Unbelievable Sports Finishes and Learning to Win

In this episode of the Created to Be podcast, Bethany and Justin fly duo and shift from relationships to the idea of finishing well and learning how to win. They start with some fun FCA updates then dive into some of the wildest finishes in sports they can remember. From there, the conversation turns to what a winner’s mentality actually looks like: playing to your standard, not just the scoreboard; treating losing as data, not discouragement; and learning to face failure instead of hiding from it. Justin shares stories from his own pitching career, including painful outings, pressure moments, and how good coaching and God’s work in his heart helped him grow.

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
You just don't flip a coin and become a good
finisher.
I do think it's daily practicehabits.
Yeah.
And I I had people model thatfor me.
I had coaches instill thosethings in me.
Yes, I had to choose to do it,but again, it takes a village.

SPEAKER_00 (00:19):
Welcome to the Created to Be podcast.
We're back for another week, andit's just the two of us.

SPEAKER_01 (00:26):
We can make it if we try.
Just the two of us.
Okay.
And I'm not a singer.
That's not good.

SPEAKER_00 (00:32):
We are gonna try to make it, but we lost a lot of
personality between the two ofus, with Darius not being here
and fun comments and laughs fromBrandy.
Um, but we are gonna do our bestto give you a good show today.
So welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 (00:51):
Hey, let's do it.

SPEAKER_00 (00:52):
So we're gonna be kind of more like co-hosts
today.
I'm gonna rely on Justin, butthen maybe towards the end, I
think it's gonna be interviewstyle where you're gonna hear a
lot more from Justin.
Uh so we're just gonna roll withwhat we got.
Um, but we want to say hello andwelcome in.
We have had a great time talkingabout relationships, but we are
gonna change the tone this week.
We are going to talk aboutfinishing.

(01:12):
One of the things that I haveheard several times, just being
in and around athletes andcoaches, is that it takes
knowing how to win, learning howto win to be a winner.
So I want to kind of explorethis topic.
What are you smiling about,Jessica?

SPEAKER_01 (01:28):
Winners win, losers lose.
Let's go play.

SPEAKER_00 (01:32):
The jokes.
Yeah.
So one of the things before weget into that topic, I just
wanted to just mention why we'redoing this podcast.
I've thought about um justcoming back and reiterating what
the feel of this podcast issupposed to be.
I just realized that there's alot of things out there that are
prescriptive, or that if youwant to do know how to do

(01:53):
something or really think deeplyabout things, um, there that
stuff is out there and is goodstuff.
I mean, there's all kinds ofleadership podcasts, spiritual
podcasts, um, Bible study typepodcasts, everything like that.
And so what I have found veryhelpful at this stage of life,
and maybe it's because I've gotjust a lot going on, and I don't
want to overwhelm my brain withmore information necessarily.

(02:15):
Um, it's just easy listening.
And I personally like comedy andthere's some clean comics out
there that I like to listen to,and they have podcasts, and it's
just one of those things where Ican go on a walk, I can be
riding in the car, I can befolding clothes, and I can just
listen to this conversation thatthey're having and feel like I'm
at the table with them.
And so hopefully we areproviding some sort of

(02:38):
conversation that you can justengage in or passively listen to
if that's for you, but that it'seasy listening and something
that you can always count onthat's gonna be encouraging, um,
that's gonna be uh funny.
Hopefully, sometimes we canbring some humor to it and maybe
relevant too.
Maybe there's topics that we'retalking about.

SPEAKER_01 (02:55):
And feel free to comment.
Your comments are fun.
So Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (02:59):
Yeah, we like to hear feedback, whether that's in
person or if you want to use thesend us a text link in the show
notes or um Mississippi StateFCA at gmail.com.
That's another great way to getin touch with us.
So we like to start off withjust what we're seeing in FCA.
And we have recently uh done agirls and guys night where we

(03:20):
split up and the girls went touh just do some gingerbread
house competition decorating.
That was a lot of fun and justhang out and have a good time.
Uh so that was really fun.
We got, you know, it's alwaysfun when there's people who
might not always come to FCA inthat environment.
It's kind of a way for them tocome and experience us and get a
feel for what who we are and thepeople that show up to FCA.

(03:42):
So I feel like that's what I sawwhen we had that night and yeah,
just a good break from the grindof sports and school.
And so we had we had a lot offun.
What about you guys?

SPEAKER_01 (03:53):
Yeah, I think anytime you mix in fire and
football and some hot dogs, somes'mores, I think we had a good
time.
Yeah.
Good.
About 25 guys show up.
Um, thankful for the theAltmyers and uh just uh letting
us use their place and uh it wasgreat.
They had a basketball court outthere too.
So we got the good bit ofplaying and it was a good time.

SPEAKER_00 (04:13):
Oh, yeah.
I wanted to ask about that.
Did people get out there andplay?
Yeah, they did.
They did.
Did anybody win?

SPEAKER_01 (04:19):
You all just kind of uh I was running around with
Ben, making sure he was okay.
You didn't get it.
No, no, I didn't.

SPEAKER_00 (04:25):
Justin is something to behold playing basketball.
Reminds me of the Mississippicollege days of intramurals,
they actually let us play.

SPEAKER_01 (04:31):
I gotta pick my spots nowadays.
That was not a spot.

SPEAKER_00 (04:36):
Um, and at least the cowboys won too, so I'm always
for that.
Um, as a Mississippi State fan,too, Justin, you're now for that
when the Cowboys win because ofDak.

SPEAKER_01 (04:45):
Yes, I'm a DAC fan.
Just to be clear.
Just leave it at that.

SPEAKER_00 (04:50):
That's hilarious.
Well, we wanted to give anupdate.
We are not having the pickleballtournament.
We didn't have the pickleballtournament by the time this
comes out.
Um, it just there was too shortof a registration window.
We kind of got hung up on someregistration link situation.
And then we also, there waspotential weather.
And so we really want to makethis a community event and
something that people can lookforward to and engage with.

(05:12):
And we'd hate to cut it short ofwhat it could be.
So we're gonna postpone that tothe spring.
So I would just encourage all ofyou who play pickleball out
there to be prepared late March,early April for a date for the
FCA open.
It's gonna be um a good time.
I feel like I'm saying good timeand fun a lot.
So that's what we like to dohere.
Anyway, uh, we're excited aboutthat.

(05:33):
All right, so the stretch time,we're gonna get into the
stretch, and this idea offinishing is what I want to talk
about in the stretch today.
So I was thinking about momentsin sports that I could remember,
and I did my best to just comeup with these on the top of my
head if I could remember, justthat they were impressionable to

(05:54):
me that I could remember ofteams finishing well.
And some of these are a lot ofthese are actually championship
games, but I don't think thatthat is the qualifier.
It's just what do I remember hadto happen at the end of a game?
And we've had some that werecently talked about the
podcast that we witnessed withthe 18-inning game and the
11-inning game between theDodgers and the Blue Jays.

(06:17):
So those were two we alreadykind of extensively talked
about, so we don't have to talkabout those.

SPEAKER_01 (06:21):
The best world series.

SPEAKER_00 (06:22):
It was Yeah, that was that was wild.
Even I watched.
Um, but I wanted to see, Justin,if you remember the Giants game
who were that they were playing.

SPEAKER_01 (06:32):
Playing the Patriots.

SPEAKER_00 (06:33):
Okay, yeah.
And you had mentioned some otherdetails you did.

SPEAKER_01 (06:37):
Yeah, I don't know if that was the year or not.
I didn't look it up.
I don't know if that was theyear that the Patriots were
actually undefeated.
Um, but either way, the Giantsbeat the Patriots twice in the
Super Bowl.
Eli Manning was 2-0 against TomBrady in the Super Bowls.
Um but yeah, you're gonna goahead and talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 (06:55):
Yeah, so the game was when I don't even remember
the situation.

SPEAKER_01 (06:58):
I just remember the 2017.

SPEAKER_00 (07:02):
Okay, so the receiver caught the ball on the
up like around the helmet of thedefender and went all the way to
the ground and held keptpossession of the ball.

SPEAKER_01 (07:11):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (07:12):
So you can explain maybe the scenario.

SPEAKER_01 (07:16):
Giants are trying to drive.
Um, Eli actually gets out of asack, a couple sacks on that
play.
It was really amazing because hedoesn't like manu move a whole
lot, but he got out of the sackand just threw the ball up in
the air to David Tyree in themiddle of the field, like 50, 40
yard line on the Patriots side.
And Tyree has the helmet catch.

(07:38):
You know, he puts his hand upthere, grabs it, and secures it
on his helmet as he comes downwith defenders all around him
and hung on to the ball.
Um, yeah, and they went on toscore, ended up beating the
Patriots.

SPEAKER_00 (07:51):
Yeah, and if you haven't seen that catch, you
should Google that.

SPEAKER_01 (07:54):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (07:54):
It's unbelievable.

SPEAKER_01 (07:55):
It's it's unbelievable.

SPEAKER_00 (07:57):
Even I, again, was very impressed.
I'm not really the biggestsports fan.
I mean, I definitely get intocollege basketball, but that's
about it, I would say.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, okay, so then we were therefor this.
I say we, this would include myfamily.
Justin was not with me, but mydaughter Abby was with me.

(08:18):
We had just moved to Texas.
And thankfully, MississippiState women's basketball had was
in the Final Four in Texas.
Like, I don't even think thatDallas had hosted a Final Four.
So, very first Final Four hostwas Dallas.
We were living in Austin at thetime.
Me being an alumni ofMississippi State and the

(08:39):
basketball team for my for myteam, my alma mater, to be in
the final four, period, wasyeah, like just a few hours
away.
Crazy.
So I was like, we're definitelygoing.
And then we played Yukon with an11, 111-game win streak.
And so now it's termed the theshot that Morgan Williams hit

(08:59):
was the shot that rang aroundthe world, is what some people
say.
And that was the most electricfeeling I've ever had at a
sporting event event.
Even my dad, who was sitting infront of me and Abby, I don't
think I've ever seen him go socrazy at a sporting event.
Like he, it, I mean, I'm surethat on the opposite, like if

(09:20):
you're just watching it on TV,it was probably amazing.
But that comeback and the gritof our Mississippi State girls
team to finish that game likethat, unreal.
It was amazing.
You remember you were watchingthe game.

SPEAKER_01 (09:34):
I mean, yeah, we're screaming like crazy.
It was unbelievable.

SPEAKER_00 (09:37):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (09:37):
It was unbelievable.
I couldn't imagine being therelike that.

SPEAKER_00 (09:39):
That would be like, Yeah, I was, you know, we talk
about, we talk about just a fewepisodes ago, you know, we
talked about just watching thewhole game, a whole game, like
even if you're watching it onTV.
So there's like these, these,like, okay, watching the whole
game, you get the whole concept,so you can engage with it on a
different level.
Um, watching highlights, sure,you can get the general idea of

(10:00):
the game, be excited about it.
But when you're in it, even whenit's on the TV, but add like the
in-person dynamic, which is kindof sad that COVID, I feel like,
in a lot of ways, no matterwhere, like if it's a sporting
event, a concert, like it'staken a little bit of time to
get back in that rhythm of goingplaces because you just kind of
learned it's okay.
I can just watch it on TV.

SPEAKER_02 (10:20):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (10:20):
But I will say, as excited as I've gotten, let's
just say, about the World Seriesgames, the in-person, I don't
know what it is about it.
It's just so cool to be there.
And it's worth it uh to meanyway, to if I can make that
happen, because it is a comp itis a different experience.
Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_01 (10:39):
It is.

SPEAKER_00 (10:40):
And you know what?
The Yukon fans were very kindafter the game.
They were very respectable, likethey were bummed, obviously, but
they were so impressed.
And so, even as a MississippiState fan, they were tipping
their cap to us afterwards, justas we were walking back to our
car.
They were saying things, and soit was just a great game.
Like if you're a sports fan ofany kind to see that kind of uh

(11:02):
determination finish could havegone either way.
Thankfully, it went our way.
Very cool, very cool to bethere.

SPEAKER_01 (11:08):
Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_00 (11:10):
Another finish that came to mind was this was a wild
game.
You might remember when thisactually happened, but college
football when Alabama playedAuburn and you said it was
called something.
2013, the kick six.
The kick six.
So maybe you can explain it.
I just that just popped in myhead and I was like, okay.

SPEAKER_01 (11:30):
Iron Bowl, one of the toughest rivalry games, um,
if not the craziest.
And uh, you know, we could addto the list of rivalry games,
but this one's known, especiallyaround here.
Um, let's see, Alabama wastrying to drive to go down and
score, kick a field goal to winthe game.
And so they didn't get as far asthey wanted to.

(11:50):
Um, Nick Saban decided to goahead and kick a field goal
anyway, and it was a long wayaway.
I think it was like a 54 yard,50 something.
Long way for their kicker kick.
It was not a very, very smallchance of him making that.
And so um Auburn decided to putsomebody under the goal post in
the end zone and wait to see ifthe ball got there or not.

(12:12):
And uh sometimes that happens onlong kicks late in the game.
They'll do that, they'll send aperson back.
So that's the normal thing.
Yeah, if you catch the ball inplay, then you can return it.
Well, Alabama kicker kicks it,and uh actually I think there
was one second left too.

SPEAKER_02 (12:28):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (12:28):
So that was a significant stuff.
There's one second left, theygot reviewed, there's one second
left.
If the game was over, therewould have been a different
game, obviously.
But Saban decides to give it akick.
The ball goes short.
So when Chris Tavis caught theball, there's there's not a
whole lot of tacklers on thefield.
So you think about the bigO-line and the people in there
on the kicking team, um, not awhole lot of athletic guys, and

(12:50):
so he ran the ball all the wayback.
This was at Auburn, and so theplace just about exploded.
Pretty sure it was at Auburn.
And uh so that forever went downas the just the craziest thing.

SPEAKER_00 (13:01):
Okay, did they not know that they would have
somebody in the end zone?
Like, were they not prepared forsomebody to run the ball back if
it was short?

SPEAKER_01 (13:10):
I mean, I'm I'm sure they did, but it was the risk
they were willing to take ofgoing, okay, well, he's gonna
kick it out of bounds.

SPEAKER_00 (13:17):
So I think that I didn't realize that that I mean,
obviously at that level they'regonna think of that, but I
didn't even know that was like acommon thing that people, you
know, make sure, like if theyhave everybody lined up and it's
a really long field goal thatthey're gonna put a guy back
there.

SPEAKER_01 (13:30):
Yeah.
I mean, you still you have totake it a hundred and where he
caught it 110 yards all the wayback without anybody tackling.

SPEAKER_00 (13:38):
Okay, so I have a couple surprises that I
remembered that I didn't prepJustin on that I want to like
talk about.
This one warms my heart becausethis is my our era of
basketball.
Talk about when I was an NBA fanwas Michael Jordan, whenever he
had a hundred and somethingfever.

SPEAKER_01 (13:59):
Oh, the flu game.

SPEAKER_00 (14:00):
Flu game, yes.
And how this man scored, I thinkit said 38.
38, how do you gosh, because Ijust remember it.

SPEAKER_01 (14:08):
I just remember it.

SPEAKER_00 (14:09):
Yeah, that's how memorable it was.
Like crazy that the you know,the the Bulls were playing the
Utah Jazz.
Yeah, and it says he played 44minutes, scoring 38 points,
becoming a legendary example ofresilience.

SPEAKER_01 (14:28):
Yeah, Pippen was like carrying him off the court
between Tom Allison.

SPEAKER_00 (14:31):
I'm not saying I support that, like playing to
the point of kind of probablybeing scary, but I think that
the when we talk about likefinishing and a winner, like a
winner's mentality, I don'tknow.

SPEAKER_01 (14:47):
Jordan was ruthless, like he was.
Um also a cool thing aboutJordan is that he never took
games off.
Um he didn't believe in themanagement, load management.
That's not a knock on anybodynow, but his deal was people
were spending a lot of money,and sometimes it might be their
one chance to watch him play,and he wanted to be at his best

(15:08):
and do his best for them, forthose people that are
sacrificing for that.
So a different perspective withNBA players back then.
Jordan had that one.
A lot of those guys did again,not a knock on the current, but
the load management conversationcould be a whole nother stretch.

SPEAKER_00 (15:21):
Sure, yeah, um, a whole nother stretch.
Yeah, no, I'm just kidding.
Um, yeah, so that was one of thethings that I just immediately
when I thought about this topicof finishing.

SPEAKER_01 (15:32):
I mean, my It was also a playoff game, too, so he
wasn't gonna miss that.

SPEAKER_00 (15:35):
Right.
Yeah, and it says that they wentup 3-2.

SPEAKER_01 (15:38):
Yes, that was uh game five is massively
important.

SPEAKER_00 (15:41):
Yeah.
Makes me want to go back andwatch it.
Um, because I just rememberedthat as a kid.
And also, I mean, they what'sthe series that they did for
Michael Jordan?
What's it called?

SPEAKER_01 (15:53):
The Last Dance?
Yeah, The Last Dance.

SPEAKER_00 (15:54):
Yeah, they just I mean, you kind of get to see
more behind the scenes of I'mnot saying that I approve of
every way that he approachedwards of team teammates and all
that stuff, but you do start tosee like the mentality that he
had of just getting after it orholding it himself.
I think that would be differentif he didn't hold himself to a
standard, but he held himself toa standard and then demanded

(16:16):
that excellence out of histeammates.
And again, not always in themost appropriate ways, probably,
but that's Kobe was that waytoo.
Yeah, that's just what he yeah.
So, I mean, if you want to, ifanybody was interested in like
finishing, I mean, I feel likehe is the guy um for that.
But the other one that I thoughtof, which would be fun to talk
about, NC State men's basketballin 2024.

(16:41):
This was wild.
I don't I was just probablybored on a weekend and wanted
something to watch.
And I happened to turn on.
Why did I turn on the ACC men'sbasketball tournament?
Random.

SPEAKER_02 (16:52):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (16:52):
It's all get out.
But I happened to turn on the NCState game, their first game in
the ACC tournament, and theykept winning.
They won 11.
Yeah, no, they were the 11thseed, and they won the ACC
tournament.
And they had, oh, this is whatit was.

(17:14):
They went all the way throughthe NCAA tournament and had nine
consecutive elimination gamesbefore they lost to the number
one seed to Purdue.
Yes.
What?
Yes.
Like to if that's the interviewI would want those main five
guys, five, six guys, what theirmentality was because I mean,

(17:38):
there was so much on the brinkthat year.

SPEAKER_01 (17:41):
I think the coach was gonna get fired.

SPEAKER_00 (17:43):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (17:43):
Which he did the next year.
The next year he got fired.

SPEAKER_00 (17:46):
Right, right, right.
But I just I mean, I was sointrigued by like to follow
their story.
I have no connection to NCState.
I don't have any affiliation,but just to see these guys come
out and something was click.
I mean, they just clicked at theright time, but also you have to
have some kind of mentality tobe able to accomplish that.

(18:08):
You know, that's what I wouldwant to like ask Pry and ask a
lot of questions of like, whatwere y'all talking about in the
locker room?
What was the practice culturelike?
Like when you got to these gameswhere you could have lost, like
what are you saying in thehuddle?
Things like that.
Because I just like to learnwhat, you know, what is going on
mentally with these teams thatcan do this.
So, anyways, that was reallycool uh to watch that.

(18:29):
I mean, even I remember whenthey beat Yeah Duke in the Elite
Eight.

SPEAKER_01 (18:33):
And they also had a Muslim on their team who was
actually uh participating inRamadan.

SPEAKER_00 (18:37):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (18:38):
And so he wouldn't eat until the night.
And so uh yeah, that was nuts towatch him compete.
And so they had multiple likeback-to-back games.
So they had like five games in arow, I think, for one, four or
five games in a row to win theACC tournament.
Yeah, so they didn't get rest,and it's not like they had a ton
of bench guys.

SPEAKER_00 (18:55):
Yeah, I think that's the crazy, probably the craziest
thing about that whole thing.
I I think it also said on theinternet that they are the only
team, 11 seed to ever win thattournament, which makes sense.
So but I mean they had to rentwhat they didn't get any kind of
buy.
So they had to win and play allthese games back to back to
back, and that's just unheard offor a seed 11 seed to make it
that far.
So yeah, totally a team thatfinished uh finished really

(19:18):
well, clearly had somethinggoing on where they believed
they could win, and that's whatintrigues me is that belief, and
then to be able to go executethat time and time and time
again.
Did you have any others?

SPEAKER_01 (19:30):
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
This one broke college football,I feel like.
Okay.
For me, I remember this in '97.
Boise State was playingOklahoma.
Oklahoma was massively favored.
Boise State went undefeated thatyear, I believe, and um got a
chance to play in this BCS bowlgame.
Um, I don't think it was the itwasn't the title game, but it
was like a major bowl game, oneof the top four bowl games.

(19:53):
And Boise State got to play inone of those.
It was a big deal.
And I think previous teamsbefore never panned out.
Boise State beat Oklahoma.
But the crazy thing about it wasthe last drive.
It was just crazy.
Last drive, they broke out somecrazy plays.
One was a hook and ladder, whichyou can go look at what that
play is.
Pretty much a guy runs a shortcurl route or like a middle tier

(20:14):
curl route, catches the ball,and then there's another um
receiver coming the oppositedirection.
So once the guy catches it, heflips it behind him to the other
receiver cutting the other way.
So it throws the defense off.
They make a big play on a hookand ladder.
I think they score on it.
But then the next play is atwo-point conversion to win the
game.

SPEAKER_02 (20:33):
Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 (20:34):
So they run the Statue of Liberty play, which is
one of those like a fake pass,and the the quarterback takes a
fake pass, puts the ball behindhis back, the running back comes
behind it and grabs the ball andthen runs the opposite
direction.
Oh, wow.
And so it faked the defense out.
Two-point conversion, they winthe game.
I'm pretty sure the running backproposes to his fiance, like to

(20:54):
his girlfriend.

SPEAKER_00 (20:55):
Oh, nice.

SPEAKER_01 (20:55):
Um, that day.
Very efficient.
It was just, and it was just areally cool moment that I
remember watching.
Um, I think everybody became aBoise State fan that day.

SPEAKER_00 (21:06):
They're the ones with the blue field, right?

SPEAKER_01 (21:07):
Yes.
See, those are the details Iremember.
Okay, yeah, the blue field team.
Um, and then also, you know, itwas more football-related, but
Music City Miracle was a crazyfinish because uh they needed uh
the the Titans were down.
I believe they were playing theBills in the playoffs.
It was a wild card game in theplayoffs.
Poor Bills, man.
I couldn't catch a break.
Um, but they would uh they gotthe kickoff return, ran up to

(21:30):
the field on the right side, theguy turns and throws it directly
across the field, but behindenough because it can't be a
four-wonder forward pass.
And um and Kevin Dyson, Ibelieve, catches the ball and
takes it all the way down theother side of the field and
scores on the kickoff to win thegame.

SPEAKER_00 (21:48):
Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 (21:49):
That it was crazy, crazy.
Um and then another one, I thinkanother football game.
I'm thinking of 82.
I did look this one up because Iknew the it's the classic when
the band comes on the fieldthinking it's over.
So Cal gets a kickoff againstStanford and they um they flip
it around back and forth, backand forth, and they're just

(22:10):
playing keep away, and uh, andthey get past Stanford and end
up scoring a touchdown.
The guy who scored a touchdownhad to run through the band.

unknown (22:18):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (22:18):
And I'm pretty sure he decked a trombone player,
just squared him up, boom, andruns in the end zone.
And this is a classic umbroadcaster, like on it just
sharing like the band is on thefield, the band is on the field,
and then he scores, and thatman, what a what a mess.

SPEAKER_00 (22:34):
What about isn't there a game that was like
Appalachian State or somethinglike that?
And they beat Michigan, and thatwas like was that at the end of
the game though?

SPEAKER_01 (22:41):
Uh I don't know.
I don't know about that one, butI know that was pretty bad loss
for Michigan because they paidhim like a million dollars to Oh
my gosh, no way.
Yeah, that's happened a coupletimes since.
Northern Illinois beat NotreDame.
That was a big one, too.

SPEAKER_00 (22:53):
But was that recent?

SPEAKER_01 (22:55):
Uh I think two or three years ago, yeah.
There are obviously manyfinishes in sports.
These are the ones that weremember.
Yeah, that just popped up.
You were thinking about theCardinals coming back and
beating the Rangers in the WorldSeries.
I think you were crushed aboutthat one.
David Freeze, they were theywere down to last strike
multiple times in that series,and they came back and won game

(23:16):
six and game seven.

SPEAKER_00 (23:17):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (23:18):
And the Rangers choked that one away.

SPEAKER_00 (23:20):
Well, I also was pretty disappointed in I think
it was 06 when the Maverickswent to the finals.
They played the Heat.

SPEAKER_01 (23:28):
Yeah, and they won the first two games of the
series, and then the Heat cameback and went four straight.

SPEAKER_00 (23:32):
Yeah, and I was able to go to the second game of the
finals, which was a big deal,being, you know, freshman in
college, like that was a verycool experience.
And then I went on a missiontrip to Africa and did not get
to see some of the games, and itwas so disappointing that they
lost the next four straight.

SPEAKER_01 (23:48):
So I remember telling you that the Heat was
gonna win too.

SPEAKER_00 (23:51):
Yeah, we had that discussion.
So apparently the Heat finishedwell, but not Dwayne Wade was a
boss.
Yeah.
So we've also had a couple teamsrecently in college football,
and just the one we were gonnamention as we transition into
the topic of finishing and howyou learn to win.
Like, what is a winner'smentality?
What does that even mean to likelearn to win?
I don't know that we have theanswer, but we're gonna just

(24:13):
talk about it.
Uh so just some teams like AMplaying South Carolina the other
day.
Like they go into halftime,they're down.
Do you remember 30 to three?

SPEAKER_01 (24:22):
30 to three.

SPEAKER_00 (24:23):
And they came back to win 31?
30.

SPEAKER_01 (24:25):
31 to 30.

SPEAKER_00 (24:26):
Yeah.
So I mean, I remember tellingyou when we saw this game
playing out, I was like, thatteam, there's no way.
And I know that I saw SouthCarolina's coach just like a
thing, just a headline that justsaid, like, we didn't think the
game was over.
It's not like, you know, wecame.
But I do think that there, as wetransition into that topic, I do
think I'm not saying this aboutSouth Carolina, just to be

(24:48):
clear.
I'm just saying there is thispoint of think just human nature
where you get comfortable.
Like, I don't, again, not sayingthat about South Carolina.
I know nothing about thatculture, that team, but just
that idea of how do you stayengaged and disciplined when you

(25:09):
know, ca I think that in otherareas of life you can feel that
way.
You're like, well, I'm aheadhere, so I don't have to be as
on top of things.

SPEAKER_01 (25:15):
Yeah.
Well, the great coaches addressthis.
Nick Saban always talks aboutit.
He calls it rat poison.
Um, you know, you think you'redoing good, and it's natural.
Like Kurt Signetti, actuallywith Indiana, has been talking
about this recently.
Okay.
And you think he's like, I'vehad to, I've had to really tick
some people off because youknow, we get we're on the streak
and we're winning.
And everybody, it's natural,right, human nature to not work

(25:38):
as hard as you would if you werein a grind, in a struggle.

SPEAKER_02 (25:42):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (25:42):
And so he has to continue to hold the standard
and in many ways be a jerk, evenin the midst of we're undefeated
and we're doing really well tohold the standard.

SPEAKER_00 (25:53):
Why do you think that is?
I mean, you were a pitcher.
So say you came out there on themound and your team's up nine to
one.
Are you gonna pitch just as hardas you would if it's you're it's
flip-flopped like y'all aredown?

SPEAKER_01 (26:08):
Obviously, I mean you're in a more favorable
situation, so they may the theway you pitch may be a little
different.
Like for me, if I'm up nine toone, I there's no reason to be
careful with anybody.
I'm gonna be filling up thestrike zone and I'm gonna let my
defense work and use that, thoseadvantages for me.
If I'm putting people on baseand hitting guys, um, then I'm

(26:30):
not helping the cause, andthat's not what's working.

SPEAKER_00 (26:32):
Mentally, I guess, as not not so much as much as
like game strategy, butmentally, do you feel like if
you had it might besubconscious, it might not be
like, oh, I'm actively thinkingthis, but would you say it's
like, well, I it's okay if Imake a mistake?

SPEAKER_01 (26:50):
Um yes and no.
I think there's a little more umgrace you can give yourself
because you gotta get back tothe next hitter.
But at the same time, there's alot on the line.
So if I close out the game whenwe're up nine to one and I can
pitch a lot of innings, I'msaving our bullpen.
And if I can put them down andnot give them any more runs,
they have to carry that lack ofmomentum into the next game.

(27:11):
Yeah.
And so I don't want to give thema breath of life at the end and
then they run me out the game.
And even so, so say we win nineto five, that's still not nine
to one.
And so there's always somethingto be grabbed and competed for.
And um, and yeah, and for as apitcher, you want to put a team
away and you want to bury them.
And so you're trained to operatethat way and have that

(27:33):
mentality.
So burying them and so they cancarry that into the next game is
exactly what you want.

SPEAKER_00 (27:38):
Yeah, what do you go into the game?
Like some of these, especiallynon-conference games.
I I think baseball, there seemsto be, anyways, from just an
observation, a lot of parity.
Like there's a lot of goodbaseball programs that might not
even be division one.
So I feel like in baseball, youkind of got to be careful
because these teams can come infor a midweek game or even a

(27:59):
series or whatever, and it'ssneak, they're sneaky.
And so I always am like, man,that we, you know, you gotta be
prepared always in baseball.
But like for these other sports,I mean, what I feel like you
just have to make create astandard mentally and
strategy-wise to play at acertain level, no matter what.
Like, if it is a team thatshould not compete with you, the

(28:21):
scorecard should represent that.
But that's a mentality.
It's not just about winning thegame.
It's like, no, we're winners allthe time, and what's expected is
what is done.
Like if we're SEC and this otherteam is not, then it's expected
that you're gonna have likequite a point spread.
And that's okay.

SPEAKER_01 (28:40):
Yeah, I think there are moments in games, depending
on the sport, where you competeagainst the person and you're
trying to beat the person.
But I also think there isanother type of motivation and
focus where you're competingwith yourself.
And so if those two things areconstantly happening, and I
don't, you know, like there'snot like an on and off switch,

(29:01):
but you're always competing andyou're always trying to push the
standard that you have foryourself no matter what.
And so, um, no matter what thecompetition is, no matter who
you're facing.
And so I I think if that if youcan pitching from that
standpoint, playing from thatstandpoint, you're not gonna
have a drop-off.
Like it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_00 (29:19):
Like But did have you observed, like, does that
happen?
I mean, you've coached too, solike does that happen where
people are more lackadaisicalcoming in in their approach just
because they see, oh, we'replaying so-and-so this week?

SPEAKER_01 (29:33):
Um, yeah, that can happen.
And as a coach, you have toredirect that.
You have to redirect thatbecause it really comes down to
execution.
Doesn't matter who's in that boxthat you're paying against,
playing against, or who's on thefield against you, it comes down
to how you execute.
And so if you execute well, youmost most of the time you're
going to win the game.
But it takes a lot of focus tocontinue to execute well and not

(29:54):
lose track, not lose focus.

SPEAKER_00 (29:56):
Right.
Yeah, I think that one thingthat I've observed is The
ability to stay engaged and do arepeated practi uh repeated
skill in a disciplined way, whocan do that the longest?

SPEAKER_01 (30:09):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (30:09):
You know?
And basically playing as if thatscoreboard's not even up there.
Because I do think that thatkind of can impact for sure the
effort that a team is giving onbeing so disciplined and clean
when they're playing a team.
I mean, you always it's kind ofa phrase you hear that's, you

(30:30):
know, people will say, we gottaplay to our standard or we can't
play down, or you know, and butbecause that's just normally
that can happen when you're, youknow, but so what are those
things that keep you in thatkind of frame of mind?
Like what how did you how do youdo how did you get that?
I mean you you mentioned like inhigh school, you had coaches
that do that.
You mentioned coaches severaltimes, so maybe you had good

(30:52):
coaches, but was that kind ofjust innate in you?
Like this is a standard, and itdoesn't really matter where I am
or what I'm doing, this is justwhat I expect of myself.

SPEAKER_01 (31:02):
Yeah, that's a good question.
I I think a lot of it wascoaching coming up.
I had some great little leaguecoaches, I had a great high
school coach that challenged me.
Um part of it is I was small,uh, I didn't throw the hardest.
So I had to find ways to beatpeople and compete.
And so my m the way I competedis was an advantage for me.

(31:23):
It wasn't the stuff that I had,it wasn't um the ability, it was
more of just I'm going to comeat you and make you beat me, you
know?
And uh so that that's a lot ofit for me.

SPEAKER_00 (31:35):
That was just I think, yeah, and I think that um
an advantage to anybody, whetheryou have a lot of talent or that
you're, you know, is just to bea learner.
If you go up in competition andyou get beat, like what can you
learn from that?
And then what can you cancontrol and go do more?
Can you practice more?
Can you have more attention todetail?

(31:56):
Can you have better routines?

SPEAKER_01 (31:58):
Yeah, what can you clean up?
I think you've got we got to getaway from the results based in a
lot of ways.
Like you could look at it and belike, well, I lost my match, or
this, or like, okay, I got oreven like okay, I just got six
outs, and um, it's I'm goinginto the third inning and I'm
you know been three up, threedown, and buffed those, and I'm
into the third.
Well, what happened in thoseouts?

(32:19):
How well have you executed?
Yeah, did they just miss a pitchthat you threw right down the
middle?
Or did you hang a breaking ballthat they were fortunate that
it's still there and it was justan out?
Like, did you fool them in anyway, or did they just miss?
Are they taking good swings onyou?
And so as you look at thosethings, you're going, okay, I
did get six outs, but I'm veryfortunate that there's no runs.
And so I have to adjust and getback to executing well and not

(32:42):
get caught up in like, oh, I'vejust rolled through this lineup.

SPEAKER_00 (32:45):
Right.
Yeah.
I think that what what you'resaying, those sound like
intangibles to me.
Like when I went to Point GuardCollege, when I was in college,
there was like a whole yeah,there was a whole sheet of
things.
And I wish I had learned itsooner.
But they would give us thispiece of paper with these
categories that were allintangible things.
And it's things you're doing inthe fast break.
It's are you taking dribblesthat are non-productive

(33:07):
dribbles?
You know, things that I justwouldn't think about because if
you just take the common stats,turnovers, shots, field goal
percentage, free throw, threepoint, whatever, assists, like
you're not getting a fullpicture of how you're actually
impacting the game, like whatyou're saying, like all those
little details that actuallyprobably mean more in the grand
scheme of like how the gameturns out.

(33:29):
But again, it's kind of unseenunless you have a coach that's
saying this, if you canaccomplish this, then the points
will take care of itself.
You know, if we get this manypoints in the paint, if we get
this many passes before we um,you know, get a shot.
That's one thing that I see alot in basketball in general.
I'm always like, pass the ball.
Like, because you know, you movethe ball around the court so

(33:52):
much, defense moves, somebody'sgonna eventually be open, you
know?
And so it's just one of thosethings where if you have that
and you know that and you focuson those things instead, then it
can impact.
But that's like a that to me isa discipline because it's not
natural whenever you might haveyou might want, especially in a
game like basketball that's sofast paced that you want to just

(34:13):
do.
Maybe if you came especiallyfrom high school and you were
the best player on the team andyou really had to take the team
on your back, you were the teamand you were having to shoot the
ball, make all the plays for themost part.
Like, it's hard to have thatkind of restraint and play
within systems and stuff likethat, I think.
Um what about like learning tofinish?

(34:35):
I mean, you were in that gamewhen y'all went to Omaha and you
were at the Florida StateRegional, I feel like that's
probably a good game of anexample of like having to
finish.
I don't remember what all thescenarios were, but you and
Aaron Weatherford like tag teamthat game.
Is there anything that whetherit was that game or another that
you've pitched before, that youjust remember what that feels

(34:56):
like to have that pressure andbeing relentless to just, I
mean, be determined to finishand not let this game go, you
know, end in a loss.

SPEAKER_01 (35:07):
Yeah, I I think some of this was formed in high
school.
I can go even go back to youngeryears too.
But I think high school, um, Ijust became known as someone
that had a second wind late inthe game.
So my endings were always betterum than really at the beginning.
And I don't know where that camefrom.
Uh I did run a lot extra, sosometimes that extra running I

(35:31):
think would help me later on.
But I think it's just amentality of like, this is not
over, this is a battle, I haveto bring it, and I've got to
find something deeper in me anduh and go beyond what I think I
can do.
And so I think through somegreat coaching in high school,
and we did some prettyridiculous stuff at times.
Um, you know, the the hardworkouts, the crazy workouts
that you're like, what was thepoint of that?

(35:52):
That one even baseball related.
But it pushes you to a pointwhere you mentally you didn't
think you could go, and thenphysically, of course, you don't
think you could go.
So we had some moments here atstate where we did some of those
workouts, like sled workouts,and you're like, what the heck?
I'm not pushing sleds on abaseball field.
Right.
But it pushes you to a pointwhere you're like, you can give
more.
And so it it increases yourmental capacity in the late

(36:12):
games to go, okay, this is neverover.
Here's the moment.
I'm gonna be 100% locked in onthis, and I'm gonna have my
best.
I gotta have it right away.
And and then you get coaches putyou in situations in practice to
where you've got to have yourstuff right away.
You've got to have this, oryou've got to find a way to make
an adjustment when you don't,and you've got to have it, and
it's gotta happen within thenext pitch or two, or you're

(36:34):
gonna be in trouble.
And so um, I just love thatpressure.
I just I've grew to love thatpressure, but you have to be in
situations where coaches giveyou that.
I also had great coaches thatthat supported me and believed
in me.
Yeah, and so I think that goes along way too.
Like when your coach is beliefis there and then you believe in
it because you've had success inthe past, so you have to rely

(36:56):
and remember on the pastsuccesses, not on the previous
failures.
I have given up somegame-winning home runs that
happens or some big hits, butthere's been times where I've
gotten out of bases loaded ofjams with nobody out and nobody
scored.
And those are the moments that Iremember, and I I love I love
those situations.
So you gotta it's it's uh it'suh it takes a village.

(37:17):
I don't think it's just aone-person deal.
There is gonna have to be anindividual drive in you, but
there are so many other peoplethat are a part of that on the
journey of like learning how tofinish well.

SPEAKER_00 (37:26):
Yeah, I think that also I was thinking about how
whenever you were in college andwe were both, I was playing
basketball, Justin was playingbaseball, and I liked to run.
Like that's where, you know, Iwalked on the basketball team
here.
So that was my like best placeto compete where I felt like I
could really, you know, I don'tknow, challenge whoever was

(37:47):
there.
You know, my skill withbasketball wasn't as good as
some of my teammates.
So I felt it was like an evenplaying field when we went to
run line drills or in the weightroom.
But one of the things that Inoticed about Justin was that,
and something we both had incommon was finishing reps in the
weight room, finishing whateverwe were asked to do, we finished
it.

(38:07):
And I do think there's somethingto that.
Like if you practice notfinishing things, whether that's
in your schoolwork, whetherthat's you've given your word to
a friend, hey, yeah, I'll showup and you ghost people all the
time, or whatever it may be, Imean, that's going to at some
point impact how your brain istrained to transfer and relate

(38:29):
like to this scenario on a courtor a field.
Right?
You think so?

SPEAKER_01 (38:34):
No, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 (38:35):
Like Justin would, he wasn't necessarily required
to run, I don't think, but youwould, I would be training for
something and you would come andrun with me, some mileage, and
you were already gonna do some,but that was something you
learned what it required of you,whether that was something the
coaches told you or not, to getyour body back in a position to

(38:55):
be able to repeat the same thingand do it better the next day.
And you went and you finishedthat.
And I think that's a big deal tome.
I think that's a good practice.
Like, do you finish what youstart in general in anything in
life?

SPEAKER_01 (39:09):
Yeah, you know?
But yeah, I you just don't flipa coin and become a good
finisher.
I I do think it's daily practicehabits.
Yeah.
And I I had people model thatfor me.
I had coaches instill thosethings in me.
Yes, I had to choose to do it,but again, it takes a village.
Like I had some success in somegood moments and some bigger
moments, and then I've alsofailed in those two.

(39:32):
And so how you approach thefailures, um, the coaches that
are speaking life at you giveyou another chance to approach
that failure, the teammates thatbelieve in you.
Um, it's a lot.

SPEAKER_00 (39:42):
And I think that sometimes failure, I know you
you might can share the story oflike facing failure that you've
often shared in devotions andthings like that with teams.
But I think that that is whereyou also you kind of have to
face that in order to learn howto finish.
Because if you don't fail, likeI know that I, you know, in some
of these faster-paced sports, II feel more comfortable about

(40:06):
players being in scenarios thatare high pressured because
there's somebody else that mightcan make a steal in basketball,
but like, or something likethat, or get a deflection and
now you get the ball.
There's just so many things thatcould happen.
But in a sport like baseball, ifa pitcher is just getting blown
up, I'm like, coach, take himout.
This is painful.

(40:26):
But to your point, depending onwhat the game is and what's
going on.
I mean, even in the World Seriesgames, there were some pitchers
that were struggling, butthey're like think, you know,
they're having to manage allthese games and who they're
gonna have.
And so sometimes it's like you,you're just out there and you
gotta figure it out and yougotta make those adjustments.
And that's what's hard sometimesto watch, but also at the same

(40:48):
time, like I don't know how yougrow to ever finish something if
you're not put in thosescenarios.

SPEAKER_01 (40:55):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (40:56):
Like you have to face that failure.
So I know you have a story aboutfacing failure.

SPEAKER_01 (41:00):
Well, there's that, yeah.
And you gotta, you gotta getturned in the fire.
How you approach failure is abig deal.
I think for me, the Lord dealtwith the what is everybody else
gonna think deal.
And that specifically happenedin Alaska when I was playing
summer ball.
I started a game and I didn'tget anybody out.
I went through the whole lineupand I get a single out.
And so the Lord was reallydealing with me on this fear of
failure, specifically with likewhat are my teammates gonna

(41:23):
think?
Because I was one of thedivision one players, so I'm
supposed to be better apparentlythan everybody else.
So I had that expectation.
Um, what are my coaches gonnathink when they see the stat
line for this summer game?
And my ERA is INF, which isinfinity, because I didn't get
it out.
I think so.
I don't I don't know.
That's terrible.
It could be a variety of otherthings, but um, but then I was

(41:45):
thinking of like, well, what'smy host family gonna think?
You know, they're here watchingwhat are all these other people
gonna think, and and it took meaway from just the moment and
what I was there to do, and um,and I was just like, enough's
enough.
Like, I'm not gonna be changedand be different because I had a
bad outing.
I'm tired of being inconsistentbecause I had a bad outing.
Now, because I fail or I don'tget the job done, does that mean

(42:06):
it doesn't bother me and thenI'm just okay with failing?
No, you're gonna hurt it bothersyou, yes, but you don't have to
be a different person when youfail.
You can still be the same personto your friends and go hang out
and do those things and um andbe a supporter of other people.
The best way to do that is toencourage the ones that come
after you on the mound to beyour biggest, your biggest

(42:28):
supporter of your teammates.
Um, it deals with your heart,gets that crap out of there
because it is, and it's it'sreally selfish and it's um
saving face.
It's um yeah, you're just tryingto protect yourself, is really
what it is.
Instead of just going, you knowwhat?
I did it.
It's not what I wanted.
Yeah, just own it.
You gotta own it.
Gosh, just own it.
It wasn't my best day.

(42:50):
Um, I gave my best, um, but itwasn't my best day.
And so finally getting free ofthat was so helpful.
So helpful.
And it really prepared me forthe rest of my career.

SPEAKER_00 (42:59):
And I, you know, I saw a moment where it was pretty
tough for Justin on his seniornight.
So I can attest to him doingthis.
It was very hard as hisgirlfriend to watch this go
down, but they had this um eventfor Coach Polk.
It was Coach Polk's last lastgame, right?

SPEAKER_01 (43:13):
Last game.

SPEAKER_00 (43:14):
So they had a whole like ceremony before the game.

SPEAKER_01 (43:16):
Justin is my last start.

SPEAKER_00 (43:18):
Yeah, it the starter.
So you got you're down theretrying to warm up, and then you
have this ceremony, and then yougot to get back on the it was
just like a weird sequence ofhow all the preparation would be
different because of thisceremony happening.
And remind me, I don't rememberhow that start came out.

SPEAKER_01 (43:35):
I didn't I didn't get out of the second inning.
Yeah.
I struggled through the firstand then gave up like two or
three runs, and I was like, ohboy.
And I didn't, I didn't feelgreat, but I'm like, come on,
find a way.
And I didn't get out of thesecond inning.

SPEAKER_00 (43:46):
So ladies out there's really tough.
Yeah, ladies out there, we'vebeen talking about how what kind
of man to look for.
So I I was crushed for himbecause I mean, to have his last
home game in like that was justa lot.
I was like, no.
So I'm already, you know,emotional.
I try to get myself together.
And then the next inning, whenthey come off the field, I guess

(44:09):
in the second inning, likeJustin was the first person out
of the dugout and you know, cuethe tears for the second time.
So I'm just saying, ladies,that's the kind of man you want.
No one pouting in the corner,but he was, you know, I just
knew the stakes of thesituation.
And so to see Justin come out ofthe dugout like that was super

(44:30):
impressive to me.
And I remember after the gametalking to you, and there were
two seniors who didn't alwaysplay a ton, maybe.
I don't remember.
Maybe they did.
I don't know, because I think itwas Jesse Carver and Yeah, Jesse
came in for me.
And Jesse had or they did play alot, but he they had like
incredible game.

SPEAKER_01 (44:47):
Like that they pitched Jesse had an incredible
finish to his career.

SPEAKER_00 (44:50):
And then John Lawler, I think.

SPEAKER_01 (44:51):
And Lawler pitched at the end, I believe, too.

SPEAKER_00 (44:53):
Yeah.
And so, you know We almost won.

SPEAKER_01 (44:55):
We almost came back and won.
Yeah.
It's kind of weird.

SPEAKER_00 (44:57):
So you look at that game, and obviously you could go
back and learn from it, but alsoyou see where these two guys get
a chance because you didn't golong.

SPEAKER_01 (45:07):
Yeah, and that was good.
On their senior day.
That helped, and that helped aton.
But I also was, you know, in thetunnel, grabbed Andy Wilson and
just cried on his chest for asecond, and then I popped back
out to go help support Jesse.
But um, I mean, it wasdefinitely a moment.
It wasn't I pitched bad and I'mupset.
It was that's it.

SPEAKER_00 (45:24):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (45:25):
Because I knew I wasn't playing beyond that.
So that was it.
Yeah.
For a place that I gave fiveyears of my life, and that was
the last outing.
That was pretty rough.
It was tough.
Um, but thankfully have friendsand thankful my teammates had
great endings to their time.

SPEAKER_00 (45:39):
Yeah.
Man, so I have a few, we don'thave Darius here to give us the
one-liners, but there's I'llI'll try to provide a few.
There's a difference betweenplaying not to lose and playing
to win.

SPEAKER_01 (45:50):
Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 (45:51):
And so I think that the that to me is like if say
you see a team on your schedulethat you should beat, it's like,
okay, we shouldn't lose thisgame.
That's a different mentalitythan we're gonna go play our
game, my game.
It doesn't matter who it couldbe the same opponent and like

(46:12):
you take the same mentality intothe I think that's a playing to
win mentality.
It does not really matter who'son the other side of that
competition.
The I'm I'm gonna play the same.
I'm gonna approach the game thesame.
There's no deviation of that,right?
But I think you they if you ifthat fluctuates, maybe that's
what it means when you're justplaying like not to lose.

SPEAKER_01 (46:32):
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, definitely.
I mean, I I think in baseballit's like, okay, you want to win
two out of three, you want towin the series, especially in
this league.
You wanna and and so you'reyou're saying that and and and
you're probably like, well,wait, you're gonna lose one of
those games, you're not playingthe win.
I think it's definitely amentality to go, it doesn't like
okay, the goal is two out ofthree.

SPEAKER_00 (46:51):
Sure.

SPEAKER_01 (46:51):
But man, I want to win every single game.

SPEAKER_00 (46:53):
Right.
Like it's like you know that onpaper the math works where it's
like if you get this many games,you get in to the tournament, or
you get in, you have goodseating, or whatever like that.
You know the amount of games,but I think it's a personal
responsibility to think, okay,that's great to have that
information, but I'm still gonnaapproach every game like every

(47:14):
game is winnable and that we canbeat our competition.

SPEAKER_01 (47:18):
Yeah.
Well, I don't want to be the oneto lose one of those games, you
know, being a pitcher like I gotone of those the neck that gum
and I want to win mine.

SPEAKER_00 (47:24):
So I also like this thought that losing becomes
data, not discouragement.

SPEAKER_01 (47:30):
Yeah.
Oh shoot, that's good.

SPEAKER_00 (47:32):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (47:32):
It's good.

SPEAKER_00 (47:33):
So you don't have excuses or blame or self-pity,
but you choose to beresponsible, to own whatever
happened, to reflect, to makeadjustments, and then just be
resilient.
Like if I had thought that waywhen I played sports, that
losing like really any stat isdata.
You know, like whether like notto put things in a good and bad

(47:56):
call columns and pit themagainst each other, but just
realize all of this is data forme.
And that can be something whereI'm not feeling like defeated.
There's not I don't know.
I think that that can become amindset too, is like, oh, you
just defeated, a defeatedmindset where it's like we just
can't get anything right.
Like I think it's a choice tojust look at what happened and

(48:18):
then just see what can yousharpen.

SPEAKER_01 (48:21):
Like, for instance, data, you didn't get a call that
you wanted.
It was a strike, but it wascalled a ball.
You could be ticked and go on tothe next pitch still thinking
about how you just struck a guyout, but you didn't get the
call.
And then you throw a next pitchwhich was not executed real
well, and it gets crushed.
All right.
If you focus better, youprobably could have given a
better pitch.
So like you could blame that onthe umpire, or you can blame

(48:43):
that on I didn't have the focusto make a better pitch after
that, or to do it again.
And so um it takes away theumpires, takes away the
referees, it takes awayteammates making an error or
making a bad pass, or whateverthe situation is on the team
support side, and and then youfocus on the data.
How can we get to a place towhere we don't have to rely on

(49:04):
the call?

SPEAKER_00 (49:05):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (49:05):
We could have been in a better place to not rely on
the call.
And so I get it, sometimes it'shard and that happens and it's
unfortunate.
Um, but I don't want to rely onthe call of an umpire to dictate
the game.

SPEAKER_00 (49:16):
So I said this to somebody this morning, and it
was not about sports, but Ithink one thing that I'm
learning in my own life, likementally, is that I have a
choice, like the power of choicethat I can choose to see data as
a benefit to me, or like even ifwe lose, even if I have a

(49:38):
terrible game, I can justapproach it, I can choose to
look at it a certain way.
Yeah.
And so I think that that's wherealso a winner's mentality is
it's not an ignoring ofinformation or not
responsibility.
It's actually the opposite.
It's I'm going to takeresponsibility, I'm gonna engage
with it.
I'm not gonna be afraid toengage with what has just

(50:01):
happened.
I'm not gonna be afraid ofbeing, you know, transparent or
like vulnerable.
Like, no, these were my stats.
This is what really happened,and I'm gonna engage with that
information.

SPEAKER_01 (50:12):
And if you approach it that way, losing will
actually produce confidence.
Okay.
There's a flip because we alwaysthink winning and winning in
moments produces confidence.
Remember what you've done in thepast.
Yes, but if you appropriatelytake the data from losing and
prepare and take what you needto take from losing, it actually

(50:33):
produces confidence for the nexttime you're in that situation.

SPEAKER_00 (50:36):
Yeah.
So we've been talking aboutrelationships.
So maybe that also if you have abad breakup or whatever, it's
like we need some, we need somereflection questions.

SPEAKER_01 (50:47):
Losing in a relationship and being out of it
for three years, and that datathat I learned prepared me for
you.

SPEAKER_00 (50:53):
Yeah.
I mean, I think that that Imean, it just changes how you
approach life and how you letyour brain think either I'm a
winner or I'm a loser.
You know?
I mean, I see another anotherthing.

SPEAKER_01 (51:05):
Which goes back to the cheesy quote, but it's
right, winners win.
Do you believe you're a winner?

SPEAKER_00 (51:09):
Yeah.
But I also see you also see Idon't think that it's a winner's
mentality to be arrogant.

SPEAKER_01 (51:16):
No.

SPEAKER_00 (51:17):
So I think that that is also kind of like some kind
of like faux, faux front foractually fear failure.
Like it's posturing.
Like if you're scared in any wayto look at the data and then
engage with the data from anykind of humble perspective,
maybe that is what a winner'smentality is.
You know?

(51:38):
So if you do win a lot of games,but you will not engage with
what happened what justhappened, and you cannot reflect
and you cannot tolerate that,then I would say you still
probably have some kind of maybehumor failure, right?

SPEAKER_01 (51:52):
Yeah, oh, for sure.
And I think even going on like,oh, if I don't pitch well, I'm
gonna lose my position.
Okay, well, face it, you didn'tpitch well, you did lose it.
So you can you can work hard toget it back or get another
opportunity.
So be ready for the nextopportunity.

SPEAKER_00 (52:06):
And I think I have seen so many reasonable coaches
here, like at Mississippi State.
I see so many that are sowilling to engage with athletes
at a very one, even in teamsports on a very one-on-one
level to to say, if you want toget better, we have all the
resources and we'll help you dothat.

SPEAKER_01 (52:27):
Yeah.
I mean, I could I could sit hereand tell you this the turning
point for me, I would think.
Um this was my red shirt uhfreshman year.
I gave up a walk-off, well, notwalk-off, a home run to Bobby
Filmy to Georgia on the SECweekend and felt awful.

(52:50):
Like we were up and we ended upI gave up the lead and we lost
that game.
And that was a Sunday game.
Two days later, on a Tuesday,maybe a Wednesday game in South
Alabama on the road, okay, CoachMcNichol throws me back in the
game in a pivotal situation.
I end up throwing like threeinnings in relief and get to win

(53:11):
in some really tough situations,but he had enough confidence in
me to throw me right back inthere after that just happened,
and that was a big thing for mebecause it showed he has belief
in me, and that was early in mycareer, and then I came through,
which flipped it and justlearned from the previous
experience.
So it was just like massive uhformation moment for me early in

(53:32):
my career.
In that it's just it takescoaches, it takes great
coaching, and um, and it takessomebody that's willing to work
and face the failure.

SPEAKER_00 (53:41):
Yeah, but also like I was saying, like face the even
in winning.
Like I think that that that'sanother thing.
Now, these are Justin and I haveserved with FCA at Division III,
at Division II, and Division Ischools, and specifically when
when we went to the Universityof Texas to serve with FCA, we
were like, okay, some this thesepeople are different.

SPEAKER_01 (54:05):
I'm here to win a national championship.

SPEAKER_00 (54:07):
And that's a thing too.
The level of just when you go tocertain schools, what the
expectation is, that initiallythat also sets a standard.
Like what the university, whatthe athletic department does,
what they expect from theirteams.
I mean, the tower at UT wasalways lit.
Football, not for so many years.
Vince Young, they were ridingthat one out for a while.

SPEAKER_02 (54:29):
Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (54:29):
But the other sports, I mean, you would they
were constantly winning, whetherthat was at the time Big 12
championships or nationalchampionships.
I mean, the UT Tower was lit.
Um, that's what they just likethe tower, for those who don't
know.
Like when you drive downtown,you'll see it all but a big
dude.
Nice.
Um, so it was just interestingbecause we got to observe the

(54:51):
mentality of those athletes.
Like they already come becausethey were recruited at this
particular school.
I think they already came inwith a mentality, a winner's
mentality.
You know, like you come into aculture where that's just what
they do.
And so you might not have tolike focus so hard on winning
because the people there havefigured out how to demand that

(55:13):
from the strength coaches to theum, you know, the athletic
department, like the departmentheads to everybody.

SPEAKER_01 (55:21):
I mean, it was just programs were established, like
swimming always won.
There were a couple programsthat just always won.
Right.
Volleyball was right up there.
The other ones that werestruggling at the time being
consistent, though, likefootball, baseball.
We saw the pressure just likepummel these guys.

SPEAKER_00 (55:36):
Yeah.
And I think that's really, Imean, we're not trying to like
um fan be fans here of UT oranything, just but our our
experience there made merealize.
I mean, this is pretty like notanything revelatory, but you
know, we had gone from adivision three school, division,
and then they were going todivision two at Mississippi

(55:58):
College, and then we went to UT.
And so I think that's when Ireally consciously had that
thought, like realizing howdifferent, like, yes, these
athletes in all these placeswere super athletic and
talented, but what set theseapart were, yeah, for sure,
their abilities and theirtalent, but that they had
something mentally that otherathletes didn't have at some of

(56:18):
these other levels of school ofcollege athletics.
And that's just intriguing tome.
Was like, that is reallysomebody can be, again, so
gifted, so talented.
But if they're just playing notto lose or if they're
inconsistent, you know, they'renot going to be able to
withstand the type of trainingit takes at a place like that

(56:38):
that does win.
Yeah.
You know?
So, anyways, it was veryinteresting just to watch and to
be part of for the little bit oftime that we're there.
But anyway, I don't know if thishelped anybody with this topic
of what does it mean to learn towin?
I think that as we wrap up thisconversation, if I as as I'm
thinking back through everythingthat we talked about, I think it

(56:59):
might boil down to can youengage with what actually
happened, with the data of whatyou're producing?
Can you do that?
Are you afraid of that?
Um, are you arrogant beyond thelike and thinking I'm too good
for that?
I don't even need to because I'mgood enough because I think that
that's what winners do.
And if you watch The Last Dancewith Michael Jordan, you would

(57:23):
see that I mean, he's a perfectexample.
Or you mentioned Kobe Bryant.
Some of the great athletes ofall time.
Like I think there's a point youcan enjoy winning and like be
excited about winning and notjust be so hungry to win that
it's like you can't evenappreciate or celebrate the fact
that you've accomplished thesegreat things.
But, you know, those are peoplethat they're constantly

(57:45):
learning.
They're constantly gettingbetter at their craft.
So clearly they're not scared ofwhat that data says at the end
of their competition.
You know?
Yeah.
They want to know it so thatthey can hone in on it or even
like honey on what theiropponents are doing.
So they can I mean they're juststudents of the game and student
of their ability and want to getbetter and better and better at

(58:05):
it.

unknown (58:06):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (58:06):
Yeah, I I think it goes back to the quote again.
I know it's been a little silly.
Winners win.
So even when you lose, even whenyou so-called lose, you win.
It all depends on yourperspective.
Like there's things in life andyour day-to-day and just how you
operate, how you see the world,your perspective.
If you have a winningperspective.

SPEAKER_00 (58:29):
Yeah, so let's think about some other areas that
might apply to some of those,especially college students that
might be listening.
So I think that I was justthinking, you know, for seniors
that are graduating and going toa job interview.
Say you go to a job interview,it doesn't maybe it doesn't go
well, or you just don't get thejob.
Like maybe the interview wentfine, but you I mean, most

(58:50):
places probably would give youfeedback, but where there is
feedback available, you shouldask for that.

SPEAKER_01 (58:56):
Totally.

SPEAKER_00 (58:56):
Yeah, like what what parts of my interview?

SPEAKER_01 (58:58):
Why didn't I, you know, and not not being 40, I
feel like uh the one thing.
If I can go back and do it allover again for things, is I
would ask more questions.
I would just ask more questions.

SPEAKER_00 (59:09):
And to know it's not an indictment like that you
should have known or that you'restupid, or it's none of those
things.
It's just literally like if youwere in a sport and you got
filmed and you went in the filmroom and you're like, how can I
get better?
You know?
I think it's just a choice ofhow you see that and approach
that, and you're not scared ofwhat somebody might say, you

(59:32):
know?
And those things, those moments,whether it's in sports or in
life, do expose you.
And it's weird that we kind ofhave this like, oh, I know I'm
exposed because I'm in front ofthese people and I'm answering
questions, but then we like wantto hide at the same time.
It doesn't change what happened.
You did answer these questions acertain way.
You know what I'm saying?
Like it's not like that momentdidn't happen, but it's like we

(59:55):
don't want to revisit it orwhatever, you know?

SPEAKER_02 (59:57):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (59:58):
Or we don't think that we should, and then They
should have hired us becauseblah, blah, blah.
You know, and it's like, no,they probably had reasons why
they didn't do that.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:05):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:05):
Yeah.
Or maybe you've lost jobsbefore, maybe you've lost spots
on your team.
Maybe you failed a class.
Uh, maybe you didn't like agrade that you got.
I mean, there's like all ofthese things, if you have a
learner's mentality, it willdefinitely help um help you a
lot.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:19):
But yes, as Gustin said, we do a lot to r try to
remove the blemishes.
And I don't think they'resupposed to be removed.
They're formative, they matter.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:29):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:30):
Face them.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:30):
And we don't have to be scared.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:32):
No, and you're gonna win.
Right.
You're gonna win.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:35):
I think that's the only way you do win.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:36):
I think so too.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:38):
Is through those.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:39):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:39):
Like if you stay on this other side where you're so
scared of the feedback, you'reso scared of what someone might
tell you that you did.
Good, bad, ugly, whatever, thenyou're not gonna it's it's gonna
be really hard to winconsistently.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:52):
You're gonna live life trying to push a reset
button all the time.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:56):
Oh, let's talk talk about that as we wrap up, just
real quick.
Justin played video games a lotgrowing up, and he would talk
about this.
So share your wisdom with thepod.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:06):
Well, I think we all had uh many of the people in
here.
You had a uh, you know, aspecifically with Madden, you
would create your players andcreate a team and have a
franchise, and you know, there'sa certain uh way you wanted to
beat people, you had a certainamount of stats you wanted to
get for your guys and thosethings, and you don't want to
give up any points.
And so there were times thatthings didn't go my way.
Sometimes I'd be winning by alot, but I didn't get the

(01:01:28):
shutout that I wanted orwhatever.
I would just start over, do itagain, because that was
cheating.
And I would yell at the screen.
This was early days, but it it'seasy though.
I mean, you can do that in life.
You think there's gonna be areset.
Like, oh my freshman year wasn'twhen I wanted reset, I'll go
somewhere else.
Or um uh, you know, I just oryou check out of a season or

(01:01:50):
check out of challenges becauseyou're just trying to like start
over because it's not what youhad thought.
It's not the stats, it's not thebeginning of your career that
you wanted because you wantedthe perfect four-year,
three-year career and beingall-American in all those years,
start every game, right?
All that stuff, like that beingrealistic, considering all the

(01:02:10):
other people involved in thisyeah, um, or you're gonna, you
know, and then yeah, so you justhave unrealistic expectations,
and so um, to just try to push areset, and sometimes you need to
go to a different place, adifferent opportunity.
So there's nothing wrong withthat, but um you just you gotta
face it.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:28):
Yeah.
So there's a few verses, uh, 1Corinthians 9, 24 through 27
says, run in such a way as toget the prize.
Everyone who compete goes intostrict training.
And so I think that that versejust talking about how you run
in such a way as to get theprize.
I think that winners know theirstandard.
They know what is required ofthem, and they don't, at least

(01:02:51):
the ones I see, um, it they justthey don't require it, doesn't
necessarily always requiresomeone else to get them to
their standard.
And I think that if you don'thave a standard for how you
compete or how you we've talkedabout relationships, how you do
relationships, it's just gonnabe really hard to win all the
time, I think.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:09):
Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:10):
It is because it's kind of like yeah, because
you're kind of you're kind oflike the the mark, the target is
moving a lot.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:17):
Yeah.
Well, if your identity is issolid.
If your n identity is not in thethings that happen around you,
but just on who you are and uhwho the Lord says that you are,
then there's stability.
And so from that place ofstability is your starting
point.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:33):
Yeah, and I like this thought too that it's about
becoming who you were created tobe, not just beating someone
else.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:38):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:39):
And so I mean, I think that that's also the point
in all these things.
Like, what how does sportstranslate to life?
Like, why are we so tuned in tosports and why do we care?
And it's like these things arean opportunity.
Yeah, sure, some people mightjust watch it for the thrill of
like victory.
And like we talked aboutfinishes, you get to see these
wild stories unfold.
But really, you get to learntrue like life skills if you'll

(01:04:02):
engage with what's going on inyour sport and the outcomes of
these games in a positive way,like they will be formative
moments for you that you'll endup being that person that's
assigned to a project in yourjob, and you will do it with
excellence and you'll finish itand you'll get promoted and all
the things because you'velearned these skills.

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:21):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:21):
So it's it's an opportunity to become something,
not just to have a win in thecolumn.
Yeah.
You know?

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:29):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:29):
Um, it's not just about beating someone else.
And then another verse, James 1,2 through 4, the testing of your
faith produces perseverance sothat you may be mature and
complete.
You know, it's it's one of thosethings where, again, you kind of
have that boundary line where ifyou're afraid of failure or
you're arrogant, I think thoseare the two things that have
kind of come to the surfacewhere it's like you don't think
that you need this informationor this data because you're

(01:04:52):
either scared of it or you justdon't, you know, again, think
that you need it.
You're gonna be selling yourselfshort because I think it's
through the confrontation oftruth that gets you to this
point where you do becomemature.
So you can stay on that side ofessentially immaturity if you
want, or you can pass throughthat boundary of, oh, this is

(01:05:15):
what really happened, and havesome humility and then learn,
grow.
And that's how you just keepdoing that over and over and
over again.
And then you end up findingyourself like, oh, like being
able to handle situations withpressure really well, as if
there's no pressure on you atall, you know, or finishing
really well.
So do you have any otherthoughts as we wrap up, Justin?

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:34):
No, it's just nobody gets there by themselves.
You have to have people in yourcorner.
You can't just figure it out oneday.
Yeah.
Like there's things that aretaught, yes, but there's also a
lot that is caught.
And so are you around peoplethat you're catching good things
from?
Are they modeling good things?
Um, if you want to, I mean, ittakes great coaching, and that

(01:05:57):
is, yeah, with your sport, butjust in life.
And um, are you puttingyourselves around those types of
people is significant?
So I think we have to realizethat we can't get there by
ourselves.
And so it it takes every singleperson.
So if you're a part of a teamprogram, I mean, you think about
the managers, you think aboutthe trainers, you think about

(01:06:17):
the nutritionists, um, you thinkabout the sports psych, you
think about the other assistantcoaches and all they're doing,
your position coach, um, thestrength coaches.
I love my strength coaches whenI was here.
All those people are producingsomething and giving you a gift
and investing in you.
And so um, for us to go out andthink that we can just do it

(01:06:37):
ourselves is so arrogant, andit's not intended that way.
And so there's gotta be agrounding and a just a I mean,
think about all the coaches thathave poured into you over the
years, all the ones that haveinvested, all those moments, uh
the tears, the highs.
I mean, there's so many thingsthat have gone into this.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:56):
And um so yeah, just yeah, and I think that you know,
I was thinking like I think thatthere's more people for athletes
than opposed.
Like sometimes if you feel likeyou're trying to prove yourself
or you're trying to you do feellike you're in it alone because
you have to be, you have tostand up for yourself or
whatever.
Like, I think that I often kindof think logically like these

(01:07:20):
coaches, these trainers, whoeverit may be, are here because this
is what they want to do withtheir life to help athletes be
successful.
So even if it comes across,maybe maybe it comes across like
maybe they're not for you, butmost likely they are.
Like they're doing this withtheir life, you know, for the

(01:07:42):
very reason of getting these atlike getting you prepared for
what you're about to face, notjust and this is a unique time,
you know, because you're incollege where you are developing
and they're not just preparingyou for what you're gonna face,
say when the SEC comes, likeplay comes, but also for life
beyond college, you know.

(01:08:03):
So I would say there's probablymore people for you than at
times if you feel like there arepeople against you, it's
probably that there's it mightbe a just a perspective shift.
And some of that requires usasking for help and having that
humility to be able to step intothat.
But I do think that's what umjust in observing winners, you

(01:08:24):
know, I I'm going back to my mythoughts about athletes and just
that culture of UT.
Um, I've met a lot of humbleathletes.
I mean, there were some thatwere like chip on their shoulder
for sure, but there were a lotof learners there.

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:38):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:08:39):
That just honed in on their craft and like knew
what it took to get there.
So anyway, hopefully this hasbeen helpful.
We're so glad that we were ableto just talk about this because
we hear this often.
So maybe, like we said earlier,maybe you have some comments on
it and would like to share thosewith us.
So please feel free to do that.
Um, Justin, any parting shotsbefore we hang it up?

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:01):
This came to mind.
Um, just because you may have adifferent personality doesn't
mean that this factors into itas well.
I'm just counting, you know,extroverts.
Oh, yeah, you're gonna talk,you're gonna ask questions and
yada yada.
Um, but intro introverts, thisis for you too.
You don't get an exemption justbecause you don't like being
around people and talking asmuch.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:21):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:21):
Um, we all gotta be learners.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:23):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:24):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:24):
In our own.
All right.
Well, that concludes thisepisode, and we look forward to
our next episode, whatever wemight get into.
Um, but we hope you have a greatweek and thanks for listening.
Thanks for listening to theCreate It To Be Podcast.
To learn more about FCA atMississippi State, visit
www.msdufca.org and follow us onInstagram at Hale StateFCA

(01:09:46):
underscore.
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www.fca.org slash donate to sewinto the work God is doing
through FCA at MississippiState.