Ep. 197 Mel Robbins Says It Takes 200 Hours—Here’s Why Fifteen Seconds Can Ease Midlife Loneliness, Calm Anxiety, and Reduce Stress

Can fifteen brave seconds really be enough to move you out of loneliness in midlife?

You’re not alone—many people feel stuck in midlife loneliness while also battling anxiety and stress.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

1. Why Mel Robbins’ 200-hour friendship rule doesn’t capture the reality of connection in midlife
2. How self-knowledge and social intelligence can make friendship easier and quicker to build
3. Why anxiety—not time—is the real barrier, and how just fifteen seconds of bravery can help you break free from loneliness

🎧 Take 10 minutes to see how one brave choice can ease midlife loneliness, calm anxiety, and reduce stress—you’re worth it.

Send us a text

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About the Host:
MJ Murray Vachon LCSW is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker with more than 48,000 hours of therapy sessions and 31 years of experience teaching her Mental Wellness curriculum, Inner Challenge. Four years ago she overcame her fear of technology to create a podcast that integrated her vast clinical experience and practical wisdom of cultivating mental wellness using the latest information from neuroscience. MJ was Social Worker of the Year in 2011 for Region 2/IN.

Creating Midlife Calm is a podcast designed to guide you through the challenges of midlife, tackling issues like anxiety, low self-esteem, feeling unworthy, procrastination, and isolation, while offering strategies for improving relationships, family support, emotional wellbeing, mental wellness, and parenting, with a focus on mindfulness, stress management, coping skills, and personal growth to stop rumination, overthinking, and increase confidence through self-care, emotional healing, and mental health support.

Episode Transcript

M.J. Murray Vachon LCSW (00:00):
In this episode, you'll discover why
building friendship in midlifecan actually be quicker and
easier than you might think.

MJ Murray Vachon LCSW (00:08):
Welcome to Creating Midlife Calm, the
podcast where you and I tacklestress and anxiety in midlife so
you can stop feeling like crap,feel more present at home, and
thrive at work.
I'm MJ Murray Vachon a LicensedClinical Social Worker with over
50,000 hours of therapy sessionsand 32 years of teaching

(00:29):
practical science-backed mentalwellness.

M.J. Murray Vachon LCSW (00:32):
Welcome to the podcast.
Today I'm taking on the researchthat says it takes 200 hours to
create a close friend, and let'sbe real.
If you're in midlife, wherewould you ever find 200 hours?
In this episode, you'll discoverwhy the so-called 200 hour
friendship rule may not reflectthe reality of midlife.
How your self-knowledge and yoursocial intelligence make

(00:55):
creating friendships easier.
And why The true obstacle tofeeling less lonely and having
more friends isn't time.
It's anxiety.
On Monday's episode, I invitedyou to write down three
communities that you've beenpart of and bravely reach out to
a few people to reconnect.
I hope that exercise sparkssomething in you, maybe a sense

(01:18):
of warmth or even a little ache.
That's because belongingmatters.
But if it also made you feelanxious, welcome to the club.
That's totally normal.
And today we're gonna talk abouthow to step into connection.
Even if you feel anxious aboutit.
Let me begin with a story fromthe couch.

(01:41):
Right after New Year's, Istarted with a new client.
She was struggling withloneliness and isolation.
She told me it was feeding herdepression and even her weight
gain.
She said, I've always hadfriends, but some have moved.
Others are so busy with theirgrandkids and there's no school
activities pulling us togetheranymore, sound familiar.

(02:03):
It reflects what's happeningnationwide.
So many people in midlife arelonely because the structures
that once gave you automaticconnection.
School, church, neighborhoodsstart to fade, then my client
came to a session inmid-February and she was
completely dejected.

(02:23):
She had just listened to MelRobbins podcast on friendship
and said it takes 200 hours tomake a close friend, 200 hours.
I can't even imagine how I'dever get out of this loneliness,
if that's what it takes.
Her words captured what I'veseen so many times in midlife,
the fear that friendship isoutta reach, that the mountain

(02:46):
is just too steep to climb.
I.
And listening to Mel Robbins andthe research that she talked
about on that podcast was nothelpful.
Let me share with you thatresearch out of the University
of Kansas, which suggests ittakes about 50 hours to make a
casual friend, 90 hours to moveinto friendship and 200 hours to

(03:10):
reach close friendship.
Now, this is interestingresearch, but here's where I
completely disagree.
Those numbers may apply tocollege students or young
adults, but in midlife, yourstory is very different.
Why?
By now you know who you are.
You know your values, yourboundaries, And the kinds of

(03:31):
people who bring out your bestas well as the kind of people
who bring out your worst.
I have used a simple exercisewith clients and students
thousands of times to highlightsocial intelligence and
friendship.
I give them index cards withfive words.
Facts.
Interests, opinions, emotions,and values.

(03:55):
In your twenties, you're stillfiguring these out.
But by midlife, you come tofriendship.
Fully baked.
And here's the beauty of thisexercise.
It shows you that friendshipsnaturally exist at different
levels.
some are facts and interestfriendships.
Maybe you play pickleball.
Follow the WNBA together or dovolunteer work.

(04:17):
Those friendships matter, butclose friendships, they're the
ones where you share opinions,emotions, and values.
They're the ones where you areauthentically you.
They're the ones where you feelsafe enough to be your most
authentic self.
One of my students once said,close friends, get the inside

(04:40):
stuff, the invisible, butconnecting parts of us.
So let me ask you think of onecurrent friendship.
Is it mostly facts andinterests, or do you also share
opinions, emotions, and values?
Do you feel authentically youand here's the truth.
In midlife, you don't need 200hours.

(05:02):
Often, you know within a fewconversations if someone's a
good fit.
Last winter I was at the gym andstruck up a conversation with a
complete stranger.
Within minutes, I thought, thiswoman has soul.
She connects deeply.
As I walked away, I thoughtmaybe I should ask her to
coffee.
Immediately another voice pipedup that's weird.

(05:25):
You just met her.
But I realized that was feartalking.
So I paused, took a breath andpushed through.
I asked her, wanna grab coffeeSometime eight months later,
we've shared maybe 35 hourscoffee walks and great
conversation, and I consider hera good friend because we share

(05:47):
facts, interests, opinions,emotions, and values in a mutual
way.
Slowly as we spend timetogether, I can see us sharing
more of our authentic selveswith each other.
Friendship in life isn't builtby default.
It's built by design nine.
So if time isn't the real issue,why does it feel so hard?

(06:12):
It's anxiety.
Anxiety that suggests you'll berejected.
Anxiety says you'll be awkward.
Anxiety says it's safer to staybusy than to risk reaching out,
but once you notice thatanxiety, you can name it, tame
it, and then aim it towardconnection.

(06:34):
My client didn't need 200 hours.
She needed one brave hour.
Well, actually, to get to thatone brave hour, she just needed
20 brave seconds, just like Idid in the gym.
When I pushed through that voicethat said, this is weird, That's
how belonging begins in midlife.

(06:54):
So this is a new way for you tothink about friendship.
When you hear 200 hours, it canfeel overwhelming, like another
impossible task on your alreadytoo long to do list but when you
look at creating new friendswith a midlife perspective, it's
simpler.
Be clear on who you are.
Be clear on what type offriendship you're looking for.

(07:16):
Be brave enough to move throughyour anxiety and be intentional.
Remembering that friendship andmidlife isn't created by
default.
It's created by design.
This combination makesfriendship not only possible,
but often quicker.
Deeper and more meaningful thanyou would expect.

(07:37):
And yes, my client did find herway out of loneliness.
She admitted it.
How brave of her realized.
It was structural, not personal.
How often are you blamingyourself for something that has
nothing to do with you, but thestructural changes that have
occurred with your life?
When you do the update, itreally cuts down on self blame.

(08:01):
My client made a list just likeMonday's Inner Challenge.
And on it was book club from 15years ago.
She tracked down one woman andsent her a text inviting her to
coffee.
She told me I was so nervous,but nervous is better than
lonely and depressed.
The friend immediatelyresponded, and they met that

(08:22):
week.
Both were in transition, bothcraving connection.
Mel Robbins attributes thedifficulty in making friendships
to what she calls the greatscattering.
Yes.
We live in a very transitoryculture, and our family and
friends are scattered all overthe place.

(08:42):
That is real.
But in midlife, when you decideto create new friendships and
step past your comfort zone, youoften will experience a
different kind of scattering newpeople, new communities, and new
opportunities.
Yes, anxiety shows up.
But remember, it's just asensation.

(09:05):
Your body is saying, this isnew, this is uncomfortable.
And in midlife, you can trustyourself.
You can say, I can do hardthings.
I've got this.
So today you've discovered whythe 200 hour friendship rule
doesn't really capture midlife.
How clarity about who you areand what kind of friendship you

(09:26):
want makes connection easier andwhy the real barrier isn't time,
it's anxiety.
if you want my one pager onSocial Intelligence, basically a
visual summary of this episode,send me an email.
MJ at MJ Murray von.com.
And here's the line I want youto remember.

(09:48):
Friendship in midlife isn'tbuilt by default.
It's built by design.
Thanks for listening, and I'llbe back on Monday with more
creating midlife calm.