
one of the most damagingelements we have, water gets
through where it wants to getthrough.
I can talk about waterproofingall day long, but what I
(13:44):
actually do is manage water.
I move water from one place toanother where I want it to go.
You don't want it on yourfoundation.
You don't want it sittinginside your house because it is
going to erode the soilunderneath and you are going to
end up with foundation problems.
Encapsulation is notinexpensive.
Foundation repair is expensive.
In comparison, it is veryexpensive.
Michael Church (14:04):
Well, not only that, but if, for some reason,
that he chose not to waterproof,and there's enough water that
gets in there to float thatplastic or to get mud on top of
that plastic, well, now we'vegot a whole different scenario.
We've got to go in there andrip the plastic out and then
waterproof it, and then he's gotto pay to get new plastic
installed.
So it's one of those you knowscenarios where you may have 10
(14:26):
years of no issue and then weget one of those 100-year rains
which we seem to get now everytwo or three years now, for some
reason, and then it floods thecrawl space.
So if you're looking to have aworry-free crawl space.
That's really what we're tryingto do, but, at the same time,
we can't make a homeowner buysomething they don't want to buy
.
That's really what we're tryingto do, but, at the same time,
we can't make a homeowner buysomething they don't want to buy
(14:48):
.
So all we can do is recommendand in this scenario, we
recommended the interiorwaterproofing system or the
water management system, likeJames is talking about, where
we're managing the water, butthey chose not to do that.
So if this is your house, thisis your forever home, you might
want to invest in that watermanagement system on top of the
encapsulation.
So very good, james.
Well, recently, this was back in20, when was this?
(15:11):
2023, I think when we did thisjob no 2024.
And then recently he had uscome out.
I don't know if you saw that wesent somebody else out there to
inspect and they had us putsome floor jacks in.
Whenever you have wet wood andyou dry it out, that day, wood
starts to shrink a little bit.
Very true, and you could havesome settling or whatever
(15:32):
because you know whenever homesare built, they're built wet.
The wood's wet when they'rebuilt, you know.
So if you built a home 20 yearsago, it takes a long time for
that home to dry out, especiallygiven the seasons of, you know,
rain and everything else.
So whenever you have aconditioned crawl space, that
means the crawl space is dry allthe time.
The wood doesn't fluctuate likea open or vented crawl space.
(15:52):
So I'm wondering if it would beeither the soil, water, which
is a great point that youbrought up, or maybe the wood
dried out.
So, but regardless, you alwayswant to put post checks in after
you encapsulate the crawl space, because you want to make sure
that everything's dry before youstart putting those in, and
I've done a lot of videos aboutthat too.
So anything to add to this one,james, that you want to talk
(16:13):
about.
James Derry (16:14):
The gentleman's been with us for quite some time
.
He's he's serviced it with ussince he, since he put the
system in.
Michael Church (16:25):
Yep, tell us about the maintenance that
somebody may want to do wheneverthey get their crawl space
encapsulated.
James Derry (16:27):
So one of the number one things I see when I
go back to people's houses ifthey're having a problem is that
their dehu has not beenmaintenance, has not been
serviced.
The condensate pump has neverbeen cleaned out.
So what happens is those rubberlines coming out of it that are
feeding the water out end upclogged and they get hardened
and water nothing else is goingto pass through them.
(16:47):
The condensate pump quitsworking.
The dehumidifier starts dumpingthe water out on the floor.
Eventually that starts backingup to where it goes back into
the dehumidifier and next thingyou know we get the phone call
my dehumidifier is not working.
Dehumidifiers are pieces ofmechanical equipment.
It's just like a furnace inyour home.
(17:08):
They require service Every sixmonths, they require a filter
change and they require pantryput into our actual condensate
pump.
What that does is that pantryactually cleans everything out
of that condensate pump andflushes it through as it flushes
out, so it keeps those linesclean.
It keeps them fresh so that thewater continues to move freely
through there.
It also keeps that water frombacking up into the dehumidifier
(17:30):
.
Obviously, a filter I mean adirty filter means you get less
airflow.
Less airflow in time is goingto absolutely break the machine.
When we buy a car, we maintainyou spend $20,000 on a car and
you put it through maintenance,you change the wood.
You spend $20,000 on your crawlspace.
We forget about it.
Got to maintain it.
Michael Church (17:46):
Yeah, I think it's a good point.
The homeowner can, of course,maintenance it themselves, sure,
but if they get on Crawl SpaceNinja's maintenance program, not
only do we take care of it forthem so they don't have to go in
the crawl space, we're going todo a corner-to-corner
inspection and we extend thewarranty of the dehumidifier and
the sump pump or whatever it is.
(18:07):
We're main hits down there soyou can have a lifetime
dehumidifier warranty on ourcrawlspace maintenance program.
Imagine if you bought a car andwhen you took it to the
dealership and you paid them tochange the oil and they gave you
a lifetime warranty on the car.
I don't think people would beselling their cars if they had a
lifetime warranty on the carvery often.
(18:27):
So anyway, it's a great programthat we have and, like you said
, that filter, if you don'tchange it out, it's like sucking
peanut butter through a straweventually, and that
dehumidifier fan will blow, willmess up, just like your HVAC
fan.
If you leave that furnacefilter in there and it starts to
cave in because you've notchanged it, that HVAC fan can
(18:48):
burn up and the dehumidifier fancan burn up.
So great information, james.
I appreciate you sharing that.
James Derry (18:54):
Absolutely Well.
I mean, and like you said, withthat lifetime warranty, I mean,
where else are you going tofind somebody that's going to
warranty a police equipment thatwe know is going to eventually
have to be replaced?
Michael Church (19:04):
Yeah, it's a great warranty, I tell you so,
all right, well, I guess that'sall we got to say about this job
.
James, I'm Michael Church withCrawl Space Ninja, here with
James Derry, and we hope youmake it a happy and blessed day
and we'll see you later.
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