281. From Graffiti Nights to Gallery Walls: Creativity and Purpose With Shen Shen 210

Episode Transcript
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(00:03):
Welcome to the Creative Chats podcast with Mike Brennan.
Hey, friends. Welcome to another episode of Creative Chats. I'm your host,
Mike Brennan. You can connect with me over my website, which is
mikebrennan.me. I would love to get to know you
better and help you with your creativity. This podcast

(00:27):
is for artists, makers, and content creators where we talk about
creativity, the creative process, and story. And it's
always my pleasure and privilege to come
along side of people like you who are looking to engage with your
creativity, perhaps on even a deeper level. Maybe you have hung
it up and you haven't touched anything creatively in a long time.

(00:49):
You're looking to come back, but you're not even sure how to engage again. Or
perhaps you've been at it a really long time, and you just need some community.
You need some encouragement because this road gets
lonely, and it gets hard. And there are so many internal
and external voices that can discourage us. And so my hope is that
this podcast can be an encouragement to you in whatever it is

(01:11):
that you do creatively. And I love
to help people with their creativity so much so that I say
I I really love to come alongside and help you transform your approach to
creativity so that it's fun, it's actionable,
and it becomes essential to everyday life that you cannot
wait to create. Because I believe when you create,

(01:34):
we all win. Now today, I get to sit down with
a local friend, my friend Shen, and she
is just an amazing artist. She's an amazing person, and I've loved
getting to know her, continuing to get to know her, seeing her at events,
getting together with her, and, it's just been amazing. And
so I was glad to be able to bring that new

(01:56):
friendship that I have locally here in Nashville to you on
this podcast because her work is amazing and her story is
amazing. And Shen has roots in graffiti
art back in the eighties, in California and we talk a little
bit about that and about her journey, how it developed, how it evolved and
changed over the years. And, just fair

(02:18):
warning on a couple of things. One, she shares some pretty personal
things, and some some things that were kind of traumatic and so
just wanna give you a little heads up, in case you're more sensitive to some
things. I don't want anything to be a trigger for you. And, the
other is that she shares, her faith journey, with this
as well because it's very much tied to why she does what she

(02:40):
does. And on this podcast, I always encourage people,
guests, to come as they are, to show up as
themselves authentically and be free to talk about whatever
their experiences are, whatever is important to them. And so we do that today.
And, I don't talk about that too much on the podcast here either,
but, my beliefs are are at the foundation of who I am

(03:02):
and what I do. And so we we share a little bit more
in-depth on that. And if you're not a person of faith, I would encourage
you to not let that context
have you hit the the skip button. Lean into this and
listen because we can all learn from each other, regardless
of differences, regardless of similarities. We we can learn from each

(03:25):
other if we're willing to be curious, if we're open,
and we're we're looking for that through line. That thing that goes, oh,
their context may be different than mine, but I can take that truth. I can
take that bit of wisdom and apply it to my own life and my own
context. And so, Shen is, again,
amazing artist. I mean, she she has a client base that that

(03:46):
includes like Clint Eastwood, Ritz Carlton Hotels. I
mean, she shares later on where her work can be found, in
some shows that are upcoming. I mean, we're talking, you know,
extremely high caliber of work and so,
go make it a point to go visit her website, her Instagram, see her
work because you will, for sure enjoy it and it

(04:10):
will add so much context to this conversation that I have.
So without further ado, here is my creative chat with
my friend, Shen.
Hey, Shen. Welcome to the Creative Chats podcast. I'm excited that you're here
today. Local buddy. Thank you so much for having me, Mike.

(04:30):
You're one of my first friends here in Nashville, and I'm just so
excited to be here. I love how our art is, like, kind
of vibing off each other. Have you noticed? I do.
Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. We the the the art is making
friends too. It's great. I know. I love it. Love it. Love it.
Yes. And, yeah, like, I, you know, I love that we

(04:51):
had the opportunity to, you know, kind of be
together for the first time meet at a, Dickens Festival
here in in, Franklin. And, you know, that
kind of set the stage for, like, oh, yeah. Okay. Like, we've got a lot
in common. We've got lots of things to talk about. And so I
love when having this opportunity now to take some things that I've been experiencing

(05:13):
locally here for myself and then bring them to the show for the benefit of
of the listeners and other people too. And just also as a reminder of,
like, when when you get out and you meet people and you take a
part of things that are going on, like, you you form new
relationships and and new things happen. And, that can
happen for anybody anywhere. It's just you have to be proactive in

(05:35):
that. So this is a testimony to that, and so I hope that
is the first encouraging thing that people hear today. Absolutely.
Yes. % agree. I I wanna start by
asking okay. So, Shen. Shen is
a name. Where did that come from? Like, what's the backstory there?
Like, give us a little bit of insight into just,

(05:59):
you know, what's happening there. Alright. Alright. Yeah. Because people will
see me. They'll hear my name. They'll see me. They're like, you're not Asian. What's
the deal? Right. Right. So, yeah, I'm obviously not.
So I was the first female graffiti artist on the West Coast
in the eighties, and I had to choose a
name, a moniker. Like all of my friends, I

(06:19):
had Snow, Picasso, Crayon, friends that did graffiti. They had
their names, but then they had their graffiti names. Their
tags is what we called them. Yeah. So, I
was 15 when I had to pick my graffiti
name, and we're so wise at 15. Right.
But thank goodness that I wasn't the idiot that I could

(06:42):
have been and chose Smurfette. I did choose
Shen Shen two ten. Shen Shen
was a black hair, green eyed little elf in
an underground comic book called ElfQuest. Because back
in 1986, we didn't
have the Internet. We had to go to underground comic book

(07:04):
stores to find things like manga and the really
cool artistic creations that were comics and
things in those days, and we had to flip through all the comic books to
find our sources and our art reference. Anyway, I
found Shen Shen. Just thought she was cute. And, again, now that I'm in
my later years, so glad people don't have to call me

(07:25):
Smurfette. That's
amazing. Okay. Now I'm gonna I'm gonna admit something to you and, of course, all
listeners, and this is highly embarrassing. But when I was a
kid, I it was that it was that brief window when it's
like, oh, break dancing. People are, like, carrying around that little
piece of, like, linoleum flooring, and they're like, let's break dance, whatever. And

(07:47):
here's those, like, you know, these white kids in the suburban neighborhood trying to
do these things. Right? And along with that came the whole graffiti
culture and all that stuff hip hop. And so there was a brief window where
neighborhood kids were into that, and I was part of that. And
we stupidly decided to
graffiti and tag up in our own neighborhood. And

(08:10):
so because, you know, we can't drive anywhere. We can't and we're
not gonna hop on bikes and, you know, haul stuff around. And so
I was down the overpass of the expressway where I
lived, and I had to come up with a name as well. And the name
that my, like, 11 year old self came up with or whatever I was,
it was Sly, and it was anything but Sly.

(08:33):
Sly. That's so cute. That's awesome. I
love that. Yes. Highly embarrassing, but, mhmm. You just brought
back some memories for me talking about that. We actually did graffiti
right in my neighborhood, and I have no idea how I didn't get caught. I
totally forgot. We we hit up a
racquetball court, an outdoor racquetball court in San Jose, California

(08:55):
where I grew up right right near my house. I don't know how we didn't
get caught on that one. But usually, we painted under
bridges, under, you know, high under streets because we had
all these aqueducts in San Jose, these little streams down below, and
we'd usually go paint. Nobody would even see it. We had
a lot of, public spaces that people knew about. They'd actually like, the

(09:18):
Walls Of fame in San Jose that people would actually,
travel to go see. But we
we kind of, did all of our practicing on the less
visible ones in our neighborhoods and things. So it was it was pretty cool. We
go down there with a big duffle bag full of paint and at night Uh-huh.
You would only be able to paint according to value, especially if

(09:40):
you mixed up the colors in your bag. So and you couldn't use a
flashlight because, you know, it'll alert anybody that you're there. So
we learned how to paint by value rather than by color.
And so it was always a surprise to come back the next morning and see
what we had done. Purple would be in the place of blue
and, you know, all kinds of things. But it worked. Yeah. It was awesome.

(10:01):
Yeah. So how did that actually how did you get
involved with that? Like, how did that become a thing for me? So I was
friends in high school with a guy named James who
was Picasso two thousand. And I saw his
graffiti sketches and I just saw thought they were the coolest thing
ever. And quickly I realized, oh, I could do that too.

(10:23):
So I always love to draw. My first mural was on the back of my
bedroom door when I was three with Crayolas. My mom
came in really mad, and she said, what did you
that's actually not bad. So that was the beginning for me. My
parents were always super supportive even through the graffiti, believe it or not.
I I I just scratched my head at that. If my kids were out going

(10:46):
doing graffiti, I would not be so supportive. Right.
I think why they thought it was cool. So I don't know. I had crazy
parents, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. And so then how did
that translate into, okay, I want to actually be,
like, an artist and do this for a living and, like, not just
do these things on the streets at night hoping not to get caught.

(11:09):
Well, it happens so organically. You know, not everybody gets to do what they
wanna do when they're young. You know? And I don't know if
you asked me when I was watching Bob Ross as a
probably a 10 year old kid. I do not know that I would have said
I wanted to be an artist when I grow up. I remember
wanting to be a veterinarian, but it really did evolve

(11:31):
pretty. I couldn't have handled the school, But it
did evolve really organically because, in high school,
we had the opportunity to take a vocational program.
So I was not a good student. I was always doodling when
I should have been studying. And so
in junior as a junior in high school, I was able to go to the

(11:54):
vocational school half of the day and study
graphic design. Now these were the days when we pen and inked everything.
Oh, yeah. We had a a photographic
process called a PMT where we would we'd take a
big black and white drawing, and we'd shrink it down really small to make
it nice and crisp and clear, and those were that was my first business card.

(12:16):
You know, I I came across the other day. It's so cool. And,
all done with pen and ink and French curves and rulers and a pediograph
pen, which was Mhmm. A nightmare to try to keep clean and and
usable. So, anyway, they brought a computer in
and and said, this is gonna be the future. And I said, I don't want
anything to do with that thing. I'm gonna continue on with traditional media because I

(12:38):
love getting my hands dirty. I love paint. I love pens. I
love ink, all of the art supplies. I'm a total self proclaimed art
supply addict. And, you know,
I so after I was, you know, learning how
to do all those things, logos for, you know,

(12:58):
make believe companies and things like that were our projects. I did
very well. The graphic design teacher loved me,
and, I just got great encouragement. I got my
first gig when I was 15,
designing a huge brochure for my dad's
friend who owned a window and door company. So I had

(13:20):
to use a rapidiograph and draw dozens and dozens of
these diagrams of the windows and doors for them to
sell through this catalog. I think I made, like, $600 back in, like,
1985 doing that, which was so much money. So that
was that was the beginning of my professional art career. And, this
year, we're celebrating forty years of me being a professional artist.

(13:43):
What happened after that was I got my first job at well, my first job
was at Kentucky Fried Chicken, but we don't talk about that. Don't tell anybody.
Yeah, that was a bit. But well, my parents were the Antique Roadshow
original family. So we would get up at
03:00 in the morning every Saturday and Sunday, all of school
all of my school years starting at, like, age six. My dad

(14:05):
would scour the back of station wagons and vans with a flashlight
before it got light in the morning looking for the best
treasures. He'd buy them, turn around, put them on his table that afternoon,
and sell them. The ones that didn't sell, he'd bring home, put on my
desk at home, and I'd have to repaint them or touch them up for him.
So I realized at that young age, there was a purpose for me in my

(14:27):
art. My dad really valued it, and I was always searching for my dad's
approval because he told me when he was when I was 16 that he
didn't want me. He loved me, but he didn't want me.
And, you know, I was I was very
aware of that growing up. When he said it, it was like,
oh, okay. So I was always searching

(14:50):
for my dad's approval. So that was, I think, a big piece for me in
the whole art was Yeah. It made dad happy. And
then and it helped. It helped the family. We struggled
financially, so it was helpful. It was a big deal when we'd sell
something real he would collect the coolest pop culture relics,
you know, Eminem guys and just all kinds of crazy clocks,

(15:13):
beer signs, musical instruments, all the pop culture things, clocks.
Excuse me. And, I got a job after
shortly after that at airbrush airbrushing T shirts at
Six Flags amusement park in Santa Claris. It was actually Great America
back then, now at Six Flags. But I got a job. They
handed me an airbrush. And now I had only done the graffiti

(15:36):
art at this time, the spray paint murals, but
they handed me an airbrush, and they said, go home and
learn this next week, and you're gonna be painting
in front of crowds. Oh, gosh. So I was too young and stupid
to know that it was hard. So I went I went home and
I learned how to use it. And I went back the next weekend, and

(16:00):
I'm sure those shirts were terrible, but they kept getting better
little by little. Yeah. And that is how my truly professional
IWATA airbrushes, and my airbrush is a
large portion of what I do in my career even to this day.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. I mean, I remember trying an

(16:23):
airbrush earlier on. I I guess it was, like, either late high
school or maybe early art school, college.
And it was a friend who had one and was like, hey. You should try
this. And so I borrowed it and, you know, and then was trying it. And
I'm like, wait. There's, like, the toggles. I feel like I'm so
discombobulated with the coordination of, like, the flow and the this and

(16:45):
that. And I'm like, I I don't know what to do. This is weird. And
I'm like, I can't know. This isn't for me, and I never tried it again.
Oh, well, we should get you get one back in your hands. I could help
you a little bit. I could help you a little bit. Yeah. We gotta do
something. Let's do that. Let's do that. I'll do some abstract work,
maybe. Well, have you used spray cans at all?

(17:06):
Not since my graffiti days either. Alright. We we gotta fix that
too, Mike. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and it's funny because you you talk about, like,
how computers were introduced into things for you.
Right? I was right there too. Right? That was that was my I mean, we're
we're in the same same category there as far as the introduction
of the computer to graphic design and and more art

(17:27):
things. And so, actually, it was halfway through
my, my associate's degree in which they
said, okay. We're gonna switch things over to computer now, and you
guys are gonna learn how to do this. And I was like, oh, so everything
I just learned, like, the last year is we're not gonna actually do it. And
they're like, well, it's few and far between when people are actually
using, you know, those type of materials for, you know,

(17:50):
production and all the other things now. But I was glad I learned both. But,
anyway, the the the whole thing was that when computer was introduced, then I was
like, oh, actually, I I'm going towards this, and I stopped using more
traditional things. So I was like the opposite of you. And I fully embraced
the technology. And it was also, I think, because I played so
many video games and had a Commodore 64 when I was a kid

(18:12):
and did things with that. And so technology and even I think
there was this drawing program that was really like it was like a
block, like a literal square, and you would draw with the square. And
there was, like, this koala pad thing that was called, and you would draw it
was a drawing tablet. I mean, this was, like, really early eighties stuff.
And, I just remember being kind of enamored with it even though, like, the

(18:34):
results were pretty crude. Yeah. There was something there for me, so
I ended up going that way. But, anyway That's really cool. Those were the days
of the Amiga. Remember the Amiga? Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just interesting because, you know, it's
two people can be standing at the same crossroads Goodness. And make different
choices depending upon what feels like it's more aligned with who they

(18:56):
are. That is such a good point, Mike. And I'll tell you, it's so crazy
because I was literally down the street from where
two guys were putting together computers
in their garage and selling them without cases. You know, that
ended up being Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak.
You know. And a good friend of mine worked at Apple, and I

(19:19):
won't go into that, but I had a lot of opportunities in that
world and didn't even think about it.
I didn't even think about it. I got my first iMac to do administrative
stuff. Yeah. It's too bad you didn't have, like, an early prototype that
you hung on to. It's gonna be worth a lot of money today. I I
probably did, but yeah. Yeah. The moving, all the

(19:41):
moving. Let go of stupid things that we didn't think would
would be so valuable today. Right? Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. So I wanna come back to your story now. So the
the, airbrushing T shirts, that
kind of evolves into you then just doing your own
work, finding making things in your own, selling

(20:03):
things, like or or was were there more,
kind of, like, job things as opposed to, like, having your
own, creative practice and that supporting you? Like, what did that
look like as it developed? Oh my goodness. So I
really kind of would call myself
a commercial artist

(20:25):
until fairly recently
because I apprenticed with an
artist. I met him after high school.
His name was Bear, and,
he in he was Native American, and

(20:45):
he allowed me to come and stay with him in Daly
City, California, South San Francisco.
And in exchange for me teaching him
how to airbrush, he would teach me fine art. So
he taught me the fine art of portraiture, a lot of the
basics of fine art, and in turn, I taught him how to

(21:07):
airbrush. Well, we also went on the road and did things like
the Monterey Jazz Festival where we would set up a booth,
and he introduced me to the entire art
festival culture. And so I was
19 when I met him and worked with him and stayed
with him and his family. And

(21:30):
so I got introduced to that again very organically.
I stopped attending I was at junior college at the time.
I stopped attending junior college. I
stupidly I cannot believe how prideful we are when we were
young. I
just went to an art school. I think it was the Art

(21:52):
Institute of in San Francisco and met with the
president, you know, to look at maybe
getting an art education at an art school. He said
to me, well, what do you think that you could learn if you came
to our school? What do you think you could learn from us? Which is a
great question to ask. And I took it as

(22:14):
I was so good. He didn't have anything to teach me.
I'm so embarrassed to say that.
That happening
meant that I had to forge my own path. Right?
So we look back, and things could have been so

(22:36):
different had I actually been trained up
in the business of art and all of the things, you
know, made all the connections in an art school
that could have absolutely propelled my career, I think it was honestly
god's grace. Because if the things hadn't played
out the way that they had, I would've

(22:59):
I probably would've killed myself, like the young,
you know, all of the music icons that
died in their mid twenties from overdoses because
there was just too much success available to them. No
rules. No laws applied to them. Like, you know,
if Jimi Hendrix got caught by a police officer, he's gonna throw him in bars

(23:22):
for getting high. No. You know, there's no no law applies
to them, and I think that would have been me if I had gotten success
early. So I'm actually really grateful that God didn't
allow that. Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. Mhmm.
So in these things, you know, it's amazing. I mean, you have so many
stories and so many experiences. And, you know, I'm

(23:43):
sure we're just scratching the surface of these things. But
was there a point at which you're you're, like,
battling, okay. I'm afraid to do these things, or, like, I'm I'm
I'm not sure about this stuff, but I'm kinda pushing through the
fear and doing it anyway? Or was there just more of the sense of this
is what I have to do because if I'm gonna make something of this, I

(24:05):
need to take whatever opportunities are for me?
I just feel like I had no choice. You
know? I don't know if you remember when we met at the Dickens Fair, I
maxed out halfway through the day. I'm like, sorry, Mike. I can't talk anymore. I'm
I'm out of energy. I used it all up earlier in the day. Well,
I'm not even an extrovert like many people think. I'm an extreme

(24:27):
introvert, but I've learned to be an extrovert out of necessity,
out of needing to be to be able to share with people
my story and about my art. And in
order to be a salesperson, you have to be winsome.
So I had to learn how to become winsome.

(24:47):
I also always suffered with an incredible,
incredible amount of,
just low self worth
because of what happened with my dad. Just incredible
low self worth. And I was made

(25:08):
I was bullied, like, unbelievably bullied, you know, all
through school. And I I've actually had some
people contact me and apologize for
bullying me in school because it was so bad. People that
I became friends with through friends on Facebook and things like
that. But I was overweight. You know,

(25:30):
I was I had lots of eating disorders my entire life, struggled with
that, struggled with, you know, abuse, addictive
tendencies. And,
the art, Mike, was the one thing. The art
was the one thing where when I was in high school and
Van Halen was the best thing ever Yeah.

(25:53):
David Lee Roth. It was my first concert. I
learned how to draw the van that cool Van Halen logo with the
lines by heart. Made it all
chrome with pencil. You know? I'd have a stack of 10
yearbooks on my desk. So think about it. In
high school, everybody hated me, but they

(26:15):
wanted my art. That just totally
defined what I needed to do next. I needed to keep
pursuing that art, whatever the cost. Mhmm.
Yeah. It it it must be
a hard thing when you're you're recognizing that
there's value there and that you can do something that can

(26:38):
serve other people in that. Right? They wanna be around you because you have this
ability, because you can create things that that speak to them. And
yet there's also the other side of things where it's
the way things are are for artists in our culture
is that it's the life of struggle. It's
the this isn't an easy path. This is a,

(27:01):
either you find the
pathways that are, quote, proven and the gatekeepers and all
that side of the business things,
or you kind of go and blaze your own trail and try to figure
things out and perhaps take the long way
around, but you end up

(27:23):
owning more of the process and the journey for yourself and hopefully
figuring it out. Right? Is there and and I can see
that your your pathway, you like you said, it's been more organic. It's been more
this kind of, like, relationships and key moments and
and and pivoting into things as you need
to. Was there a sense

(27:46):
of consciousnessly doing that stuff?
Right? Like, so that you're going, I don't
know how I'm going to make this happen, but I'm going to just keep
at this. And knowing that you didn't go a traditional
route maybe, did you know that there were gonna be,
like, as much windiness to the road as there you know what

(28:08):
I mean? Well, one of my favorite
illustrations
is of the road of life, and it has a
little character on a bicycle. And there
is a big flag up here at the top.

(28:28):
But when you look down at the path itself,
there's valleys, there's little cliffs, there's a little flag
here, and there's a little flag there when you get to this mountain top.
No. I had no idea. I figured it was it was a
one way
road to success, and it would be straight up. I didn't

(28:52):
realize it was like this. Yeah. And I
remember meeting a gal who was, in my opinion, an
incredible artist with an incredible voice of her own,
which I always craved on such
an incredibly deep levels. Having my own voice
as an artist and not just I became very good at photorealism.

(29:14):
Like, I I could do I could have gone so far with
photorealism. I honestly think I could
have been exactly like like Chuck Close is one of my
heroes. I think I totally could have replicated
Chuck Close's work and gone maybe even farther with the photorealism.
But I hit a point with it where I felt like I was so good

(29:37):
at it, it got boring. Mhmm. It just got boring.
And I wanted to say something on the canvas
that people felt that wasn't
articulated by anyone else. Mhmm. So that that's
been my goal for many, many years. And figuring that
out has been the greatest challenge of my life. That's been the

(29:59):
greatest challenge. Yeah. I I I get again,
I would say dying to myself has been the greatest challenge, but that
one's that one's probably a close second. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. There is an evolution to
you as an artist and you as with your work that happens
the longer you stay with it and engage with it. And don't

(30:21):
simply settle, like like you said, you know, you hit those points at which things
become a little boring, a little, you know, routine. And those
are the moments that you start going, okay. I gotta get curious about something
else because this needs to have a freshness to it
so that I'm bringing the best parts of me to it.
Because when someone interacts with my work, I want them

(30:43):
to interact with me and my voice and the
things that I I'm trying to say, the things that I
value. I want them to come through my work. And so in order for that
to happen, we can't be simply just going through the motions of things because
people will know because we'll know and we won't show up the right way.
Have there been key moments for you that you can think about that have

(31:06):
been, like, here was a breakthrough or here was a moment that really
helped me level up and kind of evolve in
my artistry?
Yes. I have to say so I had
when my father my father shot himself when I was
27, and

(31:31):
my life spiraled down really fast after that. I
had already taken part in some extraordinary apprenticeships.
The muralist John Pew, I worked under him,
and several other amazing artists.
I that's how I kind of got my education is I would offer

(31:53):
to clean their studios to just be in their presence.
Great artists that I'd meet in California and usually well,
visited some in other places, Portland, Oregon, Michael Casey.
I worked with him.
So after my father died,

(32:16):
I went into such a dark place
that we, as a family,
my mom and dad and I was only child, we would often
go and listen to live jazz.
And we went to a place in San Jose called the Garden City, and it
was a it was a casino a card casino, but

(32:39):
they had the most incredible jazz musicians in this little lounge. And we would
go there for dinner, like, every week as I was an adult.
And I just fell in love with them. I fell in love with the
music. So it just
brought out things for me, emotions for
me that I could

(33:02):
grapple with Mhmm. And understand.
So after dad died, I embarked upon a series of
paintings that were very dark, and they
were all jazz the jazz greats. They were the jazz classics.
I painted Thelonious Monk. I painted Charlie
Parker, you know, and I studied them all as well. Louis

(33:24):
Armstrong,
lots of Miles Davis, lots of the greats. So,
anyway, I got an opportunity to show my work. Oh, and I did a stupid
thing. I wanna mention this in case you have any artists listening.
Yeah. Learn from mine. Don't make this stupid mistake. I was in a wonderful
gallery in La Jolla, California, an amazing gallery,

(33:46):
exclusive collections. They're still there. And,
I showed my work there, this series, this jazz series. I got an opportunity and
showed my work there, and I had about 10 p
10 large pieces hanging in the gallery. And then I
got an opportunity to do a vanity gallery in New York City.
We didn't use the term vanity gallery back then, but now everybody knows what it

(34:09):
is. Yes. Pay to play. So, anyway,
I pulled my work from that gallery because I had had no sales in six
months. Right? Yeah. Super
bad idea. It's another time where I think god saved me from
success that would have been to my demise.

(34:29):
And so I got this show in New York City. I brought all
the work took the work out of the gallery, never got back in the gallery
again. I tried and tried. And then they ended up opening locations at
Caesar's Palace and grew, grew, grew. Like
yeah. Right?
The remorse. And so, anyway, I had this show in New

(34:51):
York City, and I expected it to be so fabulous. You know,
my life's defining moment. Well, you could have heard
a pin drop during the opening. There were so few people there.
And I fell to my knees in this little bathroom, in this Soho
bathroom, in this gallery. And I said, Jesus, if you're real,

(35:11):
please show me. I was 28 years old.
I'm now 55, and not a day goes
by where Jesus doesn't show me many times throughout the
day how real he is. So that was
my life's defining moment. At 28 years old, I became
a born again Christian, and I started to paint

(35:34):
things that really mattered at that juncture.
Yeah. Having hope,
having a changing transformation
experience like that, that then not only changes
you, but changes your work. How did
you figure out how to

(35:58):
introduce this newfound faith into
things that you were doing, you know, because a lot of the things that you
do, like, are, you know, celebrity
portraits or or things of that nature of, like, pop culture oriented
things. And I know for me, like, when I was younger, I was thinking to
myself, okay. Well, if I want to express my

(36:20):
faith in art, I need to do a picture of Jesus or a
picture of a cross or whatever. Like, I fell into that mentality of, like, a
direct, like, this is what this looks like. Later on, I
understood. No. That's not what we're talking about here. We're
actually talking about some stuff that's more nuanced,
and and not as, like, in your face a lot of times. Not you know?

(36:42):
And, again, each person, it's it's personal. But for you, how did that
translate? What did that look like for you as it started to find its way
into your art? You know, it's a struggle that I
still face to this day, and I
think I paint about the struggle, honestly.
Yeah. I started out painting gorgeous portraits of Jesus.

(37:05):
I've painted a lot of scripture. I did a an
amazing painting of Mary Magdalene,
wiping the anointing oil off Jesus's feet
with her hair and and her tears.
I've painted many Christian pieces,

(37:29):
And I took the Milan
art mastery program.
I met, Ellie Milan, the owner of that
school,
and she is a woman of faith. And

(37:50):
so that caused me to look at this school just a couple of years
ago, and it's a one year, very in-depth, self paced
program that teaches you all the basics.
But it has, I think, about a a third of the program,
maybe a quarter, is about finding your voice, figuring out your
why. Mhmm. And that was that

(38:12):
was really what I took the program
to figure out. It taught me a lot of other incredible
skills that I needed and didn't even know I
needed them. Mhmm. But I
highly recommend that program. I actually have a link on my
Linktree through my Instagram. If anybody's interested

(38:34):
in checking out that program, it'll just kick me back
a little, you know, a little thank you. Yeah.
But a little financial thank you. But,
it's it's an incredible program, and it really helped me to see,
how I could share my faith

(38:56):
with others without preaching through my
paintings, if that makes sense. Yes. Absolutely. Yes.
Yes. Yes. And that you know, that's something that,
is very much part of my own story and my own journey, and I don't
necessarily lead with that a lot of times.
But as I talk to people and as things feel like

(39:18):
it's organic, I certainly am not hiding any of that stuff either. And I've talked
about at at times where I'm like, yeah, I was in full time ministry for
ten years. And so my
faith has always been something that has been important and
a a driving factor. And really
that's my understanding of life, my my

(39:39):
understanding of of joy, hope, and redemption, which is so
much a part of the things that I do. And as I've looked at the
pieces of my life and the brokenness of things and
gone, I need to understand this for myself, but I
also need to figure out how to

(39:59):
have redemption enter this so that it not only brings me home, but brings other
people home. And that has been something that is overarching
regardless of whatever it is that I do. Mhmm. Absolutely. And the values
the values of what I believe and and
what are important to me come through in all the things I do. So whether
it's this podcast, whether it's it's my visual art, whether it's

(40:22):
writing books, what it doesn't matter, or if it's conversations that I'm just having, you
know, daily. I think there's the sense of this is
your identity. This is who you are. Mhmm. You know, on on
my my arm here, you know, I've got the tattoo beloved, and
it's on my arm that I I write with
and paint with and draw with. And the reason why it's the only tattoo that

(40:45):
I have and the reason why it's there is a reminder that that's who I
really am. And if my ability to
draw or write or do anything with this hand goes away, I
don't go away. I'm still me. I may need to
find another avenue to express and
to explore my creativity. Mhmm. And that may look

(41:06):
different, but I don't go away because
I haven't tied my identity specifically to that
expression or craft. And I think that's
especially hard when I've known people who have either gotten into accidents
or there's been some other kind of thing where all of a sudden they're not
able to do. You know, they lose their hearing. They're a musician.

(41:28):
And it's this very real painful moment of, like, now what? What do I do?
Where do I go from here? And so I say all that to say
faith and creativity is so much bigger than
simply making what we sometimes
call Jesus junk. Right? Which is the

(41:49):
the, you know, shlocky,
you know, bumper sticker y type of things
that you find in many places. Well, it's interesting because
yeah. I agree with you, but I'm actually I just bought a website
called unashamedart.com.
And I'm toying around with the idea of doing a line of Christian t

(42:12):
shirts, but they're, like, graffiti. Yeah.
You know, one of them you you just gave me the idea to do one
that says beloved. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. You know, with the bible verse under
it. Yeah. But it's gonna be a little bit wild style,
you know, which is graffiti a graffiti font that's a
little hard to read. Mhmm. So, you know, my hope in these that the

(42:34):
is that they would be conversations, Parker's. Yeah.
Well and and even in the way that you do it, you
introduce craft. You introduce Right. Something
that has been honed for years. Yeah. Not simply
just, hey. Let me slap this down because I can mass market this
and just push it out and people can, you know like, that's what I talk

(42:57):
about when I say, like, the Jesus junk stuff. You know? Mhmm. It's it's the
thoughtless just simply, let me just put this out there
because I maybe I can make a buck or whatever and, you know, I know
people will buy it because Right. People tend to buy those things. You know,
you're doing things that are more thoughtful. You're doing things like I love that you
say, you know, these can be conversation starters. These these can be things that can

(43:18):
help even give voice to someone who may not
be able to articulate something. They may see this and say, thank
you for making that because that's what I feel or that's what I
resonate with. And I would never have been able to create
that myself or say something like that myself, but you've done it for me. So
thank you. Oh, thank you. That's inspiring, Mike. You've been

(43:41):
inspiring me on this call. I appreciate the mutual encouragement. It's
awesome. So I never got to share with you, the last part of
why, of my name. Yeah. It's
Shen Shen two ten. And so I
just chose two ten back when I was a teenager because it
rhymed. But many years later,

(44:03):
God showed me Ephesians two ten,
which is a Bible verse. And it says, for we are
God's masterpiece. He has created us anew in
Christ Jesus so that we can do the good things
that he planned for us long ago. Can
you believe that I chose that as the end of my

(44:25):
name way before I ever
became God conscious? I wasn't even God
conscious at that age. And so
it's that Bible verse means that
God has written every day in his book,
every day of our lives before one of them even came to be,

(44:47):
which is another Bible verse. Mhmm. And,
I just find so much comfort in that.
So it really is just a daily seeking
God, and he will direct our steps.
Yeah. Yeah. In the art And the You
know, in everything. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And that's part

(45:09):
of who we're created to be Mhmm. Is people who
are creative, who are reflecting our
creator. Mhmm. And when we do those things,
we're showing that we're we're cocreating. Yeah.
You know? There's there's things that we get ideas and things. And some people may

(45:29):
wanna call, you know, the muse. Some people may wanna call it, you know, the
universe drop. Well, like, whatever. But, you know, personally, I believe, yeah,
like, god has his hand in all those things. And
when you get inspired, when you when you feel
like you've received something and then wanna create
out of that as a reaction to or

(45:51):
saying, I know that this means something to me.
Perhaps it'll mean something to somebody else. And then it becomes a gift for
somebody, and it becomes something that that's a a conduit
where then God could then speak to somebody else through that,
you know. That's the best. Those are the moments where yeah. Yeah. You're like, oh,
man. Like, you know and it's funny. I just had, work up

(46:13):
a a local coffee shop here and and it's kind of combined with a ministry
and, they didn't know me from anything and they I had to
show some of my work to be able to, get approval for
for hanging things around. And, I have some things that are more
themed like, for clean water initiatives
and some things that are certainly inspired by faith but

(46:36):
are not overtly, again. And yet they
still were able to say, you know what? There's something about your work that that
just resonates. There's something there. And I'm like, yeah. It's it's when
you have that god factor, you know, it's like
there's there's a shorthand. There's a recognition and
fingerprints that are there. And so, it's it's

(46:57):
amazing when you get to see those opportunities too with somebody
recognizes without them. And you know that you're on the right track
when you're getting persecuted, which I've experienced quite a
bit lately. Mhmm. People canceling me
and, not liking me.
And I think that people

(47:20):
only are going to dislike you if you're really standing
strong in what you believe, and it goes
against what they believe. So it's a little bit of a hard place to be.
Yeah. Yeah. Especially when your livelihood is dependent
on things. And it's not
like we don't have a job like somebody else where this

(47:43):
is my personal life and my home life and my whatever. Absolutely. And this is
me going in and fulfilling a role and doing whatever, and they don't
the the two can be in separate boxes. Exactly. We're all in one
box. Absolutely. This is who I am. This is my brand. This
is what's important. Yes. As I'm creating, I'm creating out of my values
and what my opinions are and and so on and so forth. Yes. Well, one

(48:05):
of my husband's favorite quotes and mine as
well is, in order for
evil to prosper, it only requires one person
to stay silent.
Yeah. And it's hard to

(48:28):
feel like when you're someone
who's, like, the odd man out, so to speak, to not feel
the pressure of that in what you're doing and to
go, no. I'm I'm going to stand. Yeah. An an interesting,
story was the mural. Right? You you've seen that story.

(48:48):
So I painted this mural of moms and babies, a 20 foot long
mural, 20 feet high as a gift to the city of Houston.
A Week in, we're almost done with this huge massive mural.
And, the owners of the property we didn't get the
proper contracts in place, so that was another

(49:09):
mistake on my part, that I learned from.
Right? That won't happen again. Yeah. But in this
case, god really used it in a major way because
they whitewashed this incredible mural. Look at, the
impact of Shen's mural on Houston on YouTube, if you wanna see that
video. And

(49:33):
they whitewashed it before I was even finished with it. But what had
happened during the course of me painting this mural was I saw
somebody bringing groceries
into an abandoned storefront
in this building. We later found out there were
human trafficking victims being held in there, and an

(49:56):
investigation, we believe
ended up setting some sex slaves free. Mhmm. And I'm
a huge advocate for anti human trafficking
and have worked with organizations and raised lots of funds using my
art, to help provide resources for those
that are stuck in that life or trying to get out of that life

(50:18):
or hurt by that life. I've had a lot
of abuse in my background as well that really gives me a
great deal of compassion for victims and survivors as
well. But it's it's a tough road. Yeah. It's a
really tough road. So I'm so grateful that we did that mural
even though it was whitewashed. It was probably one of my best works I've

(50:41):
ever done. Mhmm. And even though it was whitewashed because
I believe slaves were set free as a result. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. That's the power of creativity to
to shed light, to get people's attention,
to disrupt, to I mean, there's so many
layers to that. And

(51:04):
when people ask, is it is it really
important that I show up and create like, what what difference can I make?
Or, like, this is too hard. I don't know if I can keep going
on this. Like, what's at stake sometimes we don't
even realize. And to
to go either way to be too grandiose and think like, oh,

(51:28):
I'm, I'm just the star here. I, you know, people, of course, need my work
and of course need to, you know, that's that's got its own
pitfalls. But then so does the other side of
what I create is not worth anything. And I I don't
I'm not gonna make the time to show up to create because in the end,
it doesn't matter. And I hope people hear it does

(51:50):
matter. It does. Very much so. And not
only to you, but to other people.
Well, the greatest gift that we can give to
others and to the world as a whole is our
own healing. So
I encounter people on the daily that say I can't do

(52:12):
art. I would love to do art, but I can't. And
I ask them, you know, was there someone earlier in your
life, in your formative years specifically,
that said something to you
that is a lie that you're still
carrying today? And I just encourage

(52:34):
those folks. And, you know, they may not even remember,
and that's okay. But I believe that, you know, everyone
is an artist. And the difficult part, like Picasso
said, is unlearning everything that you've learned since you were a
child so that you can become a child again. Yeah.
So I encouraged, some

(52:56):
artists that I met the other day that are not practicing their
art presently. And I said, why don't you guys
just get a piece of paper out at dinner, especially if you go out
to eat and you're waiting for your meal to arrive after you order, and give
yourself each a minute and build on each other's doodles.
And I'll tell you, Mike, this entire line of t shirts that we're

(53:18):
hoping to do has evolved from just doodles.
Mhmm. Just allowing myself the freedom to doodle,
and it's so empowering.
Yeah. I love that. I love that because people can look at your work and
be like like, oh my gosh. Like, the the
the scale of it and the scope of it and the detail of it, and

(53:40):
yet you're also talking about the importance of doodles. Absolutely. I love
that there's room for everything. Oh my goodness. Yes. Play. You know? Play with
jelly plates. Yes. Hey, guys. Yes. If you're an artist, go
to Instagram and, you know, hashtag
jelly plate demos. I think that would be the right term. You

(54:01):
think? Probably. Yeah. I I mean, I've done those myself too.
Yeah. Oh, they're fabulous. The things that you can do with jelly plates and
some cutout magazines and some stencils and a
roller. I mean, probably under
$40. You can buy all those supplies and
make fabulous artwork with zero skill.

(54:22):
Yeah. Zero skill required. And you know what? Doing
the things that require zero skill really can
help you develop a confidence
that can start to take you into your own creativity,
and it's just gonna keep snowballing. And, you know,
I just, you know, I don't look forward I don't

(54:46):
I don't fear growing old because even if
I'm confined to a wheelchair, god forbid, you know, even if I
am, I'm gonna hopefully still be able to doodle. I
mean, I think of Joni Eareckson Tada
painting with a paintbrush holding it with her mouth
and how inspiring that was to hear her story.

(55:09):
You know? Yeah. Yeah. I love that you said
play too because that's something, you know, I talk a lot about, you know,
obviously, in my my book, Make Fun of Habit your book. But thank
you. Yeah. But this thought of play
and fun, like, that's all stuff that I think
is for people who are just starting out who are going

(55:31):
like, I don't know what this looks like. I don't know what I wanna do.
I I just need some access point to just dive in and try
something. That's play. And then also all the way up to people who are
are the seasoned people. Right? People who are the quote professional artists, whatever,
who've been doing things for years and years and years, there still needs to be
the sense of play and discovery. Absolutely. Because that's what keeps things fresh. That's what

(55:52):
keeps things alive and keeps you evolving and changing into
things. And like we said before, where you don't fall into that, this is just
routine and boring. And, you know, and
so I love that it's it's there for everybody.
And whatever that looks like for you in the right next step, just do
that. And you're the right next step. Absolutely. Yeah.

(56:14):
My favorite quote that was given to me about
creativity, John Clayton, he
arranged the Grammy winning performance of
Whitney Houston doing the star stank Spangled Banner at the Super
Bowl. He said to me, Shen, create
for five minutes a day. It doesn't matter what it is.

(56:36):
Just make sure you allow yourself five minutes a day to be creative.
Yes. Yes. And that's that's how I came back to my art.
Suffering depression going, like, I don't know if I can do this anymore. I don't
know what this could look like. And anything that I thought of was too
big, and I didn't have the capacity for. Right. But I thought, well, yes.
I can do five, ten minutes a day, maybe fifteen if I'm lucky,

(56:58):
especially suffering from depression. That was the entrance way
back. And doing that consistently
is what led me to where I am right now, which is, like, thirteen years
later after having walked away from my art for ten years
and then going, does this have a place in my life
anymore? Can it? What does it look like? I don't know. There were

(57:21):
so many unknowns. And that five, ten minutes a
day led to things. It unlocked things, and
it it it started a progression. And then
it ushered in some clarity, and it ushered in even me understanding
my voice and my style and all these things that that even though I had
been creative my whole entire life, I did not know those things

(57:43):
because I hadn't gone on that journey. Mhmm. And while depression was a
thing that I would never wish on anybody and wouldn't want to
experience to that level again, It was also the thing
that brought the redemption, that brought the Mhmm. Catalyst
moment for me to come back and engage and Absolutely. Led me
to who I am today. And so,

(58:07):
yeah, that is all part of the journey that
no one tells you about. No one can give
you a map because everybody has a different pathways,
you know, to that. There are certainly things, obviously, you can learn from and apply,
you know, methodologies and things. But there there's there's nothing

(58:27):
that will replace you having agency over yourself in your journey,
showing up, being engaged, following curiosity,
and, and just doing the work again and again and
again and keep going. Mhmm. Mhmm.
That's my number one piece of advice I give to little kids that come up
and see me painting. I say, do you like to do art?

(58:49):
And they never say no. Right. Never.
Never do I ever encounter a kid that doesn't like to do
art. Yeah. And that's what helps me to know that every
adult has either told themselves something
or heard something that discourage them from
creating. Yeah. So the number one piece of

(59:10):
advice I give little ones is just keep doing it. Mhmm.
Just keep it up. Just don't ever stop. It's
awesome. Yeah. Creativity is awesome. And it's great
advice for big ones too. Mhmm. Mhmm.
So good. Well, we're at the top of our time already. I can't believe it.
I mean, you know, obviously, we could we could sit around and talk for days,

(59:31):
and we we actually can locally. So Yeah. Yeah. There's that. But
Yeah. Yeah. As we wrap things up for the podcast, let let people
know where can they find you, how can they, you know,
experience your art, and just more of you.
So I am showing my
original work presently at the Gold Mountain Gallery in

(59:54):
Telluride, Colorado. Same
gallery in Jackson Hole, Wyoming. And we're
now opening a new location in Fort Worth, Texas.
Wow. I, am showing here locally
at many different venues. Presently, I'm at the heirloom shop
in downtown Franklin, Tennessee.

(01:00:17):
And then we do other events. I've asked
been asked to be the featured artist at the Covington,
Three Rivers Art Festival, which is near, New
Orleans in Covington, Louisiana,
and that'll be in November. I think that's the second weekend in November.

(01:00:38):
And, as well, I'm not
a % confirmed yet, but I will probably be at the Red Dot
Art Fair during Art Basel in December of this year.
And more dates to come, so the best place to find out about my upcoming
events would be on my
website at ShenStudio.com.

(01:01:00):
My Instagram and Facebook are both Shen Shen two
ten. Perfect. Yeah. Make sure
I put those in the show notes. Makes it easy for people. And,
and and if you're listening right now and or watching and you're like, oh,
I need to find out more about Chen's art, please go to her
website. Please visit her Instagram. Expose yourself to as much

(01:01:23):
of her art as possible. You will see what has
been given life in in through the conversation we've had today, you'll
you'll you'll see it. It's right there visually for you to enjoy and experience.
So please do that. So, Jen, thank you so much for this time
today. I love that we got to do this. I love that we get to
hang out on a semi regular basis. And,

(01:01:44):
yeah, one of my community artists here locally. Thank you so much. So
thankful for you, Mike. So thankful that we both moved to
Nashville at the same time.
Thanks for listening today. I'd appreciate if you would subscribe, leave

(01:02:06):
a rating and a review. It really helps this podcast be seen
and heard by others.

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