What if thinking about death could actually teach you how to live with more peace, presence, and perspective?
You don’t have to explore this alone.
In this episode, you’ll discover:
- Why practicing small acts of letting go builds resilience for life’s biggest transitions.
- How the body “knows how to die” and what that means for reducing fear and blame.
- A simple yoga pose that can shift how you approach mortality and daily anxiety adding meaning and clarity to your life.
Take 20 minutes to practice letting go and discover new calm in midlife—you’re worth it.
****
About the Host:
MJ Murray Vachon LCSW is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker with more than 48,000 hours of therapy sessions and 31 years of experience teaching her Mental Wellness curriculum, Inner Challenge. Four years ago she overcame her fear of technology to create a podcast that integrated her vast clinical experience and practical wisdom of cultivating mental wellness using the latest information from neuroscience. MJ was Social Worker of the Year in 2011 for Region 2/IN.
Creating Midlife Calm is a podcast designed to guide you through the challenges of midlife, tackling issues like anxiety, low self-esteem, feeling unworthy, procrastination, and isolation, while offering strategies for improving relationships, family support, emotional wellbeing, mental wellness, and parenting, with a focus on mindfulness, stress management, coping skills, and personal growth to stop rumination, overthinking, and increase confidence through self-care, emotional healing, and mental health support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
MJ Murray Vachon LCSW (00:00):
In this episode, you'll discover how
gently imagining death can easeanxiety and deepen the quality
of your life.
Welcome to Creating MidlifeCalm, the podcast where you and
I tackle stress and anxiety inmidlife so you can stop feeling
like crap, feel more present athome, and thrive at work.
(00:20):
I'm MJ Murray Vachon a LicensedClinical Social Worker with over
50,000 hours of therapy sessionsand 32 years of teaching
practical science-backed mentalwellness.
Welcome to the podcast.
It's Halloween, a season whereour culture brushes up against
images of death, often inplayful or spooky ways.
(00:41):
But today we're continuing ourreal conversation about what
death can teach us about livingfully.
On Monday, I shared part one ofmy talk with my cousin Beth
Kavanaugh, a hospice nurse.
With nearly two decades ofexperience, we explored how
thinking about death can bringmore presence and peace.
(01:02):
Into our daily lives.
In this second part, we godeeper.
You'll hear how practicing smallacts of letting go, that
actually have very little to dowith dying, prepares you for
life's biggest transitions.
Why the body actually knows howto die, something I had never
thought about and how a simpleyoga pose can gently shift how
(01:25):
you think about mortality.
I'm grateful and excited towelcome back, Beth, to continue
our conversation.
Guest (01:34):
Thank you MJ for having me.
I think of all my friends whoare in healthcare.
One thing they say is that.
People really don't understand.
That for many medical conditionsthere, isn't a fix.
From your perspective, how canthe 45 year old, the 58 year old
to 71 year old?
How can they hold?
(01:55):
This in evitable fact that wewill die.
Someday.
How can we do that in normaleveryday life?
You do it because you're ahospice nurse, I did it because
I fell into this class.
And also I'm at an age as atherapist where I am dealing
with.
My client's desk, the loved onesof my client's desk.
how do we sturdy our self forthis inevitable experience?
(02:19):
I was thinking about my dad who never really got on
board with my mom's death.
My mom died when she was 58 andhe and I took care of her.
And he really, he denied it.
He was trying to make her steakand potatoes instead of sitting
at her bedside.
And she really didn't want toeat anything.
Just be with her.
Think a lot of fortitude comesfrom self care practices.
(02:42):
A Inner stability.
for lots of people, it could bemeditation.
It could be prayer.
It could be.
Some type of.
Compassion work.
I do feel like you need someinner fortitude to acknowledge
that death is a reality in ourlife.
M.J. Murray Vachon LCSW (02:58):
Part of what you're saying about your
dad.
Is he couldn't sit.
With the truth.
I'm going to lose my wife at ayoung age.
Guest (03:06):
I think it's easier for.
People that think about otherpeople dying, even though it's
really hard to think about yourmom dying or your kids dying.
We have a lifetime of.
Things that are difficult.
Uncomfortable that come at us.
And I think it might beimportant to look at what you're
avoiding in your daily life, inyour 24 hour life.
(03:28):
Because, people drink to avoid.
People run marathons to avoid.
There's so many ways that weavoid the uncomfortable things
that happen in our lives.
Paying attention to your bodyand what's going on with it.
The reality of death is it isthe most uncomfortable thing to
(03:50):
get on board with.
How do you eat an elephant biteby bite.
So tiny little bites, right?
Have to get onboard with yourdad.
I think you have to.
Oh, I'm having anxiety rightnow.
Oh, this is uncomfortable.
I'm going to feel it in my body.
Why do I have it is because Ifeel left out for my friends or
whatever it is, 54.
I still have those feelings.
(04:11):
Then I'm like, oh, that's weird.
Why?
I have this discomfort and thenI'm okay with it.
After a while.
And then.
It dissipates.
And I'll think, oh, I should dosomething that would make me
feel better about those.
So I'm going to call a friendand be proactive about it.
M.J. Murray Vachon LCSW (04:25):
In my mental wellness terms is tending
and befriending.
That's what the monk was havingme do.
And I went from two seconds andthen I went up to a minute, two
minutes to finally in thecombination of class, we did
this 45 minute meditation.
On our death.
Then it made it.
Okay.
Yeah.
And it also made it humorous.
Because it's really funny.
(04:47):
To avoid something that Icompletely know is going to
happen.
Could be today.
It could be.
I'm lucky, like my mom and livedto be 92.
But it does make a differencebecause every time we don't
blame an unclaim unclaimed isavoiding.
But rather tend to befriend.
I do think we live verydifferently.
Guest (05:06):
It's richer, more depth, I do think that self-awareness.
Is one of the tickets to a gooddeath.
People who are more self awareThere endings.
Are very rich.
Rich with people in their lives,rich with, satisfaction in their
lives.
(05:27):
Maybe a belief in.
Spiritual peace.
That's not for everybody.
M.J. Murray Vachon LCSW (05:32):
Your self-awareness isn't a dive into
self absorption or selfishness.
But when we look atself-awareness through the lens
of someday, I will die.
I think we live very differentlyin those last years.
I'm so happy.
I get to be a therapist at thisage and stage.
Because obviously when I was 35,nobody in their seventies or
(05:53):
eighties would come to me.
Like that just wouldn't be.
Why would somebody who's 80.
See if.
Five-year-old.
But I have a good number ofpeople in the last 10 years that
are in the next stage of theirlife.
I see them.
Really decluttering.
I see them making very consciouschoices I don't want to burden
my children in having to gothrough all of my things.
(06:15):
I'm going to keep fit.
Yeah, because someday someonewill have to move me in a bed.
And I want that to be possible.
And self-awareness as we thinkabout death also is to be
thoughtful to others.
I've had a number of sessionswith children and their parents
about driving.
Of giving up the keys that's aloving thing to do.
(06:37):
But that's also a death.
There's a million deaths beforewe breathe.
Our last breath.
I like to think of, we'repracticing for the big death, by
letting go of things all of theway through.
I actually helped my siblingsclean out my parents' house.
Where nothing had beendiscarded.
That was a gift.
They gave me their death, thatI'm going to do differently for
(06:59):
my children
Guest (06:59):
When people come to our hospice home, they have one
room.
And they come with three shirts.
A pair of slippers.
it's very stark.
When you think about how it allends and.
other stuff is somewhere else.
M.J. Murray Vachon LCSW (07:13):
It's
Guest (07:13):
very bizarre.
M.J. Murray Vachon LCSW (07:14):
To take advantage of those very small
moments in regular life that westep into death.
Most people know someone who'sdying.
But I think there's value inreflecting on how that hits us.
We sit at funerals and thinkabout our own life.
Guest (07:31):
A hundred percent of the time.
Don't you go back home andaren't you like a better human,
I'm going to do this
M.J. Murray Vachon LCSW (07:36):
and to have the guts to stay with that
for awhile.
And not go back to work andpretend that I wasn't at a
funeral, which is an option, tosit in the funeral and reflect
what is this particular funeralsaying to me?
Not just about that person'srole in my life, which I think
is.
Super interesting and helpful.
But what is it saying about thismoment?
(07:57):
In my life.
And how can this make me betterat death?
And then better at life
Guest (08:03):
It's just letting go, right?
When you think about all thethings you have to let go of and
death, and for people have achronic illness, it's a slow.
Letting go of each Activity ofdaily living, all of the sudden
you can't walk as well anymore.
And all of a sudden you can'tbreathe anymore.
And all of a sudden you can'treally feed yourself anymore.
I think every day, if youpractice letting go of
(08:25):
something, maybe it's anger.
Maybe it's letting go of.
A dollar that you have in yourwallet and giving it to somebody
else, maybe it's Letting go ofan idea you have, and you really
want to carry through and nobodyelse wants to get on board with
you letting it go.
We
M.J. Murray Vachon LC (08:40):
Practice.
That if you think about someonewho's a really good singer, they
do a million vocal exercises, tobe able to sing that song.
Effortless beautifully.
And so people who die well, theyprobably have practice letting
go.
Many times.
Our daily life.
If we're open to, it gives usthe chance to do that.
You said something in the classyesterday, that was really
(09:02):
helpful to me as a therapist.
I always have clients who's gotpeople dying in their life.
And often people use hospice anda very common thing that people
say in my office.
Is, I feel like hospice killedthem you explained to the class.
Why people don't want to eat.
Guest (09:23):
When people are dying, they lose their appetite and
ability to swallow.
And it happens over time, but ithappens to almost everybody who
is on a death trajectory at somepoint that cannot swallow food
or fluids safely.
And so you slowly ease them intoyogurt and maybe thickened
(09:44):
liquid, and then maybe just dropsome water on the tongue.
And, you progressively help themthrough this stage.
That's really hard for familybecause family will want to feed
grandma, even though she'schoking, coughing can swallow.
Then they're afraid mom's goingto die from starvation.
She's starting from starvation.
I'm like, no.
This is part of the dyingprocess.
She's not dying from starvation.
(10:06):
Her diminished appetite is anatural response to the dying
process.
Our body knows how to do death.
And we have to, at some point,trust it along the way and help.
Hospice is hopefully there too.
Educate along the way about thefact that, grandma can't eat or
drink anymore because this ispart of the dying process.
(10:27):
Our body knows how to do thistime process.
And that's why we havediminished appetite.
M.J. Murray Vachon LCSW (10:33):
Wow.
That's so powerful to me.
Because we have medicalized thedying process.
And some of that is reallyimportant because of pain
control.
But part of all the advancementsin medicine.
Is this idea.
That somehow death can beavoided.
And I have never even thought.
(10:54):
Until you said it in classyesterday.
That the body knows how to die.
Guest (10:59):
Yeah.
M.J. Murray Vachon LCSW (10:59):
It's the same as the body knows how
to give birth.
But for lots of reasons, somegood, some I'm not sure.
They're good.
We've really medicalized thechildbirth process.
Some of that saves lives forsure.
But some of that, doesn't letthe body do what it's designed
to do.
And then as humans, we end uptrying to impose control.
(11:23):
Instead of having this innerpeace.
The body knows how to do this.
It doesn't mean we don't useresources.
I've never thought of it thatway until you just said this and
how often I've been.
In sessions with people wherethey are trying to impose
control.
And when it doesn't work out,they're often blaming
themselves.
Or they're blaming the doctor,right?
(11:45):
Instead of having thisexperience of this as a normal
part of life, this is a normalprocess.
The body knows how to do this.
How do we tend to befriend?
Guest (11:54):
For every.
Thousand deaths.
There are a thousand variations.
And.
Most of those people die thesame way.
There really is a dying processthat happens for many people.
Yeah, our body does know how todie.
And I like the idea of creatingspace.
That's why I love being in ahospice facility.
Because they have 24 7 remindersthat this is a normal part of
(12:18):
the dying process and it's okay.
M.J. Murray Vachon LCSW (12:20):
We used hospice for my dad and they were
incredibly helpful.
Left to our own devices.
I just don't think he would havehad the beautiful, peaceful
death, that he was able to haveThere was one part in the
weekend that was reallydifficult.
He really want to die at home.
And I was like, this is too muchfor us.
(12:40):
We need to move him into afacility.
And the hospice nurse justlooked me straight in the face
and said, You need to getstronger.
I laughed and my mother wasthere and she goes, I don't
think anyone's ever said that toyou.
I think I was just so afraid.
This was out of my wheelhousefor sure.
And out of everybody else'sright.
But it wasn't out of hers.
(13:01):
She had one of those live strongbracelets on and I said I need
one of those.
With their guidance and theireducation, though, I kept asking
how much longer they would nevertell us.
We knew it was within days, butI was looking for the hour in
the minute.
In closing, is there anythingthat you think for the listener
that.
Might be helpful for them.
In trying to think about death.
Guest (13:24):
I think that is one way you could literally do it is lie
down, corpse pose.
Everybody's doing that, right?
Poses for real.
That's why it was created toimagine your death you could do
it in yoga.
You could lay down in bed, but Ido think taking, even five
minutes or I'm going to startsmall.
And just imagining your death orimagining what it would be like
on your death bed.
M.J. Murray Vachon LCSW (13:45):
Have you ever been in a yoga class
where they've done corpse poseand said, imagine your death?
No, I haven't either.
I've probably done corpse pose.
10,000 times.
Until you said it.
I never even connected it todeath.
I'm thinking of some pleasantnature.
That's mind blowing.
Guest (14:00):
Yeah.
So lots of people do yogaprobably.
So that's a good place to start.
M.J. Murray Vachon LCSW (14:05):
For some people who have a brain
that leans towards OCD.
They think a lot about death.
And that's very yeah, that'svery problematic.
I've played around a lot withall this.
With certain people and theyhave really.
Come to tend to befriend it.
They're natural reaction is forsome reason, their brain thinks
(14:26):
about death more.
And then they have a lot ofpanic around.
And when they just see this as ahelpful thought.
And they don't panic and avoid,which is what they want to do.
But just sink into it.
And let it pass through theirmind.
They tend to befriend it.
Then it just goes, yeah.
It is like corpse posts.
(14:48):
It's so obvious.
But it's also an intrusivethought.
That's really connected toreality.
Guest (14:53):
I think we are placed on this planet for an unknown
amount of time.
It could be two.
Yes, it could be 82 years.
We don't know.
And so I think just sinking intothat, I don't think it's all
about going out and going toHawaii and buying as many things
as you can.
I think it's about really beingwith that.
Reality that This is an unknowntimeline.
(15:16):
And so lying down and having apractice that's uncomfortable.
Start there
MJ Murray Vachon LCSW (15:21):
Okay.
For a minute, we'll each imagineour own death, and then we'll
share with our listeners whatwent through our minds.
Guest (15:28):
I imagine being under a maple tree and backyard.
And a really comfortable.
Like a Tempur-Pedic mattress.
Super comfy warm, like softblankets around me, my family
around me, but not talking atme.
I didn't want any BS.
I didn't want to be like,everything's okay.
I just wanted like quiet andlike supportive.
(15:50):
Loving presence.
And then I imagine there's thischoir called the threshold
choir.
And they sing beautiful songswhen people are transitioning.
And I thought about them.
There.
M.J. Murray Vachon LCSW (16:02):
That's a really good one.
Guest (16:03):
Yeah.
M.J. Murray Vachon LCSW (16:04):
I'm going to up my game, go to that.
What I have in my sleep numberbed.
And my kids, my daughter-in-law.
And my daughter who I'm reallyclose to can handle it.
Guest (16:15):
Oh, yeah.
M.J. Murray Vachon LCSW (16:17):
And so she's.
Like facilitating the process.
Guest (16:22):
Yeah.
M.J. Murray Vachon LCSW (16:22):
And it's good.
Guest (16:23):
Yeah.
M.J. Murray Vachon LCSW (16:24):
So in many ways it looked like my
parents' death.
Guest (16:26):
Oh, because both of my
M.J. Murray Vachon LCSW (16:27):
parents had these really beautiful desks
with all their children aroundthem.
And those are the deathexperiences that.
Are imprinted in my heart and Ijust translate them into my
brain.
Guest (16:39):
Yeah,
M.J. Murray Vachon LCSW (16:40):
Which actually surprises me that when
we took that minute to thinkabout our death, that's what
came to my mind and it's kind ofcomforting because I can see how
far I've come in the last 10years just reflecting on this
really difficult subject.
Beth, I wanna thank you for.
Being with us these last twoepisodes, and for sharing with
(17:01):
us your wisdom.
How often families andindividuals misunderstand the
natural changes that happen atthe end of life and how trusting
the body's wisdom can ease fearand reduce blame, i'm grateful
that we were able to explorejust the idea of practicing
daily, letting go, whether ofthings control or even small
(17:23):
irritation, and how thatpractice can strengthen us for
the larger letting go that areinevitable in life.
And of course, when death comes,we also reflected on how
self-awareness and honestconversations create a more
peaceful path, not only forourselves, but also for those we
love.
By sitting with the reality thatour time is limited, we can free
(17:47):
ourselves to live more lightly,more lovingly, and more fully,
not just in midlife, but untilthe end of our life.
I do want to say to ourlisteners if reflecting on death
feels too overwhelming to do onyour own, or if thoughts about
death show up in an intrusive ordistressing way, please don't
(18:08):
hesitate to reach out to askilled professional for
support.
I wanna end these two episodeswith a gentle Inner Challenge.
Just give yourself one minute toimagine your own death in a way
that feels safe and supportiveto you.
Picture where you're at, who wasaround you, and a sense of peace
(18:28):
you would want to carry intothat moment.
Notice what rises up.
Not to frighten yourself, but topractice befriending the truth.
If this exercise feelsworthwhile, but too overwhelming
to do on your own, know thatreaching out to a therapist, a
religious advisor, or anothertrusted professional or friend
(18:50):
can provide a safe space toexplore it even a single minute,
or as I learned.
Two seconds of reflection canhelp you live today with greater
calm, depth and clarity.
Thanks for listening, and I'llbe back on Monday with more
creating midlife calm.
In this episode, you'll discover how
gently imagining death can easeanxiety and deepen the quality
of your life.
Welcome to Creating MidlifeCalm, the podcast where you and
I tackle stress and anxiety inmidlife so you can stop feeling
like crap, feel more present athome, and thrive at work.
(00:20):
I'm MJ Murray Vachon a LicensedClinical Social Worker with over
50,000 hours of therapy sessionsand 32 years of teaching
practical science-backed mentalwellness.
Welcome to the podcast.
It's Halloween, a season whereour culture brushes up against
images of death, often inplayful or spooky ways.
(00:41):
But today we're continuing ourreal conversation about what
death can teach us about livingfully.
On Monday, I shared part one ofmy talk with my cousin Beth
Kavanaugh, a hospice nurse.
With nearly two decades ofexperience, we explored how
thinking about death can bringmore presence and peace.
(01:02):
Into our daily lives.
In this second part, we godeeper.
You'll hear how practicing smallacts of letting go, that
actually have very little to dowith dying, prepares you for
life's biggest transitions.
Why the body actually knows howto die, something I had never
thought about and how a simpleyoga pose can gently shift how
(01:25):
you think about mortality.
I'm grateful and excited towelcome back, Beth, to continue
our conversation.
Guest (01:34):
Thank you MJ for having me.
I think of all my friends whoare in healthcare.
One thing they say is that.
People really don't understand.
That for many medical conditionsthere, isn't a fix.
From your perspective, how canthe 45 year old, the 58 year old
to 71 year old?
How can they hold?
(01:55):
This in evitable fact that wewill die.
Someday.
How can we do that in normaleveryday life?
You do it because you're ahospice nurse, I did it because
I fell into this class.
And also I'm at an age as atherapist where I am dealing
with.
My client's desk, the loved onesof my client's desk.
how do we sturdy our self forthis inevitable experience?
(02:19):
I was thinking about my dad who never really got on
board with my mom's death.
My mom died when she was 58 andhe and I took care of her.
And he really, he denied it.
He was trying to make her steakand potatoes instead of sitting
at her bedside.
And she really didn't want toeat anything.
Just be with her.
Think a lot of fortitude comesfrom self care practices.
(02:42):
A Inner stability.
for lots of people, it could bemeditation.
It could be prayer.
It could be.
Some type of.
Compassion work.
I do feel like you need someinner fortitude to acknowledge
that death is a reality in ourlife.
M.J. Murray Vachon LCSW (02:58):
Part of what you're saying about your
dad.
Is he couldn't sit.
With the truth.
I'm going to lose my wife at ayoung age.
Guest (03:06):
I think it's easier for.
People that think about otherpeople dying, even though it's
really hard to think about yourmom dying or your kids dying.
We have a lifetime of.
Things that are difficult.
Uncomfortable that come at us.
And I think it might beimportant to look at what you're
avoiding in your daily life, inyour 24 hour life.
(03:28):
Because, people drink to avoid.
People run marathons to avoid.
There's so many ways that weavoid the uncomfortable things
that happen in our lives.
Paying attention to your bodyand what's going on with it.
The reality of death is it isthe most uncomfortable thing to
(03:50):
get on board with.
How do you eat an elephant biteby bite.
So tiny little bites, right?
Have to get onboard with yourdad.
I think you have to.
Oh, I'm having anxiety rightnow.
Oh, this is uncomfortable.
I'm going to feel it in my body.
Why do I have it is because Ifeel left out for my friends or
whatever it is, 54.
I still have those feelings.
(04:11):
Then I'm like, oh, that's weird.
Why?
I have this discomfort and thenI'm okay with it.
After a while.
And then.
It dissipates.
And I'll think, oh, I should dosomething that would make me
feel better about those.
So I'm going to call a friendand be proactive about it.
M.J. Murray Vachon LCSW (04:25):
In my mental wellness terms is tending
and befriending.
That's what the monk was havingme do.
And I went from two seconds andthen I went up to a minute, two
minutes to finally in thecombination of class, we did
this 45 minute meditation.
On our death.
Then it made it.
Okay.
Yeah.
And it also made it humorous.
Because it's really funny.
(04:47):
To avoid something that Icompletely know is going to
happen.
Could be today.
It could be.
I'm lucky, like my mom and livedto be 92.
But it does make a differencebecause every time we don't
blame an unclaim unclaimed isavoiding.
But rather tend to befriend.
I do think we live verydifferently.
Guest (05:06):
It's richer, more depth, I do think that self-awareness.
Is one of the tickets to a gooddeath.
People who are more self awareThere endings.
Are very rich.
Rich with people in their lives,rich with, satisfaction in their
lives.
(05:27):
Maybe a belief in.
Spiritual peace.
That's not for everybody.
M.J. Murray Vachon LCSW (05:32):
Your self-awareness isn't a dive into
self absorption or selfishness.
But when we look atself-awareness through the lens
of someday, I will die.
I think we live very differentlyin those last years.
I'm so happy.
I get to be a therapist at thisage and stage.
Because obviously when I was 35,nobody in their seventies or
(05:53):
eighties would come to me.
Like that just wouldn't be.
Why would somebody who's 80.
See if.
Five-year-old.
But I have a good number ofpeople in the last 10 years that
are in the next stage of theirlife.
I see them.
Really decluttering.
I see them making very consciouschoices I don't want to burden
my children in having to gothrough all of my things.
(06:15):
I'm going to keep fit.
Yeah, because someday someonewill have to move me in a bed.
And I want that to be possible.
And self-awareness as we thinkabout death also is to be
thoughtful to others.
I've had a number of sessionswith children and their parents
about driving.
Of giving up the keys that's aloving thing to do.
(06:37):
But that's also a death.
There's a million deaths beforewe breathe.
Our last breath.
I like to think of, we'repracticing for the big death, by
letting go of things all of theway through.
I actually helped my siblingsclean out my parents' house.
Where nothing had beendiscarded.
That was a gift.
They gave me their death, thatI'm going to do differently for
(06:59):
my children
Guest (06:59):
When people come to our hospice home, they have one
room.
And they come with three shirts.
A pair of slippers.
it's very stark.
When you think about how it allends and.
other stuff is somewhere else.
M.J. Murray Vachon LCSW (07:13):
It's
Guest (07:13):
very bizarre.
M.J. Murray Vachon LCSW (07:14):
To take advantage of those very small
moments in regular life that westep into death.
Most people know someone who'sdying.
But I think there's value inreflecting on how that hits us.
We sit at funerals and thinkabout our own life.
Guest (07:31):
A hundred percent of the time.
Don't you go back home andaren't you like a better human,
I'm going to do this
M.J. Murray Vachon LCSW (07:36):
and to have the guts to stay with that
for awhile.
And not go back to work andpretend that I wasn't at a
funeral, which is an option, tosit in the funeral and reflect
what is this particular funeralsaying to me?
Not just about that person'srole in my life, which I think
is.
Super interesting and helpful.
But what is it saying about thismoment?
(07:57):
In my life.
And how can this make me betterat death?
And then better at life
Guest (08:03):
It's just letting go, right?
When you think about all thethings you have to let go of and
death, and for people have achronic illness, it's a slow.
Letting go of each Activity ofdaily living, all of the sudden
you can't walk as well anymore.
And all of a sudden you can'tbreathe anymore.
And all of a sudden you can'treally feed yourself anymore.
I think every day, if youpractice letting go of
(08:25):
something, maybe it's anger.
Maybe it's letting go of.
A dollar that you have in yourwallet and giving it to somebody
else, maybe it's Letting go ofan idea you have, and you really
want to carry through and nobodyelse wants to get on board with
you letting it go.
We
M.J. Murray Vachon LC (08:40):
Practice.
That if you think about someonewho's a really good singer, they
do a million vocal exercises, tobe able to sing that song.
Effortless beautifully.
And so people who die well, theyprobably have practice letting
go.
Many times.
Our daily life.
If we're open to, it gives usthe chance to do that.
You said something in the classyesterday, that was really
(09:02):
helpful to me as a therapist.
I always have clients who's gotpeople dying in their life.
And often people use hospice anda very common thing that people
say in my office.
Is, I feel like hospice killedthem you explained to the class.
Why people don't want to eat.
Guest (09:23):
When people are dying, they lose their appetite and
ability to swallow.
And it happens over time, but ithappens to almost everybody who
is on a death trajectory at somepoint that cannot swallow food
or fluids safely.
And so you slowly ease them intoyogurt and maybe thickened
(09:44):
liquid, and then maybe just dropsome water on the tongue.
And, you progressively help themthrough this stage.
That's really hard for familybecause family will want to feed
grandma, even though she'schoking, coughing can swallow.
Then they're afraid mom's goingto die from starvation.
She's starting from starvation.
I'm like, no.
This is part of the dyingprocess.
She's not dying from starvation.
(10:06):
Her diminished appetite is anatural response to the dying
process.
Our body knows how to do death.
And we have to, at some point,trust it along the way and help.
Hospice is hopefully there too.
Educate along the way about thefact that, grandma can't eat or
drink anymore because this ispart of the dying process.
(10:27):
Our body knows how to do thistime process.
And that's why we havediminished appetite.
M.J. Murray Vachon LCSW (10:33):
Wow.
That's so powerful to me.
Because we have medicalized thedying process.
And some of that is reallyimportant because of pain
control.
But part of all the advancementsin medicine.
Is this idea.
That somehow death can beavoided.
And I have never even thought.
(10:54):
Until you said it in classyesterday.
That the body knows how to die.
Guest (10:59):
Yeah.
M.J. Murray Vachon LCSW (10:59):
It's the same as the body knows how
to give birth.
But for lots of reasons, somegood, some I'm not sure.
They're good.
We've really medicalized thechildbirth process.
Some of that saves lives forsure.
But some of that, doesn't letthe body do what it's designed
to do.
And then as humans, we end uptrying to impose control.
(11:23):
Instead of having this innerpeace.
The body knows how to do this.
It doesn't mean we don't useresources.
I've never thought of it thatway until you just said this and
how often I've been.
In sessions with people wherethey are trying to impose
control.
And when it doesn't work out,they're often blaming
themselves.
Or they're blaming the doctor,right?
(11:45):
Instead of having thisexperience of this as a normal
part of life, this is a normalprocess.
The body knows how to do this.
How do we tend to befriend?
Guest (11:54):
For every.
Thousand deaths.
There are a thousand variations.
And.
Most of those people die thesame way.
There really is a dying processthat happens for many people.
Yeah, our body does know how todie.
And I like the idea of creatingspace.
That's why I love being in ahospice facility.
Because they have 24 7 remindersthat this is a normal part of
(12:18):
the dying process and it's okay.
M.J. Murray Vachon LCSW (12:20):
We used hospice for my dad and they were
incredibly helpful.
Left to our own devices.
I just don't think he would havehad the beautiful, peaceful
death, that he was able to haveThere was one part in the
weekend that was reallydifficult.
He really want to die at home.
And I was like, this is too muchfor us.
(12:40):
We need to move him into afacility.
And the hospice nurse justlooked me straight in the face
and said, You need to getstronger.
I laughed and my mother wasthere and she goes, I don't
think anyone's ever said that toyou.
I think I was just so afraid.
This was out of my wheelhousefor sure.
And out of everybody else'sright.
But it wasn't out of hers.
(13:01):
She had one of those live strongbracelets on and I said I need
one of those.
With their guidance and theireducation, though, I kept asking
how much longer they would nevertell us.
We knew it was within days, butI was looking for the hour in
the minute.
In closing, is there anythingthat you think for the listener
that.
Might be helpful for them.
In trying to think about death.
Guest (13:24):
I think that is one way you could literally do it is lie
down, corpse pose.
Everybody's doing that, right?
Poses for real.
That's why it was created toimagine your death you could do
it in yoga.
You could lay down in bed, but Ido think taking, even five
minutes or I'm going to startsmall.
And just imagining your death orimagining what it would be like
on your death bed.
M.J. Murray Vachon LCSW (13:45):
Have you ever been in a yoga class
where they've done corpse poseand said, imagine your death?
No, I haven't either.
I've probably done corpse pose.
10,000 times.
Until you said it.
I never even connected it todeath.
I'm thinking of some pleasantnature.
That's mind blowing.
Guest (14:00):
Yeah.
So lots of people do yogaprobably.
So that's a good place to start.
M.J. Murray Vachon LCSW (14:05):
For some people who have a brain
that leans towards OCD.
They think a lot about death.
And that's very yeah, that'svery problematic.
I've played around a lot withall this.
With certain people and theyhave really.
Come to tend to befriend it.
They're natural reaction is forsome reason, their brain thinks
(14:26):
about death more.
And then they have a lot ofpanic around.
And when they just see this as ahelpful thought.
And they don't panic and avoid,which is what they want to do.
But just sink into it.
And let it pass through theirmind.
They tend to befriend it.
Then it just goes, yeah.
It is like corpse posts.
(14:48):
It's so obvious.
But it's also an intrusivethought.
That's really connected toreality.
Guest (14:53):
I think we are placed on this planet for an unknown
amount of time.
It could be two.
Yes, it could be 82 years.
We don't know.
And so I think just sinking intothat, I don't think it's all
about going out and going toHawaii and buying as many things
as you can.
I think it's about really beingwith that.
Reality that This is an unknowntimeline.
(15:16):
And so lying down and having apractice that's uncomfortable.
Start there
MJ Murray Vachon LCSW (15:21):
Okay.
For a minute, we'll each imagineour own death, and then we'll
share with our listeners whatwent through our minds.
Guest (15:28):
I imagine being under a maple tree and backyard.
And a really comfortable.
Like a Tempur-Pedic mattress.
Super comfy warm, like softblankets around me, my family
around me, but not talking atme.
I didn't want any BS.
I didn't want to be like,everything's okay.
I just wanted like quiet andlike supportive.
(15:50):
Loving presence.
And then I imagine there's thischoir called the threshold
choir.
And they sing beautiful songswhen people are transitioning.
And I thought about them.
There.
M.J. Murray Vachon LCSW (16:02):
That's a really good one.
Guest (16:03):
Yeah.
M.J. Murray Vachon LCSW (16:04):
I'm going to up my game, go to that.
What I have in my sleep numberbed.
And my kids, my daughter-in-law.
And my daughter who I'm reallyclose to can handle it.
Guest (16:15):
Oh, yeah.
M.J. Murray Vachon LCSW (16:17):
And so she's.
Like facilitating the process.
Guest (16:22):
Yeah.
M.J. Murray Vachon LCSW (16:22):
And it's good.
Guest (16:23):
Yeah.
M.J. Murray Vachon LCSW (16:24):
So in many ways it looked like my
parents' death.
Guest (16:26):
Oh, because both of my
M.J. Murray Vachon LCSW (16:27):
parents had these really beautiful desks
with all their children aroundthem.
And those are the deathexperiences that.
Are imprinted in my heart and Ijust translate them into my
brain.
Guest (16:39):
Yeah,
M.J. Murray Vachon LCSW (16:40):
Which actually surprises me that when
we took that minute to thinkabout our death, that's what
came to my mind and it's kind ofcomforting because I can see how
far I've come in the last 10years just reflecting on this
really difficult subject.
Beth, I wanna thank you for.
Being with us these last twoepisodes, and for sharing with
(17:01):
us your wisdom.
How often families andindividuals misunderstand the
natural changes that happen atthe end of life and how trusting
the body's wisdom can ease fearand reduce blame, i'm grateful
that we were able to explorejust the idea of practicing
daily, letting go, whether ofthings control or even small
(17:23):
irritation, and how thatpractice can strengthen us for
the larger letting go that areinevitable in life.
And of course, when death comes,we also reflected on how
self-awareness and honestconversations create a more
peaceful path, not only forourselves, but also for those we
love.
By sitting with the reality thatour time is limited, we can free
(17:47):
ourselves to live more lightly,more lovingly, and more fully,
not just in midlife, but untilthe end of our life.
I do want to say to ourlisteners if reflecting on death
feels too overwhelming to do onyour own, or if thoughts about
death show up in an intrusive ordistressing way, please don't
(18:08):
hesitate to reach out to askilled professional for
support.
I wanna end these two episodeswith a gentle Inner Challenge.
Just give yourself one minute toimagine your own death in a way
that feels safe and supportiveto you.
Picture where you're at, who wasaround you, and a sense of peace
(18:28):
you would want to carry intothat moment.
Notice what rises up.
Not to frighten yourself, but topractice befriending the truth.
If this exercise feelsworthwhile, but too overwhelming
to do on your own, know thatreaching out to a therapist, a
religious advisor, or anothertrusted professional or friend
(18:50):
can provide a safe space toexplore it even a single minute,
or as I learned.
Two seconds of reflection canhelp you live today with greater
calm, depth and clarity.
Thanks for listening, and I'llbe back on Monday with more
creating midlife calm.
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