February 5, 2025 • 56 mins
Timothy Kimo Brien and Andrew Matthews engage in a thought-provoking dialogue that dives deep into the realm of creativity and resilience. Matthews, an internationally recognized author and speaker, shares his experiences of writing over a dozen books, including the highly influential 'Being Happy,' which has sold millions of copies worldwide. His philosophy intertwines humor with self-help, using cartoons to break down complex emotional and psychological concepts into digestible, relatable content. Brien and Matthews discuss how the visual elements in his books draw readers in, making the often daunting topics of happiness and resilience more accessible. Matthews' journey into self-help literature began with an exploration of happiness among people facing significant challenges, leading him to discover that the happiest individuals often encountered the most substantial adversities.
The episode also explores Matthews' creative process, revealing the differences between writing and artistic illustration. While writing allows for a more fluid expression of ideas, Matthews explains that drawing requires a different kind of focus and attention to detail. He shares practical tips for aspiring artists and writers alike, encouraging them to embrace the learning process and understand that mastery comes from consistent practice rather than inherent talent. This philosophy underlines Matthews' belief that creativity is a skill that can be cultivated, not just a gift bestowed upon a select few. The conversation is rich with anecdotes and insights that encourage listeners to pursue their passions, emphasizing that the journey of creativity is as important as the end product.
As the discussion progresses, the importance of community and mentorship in the creative journey becomes a focal point. Matthews stresses that being surrounded by individuals who actively engage in their crafts can provide invaluable support and inspiration. This aspect of the conversation resonates strongly with listeners, highlighting the need for connection in artistic endeavors. The episode wraps up with Matthews sharing stories from his interactions with readers and the profound impacts his work has had on their lives. By blending humor, personal stories, and practical advice, this episode serves as both an encouragement to those struggling with their creativity and a reminder that resilience is often built through shared experiences and community support.
Takeaways:
Andrew Matthews emphasizes the importance of simplicity in writing, ensuring that even a 12-year-old can understand the content.
Incorporating cartoons in self-help books makes complex ideas more accessible and engaging for readers.
Success for Matthews is defined by the joy of creating work that helps others, not just by sales figures.
The creative process involves both writing and drawing, but they require different levels of consideration and effort.
Connecting ideas to images enhances retention and makes learning more effective for audiences.
Persistence in the face of rejection is crucial; every 'no' brings you closer to a 'yes' in publishing.
Links referenced in this episode:
AndrewMatthews.com
Companies mentioned in this episode:
PodMatch
HSBC
Shell
Dell
Intel
Bio
Andrew Matthews' books, including BEING HAPPY!, have sold over 8 MILLION copies in 48 languages.
Andrew has addressed over 1000 corporations in 30 countries on attitude, enjoying work and resilience. His clients include McDonalds, Lenovo, Honda, Dell, Intel, HSBC, Motorola, Wal-Mart and Citibank.
Andrew's talent is in making complex ideas simple.
Andrew is popular with CEOs and surgeons, with teenagers and even prisoners.
Andrew's latest book is...
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Create Art Podcast InterviewAndrew Matthews. Hello, friend. This
is Timothy Keem O'Brien, yourhead instigator with Create Art Podcast,
where I bring to you my 30years of experience in the arts and
education world to help youtame your inner critic and create
(00:28):
more than you consume. So,just recently, I got an email from
Andrew Matthews on PodMatch. Iuse PodMatch to get great guests
to bring to you my listener.So that way we can, you know, not
just listen to my voice allthe time, but listen to other people
(00:51):
who are artists and encourageyou to go out there and create your
art. But let me talk to you alittle bit about Andrew here before
we get into the interview. SoAndrew is an Australian author and
international speaker. He hasa lot of books out. He's got about
12 books out, including BeingHappy, Follow your Heart and Bouncing
(01:14):
Back, and he sold 8 millioncopies in 48 languages. Now, he's
also presented to over athousand corporations in five continents
on attitude, enjoying work andresilience. And he also speaks at
universities and prisons allover the world. Now, from the time
(01:35):
that he emailed me to the timewe actually did the interview, it
was such a short time there.He did it right before he messaged
me, right before the holidayshere in the United States. And we
interviewed at the beginningof the year. And unfortunately, I
didn't get to read his book.But as of today, as of as I'm recording
(01:56):
this today, getting two of hisbooks, Being Happy is one of them
that I'm going to be getting.And he's been doing this for over
30 years, so he really has agreat vision for what he wants to
do with his life and hisartwork. And did I mention he lives
in Australia? So thescheduling for this, initially I
(02:17):
was like, oh, my gosh, how areyou going to schedule this? But he
was extremely flexible and Ireally appreciate the insights that
he brought in this interview.So I want to get out of the way here
and let you go ahead andlisten to the two of us talk about
his work and about hisviewpoint and his philosophies. Without
(02:38):
further ado, here's aninterview with myself and Andrew
Matthews. Andrew, how is it tomorrow?
Well, the sky is blue, whichis. It's here tomorrow, Timothy.
So yes, it should be blueskies for you tomorrow.
Excellent, excellent. And ifyou can give me the lottery numbers,
I'd be much in your debt.We'll split the money. Well, Andrew,
(03:04):
I want to. Again, thank youfor joining us on here. Wanted to
start right into the questionshere for you and One of the things,
and I do have to confess, Ihaven't picked up your book yet.
It's on the way, I've got itshipped to me. But one of the things
I wanted to ask you about is,you know, why do you choose to illustrate
your self help books with alot of cartoons? I know myself, when
(03:29):
I was having twins, I found aself help book that was called Being
Prepared and it looked like aBoy Scouts manual and had a lot of
images in it. And that reallyhelped me. But why do you do that?
You know, when I was 25, Imade this shocking discovery that
(03:49):
the happiest people I knew hadbigger problems than I did. And that
was a big shock to me. Andthat was what set me on this journey
of trying to figure out whatit is that happy people do and how
could I be a bit more likethem. And I began reading a lot of
books, maybe 200 or moreTimothy, books about attitude, books
(04:13):
about the subconscious, booksabout how we can be more successful.
And I found a lot of themreally boring. They would have often
good information. But I had abackground in drawing and painting.
I studied at the Art StudentsLeague of New York in the 1970s and
I'd been drawing andcartooning ever since until I got
(04:36):
really excited about personaldevelopment and the idea that we
could actually improve ourlife by doing some simple things.
So I thought, I've never seena self help book with cartoons in
it. And maybe if I can writein simple language and if I can illustrate
it with damn near a cartoon onevery double page somewhere, I would
(05:02):
create a book that people whodon't like self help books would
read. I would maybe create abook that people who don't read would
read. And it turned out to bea useful strategy. And many people
began to read my books anddiscover things about self help and
(05:25):
being happier that might neverhave picked up the books if they
didn't find my books that hada little cartoon on the front and
cartoons throughout.
That's awesome. Do you findthat you may, you probably answered
this in that first answer, butdo you find that people are more
(05:47):
interested in the book becauseof the cartoons, because of the drawings
and illustrations?
I do. And that translates alsointo corporate presentations. So
if I present to HSBC bank orShell or Dell or Intel, I will take
(06:08):
a big flip chart on stage andI will draw cartoons as I speak.
And there's like thiscollective sigh of relief that ah,
at least we're not got, youknow, at least we don't have the
same kind of talking head thatwe've had in the rest of the conference,
we can relax. And the thing isthat we absorb information and we
(06:31):
remember information that isconnected to images. And so what
I'm seeking to do is connectan idea to an image. For example,
in my latest book, BouncingBack right at the beginning, I've
got a cartoon of a guy, he'sclimbing a mountain and the sweat's
(06:51):
pouring off him and his dog issweating and he looks like he's just
about at it. And there's acaption there that says, what you
thought was breaking you isprobably making you. And someone
will see the expression on theguy's face and think, yeah, I feel
(07:13):
pretty much like him. Andmaybe it is true that those things
that we think are destroyingus are actually preparing us for
success and greaterresilience. So people, yeah, people
say, I read your book beinghappy 30 years ago and there was
(07:35):
a picture of an iceberg. And Istill remember that cartoon and what
it meant. And I carry that tothis day. So people do connect ideas
to the cartoons.
Absolutely. And I think a lotof us are of a visual learner. We're
(07:56):
very much nowadays, we're avery visual culture, you know, with
our phones in our face halfthe time and, you know, YouTube and
tick tock and all that kind ofgood stuff. We're definitely visual.
So that. Do you find that youcan tackle tougher topics, especially
in the resilience field?Because I actually, my day job is
(08:18):
working in resilience a littlebit. I deal more with finances than
what I like to call the softstuff. But is it easier to talk about
those difficult topics with an illustration?
I think so. People fairlyearly get the idea that the fellow
who wrote the book is the guywho created the cartoons. So I sense
(08:40):
that some readers will say,well, if he drew this funny cartoon,
then he can't be all bad, ormaybe he's. Maybe this is not going
to be too sort of elevated ortoo complicated. And so the other
thing that I find is helpfulin any kind of non fiction book is
if you can have headings thatbreak up the text so people can see
(09:03):
a heading, they can see acartoon. And they say, I just want
to bite into this little bit.I just want to read these two paragraphs.
And so it makes a book moreinviting. Because the thing is, Timothy,
that most people are verycomfortable with magazines and most
people are not so comfortablewith books. And if you can make a
(09:28):
book that's addressing aserious subject like bouncing back
or happiness in hard times, ifyou can make that book seem a little
bit more friendly and a bitmore accessible, then suddenly you're
reaching people who mayotherwise have said, no, I don't
want to concentrate that hard,or I don't want to have to struggle
(09:51):
through something that is justlike 50,000 words.
I have three unfinished novelsgoing on right now. So now I'm thinking
I need to put someillustrations in there because there
are a hundred thousand wordsand it's just a wall of words and
nobody's going to, you know,read it. So I might have to tap you
on the shoulder and go, canyou give me some illustrations? One
(10:13):
thing I wanted to do is askyou about kind of your creative process.
And mainly, you know, how doesyour creative process of writing
differ from that creativeprocess of drawing and painting?
How are those a little bit different?
Here's what I believe aboutwriting. That we are essentially
(10:35):
organizing words and makingsenses every hour of our life. And
so we are all very familiarwith words and we have a way of communicating
which works for us. And Ishare it from this point of view
because I'm hoping that ourlisteners are going to say, yeah,
that makes sense. And I don'tneed to put writing on some kind
(10:58):
of pedestal anymore. You allhave a way of arranging words and
using words and choosing wordsthat works for you. And when you
sit down to write something,you don't need to change it. Maybe
you need to clean it up, maybeyou need to do it more carefully.
But what works for you whenyou're talking to your neighbour
(11:21):
can work for you when you arewriting a poem, or when you are writing
an introduction to a book, orwhen you're writing your novel. And
for me, with that kind ofunderstanding, I've just got three
rules for myself when I writeand I don't make it any more complicated
(11:42):
than that. Number one is Iwant to write so a 12 year old can
understand what I'm saying. Idon't necessarily write for 12 year
olds, but I want a 12 year oldto understand the message. Number
two is I feel that there's akind of a rhythm in any arrangement
of sentences. And often it canbe that we have a mixture of short
(12:05):
sentences and long sentences.So when you read it, you just say,
this kind of feels nice as Iread through this paragraph. The
other thing I believe is thatmostly shorter words are more powerful
than big words. And too manyadjectives and too many adverbs just
tend to take away the power ofwhatever we're writing. So the Fact
(12:32):
is that when we were studyingEnglish in maybe grade school, our
teachers were trying to get usto develop our vocabulary. So anytime
we use big words and unusualwords, then our, our marks went up
and we thought, this isterrific. But now that we have a
(12:53):
vocabulary and we don't needto prove it to anyone, our readers
don't really care how big ourvocabulary is. So for those of us
who write or want to write fora living, keeping it simple, finding
a rhythm, and not using toomany adjectives and adverbs, I think
(13:13):
is really helpful in creatingsomething that is interesting and
powerful. I contrast that withwhen I sit down to draw a cartoon
or paint a portrait. Andthat's not something that I've been
doing every hour of my lifesince I was born. And I tend to give
(13:38):
a lot more carefulconsideration to issues of composition
and light on form andperspective and anatomy. And so I'm.
I draw upon all the mistakesI've made and some of the successes
I've had in the last 50 yearsto create something. I do a lot more
(13:58):
thinking about my cartooningor my painting that I would have
with my writing in terms oftrying to figure it out and create
a way through.
Can you describe to me like, arecent piece or project that was
particularly challenging orrewarding, and that can be any of
the 12 books that you have orany other works that you're working
(14:21):
on right now?
One of the most challengingthings was trying to get published
in the initial instance.Timothy My first book, my first manuscript
was a children's book. And I'dheard that it can be really difficult
to get published. So I hadthis genius strategy. I thought rather
(14:41):
than send my manuscript off toa publisher and wait and see if they
liked it, I got a list of thebiggest, most likely publishers in
the world. And I created 60versions of my manuscript, my children's
book, And I sent them out allat once. And I thought at least five
(15:05):
are going to like it, or maybethree, and then I will choose. Okay?
So I sent off thesemanuscripts all over the world. And
within a couple of weeks Istarted to get the slips, the rejection
slips. And soon I had 10, andthen 25 and 37 and 49 and 55 and
(15:31):
57. On 58, I'm 59 and 60 and61. Somebody wrote to me twice and
said, forget it.
And not only no, but we'regoing to tell you no twice.
(15:52):
So I thought, well, I probablyneed another book. And it was about
then that I got excited aboutwriting a, a self Help book, which
was Being Happy. And I sentthat off to a much more selective
group of publishers, 17, andthey all said no.
(16:13):
Wow.
But publisher number 18, andmany of them said, we don't, you
know, we don't see why you'recreating this self help book with
cartoons in them. Publishernumber 18 that I sent Being Happy
to said we want more cartoons.We want to create this book that
(16:35):
feels friendly and accessible.And so I think I ended up drawing
like 75 cartoons for beinghappy. And publisher number 18 sold
3 million copies of beingHappy. So I learned a couple of things.
Number one is, yes, it can bedifficult to get published, but keep
(16:56):
doing what you love. There's alot of reasons to write a book that
are beyond whether or not it'sa bestseller. Certainly we get a
sense to come to understandwhat it is that we love and what
it is that we care about whenwe, what, what do we think is important
and, and just, you know, ifyou never quit, then at some stage
(17:21):
somebody is going to say yes.And here's the other thought, Timothy,
that people don't know whatthey want until they see it. And
there weren't books about,there weren't even books about happiness
back in 1988, but therecertainly weren't self help books
(17:41):
with cartoons in. And nobodywas running around saying we need
a self help book with cartoonsin it. But once it was out there,
suddenly we found that a lotof people said this is really nice
and this is a friendly bookthat I can give to a friend. So yes,
(18:01):
people aren't very often. Andthat applies to all of us. For those
of you that are listening andyou're saying is what I'm doing is,
is this something that isgoing to be embraced and enjoyed?
People don't know what theywant until you create it.
(18:23):
Absolutely. And then you haveto put it out to the audience. You
have to put it out into theworld so that that way they can discover
it. Because if you keep it toyourself, if I kept all these wonderful
paintings to myself in my room here.
Yes.
Nobody would ever see them.But that's why we got to put it out
there and have those rejectionslips come in, have those 60 rejections.
(18:47):
61. You only not sent out 60.That's why we need that to keep going
because people will find usspeaking about, you know, about that
kind of in that vein for you,what does success look like? And
that's, it's a lot of thingsfor a lot of different people. Some
(19:10):
people want to be on the newYork Times bestseller list, you know,
for a year or two. But foryou, what does that success look
like?
Number one is that I'm able todo the things that I love. And there
are many people who may havesold more books or they're many people
(19:31):
who have made more money. Butfor me, the joy of the creative process
is what fires me up. Wantingto get up every day and say, I can
create a cartoon or I canwrite a paragraph that is going to
reach somebody or helpsomebody. It'll mean something to
(19:52):
me. Firstly, I've got to feelthat, you know, this expresses an
idea in a way that is usefuland helpful and perhaps funny or
witty. For me, the value of itis that I can put ideas into a book
or a newsletter and someonewill read that and they will be encouraged.
(20:16):
And so number one is beingable to do the work that I love and
I find meaningful. The bonusfor me is that because my books are
now in 48 languages and I'vebeen writing books for now 35 years,
I'm fortunate that I getemails and messages from readers
(20:42):
almost every day. And sopeople will say, you know, like,
I had a woman contact me fromSingapore and she said, I was broke
and I was living with myparents and I was sick and I went
to the doctor and your bookBeing Happy was on the coffee table
(21:04):
of the waiting room. And I gotto read seven pages before the doctor
called me in and I said, I'vegot to read that book. And she said,
I borrowed the money because Iwas $100,000 in debt. And suddenly
I had a different attitude andI started cooking for my neighbors
(21:27):
and charging them and then Istarted cooking for other people.
And she said, now I own arestaurant and I own a bakery and
I have a multi million dollarbusiness. And next time I was in
Singapore, I went and ate inher Noosh noodle bar on the Singapore
(21:49):
Esplanade. Just, just the mostwonderful food. So little stories
like that make me want to getup every day and say, just one idea
can change your life, canchange our direction. It doesn't
mean, of course, that I wrotesomething. It doesn't mean that I
(22:10):
changed their life, but itmeant that something that I was maybe
able to phrase in a differentway, package. I guess what I do is
package ideas with simplemessages and cartoons. Someone will
write to me and say, yeah,thank you.
(22:31):
That is awesome. You must havebeen reading my mind because my next
question was going to be, howdo you approach connecting with your
audience? But the story of thelady In Singapore. That's a book
all in of itself right there.I mean, gosh, are you maybe collecting
some of these stories andperhaps that's, you know, book number
(22:53):
1413.
A number of these stories arein my latest book, Bouncing Back.
For example, there was a guyfrom Mexico that called me with a
help of a translator,anticipating that my Spanish would
not be so good. And he wantedto tell me that he read being happy.
(23:13):
He was so inspired to set somegoals that would make a difference
to his life, that he rode abicycle around the world. And it
took him two years to preparefor it and two years to ride around
the world. And I think he wentthrough 22 sets of bicycle tires
(23:34):
and something like six bicycleseats and I don't know what else.
And he met Bill Clinton andMichael Jordan and Paulo Coelo and
the Pope. And you know, justwho, who would imagine.
I'm waiting for the joke onthat. All four of those people walk
into a bar.
Yeah. So who would imaginethat someone reads a book and then
(23:59):
goes and does that? So. Andthen often it's just other stories.
A woman wrote to me from myown state of Queensland in Australia
and said, my husband, whonever reads, picked up your book
from our coffee table andstarted quoting you. And he's been
happier ever since. Thank you.You know, it's little things like
that.
(24:20):
That is awesome. And you know,that makes, that just encourages
me to finish up my novels andfinish up my work and get it out
there and learn how to draw.Speaking about learning how to draw,
I have said it many times onthe show here. I paint like a four
year old on crack. That's kindof my, you know, that's my shtick.
But I'm happy that I paintlike a four year old on crack. How
(24:45):
do people go out there andlearn how to draw? A, how to draw
and then B, how to draw better.
Yeah. Okay. I preface this bythe question is always, do you draw
what you see? And it comesdown to what our listeners want to
do. And so there was anincident that happened with my art
(25:09):
teacher at the Art StudentsLeague where a woman, we were drawing
life drawing and there was anattractive nude model. And a woman
had faithfully drawn the veryattractive nude model. And there
was a, a big black smudge markright across her like naval belly
(25:30):
button stomach. And he, theteacher was a little confused because
it didn't seem to be on themodel. And then he looked up and
there was a cat sitting on theskylight casting a shadow onto the
model.
Wow.
And you know, obviously, youknow, the, what we understand there
(25:53):
is the artist is not alwaysgoing to draw what the artist sees,
because in that instance therewas the classic example of something
that you are better offleaving out. But in, in many, many
cases, we don't draw so wellbecause we draw what we think is
(26:14):
there, we don't draw what wesee. One of the classic examples
is you get maybe a mother thatdecides she wants to do a little
portrait of her three year oldand because she knows that the nose
is the longest thing on theface, she draws this portrait of
her three year old with whatshe knows instead of what she sees.
(26:36):
And the three year old looksabout 40 because she's drawing the
long nose which, which is notin front of her, but she's drawing
what she, what she thinks. Andso if for those of our listeners
who are saying, I would liketo, you know, draw, I want to draw
realism, I want to create aportrait that looks like my husband
(26:59):
or my friend, it's alwaysgoing back to this question of am
I actually reproducing what isin front of me or am I seeming to
draw what I know? And we havecountless examples that where the
hair meets the forehead isusually a very soft line. But, but
(27:23):
artists who are just beginningwill make it a hard line. And the
hair then looks like a wig orthere is, there's no real line with
where the lips meet the flesh.But if we draw what we know, we put
a line there and then we say,why doesn't it look like Timothy?
So number one is that webecome especially vigilant. Am I
(27:45):
drawing what I know or am Idrawing what I see? And that never
stops because we're alwaysmaking assumptions which may not
be entirely correct. The otherthing that I would share is that
when it comes to light andshade, there are really three shapes
(28:05):
on which we build everything.And we need to understand how the
light moves on a sphere, howit moves from the light and into
the dark and into thereflected light. And we need to understand
how that same light moves on acylinder, how it happens on a cube.
(28:27):
And everything that you everdraw is going to be a combination
of those shapes. An arm is acylinder. The top of the head is
a sphere. The knee is in manyways a little bit like a cube. It's
quite a square looking thing.If we talk about body parts and a
(28:49):
tree is a cylinder, andwhether you're talking about Rembrandt
or Vermeer Constable, it's alltheir knowledge comes back to this
thorough understanding of howlight moves on those three shapes.
I really tuned in with thefirst thing you were saying. We draw
(29:14):
what we see. The reason why Iget into that is we had in my undergrad
years, I took a intro todrawing class because I didn't want
to draw stick figures anymore.I figured I was 20 some odd years
old. I don't want to drawstick figures anymore. I want to
learn how to draw. And we hadthis great instructor. He was a transfer
(29:38):
student from the uk. Playedreally loud techno music, really
fast techno music throughoutthe whole class. Really loud. And
his thing to us was draw whatyou see. And he would take these
chairs, put a tarp over themand he would say, draw that. And
(29:59):
he. Every 10 minutes he wouldhave a switch seats and we'd have
to, you know, go to the nextperson seat and draw where they left
off. And I thought that wasone of the greatest exercises to
do because you're constantlymoving around and you don't have
time to process and judge kindof what you're seeing. You just have
(30:23):
time to draw what you seeright there in front of you. And
is that kind of what you'retalking about? There is to suspend
that judgment of what weaccept as accepted beauty.
Yeah, that we make all kindsof assumptions. We make assumptions,
for example, that shadows arebrown or black, which they're not.
(30:43):
They tend to be inphotographs, and photographs never
do justice to the beauty ofshadows. But a shadow is usually
going to be a darker versionof what the shadow is cast on. It's
also going to be. If a shadowis on a blue shirt, then the shadow
will be a little bit warmerthan the blue because there's less
(31:06):
light to emphasize the bloom.If the shadow is on a red shirt,
then the shadow will be coolerthan the red shirt because there's
less light to emphasize withinthe shadow. So people who have been
painting a little longer andhave learned that shadows aren't
(31:26):
brown or black, suddenly theirpaintings begin to sing because they
now know that they don't paintwhat they believe it is. They paint
what they see. It is.
That you know that, oh mygosh. Now I want to go do some paintings
(31:46):
because I'm a big fan of BobRoss. I don't know if he's popular
in Australia or not, but theway he does the shadows on his mountain,
where he'll do the highlight,you know, in kind of a titanium white
and then the. The shadow ofthe mountain is kind of a blue and
(32:09):
a white. How you describethat. And I've been watching Bob
Ross, for. I would prefer notto say how many decades, but a number
of decades and how youdescribed it. Now, that all makes
sense to me. I need to go getthree copies of each and every one
of your books. That's just theend of that. That. No, but that really
(32:30):
helps me out entirely.
It is so exciting whensuddenly someone helps us to make
a breakthrough and we moveimmediately to a different level
because we understandsomething about shadows or. And it
is always the basics, Timothy.It's. It's doing the basics better.
(32:53):
I mean, if you're on thetennis court, it's about your footwork
and watching the ball. And ifyou're drawing a tree or a dog, then
it's how well do you executethe basics? And here's something
that I would share, and it isthat every one of us, whether we're
(33:15):
writing something or whetherwe're drawing a landscape, there
will be a point where we startto struggle, and we might start to
have those little thoughtscome into our mind. Well, obviously,
Rembrandt could do this,because he was Rembrandt, or Vermeer
could do this, or Hemingwaycould do this. And it's then that
(33:41):
we need to say to ourselves,this is not magic. There is a way
to draw this nose. There is away to write this first sentence
that I haven't figured outyet. And I can figure it out. And
Rembrandt had the same paperand the same light and the same brushes
(34:02):
and the same paint that Ihave. It is not magic. I will figure
it out. And we need to do thatmaybe sometimes a dozen times within
the same painting, where wejust knuckle down and we say, I can
do this. And I believe thatpeople who turn their passion into
(34:27):
their career are people whorefuse to say, well, it's because,
you know, it was Andy Warhol,he could do that. But I can't. No,
you can do it.
Is the. Because I know, forme, being an artist, that magic that
(34:47):
you speak of, I can't go to.My wife hates it. She's a theater
person, too. I can't go to alive theater show and not have notes
for everything that happens. Iused to be a lighting designer, and
I can tell when a lightingdesigner is trying to get me to look
over here instead of overthere or feel this way or feel that
(35:08):
way. So the magic of notknowing that's happening, that's
actually. That magic is gonefrom me, because I know how to do
it. Yeah, I did it myself. Butis the magic then knowing that I
can do that. Is that themagic, then, that. That you're going
(35:31):
for as an artist?
Yes. Say, for example, let'stake an example of. We come across
a painting hanging on a wall,and there is a stunning piece of
sunlight coming through theclouds and illuminating something
in the middle distance. And wethink that is just, you know, it's
(35:54):
just extraordinary. It's likeit's done with something more than
paint. And we say, you know,it's almost like magic. How did they
get that light to just sing?And the fact is, what they did was,
in the rest of the painting,there was no light, anything like
(36:15):
that little patch in themiddle distance. And not only that,
all of the values in the wholepainting were very, very close together.
So that when you have a fairlyuniform kind of painting in its tonality,
and then in that one piece inthe middle distance, you introduce
(36:38):
that burst of light comingthrough the clouds. It just blows
your mind. But what happenswhen the first time we try to paint
a painting that's going tohave that kind of impact? Then we're
getting the titanium white,we're putting it everywhere. We think,
you know, if a little bitworks, then look what I can do on
everything. And it's a littlebit like if you're shouting all the
(37:02):
time, people can't hear you.
That's true. That is true. Ilove that. I love that. What is the
ideal mindset to improve ourartwork, or improve anything at all,
for that matter? But whatmindset should we be in to get from
(37:24):
a person that can draw a stickfigure to somebody that can draw
something that's worthy ofbeing on the Sistine Chapel?
Well, if we love. First ofall, we've got to love it, because
there's going to be lots ofroadblocks and lots of days when
we think this is too hard. Soyou just have to love it. The adventure
(37:46):
of learning and putting in ourbest effort, whether it's a book
or a painting or a play or apiece of music, you've just got to
feel that I'm blessed to beable to do this whenever I can. Part
of it is, as I mentionedearlier, not bowing down to other
people that have achieved andsay, well, they did it, because that's
(38:10):
them and I'm only me andthey're famous and I'm not. That
there's a way to do this.Whatever it is I'm trying to do now,
I haven't figured it out yet,but it's not magic. I can do that.
Part of it is if we can getaround people who make their living
doing what we want to do. Ifyour goal is to be a professional
(38:32):
artist and you can spend alittle extra time around a teacher
or help them or assist them inclasses, if you can assist somebody
who's making a living at it,to set up an exhibition, if you want
to be a professional musicianand you can help another professional
(38:53):
musician, go and set up and bethere and cut their equipment. And
if you can get the belieffirstly, that everyday people make
their living at this, that isthe first step. And then from that
point you start to say, well,that can be me. And I can. I can
(39:16):
be a published author or I canstart to sell my paintings. So a
lot of it is having thatenvironment in that respect. Timothy,
I was very lucky because myfather was a professional landscape
painter for 30 years. And someof the people I knew best growing
up and as a young adult werepeople who made a living as an artist,
(39:42):
as painting in oils,watercolors, landscapes. I knew that
it was possible. So for me, Iwas not especially courageous. I
just grew up knowing thatpeople can do this. And for those
(40:03):
of us who aren't around otherpeople who are making their living
in the arts, it's importantthat we can get around people who
are actually doing it. Notpeople that are just talking about
it or people that we can see.These people are feeding their families
doing this.
(40:23):
Something I picked up fromthat. Not people that are talking
about it, but people that areactually doing it. I know my experiences.
I've. I went through academia,and there was a lot of talk through
academia, and I have thestudent loans to prove it. I was
there for so many years, andthere's a lot of people talking about
(40:44):
doing things, but not a lot ofpeople actually going out and doing
things. And it was funny to mebecause I'm a theater guy. That's
what my degree's in. Andseeing other people talking about
theater, but never going outand standing in front of a crowd
or anything like that. Andthat's something that this talk that
(41:07):
we're having here is reallyresonating with me, is we need to
surround ourselves with peoplethat are actually doing versus talking.
Yeah. And therein lies one ofthe challenges of being surrounded
with academia is that thereare people who, I mean, they can
(41:27):
make a living teaching it. Andwe may see a parallel thing with.
There's a lot of people thatteach business that have never had
one. And I tell you what, whenyou have a business and you see,
Timothy, I've never had a job.Not for one week of my life did I
ever have a paycheck and thatI'm 67 now, so I've never had a job.
(41:52):
I'm 67. And for all my lifesince I left the Art Students League
of New York, I've been eitherpainting or drawing or writing books
or giving presentations ortrying to figure out which project
next was going to feed me.And, and you learn a lot about what's
(42:12):
possible. And you also have toknuckle down and do the things that
are going to feed you and paythe rent. And when you are around
people who are doing that,then you start to understand this
is possible.
When you're out there andshowing your work and, you know,
(42:33):
either in a gallery or talkingto somebody on a podcast, you know,
that's living in Virginiaunder 3ft of snow, or somebody from
Singapore, you know, writinginto you and telling you about, hey,
because of you, I, I have arestaurant now and I'm a millionaire
now. What's the one questionthat you wish people would ask you
(42:57):
about your work? And theyrarely or never do.
You know, I don't know thatI've ever. I don't know that I've
ever had that thought. Thethrill for me is that people read
my books and enjoy my cartoonsand take a message that helps them.
(43:24):
I so enjoy the process ofwriting. And once I've written the
book, then that's like, I'vefinished the main course, so now
I can have the dessert, then Ican do the cartoons, which is like
the super fun bit of theexercise. And I just feel so blessed
to be able to share ideas thathave impacted me and tell stories
(43:48):
about people that haveinspired me. And then people come
back to me and, and say, thiswas really helpful. The one thing
that people say that sometimesirritates me is they say to me, you
are so talented. And I've beenpracticing drawing for 50 years.
(44:13):
And I think that explains whyI can go on stage and draw a cartoon
in a minute that people thinkis delightful. And even though I
write very simply, I willstill probably only write a page
or two in a day. And I willkeep on rearranging that and inserting
(44:36):
and deleting sentences until Ihave something that works. And it's
way more about effort than anyGod given talent. It's much more
about some kind of brutedetermination, I guess. But it's
not for my sake that I wishthat they wouldn't say, you're so
talented. It's for their sakebecause I want people to understand
(45:01):
that you see somebody who'smaybe singing beautifully or painting
beautifully, and it all seemsto be flowing. It may be flowing,
but there's an extraordinaryamount of effort and preparation
that went into that.
Do you think they are usingthe word talent or talented as an
(45:26):
excuse for themselves to nottry? Because, you know, they can
look at you and go, you know,well, he's so talented. He's got
12 books out. And, you know, Icould never do that. And they're
using that as an excuse versusputting in the work and writing 12
(45:47):
books.
Yes, I believe to a greater orlesser degree, many, many people
say I haven't got the talent,and so I'm not going to try. And
if we go back to that drawingexample, if you just spend an hour
examining what it is that yousee, was it Betty Edwards that wrote
(46:11):
the book how to Draw on theRight side of the Brain, where you
actually draw everythingupside down, which is the perfect
demonstration of how it isthat we draw according to our assumptions.
And most people will draw waybetter when they turn whatever it
is they're drawing upsidedown. So, yes, that's the perfect
example of. It's not so muchabout talent, but our preconceptions.
(46:37):
Awesome. Awesome. Now, you'vepresented to, you know, thousands
of corporations and, you know,it done big conventions and all that
kind of stuff. How doessomebody. How do you go about doing
that? I. I've. I've actuallyhad two guests on this show here
(46:59):
that do something similar tothat, where they'll go to a. Like
a corporate meeting orsomething like that, and they will
draw and they'll makeillustrations for what's actually
going on. But how do you get.How do you get a job? Well, not because
you don't work a regular job,but how does somebody get involved
(47:23):
in that? How would, how doyou. How did you start that?
Okay, well, that evolved whenmy books became popular. So as. As
being Happy began to gettraction, I would be initially invited
into. Where my books firststarted selling was in Singapore.
So I'd be invited into, like,Hewlett Packard or a bunch of high
(47:45):
schools to come and talk aboutsome of the main principles in your
book Being Happy. And so Ilearned early on that people really
enjoyed associating thoseideas with a cartoon. So I would
start with the little jumpingguy on the COVID of my book, and
I would draw that before, andmaybe he'd be with a dog and, you
(48:08):
know, something else, but Iwould draw that before I would even
begin speaking. And so I walkon stage I play music and I draw
a cartoon and people think,wow, this is, this is unusual. This
is great. And whether you'retalking to brain surgeons or whether
you're talking to maximumsecurity prisoners, which I also
(48:28):
speak to, there's this sigh ofrelief that says, this is going to
be fun. This is different. Andso what I will, what I will do is
as I go through my. And I'mtalking about, for example, and resilience,
taking responsibility and notblaming your mother for your happiness
and why goals are helpful. Andmaybe gratitude is great because
(48:52):
you can't be miserable. Youcan't be grateful and miserable at
the same time. Or some ofthese ideas that I'll be sharing,
I'll be drawing on this bigflip chart on stage and I usually
start at the wrong end of thedrawing. So they have no idea what
it's going to be. And it keepseveryone engaged. And it's a nice
(49:14):
way of presenting a keynote presentation.
That is awesome. I actuallyhave to do one of those keynote presentations
in March for my day job, so Imight be stealing some ideas from
you there, borrowing, as weartists like to do from each other.
(49:35):
Well, Andrew, this has been afantastic conversation that we've
had. I want to thank you sovery much for joining me here on
Create Art Podcast. Is thereany question that you wanted me to
ask that I did not pop out for you?
Not at all, Timothy. This hasbeen a delight. What I would say
is for those of our listenerswho would like to see one of my cartoons,
(49:59):
every two weeks I do anewsletter where I share a couple
of sentences about beinghappier and include a cartoon. So
if you would like to have alook at that, then you can get my
newsletter@AndrewMatthews.comthat's my website and my books are
(50:21):
all on Amazon in if you thinkI'd like to explore some of these
ideas a little further. Sobooks like Being Happy, follow your
heart bouncing back on Amazonin both Kindle and Hard Copy. And
a couple of them are also onAudible. If you enjoy books with
an Australian accent.
(50:44):
Who doesn't? If you don'tenjoy books with an Australian accent,
then don't listen to thispodcast. Well, Andrew, we will make
sure that all of those linksare in the show notes for all of
our listeners here.Definitely. Everyone go check out
all of Andrew's books and geton that newsletter for yourself.
(51:05):
And Andrew, again, thank youso very much for joining me here
today. I hope you have awonderful rest of your day.
It's been such a pleasure,Timothy. Thanks So much.
All right, well, thanks forsticking around and taking a listen
to that interview. I hope yougot a lot of great ideas and a lot
of great insights out of thisinterview. And if you want want to
(51:28):
go ahead and contact Andrew,all the links are in the show notes
there for you. Definitelycheck out his newsletter and go buy
a book or three or 12. Youknow, they make great stocking stuffers.
And if you don't know whatelse to do for somebody, go buy a
book. So, as I mentioned atthe beginning of the episode, I met
(51:51):
Andrew through PodMatch. Andin the show notes, I do have my affiliate
link with podmatch, and that'show I get such great guests on the
show. And, you know, if youwant to be a guest on multiple shows,
not only this one, but onother shows, definitely check Pod
Match Out. You're going to behooked up with some great hosts,
(52:12):
and if you're a podcaster,you're going to get some great guests.
Now, I do receive a tinylittle bit of a commission for this,
so I do need to disclose thatto you. But, you know, it's not something
that, you know, I'm gonna quitmy day job with. But, you know, I
just. I like to be open andhonest with you on that. So check
out podmatch. If you are aguest. If you're an artist, there's
(52:35):
a ton of hosts out there thatwant to have you on their show. Or
if you're a host, there's aton of guests out there that you
can get referred to, andyou're gonna get people just like
I got. So definitely check itout for yourself. The next thing
I like to talk about is makingyour podcast easier to share. And
(52:56):
I do that through anothergroup called Podcast Beacon. And
what that is is it's a littlewristband that you can have imprinted
with your logo on it, and allpeople have to do is wave their phone
over that, over thatwristband, and it'll take him, Take
that person right to yourwebsite. So instead of handing out
(53:18):
business cards or QR codes andall that stuff, definitely check
out Podcast Beacon. Links arein the show notes. Yes, I do receive
a small commission from thatif you use my affiliate link, but
I wouldn't promote it unless Ithought it was really worth your
while. So if you're apodcaster out there needing to find
a better way to share yourpodcast with folks, check out Podcast
(53:42):
Beacon. All right? And thentalking about reaching out and sharing
the podcast with folks. If yougot something onto this podcast I
definitely would love it ifyou shared it with a friend. Maybe
they are from Australia andthey like books on resilience and
being happy. Whatever it is,feel free to go ahead and share this
podcast episode with them orshare the whole podcast with them,
(54:05):
whichever is appropriate foryou. You can reach out to me directly.
Timothyartpodcast.com I'd loveto hear about what you're doing in
your neck of the woods andyour journey and I would love to
have you on the show. That waywe can share it with everybody. So
definitely reach out to me,let me know what you think and then
also let me know what youthink about the show. Is the music
(54:26):
too long? Do I have too manyguests? Not enough guests. Definitely
let me know what, what youthink about the show. And there's
another way you can do that.I'm actually running a survey. It's
called the 2024 listenersurvey. I know we're in 2025. I'll
eventually get around tochanging that. But the link is in
the show notes there for you.Just takes a few minutes. It helps
(54:48):
me make this show a five starshow without you having to, you know,
go to your app and go, oh,hey, that's five stars. Maybe your
app doesn't allow you to dothat. It helps me make the show better
for you and more what you wantto hear. Because that's what I'm
here for for sure. Andspeaking about sharing the show with
(55:08):
a friend, I have another showcalled Find a Podcast about and that's
where I help you outsmart thealgorithm and find your next binge
worthy podcast. You can findit at findapodcastabout xyz. And
for all of my projects you cancheck out my portfolio website and
that's with my productioncompany, TKB Podcast Studio. And
(55:30):
that's where I help my clientsthrough quiet professionalism, lead
through the noise. Go to thewebsite tkbpodcaststudio.com and
get all the information there.Okay? I want to thank Andrew Matthews
again for his generosity ofknowledge and spirit and enthusiasm
(55:51):
about writing and aboutresilience. And now it's time for
me to let you go off into theworld and do what you need to do.
I'm going to go ahead and dowhat I need to do here today, but
go out there, tame that innercritic. Create more than you consume
and go out there make some artfor somebody you love. Yourself.
(56:13):
I'll talk to you next time.
Create Art Podcast InterviewAndrew Matthews. Hello, friend. This
is Timothy Keem O'Brien, yourhead instigator with Create Art Podcast,
where I bring to you my 30years of experience in the arts and
education world to help youtame your inner critic and create
(00:28):
more than you consume. So,just recently, I got an email from
Andrew Matthews on PodMatch. Iuse PodMatch to get great guests
to bring to you my listener.So that way we can, you know, not
just listen to my voice allthe time, but listen to other people
(00:51):
who are artists and encourageyou to go out there and create your
art. But let me talk to you alittle bit about Andrew here before
we get into the interview. SoAndrew is an Australian author and
international speaker. He hasa lot of books out. He's got about
12 books out, including BeingHappy, Follow your Heart and Bouncing
(01:14):
Back, and he sold 8 millioncopies in 48 languages. Now, he's
also presented to over athousand corporations in five continents
on attitude, enjoying work andresilience. And he also speaks at
universities and prisons allover the world. Now, from the time
(01:35):
that he emailed me to the timewe actually did the interview, it
was such a short time there.He did it right before he messaged
me, right before the holidayshere in the United States. And we
interviewed at the beginningof the year. And unfortunately, I
didn't get to read his book.But as of today, as of as I'm recording
(01:56):
this today, getting two of hisbooks, Being Happy is one of them
that I'm going to be getting.And he's been doing this for over
30 years, so he really has agreat vision for what he wants to
do with his life and hisartwork. And did I mention he lives
in Australia? So thescheduling for this, initially I
(02:17):
was like, oh, my gosh, how areyou going to schedule this? But he
was extremely flexible and Ireally appreciate the insights that
he brought in this interview.So I want to get out of the way here
and let you go ahead andlisten to the two of us talk about
his work and about hisviewpoint and his philosophies. Without
(02:38):
further ado, here's aninterview with myself and Andrew
Matthews. Andrew, how is it tomorrow?
Well, the sky is blue, whichis. It's here tomorrow, Timothy.
So yes, it should be blueskies for you tomorrow.
Excellent, excellent. And ifyou can give me the lottery numbers,
I'd be much in your debt.We'll split the money. Well, Andrew,
(03:04):
I want to. Again, thank youfor joining us on here. Wanted to
start right into the questionshere for you and One of the things,
and I do have to confess, Ihaven't picked up your book yet.
It's on the way, I've got itshipped to me. But one of the things
I wanted to ask you about is,you know, why do you choose to illustrate
your self help books with alot of cartoons? I know myself, when
(03:29):
I was having twins, I found aself help book that was called Being
Prepared and it looked like aBoy Scouts manual and had a lot of
images in it. And that reallyhelped me. But why do you do that?
You know, when I was 25, Imade this shocking discovery that
(03:49):
the happiest people I knew hadbigger problems than I did. And that
was a big shock to me. Andthat was what set me on this journey
of trying to figure out whatit is that happy people do and how
could I be a bit more likethem. And I began reading a lot of
books, maybe 200 or moreTimothy, books about attitude, books
(04:13):
about the subconscious, booksabout how we can be more successful.
And I found a lot of themreally boring. They would have often
good information. But I had abackground in drawing and painting.
I studied at the Art StudentsLeague of New York in the 1970s and
I'd been drawing andcartooning ever since until I got
(04:36):
really excited about personaldevelopment and the idea that we
could actually improve ourlife by doing some simple things.
So I thought, I've never seena self help book with cartoons in
it. And maybe if I can writein simple language and if I can illustrate
it with damn near a cartoon onevery double page somewhere, I would
(05:02):
create a book that people whodon't like self help books would
read. I would maybe create abook that people who don't read would
read. And it turned out to bea useful strategy. And many people
began to read my books anddiscover things about self help and
(05:25):
being happier that might neverhave picked up the books if they
didn't find my books that hada little cartoon on the front and
cartoons throughout.
That's awesome. Do you findthat you may, you probably answered
this in that first answer, butdo you find that people are more
(05:47):
interested in the book becauseof the cartoons, because of the drawings
and illustrations?
I do. And that translates alsointo corporate presentations. So
if I present to HSBC bank orShell or Dell or Intel, I will take
(06:08):
a big flip chart on stage andI will draw cartoons as I speak.
And there's like thiscollective sigh of relief that ah,
at least we're not got, youknow, at least we don't have the
same kind of talking head thatwe've had in the rest of the conference,
we can relax. And the thing isthat we absorb information and we
(06:31):
remember information that isconnected to images. And so what
I'm seeking to do is connectan idea to an image. For example,
in my latest book, BouncingBack right at the beginning, I've
got a cartoon of a guy, he'sclimbing a mountain and the sweat's
(06:51):
pouring off him and his dog issweating and he looks like he's just
about at it. And there's acaption there that says, what you
thought was breaking you isprobably making you. And someone
will see the expression on theguy's face and think, yeah, I feel
(07:13):
pretty much like him. Andmaybe it is true that those things
that we think are destroyingus are actually preparing us for
success and greaterresilience. So people, yeah, people
say, I read your book beinghappy 30 years ago and there was
(07:35):
a picture of an iceberg. And Istill remember that cartoon and what
it meant. And I carry that tothis day. So people do connect ideas
to the cartoons.
Absolutely. And I think a lotof us are of a visual learner. We're
(07:56):
very much nowadays, we're avery visual culture, you know, with
our phones in our face halfthe time and, you know, YouTube and
tick tock and all that kind ofgood stuff. We're definitely visual.
So that. Do you find that youcan tackle tougher topics, especially
in the resilience field?Because I actually, my day job is
(08:18):
working in resilience a littlebit. I deal more with finances than
what I like to call the softstuff. But is it easier to talk about
those difficult topics with an illustration?
I think so. People fairlyearly get the idea that the fellow
who wrote the book is the guywho created the cartoons. So I sense
(08:40):
that some readers will say,well, if he drew this funny cartoon,
then he can't be all bad, ormaybe he's. Maybe this is not going
to be too sort of elevated ortoo complicated. And so the other
thing that I find is helpfulin any kind of non fiction book is
if you can have headings thatbreak up the text so people can see
(09:03):
a heading, they can see acartoon. And they say, I just want
to bite into this little bit.I just want to read these two paragraphs.
And so it makes a book moreinviting. Because the thing is, Timothy,
that most people are verycomfortable with magazines and most
people are not so comfortablewith books. And if you can make a
(09:28):
book that's addressing aserious subject like bouncing back
or happiness in hard times, ifyou can make that book seem a little
bit more friendly and a bitmore accessible, then suddenly you're
reaching people who mayotherwise have said, no, I don't
want to concentrate that hard,or I don't want to have to struggle
(09:51):
through something that is justlike 50,000 words.
I have three unfinished novelsgoing on right now. So now I'm thinking
I need to put someillustrations in there because there
are a hundred thousand wordsand it's just a wall of words and
nobody's going to, you know,read it. So I might have to tap you
on the shoulder and go, canyou give me some illustrations? One
(10:13):
thing I wanted to do is askyou about kind of your creative process.
And mainly, you know, how doesyour creative process of writing
differ from that creativeprocess of drawing and painting?
How are those a little bit different?
Here's what I believe aboutwriting. That we are essentially
(10:35):
organizing words and makingsenses every hour of our life. And
so we are all very familiarwith words and we have a way of communicating
which works for us. And Ishare it from this point of view
because I'm hoping that ourlisteners are going to say, yeah,
that makes sense. And I don'tneed to put writing on some kind
(10:58):
of pedestal anymore. You allhave a way of arranging words and
using words and choosing wordsthat works for you. And when you
sit down to write something,you don't need to change it. Maybe
you need to clean it up, maybeyou need to do it more carefully.
But what works for you whenyou're talking to your neighbour
(11:21):
can work for you when you arewriting a poem, or when you are writing
an introduction to a book, orwhen you're writing your novel. And
for me, with that kind ofunderstanding, I've just got three
rules for myself when I writeand I don't make it any more complicated
(11:42):
than that. Number one is Iwant to write so a 12 year old can
understand what I'm saying. Idon't necessarily write for 12 year
olds, but I want a 12 year oldto understand the message. Number
two is I feel that there's akind of a rhythm in any arrangement
of sentences. And often it canbe that we have a mixture of short
(12:05):
sentences and long sentences.So when you read it, you just say,
this kind of feels nice as Iread through this paragraph. The
other thing I believe is thatmostly shorter words are more powerful
than big words. And too manyadjectives and too many adverbs just
tend to take away the power ofwhatever we're writing. So the Fact
(12:32):
is that when we were studyingEnglish in maybe grade school, our
teachers were trying to get usto develop our vocabulary. So anytime
we use big words and unusualwords, then our, our marks went up
and we thought, this isterrific. But now that we have a
(12:53):
vocabulary and we don't needto prove it to anyone, our readers
don't really care how big ourvocabulary is. So for those of us
who write or want to write fora living, keeping it simple, finding
a rhythm, and not using toomany adjectives and adverbs, I think
(13:13):
is really helpful in creatingsomething that is interesting and
powerful. I contrast that withwhen I sit down to draw a cartoon
or paint a portrait. Andthat's not something that I've been
doing every hour of my lifesince I was born. And I tend to give
(13:38):
a lot more carefulconsideration to issues of composition
and light on form andperspective and anatomy. And so I'm.
I draw upon all the mistakesI've made and some of the successes
I've had in the last 50 yearsto create something. I do a lot more
(13:58):
thinking about my cartooningor my painting that I would have
with my writing in terms oftrying to figure it out and create
a way through.
Can you describe to me like, arecent piece or project that was
particularly challenging orrewarding, and that can be any of
the 12 books that you have orany other works that you're working
(14:21):
on right now?
One of the most challengingthings was trying to get published
in the initial instance.Timothy My first book, my first manuscript
was a children's book. And I'dheard that it can be really difficult
to get published. So I hadthis genius strategy. I thought rather
(14:41):
than send my manuscript off toa publisher and wait and see if they
liked it, I got a list of thebiggest, most likely publishers in
the world. And I created 60versions of my manuscript, my children's
book, And I sent them out allat once. And I thought at least five
(15:05):
are going to like it, or maybethree, and then I will choose. Okay?
So I sent off thesemanuscripts all over the world. And
within a couple of weeks Istarted to get the slips, the rejection
slips. And soon I had 10, andthen 25 and 37 and 49 and 55 and
(15:31):
57. On 58, I'm 59 and 60 and61. Somebody wrote to me twice and
said, forget it.
And not only no, but we'regoing to tell you no twice.
(15:52):
So I thought, well, I probablyneed another book. And it was about
then that I got excited aboutwriting a, a self Help book, which
was Being Happy. And I sentthat off to a much more selective
group of publishers, 17, andthey all said no.
(16:13):
Wow.
But publisher number 18, andmany of them said, we don't, you
know, we don't see why you'recreating this self help book with
cartoons in them. Publishernumber 18 that I sent Being Happy
to said we want more cartoons.We want to create this book that
(16:35):
feels friendly and accessible.And so I think I ended up drawing
like 75 cartoons for beinghappy. And publisher number 18 sold
3 million copies of beingHappy. So I learned a couple of things.
Number one is, yes, it can bedifficult to get published, but keep
(16:56):
doing what you love. There's alot of reasons to write a book that
are beyond whether or not it'sa bestseller. Certainly we get a
sense to come to understandwhat it is that we love and what
it is that we care about whenwe, what, what do we think is important
and, and just, you know, ifyou never quit, then at some stage
(17:21):
somebody is going to say yes.And here's the other thought, Timothy,
that people don't know whatthey want until they see it. And
there weren't books about,there weren't even books about happiness
back in 1988, but therecertainly weren't self help books
(17:41):
with cartoons in. And nobodywas running around saying we need
a self help book with cartoonsin it. But once it was out there,
suddenly we found that a lotof people said this is really nice
and this is a friendly bookthat I can give to a friend. So yes,
(18:01):
people aren't very often. Andthat applies to all of us. For those
of you that are listening andyou're saying is what I'm doing is,
is this something that isgoing to be embraced and enjoyed?
People don't know what theywant until you create it.
(18:23):
Absolutely. And then you haveto put it out to the audience. You
have to put it out into theworld so that that way they can discover
it. Because if you keep it toyourself, if I kept all these wonderful
paintings to myself in my room here.
Yes.
Nobody would ever see them.But that's why we got to put it out
there and have those rejectionslips come in, have those 60 rejections.
(18:47):
61. You only not sent out 60.That's why we need that to keep going
because people will find usspeaking about, you know, about that
kind of in that vein for you,what does success look like? And
that's, it's a lot of thingsfor a lot of different people. Some
(19:10):
people want to be on the newYork Times bestseller list, you know,
for a year or two. But foryou, what does that success look
like?
Number one is that I'm able todo the things that I love. And there
are many people who may havesold more books or they're many people
(19:31):
who have made more money. Butfor me, the joy of the creative process
is what fires me up. Wantingto get up every day and say, I can
create a cartoon or I canwrite a paragraph that is going to
reach somebody or helpsomebody. It'll mean something to
(19:52):
me. Firstly, I've got to feelthat, you know, this expresses an
idea in a way that is usefuland helpful and perhaps funny or
witty. For me, the value of itis that I can put ideas into a book
or a newsletter and someonewill read that and they will be encouraged.
(20:16):
And so number one is beingable to do the work that I love and
I find meaningful. The bonusfor me is that because my books are
now in 48 languages and I'vebeen writing books for now 35 years,
I'm fortunate that I getemails and messages from readers
(20:42):
almost every day. And sopeople will say, you know, like,
I had a woman contact me fromSingapore and she said, I was broke
and I was living with myparents and I was sick and I went
to the doctor and your bookBeing Happy was on the coffee table
(21:04):
of the waiting room. And I gotto read seven pages before the doctor
called me in and I said, I'vegot to read that book. And she said,
I borrowed the money because Iwas $100,000 in debt. And suddenly
I had a different attitude andI started cooking for my neighbors
(21:27):
and charging them and then Istarted cooking for other people.
And she said, now I own arestaurant and I own a bakery and
I have a multi million dollarbusiness. And next time I was in
Singapore, I went and ate inher Noosh noodle bar on the Singapore
(21:49):
Esplanade. Just, just the mostwonderful food. So little stories
like that make me want to getup every day and say, just one idea
can change your life, canchange our direction. It doesn't
mean, of course, that I wrotesomething. It doesn't mean that I
(22:10):
changed their life, but itmeant that something that I was maybe
able to phrase in a differentway, package. I guess what I do is
package ideas with simplemessages and cartoons. Someone will
write to me and say, yeah,thank you.
(22:31):
That is awesome. You must havebeen reading my mind because my next
question was going to be, howdo you approach connecting with your
audience? But the story of thelady In Singapore. That's a book
all in of itself right there.I mean, gosh, are you maybe collecting
some of these stories andperhaps that's, you know, book number
(22:53):
1413.
A number of these stories arein my latest book, Bouncing Back.
For example, there was a guyfrom Mexico that called me with a
help of a translator,anticipating that my Spanish would
not be so good. And he wantedto tell me that he read being happy.
(23:13):
He was so inspired to set somegoals that would make a difference
to his life, that he rode abicycle around the world. And it
took him two years to preparefor it and two years to ride around
the world. And I think he wentthrough 22 sets of bicycle tires
(23:34):
and something like six bicycleseats and I don't know what else.
And he met Bill Clinton andMichael Jordan and Paulo Coelo and
the Pope. And you know, justwho, who would imagine.
I'm waiting for the joke onthat. All four of those people walk
into a bar.
Yeah. So who would imaginethat someone reads a book and then
(23:59):
goes and does that? So. Andthen often it's just other stories.
A woman wrote to me from myown state of Queensland in Australia
and said, my husband, whonever reads, picked up your book
from our coffee table andstarted quoting you. And he's been
happier ever since. Thank you.You know, it's little things like
that.
(24:20):
That is awesome. And you know,that makes, that just encourages
me to finish up my novels andfinish up my work and get it out
there and learn how to draw.Speaking about learning how to draw,
I have said it many times onthe show here. I paint like a four
year old on crack. That's kindof my, you know, that's my shtick.
But I'm happy that I paintlike a four year old on crack. How
(24:45):
do people go out there andlearn how to draw? A, how to draw
and then B, how to draw better.
Yeah. Okay. I preface this bythe question is always, do you draw
what you see? And it comesdown to what our listeners want to
do. And so there was anincident that happened with my art
(25:09):
teacher at the Art StudentsLeague where a woman, we were drawing
life drawing and there was anattractive nude model. And a woman
had faithfully drawn the veryattractive nude model. And there
was a, a big black smudge markright across her like naval belly
(25:30):
button stomach. And he, theteacher was a little confused because
it didn't seem to be on themodel. And then he looked up and
there was a cat sitting on theskylight casting a shadow onto the
model.
Wow.
And you know, obviously, youknow, the, what we understand there
(25:53):
is the artist is not alwaysgoing to draw what the artist sees,
because in that instance therewas the classic example of something
that you are better offleaving out. But in, in many, many
cases, we don't draw so wellbecause we draw what we think is
(26:14):
there, we don't draw what wesee. One of the classic examples
is you get maybe a mother thatdecides she wants to do a little
portrait of her three year oldand because she knows that the nose
is the longest thing on theface, she draws this portrait of
her three year old with whatshe knows instead of what she sees.
(26:36):
And the three year old looksabout 40 because she's drawing the
long nose which, which is notin front of her, but she's drawing
what she, what she thinks. Andso if for those of our listeners
who are saying, I would liketo, you know, draw, I want to draw
realism, I want to create aportrait that looks like my husband
(26:59):
or my friend, it's alwaysgoing back to this question of am
I actually reproducing what isin front of me or am I seeming to
draw what I know? And we havecountless examples that where the
hair meets the forehead isusually a very soft line. But, but
(27:23):
artists who are just beginningwill make it a hard line. And the
hair then looks like a wig orthere is, there's no real line with
where the lips meet the flesh.But if we draw what we know, we put
a line there and then we say,why doesn't it look like Timothy?
So number one is that webecome especially vigilant. Am I
(27:45):
drawing what I know or am Idrawing what I see? And that never
stops because we're alwaysmaking assumptions which may not
be entirely correct. The otherthing that I would share is that
when it comes to light andshade, there are really three shapes
(28:05):
on which we build everything.And we need to understand how the
light moves on a sphere, howit moves from the light and into
the dark and into thereflected light. And we need to understand
how that same light moves on acylinder, how it happens on a cube.
(28:27):
And everything that you everdraw is going to be a combination
of those shapes. An arm is acylinder. The top of the head is
a sphere. The knee is in manyways a little bit like a cube. It's
quite a square looking thing.If we talk about body parts and a
(28:49):
tree is a cylinder, andwhether you're talking about Rembrandt
or Vermeer Constable, it's alltheir knowledge comes back to this
thorough understanding of howlight moves on those three shapes.
I really tuned in with thefirst thing you were saying. We draw
(29:14):
what we see. The reason why Iget into that is we had in my undergrad
years, I took a intro todrawing class because I didn't want
to draw stick figures anymore.I figured I was 20 some odd years
old. I don't want to drawstick figures anymore. I want to
learn how to draw. And we hadthis great instructor. He was a transfer
(29:38):
student from the uk. Playedreally loud techno music, really
fast techno music throughoutthe whole class. Really loud. And
his thing to us was draw whatyou see. And he would take these
chairs, put a tarp over themand he would say, draw that. And
(29:59):
he. Every 10 minutes he wouldhave a switch seats and we'd have
to, you know, go to the nextperson seat and draw where they left
off. And I thought that wasone of the greatest exercises to
do because you're constantlymoving around and you don't have
time to process and judge kindof what you're seeing. You just have
(30:23):
time to draw what you seeright there in front of you. And
is that kind of what you'retalking about? There is to suspend
that judgment of what weaccept as accepted beauty.
Yeah, that we make all kindsof assumptions. We make assumptions,
for example, that shadows arebrown or black, which they're not.
(30:43):
They tend to be inphotographs, and photographs never
do justice to the beauty ofshadows. But a shadow is usually
going to be a darker versionof what the shadow is cast on. It's
also going to be. If a shadowis on a blue shirt, then the shadow
will be a little bit warmerthan the blue because there's less
(31:06):
light to emphasize the bloom.If the shadow is on a red shirt,
then the shadow will be coolerthan the red shirt because there's
less light to emphasize withinthe shadow. So people who have been
painting a little longer andhave learned that shadows aren't
(31:26):
brown or black, suddenly theirpaintings begin to sing because they
now know that they don't paintwhat they believe it is. They paint
what they see. It is.
That you know that, oh mygosh. Now I want to go do some paintings
(31:46):
because I'm a big fan of BobRoss. I don't know if he's popular
in Australia or not, but theway he does the shadows on his mountain,
where he'll do the highlight,you know, in kind of a titanium white
and then the. The shadow ofthe mountain is kind of a blue and
(32:09):
a white. How you describethat. And I've been watching Bob
Ross, for. I would prefer notto say how many decades, but a number
of decades and how youdescribed it. Now, that all makes
sense to me. I need to go getthree copies of each and every one
of your books. That's just theend of that. That. No, but that really
(32:30):
helps me out entirely.
It is so exciting whensuddenly someone helps us to make
a breakthrough and we moveimmediately to a different level
because we understandsomething about shadows or. And it
is always the basics, Timothy.It's. It's doing the basics better.
(32:53):
I mean, if you're on thetennis court, it's about your footwork
and watching the ball. And ifyou're drawing a tree or a dog, then
it's how well do you executethe basics? And here's something
that I would share, and it isthat every one of us, whether we're
(33:15):
writing something or whetherwe're drawing a landscape, there
will be a point where we startto struggle, and we might start to
have those little thoughtscome into our mind. Well, obviously,
Rembrandt could do this,because he was Rembrandt, or Vermeer
could do this, or Hemingwaycould do this. And it's then that
(33:41):
we need to say to ourselves,this is not magic. There is a way
to draw this nose. There is away to write this first sentence
that I haven't figured outyet. And I can figure it out. And
Rembrandt had the same paperand the same light and the same brushes
(34:02):
and the same paint that Ihave. It is not magic. I will figure
it out. And we need to do thatmaybe sometimes a dozen times within
the same painting, where wejust knuckle down and we say, I can
do this. And I believe thatpeople who turn their passion into
(34:27):
their career are people whorefuse to say, well, it's because,
you know, it was Andy Warhol,he could do that. But I can't. No,
you can do it.
Is the. Because I know, forme, being an artist, that magic that
(34:47):
you speak of, I can't go to.My wife hates it. She's a theater
person, too. I can't go to alive theater show and not have notes
for everything that happens. Iused to be a lighting designer, and
I can tell when a lightingdesigner is trying to get me to look
over here instead of overthere or feel this way or feel that
(35:08):
way. So the magic of notknowing that's happening, that's
actually. That magic is gonefrom me, because I know how to do
it. Yeah, I did it myself. Butis the magic then knowing that I
can do that. Is that themagic, then, that. That you're going
(35:31):
for as an artist?
Yes. Say, for example, let'stake an example of. We come across
a painting hanging on a wall,and there is a stunning piece of
sunlight coming through theclouds and illuminating something
in the middle distance. And wethink that is just, you know, it's
(35:54):
just extraordinary. It's likeit's done with something more than
paint. And we say, you know,it's almost like magic. How did they
get that light to just sing?And the fact is, what they did was,
in the rest of the painting,there was no light, anything like
(36:15):
that little patch in themiddle distance. And not only that,
all of the values in the wholepainting were very, very close together.
So that when you have a fairlyuniform kind of painting in its tonality,
and then in that one piece inthe middle distance, you introduce
(36:38):
that burst of light comingthrough the clouds. It just blows
your mind. But what happenswhen the first time we try to paint
a painting that's going tohave that kind of impact? Then we're
getting the titanium white,we're putting it everywhere. We think,
you know, if a little bitworks, then look what I can do on
everything. And it's a littlebit like if you're shouting all the
(37:02):
time, people can't hear you.
That's true. That is true. Ilove that. I love that. What is the
ideal mindset to improve ourartwork, or improve anything at all,
for that matter? But whatmindset should we be in to get from
(37:24):
a person that can draw a stickfigure to somebody that can draw
something that's worthy ofbeing on the Sistine Chapel?
Well, if we love. First ofall, we've got to love it, because
there's going to be lots ofroadblocks and lots of days when
we think this is too hard. Soyou just have to love it. The adventure
(37:46):
of learning and putting in ourbest effort, whether it's a book
or a painting or a play or apiece of music, you've just got to
feel that I'm blessed to beable to do this whenever I can. Part
of it is, as I mentionedearlier, not bowing down to other
people that have achieved andsay, well, they did it, because that's
(38:10):
them and I'm only me andthey're famous and I'm not. That
there's a way to do this.Whatever it is I'm trying to do now,
I haven't figured it out yet,but it's not magic. I can do that.
Part of it is if we can getaround people who make their living
doing what we want to do. Ifyour goal is to be a professional
(38:32):
artist and you can spend alittle extra time around a teacher
or help them or assist them inclasses, if you can assist somebody
who's making a living at it,to set up an exhibition, if you want
to be a professional musicianand you can help another professional
(38:53):
musician, go and set up and bethere and cut their equipment. And
if you can get the belieffirstly, that everyday people make
their living at this, that isthe first step. And then from that
point you start to say, well,that can be me. And I can. I can
(39:16):
be a published author or I canstart to sell my paintings. So a
lot of it is having thatenvironment in that respect. Timothy,
I was very lucky because myfather was a professional landscape
painter for 30 years. And someof the people I knew best growing
up and as a young adult werepeople who made a living as an artist,
(39:42):
as painting in oils,watercolors, landscapes. I knew that
it was possible. So for me, Iwas not especially courageous. I
just grew up knowing thatpeople can do this. And for those
(40:03):
of us who aren't around otherpeople who are making their living
in the arts, it's importantthat we can get around people who
are actually doing it. Notpeople that are just talking about
it or people that we can see.These people are feeding their families
doing this.
(40:23):
Something I picked up fromthat. Not people that are talking
about it, but people that areactually doing it. I know my experiences.
I've. I went through academia,and there was a lot of talk through
academia, and I have thestudent loans to prove it. I was
there for so many years, andthere's a lot of people talking about
(40:44):
doing things, but not a lot ofpeople actually going out and doing
things. And it was funny to mebecause I'm a theater guy. That's
what my degree's in. Andseeing other people talking about
theater, but never going outand standing in front of a crowd
or anything like that. Andthat's something that this talk that
(41:07):
we're having here is reallyresonating with me, is we need to
surround ourselves with peoplethat are actually doing versus talking.
Yeah. And therein lies one ofthe challenges of being surrounded
with academia is that thereare people who, I mean, they can
(41:27):
make a living teaching it. Andwe may see a parallel thing with.
There's a lot of people thatteach business that have never had
one. And I tell you what, whenyou have a business and you see,
Timothy, I've never had a job.Not for one week of my life did I
ever have a paycheck and thatI'm 67 now, so I've never had a job.
(41:52):
I'm 67. And for all my lifesince I left the Art Students League
of New York, I've been eitherpainting or drawing or writing books
or giving presentations ortrying to figure out which project
next was going to feed me.And, and you learn a lot about what's
(42:12):
possible. And you also have toknuckle down and do the things that
are going to feed you and paythe rent. And when you are around
people who are doing that,then you start to understand this
is possible.
When you're out there andshowing your work and, you know,
(42:33):
either in a gallery or talkingto somebody on a podcast, you know,
that's living in Virginiaunder 3ft of snow, or somebody from
Singapore, you know, writinginto you and telling you about, hey,
because of you, I, I have arestaurant now and I'm a millionaire
now. What's the one questionthat you wish people would ask you
(42:57):
about your work? And theyrarely or never do.
You know, I don't know thatI've ever. I don't know that I've
ever had that thought. Thethrill for me is that people read
my books and enjoy my cartoonsand take a message that helps them.
(43:24):
I so enjoy the process ofwriting. And once I've written the
book, then that's like, I'vefinished the main course, so now
I can have the dessert, then Ican do the cartoons, which is like
the super fun bit of theexercise. And I just feel so blessed
to be able to share ideas thathave impacted me and tell stories
(43:48):
about people that haveinspired me. And then people come
back to me and, and say, thiswas really helpful. The one thing
that people say that sometimesirritates me is they say to me, you
are so talented. And I've beenpracticing drawing for 50 years.
(44:13):
And I think that explains whyI can go on stage and draw a cartoon
in a minute that people thinkis delightful. And even though I
write very simply, I willstill probably only write a page
or two in a day. And I willkeep on rearranging that and inserting
(44:36):
and deleting sentences until Ihave something that works. And it's
way more about effort than anyGod given talent. It's much more
about some kind of brutedetermination, I guess. But it's
not for my sake that I wishthat they wouldn't say, you're so
talented. It's for their sakebecause I want people to understand
(45:01):
that you see somebody who'smaybe singing beautifully or painting
beautifully, and it all seemsto be flowing. It may be flowing,
but there's an extraordinaryamount of effort and preparation
that went into that.
Do you think they are usingthe word talent or talented as an
(45:26):
excuse for themselves to nottry? Because, you know, they can
look at you and go, you know,well, he's so talented. He's got
12 books out. And, you know, Icould never do that. And they're
using that as an excuse versusputting in the work and writing 12
(45:47):
books.
Yes, I believe to a greater orlesser degree, many, many people
say I haven't got the talent,and so I'm not going to try. And
if we go back to that drawingexample, if you just spend an hour
examining what it is that yousee, was it Betty Edwards that wrote
(46:11):
the book how to Draw on theRight side of the Brain, where you
actually draw everythingupside down, which is the perfect
demonstration of how it isthat we draw according to our assumptions.
And most people will draw waybetter when they turn whatever it
is they're drawing upsidedown. So, yes, that's the perfect
example of. It's not so muchabout talent, but our preconceptions.
(46:37):
Awesome. Awesome. Now, you'vepresented to, you know, thousands
of corporations and, you know,it done big conventions and all that
kind of stuff. How doessomebody. How do you go about doing
that? I. I've. I've actuallyhad two guests on this show here
(46:59):
that do something similar tothat, where they'll go to a. Like
a corporate meeting orsomething like that, and they will
draw and they'll makeillustrations for what's actually
going on. But how do you get.How do you get a job? Well, not because
you don't work a regular job,but how does somebody get involved
(47:23):
in that? How would, how doyou. How did you start that?
Okay, well, that evolved whenmy books became popular. So as. As
being Happy began to gettraction, I would be initially invited
into. Where my books firststarted selling was in Singapore.
So I'd be invited into, like,Hewlett Packard or a bunch of high
(47:45):
schools to come and talk aboutsome of the main principles in your
book Being Happy. And so Ilearned early on that people really
enjoyed associating thoseideas with a cartoon. So I would
start with the little jumpingguy on the COVID of my book, and
I would draw that before, andmaybe he'd be with a dog and, you
(48:08):
know, something else, but Iwould draw that before I would even
begin speaking. And so I walkon stage I play music and I draw
a cartoon and people think,wow, this is, this is unusual. This
is great. And whether you'retalking to brain surgeons or whether
you're talking to maximumsecurity prisoners, which I also
(48:28):
speak to, there's this sigh ofrelief that says, this is going to
be fun. This is different. Andso what I will, what I will do is
as I go through my. And I'mtalking about, for example, and resilience,
taking responsibility and notblaming your mother for your happiness
and why goals are helpful. Andmaybe gratitude is great because
(48:52):
you can't be miserable. Youcan't be grateful and miserable at
the same time. Or some ofthese ideas that I'll be sharing,
I'll be drawing on this bigflip chart on stage and I usually
start at the wrong end of thedrawing. So they have no idea what
it's going to be. And it keepseveryone engaged. And it's a nice
(49:14):
way of presenting a keynote presentation.
That is awesome. I actuallyhave to do one of those keynote presentations
in March for my day job, so Imight be stealing some ideas from
you there, borrowing, as weartists like to do from each other.
(49:35):
Well, Andrew, this has been afantastic conversation that we've
had. I want to thank you sovery much for joining me here on
Create Art Podcast. Is thereany question that you wanted me to
ask that I did not pop out for you?
Not at all, Timothy. This hasbeen a delight. What I would say
is for those of our listenerswho would like to see one of my cartoons,
(49:59):
every two weeks I do anewsletter where I share a couple
of sentences about beinghappier and include a cartoon. So
if you would like to have alook at that, then you can get my
newsletter@AndrewMatthews.comthat's my website and my books are
(50:21):
all on Amazon in if you thinkI'd like to explore some of these
ideas a little further. Sobooks like Being Happy, follow your
heart bouncing back on Amazonin both Kindle and Hard Copy. And
a couple of them are also onAudible. If you enjoy books with
an Australian accent.
(50:44):
Who doesn't? If you don'tenjoy books with an Australian accent,
then don't listen to thispodcast. Well, Andrew, we will make
sure that all of those linksare in the show notes for all of
our listeners here.Definitely. Everyone go check out
all of Andrew's books and geton that newsletter for yourself.
(51:05):
And Andrew, again, thank youso very much for joining me here
today. I hope you have awonderful rest of your day.
It's been such a pleasure,Timothy. Thanks So much.
All right, well, thanks forsticking around and taking a listen
to that interview. I hope yougot a lot of great ideas and a lot
of great insights out of thisinterview. And if you want want to
(51:28):
go ahead and contact Andrew,all the links are in the show notes
there for you. Definitelycheck out his newsletter and go buy
a book or three or 12. Youknow, they make great stocking stuffers.
And if you don't know whatelse to do for somebody, go buy a
book. So, as I mentioned atthe beginning of the episode, I met
(51:51):
Andrew through PodMatch. Andin the show notes, I do have my affiliate
link with podmatch, and that'show I get such great guests on the
show. And, you know, if youwant to be a guest on multiple shows,
not only this one, but onother shows, definitely check Pod
Match Out. You're going to behooked up with some great hosts,
(52:12):
and if you're a podcaster,you're going to get some great guests.
Now, I do receive a tinylittle bit of a commission for this,
so I do need to disclose thatto you. But, you know, it's not something
that, you know, I'm gonna quitmy day job with. But, you know, I
just. I like to be open andhonest with you on that. So check
out podmatch. If you are aguest. If you're an artist, there's
(52:35):
a ton of hosts out there thatwant to have you on their show. Or
if you're a host, there's aton of guests out there that you
can get referred to, andyou're gonna get people just like
I got. So definitely check itout for yourself. The next thing
I like to talk about is makingyour podcast easier to share. And
(52:56):
I do that through anothergroup called Podcast Beacon. And
what that is is it's a littlewristband that you can have imprinted
with your logo on it, and allpeople have to do is wave their phone
over that, over thatwristband, and it'll take him, Take
that person right to yourwebsite. So instead of handing out
(53:18):
business cards or QR codes andall that stuff, definitely check
out Podcast Beacon. Links arein the show notes. Yes, I do receive
a small commission from thatif you use my affiliate link, but
I wouldn't promote it unless Ithought it was really worth your
while. So if you're apodcaster out there needing to find
a better way to share yourpodcast with folks, check out Podcast
(53:42):
Beacon. All right? And thentalking about reaching out and sharing
the podcast with folks. If yougot something onto this podcast I
definitely would love it ifyou shared it with a friend. Maybe
they are from Australia andthey like books on resilience and
being happy. Whatever it is,feel free to go ahead and share this
podcast episode with them orshare the whole podcast with them,
(54:05):
whichever is appropriate foryou. You can reach out to me directly.
Timothyartpodcast.com I'd loveto hear about what you're doing in
your neck of the woods andyour journey and I would love to
have you on the show. That waywe can share it with everybody. So
definitely reach out to me,let me know what you think and then
also let me know what youthink about the show. Is the music
(54:26):
too long? Do I have too manyguests? Not enough guests. Definitely
let me know what, what youthink about the show. And there's
another way you can do that.I'm actually running a survey. It's
called the 2024 listenersurvey. I know we're in 2025. I'll
eventually get around tochanging that. But the link is in
the show notes there for you.Just takes a few minutes. It helps
(54:48):
me make this show a five starshow without you having to, you know,
go to your app and go, oh,hey, that's five stars. Maybe your
app doesn't allow you to dothat. It helps me make the show better
for you and more what you wantto hear. Because that's what I'm
here for for sure. Andspeaking about sharing the show with
(55:08):
a friend, I have another showcalled Find a Podcast about and that's
where I help you outsmart thealgorithm and find your next binge
worthy podcast. You can findit at findapodcastabout xyz. And
for all of my projects you cancheck out my portfolio website and
that's with my productioncompany, TKB Podcast Studio. And
(55:30):
that's where I help my clientsthrough quiet professionalism, lead
through the noise. Go to thewebsite tkbpodcaststudio.com and
get all the information there.Okay? I want to thank Andrew Matthews
again for his generosity ofknowledge and spirit and enthusiasm
(55:51):
about writing and aboutresilience. And now it's time for
me to let you go off into theworld and do what you need to do.
I'm going to go ahead and dowhat I need to do here today, but
go out there, tame that innercritic. Create more than you consume
and go out there make some artfor somebody you love. Yourself.
(56:13):
I'll talk to you next time.
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