Episode Transcript
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Ellyn (00:00):
Hello, everyone.
(00:01):
Welcome back to CreativeCrossroads.
We've got a real treat for youtoday.
Our friend Amanda Dunbar is hereto share some insights into her
creative process and what she'slearned along the way.
Amanda said that she's a makerand a scholar of makers, which
is really cool.
She's primarily an oil painter,a printmaker, and she's also a
(00:24):
PhD candidate in art history.
So lots to be learned here, andwe look forward to diving right
in.
Hi Amanda, how are you?
Amanda (00:32):
I am good.
How are you, Ellen?
Ellyn (00:34):
I'm great, and
Catherine's here too.
Catherine (00:37):
Amanda, we are so
excited to chat with you today.
And I think I think we want tostart the conversation off today
with you telling us what does itmean to you to be a creative
person
Amanda (00:48):
It's such a big word
that can mean all sorts of
things.
I think everybody is creative.
You're constantly creative,whether that's finding like a
new root home, sometimes findinga new recipe to cook.
I think when we're talking aboutcreativity in the visual arts,
it's really just about.
(01:09):
Finding new materials and newways to do something and just
keeping it fresh by justexperimenting a lot.
So I think it's just creativityis just about trying lots of
things, failing at most of themand having, success errors, but
always learning and always beinginspired to keep trying new
(01:29):
things.
Catherine (01:29):
You talked to us
about how your creative process
works when you're working on acreative project.
Amanda (01:36):
Yeah.
So a lot of people ask me thisbecause and I really wish there
was like a really.
Crystalline this is, these aremotivating words to go, go forth
and do this, exactly.
I think, for me, one idea leadsinto the next.
If I'm that's actually how myPhD came about.
(01:57):
I started painting because I sawbooks in an art history book
that I thought were amazing, andI wanted to try to make this, so
that I, Became a maker made.
And then as I was making, Ilearned so much about art and
making and materials, and Iwanted to read more about it.
And I realized there was like a,kind of a gap between people
(02:19):
that make art and scholars whowrite about it.
So I got really interested inthat, which leads to just
countless.
Sources of inspiration forpainting and it's like this
feedback loop, right?
I also During the pandemic I waspregnant And I wasn't really
supposed to be touching oilpaint and I really just needed
to work with my hands and makesomething That's when I got into
(02:42):
like I guess fiber arts for lackof a better word i'm by no means
a professional but I found thatit was a way to exercise a lot
of the same muscles As painting.
So looking at value, color,balance, overall composition,
getting to zoom in and look atthe overall picture and that.
(03:05):
led into new ideas for painting,which led into new ideas for my
dissertation, which that it'sthis big circle.
So it's just one thing leadsinto another that you can't pre
plan.
You just go with the flow andjust try to remain open to all
possibilities.
Catherine (03:23):
So how do you know
when something Like if you're
just gonna go with the flow withit, how do you know when
something is done?
Amanda (03:28):
That's a fantastic
question.
And I don't always.
Sometimes it just, it comes to alogical conclusion, if that
makes sense.
That's something I'm honestlyI'm struggling with a ton right
now in actually writing adissertation is because I'm
like, Oh, but I could do this.
Oh, but I could do this.
Okay.
And I keep reminding myself.
What's that old adage?
Perfection is the enemy ofcompletion, or I can't remember
(03:52):
exactly how that goes, but it'slike a finished project is
better than one that you'llnever finish because you'll
never achieve perfection.
How do I know when it's done?
I think, and I, this is what Isay about when I'm making
paintings, and I think this istrue too, even in writing, when
what I am doing to it Is nolonger adding to the project.
(04:15):
It's just, it's starting to takeaway from it.
There's a really fine balancebetween overworking something
and, to the point where it'sjust, you've ruined it, right?
Catherine (04:25):
Mm-Hmm.
Amanda (04:26):
I think some of that
comes from practice, but also
just, I don't know, sometimesit's instinct.
You're like, I am messing withthis so much.
Am I making it any better?
No, then it needs to just stopand breathe.
And sometimes that means I haveto put it away.
For quite a while there's aproject that I've been working
on.
This is actually where I met youguys.
This is this little project.
I shouldn't say little, it's anenormous project.
(04:47):
That's, I've been working onover a year and a half and it's
not, I'm not rushing it, butit's something that like, if
I'm, if I realize that I'mtwiddling with it too much, it
just needs to go away.
The same thing happens when I'mwriting my dissertation.
Like I will just be full force,cannot be stopped.
I will go, days on end, barelysleep, forget the world.
(05:07):
And then I will realize I justneed to take a break because
what I'm doing is no longeradding to it.
So and again, one thing leadsinto the next.
So it's if I can find a stoppingplace in a in one, piece of
work, say it's a painting, Ithen have a really awesome
springing off point for the nextpiece.
Like I can.
(05:28):
Okay, this is, I'm gonna callthis done, but I'm not done with
the idea, so I'm gonna try itagain on the next one.
Catherine (05:35):
I like that.
So do you find that you work inseries are they related or are
they not?
Amanda (05:41):
Loosely, yes, I would
say work in series like loosely.
It's easier if you're doingsomething like a painting
series, or it's even easierprintmaking series.
Then you can really play withvariations on a theme.
Catherine (05:55):
Why is it so much
easier to do that with
printmaking?
Amanda (05:58):
Because it lends itself
to multiples like, you're
literally making one, a mainmatrix that you can print many,
many times unless you're doing amonoprint, and I'm, talking
about etching or silkscreen orsomething like that, you make
the key print, and then you cando a ton of things like, print
it on different papers paintunderneath it, then put the
(06:18):
paint print on top of it, layerthe order in which you like, if
it's a, print that's gotmultiple colors you can alter
the sequence in which you'repainting, or printing them,
rather.
There's yeah, and you're stillbasically dealing with this same
core image, but you, thevarieties you can do with one
are endless, and that's, I thinkthat's one of the reasons that I
(06:41):
got really interested inprintmaking.
It's because with painting, it'sit feels too precious in a way
to do like the same thing likeover and over, although I will
say I'm writing my dissertationon Monet, so there's definitely
a place for that in painting,but yeah.
I would say like loosely, I tendto work in a series or there's a
(07:02):
general idea that I have andthen that kind of tapers in to
the new, something else, if thatmakes sense.
Ellyn (07:11):
I'm listening and I know,
from looking at your website and
whatnot that you also docommissioned work and those
kinds of projects.
How is that different from yourown creative process or is it
different?
Amanda (07:24):
I hate to say it
depends, but it depends.
So commissions are reallyinteresting in that you have a
really set, like a parameter,although there are definitely
people that have commissionedme.
They say literally, I don't carewhat the next thing is on your
easel.
I want it.
That has happened, https (07:42):
otter.
ai My other favorite, and hey,if you're ever going to
commission an artist to dosomething, if you want like the
best work, do this.
Say this is the space that Ihave.
These are a series of your worksthat I like.
Take that into mind or don't,but this is like the space I
(08:03):
want you to fill with your art.
Catherine (08:05):
Oh, I love that.
Ellyn (08:07):
would be great.
Amanda (08:08):
Yes, but it's also oh.
Self doubt creeps in becauseyou're like, Ooh, somebody
really is going to live withthis or, install this in a
public place.
So I really can't mess this up,but it also it's like freedom
can be a cut two ways, right?
Catherine (08:21):
Yeah.
Amanda (08:22):
I've also had the
complete opposite of that, where
somebody has seen a painting andthey essentially want me to
recreate it like in a differentcolor scheme.
Or I do a, when I first startedpainting, I've moved away from
this a little bit more, but.
I did a lot of figurative work,especially children, and people
(08:43):
would ask me all the time, Iwould love for you to make this
painting, but put my child'sface in it.
Ellyn (08:51):
Oh gosh.
Amanda (08:52):
Oh no, it, it really
depends on the person that's
asking and the kind ofexpectations that they have.
How does that fit into theoverall I guess trajectory of
just or a series or like yourown kind of workflow.
I think that was the originalquestion and I think, it's
(09:13):
sometimes great to have a sideproject.
Ellyn (09:15):
Ah,
Amanda (09:16):
so you can get a little
bit of distance from kind of
like the main thrust of the workyou're doing, if that makes
sense.
So if you're working on some bigseries, it's nice to have a
little bit of a side projectthat doesn't quite have the same
maybe momentum behind it so thatyou can get a break and you can
get fresh eyes on the thing thatyou're doing.
So How does it fit in and itdepends like if you're really
(09:40):
flowing with your, uh, anotherseries and somebody asks you to
stop and do this thing andthere's a really hard deadline
and that's kind of like, butthen I always remind myself that
it is such an incredibleprivilege to have somebody want
Something that I have made, sothat usually gets me over the
(10:00):
Slight frustration of having todeviate, some time or energy
away from the thing is that Ilike really keen to do, but, I
think all of it's just, sorewarding to have people
interested in your work fullstop, so it all works out.
Ellyn (10:17):
So I'm hearing you say,
though, that you often work on
more than one thing at a time.
Is that normal for you to havemultiple things going on?
Amanda (10:25):
Girl.
Yes, and I would love to saythat I am one of those people
that's yes, I only work on onething, and I work it to
completion, and then it's done,and then it's like this discrete
Project that I can put away orthe gallery can have or however,
as far as painting I, there's atleast eight to 10 going at once.
(10:49):
And I haven't even been paintingthat much lately.
I've been working on adissertation of which I have.
Three of my five chapters in, inon the go and, this week gets, I
know you as a fiber artist,which I'm not sure I would put
that label on myself by anymeans, but as far as just work
with textiles, I have at leastfour of those going.
(11:13):
And, okay, and my, I can'tbelieve I'm saying this, but I
taught myself how to knit.
Ellyn (11:18):
Wow.
Amanda (11:19):
I have that going on
too.
I always have something.
I always have something.
Yes.
And it's a terrible thing, butit's also a great thing because
it helps you.
I think again, they feed intoeach other and you get ideas for
things as you're doing otherthings.
And I keep a lot of notebooksand I'm sure I forget a lot of
things, but yeah, there's alwaysa ton..
Ellyn (11:42):
You have a record of what
you're doing.
Amanda (11:43):
Yeah, some evidence.
I wish I had I've seen like DaVinci's notebooks where he's
writing these ideas in and I'mjust like, man, I don't have
that level of detail, but it'smight be just like, like some
terrible little thumbnailsketch.
I'm like a couple of words, butit's enough to trigger me.
Or I've just got like lots oflots.
(12:03):
Of post it notes and art historybooks and patterns and
Pinterest.
Oh my gosh.
When Pinterest became a thing, Iwent to town.
Catherine (12:14):
I did too.
Pinterest is great forinspiration.
Ellyn (12:19):
I agree.
maybe this is a dumb question,because maybe this doesn't
happen to you, but do you everget stuck?
Do you ever get where you don'tknow what to work on, or you
don't know what to do next, orthere's always something going?
Amanda (12:32):
that is not a dumb
question at all.
Yes, I think we all get those.
blocks sometimes where it justfeels like nothing you're doing.
You don't really just feel likedoing anything.
You're like uh, everything I dosucks and I don't like it, or I
it's all of your projects are inwhat I call the butt phase,
Catherine (12:53):
Wait, explain more
about what that means.
Ellyn (12:55):
we need to hear that.
Amanda (12:56):
There comes a point in
every project that you start
with great enthusiasm, it isgoing, going, going, you're
excited, you've got yourmaterials, you've got your
inspiration pictures you,you're, you're, what do you call
it those dream boards, what doyou call those?
I don't have one, but do youknow what I mean?
Like there's inspiration quotesor whatever.
(13:17):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You've got all your materialsand everything's gathered and
you've gotten maybe like a thirdof the way into it.
And all of a sudden you hateeverything about it.
And you're just like this.
Why not?
What do I do?
That is the butt face.
You have to get through thepoint where.
It's become a little monotonous,and you're not really sure of
(13:39):
the outcome, or that you'regonna like the outcome.
that, that's the butt phase.
Ellyn (13:44):
So how do you get through
Amanda (13:46):
you just gotta plow
through it, man.
You just have to have faith inyourself, because on the other
side of that, even if you don'tlike the finished product, you
have always learned something.
Even if it's, I really don'tlike doing this, or I really
hated this or this color schemeis just not working for me.
And the great thing about, saywith fibers, it seems like you
(14:09):
can always reclaim thosematerials.
Painting, ha ha, you can reclaimcanvases, and I have done that
many times.
You can't reclaim the paint, butyou've always learned something,
Ellyn (14:22):
great.
Amanda (14:22):
I Promise I sound like
this guy.
Like just crazy optimist.
I'm not, but yeah, I get blockswhere everything's I, everything
seems like it's in the buttphase.
And then I just have to, youknow, go outside with my kids
for a while or like doom scrollor just watch movies or just not
think about it for a while.
Ellyn (14:40):
so talk about your kids.
They I'm sure they see youcreating and they see who you
are.
How do you think that'sinfluencing your kids and their
creativity?
Amanda (14:49):
A little bit they're
really little.
So I just had, I don't have twolittle boys.
One just turned two that well,two and four, and they both had
summer birthdays and it is now,still September.
So they're newly minted, stilltwo and four year olds.
So I haven't had a lot of mythings out working around them
(15:11):
just because they are extremelybusy and nothing would stay in
the spot that it stays.
He, they do see the fruits ofthat though.
For example they've got quiltsthat are very much in use around
the house.
Lots of like pillows and things.
Yeah.
Up in the house, we've got mypaintings, they're hanging I did
(15:32):
a, there's a project that I'vedone with my parents, my dad,
specifically, called PreciousRebels, where it is Swarovski
covered guitars.
We did a lot of those.
Ellyn (15:42):
wow.
Amanda (15:43):
Oh yeah, PreciousRebels.
com, go check it out.
Or you could probably even findit on YouTube, because they look
way cooler when they're moving.
But anyway, so we have like, I'mlooking over here.
There's five of them that arehanging up, like just off of the
playroom.
So there's, there's stuff aroundand it killed my soul slightly
(16:03):
that my four year old was notthat interested in coloring or
painting.
He, he's obsessed with trucks.
Like he said wheel before hesaid mama I
Ellyn (16:16):
That's funny.
Amanda (16:18):
think yeah.
wheel?
A wheel?
A wheel?
Yeah.
I'm like, save mommy! Wheel?
Okay, anything remotely round.
But now that he's getting alittle bit older and they're
introducing him to some of thesekind of projects in preschool
like, he, I think, sees howexcited I get when he brings
home a wheel.
His art.
And so now every day, Mommy, Imade art for you.
(16:40):
So I don't know.
It's still not his favoritething to do.
Sadly, he would much rather beoutside, playing in the dirt
with trucks, but we shall see.
And my two year old, my barelytwo year old we shall see you
with him, too.
He likes to scribble with thecrayons, and I will encourage
lots of that, but I don't knowhow, I don't know how it's gonna
(17:01):
affect them, or if they're gonnabe interested in that.
I don't know.
Hopefully, I really need tolike, hang out with one of my
kids and like, make things.
My gosh.
I hope so.
Ellyn (17:12):
That's the
Amanda (17:12):
But we'll see.
Ellyn (17:13):
I
Amanda (17:14):
Yes.
Man,
Ellyn (17:16):
had to have three to get
that creative kid.
Just saying.
Amanda (17:21):
I don't know, there's
enough like, stuff going on in
our house where we're makingthings.
Even my father, he is he's anengineer, so he we build.
Their Halloween costume and likehe builds things around the
house and he's got my older soninvolved in that.
So there's at least some sort ofcreative thing going on.
So it may not manifest itself inpainting, printing, he's
(17:42):
probably not going to startknitting.
But I think, I hope that wesparked those ideas in him that
he can make things.
Ellyn (17:49):
How was that?
It sounds like you were raisedby creative parents, maybe?
How was it for you as a child?
Were you knee deep in creativityeven when you were little?
Amanda (17:59):
yeah, pretty much.
And I don't think I realized itwas like creativity as such.
But, when I was little, my momhad a knitting business, so she
just was always doing crossstitch knitting.
My grandmother was a tailor.
And was always knitting and theywere always, so a lot of textile
(18:19):
stuff around, like a lot offibers.
And they were basically justdoing things that were
utilitarian.
They would knit us sweaterscause we were Canadian and it
was cold.
And my mom knit us blanketscause it was cold.
it Was, so it wasn't necessarilylike, I'm going to make this art
piece for whatever, but she dida lot of, Clothing and she would
(18:41):
sew the drapes and my dad likebuilt additions onto the house
and there was always like thingslike plans, things happening,
being made.
And then as I got older and Istarted painting, like I, my mom
got interested in painting too.
So she, that's what she doesnow.
She is getting, I think she'sphasing out her nursing career.
(19:04):
She was a nurse for, many moons.
And I, she still is, I shouldsay, but she's.
Phasing that out and really gotinto painting, hello.
There's lots of, there's lots ofit around and there's lots of,
encouragement and stuff.
And my dad loves to play theguitar and that's where the
guitar thing came into, and he'salready drafting blueprints for,
(19:25):
different buildings he's goingto put on the property.
Not that's a huge property, butall the dreams that he's gonna,
that he's gonna renovate thehouse and do all that.
Yeah, there's a lot of, oh, Ishould say this, my mom she
bakes a lot too.
She's got, she does theseinsanely elaborate cakes and
cookies.
Just, so yeah, just always, thatwas always going on around me.
(19:46):
But I'm not sure, nobody waslike a professional artist as
such.
And it wasn't like, we weregoing to galleries and stuff for
the weekend, but it was like anytime that, you'd sit down and
watch TV and, mom was knittingsomething, or I have a lot of
memories of sitting under mymom's feet while she was at the
sewing machine, so
Ellyn (20:05):
So it was modeled for
you.
Amanda (20:06):
definitely yes.
Ellyn (20:08):
So where do you create
now?
Tell us about your space orspaces.
Amanda (20:13):
My yeah, so there is a
studio space here at our house
that that's where I did the bulkof my painting.
I don't get to go out there verymuch right now because number
one, toddlers, like I don't getto like just peace out and go
out there and to my mom, like Isaid, has really started using
(20:35):
the studio quite a bit.
And I know when I'm working Idon't really love to be
disturbed.
So it's leave her alone.
We do our stuff.
I have some studio space that Iwill be getting at, hopefully,
any time now.
From the university, where I amworking on my PhD.
But in the meantime, there are,I've been doing quilting at like
(20:55):
the retreat center.
I do stuff, the evening just athome and in the room that the
common room here with my familylike I'll sit there with
procreate and draw or I will besitting here typing away on my
dissertation.
That's taken up a ton of time,too, as far as, like, why I'm
not in the studio, but fiddleaway with hand quilting, or
(21:16):
knitting, or coloring,
Catherine (21:17):
do you see yourself
as more of a messy maker, or are
you a tidy creator?
Amanda (21:21):
I want to say I'm
organized but I'm definitely
not.
My parents call me Messy Mandy.
That is I'm the tidiest oilpainter I know, to be fair.
And I know some oil paintersthat it can really go wild.
I can contain it to an extent.
But as far as the rest of, yeah,no, I spread out it's, I always
(21:43):
have I'm reminded here when I'veseen you guys at the retreat
center and I'm like, Nope, I'mjust going to be in my one
little designated spot anddespite my best efforts, every
single time I'm spread out overfour or five tables, but it's my
place that's I have to see it.
It's if out of sight, out ofmind, so it all needs to be out.
Catherine (22:04):
No, I think that's a,
I feel that's a natural part of
creating, for me at least.
So I get that.
How do you balance structure andspontaneity in what you do?
Amanda (22:14):
As far as let me just
make sure I understand the
question.
So structure and spontaneity asfar as, like, how, what does one
organize time?
Or how does one, strike thatbalance between those two
things, like in a piece of art?
Or Yes.
Catherine (22:32):
To both either.
Yeah, yes, to both.
Amanda (22:35):
Okay, fair enough.
I schedule time to bespontaneous, if that makes
sense.
Ellyn (22:43):
It does.
Amanda (22:44):
So I have, yeah, I
definitely have
responsibilities.
I have things I have to getdone.
So there, I do the things that Ihave to do the chores and, the
childcare, and if I've got.
Grading papers or if I've gotthat kind of thing, like I do
that and then I know on, thisday and that day, those are my
(23:05):
full throttle, make things day,or this is my three hours of
zone out, like make stuff.
And as far as I think in a pieceof art, it's, it's the same
philosophy.
Like I'm structuring it enoughthat it's.
There are spaces forspontaneity, but enough that I
(23:27):
can get, at the end of the day,something that I want.
If that makes sense.
I should probably reword that alittle bit better.
When I'm approaching a piece ofart, I think I would say it's
more there's like a controlledimprov part of it.
So with a painting, you startoff with a general idea, and you
start off with, My generaldrawing, but then within that,
(23:48):
go nuts, experiment with color,experiment with texture
experiment with brushwork,within, but within kind of the
scope of the frame that I've setfor myself.
And I think the same would betrue, yeah, and I think the same
would be true, too, even Withsay for example, like the quilts
that you have seen me do.
I start off with a pretty strongidea of what I want the overall
(24:14):
structure to be.
But then within that, I willplay.
I think if you allow yourself tohave too many variables, it gets
really overwhelming reallyquickly.
So if you focus on, say forquilting, if you give yourself
like a limited palette, You cango crazy with shape or the way
(24:37):
you're gonna do your blocks.
I think if you are gonna be veryinterested in the structure of
the blocks, then you can gounlimited with color.
I think you need to pick thething that you are willing to go
and have your intuition just gocrazy.
Just, you need to structureenough that you can go crazy and
(24:59):
just feel like at the end of theday you're going to have
something that's balanced.
Ellyn (25:02):
So does that change from
project to project or is it
usually color for you or usuallyshape?
Is it different with eachsituation?
Makes
Amanda (25:11):
I think it's different
with each situation, and I tend
to, I think, alternate thethings that I'm interested in
experimenting with, so I lovethe idea, we were talking
earlier about printmaking.
I love the idea of having thatinitial key block that you can
then Go crazy with the paper thecolor underneath the color of
(25:35):
the ink That's a really fun wayto feel really experimental
whereas I think if You know withpainting it's a little bit It's
a little bit harder to do thatbut I try to give myself a
general idea of this is thesubject of the painting and this
is the feel i'm going for butother than that like You Go.
(25:57):
Go crazy.
And it either works or itdoesn't.
But yeah, I think I try to varyup the things that I'm varying.
It's good exercise.
Ellyn (26:05):
Sure is.
That would stretch you, right?
Amanda (26:07):
I hope so.
Catherine (26:09):
We are actually
coming to the end of our time.
Is there anything else that youwant to share about your
creative process or how you orthat you want to share with
people about creativity?
Amanda (26:19):
Just don't be afraid of
it.
You can, if you're working intextiles or fibers, you can
always reclaim the materials.
If you're making paintings,everybody makes bad paintings.
Everybody makes bad painting,but like you have to get through
the bad ones to get to the goodones and please don't let that
stop you from trying things thatyou want to try, gather
(26:40):
inspiration gather support, getit.
I will say this.
I think one of the things that Ilove so much about the fiber
arts is the sense of community.
That doesn't happen in paintingthat I have found.
And I miss, I don't know, youraudience, who, what kind of
medium they're geared towards,but I would say if you have a
(27:00):
community of supportive artistsaround you, totally lean on
them.
Get ideas from them, share withthem, work with them it's
awesome.
But just in general, to not bescared to try things.
What's the worst that canhappen,
Catherine (27:14):
point.
Amanda (27:15):
That you didn't try.
That you have regrets.
So yeah, don't, and everybody'screative.
Everybody's creative.
Ellyn (27:22):
advice.
Catherine (27:23):
I love that.
Amanda (27:24):
Yeah, just trust
yourself.
Catherine (27:26):
I have one more
question for you.
You had mentioned that likesometimes self doubt creeps in.
What do you do?
How, what do you do when thathappens?
How do you get over that?
Amanda (27:36):
Oh, what do I do when
self doubt creeps in?
I remind myself of why I wasenthusiastic about the project
to start with, because I thinkself doubt can be crippling, and
it's a really hard thing toovercome, and even if, and this
is speaking of someone that'smade close to a thousand
(27:56):
paintings, and has written manypapers, and has You know, done
many artistic things.
I still don't feel like I'm areal artist in a lot of ways.
And I let that kind of get to mesometimes, but.
Then I remind myself of what itis that it drew me in the first
place, right?
(28:17):
What is it about this thing thatI can't quit doing?
And sometimes it's with thefiber arts I am obsessed with
these materials.
They are just beautiful.
They're, you can do so many coolthings with them with painting.
Painting is my first love.
It is.
my lifelong love.
It is something I can't stoplooking at even when I'm not
(28:38):
making it.
I'm studying it.
I want to know all of thethings.
But I, that's what I would sayis just remind yourself of what
it is that inspired you to startyour art, whatever it is in the
first place, because that is thesource.
Catherine (28:51):
so much, Amanda.
I really appreciate what youshared with us today.
I feel like I walked away withfeeling inspired.
Amanda (28:57):
Oh, that's so nice.
Okay.
Great.
Cause I'm just like, it isfunny.
I think when I had kids, I knewthat it was going to take me
away from making, I knew itwould.
And it's been hard, I think, toget myself back into the idea
of, yes, you are a creative,you're a creative person that
has done amazing things and youhave these, talents that you can
(29:19):
use.
It's been nice to get to revisitthat and tap back into it too
and to remind myself of who Iam.
So this is I'm really happy thatyou interviewed me too.
I'm glad you're inspired.
I think it's really interestingyou're asking about this,
because it's just I hit that sohard the other day with writing
my dissertation.
I'm just like, what are youdoing?
(29:41):
Ah, but then
Catherine (29:42):
I think it's
something that's so common and
it comes up so much in academia,but also in the art world, like
that idea of imposter syndromethat somehow I ended up here by
accident and I don't reallybelong and nobody else and
everybody knows that I don'tbelong or I'm hiding it really
well, but I think we have to, Ialways tell my students when
they start saying, I don'tbelong here.
I'm like, you have to name it.
(30:03):
You have to say I am feelinglike an imposter, but that is
not true.
And I think we have, we can dothat in our creative worlds in
the same way and to recognizethat just because I'm feeling
that does not make it true.
Amanda (30:16):
yeah.
And I think there's somethinglike incredibly freeing about
knowing that other people feellike that
Catherine (30:25):
Oh, it's so
important.
Yes.
Yeah.
Ellyn (30:29):
Absolutely.
I can't wait.
I can't wait to see what elseyou come up with and where all
of this leads you going forward.
It's really fun to watch.
It'll be great.
Catherine (30:39):
right.
Amanda (30:40):
thank you guys for
having me do this.
I hope it helps somebody.
I hope, I'm glad to hear itinspired you guys,
Ellyn (30:46):
Absolutely did.
Amanda (30:47):
bit,
Ellyn (30:48):
Thanks for making the
time.
Thanks for taking time to talkwith us and share and explore
and you've given me a lot tothink about and I'm sure a lot
of people feel the same way.