October 17, 2024 • 23 mins
In this episode, Dana Salter and Gabriela McNicoll discuss the transformative power of media making in K-12 education as a tool for liberation. They explore how media creation can empower students and their families, challenge narratives, and build critical thinking skills, particularly in areas where curricula may limit discussions around history and identity,
Salter and McNicoll highlight the importance of media and self-expression as educational tools. They discuss examples of how storytelling and media projects help people contextualize complex issues like systemic inequity and community activism, making connections between personal experience and larger social movements in the South. This kind of work is vital in nurturing a new generation that is prepared to lead and make positive changes in their communities.
Let's get started!
Executive Producers: The CREATE Project, Dana Salter and Gabriela McNicoll
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed are the speaker's own and do not represent
(00:08):
the views, thoughts, and opinions of Georgia State University.
The material and information presented here is for general information purposes only.
The Georgia State University name and all forms and abbreviations are the property of
its owner and its use does not imply endorsement of or opposition to any specific organization,
(00:34):
product, or service.
Hi everybody, welcome to a bonus episode of the Create Ed podcast.
Today we're going to do things a little bit differently, but as always, before we get started,
can we take a moment and just take a breath and then go ahead and let that out and take
(01:01):
one more breath and go ahead and let that out.
All right, there's a lot going on.
It's fall and what I'm excited about right now is Gaby McNichol is with me today.
Hey Gaby.
Hello.
I'm so glad to be here with you.
(01:23):
Really excited to talk to you in this special bonus episode that we have.
Fall break is next week for Atlanta Public Schools and a lot of Metro Atlanta.
Woo hoo.
And yes, into Cab County schools, some of them as well.
So we are going to be having a shorter bonus episode to respect everybody's break, to
respect everybody's time.
(01:44):
Thank you.
I know folks are going out of town, in town, staycation, vacation, so all that good stuff.
That's right, all the occasions.
So I'm super excited to be here with Dana, Dana Salter, and to talk about create media
assets and media production in this current climate.
Yeah, you know, and Gaby, just for our audience, you listeners, our friends joining us here,
(02:10):
we are the executive producers of this podcast for the Create Project.
And so we, you know, Gaby, Gaby, what do you do?
I'm not going to talk for you.
I'm not going to teach you.
You can always talk for me.
So I do media production, media and microcredentialing for the Create Project.
(02:31):
So all of what we're doing is sort of creating media assets like podcasts.
So this is very meta to be talking about the podcast on the podcast.
We are doing Create Ed Online, which is a series of interviews with Atlanta historians,
Atlanta teachers, Atlanta activists, talking about their work so that we can create video
(02:53):
media for teachers and for students and for caregivers and all of the wonderful community
around Atlanta Public Schools and Metro Atlanta Schools, really.
Yeah, and that, yeah.
And you got me thinking also, we got the Create Ed, Create Online, where we'll house all of
those things, but we also have some other things kind of simmering too.
(03:15):
And that kind of fits under the umbrella of this work as a part of the Create Project,
the Teacher Residency Project.
So there's folks who've talked about some graphic novel work, some short form video
essay content, lots of different ways people can envision interacting with our work and
how it connects to education here in Atlanta, rooted in the South.
(03:39):
And I think that's a really important foundation to our work, you know, that it is, this is
by design, we are being intentional, and this work is federally funded, as well as locally
philanthropically funded.
So we had to write a grant in order to be able to do this work.
(04:00):
And so that in itself is a lot, right, because there's things you have to think about what
the grants are asking for, what our philanthropic friends and partners are looking for, as well
as the context and climate in which we are doing this work.
And so this particular grant that we are a part of that funded us to do the work, we
(04:21):
started writing it in the spring of 2022, and it was funded in the fall of 2022.
And that was an interesting time.
Gabby, you want to take it away?
Yeah, I thank you for that context.
I think what's really important is we are in the South.
And so we've seen this incredible push in our legislatures in the South in particular
(04:47):
to have new laws that prohibit the discussions of things called device of concept.
So in Georgia, we're sort of teachers, students, caregivers, the folks around the support structures
around education are sort of trying to navigate we in 2022 Georgia legislature past divisive
(05:08):
concepts.
And that's going to be 1084.
And so let me actually read you the text of the device of concepts just so that we have
a better indication.
The law directly addresses issues related to race, but does not explicitly mention curriculum
related to gender identity or sexuality.
So it's super vague the text of the device of concepts law bans classroom discussions
(05:31):
related to things that are considered device of concepts, but they haven't really sort
of laid that out in a way that teachers, curriculum, developers, school systems really know how
to navigate it.
So it's really having this chilling effect for a lot of teachers, teacher students, everybody
to talk about sort of what is the real history of the South?
(05:54):
What is the real history of black folks in the United States, black folks in the South,
enslavement, all of those things are wrapped up in this very vague definition that is impacting
the work of people who really want to create media in a way that is thoughtful, critical
and informative to teacher students and families, caregivers.
(06:18):
So that's interesting tension that we're sort of facing in this work because we're media
makers, right?
We're trying to make media as a liberatory tool, right?
So how do you do that?
Yeah.
I'm listening to you talk through the House bill a little bit.
(06:40):
And we are fully aware.
It's a brief snapshot and these are larger layered conversations.
And so listeners, as you're listening and thinking how you're experiencing the House
bill in a range of ways.
Some people agree, some people don't.
And I'm not trying to play both sides.
What we're getting to is the nuance of this, right?
(07:03):
And how do you talk about history, present, past, future?
How do you talk about lived experiences?
How do you talk about what people are feeling as they've experienced these things?
How do you talk about and teach and explore these?
How do you teach students how to talk and think through, you know, teaching them how
(07:28):
to go and research for themselves, right?
Media as we know is an incredible tool, as you were saying, Gaby, to do this.
And so that's why we decided for this grant to write in media.
Media as one of the many tools for education.
Media in the South has a long rich history of both intersecting social, emotional, intersecting
(07:55):
civil rights, intersecting storytelling, intersecting music, so much media in the South.
What's the Andre 3000?
The South has something to say, right?
Go ahead.
That's all I got to say.
But it's like, did the South got something to say?
That's all I got to say.
Right?
He, like, yes, we are in Atlanta.
(08:15):
Like, having Andre 3000 say that was really impactful for me as somebody going into media
making, right?
You do have some, the South has something to say for sure.
Yeah.
And so we are doing that with this project, this podcast is one part of it.
And simultaneously, I will say, with what was happening, what was happening is happening
(08:38):
with legislation, our culture, our environment, the temperature of our environment here in
Atlanta in the South as we were writing this grant, people within CREATE researchers, staff
members, students, caregivers, all the people, part of the project, we're thinking through,
what's our framing philosophy for this work?
(09:00):
How do we frame this?
How do we root this work?
It's not just something we're pulling out of thin air.
What are ways that we frame this work, all aspects of it?
The teacher residency, the research, our operations team, and our community engagement
and continue education team, which is where this podcast is kind of sitting.
(09:20):
And we came up with our non-negotiables, right?
Four ways that can help us frame and navigate this work.
Gabby, can you read them and just talk about them just for a second?
Sure.
So let me just go through.
So, you know, the non-negotiables, and I came to this work late.
So I just started with the CREATE project in 2023.
(09:42):
I was...
Welcome to have you.
I'm so glad to be here.
I came from Georgia State University's Center for Excellence Teaching, Learning, and Online
Education as a multimedia...
Amazing place.
Woohoo!
Amazing place.
So I came to this work.
Dana invited me to join to bring what I bring, which is, you know, video and podcasting and
(10:03):
all that good stuff.
So it had been really helpful for me to situate myself in the non-negotiables and really sort
of understand what I was coming into and understand the greater of than just me in a job.
So the non-negotiables are attuned to our geo-social historical and political situatedness.
(10:24):
So we have to understand, engage with Atlanta history with a focus on actively anti-racist
practices and black excellence.
Work within and dismantle oppressive schooling and surveillance structures.
Never celebrate that we were awarded a grant and must do this work differently.
And so that's number one.
(10:45):
Number two is the CREATE project is democratic and participatory in nature, which means that
everybody in this project has a voice.
And I will say coming in and coming into like higher...
You know, I've worked at Georgia State University for 20 years in different roles.
And this is the first time that I'm watching people navigate hierarchy and break it down
(11:09):
in real time.
That's a university systems aren't set up that way, right?
Hierarchy is in everything we do in every place we are.
And so it's been interesting to watch people try to like fight that white supremacist hierarchical
model that we're all sort of having to navigate in the systems we operate in.
So that's been really helpful to me.
(11:30):
It's been really helpful for me to sit with myself and figure out like where these things
are coming from.
I'm very much that person.
I'm a Gen X woman.
I, you know, I am absolutely produce, produce, produce.
And so having to sit back and sit with myself for a second and sort of reexamine all of
those lessons that I was, you know, grew up with has been really helpful for me.
(11:53):
Number three is to commit to an onto epistemological orientation rooted in critical theories and
abolition.
No, what's that mean?
Okay.
And that's, you know, and I, you know, with the words, the words are large.
You're doing it.
Ask ourselves always how all of our work is rooted in critical frameworks that allow us
(12:15):
to consider how power and domination show up in our work.
And this is that thing we were talking about, right?
With like the white supremacist structures that have sort of operated on all of us and
create this perpetuation of this system that oppresses or systems that oppress, right?
You know, can I pop in for a second?
(12:35):
Cause you've mentioned white supremacist structures a couple of times.
And I think being here in the South, being here in this context, people might be like,
what does she mean?
What I, you know, there can be probably a, you know, a reaction.
And you know, this podcast is short listeners.
If you want us to dig in more, let's dig in more.
But this is what we're talking about.
(12:56):
Let's talk, right?
Let's talk about and not just high sweep under a rug.
So power and, you know, like you're saying, hierarchical leadership, hierarchies, all
of these pieces, what Gabby is doing, she's explaining, you know, again, the non-negotiables
(13:17):
is leaning into a transparency and I would say a type of honesty that I think often we
just kind of have a lot of hushed tones around things instead of saying, hey, let's address
it.
Does this make sense?
You know what I mean?
(13:37):
I'm just, I just wanted to interject for a second because I can hear you.
And I think that's exactly what you're, that's exactly at the root of divisive concepts,
right?
The fact that we're just structuring of this is hard.
I don't want to talk about it.
I don't want to look at it.
So we're just going to not talk about it because we don't want white folks to be upset.
And I'm a white lady, white and Cuban lady.
(13:58):
I am contending with all of those things.
The recognition that baked into these kinds of bookbans, divisive concepts law, legislatures
passing things where we can't talk about certain things.
Let me not say their names because it's like calling Candyman to the room.
(14:18):
But I think those are the things that we really are sort of wrestling with and understanding
because we have to confront it because it doesn't matter.
It's there.
Right?
Yeah.
Yes.
Even if we don't talk about it, it's still in the room.
And that's why we would like, you know, I know we have, we've talked about three non-negotiations.
We have one more.
That's why we're doing the media component of this grant, this work.
(14:43):
And I'll get to kind of the history of where this came from, but what you say, Gabby, right
there, let's talk about it.
Let's wrestle with it.
And media is an incredible, can be an incredible space to do that.
And I think education and media and teacher preparation, there's a lot that we can do
and it hasn't been the focus.
It hasn't been lifted up tool to dig into these conversations.
(15:07):
Right.
Let's dig into that a little bit, but there's one more non-negotiable.
So the last one is sort of why we're here, right?
It's emphasize learning as liberation.
So draw on teaching practices, media, any kind of content development that builds upon
abolitionists and abolitionist education, accountability to community, transformation,
(15:29):
radical joy and liberation for all.
Not some, not the folks who aren't being talked about during divisive concept in the histories
that are being talked about during divisive concepts, but everyone.
So always questioning what, why, how and to what end our work is serving students, caregivers,
community members, teachers, all of the important people that we come into contact with daily
(15:53):
and sort of how do we advocate to and situate our work that comes along to support the work
that they do.
And that right there, those four non-negotiables, that conversation was part of the framing
for how we wrote this work into the grant.
And so long, you know, 2022, long before Gabby was a part of the project, I, you know, I
(16:17):
had the idea and actually the podcast, I believe was an idea with someone who's going to do
a podcast in the future, Dr. Camila Davis.
And so I came on after that.
And I saw, I believe that Dr. Davis was came up with the idea for research dissemination,
have a podcast.
And then when I came along, I was like, okay, you can disseminate research and more, right?
(16:41):
We can do micro-credentialing to support a range of educators and a range of positions
within their career to come on in, get connected through some micro courses to Georgia State's
incredible College of Education, the entire universities, come on in through some micro-credentials,
right?
Come on in through some create online videos.
(17:03):
These are, like Gabby said, interviews with people around Atlanta, historians, former educators,
future educators from a range of backgrounds who want to talk about their work rooted in
and around Atlanta for education.
And again, we talked about graphic novels, short form content, a range of ways to interact.
(17:25):
And that's what we wrote up.
It got graciously funded by our federal government.
And you can see in the bottom of this podcast notes exactly how we talk about that.
And that's what we're excited.
We did it.
We didn't just say we were going to do it.
We're doing it.
And that's what this podcast is a part of.
(17:48):
That's right.
That's right.
Yeah.
And I'm so happy to be here to contribute in the way that I can with technical skills,
right?
And I'm so happy to be here as a graduate of Georgia State's film department, getting my
master's in film while I worked here.
So anybody who is looking for advanced degrees, y'all get a job at Georgia State.
(18:09):
And then you can go for free.
Highly recommend.
It is a way to afford higher education in these times of lots of student debt.
So that's how I did it.
I recommend everybody else do it that way too.
Right.
Pitch.
And my entry into this has been just as a, I've been a former teacher, higher ed administrator.
(18:34):
I've been at Georgia State for about 10 years and have always included incorporated media
into all aspects of the work.
And I've always said that if I got an opportunity to intersect teacher education and media content
creation for and by educators, I would try to do it.
And so it aligned up here at Create.
(18:55):
So really excited about that opportunity.
And then I get to work with Gabby full disclosure.
We met at the elevators on the third floor in the college of education just outside the
incredible crimson.
Her whoo, whoo shout out to the crimson or Dr. Luanda Cummings.
You can hear her bonus episode about the upcoming conference and outside of where were you?
(19:17):
So I was an assistant director for the office of academic assistance in college of education
and human development at Georgia State.
And so we advised graduate students and undergraduate students on, you know, teacher prep and how
to navigate teacher certification and getting your degree and finishing.
And, you know, I came into a contact with a lot of students at Georgia State, both graduate
(19:41):
and undergraduate who really were looking to make the world a better place by being teachers.
So it was a really, it was a great privilege I had to be there in that space.
And with an amazing crew, I'm going to shout out Carla, Michelle and Caroline who were
in that office being advisors.
So yeah, kind of wrapping up this bonus episode.
(20:02):
We want to give you all just a little peek behind the curtain to see kind of where this
type of work came from, how it's connected to the Create project and the incredible work
that we're doing and how it's connecting to the community.
And so you've heard a few of the episodes so far, just really powerful, rich conversations
(20:22):
and we have some really important and powerful episodes coming up.
For example, we are going to be talking with John Pascarella out at USC.
You're like, what?
USC?
Listen, I hear you.
Yes, USC.
He is a professor at the Rossier School of Education.
(20:44):
And we're going to be talking about some new work that he and his colleagues have done
a book called The Big Lie about race in America schools.
Really, really interesting stuff.
Just kind of, we're going to come at it.
He's been following the work of Create and us being again, rooted in the South and the
work we're doing and environment here in the South.
(21:07):
What does this look like in other places?
What are they learning from the South and the work that we are doing?
Check that out.
That podcast is coming up.
Gabby, what else is coming up?
What's making you interested besides everything?
What's coming up?
Well, I'm excited.
(21:27):
We are going to be filming when we return from fall break again, shout out APS, DeKalb
County fall break.
Fall break.
Getting the students some rest and the teachers some rest.
So appreciate y'all and the parents.
And the school leadership, everybody.
Everybody gets a rest.
Everybody.
So we appreciate y'all.
School staff, everybody.
(21:48):
Everybody.
We are going to be filming coming up for the online create ed series.
We are going to be filming Mrs. Marilyn Earrington, who was a lifelong teacher in Atlanta public
schools and she has recently returned to Georgia State as a student.
So she retired from APS and is coming back as a student.
(22:10):
And so we sort of wanted to figure out like what, why?
I would love to hear her story.
You want to hear what she has to say about the history of APS, her history.
So yeah, I'm really interested in that.
And that's coming up too pretty soon on, we're going to film that soon.
As well as some podcasts with create residency staff and talking to create resident alumni,
(22:33):
create current residents, create co-teachers, create instructional mentors.
So we got a lot of and more from our research team.
As well as we're working on a bonus episode from our S&O team, sustainability and operations
team that for those of you who are listening who work in the behind the scenes of things,
(22:57):
you don't get talked about.
You don't get seen, right?
Things just happen.
They don't just happen, do they?
No, we're going to be talking to the people in the back end that make things happen for
our create project as well.
So we got a lot coming up, but we thank you for being on the journey with us so far.
Let us know what you're thinking.
(23:17):
Let us know what you want to hear.
Share our podcast.
What do the youth say?
Like and subscribe.
All the things.
I'm Jen X too.
So I'm embracing it.
Let's go.
Let's go.
Jen Alpha is the last one is coming in January 25 and then it's the next one.
(23:39):
So let's go all the generations.
Let's go.
Hello.
The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed are the speaker's own and do not represent
(00:08):
the views, thoughts, and opinions of Georgia State University.
The material and information presented here is for general information purposes only.
The Georgia State University name and all forms and abbreviations are the property of
its owner and its use does not imply endorsement of or opposition to any specific organization,
(00:34):
product, or service.
Hi everybody, welcome to a bonus episode of the Create Ed podcast.
Today we're going to do things a little bit differently, but as always, before we get started,
can we take a moment and just take a breath and then go ahead and let that out and take
(01:01):
one more breath and go ahead and let that out.
All right, there's a lot going on.
It's fall and what I'm excited about right now is Gaby McNichol is with me today.
Hey Gaby.
Hello.
I'm so glad to be here with you.
(01:23):
Really excited to talk to you in this special bonus episode that we have.
Fall break is next week for Atlanta Public Schools and a lot of Metro Atlanta.
Woo hoo.
And yes, into Cab County schools, some of them as well.
So we are going to be having a shorter bonus episode to respect everybody's break, to
respect everybody's time.
(01:44):
Thank you.
I know folks are going out of town, in town, staycation, vacation, so all that good stuff.
That's right, all the occasions.
So I'm super excited to be here with Dana, Dana Salter, and to talk about create media
assets and media production in this current climate.
Yeah, you know, and Gaby, just for our audience, you listeners, our friends joining us here,
(02:10):
we are the executive producers of this podcast for the Create Project.
And so we, you know, Gaby, Gaby, what do you do?
I'm not going to talk for you.
I'm not going to teach you.
You can always talk for me.
So I do media production, media and microcredentialing for the Create Project.
(02:31):
So all of what we're doing is sort of creating media assets like podcasts.
So this is very meta to be talking about the podcast on the podcast.
We are doing Create Ed Online, which is a series of interviews with Atlanta historians,
Atlanta teachers, Atlanta activists, talking about their work so that we can create video
(02:53):
media for teachers and for students and for caregivers and all of the wonderful community
around Atlanta Public Schools and Metro Atlanta Schools, really.
Yeah, and that, yeah.
And you got me thinking also, we got the Create Ed, Create Online, where we'll house all of
those things, but we also have some other things kind of simmering too.
(03:15):
And that kind of fits under the umbrella of this work as a part of the Create Project,
the Teacher Residency Project.
So there's folks who've talked about some graphic novel work, some short form video
essay content, lots of different ways people can envision interacting with our work and
how it connects to education here in Atlanta, rooted in the South.
(03:39):
And I think that's a really important foundation to our work, you know, that it is, this is
by design, we are being intentional, and this work is federally funded, as well as locally
philanthropically funded.
So we had to write a grant in order to be able to do this work.
(04:00):
And so that in itself is a lot, right, because there's things you have to think about what
the grants are asking for, what our philanthropic friends and partners are looking for, as well
as the context and climate in which we are doing this work.
And so this particular grant that we are a part of that funded us to do the work, we
(04:21):
started writing it in the spring of 2022, and it was funded in the fall of 2022.
And that was an interesting time.
Gabby, you want to take it away?
Yeah, I thank you for that context.
I think what's really important is we are in the South.
And so we've seen this incredible push in our legislatures in the South in particular
(04:47):
to have new laws that prohibit the discussions of things called device of concept.
So in Georgia, we're sort of teachers, students, caregivers, the folks around the support structures
around education are sort of trying to navigate we in 2022 Georgia legislature past divisive
(05:08):
concepts.
And that's going to be 1084.
And so let me actually read you the text of the device of concepts just so that we have
a better indication.
The law directly addresses issues related to race, but does not explicitly mention curriculum
related to gender identity or sexuality.
So it's super vague the text of the device of concepts law bans classroom discussions
(05:31):
related to things that are considered device of concepts, but they haven't really sort
of laid that out in a way that teachers, curriculum, developers, school systems really know how
to navigate it.
So it's really having this chilling effect for a lot of teachers, teacher students, everybody
to talk about sort of what is the real history of the South?
(05:54):
What is the real history of black folks in the United States, black folks in the South,
enslavement, all of those things are wrapped up in this very vague definition that is impacting
the work of people who really want to create media in a way that is thoughtful, critical
and informative to teacher students and families, caregivers.
(06:18):
So that's interesting tension that we're sort of facing in this work because we're media
makers, right?
We're trying to make media as a liberatory tool, right?
So how do you do that?
Yeah.
I'm listening to you talk through the House bill a little bit.
(06:40):
And we are fully aware.
It's a brief snapshot and these are larger layered conversations.
And so listeners, as you're listening and thinking how you're experiencing the House
bill in a range of ways.
Some people agree, some people don't.
And I'm not trying to play both sides.
What we're getting to is the nuance of this, right?
(07:03):
And how do you talk about history, present, past, future?
How do you talk about lived experiences?
How do you talk about what people are feeling as they've experienced these things?
How do you talk about and teach and explore these?
How do you teach students how to talk and think through, you know, teaching them how
(07:28):
to go and research for themselves, right?
Media as we know is an incredible tool, as you were saying, Gaby, to do this.
And so that's why we decided for this grant to write in media.
Media as one of the many tools for education.
Media in the South has a long rich history of both intersecting social, emotional, intersecting
(07:55):
civil rights, intersecting storytelling, intersecting music, so much media in the South.
What's the Andre 3000?
The South has something to say, right?
Go ahead.
That's all I got to say.
But it's like, did the South got something to say?
That's all I got to say.
Right?
He, like, yes, we are in Atlanta.
(08:15):
Like, having Andre 3000 say that was really impactful for me as somebody going into media
making, right?
You do have some, the South has something to say for sure.
Yeah.
And so we are doing that with this project, this podcast is one part of it.
And simultaneously, I will say, with what was happening, what was happening is happening
(08:38):
with legislation, our culture, our environment, the temperature of our environment here in
Atlanta in the South as we were writing this grant, people within CREATE researchers, staff
members, students, caregivers, all the people, part of the project, we're thinking through,
what's our framing philosophy for this work?
(09:00):
How do we frame this?
How do we root this work?
It's not just something we're pulling out of thin air.
What are ways that we frame this work, all aspects of it?
The teacher residency, the research, our operations team, and our community engagement
and continue education team, which is where this podcast is kind of sitting.
(09:20):
And we came up with our non-negotiables, right?
Four ways that can help us frame and navigate this work.
Gabby, can you read them and just talk about them just for a second?
Sure.
So let me just go through.
So, you know, the non-negotiables, and I came to this work late.
So I just started with the CREATE project in 2023.
(09:42):
I was...
Welcome to have you.
I'm so glad to be here.
I came from Georgia State University's Center for Excellence Teaching, Learning, and Online
Education as a multimedia...
Amazing place.
Woohoo!
Amazing place.
So I came to this work.
Dana invited me to join to bring what I bring, which is, you know, video and podcasting and
(10:03):
all that good stuff.
So it had been really helpful for me to situate myself in the non-negotiables and really sort
of understand what I was coming into and understand the greater of than just me in a job.
So the non-negotiables are attuned to our geo-social historical and political situatedness.
(10:24):
So we have to understand, engage with Atlanta history with a focus on actively anti-racist
practices and black excellence.
Work within and dismantle oppressive schooling and surveillance structures.
Never celebrate that we were awarded a grant and must do this work differently.
And so that's number one.
(10:45):
Number two is the CREATE project is democratic and participatory in nature, which means that
everybody in this project has a voice.
And I will say coming in and coming into like higher...
You know, I've worked at Georgia State University for 20 years in different roles.
And this is the first time that I'm watching people navigate hierarchy and break it down
(11:09):
in real time.
That's a university systems aren't set up that way, right?
Hierarchy is in everything we do in every place we are.
And so it's been interesting to watch people try to like fight that white supremacist hierarchical
model that we're all sort of having to navigate in the systems we operate in.
So that's been really helpful to me.
(11:30):
It's been really helpful for me to sit with myself and figure out like where these things
are coming from.
I'm very much that person.
I'm a Gen X woman.
I, you know, I am absolutely produce, produce, produce.
And so having to sit back and sit with myself for a second and sort of reexamine all of
those lessons that I was, you know, grew up with has been really helpful for me.
(11:53):
Number three is to commit to an onto epistemological orientation rooted in critical theories and
abolition.
No, what's that mean?
Okay.
And that's, you know, and I, you know, with the words, the words are large.
You're doing it.
Ask ourselves always how all of our work is rooted in critical frameworks that allow us
(12:15):
to consider how power and domination show up in our work.
And this is that thing we were talking about, right?
With like the white supremacist structures that have sort of operated on all of us and
create this perpetuation of this system that oppresses or systems that oppress, right?
You know, can I pop in for a second?
(12:35):
Cause you've mentioned white supremacist structures a couple of times.
And I think being here in the South, being here in this context, people might be like,
what does she mean?
What I, you know, there can be probably a, you know, a reaction.
And you know, this podcast is short listeners.
If you want us to dig in more, let's dig in more.
But this is what we're talking about.
(12:56):
Let's talk, right?
Let's talk about and not just high sweep under a rug.
So power and, you know, like you're saying, hierarchical leadership, hierarchies, all
of these pieces, what Gabby is doing, she's explaining, you know, again, the non-negotiables
(13:17):
is leaning into a transparency and I would say a type of honesty that I think often we
just kind of have a lot of hushed tones around things instead of saying, hey, let's address
it.
Does this make sense?
You know what I mean?
(13:37):
I'm just, I just wanted to interject for a second because I can hear you.
And I think that's exactly what you're, that's exactly at the root of divisive concepts,
right?
The fact that we're just structuring of this is hard.
I don't want to talk about it.
I don't want to look at it.
So we're just going to not talk about it because we don't want white folks to be upset.
And I'm a white lady, white and Cuban lady.
(13:58):
I am contending with all of those things.
The recognition that baked into these kinds of bookbans, divisive concepts law, legislatures
passing things where we can't talk about certain things.
Let me not say their names because it's like calling Candyman to the room.
(14:18):
But I think those are the things that we really are sort of wrestling with and understanding
because we have to confront it because it doesn't matter.
It's there.
Right?
Yeah.
Yes.
Even if we don't talk about it, it's still in the room.
And that's why we would like, you know, I know we have, we've talked about three non-negotiations.
We have one more.
That's why we're doing the media component of this grant, this work.
(14:43):
And I'll get to kind of the history of where this came from, but what you say, Gabby, right
there, let's talk about it.
Let's wrestle with it.
And media is an incredible, can be an incredible space to do that.
And I think education and media and teacher preparation, there's a lot that we can do
and it hasn't been the focus.
It hasn't been lifted up tool to dig into these conversations.
(15:07):
Right.
Let's dig into that a little bit, but there's one more non-negotiable.
So the last one is sort of why we're here, right?
It's emphasize learning as liberation.
So draw on teaching practices, media, any kind of content development that builds upon
abolitionists and abolitionist education, accountability to community, transformation,
(15:29):
radical joy and liberation for all.
Not some, not the folks who aren't being talked about during divisive concept in the histories
that are being talked about during divisive concepts, but everyone.
So always questioning what, why, how and to what end our work is serving students, caregivers,
community members, teachers, all of the important people that we come into contact with daily
(15:53):
and sort of how do we advocate to and situate our work that comes along to support the work
that they do.
And that right there, those four non-negotiables, that conversation was part of the framing
for how we wrote this work into the grant.
And so long, you know, 2022, long before Gabby was a part of the project, I, you know, I
(16:17):
had the idea and actually the podcast, I believe was an idea with someone who's going to do
a podcast in the future, Dr. Camila Davis.
And so I came on after that.
And I saw, I believe that Dr. Davis was came up with the idea for research dissemination,
have a podcast.
And then when I came along, I was like, okay, you can disseminate research and more, right?
(16:41):
We can do micro-credentialing to support a range of educators and a range of positions
within their career to come on in, get connected through some micro courses to Georgia State's
incredible College of Education, the entire universities, come on in through some micro-credentials,
right?
Come on in through some create online videos.
(17:03):
These are, like Gabby said, interviews with people around Atlanta, historians, former educators,
future educators from a range of backgrounds who want to talk about their work rooted in
and around Atlanta for education.
And again, we talked about graphic novels, short form content, a range of ways to interact.
(17:25):
And that's what we wrote up.
It got graciously funded by our federal government.
And you can see in the bottom of this podcast notes exactly how we talk about that.
And that's what we're excited.
We did it.
We didn't just say we were going to do it.
We're doing it.
And that's what this podcast is a part of.
(17:48):
That's right.
That's right.
Yeah.
And I'm so happy to be here to contribute in the way that I can with technical skills,
right?
And I'm so happy to be here as a graduate of Georgia State's film department, getting my
master's in film while I worked here.
So anybody who is looking for advanced degrees, y'all get a job at Georgia State.
(18:09):
And then you can go for free.
Highly recommend.
It is a way to afford higher education in these times of lots of student debt.
So that's how I did it.
I recommend everybody else do it that way too.
Right.
Pitch.
And my entry into this has been just as a, I've been a former teacher, higher ed administrator.
(18:34):
I've been at Georgia State for about 10 years and have always included incorporated media
into all aspects of the work.
And I've always said that if I got an opportunity to intersect teacher education and media content
creation for and by educators, I would try to do it.
And so it aligned up here at Create.
(18:55):
So really excited about that opportunity.
And then I get to work with Gabby full disclosure.
We met at the elevators on the third floor in the college of education just outside the
incredible crimson.
Her whoo, whoo shout out to the crimson or Dr. Luanda Cummings.
You can hear her bonus episode about the upcoming conference and outside of where were you?
(19:17):
So I was an assistant director for the office of academic assistance in college of education
and human development at Georgia State.
And so we advised graduate students and undergraduate students on, you know, teacher prep and how
to navigate teacher certification and getting your degree and finishing.
And, you know, I came into a contact with a lot of students at Georgia State, both graduate
(19:41):
and undergraduate who really were looking to make the world a better place by being teachers.
So it was a really, it was a great privilege I had to be there in that space.
And with an amazing crew, I'm going to shout out Carla, Michelle and Caroline who were
in that office being advisors.
So yeah, kind of wrapping up this bonus episode.
(20:02):
We want to give you all just a little peek behind the curtain to see kind of where this
type of work came from, how it's connected to the Create project and the incredible work
that we're doing and how it's connecting to the community.
And so you've heard a few of the episodes so far, just really powerful, rich conversations
(20:22):
and we have some really important and powerful episodes coming up.
For example, we are going to be talking with John Pascarella out at USC.
You're like, what?
USC?
Listen, I hear you.
Yes, USC.
He is a professor at the Rossier School of Education.
(20:44):
And we're going to be talking about some new work that he and his colleagues have done
a book called The Big Lie about race in America schools.
Really, really interesting stuff.
Just kind of, we're going to come at it.
He's been following the work of Create and us being again, rooted in the South and the
work we're doing and environment here in the South.
(21:07):
What does this look like in other places?
What are they learning from the South and the work that we are doing?
Check that out.
That podcast is coming up.
Gabby, what else is coming up?
What's making you interested besides everything?
What's coming up?
Well, I'm excited.
(21:27):
We are going to be filming when we return from fall break again, shout out APS, DeKalb
County fall break.
Fall break.
Getting the students some rest and the teachers some rest.
So appreciate y'all and the parents.
And the school leadership, everybody.
Everybody gets a rest.
Everybody.
So we appreciate y'all.
School staff, everybody.
(21:48):
Everybody.
We are going to be filming coming up for the online create ed series.
We are going to be filming Mrs. Marilyn Earrington, who was a lifelong teacher in Atlanta public
schools and she has recently returned to Georgia State as a student.
So she retired from APS and is coming back as a student.
(22:10):
And so we sort of wanted to figure out like what, why?
I would love to hear her story.
You want to hear what she has to say about the history of APS, her history.
So yeah, I'm really interested in that.
And that's coming up too pretty soon on, we're going to film that soon.
As well as some podcasts with create residency staff and talking to create resident alumni,
(22:33):
create current residents, create co-teachers, create instructional mentors.
So we got a lot of and more from our research team.
As well as we're working on a bonus episode from our S&O team, sustainability and operations
team that for those of you who are listening who work in the behind the scenes of things,
(22:57):
you don't get talked about.
You don't get seen, right?
Things just happen.
They don't just happen, do they?
No, we're going to be talking to the people in the back end that make things happen for
our create project as well.
So we got a lot coming up, but we thank you for being on the journey with us so far.
Let us know what you're thinking.
(23:17):
Let us know what you want to hear.
Share our podcast.
What do the youth say?
Like and subscribe.
All the things.
I'm Jen X too.
So I'm embracing it.
Let's go.
Let's go.
Jen Alpha is the last one is coming in January 25 and then it's the next one.
(23:39):
So let's go all the generations.
Let's go.
Hello.
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