December 6, 2024 • 38 mins
In this insightful episode, hosts Ashley Vierra and Rosalynne Duff explore the concept of liberatory facilitation in professional learning and development with guests Tilifayea Griffin and Dr. Teruko Dobashi. Together, they discuss how facilitation practices rooted in equity and liberation can transform traditional professional development into spaces of empowerment and collaboration. The conversation delves into practical strategies, challenges, and successes in creating environments that prioritize inclusion, shared leadership, and meaningful engagement. Whether you're an educator, administrator, or lifelong learner, this episode offers valuable perspectives on reimagining professional growth through a liberatory lens.
Executive Producers: The CREATE Project, Rosalynne Duff, Ashley Vierra, Tilifayea Griffin and Dr. Teruko Dobashi, Dana E. Salter & Gabriela McNicoll
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Episode Transcript
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The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed are the speaker's own and do not represent
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the views, thoughts, and opinions of Georgia State University.
The material and information presented here is for general information purposes only.
The Georgia State University name and all forms and abbreviations are the property of
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product, or service.
Hi everybody, welcome back to the Create Ed podcast.
We've missed you.
We're happy to be back heading into the holidays season.
Actually, we're in it.
How are you all doing?
Perhaps you're joining us today.
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Thank you for telling your friends and families about this podcast.
And in today's episode, we're excited because we're dealing and talking about the topic
of professional development.
Which just came to your mind when you heard me say that.
What are your expectations for professional development or professional learning classes
or sessions?
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We all have an idea of what they will be.
Now what do you think about when you hear the word liberation?
And then the word facilitation.
And then thinking about professional learning.
You know, what can it look like to be able to bring and be yourself while attending,
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facilitating and participating in professional development?
Have you ever thought of professional learning in those ways?
Let's drop in on four incredible Create Project connected facilitators.
Let's explore these and more through the Create Project professional learning experiences.
Hi, my name is Ashley Vieira and I am the coordinator of University District Teacher
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Leadership at the Create Project.
And I'm Rosalind Duff.
I'm the professional learning coordinator at the Create Project.
In today's episode, we are going to speak about liberatory facilitation.
Typically when we think about facilitating, we are often talking about leading groups
of people around the topic.
But facilitation also encompasses any conversation held with others, even if it's just one
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other person.
We design and make space for transformational experiences that allow facilitators and participants
to be authentic and speak their truth.
We build a container that empowers communities, is healing centered and encompasses the belief
that everyone has the answer within themselves.
Just as Ashley described, the container, we're going to travel back in time in a
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sarcophic experience to grab knowledge of liberatory facilitation as Ashley and I co-facilitate
with two superstar facilitators.
We hope you will join us on this journey toward our collective liberation.
Welcome to this episode of Create Online.
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Oh, what?
I mean, this is called Create it.
I just want to make y'all laugh.
So yes, welcome to this episode of a liberatory experience and insight into the leadership
lives of four amazing, brilliant educators who are coming together to just tell you a
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little bit about what it means to be a rock star.
And so I'm here hanging out with the most amazing people that I know.
But first I'll introduce who I am.
I'm Rosalyn and I'm a native Kentuckian.
I find home in Bell Hook's books, a good sermon, jazz and soul music.
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I love living in Atlanta and making a life happen as a creative artist.
I'm also a teacher educator and community healer.
I have a mean sweet tooth.
I'm a country girl at heart and I'm always ready to fight or find a corner to rest, remember
and find reconciliation.
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Hey, everyone who's listening.
My name is Ashley.
I am a warrior for social justice.
I am an educator.
I've been an administrator, a facilitator, a curriculum designer.
And I think in my various roles, I've come to understand a lot about the educational
landscape of the United States, specifically urban education.
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I strive to be a transformational leader.
I strive to view education through the lens of criticality, equity and liberation both
in the classroom and beyond.
I'm really excited to be here today with these wonderful ladies as we talk about what
liberatory facilitation means to us.
That was so good.
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I am happy to be here in this conversation.
I am Celeste, Gray, Griffin.
I'm so many things, y'all.
First and foremost, I'm the future PhD.
If I could ever get myself together and get this thing written.
But I consider myself a scholar, activist.
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I am an educator.
I am an equity leader.
I'm committed to advancing educational equity, policy, advocacy and culturally responsive
leadership.
Currently, right now, my work focuses on curriculum violence and the impact of systemic inequities
in education.
And the importance of having an inclusive curriculum.
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I've led racial conversations, professional learning communities and built coalitions
to drive really meaningful change in schools and all types of organizations.
I consider myself a skilled storyteller and facilitator.
And I try to empower communities and leaders to create sustainable and equity driven frameworks.
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Right now, I'm trying to continue my impact through engaging in policy work, growing myself
as a consultant and transforming education systems to serve all of our babies authentically
and equitably.
All right, y'all.
And I'm Dr. Trico Dobashi.
I'm the proud principal of M Magnus Jones.
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I'm a passionate educator driven by the transformative words of Tupac Shakur, which states, I may
not change the world, but I promise you I'll spark the brain that will.
I seek to ignite change by sparking critical thinking and innovation in my students and
in my staff.
I'm a former foster youth, reigning from San Francisco.
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And my journey has taken me from nonprofit space, community organizing to East Atlanta
schools to now a Southwest Atlanta school by way of Oakland, Berkeley, Jackson, Mississippi,
New Orleans, Louisiana, and now here in the West End.
I consider myself an abolitionist educator advocating for cultural responsiveness in classrooms,
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authenticity and liberation.
I work tirelessly to dismantle systems of inequities and oppression here in schools and
in my larger community.
And I want to promote academic and personal excellence for all students and staff who
I work with.
And I had the opportunity of making it through the equity facilitation fellowship through
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CREATE, in which I learned a lot around how to be a great facilitator with the listening
heart and an open mind.
I also had an opportunity of working with CREATE through iGroup, as well as critical
friendship groups that happened in my school, and they really, really helped me to set a
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very strong foundation for the equity work that I continue to facilitate in Atlanta public
schools, where I was nominated and won the Equity Champion Award, as well as our school
being nominated for the Equity School in the District.
So honored to be here with you ladies.
Give it up for like, we're bosses, like this is amazing y'all.
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And I realize that everyone was sharing this story of their journeys.
We are the CREATE OGs, like the facilitation OGs in this space.
Because you said iGroup, and I was like, whoa, I remember those days.
And just look at how far we've taken this thing.
The impact, the ripples of impact that CREATE will go on forever.
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Yeah.
Speaking of OGs, T'Lafia, can you take those back to when you first came to the CREATE
space?
Oh, yes.
So I think y'all know I got into education non-traditional.
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Like my bachelor's degree is not in education.
It's in mass media arts, radio TV and film.
I thought I was going to be on BET.
You know, I was going to be at the red carpet awards interviewing people.
Like I was thinking about education and I got recruited into education actually.
And one of the first schools that I taught at was a CREATE school.
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And I started teaching pretty young.
So I was like early 20s, just still learning and figuring out.
And then I remember at that time, the executive director for CREATE came and promoted some
of the professional learning.
And then it was like, they were like, I was like, stipend, they're going to pay me to
go learn.
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Yeah, because all the other PDs I was doing, we had debate ago.
We weren't getting paid to be trained.
So you had my attention there as a little, you know, broke, or she a teacher.
I'm trying to get me a little stipend.
And you know, from there, my life changed literally, like being able to meet so many
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people and learn so much and ask a lot of questions because I think CREATE really opened
my eyes to a lot of issues that I already cared about.
But I think I had a hard time figuring out what I could do about it.
Like I knew that these issues were important.
And so I took teaching as the first step.
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I was like, well, I'll just teach, you know, if I can teach, then that's me contributing.
And I think CREATE provided a space for me to see myself as a leader because I didn't
really see that at first.
Like I was just going to teach and figure out what was next for me.
And I think being in those spaces allowed me to see myself emerge even as a young age.
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Like I was doing it like 23, 24 years old, leading these conversations and people respecting
what I had to say or being transformed by things that was just my lived experience and
things I didn't think people really cared about.
So yeah, that's going back in time.
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Time machine.
I remember a little baby T'Lafie just shaking the room.
And T'Lafie, you shook that room because when I felt it, when I first came into the
CREATE space, I was a little, little baby, third grade teacher.
I didn't know anything about education.
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And I saw you and you were facilitating a professional learning with CREATE.
And I was just like, wow, like I had never been in a space where people could share so
vulnerably and authentically and in a, and I keep on saying the word space because I
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want to say as a facilitator, it's so important to be mindful, not only of like how you feel
and how others feel in the space, but also like the environment that you're in.
And so like I remember we were at Indian Creek.
It's a retreat center, Georgia State owned and looking out, there's like some windows
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looking back out onto like a wooded area and just thinking to myself like, what did I give
myself into?
This feels like the civil rights.
This feels like a movement.
This feels like something bold.
And you were there and I just remember when I got into this position now as the coordinator,
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professional learning coordinator with CREATE, I would come and sit in your office when you
were working at a school when I would, you know, ask you questions about facilitation
and going to school.
So I just really appreciate getting to go in the time machine with you and appreciate
you for the work that you've done.
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Thank you, you're right Ashley, Karuko, y'all, every y'all.
Yeah, I will need to create days.
Everything that you all have both said has sparked a lot for me as well.
I first encountered CREATE when I was working in a CREATE school as well and it was about
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my 10th year in education.
But it was the first time, like you mentioned to Afia, it's the first time that I felt
heard and understood and it also, I think the most important and impactful thing for
me was it provided me a space to unlearn all of the things that you learn in a systemically,
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you know, inequitable and oppressive system.
And so it really allowed me to really think about so many things like the skin I was in,
how I was showing up, how I was interacting with people, the students I taught, just all
of these things that I had really never been given the space to your point, Roz, the space
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to unpack and really unlearn.
And so like from my first, you know, CREATE professional learning which also came with
a stipend so that was definitely drew me in as well.
I just wanted more and more and more.
I just kept on signing up even if it was the same one I had done the year before.
I kept on signing up because I knew there were going to be different folks in the room
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and we often say the participants are the content or the, you know, we've said that
before.
And I think that really rung true for me and I just kept on signing up for anything and
everything they had to offer, you know, became what CREATE called a CREATE champion which
is like somebody within a school who's like, you know, all about it.
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And then eventually transitioned into my role at CREATE which is recruiting and training
and supporting the mentor teachers who assist our residents.
So yeah, definitely life changing from the moment that I, you know, encountered CREATE
and what it was all about.
Fun, Teruga, you did mention a little bit about the work that you've done before and
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I'll just segue that into saying that I've had the honor of working with all three of
you all in the capacity of facilitation.
When I, looking back sometimes I have to like catch my breath because I cannot believe that
I'm still working at CREATE.
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It felt like a unicorn, you know what I mean?
Like this space that you can go and talk about those dilemmas, those professional dilemmas,
those things that keep you up at night and then actually have a space to talk to other
people and process and then go back into whatever your workspace looks like, the classroom
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or, you know, you might be like Turuko, you might be Lee and the whole school, you know,
and implement some of these strategies and these strategies are strategies for healing
and well-being as well as being able to articulate what is not taking place that should be taking
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place to support students and educators and families and communities.
So thinking about facilitating and taking us back, we're going to go back in the time
machine again and thinking about how we came into CREATE and it's almost like for me, I'll
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start this idea is like I was offered these magic tools in the sense like and they weren't
like magic, they're like power.
Like somebody handed me like power tools.
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You know, there's a difference between a hammer and then like a drill that you plug
in is like, one gets the job done quicker.
No, without you getting exhausted.
But the point is this, CREATE gave me the power tool that I needed, right?
And it was through facilitation.
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And so as we're reflecting, thinking about this idea, not only was it facilitation, that
was the power, but it was this idea concept of liberation.
So let's reflect and talk about that power of liberation and combining it with facilitation.
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That's the really interesting way to frame it, right?
Because I think about like, I think what really made the difference for me is how much more
meaningful the professional learning became because of the facilitation, right?
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Because I'm sure educators go to professional development all the time, sit in PD sessions
all the time and then there's something and we always hear this still to this day, we
get the same feedback from participants is that something feels different about this
space.
It's like people coming to our space, I think sometimes, especially if they haven't engaged
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with us before expecting a certain type of professional development.
And then they get to that space and then we wrapping, we're playing, got a spread of food
for us to eat together.
We going on nature.
While we're napping like things that in a typical professional development, you would
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never see.
And it's not that we're doing these things in a frivolous way.
Each of the activities that we have are intentional and are connected to our mission and like
supported under this liberatory framework.
And I think similar to when we think about educating students, like once we give them
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the power and the freedom to explore, who knows what they can create.
I feel like we would have been able to cultivate this space because we didn't have restraints.
We didn't have like feelings or like a cookie cutter version of this that we were trying
to model.
We and I would give a lot of credit to you, Ryze, especially when you came into your role
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and decided we was going to remix this thing and add a little flavor and season into it.
It has become something that's just so transformative and to be in these spaces and like see the
light bulb go out and see like the looks on people's faces as the wheels are turning
in there being free.
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I think that's what makes the difference for me.
I agree with you, T'Lafye.
I feel like there is such a difference in the opportunities and the spaces that we've
created for people to come and be their most authentic selves.
I think what I gained from Create was this sense of self-examination.
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And I think through the process of every PD and opportunity I was able to learn from through
Create, I learned more about myself and I was freed from the premises that I had about
myself as a biracial black and Japanese woman growing up in Hunter's Point Queer.
Summer Foster, I had all of these ideas about who I was supposed to be and the experiences
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that I had and not realizing that even as a black woman walking in the shoes that I'm
in that I have privilege.
And I think the space to explore myself in a non-threatening way to where I could be
honest with the people I was around and had the space to not only share who I was but
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who I was becoming and who I was and who I want to be.
And then having that as a facilitator created space for me to ask the questions, right?
I think that we did a lot of guiding with the questions that we asked that allowed people
to open up and be more responsive to themselves.
It wasn't a lot of like, what are things that need to be changed in your space or in your
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location but what is yours to take on?
What can you identify in yourself or in your space?
What's a dilemma that's keeping you up at night, right?
It was a lot of work of liberating ourselves from this belief that we couldn't fix something.
And I think that when we liberated our minds to sort of free ourselves from like, hey,
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this is the confine of what you have to work in, the parameters of what's acceptable in
your school and what you can say in front of folks, we were more willing to be vulnerable
with people who had similar experiences as us or who were in similar positions as us.
And we heard how other people were handling situations or how other people walked on their
journey and that everybody's timeline is different.
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And it's okay to be liberated from this timeline of expectations.
Oh, you're this age or you're at this job and you should have this knowledge.
Something that I learned through Create through Falami, Mama Falami, she said to me that your
job as an equity leader, as a social justice leader is to not push people away but to pull
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them into the work.
And I think that that is so liberating to me because oftentimes we're focusing on who's
not in it for the right reasons.
How do we get them out of our schools?
How do we get them out of our businesses, our communities?
And instead we can't do that.
The work is speaking to where they are.
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The work is creating space for them to be vulnerable and share their perspectives and providing
them the support and the loving nature so that they can then feel as if the work that
we're doing together can lead them to making better decisions for their students.
And I just feel like having those opportunities to really explore myself and to leverage my
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vision of who I am to help others was just really, really friend.
And I really enjoyed it.
And I've been in other equity commitments, equity journeys.
I've done other workshops and nothing feels the same.
Nothing feels the same.
Nothing creates the warmth or the acceptance or the action that I felt like happened in
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Create.
I think it was very action-oriented because whether you came and fired up about it or
you left fired up about it, there were people who were ready to be on the battle lines for
the work that we stood for.
And you just don't get that everywhere.
It wasn't a one-stop-shop.
It was a, we're having a community meeting.
We're having this coffee.
We're having this talk.
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We're having this come and share your issues.
We're having an affinity group.
There is always something for us to be a part of.
And so people who weren't even trying to facilitate found themselves facilitating things because
of their experiences.
Because like you said, Ashley, the content are in the people, right?
And so people come in with their different experiences and they truly, truly, truly shift
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how that facilitation works, how that whole PD works.
And I think it's important that we aren't bound by a specific timeframe or curriculum.
We allowed ourselves to really drive the work based on our experiences and what we were
going through.
Yeah, I think one thing that's really interesting is, and for our listeners to know too, is
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that all four of us were originally participants, right?
We were participants in the professional learning.
And so we know what it feels like to be a participant.
And then we kind of moved slowly over to becoming facilitators and whether that was our dream
or not is what happened.
You know, I really, for one, appreciated the kind of apprenticeship model that I was able
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to go through with Create where I could lean on some like serious facilitation gurus who
taught us well, right?
Who taught us so many things like how to facilitate across difference, how to be transparent.
I think that's one thing that makes our spaces so liberatory is the transparent facilitation.
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We often say that to participants.
We're like, Hey, this isn't what we were going to do, but we're being responsive to you all.
We're seeing a need in this space to change something or to add something or to, you know,
to rest, whatever it might be, like we're being responsive to the people that are in
our space.
And I think that really allows people to be so many things.
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Like it allows us to hold people accountable if something comes up in this space.
It allows us to be authentic.
So I think like to me, that's where such a big part of the liberation comes, the liberatory
facilitation comes into what we do.
I think another thing that I didn't realize when we were participants or at least for
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myself when I was a participant, I didn't realize how much went into designing that
space.
Girl, it was like nights up planning for the next day.
Right, take hours and hours and hours to plan for, you know, 30 minutes with folks because
you are being that intentional.
Obviously, that time kind of as you get more and more practice, it gets easier like anything.
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But I remember just sitting there and listening to people debrief and they would go through
every single feedback form and they would start, we were in there circling stuff and
seeing what trends emerge and what do we need to change for the next day?
Like it really was like down to the nitty gritty in terms of planning and being responsive.
And I think that, I mean, that's one thing that makes it so different from, you know,
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your typical professional learning spaces.
And I think that that really contributes to why people feel the way they do when they
come in to create space.
Now, I think Ashley and I'm sure Ryze can say more about this.
What you're talking about is that it was like, I didn't even realize there was an art to
facilitation, right?
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I'm thinking like, all right, they got an agenda.
They have some objectives.
We're going to go and do some activities and that's the end.
And then when you get to, we got an opportunity, a unique opportunity to like peek behind the
curtains and you're like, hold on, there's a whole method to this madness.
There, you said this because it would impact this way.
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And the off bits of YouTube being here was going to make these people feel like this.
It's like there's a whole science behind what we do and why we do it.
And I think that's like that art of facilitation that I had no clue about when I first started
this work.
And now when I'm in spaces, my brain automatically is putting the pieces together when I'm seeing
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Sir M.P.A.
It's happening in real time.
I think that is what drew me to the work because I have a creative mind and I was exposed to
programming that was very creative.
I went to youth performing art school.
So I was always trying to look behind because I'm like, nah, there's something going on
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back here.
And I'm like, the park is going to be right in the corner.
See the feet moving.
Listen, these checkers are just coming out the staff.
What's going on?
I'm like, what's happening?
I think what drew me into the space, too, was the mentorship as Ashley spoke to having
Connie and Susan and thank you to Ruko for bringing up Valami because this is another
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thing honoring those who can come and came before us.
Is a huge part of this work.
And so mentoring and listening to and receiving feedback from others, critical feedback and
knowing that it's not to tear you down, but it's out of love to build you up because we
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all have blinders and so coming into a space where somebody is going to tell you the truth
out of love to build you up.
Yeah, that's transformational.
That does not feel like any other space that most of us as adults get to be in.
And so that was the power for me was that I had somebody looking at my work and saying,
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no, I think you can do it better.
And did you consider this?
It's never a I know what's best, but have you considered this and liberated me being
a part of the great professional learning where I met all of you all and practicing.
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I think that's another part of the liberatory facilitation and what makes it so powerful
is that you get an opportunity the first time you walk into the create professional learning.
They're asking you to read something or pass out something or bring a snack and be a part
of this community.
You don't have a chance to hide, you know, so you have to practice in community with
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others and do your work publicly.
And so for those listening and especially those experienced educators who are on their
transformative journey, thinking about the importance of practicing and how that practicing
with other people can liberate us to places where we never thought that we would be because
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being mentored in a create professional learning is what helped to move me out of the classroom
and put me in the space where I could look over my shoulder and say, hold on, there's
all these other brilliant people doing this work and I want them to do it.
Even though I'm in this position, let's do it together because I can't do it on my own
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because those people came before me showed me you can't do this on your own.
So as we're coming, you know, to a close around this conversation, I want us to get creative.
Let's do what we do.
Let's do it here.
Let's rap about, you know, rapping is just talking, you know, we started singing and
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then a little poetry comes out or whatever.
But let's get free in the space and let's talk about some of those facilitation moves
or whatever come up.
You were reading my mind Rosalyn.
I promise you, I was sitting here like, oh, he's talked about the power.
I was like, let's talk about our facilitation superpower.
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Like, I'm happy to rap about it.
But I literally was sitting here like, oh, I have one in mind for me and I see different
ones for you all.
But I was like, I wonder what folks would say is their facilitation superpower.
Thanks for joining us on this journey into Libertory Facilitation.
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Stay tuned for part two, a bonus episode where we'll dive into facilitation superpowers,
what they are and how to unlock them and why they matter.
Don't miss it.
Wasn't that a great conversation?
Did you all enjoy it?
That's a part of the work, the part of facilitation, part of professional learning that we don't
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often get to peel behind the curtain and see, right?
How facilitators become.
How they learn to be.
How we can all be facilitators.
You know, when Dr. Tabashi said, Tupac's line, I may not change the world, but I promise
you, I'll spark the brain that will.
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That really summed this whole conversation up for me.
What about for you?
How are we the spark?
How are you the spark as we facilitate our own understanding of who we are, our own change,
but also the ripple effect, right?
Here's a couple of quotes from that great conversation that that's took out for me.
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When Rosalyn said, what did I get myself into?
This feels like something bold.
And she was first entering into create professional learning.
Have you had that experience with a professional learning?
Wouldn't it be nice if all of our professional learning could spark that for us?
And then she said later, you know, to have someone looking at her work and say, have
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you considered this to really come alongside of you as you dig into your own practice?
That's huge.
Ashley said the first time I, when she took this professional learning was the first time
that she felt heard and understood and it provided a space to learn and unlearn so much
of what she had been taught.
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Things that she had never been given the space to unpack and unlearn.
There are so many assumptions and things that we learn about who we are, about schooling
that we don't even see them, they become transparent, right?
How do we find a space to really examine that?
That's what this professional learning provides a space for.
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And this way, this liberatory facilitation approach, what they were talking about provides
a way to do that.
Tolafie said educators go to professional learning all the time.
That is so true.
But the feedback that we get on the creates professional learning is that something feels
different.
We see it all the time in the surveys.
(35:36):
Something feels different.
You can be free here.
Right?
She also said that each of the activities in the professional learning are not frivolous.
And I think that's something that, you know, we've all been in professional learnings,
right?
They are in support of the mission and vision of create and the work.
The amount of time, I think Ashley talked about that, that goes into the preparation.
(36:00):
We all do that as educators in our community, in our homes, in our schools.
Same thing is happening in the professional learning here.
And then to Dr. Tabashi again, she said, I gained from create professional learning this
sense of self-examination.
Every time I take it, I learn more about myself.
If you liked this conversation and this liberatory facilitation approach to professional learning,
(36:26):
all of this is part of the create projects, community engagement, continue education,
professional learning opportunities.
You want to attend?
I know you do.
Your interest has been piqued.
You want to sign up?
Come on.
The next session is going to start in January.
So go on our website now, sign up.
(36:47):
It's the Healing Center Justice course and the create 101 course, which introduces everyone
to the, to the approaches to the work here at create and more.
It all starts in January, 2025.
So register now.
Registration is open.
That's a wrap for this podcast, for this episode.
(37:08):
We want to give a special thanks to our guests, Ashley Vera, Rosalind Duff, T'Lathea Griffin,
and Turuko Tabashi.
We hope this discussion of liberatory facilitation has provided valuable insights into the power
of community partnerships and the transformative potential within K through 12 education and
(37:32):
K-Chin Residencies.
If you enjoyed today's episode, please subscribe, rate, leave us a review on the way that you
get this podcast, Apple Spotify, however you get this podcast.
Your feedback helps us.
Thank you for the feedback we've gotten and please continue.
It helps us to bring you more meaningful content and to connect with you.
(37:55):
I talked a second ago about registering for professional learning.
Stay connected with us, register, find out more about upcoming events on our website.
gsu.edu.
You can also check there for updates and so much more.
Thank you all for listening.
(38:16):
We appreciate you and until next time, let's continue to build strong partnerships, foster
thriving educational communities, and transform teacher residencies into places of deep joy.
And that's for part two, like Ashley and Rosalind were saying of this amazing conversation.
How's it so?
The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed are the speaker's own and do not represent
(00:08):
the views, thoughts, and opinions of Georgia State University.
The material and information presented here is for general information purposes only.
The Georgia State University name and all forms and abbreviations are the property of
its owner and its use does not imply endorsement of or opposition to any specific organization,
(00:34):
product, or service.
Hi everybody, welcome back to the Create Ed podcast.
We've missed you.
We're happy to be back heading into the holidays season.
Actually, we're in it.
How are you all doing?
Perhaps you're joining us today.
(00:55):
Thank you for telling your friends and families about this podcast.
And in today's episode, we're excited because we're dealing and talking about the topic
of professional development.
Which just came to your mind when you heard me say that.
What are your expectations for professional development or professional learning classes
or sessions?
(01:17):
We all have an idea of what they will be.
Now what do you think about when you hear the word liberation?
And then the word facilitation.
And then thinking about professional learning.
You know, what can it look like to be able to bring and be yourself while attending,
(01:38):
facilitating and participating in professional development?
Have you ever thought of professional learning in those ways?
Let's drop in on four incredible Create Project connected facilitators.
Let's explore these and more through the Create Project professional learning experiences.
Hi, my name is Ashley Vieira and I am the coordinator of University District Teacher
(02:01):
Leadership at the Create Project.
And I'm Rosalind Duff.
I'm the professional learning coordinator at the Create Project.
In today's episode, we are going to speak about liberatory facilitation.
Typically when we think about facilitating, we are often talking about leading groups
of people around the topic.
But facilitation also encompasses any conversation held with others, even if it's just one
(02:25):
other person.
We design and make space for transformational experiences that allow facilitators and participants
to be authentic and speak their truth.
We build a container that empowers communities, is healing centered and encompasses the belief
that everyone has the answer within themselves.
Just as Ashley described, the container, we're going to travel back in time in a
(02:49):
sarcophic experience to grab knowledge of liberatory facilitation as Ashley and I co-facilitate
with two superstar facilitators.
We hope you will join us on this journey toward our collective liberation.
Welcome to this episode of Create Online.
(03:09):
Oh, what?
I mean, this is called Create it.
I just want to make y'all laugh.
So yes, welcome to this episode of a liberatory experience and insight into the leadership
lives of four amazing, brilliant educators who are coming together to just tell you a
(03:30):
little bit about what it means to be a rock star.
And so I'm here hanging out with the most amazing people that I know.
But first I'll introduce who I am.
I'm Rosalyn and I'm a native Kentuckian.
I find home in Bell Hook's books, a good sermon, jazz and soul music.
(03:51):
I love living in Atlanta and making a life happen as a creative artist.
I'm also a teacher educator and community healer.
I have a mean sweet tooth.
I'm a country girl at heart and I'm always ready to fight or find a corner to rest, remember
and find reconciliation.
(04:11):
Hey, everyone who's listening.
My name is Ashley.
I am a warrior for social justice.
I am an educator.
I've been an administrator, a facilitator, a curriculum designer.
And I think in my various roles, I've come to understand a lot about the educational
landscape of the United States, specifically urban education.
(04:35):
I strive to be a transformational leader.
I strive to view education through the lens of criticality, equity and liberation both
in the classroom and beyond.
I'm really excited to be here today with these wonderful ladies as we talk about what
liberatory facilitation means to us.
That was so good.
(04:56):
I am happy to be here in this conversation.
I am Celeste, Gray, Griffin.
I'm so many things, y'all.
First and foremost, I'm the future PhD.
If I could ever get myself together and get this thing written.
But I consider myself a scholar, activist.
(05:16):
I am an educator.
I am an equity leader.
I'm committed to advancing educational equity, policy, advocacy and culturally responsive
leadership.
Currently, right now, my work focuses on curriculum violence and the impact of systemic inequities
in education.
And the importance of having an inclusive curriculum.
(05:41):
I've led racial conversations, professional learning communities and built coalitions
to drive really meaningful change in schools and all types of organizations.
I consider myself a skilled storyteller and facilitator.
And I try to empower communities and leaders to create sustainable and equity driven frameworks.
(06:03):
Right now, I'm trying to continue my impact through engaging in policy work, growing myself
as a consultant and transforming education systems to serve all of our babies authentically
and equitably.
All right, y'all.
And I'm Dr. Trico Dobashi.
I'm the proud principal of M Magnus Jones.
(06:24):
I'm a passionate educator driven by the transformative words of Tupac Shakur, which states, I may
not change the world, but I promise you I'll spark the brain that will.
I seek to ignite change by sparking critical thinking and innovation in my students and
in my staff.
I'm a former foster youth, reigning from San Francisco.
(06:46):
And my journey has taken me from nonprofit space, community organizing to East Atlanta
schools to now a Southwest Atlanta school by way of Oakland, Berkeley, Jackson, Mississippi,
New Orleans, Louisiana, and now here in the West End.
I consider myself an abolitionist educator advocating for cultural responsiveness in classrooms,
(07:11):
authenticity and liberation.
I work tirelessly to dismantle systems of inequities and oppression here in schools and
in my larger community.
And I want to promote academic and personal excellence for all students and staff who
I work with.
And I had the opportunity of making it through the equity facilitation fellowship through
(07:38):
CREATE, in which I learned a lot around how to be a great facilitator with the listening
heart and an open mind.
I also had an opportunity of working with CREATE through iGroup, as well as critical
friendship groups that happened in my school, and they really, really helped me to set a
(08:00):
very strong foundation for the equity work that I continue to facilitate in Atlanta public
schools, where I was nominated and won the Equity Champion Award, as well as our school
being nominated for the Equity School in the District.
So honored to be here with you ladies.
Give it up for like, we're bosses, like this is amazing y'all.
(08:23):
And I realize that everyone was sharing this story of their journeys.
We are the CREATE OGs, like the facilitation OGs in this space.
Because you said iGroup, and I was like, whoa, I remember those days.
And just look at how far we've taken this thing.
The impact, the ripples of impact that CREATE will go on forever.
(08:45):
Yeah.
Speaking of OGs, T'Lafia, can you take those back to when you first came to the CREATE
space?
Oh, yes.
So I think y'all know I got into education non-traditional.
(09:07):
Like my bachelor's degree is not in education.
It's in mass media arts, radio TV and film.
I thought I was going to be on BET.
You know, I was going to be at the red carpet awards interviewing people.
Like I was thinking about education and I got recruited into education actually.
And one of the first schools that I taught at was a CREATE school.
(09:32):
And I started teaching pretty young.
So I was like early 20s, just still learning and figuring out.
And then I remember at that time, the executive director for CREATE came and promoted some
of the professional learning.
And then it was like, they were like, I was like, stipend, they're going to pay me to
go learn.
(09:53):
Yeah, because all the other PDs I was doing, we had debate ago.
We weren't getting paid to be trained.
So you had my attention there as a little, you know, broke, or she a teacher.
I'm trying to get me a little stipend.
And you know, from there, my life changed literally, like being able to meet so many
(10:17):
people and learn so much and ask a lot of questions because I think CREATE really opened
my eyes to a lot of issues that I already cared about.
But I think I had a hard time figuring out what I could do about it.
Like I knew that these issues were important.
And so I took teaching as the first step.
(10:39):
I was like, well, I'll just teach, you know, if I can teach, then that's me contributing.
And I think CREATE provided a space for me to see myself as a leader because I didn't
really see that at first.
Like I was just going to teach and figure out what was next for me.
And I think being in those spaces allowed me to see myself emerge even as a young age.
(11:03):
Like I was doing it like 23, 24 years old, leading these conversations and people respecting
what I had to say or being transformed by things that was just my lived experience and
things I didn't think people really cared about.
So yeah, that's going back in time.
(11:24):
Time machine.
I remember a little baby T'Lafie just shaking the room.
And T'Lafie, you shook that room because when I felt it, when I first came into the
CREATE space, I was a little, little baby, third grade teacher.
I didn't know anything about education.
(11:45):
And I saw you and you were facilitating a professional learning with CREATE.
And I was just like, wow, like I had never been in a space where people could share so
vulnerably and authentically and in a, and I keep on saying the word space because I
(12:09):
want to say as a facilitator, it's so important to be mindful, not only of like how you feel
and how others feel in the space, but also like the environment that you're in.
And so like I remember we were at Indian Creek.
It's a retreat center, Georgia State owned and looking out, there's like some windows
(12:34):
looking back out onto like a wooded area and just thinking to myself like, what did I give
myself into?
This feels like the civil rights.
This feels like a movement.
This feels like something bold.
And you were there and I just remember when I got into this position now as the coordinator,
(12:58):
professional learning coordinator with CREATE, I would come and sit in your office when you
were working at a school when I would, you know, ask you questions about facilitation
and going to school.
So I just really appreciate getting to go in the time machine with you and appreciate
you for the work that you've done.
(13:19):
Thank you, you're right Ashley, Karuko, y'all, every y'all.
Yeah, I will need to create days.
Everything that you all have both said has sparked a lot for me as well.
I first encountered CREATE when I was working in a CREATE school as well and it was about
(13:39):
my 10th year in education.
But it was the first time, like you mentioned to Afia, it's the first time that I felt
heard and understood and it also, I think the most important and impactful thing for
me was it provided me a space to unlearn all of the things that you learn in a systemically,
(14:02):
you know, inequitable and oppressive system.
And so it really allowed me to really think about so many things like the skin I was in,
how I was showing up, how I was interacting with people, the students I taught, just all
of these things that I had really never been given the space to your point, Roz, the space
(14:24):
to unpack and really unlearn.
And so like from my first, you know, CREATE professional learning which also came with
a stipend so that was definitely drew me in as well.
I just wanted more and more and more.
I just kept on signing up even if it was the same one I had done the year before.
I kept on signing up because I knew there were going to be different folks in the room
(14:47):
and we often say the participants are the content or the, you know, we've said that
before.
And I think that really rung true for me and I just kept on signing up for anything and
everything they had to offer, you know, became what CREATE called a CREATE champion which
is like somebody within a school who's like, you know, all about it.
(15:08):
And then eventually transitioned into my role at CREATE which is recruiting and training
and supporting the mentor teachers who assist our residents.
So yeah, definitely life changing from the moment that I, you know, encountered CREATE
and what it was all about.
Fun, Teruga, you did mention a little bit about the work that you've done before and
(15:32):
I'll just segue that into saying that I've had the honor of working with all three of
you all in the capacity of facilitation.
When I, looking back sometimes I have to like catch my breath because I cannot believe that
I'm still working at CREATE.
(15:56):
It felt like a unicorn, you know what I mean?
Like this space that you can go and talk about those dilemmas, those professional dilemmas,
those things that keep you up at night and then actually have a space to talk to other
people and process and then go back into whatever your workspace looks like, the classroom
(16:20):
or, you know, you might be like Turuko, you might be Lee and the whole school, you know,
and implement some of these strategies and these strategies are strategies for healing
and well-being as well as being able to articulate what is not taking place that should be taking
(16:44):
place to support students and educators and families and communities.
So thinking about facilitating and taking us back, we're going to go back in the time
machine again and thinking about how we came into CREATE and it's almost like for me, I'll
(17:04):
start this idea is like I was offered these magic tools in the sense like and they weren't
like magic, they're like power.
Like somebody handed me like power tools.
(17:26):
You know, there's a difference between a hammer and then like a drill that you plug
in is like, one gets the job done quicker.
No, without you getting exhausted.
But the point is this, CREATE gave me the power tool that I needed, right?
And it was through facilitation.
(17:47):
And so as we're reflecting, thinking about this idea, not only was it facilitation, that
was the power, but it was this idea concept of liberation.
So let's reflect and talk about that power of liberation and combining it with facilitation.
(18:11):
That's the really interesting way to frame it, right?
Because I think about like, I think what really made the difference for me is how much more
meaningful the professional learning became because of the facilitation, right?
(18:33):
Because I'm sure educators go to professional development all the time, sit in PD sessions
all the time and then there's something and we always hear this still to this day, we
get the same feedback from participants is that something feels different about this
space.
It's like people coming to our space, I think sometimes, especially if they haven't engaged
(18:57):
with us before expecting a certain type of professional development.
And then they get to that space and then we wrapping, we're playing, got a spread of food
for us to eat together.
We going on nature.
While we're napping like things that in a typical professional development, you would
(19:20):
never see.
And it's not that we're doing these things in a frivolous way.
Each of the activities that we have are intentional and are connected to our mission and like
supported under this liberatory framework.
And I think similar to when we think about educating students, like once we give them
(19:41):
the power and the freedom to explore, who knows what they can create.
I feel like we would have been able to cultivate this space because we didn't have restraints.
We didn't have like feelings or like a cookie cutter version of this that we were trying
to model.
We and I would give a lot of credit to you, Ryze, especially when you came into your role
(20:05):
and decided we was going to remix this thing and add a little flavor and season into it.
It has become something that's just so transformative and to be in these spaces and like see the
light bulb go out and see like the looks on people's faces as the wheels are turning
in there being free.
(20:27):
I think that's what makes the difference for me.
I agree with you, T'Lafye.
I feel like there is such a difference in the opportunities and the spaces that we've
created for people to come and be their most authentic selves.
I think what I gained from Create was this sense of self-examination.
(20:48):
And I think through the process of every PD and opportunity I was able to learn from through
Create, I learned more about myself and I was freed from the premises that I had about
myself as a biracial black and Japanese woman growing up in Hunter's Point Queer.
Summer Foster, I had all of these ideas about who I was supposed to be and the experiences
(21:12):
that I had and not realizing that even as a black woman walking in the shoes that I'm
in that I have privilege.
And I think the space to explore myself in a non-threatening way to where I could be
honest with the people I was around and had the space to not only share who I was but
(21:35):
who I was becoming and who I was and who I want to be.
And then having that as a facilitator created space for me to ask the questions, right?
I think that we did a lot of guiding with the questions that we asked that allowed people
to open up and be more responsive to themselves.
It wasn't a lot of like, what are things that need to be changed in your space or in your
(22:00):
location but what is yours to take on?
What can you identify in yourself or in your space?
What's a dilemma that's keeping you up at night, right?
It was a lot of work of liberating ourselves from this belief that we couldn't fix something.
And I think that when we liberated our minds to sort of free ourselves from like, hey,
(22:24):
this is the confine of what you have to work in, the parameters of what's acceptable in
your school and what you can say in front of folks, we were more willing to be vulnerable
with people who had similar experiences as us or who were in similar positions as us.
And we heard how other people were handling situations or how other people walked on their
journey and that everybody's timeline is different.
(22:47):
And it's okay to be liberated from this timeline of expectations.
Oh, you're this age or you're at this job and you should have this knowledge.
Something that I learned through Create through Falami, Mama Falami, she said to me that your
job as an equity leader, as a social justice leader is to not push people away but to pull
(23:11):
them into the work.
And I think that that is so liberating to me because oftentimes we're focusing on who's
not in it for the right reasons.
How do we get them out of our schools?
How do we get them out of our businesses, our communities?
And instead we can't do that.
The work is speaking to where they are.
(23:32):
The work is creating space for them to be vulnerable and share their perspectives and providing
them the support and the loving nature so that they can then feel as if the work that
we're doing together can lead them to making better decisions for their students.
And I just feel like having those opportunities to really explore myself and to leverage my
(23:54):
vision of who I am to help others was just really, really friend.
And I really enjoyed it.
And I've been in other equity commitments, equity journeys.
I've done other workshops and nothing feels the same.
Nothing feels the same.
Nothing creates the warmth or the acceptance or the action that I felt like happened in
(24:18):
Create.
I think it was very action-oriented because whether you came and fired up about it or
you left fired up about it, there were people who were ready to be on the battle lines for
the work that we stood for.
And you just don't get that everywhere.
It wasn't a one-stop-shop.
It was a, we're having a community meeting.
We're having this coffee.
We're having this talk.
(24:39):
We're having this come and share your issues.
We're having an affinity group.
There is always something for us to be a part of.
And so people who weren't even trying to facilitate found themselves facilitating things because
of their experiences.
Because like you said, Ashley, the content are in the people, right?
And so people come in with their different experiences and they truly, truly, truly shift
(25:04):
how that facilitation works, how that whole PD works.
And I think it's important that we aren't bound by a specific timeframe or curriculum.
We allowed ourselves to really drive the work based on our experiences and what we were
going through.
Yeah, I think one thing that's really interesting is, and for our listeners to know too, is
(25:29):
that all four of us were originally participants, right?
We were participants in the professional learning.
And so we know what it feels like to be a participant.
And then we kind of moved slowly over to becoming facilitators and whether that was our dream
or not is what happened.
You know, I really, for one, appreciated the kind of apprenticeship model that I was able
(25:53):
to go through with Create where I could lean on some like serious facilitation gurus who
taught us well, right?
Who taught us so many things like how to facilitate across difference, how to be transparent.
I think that's one thing that makes our spaces so liberatory is the transparent facilitation.
(26:15):
We often say that to participants.
We're like, Hey, this isn't what we were going to do, but we're being responsive to you all.
We're seeing a need in this space to change something or to add something or to, you know,
to rest, whatever it might be, like we're being responsive to the people that are in
our space.
And I think that really allows people to be so many things.
(26:37):
Like it allows us to hold people accountable if something comes up in this space.
It allows us to be authentic.
So I think like to me, that's where such a big part of the liberation comes, the liberatory
facilitation comes into what we do.
I think another thing that I didn't realize when we were participants or at least for
(26:58):
myself when I was a participant, I didn't realize how much went into designing that
space.
Girl, it was like nights up planning for the next day.
Right, take hours and hours and hours to plan for, you know, 30 minutes with folks because
you are being that intentional.
Obviously, that time kind of as you get more and more practice, it gets easier like anything.
(27:21):
But I remember just sitting there and listening to people debrief and they would go through
every single feedback form and they would start, we were in there circling stuff and
seeing what trends emerge and what do we need to change for the next day?
Like it really was like down to the nitty gritty in terms of planning and being responsive.
And I think that, I mean, that's one thing that makes it so different from, you know,
(27:46):
your typical professional learning spaces.
And I think that that really contributes to why people feel the way they do when they
come in to create space.
Now, I think Ashley and I'm sure Ryze can say more about this.
What you're talking about is that it was like, I didn't even realize there was an art to
facilitation, right?
(28:06):
I'm thinking like, all right, they got an agenda.
They have some objectives.
We're going to go and do some activities and that's the end.
And then when you get to, we got an opportunity, a unique opportunity to like peek behind the
curtains and you're like, hold on, there's a whole method to this madness.
There, you said this because it would impact this way.
(28:29):
And the off bits of YouTube being here was going to make these people feel like this.
It's like there's a whole science behind what we do and why we do it.
And I think that's like that art of facilitation that I had no clue about when I first started
this work.
And now when I'm in spaces, my brain automatically is putting the pieces together when I'm seeing
(28:54):
Sir M.P.A.
It's happening in real time.
I think that is what drew me to the work because I have a creative mind and I was exposed to
programming that was very creative.
I went to youth performing art school.
So I was always trying to look behind because I'm like, nah, there's something going on
(29:16):
back here.
And I'm like, the park is going to be right in the corner.
See the feet moving.
Listen, these checkers are just coming out the staff.
What's going on?
I'm like, what's happening?
I think what drew me into the space, too, was the mentorship as Ashley spoke to having
Connie and Susan and thank you to Ruko for bringing up Valami because this is another
(29:37):
thing honoring those who can come and came before us.
Is a huge part of this work.
And so mentoring and listening to and receiving feedback from others, critical feedback and
knowing that it's not to tear you down, but it's out of love to build you up because we
(30:00):
all have blinders and so coming into a space where somebody is going to tell you the truth
out of love to build you up.
Yeah, that's transformational.
That does not feel like any other space that most of us as adults get to be in.
And so that was the power for me was that I had somebody looking at my work and saying,
(30:25):
no, I think you can do it better.
And did you consider this?
It's never a I know what's best, but have you considered this and liberated me being
a part of the great professional learning where I met all of you all and practicing.
(30:45):
I think that's another part of the liberatory facilitation and what makes it so powerful
is that you get an opportunity the first time you walk into the create professional learning.
They're asking you to read something or pass out something or bring a snack and be a part
of this community.
You don't have a chance to hide, you know, so you have to practice in community with
(31:08):
others and do your work publicly.
And so for those listening and especially those experienced educators who are on their
transformative journey, thinking about the importance of practicing and how that practicing
with other people can liberate us to places where we never thought that we would be because
(31:31):
being mentored in a create professional learning is what helped to move me out of the classroom
and put me in the space where I could look over my shoulder and say, hold on, there's
all these other brilliant people doing this work and I want them to do it.
Even though I'm in this position, let's do it together because I can't do it on my own
(31:52):
because those people came before me showed me you can't do this on your own.
So as we're coming, you know, to a close around this conversation, I want us to get creative.
Let's do what we do.
Let's do it here.
Let's rap about, you know, rapping is just talking, you know, we started singing and
(32:13):
then a little poetry comes out or whatever.
But let's get free in the space and let's talk about some of those facilitation moves
or whatever come up.
You were reading my mind Rosalyn.
I promise you, I was sitting here like, oh, he's talked about the power.
I was like, let's talk about our facilitation superpower.
(32:33):
Like, I'm happy to rap about it.
But I literally was sitting here like, oh, I have one in mind for me and I see different
ones for you all.
But I was like, I wonder what folks would say is their facilitation superpower.
Thanks for joining us on this journey into Libertory Facilitation.
(32:53):
Stay tuned for part two, a bonus episode where we'll dive into facilitation superpowers,
what they are and how to unlock them and why they matter.
Don't miss it.
Wasn't that a great conversation?
Did you all enjoy it?
That's a part of the work, the part of facilitation, part of professional learning that we don't
(33:17):
often get to peel behind the curtain and see, right?
How facilitators become.
How they learn to be.
How we can all be facilitators.
You know, when Dr. Tabashi said, Tupac's line, I may not change the world, but I promise
you, I'll spark the brain that will.
(33:40):
That really summed this whole conversation up for me.
What about for you?
How are we the spark?
How are you the spark as we facilitate our own understanding of who we are, our own change,
but also the ripple effect, right?
Here's a couple of quotes from that great conversation that that's took out for me.
(34:05):
When Rosalyn said, what did I get myself into?
This feels like something bold.
And she was first entering into create professional learning.
Have you had that experience with a professional learning?
Wouldn't it be nice if all of our professional learning could spark that for us?
And then she said later, you know, to have someone looking at her work and say, have
(34:28):
you considered this to really come alongside of you as you dig into your own practice?
That's huge.
Ashley said the first time I, when she took this professional learning was the first time
that she felt heard and understood and it provided a space to learn and unlearn so much
of what she had been taught.
(34:51):
Things that she had never been given the space to unpack and unlearn.
There are so many assumptions and things that we learn about who we are, about schooling
that we don't even see them, they become transparent, right?
How do we find a space to really examine that?
That's what this professional learning provides a space for.
(35:14):
And this way, this liberatory facilitation approach, what they were talking about provides
a way to do that.
Tolafie said educators go to professional learning all the time.
That is so true.
But the feedback that we get on the creates professional learning is that something feels
different.
We see it all the time in the surveys.
(35:36):
Something feels different.
You can be free here.
Right?
She also said that each of the activities in the professional learning are not frivolous.
And I think that's something that, you know, we've all been in professional learnings,
right?
They are in support of the mission and vision of create and the work.
The amount of time, I think Ashley talked about that, that goes into the preparation.
(36:00):
We all do that as educators in our community, in our homes, in our schools.
Same thing is happening in the professional learning here.
And then to Dr. Tabashi again, she said, I gained from create professional learning this
sense of self-examination.
Every time I take it, I learn more about myself.
If you liked this conversation and this liberatory facilitation approach to professional learning,
(36:26):
all of this is part of the create projects, community engagement, continue education,
professional learning opportunities.
You want to attend?
I know you do.
Your interest has been piqued.
You want to sign up?
Come on.
The next session is going to start in January.
So go on our website now, sign up.
(36:47):
It's the Healing Center Justice course and the create 101 course, which introduces everyone
to the, to the approaches to the work here at create and more.
It all starts in January, 2025.
So register now.
Registration is open.
That's a wrap for this podcast, for this episode.
(37:08):
We want to give a special thanks to our guests, Ashley Vera, Rosalind Duff, T'Lathea Griffin,
and Turuko Tabashi.
We hope this discussion of liberatory facilitation has provided valuable insights into the power
of community partnerships and the transformative potential within K through 12 education and
(37:32):
K-Chin Residencies.
If you enjoyed today's episode, please subscribe, rate, leave us a review on the way that you
get this podcast, Apple Spotify, however you get this podcast.
Your feedback helps us.
Thank you for the feedback we've gotten and please continue.
It helps us to bring you more meaningful content and to connect with you.
(37:55):
I talked a second ago about registering for professional learning.
Stay connected with us, register, find out more about upcoming events on our website.
gsu.edu.
You can also check there for updates and so much more.
Thank you all for listening.
(38:16):
We appreciate you and until next time, let's continue to build strong partnerships, foster
thriving educational communities, and transform teacher residencies into places of deep joy.
And that's for part two, like Ashley and Rosalind were saying of this amazing conversation.
How's it so?
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