April 30, 2025 • 49 mins
Get ready to dive into a chat with the ever-charismatic Paul Cram! This episode kicks off with some juicy insights straight from Paul, who’s not just your average actor but also a voracious reader and the mastermind behind the Men Who Read book club. We dig into the ups and downs of creativity, tackling everything from that pesky inner critic to the importance of just getting in there and doing the work—because hey, even a four-year-old on a sugar rush can create something beautiful! We also explore how art can be a powerful tool for healing, especially after personal hardships. So, whether you’re an actor, a painter, or just someone trying to unleash your creative spirit, this convo is packed with nuggets of wisdom and a sprinkle of humor to keep it light. Tune in and let’s get artsy!
Bio
Based in the Twin Cities, Paul has graced both local and national screens, sharing scenes with talents like Woody Harrelson, Cillian Murphy, and Susan Sarandon. Beyond the camera, he's a voracious reader and founder of the "Men-Who-Read" book club, boasting over 85 members since its inception in 2019. When not acting or reading, Paul indulges in gardening, Queer sports, and enjoying pop-culture movies and shows.
Links
Takeaways:
- In this episode, Paul Cram shares how creativity can be a transformative tool for healing, especially during tough times in life.
- We dive into the importance of pushing through creative blocks, comparing artists' struggles to a plumber's work ethic, reminding us that creativity is a practice, not a luxury.
- Timothy and Paul chat about how collaboration in the arts is like a dance, where each partner brings their flair while respecting the other's moves.
- Paul reflects on his diverse artistic pursuits, emphasizing the joy of being a creative spirit in multiple disciplines without needing to choose just one.
- The duo jokes about the pressure of perfectionism, suggesting that embracing our inner child and creating art, even if it looks like a four-year-old's work, is what truly matters.
- They discuss the role of directors in the creative process and how good communication can lead to amazing artistic outcomes, making it a team effort rather than a battle.
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Reach Out To The Podcast
To reach out to me, email timothy@createartpodcast.com I would love to hear about your journey and what you are working on. If you would like to be on the show or have me discuss a topic that is giving you trouble write in and let's start that conversation.
- Email: timothy@createartpodcast.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Create Art Podcast interviewPaul Cram. Hello, friend. This is
Timothy Keem O'Brien, yourhead instigator for Create Art Podcast,
where I bring my over 30 yearsof experience in the arts and education
world to help you tame yourinner critic and create more than
(00:28):
you consume. In this episode,I'm going to be speaking with Paul
Cram. Now, he's based in theTwin Cities of Minnesota, and he
has graced both local andnational screens, sharing scenes
with talents like WoodyHarrelson, Cillian Murphy, and Susan
Sarandon. Beyond the camera,he's a voracious reader and founder
(00:50):
of the Men who Read book club,boasting over 85 members since its
inception in 2019. Now, whenhe's not acting or reading, Paul
indulges in gardening, queersports, and enjoying pop culture,
movies and shows. It was sucha delight to talk with Paul. He's.
He's, you know, he does theacting thing. And as you know me,
(01:13):
I have a degree in theater, soit was, it was a great conversation
that we had. You know, actingis kind of a. I'm not an actor like
Paul is. I'm just going tostay. State that right there for
you. But a lot of the insightsthat he shares with us with acting,
(01:33):
I think we can apply to ourartistic practice no matter what
we do. So I'm going to stepback and play for you the interview
that I had with Paul Cram.Okay. And we're live. All right,
everyone, thank you forjoining us here on Create Art Podcast.
I have the privilege of havingPaul on the show here tonight. Paul,
(01:56):
how is it up there in the TwinCities for you tonight?
It's good. It's good. Youknow, we're kind of in that really
interesting in between stagebetween winter and spring. So, like,
some days there's snow on theground and the next day we're all
wearing shorts, and then we'rewearing, you know, our parka. I don't
know, it just. Every day is alittle different, but it's. It's
(02:18):
going well.
Awesome. Awesome. Yeah, it'sthat, you know, wait five minutes,
the weather will change forsure. Sure.
Exactly. Yeah.
Well, I wanted to get rightinto the questions here for you.
First one I have up here isit's going to be a little bit odd,
but I think you might like it.
If I can roll with that.Maybe. We'll see.
(02:38):
If you don't, we can edit it.
If we don't, we don't.
But if creativity were aphysical place, what would yours
look like?
If creativity were A physicalplace. What would it look like?
Hmm.
I think it would look like,gosh, you know, what's coming in
(03:04):
my head is more of like aworkshop, kind of like a work where
you actually have all thetools that you need to create. So
I feel like that's the spacethat I'm imagining, like, where it's
like, this is the place tomake things. That's what it would.
A nice, warm workshop that hasall the tools needed to create. I
(03:25):
keep getting visuals of, like,painting that kind of a vibe. So
that's what it would look liketo me.
Awesome. Awesome. And with alot of coffee there too. I would
have to have that there.
I actually. I've been told notto drink coffee by people that have.
I feel like I have a lot ofenergy in general, and I might be
(03:47):
that guy that. Yeah, it wouldbe interesting. I think I'd come
out with, like, some artthat's very, like, Jackson Pollock
esque or something.
All right, well, then we'rejust gonna pop over to your studio
and drink some coffee and makesome art.
Drink some coffee and dosomething with it.
I love it. I love it.Something we talk a lot about here
on Korean Art Podcast is, youknow, being creatively blocked or
(04:10):
having that writer's block oractor's block. I'm not a huge fan
of that idea. I kind of takeSeth Godin's view of, you know, a
plumber doesn't have plumber'sblock. They have plumbers crack,
but not plumber's block. Buthave you had times where you felt
(04:30):
creatively blocked, and how doyou overcome that?
There's a lot of time. I mean,I. We're talking about a lot of different.
Different artisticdisciplines. You know, I'm as. As
an actor, I guess I. Because Ido also do, like, I write a little
bit. I do a little bit ofvisual art. You know, even in my
(04:52):
day to day. In my. My day today job, as I work a lot in marketing,
which is very visual, there'stimes when maybe I don't feel as
creative or I don't have asmany ideas, and that's kind of. I
think maybe what we're kind ofdriving at a little bit. But as far
as, like, even as an actor,the. The way in which I guess I would
(05:20):
show up has a lot to do with.I feel like acting can be a hard
one because there's so muchcreativity that's already been pumped
in, especially with ideas andthings like that. Like when I show
up on set, when I'M working,the writer's already written and
kind of given a framework towhat's being done. But there's, there's,
(05:41):
there's something actuallyI've been working on a lot lately
for myself with within, likemy technique of performing as an
actor. And it's finding those.I feel like a good actor like myself,
like, it is finding thoseideas or inspirations within the
framework that already exists.So if I was tapped out and I was,
(06:04):
I think a big thing for me islike, if I'm tired, I have a really
hard time bringing it.Bringing. So I feel like a lot of
things, like if I'm tappedout, if I'm not feeling like I'm
creative, it's like, then putthe proverbial brush down for a moment
and take a walk in nature.Take a nap, take, take a vacation.
(06:28):
Do something maybe to get mybrain working in it. Maybe not even
working, but just like doingsomething different. But I'm also
a big proponent and big fanand you could tell me if you are
as well. I'm a big fan also.Where it's like, you know what, sometimes
it's, it's numbers over. Like,I might not feel like I'm doing something
that's the most amazing, butthen it's like, actually, you know
(06:50):
what, that was pretty good.And like, I, that inner critic can
really turn off sometimes.Where it's like, actually, I just
need to do this. I just, I'mgoing to put the paint to a canvas.
I'm going to, even if I'm notfeeling it in this moment, like,
I have to do another take andI will, you know, and it's like sometimes
I feel like I shut myself offwhen I'm like, I'm so stunted. And
(07:13):
it's like, actually the workyou're doing is still worth doing.
For sure. For sure. I findthat when that inner critic is attacking
me because it knows what, youknow, he knows what buttons to press
to, you know, get me off. Ikeep a journal of everything that
I've done. You know, forpodcasts, I've got multiple folders
(07:36):
and I can look back at thatand go, you know what? I showed up.
I made all this happen. Sothat inner critic obviously doesn't
know what he's talking aboutbecause I've done all this stuff,
you know, I've got art on mywalls. I paint like a four year old
on crack, but there it is. Youknow, not everybody has their own
art on their walls.
Exactly. And there's somethingto be said for me especially like
(08:02):
something about process whereit's like I'm, I'm gonna go through
this process, I'm going to, Ithink I'm talking about perfectionism
here. Like as an artist, it'slike, oh, it needs to be perfect.
And it's like actually that,that could be such an enemy of creativity
because like to go off of whatyou just kind of said too, like,
(08:26):
oh my God, like a four yearold's art on crack. Like, how great
is that? Like, that's fantast.Yeah, I, I, that inner critic definitely
in all of us knows how to pushour buttons and get us to stop. And
I mean actually I'll justshare a project that I'm, that it's
(08:48):
not necessarily, it's creativebut it's not necessarily maybe the
biggest art thing. Like I'mworking on my literal, my YouTube
channel. Like, I'm working onlike adjusting and figuring out some
of, like, some of themechanics of that. Like, I've never
taken time to do that. LikeI'm like, oh, how does YouTube work?
And I'm reading books on thatand I'm. But in order to do that,
I'm having to do literallywhat you and I are doing right now.
(09:10):
Like, I'm literally having tolike, oh, I have to record and oh,
I have to like have my audioset up and oh, like I have to talk
about something or makesomething or do something and it's
like, okay, this is just, itfeels very mechanical. Yet at the
same time I'm like, if I don'tgo through this process, I'm not
ever going to get to makingsome of this stuff where it's like,
oh, that's really, reallyinspiring. Message or art or visual
(09:35):
or message or you know what Imean? Like I'm all about the message
too. So you can't just, Idon't know, you can't just start
at the top of your game. Likeit's like painting childlike art
that is on your wall. Likerock it out. Like there's, I don't
know. Yeah, there's somethingin that. There's something in that,
(09:58):
that for myself especially, Iguess I'm a avid fan. If you can't
tell of doing and like doingand maybe you've heard about this,
Tim, I think a lot of peoplehave already know about this. But
like there was that, I thinkthere was a study. At some point
(10:18):
I'd have to look this up, butI don't, I'm not going to. I'm just
going to talk about it. Therewas a study at one point where I
think it was a. It was like anart class or something, and they,
The. The teacher had half ofthe students work on one piece of
art and it was going to be thebest one that they could do. And
then he had the other half.He's like, it's not so much about
the one piece. It's aboutquantity, and I want you to do as
(10:39):
much as you can get out. Andit was actually the people that did
quantity that I think came outwhere it was like, actually they.
They learned the most. Andactually they had the most interesting
pieces, like the most, asopposed to the. The half that were.
They were just focusing onone. So that kind of has stuck with
me over the years.
I like that. No, because, youknow, with some of those. And I'm
(11:02):
going to use huge air quoteshere that nobody but you and I will
see those huge failures that,that we have, you can get some wonderful
lessons even better thanreading, you know, manuals on how
to do YouTube or watchingYouTube videos on how to do YouTube.
(11:23):
You know, just by going outand doing it, you can learn so much
as opposed to just sittingthere and going, well, I'm not going
to be the, the best podcasterin the world, so I won't do it. I
find a lot of great, greatideas in those failures and that.
(11:46):
That's how I approach it. ButI, I like what you're saying there.
I really do.
When I, I. You're echoingsomething, too, that has been actually
really near and dear to my.Myself in my, in my work, in my.
As a performer, as an actor.And I've mentioned it on some other
podcasts and I've. But I. I'llprobably say this until the day I
(12:07):
die, but, like, one of thethings that my dad told me when I
was first, like, going aroundand knocking on doors and auditioning
and just really kind of firstgetting my feet wet, not knowing
what I is. My dad asked me.He's like, but are you being told
no? Are people turning youdown, like, for roles and for, like,
(12:32):
what you're trying to do? AndI was like, yes, I am. And. And it's
hard. And he's like, good.He's like, it's so good. Because
he's like, if you are notbeing told no, you're not actually
trying hard enough. Like you.He's like, being told no is a sign
that you are pushing yourself.And he's like, that's something to
really be proud of. And I Lovethat so much. I love it so much where
(12:56):
it's like, without failureyou're not actually, you're, to me,
that's great. It's just likewith failure it shows that you're
actually pushing yourself.You're trying something, you're,
you're like, if we just walkout and oh, we're just amazing artists.
Okay, but where's the failure?Where's the, are you pushing yourself?
(13:17):
You know, so there's somethingin that that I just, I've really
carried that with me and it's,it's served me really well as a performer,
as an actor because there's somuch, so much like just you audition
for, you know, 10 things andmaybe you get a callback to one or
two, you know, and there'sjust a lot of rejection there, if
you choose to see it asrejection. But yeah, it was a piece
(13:40):
of advice, just in insightthat for my dad, that I've always
really appreciated.
I'm stealing that. It's goingto be on the wall right over here
because that, that is goldright there. That is old.
Yeah.
Because you're into a lot ofdifferent things, you know, acting,
(14:00):
a little bit of writing,painting. Not like a 4 year old on
crack, but you know, we'llwork on that, we'll work on that.
I've got a whole class for youall set up. But with all these different
things that you're into, howdo you navigate that creative energy
required for each medium? Isit the same kind of energy, just
(14:23):
a different outlet? Or are youfinding, you know, I'm putting 90%
into acting, 5% in thewriting, 3% into painting or.
That's a good question. Ithink it's something that I've really,
I have grappled with thatquite a bit of just over the years
of, of the work that I've beendoing. Like I actually have, I, I,
(14:49):
I don't claim this currently,but in the past I actually have done
painting. I've, I was an oilpainter. I'm not going to say that
I don't still have that in me,you know what I'm saying? But it
is that thing of grapplingwith what do I want to put my time
towards and my creativeenergy. And there was a point I was,
(15:09):
I was actually, I was doingpaintings, I was working with a gallery,
I was selling work and I was,I wasn't happy, I wasn't, I was finding
that I was like, this isfeeling like a grind. And that to
me was really not fulfilling.And it Definitely wasn't something
that I was wantingspecifically for that creative outlet.
(15:31):
I was like, this actually isnot good for me as a creative. I
do own for myself. I know, Iknow for myself. I am a creative
and I feel like, I feel likethat's a. If I'm going to put a label
on it, it's like, I'm acreative. Like I, I'm very creative
and very good at manydifferent disciplines, but at the
end of the day, I'm a creativeand that has been really calming
(15:54):
of my inner critic anxiety oflike, I have to accomplish everything
and I must be amazing in thisarea, this, and I have to do that.
And it's like, no, I'm acreative. And that comes with wearing
a lot of different hats andbeing able to move around in a lot
of different creativecapacities. Be it visual arts, be
it writing, be it performing,be it, you know, using my computer
(16:17):
and making fun YouTubethumbnails for my videos. You know
what I mean? Like, using thatcreative outlet. And I guess I'm
trying to recognize that andsee that more where it's like actually
even just doing that, ittakes, I'm stealing artistic tricks
and stuff to make things lookgood. And it's like that's part of
my creative process. And alsoacknowledging like, for myself too,
(16:41):
in my day to day work, whenI'm working as, as one who works
in marketing, that also isdraining my creative bucket. Like
that is making it so it's likeI actually don't have as much then
to take from that and do formy own pet projects or whatever it
is I'm working on andacknowledging that and being like,
well, I'm, I'm using that andI'm using it to make a living. And
(17:01):
there's honor in that for me.Like, it's, it's a good thing. I
often get asked the questionI'm. And I, I don't know if you could
ask this question, Tim, but Ioften get asked it just in my general
life. When people hear,they're like, oh, you're, you're
an actor. Well, how come Iknow I've never heard of you? And,
(17:22):
and I'm like, well, you'venever heard of me because most of
the stuff I've done, it's liketiny little parts and obscure movies,
and they're like, well then,so are you really an actor? And it's
like, Yeah, I am 100% like.And I'm also an actor who lives in
the Twin Cities, which is, I'mvery proud of the fact that I've
been able to work with somereally huge world renowned named
(17:46):
performers and I'm doing it ina capacity where I'm like, I'm in
a city that this isn'tnecessarily known for that. So like
I'm taking my, you know whatI'm saying? Like, I'm like, I'm making
things, some things work forme. But I always smile at that question
where, where for me I feelpretty good about what I'm doing
(18:07):
and that's, I think whatmatters at the end of the day. I,
I love accolades too. I'm not,I do not mean to sound like I do
not want some accolades forart. Yeah, yeah, it's, it's an interesting,
it's interesting. I don't, Iguess. Can I put the question back
(18:28):
on you a little bit? Like.
Absolutely.
If you put, if you put. Yeah,I answer the same question if you
can. I don't know. I'm curiousto hear what you think.
Well, a lot of people ask me,you know, well, are you making a
lot of money with your podcastand, or, you know, I've heard of
(18:50):
Joe Rogan, but I haven't heardof you exactly. You know, and I'm
like, well, yeah, he's got ahundred million dollars, you know,
he's got a great deal, youknow, and I, I guess for me there
is a, a line of doing being anamateur and being a professional.
(19:13):
Yeah.
And basically being aprofessional means I get paid to
do what I do. Now do I make myliving off of it? You know, is it
paying for this house and youknow, for this microphone? No, it's
not. But I enjoy doing it. Ienjoy the people I get to talk to.
(19:33):
I enjoy interacting with thelistener that is out there and enjoying
what I'm saying. Or maybethey're going to sleep to what I'm
saying. Doesn't matter,they're listening. That's fine. My,
you know, my paintings paintlike a four year old on crack. Am
I selling them? Probably not,probably not yet. But it's, you know,
(20:00):
it's, it does my soul good toget that out, put it on a wall. I've
got four books of selfpublished poetry. You know, people
have heard of Seamus Haney orJohn Updike who I have actually met
John Updike, but they don'tknow me. And it's like, great, well
(20:24):
here's an opportunity for meto share this with you. Have fun
with it. So yeah, that's,that's how I approach it. You know,
that's how I approach thatquestion when. When people throw
that back at me. I'm havingfun with life. And then I look at
them and go, what are you doing?
Yes, I'm enjoying. I'm gonna.I'm gonna borrow that too, Tim. I
like that. I'm. I. You mightnot know me, but I'm having fun.
(20:46):
Can you say the same? That's great.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And that's what it's allabout, is having fun, you know, expressing
ourselves, getting. Gettingthe crazy ideas that are in here,
out there and. And sharing itwith the world because nobody else
is, you know, pulled theseideas out of my head. So.
(21:07):
Yeah, yeah. No, and there'svalue in that. And I. I see that
for myself. And I mean, that'ssomething that I'm. I'm. I'm also
really kind of looking at andseeing and noticing. Again, to reference
the YouTube channel buildingthing, where it's just like, there
is. It's like I'm having toomany thoughts at one time. It's.
(21:32):
It's like, as an artist, assomeone who's creating, I don't know.
I don't know if I wouldtotally call everything that I'm
creating on YouTube art, but Iwould definitely say that there's
artistic elements to it. Youknow what I'm saying? And the. There's
that balance, I think, as acreator, as someone who is making
(21:55):
something, where it's like, Ido want some outside input. I do
want to hear what people'stake and insight is on some of it,
but not to the point whereit's like, I'm changing me or I'm
changing my. I think the wordcould be artistic integrity or, you
know what I'm saying? Whereit's like, I don't. I don't necessarily
want to change all of thosethings because of the fact that we
(22:16):
do see throughout history thatsome of the most renowned great artists
and artists, they did sticktrue to, like, a certain something,
and they didn't, like, youknow, mix in on it or. Or quote,
unquote, sell out. Yet. Someof the really great artists who I
love, like, I love Monet, likeClaude Monet to me, like, oh, my
(22:37):
God, like, I. I adore hisstuff, but I feel like he was someone
who was, I think, really,really savvy, and he did live a really
good life with that had moneyin it. Like, I. I don't also. I'm
not. I guess what say is like,I don't believe that we as artists
have to only be starvingartists. You know, I think that there
is a balance in there, and Ialso think outside input is good.
(23:00):
But to a certain point, evenas a performer, as an actor, you
know, it's like, I still haveto do certain things where it's like,
I might not totally do it thisway, but that's what the director
is. That's what he's guiding,and that's what his vision is for
this. And it's like, okay,that's a given circumstance, and
I will take that and I willstill bring me to it. So all of that
(23:23):
sounds great. It's hard to dosometimes, but for sure.
Yeah, for sure. Well, with,you know, our. The academia, because
that's kind of where I comefrom. In my background with theater,
you know, the directors aretaught to, you know, this is your
(23:44):
vision. And, you know, yougotta mold these actors and these
designers and. And then, youknow, actors were taught in my school,
you know, follow what thedirector. You know, try to hit what
the director is saying, butvery little on, you know, what the.
You know, what. What are yougetting out of it as an actor? And
(24:06):
let me see that as a director.Let me see your interpretation of
it. I read a book a long timeago called I Believe, A Sense of
Direction, and I can't. Ican't remember the guy's name to
save my life. But his wholeapproach as a director was to let
(24:28):
the actors do whatever theywanted for like, three or four takes,
you know, with it, to see whatwould come out of it. Then he, you
know, he. He said, you know,the first time they do something,
it's gonna. You're not gonnause it. You just, you know, you're
absolutely not gonna use it.
Yeah.
And then when they see it asecond time, they'll be like, huh,
(24:51):
maybe he's interested in whatI'm doing. And on that third time,
that's gonna be the one thatyou're. 90% of the time, you're gonna
take that third take andyou're gonna run with it, because
then the actor's like, oh,we're in a partnership here. And.
And, you know, the director isgoing to listen to my ideas no matter
(25:11):
how crazy they are, becauseactors are always told, yeah, you
guys are crazy, and all thatstuff. So.
No, there's. There's somethingto that. I know, definitely for.
I've been told that by.There's a specific director, Andrew
Hunt, here in the Twin Cities,and he told me that once. He's like.
He's like, yeah, afterwatching all of your takes he's like.
I was just like, yep, takethree or four. Yep, take three or
(25:33):
four. Take three or four. Youknow, so it's interesting to hear
that. I think it's not just aPaul Cramp thing. I think it sounds
like it's an in general. An ingeneral actor thing, which I can
see, too. Gosh, I'm forgettingwhich director it was. But there's
(25:53):
a director who's known forjust doing like 20 to 100 takes just
to get the actors wore down sothat they're just not. They're just
not bringing so much of, ofprobably the. I don't know, when
you get tired, you start tojust. I don't know, it does, it does
strip away some certainthings, I suppose, on some level,
but some of that too. Andactually, I'm going to rant for a
(26:17):
second, but like, as an actor,like, I do. There's a point where
I've worked with somedirectors and the word that you just,
that you just used, I thinkwas missing from our relationship
as a creatives together. Like,it. It felt more like they were trying
to be manipulative as opposedto being collaborative. And it's
(26:38):
like, I don't actually needyou to wear me down so that I don't
need you to do 100 takes sothat I'm physically tired. Actually,
what I need you to do is tellme what you need. Like, if I'm not
giving you something as acreative, as a performer, what is
it that I'm missing? What isit? What, What's. Because I can do
that. I can bring that. I can.I'm. I have a, I'm a. I'm a trained
(26:59):
actor. Like, I have technique.Like, I. Let me pull on something.
Like, I don't. I don't know.I'm thinking about. There was a director.
And again, to his credit andto mine, like, we were both very
young and he. It was some of.One of the first times that he was
directing, but it was soconfusing to me. Some of the things
that he did on set, like. AndI was like. And, and looking back
(27:20):
on it, he even mentioned he'slike, oh, I was trying to, like,
make it so that you and theother actor had to rely on each other
more. Because in the, in thestory that the, in the. It was like
a survival story of thisbrother and a sister. And I was like,
I don't need you to do that.Like, we're actually, we're. We're
able to do that throughdialogue and through, like the, the
(27:41):
audience is going to believethat because of how. What we're doing,
like, Like, I don't. We don'tneed. We don't need life to mimic
art so much. Like, this is.You're just making me frustrated
as a. Like, you're nottrusting me that I'm going to be
able to bring what it is thatI say to the table. Yeah. So end
of rant.
(28:01):
Well, I'm going to piggybackon that rant and maybe answer a question
for you. And that I thinksometimes directors, they don't know
what they want. They reallydon't know what they want. Or they.
They read the script and thenthey actually have people in front
of them and they go, oh, thisis completely different than, you
(28:25):
know, what I thought it wasgoing to be. So I think, especially
younger directors, I got toadmit it, when I was directing my
first few plays, I wasn't surewhat to look for, what to ask for,
or how to convey that to myactors. But then I was on both sides,
too. I was acting, lightingdesign, so the whole kit and caboodle.
(28:49):
And I just finally one dayjust said, you know what? I'm gonna,
you know, ask my directorexactly what they want, and I'm going
to learn to communicate betterto my actors.
Yeah.
And once I figured that outand read A Sense of Direction by
an art. By an author that Iforget his name. So. And I know he's
dead, so he can't be on thepodcast, but, you know, once I learned
(29:12):
how to do that, it was. It wasa play, and the play was fun. You
know, it was fun foreverybody. Everybody was getting
something out of it.
So there's, There's. I haven'tread A Sense of Direction. I have
to. I'll have to look it up.I'll jot myself a note here, but
it's making me think of. Therewas a book that I had read. This
(29:33):
would have been a long, quite,quite a few years ago now, but the
author is Judith Weston. Andthe. The title of the book is Directing
Actors. A really novel title,but specifically she speaks to film
directors. And it. I lovedwhere she took some of it. She really
was, I think, giving someinsight to directors. And I used.
(29:56):
I use a lot of the techniques,too. But, like, she's like, there's
just. There's just suchwonderful ways that you can get from
performers what you needwithout. Without all of the kind
of, like, what I was rantingabout. Like, you don't need. You
don't need to. You just don'tneed to be unprofessional just to
try to create some sort of adynamic. Like, one of the things
and I'll always remember thisis. It's because it's so vivid and
(30:16):
so easy, is she was working ona. The. The scene is a family dinner,
so. And she had a cast ofperformers, and she's like, it just
wasn't icy enough. Like. Likethere wasn't tension in the. In what
the actors were doing. And soshe told all of them. She's like,
(30:37):
I want you all to do anothertake. As if. If any of you break
general etiquette of how youeat, how. What fork you're eating
from, and if you spillanything, you are going to go to
prison for real. So, like, it.And she's like, it changed the entire
(30:58):
feel of every. Everything is.Everybody's still doing all of their
lines. They're still doing itin that way. But it's like all of
a sudden, there was thisheaviness to it. There was this,
like, very. You know what I'msaying? It's like, if. If you're
an actor, like, to me, that'slike, sign me up. I will work with
you, Judith. Like. Like, Iwant. I want to play within that
(31:20):
world where it's like, yeah,like, yeah, so. And I feel like that's.
That's the sign of. Of areally good creative approach to
play. And I feel like that'ssomething for me. That's. This is
not just for me. What creativedoes not want to play?
Exactly, Exactly. That's whythey call them plays, because they're
(31:43):
fun and you get to play.
Yeah, exactly. It's a sense.I'm writing that book down, by the
way. A sense of direction.
A sense of direction, Yep. AndI will comb my, you know, vast library
behind me, and if I can't findit there, I'll get you a link. Not
a problem. And links will bein the show notes.
(32:04):
I'll look. Yeah, absolutely, that.
Because there'll be a quizafter this. And, you know, any listeners
answering questions from thatquiz, I don't know what I'll give
them, but give them something.Give them a T shirt. There you go.
So what's the most unexpectedsource of inspiration that you've
(32:27):
encountered in your creativejourney? I know a lot of people get
inspiration from going outinto nature or having a rum and Coke
and a half pack of cigarettes.Not that I'm saying that I would
do that anymore, but where doyou get ears from?
The question is, what's anunexpected Source of inspiration.
(32:49):
Yeah. What's the most unexpected?
Gosh, there's a, there's,there's something I, I and I, and
I'm just, I, I just for amoment was like, do I want to share
this? And I was like, I'veshared this before, but this is the
(33:11):
one that, that to, to bereally honest with you and really
open, I guess I shouldn't besurprised by this because I see this
throughout art and I see thisthroughout artists lives. But I think
what was probably one of themost unexpected points of inspiration
for me was I lost familymembers. I had, I had, there was
(33:35):
a car accident that occurredand there was a lot of art that came
out of that for me. And nowlike being removed from that for,
for this happened quite a longtime ago. Being more removed from
that, I can see where I'mlike, that was unexpected just that
(33:57):
whole situation. But thecreativity and the, I think even
the healing that was able tooccur from working through art, like
using art as like a tool ofthat was totally not something that
I was, that I was, I guess Iwasn't aware until that happened
(34:18):
how transformative and thecreative process can be and how healing
it can be. Like that was,yeah, all of those things where it
was like that was, that was.Not only was it like this, like that
I had so much to get out. Likeit was so cathartic. But in retrospect
(34:38):
it's not that surprising, Iguess now. But looking at that and
looking back on it and alsolooking at great art throughout artist
lives, like inspiration. Butthat would be in my life one of the
most unexpected points ofinspiration and creativity that I've
ever experienced. Wow.
Okay. Yeah, that's awesome tohear. I'm glad that you got to experience,
(35:02):
you know, the, the, thehealing nature that art can, that
art can have. I'm a veteranand when I was living in Chicago,
we had a thing called VeteranArt Project and I had done, you know,
theater and art and all thatkind of stuff. But when I started
doing it with those guys andgals, that's when things kicked into
(35:28):
high gear and I was just like,wow, this is amazing. And then that's
kind of what started thiswhole podcast. Create Art podcast
is dealing with art therapywith folks that are going to be veterans
really soon getting out of thearmy due to ill injured or what have
you.
Oh, wow. Okay.
And that, that's, you know,why I do what I do.
(35:49):
Yeah.
And you know, it's amazingwhat something like that can trigger
in you to help you healyourself from something like that.
So I'm glad, I'm sorry that ithappened obviously, but me too. I'm
glad you got to experience it.
(36:10):
And it's, it's cool to hearthat. It's cool to hear and also
learn because I've, I knowlike, like, like I said this was
that tragic stuff like thathappened. It was quite a while ago,
but that journey and alsotrajectory of just of learning for
myself too, of learning,learning about art and learning about.
(36:32):
Because since that time toolike I, I have interacted just with
some like hospitals and thingslike that for that use art therapy
and stuff like that. And it's,it's amazing. It's amazing to me
how the impact. It's amazingto me that it actually can be measured
where it's just like, oh, weactually can measure this quite a
bit and with just even withpatients recovery and things like
(36:56):
that, it's just like, oh,okay. This isn't just because I can,
I can get really woo woosometimes with art. So it's, it's
amazing that it's like, no,this is actually a, a tried and true
thing. So it's, that's, that'scool too that you, that you work
with vets. I'm so appreciativeof that. That's amazing.
(37:17):
Wow. Absolutely. I mean it,it's, it's great that you know, we
can have the, the scientificor the, the data or the studies showing
our art therapy works insteadof us as artists going hey, it works.
And we're all woo woo.
And this matters.
(37:38):
Come on. Art matters. Yougotta read a book.
Come on. Yes.
Go see a show. If you couldcollaborate with any artist, living
dead or otherwise, who wouldit be and what would you create together?
Oh gosh, that's a goodquestion. It probably would be. Oh
(38:02):
goodness, I'm torn a littlebit. I think, I think I'm gonna go
with oil paint. I think Iwould go with, I think I'd go with
like something painting wiseand I'm such a fan of, of the impressionists.
I probably would go withmonetary. What would we create together?
(38:23):
I would be actually supercurious to see what a collaboration
would look like of like aseries of something. I don't know
if you've ever been to theTwin Cities, but like Minnesota in
general is so stunning. Likewe have the North Shore on Lake Superior.
We have nature, nature, natureeverywhere, everywhere. I would be
(38:43):
very curious to see what thatwould look like from through the
eyes of like someone likemonetary. So I would either probably
just want to sit next to himand work with him. You know, I will
just pour the paint tube outand help or. Yeah, it might not be
maybe the most collaborativething ever, but I'd be curious about
(39:05):
that. The other one obviouslywould be probably a film. Film related,
where I'd be curious to maybe,maybe write. Direct. I. I am curious
to direct. I have not yet.That's something that I'm curious
to do at some point.
But come to the dark side. Wehave cookies.
You have you directed?
Oh, yeah.
Obviously not.
Not filmed, but. But theater.
(39:25):
Yeah. As one who comes from,from an acting background, I'm pretty
sure that I, I know I'd beable to communicate with actors,
but we'll see. We'll see whenthat happens. How did, did you start
in acting at all or did youjust do directing?
Well, funny you asked that. SoI was always a bigger guy and I never
(39:50):
wanted to be on stage. Neverwanted to be on stage. And we were
doing a show and they needed abig dumb truck driver to come through,
do a couple of lines and thengo. And they're like, tim, you look
like a big dumb trucker. Let'sgo. So I did it.
(40:13):
Yeah.
So all of my parts have been,you know, I did a Christopher Durang
where I played the pope and atransvestite in the same show and
I stabbed myself to death.
Oh, wow.
Which was interesting how wedid that. So I, I've, I've enjoyed
(40:34):
playing like bit parts.
Yeah, well, I do.
That's.
That's my bread and butterright there.
Yeah, it's the best becauseit's. You can put a lot into it,
but you know that it's just abit part. And I can do like, I can
line up 10 bit parts and boom,boom, boom, boom. And then there
you go. But yeah, I've alwaysenjoyed that. And then improv. I've
(40:57):
done improv with a groupcalled Celsation. They're a Latin
sketch comedy troupe inChicago and a lot of them are Second
City grads, so.
Oh, super fun.
Go to the Second City stage once.
Very fun. Very fun. I'venever, I, I needed to, I need to
take some more improv. I'vedone a lot of improv, but mostly
(41:17):
just on working like honest ona film set. But I'd like to, I'd
like to sharpen that tool alittle bit. That's really cool that
you've done that.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Well,we'll get you hooked up with my folks
in Chicago. Well, we'll haveThem drive up to, you know.
Yes.
The Twin Cities.
Yes.
And hook you up. Good deal.And. And you said you wanted to work
(41:39):
with Monet. Now would you wantto work with Monet or William Defoe
as Monet?
Oh, let's go with WilliamDefoe as Monet. I like this. I like
this a lot. Yes, yes. Maybefor this film, William Defoe can
be Monet and I can be. Who'sthe one who cut his ear off?
(42:01):
Van Gogh.
I'll be Van Gogh, and he canbe Monet and we can fight. I don't
know. Like, there we go. Thiswould be.
I love it. We're going to makethis happen. I'll call up Mr.
Call up to those people.
Yeah, yeah. My people willcall his people and, you know, we'll
get this all hooked up. Yeah,not a problem. What are you doing
(42:21):
next week?
Exactly. Exactly. We've got a camera.
We got a camera. Let's do it.Speaking about movies and all that,
what's a moment in your lifethat you felt was straight out of
a movie or a novel?
Oh, God. Straight out of amovie or a novel. I've, you know,
(42:43):
because I referenced, like,more of a tragic moment in my life.
Like, there's been momentswhere I have been told quite a bit,
actually, by my best friendCatherine. She's. I'll talk to her
on the phone. And she's like.She's like, you live in, like, a
romantic comedy. She's like,that never happens to anybody. Like,
she's like, you're walkingdown the street and it just starts
raining as you're on a date.Like, she's. And I'm trying to think
(43:05):
of, like, a specific instanceof this happen. Oh, here's one. This
is. This is maybe not the mostchar. It's. I don't know. I was on
date number two of my lastboyfriend, and I had had a. I had
had a. You know. Have you everhad a crown put on, like a. Oh, yeah.
So I had.
Had.
I had the temporary on thetemper. So. So. And I was on a lunch
(43:30):
date, and I kid you not, we'resitting there eating. The tooth fell
on the table and. And I didn'tsay anything. I just quietly reached
my hand out, took the toothand put it in my pocket. He didn't
say anything. And it was. Itwas. And we. We. We. We actually.
(43:54):
We dated for a while, and itwas a. It was a horrible. I was like,
this is like, the momentwhere, like, in my head, I was like,
he must be thinking, like, IDo meth and like, my teeth are falling
out. Like, I don't know. Butyeah, my friend Catherine, she's
like, you live in, like, thisromance. She's like, who, Who What?
(44:14):
Who does that happen to? Yeah,there's a lot of little moments like
that where I think I feellike. Yeah, little moments. I've
had quite a few moments when Ifeel like I'm living, like, in a
silly. Like that just happenedkind of a. Kind of a vibe. Yeah.
All right, well, we'll call upWillem Dafoe and have him film that.
(44:37):
Make a romantic comedy out ofit while he plays the green Goblin.
While he plays the greenGoblin, Yes. Who likes to paint,
apparently.
It's a thing. It's a thing hedoes. Yeah.
No, that's. That's very funny.
Awesome. Well, Paul, it's beena delight talking with you. I want
(44:58):
to thank you so much forjoining us here on a creator podcast.
I'm going to do my get out ofJail Free card here. I call it my
get out of Jail Free cardquestion. Anything that I didn't
ask that you would like me to ask?
No, no, this has been. Thishas been a good. This has been fun
to chat with you too, and. Andkind of shoot the breeze on creativity
(45:21):
and art and everything. Yeah,no, I don't have anything specific.
Never have I ever thought thatWilliam Defoe as Monet would be as
interesting as it has. Hasbeen. So.
Yeah, good deal. Well, like Isaid, I'm calling his people up tonight,
(45:41):
so we'll get this set up andmake it happen. Cool. Well, again,
thank you, Paul, so much. Andthank you very much for joining us
here in Create our podcast.
I appreciate you having me on,Tim. It's been really fun.
All right, so that's theepisode. I want to thank Paul for
joining me here today onCreate Art podcast. Learned a lot
(46:03):
of great things, things fromhim and what he's doing and how he
is using acting in hiscreative process. And I think you
probably got a lot out of itas well, such as when we were talking
about creativity being atransformative tool for healing,
(46:23):
especially when you're goingthrough tough times. You heard how
we dove into the importance ofpushing through creative blocks and
comparing artists strugglesto, you know, the plumber's work
ethic, otherwise known asplumber's crack, and how collaboration
in the arts, you know, such asdance, where each partner is. It's
a dance where each partnerbrings their flair while respecting
(46:47):
each other's moves. We alsojoked about perfectionism and you
know, I think we bothsuggested embracing your inner child
and creating our evening. Youknow, like me when it looks like
a four year old on crack. Andwe discussed the role of directors
in the creative process andhow good communication can lead to
(47:08):
some amazing outcomes and, youknow, that can be relayed to any
artistic pursuit. So if you'rewondering how I get great guests
like Paul on my show, well, Iuse a service called PodMatch. And
what that does is that allows,you know, podcasters like myself
and guests to come together.Now I do receive a small commission
(47:32):
for it, but it allows us tocome together and create these wonderful
episodes for you. Now, Iwouldn't bring on anybody on the
show that I didn't feel youwere going to get something out of.
So yeah, I do get a smallcommission, but that doesn't influence
if I bring on a person or notfor the show. You can find my affiliate
(47:54):
link in the show notes if youwant to join up and do that. The
other thing that I use, andthis is mainly for my podcasters
that are out there that listento the show is a service called PodBeacon.
What they do is they provide awearable for you, such as a wristwatch
or a key fob or even abusiness card. And all the person
(48:15):
needs to do is put their phoneover that and it'll take them right
to your website. So check thatout. Podcast Beacon. And I have links
in the show notes for that,for my affiliate link for that. And
I just want to remind everyonethat this is a production of TKB
Podcast Studio. That is my newpodcast studio company that I started
(48:37):
up here in 2025. You can findout more information on that@tkb
podcast studio.com and that'swhere I help my clients, you know,
get through all the noise withquiet professionalism. If you're
thinking about starting up apodcast, check out the website, see
what I've done for other folksand let's see if we can work together.
(48:59):
Alright, that does it for mefor today. I need to get on with
my day. I need. I know youneed to get on with your day. So
go out there and tame thatinner critic. Create more than you
consume. Talk to your actorbuddies and go out there and make
some art for somebody. Youlove yourself. I'll talk with you
again real soon.
Create Art Podcast interviewPaul Cram. Hello, friend. This is
Timothy Keem O'Brien, yourhead instigator for Create Art Podcast,
where I bring my over 30 yearsof experience in the arts and education
world to help you tame yourinner critic and create more than
(00:28):
you consume. In this episode,I'm going to be speaking with Paul
Cram. Now, he's based in theTwin Cities of Minnesota, and he
has graced both local andnational screens, sharing scenes
with talents like WoodyHarrelson, Cillian Murphy, and Susan
Sarandon. Beyond the camera,he's a voracious reader and founder
(00:50):
of the Men who Read book club,boasting over 85 members since its
inception in 2019. Now, whenhe's not acting or reading, Paul
indulges in gardening, queersports, and enjoying pop culture,
movies and shows. It was sucha delight to talk with Paul. He's.
He's, you know, he does theacting thing. And as you know me,
(01:13):
I have a degree in theater, soit was, it was a great conversation
that we had. You know, actingis kind of a. I'm not an actor like
Paul is. I'm just going tostay. State that right there for
you. But a lot of the insightsthat he shares with us with acting,
(01:33):
I think we can apply to ourartistic practice no matter what
we do. So I'm going to stepback and play for you the interview
that I had with Paul Cram.Okay. And we're live. All right,
everyone, thank you forjoining us here on Create Art Podcast.
I have the privilege of havingPaul on the show here tonight. Paul,
(01:56):
how is it up there in the TwinCities for you tonight?
It's good. It's good. Youknow, we're kind of in that really
interesting in between stagebetween winter and spring. So, like,
some days there's snow on theground and the next day we're all
wearing shorts, and then we'rewearing, you know, our parka. I don't
know, it just. Every day is alittle different, but it's. It's
(02:18):
going well.
Awesome. Awesome. Yeah, it'sthat, you know, wait five minutes,
the weather will change forsure. Sure.
Exactly. Yeah.
Well, I wanted to get rightinto the questions here for you.
First one I have up here isit's going to be a little bit odd,
but I think you might like it.
If I can roll with that.Maybe. We'll see.
(02:38):
If you don't, we can edit it.
If we don't, we don't.
But if creativity were aphysical place, what would yours
look like?
If creativity were A physicalplace. What would it look like?
Hmm.
I think it would look like,gosh, you know, what's coming in
(03:04):
my head is more of like aworkshop, kind of like a work where
you actually have all thetools that you need to create. So
I feel like that's the spacethat I'm imagining, like, where it's
like, this is the place tomake things. That's what it would.
A nice, warm workshop that hasall the tools needed to create. I
(03:25):
keep getting visuals of, like,painting that kind of a vibe. So
that's what it would look liketo me.
Awesome. Awesome. And with alot of coffee there too. I would
have to have that there.
I actually. I've been told notto drink coffee by people that have.
I feel like I have a lot ofenergy in general, and I might be
(03:47):
that guy that. Yeah, it wouldbe interesting. I think I'd come
out with, like, some artthat's very, like, Jackson Pollock
esque or something.
All right, well, then we'rejust gonna pop over to your studio
and drink some coffee and makesome art.
Drink some coffee and dosomething with it.
I love it. I love it.Something we talk a lot about here
on Korean Art Podcast is, youknow, being creatively blocked or
(04:10):
having that writer's block oractor's block. I'm not a huge fan
of that idea. I kind of takeSeth Godin's view of, you know, a
plumber doesn't have plumber'sblock. They have plumbers crack,
but not plumber's block. Buthave you had times where you felt
(04:30):
creatively blocked, and how doyou overcome that?
There's a lot of time. I mean,I. We're talking about a lot of different.
Different artisticdisciplines. You know, I'm as. As
an actor, I guess I. Because Ido also do, like, I write a little
bit. I do a little bit ofvisual art. You know, even in my
(04:52):
day to day. In my. My day today job, as I work a lot in marketing,
which is very visual, there'stimes when maybe I don't feel as
creative or I don't have asmany ideas, and that's kind of. I
think maybe what we're kind ofdriving at a little bit. But as far
as, like, even as an actor,the. The way in which I guess I would
(05:20):
show up has a lot to do with.I feel like acting can be a hard
one because there's so muchcreativity that's already been pumped
in, especially with ideas andthings like that. Like when I show
up on set, when I'M working,the writer's already written and
kind of given a framework towhat's being done. But there's, there's,
(05:41):
there's something actuallyI've been working on a lot lately
for myself with within, likemy technique of performing as an
actor. And it's finding those.I feel like a good actor like myself,
like, it is finding thoseideas or inspirations within the
framework that already exists.So if I was tapped out and I was,
(06:04):
I think a big thing for me islike, if I'm tired, I have a really
hard time bringing it.Bringing. So I feel like a lot of
things, like if I'm tappedout, if I'm not feeling like I'm
creative, it's like, then putthe proverbial brush down for a moment
and take a walk in nature.Take a nap, take, take a vacation.
(06:28):
Do something maybe to get mybrain working in it. Maybe not even
working, but just like doingsomething different. But I'm also
a big proponent and big fanand you could tell me if you are
as well. I'm a big fan also.Where it's like, you know what, sometimes
it's, it's numbers over. Like,I might not feel like I'm doing something
that's the most amazing, butthen it's like, actually, you know
(06:50):
what, that was pretty good.And like, I, that inner critic can
really turn off sometimes.Where it's like, actually, I just
need to do this. I just, I'mgoing to put the paint to a canvas.
I'm going to, even if I'm notfeeling it in this moment, like,
I have to do another take andI will, you know, and it's like sometimes
I feel like I shut myself offwhen I'm like, I'm so stunted. And
(07:13):
it's like, actually the workyou're doing is still worth doing.
For sure. For sure. I findthat when that inner critic is attacking
me because it knows what, youknow, he knows what buttons to press
to, you know, get me off. Ikeep a journal of everything that
I've done. You know, forpodcasts, I've got multiple folders
(07:36):
and I can look back at thatand go, you know what? I showed up.
I made all this happen. Sothat inner critic obviously doesn't
know what he's talking aboutbecause I've done all this stuff,
you know, I've got art on mywalls. I paint like a four year old
on crack, but there it is. Youknow, not everybody has their own
art on their walls.
Exactly. And there's somethingto be said for me especially like
(08:02):
something about process whereit's like I'm, I'm gonna go through
this process, I'm going to, Ithink I'm talking about perfectionism
here. Like as an artist, it'slike, oh, it needs to be perfect.
And it's like actually that,that could be such an enemy of creativity
because like to go off of whatyou just kind of said too, like,
(08:26):
oh my God, like a four yearold's art on crack. Like, how great
is that? Like, that's fantast.Yeah, I, I, that inner critic definitely
in all of us knows how to pushour buttons and get us to stop. And
I mean actually I'll justshare a project that I'm, that it's
(08:48):
not necessarily, it's creativebut it's not necessarily maybe the
biggest art thing. Like I'mworking on my literal, my YouTube
channel. Like, I'm working onlike adjusting and figuring out some
of, like, some of themechanics of that. Like, I've never
taken time to do that. LikeI'm like, oh, how does YouTube work?
And I'm reading books on thatand I'm. But in order to do that,
I'm having to do literallywhat you and I are doing right now.
(09:10):
Like, I'm literally having tolike, oh, I have to record and oh,
I have to like have my audioset up and oh, like I have to talk
about something or makesomething or do something and it's
like, okay, this is just, itfeels very mechanical. Yet at the
same time I'm like, if I don'tgo through this process, I'm not
ever going to get to makingsome of this stuff where it's like,
oh, that's really, reallyinspiring. Message or art or visual
(09:35):
or message or you know what Imean? Like I'm all about the message
too. So you can't just, Idon't know, you can't just start
at the top of your game. Likeit's like painting childlike art
that is on your wall. Likerock it out. Like there's, I don't
know. Yeah, there's somethingin that. There's something in that,
(09:58):
that for myself especially, Iguess I'm a avid fan. If you can't
tell of doing and like doingand maybe you've heard about this,
Tim, I think a lot of peoplehave already know about this. But
like there was that, I thinkthere was a study. At some point
(10:18):
I'd have to look this up, butI don't, I'm not going to. I'm just
going to talk about it. Therewas a study at one point where I
think it was a. It was like anart class or something, and they,
The. The teacher had half ofthe students work on one piece of
art and it was going to be thebest one that they could do. And
then he had the other half.He's like, it's not so much about
the one piece. It's aboutquantity, and I want you to do as
(10:39):
much as you can get out. Andit was actually the people that did
quantity that I think came outwhere it was like, actually they.
They learned the most. Andactually they had the most interesting
pieces, like the most, asopposed to the. The half that were.
They were just focusing onone. So that kind of has stuck with
me over the years.
I like that. No, because, youknow, with some of those. And I'm
(11:02):
going to use huge air quoteshere that nobody but you and I will
see those huge failures that,that we have, you can get some wonderful
lessons even better thanreading, you know, manuals on how
to do YouTube or watchingYouTube videos on how to do YouTube.
(11:23):
You know, just by going outand doing it, you can learn so much
as opposed to just sittingthere and going, well, I'm not going
to be the, the best podcasterin the world, so I won't do it. I
find a lot of great, greatideas in those failures and that.
(11:46):
That's how I approach it. ButI, I like what you're saying there.
I really do.
When I, I. You're echoingsomething, too, that has been actually
really near and dear to my.Myself in my, in my work, in my.
As a performer, as an actor.And I've mentioned it on some other
podcasts and I've. But I. I'llprobably say this until the day I
(12:07):
die, but, like, one of thethings that my dad told me when I
was first, like, going aroundand knocking on doors and auditioning
and just really kind of firstgetting my feet wet, not knowing
what I is. My dad asked me.He's like, but are you being told
no? Are people turning youdown, like, for roles and for, like,
(12:32):
what you're trying to do? AndI was like, yes, I am. And. And it's
hard. And he's like, good.He's like, it's so good. Because
he's like, if you are notbeing told no, you're not actually
trying hard enough. Like you.He's like, being told no is a sign
that you are pushing yourself.And he's like, that's something to
really be proud of. And I Lovethat so much. I love it so much where
(12:56):
it's like, without failureyou're not actually, you're, to me,
that's great. It's just likewith failure it shows that you're
actually pushing yourself.You're trying something, you're,
you're like, if we just walkout and oh, we're just amazing artists.
Okay, but where's the failure?Where's the, are you pushing yourself?
(13:17):
You know, so there's somethingin that that I just, I've really
carried that with me and it's,it's served me really well as a performer,
as an actor because there's somuch, so much like just you audition
for, you know, 10 things andmaybe you get a callback to one or
two, you know, and there'sjust a lot of rejection there, if
you choose to see it asrejection. But yeah, it was a piece
(13:40):
of advice, just in insightthat for my dad, that I've always
really appreciated.
I'm stealing that. It's goingto be on the wall right over here
because that, that is goldright there. That is old.
Yeah.
Because you're into a lot ofdifferent things, you know, acting,
(14:00):
a little bit of writing,painting. Not like a 4 year old on
crack, but you know, we'llwork on that, we'll work on that.
I've got a whole class for youall set up. But with all these different
things that you're into, howdo you navigate that creative energy
required for each medium? Isit the same kind of energy, just
(14:23):
a different outlet? Or are youfinding, you know, I'm putting 90%
into acting, 5% in thewriting, 3% into painting or.
That's a good question. Ithink it's something that I've really,
I have grappled with thatquite a bit of just over the years
of, of the work that I've beendoing. Like I actually have, I, I,
(14:49):
I don't claim this currently,but in the past I actually have done
painting. I've, I was an oilpainter. I'm not going to say that
I don't still have that in me,you know what I'm saying? But it
is that thing of grapplingwith what do I want to put my time
towards and my creativeenergy. And there was a point I was,
(15:09):
I was actually, I was doingpaintings, I was working with a gallery,
I was selling work and I was,I wasn't happy, I wasn't, I was finding
that I was like, this isfeeling like a grind. And that to
me was really not fulfilling.And it Definitely wasn't something
that I was wantingspecifically for that creative outlet.
(15:31):
I was like, this actually isnot good for me as a creative. I
do own for myself. I know, Iknow for myself. I am a creative
and I feel like, I feel likethat's a. If I'm going to put a label
on it, it's like, I'm acreative. Like I, I'm very creative
and very good at manydifferent disciplines, but at the
end of the day, I'm a creativeand that has been really calming
(15:54):
of my inner critic anxiety oflike, I have to accomplish everything
and I must be amazing in thisarea, this, and I have to do that.
And it's like, no, I'm acreative. And that comes with wearing
a lot of different hats andbeing able to move around in a lot
of different creativecapacities. Be it visual arts, be
it writing, be it performing,be it, you know, using my computer
(16:17):
and making fun YouTubethumbnails for my videos. You know
what I mean? Like, using thatcreative outlet. And I guess I'm
trying to recognize that andsee that more where it's like actually
even just doing that, ittakes, I'm stealing artistic tricks
and stuff to make things lookgood. And it's like that's part of
my creative process. And alsoacknowledging like, for myself too,
(16:41):
in my day to day work, whenI'm working as, as one who works
in marketing, that also isdraining my creative bucket. Like
that is making it so it's likeI actually don't have as much then
to take from that and do formy own pet projects or whatever it
is I'm working on andacknowledging that and being like,
well, I'm, I'm using that andI'm using it to make a living. And
(17:01):
there's honor in that for me.Like, it's, it's a good thing. I
often get asked the questionI'm. And I, I don't know if you could
ask this question, Tim, but Ioften get asked it just in my general
life. When people hear,they're like, oh, you're, you're
an actor. Well, how come Iknow I've never heard of you? And,
(17:22):
and I'm like, well, you'venever heard of me because most of
the stuff I've done, it's liketiny little parts and obscure movies,
and they're like, well then,so are you really an actor? And it's
like, Yeah, I am 100% like.And I'm also an actor who lives in
the Twin Cities, which is, I'mvery proud of the fact that I've
been able to work with somereally huge world renowned named
(17:46):
performers and I'm doing it ina capacity where I'm like, I'm in
a city that this isn'tnecessarily known for that. So like
I'm taking my, you know whatI'm saying? Like, I'm like, I'm making
things, some things work forme. But I always smile at that question
where, where for me I feelpretty good about what I'm doing
(18:07):
and that's, I think whatmatters at the end of the day. I,
I love accolades too. I'm not,I do not mean to sound like I do
not want some accolades forart. Yeah, yeah, it's, it's an interesting,
it's interesting. I don't, Iguess. Can I put the question back
(18:28):
on you a little bit? Like.
Absolutely.
If you put, if you put. Yeah,I answer the same question if you
can. I don't know. I'm curiousto hear what you think.
Well, a lot of people ask me,you know, well, are you making a
lot of money with your podcastand, or, you know, I've heard of
(18:50):
Joe Rogan, but I haven't heardof you exactly. You know, and I'm
like, well, yeah, he's got ahundred million dollars, you know,
he's got a great deal, youknow, and I, I guess for me there
is a, a line of doing being anamateur and being a professional.
(19:13):
Yeah.
And basically being aprofessional means I get paid to
do what I do. Now do I make myliving off of it? You know, is it
paying for this house and youknow, for this microphone? No, it's
not. But I enjoy doing it. Ienjoy the people I get to talk to.
(19:33):
I enjoy interacting with thelistener that is out there and enjoying
what I'm saying. Or maybethey're going to sleep to what I'm
saying. Doesn't matter,they're listening. That's fine. My,
you know, my paintings paintlike a four year old on crack. Am
I selling them? Probably not,probably not yet. But it's, you know,
(20:00):
it's, it does my soul good toget that out, put it on a wall. I've
got four books of selfpublished poetry. You know, people
have heard of Seamus Haney orJohn Updike who I have actually met
John Updike, but they don'tknow me. And it's like, great, well
(20:24):
here's an opportunity for meto share this with you. Have fun
with it. So yeah, that's,that's how I approach it. You know,
that's how I approach thatquestion when. When people throw
that back at me. I'm havingfun with life. And then I look at
them and go, what are you doing?
Yes, I'm enjoying. I'm gonna.I'm gonna borrow that too, Tim. I
like that. I'm. I. You mightnot know me, but I'm having fun.
(20:46):
Can you say the same? That's great.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And that's what it's allabout, is having fun, you know, expressing
ourselves, getting. Gettingthe crazy ideas that are in here,
out there and. And sharing itwith the world because nobody else
is, you know, pulled theseideas out of my head. So.
(21:07):
Yeah, yeah. No, and there'svalue in that. And I. I see that
for myself. And I mean, that'ssomething that I'm. I'm. I'm also
really kind of looking at andseeing and noticing. Again, to reference
the YouTube channel buildingthing, where it's just like, there
is. It's like I'm having toomany thoughts at one time. It's.
(21:32):
It's like, as an artist, assomeone who's creating, I don't know.
I don't know if I wouldtotally call everything that I'm
creating on YouTube art, but Iwould definitely say that there's
artistic elements to it. Youknow what I'm saying? And the. There's
that balance, I think, as acreator, as someone who is making
(21:55):
something, where it's like, Ido want some outside input. I do
want to hear what people'stake and insight is on some of it,
but not to the point whereit's like, I'm changing me or I'm
changing my. I think the wordcould be artistic integrity or, you
know what I'm saying? Whereit's like, I don't. I don't necessarily
want to change all of thosethings because of the fact that we
(22:16):
do see throughout history thatsome of the most renowned great artists
and artists, they did sticktrue to, like, a certain something,
and they didn't, like, youknow, mix in on it or. Or quote,
unquote, sell out. Yet. Someof the really great artists who I
love, like, I love Monet, likeClaude Monet to me, like, oh, my
(22:37):
God, like, I. I adore hisstuff, but I feel like he was someone
who was, I think, really,really savvy, and he did live a really
good life with that had moneyin it. Like, I. I don't also. I'm
not. I guess what say is like,I don't believe that we as artists
have to only be starvingartists. You know, I think that there
is a balance in there, and Ialso think outside input is good.
(23:00):
But to a certain point, evenas a performer, as an actor, you
know, it's like, I still haveto do certain things where it's like,
I might not totally do it thisway, but that's what the director
is. That's what he's guiding,and that's what his vision is for
this. And it's like, okay,that's a given circumstance, and
I will take that and I willstill bring me to it. So all of that
(23:23):
sounds great. It's hard to dosometimes, but for sure.
Yeah, for sure. Well, with,you know, our. The academia, because
that's kind of where I comefrom. In my background with theater,
you know, the directors aretaught to, you know, this is your
(23:44):
vision. And, you know, yougotta mold these actors and these
designers and. And then, youknow, actors were taught in my school,
you know, follow what thedirector. You know, try to hit what
the director is saying, butvery little on, you know, what the.
You know, what. What are yougetting out of it as an actor? And
(24:06):
let me see that as a director.Let me see your interpretation of
it. I read a book a long timeago called I Believe, A Sense of
Direction, and I can't. Ican't remember the guy's name to
save my life. But his wholeapproach as a director was to let
(24:28):
the actors do whatever theywanted for like, three or four takes,
you know, with it, to see whatwould come out of it. Then he, you
know, he. He said, you know,the first time they do something,
it's gonna. You're not gonnause it. You just, you know, you're
absolutely not gonna use it.
Yeah.
And then when they see it asecond time, they'll be like, huh,
(24:51):
maybe he's interested in whatI'm doing. And on that third time,
that's gonna be the one thatyou're. 90% of the time, you're gonna
take that third take andyou're gonna run with it, because
then the actor's like, oh,we're in a partnership here. And.
And, you know, the director isgoing to listen to my ideas no matter
(25:11):
how crazy they are, becauseactors are always told, yeah, you
guys are crazy, and all thatstuff. So.
No, there's. There's somethingto that. I know, definitely for.
I've been told that by.There's a specific director, Andrew
Hunt, here in the Twin Cities,and he told me that once. He's like.
He's like, yeah, afterwatching all of your takes he's like.
I was just like, yep, takethree or four. Yep, take three or
(25:33):
four. Take three or four. Youknow, so it's interesting to hear
that. I think it's not just aPaul Cramp thing. I think it sounds
like it's an in general. An ingeneral actor thing, which I can
see, too. Gosh, I'm forgettingwhich director it was. But there's
(25:53):
a director who's known forjust doing like 20 to 100 takes just
to get the actors wore down sothat they're just not. They're just
not bringing so much of, ofprobably the. I don't know, when
you get tired, you start tojust. I don't know, it does, it does
strip away some certainthings, I suppose, on some level,
but some of that too. Andactually, I'm going to rant for a
(26:17):
second, but like, as an actor,like, I do. There's a point where
I've worked with somedirectors and the word that you just,
that you just used, I thinkwas missing from our relationship
as a creatives together. Like,it. It felt more like they were trying
to be manipulative as opposedto being collaborative. And it's
(26:38):
like, I don't actually needyou to wear me down so that I don't
need you to do 100 takes sothat I'm physically tired. Actually,
what I need you to do is tellme what you need. Like, if I'm not
giving you something as acreative, as a performer, what is
it that I'm missing? What isit? What, What's. Because I can do
that. I can bring that. I can.I'm. I have a, I'm a. I'm a trained
(26:59):
actor. Like, I have technique.Like, I. Let me pull on something.
Like, I don't. I don't know.I'm thinking about. There was a director.
And again, to his credit andto mine, like, we were both very
young and he. It was some of.One of the first times that he was
directing, but it was soconfusing to me. Some of the things
that he did on set, like. AndI was like. And, and looking back
(27:20):
on it, he even mentioned he'slike, oh, I was trying to, like,
make it so that you and theother actor had to rely on each other
more. Because in the, in thestory that the, in the. It was like
a survival story of thisbrother and a sister. And I was like,
I don't need you to do that.Like, we're actually, we're. We're
able to do that throughdialogue and through, like the, the
(27:41):
audience is going to believethat because of how. What we're doing,
like, Like, I don't. We don'tneed. We don't need life to mimic
art so much. Like, this is.You're just making me frustrated
as a. Like, you're nottrusting me that I'm going to be
able to bring what it is thatI say to the table. Yeah. So end
of rant.
(28:01):
Well, I'm going to piggybackon that rant and maybe answer a question
for you. And that I thinksometimes directors, they don't know
what they want. They reallydon't know what they want. Or they.
They read the script and thenthey actually have people in front
of them and they go, oh, thisis completely different than, you
(28:25):
know, what I thought it wasgoing to be. So I think, especially
younger directors, I got toadmit it, when I was directing my
first few plays, I wasn't surewhat to look for, what to ask for,
or how to convey that to myactors. But then I was on both sides,
too. I was acting, lightingdesign, so the whole kit and caboodle.
(28:49):
And I just finally one dayjust said, you know what? I'm gonna,
you know, ask my directorexactly what they want, and I'm going
to learn to communicate betterto my actors.
Yeah.
And once I figured that outand read A Sense of Direction by
an art. By an author that Iforget his name. So. And I know he's
dead, so he can't be on thepodcast, but, you know, once I learned
(29:12):
how to do that, it was. It wasa play, and the play was fun. You
know, it was fun foreverybody. Everybody was getting
something out of it.
So there's, There's. I haven'tread A Sense of Direction. I have
to. I'll have to look it up.I'll jot myself a note here, but
it's making me think of. Therewas a book that I had read. This
(29:33):
would have been a long, quite,quite a few years ago now, but the
author is Judith Weston. Andthe. The title of the book is Directing
Actors. A really novel title,but specifically she speaks to film
directors. And it. I lovedwhere she took some of it. She really
was, I think, giving someinsight to directors. And I used.
(29:56):
I use a lot of the techniques,too. But, like, she's like, there's
just. There's just suchwonderful ways that you can get from
performers what you needwithout. Without all of the kind
of, like, what I was rantingabout. Like, you don't need. You
don't need to. You just don'tneed to be unprofessional just to
try to create some sort of adynamic. Like, one of the things
and I'll always remember thisis. It's because it's so vivid and
(30:16):
so easy, is she was working ona. The. The scene is a family dinner,
so. And she had a cast ofperformers, and she's like, it just
wasn't icy enough. Like. Likethere wasn't tension in the. In what
the actors were doing. And soshe told all of them. She's like,
(30:37):
I want you all to do anothertake. As if. If any of you break
general etiquette of how youeat, how. What fork you're eating
from, and if you spillanything, you are going to go to
prison for real. So, like, it.And she's like, it changed the entire
(30:58):
feel of every. Everything is.Everybody's still doing all of their
lines. They're still doing itin that way. But it's like all of
a sudden, there was thisheaviness to it. There was this,
like, very. You know what I'msaying? It's like, if. If you're
an actor, like, to me, that'slike, sign me up. I will work with
you, Judith. Like. Like, Iwant. I want to play within that
(31:20):
world where it's like, yeah,like, yeah, so. And I feel like that's.
That's the sign of. Of areally good creative approach to
play. And I feel like that'ssomething for me. That's. This is
not just for me. What creativedoes not want to play?
Exactly, Exactly. That's whythey call them plays, because they're
(31:43):
fun and you get to play.
Yeah, exactly. It's a sense.I'm writing that book down, by the
way. A sense of direction.
A sense of direction, Yep. AndI will comb my, you know, vast library
behind me, and if I can't findit there, I'll get you a link. Not
a problem. And links will bein the show notes.
(32:04):
I'll look. Yeah, absolutely, that.
Because there'll be a quizafter this. And, you know, any listeners
answering questions from thatquiz, I don't know what I'll give
them, but give them something.Give them a T shirt. There you go.
So what's the most unexpectedsource of inspiration that you've
(32:27):
encountered in your creativejourney? I know a lot of people get
inspiration from going outinto nature or having a rum and Coke
and a half pack of cigarettes.Not that I'm saying that I would
do that anymore, but where doyou get ears from?
The question is, what's anunexpected Source of inspiration.
(32:49):
Yeah. What's the most unexpected?
Gosh, there's a, there's,there's something I, I and I, and
I'm just, I, I just for amoment was like, do I want to share
this? And I was like, I'veshared this before, but this is the
(33:11):
one that, that to, to bereally honest with you and really
open, I guess I shouldn't besurprised by this because I see this
throughout art and I see thisthroughout artists lives. But I think
what was probably one of themost unexpected points of inspiration
for me was I lost familymembers. I had, I had, there was
(33:35):
a car accident that occurredand there was a lot of art that came
out of that for me. And nowlike being removed from that for,
for this happened quite a longtime ago. Being more removed from
that, I can see where I'mlike, that was unexpected just that
(33:57):
whole situation. But thecreativity and the, I think even
the healing that was able tooccur from working through art, like
using art as like a tool ofthat was totally not something that
I was, that I was, I guess Iwasn't aware until that happened
(34:18):
how transformative and thecreative process can be and how healing
it can be. Like that was,yeah, all of those things where it
was like that was, that was.Not only was it like this, like that
I had so much to get out. Likeit was so cathartic. But in retrospect
(34:38):
it's not that surprising, Iguess now. But looking at that and
looking back on it and alsolooking at great art throughout artist
lives, like inspiration. Butthat would be in my life one of the
most unexpected points ofinspiration and creativity that I've
ever experienced. Wow.
Okay. Yeah, that's awesome tohear. I'm glad that you got to experience,
(35:02):
you know, the, the, thehealing nature that art can, that
art can have. I'm a veteranand when I was living in Chicago,
we had a thing called VeteranArt Project and I had done, you know,
theater and art and all thatkind of stuff. But when I started
doing it with those guys andgals, that's when things kicked into
(35:28):
high gear and I was just like,wow, this is amazing. And then that's
kind of what started thiswhole podcast. Create Art podcast
is dealing with art therapywith folks that are going to be veterans
really soon getting out of thearmy due to ill injured or what have
you.
Oh, wow. Okay.
And that, that's, you know,why I do what I do.
(35:49):
Yeah.
And you know, it's amazingwhat something like that can trigger
in you to help you healyourself from something like that.
So I'm glad, I'm sorry that ithappened obviously, but me too. I'm
glad you got to experience it.
(36:10):
And it's, it's cool to hearthat. It's cool to hear and also
learn because I've, I knowlike, like, like I said this was
that tragic stuff like thathappened. It was quite a while ago,
but that journey and alsotrajectory of just of learning for
myself too, of learning,learning about art and learning about.
(36:32):
Because since that time toolike I, I have interacted just with
some like hospitals and thingslike that for that use art therapy
and stuff like that. And it's,it's amazing. It's amazing to me
how the impact. It's amazingto me that it actually can be measured
where it's just like, oh, weactually can measure this quite a
bit and with just even withpatients recovery and things like
(36:56):
that, it's just like, oh,okay. This isn't just because I can,
I can get really woo woosometimes with art. So it's, it's
amazing that it's like, no,this is actually a, a tried and true
thing. So it's, that's, that'scool too that you, that you work
with vets. I'm so appreciativeof that. That's amazing.
(37:17):
Wow. Absolutely. I mean it,it's, it's great that you know, we
can have the, the scientificor the, the data or the studies showing
our art therapy works insteadof us as artists going hey, it works.
And we're all woo woo.
And this matters.
(37:38):
Come on. Art matters. Yougotta read a book.
Come on. Yes.
Go see a show. If you couldcollaborate with any artist, living
dead or otherwise, who wouldit be and what would you create together?
Oh gosh, that's a goodquestion. It probably would be. Oh
(38:02):
goodness, I'm torn a littlebit. I think, I think I'm gonna go
with oil paint. I think Iwould go with, I think I'd go with
like something painting wiseand I'm such a fan of, of the impressionists.
I probably would go withmonetary. What would we create together?
(38:23):
I would be actually supercurious to see what a collaboration
would look like of like aseries of something. I don't know
if you've ever been to theTwin Cities, but like Minnesota in
general is so stunning. Likewe have the North Shore on Lake Superior.
We have nature, nature, natureeverywhere, everywhere. I would be
(38:43):
very curious to see what thatwould look like from through the
eyes of like someone likemonetary. So I would either probably
just want to sit next to himand work with him. You know, I will
just pour the paint tube outand help or. Yeah, it might not be
maybe the most collaborativething ever, but I'd be curious about
(39:05):
that. The other one obviouslywould be probably a film. Film related,
where I'd be curious to maybe,maybe write. Direct. I. I am curious
to direct. I have not yet.That's something that I'm curious
to do at some point.
But come to the dark side. Wehave cookies.
You have you directed?
Oh, yeah.
Obviously not.
Not filmed, but. But theater.
(39:25):
Yeah. As one who comes from,from an acting background, I'm pretty
sure that I, I know I'd beable to communicate with actors,
but we'll see. We'll see whenthat happens. How did, did you start
in acting at all or did youjust do directing?
Well, funny you asked that. SoI was always a bigger guy and I never
(39:50):
wanted to be on stage. Neverwanted to be on stage. And we were
doing a show and they needed abig dumb truck driver to come through,
do a couple of lines and thengo. And they're like, tim, you look
like a big dumb trucker. Let'sgo. So I did it.
(40:13):
Yeah.
So all of my parts have been,you know, I did a Christopher Durang
where I played the pope and atransvestite in the same show and
I stabbed myself to death.
Oh, wow.
Which was interesting how wedid that. So I, I've, I've enjoyed
(40:34):
playing like bit parts.
Yeah, well, I do.
That's.
That's my bread and butterright there.
Yeah, it's the best becauseit's. You can put a lot into it,
but you know that it's just abit part. And I can do like, I can
line up 10 bit parts and boom,boom, boom, boom. And then there
you go. But yeah, I've alwaysenjoyed that. And then improv. I've
(40:57):
done improv with a groupcalled Celsation. They're a Latin
sketch comedy troupe inChicago and a lot of them are Second
City grads, so.
Oh, super fun.
Go to the Second City stage once.
Very fun. Very fun. I'venever, I, I needed to, I need to
take some more improv. I'vedone a lot of improv, but mostly
(41:17):
just on working like honest ona film set. But I'd like to, I'd
like to sharpen that tool alittle bit. That's really cool that
you've done that.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Well,we'll get you hooked up with my folks
in Chicago. Well, we'll haveThem drive up to, you know.
Yes.
The Twin Cities.
Yes.
And hook you up. Good deal.And. And you said you wanted to work
(41:39):
with Monet. Now would you wantto work with Monet or William Defoe
as Monet?
Oh, let's go with WilliamDefoe as Monet. I like this. I like
this a lot. Yes, yes. Maybefor this film, William Defoe can
be Monet and I can be. Who'sthe one who cut his ear off?
(42:01):
Van Gogh.
I'll be Van Gogh, and he canbe Monet and we can fight. I don't
know. Like, there we go. Thiswould be.
I love it. We're going to makethis happen. I'll call up Mr.
Call up to those people.
Yeah, yeah. My people willcall his people and, you know, we'll
get this all hooked up. Yeah,not a problem. What are you doing
(42:21):
next week?
Exactly. Exactly. We've got a camera.
We got a camera. Let's do it.Speaking about movies and all that,
what's a moment in your lifethat you felt was straight out of
a movie or a novel?
Oh, God. Straight out of amovie or a novel. I've, you know,
(42:43):
because I referenced, like,more of a tragic moment in my life.
Like, there's been momentswhere I have been told quite a bit,
actually, by my best friendCatherine. She's. I'll talk to her
on the phone. And she's like.She's like, you live in, like, a
romantic comedy. She's like,that never happens to anybody. Like,
she's like, you're walkingdown the street and it just starts
raining as you're on a date.Like, she's. And I'm trying to think
(43:05):
of, like, a specific instanceof this happen. Oh, here's one. This
is. This is maybe not the mostchar. It's. I don't know. I was on
date number two of my lastboyfriend, and I had had a. I had
had a. You know. Have you everhad a crown put on, like a. Oh, yeah.
So I had.
Had.
I had the temporary on thetemper. So. So. And I was on a lunch
(43:30):
date, and I kid you not, we'resitting there eating. The tooth fell
on the table and. And I didn'tsay anything. I just quietly reached
my hand out, took the toothand put it in my pocket. He didn't
say anything. And it was. Itwas. And we. We. We. We actually.
(43:54):
We dated for a while, and itwas a. It was a horrible. I was like,
this is like, the momentwhere, like, in my head, I was like,
he must be thinking, like, IDo meth and like, my teeth are falling
out. Like, I don't know. Butyeah, my friend Catherine, she's
like, you live in, like, thisromance. She's like, who, Who What?
(44:14):
Who does that happen to? Yeah,there's a lot of little moments like
that where I think I feellike. Yeah, little moments. I've
had quite a few moments when Ifeel like I'm living, like, in a
silly. Like that just happenedkind of a. Kind of a vibe. Yeah.
All right, well, we'll call upWillem Dafoe and have him film that.
(44:37):
Make a romantic comedy out ofit while he plays the green Goblin.
While he plays the greenGoblin, Yes. Who likes to paint,
apparently.
It's a thing. It's a thing hedoes. Yeah.
No, that's. That's very funny.
Awesome. Well, Paul, it's beena delight talking with you. I want
(44:58):
to thank you so much forjoining us here on a creator podcast.
I'm going to do my get out ofJail Free card here. I call it my
get out of Jail Free cardquestion. Anything that I didn't
ask that you would like me to ask?
No, no, this has been. Thishas been a good. This has been fun
to chat with you too, and. Andkind of shoot the breeze on creativity
(45:21):
and art and everything. Yeah,no, I don't have anything specific.
Never have I ever thought thatWilliam Defoe as Monet would be as
interesting as it has. Hasbeen. So.
Yeah, good deal. Well, like Isaid, I'm calling his people up tonight,
(45:41):
so we'll get this set up andmake it happen. Cool. Well, again,
thank you, Paul, so much. Andthank you very much for joining us
here in Create our podcast.
I appreciate you having me on,Tim. It's been really fun.
All right, so that's theepisode. I want to thank Paul for
joining me here today onCreate Art podcast. Learned a lot
(46:03):
of great things, things fromhim and what he's doing and how he
is using acting in hiscreative process. And I think you
probably got a lot out of itas well, such as when we were talking
about creativity being atransformative tool for healing,
(46:23):
especially when you're goingthrough tough times. You heard how
we dove into the importance ofpushing through creative blocks and
comparing artists strugglesto, you know, the plumber's work
ethic, otherwise known asplumber's crack, and how collaboration
in the arts, you know, such asdance, where each partner is. It's
a dance where each partnerbrings their flair while respecting
(46:47):
each other's moves. We alsojoked about perfectionism and you
know, I think we bothsuggested embracing your inner child
and creating our evening. Youknow, like me when it looks like
a four year old on crack. Andwe discussed the role of directors
in the creative process andhow good communication can lead to
(47:08):
some amazing outcomes and, youknow, that can be relayed to any
artistic pursuit. So if you'rewondering how I get great guests
like Paul on my show, well, Iuse a service called PodMatch. And
what that does is that allows,you know, podcasters like myself
and guests to come together.Now I do receive a small commission
(47:32):
for it, but it allows us tocome together and create these wonderful
episodes for you. Now, Iwouldn't bring on anybody on the
show that I didn't feel youwere going to get something out of.
So yeah, I do get a smallcommission, but that doesn't influence
if I bring on a person or notfor the show. You can find my affiliate
(47:54):
link in the show notes if youwant to join up and do that. The
other thing that I use, andthis is mainly for my podcasters
that are out there that listento the show is a service called PodBeacon.
What they do is they provide awearable for you, such as a wristwatch
or a key fob or even abusiness card. And all the person
(48:15):
needs to do is put their phoneover that and it'll take them right
to your website. So check thatout. Podcast Beacon. And I have links
in the show notes for that,for my affiliate link for that. And
I just want to remind everyonethat this is a production of TKB
Podcast Studio. That is my newpodcast studio company that I started
(48:37):
up here in 2025. You can findout more information on that@tkb
podcast studio.com and that'swhere I help my clients, you know,
get through all the noise withquiet professionalism. If you're
thinking about starting up apodcast, check out the website, see
what I've done for other folksand let's see if we can work together.
(48:59):
Alright, that does it for mefor today. I need to get on with
my day. I need. I know youneed to get on with your day. So
go out there and tame thatinner critic. Create more than you
consume. Talk to your actorbuddies and go out there and make
some art for somebody. Youlove yourself. I'll talk with you
again real soon.
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